From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 05:08:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA08122 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 05:08:13 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA08116 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 05:08:11 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id OAA19201 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:08:41 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07183; Sun, 1 Jan 95 14:08:56 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501011308.AA07183@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Problem with sio ... To: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:08:55 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1245 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just upgraded my main machine (keltia) to 2.1-current and each time I send something by UUCP (taylor, "i" protocol, bidirectionnal) I get that in /var/log/messages : Dec 31 21:35:45 keltia kernel: sio0: 304 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 1738) Dec 31 21:35:48 keltia kernel: sio0: 570 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 2308) Dec 31 21:35:50 keltia kernel: sio0: 506 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 2814) Dec 31 22:50:53 keltia login: login on tty00 as renux Dec 31 22:51:02 keltia kernel: sio0: 2143 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 4957) Dec 31 23:07:04 keltia login: login on tty00 as fasterix Jan 1 03:35:12 keltia login: login on tty00 as renux Jan 1 12:40:39 keltia kernel: sio0: 688 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 5645) I have that in /etc/rc.serial : /bin/stty -f /dev/cuaia0 38400 crtscts /bin/stty -f /dev/cuala0 38400 crtscts /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyi00 38400 crtscts hupcl /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyl00 38400 crtscts hupcl How can I avoid the messages ? -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 05:14:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA08221 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 05:14:22 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA08213 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 05:14:20 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id OAA19205 ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:14:50 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07194; Sun, 1 Jan 95 14:15:05 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501011315.AA07194@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: perl 5? To: root@io.cts.com (Morgan Davis) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:15:04 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501010405.UAA11484@io.cts.com> from "Morgan Davis" at Dec 31, 94 08:05:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1036 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Is there a reason why perl 5.0 is not included in FBSD? 5.0 was > release some months ago. If not, is there a schedule for having it > included into subsequent releases? It was decided at the time not to include perl 5 but perl 4 because perl 5 was still a beta and the vast majority of users know perl 4. > If it's a question of time and a someone to ensure the port, I may be > interested in doing it. I installed it for SCO a few months ago > without much pain. FBSD will likely be a piece of cake. Perl 5 is ./Configure; make in 2.1. 64 [14:10] roberto@keltia:FreeBSD/CTM> perl5.000 -v This is perl, version 5.000 Copyright 1987-1994, Larry Wall Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5.0 source kit. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 06:24:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA09165 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 06:24:49 -0800 Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA09157 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 06:24:47 -0800 Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R2.01/dg-rtp-v02) id AA29359; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 09:24:03 -0500 Received: (rivers@localhost) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.9/8.6.5) id HAA06570 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:59:41 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:59:41 -0500 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199501011259.HAA06570@ponds.UUCP> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: mailing list help? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Can someone point me to the commands/mail/whatever to alter my mailing address on the lists. (I've lost whatever I had saved about majordomo.) My primary UUCP connection is going down and I need to reroute my address. - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 07:07:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA09896 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:07:20 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09888 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:07:13 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id KAA11828; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 10:04:53 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 10:04:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: rdump is slow To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501010722.XAA24011@kithrup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 31 Dec 1994, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > Has anybody sat down and tried to figure out why? > > (rdump is taking about six hours to dump <700MBytes across an ethernet; > doing about the same amount, spread over different filesystems, takes about > 30-45 minutes locally, to the same tape drive.) > > It could be due to the ethernet, I suppose, but... I think it unlikely. > > Any comments? > > Sean. rdump from 1.1.5.1 to sunos 4.1.3 over the local ethernet works fine. rdump'ed 84 MB (?? per df output, dump indicates 45 MB on 8mm 5 GB cartridge tape--anyone know why ??) in 5 minutes. i will try 2.0R this week. here's sample output: Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/sd0e 225202 83804 118877 41% /usr DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Fri Dec 30 07:56:04 1994 DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch DUMP: Dumping /dev/rsd0e (/usr) to /dev/nrst9 on host windsurf DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files] DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories] DUMP: estimated 92044 tape blocks on 0.01 tape(s). DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [directories] DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [regular files] DUMP: 95.28% done, finished in 0:00 DUMP: DUMP: 92017 tape blocks on 1 volumes(s) DUMP: DUMP IS DONE DUMP: level 0 dump on Fri Dec 30 07:56:04 1994 DUMP: Closing /dev/nrst9 DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Fri Dec 30 08:01:34 1994 DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch DUMP: Dumping /dev/rsd0f (/home) to /dev/nrst9 on host windsurf DUMP: Closing /dev/nrst9 Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 07:14:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA09993 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:14:23 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09984 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:14:19 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id KAA11851; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 10:11:56 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 10:11:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: mailing list help? To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501011259.HAA06570@ponds.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Jan 1995, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > Can someone point me to the commands/mail/whatever to alter > my mailing address on the lists. (I've lost whatever I had > saved about majordomo.) majordomo is not set up to allow you to change your address in one operation, sorry. instead, unsubscribe the old address using mail send from the old address. subscribe the new address using mail sent from the new address. is the originating address and the subscription address do not match majrodomo WILL NOT subscribe you, but rather generate a subscription approval request for the postmaster.....he doesnt need anymore of those, i'm sure. ;^) Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 07:35:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA10579 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:35:52 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA10573 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:35:41 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA20306; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 02:31:14 +1100 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 02:31:14 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501011531.CAA20306@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Subject: Re: Problem with sio ... Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I just upgraded my main machine (keltia) to 2.1-current and each time I send >something by UUCP (taylor, "i" protocol, bidirectionnal) I get that in >/var/log/messages : >Dec 31 21:35:45 keltia kernel: sio0: 304 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 1738) >Dec 31 21:35:48 keltia kernel: sio0: 570 more tty-level buffer overflows (total 2308) >... >I have that in /etc/rc.serial : > /bin/stty -f /dev/cuaia0 38400 crtscts > /bin/stty -f /dev/cuala0 38400 crtscts > /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyi00 38400 crtscts hupcl > /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyl00 38400 crtscts hupcl >How can I avoid the messages ? Increase TTYHOG in sys/tty.h, or maybe increase some of the ugly 512's in kern/tty.c. It would be interesting to know exactly why the overruns occur. They probably didn't occur in 2.0 because TTYHOG was not honored. They probably didn't occur in 1.1.x because TTYHOG was twice as large. The `rts' part of crtscts doesn't work in 2.0. This only matters if the modem supports output (from it) flow control, and anyway you want all buffers to be large enough so that rts flow control is never invoked. What size buffer does uccp use for reading? It has to be smaller than TTYHOG for blocking reads, enough so that (TTYHOG - buffer_size) can hold all the input that arrives while uucp is not running. This may be impossible if TTYHOG is too small :-]. The protocol window size only affects the problem indirectly. If the window is smaller than TTYHOG, then the sender won't be able to overrun the tty buffer. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 09:01:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA12059 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 09:01:19 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12053 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 09:01:17 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id SAA19843 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:01:47 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07708; Sun, 1 Jan 95 18:02:01 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501011702.AA07708@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Problem compiling current kernel (1st jan) To: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:02:01 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 3856 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Kernel ctm#243 sup from yesterday I think (on ref). cc -c -pipe -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -DKELTIA243 -DI486_CPU -DOPEN_MAX=128 -DCHILD_MAX=128 -DSYSVMSG -DSYSVSEM -DSYSVSHM -DTEST_LABELLING -DDISKSLICE -DDUMMY_NOPS -DAUTO_EOI_2 -DAUTO_EOI_1 -DARP_PROXYALL -DIPFIREWALL_VERBOSE -DIPFIREWALL -DSCSI_2_DEF -DNCONS=8 -DUCONSOLE -DCOMPAT_43 -DMFS -DLFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 ../../i386/isa/bt742a.c ./machine/cpufunc.h: In function `inbc': ./machine/cpufunc.h:125: inconsistent operand constraints in an `asm' ./machine/cpufunc.h: In function `outbc': ./machine/cpufunc.h:132: inconsistent operand constraints in an `asm' *** Error code 1 Stop. I don't understand why this happen now. I've built kernel on 29, 30 and 31 dec without any problem. Of course this happens when I *must* change my Ethernet card and rebuild a kernel for the new one... kernel config file : # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.11 1994/11/08 07:39:26 jkh Exp $ # machine "i386" cpu "I486_CPU" ident "KELTIA243" maxusers 16 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS options LFS options MFS options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options UCONSOLE #X Console support options "NCONS=8" #4 virtual consoles options "SCSI_2_DEF" #hack for the mp1624 options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about # dropped packets options ARP_PROXYALL # Experimental options options "AUTO_EOI_1" options "AUTO_EOI_2" options "DUMMY_NOPS" options DISKSLICE # disk slices by bde options "TEST_LABELLING" # options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "CHILD_MAX=128" options "OPEN_MAX=128" config kernel root on sd0 swap on sd0 and sd1 dumps on sd0 controller isa0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr controller scbus0 device sd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows device st0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr device snd2 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 3 vector sbintr device snd1 at isa? port 0x388 pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 1 pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device pty 24 pseudo-device speaker pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) pseudo-device disc #Discard device -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 09:11:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA12414 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 09:11:52 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12387 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 09:11:48 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id SAA19870 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:12:14 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07753; Sun, 1 Jan 95 18:12:28 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501011712.AA07753@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Problem compiling current kernel (1st jan) To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:12:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501011702.AA07708@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier ROBERT" at Jan 1, 95 06:02:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1138 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Kernel ctm#243 sup from yesterday I think (on ref). > > cc -c -pipe -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -DKELTIA243 -DI486_CPU -DOPEN_MAX=128 -DCHILD_MAX=128 -DSYSVMSG -DSYSVSEM -DSYSVSHM -DTEST_LABELLING -DDISKSLICE -DDUMMY_NOPS -DAUTO_EOI_2 -DAUTO_EOI_1 -DARP_PROXYALL -DIPFI> REWALL_VERBOSE -DIPFIREWALL -DSCSI_2_DEF -DNCONS=8 -DUCONSOLE -DCOMPAT_43 -DMFS -DLFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 ../../i386/isa/bt742a.c > ./machine/cpufunc.h: In function `inbc': > ./machine/cpufunc.h:125: inconsistent operand constraints in an `asm' > ./machine/cpufunc.h: In function `outbc': > ./machine/cpufunc.h:132: inconsistent operand constraints in an `asm' > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. I've found why : I have redefined COPTFLAGS in my /etc/make.conf file in order to have a -pipe and forget to put the -O. That's weird, the kernel should compile without -O... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 10:00:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA13692 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 10:00:04 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA13676 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 09:59:59 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA22724; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 04:55:04 +1100 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 04:55:04 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501011755.EAA22724@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Subject: Re: Problem compiling current kernel (1st jan) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> cc -c -pipe -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -DKELTIA243 -DI486_CPU -DOPEN_MAX=128 -DCHILD_MAX=128 -DSYSVMSG -DSYSVSEM -DSYSVSHM -DTEST_LABELLING -DDISKSLICE -DDUMMY_NOPS -DAUTO_EOI_2 -DAUTO_EOI_1 -DARP_PROXYALL -DIPFI> REWALL_VERBOSE -DIPFIREWALL -DSCSI_2_DEF -DNCONS=8 -DUCONSOLE -DCOMPAT_43 -DMFS -DLFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 ../../i386/isa/bt742a.c >> ./machine/cpufunc.h: In function `inbc': >> ./machine/cpufunc.h:125: inconsistent operand constraints in an `asm' >>... >I've found why : I have redefined COPTFLAGS in my /etc/make.conf file in order to >have a -pipe and forget to put the -O. >That's weird, the kernel should compile without -O... It never has in FreeBSD :-]. There is another problem with asms in npx.c. The problem with inbc() and outbc() is that the "i" (immediate mode) constraint probably isn't valid for args in inline functions. The args are constant literals before the call, but strictly speaking, function args are never constant literals. inb() and outb() are already ugly macros instead of inline functions to avoid the same problem with __builtin_constant_p(). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 11:36:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA16054 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 11:36:02 -0800 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA16048 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 11:36:00 -0800 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA08328; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:35:41 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:35:41 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9501011935.AA08328@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Cc: FreeBSD mailing-list Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/gdb/bfd sysdep.h In-Reply-To: <199501011139.DAA06394@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> References: <9501010147.AA20820@login.dknet.dk> <199501011139.DAA06394@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < I guess I might be entirely missing the rim and the backboard here, > but is it possible to do it like the ports, i.e., just use gmake for > GNU stuff? Is it worth all the trouble to convert everything to > bmake? Yes. In particular, it is worth al the trouble for ``core'' programs to be completely integrated with our build system. For most programs, this is trivial: 1) Read GNU's Makefile.in 2) Write a set of pmake Makefiles that are one-tenth the size 3) Type make cleandir && make depend all install 4) Type make cleandir && make obj depend all install 5) Import original sources 6) Check out imported sources 7) Delete inapplicable files 8) Splat port that survived (1)-(4) onto the work directory 9) cvs update <<<<< THIS STEP IS REALLY IMPORTANT 10) cvs commit For simple programs, this takes all of half an hour, most of which is spent examining the output of `configure' and writing the appropriate Makefiles. Even GCC, if it had been done right to begin with (sorry, Paul, I know you tried), could have been done this way. Upgrading then becomes the following EXTREMELY simple process: 1) cvs import new version 2) Type the cvs co -j command that cvs import suggests 3) Fix any conflicts (should be minimal) 4) Delete inapplicable files 5) Test make 6) cvs commit which, for a moderately complex program like xntpd only takes half an hour to perform. This procedure is made somewhat difficult by the presence of people like Julian Stacey who want all the source tree to be perfect all the time (which is impossible because of the time lag between (1) and (5)). > We probably want gmake in the base distrib anyway, there are too many > ports that need it. There are good arguments for including a POSIX-compliant `make' program and renaming make(1) to something else. This isn't one of them. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 13:34:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA19774 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 13:34:23 -0800 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19768 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 13:33:59 -0800 Received: from p0.uniserve.com (p0.uniserve.com [198.53.215.193]) by haven.uniserve.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA17972; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 12:21:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 12:21:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199501012021.MAA17972@haven.uniserve.com> X-Sender: tom@haven.uniserve.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Morgan Davis , hackers@freebsd.org From: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Subject: Re: perl 5? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 08:05 PM 12/31/94 -0800, Morgan Davis wrote: >If it's a question of time and a someone to ensure the port, I may be >interested in doing it. I installed it for SCO a few months ago >without much pain. FBSD will likely be a piece of cake. Someone beat you to it. Perl 5.000 comes with hints for FreeBSD so no porting is required. Just FTP and compile. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 14:39:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA20667 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:39:02 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20661 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:39:01 -0800 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14705 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 14:38:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199501012238.OAA14705@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA006519978; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 17:39:38 -0500 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: FreeBSD2.0 install problem To: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 17:39:38 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1369 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I tried to load FreeBSD2.0 again on the 486 that's giving me all the machine problems. The new symptom is the initial floppy loads up and makes the file system on my SCSI disk. (I'm running this on a 307 meg drive with a 200 meg dos partition. 20 meg's set for Dos and 20 for swap -- it's an 8mb machine.) The system tells me to reboot from hard disk -- all I get is a kernel load and immediate reboot w/o any warning messages or panic. Any suggestions? I'm using the 1.2 meg boot disk... I did try the 1.44 once. This is getting too strange. This disk and Adaptec 1452b ran fine on 1.1 (there's no other scsi disk except a CD and tape drive.) I'm hoping 2.0 gets rid of the 1.1.5.1 memory problems I have. If this doesn't work I'm going to try NetBSD 1.0 and then lock in to FreeBSD 1.1. (BTW -- Linux has similar problems to my FreeBSD box... on my wife's machine I get traps when compiling the 1.1.72 kernel... FreeBSD1.1.5 seems much more sensitive. I get the errors from sendmail bash, sh and just about everything. On Linux it looks like gcc's the main culpret. Bill Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2943 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 18:01:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA21803 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:01:12 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA21797 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:00:57 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA29579; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:57:03 +1100 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:57:03 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501020157.MAA29579@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Subject: Re: Problem with sio ... Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Taylor have up to 4096 packet size even in standard g-protocol, >my site use it. 'i' protocol use about 6K packet sizes. The packet size doesn't matter a lot (just like the window size). Only the read() size must be < TTYHOG. >What happens if we will use TTYHOG==8K to handle all possible cases? 1) It will be easier for one tty to consume must of the available clists (leaving only the minimum guaranteed of 512 bytes for other ttys) OR 2) we could increase the minimum to TTYHOG and waste a lot of memory. There would be no point in using clists then. 3) There would be a new case requiring 16K. :-) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 23:20:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA22528 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:20:47 -0800 Received: from europa.com (root@ratcliff.europa.com [199.2.194.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA22522 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:20:44 -0800 Received: by europa.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.15) id ; Sun, 1 Jan 95 17:53 GMT Message-Id: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 95 23:20 GMT From: timb@europa.com (Tim Bach) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone out there know how i can detect carrier loss with mgetty? Or know where i can find a idle user timout(For modem users). ?? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 23:21:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA22572 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:21:39 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA22561 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:21:37 -0800 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA26638 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 15:54:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199501012354.PAA26638@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA007384559; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:55:59 -0500 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: Re: FreeBSD2.0 install problem To: pechter@halley.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (william pechter ILEX) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:55:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199501012238.OAA14705@wcarchive.cdrom.com> from "william pechter ILEX" at Jan 1, 95 05:39:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 467 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I tried to load FreeBSD2.0 again on the 486 that's giving me all the > machine problems. BTW -- I'm using the adaptec translation of 64 sectors and 32 heads as per the installation program. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2943 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 23:21:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA22565 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:21:37 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA22557 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:21:35 -0800 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA17284 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 21:43:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199501020543.VAA17284@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA008305488; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 00:44:48 -0500 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: FreeBSD install problem To: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 00:44:48 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 742 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well folks... I loaded NetBSD 1.0 and was amazed to find I don't get any sig 11's and it seems to install without problems. My question is -- what else can I do to help narrow down the problems I'm having with FreeBSD 1.1.5 and FreeBSD 2.0? 2.0 either 1 -- spontaneously reboots after install when it's loading /kernel 2 -- halts with a panic I tried the newer floppies off the 12/4 distribution with no change. I'll try the snapshot floppies shortly. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2943 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 23:23:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA22632 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:23:26 -0800 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA22622 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:23:21 -0800 Received: by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de id <43124>; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 00:48:42 +0100 From: Julian H Stacey To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 386BSD CD-ROM - A review. Cc: n1epo4tl@ibmmail.com Message-Id: <95Jan2.004842met.43124@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 00:48:29 +0100 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD Hackers, A friend (n1epo4tl@ibmmail.com) loaned me the Dr Dobbs 386BSD Rel. 1.0 CD-ROM. The friend who loaned it to him paid an amazing 200 German Marks (DM) for it ! ( ~1.5 DM = $1 US). It seems likely many people won't bother to look at it on grounds of price, if nothing else, unless much cheaper elsewhere, so I append below a review, those uninterested please skip :-) Cover claims: It has src, bin, anotations, articles. It claims support for Adaptec 154x & Mitsumi, ISA, EISA, VLB. No mention of A-174x, Bustec, PCI, or which of 4.4/4.3 base was used. It has X11R5 (Huh ! old !), C++ (no version. stated on cover), WAIS, Mosaic, Gopher. It has an install proc that can start from MS-Windows, the CD for installation must be local (not via a net). RELEASE.TXT on CD makes mention of `PCI/VESA bus', but that file suffers serious bit rot, so I wouldn't trust it (scattered ^M, several ^Z, numerous lines broken & half repeated, tell one, this file was not last edited by a Unix person happily working a unix editor; this cd-rom file is dos-damaged ;-) RELEASE.TXT also says: `In addition, no work from the incomplete 4.4 Lite was include in this release' CD has a more extensive colour printed CD-box-enclosed-booklet than FreeBSD. As usual, Bill J. keeps his email adr. a secret, the cd offers sbarnes@mfi.com for installation help. The legal stuff regarding rights to copy etc (liner page 13, para 1): - Hard to understand, seems to be effectively: do not keep copies if you do not keep CD. - Reading it here in Germany it claims (in English) to require California Law. I don't know how German Law views this. - All the printed contract clause are invalid in England, as test case (v. National Car Parks) ruling established that contract clauses hidden from view till after payment are void (which is why U turns were installed some years back on inbound car queues in front of NCP ticket machines, but after sign boards with contract exclusions). (CD Clauses are in liner book, inside CD box, in sealed cellophane vendor wrapper). Stuart tore the cellophane wrapper off, but I guess there was nothing printed on it. - A quick look on CD: /COPYRGHT.TXT: ------ * 5. Non-commercial distribution of the complete source and/or binary * release at no charge to the user (such as from an official Internet * archive site) is permitted. * 6. Commercial distribution and sale of the complete source and/or binary * release on any media, including that of floppies, tape, or CD-ROM, or * through a per-charge download such as that of a BBS, is not permitted * without specific prior written permission. * 7. Non-commercial and/or commercial distribution of an incomplete, * altered, or otherwise modified source and/or binary release is not * permitted. * 8. Non-commercial and/or commercial incorporation and distribution of * any components, programs, files, and other modules derived from the * source and/or binary release is not permitted without specific prior * written permission, except where stated by the author as in the * copyright disclaimerright disclaimer of the source code component, progr am, file, or * other module in question. ------ Synopsis: Much harder to use legally, compared with FreeBSD. CD Sales Tel.: +1 415 655 4190 CD Content: I have v. little time to look at the CD content, & doubt I ever will, The 600 M CD will probably fit on a 525M tape with tar cz, (cycling round here on snow, with a 200 DM CD in the pocket is risky). If any people with freefall logins _really_ want to look at the CD, mail me, when I'm next on line, I'll mount the CD, ping you, & you can have a browse over the internet (I'm only dial up slip connected, so not reachable most of time). I did try: cd /cdrom/bin ; ./ls -l it worked ! /usr/bin/file /bin/ls ./ls /bin/ls: FreeBSD/i386 demand paged executable ./ls: demand paged executable cd ../usr/bin ; ./file ./file /usr/bin/file ./file: ./file: type belong =65538 - pre SR9.5 invalid ./file: type belong =65539 - post SR9.5 invalid ./file: type beshort 2 - object archive invalid /usr/bin/file: data Conclusion: I'll stick to FreeBSD (of course!) :-) Disclaimer: I have no connection with Bill J, or DDJ. I run FreeBSD-current on my I-486, & NetBSD-current on my NSC-32532. PS I'm running behind on all mail I won't see any response for some while. --- Julian Stacey From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 1 23:26:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA22778 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:26:27 -0800 Received: from reggae.ncren.net (reggae.ncren.net [128.109.131.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA22770 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 23:26:24 -0800 Received: from ponds.UUCP by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA17207; Sun, 1 Jan 95 22:08:35 -0500 Received: (rivers@localhost) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.9/8.6.5) id UAA07945; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 20:55:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 20:55:59 -0500 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199501020155.UAA07945@ponds.UUCP> To: freebsd-bugs@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: More on compress -b 12 problems. Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk My previous mail seems to have bounced - or, it appears that way from this end. Anyway, apologies if you've already seen this. However; my previous fix for compress(1) isn't adequate. I'm still seeing botched compresses when the -b 12 option is used. In fact, I have a uuencoded file here that will demonstrate the problem. If you uudecode this, to get "test_file" - execute the following: mv test_file test_file.orig cp test_file.orig test_file compress -b 12 test_file uncompress test_file cmp test_file test_file.orig The uncompressed file and original file will differ. The location of the difference is dependent on my original fix. Without my fix, you get: test_file test_file.orig differ: char 9173, line 234 with my fix, you get: test_file test_file.orig differ: char 10499, line 264 thus, I suspect another use of BITS instead of maxbits in zwrite(), or some similar problem - but it's not immediately obvious to me (possibly in zopen.c:output() ) - Dave Rivers - begin 644 test_file M(R$@6QA;B!A;F0@4VAE<&%R9"P@:70G6]N92!E=F5R(&%T=&5M M<'1E9"!T;R!F:7)G=7)E(&]U="!W:&\@"G=R;W1E('=H:6-H('!A6]U(&-A;64@=&\@;64@;VX@82!P86EN=&5D(&1E2DZ M($D@9V]T(&UY('!I8W1U2!D M;RXN+B(@971C+BXN"@I)(&=O(&)A8VL@86YD(&9O2!A;F0@9FEG=7)E(&ET(&]U="X*"BU387-H80HM+0I>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EX*5W)I=&4@;64@82!P;V5M('-H92!S M86ED"F$@;&]V92!P;V5M"D%L;"!P;V5MB(L("`B268@1&]G2!R96QE87-E9"!#1"!O9B`B0F]O;F4@1&]E2!*87)R M971T"@I4:&%T)W,@2!T=V\@<&5N;FEE7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>"E=R:71E(&UE(&$@<&]E;2!S:&4@6QA;B=S(%=O4)L86ER*2!W2!G;R!B86-K('1O(").;W)T:"!#;W5N M=')Y($)L=65S(B!O7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7@I76UO M;F0@0V%R=F5R"B,A(')N97=S(#DW,`I.97=S9W)O=7!S.B!R96,N;75S:6,N M9'EL86X*4&%T:#H@<&]N9',N=75C<"%D9RUR='`A;F5W2!#;VQU;6)I82!W87,@<&QA;FYI;F<@=&\@7!T:6]N"D1A=&4Z(#(V($1E8R`Q.3DT(#$S.C$U.C,R("TP-3`P"D]R9V%N M:7IA=&EO;CH@06UE7!T:6]N('!R;V=R86T_"E!A=F4*(R$@"%N;W0M9F]R+6UA:6P*1G)O;3H@F%T:6]N.B!,;WEA;"!/2YC;VT^"DY.5%`M4&]S M=&EN9RU(;W-T.B!P86YI>#,N<&%N:7@N8V]M"@I"86QL860@:6X@4&QA:6X@ M1"!G:79E7,@8F4@87-S=7)E9"`@*B`@("!S=&5R;D!D M97-H872!S<&5C=&%C=6QA2U4;SH@;F5I;&TS-30Q,4!A;VPN8V]M("A.96EL33,U-#$Q*0H*5V5B97)M M86X@87!P96%R960@;VX@3&%T92!.:6=H="!W:71H($1A=FED($QE='1E6]U/R(@;W(@F%T:6]N.B!!;65R:6-A($]N M;&EN92P@26YC+B`H,2TX,#`M.#(W+38S-C0I"DQI;F5S.B`R,0I396YD97(Z M(')O;W1`;F5W2YC;VT^"E)E<&QY+51O M.B!J9G)Y8FQA:7)`86]L+F-O;2`H2F9R>4)L86ER*0H*2&5Y(&)U8BP@:68@ M>6]U)W)E(&=O;FYA('1A;&L@=&AI6]U)V0@ M8F5T=&5R(&=E="!Y;W5R"F9A8W1S('-T2!L:69E=&EM90IA8VAI979E M;65N="!A=V%R9"XN+G=H870@=V]U;&0@0F]B('=I;B!A;B!E;6UY(&9O2!*86-K M"DYI8VAO;'-O;B$@4W!R:6YG2P@;F]T(&%N(&]L9"!F;VQK('-O;F65D(&)O8B!H:7,@(FYE=R(@4)N"BD*3F5W4)L86ER*0H*3&5T M(&UE(&IU',T86QL+FYL(6IO8V]W>6QO:&%N=T!O M2!O<'1I;VX_"D1I3DT(&-`.C4Q*0I/(#,Q"@I*86XM4&EE=&5R($-OFEP(&AE6]U7EY>7EY>7EX*/EEO=2!M:7-S<&5L;&5D('`M2!N871UFrom mcnc!ncren.net!MAILER-DAEMON Sat Dec 31 16:01:25 1994 Received: from mcnc.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.9/8.6.5) with UUCP id QAA26323 for rivers; Sat, 31 Dec 1994 16:01:09 -0500 Received: by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA02489; Sat, 31 Dec 94 15:38:12 -0500 Date: Sat, 31 Dec 94 15:38:12 -0500 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown Message-Id: <9412312038.AA02489@reggae.ncren.net> To: ponds!rivers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" Status: R ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Description: Session Transcript bad system name: freebsd-bugs uux failed ( 68 ) 554 freebsd-bugs!freefall.cdrom.com... 550 Host unknown (No such domain (authoritative answer)) ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Description: Recipients of this Delivery Bounced, cannot deliver: freebsd-bugs!freefall.cdrom.com Sent successfully: ponds!rivers ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Returned Content Received: from ponds.UUCP by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA02468; Sat, 31 Dec 94 15:37:53 -0500 Received: (rivers@localhost) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.9/8.6.5) id PAA25565; Sat, 31 Dec 1994 15:13:05 -0500 Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 15:13:05 -0500 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199412312013.PAA25565@ponds.UUCP> To: freefall.cdrom.com@freebsd-bugs, freefall.cdrom.com@freebsd-hackers Subject: More on compress(1) bugs... still not working... My previous mail seems to have bounced - or, it appears that way from this end. Anyway, apologies if you've already seen this. However; my previous fix for compress(1) isn't adequate. I'm still seeing botched compresses when the -b 12 option is used. In fact, I have a uuencoded file here that will demonstrate the problem. If you uudecode this, to get "test_file" - execute the following: mv test_file test_file.orig cp test_file.orig test_file compress -b 12 test_file uncompress test_file cmp test_file test_file.orig The uncompressed file and original file will differ. The location of the difference is dependent on my original fix. Without my fix, you get: test_file test_file.orig differ: char 9173, line 234 with my fix, you get: test_file test_file.orig differ: char 10499, line 264 thus, I suspect another use of BITS instead of maxbits in zwrite(), or some similar problem - but it's not immediately obvious to me (possibly in zopen.c:output() ) - Dave Rivers - begin 644 test_file M(R$@6QA;B!A;F0@4VAE<&%R9"P@:70G6]N92!E=F5R(&%T=&5M M<'1E9"!T;R!F:7)G=7)E(&]U="!W:&\@"G=R;W1E('=H:6-H('!A6]U(&-A;64@=&\@;64@;VX@82!P86EN=&5D(&1E2DZ M($D@9V]T(&UY('!I8W1U2!D M;RXN+B(@971C+BXN"@I)(&=O(&)A8VL@86YD(&9O2!A;F0@9FEG=7)E(&ET(&]U="X*"BU387-H80HM+0I>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EX*5W)I=&4@;64@82!P;V5M('-H92!S M86ED"F$@;&]V92!P;V5M"D%L;"!P;V5MB(L("`B268@1&]G2!R96QE87-E9"!#1"!O9B`B0F]O;F4@1&]E2!*87)R M971T"@I4:&%T)W,@2!T=V\@<&5N;FEE7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>"E=R:71E(&UE(&$@<&]E;2!S:&4@6QA;B=S(%=O4)L86ER*2!W2!G;R!B86-K('1O(").;W)T:"!#;W5N M=')Y($)L=65S(B!O7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY> M7EY>7EY>7EY>7EY>7@I76UO M;F0@0V%R=F5R"B,A(')N97=S(#DW,`I.97=S9W)O=7!S.B!R96,N;75S:6,N M9'EL86X*4&%T:#H@<&]N9',N=75C<"%D9RUR='`A;F5W2!#;VQU;6)I82!W87,@<&QA;FYI;F<@=&\@7!T:6]N"D1A=&4Z(#(V($1E8R`Q.3DT(#$S.C$U.C,R("TP-3`P"D]R9V%N M:7IA=&EO;CH@06UE7!T:6]N('!R;V=R86T_"E!A=F4*(R$@"%N;W0M9F]R+6UA:6P*1G)O;3H@F%T:6]N.B!,;WEA;"!/2YC;VT^"DY.5%`M4&]S M=&EN9RU(;W-T.B!P86YI>#,N<&%N:7@N8V]M"@I"86QL860@:6X@4&QA:6X@ M1"!G:79E7,@8F4@87-S=7)E9"`@*B`@("!S=&5R;D!D M97-H872!S<&5C=&%C=6QA2U4;SH@;F5I;&TS-30Q,4!A;VPN8V]M("A.96EL33,U-#$Q*0H*5V5B97)M M86X@87!P96%R960@;VX@3&%T92!.:6=H="!W:71H($1A=FED($QE='1E6]U/R(@;W(@F%T:6]N.B!!;65R:6-A($]N M;&EN92P@26YC+B`H,2TX,#`M.#(W+38S-C0I"DQI;F5S.B`R,0I396YD97(Z M(')O;W1`;F5W2YC;VT^"E)E<&QY+51O M.B!J9G)Y8FQA:7)`86]L+F-O;2`H2F9R>4)L86ER*0H*2&5Y(&)U8BP@:68@ M>6]U)W)E(&=O;FYA('1A;&L@=&AI6]U)V0@ M8F5T=&5R(&=E="!Y;W5R"F9A8W1S('-T2!L:69E=&EM90IA8VAI979E M;65N="!A=V%R9"XN+G=H870@=V]U;&0@0F]B('=I;B!A;B!E;6UY(&9O2!*86-K M"DYI8VAO;'-O;B$@4W!R:6YG2P@;F]T(&%N(&]L9"!F;VQK('-O;F65D(&)O8B!H:7,@(FYE=R(@4)N"BD*3F5W4)L86ER*0H*3&5T M(&UE(&IU',T86QL+FYL(6IO8V]W>6QO:&%N=T!O M2!O<'1I;VX_"D1I3DT(&-`.C4Q*0I/(#,Q"@I*86XM4&EE=&5R($-OFEP(&AE6]U7EY>7EY>7EX*/EEO=2!M:7-S<&5L;&5D('`M2!N871U; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 00:39:14 -0800 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA24210; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:37:45 +0100 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199501020837.JAA24210@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: NIS stuff update To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Wankle Rotary Engine) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:37:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501010314.WAA02955@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Wankle Rotary Engine" at Dec 31, 94 10:14:29 pm Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 793 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Wankle Rotary Engine wrote: > - Teach yppasswdd how to handle FreeBSD's password database system. I have begun to write a yppasswdd some time ago, when I thought I had the time to finish it. Turned out I was wrong. Anyway, I used some of the routines from passwd and vipw; building the database is handled by makedbm (or yp_mkdb as you called it). > I don't suppose anybody knows how to export /etc/master.passwd without > the whole world being able to see it. You should not need /etc/master.password. YP should have its own database in /var/yp. The /etc/master.password should only regulate access to the server and not contain the user entries for the machines in the current domain. This was one thing I didn't like about the Linux YP implementation when I looked it a while ago. tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 01:24:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA25144 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 01:24:59 -0800 Received: from saul3.u.washington.edu (saul3.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA25138 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 01:24:57 -0800 Received: by saul3.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW94.10/UW-NDC Revision: 2.32 ) id AA25669; Mon, 2 Jan 95 01:24:44 -0800 X-Sender: spaz@saul3.u.washington.edu Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 01:24:44 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: FreeBSD hackerlist Subject: st.c src, anyone? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Folks; anybody have a pointer to a copy of the source for st? hell, even a bonary would be great...well maybe not...i dont have the 1.1.5 compattilbilty libs, so i better compile it myself for my 2.0 machine...so if anybody has a copy they could ship me, i would rewally appreciate it! thankyou! ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 01:43:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA25218 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 01:43:24 -0800 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA25212 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 01:43:16 -0800 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id EAA01587 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 04:41:13 -0500 From: Wankle Rotary Engine Message-Id: <199501020941.EAA01587@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: NIS stuff update To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 04:41:09 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 6223 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk They say this Thomas Gellekum person was kidding when he wrote: > Wankle Rotary Engine wrote: > > > - Teach yppasswdd how to handle FreeBSD's password database system. > > I have begun to write a yppasswdd some time ago, when I thought I > had the time to finish it. Turned out I was wrong. Anyway, I used > some of the routines from passwd and vipw; building the database is > handled by makedbm (or yp_mkdb as you called it). Converting yppasswdd turned out to be very simple once I took a look in /usr/src/usr.bin/passwd. This particular version fork()s off a child process to run a program to rebuild the NIS maps. I'm using a script for that for now. > > I don't suppose anybody knows how to export /etc/master.passwd without > > the whole world being able to see it. > > You should not need /etc/master.password. YP should have its own > database in /var/yp. The /etc/master.password should only regulate > access to the server and not contain the user entries for the > machines in the current domain. > > This was one thing I didn't like about the Linux YP implementation > when I looked it a while ago. > > tg > Actually, you do need to export /etc/master.passwd -- or at least a file with the same format. The secure password database doesn't just contain encrypted passwords: it contains password aging information and other assorted crap (some of which may or may not be implemented yet) which FreeBSD client machines would need to know about. The existing YP client functions in libc assume that the server they'll be talking to uses standard /etc/passwd-style maps, which means they have to be altered slightly in order for the additional information to be extracted from the maps. This is something I'll be looking at tomorrow, since I've done more than enough hacking today. :) But forgetting the format difference for the moment, there's still the matter of keeping the encrypted passwords away from prying eyes. The whole point of /etc/master.passwd and /etc/spwd.db is to have a secure password database that only the superuser can access so that you won't be vulnerable to 'Crack' attacks. What I want to do is allow FreeBSD machines to be configured as NIS clients while still only allowing the superuser to access encrypted passwords. Since sending my last message (yesterday :), I've discovered a half-assed way to do it: the NIS server can check the TCP ports from which requests originate. Requests from processes running as root will originate from privileged ports; requests from normal users will not. I just finished hacking ypserv such that it will return YP_YPERR if it receives a request to access master.passwd.* that does not come from a privileged port. This is far from perfect, but it's a) better than nothing, and b) reasonably effective when used in conjunction with address authentication (tcp wrappers). This raises another question: the ypserv code as hooks in it for libwrap.a from the tcp wrapper package. Would it be possible to include the tcp wrapper code with the next version of FreeBSD so that ypserv can be secure right out of the box, or should it be shipped insecure with a notice telling people how to add tcp wrapper support later? Anyway, here's yet another update. Stuff I've done: - Hammered on the db code in ypserv so that it properly emulates the behavior of the old GNU dbm routines. NOTE: the dbopen() man page is slightly incorrect!! The following code does not work: db = dbopen(dbname, O_RDWR|O_EXCL, PERM_SECURE, DB_HASH, &openinfo); (db->db_seq)(db, &key, &data, R_CURSOR); <-- returns EINVAL The R_CURSOR flag is *NOT* supported with using db->seq with the DB_HASH access method, but the man page leads one to believe it otherwise. (I would have *never* figured this out without the source to libc. :) This lead to some really silly workaround code. Bah. - Hacked ypserv to support ypxfr. - Hacked ypserv to refuse requests to access the master.passwd.* maps that do not originate from privileged ports. - Hacked ypserv to properly background itself like a good little daemon should. Added syslog/fprintf functions: syslog when running as daemon, print to stderr when running in debug more (with -debug flag). - Converted yppasswdd to use the pw_util.c and pw_copy.c routines already in the FreeBSD source tree (/usr/src/usr.bin/passwd and /usr/src/usr.sbin/vipw). - Successfully tested yppasswdd with yppasswd and ypserv. - Cleaned up ypxfr and converted it to use the db functions. - Successfully tested ypxfr with a SunOS NIS server. - Converted yppush to use db functions. - Moved everybody into appropriate places in the source tree and created BSD-style Makefiles. Here's the heirarchy I have so far: /usr/bin/yppasswd /usr/libexec/ypserv /usr/libexec/yppasswdd /usr/libexec/pwupdate (script used by yppasswdd) /usr/libexec/yppush /usr/libexec/ypxfr /usr/sbin/yp_mkdb /var/yp/Makefile /var/yp/mknetid (a shell script) Stuff I haven't yet done: - Hack libc/gen YP routines (_pw_breakout_yp() and probably others) to support master.passwd.* maps in addition to existing /etc/passwd-style maps. - Clean up a few compiler warnings in yppush. - Properly test yppush. (How the hell do I do that with only one FreeBSD machine?!) - Test yppasswdd a bit more. (Still not sure I got the conversion exactly right, even though it seems to work.) - Hack yppasswdd to allow the use of an alternate raw master.passwd file. (Thanks for reminding me. :) - Clean up the Makefiles. - Dump it all on Jordan's head. Wait, I'm forgetting something... There's still something left for me to do... Oh. Oh yeah: sleep. G'night. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul System Manager wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu Center for Telecommunications Research (212) 854-6020 Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 02:29:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA25870 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 02:29:04 -0800 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA25861 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 02:28:36 -0800 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA21151 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 2 Jan 1995 13:27:23 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA00246; Sun, 2 Jan 1994 13:19:42 +0300 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Tim Bach References: In-Reply-To: ; from Tim Bach at Sun, 1 Jan 95 23:20 GMT Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 2 Jan 1994 13:19:41 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.31 FreeBSD] From: "Andrew A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Lines: 11 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 438 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message Tim Bach writes: >Does anyone out there know how i can detect carrier loss with mgetty? Use TIOCMGET. -- Andrew A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 03:13:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA26216 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 03:13:04 -0800 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA26210 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 03:12:56 -0800 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA23824 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 2 Jan 1995 14:06:58 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA00346; Sun, 2 Jan 1994 14:02:01 +0300 To: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr References: <199501020157.MAA29579@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: <199501020157.MAA29579@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans at Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:57:03 +1100 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 2 Jan 1994 14:02:00 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.31 FreeBSD] From: "Andrew A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Problem with sio ... Lines: 32 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1258 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199501020157.MAA29579@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: >>Taylor have up to 4096 packet size even in standard g-protocol, >>my site use it. 'i' protocol use about 6K packet sizes. >The packet size doesn't matter a lot (just like the window size). >Only the read() size must be < TTYHOG. Taylor attempts to read MAX size first, then it utilize amount of bytes which is really readed and read rest of packet. >>What happens if we will use TTYHOG==8K to handle all possible cases? >1) It will be easier for one tty to consume must of the available >clists (leaving only the minimum guaranteed of 512 bytes for other >ttys) OR >2) we could increase the minimum to TTYHOG and waste a lot of memory. >There would be no point in using clists then. Hows about idea to change TTYHOG dinamycally for serial lines? >3) There would be a new case requiring 16K. :-) I don't see any serial protocols with block size > 8K. ZedZap protocol use 8K. -- Andrew A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 03:50:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA26634 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 03:50:52 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA26625 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 03:50:40 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA10631; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:47:56 +1100 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:47:56 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501021147.WAA10631@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Subject: Re: Problem with sio ... Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Taylor attempts to read MAX size first, then it utilize amount ^^^MIN? >of bytes which is really readed and read rest of packet. It shouldn't expect tty buffers to be infinite. In fact, it has code to support the POSIXish MAX_INPUT if MAX_INPUT is defined. However, it seems to use this only for the HAVE_BSD_TTY case, not for the HAVE_POSIX_TERMIOS case. >Hows about idea to change TTYHOG dinamycally for serial lines? There has to be some limit to stop unread input from consuming all memory. Note that TTYHOG is a hard limit. There is now a soft limit which becomes _the_ limit when there are no spare clists. >>3) There would be a new case requiring 16K. :-) >I don't see any serial protocols with block size > 8K. >ZedZap protocol use 8K. ppp seems to have a limit of 64K in theory and 16K in practice (enforced in pppd). if_ppp.c and if_sl.c adjust the tty buffer sizes to suit the mtu. The same could be done for the standard line discipline but it's harder to know the right size in advance. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 04:27:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA27381 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 04:27:24 -0800 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA27375 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 04:27:18 -0800 Received: from ole.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@ole.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.28.1]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA03875 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 13:26:53 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by ole.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA06305; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 13:26:51 +0100 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 13:26:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199501021226.NAA06305@ole.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: New adduser script MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk #!/bin/sh # This is a shell archive (produced by shar 3.49) # To extract the files from this archive, save it to a file, remove # everything above the "!/bin/sh" line above, and type "sh file_name". # # made 01/02/1995 12:16 UTC by wosch@ole # Source directory /tmp_amd/fiesta/export/all3/w/wosch/tmp/adduser # # existing files will NOT be overwritten unless -c is specified # # This shar contains: # length mode name # ------ ---------- ------------------------------------------ # 16306 -rwxr-xr-x adduser # # ============= adduser ============== if test -f 'adduser' -a X"$1" != X"-c"; then echo 'x - skipping adduser (File already exists)' else echo 'x - extracting adduser (Text)' sed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > 'adduser' && #!/usr/bin/perl # # (c) Copyright 1995 Wolfram Schneider. All rights reserved. # # Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without # modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions # are met: # 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright # notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. # 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright # notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the # documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. # 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software # must display the following acknowledgement: # This product includes software developed by Wolfram Schneider # 4. The name of the author may not be used to endorse or promote products # derived from this software without specific prior written permission # # THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR # IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES # OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. # IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, # INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT # NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, # DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY # THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT # (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF # THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. # # /usr/sbin/adduser - add new user(s) # # Bugs: sure (my english!) # Email: Wolfram Schneider # # $Id: adduser,v 1.17 1995/01/02 00:08:43 w Exp w $ # X sub variables { X $verbose = 1; X $batch = 0; # batch mode X $defaultpasswd = 0; X $dotdir = "/usr/share/skel"; X X if (1) { X $home = "/home"; X $shells = "/etc/shells"; X $passwd = "/etc/master.passwd"; X $group = "/etc/group"; X $pwd_mkdb = "pwd_mkdb -p"; X } else { X $home = "/home/w/tmp/adduser/home"; X $shells = "./shells"; X $passwd = "./master.passwd"; X $group = "./group"; X $pwd_mkdb = "pwd_mkdb -p -d ."; X } X X @path = ('/bin', '/usr/bin', '/usr/local/bin'); X @shellpref = ('bash', 'tcsh', 'ksh', 'csh', 'sh'); X $uid_start = 1000; # new users get this uid X $uid_end = 32000; X X # global variables X $username = ''; # $username{username} = uid X $uid = ''; # $uid{uid} = username X $pwgid = ''; # $pwgid{pwgid} = username; gid from passwd db X $groupname =''; # $groupname{groupname} = gid X $gid = ''; # $gid{gid} = groupname; gid form group db X $defaultshell = ''; X @passwd_backup = ''; } X # read shell database # See also: shells(5) sub shells_read { X local($s, @dummy); X open(S, $shells) || die "$shells:$!\n"; X while() { X if (/^[ \t]*\//) { X ($s, @dummy) = split; X if (-x $s) { X $shell{&basename($s)} = $s; X } else { X warn "Shell: $s not executable!\n"; X } X } X } } X # add new/local shells sub shells_add { X local($e,$dir,@list); X foreach $e (@shellpref) { X if (!$shell{$e}) { X foreach $dir (@path) { X if (-x "$dir/$e") { X push(@list, "$dir/$e") if X &confirm_yn("Found shell: $dir/$e. Add to $shells?", "yes"); X } X } X } X } X if ($#list >= 0) { X foreach $e (@list) { X $shell{&basename($e)} = $e; X #print "$e\n"; X } X &append_file($shells, @list); X } } X # choise your favourite shell sub shells_pref { X local($e,$i,$s); X X $i = 0; X while($i < $#shellpref) { X last if $shell{$shellpref[$i]}; X $i++; X } X $s = &confirm_list("Enter Your default shell:", 0, X $shellpref[$i], sort(keys %shell)); X print "Your default shell is: $s -> $shell{$s}\n" if $verbose; X $defaultshell = $s; } X # return default home partition sub home_partition { X local($h); X X $h = &confirm_list("Enter Your default HOME partition:", 1, $home, ""); X if (-e "$h") { X if (!(-d _ || -l $h)) { X warn "$h exist, but is it not a directory or symlink!\n"; X return &home_partition; X } X if (! -w _) { X warn "$h is not writable!\n"; X return &home_partition; X } X } else { X return &home_partition unless &mkdirhier($h); X } X X $home = $h; X return $h; } X # check for valid passwddb sub passwd_check { X print "Check $passwd\n" if $verbose > 0; X system("$pwd_mkdb $passwd"); X die "\nInvalid $passwd - cannot add any users!\n" if $?; } X # read /etc/passwd sub passwd_read { X local($un, $pw, $ui, $gi); X X open(P, "$passwd") || die "$passwd: $!\n"; X while(

) { X chop; X push(@passwd_backup, $_); X ($un, $pw, $ui, $gi) = (split(/:/, $_))[0..3]; X print "$un already exist with uid: $username{$un}!\n" X if $username{$un}; X $username{$un} = $ui; X print "User $un: uid $ui exist twice: $uid{$ui}\n" X if $uid{$ui} && $verbose; X $uid{$ui} = $un; X $pwgid{$gi} = $un; X } X close P; } X # read /etc/group sub group_read { X local($gn,$pw,$gi); X X open(G, "$group") || die "$group: $!\n"; X while() { X ($gn, $pw, $gi) = (split(/:/, $_))[0..2]; X warn "Groupname exist twice: $gn:$gi -> $gn:$groupname{$gn}\n" X if $groupname{$gn}; X $groupname{$gn} = $gi; X warn "Groupid exist twice: $gn:$gi -> $gid{$gi}:$gi\n" X if $gid{$gi}; X $gid{$gi} = $gn; X } X close G; } X # check gids /etc/passwd <-> /etc/group sub group_check { X local($e, $user, @list); X X foreach $e (keys %pwgid) { X if (!$gid{$e}) { X $user = $pwgid{$e}; X warn "Gid $e is defined in $passwd for user ``$user''\n"; X warn "but not in $group!\n"; X if ($groupname{$user}) { X warn < $groupname{$user}) for user ``$user'' in $passwd & $group are wrong. See $passwd ``$user:*:$username{$user}:$e'' See $group ``$user:*:$groupname{$user}'' EOF X } else { X push(@list, "$user:*:$e:$user") X if (&confirm_yn("Add group``$user'' gid $e to $group?", "y")); X } X } X } X &append_file($group, @list) if $#list >= 0; } X sub new_users { X local(@userlist) = @_; X local($name); X local($defaultname) = "a-z0-9"; X X print "\nOk, let's go.\n"; X print "Don't worry about mistakes. I ask You later for " . X "correct input.\n" if $verbose; X X while(1) { X $name = &confirm_list("Enter username", 1, $defaultname, ""); X if ($name !~ /^[a-z0-9]+$/) { X warn "Wrong username. " . X "Please use only lowercase characters or digits\n"; X } elsif ($username{$name}) { X warn "Username ``$name'' already exists!\n"; X } else { X last; X } X } X local($fullname); X while(($fullname = &confirm_list("Enter full name", 1, "", "")) =~ /:/) { X warn "``:'' is not allowed!\n"; X } X $fullname = $name unless $fullname; X local($sh) = &confirm_list("Enter shell", 0, $defaultshell, keys %shell); X $sh = $shell{$sh}; X local($u_id, $g_id) = &next_id($name); X print < $crash") || die "Sorry, give up\n"; X $j = join("\n", @passwd_backup); X $j =~ s/\n//; X print R $j . "\n"; X close R; X X system("$pwd_mkdb $crash"); X die "Sorry, give up\n" if $?; X die "Successfully restore $passwd. Exit.\n"; X } X # Add new group X &append_file($group, "$name:*:$g_id:$name") X unless $groupname{$name}; X X # update passwd/group variables X push(@passwd_backup, $new_entry); X $username{$name} = $u_id; X $uid{$u_id} = $name; X $pwgid{$g_id} = $name; X $groupname{$name} = $g_id; X $gid{$g_id} = $name; X X print "Added user ``$name''\n"; X local($a) = &confirm_yn("Change password", $defaultpasswd); X if (($a && $defaultpasswd) || (!$a && !$defaultpasswd)) { X while(1) { X system("passwd $name"); X last unless $?; X last unless X &confirm_yn("Passwd $name failed. Try again?", "yes"); X } X } X &home_create($name); X } X if (&confirm_yn("Continue with next user?", "yes")) { X &new_users; X } else { X print "Good by.\n" if $verbose; X } } X # sub password_pref { X $defaultpasswd = !&confirm_yn("Use empty passwords", "yes"); } X # misc sub check_root { X die "You are not root!\n" if $<; } X sub usage { X warn < $dir\n" if $verbose; X if (!symlink("/usr$dir", $dir)) { X warn "$dir: $!\n"; return 0; X } X } else { X local($d,$p); X foreach $d (split('/', $dir)) { X $dir = "$p/$d"; X $dir =~ s|^//|/|; X if (! -e "$dir") { X print "Create $dir\n" if $verbose; X if (!mkdir("$dir", 0755)) { X warn "$dir: $!\n"; return 0; X } X } X $p .= "/$d"; X } X } X return 1; } X X # Read one of the elements from @list. $confirm is default. # If !$allow accept only elements from @list. sub confirm_list { X local($message, $allow, $confirm, @list) = @_; X local($read, $c); X X print "$message " if $message; X print "@list [$confirm]: "; X chop($read = ); X $read =~ s/^[ \t]*//; X $read =~ s/[ \t\n]*$//; X return $confirm unless $read; X return $read if $allow; X X foreach $c (@list) { X return $read if $c eq $read; X } X warn "$read: is not allowed!\n"; X return &confirm_list($message, $allow, $confirm, @list); } X # YES or NO question # $confirm => 'y' or 'n'. Return true if answer 'y' (or 'n') sub confirm_yn { X local($message, $confirm) = @_; X local($yes) = "^(yes|YES|y|Y)$"; X local($no) = "^(no|NO|n|N)$"; X local($read, $c); X X if ($confirm && ($confirm =~ "$yes" || $confirm == 1)) { X $confirm = "y"; X } else { X $confirm = "n"; X } X print "$message (y/n) [$confirm]: "; X chop($read = ); X $read =~ s/^[ \t]*//; X $read =~ s/[ \t\n]*$//; X return 1 unless $read; X X if (($confirm eq "y" && $read =~ "$yes") || X ($confirm eq "n" && $read =~ "$no")) { X return 1; X } X X if ($read !~ "$yes" && $read !~ "$no") { X warn "Wrong value. Enter again!\a\n"; X return &confirm_yn($message, $confirm); X } X return 0; } X # test if $dotdir exist sub dotdir_check { X return 1 if -e $dotdir && -r _ && (-d _ || -l $dotdir); X warn "Directory: $dotdir does not exist or unreadable. " . X "Cannot copy dotfiles!\n"; X $dotdir = ''; X return 0; } X # write @list to $file with file-locking sub append_file { X local($file,@list) = @_; X local($e); X local($LOCK_EX) = 2; X local($LOCK_UN) = 8; X X open(F, ">> $file") || die "$file: $!\n"; X print "Lock $file.\n" if $verbose > 1; X flock(F, $LOCK_EX); X print F join("\n", @list) . "\n"; X close F; X print "Unlock $file.\n" if $verbose > 1; X flock(F, $LOCK_UN); } X # return free uid+gid # uid == gid if possible sub next_id { X local($group) = @_; X X # looking for next free uid X while($uid{$uid_start}) { X $uid_start++; X print "$uid_start\n" if $verbose > 1; X } X X local($gid_start) = $uid_start; X # group for user (username==groupname) already exist X if ($groupname{$group}) { X $gid_start = $groupname{$group}; X } X # gid is in use, looking for another gid. X # Note: uid an gid are not equal X elsif ($gid{$uid_start}) { X while($gid{$gid_start} || $uid{$gid_start}) { X $gid_start--; X $gid_start = $uid_end if $gid_start < 100; X } X } X return ($uid_start, $gid_start); } X sub cp { X local($from, $to, $tilde) = @_; X X if (-e "$to") { X warn "cp: ``$to'' already exist, do not overwrite\n"; return 0; X } elsif (!(-f $from || -l $from)) { X warn "$from is not a file or symlink!\n"; return 0; X } elsif (!open(F, "$from")) { X warn "$from: $!\n"; return 0; X } elsif (!open(T, "> $to")) { X warn "$to: $!\n"; return 0; X } X X if ($tilde) { X $tilde = $to; X $tilde =~ s|.*/([^/]+/[^/]+)$|~$1|; X } else { X $tilde = $to; X } X print "copy $from to $tilde\n" if $verbose; X while() { X print T $_; X } X X close F; X close T; X return 1; } X ################ # main # &check_root; # You must be root to run this script! &variables; # initialize variables &parse_arguments(@ARGV); # parse arguments X &passwd_check; # check for valid passwdb &passwd_read; # read /etc/master.passwd &group_read; # read /etc/group &group_check; # check for incon* &dotdir_check; # check $dotdir print "\n"; &home_partition; # find HOME partition &shells_read; # read /etc/shells &shells_add; # maybe add some new shells &shells_pref; # enter default shell &password_pref; # maybe use password X &new_users; # add new users X #end SHAR_EOF chmod 0755 adduser || echo 'restore of adduser failed' Wc_c="`wc -c < 'adduser'`" test 16306 -eq "$Wc_c" || echo 'adduser: original size 16306, current size' "$Wc_c" fi exit 0 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 08:34:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA29771 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:34:20 -0800 Received: from uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu (uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu [128.174.57.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA29765 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:34:18 -0800 Received: by uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu id AA05527 (5.67b/IDA-1.3.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 2 Jan 1995 10:34:04 -0600 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 10:34:04 -0600 From: Terry Lee Message-Id: <199501021634.AA05527@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Emulex MD21 question Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk By any chance is anyone here familiar with the Emulex MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge? I'm trying to use one with a 10MHz ESDI drive and a 15MHz ESDI drive. It does work, but the transfer rate to the 15MHz drive is only about 650KB/s. I measured the transfer rate by both dd and CORETEST (DOS benchmark). It is as if the MD21 formats 15MHz drives with a 2:1 interleave. Is this a limitation of the MD21? Thanks for your time. Terry Lee terry@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 08:48:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA29915 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:48:19 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA29909 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:48:15 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA01393; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:47:52 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199501021647.IAA01393@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: st.c src, anyone? To: spaz@u.washington.edu (John Utz) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:47:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "John Utz" at Jan 2, 95 01:24:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 599 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi Folks; > > anybody have a pointer to a copy of the source for st? hell, even a > bonary would be great...well maybe not...i dont have the 1.1.5 > compattilbilty libs, so i better compile it myself for my 2.0 > machine...so if anybody has a copy they could ship me, i would rewally > appreciate it! thankyou! I have the sources here... if you don't have them yet, drop me a note back and I will tar them up and send them to you. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 08:51:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA29983 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:51:36 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA29977 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:51:34 -0800 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA19019 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 08:51:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199501021651.IAA19019@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA008905526; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:52:06 -0500 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: Re: FreeBSD2.0 install problem To: ljo@po.cwru.edu Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:52:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199501021113.GAA07449@amcell2.caisr.cwru.edu> from "L Jonas Olsson" at Jan 2, 95 06:13:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 567 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Did you check the translation against the DOS program pfdisk? Some Adaptec > (older ones) use 32 sectors, 32 heads. Also be sure you don't have the > Adaptec set for higher than 5 MB/s (or possibly 5.7 MB/s). > > Jonas > I checked the pfdisk... It came up with the 32 and 64 split. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2943 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 11:53:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA01798 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:53:14 -0800 Received: from prosun.first.gmd.de (prosun.first.gmd.de [192.35.150.136]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA01791 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:53:06 -0800 Received: from g386bsd.first.gmd.de by prosun.first.gmd.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06657; Mon, 2 Jan 95 20:51:33 +0100 Received: by g386bsd.first.gmd.de (UAA28360); Mon, 2 Jan 1995 20:53:46 +0059 From: Andreas Schulz Message-Id: <199501021954.UAA28360@g386bsd.first.gmd.de> Subject: Re: Emulex MD21 question To: terry@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu (Terry Lee) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 20:53:46 +0059 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501021634.AA05527@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu> from "Terry Lee" at Jan 2, 95 10:34:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1441 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > By any chance is anyone here familiar with the Emulex MD21 ESDI->SCSI > bridge? I'm trying to use one with a 10MHz ESDI drive and a 15MHz ESDI drive. > It does work, but the transfer rate to the 15MHz drive is only about 650KB/s. > I measured the transfer rate by both dd and CORETEST (DOS benchmark). It is > as if the MD21 formats 15MHz drives with a 2:1 interleave. Is this > a limitation of the MD21? Thanks for your time. My "Emulex SCSI DISK CONTROLLER PROGRAMMING REFERENCE MANUAL" :-) "The interleave factor may be specified during a format operation (see the FORMAT UNIT command)." FORMAT UNIT Command Descriptor Block: Byte 0 4 1 Logical Unit Number | FmtDat | CmpLst | Defect List Format 2 Format Data Pattern 3 Interleave ( MSB ) 4 Interleave ( LSB ) 5 Vendor Unique | Reserved | Flag | Link An interleave value of 0 or 1 requests that the target use its default interleave ( 1:1 sequential ). What you may see is the overhead of the poor 8031 that decodes the SCSI commands, this thing was never fast :-). The whole Manual from EMULEX 3545 Harbour Boulevard Costa Mesa, California 92626 (714) 662-5600 TWX 910-595-2521 MD2352501 Rev A May, 1986 Look at the Date, i don't know if the address is valid anymore :-). ATS ( ats@first.gmd.de or ats@cs.tu-berlin.de ) Andreas Schulz GMD-FIRST 12489 Berlin-Adlershof Rudower Chaussee 5 Gebaeude 13.7 Tel: +49-30-6392-1856/+49-177-2134745 Germany/Europe From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 16:14:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA07583 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 16:14:52 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA07577 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 16:14:51 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA02218; Mon, 2 Jan 95 17:08:55 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9501030008.AA02218@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DCD loss reporting to mgetty To: timb@europa.com (Tim Bach) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 17:08:55 MST Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Tim Bach" at Jan 1, 95 11:20:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Does anyone out there know how i can detect carrier loss with mgetty? > Or know where i can find a idle user timout(For modem users). Modify mgetty. The program is an abomination before God, mostly because by having a complete open present prevents you from using the port bidirectionally. The mgetty program should ensure that the controlling tty for itself is the port being opened, and it should catch SIGHUP. For most BSD like behaviour, this means setting it up before the port open. Check out the sources to the real getty to see what I mean. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 19:30:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA09342 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 19:30:19 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA09336 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 19:30:12 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA25453; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:26:05 +1100 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:26:05 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501030326.OAA25453@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, terry@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Emulex MD21 question Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > By any chance is anyone here familiar with the Emulex MD21 ESDI->SCSI >bridge? I'm trying to use one with a 10MHz ESDI drive and a 15MHz ESDI drive. >It does work, but the transfer rate to the 15MHz drive is only about 650KB/s. >I measured the transfer rate by both dd and CORETEST (DOS benchmark). It is >as if the MD21 formats 15MHz drives with a 2:1 interleave. Is this >a limitation of the MD21? Thanks for your time. Some controllers can't keep up with 15MHz unless the drive is formatted with 2:1 interleave. I had this problem with a WD1007V-SE/1 controller. I enjoyed trashing my 10MHz and 15MHz ESDI drives (original cost US$2250) and replacing them with a US$300 IDE drive to get twice the performance. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 21:29:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA10037 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:29:28 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA10031 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:29:24 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07339 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:24:43 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA00649; 2 Jan 95 22:35:41 CST (Mon) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA00646 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:35:39 -0600 Message-Id: <199501030435.WAA00646@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 22:35:37 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've read the README and the RELNOTES in the sound directory but since I'm clueless when it comes to PC sound cards I'm not sure how to parse the instructions. What is the recommended cheap sound card... all I want to do is play .au files from the web. Digitizing would be nice. Midi and 16 bit sound is irelevant. Joystick and Yet Another SCSI Controller is irrelevant. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 21:50:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA10175 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:50:44 -0800 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA10168 for hackers; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:50:44 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:50:44 -0800 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199501030550.VAA10168@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: newsgroup status? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What happenned to the RFD on FreeBSD newsgroups? Jeffrey From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 21:53:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA10199 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:53:33 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA10193 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:53:13 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA01158; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 07:52:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199501030552.HAA01158@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 07:52:18 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've read the README and the RELNOTES in the sound directory but since I'm > clueless when it comes to PC sound cards I'm not sure how to parse the > instructions. What is the recommended cheap sound card... all I want to do > is play .au files from the web. Digitizing would be nice. Midi and 16 bit > sound is irelevant. Joystick and Yet Another SCSI Controller is irrelevant. I use a SoundBlaster Pro for similar reasons. Works Just fine for me. I have some cute scripts to send and receive audio MIME mail. It has a CDROM connector, and it does have a game port, but these are both of the cheap variety. -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 22:15:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA10456 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:15:23 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA10450 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:15:22 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01821; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:15:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Garrett Wollman cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ypserv for FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 31 Dec 94 14:23:27 EST." <9412311923.AA07252@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 22:15:07 -0800 Message-ID: <1820.789113707@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > One of the NetBSD people (I guess de Raadt) was working on a YP server > last I heard anything about it. I think they have I think Theo would prefer to see us rot in hell than use his driver, and we don't need the aggro. Any other suggestions? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 22:50:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA10752 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:50:46 -0800 Received: from titan.np.ac.sg (titan.np.ac.sg [153.20.24.72]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA10743 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 22:50:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199501030650.WAA10743@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: break out to shell To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:48:44 +0800 (SST) From: SysAdmin - Ng Pheng Siong In-Reply-To: <199412300604.WAA05606@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Dec 29, 94 10:04:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 404 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> [ about a fixit floppy ] > Look very closely at src/etc/Makefile, the stuff should still be in > there. Further to this, if you just need a shell to get to the things in /stand (if you haven't blown that away), use the NetBSD installation floppies. I've just done that to get sysinstall onto the h/d. If it (using the NetBSD floppies) is a Bad Thing to do, I'll like to hear about it. ;) - PS From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 23:18:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA11074 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:18:48 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11068 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:18:47 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA02071; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:18:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Morgan Davis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: perl 5? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 31 Dec 94 20:05:32 PST." <199501010405.UAA11484@io.cts.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 23:18:11 -0800 Message-ID: <2070.789117491@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a reason why perl 5.0 is not included in FBSD? 5.0 was > release some months ago. If not, is there a schedule for having it > included into subsequent releases? 5.0 certainly won't be in FreeBSD by default for some time. No schedule yet, but we certainly won't even consider putting it in until conventional wisdom whispers it's ready. > If it's a question of time and a someone to ensure the port, I may be > interested in doing it. I installed it for SCO a few months ago > without much pain. FBSD will likely be a piece of cake. A port is indeed how I envisioned it being done in the interim. /usr/ports/lang/perl5 perhaps? Go for it! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 23:19:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA11087 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:19:53 -0800 Received: from sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu (sun-lamp.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.138.88]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11080 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:19:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA20107; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:16:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199501030716.XAA20107@sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: sun-lamp.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Garrett Wollman , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ypserv for FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jan 1995 22:15:07 PST." <1820.789113707@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 23:16:47 -0800 From: Adam Glass Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > One of the NetBSD people (I guess de Raadt) was working on a YP server > > last I heard anything about it. I think they have > > I think Theo would prefer to see us rot in hell than use his driver, > and we don't need the aggro. Any other suggestions? > > Jordan I think theo was working with a yp server guy to resolve some concerns we had. Resolution unclear. later, Adam Glass From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 23:20:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA11120 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:20:28 -0800 Received: from staff.cc.purdue.edu (staff.cc.purdue.edu [128.210.7.43]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11113 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:20:26 -0800 Received: from staff.cc.purdue.edu by staff.cc.purdue.edu (4.1/Purdue_CC) id AA18498; Tue, 3 Jan 95 02:20:08 EST Message-Id: <9501030720.AA18498@staff.cc.purdue.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone working on MS-DOS boot program? Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 02:20:07 -0500 From: "John H. Aughey" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone currently working on the MS-DOS boot program? It's TASKID: 940820009 in the TODO list. If not, I'll take a stab at it. --- John H. Aughey jha@staff.cc.purdue.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 23:41:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA11235 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:41:21 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11229 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:41:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA02185; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:41:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: mailing list help? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Jan 95 07:59:41 EST." <199501011259.HAA06570@ponds.UUCP> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 23:40:58 -0800 Message-ID: <2184.789118858@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Can someone point me to the commands/mail/whatever to alter > my mailing address on the lists. (I've lost whatever I had > saved about majordomo.) Send majordomo@freebsd.org the keyword "help". Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 23:58:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA11617 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:58:50 -0800 Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11611 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:58:48 -0800 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA26336; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:58:12 +0100 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199501030758.IAA26336@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: ypserv for FreeBSD? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:58:11 +0100 (MET) Cc: wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1820.789113707@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 2, 95 10:15:07 pm Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 358 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > One of the NetBSD people (I guess de Raadt) was working on a YP server > > last I heard anything about it. I think they have > > I think Theo would prefer to see us rot in hell than use his driver, > and we don't need the aggro. Any other suggestions? > Your grandma must have had one helluva bike. tg (couldn't resist) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 2 23:59:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA11640 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:59:45 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11634 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:59:45 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA19840 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:59:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA02263; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:59:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: william pechter ILEX cc: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Subject: Re: FreeBSD2.0 install problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Jan 95 17:39:38 EST." <199501012238.OAA14705@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 23:59:19 -0800 Message-ID: <2262.789119959@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm using the 1.2 meg boot disk... I did try the 1.44 once. Do you have a 1.44 floppy drive? I'm curious why you only tried this once. I've seen very strange problems occur from marginal media or drives - the new floppy driver appears to be MUCH more sensitive than the old one, and I've actually had to bin a floppy drive that just wouldn't load FreeBSD no how no way.. Out of alignment or something. Have you tried examining the `installed' system with a fixit disk or something to see if it looks kosher? A kernel and init and everything intact, etc.. > If this doesn't work I'm going to try NetBSD 1.0 and then lock > in to FreeBSD 1.1. ? I can't parse this, sorry! :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 00:13:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA11846 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:13:28 -0800 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA11839 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:13:19 -0800 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA26932 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for ); Tue, 3 Jan 1995 09:12:47 +0100 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA13356; Tue, 3 Jan 95 09:12:34 +0100 From: phk@login.dknet.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Message-Id: <9501030812.AA13356@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: Anyone working on MS-DOS boot program? To: jha@staff.cc.purdue.edu (John H. Aughey) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 9:12:32 MET Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501030720.AA18498@staff.cc.purdue.edu>; from "John H. Aughey" at Jan 3, 95 2:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Is anyone currently working on the MS-DOS boot program? It's > TASKID: 940820009 in the TODO list. If not, I'll take a stab > at it. Yes, Christian Gusenbauer is working on it. I belive he is almost finished. I don't have my mail files right here, so I don't have the details here. Can you fill them in details Christian ? Poul-Henning From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 00:17:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA11919 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:17:41 -0800 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11913 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:17:37 -0800 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id DAA03055; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 03:15:13 -0500 From: Wankle Rotary Engine Message-Id: <199501030815.DAA03055@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: ypserv for FreeBSD? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 03:15:09 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1820.789113707@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 2, 95 10:15:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1675 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk They say this Jordan K. Hubbard person was kidding when he wrote: > > > One of the NetBSD people (I guess de Raadt) was working on a YP server > > last I heard anything about it. I think they have > > I think Theo would prefer to see us rot in hell than use his driver, > and we don't need the aggro. Any other suggestions? > > Jordan > The server that I'm working on porting right now comes from Linux, and it was written by Peter Eriksson. It's GPL'ed. The only code I have with Theo de Raadt's name on it is in the yppasswd package: Olaf Kirch apparently wrote yppasswdd, but yppasswd itself lists both Olaf's and Theo's names in the header. Also, yppasswdd is GPL'ed, while yppasswd has a BSD-style copyright. Be that as it may, both programs were in the same tar file when I got them. The remaining pieces (ypxfr, yppush and yp_mkdb) come from another GPL'ed Linux package, written by another gentleman whose name escapes me just now. I've added my own bits and pieces as well, of course. Incidentally, I'm trying to get this stuff done as soon as possible, but I'm wondering: exactly when is 2.1 due to be released anyway? -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul System Manager wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu Center for Telecommunications Research (212) 854-6020 Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 00:36:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA12128 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:36:32 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA12120 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:36:28 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA13689; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:36:09 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.9/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA00193; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:36:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199501030836.AAA00193@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Wankle Rotary Engine cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ypserv for FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 03:15:09 EST." <199501030815.DAA03055@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 00:36:08 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Incidentally, I'm trying to get this stuff done as soon as possible, >but I'm wondering: exactly when is 2.1 due to be released anyway? The current plan is sometime after the end of February. ...but 2.1 is going to be as polished and bug-free as possible, and if this means the schedule slips by a week or two, so be it. Mid March is most likely. Of course, this doesn't mean you'll have that long to work on things - major things should be finished by the end of this month. I'm not the authority on the release schedule, however, as I'm not the release engineer. I think Poul-Henning is going to do this again, so perhaps he may give something more definate. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 01:28:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA13404 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 01:28:09 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA13398 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 01:28:08 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA02728; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 01:27:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Wankle Rotary Engine cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NIS stuff update In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jan 95 04:41:09 EST." <199501020941.EAA01587@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 01:27:34 -0800 Message-ID: <2727.789125254@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > - Clean up the Makefiles. > > - Dump it all on Jordan's head. Hahahaha.. You think I'm just going to let you get away with that? Fat chance. You've been hacking WAY too much lately, bub, and you know what we do with wise guys who hack too much? We give them commit privileges and demand that they learn CVS, that's what we do! Actually, usually we demand they learn CVS _first_, then we give them commit privileges, but in your case I'll make an exception. You still get to learn CVS either way since the core team will hurt you if you mangle the tree and future generations will laugh at you, doodling mocking pictures of you on their school desks. Hey! We're keeping the hat warm, just for you! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 01:52:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA13645 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 01:52:48 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA13639 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 01:52:47 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA02860; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 01:52:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Wolfram Schneider cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New adduser script In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jan 95 13:26:51 +0100." <199501021226.NAA06305@ole.cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 01:52:16 -0800 Message-ID: <2859.789126736@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > #!/bin/sh > # This is a shell archive (produced by shar 3.49) > # To extract the files from this archive, save it to a file, remove > # everything above the "!/bin/sh" line above, and type "sh file_name". This is very nice. MUCH nicer than the previous one (sorry Gary, but it's true! :-). Uh, now all it lacks is a manpage.. Any chance of getting a manpage? :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 02:12:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA14195 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 02:12:27 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA14189 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 02:12:21 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id LAA27575 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:12:44 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11087; Tue, 3 Jan 95 11:12:57 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501031012.AA11087@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: New adduser script To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:12:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2859.789126736@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 01:52:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 525 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > This is very nice. MUCH nicer than the previous one (sorry Gary, but > it's true! :-). Uh, now all it lacks is a manpage.. Any chance of > getting a manpage? :) Is this a adduser contest ??? :-)))) I've got mine too to submit. Without manpage too. Even more complete but less interactive than this one. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 02:20:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA14232 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 02:20:27 -0800 Received: from FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at (ftp.fim.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.100.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA14226 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 02:20:24 -0800 Received: by FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA02220; Tue, 3 Jan 95 11:20:35 +0100 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 11:20:35 +0100 From: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at (DI. Christian Gusenbauer) Message-Id: <9501031020.AA02220@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at> To: jha@staff.cc.purdue.edu, phk@login.dknet.dk Subject: Re: Anyone working on MS-DOS boot program? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! > Yes, Christian Gusenbauer is working on it. I belive he is almost finished. > I don't have my mail files right here, so I don't have the details here. > > Can you fill them in details Christian ? Yes, it's available from fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at:/pub/soft/unix/fbsdboot.arj! To unpack it, please use arj.exe, which you can find in that directory, too. This is version 1.5 of fbsdboot.exe (with sources) and should work. But it needs testing, too. So if you are willing to test, I'ld say: go for it! Your experiences are welcome! Fbsdboot boots /kernel from the first FreeBSD partition it finds, or - if you want it - from a kernel on a DOS medium. Just start fbsdboot with "-?" as option and you get information about its options! Christian. ----------------------------- DI. Christian Gusenbauer gusenbauer@fim.uni-linz.ac.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 02:58:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA14792 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 02:58:41 -0800 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA14784 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 02:58:22 -0800 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA15463 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for ); Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:57:38 +0100 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA16823; Tue, 3 Jan 95 11:57:24 +0100 From: phk@login.dknet.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Message-Id: <9501031057.AA16823@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: ypserv for FreeBSD? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 11:57:22 MET Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501030836.AAA00193@corbin.Root.COM>; from "David Greenman" at Jan 3, 95 12:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The current plan is sometime after the end of February. ...but 2.1 is > going to be as polished and bug-free as possible, and if this means the > schedule slips by a week or two, so be it. Mid March is most likely. > Of course, this doesn't mean you'll have that long to work on things - > major things should be finished by the end of this month. > I'm not the authority on the release schedule, however, as I'm not the > release engineer. I think Poul-Henning is going to do this again, so perhaps > he may give something more definate. I expect the snapshot at the end of Feb to be functionally identical to 2.1, but the exact dates are not fixed yet. But as a rule of thumb, no new functionality after mid February... Poul-Henning From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 03:11:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA15093 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 03:11:15 -0800 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA15087; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 03:11:14 -0800 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA14894; Tue, 3 Jan 95 06:10:25 -0500 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA05686; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:10:24 -0500 Message-Id: <9501031110.AA05686@fedora.x.org> To: Jeffrey Hsu Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: newsgroup status? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jan 1995 21:50:44 PST." <199501030550.VAA10168@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 06:10:24 EST From: Kaleb Keithley Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >What happenned to the RFD on FreeBSD newsgroups? For one thing, news.announce.newgroups is closed for business until 4 Jan. The RFD was posted around the beginning of December and was listed in the last list of active RFDs. Watch news.announce.newgroups for the CFV. -- Kaleb From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 04:17:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA16285 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:17:28 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16274 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:17:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA10241; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:17:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jan 95 22:35:37 CST." <199501030435.WAA00646@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 04:17:03 -0800 Message-ID: <10240.789135423@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Get a Sound Blaster Value Edition. It's like $39.00. Jordan > I've read the README and the RELNOTES in the sound directory but since I'm > clueless when it comes to PC sound cards I'm not sure how to parse the > instructions. What is the recommended cheap sound card... all I want to do > is play .au files from the web. Digitizing would be nice. Midi and 16 bit > sound is irelevant. Joystick and Yet Another SCSI Controller is irrelevant. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 04:28:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA16463 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:28:14 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16457 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:28:14 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA10286; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:27:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Wankle Rotary Engine cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ypserv for FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 03:15:09 EST." <199501030815.DAA03055@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 04:27:45 -0800 Message-ID: <10285.789136065@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Incidentally, I'm trying to get this stuff done as soon as possible, > but I'm wondering: exactly when is 2.1 due to be released anyway? Theoretically March, but we're actually trying to be different for once and start rolling preliminaries _much sooner_. This means we have a quicker peak of development and, in theory, a longer testing cycle. In theory, anyway. We can only try it and see how it works out! 2.1 is definitely not supposed to be about crazed innovation, but simple refinement of what's there. Said refinement isn't going to come immediately, but we can at least make it easier by doing all the really painful transitionary stuff and the general bricks-n-mortar at the beginning rather than the end. Then it's just fix fix test test through late February and March with no serious upheavals to hamper progress. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 04:47:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA16675 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:47:39 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16669 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:47:38 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA10435; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 04:46:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New adduser script In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 11:12:56 +0100." <9501031012.AA11087@blaise.ibp.fr> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 04:46:55 -0800 Message-ID: <10434.789137215@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > This is very nice. MUCH nicer than the previous one (sorry Gary, but > > it's true! :-). Uh, now all it lacks is a manpage.. Any chance of > > getting a manpage? :) > > Is this a adduser contest ??? :-)))) I've always thought that competition bred innovation.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 06:09:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA17799 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:09:23 -0800 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA17768 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:09:12 -0800 Received: from ole.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@ole.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.28.1]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA01762 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:08:39 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by ole.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA15385; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:08:22 +0100 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:08:22 +0100 Message-Id: <199501031408.PAA15385@ole.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: perl5 & tkperl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk If someone build a package for perl5, please include Tk extension (tkperl). Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 06:13:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA17835 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:13:33 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA17829 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:13:30 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id PAA29642 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:13:50 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11533; Tue, 3 Jan 95 15:14:02 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501031414.AA11533@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: New adduser script To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:14:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10434.789137215@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 04:46:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2118 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've always thought that competition bred innovation.. :-) Mine is too big to post : 122 accountrc 19 groupdefs 904 new-account.pl 1045 total But it is able to manage sendmail aliases, sendmail userdb entries, finds uid holes, multiple groups, and so on. I've rewritten the configuration routine and will add an option to insert /etc/uucp/sys entries for UUCP sites. I'll put the whole archive on freefall. ------------------------------------------------------------ new-account.pl : Account Creation Program. Copyright (c) 1993, 94 by Ollivier Robert (roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net) Version 1.06 on 03/12/94. Usage: new-account.pl [options] login fullname group [group...] Options: -N doesn't execute anything, just show commands, -m send greeting message to new user, -s shell specifies the shell to use instead of /sbin/tcsh, -u uid specifies une user-id to use (default is next free in class), -a alias specifies the alias to put in /etc/aliases, -p pwd use that encrypted password, -q be quiet and do not display messages. Configuration file is /usr/local/etc/accountrc. Group definition file is /usr/local/etc/groupdefs. ------------------------------------------------------------ The group definition file (new) has the following format : # config file for new-account(8) # # Defines the different groups available # # (c) 1993,94 by Ollivier Robert (roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net) # # $Id$ # # Here lie the group descriptions # # format is : # # group_name = ( uid_min-uid_max base_dir def_shell options ) # staff = ( 100-199 /users/staff /bin/tcsh mail,alias,userdb ) copains = ( 200-499 /users/copains /bin/tcsh mail,alias,userdb ) uucp = ( 500-599 /var/spool/uucp /usr/libexec/uucp/uucico nodir ) slip = ( 600-699 / /usr/sbin/sliplogin nodir ) ppp = ( 700 799 / /usr/local/sbin/ppplogin nodir ) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 06:15:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA17877 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:15:33 -0800 Received: from styx.ibmoto.com (styx.ibmoto.com [129.38.252.14]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA17861; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:15:14 -0800 Received: from bartling.ibmoto.com (bartling.ibmoto.com [129.38.33.7]) by styx.ibmoto.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA27413; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:14:10 -0600 From: Steve Bartling Received: (bartling@localhost) by bartling.ibmoto.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA30025; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:14:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199501031414.IAA30025@bartling.ibmoto.com> Subject: Latest in my SLIP saga :-) To: bartling@ibmoto.com (Steve Bartling) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:14:10 -0600 (CST) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, bartling@ibmoto.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, freebsd-questions@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199412302239.QAA22769@bartling.ibmoto.com> from "Steve Bartling" at Dec 30, 94 04:39:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2395 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Latest copy of my start_slip script : #!/bin/csh # # script for starting SLIP connection using DELL UNIX and BOOTP protocol # #slattach -c -l -s 38400 /dev/cua00 slattach -c -h -s 38400 /dev/cua00 # configure initial SLIP link to the terminal server # HTP1 = 129.38.252.50 # HTP2 = 129.38.252.51 # I do not remember what 129.38.14.8 is supposed to represent # ifconfig sl0 inet 129.38.14.8 129.38.252.50 # # add domain name, and nameserver addresses to /etc/resolve.conf # in order to configure the nameservice # echo "domain ibmoto.com" > /etc/resolv.conf echo "nameserver 129.38.252.14" >> /etc/resolv.conf echo "nameserver 127.0.0.1" >> /etc/resolv.conf # # add default route for all packets to HTP2 if dialing in 795-7555 # HTP1 = 129.38.252.50 # HTP2 = 129.38.252.51 # route add default 129.38.252.51 # # determine my dynamically allocated I.P. address using bootptest # ./bootptest > /tmp/bootp.out set my_addr = `grep "reply" /tmp/bootp.out | cut -f9 -d' ' | cut -c3-20` set server_addr = `grep "reply" /tmp/bootp.out | cut -f10 -d' ' | cut -c3-20` set gateway_addr = `grep "reply" /tmp/bootp.out | cut -f11 -d' ' | cut -c3-20` set hops = `grep "reply" /tmp/bootp.out | cut -f6 -d' ' | cut -c6-20` echo "my address = $my_addr" echo "server address = $server_addr" echo "gateway address = $gateway_addr" echo "# of hops = $hops" # # reconfigure sl0 using my dynamically allocated I.P. address # and the address of the terminal server ( HTP2 ) ifconfig sl0 inet $my_addr $server_addr exit This now works if I do the following after the above script is run : route delete default 129.38.252.51 followed by : route add default 129.38.252.51 After deleting then adding back the default route, I am able to achieve full functionality. After all of the above, netstat -r yields : reef# netstat -r Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Interface default htp2.ibmoto.com UGS 5 353 sl0 localhost localhost UH 0 104 lo0 htp2.ibmoto.com htp2-4.ibmoto.com UH 1 0 sl0 htp2-4.ibmoto.co localhost UH 0 0 lo0 224 localhost US 0 0 lo0 Does this seem correct ? I am too green around the edges to find a problem all by myself :-) Feel free to request more info ... Thanks for your help. - Steve Bartling From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 07:06:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA18768 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 07:06:38 -0800 Received: from andrew.cmu.edu (ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.101]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA18762; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 07:06:34 -0800 Received: (from postman@localhost) by andrew.cmu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA03257; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:06:14 -0500 Received: via switchmail; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:06:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcs16.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:06:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcs16.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mms.4.60.Nov..4.1993.10.47.44.sun4c.411.EzMail.Phred.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs16.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.pcs16.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:06:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:06:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10240.789135423@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 3-Jan-95 Re: Recommended sound card .. by "Jordan K. Hubbard"@time > Get a Sound Blaster Value Edition. It's like $39.00. And can be found used even cheaper (I got mine for around $25). Only problem is that they truly suck under Windows 3.1 and Windows NT (at least on my system), so if you use multiple OS's you might want to go for the Sound Blaster Pro (still pretty cheap). alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 08:40:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA21182 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:40:55 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA21176 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:40:53 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA11668; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:40:22 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA12979; Tue, 3 Jan 95 10:39:03 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9501031639.AA12979@olympus> Subject: nfs: how bad is it? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:39:01 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 617 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have made a FreeBSD 2.0 box a ypclient and nfs client at work. I can login to the box with my nfs shared home directory as my home. I can edit a file but if I save it, it saves with 0 length. I cannot create a file. I have the same uid and gid I do from the Sun but the /etc/group file is not set to use NIS. Has anyone else done this and had it work? Thanks, Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner faulkner@mpd.tandem.com _______________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 09:59:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA22267 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 09:59:53 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA22261 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 09:59:51 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id TAA02556 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:00:13 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12121; Tue, 3 Jan 95 19:00:25 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501031800.AA12121@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: New adduser script To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:00:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10434.789137215@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 04:46:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 575 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've always thought that competition bred innovation.. :-) Mine is on freefall in my directory : -rw-r--r-- 1 roberto roberto 8522 Jan 3 09:57 new-account-1.06.tar.gz -rwxr-xr-x roberto/staff 28073 Dec 13 09:24 1994 new-account.pl -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 2451 Dec 3 18:00 1994 accountrc -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 559 Dec 4 12:34 1994 groupdefs -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 10:08:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA22376 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:08:42 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA22370 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:08:41 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA05179; Tue, 3 Jan 95 11:02:27 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9501031802.AA05179@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: nfs: how bad is it? To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 11:02:26 MST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501031639.AA12979@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Jan 3, 95 10:39:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have made a FreeBSD 2.0 box a ypclient and nfs client at work. I can > login to the box with my nfs shared home directory as my home. I can > edit a file but if I save it, it saves with 0 length. I cannot create > a file. I have the same uid and gid I do from the Sun but the /etc/group > file is not set to use NIS. > > Has anyone else done this and had it work? Yes, I have. The problem is the format of the entry that goes at the end of the group file; unfortunately, I can't access my system right now, and it changed from 1.1.5 to 2.0 anyway. This really should be a simple '+' or '+:', but is not. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 10:31:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA23402 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:31:26 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23396 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:31:23 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA17187; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 12:30:21 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA13723; Tue, 3 Jan 95 12:29:33 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9501031829.AA13723@olympus> Subject: Re: nfs: how bad is it? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 12:29:32 -0600 (CST) Cc: faulkner@devnull.mpd.tandem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501031802.AA05179@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 3, 95 11:02:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1231 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I have made a FreeBSD 2.0 box a ypclient and nfs client at work. I can > > login to the box with my nfs shared home directory as my home. I can > > edit a file but if I save it, it saves with 0 length. I cannot create > > a file. I have the same uid and gid I do from the Sun but the /etc/group > > file is not set to use NIS. > > > > Has anyone else done this and had it work? > > Yes, I have. > > The problem is the format of the entry that goes at the end of the group > file; unfortunately, I can't access my system right now, and it changed > from 1.1.5 to 2.0 anyway. > > This really should be a simple '+' or '+:', but is not. > > > Terry Lambert Using +: breaks logging in. The connection will close. I tried without changing /etc/group. ls -als shows the group as designated in my /etc/group according to the number given by NIS. I fixed my /etc/group to have the same entry as yp but no dice. Permission denied. The gid is 9, the man group. Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner faulkner@mpd.tandem.com _______________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 10:31:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA23411 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:31:37 -0800 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23405 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:31:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA05128 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:33:40 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199501031833.TAA05128@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Today's sup... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:33:39 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 358 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Trying to configure a new kernel I saw the following message: Unknown % construct in generic makefile: %BEFORE_DEPEND Is this a bug, or I need a new config (I have 2.0R binaries) ? The offending construct is in /sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 rizzo# ls -l Makefile.i386 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 5575 Dec 31 21:10 Makefile.i386 Thanks Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 10:32:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA23427 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:32:34 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23421 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:32:32 -0800 Received: from masi.ibp.fr (root@masi.ibp.fr [132.227.60.23]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id TAA02800 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:32:43 +0100 Received: from ares.ibp.fr (card@ares.ibp.fr [132.227.64.31]) by masi.ibp.fr (8.6.9/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id TAA12506 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:32:18 +0100 From: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr (Remy CARD) Received: by ares.ibp.fr (8.6.9/jtpda-5.0) id TAA01718 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:29:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199501031829.TAA01718@ares.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: nfs: how bad is it? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:29:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501031802.AA05179@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 3, 95 11:02:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1090 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I have made a FreeBSD 2.0 box a ypclient and nfs client at work. I can > > login to the box with my nfs shared home directory as my home. I can > > edit a file but if I save it, it saves with 0 length. I cannot create > > a file. I have the same uid and gid I do from the Sun but the /etc/group > > file is not set to use NIS. > > > > Has anyone else done this and had it work? > > Yes, I have. I have too :-) > The problem is the format of the entry that goes at the end of the group > file; unfortunately, I can't access my system right now, and it changed > from 1.1.5 to 2.0 anyway. > > This really should be a simple '+' or '+:', but is not. Actually, I had to add a line: +::: to the end of the /etc/group file. When I tried to use '+:' like on Sun workstations, login dumped core :-( I think that there is a bug in a library function which does not check the lines in /etc/group before using them. > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Remy From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 10:52:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA24633 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:52:34 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24627 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:52:32 -0800 Received: from masi.ibp.fr (root@masi.ibp.fr [132.227.60.23]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id TAA02934 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:52:47 +0100 Received: from ares.ibp.fr (card@ares.ibp.fr [132.227.64.31]) by masi.ibp.fr (8.6.9/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id TAA12608 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:52:22 +0100 From: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr (Remy CARD) Received: by ares.ibp.fr (8.6.9/jtpda-5.0) id TAA01940 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:50:01 +0100 Message-Id: <199501031850.TAA01940@ares.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Today's sup... To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:50:00 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501031833.TAA05128@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Jan 3, 95 07:33:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 449 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Trying to configure a new kernel I saw the following message: > > Unknown % construct in generic makefile: %BEFORE_DEPEND > > Is this a bug, or I need a new config (I have 2.0R binaries) ? The > offending construct is in /sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 You need to recompile config from FreeBSD-current. > rizzo# ls -l Makefile.i386 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 5575 Dec 31 21:10 Makefile.i386 > > > Thanks > Luigi > Remy From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 10:54:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA24684 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:54:31 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24678 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:54:28 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA18019; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 12:53:20 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA13790; Tue, 3 Jan 95 12:52:31 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9501031852.AA13790@olympus> Subject: Re: nfs: how bad is it? To: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr (Remy CARD) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 12:52:31 -0600 (CST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, faulkner@devnull.mpd.tandem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501031829.TAA01718@ares.ibp.fr> from "Remy CARD" at Jan 3, 95 07:29:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1697 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > a file. I have the same uid and gid I do from the Sun but the /etc/group > > > file is not set to use NIS. > > > > > The problem is the format of the entry that goes at the end of the group > > file; unfortunately, I can't access my system right now, and it changed > > from 1.1.5 to 2.0 anyway. > > > > This really should be a simple '+' or '+:', but is not. > > Actually, I had to add a line: > +::: > to the end of the /etc/group file. When I tried to use '+:' like > on Sun workstations, login dumped core :-( I think that there is a bug in > a library function which does not check the lines in /etc/group before > using them. > > Terry Lambert > Remy > +::: works fine. I expanded the permissions in my test directory to 777 and created a file. To my surprise. > >bozo1 [faulkner@greylan2] /usr/people/casio21/faulkner/greylan2 > ls -als total 10 0 drwxrwxrwx 2 faulkner kdev 96 Jan 3 12:49 . 10 drwxr-xr-x 35 faulkner kdev 5120 Jan 3 10:26 .. 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 faulkner kdev 0 Jan 3 10:36 .login 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 sp 60001 0 Jan 3 12:49 bozo1 sp is a user with uid=60001. I had removed the man line from /etc/group and both passwd and group files use NIS. I umounted the filesystem and remounted. No change. My mount command is mount_nfs -i -t 30 casio-gw:/usr/people/casio21 /tmp_mnt/usr/people/casio21 Do I need something else? Do I need another file set for yp? Thanks. Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner faulkner@mpd.tandem.com _______________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 11:03:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA24788 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:03:26 -0800 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA24782 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:03:24 -0800 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA02235; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:03:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:03:03 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9501031903.AA02235@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nfs: how bad is it? In-Reply-To: <9501031802.AA05179@cs.weber.edu> References: <9501031639.AA12979@olympus> <9501031802.AA05179@cs.weber.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < This really should be a simple '+' or '+:', but is not. It should be a valid group line with `+' for the group name and empty values for the other fields. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 11:20:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA24949 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:20:02 -0800 Received: from uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu (uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu [128.174.57.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA24943 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:20:00 -0800 Received: by uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu id AA12159 (5.67b/IDA-1.3.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:19:41 -0600 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:19:41 -0600 From: Terry Lee Message-Id: <199501031919.AA12159@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Topiozone, a new benchmark? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've heard for a long time that busmastering disk controller cards reduce the load on a multi-processing OS, but seeing it makes me a believer! Originally, I had ESDI drives hooked up to an UltraStor 12F (ISA). Recently, I added a BusLogic BT-445C (VLB) host adapter. Since I happened to have an Emulex MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge, I decided to experiment with it. On my 10MHz ESDI drive, I ran iozone for both the ESDI->12F and the ESDI->MD21->BT445C configurations. Using the MD21 slightly reduces the disk's size and iozone score. OK, that's to be expected (the MD21 uses part of the disk for its own use). But when I ran top during iozone, was I surprised! On my otherwise idle system running X and "iozone 32m 512", the ESDI->12F configuration left only about (my rough estimate) 50% idle CPU time (about 30% of the CPU time was spent in interrupts), while the ESDI->MD21->BT445C configuration left at least 80% idle CPU time (about 1% of the CPU time was spent in interrupts). When running "iozone 32m 8192", the CPU idle time of both configurations improved to about 65% and 95%, respectively. On my 15MHz ESDI drive, the CPU consumption of the ESDI->12F configuration was even worse (I haven't tested the ESDI->MD21->BT445C configuration yet). FYI, my system is a 486DX40 with 16MB of RAM. I'm running the ISA bus at 13.3MHz. The kernel is FreeBSD-current from about a week ago. If my observation holds true for IDE drives and VLB IDE controller cards (I wonder if the faster transfer rate of current IDE drives makes the CPU consumption even worse or not), then this would be a reason to go with busmastering SCSI (with the exception of busmastering EIDE, of course). Now, if I can only get good transfer rates with my 15MHz drive and MD21... But that's another story. :-) Terry Lee terry@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 13:40:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA29254 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:40:07 -0800 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29246 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:40:06 -0800 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id OAA10722 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:39:46 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199501032139.OAA10722@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: cvs goodies To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:39:46 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 144 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! Would it be possible to make available the CVS scripts, "modules" file, etc. used in maintaining the source tree? Thx, --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 13:41:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA29319 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:41:24 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29310 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:41:19 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA25734; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:40:11 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA14219; Tue, 3 Jan 95 15:39:14 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9501032139.AA14219@olympus> Subject: Re: nfs: how bad is it? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:39:13 -0600 (CST) Cc: faulkner@devnull.mpd.tandem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501031802.AA05179@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 3, 95 11:02:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1017 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Pass the bloody hat. While I should have done this to /etc/passwd +:::::0:0::: I had done this +::0:0::0:0::: It is good to be the king! Anyway, access is cool now. But here is one for you. [faulkner@greylan2] /tmp > ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 faulkner wheel 0 Jan 4 16:16 bozo -rw-r--r-- 1 faulkner wheel 0 Jan 4 16:21 bozo1 -rw-r--r-- 1 haynes wheel 0 Jan 4 16:23 yow [faulkner@greylan2] /tmp > ls -la total 4 drwxrwxrwx 2 root wheel 512 Jan 4 16:23 . drwxr-xr-x 17 root wheel 512 Dec 31 18:29 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 0 Jan 4 16:16 bozo -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 0 Jan 4 16:21 bozo1 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 0 Jan 4 16:23 yow [faulkner@greylan2] /tmp Notice how the users change with the simple addition of an a. Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner faulkner@mpd.tandem.com _______________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 13:44:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA29455 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:44:19 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29449 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:44:18 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA11725; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:38:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New adduser script In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 15:14:01 +0100." <9501031414.AA11533@blaise.ibp.fr> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 13:38:39 -0800 Message-ID: <11724.789169119@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > But it is able to manage sendmail aliases, sendmail userdb entries, finds > uid holes, multiple groups, and so on. I've rewritten the configuration > routine and will add an option to insert /etc/uucp/sys entries for UUCP sites Can it handle sites like freefall, where different groups of people get assigned to the end of some range? (e.g hackers get the next 6xx uid, WC staff get 2xxx, archive maintainers get 1xxx, etc). If so, *I* would sure use it! :-) Creating accounts on freefall now is kind of a pain in the butt. You need to find the next free uid in the 600 range (for 99% of new users, anyway), then create the account, then make a corresponding group id, then create the REAL home dir in /a, then chown it to ., then create a symlink to it in /home. I'll agree that it's probably something of a special case, but it's not a bad model, either. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 13:53:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA29661 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:53:37 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29654 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:53:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA11843; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:53:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 10:06:07 EST." Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 13:53:16 -0800 Message-ID: <11842.789169996@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > And can be found used even cheaper (I got mine for around $25). Only problem > is that they truly suck under Windows 3.1 and Windows NT (at least on my > system), so if you use multiple OS's you might want to go for the Sound > Blaster Pro (still pretty cheap). Why do they suck so bad? All the Pro is going to get you is the rather dubious stereo it achieves by wiring the electronic equivalent of two SB VE's to the same board! The sound isn't going to be necessarily better, since it's the same sound source, just doubled. Is it the *software* support that's superious under Windows? If so, then this might be the thing. I never use my SB under Windows for anything but general monaural digital output, so I wouldn't notice any such shortcomings.. Actually, all my sound cards are now SB16+ASP+WB combos or the AWE32 and I *still* don't really use all that weird shit they give you for Windows! :-) Now if I had an X package that fully supported playing Midi files on the higher-end Creative Labs cards, that would be nifty.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 14:07:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA00151 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:07:05 -0800 Received: from nine.ws.cc.cmu.edu (root@NINE.WS.CC.CMU.EDU [128.2.74.74]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00143 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:07:04 -0800 Received: (alex@localhost) by nine.ws.cc.cmu.edu (8.6.9/19.6) id RAA14406; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:06:23 -0500 From: Alex Wetmore Message-Id: <199501032206.RAA14406@nine.org> Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:06:22 -0500 (EST) Cc: aw2t+@andrew.cmu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11842.789169996@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 01:53:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 942 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Why do they suck so bad? All the Pro is going to get you is the > rather dubious stereo it achieves by wiring the electronic equivalent > of two SB VE's to the same board! The sound isn't going to be > necessarily better, since it's the same sound source, just doubled. Well, on my machine (486sx/25, 16 megs, SB 1.5, AHA1542) my audio is really warbly under Windows NT and noticably warbly under WFW 3.11. Just playing back the standard 22khz sounds that Windows uses for beeps is pretty terrible. On another machine in the house (386dx/33, 8 megs, SB Pro, IDE, WFW) the beeps sound a lot better. I was just figuring that it was a result of the drivers talking to the card over an 8-bit bus (original SB is 8bit ISA, Pro is 16bit ISA) and Windows not keeping up with the SB interrupts telling it to get more data to the card. It should be able to keep up though... With the NetBSD and FreeBSD drivers the card works fine. alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 14:45:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA00862 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:45:57 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00856 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:45:55 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA03888 ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:46:19 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12671; Tue, 3 Jan 95 23:46:31 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501032246.AA12671@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: New adduser script To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:46:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11724.789169119@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 01:38:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1313 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Can it handle sites like freefall, where different groups of people > get assigned to the end of some range? (e.g hackers get the next 6xx > uid, WC staff get 2xxx, archive maintainers get 1xxx, etc). That yes. In the groupdefs file there are classes for each group. > kind of a pain in the butt. You need to find the next free uid in the > 600 range (for 99% of new users, anyway), then create the account, > then make a corresponding group id, then create the REAL home dir in > /a, then chown it to ., then create a symlink to it in > /home. That model no. Creating a group per user is not currently supported. I guess that would be a major change in the script's philosophy (sp?). > I'll agree that it's probably something of a special case, but it's not > a bad model, either. I'll see if I can incorporate that kind of behaviour without breaking the rest. At the time a group (in /etc/group) = a range of uids. Holes in the range are found and reused. Maybe executing a special script at the end of the general one, site-init.pl or some kind. Hmmm I'll think over that. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 14:55:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01048 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:55:43 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01038 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:55:33 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA14484; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 09:52:16 +1100 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 09:52:16 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501032252.JAA14484@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, terry@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Topiozone, a new benchmark? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've heard for a long time that busmastering disk controller cards >reduce the load on a multi-processing OS, but seeing it makes me a believer! >... >ESDI drive, I ran iozone for both the ESDI->12F and the ESDI->MD21->BT445C >configurations. Using the MD21 slightly reduces the disk's size and iozone >score. OK, that's to be expected (the MD21 uses part of the disk for its own >use). But when I ran top during iozone, was I surprised! On my otherwise >idle system running X and "iozone 32m 512", the ESDI->12F configuration left >only about (my rough estimate) 50% idle CPU time (about 30% of the CPU time >was spent in interrupts), while the ESDI->MD21->BT445C configuration left The ESDI Interrupt time would be over 50% if you had a faster drive :-]. I see an overhead of about 50% for 1100K/sec from an IDE drive. Large overheads are to be expected because the maximum IDE transfer rate is low (3.3MB/sec (?)). ISA ethernet cards transferring 1100K/sec have approximately the same overhead for the same reason. EIDE drives have a much larger maximum transfer rate (11MB/sec (?) in PIO mode 3, not much different for EIDE DMA). This should be almost as good as the busmastering SCSI overhead for one or two drives. The BT445S has a transfer speed of 40MB/sec but you would be lucky to find a memory system as fast as that. Try the `systat -vmstat'iozone benchmark. systat shows the cpu ways in a neater way than top. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 15:16:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA01325 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:16:52 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA01319 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:16:50 -0800 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13094; Tue, 3 Jan 95 17:13:58 CST From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9501032313.AA13094@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: New adduser script To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:13:57 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11724.789169119@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 01:38:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4beta PL9] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2721 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Can it handle sites like freefall, where different groups of people > get assigned to the end of some range? (e.g hackers get the next 6xx > uid, WC staff get 2xxx, archive maintainers get 1xxx, etc). > > If so, *I* would sure use it! :-) Creating accounts on freefall now is > kind of a pain in the butt. You need to find the next free uid in the > 600 range (for 99% of new users, anyway), then create the account, > then make a corresponding group id, then create the REAL home dir in > /a, then chown it to ., then create a symlink to it in > /home. > > I'll agree that it's probably something of a special case, but it's not > a bad model, either. kinda a trivial case... :-) consider tossing automounted homes and the like into the fray - access to multiple systems, some depending on group memberships - etc etc. ;-) What would be really excellent is a consistent interface to do particular parts of the "adduser" phase, because some of us are ultimately going to have to roll our own administrative tools, as has been done in the past. It would be real nice to say pwd_add jkh guest,uuadmin /home/wye/u0/jkh "Jordan K. Hubbard" passwd and have this program just add the friggin' passwd file entry, encrypt the password, maybe piddle with groups, and be done. Given enough "small module" functionality, it would become much easier to write adduser scripts for particularly complex environments. My adduser script for the Sun actually calls "vipw" with a munged VISUAL environment variable to do the dirty work. Gross!! Gross!! But it was the only reasonable way to get it working reliably. The rest of it is highly tied in with my paperwork/accounting system and security system - unfortunately, I have to do gross things like separate users into "underage" and "adult" groups, to prevent kiddies from reading alt.sex, or to prevent them from downloading alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* and having their parents sue my butt off. That means that the monolithic adduser script is pretty much useless. (I know, it sucks.) Anyone else in a situation like this? Can we work out an "interface" of some sort that provides modules to do things, while not locking somebody in too much? I can see a few obvious ones: pwd_add, pwd_delete, homedir_add (create home dir, create dotfiles from /usr/share/skel, set modes), homedir_delete, grp_add, etc... Then we can roll a generic 5-line "adduser" metascript, and it would be a little easier to customize on a per-site basis... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 15:21:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA01392 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:21:43 -0800 Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA01386 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:21:36 -0800 Received: from [192.245.33.12] by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.8/1.0A) id SAA13259; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 18:50:55 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 18:30:27 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Subject: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Allright, so what can be done? How can I map out bad sectors on a scsi drive? Do I have to newfs the drive? pocs1[2]: fsck /dev/rsd0e ** /dev/rsd0e ** Last Mounted on /usr ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes sd0(aha0:0:0): medium error, info = 848030 (decimal) CANNOT READ: BLK 663616 CONTINUE? [yn] y sd0(aha0:0:0): medium error, info = 848030 (decimal) sd0(aha0:0:0): medium error, info = 848031 (decimal) THE FOLLOWING DISK SECTORS COULD NOT BE READ: 663710, 663711, ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups 20099 files, 334968 used, 83029 free (10405 frags, 9078 blocks, 2.5% fragmentation) -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 15:25:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA01510 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:25:21 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA01497 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:25:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA12493; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:24:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 18:30:27 EST." Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 15:24:32 -0800 Message-ID: <12492.789175472@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Allright, so what can be done? How can I map out bad sectors on a scsi > drive? Do I have to newfs the drive? Return it to the manufacturer. A good SCSI drive shouldn't develop faults like this, and when it does, it's time to shoot it. Jordan > > > pocs1[2]: fsck /dev/rsd0e > ** /dev/rsd0e > ** Last Mounted on /usr > ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes > sd0(aha0:0:0): medium error, info = 848030 (decimal) > > CANNOT READ: BLK 663616 > CONTINUE? [yn] y > sd0(aha0:0:0): medium error, info = 848030 (decimal) > sd0(aha0:0:0): medium error, info = 848031 (decimal) > THE FOLLOWING DISK SECTORS COULD NOT BE READ: 663710, 663711, > ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames > ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity > ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts > ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups > 20099 files, 334968 used, 83029 free (10405 frags, 9078 blocks, 2.5% > fragmentation) > > > > -Mark Taylor > mtaylor@cybernet.com > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 16:37:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA06085 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:37:11 -0800 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA06078 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:37:06 -0800 Received: from beryll.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@beryll.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.28.11]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA16136; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:14:44 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by beryll.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA28584; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:14:41 +0100 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:14:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199501040014.BAA28584@beryll.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New adduser script In-Reply-To: <11724.789169119@time.cdrom.com> References: <9501031414.AA11533@blaise.ibp.fr> <11724.789169119@time.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > Can it handle sites like freefall, where different groups of people > get assigned to the end of some range? (e.g hackers get the next 6xx > uid, WC staff get 2xxx, archive maintainers get 1xxx, etc). > > If so, *I* would sure use it! :-) Creating accounts on freefall now is > kind of a pain in the butt. You need to find the next free uid in the > 600 range (for 99% of new users, anyway), then create the account, > then make a corresponding group id, then create the REAL home dir in > /a, then chown it to ., then create a symlink to it in > /home. > > I'll agree that it's probably something of a special case, but it's not > a bad model, either. > > Jordan We (*) have a script, which allow the users to create, administrate, manipulate etc. groups. Limits: 16 groups per user, 200 users per group. Sorry, the manpage is only in german, but the options should be self explained. (*) CS Department TU-Berlin, 5042 Users, 500 Suns, nis+ Gruß Wolfram NAME grp - Verwalten von UNIX-Gruppen fuer jedermann/frau SYNOPSIS grp -show [] grp -setup|-establish [] grp -dissolve|-liquidate grp -admin grp -lname grp -invite|-cancel|-exclude [ ...] grp -join|-refuse|-reject|-resign|-suspend|-leave DESCRIPTION grp erlaubt das Einrichten, Verwalten und Aufloesen von Unix- Gruppen. Jeder Benutzer kann bis zu 16 Gruppen einrichten. Jede Gruppe kann bis zu 200 Benutzer aufnehmen. Aenderungen an Gruppeneintraegen werden in der Regel immer eine Stunde nach der Aenderung wirksam. OPTIONS Die Optionen teilen sich auf in solche fuer Mitglieder einer Gruppe bzw. eingeladene Benutzer und solche fuer den Adminis- trator, den Verwalter einer Gruppe. Die Option -show kann von jedem aufgerufen werden. -show Ohne Parameter wird angezeigt, welche Gruppen vom Benutzer verwaltet werden, in welchen Gruppen er Mitglied ist sowie zu welchen Gruppen er eingeladen ist. Mit einem Gruppennamen als Parameter werden Informationen ueber die entsprechende Gruppe gegeben. Optionen fuer Mitglieder von Gruppen bzw. eingeladene Benutzer: -join Voraussetzung: der Verwalter einer Gruppe hat den Benutzer in die Gruppe eingeladen. Mit dieser Option wird man Mit- glied der angegebenen Gruppe. Ist der Benutzer bereits in 16 Gruppen, wird die Aufnahme abgelehnt. -refuse -reject Voraussetzung: der Verwalter einer Gruppe hat den Benutzer in die Gruppe eingeladen. Der Benutzer lehnt die Einladung ab. -leave -resign Voraussetzung: Der Benutzer ist Mitglied der angegebenen Gruppe. Er verlaesst die Gruppe; das Verlassen kann nur durch eine erneute Einladung des Verwalters der Gruppe und eine Bestaetigung des Benutzers rueckgaengig gemacht werden. -suspend Voraussetzung: Benutzer ist Mitglied der Gruppe; er kann ohne erneute Einladung des Verwalters wieder in die Gruppe zurueck (mit -join). Optionen fuer Verwalter einer Gruppe; diese Kommandos koennen nur vom Verwalter, Gruppen- oder Systemverwalter aufgerufen werden. Die Anzahl der Mitglieder und eingeladenen Benutzer darf 200 nicht ueberschreiten; wird diese Zahl ueberschritten, wird die Abarbeitung der folgenden Kommandos abgebrochen. -setup [] -establish [] Aufmachen einer neuen Gruppe; Voraussetzung ist, dass der Benutzer in weniger als 16 Gruppen ist. Der Gruppenname darf zwischen drei und acht Zeichen lang sein; das erste Zeichen muss ein Kleinbuchstabe, die fol- genden muessen entweder Kleinbuchstaben oder Ziffern sein. Optional kann ein Langname angegeben werden, der die Gruppe beschreibt; der Langname darf bis zu 50 Zeichen lang sein, keine Kontrollzeichen und ':' enthalten. Sollen Leerzeichen oder Sonderzeichen enthalten sein, ist der Name in Anfueh- rungszeichen zu setzen ('Eine neue Gruppe'). Existiert der gewaehlte Name bereits, muss ein anderer gewaehlt werden. Ist der Name aus technischen, moralischen oder ethischen Gesichtspunkten nicht vertretbar, kann die Gruppe vom Systemverwalter umbenannt werden. -lname Aendern des Langnamens (siehe auch -setup). -dissolve -liquidate Die angegebene Gruppe wird aufgeloest, egal ob die Gruppe noch Mitglieder oder eingeladene Benutzer aufweist. -admin Die Verwaltung der Gruppe wird an den angegebenen Benutzer uebertragen (muss Mitglied der Gruppe sein). -invite [ ...] Einladen von Benutzern in eine Gruppe. -cancel [ ...] Zuruecknehmen von Einladungen. -exclude [ ...] Benutzer aus einer Gruppe auschliessen. Das sollte besser im Einverstandnis mit dem Benutzer geschehen. SEE ALSO chgrp(1), newgrp(1), groups(1), id(1) NOTES Aenderungen werden stuendlich im Netz bekannt gemacht und erst nach newgrp(1) oder erneutem Login wirksam. BUGS Initiale Gruppen (Gruppen, bei denen nicht alle Bentzer in 'xgroup' stehen, koennen von deren Verwalter (wenn einer existiert) geloescht werden. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 16:39:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA06110 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:39:34 -0800 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA06103 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:39:30 -0800 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA00285; Tue, 3 Jan 95 19:38:39 -0500 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA07204; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:38:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9501040038.AA07204@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: mcopy to a floppy drive Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 19:38:38 EST From: Kaleb Keithley Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On a 1.1.5.1 system, why does mcopy insist that the floppy drive is busy when I try to copy something to the drive. I can mcopy from, mdir, etc., etc. I built the apparently latest version 2.0.7 and have had no better luck with it. It's a 1.44 meg drive. -- Kaleb From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 16:41:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA07683 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:41:55 -0800 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA07676 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:41:39 -0800 Received: (from tom@localhost) by haven.uniserve.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA26263; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:30:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:30:26 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Ollivier ROBERT , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New adduser script In-Reply-To: <11724.789169119@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > But it is able to manage sendmail aliases, sendmail userdb entries, finds > > uid holes, multiple groups, and so on. I've rewritten the configuration > > routine and will add an option to insert /etc/uucp/sys entries for UUCP sites > How would you configure an adduser script to be run by a group of non-root users? Flagging it setuid doesn't seem to work... BTW, what's the difference between /usr/bin/perl and /usr/bin/suidperl? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 17:00:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA21876 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:00:59 -0800 Received: from crab.xinside.com (crab.xinside.com [199.120.247.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21870 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:00:54 -0800 Received: (jdc@localhost) by crab.xinside.com (8.6.8/8.6.5) id RAA09817; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:56:27 -0700 From: Jeremy Chatfield Message-Id: <199501040056.RAA09817@crab.xinside.com> Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:56:26 +0000 (MST) Cc: aw2t+@andrew.cmu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11842.789169996@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 01:53:16 pm Organization: X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Phone: +1(303)470-5302 Reply-To: jdc@crab.xinside.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 586 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > Now if I had an X package that fully supported playing Midi files on the > higher-end Creative Labs cards, that would be nifty.. We hear - let us finish the Matrox Comet/Marvel support first, then we'll look at synchronised sound, honest! Cheers, JeremyC. -- Jeremy Chatfield, +1(303)470-5302, FAX:+1(303)470-5513, email:jdc@xinside.com X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Commercial X Server - for more information please try these services http://www.xinside.com info@xinside.com ftp.xinside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 17:44:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA27545 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:44:14 -0800 Received: from saul1.u.washington.edu (saul1.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.20]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA27539 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:44:13 -0800 Received: by saul1.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW94.10/UW-NDC Revision: 2.32 ) id AA04684; Tue, 3 Jan 95 17:43:51 -0800 X-Sender: spaz@saul1.u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:43:50 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: FreeBSD hackerlist Subject: FreeBSD on SCHOOL SYSTEMS???? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi gang! I would like to here from all people sysadmining a collection of student pc's running freebsd How do you keep folks from sticking a boot disk in; logging in as root, and spamming the whole system? thankyou! ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 17:46:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA00200 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:46:38 -0800 Received: from saul1.u.washington.edu (saul1.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.20]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA29993 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:46:36 -0800 Received: by saul1.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW94.10/UW-NDC Revision: 2.32 ) id AA06825; Tue, 3 Jan 95 17:46:14 -0800 X-Sender: spaz@saul1.u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:46:14 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: FreeBSD hackerlist Subject: /dev/psm0 or where is /src/sys/doc/optios.doc? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi gang i have a pc at school that am demoing FreeBSD on for the ee network gods. how do i make the damnb ps2 mouse work? the faq points me to a noneexistent file in a nonexistant dir... thanks! ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 19:29:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA13971 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:29:58 -0800 Received: from simon.chi.il.us (simon.chi.il.us [199.245.227.17]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA13965 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:29:52 -0800 Received: by simon.chi.il.us (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0rPMQK-000NB5C; Tue, 3 Jan 95 21:30 CST Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 21:30 CST From: steve@simon.chi.il.us (Steven E. Piette) To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > To: Peter da Silva > cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 > Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 04:17:03 -0800 > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Or if you would like something that will do 16bit at 44k in stereo the MediaVision ProAudio 16 Basic is around $49. Steve > > Get a Sound Blaster Value Edition. It's like $39.00. > > Jordan > > > I've read the README and the RELNOTES in the sound directory but since I'm > > clueless when it comes to PC sound cards I'm not sure how to parse the > > instructions. What is the recommended cheap sound card... all I want to do > > is play .au files from the web. Digitizing would be nice. Midi and 16 bit > > sound is irelevant. Joystick and Yet Another SCSI Controller is irrelevant. > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 19:46:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA14067 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:46:59 -0800 Received: from relay4.UU.NET (relay4.UU.NET [192.48.96.14]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA14061 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:46:57 -0800 Received: from news.cs.utexas.edu by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxxed04585; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:46:35 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (root@mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by news.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA14610 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:45:46 -0600 Received: from uudell.us.dell.com (uudell.us.dell.com [143.166.224.6]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA25879 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:45:54 -0600 Received: from obiwan by uudell.us.dell.com (5.67/dns1.3) with UUCP id AA06316; Wed, 4 Jan 95 03:41:59 GMT Received: by obiwan.uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #19) id m0rPLst-00032DC; Tue, 3 Jan 95 20:55 WET Message-Id: From: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Will srcdist for 2.0-941222-SNAP be restored? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (freebsd-hackers) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:55:34 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 394 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is the source distribution for 2.0-941222-SNAP going to be recreated? I have a friend that has this level installed on and we need to rebuild his kernel to move some I/O ports & IRQs. Thanks, -- Bob Willcox ...!{rutgers|ames}!cs.utexas.edu!uudell!obiwan!bob Austin, TX or try: @uudell.us.dell.com:obiwan!bob 512-258-4224 (home), 512-838-3914 (work) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 19:49:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA14112 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:49:54 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA14106 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:49:53 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA13842; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:49:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com (Bob Willcox) cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (freebsd-hackers) Subject: Re: Will srcdist for 2.0-941222-SNAP be restored? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 20:55:34 CST." Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 19:49:29 -0800 Message-ID: <13841.789191369@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is the source distribution for 2.0-941222-SNAP going to be recreated? > I have a friend that has this level installed on and we need to rebuild > his kernel to move some I/O ports & IRQs. I'm afraid not. I was just going to go ahead with another snapshot. Realy sorry for the srcdist not happening, but it was just an unhappy accident that my src tree got spammed in between making the first snapshot, seeing that it was bad somehow, and then having the spam happen right before I had a chance to do another one. Sigh! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 20:07:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA14284 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:07:33 -0800 Received: from bsd.coe.montana.edu (bsd.coe.montana.edu [153.90.192.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA14278 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:07:32 -0800 Received: (nate@localhost) by bsd.coe.montana.edu (8.6.8/8.3) id VAA06449; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:11:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:11:41 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199501040411.VAA06449@bsd.coe.montana.edu> In-Reply-To: John Utz "FreeBSD on SCHOOL SYSTEMS????" (Jan 3, 5:43pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: John Utz , FreeBSD hackerlist Subject: Re: FreeBSD on SCHOOL SYSTEMS???? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to here from all people sysadmining a collection of > student pc's running freebsd > > How do you keep folks from sticking a boot disk in; logging in as > root, and spamming the whole system? Most students don't have the ability to build a boot disk, and those that do probably won't. But, if you are worried, you can put a password on the BIOS on the computer and disable booting from floppy. And, if you are *really* concerned you can disable the wait on the bootblocks to keep them from going single user or at least make the console insecure which forces them to enter a password. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 20:12:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA14334 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:12:33 -0800 Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA14328 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:12:32 -0800 Received: by plains.NoDak.edu; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:12:08 -0600 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:12:08 -0600 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199501040412.AA08177@plains.NoDak.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org, mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com Subject: Re: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk one time I had a drive that somehow had an error below scsi driver but not a physical error that reported as a medium error. I backup what I could and low-level the drive and that cleaned up the error. I would give it try before sending the drive back. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 21:56:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA15143 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:56:29 -0800 Received: from Tut.MsState.Edu (root@Tut.MsState.Edu [130.18.80.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15137 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:56:28 -0800 Received: from Isis.MsState.Edu (gnh1@Isis.MsState.Edu [130.18.80.11]); by Tut.MsState.Edu using SMTP (8.6.9/6.5m-FWP); id XAA09229; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:56:05 -0600 Received: (gnh1@localhost); by Isis.MsState.Edu (8.6.8.1/6.0c-FWP); id XAA08114; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:56:04 -0600 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:56:04 -0600 (CST) From: GNH1 X-Sender: gnh1@Isis.MsState.Edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Will srcdist for 2.0-941222-SNAP be restored? In-Reply-To: <13841.789191369@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'm afraid not. I was just going to go ahead with another snapshot. Hmm, how long till it's out? I just started ncftp with an mget of the current snapshot, let it run all night while I sleep...should I wait? Be happy... ,---------------------------------------------------------------------. |-- Stormy Sebastian Henderson ---------- Mad Coder trying to learn --| |---- Stormy@Mail.Mother.COM -------------- x86 assembly language ----| `---------------------------------------------------------------------' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 22:14:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA15256 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:14:47 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA15250 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:14:46 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA14288; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:14:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: GNH1 cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Will srcdist for 2.0-941222-SNAP be restored? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 23:56:04 CST." Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 22:14:17 -0800 Message-ID: <14287.789200057@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No, go for it. It won't be for awhile let. > On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I'm afraid not. I was just going to go ahead with another snapshot. > > Hmm, how long till it's out? I just started ncftp with an mget of the > current snapshot, let it run all night while I sleep...should I wait? > > Be happy... > > > ,---------------------------------------------------------------------. > |-- Stormy Sebastian Henderson ---------- Mad Coder trying to learn --| > |---- Stormy@Mail.Mother.COM -------------- x86 assembly language ----| > `---------------------------------------------------------------------' > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 22:19:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA15321 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:19:43 -0800 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA15315 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:19:42 -0800 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0rPP3z-0000hTC; Tue, 3 Jan 95 22:19 PST Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA08252 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:14:45 -0800 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199501040614.WAA08252@io.cts.com> Subject: FreeBSD (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:14:45 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1391 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just passing this along. Are there any known problems with the newer fdisk? System Administrator writes: > From root@tachyon.cts.com Tue Jan 3 22:00:47 1995 > Message-Id: > From: root@tachyon.cts.com (System Administrator) > Subject: FreeBSD > To: mdavis@io.cts.com > Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:08:38 -0800 (PST) > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 919 > > Hi Morgan.. I decided to start putting FreeBSD on tachyon.. I got the new > boot disks as you suggested. They say 'FreeBSD 2.0 RELEASE' when it > loads and shows the installer. Well, I've been doing this for 2+ hours > (based on the number of TV shows that have come and gone) .. and am STILL > working on partitioning the disk. FreeBSD's 'fdisk' refuses to create > any partitions on any of my disks of a size larger than 1MB (I have a 345Mb, > a 1012Mb, a 40Mb (syquest), and a 120Mb disk in tachyon -- SCSI). Soo.. > we're not off to a good start. I had to boot linux and use it's fdisk to > create the partitions and label them as FreeBSD.. now I am about to reboot > FreeBSD and see if I can 'label' them as needed. > > Anyways, the Prerelease 2.0 installer Fdisk'ed my disks with no problem.. > one would think the newer version would do it better.. lets hope this is > the only problem with it... HmmmMMMM.. > > C'ya later! > -Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 22:32:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA15573 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:32:52 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA15566 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:32:51 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA14376; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:32:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Morgan Davis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 22:14:45 PST." <199501040614.WAA08252@io.cts.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 22:32:00 -0800 Message-ID: <14375.789201120@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Just passing this along. Are there any known problems with the newer fdisk? No. I'd say his problems are more related to incorrect geometry translation. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 23:48:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA16828 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:48:44 -0800 Received: from dkuug.dk (dkuug.dk [193.88.44.89]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA16821 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:48:40 -0800 Received: from kmd-ac.dk by dkuug.dk with UUCP id AA16864 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for freefall.cdrom.com!FreeBSD-hackers); Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:48:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199501040748.AA16864@dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: /dev/psm0 or where is /src/sys/doc/optios.doc? To: spaz@u.washington.edu (John Utz) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:50:48 +0000 (GMT) From: "Soeren Schmidt" Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "John Utz" at Jan 3, 95 05:46:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 751 X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi gang > > i have a pc at school that am demoing FreeBSD on for the ee network gods. > > how do i make the damnb ps2 mouse work? the faq points me to a > noneexistent file in a nonexistant dir... > > thanks! > > ******************************************************************************* > John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu > idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life You have to add the psm device to your config file, together with the ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR option. This is about to change soon :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@kmd-ac.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 3 23:57:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA17025 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:57:58 -0800 Received: from feta.cisco.com (feta.cisco.com [171.69.1.158]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA17019 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:57:57 -0800 Received: from localhost.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by feta.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/CISCO.SERVER.1.1) with SMTP id XAA02154; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 23:56:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199501040756.XAA02154@feta.cisco.com> X-Authentication-Warning: feta.cisco.com: Host localhost.cisco.com didn't use HELO protocol To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 In-Reply-To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com's message of 02 Jan 1995 20:35:37 PST Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 23:56:38 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've read the README and the RELNOTES in the sound directory but since I'm > clueless when it comes to PC sound cards I'm not sure how to parse the > instructions. What is the recommended cheap sound card... all I want to do > is play .au files from the web. Digitizing would be nice. Midi and 16 bit > sound is irelevant. Joystick and Yet Another SCSI Controller is irrelevant. Well, I'm going to be different. I say the GUS (Gravis UltraSound) is the card of choice for both BSD and DOS. It is -not- SB compatible (in hardware), but has the advantage of being the only card that I am aware of that can record and play at the same time (you can configure it to two dma channels) so you can use things like VAT. By the way, I have patches to 2.0 that are available for alpha-testing that use the GUS in this manner (and enable the VAT audio driver). Unfortunately, I don't know if they break non-GUS folks. Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 00:18:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA17212 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 00:18:37 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA17206 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 00:18:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA16099; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 00:16:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Paul Traina cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jan 95 23:56:38 PST." <199501040756.XAA02154@feta.cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 00:16:46 -0800 Message-ID: <16098.789207406@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Well, I'm going to be different. I say the GUS (Gravis UltraSound) is the > card of choice for both BSD and DOS. It is -not- SB compatible (in hardware) , > but has the advantage of being the only card that I am aware of that can The reason I never recommend the GUS is the simple reason that it often seems to get its knickers in a twist with FreeBSD and needs to be reset from *DOS*. This is just not a bug I'm willing to overlook when considering it as a recommendation. If someone can somehow figure out just what the GUS needs to set it up (run it off a diag extender while DOS is booting and capture the commands? :-), I might change my opinion. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 00:27:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA17267 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 00:27:34 -0800 Received: from feta.cisco.com (feta.cisco.com [171.69.1.158]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA17261 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 00:27:32 -0800 Received: from localhost.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by feta.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/CISCO.SERVER.1.1) with SMTP id AAA05168; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 00:26:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199501040826.AAA05168@feta.cisco.com> X-Authentication-Warning: feta.cisco.com: Host localhost.cisco.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 1995 00:16:46 PST." <16098.789207406@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 00:26:00 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > To: Paul Traina > Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva), hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 > Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 00:16:46 -0800 > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > > Well, I'm going to be different. I say the GUS (Gravis UltraSound) is the > > card of choice for both BSD and DOS. It is -not- SB compatible (in hardware) > , > > but has the advantage of being the only card that I am aware of that can > > The reason I never recommend the GUS is the simple reason that it > often seems to get its knickers in a twist with FreeBSD and needs to > be reset from *DOS*. This is just not a bug I'm willing to overlook > when considering it as a recommendation. If someone can somehow > figure out just what the GUS needs to set it up (run it off a diag > extender while DOS is booting and capture the commands? :-), I might > change my opinion. > > Jordan I'd be happy to bring up my GUS and drop it in your box if you want to do that. Amancio claimed he disassembled the GUS's ultrainit.sys and is programming it the exact same way. He told me he had it working from UNIX and gave me patches that I tried with no joy. I've *finally* found (two days ago) some info on programming the bastard, so in my copious (hah hah hah) free time, I'm going to try again. I'm under the impression that any I/O to a non-gus address between a certain reset command and completion locks out initialization changes to the GUS. I find this difficult to believe, but the first thing to do is change the definition of OUTB during system initialization because someone made it do an outb() to a non-GUS location to slow things down... SIGH. :-( From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 02:10:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA20920 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 02:10:19 -0800 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA20914 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 02:10:16 -0800 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0rPSf9-0000ewC; Wed, 4 Jan 95 02:09 PST Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA09168 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 02:05:26 -0800 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199501041005.CAA09168@io.cts.com> Subject: Machine state after reboot? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 02:05:26 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1388 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, folks. Many times now after rebooting out of FreeBSD, I've experienced trouble that required a reset to put the system back into shape. For example, rebooting back to the BIOS screen, then into MS-DOS and typing WIN to get to Windows will immediately cause the Window's "splash" screen to look very odd (e.g. video modes are toast), and the machine hangs. Or, pressing the Open button on my CD-ROM drive causes it to open and make a horrible wratcheting sound (like it's getting fed an endless loop of "eject" signals, because pressing the button again does not close the drawer). I've had to power down at this point. Some DOS programs have refused to run properly. These problems only occur after a warm reboot out of FreeBSD. If I hit the reset button or cycle power, it comes up fine. So something is not being reset or cleaned up properly and the machine comes up in a weird state. It's not a big deal to me -- I've gotten used to hitting Reset at the BIOS screen now, but it might be something to look into if it's reproducable on other systems. System profile: 486DX2/66-S 16MB RAM Trantor CD-ROM drive ProAudio Spectrum Award BIOS (circa November 1994, Energy Star, etc.) S3-based clone video card NE1000 enet board 3.5" floppy drive 400MB (2 Conner IDE drives) OS-Boot selector: DOS 6.22 / Windows 3.11 FreeBSD 2.1.0 Development #0 (-current as of Sunday, 1/1/95) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 02:56:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA21416 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 02:56:10 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA21410 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 02:56:07 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id FAA01628; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:55:38 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199501041055.FAA01628@hda.com> Subject: Re: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:55:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <12492.789175472@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 03:24:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1247 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > Allright, so what can be done? How can I map out bad sectors on a scsi > > drive? Do I have to newfs the drive? > > Return it to the manufacturer. A good SCSI drive shouldn't develop faults > like this, and when it does, it's time to shoot it. If you can't return the drive: I don't think Jordan's statement is universally true. Mode page 1 for a direct access device has a "AWRE" (automatic write reallocation) and "ARRE" (automatic read reallocation) selections that can be turned on and off. I'm not sure why these would be turned off. Also the spec reads that the automatic reallocation will be performed only if the target has the valid data. Maybe on some drives there are circumstances where that can happen. If you're running -current you can apply the patches in freefall:pub/incoming/sutar7.gz , rebuild the kernel and run the "ssec" command to slip the sectors by block number and the "mode_sense" command to see what the mode page settings are. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 -- Formerly hd@world.std.com. E-mail problems? Tell hdslip@iii.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 03:03:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA21546 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 03:03:51 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA21537 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 03:03:48 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id GAA01683; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:04:33 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199501041104.GAA01683@hda.com> Subject: Re: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:04:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com In-Reply-To: <199501040412.AA08177@plains.NoDak.edu> from "Mark Tinguely" at Jan 3, 95 10:12:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1644 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Mark Tinguely writes: > > one time I had a drive that somehow had an error below scsi driver > but not a physical error that reported as a medium error. I backup > what I could and low-level the drive and that cleaned up the error. > I would give it try before sending the drive back. IGNORE MY LAST MAIL - I was wrong and Jordan was wrong. See below. First, for Mark's mail: if it is not a medium error you should get a "non-media hardware failure" as the freefall owners will tell you. The reformat should work for real media failures because the defects should be on the grown defect list. But if the automatic reallocation is off it will come back again. Why I was Wrong: Look at section 8.3.3.6 of the SCSI-II spec. Automatic reallocation on read will only happen if the disk can fully recover the data. If the disk can't recover the data it isn't allowed to try to slip the sector (makes sense; maybe you can recover part of the data "manually"). Over the life of a drive it is reasonable that it will get an error on a block that has to be read. So we need some utility or something in the driver to handle that case. If you don't mind nuking the data (and there probably isn't much else you can do) I bet a write to that logical block will induce the drive to slip the block. "Just" do a read block / ignore and log errors / write block pass to the entire unmounted raw disk... Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 -- Formerly hd@world.std.com. E-mail problems? Tell hdslip@iii.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 03:04:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA21567 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 03:04:45 -0800 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA21560 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 03:04:43 -0800 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA08170; Wed, 4 Jan 95 06:03:48 -0500 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA07647; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:03:45 -0500 Message-Id: <9501041103.AA07647@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 06:03:45 EST From: Kaleb Keithley Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It turns out that neither flock or fcntl locking works on the floppy drive device files and by disabling locking entirely mcopy works okay. The $64,000 question is why doesn't either locking method work? Have I somehow fubar-ed my kernel config? Is this something that does work in 2.x? (I'm still using 1.1.5.1 and will be for a while longer) -- Kaleb From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 03:59:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA22188 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 03:59:40 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA22182 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 03:59:37 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA21225 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:33:38 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA25301; 4 Jan 95 05:17:18 CST (Wed) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA25298; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:17:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199501041117.FAA25298@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Paul Traina , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 00:16:46 PST." <16098.789207406@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 05:17:15 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The reason I never recommend the GUS is the simple reason that it > often seems to get its knickers in a twist with FreeBSD and needs to > be reset from *DOS*. Ick. It'd take me half an hour to find a DOS boot floppy... I think I'll go with the cheapest card I can since it seems to work fine under FreeBSD. Thanks for the info, everyone! I had no idea it was such a hot topic, with all these recommendations of the niftiest cards out there. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 04:31:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA22807 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 04:31:35 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA22794 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 04:30:58 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15508; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:30:05 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id NAA18871 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:30:04 +0100 Received: by bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA03631; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:19:58 +0100 From: j@uriah.sax.de (J Wunsch) Message-Id: <199501041219.NAA03631@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Subject: Re: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:19:58 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <12492.789175472@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 03:24:32 pm X-Phone: +49-351-8141 137 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 731 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: | | > Allright, so what can be done? How can I map out bad sectors on a scsi | > drive? Do I have to newfs the drive? | | Return it to the manufacturer. A good SCSI drive shouldn't develop faults | like this, and when it does, it's time to shoot it. If you don't like this, hook it up to a SCSI adapter with PC BIOS enabled, start the BIOS diag (usually g c800:6 or so from a debugger), and try to low-level format it. Some people say this causes bad sectors to be re-mapped. -- cheers, J"org work: --- no longer --- private: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 04:39:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA22922 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 04:39:42 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22916 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 04:39:36 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id NAA07723 ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:39:58 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14263; Wed, 4 Jan 95 13:40:09 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501041240.AA14263@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" To: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb Keithley) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:40:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9501041103.AA07647@fedora.x.org> from "Kaleb Keithley" at Jan 4, 95 06:03:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 666 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It turns out that neither flock or fcntl locking works on the floppy > drive device files and by disabling locking entirely mcopy works okay. > The $64,000 question is why doesn't either locking method work? Have > I somehow fubar-ed my kernel config? Is this something that does work > in 2.x? (I'm still using 1.1.5.1 and will be for a while longer) To my knowledge, mtools have never worked with any form of locking. I've not tried with 2.1. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 05:51:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA24355 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:51:40 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA24344 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:51:30 -0800 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA06195 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:50:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199501041350.FAA06195@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA030847424; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:50:24 -0500 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: Re: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:50:23 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199501041219.NAA03631@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jan 4, 95 01:19:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 967 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > | > | > Allright, so what can be done? How can I map out bad sectors on a scsi > | > drive? Do I have to newfs the drive? > | > | Return it to the manufacturer. A good SCSI drive shouldn't develop faults > | like this, and when it does, it's time to shoot it. > > If you don't like this, hook it up to a SCSI adapter with PC BIOS > enabled, start the BIOS diag (usually g c800:6 or so from a debugger), > and try to low-level format it. Some people say this causes bad > sectors to be re-mapped. > Adaptec has a scsi format utility that will do the same thing with the 154x controllers and probably the other adaptec ones. Check their ftp site. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2943 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 06:03:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA24568 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:03:15 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA24555 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:02:45 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA18816; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:01:44 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id PAA19772 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:01:43 +0100 Received: by bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA04116; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:39:54 +0100 From: j@uriah.sax.de (J Wunsch) Message-Id: <199501041339.OAA04116@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Subject: Re: New adduser script To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:39:53 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501040014.BAA28584@beryll.cs.tu-berlin.de> from "Wolfram Schneider" at Jan 4, 95 01:14:41 am X-Phone: +49-351-8141 137 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 4856 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Wolfram Schneider wrote: | | We (*) have a script, which allow the users to create, administrate, | manipulate etc. groups. Limits: 16 groups per user, 200 users per | group. Sorry, the manpage is only in german, but the options should | be self explained. Perhaps bad english is better than good german for 95 % of the members of this list, so i've quickly translated it. | NAME | grp - maintaining Unix groups for everyone | | SYNOPSIS | grp -show [] | grp -setup|-establish [] | grp -dissolve|-liquidate | grp -admin | grp -lname | grp -invite|-cancel|-exclude [ ...] | grp -join|-refuse|-reject|-resign|-suspend|-leave | | DESCRIPTION grp allows to install, maintain and remove unix groups. Every user is allowed to install up to 16 groups. Each group may contain up to 200 users. Changes made to the group entries usually will be honoured at least one hour after the change has been made. | OPTIONS The options are divided into options allowed for group members or invited users, and in options for administrators. The option -show can be called by everyone. | -show Without a parameter, shows which groups are maintained by the user, which groups (s)he is a member of, and which groups (s)he is invited to. Given a group name as parameter, the information about this group will be displayed. Options for group members of invited users: | -join Prerequired: the maintainer of a group has invited the user to that group. This option makes one to become a member of the group. If the user is already member of 16 groups, the request will be rejected. | -refuse | -reject Prerequired: the maintainer of a group has invited the user to that group. The user refuses the invitation. | -leave | -resign The user is a member of the group. He's going to leave the group hereby. This can only be reverted by another invitation of the group maintainer, followed by the user's confirmation. | -suspend The user is a member of the group. He suspends membership, but can regain it at any time again (by -join). | Optionen fuer Verwalter einer Gruppe; diese Kommandos koennen | nur vom Verwalter, Gruppen- oder Systemverwalter aufgerufen | werden. Options for group maintainers; their use is restricted to group maintainers or the system operator. The number of members or invited users for a single group is limited to 200; if an attempt is made to go beyond this limit, any of the following commands will be aborted. | -setup [] | -establish [] Create a new group. Assumes the user is member of less than 16 groups. The group name must be between three and eight characters long; the first character must be a lowercase letter, followed by either lowercase letters or digits. Optionally, a long group name can be entered, it should not contain control characters or a colon. If the long name contains special characters or spaces, it must be quoted. If the name already exists, a new one has to be chosen. If the name is unacceptable from a technical, moral or ethical point of view, the system operator can rename it. | -lname Change the long name (see also -setup). | -dissolve | -liquidate The named group will be cancelled, regardless of any existing members or invited users. | -admin The administration of the named group will be passed to the user `uname' (who must be a member of `gname'). | -invite [ ...] Invite user(s) to a group. | -cancel [ ...] Revert an invitation. | -exclude [ ...] Exclude user(s) from a group. Should better be done in agreement with the user(s). | SEE ALSO | chgrp(1), newgrp(1), groups(1), id(1) | | NOTES Modifications will be announced hourly in the network, and will only take effect after a newgrp(1) or a new login. | BUGS Initial groups (groups where not all members are listed in `xgroup') may be deleted by their respective administrator XXX: i cannot parse the german sentence below without tracking the source code, hence the translation above might be bogus. -- jw | Initiale Gruppen (Gruppen, bei denen nicht alle Bentzer | in 'xgroup' stehen, koennen von deren Verwalter (wenn einer | existiert) geloescht werden. | -- cheers, J"org work: --- no longer --- private: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 06:55:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA24994 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:55:25 -0800 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA24987 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:55:13 -0800 Received: from news.cs.utexas.edu by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxxfv20591; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 09:46:57 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (root@mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by news.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA17229; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:46:05 -0600 Received: from uudell.us.dell.com (uudell.us.dell.com [143.166.224.6]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA03286; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:46:14 -0600 Received: from obiwan by uudell.us.dell.com (5.67/dns1.3) with UUCP id AA23434; Wed, 4 Jan 95 14:41:52 GMT Received: by obiwan.uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #19) id m0rPWmG-000322C; Wed, 4 Jan 95 08:33 WET Message-Id: From: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: Will srcdist for 2.0-941222-SNAP be restored? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:33:28 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (freebsd-hackers) In-Reply-To: <13841.789191369@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 3, 95 07:49:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 617 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'm afraid not. I was just going to go ahead with another snapshot. > Realy sorry for the srcdist not happening, but it was just an unhappy > accident that my src tree got spammed in between making the first > snapshot, seeing that it was bad somehow, and then having the spam > happen right before I had a chance to do another one. Sigh! Is there a time table for the next snapshot? -- Bob Willcox ...!{rutgers|ames}!cs.utexas.edu!uudell!obiwan!bob Austin, TX or try: @uudell.us.dell.com:obiwan!bob 512-258-4224 (home), 512-838-3914 (work) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 07:08:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA25174 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:08:44 -0800 Received: from saul5.u.washington.edu (saul5.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA25167 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:08:38 -0800 Received: by saul5.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW94.10/UW-NDC Revision: 2.32 ) id AA10242; Wed, 4 Jan 95 07:06:55 -0800 X-Sender: spaz@saul5.u.washington.edu Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:06:54 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: Soeren Schmidt Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: /dev/psm0 or where is /src/sys/doc/optios.doc? In-Reply-To: <199501040748.AA16859@dkuug.dk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Soren; On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Soeren Schmidt wrote: > You have to add the psm device to your config file, together with > the ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR option. > pardon my extreme density, but what does the line in the config file look like, exactly???? > This is about to change soon :) > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@kmd-ac.dk) FreeBSD Core Team > So much code to hack -- so little time > .. > thankyou! ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 07:30:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA25515 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:30:14 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA25496 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:29:58 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA21819; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:30:20 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id QAA21877 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:30:19 +0100 Received: by bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA04662; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:17:24 +0100 From: j@uriah.sax.de (J Wunsch) Message-Id: <199501041517.QAA04662@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:17:23 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9501041103.AA07647@fedora.x.org> from "Kaleb Keithley" at Jan 4, 95 06:03:45 am X-Phone: +49-351-8141 137 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 895 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Kaleb Keithley wrote: | | | It turns out that neither flock or fcntl locking works on the floppy | drive device files and by disabling locking entirely mcopy works okay. | The $64,000 question is why doesn't either locking method work? Have | I somehow fubar-ed my kernel config? Is this something that does work | in 2.x? (I'm still using 1.1.5.1 and will be for a while longer) I doubt it works in 2.x. I've noticed that FreeBSD 2's flock() is binary incompatible with FreeBSD 1.1.5's. My older copy of elm refuses to work now under 2.0, i get an `flock: invalid argument'. I hope it isn't intention for FreeBSD 2 to be binary incompatible to its ancestors? :-/ -- cheers, J"org work: --- no longer --- private: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 07:30:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA25509 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:30:05 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA25495 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:29:45 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA21773; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:29:51 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id QAA21866 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:29:50 +0100 Received: by bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA04617; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:11:06 +0100 From: j@uriah.sax.de (J Wunsch) Message-Id: <199501041511.QAA04617@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Subject: Re: Machine state after reboot? To: root@io.cts.com (Morgan Davis) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:11:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041005.CAA09168@io.cts.com> from "Morgan Davis" at Jan 4, 95 02:05:26 am X-Phone: +49-351-8141 137 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 776 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Morgan Davis wrote: | | Many times now after rebooting out of FreeBSD, I've experienced | trouble that required a reset to put the system back into shape. I think the current way of rebooting is rather ugly. If i remember well, cpu_reset() nukes the page table directory(s) or does some other dirty trick causing the cpu to fall over. We should instead use one of the documented methods to reset an AT, e.g. via the keyboard controller. I don't know if any of this will also reset the ISA bus, at least it's much cleaner than only choking the cpu. -- cheers, J"org work: --- no longer --- private: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 07:42:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA25633 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:42:41 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA25627 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:42:39 -0800 From: knight@zko.dec.com Received: from caboom.zko.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/10Aug94) id AA25263; Wed, 4 Jan 95 07:36:50 -0800 Received: by caboom.zko.dec.com (5.65/DEC-SDE-CBM-ULTRIX-10/28/92); id AA01805; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:35:39 -0500 Message-Id: <9501041535.AA01805@caboom.zko.dec.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: knight@zko.dec.com Subject: Soundcard discussion Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 10:35:39 -0500 X-Mts: smtp Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk With the considerable discussion about soundcard support over the last couple of days, I decided to try the sound support for my MV PAS-16 card under 2.0R. I found, as has been stated by various folks, that the card could not be used without running the MV mvsound.sys driver to initialize the card from MS-DOS before attempting to boot FreeBSD. Has anyone gotten the card to initialize from FreeBSD? If so, how? The need to boot MS-DOS before booting FreeBSD seems, to be polite, somewhat less than useful. ---- Dave Knight knight@ka1dt.mv.com (home) knight@caboom.zko.dec.com (work) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 07:45:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA25676 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:45:09 -0800 Received: from epiwrl.entropic.com (root@epiwrl.entropic.com [192.86.164.14]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA25658 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 07:44:38 -0800 Received: from client.entropic.com (sparc10.entropic.com [192.86.164.38]) by epiwrl.entropic.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA24406; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:42:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199501041542.KAA24406@epiwrl.entropic.com> X-Notice: The site "wrl.epi.com" is now known as "entropic.com" To: Paul Traina cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 1995 00:26:00 PST." <199501040826.AAA05168@feta.cisco.com> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 10:42:22 -0500 From: Ken Hornstein Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I've *finally* found (two days ago) some info on programming the bastard, so >in my copious (hah hah hah) free time, I'm going to try again. I'm under the >impression that any I/O to a non-gus address between a certain reset command >and completion locks out initialization changes to the GUS. I find this >difficult to believe, but the first thing to do is change the definition of >OUTB during system initialization because someone made it do an outb() to a >non-GUS location to slow things down... SIGH. :-( Actually, this turns out to be exactly the case. I had a couple of conversations with their tech support, and the reason it was done this was was to prevent accidental re-programming of the IRQ and DMA channels. Their tech support is pretty good, actually, and was able to give me some helpful suggestions for writing a Unix device driver. (The support e-mail address is support@fortech.com). It was a bitch getting it all working, though! I'm surprised Amanacio had to disassemble their init program, as Gravis gives you the source to their SDK library for free. I have a working reset routine (it's for a driver for NetBSD, but I'm sure you won't have a problem just taking the reset stuff). Your welcome to it. --Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 08:12:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA26030 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:12:26 -0800 Received: from lirmm.lirmm.fr (lirmm.lirmm.fr [193.49.104.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA26024 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:12:24 -0800 Received: from lirmm.fr (baobab.lirmm.fr [193.49.106.14]) by lirmm.lirmm.fr (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id RAA21675; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:13:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199501041613.RAA21675@lirmm.lirmm.fr> To: John Utz cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /dev/psm0 or where is /src/sys/doc/optios.doc? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 1995 07:06:54 PST." Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 17:12:57 +0100 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Salut, In the message Re: /dev/psm0 or where is /src/sys/doc/optios.doc?, John Utz wrote : >Hi Soren; > >On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Soeren Schmidt wrote: > >> You have to add the psm device to your config file, together with >> the ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR option. >> > > pardon my extreme density, but what does the line in the config >file look like, exactly???? > Have a look at /sys/i386/conf/LINT PS: The protocol in XF86Config is "ps/2" >****************************************************************************** >* > John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu > idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life > -------- -------- Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr LIRMM, 161 rue Ada, 34392 Montpellier cedex 5 -- France ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 08:32:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA26253 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:32:48 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA26247 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:32:46 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA09246; Wed, 4 Jan 95 10:32:22 -0600 Received: from woody.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.14/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.14)) id AA252817119; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:31:59 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:31:59 -0500 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <199501041631.AA252817119@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by woody.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.14/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.14)) id AA108067117; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 09:31:57 -0700 To: spaz@u.washington.edu Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: (message from John Utz on Tue, 3 Jan 1995 17:43:50 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD on SCHOOL SYSTEMS???? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "John" == John Utz writes: John> How do you keep folks from sticking a boot disk in; John> logging in as root, and spamming the whole system? With careful selection of PC BIOS. On PCs that'll go into a public user area, you should try to find ones where the CMOS setup screen lets you select boot from C: first-or-only, and then password protect the setup. --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 08:56:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA26488 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:56:46 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA26482 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 08:56:43 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA09586; Wed, 4 Jan 95 10:54:29 -0600 Received: from woody.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.14/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.14)) id AA264998466; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:54:26 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:54:26 -0500 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <199501041654.AA264998466@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by woody.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.14/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.14)) id AA108378447; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 09:54:07 -0700 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11724.789169119@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: New adduser script Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> Can it handle sites like freefall, where different groups Jordan> of people get assigned to the end of some range? (e.g Jordan> hackers get the next 6xx uid, WC staff get 2xxx, archive Jordan> maintainers get 1xxx, etc). I have a CD collection: different shelves for Albinoni, Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, Mahler, Mozart, Rachmaninoff, Vivaldi, etc. My Mozart shelf is full. And now I'm adding a new Mozart CD and CD of classical piano with pieces by Beethoven and Rachmaninoff. Kaboom. --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 10:14:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA27759 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:14:04 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27751 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:13:04 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA07065 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:12:02 +0200 Message-Id: <199501041812.UAA07065@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Replicating system. Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 20:12:01 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK - picture the scene; 1) Working 2.x-current system (also in use as a "general hacking" system) 2) 2 SCSI disks (450MB total), 1 SCSI tape, 1 SCSI CDROM, 1 AH1542. 3) 1 Brand new 1GB SCSI disk :) :) :) 4) No (more) money ;-) Now - (thinks) How do I best copy the contents of the two disks to the new SCSI? I have done this before by tar-ing to a tape and restoring, but a file or 10 in /var/... got bust. Same for dump-ing to a tape. I can take out the second drive (/usr/src), but still leaves the problem of how to best get the live /var area over... (I recall that one of the problem files was a socket(?) in /var/run/printer= with mode srwxrwxrwx) I would prefer not to re-install, as this would take a PILE of work to get back to -current. I am reasonably sure that with some concentrated hacking I could get it right, but maybe someone knows a clever trick? If anyone has done this more than I (2x), or more cleverly than I (easy), please let me know how you did it. Thanks! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 10:40:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA28009 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:40:09 -0800 Received: from nomad.osmre.gov (nomad.osmre.gov [192.243.129.244]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28003 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:40:07 -0800 Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by nomad.osmre.gov (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA20467; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:39:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:39:00 -0500 From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199501041839.NAA20467@nomad.osmre.gov> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: make world falls over on ranlib libc.a Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk with error message: ranlib: libc.a: Inappropriate file type or format after //ftp.freebsd.org/pu/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/usr/src.tar.gz; rm -rf /usr/src; gunzip and un-tar into /usr/src; make world; oops, no bsd.info.mk, make mk; make world on a 2.0R system. What am I doing wrong? How can I recover? Glen Foster From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 11:02:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA28163 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:02:06 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA28157 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:02:04 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id UAA11887 ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:02:24 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14980; Wed, 4 Jan 95 20:02:35 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501041902.AA14980@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Replicating system. To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:02:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041812.UAA07065@grunt.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jan 4, 95 08:12:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 705 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Now - (thinks) How do I best copy the contents of the two disks to the > new SCSI? I have done this before by tar-ing to a tape and restoring, > but a file or 10 in /var/... got bust. Same for dump-ing to a tape. cd srcdir; tar cf - . | ( cd /dstdir; tar xvfpB - ) OR cp -pR . /dstdir > (I recall that one of the problem files was a socket(?) in > /var/run/printer= with mode srwxrwxrwx) Doesn't matter, /var/run/printer is recreated at each boot as /var/run is emptied at boot time. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 11:31:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA28470 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:31:14 -0800 Received: from Tut.MsState.Edu (root@Tut.MsState.Edu [130.18.80.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA28464 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:31:12 -0800 Received: from Isis.MsState.Edu (gnh1@Isis.MsState.Edu [130.18.80.11]); by Tut.MsState.Edu using SMTP (8.6.9/6.5m-FWP); id NAA04233; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:30:46 -0600 Received: (gnh1@localhost); by Isis.MsState.Edu (8.6.8.1/6.0c-FWP); id NAA21174; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:30:44 -0600 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:30:44 -0600 (CST) From: GNH1 X-Sender: gnh1@Isis.MsState.Edu To: freebsd-hackers Subject: Console mouse driver? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. I'm a newbie to FreeBSD, from Slackware Linux, and I really, really miss being able to copy&paste on the console with the mouse. Is support for this planned for any time, or are there any patches out there in netland that will allow it? (nope, don't have the ram to run Xwindow). Be happy... ,---------------------------------------------------------------------. |-- Stormy Sebastian Henderson ---------- Mad Coder trying to learn --| |---- Stormy@Mail.Mother.COM -------------- x86 assembly language ----| `---------------------------------------------------------------------' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 11:45:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA28694 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:45:20 -0800 Received: from netcom11.netcom.com (bakul@netcom11.netcom.com [192.100.81.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA28688 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:45:19 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom11.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id LAA29145; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:44:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199501041944.LAA29145@netcom11.netcom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended sound card for 1.1.5.1 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 11:44:06 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Speaking of GUS, can anyone recommend a microphone for it? I would prefer a tiny clip-on kind. Stereo would also be nice but I'll take anything that works with GUS and is cheap. Thanks! Bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 12:03:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id MAA28891 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:03:32 -0800 Received: from foxtrot.innovus.com (foxtrot.innovus.com [192.75.186.38]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA28885 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:03:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199501042003.MAA28885@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by foxtrot.innovus.com (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA05919; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:10:02 -0500 From: Martin Renters Subject: compile problems in /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/doc To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 15:10:02 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Whilst doing a make clean in /usr/src/gnu/libexec/uucp/doc the Makefile wipes out the source files. The source file is called uucp.texi and doing a make clean does rm -f uucp.* among other things...This causes make world to fail. The real problem appears to be in bsd.doc.mk (which is called by bsd.info.mk) in the 'clean' rule. Perhaps someone with a better understanding of the interactions between these files can fix this. Martin From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 12:09:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id MAA29034 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:09:13 -0800 Received: from csugrad.cs.vt.edu (jaitken@csugrad.cs.vt.edu [128.173.41.74]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA29028 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:09:11 -0800 Received: (jaitken@localhost) by csugrad.cs.vt.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) id PAA23435; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:08:38 -0500 From: Jeff Aitken Message-Id: <199501042008.PAA23435@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> Subject: Re: Machine state after reboot? To: root@io.cts.com (Morgan Davis) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:08:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041005.CAA09168@io.cts.com> from "Morgan Davis" at Jan 4, 95 02:05:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1167 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Many times now after rebooting out of FreeBSD, I've experienced > trouble that required a reset to put the system back into shape. I've come to the conclusion that certain components don't get a full reset unless you turn the damn thing off and then back on a few moments later. I've seen the keyboard lock up after using Ctl-Alt-Del to reboot from DOS to FreeBSD, and had other things go wrong after a shutdown -r and tgen booting DOS or NT (like the scsi controller not being found, etc). None of these conditions persist after a full reset. I'm not really sure how the x86 hardware works - what's the difference betewwn Ctl-Alt-Del and pushing the power button? Ideally, both would have the same effect, but that seems to not be the case. Also, when Freebsd halts and says 'press any key to reboot' or whatever, is it doing the same thing as ctl-alt-del? I've noticed problems after this too when I reboot, say, DOS. Now the screwy part is that all of this happens only on my Dad's PC (a Dell 486dx266, Adaptec 2842, #9gxe video card) and it has never happened on my PC (a generic AMD 486dx266, NCR scsi, WD svga card) -- Jeff Aitken jaitken@vt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 12:20:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id MAA29384 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:20:52 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA29356 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:20:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA08391; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:34:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199501041934.VAA08391@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replicating system. Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 21:34:18 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Now - (thinks) How do I best copy the contents of the two disks to the > > new SCSI? I have done this before by tar-ing to a tape and restoring, > > but a file or 10 in /var/... got bust. Same for dump-ing to a tape. > > cd srcdir; tar cf - . | ( cd /dstdir; tar xvfpB - ) OR > > cp -pR . /dstdir OK - this short-circuits the tape out of the loop. What happens to files with multiple links - major waste of disk space? > > (I recall that one of the problem files was a socket(?) in > > /var/run/printer= with mode srwxrwxrwx) > > Doesn't matter, /var/run/printer is recreated at each boot as /var/run > is emptied at boot time. Good to know. What is this anyway? (Iknow, the name says it all, but I cannot fit it into the lpd/lpr/printcap scheme. If its in the man pages, I'll bloody shoot myself...) -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 13:00:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA00141 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:00:59 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00134 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:00:48 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA04453; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 07:56:32 +1100 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 07:56:32 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501042056.HAA04453@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, j@uriah.sax.de Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I've noticed that FreeBSD 2's flock() is binary incompatible with >FreeBSD 1.1.5's. My older copy of elm refuses to work now under 2.0, >i get an `flock: invalid argument'. `struct flock' starts with an off_t, so the struct is totally incompatible with the 1.1.5 version. >I hope it isn't intention for FreeBSD 2 to be binary incompatible to >its ancestors? :-/ The change of `struct stat' due to fatter off_t's and other features is handled by having completely new syscalls for stat, fstat and lstat. Apparently the problem with struct flock was overlooked. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 13:08:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA00276 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:08:28 -0800 Received: from bsd.coe.montana.edu (bsd.coe.montana.edu [153.90.192.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00270 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:08:21 -0800 Received: (nate@localhost) by bsd.coe.montana.edu (8.6.8/8.3) id OAA08866; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:12:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:12:12 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199501042112.OAA08866@bsd.coe.montana.edu> In-Reply-To: Glen Foster "make world falls over on ranlib libc.a" (Jan 4, 1:39pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Glen Foster , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make world falls over on ranlib libc.a Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > with error message: > > ranlib: libc.a: Inappropriate file type or format > > after //ftp.freebsd.org/pu/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/usr/src.tar.gz; > rm -rf /usr/src; gunzip and un-tar into /usr/src; make world; oops, no > bsd.info.mk, make mk; make world on a 2.0R system. > > What am I doing wrong? How can I recover? I added changes to the world target to avoid this problem, but for now you need to re-compile and install 'ar', 'ranlib', and 'nm' and then all should be well. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 13:19:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA00507 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:19:24 -0800 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA00501 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:19:20 -0800 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA04161; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:18:37 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:18:37 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9501042118.AA04161@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Jeff Aitken Cc: root@io.cts.com (Morgan Davis), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Machine state after reboot? In-Reply-To: <199501042008.PAA23435@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> References: <199501041005.CAA09168@io.cts.com> <199501042008.PAA23435@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: > I'm not really sure how the x86 hardware works - what's the difference > betewwn Ctl-Alt-Del and pushing the power button? Quite a lot. The BIOS traps C-A-D and then sends a signal to the keyboard controller, which uses a spare line on one of its I/O ports to pull down the hardware reset line, which (depending on the design of the system) may or may not get propagated to the ISA bus reset line. Pushing the power button actually kills the power to everything. > Also, when > Freebsd halts and says 'press any key to reboot' or whatever, is it > doing the same thing as ctl-alt-del? No. What FreeBSD does is zero the page tables and then do a TLB invalidate. This causes a page directory fault on the next instruction, but since the page-fault handler is no longer mapped (thus causing another page fault), the double-fault handler is invoked, but since we don't provide one & it wouldn't be mapped if it were, the CPU triple-faults and resets itself. This does not perform a reset of any of the hardware in the machine, which doing it ``properly'' might or might not do. Unfortunately, the keyboard controller hack doesn't work on all machines (although it is supposed to), and so WFJ (yes, this is his doing) went this route instead. > I've noticed problems after this > too when I reboot, say, DOS. There are hooks in place to provide a run-down of all configured device drivers. However, the run-down code is not implemented (primarily because the driver authors mostly have not updated their drivers to get the status flag correct), so some devices can be left in funny states. See dev_goawayall() in kern/kern_devconf.c for more information. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 13:24:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA00626 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:24:07 -0800 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00619 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:23:55 -0800 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA00580; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:14:59 GMT Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:14:59 GMT From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199501041614.QAA00580@snoopy.mv.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <14375.789201120@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: FreeBSD (fwd) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: >> Just passing this along. Are there any known problems with the >> newer fdisk? Jordan> No. I'd say his problems are more related to incorrect Jordan> geometry translation. For what it's worth, I just went through the 2.0 install process from the CDROM with floppies from 941204. The only real problem I had was that I could not change a partition size via the menu. I wanted to change my wd0a partition from 14 to 20 MB but the damn menu always made it a "1". No geometry translation here. Did I have to (W)rite the change before it showed in the menu? Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 13:42:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA00919 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:42:22 -0800 Received: from nomad.osmre.gov (nomad.osmre.gov [192.243.129.244]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00913 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:42:19 -0800 Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by nomad.osmre.gov (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA20913; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:40:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:40:51 -0500 From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199501042140.QAA20913@nomad.osmre.gov> To: nate@bsd.coe.montana.edu CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199501042112.OAA08866@bsd.coe.montana.edu> (message from Nate Williams on Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:12:12 -0700) Subject: Re: make world falls over on ranlib libc.a Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:12:12 -0700 > From: Nate Williams > X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) > > > > with error message: > > > > ranlib: libc.a: Inappropriate file type or format > > > > after //ftp.freebsd.org/pu/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/usr/src.tar.gz; > > rm -rf /usr/src; gunzip and un-tar into /usr/src; make world; oops, no > > bsd.info.mk, make mk; make world on a 2.0R system. > > > > What am I doing wrong? How can I recover? > > I added changes to the world target to avoid this problem, but for now > you need to re-compile and install 'ar', 'ranlib', and 'nm' and then > all should be well. > > > Nate Thanks! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 13:51:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA00963 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:51:50 -0800 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA00957 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:51:45 -0800 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA04226; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:51:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:51:02 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9501042151.AA04226@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Mark Murray Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replicating system. In-Reply-To: <199501041934.VAA08391@grunt.grondar.za> References: <199501041934.VAA08391@grunt.grondar.za> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: >> Doesn't matter, /var/run/printer is recreated at each boot as /var/run >> is emptied at boot time. > Good to know. What is this anyway? (Iknow, the name says it all, but I > cannot fit it into the lpd/lpr/printcap scheme. If its in the man > pages, I'll bloody shoot myself...) It's the socket that lpr, lpc, and lpd use to talk to each other... -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 13:58:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA01006 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:58:05 -0800 Received: from hit.fi (hit.fi [193.65.65.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00999 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:57:55 -0800 Received: from localhost (sneits@localhost) by hit.fi (8.6.4/8.6.4) id XAA18961 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:56:53 +0200 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:56:53 +0200 From: Osku Sneits Message-Id: <199501042156.XAA18961@hit.fi> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: No RARP for FreeBSD yet?? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am just wondering if anyone of those skillful hackers out there would be kind enough to do a working rarp or rarpd for FreeBSD? I've got access to some sun3's and would love to boot them off of a FreeBSD with xkernel or such which requires rarp. Would be a *shame* to install a netbsd just for that, wouldn't it? :) If you have information on this, please reply directly as I'm not in the list. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 14:02:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01092 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:02:28 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01085 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:02:25 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA12673 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:02:31 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15267; Wed, 4 Jan 95 23:02:42 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.frmug.fr.net (8.6.9/keltia-uucp-1.21) id VAA04924 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:18:55 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199501042018.VAA04924@keltia.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Typos in bsd.port.mk To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers' list) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:18:53 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1165 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Index: bsd.port.mk =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/share/mk/bsd.port.mk,v retrieving revision 1.94 diff -c -2 -r1.94 bsd.port.mk *** 1.94 1995/01/04 09:58:39 --- bsd.port.mk 1995/01/04 20:16:22 *************** *** 49,54 **** # PATCHDIR - A directory containing any required patches # (default: ${.CURDIR}/patches) ! # SCRIPTDIR - A directory containing any auxilliary scripts ! # (default: ${.CURDIR}/scripes) # FILESDIR - A directory containing any miscellaneous additional files. # (default: ${.CURDIR}/files) --- 49,54 ---- # PATCHDIR - A directory containing any required patches # (default: ${.CURDIR}/patches) ! # SCRIPTDIR - A directory containing any auxiliary scripts ! # (default: ${.CURDIR}/scripts) # FILESDIR - A directory containing any miscellaneous additional files. # (default: ${.CURDIR}/files) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #5: Mon Jan 2 20:26:02 MET 1995 roberto@keltia:/spare/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#250 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 14:09:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01170 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:09:41 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01164 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:09:38 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA12740 ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:09:43 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15332; Wed, 4 Jan 95 23:09:55 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501042209.AA15332@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Replicating system. To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:09:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041934.VAA08391@grunt.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jan 4, 95 09:34:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 981 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > OK - this short-circuits the tape out of the loop. What happens to files > with multiple links - major waste of disk space? No they should be identified as having multiple links are the links will be recreated automatically by tar. > cannot fit it into the lpd/lpr/printcap scheme. If its in the man > pages, I'll bloody shoot myself...) You're dead :-) even if the man page is incorrect on the exact location : /dev/lp* line printer devices /dev/printer socket for local requests /etc/hosts.equiv lists machine names allowed printer access /etc/hosts.lpd lists machine names allowed printer access, but not under same administrative control. The /dev/printer should be /var/run/printer. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 14:10:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01189 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:10:20 -0800 Received: from foxtrot.innovus.com (foxtrot.innovus.com [192.75.186.38]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA01183 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:10:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199501042210.OAA01183@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by foxtrot.innovus.com (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA06213; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:16:12 -0500 From: Martin Renters Subject: Re: make world falls over on ranlib libc.a To: gfoster@osmre.gov (Glen Foster) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 17:16:11 EST Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041839.NAA20467@nomad.osmre.gov>; from "Glen Foster" at Jan 4, 95 1:39 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > with error message: > > ranlib: libc.a: Inappropriate file type or format > > after //ftp.freebsd.org/pu/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/usr/src.tar.gz; > rm -rf /usr/src; gunzip and un-tar into /usr/src; make world; oops, no > bsd.info.mk, make mk; make world on a 2.0R system. > > What am I doing wrong? How can I recover? You need to do: cd /usr/src; make mk; make includes cd /usr/src/usr.bin/ar; make; make install cd /usr/src/usr.bin/ranlib; make; make install Martin From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 14:12:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01211 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:12:32 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01205; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:12:29 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA12744 ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:12:48 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15346; Wed, 4 Jan 95 23:12:59 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501042212.AA15346@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: lpd(8) man page is wrong on socket printer location To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:12:58 +0100 (MET) Cc: bugs@FreeBSD.org (Bugs list FreeBSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 763 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Index: lpd.8 =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/usr.sbin/lpr/lpd/lpd.8,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -c -2 -r1.1.1.1 lpd.8 *** 1.1.1.1 1994/05/26 05:21:52 --- lpd.8 1995/01/04 22:07:46 *************** *** 225,229 **** .It Pa /dev/lp* line printer devices ! .It Pa /dev/printer socket for local requests .It Pa /etc/hosts.equiv --- 225,229 ---- .It Pa /dev/lp* line printer devices ! .It Pa /var/run/printer socket for local requests .It Pa /etc/hosts.equiv -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 14:19:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01366 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:19:49 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01358 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:19:45 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA12768 ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:20:00 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15377; Wed, 4 Jan 95 23:20:11 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501042220.AA15377@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: New adduser script To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:20:11 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Jan 3, 95 03:30:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 663 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > How would you configure an adduser script to be run by a group of > non-root users? Flagging it setuid doesn't seem to work... It will work if you flag it setuid AND use suidperl instead of perl. My script should be setuid-able and I hope secure but I would not recommend that. > BTW, what's the difference between /usr/bin/perl and /usr/bin/suidperl? suidperl makes more checks about security and is specialy designed for suid scripts. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 14:29:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01489 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:29:21 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA01481 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:29:17 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA27785 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:06:53 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA12482; 4 Jan 95 16:06:02 CST (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA12479 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:06:02 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199501042206.QAA12479@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Sounds cards -- take 2 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:06:02 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 339 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK, I went out and got a sound card. Soundblaster Value Edition. $43.00 at the local computer superstore, but I was buying it with store credit from a returned Xmas present. It only accepts IRQ 2 3 4 or 5. I have all of these in use. What sound card can I get that will work at higher IRQs? SB-16? (God *DAMN* IBM for their bus design) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 14:31:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01554 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:31:32 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01548 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:31:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA00633; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:31:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com (Bob Willcox) cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (freebsd-hackers) Subject: Re: Will srcdist for 2.0-941222-SNAP be restored? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 08:33:28 CST." Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 14:31:01 -0800 Message-ID: <632.789258661@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a time table for the next snapshot? "RSN" :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 14:46:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA01825 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:46:56 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01819 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:46:50 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA00788; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:44:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New adduser script In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 11:54:26 EST." <199501041654.AA264998466@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 14:44:31 -0800 Message-ID: <787.789259471@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have a CD collection: different shelves for Albinoni, Bach, > Beethoven, Haydn, Mahler, Mozart, Rachmaninoff, Vivaldi, etc. My > Mozart shelf is full. And now I'm adding a new Mozart CD and CD of > classical piano with pieces by Beethoven and Rachmaninoff. That's incredibly interesting. But what does it have to do with adduser scripts?? :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 15:02:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA02148 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:02:08 -0800 Received: from prosun.first.gmd.de (prosun.first.gmd.de [192.35.150.136]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA02138 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:01:55 -0800 Received: from g386bsd.first.gmd.de by prosun.first.gmd.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15436; Thu, 5 Jan 95 00:00:11 +0100 Received: by g386bsd.first.gmd.de (AAA12942); Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:02:21 +0100 From: Andreas Schulz Message-Id: <199501042302.AAA12942@g386bsd.first.gmd.de> Subject: Re: nfs: how bad is it? To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:02:21 +0059 (MET) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, faulkner@devnull.mpd.tandem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501032139.AA14219@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Jan 3, 95 03:39:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1041 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It is good to be the king! Anyway, access is cool now. But here is one for > you. > > [faulkner@greylan2] /tmp > > ls -l > total 0 > -rw-r--r-- 1 faulkner wheel 0 Jan 4 16:16 bozo > -rw-r--r-- 1 faulkner wheel 0 Jan 4 16:21 bozo1 > -rw-r--r-- 1 haynes wheel 0 Jan 4 16:23 yow > [faulkner@greylan2] /tmp > > ls -la > total 4 > drwxrwxrwx 2 root wheel 512 Jan 4 16:23 . > drwxr-xr-x 17 root wheel 512 Dec 31 18:29 .. > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 0 Jan 4 16:16 bozo > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 0 Jan 4 16:21 bozo1 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 0 Jan 4 16:23 yow > [faulkner@greylan2] /tmp > > Notice how the users change with the simple addition of an a. Make first sure, no alias expansion or something like that hits you :-). In csh and tcsh? you can use a backslash to avoid any alias expansion. ATS ( ats@first.gmd.de or ats@cs.tu-berlin.de ) Andreas Schulz GMD-FIRST 12489 Berlin-Adlershof Rudower Chaussee 5 Gebaeude 13.7 Tel: +49-30-6392-1856/+49-177-2134745 Germany/Europe From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 15:03:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA02184 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:03:14 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA02177 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:03:09 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA28123 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:33:01 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA12838; 4 Jan 95 16:25:47 CST (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA12835; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:25:47 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199501042225.QAA12835@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Replicating system. To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:25:46 -0600 (CST) Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041934.VAA08391@grunt.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jan 4, 95 09:34:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 390 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > OK - this short-circuits the tape out of the loop. What happens to files > with multiple links - major waste of disk space? They get recreated with multiple links. > Good to know. What is this anyway? (Iknow, the name says it all, but I > cannot fit it into the lpd/lpr/printcap scheme. If its in the man > pages, I'll bloody shoot myself...) /var/run/printer is used to talk to lpd. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 15:19:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA02716 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:19:37 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02710 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:19:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01173; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:19:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: GNH1 cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Console mouse driver? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 13:30:44 CST." Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 15:19:02 -0800 Message-ID: <1172.789261542@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm a newbie to FreeBSD, from Slackware Linux, and I really, really miss > being able to copy&paste on the console with the mouse. Is support for this > planned for any time, or are there any patches out there in netland that > will allow it? (nope, don't have the ram to run Xwindow). There is support planned, though I don't now what the current status of it is. Talk to sos@freebsd.org. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 15:49:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA03132 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:49:04 -0800 Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (root@zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA03126 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 15:49:02 -0800 Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA10840 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:48:34 +0100 From: Olof Johansson Received: (offe@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA03125 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:48:14 +0100 Message-Id: <199501042348.AAA03125@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: WD-7000 progress... (help!) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:48:13 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2105 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The current status of the WD-7000 driver is this: Reading and writing from/to character devices is working, at least to some extent. I can read and write my tape without errors (more than the one the streamer itself causes). BUT I have _big_ problems getting it to work with a 105Mb Quantum disk I've borrowed when accessing it as a blockdevice. I haven't added scatter/gather support, I don't know if it may have with it to do. When I do a 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd0f bs=8k count=1000', and thereafter reads it (from the raw device to make sure it isn't garbled when reading) it only contains zeroes in the beginning (the two first blocks written usally), thereafter i get all kind of "garbage", seemingly from other parts of the memory. Sometimes it contains my own environment, other times /etc/group etc etc. In other words there's some pointer wrong somewhere. I've spend two nights debugging, and I can't find anything. :-( Since reading/writing from/to character devices works fine I wonder what the difference is for the driver? I can't see any. All it gets is a chunk of memory and a scsi command to pass to the controller. One thing I observed was that getblk complained about only getting 4k blocks from my minphys. When i changed that, so it could read/write bigger blocks it stopped. Since I don't really know if I did something "illegal" I can't tell if that has anythign to do with my problems. Please, I need some help with this. It's not too easy to help without an own controller, but at least I need these questions answered (if possible). -Olof -------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------------ Olof Johansson | Address: | Phone: +46-10-695-8364 -------------------+ VPL 914 Johansson +------------------------------------ offe@ludd.luth.se | 2 komp, 3 plut | Who is General Failure, and why d92-ojn@sm.luth.se | Box 9106 | is he reading my disk? offe@sdf.luth.se | 961 19 Boden / SWEDEN | (MSDOS - just say NO!) -------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 16:23:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA05257 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:23:14 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA05249 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:23:11 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA02738 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:22:21 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id TAA02567; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:23:13 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199501050023.TAA02567@hda.com> Subject: Re: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! To: pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (william pechter ILEX) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:23:13 -0500 (EST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de, FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501041350.FAA06195@wcarchive.cdrom.com> from "william pechter ILEX" at Jan 4, 95 08:50:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1122 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk william pechter ILEX writes: > > > > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > | > > | > Allright, so what can be done? How can I map out bad sectors on a scsi > > | > drive? Do I have to newfs the drive? > > | > > | Return it to the manufacturer. A good SCSI drive shouldn't develop faults > > | like this, and when it does, it's time to shoot it. > > > > If you don't like this, hook it up to a SCSI adapter with PC BIOS > > enabled, start the BIOS diag (usually g c800:6 or so from a debugger), > > and try to low-level format it. Some people say this causes bad > > sectors to be re-mapped. > > > > Adaptec has a scsi format utility that will do the same thing with > the 154x controllers and probably the other adaptec ones. > > Check their ftp site. And if you type "^A" during boot with a 1542C one of the disk utilities in the firmware will let you reformat the drive. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 -- Formerly hd@world.std.com. E-mail problems? Tell hdslip@iii.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 16:53:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA05748 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:53:25 -0800 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA05740 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:53:20 -0800 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA00378; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:51:25 GMT Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:51:25 GMT From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199501041951.TAA00378@snoopy.mv.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <9501041535.AA01805@caboom.zko.dec.com> (knight@zko.dec.com) Subject: Re: Soundcard discussion Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "knight" == knight writes: knight> With the considerable discussion about soundcard support knight> over the last couple of days, I decided to try the sound knight> support for my MV PAS-16 card under 2.0R. knight> I found, as has been stated by various folks, that the knight> card could not be used without running the MV mvsound.sys knight> driver to initialize the card from MS-DOS before knight> attempting to boot FreeBSD. knight> Has anyone gotten the card to initialize from FreeBSD? If knight> so, how? The need to boot MS-DOS before booting FreeBSD knight> seems, to be polite, somewhat less than useful. I have been using PAS16 on 3 different FreeBSD configurations for over a year with no problems except that warm reboots leaves the card in a sluggish state. I have not had to resort to initializing the card via MSDOS!!!! Tonight I attempted to configure a 2.0R kernel using the same options that worked fine under 1.1.5.1 (excluding all BUT pas) and discovered that I can find no combination of config incantations that produce a /sys/compile/XXX/pas.h file showing NPAS>0. Did something break in the config program? Where is the referenced 'sound.doc'? Is anyone on this list actually running a soundcard under 2.0R? Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 16:54:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA05761 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:54:17 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA05755 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:54:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01472; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:52:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 16:17:23 +0100." <199501041517.QAA04662@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 16:52:42 -0800 Message-ID: <1471.789267162@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've noticed that FreeBSD 2's flock() is binary incompatible with > FreeBSD 1.1.5's. My older copy of elm refuses to work now under 2.0, > i get an `flock: invalid argument'. > > I hope it isn't intention for FreeBSD 2 to be binary incompatible to > its ancestors? :-/ No, definitely not. Take a look at the old flock() system call - it should be compatible! If it's not, it need fixing. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 17:42:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA06781 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:42:21 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA06775 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:42:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01646; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:41:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Glen Foster cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make world falls over on ranlib libc.a In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 13:39:00 EST." <199501041839.NAA20467@nomad.osmre.gov> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 17:41:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1645.789270100@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Rebuild nm. > > with error message: > > ranlib: libc.a: Inappropriate file type or format > > after //ftp.freebsd.org/pu/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/usr/src.tar.gz; > rm -rf /usr/src; gunzip and un-tar into /usr/src; make world; oops, no > bsd.info.mk, make mk; make world on a 2.0R system. > > What am I doing wrong? How can I recover? > > Glen Foster > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 17:43:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA06802 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:43:45 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA06796 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:43:45 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01661; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:42:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, j@uriah.sax.de Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jan 95 07:56:32 +1100." <199501042056.HAA04453@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 17:42:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1660.789270154@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I've noticed that FreeBSD 2's flock() is binary incompatible with > >FreeBSD 1.1.5's. My older copy of elm refuses to work now under 2.0, > >i get an `flock: invalid argument'. > > `struct flock' starts with an off_t, so the struct is totally > incompatible with the 1.1.5 version. But... Didn't the old version of flock() use a different syscall number? We should still be able to deal with the 32 bit off_t in the old syscall.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 17:51:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA06946 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:51:58 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA06940 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:51:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01742; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:50:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Paul F. Werkowski" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 16:14:59 GMT." <199501041614.QAA00580@snoopy.mv.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 17:50:02 -0800 Message-ID: <1741.789270602@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > For what it's worth, I just went through the 2.0 install process > from the CDROM with floppies from 941204. The only real problem > I had was that I could not change a partition size via the menu. > I wanted to change my wd0a partition from 14 to 20 MB but the > damn menu always made it a "1". No geometry translation here. > Did I have to (W)rite the change before it showed in the menu? I suspect that it was full. You need to tear *all* the partitions after an upsized partition down and rebuild them, since install is not (yet) smart enough to ripple down the change. It just runs out of space and balks. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 18:17:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA07464 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:17:12 -0800 Received: from titan.np.ac.sg (titan.np.ac.sg [153.20.24.72]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA07457 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199501050217.SAA07457@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: File Transmission To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:15:26 +0800 (SST) From: SysAdmin - Ng Pheng Siong X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1245 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi. I have just gotten 2.0 on a HP Vectra 486/SX-25. An identical machine runs 1.x unpatched-final-current. The 2.0 machine just came up day before, and I've been configuring things. Somehow, the machine feels slower. Iozone indicates the 2.0 machine gets faster as the file size gets bigger, but things like formatting man pages take very long. Both machines have identical hardware, and both kernels are configured for the barest minimum. Only difference is the 2.0 kernel has mcasting and mrouting. 1.x$ iozone 20 Writing the 20 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...48.633333 seconds Reading the file...86.566667 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 431216 bytes/second for writing the file 242258 bytes/second for reading the file 2.0$ iozone 20 Writing the 20 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...59.734375 seconds Reading the file...43.296875 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 351079 bytes/second for writing the file 484365 bytes/second for reading the file 1.x$ time man netintro 14.78 real 7.58 user 4.01 sys 2.0$ time man netintro 52.76 real 31.24 user 15.62 sys What should I be looking at? TIA. Cheers. - PS From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 18:44:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA08175 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:44:24 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08169 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:44:11 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA01263; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:44:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199501050244.TAA01263@clem.systemsix.com> To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org, fbsd@clem.systemsix.com Subject: Re: Sounds cards -- take 2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 1995 16:06:02 CST." <199501042206.QAA12479@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 19:44:29 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> It only accepts IRQ 2 3 4 or 5. I have all of these in use. The 'lack of available INTerrupts' problem can be solved by stealing one from the high half of the bus. One method I have used in the past is to solder a wire to an unused high-side INT pin on a neighboring board and bring the wire across to the INT jumper on the 8-bit card. Another option is to find an unused 16-bit board (junk pile of local surplus house?) and cut off the high-half fingers with enough room for attaching wires. Plug this in the same slot as the 8-bit card and jumper as above. I once found some nice edge-card plugs that fit right into the C/D slot, with single level .025 posts to accept jumpers, this made for a solution that the hardware guys didn't even laugh at... You might have to hack some code, oftentimes a driver won't accept the fact that it can use a high-side INTerrupt. With any of these methods, be CAREFULL, a short can destroy a motherboard! Don't attempt unless you are comfortable with the idea. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 19:01:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA08357 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:01:15 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA08350 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:01:05 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA07857; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:59:59 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199501050259.SAA07857@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Replicating system. To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:59:58 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041812.UAA07065@grunt.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jan 4, 95 08:12:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2029 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > OK - picture the scene; > > 1) Working 2.x-current system (also in use as a "general hacking" system) > 2) 2 SCSI disks (450MB total), 1 SCSI tape, 1 SCSI CDROM, 1 AH1542. > 3) 1 Brand new 1GB SCSI disk :) :) :) > 4) No (more) money ;-) > > Now - (thinks) How do I best copy the contents of the two disks to the > new SCSI? I have done this before by tar-ing to a tape and restoring, > but a file or 10 in /var/... got bust. Same for dump-ing to a tape. > > I can take out the second drive (/usr/src), but still leaves the > problem of how to best get the live /var area over... > (I recall that one of the problem files was a socket(?) in > /var/run/printer= with mode srwxrwxrwx) > > I would prefer not to re-install, as this would take a PILE of work > to get back to -current. I am reasonably sure that with some concentrated > hacking I could get it right, but maybe someone knows a clever trick? > > If anyone has done this more than I (2x), or more cleverly than I (easy), > please let me know how you did it. I do this kind of stuff all the time. From the above I am going to assume you only have a 2 drive SCSI cable, first thing I would do would be to get me a 3 or 4 drive cable. boot up single user fsck -p mount -a -t ufs prep new disk rm /var/spool/printer (it's just a socket that will get created) or for that matter find / -type s | xargs rm Copy the file systems over root file system over cd /; find . -xdev | cpio --block-size=16 -pdamu /newroot cd /var; find . -xdev | cpio --block-size=16 -pdamuv /newroot/var ... I prefer to use cpio, it just seems to be far more robust about copying filesystems, that and I come from the days before tar ever existed :-), the --block-size things speeds it up considerabley. > > Thanks! > M > -- > Mark Murray > 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa > +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 19:06:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA08451 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:06:01 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA08431 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:05:31 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA07889; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:04:19 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199501050304.TAA07889@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Replicating system. To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:04:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041934.VAA08391@grunt.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jan 4, 95 09:34:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1155 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Now - (thinks) How do I best copy the contents of the two disks to the > > > new SCSI? I have done this before by tar-ing to a tape and restoring, > > > but a file or 10 in /var/... got bust. Same for dump-ing to a tape. > > > > cd srcdir; tar cf - . | ( cd /dstdir; tar xvfpB - ) OR > > > > cp -pR . /dstdir > > OK - this short-circuits the tape out of the loop. What happens to files > with multiple links - major waste of disk space? Thats why I suggest cpio, it will retain the links. Tar should too. > > > (I recall that one of the problem files was a socket(?) in > > > /var/run/printer= with mode srwxrwxrwx) > > > > Doesn't matter, /var/run/printer is recreated at each boot as /var/run > > is emptied at boot time. > > Good to know. What is this anyway? (Iknow, the name says it all, but I > cannot fit it into the lpd/lpr/printcap scheme. If its in the man > pages, I'll bloody shoot myself...) It should be opened by lpd, search for PATH_SOCKETNAME in the lpr souces. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 19:30:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA08916 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:30:45 -0800 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA08908 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:30:42 -0800 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA05086; Thu, 5 Jan 95 04:25:40 +0100 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 04:25:40 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9501050325.AA05086@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: pw@snoopy.MV.COM Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501041951.TAA00378@snoopy.mv.com> (pw@snoopy.MV.COM) Subject: Re: Soundcard discussion Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Paul" == Paul F Werkowski writes: > Tonight I attempted to configure a 2.0R kernel using the same > options that worked fine under 1.1.5.1 (excluding all BUT pas) and > discovered that I can find no combination of config incantations > that produce a /sys/compile/XXX/pas.h file showing NPAS>0. > Did something break in the config program? Where is the > referenced 'sound.doc'? Is anyone on this list actually running a > soundcard under 2.0R? Here is the relevant part of my config file. This works for my PAS16! options "EXCLUDE_MPU401" # NO MPU401 support options EXCLUDE_GUS # NO GUS support options EXCLUDE_GUS_IODETECT # NO GUS io detection options EXCLUDE_SB # NO SB support options EXCLUDE_SB_EMULATION # NO PAS SB emulation support options EXCLUDE_SBPRO # NO SB Pro support options "EXCLUDE_SB16" # NO SB 16 support options "EXCLUDE_YM3812" # NO AdLib support options "EXCLUDE_OPL3" # NO OPL3 chip support device snd3 at isa? port 0x388 irq 10 drq 6 vector pasintr > Paul Jean-Marc -- ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Observatoire de Besancon | F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 20:43:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA19654 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:43:15 -0800 Received: from alpha.dsu.edu (ghelmer@alpha.dsu.edu [138.247.32.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA19648 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:43:14 -0800 Received: (from ghelmer@localhost) by alpha.dsu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA24442; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:42:48 -0600 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:42:48 -0600 (CST) From: Guy Helmer To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Suggestions solicited re: dynam. IP addr w/ sliplogin Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been hacking on sliplogin to dynamically assign IP addresses; it examines /etc/slip.hosts as before, but if it runs into a "group:" that matches a group the current user belongs to, it uses the given remote-addr as a basis for assiging a dynamic SLIP address. I had the "bright idea" that I could just use the assigned SLIP unit # as an offset added to the base remote-addr and then report the address to the user, but I/O to the tty appears to be impossible after the line has been switched to the SLIP line discipline, so under this method I can't tell the user what his/her IP address is... I have implemented another method where a range of addresses is iteratively assigned (base remote-addr + n, where n is from 0 to whatever), but this method will fail should a particular SLIP line stay active until "n" cycles completely around... Might anyone have any thoughts regarding a tidy method of assigning dynamic IP address in sliplogin? I have reviewed someone else's solution (was it Robert Shady's?), but I would like to have a solution completely implemented within sliplogin and be certain it is immune to races. I could add code to sliplogin to review the current state of the SLIP interfaces, but I had been hoping for something "easier" :-) Thanks, Guy Guy Helmer, Dakota State University Computing Services - ghelmer@alpha.dsu.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 20:45:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA19688 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:45:38 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA19682 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:45:31 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA12364; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 15:43:47 +1100 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 15:43:47 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501050443.PAA12364@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, j@uriah.sax.de Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> `struct flock' starts with an off_t, so the struct is totally >> incompatible with the 1.1.5 version. >But... Didn't the old version of flock() use a different syscall >number? We should still be able to deal with the 32 bit off_t in >the old syscall.. No, there is only one flock. Fixing this would break the 2.0 flock :-[. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 20:53:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA20051 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:53:36 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20045 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:53:35 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA02668; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:52:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, j@uriah.sax.de Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Jan 95 15:43:47 +1100." <199501050443.PAA12364@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 20:52:58 -0800 Message-ID: <2667.789281578@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > No, there is only one flock. Fixing this would break the 2.0 flock :-[. BLECH! 4.4's flock should have been assigned a new syscall #. Somebody whack Kirk's fingers.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 21:04:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA24909 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:04:10 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA24903 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:04:09 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02741 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:03:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: RiscCOM / N2 info? Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 21:03:44 -0800 Message-ID: <2740.789282224@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anybody here looked into RiscCOM's N2 board? According to a friend, it's very well documented and comes with a chipset spec from NEC, giving you all you should need to write a driver. These cards would be very nice for running 56K/T1 lines around, and as such are something we should be VERY interested in! I don't know if the rest of the world has chosen ISDN instead, but in the U.S., at least, DDS lines are still a viable option for mid-speed comms. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 21:10:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA25233 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:10:10 -0800 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com ([163.179.3.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA25225 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:10:04 -0800 From: jim.bryant@whytel.com Received: from whytel.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id VAA03529; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:04:15 -0800 Received: by whytel.com id 0T7BF001 Wed, 04 Jan 95 20:47:16 -0600 Message-ID: <9501042047.0T7BF00@whytel.com> Organization: WHY? Telecommunications, Inc. X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.23 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 20:47:16 -0600 Subject: HELP!@# To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Keep up the good work! I am having some problems though... I downloaded the FreeBSD-current src/sys/* tree last nite to see if the vm probs have been fixed yet... I am having a problem accessing my tape drive. Any open op comes back with errno set to 'Device not configured'... I use a Packard-Bell Force 2386 with a 486DX2-66 CPU, and a Colorado Jumbo 120 tape drive, which works fine under 2.0-RELEASE, with the exception of the many 'No pages???' kernel messages that op up every time it's accessed. -- /* rfttest.c */ #include #include #include void main(void) { int rft; if ((rft = open("/dev/rft0", O_RDWR)) == -1) fprintf(stderr, "%s\n", strerror(errno)); else close(rft); } -- Device not configured -- The kernel was compiled with optimization set to: -O2 -m486 -fomit-frame-pointers -- lower optimization settings seem to make no dent into the problems at hand, and -O3 messes up one kernel source file. [i forget which] -- Is 'options MACHVMCOMPAT' now obsolete? Compiling with it seems to cause it's routines to access non-existant proc struct members... -- under 2.0-RELEASE, reboot seems to half of the time sync the disk, then lock-up without dismounting the disk... thus the last warning in the dmesg... -- The speed of the OS seems to be a helluva lot slower than 1.1.5.1, under 1.1.5.1 the nasa/ames pitest program runs in about 350 seconds, but under 2.* it runs in 840+ seconds. I'll upload pitest.tar.gz to: wcarchive.cdrom.com:/pub/incoming/FreeBSD -- config and dmesg follow: -- machine "i386" cpu "I386_CPU" cpu "I486_CPU" ident EndersBox maxusers 32 maxfdescs 2048 timezone 6 dst 5 controller isa0 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr options "COMPAT_43" options "ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR" options BOUNCE_BUFFERS options DODUMP controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 # <<<--- RIGHT WHERE IT BELONGS !!!!! options FDSEEKWAIT="16" device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 12 vector psmintr device lpt0 at isa? port 0x378 tty irq 7 vector lptintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr pseudo-device pty 32 options "NCONS=8" options "STAR_SAVER" options "FADE_SAVER" options "COM_BIDIR" device pca0 at isa? tty pseudo-device speaker pseudo-device ether pseudo-device loop options FIFO options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options SYSVSHM options SHMMAXPGS=64 pseudo-device sl2 pseudo-device ppp2 pseudo-device bpfilter options INET options GATEWAY options MULTICAST options MROUTING options IPMASKAGENT=1 options SUBNETSARELOCAL options "DIRECTED_BROADCAST" options IPBROADCASTECHO=1 options IPFIREWALL options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE options FFS options MSDOSFS options PROCFS options FDESC options QUOTA options FASTLINKS options "UPDATE_INTERVAL=1" pseudo-device log pseudo-device devpager pseudo-device swappager pseudo-device vnodepager pseudo-device gzip options "USER_LDT" options "PANIC_REBOOT_WAIT_TIME=30" config kernel root on wd0 swap on wd0 dumps on wd0 #------------------------------------------------------------------------ FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Wed Jan 4 12:58:09 CST 1995 root@EndersBox.OakTree.Com:/usr/incoming/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/compile/EndersBox.OakTree.Com CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) real memory = 4063232 (992 pages) avail memory = 3002368 (733 pages) using 40 buffers containing 327680 bytes of memory Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <8 virtual consoles> psm0 at 0x60-0x63 irq 12 on motherboard lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16450 pca0 PC speaker audio driver wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 431MB (883624 total sec), 1018 cyl, 14 head, 62 sec, bytes/sec 512 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: [0: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in] <<<<------ Where is it!@#!@#@!#????? npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface bpf: lo0 attached bpf: ppp0 attached bpf: ppp1 attached bpf: sl0 attached bpf: sl1 attached WARNING: / was not properly dismounted ÿ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 21:28:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA25489 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:28:34 -0800 Received: from schizo.coe.montana.edu (schizo.coe.montana.edu [153.90.192.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA25483 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:28:34 -0800 Received: by schizo.coe.montana.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA12971; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:27:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:27:39 -0700 From: osyjm@schizo.coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) Message-Id: <9501050527.AA12971@schizo.coe.montana.edu> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: RiscCOM / N2 info? In-Reply-To: <2740.789282224@time.cdrom.com> References: <2740.789282224@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > Anybody here looked into RiscCOM's N2 board? According to a friend, As an item of note, BSDI recommends this card highly, and is the card of choice for most BSDI ISP's. I wil be able to say more soon, one is on it's way. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 21:42:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA25619 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:42:15 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA25609 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:42:11 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA19004; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:41:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.9/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA00421; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:41:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199501050541.VAA00421@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: jim.bryant@whytel.com cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HELP!@# In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 20:47:16 CST." <9501042047.0T7BF00@whytel.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 21:41:37 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The speed of the OS seems to be a helluva lot slower than 1.1.5.1, under > 1.1.5.1 the nasa/ames pitest program runs in about 350 seconds, but under > 2.* it runs in 840+ seconds. I'll upload pitest.tar.gz to: > wcarchive.cdrom.com:/pub/incoming/FreeBSD > -- > config and dmesg follow: You have absolutely the *weirdest* config file I've ever seen. *Why* do you have all of those options? FASTLINKS? pseudo-device *pager? ...and a whole slew of stuff that you either don't need or don't want. Your performance problems are in part related to this - 4MB machines simply don't have enough memory to support this. > maxusers 32 Why? You need at least 16MB of memory to support that many users effectively. > maxfdescs 2048 Why? - deprecated a long time ago. > timezone 6 dst 5 Why? - deprecated a long time ago. > options BOUNCE_BUFFERS Why? Bounce buffer are only needed on systems with >16MB of memory and SCSI. > pseudo-device pty 32 Why? > options "NCONS=8" This is fine if you plan to use them all, but it requires a lot of memory. On a 4MB machine, *4* is more reasonable. > options SYSVSEM > options SYSVMSG Why? Do you actually have an application that needs Semaphore and SYSV messaging? This code in 2.0 is partly broken anyway. > options SYSVSHM > options SHMMAXPGS=64 Why? You can't possibly be running X in 4MB...do you have an application that needs SYSV shared memory support? > pseudo-device sl2 > pseudo-device ppp2 Why? Are you actually doing *both* SLIP and PPP at the same time on 2 serial ports at the same time? > options QUOTA Why? Do you actually need filesystem quota support? > options FASTLINKS Why? Deprecated a long time ago. > options "UPDATE_INTERVAL=1" Why? This actually will severely lower system performance. > pseudo-device devpager > pseudo-device swappager > pseudo-device vnodepager Why? Deprecated a long time ago. > pseudo-device gzip Okay if you plan to use it, but not normally necessary. > options "USER_LDT" Only needed for WINE support. > real memory = 4063232 (992 pages) > avail memory = 3002368 (733 pages) This is you problem. Basically, you're trying to generate a kernel that requires much more memory to work efficiently than you have. The reason that your program runs so slowly is that 1) The minimum 2.0 kernel is much larger than than the 1.1.5 kernel, and 2) you have a fat bloated kernel with options that most people will never use. I suggest that you start with the GENERIC kernel config file, remove device support that you don't need, and build a small custom kernel. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 21:44:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA25700 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:44:11 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA25694 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:44:11 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02894; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:43:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: osyjm@schizo.coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: RiscCOM / N2 info? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 95 22:27:39 MST." <9501050527.AA12971@schizo.coe.montana.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 21:43:35 -0800 Message-ID: <2893.789284615@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I wil be able to say more soon, one is on it's way. May I ask what you plan to do with it? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 21:49:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA25855 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:49:51 -0800 Received: from schizo.coe.montana.edu (schizo.coe.montana.edu [153.90.192.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA25849 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:49:50 -0800 Received: by schizo.coe.montana.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13054; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:48:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:48:54 -0700 From: osyjm@schizo.coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) Message-Id: <9501050548.AA13054@schizo.coe.montana.edu> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: osyjm@schizo.coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen), hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: RiscCOM / N2 info? In-Reply-To: <2893.789284615@time.cdrom.com> References: <9501050527.AA12971@schizo.coe.montana.edu> <2893.789284615@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > I wil be able to say more soon, one is on it's way. > > May I ask what you plan to do with it? Slap it in a box running BSD/OS and get rid of an overpriced Cisco. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 21:54:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA25902 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:54:00 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA25894 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:53:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02980 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:53:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: guest account: Yggdrasil information Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 21:53:31 -0800 Message-ID: <2979.789285211@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This will take a little while to read and believe me, I know how much mail most of you get, but it's nonetheless worth slogging all the way through it. Yes, most of it is unabashed sales hype. Ignore that and concentrate on the features list. I have this CD and it's not lying about the degree of flexibility it provides. NetBSD is not the competition. This is. When and where we can match some of these features (and I not only think we can, I KNOW we can!), we should strive to do so! I certainly will be! Thanks! Jordan ------- Forwarded Message Subject: Yggdrasil information YGGDRASIL PLUG-AND-PLAY LINUX SUMMER 1994 CONTENTS: Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. Executive Summary 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 New Features San Jose, CA 95129-1034 About The Company (408) 261-6630, fax (408) 261-6631 Highlights info@yggdrasil.com Product Philosophy What Makes Plug-and-Play Linux Easy To Use? Software Version Numbers Hardware Compatability How to get a free copy How to get a copy by tomorrow Subscriptions Upgrades and Crossgrades The Linux Bible OSF/Motif Resellers and Technical Support Vendors Wanted Technical Support Direct sales order form EXECUTIVE SUMMARY 17 MAY 1994 SAN JOSE, California---Yggdrasil Computing, Incorporated has shipped a Linux-based operating system release that includes a fully buildable source tree, hybrid hard disk/CDROM installation, and numerous automated internet connectivity features, including graphical SLIP configuration and automated delivery of outgoing mail to the internet through a relay machine set up for this purpose at Yggdrasil. The new $39.95 release has actually been shipping since May 12, but Yggdrasil delayed announcing until it could fill unexpectedly large advance orders from resellers who had been given advance product information. The company now expects to have a unit volume for this release of at least one quarter that of Novell UnixWare. Yggdrasil also expanded its product line with OSF/Motif for Linux and an eight hundred page book entitled "The Linux Bible" that includes the collected works of the Linux Documentation Project, which is not part of Yggdrasil, but which will receive a donation of one dollar per copy, plus a second dollar on direct sales. In addition, $5 per copy of OSF/Motif will be donated to the development of a free Motif clone, which is the subject of a separate announcement. For more information, contact Cyndi June at (408) 261-6630, fax (408) 261-6631, or send email to info@yggdrasil.com. PRESS CONTACT: Adam J. Richter (408) 261-6630 NEW FEATURES ARCHITECTURAL o FULLY BUILDABLE SOURCE TREE. Rebuild the whole system with "cd /usr/src ; make install-clean". Use the new "whence" command find source code for a file. For example: % whence csh /usr/bin/tcsh: linux dynamically linked /usr/bin/tcsh installed from /usr/src/usr.bin/tcsh-6.04/tcsh o HYBRID INSTALLATION. Any software not found on your hard disk is run from the CDROM if the CD is mounted. Useful for infrequently used programs or for trying out software before deciding whether or not to install it. o TRANSPARENT COMPRESSION. CD looks like a 1GB+ filesystem. PERFORMANCE o SCSI clustering, multisector IDE (turned off by default). Most binaries, including the entire X window system, the kernel, the C compiler, and emacs compiled with "-O6." SCSI clustering alone seems to have reduced the build time on the source tree on a 486DX2-66 from 28 hours to 22. o Cd dependent installation now puts the shared C library and bash on the hard disk, accelerating execution of almost all binaries and shell scripts. CD dependent configuration now uses 4MB of disk and is actually a bit of a misnomer because you *can* run it without the CD mounted, although you will be able to do little more than mount the CD. INTERNET CONNECTIVITY o INTERNET SHELL ACCESS up to 1 month or $40 (about 20 hours) with a major New England internet provider. If you're not in New England, you can save on the long distance charges by using the CompuServe from most populated areas of the world. (CompuServe-Net, AT&T and other phone bills are *not* included in the free service). You must be 18 or older, because the service has some "adult" areas. You must sign the credit card authorization for usage after the first $40 or first month, although it is perfectly OK to cancel after your free time has expired. o ET PHONE HOME. The system automatically delivers internet mail through the Yggdrasil BBS! (Of course, people cannot reply to your email.) The install script even attempts to figure out where your modem is. You must have UUCP installed or accessible from the CDROM, and you must have the system installed on your hard disk. Configuring ethernet with the graphical control panel switches internet email to direct delivery. This release should make it easy for anyone to send email to the internet. o Graphical control panels for incoming InterNetNews (NNTP), outgoing UUCP, and serial internet connections by SLIP or CSLIP, preconfigured with sample values, so you just change a few fields and press "save." This should save you a lot of time and work if you're connecting to the internet. These are in addition to the existing graphical control panels. Screen snapshots in that illustrate the graphical control panel and multimedia email features are FTPable from yggdrsail.com: X windows screen dumps: ftp.yggdrasil.com:pub/pictures/*.xwd View with "xwud -in file.xwd" GIF files: ftp.yggdrasil.com:pub/pictures/*.gif View with "display *.gif" (if you use ImageMagic), or "xv *.gif" (if you use xv). You can also have these images shown on your internet color X display by logging into yggdrasil.com as "rdemo". o MULTIMEDIA EMAIL. When you log in as "guest", and start X windows, you are reminded to read multimedia email with Andrew "messages", which comes preconfigured with a sample multimedia email message. The message includes hyperlinks to some documentation and a picture of Saturn. Multimedia email is delivered just like regular email, so you can, for example, send mail to the internet and they will be routed through the Yggdrasil BBS for delivery. If you've put off learning a multimedia email system, this is an easy way to take the plunge. MISCELLANEOUS o Linux 1.1 kernel, X11R5 Xfree86 2.1 installed plus pristine X11R6 (Xfree86 3.0) tar files, GCC 2.5.8, libc 4.5.26. o A response card for a free copy THE LINUX JOURNAL. o MOTIF: Locked copy of MetroLink Motif on the CD (also available on floppies) costs $149.95 per CPU. For each copy that we sell, $5 is donated to the development of a free motif clone. Ours is the only Linux Motif with a simple no-nonsense license statement instead of one of those ridiculous shrinkwrap licenses. PRICE CUT o $49.95 --> $39.95. Reseller prices cut too. o Upgrade or crossgrade. Send us a complete copy of any previous Yggdrasil release and deduct another $10 from your order. Alternatively, deduct $10 if you send us a complete copy of any competing product *and* tell us where you bought it so that we can make sure that your favorite computer store also carries our products. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 408-261-6630, fax 408-261-6631, info@yggdrasil.com. ABOUT THE COMPANY In December 1992, Yggdrasil published the first free operating system CDROM ever. Since then, Yggdrasil distributions have been the first operating sytems to include as standard the ability to run directly from CDROM, multimedia facilities (editting, mail, sound IO), "fill in the blanks" graphical control panels for system administration, and now, with the Summer 1994 release, reconfigurable hybrid hard disk/CDROM installation, transparent decompression of the CDROM, and numerous automated internet connectivity features, including graphical SLIP and InterNetNews configuration, automated email configuration, and automatic routing of outgoing internet mail through the Yggdrasil bulletin board system. Yggdrasil releases have only about a quarter of the unit volume of Novell UnixWare or NeXTStep, but Yggdrasil is catching up, and has already passed many smaller operating systems. Yggdrasil's growth helps the free software community. To help fund the Free Software Foundation, Yggdrasil resells FSF manuals. Yggdrasil funded improvements in the seagate SCSI driver, and the development of the z5380 scsi driver used in Trantors and adapted by others to the MediaVision ProAudioSpectrum-16. These improvements were returned to Linus Torvald's Linux kernel distribution. Yggdrasil made the deals that insured freeness of the iso9660 filesystem writer and Mitsumi CDROM programming information. $1 The Linux Bible's price supports the Linux Documentation Project. $5 per copy of Motif purchased from Yggdrasil goes to the development of a free Motif clone. Yggdrasil supports the future of free software, part of which involves creating the world's best operating system. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 408-261-6630, fax 408-261-6631, info@yggdrasil.com. HIGHLIGHTS Linux 1.1 kernel supporting most popular CDROM drives, an easy-to-use installation script, plus a graphical user interface for system configuration, The X Window System: X11R5 Xfree86 2.1 installed plus the pristine X11R6 distribution tar files. Xlib/Xt X windows libraries, the Tcl/Tk programming language and toolkit, the Xview 3.2 OpenLook(tm) toolkit, InterViews C++ toolkit, The Andrew System: version 6.2, including the ez editor for easy creation and reading of documents with imbedded images, equations, spreadsheets, hypertext links, and many other media types. Networking with TCP/IP, NFS and other Internet protocols. Games: asteroids, battle zone, chess, mille bornes, othello, pool, shogi, solitaire, tetris, and connect four. Multimedia: viewers for JPEG, GIF, TIFF and other image formats, MPEG video, sound, Text editors: the elvis vi clone, GNU Emacs with calc mode, and Lucid GNU Emacs (better graphical user interface). Desktop Publishing: TeX and groff typesetting packages with X previewers, and ghostscript, a postscript interpreter for X windows, faxes and a variety of printers, Telecommunications: Z-modem, Taylor UUCP, mail reader, threaded USENET News reader, with support for reading MIME multimedia messages with imbedded images, full motion video and sound. the Postgres 4.1 remote database system, Programming Languages: GNU C++, GNU ANSI C, FORTRAN-to-C and Pascal-to-C translators, and Prolog, Enhanced development environment: GNU debugger, bison, flex, GNU make, the GNU Coverage Tool, Revision Controls System, Concurrent Version System, and Gnats, System V-style shared memory and interprocess communication, File Systems: a filesystem with long file names, symbolic links, and FIFO's, System V, DOS, and iso9660/rockridge CDROM filesystems. Emulators: a BIOS emulator that can run DOS, an experimental ELF loader, and a snapshot of the WABI Windows emulator under development. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 408-261-6630, fax 408-261-6631, info@yggdrasil.com. PRODUCT PHILOSOPHY At each level of user sophistication, Plug-and-Play Linux offers useful capabilities found in few other operating systems, including other Linux distributions.[1] At the top of the sophistication hierarchy, programmers who want to explore or add the occasional feature know that Yggdrasil is the Linux distribution with a fully buildable source tree and with the ability to automatically trace installed files back to their sources. Can you imagine recompiling the whole operating system to use a new compiler optimization or binary format on a distribution without a buildable source tree? Users who want maximum performance will appreciate that the major system components have been recompiled with "-O6" optimization, and the SCSI clustering which reduces the build time on the source tree from 28 to 22 hours (over 20%) on 486DX2-66. Using IDE? Activate the multisector IDE code! New users or will appreciate the our 94 page manual, the largest of any Linux distribution, complete with screen snapshots of the install process, charts on hardware, software options, device names, and tips on hardware troubleshooting, among other things. The manual is also FTPable from yggdrasil.com:/pub/summer94/manual/*. A characteristic that benefits everybody, but is especially important to new users and users who value their time highly, is plug-and-play installation, which is the subject of the next section: "What Makes Plug-and-Play Linux So Easy To Use?" [1] Due credit: This philosophy was inspired by Guy Kawasaki's description of "deep" products in his concise insightful book, "The Macintosh Way." Boycott Apple, but read this book. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 408-261-6630, fax 408-261-6631, info@yggdrasil.com. WHAT MAKES PLUG-AND-PLAY LINUX SO EASY TO USE? Everybody, especially new users, will appreciate the Plug-and-Play operation for which our product is named. Put the media in a computer with supported hardware, turn the computer on, and it's running everything, straight from the CDROM. Unlike other Linux distributions, Plug-and-Play Linux automatically figures out what kind of CDROM is on the system, and uses it. The login screen lists a number of preconfigured user names, including "install", which installs the system, giving paragraphs of explanation about every question that it asks the user. The install script even searches for a modem, and, upon finding it, configures mail and UUCP so that mail sent to an internet address is transparently delivered through a bulletin board system at Yggdrasil. X windows configuration is automated too, prompting the user for configuration information the first time "xinit" is run. The configuration script automatically chooses sensible defaults based on what type of video display and what type of mouse, if any, the kernel detected at start-up. From X windows, a graphical control panel allows simple "fill in the blanks" configuration of networking, SLIP, outgoing UUCP, the printer, NNTP, and many other features that previously required the knowledge of a system administrator to configure. Even day to day operating is simpler with Plug-and-Play Linux. A computer should not ask you for information that it can easily figure out for itself. With Plug-and-Play Linux, when you mount a device without specifying the filesystem type, the system automatically figures out what kind of filesystem is on the device and uses it. Device drivers in Plug-and-Play Linux don't print messages announcing the absence of hardware that you don't have, and they don't interrupt you with information about routine retries (turning on debugging will, of course, make both of these things happen). Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 SOFTWARE VERSION NUMBERS San Jose, CA 95129-1024 (408) 261-6630, fax(408) 261-6631 info@yggdrasil.com Here is a list of version numbers of most software packages in Plug-and-Play Linux. A complete "ls -lR" of the CDROM is FTPable from yggdrasil.com:pub/summer94/ls-lR. acct-1.3 gnuchess-4.0.pl68 reve-1.4.0 adagio-0.4o gnugo-1.1 rlogin-5.33 agrep-2.04 gnuplot-3.5 rlogind-5.53 andrew-6.2 gnushogi-1.1 routed-5.23 archie-1.4.1-FIX grep-2.0 rpc-1.00 at-1.1 groff-1.09 rsh-5.24 auis-6.2 gwm-1.7o rshd-5.38 aumix-0.2 gzip-1.2.4 ruptime-5.70 autoconf-1.9 hfs-0.2 rwho-5.50 bash-1.13.5 host-1.01 rwhod-5.19 bbgopher-1.6 ibcs-940419 sed-2.03 bc-1.02 ifs-5 shellutils-1.9.4 bin86-0.1 ImageMagic-2.3.2 smail-3.1.28 bind-4.83l inetd-5.30 smalltalk-1.1.1 binutils-1.9l.3 inn-1.4 sound-2.4 bison-1.22 InterViews-3.1 sox-7 blt-1.5 ismodem-1.00 strace-2 bootlin-4 ispell-4.0 syslogd-5.27 bootpd-2.10a itcl-1.3 talk-5.50a byacc-1.9 IV-2_6 talkd-5.80 capture-1.00 joystick-0.7 tar-1.11.2 cbzone-1.00 jpeg-4a tcl-7.3 cdwrite-1.0 kbd-0.86 tclX-7.3a checker-0.4 kterm-5.2.0 tcpd-1.40 checklinks-1.00 ld.so-1.4.3 tcsh-6.04 cluster-1.00 lemacs-19.9 telnet-5.52 cpio-2.3 less-177 term-1.1.4 cron-2.0 lha-1.00 texinfo-3.1 cvs-1.3 libc-4.5.26 textutils-1.9 dc-0.2 libc_s-940330 tftp-5.10 dejagnu-1.2 libg++-2.5.3 tftpd-5.13 devX100-12 lilo-14 tiff-3.2beta devX75-12 linux-1.1 time-1.5 diffutils-2.6 lpd-5.90 tk-3.6p1 dip-3.3.7-lilo-3.2 m4-1.1 tkinfo-0.6 dlltools-2.11 mailx-5.3b tknews-1.2b dosemu-0.50pl1 majordomo-1.62 tput-1.0 dosfsck-1.0 make-3.70 trn-3.2 double-0.0 malloc-930716 UIT-3 dvips-5.518 man-1.1 umsdos-0.2 e2fsprogs-0.5 metamail-2.6 usermaint-1.0 elm-2.4 minicom-1.60 util-linux-1.5 elvis-1.7 mkdosfs-0.2 uucp-1.04-doc emacs-19.22 mkisofs-1.01 uucp-1.04-erc f2c-1994.April.20 mm-1.07 uuencode-1.0 file-1.25 modutils-0.99.14 vacation-1.00 fileutils-3.9 mpeg-1.2 wais-8-b5.1 find-3.8 mule-1.0.01 wdiff-0.04 finddev-1.0 ncompress-4.2.4 wine-940412 finger-5.22 ncurses-1.8.5 WorkBone-0.1 fingerd-5.60 net-0.32 wu-ftpd-2.1c fips-0.8 nfsd-1.50 x-11r5 flex-2.4.6 nntpd-15.11a x-11r6 fromto-1.01 oleo-1.5 xaster-1.00 ftape-0.9.10 olvwm-3.3 xbmbrowser-2.0 ftp-5.38 p2c-1.20 xboard-3.0.pl9 fvwm-1.21c patch-2.1 xdos-0.3f gas-2.2 pbmplus-10dec91 xfree86-2.1 gawk-2.15.4 pcnfsd-1.40 xfree86-3.0 gcc-2.5.8 perl-4.036 xgopher-1.3.2 gct-1.4 pine-3.89 xpipeman-1.01 gdb-4.12 ping-5.90 xpm-3.2f gdbm-1.7.1 poeigl-1.11 xpool-1.3 ghostscript-2.6.1pl4 popd-10.01 xrisk-2.14 ghostview-1.5 postbrowse-0.1 XSBprolog-1.2 gic-1.1 postgres-4.1 xshogi-1.1 glib-1.9e procps-0.94 xtank-1.3f gmod-1.0 quota-1.31 xtetris-2.5.2 gmp-1.3.2 rcp-5.32 xvier-1.0 gn-1.19 rcs-5.6.0.1 xview-3.2 gnat-1.78 readlink-1.00 zlibc-0.3 gnats-3.2 realpath-1.0 Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. HARDWARE COMPATABILITY 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 PLUG-AND-PLAY LINUX San Jose, CA 95129-1024 SUMMER 1994 (408) 261-6630, fax(408) 261-6631 info@yggdrasil.com System RAM: 4MB (8MB without swap partition), CPU: 386 or above, Bus: ISA, EISA, or localbus. Disk IDE, RLL, MFM, ESDI, SCSI @strong{with supported SCSI controller}. Configurations range from 3 to 1,028 megabytes of disk. Configurations without non-kernel source tree that can run without the CDROM range from 35 to 300 megabytes. Hard disk can be shared with other operating systems on separate partitions. Tape SCSI tape with supported SCSI controller. Experimental (i.e., unsupported) driver for floppy tape. CDROM Sony CDU-31A, SoundBlaster-compatible CDROM's, Mitsumi, any SCSI CDROM with supported SCSI controller, experimental Sony 531 and 535 driver. SCSI Adaptec 154x, and 174x in enhanced mode, Bustek 542B, Future Domain 8xx, or 16xx, other controllers based on the TMC-950 chip, Ultrastor, Trantor T128. Experimental: other Trantors, Always in-2000, Adaptec AIC 6260 ship (151x/152x boards), Seagate ST-01/ST02, MediaVision and Creative Labs sound cards. Video (For X windows.) 640x480 16-colors for any VGA card, 256 colors and resolutions up to 1280x1024 (for sufficiently fast hardware) for the following chipsets: S3 801/805/911/924/928, 8514, Tseng ET3000/ET4000, Oak oti-067/077/087, Western Digital 90c00/90c10/90c30/90c31, Genoa, ATI Mach8/Mach32, Trident 8900b/c/cl/cs, Cirrus Logic 5420/5422/5426/62x5, NCR 77c22/77c22e, or Compaq AVGA. Hercules monochrome. Diamond cards not supported. Sound Adlib, SoundBlaster, MediaVision, and compatibles. Installable Gravis Ultrasound and MPU-401 drivers are also included. PC speaker is used if sound card is not present. Ethernet Novell NE1000/NE2000/NE2100, 3Com 3c501, 3c503, 3c509, 3c579, AT1500, T1700, D-Link DE600 pocket adapter and ethernet II, AT-LAN-TEC/RealTek pocket adapter, Artisoft LANtastic AE-2, Alta Combo, Cabletron, Hewlett-Packard 27245, 27247, 27250 and PCLAN, Western Digital 8003 and 8013, other 8390-based ethernet cards. HOW TO GET A FREE COPY Yggdrasil is greatly indebted to the many free software developers whose efforts have made this release possible. As a token of our appreciation, any author of any software or documentation in Plug-and-Play Linux can get a free copy. Operators of free Linux BBS's or Linux FTP sites and other major contributors to the Linux community can also get a free copy. We request that Linux BBS operators and FTP sites carry the Plug-and-Play Linux announcement in the appropriate forums, however this request is optional. HOW TO GET A COPY BY TOMORROW [updated 2 June 1994] Plug-and-Play Linux costs $39.95 is and available directly from Yggdrasil or from your local computer, software or technical book store. If Plug-and-Play Linux is not available from your favorite reseller, help promote Linux by making it your mission to change that. Give your reseller our phone number and demand that they carry Plug-and-Play Linux. If you live in the United States, the $5 shipping and handling charge on direct orders includes Second Day Air delivery. For only another $1 you can get Next Day Air delivery, which means that if your order is received before 3:30pm Pacific Time (6:30pm Eastern Time), you can have Plug-and-Play Linux in your hands the next business morning. This $1 shipping upgrade does not apply to orders that include the Linux Bible. For those orders, the total shipping charge for Next Day Air Delivery is $11 (i.e., $6 extra). To order, call (800) 261-6630 or fax the attached order form to (408) 261-6631. International orders take more than a day of course, and shipping is $10. To place an international order, call (408) 261-6630, fax to the order form to (408) 261-6631, or send email to orders@yggdrasil.com. SUBSCRIPTIONS Plug-and-Play Linux is released quarterly. Update subscriptions are available and start with the release following the release that is current when your subscription order is received. For example, an update subscription ordered today would begin with the Fall 1994 release. Prices for update subscriptions are as follows: 1 year (4 releases) $ 99.95 2 years (8 releases) $179.95 3 years (12 releases) $249.95 UPGRADES AND CROSSGRADES Yggdrasil offers a $10 discount for upgrades or crossgrades. Send us your old Yggdrasil release and a check for $29.95 + $5 shipping and handling to upgrade. Or do the same, but send us a competing distribution such any version of SCO, Esix, minix, or one of the CD's with the slackware floppy images, and tell us where you got it, so that we can make sure that your favorite reseller carries our products too. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 THE LINUX BIBLE San Jose, CA 95129-1024 (408) 261-6630, fax(408) 261-6631 info@yggdrasil.com The Linux Bible is a compendium of documents produced by The Linux Documentation Project, a group of volunteer Linux developers. The Linux Bible also includes a copy of the Yggdrasil Plug-and-Play Linux manual. These documents in the Linux Bible include "Linux Installation and Getting Started", "Networking Administator's Guide", "Kernel Hackers Guide", and "How To" guides on the following subjects: o Hardware Compatibility o Linux Distributions o DOS Emulation o Ethernet o Floppy Tape o Installation o Mail o Linux Networking Version 2 o MGR Graphics System (an alternative to X windows) o X-windows o Usenet News o Printing o SCSI o Serial o Sound o UUCP The Linux Bible is printed entirely on recycled paper, and has the green recycled paper logo printed on the back cover. The back cover also has quotations from the PC Week article naming Linux as product of the week. The front of the Linux Bible has artwork that is almost identical to Plug-and-Play Linux, so the two products are a matched set. The back cover has both UPC and ISBN barcodes for easy inventory management. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 OSF/Motif 1.2.x San Jose, CA 95129-1024 (408) 261-6630, fax(408) 261-6631 info@yggdrasil.com Yggdrasil Computing resells OSF/Motif 1.2.3 and donates $5 per copy to the development of a free Motif clone. We are in contact with developers in Protvino, Russia. Our business plan for Motif development is still in its formulative stages, and calls for sending these developers three Linux workstations and paying them salaries of approximately $200 per month for two years. If your organization would like to become involved in funding this work, please contact us and perhaps we can develop a more formal consortium to run and publicize this project. Besides currently being the only distribution that supports the development of a free Motif clone, our distribution is also the only one with a simple no-nonsense license statement instead of those ridiculous ``shrink wrap'' licenses that cast a legal shadow over any type of reverse engineering. Our no nonsense license statement reads as follows: OSF/Motif is proprietary software. Copying of this software is restricted by United States copyright law and international treaties. Therefore, you must treat this software just like a book, with the following single exception. You are authorized to make archival copies of this software for the sole purpose of backing-up the software to protect your investment from loss. For the purposes of this license, ``just like a book'' means, for example, that this software may be used by any number of people and may be freely moved from one computer location to another so long as there is no possibility of it being used at one location while it's being used at another. Just like a book that can't be read by two different people in two different places at the same time, neither can the software be used by two different people in two different places at the same time. The version of Motif that we currently resell is OSF/Motif 1.2.3 from MetroLink. The package consists of four floppy disks and five pages of installation notes in a sealed Mead ``envelok'' folder. We are developing nicer packaging. There is also a locked copy of OSF/Motif on the Yggdrasil Plug-and-Play Linux distribution. Yggdrasil Computing, Inc. 4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205 San Jose, CA 95129-1024 (408) 261-6630, fax(408) 261-6631 info@yggdrasil.com RESELLERS AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT VENDORS WANTED Yggdrasil Computing is always looking for resellers and technical support vendors. If you would like to carry or offer services for our products, please contact us by any convenient method. TECHNICAL SUPPORT Yggdrasil Computing offers an extensive array of technical support services, detailed below. In addition, we also sell "The Linux Bible", an 800+ page book, which is comprised of the works of the Linux Documentation Project, including 16 "How To" guides on hardware compatability, linux distributions, dos emulation, ethernet, floppy tape, installation, mail, networking version 2, MGR graphics system, X-windows, usenet news, printing, SCSI, serial, sound, and uucp. Service Price Consulting Hotline $2.95/minute 1-900-446-6075 ext. 835 ("TEK") $2.95/minute, USA only 10am-noon,1:45pm-5pm Pacific Fixed Price Hotline* $25 per call Personal Technical Support $100 for 1 year or 1 engineer-hour Business Technical Support [machines+people+contacts] x $60/month Releases On Demand $500 General Technical Services $300/engineer-hour Development Contracts $400/estimated engineer-hour *New experimental service. The Plug-and-Play Linux manual lists vendors offering support services related to the Yggdrasil Linux/GNU/X distribution. If you or your business would like to offer a service related to Plug-and-Play Linux, send a description of your business and contact information to adam@yggdrasil.com. DIRECT SALES ORDER FORM SHIP TO: ______________________________ ______________________________ DAYTIME PHONE: _______________ ______________________________ EMAIL: _______________________ ______________________________ Item Quantity Price(US$) Plug-and-Play Linux ____ X $39.95 = $_______ (CDROM, 3.5" boot floppy, 90 page manual) Update Subscriptions starting with following release): 1 year update subscription (4 releases) ____ X $99.95 = $_______ 2 year update subscription (8 releases) ____ X $179.95 = $_______ The Linux Bible (800 pages: kernel hacking, ____ X $39.95 = $_______ networking, installation, over a dozen "How To" guides, and more!) OSF/Motif for Linux ____ X $149.95 = $_______ For Walnut CDROM titles, call. Prime Time Freeware for unix ____ X $59.95 = $_______ Double speed CDROM drive and controller ____ X $199.95 = $_______ Personal Technical Support ____ X $100.00 = $_______ (1 year/1 engineering hour) SUBTOTAL $_______ California residents add 7% to help out with sales tax $_______ Shipping & handling (US: $5, elsewhere: $10) $_______ TOTAL $_______ Payment method: __ payment enclosed __ COD (USA only) __ credit card (America Express or Optima. Call before using VISA, Mastercard or other credit card.) Your name as it appears on credit card: _______________________________ Brand of credit card: ________ Card number: _________________________ Signature:______________________________________ Expiration: ___ / ___ SHIPPING ADDRESS MUST MATCH CREDIT CARD BILLING ADDRESS Offers subject to change without notice. For direct sales, you can return this software within 30 days for a full refund. Beyond that, THERE IS NO OTHER WARRANTY FOR ANY OF THIS SOFTWARE. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 22:09:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA26208 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:09:36 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA26198 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:09:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA13825; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 08:04:34 +0200 Message-Id: <199501050604.IAA13825@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Joe Greco , kurto@tiny.mcs.usu.edu (Kurt Olsen), Garrett Wollman , roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT), Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replicating system. Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 08:04:34 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Now - (thinks) How do I best copy the contents of the two disks to the > > new SCSI? I have done this before by tar-ing to a tape and restoring, > > but a file or 10 in /var/... got bust. Same for dump-ing to a tape. Thanks a STACK folks!! I got some _good_ info here, learnt some about copying files with their permissions intact. This mailing list works well, like the Operating system it supports. Congratulations!! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 22:26:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA26427 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:26:30 -0800 Received: from perth.DIALix.oz.au (jreuucp@perth.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA26421 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:26:25 -0800 Received: from jules.UUCP (jreuucp@localhost) by perth.DIALix.oz.au (8.6.9/8.6.9/DIALix) with UUCP id OAA24036; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:25:28 +0800 Received: by jules.DIALix.oz.au (8.6.9/25-eef) id OAA00505; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:17:44 GMT From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199501051417.OAA00505@jules.DIALix.oz.au> Subject: Re: WD-7000 progress... (help!) To: offe@ludd.luth.se (Olof Johansson) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:17:44 +0000 () Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501042348.AAA03125@father.ludd.luth.se> from "Olof Johansson" at Jan 5, 95 00:48:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1824 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The current status of the WD-7000 driver is this: > Reading and writing from/to character devices is working, at least to some > extent. I can read and write my tape without errors (more than the one the > streamer itself causes). > > BUT I have _big_ problems getting it to work with a 105Mb Quantum disk I've > borrowed when accessing it as a blockdevice. I haven't added scatter/gather > support, I don't know if that may have something to do with it . yes, definitly.... only rarely will the two pages in an 8k buffer be physically adjoining.. > > When I do a 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd0f bs=8k count=1000', and thereafter > reads it (from the raw device to make sure it isn't garbled when reading) > it only contains zeroes in the beginning (the two first blocks written usally), probably you are getting 4k nulls and 4k rubbish.. I think you NEED scatter-gather, or to copy everything to a contiguous buffer.. (unless hte boardhas a programmed IO interface as well in which case you could use that.......) > Since reading/writing from/to character devices works fine I wonder what the > difference is for the driver? I can't see any. All it gets is a chunk of > memory and a scsi command to pass to the controller. yes, but raw devices DMA direct to user pages, while block devices DMA to kernel buffer pages.. They are allocated at different times and have a differnt probability of being contiguous..... > One thing I observed was that getblk complained about only getting 4k blocks > from my minphys. When i changed that, so it could read/write bigger blocks > it stopped. Since I don't really know if I did something "illegal" I can't tell > if that has anythign to do with my problems. > 4k is the maximum you can send safely withoud scatter/gather, and only then if it is page alligned... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 22:49:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA26653 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:49:00 -0800 Received: from perth.DIALix.oz.au (uucp@perth.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA26646 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:48:52 -0800 Received: from jules.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by perth.DIALix.oz.au (8.6.9/8.6.9/DIALix) with UUCP id OAA24045; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:25:30 +0800 Received: by jules.DIALix.oz.au (8.6.9/25-eef) id OAA00515; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:21:46 GMT From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199501051421.OAA00515@jules.DIALix.oz.au> Subject: Re: Bad sectors on SCSI drive! To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:21:46 +0000 () Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199501041055.FAA01628@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Jan 4, 95 05:55:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1468 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > > Allright, so what can be done? How can I map out bad sectors on a scsi > > > drive? Do I have to newfs the drive? > > > > Return it to the manufacturer. A good SCSI drive shouldn't develop faults > > like this, and when it does, it's time to shoot it. > > If you can't return the drive: > > I don't think Jordan's statement is universally true. Mode page > 1 for a direct access device has a "AWRE" (automatic write > reallocation) and "ARRE" (automatic read reallocation) selections > that can be turned on and off. > > I'm not sure why these would be turned off. > > Also the spec reads that the automatic reallocation will be performed > only if the target has the valid data. Maybe on some drives there > are circumstances where that can happen. when the read error is sobad it can't be reconstructed by the drive...... > > If you're running -current you can apply the patches in > freefall:pub/incoming/sutar7.gz , rebuild the kernel and run the > "ssec" command to slip the sectors by block number and the "mode_sense" > command to see what the mode page settings are. this command is in the driver... just needs an ioctl to call it...... of course then you have a bad block in a file.. use tar cf /dev/null / to find the bad file BEFORE you fix the error the bad file will be mentionned on stderr.. otherwise you'll never know which file is corruptted with a block of nulls in it's middle.. > julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 4 23:57:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA27792 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:57:57 -0800 Received: from beta.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (beta.wsl.sinica.edu.tw [140.109.7.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA27786 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 23:57:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199501050757.XAA27786@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by beta.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA24653; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 15:56:47 +0800 From: Yen-Wei Liu Subject: Re: HELP!@# To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 15:56:46 EAT In-Reply-To: <199501050541.VAA00421@corbin.Root.COM>; from "David Greenman" at Jan 04, 95 9:41 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > maxusers 32 > Why? You need at least 16MB of memory to support that many users effectively. I guess there is another issue : when I change one option, I don't really know what this will effect. Maybe I just think this option sounds interesting so I add it, and have no idea what this really does nor what our system will become. Maybe we need a kernel hacking guide ? 8-) -- Yen-Wei Liu (ywliu@beta.wsl.sinica.edu.tw) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 00:03:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA27966 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:03:06 -0800 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA27959 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:03:00 -0800 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id DAA01184; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 03:00:20 -0500 From: Wankle Rotary Engine Message-Id: <199501050800.DAA01184@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: No RARP for FreeBSD yet?? To: sneits@hit.fi (Osku Sneits) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 03:00:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501042156.XAA18961@hit.fi> from "Osku Sneits" at Jan 4, 95 11:56:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 7700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk They say this Osku Sneits person was kidding when he wrote: > > I am just wondering if anyone of those skillful hackers out there > would be kind enough to do a working rarp or rarpd for FreeBSD? > I've got access to some sun3's and would love to boot them off > of a FreeBSD with xkernel or such which requires rarp. > > Would be a *shame* to install a netbsd just for that, wouldn't it? :) > > If you have information on this, please reply directly as > I'm not in the list. > > Thank you. > It seems to me that rarpd alone is not enough to boot a diskless SunOS client: you also need rpc.bootparamd. (I know that FreeBSD has bootpd, but I don't think it has bootparamd.) Oddly enough, even though I recently obtained a copy of InfoMagic's BSDisc (with FreeBSD 2.0 and NetBSD 1.0), it never occurred to me to look through the NetBSD sources to see if they had a bootparam daemon. If NetBSD has both of these, then I might take a stab at porting them once I'm through with the NIS server junk. (Hopefully the NetBSD people won't mind.) Speaking of NIS, it's time for another update. Stuff I've done: - Cleaned up a few more GDBM -> DB teething problems in ypserv -- maps that contain YP_MASTER_NAME and YP_LAST_MODIFIED as their last elements would confuse the read_database() function. (Noticed this while trying to read a dummy ypservers map, which had only one real entry. :) Fixed with some more rigorous sanity checks. - Finished/tested ypserv's ypxfr functionality: successfully yppushed maps from a SunOS server. Made sure that ypxfr requests originating from non-privileged ports are refused. - Tested yppush: tried to push maps to myself, which worked, but which also led to the following two points: - Rpcgen'ed new YP stub files for ypxfr and yppush because the existing ones were hopelessly mangled. (Would it be 'Linux impaired' or 'FreeBSD challenged?' :) - Stripped down the newly-generated yp_xdr.c to avoid conflicts with YP XDR funxtions already in libc. This problem didn't show up when linking ypxfr and yppush dynamically, but when I tried to make static binaries as a test, I got all sorts of 'multiply-defined symbol' errors. (Not to mention many inexplicable core dumps.) - Modified /usr/src/libc/gen/getpwent.c to use master.passwd.byname and master.passwd.byuid maps if they can be found. I could find no quick and easy way to dynamically verify the existence of the 'shadow' maps other than to try a yp_first() on one of them. If the current user is superuser (geteuid() != 0), we try to retrieve the first element from the master.passwd.byname map. If this fails, we assume the master maps are not available and default back to the standard passwd maps. I'm not all that thrilled with the results: for normal users, things are just as fast as they always were, but the superuser winds up having to do two YP lookups for each getpw*() request. For certain programs (like finger) that do stupid things such as: while(pw = getpwnam()) {}, this causes a noticeable slowdown. (This is with a passwd map containing about 300 entries being served from a SunOS machine). If anyone can think of a better, *faster*, way, I'm open to suggestions. The reason for the superuser status check is this: I've set up ypserv to refuse to serve the master.passwd maps to any client that does not issue a request on a privileged port. Since only the superuser is supposed to be able to issue such a request, there is no point in going through the whole yp_first() nonsense for non-root users. All this was done to permit optimum interoperability between FreeBSD and other NIS servers/clients. You should be able to run: o A FreeBSD server with generic YP clients o FreeBSD clients with a generic YP server o only FreeBSD clients with FreeBSD servers o a little of each There is one caveat: if you run a FreeBSD NIS server with both FreeBSD and generic clients, you have to maintain an insecure copy of the passwd maps (i.e. a version with actual encrypted passwords instead of dummy fields) even though the FreeBSD clients don't need them, since you probably won't be able to get the generic clients to understand FreeBSD's 'secure' master.passwd maps, unless you're lucky enough to have source. - Also added a _masterpw_breakout_yp() function to getpwent.c to properly decode the contents of the master.passwd maps. - Hacked the crap out of yppasswdd in the following ways: o An alternate set of password files can be specified on the command line as follows: # yppasswdd -m /alternate/master.passwd -o /alternate/passwd By default, yppasswdd will operate on the standard password databases in /etc. This may be desireable in some cases, or it may not. If you do tell it to operate on the files in /etc, yppasswdd will run pwd_mkdb to rebuild the databases. I currently have a seperate copy of passwd and master.passwd stored in /var/yp. You can put them anywhere you like so long as you tell yppasswdd where they are and edit /var/yp/Makefile accordingly. o Added a -u (unsecure) flag which, if you are using an alternate set of password files, will cause actual encrypted passwords to be stored in the alternate passwd file, and the passwd.byname and passwd.byuid maps. (The default behavior is to put an '*' in the password field of the passwd file and its maps.) This flag is provided in the event that you need to use your FreeBSD system to serve a SunOS or similarly brain-damaged NIS client, since such clients won't be able to use the 'shadow' maps. If you are not using alternate passwd files, -u does nothing. o Added -f and -s flags to disallow changing of the 'full name' and 'gecos' fields, respectively. (These were originally compile-time options.) - Edited /var/yp/Makefile to generate a ypservers map for use with yppush. - Edited /var/yp/Makefile to run /usr/libexec/yppush after rebuilding the maps. - Re-organized the heirarchy a little: /usr/bin/yppush <- should this go in /usr/sbin instead? /usr/sbin/ypserv /usr/sbin/yp_mkdb /usr/libexec/ypxfr /usr/libexec/yppasswdd /usr/lib/pwupdate (shell script) /usr/bin/yppasswd /usr/bin/ypchfn (link to yppasswd) /usr/bin/ypchsh (link to yppasswd) /var/yp/Makefile /var/yp/master.passwd Stuff I still have to do: - Integrate /usr/bin/yppasswd with /usr/bin/passwd, as per Garrett Wollman's suggestion. This is tricker than it sounds, because it also implies that I should integrate ypchfn and ypshsh (which are links to yppasswd) with chpass. I've decided I'm not going to do that though. I will make merge yppasswd with passwd, but ypchfn and ypchsh will have to remain as links (to passwd). Someone else can make a 'ypchpass' if they want: I've had more than enough fun already. :) Yes, that's right folks: just one more item left on the 'to do' list. With luck, it'll only be another day or so before I'm ready to hand over the code for inspection, assuming trivial things like my job don't intrude. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul System Manager wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu Center for Telecommunications Research (212) 854-6020 Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 01:02:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA29008 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 01:02:35 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA29002 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 01:02:18 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13720; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:02:43 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id KAA28384 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:02:42 +0100 Received: by bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA11453; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:46:47 +0100 From: j@uriah.sax.de (J Wunsch) Message-Id: <199501050846.JAA11453@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Subject: Re: flock() [Was: Never mind...] To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:46:47 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <1660.789270154@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 4, 95 05:42:34 pm X-Phone: +49-351-8141 137 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1021 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: | | > >I've noticed that FreeBSD 2's flock() is binary incompatible with | > >FreeBSD 1.1.5's. My older copy of elm refuses to work now under 2.0, | > >i get an `flock: invalid argument'. | > | > `struct flock' starts with an off_t, so the struct is totally | > incompatible with the 1.1.5 version. | | But... Didn't the old version of flock() use a different syscall | number? We should still be able to deal with the 32 bit off_t in | the old syscall.. flock() would actually have worked, it uses two int's as parameters (fd and cmd) since it's going to (un)lock the whole file. I've DDB'd the problem and noticed that i've configured it to use fcntl() for locking (it reports ``flock failed'' though), so the `struct flock' taken by fcntl() is the real problem. -- cheers, J"org work: --- no longer --- private: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 02:02:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA00770 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 02:02:26 -0800 Received: from relay-europe.ps.net (relay-europe.ps.net [160.110.96.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA00755 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 02:02:21 -0800 Received: by relay-europe.ps.net (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA10707; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:06:23 GMT Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:06:22 +0000 (GMT) From: Aled Morris Subject: Re: FreeBSD on SCHOOL SYSTEMS???? To: Sean Kelly Cc: spaz@u.washington.edu, FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501041631.AA252817119@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Sean Kelly wrote: > John> How do you keep folks from sticking a boot disk in; > John> logging in as root, and spamming the whole system? > > With careful selection of PC BIOS. When I worked at a University we gave up on the idea of putting the machines in public rooms - not just because of boot-disk hackers, but simply because they had access to the power switch! I believe the current biggest threat is SIMM theft. Aled -- aledm@relay-europe.ps.net | tel +44 973 207987 Perot Systems Europe Ltd. | fax +44 181 476 2419 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 03:44:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA02441 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 03:44:08 -0800 Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [140.174.82.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02434 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 03:43:54 -0800 Received: (from muir@localhost) by idiom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id DAA27272; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 03:43:08 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 03:43:08 -0800 From: David Muir Sharnoff Message-Id: <199501051143.DAA27272@idiom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan says: * I have this CD and it's not lying * about the degree of flexibility it provides. NetBSD is not the * competition. This is. I have to agree. I've just spent the last two weeks playing with NetBSD 1.0 (N), FreeBSD 2.0 (F), and Slackware Professional 2.1 (S). Impressions: Base OS installation: S: DOS-like install. Works. Is very easy. F: DOS-like install. Kinda works. Is very easy. N: Nasty nast install. Base OS configuration: S: DOS-like, called from install, works, very easy. F: Some done by install, the rest you're on your own N: You're on your own. OS add-ons (/usr/local): S: DOS-like install called from main install. Everyting you could ever want except for a decent version of vi. F: A fair number (20%) of what you might want. Unfortunantly, 20% of the packages don't install. N: A poor selection (10%) of what you might want is distributed on a 3rd-party disk that shipped many months after NetBSD 1.0. Multi-boot: S: LILO can either be primary boot selector or secondary. Installation of LILO is handled by install. F: Boot selector with F is broken, but OS-BS works fine N: destroys boot blocks of other OSes. Building a kernel: N: Must find conf directory. Is easy after that. F: I'm having a bit of troube, but I haven't been at it long. S: Must answer 500 yes/no questions. Device drivers: S: Includes drivers for everything made. All the ones I tried worked perfectly excpet for the 3c509 plug & play dead problems I had with every os except Windows For Workgroups NF: A good selection of drivers, unfortunatnly the authors of the drivers are split up between the F & N camps and thus there is no one os with the best set because the idiots (I mean you :-) haven't maintained compatability with each other. OS emulation/binary compatability: S: DOS, SysV, iBCS2, Windows(Wine) NF: SysV, iBCS2, Windows(Wine) OS source compatability: S: Everybody ports to Linux or SunOS. Linux does whatever it can to make it easy to port things. There are no fish to fry. F: Inherits hubris from Berkely folks. Breaks the world in the name of POSIX and correctness. For example, what's sendmail doing in /usr/sbin instead of /usr/lib? Where is /usr/ucb/vi? Or /usr/ucb/Mail? The paths are the interface! N: Inherits hubris from Berkely folks. Breaks the world in the name of POSIX and correctness. Is proud. OS Filesystems: S: DOS, OS/2 (readonly), SysV, cdrom NF: DOS, cdrom Filesystem write perfomance: F: 3.7MB/sec on my computer S: I didn't time it, but my estimate is 2MB/sec N: 770K/sec on my computer Filesystem read performance (tar news spool | dd): S: don't know, 'cause my system's running FreeBSD... F: 550K/sec N: 340K/sec Filesystem read performance (dd if=bigfile): S: don't know, 'cause my system's running FreeBSD... F: 6.5MB/sec ! N: 760K/sec Raw disk read speed: S: don't know, 'cause my system's running FreeBSD... N: 6.3MB/sec ! F: 3.5MB/sec Backups: NF: dump S: tar Networking: NF: based on Berkeley S: has only one redeeming feature: SLIP & PPP won't ever crash the system. Security (totally subjective): N: high priority, probably done right F: medium-high priority, probably done right S: too many cooks, probably messed up Documenatation: S: Came with full printed docs that have been very useful in geting *bsd working. F: online manual pages + FAQ N: online manual pages Support: N: most querys replied to in < 2hours F: most querys replied to in < 2days S: don't know where to report a bug Bugs: S: I didn't stress it as much, but I hardly found any bugs. NF: I find bugs at a rate of 1 every two hours that I use either of these systems. It's not acceptable. It's not distribution quality. Panics: S: 0 F: often during installs, rarely afterwards N: there's a bug in the ncr disk driver ... I choose *BSD of Linux becasue of sevarl factors. 1. Brand loyalty. I've been a bsd bigot for years. SysV sucks and Linux is kinda SysVish. 2. Security. I don't trust Linux. 3. Networking. I'm a *TINY* ISP. Good networking is important. However, after playing with Linux, I have to keep repeating a mantra: "BSD==my frieds, Security, Networking; BSD=my friends, Security, Netowrking..." I think I'm going to use FreeBSD instead of NetBSD because at least the FreeBSD camp is trying to compete. The NetBSD crowd is off in an ivory tower as far as I can tell. They don't distribute a useable system because it's missing too much from /usr/local. With the new installs, FreeBSD is trying to become a 90's operating system: a bit flashy; easy to install; fun. NetBSD is stuck in the 80's: functional, clean, fast, isoloted. I hope I don't offend any of the NetBSD folks with this characterization. I'm trying to oversimplify. The most amazing thing for me, since I hadn't used *BSD or Linux two weeks ago, is that FreeBSD and NetBSD are NOT COMPATABILE WITH EACH OTHER!!! It's crazy. All the Linux distributions, every single one, can run each others binaries(*) and use each other's device drivers. -Dave * I'm guessing. :-) Artistic license! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 04:04:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA03070 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 04:04:22 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA03054 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 04:04:05 -0800 Received: from acds.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA19526; Thu, 5 Jan 95 13:03:38 +0100 Received: by acds.physik.rwth-aachen.de (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA16445; Thu, 5 Jan 95 13:04:49 +0100 Message-Id: <9501051204.AA16445@acds.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: elm To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:04:47 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 388 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Excuse, folks. I just want to see how my From: field looks like when launching a mail from elm into the list since somehow my From field under Ultrix (4.1) mail are bent once again all of a sudden I have no idea why. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@acds.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD 2.0.1-Development #0: Wed Nov 2 23:00:17 1994 root@mvx1b1:/usr/src/sys/compile/JAZZ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 22:46:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA23534 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:46:55 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA23527 for hackers; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:46:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:46:54 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199501060646.WAA23527@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: This should work now.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Argh.. We had some other stuff depending on /usr/local/bin/perl in the majordomo code! Folks, if you have anything relying on /usr/local/bin/perl, PLEASE stamp it out on freefall! /usr/bin/perl is the only perl that we can count on to be any specific version, and /usr/local/bin/perl is going to be only god-knows-what version. Probably experimental half the time. Anyway, if you have any perl scripts under your domain, please take a few minutes to fix them. The ftpmail stuff fell over this way too. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 22:55:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA00174 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:55:35 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA23804 for hackers; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:53:07 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:53:07 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199501060653.WAA23804@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk test1 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 22:56:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA23534 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:46:55 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA23527 for hackers; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:46:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:46:54 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199501060646.WAA23527@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: This should work now.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Argh.. We had some other stuff depending on /usr/local/bin/perl in the majordomo code! Folks, if you have anything relying on /usr/local/bin/perl, PLEASE stamp it out on freefall! /usr/bin/perl is the only perl that we can count on to be any specific version, and /usr/local/bin/perl is going to be only god-knows-what version. Probably experimental half the time. Anyway, if you have any perl scripts under your domain, please take a few minutes to fix them. The ftpmail stuff fell over this way too. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 23:02:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA00529 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 23:02:06 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA00524 for hackers; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 23:02:06 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 23:02:06 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199501060702.XAA00524@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: test1 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk test test From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 5 23:05:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA00736 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 23:05:55 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA00729 for hackers; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 23:05:55 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 23:05:55 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199501060705.XAA00729@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: Mail to these lists for last 18 hours or so lost. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When freefall's /usr/local took a hit, I assumed that I could simply reconstruct the shells, a couple of useful utilities like emacs and gmake, and do the rest at my leisure. I had no plans to bring back perl, as it's migrated to /usr/bin. However, packages like ftpmail and majordomo had other ideas as they depended on /usr/local/bin/perl outright. This caused bad lossage, as the failing scripts simply dumped incoming list mail onto the floor. Oh Well! ftpmail and majordomo have been updated the use the new perl location. /usr/local/bin/perl may exist again someday, but only as an experimental or testing version. Please do not count on finding it in that location! Thanks. JOrdan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 00:29:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA06323 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:29:48 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA06309 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:29:26 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04388; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:30:18 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA12535 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:30:18 +0100 Received: by bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA16340; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:04:11 +0100 From: j@uriah.sax.de (J Wunsch) Message-Id: <199501060804.JAA16340@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:04:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <9501060030.AA16655@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 5, 95 05:30:00 pm X-Phone: +49-351-8141 137 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 555 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: | | BTW: I'm not getting this except that it was explicitly sent to me... | are the lists down? Nope, but majordomo has his favorite game, called ``Randomly unsubscription''. I've once also suffered from this (and didn't even notice it since i've still got lotsa mails from cvs-* and thud-users those days). -- cheers, J"org work: --- no longer --- private: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 00:55:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA07325 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:55:59 -0800 Received: from feta.cisco.com (feta.cisco.com [171.69.1.158]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA07317 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:55:57 -0800 Received: (pst@localhost) by feta.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/CISCO.SERVER.1.1) id AAA00339 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:55:26 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:55:26 -0800 From: Paul Traina Message-Id: <199501060855.AAA00339@feta.cisco.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: heads up... nevot port almost done... Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk it's vat, it's nv, it's ivs, it's all rolled into one... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 00:58:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA07476 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:58:46 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA07469 for hackers; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:58:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 00:58:46 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199501060858.AAA07469@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: One final test. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Making sure all the lists are back to life (sigh).. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 01:31:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA09861 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:31:37 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA09853 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:31:36 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA02687; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:27:34 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199501060927.BAA02687@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:27:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501060804.JAA16340@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jan 6, 95 09:04:10 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 688 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As Terry Lambert wrote: > | > | BTW: I'm not getting this except that it was explicitly sent to me... > | are the lists down? > > Nope, but majordomo has his favorite game, called ``Randomly > unsubscription''. I've once also suffered from this (and didn't even > notice it since i've still got lotsa mails from cvs-* and thud-users > those days). This random unsubscription is usually due to the postmaster who gets a lot of bounced email. When email bounces, it is kind of pointless to tell people that you yank them from the list... -- Poul-Henning Kamp TRW Financial Systems, Inc. FreeBSD has, until now, not one single time had an undetected error. :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 01:44:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA10406 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:44:22 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA10400 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:44:21 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA02736 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:44:20 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199501060944.BAA02736@ref.tfs.com> Subject: sio.c, wd.c, if_ed.c & PCMCIA To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:44:20 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1353 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have been studying rather heavily the last three weeks and belive I have the PCMCIA understood now. I have looked at the Linux stuff and I have read a couple of books on the subject (All the ones I have been able to find: two). I have a prototype running now, which will detect and configure my Megahertz modem or my Infomover correctly on boot. The next step is to make it work when the cards are swapped. I think I have a workable architecture worked out. I will present this to Soren in person this weekend, and if he doesn't send me to the "National Home Of The Recursively Bewildered", I will write a architectural paper on it and post it here during next week. It requires some architectural changes which may or may not come for free with the devfs, the main problems being the way the "softc" structure is identified from the dev_t and power-management. If any major rewrites are planned for any of the drivers listed in the subject, or for any other "PCMCIAble" device drivers, we should get the PCMCIA support into it at the same time, so gimme a buzz before you redesign any of them. If you are PCMCIA interested, could you send me a list of the PCMCIA devices and computers you have ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp TRW Financial Systems, Inc. FreeBSD has, until now, not one single time had an undetected error. :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 01:52:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA10724 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:52:26 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA10713; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:52:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:52:25 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199501060952.BAA10713@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: Desperately Seeking Doc hackers! Cc: antwerp Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, folks.. It's time to start the FreeBSD Documentation Project - it's long overdue! We need people to: o Write mini-FAQs o Write meta-FAQs (overviews, indices, etc). o Write tutorial guides (longer than mini-FAQs, not in "FAQ" format). o Help bring over the Linux SGML doc environment. o Oversee the doc project and set overall direction (editor). o Work with the Webmasters (www@freebsd.org) in pasting it all together into a homogenous whole. We need to deal with HTML, cleartext and Postscript output in the short term. In the long term, we should also support info. o Clean up and hypertextify the man pages (apparently, there's already a tool to do this automagically). o Look at all the old stuff in /usr/share/doc and refile, delete or fix. I figured that the home of the DOC project should be /usr/src/share/doc/freebsd. The old stuff can stay alongside it or get shuffled into /usr/src/share/doc/old where it can molder in peace until we've either outdated it or picked at it for all the value that could be derived. The existing stuff will stay in /usr/src/share/FAQ, which should be eventually deprecated. The build process will probably involve taking /usr/src/share/doc/freebsd/SGML/... and building one or more documents in /usr/share/doc/freebsd/ASCII/ or /usr/share/doc/freebsd/Postscript/ for distribution with the docdist. Ideally, I'd like to see this taken over entirely by one `docmaster', who would join the core team (if not already a member) and hold overall responsibility for FreeBSD documentation. If all else fails, I'll take it on, but I'd rather not. I really don't have the time available for any more intensive writing right now! :-( I'd expect things to proceed along the following lines: 1. Appoint docmaster. 2. Solidify plans concerning markup language to be used (I'm presuming SGML at this point) and which initial output formats the FDP will be expected to provide. 3. Docmaster assembles team. 4. Team sends report to hackers detailing what they have in mind. 5. Rest of community kibbitzes for awhile, eventually quiets down, team considers feedback for short time then work begins in earnest. 6. Poul-Henning Kamp & I work closely with Docmaster & team on scheduling docs to go into FreeBSD 2.1, which docs are provided before, during and after the installation process, etc. 7. Simultaneously, the Webmasters start pasting in some of the initial HTML output and feeding back to the Docs team on how it all looks. I'd also like to take this chance to mention that the Web pages have been going amazingly well, and anyone who hasn't looked at http://www.freebsd.org yet is strongly encouraged to do so! Kudos to John Fieber and James L Robinson for a very impressive job so far. It's been their success more than anything else that's been motivating me to take a long, hard look at our docs, and I'm not very happy with what I'm seeing. We REALLY need to change this if we are to have any hope of really reaching a large number of people! The Linux Doc Project has generated an amazingly large amount of very good documentation, and we've basically done squat. Shame on us! I take this lack of good doc very seriously, as most of you who know me already know, and I think it's time that we all took it seriously enough to form a complete team who's only thought is DOC! Thoughts? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 02:56:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA17653 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 02:56:47 -0800 Received: from dkuug.dk (dkuug.dk [193.88.44.89]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA17637 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 02:56:27 -0800 Received: from kmd-ac.dk by dkuug.dk with UUCP id AA07365 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for freebsd.org!hackers); Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:56:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199501061056.AA07365@dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: sio.c, wd.c, if_ed.c & PCMCIA To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:25:25 +0000 (GMT) From: "Soeren Schmidt" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501060944.BAA02736@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 6, 95 01:44:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1623 X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have been studying rather heavily the last three weeks and belive I have > the PCMCIA understood now. I have looked at the Linux stuff and I have read > a couple of books on the subject (All the ones I have been able to find: two). > > I have a prototype running now, which will detect and configure my Megahertz > modem or my Infomover correctly on boot. The next step is to make it work > when the cards are swapped. > > I think I have a workable architecture worked out. I will present this to > Soren in person this weekend, and if he doesn't send me to the "National > Home Of The Recursively Bewildered", I will write a architectural paper > on it and post it here during next week. We'll see about that :) > It requires some architectural changes which may or may not come for free > with the devfs, the main problems being the way the "softc" structure is > identified from the dev_t and power-management. > > If any major rewrites are planned for any of the drivers listed in the > subject, or for any other "PCMCIAble" device drivers, we should get the > PCMCIA support into it at the same time, so gimme a buzz before you > redesign any of them. > > If you are PCMCIA interested, could you send me a list of the PCMCIA devices > and computers you have ? ChemBook 486DX based laptop National InfoMover netcard USRobotics 14.4 fax/data modem Very interested in getting this to work.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@kmd-ac.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 04:24:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA20021 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 04:24:53 -0800 Received: from relay.philips.nl (relay.philips.nl [130.144.65.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA20015 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 04:24:49 -0800 Received: from muxgw1.ms.philips.nl ([130.144.90.6]) by relay.philips.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9-950103) with SMTP id NAA14980 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:24:08 +0100 Received: by muxgw1.ms.philips.nl (5.57/Ultrix2.4-C) id AA02709; Fri, 6 Jan 95 13:08:19 +0200 Received: by mmra1.ms.philips.nl (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26078; Fri, 6 Jan 95 13:22:47 +0100 From: gvrooij@mmra1.ms.philips.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <9501061222.AA26078@mmra1.ms.philips.nl> Subject: 32 heads for enhanced IDE!? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:22:46 +0100 (MET) Cc: gvrooij@muxgw1.ms.philips.nl (Guido van Rooij) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1019 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to help out a friend here that has problems installing 2.0R on an enhanced IDE drive. I hope to find an answer as his company wants to start using FreeBSD. I am afraid they will go on with Linux otherwise. In his BIOS setup, he entered 1048 cylinders, 16 heads and 63 sectors/track IDE_CONF reports: Cyl Hds S/T Bios reports 524 32 63 Controller 1048 16 63 before reset ,, ,, ,, ,, after reset The strange thing is the fact that the Bios reports something that is different from its own setup!? The bios is an AMI one (on a P90 board). The settings now behave like: Cyl Hds S/T After Msdos fdisk/mbr, FreeBSS reports: 1028 16 63 After making a 50Meg Dos partition with fdisk, FreeBSD reports: 524 32 63 (plus a notice it cant handle 32 heads). So I just dont know what settings to use. I'd say 524/32/63 but that's explicitly forbidden. I hacked a new wd.c that allows it, but that hasnt been tested yet. (btw: what happened to the ATA docs in /sys/i386/doc?) Any other options? -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 04:59:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA21505 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 04:59:15 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA21483 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 04:59:03 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA12635; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:59:38 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id NAA01030 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:59:36 +0100 Received: by bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA17367; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:54:25 +0100 From: j@uriah.sax.de (J Wunsch) Message-Id: <199501061254.NAA17367@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Subject: Re: Never mind on the "mcopy busy" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:54:24 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501060927.BAA02687@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 6, 95 01:27:34 am X-Phone: +49-351-8141 137 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 798 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: | | > Nope, but majordomo has his favorite game, called ``Randomly | > unsubscription''. | This random unsubscription is usually due to the postmaster who gets a lot | of bounced email. When email bounces, it is kind of pointless to tell people | that you yank them from the list... Hmm, but when i disappeared from the hackers list, somewhere at end of summer, all the other email to me (CVS-committers, thud-users, xfree86-beta@XFree86.org) apparently didn't bounce, so it's hard to believe for me that mail to -hackers should have done it... -- cheers, J"org work: --- no longer --- private: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 05:29:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA23294 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 05:29:13 -0800 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp13.netcom.com [163.179.3.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA23273 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 05:28:52 -0800 From: jim.bryant@whytel.com Received: from whytel.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id FAA24997; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 05:24:45 -0800 Received: by whytel.com id 0A5JS001 Fri, 06 Jan 95 07:13:41 -0600 Message-ID: <9501060713.0A5JS00@whytel.com> Organization: WHY? Telecommunications, Inc. X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.23 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 07:13:41 -0600 Subject: SYSCONS BUG? To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk with the following set: vidcontrol -t 120 -s fade i encountered the following: saver kicked in, i pressed left-ctrl, the screen brightness went up, and washed out every[?] display color but yellow. the background was visibly overdriven [black should not be dark gray], forground yellow was also overdriven. a blind reboot command rebooted the machine [kernel messages were displayed, in the same overdriven yellow [sync, reboot] [the only changes i made to syscons.c were the default normal and kernel colors]. i've been running the fade saver for a few days now, and this is the first time it's happened this way. if i have the time, i'll look at the fade saver code, but be warned that the possibility of this happening exists. at this point, the only solution i know of is a reboot. previously uptime less than 24 hours. 2.0-RELEASE. 3:44AM up 11 mins, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00 Fri Jan 6 03:44:17 CST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 05:29:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA23314 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 05:29:36 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA23308 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 05:29:35 -0800 From: knight@zko.dec.com Received: from caboom.zko.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/10Aug94) id AA08650; Fri, 6 Jan 95 05:27:47 -0800 Received: by caboom.zko.dec.com (5.65/DEC-SDE-CBM-ULTRIX-10/28/92); id AA08207; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:26:47 -0500 Message-Id: <9501061326.AA08207@caboom.zko.dec.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: knight@zko.dec.com Subject: ntpdate (apparently lost in yesterday's mailing list funny stuff) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 08:26:47 -0500 X-Mts: smtp Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've been experimenting with ntpdate from FreeBSD 2.0R for the last few days. My results have been a bit surprising (to me at least) at best; I thought you might be interested in the results, though. #1: Doing the following sample command: ntpdate -b -d xxx.yyy.com has interesting results: if xxx.yyy.com is a FreeBSD 2.0R system, it works. if xxx.yyy.com is an OSF/1 2.0 or 3.0, or ULTRIX or BSDi system, it fails, specifically, the messages are not responded to by the remote system. If, instead, I do: ntpdate -o2 -b -d xxx.yyy.com then everything works for the previously non-working systems. So it looks like the version 3 protocol is not quite right on the FreeBSD side. #2: If I run the ntpdate command from a FreeBSD system that has /etc/wall_cmos_clock enabled, ntpdate reports an offset of 17981.*** which, just happens to be the 5 hour offset to UTC from local time. Fwiw, xntpd, when used, also shows the same offset. Would it be desirable for the wall_cmos_clock to be taken into consideration when this calculation is made? Or is this too much of a hack/problem? Or, better yet, have I got something wrong in my kernel configuration? Thanks. ------ Dave Knight knight@zko.dec.com (work) knight@ka1dt.mv.com (home) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 05:50:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA23869 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 05:50:29 -0800 Received: from squid.umd.edu (squid.umd.edu [129.2.40.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA23863; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 05:50:28 -0800 Received: by squid.umd.edu (5.65/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA26659; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:56:42 -0500 From: fcawth@squid.umd.edu (Fred Cawthorne) Message-Id: <9501061356.AA26659@squid.umd.edu> Subject: Re: Desperately Seeking Doc hackers! To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 8:56:42 EST Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, antwerp@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501060952.BAA10713@freefall.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 6, 95 1:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > look at our docs, and I'm not very happy with what I'm seeing. We REALLY > need to change this if we are to have any hope of really reaching a large > number of people! The Linux Doc Project has generated an amazingly large > amount of very good documentation, and we've basically done squat. Shame > on us! > Yeah, shame indeed. > I take this lack of good doc very seriously, as most of you who know me > already know, and I think it's time that we all took it seriously enough > to form a complete team who's only thought is DOC! > > Thoughts? I agree!!! I have helped several grad. students here at the university install FreeBSD on their PC's, and I always wished there were a nice doc set that contained the basic information about running the system, etc... The installation guide is pretty good for getting them started, but we have to remember that many of these people haven't really used anything other than dos!!! One of the people I work with is leaving soon, and he wants to try out linux because it has more documentation. (He doesn't want to call here whenever he has a problem, or something like that...) (: It would be a good thing to get in touch with people who have recently started using FreeBSD, and find out where they had problems. I have been running BSD since 386BSD 0.1 came out, and SYSV/386 3.2 before then, so I tend to take lots of things for granted... I don't have a whole lot of time to spend on something like this, but I would not have written this message if I wasn't willing to put in some effort. Hopefully, the load for this thing can be somewhat distributed between several people. Please keep me informed. Thanks, Fred. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 06:56:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA29241 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 06:56:32 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA29199 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 06:56:26 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA07541; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:55:34 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199501061455.OAA07541@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: oops To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:55:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <7410.789366216@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 5, 95 08:23:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1336 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > I think that's a little overstated. Thud's testing role is not > disputed, but it's rarely, if ever, gotten spammed so badly that the > core CVS tools no longer worked. Well, at least no more often than > freefall's core CVS tools have! :-) It's more used for testing *ports* > nowadays than for the actual system itself. That last outage showed > that thud has sort of became too useful to screw up at will now! It's > got too much storage on it, for one thing, and I think that thud is > fated to become a Real Machine(tm) and start providing services that > need to be offloaded from freefall. > Fine, if we agree to do this I become less concerned but it means we must ensure thud is as well maintained as freefall from now on and we may as well offload some things to it completely. Maybe move cvs entirely to thud and keep freefall for the lists. We should change the root password too since thud's is hardly secure. It'd be easiest if we made it the same as freefall's so we won't all have to phone the US to get the new one then. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Phone: +44 1222 874000 x5958 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, JANET(UK): RICHARDSDP@CARDIFF.AC.UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 07:34:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA02337 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 07:34:17 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA02331 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 07:34:14 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id QAA04796 ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:34:56 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22910; Fri, 6 Jan 95 16:35:06 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier ROBERT) Message-Id: <9501061535.AA22910@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: oops To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:35:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501061455.OAA07541@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Jan 6, 95 02:55:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2004 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > We should change the root password too since thud's is hardly secure. It'd > be easiest if we made it the same as freefall's so we won't all have to > phone the US to get the new one then. Regarding the root password problem, why not using a tool which permit to a selected list of users to become root with their own password instead ? I have written such a one (:-)) and use it daily... It has even a man page and a README (for a change). On freefall in my account and /incoming. Sep 28 19:12:00 1994 25.1 Ko calife-2.6.3.tar.gz The 2.6.4 is out (on my computer) but the changes are only for HPUX. I'm afraid the README is in french... Ooops. drwxr-xr-x roberto/staff 0 Sep 28 21:11 1994 calife/ -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 17982 Sep 28 21:01 1994 calife/COPYING -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 545 Sep 25 21:58 1994 calife/Makefile.bsd -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 22058 Sep 26 22:15 1994 calife/calife.c -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 7211 Sep 26 22:15 1994 calife/conf.h -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 12061 Sep 28 20:44 1994 calife/db.c -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 3147 Apr 23 00:56 1994 calife/util.c -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 5876 Sep 28 20:44 1994 calife/ChangeLog -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 1359 Sep 28 20:27 1994 calife/Makefile.SunOS -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 591 Sep 28 20:36 1994 calife/tags -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 5469 Sep 28 21:11 1994 calife/README -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 2072 Sep 25 20:40 1994 calife/calife.1 -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 1677 Sep 25 20:40 1994 calife/calife.auth.5 -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 145 Sep 25 23:30 1994 calife/calife.auth-dist -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 1268 Sep 28 20:44 1994 calife/Makefile.FreeBSD -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 1394 Sep 28 20:27 1994 calife/Makefile.linux -rw-r--r-- roberto/staff 1412 Sep 28 20:27 1994 calife/Makefile.linux-spwd -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: the daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Thu Dec 29 20:28:18 1994 roberto@keltia:/usr/src/sys/compile/KELTIA ctm#235 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 08:01:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA03651 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:01:12 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA03556 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:00:54 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17593; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:01:16 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id RAA01884 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:01:15 +0100 Received: by bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA18202; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:55:20 +0100 From: j@uriah.sax.de (J Wunsch) Message-Id: <199501061555.QAA18202@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> Subject: {login,getty}.core To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:55:19 +0100 (MET) X-Phone: +49-351-8141 137 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 664 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On our network access machine, a 1.1.5 system on a 486, we're constantly getting cores from login and getty, triggered by SIGQUIT's, as the log tells us. After recompiling both programs static (to debug the cores), they became `silent'. The only core dump i could get hold of from a static binary displayed the signal somewhere in ioctl(), qprobably when switching back from raw mode. Any explanations? (They are not serious, but annoying.) -- cheers, J"org work: --- no longer --- private: joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 08:05:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA04598 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:05:49 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA04589 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:05:47 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA07847 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:47:44 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199501061547.PAA07847@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: test To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers mailing list) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 261 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a test. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Phone: +44 1222 874000 x5958 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, JANET(UK): RICHARDSDP@CARDIFF.AC.UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 08:22:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA07286 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:22:20 -0800 Received: from neon.gbdata.com (Phoenix-GW.GBData.COM [199.3.234.240]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA07228 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:22:03 -0800 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by neon.gbdata.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA10542 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:49:39 -0600 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199501061649.KAA10542@neon.gbdata.com> Subject: TimeLine To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:49:38 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1004 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm in the process of writing a book on FreeBSD and would like to verify some dates of in the history of FreeBSD. Could someone please put a month and year to the following events? WFJ releases 386BSD 0.0 UCB releases Net/2 WFJ releases 386BSD 0.1 Patch-kit started (who started it?) 386BSD-pk2.4 put under CVS to start FreeBSD FreeBSD Gamma released FreeBSD Epsilon released FreeBSD 1.0 released FreeBSD 1.1 released USL sends letters asking to cease and desist all distribution UCB releases 4.4BSD-Lite FreeBSD 2.0 released Thanks for any and all help. Oh, and by the way, if anyone thinks I missed a major event please let me know! Gary P.S. It might be better to reply by email rather than post to the list.... -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | The FreeBSD FAQ can be found on gclarkii@freefall.cdrom.com | freefall.cdrom.com in gclarkii@radon.gbdata.com | ~pub/FreeBSD/FAQ/FreeBSD.FAQ Sales and Service for FreeBSD (mail info@gbdata.com for details) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 09:25:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA19153 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:25:09 -0800 Received: from iguana.reptiles.org (iguana.reptiles.org [142.57.253.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA19119; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:25:00 -0800 Received: by iguana.reptiles.org (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.4) id ; Fri, 6 Jan 95 12:24 EST Message-Id: From: jim@reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) Subject: 2.0-R bug in setgroups() or sys/nfs/nfs_socket.c? To: bugs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:24:10 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1828 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ i'm re-doing this, as i think my original got lost in the majordomo failure last night ] after installing 2.0, i enabled YP and mounted /home and /var/mail via NFS (off of my SunOS 4.1.1U1 machine). the system started panic'ing with a "nfsreq nogrps" message. sys/nfs/nfs_socket.c:922 after adding a printf to the kernel, i discovered that smail3 was attempting to trundle through one of the NFS mounted directories. it was at this point that it panic'd. also, as far as the kernel was concerned, the process doing the trundling, had no gid. i looked into the smail3 source and found that it makes the following initialization: smail-3.1.29.1:src/main.c:186 #ifdef HAVE_SETGROUPS /* clear out all extra groups. We don't want to have to deal with them */ { gid_t dummy; (void) setgroups(0, &dummy); } #endif /* HAVE_SETGROUPS */ according to the smail3 conf files, HAVE_SETGROUPS is defined for these systems: aix3.1 aux3.0 bsd4.2 bsd4.3 freebsd2.0 hp-ux7.0 hp-ux8.0 linux mips-bsd4.3 next2.0 sco3.2 sys5.4 i cannot beleive that these other systems would behave the same (ie. panicing on NFS if no gid). questions: should setgroups() set at least one group (ie. from the gid field in /etc/passwd)? should NFS not be so sensitive to the lack of a gid? is the smail code "bad"? i've looked and this same code causes NFS to hang on 1.1.5.1 (but interestingly enough, it does not panic.) the panic message in nfs_socket.c was added sometime between 1.1.5.1 and 2.0-R. -- [ Jim Mercer jim@reptiles.org +1 416 506-0654 ] [ Reptilian Research -- Longer Life through Colder Blood ] [ Never, ever forget to replace the toiletseat after use!!! A wet ] [ chinchilla is a very funny and pathetic sight. -- alt.chinchilla ] From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 09:31:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA20457 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:31:49 -0800 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp7.netcom.com [163.179.3.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA20445 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:31:46 -0800 From: jim.bryant@whytel.com Received: from whytel.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id JAA20937; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 09:09:54 -0800 Received: by whytel.com id 0FLHM003 Fri, 06 Jan 95 11:06:08 -0600 Message-ID: <9501061106.0FLHM00@whytel.com> Organization: WHY? Telecommunications, Inc. X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.23 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 11:06:08 -0600 Subject: SYSCONS FADE SAVER To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk an update on my earlier bug report. this time the background was more greenish, and the forground text on the screen was still readable. since i'm doing a kernel build, i didn't reboot. as the saver was kicking in again after it messed the screen, it went normal, then faded. so far it hasn't happened again, but no doubt it will. still haven't checked the syscons code, will after the build. i've never had problems with the adapter before [Packard-Bell, HT216-32 Video]. Either the palette/dac is messed, or the pre-fade saved values are getting messed with. i repeat, a reboot IS NOT NEEDED. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 10:10:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA24821 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:10:18 -0800 Received: from uhura (slip3.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.5.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24815 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:10:11 -0800 Received: (from cg@localhost) by uhura (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA00134; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:50:28 +0100 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:50:28 +0100 From: "DI. Christian Gusenbauer" Message-Id: <199501061750.SAA00134@uhura> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "guest account: Yggdrasil information" (Jan 4, 9:53pm) Reply-To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > This will take a little while to read and believe me, I know how much > mail most of you get, but it's nonetheless worth slogging all the way > through it. Yes, most of it is unabashed sales hype. Ignore that and > concentrate on the features list. I have this CD and it's not lying > about the degree of flexibility it provides. NetBSD is not the > competition. This is. When and where we can match some of these > features (and I not only think we can, I KNOW we can!), we should > strive to do so! I certainly will be! Hi Everyone! After reading this forwarded info about the features, watching discussions here at the University, speaking with friends I think it's time to plan the future of FreeBSD. If we plan to support these features mentioned in that article, we should think about how FreeBSD will present itself to the future user. Here at our institute, many people fell in love with Micro$oft's NT (not me!), because it's so simple to install and to administer. Just clicking around and it works. Even our hardware-technician, who doesn't know what TCP/IP, NT services, etc exactly are, can configure these things. So I think, if FreeBSD should have a future, we'll have to do some work: 1. We have to make configuring as easy as possible for those users, who never want to look 'behind the scenes'. There should be a way to install and configure FreeBSD for *non-experts*! 2. It's a matter of fact, that all popular OS use GUIs (OS/2, Windows, Apple, NextStep, ...). So why don't we use X right after the installation to communicate with the user (yes, I know X needs lot of space, but if we shrink X to a minimum it's perhaps possible?). So install a minimum OS on the HD, copy a small X version to the disk, and start the X server. I also think, that - in future - only a couple of users will install an OS from disks. The installation medium will be the CD-ROM. 3. All configuration (administration) tools should look and work the same way. I myself hate to have 10 tools and 10 different ways to install these things (eg. some use a DOS program, some need MS Windows; or: look at named, inetd, nfs or even passwd, where I can configure every tool when I understand and know the correct syntax of its ascii-file: it's impossible for a novice user to work with that). 4. Plug'n Play: that sounds fine to me, but I do also know, that there are many cards which can't be installed like that. There may be problems de- tecting the hardware or something else. But I think the autoconfiguration mechanism of FreeBSD is the first step, where we should start working. It sounds good: autoconfiguration! But why do I have to fill in IRQs, DMA, Memoryadresses etc in the config-file of a kernel, when there is an autoconfiguration?? No, I'm not a frustrated user; I'm really fascinated from UNIX especially FreeBSD. But I think, if we want to compete with LINUX, OS/2 and Windows NT, there is a long way for us to go, and we should start walking at once ;-). Please don't flame me for my thoughts, but if we discuss how the installation procedure for 2.1 should look like and what the features of LINUX are, we can even discuss how FreeBSD 3.0 or 4.0 should look like and direct the current work in this direction. As long as I have to recommend OS/2 or Windows NT to my friends, FreeBSD or Linux is lost in space ;-). > > Thanks! > > Jordan Christian. cg@fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 10:16:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA24850 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:16:16 -0800 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24843 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:16:11 -0800 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA16273 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:09:46 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA01108; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:53:05 +0300 To: FreeBSD hackers , joerg_wunsch@uriah.sax.de References: <199501061555.QAA18202@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> In-Reply-To: <199501061555.QAA18202@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de>; from J Wunsch at Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:55:19 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:53:04 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.31 FreeBSD] From: "Andrew A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: {login,getty}.core Lines: 21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 898 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199501061555.QAA18202@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de> J Wunsch writes: >On our network access machine, a 1.1.5 system on a 486, we're >constantly getting cores from login and getty, triggered by SIGQUIT's, >as the log tells us. >After recompiling both programs static (to debug the cores), they >became `silent'. The only core dump i could get hold of from a static >binary displayed the signal somewhere in ioctl(), qprobably when >switching back from raw mode. >Any explanations? (They are not serious, but annoying.) I ignore SIGQUIT in getty in 2.x, it can easily come from serial line. -- Andrew A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 10:37:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA25283 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:37:15 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA25277 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:37:14 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20067; Fri, 6 Jan 95 11:31:29 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9501061831.AA20067@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: sio.c, wd.c, if_ed.c & PCMCIA To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 11:31:29 MST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501060944.BAA02736@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 6, 95 01:44:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have been studying rather heavily the last three weeks and belive I have > the PCMCIA understood now. I have looked at the Linux stuff and I have read > a couple of books on the subject (All the ones I have been able to find: two). You need to get a copy of the standards documents. This will be $120 (I think that's what I paid -- I may have it confused with the $80 I paid for the PCI documentation) if the company you work for is a member of the consortium, more (up to twice that) if not. They also have dummy cards and architectural overviews available. You also need to get a copy of the Intel and IBM databooks. There are four different interface chip families -- the Intel and IBM books will cover the most popular ones, and the largest number of chips. There is one european and one Japanese family that aren't just clones of the Intel chips (the IBM is a clone of the Intel chip, but returns a different ID than the Intel chips). There is one obsolete laptop that uses the European chipset -- I think it was nearly the first PCMCIA capable machine, actually. I'll need to bring the chip/family lists from home to give them to you, and I'll try to dig up the 800 number for the consortium at the same time. > I have a prototype running now, which will detect and configure my Megahertz > modem or my Infomover correctly on boot. The next step is to make it work > when the cards are swapped. > > I think I have a workable architecture worked out. I will present this to > Soren in person this weekend, and if he doesn't send me to the "National > Home Of The Recursively Bewildered", I will write a architectural paper > on it and post it here during next week. > It requires some architectural changes which may or may not come for free > with the devfs, the main problems being the way the "softc" structure is > identified from the dev_t and power-management. > > If any major rewrites are planned for any of the drivers listed in the > subject, or for any other "PCMCIAble" device drivers, we should get the > PCMCIA support into it at the same time, so gimme a buzz before you > redesign any of them. I was considering this as a bus attach. My money is still up in the air as to whether it lands me an SMP'able PCI machine or a fast PCMCIA capable portable. Generally, I believe you want to probe and attach the devices as a bus of the PCMCIA "bus" -- these are bridge chips to ISA, typically, and the magic is the mapping of the device addresses into ISA addresses. Each chip typically handles two devices. If the architecture you have in mind is not considering the devices as a seperate attached bus (at best) or a controller with subdevices (at worst), then I think that it's perhaps the same trap that UnixWare has fallen into on this (Kurt Mahon, who wrote the UnixWare code for the 2.0 UnixWare product agrees on this). Currently, I don't have any PCMCIA devices, but I *do* have all of the documentation available from the consortium and copies or originals of all of the databooks. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 10:38:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA25346 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:38:08 -0800 Received: from uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu (uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu [128.174.57.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA25340 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:38:07 -0800 Received: by uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu id AA16999 (5.67b/IDA-1.3.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:38:04 -0600 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:38:04 -0600 From: Terry Lee Message-Id: <199501061838.AA16999@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI support for multiple LUNs? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk By default, sd devices only support LUN 0. I remember hearing before the reason is that some disks incorrectly report on all LUNs. So in order for LUN 1 on my Emulex MD21 to be recognized, I had to modify scsiconf.c . I'd like to add an entry to scsiconf.c so that Emulex sd devices are probed for multiple LUNs. But why is vendor info probe disabled for SCSI0 (which the MD21 is) devices? Is this specified in the SCSI specs.? I enabled the vendor info probe, and the MD21 was probed correctly. So, can vendor info probe be safely enabled for SCSI0 (thus all SCSI) devices? Thanks. Terry Lee terry@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 10:43:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA25534 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:43:56 -0800 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA25515; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:43:14 -0800 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA07232; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:42:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:42:22 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9501061842.AA07232@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: jim@reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) Cc: bugs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.0-R bug in setgroups() or sys/nfs/nfs_socket.c? In-Reply-To: References: Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < #ifdef HAVE_SETGROUPS > /* clear out all extra groups. We don't want to have to deal with them */ > { > gid_t dummy; > (void) setgroups(0, &dummy); > } > #endif /* HAVE_SETGROUPS */ > i cannot beleive that these other systems would behave the same (ie. panicing > on NFS if no gid). I suspect that, on those systems, the effective GID is not stored in groups[0]. > should setgroups() set at least one group (ie. from the gid field in > /etc/passwd)? I believe that setgroups() should enforce a requirement for at least one group. I'm not sure whether it should give an error and refuse to do anything, or just silently preserve the egid. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 10:55:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA25789 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:55:15 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA25783 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:55:14 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20156; Fri, 6 Jan 95 11:48:48 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9501061848.AA20156@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: 32 heads for enhanced IDE!? To: gvrooij@mmra1.ms.philips.nl (Guido van Rooij) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 11:48:47 MST Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, gvrooij@muxgw1.ms.philips.nl In-Reply-To: <9501061222.AA26078@mmra1.ms.philips.nl> from "Guido van Rooij" at Jan 6, 95 01:22:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am trying to help out a friend here that has problems installing 2.0R on > an enhanced IDE drive. I hope to find an answer as his company wants to > start using FreeBSD. I am afraid they will go on with Linux otherwise. > > In his BIOS setup, he entered 1048 cylinders, 16 heads and 63 sectors/track > > IDE_CONF reports: > Cyl Hds S/T > Bios reports 524 32 63 > Controller 1048 16 63 before reset > ,, ,, ,, ,, after reset > > The strange thing is the fact that the Bios reports something that is different > from its own setup!? The bios is an AMI one (on a P90 board). Typically Enhanced IDE operates by stealing a bit from one quantity to give to the other. The BIOS quantity *is* the translated view, taking this into account. There is a nice long Byte article on the whole thing. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 11:03:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA25971 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:03:58 -0800 Received: from crab.xinside.com (crab.xinside.com [199.120.247.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25965 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:03:55 -0800 Received: (jdc@localhost) by crab.xinside.com (8.6.8/8.6.5) id LAA02824; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:57:43 -0700 From: Jeremy Chatfield Message-Id: <199501061857.LAA02824@crab.xinside.com> Subject: Re: TimeLine To: gclarkii@neon.gbdata.com (Gary Clark II) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:57:43 +0000 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501061649.KAA10542@neon.gbdata.com> from "Gary Clark II" at Jan 6, 95 10:49:38 am Organization: X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Phone: +1(303)470-5302 Reply-To: jdc@crab.xinside.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1500 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk How about the date of first release of a commercial software product for FreeBSD? Cheers, JeremyC. Gary Clark II writes: > > Hi, > > I'm in the process of writing a book on FreeBSD and would like to verify > some dates of in the history of FreeBSD. Could someone please put a > month and year to the following events? > > > WFJ releases 386BSD 0.0 > UCB releases Net/2 > WFJ releases 386BSD 0.1 > Patch-kit started (who started it?) > 386BSD-pk2.4 put under CVS to start FreeBSD > FreeBSD Gamma released > FreeBSD Epsilon released > FreeBSD 1.0 released > FreeBSD 1.1 released > USL sends letters asking to cease and desist all distribution > UCB releases 4.4BSD-Lite > FreeBSD 2.0 released > > Thanks for any and all help. > Oh, and by the way, if anyone thinks I missed a major event please let me know! > > > Gary > > P.S. It might be better to reply by email rather than post to the list.... > > > -- > Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | The FreeBSD FAQ can be found on > gclarkii@freefall.cdrom.com | freefall.cdrom.com in > gclarkii@radon.gbdata.com | ~pub/FreeBSD/FAQ/FreeBSD.FAQ > Sales and Service for FreeBSD (mail info@gbdata.com for details) > -- Jeremy Chatfield, +1(303)470-5302, FAX:+1(303)470-5513, email:jdc@xinside.com X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Commercial X Server - for more information please try these services http://www.xinside.com info@xinside.com ftp.xinside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 11:32:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA27003 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:32:55 -0800 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA26997 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:32:53 -0800 From: ChenChi@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA00556; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:29:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:29:13 -0500 Message-Id: <950106142912_690006@aol.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: job posting - file system guru Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, We are a Silicon Valley startup looking for a kernel/filesystem guru. This seems like a possible place to start looking. We're building a core team which will be doing lot's of internals work. If you think you're a pretty strong hacker, as well as competent software engineer, please email me. Apologies if this is the wrong forum - please redirect me appropriately. Thanks. (FAX: 510/482-0878) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 12:31:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id MAA29194 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:31:18 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA29178 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:31:14 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id VAA08380 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:31:27 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23847; Fri, 6 Jan 95 21:31:37 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.frmug.fr.net (8.6.9/keltia-uucp-1.21) id VAA00587 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:18:49 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199501062018.VAA00587@keltia.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Allowing the display of a /etc/issue-like file by getty. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers' list) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:18:48 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 4752 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [it was eaten by majordomo, so here it is again] I missed a feature a friend of mine put in getty back to the old 386BSD days in getty so I have put in into our getty back. It enables one to get a /etc/issue (for example) displayed by getty. One may use a issue file per gettytab entry. The new keyword is "if". ------------------------------------------------------------ T|supra.19200|supra-19200:\ :cb:ce:ck:sp#19200:ap:cs#8:xa:np:\ :if=/etc/issue.terminal:\ :im=\r\n\r\n*** Keltia\r\n Welcomes Thee!\r\n\r\n:\ :lm=\r\n%h login\72 : S|supra.38400|supra-38400:\ :cb:ce:ck:sp#38400:ap:cs#8:xa:np:hw:\ :if=/etc/issue.modem:\ :im=\r\n\r\n*** Keltia\r\n Welcomes Thee!\r\n\ \r\nFreeBSD unix, dialup access\r\n:lm=\r\n%h login\72 : ------------------------------------------------------------ The default is /etc/issue. Please someone have a look at this and hopefully commit it ? Thanks. Index: gettytab.5 =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/getty/gettytab.5,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -c -2 -r1.2 gettytab.5 *** 1.2 1994/08/26 05:19:11 --- gettytab.5 1995/01/05 19:36:20 *************** *** 116,119 **** --- 116,121 ---- .It "hn str hostname hostname" .It "ht bool false terminal has real tabs" + .It "if str" Ta Pa /etc/issue Ta + .No "file to display before login prompt" .It "ig bool false ignore garbage characters in login name" .It "im str" Ta Dv NULL Ta *************** *** 213,216 **** --- 215,224 ---- This delay is simulated by repeated use of the pad character .Em \&pc . + .Pp + The file specified by the + .Em \&if + string is displayed before the login prompt. By default, it tries to open + .Dq Pa /etc/issue . + With that feature, you can have a different banner per gettytab entry. .Pp The initial message, and login message, Index: gettytab.h =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/getty/gettytab.h,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -c -2 -r1.2 gettytab.h *** 1.2 1994/08/26 05:19:12 --- gettytab.h 1995/01/05 19:37:05 *************** *** 85,88 **** --- 85,92 ---- #define WE gettystrs[22].value #define LN gettystrs[23].value + /* + * capability for if=/etc/issue -type file + */ + #define IF gettystrs[24].value /* Index: init.c =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/getty/init.c,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -c -2 -r1.2 init.c *** 1.2 1994/08/26 05:19:13 --- init.c 1995/01/05 19:37:54 *************** *** 75,78 **** --- 75,79 ---- { "we", <c.t_werasc }, /* word erase */ { "ln", <c.t_lnextc }, /* literal next */ + { "if", _PATH_ISSUE }, /* issue file */ { 0 } }; Index: main.c =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/getty/main.c,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -c -2 -r1.5 main.c *** 1.5 1994/09/18 04:14:54 --- main.c 1995/01/05 19:41:32 *************** *** 72,75 **** --- 72,77 ---- }; + static void cat_issue_file (); + int crmod, digit, lower, upper; *************** *** 235,238 **** --- 237,246 ---- alarm(TO); } + /* display the file specified by capability if, default to /etc/issue */ + if (*(IF) != '\0') + cat_issue_file(IF); + else + cat_issue_file(_PATH_ISSUE); + if (getname()) { register int i; *************** *** 501,502 **** --- 509,533 ---- ioctl(0, TIOCLSET, &allflags); } + + /* displays the file specified */ + + static void + cat_issue_file(filen) + char * filen; + { + register int fd, nchars; + char tbuf[1]; + + if (access(filen, R_OK) < 0) /* file specified doesn't exists */ + return; + if ((fd = open(filen, O_RDONLY, 0)) < 0) + return; + while ((nchars = read(fd, tbuf, sizeof(tbuf))) > 0) { + if (*tbuf == '\n' ) + putchr('\r'); + putchr(*tbuf); + } + (void)close(fd); + puts("\r\n"); + } + Index: pathnames.h =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/getty/pathnames.h,v retrieving revision 1.3 diff -c -2 -r1.3 pathnames.h *** 1.3 1994/08/26 05:19:15 --- pathnames.h 1995/01/05 19:41:48 *************** *** 38,39 **** --- 38,41 ---- #define _PATH_GETTYTAB "/etc/gettytab" #define _PATH_LOGIN "/usr/bin/login" + /* default banner file, override it with if= */ + #define _PATH_ISSUE "/etc/issue" -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #1: Fri Jan 6 20:33:32 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 12:49:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id MAA00233 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:49:52 -0800 Received: from europa.com (root@thetics.europa.com [199.2.194.14]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA00227 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 12:49:50 -0800 Received: by europa.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.15) id ; Fri, 6 Jan 95 12:47 GMT Message-Id: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 12:49 GMT From: timb@europa.com (Tim Bach) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone gotten the current version of FreeBSD running with slip.. I have tried what david suggested but i get undefined errors when trying to compile the kernel in a compile of progarms. Also i can't get ppp working with a annex server.Seems fine when i try other servers.Like for example got it working on a netblazer.IS there something i can suggest to the admin to fix this problem.Or something i can try in the ppp options that might make it work? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 13:59:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA03879 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:59:38 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA03873 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:59:36 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA11461; Fri, 6 Jan 95 15:59:21 -0600 Received: from woody.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.14/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.14)) id AA039649559; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:59:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:59:19 -0500 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <199501062159.AA039649559@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by woody.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.14/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.14)) id AA193709557; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:59:17 -0700 To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501061750.SAA00134@uhura> (cg@uhura) Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Christian" == DI Christian Gusenbauer writes: Christian> Here at our institute, many people fell in love with Christian> Micro$oft's NT (not me!), because it's so simple to Christian> install and to administer. I'm afraid I have to agree. I'm not terribly familiar with PC hardware. The main reason I invested in it is so I could have UNIX for my home business---oh, and so my wife could do research for her Ph.D. FreeBSD looked like the best free UNIX for me. Anyway, so when we needed Windows for a certain application, the last thing I wanted to do was learn how to specify an IRQ in some .INI file, what order I should put things in my CONFIG.SYS, or how to configure my display card. Having so many things auto-detected and pointed-and-clicked let me focus on the application, not the host configuration. The same was true of OS/2. Linux seems to be doing quite well mimicking this behavior---and amassing quite a user base. Doesn't Red Hat Software offer a similar CD to Yggdrasil's latest---with graphical administration tools? Christian> 1. We have to make configuring as easy as possible for Christian> those users, who never want to look 'behind the Christian> scenes'. There should be a way to install and configure Christian> FreeBSD for *non-experts*! Right. But I don't think we should exclude the experts either. Perhaps what's needed is two levels of installation. Or a Expert Configuraton option that can drop the system-admin-savvy into a shell. Christian> 2. [ Use a GUI installation ] Agreed. Like I said above, with Windows and OS/2, GUI installations mean I didn't have to learn all about the peculiarities of a certain OS. Why couldn't we do just enough autodetection/asking the user about the environment to start a bare-bones X server, running in simple VGA mode, perhaps running from the CD-ROM, which would let people point-and-click on packages they want, select IRQs for devices, video modes supported, printers attached, monitors hooked up, etc. Christian> 3. All configuration (administration) tools should look Christian> and work the same way. I myself hate to have 10 tools Christian> and 10 different ways to install these things I've got mixed feelings about this point. I think one of UNIX's best assets is that there *is* a uniform administration tool: the text editor. Of course, that hasn't stopped various vendors from grafting on their own vendor-specific versions: SMIT, sysadm, etc. While I don't want to see yet-another-supposedly-easy-to-use-admin- tool-that-prevents-me-from-changing-the-netmask-of-just-one-blasted- interface, I have to admit that people who don't know vi, emacs, ed, ex, etc., couldn't even begin to do the task. Just make it so that it doesn't overwrite what I put in by hand. Christian> 4. Plug'n Play: I thought it was a ``sufficiently difficult'' problem to do autoconfiguration on the ISA architecture. Isn't that why many vendors ship systems with software already installed & working & please don't alter the configuration or tech support won't answer your questions? Christian> As long as I have to recommend OS/2 or Windows NT to my Christian> friends, FreeBSD or Linux is lost in space ;-). We could take a few cues from OS/2 with their ``Onramp to the Information Superhighway'' that comes with OS/2 Warp. This might require some assistance from Walnut Creek: why not push the fact UNIX networking has run most of the Internet for years and now you can have that same power in your home/office/home-office. Include a PPP/SLIP account setup hosted by Walnut Creek (or maybe other locally-accessible) service providers. Include a WWW browser. It just might fly. --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 14:35:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA04475 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:35:07 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA04465 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:35:05 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA11847; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:34:51 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA18987; Fri, 6 Jan 95 16:33:31 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9501062233.AA18987@olympus> Subject: *.pl not in /usr/share/perl in 2.0 binary To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:33:30 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 382 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have found that *.pl files, e.g. ctime.pl, are not in /usr/share/perl for the 2.0-Release binary distribution. It is in current. Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner faulkner@isd.tandem.com _______________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 15:12:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA05328 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:12:51 -0800 Received: from mv.mv.com (shaman@mv.MV.COM [192.80.84.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA05322 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:12:49 -0800 Received: by mv.mv.com (8.6.9/mv(b)/mem-940616) id SAA11104 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:12:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:12:42 -0500 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199501062312.SAA11104@mv.mv.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ftp utility... Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi. I am planning to build a utility for freebsd, but wanted to find out (1) if such already existed and (2) if the freebsd team would like to include this in subsequent releases. Esssentially, it's built directly from your version of FTP. Give it a host and a list of files (including wildcards) and it gets them directly using anonymous login. ftpget host file... A second utility returns the directory listing from a particular point ftpdir host path This is a result of me being slowed down by the command line interface to ftp when all I wanted to to was get a single file I knew that path of. Anyway, if it is already extant or in progress, there is no reason for me to build it. If I do, how much I document it depends upon whether ya'll are interested in it. Thanx for the input. -coranth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Coranth Gryphon Karma: You can't take it with you, but you can send it on ahead. E-Mail: gryphon@healer.com, shaman@mv.mv.com VoiceMail/Pager: (603) 599-0357 US-Mail: 97 Sutherland Road, No. Attleboro, MA 02760 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 15:33:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA06200 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:33:47 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA06192 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 15:33:45 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14307; Fri, 6 Jan 95 17:33:41 -0600 Received: from woody.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.14/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.14)) id AA075985208; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:33:28 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 18:33:28 -0500 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <199501062333.AA075985208@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by woody.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.14/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.14)) id AA195665206; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:33:26 -0700 To: timb@europa.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (timb@europa.com) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've used PPP successfully with two different Annex servers. Make sure both *your* modem and the *service provider's* modem aren't eating up xon/xoff chars. --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 16:07:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA06819 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:07:56 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA06811 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:07:54 -0800 Received: from digital.eng.umd.edu (digital.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.132]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id TAA29996; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:07:14 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by digital.eng.umd.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) id TAA11774; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:07:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:07:13 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-Reply-To: <199501061750.SAA00134@uhura> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Jan 1995, DI. Christian Gusenbauer wrote: > > This will take a little while to read and believe me, I know how much > > mail most of you get, but it's nonetheless worth slogging all the way > > through it. Yes, most of it is unabashed sales hype. Ignore that and > > concentrate on the features list. I have this CD and it's not lying > > about the degree of flexibility it provides. NetBSD is not the > > competition. This is. When and where we can match some of these > > features (and I not only think we can, I KNOW we can!), we should > > strive to do so! I certainly will be! > > Hi Everyone! > > After reading this forwarded info about the features, watching discussions > here at the University, speaking with friends I think it's time to plan > the future of FreeBSD. If we plan to support these features mentioned in that > article, we should think about how FreeBSD will present itself to the future > user. > > 2. It's a matter of fact, that all popular OS use GUIs (OS/2, Windows, > Apple, NextStep, ...). So why don't we use X right after the installation > to communicate with the user (yes, I know X needs lot of space, but > if we shrink X to a minimum it's perhaps possible?). So install a minimum > OS on the HD, copy a small X version to the disk, and start the X server. Caution on the GUI....making things work absolutely the first time is important here, and adding in the configuration for video cards is risky stuff for a lot of users. It could work nicely, if it's restricted to a very simple video mode.... ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 17:00:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA10216 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:00:11 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA10189 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:59:49 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA12879; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:59:10 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199501070059.QAA12879@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: *.pl not in /usr/share/perl in 2.0 binary To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:59:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501062233.AA18987@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Jan 6, 95 04:33:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 622 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I have found that *.pl files, e.g. ctime.pl, are not in /usr/share/perl for > the 2.0-Release binary distribution. It is in current. I have noticed this and fixed part of it, the *.pl files now get installed into the right places, there is still a problem with the h2pl stuff always stomping into /usr/include no mater what DESTDIR is set to. I have not had a chance to get back to fixing this second bug, it looks as if it should work, but it does not :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 17:08:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA10528 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:08:35 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10520 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:08:31 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA12927; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:07:58 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199501070107.RAA12927@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: *.pl not in /usr/share/perl in 2.0 binary To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:07:57 -0800 (PST) Cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501070059.QAA12879@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jan 6, 95 04:59:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 882 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > I have found that *.pl files, e.g. ctime.pl, are not in /usr/share/perl for > > the 2.0-Release binary distribution. It is in current. > > I have noticed this and fixed part of it, the *.pl files now get installed > into the right places, there is still a problem with the h2pl stuff always > stomping into /usr/include no mater what DESTDIR is set to. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ooopss.. meant /usr/share/perl > > I have not had a chance to get back to fixing this second bug, it looks as > if it should work, but it does not :-(. > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 19:03:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA12292 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:03:16 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA12284 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:03:12 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA13555; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:00:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jan 95 18:50:28 +0100." <199501061750.SAA00134@uhura> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 19:00:04 -0800 Message-ID: <13554.789447604@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1. We have to make configuring as easy as possible for those users, who > never want to look 'behind the scenes'. There should be a way to install > and configure FreeBSD for *non-experts*! Well, I think we all agree to this, what we really need to agree on is the *framework*. How does this all-singing and all-dancing configuration environment work? Scripts? Some sort of TCL based tool? What? We've had a few abortive attempts at this in the past, but nothing that anybody could ever really use to build a complete configuration management system! > 2. It's a matter of fact, that all popular OS use GUIs (OS/2, Windows, > Apple, NextStep, ...). So why don't we use X right after the installation > to communicate with the user (yes, I know X needs lot of space, but > if we shrink X to a minimum it's perhaps possible?). So install a minimum > OS on the HD, copy a small X version to the disk, and start the X server. The problem is not one of space - the problem is getting X up and working on a user's system! This still remains one of the hardest parts of a general FreeBSD install, and until the XFRee86 Project, Inc comes up with something more _seamless_, it's rather difficult to count on having X available on any users system! :-( > I also think, that - in future - only a couple of users will install > an OS from disks. The installation medium will be the CD-ROM. That'd be nice.. :-) > 3. All configuration (administration) tools should look and work the same > way. I myself hate to have 10 tools and 10 different ways to install these > things (eg. some use a DOS program, some need MS Windows; or: look at > named, inetd, nfs or even passwd, where I can configure every tool when > I understand and know the correct syntax of its ascii-file: it's impossibl Framework! Framework! Somebody needs to write this kind of framework! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 19:53:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA13245 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:53:43 -0800 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA13236; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:53:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:53:42 -0800 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199501070353.TAA13236@freefall.cdrom.com> To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Why does someone need to invent a new installation framework? What's wrong w/ using the Yggdrasil installation framework? Jeffrey From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 19:57:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA13397 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:57:00 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA13391 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:56:59 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14485; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:55:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jan 95 16:59:19 EST." <199501062159.AA039649559@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 19:55:52 -0800 Message-ID: <14484.789450952@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > We could take a few cues from OS/2 with their ``Onramp to the > Information Superhighway'' that comes with OS/2 Warp. This might > require some assistance from Walnut Creek: why not push the fact UNIX > networking has run most of the Internet for years and now you can have > that same power in your home/office/home-office. Include a PPP/SLIP > account setup hosted by Walnut Creek (or maybe other > locally-accessible) service providers. Include a WWW browser. It > just might fly. Believe me, this is something we're aggressively targeting! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 20:07:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA13892 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:07:13 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA13884 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:07:07 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA09505 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:08:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199501070408.VAA09505@clem.systemsix.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jan 1995 19:07:13 EST." Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 21:08:17 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> 2. It's a matter of fact, that all popular OS use GUIs (OS/2, Windows, >> Apple, NextStep, ...). So why don't we use X right after the installation Check out the HTML install documents that come with the NCSA httpd-1.3 package, they make a fairly complex setup quite simple. Package: httpd_docs.tar.g, available from NCSA Files: httpd_1.3/docs/setup/* 'home': httpd_1.3/docs/setup/Install.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 20:13:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA14171 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:13:40 -0800 Received: from physics.su.OZ.AU (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA14161 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:13:35 -0800 Received: by physics.su.OZ.AU id AA27896 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:12:05 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199501070412.AA27896@physics.su.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:12:04 +1100 (EST) Cc: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <13554.789447604@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 6, 95 07:00:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1346 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> 2. It's a matter of fact, that all popular OS use GUIs (OS/2, Windows, >> Apple, NextStep, ...). So why don't we use X right after the installation >> to communicate with the user (yes, I know X needs lot of space, but >> if we shrink X to a minimum it's perhaps possible?). So install a minimum >> OS on the HD, copy a small X version to the disk, and start the X server. > >The problem is not one of space - the problem is getting X up and >working on a user's system! This still remains one of the hardest >parts of a general FreeBSD install, and until the XFRee86 Project, Inc >comes up with something more _seamless_, it's rather difficult to >count on having X available on any users system! :-( It should be possible to get the 16-colour or mono server (our 16 colour server is quite slow so the mono server is probably a better option) running on any VGA-compatible card at the standard 640x480 VGA resolution using the provided sample XF86Config file. The only bit that needs configuring to do this is the mouse protocol/device setting. That's the mode MS Windows will run in until you install a card-specific driver. To do anything much more adventurous is in my opinion doomed to failure. If people still have EGA cards, they are out of luck. Our mono server will run on the old Hercules mono cards though. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 20:31:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA15095 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:31:44 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA15084; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:31:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA17848; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 20:31:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jan 95 19:53:42 PST." <199501070353.TAA13236@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 20:31:35 -0800 Message-ID: <17847.789453095@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Why does someone need to invent a new installation framework? What's wrong > w/ using the Yggdrasil installation framework? Has anyone actually looked into it in that depth? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 21:31:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA16648 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:31:58 -0800 Received: from ns.gte.com (ns.gte.com [132.197.8.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA16642 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:31:57 -0800 Received: from bunny.gte.com by ns.gte.com (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4) id AA20740; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 00:29:48 -0500 Received: by bunny.gte.com (8.6.9/GTEL2.19) id AAA01589; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 00:31:06 -0500 Received: from localhost by genesis.nred.ma.us (8.3/genesis0.0) id XAA02772; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:38:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:38:17 -0800 From: steve2@genesis.nred.ma.us (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199501070738.XAA02772@genesis.nred.ma.us> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 24F commit needed Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Could someone please commit the following change to the 24F driver? Apparently some cards have trouble reading xC86 and this causes the probe to fail. The check to see if the card is in ISA mode is not really necessary. Also, someone built a special boot disk with some debugging code for a Gary Jackson that was having trouble. Could this someone build another boot disk once the patch is applied? This should take care of his booting problems. I'd do it myself but I'm not running 2.0 yet. Thanks, - Steve steve2@genesis.nred.ma.us ---- snip snip snip snip ---- *** ultra14f.c.2 Thu Nov 10 01:18:29 1994 --- ultra14f.c Fri Jan 6 23:25:46 1995 *************** *** 921,928 **** uha24_init(unit) int unit; { ! unsigned char p0, p1, p2, p3, p5, p6, p7; ! unsigned char id[7], rev, emu, haid; int slot, port, irq, i; int resetcount = 4000; struct uha_data *uha = uhadata[unit]; --- 921,928 ---- uha24_init(unit) int unit; { ! unsigned char p0, p1, p2, p3, p5, p7; ! unsigned char id[7], rev, haid; int slot, port, irq, i; int resetcount = 4000; struct uha_data *uha = uhadata[unit]; *************** *** 988,999 **** /* We have the card! Grab remaining config. */ p5 = inb(ur->config); - p6 = inb(ur->config+1); p7 = inb(ur->config+2); - - /* If the 24F is currently emulating an ISA device, leave. */ - emu = ((p6 & 0x04) >> 1) | ((p5 & 0x08) >> 3); - if (emu != 3) return(ENODEV); switch (p5 & 0xf0) { case 0x10: irq = 15; break; --- 988,994 ---- ---- EOF EOF EOF EOF ---- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 6 23:03:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA17076 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:03:18 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA17066 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:03:17 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA07527; Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:03:11 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199501070703.XAA07527@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Dear Terry... To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 23:03:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9501061831.AA20067@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 6, 95 11:31:29 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1449 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > You need to get a copy of the standards documents. This will be $120 (I > think that's what I paid -- I may have it confused with the $80 I paid > for the PCI documentation) if the company you work for is a member of the > consortium, more (up to twice that) if not. They also have dummy cards > and architectural overviews available. > > You also need to get a copy of the Intel and IBM databooks. There are Sometimes I can't help it, I get these weird ideas... When I read this email I felt like a Roman emperor, on my march of triumph through Rome, and while my heart swells with pride I have this slave wispering in my ear: "remember cesar, thou art mortal!" (look it up!) Well, I just wanted to say thanks! Sometimes we need a devils advocate ! regarding PCMCIA. I personally think that the PCMCIA spec suffers from needless generality. My plan is to implement the things we actually want to have, as opposed to things we might want to be able to do some day. That means that I will be looking for a simple framework and a lightweight implementation. The single most popular cards will be modems, ethers, disks and possibly SCSIs. I am somewhat interested in execute_in_place from a FLASH card too, but apart from that, I don't really plan to carry it further. Have a nice weekend! -- Poul-Henning Kamp TRW Financial Systems, Inc. FreeBSD has, until now, not one single time had an undetected error. :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 01:04:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA17842 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:04:58 -0800 Received: from gagme.wwa.com (root@gagme.wwa.com [198.49.174.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA17836 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:04:55 -0800 Received: by gagme.wwa.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0rQXEz-000FDmC; Sat, 7 Jan 95 03:15 CST Message-Id: From: joeg@wwa.com (joe grosch) Subject: page fault while in kernel mode To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:15:16 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1273 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, I've recompiled the kernel with kernel debug options and now have the problem to the point that I can consistently reproduce this problem. I start a tar listing of a tape and push it into the background ie. tar tvf /dev/rwt0 > tape.list & I then start up emacs and crank up gdb under emacs. gdb starts up fine altho I can hear that the disk is VERY busy. As soon as try to run the program inside gdb I get a page fault. I get dropped into the kernel debugger. I am not very good with the kernel debugger but I do a trace and the debugger tells me the following; _pmap_enter( ... ) _vm_fault( ... ) _pwrite( ... ) _ptrace( ... ) _syscall( ... ) Has anyone else gotten to this point? Have I stumbled over an old bug? or is this a new bug. My source is WC's CDROM (FreeBSD2.0). My system is a 386SX40 with 4 meg of memory, a one gig SCSI disk with 50 meg of swap. I'll write up a more complete discription of the results of the kernel debug session tomorrow (It's 3am). Josef -- __/\__ | Josef Grosch | "It's been a quiet week in Lake \ / | (708) 291-9076 | Wobegon, my home town..." /_ _\ | | \/ | joeg@wwa.com | -Prairie Home Companion From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 01:17:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA18071 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:17:55 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18065 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:17:50 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA25221; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:17:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Dear Terry... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jan 95 23:03:10 PST." <199501070703.XAA07527@ref.tfs.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 01:17:28 -0800 Message-ID: <25220.789470248@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Well, I just wanted to say thanks! Sometimes we need a devils advocate ! Oh, Terry has always been the Devil's prime advocate! :-) > My plan is to implement the things we actually want to have, as opposed to > things we might want to be able to do some day. That means that I will > be looking for a simple framework and a lightweight implementation. Hear hear! No pantywaist university-project implementation for us! Real functions, for real men! API? Hahahaha! Don't make us laugh. Microsoft writes to APIs! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 01:42:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA18263 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:42:22 -0800 Received: from uhura (slip3.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.5.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18257 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:42:18 -0800 Received: (from cg@localhost) by uhura (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA00237; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 10:36:14 +0100 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 10:36:14 +0100 From: "DI. Christian Gusenbauer" Message-Id: <199501070936.KAA00237@uhura> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information" (Jan 6, 6:59pm) Reply-To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > 1. We have to make configuring as easy as possible for those users, who > > never want to look 'behind the scenes'. There should be a way to install > > and configure FreeBSD for *non-experts*! > > Well, I think we all agree to this, what we really need to agree on is > the *framework*. How does this all-singing and all-dancing > configuration environment work? Scripts? Some sort of TCL based > tool? What? We've had a few abortive attempts at this in the past, I know :-) > but nothing that anybody could ever really use to build a complete > configuration management system! Yes and no. Half a year ago, I wrote a control panel application which works like the Windows one and a user management utility. I posted that to the net and about 60 people got a copy but I got only two or three responses. Yes, that's not a complete configuration management but - in my opinion - it can be the first step. Unfortunately, I don't have much spare time, so I can't write the whole configuration management system by myself :-(! > > 3. All configuration (administration) tools should look and work the same > > way. I myself hate to have 10 tools and 10 different ways to install these > > things (eg. some use a DOS program, some need MS Windows; or: look at > > named, inetd, nfs or even passwd, where I can configure every tool when > > I understand and know the correct syntax of its ascii-file: it's impossibl > > Framework! Framework! Somebody needs to write this kind of > framework! :-) > > Jordan Get a copy of cpl-0.1.tar.gz from our fileserver fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, directory /pub/soft/unix! That might be a framework! Christian. cg@fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 01:46:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA18314 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:46:44 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18308 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:46:43 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA25295 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:46:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: The Meta-dir file for info. Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 01:46:38 -0800 Message-ID: <25294.789471998@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Who was talking about that awhile back, Satoshi? Well whatever you want to call it, we need one. We need a dir file that's looked at by /usr/bin/info, which we now install by default (didn't know that, eh? :), and which points to: 1. All the top nodes of various info packages provided by /usr/src/gnu/* and installed into /usr/share/info. (e.g. our own doc should have a pointer, at the very least) 2. Any and all _additional_ GNU or other whatsits that want to paste an entry into it! This means that a package should be able to drop its pages into /usr/local/info someplace and then run some specialized utility (addinfo? addtop?) to add a pointer to it to the "global" dir file. We could probably do this immediately by just inventing a magic cookie format for marking a section in the dir file. Say you seed the file initially with something like this: -*- Text -*- This is the file .../info/dir, which contains the topmost node of the .. blah blah blah ..  File: dir Node: Top This is the top of the INFO tree This (the Directory node) gives a menu of major topics. Typing "d" returns here, "q" exits, "?" lists all INFO commands, "h" gives a primer for first-timers, "mTexinfo" visits Texinfo topic, etc. --- PLEASE ADD DOCUMENTATION TO THIS TREE. (See INFO topic first.) --- * Menu: The list of major topics begins on the next line. * Info: (info). Documentation browsing system. * Texi: (texi). TexInfo guide. * Makeinfo: (makeinfo). Makeinfo guide. /*/[editors] Text Editors /*/[utils] Utilities /*/[devel] Development Tools [EOF] Assuming our cookie is `/*/', we have three markers: editors, utils & devel. Now, when our intrepid package wishes to register itself, let's say it calls our little utility like so: info_install -c editors -h "The GNU EMACS Editor, version 19.27" \ -d /usr/local/info -f emacs -i The result being the dir file now looks like this: ... * Menu: The list of major topics begins on the next line. * Info: (info). Documentation browsing system. * Texi: (texi). TexInfo guide. * Makeinfo: (makeinfo). Makeinfo guide. * Emacs: (emacs). The GNU EMACS Editor, version 19.27 * Emacs is a large, comprehensive editor for blah blah blah .. * /*/[editors] Various Editors /*/[utils] Utilities /*/[devel] Development Tools And if you then did the following from devel/gmake: info_install -c devel -h "The GNU Make Utility, version 3.26" \ -d /usr/local/info -f make.info You'd see: ... * Texi: (texi). TexInfo guide. * Makeinfo: (makeinfo). Makeinfo guide. * Emacs: (emacs). The GNU EMACS Editor, version 19.27 * Emacs is a large, comprehensive editor for blah blah blah .. * /*/[editors] Various Editors * Make: (make.info). The GNU Make Utility, version 3.26 /*/[editors] Various Editors /*/[utils] Utilities /*/[devel] Development Tools Capiche? I dunno, It Just Might Work. And it'd be damned nice to have `info' actually be a truly meaninful command! A dir file pointing to any and all info available as the system matured would be NICE, and I can see many ways for the port system to cooperate nicely. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 01:55:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA18424 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:55:59 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18418 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:55:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA25406; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:55:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Coranth Gryphon cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp utility... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jan 95 18:12:42 EST." <199501062312.SAA11104@mv.mv.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 01:55:51 -0800 Message-ID: <25405.789472551@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi. I am planning to build a utility for freebsd, but wanted to > find out (1) if such already existed and (2) if the freebsd team > would like to include this in subsequent releases. Have you looked at ncftp? It's bundled with the system. Try, for example: ncftp ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.0-RELEASE/README > A second utility returns the directory listing from a particular point > > ftpdir host path This is one thing that ncftp *won't* to, and would be useful. Actually, it would be kind of nice to be able to add it to ncftp! Perhaps if -I was set, it could assume that you REALLY didn't want to go into interactive mode and it should simple do the next logical thing? Actually, ncftp goes into interactive mode a little too easily for my tastes anyway. I don't like it kicking up on errors and wedging my port builds! :-( But that's another problem.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 02:01:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA18636 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:01:44 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA18615 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:01:41 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA25537; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:01:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: gusw@fub46.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Gunther Schadow) cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: new device driver for scanner In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 02:00:14 GMT." <9501070200.AA02167@fub46.zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 02:01:21 -0800 Message-ID: <25536.789472881@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just uploaded a new device driver for a handy scanner (Genius GS-4500) > to freebsd.cdrom.com:/incoming/FreeBSD/gscanner.tar.z. The driver works > pretty well and it comes with a utility by which you can modify the para- > meters like resolution, timeout value and more. With this driver you can > produce pbm files by just copying from it, i.e. a `cat /dev/gsc0p > my.pbm' > will do the whole job. Hey, that's really great, thanks! [Translation: "Boah! Ist das aber Geil!!"] :-) > for people with other hardware. Will the driver work for other handys? Or > will it work after only few modifications? Please send me your experiences > and I am also willing to help. Will do. Let me see how hard this is to integrate - not very, I hope! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 02:01:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA18635 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:01:44 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA18616 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:01:41 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA25425; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 01:59:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: *.pl not in /usr/share/perl in 2.0 binary In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jan 95 17:07:57 PST." <199501070107.RAA12927@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 01:59:13 -0800 Message-ID: <25424.789472753@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Ooopss.. meant /usr/share/perl > > > > > I have not had a chance to get back to fixing this second bug, it looks as > > if it should work, but it does not :-(. Well, that mkvars script in there is definitely one thing that has /usr/share/perl wired into it! But it doesn't appear to output anything there, only read. Still, it's broken for ${DESTDIR}. I'll keep looking.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 02:20:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id CAA18933 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:20:49 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA18927 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:20:46 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA25755; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 02:19:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: David Dawes cc: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 15:12:04 +1100." <199501070412.AA27896@physics.su.OZ.AU> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 02:19:58 -0800 Message-ID: <25754.789473998@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It should be possible to get the 16-colour or mono server (our 16 > colour server is quite slow so the mono server is probably a better > option) running on any VGA-compatible card at the standard 640x480 VGA > resolution using the provided sample XF86Config file. The only bit that > needs configuring to do this is the mouse protocol/device setting. That's > the mode MS Windows will run in until you install a card-specific driver. > To do anything much more adventurous is in my opinion doomed to failure. Actually, if you did the interface right, you wouldn't even need a mouse! Just grab the server by the throat and demand all keystrokes. Do your own keystroke-based windows navigation even. Write a window manager-cum-GUI interface. But are you *really* sure you could get that VGA screen up there 99 times out of 100? Let's say, as reliably as SCO's seems to come up in VGA mode on totally weird and whacked out hardware? I don't like SCO, but it definitely runs on a lotta shit! [and I suppose you could read that last sentence in various ways :-)] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 03:07:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA20320 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:07:20 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA20314 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:07:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA26020; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:06:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 10:36:14 +0100." <199501070936.KAA00237@uhura> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 03:06:42 -0800 Message-ID: <26019.789476802@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Get a copy of cpl-0.1.tar.gz from our fileserver fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, > directory /pub/soft/unix! That might be a framework! I'm looking at it now! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 03:26:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA20514 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:26:40 -0800 Received: from physics.su.OZ.AU (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA20508 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:26:39 -0800 Received: by physics.su.OZ.AU id AA01368 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:25:58 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199501071125.AA01368@physics.su.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:25:57 +1100 (EST) Cc: dawes@physics.su.oz.au, cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <25754.789473998@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 7, 95 02:19:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1586 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> It should be possible to get the 16-colour or mono server (our 16 >> colour server is quite slow so the mono server is probably a better >> option) running on any VGA-compatible card at the standard 640x480 VGA >> resolution using the provided sample XF86Config file. The only bit that >> needs configuring to do this is the mouse protocol/device setting. That's >> the mode MS Windows will run in until you install a card-specific driver. >> To do anything much more adventurous is in my opinion doomed to failure. > >Actually, if you did the interface right, you wouldn't even need a >mouse! Just grab the server by the throat and demand all keystrokes. >Do your own keystroke-based windows navigation even. Write a window >manager-cum-GUI interface. But are you *really* sure you could get >that VGA screen up there 99 times out of 100? Let's say, as reliably >as SCO's seems to come up in VGA mode on totally weird and whacked out >hardware? I don't like SCO, but it definitely runs on a lotta shit! > >[and I suppose you could read that last sentence in various ways :-)] :-) I think the SCO server can use the BIOS to initialise video modes, so that would improve its success rate. It'd be nice if we could do the same. I did say "VGA compatible". The generic driver in those Xservers shouldn't assume anything other than "standard VGA" (which I guess means register compatible with IBM's original VGA). I think the only problems I've heard of are with some P9000 based cards (probably using Weitek's W5x86 SVGA chip), but I'll see if I can follow that up. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 03:40:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA20884 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:40:04 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA20876 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:40:03 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA04290; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:38:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: David Dawes cc: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 22:25:57 +1100." <199501071125.AA01368@physics.su.OZ.AU> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 03:38:46 -0800 Message-ID: <4281.789478726@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I did say "VGA compatible". The generic driver in those Xservers > shouldn't assume anything other than "standard VGA" (which I guess > means register compatible with IBM's original VGA). I think the only > problems I've heard of are with some P9000 based cards (probably using > Weitek's W5x86 SVGA chip), but I'll see if I can follow that up. Well, if I haven't perhaps made my enthusiasm for this clear, just let me now say that I would LOVE to be able to leverage off the X server! I've wanted this for years! Boy, what you couldn't whip up in tk...! It makes me all giggly just thinking about it. Ok, so it doesn't. I lied. But will it *work*, that is the question. The burning issue. Can't have an install that 10% of your population can't run. Wouldn't be very cricket, that. So unless somebody can point me at a Tk API compatible library that uses curses instead of X (so you could have `install' and `xinstall'), I don't see us even trying to use X based installers unless there was a pretty high success rate! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 03:51:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id DAA28047 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:51:45 -0800 Received: from physics.su.OZ.AU (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA28000 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 03:51:43 -0800 Received: by physics.su.OZ.AU id AA01583 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:51:31 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199501071151.AA01583@physics.su.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:51:30 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4281.789478726@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 7, 95 03:38:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1208 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I did say "VGA compatible". The generic driver in those Xservers >> shouldn't assume anything other than "standard VGA" (which I guess >> means register compatible with IBM's original VGA). I think the only >> problems I've heard of are with some P9000 based cards (probably using >> Weitek's W5x86 SVGA chip), but I'll see if I can follow that up. > >Well, if I haven't perhaps made my enthusiasm for this clear, just let >me now say that I would LOVE to be able to leverage off the X server! >I've wanted this for years! Boy, what you couldn't whip up in tk...! >It makes me all giggly just thinking about it. Ok, so it doesn't. I >lied. But will it *work*, that is the question. The burning issue. >Can't have an install that 10% of your population can't run. Wouldn't >be very cricket, that. So unless somebody can point me at a Tk API >compatible library that uses curses instead of X (so you could have >`install' and `xinstall'), I don't see us even trying to use X based >installers unless there was a pretty high success rate! I agree. The success rate has to be very high if there is no text-mode alternative. Perhaps we need to get an idea of what the success rate might be. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 04:00:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id EAA10628 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 04:00:38 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA10622 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 04:00:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA18312; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 04:00:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: David Dawes cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 22:51:30 +1100." <199501071151.AA01583@physics.su.OZ.AU> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 04:00:28 -0800 Message-ID: <18311.789480028@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > alternative. Perhaps we need to get an idea of what the success rate > might be. I'm open to suggestions.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 05:33:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA12848 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 05:33:03 -0800 Received: from eros.britain.eu.net (eros.Britain.EU.net [192.91.199.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA12842 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 05:32:48 -0800 Received: from sixnine.gid.co.uk by eros.britain.eu.net with UUCP id ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 13:32:23 +0000 Received: by gid.co.uk (smail2.5) id AA11087; Sat, 7 Jan 95 12:54:54 GMT Message-Id: <8449.199501071218@seagoon.gid.co.uk> Received: from [192.9.200.25] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:18:50 GMT PP-warning: Illegal Via field on preceding line X-Sender: rb@seagoon.gid.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:19:19 +0000 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Subject: 2.0R install problem Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've encountered an odd problem trying to install 2.0R on a 486SX system. Initial phases from floppy go OK, but on rebooting from the hard disk the network doesn't come up properly. Ping works (to/from a variety of other systems), but anything higher level (telnet, ftp, NFS) doesn't: looks like only one direction of transmission is working. Thus I can't get any further. Hardware is unremarkable: 486SX25, AMI BIOS 8MB 420MB IDE NE2000 clone Trident 8900 SVGA and runs 1.1R (or NT 3.5 :-{ ) just fine. I've installed the same distribution with no problems on a 486DX66 with IDE & SCSI, Mitsumi CDROM, NE2100; but that was straight off the CD (Infomagic/BSDisc). Any ideas? Any chance this is SX specific? -- Bob Bishop (01734) 774017 international code +44 1734 rb@gid.co.uk fax (01734) 894254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 05:39:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA12992 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 05:39:56 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id FAA12985 for hackers; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 05:39:55 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 05:39:55 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199501071339.FAA12985@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: thud again. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, it's on its way back (again). The make world is running now. Please don't try to use it for anything until I drop the flag on it - thanks! [this is *except* Gary Palmer, who is free to work on it as he sees fit while I sleep! ;)] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 06:29:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA14359 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 06:29:51 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA14347 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 06:29:39 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA00162 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 08:03:59 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA21261; 7 Jan 95 08:03:07 CST (Sat) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA21258; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 08:03:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199501071403.IAA21258@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: David Dawes , cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 03:38:46 PST." <4281.789478726@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 08:01:42 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It might be worth looking into SCO Visual TCL. It supports both curses and X-based interfaces. Licensing might be a problem... they don't claim the API just the implementation. A better solution might be to use Shellforms and write a Shellforms compatible parser that use Tk. A really *nifty* solution would be to use WWW forms, since there are already curses and X based interfaces to them. Authentication and security are likely to be problems, though. Plus you'd need to be running one of the HTTPDs. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 07:00:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA15671 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 07:00:43 -0800 Received: from NS.netvision.net.il (root@ns.NetVision.net.il [192.114.201.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA15662 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 07:00:38 -0800 Received: from Gena.NetVision.net.il (ts1p3.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.103]) by NS.netvision.net.il (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA08313 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:00:31 +0200 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 95 15:54:15 PST From: "Gennady B. Sorokopud" Subject: SCIOCCOMMAND ioctl To: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Chameleon 4.00-Arm-25, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello! Any knows if there is any particular reason why SCIOCCOMMAND ioctl in /sys/scsi/scsi_ioctl.c is disabled? -------------- #if 0 case SCIOCCOMMAND: { /* --------------- I tried to port xmcd ( cd player that uses motif interface and works directly with SCSI-2 devices ) so i needed it. Also does anyone have any experience working with it? Even after i "uncommented" it it does not work :( . Regards. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O Gennady Sorokopud O O O O E-Mail: gena@netvision.net.il O O O O http: http://www.netvision.net.il/~gena/ O O Tel: home: 972-4-835-227 Address: Sharet st. 21/7 O O K. Tivon , Israel O OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6 mQBNAi43i2YAAAECANV6d3p8bQLR6Hr2tyd9f4FEUakUIbF0YOtsiil3hR/ebGRe y4EC2Y45ZS7VPiP8Pp8zyAinWEtJ/tBKBYoHdPEABRG0LEdlbm5hZHkgQi4gU29y b2tvcHVkIDxnZW5hQG5ldHZpc2lvbi5uZXQuaWw+ =bvR+ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 07:29:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id HAA16918 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 07:29:16 -0800 Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA16910 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 07:29:15 -0800 Received: by plains.NoDak.edu; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:29:07 -0600 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:29:07 -0600 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199501071529.AA16555@plains.NoDak.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk We can implement good documentation, even some good tools, but there will be a need for human help. I know there are a lot of iron in the fire, and a lot of thinking about the future, and we need to think of human specialize (the dreaded financial compensated) support. Look at Sun, HP, NeXT, Apple attempts to make adminstration "easier". I am not opening up the cesspool of debate on whether they are "easier", but everything details are hidden to make life "easy" it makes life more impossible when disaster strikes. Admin tools are great, shipped features are great, but niether are all incompassing to users needs. For example a Linux user was in my office yesterday because he could not save files in ftp and it turns out he moved his directory per instructions in a Linux how-to manual and left the files are directories owned by root. This shows that the Linux how-to was done wrong (should have tar cf - DIR | (cd NEWDIR; tar xf -) not copy, and also shows that there will be one more thing a person wants to do that is not in the tool or in the documentaion that a DOS person converted to Unix admin will need to do. I am non-core person, so I can ramble and suggest things outloud and not appear to reflect the FreeBSD insider's thoughts. Yes, we do need documentation, yes, we do need some tools that simplify things that are commonly done, AND we are starting to need people to hold the hands of people that have a particular setup need or driver. Should this be done commerically or within a FreeBSD oganization is a question of debate. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 08:13:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id IAA18265 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 08:13:40 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA18259 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 08:13:38 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA12950; Sat, 7 Jan 95 17:13:40 +0100 Received: by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (SAA11274); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:14:54 +0100 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:14:54 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199501071714.SAA11274@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: SNAP on freebsd.cdrom.com (empty?) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wanted to download a binary snapshot of current but find the repository on freebsd empty. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD 2.0.1-Development #0: Wed Nov 2 23:00:17 1994 root@mvx1b1:/usr/src/sys/compile/JAZZ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 09:21:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA22219 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:21:19 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA22213 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:21:17 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA07987; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:21:57 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199501071721.MAA07987@hda.com> Subject: Re: SCIOCCOMMAND ioctl To: gena@netvision.net.il (Gennady B. Sorokopud) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:21:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Gennady B. Sorokopud" at Jan 7, 95 03:54:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1017 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Gennady B. Sorokopud writes: > > Hello! > Any knows if there is any particular reason why > SCIOCCOMMAND ioctl in /sys/scsi/scsi_ioctl.c is disabled? > -------------- > #if 0 > case SCIOCCOMMAND: > { > /* > --------------- > I tried to port xmcd ( cd player that uses motif interface and works > directly with SCSI-2 devices ) so i needed it. Also does anyone > have any experience working with it? Even after i "uncommented" it > it does not work :( . I have it working. Which version are you running? There are various "sutar?.gz" on freefall that implement it and a library layer. If you're running -current you can fetch "sutar7.gz" from freefall:pub/incoming. If you're running base 2.0 get "sutar6.gz". Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 -- Formerly hd@world.std.com. E-mail problems? Tell hdslip@iii.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 09:25:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA22336 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:25:15 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA22327 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:25:12 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA08014; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:26:07 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199501071726.MAA08014@hda.com> Subject: Commit testing To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:26:07 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 659 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How do committers test things? I want to commit changes to sys/scsi/* and sys/i386/isa/aha1542.c. (the diffs, if you want to see them, are on freefall in pub:incoming/sutar7.gz) How do you handle the time between when you've thoroughly tested something and you then check it into -current? By hoping and watching commit logs? And does anyone review changes before they are commited, and what is that process? Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 -- Formerly hd@world.std.com. E-mail problems? Tell hdslip@iii.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 09:29:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA22440 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:29:18 -0800 Received: from ess.harris.com (su15a.ess.harris.com [130.41.1.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA22431 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:29:16 -0800 Received: from suw2k.ess.harris.com by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA02734; Sat, 7 Jan 95 12:29:06 EST Received: by suw2k.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22644; Sat, 7 Jan 95 12:27:20 EST Date: Sat, 7 Jan 95 12:27:20 EST From: jleppek@suw2k.ess.harris.com (James Leppek) Message-Id: <9501071727.AA22644@suw2k.ess.harris.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: SBPro CDROM Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk With some code from Jordan I have a working cdrom driver for the SBpro but I have not been able to resolve some timeout/retry events that continue to occur. Does anyone have any additional information on the sb cdrom interface? If I can not resolve this any further this weekend I will put it into incoming as is. It does allow file access to the CD via mount -t cd9660 /dev/pcd0a /mnt_pt it is just slow because of the timeout/retry cycles, but its much better than nothing :-). Jim Leppek From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 10:05:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA23007 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 10:05:37 -0800 Received: from uhura (slip3.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.5.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23001 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 10:05:33 -0800 Received: (from cg@localhost) by uhura (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA00137; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:03:36 +0100 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:03:36 +0100 From: "DI. Christian Gusenbauer" Message-Id: <199501071803.TAA00137@uhura> In-Reply-To: David Dawes "Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information" (Jan 7, 10:51pm) Reply-To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: David Dawes , jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> I did say "VGA compatible". The generic driver in those Xservers > >> shouldn't assume anything other than "standard VGA" (which I guess > >> means register compatible with IBM's original VGA). I think the only > >> problems I've heard of are with some P9000 based cards (probably using > >> Weitek's W5x86 SVGA chip), but I'll see if I can follow that up. > > > >Well, if I haven't perhaps made my enthusiasm for this clear, just let > >me now say that I would LOVE to be able to leverage off the X server! > >I've wanted this for years! Boy, what you couldn't whip up in tk...! > >It makes me all giggly just thinking about it. Ok, so it doesn't. I > >lied. But will it *work*, that is the question. The burning issue. > >Can't have an install that 10% of your population can't run. Wouldn't > >be very cricket, that. So unless somebody can point me at a Tk API > >compatible library that uses curses instead of X (so you could have > >`install' and `xinstall'), I don't see us even trying to use X based > >installers unless there was a pretty high success rate! > > I agree. The success rate has to be very high if there is no text-mode > alternative. Perhaps we need to get an idea of what the success rate > might be. Maybe we build a database where we include information about VGA cards, clock rates etc. for a 640x480 screen which work. We can then ask users at startup (like Micro$oft's Windows Setup does) of the installation process what card he uses and if it's in the database, we can use the entry, because we know that this configuration works? I don't think that monitors have problem with displaying 640x480? So the success rate *should be* pretty high - or do I miss something? Christian. cg@fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 10:50:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA23219 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 10:50:37 -0800 Received: from smile.clinet.fi (smile.clinet.fi [193.64.6.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23213 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 10:50:32 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by smile.clinet.fi (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA06214; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:44:24 +0200 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:44:24 +0200 From: Heikki Suonsivu Message-Id: <199501071844.UAA06214@smile.clinet.fi> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Porting cyclades driver; sigh Reply-To: Heikki Suonsivu Organization: Helsinki University Of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [doesn't work yet, just banging my head to the wall to get some change while printing drafts] Driver interfaces: NetBSD has got ttymalloc & ttyfree; added into tty.[ch]. Don't know if they are correct but hope so. i386/conf.c is is pretty different; implemented the necessary fancy macros NetBSD has for exploding cdevsw entries and declarations. Leave rest to someone else; this should be merged. FreeBSD has got inb & friends in cpufunc.h; NetBSD has got pio.h for this purpose. Made conditional. Odd ones: NetBSD ttioctl has got struct proc * as its last argument; when did this hop in NetBSD, or outa FreeBSD? Is it necessary? Well, I just #ifdef it out for now and see how it explodes. If someone is already working on cy driver (or on some other c1400 board), let me know. Can't you guys settle at least for the driver interfaces, if not bicycles? :-/ I wouldn't mind someone shipping me a major number for cy driver, just in case I happen to get it working before I get pissed off and install linux... -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 11:16:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA23389 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:16:42 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA23382 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:16:39 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA14779; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:15:50 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199501071915.LAA14779@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: *.pl not in /usr/share/perl in 2.0 binary To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:15:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <25424.789472753@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 7, 95 01:59:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 612 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Ooopss.. meant /usr/share/perl > > > > > > > > I have not had a chance to get back to fixing this second bug, it looks as > > > if it should work, but it does not :-(. > > Well, that mkvars script in there is definitely one thing that has > /usr/share/perl wired into it! But it doesn't appear to output > anything there, only read. Still, it's broken for ${DESTDIR}. I'll > keep looking.. The but is in h2pl itself... > Jordan -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 12:14:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id MAA25113 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:14:45 -0800 Received: from reggae.ncren.net (reggae.ncren.net [128.109.131.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA25107 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:14:44 -0800 Received: from ponds.UUCP by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA23608; Sat, 7 Jan 95 15:14:17 -0500 Received: (rivers@localhost) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.9/8.6.5) id MAA06088; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:59:10 -0500 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:59:10 -0500 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199501071759.MAA06088@ponds.UUCP> To: freebsd-bugs@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: getwd() bug remains... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Several months ago I sparked a small debate about correcting getwd() when the size of the argument buffer isn't large enough to contain MAXPATHLEN characters. In this instance, the call to getwd() *always* dumps core. Although the man page does indicate that getwd of anything less than MAXPATHLEN is a no-no, in my opinion, it shouldn't automatically dump core no matter what. Certainly, that was not the behaviour getwd() had in the past, and the entire point of the compat-43 routines is to be compatible (as best as possible) with prior behaviour. Unfortunately, when rebuilding some of my (admittedly very old) programs, I ran into exactly the same problem again. I discovered that lib/libc/compat-43/getwd.c had not yet been changed. I proposed the following routine, which will only dump core when the actual directory name is larger than the argument buffer, not every time: char * getwd(buf) char *buf; { char tbuf[MAXPATHLEN]; if (getcwd(tbuf, MAXPATHLEN)) { strcpy(buf, tbuf); return buf; } (void)strcpy(buf, strerror(errno)); return((char *)NULL); } could someone _please_ commit this to 2.1 (or 2.0.5 if that ever occurs.) - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 12:27:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id MAA25182 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:27:52 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA25176 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 12:27:51 -0800 Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA20491; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 13:00:18 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199501072100.NAA20491@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: Commit testing To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 13:00:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501071726.MAA08014@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Jan 7, 95 12:26:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1751 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > How do committers test things? I want to commit changes to > sys/scsi/* and sys/i386/isa/aha1542.c. (the diffs, if you want to > see them, are on freefall in pub:incoming/sutar7.gz) How do you I've been running sutar6 (plus the resolution of some conflicts with Rod's scsi changes) ever since it was released. I haven't noticed anything unusual. > handle the time between when you've thoroughly tested something > and you then check it into -current? By hoping and watching commit > logs? Well, I usually thoroughly test my code, and when I'm ready to commit it, SUP current and rebuild, do about an hour or so of testing again, and commit. Then I re-sup, merge conflicts, and retest to see if I've left anything out or botched the commit. For future commits, I plan on checking out a brand new copy of the kernel sources (I sup CVS) in this phase since otherwise its hard to tell if you left anything out of the commit. > > And does anyone review changes before they are commited, and > what is that process? I think it depends on what you're doing. In the case of the aic7770 driver, there are very few people that would be able to review my changes. I guess it is more of an ownership kind of thing, but it would be nice to have a real policy on this. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation > HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 > dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 > -- Formerly hd@world.std.com. E-mail problems? Tell hdslip@iii.net > -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 13:12:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA27757 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 13:12:24 -0800 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27747 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 13:12:15 -0800 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA05164 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:49:39 -0500 From: Wankle Rotary Engine Message-Id: <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Graphical installations and such... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:49:33 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 13251 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I know that what I'm about to say probably won't be well received, but this is how I really feel, so I have to say say it: All this talk of trying to come up with an X/Tcl/Tk/whatever-based installation system touches a raw nerve in me. I happen to feel that this is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be avoided. There's been a lot of discussion over how to maximize the chances of getting X11R6 up and running on a user's system on the first shot, what sort of workarounds to use if X can't or won't come up, and, in general, how to make things easy for (possibly inexperienced) users. Well I think this is the wrong thing to do. It sounds almost like people want to turn FreeBSD into Windoze. Well forget it: that's a horrible idea. FreeBSD (and UNIX in general) is *NOT* Windoze, pure and simple. Don't bow to the pressure of clueless users who whine about the lack of a nice, glitzy graphical installation program: you'll spend so much time trying to cater to their whims that you'll lose sight of the more important goal, which is producing a stable and robust operating system. I'd rather have a killer OS with an ugly (though reliable) installation program than a clunker with a pretty face (like Windoze). And it's just plain dumb for people to be concentrating on making the install look pretty when there are device drivers that need tweaking. I don't think a graphical install should be an option at all. (Sorry Jordan: I know the thought of a pretty Tcl/Tk installation script makes you all warm and squishy inside, but you can't paint with broad stokes when all you have are small brushes.) You need to take into account the lowest common denominator, and right now that's a text display. Supposing someone wants to set up a dedicated server and they decide to use a junky CGA display board and CGA monitor that they happen to have lying around. Or, better still, supposing they decide not to use a display at all: what if they want to hang a dumb terminal off a serial port? (As an aside, it would be neat if there were some way to tell FreeBSD to use a serial port as a console at boot time, instead of having to hardwire it with 'options COMCONSOLE.' Anybody working on this?) Sure, you could come up with both a graphical and non-graphical install to make everybody happy, but there's still the matter of cramming the extra software onto the install floppies. Everybody, whether they want a greaphical install or not, will have to carry a bunch of excess bagage around. And don't hand me that line about installing from the CD-ROM: there are still plenty of people out there who download FreeBSD from the Internet and who depend on the floppy install method to get it running. There are also plenty of people who own CD-ROM drives that FreeBSD does not yet support. Face it: the floppy install will be around for a while, so it's in everybody's best interests to keep things small and simple. (Also, you'd be surprised at the stupid things people will do when they have 600 Mbytes of space to play with: Sun's Solaris 2.3 install goes through all the trouble of loading OpenWindows 3.3 off the installation CD just so it can run a text-based installation program inside a shelltool window. I'm not making this up.) Look: the X server alone is big. The X libraries are big. Statically linked X binaries are very big. Tck/Tk is big. Just how were you planning on fitting those big things onto the boot disk, hmmm? Sure, if you mount a CD-ROM as your root filesystem you can get around this problem, but that won't be an option until FreeBSD supports more CD-ROM drives. The initial boot disk is needed to partition the user's hard drive so that the second stage of the install can be loaded. Once that's done, you could load all kinds of software from any number of 'cpio floppies,' but using a graphical installation just for the second part of the install is stupid: I refuse to believe that a memory-sucking X11-based monstrosity is really needed just to unpack a lousy bunch of tar files. That's what this boils down to, folks: burying a couple of otherwise simple operations under tons and tons of graphical manure, just to make some simpletons happy. It's been established that UNIX, in general, works, and works well. It's also been established that it isn't as maddeningly inscrutable as people alledge it to be. Hell, I learned to deal with it, and I'm an idiot. There's a reason for that (that I learned to deal with UNIX that is, not that I'm an idiot): I took C programming and UNIX internals courses in college. These didn't exactly elevate me to the same level of expertise as Ken or Dennis, but without them I'd probably still be fumbling around in the dark. (I'd also probably still think that VMS was cool, but that's another matter entirely. :) The point is that fancy shmancy graphics front-ends are no substitute for a couple of semesters of computer science courses. (Or reading a book.) There's only one cure for inexperienced UNIX users: experience. And they aren't going to get any if we hide all the neat stuff under some pretty pictures. Okay, so now you know that I personally don't want a graphical install. You want to know what I want instead? Okay, I'll tell you: I recently contributed some fixes that make swapgeneric.c work again. One of the things this does is allow you to choose what you want to mount as your root device, if you boot with the -a flag. (You need 'options GENERIC' and 'config kernel swap generic' for this to work. Check it out: it's cool.) This sort of brings us back to the days of the kernel-copy floppy, but not really. You don't actually need to copy the kernel from the boot disk onto the hard disk: you can just have it mount the hard disk and a kernel will be installed when the bindist is unpacked. This buys you a couple of things: - If you take the kernel off the existing boot floppy, you gain a bunch of extra room. (I always thought that doing away with the kernel-copy floppy was a bad idea). Ideally this extra space should be used for: o Splitting up the gigantic/do-everything/mega-huge install program into a couple of smaller pieces so that people with only 4 megs of RAM don't go insane. o Expanding/improving the existing install scripts so that they provide some new functionality and sanity checking. Make that a *lot* of sanity checking. o Possibly adding some extra utilities to make the scripts less arcane and more reliable. o Adding a *SHELL* for cryin' out loud! - The kernel could be moved to a seperate boot disk (making the existing boot disk a 'root' disk instead). You could use this boot disk to mount either the install floppy or a hard disk, or possibly a CD-ROM drive, without having to copy the kernel anywhere. This improves upon the functionality that the boot blocks provide: it's not perfect, but technically it could allow you to do strange things like mount non-SCSI CD-ROMs as root filesystems. You could then give the user the option of either mounting his CD-ROM, which could have a much nicer and more expansive install package on it, or mounting a second floppy (yes, you can take the boot floppy out and put in another one) which would have an *EQUALLY FUNCTIONAL* but possibly more conservative install package on it. - Installing the kernel would be done in the process of unpacking the bindist instead of copying it from the floppy. This means that the kernel on the boot floppy and the kernel finally installed on the user's hard disk need not be the same. The install kernel could be specially configured, if needed. - This boot disk can be used, in cases of dire emergency, to recover a system with a damaged/improperly compiled kernel image. Maybe you could make the boot disk into that fixit floppy that everyone's been asking for? That said, the picture I have in my head of the ideal install consists of the following elements: - A boot disk with nothing but the kernel and the boot blocks on it. (Or, at most, a shell and some utilities so that it can be used as a fixit floppy.) - A root disk that's basically similar to the boot disk we have now, only more bulletproof, less memory-hungry, better debugged and *FULLY TESTED*. (I don't care if this delays the 2.1 release: I'd rather we didn't imitate Sun and wait until 2.4 before we get it right. :) - Any number of cpio-floppies containing an equally bulletproofed and less memory-hungry second stage install package with numerous user- configureable options and more sanity checks than humans should be allowed to have. Note that I do not consider it bad form to increase the number of required install floppies: 3 or 4 would not be unreasonable. - The ability to use any CD-ROM drive that FreeBSD supports as a root disk instead of the floppy. This is a nice perk for people who can take advantage of it. (Be mindful of the fact that people who use this install method won't have any VM available, since you can't swap/page to a CD.) - The ability to do an install from a dumb terminal on a machine with no graphics hardware at all. You can do this with SunOS 4.1.x; why not let people do it with FreeBSD? - Slightly improved network configuration section. This is really a matter of completeness: if someone has several network interfaces, he/she should be allowed to configure them all from the install. - Copious documentation!! This brings me to my final point: documentation is far more valuable than graphical 'idiot-proofing.' Micro$oft assumes that users knows nothing, and they program their user interfaces accordingly. We should not do that. Rather than throwing our hands up in the face of dumb users and handholding them, we should instead try our best to turn them into something other than dumb users. To be blunt, UNIX is not for dumb users. That said, there should be ample documentation available for dumb users to educate themselves. There should be an install document that outlines the steps needed to install the software, explains briefly but completely (within context, of course) some of the concepts involved, and refers the reader to other more detailed documents for extra information. Be warned: the first person who says 'HTML' will be shot. Oh wait: I think somebody already said it. Make that the second person. There's a chicken-and-the-egg problem at work here: the user can't read an HTML document unless he/she gets an HTML reader installed, but they probably won't be able to get an HTML reader installed until they read the HTML document. Furthermore, there are a great many people (myself included) who feel *much* more comfortable with paper documentation. There are only a few kinds of formats I find acceptable for installation tutorials: - PostScript (which can usually be printed out easily and can include pictures and diagrams) - Plain ASCII text (for people who don't have PostScript printers or who wouldn't know what to do if they did have them) - Any source format that can ultimately be used to generate PostScript (for power users who can deal with oscenities like TeX) The installation tutorial should quickly explain: what FreeBSD is; why it is not the same as DOS and/or Windows (and why that's a good thing); what's involved in installing it (memory/disk space requirements, supported hardware, time required, disk partitioning techniques, etc...); and all the possible different installation methods. It should provide references to useful UNIX usage and administration books or documents, a truly useful troubleshooting guide (largely for helping people dig themselves out of disk partitioning problems), possibly a few pictures, and, most importantly, an index. This is not a simple 'README' file. This is a tutorial. It won't be easy to write, but many people will love you for it. All this talk of implementing another 'framework' is silly. The existing 'framework' is just fine: it just needs to be fixed up and debugged a little. Copying OS/half Warp isn't the answer either: IBM shipped OS/half with that Internet-access package to draw attention away from the fact OS/half itself sucks so badly. FreeBSD has the potential to be a high quality, professional OS that can more than stand on its own merits, without the need for glitz and hype. But for that to happen, people need to concentrate more on programming and less on marketing. Don't blow the budget on advertising before the product is ready to ship, okay? Well, I think I've gotten myself in enough trouble for one day. You can all quit cowering in the corner and uncover your ears: I'll shut up now. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul System Manager wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu Center for Telecommunications Research (212) 854-6020 Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 13:23:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA28075 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 13:23:36 -0800 Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (root@zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28069 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 13:23:30 -0800 Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA07813 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:23:16 +0100 From: Olof Johansson Received: (offe@localhost) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA29089 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:23:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199501072123.WAA29089@urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se> Subject: The WD7000 driver... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 22:23:14 +0100 (MET) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1185 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I've got the WD7000 driver to work. I haven't got scatter/gather to work on my controller (it may not support it...), so I haven't got any chance to test it. The current version doesn't support s/g. What I do instead is allocate a (physically contiguous) buffer in the driver, which the driver use for all DMA. This will give some performance reduction, but it's the only way I know to get it to work on my controller. I've tested the driver on my 2.0R system, it works with my Tandberg TDC3640. I've also made some testing with a QUANTUM P105SS. The source, with my config file, is uploaded at the incoming directory of ftp.cdrom.com. -Olof -------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------------ Olof Johansson | Address: | Phone: +46-10-695-8364 -------------------+ VPL 914 Johansson +------------------------------------ offe@ludd.luth.se | 2 komp, 3 plut | Who is General Failure, and why d92-ojn@sm.luth.se | Box 9106 | is he reading my disk? offe@sdf.luth.se | 961 19 Boden / SWEDEN | (MSDOS - just say NO!) -------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 14:23:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA29116 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:23:14 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA29109; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:23:10 -0800 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05723 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 23:21:00 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA26321 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:06:03 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA00185; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:46:05 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199501071846.TAA00185@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Desperately Seeking Doc hackers! To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:46:05 +1596657 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, antwerp@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501060952.BAA10713@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 6, 95 01:52:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 824 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's time to start the FreeBSD Documentation Project - it's long overdue! Hear, hear > We need people to: > number of people! The Linux Doc Project has generated an amazingly large > amount of very good documentation, and we've basically done squat. Shame > on us! That is definitely one of the MAIN selling points of Linux over FreeBSD. > Thoughts? > > Jordan OK, I'm volunteering for it. I don't have direct Internet connectivity, so things like proofreading stuff etc is more in line with my abilities Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 14:23:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA29123 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:23:20 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA29117 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:23:17 -0800 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05741 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 23:21:15 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA26331 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:06:14 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA00564; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:38:23 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199501071038.LAA00564@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI support for multiple LUNs? To: terry@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu (Terry Lee) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:38:23 +1596657 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501061838.AA16999@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu> from "Terry Lee" at Jan 6, 95 12:38:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 764 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > for multiple LUNs. But why is vendor info probe disabled for SCSI0 (which > the MD21 is) devices? Is this specified in the SCSI specs.? I enabled > the vendor info probe, and the MD21 was probed correctly. So, can vendor info > probe be safely enabled for SCSI0 (thus all SCSI) devices? Thanks. > > Terry Lee > terry@uivlsi.csl.uiuc.edu I had the same with SCSI0 Micropolis disks. They probed ok once I removed the no-probe code for SCSI0. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 14:46:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA29442 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:46:46 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA29435 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:46:39 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA22016; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 09:40:45 +1100 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 09:40:45 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501072240.JAA22016@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hsu@smile.clinet.fi Subject: Re: Porting cyclades driver; sigh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >NetBSD has got ttymalloc & ttyfree; added into tty.[ch]. Don't know if >they are correct but hope so. FreeBSD doesn't need ttymalloc or ttyfree because clists are self-initialzing (after they are bzeroed) and explicityly freed. >i386/conf.c is is pretty different; implemented the necessary fancy macros >NetBSD has for exploding cdevsw entries and declarations. Leave rest to >someone else; this should be merged. Drivers should initialize the entries for themself so that conf.c doesn't have to know about 10001 interface functions. This will be easier when we have devfs. Now, conf.c has to know at least enough about all drivers to allocate fixed major numbers and enough table space for them. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 14:56:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA29589 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:56:55 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA29583 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:56:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA29376; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 14:56:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Tinguely cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 09:29:07 CST." <199501071529.AA16555@plains.NoDak.edu> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 14:56:41 -0800 Message-ID: <29375.789519401@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > We can implement good documentation, even some good tools, but there will > be a need for human help. I know there are a lot of iron in the fire, > and a lot of thinking about the future, and we need to think of human > specialize (the dreaded financial compensated) support. You are right, and may rest assured that we are right now taking steps to handle _that_ side of the equation. We also need to work on the basic system, however, so that the cost of `human support' does not become too onerous! :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 15:01:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA29680 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:01:09 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA29674 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:01:08 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29434; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:00:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SNAP on freebsd.cdrom.com (empty?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 18:14:54 +0100." <199501071714.SAA11274@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 15:00:55 -0800 Message-ID: <29433.789519655@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I wanted to download a binary snapshot of current but find > the repository on freebsd empty. I got tired of folks running into the problem of the missing srcdist and deleted it. The floppies also had a problem with in-place installations (e.g. NFS, DOS HD or CD) which confused a lot of people (the "bininst" problem). These problems are now fixed, and I'd prefer to just roll another snapshot! I'm currently waiting for David's go-ahead. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 15:13:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA29882 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:13:30 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA29876 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:13:29 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29509; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:12:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter Dufault cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Commit testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 12:26:07 EST." <199501071726.MAA08014@hda.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 15:12:59 -0800 Message-ID: <29508.789520379@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How do committers test things? I want to commit changes to > sys/scsi/* and sys/i386/isa/aha1542.c. (the diffs, if you want to > see them, are on freefall in pub:incoming/sutar7.gz) How do you > handle the time between when you've thoroughly tested something > and you then check it into -current? By hoping and watching commit > logs? Mostly we just bring them onto our own systems, watch them for awhile, then if nothing too horrible happens, we commit into the master tree. Nothing more complex than that, I'm afraid.. > And does anyone review changes before they are commited, and > what is that process? Some developers, like David and John, review eachothers work but this is just a private arrangement. You are, of course, always encouraged to make similar arrangements! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 15:20:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA00277 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:20:38 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA00270 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:20:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29547; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:20:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Porting cyclades driver; sigh In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 20:44:24 +0200." <199501071844.UAA06214@smile.clinet.fi> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 15:20:06 -0800 Message-ID: <29546.789520806@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > NetBSD has got ttymalloc & ttyfree; added into tty.[ch]. Don't know if > they are correct but hope so. I think someone here wanted to add this, but it was also supposed to be very simple! > i386/conf.c is is pretty different; implemented the necessary fancy macros > NetBSD has for exploding cdevsw entries and declarations. Leave rest to > someone else; this should be merged. I think we're actually hoping that cdevsw will go AWAY! The fancy macros are a nice stop-gap measure, but what we really need is a devfs that renders bdevsw and cdevsw entirely obsolete, and this is being worked on now. This is probably why nobody has bothered to bring the fancy macros in. > Can't you guys settle at least for the driver interfaces, if not bicycles? > :-/ It's sad, but we actually need to start talking more, first! :-) > I wouldn't mind someone shipping me a major number for cy driver, just in > case I happen to get it working before I get pissed off and install > linux... Ah, don't do that! :-) Your major number is 48. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 15:21:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA00301 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:21:17 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA00295; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:21:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29562; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:20:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: freebsd-questions@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Uh In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 20:52:01 +0200." <199501071852.UAA06224@smile.clinet.fi> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 15:20:59 -0800 Message-ID: <29561.789520859@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > # Note that, unlike most similar systems, the FreeBSD SCSI system > # does not wire a particular device unit number to any specific > # SCSI bus unit number. Rather, unit numbers are assigned in the > # order that the devices are found on the SCSI bus. (This means that > # if you remove a disk drive, you may have to rewrite your /etc/fstab > # file.) It is expected that this will change for FreeBSD 2.1. For 2.1, yes, this needs to die. Shall we begin the arguments again NOW, and save time later? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 15:30:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA00473 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:30:38 -0800 Received: from duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu [18.43.0.236]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA00467 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 15:30:37 -0800 Received: (from mycroft@localhost) by duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA08092; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:30:26 -0500 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:30:26 -0500 From: "Charles M. Hannum" Message-Id: <199501072330.SAA08092@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: hsu@cs.hut.fi, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <29546.789520806@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Porting cyclades driver; sigh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > i386/conf.c is is pretty different; implemented the necessary fancy macros > NetBSD has for exploding cdevsw entries and declarations. Leave rest to > someone else; this should be merged. I think we're actually hoping that cdevsw will go AWAY! The fancy macros are a nice stop-gap measure, [...] No, they're not nice, and no, they're not `stop-gap' measure at all. Those changes were done solely to prevent USL having any claim over that file. > Can't you guys settle at least for the driver interfaces, if not bicycles? > :-/ It's sad, but we actually need to start talking more, first! :-) I think you just proved that. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 16:15:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA00988 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:15:02 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA00981 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:15:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA29797; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:14:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Wankle Rotary Engine cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 15:49:33 EST." <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 16:14:31 -0800 Message-ID: <29796.789524071@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Well I think this is the wrong thing to do. It sounds almost like people > want to turn FreeBSD into Windoze. Well forget it: that's a horrible idea. > FreeBSD (and UNIX in general) is *NOT* Windoze, pure and simple. Don't I'm sorry if you got the impression that this was what I had in mind. > I don't think a graphical install should be an option at all. (Sorry > Jordan: I know the thought of a pretty Tcl/Tk installation script makes > you all warm and squishy inside, but you can't paint with broad stokes > when all you have are small brushes.) You need to take into account the > lowest common denominator, and right now that's a text display. Supposing About the last bit, you're right. You can't really hope to do a UN*X-on-PC product like this _without_ such a ``submarine mode'' installation available for those who want or need to deal with the machine on a more crude level. Just think of a router, or an NFS server, or an NIS box - all possibly administered with little better than serial terminals (how well does Joerg's serial boot code work, anyway? :-). Sure, I understand the need for *alternatives*. But I disagree to my last breath that they consitiute any kind of majority! While I value Mr Paul's contributions enormously, I would have to be frank in pointing out to him that his situation is NOT the majority situation for most users. A VERY LARGE majority of the FreeBSD boxes out there have VGA (640x480) capable displays and cards at the minimum, and it would be *criminal* not to have a plan for perhaps eventually putting that to good use! This is the age old UNIX-diehard argument all over again! "A pretty face means nothing!" they used to say on the hill. Or they hid behind a mantra of "mechanism, not policy!" However, having the benefit of hindsight now, we can also faithfully conclude that this intransience on the UNIX-diehards' part was *stupid*! They just plain didn't understand (or want to understand) *presentation*; something which we have now come to understand is at least TWICE as important as actual content! "Gross!" you say? Don't believe me? Go talk to Microsoft. Talk to Lotus. Talk to just about ANYONE in the valley! If you want your baby to SURVIVE in today's software market, you MUST pay some attention to BOTH aspects of your software's development: Content and Presentation! I'm not suggesting that we put twice the effort of development into presentation, mind you, but we need to think seriously about it and spend *some* time on it. And we WILL, ok? :-) > Sure, you could come up with both a graphical and non-graphical install > to make everybody happy, but there's still the matter of cramming the > extra software onto the install floppies. Everybody, whether they want > a greaphical install or not, will have to carry a bunch of excess bagage > around. And don't hand me that line about installing from the CD-ROM: Oh give me a break! Haven't you ever heard of *separate installations*? Our experience with the 3-to-2 cram clearly showed us that we couldn't have one floppy set that did everything we wanted, so we've already branched out into the idea of creating *multiple* installation floppy releases. One set will probably be pretty beefy, with lots of happy options for people who are a little slow to start [but often become pretty sharp - don't %$^&*(#@! underestimate people so much!]. One set will be a reactor repair kit style install - all function and you gotta know how to drive it or you'll hurt yourself. This one will make people like you very happy and may even cause one or two pairs of underwear to be changed. Another set is a general repair kit, and maybe one set is an *upgrade* set. You getting the picture? We need to cater to a LOT of needs, not just yours and not just the fancy graphics people! What the hell do you think the Linux people have been doing all this time?? Why do you think it has such a BROAD user base? > (Also, you'd be surprised at the stupid things people will do when they > have 600 Mbytes of space to play with: Sun's Solaris 2.3 install goes > through all the trouble of loading OpenWindows 3.3 off the installation > CD just so it can run a text-based installation program inside a > shelltool window. I'm not making this up.) So, that's certainly not something we need to emulate! :) > Look: the X server alone is big. The X libraries are big. Statically > linked X binaries are very big. Tck/Tk is big. Just how were you planning > on fitting those big things onto the boot disk, hmmm? Sure, if you mount EASY. I only use 2GB disks as my boot disks. You're thinking in the past here, Mr Rotary Engine (god, I should have guessed! It's obvious now! :-). You're looking at this sea of aging PC equipment around you and you're projecting it as a much larger problem than it actually is. Sure, we have to support the old stuff, and there will be some minimal "FreeBSD lite" installation that *specifically targets* these aging old-before-their-time 386 relics and brings them up to an acceptable level of functionality. You want to convert one into a workstation? You lose! That's a stupid thing to do anyway. The shiny-new-486 crowd (of which there are an OVERWHELMINGLY large number!) has their own happy release which supports their CDs, and everything. No problem! Each gets their own custom-tailored solution. Jesus, have you looked outside lately? The prices are *falling*! I can get 2GB drives now for what I could buy 1GB drives just 8 months ago and there's no immediate end in sight. Stop thinking so SMALL for chrissake! Consider the market 6 months to a year ahead, instead. Some amount of "growing together" should be planned for in advance. > That's what this boils down to, folks: burying a couple of otherwise > simple operations under tons and tons of graphical manure, just to make > some simpletons happy. It's been established that UNIX, in general, Mr Paul, I love ya, but you're an elitist reverse-snob boob! :-) For the last time, those that want a graphical install will get one. I will personally see to it, if no one else does. Those who do NOT get a graphical install ALSO will not get one. They simply will not be encouraged to run it! They will be encouraged to run a *different* install. See how simple that works? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 16:23:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA01209 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:23:00 -0800 Received: from neon.gbdata.com (Phoenix-GW.GBData.COM [199.3.234.240]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01203 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:22:47 -0800 Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by neon.gbdata.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA14012 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:50:31 -0600 From: FreeBSD Mailing lists Message-Id: <199501080050.SAA14012@neon.gbdata.com> Subject: Timeline of FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:50:30 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1380 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Here is my revised timeline to date. Again, if anyone has any suggestions or corrections please relay them to me. Note: Any where you see a ``?'', this some place I'm not sure of the date. Also, if you see a history point that is wrong or missing, please let me know. I would have no excuse for having wrong information.:) Gary Clark II From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 16:24:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA01231 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:24:56 -0800 Received: from anvil.appsmiths.com (appsmiths.sccsi.com [198.65.134.98]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01225 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:24:48 -0800 Received: (from hoppy@localhost) by anvil.appsmiths.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA01186 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:18:36 -0600 From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Message-Id: <199501080018.SAA01186@anvil.appsmiths.com> Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:18:35 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Wankle Rotary Engine" at Jan 7, 95 03:49:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4206 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk :: :: I know that what I'm about to say probably won't be well received, but :: this is how I really feel, so I have to say say it: [ . . .] Man. Actually there are some good points here, and I'll chime in a couple more. o I tend to think that the notion of a bloated but friendly (barney?) installation would probably miss the mark. The installer runs it once -- it really doesn't matter how it looks, only how it works. Who are you gonna dazzle? There have got to be some better places to invest mantime than on UI for the installation. If you wanna build UI code, then build File-Manager for X. You would be helping more untrained souls with that by far. o An installer that works first-time every time should be the goal, long before building a UI for it. A wrecked cadillac is useless. Just having a nifty interface affects nothing in the problem domain, which is getting a rock-solid installation procedure. o Who is the audience if the best you can offer at the end of the installation is a shell prompt? Clearly the installer cannot be completely naive, or it won't make a hoot anyway. Keep in mind what they have to be or know to use the thing once installed. o Installations like those found under Windoze are a nightmare and a failure. I've been through so many of these cockeyed instatalltions that I now keep my autoexec.bat, config.sys, and c:/windows/*.ini files in RCS. It gets very sad if you let these friendly little installers run wild (ho, ho, ho, I'll just eat 1/2 of your 340MB disk for windozs swap). This is not a sentient goal. o One thing that *nix installers are no good at is layering. When I installed 2.0, The silly GENERICA kernel found an adaptec 1510 and decided it was a 1542 (no, that wont work), and saw my 3c509 and made it mitsumi CD-ROM (no that really won't work). This would have cratered a novice immediatly. Thank goodnes for -c (which, BTW, I only knew about by being tuned into this channel) or I would have had to yank boards. What the heck is this thing gonna look like when there are >500 devices supported? If it helps, my early attempts with Linux ate up 2 weeks before I snapped the damn thing over my knee. I think I would rather install a small, operable staging system (with only display, keyboard, floppies, Hdisk support) from floppy, and let me configure and build the kernel I want to end up with and then do the big load from CD after I get it put together. If you want to help a novice, help him with the configure step. This type of approach would also help the "stonewalling" which I saw going on in this group about how to tickle one device to see if its there without pissing off another one. It just gets harder and harder as more devices come into existance. Things are much easier if the consumer gives you some clues about what's in his box, so let 'em. o Last, but not least, try the installation by fire and sit back and learn some things. Find an old PC, zap the disk, and have the secretary or a cousin or something try the installation, and just sit back and watch. The stuff that hangs people up sometimes is amazing -- certainly to the people who are reading this group anyway. The install is gonna be harder than installing Excel. It just is. Most first-timers are gonna have to repartition their hard disks to install FreeBSD. What kind of people are going to get a new operating system off the internet, or buy a CD-rom, and try to install it themselves? It aint for the faint of heart. (You have to be at least *this* tall to ride the FreeBSD ride). The people who get this far are not going to shudder at having to do a command-line install, especially if there is enough documentation around to make them comfortable that they know what they are getting into. =============================================================================== Clay D. Hopperdietzel hoppy@appsmiths.com AppSmiths, Inc. (713) 578-0154 Houston, Texas USA Happiness is OG > 1.0500 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 16:27:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA01258 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:27:00 -0800 Received: from bsd.coe.montana.edu (bsd.coe.montana.edu [153.90.192.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01252 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:26:53 -0800 Received: (nate@localhost) by bsd.coe.montana.edu (8.6.8/8.3) id RAA18083; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:30:46 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:30:46 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199501080030.RAA18083@bsd.coe.montana.edu> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: Graphical installations and such..." (Jan 7, 4:14pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Wankle Rotary Engine Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > EASY. I only use 2GB disks as my boot disks. You're thinking in the > past here, Mr Rotary Engine (god, I should have guessed! It's obvious > now! :-). You're looking at this sea of aging PC equipment around > you and you're projecting it as a much larger problem than it actually > is. Sure, we have to support the old stuff, and there will be some > minimal "FreeBSD lite" installation that *specifically targets* these > aging old-before-their-time 386 relics and brings them up to an > acceptable level of functionality. You want to convert one into a > workstation? You lose! Not to be too obnoxious, but I would venture to guess that the *majority* of the users of Linux have 8MB machines with less than 200MB of disk. And, a greater number of folks have 4MB in comparison to those with 16MB of memory. Just because YOU have lots of $$ to throw at 2GB drives as *boot* disks doesn't mean the average user does. > > That's what this boils down to, folks: burying a couple of otherwise > > simple operations under tons and tons of graphical manure, just to make > > some simpletons happy. It's been established that UNIX, in general, > > Mr Paul, I love ya, but you're an elitist reverse-snob boob! :-) IMHO, assuming that the average user will have the ability to run our WYSIWYG install utility is a quite a bit elitist. Having just been in the University environment, most of the folks were turned off originally by FreeBSD's hardware requirements. That changed with shlibs in 1.1, but as of late I see a *BIG* trend toward that area. Yes, we are picking up alot more 'experienced' hackers, but in my experience we are also turning away a number of folks who are overwhelmed by the magnitude of BSD. When I see a install that works on the majority of machines I see I'll believe it. This is not meant to discourage anyone from developing a nice GUI front-end based on X, but to raise the question 'Is it worth spending alot of time on something which IMO the *minority* of the folks will find helpful?' Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 16:32:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA01314 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:32:21 -0800 Received: from bsd.coe.montana.edu (bsd.coe.montana.edu [153.90.192.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01307 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:32:20 -0800 Received: (nate@localhost) by bsd.coe.montana.edu (8.6.8/8.3) id RAA18110; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:35:11 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:35:11 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199501080035.RAA18110@bsd.coe.montana.edu> In-Reply-To: FreeBSD Mailing lists "Timeline of FreeBSD" (Jan 7, 6:50pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: FreeBSD Mailing lists , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Timeline of FreeBSD Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > Here is my revised timeline to date. Again, if anyone has any suggestions > or corrections please relay them to me. > > > appear in ``Dr. Dobbs'' magazine > ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:55:10 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA18118; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:54:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.9/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA00642; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:54:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199501080054.QAA00642@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: FreeBSD Mailing lists cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Timeline of FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 18:50:30 CST." <199501080050.SAA14012@neon.gbdata.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 16:54:39 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >the beginning of FreeBSD 2.0 This isn't correct; The FreeBSD 1.x work continued until the 1.1.5 release (we negotiated being allowed to do 1.1.5 with USL). After the initial port was checked into CVS, work on 2.0 was concurrent with work on 1.1.5 for several months...we had two seperate CVS trees during this time. Somebody else might remember the exact date of the 1.1.5 release. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 16:59:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA01904 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:59:17 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01884 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:59:13 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA15350; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:58:29 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199501080058.QAA15350@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Wankle Rotary Engine) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:58:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Wankle Rotary Engine" at Jan 7, 95 03:49:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 563 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I know that what I'm about to say probably won't be well received, but > this is how I really feel, so I have to say say it: > > All this talk of trying to come up with an X/Tcl/Tk/whatever-based > installation system touches a raw nerve in me. I happen to feel that > this is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be avoided. There's ... About all that I can say after reading this is BRAVO!!!! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 17:05:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA02110 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:05:49 -0800 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02104 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:05:45 -0800 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA05523; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:03:31 -0500 From: Wankle Rotary Engine Message-Id: <199501080103.UAA05523@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:03:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <29796.789524071@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 7, 95 04:14:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2037 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk They say this Jordan K. Hubbard person was kidding when he wrote: > > > Well I think this is the wrong thing to do. It sounds almost like people > > want to turn FreeBSD into Windoze. Well forget it: that's a horrible idea. > > FreeBSD (and UNIX in general) is *NOT* Windoze, pure and simple. Don't > > I'm sorry if you got the impression that this was what I had in mind. No no, I never imagined that at all. :) I have only one point that I want to clear up: > > > Look: the X server alone is big. The X libraries are big. Statically > > linked X binaries are very big. Tck/Tk is big. Just how were you planning > > on fitting those big things onto the boot disk, hmmm? Sure, if you mount > > EASY. I only use 2GB disks as my boot disks. Er, no no no. I'm sorry: I should have been clearer. By boot disk, I meant boot _floppy_. In order to provide a complete graphical install, you have to start up X right away, but I can't see how to do that with only a floppy install. I can only see two options: 1) Have a text install that partitions the disk and loads the second stage install, which can include the X server and whatnot, then start the graphical install only after the user boots from the hard disk for the first time. 2) Use the boot floppy to mount the CD-ROM as the rootfs, which will give you as much space as you need. (But no virtual memory.) I thought the idea was to dump the user into a graphical install at step one. I'm just wondering how you plan to do this. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul System Manager wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu Center for Telecommunications Research (212) 854-6020 Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 17:13:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA02156 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:13:47 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02150 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:13:45 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.8/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id CAA14250 for ; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 02:14:25 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27375; Sun, 8 Jan 95 02:14:34 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.frmug.fr.net (8.6.9/keltia-uucp-1.21) id CAA11102 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 02:09:21 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199501080109.CAA11102@keltia.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Perl setuid scripts don't work (same reason as in 1.1.5.1) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers' list) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 02:09:19 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development X-Ctm-Level: 261 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1630 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I think someone has already talk about it but I just got bitten again : perl setuid scripts don't work in 2.1-current for the same reason they were not working in 1.1.5.1. Perl 5 has the same "problem" of course. We have almost POSIX saved uids but we must undefine the following symbols in order to get setuid perl scripts : Someone _please_ commit this. Index: config.h =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl/config.h,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 config.h --- 1.5 1994/11/03 23:50:43 +++ config.h 1995/01/07 22:23:56 @@ -386,7 +386,7 @@ * available to change the real, effective and saved gid of the current * program. */ -#define HAS_SETREGID /**/ +#undef HAS_SETREGID /**/ /* HAS_SETREUID * This symbol, if defined, indicates that the setreuid routine is @@ -397,19 +397,19 @@ * available to change the real, effective and saved uid of the current * program. */ -#define HAS_SETREUID /**/ +#undef HAS_SETREUID /**/ /* HAS_SETRGID * This symbol, if defined, indicates that the setrgid routine is available * to change the real gid of the current program. */ -#define HAS_SETRGID /**/ +#undef HAS_SETRGID /**/ /* HAS_SETRUID * This symbol, if defined, indicates that the setruid routine is available * to change the real uid of the current program. */ -#define HAS_SETRUID /**/ +#undef HAS_SETRUID /**/ /* HAS_SOCKET -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #2: Sat Jan 7 00:55:25 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 17:25:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA02337 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:25:45 -0800 Received: from andrew.cmu.edu (ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.101]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02330 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:25:43 -0800 Received: (from postman@localhost) by andrew.cmu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA05139 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:25:34 -0500 Received: via switchmail; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:25:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcs16.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:23:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcs16.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:23:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mms.4.60.Nov..4.1993.10.47.44.sun4c.411.EzMail.Phred.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs16.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.pcs16.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:23:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:23:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-Reply-To: <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 7-Jan-95 Graphical installations and.. by Wankle Rotary Engine@sky > All this talk of trying to come up with an X/Tcl/Tk/whatever-based > installation system touches a raw nerve in me. I just want to say that I agree with pretty much everything that was said in this long message. I really think that the old netbsd/freebsd install script (the one from freebsd 1.1.5.1 and netbsd 1.0) work just fine. An added bonus is that between the boot and root disks there were enough utils to fix a trashed machine. One thing that has always bugged me about the FreeBSD install too is that it never supports doing upgrades (except maybe the 1.1 to 1.1.5.1 upgrade if there was one, which I really don't remember). Usually its just a matter of mounting the floppies and getting it to never newfs any partitions or re-disklabel my disk, but why aren't upgrade disks (like the upgr-1.0 disks from NetBSD) ever made. I really think this is a lot more important then a color graphical install. I'm sorry, but I really don't want to see the BSD camps pick up the millions of Linux users out there who don't really want to learn unix and just want to run the latest cool warez on their systems. I think its really nice that there is a community of Unix users out there who are interested in making a robust, mature, and stable system, and I really think that is what both of the BSD groups have been doing. alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 17:42:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA02558 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:42:39 -0800 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA02552 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:42:38 -0800 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA09324; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:42:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:42:14 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9501080142.AA09324@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Wankle Rotary Engine Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Graphical installations and such... In-Reply-To: <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> References: <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: > I know that what I'm about to say probably won't be well received, but > this is how I really feel, so I have to say say it: [rant deleted.] Well said, Bill! -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 17:57:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA02915 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:57:28 -0800 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA02909 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:57:27 -0800 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA09339; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:57:17 -0500 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:57:17 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9501080157.AA09339@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Wankle Rotary Engine , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-Reply-To: <29796.789524071@time.cdrom.com> References: <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> <29796.789524071@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: > EASY. I only use 2GB disks as my boot disks. Um, Jordan, even at MIT people consider this to be an unconscionable waste of disk space. The day FreeBSD becomes as piggish as OSF/1 in the default preparation is the day I find an operating system where people aren't as profligate in their desire to waste my resources. Don't expect me to show any interest in testing the all-singing, all-dancing installation system, either. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 18:03:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA03047 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:03:30 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03041 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:03:29 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00242; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:02:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Wankle Rotary Engine), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 16:58:29 PST." <199501080058.QAA15350@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 18:02:53 -0800 Message-ID: <241.789530573@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Why did I just KNOW that Rod was going to agree? :-) In a way, in fact it rather further proves my point! :-) Jordan > > > > I know that what I'm about to say probably won't be well received, but > > this is how I really feel, so I have to say say it: > > > > All this talk of trying to come up with an X/Tcl/Tk/whatever-based > > installation system touches a raw nerve in me. I happen to feel that > > this is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be avoided. There's > ... > > About all that I can say after reading this is BRAVO!!!! > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 18:08:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA03151 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:08:46 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03145 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:08:45 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00271; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:07:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Wankle Rotary Engine cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 20:03:27 EST." <199501080103.UAA05523@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 18:07:57 -0800 Message-ID: <270.789530877@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Er, no no no. I'm sorry: I should have been clearer. By boot disk, I > meant boot _floppy_. In order to provide a complete graphical install, > you have to start up X right away, but I can't see how to do that with > only a floppy install. I can only see two options: > > 1) Have a text install that partitions the disk and loads the second > stage install, which can include the X server and whatnot, then > start the graphical install only after the user boots from the hard > disk for the first time. That was exactly what I had in mind. > 2) Use the boot floppy to mount the CD-ROM as the rootfs, which will > give you as much space as you need. (But no virtual memory.) And that too! :-) > I thought the idea was to dump the user into a graphical install > at step one. I'm just wondering how you plan to do this. No, I'm sorry if I gave that impression as well. My first idea as that we only use X for configuration and package management. You won't initially set up your partitions that way! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 18:14:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA03329 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:14:26 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03323 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:14:23 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA18289; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:14:06 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.9/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA00707; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:14:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199501080214.SAA00707@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Wankle Rotary Engine), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 18:02:53 PST." <241.789530573@time.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 18:14:04 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Why did I just KNOW that Rod was going to agree? :-) > >In a way, in fact it rather further proves my point! :-) >> > this is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be avoided. There's >> ... >> >> About all that I can say after reading this is BRAVO!!!! Ummm, can we all just get a grip on reality for a second? It seems to me that it is exceptionally clear that an X based install isn't ever going to happen. I have to count myself in with the people that don't want it even if 2GB+ disks and 16MB+ memory were the defacto standard minimum - the fact is that it is just too much for such a simple task. Besides, our current color ncurses based install works out *just fine* for what we need to do with it. It needs only minor extensions to do everything we want *and* it looks good. So what's all the hubbub, bub? Sheesh! I shouldn't have put myself back on -hackers; this pointless argument is definately proof of that! -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 18:51:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA04870 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:51:39 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04864 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:51:38 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00356; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:51:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Garrett Wollman cc: Wankle Rotary Engine , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 20:57:17 EST." <9501080157.AA09339@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 18:51:20 -0800 Message-ID: <355.789533480@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Don't expect me to show any interest in testing the all-singing, > all-dancing installation system, either. Garrett, I've *never* expected you to show an interest! You're a computer geek! I *know* your opinion on all of this already! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 18:55:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA05004 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:55:57 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04998 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:55:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00387; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:55:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: davidg@Root.COM cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Wankle Rotary Engine), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 18:14:04 PST." <199501080214.SAA00707@corbin.Root.COM> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 18:55:23 -0800 Message-ID: <386.789533723@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Sheesh! I shouldn't have put myself back on -hackers; this pointless > argument is definately proof of that! I think the basic problem was with bringing it up at all. In the realm of installation procedures, talk is just too cheap, and everybody's an armchair general (or Hitler). I am going to go underground with my work and just beaver away on what I feel to be important, and if people like it, fine! If they don't like it, that's also fine. But I refuse to discuss it any further. This conversation should never have started and is now over. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 19:26:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA06080 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:26:49 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06074 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:26:45 -0800 Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA21255 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:59:20 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199501080359.TAA21255@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:59:20 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1681 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In my opinion, much more important than pushing for a graphical installation program at the moment is the need to increase the chance of the first boot of FreeBSD to work 99.9% of the time and run on 99.9% of the machines out there. What I mean by this is: 1) VM86 Bios mode disk driver as the method of installation, and as a viable alternative for folks waiting for their drive to be supported. Linux has this. 2) Externalizing the probes from all the drivers and doing the probes (like NT, OS/2, and Windows 96^H5) once you've got the machine up and can say to the user "Hey, I'm about to look for the hardware you have installed...if I freeze, this is what you do... you can also bypass the probe and tell me what you have". 3) Take the probe information and configure a kernel appropriately. 4) Ask about the type of ethernet device people have (link2 saga). 5) Have a shell availible!!! Seriously, the text based install tools are not sufficienly polished to warant a graphical install at this time. 2.0 was by far the hardest release of FreeBSD for me to install because I wanted a shell, and whenever NCFTP froze, you had no choice but to reboot! Having ^C and ^Z reboot the machine was a nice touch too (seeing as anyone who has ANY Unix experience will try this if something goes wrong). This is not to bag on the 2.0 install tools. I think they are a great start, but they do alienate the seasoned hacker and do not provide enough flexibility yet. -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 19:59:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA06634 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:59:55 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA06628 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:59:53 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06857 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 7 Jan 1995 21:35:30 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA17243; 7 Jan 95 20:17:35 CST (Sat) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA17239; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 20:17:34 -0600 Message-Id: <199501080217.UAA17239@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 95 18:18:35 CST." <199501080018.SAA01186@anvil.appsmiths.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 20:17:31 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > If you wanna build UI > code, then build File-Manager for X. You would be helping more untrained > souls with that by far. XFM runs quite well on FreeBSD 1.1.5, I don't imagine that it'd have a problem on 2.x. It's athena-widget based, and xmkmf was about all I needed to do to get it up. It performs Program Manager and File Manager duties. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 21:20:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA09967 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 21:20:54 -0800 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA09957 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 21:20:52 -0800 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA25417; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 00:19:12 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199501080519.AAA25417@goof.com> Subject: Re: guest account: Yggdrasil information To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 00:19:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dawes@physics.su.oz.au, cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199501071403.IAA21258@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Jan 7, 95 08:01:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1382 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Peter da Silva wrote: > A really *nifty* solution would be to use WWW forms, since there are already > curses and X based interfaces to them. Authentication and security are likely > to be problems, though. Plus you'd need to be running one of the HTTPDs. Well. There are auth implementations for WWW stuff. I've done a little work with them for submission of events into a calendar. You could use the auth password as the root password once you're up on the network (of course, you'd be talking to yourself on localhost (I hope) and wouldn't have to worry about that password going over the net). Of course, there's the possibility of doing it from remote as well, which could be nice. It wouldn't be hard to get an httpd running on startup for installation configuration, using lynx as the tool to fill out forms, and later netscape, mosaic, chimera, arena, ... (take your pick) could be used to do the form fillout within X. I think this sounds like a great idea. It would provide installation configuration, as well as allow for the development of management utilities that use nothing more than your basic forms-capable web browser. -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -- System/Network Administration, User Support, Software Devel. Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research Work Related: mmead@ctr.vt.edu | All Other: mmead@goof.com WWW: http://www.goof.com:/~mmead From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 21:29:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id VAA10555 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 21:29:45 -0800 Received: from epiwrl.entropic.com (root@epiwrl.entropic.com [192.86.164.14]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA10546 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 21:29:41 -0800 Received: from client.entropic.com (kenh@epiwrl.entropic.com [192.86.164.14]) by epiwrl.entropic.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA28137; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 00:29:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199501080529.AAA28137@epiwrl.entropic.com> X-Notice: The site "wrl.epi.com" is now known as "entropic.com" To: Wankle Rotary Engine cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jan 1995 15:49:33 EST." <199501072049.PAA05164@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 00:29:14 -0500 From: Ken Hornstein Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >(Also, you'd be surprised at the stupid things people will do when they >have 600 Mbytes of space to play with: Sun's Solaris 2.3 install goes >through all the trouble of loading OpenWindows 3.3 off the installation >CD just so it can run a text-based installation program inside a >shelltool window. I'm not making this up.) I agree with everything you say, but I'd just like to make one point about this paragraph. My understanding is that the reason the Solaris 2.3 install runs OW is because the text-mode framebuffers on some sparcs (like the sparc 2 and 1+'s) is damn slow as a result of a hardware bug. Installing SunOS on those machines using suninstall is a real drag. You actually get a performance gain by running OpenWindows in this case. So this isn't a reason to bash Solaris (although there are plenty of others! :-) ). --Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 7 23:56:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id XAA11797 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 23:56:09 -0800 Received: from crab.xinside.com (crab.xinside.com [199.120.247.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11791 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 1995 23:56:02 -0800 Received: (jdc@localhost) by crab.xinside.com (8.6.8/8.6.5) id AAA07382 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 00:51:58 -0700 From: Jeremy Chatfield Message-Id: <199501080751.AAA07382@crab.xinside.com> Subject: Re: Graphical installations and such To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 00:51:57 +0000 (MST) In-Reply-To: <199501080359.TAA21255@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Jan 7, 95 07:59:20 pm Organization: X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Phone: +1(303)470-5302 Reply-To: jdc@crab.xinside.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 9576 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Think of me as a disinterested outsider... And take some notice of my history. The most relevant part of my history for this discussion is that I was development manager (and because of the lack of other people, often the marketing and product manager) for Dell UNIX. It was, in its' day, considered probably the best implementation of UNIX System V Release 4.0 available. Even if you skip the stuff in the middle, you might want to note the last paragraph. XII supports most versions of UNIX on Intel, so I have no particular interest in what you decide to do, other than that X Inside would like to see all UNIX variants develop a larger share of the market and merge some of the execution format types... This advice is offered with the motive of helping you to increase the number of users that you have. That may not be your goal, and I would not presume to tell you that it should be; FreeBSD is under your mutual control, not mine. I hope you make it into what you want! At Dell, we discovered that the rate of customer support calls and product returns was strongly dependant on the installation process. Dell UNIX 1.x was based on ISC's 1.0.6 (a fairly early System V Release 3). Devices were statically configured to specified values before you started the install, or you could forget about completing an installation. Dell UNIX Release 2.x was based on SVR4.0 and used some Dell-created dynamically configuring device drivers for the most common devices that Dell sold. Support call rate dropped by 90% in the first 30 days of customer use. We discovered a side effect. When an installation succeeded first time, that customer was: a) Less likely to think that problems occuring later were caused by the OS and was more likely to assume that they themselves were confused or in error. b) *MUCH* more likely to buy additional copies and to recommend the product to their friends. The development staff, support staff and (intermittent) marketing staff agreed about one thing: installation process accounted for approximately 80% of the customer perception of quality for the first 90 days of product use and was a strong determinant in further sales and positive customer support experience. There are differences between a commercial product and a freely available product. However, if you want FreeBSD to achieve wide spread use, you would do well to look at what commercial organisations do, why they do it, and whether it helped... I do not want to presume to tell you what your goals are, but if you want to get widespread acceptance and endorsement of FreeBSD, and to get "customer" willingness to overlook problems and have them actively help you to fix them, a well designed, slick and reliable installation process is essential and in some ways overcomes weaknesses in range of hardware and applications supported. You should also note that Dell UNIX had an annual advertising budget of $0. This is less than the budget of FreeBSD (implied by Walnut Creek advertising and that Walnut Creek probably have some kind of Press Office that is willing to make Press Releases - Dell PR refused to announce new releases of Dell UNIX on the grounds that no-one was interested in software!). Our annual run rate at the time we were axed, was about 2,000 units/year, sold entirely by word of mouth and in the face of opposition from the Sales force, who would deny that Dell sold UNIX so they get on to taking a call from the next hardware customer... This run rate compares with (at the same date point), approx 120,000 to 150,000 new units of SCO, 50,000 of ISC SVR3, 300 of ISC SVR4 (withdrawn before the SunSoft acquisition) and approx 2,000-3,000 units from each of ICL, MicroPort, Esix and UHC. You don't get to that level of sales with no advertising, without significant product quality goals and something else. We all felt that thet "something else" was our installation process. The flexibility to use install media that we provided, or that was from a backup, to use a wide range of sources from a single bootstrap image, and to have a menu controlled install, or an escape to the shell for the wizardly, catered to all tastes and needs. By the time that Michael remembered that he was running a hardware company, and decided to remove a $1M software budget, we had a design for a boot process like that below and had mostly implemented and shipped it for about a year (the missing component for us was the CD File System and NetWare support, to allow taking the image from a NetWare Server - I don't think you care about that, yet ;-) ). + Floppy boot using BIOS + Kernel loading install tools from a variety of sources + Install tools loaded core OS with basic components, using an initial dialog and no further user intervention. The dialog could be provided by a file to automate installation processes. The install object was explicitly designed to be the same format as a backup image, so that users could rapidly restore full working systems. Backup images were extended to include a complete partition table and file system layout, in case the whole disk had been replaced; it was also possible to over ride the saved values and set new values to permit easy resizing of partitions and file systems; or to defragment heavily fragmented disks :-) + Reboot from hard disk went into a fancy character menu system for selecting optional packages; all dialogue was conducted at this point or could be extracted from a file, so that the remainder of the install could be performed without manual attention. We would have used the X Window System, but stuff like Tk/tcl was not available back then. We estimated that we could adapt an existing USL character menuing system in less time than it would take to start on an equivalent interpreter for an X based language. Mechanically, this process was arranged as: Disk 1: Kernel with autoconfigured device drivers. Disk 2: (optional) File system with install tools. Disk 3: (optional) other network tools. Disk 1 permitted loading the rest of the install tools from: the first archive on a tape NFS mounted resource tftp server CD-ROM Floppy The point of having the install tools on floppy was that they could also be used for system reconstruction and administration. We had very positive response to putting all questions at the front of each of the two steps of the installation process. The first stage of questions was oriented towards physical layout of the disks, as we had what we considered an irreducible minimum set of stuff. The second round of questions, after the hard disk was booted, was oriented towards add-on packages and configuring and tuning the system - finally asking for an image backup so that a reinstall could reach that exact point. Our minimal set of questions for default responses (assumes that network is not selected - then you needed standard network questions). o Select & insert Install Tools Media (floppy, NFS, tftp, CD-ROM, tape) o Keyboard language? o (assume tape, CD-ROM or Floppy is used) Install or Shell for administration? o Default installation? o Date, time & timezone. If using the network, we provided a tool that gave a fill in form. Unlike the tools in Linux and FreeBSD, we put everything on one screen, using curses: Machine name: Domain name: Primary IP Address: Netmask: (inferred from previous, but could over ride) Broadcast Address: (inferred from previous replies) Gateway IP address: Nameserver IP Addresses (1): (2): (3): NFS Server address or name: (could be TFTP target, instead) NFS directory for install image: (could be TFTP target, instead) Time service IP Address: This form was used to supply entries into 24 different files that USL used to store system ID's, IP addresses and so on... It was widely used by organisations that installed multiple systems, so that they could quickly set up installation sets of addresses and then change to the real target when installation was complete.. I hope that this helps you to move forward in your design process for the installation mechanism, and that Dell UNIX still, perhaps, sets a standard for attention to detail and customer usage :-) I only wish we'd had the equivalent of the '-c' boot option - it makes my life vastly easier, working on the range of hardware that we have! As a final sweetener, X Inside Inc is willing to offer our X Server, binary executable, in 640x480x4bpp VGA mode only, for free, if you choose an X based package installation process. We maintain the VGA code anyway, it runs on everything we know about, including the silly Weitek VGA chips, nobody buys our Server for 640x480x4bpp usage so it doesn't damage our sales and justifies the development and testing work on that mose, and our configuration process is something that I think is almost right :-) We'll even offer to field support calls for configuring the X Server in the install process. Knowing that this may be of interest to other OS vendors, we're already in process of making the hacks to support this limited functionality. We could probably have something ready early this week, if you want to take a look at it. Cheers, JeremyC. -- Jeremy Chatfield, +1(303)470-5302, FAX:+1(303)470-5513, email:jdc@xinside.com X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Commercial X Server - for more information please try these services http://www.xinside.com info@xinside.com ftp.xinside.com