From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 01:41:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA26501 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 01:41:08 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA26487 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 01:41:02 -0700 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA22282 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:39:24 +0100 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:39:24 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199510010839.JAA22282@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: outside 'des'-directory Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As a mirror site maintainer I would like to put up a des directory equivalent to the ftp.freebsd.org site for the latest SNAP and coming RELEASES. At the moment I fetched the code from internat.freebsd.org and put it with a README into the des directory, saying that one had to rebuilt from source to get equivalent DES crypt libraries and such. Is this the correct way? Would it bee too much effort for the za-site to produce ready made tar-balls from the sources? Suggestions? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 02:05:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA28920 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 02:05:15 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA28912 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 02:05:03 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA00907 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 11:04:54 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00617 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 11:04:53 +0200 Message-Id: <199510010904.LAA00617@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How to get to the hardware? Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 11:04:53 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Kernel Boffin! This is my first foray into the High Temple of Kernel Hacking (tm), and I am desparately in deed of some guidance, please. I am working on a device (/dev/random) to give truly nasty random numbers for crypto/security use, and it is mostly going OK. I have some code written by Theodore Ts'o, and it is good stuff, but it is for the Linux kernel. Could someone please suggest to me the best way of doing the following in the FreeBSD kernel: (I am not sure I like the concept of just messing with the timer directly, and yes, I have had a look at microtime.s) The bits I do not line are the outb_p() and inb_p(). There _has_ to be a better way... #if defined (__i386__) && 0 /* * On a 386, read the high resolution timer. We assume that * this gives us 2 bits of randomness. XXX This needs * investigation. */ outb_p(0x00, 0x43); /* latch the count ASAP */ add_entropy_byte(r, inb_p(0x40), 1); add_entropy_byte(r, inb(0x40), 1); r->entropy_count += 2; if (r->entropy_count > r->bit_length) r->entropy_count = r->bit_length; #endif Thanks! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 04:05:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA03973 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 04:05:54 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA03951 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 04:05:47 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA20960 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 12:05:30 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA25823 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 12:05:29 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA20358 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:29:42 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510010829.JAA20358@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: -stable: tuucp1061: tproto, so fast ! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:29:42 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199509301226.NAA10088@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Sep 30, 95 01:26:44 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1065 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > > > Watch out, i've experienced SIGFPE's when transfering large files > > simultaneously in both directions. I've reported it to the Taylor > > UUCP list, so i thinks it's on the way to be fixed. > > Did you get them only when using TCP or is it a general "behaviour" of > the "i" protocol ? What are "large" files in your book ? I exchange > news daily (average size 50-150 KB) without problem. I haven't tried to > transfert Xemacs in both ways simultaneously yet :-) I believe it was only over TCP. The problem was a division by the tty baudrate, which could sometimes be 0. Perhaps Andrey can tell more. I'm also getting news via that link, normally without problems. The problems only started when i was getting a large file (e.g. a 50 KB newsbatch), while i was sending a > 100 KB file simultaneously. Sending files only in a single direction always worked. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 04:52:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA07068 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 04:52:29 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA07039 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 04:52:11 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA08665; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:47:32 +1000 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:47:32 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510011147.VAA08665@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, mark@grondar.za Subject: Re: How to get to the hardware? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >#if defined (__i386__) && 0 > /* > * On a 386, read the high resolution timer. We assume that > * this gives us 2 bits of randomness. XXX This needs > * investigation. > */ > outb_p(0x00, 0x43); /* latch the count ASAP */ > add_entropy_byte(r, inb_p(0x40), 1); > add_entropy_byte(r, inb(0x40), 1); > r->entropy_count += 2; > if (r->entropy_count > r->bit_length) > r->entropy_count = r->bit_length; >#endif This is much the same as calling microtime() or gettimeofday() and and getting "random" bits from (tv_usec & 1) and (tv_usec & (1 << 7)) (here 7 is an approximation to (1e6 / TIMER_FREQ) * 8)). These bits are actually extremely non-random. They can be predicted as accurately as the current time if their values at a previous time are known. Thus they are insignificantly more random than the current time in microseconds. More investigation is required to find a source of random bits. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 05:32:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA10081 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 05:32:33 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA10074 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 05:32:30 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA15772 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 05:31:54 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01084; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:30:51 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04285; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:30:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199510011230.OAA04285@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@freebsd.org, mark@grondar.za Subject: Re: How to get to the hardware? Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 14:30:50 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > This is much the same as calling microtime() or gettimeofday() and > and getting "random" bits from (tv_usec & 1) and (tv_usec & (1 << 7)) > (here 7 is an approximation to (1e6 / TIMER_FREQ) * 8)). These bits > are actually extremely non-random. They can be predicted as accurately > as the current time if their values at a previous time are known. Thus > they are insignificantly more random than the current time in > microseconds. More investigation is required to find a source of > random bits. I suspected so. I think the code had better stay out as time is already used. More questions; where would be a good place to call these: (I am having a large problem with the add_interrupt_randomness one) * Exported interfaces ---- input * ============================== * * The two current exported interfaces for gathering environmental * noise from the devices are: * * void add_keyboard_randomness(unsigned char scancode); * void add_interrupt_randomness(int irq); * * The first function uses the inter-keypress timing, as well as the * scancode as random inputs into the "entropy pool". * * The second function uses the inter-interrupt timing as random * inputs to the entropy pool. Note that not all interrupts are good * sources of randomness! For example, the timer interrupts is not a * good choice, because the periodicity of the interrupts is to * regular, and hence predictable to an attacker. Disk interrupts are * a better measure, since the timing of the disk interrupts are more * unpredictable. The routines try to estimate how many bits of * randomness a particular interrupt channel offers, by keeping track * of the first and second order deltas in the interrupt timings. BTW - would you be prepared to review this code before committal? M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 05:54:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA11549 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 05:54:24 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA11544 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 05:54:21 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id IAA24338; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:50:14 -0400 Received: (from gene@localhost) by starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA14197; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:49:11 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:49:11 -0400 From: Gene Stark Message-Id: <199510011249.IAA14197@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> To: rah.star-gate.com!hasty@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu CC: rah.star-gate.com!hasty@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd.org!hackers@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu, star-gate.com!multimedia@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu In-reply-to: <199510010502.WAA00697@rah.star-gate.com> (rah.star-gate.com!hasty@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu) Subject: Re: Problems with VAT and Sound Code Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >For the purpose of using vat: > >vat -u /tmp/vatsock >vmix > >vmix communicates with vat via its socket interface for playing and >recording. I assume vmix is a user-level program, not a kernel driver, right? Are you saying that vat fails to communicate properly with the kernel sound code, that vmix does, and that stuff is more likely to work if vat talks to vmix and lets vmix talk to the sound cards? Why is that? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 07:28:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA15463 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 07:28:28 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA15442 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 07:28:15 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA13371; Sun, 1 Oct 95 14:27:37 GMT Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA26121; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:27:35 -0600 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:27:35 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9510011427.AA26121@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: tdwyer@netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (message from Terry Dwyer on Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:33:46 +0800 (WST)) Subject: Re: Low end PS laser, or inkjet/bubblejet Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk So the card must recognize two different printer names in order to do two different kinds of processing ... hmmmm. Thanks for posting that! -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA If you're a young Mafia gangster out on your first date, I bet it's real embarrassing if someone tries to kill you. -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 08:27:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA17495 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:27:31 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA17488 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:27:27 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA24974; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:27:08 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA27241; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:27:03 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA17603; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:25:06 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510011525.QAA17603@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: /bin/sh thinks it's csh To: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:25:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, gildea@x.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199509292009.QAA29806@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Sep 29, 95 04:09:21 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 435 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > Here's what happens on any else's box: > > % sh -c 'echo $1' foo bar baz > bar > % csh -c 'echo $1' foo bar baz > foo > POSIX.2 Section 4.56.3 says everyone else is right, and FreeBSD is ... > not right. Fixed in revision 1.5 of sh/options.c. Thanks! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 08:59:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA18609 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:59:13 -0700 Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.35.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA18600 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 08:59:04 -0700 Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA05049; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 10:58:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 10:58:59 -0500 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199510011558.KAA05049@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: gene@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with VAT and Sound Code Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: Gene Stark > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Problems with VAT and Sound Code > > Even with the sound code now in -stable, I am still unable to get VAT > to work with an SB-16. The symptom is that there is no sound. If you > select one of the audio tests, you hear nothing until you delete the > VAT window, at which time there is a very brief spurt of the test tone. > During the time there is no sound in the speakers, VAT appears to operate > normally. If you talk into the mike you can see the little level meter > bounce around, etc. A ps on VAT indicates it is spending its time in > select. I beleive you will have a lot of trouble getting vat to work directly with a SB-16. Vat requires a full duplex device. There is a program I wrote called vmix. This program interfaces with vat via a socket interface and emulates full duplex and does rate adjustment. Vat assumes that there is a continuous input source is running at 8khz. With most PC soundcards, running at 8khz is not possible. Some run fast (8100hz) and some run slow (7900hz). This causes several problems with vat. Vmix attempts to address these problems. Vmix is still alpha quality code, but Amancio convienced me to release it because some people would find it useful. If you pick up vmix (from ftp.cs.uwm.edu/pub/FreeBSD) check the README for problems with the SB-16 code. I don't have a SB card so I had to try and debug the problems remotly across the Internet (Thanks Charles). There is still a problem with the SB if one doesn't keep the playback buffer full. The dsp buzzes on start/stop for some reason. There are some patches in the README file that you will need for vmix to fix this problem. > > On the off chance that I might spot a problem in the audio select() > code, I started looking at that part of the drivers. My first impression > is that there are a *lot* of potential race conditions due to incorrect > positioning of DISABLE_INTR and ENABLE_INTR. Yup... I will fix that and submit a patch. Thanks for point this out. Did you spot any other potential problems other than this one? -Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 10:58:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA20832 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 10:58:05 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA20824 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 10:57:55 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id NAA18370; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:50:24 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:50:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: How to get to the hardware? To: Mark Murray cc: Bruce Evans , hackers@freebsd.org, mark@grondar.za In-Reply-To: <199510011230.OAA04285@grumble.grondar.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Mark Murray wrote: > * The second function uses the inter-interrupt timing as random > * inputs to the entropy pool. Note that not all interrupts are good > * sources of randomness! For example, the timer interrupts is not a the interrupt from a network card, provided one is available and connected to an active segment, may be a very good choice of inter-interrupt time period randomness. if a net device is not available, the time between key strokes is another source. this time period is used as a source of random bits by pgp when generating key pairs. > * good choice, because the periodicity of the interrupts is to > * regular, and hence predictable to an attacker. Disk interrupts are > * a better measure, since the timing of the disk interrupts are more > * unpredictable. The routines try to estimate how many bits of > * randomness a particular interrupt channel offers, by keeping track > * of the first and second order deltas in the interrupt timings. > > BTW - would you be prepared to review this code before committal? i would like to see a copy ;) Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 12:41:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24539 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 12:41:02 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24534 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 12:41:00 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA00470; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:40:37 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:40:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <8554.812400870@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Whoa, momma! Check out the size of that PERL mirror job! :-) As a side note, I manually snarfed the 950928 snapshot off freefall last night (ftp.io.org's mirroring seems to have fallen by the wayside recently) using ncftp 2.1.1's multiple recursive get feature. Today, I did the same thing to my home directory on aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw. It was able to download only the files that don't already exist, or had modification dates older than the ones on the remote site. So for simply mirroring needs, ncftp2 could be a suitable alternative, and doesn't use anywhere near the amount of memory that perl script does. BTW, ftp.io.org:/pub/systems/FreeBSD/2.1.0-950928-SNAP/ is now available, for the times when ftp.cdrom.com is busy. Now if I could only figure out how to get this damn BSD/OS box to accept more than 15 FTP logins at once (yes, I've edited /etc/ftpaccess)... :-/ > With 350 ftp users logged in along with 7 interactive users (one of > whom appears to be running emacs :-), Lose the emacs user and pump up the number of connections to 400. :) I couldn't get through to ftp.cdrom.com and finally gave up and checked freefall instead. > 31 active HTTP sessions and some 700K/sec streaming constantly out of > its one ethernet interface (as checked with netstat), When's the FDDI wire going in? :) > well, all I can say is: "This is a PC??!" :-) Amen, brother. :) > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more > memory, please! please! :-) Someone ought to port FreeBSD to run on the PowerMac 9500... six (or is it eight?) PCI slots, CPU daughterboard and 768 megs of RAM. *drool* *drool* :) Why not toss another similary-equipped PC on WC's network and round-robin FTP connections between the two? I'd love to see a FreeBSD system be the first on the net to advertise "maximum of 1000 simultaneous logins". :) -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 12:46:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24712 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 12:46:14 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24706 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 12:46:12 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA00532; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:46:04 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:46:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: <199509301557.LAA05520@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: > > NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution ready of installation? -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 12:57:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA25301 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 12:57:19 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA25294 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 12:57:16 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA00673; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:57:05 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:57:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: <15228.812444517@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Well folks, we've hit that wall we all knew was there and heading for > us at 120Mph.. The GENERIC kernel has simply gotten too big to fit > within 4MB now and no amount of paring back will deny a basic fact of > life: > > To fit in all the drivers we need to cover a reasonable set > of devices required at installation-time, we need more than > 4MB and if we didn't need it today, we'd need it tomorrow. Requiring more than 4 megabytes of RAM just to install an operating system (of any kind) is ridiculous. I don't care what Win95 or OS/2 Warp or anyone else requires. If they need at least 8 megs of RAM to run, then that leaves the whole 4-meg market open to us and You-Know-How in the alternative UNIX-like OS segment. We should be able to at least produce a bootable floppy with the CD-ROM that does not have any networking drivers and a minimal set of device drivers. Then, as I suggested a short while ago, the user can pick from a set of customized kernels on the CD-ROM to install permanently on disk. Or leave a full kernel on the floppy, but disable all the drivers and include instructions to the user on re-enabling just the ones that are needed. Will that save on memory usage? Or how about using the 2.0.5 boot floppy image? That works on a 4-meg machine, doesn't it? It shouldn't matter which kernel release is used for installation. -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:07:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA25843 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:07:36 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA25825 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:07:29 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA00815; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:07:18 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:07:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: /bin/sh thinks it's csh In-Reply-To: <199509292009.QAA29806@exalt.x.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > % sh -c 'echo $1' foo bar baz > foo > % csh -c 'echo $1' foo bar baz > foo > > POSIX.2 Section 4.56.3 says everyone else is right, and FreeBSD is ... > not right. 950726 has this beahviour too, which I always thought was correct. Why would $1 represent anything other than the first argument in argv? -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:11:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26202 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:11:41 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26181 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:11:34 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20224; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:05:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510012005.NAA20224@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How to get to the hardware? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:05:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510010904.LAA00617@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Oct 1, 95 11:04:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 782 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I am working on a device (/dev/random) to give truly nasty random numbers > for crypto/security use, and it is mostly going OK. I have some code > written by Theodore Ts'o, and it is good stuff, but it is for the Linux > kernel. Could someone please suggest to me the best way of doing the > following in the FreeBSD kernel: (I am not sure I like the concept of just > messing with the timer directly, and yes, I have had a look at microtime.s) > The bits I do not line are the outb_p() and inb_p(). There _has_ to be a > better way... The code shown is pseudo-random. What's wrong with the linear congruential algorithm in ran48/drand48? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:11:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26238 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:11:50 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26200 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:11:41 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01536; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:11:16 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA07423; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:11:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199510012011.WAA07423@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: outside 'des'-directory Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 22:11:15 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As a mirror site maintainer I would like to put up a > des directory equivalent to the ftp.freebsd.org site > for the latest SNAP and coming RELEASES. Great! The more the merrier... > At the moment I fetched the code from internat.freebsd.org > and put it with a README into the des directory, saying > that one had to rebuilt from source to get equivalent > DES crypt libraries and such. Less than optimal, I know... > Is this the correct way? Would it bee too much effort > for the za-site to produce ready made tar-balls from the sources? So far, I have been doing the releases only, as there is a bit of a problem synchronizing with the SNAP schedule. I fully intend to build snaps in the future. If you (Jordan) could give me warning of when you are building a snap, I could then synchronize with you and track it here. One of the reasons I have been slack is that my poor old machine takes +- 20 hours to complete a release, and it has _never_ run to completion without some manual intervention. This means that for about a whole weekend I have to babysit the SOB; bye-bye weekend, and my system is dog-slow for the duration. If some kind soul could donate a Pentium, I think I could improve on the timing (hint, hint) ;-) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:17:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26798 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:17:49 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26785 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:17:40 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20254; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:11:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510012011.NAA20254@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:11:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Oct 1, 95 03:40:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 361 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Someone ought to port FreeBSD to run on the PowerMac 9500... six > (or is it eight?) PCI slots, CPU daughterboard and 768 megs of RAM. > *drool* *drool* :) Someone would, if Apple would document the damn hardware. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:19:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26938 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:19:52 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26933 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:19:50 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20269; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:13:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510012013.NAA20269@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:13:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Oct 1, 95 03:57:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 708 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Requiring more than 4 megabytes of RAM just to install an > operating system (of any kind) is ridiculous. I don't care what > Win95 or OS/2 Warp or anyone else requires. If they need at least 8 > megs of RAM to run, then that leaves the whole 4-meg market open to us > and You-Know-How in the alternative UNIX-like OS segment. I run Win95 on a 4M machine. It isn't the fastest thing in the world, but it runs just fine. Best bet would be blow the CDROM drivers from generic for the net distribution, and NFS and other net parts as necessary from the CDROM. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:20:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27026 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:20:55 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA27016 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:20:48 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA16538 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:02:40 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA13591 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:59:05 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:59:05 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199510011959.OAA13591@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multiple mail messages Organization: Taronga Park BBS References: <199509242106.OAA03837@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article , Pete Carah wrote: >Are there enough directly-connected or even well-connected uucp sites that >a news feed of all these groups would make sense? I'm feeding these into newgroups here (taronga.freebsd.*). I could certainly set up newsfeeds for a freebsd.* hieararchy, using UUCP over TCP/IP. Yes, I've only got a 14.4k modem link but you'd be amazed what you can run over one of those (two mucks, the FreeBSD 1.1 archive, the Disney Afternoon Mailing List, a WWW site, and all my personal netting...). Multiple input sites would work well, if we all ran the same software. Anyone got a good automoderator for the responses? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:22:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27160 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:22:35 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27155 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:22:32 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20297; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:16:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510012016.NAA20297@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: /bin/sh thinks it's csh To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:16:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Oct 1, 95 04:07:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1483 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > > % sh -c 'echo $1' foo bar baz > > foo > > % csh -c 'echo $1' foo bar baz > > foo > > > > POSIX.2 Section 4.56.3 says everyone else is right, and FreeBSD is ... > > not right. > > 950726 has this beahviour too, which I always thought was correct. > Why would $1 represent anything other than the first argument in argv? man exec: The exec family of functions replaces the current process image with a new process image. The functions described in this manual page are front-ends for the function execve(2). (See the manual page for execve for detailed information about the replacement of the current process.) The initial argument for these functions is the pathname of a file which is to be executed. The const char *arg and subsequent ellipses in the execl(), execlp(), and execle() functions can be thought of as arg0, arg1, ..., argn. Together ^^^^ they describe a list of one or more pointers to null-terminated strings that represent the argument list available to the executed program. The first argument, by convention, should point to the file name associated with the file being executed. The list of arguments must be terminated by a NULL pointer. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:25:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27290 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:25:23 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27269 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:25:03 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA01055; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:24:18 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:24:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: <199510012013.NAA20269@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > and You-Know-How in the alternative UNIX-like OS segment. ^^^ ("Who", of course) > I run Win95 on a 4M machine. It isn't the fastest thing in the world, > but it runs just fine. Great... FreeBSD will be known as the OS-that's-more-bloated-than- the-King-of-Bloat-MS-Windows. Not to slam on the kernel developers, but there must be *some* way of being able to *install* the OS on a 4-meg machine??? > Best bet would be blow the CDROM drivers from generic for the net > distribution, and NFS and other net parts as necessary from the CDROM. If 2.1 fits in 5 megs, doing away with this stuff might push it back under 4 megs. I'd rather have potential users make a choice of which boot floppy to take (like Linux) than losing them completely because they can't even install it to begin with... -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:27:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27496 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:27:04 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27488 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:26:54 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01559; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:26:42 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA07503; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:26:41 +0200 Message-Id: <199510012026.WAA07503@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to get to the hardware? Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 22:26:41 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I am working on a device (/dev/random) to give truly nasty random numbers > > for crypto/security use, and it is mostly going OK. I have some code > > written by Theodore Ts'o, and it is good stuff, but it is for the Linux > > kernel. Could someone please suggest to me the best way of doing the > > following in the FreeBSD kernel: (I am not sure I like the concept of just > > messing with the timer directly, and yes, I have had a look at microtime.s) > > The bits I do not line are the outb_p() and inb_p(). There _has_ to be a > > better way... > > The code shown is pseudo-random. The insides of TS'o's code hunt down many unpredictable and volatile parameters in your machine, stirring them into a 'pool of entropy' from which some truly nasty numers can be drawn. > What's wrong with the linear congruential algorithm in ran48/drand48? Everything. They are not random, and they form a trackable sequence. The idea here is to generate a completely unpredictable starting point from which an exponential key exchange can springboard itself. Netscape was cracked because the possible starting points (time based) were from too small a set, and a bit of computing power broke it. This was well publicised on the net. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:32:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27777 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:32:22 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27765 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:32:06 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA02974; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:30:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199510012030.NAA02974@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: Terry Lambert , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 16:24:15 EDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 13:30:57 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> > and You-Know-How in the alternative UNIX-like OS segment. > ^^^ ("Who", of course) > >> I run Win95 on a 4M machine. It isn't the fastest thing in the world, >> but it runs just fine. > > Great... FreeBSD will be known as the OS-that's-more-bloated-than- >the-King-of-Bloat-MS-Windows. Not to slam on the kernel developers, >but there must be *some* way of being able to *install* the OS on a >4-meg machine??? Win95 has loadable device drivers. We don't. >-- >Brian Tao >System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. >"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:36:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27972 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:36:05 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user40.lightside.com [198.81.209.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27961 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:35:57 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA00306; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:36:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:36:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ATAPI only halfway committed to 2.1.0, boot floppy? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I just supped the latest -stable, and it looks like the IDE CD-ROM support is only halfway committed. Slightly old versions of atapi.c, atapi.h, and wcd.c are there, as well as the appropriate entries in files.i386 and conf.c, but wd.c hasn't been patched with the appropriate "#ifdef ATAPI" sections. I'm not sure if the right entry is in /dev/MAKEDEV since I can't seem to find it in the source tree! Can someone please commit the latest (ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/wcd18a.tgz) ATAPI driver to GENERIC, now that the IDE probing problems have been fixed? Also, Jordan, weren't you going to make an ATAPI boot floppy for FreeBSD 2.1.0? If so, it's not in the latest snapshot, and I was hoping to be able to test it out before release. Thanks in advance! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:40:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28289 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:40:53 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28282 ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:40:46 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA01386; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:40:40 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:40:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: <199510012030.NAA02974@aslan.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > > Win95 has loadable device drivers. We don't. We should. 2.2? :) -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:43:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28435 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:43:22 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user30.lightside.com [198.81.209.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28428 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:43:18 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA00342; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:44:21 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:43:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: jkh@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Calling all commercial software demo folks! Deadlines approach. In-Reply-To: <13353.812442394@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > If you would like to see a commercial demo of some sort make it onto > the CD, then the time to submit it is ASAP! > > "Commercial" in this instance is defined any as software for sale, > shareware, or a limited functionality/time-bombed demo. > > [...] > Jordan Maybe, FreeBSD could include an encrypted version of SWiM or some other commercial version of OSF/Motif 2.0 so that people who want to buy Motif would only have to send $99 or $149 or whatever to the vendor and get the key to decrypt it straight from the FreeBSD CD. I already know of at least one Linux vendor which has this sort of thing on their CD-ROM. Can anyone pursue this avenue further? Also, I already suggested to Jordan that there is an excellent Macintosh emulator from a company called ARDI (http://www.ardi.com/) which is currently for DOS/NextStep/Linux and seems to work okay under FreeBSD's Linux emulator. I forwarded the FreeBSD announcement on to ARDI, and I hope they would be willing to put the L*nux version on the FreeBSD CD and if they get a good response, maybe they will make a FreeBSD-native version? One can only hope... :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:55:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29045 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:55:31 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29040 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:55:28 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA21864; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:54:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA02470; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:55:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199510012055.NAA02470@corbin.Root.COM> To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ATAPI only halfway committed to 2.1.0, boot floppy? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 95 13:36:25 PDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 13:55:27 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I just supped the latest -stable, and it looks like the IDE CD-ROM support >is only halfway committed. Slightly old versions of atapi.c, atapi.h, and >wcd.c are there, Slightly old versions? There the exact same versions that are in -current. > as well as the appropriate entries in files.i386 and >conf.c, but wd.c hasn't been patched with the appropriate "#ifdef ATAPI" >sections. I'm not sure if the right entry is in /dev/MAKEDEV since I >can't seem to find it in the source tree! Can someone please commit the >latest (ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/wcd18a.tgz) ATAPI driver >to GENERIC, now that the IDE probing problems have been fixed? Yes, I know that the changes haven't been made to wd.c. This is intentional, and I do plan to bring these in soon (despite some objections to the contrary. Sigh). I had to make some changes to wd.c before bringing in the ATAPI stuff (the changes were to guarantee that the non-ATAPI case uses the original code). -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 13:57:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29136 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:57:10 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29129 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:57:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA24252; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 13:56:07 -0700 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Mark Murray , Bruce Evans , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to get to the hardware? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 13:50:21 EDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 13:56:06 -0700 Message-ID: <24250.812580966@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > the interrupt from a network card, provided one is available and > connected to an active segment, may be a very good choice of inter-interrupt > time period randomness. You guys should read the announcement text for Netscape 1.22. They describe some of the things they're using for randomizing factors now.. They use the current # of processes and a few other interesting things to increase their "entropy". Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 14:14:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA00274 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:14:57 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00256 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:14:41 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA01615; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:14:32 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08585; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:14:31 +0200 Message-Id: <199510012114.XAA08585@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Mark Murray , Bruce Evans , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to get to the hardware? Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 23:14:31 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > You guys should read the announcement text for Netscape 1.22. They > describe some of the things they're using for randomizing factors > now.. They use the current # of processes and a few other interesting > things to increase their "entropy". Yup, I saw that one. They obviously got quite a fright :-> M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 14:21:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA00643 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:21:22 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user34.lightside.com [198.81.209.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00637 ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:21:17 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA00231; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:22:21 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:21:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-Reply-To: <199509300002.RAA07960@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > FreeBSD 2.1 (pre-release) 950928-SNAP is now available for testing on > freefall.freebsd.org and ftp.cdrom.com: > > This fixes all currently open bugs from 950922-SNAP. Feedback > on this snapshot to me, please. > > [...] > Jordan There are a few remaining bugs in the fixit disk: 1) It's nice that you've included the floppy tape filter 'ft' on the fixit. It would be even nicer if you included the /dev/rft0 device node so we could actually use it! :-) 2) vi won't run unless it has a /tmp directory it can write to, and it complains if it doesn't have /var/tmp for it's vi.recover file. Simply 'mkdir /tmp /var/tmp' will fix this. 3) When I typed 'pwd' from the fixit shell, it complained 'can't find /stand/pwd' and went into some kind of weird subshell. Any further commands were just ignored, but exiting got me back to the previous shell. Finally, now that ftp.cdrom.com has mirrored the XFree86 3.1.2 binaries, why aren't those the default for installing FreeBSD 2.1.0? XFree86 3.1.2 has some significant improvements including using libgnumalloc and much better support for S3-based SVGA cards... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 14:25:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA00894 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:25:04 -0700 Received: from pelican.com (pelican.com [134.24.4.62]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA00877 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:24:52 -0700 Received: from puffin.pelican.com by pelican.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0szVsM-000K2lC; Sun, 1 Oct 95 14:24 WET DST Received: by puffin.pelican.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #9) id m0szVsL-0000ReC; Sun, 1 Oct 95 14:24 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sun, 1 Oct 95 14:24 PDT From: pete@puffin.pelican.com (Pete Carah) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: spl'ing to a specific interrupt level In-Reply-To: <199509300201.TAA15937@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry writes: ..... >OK, you're saying that your serail board driver code takes an interrupt, >but you are not going to provide tty (cannonical processing) device >entry points for it, you're writing everything from scratch, including >all behaviours. Some serial boards are specialized things that don't use any of the (existing) support routines - e.g. MPEG stream readers... [For this one 'net' is the most logical meaning but using it could impact performance of the ethernets if one held off int's too long.] They have to provide all interrupt and support code and it would be nice to not intersect with unnecessary classes (though if the hold-off time is short almost any existing class will do - I've taken tty since this machine needs good net performance too). Didn't know that slip 'or's net and tty. I'll take slip and ppp out of the config for the machine that doesn't need it then. (or is this 'or' not static in the masks and results just from spltty() code calling splnet() logically 'or'ing them?) >If this is the case, you will either need to take the collision with >one of the existing classes (relatively easy) or add another class >(relatively hard, from a cursory look at the code). I've used tty so far. >The block is there to prevent reentrance of the support routines called >at interrupt level that aren't reentrant on another interrupt. Hopefully anyone who dares to write a device driver knows this; if not they are in *serious* trouble. >> So, to answer your question, what I want to do is not to prioritize >> my device with respect to any other device - I just want a way >> to block my critical sections. >> >> Am I making this any clearer now? > >Yes. I assume you can critical code your own sections, so the problem >you face is that without a class, you don't get an interrupt and you >don't like the existing classes because of the concurrency penalty for >what will essentially be unshared code. >The "correct" answer is "make a class". The expidient answer, as above, >is to overload one of the existing classes. >If you don't expect to be doing serial I/O except through the board, I'd >think overloading the tty would be an acceptable thing. As in our case; the console is rarely used too (mostly remote, though pty's use spltty() too (looks like they call it directly only in select(), though)...) >If the serial board is sensitive to other people blocking it, and you >will be running X or some other control/monitoring system, then you >should still be safe with tty, if you make sure to use a bus or PS/2 >mouse (and deconfigure the serial ports to make sure). Though PS2 mouse interacts unacceptably with the keyboard driver at the moment; I manage to force a reboot several times per hour by killing the keyboard on my one ps2-mouse machine, just by moving the mouse too fast. I suspect that spl won't help and one has to integrate the psm driver into syscons/pcvt to avoid bit-map overlap problems on the keyboard control port (or am I reading this problem right?) Might a shared global of the current contents of that port (or ports?) cure the problem? >Otherwise, it's off to add a class. 8-(. Making that easy would be nice for those of us doing industrial-control or other specialized type systems... The necessity for config knowing all the valid classes could be eliminated by using a phrase for the class (e.g. "spl tty" or "spl net") as is now done for most other device config variables. Then the classes could be passed into the kernel make in a .h file to be munched by something at the time of (presumably before, since assym needs the classes) mkassym or such. This would complicate the macros spltty() some since that header would be dynamic (or would more macros and a split call like spl(tty) be better?) IEEE 488 and its various serial equivalents are examples of things that would fall into their own class (and a system could easily have more than one of them so the class would have to be a real class). There are several 422 industrial busses that use regular tty boards but don't need protection from regular tty processing since they are always used in raw mode. Maybe an raw-mode-only driver and another class could be useful for this case? -- Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 14:36:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA01580 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:36:26 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01573 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:36:22 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA00890; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:12:43 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA00456; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:12:43 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA08280; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:02:37 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510012102.WAA08280@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: /bin/sh thinks it's csh To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:02:35 +0100 (MET) Cc: taob@io.org, kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199510012016.NAA20297@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 1, 95 01:16:48 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 603 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > POSIX.2 Section 4.56.3 says everyone else is right, and FreeBSD is ... > > > not right. > > > > 950726 has this beahviour too, which I always thought was correct. > > Why would $1 represent anything other than the first argument in argv? > > > man exec: > > The exec family of functions replaces the current process image with a > new process image. Wrong quote. See my commit message for the correct one. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 14:55:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA02996 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:55:09 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user34.lightside.com [198.81.209.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02980 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:55:02 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA00322; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:56:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:56:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <8554.812400870@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > As a periodic reminder of what FreeBSD is doing on ftp.cdrom.com, I > thought I'd paste in the first page of the `top' listing I just ran > now.. > > [...] > > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more > memory, please! please! :-) > > Jordan You might want to check out Micron Electronics. Their SMP-capable motherboards can hold up to 512MB of DRAM!!! http://www.mei.micron.com/ Too bad FreeBSD doesn't support SMP just yet, or it would be even better! Imagine, a dual-Pentium ftp.cdrom.com with 512MB of RAM! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 15:06:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA03632 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:06:53 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA03624 ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:06:49 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA03183; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:06:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199510012206.PAA03183@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 16:40:39 EDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 15:06:19 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: >> >> Win95 has loadable device drivers. We don't. > > We should. 2.2? :) Given. I think it would be tough to get this in by 2.2, but certainly much of the ground work for it will be done by then. >-- >Brian Tao >System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. >"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 15:20:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA04641 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:20:52 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA04636 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:20:49 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA17121 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:02:34 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA15770; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:52:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:52:48 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199510012152.QAA15770@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vgalib for FreeBSD! Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <14563.812208186@time.cdrom.com> References: <199509270920.CAA23591@freefall.freebsd.org> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <14563.812208186@time.cdrom.com>, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >I'd like something that simply gave me basic line graphics in 320x200 >resolution or so. Then I could go implement all those cool GUI objects >I've been talking about with a dynamic rendering model that allows >fall-back to ncurses character graphics rendering in a pinch. ctk works, supports ncurses and X, and... more importantly... DOESN'T HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED AND EXTENDED BY THE FREEBSD TEAM. And the Tcl/Tk combination it uses is out of beta. Honestly, Jordan, I know you don't like the tk interface... but it works and solves the problem and you can't do everything yourself. Even if you *are* a Perl script on uppers. FreeBSD doesn't need Yet Another User Interface API That Nobody Else Uses. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 15:24:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA04897 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:24:13 -0700 Received: from virgo.ai.net (root@virgo.ai.net [198.69.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA04886 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:24:09 -0700 Received: from aries.ai.net (aries.ai.net [198.69.44.1]) by virgo.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA00966; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:23:55 -0400 Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id SAA28325; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:23:54 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:23:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Jake Hamby cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You might want to check out Micron Electronics. Their SMP-capable > motherboards can hold up to 512MB of DRAM!!! http://www.mei.micron.com/ > Too bad FreeBSD doesn't support SMP just yet, or it would be even better! > Imagine, a dual-Pentium ftp.cdrom.com with 512MB of RAM! As a matter of fact, I think SMP would be a great feature-addition. I wish I knew enough about SMP software design to actually help code for it. The new Pentium Pro [P6] systems when they get their 4 and 8-way SMP worked out will just scream. It would be a shame to have to abandon FreeBSD [on ftp.cdrom.com] or on other machines for an OS like NT, SCO or Unixware. Sure, it may be a few months before people actually start buying enough of those machines to make a difference, but for the next 2-4 years, SMP seems the way things will be. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 15:24:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA04963 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:24:37 -0700 Received: from virgo.ai.net (root@virgo.ai.net [198.69.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA04956 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:24:33 -0700 Received: from aries.ai.net (aries.ai.net [198.69.44.1]) by virgo.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA00971; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:24:20 -0400 Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id SAA28334; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:24:15 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:24:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Jake Hamby cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into > > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is > > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more > > memory, please! please! :-) What happened to the old motherboard with 192MB of RAM? -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 15:28:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA05133 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:28:27 -0700 Received: from nike.efn.org (gurney_j@haus.efn.org [198.68.17.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA05125 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:28:23 -0700 Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA00251; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:32:49 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:32:47 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Mark Murray , Bruce Evans , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to get to the hardware? In-Reply-To: <24250.812580966@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > the interrupt from a network card, provided one is available and > > connected to an active segment, may be a very good choice of inter-interrupt > > time period randomness. > > You guys should read the announcement text for Netscape 1.22. They > describe some of the things they're using for randomizing factors > now.. They use the current # of processes and a few other interesting > things to increase their "entropy". > > Jordan actually... they should use the # of processes... on many machines like my that are only used by one person... the # or processes rarely flucuates... and is very predictable... TTYL.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 15:50:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA05508 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:50:25 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA05503 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:50:22 -0700 Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA26393; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:49:46 -0500 Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Sun, 1 Oct 95 17:49 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com To: nc@ai.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:49:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Oct 1, 95 06:24:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 894 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into > > > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is > > > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more > > > memory, please! please! :-) > > What happened to the old motherboard with 192MB of RAM? > > -Jerry. Uh, excuse me, but I have in front of me a TYAN board with dual 135Mhz Pentia and support and sockets for 512MB of RAM. EISA/PCI bus architecture. Very, very slick design. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 15:55:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA05581 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:55:23 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA05576 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:55:21 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA03348; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:54:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199510012254.PAA03348@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: nc@ai.net (Network Coordinator), jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 17:49:45 CDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 15:54:50 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> What happened to the old motherboard with 192MB of RAM? >> >> -Jerry. > >Uh, excuse me, but I have in front of me a TYAN board with dual 135Mhz >Pentia and support and sockets for 512MB of RAM. > >EISA/PCI bus architecture. Very, very slick design. > Well, it must not be Triton based so you'll pay in memory bandwidth. How many PCI slots/PCI bus masters can it support? What chipset is it based on? >-- >Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity >Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland >Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more >Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net >ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 16:10:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA05848 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:10:59 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA05838 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:10:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA05709 ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:05:50 +0100 To: Network Coordinator cc: Jake Hamby , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 18:24:15 EDT." Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 00:05:46 +0100 Message-ID: <5707.812588746@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Network Coordinator stands accused of writing in message ID : >> > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into >> > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is >> > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more >> > memory, please! please! :-) >What happened to the old motherboard with 192MB of RAM? Being a neptune chipset it couldn't support the numberof bus-mastering PCI controllers that we wanted (3 scsi cards, 1 ether card). I seem to remember we even had problems getting 2 2940's to work in it at the same time... The new m/b only has 4 simm slots, but it has better PCI support. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 16:39:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA06295 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:39:47 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA06290 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:39:43 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA08602; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:43:04 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:43:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Brian Tao From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: >> >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution >ready of installation? >-- Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great business decision. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 17:21:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA06866 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:21:23 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA06855 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:21:19 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA20655; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:15:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510020015.RAA20655@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: /bin/sh thinks it's csh To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:15:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Oct 1, 95 04:27:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 403 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So argv[0] is the name of the command ("echo") and argv[1] (or $1) > is the first argument, which is "foo". Why is it proper for POSIX sh > to return the second argument, "bar"? Is "foo" considered the command > name in the above case? echo is a builtin. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 17:28:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA07189 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:28:00 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA07184 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:27:58 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00326; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:27:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199510020027.RAA00326@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: Brian Tao , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 19:43:04 EDT." <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 17:27:41 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> dennis said: > >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: > >> > >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. > > > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How > >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg > >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution > >ready of installation? > >-- > > > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great > business decision. > > Dennis > Oh guys, is not a big deal to build a kernel if you are unix awared however the so called "idiots" are a pain in the butt to support . Also, there is nothing that can prevent us from loading a different kernel once the system is up and running. For instance, during the first install phase one could ask to load into disk a bloated kernel or not. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 17:29:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA07249 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:29:20 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA07244 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:29:18 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA03243; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:28:38 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510020028.RAA03243@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 17:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: taob@io.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Oct 1, 95 07:43:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1179 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk remember that what we are suggesting is not that we drop support for this or that, but that we supply a couple of different install versions.. people with 4MB would have to do without SOMETHING... machines with more can use the default install.. > > >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: > >> > >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. > > > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How > >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg > >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution > >ready of installation? > >-- > > > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great > business decision. > > Dennis > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 18:01:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08291 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:01:11 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08286 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:01:08 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA03313 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:01:04 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:01:04 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510020101.SAA03313@ref.tfs.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: LKM registration.. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Looking at teh LKM code, it apears to me that a device driver can either be block or char, but not both? am I misreading something? julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 18:14:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08960 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:14:33 -0700 Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu (PO4.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.104]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08949 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:14:30 -0700 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po4.andrew.cmu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA13428; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:14:25 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix16.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix16.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix16.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.unix16.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:12:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert N Watson To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> References: <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 1-Oct-95 Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will requir.. dennis@etinc.com (874*) > >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: > >> > >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. > > > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How > >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg > >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution > >ready of installation? > >-- > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great > business decision. How about two boot disks, then? An installation-by phone/etc disk with ppp/ftp support, and a mnetwork version for 8 meg+ systems that has nfs and the ethernet drivers.. Of maybe just an NFS install disk and a non-nfs install disk.. Assumably no one would nfs over a ppp line (bad assumption, but ok, I think). ---- Robert Watson (rnw+@andrew.cmu.edu) * Double major: IDS/CS * H&SS http://www.watson.org/ robert@fledge.watson.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 18:14:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08967 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:14:34 -0700 Received: from po4.andrew.cmu.edu (PO4.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.104]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08953 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:14:31 -0700 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po4.andrew.cmu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA13428; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:14:25 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix16.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix16.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix16.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.unix16.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:12:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert N Watson To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> References: <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 1-Oct-95 Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will requir.. dennis@etinc.com (874*) > >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: > >> > >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. > > > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How > >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg > >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution > >ready of installation? > >-- > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great > business decision. How about two boot disks, then? An installation-by phone/etc disk with ppp/ftp support, and a mnetwork version for 8 meg+ systems that has nfs and the ethernet drivers.. Of maybe just an NFS install disk and a non-nfs install disk.. Assumably no one would nfs over a ppp line (bad assumption, but ok, I think). ---- Robert Watson (rnw+@andrew.cmu.edu) * Double major: IDS/CS * H&SS http://www.watson.org/ robert@fledge.watson.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 18:49:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA10070 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:49:02 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA10063 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:49:00 -0700 Received: from latte.eng.umd.edu (latte.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.15]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20599; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by latte.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id VAA12537; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:48:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Robert N Watson cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Robert N Watson wrote: > Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 1-Oct-95 Re: FreeBSD > 2.1 will requir.. dennis@etinc.com (874*) > > > >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: > > >> > > >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. > > > > > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How > > >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg > > >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution > > >ready of installation? > > >-- > > > > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to > > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on > > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great > > business decision. > > How about two boot disks, then? An installation-by phone/etc disk with > ppp/ftp support, and a mnetwork version for 8 meg+ systems that has nfs > and the ethernet drivers.. Of maybe just an NFS install disk and a > non-nfs install disk.. Assumably no one would nfs over a ppp line (bad > assumption, but ok, I think). I think we're talking about 3 levels of hacker here: 1) little machine, wants to experiment with this Unix thingy. 2) little machine, hacker who knows more but is cash-strapped. 3) bigger machine, wants to change versions or test. I think you have to allow the category 1 guy in, somehow, but I get the idea that doing this on SNAPs might not be too good an idea. Realize this guy hasn't got the experience to get himself out of even the smallest trouble, and should be kept away from anything not real well tested. Making 4 megs SNAPs available for this guy might be asking to trouble, because that's giving him access to versions not too well tested. Category 2 guy knows some unix, can make his own kernels, can get himself out of trouble (much of the time). This will include some folks doing custom things, but such a person does know how to make his own kernels. A minimum kernel should get him up, but not necessarily with every possible interface. CDROM interface might be good to chop here, because this hacker can add his own without too much trouble. Some effort to give this type 4 meg access is reasonable, because he's testing on behalf of the Category 1 fella. Category 3 includes most folks reading this. They are the ones that look hardest at the SNAPs, and must be catered to for installation, because they're putting their own time in it, usually on behalf of others. 4 megs is unlikely to be a limitation here. I think I'm arguing for 2 boot versions, least it seems so. > ---- > Robert Watson (rnw+@andrew.cmu.edu) * Double major: IDS/CS * H&SS > http://www.watson.org/ robert@fledge.watson.org > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 18:49:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA10080 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:49:03 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA10066 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:49:01 -0700 Received: from latte.eng.umd.edu (latte.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.15]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20599; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by latte.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id VAA12537; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:48:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Robert N Watson cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Robert N Watson wrote: > Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 1-Oct-95 Re: FreeBSD > 2.1 will requir.. dennis@etinc.com (874*) > > > >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: > > >> > > >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. > > > > > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How > > >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg > > >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution > > >ready of installation? > > >-- > > > > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to > > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on > > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great > > business decision. > > How about two boot disks, then? An installation-by phone/etc disk with > ppp/ftp support, and a mnetwork version for 8 meg+ systems that has nfs > and the ethernet drivers.. Of maybe just an NFS install disk and a > non-nfs install disk.. Assumably no one would nfs over a ppp line (bad > assumption, but ok, I think). I think we're talking about 3 levels of hacker here: 1) little machine, wants to experiment with this Unix thingy. 2) little machine, hacker who knows more but is cash-strapped. 3) bigger machine, wants to change versions or test. I think you have to allow the category 1 guy in, somehow, but I get the idea that doing this on SNAPs might not be too good an idea. Realize this guy hasn't got the experience to get himself out of even the smallest trouble, and should be kept away from anything not real well tested. Making 4 megs SNAPs available for this guy might be asking to trouble, because that's giving him access to versions not too well tested. Category 2 guy knows some unix, can make his own kernels, can get himself out of trouble (much of the time). This will include some folks doing custom things, but such a person does know how to make his own kernels. A minimum kernel should get him up, but not necessarily with every possible interface. CDROM interface might be good to chop here, because this hacker can add his own without too much trouble. Some effort to give this type 4 meg access is reasonable, because he's testing on behalf of the Category 1 fella. Category 3 includes most folks reading this. They are the ones that look hardest at the SNAPs, and must be catered to for installation, because they're putting their own time in it, usually on behalf of others. 4 megs is unlikely to be a limitation here. I think I'm arguing for 2 boot versions, least it seems so. > ---- > Robert Watson (rnw+@andrew.cmu.edu) * Double major: IDS/CS * H&SS > http://www.watson.org/ robert@fledge.watson.org > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 19:12:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA11069 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:12:54 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA11062 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:12:50 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA09018 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:16:20 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:16:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199510020216.WAA09018@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Robert N Watson wrote: > >> Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 1-Oct-95 Re: FreeBSD >> 2.1 will requir.. dennis@etinc.com (874*) >> >> > >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: >> > >> >> > >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. >> > > >> > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How >> > >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg >> > >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution >> > >ready of installation? >> > >-- >> >> >> > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to >> > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on >> > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great >> > business decision. >> >> How about two boot disks, then? An installation-by phone/etc disk with >> ppp/ftp support, and a mnetwork version for 8 meg+ systems that has nfs >> and the ethernet drivers.. Of maybe just an NFS install disk and a >> non-nfs install disk.. Assumably no one would nfs over a ppp line (bad >> assumption, but ok, I think). > >I think we're talking about 3 levels of hacker here: > >1) little machine, wants to experiment with this Unix thingy. >2) little machine, hacker who knows more but is cash-strapped. >3) bigger machine, wants to change versions or test. > >I think you have to allow the category 1 guy in, somehow, but I get the idea >that doing this on SNAPs might not be too good an idea. Realize this guy >hasn't got the experience to get himself out of even the smallest >trouble, and should be kept away from anything not real well tested. >Making 4 megs SNAPs available for this guy might be asking to trouble, >because that's giving him access to versions not too well tested. > You forgot: 4 - Reseller / Integrater who wants to built the least expensive possible to system to be competitive. We're talking about letting everyone in without making sizable trade-offs. The Linux people have figured it out, now we're trying to figure out if the FreeBSD guys can. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 19:48:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA12416 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:48:40 -0700 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA12406 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:48:33 -0700 Received: from server.cs.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa14679; 1 Oct 95 22:48 EDT Received: from agate.cs.Virginia.EDU by uvacs.cs.virginia.edu (4.1/5.1.UVA) id AA16037; Sun, 1 Oct 95 22:48:31 EDT Posted-Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by agate.cs.Virginia.EDU (4.1/SMI-2.0) id AA10373; Sun, 1 Oct 95 22:48:30 EDT Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:48:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: inetd & signal 6 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks, I began tracking current via CTM about a week ago. Last CTM applied: 1032. inetd dumps core during boot after receiving a signal 6. It appears to be a child, because there is still an inetd running, but no messages other than "inetd exiting" are found in the messages log. Incidentally, the message immediately following it in the log is that slattach has been restarted. Am I experiencing somekind of timing problem in my start up scripts? I have also begun having problems with route not finding the network when attempting to add the default route at boot time. Any ideas? I do not have the time to track this down myself, but if someone is interested, I am willing to recompile with debug info and help as best I can. cheers, Adrian adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| Support your local programmer, http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~atf3r/ --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! Member: The League for -->>| info at ftp.uu.net:/doc/lpf, print Programming Freedom ->| "join.ps.Z" for an application From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 19:53:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA12705 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:53:03 -0700 Received: from gold.interlog.com (gold.interlog.com [198.53.145.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA12688 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:52:50 -0700 Received: from lotbiniere.interlog.com (lotbiniere.interlog.com [198.53.146.76]) by gold.interlog.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id WAA08950 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:52:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lotbiniere.interlog.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA00819 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:56:24 -0400 Message-Id: <199510020256.WAA00819@lotbiniere.interlog.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lotbiniere.interlog.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Michel Joly de Lotbiniere Reply-to: mjdl@interlog.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Linux Console Terminal Documentation Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 22:56:22 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk FYI: A little while ago there was some exchanges concerning SCO terminals, syscons, and various abstruse terminal matters -- I've deleted my own copies -- in the course of which some lamented the lack of documentation for the Linux Console driver. I just noticed in comp.os.linux.announce an article by : Peter Jones with the id number purporting to document this portion of the Linux monster. Happy termcapping ========================= Michel Joly de Lotbiniere mjdl@interlog.com ========================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 20:58:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA14534 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 20:58:50 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA14529 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 20:58:46 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02734 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 20:58:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199510020358.UAA02734@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: netscape needs mirrors :) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 20:58:37 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, they can't handle the load so maybe we can step in :) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 21:07:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA14885 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:07:55 -0700 Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA14879 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:07:52 -0700 Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA15403; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:10:34 -0600 From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199510020410.WAA15403@hemi.com> Subject: Re: netscape needs mirrors :) To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:10:34 -0600 (MDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510020358.UAA02734@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Oct 1, 95 08:58:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 664 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Apparently, they can't handle the load so maybe we can step in :) > Last time we offered to distribute Netscape via our system and be a mirror site and provide resources for free, Netscape wanted to charge us $6000 and $20 for each copy we give out. That policy does wonders for a tiny company like ours. As a comparison, a VP of a `very popular windows mail program' personally waived all fees so we could distribute his program in our disks. -Ade -------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 21:32:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA15764 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:32:19 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15755 ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:32:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA25237; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:32:00 -0700 To: Jake Hamby cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 14:21:56 PDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 21:32:00 -0700 Message-ID: <25235.812608320@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1) It's nice that you've included the floppy tape filter 'ft' on the > fixit. It would be even nicer if you included the /dev/rft0 device node > so we could actually use it! :-) What's wrong with the ft0 device already on the boot floppy's /dev? The fixit fd's dev directory should actually be _pared down_ a fair bit to reduce the redundant device entries which were left behind when it switched roles. Perhaps I'm simply misunderstanding something. > 2) vi won't run unless it has a /tmp directory it can write to, and it > complains if it doesn't have /var/tmp for it's vi.recover file. Simply > 'mkdir /tmp /var/tmp' will fix this. I suppose I could create these if they don't already exist.. Or I could make them part of the MFS. > 3) When I typed 'pwd' from the fixit shell, it complained 'can't find > /stand/pwd' and went into some kind of weird subshell. Any further > commands were just ignored, but exiting got me back to the previous > shell. That's weird. :-) > Finally, now that ftp.cdrom.com has mirrored the XFree86 3.1.2 binaries, > why aren't those the default for installing FreeBSD 2.1.0? XFree86 3.1.2 > has some significant improvements including using libgnumalloc and much > better support for S3-based SVGA cards... They are now. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 21:48:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16165 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:48:11 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16159 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:48:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA25303; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:47:44 -0700 To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 14:56:00 PDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 21:47:44 -0700 Message-ID: <25301.812609264@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You might want to check out Micron Electronics. Their SMP-capable > motherboards can hold up to 512MB of DRAM!!! http://www.mei.micron.com/ > Too bad FreeBSD doesn't support SMP just yet, or it would be even better! > Imagine, a dual-Pentium ftp.cdrom.com with 512MB of RAM! These are Neptune chipset boards. Forget about using a reasonable combination of bus mastering SCSI controller and ethernet interface cards! :-( 2 is the limit. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 21:49:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16222 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:49:34 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16217 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:49:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA25314; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:48:51 -0700 To: Network Coordinator cc: Jake Hamby , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 18:24:15 EDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 21:48:51 -0700 Message-ID: <25312.812609331@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into > > > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is > > > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more > > > memory, please! please! :-) > > What happened to the old motherboard with 192MB of RAM? > > -Jerry. > Neptune chipset. We needed 3 SCSI controllers and fast ethernet, and only the Tritons will do that so far. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 21:52:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16322 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:52:52 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16315 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:52:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA25334; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:52:22 -0700 To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vgalib for FreeBSD! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 16:52:48 CDT." <199510012152.QAA15770@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 21:52:21 -0700 Message-ID: <25331.812609541@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Honestly, Jordan, I know you don't like the tk interface... but it works and > solves the problem and you can't do everything yourself. Even if you *are* a > Perl script on uppers. Peter, I love the Tk interface! It's great! Review my postings on this topic over the last 6 months and you'll find ample confirmation of this. What I don't like is the Ctk interface! Need I repeat my arguments on picking the proper targets for overloading for the nth time? I hope not! :( I do not like Ctk and ham! I do not like them, Sam I am! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 21:55:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16409 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:55:32 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16404 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:55:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA25357; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:54:30 -0700 To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: nc@ai.net (Network Coordinator), jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 17:49:45 CDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 21:54:30 -0700 Message-ID: <25355.812609670@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Uh, excuse me, but I have in front of me a TYAN board with dual 135Mhz > Pentia and support and sockets for 512MB of RAM. > > EISA/PCI bus architecture. Very, very slick design. Which chipset? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 21:57:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16474 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:57:05 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16467 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:57:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id FAA06499 ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:56:21 +0100 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 21:48:51 PDT." <25312.812609331@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 05:56:16 +0100 Message-ID: <6497.812609776@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" stands accused of writing in message ID <25312.812609331@time.cdrom.com>: >Neptune chipset. We needed 3 SCSI controllers and fast ethernet, and >only the Tritons will do that so far. Not QUITE. fast ethernet to me means 100bTX. I think we ALL wish wcarchive had a 100bTX link :-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 22:12:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA16763 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:12:21 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA16757 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:12:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA25476 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:12:05 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: OK! Time out on 4MB issue please! Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 22:12:04 -0700 Message-ID: <25474.812610724@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Sorry to have aroused so much ire, folks! But try and see this a little bit from my perspective, if you will. I have seen this demon pop up in *every* release since 2.0, to be fought grudgingly back each time. The day will come when we run entirely out of options if we keep going on this way, but perhaps I can forestall that for just a little while longer with 2.1. I will try to implement a few of the suggestions that folks have sent me over the last few days for shrinking the kernel back below 1MB for 2.1. This should bring the 4MB folks back. I will not be anywhere near as sympathetic about this come 2.2 time, so I hope that the "small memory" advocates can get the all-singing, all-dancing dynamic load/unload device driver mechanism put together by then! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 22:19:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA16910 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:19:35 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA16905 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:19:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA25514; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:19:04 -0700 To: Gary Palmer cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Oct 1995 05:56:16 BST." <6497.812609776@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 22:19:04 -0700 Message-ID: <25512.812611144@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Not QUITE. fast ethernet to me means 100bTX. I think we ALL wish > wcarchive had a 100bTX link :-) Sorry, I meant "fast" as in "PCI ethernet card vs ISA" in this context. I always refer to the other as "hundred-base-tee." :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 22:22:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA17101 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:22:40 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA17093 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:22:32 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id GAA07400; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 06:21:06 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA04034; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 06:21:06 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA17843; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:09:51 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510012309.AAA17843@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:09:49 +0100 (MET) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Oct 1, 95 02:21:56 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1451 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jake Hamby wrote: > > There are a few remaining bugs in the fixit disk: > > 1) It's nice that you've included the floppy tape filter 'ft' on the > fixit. It would be even nicer if you included the /dev/rft0 device node > so we could actually use it! :-) > > 2) vi won't run unless it has a /tmp directory it can write to, and it > complains if it doesn't have /var/tmp for it's vi.recover file. Simply > 'mkdir /tmp /var/tmp' will fix this. > > 3) When I typed 'pwd' from the fixit shell, it complained 'can't find > /stand/pwd' and went into some kind of weird subshell. Any further > commands were just ignored, but exiting got me back to the previous > shell. There are most likely more things missing. I haven't checked the current state of affairs, my 2.1-alpha is being built right now. Last time i've checked the fixit floppy, many things weren't there. Among them (offhand): o a minimum termcap file o a non-null spwd.db file (containing at least the root entry, so rsh/rcp/rdump/rrestore would work) o mount_mfs, to enable large /tmp filesystems; restore requires lots of space in /tmp in order to drop its symtab files o the ps(1) command was entirely useless (no /dev/kmem, no kernel with a symbol table around) Does anyone else have wishes for the fixit floppy? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 22:40:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA17359 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:40:17 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA17350 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:40:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA02227; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:40:35 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199510020540.KAA02227@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:40:34 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20482.812479445@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 30, 95 09:44:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2095 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > For some machines (e.g. laptops) it is too expensive to add memory, > > often they use special modules or just don't have the slots. I > > think we can manage by making it not too hard for 4MB users to > > build their own boot floppy (on a guest system, if it cannot be > > supplied as default). > > Alternately, and I'm not fundamentally opposed to this, if someone out > there wants to sit down and build a boot floppy that WILL work in 4MB > by ripping some large piece of its component anatomy out, well, I > certainly won't stand in their way and will even go as far as sticking > it on the CDROM and the FTP areas with a little note to the effect > that it's to be considered a solution of last resort for 4MB folks. > > I just don't want to have to go down that road myself - I have too > many larger install issues to worry about between now and next Sunday. May be I have lost some important points in your discussion but why you cannot use 2 boot floppies ? It may be an option, you can put both single-floppy and double-floppy versions on the CD-ROM. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia > > For some machines (e.g. laptops) it is too expensive to add memory, > > often they use special modules or just don't have the slots. I > > think we can manage by making it not too hard for 4MB users to > > build their own boot floppy (on a guest system, if it cannot be > > supplied as default). > > Alternately, and I'm not fundamentally opposed to this, if someone out > there wants to sit down and build a boot floppy that WILL work in 4MB > by ripping some large piece of its component anatomy out, well, I > certainly won't stand in their way and will even go as far as sticking > it on the CDROM and the FTP areas with a little note to the effect > that it's to be considered a solution of last resort for 4MB folks. > > I just don't want to have to go down that road myself - I have too > many larger install issues to worry about between now and next Sunday. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 22:52:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA17642 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:52:33 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA17636 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:52:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA25644; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:51:08 -0700 To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATAPI only halfway committed to 2.1.0, boot floppy? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 1995 13:36:25 PDT." Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 22:51:08 -0700 Message-ID: <25642.812613068@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Also, Jordan, weren't you going to make an ATAPI boot floppy for FreeBSD > 2.1.0? If so, it's not in the latest snapshot, and I was hoping to be > able to test it out before release. Thanks in advance! "Soon!" Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 23:13:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA18147 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:13:27 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA18142 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:13:25 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA06755; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:11:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA02569; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:13:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199510020613.XAA02569@corbin.Root.COM> To: Network Coordinator cc: Jake Hamby , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Oct 95 18:24:15 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 23:13:13 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into >> > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is >> > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more >> > memory, please! please! :-) > >What happened to the old motherboard with 192MB of RAM? Several things. First, the mix of disk controllers that was in the machine would not work with the newer 4GB drives. In fact, they corrupted the contents. This forced us to upgrade the controllers, and while I would have prefered to have used all Buslogic 946C's, they would *not* cooperate. It was impossible, in fact, to get more than one working at the same time. So I tried to get the AHA-2940's working in it, and that wouldn't work either - the old ASUS motherboard was not PCI 2.0 compliant and wouldn't work with plug-n-play cards like the 2940. So we upgraded the motherboard (which was needed anyway because the Neptune chipset only works with 2 PCI bus masters) and then found that the Buslogics wouldn't work at all. So then I upgraded all of the disk controllers to (3) AHA-2940's. This actually worked, but presented other minor problems which we've been dealing with since (various bugs in the 2940 driver). Anyway, the new motherboard only supports 4 SIMMs. I've been unable to find a Triton based MB that supports more than 4. Switching to some other chipset really isn't an option at this point either - we need the memory speed advantages of the Triton in order to keep up with all of the load. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 23:38:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA18560 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:38:48 -0700 Received: from oasis.txdirect.net (oasis.txdirect.net [204.57.120.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA18555 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:38:45 -0700 Received: (from rsnow@localhost) by oasis.txdirect.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA05300; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 01:37:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 01:37:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Snow X-Sender: rsnow@oasis To: David Greenman cc: Network Coordinator , Jake Hamby , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199510020613.XAA02569@corbin.Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, David Greenman wrote: > >> > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into > >> > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is > >> > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more > >> > memory, please! please! :-) > > > >What happened to the old motherboard with 192MB of RAM? > > Several things. First, the mix of disk controllers that was in the machine > would not work with the newer 4GB drives. In fact, they corrupted the contents. > This forced us to upgrade the controllers, and while I would have prefered > to have used all Buslogic 946C's, they would *not* cooperate. It was > impossible, in fact, to get more than one working at the same time. So I tried > to get the AHA-2940's working in it, and that wouldn't work either - the old > ASUS motherboard was not PCI 2.0 compliant and wouldn't work with plug-n-play > cards like the 2940. So we upgraded the motherboard (which was needed anyway > because the Neptune chipset only works with 2 PCI bus masters) and then found > that the Buslogics wouldn't work at all. So then I upgraded all of the disk > controllers to (3) AHA-2940's. This actually worked, but presented other minor > problems which we've been dealing with since (various bugs in the 2940 driver). > Anyway, the new motherboard only supports 4 SIMMs. I've been unable to > find a Triton based MB that supports more than 4. Switching to some other > chipset really isn't an option at this point either - we need the memory speed > advantages of the Triton in order to keep up with all of the load. > > -DG The new Tyan III has 6 SIMM slots and is Triton, however it only supports 128MB. (I think its a Trition thing, not a simm slot thing) I've recently heard of a NEW Opti chipset that __supposed__ to be very good and I __believe__ I read it'll support 512MB. ( I believe it does EDO, PB, SB and all that stuff :-) ) /* * disclaimer, * this is all from my non-parity memory so: * I could be completely WRONG on all this sh*t :-) */ ______________________________________________________________________ Rob Snow Powered by FreeBSD rsnow@txdirect.net http://www.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 1 23:53:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA18797 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:53:59 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA18788 ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:53:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199510020653.XAA18788@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED To: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org, sos@freebsd.org, ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Sep 29, 95 03:32:31 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 678 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jonathan M. Bresler who wrote: > > I'll see if I can find one. I certainly have SCO manuals; I guess I can > > type one in if I have to. > > ackkk!!! if this information is available on a SCO 3.2.2 system. > i can get it. give me the filename! Hmm, I was looking for something never say 3.2.4 or something, I think they added vital things along the way... Other than this I think the man pages are something like screen, keybord or something like that... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 00:06:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA19083 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:06:14 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA19078 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:06:11 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0szet0-000I1OC; Mon, 2 Oct 95 08:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0szeOm-000016C; Mon, 2 Oct 95 07:30 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: LKM registration.. To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:30:48 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510020101.SAA03313@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 1, 95 06:01:04 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 370 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Julian Elischer: > Looking at teh LKM code, it apears to me that > a device driver can either be block or char, but not both? > am I misreading something? I read the same. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 00:19:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA19228 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:19:35 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA19221 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:19:25 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA09019; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:17:40 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA04511; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:17:40 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA26723; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:30:42 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510020630.HAA26723@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: /bin/sh thinks it's csh To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:30:40 +0100 (MET) Cc: taob@io.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199510020015.RAA20655@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 1, 95 05:15:06 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1475 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > So argv[0] is the name of the command ("echo") and argv[1] (or $1) > > is the first argument, which is "foo". Why is it proper for POSIX sh > > to return the second argument, "bar"? Is "foo" considered the command ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > name in the above case? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > echo is a builtin. Builtin or not doesn't matter. (Even the builtin echo is executed like any regular command as a different process.) The simple answer to Brian's question is: yes. Here's my commit message again: revision 1.5 date: 1995/10/01 15:11:42; author: joerg; state: Exp; lines: +4 -1 Posixize: sh -c [-aCefinuvx] command_string [ command_name [argument ...] ] ^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 4.56.3 Options -c Read commands from the command_string operand. Set the ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ value of special parameter 0 (see 3.5.2) from the value of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the command_name operand and the positional parameters ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ($1, $2, etc.) in sequence from the remaining argument operands. Pointed out by: Kaleb Keithley (kaleb@x.org) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 00:23:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA19331 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:23:35 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA19326 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 00:23:18 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA09165 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:23:08 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA04538 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:23:08 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA19063 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:20:53 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510020720.IAA19063@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:20:51 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199510020540.KAA02227@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Oct 2, 95 10:40:34 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 578 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > > I just don't want to have to go down that road myself - I have too > > many larger install issues to worry about between now and next Sunday. > > May be I have lost some important points in your discussion but why you > cannot use 2 boot floppies ? It may be an option, you can put both > single-floppy and double-floppy versions on the CD-ROM. Very simple: somebody actually _has_to_implement_it_! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 02:54:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA29713 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 02:54:05 -0700 Received: from vinkku.hut.fi (root@vinkku.hut.fi [130.233.245.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA29705 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 02:53:51 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-4.hut.fi (lk-hp-4.hut.fi [130.233.244.35]) by vinkku.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) with ESMTP id LAA06867; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:53:37 +0200 Received: (vode@localhost) by lk-hp-4.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) id LAA24689; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:53:37 +0200 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:53:37 +0200 Message-Id: <199510020953.LAA24689@lk-hp-4.hut.fi> From: Kai Vorma To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: Reply-To: Kai.Vorma@hut.fi Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Whoa, momma! Check out the size of that PERL mirror job! :-) Perl uses by default its own malloc which happens to be the notorious BSD-malloc.. You could recompile perl using dlmalloc or phk-malloc and see what happens. ..vode From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 03:04:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA00527 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:04:00 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA00480 ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:03:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA03848; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:59:50 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199510020759.MAA03848@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED To: sos@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:59:49 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: terry@lambert.org, ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509290726.AAA29827@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@freebsd.org" at Sep 29, 95 00:26:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1082 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply to Terry Lambert who wrote: > [much deleted] > > > A full SCO console emulation will include 10m, 11m, and 12m for character > > set selection as well. > > Hmm, do you have a "machine readable" version of the latest SCO > console specs ? Mine went away with our last 3.2.2 system > here at work :( > > If I can get my hands on the docs for the SCO console, I'll change > syscons accordingly (We do claim SCO compat right)... > > Also is there a specification of the Linux console (bisides > reading the code) I'd like to know, It might come in usefull > for my next little project.. I can send you the result of 'man HW screen' which is the description of SCO console. BTW 5 years ago I have implemented the SCO console sequences interpreter. It may be a bit ughly and contain minor bugs but it implements most of SCO Unix and Xenix sequences (yes, they are completely different in SCO Unix and Xenix). So may be it can be useful for you. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 03:19:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA01866 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:19:26 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA01853 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:19:20 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA08821; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:17:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA04472; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:19:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199510021019.DAA04472@corbin.Root.COM> To: Bruce Evans cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Sep 95 21:04:14 +1000." <199509301104.VAA31420@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 03:19:08 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >and a few minutes with `nm -n /kernel | less' showed the following > >5) 32K statically allocated normally-unused nfs log buffer `nfsdrt'. >6) 5.5K statically allocated normally-unused nfs log buffer `nfsrtt'. I'm not able to confirm this; the size of the arrays as near as I can tell is much smaller than this - less than 1K each total. >7) 48K statically allocated normally-unused matcd table `matcd_data' > (enough for 16 drives!). Is this in -current or -stable? I just looked at the result of compiling the matcd driver, and I can't confirm your results: [corbin:CORBINX] size matcd.o text data bss dec hex 10704 1328 6916 18948 4a04 Also, since the table you mentioned is uninitialized data, it should appear in the .bss in any case...this isn't a problem - we're only interested in the actual size of the binary. I must be missing something. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 03:49:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA04730 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:49:15 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA04712 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:49:10 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA04287 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:49:05 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510021049.DAA04287@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Well look what I found?! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:49:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 366 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I was perusing through a forgotten room near my office and found..... the ENTIRE Xopen spec (about 3 feet of shelf) it claims to be POSIX-2 complient to the level of P1003.2/draft 12 so if anyone has questions about these things.. keep this in mind.. I'll also be checking everything I do against it from now on.. till now I've been working in the dark :) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 04:10:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA07156 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:10:59 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA07142 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:10:50 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA23721; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:09:12 +1000 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:09:12 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510021109.VAA23721@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>and a few minutes with `nm -n /kernel | less' showed the following >> >>5) 32K statically allocated normally-unused nfs log buffer `nfsdrt'. >>6) 5.5K statically allocated normally-unused nfs log buffer `nfsrtt'. > I'm not able to confirm this; the size of the arrays as near as I can tell >is much smaller than this - less than 1K each total. >>7) 48K statically allocated normally-unused matcd table `matcd_data' >> (enough for 16 drives!). Oops. `nfsdrt' is only 3K and `matcd_data' is only 6K. > Is this in -current or -stable? I just looked at the result of compiling >the matcd driver, and I can't confirm your results: Oops again. It is for a -current GENERIC. >[corbin:CORBINX] size matcd.o >text data bss dec hex >10704 1328 6916 18948 4a04 This only shows the static part of the bss. Global common data is not shown because it doesn't belong to any single object file. There should be very little global common data, but I don't trust drivers not to have it. > Also, since the table you mentioned is uninitialized data, it should appear >in the .bss in any case...this isn't a problem - we're only interested in the >actual size of the binary. Surely there is more of a problem fitting everything at runtime than just loading it? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 04:14:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA07585 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:14:30 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA07569 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:14:26 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA27423; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:12:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id EAA04556; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:14:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199510021114.EAA04556@corbin.Root.COM> To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Oct 95 21:09:12 +1000." <199510021109.VAA23721@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 04:14:08 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>in the .bss in any case...this isn't a problem - we're only interested in the >>actual size of the binary. > >Surely there is more of a problem fitting everything at runtime than just >loading it? Nope, as far as I know the only problem is sufficient space to decompress the kernel binary and MFS filesystem. After this has occurred, there is "plenty" of room. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 04:23:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA09043 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:23:34 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA09034 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:23:32 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA04359; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:22:50 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510021122.EAA04359@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199510021109.VAA23721@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Oct 2, 95 09:09:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 763 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Surely there is more of a problem fitting everything at runtime than just > loading it? The limiting factor is either fitting the compressed file between 3MB and the end of RAM, or fitting the output of the decompression between 1MB and 3MB.. I've seen both fail at various times.. one answer might be to put the decompression routines and entrypoints at the END of the file :) that way you could over-write the beginning as you decompressed (yukko) You could relocate the decomp routines to < 640K and run them down there and let the decompressed output overwrite the start of the compressed version (and hope it never catches up with the read pointer..) I think the problem at the moment is htat the compressed binary runs past 4MB. > > Bruce > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 04:58:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA12731 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:58:25 -0700 Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA12722 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 04:58:22 -0700 Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA10307; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:57:46 -0400 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:57 EDT Received: from lakes (lakes [192.96.3.39]) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA08816; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:48:33 -0400 Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA15735; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:59:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:59:19 -0400 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199510021159.HAA15735@lakes> To: time.cdrom.com!jkh@dg-rtp.dg.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK! Time out on 4MB issue please! Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1423 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Sorry to have aroused so much ire, folks! But try and see this a > little bit from my perspective, if you will. I have seen this demon > pop up in *every* release since 2.0, to be fought grudgingly back each > time. The day will come when we run entirely out of options if we > keep going on this way, but perhaps I can forestall that for just a > little while longer with 2.1. I will try to implement a few of the > suggestions that folks have sent me over the last few days for > shrinking the kernel back below 1MB for 2.1. This should bring the > 4MB folks back. > > I will not be anywhere near as sympathetic about this come 2.2 time, > so I hope that the "small memory" advocates can get the all-singing, > all-dancing dynamic load/unload device driver mechanism put together > by then! :-) > > Jordan > Just so I can understand this... The 4meg limit is hit because use MFS to do the install - or because the kernel, after being unzipped, is too large to fit. If we were to use a different method than MFS, could we then operate? Personally, although the current install is rather slick - I didn't mind the previous method(s). Now that I'm back from my hiatus, I wouldn't mind getting together with the "small memory" advocates and investigating this. I can set up an ancient 386 with a small WD drive and 4 megs of memory (and a 1.2 floppy :-) ) to run experiments. - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 05:16:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA13847 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:16:36 -0700 Received: from Relay1.Austria.EU.net (relay1.Austria.EU.net [192.92.138.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA13828 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:16:32 -0700 From: marino.ladavac@aut.alcatel.at Received: from aut.alcatel.at (dnisun.aut.alcatel.at) by Relay1.Austria.EU.net with SMTP id AA26594 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:16:08 +0100 Received: from atuhc16 by aut.alcatel.at (4.1/SMI-4.1/AAA-1.29/main) id AA13898; Mon, 2 Oct 95 13:12:21 +0100 Message-Id: <9510021212.AA13898@atuhc16.aut.alcatel.at> Received: by atuhc16 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA16267; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:16:55 +0100 Subject: Re: Low end PS laser, or inkjet/bubblejet To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) (Sean Kelly) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 13:16:54 MET Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9510011427.AA26121@emu.fsl.noaa.gov>; from "Sean Kelly" at Oct 1, 95 8:27 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > So the card must recognize two different printer names in order to do > two different kinds of processing ... hmmmm. Thanks for posting that! No. The difference is really that one uses text protocol (rp=text), and the other raw protocol (rp=raw). That's the way I understand the rp print capability. In any case, the printer (card) does never see the name (which is local to the machine running lpr/lpd) /Alby (hope I didn't spew too much BS in my reply :) > -- > Sean Kelly > NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA > If you're a young Mafia gangster out on your first date, I bet it's > real embarrassing if someone tries to kill you. -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 05:20:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA14239 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:20:00 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA14200 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:19:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA23487 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:25:34 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199510021225.NAA23487@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Unreliable internet and RTT estimation code in BSD To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:25:34 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2622 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This is a followup to my previous posting on high packet losses (10..60% and more) which I am experiencing between Europe and the US. My first thought was that such a large loss rate should almost completely defeat the algorithms used by TCP to determine the RTT, to the point that ftp-ing a file larger than 100K takes a huge amount of time if it succeeds at all. To see what was going on, I have modified netstat on my FreeBSD 1.1 system to show the values of rtt/srtt/ rttvar from the tcp protocol control block (a simple one-line addition to inet.c in the BSD netstat sources: in protopr() I added the line printf("rtt/srtt/rttvar %7d/%7d/%7d ", tcpcb.t_rtt, tcpcb.t_srtt, tcpcb.t_rttvar); I then started an ftp connection from overseas with hash marks on, and, while the transfer proceeds (*very* slowly), netstat shows the following numbers (these are not regular samples; I ran netstat every few seconds by hand): rtt srtt rttvar comment ------------------------ 3 8 2 beginning of the connection. some 50KB go 5 8 2 through. 8 8 2 11 8 2 17 8 2 no data are flowing. 22 8 2 2 0 3 perhaps a packet or two have been sent. 17 0 3 0 0 3 5 0 3 86 0 3 0 0 3 ... 0 0 5 the transfer seems to have blocked; but pinging the remote host still gives about 50% success. I get these numbers for a couple of minutes. ... here I was typing this message 25 15 3 and after, this is what i get. ... 0 15 3 again, no data are flowing. 0 0 6 and to my surprise, srtt goes back to 0! ... 0 23 6 and then up to 23... ... 0 0 24 and then back to 0 again! There are two things which surprise me: 1) srtt goes to 0 so quickly, and stays there for some time, despite the fact that the actual rtt is large; 2) rtt stays at 0 while no data are exchanged (and there should be pending data/acks somewhere). I am not very familiar with the way RTT is estimated and it implementation in the BSD code (I guess I'll have to study it); however, the above numbers look wrong to me. So I was wondering about the existence of studies on the performance of the RTT estimation code in the BSD implementation of TCP, especially in presence of large packet losses. Any pointers and comments are mostly appreciated. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 05:26:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA14848 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:26:12 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA14828 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:26:03 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA26089; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:24:11 +1000 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:24:11 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510021224.WAA26089@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Surely there is more of a problem fitting everything at runtime than just >> loading it? >The limiting factor is either fitting the compressed file between >3MB and the end of RAM, or fitting the output of the decompression >between 1MB and 3MB.. I've seen both fail at various times.. The packing problem could be reduced by keeping the mfsroot in a separate file or on a separate floppy, but these methods are currently too hard, and if we go to a separate floppy we might as well forget about compression (at least while the kernel and the mfs still fit on a 1200K floppy). >You could relocate the decomp routines to < 640K and run them down there >and let the decompressed output overwrite the start of the compressed version >(and hope it never catches up with the read pointer..) >I think the problem at the moment is htat the compressed binary runs >past 4MB. Relocation of code would be messy. Relocation of data is easy. If the last problem is the only one, solve it by copying the last few hundred K of the compressed binary to low memory while you're decompressing the first few hundred K, then put it back. This could be combined with overwriting to increase the chance that the write pointer never catches up. The current memory map at decompress_kernel() time seems to be: 0: reserved 4K: free 64K: boot program (need to preserve a little of its data) 128K: free 320K: malloc heap nnnK: end of low RAM; start of memory abused by malloc if nnn < 640 640K: bus memory There is a block of 192K and a block of 316K or more could be arranged. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 05:27:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA15048 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:27:37 -0700 Received: from gdwest.gd.com ([134.120.3.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA15042 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:27:34 -0700 Received: by gdwest.gd.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01206; Mon, 2 Oct 95 05:28:45 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 05:28:45 PDT From: eyfarris@gdwest.gd.com (Eblan Y Farris) Message-Id: <9510021228.AA01206@gdwest.gd.com> To: jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You might want to check out Micron Electronics. Their SMP-capable > motherboards can hold up to 512MB of DRAM!!! http://www.mei.micron.com/ > Too bad FreeBSD doesn't support SMP just yet, or it would be even better! > Imagine, a dual-Pentium ftp.cdrom.com with 512MB of RAM! >These are Neptune chipset boards. Forget about using a reasonable >combination of bus mastering SCSI controller and ethernet interface >cards! :-( 2 is the limit. > > Jordan A number of new chipset/motherboards are on the way - the TritonII which will support Dual-133's is just on the verge of coming out. Dual-Pentiums today with Neptune are not so desirable. efarris@surfusa.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 05:29:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA15278 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:29:33 -0700 Received: from gdwest.gd.com ([134.120.3.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA15267 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:29:31 -0700 Received: by gdwest.gd.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01240; Mon, 2 Oct 95 05:30:48 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 05:30:48 PDT From: eyfarris@gdwest.gd.com (Eblan Y Farris) Message-Id: <9510021230.AA01240@gdwest.gd.com> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, nc@ai.net Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The irony is that if we could only fit more than 128MB of memory into > > > this beast we could do even more.. I wonder if anyone from Intel is > > > listening? Guys! We need a decent motherboard with room for more > > > memory, please! please! :-) > > What happened to the old motherboard with 192MB of RAM? > > -Jerry. > >Neptune chipset. We needed 3 SCSI controllers and fast ethernet, and >only the Tritons will do that so far. > > Jordan Just wait for the TritonII this new chipset will support >128M, but by the time it is out maybe the PentiumPro MBs may be even more desirable. efarris@surfusa.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 05:32:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA15429 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:32:18 -0700 Received: from gdwest.gd.com ([134.120.3.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA15421 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 05:32:15 -0700 Received: by gdwest.gd.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01249; Mon, 2 Oct 95 05:33:32 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 05:33:32 PDT From: eyfarris@gdwest.gd.com (Eblan Y Farris) Message-Id: <9510021233.AA01249@gdwest.gd.com> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com, nc@ai.net Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Uh, excuse me, but I have in front of me a TYAN board with dual 135Mhz > Pentia and support and sockets for 512MB of RAM. > > EISA/PCI bus architecture. Very, very slick design. > >Which chipset? > > Jordan The Tyan board has the Neptune chipset, not so desirable. efarris@surfusa.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 06:03:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA17765 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 06:03:47 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA17758 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 06:03:44 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA21938; Mon, 2 Oct 95 13:03:37 GMT Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA18428; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:03:35 -0600 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:03:35 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9510021303.AA18428@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: marino.ladavac@aut.alcatel.at Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9510021212.AA13898@atuhc16.aut.alcatel.at> (marino.ladavac@aut.alcatel.at) Subject: Re: Low end PS laser, or inkjet/bubblejet Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Alby" == marino ladavac writes: >> So the card must recognize two different printer names in order >> to do two different kinds of processing ... hmmmm. Thanks for >> posting that! Alby> No. The difference is really that one uses text protocol Alby> (rp=text), and the other raw protocol (rp=raw). That's the Alby> way I understand the rp print capability. In LPD, there is no ``text protocol'' or ``raw protocol.'' >From printcap(5): rp str ``lp'' remote printer name argument The card is enforcing a particular interpretation of incoming jobs by using a particular printer name on its end. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA I bought my brother some gift-wrap for Christmas. I took it to the Gift Wrap Department and told them to wrap it, but in a different print so he would know when to stop unwrapping. -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 06:21:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA19245 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 06:21:40 -0700 Received: from ns.ge.com (ns.ge.com [192.35.39.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA19229 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 06:21:32 -0700 Received: from crissy.gemis.ge.com ([3.29.7.57]) by ns.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA04609; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:21:25 -0400 Received: from salem.ge.com (carsdb.salem.ge.com [3.29.7.15]) by crissy.gemis.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA18724; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:14:33 -0400 Received: from combs.salem.ge.com by salem.ge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01052; Mon, 2 Oct 95 09:21:21 EDT Received: (from steve@localhost) by combs.salem.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id JAA05771; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:21:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:21:21 -0400 From: "Stephen F. Combs" Message-Id: <199510021321.JAA05771@combs.salem.ge.com> To: marino.ladavac@aut.alcatel.at, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: Low end PS laser, or inkjet/bubblejet Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The HP Laserjet4 MIO is setup to talk to a PC/Novell Network/etc.... which ends each line in a text file with a . Unix ends a text file line with ONLY an . The 'text' and 'raw' printer types are there to allow the printer to get around this. Any file sent to the 'text' printer will have to translation performed. Text sent to the 'raw' printer will NOT have this translation performed! =============================================================================== Stephen F. Combs Internet: CombsSF@Salem.GE.COM GE Industrial Sales & Services Voice: 540.387.8828 Network Services Home: CombsSF-Home@Salem.GE.COM 1501 Roanoke Blvd Home Voice: 540.389.9524 Salem, VA 24153 (not reliable after 9:30pm, 'cuz 'tis my link) =============================================================================== > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Mon Oct 2 09:18:10 1995 > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:03:35 -0600 > From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) > To: marino.ladavac@aut.alcatel.at > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > In-Reply-To: <9510021212.AA13898@atuhc16.aut.alcatel.at> (marino.ladavac@aut.alcatel.at) > Subject: Re: Low end PS laser, or inkjet/bubblejet > Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org > Content-Length: 967 > > >>>>> "Alby" == marino ladavac writes: > > >> So the card must recognize two different printer names in order > >> to do two different kinds of processing ... hmmmm. Thanks for > >> posting that! > > Alby> No. The difference is really that one uses text protocol > Alby> (rp=text), and the other raw protocol (rp=raw). That's the > Alby> way I understand the rp print capability. > > In LPD, there is no ``text protocol'' or ``raw protocol.'' > >From printcap(5): > > rp str ``lp'' remote printer name argument > > The card is enforcing a particular interpretation of incoming jobs by > using a particular printer name on its end. > > -- > Sean Kelly > NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA > > I bought my brother some gift-wrap for Christmas. I took it to the > Gift Wrap Department and told them to wrap it, but in a different > print so he would know when to stop unwrapping. -- Steven Wright > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 06:34:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA20551 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 06:34:15 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA20540 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 06:34:10 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA11536; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:27:46 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510021357.XAA11536@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: spl'ing to a specific interrupt level To: pete@puffin.pelican.com (Pete Carah) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:27:46 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Pete Carah" at Oct 1, 95 02:24:00 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1604 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Pete Carah stands accused of saying: > IEEE 488 and its various serial equivalents are examples of things > that would fall into their own class (and a system could easily have > more than one of them so the class would have to be a real class). > There are several 422 industrial busses that use regular tty boards > but don't need protection from regular tty processing since they > are always used in raw mode. Maybe an raw-mode-only driver and > another class could be useful for this case? This is an issue close to my heart just now, as I look to writing 'real' device drivers for various hardware we use. One of these is a 485/232 interface that uses faked 9-bit mode (stuck parity) and DTR drive/listen control. Essentially, it wants to be based on a very cut-down sio driver, with no tty processing and a small set of ioctl's. IIRC, From my following of this thread, I presume that staying with spltty() is the Right Thing to do from the point of view of making something work. I'm also curious to know if anyone has done anything with the Advantech PCL-732, or any similar digital I/O card. It's a sort-of bio device, but the things you do to/with it don't really fit with the current scheme. > -- Pete -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 07:06:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA24004 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:06:25 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA23992 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:06:19 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA10228; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:09:58 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:09:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199510021409.KAA10228@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: OK! Time out on 4MB issue please! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Sorry to have aroused so much ire, folks! But try and see this a >little bit from my perspective, if you will. I have seen this demon >pop up in *every* release since 2.0, to be fought grudgingly back each >time. The day will come when we run entirely out of options if we >keep going on this way, but perhaps I can forestall that for just a >little while longer with 2.1. I will try to implement a few of the >suggestions that folks have sent me over the last few days for >shrinking the kernel back below 1MB for 2.1. This should bring the >4MB folks back. > >I will not be anywhere near as sympathetic about this come 2.2 time, >so I hope that the "small memory" advocates can get the all-singing, >all-dancing dynamic load/unload device driver mechanism put together >by then! :-) > Just give us a little more than a few days warning and maybe someone else will address the issue. Last minute bombshells generate tremendous passion. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 07:38:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA27085 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:38:37 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA27067 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:38:31 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA11626; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:32:18 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510021502.AAA11626@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:32:17 +0930 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com In-Reply-To: <199510021114.EAA04556@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Oct 2, 95 04:14:08 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1346 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman stands accused of saying: > > >>in the .bss in any case...this isn't a problem - we're only interested in the > >>actual size of the binary. > > > >Surely there is more of a problem fitting everything at runtime than just > >loading it? > > Nope, as far as I know the only problem is sufficient space to decompress > the kernel binary and MFS filesystem. After this has occurred, there is > "plenty" of room. If this is indeed the case, then someone should be looking at the NextByte function in /usr/src/sys/i386/boot/kzipboot/unzip.c, and making a primitive 2-stage bootloader that reads from disk in this function, rather than depending on the entire compressed kernel to be in memory. As far as I can see, at this point in the proceedings, the BIOS is still usably close, and bits for reading files can be stolen from the biosboot code. Yes, I'd love to do it, but my test machine is now my SO's, so I have nothing to test on. 8( > -DG -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 07:46:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA28135 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:46:18 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA28119 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:46:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA14101 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:49:30 -0400 Message-Id: <199510021449.KAA14101@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 10:49:30 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a suggestion that you (i.e. hackers) probably won't like, but why not uncompress the kernel *from* the boot media. The way this would work would be kinda like how VMS boots. There would be a tertiary bootstrap whose job it would be to read and uncompress the kernel into the proper place in memory and start it running. I'm not real current in how FreeBSD boots, but I guess that the primary bootstrap (on the boot sector, or on the network card, or whatever) loads the secondary bootstrap which does some diagnostics, hardware initialization, memory sizing, etc.etc.etc. and, currently, loads and runs the kernel. Instead the secondary bootstap would load the tertiary bootstrap (or perhaps one of many tertiary bootstraps) pass it the necessary parameters, and the tertiary bootstrap would take it from there. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 08:43:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA02428 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:43:04 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA02247 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:40:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA23794; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:44:33 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199510021544.QAA23794@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:44:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510021449.KAA14101@spooky.rwwa.com> from "Robert Withrow" at Oct 2, 95 10:49:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 995 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a suggestion that you (i.e. hackers) probably won't like, > but why not uncompress the kernel *from* the boot media. The > way this would work would be kinda like how VMS boots. There > would be a tertiary bootstrap whose job it would be to read > and uncompress the kernel into the proper place in memory and > start it running. > Nice idea. The only objection, the savings are a fraction of the size of a compressed kernel (you need room for the decompression code, plus a buffer for data being decompressed). If you kernel is in the 4..8MB range then it really makes sense... :) Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 09:21:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA07379 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:21:18 -0700 Received: from victor.innovus.com (victor.innovus.com [192.75.186.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA07352 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:21:12 -0700 Received: (from martin@localhost) by victor.innovus.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA18912; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:35:18 -0400 From: Martin Renters Message-Id: <199510021635.MAA18912@victor.innovus.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com In-Reply-To: <199510021502.AAA11626@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Oct 3, 95 00:32:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 475 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >Surely there is more of a problem fitting everything at runtime than just > > >loading it? > > > > Nope, as far as I know the only problem is sufficient space to decompress > > the kernel binary and MFS filesystem. After this has occurred, there is > > "plenty" of room. How about uncompressing backwards and overwriting the compressed image during the uncompression? (ie: rather than starting at 1Mb and working up, start at 1M+kernel size and work down) Martin From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 10:10:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA10575 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:10:25 -0700 Received: from tiny.mcs.usu.edu (tiny.mcs.usu.edu [129.123.15.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10570 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:10:23 -0700 Received: (from kurto@localhost) by tiny.mcs.usu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA00331 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:21:36 -0600 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:21:36 -0600 From: Kurt Olsen Message-Id: <199510021721.LAA00331@tiny.mcs.usu.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If the problem is that the compressed kernel and the uncompressed kernel don't fit in memory, then why not keep the compressed kernel image on disk and load it in pieces as it becomes necessary for decompression. I could imagine that a 64K buffer would be sufficient (if a little slow.) Kurt Olsen kurto@cc.usu.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 10:12:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA10713 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:12:00 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10700 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:11:57 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA26677; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:11:43 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:11:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: dennis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, dennis wrote: > > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great > business decision. It's the "idiots" and the "one-time user" that are more likely to have deficient hardware than those who are already accustomed to building FreeBSD boxes. Those in the latter group can still go for the full 8Mb installation kernel. Who says we have to have one or the other? -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 10:24:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA11282 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:24:47 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11271 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:24:44 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA10736; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:27:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:27:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199510021727.NAA10736@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Brian Tao From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk B. Tao writes... >On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, dennis wrote: >> >> Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to >> support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on >> FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great >> business decision. > > It's the "idiots" and the "one-time user" that are more likely to >have deficient hardware than those who are already accustomed to >building FreeBSD boxes. Those in the latter group can still go for >the full 8Mb installation kernel. Who says we have to have one or the >other? Thats the point. Smaller is better for everyone. You don't want to end up like wordperfect, whose marketing dept assumed that everyone was using Pentiums with lots of memory, because their product was unusable on everything else. Is it OK to write bad code because 'processors are fast" and "memory is cheap"? We develop and test our software on the slowest, least loaded machines available, and if it doesn't perform adaquately it doesn't make it out the door, even if a large portion of the market has pentiums. If you abandon the 4MB limit now, pretty soon you'll be squeezing it into 8. Sound like a Microsoft story? db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 10:49:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA12204 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:49:30 -0700 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA12199 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:49:24 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by mail1.digital.com; (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA16959; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:37:07 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0szohC-0005OqC; Mon, 2 Oct 95 18:30 MEZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from Julian Elischer of Mon, 02 Oct 95 04:22:49 MST. Reply-To: gj@pcs.dec.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 17:30:29 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer wrote: >> >> >> Surely there is more of a problem fitting everything at runtime than just >> loading it? > The limiting factor is either fitting the compressed file between > 3MB and the end of RAM, or fitting the output of the decompression > between 1MB and 3MB.. I've seen both fail at various times.. > > one answer might be to put the decompression routines and entrypoints > at the END of the file :) > that way you could over-write the beginning as you decompressed (yukko) this idea isn't bad, since the problem seems to be that the decompressing code can be over-written if the kernel is loaded below 3 MB. The 3MB load point was, AFAIK, a seat-of-the-pants decision. At least, it was for me when I was working on the gzip stuff earlier this year and phk seems to have kept it. If we put the code at the end then we might be able to load the compressed kernel at 2 or 2-1/2 MB instead of at 3 MB. By how much is the kernel too big ? I could look into this in my copious spare time :) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 10:59:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA12643 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:59:17 -0700 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA12637 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:59:12 -0700 Received: from server.cs.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa21353; 2 Oct 95 13:59 EDT Received: from agate.cs.Virginia.EDU by uvacs.cs.virginia.edu (4.1/5.1.UVA) id AA16727; Mon, 2 Oct 95 13:59:10 EDT Posted-Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by agate.cs.Virginia.EDU (4.1/SMI-2.0) id AA22334; Mon, 2 Oct 95 13:59:10 EDT Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:59:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: patch for tk4.0 ports Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks, Here's a small patch which fixes a problem which caused tk4.0 to fail to compile. Essentially, it is a dependency mismatch/inconsistency. cheers, Adrian adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| Support your local programmer, http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~atf3r/ --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! Member: The League for -->>| info at ftp.uu.net:/doc/lpf, print Programming Freedom ->| "join.ps.Z" for an application *** post-configure.orig Mon Oct 2 09:50:41 1995 --- post-configure Mon Oct 2 13:25:24 1995 *************** *** 26,32 **** # there....otherwise, it's probably just built and ldconfig hasn't # been run yet so we have to go look for it. ! tmp=`ldconfig -r | grep -e '-ltcl\.7\.' | awk '{print $3}'` tcl_lib_dir="" # Should we do something like this to see where the user might have --- 26,32 ---- # there....otherwise, it's probably just built and ldconfig hasn't # been run yet so we have to go look for it. ! tmp=`ldconfig -r | grep -e '-ltcl74' | awk '{print $3}'` tcl_lib_dir="" # Should we do something like this to see where the user might have From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 11:00:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA12705 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:00:46 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA12700 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:00:44 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA06086; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:58:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199510021758.KAA06086@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: Brian Tao , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Oct 1995 13:27:11 EDT." <199510021727.NAA10736@etinc.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 10:58:28 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Thats the point. Smaller is better for everyone. You don't want to end up >like wordperfect, whose marketing dept assumed that everyone was using >Pentiums with lots of memory, because their product was unusable on >everything else. Is it OK to write bad code because 'processors are fast" >and "memory is cheap"? We develop and test our software on the slowest, >least loaded machines available, and if it doesn't perform adaquately it >doesn't make it out the door, even if a large portion of the market has >pentiums. If you abandon the 4MB limit now, pretty soon you'll be squeezing >it into 8. Sound like a Microsoft story? > >db The inability to boot in 4MB has nothing to do with bad code. The comparison isn't even close to being valid. As I said before, there are many people who are interested in making the 4MB limit go away entirerly in the next release. We need aditionalfunctionality that we don't have yet. Most of your comments take on this attitude like it was some conscious decision to go above 4MB and that all that the project does is in some way designed to back stab commercial interests. I don't think there could be anything further from the truth. As to the 4MB issue, we only realized the problem last last week, and, like any volunteer project, the people who devote their spare time to it can only do so much. I'm sure that Jordan would be happy to accept your "coded" solution to this problem. :) >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > >Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For >Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame >Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 11:24:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA13539 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:24:26 -0700 Received: from frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (ZGIK-1-ELIS-14.4K.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA13489 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:23:48 -0700 Received: from zgik.UUCP by frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua with UUCP id UAA11342; (8.6.11/vak/1.8e) Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:13:22 +0200 Received: by relay1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (uumail v1.5/ache) id AA28789; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:12:14 +0200 Received: from bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.29]) by bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA28785 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:12:12 +0200 Received: by bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA18684 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:07:05 +0200 From: Sergey Shkonda Message-Id: <199510021807.AA18684@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: Some patches to syscons To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:07:02 +0200 (UKR) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4529 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk First change is a bug fix in syscons.c: sequence 'ESC [ n X' now work Second change append SCO console like font changing: ESC [ 10 m - selects the primary font ESC [ 12 m - selects seconds alternate font; toggles high bit of extended ASCII code before displaying as ROM sharacters ESC [ m ESC [ 0 m + selects the primary font Serg | Relcom: (Sergey Shkonda) | serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua *** syscons.c Mon Oct 2 19:30:53 1995 --- syscons.c Mon Oct 2 19:32:52 1995 *************** *** 1590,1597 **** if (n > scp->xsize - scp->xpos) n = scp->xsize - scp->xpos; fillw(scp->term.cur_attr | scr_map[0x20], ! scp->scr_buf + scp->xpos + ! ((scp->xsize*scp->ypos) * sizeof(u_short)), n); mark_for_update(scp, scp->cursor_pos - scp->scr_buf); mark_for_update(scp, scp->cursor_pos - scp->scr_buf + n); break; --- 1590,1596 ---- if (n > scp->xsize - scp->xpos) n = scp->xsize - scp->xpos; fillw(scp->term.cur_attr | scr_map[0x20], ! scp->cursor_pos, n); mark_for_update(scp, scp->cursor_pos - scp->scr_buf); mark_for_update(scp, scp->cursor_pos - scp->scr_buf + n); break; *************** *** 1630,1641 **** --- 1629,1642 ---- case 'm': /* change attribute */ if (scp->term.num_param == 0) { scp->term.cur_attr = scp->term.std_attr; + scp->term.SCOfont = 0; break; } for (i = 0; i < scp->term.num_param; i++) { switch (n = scp->term.param[i]) { case 0: /* back to normal */ scp->term.cur_attr = scp->term.std_attr; + scp->term.SCOfont = 0; break; case 1: /* highlight (bold) */ scp->term.cur_attr &= 0xFF00; *************** *** 1652,1657 **** --- 1653,1664 ---- case 7: /* reverse video */ scp->term.cur_attr = scp->term.rev_attr; break; + case 10: + scp->term.SCOfont = 0; + break; + case 12: + scp->term.SCOfont = 0x80; + break; case 30: case 31: /* set fg color */ case 32: case 33: case 34: case 35: case 36: case 37: *************** *** 1678,1683 **** --- 1685,1691 ---- scp->term.cur_attr = scp->term.std_attr = current_default->std_attr; scp->term.rev_attr = current_default->rev_attr; + scp->term.SCOfont = 0; break; case 1: /* set ansi background */ scp->term.cur_attr = scp->term.std_attr = *************** *** 1862,1870 **** else if (PRINTABLE(*ptr)) { /* Print only printables */ int cnt = len <= (scp->xsize-scp->xpos) ? len : (scp->xsize-scp->xpos); u_short cur_attr = scp->term.cur_attr; u_short *cursor_pos = scp->cursor_pos; do { ! *cursor_pos++ = (scr_map[*ptr++] | cur_attr); cnt--; } while (cnt && PRINTABLE(*ptr)); len -= (cursor_pos - scp->cursor_pos); --- 1870,1879 ---- else if (PRINTABLE(*ptr)) { /* Print only printables */ int cnt = len <= (scp->xsize-scp->xpos) ? len : (scp->xsize-scp->xpos); u_short cur_attr = scp->term.cur_attr; + u_char SCOfont = scp->term.SCOfont; u_short *cursor_pos = scp->cursor_pos; do { ! *cursor_pos++ = ( (scr_map[*ptr++] ^ SCOfont) | cur_attr ); cnt--; } while (cnt && PRINTABLE(*ptr)); len -= (cursor_pos - scp->cursor_pos); *************** *** 2028,2033 **** --- 2037,2043 ---- kernel_console.std_attr = kernel_default.std_attr; kernel_console.rev_attr = kernel_default.rev_attr; kernel_console.cur_attr = kernel_default.std_attr; + kernel_console.SCOfont = 0; /* initialize mapscrn array to a one to one map */ for (i=0; iterm.std_attr = current_default->std_attr; scp->term.rev_attr = current_default->rev_attr; scp->term.cur_attr = scp->term.std_attr; + scp->term.SCOfont = 0; scp->border = BG_BLACK; scp->cursor_start = *(char *)pa_to_va(0x461); scp->cursor_end = *(char *)pa_to_va(0x460); *** syscons.h Mon Oct 2 19:30:54 1995 --- syscons.h Mon Oct 2 19:32:52 1995 *************** *** 122,127 **** --- 122,130 ---- int cur_attr; /* current attributes */ int std_attr; /* normal attributes */ int rev_attr; /* reverse attributes */ + u_char SCOfont; /* SCO-like font changing + as/ae (smacs/rmacs), + with CSI12m/CSI10m */ } term_stat; typedef struct scr_stat { From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 11:30:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA13769 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:30:26 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA13760 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:30:16 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA22091; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:23:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510021823.LAA22091@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: LKM registration.. To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:23:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510020101.SAA03313@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 1, 95 06:01:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1273 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Looking at teh LKM code, it apears to me that > a device driver can either be block or char, but not both? > am I misreading something? Yes. This is a deficiency. Whether it's a deficiency in the model that allows you to have a block device without a corresponding character device (ie: BSD itself) or a deficiency in the available registration mechanism (LKM) or just a complication (you can register a character device LKM that depends on a block device LKM, or vice versa) is very arguable. I lean toward it being an issue of balance, ie: a problem in not requiring (potentially non-functional) character and block device nodes on parity with each other. If you lean towards "deficiency", well, the generic LKM can be used to implement registration as multiple archetypes, including device driver and system call at the same time. Two device drivers is a piece of cake compared to something like that (what I would call a gross functionality extension module -- you might use one for an ABI). If you lean towards complication, you can break your devices into multiple dependent modules and load them in dependency order. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 11:31:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA13861 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:31:02 -0700 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA13856 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:30:59 -0700 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD-4.4) id EAA23052 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 04:30:54 +1000 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199510021830.EAA23052@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 04:30:49 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1194 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com writes: > this idea isn't bad, since the problem seems to be that the decompressing > code can be over-written if the kernel is loaded below 3 MB. The 3MB load > point was, AFAIK, a seat-of-the-pants decision. At least, it was for me > when I was working on the gzip stuff earlier this year and phk seems to > have kept it. > If we put the code at the end then we might be able to load the compressed > kernel at 2 or 2-1/2 MB instead of at 3 MB. By how much is the kernel too > big ? Whilst it's not directly relevant to this discussion .. a trick that Sunsoft (with Interactive Unix) used was to relocate the kernel into physical memory above that magic 16 meg boundary. This means that those machines already crippled with ISA SCSI controllers do slightly less bounce-buffer trickery as the kernel remains memory resident and more of the stuff that's useful to exchange with disk below the 16 meg limit is available. With a 2+ megabyte bloated System V kernel, this is quite beneficial .. How much of this approach could be applied to FreeBSD, I don't know, but it might be worth keeping in mind when redesigning the kernel load sequence, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 11:34:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA14040 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:34:11 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14031 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:34:08 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA22116; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:27:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510021827.LAA22116@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: vgalib for FreeBSD! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:27:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <25331.812609541@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 1, 95 09:52:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 293 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I do not like Ctk and ham! I do not like them, Sam I am! :-) Would you, could you, on your box? Would you, could you, using IP tunneling over socks? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 12:18:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA16292 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:18:39 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA16185 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:17:33 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA24648; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:44:42 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199510021844.TAA24648@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: /bin/sh thinks it's csh To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:44:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: taob@io.org, kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510012016.NAA20297@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 1, 95 01:16:48 pm Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1318 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Terry Lambert (Sun Oct 1 21:16:48 1995): > > > % sh -c 'echo $1' foo bar baz > > > foo > > > % csh -c 'echo $1' foo bar baz > > > foo ... > > 950726 has this beahviour too, which I always thought was correct. > > Why would $1 represent anything other than the first argument in argv? ... > The const char *arg and subsequent ellipses in the execl(), execlp(), and > execle() functions can be thought of as arg0, arg1, ..., argn. Together > ^^^^ > they describe a list of one or more pointers to null-terminated strings > that represent the argument list available to the executed program. The > first argument, by convention, should point to the file name associated ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > with the file being executed. The list of arguments must be terminated ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > by a NULL pointer. So, in "sh -c 'echo $0' foo bar baz": $0 echo $1 foo in "csh -c 'echo $0' foo bar baz": exactly the same. Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 12:28:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA17153 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:28:36 -0700 Received: from elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (elf.kendall.mdcc.edu [147.70.150.122]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17131 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:28:13 -0700 Received: (from freelist@localhost) by elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA21988; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:16:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:16:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Whiteside To: dennis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: <199510012343.TAA08602@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, dennis wrote: > >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: > >> > >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. > > > > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How > >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg > >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution > >ready of installation? > > Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to > support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on > FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great > business decision. Is your response module broke and stuck on "volume: full, mode: rant"?? I just don't understand, Dennis. You get pissed off at the 4 meg limit and rant about how apparently this is akin to setting your wallet on fire. You scream about NFS because this is the best way to load custom systems. Now you've been mortally offended because someone has suggested that the default install kernel be kindest to the people who are unable to choose other options. Other options that you obviously have. If you need to build systems, make a kernel that includes the proper drivers and disseminate it. As Jordan responded to an earlier message, you've got the source too, baby. You've got the ability to make a custom kernel, Joe UnixUserWannabe _doesn't_. And in fact, my understanding was that appealing to the widest possible customer base _is_ a great business decision. Why you think the FreeBSD team should make kernels that appease a single person is beyond me. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 12:35:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA17664 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:35:19 -0700 Received: from elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (elf.kendall.mdcc.edu [147.70.150.122]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17654 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:35:14 -0700 Received: (from freelist@localhost) by elf.kendall.mdcc.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA22013; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:23:09 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:23:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Whiteside To: Robert Withrow cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Kernel book process (was 4m vs. 8m install kernel) In-Reply-To: <199510021449.KAA14101@spooky.rwwa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Robert Withrow wrote: > I'm not real current in how FreeBSD boots, but I guess ... If you want the $5 tour, look on: http://freefall.freebsd.org/How/handbook/handbook225.html#377 Which details the FreeBSD booting process. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 13:06:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19850 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:06:12 -0700 Received: from zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk (zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.5.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA19845 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:06:06 -0700 Received: from heracles.agw.bt.co.uk by zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:05:30 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heracles.agw.bt.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA26445; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:05:37 +0100 Message-Id: <199510022005.VAA26445@heracles.agw.bt.co.uk> X-Authentication-Warning: heracles.agw.bt.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: mirror patch (formerly A moment in the life ...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:30:22 BST." <199509301230.NAA10098@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 21:05:36 +0100 From: David James Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It seems that michael butler said: > > There is a very substantial memory leak in mirror .. the author sent me > > replacement ftp.pl and chat.pl modules (~12 months ago) but I suspect that > > they are still not a part of any release :-( > > Can we get our hands on these ones please ? I know of a few people who > would kill for an even only slighly smaller mirror... I never received a fix from the author, but I did work out a one line patch which gets rid of 99% of the problem. The memory leak is in perl itself, and happens when you use the eval() function. Since mirror does this for every block of data which it reads from an ftp connection, the process gets huge quite quickly. The following one line patch helps a lot: *** /usr/local/mirror/ftp.pl~ Wed Jan 26 14:59:08 1994 --- /usr/local/mirror/ftp.pl Mon Jun 12 15:25:05 1995 *************** *** 496,502 **** return -1; } ! local( $ret ) = eval '&timed_read()'; alarm( 0 ); if( $@ =~ /^timeout/ ){ --- 496,502 ---- return -1; } ! local( $ret ) = eval { &timed_read() }; alarm( 0 ); if( $@ =~ /^timeout/ ){ David email: dwj@agw.bt.co.uk, phone: +44 171 250 6469, fax: +44 171 336 0214 post: pp8.5a, 207 Old Street, London EC1V 9PS, U.K. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 13:09:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19979 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:09:48 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19974 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:09:43 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA22381; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:01:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510022001.NAA22381@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: /bin/sh thinks it's csh To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:01:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, taob@io.org, kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510021844.TAA24648@strider.ibenet.it> from "Piero Serini" at Oct 2, 95 07:44:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 313 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, in "sh -c 'echo $0' foo bar baz": > > $0 echo > $1 foo > > in "csh -c 'echo $0' foo bar baz": > > exactly the same. Except that POSIX is right because it is POSIX. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 13:13:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20148 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:13:06 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20133 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:12:58 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA11200; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:16:08 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:16:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199510022016.QAA11200@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Don Whiteside From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, dennis wrote: > >> >On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, dennis wrote: >> >> >> >> NO!!!!!!!! NFS is the best and fastest way to load semi-custom systems. >> > >> > I agree, but if we have to choose, I'd lose NFS first too. How >> >many first-time users (those who will be baffled the most by the 8-meg >> >requirement) have access to an NFS server with the FreeBSD distribution >> >ready of installation? >> >> Great Idea! Lets lose the established users who are pushing for the O/S to >> support the idiots. Let's eliminate those that are building systems based on >> FreeBSD in hopes of luring the occasional one-time user. This is a great >> business decision. > >Is your response module broke and stuck on "volume: full, mode: rant"?? > >I just don't understand, Dennis. You get pissed off at the 4 meg limit >and rant about how apparently this is akin to setting your wallet on >fire. You scream about NFS because this is the best way to load custom >systems. Now you've been mortally offended because someone has suggested >that the default install kernel be kindest to the people who are unable >to choose other options. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 13:13:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20157 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:13:07 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20143 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:13:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA27813; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:12:35 -0700 To: Bruce Evans cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Oct 1995 22:24:11 +1000." <199510021224.WAA26089@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 13:12:35 -0700 Message-ID: <27811.812664755@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The packing problem could be reduced by keeping the mfsroot in a separate > file or on a separate floppy, but these methods are currently too hard, > and if we go to a separate floppy we might as well forget about compression > (at least while the kernel and the mfs still fit on a 1200K floppy). I just want to stipulate as well that the prospect of going back to 2 floppies has long been something I've wanted to avoid. I *like* being able to boot off a single floppy with no other swapping being necessary for a standard CD or FTP install, and I'm quite keen to keep it. That's why I've been kind of quiet about these mixed kernel/MFS boot floppy ideas. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 13:19:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20427 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:19:38 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20418 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:19:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA27860; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 13:19:11 -0700 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK! Time out on 4MB issue please! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Oct 1995 10:09:58 EDT." <199510021409.KAA10228@etinc.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 13:19:10 -0700 Message-ID: <27858.812665150@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Just give us a little more than a few days warning and maybe someone else wil l > address the issue. Last minute bombshells generate tremendous passion. Very well, consider your warning submitted NOW. The time to fix this problem is NOW, not 1 week before 2.2 goes out the door. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 14:58:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA24909 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:58:46 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA24901 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:58:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA17341 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:02:03 -0400 Message-Id: <199510022202.SAA17341@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel book process (was 4m vs. 8m install kernel) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Oct 1995 15:23:08 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 18:02:02 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm not real current in how FreeBSD boots, but I guess > If you want the $5 tour, look on: That is more like the Nickel tour. No real details. (This from a fussy old fart (me) who wrote boot-time initialization code for VMS on the VaxFT3000). Still, it is consistent with normal bootstrap processing. I still think having a tertiary boostrap would do work fine, and the tertiary bootstrap itself would need be not much larger than the secondary bootstrap, and would need only a 64 KB buffer, and could be placed in low memory... Leaving a full 3MB for the kernel itself... You would need as many of these as you had secondary bootstraps. One for each boot method... And the nice thing is you would only use it for compressed kernels, and it would require no changes to the kernel *or* the secondary bootstrap (except for changing the default bootfile). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 16:01:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA29711 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:01:36 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29701 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:01:30 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA00231; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:00:05 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510022300.QAA00231@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510021449.KAA14101@spooky.rwwa.com> from "Robert Withrow" at Oct 2, 95 10:49:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1235 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The trouble is.. What WAS the boot media? net? DOS? floppy? scsi tape? once the kernel is loaded all it an rely on is it's own image.. > > I have a suggestion that you (i.e. hackers) probably won't like, > but why not uncompress the kernel *from* the boot media. The > way this would work would be kinda like how VMS boots. There > would be a tertiary bootstrap whose job it would be to read > and uncompress the kernel into the proper place in memory and > start it running. > > I'm not real current in how FreeBSD boots, but I guess that the > primary bootstrap (on the boot sector, or on the network card, > or whatever) loads the secondary bootstrap which does some > diagnostics, hardware initialization, memory sizing, etc.etc.etc. > and, currently, loads and runs the kernel. Instead the secondary > bootstap would load the tertiary bootstrap (or perhaps one of many > tertiary bootstraps) pass it the necessary parameters, and the > tertiary bootstrap would take it from there. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM > R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 18:05:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08656 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:05:22 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08649 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:05:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA28992; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:05:14 -0700 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) cc: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Oct 1995 00:09:49 BST." <199510012309.AAA17843@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 18:05:14 -0700 Message-ID: <28990.812682314@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Last time i've checked the fixit floppy, many things weren't there. > Among them (offhand): > > o a minimum termcap file I don't have one handy. Any takers? > o a non-null spwd.db file (containing at least the root entry, so > rsh/rcp/rdump/rrestore would work) Hmmmm. Well, I've used the default spwd.db from the distribution, I assume that at least has root in it. It's 40K. > o mount_mfs, to enable large /tmp filesystems; restore requires > lots of space in /tmp in order to drop its symtab files Done. > o the ps(1) command was entirely useless (no /dev/kmem, no kernel > with a symbol table around) What ps command? I don't have that on the fixit floppy! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:27:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA20576 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:27:15 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA20559 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:27:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA27249; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:26:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199510030226.UAA27249@rover.village.org> To: Brian Tao Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 01 Oct 1995 15:40:37 EDT Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 20:26:42 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : So for simply mirroring needs, ncftp2 could be a : suitable alternative, and doesn't use anywhere near the amount of : memory that perl script does. I've had *HORRIBLE* problems getting 2.0.6 to do the job, and 2.1.1 won't compile and linnk for me. :-(. Gotta grab some curses thing or another... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:30:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA21232 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:30:29 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA21204 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:30:19 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA28614; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:29:58 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:29:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Jake Hamby cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Calling all commercial software demo folks! Deadlines approach. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > > Also, I already suggested to Jordan that there is an excellent Macintosh > emulator from a company called ARDI (http://www.ardi.com/) which is > currently for DOS/NextStep/Linux and seems to work okay under FreeBSD's > Linux emulator. You're sh*ttin' me... FreeBSD emulating Linux emulating a Macintosh? Can we run MachTen on the virtual Mac? :) I think I better go lie down. :) -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:33:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA21734 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:33:13 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA21699 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:33:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA27296; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:32:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199510030232.UAA27296@rover.village.org> To: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 01 Oct 1995 17:28:37 PDT Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 20:32:52 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk How much space do the PCI drivers take up? Would it be reasonable to assume that you either have a 4M machine with <= 486 and no PCI bus or that you have a PCI bus machine with > 4M of memory? Then it would be a simple matter of two different kernels, right? Just a thought... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:38:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA22782 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:38:40 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA22761 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:38:33 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA28878; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:37:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:37:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vgalib for FreeBSD! In-Reply-To: <199510021827.LAA22116@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I do not like Ctk and ham! I do not like them, Sam I am! :-) > > Would you, could you, on your box? > > Would you, could you, using IP tunneling over socks? Oh great, it looks like the two perl scripts have gotten each other into some sort of feedback loop. ;-) -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:39:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA23169 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:39:43 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA23147 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:39:37 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA28932; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:39:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: <199510020720.IAA19063@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > Very simple: somebody actually _has_to_implement_it_! Delete out the extraneous driver lines in the kernel config file, rebuild the boot floppy, and try it out on a 4-meg machine to see if it boots? Am I missing something? -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:46:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA24753 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:46:56 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24723 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:46:45 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA29014; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:46:31 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: <199510021727.NAA10736@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, dennis wrote: > > Thats the point. Smaller is better for everyone. First you say FreeBSD would be catering to idiots with a small install kernel image, now you're saying that it would be better for everyone. Are you then implying that we're all idiots? ;-) > Is it OK to write bad code because 'processors are fast" and "memory > is cheap"? So you're saying that "small is beautiful" if it is the result of efficient code, not lack of functionality. A couple years ago, I simply would not have believed a decent OS could not fit in under 2 megs of RAM (coming from the Apple II world does that to you). Now I realize that companies with marketable products don't have the luxury of hiring programmers to write algorithms in hand-tuned assembler for maximum performance. I don't think the "more hardware is better" mentality is at work here in the FreeBSD camp. We are simply caught in a bad situation where there isn't enough time to implement a good and proper solution (loadable device drivers, on-disk filesystem, what have you), so an alternative must be found. The hack-and-slash solution of deleting unneeded drivers isn't my favourite method either, but I'd rather have that than god-knows how many users between now and 2.2 turned away because they couldn't even install the damn thing. -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:49:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA25480 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:49:53 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA25457 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:49:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA27450; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:48:54 -0600 Message-Id: <199510030248.UAA27450@rover.village.org> To: Brian Tao Subject: Re: vgalib for FreeBSD! Cc: Terry Lambert , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 02 Oct 1995 22:37:29 EDT Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 20:48:54 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : Oh great, it looks like the two perl scripts have gotten each : other into some sort of feedback loop. ;-) Nah, its a Forth program, and a tk program in a loop :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:54:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA26440 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:54:13 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA26407 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:54:03 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA29100; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:53:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:53:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199510030226.UAA27249@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Warner Losh wrote: > > I've had *HORRIBLE* problems getting 2.0.6 to do the job, and 2.1.1 > won't compile and linnk for me. :-(. Gotta grab some curses thing or > another... Unless I've been installing packages in my sleep *<;-), the ncurses in 950726 works just fine. I have the full-screen interface junk turned off by default though, so maybe that's the difference. I also edited the link line in the Makefile to include -lreadline, -lncurses, -ltermcap and -lcurses. 2.1.1 builds and runs just fine like that. There's even a port for it, I believe. I don't think it will delete extraneous files (real 'mirror' can do that), but if you're faced with a huge directory hierarchy where only a smattering of files are updated, ncftp2's "get -R" command works quite well. I'm handing it off to a friend who maintains the Linux mirror on ftp.io.org so he can try it out (he can't get it to build correctly on his Linux machine, neener neener neener!). :) -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 19:58:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA27399 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:58:12 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA27377 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 19:58:08 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA29239; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:57:46 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:57:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vgalib for FreeBSD! In-Reply-To: <199510030248.UAA27450@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Warner Losh wrote: > > : Oh great, it looks like the two perl scripts have gotten each > : other into some sort of feedback loop. ;-) > > Nah, its a Forth program, and a tk program in a loop :-) If one of them is a Forth program, his lines would come out something like: (((ham green_eggs) AND) like) NOT; sam>I; :) -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 20:05:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA29082 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:05:57 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29056 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:05:51 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id WAA12129; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:58:07 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 22:58:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: FreeBSD hackers , Jake Hamby In-Reply-To: <28990.812682314@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Last time i've checked the fixit floppy, many things weren't there. > > Among them (offhand): > > > > o a minimum termcap file > > I don't have one handy. Any takers? here is one that i use: pcvt25|dec vt220 with 25 lines:\ :li#25:\ :co#80:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;25r\E[25;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt28|dec vt220 with 28 lines:\ :li#28:\ :co#80:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;28r\E[28;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt35|dec vt220 with 35 lines:\ :li#35:\ :co#80:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;35r\E[35;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt40|dec vt220 with 40 lines:\ :li#40:\ :co#80:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;40r\E[40;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt43|dec vt220 with 43 lines:\ :li#43:\ :co#80:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;43r\E[43;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt50|dec vt220 with 50 lines:\ :li#50:\ :co#80:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;50r\E[50;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: # termcap entries for pure VT220-Emulation and 25, 28, 35, 40, 43 and # 50 lines entries # 132 columns pcvt25w|dec vt220 with 25 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#25:\ :co#132:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;25r\E[25;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt28w|dec vt220 with 28 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#28:\ :co#132:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;28r\E[28;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt35w|dec vt220 with 35 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#35:\ :co#132:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;35r\E[35;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt40w|dec vt220 with 40 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#40:\ :co#132:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;40r\E[40;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt43w|dec vt220 with 43 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#43:\ :co#132:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;43r\E[43;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt50w|dec vt220 with 50 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#50:\ :co#132:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;50r\E[50;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: # termcap entries for HP-Emulation and 25, 28, 35, 40, 43 and 50 # lines entries. note that the HP-Emulation uses the bottom 3 lines # for status and function key labels, so we get always 3 lines less. # "Xs" is a nonstandard, private flag indicating HP-like fkey labels # 80 column entries pcvt22h|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels and 22 lines:\ :li#22:\ :co#80:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;22r\E[22;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt25h|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels and 25 lines:\ :li#25:\ :co#80:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;25r\E[25;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt32h|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels and 32 lines:\ :li#32:\ :co#80:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;32r\E[32;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt37h|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels and 37 lines:\ :li#37:\ :co#80:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;37r\E[37;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt40h|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels and 40 lines:\ :li#40:\ :co#80:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;40r\E[40;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt47h|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels and 47 lines:\ :li#47:\ :co#80:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;47r\E[47;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: # termcap entries for HP-Emulation and 25, 28, 35, 40, 43 and 50 # lines entries. note that the HP-Emulation uses the bottom 3 lines # for status and function key labels, so we get always 3 lines less. # "Xs" is a nonstandard, private flag indicating HP-like fkey labels # 132 column entries pcvt22hw|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels, 22 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#22:\ :co#132:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;22r\E[22;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt25hw|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels, 25 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#25:\ :co#132:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;25r\E[25;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt32hw|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels, 32 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#32:\ :co#132:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;32r\E[32;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt37hw|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels, 37 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#37:\ :co#132:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;37r\E[37;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt40hw|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels, 40 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#40:\ :co#132:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;40r\E[40;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: pcvt47hw|dec vt220 with HP-fkey labels, 47 lines and 132 cols:\ :li#47:\ :co#132:\ :Xs:\ :is=\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[1;47r\E[47;1H:\ :tc=pcvtXX: # main entry, without "is" and "li" capabilities pcvtXX|pcvt vt200 emulator (DEC VT220):\ :AL=\E[%dL:\ :DC=\E[%dP:\ :DL=\E[%dM:\ :DO=\E[%dB:\ :IC=\E[%d@:\ :LE=\E[%dD:\ :RI=\E[%dC:\ :SF=\E[%dS:\ :SR=\E[%dT:\ :UP=\E[%dA:\ :ae=^O:\ :al=\E[L:\ :am:\ :as=^N:\ :bl=^G:\ :bs:\ :cb=\E[1K:\ :cd=\E[J:\ :ce=\E[K:\ :cl=\E[H\E[J:\ :cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:\ :cr=^M:\ :cs=\E[%i%d;%dr:\ :ct=\E[3g:\ :dc=\E[P:\ :dl=\E[M:\ :do=^J:\ :ei=\E[4l:\ :ho=\E[H:\ :im=\E[4h:\ :it#8:\ :k1=\E[17~:\ :k2=\E[18~:\ :k3=\E[19~:\ :k4=\E[20~:\ :k5=\E[21~:\ :k6=\E[23~:\ :k7=\E[24~:\ :k8=\E[25~:\ :kD=\E[3~:\ :kH=\E[4~:\ :kI=\E[2~:\ :kN=\E[6~:\ :kP=\E[5~:\ :kb=\177:\ :kd=\EOB:\ :ke=\E[?1l\E>:\ :kh=\E[1~:\ :kl=\EOD:\ :km:\ :kr=\EOC:\ :ks=\E[?1h\E=:\ :ku=\EOA:\ :le=^H:\ :mb=\E[5m:\ :md=\E[1m:\ :me=\E[m:\ :mi:\ :mr=\E[7m:\ :ms:\ :nd=\E[C:\ :pb#16000000:\ :pt:\ :rc=\E8:\ :rf=/usr/share/tabset/vt100:\ :rs=\Ec\E>\E[?3l\E[?4l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h:\ :sc=\E7:\ :se=\E[27m:\ :sf=\ED:\ :so=\E[7m:\ :sr=\EM:\ :st=\EH:\ :ue=\E[24m:\ :up=\E[A:\ :us=\E[4m:\ :vt#3:\ :xn: # for syscons # common entry without semigraphics cons25w|ansiw|ansi80x25-raw:\ :al=\E[L:am:bs:NP:cd=\E[J:ce=\E[K:cl=\E[H\E[J:cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:co#80:\ :dc=\E[P:dl=\E[M:do=\E[B:bt=\E[Z:ho=\E[H:ic=\E[@:li#25:cb=\E[1K:\ :ms:nd=\E[C:pt:rs=\E[x\E[m\Ec:so=\E[7m:se=\E[m:up=\E[A:\ :pa#64:Co#8:Sf=\E[3%dm:Sb=\E[4%dm:op=\E[x:\ :k1=\E[M:k2=\E[N:k3=\E[O:k4=\E[P:k5=\E[Q:k6=\E[R:k7=\E[S:k8=\E[T:\ :k9=\E[U:k;=\E[V:F1=\E[W:F2=\E[X:K2=\E[E:nw=\E[E:ec=\E[%dX:\ :kb=^H:kh=\E[H:ku=\E[A:kd=\E[B:kl=\E[D:kr=\E[C:le=^H:eo:sf=\E[S:sr=\E[T: \ :kN=\E[G:kP=\E[I:@7=\E[F:kI=\E[L:kB=\E[Z:\ :IC=\E[%d@:DC=\E[%dP:SF=\E[%dS:SR=\E[%dT:AL=\E[%dL:DL=\E[%dM:\ :DO=\E[%dB:LE=\E[%dD:RI=\E[%dC:UP=\E[%dA:cv=\E[%i%dd:ch=\E[%i%d`:bw:\ :mb=\E[5m:md=\E[1m:mh=\E[30;1m:mr=\E[7m:me=\E[m:bl=^G:ut:it#8: cons25|ansis|ansi80x25:\ :ac=l\332m\300k\277j\331u\264t\303v\301w\302q\304x\263n\305`^Da\260f\370 g\361~\371.^Y-^Xh\261I^U0\333y\363z\362:\ :tc=cons25w: cons25-m|ansis-mono|ansi80x25-mono:\ :pa@:Co@:Sf@:Sb@:op@:us=\E[4m:ue=\E[m:md@:mh@:tc=cons25: cons30|ansi80x30:\ :li#30:tc=cons25: cons30-m|ansi80x30-mono:\ :li#30:tc=cons25-m: cons43|ansi80x43:\ :li#43:tc=cons25: cons43-m|ansi80x43-mono:\ :li#43:tc=cons25-m: cons50|ansil|ansi80x50:\ :li#50:tc=cons25: cons50-m|ansil-mono|ansi80x50-mono:\ :li#50:tc=cons25-m: cons60|ansi80x60:\ :li#60:tc=cons25: cons60-m|ansi80x60-mono:\ :li#60:tc=cons25-m: # Syscons console with koi8-r russian code table. cons25r|pc3r|ibmpc3r|cons25-koi8-r:\ :ac=q\200x\201m\204v\211j\205t\206n\212u\207l\202w\210k\203y\230z\231f\2 34~\225a\220h\221`^D.^Y-^XI^U0\215:\ :kD=\E[K:tc=cons25w: cons25r-m|pc3r-m|ibmpc3r-mono|cons25-koi8-r-mono:\ :pa@:Co@:Sf@:Sb@:op@:us=\E[4m:ue=\E[m:md@:mh@:tc=cons25r: cons50r|cons50-koi8-r:\ :li#50:tc=cons25r: cons50r-m|cons50-koi8-r-mono:\ :li#50:tc=cons25r-m: # 80x25 ISO 8859-1 FreeBSD console cons25l1|cons25-iso8859-1:\ :ac=l\215m\216k\214j\213u\226t\225v\227w\230q\222x\231n\217o\220s\224p\2 21r\223`\201a\202f\207g\210~\237.^Y-^X+\253,\273I\247y\232z\233:\ :tc=cons25w: cons25l1-m|cons25-iso8859-1-mono:\ :pa@:Co@:Sf@:Sb@:op@:us=\E[4m:ue=\E[m:md@:mh@:tc=cons25l1: # 80x50 ISO 8859-1 FreeBSD console cons50l1|cons50-iso8859-1:\ :li#50:tc=cons25l1: cons50l1-m|cons50-iso8859-1-mono:\ :li#50:tc=cons25l1-m: dosansi|ANSI.SYS standard crt:\ :am:bs:ce=\E[K:cl=\E[2J:cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:co#80:\ :do=\E[B:li#25:mi:nd=\E[C:\ :se=\E[m:so=\E[7m:up=\E[A:us=\E[4m:ue=\E[m:\ :md=\E[1m:mh=\E[m:mb=\E[5m:me=\E[m:\ :kh=\EG:kb=^h:ku=\EH:kd=\EP:kl=\EK:kr=\EM:\ :k1=\E;:k2=\E<:k3=\E=:k4=\E>:k5=\E?:\ :k6=\E@:k7=\EA:k8=\EB:k9=\EC:k0=\ED: Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 20:37:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA03433 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:37:49 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA03414 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:37:43 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA00153; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:37:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:37:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-Reply-To: <28990.812682314@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > o a minimum termcap file > > I don't have one handy. Any takers? If it were up to me, pcvt would be the default console driver and the only termcap entry needed would be vt100. :) But, since we live in the real world: >>>>> vt100|dec-vt100|vt100-am|vt100am|dec vt100:\ :do=2\E[B:co#80:li#24:cl=50\E[H\E[J:sf=2*\ED:\ :le=^H:bs:am:cm=5\E[%i%d;%dH:nd=2\E[C:up=2\E[A:\ :ce=3\E[K:cd=50\E[J:so=2\E[7m:se=2\E[m:us=2\E[4m:ue=2\E[m:\ :md=2\E[1m:mr=2\E[7m:mb=2\E[5m:me=2\E[m:\ :is=\E>\E[?1;3;4;5l\E[?7;8h\E[1;24r\E[24;1H:\ :if=/usr/share/tabset/vt100:nw=2\EE:\ :as=2\E(0:ae=2\E(B:ac=llmmkkjjuuttvvwwqqxxnnoosspprr``aaffgg~~..--++,,hhII00yyzz:\ :rs=\E>\E[?1;3;4;5l\E[?7;8h:ks=\E[?1h\E=:ke=\E[?1l\E>:\ :ku=\EOA:kd=\EOB:kr=\EOC:kl=\EOD:kb=\177:\ :ho=\E[H:k1=\EOP:k2=\EOQ:k3=\EOR:k4=\EOS:pt:sr=2*\EM:vt#3:xn:\ :sc=2\E7:rc=2\E8:cs=5\E[%i%d;%dr:UP=2\E[%dA:DO=2\E[%dB:RI=2\E[%dC:\ :LE=2\E[%dD:ct=2\E[3g:st=2\EH:ta=^I:ms:bl=^G:cr=^M:eo:it#8:ut: vt100-np|dec-vt100-np|vt100 with no padding (for psl games):\ :do=\E[B:cl=\E[H\E[J:sf=\ED:as=\E(0:ae=\E(B:\ :cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:nd=\E[C:up=\E[A:nw=\EE:\ :ce=\E[K:cd=\E[J:so=\E[7m:se=\E[m:us=\E[4m:ue=\E[m:\ :md=\E[1m:mr=\E[7m:mb=\E[5m:me=\E[m:sr=\EM:\ :sc=\E7:rc=\E8:cs=\E[%i%d;%dr:UP=\E[%dA:DO=\E[%dB:RI=\E[%dC:\ :LE=\E[%dD:ct=\E[3g:st=\EH:tc=vt100-am: vt102|dec-vt102-am|vt102am|vt100 w/adv. video:\ :al=\E[L:dl=\E[M:im=\E[4h:ei=\E[4l:mi:dc=\E[P:\ :k0=\EOp:k1=\EOq:k2=\EOr:k3=\EOs:k4=\EOt:k5=\EOu:\ :k6=\EOv:k7=\EOw:k8=\EOx:k9=\EOy:k;=\EOm:F1=\EOl:F2=\EOM:\ :@7=\E[K:kh=\E[H:kN=\E[Oq:kP=\E[Or:kI=\EOn:kD=\ED:\ :AL=\E[%dL:DL=\E[%dM:DC=\E[%dP:tc=vt100-np: vt200|vt220|vt220am|dec-vt220|dec vt200 series with jump scroll:\ :@7=\E[4~:kh=\E[1~:kI=\E[2~:k0=\E[10~:\ :kD=\E[3~:k1=\E[11~:k2=\E[12~:k3=\E[13~:k4=\E[14~:k5=\E[15~:\ :k6=\E[17~:k7=\E[18~:k8=\E[19~:k9=\E[20~:k;=\E[21~:F1=\E[22~:\ :F2=\E[23~:kP=\E[5~:kN=\E[6~:\ :K1=\EOw:K2=\EOy:K3=\EOu:K4=\EOq:K5=\EOs:\ :tc=vt102: ansi|any ansi terminal with pessimistic assumptions:\ :co#80:li#24:cl=50\E[;H\E[2J:bs:am:cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:\ :nd=\E[C:up=\E[A:ce=\E[K:ho=\E[H:pt: cons25w|ansiw|ansi80x25-raw:\ :al=\E[L:am:bs:NP:cd=\E[J:ce=\E[K:cl=\E[H\E[J:cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:co#80:\ :dc=\E[P:dl=\E[M:do=\E[B:bt=\E[Z:ho=\E[H:ic=\E[@:li#25:cb=\E[1K:\ :ms:nd=\E[C:pt:rs=\E[x\E[m\Ec:so=\E[7m:se=\E[m:up=\E[A:\ :pa#64:Co#8:Sf=\E[3%dm:Sb=\E[4%dm:op=\E[x:\ :k1=\E[M:k2=\E[N:k3=\E[O:k4=\E[P:k5=\E[Q:k6=\E[R:k7=\E[S:k8=\E[T:\ :k9=\E[U:k;=\E[V:F1=\E[W:F2=\E[X:K2=\E[E:nw=\E[E:ec=\E[%dX:\ :kb=^H:kh=\E[H:ku=\E[A:kd=\E[B:kl=\E[D:kr=\E[C:le=^H:eo:sf=\E[S:sr=\E[T:\ :kN=\E[G:kP=\E[I:@7=\E[F:kI=\E[L:kB=\E[Z:\ :IC=\E[%d@:DC=\E[%dP:SF=\E[%dS:SR=\E[%dT:AL=\E[%dL:DL=\E[%dM:\ :DO=\E[%dB:LE=\E[%dD:RI=\E[%dC:UP=\E[%dA:cv=\E[%i%dd:ch=\E[%i%d`:bw:\ :mb=\E[5m:md=\E[1m:mh=\E[30;1m:mr=\E[7m:me=\E[m:bl=^G:ut:it#8: cons25|ansis|ansi80x25:\ :ac=l\332m\300k\277j\331u\264t\303v\301w\302q\304x\263n\305`^Da\260f\370g\361~\371.^Y-^Xh\261I^U0\333y\363z\362:\ :tc=cons25w: <<<<< That basically includes your DEC VT variants and one for syscons. The other entries are to satisfy some dependencies in vt220 and cons25. -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 23:14:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA19255 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:14:10 -0700 Received: from ic.net (falcon.ic.net [152.160.101.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA19237 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:14:08 -0700 Received: by ic.net (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0t00bw-000gp8C; Tue, 3 Oct 95 02:13 WET DST Message-Id: From: rdm@ic.net (Rob Misiak) Subject: system crash - help! To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:13:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1234 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am running 2.2-current (but I don't think that's the cause of my problem; see below) and I logged out of a vty, and the system just hung. The hard disk light was flickering, but I did not hear the disk spin at all. I ended up doing a cold reset, and my filesystems ended up a mess. I booted into single-user mode, and restored backups of /etc and /usr/local/etc (in case any of the files were damaged) and ran fsck, etc. I then rebooted, and after the disks were mounted (but right before root was re-mounted for read-write) the system hung again. I hit ^C, and I guess skipped whatever was hanging, and went on with the rest of the rc files. The same thing happened with sendmail, so I hit ^C again. And finally, the system hung once more when I was supposed to get the login prompt. Obviously, I couldn't do anything here. I tried also booting 2.0.5 generic and 2.1.0-something-snap kernels, but the same thing happened. Any idea what caused this, and more importantly, how to fix it? The few times that the system did crash before nothing like this happened. At the moment I'm stuck in single-user mode using cu to log into a shell account, so naturally I'm eager to get the system back to they way it used to be. :-) Rob From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 23:49:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA22215 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:49:33 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA22207 ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:49:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199510030649.XAA22207@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons To: serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (Sergey Shkonda) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510021807.AA18684@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> from "Sergey Shkonda" at Oct 2, 95 08:07:02 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 835 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Sergey Shkonda who wrote: > > > First change is a bug fix in syscons.c: > sequence 'ESC [ n X' now work > > Second change append SCO console like font changing: > ESC [ 10 m - selects the primary font > ESC [ 12 m - selects seconds alternate font; toggles > high bit of extended ASCII code before > displaying as ROM sharacters > ESC [ m > ESC [ 0 m + selects the primary font > > Serg | Relcom: > (Sergey Shkonda) | serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua THanks! I'll get it into the sources... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 23:54:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA22886 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:54:34 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA22875 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:54:32 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA17307; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:52:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA00225; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:54:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199510030654.XAA00225@corbin.Root.COM> To: rdm@ic.net (Rob Misiak) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: system crash - help! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 95 02:13:52 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 23:54:20 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I am running 2.2-current (but I don't think that's the cause of my problem; >see below) and I logged out of a vty, and the system just hung. The hard >disk light was flickering, but I did not hear the disk spin at all. I ended >up doing a cold reset, and my filesystems ended up a mess. I booted into >single-user mode, and restored backups of /etc and /usr/local/etc (in case >any of the files were damaged) and ran fsck, etc. I then rebooted, and >after the disks were mounted (but right before root was re-mounted for >read-write) the system hung again. I hit ^C, and I guess skipped whatever >was hanging, and went on with the rest of the rc files. The same thing >happened with sendmail, so I hit ^C again. And finally, the system hung >once more when I was supposed to get the login prompt. Obviously, I couldn't >do anything here. I tried also booting 2.0.5 generic and 2.1.0-something-snap >kernels, but the same thing happened. Any idea what caused this, and more >importantly, how to fix it? The few times that the system did crash before >nothing like this happened. At the moment I'm stuck in single-user mode using >cu to log into a shell account, so naturally I'm eager to get the system back >to they way it used to be. :-) Sounds like your nameserver or your network connection went out to lunch. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 2 23:58:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA23324 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:58:58 -0700 Received: from ic.net (falcon.ic.net [152.160.101.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA23317 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:58:55 -0700 Received: by ic.net (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0t01JH-000gp9C; Tue, 3 Oct 95 02:58 WET DST Message-Id: From: rdm@ic.net (Rob Misiak) Subject: Re: system crash - help! To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:58:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 286 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: > > Sounds like your nameserver or your network connection went out to lunch. > > -DG > No, that couldn't be it. (I should have said this before) I just have a 14.4k PPP connection through a local provider. The system is never connected at that time. Rob From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 00:31:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA24836 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:31:30 -0700 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA24831 ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:31:21 -0700 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD-4.4) id RAA08680; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:31:08 +1000 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199510030731.RAA08680@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons To: sos@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:31:07 +1000 (EST) Cc: serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510030649.XAA22207@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@freebsd.org" at Oct 2, 95 11:49:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1392 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk sos@freebsd.org writes: > > Second change append SCO console like font changing: > > ESC [ 10 m - selects the primary font > > ESC [ 12 m - selects seconds alternate font; toggles > > high bit of extended ASCII code before > > displaying as ROM sharacters > > ESC [ m > > ESC [ 0 m + selects the primary font > THanks! I'll get it into the sources... ISC (which is supposed to be SCO-compatible) also has .. (extracted from the display(7) man page) .. ESC[ 11 m selects the first alternate font; lets ASCII characters less than 32 be displayed as ROM characters .. and .. ESCx Where x is any of the 256 possible codes (except c, [, and H), displays that value uninterpreted. This is useful for utilizing the full set of graphics available on the display. Note again that the char- acters are processed through the terminal interface prior to this escape sequence. Therefore, to get some of the possible 256 characters, it is necessary that the character not be postprocessed. The easi- est way to accomplish this is to turn off OPOST in the c_oflag field (see termio(7)); however, this may have other side effects. .. are these in SCO ? michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 01:42:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA27986 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 01:42:11 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA27975 ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 01:42:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199510030842.BAA27975@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons To: imb@scgt.oz.au (michael butler) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 01:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sos@freebsd.org, serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510030731.RAA08680@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> from "michael butler" at Oct 3, 95 05:31:07 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1795 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to michael butler who wrote: > > sos@freebsd.org writes: > > > > Second change append SCO console like font changing: > > > ESC [ 10 m - selects the primary font > > > ESC [ 12 m - selects seconds alternate font; toggles > > > high bit of extended ASCII code before > > > displaying as ROM sharacters > > > ESC [ m > > > ESC [ 0 m + selects the primary font > > > THanks! I'll get it into the sources... > > ISC (which is supposed to be SCO-compatible) also has .. (extracted from the > display(7) man page) .. > > ESC[ 11 m selects the first alternate font; lets > ASCII characters less than 32 be > displayed as ROM characters > > .. and .. That makes sense... > ESCx Where x is any of the 256 possible codes (except c, > [, and H), displays that value uninterpreted. This > is useful for utilizing the full set of graphics > available on the display. Note again that the char- > acters are processed through the terminal interface > prior to this escape sequence. Therefore, to get > some of the possible 256 characters, it is necessary > that the character not be postprocessed. The easi- > est way to accomplish this is to turn off OPOST in > the c_oflag field (see termio(7)); however, this may > have other side effects. > > .. are these in SCO ? The ESCx sequence is not in any of the SCO docs that I have access to, anybody ?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 02:39:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA05335 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:39:43 -0700 Received: from frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (ZGIK-1-ELIS-14.4K.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA05272 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:39:11 -0700 Received: from zgik.UUCP by frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua with UUCP id LAA06774; (8.6.11/vak/1.8e) Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:29:22 +0200 Received: by relay1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (uumail v1.5/ache) id AA07244; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:27:03 +0200 Received: from bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.29]) by bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA07241 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:27:02 +0200 Received: by bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA06837 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:21:12 +0200 From: Sergey Shkonda Message-Id: <199510030921.AA06837@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:21:07 +0200 (UKR) In-Reply-To: <199510030842.BAA27975@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@freebsd.org" at Oct 3, 95 01:42:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1974 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply to michael butler who wrote: > > > > sos@freebsd.org writes: > > > > > > Second change append SCO console like font changing: > > > > ESC [ 10 m - selects the primary font > > > > ESC [ 12 m - selects seconds alternate font; toggles > > > > high bit of extended ASCII code before > > > > displaying as ROM sharacters > > > > ESC [ m > > > > ESC [ 0 m + selects the primary font > > > > > THanks! I'll get it into the sources... > > > > ISC (which is supposed to be SCO-compatible) also has .. (extracted from the > > display(7) man page) .. > > > > ESC[ 11 m selects the first alternate font; lets > > ASCII characters less than 32 be > > displayed as ROM characters > > > > .. and .. > > That makes sense... for displaying ASCII characters less than 32: ESC[ 12 m 'char' | 0x80 but in case ESC[ 11 m ROM character with code 0x1b will be also displayed when ESC[ 10 m processing > > > ESCx Where x is any of the 256 possible codes (except c, > > [, and H), displays that value uninterpreted. This > > is useful for utilizing the full set of graphics > > available on the display. Note again that the char- > > acters are processed through the terminal interface > > prior to this escape sequence. Therefore, to get > > some of the possible 256 characters, it is necessary > > that the character not be postprocessed. The easi- > > est way to accomplish this is to turn off OPOST in > > the c_oflag field (see termio(7)); however, this may > > have other side effects. > > > > .. are these in SCO ? > > The ESCx sequence is not in any of the SCO docs that I have > access to, anybody ?? > -- Serg | Relcom: (Sergey Shkonda) | serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 02:40:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA05601 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:40:45 -0700 Received: from frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (ZGIK-1-ELIS-14.4K.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA05448 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:40:02 -0700 Received: from zgik.UUCP by frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua with UUCP id LAA06772; (8.6.11/vak/1.8e) Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:29:19 +0200 Received: by relay1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (uumail v1.5/ache) id AA07212; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:15:49 +0200 Received: from bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.29]) by bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA07209 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:15:48 +0200 Received: by bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA06715 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:09:58 +0200 From: Sergey Shkonda Message-Id: <199510030909.AA06715@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: Some more patches to syscons To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:09:53 +0200 (UKR) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3646 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This patches errors in relative cursor moving when (xpos+dx, ypos+dy) is not on screen. In this case cursor moving to left (rigt, top, bottom) of screen. ESC [ n H now move to row n, column 1 -- Serg | Relcom: (Sergey Shkonda) | serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua *** syscons.c Tue Oct 3 10:49:22 1995 --- syscons.c Tue Oct 3 10:49:18 1995 *************** *** 1410,1440 **** --- 1410,1448 ---- case 'A': /* up n rows */ n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; + if (n > scp->ypos) n = scp->ypos; move_crsr(scp, scp->xpos, scp->ypos - n); break; case 'B': /* down n rows */ + case 'e': /* move cursor n rows down */ n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; + if (n + scp->ypos >= scp->ysize) n = scp->ysize - scp->ypos - 1; move_crsr(scp, scp->xpos, scp->ypos + n); break; case 'C': /* right n columns */ + case 'a': /* move cursor n columns to the right */ n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; + if (n + scp->xpos >= scp->xsize) n = scp->xsize - scp->xpos -1; move_crsr(scp, scp->xpos + n, scp->ypos); break; case 'D': /* left n columns */ n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; + if (n > scp->xpos) n = scp->xpos; move_crsr(scp, scp->xpos - n, scp->ypos); break; case 'E': /* cursor to start of line n lines down */ n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; + if (scp->ypos + n >= scp->ysize) n = scp->ysize - scp->ypos - 1; move_crsr(scp, 0, scp->ypos + n); break; case 'F': /* cursor to start of line n lines up */ n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; + if (n > scp->ypos) n = scp->ypos; move_crsr(scp, 0, scp->ypos - n); break; *************** *** 1442,1449 **** case 'H': if (scp->term.num_param == 0) move_crsr(scp, 0, 0); ! else if (scp->term.num_param == 2) ! move_crsr(scp, scp->term.param[1] - 1, scp->term.param[0] - 1); break; case 'J': /* Clear all or part of display */ --- 1450,1459 ---- case 'H': if (scp->term.num_param == 0) move_crsr(scp, 0, 0); ! else if (scp->term.num_param == 1) ! move_crsr(scp, 0, scp->term.param[0] - 1); ! else if (scp->term.num_param == 2) ! move_crsr(scp, scp->term.param[1] - 1, scp->term.param[0] - 1); break; case 'J': /* Clear all or part of display */ *************** *** 1611,1631 **** move_crsr(scp, n - 1, scp->ypos); break; - case 'a': /* move cursor n columns to the right */ - n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; - move_crsr(scp, scp->xpos + n, scp->ypos); - break; - case 'd': /* move cursor to row n */ n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; move_crsr(scp, scp->xpos, n - 1); break; - case 'e': /* move cursor n rows down */ - n = scp->term.param[0]; if (n < 1) n = 1; - move_crsr(scp, scp->xpos, scp->ypos + n); - break; - case 'm': /* change attribute */ if (scp->term.num_param == 0) { scp->term.cur_attr = scp->term.std_attr; --- 1621,1631 ---- *************** *** 1724,1730 **** break; } } ! else if (scp->term.esc == 3) { if (c >= '0' && c <= '9') { if (scp->term.num_param < MAX_ESC_PAR) { if (scp->term.last_param != scp->term.num_param) { --- 1724,1730 ---- break; } } ! else if (scp->term.esc == 3) { /* ESC [ = */ if (c >= '0' && c <= '9') { if (scp->term.num_param < MAX_ESC_PAR) { if (scp->term.last_param != scp->term.num_param) { From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 02:45:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA06147 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:45:14 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA06100 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:44:58 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA03174 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:44:52 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA09532 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:44:51 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA03711 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:28:26 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510030928.KAA03711@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:28:23 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Oct 2, 95 10:39:22 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 905 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Tao wrote: > > > Very simple: somebody actually _has_to_implement_it_! > > Delete out the extraneous driver lines in the kernel config file, > rebuild the boot floppy, and try it out on a 4-meg machine to see if > it boots? Am I missing something? Yes, you are. Where's the diff to drop it in? :-) That's what i was about to say: Jordan and David have enough items on their plate. So if they don't have time to implement it, somebody has to deal with it and make a proposal that's not only verbal, but accompanied by a diff -u output that would cleanly drop into the tree, so all they have to do is reviewing it and take care for not breaking anything else. Guess why i've been running a "make release" last sunday...? :) But no promises. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 02:46:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA06299 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:46:36 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA06287 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:46:31 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA03249 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:46:20 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA09551 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:46:19 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA02579 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:06:17 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510030906.KAA02579@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:06:14 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Oct 2, 95 10:58:05 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 931 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Last time i've checked the fixit floppy, many things weren't there. > > > Among them (offhand): > > > > > > o a minimum termcap file > > > > I don't have one handy. Any takers? > > here is one that i use: > > pcvt25|dec vt220 with 25 lines:\ Rather bloated. :-) I'd go with Brian's version. For pcvt, you don't even need an extra termcap entry, vt100 will always do. (Switching the screen size in any way will always be handled well by the tty window size structure.) > dosansi|ANSI.SYS standard crt:\ But _this_ one seems to be interesting. OTOH, any DOS box hooked up as a FreeBSD console would require a terminal program, and this will provide some sort of vt100 emulation as well. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 02:46:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA06316 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:46:39 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA06286 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:46:30 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA03253 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:46:21 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA09552 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:46:21 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA02773 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:09:15 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510030909.KAA02773@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:09:12 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <28990.812682314@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 2, 95 06:05:14 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 993 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > o a non-null spwd.db file (containing at least the root entry, so > > rsh/rcp/rdump/rrestore would work) > > Hmmmm. Well, I've used the default spwd.db from the distribution, > I assume that at least has root in it. It's 40K. Yeah, that's ok. Last time i've been checking, the .db file has been created by a "touch spwd.db" only. > > o the ps(1) command was entirely useless (no /dev/kmem, no kernel > > with a symbol table around) > > What ps command? I don't have that on the fixit floppy! Hmmmm. It's been there on my last fixit floppy. Anyway, ps(1) is something useful. I'd go for a cut-down version, based on procfs. It's hard to figure out which process to kill if you cannot get a list of them. :) The current approach for the fixit floppy seems to be fine for me! (the two-floppy set) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 03:06:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA08508 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:06:23 -0700 Received: from hk.super.net (root@hk.super.net [202.14.67.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA08493 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:06:17 -0700 Received: from rssd.hk.olivetti.com (rssd.hk.olivetti.com [202.64.192.5]) by hk.super.net (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id SAA29275 for <@hk.super.net:hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:06:00 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <199510031006.SAA29275@hk.super.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:00:18 +0800 (HKT) From: "Raju M. Daryanani" Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510030232.UAA27296@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Oct 2, 95 08:32:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Warner Losh: > How much space do the PCI drivers take up? Would it be reasonable to > assume that you either have a 4M machine with <= 486 and no PCI bus or > that you have a PCI bus machine with > 4M of memory? No, my employer at least has almost completely stopped making non-PCI machines. The entry level system is now a 486DX2/66 with PCI bus and 4MB RAM. Of course I wouldn't buy a machine like that, but we have lots of customers who still only want to run DOS and buy it with 4MB. I doubt the other PC vendors will be far behind. Raju -- Raju M. Daryanani | Email: raju@rssd.hk.olivetti.com Technical Support Manager | raju@hk.super.net, raju@air.org Products Division | Tel: +852 2979 2450 / Fax: +852 2802 6650 Olivetti (HK) Ltd. | [Finger for PGP key] [MIME understood] From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 03:26:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA10743 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:26:30 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA10732 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:26:24 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA17501; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:25:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA00165; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:26:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199510031026.DAA00165@corbin.Root.COM> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 95 10:28:23 BST." <199510030928.KAA03711@uriah.heep.sax.de> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 03:26:23 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >As Brian Tao wrote: >> >> > Very simple: somebody actually _has_to_implement_it_! >> >> Delete out the extraneous driver lines in the kernel config file, >> rebuild the boot floppy, and try it out on a 4-meg machine to see if >> it boots? Am I missing something? > >Yes, you are. Where's the diff to drop it in? :-) > >That's what i was about to say: Jordan and David have enough items on >their plate. So if they don't have time to implement it, somebody has >to deal with it and make a proposal that's not only verbal, but >accompanied by a diff -u output that would cleanly drop into the tree, I read diff -c much easier. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 03:30:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA11005 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:30:06 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA10988 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:30:00 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id LAA20269; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:19:33 +0100 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA19413; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:33:44 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199510030833.JAA19413@knobel.gun.de> Subject: Re: make world on FreeBSD-stable impossible. cc1: ... signal 11 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:33:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, terry@lambert.org, davidg@root.com, mark@grondar.za, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509291919.UAA04815@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 29, 95 08:19:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1903 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > As Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > > Well not only a fan. A fan with a heat sensor. So I thought I'm > > relatively save, not overheating the P90. And I think this is the only > > thing that might happen, when overclocking a chip. > > You're overclocking the chip? Well, it's not only the temperature of > the case that might cause you harm. The more subtile problems do > arise out of local overheating on the chip (remember that the thermal > flow inside silicon is rather limited), which can finally cause a > total damage of the chip due to shortcuts or interruptions in some > conductor layer. The most suspectible layers are the top-level two Al > layers with the intervening insulator layer. The Al expands about one > order of magnitude more than silicon, causing "hillocks" which can > finally break through the insulator layer. Uh, thanks for the detailed description, what might happen. Fortunately it turns out, that my P90 has survived the 120 MHz burnin. I changed main memory and burst cache memory Sunday evenig and hadn't any problems since then. I made 4 make world's and am running a real stable -stable now (I hope with fingers crossed :-). > The second reason for heat-caused failures is called "electro > migration". Basically, hot spots of Al conductor pads start to get > thinner, and consequently even hotter. This is much comparable to the > burndown of the tungsten wire in a lightbulb. It's generally a long- > term failure, but caused by overheating. > > IMHO, overclocking the chip is not worth it. Ok, ok !! I'm convinced now ;-))) So I think I can say a very big "Thank you" to all of you, who helped me in the last days ! -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 03:32:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA11234 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:32:44 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA11220 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:32:36 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id LAA20196; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:19:19 +0100 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA11695; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:52:02 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199510030652.HAA11695@knobel.gun.de> Subject: Re: -stable: tuucp1061: tproto, so fast ! To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:52:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509301226.NAA10088@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Sep 30, 95 01:26:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1009 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It seems that J Wunsch said: > > Watch out, i've experienced SIGFPE's when transfering large files > > simultaneously in both directions. I've reported it to the Taylor > > UUCP list, so i thinks it's on the way to be fixed. > > Did you get them only when using TCP or is it a general "behaviour" of > the "i" protocol ? What are "large" files in your book ? I exchange > news daily (average size 50-150 KB) without problem. I haven't tried to > transfert Xemacs in both ways simultaneously yet :-) Same for me. The largest files I'm getting are the news batches which are about 180K large. I switched from t to i proto and had no problems so far. But thanks Joerg for your warning. If I have trouble using i-proto over TCP/IP, I'll look for a patch ! -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 04:01:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA18031 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 04:01:20 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA18006 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 04:01:14 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA04767 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:01:10 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA10503 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:01:10 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA07106 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:56:59 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510031056.LAA07106@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:56:56 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199510031026.DAA00165@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Oct 3, 95 03:26:23 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 279 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > > I read diff -c much easier. Okay (good to know anyway), but that's certainly not been my point... :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 04:07:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA18452 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 04:07:10 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA18446 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 04:07:02 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0t056o-000I5ZC; Tue, 3 Oct 95 12:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0t03zU-000016C; Tue, 3 Oct 95 10:50 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing To: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:50:24 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Oct 2, 95 10:58:05 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 487 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Jonathan M. Bresler: > > > o a minimum termcap file > > > > I don't have one handy. Any takers? > > here is one that i use: > > pcvt25|dec vt220 with 25 lines:\ If just a bare minimum termcap file is required, one can easily exchange all those pcvt entries with just one vt220 entry. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 04:52:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA23235 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 04:52:02 -0700 Received: from risc6.unisa.ac.za (risc6.unisa.ac.za [163.200.97.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA23162 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 04:51:46 -0700 Received: by risc6.unisa.ac.za (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA55032; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:50:36 +0200 From: radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Message-Id: <9510031150.AA55032@risc6.unisa.ac.za> Subject: ac output To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:50:36 +0200 (USAST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 91 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Could somebody tell me what units (xx.xx) are the output of the ac command? Regards, Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 05:03:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA24463 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:03:40 -0700 Received: from hcshh.hcs.de (hcshh.hcs.de [194.49.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA24449 ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:03:35 -0700 Received: from hcswork.hcs.de by hcshh.hcs.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0t065Z-000TItC; Tue, 3 Oct 95 13:04 MET Received: by hcswork.hcs.de (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0t063X-000UOnC; Tue, 3 Oct 95 13:02 MET Message-Id: From: hm@hcs.de (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: pcvt version 3.32 released To: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:02:43 +0100 (MET) Cc: frank@fwi.uva.nl, dg@freebsd.org, jtc@cygnus.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Reply-To: hm@hcs.de Organization: HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 560 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Pcvt is a video driver for FreeBSD 2.x and NetBSD/i386 1.x almost completely emulating a VT220 (VT100/VT102) terminal. Pcvt release 3.32 has been put on the following ftp site: Host: gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Address: 137.226.31.2 Directory: incoming Filename: pcvt-332.tar.gz (invisible!) Filesize: 336592 Bytes Have fun, hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH Hamburg, Europe "There are lies, damn lies, and open systems." (unknown) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 05:08:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA25062 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:08:55 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@strider.ibe.net [194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA24962 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:08:13 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA26281 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:09:44 +0100 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199510031209.NAA26281@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: RAID solutions for FreeBSD To: nc@ai.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:07:26 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Oct 1, 95 09:37:16 pm Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 746 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello. [moved to -hackers] Quoting from Network Coordinator (Mon Oct 2 02:37:16 1995): > Any reasonably inexpensive RAID solutions for FreeBSD? I know > American Megatrends has a PCI/Raid controller card but I am not sure if > it is supported. Personally, a solid RAID controller would be ideal, > enclosures and such are less important. The card I mentioned a few days ago has full RAID 5 support. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it work under FBSD. Maybe it's worth writing a driver (no I'm not able to do it). Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 05:51:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA28557 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:51:53 -0700 Received: from ic.net (falcon.ic.net [152.160.101.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA28552 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:51:50 -0700 Received: by ic.net (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0t06oo-000grMC; Tue, 3 Oct 95 08:51 WET DST Message-Id: From: rdm@ic.net (Rob Misiak) Subject: Re: system crash - help! To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 08:51:34 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "rdm" at Oct 3, 95 08:49:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1206 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wrote: > > I am running 2.2-current (but I don't think that's the cause of my problem; > see below) and I logged out of a vty, and the system just hung. The hard > disk light was flickering, but I did not hear the disk spin at all. I ended > up doing a cold reset, and my filesystems ended up a mess. I booted into > single-user mode, and restored backups of /etc and /usr/local/etc (in case > any of the files were damaged) and ran fsck, etc. I then rebooted, and > after the disks were mounted (but right before root was re-mounted for > read-write) the system hung again. I hit ^C, and I guess skipped whatever [snip] Ok, in case anyone is interested, I fixed the problem. What happened is fsck (I think that's what did this) marked some files - including /etc/ttys (causing the login problem) and /etc/hosts - character devices. I luckily had the 2.0.5-release CD lying around, so I replaced all of the messed up files I could find, and the system is back to normal. Thinking back a to a couple months ago, I remember when a friend of mine tried FreeBSD he had a sort of similar problem after a system crash, and never could get the system back to normal. Perhaps it is a problem with fsck? Rob From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 05:57:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA29073 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:57:08 -0700 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA29062 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:57:05 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by mail1.digital.com; (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA22544; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:41:31 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0t06Ye-0005OqC; Tue, 3 Oct 95 13:34 MEZ Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 13:34 MEZ From: garyj@rks32.pcs.dec.com (Gary Jennejohn) To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joerg Wunsch writes: > As Brian Tao wrote: > > > > > Very simple: somebody actually _has_to_implement_it_! > > > > Delete out the extraneous driver lines in the kernel config file, > > rebuild the boot floppy, and try it out on a 4-meg machine to see if > > it boots? Am I missing something? > > Yes, you are. Where's the diff to drop it in? :-) I've been playing around with this and have discovered that with a few trivial changes in /sys/i386/boot/kzipboot/Makefile and /usr/src/usr.bin/kzip.c it's easy to stick the decompress code at the end of the compressed image. I tested my changes with a GENERIC kernel (the one from the 2.1.0-950922-SNAP), loaded at 2MB instead of 3MB, and it worked. I'm now trying to generate a real boot kernel with an MFS file system so that I can do a realistic test. After this I'll post diffs (-c), unless someone beats me to it. It would simplify and speed things up enormously if I could just grab an uncompressed kernel with MFS already in it from somplace. Jordan, got one laying around somewhere that I can get at (freefall) ? > > That's what i was about to say: Jordan and David have enough items on > their plate. So if they don't have time to implement it, somebody has > to deal with it and make a proposal that's not only verbal, but > accompanied by a diff -u output that would cleanly drop into the tree, > so all they have to do is reviewing it and take care for not breaking > anything else. > > Guess why i've been running a "make release" last sunday...? :) But no > promises. Same here. I can't seem to get the hang of making a release :( Gary J (gj@pcs.dec.com) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 07:46:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA05007 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:46:16 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA04999 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:46:12 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA28439 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 08:46:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199510031446.IAA28439@rover.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 03 Oct 1995 18:00:18 +0800 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 08:46:10 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thus spoke Raju Daryanani: : No, my employer at least has almost completely stopped making non-PCI : machines. The entry level system is now a 486DX2/66 with PCI bus and : 4MB RAM. Of course I wouldn't buy a machine like that, but we have : lots of customers who still only want to run DOS and buy it with 4MB. : I doubt the other PC vendors will be far behind. I knew there would be some machines like this, but I guess my suggestion, if it turns out to be workable, would cover enough of the cases to be worth while, and would be easy to implement (in terms of brain power). However, it looks like there may be other solutions to this problem, so I'm not going to push it... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 09:25:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA08675 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:25:29 -0700 Received: from cecusac.gdl.iteso.mx (cecusac.gdl.iteso.mx [148.201.1.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08623 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:24:39 -0700 Received: from mexicano.gdl.iteso.mx ([148.201.1.10]) by cecusac.gdl.iteso.mx (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA10355; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:01:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199510021701.LAA10355@cecusac.gdl.iteso.mx> Received: from MEXICANO/MERCURYQ by mexicano.gdl.iteso.mx (Mercury 1.1); Mon, 2 Oct 95 11:03:20 -0600 From: "Hector Gonzalez Jaime." Organization: ITESO university. To: Brian Tao Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:01:52 CST Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com CC: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Someone ought to port FreeBSD to run on the PowerMac 9500... six > (or is it eight?) PCI slots, CPU daughterboard and 768 megs of RAM. > *drool* *drool* :) Why not toss another similary-equipped PC on WC's > network and round-robin FTP connections between the two? I'd love to > see a FreeBSD system be the first on the net to advertise "maximum of > 1000 simultaneous logins". :) > -- > Brian Tao > System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" I think microsoft has won that race, their ftp system told me to go away last week, they had 1250 ftp users on line. Hector Gonzalez Jaime. Iteso, Guadalajara, Mexico. cacho@mexicano.gdl.iteso.mx From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 09:36:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA09378 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:36:55 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA09368 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:36:46 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA23795; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:31:38 +1000 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:31:38 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510031631.CAA23795@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>That's what i was about to say: Jordan and David have enough items on >>their plate. So if they don't have time to implement it, somebody has >>to deal with it and make a proposal that's not only verbal, but >>accompanied by a diff -u output that would cleanly drop into the tree, > I read diff -c much easier. There should be a standard utility to convert between -u and -c. This one came with the original unidiff posting. Actually we need a diff that has been tested with many different kernel configurations. Bruce /* A filter to turn a unidiff into a degenerate context diff (no '!'s) for patch. Author: davison@dri.com (uunet!drivax!davison). */ #include #define ERR(a) {fputs(a,stderr);exit(1);} struct Ln { struct Ln *lk; char t; char s[1]; } r,*h,*ln; char *malloc(); main() { char bf[2048],*cp,ch; long os,ol,ns,nl,ne,lncnt=0; for(;;){ for(;;){ if(!fgets(bf,sizeof bf,stdin)) exit(0); lncnt++; if(!strncmp(bf,"@@ -",4)) break; if(!strncmp(bf,"+++ ",4)) printf("***%s",bf+3); else fputs(bf,stdout); } if(sscanf(bf+4,"%ld,%ld +%ld,%ld %c",&os,&ol,&ns,&nl,&ch)!=5||ch!='@') goto bad; r.lk=0, h= &r, ne=ns+nl-1; printf("***************\n*** %ld,%ld ****\n",os,os+ol-(os>0)); while(ol||nl){ if(!fgets(bf,sizeof bf,stdin)){ if(nl>2) ERR("Unexpected end of file.\n"); strcpy(bf," \n"); } lncnt++; if(*bf=='\t'||*bf=='\n') ch=' ', cp=bf; else ch= *bf, cp=bf+1; switch(ch){ case'-':if(!ol--) goto bad; printf("- %s",cp); break; case'=':ch=' '; case' ':if(!ol--) goto bad; printf(" %s",cp); case'+':if(!nl--) goto bad; ln = (struct Ln*)malloc(sizeof(*ln)+strlen(cp)); if(!ln) ERR("Out of memory!\n"); ln->lk=0, ln->t=ch, strcpy(ln->s,cp); h->lk=ln, h=ln; break; default: bad: fprintf(stderr,"Malformed unidiff at line %ld: ",lncnt); ERR(bf); } } printf("--- %ld,%ld ----\n",ns,ne); for(ln=r.lk;ln;ln=h){ printf("%c %s",ln->t,ln->s); h=ln->lk; free(ln); } } } From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 09:40:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA09777 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:40:21 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA09766 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:40:16 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA28447 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:39:14 +0100 Message-Id: <199510031639.AA28447@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:39:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: Warner Losh "Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation." (Oct 2, 20:32) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 2, 20:32, Warner Losh wrote: } Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. } How much space do the PCI drivers take up? Would it be reasonable to } assume that you either have a 4M machine with <= 486 and no PCI bus or } that you have a PCI bus machine with > 4M of memory? } } Then it would be a simple matter of two different kernels, right? The PCI code is rather small, actually ... # size pci.o pcibus.o pcisupport.o text data bss dec hex 8352 288 12 8652 21cc pci.o 2016 64 0 2080 820 pcibus.o 5344 80 16 5440 1540 pcisupport.o There are a few text tables in pci.c and pcisupport.c, which could be removed for the boot floppy kernel, but the messages are most useful in the installation phase. # size ncr.o if_de.o text data bss dec hex 17216 5024 16 22256 56f0 ncr.o 12864 32 4 12900 3264 if_de.o These are the NCR SCSI and DE Ethernet drivers (which are the only pure PCI device drivers in the GENERIC kernel. Most other PCI drivers use mostly ISA code, e.g. the Adaptec 2940, and thus don't add more than a few hundred bytes for the PCI probe code ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 09:49:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA10877 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:49:49 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA10867 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:49:46 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0t0AXA-0003w0C; Tue, 3 Oct 95 09:49 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA09094; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:49:37 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser) cc: Warner Losh , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 1995 17:39:13 +0100." <199510031639.AA28447@Sysiphos> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 17:49:36 +0100 Message-ID: <9092.812738976@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Oct 2, 20:32, Warner Losh wrote: > } Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. > } How much space do the PCI drivers take up? Would it be reasonable to > } assume that you either have a 4M machine with <= 486 and no PCI bus or > } that you have a PCI bus machine with > 4M of memory? > } > } Then it would be a simple matter of two different kernels, right? > > The PCI code is rather small, actually ... > > # size pci.o pcibus.o pcisupport.o > text data bss dec hex > 8352 288 12 8652 21cc pci.o Before you start comparing these numbers, the "bss" is not correct as far as I remember, is it ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. It will be some time yet before progress goes too far... (Poul Henningsen) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 09:51:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA11103 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:51:19 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA11090 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:51:14 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA05362 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:33:00 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17290 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:23:48 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199510031623.LAA17290@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: FreeBSD wins big as internal news server! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:23:47 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 371 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've been trying to get a FreeBSD box to provide mail, www, and news service for our internal use for some time. I finally found an old HP Vectra RS/20 (20 MHz 80386), stuck in some spare RAM from a dead Sun-3, and installed FreeBSD on it. Works like a champ. Serves news faster than the System V r3.2 multibus-2-based dual-486/33 box it's replacing. Great work, guys! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 09:52:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA11285 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:52:40 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA11273 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:52:35 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id RAA15334 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:52:28 +0100 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA16108 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:31:39 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199510031631.RAA16108@knobel.gun.de> Subject: results of cd /usr/src; time make all To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:31:39 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 557 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! With a P90, ASUS P55TP4XE, 256k burst cache, 32 MB RAM, AHA2940, Quantum Grand Prix a 'make all' in /usr/src (-stable) lasts on a normally loaded system: 6119.650u 1079.939s 2:16:26.55 87.9% 926+1039k 24468+60357io 568pf+4w Perhaps these numbers are interesting for global comparison :-)) Best regards Andreas /// -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 10:04:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA12641 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:04:54 -0700 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA12636 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:04:50 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com by mail1.digital.com; (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA21148; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:57:36 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03411; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:55:18 -0700 To: garyj@rks32.pcs.dec.com (Gary Jennejohn) Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 1995 13:34:00 EST." Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 09:55:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3409.812739318@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It would simplify and speed things up enormously if I could just grab > an uncompressed kernel with MFS already in it from somplace. Jordan, > got one laying around somewhere that I can get at (freefall) ? freefall:~jkh/MFSKERNEL Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 10:21:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA12984 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:21:23 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA12979 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:21:19 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA05550 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:02:57 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA18507; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:00:42 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:00:42 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199510031700.MAA18507@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What the competition'' is up to - just FYI. Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509271514.IAA14954@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >The source packages include pristine, untouched sources, as well as >patches and a control file which defines the building and packaging >process. This system was conceived and promoted by the BOGUS >distribution development team: Rik Faith, Doug Hoffman, and Kevin >Martin. It appears that "conceived and promoted by" means "copied from FreeBSD by". From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 10:52:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA13899 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:52:41 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13890 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:52:37 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01439; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:49:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510031749.KAA01439@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons To: serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (Sergey Shkonda) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:49:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510030921.AA06837@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> from "Sergey Shkonda" at Oct 3, 95 11:21:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 503 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > for displaying ASCII characters less than 32: > ESC[ 12 m > 'char' | 0x80 > but in case ESC[ 11 m ROM character with code 0x1b will be also > displayed when ESC[ 10 m processing I don't believe this is true. The escape character itself is (was?) eaten and therefore unavailable for display in this mode in the standard SCO console. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 10:54:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA13959 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:54:22 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13953 ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:54:16 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01465; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:53:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510031753.KAA01465@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:53:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au, serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510030842.BAA27975@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@FreeBSD.ORG" at Oct 3, 95 01:42:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 364 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The ESCx sequence is not in any of the SCO docs that I have > access to, anybody ?? No. It is a violation of ANSI sequence processing semantics and should not be implemented. Besides, SCO doesn't (didn't?) support it... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 10:55:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA14006 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:55:23 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13999 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:55:17 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01456; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:51:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510031751.KAA01456@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Some more patches to syscons To: serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (Sergey Shkonda) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:51:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510030909.AA06715@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> from "Sergey Shkonda" at Oct 3, 95 11:09:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 514 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > This patches errors in relative cursor moving when > (xpos+dx, ypos+dy) is not on screen. In this case cursor moving > to left (rigt, top, bottom) of screen. Good patch! I nearly did this one because I use "resize" all too often. It goes to ESC [ 999;999H, and does a position report to get the screen size (it expects 999;999 to be the lower right corner). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 11:07:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA14395 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:07:03 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14385 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:07:00 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA01496; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:04:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510031804.LAA01496@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: raju@rssd.hk.olivetti.com (Raju M. Daryanani) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:04:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: imp@village.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510031006.SAA29275@hk.super.net> from "Raju M. Daryanani" at Oct 3, 95 06:00:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1140 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > No, my employer at least has almost completely stopped making non-PCI ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Raju > -- > Raju M. Daryanani | Email: raju@rssd.hk.olivetti.com > Technical Support Manager | raju@hk.super.net, raju@air.org > Products Division | Tel: +852 2979 2450 / Fax: +852 2802 6650 > Olivetti (HK) Ltd. | [Finger for PGP key] [MIME understood] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You guys build MIPS boxes, right? What's the hardware documentation situation like? It looks like there is an importer of your stuff here in the US: TOP DATA, INC. They sell a box: MIPS R4400 135MHz 64Bit CPU 8K I/8K D Cache 512K L2 cache (can populate up to 2M) 64 bit "fast burst" video bus (200MB/S) Integrated SCSI II controller (on 64 bit I/O bus) Built in 32 bit ethernet (on 64 bit I/O bus) 5 ISA slots NT PS/2 mouse $2300US -no info on HD -no info on RAM Is this one of yours? Can you provide cold boot and other programming info? Are you guys building any PPC boxes? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 11:08:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA14459 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:08:08 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14453 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:08:06 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA01509; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:06:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510031806.LAA01509@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: system crash - help! To: rdm@ic.net (Rob Misiak) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:06:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Rob Misiak" at Oct 3, 95 08:51:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 520 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok, in case anyone is interested, I fixed the problem. What happened is > fsck (I think that's what did this) marked some files - including /etc/ttys > (causing the login problem) and /etc/hosts - character devices. I luckily > had the 2.0.5-release CD lying around, so I replaced all of the messed up files What do you mean "marked"... you mean "moved to lost+found"? I hope? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 11:29:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA15221 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:29:22 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA15211 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:29:18 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA28742 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:28:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199510031828.AA28742@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:28:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: Poul-Henning Kamp "Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation." (Oct 3, 17:49) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: Warner Losh , hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 3, 17:49, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: } Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. } > On Oct 2, 20:32, Warner Losh wrote: } > The PCI code is rather small, actually ... } > } > # size pci.o pcibus.o pcisupport.o } > text data bss dec hex } > 8352 288 12 8652 21cc pci.o } } Before you start comparing these numbers, the "bss" is not correct as far } as I remember, is it ? What makes you think so ? I've checked the code, and there are a total of 3 variables that seem to get put into BSS: static int pci_conf_count; static int pci_info_done; static struct pcicb *pcicb; # nm pci.o|grep ' b ' 000021c0 b _pci_conf_count 000021c4 b _pci_info_done 000021c8 b _pcicb The 288 bytes in the data segment are a few initialised variables and the PCI vendor and PCI class name tables for the probe messages ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 11:36:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA15409 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:36:52 -0700 Received: from knobel.gun.de (knobel-ip.gun.de [192.109.159.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15401 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:36:44 -0700 Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA18968; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:35:33 +0100 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:35:32 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD wins big as internal news server! In-Reply-To: <199510031623.LAA17290@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > I've been trying to get a FreeBSD box to provide mail, www, and news service > for our internal use for some time. I finally found an old HP Vectra RS/20 > (20 MHz 80386), stuck in some spare RAM from a dead Sun-3, and installed > FreeBSD on it. Works like a champ. Serves news faster than the System V r3.2 > multibus-2-based dual-486/33 box it's replacing. > > Great work, guys! Well, I'm unsure which machine to buy as proxy server in the company. I wanted to get a Sun SS 10/30 ... But a FreeBSD machine with a P100 and 64 MB RAM might be better ...:) -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 11:59:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA15954 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:59:47 -0700 Received: from knobel.gun.de (knobel-ip.gun.de [192.109.159.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15947 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:59:37 -0700 Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA19036; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:58:13 +0100 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:58:13 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: FreeBSD hackers cc: FreeBSD hackers , Jake Hamby Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-Reply-To: <199510012309.AAA17843@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > Last time i've checked the fixit floppy, many things weren't there. > Among them (offhand): > [...] > Does anyone else have wishes for the fixit floppy? Many things are already mentioned. Additional things: The device nodes for SCSI disks and tapes were missing. When trying to dump my SCSI disk I noticed, that dump was complaining about a missing /etc/dumpdates file. Trying to run a filesystem check failed, because no /etc/fstab file was there, as far as I remember. I had to mount the root filesystem (fortunately /dev/sd0a was there, the other device nodes were missing, sd0s3a...h) and to copy it manually to /etc in MFS. There seems to be no fine solution for that or you would have to create a special emergency/fixit disk, that is part of installation process. Wait ... what about the following: during end of system installation: "Would you like to update the fixit floppy with your system specific stuff ?!" Y: "please insert the fixit floppy ... bla ..." -> copying /etc/fstab, device nodes,... to fixit floppy. N: "Are you sure ? If you leave out the step of updating the fixit floppy, then you might have some difficulties later..." "Last chance: Update it or not..." -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 12:03:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA16075 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:03:13 -0700 Received: from frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (ZGIK-1-ELIS-14.4K.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA16050 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:02:30 -0700 Received: from zgik.UUCP by frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua with UUCP id UAA03236; (8.6.11/vak/1.8e) Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:58:32 +0200 Received: by relay1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (uumail v1.5/ache) id AA17082; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:35:38 +0200 Received: from bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.29]) by bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA17079 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:35:36 +0200 Received: by bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA13232 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:33:53 +0200 From: Sergey Shkonda Message-Id: <199510031833.AA13232@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: Third patch to syscons To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:33:41 +0200 (UKR) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1951 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ESC[ 11m sequence now supported: selects the first alternate font; lets ASCII characters less than 32 be displayed as ROM characters -- Serg | Relcom: (Sergey Shkonda) | serg@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua *** syscons.c Tue Oct 3 20:30:21 1995 --- syscons.c Tue Oct 3 20:30:28 1995 *************** *** 1656,1663 **** case 10: scp->term.SCOfont = 0; break; case 12: ! scp->term.SCOfont = 0x80; break; case 30: case 31: /* set fg color */ case 32: case 33: case 34: --- 1656,1666 ---- case 10: scp->term.SCOfont = 0; break; + case 11: + scp->term.SCOfont = 1; + break; case 12: ! scp->term.SCOfont = 2; break; case 30: case 31: /* set fg color */ case 32: case 33: case 34: *************** *** 1868,1877 **** len--; } else if (PRINTABLE(*ptr)) { /* Print only printables */ ! int cnt = len <= (scp->xsize-scp->xpos) ? len : (scp->xsize-scp->xpos); ! u_short cur_attr = scp->term.cur_attr; ! u_char SCOfont = scp->term.SCOfont; ! u_short *cursor_pos = scp->cursor_pos; do { *cursor_pos++ = ( (scr_map[*ptr++] ^ SCOfont) | cur_attr ); cnt--; --- 1871,1885 ---- len--; } else if (PRINTABLE(*ptr)) { /* Print only printables */ ! int cnt; ! u_short cur_attr; ! u_char SCOfont; ! u_short *cursor_pos; ! print_rom: ! cnt = len <= (scp->xsize-scp->xpos) ? len : (scp->xsize-scp->xpos); ! cur_attr = scp->term.cur_attr; ! SCOfont = (scp->term.SCOfont == 2)? 0x80 : 0x00; ! cursor_pos = scp->cursor_pos; do { *cursor_pos++ = ( (scr_map[*ptr++] ^ SCOfont) | cur_attr ); cnt--; *************** *** 1938,1943 **** --- 1946,1954 ---- scp->term.esc = 1; scp->term.num_param = 0; break; + default: + if ( scp->term.SCOfont == 1 ) + goto print_rom; } ptr++; len--; } From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 12:26:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA17501 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:26:38 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17490 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:26:31 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA28099; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 05:25:54 +1000 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 05:25:54 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510031925.FAA28099@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: phk@critter.tfs.com, se@zpr.uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, imp@village.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >} > # size pci.o pcibus.o pcisupport.o >} > text data bss dec hex >} > 8352 288 12 8652 21cc pci.o >} >} Before you start comparing these numbers, the "bss" is not correct as far >} as I remember, is it ? >What makes you think so ? It doesn't show the 68 bytes of common variables in pci.o. Anyway, device drivers are usually small (average < 10K). You would have to remove a dozen drivers to make a noticeable difference. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 12:44:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA18262 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:44:49 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18255 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:44:47 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA01362 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:44:12 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id UAA17440; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:42:08 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA15577; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:42:07 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA18785; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:41:27 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510031941.UAA18785@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:41:26 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199510031828.AA28742@Sysiphos> from "Stefan Esser" at Oct 3, 95 07:28:38 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 719 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Stefan Esser wrote: > > } Before you start comparing these numbers, the "bss" is not correct as far > } as I remember, is it ? > > What makes you think so ? That's been a general problem, as far as i remember. The .o files do not allocate the proper amount of .bss storage, this is done at link time: j@uriah 608% cat > foo.c int bar[2048]; ^D j@uriah 609% cc -c foo.c j@uriah 610% ld foo.o j@uriah 611% size foo.o a.out text data bss dec hex 0 0 0 0 0 foo.o 4096 0 8192 12288 3000 a.out -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 12:46:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA18335 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:46:47 -0700 Received: from mramirez.sy.yale.edu (mramirez.sy.yale.edu [130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18330 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:46:37 -0700 Received: (from mrami@localhost) by mramirez.sy.yale.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA10307; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:47:02 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:47:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Ramirez Reply-To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Well... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk After having accidentally blown away /home, I find that the ft driver doesn't seem to work anymore. This is on 2.1-STABLE vintage about two weeks. When doing > root[/usr]# ft|restore tf - It gives the dump info > Dump date: Sun Oct 1 12:52:00 1995 > Dumped from: the epoch > Level 0 dump of /home on mramirez.sy.yale.edu:/dev/sd1a > Label: none and proceeds to list files. After the first block (I think), it stops, I get console messages to the effect > fdc0: output ready timeout > fdc0: input ready timeout > fdc0: input ready timeout and then ft dies and I get > ... > 21440 ./mail/jian > 21774 ./jay > 21775 ./jay/.bash_history > Broken pipe > root[/usr]# Unfortunately, I can't give you much more information, because I blew away /usr, too. :) When I get resurrected, I'll start debugging. Marc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 12:59:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA18784 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:59:03 -0700 Received: from alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de (alf20.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.20.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA18763 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:58:57 -0700 Received: from deceased.hb.north.de by alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.940318) id AA28391; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:58:49 +0200 Received: from jelal.hb.north.de by deceased.hb.north.de with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1) id m0t0DUM-000ZCnC; Tue, 3 Oct 95 20:58 MET Received: by jelal.hb.north.de (SMail-ST 0.95gcc/2.5+) id AA00419; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:35:22 +0100 (CET) Received: (from nox@localhost) by saturn (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA03102 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:39:03 +0100 From: Juergen Lock Message-Id: <199510031839.TAA03102@saturn> Subject: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP kernel experiences To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:39:02 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 14244 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk First, my userland is still 2.0.5 (mostly) so i don't know if some of this is worked around there. 1. stepping over syscalls (gdb ni) sends you to DDB, and returned to the wrong address afterwards, with or without DDB. patch in i386/i386/trap.c below. 2. the linux emulator (modload'ed) still causes panics with DIAGNOSTIC, re-applied a patch posted to one of the lists... 3. and i added back struct vmtotal total, to keep xperfmon++ happy. :) Other than that it seems to honor its name, -stable... Oh, i haven't tried one thing yet: mount -t msdos a floppy with a bad block, i think in one of the FATs, caused a complete hang of all local filesystems on my previous kernel... greetings from germany, Juergen diff -ur sys/i386/i386/symbols.raw sys.2109p/i386/i386/symbols.raw --- sys/i386/i386/symbols.raw Wed Aug 23 09:24:58 1995 +++ sys.2109p/i386/i386/symbols.raw Mon Oct 2 17:09:37 1995 @@ -40,7 +40,7 @@ #vmstat _cp_time # _rate -# _total + _total # _sum # _rectime # _pgintime diff -ur sys/i386/i386/trap.c sys.2109p/i386/i386/trap.c --- sys/i386/i386/trap.c Wed Aug 23 09:31:17 1995 +++ sys.2109p/i386/i386/trap.c Mon Oct 2 15:32:40 1995 @@ -78,6 +78,11 @@ int trap_pfault __P((struct trapframe *, int)); void trap_fatal __P((struct trapframe *)); +extern inthand_t IDTVEC(syscall); +#ifdef COMPAT_LINUX +extern inthand_t IDTVEC(linux_syscall); +#endif + #define MAX_TRAP_MSG 27 char *trap_msg[] = { "", /* 0 unused */ @@ -351,14 +356,23 @@ #ifdef DDB case T_BPTFLT: +#ifndef DDB_NO_LCALLS case T_TRCTRAP: +#endif if (kdb_trap (type, 0, &frame)) return; break; -#else +#endif +#if !defined (DDB) || defined (DDB_NO_LCALLS) case T_TRCTRAP: /* trace trap -- someone single stepping lcall's */ /* Q: how do we turn it on again? */ - frame.tf_eflags &= ~PSL_T; +#ifdef COMPAT_LINUX + if (frame.tf_eip != (int) IDTVEC(syscall) && + frame.tf_eip != (int) IDTVEC(linux_syscall)) +#else + if (frame.tf_eip != IDTVEC(syscall)) +#endif + frame.tf_eflags &= ~PSL_T; return; #endif @@ -887,6 +901,15 @@ break; } +#if 1 + if (frame.tf_eflags & PSL_T) { + /* traced syscall, raise sig */ + frame.tf_eflags &= ~PSL_T; + if (ISPL(frame.tf_cs) == SEL_UPL) { + trapsignal(p, SIGTRAP, 0); + } + } +#endif userret(p, &frame, sticks); #ifdef KTRACE @@ -980,6 +1003,15 @@ break; } +#if 1 + if (frame.tf_eflags & PSL_T) { + /* traced syscall, raise sig */ + frame.tf_eflags &= ~PSL_T; + if (ISPL(frame.tf_cs) == SEL_UPL) { + trapsignal(p, SIGTRAP, 0); + } + } +#endif userret(p, &frame, sticks); #ifdef KTRACE diff -ur sys/i386/linux/linux_misc.c sys.2109p/i386/linux/linux_misc.c --- sys/i386/linux/linux_misc.c Sun Jun 25 19:32:37 1995 +++ sys.2109p/i386/linux/linux_misc.c Mon Aug 7 21:01:13 1995 @@ -188,7 +188,7 @@ printf("Linux-emul(%d): uselib(%s)\n", p->p_pid, path); #endif - NDINIT(&ni, LOOKUP, FOLLOW, UIO_SYSSPACE, path, p); + NDINIT(&ni, LOOKUP, FOLLOW | LOCKLEAF, UIO_SYSSPACE, path, p); if (error = namei(&ni)) return error; @@ -196,25 +196,39 @@ if (vnodep == NULL) return ENOEXEC; - if (vnodep->v_writecount) + if (vnodep->v_writecount) { + VOP_UNLOCK(vnodep); return ETXTBSY; + } - if (error = VOP_GETATTR(vnodep, &attr, p->p_ucred, p)) - return error; + if (error = VOP_GETATTR(vnodep, &attr, p->p_ucred, p)) { + VOP_UNLOCK(vnodep); + return error; + } if ((vnodep->v_mount->mnt_flag & MNT_NOEXEC) || ((attr.va_mode & 0111) == 0) - || (attr.va_type != VREG)) + || (attr.va_type != VREG)) { + VOP_UNLOCK(vnodep); return ENOEXEC; + } - if (attr.va_size == 0) + if (attr.va_size == 0) { + VOP_UNLOCK(vnodep); return ENOEXEC; + } - if (error = VOP_ACCESS(vnodep, VEXEC, p->p_ucred, p)) + if (error = VOP_ACCESS(vnodep, VEXEC, p->p_ucred, p)) { + VOP_UNLOCK(vnodep); return error; + } - if (error = VOP_OPEN(vnodep, FREAD, p->p_ucred, p)) + if (error = VOP_OPEN(vnodep, FREAD, p->p_ucred, p)) { + VOP_UNLOCK(vnodep); return error; + } + + VOP_UNLOCK(vnodep); /* lock no longer needed */ error = vm_mmap(kernel_map, (vm_offset_t *)&a_out, 1024, VM_PROT_READ, VM_PROT_READ, 0, (caddr_t)vnodep, 0); @@ -225,7 +239,7 @@ * Is it a Linux binary ? */ if (((a_out->a_magic >> 16) & 0xff) != 0x64) - return -1; + return ENOEXEC; /* * Set file/virtual offset based on a.out variant. @@ -240,7 +254,7 @@ file_offset = 0; break; default: - return (-1); + return ENOEXEC; } vnodep->v_flag |= VTEXT; diff -ur sys/sys/vmmeter.h sys.2109p/sys/vmmeter.h --- sys/sys/vmmeter.h Fri Sep 15 12:20:10 1995 +++ sys.2109p/sys/vmmeter.h Mon Oct 2 17:13:58 1995 @@ -111,6 +111,9 @@ long t_armshr; /* active shared real memory */ long t_free; /* free memory pages */ }; +#ifdef KERNEL +struct vmtotal total; +#endif /* * Optional instrumentation. # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # GENERIC,v 1.45.2.3 1995/06/05 21:50:41 jkh Exp # machine "i386" cpu "I386_CPU" cpu "I486_CPU" cpu "I586_CPU" ident SPIIIGII maxusers 64 options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=5" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options "BROKEN_KEYBOARD_RESET" options DDB_NO_LCALLS #dont enter ddb on gdb ni over lcall config kernel root on wd0 ##################################################################### # COMPATIBILITY OPTIONS # # Implement system calls compatible with 4.3BSD and older versions of # FreeBSD. # options "COMPAT_43" # # Allow user-mode programs to manipulat their local descriptor tables. # This option is required for the WINE Windows(tm) emulator, and is # not used by anything else (that we know of). # options USER_LDT #allow user-level control of i386 ldt # options "COMPAT_LINUX" # # These three options provide support for System V Interface # Definition-style interprocess communication, in the form of shared # memory, semaphores, and message queues, respectively. # options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG ##################################################################### # DEBUGGING OPTIONS # # Enable the kernel debugger. # options DDB # # KTRACE enables the system-call tracing facility ktrace(2). # options KTRACE #kernel tracing # # The DIAGNOSTIC option is used in a number of source files to enable # extra sanity checking of internal structures. This support is not # enabled by default because of the extra time it would take to check # for these conditions, which can only occur as a result of # programming errors. # options DIAGNOSTIC # # Allow ordinary users to take the console - this is useful for X. options UCONSOLE controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 controller ncr0 controller ahc0 #controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr controller ahc1 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahcintr controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr #controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr #controller nca1 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr #controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr device wt0 at isa? port 0x280 bio irq 3 drq 1 vector wtintr #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 vector mcdintr #device mcd1 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector mcdintr #controller matcd0 at isa? port ? bio #device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # # Options for `sc': # # HARDFONTS allows the driver to load an ISO-8859-1 font to replace # the default font in your display adapter's memory. # options HARDFONTS # # MAXCONS is maximum number of virtual consoles, no more than 16 # default value: 12 # #options "MAXCONS=16" #options "COM_MULTIPORT" # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 #options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr #device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM3" tty flags 0x285 device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device sio2 at isa? port "IO_COM3" tty irq 5 vector siointr # S3 gfx card, no sio3... #device sio3 at isa? port "IO_COM4" tty irq 9 vector siointr # and sio2 shares int w sio0 (needs options "COM_MULTIPORT") #device sio2 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty flags 0x285 irq 4 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device lpt1 at isa? port? tty device lpt2 at isa? port? tty # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. device de0 device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ie0 at isa? port 0x360 net irq 7 iomem 0xd0000 vector ieintr device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr #device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 vector le_intr #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device lnc1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector zpintr # # Audio drivers: `snd', `sb', `pas', `gus', `pca' # # snd: Voxware sound support code # sb: SoundBlaster PCM - SoundBlaster, SB Pro, SB16, ProAudioSpectrum # sbxvi: SoundBlaster 16 # sbmidi: SoundBlaster 16 MIDI interface # pas: ProAudioSpectrum PCM and MIDI # gus: Gravis Ultrasound - Ultrasound, Ultrasound 16, Ultrasound MAX # gusxvi: Gravis Ultrasound 16-bit PCM # gusmax: Gravis Ultrasound MAX (currently broken) # mss: Microsoft Sound System # opl: Yamaha OPL-2 and OPL-3 FM - SB, SB Pro, SB 16, ProAudioSpectrum # uart: stand-alone 6850 UART for MIDI # mpu: Roland MPU-401 stand-alone card # # Beware! The addresses specified below are also hard-coded in # i386/isa/sound/sound_config.h. If you change the values here, you # must also change the values in the include file. # # pca: PCM audio through your PC speaker # # If you don't have a lpt0 device at IRQ 7, you can remove the # ``conflicts'' specification in the appropriate device entries below. # # Controls all sound devices controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 7 conflicts drq 1 vector sbintr device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 device pas0 at isa? port 0x388 irq 10 drq 6 vector pasintr device gus0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 11 drq 1 vector gusintr device gusxvi0 at isa? port 0x530 irq 7 conflicts drq 3 vector adintr device gusmax0 at isa? port 0x32c device mss0 at isa? port 0x530 irq 10 drq 1 vector adintr device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 device mpu0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 6 drq 0 device uart0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 5 vector "m6850intr" # Not controlled by `snd' device pca0 at isa? port IO_TIMER1 tty pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 1 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device tun 1 #pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device pty 32 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) pseudo-device snp 10 #Snoop device - to look at pty/vty/etc.. #options NSIP #XNS over IP #options LLC #X.25 link layer for Ethernets #options HDLC #X.25 link layer for serial lines # broken #options EON #ISO CLNP over IP # # Internet family options: # # TCP_COMPAT_42 causes the TCP code to emulate certain bugs present in # 4.2BSD. This option should not be used unless you have a 4.2BSD # machine and TCP connections fail. # # GATEWAY allows the machine to forward packets, and also configures # larger static sizes of a number of system tables. # # MROUTING enables the kernel multicast packet forwarder, which works # with mrouted(8). # # IPFIREWALL enables support for IP firewall construction, in # conjunction with the `ipfw' program. IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE does # the obvious thing. # IPACCT enables IP accounting. # # ARP_PROXYALL enables global proxy ARP. Beware! This can burn # your house down! See netinet/if_ether.c for the gory details. # (Eventually there will be a better management interface.) # #options "TCP_COMPAT_42" #emulate 4.2BSD TCP bugs options GATEWAY #internetwork gateway #options MROUTING # Multicast routing options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about #options IPACCT #ipaccounting # dropped packets #options ARP_PROXYALL # global proxy ARP From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 13:13:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19691 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:13:23 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19682 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:13:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA29381; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:12:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199510032012.OAA29381@rover.village.org> To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Cc: raju@rssd.hk.olivetti.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 03 Oct 1995 11:04:19 PDT Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 14:12:53 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : Is this one of yours? Can you provide cold boot and other programming : info? Terry, I think that you can get most of the information that you need from the ARCBIOS spec. Unfortunately, these are rather hard to come by. The Linux croud is doing well w/o a whole lot of information about their machines (I know that my MIPS box has almost no docs, and very little technical support). If you have one of these boxes, you should contact that list (linux-mips@fnet.fr). They have made great progress on the Magnums, which are, if memory serves, an Olivetti machine. They have people with that machine and they have docs from Olivetti. Maybe you can get docs from them? Drop me a line if you are interested... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 13:16:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20084 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:16:46 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20072 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:16:38 -0700 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA13993 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 16:21:09 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 16:21:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199510032021.QAA13993@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> for displaying ASCII characters less than 32: >> ESC[ 12 m >> 'char' | 0x80 >> but in case ESC[ 11 m ROM character with code 0x1b will be also >> displayed when ESC[ 10 m processing > >I don't believe this is true. The escape character itself is (was?) >eaten and therefore unavailable for display in this mode in the standard >SCO console. Will someone please dig up the patch I sent in 3 months ago that fixed a boot problem with no keyboard. It STILL isn't in there, and I'm getting tired of doing it manually every time I load. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 14:26:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAB24417 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:26:40 -0700 Received: from thing.sunquest.com (thing.Sunquest.COM [149.138.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAB24404 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:26:29 -0700 From: tony@thing.sunquest.com Received: by thing.sunquest.com; id AA20987; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:22:16 -0700 Message-Id: <9510032122.AA20987@thing.sunquest.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Rand MH v6.7 Transport-Options: /nodelivery/return Subject: MBR/Win95/IDE (3 questions) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 14:22:16 -0700 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've asked these questions -questions twice before, never got a reply. Sorry, if it's inappropriate for -hackers. -- mbr -- I read the diskspace FAQ (have made bootable root recovery floppies etc from scratch), but I'm still unsure on exactly how the FreeBSD bootloader works :-) Is there any docs on the bootloader other than the diskspace FAQ ? Pretty clear on the basics - whatever MBR slice is marked active (0x80) on the C disc (a SCSI in my case) gets it's boot sector loaded in. However, when the FreeBSD bootloader prompts me for a choice, where does it get this info from ? Does the information on other bootable selections come from the FreeBSD bootloader rescanning the MBR, or is there some configuration file I'm missing (I think the former, though since I can't find any documentation [maybe I'm not looking in the right place] I guess there could be some other config file I'm missing) -- win95 -- I've heard a lot of people complaining about not being able to configure Win95 and FreeBSD via the FreeBSD bootloader. Has anyone been able to do this ? Any similar problems with FreeBSD and NT ? -- IDE -- I'm currently 100% SCSI, but will likely be getting El Cheapo EIDE disc for Windoze. If the bios boots from the IDE disc, which I think is the default (I'll clearly need the FreeBSD bootloader on the IDE disk) does this imply that the boot default (if I don't select a device) will have to be a slice on the IDE disk (i.e Windoze, not FreeBSD). Basically back to the above question of how the boot loader works, how (if at all) I can configure it. I'd like the default to always be boot FreeBSD, even if I the bios boots IDE. Otherwise, I guess I'm looking at disabling IDE booting in the BIOS, and then see if the FreeBSD boot loader from the SCSI disc will be able to boot Windoze off the IDE disc. Anyone got any advice/comments/pointers to documentation ? Thanks! tony From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 14:53:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA25665 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:53:45 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25651 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:53:33 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02081; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:51:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510032151.OAA02081@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: MBR/Win95/IDE (3 questions) To: tony@thing.sunquest.com Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:51:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9510032122.AA20987@thing.sunquest.com> from "tony@thing.sunquest.com" at Oct 3, 95 02:22:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3910 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > However, when the FreeBSD bootloader prompts me for a choice, where does it > get this info from ? Does the information on other bootable selections come > from the FreeBSD bootloader rescanning the MBR, or is there some configuration > file I'm missing (I think the former, though since I can't find any > documentation [maybe I'm not looking in the right place] I guess there could > be some other config file I'm missing) It gets the information from the partition table in the MBR (it is a replacement for the DOS MBR, so it contains the partition table). It has a table of partition ID to OS name translations. That is how it puts up the menu. It will also allow you to boot to a second drive (0x81). Assuming your BIOS doesn't break DX, which is where the boot drive information is passed, a boot sector loaded from the second ("D:") drive can be a regular boot sector, or also a boot loader. If DX is corrupted (some AMI BIOS, etc.), then you can only boot from the first drive unless you start hacking OS specific boot records. The boot selector on FreeBSD is not actually part of the OS. When you select a partition from the menu (or the partition is autoselected by using a DOS/Win95 MBR by looking for the 0x80 flag bit in the partition table to pick the active drive), the loader loads the OS specific boot record from the partition. For BSD, this is the boot record that disklabel puts out there. That, in turn, uses the DX register to identify the drive, finds the BSD partition in the partition table, and knows how to read the disklabel itself to find "/" (slice 'a'), and knows how to read a directory (but not a subdirectory) to find the kernel. Then it reads in the kernel, sets protected mode, and jumps to the kernel's '_main' ( 'btext' in locore.s in /sys/i386/i386), which in turn calls main (in init_main.c in /sys/kern). And then you are running. > I've heard a lot of people complaining about not being able to configure > Win95 and FreeBSD via the FreeBSD bootloader. Has anyone been able to do > this ? > Any similar problems with FreeBSD and NT ? I have had no problems with either. Win95 when it is installed replaces the boot loader basically to get the message "Starting Windows 95" in place of "Loading MSDOS". It's a cosmetic change. When this happens, it will blow over any other MBR boot selector you have. > I'm currently 100% SCSI, but will likely be getting El Cheapo EIDE disc for > Windoze. Don't buy an RZ1000 based IDE controller until Intel fixes the chips. I don't see a difference in SCSI and IDE prices any more anyway. For big drives, SCSI is 1.3->2 times cheaper (plus EIDE doesn't have *really* big drives yet). > If the bios boots from the IDE disc, which I think is the default (I'll > clearly need the FreeBSD bootloader on the IDE disk) does this imply > that the boot default (if I don't select a device) will have to be a > slice on the IDE disk (i.e Windoze, not FreeBSD). If you have an IDE disk and a SCSI disk, to boot FreeBSD from the SCSI disk if the IDE is the first in the INT 13 chain, you will have to hack both the boot loader and the files locore.s and autoconf.c (to set the ddevice numbers, since the DX register only supports 0x80 and 0x81 drive ID's) in /sys/i386/i386, then rebuild a kernel. Or boot from floppy, giving explicit device names. > Basically back to the above question of how the boot loader works, how (if > at all) I can configure it. > I'd like the default to always be boot FreeBSD, even if I the bios boots IDE. Good luck, you'll need it. > Otherwise, I guess I'm looking at disabling IDE booting in the BIOS, and then > see if the FreeBSD boot loader from the SCSI disc will be able to boot > Windoze off the IDE disc. Yep. Or using a floppy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 15:30:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA27404 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:30:45 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27399 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:30:43 -0700 Received: from robot-research.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzjxi26313; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:30:37 -0400 Received: from cc:Mail SMTPLINK 2.1 by robot-research.com id AA812758830; Tue, 03 Oct 95 15:23:35 PST Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 15:23:35 PST From: "ROBERT" Encoding: 12 Text Message-Id: <9509038127.AA812758830@robot-research.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: routing to serial port Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I'm trying to figure out if I can set up my FBSD box to accept telnet connections to an IP address assigned to its serial port. I want to telnet there and have it raise DTR so my unit attached to the port will start transmitting data. I want that data to be routed to the machine I am telnetting in from. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am not able to get news groups so an E-Mail response would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Robert Whyte robert.whyte@robot-research.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 15:45:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA27911 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:45:19 -0700 Received: from kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br [143.106.13.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27862 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:43:29 -0700 Received: (from vazquez@localhost) by kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA06257 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:52:36 GMT From: Pedro A M Vazquez Message-Id: <199510031852.SAA06257@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Subject: FreeBSD NIS-client and SUN NIS+ in yp-compatability mode (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:52:34 +0000 () Organization: Instituto de Quimica Unicamp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1584 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello Could someone help this guy? He's moving to Linux because he can't make his FreeBSD nis client talk to the Sun NIS+ master Pedro > From: Andries J. Algera > Subject: FreeBSD NIS-client and SUN NIS+ in yp-compatability mode > [...] > > I just installed FreeBSD-2.05a and was planning to use the FreeBSD > nisclient for autentication with a SUN NIS+ server in > "YP-compatibilitymode". > > Using ypcat on the FreeBSD machine, I managed to browse through the > various NIS-maps. However when it comes to logging in, I get the > following error message: > > yp_order: clnt_call: RPC: Procedure unavailable > > As FreeBSD doesn't have a manual page for the function yp_order, I had a > look at the page that comes with SUNOS-5.3., and read the following: > > yp_order(char *indomain, char *inmap, int *outorder); > yp_order() returns the order number for a map. This > function is not supported if the ypbind process on the client's > system is bound to an NIS+ server running in > "YP-compatibility mode". > > Is this a known porblem? If so, is there already a new version of the > NIS-client that works with a NIS+ server in yp-compatibility mode that I > could test. > > Before hand thanks for reading and hopefully answering my message. > > Cheers, > > Andries > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Andries Algera > CSR - IBAMA > ph: +5561 316-1218 > 316-1219 > 316-1220 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 15:57:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA28369 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:57:41 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA28353 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:57:32 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA14949; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:51:23 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510032321.IAA14949@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com To: CACHO@mexicano.gdl.iteso.mx (Hector Gonzalez Jaime.) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:51:22 +0930 (CST) Cc: taob@io.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510021701.LAA10355@cecusac.gdl.iteso.mx> from "Hector Gonzalez Jaime." at Oct 2, 95 11:01:52 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 981 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hector Gonzalez Jaime. stands accused of saying: > > network and round-robin FTP connections between the two? I'd love to > > see a FreeBSD system be the first on the net to advertise "maximum of > > 1000 simultaneous logins". :) > > -- > > Brian Tao > > I think microsoft has won that race, their ftp system told me to go > away last week, they had 1250 ftp users on line. Yah, but have you tried to use it past the 600 mark? Whatever it is just loses its marbles as far as long-distance connections are concerned. (At least, that's been my experience) > Hector Gonzalez Jaime. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 16:18:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA29937 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 16:18:23 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29932 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 16:18:20 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA04975; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 16:17:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199510032317.QAA04975@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Michael Smith cc: CACHO@mexicano.gdl.iteso.mx (Hector Gonzalez Jaime.), taob@io.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 1995 08:51:22 +0930." <199510032321.IAA14949@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 16:17:26 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Michael Smith said: > Hector Gonzalez Jaime. stands accused of saying: > > > network and round-robin FTP connections between the two? I'd love to > > > see a FreeBSD system be the first on the net to advertise "maximum of > > > 1000 simultaneous logins". :) > > > -- > > > Brian Tao > > > > I think microsoft has won that race, their ftp system told me to go > > away last week, they had 1250 ftp users on line. > > Yah, but have you tried to use it past the 600 mark? Whatever it is just > loses its marbles as far as long-distance connections are concerned. > (At least, that's been my experience) > > > Hector Gonzalez Jaime. > Does anyone know the OS and platform which the +1000 plus ftp site is running? If I am not mistaken some of their web sites are running BSDI .... Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 17:08:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA01474 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:08:39 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA01469 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:08:37 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA10482; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:03:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199510040003.RAA10482@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Michael Smith , CACHO@mexicano.gdl.iteso.mx (Hector Gonzalez Jaime.), taob@io.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 1995 16:17:26 PDT." <199510032317.QAA04975@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 17:03:14 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Does anyone know the OS and platform which the +1000 plus ftp site is running? > >If I am not mistaken some of their web sites are running BSDI .... > > Amancio According to their own docs, the www server/gopher server is a dual pentium 66 compaq machine running NT. I would guess that their ftp machine is the same. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 17:15:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA01649 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:15:42 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA01644 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:15:39 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00329 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:15:38 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510040015.RAA00329@ref.tfs.com> Subject: freebsd and Solaris Ifaliasing To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:15:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 351 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a need to alias a couple of interfaces which is ok on FreeBSD but I also have to do it under Solaris. (well I can do without it but it's going to be a pain) is this possible? does the BSD4.4 multiple addresses per interface work on solaris? I've heard it does but with a differnt syntax and can't find a reference anywhere.. pointers? julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 17:53:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA05088 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:53:27 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA05065 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:53:21 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA11411 ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:53:18 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id BAA17287 ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:53:18 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id BAA28731; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:42:27 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199510040042.BAA28731@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: results of cd /usr/src; time make all To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:42:26 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510031631.RAA16108@knobel.gun.de> from "Andreas Klemm" at Oct 3, 95 05:31:39 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1165 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Andreas Klemm said: > With a P90, ASUS P55TP4XE, 256k burst cache, 32 MB RAM, AHA2940, > Quantum Grand Prix a 'make all' in /usr/src (-stable) lasts > on a normally loaded system: > > 6119.650u 1079.939s 2:16:26.55 87.9% 926+1039k 24468+60357io 568pf+4w I hate you. It takes a little more than 10h on my 486DX-33, EISA, 32 MB, BT747S + AHA-1740, without profiled libraries. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sun Oct 1 14:44:30 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 18:34:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08666 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:34:42 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08647 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:34:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id CAA01494 ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:27:03 +0100 To: Michael Smith cc: "Hector Gonzalez Jaime." , taob@io.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 1995 08:51:22 +0930." <199510032321.IAA14949@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 02:26:59 +0100 Message-ID: <1492.812770019@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith stands accused of writing in message ID <199510032321.IAA14949@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>: >> I think microsoft has won that race, their ftp system told me to go >> away last week, they had 1250 ftp users on line. >Yah, but have you tried to use it past the 600 mark? Whatever it is just >loses its marbles as far as long-distance connections are concerned. >(At least, that's been my experience) The problem is what network link you have really. If you can get a fast enough network connection (perhaps FDDI or 100bTX), you should in theory be able to handle that number without TOO many problems. Of course, you'll always have problems with people a couple of hops away on a fast link swamping your network :-( Anyone know a way to do traffic limiting? Is it even fair? Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 18:35:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08798 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:35:29 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08784 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:35:26 -0700 Received: from ast.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzjxu13837; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:35:23 -0400 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA04960 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:35:22 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Tue, 3 Oct 95 20:33 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #19) id m0t0Iej-000J6zC; Tue, 3 Oct 95 20:29 WET DST Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 20:29 WET DST To: tony@thing.sunquest.com, hackers@freebsd.org From: uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Tue Oct 3 1995, 20:29:57 CDT Subject: MBR/Win95/IDE (3 questions) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [0]-- win95 -- [0]I've heard a lot of people complaining about not being able to configure [0]Win95 and FreeBSD via the FreeBSD bootloader. Has anyone been able to do [0]this ? [0]Any similar problems with FreeBSD and NT ? Mine works fine. Here was the procedure I used: Started with disk with no partitions, booted a MS-DOS 6.2 (or later). Used FDISK to define part of disk I wanted Microsoft to use. Rebooted and installed MS-DOS. Then booted from the hard disk, installed Windows '95 (mine was from CD-ROM). Once Windows '95 was installed, loaded a *real* operating system by booting FreeBSD 2.0.5R from boot floppy. Installed FreeBSD 2.0.5R using remainder of disk, selected default boot manager. Now when I boot, press [F2] for FreeBSD. It says "F1 dos", but if you press [F1] you will boot Windows '95. If you really want DOS, press [F1] and as soon as it says "Starting Windows '95", press [F5] several times. Of course, Windows '95 has replaced DOS 6.x with DOS 7, but other than that things work fine. On another system, I had DOS 7, Windows 3.11 and Windows '95 all in the DOS partition, plus FreeBSD 2.0.5R. All four systems are usable by pushing the right keys during or after booting. I have always found installing FreeBSD *first* on a hard disk and then trying to get Microsoft products to co-exist to be very difficult. Windows '95 also seems to be confused by the validity of non-MS partitions, although it doesn't silently wipe them out anymore like it did in the Beta releases. [0]-- IDE -- [0]I'm currently 100% SCSI, but will likely be getting El Cheapo EIDE disc for [0]Windoze. [0] [0]If the bios boots from the IDE disc, which I think is the default [0](I'll clearly need the FreeBSD bootloader on the IDE disk) does this [0]imply that the boot default (if I don't select a device) will have to be [0]a slice on the IDE disk (i.e Windoze, not FreeBSD). On 99% of the systems out there, you must have a bootable partition ("active") on the IDE drive, and to do a two-way boot, the active partition needs to be something other than a DOS partition. (FYI, Microsoft knows calls divisions of the hard disk "partitions" - "slices" are a FreeBSDish creation.) You can put a very tiny FreeBSD partition that then lets you boot from SCSI (or even a second IDE drive). Or just put your root partition over on the IDE drive. Root is supposed to be small. [0]Basically back to the above question of how the boot loader works, how (if [0]at all) I can configure it. I'd like the default to always be boot [0]FreeBSD, even if I the bios boots IDE. [0] [0]Otherwise, I guess I'm looking at disabling IDE booting in the BIOS, [0]and then see if the FreeBSD boot loader from the SCSI disc will be [0]able to boot Windoze off the IDE disc. As far as I know, there are only a few systems that allow IDE devices to be present and the boot device to *NOT* be IDE. The BIOSes that support this scheme cheat and look at the primary IDE drive and if no partitions are marked active, the BIOS will pretend there was no IDE and let SCSI take over. These BIOSes are *VERY* rare, and I have only seen them in systems with integrated IDE and SCSI interfaces. There is usually a CMOS setup option that says "Boot from IDE Y/N". Frank Durda IV uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com "Using the net, you can see a picture of Pikes Peak, which is updated every hour, or a picture of Bill Gates' house, which is updated once a week. The difference is that Pikes Peak doesn't move, but they keep having to move the camera further back at Bill's place." :-) - (C) 1995 FDIV From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 18:49:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA11470 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:49:23 -0700 Received: from hk.super.net (root@hk.super.net [202.14.67.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11463 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:49:12 -0700 Received: from rssd.hk.olivetti.com (rssd.hk.olivetti.com [202.64.192.5]) by hk.super.net (8.7.1/8.7) with SMTP id JAA22357 for <@hk.super.net:hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:48:05 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <199510040148.JAA22357@hk.super.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:42:34 +0800 (HKT) From: "Raju M. Daryanani" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510031804.LAA01496@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 3, 95 11:04:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > You guys build MIPS boxes, right? What's the hardware documentation Not any more as far as I'm aware. There were two ACE compliant MIPS models that were released a couple of years ago, but they never went anywhere after ACE fell apart and we dropped them. > Is this one of yours? Can you provide cold boot and other programming > info? I don't have anything myself, so I can't help. Besides I doubt you can buy many boxes even if there are still a few in stock. > Are you guys building any PPC boxes? No, I've been told there aren't any plans. We do have a stake in Power Computing, which was the first company to license MacOS for the PPC, but the stake was obtained a long time back and there is no plan to enter the PPC market. If you've been reading the industry news of late you probably know we've got enough problems in the PC market to keep us busy. Raju -- Raju M. Daryanani | Email: raju@rssd.hk.olivetti.com Technical Support Manager | raju@hk.super.net, raju@air.org Products Division | Tel: +852 2979 2450 / Fax: +852 2802 6650 Olivetti (HK) Ltd. | [Finger for PGP key] [MIME understood] From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 19:38:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA14162 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:38:34 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA14157 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:38:27 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA00277; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:35:24 -0400 From: A boy and his worm gear Message-Id: <199510040235.WAA00277@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD NIS-client and SUN NIS+ in yp-compatability mode (fwd) To: vazquez@iqm.unicamp.br (Pedro A M Vazquez) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, andries@csr-lpf.ibama.gov.br In-Reply-To: <199510031852.SAA06257@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> from "Pedro A M Vazquez" at Oct 3, 95 06:52:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2393 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Pedro A M Vazquez had to walk into mine and say: > Hello > > Could someone help this guy? He's moving to Linux because he can't > make his FreeBSD nis client talk to the Sun NIS+ master > Pedro > > > From: Andries J. Algera > > Subject: FreeBSD NIS-client and SUN NIS+ in yp-compatability mode > > > [...] [chop] > > Using ypcat on the FreeBSD machine, I managed to browse through the > > various NIS-maps. However when it comes to logging in, I get the > > following error message: > > > > yp_order: clnt_call: RPC: Procedure unavailable Already reported and fixed in both 2.1 and -current. I foolishly used yp_order() to test for the presence of the master.passwd.byname 'shadow' map since yp_order() seemed to be the least complicated and fastest NIS function to use. Since I don't run NIS+, I didn't realize that NIS+ doesn't support the yp_order() procedure until it was too late. Unfortunately, fixing this requires rebuilding libc. If you feel up to it, you can download a new copy of /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c from a handy FTP site. > > As FreeBSD doesn't have a manual page for the function yp_order, I was hoping to document all of the YP client functions, but other obligations (read: my job) have been consuming all my time. > > Is this a known porblem? Yes. > > If so, is there already a new version of the > > NIS-client that works with a NIS+ server in yp-compatibility mode that I > > could test. Again, you need a new libc. If you want to try the latest 2.1 snapshot, that should work correctly. I changed the library function that did the test to use yp_first() instead of yp_order(). This was actually fixed some time ago. > > Before hand thanks for reading and hopefully answering my message. Hope this helps. > > Cheers, > > > > Andries -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~ "Welcome to All Things BSDish! If it's not BSDish, it's crap!" ~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 20:21:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA15559 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:21:52 -0700 Received: from knobel.gun.de (knobel-ip.gun.de [192.109.159.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA15552 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:21:46 -0700 Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA23728 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 04:21:03 +0100 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 04:20:58 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c, AHC_TAGENABLE, QUEUE_FULL_SUPPORTED Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! Are the above mentioned flags useable without crashing the system ? Would it bring more speed on the SCSI bus ? What exactly does TAGENABLE ? I hera very often about xommand tag enable and such, but don't know exactly, what it means. Would be nice if somebody could shortly explain it to me and report about stability in -stable kernel. Thanks Andreas /// -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 20:45:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA16173 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:45:48 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA16168 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:45:43 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA03953; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:45:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:45:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I'm going through the 2.1.0-950928-SNAP installation process right now on a 486DX2/66 beside me. So far, I'm even more impressed that I was with the (then) revamped 2.0.5 installer. :) * I like the newbie-friendly "Hit `A' to get default partition values for FreeBSD" in the slice editor. It even puts in a decent amount of swap. :) What I'd like to see is default values supplied for mount points for manual installation, the way BSD/OS does it. The first partition defaults to /, the second is swap, the third is /usr, the fourth is /var, the fifth is /home, etc. Doesn't have to be in that order, but it would be a nice touch. * The information dialogs between each section of the Express installation is a great idea! Again, more newbie-aware. :) * I'm using the entire disk (a 540-meg Maxtor SCSI, noisy as hell, this thing), bypassing whatever sanity checks are in the BIOS, according to the warning. I'll see how that works... * So far, not a single problem (almost done installing the kernel sources to disk via FTP)... * The timezone setting thing still doesn't seem right, for some reason... I'll have to go back and fiddle with it some more. I usually just make the /etc/localtime link myself and let ntpdate/timed take care of the clock setting. No real problems that I can see on my first try with this snapshot. Nice work, Jordan. -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 21:13:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA17248 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:13:55 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA17242 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:13:49 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA06022; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:13:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:13:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Brian Tao wrote: > > No real problems that I can see on my first try with this > snapshot. Nice work, Jordan. Oops, one really minor sticky point... when I go to reboot the system after the installation, I get the "Syncing disks message", but nothing else. I can't flip around to the other virtual consoles to check for misplaced messages, nor does a Ctrl-Alt-Del work. Had to hit the hardware reset. This is on a (AFAIK) pretty standard ASUS SP3G motherboard with an Intel 486DX2/66 CPU and 64 megs of RAM. Nothing to get excited over, but I thought I'd mention it. -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 21:31:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA17567 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:31:01 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA17561 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:30:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id FAA01959 ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 05:29:51 +0100 To: Brian Tao cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 1995 00:13:45 EDT." Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 05:29:46 +0100 Message-ID: <1957.812780986@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao stands accused of writing in message ID : >On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Brian Tao wrote: > Oops, one really minor sticky point... when I go to reboot the >system after the installation, I get the "Syncing disks message", but >nothing else. I can't flip around to the other virtual consoles to >check for misplaced messages, nor does a Ctrl-Alt-Del work. Had to >hit the hardware reset. This is on a (AFAIK) pretty standard ASUS >SP3G motherboard with an Intel 486DX2/66 CPU and 64 megs of RAM. >Nothing to get excited over, but I thought I'd mention it. This is a known problem. For some reason, the ``Syncing disks...'' message goes on one VTY, and the ``Press any key to reset'' messages goes on another. It drove Jordan nuts during the 2.0.5 release process, and he obviously hasn't found a fix yet (if a fix is possible). I'm slightly surprised your attempts to switch VTY's didn't trigger a reboot. Perhaps the - combos are still trapped and ignored as being keypresses? Certainly, pressing the space bar works (or used to). Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 21:36:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA17673 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:36:15 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA17668 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:36:11 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA18782; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:34:45 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA00321; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:36:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199510040436.VAA00321@corbin.Root.COM> To: Brian Tao cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 95 00:13:45 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:36:05 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Brian Tao wrote: >> >> No real problems that I can see on my first try with this >> snapshot. Nice work, Jordan. > > Oops, one really minor sticky point... when I go to reboot the >system after the installation, I get the "Syncing disks message", but >nothing else. I can't flip around to the other virtual consoles to >check for misplaced messages, nor does a Ctrl-Alt-Del work. Had to >hit the hardware reset. This is on a (AFAIK) pretty standard ASUS >SP3G motherboard with an Intel 486DX2/66 CPU and 64 megs of RAM. >Nothing to get excited over, but I thought I'd mention it. Try just pressing "Enter". The machine actually does a 'halt', not a reboot, and it needs a before it will reboot. I don't think virtual console switching works at this stage, either, which explains why the machine appears dead. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 22:28:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA19310 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:28:57 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA19305 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:28:55 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11247; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:28:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199510040528.WAA11247@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 1995 00:13:45 EDT." Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 22:28:27 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Brian Tao wrote: > > Oops, one really minor sticky point... when I go to reboot the >system after the installation, I get the "Syncing disks message", but >nothing else. I just had to hit the space bar. >-- >Brian Tao >System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. >"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 22:56:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA20566 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:56:22 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA20561 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:56:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15586; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:56:11 -0700 To: Brian Tao cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 1995 23:45:31 EDT." Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 22:56:11 -0700 Message-ID: <15584.812786171@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm going through the 2.1.0-950928-SNAP installation process right > now on a 486DX2/66 beside me. So far, I'm even more impressed that I > was with the (then) revamped 2.0.5 installer. :) Thanks! If you're not sick of installs yet, I wouldn't mind some feedback on the next snap, which should feature the last of my planned sysinstall renovations for 2.1. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 22:57:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA20631 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:57:35 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA20626 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:57:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA16029; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:57:23 -0700 To: Brian Tao cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 1995 00:13:45 EDT." Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 22:57:23 -0700 Message-ID: <16026.812786243@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Oops, one really minor sticky point... when I go to reboot the > system after the installation, I get the "Syncing disks message", but > nothing else. I can't flip around to the other virtual consoles to That's the same as it was in 2.0.5. You have to hit an extra "return" before it will reset. Silly bugger. I have no idea how to make it not hang there, and I've tried a number of different things, too.. Sigh! I'll make sure this is at least documented.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 23:04:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA20846 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:04:43 -0700 Received: from rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu (rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu [130.207.199.83]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA20837 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:04:39 -0700 Received: (from ken@localhost) by rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA21102 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:04:18 -0400 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199510040604.CAA21102@rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu> Subject: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP initial experiences To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:04:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2298 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, I installed 2.1.0-950928-SNAP on 2 P-100's tonight, and it went off like a charm. Just as a data point: Both have ASUS PCI/I-P55TP4XE motherboards, Pentium 100's, ASUS SC-200 NCR controllers, SMC PCI ethernet cards. One has 8 megs, the other 16. Both have 1 gig Fujitsu drives. We did the install via ftp from a machine on the local network. Anyway, we've been having a strange problem with telnetd: {foo:/usr/home/ken:25} telnet localhost Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost.residence.gatech.edu. Escape character is '^]'. ld.so failed: Undefined symbol "_encrypt_debug_mode" in telnetd:telnetd Connection closed by foreign host. That same problem comes up when telneting into the box from anywhere. (Solaris, localhost, 2.0.5 boxes, IRIX 5.2...) rlogind doesn't seem to be affected by that problem. Any idea what's wrong? I installed the DES stuff, but not any of the Kerberos or eBones stuff. Another thing...the timezone config seems to be wrong, at least in what it tells you. (i.e. you give it local time, it thinks local time is GMT or something, and spits back local time minus your GMT offset or something....my mind is kinda fuzzy on that one right now...) The install looks pretty good, overall. I've got one minor nit, besides the timezone stuff. I went through the paritioning stuff, created a BSD partition, and used the 'w' option to write it out. Then I went to the disklabel stuff, and when I tried to write it out, I think it said it couldn't write out the root partition, and spit out some kind of error message. I had to back out to the previous menu, and chose the 'commit' option in order to get sysinstall to properly disklabel and newfs the drives. After that, though, it worked just fine. Anyway, I hope this helps debug things before the release. Take the install stuff with a grain of salt...(I'm damn tired) but the telnetd problem is easily reproducible. Overall, the install is pretty nice, and things look pretty good. The machines I installed it on belong to two FreeBSD newbies (they aren't afraid to try things out, though). They were very impressed with the ports stuff. (IMO it's one of FreeBSD's great assets) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu Disclaimer: I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 23:10:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA21063 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:10:49 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA21058 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:10:47 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA18895; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:09:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA00386; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:10:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199510040610.XAA00386@corbin.Root.COM> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Brian Tao , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Oct 95 22:57:23 PDT." <16026.812786243@time.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 23:10:41 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Oops, one really minor sticky point... when I go to reboot the >> system after the installation, I get the "Syncing disks message", but >> nothing else. I can't flip around to the other virtual consoles to > >That's the same as it was in 2.0.5. You have to hit an extra "return" >before it will reset. Silly bugger. I have no idea how to make it >not hang there, and I've tried a number of different things, >too.. Sigh! I'll make sure this is at least documented.. I'll send you a fix... -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 23:23:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA21656 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:23:53 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA21648 ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:23:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199510040623.XAA21648@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510032021.QAA13993@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Oct 3, 95 04:21:09 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 492 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to dennis who wrote: > > Will someone please dig up the patch I sent in 3 months ago that fixed a > boot problem with no keyboard. It STILL isn't in there, and I'm getting > tired of doing it manually every time I load. Could you send me that patch if its for syscons, thanks ! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 23:39:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA22013 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:39:54 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA22008 ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:39:51 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA01312; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:39:44 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510040639.XAA01312@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons To: sos@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510040623.XAA21648@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@freebsd.org" at Oct 3, 95 11:23:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 603 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk if you send it to me otherwise (if it's bootblocks or stuff) I'll look at it.. > > In reply to dennis who wrote: > > > > Will someone please dig up the patch I sent in 3 months ago that fixed a > > boot problem with no keyboard. It STILL isn't in there, and I'm getting > > tired of doing it manually every time I load. > > Could you send me that patch if its for syscons, thanks ! > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team > So much code to hack -- so little time > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 3 23:56:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA22557 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:56:19 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA22548 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:56:15 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA05582; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:55:37 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA22700; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:55:37 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA20882; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:42:07 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510040642.HAA20882@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Well... To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:42:07 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Marc Ramirez" at Oct 3, 95 03:47:01 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1422 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Marc Ramirez wrote: > > After having accidentally blown away /home, I find that the ft driver > doesn't seem to work anymore. This is on 2.1-STABLE vintage about two > weeks. When doing > > > root[/usr]# ft|restore tf - > > It gives the dump info > > > Dump date: Sun Oct 1 12:52:00 1995 > > Dumped from: the epoch > > Level 0 dump of /home on mramirez.sy.yale.edu:/dev/sd1a > > Label: none > > and proceeds to list files. > > After the first block (I think), it stops, I get console messages to the > effect > > > fdc0: output ready timeout > > fdc0: input ready timeout > > fdc0: input ready timeout I'm about to commit a minor fix that supresses these message that are confusing ft users in the regular case (they will be hidden behind "bootverbose" aka. boot -c). They are (for the ft driver) benign. > and then ft dies and I get > > > ... > > 21440 ./mail/jian > > 21774 ./jay > > 21775 ./jay/.bash_history > > Broken pipe > > root[/usr]# I cannot confirm this. I've just checked on my 2.1 test machine, and was able to succesfully extract an old dump tape. This is with a Colorado QIC-40 drive. Nobody has been touching that code in the last months, btw., neither in -current nor 2.1-stable. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 00:01:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA22872 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:01:14 -0700 Received: from mramirez.sy.yale.edu (mramirez.sy.yale.edu [130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA22860 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:01:02 -0700 Received: (from mrami@localhost) by mramirez.sy.yale.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA03627; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:59:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:59:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Ramirez Reply-To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Well... In-Reply-To: <199510040642.HAA20882@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > As Marc Ramirez wrote: > > and then ft dies and I get > > I cannot confirm this. I've just checked on my 2.1 test machine, and > was able to succesfully extract an old dump tape. This is with a > Colorado QIC-40 drive. I'm going to buy some fresh tapes tomorrow and try to duplicate... Marc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 00:11:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA23413 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:11:22 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA23399 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:11:12 -0700 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA00783 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:09:17 +0100 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:09:17 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199510040709.IAA00783@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: majordomo running berzerq? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just received a mail from freebsd-announce telling me that I was added to freebsd-questions (?). Some shortciruit in freefalls' majordomo? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 01:02:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA28078 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:02:44 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA28050 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:02:36 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA15913; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:51:25 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510040821.RAA15913@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: MBR/Win95/IDE (3 questions) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:51:24 +0930 (CST) Cc: tony@thing.sunquest.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510032151.OAA02081@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 3, 95 02:51:01 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 912 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > If you have an IDE disk and a SCSI disk, to boot FreeBSD from the SCSI > disk if the IDE is the first in the INT 13 chain, you will have to hack > both the boot loader and the files locore.s and autoconf.c (to set the > ddevice numbers, since the DX register only supports 0x80 and 0x81 drive > ID's) in /sys/i386/i386, then rebuild a kernel. Actually, it's a only the bootstrap loader that needs to be modified; last time I did it it was a one-line fix in boot.c . > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 01:58:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA01848 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:58:46 -0700 Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA01726 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:56:35 -0700 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA00764; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:55:28 +0100 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199510040855.JAA00764@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: results of cd /usr/src; time make all To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:55:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199510040042.BAA28731@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Oct 4, 95 01:42:26 am Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 646 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert wrote: > > It seems that Andreas Klemm said: > > With a P90, ASUS P55TP4XE, 256k burst cache, 32 MB RAM, AHA2940, > > Quantum Grand Prix a 'make all' in /usr/src (-stable) lasts > > on a normally loaded system: > > > > 6119.650u 1079.939s 2:16:26.55 87.9% 926+1039k 24468+60357io 568pf+4w > > I hate you. It takes a little more than 10h on my 486DX-33, EISA, 32 MB, > BT747S + AHA-1740, without profiled libraries. Last time I did a make world was for the upgrade of 1.1 to 1.1.5. It took something like 18h on my 386/25, 8MB, 1542CF. I've never tried this on a 2.x system. tg, now awaiting numbers for Jörg's 386SX/16. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 02:01:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA02071 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:01:46 -0700 Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA02064 ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:01:39 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by mail1.digital.com; (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA23608; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:50:00 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0t0PQ4-0005OqC; Wed, 4 Oct 95 09:43 MEZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Cc: jkh%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: patches to kzipboot and kzip Reply-To: gj@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 08:43:15 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk appended are patches to kzipboot and kzip to allow uncompressing the gzip'ed kernel image over itself. I've tested this on a 4 MB machine using a MFSKERNEL provided to me by Jordan and it worked. It was possible to finally do an install of a SNAP on the machine. Gary J. ++++ patches for /sys/i386/boot/kzipboot ++++ *** Makefile.orig Tue Oct 3 12:23:49 1995 --- Makefile Tue Oct 3 21:27:35 1995 *************** *** 2,8 **** PROG= kzip.o BINMODE = 444 # target is a relocatable object ! SRCS= head.S boot.c unzip.c misc.c malloc.c inflate.c BINDIR= /usr/lib .PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../../kern NOMAN= toobad --- 2,11 ---- PROG= kzip.o BINMODE = 444 # target is a relocatable object ! SRCS= kzhead.S head.S boot.c unzip.c misc.c malloc.c inflate.c ! ! KOBJS= head.o boot.o unzip.o misc.o malloc.o inflate.o ! BINDIR= /usr/lib .PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../../kern NOMAN= toobad *************** *** 18,24 **** CFLAGS+= -DKADDR=$(KADDR) -DCSEG=$(CSEG) CFLAGS+= -DKZIP -DCOMCONSOLE=0x3F8 ! kzip.o: ${OBJS} ! $(LD) -r -x -o kzip.o $(OBJS) .include --- 21,31 ---- CFLAGS+= -DKADDR=$(KADDR) -DCSEG=$(CSEG) CFLAGS+= -DKZIP -DCOMCONSOLE=0x3F8 ! beforeinstall: ! install -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ! ${.CURDIR}/obj/kzhead.o ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}/kzhead.o ! ! kzip.o: ${KOBJS} ! $(LD) -r -x -o kzip.o $(KOBJS) .include *** head.S.orig Tue Oct 3 21:24:10 1995 --- head.S Tue Oct 3 22:06:42 1995 *************** *** 3,12 **** * Copyright (C) Serge Vakulenko */ .text start: ! cli # disable interrupts pushl 4(%esp) # pass howto arg call _boot # unpack the kernel image popl %eax # discard howto arg ljmp $CSEG, $KADDR # jump to unpacked kernel - . = start + 0x500 # skip over warm boot shit --- 3,12 ---- * Copyright (C) Serge Vakulenko */ .text + .globl start start: ! popl %eax # discard return from kzstart pushl 4(%esp) # pass howto arg call _boot # unpack the kernel image popl %eax # discard howto arg ljmp $CSEG, $KADDR # jump to unpacked kernel *** kzhead.S.orig Tue Oct 3 22:31:56 1995 --- kzhead.S Tue Oct 3 22:36:27 1995 *************** *** 0 **** --- 1,11 ---- + /* + * Boot unpacker startup routine. + * this just jumps around the gzip'ed kernel + * image to the real startup routine. + */ + .text + kzstart: + cli + # it seems like this should be possible using a jmp + call start # unpack the kernel image + . = kzstart + 0x500 # skip over warm boot shit ++++ patches for /usr/src/usr.bin/kzip ++++ *** Makefile.orig Tue Oct 3 12:35:36 1995 --- Makefile Tue Oct 3 22:28:42 1995 *************** *** 3,9 **** PROG= kzip NOMAN= toobad ! # Where we load the compressed stuff to uncompress it ! CFLAGS+= -DKZBASE=\"0x300000\" .include --- 3,9 ---- PROG= kzip NOMAN= toobad ! # Where the kernel runs, used as a base to calculate the load address ! CFLAGS+= -DKZBASE=0x100000 .include *** kzip.c.orig Tue Oct 3 12:34:37 1995 --- kzip.c Tue Oct 3 22:27:43 1995 *************** *** 18,23 **** --- 18,25 ---- #include #include #include + #include + #include #include #include #include *************** *** 33,38 **** --- 35,45 ---- pid_t Pext, Pgzip, Ppiggy, Pld; int pipe1[2], pipe2[2]; int status,fdi,fdo; + int size; + struct exec hdr; + int zip_size, offset; + char addr [10]; + struct stat st; char obj[BUFSIZ]; char out[BUFSIZ]; *************** *** 59,64 **** --- 66,86 ---- if (pipe(pipe2) < 0) { perror("pipe()"); return 1; } + /* figure out how big the uncompressed image will be */ + if (read (fdi, (char *)&hdr, sizeof(hdr)) != sizeof(hdr)) { + perror(argv[1]); + exit(2); + } + + size = N_SYMOFF (hdr) - N_TXTOFF (hdr); + + lseek (fdi, 0, SEEK_SET); + Pext = fork(); if (Pext < 0) { perror("fork()"); return 1; } if (!Pext) { *************** *** 123,128 **** --- 145,156 ---- return 3; } + /* a kludge to dynamically figure out where to start it */ + stat (obj, &st); + zip_size = (int)st.st_size; + offset = KZBASE + size - zip_size + 0x2000; /* fudge factor */ + sprintf(addr, "0x%x", roundup(offset, 4096)); + Pld = fork(); if (Pld < 0) { perror("fork()"); return 1; } if (!Pld) { *************** *** 131,141 **** "-Bstatic", "-Z", "-T", ! KZBASE, "-o", out, ! "/usr/lib/kzip.o", obj, 0); exit(2); } --- 159,170 ---- "-Bstatic", "-Z", "-T", ! addr, "-o", out, ! "/usr/lib/kzhead.o", obj, + "/usr/lib/kzip.o", 0); exit(2); } From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 03:52:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA09196 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 03:52:06 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09191 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 03:52:04 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA02038 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 03:52:03 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510041052.DAA02038@ref.tfs.com> Subject: some forward progress on dynamic devices To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 03:52:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 817 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've been working on integrating some TFS proprietary hardware with FreeBSD. Using devfs and the cdevsw_add() routines I am able to link the devices in with no changes to the sources off the net, other than to add the files to i386/conf/file.i386.. no-more having to edit conf.c no more editing /dev/MAKEDEV .. yey! A little cleaning up to do then I'm planning on launching into ALL THE DEVICES and adding similar dynamic stuff (ifdef'ed out by default) the aim is to be able to flick a switch and go fully dynamic, but until then I want to make sure nothing breaks. in this app they can't be lkms.. but it'd be nice.. I think the next hurdle to be cleared is fully dynamic interrupt assignment, so an lkm driver can dynamically decide which vector and which ipl.. this is starting to be fun again.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 04:47:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA11003 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 04:47:41 -0700 Received: from po8.andrew.cmu.edu (PO8.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA10998 ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 04:47:38 -0700 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po8.andrew.cmu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA01572; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:47:26 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:45:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert N Watson To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com CC: "Hector Gonzalez Jaime." , taob@io.org, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <1492.812770019@palmer.demon.co.uk> References: <1492.812770019@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is not really a very useful answer, but I know it used to be (and probably still is the case) that when one ftp's to ftp.funet.fi, a report on login of user status and maximum available bandwidth was given. I assumed, when I first saw this, that it meant you were limited to a certain bandwidth, and this was to garuntee a load share. Whether this is the case is an interesting question, I guess. Maybe one could email them? Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 4-Oct-95 Re: A moment in the life of.. Gary Palmer@palmer.demon (802) > Michael Smith stands accused of writing in message ID > <199510032321.IAA14949@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>: > >> I think microsoft has won that race, their ftp system told me to go > >> away last week, they had 1250 ftp users on line. > >Yah, but have you tried to use it past the 600 mark? Whatever it is just > >loses its marbles as far as long-distance connections are concerned. > >(At least, that's been my experience) > The problem is what network link you have really. If you can get a > fast enough network connection (perhaps FDDI or 100bTX), you should in > theory be able to handle that number without TOO many problems. Of > course, you'll always have problems with people a couple of hops away > on a fast link swamping your network :-( > Anyone know a way to do traffic limiting? Is it even fair? > Gary ---- Robert Watson (rnw+@andrew.cmu.edu) * Double major: IDS/CS * H&SS http://www.watson.org/ robert@fledge.watson.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 04:55:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA11211 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 04:55:06 -0700 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA11203 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 04:54:53 -0700 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from mail.hanse.de (134.100.239.2) with smtp id ; Wed, 4 Oct 95 12:50 MET Received: from wavehh.UUCP by mail.hanse.de with UUCP for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG id ; Wed, 4 Oct 95 12:50 MET Received: by wavehh.hanse.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19467; Wed, 4 Oct 95 12:07:14 +0100 From: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer) Message-Id: <9510041107.AA19467@wavehh.hanse.de> Subject: Disk Striping, Layout of file in memory filesystem... To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:07:13 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 947 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I saw a reference by Jordan that someone is working on striping disk drivers for FreeBSD, probably more than half a jear ago. Is this still true? A concat address? Is there some dead project to inherit :-) BTW, using a memory filesystem when swap space in seperated over several disks/controller would mean something similar, wouldn't it? When I write a file into a memfs that is based on multiple disks, can I assume that each disk will hold an eqal-sized fraction of the file at last? And what is the unit of continous bytes on each disk? Pages? Size of written block? Sorry for asking, I think that is the way swapspace should be allocated, but verifing what protion of a file ends up in what swapspace partition on a running system isn't really easy... Thanks for hints Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer (private address) Tel.: +49 40 / 522 18 29 Fax.: +49 40 / 522 85 36 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 07:02:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA19488 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:02:10 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA19482 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:02:06 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA16093 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:07:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:07:12 -0400 Message-Id: <199510041407.KAA16093@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Some patches to syscons Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >In reply to dennis who wrote: >> >> Will someone please dig up the patch I sent in 3 months ago that fixed a >> boot problem with no keyboard. It STILL isn't in there, and I'm getting >> tired of doing it manually every time I load. > >Could you send me that patch if its for syscons, thanks ! > Can't find the .dif and don't have the orginal file handy. In the 2.0.5 release, line 177 should be if (retries < 0) instead of if (!retries) Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 08:01:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA21468 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:01:23 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA21463 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:01:17 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA03844; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:03:05 -0600 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:03:05 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199510041503.JAA03844@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Andreas Klemm Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: results of cd /usr/src; time make all In-Reply-To: <199510031631.RAA16108@knobel.gun.de> References: <199510031631.RAA16108@knobel.gun.de> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andreas writes: > With a P90, ASUS P55TP4XE, 256k burst cache, 32 MB RAM, AHA2940, > Quantum Grand Prix a 'make all' in /usr/src (-stable) lasts > on a normally loaded system: > > 6119.650u 1079.939s 2:16:26.55 87.9% 926+1039k 24468+60357io 568pf+4w > > Perhaps these numbers are interesting for global comparison :-)) Hmm, on the same motherboard, memory, and cache but with a P100, NCR and a Fuji 1-Gig. 8647.959u 1747.472s 3:51:50.93 74.7% 966+1043k 56320+123478io 7913pf+8w This seems *much* slower. This box is running -stable, and built a -stable make world. Rod? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 09:03:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA24149 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:03:19 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA24144 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:03:15 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA11551; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:01:59 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510041601.LAA11551@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Disk Striping, Layout of file in memory filesystem... To: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:01:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9510041107.AA19467@wavehh.hanse.de> from "Martin Cracauer" at Oct 4, 95 12:07:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I saw a reference by Jordan that someone is working on striping disk > drivers for FreeBSD, probably more than half a jear ago. Is this still > true? A concat address? Is there some dead project to inherit :-) I had located a striping driver for an earlier variant of BSD about half a year ago, but basically I don't know enough kernel internals to make heads or tails of what needed to be done to make it work with FreeBSD. Rod Grimes took the code and was gonna hack on it, but I believe he is working on something slightly different now. You might want to check to see what he is up to. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 09:22:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA24584 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:22:48 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA24578 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:22:45 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA11627; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:21:42 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510041621.LAA11627@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: freebsd and Solaris Ifaliasing To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:21:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510040015.RAA00329@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 3, 95 05:15:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a need to alias a couple of interfaces which is ok on FreeBSD > but I also have to do it under Solaris. (well I can do without it but > it's going to be a pain) > is this possible? > does the BSD4.4 multiple addresses per interface work on solaris? > I've heard it does but with a differnt syntax > and can't find a reference anywhere.. Change your ifconfig le0 whatever-you-had to ifconfig le0:0 whatever-you-had ifconfig le0:1 some-new-alias ifconfig le0:2 some-other-alias (I haven't done this in forever, but I'm sure the syntax is right).. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 09:29:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA24880 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:29:18 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA24875 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:29:16 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA11600; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:19:42 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510041619.LAA11600@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:19:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, CACHO@mexicano.gdl.iteso.mx, taob@io.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1492.812770019@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Oct 4, 95 02:26:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Michael Smith stands accused of writing in message ID > <199510032321.IAA14949@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>: > >> I think microsoft has won that race, their ftp system told me to go > >> away last week, they had 1250 ftp users on line. > > >Yah, but have you tried to use it past the 600 mark? Whatever it is just > >loses its marbles as far as long-distance connections are concerned. > >(At least, that's been my experience) > > The problem is what network link you have really. If you can get a > fast enough network connection (perhaps FDDI or 100bTX), you should in > theory be able to handle that number without TOO many problems. Of > course, you'll always have problems with people a couple of hops away > on a fast link swamping your network :-( > > Anyone know a way to do traffic limiting? Is it even fair? About a year ago, we had a (*cough*) product related issue where we were arguing for the use of TCP/IP and tftp and another group was arguing for the use of some propietary blinkywink protocol - the advantage of our proposal was that you can go get an arbitrary TCP/IP implementation for a PC, workstation, etc., at the corner store, while a custom blinkywink protocol is something we have to write and is probably only available from us for a single platform. The argument: "tftp cannot be throttled." (the data being transferred was code to be written to a slowish flash RAM card, and there were concerns about the retry times, etc that I don't quite recall). My answer: "Rubbish", and I promptly added a "sleep()" call right after the data read. Wow did that ever do wonders to slow the transfers. :-) You should be able to bandwidth limit any arbitrary connection with a similar concept - it's fast, easy, simple to implement, stupid, and on top of it is not hard on the system. You probably want to be a little smarter than just sticking a fixed-length sleep(), but essentially that is all you NEED to do. You can write a little wrapper that allows X bytes per second through in a given period of time... I also wrote, at one time, a simple "throttle" program that limits bandwidth by malloc()ing a buffer of however many bytes per second I wanted to allow (something like 1KB to 1MB/sec) and sleep(1)ing after each read/write sequence. This is a little more efficient, maybe, when you want to limit bandwidth at high rates of speed - less syscall overhead, but potentially less accurate (it WILL limit you to something LESS than what you specify). Both techniques are trivial to code. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 10:22:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA25743 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:22:27 -0700 Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA25738 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:22:23 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA03804; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:21:57 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199510041721.KAA03804@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: results of cd /usr/src; time make all To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510041503.JAA03844@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Oct 4, 95 09:03:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1387 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Andreas writes: > > With a P90, ASUS P55TP4XE, 256k burst cache, 32 MB RAM, AHA2940, > > Quantum Grand Prix a 'make all' in /usr/src (-stable) lasts > > on a normally loaded system: > > > > 6119.650u 1079.939s 2:16:26.55 87.9% 926+1039k 24468+60357io 568pf+4w > > > > Perhaps these numbers are interesting for global comparison :-)) > > Hmm, on the same motherboard, memory, and cache but with a P100, NCR and > a Fuji 1-Gig. > > 8647.959u 1747.472s 3:51:50.93 74.7% 966+1043k 56320+123478io 7913pf+8w > > This seems *much* slower. This box is running -stable, and built a > -stable make world. > > Rod? When you boot check the Award BIOS status screen for ``256k Cache'' and a line under it that says ``Pipeline Burst Cache'' 3 hours 51 minutes is about right on this board with ``No cache'' and 16MB or more of memory :-(. Reseat the DIMM module (did you remeber to put it in?) if you get the ``No Cache'' situation. Hummm.. just checked last nights make world runs, oh.. never mind.. 8MB machine, yea, okay. I don't know the time for ``make all'' but ``make world'' is like 3 hours 10 minutes for -stable as of about 2 weeks ago. Changes to the source code can very this by a few minutes every now and then. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 10:25:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA25898 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:25:50 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA25892 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:25:46 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id SAA23366; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 18:25:13 +0100 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA27403; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 18:14:39 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199510041714.SAA27403@knobel.gun.de> Subject: Re: results of cd /usr/src; time make all To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 18:14:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@freebsd.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199510041503.JAA03844@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Oct 4, 95 09:03:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1027 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Andreas writes: > > With a P90, ASUS P55TP4XE, 256k burst cache, 32 MB RAM, AHA2940, > > Quantum Grand Prix a 'make all' in /usr/src (-stable) lasts > > on a normally loaded system: > > > > 6119.650u 1079.939s 2:16:26.55 87.9% 926+1039k 24468+60357io 568pf+4w > > > > Perhaps these numbers are interesting for global comparison :-)) > > Hmm, on the same motherboard, memory, and cache but with a P100, NCR and > a Fuji 1-Gig. > > 8647.959u 1747.472s 3:51:50.93 74.7% 966+1043k 56320+123478io 7913pf+8w > > This seems *much* slower. This box is running -stable, and built a > -stable make world. Please note, that I did a 'make all', not a 'make world'. A make all doesn't have the additional stages of recompiliing developement tools and the libs before doing a 'make all install'... -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 11:38:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA29318 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:38:47 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA29312 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:38:41 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02755 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:37:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id OAA07619; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:38:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: mail spamming Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Excuse me a second for topic change. You've all read this idiotic thing from euphoria.com, I want to know who to complain to about it. Euphoria.com isn't listed by my nameserver, but there's MX records being handled for it by domain uu.net, does that mean I can send complaints to postmaster @uu.net about this? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 11:46:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA29476 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:46:27 -0700 Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA29469 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:46:18 -0700 Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA29057; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:49:57 -0600 From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199510041849.MAA29057@hemi.com> Subject: Re: mail spamming To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:49:56 -0600 (MDT) Cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Oct 4, 95 02:38:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 831 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Excuse me a second for topic change. You've all read this idiotic thing > from euphoria.com, I want to know who to complain to about it. > Euphoria.com isn't listed by my nameserver, but there's MX records being > handled for it by domain uu.net, does that mean I can send complaints to > postmaster @uu.net about this? Domain Name: EUPHORIA.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Nikolich, Jim (JN13) jnikolich@EUPHORIA.COM 416 245 6700 I sent a complaint this morning to the user and the above address. You can always try generic names like `postmaster'. -Ade Barkah -------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 11:51:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA29651 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:51:01 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA29643 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:50:53 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA11924; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:49:36 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510041849.NAA11924@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: mail spamming To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:49:35 -0500 (CDT) Cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Oct 4, 95 02:38:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Excuse me a second for topic change. You've all read this idiotic thing > from euphoria.com, I want to know who to complain to about it. > Euphoria.com isn't listed by my nameserver, but there's MX records being > handled for it by domain uu.net, does that mean I can send complaints to > postmaster @uu.net about this? No. There is a valid domain (I assume) "euphoria.com", but these messages did not originate there and you will be inadvertently harassing a helpless site. These messages originated at Internet Direct (indirect.com): (brasil.jgreco.p1-3) 1:42pm /tmp_mnt/net/lunar/code/solar/etc/diskless/src/throttle 373 > whois -h rs.internic.net. indirect-dom Internet Direct, Inc. (INDIRECT-DOM) 1366 E. Thomas Road, Suite 210 Phoenix, AZ 85014-5741 Domain Name: INDIRECT.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Internet Direct, Inc. (IND-NOC) hostmaster@indirect.com (602) 274-0100 Record last updated on 09-May-94. Record created on 31-Mar-93. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.INDIRECT.COM 165.247.1.3 ICM1.ICP.NET 192.94.207.66 NS1.SPRINTLINK.NET 204.117.214.10 NS2.SPRINTLINK.NET 199.2.252.10 NS3.SPRINTLINK.NET 204.97.212.10 The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's). Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. so you should be bitching at "hostmaster@indirect.com". Since that is an extremely vague address, you might try some of the following if you do not get a response: EXPN 250 Internet Direct Administrator EXPN 250 Michael Swinson March EXPN 250 User Support Services EXPN 250 User Support Services EXPN 250-David M. Crumpton <\crumpton@bud.indirect.com> 250 Internet Direct Pager <|.filter@bud.indirect.com> I've seen a lot of crap coming from this site lately, as my memory serves.. so I suspect you won't get an answer or any satisfaction. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 12:10:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA00507 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:10:04 -0700 Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00491 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:09:56 -0700 Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id UAA28030; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:09:52 +0100 From: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199510041909.UAA28030@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Subject: vm kernel map exhausted (execve fails)? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:09:51 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 10642 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk We are constantly getting kernel messages like: execve: failed to allocate string space Is there some memory leak inside the kernel? Underneath the output of vmstat, some syslog and our config file. -Guido Memory statistics by bucket size Size In Use Free Requests HighWater Couldfree 16 1591 713 2462926 1280 0 32 3765 1739 2585964 640 0 64 3081 375 4549303 320 0 128 5285 1403 46047712 160 51 256 2888 344 4534601 80 0 512 53 27 1070 40 0 1K 20 52 6628466 20 3195134 2K 15 1 152 10 0 4K 10 2 8299 5 0 8K 6 2 1848 5 0 16K 1 0 1 5 0 Memory usage type by bucket size Size Type(s) 16 routetbl, vnodes, VM objhash, VM pgdata, proc, temp 32 devbuf, pcb, routetbl, pgrp, session, VM mapent, VM pager, VM pgdata, subproc, LFS segment, in_multi, ether_multi, temp 64 devbuf, routetbl, ifaddr, namecache, UFS quota, VM pgdata, file, lockf, LFS segment, temp 128 mbuf, devbuf, pcb, routetbl, fragtbl, zombie, ifaddr, soopts, cred, iov, vnodes, VM map, VM object, VM pgdata, file desc, LFS segment, NFS srvsock, temp, ttys 256 devbuf, socket, pcb, vnodes, VM map, VM pgdata, file desc, proc, subproc, FFS node, temp 512 devbuf, ioctlops, mount, UFS mount, VM pgdata, file desc 1K devbuf, namei, UFS mount, VM pgdata, file, file desc, NQNFS Lease, NFS daemon, temp 2K mbuf, devbuf, UFS mount, VM pgdata, file, ttys 4K devbuf, UFS mount, VM pgdata, file, MSDOSFS mount, temp 8K devbuf, NFS node, namecache, UFS quota, UFS mount, VM pgdata, temp 16K VM pgdata Memory statistics by type Type Kern Type InUse MemUse HighUse Limit Requests Limit Limit Size(s) mbuf 365 48K 173K 9831K 38765169 0 0 128,2K devbuf 33 47K 47K 9831K 33 0 0 32,64,128,256,512,1K,2K,4K,8K socket 224 56K 87K 9831K 693173 0 0 256 pcb 367 64K 102K 9831K 870918 0 0 32,128,256 routetbl 136 11K 14K 9831K 9682 0 0 16,32,64,128 fragtbl 0 0K 1K 9831K 132 0 0 128 zombie 5 1K 2K 9831K 235961 0 0 128 ifaddr 5 1K 1K 9831K 5 0 0 64,128 soopts 38 5K 5K 9831K 13278 0 0 128 namei 0 0K 17K 9831K 6472385 0 0 1K ioctlops 0 0K 1K 9831K 8 0 0 512 cred 85 11K 17K 9831K 64314 0 0 128 pgrp 33 2K 2K 9831K 21537 0 0 32 session 28 1K 2K 9831K 12151 0 0 32 iov 0 0K 1K 9831K 224 0 0 128 mount 8 4K 4K 9831K 9 0 0 512 NFS node 1 8K 8K 9831K 1 0 0 8K vnodes 2241 278K 286K 9831K 8941 0 0 16,128,256 namecache 2189 145K 145K 9831K 2189 0 0 64,8K UFS quota 81 13K 13K 9831K 81 0 0 64,8K UFS mount 22 37K 37K 9831K 22 0 0 512,1K,2K,4K,8K VM map 106 26K 40K 9831K 1276925 0 0 128,256 VM mapent 1681 53K 83K 9831K 433871 0 0 32 VM object 1891 237K 318K 9831K 4881451 0 0 128 VM objhash 768 12K 13K 9831K 1223201 0 0 16 VM pager 1311 41K 52K 9831K 1460003 0 0 32 VM pgdata 1854 128K 189K 9831K 1696805 0 0 16,32,64,128,256,512,1K,2K,4K,8K,16K file 453 29K 42K 9831K 3554035 0 0 64,1K,2K,4K file desc 131 29K 67K 9831K 244311 0 0 128,256,512,1K lockf 8 1K 3K 9831K 772819 0 0 64 proc 115 26K 40K 9831K 245830 0 0 16,256 subproc 111 6K 10K 9831K 237064 0 0 32,256 LFS segment 0 0K 4K 9831K 258808 0 0 32,64,128 FFS node 2185 547K 547K 9831K 3184146 0 0 256 NQNFS Lease 1 1K 1K 9831K 1 0 0 1K NFS srvsock 4 1K 1K 9831K 4 0 0 128 NFS daemon 1 1K 1K 9831K 1 0 0 1K in_multi 2 1K 1K 9831K 2 0 0 32 ether_multi 1 1K 1K 9831K 1 0 0 32 MSDOSFS mount 1 4K 4K 9831K 1 0 0 4K temp 38 7K 26K 9831K 171808 0 0 16,32,64,128,256,1K,4K,8K ttys 192 28K 41K 9831K 9042 0 0 128,2K Memory Totals: In Use Free Requests 1899K 442K 66820342 Oct 2 22:34:44 iaehv kernel: FreeBSD 2.0-RELEASE #9: Thu Jun 15 20:36:39 MET DST 1995 Oct 2 22:34:44 iaehv kernel: guido@iaehv.IAEhv.nl:/usr/src/sys/compile/IAEHV Oct 2 22:34:44 iaehv kernel: CPU: Pentium (Pentium-class CPU) 90 MHz Id = 0x521 Origin = "GenuineIntel" Oct 2 22:34:44 iaehv kernel: real memory = 66715648 (16288 pages) Oct 2 22:34:44 iaehv kernel: avail memory = 64479232 (15742 pages) Oct 2 22:34:45 iaehv kernel: using 750 buffers containing 6144000 bytes of memory Oct 2 22:34:45 iaehv kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: Oct 2 22:34:45 iaehv kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard Oct 2 22:34:45 iaehv kernel: sc0: VGA color <4 virtual consoles> Oct 2 22:34:45 iaehv kernel: ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 msize 16384 on isa Oct 2 22:34:46 iaehv kernel: ed0: address 00:00:c0:29:31:a5, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) Oct 2 22:34:46 iaehv kernel: bpf: ed0 attached Oct 2 22:34:46 iaehv kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa Oct 2 22:34:46 iaehv kernel: sio0: type 16550A Oct 2 22:34:46 iaehv kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa Oct 2 22:34:47 iaehv kernel: sio1: type 16550A Oct 2 22:34:47 iaehv kernel: lpt0 at 0x278-0x27f on isa Oct 2 22:34:47 iaehv kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Oct 2 22:34:47 iaehv kernel: fdc0: [0: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in] Oct 2 22:34:48 iaehv kernel: npx0 on motherboard Oct 2 22:34:48 iaehv kernel: pci0: scanning device 0..31, mechanism=1. Oct 2 22:34:48 iaehv kernel: pci0:0: vendor=0x1039, device=0x406, class=multimedia [not supported] Oct 2 22:34:48 iaehv kernel: map(10): mem32(80000010) Oct 2 22:34:48 iaehv kernel: map(14): mem64(80000010) Oct 2 22:34:48 iaehv kernel: map(18): mem32(80000018) Oct 2 22:34:48 iaehv kernel: map(1c): mem64(80000018) Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: map(20): mem32(80000020) Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: map(24): mem64(80000020) Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: pci0:1: vendor=0x1039, device=0x8, class=old [not supported] Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: ncr0 int a irq 11 on pci0:6 Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: reg20: virtual=0xf5a08000 physical=0xc0000000 Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: ncr0: restart (scsi reset). Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: ncr0 scanning for targets 0..6 (V2 pl18 95/02/23) Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: ncr0 targ 0 lun 0: type 0(direct) fixed SCSI2 Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: ncr0 targ 0 lun 0: Oct 2 22:34:49 iaehv kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. Oct 2 22:34:50 iaehv kernel: sd0: 1685MB (3450902 total sec), 2372 cyl, 15 head, 96 sec, bytes/sec 512 Oct 2 22:34:50 iaehv kernel: ncr0 targ 1 lun 0: type 0(direct) fixed SCSI2 Oct 2 22:34:50 iaehv kernel: ncr0 targ 1 lun 0: Oct 2 22:34:50 iaehv kernel: sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. Oct 2 22:34:50 iaehv kernel: sd1: 1685MB (3450902 total sec), 2372 cyl, 15 head, 96 sec, bytes/sec 512 Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: ncr0 targ 2 lun 0: type 0(direct) fixed SCSI2 Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: ncr0 targ 2 lun 0: Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: sd2(ncr0:2:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: sd2: 2006MB (4108600 total sec), 3053 cyl, 12 head, 112 sec, bytes/sec 512 Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: ncr0 targ 4 lun 0: type 1(sequential) removable SCSI2 Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: ncr0 targ 4 lun 0: Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: st0(ncr0:4:0): 200ns (5 Mb/sec) offset 8. Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: st0: density code 0x13, variable blocks, write-enabled Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: pci0:13: vendor=0x1095, device=0x640, class=storage [not supported] Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: pci uses physical addresses from 0xc0000000 to 0xc0001000 Oct 2 22:34:51 iaehv kernel: bpf: lo0 attached # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # GENERIC,v 1.20 1994/11/18 19:10:25 jkh Exp # machine "i386" cpu "I386_CPU" cpu "I486_CPU" cpu "I586_CPU" ident IAEHV maxusers 64 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options UCONSOLE #X Console support options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options "NCONS=4" #4 virtual consoles #options GATEWAY #internetwork gateway options QUOTA #enable disk quotas options DUMMY_NOPS options FIFO options SYSVSHM options "NMBCLUSTERS=1024" # FILESYSTEM OPTIONS options DODUMP options "PCI_IRQ=11" #kludge for broken pci adapter config kernel root on sd0 swap on sd0 and sd1 dumps on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller ncr0 controller scbus0 device sd0 device sd1 device sd2 device sd3 device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device pty 64 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 12:27:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA00947 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:27:21 -0700 Received: from epsilon.qmw.ac.uk (epsilon.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.6.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA00920 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:26:30 -0700 Received: from canary.dcs.qmw.ac.uk by epsilon.qmw.ac.uk with SMTP-DNS (PP) id <06351-0@epsilon.qmw.ac.uk>; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:31:48 +0100 Received: from ruby.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [192.135.231.243] by canary.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.6.12/QMW-server-2.4s) with SMTP; poster "Mark Dawson "; id TAA28993; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:27:17 +0100 Received: locally by ruby (4.1/QMW-client-3.2b); for "md@dcs.qmw.ac.uk"; poster "md"; id AA15138; Wed, 4 Oct 95 19:31:34 BST Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.ruby.cs.qmw.ac.uk.sun4.41 via MS.5.6.ruby.cs.qmw.ac.uk.sun4_41; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:31:34 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:31:34 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Dawson To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: A RAID solution for FreeBSD Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Now I have a few spare minutes I thought I should say "thank you" to everyone on the list who has helped me out over the last couple of months - I wouldn't have got this thing flying without your help! Special thanks must go to Stefan for making changes to the PCI probe code that made the following possible... At QMW we have a large lab. of over 100 (legacy) Macintoshes for our students. Over the summer we've given this a major overhawl. The Macs are now connected on 18 segments to a 3com switched-hub with a 100Mbps link to a FastEthernet network comprising 3 compute servers (memory-rich Sparc-20s) and a "student" file server (Compaq Proliant 1500/120 running FreeBSD). >From my point-of-view the fun part is the Compaq. The Compaq Smart Array Controller (EISA) does the RAID completely transparently to FreeBSD. It's configured with five 4.3Gb disks in a single RAID-5 "logical disk" of 16GB and a sixth disk as a "hot-spare" (and plenty of empty slots for future expansion.) The controller's battery-backed 4MB cache memory means disk accesses complete once data has been moved into the controller. This gives alarming "rm -rf *" performance :-). Better, using SMCs PCI FastEthernet cards I get the following iozone results from a compute server via NFS: IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V1.16 (10/28/92) By Bill Norcott Operating System: SunOS -- using fsync() IOZONE: auto-test mode MB reclen bytes/sec written bytes/sec read 1 512 1263974 10025968 1 1024 1321070 17049731 1 2048 1269425 25934936 1 4096 1155822 29564016 1 8192 1273568 42032068 2 512 1128729 9577919 2 1024 1255028 15582247 2 2048 1221635 22480418 2 4096 1273994 29275908 2 8192 1150043 34849744 4 512 1219658 9621994 4 1024 1225791 15527906 4 2048 1222215 22804554 4 4096 1227209 16358889 4 8192 1270302 34678311 8 512 1161705 9623274 8 1024 1247379 15725818 8 2048 1199133 23001643 8 4096 1210558 29912095 8 8192 1191661 35262549 16 512 1177531 5421519 16 1024 1208808 15163076 16 2048 1204631 23017771 16 4096 1191427 29986625 16 8192 1248278 19627731 Completed series of tests and these locally on the Compaq: IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V1.16 (10/28/92) By Bill Norcott Operating System: POSIX 1003.1-1988 IOZONE: auto-test mode MB reclen bytes/sec written bytes/sec read 1 512 5368709 14913080 1 1024 7456540 19173961 1 2048 8947848 22369621 1 4096 10324440 16777216 1 8192 13421772 11184810 2 512 5064819 14128181 2 1024 7456540 19173961 2 2048 9942053 7064090 2 4096 9586980 4709393 2 8192 14913080 3397917 4 512 5368709 5965232 4 1024 7780737 5113056 4 2048 9099506 4511520 4 4096 10324440 4098251 4 8192 12485370 4436949 8 512 4994148 13256071 8 1024 7724761 10424677 8 2048 9850842 5187158 8 4096 10845877 4628197 8 8192 14708792 4006499 16 512 5450466 12413200 16 1024 7724761 17459216 16 2048 4051855 20259279 16 4096 4329604 20259279 16 8192 4782814 22369621 Completed series of tests (not sure how to interpret these!) The de driver does a good job of shipping packets - I've seen ~3000 per second at peak - although the NFS test shown above generated about 900. Netatalk on the Compaq also makes an amazingly good AFP server for the MacOS Macintoshes. I'm talking to people at Compaq to get the go-ahead to contribute my FreeBSD driver for their Smart controller. So far no response. Anyone from Compaq out there? Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 12:29:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA01019 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:29:17 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA01014 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:29:15 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0t0ZTZ-0003vuC; Wed, 4 Oct 95 12:27 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA17400; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:27:35 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: chuckr@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Robey), FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mail spamming In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 1995 13:49:35 EST." <199510041849.NAA11924@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 20:27:35 +0100 Message-ID: <17398.812834855@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > EXPN > 250-David M. Crumpton <\crumpton@bud.indirect.com> > 250 Internet Direct Pager <|.filter@bud.indirect.com> > > I've seen a lot of crap coming from this site lately, as my memory serves.. > so I suspect you won't get an answer or any satisfaction. I guess we need a killfile on majordomo now :-( -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. It will be some time yet before progress goes too far... (Poul Henningsen) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 12:45:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA01217 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:45:43 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA01207 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:45:40 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA21461; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:44:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA28040; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:45:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199510041945.MAA28040@corbin.Root.COM> To: Nate Williams cc: Andreas Klemm , hackers@freebsd.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: results of cd /usr/src; time make all In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 95 09:03:05 MDT." <199510041503.JAA03844@rocky.sri.MT.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 12:45:30 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Andreas writes: >> With a P90, ASUS P55TP4XE, 256k burst cache, 32 MB RAM, AHA2940, >> Quantum Grand Prix a 'make all' in /usr/src (-stable) lasts >> on a normally loaded system: >> >> 6119.650u 1079.939s 2:16:26.55 87.9% 926+1039k 24468+60357io 568pf+4w >> >> Perhaps these numbers are interesting for global comparison :-)) > >Hmm, on the same motherboard, memory, and cache but with a P100, NCR and >a Fuji 1-Gig. > >8647.959u 1747.472s 3:51:50.93 74.7% 966+1043k 56320+123478io 7913pf+8w > >This seems *much* slower. This box is running -stable, and built a >-stable make world. He didn't say "make world"...he said "make all"; these are quite different things! :-) -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 13:00:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA01603 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:00:39 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01594 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:00:36 -0700 Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA05673; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:58:38 -0700 From: "Steven G. Kargl" Message-Id: <199510041958.MAA05673@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: A RAID solution for FreeBSD To: md@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Mark Dawson) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Dawson" at Oct 4, 95 07:31:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 950 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Mark Dawson: > > Netatalk on the Compaq also makes an amazingly good AFP server for the > MacOS Macintoshes. Mark, Have you done any further work on netatalk? I have had a few people request your port, so I have given them your patches (with proper attribution) with my minor changes. I'm particularly interested in the resolution of the "ddp_route: oops" messages that are logged to the console and /var/log/messages. I know where these come from, but I don't know what this means or how to fix it. > I'm talking to people at Compaq to get the go-ahead to contribute my > FreeBSD driver for their Smart controller. So far no response. Anyone > from Compaq out there? Did you sign a NDA with Compaq? -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.x-stable | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 15:39:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA07077 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 15:39:40 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA07071 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 15:39:31 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA27750 ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:39:15 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA20545 ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:39:15 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id WAA01880; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 22:12:35 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199510042112.WAA01880@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: results of cd /usr/src; time make all To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 22:12:35 +0100 (MET) Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@freebsd.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199510041714.SAA27403@knobel.gun.de> from "Andreas Klemm" at Oct 4, 95 06:14:39 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1165 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Andreas Klemm said: > > This seems *much* slower. This box is running -stable, and built a > > -stable make world. > > Please note, that I did a 'make all', not a 'make world'. A make all > doesn't have the additional stages of recompiliing developement tools > and the libs before doing a 'make all install'... Rhaaa, I knew it ! You were cheating !!! :-) Anyone wants to exchange an EISA MB with two SCSI cards and 32 MB in 9-pin SIMMS against an ASUS P55 with 2 NCR and 32 MB in 32-bit SIMMS ? :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sun Oct 1 14:44:30 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 16:33:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA08508 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:33:13 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08503 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:33:11 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA01964; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:31:40 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:31:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: A moment in the life of ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199510041619.LAA11600@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > My answer: "Rubbish", and I promptly added a "sleep()" call right after the > data read. Wow did that ever do wonders to slow the transfers. :-) This is essentially what I did to simulate a slow connection in WebHound, my (as yet unreleased) Web server benchmark. You can configure it to usleep() within a range of milliseconds per packet. I can then adjust this to between, say, 200 and 1000 milliseconds per 1K packet to approximate a v.32bis PPP connection. -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 16:38:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA08770 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:38:45 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08764 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:38:41 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA02180; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:38:29 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:38:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: David Greenman cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Flaky reboot problem with this SP3G board In-Reply-To: <199510040436.VAA00321@corbin.Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, David Greenman wrote: > > Try just pressing "Enter". The machine actually does a 'halt', not a > reboot, and it needs a before it will reboot. I don't think virtual > console switching works at this stage, either, which explains why the machine > appears dead. I hit Enter at first, then spacebar, then I tried the switch virtual consoles, etc. But after some more fiddling last night, I think it just might be the hardware itself. The machine was rebooted five times after I did the installation last night. Twice it hung as I described, twice it rebooted itself properly and once it cleared the screen (as if to reboot) and then stayed there. After hitting the hardware reset, I get a message saying the CMOS checksums don't match (or something) and that it was reloading the factory defaults. Is this a bad BIOS revision problem, or bad memory, or what? -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 16:39:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA08806 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:39:37 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08800 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:39:34 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA02208; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:39:22 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:39:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP now available for testing In-Reply-To: <15584.812786171@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Thanks! If you're not sick of installs yet, I wouldn't mind some > feedback on the next snap, which should feature the last of my planned > sysinstall renovations for 2.1. Next snapshot? I thought we were moving right to 2.1 for next week? Not that I don't mind... a couple more weeks of testing never hurt anyone. -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 16:50:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA09145 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:50:41 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA09138 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:50:39 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA02524; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:50:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:50:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Preformatted man pages and 2.1.0-950928-SNAP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone else having problems with pre-formatted man pages with the September snapshot? man(1) appears to ignore the presence of preformatted man pages. I've created all the cat* directories in /usr/share/man and /usr/local/man, man(1) will save the preformatted pages in there, but subsequent invocations still produce the "Formatting page, please wait" message. Running catman doesn't help either. All the directories are world-readable and owned by user man, group man. Any ideas? -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 17:08:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA09777 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:08:35 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA09771 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:08:29 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00843; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:04:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510050004.RAA00843@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: MBR/Win95/IDE (3 questions) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:04:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, tony@thing.sunquest.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510040821.RAA15913@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Oct 4, 95 05:51:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 743 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > If you have an IDE disk and a SCSI disk, to boot FreeBSD from the SCSI > > disk if the IDE is the first in the INT 13 chain, you will have to hack > > both the boot loader and the files locore.s and autoconf.c (to set the > > ddevice numbers, since the DX register only supports 0x80 and 0x81 drive > > ID's) in /sys/i386/i386, then rebuild a kernel. > > Actually, it's a only the bootstrap loader that needs to be modified; last > time I did it it was a one-line fix in boot.c . I think that's only true if the SCSI is drive 2. Drive 3 and above requires kernel hacks for root mounting to work. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 17:19:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA10098 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:19:56 -0700 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10093 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:19:54 -0700 Received: from sbgrad9.csdept (sbgrad9.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.2.29]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA01343 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:19:45 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:19:45 -0400 From: Michael Vernick Message-Id: <199510050019.UAA01343@cs.sunysb.edu> Received: by sbgrad9.csdept (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10479; Wed, 4 Oct 95 20:17:47 EDT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Probe of PCI Mach64 blanks screen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've just purchased 3 new computers with ATI MACH64 cards in them. When trying to load FreeBSD 2.0.5 the monitor blanks out when the card is initially being probed (just after 'sc0 at 0x60...') . Everything else seems to be OK. I put the card in a working machine and the same thing happened but I could still rlogin to the machine so it booted fine. Any ideas on how to debug this problem? Michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 17:25:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA10307 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:25:54 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10302 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:25:51 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00885; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:24:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510050024.RAA00885@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: some forward progress on dynamic devices To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:24:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510041052.DAA02038@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 4, 95 03:52:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 827 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > A little cleaning up to do then I'm planning on launching into > ALL THE DEVICES and adding similar dynamic stuff (ifdef'ed out by default) > the aim is to be able to flick a switch and go fully dynamic, but until then > I want to make sure nothing breaks. 8-) 8-). > in this app they can't be lkms.. but it'd be nice.. > I think the next hurdle to be cleared is fully dynamic > interrupt assignment, so an lkm driver can > dynamically decide which vector and which ipl.. > > this is starting to be fun again.. Yup! 8-). We knew it was just a matter of getting to a stable point after doing the update o the 4.4Lite source base before we could start ripping things apart. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 20:04:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA15204 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:04:51 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA15195 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:04:40 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA17744 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:00:17 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510050330.NAA17744@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Fiskars UPS support... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:00:16 +0930 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1831 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hiho people, time to talk of UPS' We have a customer who'll be running a FreeBSD system (and associated hardware) off a Fiskars UPS of some description. In order to help us out, they've supplied me with a complete description of the protocol that the UPS uses for status reporting. Now, I'm not averse to writing a monitoring daemon, but there are a few issues that I (obviously) need to address with it, and it may well be that there's someone out there who either has a skeleton for a UPS monitoring daemon, or who just has the odd suggestion. The crucial issue in this case is, once the UPS has sounded its death knell, ie. power's out, and battery holdout is down to a few minutes, what should one do? If you decide to shutdown, and then power comes back, you're stuck shutdown, waiting for the power failure to reboot you. If you go single-user, can you arrange to have the daemon survive the shutdown and send an appropriate signal to the root shell when the power comes back? Or would it be better to reboot and then as part of the boot process wait for the UPS to give the all-clear? Anyone with any experience is invited to comment 8) (And yes, the resultant code will be available, and if anyone's particularly interested in the raw protocol details, and can't get them from their local Fiskars supplier, I'll produce a summary for you.) No, I have nothing to do with Fiskars. These customers are Swedes, don't blame me 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 20:43:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA16700 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:43:43 -0700 Received: from port13.hubbard2.t.ic.net (rob@port13.hubbard2.t.ic.net [152.160.88.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA16693 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:43:36 -0700 Received: (from rob@localhost) by port13.hubbard2.t.ic.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA02570; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:37:15 -0400 Message-Id: <199510050337.XAA02570@port13.hubbard2.t.ic.net> Subject: Re: system crash - help! To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) In-Reply-To: <199510031806.LAA01509@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 3, 95 11:06:50 am From: "Rob Misiak" Reply-To: rdm@ic.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 721 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert ("Re: system crash - help!") wrote: > > > Ok, in case anyone is interested, I fixed the problem. What happened is > > fsck (I think that's what did this) marked some files - including /etc/ttys > > (causing the login problem) and /etc/hosts - character devices. I luckily > > had the 2.0.5-release CD lying around, so I replaced all of the messed up > > files > > What do you mean "marked"... you mean "moved to lost+found"? I hope? > > Unfortunately, no. The files were in the same places that they normally were, except (according to ls -l) they were character devices. It happened to many random files all over the / partition. Fortunately, I kept backups and I was able to restore the files. Rob From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 22:48:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA20476 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 22:48:15 -0700 Received: from jupiter.superlink.net (root@jupiter.superlink.net [204.97.220.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA20471 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 22:48:12 -0700 Received: from earth.superlink.net (earth.superlink.net [204.97.220.6]) by jupiter.superlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA19425 for <@jupiter.superlink.net:hackers@freebsd.org>; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:47:18 -0400 Received: from mars.superlink.net by earth.superlink.net via ESMTP (950215.SGI.8.6.10/940406.SGI.AUTO) for <@jupiter.superlink.net:hackers@freebsd.org> id CAA12037; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 02:06:39 -0400 Received: by mars.superlink.net (950215.SGI.8.6.10/940406.SGI) id BAA28972; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:51:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Marxx To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.1.0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I SUPed from 2.0.5 to 2.1.0 all today... Half of my supfile used stable, (all the important stuph) and the rest like utils and x11 were current. I tried doing a make world, everything went fine until at the end it crashed on something called crt0.o or somethin... I was in X while i was doin that... Then I tried compiling my new kernel, and at the end a bunch of stuph flashes by my screen; and it's stops. a bunch of /var/tmp/cc0025711.o stuph flashes by at the end of the kernel compilation. Then it says: __main.o: Undefined symbol `_atexit' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 stop. I've been playing with it for hours and hours...the only sleep I'm getting is at school, please help me! Any help would be deeply appreciated :) regards, marxx From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 4 23:23:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA21293 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:23:47 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA21286 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:23:39 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA01605; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 07:23:34 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA04384; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 07:23:33 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA07427; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 07:23:01 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510050623.HAA07427@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: system crash - help! To: rdm@ic.net Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 07:23:00 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199510050337.XAA02570@port13.hubbard2.t.ic.net> from "Rob Misiak" at Oct 4, 95 11:37:13 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 694 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Rob Misiak wrote: > > > What do you mean "marked"... you mean "moved to lost+found"? I hope? > > Unfortunately, no. The files were in the same places that they normally were, > except (according to ls -l) they were character devices. It happened to many > random files all over the / partition. Fortunately, I kept backups and I was > able to restore the files. I've also seen this, but this was after a severs SCSI bus crash. (I've been playing with a WORM device that apparently confused the entires SCSI controller code.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 00:21:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA22777 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:21:42 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA22772 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:21:40 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA15621; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:21:29 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:21:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Will FreeBSD mount drives partitioned and disklabelled by BSD/OS 2.0? I tried mounting one of the BSD/OS 2.0 install floppies and got the warning "filesystem not clean, run fsck on it first". Is this safe to do? -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 00:33:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA23307 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:33:33 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA23301 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:33:29 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id IAA05624 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:33:25 +0100 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA04154 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:17:08 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199510050717.IAA04154@knobel.gun.de> Subject: -stable: machine reboots, during file transfer from mounted dos floppy to disk To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:17:07 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 803 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! Don't know, if this is a bug or a feature of my machine ;-)... Yesterday evening I mounted a dos floppy to the dir. /disk. Then I made a cp * /local/xxx The floppy contained 2 large files (~500K each). During file transfer (I assume in the middle of the session) the machine reboots without a message ... I was working under X. XFree86 3.1.2. The machine ran fine 2 days long without trouble. After that I booted dos. I copied the files to C:\xxx bootet FreeBSD. The copy session from the mounted C: partition caused no problem. Other experiences ? Andreas /// -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 00:59:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA24802 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:59:35 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA24797 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:59:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA02938; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:58:59 -0700 To: peter@freefall.FreeBSD.org cc: gj@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Kernel kernel, where to put the kernel? Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 00:58:59 -0700 Message-ID: <2930.812879939@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So what's the concensus from the kzip afficionados? Are Gary's latest patches what we want to go with, or something hybrid between Peter and Gary? Peter, you mentioned that you'd fiddled with the values a bit for some reason.. The current status is that I've removed PROCFS and PTY support from the BOOTMFS kernel, hopefully bringing us back down below the dreaded 1MB limit anyway, but perhaps we should also leave ourselves some room. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 01:22:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA26017 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:22:40 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA26010 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:22:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199510050822.BAA26010@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Syscons patches etc.... To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers), current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:22:34 -0700 (PDT) From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 694 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm in the process of overhauling syscons, and applying all kinds of bug fixes to it, plus some new funcionality. Allthough the patches has been coming in at at very pleasent rate lately, I'll ask officially if anybody has something lying around that they think should be in there.. Also I'd appreaciate if nobody puts anything into the sources at the moment, as its going to be a major pain for me. I hope to have the first round of changes committed during the next week or so. Thanks.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 02:26:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA29204 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 02:26:12 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA29197 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 02:26:08 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA01218; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 02:26:01 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 02:26:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199510050926.CAA01218@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: adrian@virginia.edu CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (atf3r@agate.cs.virginia.edu) Subject: Re: patch for tk4.0 ports From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * Here's a small patch which fixes a problem which caused tk4.0 to * fail to compile. Essentially, it is a dependency mismatch/inconsistency. Thanks. By the way, such messages should be sent to "ports", not "hackers". :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 03:33:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA02767 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:33:23 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02745 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:33:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA16487; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:32:59 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org cc: announce@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: 2.1.0-951005-SNAP Now available. Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 03:32:59 -0700 Message-ID: <16482.812889179@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Come and get it! This should fix all currently open problems with the last snap. If you had complaints about general functionality or style (e.g. verbosity levels and such), please test this release to ensure that such items have been closed to your satisfaction. This also introduces a new floppy image: atapi.flp. This is a boot floppy with IDE CDROM support, and those of you with IDE CDROM drives are encouraged to test it! The fixit floppy isn't 100% yet (in particular, I'm aware that spwd.db is still pointing into space) but it should now be quite usable for fixing a variety of system problems. Yes, that's an `upgrade' option you see in the top menu now. That's not in this snapshot, but will be in the next (a few days). Feedback, as usual, to David and I, please. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 03:44:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA03024 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:44:03 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA02979 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:42:52 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA01442 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:40:42 +0100 Message-Id: <199510051040.AA01442@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:40:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: Brian Tao "Flaky reboot problem with this SP3G board" (Oct 4, 19:38) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Brian Tao Subject: Re: Flaky reboot problem with this SP3G board Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 4, 19:38, Brian Tao wrote: } Subject: Flaky reboot problem with this SP3G board } On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, David Greenman wrote: } > } > Try just pressing "Enter". The machine actually does a 'halt', not a } > reboot, and it needs a before it will reboot. I don't think virtual } > console switching works at this stage, either, which explains why the machine } > appears dead. } } I hit Enter at first, then spacebar, then I tried the switch } virtual consoles, etc. But after some more fiddling last night, I } think it just might be the hardware itself. The machine was rebooted } five times after I did the installation last night. Twice it hung as } I described, twice it rebooted itself properly and once it cleared the } screen (as if to reboot) and then stayed there. After hitting the } hardware reset, I get a message saying the CMOS checksums don't match } (or something) and that it was reloading the factory defaults. Is } this a bad BIOS revision problem, or bad memory, or what? My SP3G doesn't reboot reliable anymore, after I installed a cheap SoundBlaster clone. I've got to hit reset in about three out of four reboots ... Didn't have time to check for the reaon. Might the kernel debugger still be able to give reasonable output in such a case ? Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 04:54:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA05779 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 04:54:05 -0700 Received: from risc6.unisa.ac.za (risc6.unisa.ac.za [163.200.97.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA05773 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 04:53:58 -0700 Received: by risc6.unisa.ac.za (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA35122; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:28:00 +0200 From: radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Message-Id: <9510051028.AA35122@risc6.unisa.ac.za> Subject: help - lost my 2.0 floppies To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:28:00 +0200 (USAST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 240 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'll appreciate it very much if somebody could send me, or tell me where to download the /floppies subdirectory for 2.0. I just need boot stiffies!!! An hour ago this version was deleted from ftp.freebsd.org. Alex radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 06:19:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA07988 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:19:07 -0700 Received: from itsdsv1.enc.edu (itsdsv1.enc.edu [199.93.252.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA07982 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:19:03 -0700 Received: (from owensc@localhost) by itsdsv1.enc.edu (8.6.11/8.7.2 rev 08/22/95) id JAA16678; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:18:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:18:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Owens To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... In-Reply-To: <199510050304.UAA15215@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Smith said: > The crucial issue in this case is, once the UPS has sounded its death knell, > ie. power's out, and battery holdout is down to a few minutes, what should > one do? > > If you decide to shutdown, and then power comes back, you're stuck > shutdown, waiting for the power failure to reboot you. > If you go single-user, can you arrange to have the daemon survive the > shutdown and send an appropriate signal to the root shell when the power > comes back? > > Or would it be better to reboot and then as part of the boot process wait > for the UPS to give the all-clear? I will be implementing some sort of multi-system UPS (several FreeBSD boxes, an RS/6000, and a Vax) and so I'm very interested in this. I've given this some thought and it seems to me that going down to single user is the best bet. If we use this scheme, then there doesn't have to be any special modifications make to the kernal and it will be much easier to support a variety of UPS's. I know this isn't your priority, but it would be nice if this could be devoloped in some sort of modular fashion, separating the control logic from the UPS-specific interface code. I'm sure others would be interested in seeing such a project fly. Let me know if I can help... --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu "I read somewhere to learn is to Information Technology Services remember... and I've learned that Eastern Nazarene College we've all forgot..." - King's X ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 06:37:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA08402 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:37:03 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA08397 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:36:58 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0t0qSm-0003vnC; Thu, 5 Oct 95 06:35 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA00653; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:35:54 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Charles Owens cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 1995 09:18:28 -0400." Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 14:35:54 +0100 Message-ID: <651.812900154@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I know this isn't your priority, but it would be nice if this could be > devoloped in some sort of modular fashion, separating the control logic > from the UPS-specific interface code. I agree, the right thing is probably to define a interface somehow, but couldn't this be as simple as executing a command with explanatory args: /etc/ups/power_fail \ {first|another|last} \ $estimated_minutes_till_black -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. It will be some time yet before progress goes too far... (Poul Henningsen) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 08:37:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA12088 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:37:59 -0700 Received: from tetsuo.communique.net (Tetsuo.Communique.Net [204.27.64.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA12083 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:37:56 -0700 Received: from tetsuo.communique.net (Tetsuo.Communique.Net [204.27.64.10]) by tetsuo.communique.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA36963 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:37:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:37:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Raul Zighelboim To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: EISA and FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What are the steps required to configure FreeBSD and EISA ? We edited the GENERIC file and added the trivial lines for EISA, but at boot time we get a message similar to: EISA Board 2: no device specified... Sory; I am not by the machine, so I cannot get the exact message. Is the a README or FAQ on EISA + FreeBSD ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raul Zighelboim e-mail: mango@communique.net Communique Inc. Tel: 504.527.6200 Technical Specialist Fax: 504.527.6030 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 08:52:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA12682 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:52:11 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA12676 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:52:02 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA25633 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:49:07 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA01800; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:59:06 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:59:06 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199510051459.JAA01800@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vgalib for FreeBSD! Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: References: <199510030248.UAA27450@rover.village.org> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article , Brian Tao wrote: >On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Warner Losh wrote: >> : Oh great, it looks like the two perl scripts have gotten each >> : other into some sort of feedback loop. ;-) >> Nah, its a Forth program, and a tk program in a loop :-) > If one of them is a Forth program, his lines would come out >something like: (((ham green_eggs) AND) like) NOT; > sam>I; ( fill Sam-I-Am buffer with results of green eggs analysis ) self >r eggs green ham green and dup them ! like I ?do not if Sam-I-Am dup them @ like I ?do not swap ! 2+ dup box in eat not swap ! 2+ dup fox with eat not swap ! 2+ dup plane in car in or train on or swap ! 2+ eggs green ham green and like I ?do not swap ! them @ like I ?do not Sam-I-Am ! then r> drop From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 08:52:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA12697 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:52:19 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA12683 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:52:12 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA25627 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:48:46 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA00892; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:15:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:15:40 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199510051415.JAA00892@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Multi-floppy Install (Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation.) Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <15228.812444517@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk After having to move the disks over to a second system to install a system, because the GENERIC kernel didn't do it, and seeing this... I think the one floppy install was a really nifty idea, but it's a big problem to have an install floppy you can't mount or boot from an alternate kernel. (ok, you *can* mount the boot.flp, but all it's got is /kernel!) There are just too many reasons one might need to build a special install floppy, and right now that's too much of a black art to keep this magic mfs-booted kernel as the only install set. A multi-floppy set is much more practical. 1. You can install with new drivers. 2. You can install with *patched* drivers. 3. You can install with a stripped kernel. 4. You can modify the install for special circumstances, like putting your third-party proprietary stuff in there. You lose a little flash. You gain a lot of functionality. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 08:52:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA12728 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:52:29 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA12714 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:52:23 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA25629 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:48:53 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA01246; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:27:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:27:22 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199510051427.JAA01246@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation. Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509301707.NAA12691@lakes> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199509301707.NAA12691@lakes> you write: > Now, since we know the GENERIC kernel won't do that, can we at least >have instructions on how to build the installation system so we >can put a customer kernel (without all the drivers needed for >the GENERIC case) on some installation floppies? YES YES YES YES YES YES! > And, yes, I know I can use the makefiles, etc... and build the floppies; >etc... but a more novice user would probably appreciate explicit instructions. I've looked through the makefiles, and I'm not a novice user, and I just gave up and installed on another system. 1. The install floppy was broken if you couldn't control the WD controller's sector mapping (please fix this... real geometry actually MEANS something with older WD drives?). 2. The install floppy didn't have the WD7000 driver in it. 3. The install floppy's AHA1542 driver didn't work on the CP. 4. fdisk is broken, so I couldn't install by hand. So it's not just 4MB users who need this. Document how you build an install floppy, and people will do the 4M install for you. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 10:16:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA14993 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:16:30 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA14987 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:16:28 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0t0tuE-0003vqC; Thu, 5 Oct 95 10:16 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00911; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:16:31 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-floppy Install (Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation.) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 1995 09:15:40 EST." <199510051415.JAA00892@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 18:16:30 +0100 Message-ID: <909.812913390@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > There are just too many reasons one might need to build a special install > floppy, and right now that's too much of a black art to keep this magic > mfs-booted kernel as the only install set. A multi-floppy set is much more > practical. > > 1. You can install with new drivers. > 2. You can install with *patched* drivers. > 3. You can install with a stripped kernel. > 4. You can modify the install for special circumstances, like > putting your third-party proprietary stuff in there. > > You lose a little flash. You gain a lot of functionality. We will happily look at your patches to src/release/Makefile and other areas that will need it. If you (or somebody else) dosn't make the patches, they will probably not happen. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. It will be some time yet before progress goes too far... (Poul Henningsen) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 11:52:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA16658 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:52:04 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16653 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:52:02 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02372; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:49:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510051849.LAA02372@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:49:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510050330.NAA17744@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Oct 5, 95 01:00:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1014 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Hiho people, time to talk of UPS' > > We have a customer who'll be running a FreeBSD system (and associated > hardware) off a Fiskars UPS of some description. In order to help us > out, they've supplied me with a complete description of the protocol > that the UPS uses for status reporting. > > Now, I'm not averse to writing a monitoring daemon, but there are a few > issues that I (obviously) need to address with it, and it may well be that > there's someone out there who either has a skeleton for a UPS monitoring > daemon, or who just has the odd suggestion. > > The crucial issue in this case is, once the UPS has sounded its death knell, > ie. power's out, and battery holdout is down to a few minutes, what should > one do? I believe there is a port of a UPS daemon in ports that answers these questions and more... though it's not for a Fiskars UPS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 12:00:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA16839 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:00:01 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16828 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:59:57 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02428; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:58:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510051858.LAA02428@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: vgalib for FreeBSD! To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:58:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510051459.JAA01800@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Oct 5, 95 09:59:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 846 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Peter writes: > ( fill Sam-I-Am buffer with results of green eggs analysis ) > self >r > eggs green ham green and dup them ! like I ?do not if > Sam-I-Am dup them @ like I ?do not swap ! > 2+ dup box in eat not swap ! > 2+ dup fox with eat not swap ! > 2+ dup plane in car in or train on or swap ! > 2+ eggs green ham green and like I ?do not swap ! > them @ like I ?do not Sam-I-Am ! > then > r> drop Congradulations. You have been elected to write the OpenBoot firmware MBR replacement to live in the compatability block on DOS partitioned drives. It's expected that you will need to write a 512 byte boot loader and load the code from a seperate partition. Again, congradulations. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 12:52:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA18338 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:52:17 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18333 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:51:57 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id UAA27552; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:51:36 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA10193; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:51:36 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA09273; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:49:07 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510051949.UAA09273@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: EISA and FreeBSD To: mango@communique.net (Raul Zighelboim) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:49:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Raul Zighelboim" at Oct 5, 95 10:37:24 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 508 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Raul Zighelboim wrote: > > > What are the steps required to configure FreeBSD and EISA ? > We edited the GENERIC file and added the trivial lines for EISA, but > at boot time we get a message similar to: > > EISA Board 2: no device specified... The eisa code is orphaned and defunct (to the best of my knowledge). Simply declare it as isa. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 12:57:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA18434 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:57:11 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18429 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:57:09 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA05479; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:56:20 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510051956.MAA05479@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: EISA and FreeBSD To: mango@communique.net (Raul Zighelboim) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Raul Zighelboim" at Oct 5, 95 10:37:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 781 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The EISA code does not give any added functionality configure your device as though it were an ISA device and use it that way what device? > > > What are the steps required to configure FreeBSD and EISA ? > We edited the GENERIC file and added the trivial lines for EISA, but > at boot time we get a message similar to: > > EISA Board 2: no device specified... > > Sory; I am not by the machine, so I cannot get the exact message. > Is the a README or FAQ on EISA + FreeBSD ? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Raul Zighelboim e-mail: mango@communique.net > Communique Inc. Tel: 504.527.6200 > Technical Specialist Fax: 504.527.6030 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 13:18:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19413 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:18:26 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19408 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:18:23 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA17421; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:17:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199510052017.NAA17421@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: J Wunsch cc: mango@communique.net (Raul Zighelboim), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EISA and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 1995 20:49:06 BST." <199510051949.UAA09273@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 13:17:25 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >As Raul Zighelboim wrote: >> >> >> What are the steps required to configure FreeBSD and EISA ? >> We edited the GENERIC file and added the trivial lines for EISA, but >> at boot time we get a message similar to: >> >> EISA Board 2: no device specified... > >The eisa code is orphaned and defunct (to the best of my knowledge). >Simply declare it as isa. I'm in the process of bringing it back from the dead and cleaning it up. I hope to have it functional again in the comming week. >-- >cheers, J"org > >joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE >Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 13:19:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19511 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:19:43 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19501 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:19:38 -0700 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA19166; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 16:25:20 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 16:25:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199510052025.QAA19166@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-floppy Install (Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation.) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >After having to move the disks over to a second system to install a system, >because the GENERIC kernel didn't do it, and seeing this... > >I think the one floppy install was a really nifty idea, but it's a big >problem to have an install floppy you can't mount or boot from an alternate >kernel. > >(ok, you *can* mount the boot.flp, but all it's got is /kernel!) > >There are just too many reasons one might need to build a special install >floppy, and right now that's too much of a black art to keep this magic >mfs-booted kernel as the only install set. A multi-floppy set is much more >practical. > > 1. You can install with new drivers. > 2. You can install with *patched* drivers. > 3. You can install with a stripped kernel. > 4. You can modify the install for special circumstances, like > putting your third-party proprietary stuff in there. > >You lose a little flash. You gain a lot of functionality. > Right on! db ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Boards and Routers for Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 13:44:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20444 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:44:33 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20430 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:44:22 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA28765 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:44:18 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA10698 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:44:17 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA09650 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:25:40 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510052025.VAA09650@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Kernel kernel, where to put the kernel? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:25:40 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <2930.812879939@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 5, 95 00:58:59 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 914 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The current status is that I've removed PROCFS and PTY support from > the BOOTMFS kernel, hopefully bringing us back down below the dreaded > 1MB limit anyway, but perhaps we should also leave ourselves some > room. My last attempt to build a smaller kernel without PROCFS, pty, all redundant devices (mostly those with a unit number of 1, since they could easily be achieved by boot -c), and without BOUNCE_BUFFERS (not needed for a 4 MB install, apparently :), yielded a kernel with text data bss dec hex 901120 1155072 60348 2116540 204bbc ^^^^^^ Still more than the magic 2 MB limit. :-( (This is the final BOOTMFS kernel, with 1075 KB MFS, as of the Oct 1 src/release/Makefile.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 13:44:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20500 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:44:54 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20480 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:44:48 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA28758 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:44:14 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA10696 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:44:13 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA09599 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:18:35 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510052018.VAA09599@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:18:34 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199510051849.LAA02372@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 5, 95 11:49:40 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 516 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > I believe there is a port of a UPS daemon in ports that answers these > questions and more... though it's not for a Fiskars UPS. I don't think so (there used to be a graphical debugger called ups, are you confusing this, Terry?), but perhaps you could convince Hellmuth Michaelis of making his UPS stuff an official port... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 13:46:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20632 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:46:35 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20587 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:45:32 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA28777; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:44:22 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA10700; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:44:22 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA09751; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:38:14 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510052038.VAA09751@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Syscons patches etc.... To: sos@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:38:13 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510050822.BAA26010@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@freebsd.org" at Oct 5, 95 01:22:34 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 849 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As sos@freebsd.org wrote: > > Allthough the patches has been coming in at at very pleasent rate > lately, I'll ask officially if anybody has something lying around > that they think should be in there.. No patch, but a request: If there's somebody around who's actually using syscons with a German keyboard (i don't), he should provide a really working keyboard map. Something where a µ doesn't display as an æ, Shift-^ actually yields a ° etc. (People with ancient 7-bit mailers could immediately drop this message, since it apparently won't make much sense to them. :-) (p.s.: This includes people sitting behind x.org, as a recent enhancement report to xbugs@x.org told me. :-]) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 13:46:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA20671 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:46:51 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20664 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:46:46 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05605; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:46:21 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510052046.NAA05605@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Multi-floppy Install (Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation.) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510052025.QAA19166@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Oct 5, 95 04:25:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1479 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The One floppy install is now a slight mis-nomer it is a 1++ floppy install boot on it and usr the 'fixit' option to mount a second floppy with whatever you want on it.. (new kernel, additional utilities, whatever) > > >After having to move the disks over to a second system to install a system, > >because the GENERIC kernel didn't do it, and seeing this... > > > >I think the one floppy install was a really nifty idea, but it's a big > >problem to have an install floppy you can't mount or boot from an alternate > >kernel. > > > >(ok, you *can* mount the boot.flp, but all it's got is /kernel!) > > > >There are just too many reasons one might need to build a special install > >floppy, and right now that's too much of a black art to keep this magic > >mfs-booted kernel as the only install set. A multi-floppy set is much more > >practical. > > > > 1. You can install with new drivers. > > 2. You can install with *patched* drivers. > > 3. You can install with a stripped kernel. > > 4. You can modify the install for special circumstances, like > > putting your third-party proprietary stuff in there. > > > >You lose a little flash. You gain a lot of functionality. > > > Right on! > > db > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Boards and Routers for > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC and X.25 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 13:53:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA21297 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:53:16 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21291 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:53:12 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05616; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:51:25 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510052051.NAA05616@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: EISA and FreeBSD To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: j@uriah.heep.sax.de, mango@communique.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510052017.NAA17421@aslan.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Oct 5, 95 01:17:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1274 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >As Raul Zighelboim wrote: > >> > >> > >> What are the steps required to configure FreeBSD and EISA ? > >> We edited the GENERIC file and added the trivial lines for EISA, but > >> at boot time we get a message similar to: > >> > >> EISA Board 2: no device specified... > > > >The eisa code is orphaned and defunct (to the best of my knowledge). > >Simply declare it as isa. > > I'm in the process of bringing it back from the dead and cleaning it up. > I hope to have it functional again in the comming week. can I help? It worked fine, except that it couldn't setup the interrupts for the devices.. (it thought it did but they didn't work) it should be set up so that EISA devices have TEXT_SET or DATA_SET entries for their config lines, so that mere inclusion of the driver makes the EISA code aware of it's existance.. (i.e the file eisadevs.c should go away) julian > > >-- > >cheers, J"org > > > >joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > >Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > > -- > Justin T. Gibbs > =========================================== > Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM > FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations > =========================================== > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 14:19:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA22272 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:19:12 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA22267 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:19:08 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA01145 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:22:10 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199510052122.RAA01145@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: 52gig RAID, causes panic To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:22:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 676 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Guys Im attempting to put a 52GB raid system (shows up as a single fast 52gb drive [this is test not a performance system]) on a FreeBSD 0928-SNAP system, with a BusLogic 946C, the system panics with a integer divide error in the swapon process (according to the panic message). The BT probe messages are returning the correct values for the drive as far as I can tell (6502 cyl, 128 head, 128 sect). Any ideas? I only have access to this for a very short time so if you could find the time to respond, I would be most appreciative. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 14:32:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA22880 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:32:31 -0700 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA22872 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:32:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:32:28 -0700 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199510052132.OAA22872@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Kernel kernel, where to put the kernel? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk If you don't include BOUNCE_BUFFERS, make sure that the system is limited to using 16MB of memory. It can/will hose systems with more than that. Also, the BOUNCE_BUFFERS option takes very little memory on systems with 16MB or less anyway (the memory is not allocated.) John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 14:37:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA23041 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:37:58 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA23028 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:37:34 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0t0xta-000I0yC; Thu, 5 Oct 95 22:32 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0t0xd6-00001AC; Thu, 5 Oct 95 22:15 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: owensc@enc.edu (Charles Owens) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:15:00 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: from "Charles Owens" at Oct 5, 95 09:18:28 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1602 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Mark Smith said: > > > The crucial issue in this case is, once the UPS has sounded its death knell, > > ie. power's out, and battery holdout is down to a few minutes, what should > > one do? > > > > If you decide to shutdown, and then power comes back, you're stuck > > shutdown, waiting for the power failure to reboot you. > > If you go single-user, can you arrange to have the daemon survive the > > shutdown and send an appropriate signal to the root shell when the power > > comes back? > > > > Or would it be better to reboot and then as part of the boot process wait > > for the UPS to give the all-clear? Some time ago i did such a thing for FreeBSD, the current version can be found on ftp.freefall.org in pub/FreeBSD/incoming/freebsd205ups.tar.gz. The thing consists of a device driver with which the status of the AC line is accessible, a daemon constantly monitors it and in case of a power fail it shuts the system down after a specified amount of time, leaving a file "/powerfail" and reboots. When the system comes up again, one of the very first things which is done in /etc/rc is to check whether there exists a file "/powerfail", if so, it enters a tight loop waiting for either AC power coming back or the battery becoming empty. I had to do it this way because the UPS is built-in into the machine and there are only 2 flags available: AC fail and battery OK at power up, nothing else. It works. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 15:22:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA24611 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:22:03 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA24600 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:21:59 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA17861; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:20:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199510052220.PAA17861@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs), j@uriah.heep.sax.de, mango@communique.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EISA and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 1995 13:51:25 PDT." <199510052051.NAA05616@ref.tfs.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 15:20:51 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >The eisa code is orphaned and defunct (to the best of my knowledge). >> >Simply declare it as isa. >> >> I'm in the process of bringing it back from the dead and cleaning it up. >> I hope to have it functional again in the comming week. > >can I help? >It worked fine, except that it couldn't setup the interrupts for the devices.. >(it thought it did but they didn't work) > >it should be set up so that EISA devices have TEXT_SET or DATA_SET entries for >their config lines, so that mere inclusion of the driver >makes the EISA code aware of it's existance.. >(i.e the file eisadevs.c should go away) > >julian I agree that eisaconf.c should go away, but I think that the tables the eisa code uses should be gerneated by config. The problem with how the pci code and the eisa code deal with devices is that they can't be disabled by userconfig, and eisa/pci devices can take unit numbers reservered for isa devices that use the same driver. I already have some plans to clean up the tables that config generates to make them more extensible and then have both pci and eisa devices use entries generated by config. As to the EISA code, I just don't like the way it does its probing. I'm changing the probe routine so that it passess the id strings to the probe routine of each installed driver until it finds a match (just like pci). I'll also be adding shared interrupt support and have the drivers explicitly register their interrupt handlers. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 15:41:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA25455 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:41:59 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA25445 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:41:54 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02816; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:40:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510052240.PAA02816@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:40:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510052018.VAA09599@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Oct 5, 95 09:18:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 712 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I believe there is a port of a UPS daemon in ports that answers these > > questions and more... though it's not for a Fiskars UPS. > > I don't think so (there used to be a graphical debugger called ups, > are you confusing this, Terry?), but perhaps you could convince > Hellmuth Michaelis of making his UPS stuff an official port... There was a monitoring daemon for American Power Corporation UPS's posted to comp.sources.unix. Someone ported it to BSD and posted about its availability to the hackers list. I forget who and my news archive is currently offline. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 16:27:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA27215 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 16:27:08 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA27210 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 16:27:05 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA15212 ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:26:56 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id AAA23879 ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:26:55 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id TAA07048; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:25:41 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199510051825.TAA07048@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: EISA and FreeBSD To: mango@communique.net (Raul Zighelboim) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:25:40 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Raul Zighelboim" at Oct 5, 95 10:37:24 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1165 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Raul Zighelboim said: > What are the steps required to configure FreeBSD and EISA ? Well nothing :-) I have an EISA MB with a BT-747S and a AHA-1740 and never did anything special. Look at the following comment in the LINT file: # ISA and EISA devices: # Currently there is no separate support for EISA. There should be. # Micro Channel is not supported at all. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sun Oct 1 14:44:30 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 17:04:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA28803 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:04:49 -0700 Received: from psychotic.communica.com.au (root@gw.communica.com.au [203.8.94.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA28790 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:04:08 -0700 Received: from communica.com.au (newton@frenzy [192.82.222.1]) by psychotic.communica.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA11387; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:32:34 +0930 Received: by communica.com.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01874; Fri, 6 Oct 95 09:29:21 CST From: newton@communica.com.au (Mark Newton) Message-Id: <9510052359.AA01874@communica.com.au> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:29:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <651.812900154@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Oct 5, 95 02:35:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1746 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > I know this isn't your priority, but it would be nice if this could be > > devoloped in some sort of modular fashion, separating the control logic > > from the UPS-specific interface code. > > I agree, the right thing is probably to define a interface somehow, but > couldn't this be as simple as executing a command with explanatory > args: I mentioned this to miff in private email, but I may as well float it here with the rest of the group: How about another keyword to be inserted in the ty_status field in /etc/ttys, such as: tty08 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt100 on secure tty09 "/usr/sbin/upsmon" none ups The "ups" keyword would mean, "respawn this process upon entry to multiuser mode; continue to respawn it until the CPU halts, regardless of changes between multiuser and singleuser state." ... then all the UPS-specific interface code would be handled by the UPS-specific "/usr/sbin/upsmon" process. The advantage of this approach is that upsmon would then continue to run in single-user mode, meaning that if you ever shut the system down on the expectation that the batteries are about to run out, and the power comes back on as soon as you've hit single-user mode, upsmon will still be able to see that event and wake the system up again (which eliminates the possibility of getting stuck in single-user mode if you do a shutdown 3 seconds before the mains power comes back online). Even really stupid UPSs would work well with this feature :-) - mark --- Mark Newton Email: newton@communica.com.au Systems Engineer Phone: +61-8-373-2523 Communica Systems WWW: http://www.communica.com.au From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 17:12:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA29082 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:12:51 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA29076 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:12:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA27656 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:16:28 -0400 Message-Id: <199510060016.UAA27656@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Another rushed beta test? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 20:16:27 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >From what I can gather we are going to have another rushed beta test. By that I mean that there will be something like a week beta test of the final product before it is pressed onto CD. Is this correct? And, btw, I don't think that SNAPs qualify as beta-test targets, since they are activly developed between their releases. They are more like alpha releases. A beta test is supposed to test the final product to verify the *non-existence* of critical bugs... I don't have the resources to test alpha-quality software whereas I *can* test beta-quality software, give adequate time (which means more than just one week). Testing software implies *cost* for many otherwise willing people who *could* give valuable input if this were handled differently. This is disapointing because I was led to believe that things would be different this time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 17:20:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA29335 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:20:51 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA29328 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:20:43 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id UAA05984; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:11:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:11:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: help - lost my 2.0 floppies To: "A. Radovanovic" cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9510051028.AA35122@risc6.unisa.ac.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, A. Radovanovic wrote: > I'll appreciate it very much if somebody could send me, or tell me where to > download the /floppies subdirectory for 2.0. I just need boot stiffies!!! An > hour ago this version was deleted from ftp.freebsd.org. kryten.atinc.com:/pub/FreeBSD/2.0-RELEASE/floppies > > Alex > radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 17:30:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA29559 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:30:41 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA29553 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:30:36 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA06191; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 02:38:28 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA24897 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 6 Oct 1995 01:31:22 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA26011 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Fri, 6 Oct 1995 01:14:43 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA01434; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:47:07 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199510052347.AAA01434@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: 52gig RAID, causes panic To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:47:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510052122.RAA01145@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Oct 5, 95 05:22:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1341 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi Guys Im attempting to put a 52GB raid system (shows up as a single fast 52gb > drive [this is test not a performance system]) on a FreeBSD 0928-SNAP system, > with a BusLogic 946C, the system panics with a integer divide error in the > swapon process (according to the panic message). > > The BT probe messages are returning the correct values for the drive as far as > I can tell (6502 cyl, 128 head, 128 sect). > > Any ideas? I only have access to this for a very short time so if you could > find the time to respond, I would be most appreciative. > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu I once tried something similar. In my case I got SCSI errors (obscure ones) with 2.0.5. Will try it again when I have some more spare time. I can probably make a 14 x 2 Gb filesys. We hope to get more 4G drives so maybe I can try 14 x 4.3 Gb in the future ;-) Before someone starts wondering: this is stuff at work.. BTW are multiple LUNs working well? Our RAID systems make heavy use of 'm. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 17:43:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA00230 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:43:22 -0700 Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA00210 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:43:17 -0700 Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0t10sc-0009YEC; Thu, 5 Oct 95 17:43 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:43:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Atapi.flp broken! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I downloaded atapi.flp from the latest snapshot and it doesn't even boot! It gets to "uncompressing kernel...done" and then spontaneously reboots (or hangs the system, depending on which computer I use). Is anyone else having this problem? Perhaps your kernel was too big to fit on the floppy and got truncated? ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 18:36:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA02177 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:36:15 -0700 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA02169 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:36:13 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23896; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id VAA13177; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:35:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Terry Lambert cc: J Wunsch , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... In-Reply-To: <199510052240.PAA02816@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I believe there is a port of a UPS daemon in ports that answers these > > > questions and more... though it's not for a Fiskars UPS. > > > > I don't think so (there used to be a graphical debugger called ups, > > are you confusing this, Terry?), but perhaps you could convince > > Hellmuth Michaelis of making his UPS stuff an official port... > > There was a monitoring daemon for American Power Corporation UPS's > posted to comp.sources.unix. > > Someone ported it to BSD and posted about its availability to the > hackers list. I forget who and my news archive is currently offline. I wanted to do a program myself like this, but I was hung up on one question. Many UPSs are going to be used to monitor more than one machine, so such a program (it seems to me) is going to have to have a local monitoring part, and a remote 'I take orders' part. This thing is going to be on the network, then, and have the ability to shut machines down, directly or indirectly. How then is security controlled? It's not too tough a problem on the machine that listens to the UPS port, but on the other machines, I don't see it clearly. The async port is two way, so only one machine at a time can talk to it. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 18:47:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA02734 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:47:31 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA02729 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:47:28 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA00522; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:46:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510060146.SAA00522@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:46:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Oct 5, 95 09:35:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1051 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I wanted to do a program myself like this, but I was hung up on one > question. Many UPSs are going to be used to monitor more than one > machine, so such a program (it seems to me) is going to have to have a > local monitoring part, and a remote 'I take orders' part. This thing is > going to be on the network, then, and have the ability to shut machines > down, directly or indirectly. How then is security controlled? > > It's not too tough a problem on the machine that listens to the UPS port, > but on the other machines, I don't see it clearly. The async port is two > way, so only one machine at a time can talk to it. 1) Assume the host that monitors the thing is up if the thing is up. 2) Make a TCP connection to a priveledged port on that host. Retry at intervals if necessary. 3) It writes you on the connection you made when it wants to notify you of some event. Fairly easy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 18:58:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA03207 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:58:01 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03202 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:57:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA08023; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:56:34 -0700 To: Robert Withrow cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another rushed beta test? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 1995 20:16:27 EDT." <199510060016.UAA27656@spooky.rwwa.com> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 18:56:34 -0700 Message-ID: <8020.812944594@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >From what I can gather we are going to have another rushed > beta test. By that I mean that there will be something like > a week beta test of the final product before it is pressed > onto CD. Is this correct? But we DO take the point of view that the snaps are BETA test targets, especially given that all the changes we've applied since 2.0.5 are either low-impact or on the critical bug-fixing path. Some here may have some criticism about the way some changes were taken across, and that's an entirely different topic that we can elect to embark upon later, if so desired, but I don't think that anyone can say that the SNAPs haven't constituted a form of BETA testing. I've certainly received more valuable feedback from the 3 different SNAPs I've done than I *ever* received from any of the single BETAs we did in the past. The BETAs were insufficiently timely or "granular" in scope (e.g. carefully and incrementally changed over the previous release) and I can't say that they ever really lived up to their billing. We *called* them BETAs, but for us and the users they generally had a different meaning and usage. > releases. They are more like alpha releases. A beta test > is supposed to test the final product to verify the > *non-existence* of critical bugs... I don't have the > resources to test alpha-quality software whereas I > *can* test beta-quality software, give adequate time > (which means more than just one week). Testing software > implies *cost* for many otherwise willing people who > *could* give valuable input if this were handled > differently. We're doing this as best we can given limitations on our own resources and the resources of the community. I'd furthermore say that the last couple of SNAPs have been BETA quality, so you're free to jump in at any time, with or without the BETA label. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 19:02:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA03572 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:02:28 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA03551 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:02:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA08095; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:02:12 -0700 To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Atapi.flp broken! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Oct 1995 17:43:10 PDT." Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 19:02:12 -0700 Message-ID: <8093.812944932@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I downloaded atapi.flp from the latest snapshot and it doesn't even > boot! It gets to "uncompressing kernel...done" and then spontaneously > reboots (or hangs the system, depending on which computer I use). Is > anyone else having this problem? Perhaps your kernel was too big to fit > on the floppy and got truncated? I'm investigating this - sorry for the gross failure to function! I'm not sure what's going on - there's not THAT much different between the two floppies, and I hardly expected the ATAPI driver to cause instant reboots. Thanks for the quick feedback, in any case! :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 20:15:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA06762 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:15:13 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA06757 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:15:10 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24050; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id XAA13972; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:14:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... In-Reply-To: <199510060146.SAA00522@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I wanted to do a program myself like this, but I was hung up on one > > question. Many UPSs are going to be used to monitor more than one > > machine, so such a program (it seems to me) is going to have to have a > > local monitoring part, and a remote 'I take orders' part. This thing is > > going to be on the network, then, and have the ability to shut machines > > down, directly or indirectly. How then is security controlled? > > > > It's not too tough a problem on the machine that listens to the UPS port, > > but on the other machines, I don't see it clearly. The async port is two > > way, so only one machine at a time can talk to it. > > 1) Assume the host that monitors the thing is up if the thing > is up. > > 2) Make a TCP connection to a priveledged port on that host. > Retry at intervals if necessary. > > 3) It writes you on the connection you made when it wants to notify > you of some event. I don't find 'privileged ports' in my trusty O'Reillly TCP/IP book, could you give me a reference? I just don't see, right now, what would stop someone with a packet sniffer, finding how I communicate, then spoofing the remote. I know how to set up connections, I'm wondering about security, and how much is enough, when I'm talking about something that can shut down the machine. > > Fairly easy. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 20:38:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA07437 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:38:35 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07431 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:38:30 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA02444 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:41:29 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199510060341.XAA02444@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: IMPORTANT: 0928-SNAP, Enlessly increasing swap To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:41:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 865 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The problems with swap that appears to continually grow and never shrink appear to be back in 950928-SNAP :( :(. Right now im using 54% of Swap (41 under an hour ago), with X running (same X as I've been running for months and months). There are no xterms or anything else. Yesterday it got so bad that no matter what commands I executed they where killed. After I killed off all but one xterm I was able to run commands. I left the system alone, and by the next morning I was again in the same out of memory situation, and had to reboot. This really needs to be investigated before we go with 2.1.0! My swap is only 10mb more than real ram (42mb vs 32mb), could this be causing some problems with the vm/swap algorithms ? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 20:41:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA07528 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:41:03 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07521 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:40:45 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA20302; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:36:21 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510060406.NAA20302@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: owensc@enc.edu (Charles Owens) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:36:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: from "Charles Owens" at Oct 5, 95 09:18:28 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1932 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Charles Owens stands accused of saying: > > Mark Smith said: How'd you get "mark"? 8) > I will be implementing some sort of multi-system UPS (several FreeBSD > boxes, an RS/6000, and a Vax) and so I'm very interested in this. > > I've given this some thought and it seems to me that going down to single > user is the best bet. If we use this scheme, then there doesn't have to > be any special modifications make to the kernal and it will be much > easier to support a variety of UPS's. Hmm, Newt's scheme for a modified init appeals, but it's a fairly deep change to make. If people like it, we can go that way. > I know this isn't your priority, but it would be nice if this could be > devoloped in some sort of modular fashion, separating the control logic > from the UPS-specific interface code. Actually, remaining as independant of the UPS modem as possible is a very high priority, as we're likely to have to support several different models in the near future. > I'm sure others would be interested in seeing such a project fly. Indeed. I'm not sure that this is an appropriate topic for -hackers, so if people want to register their interest with me, I'll set up an alias here for us. > Let me know if I can help... Tell me what model of UPS you're planning on using, and let me know when you have the programming docco for it, and I'll make sure that the overall model means you can write a simple dropin module for it, and keep you up to date on the work as it progresses. > Charles Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 20:47:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA07675 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:47:40 -0700 Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07660 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:47:32 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA06711; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:47:29 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199510060347.UAA06711@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Syscons patches etc.... To: sos@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510050822.BAA26010@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@freebsd.org" at Oct 5, 95 01:22:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 942 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I'm in the process of overhauling syscons, and applying all kinds > of bug fixes to it, plus some new funcionality. > Allthough the patches has been coming in at at very pleasent rate > lately, I'll ask officially if anybody has something lying around > that they think should be in there.. > > Also I'd appreaciate if nobody puts anything into the sources at > the moment, as its going to be a major pain for me. > I hope to have the first round of changes committed during the next > week or so. Was the fax of the pages from the Gulie book on the type 1 vs type 2 keyboard controller of any help in resolving the PS/2 keyboard controller problems? More specifically have you been able to incorporate a detection of type 2 keyboard controllers and added the needed delays? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 20:50:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA07877 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:50:37 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07866 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:50:27 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA20329; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:46:07 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510060416.NAA20329@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: newton@communica.com.au (Mark Newton) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:46:07 +0930 (CST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9510052359.AA01874@communica.com.au> from "Mark Newton" at Oct 6, 95 09:29:20 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1462 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Newton stands accused of saying: > I mentioned this to miff in private email, but I may as well float > it here with the rest of the group: How about another keyword to be > inserted in the ty_status field in /etc/ttys, such as: > > tty08 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt100 on secure > tty09 "/usr/sbin/upsmon" none ups > > The "ups" keyword would mean, "respawn this process upon entry to multiuser > mode; continue to respawn it until the CPU halts, regardless of changes > between multiuser and singleuser state." I'd be inclined to call the keyword "always", but it certainly makes a degree of sense. > ... then all the UPS-specific interface code would be handled by the > UPS-specific "/usr/sbin/upsmon" process. ... with, fe. /usr/sbin/upscontrol to send commands to a given UPS type & extract status &c. &c. > Even really stupid UPSs would work well with this feature :-) It appeals - I'm not 100% sure that the FreeBSD Board of Directors ( 8) ) will approve of the idea though 8( > Mark Newton Email: newton@communica.com.au -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 21:52:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA09555 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:52:08 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA09550 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:52:04 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA01442 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:32:15 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA15111 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:21:46 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199510060421.XAA15111@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Multi-floppy Install (Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation.) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:21:45 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199510052046.NAA05605@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Oct 5, 95 01:46:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1209 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The One floppy install is now a slight mis-nomer > it is a 1++ floppy install > boot on it > and usr the 'fixit' option to mount a second floppy with whatever > you want on it.. (new kernel, additional utilities, whatever) That's a good start, but it goes the wrong direction... the problem is, how do you install with a custom kernel rather than custom tools? Just documenting the existing mechanism would be a start... Like... what's the reason for uuencoding libgcc.so.261.0 ????? Where did that come from? /usr/src/release/Makefile is a wondrous thing to behold... when I was fighting with installing the system I looked in there and sort of yelped... (Jordan, I'm not belittling the acheivement... I'm just utterly at sea here. It's definitely rocket science... I'm also fully aware that it's agonizingly close to 2.1, too close for changes... But it's a beautiful technical solution to a problem that doesn't need to be solved. Installing off a single floppy is clever, but do people really need it? I've been doing install-kit patches for weird hardware since Xenix 3.5 in the 1987 time frame, and it's frustrating to be unable to go in and easily modify things or roll a new kernel.) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 22:36:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA11168 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:36:46 -0700 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA11156 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:36:37 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA27920; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:36:27 -0600 Message-Id: <199510060536.XAA27920@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Steve Passe To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Brian Tao Subject: Re: Preformatted man pages and 2.1.0-950928-SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Oct 1995 19:50:30 EDT." Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 23:36:27 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > Is anyone else having problems with pre-formatted man pages with > the September snapshot? man(1) appears to ignore the presence of > preformatted man pages. I've created all the cat* directories in > /usr/share/man and /usr/local/man, man(1) will save the preformatted > pages in there, but subsequent invocations still produce the > "Formatting page, please wait" message. Running catman doesn't help > either. All the directories are world-readable and owned by user man, > group man. Any ideas? With 950922 I saw the same problem, but slighly different specifics: my problem was that /usr/bin/man was a SUID program, owned by user man while all the xxx/catn directories were owned by user bin. Running man as root worked, ie it formatted and found the formated files next invocation, but man failed for joe user. I 'chown bin /usr/bin/man' and it started to work. I can't get xman to work properly for joe user. if run by root xman asks if you want to save the formatted file, and does the good thing.... but if joe user runs xman it never asks joe about saving the formatted version. Anyone have a fix for this problem?? -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 23:18:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA13323 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:18:37 -0700 Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA13315 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:18:34 -0700 Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA02872; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:22:34 -0600 From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199510060622.AAA02872@hemi.com> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Oct 5, 95 11:14:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1408 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I don't find 'privileged ports' in my trusty O'Reillly TCP/IP book, could > you give me a reference? It refers to port numbers below 1024. In Unix systems, only the super-user can bind a socket to listen to ports < 1024. It is an "extra" bit of security, but easily defeated if someone has root priviledges or run a non-Unix operating system on the wire. > I just don't see, right now, what would stop someone with a packet > sniffer, finding how I communicate, then spoofing the remote. Authentication is always a problem when dealing with client-server programs. You need to devise a way for the programs to authenticate themselves, perhaps by using encryption methods. Popular protocols use "challenge passwords" to verify that each end is properly authorized. A simple scheme is to have a specific "shutdown password" that is only sent when a shutdown is necessary, and changes each time the system is shut down. This scheme defeats packet sniffing since 1) the password is not normally sent for simple status checks and 2) when it is sent, it is immediately changed. Of course, if someone is packet sniffing your internal organization's wire, you have bigger problems. -Ade Barkah -------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 23:21:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA13482 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:21:10 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA13472 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:21:06 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA11107 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:21:02 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA13916 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:21:02 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA11955 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 06:56:52 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510060556.GAA11955@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Kernel kernel, where to put the kernel? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 06:56:52 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199510052132.OAA22872@freefall.freebsd.org> from "John Dyson" at Oct 5, 95 02:32:28 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 479 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As John Dyson wrote: > > If you don't include BOUNCE_BUFFERS, make sure that the > system is limited to using 16MB of memory. It can/will I was playing with a second BOOTMFS kernel, to live on a second floppy specific for low-memory systems. Anyway, BOUNCE_BUFFERS doesn't seem to save that much... you're right. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 23:23:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA13755 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:23:53 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA13746 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:23:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199510060623.XAA13746@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Syscons patches etc.... To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sos@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510060347.UAA06711@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Oct 5, 95 08:47:28 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1181 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Rodney W. Grimes who wrote: > > > > I'm in the process of overhauling syscons, and applying all kinds > > of bug fixes to it, plus some new funcionality. > > Allthough the patches has been coming in at at very pleasent rate > > lately, I'll ask officially if anybody has something lying around > > that they think should be in there.. > > > > Also I'd appreaciate if nobody puts anything into the sources at > > the moment, as its going to be a major pain for me. > > I hope to have the first round of changes committed during the next > > week or so. > > Was the fax of the pages from the Gulie book on the type 1 vs type 2 > keyboard controller of any help in resolving the PS/2 keyboard controller > problems? More specifically have you been able to incorporate a detection > of type 2 keyboard controllers and added the needed delays? Yes, I have got it. And yes its in the pile of changes I plan to incorporate, and no I have no way to test if it works :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 5 23:25:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA13874 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:25:52 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA13865 ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:25:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199510060625.XAA13865@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Syscons patches etc.... To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sos@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510052038.VAA09751@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Oct 5, 95 09:38:13 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 885 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to J Wunsch who wrote: > > As sos@freebsd.org wrote: > > > > Allthough the patches has been coming in at at very pleasent rate > > lately, I'll ask officially if anybody has something lying around > > that they think should be in there.. > > No patch, but a request: If there's somebody around who's actually > using syscons with a German keyboard (i don't), he should provide a > really working keyboard map. Something where a _ doesn't display as > an _, Shift-^ actually yields a _ etc. Hmm, are there more than one German layout, the one currently in the tree has been done by a german :) Other than that, if somebody has a "real" german map, please let me know.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 01:32:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA16956 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 01:32:09 -0700 Received: from condor.physics.montana.edu (condor.physics.montana.edu [153.90.240.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA16951 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 01:32:05 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by condor.physics.montana.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA00634; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 02:31:34 -0600 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 02:31:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Charlie ROOT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: 0928-SNAP, Enlessly increasing swap In-Reply-To: <199510060341.XAA02444@crh.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The problems with swap that appears to continually grow and never shrink appear > to be back in 950928-SNAP :( :(. Right now im using 54% of Swap (41 under an > hour ago), with X running (same X as I've been running for months and months). I'm having what appears to be a similar problem with 2.0.5. I see used swap space go up as users do their thing (netscape and X are particular culprits), but I've NEVER seen it go down. We invariably end up rebooting every 3 days or so when we can't log in anymore. The system log says I'm out of swap space, though I've never been able to be on the system and watch it die when it runs out -- I see it hit maybe 50%, and then the next time I come back we have to reboot. I was wondering if maybe it was something else, but I haven't been able to draw any other connections. Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 02:13:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA18572 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 02:13:05 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA18550 ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 02:12:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA14788; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 02:12:53 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org cc: announce@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Updated 2.1.0-951005-SNAP floppies now available. Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 02:12:52 -0700 Message-ID: <14785.812970772@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Since another snap is fairly close, I just updated the floppy images in-place on freefall and ftp.cdrom.com. If you see boot, atapi and root floppy images dated Oct 6th or later, these are the updated floppies. This update should fix the 4MB boot problem (4MB users - please test!) and also make the ATAPI boot floppy usable. IDE CDROM owners, please test this too! Thanks go to Gary Jennejohn and Peter Wemm for the timely kzip fixes that make this work. Some other look-and-feel tweaks were made in this update, but none worth mentioning specifically. Next snapshot will feature: o Last kernel changes from -current folded in by David. o A working package-picker (I'm doing this now). o A primitive but functional upgrade-from-2.0.5 option (doing this too). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 05:20:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA26943 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 05:20:32 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA26938 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 05:20:28 -0700 Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA02937; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:07:52 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199510061207.IAA02937@hda.com> Subject: Re: 52gig RAID, causes panic To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510052347.AAA01434@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Oct 6, 95 00:47:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 481 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Before someone starts wondering: this is stuff at work.. > > BTW are multiple LUNs working well? Our RAID systems make heavy use of 'm. I just used multiple LUNS while testing a scanner and it worked OK. There were reports of failures with multiple LUNS with a CD changer, though it may not be LUN related. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 07:30:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA29244 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:30:35 -0700 Received: from deputy.pavilion.co.uk (deputy.pavilion.co.uk [194.193.24.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29236 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:30:30 -0700 Received: from poolb29.pavilion.co.uk (poolb29.pavilion.co.uk [194.193.28.93]) by deputy.pavilion.co.uk (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id PAA21230 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:29:10 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:29:10 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199510061429.PAA21230@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> X-Sender: aledm@mailhost.pavilion.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: aledm@pavilion.co.uk (Aled Morris) Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... X-Mailer: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 09:35 PM 10/5/95, Chuck Robey wrote: [re UPS daemon] >I wanted to do a program myself like this, but I was hung up on one >question. Many UPSs are going to be used to monitor more than one >machine, Also, the daemon should support SNMP-capable UPS's which send traps (or which can be polled) for status. Aled -- telephone +44 973 207987 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 08:50:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA02762 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:50:51 -0700 Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA02757 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:50:45 -0700 Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA02120; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:50:09 -0400 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:50 EDT Received: from lakes (lakes [192.96.3.39]) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA12118; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:44:39 -0400 Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA21537; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:57:07 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:57:07 -0400 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199510051057.GAA21537@lakes> To: ic.net!rdm@dg-rtp.dg.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: system crash - help! Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2172 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rob Misiak () writes: > Terry Lambert ("Re: system crash - help!") wrote: > > > > > Ok, in case anyone is interested, I fixed the problem. What happened is > > > fsck (I think that's what did this) marked some files - including /etc/ttys > > > (causing the login problem) and /etc/hosts - character devices. I luckily > > > had the 2.0.5-release CD lying around, so I replaced all of the messed up > > > files > > > > What do you mean "marked"... you mean "moved to lost+found"? I hope? > > > > > > Unfortunately, no. The files were in the same places that they normally were, > except (according to ls -l) they were character devices. It happened to many > random files all over the / partition. Fortunately, I kept backups and I was > able to restore the files. > > Rob > I have just had a recent confirmation of this phenomena (much to my chagrin.) On a FreeBSD 2.0.5 system, running the distributed GENERIC kernel; on a 386dx-33 with 8meg, NE2000 ether, HGA screen, AHA1542B w/ an old micropolis 635meg driver. I walked in the office and the machine had mysteriously rebooted, although the machine next to it hadn't. The fsck during the reboot had failed, dropping me into the `sh'. When running the fsck myself, I discovered that just about every file in /dev had been scribbled over (like the inode for the directory had been mucked-around.) This wasn't so bad, since I could recover MAKEDEV and reconstruct the /dev directory. Interestingly enough, several files become immutable in this process, making it a pain to get rid of the old /dev directory when everything was back up-and-running. I just wanted to echo Rod's observations. Also, I wanted to make sure there wasn't a problem with the drive itself. I dropped into the Adaptect BIOS routines and asked for a SCSI verify. No problems on the driver were located/remapped. Finally, the machine has been running since a week after the 2.0.5 release, without seeing this problem. It saw this problem about once a month with the 2.0 release. Of course, this could all be associated with an aging drive dropping bits every-now-and-then. - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 09:27:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA03909 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:27:58 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA03891 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:27:51 -0700 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02206 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:27:43 -0600 Message-Id: <199510061627.KAA02206@rover.village.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FYI Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 10:27:43 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Looks like the FSF people are considering stopping to use the name "linux" as an OS name, and start using the distribution name, eg "slackware" or "debian" or "bogus". Seems like there is too much variation in the different subflavors of Linux to properly configure the system just knowing Linux is running. It is all in the initial, "kick it around" stages right now, so maybe it won't happen. I thought this forum would be amused by it, since they have had to deal with the NetBSD vs FreeBSD vs 386BSD vs BSDi for some time now. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 09:32:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA04181 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:32:28 -0700 Received: from port27.hubbard2.t.ic.net (root@port27.hubbard2.t.ic.net [152.160.88.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04166 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:32:22 -0700 Received: (from rob@localhost) by port27.hubbard2.t.ic.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA00316; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:26:07 -0400 Posted-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:26:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199510061626.MAA00316@port27.hubbard2.t.ic.net> Subject: Re: system crash - help! To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) In-Reply-To: <199510051852.LAA02394@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 5, 95 11:52:25 am From: "Rob Misiak" Reply-To: rdm@ic.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 518 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert ("Re: system crash - help!") wrote: > > This is interesting, yet impossible. 8-). > > Are you perchance running an RZ1000 based IDE controller? > Err, I have absolutely no idea. :-) The controller (IDE) was a very inexpensive one that I picked up from a local computer store when I was having problems with my old one. I checked the documentation, and it didn't mention anything like 'RZ1000' anywhere, so I suppose not. It's a basic ISA IDE controller ("Acculogic sIDE-3", if that helps any). Rob From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 10:01:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA04978 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:01:24 -0700 Received: from port03.hubbard2.t.ic.net (root@port03.hubbard2.t.ic.net [152.160.88.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA04973 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:01:20 -0700 Received: (from rob@localhost) by port27.hubbard2.t.ic.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA00316; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:26:07 -0400 Posted-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:26:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199510061626.MAA00316@port27.hubbard2.t.ic.net> Subject: Re: system crash - help! To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) In-Reply-To: <199510051852.LAA02394@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 5, 95 11:52:25 am From: "Rob Misiak" Reply-To: rdm@ic.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 518 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert ("Re: system crash - help!") wrote: > > This is interesting, yet impossible. 8-). > > Are you perchance running an RZ1000 based IDE controller? > Err, I have absolutely no idea. :-) The controller (IDE) was a very inexpensive one that I picked up from a local computer store when I was having problems with my old one. I checked the documentation, and it didn't mention anything like 'RZ1000' anywhere, so I suppose not. It's a basic ISA IDE controller ("Acculogic sIDE-3", if that helps any). Rob From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 11:03:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07883 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:03:17 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07874 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:02:59 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id TAA03586 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:02:49 +0100 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA14105 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:40:33 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199510061740.SAA14105@knobel.gun.de> Subject: -stable: kernel compile problems since a few days.. undefined symbols. Why ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:40:33 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3719 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Heeelllppp !!! ;-)) Someone here who knows more about this ??? machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident KNOBEL_AHCTAG maxusers 32 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=5" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options AHC_TAGENABLE config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller ahc0 controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xcc000 vector edintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter When linking kernel: cd9660_lookup.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_lookup.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_lookup.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_lookup.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_733' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_733' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: More undefined symbol _isonum_711 refs follow cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_723' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_723' referenced from text segment cd9660_node.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_733' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_731' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_731' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_731' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_731' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_733' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_733' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_733' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_733' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_733' referenced from text segment cd9660_rrip.o: More undefined symbol _isonum_733 refs follow cd9660_vfsops.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_723' referenced from text segment scsi_base.o: Undefined symbol `_memcmp' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 ?????? Andreas /// -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 11:04:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07960 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:04:37 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07945 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:04:26 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id TAA03569; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:02:45 +0100 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA14046; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:37:40 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199510061737.SAA14046@knobel.gun.de> Subject: Re: results of cd /usr/src; time make all To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:37:40 +0100 (MET) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199510042112.WAA01880@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Oct 4, 95 10:12:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 973 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It seems that Andreas Klemm said: > > > This seems *much* slower. This box is running -stable, and built a > > > -stable make world. > > > > Please note, that I did a 'make all', not a 'make world'. A make all > > doesn't have the additional stages of recompiliing developement tools > > and the libs before doing a 'make all install'... > > Rhaaa, I knew it ! You were cheating !!! :-) Is it my fault, if you aren't reading closely ??? ;-)) Happy weekend ! BTW: My wife and I will celebrate our 7th wedding day. We will have a big meal, fine wine .... aaahhh ... and tomorrow I'll have to go to work again (although it's Saturday :-() because we are changing our network completely in the company ... uaaahhhh ... bad luck ;-) -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 11:19:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA08483 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:19:22 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA08438 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:17:18 -0700 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA11820 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:15:15 +0100 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:15:15 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199510061815.TAA11820@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: 951005-SNAP atapi.flp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I tried to build a 64M / 64M swap (no /usr) on a 1080 MB SCSI Quantum Fireball since my /usr is on another disk which is presently at home. So I said W in the Label menu and got: First a warning that I didn't have a /usr FS (which was not technically an error) and then: Unable to make new root file system! Command returned status 1. Quitting the Label menu got me so far that the filesystem was created. Admittedly, this is not the normal way but shouldn't the W option at least allow for creating the filesystems at this point? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 11:45:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA09447 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:45:35 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA09438 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:45:26 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA20357; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:42:53 +1000 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:42:53 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510061842.EAA20357@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -stable: kernel compile problems since a few days.. undefined symbols. Why ? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >When linking kernel: >cd9660_lookup.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment >... >scsi_base.o: Undefined symbol `_memcmp' referenced from text segment This happens if the kernel is compiled without -O. Then some `extern inline' functions and some builtin functions disappear. Fixed in -current. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 11:56:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA09901 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:56:15 -0700 Received: from gw0.telebase.com (root@gw0.telebase.com [192.132.57.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA09893 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:56:11 -0700 Received: from wormhole.telebase.com by gw0.telebase.com id PAA29902 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:14:40 -0400 Received: from enterprise.telebase.com (tootill@enterprise.telebase.com [172.16.2.250]) by wormhole.telebase.com (8.6.12/8.6.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA25561 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:19:07 -0400 Received: (from tootill@localhost) by enterprise.telebase.com (8.6.10/8.6.9.1) id OAA27000; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:57:07 -0400 From: Ed Tootill Message-Id: <199510061857.OAA27000@telebase.com.> Subject: rarpd & BPF To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Cc: tootill@telebase.com (Ed Tootill) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 911 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I need to get rarpd running on two bsd pc's. The man page for rarpd says I need BPF, Berkeley Packet Filter, configured into the kernel. I didn't find any references to BPF in the kernel file. Anybody know how to obtain BPF. Is it S/W I need to download or buy, is it just an addition to the kernel? Any assistance will be appreciated. A litle more info in case this sounds familiar. Since we changed IP addresses on the other side of the sun router I cannot do lookups, 'r' command, cannot get to the name server from the BSD side of the network. I left one BSD machine unchanged from when it last worked correctly and the other has been reloaded. I painstakingly troubleshot this problem. I've tried defaultrouters, static routes. . . . I can ping the bsd machines from the other side of the router. I can do all 'r' commands if I use IP numbers instead of names. Ed Tootill, Telebase Systems From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 12:21:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA10705 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:21:43 -0700 Received: from gold.interlog.com (gold.interlog.com [198.53.145.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA10700 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:21:39 -0700 Received: from lotbiniere.interlog.com (lotbiniere.interlog.com [198.53.146.76]) by gold.interlog.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA04446 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:21:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lotbiniere.interlog.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01745 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:25:30 -0400 Message-Id: <199510061925.PAA01745@lotbiniere.interlog.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lotbiniere.interlog.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Michel Joly de Lotbiniere Reply-to: mjdl@interlog.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Terminal Information Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 15:25:29 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just bumped into this WWW page: ftp://cs.utk.edu/pub/shuford/terminal/general_info.html which has an enormous number of links to info about terminals, for those who need it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 14:33:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA17354 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:33:58 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17333 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:33:50 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA08667; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:33:46 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA05192; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:33:22 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA13769; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:12:54 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510062112.WAA13769@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Multi-floppy Install (Re: FreeBSD 2.1 will require a minimum of 8MB for installation.) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:12:53 +0100 (MET) Cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510052025.QAA19166@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Oct 5, 95 04:25:20 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 325 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As dennis wrote: > > Right on! Sorry, but whom did you send the diffs? (Ok, i think you're doing a great job with your frame relay etc. stuff, just kidding...) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 14:34:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA17379 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:34:03 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17336 ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:33:52 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA08676; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:33:48 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA05198; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:33:48 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA13825; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:17:34 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510062117.WAA13825@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Syscons patches etc.... To: sos@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:17:33 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510060625.XAA13865@freefall.freebsd.org> from "sos@freebsd.org" at Oct 5, 95 11:25:48 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 669 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As sos@freebsd.org wrote: > > > really working keyboard map. Something where a _ doesn't display as > > an _, Shift-^ actually yields a _ etc. ick. I thought Danes were using 8-bit ISO "umlauts", but apparently Danish mailers are not... > Hmm, are there more than one German layout, the one currently in > the tree has been done by a german :) It's obviously incomplete, only the main umlaut keys do work correctly. (This is at least with 2.0.5, that's what we're shipping to our FreeBSD customers.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 14:37:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA17640 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:37:04 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17626 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:36:51 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA08756; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:34:14 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA05211; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:34:09 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA13971; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:30:43 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510062130.WAA13971@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Preformatted man pages and 2.1.0-950928-SNAP To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:30:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, taob@io.org In-Reply-To: <199510060536.XAA27920@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Oct 5, 95 11:36:27 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 581 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Steve Passe wrote: > > With 950922 I saw the same problem, but slighly different specifics: > my problem was that /usr/bin/man was a SUID program, owned by user > man while all the xxx/catn directories were owned by user bin. The cat directories belong to user "man". It's one of the stranger things that all our cat dirs magically disappear (or are being transfered to somebody else) in all our recent releases. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 14:39:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA17820 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:39:18 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17811 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:39:12 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02193; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:36:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510062136.OAA02193@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: system crash - help! To: rdm@ic.net Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:36:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199510061626.MAA00316@port27.hubbard2.t.ic.net> from "Rob Misiak" at Oct 6, 95 12:26:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 836 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is interesting, yet impossible. 8-). > > > > Are you perchance running an RZ1000 based IDE controller? > > > > Err, I have absolutely no idea. :-) The controller (IDE) was a very inexpensive > one that I picked up from a local computer store when I was having problems > with my old one. I checked the documentation, and it didn't mention anything > like 'RZ1000' anywhere, so I suppose not. It's a basic ISA IDE controller > ("Acculogic sIDE-3", if that helps any). Check the chip. If you take an interrupt during a data transfer on an RZ1000, it will silently corrupt your data. About 1/3 of all IDE controllers use RZ1000's. You guys should get out morei: comp.sys.intel. 8-) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 14:41:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA18016 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:41:33 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA18011 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:41:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA19153; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:41:11 -0700 To: Andreas Klemm cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -stable: kernel compile problems since a few days.. undefined symbols. Why ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Oct 1995 18:40:33 BST." <199510061740.SAA14105@knobel.gun.de> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 14:41:11 -0700 Message-ID: <19150.813015671@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Heeelllppp !!! ;-)) > > Someone here who knows more about this ??? I saw this too. Your build environment is out of sync with your kernel sources, somehow. If you look at the definition for `isonum_711', for example, you'll see that it's inlined and should *never even appear* as an external ref in cd9660_lookup.o, among others! I "fixed" it by blowing away my source and binary tree (I saw this in my chroot area during release builds) and rebuilding it all from scratch. The problem went away. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 14:44:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA18416 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:44:58 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA18402 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:44:52 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02260; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:42:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510062142.OAA02260@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:42:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Oct 5, 95 11:14:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1488 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > 2) Make a TCP connection to a priveledged port on that host. > > Retry at intervals if necessary. > > > > 3) It writes you on the connection you made when it wants to notify > > you of some event. > > I don't find 'privileged ports' in my trusty O'Reillly TCP/IP book, could > you give me a reference? I just don't see, right now, what would stop > someone with a packet sniffer, finding how I communicate, then spoofing > the remote. I know how to set up connections, I'm wondering about > security, and how much is enough, when I'm talking about something that > can shut down the machine. man rresvport A port in the range 1-1023 can only be allocated by root. That is, those ports can only be answered by a Trojan Horse if your monitoring system has been fully compromised. The spoofing is prevented because the systems that can be spoofed make the connection to the monitoring system. That means someone can not pretend to be the monitoring system and sending a failure warning and cause a shutdown because connections are not made in that direction. The worst that someone can do is register with the monitoring system and get powerfail notifications, and then only if you don't put restrictions on who is allowed to connect to the monitoring system in the first place (ie: it should be inside your firewall in any case). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 14:54:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA19281 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:54:02 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19270 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:53:54 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA10230; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:52:34 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA05454; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:52:33 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA14305; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:45:51 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510062145.WAA14305@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: -stable: kernel compile problems since a few days.. undefined symbols. Why ? To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:45:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510061740.SAA14105@knobel.gun.de> from "Andreas Klemm" at Oct 6, 95 06:40:33 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 588 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Andreas Klemm wrote: > > Heeelllppp !!! ;-)) > When linking kernel: > > cd9660_lookup.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment > cd9660_lookup.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment > cd9660_lookup.o: Undefined symbol `_isonum_711' referenced from text segment Looks like some of your .o files are corrupted (the _isonum stuff should be in cd9660_util.o, f.e.). Disk full? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 14:59:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA19682 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:59:56 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19675 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:59:49 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06282; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id RAA13424; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:59:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Ed Tootill cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Ed Tootill Subject: Re: rarpd & BPF In-Reply-To: <199510061857.OAA27000@telebase.com.> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Ed Tootill wrote: > > I need to get rarpd running on two bsd pc's. The man page > for rarpd says I need BPF, Berkeley Packet Filter, configured > into the kernel. I didn't find any references to BPF in the > kernel file. > > Anybody know how to obtain BPF. Is it S/W I need to download > or buy, is it just an addition to the kernel? > > Any assistance will be appreciated. > > A litle more info in case this sounds familiar. > > Since we changed IP addresses on the other side of the sun router I cannot > do lookups, 'r' command, cannot get to the name server from the BSD side > of the network. I left one BSD machine unchanged from when it last worked > correctly and the other has been reloaded. I painstakingly troubleshot > this problem. I've tried defaultrouters, static routes. . . . > > I can ping the bsd machines from the other side of the router. I can do all > 'r' commands if I use IP numbers instead of names. > Take a look at /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/LINT. Search for 'bpf' (lower case) and you'll see what you need to add to your kernel config file before rebuilding your kernel. > Ed Tootill, Telebase Systems > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 15:03:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA19932 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:03:27 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA19916 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:03:20 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02307; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:01:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510062201.PAA02307@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... To: mbarkah@hemi.com (Ade Barkah) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:01:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510060622.AAA02872@hemi.com> from "Ade Barkah" at Oct 6, 95 00:22:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3929 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I don't find 'privileged ports' in my trusty O'Reillly TCP/IP book, could > > you give me a reference? > > It refers to port numbers below 1024. In Unix systems, only the > super-user can bind a socket to listen to ports < 1024. It is > an "extra" bit of security, but easily defeated if someone has > root priviledges or run a non-Unix operating system on the wire. > > > I just don't see, right now, what would stop someone with a packet > > sniffer, finding how I communicate, then spoofing the remote. > > Authentication is always a problem when dealing with client-server > programs. You need to devise a way for the programs to authenticate > themselves, perhaps by using encryption methods. Popular protocols > use "challenge passwords" to verify that each end is properly > authorized. > > A simple scheme is to have a specific "shutdown password" that is > only sent when a shutdown is necessary, and changes each time > the system is shut down. This scheme defeats packet sniffing > since 1) the password is not normally sent for simple status > checks and 2) when it is sent, it is immediately changed. If we have a monitoring system 'A' and a system that wants to be notified 'B', then: 1) Run a daemon on A that binds a priveldged port. A user written daemon can not bind this port unless system 'A' has had root compromised, in which case you have more problems than graceful shutdowns to worry about. 2) Instead of having 'A' send broadcasts to 'B' (and other boxes that want notification), 'B' connects to the daemon on 'A'. 3) 'A' uses a select to check for exceptional conditions to discard old connections to prevent denial of service attacks. A denial of service attack based on rotorring through a large number of addresses should not be permitted by the firewall. If it is, then your router is vunerable, and you are screwed anyway. 4) When 'A' gets notification of UPS failure, it tells the daemon to send a message to all clients connected to it. Failure modes: 1) Problem: Someone pretends to be 'A' and accepts connections supposed to be bound for 'A'. Soloution: Fire your firewall maintainer; this should not be possible. 2) Problem: Someone connects to 'A' to get failure notification. Solution: You send it. Who cares if they shut down their machine when your UPS warns machine 'A'. 3) Problem: Someone uses the notifications to determine the state of alarm systems at your site to pick an opportune time to break in. Soloution: Don't let machines outside the firewall request notification of power failure. Block the port. Soloution': Verify host addresses in incoming connections via getpeername() and close connections not from machines in a list of allowed machines. No one can "tell 'B' to shutdown"; 'B' can only ask 'A' to tell it, and 'A' is your machine. The only failure modes are someone pretending to be 'A' for an existing connection from 'B' and sending to 'B' or someone completely compromising 'A' (in which case they might as well completely compromise 'B' if they are maintained to similar security standards and the intent is to shutdown 'B'). If you have packet spoofing going on, you need to adjust your sequence determination algorithm to make it unguessable. This will prevent someone from sending a "shutdown" message to a machine that is registered with 'A' via a method that makes it look like 'A' sent it. Spoofing is something you have to fix for the general case anyway. You should also have a firewall so if it happens, it will be someone you can personally kick in the groin instead of someone across the Atlantic from you. > Of course, if someone is packet sniffing your internal organization's > wire, you have bigger problems. Amen. Fire the bugger. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 15:06:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA20188 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:06:14 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA20174 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:06:01 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02318; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:03:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510062203.PAA02318@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: 52gig RAID, causes panic To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:03:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510061207.IAA02937@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Oct 6, 95 08:07:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 526 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > BTW are multiple LUNs working well? Our RAID systems make heavy use of 'm. > > I just used multiple LUNS while testing a scanner and it worked OK. > > There were reports of failures with multiple LUNS with a CD changer, > though it may not be LUN related. What is the interaction between LUN switching, Tagged Queuing, and SCSI disconnect? I'd think it would be. uh, unpleasent. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 15:15:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA20895 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:15:12 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA20888 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:15:08 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA21649; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:14:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199510062214.PAA21649@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault), wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 52gig RAID, causes panic In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Oct 1995 15:03:29 PDT." <199510062203.PAA02318@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 15:14:20 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >What is the interaction between LUN switching, Tagged Queuing, and SCSI >disconnect? > >I'd think it would be. uh, unpleasent. Why? LUN switching is exactly the same as switching targets. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 15:17:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA21050 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:17:15 -0700 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA21027 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:17:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA02750 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:16:49 -0600 Message-Id: <199510062216.QAA02750@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Steve Passe To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Preformatted man pages and 2.1.0-950928-SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Oct 1995 22:30:42 BST." <199510062130.WAA13971@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 16:16:49 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, >> With 950922 I saw the same problem, but slighly different specifics: >> my problem was that /usr/bin/man was a SUID program, owned by user >> man while all the xxx/catn directories were owned by user bin. > > >The cat directories belong to user "man". It's one of the stranger >things that all our cat dirs magically disappear (or are being >transfered to somebody else) in all our recent releases. on my 950922-SNAP almost all belong to bin. so i assume the proper fix is to leave /usr/bin/man owned by user man, and change the ownership of all the /usr/share/man/*, /usr/local/man/*, etc, files to man... -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 15:48:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA22604 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:48:03 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA22586 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:47:53 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02482; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:44:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510062244.PAA02482@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: 52gig RAID, causes panic To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:44:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dufault@hda.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510062214.PAA21649@aslan.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Oct 6, 95 03:14:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 610 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >What is the interaction between LUN switching, Tagged Queuing, and SCSI > >disconnect? > > > >I'd think it would be. uh, unpleasent. > > Why? LUN switching is exactly the same as switching targets. Assuming that completion can be sent. I think the way Lun switching works with a changer, you don't want outstanding I/O's when the Lun is switched. 8-). Might be the same for a RAID, depending on the actual electronics (one would hope that it wasn't, though...). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 15:48:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA22663 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:48:23 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA22651 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:48:19 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA21783; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:47:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199510062247.PAA21783@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs), dufault@hda.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 52gig RAID, causes panic In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Oct 1995 15:44:49 PDT." <199510062244.PAA02482@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 15:47:26 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> >What is the interaction between LUN switching, Tagged Queuing, and SCSI >> >disconnect? >> > >> >I'd think it would be. uh, unpleasent. >> >> Why? LUN switching is exactly the same as switching targets. > >Assuming that completion can be sent. > >I think the way Lun switching works with a changer, you don't want >outstanding I/O's when the Lun is switched. 8-). Nope. Either the changer will queue the I/O for the other lun, or it will return BUSY status. >Might be the same for a RAID, depending on the actual electronics >(one would hope that it wasn't, though...). I highly doubt it. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 18:46:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA02665 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:46:28 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA02658 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 18:46:25 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <07877-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:46:12 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id LAA25583 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:51:10 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id BAA14404 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:48:56 GMT Message-Id: <199510070148.BAA14404@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Linux now has a NetWare server clone...(fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 11:48:55 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk There's first public release of LinuxWare 0.92beta. LinuxWare is Novell Netware like server for Linux which supports login/logout, message sending and R/W file services. The package includes IPX utilities, IPX router daemons and kernel patch too. The source code is available at my local site (see lsm) and was uploaded to sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/Incoming. Here's the lsm entry: - - -- Begin3 Title: LinuxWare Version: 0.92beta Entered-date: Oct 5, 1995 Description: Novell NetWare like fileserver for Linux IPX utilities and router daemons included Keywords: fileserver IPX NCP Novell NetWare Linux Author: Ales Dryak Maintained-by: Ales Dryak Primary-site: sunsite.unc.edu /pub/Linux/system/Network 79 k lwared-0.92.tar.gz Primary-site: klokan.sh.cvut.cz /pub/linux 79 k lwared-0.92.tar.gz Platform: Linux Copying-policy: GPL End Ales Dryak *********************************************************************** e-mail: A.Dryak@sh.cvut.cz xdryak@sun.felk.cvut.cz - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i iQCVAwUBMHQcKIQRll5MupLRAQE4owP/THx6/zsu4ibyRH45MaXFASOSjpvlsM1d EeSu7HMosFgY6bC9gSCCYtH3qyoOKwqj6xMPA4t8CWrTQWAGuB7RB7zfeJjhKsPa MiuPV9gm5Koumgt6uqqaReYCSu1L/4UERIQaXS8EjCCDBucKgA1+Uj0qqpj3dQQX 6M978TJG33w= =b+aW - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - -- This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP. Finger wirzeniu@kruuna.helsinki.fi for PGP key needed for validating signature. Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov PLEASE remember a short description of the software and the LOCATION. - -- Volker +=================================================================+ ! Volker Lendecke Internet: lendecke@namu01.gwdg.de ! ! D-37081 Goettingen, Germany ! +=================================================================+ I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 19:08:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA03435 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:08:55 -0700 Received: from ccslinux.dlsu.edu.ph (root@linux1.dlsu.edu.ph [165.220.8.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA03379 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:08:14 -0700 Received: by ccslinux.dlsu.edu.ph (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #13) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk id m0t1OXJ-000A7OC; Sat, 7 Oct 95 09:58 GMT+0800 Sender: humprey@linux1.dlsu.edu.ph (Humprey Sy) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 09:58:49 +48000 From: "Humprey C. Sy" Sender: "Humprey C. Sy" Reply-To: "Humprey C. Sy" Subject: Accessing another process's virtual address space To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Does FreeBSD allow a process to read or access the virtual address space of another process? Or if the kernel provides a service that does that? Or does FreeBSD provide a protection mechanism for this? - Humprey - From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 19:14:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA03757 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:14:27 -0700 Received: from pyromania.apana.org.au (pyromania.apana.org.au [202.12.87.123]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA03750 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:14:14 -0700 Received: (from john@localhost) by pyromania.apana.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA05108 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:13:59 +1000 From: John Herks Message-Id: <199510070213.MAA05108@pyromania.apana.org.au> Subject: help To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:13:58 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 11 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk help list From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 19:30:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA04311 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:30:05 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA04283 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:29:47 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA02525; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:26:17 +1000 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:26:17 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510070226.MAA02525@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, smp@csn.net Subject: Re: Preformatted man pages and 2.1.0-950928-SNAP Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>The cat directories belong to user "man". It's one of the stranger >>things that all our cat dirs magically disappear (or are being >>transfered to somebody else) in all our recent releases. >on my 950922-SNAP almost all belong to bin. so i assume the proper >fix is to leave /usr/bin/man owned by user man, and change the >ownership of all the /usr/share/man/*, /usr/local/man/*, etc, files >to man... Run `mtree -d -f /etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist' and `mtree -d -f /etc/mtree/BSD.local.dist' to check the ownerships and permissions. Run `mtree -d -u -f /etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist' and `mtree -d -f /etc/mtree/BSD.local.dist' to fix them. There was apparently a bug in the SNAP for the build process to not do this automatically or for the installation to lose the ownerships. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 19:31:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA04416 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:31:21 -0700 Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA04409 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:31:17 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA19446; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:31:03 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA27362; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:28:25 -0700 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:28:25 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199510070228.TAA27362@geli.clusternet> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Fiskars UPS support... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk |> I don't find 'privileged ports' in my trusty O'Reillly TCP/IP book, could |> you give me a reference? I just don't see, right now, what would stop |> someone with a packet sniffer, finding how I communicate, then spoofing |> the remote. I know how to set up connections, I'm wondering about |> security, and how much is enough, when I'm talking about something that |> can shut down the machine. | |man rresvport | |A port in the range 1-1023 can only be allocated by root. That is, |those ports can only be answered by a Trojan Horse if your monitoring |system has been fully compromised. | |The spoofing is prevented because the systems that can be spoofed make |the connection to the monitoring system. That means someone can not |pretend to be the monitoring system and sending a failure warning and |cause a shutdown because connections are not made in that direction. | |The worst that someone can do is register with the monitoring system |and get powerfail notifications, and then only if you don't put |restrictions on who is allowed to connect to the monitoring system |in the first place (ie: it should be inside your firewall in any case). | | | Terry Lambert | terry@lambert.org You might also have a look at Stevens' `Unix Network Programming' Chapter 6, section 8. "Reserved Ports". Besides the SMM, this book and the TCP/IP Illustrated books should be required for FreeBSD hackers, dontchathink? Maybe WC could go into the bookseller business, or fix up promotional deals with Computer Literacy. Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 19:57:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA04974 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:57:28 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA04967 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:57:23 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA04359; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:53:41 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510070323.MAA04359@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: 52gig RAID, causes panic To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:53:41 +0930 (CST) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510061207.IAA02937@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Oct 6, 95 08:07:51 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1002 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Peter Dufault stands accused of saying: > I just used multiple LUNS while testing a scanner and it worked OK. > > There were reports of failures with multiple LUNS with a CD changer, > though it may not be LUN related. If this was the 6-disk Pioneer unit, I suspect that it is indeed the changer. The Pioneer's are a four-letter word in the local Novell community, apparently because they lock up the SCSI bus if you confuse them. (Note that the Sony CDU55S will wedge the SCSI bus if you try to talk to it when the tray won't close properly... > Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 20:51:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA08053 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 20:51:51 -0700 Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08048 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 20:51:47 -0700 Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA01376; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 20:50:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 20:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: -Vince- To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: J Wunsch , FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: can't delete chfn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, -Vince- wrote: > > I just did alias dir ls -lo and here's the output: > > > > root@apollo [3:58pm][/usr/bin] >> dir chfn > > -r-sr-xr-x 1 root bin schg 20480 Jul 26 07:57 chfn > ^^^^ > schg prevents you from replacing the file. > the same should be true of your kernel. do a 'chflags noschg /usr/bin/chfn' Hmm, but it seems like it was make world that did this so make world is preventing new make worlds from happening? > from man chflags: > Flags are a comma separated list of keywords. The following keywords are > currently defined: > > arch set the archived flag (super-user only) > dump set the dump flag > sappnd set the system append-only flag (super-user only) > schg set the system immutable flag (super-user only) > uappnd set the user append-only flag (owner or super-user only) > uchg set the user immutable flag (owner or super-user only) > archived, sappend, schange, simmutable, uappend, uchange, uimmutable > aliases for the above > > > > > root@apollo [3:58pm][/usr/bin] >> > > > > Any ideas what I can do to delete chfn so I can install the > > updated one? Thanks! Cheers, -Vince- vince@apollo.COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center - Board of Advisors Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! Linda Wong/Vivian Chow/Hacken Lee/Danny Chan Fan Club Mailiing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 6 22:12:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA11160 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:12:42 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA11153 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:12:38 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA06854 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:15:23 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199510070515.BAA06854@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: 52gb RAID, works, sorta. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:15:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 778 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I was able to get FreeBSD not to panic, by going into DOS and fdisking the RAID array. After that I was able to boot FreeBSD and lay down a disklabel and new parition table. I created a single 52GB partition on the array, newfs took 6 hours to complete, When it was done it appeared to work, however DF reports some strange numbers, I've added some more debug: /dev/sd0s1c 51677350 106 4593383 0% /mnt f_blocks: 51677350 f_bfree: 51677244 f_bavail: 4593383 f_bsize: 1024 What is with the huge discrepence between bfree and bavail? If im reading this right my 52gb partition gives me 4gb of data space?! -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 00:32:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA14107 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 00:32:00 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA14075 ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 00:31:55 -0700 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA13622; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 08:29:52 +0100 Message-Id: <199510070729.IAA13622@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Atapi.flp broken! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 08:29:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <8093.812944932@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 5, 95 07:02:12 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1027 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I downloaded atapi.flp from the latest snapshot and it doesn't even > > boot! It gets to "uncompressing kernel...done" and then spontaneously > > reboots (or hangs the system, depending on which computer I use). Is > > anyone else having this problem? Perhaps your kernel was too big to fit > > on the floppy and got truncated? I booted atapi.flp yesterday (the newer version of Oct 6th) and had no problems booting it. I don't have an IDE/ATAPI drive though in that system. Just used atapi.flp since it starts with letter 'a' and thus arrived earlier than boot.flp :-) (daytime ftp rates ti the US are horrible here in Germany at the moment) > > I'm investigating this - sorry for the gross failure to function! > > I'm not sure what's going on - there's not THAT much different between > the two floppies, and I hardly expected the ATAPI driver to cause > instant reboots. Thanks for the quick feedback, in any case! :( > > Jordan > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 02:04:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA21339 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 02:04:17 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA21328 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 02:04:10 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id KAA21340; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 10:03:46 +0100 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA00259; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 08:29:17 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199510070729.IAA00259@knobel.gun.de> Subject: Re: -stable: kernel compile problems since a few days.. undefined symbols. Why ? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 08:29:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19150.813015671@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 6, 95 02:41:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1135 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Heeelllppp !!! ;-)) > > > > Someone here who knows more about this ??? > > I saw this too. Your build environment is out of sync with your > kernel sources, somehow. If you look at the definition for > `isonum_711', for example, you'll see that it's inlined and should > *never even appear* as an external ref in cd9660_lookup.o, among > others! > > I "fixed" it by blowing away my source and binary tree (I saw this > in my chroot area during release builds) and rebuilding it all > from scratch. The problem went away. Well, a make clean in /usr/src-land cured the problem. I think I really had some out of date kernel libs lying around. What about cleaning these libs when doing a make clean in the /sys/compile/GENERIC directory ??? Several make cleans didn't help I had to make a make clean in /usr/src/sys.... Perhaps a good suggestion for 2.1 ? Thanks for your help ! Andreas /// -- $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 02:44:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA22695 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 02:44:18 -0700 Received: from alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de (alf20.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.20.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA22688 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 02:44:11 -0700 Received: from deceased.hb.north.de by alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.940318) id AA27338; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 10:43:58 +0200 Received: from jelal.hb.north.de by deceased.hb.north.de with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1) id m0t1VnW-000ZJTC; Sat, 7 Oct 95 10:44 MET Received: by jelal.hb.north.de (SMail-ST 0.95gcc/2.5+) id AA00363; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 23:55:36 +0100 (CET) Received: (from nox@localhost) by saturn (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA07248 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 23:23:10 +0100 From: Juergen Lock Message-Id: <199510062223.XAA07248@saturn> Subject: vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! (was: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP kernel experiences) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 23:23:09 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199510031839.TAA03102@saturn> from "nox" at Oct 3, 95 07:39:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 8160 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Somehow i thought this was gone but... especially tape writes seem to trigger it. a backup with a DIAGNOSTIC kernel (still 2.1.0-950928-SNAP) and the panic() line in vm/vm_page.h patched into a printf, leaves my (x)console looking like this: vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! ... And (i guess nothing to do with this) once in a while i see messages like `in getcc reselect by t1', apparently form the ncr code. is that just a harmless race or something to worry about? Hardware details (boot -v log) follow... Oct 6 19:45:59 saturn su: nox to root on /dev/ttyp3 Oct 6 20:12:12 saturn /kernel: -driven port (oops looks like some buffer was too small?) Oct 6 20:12:12 saturn /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface Oct 6 20:12:12 saturn /kernel: lpt1 not found at 0xffffffff Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: lpt2 not found at 0xffffffff Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: pca0 on motherboard Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: pca0: PC speaker audio driver Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: fdc0: NEC 72065B Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: wdc1 not found at 0x170 Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: uha0 not found at 0x330 Oct 6 20:12:13 saturn /kernel: ahc1 not found Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: ahb0 not found Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: aha0 not found at 0x330 Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: aic0 not found at 0x340 Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: wt0 not found at 0x280 Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: ep0 not found at 0x300 Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: npx0 on motherboard Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: sb0 not found at 0x220 Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: sbxvi0 not found Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: sbmidi0 not found at 0x330 Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: pas0 not found at 0x388 Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: gus0 not found at 0x220 Oct 6 20:12:14 saturn /kernel: gusxvi0 not found at 0x530 Oct 6 20:12:15 saturn /kernel: gusmax0 not found at 0x32c Oct 6 20:12:15 saturn /kernel: mss0 not found at 0x530 Oct 6 20:12:15 saturn /kernel: opl0 not found at 0x388 Oct 6 20:12:15 saturn /kernel: mpu0 at 0x330 irq 6 drq 0 on isa Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: mpu0 not probed due to irq conflict with fdc0 at 6 Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: uart0 at 0x330 irq 5 on isa Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: uart0 not probed due to irq conflict with sio2 at 5 Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: bio_imask c0000040 tty_imask c00300ba net_imask c00300ba Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: Probing for devices on the PCI bus: Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: configuration mode 2 allows 16 devices. Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: chip0 rev 4 on pci0:0 Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: CPU: 486DX, bus=33MHz, CPU->Memory posting ON Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: Warning: NO DRAM parity! Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: Cache: 256KB writethrough, cache clocks=2-1-1-1 Oct 6 20:12:16 saturn /kernel: DRAM: page mode code fetch, read and write, memory clocks=X-2-2-2 Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: CPU->PCI: posting ON, burst mode ON Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: PCI->Memory: posting ON Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: ncr0 rev 1 int a irq 9 on pci0:1 Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: mapreg[10] type=1 addr=0000e800 size=0100. Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: mapreg[14] type=0 addr=fbfef000 size=0100. Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: reg20: virtual=0xf4de8000 physical=0xfbfef000 size=0x100 Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: ncr0: restart (scsi reset). Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: ncr0 scanning for targets 0..6 (V2 pl22 95/07/07) Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: (ncr0:0:0): 200ns (5 Mb/sec) offset 8. Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: (ncr0:0:0): "IBM DPES-31080 S31K" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 Oct 6 20:12:17 saturn /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: 1034MB (2118144 512 byte sectors) Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): with 4903 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 108 sectors/track Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: (ncr0:1:0): "CONNER CFP2105S 2.14GB 2B4B" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: sd1(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: 2048MB (4194304 512 byte sectors) Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: sd1(ncr0:1:0): with 3940 cyls, 10 heads, and an average 106 sectors/track Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: (ncr0:4:0): "SANYO CRD-254S 1.02" type 5 removable SCSI 2 Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: cd0(ncr0:4:0): CD-ROM Oct 6 20:12:18 saturn /kernel: cd0(ncr0:4:0): asynchronous. Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: cd present.[189955 x 2048 byte records] Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: (ncr0:5:0): "WANGTEK 5525ES SCSI REV7 3Y1" type 1 removable SCSI 1 Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: st0(ncr0:5:0): Sequential-Access st0: Wangtek 5525ES is a known rogue Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: density code 0x0, drive empty Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: chip1 rev 3 on pci0:2 Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: Bus Modes: Bus Park, Bus Lock, Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: Coprocessor errors enabled Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: Keyboard controller: 60h,62h,64h,66h Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: RTC: 70h-77h Oct 6 20:12:19 saturn /kernel: vga0 rev 0 int a irq ?? on pci0:6 Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: mapreg[10] type=0 addr=fb000000 size=800000. Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: pci0: uses 8388864 bytes of memory from fb000000 upto fbfef0ff. Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: pci0: uses 256 bytes of I/O space from e800 upto e8ff. Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: changing root device to sd0a Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: BIOS Geometries: Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: 0:00000000 0 cyl, 0 heads, 0 sects Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: 1:00000000 0 cyl, 0 heads, 0 sects Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: 2:00000000 0 cyl, 0 heads, 0 sects Oct 6 20:12:20 saturn /kernel: 3:00000000 0 cyl, 0 heads, 0 sects Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: 4:00000000 0 cyl, 0 heads, 0 sects Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: 5:00000000 0 cyl, 0 heads, 0 sects Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: 6:00000000 0 cyl, 0 heads, 0 sects Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: 7:00000000 0 cyl, 0 heads, 0 sects Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: 0 accounted for Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: sd0s1: type 0x5, start 261954, end = 523907, size 261954 : OK Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: sd0s3: type 0xa5, start 523908, end = 2118143, size 1594236 : OK Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: sd0s4: type 0x6, start 63, end = 261953, size 261891 : OK Oct 6 20:12:21 saturn /kernel: sd0: rejecting partition in BSD label: it isn't entirely within the slice Oct 6 20:12:22 saturn /kernel: sd0: start 523908, end 2118143, size 1594236 Oct 6 20:12:22 saturn /kernel: sd0d: start 0, end 2118143, size 2118144 Oct 6 20:12:22 saturn /kernel: sd0: rejecting partition in BSD label: it isn't entirely within the slice Oct 6 20:12:22 saturn /kernel: sd0e: start 261954, end 523907, size 261954 Oct 6 20:12:22 saturn /kernel: sd0: rejecting partition in BSD label: it isn't entirely within the slice Oct 6 20:12:22 saturn /kernel: sd0h: start 63, end 261953, size 261891 ... or should i just stop trying DIAGNOSTIC...? :) Juergen From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 03:01:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA23322 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 03:01:50 -0700 Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA23313 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 03:01:46 -0700 Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA02047; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 03:00:43 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 03:00:42 -0700 (PDT) From: -Vince- To: Brian Tao cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: can't delete chfn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Brian Tao wrote: > On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > > > No idea why the chflags (above in your script, not quoted here) > > failed. > > Perhaps his kern.securelevel was >=1, which I think absolutely > forbids you from unsetting the schg and sappnd flags. Hmmm, how do I set the kern.securelevel? Cheers, -Vince- vince@apollo.COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center - Board of Advisors Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! Linda Wong/Vivian Chow/Hacken Lee/Danny Chan Fan Club Mailiing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 04:46:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA28102 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:46:06 -0700 Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA28097 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:46:04 -0700 Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.6.12/8.6.9) id EAA05431; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:45:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: -Vince- To: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I am experiencing the following problem and the machine just reboots under FreeBSD-current, anyone have any ideas? MAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 giving up Automatic reboot in 15 seconds\^?\^A a key on the console to abort Rebooting... Also, can someone tell me what the maxusers option in the kernel config file does exactly? Thanks! Cheers, -Vince- vince@apollo.COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center - Board of Advisors Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! Linda Wong/Vivian Chow/Hacken Lee/Danny Chan Fan Club Mailiing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 06:09:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA01355 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 06:09:03 -0700 Received: from fgate.flevel.co.uk (fgate.flevel.co.uk [194.6.101.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA01322 ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 06:08:57 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by fgate.flevel.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA00158; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:10:47 +0100 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:10:46 +0100 (BST) From: Root To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: info@freebsd.org Subject: Mail list? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Could anyone please point me to a mail list (For FreeBSD). Thanks. Trefor S. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 09:05:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA06099 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 09:05:40 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA06092 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 09:05:27 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA10711 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:04:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199510071604.AA10711@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:04:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: Juergen Lock "vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! (was: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP kernel experiences)" (Oct 6, 23:23) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Juergen Lock Subject: Re: vm_page_unhold: hold count < 0!!! (was: 2.1.0-950928-SNAP kernel experiences) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 6, 23:23, Juergen Lock wrote: } And (i guess nothing to do with this) once in a while i see } messages like `in getcc reselect by t1', apparently form the } ncr code. is that just a harmless race or something to worry about? } Hardware details (boot -v log) follow... The "in getcc reselected by" is harmless and just means that the driver is determined to finish the INQUIRY command for that device, but there was an attempt to reselect for progress in some other command ... Thought this message had been made conditional on some debug option long ago ... Gruss, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 11:29:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA13290 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:29:22 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA13285 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:29:19 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA24545 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:36:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:36:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199510071836.OAA24545@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: VLB Disk Controllers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would be welcome. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 11:40:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA14085 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:40:57 -0700 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14078 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:40:54 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20686; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id OAA04430; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:40:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: dennis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-Reply-To: <199510071836.OAA24545@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 7 Oct 1995, dennis wrote: > > Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would > be welcome. I have the Adaptec 2842, it's always worked fine with FreeBSD. > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 11:41:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA14173 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:41:40 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14168 ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:41:35 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA12019; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:41:21 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA15540; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:41:20 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA04912; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:30:43 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510071830.TAA04912@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Mail list? To: root@fgate.flevel.co.uk (Root) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:30:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, info@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Root" at Oct 7, 95 02:10:46 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 280 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Root wrote: > > > Could anyone please point me to a mail list (For FreeBSD). ask majordomo@freebsd.org for help -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 11:49:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA14524 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:49:39 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14519 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:49:37 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25782; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:49:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199510071849.LAA25782@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Oct 1995 14:36:26 EDT." <199510071836.OAA24545@etinc.com> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 11:49:08 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would >be welcome. > >Dennis The 2842 seems to work well, supports tagged queuing and other advanced SCSI II features that the buslogic (may be a driver limitation) does not. The adaptec has much lower command overhead than the buslogic >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > >Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For >Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame >Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 11:53:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA14721 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:53:34 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14715 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:53:29 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA24619 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:00:39 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:00:39 -0400 Message-Id: <199510071900.PAA24619@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Justin Gibbs says, >>Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would >>be welcome. >> >>Dennis > >The 2842 seems to work well, supports tagged queuing and other advanced >SCSI II features that the buslogic (may be a driver limitation) does not. >The adaptec has much lower command overhead than the buslogic > I'd love to hear from someone (maybe you?) who is using one of these in a busy system and has used it for an extended period. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 12:30:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA16462 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:30:04 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA16451 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:29:47 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA11276 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 7 Oct 1995 20:29:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199510071929.AA11276@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 20:29:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: -Vince- "machine reboot & kernel maxusers option" (Oct 7, 4:45) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: -Vince- Subject: Re: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 7, 4:45, -Vince- wrote: } Subject: machine reboot & kernel maxusers option } Hi everyone, } } I am experiencing the following problem and the machine just } reboots under FreeBSD-current, anyone have any ideas? There have been no functional changes to the driver for nearly a month now ... Did you rebuild your kernel within that time ? } MAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. } assertion "cp" failed: file "../../pci/ncr.c", line 5560 } sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 28) @f0b4aa00. Hmm, the 28 in the message above means "Queue Full", i.e. there were too many commands issued by the generic SCSI driver. But the maximum number of commands to issue is a parameter known to the generic SCSI code, so this should never happen ... In fact, there was a change one month ago, which did change the size of the command queue. But in fact, the queue size was increased ... You may want to try changing back the line (ncr.c:132): #define MAX_START (MAX_TARGET + 7 * SCSI_NCR_MAX_TAGS) into its previous form: #define MAX_START (7 * SCSI_NCR_MAX_TAGS) I'll look into this, but I need more information: 1) Complete verbose boot message log, if possible (I.e. Boot with "-v" option, send "/sbin/dmesg" output). 2) When does this happen ? At boot time, or when the system had been heavily loaded ? Which devices are connected ? active ? There is a timeout function in the driver, which should reset the NCR chip after some 10 seconds of no progress on any outstanding command. This ought to clear the error condition ... } Also, can someone tell me what the maxusers option in the kernel } config file does exactly? Thanks! Look for uses of MAXUSERS in "/sys/conf/param.c". Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 13:06:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA18029 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:06:06 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA18014 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:06:03 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA11885 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:05:54 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510072005.NAA11885@ref.tfs.com> Subject: TCP/IP Spoofing etc. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:05:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 730 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have to explain to someone the possible problems that might be encountered by using old software on a machine in the internet. One thing that came to mind is that it's possible this role might include some 'firewall' type duties. can someone explain to me the problem that was hinted at recently, to do with malicious fragmentation of packets, so as to get them through a firewall, and have them re-assemle on the other side.. I seem to remember it had something to do with getting a session to open from the outside or something.. julian (p.s. I need this info pretty quickl (as per normal)) (I.P.Spoofing is another thing I'm sorta curious about.. I guess there may be CERT notes on these right?) (got a cert URL?) j From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 13:20:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19233 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:20:15 -0700 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19211 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:20:09 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21630 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id QAA05626; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:20:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: FIFO stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was trying to help someone port an application to FreeBSD, something called masterplan, when I hit a problem that seems to be part of the OS. I'm not sure if this is an accepted limitation, or what, so I thought I'd get some opinions. Masterplan replaces your .plan file with a fifo, and responds to reads of the fifo using a nice set of rules. This allows folks, using some OSes, to have neat finger returns. The doc with masterplan warned it wouldn't work yet with AIX, but no mention of FreeBSD. I got it to compile easily by replacing a call to mknod to a mkfifo call, and catting the .plan file worked fine, but finger refused to believe there was a .plan file there. I looked at the finger source, and the .plan file is checked to see if it's there, and if it's non-zero length. OK, I got it to check if it was a fifo, and if it was, not do the non-zero length check, but reading the fifo seems to be a problem. Finger wants to do a character by character read, and check if any of the returns are EOF. Since it may do a read before masterplan has genned a new response file, it gets this EOF before the masterplan program has had time to respond. Under SVR4, I think this'd be done by a polling kind of read, by streams, but I don't guess that's an option under FreeBSD. How else might finger be modified to work with this? BTW, I checked at the university's SUN4s running SunOS, and it works fine there. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 13:24:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19669 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:24:24 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19662 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:24:20 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA20211 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:30:28 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199510072030.QAA20211@ns1.win.net> Subject: re: VLB Disk Controllers To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:30:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 563 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would > be welcome. > I have had problems with vlb cards running above 33 MHZ. The effect appears like the loss of interrupts or extreme interrupt latency. I have seen this especially bad on amd 486dx2/80 (vlb clk 40mhz) and 486dx2/100 (vlb clk 50mhz). I suspect the problem would exist on 486dx50 as well. The effect seems to be very pronounced on vlb disk controller cards with other i/o on board. Regards, Mark Hittinger Internet Manager WinNET Communications, Inc. bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 13:47:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA21995 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:47:33 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21982 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:47:29 -0700 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA24822; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:54:41 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:54:41 -0400 Message-Id: <199510072054.QAA24822@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Mark Hittinger From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would >> be welcome. >> > >I have had problems with vlb cards running above 33 MHZ. The effect appears >like the loss of interrupts or extreme interrupt latency. I have seen this >especially bad on amd 486dx2/80 (vlb clk 40mhz) and 486dx2/100 (vlb clk 50mhz). >I suspect the problem would exist on 486dx50 as well. > >The effect seems to be very pronounced on vlb disk controller cards with >other i/o on board. > One big issue with VLB is that you have to know how to tune the bus. Most MBs have tuning parameters to overcome these problems. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 14:20:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA24587 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:20:48 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA24581 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:20:37 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA03150; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 07:15:43 +1000 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 07:15:43 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510072115.HAA03150@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Justin Gibbs says, >>>Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would >>>be welcome. >>> >>>Dennis >> >>The 2842 seems to work well, supports tagged queuing and other advanced >>SCSI II features that the buslogic (may be a driver limitation) does not. >>The adaptec has much lower command overhead than the buslogic That's not saying much. An IDE controller has a much lower command overhead than the buslogic: Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB TOSHIBA MK537FB (slow disk): Output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: Command overhead is 4741 usec (time_4096 = 5164, time_8192 = 5586) transfer speed is 9.6955e+06 bytes/sec Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB (QUANTUM XP34301 (fast disk): output for disklatency /dev/rsd1: Command overhead is 3968 usec (time_4096 = 4295, time_8192 = 4622) transfer speed is 1.25286e+07 bytes/sec Cheap IDE on 486DX/33 ISA SAMSUNG SHD-3212A (slow disk): output for disklatency /dev/rwd0: Command overhead is 573 usec (time_4096 = 2830, time_8192 = 5087) transfer speed is 1.81489e+06 bytes/sec A high command overhead causes slow file system operations for everything except large i/o's. What are the command overheads of other popular controllers? Bruce --- disklatency.c --- #include #include #include #include #include #define ITERATIONS 1000 static int syserror(const char *where); static long timeit(int fd, char *buf, unsigned blocksize); int main(int argc, char **argv) { char buf[2 * 4096]; int fd; long time_4096; long time_8192; if (argc != 2) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: %s device\n", argv[0]); exit(1); } fd = open(argv[1], O_RDONLY); if (fd == -1) syserror("open"); time_4096 = timeit(fd, buf, 4096); time_8192 = timeit(fd, buf, 8192); printf("Command overhead is %ld usec (time_4096 = %ld, time_8192 = %ld)\n", (time_4096 - (time_8192 - time_4096)) / ITERATIONS, time_4096 / ITERATIONS, time_8192 / ITERATIONS); printf("transfer speed is %g bytes/sec\n", 4096 * ITERATIONS * 1000000.0 / (time_8192 - time_4096)); exit(0); } static int syserror(const char *where) { perror(where); exit(1); } static long timeit(int fd, char *buf, unsigned blocksize) { struct timeval finish; int i; struct timeval start; if (read(fd, buf, blocksize) != blocksize) syserror("read"); if (gettimeofday(&start, (struct timezone *)NULL) != 0) syserror("gettimeofday(start)"); for (i = 0; i < ITERATIONS; ++i) { if (lseek(fd, (off_t)0, SEEK_SET) == -1) syserror("lseek"); if (read(fd, buf, blocksize) != blocksize) syserror("read"); } if (gettimeofday(&finish, (struct timezone *)NULL) != 0) syserror("gettimeofday(finish)"); return (finish.tv_sec - start.tv_sec) * 1000000 + finish.tv_usec - start.tv_usec; } From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 14:33:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA25191 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:33:46 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25184 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:33:44 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA26178; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:33:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199510072133.OAA26178@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Oct 1995 16:30:28 EDT." <199510072030.QAA20211@ns1.win.net> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 14:33:10 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would >> be welcome. >> > >I have had problems with vlb cards running above 33 MHZ. The effect appears >like the loss of interrupts or extreme interrupt latency. I have seen this >especially bad on amd 486dx2/80 (vlb clk 40mhz) and 486dx2/100 (vlb clk 50mhz) >. >I suspect the problem would exist on 486dx50 as well. > >The effect seems to be very pronounced on vlb disk controller cards with >other i/o on board. You have to be carefull of your motherboard and videocard in any VLB implementation and even more so if you go about 40MHz. I've seen video cards corrupt bus mastering transfers before and lots of motherboards that don't work with VLB busmasters. I've never experienced a problem on my hardware, and those who have complained to me about the 2842 not working correctly later discovered it was their video card, motherboard or a memory problem. There are also a lot of VLB "super I/O" cards out there that are pure junk. We aren't talking about IDE interfaces anyway. > >Regards, > >Mark Hittinger >Internet Manager >WinNET Communications, Inc. >bugs@win.net -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 14:41:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA25629 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:41:51 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25612 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:41:32 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA03662; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 07:39:00 +1000 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 07:39:00 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510072139.HAA03662@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org, chuckr@eng.umd.edu Subject: Re: FIFO stuff Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I looked at the finger source, and the .plan file is checked to see if >it's there, and if it's non-zero length. OK, I got it to check if it was >a fifo, and if it was, not do the non-zero length check, but reading the >fifo seems to be a problem. Finger wants to do a character by character >read, and check if any of the returns are EOF. Since it may do a read >before masterplan has genned a new response file, it gets this EOF before >the masterplan program has had time to respond. Just reading it should work. The open should block until something writes the the fifo, and read should not return 0 until the fifo is not open for writing by any process. .plan must remain a fifo throughout. I don't think this can be made to work properly if masterplan replaces .plan with a fifo on the fly. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 14:45:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA25846 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:45:19 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA25836 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:45:10 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA11757 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:43:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199510072143.AA11757@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:43:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: Bruce Evans "Re: VLB Disk Controllers" (Oct 8, 7:15) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: se@sysiphos.mi.uni-koeln.de Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 8, 7:15, Bruce Evans wrote: } That's not saying much. An IDE controller has a much lower command } overhead than the buslogic: } } Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB TOSHIBA MK537FB (slow disk): } Output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: } Command overhead is 4741 usec (time_4096 = 5164, time_8192 = 5586) } transfer speed is 9.6955e+06 bytes/sec } } Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB (QUANTUM XP34301 (fast disk): } output for disklatency /dev/rsd1: } Command overhead is 3968 usec (time_4096 = 4295, time_8192 = 4622) } transfer speed is 1.25286e+07 bytes/sec } } Cheap IDE on 486DX/33 ISA SAMSUNG SHD-3212A (slow disk): } output for disklatency /dev/rwd0: } Command overhead is 573 usec (time_4096 = 2830, time_8192 = 5087) } transfer speed is 1.81489e+06 bytes/sec } } A high command overhead causes slow file system operations for } everything except large i/o's. } } What are the command overheads of other popular controllers? NCR 53c810 (driven by a 486DX2/66): Command overhead is 751 usec (time_4096 = 1216, time_8192 = 1682) transfer speed is 8.79954e+06 bytes/sec Seems that even at 4KB, the NCR is a lot faster than an IDE controller :) Let's see: IDE: 512/1815890 s + 573 us = 855 us NCR: 512/8799540 s + 751 us = 809 us Seems the NCR is faster on 512 byte transfers. Now I guess this is not really a "large i/o" :) Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 15:01:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA26319 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:01:00 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA26312 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:00:53 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA26282; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:00:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199510072200.PAA26282@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Oct 1995 07:15:43 +1000." <199510072115.HAA03150@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 15:00:01 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>Justin Gibbs says, > >>>>Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would >>>>be welcome. >>>> >>>>Dennis >>> >>>The 2842 seems to work well, supports tagged queuing and other advanced >>>SCSI II features that the buslogic (may be a driver limitation) does not. >>>The adaptec has much lower command overhead than the buslogic > >That's not saying much. An IDE controller has a much lower command >overhead than the buslogic: It also has much higher CPU overhead, but we've been down that road before. :) Adaptec 2742 (Rev C aic7770) on 486DX2/66 VL/EISA - Quantum PD1225: Output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: Command overhead is 2002 usec (time_4096 = 2056, time_8192 = 2111) transfer speed is 7.50362e+07 bytes/sec Adaptec 2742 (Rev C aic7770) on 486DX2/66 VL/EISA - Quantum Empire 2100: Output for disklatency /dev/rsd1: Command overhead is 1299 usec (time_4096 = 2754, time_8192 = 4208) transfer speed is 2.81672e+06 bytes/sec Neither of these drives even approach the command processing speed of a Grand Prix (QUANTUM XP34301 that you tested), and I would guess that the latency would be even lower for that drive. I know the Grand Prix is fast because it found all the race conditions in our sequencer code! :) We also don't see the effects of tagged (ie overlapped) commands on the SCSI bus. Most of the overhead you see is diminished by the fact that occurs while the drive is seeking to satisfy an earlier request. >A high command overhead causes slow file system operations for >everything except large i/o's. Yup, but your whole machine is affected by a PIO device. >Bruce -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 15:28:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA27723 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:28:31 -0700 Received: from bravo.imagi.net (root@bravo.imagi.net [204.157.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27698 ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:28:21 -0700 Received: from ip123.imagi.net (ip123.imagi.net [204.157.4.123]) by bravo.imagi.net (8.6.9/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA07379; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:53:19 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:53:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199510072253.OAA07379@bravo.imagi.net> X-Sender: corellg@mail.imagi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , announce@freefall.freebsd.org From: corellg@imagi.net (Gary B.Corell) Subject: cuaa, Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan: forgive me for addressing this to you and not all at questions but you are the most likely person. in the install floppy for ftp & other functions only /dev/cuua0 & /dev/cuua1 are mentioned. I have one I/O card and one modem and the I/O card occupies the first 2 slots carrying one open serrial port and one somewhat dedicated to the mouse. the modem is on port cuaa2. Is it possible to offer more options or is it possible to tell the install you want to use something else? Thanks in advance for your help. And thanks for making a very professional product available! Gary B. Corell corellg@imagi.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 15:46:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA28764 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:46:59 -0700 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA28755 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:46:57 -0700 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA16813; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:46:15 -0500 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:46:14 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, "Gary B.Corell" Subject: Re: cuaa, In-Reply-To: <199510072253.OAA07379@bravo.imagi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 7 Oct 1995, Gary B.Corell wrote: > in the install floppy for ftp & other functions only /dev/cuua0 & /dev/cuua1 > are mentioned. I have one I/O card and one modem and the I/O card occupies > the first 2 slots carrying one open serrial port and one somewhat > dedicated to the mouse. the modem is on port cuaa2. Is it possible to offer > more options or is it possible to tell the install you want to use something > else? Jordan, I recall squaking about this LAST release. Hasn't been fixed yet? -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:10:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA29685 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:10:20 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29679 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:10:16 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA05772; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 09:07:19 +1000 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 09:07:19 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510072307.JAA05772@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>That's not saying much. An IDE controller has a much lower command >>overhead than the buslogic: >It also has much higher CPU overhead, but we've been down that road >before. :) :-). >>A high command overhead causes slow file system operations for >>everything except large i/o's. >Yup, but your whole machine is affected by a PIO device. That's mainly because IDE PIO is slow, not because it's PIO. The overhead for SCSI DMA is not insignificant. For the BT455C, which has a DMA speed of up to 40MB/sec (I doubt that my bus can keep up with this), the overhead for reading from a Grand Prix at 5MB/sec seems to be about 27%. This is hard to measure accurately. I measured it by running a hog process in the background: on an idle system it took 7.58 sec (real) and while transferring it took 10.42 sec. 7.58/10.42 = 73%. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:13:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA29894 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:13:00 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA29886 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:12:56 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA12195 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:12:37 +0100 Message-Id: <199510072312.AA12195@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:12:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: Bruce Evans "Re: VLB Disk Controllers" (Oct 8, 8:32) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 8, 8:32, Bruce Evans wrote: } Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers } >} Cheap IDE on 486DX/33 ISA SAMSUNG SHD-3212A (slow disk): } >} output for disklatency /dev/rwd0: } >} Command overhead is 573 usec (time_4096 = 2830, time_8192 = 5087) } >} transfer speed is 1.81489e+06 bytes/sec } } >NCR 53c810 (driven by a 486DX2/66): } } >Command overhead is 751 usec (time_4096 = 1216, time_8192 = 1682) } >transfer speed is 8.79954e+06 bytes/sec } } >Seems that even at 4KB, the NCR is a lot faster than an IDE controller :) } } But slower than EIDE with fast PIO modes :-). } } >Let's see: } } >IDE: 512/1815890 s + 573 us = 855 us } >NCR: 512/8799540 s + 751 us = 809 us } } >Seems the NCR is faster on 512 byte transfers. } } Nope, the 573 us is for _8_ transfers of 512 bytes because my drive } doesn't support multi-mode, and it's on a slower machine :-). I'm } surprised that it is as high as 573/8 = 72 us per command. This is all } host software (not bus related) overhead except for about 10 usec to } write the command to the controller. Don't think so. There are 16 transfers in the 8KB test, and thus the per sector overhead is in fact accounted for in the transfer rate ! The 573 is a true per 1 transfer overhead for IDE. (But is most probably caused by the kernel, not the driver.) } It sure isn't. For the Buslogic's command overhead of 4 ms and a drive } speed of 8MB/sec the transfer size has to be at least 32K just to avoid } wasting 50% of the time giving commands. Actual results for the } Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB QUANTUM XP34301: } } Block size Speed of transfer from inner tracks (av. for 10 sec) } 512 168550 } 1024 320512 } 2048 630784 } 4096 1175142 } 8192 2148761 } 16384 3106406 } 32768 4554752 } 65536 5485363 } 131072 5518131 } 262144 5557452 This was measured using raw device reads ? Ok. Using my 2GB Atlas (dd, 30 sec each): 512 811800 1024 1324517 2048 2097152 4096 4194304 16384 6068148 65536 7281777 (BTW: I've got 1585 transfers/s in the 512 byte test. That's 630 us per *transfer*. And the startup overhead can't possibly be higher :) Seems that 4KB transfers already offer more than 50% of the maximum data rate ... And 2KB transfers are already faster than most IDE systems (i.e. drive + motherboard) go. I know this will change when everybody got a Pentium/133 just to have faster IDE PIO mode 4 transfers :-) STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:14:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA00122 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:14:16 -0700 Received: from rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu (rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu [130.207.199.83]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA00115 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:14:14 -0700 Received: (from ken@localhost) by rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00822; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:13:39 -0400 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199510072313.TAA00822@rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510072115.HAA03150@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Oct 8, 95 07:15:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1365 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > That's not saying much. An IDE controller has a much lower command > overhead than the buslogic: > > Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB TOSHIBA MK537FB (slow disk): > Output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: > Command overhead is 4741 usec (time_4096 = 5164, time_8192 = 5586) > transfer speed is 9.6955e+06 bytes/sec > > Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB (QUANTUM XP34301 (fast disk): > output for disklatency /dev/rsd1: > Command overhead is 3968 usec (time_4096 = 4295, time_8192 = 4622) > transfer speed is 1.25286e+07 bytes/sec > > Cheap IDE on 486DX/33 ISA SAMSUNG SHD-3212A (slow disk): > output for disklatency /dev/rwd0: > Command overhead is 573 usec (time_4096 = 2830, time_8192 = 5087) > transfer speed is 1.81489e+06 bytes/sec > > A high command overhead causes slow file system operations for > everything except large i/o's. > > What are the command overheads of other popular controllers? Well, here's my go at it: Adaptec 2842 on a i486DX4/100 VLB (QUANTUM XP34300) (Atlas, fast disk) output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: Command overhead is 567 usec (time_4096 = 1002, time_8192 = 1438) transfer speed is 9.40748e+06 bytes/sec Oh yeah, my bus speed is 33 MHz, if that makes any difference. And I was running X, and some other stuff at the time... Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu Disclaimer: I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:17:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA00396 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:17:59 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA00391 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:17:56 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA12212 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:17:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199510072317.AA12212@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:17:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Justin T. Gibbs" "Re: VLB Disk Controllers" (Oct 7, 15:53) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 7, 15:53, "Justin T. Gibbs" wrote: } Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers } >IDE: 512/1815890 s + 573 us = 855 us } >NCR: 512/8799540 s + 751 us = 809 us } > } >Seems the NCR is faster on 512 byte transfers. } >Now I guess this is not really a "large i/o" :) } } What drive did you use for your tests? A Quantum XP32150 (2GB Atlas). But I've got values for a more "standard" 0.5GB drive as well (a DEC DSP3053L): Command overhead is 1161 usec (time_4096 = 1666, time_8192 = 2170) transfer speed is 8.12051e+06 bytes/sec (On my 486DX2/66 with NCR 53c810, again ...) STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:31:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA01357 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:31:25 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA01350 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:31:21 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA12665 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:30:58 +0100 Message-Id: <199510072330.AA12665@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:30:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: Bruce Evans "Re: VLB Disk Controllers" (Oct 8, 9:07) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 8, 9:07, Bruce Evans wrote: } Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers } >Yup, but your whole machine is affected by a PIO device. } } That's mainly because IDE PIO is slow, not because it's PIO. The } overhead for SCSI DMA is not insignificant. For the BT455C, which } has a DMA speed of up to 40MB/sec (I doubt that my bus can keep up } with this), the overhead for reading from a Grand Prix at 5MB/sec } seems to be about 27%. This is hard to measure accurately. I } measured it by running a hog process in the background: on an idle } system it took 7.58 sec (real) and while transferring it took 10.42 } sec. 7.58/10.42 = 73%. Well, the machine is more severely affected by a PIO device, than the CPU load indicates. The CPU must be able to respond to data becoming available within a very short time, or data may be lost. (Hmm, maybe the larger buffers of current IDE drives make this a non- issue ???) Anyway, just a data point: http://www-itg.lbl.gov/ISS/performance.ps contains SCSI controller performance data, and they get 24.5MB/s simultaneously reading from 6 drives connected to 3 NCR 53c810 controllers in pairs. The system is reported to be 70% idle under that load (it's a Pentium 100 with Triton chip set). Another system seems to saturate its bus at 20MB/s with no CPU idle time left. But since there is 25% idle time reported reading 19MB/s from 5 drives, I guess it's just a problem arbitrating for the PCI bus in that system's SiS chip set. Well, if the above 24.5MB/s at 30% CPU load number is true, then you should be able to get some 60 to 70MB/s before other processes are locked out ... STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:35:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA01640 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:35:50 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA01632 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:35:47 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA14520 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:35:35 +0100 Message-Id: <199510072335.AA14520@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:35:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Kenneth D. Merry" "Re: VLB Disk Controllers" (Oct 7, 19:13) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 7, 19:13, "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: } Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers } Adaptec 2842 on a i486DX4/100 VLB (QUANTUM XP34300) (Atlas, fast disk) } output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: } Command overhead is 567 usec (time_4096 = 1002, time_8192 = 1438) } transfer speed is 9.40748e+06 bytes/sec Well, you beat me, though not by much :) But then, you used a DX4/100 ... Something I just noticed is the big difference in results I get using /dev/rsd0 vs. /dev/rsd0a: # disklatency /dev/rsd0 Command overhead is 719 usec (time_4096 = 1198, time_8192 = 1677) transfer speed is 8.55617e+06 bytes/sec # disklatency /dev/rsd0a Command overhead is 807 usec (time_4096 = 1272, time_8192 = 1738) transfer speed is 8.80588e+06 bytes/sec Any ideas ??? STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:42:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA01939 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:42:45 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01934 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:42:43 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12848; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id TAA04860; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:42:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Bruce Evans cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-Reply-To: <199510072115.HAA03150@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Bruce Evans wrote: > >Justin Gibbs says, > > >>>Adaptec, Buslogic. Any possitive or negative comments on the drivers would > >>>be welcome. > >>> > >>>Dennis > >> > >>The 2842 seems to work well, supports tagged queuing and other advanced > >>SCSI II features that the buslogic (may be a driver limitation) does not. > >>The adaptec has much lower command overhead than the buslogic > > That's not saying much. An IDE controller has a much lower command > overhead than the buslogic: Bruce, I have tried that on my 486/66, using a 2842 with a Seagate ST42100, and I notice that I get different results every time I run it, do you know why? If that's supposed to be, then the results of that program really should be averaged, across multiple invocations before they really would show that accurately. > > Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB TOSHIBA MK537FB (slow disk): > Output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: > Command overhead is 4741 usec (time_4096 = 5164, time_8192 = 5586) > transfer speed is 9.6955e+06 bytes/sec > > Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB (QUANTUM XP34301 (fast disk): > output for disklatency /dev/rsd1: > Command overhead is 3968 usec (time_4096 = 4295, time_8192 = 4622) > transfer speed is 1.25286e+07 bytes/sec > > Cheap IDE on 486DX/33 ISA SAMSUNG SHD-3212A (slow disk): > output for disklatency /dev/rwd0: > Command overhead is 573 usec (time_4096 = 2830, time_8192 = 5087) > transfer speed is 1.81489e+06 bytes/sec > [rest deleted to save mail bw] ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:49:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA02506 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:49:46 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA02488 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:49:39 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA07022; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 09:48:03 +1000 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 09:48:03 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510072348.JAA07022@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, se@zpr.uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >} >Seems the NCR is faster on 512 byte transfers. >} >} Nope, the 573 us is for _8_ transfers of 512 bytes because my drive >} doesn't support multi-mode, and it's on a slower machine :-). I'm >} surprised that it is as high as 573/8 = 72 us per command. This is all >} host software (not bus related) overhead except for about 10 usec to >} write the command to the controller. >Don't think so. There are 16 transfers in the 8KB test, >and thus the per sector overhead is in fact accounted >for in the transfer rate ! That's true for IDE, but not for SCSI. The NCR would be much slower if it was forced to issue 7 more commands per 4K. That's part of its advantage. However, multi-sector transfers for IDE might give the same advantage to IDE. The reduction in the command overhead would not be 7 * 72, it would be 7 * (72 - drive_overhead_per_sector). It's likely that the drive processor is slower than an i486 and possible that the drive processor+firmware is slower than an i486+software. Thus the reduction may be negative :-). Actually :-(. >} 512 168550 >}... >} 262144 5557452 >This was measured using raw device reads ? Yes, on the inner tracks. >Ok. Using my 2GB Atlas (dd, 30 sec each): > 512 811800 > 1024 1324517 > 2048 2097152 > 4096 4194304 > 16384 6068148 > 65536 7281777 dd is not so good for this sort of test because the time for outputtinh to /dev/null is significant. Both my benchmark and dd have granularity problems - they count the time in seconds. They should use gettimeofday() instead of time(). >(BTW: I've got 1585 transfers/s in the 512 byte test. >That's 630 us per *transfer*. And the startup overhead >can't possibly be higher :) The NCR seems to be a bit faster than the Adaptec 2842. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:53:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA02815 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:53:29 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA02806 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:53:25 -0700 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA06274; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:53:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199510072353.RAA06274@rover.village.org> To: Mark Hittinger Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 07 Oct 1995 16:30:28 EDT Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 17:53:18 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : I have had problems with vlb cards running above 33 MHZ. The effect appears : like the loss of interrupts or extreme interrupt latency. I have seen this : especially bad on amd 486dx2/80 (vlb clk 40mhz) and 486dx2/100 (vlb clk 50mhz). : I suspect the problem would exist on 486dx50 as well. The VLB spec doesn't go above 33MHz for two or more cards. It goes, I'm told, to 50MHz for one card, but I've also heard that the 33MHz limit is hard, so I don't know what to believe. Either way, it isn't surprizing that you've had problems with one i na 40MHz or 50MHz system, since you'll likely have a video card on that bus as well. I've had no problems with my VLB UltraStor 34F and either a no name ET4000 card, or an S3 #9 Lvl 11 at 33MHz. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:54:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA02908 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:54:05 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA02903 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:54:02 -0700 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA06285; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:53:50 -0600 Message-Id: <199510072353.RAA06285@rover.village.org> To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: Mark Hittinger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 07 Oct 1995 16:54:41 EDT Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 17:53:50 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : One big issue with VLB is that you have to know how to tune the bus. Most : MBs have tuning parameters to overcome these problems. How does one tune the VLB bus? My MB doesn't seem to have parameters for its tuning. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 16:55:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA03008 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:55:33 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA03003 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 16:55:20 -0700 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA06310 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:55:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199510072355.RAA06310@rover.village.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 07 Oct 1995 15:00:01 PDT Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 17:55:09 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk BTW, how does one measure the command overhead for a VLB SCSI controller card? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 17:05:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA03509 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:05:06 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03497 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:05:00 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA07573; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:02:17 +1000 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:02:17 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510080002.KAA07573@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, chuckr@eng.umd.edu Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Bruce, I have tried that on my 486/66, using a 2842 with a Seagate >ST42100, and I notice that I get different results every time I run it, >do you know why? If that's supposed to be, then the results of that >program really should be averaged, across multiple invocations before >they really would show that accurately. There's some inherent randomness, and the benchmark isn't as careful as it could be. It could begin by reading from track 0 to eliminate the initial seek time, if any. But you can run it twice ans mostly ignore the results of the first run to get the same effect (of course the disk must not be used by other processes or the contents of track 0 will be flushed from the drive's cache. It should have a time arg so that it can run for longer itself... Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 17:22:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA04626 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:22:46 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA04615 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:22:43 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA26728; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:22:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199510080022.RAA26728@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser) cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Oct 1995 00:35:34 BST." <199510072335.AA14520@Sysiphos> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 17:22:10 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Oct 7, 19:13, "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: >} Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers > >} Adaptec 2842 on a i486DX4/100 VLB (QUANTUM XP34300) (Atlas, fast disk) >} output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: >} Command overhead is 567 usec (time_4096 = 1002, time_8192 = 1438) >} transfer speed is 9.40748e+06 bytes/sec > >Well, you beat me, though not by much :) The important thing is that we have support for enough controllers in FreeBSD that we can actually bicker about which is faster. :) >Something I just noticed is the big difference >in results I get using /dev/rsd0 vs. /dev/rsd0a: > ># disklatency /dev/rsd0 >Command overhead is 719 usec (time_4096 = 1198, time_8192 = 1677) >transfer speed is 8.55617e+06 bytes/sec > ># disklatency /dev/rsd0a >Command overhead is 807 usec (time_4096 = 1272, time_8192 = 1738) >transfer speed is 8.80588e+06 bytes/sec > >Any ideas ??? Slice code? It may be that we take some steps to validate the disklable for that partition, do additional range checks etc. Bruce probably knows. >STefan > >-- > Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 > Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 > ============================================================================= >= > http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 17:30:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA04980 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:30:08 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA04966 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 17:30:03 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA08418; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:26:19 +1000 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:26:19 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510080026.KAA08418@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, se@zpr.uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Well, the machine is more severely affected by a PIO >device, than the CPU load indicates. The CPU must be >able to respond to data becoming available within a >very short time, or data may be lost. (Hmm, maybe the >larger buffers of current IDE drives make this a non- >issue ???) PIO is more bursty. Consider transferring 64K at 2MB/sec. That's 32 ms (more than 3 clock ticks) during which softclock() won't run, so timeout functions won't get called. Most interrupts had better have higher priority than PIO devices, and 2 hoggish PIO devices are likely to block each other for too long. This could be handled by time slicing the interrupt handlers. Data loss is only a serious problem for volatile input. Input from drives is nonvolatile and anyway a mere 64K cache would probably be large enough for input at a few MB/sec (it's serial chips with 1 byte fifos at that lose data :-). >Anyway, just a data point: > http://www-itg.lbl.gov/ISS/performance.ps >contains SCSI controller performance data, and they >get 24.5MB/s simultaneously reading from 6 drives >connected to 3 NCR 53c810 controllers in pairs. >The system is reported to be 70% idle under that load >(it's a Pentium 100 with Triton chip set). EIDE certainly can't compete with that. At best it will achieve 15MB/sec throughput on a Pentium 1e6 :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 18:08:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA07245 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 18:08:21 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA07236 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 18:08:17 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id UAA24590; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 20:58:18 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 20:58:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: can't delete chfn To: -Vince- cc: J Wunsch , FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, -Vince- wrote: > On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, -Vince- wrote: > > > I just did alias dir ls -lo and here's the output: > > > > > > root@apollo [3:58pm][/usr/bin] >> dir chfn > > > -r-sr-xr-x 1 root bin schg 20480 Jul 26 07:57 chfn > > ^^^^ > > schg prevents you from replacing the file. > > the same should be true of your kernel. do a 'chflags noschg /usr/bin/chfn' > > Hmm, but it seems like it was make world that did this so make world > is preventing new make worlds from happening? make world does not install a new kernel. this is no related to make world. the schg flag is set by make install in a kernel compilation directory. Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 18:24:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08040 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 18:24:20 -0700 Received: from dawnrazor.campus.luth.se (root@dawnrazor.campus.luth.se [130.240.193.73]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08015 ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 18:24:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dawnrazor.campus.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA18898; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 02:17:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199510080117.CAA18898@dawnrazor.campus.luth.se> X-Authentication-Warning: dawnrazor.campus.luth.se: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Netscape 2.0beta1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Oct 1995 02:17:24 +0100 From: Olof Johansson Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello folks, I'd just like to say that Netscape 2.0b1 runs just fine under FreeBSD. Well, as fine as it can anyway, it's really buggy. But then it's a beta. No Java support yet either. I don't know if it's any use in adding it as a binary-only port, but it can't hurt if someone does that. The place I got it from is: ftp://ftp.luth.se/pub/infosystems/netscape/2.0beta or http://ftp.luth.se/pub/infosystems/netscape/2.0beta I don't know where the 'real' place to get it is. Though release notes etc is available at: http://www.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/2.0/relnotes/ -Olof From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 19:10:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA10619 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:10:48 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA10586 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:10:19 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA11808; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 12:04:47 +1000 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 12:04:47 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510080204.MAA11808@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ken@rflab1.gtri.gatech.edu Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>Something I just noticed is the big difference >>in results I get using /dev/rsd0 vs. /dev/rsd0a: >> >># disklatency /dev/rsd0 >>Command overhead is 719 usec (time_4096 = 1198, time_8192 = 1677) >>transfer speed is 8.55617e+06 bytes/sec >> >># disklatency /dev/rsd0a >>Command overhead is 807 usec (time_4096 = 1272, time_8192 = 1738) >>transfer speed is 8.80588e+06 bytes/sec >> >>Any ideas ??? >Slice code? It may be that we take some steps to validate the disklable >for that partition, do additional range checks etc. Bruce probably >knows. It shouldn't be that large. Perhaps the first 16 sectors of rsd0a span a physical track boundary and the drive doesn't handle this well. Perhaps the benchmark is less accurate than you expect. It takes a difference of two times that may be close together so the variance of the difference may be large. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 19:34:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA11387 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:34:07 -0700 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA11382 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:34:04 -0700 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23870; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id WAA13550; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:33:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Stefan Esser cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-Reply-To: <199510072335.AA14520@Sysiphos> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Stefan Esser wrote: > On Oct 7, 19:13, "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: > } Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers > > } Adaptec 2842 on a i486DX4/100 VLB (QUANTUM XP34300) (Atlas, fast disk) > } output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: > } Command overhead is 567 usec (time_4096 = 1002, time_8192 = 1438) > } transfer speed is 9.40748e+06 bytes/sec > > Well, you beat me, though not by much :) > > But then, you used a DX4/100 ... > > Something I just noticed is the big difference > in results I get using /dev/rsd0 vs. /dev/rsd0a: > > # disklatency /dev/rsd0 > Command overhead is 719 usec (time_4096 = 1198, time_8192 = 1677) > transfer speed is 8.55617e+06 bytes/sec > > # disklatency /dev/rsd0a > Command overhead is 807 usec (time_4096 = 1272, time_8192 = 1738) > transfer speed is 8.80588e+06 bytes/sec I just did that 10 times in a row with my 2842, and reading differing over a 2:1 range. I think there's some windage here that makes your comparison suspect. Try it a few tries in a row on the same drive. > > Any ideas ??? > > STefan > > -- > Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 > Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 > ============================================================================== > http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 19:42:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA11962 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:42:53 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA11947 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:42:47 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA27014; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 19:42:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199510080242.TAA27014@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Chuck Robey cc: Stefan Esser , "Kenneth D. Merry" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Oct 1995 22:33:58 EDT." Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 19:42:12 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Stefan Esser wrote: > >I just did that 10 times in a row with my 2842, and reading differing >over a 2:1 range. I think there's some windage here that makes your >comparison suspect. Try it a few tries in a row on the same drive. narnia# ./disklate /dev/rsd1 Command overhead is 1308 usec (time_4096 = 2749, time_8192 = 4191) transfer speed is 2.8409e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1 Command overhead is 1310 usec (time_4096 = 2751, time_8192 = 4191) transfer speed is 2.84322e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1 Command overhead is 1273 usec (time_4096 = 2752, time_8192 = 4230) transfer speed is 2.77012e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1 Command overhead is 1305 usec (time_4096 = 2749, time_8192 = 4192) transfer speed is 2.83721e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1 Command overhead is 1310 usec (time_4096 = 2752, time_8192 = 4194) transfer speed is 2.84056e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1 Command overhead is 1298 usec (time_4096 = 2750, time_8192 = 4202) transfer speed is 2.82092e+06 bytes/sec And on a partition: narnia# ./disklate /dev/rsd1e Command overhead is 1353 usec (time_4096 = 2823, time_8192 = 4292) transfer speed is 2.78737e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1e Command overhead is 1396 usec (time_4096 = 2835, time_8192 = 4275) transfer speed is 2.84511e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1e Command overhead is 1379 usec (time_4096 = 2827, time_8192 = 4274) transfer speed is 2.83049e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1e Command overhead is 1387 usec (time_4096 = 2832, time_8192 = 4277) transfer speed is 2.83483e+06 bytes/sec narnia# !! ./disklate /dev/rsd1e Command overhead is 1392 usec (time_4096 = 2829, time_8192 = 4267) transfer speed is 2.84952e+06 bytes/sec I don't get much variance. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 21:52:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA17343 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:52:11 -0700 Received: from pelican.com (pelican.com [134.24.4.62]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA17336 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:52:06 -0700 Received: from puffin.pelican.com by pelican.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0t1niT-000K2mC; Sat, 7 Oct 95 21:52 WET DST Received: by puffin.pelican.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #9) id m0t1niT-0000ReC; Sat, 7 Oct 95 21:52 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 21:52 PDT From: pete@puffin.pelican.com (Pete Carah) To: julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: TCP/IP Spoofing etc. In-Reply-To: <199510072005.NAA11885@ref.tfs.com> Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199510072005.NAA11885@ref.tfs.com> you write: >I have to explain to someone the possible problems >that might be encountered by using old software on a >machine in the internet. >One thing that came to mind is that it's possible this role >might include some 'firewall' type duties. I don't know about these unless it makes use of single-packet TTCP... >(p.s. I need this info pretty quickl (as per normal)) >(I.P.Spoofing is another thing I'm sorta curious about.. >I guess there may be CERT notes on these right?) Steve Bellovin (Bell Labs) is the reference I remember; there are several others. I've modified several FreeBSD kernels to foil the sequence-number attack (but one wants a better system than mine to do it "right"; if I let out how I did it it wouldn't work.) (Nice to have access to the source :-) >(got a cert URL?) ftp.cert.org. I don't know about a web server but it would have the obvious name if it exists. Their reports are purposely obscured (but at least tell you that attacks exist); for more detail see 8lgm and other stuff in comp.security.unix and comp.security.misc. The latest cert report was a summary of the 'announced' bugs which are still outstanding on popular systems... I don't know which ones we are susceptible to; we are using the latest (or next-latest) sendmail which has plugged many of them. -- Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 7 23:16:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA20200 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 23:16:33 -0700 Received: from pelican.com (pelican.com [134.24.4.62]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA20185 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 23:16:26 -0700 Received: from puffin.pelican.com by pelican.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0t1p28-000K2mC; Sat, 7 Oct 95 23:16 WET DST Received: by puffin.pelican.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #9) id m0t1p27-0000ReC; Sat, 7 Oct 95 23:16 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 23:16 PDT From: pete@puffin.pelican.com (Pete Carah) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VLB Disk Controllers In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Bruce, I have tried that on my 486/66, using a 2842 with a Seagate >ST42100, and I notice that I get different results every time I run it, >do you know why? If that's supposed to be, then the results of that >program really should be averaged, across multiple invocations before >they really would show that accurately. >> Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB TOSHIBA MK537FB (slow disk): >> Output for disklatency /dev/rsd0: >> Command overhead is 4741 usec (time_4096 = 5164, time_8192 = 5586) >> transfer speed is 9.6955e+06 bytes/sec >> >> Buslogic BT44C on 486DX2/66 VLB (QUANTUM XP34301 (fast disk): >> output for disklatency /dev/rsd1: >> Command overhead is 3968 usec (time_4096 = 4295, time_8192 = 4622) >> transfer speed is 1.25286e+07 bytes/sec >> >> Cheap IDE on 486DX/33 ISA SAMSUNG SHD-3212A (slow disk): >> output for disklatency /dev/rwd0: >> Command overhead is 573 usec (time_4096 = 2830, time_8192 = 5087) >> transfer speed is 1.81489e+06 bytes/sec Just for the heck of it I tried this program on the high-bandwidth machine at work (a 4x150mhz R4400 onyx, which should be idle late on Saturday night) wide-diff 4.3gb (not LP) barracuda: ringworld:9# ./disklatency /dev/rroot Command overhead is 1022 usec (time_4096 = 1332, time_8192 = 1642) transfer speed is 1.32142e+07 bytes/sec wide-diff 4.3gb (not LP) barracuda: ringworld:10# ./disklatency /dev/rusr Command overhead is 1067 usec (time_4096 = 1352, time_8192 = 1636) transfer speed is 1.44014e+07 bytes/sec elite? 9gb (5.25" full-height; narrow single-ended scsi): ringworld:4# ./disklatency /dev/rdsk/dks0d3s6 Command overhead is 1792 usec (time_4096 = 2220, time_8192 = 2648) transfer speed is 9.57123e+06 bytes/sec elite? 9gb (5.25" full-height; narrow single-ended scsi): ringworld:5# ./disklatency /dev/rdsk/dks0d4s6 Command overhead is 1895 usec (time_4096 = 2271, time_8192 = 2648) transfer speed is 1.08755e+07 bytes/sec old seagate? 1.6g drive (some of these were IBM): ringworld:6# ./disklatency /dev/rdsk/dks0d6s0 Command overhead is 16650 usec (time_4096 = 16648, time_8192 = 16646) transfer speed is -2.67712e+09 bytes/sec old seagate? 1.6g drive (some of these were IBM): ringworld:7# ./disklatency /dev/rdsk/dks0d6s6 Command overhead is 16671 usec (time_4096 = 16668, time_8192 = 16664) transfer speed is -1.2812e+09 bytes/sec Among other things the 1.6 drive has a problem; maybe it's doing recals... (though it doesn't have a problem with iozone so something else may be wrong like relocated blocks near the beginning of the partitions or something such) (and it shows a problem in the program's checking of out-of-range data; somehow I doubt that the rate is really negative...) The fairly high command overhead could be just from being sys5 (irix 5.3), though SGI used to be fairly good at fixing this.... The SCSI controllers are the standard SGI in-house ones (WD 33C95A) These drives are all (except maybe the old 1.6g drive?) variable-frequency so one end or the other of the seek range should have faster data-transfer. They are all in the internal drive cage so cabling shouldn't be a problem. (SGI is famous for *very* critical cable requirements; Rod notes that lots of our more modern controllers show this too...) IOZONE shows about 5.7Mb transfer rate on all drives for big enough files to avoid the disk buffer (512MB!!; the machine has 320mb ram and SGI uses all available ram for buffers. They also (supposedly) page-flip aligned requests but going to a page-aligned buffer in iozone didn't change the rate.) The filesystem looks like UFS but it is extent-based... No wonder they use raw disks for video streaming; you still need 2-3 raw drives at a time even with the wide drive rates here to get D1 rate (27Mbyte/sec sustained) (and 6 or so at a time if you use the filesystem) (btw - iozone in core (<64mb files) gives 24mb write and 39mb read...) and dd of 512mb of raw disk to /dev/null with the same 32k blocksize I was using for iozone gave 6.9Mb/s on the wide drive and 6.4 on the narrow fast ones. -- Pete