From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 9 21:54:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA19980 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.100.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA19962 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldrog.cs.uidaho.edu (waldrog.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.100.23]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07754; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by waldrog.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id VAA11299; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:54:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: waldrog.cs.uidaho.edu: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Sean Kelly cc: reyes01@ibm.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Snazzier FreeBSD home page In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:35:35 PDT." <199606081935.TAA00006@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 21:54:39 PDT Message-ID: <11297.834382479@waldrog.cs.uidaho.edu> From: faried nawaz Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Kelly wrote... Not so fast. Consider first that Netscape Navigator is probably the world's most popular browser, available on a wide variety of platforms and with similar feature sets amongst the lot of them. I think taking a probabilistic approach here won't hurt. That majority of the audience would be more pleased to see us take advantage of their browser's advanced features. How about NeoWebScript? Should work for more browsers. http://www.neosoft.com/neowebscript/ (which is a FreeBSD box) Besides, didn't Jordan say that there'd be a browser selection page? That would be nice. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 10 07:01:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA15035 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA15023 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emu.fsl.noaa.gov (kelly@emu.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.32]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA04847; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:01:14 GMT Message-Id: <199606101401.OAA04847@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA207695273; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:01:14 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:01:14 -0600 From: Sean Kelly To: nawaz921@cs.uidaho.edu Cc: reyes01@ibm.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11297.834382479@waldrog.cs.uidaho.edu> (message from faried nawaz on Sun, 09 Jun 1996 21:54:39 PDT) Subject: Re: Snazzier FreeBSD home page Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Faried" == faried nawaz writes: Faried> How about NeoWebScript? Should work for more browsers. Faried> http://www.neosoft.com/neowebscript/ (which is a FreeBSD Faried> box) NeoWeb could do it. And it's pretty cool, too---but I am a biased Tcl hacker. :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 10 13:32:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17132 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17116; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTDco-0004JrC; Mon, 10 Jun 96 13:31 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:31:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BeBox mention of FreeBSD... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Saw this in the latest issue of the Be newsletter. Apparently I'm a registered Be developer now, but I'm going to save my money for a little bit before springing to buy one. Any BeBox owners on this list want to comment? For those of you who haven't heard of Be, http://www.be.com/ Thomas J. Merritt, president of CodeGen, on the BeBox: "I think it would make a terrific networking server. The only other thing that comes close in price/performance is a generic PC loaded with FreeBSD, ^^^^^^^ but that's a pain to configure. Windows NT and pay-for UNIX cost more, and other desktop OS's don't offer memory protection or other niceties the BeBox has." Parag adds, "With the GeekPort, the BeBox could also be nice as a user-friendly factory floor controller." ---Jake From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 10 14:57:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA02475 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02456; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04670; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:57:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606102157.OAA04670@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: BeBox mention of FreeBSD... To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:57:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Jun 10, 96 01:31:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Saw this in the latest issue of the Be newsletter. Apparently I'm a > registered Be developer now, but I'm going to save my money for a little > bit before springing to buy one. Any BeBox owners on this list want to > comment? For those of you who haven't heard of Be, http://www.be.com/ > > Thomas J. Merritt, president of CodeGen, on the BeBox: > "I think it would make a terrific networking server. The only other thing > that comes close in price/performance is a generic PC loaded with FreeBSD, > ^^^^^^^ > but that's a pain to configure. Windows NT and pay-for UNIX cost more, and > other desktop OS's don't offer memory protection or other niceties the > BeBox has." Parag adds, "With the GeekPort, the BeBox could also be nice > as a user-friendly factory floor controller." I saw that too... I've been a registered developer for a while now. I have previous PPC commitments which I am struggling to meet, so I can't really throw any work into yet another box at this time. If you've been following thecomp.sys.powerpc group from the early days, Gassee and I exchanged some articles where he was very pro a third party OS for their box (I have more private email bolstering that opinion) and there is an outstanding public offer of support from Be to that effect (if anyone is interested). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 10 16:12:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA16540 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA16530; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA06992; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:08:38 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606102338.JAA06992@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: BeBox mention of FreeBSD... To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:08:37 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Jun 10, 96 01:31:42 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry would probably have something to say here... Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: > > Thomas J. Merritt, president of CodeGen, on the BeBox: > "I think it would make a terrific networking server. The only other thing > that comes close in price/performance is a generic PC loaded with FreeBSD, > ^^^^^^^ > but that's a pain to configure. Windows NT and pay-for UNIX cost more, and *snort* How is anything going to be anything less 'painful' to configure? Last I read the only ethernet adapter the Be OS supported was the NE2000, which makes for a great network server, riiight. > other desktop OS's don't offer memory protection or other niceties the > BeBox has." Parag adds, "With the GeekPort, the BeBox could also be nice > as a user-friendly factory floor controller." Anyone who puts a BeBox on the 'factory floor' has rocks in their head. The 'GeekPort' isn't up to any sort of serious industrial interfacing, and the BeBox box wouldn't have a hope of survival. > ---Jake -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 10 16:56:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA25402 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25397; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA05054; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:55:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606102355.QAA05054@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: BeBox mention of FreeBSD... To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:55:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606102338.JAA06992@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jun 11, 96 09:08:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry would probably have something to say here... Yup. > Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: > > > > Thomas J. Merritt, president of CodeGen, on the BeBox: > > "I think it would make a terrific networking server. The only other thing > > that comes close in price/performance is a generic PC loaded with FreeBSD, > > ^^^^^^^ > > but that's a pain to configure. Windows NT and pay-for UNIX cost more, and > > *snort* How is anything going to be anything less 'painful' to configure? > Last I read the only ethernet adapter the Be OS supported was the NE2000, > which makes for a great network server, riiight. Well, there are drivers for other boards now. It'd be pretty easy to port BSD drivers for the thing. > > other desktop OS's don't offer memory protection or other niceties the > > BeBox has." Parag adds, "With the GeekPort, the BeBox could also be nice > > as a user-friendly factory floor controller." > > Anyone who puts a BeBox on the 'factory floor' has rocks in their head. > The 'GeekPort' isn't up to any sort of serious industrial interfacing, > and the BeBox box wouldn't have a hope of survival. Actually, the BeOS has good RT support that FreeBSD lacks. Coupled with the RS-485 capable ports, it's make an OK control box, though it seems more like a prototype set-top box than anything else to me. I would have a hard time trusting the "geekport" because of the ISA interfacing logic used throughout... I wish they had used the Apple or Motorolla or DEC parts and not put an ISA in there at all (stayed straight PCI). The argument at the time was lack of ethernet (not a problem) sound (GUS, etc. -- not a problem), and internal support for IDE (which is a dumb idea anyway, when they have SCSI). So, "geekport" aside, I think that it would make a nice little embedded systems controller. I remember when IOmega was using Commodore 64's loaded from tape drives to run their optical interferometry hardware for their Zirconium bonding in their Bernoulli heads. Don't underestimate cheap hardware with NMI-based scheduling. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 10 17:06:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA26632 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26612; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uTGyY-0004KBC; Mon, 10 Jun 96 17:06 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BeBox mention of FreeBSD... In-Reply-To: <199606102338.JAA06992@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 11 Jun 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > Terry would probably have something to say here... > > Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: > > > > Thomas J. Merritt, president of CodeGen, on the BeBox: > > "I think it would make a terrific networking server. The only other thing > > that comes close in price/performance is a generic PC loaded with FreeBSD, > > ^^^^^^^ > > but that's a pain to configure. Windows NT and pay-for UNIX cost more, and > > *snort* How is anything going to be anything less 'painful' to configure? > Last I read the only ethernet adapter the Be OS supported was the NE2000, > which makes for a great network server, riiight. The BeBox would be less painful to configure if Be had control over the hardware specs (a la Macintosh or Sun), which since they are using stock PCI and ISA cards, they don't. Therefore it is not "plug and play" any more than a PC running FreeBSD. And I agree the driver support for these PCI and ISA cards is very limited (though to their credit, the NE2000 is THE most popular card and clones only cost $20, so the average hobbyist will love it). But I think the author meant that UNIX is a pain to configure, whereas BeOS is all point and click, but unlike the MacOS has a serious multithreaded, SMP kernel under the hood. > > other desktop OS's don't offer memory protection or other niceties the > > BeBox has." Parag adds, "With the GeekPort, the BeBox could also be nice > > as a user-friendly factory floor controller." > > Anyone who puts a BeBox on the 'factory floor' has rocks in their head. > The 'GeekPort' isn't up to any sort of serious industrial interfacing, > and the BeBox box wouldn't have a hope of survival. Yeah, the GeekPort is strictly for hobbyists. A factory floor needs a GPIB (the old IEEE-488) controller, most likely would not be too difficult to interface an ISA IEEE-488 card to a BeBox (but if you're doing that, just get a PC). After all, lots of factories used Commodore 64's originally to control the factory line because of the readily available IEEE cartridges. Scary thought! ---Jake > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ > ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 10 17:32:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA29397 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29388; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA07546; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:27:26 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606110057.KAA07546@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: BeBox mention of FreeBSD... To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:27:25 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606102355.QAA05054@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jun 10, 96 04:55:16 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > > Anyone who puts a BeBox on the 'factory floor' has rocks in their head. > > The 'GeekPort' isn't up to any sort of serious industrial interfacing, > > and the BeBox box wouldn't have a hope of survival. > > Actually, the BeOS has good RT support that FreeBSD lacks. Coupled > with the RS-485 capable ports, it's make an OK control box, though > it seems more like a prototype set-top box than anything else to me. I'm not knocking the BeOS - I know next to nothing about it. I _did_ however spend a fair amount of time studying the available lit. on the physical hardware, and it's another desktop box. It's just not up to surviving a 'factory floor' environment. It needs an IP555 or better case to start with, and a real power supply. > I would have a hard time trusting the "geekport" because of the > ISA interfacing logic used throughout... I wish they had used the More of a worry is the lack of any sort of real isolation on the port. One slip with your prototype and the motherboard is toast. Not much of an "experimenters' dream" if you ask me. > So, "geekport" aside, I think that it would make a nice little > embedded systems controller. Too big. Too expensive. > I remember when IOmega was using Commodore 64's loaded from tape > drives to run their optical interferometry hardware for their > Zirconium bonding in their Bernoulli heads. Don't underestimate > cheap hardware with NMI-based scheduling. I'm not. But the Be isn't particularly cheap, and certainly isn't particularly physically or electrically robust. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled diet of "CVS week". > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 10 17:57:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA02308 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02300 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA02108 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:57:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199606110057.RAA02108@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BeBox mention of FreeBSD... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:57:15 PDT." <199606102157.OAA04670@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:57:17 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > Saw this in the latest issue of the Be newsletter. Apparently I'm a > > registered Be developer now, but I'm going to save my money for a little > > bit before springing to buy one. Any BeBox owners on this list want to > > comment? For those of you who haven't heard of Be, http://www.be.com/ > > > > Thomas J. Merritt, president of CodeGen, on the BeBox: > > "I think it would make a terrific networking server. The only other thing > > that comes close in price/performance is a generic PC loaded with FreeBSD, > > ^^^^^^^ > > but that's a pain to configure. Windows NT and pay-for UNIX cost more, and You know I got to admit that it is a real pain in the butt to configure your network devices with sysinstall 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 11 07:51:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA05111 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA05099 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA03246; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:50:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Michael Smith cc: Terry Lambert , jehamby@lightside.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BeBox mention of FreeBSD... In-Reply-To: <199606110057.KAA07546@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 11 Jun 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > > It's just not up to surviving a 'factory floor' environment. It needs > an IP555 or better case to start with, and a real power supply. I think he was referring to the architecture of the box, rather than the (one) physical implementation. It will definitely need an industrial-strength case and power supply, a filtered air cooling system and a rack-mount chassis. Still, it seems like overkill using a BeBox as a controller when an old C64 or Apple II or IBM XT would do... [-hackers removed from the cc:] -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 11 14:51:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00287 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00265 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA15364 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:51:27 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA03604 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:51:27 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA15759 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:46:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199606112146.XAA15759@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Don't hit.. To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:46:38 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199606110858.BAA15193@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 11, 96 01:58:32 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [better move it to -chat] As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Here's a really warped and twisted idea I just got.. You know how > most commercial software installers take advantage of the "dead time" > during system installation to give the user lots of handy tips... Dead time? Ah! You mean the time while the kernel is read off the floppy! That's about the longest period of time the installation seems to take lately. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 11 15:04:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA01212 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01207 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emu.fsl.noaa.gov (kelly@emu.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.32]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA12499; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:04:13 GMT Message-Id: <199606112204.WAA12499@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA295460652; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:04:12 -0600 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:04:12 -0600 From: Sean Kelly To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606112146.XAA15759@uriah.heep.sax.de> (message from J Wunsch on Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:46:38 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: Don't hit.. Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "J"org" == J Wunsch writes: J"org> Ah! You mean the time while the kernel is read off the J"org> floppy! That's about the longest period of time the J"org> installation seems to take lately. :-) Okay, now you're just being mean! (Mommy, PPP's too slow. Can I have multiple T3's? :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 11 15:51:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA04498 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04461 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA17083 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:50:57 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA04541 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:50:57 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA21470 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:34:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199606112234.AAA21470@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Don't hit.. To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:34:29 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199606112204.WAA12499@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov> from Sean Kelly at "Jun 11, 96 04:04:12 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Sean Kelly wrote: > J"org> Ah! You mean the time while the kernel is read off the > J"org> floppy! That's about the longest period of time the > J"org> installation seems to take lately. :-) > > Okay, now you're just being mean! > > (Mommy, PPP's too slow. Can I have multiple T3's? :-) The above was off a CDROM in a well-equipped SCSI box, of course. ;) (Seriously, the quickest way to remove the BSD bootstrap again was to re-install the bindist, and ``dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rsd0 count=100''. Installing the bindist took less time than finding some messy dos floppy that could do this. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 12 19:09:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA21675 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Access.Mountain.Net (root@Access.Mountain.Net [198.77.1.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21668 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Slip22-14.Mountain.Net (Slip22-14.Mountain.Net [198.77.1.166]) by Access.Mountain.Net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA29991 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 22:09:28 -0400 Message-ID: <31BF97BC.5E2D@access.mountain.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:23:24 -0700 From: Jeremy Sigmon Reply-To: jsigmon@www.hsc.wvu.edu Organization: WVU Graduate Student X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Any alternatives for kbhit() and getch Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: news.mountain.net!usenet From: Jeremy Sigmon Newsgroups: comp.unix.programmer Subject: Any alternatives for kbhit() and getch Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:47:11 -0700 Organization: WVU Graduate Student Lines: 19 Message-ID: <31BF8F3F.2052@access.mountain.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip22-14.mountain.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) I am writing a timed program. I need to be checking the time while waiting for input. This is to be written as much as possible in ANSI C. With DOS(gak) I would use: while(!kbhit()); char_input = getch(); But kbhit isn't available and the getch() routines in curses have some very funny properties. For instance a CR isn't counted as a character for the above routine and such.... Are there any implementations of these two functions for UNIX? Or any suggestions using other functions? thanks Please reply by EMail because I only check this once per week. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 13 02:54:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA10564 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 02:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA10547 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 02:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28598 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:54:02 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id LAA30483 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:53:13 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.4/keltia-uucp-2.8) id LAA08828 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:04:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199606130904.LAA08828@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Holidays To: chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Chat Mailing List) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:04:10 +0200 (MET DST) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2103 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'll be in Ireland for one week starting friday. Messages will be saved of course. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #10: Tue Jun 11 13:36:57 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 13 14:51:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA20735 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20711 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA23218; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:51:02 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA16996; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:51:01 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA15302; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:28:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199606132128.XAA15302@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Any alternatives for kbhit() and getch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:28:38 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jsigmon@www.hsc.wvu.edu Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <31BF97BC.5E2D@access.mountain.net> from Jeremy Sigmon at "Jun 12, 96 09:23:24 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jeremy Sigmon wrote: > I am writing a timed program. I need to be checking the > time while waiting for input. This is to be written as much as > possible in ANSI C. It's impossible in ANSI C (kbhit() ain't ANSI either). For the Unix environment, use select(2). It also handles the timing for you. You might need to turn the terminal into ``raw'' mode as well, otherwise all input processing will be handled in terms of lines. RTFM termios(7) for this. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 13 23:36:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA11453 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (slc42.xmission.com [204.228.136.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA11447 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA00433; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 00:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 00:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199606140635.AAA00433@obie.softweyr.com> From: wes@intele.net To: jsigmon@www.hsc.wvu.edu CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any alternatives for kbhit() and getch In-Reply-To: <199606132128.XAA15302@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <31BF97BC.5E2D@access.mountain.net> <199606132128.XAA15302@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeremy Sigmon asked: % I am writing a timed program. I need to be checking the % time while waiting for input. This is to be written as much as % possible in ANSI C. Joerg Wunsch cleverly replied: > It's impossible in ANSI C (kbhit() ain't ANSI either). > > For the Unix environment, use select(2). It also handles the timing > for you. You might need to turn the terminal into ``raw'' mode as > well, otherwise all input processing will be handled in terms of lines. > RTFM termios(7) for this. You will most certainly need to put the terminal into raw mode; see cfmakeraw(3) while you're spelunking in the man pages. If you want to do reads that may be "timed out", select(2) is ideal. If you want to time the execution of your program, you may use the time(1) command, or simply call gettimeofday at the beginning and end of your program and print the difference. -- Wes Peters | Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late Softweyr | The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder Consulting | I'm an over forty victim of fate... softweyr@xmission.com | Jimmy Buffett From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 14 11:19:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA04739 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04726; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA00368; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:18:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199606141818.NAA00368@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Nerd Talk cc: chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:18:55 -0500 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is kind of nice that we are not that far behind 8) On Jun 14, 12:45pm, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Subject: Cause is Friday... > > > I must warn you is X Files Nite!. Coming to think about it are you > going to be around tonite? > > Boy, I was out this morning... > > > Sony is going to announce on monday a new PC !!! > You can watch tv (ooh), play CDs, and place phone calls! you could have announced rah and beat them by a year ! > > Wow they are really going to be advanced PCs.... > > Love You, > Owwwl >-- End of excerpt from Amancio Hasty From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 14 13:59:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17145 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [207.67.176.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17135; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uUfxf-0004KBC; Fri, 14 Jun 96 13:59 PDT Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:59:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Amancio Hasty cc: multimedia@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nerd Talk In-Reply-To: <199606141818.NAA00368@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk All I can say is, "Big whoop". Doesn't Gateway 2000 already sell a PC with a big TV instead of a monitor? Sounds like if you do anything more intensive than DOOM (or 640x480 Windows) would be an eyesore! Personally, give me two weeks to collect my next paycheck, and I am buying a BeBox. There's your advanced multimedia computer (well, except for the software, any of you want to help port some :-) :-) ---Jake On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Is kind of nice that we are not that far behind 8) > > On Jun 14, 12:45pm, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Subject: Cause is Friday... > > > > > > I must warn you is X Files Nite!. Coming to think about it are you > > going to be around tonite? > > > > Boy, I was out this morning... > > > > > > Sony is going to announce on monday a new PC !!! > > You can watch tv (ooh), play CDs, and place phone calls! > > you could have announced rah and beat them > by a year ! > > > > Wow they are really going to be advanced PCs.... > > > > Love You, > > Owwwl > >-- End of excerpt from Amancio Hasty > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 14 21:14:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA22359 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22351; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00403; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606150413.VAA00403@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jake Hamby cc: multimedia@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nerd Talk In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:59:15 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:13:42 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, For starters we don't know yet what are going to be the full specifications for the new Sony PC. So lets pick that one up after monday when Sony announces their product and please don't forget that they have their PlayStation division to tap from for technology. So lets deal with BeBox, whats so great about it in terms of multimedia? Also if you already own a PC , I don't see any reason why you can outfit your PC with the appropiate gear. S3 Virge (3d engine) , GUS PnP, matrox meteor or suitable vga plus video capture board-- I think Matrox has a decent combo vga + video capture. Tapi devices are starting to rolling so if you shop around you can probably find a decent Tapi board. My point is that you can get a fairly decent multimedia PC. JKH just posted that Intel is selling P200 with their Aurora motherboard for about $1300 . Now I love to see the price projection for a dual P200 + motherboard by next christmas 8) Regards, Amancio >From The Desk Of Jake Hamby : > All I can say is, "Big whoop". Doesn't Gateway 2000 already sell a PC > with a big TV instead of a monitor? Sounds like if you do anything more > intensive than DOOM (or 640x480 Windows) would be an eyesore! > Personally, give me two weeks to collect my next paycheck, and I am > buying a BeBox. There's your advanced multimedia computer (well, except > for the software, any of you want to help port some :-) :-) > > ---Jake > > On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Is kind of nice that we are not that far behind 8) > > > > On Jun 14, 12:45pm, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Subject: Cause is Friday... > > > > > > > > > I must warn you is X Files Nite!. Coming to think about it are you > > > going to be around tonite? > > > > > > Boy, I was out this morning... > > > > > > > > > Sony is going to announce on monday a new PC !!! > > > You can watch tv (ooh), play CDs, and place phone calls! > > > > you could have announced rah and beat them > > by a year ! > > > > > > Wow they are really going to be advanced PCs.... > > > > > > Love You, > > > Owwwl > > >-- End of excerpt from Amancio Hasty > > From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 15 08:59:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA01375 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 08:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01368 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 08:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA04359 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:59:34 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: 15 Jun 1996 15:59:34 GMT From: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <4puml6$3f5$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199606031449.PAA02874@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: Indentation styles Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199606031724.TAA19354@uriah.heep.sax.de>, j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) writes: > As Paul Richards wrote: > >> J> The last set of cosmetical ``fixes'' of this type was the Great >> J> ``Remove trailing whitespace'' saga, and it has been considered a >> J> big mistake afterwards. It breaks all third-party software (and >> J> remember, many things of us _are_ third-party, since they've got >> J> bsd_44_lite vendor-branch tags). >> >> Wasn't this because they weren't on a separate vendor branch? If they >> had been the new release would have patched cleanly against the vendor >> branch and then merged into the main branch without any problems. > > Well, they are no ``outside source'' patches, but internally > maintained. Thus, they don't really belong into a vendor branch. > > Anyway, CVS is a nice tool, but everything with vendor-branching seems > to be messy. Ask Peter Wemm for more detailed stories... The outcome > of the Greate Whitespace Saga was ``Never again''. It was a rather > useless operation that costed many hours of conflict resolution later. Heh, more like "hundreds of hours" so far, and still counting. I bet poor Jeffrey Hsu is silently cursing it still, since he's working on the kernel source as a whole with the Lite-2 merge he's working on. The basic problem is that cvs (and rcs) is just plain dumb, and cannot tell the difference between "just whitespace conflicts" and "real conflicts". When it comes to bigger things like taylor-uucp, bind, xntpd, doing a 3-way merge of the new version is rather complicated for no real benefit. Indeed, on quite a few occasions, we've reverted and put *back* the whitespace so that we can get cleaner diffs relative to the vendor version.... Never again.... (same goes for indent... Only indent only home-grown stuff that "belongs" to you or suffer the wrath of the other developers... Cosmetic changes for nothing more than personal preference is highly frowned apon as it can destroy parallel work others may have that has not been committed yet.) Cheers, -Peter > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 15 09:08:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01802 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01797 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA04499 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 16 Jun 1996 00:08:42 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: 15 Jun 1996 16:08:41 GMT From: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <4pun69$3f5$2@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: Subject: Re: editors Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199606060553.XAA16291@xmission.xmission.com>, softweyr@xmission.com (Barnacle Wes) writes: > jfieber@indiana.edu said: >> > 2) Should be comprehensive, everything from adding users, setting up the >> > network (including Web server, NFS, etc), tape backups, printing services, >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> I was just thinking about this. This is a notable omission from >> the current install. If FreeBSD came with a very basic ascii to >> postscript filter, we could get basic text printing for most >> peaple with locally attached printers without too much fuss. > > It's in there. It's called apsfilter, and it's in either ports or > packages. All you really need to know is what language your printer > speaks. (Mine, and Epson Stylus, is ESC/P2, just like it says on the > printer.) apsfilter is really cool.. If you have a truely sick mind, you can hook it up to samba, and dump the gs output over the network to a windoze box.. And, if you really want to get perverse, you can print postscript stuff on windoze boxes by having the windoze machine print to a remote postscript "printer" (actually samba feeding into apsfilter), and it then gets shipped back after being converted to graphics.... The only catch is to find a good "laser printer" driver that matches ghostscript's input, and you need to find some quality type-1 fonts.. -Peter (who can't believe he's admitting to this in public.. :-) > -- > Wes Peters | Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late > Softweyr | The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder > Consulting | I'm an over forty victim of fate... > softweyr@xmission.com | Jimmy Buffett