From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Oct 17 15:22:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA04238 for fs-outgoing; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA04176; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.83.63.13] (apfel.zit.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.13]) by zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08136; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:20:38 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: michael@mail.zit.th-darmstadt.de Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:20:04 +0200 To: fs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org From: Michael Beckmann Subject: ccd setup for striping Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have made a kernel with ccd support on two of my 2.1.5 systems, and made the ccd devices ccd0 through ccd4 . I would like to concatenate and stripe the disks which hold the newsspool on these servers. I have 4 drives with 2 GB each, and they currently have filesystems on them like /dev/sd1s1e /dev/sd2s1e /dev/sd3s1e /dev/sd4s1e what must I do in order to prepare them for use with ccd ? The manpage speaks about devices named sd2e, sd3e, sd4e, which confuse me a bit. Do I need special disklabels ? Can I use the disks as they are ? I currently use the disks in their entirety for only one filesystem, no DOS partitions on them. Another question I have is, can I use an odd number of disks for striping ? Is it advisable to use ccd if I want to concatenate (stripe) 3, 5 or 6 disks ? Cheers, Michael From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Oct 17 16:15:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA08366 for fs-outgoing; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brimstone.gage.com (brimstone.gage.com [205.217.2.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA08359; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by brimstone.gage.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09798; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:14:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from octopus.gage.com(158.60.57.50) by brimstone.gage.com via smap (V2.0beta) id xma009796; Thu, 17 Oct 96 18:14:33 -0500 Received: from squid.gage.com (squid [158.60.57.101]) by octopus.gage.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07521; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:08:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from insomnia by squid.gage.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0S) id AA27377; Thu, 17 Oct 96 18:15:19 -0500 Message-Id: <9610172315.AA27377@squid.gage.com> Received: by insomnia.gage.com (NX5.67g/NX3.0X) id AA01204; Thu, 17 Oct 96 18:15:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.0 v146.2) Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.146.2) From: Ben Black Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 18:15:21 -0500 To: Michael Beckmann Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping Cc: fs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org References: Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk fyi, software RAID inevitably slows down your newsserver vs. simply using multiple disks with different partitions. b3n From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Oct 17 17:33:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA12599 for fs-outgoing; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12594; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from glacier.cold.org (glacier.cold.org [206.81.134.54]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA28956 ; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from glacier.cold.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by glacier.cold.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04608; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199610180032.SAA04608@glacier.cold.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Ben Black cc: Michael Beckmann , fs@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:15:21 CDT." <9610172315.AA27377@squid.gage.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:32:30 -0600 From: Brandon Gillespie Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > fyi, software RAID inevitably slows down your newsserver vs. simply using > multiple disks with different partitions. They really are not relative, the idea behind doing a RAID drive is to get stability from redundancy (not more disk space)--if one drive cooks you still have 5 (or however many) other drives still functional. Using multiple disks with different partitions would give you more disk space, but would not give you any more stability. -B From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 05:22:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA18810 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 05:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.id.net (mail.id.net [199.125.1.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA18805; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 05:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.id.net (rls@server.id.net [199.125.1.10]) by mail.id.net (8.7.5/ID-Net) with ESMTP id IAA04218; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rls@localhost) by server.id.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA05284; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:22:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Shady Message-Id: <199610181222.IAA05284@server.id.net> Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-Reply-To: <199610180032.SAA04608@glacier.cold.org> from Brandon Gillespie at "Oct 17, 96 06:32:30 pm" To: brandon@glacier.cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Cc: black@gage.com, petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, fs@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > fyi, software RAID inevitably slows down your newsserver vs. simply using > > multiple disks with different partitions. > > They really are not relative, the idea behind doing a RAID drive is to get > stability from redundancy (not more disk space)--if one drive cooks you > still have 5 (or however many) other drives still functional. Using > multiple disks with different partitions would give you more disk space, > but would not give you any more stability. Or flexibility for the matter... Say you partition 2GB for / and 4GB for /alt... On day one, you receive 1GB in / and 3 GB in /alt, in day 2 you receive 3 GB in / and 2 GB in /alt, you screwed.. Obviously this is not a 'realistic' example, but the point it makes is very realistic. It's much easier to accomadate the data when it all sits on 'one' drive... -- Rob === _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ Innovative Data Services Serving South-Eastern Michigan Internet Service Provider / Hardware Sales / Consulting Services Voice: (810)855-0404 / Fax: (810)855-3268 / Web: http://www.id.net From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 06:45:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA22809 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brimstone.gage.com (brimstone.gage.com [205.217.2.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA22801; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by brimstone.gage.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA11577; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:44:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from octopus.gage.com(158.60.57.50) by brimstone.gage.com via smap (V2.0beta) id xma011575; Fri, 18 Oct 96 08:44:15 -0500 Received: from squid.gage.com (squid [158.60.57.101]) by octopus.gage.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA08237; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:38:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from insomnia by squid.gage.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0S) id AA28374; Fri, 18 Oct 96 08:45:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9610181345.AA28374@squid.gage.com> Received: by insomnia.gage.com (NX5.67g/NX3.0X) id AA01413; Fri, 18 Oct 96 08:45:09 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.0 v146.2) In-Reply-To: <199610180032.SAA04608@glacier.cold.org> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.146.2) From: Ben Black Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 08:45:08 -0500 To: Brandon Gillespie Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping Cc: Michael Beckmann , fs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org References: <199610180032.SAA04608@glacier.cold.org> Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >They really are not relative, the idea behind doing a RAID drive is to get >stability from redundancy (not more disk space)--if one drive cooks you >still have 5 (or however many) other drives still functional. Using >multiple disks with different partitions would give you more disk space, >but would not give you any more stability. i'll assume by stability you mean fault-tolerance. honestly, this is a news server we are talking about...is the news *that* important? i promise you using software RAID will *kill* the server performance. also, the idea behind RAID is to use multiple disks to various ends: some RAID levels do *not* give you data redundancy (striping without parity is very fast, but not fault-tolerant, for instance), some make poor use of disk space to avoid losing performance doing parity calculations (mirroring)...you get the idea. b3n From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 07:11:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA24537 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA24517; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca11-27.ix.netcom.com [199.35.209.187]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA04272; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:10:50 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.6/8.6.9) id HAA13140; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610181410.HAA13140@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de CC: fs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Michael Beckmann on Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:20:04 +0200) Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * I have made a kernel with ccd support on two of my 2.1.5 systems, and made * the ccd devices ccd0 through ccd4 . I would like to concatenate and stripe * the disks which hold the newsspool on these servers. I have 4 drives with 2 * GB each, and they currently have filesystems on them like * * /dev/sd1s1e * /dev/sd2s1e * /dev/sd3s1e * /dev/sd4s1e * * what must I do in order to prepare them for use with ccd ? The manpage * speaks about devices named sd2e, sd3e, sd4e, which confuse me a bit. Do I sd2e is an alias for sd2s1e (more precisely, sd2sNe where N is the slice number of the first FreeBSD slice on that disk), etc. So either is fine. * need special disklabels ? Can I use the disks as they are ? I currently use * the disks in their entirety for only one filesystem, no DOS partitions on * them. That's ok. Just make sure you have "4.2BSD" in the "type" field on the disklabel. You can put ccd0 65536 ccd0 /dev/sd1e /dev/sd2e /dev/sd3e /dev/sd4e ^^^^^ this is the "interleave size", Rod Grimes recommends you make this at least 65536 for news spools in your /etc/ccd.conf, type "ccdconfig -Cv" (this is done automatically next time you reboot), "newfs /dev/ccd0c", then mount it anywhere you want. * Another question I have is, can I use an odd number of disks for striping ? * Is it advisable to use ccd if I want to concatenate (stripe) 3, 5 or 6 disks ? No, as long as you don't turn on mirroring as well (in which case you obviously need even number of disks). Satoshi From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 07:16:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA25126 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (root@zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA25103; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (petzi@localhost) by zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA16093; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:15:57 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:15:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michael Beckmann To: Ben Black cc: fs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-Reply-To: <9610181345.AA28374@squid.gage.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is an interesting discussion, but my decision has been made: I will use the ccd for striping, and I have been told that it works well in a newsserver. Could anyone answer my question about the disklabels please ? I cannot experiment with that, I must setup the ccd, make a filesystem and be up and running again within, say, an hour. Cheers, Michael From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 07:29:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA26131 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA26091; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca11-27.ix.netcom.com [199.35.209.187]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA26430; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:23:35 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.6/8.6.9) id HAA18878; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610181423.HAA18878@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: black@gage.com CC: brandon@glacier.cold.org, petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, fs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <9610181345.AA28374@squid.gage.com> (message from Ben Black on Fri, 18 Oct 96 08:45:08 -0500) Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * also, the idea behind RAID is to use multiple disks to various ends: some * RAID levels do *not* give you data redundancy (striping without parity is People, let's not talk about the stuff we don't have, this is -questions! ;) FreeBSD's ccd only supports striping and mirroring (RAID0 and RAID1 if you want), the latter clearly not suitable for news servers. There really isn't any point in confusing the original poster even more! Satoshi From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 07:46:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA27509 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA27486; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA26151; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199610181446.HAA26151@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-Reply-To: <199610181410.HAA13140@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from Satoshi Asami at "Oct 18, 96 07:10:44 am" To: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, fs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You can put > > ccd0 65536 ccd0 /dev/sd1e /dev/sd2e /dev/sd3e /dev/sd4e > ^^^^^ > this is the "interleave size", Rod Grimes recommends you make this > at least 65536 for news spools Rod Grimes, and Joe Greco, recommend that you make this at least the size of 1 Cylinder Group, which when using default newfs parameters is 65536, if you alter newfs parameters you may need to adjust this. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 07:50:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA27755 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (root@zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA27732; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (petzi@localhost) by zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA16507; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:50:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:50:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michael Beckmann To: Satoshi Asami cc: fs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-Reply-To: <199610181410.HAA13140@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * what must I do in order to prepare them for use with ccd ? The manpage > * speaks about devices named sd2e, sd3e, sd4e, which confuse me a bit. Do I > > sd2e is an alias for sd2s1e (more precisely, sd2sNe where N is the > slice number of the first FreeBSD slice on that disk), etc. So either > is fine. That's easier than I anticipated. I didn't know about the aliases. Thanks for your good explanation. Joe Greco also recommended 65536 for the interleave. My first guess would have been 4096, because most news articles are smaller than that, but since so many people recommend 65536, I will make it 65536 . Cheers, Michael From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 08:36:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA01196 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (pm3-18.wmbg.widomaker.com [206.161.154.83]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01147; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (localhost.hq.ferg.com [127.0.0.1]) by toth.hq.ferg.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18972; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:30:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Branson Matheson X-Sender: branson@toth.hq.ferg.com To: Michael Beckmann cc: Ben Black , fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Michael Beckmann wrote: > This is an interesting discussion, but my decision has been made: I will > use the ccd for striping, and I have been told that it works well in a > newsserver. > Could anyone answer my question about the disklabels please ? I cannot > experiment with that, I must setup the ccd, make a filesystem and be up > and running again within, say, an hour. The only thing I would say is to check: http://stampede.cs.berkeley.edu/ccd/README-s.html and HEED the warning about creating a partition that starts at the beginning of a slice.. this messed me up quite a bit. a block or two is not that much to part with considering the gain. - branson ============================================================================= Branson Matheson | Ferguson Enterprises | If Pete and Repeat were System Administrator | W: (804) 874-7795 | sittin on a fence and Pete Unix, Perl, WWW | branson@widomaker.com | fell off, who is left? From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 10:04:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA07888 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07869; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca11-27.ix.netcom.com [199.35.209.187]) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA03315; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:58:13 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.6/8.6.9) id JAA21453; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610181658.JAA21453@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: branson@widomaker.com CC: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, black@gage.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Branson Matheson on Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:30:01 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * The only thing I would say is to check: * * http://stampede.cs.berkeley.edu/ccd/README-s.html * * and HEED the warning about creating a partition that starts at the * beginning of a slice.. this messed me up quite a bit. a block or two * is not that much to part with considering the gain. Actually, I believe this is fixed now, since the driver ignores the first 16 sectors of the partitions by default. I should go fix the README. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 10:31:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA09960 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (pm3-18.wmbg.widomaker.com [206.161.154.83]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09872; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (localhost.hq.ferg.com [127.0.0.1]) by toth.hq.ferg.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19494; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:26:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Branson Matheson X-Sender: branson@toth.hq.ferg.com To: Satoshi Asami cc: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, black@gage.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-Reply-To: <199610181658.JAA21453@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Satoshi Asami wrote: > * The only thing I would say is to check: > * > * http://stampede.cs.berkeley.edu/ccd/README-s.html > * > * and HEED the warning about creating a partition that starts at the > * beginning of a slice.. this messed me up quite a bit. a block or two > * is not that much to part with considering the gain. > > Actually, I believe this is fixed now, since the driver ignores the > first 16 sectors of the partitions by default. I should go fix the > README. Hmm.. I am running 2.1.5-RELEASE here and it was not fixed.. making that change allowed me to ccdconfig where before I could not. -branson ============================================================================= Branson Matheson | Ferguson Enterprises | If Pete and Repeat were System Administrator | W: (804) 874-7795 | sittin on a fence and Pete Unix, Perl, WWW | branson@widomaker.com | fell off, who is left? From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 10:51:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA11608 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11590; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca11-27.ix.netcom.com [199.35.209.187]) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA00161; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:48:53 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.6/8.6.9) id KAA21608; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610181748.KAA21608@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: branson@widomaker.com CC: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, black@gage.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Branson Matheson on Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:26:19 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Hmm.. I am running 2.1.5-RELEASE here and it was not fixed.. making * that change allowed me to ccdconfig where before I could not. Really? This is what I get on a -current box (I don't have a 2.1.5R machine handy): === ## disklabel sd1 | egrep '(size|f:)' # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] f: 500500 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 31*) ## disklabel sd2 | egrep '(size|f:)' # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] f: 500500 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 31*) ## ccdconfig -c ccd0 128 0 /dev/sd1f /dev/sd2f ## ccdconfig -g ccd0 128 0 /dev/sd1f /dev/sd2f ## disklabel ccd0 | egrep '(size|c:)' # /dev/rccd0c: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] c: 1000960 0 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 488*) ## newfs /dev/ccd0c newfs: /dev/ccd0c: not a character-special device Warning: 2560 sector(s) in last cylinder unallocated /dev/ccd0c: 1000960 sectors in 245 cylinders of 1 tracks, 4096 sectors 488.8MB in 16 cyl groups (16 c/g, 32.00MB/g, 7680 i/g) super-block backups (for fsck -b #) at: 32, 65568, 131104, 196640, 262176, 327712, 393248, 458784, 524320, 589856, 655392, 720928, 786464, 852000, 917536, 983072, ## (and so on) === And from the cvs log of /sys/dev/ccd/ccd.c: === revision 1.10.2.2 date: 1996/05/13 08:39:02; author: asami; state: Exp; lines: +10 -3 Merge from HEAD: Leave 16 lines in front of each component partition. It's now safe to use sd87a or sd237e even if they start at the beginning of the slice. You can also use sd85c if you prefer, although you need to change the type field in the disklabel to "4.2BSD". === This is two months before the 2.1.5, so this should be in there too. What did ccdconfig say? Satoshi From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 11:31:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA14289 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14257; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca11-27.ix.netcom.com [199.35.209.187]) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA09038; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:30:17 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA21705; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610181830.LAA21705@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: branson@widomaker.com CC: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, black@gage.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Branson Matheson on Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:26:19 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Hmm.. I am running 2.1.5-RELEASE here and it was not fixed.. making * that change allowed me to ccdconfig where before I could not. I think I know what happened. You got this from ccdconfig, right? ccdconfig: ioctl (CCDIOCSET): /dev/ccd0c: Inappropriate file type or format This is because your sd?c is not of type "4.2BSD". Edit the disklabel for all the disks (the easiest way is to edit one with "disklabel -e", save the output and use "disklabel -Rr" to write it to others), and it should work without any offset. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 11:41:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15252 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (pm3-18.wmbg.widomaker.com [206.161.154.83]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15182; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (localhost.hq.ferg.com [127.0.0.1]) by toth.hq.ferg.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19811; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:40:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Branson Matheson X-Sender: branson@toth.hq.ferg.com To: Satoshi Asami cc: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, black@gage.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-Reply-To: <199610181830.LAA21705@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Satoshi Asami wrote: > * Hmm.. I am running 2.1.5-RELEASE here and it was not fixed.. making > * that change allowed me to ccdconfig where before I could not. > > I think I know what happened. You got this from ccdconfig, right? > > ccdconfig: ioctl (CCDIOCSET): /dev/ccd0c: Inappropriate file type or format > > This is because your sd?c is not of type "4.2BSD". Edit the disklabel > for all the disks (the easiest way is to edit one with "disklabel -e", > save the output and use "disklabel -Rr" to write it to others), and it > should work without any offset. That is it exactly! this needs to be in the FAQ.. you want to write it or shall I? That would have saved me lots of problems. - branson ============================================================================= Branson Matheson | Ferguson Enterprises | If Pete and Repeat were System Administrator | W: (804) 874-7795 | sittin on a fence and Pete Unix, Perl, WWW | branson@widomaker.com | fell off, who is left? From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 12:05:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16699 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solar.os.com (craigs@solar.os.com [199.232.136.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA16681; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from craigs@localhost) by solar.os.com (8.7/8.7.0) id PAA22962; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:35:14 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:35:14 -0400 From: Craig Shrimpton Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping To: Satoshi Asami cc: branson@widomaker.com, petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, black@gage.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199610181830.LAA21705@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Satoshi Asami wrote: > > I think I know what happened. You got this from ccdconfig, right? > > ccdconfig: ioctl (CCDIOCSET): /dev/ccd0c: Inappropriate file type or format > I have ccd installed but I've never tested it out. If I ccdconfig some drives as a test will that alter the filesystem that is already on the disk? That is, of course, assuming that I don't newfs the ccd0! I.E. is simply ccdconfiging drives a dangerous operation? Craig +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+ | Craig Shrimpton | e-mail: craigs@os.com | | Orbit Systems | information: info@os.com | | Worcester, MA 508.753.8776 | http://www.os.com/ | +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 12:40:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA18547 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu (root@sunrise.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA18542; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA14214; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610181935.MAA14214@sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu> To: craigs@os.com CC: branson@widomaker.com, petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, black@gage.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Craig Shrimpton on Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:35:14 -0400) Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * I have ccd installed but I've never tested it out. If I ccdconfig some * drives as a test will that alter the filesystem that is already on the * disk? * * That is, of course, assuming that I don't newfs the ccd0! I.E. is simply * ccdconfiging drives a dangerous operation? I don't think so. But I don't think it's worth the risk, you're not going to learn much by only running ccdconfig! Satoshi From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 13:03:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA20281 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu (root@sunrise.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA20275; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA14240; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610181958.MAA14240@sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu> To: branson@widomaker.com CC: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de, black@gage.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Branson Matheson on Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:40:27 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * That is it exactly! this needs to be in the FAQ.. you want to write * it or shall I? That would have saved me lots of problems. Actually it is. :) http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ.html I'm planning to discontinue the home page now that ccd is in the release, most of the stuff in there is how to install etc. Maybe I should add another item to the FAQ about "look, I know squat about disks -- just tell me EXACTLY how to set up this bloody thing!!!" ? Satoshi From owner-freebsd-fs Fri Oct 18 18:45:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09213 for fs-outgoing; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09189 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id UAA14489; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:45:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:45:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Ben Black cc: fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping In-Reply-To: <9610181345.AA28374@squid.gage.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Ben Black wrote: > i'll assume by stability you mean fault-tolerance. honestly, this is a news > server we are talking about...is the news *that* important? i promise you > using software RAID will *kill* the server performance. When you have 150,000 customers news is a high availability application. (I don't have this problem yet, but know people who do.) I'd like to see your hard numbers as to the 'software RAID killing performance'. Its had the opposite effect here. Of course, we're not running RAID5, just interleaving. > also, the idea behind RAID is to use multiple disks to various ends: some > RAID levels do *not* give you data redundancy (striping without parity is > very fast, but not fault-tolerant, for instance), some make poor use of disk > space to avoid losing performance doing parity calculations (mirroring)...you > get the idea. I'm sorry, but a high end news server is seek bound. Run some tests on a test platform before you make statements about performance. Have a good one. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Oct 19 12:42:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA29581 for fs-outgoing; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brimstone.gage.com (brimstone.gage.com [205.217.2.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA29576 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by brimstone.gage.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18058; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 14:41:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from octopus.gage.com(158.60.57.50) by brimstone.gage.com via smap (V2.0beta) id xma018056; Sat, 19 Oct 96 14:41:28 -0500 Received: from squid.gage.com (squid [158.60.57.101]) by octopus.gage.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10491; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 14:35:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from insomnia by squid.gage.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0S) id AA01614; Sat, 19 Oct 96 14:42:14 -0500 Message-Id: <9610191942.AA01614@squid.gage.com> Received: by insomnia.gage.com (NX5.67g/NX3.0X) id AA02041; Sat, 19 Oct 96 14:42:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.0 v146.2) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=NeXT-Mail-466589079-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.146.2) From: Ben Black Date: Sat, 19 Oct 96 14:42:29 -0500 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Subject: Re: ccd setup for striping Cc: fs@freebsd.org References: Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --NeXT-Mail-466589079-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >When you have 150,000 customers news is a high availability application. >(I don't have this problem yet, but know people who do.) when you have 150k customers you have more than one news server. >I'd like to see your hard numbers as to the 'software RAID killing >performance'. Its had the opposite effect here. Of course, we're not >running RAID5, just interleaving. "just interleaving" doesn't give you any redundancy, now does it? RAID 5 is all about parity calculations. we used sun online disk suite to do a software RAID on one of several news servers. performance was far better simply distributing the news groups across drives intelligently. >I'm sorry, but a high end news server is seek bound. > >Run some tests on a test platform before you make statements about >performance. yes, assuming you aren't recalculating parity every time to read or write data, it is seek bound. to eliminate the massive seek bottleneck, get rid of the filesystem. that's what we did. as i've said before, 6 million articles per day on a P5-120 with 64MB RAM. then we ran out of articles. load average under 2.0. i know about new server performance. any questions? b3n --NeXT-Mail-466589079-1 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >When you have 150,000 customers news is a high availability application. >(I don't have this problem yet, but know people who do.) when you have 150k customers you have more than one news server. >I'd like to see your hard numbers as to the 'software RAID killing >performance'. Its had the opposite effect here. Of course, we're not >running RAID5, just interleaving. "just interleaving" doesn't give you any redundancy, now does it? RAID 5 is all about parity calculations. we used sun online disk suite to do a software RAID on one of several news servers. performance was far better simply distributing the news groups across drives intelligently. >I'm sorry, but a high end news server is seek bound. > >Run some tests on a test platform before you make statements about >performance. yes, assuming you aren't recalculating parity every time to read or write data, it is seek bound. to eliminate the massive seek bottleneck, get rid of the filesystem. that's what we did. as i've said before, 6 million articles per day on a P5-120 with 64MB RAM. then we ran out of articles. load average under 2.0. i know about new server performance. any questions? b3n --NeXT-Mail-466589079-1--