From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 00:34:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA02914 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 00:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from burka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@burka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA02847 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 00:33:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by burka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with ESMTP id KAA28326 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 10:33:28 +0200 Received: from cscdua.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id KAA06932 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 10:21:47 +0200 Received: by cscd.lviv.ua (uumail v1.5/ache) with UUCP id AA08974; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:43:04 +0200 Received: (from root@localhost) by gate.host.lviv.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA09665 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 08:54:35 +0200 From: Charlie Root Message-Id: <199603100654.IAA09665@gate.host.lviv.ua> Subject: RE: double messages To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 08:54:35 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP3 *ALPHA* p2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Forwarded message: > From cscdua!carrier!freefall.freebsd.org!owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 06:48:05 1996 > Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 08:38:01 +0800 (HKT) > From: John Beukema > To: FreeBSD hackers > > > I am still receiving double messages from this list. I notice that one > copy comes by way of kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su. Strange! May be not, I have some problem, but my mail do not transport from kiae. > jbeukema > > Alex. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 03:17:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA16905 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 03:17:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA16900 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 03:17:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id DAA19851 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 03:17:50 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA17270; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 11:46:55 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA07205; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 11:46:54 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id LAA01269; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 11:45:23 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603101045.LAA01269@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Booting. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 11:45:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: adf@fl.net.au (Andrew Foster) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960310232002.009e8f9c@mail.fl.net.au> from "Andrew Foster" at Mar 10, 96 01:20:02 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrew Foster wrote: I've just added an IDE drive to a previously all SCSI system, and I need to > have it boot to sd0a every time. Typing : > > hd(1,a)/kernel > > At the boot prompt works, but this isn't automated. Could someone tell me > how to change this to become the default. Have a look at Bruce Evans' message with the subject: booting from sd5 when wd3 is also installed ...as posted half an hour before your mail (to freebsd-current though). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 03:29:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA18048 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 03:29:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA18040 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 03:29:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09949 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 13:29:44 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199603101129.NAA09949@grumble.grondar.za> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SUP and statistics. How? Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 13:29:43 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Has anyone out there got a clever way to measure SUP usage? In running a site I like to know how much it is being used (helps convince people sometimes :-)), and the various ftpd's do a good job. AFAIK, there is no such loggin info from supfilesrv(8). Anyone know any tricks? Anyone working on anything? Otherwise I may just hack the source... M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 07:35:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA03732 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 07:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from studenti.ing.unipi.it ([131.114.83.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA03707 Sun, 10 Mar 1996 07:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gabriele@localhost) by studenti.ing.unipi.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA18890; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:33:24 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:33:24 +0100 (MET) From: Gabriele Cecchetti To: smp@clem.systemsix.com cc: questions@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, clary@s4.elec.uq.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: DISKLESS.HOWTO Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm setting up a diskless workstation for clients running X with netscape; server is a Pentium 100 with 16Mb RAM and several Gb of Disk and clients are Pentium 100 with 8 Mb RAM or 486DX4-100. My clients boot well but when I try to start X or with some other (more trivial) operation the system reboot. Probably my problems come from 'swap'. I think that at this time FreeBSD documentation is quite poor about this (i think) important operation mode, and I'm serching more estensive documentation about DISKELESS.HOWTO. Anyway, my /etc/bootptab file is: .clients:\ :ht=ethernet:sm=255.255.255.0:\ :hn:hd=/:bf=/kernel:\ :sa=10.1.1.1:sw=10.1.1.1:ds=10.1.1.1:gw=10.1.1.1:\ :dn=bibliolan:lp=10.1.1.1: WAISBiblio2:tc=.clients:ha=0000E8C84C4E:ip=10.1.1.22: ... my /tftpboot/cfg.10.1.1.22 file is: rootfs 10.1.1.1:/usr/diskless_root swapfs 10.1.1.1:/usr/swapfs swapsize 32768 kernel /kernel hostname WAISBiblio2.bibliolan I've added these lines to exports file: /usr/diskless_root /usr/swapfs -maproot=root:wheel 10.1.1.22 /usr -ro -network 10.1.1 -mask 255.255.255.0 -maproot=0:0 /usr/local -ro -network 10.1.1 -mask 255.255.255.0 -maproot=0:0 I' modified a /usr/diskless/etc/rc in this way DISKLESS=NO swapon -a if [ $1x = autobootx ] ... fi ... if [ "x`hostname`" = "x" ]; then mount -a -t nonfs else DISKLESS=YES mount -a -t nomfs vnconfig -ev /dev/vn0c /swapfs/swap.10.1.1.22 swap mount -a -t mfs (cd / ; tar xfz files.tgz ) # In this way I can use multiple clients # sharing / and /usr (files.tgz # contains /dev /root and /var files ...) fi ... where /usr/disk_less/etc/fstab is: 10.1.1.1:/usr/diskless_root / nfs rw 0 0 10.1.1.1:/usr /usr nfs ro 1 1 10.1.1.1:/usr/local /usr/local nfs ro 1 1 10.1.1.1:/usr/swapfs /swapfs nfs rw 0 0 /dev/null /var mfs rw,-T=myformat 0 0 and myformat is defined in disktab as: myformat:\ :dt=ST506:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#256:nc#1:\ :pa#12288:oa#12288:ta=4.2BSD:ba=4096:sa=512: \ :pb#12888:ob#0:tb=swap: \ :pc#24576:oc#0: Kernel settings for Diskless clients are: options DISKLESS config kernel root on wd0 (or it would be more correct with: config kernel root on wd0 swap on wd0 and vn0 dumps on wd0 ??? ) In this way seems to be ok... but it does not work well. In fact swapinfo say: Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/?? 32768 2260 30444 7% Interleaved /dev/vn0c 96 32 0 100% Interleaved Total 32736 2292 30444 7% I've tryed to create an swap file of rigth size but that make system unstable (It reboot almost immediately due page fault). So, in which way I've to initialise the swap file ? Why /dev/?? (setup'ed by netboot or nb8390 ) and /dev/vn0c (setup'ed by vnconfig) are not the same ? Any suggestion and ideas or a full documentation (DISKLESS.HOWTO) will be appreciated. Thanks in advanced Gabriele ============================================================================ Gabriele Cecchetti Off. C.I.S.I.D. email: gabriele@www.ing.unipi.it via Giunta da Pisano http://www.ing.unipi.it/~gabriele +39-50-553594 Abitazione: e Centro Bibliotecario Via Lenin 127 Facolta` di Ingegneria 56010 Pappiana, PISA (Italy) Via Diotisalvi 2 Tel: +39-50-862316 +39-50-553604 ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 08:44:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA07158 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 08:44:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA07153 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 08:44:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr14.etinc.com (dialup-usr14.etinc.com [204.141.95.130]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11085; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 11:47:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 11:47:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199603101647.LAA11085@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: davidg@Root.COM From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: slow network response Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>Thanks Rodney, but go luck. Traceroute tell me the routes looks good, >>but the average numbers on loopback are still very high. I re-examined my >>routing tables and there doesn't seem to be anything that stands out. >>Even checked my cables. >> >>Anyknown problems with a 3Com-509B-combo on thinnet(BNC). I don't recall >>any myself. >> >>Again, any help folks is appreciated. Thanks! > > What do you have in /etc/hosts, and what does "localhost" resolve to? > >-DG > >David Greenman >Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > I had a MB that just couldn't run a 3COM-509. I got huge delays, and putting the board in another box indicated that there was nothing wrong with the card. I never did figure out what it was (since i don't normally use them), although it was a PCI '486 and I suspect it had something to do with the implementation of the ISA bridge..... Plugged in an NE2000 and it worked fine. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 09:16:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA08748 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:16:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from snake.hut.fi (root@snake.hut.fi [193.167.6.99]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08741 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.hut.fi (alpha.hut.fi [130.233.224.50]) by snake.hut.fi (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA24304; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 19:16:13 +0200 (EET) Received: (vode@localhost) by alpha.hut.fi (8.6.11/8.6.7) id TAA05736; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 19:16:12 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 19:16:12 +0200 Message-Id: <199603101716.TAA05736@alpha.hut.fi> From: Kai Vorma To: Mark Murray cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Mark Murray's message of 10 Mar 1996 13:40:12 +0200 Subject: Re: SUP and statistics. How? Reply-to: Kai.Vorma@hut.fi References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In running a site I like to know how much it is being used (helps convince people sometimes :-)), and the various ftpd's do a good job. AFAIK, there is no such loggin info from supfilesrv(8). I added a very simple form of loggin to supfilesrv. It currently syslogs something like Mar 10 17:50:55 nic supfile[13575]: Connection from xx.xx.xx.xx Mar 10 17:51:35 nic supfile[13575]: Transferred 102781 bytes in 40 seconds (2569 bps) to xx.xx.xx.xx I can send you patches if ypu wish so. ..vode From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 09:56:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10827 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10821 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:56:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA14619; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:56:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199603101756.JAA14619@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: slow network response In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Mar 1996 11:47:27 EST." <199603101647.LAA11085@etinc.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:56:17 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>Thanks Rodney, but go luck. Traceroute tell me the routes looks good, >>>but the average numbers on loopback are still very high. I re-examined my >>>routing tables and there doesn't seem to be anything that stands out. >>>Even checked my cables. >>> >>>Anyknown problems with a 3Com-509B-combo on thinnet(BNC). I don't recall >>>any myself. >>> >>>Again, any help folks is appreciated. Thanks! >> >> What do you have in /etc/hosts, and what does "localhost" resolve to? >> >>-DG >> >>David Greenman >>Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project >> > >I had a MB that just couldn't run a 3COM-509. I got huge delays, and putting >the >board in another box indicated that there was nothing wrong with the card. I >never did figure out what it was (since i don't normally use them), although it >was a PCI '486 and I suspect it had something to do with the implementation >of the ISA bridge..... > >Plugged in an NE2000 and it worked fine. Hmmm...I think the problem is that the interrupt either isn't configured properly or the interrupt doesn't work for some reason. The 3c509 driver has a kludge in it that allows it to recover from lost interrupts at a rate of once per second. If the interrupt didn't work at all for some reason, then the card would process a small burst of packets every second - and would be very slow indeed. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 10:15:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11561 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 10:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11556 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 10:15:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr14.etinc.com (dialup-usr14.etinc.com [204.141.95.130]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA11254; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 13:18:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 13:18:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199603101818.NAA11254@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: davidg@Root.COM From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: slow network response Cc: mpatters@imssys.imssys.com, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>Thanks Rodney, but go luck. Traceroute tell me the routes looks good, >>>>but the average numbers on loopback are still very high. I re-examined my >>>>routing tables and there doesn't seem to be anything that stands out. >>>>Even checked my cables. >>>> >>>>Anyknown problems with a 3Com-509B-combo on thinnet(BNC). I don't recall >>>>any myself. >>>> >>>>Again, any help folks is appreciated. Thanks! >>> >>> What do you have in /etc/hosts, and what does "localhost" resolve to? >>> >>>-DG >>> >>>David Greenman >>>Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project >>> >> >>I had a MB that just couldn't run a 3COM-509. I got huge delays, and putting >>the >>board in another box indicated that there was nothing wrong with the card. I >>never did figure out what it was (since i don't normally use them), although it >>was a PCI '486 and I suspect it had something to do with the implementation >>of the ISA bridge..... >> >>Plugged in an NE2000 and it worked fine. > > Hmmm...I think the problem is that the interrupt either isn't configured >properly or the interrupt doesn't work for some reason. The 3c509 driver has >a kludge in it that allows it to recover from lost interrupts at a rate of >once per second. If the interrupt didn't work at all for some reason, then >the card would process a small burst of packets every second - and would be >very slow indeed. ahh....Well there is that PCI thing that. you have to tell the MB which irqs to allocate to ISA devices.......that 1 per second thing would've led me to assume that the interrupt was working. Id check it to be sure... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 12:39:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA18065 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 12:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA18043 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 12:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA16090; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 22:37:18 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199603102037.WAA16090@grumble.grondar.za> To: Kai.Vorma@hut.fi cc: Mark Murray , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP and statistics. How? Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 22:37:18 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kai Vorma wrote: > > In running a site I like to know how much it is being used (helps > convince people sometimes :-)), and the various ftpd's do a good > job. AFAIK, there is no such loggin info from supfilesrv(8). > > I added a very simple form of loggin to supfilesrv. It currently > syslogs something like > > Mar 10 17:50:55 nic supfile[13575]: Connection from xx.xx.xx.xx > Mar 10 17:51:35 nic supfile[13575]: Transferred 102781 bytes in 40 seconds (2 569 bps) to xx.xx.xx.xx > > I can send you patches if ypu wish so. Oooh! Just what I was looking for! Yes please! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 14:24:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24090 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:24:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24081 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:24:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01290 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:24:20 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: A WEBMASTER has been found! Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:24:20 -0800 Message-ID: <1288.826496660@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please join me in welcoming Jake Hamby as FreeBSD's new WEBMASTER. Jake has a lot of good ideas for the future direction of FreeBSD's web pages and, with your helpful feedback, will be implementing them over the coming months He'll also be working with me to define and improve FreeBSD's "advertising picture", helping to get the word out on our favorite operating system. Welcome, Jake! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 14:32:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24749 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:32:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24744 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA04225; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:01:22 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: dennis cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: slow network response In-Reply-To: <199603101647.LAA11085@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any chance this is the problem with the 3com and a misconfigured IRQ? I've seen it where if the kernel says irq 10, but the card is 15, it will work, just very slowly. And it's reproducible. On Sun, 10 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > >>Thanks Rodney, but go luck. Traceroute tell me the routes looks good, > >>but the average numbers on loopback are still very high. I re-examined my > >>routing tables and there doesn't seem to be anything that stands out. > >>Even checked my cables. > >> > >>Anyknown problems with a 3Com-509B-combo on thinnet(BNC). I don't recall > >>any myself. > >> > >>Again, any help folks is appreciated. Thanks! > > > > What do you have in /etc/hosts, and what does "localhost" resolve to? > > > >-DG > > > >David Greenman > >Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > > > I had a MB that just couldn't run a 3COM-509. I got huge delays, and putting > the > board in another box indicated that there was nothing wrong with the card. I > never did figure out what it was (since i don't normally use them), although it > was a PCI '486 and I suspect it had something to do with the implementation > of the ISA bridge..... > > Plugged in an NE2000 and it worked fine. > > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating > Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, > and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 14:53:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA26576 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26570 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:53:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA04819; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:55:19 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:55:19 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Idle benchmark... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I tried the stream_d benchmark on my FreeBSD 2.1-stable box. Here are the results. It might be interesting to get the results of this on a few other boxes. My test box is a P5-120, Triton chipset, dont' know the manufacturer off-hand, although I could find it out. I also included the results from a -current box, supped as of a couple days ago. (same motherboard). 2.1-stable: Function Rate (MB/s) RMS time Min time Max time Assignment: 58.5143 0.2782 0.2734 0.2891 Scaling : 58.5143 0.2821 0.2734 0.2891 Summing : 65.3617 0.3767 0.3672 0.3984 SAXPYing : 65.3617 0.3790 0.3672 0.3906 2.2-current ------------------------------------------------------------- Function Rate (MB/s) RMS time Min time Max time Assignment: 58.5143 0.2813 0.2734 0.2891 Scaling : 58.5143 0.2821 0.2734 0.2891 Summing : 57.9623 0.4235 0.4141 0.4297 SAXPYing : 56.8889 0.4281 0.4219 0.4297 Here's the URL for the benchmark: http://perelandra.cms.udel.edu/~mccalpin/hpc/stream/index.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 14:54:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA26655 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA26648 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01531 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:54:12 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Another wcarchive report.. Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 14:54:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1529.826498452@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I thought people would be amused to see the load at the >1000 user scenario: jkh@wcarchive-> ftpcount Service class mirror-ftpserv - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-freebsd - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-linux - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-demos - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-os2 - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-upl - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-test - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class local - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class remote - 2 users ( 10 maximum) Service class anonymous - 1012 users (1250 maximum) jkh@wcarchive-> top load averages: 12.18, 9.51, 7.99 14:48:20 1128 processes:9 running, 1118 sleeping, 1 zombie Cpu states: 13.5% user, 0.0% nice, 27.3% system, 19.9% interrupt, 39.4% idle Memory: 307M Active, 2356K Inact, 50M Wired, 129M Cache, 676K Free Swap: 819M Total, 804M Free, 2% Inuse PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 82 root 2 0 180K 268K sleep 300:12 2.71% 2.71% syslogd 23487 root 2 0 464K 320K sleep 0:15 1.83% 1.83% ls 22605 dave 2 0 7324K 7636K sleep 0:31 1.18% 1.18% perl 28761 jkh 85 0 1464K 1596K run 0:00 2.19% 0.65% top 28176 root 2 0 700K 460K sleep 0:00 0.54% 0.53% ftpd 28775 root 2 0 592K 448K sleep 0:00 3.83% 0.53% ls 28772 root 2 0 700K 440K sleep 0:00 2.31% 0.42% ftpd 28773 root 2 0 680K 428K sleep 0:00 2.31% 0.42% ftpd 28784 root 2 0 680K 424K sleep 0:00 8.59% 0.42% ftpd 28754 root 2 0 680K 440K sleep 0:00 1.04% 0.34% ftpd 28714 root 2 0 700K 448K sleep 0:00 0.61% 0.31% ftpd 28749 root 2 0 680K 440K sleep 0:00 0.92% 0.31% ftpd 28710 root 2 0 680K 424K sleep 0:00 0.58% 0.31% ftpd 26718 www 2 0 684K 440K sleep 0:00 0.27% 0.27% httpd 28763 root 2 0 680K 428K sleep 0:00 1.03% 0.27% ftpd Sometimes this machine just amazes me.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 16:17:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA02185 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA02178 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:17:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.4/8.6.12) id HAA17558 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 07:55:09 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 10 Mar 96 23:53:27 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au>, <199603080711.SAA26926@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk imb@scgt.oz.au (michael butler) writes: >Bruce Evans writes: >> According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D >> (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c >> now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. >Then, perhaps, the unconditional test for the string "445" needs fixing to >allow later revisions to function as designed ? As I understand it, all the 445S series is broken, and in this case the working ones are the 445C series. Since the driver checks for "445S", this should have the intended effect... (unless somebody can show me a 445S rev E :-) Cheers, -Peter > michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 16:44:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA04234 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns1.noc.best.net (root@dns1.noc.best.net [206.86.8.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA04229 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA19573; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:43:56 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA05845; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:43:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199603110043.QAA05845@geli.clusternet> X-Authentication-Warning: geli.fastnet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Rashid Karimov cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:53:28 EST." <199603071453.JAA19072@rk.ios.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 16:43:06 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, I've been off in the desert for a while, but I don't believe the situation has changed. Straight from the horse's mouth, is that no motherboard without added circuitry to enable inbound posted writes is going to see PCI I/O bus performance in excess of 5 MB/s sustained. It is alleged that the HP motherboards supplied in Vectra systems have this circuitry, but HP is only willing to commit to performance of it's on-board controllers. Perhaps reasonably, perhaps not. Best of luck! Let us know what you find. As an aside, my best guess is that all of those benchmarks on http://www.intel.com and all of the lmbench linux numbers were made with fixed, but not purchasable, motherboards. Isn't it an interesting world? Cheers, Russell > > > > > I need to buy a PC soon and was wondering about the current crop of > > > PCI chipsets . I seem to recollect some performance problems > > > with the Orion chipset. > > > > If you don't need it right away, the Triton II sounds promising. > > > > Otherwise, I'd just get an ASUS Triton MB. I would stay away > > from the Orion stuff for now simply due to cost - do you really > > want to pay $1200 for JUST the motherboard? :-) > > Jordan > > Don't even try to buy _decent PPro systems now. I have > 5 of them here ( 150-200Mhz). They are stable, fast with > arithmetics but PCI speed plainly SUCKS ! Makes them pretty > much unusable for server kind of employment. Thanks to Intel ! > I also suspect that graphics will be slow as hell too, so > no worsktation either. > > I wonder if there will be a lawsuit ... anyway what they > did is insane ! They had really fast and stable processor > and shittiest chipset and instead of making us wait for > a DECENT system, they just combined what they had at the time. > > I'm fishing around for the "Alder" SMP motherboard which runs > ftp.freebsd.org and couple of other huge archives. This > is supposedly one that does work. No luck so far :) I hope > that in the summer we'll have SMP support in FreeBSD and then > we'll fly really high :))) > > > > Rashid > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 10 17:05:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA05723 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 17:05:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA05706 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 17:05:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id RAA02046; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 17:04:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 17:03:59 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: John-Mark Gurney cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, Doug White Subject: Re: seg fault and strlen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > I'm not sure this is the best place to put it... but is it ok for strlen > to seg fault your program when you pass a null pointer to it? just > wondering... TTYL... > John-Mark It's called Null Pointer Reference. And yes it's okay =) == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 00:01:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA14471 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:01:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA14432 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:01:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA17954; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:56:26 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199603110756.IAA17954@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Another wcarchive report.. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:56:26 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1529.826498452@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 10, 96 02:53:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I thought people would be amused to see the load at the >1000 user > scenario: > ... > Service class anonymous - 1012 users (1250 maximum) > > jkh@wcarchive-> top > load averages: 12.18, 9.51, 7.99 14:48:20 > 1128 processes:9 running, 1118 sleeping, 1 zombie > Cpu states: 13.5% user, 0.0% nice, 27.3% system, 19.9% interrupt, 39.4% idle > Memory: 307M Active, 2356K Inact, 50M Wired, 129M Cache, 676K Free > Swap: 819M Total, 804M Free, 2% Inuse > > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND > 82 root 2 0 180K 268K sleep 300:12 2.71% 2.71% syslogd > 23487 root 2 0 464K 320K sleep 0:15 1.83% 1.83% ls > 22605 dave 2 0 7324K 7636K sleep 0:31 1.18% 1.18% perl > 28761 jkh 85 0 1464K 1596K run 0:00 2.19% 0.65% top > 28176 root 2 0 700K 460K sleep 0:00 0.54% 0.53% ftpd > 28775 root 2 0 592K 448K sleep 0:00 3.83% 0.53% ls > 28772 root 2 0 700K 440K sleep 0:00 2.31% 0.42% ftpd > 28773 root 2 0 680K 428K sleep 0:00 2.31% 0.42% ftpd > 28784 root 2 0 680K 424K sleep 0:00 8.59% 0.42% ftpd ... wcarchive (and similar extremely-busy systems) are undoubtably interesting patients to study. I am wondering: with such a busy system, I expect that performance is mostly limited by disk seeks. Is it possible that the relatively low load average is actually limited by the number of disks -- i.e. 1-2 processes per disk are ready, the other are just waiting for their I/O requests to complete ? This would also explain the "39.4% idle". It would be interesting to know the effective aggregate disk bandwidth (not the peak value, that's going to make us consumed with envy :) and see if that is the actual bottleneck. Also, is there some special tuning of parameters (say, reserve some memory for holding directories, modify ftpd to so some readahead depending on the actual speed of the connection, etc.) Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 00:21:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA15940 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:21:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA15918 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:21:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA16599 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:21:23 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA19376 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:21:23 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA05424 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:07:59 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603110807.JAA05424@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: A WEBMASTER has been found! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:07:58 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <1288.826496660@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 10, 96 02:24:20 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Please join me in welcoming Jake Hamby as > FreeBSD's new WEBMASTER. Applause! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 02:04:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA26604 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 02:04:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA26588 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 02:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA16588; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 02:02:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199603111002.CAA16588@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another wcarchive report.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:56:26 +0100." <199603110756.IAA17954@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 02:02:10 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >wcarchive (and similar extremely-busy systems) are undoubtably >interesting patients to study. Undoubtably...and I spend a great deal of my time doing just that. >I am wondering: with such a busy system, I expect that performance is >mostly limited by disk seeks. Is it possible that the relatively low >load average is actually limited by the number of disks -- i.e. 1-2 >processes per disk are ready, the other are just waiting for their I/O >requests to complete ? This would also explain the "39.4% idle". You might think so, but actually no, that's not the limit. I've been very careful about load balancing major parts of the archive onto seperate disks. This means that Linux is on one drive, FreeBSD on another, "doom" on another, etc. >It would be interesting to know the effective aggregate disk bandwidth >(not the peak value, that's going to make us consumed with envy :) >and see if that is the actual bottleneck. With 3 FAST SCSI controllers, the maximum would be 30MB/sec. If you figure conservatively that every disk input reads one 8K block and that each one is to a random place on the disk, then each drive is capable of only about 1MB/sec. ...we have 18 disk drives currently, so this would be a total of about 18MB/second. It turns our that the limit is the Internet backbone and the speeds of the links of the users. Lot's of archive users have only 28.8K SLIP links or "slow" T1's. The result is that the amount of data wcarchive sends out is almost entirely a function of the number of users and not of any other factor. >Also, is there some special tuning of parameters (say, reserve some >memory for holding directories, modify ftpd to so some readahead >depending on the actual speed of the connection, etc.) Yes, I've made many major changes to wu-ftpd. My version runs as a daemon, for example, and is not spawned by inetd. I've also changed various kernel parameters to optimize for speed at the expense of some memory. Please don't ask for all the details - I have my hands full already and don't have the time to go into it all. Several people have suggested that I should do a Usenix presentation on all that I've learned from tuning/operating wcarchive...perhaps I might. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 02:16:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA27628 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 02:16:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from snake.hut.fi (root@snake.hut.fi [193.167.6.99]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA27623 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 02:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.hut.fi (alpha.hut.fi [130.233.224.50]) by snake.hut.fi (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02512 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:16:31 +0200 (EET) Received: (vode@localhost) by alpha.hut.fi (8.6.11/8.6.7) id MAA22778; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:16:31 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:16:31 +0200 Message-Id: <199603111016.MAA22778@alpha.hut.fi> From: Kai Vorma To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP and statistics. How? In-Reply-To: <199603102037.WAA16090@grumble.grondar.za> References: <199603102037.WAA16090@grumble.grondar.za> Reply-To: Kai.Vorma@hut.fi Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok. You can grab my sup patches from ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/mirrors/sup.freebsd.org/adm/alpha.diffs They assume that yoy have sup.tar.gz from freefall and freebsd patches from ports-collection applied. The patch file is quite big because it has patches for Digital Unix (OSF/1), too. If it breaks anything you can extract accounting changes for files scmio.c supfilesrv.c and apply only those. Note that every outgoing byte is counted for so the results are sup protocol overhead + transferred files. I think this is good thing because in many cases the sup protocol causes much more traffic than the actual data.. If you don't like this then move the accounting from writedata() to writefile(). ..vode From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 03:46:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA03032 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 03:46:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA03027 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 03:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA14277 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:45:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199603111145.MAA14277@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 12:42:07 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: ; from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Mar 7, 96 7:06 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > >> The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger >> question: which operating system should I install on my PC? > > IMHO, the answer is pretty straightforward: Install the OS which solves > your problem _and_ for which you get the best support from someone nearby > with knowledge about it. Not a bad idea. > So it depends on the problem one has and the support which is "locally" > available - not on any features of any operating systems. > > Yes, i know it is oversimplificated, but .... Well, at a top level it's OK, but it's missing the point: *which* is the "OS which solves your problem _and_ for which you get the best support from someone nearby with knowledge about it."? Sure, I wasn't really addressing the second half of the question, but that's a valid point as well. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 03:53:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA03407 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 03:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA03402 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 03:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA14681 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:53:27 +0100 Message-Id: <199603111153.MAA14681@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: koshy@india.hp.com (A JOSEPH KOSHY) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 12:49:54 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603071045.AA184325548@fakir.india.hp.com>; from "A JOSEPH KOSHY" at Mar 07, 96 4:15 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>>> "jkh" == Jordan K Hubbard said: >>>>>> "gl" == Greg Lehey said: > > jkh> So many people ask me for comparative data on the two operating > jkh> systems that I think it's time to give them what they want. > [...elided...] > > gl> The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger > gl> question: which operating system should I install on my PC? > [...elided...] > > I would also love to see comparisions done with Netware, Windows NT, SCO > and others so that users get valuable information about the choices > available to them. I have this feeling that many more people use Netware- / > Windows- based PC networks than any form of Unix; many because of ignorance of > the alternatives that are available to them. > > They live with egregious performance on costly hardware and lousy stability > to boot. I think they deserve a better deal :). > > If we are going to take up the benchmarking effort seriously, we probably > should have comparisions with the current "market-leaders" in PC OSes and > networking products. I think we're in complete agreement here. > The tough part is probably locating / creating portable benchmarks. Well, I went to see a man about a horse yesterday, and while we were waiting for somebody to bring it out, he said: "You know, we're in the same business. Our company is just installing a Web server". So I asked what software they were using, and was told NT. I suggested that this might not be the best choice, and he said "Well, we're only 5 people. They tell me that we might run into trouble if we have more than 15 concurrent accesses". Now I can't remember the performance figures for FreeBSD, and he didn't say what kind of machine it would be, but there's nothing cheaper than a 100 MHz 486 nowadays, so it sounds to me like FreeBSD would run rings round the NT box. So I thought up a scenario: We contact a number of manufacturers and computer magazines, world-wide, and set up a benchmark web server machine. Every day, we change the operating system, but we don't tell anybody what the OS de jour is. We invite everybody on the web to try to access it, and to tell us what they think of the perceived response time. At the same time, we monitor the performance (and, of course, down time if the be any). This would have the advantage of being a benchmark in the public eye, and one in which the BSD OSs would have a clear lead. Any thoughts? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 04:16:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA04830 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 04:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA04811 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 04:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA16525 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:16:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199603111216.NAA16525@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: erich@lodgenet.com (Eric L. Hernes) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 13:12:31 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603071424.IAA16678@jake.lodgenet.com>; from "Eric L. Hernes" at Mar 07, 96 8:24 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been thinking about it too, but for now it's quite useable > and that's the important thing. > > > > > I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a > > similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating > > some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was > > exactly this kind of stack trace (well, it supplied other information > > as well). I won't get round to doing it until May, though. > > > > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? > > > > yea, SCO's kernel debugger has a few more advanced features that > I kind of like, that probably wouldn't be too hard to implement: > a readline type history, This is one of the things I had planned. Does anybody object to emacs-style only, if the cursor functions work? > macros and user-defined functions, Yes, I suppose macros would be needed. I don't have them in lowbug, but I miss them. > casting and structure dumping (maybe done through macros), Yes, I think the macros are the way to go. Compare with adb. It would be nice to be able to load them from the system while it is running. Lowbug uses a system call to load the symbol table, and it wouldn't take much to extend it to handle macros as well. > watchpoints (do these work in ddb?), I don't think ddb has watchpoints. Lowbug has hardware breakpoints, which stop on specific memory access (read, write, or instruction fetch), and then has conditions on the breakpoints which would effectively make them watchpoints. Since it's all in hardware, it runs effectively at normal speed (the 486, at any rate, slows down fractionally in order to catch the correct address if you have a breakpoint set). The only problem is that you're limited to 4 breakpoints. > the single step execution holds your hand a bit better, and a couple > others. Any details? > I'd also like to be able to load in a new symbol table, such as when > an lkm is loaded. It may not be automatic, but it should be possible via the mechanism I described above. > Now it's only possible to debug loaded lkms, by running nm on the > module_mod output from the modload, and using the addresses from > that. I realize that this opens a can of worms wrt to multiple lkms > and unloading, but usually you've gotta reboot before that'd kill > you anyhow :). Maybe there's a better way to do this too. Well, the code is in place, though it could do with improvement. ------------------------------------------------------------ Terry Lambert writes: > Have you ever seen WINICE for Windows95? No. I try to keep away from that sort of "operating system". > No, it's not Windows-based, it's text based, but it allows > disassembly in several format, along with loading of symbol > information for kernel modules (VXD's and VPE's) and all sorts of > other nice, nice features. I'm sure there's something interesting here, but you haven't made it sound really exciting. What additional formats are of interest? I would think that one disassembly format would be enough. I've already described the possibility of loading symbols for lkms (in fact, lowbug will even load symbols for user processes, which can be useful in some cases). > Like the ability to install debug hooks in every one of your drivers > so that if you conditionally compile them with debug (be even better > if we supported segment ID's and kernel paging...), you extend the > debug commands with driver specific table dumping, etc.. I can see where you're pointing here, but it's a bit dim in the distance. How much does WINICE contribute to this process? It's obviously possible to include debug code in a driver even without a kernel debugger, and lowbug, at any rate, has a direct call entry point. Joerg Wunsch writes: > . a simple line editor with at least 10 lines of history Yes, I think this is a popular one. > . repeat the last `print' command by pressing enter only Lowbug does this already. There are some complications: do you want the same area of memory (usually not, in the case of print, but maybe in the case of reading io ports. > . inb/outb builtins They're there in lowbug. > . a `kill' command -- i always forget about the usage of `psignal()', > and the source code is usually not available in DDB... :-) That's an interesting one. Yes, I think we can do that. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 04:49:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA06090 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 04:49:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA06085 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 04:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA19735 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:48:35 +0100 Message-Id: <199603111248.NAA19735@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Weird problem. To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 13:45:03 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603092059.NAA21396@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 9, 96 1:59 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> > Given the pid of a process, is there any way of finding the executable >> > file (including complete path) of this process? >> >> This is one of the Unix FAQs. No, it's not possible, and nobody could >> even guarantee you that the pathname is still available. If you don't >> believe it, consider the following: >> >> ./foo & rm -f foo > > Well, if it hasn't been deleted, it's possible. That depends. Consider this one: ln foo bar bar & If I go back searching the directory structure for the inode number, I'm more likely to find foo than bar. Sure, it's the correct file, but it's the wrong name. I suppose you could look at argv [0], but there's no guarantee that the process hasn't changed it. > But of course, by the time the reverse lookup is complete, it has > probably finished running anyway (it's very time consuming, but > there is nothing preventing you from writing a program to do it for > you). Again, that depends. I have plenty of processes which run for days. It shouldn't take *that* long to search the directory tree. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 05:05:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA07193 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 05:05:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA07188 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 05:05:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tw7Hu-0003w0C; Mon, 11 Mar 96 05:05 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA12717; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:05:16 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Greg Lehey cc: koshy@india.hp.com (A JOSEPH KOSHY), hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:49:54 +0700." <199603111153.MAA14681@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:05:14 +0000 Message-ID: <12715.826549514@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [...] So I thought up a scenario: > > We contact a number of manufacturers and computer magazines, > world-wide, and set up a benchmark web server machine. Every day, > we change the operating system, but we don't tell anybody what the > OS de jour is. We invite everybody on the web to try to access it, > and to tell us what they think of the perceived response time. At > the same time, we monitor the performance (and, of course, down time > if the be any). > > This would have the advantage of being a benchmark in the public eye, > and one in which the BSD OSs would have a clear lead. Any thoughts? I think this would be far more valuable if somebody else "thought of it", a magazine for instance, since they are far less likely to be accused of rigging the demo. Good idea apart from that little wrinkle. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 06:10:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10506 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 06:10:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA10501 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 06:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA00634; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 06:06:52 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: koshy@india.hp.com (A JOSEPH KOSHY), hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:49:54 +0700." <199603111153.MAA14681@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 06:06:52 -0800 Message-ID: <632.826553212@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > would run rings round the NT box. So I thought up a scenario: Sounds like a fair bit of work. > This would have the advantage of being a benchmark in the public eye, > and one in which the BSD OSs would have a clear lead. Any thoughts? Uh, if you want to run with this then I'd say it has a fair chance of doing some good, otherwise it'll almost certainly go nowhere. I can't think of anyone who'd have the time to administer something like this. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 08:02:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17447 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17441 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA17708; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:55:51 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603111555.JAA17708@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: IDE performance To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:55:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603082252.XAA13934@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Mar 8, 96 11:52:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BTW, I'd like to try the ccd driver on multiple IDE disks [at 5.5MB > each, I am really curious how they scale up!]. Any idea if I can > boot no, due to the way ccd gets configured at runtime from /etc/ccd.conf > /swap yes, I think > on a ccd "unit" ? And, in this case, any idea on how can > I install the system on a ccd "unit" ? install normally, install ccd, configure and set up partitions on the ccd drive, copy /usr or whatever over onto the ccd partitions.. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 08:02:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17512 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17500 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id DAA12008 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 03:02:37 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199603111602.DAA12008@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 03:02:37 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How does one recover from the clobbered partition table that no longer exists after you try to install another drive with the 2.1 install disk ? michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 08:04:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17685 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:04:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17674 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA05112 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:03:17 +0100 Message-Id: <199603111603.RAA05112@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 16:59:46 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: ; from "Brian Tao" at Mar 5, 96 1:50 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> This is a "good news, bad news" situation. The bad news ist that it's >> not legal. The good news is, the book will come free with the CD-ROM. > > Excellent! Any word on pricing of the package (or is the book > really being given away with each CD set purchase)? I don't think they've decided yet. I'll keep you posted. As far as I know, it is currently at the printers. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 08:07:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17897 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:07:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabal.io.org (cabal.io.org [198.133.36.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17888 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.4/8.7.4) id LAA28878; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:06:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:06:29 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Eric Chet cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, Eric Chet wrote: > > I second this, what would the cost be for four cdroms? Maybe an extra buck or two to press, but I think Jordan's initial reaction had more to do with the thought of managing twice the amount of information in the same amount of time and for roughly the same amount of money! ;-) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 08:11:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA18261 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18247 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:11:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603111611.IAA18247@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA109580795; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 03:13:15 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: debugging crash dumps for LKM's To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 03:13:14 +1100 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is it possible to make gdb do something useful if you're trying to debug a LKM rather than just have it show meaningless symbols ? thanks, darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 08:57:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA24710 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from FSL.ORST.EDU (root@FSL.ORST.EDU [128.193.112.105]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24683 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from picea.FSL.ORST.EDU (hernanw@picea.FSL.ORST.EDU [128.193.112.3]) by FSL.ORST.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA17958; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:56:12 -0800 Received: (from hernanw@localhost) by picea.FSL.ORST.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA16772; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:56:11 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:56:10 -0800 (PST) From: Wayne Hernandez To: Mark Murray cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SUP and statistics. How? In-Reply-To: <199603101129.NAA09949@grumble.grondar.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What I am doing, is a netstat every half hour. Does not get everybody, but it is helpful for the most part. I would also like to see something that either goes to syslog, or it's own log file. Wayne On Sun, 10 Mar 1996, Mark Murray wrote: > Hi > > Has anyone out there got a clever way to measure SUP usage? > > In running a site I like to know how much it is being used (helps > convince people sometimes :-)), and the various ftpd's do a good > job. AFAIK, there is no such loggin info from supfilesrv(8). > > Anyone know any tricks? Anyone working on anything? Otherwise I > may just hack the source... > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 10:06:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA29539 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from freelunch.freenet.kiev.ua (freelunch.freenet.kiev.ua [194.44.28.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29233 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ukma.kiev.ua ([194.44.143.26]) by freelunch.freenet.kiev.ua (8.6.13/osf3.2xla) with ESMTP id TAA12524; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:59:04 +0200 Received: from snark.ukma.kiev.ua (snark.ukma.kiev.ua [194.44.142.83]) by knight.ukma.kiev.ua (8.6.12/dk#3) with ESMTP id TAA05986; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:35:33 +0200 Received: (from dk@localhost) by snark.ukma.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA17678; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:47:37 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:47:37 +0200 From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199603111747.TAA17678@snark.ukma.kiev.ua> To: sia@jriver.com, sia@nest.org Subject: libcrypt patch to allow mixed DES/MD5 passwords Cc: bag@ua.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi hackers, Following are 2 patches for descrypt which make it fallback to md5 crypt if the salt begins with a '$'. the patches are against 2.1-RELEASE lib and secure distributions; they are relative to $src/lib/libcrypt and $src/secure/lib/libcrypt sorry for broken $Id$s; you can always fix the patch by hand. you need to remove old /usr/lib/libcrypt* symlinks and do a `make install' in secure/lib/libcrypt you need to rebuild init (in secure) afterwards or otherwise you wouldn't be able to login to secure console in single-user if you change the password to DES-encrypted. I have noticed that xdm stopped working; I hope to fix that soon. I am running these patches since February 24th on our 7-machine LAN (FreeBSD as NIS server, Solaris and Linux as NIS clients, diskless FreeBSD 4Mb boxes as X terminals) with no problems apart from xdm I've mentioned. You can't use MD5 passwords on other systems until you patch theirs libc, obvious. And even after that you can't fix all the static buffers. All new passwords would be DES-encrypted unless you change passwd(1) or yppasswd(1) (same on FreeBSD, other program on other systems) to make '$1$text' to be your salt. It was just very helpful to merge 2 password databases without causing half of users to change their passwords. please feedback to me directly since I don't read -hackers after my home disk crash. cheers, Dmitry. lib-libcrypt.diff secure-libcrypt.diff diff -ru lib/libcrypt/crypt.c ./crypt.c --- lib/libcrypt/crypt.c Tue May 30 08:42:22 1995 +++ ./crypt.c Mon Mar 11 18:04:50 1996 @@ -40,7 +40,11 @@ */ char * +#ifdef SCRYPT +scrypt(pw, salt) +#else crypt(pw, salt) +#endif register const char *pw; register const char *salt; { diff -ru secure/lib/libcrypt/Makefile ./Makefile --- secure/lib/libcrypt/Makefile Sat Aug 27 02:31:11 1994 +++ ./Makefile Mon Mar 11 18:25:39 1996 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # -# $Id: Makefile,v 1.7 1994/08/26 23:31:11 wollman Exp $ +# $Id: Makefile,v 1.1 1996/02/24 15:54:31 dk Exp dk $ # LCRYPTBASE= libcrypt @@ -9,8 +9,10 @@ LDCRYPTBASE= libdescrypt LDCRYPTSO= $(LDCRYPTBASE).so.$(SHLIB_MAJOR).$(SHLIB_MINOR) +.PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../../lib/libmd LIB= descrypt -SRCS= crypt.c +SRCS= crypt.c scrypt.c md5c.c +CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../../libmd -DSCRYPT PRECIOUSLIB= yes #MAN3= crypt.3 @@ -22,6 +24,9 @@ test: cd test ; make test ; make clean + +scrypt.c: + ln -s ${.CURDIR}/../../../lib/libcrypt/crypt.c scrypt.c .include diff -ru secure/lib/libcrypt/crypt.c ./crypt.c --- secure/lib/libcrypt/crypt.c Tue May 30 09:11:46 1995 +++ ./crypt.c Sat Feb 24 18:11:53 1996 @@ -32,7 +32,7 @@ * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. * - * $Id: crypt.c,v 1.6 1995/05/30 06:11:46 rgrimes Exp $ + * $Id: crypt.c,v 1.1 1996/02/24 16:06:00 dk Exp dk $ * * This is an original implementation of the DES and the crypt(3) interfaces * by David Burren . @@ -63,6 +63,10 @@ # include #endif +#ifdef SCRYPT +extern char *scrypt(char *, char *); +#endif + /* We can't always assume gcc */ #ifdef __GNUC__ #define INLINE inline @@ -588,6 +592,11 @@ u_long count, salt, l, r0, r1, keybuf[2]; u_char *p, *q; static u_char output[21]; + +#ifdef SCRYPT + if (setting[0] == '$') + return(scrypt(key, setting)); +#endif if (!des_initialised) des_init(); From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 10:28:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01539 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from doleh.com (doleh.nai.net [205.139.1.114]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01500 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from yaser@localhost) by doleh.com (8.6.12/96.03.01.0) id NAA03888 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:29:30 -0500 From: "Yaser K. Doleh" Message-Id: <199603111829.NAA03888@doleh.com> Subject: First attempt to write a device driver To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:29:30 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I started writting a device driver for an IBM Token Ring card. I am doing this just to learn how to write a device driver nothing more. here are some of the problems I ran into and I was wordering if somebody can point me to the write direction of where to find more information. When I put an entry in the kernel config like device tr0 at isa? port 0xA20 net irq 11 iomem 0xde000 vector trintr Does this means the routine "trintr" will called when the card generate an interrupt ? I don't seem to be able to get this routine called. I think I followed what the IBM manual says but no interrupts. So from the BSD kernel point of view what is my check list to make sure my "trintr" gets called. How can I tell the kernel that this is a network device ? The kernel does not seem to recongnize the device as a network device ? i.e. when I boot with -c the device is not listed under network devices. I used the ix driver as a starting point and basicly changed what the functions do. I even attached the driver to the ethernet code just to experiment. I can ifconfig the interface, my ioctl function is called and I can ping the interface itself (normal since this has nothing to do with my driver). I am also thinking of really hooking the driver to the ethernet code and just convert tokenring<->ethernet in my driver. So to the machine it will look like this is an ethernet driver but to the network it will look like its a tokenring. Any hints of comments are really appreciated. Very truly yours Yaser Doleh Yaser@Doleh.Com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 11:07:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04234 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:07:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04228 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01921; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:07:32 -0800 (PST) To: Brian Tao cc: Eric Chet , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:06:29 EST." Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:07:32 -0800 Message-ID: <1919.826571252@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Maybe an extra buck or two to press, but I think Jordan's initial > reaction had more to do with the thought of managing twice the amount > of information in the same amount of time and for roughly the same > amount of money! ;-) Precisely! My life is complicated enough already.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 11:20:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA05299 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05286 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14981(4)>; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:19:27 PST Received: from johngalt.mc.xerox.com (johngalt.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19842; Mon, 11 Mar 96 14:19:28 EST Received: by johngalt.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07438; Mon, 11 Mar 96 14:19:27 EST Message-Id: <9603111919.AA07438@johngalt.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Darren Reed Cc: archie@tribe.com (Archie Cobbs), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 1996 21:02:49 PST." <199603090501.VAA18912@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:19:25 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't think LILO is anywhere near as good as booteasy. > For one, there's only a Unix/Linux interface, AFAIK. > Another, is LILO doesn't give a menu (by default). > > I can boot everything but Linux with booteasy, across two HD's. > Why do we need LILO ? :-) > > darren I think work has to be done in all camps to make it work more consistently...I have several machines I use with a combination of windows/freebsd/linux fbsdboot and booteasy give different results depending on (it appears) system differences. I don't use lilo yet (I need to learn how to use it...) but loadlin seems to work everywhere (even ontrack disks...). -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 12:02:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10395 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:02:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10390 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0twDn8-000I8mC; Mon, 11 Mar 96 21:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0twCpz-00000iC; Mon, 11 Mar 96 20:00 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:00:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603111145.MAA14277@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 11, 96 12:42:07 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > Well, at a top level it's OK, but it's missing the point: *which* is > the "OS which solves your problem i.e.: Problem OS etc. ------- ------- Layout MAC - Quark Database server UNIX - Sybase/Oracle/Informix etc. Communication server UNIX WYSIWYG wordproc Windows - Word Spreadsheet Windows - Visicalc etc. etc. etc. > [...] _and_ for which you get the best > support from someone nearby with knowledge about it."? You still have a choice in the above list, i.e.: for layout purposes you can get Quark also for Windows or you can run Frame under Unix. Now if you _know_ already someone competent who runs one of this programs under any one of the OS'es mentioned and who is willing and able to help you, i would choose the hard- and software he/she recommends. First, find the (application) software (and people who give support) which solves a given problem, then get the hardware/os combination to run it. IMHO it's a mistake to fall in love with an OS, get the hardware to run it and then eventually recognize that there is no (already written) software available which solves the problem you once had. When a customer calls for help, he don't asks for the most elegant way to solve his problem, but for a fast cost effective way of solving it. Now, _my_ private problem was, _i_ wanted the source for my operating system .. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 12:04:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10516 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:04:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10511 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:04:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Subject: historical note.. To: forum@TFS.COM, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:02:47 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just found this in the BSD4.3 kernel I'm trying to debug.. it's from vmparam.h.. /* * Just for fun: current memory prices are 4600$ a megabyte on VAX (4/22/81), * so we loan each swapped in process memory worth 100$, or just admit * that we don't consider it worthwhile and swap it out to disk which costs * $30/mb or about $0.75. */ note that the cost of RAM is less what it cost for disk then.. 15 years change.. and due to inflation, the ram is even cheaper in real terms.. in the code in question they are trying to save 25K for the process........... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 12:21:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA11485 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:21:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA11480 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA03753; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:16:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603112016.NAA03753@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:16:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: erich@lodgenet.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603111216.NAA16521@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 11, 96 01:12:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert writes: > > > Have you ever seen WINICE for Windows95? > > No. I try to keep away from that sort of "operating system". > > > No, it's not Windows-based, it's text based, but it allows > > disassembly in several format, along with loading of symbol > > information for kernel modules (VXD's and VPE's) and all sorts of > > other nice, nice features. > > I'm sure there's something interesting here, but you haven't made it > sound really exciting. What additional formats are of interest? I > would think that one disassembly format would be enough. I've already > described the possibility of loading symbols for lkms (in fact, lowbug > will even load symbols for user processes, which can be useful in some > cases). > > > Like the ability to install debug hooks in every one of your drivers > > so that if you conditionally compile them with debug (be even better > > if we supported segment ID's and kernel paging...), you extend the > > debug commands with driver specific table dumping, etc.. > > I can see where you're pointing here, but it's a bit dim in the > distance. How much does WINICE contribute to this process? It's > obviously possible to include debug code in a driver even without a > kernel debugger, and lowbug, at any rate, has a direct call entry > point. Here is a budgo screen shot. Three overlay windows are shown, with the bottom window being the default debugger display. The first window is the register window. When a value is changes by an operation it is highlighted by being shown in cyan instead of white (PC color naming for text displays). The "o d I s z a P c" is a flags status area. The "I" and "P" are uppercase (and cyan) because the last instruction to be executed caused those flags to change. The second window is the data window. The "byte" indicator shows that the contents of the window resulted from a "db" command. The "dw" and "dd" commands dump 2 and 4 byte quantities, respectively. The dump is on the basis of clustering the hex values in 2, 4, and 8 "digit" values, respectively. This is to ensure direct readability without byte order dependency. The location of the ASCII translation for the dump data doesn't move (ie: the hex codes are space-compressed left). The third window is the disassembly window. This is the default mode being shown here. There is also the ability to say "code on" at a prompt, which would result, for instance, in the line: 0028:C02A545C AND BYTE PTR [EBX+03],7F Being shown as: 0028:C02A545C 8063037F AND BYTE PTR [EBX+03],7F Instead. Windows delete from the top down; that is, if the register window were not shown, the data window would be at the top of the screen, etc. Windows are easily toggled using Alt-F1 for the register window, Alt-F2 for the Data window, and Alt-F3 for the disassembly window. The location of the current instruction pointer is highlighted in the disassembly window. The final window, actually, the underlying window on which the others are overlaid, consists of all remaining screen lines, save the last line which is a black-on-cyan status line, containing command context sensitive help, or by default, "Enter a Command or ? For Help" (the fake screen shot shows the status line help for a partial input of a command beginning with "d"). Address references for which a symbolic name exists are shown as symbols. It is possible to load symbols for loadable modules. In FreeBSD, this really is an issue with putting symbol code and link code into the kernel itself (symbols must exist to be reexported; Microsoft handles this for their own VXD's by associating a .LIB file with each VXD and forcing dependent VXD's to be linked against the proper LIB. This is actually inferior to the ability to truly dynamically relink). Perhaps the most important thing is that the video card services are fully virtualized. That is, when I hit a kernel breakpoint while in a graphic mode or in a DOS shell (or in the BSD case, if I panic), the card state is restored without having to appeal to a process like the X server, which can't possibly be running in the case of a breakpoint in something like the VM system. I can put the screen into 43 or 50 line mode to allow me to make the windows larger. Editing capabilities exist for the register and data windows, and it is possible to assemble code from the command line by entering into a code input mode. Instructions being replaces during an edit are changed to one by NOP's for "short" instructions to keep the followon code valid. Finally, the function keys can be bound to specific sequences; some of the defaults are "step around", "step into", "go", etc. -- the same bindings for the visual debugger. The windows are size adjustable, and the default configuration is communicated to the debugger on system startup (it is, in fact, possible to cause the debugger to trace the full OS load process once the OS is present enough to allow it to run. For BSD, this would include starting a second processor, starting the init process, mounting the root FS, etc.). Bugdo screen shot: =============================================================================== EAX=00000800 EBX=C0FCE34C ECX=00000001 EDX=00000000 ESI=C00489A7 EDI=00000000 EBP=C33E2F70 ESP=C33E2E08 EIP=C02A5445 o d I s z a P c CS=0028 DS=0030 SS=0030 ES=0030 FS=0030 GS=0030 --------------------------------------------------byte--------------PROT---(0)-- 0030:00000000 9E 0F C9 00 65 04 70 00-16 00 2E 05 65 04 70 00 ....e.p.....e.p. 0030:00000010 65 04 70 00 54 FF 00 F0-43 EB 00 F0 EB EA 00 F0 e.p.T...C....... -------------------------------------------------------------------------PROT32- 0028:C02A5442 CALL [EBX+0C] 0028:C02A5445 POPAD 0028:C02A5446 RET 0028:C02A5447 XOR EBX,EBX 0028:C02A5449 XCHG EBX,[C00A41B0] 0028:C02A544F OR EBX,EBX 0028:C02A5451 JZ C02A54A5 0028:C02A5453 MOV AL,[C00A41B4] 0028:C02A5458 TEST AL,80 0028:C02A545A JNZ C02A5471 0028:C02A545C AND BYTE PTR [EBX+03],7F ------------------------------------VKD(04)+05E2-------------------------------- :x :x :db 00000000 :u C02A5442 :d D, DATA, DD, DB, DEX, DL, DS, DT, DW =============================================================================== Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 12:27:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA11872 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA11867 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:27:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA03782; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:24:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603112024.NAA03782@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Weird problem. To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:24:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603111248.NAA19735@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 11, 96 01:45:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> > Given the pid of a process, is there any way of finding the executable > >> > file (including complete path) of this process? > >> > >> This is one of the Unix FAQs. No, it's not possible, and nobody could > >> even guarantee you that the pathname is still available. If you don't > >> believe it, consider the following: > >> > >> ./foo & rm -f foo > > > > Well, if it hasn't been deleted, it's possible. > > That depends. Consider this one: > > ln foo bar > bar & > > If I go back searching the directory structure for the inode number, > I'm more likely to find foo than bar. Sure, it's the correct file, > but it's the wrong name. 8-). The name isn't an attribute of the file, so I don't think this is really a problem. > > But of course, by the time the reverse lookup is complete, it has > > probably finished running anyway (it's very time consuming, but > > there is nothing preventing you from writing a program to do it for > > you). > > Again, that depends. I have plenty of processes which run for days. > It shouldn't take *that* long to search the directory tree. Well, the first search should be of the name cache, *then* the directory tree. Presumably, the file had to have been looked up for it to have been run. But now we are getting into implementation details for the original poster, and those are *his* problem, since what he wants to do is pretty silly. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 12:37:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA12979 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:37:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12940 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04796; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:34:47 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199603112034.WAA04796@grumble.grondar.za> To: Wayne Hernandez cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SUP and statistics. How? Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:34:47 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wayne Hernandez wrote: > What I am doing, is a netstat every half hour. Does not get everybody, > but it is helpful for the most part. I would also like to see something > that either goes to syslog, or it's own log file. I have an offer of code that will syslog this. Thanks! M > Wayne > > On Sun, 10 Mar 1996, Mark Murray wrote: > > > Hi > > > > Has anyone out there got a clever way to measure SUP usage? > > > > In running a site I like to know how much it is being used (helps > > convince people sometimes :-)), and the various ftpd's do a good > > job. AFAIK, there is no such loggin info from supfilesrv(8). > > > > Anyone know any tricks? Anyone working on anything? Otherwise I > > may just hack the source... > > -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 12:47:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA14227 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14219 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:47:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from spiffy.cybernet.com (spiffy.cybernet.com [192.245.33.55]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA18119 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:45:58 -0500 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.4-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:22:01 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mtaylor@cybernet.com Organization: Cybernet Systems Corporation From: (Mark J. Taylor) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Cortex-I frame grabber support dropped? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering about the status of the Cortex-I frame grabber support for FreeBSD. I used to use these boards, and now the /dev/MAKEDEV entry for them has vanished! 2.0.5 didn't have it, and neither does 2.1.0-REL or 2.2-current. Please commit the changes to the kernel code that I noted months ago in the -hackers list (you can search for it on www.freebsd.org, keyword: Cortex). I made a four-line change to the /sys/i386/isa/ctx.c file, and a note about the incorrect address/phone# listed in that file. This is the third? time that I've mentioned these changes. The MAKEDEV entry was put in by Rod, but none of the other changes ever went in. -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 12:57:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15454 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15444 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:57:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.7.4/8.7.3) id MAA04137; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:56:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:56:36 -0800 (PST) From: -Vince- To: Dmitry Kohmanyuk cc: sia@jriver.com, sia@nest.org, bag@ua.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua Subject: Re: libcrypt patch to allow mixed DES/MD5 passwords In-Reply-To: <199603111747.TAA17678@snark.ukma.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Dmitry Kohmanyuk wrote: Is there anyway to make a system with DES passwords back into a MD5 system? Cheers, -Vince- vince@COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin - http://www.COSC.GOV/~vince UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center - Board of Advisors Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! Linda Wong/Vivian Chow/Hacken Lee/Danny Chan/Priscilla Chan Fan Club Mailing Lists Admin > Hi hackers, > > Following are 2 patches for descrypt which make it fallback to > md5 crypt if the salt begins with a '$'. > > the patches are against 2.1-RELEASE lib and secure distributions; > they are relative to $src/lib/libcrypt and $src/secure/lib/libcrypt > sorry for broken $Id$s; you can always fix the patch by hand. > > you need to remove old /usr/lib/libcrypt* symlinks and do a `make install' > in secure/lib/libcrypt > > you need to rebuild init (in secure) afterwards or otherwise you wouldn't be able > to login to secure console in single-user if you change the password > to DES-encrypted. > > I have noticed that xdm stopped working; I hope to fix that soon. > > I am running these patches since February 24th on our 7-machine LAN > (FreeBSD as NIS server, Solaris and Linux as NIS clients, diskless > FreeBSD 4Mb boxes as X terminals) with no problems apart from xdm > I've mentioned. > > You can't use MD5 passwords on other systems until you patch theirs > libc, obvious. And even after that you can't fix all the static buffers. > > All new passwords would be DES-encrypted unless you change passwd(1) > or yppasswd(1) (same on FreeBSD, other program on other systems) > to make '$1$text' to be your salt. > > It was just very helpful to merge 2 password databases without causing > half of users to change their passwords. > > please feedback to me directly since I don't read -hackers after > my home disk crash. > > cheers, > Dmitry. > > lib-libcrypt.diff > secure-libcrypt.diff > > diff -ru lib/libcrypt/crypt.c ./crypt.c > --- lib/libcrypt/crypt.c Tue May 30 08:42:22 1995 > +++ ./crypt.c Mon Mar 11 18:04:50 1996 > @@ -40,7 +40,11 @@ > */ > > char * > +#ifdef SCRYPT > +scrypt(pw, salt) > +#else > crypt(pw, salt) > +#endif > register const char *pw; > register const char *salt; > { > > > diff -ru secure/lib/libcrypt/Makefile ./Makefile > --- secure/lib/libcrypt/Makefile Sat Aug 27 02:31:11 1994 > +++ ./Makefile Mon Mar 11 18:25:39 1996 > @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ > # > -# $Id: Makefile,v 1.7 1994/08/26 23:31:11 wollman Exp $ > +# $Id: Makefile,v 1.1 1996/02/24 15:54:31 dk Exp dk $ > # > > LCRYPTBASE= libcrypt > @@ -9,8 +9,10 @@ > LDCRYPTBASE= libdescrypt > LDCRYPTSO= $(LDCRYPTBASE).so.$(SHLIB_MAJOR).$(SHLIB_MINOR) > > +.PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../../lib/libmd > LIB= descrypt > -SRCS= crypt.c > +SRCS= crypt.c scrypt.c md5c.c > +CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../../libmd -DSCRYPT > PRECIOUSLIB= yes > > #MAN3= crypt.3 > @@ -22,6 +24,9 @@ > > test: > cd test ; make test ; make clean > + > +scrypt.c: > + ln -s ${.CURDIR}/../../../lib/libcrypt/crypt.c scrypt.c > > > .include > diff -ru secure/lib/libcrypt/crypt.c ./crypt.c > --- secure/lib/libcrypt/crypt.c Tue May 30 09:11:46 1995 > +++ ./crypt.c Sat Feb 24 18:11:53 1996 > @@ -32,7 +32,7 @@ > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > * > - * $Id: crypt.c,v 1.6 1995/05/30 06:11:46 rgrimes Exp $ > + * $Id: crypt.c,v 1.1 1996/02/24 16:06:00 dk Exp dk $ > * > * This is an original implementation of the DES and the crypt(3) interfaces > * by David Burren . > @@ -63,6 +63,10 @@ > # include > #endif > > +#ifdef SCRYPT > +extern char *scrypt(char *, char *); > +#endif > + > /* We can't always assume gcc */ > #ifdef __GNUC__ > #define INLINE inline > @@ -588,6 +592,11 @@ > u_long count, salt, l, r0, r1, keybuf[2]; > u_char *p, *q; > static u_char output[21]; > + > +#ifdef SCRYPT > + if (setting[0] == '$') > + return(scrypt(key, setting)); > +#endif > > if (!des_initialised) > des_init(); > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 13:05:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16251 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:05:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (root@neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16239 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:05:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA08491; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:04:47 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603112104.QAA08491@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: homedir mirroring nightly, with an nfs overlay? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:04:47 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've got two systems up now that I have home directories on, but one of them will not always be operating in FreeBSD. The machine "neon" is my desktop machine, and houses my home directory. The machine "Glock" is a machine that can always be counted on to be in FreeBSD, and I'd like to have access to my home directory there as well. What I want to do is mirror the files from neon to Glock nightly, so that I have a <24 hour old copy on Glock to use in case the copy on neon is not available due to me being in another operating system. What I'd like to do is have an nfs mounted copy available when neon is up, but have the local copy mirrored the previous night available in the event that neon times out. Is this possible with amd or standard nfs mounting? Thanks for any suggestions! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 13:09:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16654 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:09:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@metal.ops.neosoft.com [206.109.5.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16647 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:09:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smace@localhost) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.7.3/8.6.10) id PAA15480 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:09:16 -0600 (CST) From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199603112109.PAA15480@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: Redirects and expire times... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:09:15 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think it is a bug to add a host route after receiving a ICMP redirect and NOT having any expire set on the route. If you have a default routed host in a complex topology you can get into trouble when the topology changes. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 13:12:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17365 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17208 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA05074; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:10:53 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199603112110.XAA05074@grumble.grondar.za> To: Kai Vorma cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP and statistics. How? Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:10:53 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kai Vorma wrote: > Ok. You can grab my sup patches from > > ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/mirrors/sup.freebsd.org/adm/alpha.diffs Thanks! I have them, and will look at them over the weekend! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 13:27:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA19286 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:27:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19250 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:27:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I2818SD3U8000IX1@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:57:23 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA09773; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:00:19 +0100 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:00:19 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( In-reply-to: <199603111602.DAA12008@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> To: imb@scgt.oz.au (michael butler) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199603111800.TAA09773@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > How does one recover from the clobbered partition table that no longer > exists after you try to install another drive with the 2.1 install disk ? > > michael > It happened to me, more than once. Once is ok, but twice is stupidity :-) The program below (dirty hack) scans the disk for a FS_MAGIC. Once found you can dd skip=n count=m if=/dev/rwd0 of=file the disk to a file (provided you have enough space) and do a vnconfig /dev/vn0 file mount /dev/vn0 /mnt and recover the data. You can even fsck /dev/vn0 first. BTW, tar'ing a file from a vn device to a nfs mounted FS paniced 2.1 (reproducable). --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de #include #include #include #include #include #define DKTYPENAMES #include #include /* */ #define DISKMAGIC ((u_long) 0x82564557) /* The disk magic number */ main(argc,argv) int argc; char **argv; { int i; char *dev; struct fs *f; struct disklabel *dl; struct stat sb; off_t lseek(); off_t block=0; char buf[2048]; off_t end; u_long *l; off_t offset = (off_t) 0; off_t newoffset; int ofd,fd, vd, n; if(argc==2) dev=argv[1]; else dev="/dev/rwd0"; printf("sizeof struct fs=%d\n",sizeof(struct fs)); l = (u_long *) buf; f = (struct fs *) buf; dl = (struct disklabel *) buf; if ((fd = open(dev, O_RDONLY, 0)) == -1) fprintf(stderr,"error opening %s\n",dev),exit(1); if ((ofd = open("/mnt/dump", O_CREAT|O_WRONLY, 0666)) == -1) fprintf(stderr,"error opening %s\n","/mnt/dump"),exit(1); while(read(fd, buf, 2048)>0) { write(ofd,buf,2048); block+=2048; /* printf("\r%qd",block);fflush(stdout);*/ if (*l == DISKMAGIC) { printf("\ndisklabel found at offset %qd (%qd MB/%qd)\n", block-2048, (block-2048)/ (off_t) (1024), (block-2048) / 2048); printf("d_type=%d\n%s\nd_npartitions=%d\n", dl->d_type, dl->d_typename, dl->d_npartitions); for (i = 0; i < dl->d_npartitions; i++) { printf("\t%d\t%d\t%d\t%s\n", dl->d_partitions[i].p_size, dl->d_partitions[i].p_offset, dl->d_partitions[i].p_fsize, fstypenames[dl->d_partitions[i].p_fstype]); } } if(f->fs_magic == FS_MAGIC ) printf("fs at block # %qd last mounted on %s f->fs_ncyl=%ld (%d %d %d = %d)\n",(block-2048)/512, f->fs_fsmnt, f->fs_ncyl, f->fs_ntrak, /* tracks per cylinder */ f->fs_nsect, /* sectors per track */ f->fs_spc , f->fs_spc*f->fs_ncyl /* sectors per cylinder */); } } From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 13:47:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA21402 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbox.syr.edu (root@mailbox.syr.edu [128.230.1.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA21387 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from gamera.syr.edu (cmsedore@gamera.syr.edu [128.230.1.14]) by mailbox.syr.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29305; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:47:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by gamera.syr.edu (5.x/Spike-2.0) id AA12853; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:47:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:47:18 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@gamera.syr.edu To: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-Reply-To: <199603111153.MAA14681@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > > The tough part is probably locating / creating portable benchmarks. > > Well, I went to see a man about a horse yesterday, and while we were > waiting for somebody to bring it out, he said: "You know, we're in the > same business. Our company is just installing a Web server". So I > asked what software they were using, and was told NT. I suggested > that this might not be the best choice, and he said "Well, we're only > 5 people. They tell me that we might run into trouble if we have more > than 15 concurrent accesses". > > Now I can't remember the performance figures for FreeBSD, and he > didn't say what kind of machine it would be, but there's nothing > cheaper than a 100 MHz 486 nowadays, so it sounds to me like FreeBSD > would run rings round the NT box. So I thought up a scenario: > > We contact a number of manufacturers and computer magazines, > world-wide, and set up a benchmark web server machine. Every day, > we change the operating system, but we don't tell anybody what the > OS de jour is. We invite everybody on the web to try to access it, > and to tell us what they think of the perceived response time. At > the same time, we monitor the performance (and, of course, down time > if the be any). How would you attract the users? I like the idea, but am at a loss for how to get the users to come and see. What content distribution would you use (size of files, etc)? > This would have the advantage of being a benchmark in the public eye, > and one in which the BSD OSs would have a clear lead. Any thoughts? I'm quite confident that NT doesn't "run into trouble" at 15 concurrent accesses (at least with my web server), so it might be wise to run some tests in the background before "strut our stuff" too confidently :) I like the idea, though. Does someone have great insight on a attracting large numbers of users? (Ignoring the obvious, ehem, "lude" content :) -Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 13:55:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA22336 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:55:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabal.io.org (cabal.io.org [198.133.36.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA22163 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.4/8.7.4) id QAA29206; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:50:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:50:49 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Joe Greco cc: mtaylor@cybernet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine In-Reply-To: <199603062336.RAA04112@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > No. In particular look at the size of history.pag as a clue to how much RAM > you need. My many-years-tried-and-true INN RAM formula is: > > Memory: 16MB + sizeof(history.pag) * 2MB + numclients * 1MB + numfeeds * 1MB. That would be a very "safe" assumption to make if you plan on running the sharedactive patch with INN's in.nnrpd. Without the patch, I find that in.nnrpd chews up sizeof(active+newsgroups), which can exceed 2MB if you have 20,000+ groups. With the patch, you can easily get away with "0.5MB * numclients". > > C) would separate SCSI busses help? (I plan to put a second 4.3Gb HD > > in for the rest of the news spool) > > Go PCI SCSI if you can. Also, the more disks, the merrier (I have 14 but > then I'm a performance freak). Yes, definitely. I've got 9 drives here and they all blink merrily away every second of the day, every day. Looks really nifty in a darkened machine room. :) > > D) whose SCSI card has the 'best' performance? > > I've had good luck with the AHA3940 and NCR-810 based cards. The AHA2940 > should work well too. I've got three NCR's here. No problems. > Pay close attention to the memory advice. I see so many people try to get > by without enough memory. It doesn't pay. I run Exec-PC's news operation > and they try to squeeze 150-200 nnrp clients onto a box with 128MB RAM. > They complain to me that it "takes forever to connect". I wonder why. ;-) Bullpuckey. :) trn over a local Ethernet connection to the news server here takes less than 5 seconds to display the first newsgroup prompt. This is with a 28MB in-core innd process a dozen crossfeeds and 230 nnrpd's. load averages: 0.70, 0.78, 0.82 16:43:33 271 processes: 2 running, 274 sleeping Cpu states: 12.6% user, 0.8% nice, 16.9% system, 9.6% interrupt, 60.2% idle Memory: 92M Active, 868K Inact, 16M Wired, 13M Cache, 176K Free Swap: 262M Total, 252M Free, 4% Inuse PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 12957 news -6 4 28M 28M sleep 10:22 19.00% 19.00% innd 16183 root 40 0 648K 992K run 0:00 4.92% 0.69% top 16179 news 2 4 276K 1224K sleep 0:00 1.97% 0.65% in.nnrpd 16181 news 2 4 292K 760K sleep 0:00 2.21% 0.57% in.nnrpd 8614 news 2 0 232K 540K run 1:01 0.50% 0.50% innxmit 13973 news 2 0 304K 1272K sleep 0:09 0.27% 0.27% in.nnrpd [...] BTW, news.io.org is open to all sites for reading (posting is restricted to io.org and our customer sites). I have a cron job that checks on the number of connected readers, and I don't think I've seen it drop below 150 in the past week. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 14:43:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA25613 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 14:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA25606 Mon, 11 Mar 1996 14:43:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199603112243.OAA25606@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: historical note.. To: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 14:43:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Mar 11, 96 12:02:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer wrote: > > I just found this in the BSD4.3 kernel I'm trying to debug.. > it's from vmparam.h.. > > /* > * Just for fun: current memory prices are 4600$ a megabyte on VAX (4/22/81), > * so we loan each swapped in process memory worth 100$, or just admit > * that we don't consider it worthwhile and swap it out to disk which costs > * $30/mb or about $0.75. > */ > > note that the cost of RAM is less what it cost for disk then.. > 15 years change.. and due to inflation, the ram is even cheaper > in real terms.. > > in the code in question they are trying to save 25K for the process........... HEY! somebody took this out fo the FreeBSD sources! not fair. this is part of our heritage. so it make the source distribution a little larger. so what disk is cheaper than ever. i want it back. please submit a diff. ;^) jmb ps. for those dealing with too much stress, and unable to tell this is my attempt at humor. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 15:02:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27009 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26982 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA14660 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:02:02 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA27761 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:02:02 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id XAA00744 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:55:28 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603112255.XAA00744@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:55:27 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603111216.NAA16525@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 11, 96 01:12:31 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > . repeat the last `print' command by pressing enter only > > Lowbug does this already. There are some complications: do you want > the same area of memory (usually not, in the case of print, but maybe > in the case of reading io ports. The location counter is already counted up (if you issue the next print command, it will continue where it stopped before), but the implicit print command should better use the range from the last one (as opposed to falling back to a range of 1). This way, one could nicely browse through a disassembled function or a larger block of data. I don't think any command should be auto-repeated. The gdb'ism of telling me ``Note: breakpoint is also set at this location'' when hitting after just setting a breakpoint is rather annoying, and in case of DDB, many of these auto-repeated commands might be rather dangerous. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 15:02:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27070 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27061 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA14640; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:01:53 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA27754; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:01:52 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id XAA00383; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:26:19 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603112226.XAA00383@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:26:19 +0100 (MET) Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au (michael butler) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603111602.DAA12008@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> from "michael butler" at Mar 12, 96 03:02:37 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As michael butler wrote: > > How does one recover from the clobbered partition table that no longer > exists after you try to install another drive with the 2.1 install disk ? By writing down the figures before clobbering it. Or by remembring about the exact file system assignments that have been used by the time of installation. This once helped me to recover from a clobbered BSD disklabel. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 15:07:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27600 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:07:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27432 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:06:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.4/8.7.4) id SAA22443; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:01:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:01:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Mark Murray cc: Kai Vorma , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SUP and statistics. How? In-Reply-To: <199603112110.XAA05074@grumble.grondar.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Mark Murray wrote: > Kai Vorma wrote: > > Ok. You can grab my sup patches from > > > > ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/mirrors/sup.freebsd.org/adm/alpha.diffs > > Thanks! I have them, and will look at them over the weekend! > Got them installed over here, and they seem to work. Had to create an entry in /etc/syslog.conf, though, to support LOCAL1.*, but that's okay, since now it logs all supfilesrv accesses to a seperate log file from anything else :) Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 15:51:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA01129 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from novell.com ([147.2.128.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01120 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from INET-NJ-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:48:26 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:56:07 -0500 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: hackers@freebsd.org, mmead@Glock.COM Subject: homedir mirroring nightly, with an nfs overlay? - Reply Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems to me all you need to do is export a filesystem from Glock. Automount it from Neon, and have either a cron job or you copy the contents of Neon back to Glock. If you are trying to maintain a consistant name space(having pathnames identical for both machines), then you will have to do something a little more creative such as mount it on a temporary directory so that you can copy to the correct path. NFS is not capable of any explicit disconnect file semantics. I only know of a few filesystems capable of such feats with Coda (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/coda/Web/coda.html) being the premier research filesystem. Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 16:07:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA02148 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA02116 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:07:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA24351; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:46:43 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603120016.KAA24351@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: First attempt to write a device driver To: yaser@doleh.com (Yaser K. Doleh) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:46:43 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603111829.NAA03888@doleh.com> from "Yaser K. Doleh" at Mar 11, 96 01:29:30 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yaser K. Doleh stands accused of saying: > When I put an entry in the kernel config like > > device tr0 at isa? port 0xA20 net irq 11 iomem 0xde000 vector trintr > > Does this means the routine "trintr" will called when the card generate > an interrupt ? Yes. > I don't seem to be able to get this routine called. I think I followed > what the IBM manual says but no interrupts. So from the BSD kernel > point of view what is my check list to make sure my "trintr" gets > called. Make sure the above is in your config, make sure you have interrupts enabled on the card. > How can I tell the kernel that this is a network device ? > > The kernel does not seem to recongnize the device as a network > device ? i.e. when I boot with -c the device is not listed under > network devices. You mean the 'visual' mode doesn't know your driver? That's because there's no way for it to find all the names of drivers installed itself, so that information is in the table at the top of /sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c. Look for the string "EDIT THIS LIST", and create an entry like the other network devices. > I used the ix driver as a starting point and basicly changed what > the functions do. I even attached the driver to the ethernet code > just to experiment. I can ifconfig the interface, my ioctl function > is called and I can ping the interface itself (normal since this has > nothing to do with my driver). Looks like you've got the rest of the skeleton working fine. > I am also thinking of really hooking the driver to the ethernet code > and just convert tokenring<->ethernet in my driver. So to the machine > it will look like this is an ethernet driver but to the network > it will look like its a tokenring. Um, that's an interesting approach. I'd be inclined to seperate the two so that the token-specific code could be reused for other hardware though. Have a look at /sys/net/if_ether.c. There's already code in there to handle LLC (look for "LLC" 8) which I believe is the major obstacle. Your driver shouldn't try to interpret the contents of packets itself. > Yaser Doleh -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 16:49:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA04825 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (root@neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04820 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:49:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA14210 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:48:57 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603120048.TAA14210@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: 100Mb/s ethernet To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:48:57 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm thinking of getting 100Mbps ethernet devices for my internal network, and was wondering if you can run 100Mbps ethernet over standard thinnet? ANyone know? Thanks! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 16:52:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA05281 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:52:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from doleh.com (doleh.nai.net [205.139.1.114]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05276 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from yaser@localhost) by doleh.com (8.6.12/96.03.01.0) id TAA05485; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:54:07 -0500 From: "Yaser K. Doleh" Message-Id: <199603120054.TAA05485@doleh.com> Subject: Re: First attempt to write a device driver To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:54:06 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603120016.KAA24351@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Mar 12, 96 10:46:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have one more questions which I could not figure out by looking at the source. The card have 64K shared memory which can be mapped into the machine address space. I can map 16K, 32K or the whole 64K into the address space. My question is how can I find an empty slot in the area 640 - 1MB that I can map this memory into. The driver must choose the location and set a register in the Token Ring card to tell it where to map the memory. My second question is "Do I use pmap_mapdev function ?" Michael Smith said in a letter > > Make sure the above is in your config, make sure you have interrupts > enabled on the card. > It must be the card not sending any interrupts. I guess I have to RTFM that IBM manual again. > You mean the 'visual' mode doesn't know your driver? That's because there's > no way for it to find all the names of drivers installed itself, so that > information is in the table at the top of /sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c. > Look for the string "EDIT THIS LIST", and create an entry like the other > network devices. > Yes, that's what I was looking for. Thank you. > Looks like you've got the rest of the skeleton working fine. > Yes, most of it is there. > > I am also thinking of really hooking the driver to the ethernet code > > and just convert tokenring<->ethernet in my driver. So to the machine > > it will look like this is an ethernet driver but to the network > > it will look like its a tokenring. > > Um, that's an interesting approach. I'd be inclined to seperate the two so > that the token-specific code could be reused for other hardware though. > That was a suggestion of somebody else which made me think "This is a good idea, I can get the Hardware driver working first and test it this way then I can worry about the higher layer later". I am not at that point yet, I just wanted to see what people will think about this approach. If I decide to take this approach, I will definitly seperate the driver from the conversion routines. I also have been looking at if_ethersubr.c and if_fddisubr.c files to see how easy will it be to write similar functions to handle Token Ring. > Have a look at /sys/net/if_ether.c. There's already code in there to handle > LLC (look for "LLC" 8) which I believe is the major obstacle. Your driver > shouldn't try to interpret the contents of packets itself. Thanks, I'll check it out. Very truly yours Yaser Doleh Yaser@Doleh.Com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 17:30:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA11403 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (root@neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA11389 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA00432; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:30:26 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603120130.UAA00432@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: homedir mirroring nightly, with an nfs overlay? - Reply To: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:30:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, mmead@Glock.COM In-Reply-To: from "Darren Davis" at Mar 11, 96 06:56:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Darren Davis writes: > It seems to me all you need to do is export a filesystem from Glock. Automount > it from Neon, and have either a cron job or you copy the contents of Neon > back to Glock. If you are trying to maintain a consistant name space(having > pathnames identical for both machines), then you will have to do something > a little more creative such as mount it on a temporary directory so that > you can copy to the correct path. > NFS is not capable of any explicit disconnect file semantics. I only know > of a few filesystems capable of such feats with Coda (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/coda/Web/coda.html) > being the premier research filesystem. From the ftp site, it appears that netbsd has support for CODA now. Any FreeBSD support in the works? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 18:21:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA15056 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:21:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA15050 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA22765; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:13:28 +1100 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:13:28 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603120213.NAA22765@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> How does one recover from the clobbered partition table that no longer >> exists after you try to install another drive with the 2.1 install disk ? >By writing down the figures before clobbering it. >Or by remembring about the exact file system assignments that have >been used by the time of installation. This once helped me to recover >from a clobbered BSD disklabel. Or by restoring from an up to date backup: $root dd if=/dev/rsd0 of=/var/backups/mbr.rsd0 count=1 # save $root cp /var/backups/mbr.rsd0 /dev/rsd0 # restore Or by remembering some values from an out of date backup: $root fdisk /var/backups/mbr.rsd0 fdisk: Can't get file status of /dev/r/var/ Cannot open disk /dev/r/var/ (No such file or directory) $root mail -s "someone broke device independence of fdisk" \ j@uriah.heep.sax.de # :-) and remembering other values in another way. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 19:07:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA18178 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:07:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA18161 Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04156; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:07:14 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: www@freebsd.org Subject: the FreeBSD Project is now advertising with the Unix Guru Universe. Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:07:13 -0800 Message-ID: <4153.826600033@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some of you may have already noticed the little UGU logo at the bottom of http://www.freebsd.org now. This is the result of a little creative collaboration between us and UGU, and if you visit the UGU site and click around a little you'll eventually see FreeBSD's advertisement come up (you can also see it immediately by simply bringing up their Advertiser's Index page). This is all part of my ongoing efforts to forge ties with other groups on the net, especially those engaged in complimentary endeavors. UGU provides a great service and I urge you to check it out if you haven't already. Also, many many thanks to Brian Tao for once again coming to our rescue and providing some slick imagery for the purpose. I don't know what we'd do without him! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 19:55:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA22043 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22028 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:55:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rmallory@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id TAA19820 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:59:23 -0800 From: Rob Mallory Message-Id: <199603120359.TAA19820@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: AFS client for freebsd? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:59:23 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I know Transarc does not currently support FreeBSD, but does anyone have any information of them planning to write an AFS lkm for FreeBSD? They have clients for netbsd, and just about every other os including OS2 and NT.. ...more than just wondering... -Rob Mallory [rmallory@csusb.edu][rmallory@Qualcomm.Com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 20:06:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA22790 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from dreamlabs.constantchange.on.ca (DreamLabs.ConstantChange.on.ca [198.96.119.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA22783 Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mitayai@localhost) by dreamlabs.constantchange.on.ca (8.7.4/8.6.12) id XAA13393; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:07:22 GMT Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:07:21 +0000 () From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, www@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: the FreeBSD Project is now advertising with the Unix Guru Universe. In-Reply-To: <4153.826600033@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Also, many many thanks to Brian Tao for once again coming to our > rescue and providing some slick imagery for the purpose. I don't know > what we'd do without him! > > Jordan > Three cheers for the local boy! -Mit From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 20:16:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA23587 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA23581 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:16:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA00307; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:16:20 -0800 (PST) To: Rob Mallory cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:59:23 PST." <199603120359.TAA19820@wiley.csusb.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:16:20 -0800 Message-ID: <305.826604180@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I know Transarc does not currently support FreeBSD, but does > anyone have any information of them planning to write an AFS lkm > for FreeBSD? They have clients for netbsd, and just about every I've approached them on this several times, and each time they say they'd want $500K up front to do it first. The NetBSD port was apparently a special circumstance since CMU has a license to port the code. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 21:02:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA27272 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:02:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA27264 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:02:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA30918; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:58:15 +1100 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:58:15 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603120458.PAA30918@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: erich@lodgenet.com, lehey.pad@sni.de Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, terry@lambert.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? >> > >> >> yea, SCO's kernel debugger has a few more advanced features that >> I kind of like, that probably wouldn't be too hard to implement: >> a readline type history, >This is one of the things I had planned. I planned it too, but may not get around to doing it soon enough. The command line editor should be shared with userconfig (turn off the history where it isn't wanted, e.g., for the visual config). The line editor in my debugger is 2K large including a 256-byte history buffer. >Does anybody object to >emacs-style only, if the cursor functions work? Of course everyone would object :-). Mine uses wordstar style control keys and cursor keys for editing and Turbo Debugger style function keys for tracing etc. It is difficult to support the cursor keys and more difficult to support the function keys for all terminals. Cursor keys often send an escape, which makes my debugger continue with all breakpoints disabled. >> watchpoints (do these work in ddb?), >I don't think ddb has watchpoints. Lowbug has hardware breakpoints, The version of ddb in FreeBSD has only the machine-independent parts of the support for watchpoints. >> I'd also like to be able to load in a new symbol table, such as when >> an lkm is loaded. >It may not be automatic, but it should be possible via the mechanism I >described above. modload and modunload should merge and remove symbols. It's too late to load them when the system crashes. >> . inb/outb builtins >They're there in lowbug. My debugger has these and other features: - same binary runs on 8088-Pentium - mostly OS independent (needs protected mode hooks) - mostly reentrant. Uses its own drivers for MDA-SVGA (text mode only :-(), keyboard and serial. - ROMable and misfeatures: - no expressions - no memory fault trap handlers... Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 21:15:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA28209 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (root@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.10.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA28204 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from excalibur.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (kenh@excalibur.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.6.17]) by ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA24840; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:14:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199603120514.AAA24840@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> To: Rob Mallory cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:59:23 PST." X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:15:00 -0500 From: Ken Hornstein Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I know Transarc does not currently support FreeBSD, but does >anyone have any information of them planning to write an AFS lkm >for FreeBSD? They have clients for netbsd, and just about every >other os including OS2 and NT.. It's worth pointing out that Transarc didn't have anything to do with the NetBSD AFS client - that was done by John Kohl and others at MIT. If you have a source license, I would think it wouldn't be that hard to port the source-code diffs (I looked at the code myself, for other reasons). They're pretty straightforward. If you don't .... try to find someone who does :-) --Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 21:52:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA01619 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01614 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA00623; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:51:47 -0800 (PST) To: Bruce Evans cc: erich@lodgenet.com, lehey.pad@sni.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:58:15 +1100." <199603120458.PAA30918@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:51:47 -0800 Message-ID: <621.826609907@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Does anybody object to > >emacs-style only, if the cursor functions work? > > Of course everyone would object :-). Mine uses wordstar style control > keys and cursor keys for editing and Turbo Debugger style function keys I still think that some standards are good, and the emacs characters have become something of a defacto standard for editing and history manipulation. I've seen the emacs bindings in everything from bash to the Motif text widget (as well as many others) and think that we should follow suit. I don't know about you guys, but ^P and ^N are now wired directly into my fingers! :-) [And FWIW, I also used to use wordstar - the color text enhancements to the original wordstar were mine, in fact] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 22:06:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02455 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02448 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.7.5/Unknown) with ESMTP id XAA25070; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA32697; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:05:40 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199603120605.XAA32697@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: 100Mb/s ethernet To: mmead@Glock.COM (matthew c. mead) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:05:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603120048.TAA14210@neon.Glock.COM> from "matthew c. mead" at Mar 11, 96 07:48:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No; you can only run 100Mbps over UTP (It's possible on Cat 3 UTP, but preferred on Cat 5) or on fiber. There are a few really good fast ethernet FAQs on web sites, I'd encourage you to dig one of them up. (I don't remember the URL, sorry. :) -Dave Andersen Lo and behold, matthew c. mead once said: > > I'm thinking of getting 100Mbps ethernet devices for my > internal network, and was wondering if you can run 100Mbps > ethernet over standard thinnet? ANyone know? Thanks! > > > > > -matt > > -- > Matthew C. Mead > > mmead@Glock.COM > http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ > -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual/ "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 22:55:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA08319 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA08311 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:55:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id PAA11713; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:55:18 +0900 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:55:18 +0900 Message-Id: <199603120655.PAA11713@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: gzip'ed exec problem on 960303-SNAP From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I found that my 960303-SNAP box always crashes when it exec's gzip'ed binaries. Are there any patches to fix this problem? -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 23:21:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA09908 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09897 Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id XAA07655; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:14:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:14:21 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, www@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: the FreeBSD Project is now advertising with the Unix Guru Universe. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe wrote: > Three cheers for the local boy! > -Mit Damn Canadians! Bah. hehe j/k (no flames please) == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 23:24:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA10162 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:24:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA10153 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:24:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA19225 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:23:57 +0100 Message-Id: <199603120723.IAA19225@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 8:20:23 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <621.826609907@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 11, 96 9:51 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >Does anybody object to >> >emacs-style only, if the cursor functions work? >> >> Of course everyone would object :-). Mine uses wordstar style control >> keys and cursor keys for editing and Turbo Debugger style function keys > > I still think that some standards are good, and the emacs characters > have become something of a defacto standard for editing and history > manipulation. I've seen the emacs bindings in everything from bash to > the Motif text widget (as well as many others) and think that we should > follow suit. I don't know about you guys, but ^P and ^N are now wired > directly into my fingers! :-) I've come in on the end of this. This horrible thing that passes for a mail system here has swallowed a day's worth of mail again, and didn't even regurgitate it. If anybody else has sent opinions, please resend them. Seriously, Bruce (or anybody else): what kind of editing? The main objection I have to vi-style editing in shells is that it is so ESC-intensive. I suspect it's also more difficult to program, though I don't suppose that's the real problem. If anybody has any alternatives to emacs-style bindings, please let me know a detailed description of how it should work. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 11 23:31:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA10731 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA10723 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:31:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA07648 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:30:34 +0200 From: R Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199603120730.JAA07648@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: UP/DOWN ?bug? with slattach To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:30:34 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all I have experienced the following problem with slattach on a system running FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE with a multiport io card. Setup >more /etc/start_if.sl0 slattach -a -h -s 9600 /dev/aso01 in sysconfig ifconfig_sl0="inet 146.64.54.9 146.64.54.10 netmask 255.255.255.252" The same on another FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE machine with the appropriate ifconfig. Symptoms: If both the routers boot at the same time, the link UPs and I can ping between the two machines. If I now disconnects the table at the back (break the link) the devices DOWN ... everything is fine up to now. I then reconnect the cables and the devices UP, but down if I ping I get a "Network is down" response and with a 'netstat -i' I see that there are no packets going out the interface. If I reboot one of the machines it sends the packets but the other side can't reply. I've played around and found that adding -l to slattach prevents the device from going DOWN and thus in a way solves the problem, but now it would be impossible to notice that the line has gone down. After reading the man page carefully I tried to add a -r '/mydir/dummy.redial' to slattach and removing the -l. The dummy.redial script does an echo and that is all. Everything them works fine when I disconnect the cables (device DOWNs) and reconnects and then I can ping again. I had a look at the source code of slattach as I don't see that it is necessary to have a -r option to get it to wotk with modem control set to on. I made apatch that solved my problem and I have tested a few senarios and to date nothing broke :), but I am not sure. So .. if anyone can have a look at the patch and see if it is all right I would appreciate it. It seems that a call to acquire_line() was forgotten. Thanx Reinier Summary: If slip device DOWN/UP with no -l or -r option set in slattach a "Network is down" error occurs. Patch: *** /usr/src/sbin/slattach/slattach.c Thu Oct 26 08:44:37 1995 --- slattach.c Mon Mar 11 16:28:12 1996 *************** *** 497,502 **** --- 497,503 ---- syslog(LOG_NOTICE, "SIGHUP on %s (sl%d); exiting", dev, unit); exit_handler(0); #endif + acquire_line(); if (ioctl(fd, TIOCSETD, &ttydisc) < 0) { syslog(LOG_ERR, "ioctl(TIOCSETD): %m"); exit_handler(1); From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 00:20:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA14275 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA14265 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:20:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA29489 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:20:49 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA02456 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:20:49 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA03717 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:15:31 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603120815.JAA03717@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:15:30 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603120213.NAA22765@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 12, 96 01:13:28 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > Or by remembering some values from an out of date backup: > > $root fdisk /var/backups/mbr.rsd0 > fdisk: Can't get file status of /dev/r/var/ > Cannot open disk /dev/r/var/ (No such file or directory) > $root mail -s "someone broke device independence of fdisk" \ > j@uriah.heep.sax.de # :-) Hehehe. Do you perchance know the `sombody' above so i could forward him the mail? :) Ok, i've also stumpled across this. I've already thought about rewriting fdisk with libdisk. Though this is perhaps a bit weird: i'm the one with the least personal interest in working fdisk partitions, i cannot even remember one of the disks around me that would have more than a FreeBSD slice. :-> -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 01:55:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA21642 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 01:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from vikram.doe.ernet.in (vikram.doe.ernet.in [202.41.100.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA21621 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 01:55:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from eurolink.UUCP by doe.ernet.in (4.1/SMI-4.1-MHS-7.0) id AA14466; Tue, 12 Mar 96 15:29:10+050 Received: by eurolink.ernet.in (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA03315; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:10:56 --5-30 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:10:55 +0530 (IST) From: Naveen Rawal To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Inquiry Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Hackers .... I want to know more about the FreeBSD development project and wish to be a participant in it. Pl send the details at naveenr@eurolink.ernet.in ( Naveen Rawal ) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 04:52:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA10486 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA10481 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA06448; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:51:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199603121251.HAA06448@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Rob Mallory , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:16:20 PST." <305.826604180@time.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:51:54 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I know Transarc does not currently support FreeBSD, but does > > anyone have any information of them planning to write an AFS lkm > > for FreeBSD? They have clients for netbsd, and just about every > > I've approached them on this several times, and each time they say > they'd want $500K up front to do it first. The NetBSD port was > apparently a special circumstance since CMU has a license to port the > code. Likely CMU has an AFS source code license, and Transarc allowed them to redistribute the (binary) port they did to other sites with AFS licenses, source or not. They're probably not very interested, as AFS 4 is on the back-burner, and the heat's being turned down. Or so they believe; they're pushing AFS 5, which is basically OSF DFS. It's likely not to have wide acceptance in existing AFS 4 sites, since they've actually got something that works now. I've seen the AFS 4 source code at a previous employer, and it's pretty scary in there, a maze of #ifdefs, all alike.. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 05:51:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA14806 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 05:51:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA14800 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 05:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0twUUH-0003wxC; Tue, 12 Mar 96 05:51 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA16839; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:23:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: gzip'ed exec problem on 960303-SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:55:18 +0900." <199603120655.PAA11713@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:23:47 +0000 Message-ID: <16837.826637027@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I found that my 960303-SNAP box always crashes when it exec's > gzip'ed binaries. Are there any patches to fix this problem? Some (probably VM or vnode) change broke this, I havn't got time for it right now. Nice little task for a budding kernel-freak: Compare to imgact_aout.c and spot the mistake. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 06:42:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA18811 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 06:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from defiant.flash.net (defiant.flash.net [206.149.24.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA18806 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 06:42:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from drwho (drwho.flash.net [206.149.30.51]) by defiant.flash.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA20127 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:42:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199603121442.IAA20127@defiant.flash.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: mwilson@flash.net Organization: FlashNet Communications To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 12 Mar 1996 08:42:42 +0000 Subject: Stacksize Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am needing to increase the stacksize on a FreeBSD 2.1 system. Here is my current limit after a unlimit: cputime unlimited filesize unlimited datasize 131072 kbytes stacksize 65536 kbytes coredumpsize unlimited memoryuse unlimited descriptors 2088 memorylocked 61460 kbytes maxproc 1043 Here is my unlimit on a Solaris box: filesize unlimited datasize 2097148 kbytes stacksize 2097148 kbytes coredumpsize unlimited descriptors 1024 memorysize unlimited I have a program that requires a ton of stack and 65k is just not enough. ---------------------------------------------------- Mike Wilson http://www.flash.net/~mwilson mwilson@flash.net (817)332-8883 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 06:59:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA19486 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 06:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA19476 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 06:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA20756; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 06:59:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199603121459.GAA20756@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: mwilson@flash.net cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stacksize In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Mar 1996 08:42:42 GMT." <199603121442.IAA20127@defiant.flash.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 06:59:14 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I am needing to increase the stacksize on a FreeBSD 2.1 system. Here >is my current limit after a unlimit: > >cputime unlimited >filesize unlimited >datasize 131072 kbytes >stacksize 65536 kbytes >coredumpsize unlimited >memoryuse unlimited >descriptors 2088 >memorylocked 61460 kbytes >maxproc 1043 > > >Here is my unlimit on a Solaris box: > >filesize unlimited >datasize 2097148 kbytes >stacksize 2097148 kbytes >coredumpsize unlimited >descriptors 1024 >memorysize unlimited > > >I have a program that requires a ton of stack and 65k is just not >enough. Um, that's 64MB. If you really need more than that, it can be increased by modifying /sys/i386/include/vmparam.h - see "MAXSSIZ". -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 07:06:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20011 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (root@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.10.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20002 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmsun.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (kenh@cmsun.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.10.4]) by ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA26495; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:06:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199603121506.KAA26495@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:51:54 EST." <199603121251.HAA06448@wa3ymh.transsys.com> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:06:18 -0500 From: Ken Hornstein Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Likely CMU has an AFS source code license, and Transarc allowed them >to redistribute the (binary) port they did to other sites with AFS >licenses, source or not. Twas MIT actually. I know that John Kohl had to go through a lot of work to be able to distribute the binary version of the port (and even then, your AFS admin is the only one who's allowed to download it). >I've seen the AFS 4 source code at a previous employer, and it's >pretty scary in there, a maze of #ifdefs, all alike.. Your previous employer must have been a time traveller, as AFS 3.4a was just released not very long ago :-). Too bad that even in the future they never cleaned up the source code; it's still as ugly now as it is then. --Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 07:07:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20126 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:07:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20108 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:07:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA04187 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:02:58 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma004185; Tue Mar 12 09:02:40 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA08757; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:29:12 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA22255; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:40:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603121440.IAA22255@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Yaser K. Doleh" cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: First attempt to write a device driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:54:06 EST." <199603120054.TAA05485@doleh.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:40:13 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Yaser K. Doleh" writes: > >I have one more questions which I could not figure out by looking at the >source. > >The card have 64K shared memory which can be mapped into the machine >address space. I can map 16K, 32K or the whole 64K into the address >space. My question is how can I find an empty slot in the area 640 - 1MB >that I can map this memory into. The driver must choose the location >and set a register in the Token Ring card to tell it >where to map the memory. > just pick one that doesn't conflict with your other devices. Some of the old digiboard PC/8e's use a 64k shared memory segment, which must be aligned on a 64k boundary. legal values for this card are 0x[abcde]0000, however 0x[abc]0000 all or partially conflict with most video cards, which leaves 0x[de]0000. >My second question is "Do I use pmap_mapdev function ?" > dunno, for the digi, you do and `outb' to turn on the segment and set pointers into the area. One thing that you should be aware of is that in your probe/attach functions is the id->id_maddr given to you is a kernel virtual address, not a physical address; you can get the physical, given a virtual via ``physaddr=kvtop(id->id_maddr)'' > >Michael Smith said in a letter >> >> Make sure the above is in your config, make sure you have interrupts >> enabled on the card. >> > >It must be the card not sending any interrupts. I guess I have to RTFM >that IBM manual again. > I've got a card with led's that light up when the various interrupts and drq lines are triggered. It's excellent for making sure the card is really generating the interrupts; or else you're really `flying blind' > >Thanks, I'll check it out. > >Very truly yours >Yaser Doleh >Yaser@Doleh.Com > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 07:24:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21917 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:24:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA21904 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:24:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA14539 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:24:16 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603121524.KAA14539@rk.ios.com> Subject: SCO bin.compat. - slight problem. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:24:16 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, I have this problem with running my favorite binary from SCO , which is cscope , under FreeBSD. The thing is source code browser,which I have been using for a few years already. I find it _very useful when 1 want's to take a dive into source code,especially big chunk of it written by some1 else. But , the thing doesn't work a 100% under FreeBSD. It does start, builds cross-reference table and whatever files it needs to work, but behaves _very wierd when I try to control it ( it uses termlib). No matter what I type at the prompts, as soon as I press enter , the chars I typed just dissapear and looks like cscope itself sees none of my input,which makes it pretty much useless. I do have a valid /usr/lib/termlib/*/* file for my TERM type and I beleive SCO entries in /dev/*. Program doesn't complain about no errors - just flushes down the toilet everything I type :(( The same program does work 100% under BSDI 2.1, but I need it on my WS which runs FreeBSD. What could be the problem here ? I tried ^J instead of enter - with same results. Played with stty cs* and stuff - no luck there as well. It does recognize some commands though - for example "?" , shell escape . Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 07:52:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA24152 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from novell.com (sjf-ums.sjf.novell.com [130.57.10.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA24147 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from INET-SJF-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:49:24 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:57:40 -0800 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: mmead@Glock.COM, DARREND@novell.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, mmead@Glock.COM Subject: Re: homedir mirroring nightly, with an nfs overlay? - Reply Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk - Reply I haven't seen any explicit support of Coda for FreeBSD. I imagine the guys at CMU could have or allready have it up since BSD is a no brainer for the Coda port. The big question is since Coda is derived from AFS2 (Andrew File System), what are the copyright limitations of its distribution. Maybe I will bug the people at CMU for some details. Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 07:57:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA24471 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:57:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from novell.com (prv-ums.Provo.Novell.COM [137.65.40.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA24457 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from INET-PRV-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:55:54 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:01:49 -0700 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, rmallory@wiley.csusb.edu Subject: AFS client for freebsd? - Reply Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would suspect that Transarc probably does not have AFS for FreeBSD (Actually, I really don't know). But, I think getting CMU's Coda (an AFS2 derivative) working would be hot. Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. P.S. Check out http://www.cs.cmu.edu/ for details. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 08:06:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA25096 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:06:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25090 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA14843 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:06:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199603121606.JAA14843@boom.vars.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #974 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:24:27 PST." <199603120724.XAA10173@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=mime; x-action=signclear; x-originator=05448C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:06:19 -0700 From: Eric Varsanyi Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> I am also thinking of really hooking the driver to the ethernet code >> and just convert tokenring<->ethernet in my driver. So to the machine >> it will look like this is an ethernet driver but to the network >> it will look like its a tokenring. >> >> Yaser Doleh You also need to deal with 802.5 source routing and the various flavors of broadcast on token ring (local ring, single-route, and all-routes). Token ring MAC headers are of variable length so it makes sense to create a new set of routines to deal with it (if_tokensubr.c for instance) instead of trying to use the ethernet routines and tranlate in the driver. An easy way to handle the source route<->IP mappings is to use arp to cache the source routes (don't forget to update the 'netstat' and 'arp' commands too). For arp on a multi-ring network it seems the best strategy is to cache the source route to the first reply received and ignore the next few (the first route found this way should be the shortest). - -Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBMUWg+jxFdSMFRIw5AQGifgP9HHmBRWJFPoKasEaymOZbT5TB+gTjm/z0 vhDQZ63HDyjhhdSSYBH8Vyuvht00PpI3m4XZkrcGWonil45zVgJBdVN+CmPDJwUk GhmAwzJBRGALZhRio1fD7zP7P4FEUTC64xOcIMQejyZ5AoZyBy5BmRGDb2uP493z hrEaJzOdTKk= =JZgk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 08:11:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA25420 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA25407 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:11:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA00316 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:11:20 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603121611.LAA00316@rk.ios.com> Subject: Silly me :( To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:11:20 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm sorry - looks like there was no problem with SCO emulation for "cscope" program - for those who read my last letter here. I did ktrace/kdump and the problem was that cscope was trying to open tmp file in /usr/tmp - which wasn't there. After I created it - everything went just fine ! Sorry again :( Had to dig deeper :) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 08:37:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA27360 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA27354 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:37:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA19228; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:35:53 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603121635.KAA19228@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: homedir mirroring nightly, with an nfs overlay? To: mmead@Glock.COM (matthew c. mead) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:35:52 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603112104.QAA08491@neon.Glock.COM> from "matthew c. mead" at Mar 11, 96 04:04:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've got two systems up now that I have home directories on, but one of > them will not always be operating in FreeBSD. The machine "neon" is my desktop > machine, and houses my home directory. The machine "Glock" is a machine that > can always be counted on to be in FreeBSD, and I'd like to have access to my > home directory there as well. What I want to do is mirror the files from neon > to Glock nightly, so that I have a <24 hour old copy on Glock to use in case > the copy on neon is not available due to me being in another operating system. > > What I'd like to do is have an nfs mounted copy available when neon is up, > but have the local copy mirrored the previous night available in the event that > neon times out. Is this possible with amd or standard nfs mounting? Thanks > for any suggestions! If you do not restrict yourself to nfs, which is probably a bad thing to do, remember that "rdist" is your friend. :-) I used to use it in years long ago to do essentially what you are doing. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 09:47:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00992 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00983 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA18365 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:42:01 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma018349; Tue Mar 12 11:41:34 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA10953; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:21:16 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA23065; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:32:23 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603121732.LAA23065@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Rashid Karimov cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SCO bin.compat. - slight problem. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:24:16 EST." <199603121524.KAA14539@rk.ios.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:32:23 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just ran cscope from SCO 3.2v4.2 under FreeBSD-current from 3/5, (ttyp1@jake)$ uname -a FreeBSD jake 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #2: Tue Mar 5 16:04:40 CST 1996 erich@jake:/usr/src/sys/compile/JAKE i386 I had to steal /usr/lib/terminfo/** from my SCO box. And it also seems that I had to make my xterm window one line longer, for the cursor positioning stuff to work. If I run under syscons, I've gotta set my TERM=at386. eric. Rashid Karimov writes: > Hi there folx, > > > I have this problem with running my favorite > binary from SCO , which is cscope , under FreeBSD. > The thing is source code browser,which I have been > using for a few years already. I find it _very useful > when 1 want's to take a dive into source code,especially > big chunk of it written by some1 else. > > > But , the thing doesn't work a 100% under FreeBSD. It > does start, builds cross-reference table and whatever > files it needs to work, but behaves _very wierd when > I try to control it ( it uses termlib). > > No matter what I type at the prompts, as soon as I > press enter , the chars I typed just dissapear and > looks like cscope itself sees none of my input,which > makes it pretty much useless. > > > I do have a valid /usr/lib/termlib/*/* file for my > TERM type and I beleive SCO entries in /dev/*. > Program doesn't complain about no errors - just > flushes down the toilet everything I type :(( > > > The same program does work 100% under BSDI 2.1, but > I need it on my WS which runs FreeBSD. What could > be the problem here ? > > > I tried ^J instead of enter - with same results. > Played with stty cs* and stuff - no luck there > as well. > > It does recognize some commands though - for example > "?" , shell escape . > > > > Rashid > > -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 09:52:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01395 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01375 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA02458 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:23:50 +0100 Message-Id: <199603121723.SAA02458@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: SCO bin.compat. - slight problem. To: rashid@rk.ios.com (Rashid Karimov) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 18:20:15 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603121524.KAA14539@rk.ios.com>; from "Rashid Karimov" at Mar 12, 96 10:24 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have this problem with running my favorite > binary from SCO , which is cscope , under FreeBSD. > The thing is source code browser,which I have been > using for a few years already. I find it _very useful > when 1 want's to take a dive into source code,especially > big chunk of it written by some1 else. Well, I've seen your followup message, but I thought you might be interested in an alternative. I'm working here at SNI, and of course they use cscope, but I have so far found it to be of only limited use: for one thing, it's too slow. You might like to compare Emacs etags. You create a tags file, rather like cscope.out, typically by entering $ cd /usr/src/sys $ find . -name "*.[csh]" | xargs etags -a Within emacs, you use the find-tag command, (typically bound to M-.) to search a tag. By default, it will look for a name where the cursor is, so if you just place your cursor on a function name and press M-. Emacs will open the file with the first occurrence of the name and position the cursor on the definition. About the only problem I have is that it doesn't handle data definitions. If somebody knows how to do that too, I'll be grateful. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 11:49:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA09960 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:49:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (www.borderware.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09950 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:49:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20491-1>; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:03:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:49:06 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: NFS errors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar12.150321est.20491-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I get a non detailed error message in my /var/log/messages file with this exports file below... ----------- /etc/exports ----------- /DiskLess/usr /DiskLess/rootfs/altair -maproot=0:0 altair.kcis.com /home /usr /var -maproot=0:0 aldebaran.kcis.com ------------------------------------ Here is the listing of the directories... drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 512 Mar 11 23:38 /home drwxr-xr-x 17 root wheel 512 Mar 4 23:20 /usr drwxr-xr-x 19 root wheel 512 Jan 23 21:21 /var drwxrwxr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jan 23 21:21 /DiskLess drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jan 23 21:22 /DiskLess/rootfs drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512 Jan 23 21:21 /DiskLess/usr ------- /var/log/messages ---------- Mar 11 23:33:47 antares mountd[84]: Bad exports list line /home /usr ------------------------------------ Can some kind sole help...??? Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 12:26:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA11930 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:26:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA11923 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:26:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15161(1)>; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:19:01 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05268; Tue, 12 Mar 96 15:19:02 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09418; Tue, 12 Mar 96 15:18:57 EST Message-Id: <9603122018.AA09418@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Bill Fenner Cc: Michael Smith , lyndon@orthanc.com (Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tcpdump changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 09 Mar 1996 09:29:11 PST." <96Mar9.092925pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:18:55 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I spoke with the authors and they indicated the asciizing packets is a security (mis)feature. I'm not thrilled about it, but that's they're position... -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 12:52:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA14916 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:52:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14911 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA04893; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:48:11 +1100 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:48:11 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603122048.HAA04893@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, lehey.pad@sni.de Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I still think that some standards are good, and the emacs characters >> have become something of a defacto standard for editing and history >> manipulation. I've seen the emacs bindings in everything from bash to >> the Motif text widget (as well as many others) and think that we should >> follow suit. I don't know about you guys, but ^P and ^N are now wired >> directly into my fingers! :-) >Seriously, Bruce (or anybody else): what kind of editing? The main >objection I have to vi-style editing in shells is that it is so >ESC-intensive. I suspect it's also more difficult to program, though Some of the emacs bindings are OK. I have ^P, ^N and ^R wired into my fingers too. Emacs bindings, or at least their implementation in libreadline, have problems with ESC too. E.g., escape sequences don't work while searching - hitting up arrow on an ANSI terminal terminates the search and enters [ A. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 12:55:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15215 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:55:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15208 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06431; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:51:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603122051.NAA06431@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? To: kenh@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (Ken Hornstein) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:51:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: rmallory@wiley.csusb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603120514.AAA24840@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> from "Ken Hornstein" at Mar 12, 96 00:15:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I know Transarc does not currently support FreeBSD, but does > >anyone have any information of them planning to write an AFS lkm > >for FreeBSD? They have clients for netbsd, and just about every > >other os including OS2 and NT.. > > It's worth pointing out that Transarc didn't have anything to do with the > NetBSD AFS client - that was done by John Kohl and others at MIT. > > If you have a source license, I would think it wouldn't be that hard to > port the source-code diffs (I looked at the code myself, for other reasons). > They're pretty straightforward. If you don't .... try to find someone > who does :-) The port is trivial if you: 1) Unset the vmio flag 2) Hack the VOP_READDIR cookie code (FreeBSD and NetBSD differ here; see the NFS server code for specifics). Note that the NetBSD port is only available as binary, and only then if you have an AFS license already. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 12:57:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15538 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (root@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.10.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15533 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmsun.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (kenh@cmsun.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.10.4]) by ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA28530; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:57:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199603122057.PAA28530@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:51:41 MST." <199603122051.NAA06431@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:57:44 -0500 From: Ken Hornstein Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Note that the NetBSD port is only available as binary, and only then >if you have an AFS license already. Not quite accurate. _If_ you have a source license, _and_ your site has signed the separate Source Contrib license agreement, then you can look at the source to the NetBSD port. I speak from personal experience. :-) --Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 12:58:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15598 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:58:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15593 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06456; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:54:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603122054.NAA06456@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:54:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, erich@lodgenet.com, lehey.pad@sni.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <621.826609907@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 11, 96 09:51:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >Does anybody object to > > >emacs-style only, if the cursor functions work? > > > > Of course everyone would object :-). Mine uses wordstar style control > > keys and cursor keys for editing and Turbo Debugger style function keys > > I still think that some standards are good, and the emacs characters > have become something of a defacto standard for editing and history > manipulation. I've seen the emacs bindings in everything from bash to > the Motif text widget (as well as many others) and think that we should > follow suit. I don't know about you guys, but ^P and ^N are now wired > directly into my fingers! :-) Hm. For me, the cursor keys are wired into my fingers. And since the kernel debugger is expected to run on the console anyway... I find it suprising that people want to use anything besides cursor keys (note: the vi ^H ^J ^K ^L *are* the cursor keys on Televideo, ADM, Adds-VP, and HZ terminals -- that's the reason they are there... they are historical legacy). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 13:08:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16481 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16474 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:08:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06519; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:05:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603122105.OAA06519@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:05:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603120723.IAA19225@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 12, 96 08:20:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've come in on the end of this. This horrible thing that passes for > a mail system here has swallowed a day's worth of mail again, and > didn't even regurgitate it. If anybody else has sent opinions, please > resend them. Are you the originator of this thread? Did you miss my "small essay and bogus screen shot" for WINICE? Do I need to resend it to you? > Seriously, Bruce (or anybody else): what kind of editing? The main > objection I have to vi-style editing in shells is that it is so > ESC-intensive. I suspect it's also more difficult to program, though > I don't suppose that's the real problem. If anybody has any > alternatives to emacs-style bindings, please let me know a detailed > description of how it should work. 4DOS/DOSKey/WinICE/FANSIConsole/DCL/TPU/EDT/tcsh/ksh(the real one)/etc. all use: 1) Cursor up: previous command (repeat to the limits of the command recall buffer). 2) Cursor down: next command (assuming a previous cursor up -- otherwise default command input line). 3) Partial command, then cursor up/down: command previous/next beginning with partial command as line prefix. 4) Abort key (^C): discard edits, new input line. 5) Backspace: delete character to left of cursor 6) Delete: delete character to right of cursor 7) Insert: toggle insertion/overstrike; default overstrike (on VMS programs, can change default as a preference... on 2 of the DOS programs, the previous in-ude mode is remembered -- the toggle is global, not per entry line). 8) Home key: beginning of line 9) End key: end of line The one problem is the "backspace deletes left" for terminals where the cursor left key emits "^H". In these situations, the BS key becomes synonymous with the cursor left key and the "delete character to left of cursor" function is lost. Extensions: scroll left/right in line for long lines instead of damaging editability (ie: don't screw up like VMS did). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 13:14:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16981 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16974 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06559; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:11:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603122111.OAA06559@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #974 To: ewv@boom.bsdi.com (Eric Varsanyi) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:11:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603121606.JAA14843@boom.vars.com> from "Eric Varsanyi" at Mar 12, 96 09:06:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Why is it that MetaMail never recognizes your messages as displayable? Every one of your messages so far have required "1 -- display it as text". Other people's MIME memssage don't blow chunks like this... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 13:55:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA22016 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:55:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA22006 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:55:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06667; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:51:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603122151.OAA06667@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? To: kenh@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (Ken Hornstein) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:51:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603122057.PAA28530@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> from "Ken Hornstein" at Mar 12, 96 03:57:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Note that the NetBSD port is only available as binary, and only then > >if you have an AFS license already. > > Not quite accurate. > > _If_ you have a source license, _and_ your site has signed the separate > Source Contrib license agreement, then you can look at the source to the > NetBSD port. I speak from personal experience. :-) Ah, yes. But the interesting case is running the NetBSD code without changes on FreeBSD. Unless you are volunteering to hack the AFS code and recontribute a FreeBSD port? 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 14:51:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA26735 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26724 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:51:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA27943; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:51:35 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA09990; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:51:35 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id XAA06009; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:29:17 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603122229.XAA06009@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: NFS errors To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:29:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <96Mar12.150321est.20491-1@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 12, 96 02:49:06 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jerry Kendall wrote: > > > I get a non detailed error message in my /var/log/messages file with > this exports file below... The error message is detailed enough. :) > ----------- /etc/exports ----------- ... > /home /usr /var -maproot=0:0 aldebaran.kcis.com > Mar 11 23:33:47 antares mountd[84]: Bad exports list line /home /usr I suppose /home, /usr, and /var aren't all part of the root file system? Each line in /etc/exports must refer to exactly one physical file system. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 15:06:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA28332 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA28325 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:06:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA29635; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:45:51 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603122315.JAA29635@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: NFS errors To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:45:51 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Mar12.150321est.20491-1@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 12, 96 02:49:06 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jerry Kendall stands accused of saying: > > I get a non detailed error message in my /var/log/messages file with > this exports file below... > > ----------- /etc/exports ----------- > /DiskLess/usr /DiskLess/rootfs/altair -maproot=0:0 altair.kcis.com > /home /usr /var -maproot=0:0 aldebaran.kcis.com > ------------------------------------ > > Here is the listing of the directories... > > drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 512 Mar 11 23:38 /home > drwxr-xr-x 17 root wheel 512 Mar 4 23:20 /usr > drwxr-xr-x 19 root wheel 512 Jan 23 21:21 /var > drwxrwxr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jan 23 21:21 /DiskLess > drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jan 23 21:22 /DiskLess/rootfs > drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512 Jan 23 21:21 /DiskLess/usr > > ------- /var/log/messages ---------- > Mar 11 23:33:47 antares mountd[84]: Bad exports list line /home /usr > ------------------------------------ > > Can some kind sole help...??? Are any of /home, /usr or /var on the same filesystem? > Jerry -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 15:31:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA01030 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:31:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01022 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id PAA10098; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:30:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:30:47 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: mwilson@flash.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Stacksize In-Reply-To: <199603121442.IAA20127@defiant.flash.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 12 Mar 1996 mwilson@flash.net wrote: > stacksize 65536 kbytes > > Here is my unlimit on a Solaris box: > > stacksize 2097148 kbytes limit stacksize whatever. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 15:50:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA02869 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from skypirates.constantchange.on.ca (DreamLabs.ConstantChange.on.ca [198.96.119.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA02856 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mitayai@localhost) by skypirates.constantchange.on.ca (8.7.4/8.6.12) id SAA00409; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:51:25 GMT Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:51:25 +0000 () From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe To: Terry Lambert cc: Eric Varsanyi , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #974 In-Reply-To: <199603122111.OAA06559@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Why is it that MetaMail never recognizes your messages as displayable? > > Every one of your messages so far have required "1 -- display it as text". > > Other people's MIME memssage don't blow chunks like this... > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Pine tells me his messages are "Application/PGP" which it doesnt know how to display sine i doubt it is in my mailcap. :) -Mit ShyOne Bearer of the Bag O' Stuff Engineer, 08.ZIYA of the SkyPirate Fleet ------------------------------------------ Email: shyone@constantchange.on.ca WWW: http://spindly.constantchange.on.ca IRC: ShyOne on channel #spindly ------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 17:37:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA14390 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 17:37:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com ([206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA14378 Tue, 12 Mar 1996 17:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA16462; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 17:37:34 -0800 Message-Id: <199603130137.RAA16462@austin.polstra.com> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Elfkit-1.0.1 announcement Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 17:37:34 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've just returned from a 10-day holiday, and I see that my "elfkit" has gotten some mention in connection with Søren and Peter's recent progress on ELF support in the FreeBSD kernel. So I guess I might as well announce it officially, and describe what it is and what it isn't. Against my better judgement, I'm sending this announcement to both -current (because that's where I think it belongs) and -hackers (because that's where Jordan suggested I send it). Please confine followups to -current only. WHAT IS ELFKIT? Elfkit is a collection of tools for compiling and executing ELF programs under FreeBSD-2.1.0-RELEASE and later. It consists of: * Patches for gcc-2.7.2, to make it support ELF under FreeBSD. * Patches for binutils-2.6, to make it support ELF under FreeBSD. * Patches for libc from FreeBSD-2.1.0-RELEASE, to support building it as an ELF shared library. * An ELF dynamic linker. * A user-level test program that can invoke the dynamic linker to load and execute ELF programs under FreeBSD. (The user-level test program is probably superfluous, now that the kernel can directly load and execute ELF executables.) WHAT CAN I DO WITH IT? You can compile and link arbitrary programs, as long as they use only libc. (The other libraries aren't converted yet.) The output of the linker is a standard, dynamically-linked ELF executable. You can also build ELF shared libraries. WHO SHOULD USE ELFKIT? The current release of elfkit is intended for people who want to help develop ELF support under FreeBSD. If you simply want to run ELF programs, and don't want to learn anything else about it, come back in a few months. WHAT IS THE STATUS OF ELFKIT? Elfkit is a work-in-progress, not a finished product. If you use it, you should be prepared to deal with some disruption when new releases come out. For example, the installation procedure and the directory structure could change in future releases. Of course, I intend to stabilize such things as soon as is practical. But it's not practical yet -- we're still too early in the development cycle. WHERE CAN I GET IT? ftp://ftp.polstra.com/pub/FreeBSD/elfkit/elfkit-1.0.1.tar.gz WHAT ELSE WILL I NEED? * gcc-2.7.2.tar.gz, from any GNU site. * binutils-2.6.tar.gz, from any GNU site. * The sources for libc, from FreeBSD-2.1.0-RELEASE. If at all possible, you should get your libc sources from one of the FreeBSD mirror sites, or from the 2.1.0 CD-ROM. If that's absolutely impossible for you, you can get it from: ftp://ftp.polstra.com/pub/FreeBSD/elfkit/libc-2.1.0.tar.gz Please try to avoid getting the libc sources from ftp.polstra.com. Its network connection is only a 56K frame relay link. WHERE DO I SEND BUG REPORTS AND COMMENTS? elfkit-bugs@polstra.com HOW CAN I HELP? Help is welcome, especially in the areas of library conversion and testing. At this time, only libc has been converted to support ELF. Eventually, all the other libraries will have to be converted as well. Libc is by far the most difficult; I expect that most of the other libraries will simply need to be recompiled using the elfkit tools, and tested. This sounds easy, but nevertheless is it work that somebody is going to have to spend time doing. As more ELF libraries become available, there will be an increasing need for testing -- i.e., building larger and larger parts of the FreeBSD system as ELF executables, and trying them out. Send mail to elfkit-bugs@polstra.com if you'd like to help. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 18:04:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA16826 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net ([204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16819 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:04:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA22225; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:06:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:06:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Good PCI card? (evidently 3c590 support no workee?) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I need a good PCI 10baseT card to use in a router. I had to 3c590's, but one is an A1 rev card (which the kernel moans about, why, what's wrong with 'em?), and on the rev C card, it gripes about "EPROM didn't come ready". But the probes find vx0 and vx1. Neither are configurable however... Any ideas? I've been pretty much a 3com shop, but can bail to anything else. The card should probably be supported by -stable, but I could run -current if need be. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 18:55:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21286 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:55:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21278 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id SAA18156 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:54:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:54:42 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199603130254.SAA18156@ref.tfs.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: -stable not compiling? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been trying to compile -stable but doc/usd/13.viref fails miserably saying "groff: can't find `DESC' file" and "fatal error: invalid device `lp' " also at one stage it looked like the index was being generated to the screen rather than to a file, but As I'm doing -current and -stable at the same time (On different machines) I can't remember which that was.. from cvs tree supped from sup2.freebsd.org last night (2AM PST ) P.S. when is sup2 updated from sup? and how long should I wait till I can be sure of getting a fix I want if I saw it committed? julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 19:09:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA22786 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:09:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from research.att.com (ns.research.att.com [192.20.225.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22781 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:09:33 -0800 (PST) From: ankur@research.att.com Message-Id: <199603130309.TAA22781@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from slocum by ns; Tue Mar 12 22:06:37 EST 1996 Subject: Voice recording To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (freebsd-hackers AAFreeBSD) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:06:59 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am working on voice transmission and need to know what changes need some help regarding for voice recording. I can play the audio files using 'cat file.au > /dev/audio'. However, 'cat audio > filename' does not record the voice of the person speaking on the microphone connected to the SoundBlaster 16 card. Can somebody help me regarding the ioctl's that I need to do before I can start reading from /dev/audio or is there some other procedure involved in voice recording rather than a simple cat /dev/audio. Ankur Jain ankur@research.att.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 19:29:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA24148 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (root@neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA24140 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA01379 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:29:07 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603130329.WAA01379@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: jaz drive To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:29:07 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have an IOmega jaz drive on the way, and I had heard about the problems with it sleeping after 30 minutes. I know that current fixes this problem, and would actually like to go to current, but when I tried last evening it died in a number of places, most of which I could fix, but one in ypupdated or something caused an error I couldn't sort out. Is it easier to grab the changes that allow the jaz drive to work properly and roll them into 2.1.0R or is it easier to get current running? Could someone detail either? Thanks! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 19:33:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA24525 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (root@neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA24518 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:33:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA01419; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:33:09 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603130333.WAA01419@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:33:09 -0500 (EST) Cc: kenh@cmf.nrl.navy.mil, terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603122151.OAA06667@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 12, 96 02:51:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > >Note that the NetBSD port is only available as binary, and only then > > >if you have an AFS license already. > > Not quite accurate. > > _If_ you have a source license, _and_ your site has signed the separate > > Source Contrib license agreement, then you can look at the source to the > > NetBSD port. I speak from personal experience. :-) > Ah, yes. But the interesting case is running the NetBSD code without > changes on FreeBSD. > Unless you are volunteering to hack the AFS code and recontribute a > FreeBSD port? 8-) 8-). Ok, so AFS is a legal ball of worms, and I don't feel like shelling out $18,000 dollars for a distributed OS. Has anyone looked into porting CODA? You can get source for NetBSD. Does anyone know if this is just a client or a server/client pair? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 19:57:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25863 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:57:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (root@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.10.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA25843 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from excalibur.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (kenh@excalibur.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.6.17]) by ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id WAA00454; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:57:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199603130357.WAA00454@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> To: "matthew c. mead" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:33:09 EST." <199603130333.WAA01419@neon.Glock.COM> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:56:48 -0500 From: Ken Hornstein Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok, so AFS is a legal ball of worms, and I don't feel >like shelling out $18,000 dollars for a distributed OS. Has >anyone looked into porting CODA? You can get source for NetBSD. >Does anyone know if this is just a client or a server/client >pair? Funny you mention this - I was just looking at Coda tonight :-) It looks like the source is available for both the server and client. It's based on AFS 2, with some interesting additions. It lacks some of the features of later versions of AFS, but I would say that it's a pretty good free replacement for AFS. Mind you, I haven't actually tried _using_ it :-) --Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 20:00:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA26002 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:00:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs.utah.edu (cs.utah.edu [128.110.4.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA25946 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 19:59:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from bottles.cs.utah.edu by cs.utah.edu (8.6.12/utah-2.21-cs) id UAA28732; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:59:49 -0700 Received: by bottles.cs.utah.edu (8.6.10/utah-2.15-leaf) id UAA27295; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:59:47 -0700 From: sclawson@bottles.cs.utah.edu (steve clawson) Message-Id: <199603130359.UAA27295@bottles.cs.utah.edu> Subject: Re: Good PCI card? (evidently 3c590 support no workee?) To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 20:59:47 MST Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: ; from "Jaye Mathisen" at Mar 12, 96 6:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jaye Mathisen uttered: > I need a good PCI 10baseT card to use in a router. > > I've been pretty much a 3com shop, but can bail to anything else. > > The card should probably be supported by -stable, but I could run > -current if need be. I've been very happy with the SMC EtherPower Combo and 10/100 cards. The driver for these cards (or for that matter, any card with the DEC DC21040, DC21041, or DC21140 chips) is very good and the driver works well in -stable. =) steve -- // stephen clawson sclawson@cs.utah.edu // university of utah From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 20:34:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA27760 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:34:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27746 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rmallory@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id UAA12183; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:38:40 -0800 From: Rob Mallory Message-Id: <199603130438.UAA12183@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? To: kenh@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (Ken Hornstein) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:38:40 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603122057.PAA28530@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> from "Ken Hornstein" at Mar 12, 96 03:57:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > _If_ you have a source license, _and_ your site has signed the separate > Source Contrib license agreement, then you can look at the source to the > NetBSD port. I speak from personal experience. :-) ...back to the drawing board; ..dont have either this week. It would be nice; I bet there is someone [listening] out there with the ability and resources to do one though...;) as the admin who introduced me to AFS would say "AFS is slicker than Snail Snot" Rob M From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 20:46:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA28283 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA28277 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA06556; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:45:50 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:45:50 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199603130445.XAA06556@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <4i56pf$rqj@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >> >I know Transarc does not currently support FreeBSD, but does >> >anyone have any information of them planning to write an AFS lkm >> >for FreeBSD? They have clients for netbsd, and just about every >> >other os including OS2 and NT.. >> >> It's worth pointing out that Transarc didn't have anything to do with the >> NetBSD AFS client - that was done by John Kohl and others at MIT. >> >> If you have a source license, I would think it wouldn't be that hard to >> port the source-code diffs (I looked at the code myself, for other reasons). >> They're pretty straightforward. If you don't .... try to find someone >> who does :-) >The port is trivial if you: >1) Unset the vmio flag >2) Hack the VOP_READDIR cookie code (FreeBSD and NetBSD differ > here; see the NFS server code for specifics). >Note that the NetBSD port is only available as binary, and only then >if you have an AFS license already. Your wrong, the NetBSD source patches are also available, I know because I have a patched source tree, where I attempted a quick port to FreeBSD a couple months back. It mostly worked, with some serious problems I just didnt (and still dont :( ) have the time to track down. Im also very green when it comes to the vm kernel stuff, and thats were I'm encountering all of my problems. I'll re-port my changes to a newer 2.2 snap when I get a chance and see if something I've done stupidly falls out. What vmio flag? -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 21:06:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA29462 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 21:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA29455 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 21:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA00856; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:06:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:06:41 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: new malloc/libc... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There was a spattering of discussion about the new malloc existing in -current, I seem to have lost track of it in the noise; did anybody followup on the suggestion of putting a compiled libc on the ftp site? Or are we limited to simply compiling it ourselves? -Brandon Gillespie- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 22:24:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA03445 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:24:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03435 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07187; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:23:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199603130623.BAA07187@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: Ken Hornstein cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:06:18 EST." <199603121506.KAA26495@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:23:50 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >I've seen the AFS 4 source code at a previous employer, and it's > >pretty scary in there, a maze of #ifdefs, all alike.. > > Your previous employer must have been a time traveller, as AFS 3.4a was just > released not very long ago :-). Too bad that even in the future they never > cleaned up the source code; it's still as ugly now as it is then. Ooops.. I meant to say that I've seen the AFS 3 sources whilst at the University of Maryland. Hey, we whacked on it some too and ran it on about 100 NeXT workstations... It was still pretty scary. Even more so for folks using AIX.. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 22:32:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA04073 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:32:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04066 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07208; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:32:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199603130632.BAA07208@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Good PCI card? (evidently 3c590 support no workee?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:06:01 PST." Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:32:45 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm using a Linksys PCI ethernet card, which has a DECchip 21040 ethernet controller on board. Cost me about $120. It does 10Base-T and thinnet. Works out of the box with the 'de' ethernet driver. I'm using a recent SNAP, but I don't think there's any reason why earlier versions wouldn't work. louie > I need a good PCI 10baseT card to use in a router. I had to 3c590's, but > one is an A1 rev card (which the kernel moans about, why, what's wrong > with 'em?), and on the rev C card, it gripes about "EPROM didn't come ready". > > But the probes find vx0 and vx1. Neither are configurable however... > > Any ideas? > > I've been pretty much a 3com shop, but can bail to anything else. > > The card should probably be supported by -stable, but I could run > -current if need be. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 22:45:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA04739 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:45:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (omega.physik.fu-berlin.de [130.133.3.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04722 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mordillo (lislip.physik.fu-berlin.de [130.133.3.126]) by omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id HAA23074 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:45:46 +0100 (MET) Received: (from news@localhost) by mordillo (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA05304; Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:37:23 +0100 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Path: graichen From: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Graichen) Newsgroups: local.freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: DISKLESS.HOWTO Date: 11 Mar 1996 16:37:22 GMT Organization: his FreeBSD box :-) Lines: 34 Distribution: local Message-ID: <4i1ks2$51a@mordillo.physik.fu-berlin.de> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.physik.fu-berlin.de X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gabriele Cecchetti (gabriele@studenti.ing.unipi.it) wrote: : I'm setting up a diskless workstation for clients running X with : netscape; server is a Pentium 100 with 16Mb RAM and several Gb of : Disk and clients are Pentium 100 with 8 Mb RAM or 486DX4-100. : My clients boot well but when I try to start X or with some other (more : trivial) operation the system reboot. Probably my problems come from 'swap'. i had the same problem until i created a swapfile of exact the required size using "dd if=/dev/zero of=swapfilename bs=1k count=the_size_from_cfg" and not an empty file like said in the HOWTO ... : I've tryed to create an swap file of rigth size but that make system : unstable (It reboot almost immediately due page fault). : So, in which way I've to initialise the swap file ? : Why /dev/?? (setup'ed by netboot or nb8390 ) and /dev/vn0c (setup'ed by : vnconfig) are not the same ? you don't have to use vnconfig at all - the /dev/?? is ok : Any suggestion and ideas or a full documentation (DISKLESS.HOWTO) will be : appreciated. i plan to write some docs about this but don't have the time until summer t -- thomas graichen graichen@mail.physik.fu-berlin.de graichen@FreeBSD.org perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away antoine de saint-exupery From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 22:49:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA05031 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from truly.indecent.com (root@truly.indecent.com [204.95.227.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05001 Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from truly (partek@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by truly.indecent.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA00435; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:49:21 -0500 Message-ID: <31466FF0.73592E90@iquest.net> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:49:20 -0500 From: David Anderson Organization: IPI Computer Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 1.3.68 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Installing on >1024 cyl IDE drives Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to install FreeBSD on a P90 with 2 1.5GB Western Digital drives. I keep getting errors to the effect of that it's not able to write to the HD or something. I have the drive geometry set the same as it is in the BIOS, and have LBA shut off. I had FreeBSD installed on the system perfectly with LBA on, but once the install was done and it went to reboot, the drives refused to initialize during the BIOS check.. Shut LBA off and they're working again, but I'm running into this problem now.. Anyone have a clue? Thanks, Dave -- +-------------------+--------------+--------------------+ | David Anderson | Tech Support | partek@america.com | +-------------------+--------------+--------------------+ | PSS InterNet Services, Inc. | | 168 North Beach Street Daytona Beach FL 32114 | | Phone: 904 253 7100 Fax: 904 253 1006 | +-------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 23:51:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA09528 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:51:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09496 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA07744; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:50:46 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA14621; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:50:46 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id IAA09736; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:26:35 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603130726.IAA09736@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Stacksize To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:26:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: mwilson@flash.net Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Mar 12, 96 03:30:47 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As invalid opcode wrote: > > stacksize 65536 kbytes > > > > Here is my unlimit on a Solaris box: > > > > stacksize 2097148 kbytes > > limit stacksize whatever. You should better read his message first. He told that this was already `unlimited'. The stack and data segment size have maximal values even when set to unlimited, it's my understanding that this is the maximal size that would fit into the appropriate page tables. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 12 23:53:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA09807 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:53:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09796 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:53:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I2A8TLIDCW000SRT@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:55:47 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA15831; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:58:47 +0100 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:58:47 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: Voice recording In-reply-to: <199603130309.TAA22781@freefall.freebsd.org> from <"ankur@research.att.com"@Mar> To: ankur@research.att.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199603130758.IAA15831@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I am working on voice transmission and need to know what changes > need some help regarding for voice recording. > > I can play the audio files using 'cat file.au > /dev/audio'. > However, 'cat audio > filename' does not record the voice > of the person speaking on the microphone connected to the > SoundBlaster 16 card. > > Can somebody help me regarding the ioctl's that I need to do > before I can start reading from /dev/audio or is there some > other procedure involved in voice recording rather than a simple > cat /dev/audio. What does cat /dev/sndstat yield? > > > Ankur Jain > ankur@research.att.com > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 00:09:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA11413 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 00:09:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ter2.fl.net.au (ter2.fl.net.au [203.63.198.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA11407 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 00:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiger.fl.net.au (adf@tiger.fl.net.au [203.63.198.11]) by ter2.fl.net.au (2.0/adf) with SMTP id TAA11893 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:08:57 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960314050707.00a38f84@mail.fl.net.au> X-Sender: adf@mail.fl.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:07:07 -1000 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Andrew Foster Subject: 'freezing' in -release Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, My system sort of freezes using a freshly installed 2.1.0-Release (make world done). Basically telnet's do not close, but I type has no bearing on the app. Apps running continue to do so, and I can open a port to 8080 (cache) but not to a port that appears to be lower than 1024. I haven't tried this on all ports, but it does appear to be the case (inetd dead maybe?). Pings return. I can switch vty's on the console but not login. Control Alt Delete doesn't work. My only option is to reset the machine. I'm installing -stable now to see if it fixes it. Anyone got any ideas ? Thanks,. Andrew Foster First Link Internet Services ----------- Andrew Foster Sydney, Australia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 00:21:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA12692 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 00:21:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12653 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 00:21:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA08809; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:21:11 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA14764; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:21:10 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA11101; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:09:12 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603130809.JAA11101@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:09:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com (Brandon Gillespie) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Brandon Gillespie" at Mar 12, 96 10:06:41 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brandon Gillespie wrote: > There was a spattering of discussion about the new malloc existing in > -current, I seem to have lost track of it in the noise; did anybody > followup on the suggestion of putting a compiled libc on the ftp site? > Or are we limited to simply compiling it ourselves? Pick just the src/lib/libc/stdlib/malloc.c file, and compile it into a separate libmalloc, if this is what you need. Providing a binary version of this would most likely cause more net traffic than what you're causing by getting the source file. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 01:51:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA18891 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA18875 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id BAA26553; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:45:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:45:22 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers , mwilson@flash.net Subject: Re: Stacksize In-Reply-To: <199603130726.IAA09736@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As invalid opcode wrote: > > > limit stacksize whatever. > > You should better read his message first. He told that this was > already `unlimited'. > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE No, he said it was set to 65536K, which is more than enough for him to even have to use limit. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 02:37:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA20874 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 02:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from dawn.ww.net (dawn.ww.net [193.124.73.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA20799 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 02:35:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from alexis@localhost) by dawn.ww.net (8.6.12/alexis 2.5) id NAA03076 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:35:15 +0300 Message-Id: <199603131035.NAA03076@dawn.ww.net> Subject: supping CVS home tree To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:35:12 +0300 (MSK) From: "Alexis Yushin" Reply-To: alexis@ww.net (Alexis Yushin) X-Office-Phone: +380 65 2 26.1410 X-Home-Phone: +380 65 2 27.0747 X-NIC-Handle: AY23 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings, Is it enough to sup CVS tree with cvs-supfile to be at the edge of -stable, -current with ports tree? Or do I need to have both CVS tree -current and -stable? alexis -- Is everybody in? Is everybody in? The ceremony is about to begin... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 02:58:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA21621 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 02:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA21602 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 02:58:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA25407 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:57:42 +0100 Message-Id: <199603131057.LAA25407@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 11:54:08 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603122105.OAA06519@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 12, 96 2:05 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I've come in on the end of this. This horrible thing that passes for >> a mail system here has swallowed a day's worth of mail again, and >> didn't even regurgitate it. If anybody else has sent opinions, please >> resend them. > > Are you the originator of this thread? I don't think so. I just mentioned that I was planning to significantly expand ddb when I get away from this place. > Did you miss my "small essay > and bogus screen shot" for WINICE? Looks like it. You mentioned WINICE, and I asked for more details. I definitely didn't see anything that looked like a screen shot. > Do I need to resend it to you? Yes, please. >> Seriously, Bruce (or anybody else): what kind of editing? The main >> objection I have to vi-style editing in shells is that it is so >> ESC-intensive. I suspect it's also more difficult to program, though >> I don't suppose that's the real problem. If anybody has any >> alternatives to emacs-style bindings, please let me know a detailed >> description of how it should work. > > 4DOS/DOSKey/WinICE/FANSIConsole/DCL/TPU/EDT/tcsh/ksh(the real one)/etc. > all use: > > 1) Cursor up: previous command (repeat to the limits of the > command recall buffer). OK. Alternative: ^P > 2) Cursor down: next command (assuming a previous cursor up -- > otherwise default command input line). OK: Alternative: ^N > 3) Partial command, then cursor up/down: command previous/next > beginning with partial command as line prefix. I don't see the need for this. It's different from other implementations, and you can get this effect by going to the beginning of a line and typing in the text. > 4) Abort key (^C): discard edits, new input line. OK, I suppose. > 5) Backspace: delete character to left of cursor OK. > 6) Delete: delete character to right of cursor OK, I suppose. Alternative: ^D. > 7) Insert: toggle insertion/overstrike; default overstrike (on > VMS programs, can change default as a preference... on 2 of > the DOS programs, the previous in-ude mode is remembered -- > the toggle is global, not per entry line). I hadn't planned on insert mode at all. Does anybody else have any ideas on this? > 8) Home key: beginning of line OK, I suppose. Alternative: ^A > 9) End key: end of line OK, I suppose. Alternative: ^E In addition, I'd definitely want: 10) ^B/left arrow: character left 11) ^F/right arrow: character right 12) ^K: erase to end of line 13): ^Y: yank erased text In addition, I think I'd like to have: 14) Alt-D: delete word forward 15) Alt-F: forward word 16) Alt-B: Backward word > The one problem is the "backspace deletes left" for terminals where > the cursor left key emits "^H". In these situations, the BS key > becomes synonymous with the cursor left key and the "delete character > to left of cursor" function is lost. I think that, under these circumstances, I'd opt for the cursor left function being "lost" (i.e. only available via ^B). Recall that we're talking console only here, of course, so the difference is moot. > Extensions: scroll left/right in line for long lines instead of damaging > editability (ie: don't screw up like VMS did). I *hate* scroll. IMHO, the right (and more difficult) way is to wrap lines. There's also the question of how often a line of more than 80 characters will be needed. I'll send out a separate message on other features that are beginning to occur to me. If anybody has any thoughts about this subject, please reply. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 03:05:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA22110 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 03:05:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgate.flevel.co.uk (fgate.flevel.co.uk [194.6.101.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA22104 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 03:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from graham@localhost) by fgate.flevel.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA20627 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:07:21 GMT Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:07:21 GMT From: Graham Breach Message-Id: <199603131107.LAA20627@fgate.flevel.co.uk> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Multi-port serial cards Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know of any support for : DIGI or ARNET PC8E 8-port serial card. Information please to : root@flevel.co.uk Thanks very much Graham Breach From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 04:34:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA27151 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 04:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27146 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 04:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0twplX-0003weC; Wed, 13 Mar 96 04:34 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA22078; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:34:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Brandon Gillespie cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:06:41 MST." Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:34:51 +0000 Message-ID: <22076.826720491@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There was a spattering of discussion about the new malloc existing in > -current, I seem to have lost track of it in the noise; did anybody > followup on the suggestion of putting a compiled libc on the ftp site? > Or are we limited to simply compiling it ourselves? I will probably make another stab at convincing the gang that "phkmalloc" should be put in 2.1, but last time I tried there were some concerns about all the broken code it exposed :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 05:58:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA29527 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 05:58:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (www.borderware.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA29518 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 05:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20486-1>; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:59:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:58:17 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: NFS errors In-Reply-To: <199603122229.XAA06009@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-Id: <96Mar13.085910est.20486-1@janus.border.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > > As Jerry Kendall wrote: > > > > > > I get a non detailed error message in my /var/log/messages file with > > this exports file below... > > The error message is detailed enough. :) > > > ----------- /etc/exports ----------- > ... > > /home /usr /var -maproot=0:0 aldebaran.kcis.com > > > Mar 11 23:33:47 antares mountd[84]: Bad exports list line /home /usr > > I suppose /home, /usr, and /var aren't all part of the root file > system? Each line in /etc/exports must refer to exactly one physical > file system. > I don't think I would agree with that, /DiskLess/usr AND /DiskLess/rootfs/altair ARE in the same '/' filesystem... It does not complain about them... AND they work... ----------- /etc/exports ----------- /DiskLess/usr /DiskLess/rootfs/altair -maproot=0:0 altair.kcis.com /home /usr /var -maproot=0:0 aldebaran.kcis.com ------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 06:12:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA00439 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 06:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA00432 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 06:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA11903; Wed, 13 Mar 96 09:11:38 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id OAA21221; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:11:38 GMT Message-Id: <199603131411.OAA21221@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:34:51 EDT. <22076.826720491@critter.tfs.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:11:37 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There was a spattering of discussion about the new malloc existing in > > -current, I seem to have lost track of it in the noise; did anybody > > followup on the suggestion of putting a compiled libc on the ftp site? > > Or are we limited to simply compiling it ourselves? > > I will probably make another stab at convincing the gang that "phkmalloc" > should be put in 2.1, ... I think it would be an extremely bad idea to re-release 2.1 for any reason. If you want to put the new malloc in an officially released version before 2.2, then call it 2.1.1 or 2.1.phk or something, but don't start rewriting history. As an alternative, why not release a package that replaces the libc with a libc that has phkmalloc? That way people who want it can get it and it's an explicit step that can be undone if necessary. FreeBSD packages can be backed out, can't they? >... but last time I tried there were some concerns about > all the broken code it exposed :-) Broken code is broken code. That's why you have ports, right? Since gnumalloc is similar in some respects to phkmalloc, I would tend to believe that much of the broken software is being fixed by/for the Linux crowd, and by the time 2.2 is officially released the latest- and-greatest versions of most software should be less broken than they are now. Wishful thinking perhaps?!? -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 06:47:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA01816 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 06:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA01809 Wed, 13 Mar 1996 06:47:48 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Lehey Message-Id: <199603131447.GAA01809@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: NFS errors To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 06:47:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers In-Reply-To: <96Mar13.085910est.20486-1@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 13, 96 08:58:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > > > > > As Jerry Kendall wrote: > > > > > > > > > I get a non detailed error message in my /var/log/messages file with > > > this exports file below... > > > > The error message is detailed enough. :) > > > > > ----------- /etc/exports ----------- > > ... > > > /home /usr /var -maproot=0:0 aldebaran.kcis.com > > > > > Mar 11 23:33:47 antares mountd[84]: Bad exports list line /home /usr > > > > I suppose /home, /usr, and /var aren't all part of the root file > > system? Each line in /etc/exports must refer to exactly one physical > > file system. > > > > I don't think I would agree with that, /DiskLess/usr AND > /DiskLess/rootfs/altair ARE in the same '/' filesystem... > > It does not complain about them... AND they work... > > ----------- /etc/exports ----------- > /DiskLess/usr /DiskLess/rootfs/altair -maproot=0:0 altair.kcis.com > /home /usr /var -maproot=0:0 aldebaran.kcis.com > ------------------------------------ Why don't you agree with that? That's what he's saying. Each line in /etc/exports must contain names from one and only one file system. /DiskLess/usr and /DiskLess/rootfs/altair fulfill this condition, so mountd doesn't complain about them. /home /usr and /var don't fulfill this condition, so mountd complains. You don't need to include the mount point of the file system in the entry. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 07:18:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA03277 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA03269 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA15178 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:13:08 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma015172; Wed Mar 13 09:12:46 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA18750; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:39:32 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA01215; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:52:03 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603131452.IAA01215@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Brandon Gillespie , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:34:51 GMT." <22076.826720491@critter.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:52:03 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A week or so ago I spoke with the guys at Xinside, they were holding their release of Motif because of a memory leak with malloc, the code ran fine with BSDi and Linux, but had a leak with FreeBSD. Is this phkmalloc or the original malloc which apparently is in 2.1 I thought phkmalloc was mainstream months ago, but maybe not. eric. Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >> There was a spattering of discussion about the new malloc existing in >> -current, I seem to have lost track of it in the noise; did anybody >> followup on the suggestion of putting a compiled libc on the ftp site? >> Or are we limited to simply compiling it ourselves? > >I will probably make another stab at convincing the gang that "phkmalloc" >should be put in 2.1, but last time I tried there were some concerns about >all the broken code it exposed :-) > >-- >Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. >http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. >whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc >. >Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. > -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 07:22:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA03586 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA03581 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA15199 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:17:09 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma015196; Wed Mar 13 09:16:47 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA18936 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:56:42 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA01661 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:09:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603131509.JAA01661@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ibcs2 and microsoft a.out's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:09:14 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk anyone have an idea of how go about getting this sucker to run? it's the microsoft assembler from an sco box, if this and it's type run I can create dos binaries on FBSD. (ttyp0@jake)$ file /compat/ibcs2/bin/masm /compat/ibcs2/bin/masm: Microsoft a.out separate pure segmented word-swapped V2.3 V3.0 86 small model executable Large Text eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 07:24:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA03913 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:24:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA03892 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA15223 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:19:40 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma015221; Wed Mar 13 09:19:19 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA18822; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:46:05 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA01244; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:58:36 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603131458.IAA01244@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Greg Lehey cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:54:08 +0700." <199603131057.LAA25407@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:58:36 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey writes: >>> Seriously, Bruce (or anybody else): what kind of editing? The main >>> objection I have to vi-style editing in shells is that it is so >>> ESC-intensive. I suspect it's also more difficult to program, though >>> I don't suppose that's the real problem. If anybody has any >>> alternatives to emacs-style bindings, please let me know a detailed >>> description of how it should work. I'm definitly in favor of emacs-bindings, even the vi lovers here hate the vi-mode in ksh,bash,... > >> 4) Abort key (^C): discard edits, new input line. > >OK, I suppose. kill (^u), even works when typing a passwd, I use this one lots. werase (^w), this one is pretty handy too. oh, yea please remember that this is a kernel debugger, it's not supposed to be too friendly :) > >Greg > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 07:33:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA04383 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:33:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabal.io.org (cabal.io.org [198.133.36.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA04378 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:33:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.4/8.7.4) id KAA01709; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:32:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:32:10 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: # of sem undo structs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > While working with INN1.4-unoff3 and some patches, it makes mention of > some limitations under HPUX 8.0 that the number of semaphores that can > have undo structs associated with them is 30 or so. Is there a similar > limit under -current? If so, what option changes it? I haven't noticed any strange behaviour under 2.1R using the default semaphore limits. The only thing I increased was the maximum size of a shared memory segment. options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "SHMMAXPGS=1024" -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 07:51:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05426 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabal.io.org (cabal.io.org [198.133.36.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA05421 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:51:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.4/8.7.4) id KAA01750; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:50:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:50:27 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-hackers@Freebsd.ORG Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-Reply-To: <199603110043.QAA05845@geli.clusternet> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@Freebsd.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 10 Mar 1996, Russell L. Carter wrote: > > As an aside, my best guess is that all of those benchmarks on > http://www.intel.com and all of the lmbench linux numbers were made > with fixed, but not purchasable, motherboards. I don't suppose we could bring ftp.cdrom.com down for a couple of hours to run some benchmarks on it? :) Just put up a notice saying it is down for maintenance and performance tuning. :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 07:55:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05619 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:55:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05613 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA03216; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:57:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:57:36 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603131557.IAA03216@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-Reply-To: <199603131411.OAA21221@exalt.x.org> References: <22076.826720491@critter.tfs.com> <199603131411.OAA21221@exalt.x.org> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > There was a spattering of discussion about the new malloc existing in > > > -current, I seem to have lost track of it in the noise; did anybody > > > followup on the suggestion of putting a compiled libc on the ftp site? > > > Or are we limited to simply compiling it ourselves? > > > > I will probably make another stab at convincing the gang that "phkmalloc" > > should be put in 2.1, ... > > I think it would be an extremely bad idea to re-release 2.1 for any > reason. If you want to put the new malloc in an officially released > version before 2.2, then call it 2.1.1 or 2.1.phk or something, but > don't start rewriting history. I think you misunderstand. The next release of FreeBSD will be 2.1.5, but the CVS tag is the 2.1 tag. > Broken code is broken code. That's why you have ports, right? Since > gnumalloc is similar in some respects to phkmalloc Actually, GNU-malloc doesn't whine like Poul's does. Poul's whines about freeing non-malloc'd memory and other (good) errors which GNU-malloc doesn't. > I would tend to > believe that much of the broken software is being fixed by/for the > Linux crowd, and by the time 2.2 is officially released the latest- > and-greatest versions of most software should be less broken than they > are now. Wishful thinking perhaps?!? Wishful thinking. Look at the *huge* number of bugs in the GNU libc package. The GNU folks haven't released a new version since '94, but H.J. continues to fix huge numbers of bugs in it and releases a new version (with brand new bugs) every couple of months or so. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 08:01:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA05808 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:01:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from listserv.gmd.de (listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA05796 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:01:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603131601.IAA05796@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from vm.gmd.de by listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <3.4C779363@listserv.gmd.de>; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:55:08 +0100 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin MAILER@ESOC) by VM.GMD.DE (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 5624; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:57:14 +0100 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin VCAPUANO@ESOC) by VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2155; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:54:25 +0100 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 16:52:57 EWT From: Vincenzo Capuano Organization: ESA - European Space Agency Subject: Am7990.h vs. am7990.h To: freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I noticed that in isa/ic there are two files with the "same" name: Am7990.h and am7990.h. Are they both used ? Vincenzo --- Vincenzo Capuano European Space Agency - European Space Operations Centre vcapuano@vmprofs.esoc.esa.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 08:02:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA05866 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05860 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0twszy-000I8pC; Wed, 13 Mar 96 17:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0twsaj-00001eC; Wed, 13 Mar 96 16:35 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:35:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603131057.LAA25407@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 13, 96 11:54:08 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > In addition, I think I'd like to have: > > 14) Alt-D: delete word forward > 15) Alt-F: forward word > 16) Alt-B: Backward word Please remember, there is no ALT key on a serial console. Please make shure the debugger is usable on such a device .... hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 08:24:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA06785 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabal.io.org (cabal.io.org [198.133.36.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA06772 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:24:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.4/8.7.4) id LAA01786; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:22:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:22:36 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Barracuda + BT946C + heavy swap == deadlock? (was Re: Web server locks up...) In-Reply-To: <199602171548.JAA03588@freebsd.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [sorry, just getting back into this thread] On Sat, 17 Feb 1996, Mark Hittinger wrote: > > > From: Joe Greco > > To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) > > > typically 40 to 60 httpd's running. It exports a 4-gigabyte > > > filesystem containing access logs to client machines so our customers > > > can produce statistical reports. > > Is the 4 gig drive a Seagate barracuda? (yes for me, bt946c) Yes, at the time I was using a DEC DSP3053LS and a Seagate ST15150N also on a BT946C (PCI): [logs dated Feb 16 21:20:35] bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=10 bt0: version 4.25J, fast sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: targ 2 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: Using Strict Round robin scheme bt0 at 0x330 irq 10 on isa bt0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (bt0:0:0): "DEC DSP3053LS X442" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 511MB (1046532 512 byte sectors) sd0(bt0:0:0): with 3117 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 83 sectors/track (bt0:2:0): "SEAGATE ST15150N 0014" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(bt0:2:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) sd1(bt0:2:0): with 3712 cyls, 21 heads, and an average 107 sectors/track I have since switched to an NCR53c810 with one Segate Medallist ST51080N 1GB and three Quantum Grand Prix XP34301 4GB drives. Memory has also been increased from 64MB to 128MB and it handles our FTP/mirror archives now as well. No silent reboots or machine lockups yet in the 8 days since the switch. > Do you run alias ip's for 'virtual web sites'? (yes for me, a bunch) Yes, 34 of them on this machine. > What ethernet card do you run on the box? (3c509 isa for me) de0 rev 18 int a irq 12 on pci0:9 de0: DC21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:39:41:c8 > How large is your swap file? (256mb swap file) Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/sd0s1b 131072 7384 123624 6% Interleaved /dev/sd1s1b 131072 7408 123600 6% Interleaved Total 262016 14792 247224 6% > The reason I ask these questions is that other boxes running the same rev > of FreeBSD will not exhibit the problem at all. I am trying to find the > common thread. The disk/controller combination looks suspicious to me. I've got that 4GB Seagate in a non-production mail server right now, but also using an NCR controller there (back to using the tried-and-true). > I will see the following kinds of processes hang (unkillable) > in "D+" state via ps. Innd, Cern httpd, and ps. > > Ps seems to have it happen a lot. "ps -ax" will hang whereas simply "ps" > will not. When "ps -ax" hangs, who and top will run ok. No comment from me... I can't even get a login on the machine to do this. :( -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 08:29:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA07023 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA07012 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA00683; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:29:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199603131629.IAA00683@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: "Russell L. Carter" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-hackers@Freebsd.ORG Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:50:27 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:29:32 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@Freebsd.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Sun, 10 Mar 1996, Russell L. Carter wrote: >> >> As an aside, my best guess is that all of those benchmarks on >> http://www.intel.com and all of the lmbench linux numbers were made >> with fixed, but not purchasable, motherboards. > > I don't suppose we could bring ftp.cdrom.com down for a couple of >hours to run some benchmarks on it? :) Just put up a notice saying >it is down for maintenance and performance tuning. :) In a word: "NO". -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 08:31:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA07136 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA07131 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0twtSK-0003wTC; Wed, 13 Mar 96 08:31 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA22337; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:31:21 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:11:37 EDT." <199603131411.OAA21221@exalt.x.org> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:31:19 +0000 Message-ID: <22335.826734679@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I will probably make another stab at convincing the gang that "phkmalloc" > > should be put in 2.1, ... > > I think it would be an extremely bad idea to re-release 2.1 for any > reason. If you want to put the new malloc in an officially released > version before 2.2, then call it 2.1.1 or 2.1.phk or something, but > don't start rewriting history. I didn't even think about rewriting 2.1. I should probably have written "-stable" instead... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 08:33:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA07304 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:33:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA07299 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:33:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0twtUp-0003wTC; Wed, 13 Mar 96 08:33 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA22362; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:33:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: Brandon Gillespie , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:52:03 CST." <199603131452.IAA01215@jake.lodgenet.com> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:33:51 +0000 Message-ID: <22360.826734831@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > A week or so ago I spoke with the guys at Xinside, they were > holding their release of Motif because of a memory leak with malloc, > the code ran fine with BSDi and Linux, but had a leak with FreeBSD. > Is this phkmalloc or the original malloc which apparently is in 2.1 > I thought phkmalloc was mainstream months ago, but maybe not. > > eric. The malloc in 2.1 doesn't do >anything< to conserve memory, a fact than can easily be confused with a memory leak. phkmalloc is >not< in 2.1. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 09:01:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA09972 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:01:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA09958 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA19366 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 18:00:42 +0100 Message-Id: <199603131700.SAA19366@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 17:57:07 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: ; from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Mar 13, 96 4:35 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > >> In addition, I think I'd like to have: >> >> 14) Alt-D: delete word forward >> 15) Alt-F: forward word >> 16) Alt-B: Backward word > > Please remember, there is no ALT key on a serial console. Please make shure > the debugger is usable on such a device .... Well, the Alt- commands are "nice to have", not "must have", and most serial connections go to another machine, but if you have a suggestion for alternative combinations, I'll certainly give them full consideration. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 09:03:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10081 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10076 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA19490 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 18:03:17 +0100 Message-Id: <199603131703.SAA19490@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: erich@lodgenet.com (Eric L. Hernes) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 17:59:42 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603131458.IAA01244@jake.lodgenet.com>; from "Eric L. Hernes" at Mar 13, 96 8:58 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Greg Lehey writes: > >>>> Seriously, Bruce (or anybody else): what kind of editing? The main >>>> objection I have to vi-style editing in shells is that it is so >>>> ESC-intensive. I suspect it's also more difficult to program, though >>>> I don't suppose that's the real problem. If anybody has any >>>> alternatives to emacs-style bindings, please let me know a detailed >>>> description of how it should work. > > I'm definitly in favor of emacs-bindings, even the vi lovers here > hate the vi-mode in ksh,bash,... Noted. I suppose we'll find out if anybody disagrees with you :-) >>> 4) Abort key (^C): discard edits, new input line. >> >> OK, I suppose. > > kill (^u), even works when typing a passwd, I use this one lots. > werase (^w), this one is pretty handy too. I don't really want ^w, because other Emacs-like editors use this for deleting the region. Emacs would use Alt-D for this one; any other suggestions? > Oh, yea please remember that this is a kernel debugger, it's not > supposed to be too friendly :) Oops, in that case it won't be a good kernel debugger. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 09:35:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11894 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11876 Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA00873; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:35:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199603131735.JAA00873@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: core@freebsd.org Subject: WC changing service providers From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:35:20 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI, from freefall:/etc/motd: ** Freefall will be off the net for part of the day as it is moved ** to the new T1. DNS will be messed up for awhile, too, as the ** IP addresses are all changing. Freefall will be at 204.216.27.4. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 09:55:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA12944 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from novell.com (nj-ums.fpk.novell.com [147.2.128.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA12927 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from INET-NJ-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:03:56 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:11:21 -0500 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: phk@critter.tfs.com, erich@lodgenet.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... - Reply Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At Winter Usenix 96, a researcher from AT&T had implemented a new malloc that looked great. Has any one got the sources and tried it? The URL was given at the conference. I would look it up, but I let a fellow engineer borrow my proceedings, and I haven't got them back yet. Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 10:18:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14372 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14367 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA08657; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:13:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603131813.LAA08657@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: AFS client for freebsd? To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:13:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603130445.XAA06556@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Mar 12, 96 11:45:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The port is trivial if you: > > >1) Unset the vmio flag > > >2) Hack the VOP_READDIR cookie code (FreeBSD and NetBSD differ > > here; see the NFS server code for specifics). > > >Note that the NetBSD port is only available as binary, and only then > >if you have an AFS license already. > > Your wrong, the NetBSD source patches are also available, I know because I have > a patched source tree, where I attempted a quick port to FreeBSD a couple > months back. It mostly worked, with some serious problems I just didnt (and > still dont :( ) have the time to track down. Im also very green when it comes > to the vm kernel stuff, and thats were I'm encountering all of my problems. > I'll re-port my changes to a newer 2.2 snap when I get a chance and see if > something I've done stupidly falls out. > > What vmio flag? The vmio flag that, if unset, makes out I/O (mostly) behave like NetBSD's. Grep for "doingvmio" in your source tree. The main remaining difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD after that is the VOP_READDIR "cookie" crap. The NFS code contains #ifdef's that enumerate all of the differences. Make the per-FS cookie crap act like NetBSD's, and the NetBSD AFS will be a happy VOP_READDIR consumer. Really, we should murder the cookie crap by seperating directory reads into two operations (per the discussion on NFS with Doug Rabson and myself on -hackers and -current -- see the list archives). But then, of course, it would need a native port to run the binary module version of AFS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 10:22:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14647 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14642 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:22:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA08684; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:18:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603131818.LAA08684@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:18:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603131057.LAA25401@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 13, 96 11:54:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Did you miss my "small essay and bogus screen shot" for WINICE? > > Looks like it. You mentioned WINICE, and I asked for more details. I > definitely didn't see anything that looked like a screen shot. > > > Do I need to resend it to you? > > Yes, please. [ sent under seperate cover ] > > 8) Home key: beginning of line > > OK, I suppose. Alternative: ^A > > > 9) End key: end of line > > OK, I suppose. Alternative: ^E VMS background? 8^). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 10:24:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14849 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:24:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14844 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA08701; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:20:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603131820.LAA08701@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:20:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: lehey.pad@sni.de, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Mar 13, 96 04:35:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 14) Alt-D: delete word forward > > 15) Alt-F: forward word > > 16) Alt-B: Backward word > > Please remember, there is no ALT key on a serial console. Please make shure > the debugger is usable on such a device .... "Alt" is a meta-key. How about "ESC-D"/"ESC-F"/"ESC-B"? This is how meta is handled on a lot of systems... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 10:29:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA15040 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:29:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA15035 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:29:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA08718; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:24:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603131824.LAA08718@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:24:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: erich@lodgenet.com, brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <22360.826734831@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 13, 96 04:33:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The malloc in 2.1 doesn't do >anything< to conserve memory, a fact than > can easily be confused with a memory leak. > > phkmalloc is >not< in 2.1. Poul-Henning's law: A sufficiently primitive malloc is indistinguishable from a memory leak. I want credit in your memoirs. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 11:30:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18030 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18021 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA23198; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:25:05 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199603131925.UAA23198@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:25:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: erich@lodgenet.com, brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <22360.826734831@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 13, 96 04:33:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The malloc in 2.1 doesn't do >anything< to conserve memory, a fact than Not only that, it actually tends to allocate a full page for every small block (from ~ upwards) that you malloc(), and this just to hold a 32-bit value. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 11:44:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18826 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18808 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0twwTC-0004IUC; Wed, 13 Mar 96 11:44 PST Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:44:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Microsoft's Web page now has an entire section called "Get ISDN" encouraging consumers to install ISDN lines, and making it just a matter of completing a fill-out form and they will forward your request to your phone company. Presumably they will also sign you up to Microsoft Network, I didn't try it. :-) Anyway, my question is this: Other than the ISDN telephones at work, I have no experience with ISDN, but it does sound like something I would eventually want. It looks like I may be receiving a free ISDN Internet connection through work, and even a free ISDN adapter, but I will have to pay for the line installation myself. The Microsoft page has a lot of information on ISDN, but I think I'll have to take a lot of it with a grain of salt, for example, the section on "provisioning": >"ISDN is a very powerful and flexible service, providing support for >solutions as diverse as PC connectivity, burglar alarm monitoring, and >virtual PBX telephone services. There are hundreds of options possible on >an ISDN line. The power and flexibility of ISDN can make it a very complex >process to get configured just right. > If you request an ISDN line through the Get ISDN Now facility on >this web site, your line will be configured by default for connection to a >Windows-based PC and you can avoid the complicated provisioning process >altogether. " Now, the idea of configuring the ISDN for a "Windows-based PC" sounds like typical Microsoft-speak, but is the provisioning process as difficult as MS makes it out to be if I don't go through them? Also, I just checked FreeBSD's ISDN support as of -current, and it only supports two "Dr. Neuheus" brand internal ISDN adapters! Does this mean that, given a choice, I should ask for an external ISDN modem? If so, which brands are recommended for use with FreeBSD? Also, am I correct to assume that an external ISDN modem is treated just like a regular Hayes-compatible modem, or does it require special kernel support? Thanks in advance (this info should be included in the FreeBSD handbook or FAQ, BTW..). ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 11:48:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA19157 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:48:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA19144 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA28180; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:51:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:51:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: latest -SNAP problems. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Neither 2.2 snaps will let me install a Pacific TimeZone. The screen flashes very quickly, and it no workee. The vx0 device could probably be added to the generic kernel. Running /stand/sysinstall to install packages fails, it says it can't find the "INDEX" file, using ftp.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 12:03:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20109 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20099 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA28271; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:05:39 -0800 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:05:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 3c590 driver problems. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 1) On power-up, the first time the system boots, the kernel reports that the 2 3c590's are early rev defective adapters. After a reboot w/o power cycling, the message disappears. 2) Kernel has vx0 and vx1 configured, but no amount of massaging will make vx1 actually do anything. Only vx0 will configure and function. Needless to say, not good for routing. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 12:18:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA21116 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21094 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id XAA15071 for freebsd.org!hackers; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:16:20 +0300 Organization: SPb State University Received: (from root@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA00227 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:14:00 +0300 From: Alexey Pialkin Message-Id: <199603131914.WAA00227@localhost> To: freebsd.org!hackers@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:13:59 +0000 (WET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I want to know more about the FreeBSD development project and want to be a participant in it. Pl e-mail the details me.. -- /====================================U _a' /( / Alexey Pialkin N ~~ _}\ \( - / Internet: root@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru I \(,_(,\\ / FidoNet: 2:5030/247 X ._>, _>,``==> From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 12:42:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA22523 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:42:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from whyy.org (jehrenkrantz@[199.234.236.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22516 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jehrenkrantz@localhost) by whyy.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA27273; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:44:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:44:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff Ehrenkrantz To: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe cc: Terry Lambert , Eric Varsanyi , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #97 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI, In Pine - Viewattached then save then use your editor! ..je On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe wrote: > On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > Why is it that MetaMail never recognizes your messages as displayable? > > > > Every one of your messages so far have required "1 -- display it as text". > > > > Other people's MIME memssage don't blow chunks like this... > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > Pine tells me his messages are "Application/PGP" which it doesnt know how > to display sine i doubt it is in my mailcap. :) > > -Mit > > ShyOne > Bearer of the Bag O' Stuff > Engineer, 08.ZIYA of the SkyPirate Fleet > ------------------------------------------ > Email: shyone@constantchange.on.ca > WWW: http://spindly.constantchange.on.ca > IRC: ShyOne on channel #spindly > ------------------------------------------ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 12:52:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23196 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23167 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA02751 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:52:23 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA21242 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:52:22 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id VAA12444 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:38:12 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603132038.VAA12444@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:38:11 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603131411.OAA21221@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Mar 13, 96 09:11:37 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > I will probably make another stab at convincing the gang that "phkmalloc" > > should be put in 2.1, ... > > I think it would be an extremely bad idea to re-release 2.1 for any > reason. :-) ``...should be put into the RELENG_2_1_0 branch'' Of course, nobody is going to re-roll 2.1. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 12:52:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23243 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23230 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:52:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA02728 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:52:05 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA21235 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:52:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id VAA12287 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:20:09 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603132020.VAA12287@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Stacksize To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:20:08 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Mar 13, 96 01:45:22 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As invalid opcode wrote: > > > limit stacksize whatever. > > > > You should better read his message first. He told that this was > > already `unlimited'. > No, he said it was set to 65536K, which is more than enough for him to > even have to use limit. As i wrote: read his message first. Carefully. My disk is better than your brain :^) mw> Message-Id: <199603121442.IAA20127@defiant.flash.net> mw> From: mwilson@flash.net mw> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org mw> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 1996 08:42:42 +0000 mw> Subject: Stacksize mw> I am needing to increase the stacksize on a FreeBSD 2.1 system. Here mw> is my current limit after a unlimit: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ mw> mw> cputime unlimited mw> filesize unlimited mw> datasize 131072 kbytes mw> stacksize 65536 kbytes mw> coredumpsize unlimited mw> memoryuse unlimited mw> descriptors 2088 mw> memorylocked 61460 kbytes mw> maxproc 1043 -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 12:52:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23265 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23255 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:52:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA02755; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:52:25 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA21243; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:52:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id VAA12457; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:39:50 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603132039.VAA12457@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: NFS errors To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:39:50 +0100 (MET) Cc: jerry@border.com Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603131447.GAA01809@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 13, 96 06:47:48 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > > Each line in /etc/exports must refer to exactly one physical > > > file system. > > I don't think I would agree with that, /DiskLess/usr AND > > /DiskLess/rootfs/altair ARE in the same '/' filesystem... > Why don't you agree with that? That's what he's saying. Additional note: Jerry, provide us with the output of /sbin/mount (along with the contents of /etc/exports), and we will be able to tell you what should be there. By now, you failed to provide us this information. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 12:53:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23338 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23333 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA12707 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:53:41 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA02746 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:52:21 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA21241 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:52:21 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id VAA12403 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:35:47 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603132035.VAA12403@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 21:35:46 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603131057.LAA25407@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 13, 96 11:54:08 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > In addition, I think I'd like to have: > > 14) Alt-D: delete word forward > 15) Alt-F: forward word > 16) Alt-B: Backward word Alt-D is ``ESC D'', right? > > The one problem is the "backspace deletes left" for terminals where > > the cursor left key emits "^H". In these situations, the BS key > > becomes synonymous with the cursor left key and the "delete character > > to left of cursor" function is lost. > > I think that, under these circumstances, I'd opt for the cursor left > function being "lost" (i.e. only available via ^B). Recall that we're > talking console only here, of course, so the difference is moot. Huh? The console can run on a (not known to DDB) serial terminal! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 13:24:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA25920 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:24:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25907 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA03408 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:21:38 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA21508 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:21:37 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id WAA12755 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:07:14 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603132107.WAA12755@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:07:14 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603131700.SAA19366@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 13, 96 05:57:07 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > >> 14) Alt-D: delete word forward > >> 15) Alt-F: forward word > >> 16) Alt-B: Backward word > > > > Please remember, there is no ALT key on a serial console. Please make shure > > the debugger is usable on such a device .... > > Well, the Alt- commands are "nice to have", not "must have", and most > serial connections go to another machine, but if you have a suggestion > for alternative combinations, I'll certainly give them full > consideration. A prepended ESC, just like in emacs or other emacs-alike editing modi. Either syscons as pcvt (optional on PCVT_META_ESC) do even produce this sequence for Alt-. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 13:35:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26711 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26702 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA29156; Wed, 13 Mar 96 21:35:29 GMT Received: by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA283582928; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:35:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:35:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199603132135.AA283582928@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> From: Sean Kelly To: jehamby@lightside.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (message from Jake Hamby on Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:44:24 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jake" == Jake Hamby writes: Jake> Also, I just checked FreeBSD's ISDN support as of -current, Jake> and it only supports two "Dr. Neuheus" brand internal ISDN Jake> adapters! Does this mean that, given a choice, I should ask Jake> for an external ISDN modem? Actually, I think your best bet is to get an external ISDN bridge or router. Ascend makes some nice models for home and small office use. Basically, you plug the ISDN line into one end (they have integrated NT1s) and the other end plugs into your LAN. You don't need to worry about FreeBSD supporting the hardware. You do need to worry about your provider at the other end. I haven't bought mine yet, but I'm considering this one: http://www.ascend.com/products/p25/p25index.html. Microsoft "Get ISDN"? I'd rather ask: Got Milk? :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 13:38:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26989 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26984 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:38:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA00746 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:37:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199603132137.NAA00746@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Java? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:37:21 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Say what is the status of Java for FreeBSD? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 13:47:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA27720 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:47:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.jrihealth.com (mail.jrihealth.com [204.249.32.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27714 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:47:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from library.pride.net (danp@library.pride.net [204.249.32.4]) by mail.jrihealth.com (8.3/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id QAA11094; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:50:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:50:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Polivy To: FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: 2.2-SNAP Problems... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey, I tried to install 2.2-SNAP on a new machine yesterday, but it had trouble with either the SCSI card or the HD. I then took my 2.1 Boot disks and the installation went perfectly...I was hoping to run the SNAP on it, so maybe if I can find the problem I can do that... But anyways, here is the problem: The computer is a P5-100, 40MB of RAM, 2gig Seagate HD (I think it is Seagate..) It is a Fast SCSI-2 drive, a NexStor SCSI-2 controller (PCI), Cirrus Logic PCI card (5436 chipset), ATAPI CDROM, and a sound card... The 2.2-SNAP recognizes the SCSI card at bootup, and it recognizes the Intel PCI chips and stuff.... Is there anything new in the ncr driver that might be the problem? Might it be the PCI chips? Or the HD? I can get more info if you need it... This may not be a -hackers question...sorry...but i think you people would know the best about this stuff :) Dan +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | JRI HIS MIS Systems Administrator/Tech Support | |////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////| | danp@busstop.org dpolivy@jri.org danp@library.pride.net | |\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\| | Check out JRI's Homepage at http://www.jri.org | |////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////| | For More Info about JRI Health, call 617.457.8150, | | EMail health@jri.org or check out http://www.jri.org/jrihealth | |\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\| | Check out my NEW [Moving] WWW page (still under construction) | | currently located at: http://server1.pride.net/~danp | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 14:00:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA28950 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:00:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28914 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:00:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA18511 ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:00:37 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA20577 ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:00:36 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.4/keltia-uucp-2.7) id WAA07494; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:53:15 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199603132153.WAA07494@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... To: erich@lodgenet.com (Eric L. Hernes) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:53:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603131452.IAA01215@jake.lodgenet.com> from "Eric L. Hernes" at "Mar 13, 96 08:52:03 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1762 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Eric L. Hernes said: > >> There was a spattering of discussion about the new malloc existing in > >> -current, I seem to have lost track of it in the noise; did anybody > >> followup on the suggestion of putting a compiled libc on the ftp site? phkmalloc is only in 2.2-CURRENT. Neither 2.0.5 nor 2.1.0 have it. Xside must be based on stable releases of FreeBSD so it is expected they found BSD malloc to be inefficient. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #6: Mon Mar 11 20:18:10 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 14:00:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA28968 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28934 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA18509 ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:00:36 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA20574 ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:00:35 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.4/keltia-uucp-2.7) id WAA07426; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:44:37 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199603132144.WAA07426@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: supping CVS home tree To: alexis@ww.net Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:44:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603131035.NAA03076@dawn.ww.net> from Alexis Yushin at "Mar 13, 96 01:35:12 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1762 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Alexis Yushin said: > Is it enough to sup CVS tree with cvs-supfile to be at the edge > of -stable, -current with ports tree? Or do I need to have both CVS Yes, the CVS tree has eveything from original import of 4.4BSD Lite. You don't have separate CVS tree bot -STABLE and -CURRENT. They are separate branch of the same CVS trees. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #6: Mon Mar 11 20:18:10 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 14:05:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29340 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29335 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA16967 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:00:24 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma016963; Wed Mar 13 16:00:05 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA24418; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:40:04 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA03347; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:52:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603132152.PAA03347@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, lehey.pad@sni.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:20:48 MST." <199603131820.LAA08701@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:52:31 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: >> >> Please remember, there is no ALT key on a serial console. Please make shure >> the debugger is usable on such a device .... > >"Alt" is a meta-key. > >How about "ESC-D"/"ESC-F"/"ESC-B"? This is how meta is handled on >a lot of systems... brought that one full circle, huh :) wasn't the original argument against cursor keys that they generated ESC-sequences that were intereted as `continue with all breakpoints deleted' but that could be changed too, if we're changing the whole user interface. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 14:42:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA01661 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01654 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA03816; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:41:02 +1100 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:41:02 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603132241.JAA03816@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: lehey.pad@sni.de, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> 4DOS/DOSKey/WinICE/FANSIConsole/DCL/TPU/EDT/tcsh/ksh(the real one)/etc. >> all use: >> >> 1) Cursor up: previous command (repeat to the limits of the >> command recall buffer). >OK. Alternative: ^P All cursor keys can't work on serial consoles (no termcap in the kernel). >> 3) Partial command, then cursor up/down: command previous/next >> beginning with partial command as line prefix. >I don't see the need for this. It's different from other It's a weak form of i-seach. Alternative: ^R/^S (or whatever is used to get around ^S being the stop char). >> 4) Abort key (^C): discard edits, new input line. >OK, I suppose. Alternative to ^U? In bash, ^C differs from ^U in that it prints a newline and discards the whole line. ^U only discards the part of the line to the left of the cursor. >> 6) Delete: delete character to right of cursor >OK, I suppose. Alternative: ^D. Not OK? ASCII Del does the same as ^H in bash, although this is only useful if the backspace key is misbound to Del. >> 7) Insert: toggle insertion/overstrike; default overstrike (on >> VMS programs, can change default as a preference... on 2 of >> the DOS programs, the previous in-ude mode is remembered -- >> the toggle is global, not per entry line). >I hadn't planned on insert mode at all. Does anybody else have any >ideas on this? Insert mode should be the default (as in bash). >> The one problem is the "backspace deletes left" for terminals where >> the cursor left key emits "^H". In these situations, the BS key >> becomes synonymous with the cursor left key and the "delete character >> to left of cursor" function is lost. >I think that, under these circumstances, I'd opt for the cursor left >function being "lost" (i.e. only available via ^B). Recall that we're >talking console only here, of course, so the difference is moot. Yes, there are plenty of differences for the console to discuss :-): - only broken terminals don't emit ^H for backspace :-) - ^H should mean delete character to the left of the cursor. This goes well with (ASCII) Del(ete) meaning to delete the character to the right of the cursor. Use left arrow or ^B to backspace without delete. - the pcvt console is broken and emits ASCII Del for backspace :-) - the syscons console correctly emits ASCII backspace for backspace. - the kernel debugger shouldn't depend on the kernel device drivers so the different behaviour of the console drivers should be irrelevant. BTW I noticed some bugs in pcvt after booting with -c to look at how the command line editor in the non-visual userconfig handles Backspace vs Delete: - I boot with a BIOS option to keep NumLock off. The NumLOck LED is off in userconfig but is apparently on in pcvt (Del gives `.'). - after hitting NumLock to get pcvt in sync with the LED (off), Del acts strangely. It has no effect until the next character, then the next character and/or the edit buffer are messed up. This may be the same problem that prevents the visual config from working at all. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 14:50:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02073 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:50:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02068 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA06168; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:49:42 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199603132249.JAA06168@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:49:42 +1100 (EST) Cc: erich@lodgenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603131703.SAA19490@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 13, 96 05:59:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> Seriously, Bruce (or anybody else): what kind of editing? The main >>>>> objection I have to vi-style editing in shells is that it is so >>>>> ESC-intensive. I suspect it's also more difficult to program, though >>>>> I don't suppose that's the real problem. If anybody has any >>>>> alternatives to emacs-style bindings, please let me know a detailed >>>>> description of how it should work. >> >> I'm definitly in favor of emacs-bindings, even the vi lovers here >> hate the vi-mode in ksh,bash,... > >Noted. I suppose we'll find out if anybody disagrees with you :-) I disagree (someone has to :-). I always use vi mode in tcsh. My fingers are definitely wired for vi. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 15:27:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03905 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA03899 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id RAA21342; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:11:07 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603132311.RAA21342@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:11:07 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Mar 13, 96 11:44:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello Jake, > Microsoft's Web page now has an entire section called "Get ISDN" > encouraging consumers to install ISDN lines, and making it just a matter > of completing a fill-out form and they will forward your request to your > phone company. Presumably they will also sign you up to Microsoft > Network, I didn't try it. :-) > > Anyway, my question is this: Other than the ISDN telephones at work, I > have no experience with ISDN, but it does sound like something I would > eventually want. It looks like I may be receiving a free ISDN Internet > connection through work, and even a free ISDN adapter, but I will have to > pay for the line installation myself. The Microsoft page has a lot of > information on ISDN, but I think I'll have to take a lot of it with a > grain of salt, for example, the section on "provisioning": > > >"ISDN is a very powerful and flexible service, providing support for > >solutions as diverse as PC connectivity, burglar alarm monitoring, and > >virtual PBX telephone services. There are hundreds of options possible on > >an ISDN line. The power and flexibility of ISDN can make it a very complex > >process to get configured just right. Go through that section and do s/ISDN/plain old telephone service/g and reread it and see how silly it sounds. You can hook up all sorts of garbage to an ISDN line, just as you can to an ordinary phone line (fax, answ. machines, cordless phones, modems, home remote control devices, burglar alarms, etc). The fact of the matter is that most people buy ISDN lines for a single purpose. > > If you request an ISDN line through the Get ISDN Now facility on > >this web site, your line will be configured by default for connection to a > >Windows-based PC and you can avoid the complicated provisioning process > >altogether. " > > Now, the idea of configuring the ISDN for a "Windows-based PC" sounds like > typical Microsoft-speak, but is the provisioning process as difficult as MS > makes it out to be if I don't go through them? It is slightly harder than dealing with an analog phone line. 1) You have to make sure that you and your telephone company are reading off of the same page. This is generally pretty easy. You need to know what kind of switch they use, if they provide 56k or 64k B channels, and some magic numbers that make it all work (I may be forgetting some things). They generally provide you a nice sheet with all this data. 2) You need to program it into the ISDN TA. In my opinion, it is just about as easy or difficult to configure an ISDN circuit as it is to set up a SLIP link. Very few things in this business are as simple as plugging it in and turning it on. Not even analog modems are THAT simple. ISDN setup is also much easier the second time around, because you have a better idea of how it works. > Also, I just checked FreeBSD's ISDN support as of -current, and it only > supports two "Dr. Neuheus" brand internal ISDN adapters! Does this mean > that, given a choice, I should ask for an external ISDN modem? If so, > which brands are recommended for use with FreeBSD? Also, am I correct to > assume that an external ISDN modem is treated just like a regular > Hayes-compatible modem, or does it require special kernel support? I like the Motorola devices. Having used the UTA/220 and the Bitsurfer Pro, I would recommend the BsP for casual use or the UTA/220 for ISP use. They can behave like analog modems and that is how I configure mine. I have a fellow with a 115k (2 B channel) connection into one of my border routers and at maximum bidirectional utilization, the 486DX2/50 router is running at about 6% busy. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 15:28:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA04023 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:28:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cygnus.ucdavis.edu (root@cygnus.ucdavis.edu [128.120.2.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04018 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (itchris@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cygnus.ucdavis.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02191; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:28:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199603132328.PAA02191@cygnus.ucdavis.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:44:24 PST" From: Chris Lambertus X-URL: http://cygnus.ucdavis.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:27:59 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Now, the idea of configuring the ISDN for a "Windows-based PC" sounds like > typical Microsoft-speak, but is the provisioning process as difficult as MS > makes it out to be if I don't go through them? No. It is very simple to get an ISDN line. You have what boils down to two options. One BRI (64Kbit) or two bonded BRI's (128Kbit). You call the phone company, and they will come in and install the line and give you the SPID numbers your ISDN modem needs to connect properly. > Also, I just checked FreeBSD's ISDN support as of -current, and it only > supports two "Dr. Neuheus" brand internal ISDN adapters! Does this mean > that, given a choice, I should ask for an external ISDN modem? If so, > which brands are recommended for use with FreeBSD? Also, am I correct to > assume that an external ISDN modem is treated just like a regular > Hayes-compatible modem, or does it require special kernel support? The simplest way to configure an ISDN device is by using an ISDN->Ethernet bridge. This is a box that plugs into your ISDN line on one end, and into your Ethernet on the other end. You can also get ISDN modems that plug into your serial port which are then used as point to point links (ppp, slip). I would stay away from internal ISDN cards. The support for them on anything other than 'doze is minimal at best. With an external box, you can also be assured that it'll move with your hardware should you change platforms. Also, I don't know where you're located, but Pacific Bell (california) has a good web page on ISDN. http://www.pacbell.com/Products/res_products.html Hope this helps. -Chris Christopher M. Lambertus | cmlambertus@ucdavis.edu IR Distributed Systems Security | Office: (916) 754-9022 University of California | Fax: (916) 752-9154 Davis, California 95616 | Gabbpuy! 4400 forever! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 15:57:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA05927 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05910 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA04762; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:35:29 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603140005.KAA04762@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ibcs2 and microsoft a.out's To: erich@lodgenet.com (Eric L. Hernes) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:35:29 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603131509.JAA01661@jake.lodgenet.com> from "Eric L. Hernes" at Mar 13, 96 09:09:14 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eric L. Hernes stands accused of saying: > > > anyone have an idea of how go about getting this sucker to run? > it's the microsoft assembler from an sco box, if this and it's type > run I can create dos binaries on FBSD. > > (ttyp0@jake)$ file /compat/ibcs2/bin/masm > /compat/ibcs2/bin/masm: Microsoft a.out separate pure segmented word-swapped > V2.3 V3.0 86 small model executable Large Text Errr. 'small model' means it's a 286 binary, not much chance of running that I suspect. Do you have to use MASM? You can build a cross-gcc toolchain for i386-go32 and build 386 DOS binaries with that; we do that here and it works just fine. As a bonus your DOS executables get a 32-bit flat address space and virtual memory 8) > eric. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 17:40:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA12189 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from cocoa.ops.neosoft.com (root@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com [206.109.5.227]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12183 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dbaker@localhost) by cocoa.ops.neosoft.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) id TAA15772; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:38:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:38:58 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Baker X-Sender: dbaker@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: A WEBMASTER has been found! In-Reply-To: <199603110807.JAA05424@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Please join me in welcoming Jake Hamby as > > FreeBSD's new WEBMASTER. > > Applause! Yah! The default welcome page looks great.. I'm just re-supping our FreeBSD web mirror, www2.freebsd.org to have all the latest changes. Daniel > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > Daniel Baker - Daniel@Cuckoo.COM "Uhhhhhhh, thank you, drive through please" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 17:43:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA12529 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12502 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id CAA20110 ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:43:27 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id CAA21294 ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:43:26 +0100 Received: (uucp@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.fr.net (8.6.11/fasterix-941011) with UUCP id CAA05606; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:29:57 +0100 Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.frmug.fr.net (8.7.4/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.7) id BAA11981; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:18:06 +0100 (MET) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199603140018.BAA11981@tetard.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org (hackers) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:18:04 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199603112226.XAA00383@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 11, 96 11:26:19 pm X-rene: Tu dois pas les avoir perdues, normalement. X-wing-fighter: et puis X-men, X-open, X-ta-mere... X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch écrit / writes: > > As michael butler wrote: > > > > How does one recover from the clobbered partition table that no longer > > exists after you try to install another drive with the 2.1 install disk ? > > By writing down the figures before clobbering it. Ahem -- I've had a bit of a run-in with 'clobbered partition tables' lately. Was related to the fact that I'd repartitioned my disk with swap at offset 0. First round: the first system crash dumped core... and wiped out disklabel, booteasy :-/ So I rewrite the disklabel. Second round: same story. But it was a bit more evil: my drive acted like it had bad sectors (and I mean bad, people): 2.1.0 Sysinstall's DISKLABEL utility gave me: Can't write sectors 0, 1, 2, ... 32 I had to partition a spare disk with a backup of / on tape, and use disklabel directly from shell -- THEN it worked... I'm still wondering about this one -- BTW it would be NICE to tell new users (like, somewhere in the Sysinstall) that putting swap at offset 0 is Bad For You (and insist heavily on it) until the bug's been fixed. -- Phil -- - [ regnauld@tetard.frmug.fr.net / +48.8N+2.3E / +33 1 4507 9391 / Sol 3 ] - - [ regnauld@freenix.fr / FreeBSD 2.x / ] - "Le schtroumpf est à l'homme ce que le bleu est au billard" - F.Berjon From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 20:21:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA00778 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com ([204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA00773 Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA00507 ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:21:25 -0800 Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.208]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16302; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:20:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA15490; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:20:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:20:07 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: David Greenman cc: hackers@freebsd.org, core@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WC changing service providers In-Reply-To: <199603131735.JAA00873@Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, David Greenman wrote: > FYI, from freefall:/etc/motd: > > ** Freefall will be off the net for part of the day as it is moved > ** to the new T1. DNS will be messed up for awhile, too, as the > ** IP addresses are all changing. Freefall will be at 204.216.27.4. > Thanks, David, but wouldn't it be a little more useful if you mentioned _which_ day? The 13th? ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 23:35:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA06075 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:35:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA06070 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA01674 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:35:26 -0800 Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA22984 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:33:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199603140733.IAA22984@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 8:30:16 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603132035.VAA12403@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from "J Wunsch" at Mar 13, 96 9:35 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Greg Lehey wrote: > >> In addition, I think I'd like to have: >> >> 14) Alt-D: delete word forward >> 15) Alt-F: forward word >> 16) Alt-B: Backward word > > Alt-D is ``ESC D'', right? No, it's M-D. You can usually simulate it with ESC-D, but it's not the same thing. Emacs on serial terminals used to accept a character with bit 7 set as M-, and that's what it did (I think, I'm on thin ice here) with the ESC prefix. Nowadays, with an X interface, it handles things differently. >>> The one problem is the "backspace deletes left" for terminals where >>> the cursor left key emits "^H". In these situations, the BS key >>> becomes synonymous with the cursor left key and the "delete character >>> to left of cursor" function is lost. >> >> I think that, under these circumstances, I'd opt for the cursor left >> function being "lost" (i.e. only available via ^B). Recall that we're >> talking console only here, of course, so the difference is moot. > > Huh? The console can run on a (not known to DDB) serial terminal! Yes, I acknowledged this elsewhere. I still think that this would be the exception, though. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 13 23:39:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA06166 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:39:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA06160 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA01708 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:38:56 -0800 Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA23174 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:37:11 +0100 Message-Id: <199603140737.IAA23174@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: erich@lodgenet.com (Eric L. Hernes) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 8:33:33 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603132152.PAA03347@jake.lodgenet.com>; from "Eric L. Hernes" at Mar 13, 96 3:52 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Terry Lambert writes: >>> >>> Please remember, there is no ALT key on a serial console. Please make shure >>> the debugger is usable on such a device .... >> >> "Alt" is a meta-key. >> >> How about "ESC-D"/"ESC-F"/"ESC-B"? This is how meta is handled on >> a lot of systems... > > brought that one full circle, huh :) wasn't the original > argument against cursor keys that they generated ESC-sequences > that were intereted as `continue with all breakpoints deleted' > but that could be changed too, if we're changing the whole user > interface. I personally hate the ESC prefix. I think it was Terry who pointed out how they could be misinterpreted, and they're always a pain, slowing down your typing something awful. I'm a regular Emacs user, but in character mode I frequently prefer vi simply because of this factor. I think that the ESC prefix is the obvious solution for serial terminals, though: it's "intuitive" (i.e. well-known), and it's flexible enough to handle all the problems we've been talking about. I'll also allow sign bit set to mean the same thing. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 00:12:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA07186 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:12:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA07181 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA01893 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:11:51 -0800 Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA25804 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:10:06 +0100 Message-Id: <199603140810.JAA25804@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: cmlambertus@ucdavis.edu (Chris Lambertus) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 9:06:28 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD), jkrause.padg@sni.de In-Reply-To: <199603132328.PAA02191@cygnus.ucdavis.edu>; from "Chris Lambertus" at Mar 13, 96 3:27 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Now, the idea of configuring the ISDN for a "Windows-based PC" sounds like >> typical Microsoft-speak, but is the provisioning process as difficult as MS >> makes it out to be if I don't go through them? > > No. It is very simple to get an ISDN line. You have what boils down > to two options. One BRI (64Kbit) or two bonded BRI's (128Kbit). You > call the phone company, and they will come in and install the line and > give you the SPID numbers your ISDN modem needs to connect properly. In fact, a Basic Rate Interface (BRI) comprises two B channels (64 kb/s), used for data transfer, and one D channel (16 kb/s), used for signalling. You *can* bond the B channels (though not in the current FreeBSD implementations), but normally they're used for two independent connections. Some telcos offer single B channels, but they're castrated BRIs. >> Also, I just checked FreeBSD's ISDN support as of -current, and it only >> supports two "Dr. Neuheus" brand internal ISDN adapters! Does this mean >> that, given a choice, I should ask for an external ISDN modem? If so, >> which brands are recommended for use with FreeBSD? Also, am I correct to >> assume that an external ISDN modem is treated just like a regular >> Hayes-compatible modem, or does it require special kernel support? -current still only supports the Dr. Neuhaus boards, but software is available for other boards. Juergen Krause (one of the original authors) and I are talking about it, and others are doing things, but Juergen wants to tidy up the software before including it in the tree. Probably the boards of choice are the Teles/Creatix S0 boards (S0 is a German term for BRI), which over here cost in the order of $100 and handle both B channels, so you have a potential of 16 kbyte/s transfer rate. I don't like "ISDN modem"s for a number of reasons: 1. They're more expensive 2. In my experience, they're *much* less reliable. 3. They require to be connected by an async line. Considering that 128 kb/s ISDN translates to 160 kb/s async, it's evident that you can't keep up the same speed. In addition, conventional "El Cheapo" serial interfaces lose data at this speed. 4. You can't run raw IP over them, mainly because of (3). 5. You can't use them for connect on demand. The board solution can allow the system to disconnect after a certain idle time, and then reconnect when another packet arrives (from either side). 6. I'm not sure about this, but I believe call setup is slower. On a direct connect board, call setup is round 2 seconds. This is particularly important for point (5). > The simplest way to configure an ISDN device is by using an ISDN->Ethernet > bridge. This is a box that plugs into your ISDN line on one end, and into > your Ethernet on the other end. This is true. This is what I currently do while trying to iron out the wrinklies on the FreeBSD solution. It's definitely not the cheapest, though. For the record, I use the same Creatix board in this configuration: it's a diskless 286 with public domain software, runs various protocols (including raw IP) to multiple destinations, and does just about everything except snmp. > You can also get ISDN modems that plug into your serial port which > are then used as point to point links (ppp, slip). As the Germans say, you can also put rivets in your ears, hang slices of sausage on them, and claim you're a dachshund. > I would stay away from internal ISDN cards. The support for them on > anything other than 'doze is minimal at best. With an external box, > you can also be assured that it'll move with your hardware should you > change platforms. Internal cards definitely offer more problems in the short term. Jordan's still waiting for a pair, and then he's promised to try out the FreeBSD software, which was developed in Germany. I'm personally expecting a few problems because of differences in the ISDN signalling implementation. If anybody else is interested, please contact me. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 00:14:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA07292 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:14:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from Post-Office.UH.EDU (Post-Office.UH.EDU [129.7.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA07287 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:14:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #8380) id <01I2B93WGQV600066P@Post-Office.UH.EDU> for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:14:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06752 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:01:53 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA03202; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:56:41 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:56:38 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: An ISP's Wishlist... To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <4i8jfm$33v@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: none Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers Lines: 13 References: <199602141750.JAA16327@idiom.com> <199602150007.KAA18935@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199602150007.KAA18935@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>, Michael Smith wrote: >> Netscape commerce server style sysadmin interface. (Have you installed >> netscape's server lately?). Very good for the system as a whole, for >> various daemons: apache, samba, inetd, named, innd, sendmail (well, maybe >> not), gated, etc. >Yetch. Requires netscape; not necessarily a winner. Double-yetch. Sounds like a security nightmare, who wants to pay out the bux for Netscape Commerce Server, and I just went through trying to do admin via a browser when I was looking into Spinner and there's no way I'd want to do that day-to-day. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 00:28:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA07770 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (gurney_j@garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA07765 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA26623; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:31:46 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:31:44 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: bsd.lib.mk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am wondering how to have it install a header file into /usr/local/include when you do a make install. I am using the bsd.lib.mk file as this is a library. Thanks for the help. just so you know, this is for my cgiparse library, and I have put a version on ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/cgiparse-0.5b.tar.gz it currently doesn't install the header file for you yet... thanks for the info... main site for cgiparse: ftp://158.165.16.235/pub/jmgsoft/ TTYL.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 00:43:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08257 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA08252 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:43:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) id JAA26397; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:43:25 +0100 From: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199603140843.JAA26397@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> Subject: SIOCGIFBRDADDR To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:43:25 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was looking at the SIOCGIFBRDADDR interface and discovered that always the broadcast address belonging to the *first* inet address of the specified interface is returned. I believe this is wrong. You should get the broadcast address belonging to the address specified in the passed ifreq structure. I was experimenting with aliases on an interface for which the alias lies in a completely different network the already present address. There should be no reason for this to fail. Except that no program will be able to obtrain the correct broadcast address. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 00:44:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08370 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:44:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from Post-Office.UH.EDU (Post-Office.UH.EDU [129.7.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08365 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #8380) id <01I2BA5B93GO00066P@Post-Office.UH.EDU> for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:44:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06907 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:31:38 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA03668; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:16:29 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:16:29 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: An ISP's Wishlist... To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <199603140816.CAA03668@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: none Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers References: <199602151811.LAA02589@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: >This could not be done while maintaining compliance with POSIX termios. This aspect of the POSIX termios is pretty broken, anyway, but we've had that discussion already. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 00:45:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08401 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from Post-Office.UH.EDU (Post-Office.UH.EDU [129.7.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08396 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #8380) id <01I2BA5EL5KE00066P@Post-Office.UH.EDU> for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:44:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06905 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:31:31 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA03540; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:12:10 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:12:10 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: An ISP's Wishlist... To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <199603140812.CAA03540@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: none Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers References: <199602192116.WAA20624@keltia.freenix.fr> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Elbel wrote: >The bastion is special in that it needs to know about *both* the inside [...] >as well as the rest of the world, [...] You cannot use the external >server or you wouldn't know about the internal part [...]. Nor >can you use the internal server, because it knows zilch about the rest >of the world [...]. I have no problem with this. I have the inside namesrver with all of named.ca/named.root commented out. I have the outside name server. I have resolv.conf on the firewall look at the inside nameserver then the outside nameserver. Is this not supposed to work? Because it does. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 00:52:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08713 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA08708 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA02929 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:52:05 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA05040 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:50:44 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA26020 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:50:43 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA00619 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:31:48 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603140831.JAA00619@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:31:47 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603140018.BAA11981@tetard.frmug.fr.net> from "Philippe Regnauld" at Mar 14, 96 01:18:04 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Philippe Regnauld wrote: > Ahem -- I've had a bit of a run-in with 'clobbered partition > tables' lately. Was related to the fact that I'd repartitioned my > disk with swap at offset 0. > > First round: the first system crash dumped core... and wiped out > disklabel, booteasy :-/ I've got an open PR for it. Bruce once told me that this will only happen if the dump space is configured via the ``kernel on'' line in the config file. Adding it via dumpon(8) might be different. Swapping itself has been fixed long ago. It used to trash disklabels for more than 10 years on any BSD and derived system (e.g. Illtrix). :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 01:14:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA09928 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:14:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Post-Office.UH.EDU (Post-Office.UH.EDU [129.7.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA09921 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #8380) id <01I2BB6NHOWI00066P@Post-Office.UH.EDU>; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:14:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07055 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:01:42 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA03991; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:40:06 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:40:06 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Is "immutable" supposed to be a good idea? To: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <199603140840.CAA03991@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: none Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers References: <199602180608.RAA29273@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote: >>If secure mode is something we turn on during the boot process, >You'd be really unhappy if we turned on secure mode :-). Really? How unhappy? I was planning on turning on secure mode on my new firewall before I connect it to the Internet for real. >I disagree. The problem is that the immutable flags are set by default >on systems that will never run in secure mode. Yes. that's a problem. I've run into that on all my installs so far. Also, the docs are kinda misleading about all this stuff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 01:24:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA10742 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:24:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA10736 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id BAA03759 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:24:42 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA24867 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:20:44 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA26203 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:20:43 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA00855 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:58:59 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603140858.JAA00855@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:58:58 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603140733.IAA22979@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 14, 96 08:30:16 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > Alt-D is ``ESC D'', right? > > No, it's M-D. You can usually simulate it with ESC-D, but it's not > the same thing. Emacs on serial terminals used to accept a character > with bit 7 set as M-, and that's what it did (I think, I'm > on thin ice here) with the ESC prefix. Nowadays, with an X interface, > it handles things differently. Even without X11, it depends on the ``input-mode'' how it interprets bit 7. Interpreting it as `Meta' prevents one from using an 8-bit characterset. > > Huh? The console can run on a (not known to DDB) serial terminal! > > Yes, I acknowledged this elsewhere. I still think that this would be > the exception, though. Nope. Only weird people use DDB. Only weird people use serial consoles. As long as the fallback to something like ^P and ^N is there, it wouldn't hurt either to assume the serial console to be ANSI-compliant (i.e., the arrow keys generate ESC [ A...D or ESC O A...D). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 02:22:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA13796 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA13784 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08044; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:06:56 -0800 (PST) To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:11:37 EDT." <199603131411.OAA21221@exalt.x.org> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:06:56 -0800 Message-ID: <8041.826787216@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think it would be an extremely bad idea to re-release 2.1 for any > reason. If you want to put the new malloc in an officially released Huh?! Where did you get the idea that we were doing that? We never re-release releases, period. We do point releases after the fact, and 2.1.1 was actually already in the planning stages before 2.1-RELEASE ever came out. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 02:24:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA13997 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:24:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA13990 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08135; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:23:30 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:44:24 PST." Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:23:30 -0800 Message-ID: <8133.826788210@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Also, I just checked FreeBSD's ISDN support as of -current, and it only > supports two "Dr. Neuheus" brand internal ISDN adapters! Does this mean > that, given a choice, I should ask for an external ISDN modem? If so, Yes. > which brands are recommended for use with FreeBSD? Also, am I correct to I like the ADTRAN TA's. I run the pair at 115.2Kbs on standard serial ports. > assume that an external ISDN modem is treated just like a regular > Hayes-compatible modem Yes. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 02:28:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA14242 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA14237 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:28:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08074; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:10:55 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams cc: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:57:36 MST." <199603131557.IAA03216@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:10:55 -0800 Message-ID: <8072.826787455@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think you misunderstand. The next release of FreeBSD will be 2.1.5, Really? News to me! :-) David and I have been assuming 2.1.1 as the proposed release number ever since the beginning, though 2.1.5 wouldn't particularly phase me I guess. Hmmmmmm. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 02:39:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA14890 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA14876 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA01031; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:30:12 -0800 (PST) To: David Dawes cc: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey), erich@lodgenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:49:42 +1100." <199603132249.JAA06168@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:30:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1029.826799412@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I disagree (someone has to :-). I always use vi mode in tcsh. My > fingers are definitely wired for vi. I believe that there are now some very good 12 step programs for dealing with this.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 02:53:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA15418 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:53:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA15413 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 02:52:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08062; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:08:57 -0800 (PST) To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Brandon Gillespie , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:52:03 CST." <199603131452.IAA01215@jake.lodgenet.com> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 23:08:57 -0800 Message-ID: <8060.826787337@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A week or so ago I spoke with the guys at Xinside, they were > holding their release of Motif because of a memory leak with malloc, > the code ran fine with BSDi and Linux, but had a leak with FreeBSD. > Is this phkmalloc or the original malloc which apparently is in 2.1 > I thought phkmalloc was mainstream months ago, but maybe not. Sigh.. I still can't get a straight story on this one, and am beginning to give up all hope of ever seeing Motif from X Inside. I've sent phkmalloc to several people there, but they've never clarified for me whether or not it had any effect. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 03:44:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA00972 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from Post-Office.UH.EDU (Post-Office.UH.EDU [129.7.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00966 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #8380) id <01I2BGFP09MG00066P@Post-Office.UH.EDU> for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:44:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07654 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:33:44 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA07089; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:30:20 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:30:20 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <199603141130.FAA07089@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: none Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby wrote: >I said A standard, not many competing standards, but maybe I should >qualify myself a little. Sure, Unix has man pages and Texinfo, but can >you call them up from within a GUI application (and not in an xterm :-)? Sure. There's the old standard xman, tkman, and I read the FreeBSD man pages under Netscape using rosettaman. tkman and rosettaman give me hypertext links from anything that looks like a man(1) reference. Way more useful than Windows help, which usually has me playing Juggling Windows trying to see both the information I'm trying to reference and the application I'm trying to use. Especially with those stupid little one-sentence popups they like. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 03:45:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01019 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:45:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Post-Office.UH.EDU (Post-Office.UH.EDU [129.7.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA01014 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #8380) id <01I2BGFLJEF200066P@Post-Office.UH.EDU> for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:44:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07645 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:33:22 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA06890; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:21:09 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:21:09 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-reply-to: To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <199603141121.FAA06890@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: none Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers References: <9602281343.AA15249@sys8.wfc.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: >One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. Like Tk (there's a curses Tk - you have to write for it, random Tk scripts don't map well to the curses mode, but it works pretty well)? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 03:43:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA00919 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:43:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from Post-Office.UH.EDU (Post-Office.UH.EDU [129.7.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00912 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:43:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #8380) id <01I2BFDRA16S00066P@Post-Office.UH.EDU>; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:14:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07479 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:46:18 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA06203; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:37:03 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:37:03 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: News group split time? In-reply-to: <20953.824755000@time.cdrom.com> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <199603141037.EAA06203@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: none Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers References: <199602191809.LAA13038@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >That's not the issue. The newsgroup was named by the infamous USENET >cabal, Was not. If anyone's a member of the cabal *I* am, and I opposed this name. The name decision was pretty much the work of a couple of people in the UVV. In any case, the bofh.cabal group is where this should be discussed. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 04:32:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA02758 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:32:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from yokogawa.co.jp (yhqfm.yokogawa.co.jp [202.33.29.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA02752 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:32:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc.yokogawa.co.jp ([133.140.4.100]) by yokogawa.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb3/3.3Wb4-firewall:08/09/94) with ESMTP id VAA27523 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:32:15 +0900 Received: from leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp by sjc.yokogawa.co.jp (8.7.1+2.6Wbeta4/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA-R/GW) id VAA01459; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:32:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from cabbage by leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.8/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA/pa) id AA29128; Thu, 14 Mar 96 21:32:13 +0900 Received: by cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.6/3.3Wb) id AA20013; Thu, 14 Mar 96 21:33:15 +0900 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 21:33:15 +0900 From: Mihoko Tanaka Message-Id: <9603141233.AA20013@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PANIC ( remove a file on the read-only FS) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello all, I'm using FreeBSD-2.1.0R on my PC. When I removed a file which is on a read-only NFS by accident, panic occured ! In kern/vfs_lookup.c:lookup() ------------------------------ /* * We now have a segment name to search for, and a directory to search. */ unionlookup: ndp->ni_dvp = dp; error = VOP_LOOKUP(dp, &ndp->ni_vp, cnp); if (error) { #ifdef DIAGNOSTIC if (ndp->ni_vp != NULL) panic("leaf should be empty"); #endif ------------------------------ The function 'VOP_LOOKUP()' calls xxx_lookup() (xxx : file system name). When I remove a file which is on a read-only file system, VOP_LOOKUP() returns a error(EROFS) and ndp->ni_vp isn't NULL because it exist. So if I compile my kernel with 'DIAGNOSTIC', panic occurs . If without 'DIAGNOSTIC', the system conflicts somewhere and gets into panic. I made some patch for this trouble. Is it correct? Does anyone have another good idea? -----------------(cut here)------------------------------------------ --- vfs_lookup.c Wed Oct 25 18:17:15 1995 +++ vfs_lookup.c.new Thu Mar 14 20:23:05 1996 @@ -399,6 +399,9 @@ error = VOP_LOOKUP(dp, &ndp->ni_vp, cnp); if (error) { #ifdef DIAGNOSTIC + if (error == EROFS) + goto bad; + if (ndp->ni_vp != NULL) panic("leaf should be empty"); #endif @@ -422,7 +425,7 @@ * If creating and at end of pathname, then can consider * allowing file to be created. */ - if (rdonly) { + if (rdonly || (dp->v_mount->mnt_flag & MNT_RDONLY)) { error = EROFS; goto bad; } -----------------(cut here)------------------------------------------ -- Mihoko Tanaka From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 04:54:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA03596 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA03591 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:54:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from deputy.pavilion.co.uk (deputy.pavilion.co.uk [194.193.24.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA00507 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:54:26 -0800 Received: from poolb55.pavilion.co.uk (poolb19.pavilion.co.uk [194.193.28.83]) by deputy.pavilion.co.uk (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id MAA09029; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 12:51:46 GMT Message-Id: <199603141251.MAA09029@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> X-Sender: aledm@mailhost.pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:43:12 +0000 To: Greg Lehey , cmlambertus@ucdavis.edu (Chris Lambertus) From: Aled Morris Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD), jkrause.padg@sni.de Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:06 14/03/96 MET, Greg Lehey wrote: >(S0 is a German term for BRI) Being pedantic, S0 is the name of the "reference point" where you interface to the ISDN. ISDN is delivered on a copper pair, ("U" interface) which is adapted to a two pair "S" (or "S0") interface by an "NT1". In the US, the customer is responsible for the NT1 (hence many ISDN devices boast "integrated NT1") whereas in Europe, the telco provides the NT1. Same with DSU/CSUs for regular leased lines I believe. Aled -- telephone +44 973 207987 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 05:08:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA04184 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from burka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@burka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA04068 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 05:07:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by burka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with ESMTP id PAA28100 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:07:28 +0200 Received: from cscdua.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id PAA10907 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:01:06 +0200 Received: by cscd.lviv.ua (uumail v1.5/ache) with UUCP id AA01415; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:41:03 +0200 Received: by st.lviv.ua (uumail v1.5/ache) with UUCP id AA03815; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:02:33 +0200 Received: (from alex@localhost) by st.lviv.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA03788 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:00:14 +0200 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:00:14 +0200 From: Alex Trofimov Message-Id: <199603140700.JAA03788@st.lviv.ua> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 06:11:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA07540 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:11:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA07531 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:11:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA17788 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:10:54 +0100 Message-Id: <199603141410.PAA17788@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: aledm@routers.co.uk (Aled Morris) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 15:07:18 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD), isdn@muc.ditec.de In-Reply-To: <199603141251.MAA09029@deputy.pavilion.co.uk>; from "Aled Morris" at Mar 14, 96 11:43 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > At 09:06 14/03/96 MET, Greg Lehey wrote: >> (S0 is a German term for BRI) > > Being pedantic, S0 is the name of the "reference point" where you > interface to the ISDN. I *love* being pedantic :-) In this particular case, all the more so because I searched the literature for this abbreviation a while back. To quote from Helgert, "Integrated Systems Digital Networks", first (only?) edition, 1991, p. 25: The S reference point defines the demarcation between the TE1 or TA on the one side and the NT2 on the other. If we consider the functions of NT2 to be primarily ntwok related, S provides a separation of the logical and possibly physical functions of the end-user and the network and thus corresponds to a boundary between the two. No mention here or in any other literature I have seen of S0 or S2m (which Deutsche Telekom uses to refer to Primary Rate Interface). > ISDN is delivered on a copper pair, ("U" interface) which is adapted > to a two pair "S" (or "S0") interface by an "NT1". In the US, the customer > is responsible for the NT1 (hence many ISDN devices boast "integrated > NT1") whereas in Europe, the telco provides the NT1. BRI is usually delivered on UTP within a larger (minimum 2UTP) cable. Helgert reprints a diagram from the 1988 Blue Book on page 23, showing the interfaces U (transmission), T and S. U and T are separated by an NT1, and T and S are separated by an NT2. On the S bus you can hang either a TE1 (such as an ISDN BRI board or "modem"), or a TA, which creates an R interface to a TE2 (such as an analogue phone). > Same with DSU/CSUs for regular leased lines I believe. I wouldn't know about that. I would guess that that depends on whether they're analogue or digital. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 06:24:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA08863 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA08853 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA25025; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:13:22 +0200 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:13:21 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ibcs2 and microsoft a.out's In-Reply-To: <199603140005.KAA04762@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > Eric L. Hernes stands accused of saying: > > > > > > anyone have an idea of how go about getting this sucker to run? > > it's the microsoft assembler from an sco box, if this and it's type > > run I can create dos binaries on FBSD. > > > > (ttyp0@jake)$ file /compat/ibcs2/bin/masm > > /compat/ibcs2/bin/masm: Microsoft a.out separate pure segmented word-swapped > > V2.3 V3.0 86 small model executable Large Text > > Errr. 'small model' means it's a 286 binary, not much chance of running > that I suspect. > > Do you have to use MASM? You can build a cross-gcc toolchain for i386-go32 > and build 386 DOS binaries with that; we do that here and it works just > fine. As a bonus your DOS executables get a 32-bit flat address space > and virtual memory 8) > And the same thing under Windows 3.1 / 3.11 - there is an extender that runs under windows and allows you to write windows programs with gcc > > eric. > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ > ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 06:49:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10000 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA09995 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id GAA02482 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:49:00 -0800 Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA27886 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:30:39 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma027882; Thu Mar 14 08:30:37 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA28416; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:10:46 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA06343; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:23:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603141423.IAA06343@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:33:51 GMT." <22360.826734831@critter.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:23:04 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone on the core team talked to Xinside about this? They said that you (core) were working on it. If it's just a matter of -lgnumalloc, or -lphkmalloc (which isn't in 2.1 in any way shape or form right?) then it seems that they could just use a better malloc and release it right? eric. Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >> >> A week or so ago I spoke with the guys at Xinside, they were >> holding their release of Motif because of a memory leak with malloc, >> the code ran fine with BSDi and Linux, but had a leak with FreeBSD. >> Is this phkmalloc or the original malloc which apparently is in 2.1 >> I thought phkmalloc was mainstream months ago, but maybe not. >> >> eric. > >The malloc in 2.1 doesn't do >anything< to conserve memory, a fact than >can easily be confused with a memory leak. > >phkmalloc is >not< in 2.1. > >-- >Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. >http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. >whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc >. >Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 06:49:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10039 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA10034 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:49:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA01963; Thu, 14 Mar 96 09:47:43 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id OAA22167; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:47:42 GMT Message-Id: <199603141447.OAA22167@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: News group split time? In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Mar 1996 04:37:03 EDT. <199603141037.EAA06203@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:47:41 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >That's not the issue. The newsgroup was named by the infamous USENET > >cabal, > > Was not. If anyone's a member of the cabal *I* am, and I opposed this name. > The name decision was pretty much the work of a couple of people in the UVV. Correction: The names were dictated by the Usenet Group Advice Gurus, not the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 07:01:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA10572 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA10566 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA07261; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:03:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:03:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: More sysinstall troubles from 3/3 snap Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk /stand/sysinstall, work your way down to selecting XFree86, cancel your way out, it fails for some reason that goes faster than I can read on the screen, then I get a kazillion "Malloc warning: free(): already free {chunk,page}", then finally a listAbort trap... It's broke Jim. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 07:13:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA11036 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA11031 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:13:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu (nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu [129.171.102.27]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA02844 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:13:41 -0800 Received: (from ivan@localhost) by nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA04267 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:12:29 -0500 From: Ivan Lima Message-Id: <199603141512.KAA04267@nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu> Subject: Mathematica under FreeBSd To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:12:29 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm very interested in running Mathematica in my FreeBSD box and someone in the newsgroup said that a few weeks ago someone anounced success in running Mathematica for Linux under FreeBSD here in the mailing list. So, if anyone has any information on that please let know. Thanks a lot, Ivan -- /| Ivan Lima | O __/ |_ Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science | o /o \_/| Division of Marine Biology and Fisheries | ( < _ | ivan@nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu | \__ _/ \| http://nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu/homepage/home.html | \_| From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 07:41:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA12802 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:41:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA12792 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from bell.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id aa12848; 14 Mar 96 15:39 GMT To: Ivan Lima cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mathematica under FreeBSd X-Address: School Of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. X-Phone: (Home)+353-(0)1-8204643 (College)+353-(0)1-7022280 X-PGP: Public Key on Request In-reply-to: Message from Ivan Lima dated today at 10:12. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3522.826817991.1@maths.tcd.ie> Content-Description: text Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:39:52 +0000 From: Colman Reilly Message-ID: <9603141539.aa12848@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm very interested in running Mathematica in my FreeBSD box and someone in the newsgroup said that a few weeks ago someone anounced success in running Mathematica for Linux under FreeBSD here in the mailing list. So, if anyone has any information on that please let know. Thanks a lot, That was me. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to clean up and generalise my changes to the linux emulator, and last time I asked for info on the best way to find out the hardware address of an interface I got one non-useful reply and zero useful replies. I haven't had time to go digging since. If you mail me I'll try and pull out the change I made and give you instructions on how to apply it for your system, but I warn you that it's ugly as sin. Colman From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 07:54:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA14165 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:54:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA14155 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 07:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA09264; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:31:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:31:39 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603141531.IAA09264@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nate Williams , "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-Reply-To: <8072.826787455@time.cdrom.com> References: <199603131557.IAA03216@rocky.sri.MT.net> <8072.826787455@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > I think you misunderstand. The next release of FreeBSD will be 2.1.5, > > Really? News to me! :-) > > David and I have been assuming 2.1.1 as the proposed release number > ever since the beginning, though 2.1.5 wouldn't particularly phase > me I guess. Hmmmmmm. It makes more sense to have a .5 release to follow convention, but in any case I was attempting to communicate that the next release would be different from 2.1. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:12:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15254 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:12:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA15249 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:12:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA22055; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:10:39 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603141610.KAA22055@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:10:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: cmlambertus@ucdavis.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, jkrause.padg@sni.de In-Reply-To: <199603140810.JAA25804@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 14, 96 09:06:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't like "ISDN modem"s for a number of reasons: > > 1. They're more expensive How do you figure? $300-$400 isn't bad. You pay $225-$250 for a decent V.34 modem... > 2. In my experience, they're *much* less reliable. I've _never_ seen a failure. On the other hand, the Combinet ethernet bridge stuff we use at work is tempramental, unreliable, and difficult to configure. I generally point people away from that particular solution. > 3. They require to be connected by an async line. Considering that > 128 kb/s ISDN translates to 160 kb/s async, it's evident that > you can't keep up the same speed. In addition, conventional "El > Cheapo" serial interfaces lose data at this speed. True (well, I haven't seen lossage using 16550's, but anyone using 16450's deserves what they get). > 4. You can't run raw IP over them, mainly because of (3). I don't see people running "raw IP" over sync lines, either. It's generally run via PPP or Cisco or some other protocol.. you can certainly run PPP or SLIP over an async ISDN connection as well. > 5. You can't use them for connect on demand. The board solution can > allow the system to disconnect after a certain idle time, and then > reconnect when another packet arrives (from either side). Eh, really????? Wow. And here I thought iijppp had these features built in. Silly me. ;-) > 6. I'm not sure about this, but I believe call setup is slower. On a > direct connect board, call setup is round 2 seconds. This is > particularly important for point (5). Call setup for a dual-channel ISDN link around here is about two seconds, maybe three, but it's doing more work than a single link. I have no idea why you think a direct connect board would be faster. You are being limited by the rate at which you can chat with the switch and how fast the switch can set up the call (possibly involving more than one switch). > > You can also get ISDN modems that plug into your serial port which > > are then used as point to point links (ppp, slip). > > As the Germans say, you can also put rivets in your ears, hang slices > of sausage on them, and claim you're a dachshund. I guess I don't understand what your problem with this is. ISDN terminal adapters were _designed_ specifically to do these sorts of things, and in my experience they are more reliable and less tempramental than analog modems. In my opinion, it's always great when you can leverage off of pre-existing technology. The TA's play right into the fact that support for serial devices like modems is widespread and well tested. It's a zero effort solution.. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:13:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15308 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA15295 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:13:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA04444; Thu, 14 Mar 96 11:11:33 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id QAA22293; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 16:11:30 GMT Message-Id: <199603141611.QAA22293@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:31:39 EDT. <199603141531.IAA09264@rocky.sri.MT.net> Organization: X Consortium Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:11:30 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > I think you misunderstand. The next release of FreeBSD will be 2.1.5, > > > > Really? News to me! :-) > > > > David and I have been assuming 2.1.1 as the proposed release number > > ever since the beginning, though 2.1.5 wouldn't particularly phase > > me I guess. Hmmmmmm. > > It makes more sense to have a .5 release to follow convention, but in > any case I was attempting to communicate that the next release would be > different from 2.1. It was a very strange convention to go from 1.1.0 to 1.1.5, and from 2.0.0 to 2.0.5. Makes me wonder what was in 1.1.[1234] and 2.0.[1234]. and why weren't they released to the public. Almost looks like there were aborted versions that weren't released, which could cast a certain amount of FUD over the whole thing. (And yes, inquiring minds want to know where MS-Windows NT 3.[234] and Mac System 7.[234]!) -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:15:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15367 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:15:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15357 Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id BAA07314; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:15:29 +0900 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:15:29 +0900 Message-Id: <199603141615.BAA07314@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [PCMCIA] pccard-test-960314.tar.gz is now available From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk pccard-test-960314.tar.gz is now available. This is the first release based on 960303-SNAP (patches relative to 2.1.0R is also provided, but it is the copy of pcccard-test-960308). ftp://bash.cc.keio.ac.jp/pub/os/FreeBSD/alpha-test/pccard/pccard-test-960314.tar.gz -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:22:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15827 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA15818 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:21:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA24997 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:21:20 +0100 Message-Id: <199603141621.RAA24997@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 17:17:39 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isdn@muc.ditec.de In-Reply-To: <199603141610.KAA22055@brasil.moneng.mei.com>; from "Joe Greco" at Mar 14, 96 10:10 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> I don't like "ISDN modem"s for a number of reasons: >> >> 1. They're more expensive > > How do you figure? $300-$400 isn't bad. You pay $225-$250 for a decent > V.34 modem... Sorry, I meant "more expensive than a cheap ISDN card". See below--over here they cost $100 odd. >> 2. In my experience, they're *much* less reliable. > > I've _never_ seen a failure. On the other hand, the Combinet ethernet > bridge stuff we use at work is tempramental, unreliable, and difficult to > configure. I generally point people away from that particular solution. Again, the comparison is with ISDN boards, not with modems. I don't know the Combinet, but the ISPA/PC-ROUTE stuff I use is disappointingly reliable :-) (In case you don't understand, it lessens the incentive for me to switch over to the FreeBSD software). >> 3. They require to be connected by an async line. Considering that >> 128 kb/s ISDN translates to 160 kb/s async, it's evident that >> you can't keep up the same speed. In addition, conventional "El >> Cheapo" serial interfaces lose data at this speed. > > True (well, I haven't seen lossage using 16550's, but anyone using 16450's > deserves what they get). I think you would do at 160 kb/s. >> 4. You can't run raw IP over them, mainly because of (3). > > I don't see people running "raw IP" over sync lines, either. It's generally > run via PPP or Cisco or some other protocol.. you can certainly run PPP or > SLIP over an async ISDN connection as well. You don't in the US, but it's the standard (if not only) way to do it over ISDN here in Germany. >> 5. You can't use them for connect on demand. The board solution can >> allow the system to disconnect after a certain idle time, and then >> reconnect when another packet arrives (from either side). > > Eh, really????? Wow. And here I thought iijppp had these features built > in. Silly me. ;-) Looks like I might be behind the times here. Is this with the call setup time you mention below? >> 6. I'm not sure about this, but I believe call setup is slower. On a >> direct connect board, call setup is round 2 seconds. This is >> particularly important for point (5). > > Call setup for a dual-channel ISDN link around here is about two seconds, > maybe three, but it's doing more work than a single link. > > I have no idea why you think a direct connect board would be faster. You > are being limited by the rate at which you can chat with the switch and how > fast the switch can set up the call (possibly involving more than one > switch). Well, for one thing you need to transfer your data to and from the "modem", and in most ppp environments I've seen various delays. But to be honest, I've never bothered trying it with ISDN "modems". The only ones I have used (Elink) were so temperamental that I could hardly get an interactive connection running. >> > You can also get ISDN modems that plug into your serial port which >> > are then used as point to point links (ppp, slip). >> >> As the Germans say, you can also put rivets in your ears, hang slices >> of sausage on them, and claim you're a dachshund. > > I guess I don't understand what your problem with this is. ISDN terminal > adapters were _designed_ specifically to do these sorts of things, and in my > experience they are more reliable and less tempramental than analog modems. As I said above, I'm not comparing them with analogue modems, though if I did, I think the Elinks would still lose. But I'm more than prepared to believe that this is a problem with the Elinks. > In my opinion, it's always great when you can leverage off of pre-existing > technology. The TA's play right into the fact that support for serial > devices like modems is widespread and well tested. It's a zero effort > solution.. Hmm. I'm not in favour of change for change's sake either. But I've had much pain running PPP and SLIP on analogue links, and once I got past the pain of setting up ISPA (mainly the result of impossibly bad documentation), it just works. The router never crashes, I always (well, almost) get my connection, and I need zero setup on any other machine in the net (well, I have to tell them the default gateway). I think the bottom line here is that the kind of ISDN boards used in Germany are hardly available in the USA. As I say, that's beginning to change, and I'd be interested to hear what you have to say after you've installed them and got over the teething problems. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:22:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15856 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:22:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15850 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:22:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA24201; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:24:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199603141624.KAA24201@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Sean Kelly cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:35:28 MST." <199603132135.AA283582928@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Compiler-Motto: Wintermute is dead. Long live Wintermute. Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:24:03 -0600 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So, like Sean Kelly was saying to me just the other day: > >>>>> "Jake" == Jake Hamby writes: > > Jake> Also, I just checked FreeBSD's ISDN support as of -current, > Jake> and it only supports two "Dr. Neuheus" brand internal ISDN > Jake> adapters! Does this mean that, given a choice, I should ask > Jake> for an external ISDN modem? > > Actually, I think your best bet is to get an external ISDN bridge or > router. Ascend makes some nice models for home and small office use. > Basically, you plug the ISDN line into one end (they have integrated > NT1s) and the other end plugs into your LAN. You don't need to worry > about FreeBSD supporting the hardware. You do need to worry about > your provider at the other end. I would probably agree with this advice. > I haven't bought mine yet, but I'm considering this one: > http://www.ascend.com/products/p25/p25index.html. Gak. OK, as nice as the Pipe-25 sounds, Ascend has had some fairly serious problems with it. I believe it was basically overheating and checking out. Grill them on this, and ask for verifiable third party references. Make sure they have them in stock as well. Just a couple months ago, they were totally back logged too. (I'm not sure which was the cause and which was the effect here... :-) As an alternative, I use the Pipe-50 and it's been rock solid for me. I've had it in continual use for the past year. I would definitely recommend it, especially in the face of Cisco prices... (But, I did my research a year ago, so peek all around again.) jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:27:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA16168 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16157 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from mail.hanse.de (193.174.9.9) with smtp id ; Thu, 14 Mar 96 17:26 MET Received: from wavehh.UUCP by mail.hanse.de with UUCP for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id ; Thu, 14 Mar 96 17:26 MET Received: by wavehh.hanse.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24752; Thu, 14 Mar 96 17:26:17 +0100 From: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer) Message-Id: <9603141626.AA24752@wavehh.hanse.de> Subject: Kernel Floppy, NFS mount, chroot - Infos? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:26:16 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The Handbook mentions one can set up a floppy, so that a normal kernel (instead of netboot) is loaded and a custom init replacement mounts some NFS fs and chroots the whole system to it. I'm going to try this, but before reinventing the wheel, is there someone who has done this before? Thanks if you can help. Otherwise, I'll collect what I have to do and make it availiable. Happy Hacking Martin P.S. I don't want netboot because the cards are 3c5x9 and I don't want to provide bootp information for the PCs to boot. I think having a ready-to-run setup of that sort might convince quite a few people to try BSD. P.S2. I hope noone with a windows PC in reach of my ethernet is readings this [evil grin]. -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer - Fax +49 40 522 85 36 BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bik-gmbh.de/~cracauer From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:43:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17176 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:43:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17171 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:43:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA22125; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:42:33 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603141642.KAA22125@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:42:32 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isdn@muc.ditec.de In-Reply-To: <199603141621.RAA24988@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 14, 96 05:17:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > True (well, I haven't seen lossage using 16550's, but anyone using 16450's > > deserves what they get). > > I think you would do at 160 kb/s. Maybe, but I don't at 230 kb/s. > >> 4. You can't run raw IP over them, mainly because of (3). > > > > I don't see people running "raw IP" over sync lines, either. It's generally > > run via PPP or Cisco or some other protocol.. you can certainly run PPP or > > SLIP over an async ISDN connection as well. > > You don't in the US, but it's the standard (if not only) way to do it > over ISDN here in Germany. That wouldn't work well here, mainly because most folks don't have control over both ends of the link. Most folks will connect to a service provider who is using PPP on V.120 or somesuch... > >> 5. You can't use them for connect on demand. The board solution can > >> allow the system to disconnect after a certain idle time, and then > >> reconnect when another packet arrives (from either side). > > > > Eh, really????? Wow. And here I thought iijppp had these features built > > in. Silly me. ;-) > > Looks like I might be behind the times here. Is this with the call > setup time you mention below? I haven't tried it with iijppp. I run all my dedicated connections through SLIP, because they're nailed up 24/7... > >> 6. I'm not sure about this, but I believe call setup is slower. On a > >> direct connect board, call setup is round 2 seconds. This is > >> particularly important for point (5). > > > > Call setup for a dual-channel ISDN link around here is about two seconds, > > maybe three, but it's doing more work than a single link. > > > > I have no idea why you think a direct connect board would be faster. You > > are being limited by the rate at which you can chat with the switch and how > > fast the switch can set up the call (possibly involving more than one > > switch). > > Well, for one thing you need to transfer your data to and from the > "modem", and in most ppp environments I've seen various delays. But > to be honest, I've never bothered trying it with ISDN "modems". The > only ones I have used (Elink) were so temperamental that I could > hardly get an interactive connection running. It still shouldn't take long... > > In my opinion, it's always great when you can leverage off of pre-existing > > technology. The TA's play right into the fact that support for serial > > devices like modems is widespread and well tested. It's a zero effort > > solution.. > > Hmm. I'm not in favour of change for change's sake either. But I've > had much pain running PPP and SLIP on analogue links, and once I got > past the pain of setting up ISPA (mainly the result of impossibly bad > documentation), it just works. The router never crashes, I always > (well, almost) get my connection, and I need zero setup on any other > machine in the net (well, I have to tell them the default gateway). Maybe that's part of the difference, I've had lots of good luck running connections via SLIP and PPP. "Not a problem here" ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:51:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17631 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17626 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:50:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from deputy.pavilion.co.uk (deputy.pavilion.co.uk [194.193.24.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA04100 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:50:55 -0800 Received: from poolb55.pavilion.co.uk (poolc28.pavilion.co.uk [194.193.28.156]) by deputy.pavilion.co.uk (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id QAA18159 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 16:49:21 GMT Message-Id: <199603141649.QAA18159@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> X-Sender: aledm@mailhost.pavilion.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:40:30 +0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) From: Aled Morris Subject: Pentium Pro m/b bug question (was Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"?) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 15:07 14/03/96 MET, Greg Lehey wrote: [more stuff about the U, T, and S reference points, NT1, TE1 etc.] I agree totally. I can't undestand why people say this ISDN stuff is confusing. :-) :-) Unrelated question: can someone explain in simple terms why I shouldn't go out and buy a Pentium Pro system? I understand from this list that there is some kind of motherboard bug which causes performance problems. What should I ask my vendor? I was looking at a GW2K system, being a satisifed previous customer. Aled -- telephone +44 973 207987 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:51:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17668 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:51:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17661 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA26850 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:51:11 +0100 Message-Id: <199603141651.RAA26850@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 17:47:34 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isdn@muc.ditec.de In-Reply-To: <199603141642.KAA22125@brasil.moneng.mei.com>; from "Joe Greco" at Mar 14, 96 10:42 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> True (well, I haven't seen lossage using 16550's, but anyone using 16450's >>> deserves what they get). >> >> I think you would do at 160 kb/s. > > Maybe, but I don't at 230 kb/s. Then I think we can assume that you won't at 160 kb/s either. How much disk activity do you have? To be honest, the problems I have on my 16550As are with BSD/386 1.1, not with FreeBSD, but I suspect that the same kind of problems are latent. >>>> 4. You can't run raw IP over them, mainly because of (3). >>> >>> I don't see people running "raw IP" over sync lines, either. It's generally >>> run via PPP or Cisco or some other protocol.. you can certainly run PPP or >>> SLIP over an async ISDN connection as well. >> >> You don't in the US, but it's the standard (if not only) way to do it >> over ISDN here in Germany. > > That wouldn't work well here, mainly because most folks don't have control > over both ends of the link. Most folks will connect to a service provider > who is using PPP on V.120 or somesuch... I think this is just another view of the same problem. Admittedly, over here you'll also find ISPs who want to use ppp over ISDN, mainly because they don't know any better. >>>> 5. You can't use them for connect on demand. The board solution can >>>> allow the system to disconnect after a certain idle time, and then >>>> reconnect when another packet arrives (from either side). >>> >>> Eh, really????? Wow. And here I thought iijppp had these features built >>> in. Silly me. ;-) >> >> Looks like I might be behind the times here. Is this with the call >> setup time you mention below? > > I haven't tried it with iijppp. I run all my dedicated connections through > SLIP, because they're nailed up 24/7... OK. I'm looking from the other viewpoint: small user, expensive phone call time, but still an itch in my fingers that makes the 2 seconds seem interminable too. It's my gut feeling that ppp setup would take significantly longer. If anybody has any hard figures, I'd be interested to hear them. Either way, of course, that doesn't alter the fact that ppp represents protocol overhead which you don't need under ISDN. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 08:53:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17929 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (odin.INS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.8.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17922 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:53:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (chet@localhost) by odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (8.6.12+cwru/CWRU-2.2-ins) id LAA07854; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:52:51 -0500 (from chet) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:51:07 -0500 From: Chet Ramey To: terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #974 Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, mitayai@constantchange.on.ca Reply-To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu In-Reply-To: Message from mitayai@constantchange.on.ca of Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:51:25 +0000 () (id ) Message-ID: <9603141651.AA07752.SM@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu> Read-Receipt-To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Why is it that MetaMail never recognizes your messages as displayable? > > > > Every one of your messages so far have required "1 -- display it as text". > > > > Other people's MIME memssage don't blow chunks like this... > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > Pine tells me his messages are "Application/PGP" which it doesnt know how > to display sine i doubt it is in my mailcap. :) Add the following line to the mailcap file of your choice: application/pgp; cat %s; copiousoutput -- ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer Chet Ramey, Case Western Reserve University Internet: chet@po.CWRU.Edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 09:25:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA20084 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:25:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from skypirates.constantchange.on.ca (SkyPirates.ConstantChange.on.ca [198.96.119.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20074 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mitayai@localhost) by skypirates.constantchange.on.ca (8.7.4/8.6.12) id MAA00580; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 12:26:56 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 12:26:56 +0000 () From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe X-Sender: mitayai@skypirates.constantchange.on.ca To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #974 In-Reply-To: <9603141651.AA07752.SM@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Chet Ramey wrote: > > > Why is it that MetaMail never recognizes your messages as displayable? > > > > > > Every one of your messages so far have required "1 -- display it as text". > > > > > > Other people's MIME memssage don't blow chunks like this... > > > > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > > terry@lambert.org > > > > Pine tells me his messages are "Application/PGP" which it doesnt know how > > to display sine i doubt it is in my mailcap. :) > > Add the following line to the mailcap file of your choice: > > application/pgp; cat %s; copiousoutput > Works great, merci. :) -Mit From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 09:39:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA20871 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20862 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from horst.bfd.com ([204.160.242.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA05001 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:39:13 -0800 Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.2]) by horst.bfd.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02223; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:32:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:36:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Philippe Regnauld cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( In-Reply-To: <199603140018.BAA11981@tetard.frmug.fr.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Philippe Regnauld wrote: > J Wunsch =E9crit / writes: > >=20 > > As michael butler wrote: > > >=20 > > > How does one recover from the clobbered partition table that no longe= r > > > exists after you try to install another drive with the 2.1 install di= sk ? > >=20 > > By writing down the figures before clobbering it. >=20 > =09Ahem -- I've had a bit of a run-in with 'clobbered partition > =09tables' lately. Was related to the fact that I'd repartitioned my > =09disk with swap at offset 0. =20 Is it a problem to have your swap as the first partition? I've always=20 put it there since that's the fastest part of the disk. If this is a=20 problem, that could explain why I lost our web server yesterday, and why=20 the SCSI system stopped working when I upgraded to 2.1 (you don't want to= =20 know what kind of day it was, trust me). From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 09:50:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA21542 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21537 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:50:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11291; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:47:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603141747.KAA11291@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:47:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: erich@lodgenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603140737.IAA23174@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 14, 96 08:33:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I personally hate the ESC prefix. I think it was Terry who pointed > out how they could be misinterpreted, and they're always a pain, > slowing down your typing something awful. I'm a regular Emacs user, > but in character mode I frequently prefer vi simply because of this > factor. > > I think that the ESC prefix is the obvious solution for serial > terminals, though: it's "intuitive" (i.e. well-known), and it's > flexible enough to handle all the problems we've been talking about. > I'll also allow sign bit set to mean the same thing. Hard code ANSI escape sequences for questionable keys. For questionable terminals, the Wyse/Televide/etc. don't have a colliding space for the interesting keys, so as long as you avoid function keys, you're fine. Even then, it's not that hard to distinguish ESC @ 1 from an ANSI sequence. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 09:51:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA21616 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21611 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11301; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:48:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603141748.KAA11301@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: An ISP's Wishlist... To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:48:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603140816.CAA03668@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 14, 96 02:16:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert wrote: > >This could not be done while maintaining compliance with POSIX termios. > > This aspect of the POSIX termios is pretty broken, anyway, but we've had that > discussion already. Uh... back from a long vacation are we? 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 09:55:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA21855 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21845 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA05241 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:54:58 -0800 Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id UAA00186; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:09:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:09:40 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Stacksize In-Reply-To: <199603132020.VAA12287@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As i wrote: read his message first. Carefully. > > My disk is better than your brain :^) == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == ^ | \- idiot <=) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 09:55:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA21889 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21869 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11323; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:52:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603141752.KAA11323@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: News group split time? To: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:52:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603141447.OAA22167@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Mar 14, 96 09:47:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > >That's not the issue. The newsgroup was named by the infamous USENET > > >cabal, > > > > Was not. If anyone's a member of the cabal *I* am, and I opposed this name. > > The name decision was pretty much the work of a couple of people in the UVV. > > Correction: The names were dictated by the Usenet Group Advice Gurus, not > the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers. What I wouldn't give for another release of the "Illuminati" game with these groups included. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 09:58:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22218 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:58:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22207 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:58:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA05293 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:58:38 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11314; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:50:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603141750.KAA11314@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: News group split time? To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:50:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603141037.EAA06203@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 14, 96 04:37:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >That's not the issue. The newsgroup was named by the infamous USENET > >cabal, > > Was not. If anyone's a member of the cabal *I* am, and I opposed this name. > The name decision was pretty much the work of a couple of people in the UVV. > > In any case, the bofh.cabal group is where this should be discussed. or alt.conspiracy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 10:03:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA22487 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22481 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11338; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:59:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603141759.KAA11338@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PANIC ( remove a file on the read-only FS) To: m_tanaka@pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Mihoko Tanaka) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:59:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9603141233.AA20013@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> from "Mihoko Tanaka" at Mar 14, 96 09:33:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The function 'VOP_LOOKUP()' calls xxx_lookup() (xxx : file system name). > When I remove a file which is on a read-only file system, > VOP_LOOKUP() returns a error(EROFS) and ndp->ni_vp isn't NULL > because it exist. > > So if I compile my kernel with 'DIAGNOSTIC', panic occurs . > If without 'DIAGNOSTIC', the system conflicts somewhere and gets into panic. > > > I made some patch for this trouble. > Is it correct? Does anyone have another good idea? > -----------------(cut here)------------------------------------------ > --- vfs_lookup.c Wed Oct 25 18:17:15 1995 > +++ vfs_lookup.c.new Thu Mar 14 20:23:05 1996 > @@ -399,6 +399,9 @@ > error = VOP_LOOKUP(dp, &ndp->ni_vp, cnp); > if (error) { > #ifdef DIAGNOSTIC > + if (error == EROFS) > + goto bad; > + > if (ndp->ni_vp != NULL) > panic("leaf should be empty"); > #endif > @@ -422,7 +425,7 @@ > * If creating and at end of pathname, then can consider > * allowing file to be created. > */ > - if (rdonly) { > + if (rdonly || (dp->v_mount->mnt_flag & MNT_RDONLY)) { > error = EROFS; > goto bad; > } > -----------------(cut here)------------------------------------------ The error check should be *outside* the #ifdef DIAGNOSTIC, IMO. 8-). Other than that, this seems to be the correct response to the move of the read-only down into the FS proper. The read-only error code return move was the right thing to do because of overlay FS's, like translucent, union (not the union causing the problem in this case, which is the option, but the real FS), etc.. The EROFS needs to be returned by the underlying FS of an FS pair only if it is applicable; otherwise a union mount on a CDROM rendered the writable non-CDROM FS involved non-writeable (or cause the panic you saw). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 10:15:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA22982 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from paloalto.access.hp.com (daemon@paloalto.access.hp.com [15.254.56.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA22966 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:15:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by paloalto.access.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA163007303; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:15:04 -0800 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA064357302; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:15:03 -0800 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA106347302; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:15:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199603141815.AA106347302@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:15:01 -0800 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> 3. They require to be connected by an async line. Considering that > >> 128 kb/s ISDN translates to 160 kb/s async, it's evident that > >> you can't keep up the same speed. In addition, conventional "El > >> Cheapo" serial interfaces lose data at this speed. > > > > True (well, I haven't seen lossage using 16550's, but anyone using 16450's > > deserves what they get). > > I think you would do at 160 kb/s. Just as a data point, an Ascend P50 can transfer a 518694-byte /etc/hosts file in 12 seconds, for around 42Kbytes/sec (*bytes*, not *bits*). This is, of course, being done with compression in the P50. Somehow, I just can't see *ANY* serial-line-based ISDN modem handling this kind of speed. -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 10:17:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23084 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23033 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11369; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:11:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603141811.LAA11369@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #974 To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:11:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, mitayai@constantchange.on.ca In-Reply-To: <9603141651.AA07752.SM@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu> from "Chet Ramey" at Mar 14, 96 11:51:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Add the following line to the mailcap file of your choice: > > application/pgp; cat %s; copiousoutput Forgive me if I don't rush right out and install PGP on my box. Since this is just a signature, not an encrypted message, it's only marginally useful in verifying identity (since it could be double-blinded and forged anyway). It's annoying to see this sort of thing on a list... if we cared about PGP signatures, Majordomo would verify PGP keys, not us, and list messages would be PGP'ed at the Majordomo side so we could be sure it was, in fact, the list that sent the thing. For all I know, Jordan is adding the PGP signature to those messages from BSDI using his own made-up key just to be annoying. Or maybe Rod Grimes is doing it so he can sell me more disk space (which I would need if I installed the programs and modified my mailc[r]ap file every time someone weenied a new MIME type onto a mailing list). 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 10:17:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23156 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:17:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23149 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA29765 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 12:12:33 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma029763; Thu Mar 14 12:12:20 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA30423; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:26:13 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA07160; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:38:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603141738.LAA07160@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ibcs2 and microsoft a.out's In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:35:29 +1030." <199603140005.KAA04762@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:38:28 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > >> V2.3 V3.0 86 small model executable Large Text > >Errr. 'small model' means it's a 286 binary, not much chance of running >that I suspect. > without vm86 right? obviously SCO does it somehow. (oh, no... not this discussion again ;) ) >Do you have to use MASM? You can build a cross-gcc toolchain for i386-go32 >and build 386 DOS binaries with that; we do that here and it works just >fine. As a bonus your DOS executables get a 32-bit flat address space >and virtual memory 8) no, I don't have to. In fact I don't even have to make dos binaries. I was just testing the limits of ibcs2. I do have some code that needs masm, but I've also got plenty of SCO boxes that I can run masm on. I'll look into gcc as a cross though. >-- >]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ >]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ >]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ >]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ >]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 10:23:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23452 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23445 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA05658 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:23:41 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA01639; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:20:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199603141820.KAA01639@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jon Loeliger cc: Sean Kelly , jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:24:03 CST." <199603141624.KAA24201@chrome.jdl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:20:27 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Jon Loeliger said: > As an alternative, I use the Pipe-50 and it's been rock solid > for me. I've had it in continual use for the past year. I would The same here I have own a Pipeline-50 for 9 months and it has been quite solid. I wish PacBell's isdn setup was as solid as my Pipeline 50 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 10:28:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23708 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23703 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:28:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA05697 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 10:28:36 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0txHlB-0003vkC; Thu, 14 Mar 96 10:28 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA25523; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:28:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 08:23:04 CST." <199603141423.IAA06343@jake.lodgenet.com> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:28:15 +0000 Message-ID: <25521.826828095@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone on the core team talked to Xinside about this? > They said that you (core) were working on it. If it's just > a matter of -lgnumalloc, or -lphkmalloc (which isn't in 2.1 in > any way shape or form right?) then it seems that they could just > use a better malloc and release it right? Well, if they contact me or somebody gives me a contact there... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 11:02:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA25367 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:02:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA25361 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0txIH7-0004ImC; Thu, 14 Mar 96 11:01 PST Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:01:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , Poul-Henning Kamp , Brandon Gillespie , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-Reply-To: <8060.826787337@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > A week or so ago I spoke with the guys at Xinside, they were > > holding their release of Motif because of a memory leak with malloc, > > the code ran fine with BSDi and Linux, but had a leak with FreeBSD. > > Is this phkmalloc or the original malloc which apparently is in 2.1 > > I thought phkmalloc was mainstream months ago, but maybe not. > > Sigh.. I still can't get a straight story on this one, and am > beginning to give up all hope of ever seeing Motif from X Inside. > I've sent phkmalloc to several people there, but they've never > clarified for me whether or not it had any effect. > > Jordan You can also remind them that gnumalloc comes with FreeBSD 2.1.0, and should have the same characteristics as Linux's malloc. Most X programs that use Imakefiles are linked with -lgnumalloc anyway now.. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 11:18:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA26053 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26048 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA06240 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:18:45 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA00497; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:14:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199603141914.LAA00497@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Greg Lehey cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), hackers@FreeBSD.org, isdn@muc.ditec.de Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:47:34 +0700." <199603141651.RAA26850@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:14:12 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Greg Lehey said: > call time, but still an itch in my fingers that makes the 2 seconds If you are in the same centrex block it takes something like 30milliseconds to establish a connection 8) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 14:06:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA06296 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA06287 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA16908; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:05:34 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA02929; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:05:33 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id WAA01101; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 22:53:35 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603142153.WAA01101@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 22:53:35 +0100 (MET) Cc: ejs@bfd.com (Eric J. Schwertfeger) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Eric J. Schwertfeger" at Mar 14, 96 09:36:30 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > Is it a problem to have your swap as the first partition? I've always Yes, if it starts right at offset 0 of the disk/BSD slice. > put it there since that's the fastest part of the disk. If this is a > problem, that could explain why I lost our web server yesterday, and why > the SCSI system stopped working when I upgraded to 2.1 (you don't want to > know what kind of day it was, trust me). As i wrote in another mail, swapping has already been fixed for some time (while it's been broken for 10 years or more in BSD), but some sort of core dump is clobbering the disklabel. Bruce once wrote me that it might only affect core dumping where the ``dumps on'' clause is present in the kernel config file, not those that are being turned on with dumpon(8). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 14:24:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07582 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07575 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:24:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA08578 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:24:50 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA09501; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:04:26 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603142234.JAA09501@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Mathematica under FreeBSd To: creilly@maths.tcd.ie (Colman Reilly) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:04:25 +1030 (CST) Cc: ivan@nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9603141539.aa12848@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> from "Colman Reilly" at Mar 14, 96 03:39:52 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Colman Reilly stands accused of saying: > > That was me. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to clean up and > generalise my changes to the linux emulator, and last time I asked for info ... it's quite possible that the huge rash of changes in -current cover some of what you've done, but if all you were to do was send what you have to Peter or Soren I'm quite sure they'd be happy to pick them over. > on the best way to find out the hardware address of an interface I got one > non-useful reply and zero useful replies. I haven't had time to go digging What is it you actually want? I presume when you say 'hardware address of an interface' you're looking for the ethernet MAC address? Look at /usr/src/usr.bin/netstat/if.c for a relatively simple example of how to do it from userland. > Colman -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 14:59:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA09350 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:59:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from paloalto.access.hp.com (daemon@paloalto.access.hp.com [15.254.56.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09345 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by paloalto.access.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA033844360; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:59:21 -0800 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA096284359; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:59:20 -0800 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA284504359; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:59:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199603142259.AA284504359@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: Brian Tao Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 16:57:19 EST." Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:59:18 -0800 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Darryl Okahata wrote: > > > > Somehow, I just can't see *ANY* serial-line-based ISDN modem > > handling this kind of speed. > > Perhaps not, but one P50 costs 6 to 7 times that of a Bitsurfr. You've got a point, but I think the multiplier is closer to 4X, and not 6-7X. I think a full-blown P50 is around US$1250. Isn't a Bitsurfer around US$300? (Not that there's all that much difference between 4X or 7X. ;-() -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 15:13:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA09876 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:13:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09870 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabal.io.org (cabal.io.org [198.133.36.103]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA09200 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:12:53 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.4/8.7.4) id QAA04734; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 16:55:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 16:55:25 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Greg Lehey cc: Chris Lambertus , hackers@freebsd.org, jkrause.padg@sni.de Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? In-Reply-To: <199603140810.JAA25804@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > > You *can* bond the B channels (though not in the current FreeBSD > implementations), Depends on the hardware. I have a cheap little Bitsurfr which will bond it's two B's, and all my FreeBSD box sees is an ultrafast PPP connection out the serial port. > 1. They're more expensive The difference is probably the same as internal vs. external modems. Bell Canada is selling Bitsurfr's for CDN$300 when you sign up for a residential BRI. That's only about 20% more than a good 28.8kbps analog modem. > 2. In my experience, they're *much* less reliable. I haven't had any problems with my ISDN hookup so far. > 3. They require to be connected by an async line. Considering that > 128 kb/s ISDN translates to 160 kb/s async, it's evident that > you can't keep up the same speed. In addition, conventional "El > Cheapo" serial interfaces lose data at this speed. Could be... I haven't tried running with both B channels yet, although my serial port is running at 115.2kbps. > 4. You can't run raw IP over them, mainly because of (3). I suspect most people would be connected via PPP. > 5. You can't use them for connect on demand. The board solution can > allow the system to disconnect after a certain idle time, and then > reconnect when another packet arrives (from either side). ijppp does this for me, and the Bitsurfr also has something called "persistent DTR" which auto-dials stored number #0 if carrier is lost. > 6. I'm not sure about this, but I believe call setup is slower. It takes two seconds from the time I manually dial the number and the time I see the "login:" prompt. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 15:23:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10291 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10286 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA09345 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:22:59 -0800 Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.208]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA07771; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:21:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA20422; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:21:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:21:36 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: Colman Reilly cc: Ivan Lima , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mathematica under FreeBSd In-Reply-To: <9603141539.aa12848@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Colman Reilly wrote: > > I'm very interested in running Mathematica in my FreeBSD box and > someone in the newsgroup said that a few weeks ago someone anounced > success in running Mathematica for Linux under FreeBSD here in the mailing > list. So, if anyone has any information on that please let know. Thanks a > lot, > > That was me. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to clean up and > generalise my changes to the linux emulator, and last time I asked for info > on the best way to find out the hardware address of an interface I got one > non-useful reply and zero useful replies. I haven't had time to go digging > since. If you mail me I'll try and pull out the change I made and give you > instructions on how to apply it for your system, but I warn you that it's > ugly as sin. I don't know how many ohters are interested, but I sure am. I am right now being forced to boot dos and run Mathematica for the Diff Eq class, and this annoys me hugely, besides cutting me off from most of my tools. I asked the Wolfram folks, they said I could chagne from the dos version to the Linux version (student versions, that is) for a nominal charge, so I am extremely interested. I've been watching all this linux stuff fly by, because I don't care to play games, but getting me away from dos, well that's another story. I am going to start learning about the linux emulation. Does the mathematica version for Linux use the zmagic or ELF libs? (I have to know how to start this mess ... I will rtfm). ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 18:39:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21790 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:39:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21782 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA09959; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:09:57 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603142339.KAA09959@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: darrylo@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com (Darryl Okahata) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:09:57 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603141815.AA106347302@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> from "Darryl Okahata" at Mar 14, 96 10:15:01 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Darryl Okahata stands accused of saying: > > Just as a data point, an Ascend P50 can transfer a 518694-byte > /etc/hosts file in 12 seconds, for around 42Kbytes/sec (*bytes*, not > *bits*). This is, of course, being done with compression in the P50. > > Somehow, I just can't see *ANY* serial-line-based ISDN modem > handling this kind of speed. Gimme iijppp and a Hayes ESP card and I reckon we could come pretty awful close. You also forgot to mention that compression in the P50 costs extra. Horses for course; if you can afford the P50, it's a wonderful thing. If you're on a budget, an ISDN modem will give you similar functionality for less cost. > -- Darryl Okahata -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 19:12:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA23806 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 19:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23801 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 19:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA02767; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 19:07:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199603150307.TAA02767@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Darryl Okahata cc: Brian Tao , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:59:18 PST." <199603142259.AA284504359@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 19:07:10 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Darryl Okahata said: > > On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Darryl Okahata wrote: > > > > > > Somehow, I just can't see *ANY* serial-line-based ISDN modem > > > handling this kind of speed. > > > > Perhaps not, but one P50 costs 6 to 7 times that of a Bitsurfr. > > You've got a point, but I think the multiplier is closer to 4X, and > not 6-7X. I think a full-blown P50 is around US$1250. Isn't a > Bitsurfer around US$300? (Not that there's all that much difference I don't shop around, find a friendly FreeBSD ISP who can give a you discount. Who knows ask the list 8) I paid $750 or so for my Ascend Pipeline 50. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 20:27:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA27664 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:27:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27658 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA24312; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:27:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199603150427.UAA24312@austin.polstra.com> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, nate@sri.MT.net Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: <8072.826787455@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:27:06 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan wrote: > > I think you misunderstand. The next release of FreeBSD will be 2.1.5, > > Really? News to me! :-) > > David and I have been assuming 2.1.1 as the proposed release number > ever since the beginning, though 2.1.5 wouldn't particularly phase > me I guess. Hmmmmmm. For what it's worth, the "Release Information" web page at says: The next official release will be 2.1.1 which will be derived from the FreeBSD-stable branch of the development tree. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 20:58:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA29497 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net (dns2.noc.best.net [206.86.0.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29485 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:57:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA16658; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:57:43 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA29244; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:57:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199603150457.UAA29244@geli.clusternet> X-Authentication-Warning: geli.clusternet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Aled Morris cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: Pentium Pro m/b bug question In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:40:30 GMT." <199603141649.QAA18159@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:57:39 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Unrelated question: can someone explain in simple terms why I shouldn't > go out and buy a Pentium Pro system? I understand from this list that > there is some kind of motherboard bug which causes performance problems. > What should I ask my vendor? I was looking at a GW2K system, being > a satisifed previous customer. > Unless your vendor has implemented the fix described in http://pentium.intel.com/procs/support/ppro/82450.htm you will see the following performance ratios for a P6-200 vs. a P5-166 with PB-SRAM: P6/P5 (better than 1.0 expected) Single Narrow-SCSI disk throughput 0.57 DRAM bandwidth 0.73 Single 100BASE-TX NIC throughput 0.44 CPU (ops/sec, all in cache) 3.50 <--- most benchmarks measure this. Good luck, Russell > Aled > -- > telephone +44 973 207987 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 21:01:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA29732 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:01:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (root@RICH.ISDN.BCM.TMC.EDU [128.249.250.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA29727 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:01:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rich@localhost) by rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA21679; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:01:40 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:01:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199603150501.XAA21679@rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu> From: Rich Murphey To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu CC: creilly@maths.tcd.ie, ivan@nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Chuck Robey on Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:21:36 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Mathematica under FreeBSd Reply-to: rich@lamprey.utmb.edu Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |From: Chuck Robey |I don't know how many ohters are interested, but I sure am. I am right |now being forced to boot dos and run Mathematica for the Diff Eq class, |and this annoys me hugely, besides cutting me off from most of my tools. |I asked the Wolfram folks, they said I could chagne from the dos version |to the Linux version (student versions, that is) for a nominal charge, so |I am extremely interested. Umm.. gee, I run the Linux distribution of Mathematica all the time on FreeBSD-current. I can assure you it works just fine, including the X front end and mathbook documentation browser. The emulator generates a few messages about missing ioctls which you can happily ignore, but other than that it works perfectly. |I've been watching all this linux stuff fly by, because I don't care to |play games, but getting me away from dos, well that's another story. I |am going to start learning about the linux emulation. Does the |mathematica version for Linux use the zmagic or ELF libs? (I have to |know how to start this mess ... I will rtfm). They are staticly linked zmagic executables. So you don't have to worry about finding the correct shared libraries at all. The only change I made was to set some environment variables at the head of each of the mathematica shell scrips that in turn invoke mathematica itself: RESOLV_HOST_CONF=/compat/linux/etc/host.conf; export RESOLV_HOST_CONF XKEYSYMDB=/usr/site/math22/lib/X11/XKeysymDB; export XKEYSYMDB where /compat/linux/etc/host.conf can be created by: echo 'order bind,hosts' > /compat/linux/etc/host.conf Rich From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 21:06:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00160 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (root@RICH.ISDN.BCM.TMC.EDU [128.249.250.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00155 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:06:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rich@localhost) by rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA21708; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:06:07 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:06:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199603150506.XAA21708@rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu> From: Rich Murphey To: rich@lamprey.utmb.edu CC: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu, creilly@maths.tcd.ie, ivan@nauplius.rsmas.miami.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: message from Rich Murphey on Thu, 14 Mar 96 23:01:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Mathematica under FreeBSd Reply-to: rich@lamprey.utmb.edu Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |Umm.. gee, I run the Linux distribution of Mathematica |all the time on FreeBSD-current. I can assure you it ^^^^^^^ Oops, I meant to say FreeBSD-stable. I'm using mathematica on FreeBSD-stable. Sorry for the confusion. Rich From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 21:17:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00853 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (root@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu [129.101.114.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00847 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (fn@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pain.csrv.uidaho.edu (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA20249 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:17:22 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #974 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:51:07 EST." <9603141651.AA07752.SM@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:17:21 -0800 Message-ID: <20245.826867041@pain.csrv.uidaho.edu> From: Faried Nawaz Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chet Ramey wrote... application/pgp; cat %s; copiousoutput for mh, one might prefer mhn-show-application/pgp: %ppgp -m '%F' faried -- faried nawaz. PIGLET loves you box 3582, moscow, id 83834-1914, usa linux, the ms-dos of the nineties From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 21:37:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA02704 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02698 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id VAA14307 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:37:49 -0800 Received: (from rmallory@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id VAA22075; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:40:45 -0800 From: Rob Mallory Message-Id: <199603150540.VAA22075@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:40:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603141651.RAA26850@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 14, 96 05:47:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > OK. I'm looking from the other viewpoint: small user, expensive phone > call time, but still an itch in my fingers that makes the 2 seconds > seem interminable too. It's my gut feeling that ppp setup would take > significantly longer. If anybody has any hard figures, I'd be > interested to hear them. Either way, of course, that doesn't alter > the fact that ppp represents protocol overhead which you don't need > under ISDN. > > Greg > >From here at work, "dialing" out of a big pipline box with many lines into it, and over to my pipeline-50 at home: $ time ping mymachine mymachine.qualcomm.com is alive real 6.2 after that, round-trip pings are 42ms. This is the setup time. In preaty much any-case, (raw/slip/mslip/ppp/mppp/ frame-relay) your total setup time is preaty much dependant on dialup-time. in the setup of my box, I am running multilink-ppp, VJ header compression, and (v42?) data compression. and am getting 12KB/s ftps, and more with text files when both b'channels are up. I think this will always beat out "raw IP" over isdn. in the long run...even if you have to wait another month or three to afford the cost of a bridge/router such as the pipeline-50 (with a built in NT1 and ethernet out the other end), I'd _not_ buy a simple TA. get the BR... -- Rob Mallory [rmallory@Qualcomm.com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 14 22:23:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA05318 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 22:23:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05313 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 22:23:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from oscar.cc.gatech.edu (cau@oscar.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.107.12]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.7.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA19281 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:23:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from cau@localhost) by oscar.cc.gatech.edu (8.7.1/8.6.9) id BAA13696 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:23:29 -0500 (EST) From: cau@cc.gatech.edu (Carlos Ugarte) Message-Id: <199603150623.BAA13696@oscar.cc.gatech.edu> Subject: Tips on developing a new SCSI driver? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:23:29 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I asked this a couple of days ago on freebsd-scsi, but I never saw the message come thru (or any responses), so I am asking here. (I did subscribe, and I thought it wasn't a closed list...) I'd like to learn a little more about FreeBSD and hardware by working on a SCSI driver. I have a spare Future Domain 1680 and some free time to go along with it. What I do not have, though, is a clue on where to get started. I've looked at the driver source for a couple of others (aha1542.c, seagate.c) so I get the gist of what would be involved. Is there a skeleton anywhere, or any docs about device driver development? Anything from how the kernel interfaces with the driver, how the configuration file affects things, what other files to touch (I recall seeing a files.i386 somewhere), and so on. Every time you update the driver, do you have to shutdown the system and reboot, or is there a better/easier way? I have a second SCSI hard drive (my system boots off a SCSI drive on an aha1542cf), a DAT drive and a CD-ROM drive, so if I ever get anything running I could test it on different devices. Thanks in advance. Carlos -- Carlos A. Ugarte cau@cc.gatech.edu Author of PageMage, a virtual desktop util for OS/2 http://www.cc.gatech.edu/people/home/cau/ Computer Science Senior at Georgia Tech From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 00:09:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA12104 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 00:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12098 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 00:08:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA17711; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:21:33 +1100 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:21:33 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603150721.SAA17711@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: darrylo@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Just as a data point, an Ascend P50 can transfer a 518694-byte >> /etc/hosts file in 12 seconds, for around 42Kbytes/sec (*bytes*, not >> *bits*). This is, of course, being done with compression in the P50. >> >> Somehow, I just can't see *ANY* serial-line-based ISDN modem >> handling this kind of speed. >Gimme iijppp and a Hayes ESP card and I reckon we could come pretty awful >close. You also forgot to mention that compression in the P50 costs extra. I get 219K/sec for ttcp using pppd on a local line at 115200 bps. Why is the P50 so slow? ;-) (pppd uses bsd compression and ttcp sends highly compressible data.) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 00:26:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA12805 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 00:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun4nl.NL.net (sun4nl.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12800 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 00:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from spase by sun4nl.NL.net via EUnet id AA11474 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:25:53 +0100 Received: from deimos.spase.nl (deimos [192.9.200.239]) by mercurius.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA16724 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:25:29 +0100 From: Kees Jan Koster Received: (dutchman@localhost) by deimos.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) id JAA02869 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:21:50 +0100 Message-Id: <199603150821.JAA02869@deimos.spase.nl> Subject: mprof --> x86 port. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:21:49 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi Hackers, Does anyone know who did the x86 port of mprof-3.0? Thanks in advance. Groetjes, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 00:51:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA13944 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 00:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ter2.fl.net.au (root@ter2.fl.net.au [203.63.198.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA13939 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 00:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiger.fl.net.au (adf@tiger.fl.net.au [203.63.198.11]) by ter2.fl.net.au (2.0/adf) with SMTP id TAA28472 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:52:05 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960316054937.00af3a00@mail.fl.net.au> X-Sender: adf@mail.fl.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:49:37 -1000 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Andrew Foster Subject: Locks. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm quite desperate for help on this machine now : It's a : Pentium 90 Gigabyte Triton motherboard 32MB RAM 4GB Seagate Hawk 1GB IBM SCSI 1GB Quantum SCSI 1.2GB Maxtor EIDE NCR SCSI Controller 256k Trident ISA video card ISA NE2000 card. This machine will either randomly reboot or lock up. When it locks I can switch vty's but not login (no password comes up), I can open some ports that inetd isn't control of, but I can't telnet in or anything. I've replaced : CPU, Motherboard twice, Memory twice. Some of the drives have been added during the time that's I've had problems. All motherboards have been Triton based (inc. ASUSTek). I'm beginning to wonder if it's the NE2000 because 2 other FreeBSD machines I had also locked up like this sometimes, and both had NE2000's. However, I've since used them less (lower loads) and they're working fine. This has happened in -release, -960303-SNAP and now in -stable. I have patched the system correctly. Could anyone please suggest what I could do to fix this. Here is my dmesg : FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE #1: Thu Mar 14 21:32:50 1996 root@cafu.fl.net.au:/usr/src/stable/sys/compile/IMP CPU: 90-MHz Pentium 735\\90 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x524 Stepping=4 Features=0x1bf real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 30715904 (29996K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7 ncr0 rev 2 int a irq 10 on pci0:10 ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr0:0:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q08" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access sd0(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1042MB (2134305 512 byte sectors) (ncr0:1:0): "SEAGATE ST15230N 0298" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 4095MB (8386733 512 byte sectors) (ncr0:2:0): "IBM DPES-31080 S31Q" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(ncr0:2:0): Direct-Access sd2(ncr0:2:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1034MB (2118144 512 byte sectors) (ncr0:4:0): "WANGTEK 6130-HS 4W17" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st0(ncr0:4:0): Sequential-Access st0(ncr0:4:0): 275ns (4 Mb/sec) offset 8. density code 0x13, 1024-byte blocks, write-enabled Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 not found at 0x280 ed1 at 0x300-0x31f irq 5 on isa ed1: address 00:00:01:06:49:18, type NE2000 (16 bit) sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A sio2 not found at 0x3e8 sio3 not found at 0x2e8 lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface lpt1 not found at 0xffffffff lpt2 not found at 0xffffffff fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 1204MB (2467584 sectors), 2448 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S scd0 not found at 0x230 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface changing root device to sd0a WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. Thanks, Andrew Foster ----------- Andrew Foster Sydney, Australia From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 02:03:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA18369 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 02:03:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA18362 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 02:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0txWKg-000I8mC; Fri, 15 Mar 96 11:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0txVM1-00001eC; Fri, 15 Mar 96 09:59 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:59:21 +0100 (MET) Cc: lehey.pad@sni.de, cmlambertus@ucdavis.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, jkrause.padg@sni.de In-Reply-To: <199603141610.KAA22055@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Mar 14, 96 10:10:38 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Connect ISDN via terminal-adaptors/ISDN-"modems"/IP-ISDN routers/PC cards] >From the several possibilities to connect (to the Internet) yourself via ISDN all have their good sides and drawbacks. PC cards: With (active or passive) PC ISDN cards you usually have access to _ALL_ services offered by ISDN: datacommunication, telephony, video, X.25, videotext/cep/btx, and, and, and .... Drawback: change architecture, change hw/sw; finding good sw is not that easy. PC cards emulating a com port or emulating an NE2000 don't fall in this category !!! IP-ISDN routers: you "only" get IP/IPX/etc. packets thru your ISDN link, you cannot do i.e. native ISDN computerized telephony. Good: change architecture, keep router. Terminal-adaptors, ISDN "modems": You have neither direct access to _any_ native ISDN service nor direct IP capabilities but have to go thru serial ports with all their drawbacks. No standardized access like a standard set of Hayes commands, no standard access to protocol configuration, etc, etc. IMHO the worst choice of all three. Good: change architecture, keep adaptor. There are some ISDN adaptors which connect to the SCSI bus avail- able, these seem to have not all of the drawbacks mentioned above, i.e. they allow better configuration. IMHO, if one just needs IP connectivity, one should buy a ISDN-IP router. I recently saw an ad for the new Cisco Pro line which starts with the Pro 750 which contains all you need for IP connectivity for ~1000 USD. If you want more than IP connectivity, get a ISDN card for your hardware, but make shure you get the "right" software! If you cannot afford an IP router and there is no hw/sw combination available for your platform, try go afford an IP router or change your platform so you can buy a suitable hw/sw combination for your platform. I would not even think about buing a TA/ISDN-"modem" .... A friend tested a Zyxel, and the experience was desastrous. The CAPI did not run, it only did X.75 (which noone uses here, IP is (for 99%) done transparently in HDLC over here, so any equipment not capable to do this is useless here!) and so on and so on. Same experience with terminal adaptors, they are simply awful, interoperability seems to be a non-existing word for the manufacturers of such devices. Just my .2 , hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 02:28:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA19825 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 02:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rogerswave.ca (mail.rogerswave.ca [198.231.117.195]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA19818 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 02:28:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from wong.rogerswave.ca (wong.rogerswave.ca [204.92.17.32]) by rogerswave.ca (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id FAA03003; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 05:26:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 05:18:42 -0500 (EST) From: Wong To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" cc: Philippe Regnauld , joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers Subject: Re: Clobbered partititon table .. :-( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > > Is it a problem to have your swap as the first partition? I've always > put it there since that's the fastest part of the disk. If this is a I thought the middle of the disk is the fastest because when the disk is doing nothing it should rest in the middle. resting in the middle would result in less distance to trevel for seek to either end of the platter. Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "we come with nothing, and we leave with nothing" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 02:51:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA21130 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 02:51:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun4nl.NL.net (sun4nl.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA21119 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 02:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from spase by sun4nl.NL.net via EUnet id AA02902 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:50:52 +0100 Received: from deimos.spase.nl (deimos [192.9.200.239]) by mercurius.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA19162 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:51:50 +0100 From: Kees Jan Koster Received: (dutchman@localhost) by deimos.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA03772 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:48:08 +0100 Message-Id: <199603151048.LAA03772@deimos.spase.nl> Subject: g++ and exceptions To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:48:08 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi Hackers, I know this is not the place to ask, but does anyone know how well exceptions have been implemented in g++? I'd like to use exeptions, but I've heard they didn't work all too well. What g++ version supports exceptions in reliably? Are there versions of g++ that I should avoid? By the way, what's the word on gcc 2.7.2 for FreeBSD, how well does it run? Groetjes, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 08:11:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA07556 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07550 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA23199; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:11:06 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603151611.KAA23199@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:11:05 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Mar 15, 96 09:59:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terminal-adaptors, > ISDN "modems": You have neither direct access to _any_ native ISDN service > nor direct IP capabilities but have to go thru serial ports > with all their drawbacks. "direct IP capabilities" is a sayNOTHING. IP always goes through hardware, be it an Ethernet NIC, a sync serial connection and CSU/DSU, an async serial connection and a modem, or a terminal adapter. > No standardized access like a > standard set of Hayes commands, no standard access to > protocol configuration, etc, etc. IMHO the worst choice of > all three. All the terminal adaptors I've seen support AT-style commands. Admittedly, the configuration commands are generally non-portable, but that's a one-shot deal - you only set the TA up once - and all the relevant AT commands you're used to with modems work just fine after that. The ADvantage is that you don't have to go goofing with stupid halfass drivers that don't quite work right or do what you want. You have a well defined interface (i.e. serial link) that is not about to cause you endless grief because of weird things going on. > Good: change architecture, keep adaptor. There > are some ISDN adaptors which connect to the SCSI bus avail- > able, these seem to have not all of the drawbacks mentioned > above, i.e. they allow better configuration. > > IMHO, if one just needs IP connectivity, one should buy a ISDN-IP router. I > recently saw an ad for the new Cisco Pro line which starts with the Pro 750 > which contains all you need for IP connectivity for ~1000 USD. Jesus, I can get a Motorola Bitsurfer and Winsock AND a Hayes ESP card for $350 USD. Or, to put it another way, I can buy three complete ISDN solutions for the price of your one. THAT is a good deal. > If you want more than IP connectivity, get a ISDN card for your hardware, but > make shure you get the "right" software! Yeah, that's sort of the drawback with that idea. With a TA, you don't have to WORRY about the "right" software. It's transparent. Stuff to do IP over serial ports is well tested and widely developed. You don't have to WORK at the solution. > If you cannot afford an IP router and there is no hw/sw combination available > for your platform, try go afford an IP router or change your platform so you > can buy a suitable hw/sw combination for your platform. I would not even think > about buing a TA/ISDN-"modem" .... I have yet to see a good reason.. :-) > A friend tested a Zyxel, and the experience was desastrous. Well if your friend bought junk, which he did, don't blame all the TA's on the planet. The Motorola stuff is rock solid. > The CAPI did not > run, it only did X.75 (which noone uses here, IP is (for 99%) done transparently > in HDLC over here, so any equipment not capable to do this is useless here!) > and so on and so on. Same experience with terminal adaptors, they are simply > awful, interoperability seems to be a non-existing word for the manufacturers > of such devices. I haven't seen any such problems. We all happily speak V.120 here. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 08:58:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA11510 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA11505 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15692(3)>; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:57:50 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:57:40 -0800 To: guido@iaehv.nl (Guido van Rooij) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SIOCGIFBRDADDR In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 96 00:43:25 PST." <199603140843.JAA26397@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:57:38 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Mar15.085740pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199603140843.JAA26397@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> you write: >I believe this is wrong. You should get the broadcast address belonging >to the address specified in the passed ifreq structure. Agreed. I have some patches to do this that I never committed because my stuff that used them wasn't ready, but I will commit them today. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 09:26:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA13424 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13418 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:26:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA02232; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:26:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:26:22 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-Reply-To: <199603141423.IAA06343@jake.lodgenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Eric L. Hernes wrote: > Has anyone on the core team talked to Xinside about this? > They said that you (core) were working on it. If it's just > a matter of -lgnumalloc, or -lphkmalloc (which isn't in 2.1 in > any way shape or form right?) then it seems that they could just > use a better malloc and release it right? Or, is there any more specific info on nature of the leak? I compiled Motif 2.0 from source a week or so ago. I have a 2.1 system, but with phkmalloc in my libc. I have a copy of mwm linked with phkmalloc and one with gnumalloc. From informal observation using top, they appear to behave about the same; the RSS typically ranges from about 900K to 3000K and the VSS hangs out at around 900K. I have not observed any notable leakage. (Unless, of course, you consider motif itself to be a memory leak, but that is a different topic.) Some of the demo programs have memory management bogons that pkhmalloc gripes about. I have yet to go through all the test programs. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 09:35:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA13950 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:35:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13936 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0txdOw-0003weC; Fri, 15 Mar 96 09:34 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA27742; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:34:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: John Fieber cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new malloc/libc... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:26:22 EST." Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:34:48 +0000 Message-ID: <27740.826911288@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone on the core team talked to Xinside about this? > > They said that you (core) were working on it. If it's just > > a matter of -lgnumalloc, or -lphkmalloc (which isn't in 2.1 in > > any way shape or form right?) then it seems that they could just > > use a better malloc and release it right? > > Or, is there any more specific info on nature of the leak? I compiled I have contacted Xinside and will look at the problem. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 10:26:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17310 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17304 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA01373; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:23:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199603151823.KAA01373@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Joe Greco cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ADSL modems? (was Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:23:00 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Say what is the going price for ADSL modems? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 10:52:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA19310 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19295 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16179(8)>; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:51:09 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:51:02 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:10:08 PST." <199603071710.EAA32641@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:50:57 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Mar15.105102pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199603071710.EAA32641@godzilla.zeta.org.au>you write: >gdb over ethernet would be even more interesting. NeXTStep does this. It forces the ethernet driver to be the first one working on new platforms, which is interesting =) Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 11:05:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21260 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20930 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0txelG-000I8mC; Fri, 15 Mar 96 20:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0txeOe-00000iC; Fri, 15 Mar 96 19:38 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:38:40 +0100 (MET) Cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603151611.KAA23199@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Mar 15, 96 10:11:05 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Joe Greco: > I haven't seen any such problems. We all happily speak V.120 here. Perhaps this is why all the TA's work over there, i have not seen anything or anyone speaking V.120 here. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 11:30:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24319 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:30:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from CRVAX.SRI.COM (CRVAX.sri.com [128.18.30.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24314 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: From ROCKY.SRI.MT.NET by CRVAX.SRI.COM with TCP; Fri, 15 MAR 96 11:25:47 PST Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA11752; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:32:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:32:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199603151932.MAA11752@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers%FreeBSD.org@sri.com Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Subject: GAS question Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ I'm bouncing this through sri.com in hopes that it gets to the mailing lists due to Sprintnet problems. Please respond to 'nate@sneezy.sri.com' (it should be setup to do that). ] Can someone explain to me the following piece of code please? I can't find *any* documentation on it, and I've stared at it long enough but still can't answer what it does definitively. Thanks! Nate -------- inline int apm_int(u_long *eax, u_long *ebx, u_long *ecx) { u_long cf; __asm ("pushl %%ebp pushl %%edx pushl %%esi xorl %3,%3 movl %3,%%esi lcall _apm_addr jnc 1f incl %3 1: popl %%esi popl %%edx popl %%ebp" : "=a" (*eax), "=b" (*ebx), "=c" (*ecx), "=D" (cf) : "0" (*eax), "1" (*ebx), "2" (*ecx) ); apm_errno = ((*eax) >> 8) & 0xff; return cf; } Most of this is obvious, but these two lines completely baffle me. : "=a" (*eax), "=b" (*ebx), "=c" (*ecx), "=D" (cf) : "0" (*eax), "1" (*ebx), "2" (*ecx) Obviously it sets up some sort of mapping between the variables & parameters and the assembly level registers, and some comments I've read on similar code implies that it also says something regarding optimizations (similar to volatile and const?). Please help me oh gas gurus. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 11:33:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24508 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24503 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.4/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id LAA26783 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:32:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA04954 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:29:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199603151929.LAA04954@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Calling all Sprint customers... From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:29:29 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you're a Sprint customer, you may have noticed that there is no connectivity to freefall and wcarchive at the moment. This is because Sprint only peers with CRL (our NSP) at the CIX and Sprint's T1 to the CIX is down at the moment. Anyway, this message is to ask all you Sprint customers to call up and complain that 1) Sprint's connection to the CIX is down, and 2) Sprint's refusal to peer with CRL at any other peering location (such as PacBell-NAP, MAE-west, etc) is stupid and is a mistake. Sprint could be peering with CRL at DS3 speeds (again, at MAE-west, PB-NAP, etc), but isn't. Ask them to change this! Thanks. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 11:39:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24982 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24975 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA00351 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:40:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:40:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199603151940.OAA00351@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >All the terminal adaptors I've seen support AT-style commands. Admittedly, >the configuration commands are generally non-portable, but that's a one-shot >deal - you only set the TA up once - and all the relevant AT commands you're >used to with modems work just fine after that. It frightens me that the "future" is in high-speed async... :-) db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 12:51:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29731 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29724 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA18864; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 21:51:30 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA04586; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 21:51:30 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id VAA02384; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 21:47:12 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603152047.VAA02384@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Locks. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 21:47:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: adf@fl.net.au (Andrew Foster) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960316054937.00af3a00@mail.fl.net.au> from "Andrew Foster" at Mar 15, 96 07:49:37 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrew Foster wrote: > This machine will either randomly reboot or lock up. When it locks I can > switch vty's but not login (no password comes up), I can open some ports > that inetd isn't control of, but I can't telnet in or anything. This usually means the processes aren't context-switching anymore. It is often related to disk hangs. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 13:47:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03851 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03844 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id NAA23403; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:46:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603152146.NAA23403@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Tips on developing a new SCSI driver? To: cau@cc.gatech.edu (Carlos Ugarte) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:46:22 -0800 (PST) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603150623.BAA13696@oscar.cc.gatech.edu> from "Carlos Ugarte" at Mar 15, 96 01:23:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok well I can send you a partly done 1680 driver. this driver was for a much earlier version of the scsi system but it might give you some hints.. (this was before the 'scsi_link' structure existed so it doesn't fit into any current SCSI system. but it shoud be a starting point) > > > I asked this a couple of days ago on freebsd-scsi, but I never > saw the message come thru (or any responses), so I am asking > here. (I did subscribe, and I thought it wasn't a closed list...) I didn't see it.. > > I'd like to learn a little more about FreeBSD and hardware by > working on a SCSI driver. I have a spare Future Domain 1680 and > some free time to go along with it. What I do not have, though, > is a clue on where to get started. I've looked at the driver > source for a couple of others (aha1542.c, seagate.c) so I get the > gist of what would be involved. Is there a skeleton anywhere, or > any docs about device driver development? Unfortunatly there is no real docs about it.. the 1542 driver was the original, the 1742 and bt drivers were derived from them and the ultrastore drivers were developed from one of the above. the NCR and aic (adaptec 29xx etc.) drivers were independentlyu written to fit into the framework, using the others as a rough guide. from my recolection the 1680 card is pretty dumb. so you probably should base the driver on one of the drivers for a card that does low level stuff (msg layer stuff) My guess is that the 1522 driver (aic) driver might be suitable as a model. > Anything from how the > kernel interfaces with the driver, how the configuration file > affects things, what other files to touch (I recall seeing a > files.i386 somewhere), and so on. Every time you update the > driver, do you have to shutdown the system and reboot, or is > there a better/easier way? I have a second SCSI hard drive (my > system boots off a SCSI drive on an aha1542cf), a DAT drive and a > CD-ROM drive, so if I ever get anything running I could test it > on different devices. send me questions and I'll be glad to help. I'll try send you the 1670 driver separatly. I make no judgements about how good it is because it was written by someone else and I haven't looked at it much.. It could read but failed on writing julian > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 15:58:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA12667 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12655 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:58:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA29741 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:58:25 -0800 Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA02917; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:56:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199603152356.PAA02917@austin.polstra.com> To: nate@sneezy.sri.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GAS question Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:56:56 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can someone explain to me the following piece of code please? I > can't find *any* documentation on it, and I've stared at it long > enough but still can't answer what it does definitively. > ... > inline int > apm_int(u_long *eax, u_long *ebx, u_long *ecx) > { > u_long cf; > __asm ("pushl %%ebp > pushl %%edx > pushl %%esi > xorl %3,%3 > movl %3,%%esi > lcall _apm_addr > jnc 1f > incl %3 > 1: > popl %%esi > popl %%edx > popl %%ebp" > : "=a" (*eax), "=b" (*ebx), "=c" (*ecx), "=D" (cf) > : "0" (*eax), "1" (*ebx), "2" (*ecx) > ); > apm_errno = ((*eax) >> 8) & 0xff; > return cf; > } > > > Most of this is obvious, but these two lines completely baffle me. > > : "=a" (*eax), "=b" (*ebx), "=c" (*ecx), "=D" (cf) > : "0" (*eax), "1" (*ebx), "2" (*ecx) This is GCC's "extended asm" syntax. The documentation is in the GCC info pages. From the top-level node, follow the menu entry "C Extensions", then "Extended Asm". Here's a quick answer for this specific case. The stuff after the first colon specifies the output operands of the assembly code. The stuff after the second colon specifies the input operands. The quoted strings are GCC "constraints," which say more or less specifically where each operand will be. In parentheses is the corresponding C expression for each operand. For the output operands, the constraints here refer to specific hardware registers: "a" means %eax "b" means %ebx "c" means %ecx "D" means %edi The "=" on each output operand is required by gcc; it says that the operand will be modified. For the input operands, the "0", "1", and "2" say that the three inputs correspond in location to the first three output operands. In other words, these operands are read, modified, and written back to the same place. In the assembly code itself, "%3" refers to third operand. For this, the operands are numbered from 0, output operands first, then input operands. Here, "%3" refers to the local variable "cf", which, according to its constraint "=D", is in the register %edi. Someday when you're feeling masochistic, you can read all about it in the info pages. Let me know if this doesn't help enough. -- John From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 18:03:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA18420 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:03:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18380 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA02064 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:02:02 -0800 Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA22524; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:03:20 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:03:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Maximum size of the ARP cache? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How can I change this? An obvious #define didn't show itself. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 19:09:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA24756 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA24737 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:08:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.4/8.7.4) id QAA02257; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 16:37:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 16:37:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Locks. In-Reply-To: <199603152047.VAA02384@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Andrew Foster wrote: > > > This machine will either randomly reboot or lock up. When it locks I can > > switch vty's but not login (no password comes up), I can open some ports > > that inetd isn't control of, but I can't telnet in or anything. > > This usually means the processes aren't context-switching anymore. It > is often related to disk hangs. > *raises hand* are there any known problems with the current drivers in -stable that would cause a disk hang? I'm noticing the same problem on a system with 4 drives, each drive with a 32meg or larger SWAP partition on it... that is being *heavily* used (ie. I'm into about 38-60Meg of swap on that machine) She usually takes about 2+ days before it hangs though, the last time it did it 1:40hrs ago, you could hear the disk thrashing away, I presume on news unbatching, and then it just hung. Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 19:53:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA27071 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27015 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA03442 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:52:33 -0800 Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA23515; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:54:14 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:54:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Numerous warnings in -current kernel compile Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anybody looked at them to see if they're significant? I can look at them, but it's the significant part that I wouldn't have a clue on. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 15 23:56:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA15809 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 15 Mar 1996 23:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA15803 Fri, 15 Mar 1996 23:56:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 23:56:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199603160756.XAA15803@freefall.freebsd.org> To: dutchman@spase.nl Subject: Re: mprof --> x86 port. Cc: hackers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone know who did the x86 port of mprof-3.0? As it so happens, I do know who did the x86 port of mprof-3.0. Why are you looking for him? Jeffrey From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 01:46:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA22586 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 01:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from paloalto.access.hp.com (daemon@paloalto.access.hp.com [15.254.56.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA22579 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 01:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from fakir.india.hp.com by paloalto.access.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA072289600; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 01:46:46 -0800 Received: from localhost by fakir.india.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA119769876; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:21:16 +0530 Message-Id: <199603160951.AA119769876@fakir.india.hp.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NFS problems w/ HPUX 9.0.5 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:21:15 +0530 From: A JOSEPH KOSHY Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, This one has me stumped at the moment. I'm mounting a disk from an HPUX 9.0.5 machine via NFS. I find that if I'm reading/writing simultaneously from the remote disk data gets corrupted. The same sequence of operations across two FreeBSD boxes works fine. Here is how to replicate the problem: consider two machines, `REMOTE' and a FreeBSD box `LOCAL'. on REMOTE : export /fs1 -maproot=root etc from LOCAL : copy /usr/src/sys to REMOTE:/fs1/sys # copy tree first on LOCAL: cd REMOTE:/fs1; # reads only find ./sys -type f -print | xargs md5 > /tmp/md5-r This gets you the first set of checksums. Then on LOCAL do the following two commands simultaneously on the remote mounted partition. cd REMOTE:/fs1/sys; mkdir ../sys2; find . -print | cpio -pdum ../sys2 & # copy tree and ... cd REMOTE:/fs1; find ./sys -type f -print | xargs md5 > /tmp/md5-rw # read it Ie. we run the checksumming on the original tree while the copy over NFS is in progress. Diff /tmp/md5-r /tmp/md5-rw | more --> lots of differences if `REMOTE' was not a FreeBSD box --> no problems if `REMOTE' is a FreeBSD box Incidentally the same procedure repeated across two HPUX boxes works fine. So it looks like there is some kind of NFS incompatibility between FreeBSD and HPUX. I don't have access to any Suns that I could test against. I'd be interested to know if any others on the list have encountered this problem. Is there anything I can do to work around this problem? I'm running FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE on a P5/16MB/500MB-IDE HP Vectra. Koshy From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 02:49:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA25157 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 02:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA25152 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 02:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trDke-0009YrC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 16:58 PST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:58:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Christoph Kukulies cc: Sean Kelly , kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199602261704.SAA01438@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > OK, these may be my opinions but I think others my come to similar > conclusions. Tcl/Tk isn't something that knocks you off your socks, > same is Motif. I played with tkWM - pleppedeplepp. Where is an IDE > (Integrated development environment)? I doubt that Tcl/Tk > would develop as the incending force to produce myriads of applications > in a manner Win32 does. Spend a day with a Win32/MSVC++ programmer. > You would want to have this under Unix. > > -provoke mode off :-) I agree 100%!! Once I started using Win32/MFC/VC++ I really started to feel disappointed in the traditional Unix programming tools, including Motif. Typically you spend 10 times as much money under Sun (for tools that aren't even available for FreeBSD, or even Linux) and you get an environment that do maybe 1/2 of what Visual C++ does. As for the free tools, well, GCC and Emacs are nice, but make is a pain, and GDB (even xxgdb) is so tedious, I'd rather just put "printf"'s into my program to debug it!!! Basically, my plan is to take the FreeBSD utilities, port them to Win32 with full GUI interfaces (I mentioned the details in another post), then eventually be able to "back-port" them to FreeBSD, probably using TWIN. If not, then at least the core functionality will be wrapped into C++ classes, so some other enterprising person could write their own user interface (whether Motif, Tcl/Tk, or whatever) around it. Basically, by making Win32 versions of Unix utilities, I aim not only to make my own environment more convenient when I'm in Windows, but also to provoke the Unix world to maybe realize what is wrong with traditional command-line utilities and administration tools. Face it, any idiot can administer Windows NT, but it takes a lot of work to design a full-featured OS that anyone can administrate. I wish Unix would become THAT easy to administer, and THAT easy to program, then it has a chance to be that much more popular! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 02:53:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA25303 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 02:53:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA25296 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 02:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id NAA01152 for freebsd.org!hackers; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:55:03 +0300 Organization: SPb State University Received: (from root@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01389 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:52:29 +0300 From: Alexey Pialkin Message-Id: <199603161052.NAA01389@localhost> Subject: VM386 & DOS emulation To: freebsd.org!hackers@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:52:28 +0000 (WET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! Does anybody work on VM386 and(or) DOS Emulation ? Please e-mail to me. Thanx. -- /====================================U _a' /( / Alexey Pialkin N ~~ _}\ \( - / Internet: root@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru I \(,_(,\\ / FidoNet: 2:5030/247 X ._>, _>,``==> From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 03:37:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA27530 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 03:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA27524 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 03:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA22588; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 03:36:46 -0800 To: Jake Hamby cc: Christoph Kukulies , Sean Kelly , narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:58:46 PST." Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 03:36:44 -0800 Message-ID: <22584.826976204@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I agree 100%!! Once I started using Win32/MFC/VC++ I really started to > feel disappointed in the traditional Unix programming tools, including > Motif. Typically you spend 10 times as much money under Sun (for tools I don't think that anyone will disagree with you that the power of MFC, VB or even things like PowerBuilder are totally absent from the traditional UNIX environment. Remember - I've worked for people like Lotus and DEC and I know the issues involved when people want to port a Windows application to UNIX. You, as the UNIX person, generally get to have lots of conversations with the Windows development group that go like this: "You don't have foo? Uh, ok, what about bar? No BAR? How about a BAZ toolkit? What?? NO BAZ TOOLKIT?!? How the &*%$*@! do you guys write apps? Oh.. You don't? Huh! That explains a lot, actually.." The best development environment I ever found for doing "Motif" style apps was OI, but of course they killed that instantly. Some day I'll find out that OpenWare is really owned by Microsoft through a cut-out.. :-) However, let's not get carried away. That is to say: > Basically, my plan is to take the FreeBSD utilities, port them to Win32 > with full GUI interfaces (I mentioned the details in another post), then > eventually be able to "back-port" them to FreeBSD, probably using TWIN. Bleah. I don't think that's going to fly given that the TWIN development environment is _not free_. We're helping them to port it just so the option is there for those that need it, but we won't be able to use it ourselves. To continue: > If not, then at least the core functionality will be wrapped into C++ > classes, so some other enterprising person could write their own user > interface (whether Motif, Tcl/Tk, or whatever) around it. Basically, by Unless that enterprising person is you, I see this all as a monumentally wasted effort. Sure, I can hack all manner of clever utilities out (and was even able to use my beloved OI for the job during a very short period of time there) but if I can't share them with the rest of the community, they're truly useless and I should be spending my time and energy working on more universal tools, even if all they do is use ncurses to scribble on the screen. That's why I didn't release any of my OI-using utilities like adduser (which I did for fun) - they wouldn't have done anyone else any good. Please keep this in mind as you implement whatever system it is you have in mind. I don't think that Win32 is a bad API, necessarily, and it's not impossible to implement a version of MFC that speaks Motif or something else since that's exactly what Bristol Technologies has done (http://www.bristol.com:80/Products/windu.html). You just need to provide *both* sides of the equation before it's going to be useful to anyone. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 06:32:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA05599 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 06:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA05594 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 06:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA04918; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 09:27:04 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199603160927.JAA04918@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 09:27:04 +0000 () Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, kelly@yarmouth, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 26, 96 04:58:46 pm Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > OK, these may be my opinions but I think others my come to similar > > conclusions. Tcl/Tk isn't something that knocks you off your socks, > > same is Motif. I played with tkWM - pleppedeplepp. Where is an IDE > > (Integrated development environment)? I doubt that Tcl/Tk > > would develop as the incending force to produce myriads of applications > > in a manner Win32 does. Spend a day with a Win32/MSVC++ programmer. > > You would want to have this under Unix. > > > > -provoke mode off :-) > > I agree 100%!! Once I started using Win32/MFC/VC++ I really started to > feel disappointed in the traditional Unix programming tools, including > Motif. Just rambling from a kernel person: DITTO!!! I have unfortunately involved in flamewar-age :-), complaining about the limited development tools that the U**X community appears to be happy with. Lets face it, the current development tool suite is GREAT for os code and text utilities, but we need better tools to develop fancy GUI applications for the windows-ites :-). I would applaud the development of FREE (I mean really FREE) tools for efficient GUI program development. It would be important that the code generated by such tools be non-(re)distribution encumbered!!! I would be so happy if my OS/KERNEL work would be enhanced by better and more applications develoment tools... I would even perhaps be enticed to write application code (watch out!!!) John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 07:30:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA08315 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 07:30:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA08309 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 07:30:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA24173; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 09:29:19 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603161529.JAA24173@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 09:29:18 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603151940.OAA00351@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Mar 15, 96 02:40:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >All the terminal adaptors I've seen support AT-style commands. Admittedly, > >the configuration commands are generally non-portable, but that's a one-shot > >deal - you only set the TA up once - and all the relevant AT commands you're > >used to with modems work just fine after that. > > It frightens me that the "future" is in high-speed async... :-) Me too. However, the alternatives are relatively so much more expensive... Sync serial requires a fairly pricey sync serial card. (Sorry Dennis, much as I like your products, the truth of the matter is that I can get a 16550 dual port card for $30). Ethernet bridges are pricey AND require you to spend yet more cash on an Ethernet card for the PC. Unfortunately lots of folks are cost-sensitive, so even though async may be technologically "less superior" (unless somebody writes a driver for the Hayes ESP cards in enhanced mode)... Sigh. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 08:01:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA09954 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09949 Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA24282; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:00:15 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603161600.KAA24282@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: dyson@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:00:15 -0600 (CST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, kelly%yarmouth@freefall.freebsd.org, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603160927.JAA04918@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Mar 16, 96 09:27:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would be so happy if my OS/KERNEL work would be enhanced by better > and more applications develoment tools... I would even perhaps be > enticed to write application code (watch out!!!) John, Don't get any ideas. You aren't going anywhere until you have the VM system tuned well enough that FreeBSD runs in a single megabyte of RAM with X running and all sorts of compiles going on with no noticeable performance degradation.... if you get any more silly ideas we might just have to go buy a bunch of duct tape and tape you into your chair. :-) :-) :-) :-) for the smiley impaired. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 08:11:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA10280 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10272 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03414; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:12:06 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:12:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199603161612.LAA03414@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >All the terminal adaptors I've seen support AT-style commands. Admittedly, >> >the configuration commands are generally non-portable, but that's a one-shot >> >deal - you only set the TA up once - and all the relevant AT commands you're >> >used to with modems work just fine after that. >> >> It frightens me that the "future" is in high-speed async... :-) > >Me too. However, the alternatives are relatively so much more expensive... > >Sync serial requires a fairly pricey sync serial card. (Sorry Dennis, much >as I like your products, the truth of the matter is that I can get a 16550 >dual port card for $30). Thats not the point (although you enjoy harping on it). The reason the sync products are so expensive is because there's a limited market for them. Heck, the card only costs a few dollars more to build...but as long as the proliferation of async continues, sync will be a premium product. I still find it terribly interesting that people will spend a fortune on horsepower of questionable necessity (like P6s and 166Mhz cpus to run a terminal server) but want to use $30. async cards for the most important bottleneck in their network. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 08:45:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA16846 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:45:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA16821 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA24374; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:44:09 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603161644.KAA24374@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft "Get ISDN"? To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:44:09 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603161612.LAA03414@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Mar 16, 96 11:12:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Me too. However, the alternatives are relatively so much more expensive... > > > >Sync serial requires a fairly pricey sync serial card. (Sorry Dennis, much > >as I like your products, the truth of the matter is that I can get a 16550 > >dual port card for $30). > > Thats not the point (although you enjoy harping on it). No, I don't. It is simply a fact that must be dealt with. You were saying, as I recall, that the "future is in high-speed async" and that "frightens" you. I agree! I'm simply listing that as one of the key reasons that this situation exists. I doubt there would be any discussion about which was superior given a good sync serial card that was perhaps on par with the prices of the Hayes ESP async card. > The reason the sync products > are so expensive is because there's a limited market for them. Heck, the > card only > costs a few dollars more to build...but as long as the proliferation of > async continues, > sync will be a premium product. And, as I originally implied, that's unfortunate. > I still find it terribly interesting that people will spend a fortune on > horsepower of > questionable necessity (like P6s and 166Mhz cpus to run a terminal server) but > want to use $30. async cards for the most important bottleneck in their network. Are there really people doing that? Sheesh... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 09:19:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA19599 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 09:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19582 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 09:19:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA02492; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:20:47 +0200 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:20:47 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199603161600.KAA24282@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ignoring all the rules of the etiquette, I striped down the message header, so that the reply goes only to the list (it just seemed to me that all the on the list anyways)... On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > I would be so happy if my OS/KERNEL work would be enhanced by better > > and more applications develoment tools... I would even perhaps be > > enticed to write application code (watch out!!!) > > John, > > Don't get any ideas. You aren't going anywhere until you have the VM system > tuned well enough that FreeBSD runs in a single megabyte of RAM with X > running and all sorts of compiles going on with no noticeable performance > degradation.... if you get any more silly ideas we might just have to go > buy a bunch of duct tape and tape you into your chair. > IMHO it would require some enhancements to some other components as well in addition to the vm code... Anyways, instead of tape we should "buy" some GUI design programmers instead - or do it ourselves. (All the ideas above are just mine - send all flames directly here - it could be a little warmer in the March round here.) > :-) :-) :-) :-) for the smiley impaired. > > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 > Sander Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:11:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA21973 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA21963 Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA03656; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:10:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199603161810.KAA03656@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dyson@FreeBSD.org cc: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby), kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, kelly@yarmouth, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Application Development In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 1996 09:27:04 GMT." <199603160927.JAA04918@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:10:29 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "John S. Dyson" said: > I would be so happy if my OS/KERNEL work would be enhanced by better > and more applications develoment tools... I would even perhaps be > enticed to write application code (watch out!!!) Thats the 60k line of codes question: What do we need to entice people to write applications and/or can someone come up with a long list of applications so that when new volunteers come on board they could at least have an idea of whats needed? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:18:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA22294 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22289 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:18:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA01605; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:21:23 -0700 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:21:23 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603161821.LAA01605@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Good computer store in L.A.? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know a good store to buy computers from in L.A.? My boss's sister is looking for her first PC, but wants to buy something high-end so she can run WNT with 4.0 comes out and has no need to upgrade the box in 6 months. However, she's no power user, so something fairly pedestrian would work. She's got the money, so my boss wants to set her up with a 133/150Mhz P5, SCSI, multi-media (of course) and a mid-range graphics card/monitor setup. I figure we should be able to get something in the mid 3K range. If anyone could let me know of a store in L.A. that they trust, or give me a recommendation (or send me a quote Rod *grin*) on some of the mail-order companies that would be good I'd appreciate it. What do folks think of the Micron stuff? Should we wait for the Triton-II (she'd like to get it running fairly soon). I'd like to find a not so over-worked 'Rod' in L.A. if possible to do on-site support. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:33:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA22813 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:33:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22808 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA03892; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:31:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199603161831.KAA03892@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Narvi cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:20:47 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:31:45 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Two things that can can attract more individuals to FreeBSD: o ability to run Win32 applications -- hows the Willows Project coming along? A few people that I have spoken to have said that if they could run win32 apps they would use freebsd. The funny thing is that I didn't notice a hesitation on their part 8) Another reason, is to attract Win32 application developers to FreeBSD. Perhaps, I am naive however I think that many would love to dump Win3.1 and Win95. o fast internent connection: isdn, adsl, etc... isdn is specially very attractive since it is becoming very popular. It is very hard for me to think of the days in which I was connected to the Net via a 9600 or 14.4baud modem. It sort of reminds me of the 300baud days 8) For many moons now, hackers at least in the US have avoided even thinking about writing ISDN support for FreeBSD. That my friends is a shame. Once you are connected to the internet via a high speed link is kind of hard to have your system Off-Line 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:35:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA22985 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22980 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA03913; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:34:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199603161834.KAA03913@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Good computer store in L.A.? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:21:23 MST." <199603161821.LAA01605@rocky.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:34:14 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Nate Williams said: > What do folks think of the Micron stuff? Should we wait for the > Triton-II (she'd like to get it running fairly soon). I would wait for Triton-II and its USB support. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:39:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23152 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:39:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23146 Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17539; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:32:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603161832.LAA17539@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Application Development To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:32:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jehamby@lightside.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, kelly@yarmouth, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603161810.KAA03656@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 16, 96 10:10:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Thats the 60k line of codes question: What do we need to entice people > to write applications and/or can someone come up with a long list > of applications so that when new volunteers come on board they > could at least have an idea of whats needed? > > Amancio A GUI builder so that all they have to do is fill in case statements with calls to their code. A decent visual debugger. For instance, in the MS debugger, if you let the pointer sit on a variable on the screen for a second, it will display the value of the variable. The ability to click on compilation error mesages and go to the offending line of code (with the offending portion(s) of the statement highlighted. A "colorized" editor (a friend of mine keeps threatening to "colorize" vi ... he must have Ted Turner in his family tree somewhere. 8-)). A market for the finished products so that the investment/reward ratio is somewhere near that for Windows. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:48:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23502 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23497 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17568; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:41:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603161841.LAA17568@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: NFS problems w/ HPUX 9.0.5 To: koshy@india.hp.com (A JOSEPH KOSHY) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:41:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603160951.AA119769876@fakir.india.hp.com> from "A JOSEPH KOSHY" at Mar 16, 96 03:21:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This one has me stumped at the moment. > > I'm mounting a disk from an HPUX 9.0.5 machine via NFS. I find that if > I'm reading/writing simultaneously from the remote disk data gets corrupted. OK... but your "test" doesn't provide evidence for this. > The same sequence of operations across two FreeBSD boxes works fine. > > Here is how to replicate the problem: consider two machines, `REMOTE' > and a FreeBSD box `LOCAL'. > > on REMOTE : export /fs1 -maproot=root etc > > from LOCAL : > copy /usr/src/sys to REMOTE:/fs1/sys # copy tree first > > on LOCAL: > > cd REMOTE:/fs1; # reads only > find ./sys -type f -print | xargs md5 > /tmp/md5-r > > This gets you the first set of checksums. > > Then on LOCAL do the following two commands simultaneously on the > remote mounted partition. > > cd REMOTE:/fs1/sys; mkdir ../sys2; > find . -print | cpio -pdum ../sys2 & # copy tree and ... > cd REMOTE:/fs1; > find ./sys -type f -print | xargs md5 > /tmp/md5-rw # read it > > > Ie. we run the checksumming on the original tree while the copy > over NFS is in progress. > > Diff /tmp/md5-r /tmp/md5-rw | more > > --> lots of differences if `REMOTE' was not a FreeBSD box > --> no problems if `REMOTE' is a FreeBSD box > > Incidentally the same procedure repeated across two HPUX boxes works fine. Apparently, the difference is whether the reallocated pages are zero-filled, or whether they contain their previous contents when you rewrite them. I don't see that this is a problem... if the data is to be overwritten anyway, then its value is irrelevant. This seems to be a client-cache/server cache interaction. If it causes you a problem, you will need to turn off either the client cache (if you leave the server cache on) or vice versa. This isn't the same problem as the corruption problem from the other day, which I think would repeat BSD-to-BSD or HP-to-HP if tested (the problem there is that it's hard to come up with a test for that case). If you are going to have multiple clients operating on the same file, you must use a loging protocol of some kind. > So it looks like there is some kind of NFS incompatibility between FreeBSD > and HPUX. I don't have access to any Suns that I could test against. > I'd be interested to know if any others on the list have encountered this > problem. Is there anything I can do to work around this problem? > > I'm running FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE on a P5/16MB/500MB-IDE HP Vectra. Can you toggle whether or not you do client caching on the client, or server caching on the server? What version of the NFS protocol are you using? If you are using NFS v3, do you have leases on or off? They are set seperately from other NFS kernel options (see /sys/i386/conf/LINT for more information). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:48:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23536 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:48:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23531 Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:48:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA03987; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:47:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199603161847.KAA03987@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jehamby@lightside.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, kelly@yarmouth, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Application Development In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:32:57 MST." <199603161832.LAA17539@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:47:44 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > A market for the finished products so that the investment/reward ratio > is somewhere near that for Windows. That I think is the answer to my question. We need a very, very strong developer who is willing to tackle the problem. As for me , if the development environment is superior to the microsoft development and that shouldn't be hard to do I will buy it. (It is much easier to invent a better wheel once you have seen a good wheel) The price of the product has to be cheap enough so that we can attract many individuals. At any rate, thats how microsoft did initially they developed an IDE and then dump the market thus forcing or displacing Borland. You should have seen my face when I bought V++ a few years ago for less than $200 the figure $100 floats in my mind;however, the important point here is that it did not cost $10000! Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:53:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23822 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:53:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23812 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from cantina.clinet.fi (root@cantina.clinet.fi [194.100.0.15]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) with ESMTP id UAA22463; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:52:08 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by cantina.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) id UAA11323; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:52:08 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:52:08 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199603161852.UAA11323@cantina.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: "Marc G. Fournier" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: "Marc G. Fournier"'s message of 16 Mar 1996 05:18:25 +0200 Subject: Re: Locks. Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article "Marc G. Fournier" writes: On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Andrew Foster wrote: > > > This machine will either randomly reboot or lock up. When it locks I can > > switch vty's but not login (no password comes up), I can open some ports > > that inetd isn't control of, but I can't telnet in or anything. > > This usually means the processes aren't context-switching anymore. It > is often related to disk hangs. *raises hand* are there any known problems with the current drivers in -stable that would cause a disk hang? I'm noticing the same problem on a system with 4 drives, each drive with a 32meg or larger SWAP partition on it... that is being *heavily* used (ie. I'm into about 38-60Meg of swap on that machine) She usually takes about 2+ days before it hangs though, the last time it did it 1:40hrs ago, you could hear the disk thrashing away, I presume on news unbatching, and then it just hung. Switch NCR controllers to Adapteks. If you have any parallel printers connected, remove them. Helps a bit, but does not make wonders. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi mobile +358-40-5519679 work +358-0-4375360 fax -4555276 home -8031121 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 10:57:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23998 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23993 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17601; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:52:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603161852.LAA17601@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:52:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603161831.KAA03892@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 16, 96 10:31:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Two things that can can attract more individuals to FreeBSD: [ ... ] > o fast internent connection: isdn, adsl, etc... > isdn is specially very attractive since it is becoming very popular. > It is very hard for me to think of the days in which I was connected > to the Net via a 9600 or 14.4baud modem. It sort of reminds me of the > 300baud days 8) > > For many moons now, hackers at least in the US have avoided even > thinking about writing ISDN support for FreeBSD. That my friends > is a shame. It's a matter of principle. ISDN is evil, plus it priced out of the range of usability in my area anyway. ISDN is evil because it is technologically possible to charge connect time charges; if something can be done, it eventually will. Even PacBell, the ISDN king, has a reservation clause in their Tarrif that lets them reduce the number of "free-hours-before-time-charges", so if you think you are safe, think again. It would cost me in excess of $3000 to write an ISDN driver because of the need to have two cards and two lines (since there is no one else to talk ISDN to in this very expensive area except very expensive ISPs), not to mention programming documentation. Many people in the US are in the same boat (or worse). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 11:04:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24319 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:04:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24314 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:04:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA04166; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:02:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199603161902.LAA04166@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ISDN Vs. ADSL,... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:52:00 MST." <199603161852.LAA17601@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:02:37 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Okay, Terry you have an excuse but what about the many programmers in California specially the ones in the Bay Area with the vast amount of resources available to them? BTW: I am looking around for ADSL modems anyone knows where I can get two cheap ones! Tnks, Amancio >>> Terry Lambert said: > > Two things that can can attract more individuals to FreeBSD: > > PacBell, the ISDN king, has a reservation clause in their Tarrif that > lets them reduce the number of "free-hours-before-time-charges", so if > you think you are safe, think again. > It would cost me in excess of $3000 to write an ISDN driver because of > the need to have two cards and two lines (since there is no one else to > talk ISDN to in this very expensive area except very expensive ISPs), > not to mention programming documentation. Many people in the US are > in the same boat (or worse). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 11:07:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24533 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:07:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24527 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:07:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA04210; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:07:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199603161907.LAA04210@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Application Development In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:32:57 MST." <199603161832.LAA17539@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:07:03 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > A decent visual debugger. For instance, in the MS debugger, if you > let the pointer sit on a variable on the screen for a second, it will > display the value of the variable. Hmmm.... I thought that ddd and ups where decent debuggers. ups being the more user friendly. Say does anyone know whats the current status of ups for FreeBSD? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 11:28:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA25472 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:28:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA25459 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 11:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA02813; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:29:03 +0200 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:29:02 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199603161831.KAA03892@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > Two things that can can attract more individuals to FreeBSD: > > o ability to run Win32 applications -- hows the Willows Project coming along? > > A few people that I have spoken to have said that if they could run > win32 apps they would use freebsd. The funny thing is that I didn't > notice a hesitation on their part 8) > > Another reason, is to attract Win32 application developers to FreeBSD. > > Perhaps, I am naive however I think that many would love to dump > Win3.1 and Win95. Many would love not to be forced to *buy* the next version of windows as it comes out with a new load of bugs/inconsistences... It isn't said on the cover of Win95 that it is not the full Win32 but stripped down a bit. > > o fast internent connection: isdn, adsl, etc... > isdn is specially very attractive since it is becoming very popular. > It is very hard for me to think of the days in which I was connected > to the Net via a 9600 or 14.4baud modem. It sort of reminds me of the > 300baud days 8) > > For many moons now, hackers at least in the US have avoided even > thinking about writing ISDN support for FreeBSD. That my friends is a shame. > I'm not in the US... And I really don't have any resources to develop abything for ISDN - it's not that much available round here, and even if it was, I wouldn't have the money. So I can't help. > Once you are connected to the internet via a high speed link is kind of > hard to have your system Off-Line 8) > The highest speed I have seen coming from a site outside of our Republic is 17Kb/s... > > Amancio > Sander Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 12:29:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29274 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29267 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA03005; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:31:20 +0200 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:31:18 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Application Development (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Thats the 60k line of codes question: What do we need to entice people > > to write applications and/or can someone come up with a long list > > of applications so that when new volunteers come on board they > > could at least have an idea of whats needed? > > > > Amancio > > A GUI builder so that all they have to do is fill in case statements > with calls to their code. > > A decent visual debugger. For instance, in the MS debugger, if you > let the pointer sit on a variable on the screen for a second, it will > display the value of the variable. > > The ability to click on compilation error mesages and go to the offending > line of code (with the offending portion(s) of the statement highlighted. > > A "colorized" editor (a friend of mine keeps threatening to "colorize" > vi ... he must have Ted Turner in his family tree somewhere. 8-)). > > > A market for the finished products so that the investment/reward ratio > is somewhere near that for Windows. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Ok, ok - I'll try to do what I can. I have a feeling I will learn many things I haven't otherwise. Could some just fish out a reference to a real RDBMS (no toys - I mean something like Oracle, Gupta, Informix, etc.) running on FreeBSD so that I would not have to throw it out of my server and replace it with Windows NT or OS/2 when the money for the database arrives (and it will). Sander Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 12:38:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29759 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA29649 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.4/8.7.4) id PAA04859; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:27:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:27:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Locks. In-Reply-To: <199603161852.UAA11323@cantina.clinet.fi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Heikki Suonsivu wrote: > Switch NCR controllers to Adapteks. If you have any parallel printers > connected, remove them. Helps a bit, but does not make wonders. > So, there is a problem with the SCSI drivers then? and adaptec contollers reduce that problem? and getting rid of any parallel printers reduces it further? Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 12:39:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29798 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29793 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:39:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA03809 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:41:47 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:41:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199603162041.PAA03809@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Two things that can can attract more individuals to FreeBSD: > >o ability to run Win32 applications -- hows the Willows Project coming along? Its important to note how WELL they run. Remember how macs were going to take over the world when they could run Windows programs? Too bad they were too slow to actually use. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 12:39:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29818 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:39:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (ZGIK-1-MGTS-28.8K.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29784 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from bcs.UUCP by frya.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua with UUCP id WAA10045; (8.6.11/vak/1.8e) Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:32:48 +0200 Received: by relay1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (uumail v1.5/ache) id AA02650; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:27:50 +0200 Received: from bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.29]) by relay1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA02647 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:27:49 +0200 Received: by bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA01477 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:27:48 +0200 From: Sergey Shkonda Message-Id: <199603162027.AA01477@bcs1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: core dump in tr To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:27:44 +0200 (UKR) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Try tr "A-B" "C-D" ( A, B, C, D > 127 ) *** extern.h.O Sat Mar 16 22:15:04 1996 --- extern.h Sat Mar 16 22:14:28 1996 *************** *** 40,46 **** int lastch; /* last character */ int equiv[2]; /* equivalence set */ int *set; /* set of characters */ ! char *str; /* user's string */ } STR; #include --- 40,46 ---- int lastch; /* last character */ int equiv[2]; /* equivalence set */ int *set; /* set of characters */ ! u_char *str; /* user's string */ } STR; #include From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 15:32:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA07937 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA07931 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:32:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.4/8.6.12) id HAA06654 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 17 Mar 1996 07:32:18 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 16 Mar 96 22:47:38 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199603161831.KAA03892@rah.star-gate.com>, <199603161852.LAA17601@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) writes: >> Two things that can can attract more individuals to FreeBSD: >[ ... ] >> o fast internent connection: isdn, adsl, etc... >> isdn is specially very attractive since it is becoming very popular. >> It is very hard for me to think of the days in which I was connected >> to the Net via a 9600 or 14.4baud modem. It sort of reminds me of the >> 300baud days 8) >> >> For many moons now, hackers at least in the US have avoided even >> thinking about writing ISDN support for FreeBSD. That my friends >> is a shame. >It's a matter of principle. ISDN is evil, plus it priced out of the >range of usability in my area anyway. >ISDN is evil because it is technologically possible to charge connect >time charges; if something can be done, it eventually will. Even >PacBell, the ISDN king, has a reservation clause in their Tarrif that >lets them reduce the number of "free-hours-before-time-charges", so if >you think you are safe, think again. Huh? So, long distance voice is also "evil" because that's time charged too? It sounds to me like you want something that behaves like a leased line but dont want to pay for it. I didn't know that you had free T1 and 56K links in the US... >It would cost me in excess of $3000 to write an ISDN driver because of >the need to have two cards and two lines (since there is no one else to >talk ISDN to in this very expensive area except very expensive ISPs), >not to mention programming documentation. Many people in the US are >in the same boat (or worse). Dont forget, most PRI ISDN links are 2B+D, so you've got two independent 64K links.. Many ISDN cards are also dual channel, so you can call yourself from one channel to the other.. :-) Mind you, you're in a great position over there compared to *.au.. Here, the phone company owns the NT1, so everything you connect to the S0 bus has to be "approved", including the software. ie: developing the software yourself is completely out of the question here. This is partly the case here because ISDN is implemented as an "overlay" network, where the local exchanges do not speak ISDN at all. The exchange is fitted with a B-mux (B-channel multiplexor) and all the PRI circuits are carried back to a more central exchange over a 2Meg link. These B-Muxes are notoriously unreliable and crash at the slightest provacation, taking you and the other users down with it. Result: they dont *dare* let users beat them up via custom software. Nobody that I know of uses ISDN for anything but permanent connections, which, incidently, is what we use it for. This may change once the exchange upgrade is complete and every exchange will speak ISDN just as easily as voice and the horrible annual line rental comes down. (We've just had a change of government, and one of the election promises was to accelerate the upgrade and to make the domestic ISDN prices comparable to voice) -Peter > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 17:09:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA11812 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11806 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:09:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpp.minn.net (mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA17201 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:09:08 -0800 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id TAA01078 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:07:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603170107.TAA01078@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Can't reach freefall To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:07:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Pritchard" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I haven't been able to connect to freefall since the T1 switch. Here is a traceroute from my machine (mpp.minn.net) to freefall.freebsd.org: Script started on Sat Mar 16 16:50:31 1996 1% traceroute freefall.freebsd.org traceroute to freefall.freebsd.org (204.216.27.4), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 pm4.Minn.Net (204.157.201.20) 139.474 ms 138.574 ms 135.192 ms 2 Router.Minn.Net (204.157.201.1) 153.430 ms 143.587 ms 133.197 ms 3 net99-minn-1.net99.net (204.157.1.93) 162.784 ms 166.712 ms 177.447 ms 4 mae-east.washington.net99.net (204.157.38.1) 255.847 ms 241.185 ms 246.259 ms 5 mae-east.agis.net (192.41.177.145) 263.945 ms 280.057 ms 320.919 ms 6 * * * 7 * * mae-east.agis.net (192.41.177.145) 207.018 ms !H 8 * * mae-east.agis.net (192.41.177.145) 242.670 ms !H 9 * * mae-east.agis.net (192.41.177.145) 212.972 ms !H 10 * * * 11 * * * 12 * mae-east.agis.net (192.41.177.145) 236.652 ms !H * 13 * * mae-east.agis.net (192.41.177.145) 289.007 ms !H 14 * * * 15 mae-east.agis.net (192.41.177.145) 249.240 ms !H * * 16 * *^C 2% 2% exit Script done on Sat Mar 16 16:52:55 1996 And here is a traceroute from freefall.freebsd.org to mpp.minn.net: Script started on Sat Mar 16 16:52:20 1996 1% traceroute mpp.minn.net traceroute to mpp.minn.net (204.157.201.242), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 gatekeeper.cdrom.com (204.216.27.1) 2.173 ms 2.058 ms 2.036 ms 2 T1-CRL-SFO-01-EX.US.CRL.NET (165.113.118.1) 14.504 ms 5.492 ms 5.060 ms 3 F0-CRL-SFO-01-F0/0.US.CRL.NET (165.113.55.1) 8.577 ms 7.921 ms 12.479 ms 4 165.113.55.20 (165.113.55.20) 7.520 ms 6.405 ms 18.721 ms 5 smds.west.cix.net (149.20.64.1) 130.033 ms 210.164 ms 199.302 ms 6 agis.west.cix.net (149.20.64.8) 22.561 ms * 34.507 ms 7 * * * 8 * * * 9 * * * 10 * * * 11 * * * ^C 2% exit Script done on Sat Mar 16 16:53:58 1996 It looks like the agis sites are screwed up. Can someone on that end poke them and see what is up? If I asked my ISP to do it, I would be lucky if they even thought about looking into it sometime in the next 3 months. I also heard a number of complains on the #freebsd channel on irc today about being able to reach freefall, so it sounds like I'm not alone. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 17:23:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA12301 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:23:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (root@neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12289 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:23:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.4/8.7.3) id UAA00397 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:23:09 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603170123.UAA00397@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: jaz drive problems... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:23:09 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just recently got a JAZ drive, and am having a few problems. The most annoying is that when I use a JAZ cartridge in it, mount it with a filesystem and then unmount it, the JAZ drive for some reason still thinks that the cartridge in it is being used, and the little eject button the JAZ drive has will not cause the disk to be ejected. If I try to then remount it, I get this error: root@neon % mount /jaz /dev/sd3s1c on /jaz: Device busy This unfortunately ends up limiting me to using 1 cartridge in the drive, and only being able to mount it once, limiting its funcionality to less than that of a regular hard drive! Does anyone have any idea how to make the unmount code properly tell the drive it's no longer being used so that the cartridges can be ejected and reinserted, as well as mount/unmounted more than once? Thanks in advance for any help! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 18:12:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA14769 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 18:12:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14764 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 18:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA14331; Sun, 17 Mar 1996 13:08:38 +1100 Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 13:08:38 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603170208.NAA14331@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jdp@polstra.com, nate@sneezy.sri.com Subject: Re: GAS question Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> ... >> inline int >> apm_int(u_long *eax, u_long *ebx, u_long *ecx) >> { >> u_long cf; >> __asm ("pushl %%ebp >> pushl %%edx >> pushl %%esi >> xorl %3,%3 >> movl %3,%%esi >> lcall _apm_addr >> jnc 1f >> incl %3 >> 1: >> popl %%esi >> popl %%edx >> popl %%ebp" >> : "=a" (*eax), "=b" (*ebx), "=c" (*ecx), "=D" (cf) >> : "0" (*eax), "1" (*ebx), "2" (*ecx) >> ); >... >In the assembly code itself, "%3" refers to third operand. For fourth :-) >this, the operands are numbered from 0, output operands first, then >input operands. Here, "%3" refers to the local variable "cf", >which, according to its constraint "=D", is in the register %edi. It would be better style, and perhaps more efficient, to let gcc load the fourth operand with 0 (add `, "3" (0)' to the list of input operands), but the resulting asm is too hard for gcc to handle. The problem can be avoided by doing all the indirections explicitly (introduce local variables a = *eax, b = *ebx, c = *ecx ...). There seems to be a fifth input arg for apm_addr(), namely `%esi = 0'. This should be handled using another input operand `, "S" (0)', except possibly if the stacked %esi is an arg for apm_addr(). The pushing and popping of registers should be handled using a clobber list: : "bp", "dx" except possibly if the stacked registers are args for apm_addr(). Does apm_addr() really clobber %ebp? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 18:30:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA15799 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 18:30:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA15793 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 18:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA18373; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:24:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603170224.TAA18373@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:24:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Peter Wemm" at Mar 16, 96 10:47:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Huh? So, long distance voice is also "evil" because that's time charged > too? Yes. > It sounds to me like you want something that behaves like a leased line > but dont want to pay for it. I didn't know that you had free T1 and 56K > links in the US... Hardly. I want something like a network connection with no one's nose in where my endpoint is for a particular packet or series of packets. If the packets happen to conatin voice data and happen to be going to Japan... well, them's the breaks. > Dont forget, most PRI ISDN links are 2B+D, so you've got two independent 64K > links.. Many ISDN cards are also dual channel, so you can call yourself from > one channel to the other.. :-) US West is (or was) 2D + B. Non-standard ISDN. So no dice. I'd need two lines. > Mind you, you're in a great position over there compared to *.au.. Here, > the phone company owns the NT1, so everything you connect to the S0 bus has > to be "approved", including the software. ie: developing the software > yourself is completely out of the question here. So change your government -- Aussie's have sufferage! 8-) 8-). > This is partly the case here because ISDN is implemented as an "overlay" > network, where the local exchanges do not speak ISDN at all. The exchange > is fitted with a B-mux (B-channel multiplexor) and all the PRI circuits > are carried back to a more central exchange over a 2Meg link. These B-Muxes > are notoriously unreliable and crash at the slightest provacation, taking > you and the other users down with it. Result: they dont *dare* let users > beat them up via custom software. So buy hardware from the US. It's not like we can install it in our service areas for our own use. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 19:15:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA18129 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18107 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:15:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA01074; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:13:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199603170313.TAA01074@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:24:20 MST." <199603170224.TAA18373@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:13:04 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > > So buy hardware from the US. It's not like we can install it in > our service areas for our own use. 8-). Write us one of those legenday long letters and I for one will be happy to fax it , email it or snail mail to our congress. Got to admit that it would be a cool page to add in www.freebsd.org perhaps right on the front page: Political Issues: Why Johnny has a slow link Given that this is an election year here in the US , now is a great time to raise a stink about the current state of affairs with respect to bandwith issues . Future wars will be fought not for information but for bandwith 8) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 19:42:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA19576 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA19571 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA18496; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:35:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603170335.UAA18496@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:35:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, peter@jhome.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603170313.TAA01074@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 16, 96 07:13:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > So buy hardware from the US. It's not like we can install it in > > our service areas for our own use. 8-). > > Write us one of those legenday long letters and I for one will be > happy to fax it , email it or snail mail to our congress. > > Got to admit that it would be a cool page to add in www.freebsd.org > perhaps right on the front page: > > Political Issues: > Why Johnny has a slow link > > > Given that this is an election year here in the US , now is a great > time to raise a stink about the current state of affairs with > respect to bandwith issues . > > Future wars will be fought not for information but for bandwith 8) Actually, Intel wrote a long letter, and it's a pretty good one, for low cost flat rate ISDN tariff (the US West Tariff in Arizona is $187/month for flat rate, as opposed to $29/month from PacBell for you weenies in California). Intel sent the letter to the AZ an UT PCC/PUC's; among other things, it suggests people attend the rate hearings, and that all US West states get together for one big consensus. Which, if it happens, means that there will be little monetary incentive to actually upgrade the central office equipment to support ISDN. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 19:57:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA20437 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA20430 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA18530; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:52:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603170352.UAA18530@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: GAS question To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:52:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603152356.PAA02917@austin.polstra.com> from "John Polstra" at Mar 15, 96 03:56:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Most of this is obvious, but these two lines completely baffle me. > > > > : "=a" (*eax), "=b" (*ebx), "=c" (*ecx), "=D" (cf) > > : "0" (*eax), "1" (*ebx), "2" (*ecx) > > This is GCC's "extended asm" syntax. The documentation is in the GCC > info pages. From the top-level node, follow the menu entry "C > Extensions", then "Extended Asm". > > Here's a quick answer for this specific case. The stuff after the > first colon specifies the output operands of the assembly code. > The stuff after the second colon specifies the input operands. > The quoted strings are GCC "constraints," which say more or less > specifically where each operand will be. In parentheses is the > corresponding C expression for each operand. > > For the output operands, the constraints here refer to specific hardware > registers: > > "a" means %eax > "b" means %ebx > "c" means %ecx > "D" means %edi > > The "=" on each output operand is required by gcc; it says that the > operand will be modified. > > For the input operands, the "0", "1", and "2" say that the three inputs > correspond in location to the first three output operands. In other > words, these operands are read, modified, and written back to the same > place. > > In the assembly code itself, "%3" refers to third operand. For > this, the operands are numbered from 0, output operands first, then > input operands. Here, "%3" refers to the local variable "cf", > which, according to its constraint "=D", is in the register %edi. Oh god, this sucks. A VC++ C variable reference from an inline addembler statement: void foo( unsigned long locklist) { unsigned long delta; ... __asm mov eax, delta __asm mov ebx, locklist ... } And Assembly for a C callable function (Win95 blue screen from a VXD, actually): IFSMgr_SYSMODAL_Message PROC C PUBLIC USES EBX EDI ESI \ pszMessage:DWORD, \ pszCaption:DWORD, \ dwFlags:DWORD VxDCall Get_Sys_VM_Handle ; handle in ebx mov eax, dwFlags mov ecx, pszMessage mov edi, pszCaption VxDCall SHELL_SYSMODAL_Message ; bluescreen with message ret IFSMgr_SYSMODAL_Message ENDP A C function without any preamble/postamble, and block inline assembly: __declspec(naked) void _peneter(save_edx) { _asm { mov eax, esp pushfd cli push eax mov edx, save_edx ... popfd ret } } Variable references are plain old variable references. Why is GCC so complicated? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 21:10:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22764 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.think.com (Mail1.Think.COM [131.239.33.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22759 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from Early-Bird-1.Think.COM by mail.think.com; Sun, 17 Mar 96 00:10:07 -0500 Received: from compound (fergus-29.dialup.cfa.org) by Early-Bird.Think.COM; Sun, 17 Mar 96 00:10:04 EST Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound (8.6.12/8.6.112) id XAA16862; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:10:48 -0600 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:10:48 -0600 Message-Id: <199603170510.XAA16862@compound> From: Tony Kimball To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603170357.TAA20448@freefall.freebsd.org> (owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org) Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #986 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Digest reply... From: BTW: I am looking around for ADSL modems anyone knows where I can get two cheap ones! PairGain claims their 2d generation models will be out in June/July "between $600 and $1000". This is the "Etherphone" model. With two of these and a dry pair, I should get 4Mb/s downloads and 640Kb/s uploads through my ISP. ISDN is obsolete. From: Ok, ok - I'll try to do what I can. I have a feeling I will learn many things I haven't otherwise. Could some just fish out a reference to a real RDBMS (no toys - I mean something like Oracle, Gupta, Informix, etc.) running on FreeBSD so that I would not have to throw it out of my server and replace it with Windows NT or OS/2 when the money for the database arrives (and it will). Postgres95. It's free, so you can have it in place and in production *before* the money comes. Fait accompli. http://s2k-ftp.CS.Berkeley.EDU:8000/postgres95/ From: Variable references are plain old variable references. Why is GCC so complicated? Because it is portable. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 21:13:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22896 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:13:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22889 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id QAA11569; Sun, 17 Mar 1996 16:11:36 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199603170511.QAA11569@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 16:11:36 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603170335.UAA18496@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 16, 96 08:35:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > Actually, Intel wrote a long letter, and it's a pretty good one, for > low cost flat rate ISDN tariff (the US West Tariff in Arizona is > $187/month for flat rate, as opposed to $29/month from PacBell for > you weenies in California). To echo Peter Wemm's comments .. for _one_ 64k channel in Oz .. Once only installation ........ 2 x $396 ......... $ 792 (one each end) Annual Rental ................. 2 x $960 ......... $ 1920 Semi-Permanent Connection .... (for < 8km) ....... $ 2172 .. or an up-front charge of $A4884 (~$3663). That's a recurring $A341/~$US256 per month _before_ you get it connected to the 'net. The above just gets two connected U-reference tails one at each chosen location. Oh, you want to connect it to the 'net ? .. add $A8600/~$US6450 (once off) for the router plus $A2000/~$US1500 each month if you use less than 25% of the 64k (more for more, up to $A9k/~$US6.75k a month at 100%). Since we /have/ changed governments, you wanna buy shares in Telstra, Terry ? :-) If you time your installation properly, Telstra will "generously" waive the $792 ISDN installation fee but the remainder is "undiscountable" :-( Note that I didn't include the cost of the Telstra-supplied NT1 so's you can connect S-bus gear (e.g. sun, cisco, etc). I forget how much the rent is on that .. michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 21:37:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA23612 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ter2.fl.net.au (root@ter2.fl.net.au [203.63.198.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA23607 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiger.fl.net.au (adf@tiger.fl.net.au [203.63.198.11]) by ter2.fl.net.au (2.0/adf) with SMTP id QAA11468 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 1996 16:38:51 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960318023546.00a647d0@mail.fl.net.au> X-Sender: adf@mail.fl.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 16:35:46 -1000 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Andrew Foster Subject: Booting problems Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've just put an Adaptec 2940 in my system, and I've got this problem : Normally boot from sd0. However, when I do this with this controller I just get cycled between the F1 BSD Default: F? prompt. Hitting F1 takes me back to this Default: prompt. Now, if I put the installation boot disk in A:, and at the FreeBSD Boot prompt type : sd(0,a)/kernel My system boots up fine. Could someone PLEASE tell me how to fix this? This is on my unstable machine (hopefully this new controller will fix it), but it means if the machine reboots it won't come back up properly. Thanks, Andrew ----------- Andrew Foster Sydney, Australia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 22:26:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA25254 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:26:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA25249 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:26:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA11556; Sun, 17 Mar 1996 01:25:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199603170625.BAA11556@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: Tony Kimball cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #986 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:10:48 CST." <199603170510.XAA16862@compound> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 01:25:56 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: > > BTW: I am looking around for ADSL modems anyone knows where I can > get two cheap ones! > > PairGain claims their 2d generation models will be out in June/July > "between $600 and $1000". This is the "Etherphone" model. With two > of these and a dry pair, I should get 4Mb/s downloads and 640Kb/s > uploads through my ISP. This presumes that you can get dry pair betwixt you and your "ISP", which is going to be a pretty good trick more and more. When the T1 circuits are delivered muxed up on a T3 bearer, it becomes an interesting problem. It's never really been clear to me how the ADSL stuff gets deployed on the public network, rather than on private facilities. It's getting more and more common that the major telecom facilities in a office building are on fiber systems, either async 150Mbs systems, or OC-3/OC-12 SONET systems. The copper you see is for POTS lines, and it some cases, it pops out of a T1 channel bank at the site. The larger Internet Backbone Operators (like UUNET, who I work for) are looking really, really hard at technologies to aggregate and multiplex customer connections. In the "bad old days", we'd have an seperate external box with a CSU/DSU, V.35 (or EIA 530 cable), and high speed serial port on a router for each circuit. Just working the power, space and cable managment problems for a rack of 16 T1 CSU/DSUs, 16 DSX-1/T-1 cables, and 16 V.35/RS-530 cables is quite a signifcant resource. All that stuff is just there to be broken and take up space, power, and HVAC. The technology in use today has equipment with integral T1 CSU/DSUs. This is solely because of the space and labor (that is operational expense) required to terminate all these T1 connections. When you elimate all those components, the capital costs go down, as do the maintenance costs. The stuff we're looking for tomorrow has DS3 bearers, each carrying a bundle of 28 T1 circuits. That is, a pair of coax right into the termination equipment, and the T1 circuits never see twisted pair cable; they're demuxed in the hardware.. The challange is to figure how how to terminate hundreds of customer T1 circuits per site, and this stuff just has to be compact (or even better, not even there in the first place). The tough part is figuring out where you put random ADSL hardware into this picture. It will be interesting to see what the pentration of ADSL hardware will be into the market. Much of the stuff that I've seen from the local RBOC has been ADSL capacity installed to support video trails, which they're trying to figure out how to use. With more and more customer premise equipment being manufactured with integral T1 CSU/DSUs, it will be interesting to see what they can do with it. From the RBOC's perspective, they'll need a critical mass to want to support this stuff in their infrastructure. The other interesting hardware you may see more commonly is HDSL, which can deliver standard T1 transmission over lesser quality twisted pair facilities. It has the advantage of popping out at a standard DSX-1 signal level, which can be DACS/MUXed easily as required in the Central office, since it's compatible with existing vast infrastructure of T1 transmission gear that they have. > ISDN is obsolete. Hey, the technology works pretty well. It's a tariff/rate problem that needs to be solved.. Louis Mamakos From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 23:08:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA26588 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:08:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.think.com (Mail1.Think.COM [131.239.33.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA26583 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:08:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from Early-Bird-1.Think.COM by mail.think.com; Sun, 17 Mar 96 02:08:00 -0500 Received: from compound (fergus-29.dialup.cfa.org) by Early-Bird.Think.COM; Sun, 17 Mar 96 02:07:56 EST Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound (8.6.12/8.6.112) id BAA17752; Sun, 17 Mar 1996 01:08:32 -0600 Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 01:08:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199603170708.BAA17752@compound> From: Tony Kimball To: louie@TransSys.COM Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603170625.BAA11556@wa3ymh.transsys.com> (louie@TransSys.COM) Subject: ADSL Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 01:25:56 -0500 > of these and a dry pair, I should get 4Mb/s downloads and 640Kb/s > uploads through my ISP. This presumes that you can get dry pair betwixt you and your "ISP", which is going to be a pretty good trick more and more. Personally, I can get a dry pair to my ISP for $48/mo from US Worst, but I can't buy ISDN at any price, and the Magellan up the street languishes. > ISDN is obsolete. Hey, the technology works pretty well. It's a tariff/rate problem that needs to be solved.. 300 baud modem technology works pretty well too, but I'm not buying any. Not obsolete generally, perhaps, but certainly it is undesirably inferior technology for internetworking in short-hauls. If US West woke up tomorrow, I'm not so sure I'd be willing to pay for a pair of TAs, since I'd be selling them in June anyhow, to switch to ADSL. As you can tell I'm rather sour on ISDN and bullish on ADSL. US West can do that to a person. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 23:09:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA26627 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:09:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from lesti.hut.fi (vode@lesti.hut.fi [130.233.224.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA26622 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from vode@localhost) by lesti.hut.fi (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA19448; Sun, 17 Mar 1996 09:09:07 +0200 Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 09:09:07 +0200 Message-Id: <199603170709.JAA19448@lesti.hut.fi> From: Kai Vorma To: Frank Seltzer cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Frank Seltzer's message of 17 Mar 1996 05:03:50 +0200 Subject: Re: Linux PPP upgrade causes problems Reply-to: Kai.Vorma@hut.fi References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My Linux using ISP just upgraded his PPP version to 2.2.0e and I can no longer access the net from his system. I am using user level PPP from -stable of about a month and a half ago (early Feb) and have had no problems Sounds familiar. Try adding to /etc/ppp/ppp.conf disable pred1 deny pred1 That helped me some months ago when our Linux PPP server was upgraded. ..vode From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 23:26:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA27554 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA27543 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA27501; Sun, 17 Mar 1996 18:23:58 +1100 Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 18:23:58 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603170723.SAA27501@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jdp@polstra.com, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: GAS question Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@sneezy.sri.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > : "=a" (*eax), "=b" (*ebx), "=c" (*ecx), "=D" (cf) >> > : "0" (*eax), "1" (*ebx), "2" (*ecx) >> >> This is GCC's "extended asm" syntax. The documentation is in the GCC >> info pages. From the top-level node, follow the menu entry "C >> Extensions", then "Extended Asm". >Oh god, this sucks. Does not. >A VC++ C variable reference from an inline addembler statement: >void >foo( unsigned long locklist) >{ > unsigned long delta; > ... > __asm mov eax, delta > __asm mov ebx, locklist > ... >} This is very primitive. Instead of letting the compiler decide which registers to use, you have to do all the register loading yourself. This wastes your time, and wastes the cpu's time doing unnecessary moves if the registers are already in suitable places (delta in eax and locklist in ebx in the above). >And Assembly for a C callable function (Win95 blue screen from a VXD, >actually): >IFSMgr_SYSMODAL_Message PROC C PUBLIC USES EBX EDI ESI \ > pszMessage:DWORD, \ > pszCaption:DWORD, \ > dwFlags:DWORD > VxDCall Get_Sys_VM_Handle ; handle in ebx > mov eax, dwFlags > mov ecx, pszMessage > mov edi, pszCaption > VxDCall SHELL_SYSMODAL_Message ; bluescreen with message > ret >IFSMgr_SYSMODAL_Message ENDP Assembly for a C callable function in gas: foo: ret :-) >A C function without any preamble/postamble, and block inline assembly: >__declspec(naked) void >_peneter(save_edx) >{ > _asm { > mov eax, esp > pushfd > cli > push eax > mov edx, save_edx > ... > popfd > ret > } >} The preamble/postamble can't be avoided for extern functions in gcc asm (it's always needed for pic and profiling code anyway). The above should be written as an inline functions if the `...' part is short. >Variable references are plain old variable references. Why is GCC so >complicated? It's more powerful. Plain old variable references are used, just not in the part that looks like it will be processed by the assembler. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 16 23:53:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA28362 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28350 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:53:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA00765; Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:52:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199603170752.XAA00765@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Tony Kimball cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: ADSL In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Mar 1996 01:08:32 CST." <199603170708.BAA17752@compound> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 23:52:50 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Tony Kimball said: > Personally, I can get a dry pair to my ISP for $48/mo from US Worst, but > I can't buy ISDN at any price, and the Magellan up the street languishes. Cool, I just checked out PairGain's Web Page --- the future looks bright 8) http://www.pairgain.com/ Enjoy, Amancio