From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 03:34:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA26932 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 03:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA26882 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 03:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA04240 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:32:51 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 29 Sep 96 13:32:51 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id NAA00920; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:29:35 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199609291029.NAA00920@nagual.ru> Subject: Re: setlocale question In-Reply-To: <199609290437.GAA05650@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at "Sep 29, 96 06:37:35 am" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:29:35 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, imp@village.org From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, cat seems to require a setlocale(), though > > setlocale(LC_CTYPE, ""); > > is probably sufficient. It is needed in case the -v option is > specified. No, cat not require setlocale() (old variant, at least). It uses isascii() for -v which is locale-independend. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 06:22:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA28957 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 06:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA28890 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 06:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA00837; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:21:29 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA28542; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:21:28 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA06956; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:55:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609291255.OAA06956@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: setlocale question To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:55:11 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: imp@village.org, ache@nagual.ru (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199609291029.NAA00920@nagual.ru> from "[?KOI8-R?]" at "Sep 29, 96 01:29:35 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As [?KOI8-R?] wrote: > No, cat not require setlocale() (old variant, at least). > It uses isascii() for -v which is locale-independend. It should use isprint(). Read the description of -v in the man page: -v Displays non-printing characters so they are visible. Control ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Since this will move it away from being ASCII-centric, it should perhaps also use \xxx notation for non-printable characters instead of this M-x crap. Alas, this would move us away from the other BSDs again. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 06:59:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA28445 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 06:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bigpuppy.newell.arlington.va.us (mcnsisdn.newell.arlington.va.us [206.27.237.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA28395 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 06:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mnewell@localhost) by bigpuppy.newell.arlington.va.us (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA17622; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:55:20 -0400 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:55:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Newell To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Weirdness with routing to freefall. In-Reply-To: <199609271757.KAA10119@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > I heard it would be fixed when enough companies changed to a provider > other than Sprint, siting that as the reason for the change. 8-|. Gee, I'm on MCI and I've been quite surprised lately; my connections to WC never fail and always seem to be reasonably fast... I kind of LIKE having others come through Sprint - improves MY performance!! :-> BTW, from my office network to WC is 8 hops, 3 of which are internal to the MAE. Much obliged, Mike +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ | Mike Newell | The opinions expressed herein | | Affiliation: | are mine. You can take them or | | Address: | leave them. Flames to /dev/null. | +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ | Mike@Newell.arlington.va.us | http://www.newell.arlington.va.us | +--------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ | "Peace. It's wonderful!" Father Divine. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 07:30:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA16725 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 07:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA16672 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 07:30:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id PAA00926; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:15:25 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01639; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:20:07 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:20:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: Charles Henrich , mark@quickweb.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: P6 200 performance In-Reply-To: <199609261411.QAA14432@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > Charles Henrich writes: > I don't want to beat this topic to death but one last question - otherwise > we should go to freebsd-hardware - from what board revision upwards > should I buy? Board revision ? Of what board ? Did I miss a mail ? Or do you mean: which chipset, which would be more interesting ;) -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 08:27:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA21470 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [193.125.152.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21434 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA15769 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:25:08 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 29 Sep 96 19:25:07 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id TAA00468; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:05:59 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199609291605.TAA00468@nagual.ru> Subject: Re: setlocale question In-Reply-To: <199609291255.OAA06956@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at "Sep 29, 96 02:55:11 pm" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:05:58 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, imp@village.org From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As [?KOI8-R?] wrote: > > > No, cat not require setlocale() (old variant, at least). > > It uses isascii() for -v which is locale-independend. > > It should use isprint(). Read the description of -v in the man page: > > -v Displays non-printing characters so they are visible. Control > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Since this will move it away from being ASCII-centric, it should > perhaps also use \xxx notation for non-printable characters instead of > this M-x crap. Alas, this would move us away from the other BSDs > again. Hmm. We already use locale for *vis() functions, propably it is time to implement it in cat too. I'll take care of it, if nobody disagree. IMHO, it will be better to preserve M-x notation to be compatible with *vis/*unvis functions and other BSDs. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 08:31:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA23017 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA22993 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr14.etinc.com (dialup-usr14.etinc.com [204.141.95.130]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04782; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:40:25 -0400 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:40:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199609291540.LAA04782@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: stack Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> The resulting file did not conatin only zero's. I think this is weird. >> >>No, again, I believe this is perfectly within the language specification. > >Acessing uninitialized variables gives undefined behaviour. A high >quality implementation could send you mail about it. The bottom line is that in Programming 101 all stack (local) variables were to be assumed to be uninitialized. Nothing has changed, and if they have they shouldn't have. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 08:35:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA25848 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25808 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA06112 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:33:20 +0200 (MET DST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: isdn code Reply-to: phk@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:33:19 +0200 Message-ID: <6110.844011199@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support from developers. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 10:05:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA16461 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16377 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA05723 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:04:52 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA02764 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:04:51 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA07938 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:54:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609291654.SAA07938@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: setlocale question To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:54:48 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199609291605.TAA00468@nagual.ru> from "[?KOI8-R?]" at "Sep 29, 96 07:05:58 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As [?KOI8-R?] wrote: > > Since this will move it away from being ASCII-centric, it should > > perhaps also use \xxx notation for non-printable characters instead of > > this M-x crap. Alas, this would move us away from the other BSDs > > again. > IMHO, it will be better to preserve M-x notation to be compatible > with *vis/*unvis functions and other BSDs. The only problem is that non-ASCII locales could (in theory) have characters where !isprint() && !iscontrol() doesn't necessarily mean that bit 7 is set. Thus, the M-x transcription would be bogus. It is not very useful at all, \xxx is better understandable. (Are Americans really used to know which character M-c actually is?) OTOH, this is currently no problem (and most likely never will be?) since all the non-ASCII locales contain the entire ASCII set in the bottom half. The bigger problem is that IMHO, for ISO-8859-x, the characters in the range \200 thru \220 are also control characters, but they cannot simply be expressed by ^X notation (unless one considers something like ^Á a useful notation). What do other people (including the NetBSD guys listening here) think? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 11:08:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA19127 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19091 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA02470; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:08:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199609291808.OAA02470@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: P6 200 performance To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com (Andreas Klemm) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE, mark@quickweb.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Andreas Klemm at "Sep 29, 96 03:20:07 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Charles Henrich writes: > > I don't want to beat this topic to death but one last question - otherwise > > we should go to freebsd-hardware - from what board revision upwards > > should I buy? > > Board revision ? Of what board ? Did I miss a mail ? > Or do you mean: which chipset, which would be more interesting ;) I didnt write that :) -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 11:30:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06288 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06261 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.Beta.6/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id NAA18230; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:29:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.15) id ; Sun, 29 Sep 96 13:29 CDT Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.Beta.6/8.8.Beta.3) id NAA09746; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:29:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199609291829.NAA09746@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Subject: Re: patch against SYN floods (RED impl.) To: apg@demos.net (Paul Antonov) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:29:52 -0500 (CDT) Cc: apg@demos.net, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Paul Antonov" at Sep 28, 96 00:47:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199609271937.VAA02005@gvr.win.tue.nl> Guido van Rooij > writes: > > >> I've tested in on SYN attacks with over 1000pps rate, and it works > >> reasonably well. > > >Seeing your patch: isn't it much quicker to walk down the so_q0 list and > >get the pcb's from there? > > Surely, I just found why I was unable to do it - in the body of loop > I've written tp = sototcpcb(so) instead of tp = sototcpcb(sp) and was > much confused to see all sockets on LISTEN state :) I hate do things on > the run, but sometimes you need to ... (patch elided) I see that the tail drop patch has been committed to -CURRENT. Are there plans to commit this one in its place? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available | 23 Chicagoland Prefixes, 13 ISDN, much more Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 11:42:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15786 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15752 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14610 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 29 Sep 1996 20:42:17 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA00495 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:10:31 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199609291810.TAA00495@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: adding functionality to lpd To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:10:30 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Has anybody ever tried to incorporate the changes to printcap/lpd found in the lprps package by James Clark? And then more specifically the 'ms' keyword for printcap. Figgling with the fc,fc etc gives me severe headaches, so I might try to hack it into the lpd e.a. sources if this in unchartered terrain. Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 11:58:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA27593 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA27558 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00888; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609291858.LAA00888@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Tomas Klockar cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: wdc1 not found In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 29 Sep 1996 01:32:22 +0200." <199609282332.BAA09732@father.ludd.luth.se> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:58:31 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Depending upon which kernel you are running , there is solution to the gus pnp : Grab ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/guspnp3-current.tar.gz If the sound driver compiles fine for you with you FreeBSD-current then you are okay. However, if you have a more recent -current. You need to do the following to your kernel Makefile: INCLUDES= -nostdinc -I- -I. -I$S -I/sys/i386/isa/sound -I/sys/sys ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Add the above undersigned include path In /sys/i386/isa/sound/soundcard.c , delete the reference the following: #ifdef FreeBSDcurrent #include "sys/devconf.h" #endif In other words "sys/devconf.h" is no longer part of -current. ------------ Also this applies to guspnp3 for all versions of -current: in /sys/i386/isa/sound/local.h #define DSP_BUFFSIZE 65536 to #define DSP_BUFFSIZE 65536/2 Read the Readme file to learn how to configure the gus pnp with the new driver is very easy. If you have any further questions just e-mail me. Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Tomas Klockar : > I have a small problem. > When I upgraded my cpu from a 486DX33 to a 486DX2/66 the ide interface on my > gravisultrasound pnp pro stoped getting detected. > > My other problem is that i can't compile the 2.1.5R kernal with sound support > for my gravis card. > Is there any support for this card or do i need to write it myself. > > Does anyone have any solution for this. > > I guess my IDE interface on my sound card answeres to slowly so some sort of > delay is needed. Its imidetly detecting no card. > > Thanks in advance > > /Tomas > > -- > Tomas Klockar can be found at the following adresses: > > Vänortsvägen 9:164 | Furuvägen 102 | dateck@ludd.luth.se > 977 54 Luleå | 871 52 Härnösand | dateck@solace.mh.se > Tel: +46-920-224775 | Tel: +46-611-13393 | d94-tkl@sm.luth.se > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 12:18:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12615 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12579 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.Beta.6/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id OAA19298 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:18:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.15) id ; Sun, 29 Sep 96 14:18 CDT Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.Beta.6/8.8.Beta.3) id OAA10761 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:18:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199609291918.OAA10761@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Subject: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:18:06 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks, Well, the kernel structures changed AGAIN between 8/24 and today. I have tried checking out the new libkvm and rebuilding that, along with ps, and the problem does not disappear. Exactly what has to be rebuild/relinked when these things happen? A complete "make world" across 30 machines is not acceptable! -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available | 23 Chicagoland Prefixes, 13 ISDN, much more Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 13:02:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA15413 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA15385 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.22]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17357; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA24097; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:02:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: maryann.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:02:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Karl Denninger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? In-Reply-To: <199609291918.OAA10761@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, Karl Denninger wrote: > Hi folks, > > Well, the kernel structures changed AGAIN between 8/24 and today. > > I have tried checking out the new libkvm and rebuilding that, along with ps, > and the problem does not disappear. > > Exactly what has to be rebuild/relinked when these things happen? A > complete "make world" across 30 machines is not acceptable! > You know it's not as bad as you paint it. You would only have to nfs mount the /usr/src and /usr/obj, then do a make install on the other machines. You sound like you're complaining that current changes. > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity > http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available > | 23 Chicagoland Prefixes, 13 ISDN, much more > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ > Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 13:04:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA16688 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16658 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA01337; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609292004.NAA01337@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Karl Denninger cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:18:06 CDT." <199609291918.OAA10761@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:04:17 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Karl Denninger : > Hi folks, > > Well, the kernel structures changed AGAIN between 8/24 and today. > > I have tried checking out the new libkvm and rebuilding that, along with ps, > and the problem does not disappear. > > Exactly what has to be rebuild/relinked when these things happen? A > complete "make world" across 30 machines is not acceptable! Hmm... Good point . Does anyone have a sup configuration to do at least a binary update of a system. What I have in mind is something like a "make install" but across the network using sup or cvsup, again mostly for the binaries and libraries Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 13:14:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA21887 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA21855 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.Beta.6/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id PAA20568; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:14:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.15) id ; Sun, 29 Sep 96 15:14 CDT Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.Beta.6/8.8.Beta.3) id PAA12032; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:14:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199609292014.PAA12032@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:14:11 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@Mcs.Net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Sep 29, 96 04:02:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > Hi folks, > > > > Well, the kernel structures changed AGAIN between 8/24 and today. > > > > I have tried checking out the new libkvm and rebuilding that, along with ps, > > and the problem does not disappear. > > > > Exactly what has to be rebuild/relinked when these things happen? A > > complete "make world" across 30 machines is not acceptable! > > > > You know it's not as bad as you paint it. You would only have to nfs > mount the /usr/src and /usr/obj, then do a make install on the other > machines. You sound like you're complaining that current changes. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data No, I well understand that -CURRENT changes. That's the point of it being "current". However, if I want to run a new kernel, I shouldn't have to rebuild half of the system utilities! I can understand if kernel structures change. But FreeBSD *BADLY* needs a reasonable way to avoid this kind of problem. There IS a fix for this -- reasonably-version the shared libraries (ie: libc.so.3.0.2, etc) and embed the preferred library name in the executable being built. Now if you change the kernel structures and the "ps/w/everything-that-reads structures" has to change, you can update libkvm.so.x.y.z *ONLY* and get a new version number for it -- and the new executables you build for it will know what they want. "make install" on an NFS mounted obj and src tree is unacceptable for a number of reasons -- not the least of which is that all of the SUID security fixes that I have done get UNDONE when you do this! -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available | 23 Chicagoland Prefixes, 13 ISDN, much more Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 13:17:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23568 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23514 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA11040; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:17:16 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA06077; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:17:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08951; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:05:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609292005.WAA08951@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:05:19 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199609291918.OAA10761@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> from Karl Denninger at "Sep 29, 96 02:18:06 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Karl Denninger wrote: > I have tried checking out the new libkvm and rebuilding that, along with ps, > and the problem does not disappear. > > Exactly what has to be rebuild/relinked when these things happen? A > complete "make world" across 30 machines is not acceptable! includes (install them, of course) libkvm ps In that order; `includes' is important since it's often not libkvm itself, but rather a header file change. Alternatively, build `ps' shared. Then, you only gotta rebuild `includes' and `libkvm'. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 13:17:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23578 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23533 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA11045; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:17:17 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA06078; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:17:17 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA08979; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:06:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609292006.WAA08979@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: adding functionality to lpd To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:06:50 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199609291810.TAA00495@yedi.iaf.nl> from Wilko Bulte at "Sep 29, 96 07:10:30 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Wilko Bulte wrote: > Has anybody ever tried to incorporate the changes to printcap/lpd > found in the lprps package by James Clark? And then more specifically > the 'ms' keyword for printcap. CAPABILITIES Refer to termcap(5) for a description of the file layout. Name Type Description ... ms str NULL if lp is a tty, a comma- seperated, stty(1) -like list describing the tty modes :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 13:40:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06195 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06161 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA11764; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:40:06 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199609292040.PAA11764@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:40:06 -0500 (EST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, karl@Mcs.Net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609292014.PAA12032@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> from "Karl Denninger" at Sep 29, 96 03:14:11 pm Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No, I well understand that -CURRENT changes. > > That's the point of it being "current". > > However, if I want to run a new kernel, I shouldn't have to rebuild half > of the system utilities! > I agree that it is a problem (but being honest -- it isn't HALF of the utilities :-)). I am willing to work with the other architectural contributors for a good fix. It is also one of my "hot" buttons. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 13:41:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06670 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06643 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA11771; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:41:01 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199609292041.PAA11771@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:41:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, karl@Mcs.Net In-Reply-To: <199609292005.WAA08951@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 29, 96 10:05:19 pm Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Karl Denninger wrote: > > > I have tried checking out the new libkvm and rebuilding that, along with ps, > > and the problem does not disappear. > > > > Exactly what has to be rebuild/relinked when these things happen? A > > complete "make world" across 30 machines is not acceptable! > > includes (install them, of course) > libkvm > ps > > In that order; `includes' is important since it's often not libkvm > itself, but rather a header file change. > > Alternatively, build `ps' shared. Then, you only gotta rebuild > `includes' and `libkvm'. > Some of the data structs do change enough that you WILL need to recompile ps also :-(. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 13:42:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07002 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peedub.gj.org (newpc.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06944 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peedub.gj.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.gj.org (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA00895 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:40:57 GMT Message-Id: <199609292240.WAA00895@peedub.gj.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: isdn code Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:33:19 +0200." <6110.844011199@critter.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:40:56 +0000 From: Gary Jennejohn Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn >code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support >from developers. > YES ! Nuke it. --- Gary Jennejohn Home - Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de Work - gjennejohn@frt.dec.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 15:03:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25471 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24580 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04652; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:58:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609292158.OAA04652@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:58:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: current-users@netbsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech@openbsd.org In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960928233700.0087ad8c@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Sep 28, 96 07:37:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok, my friend Chris Dukes wants a LVM-like thing for a free Unix. He's working > with the Linux guys on creating one fairly similar to the one found on AIX. > > The question is, is anybody in the BSD world interested in such a thing? It > would allow lots of neat things, like extendable partitions. Mirroring > of logical partitions, etc. > > I'm very sure that they would like help with their project, and if some *BSD > guys get involved with it, issues for us would be diminished (with respect to > re-using their code in our kernels). > > Is anybody interested? If so, email Chris Dukes (cddukes@eos.ncsu.edu) and > let him know. Signing up on the mailing list would be a nice bonus as well. > Chris is doing lots of design work now. I have alpha grade logical volume management code for devfs using physical-to-logical and logical-to-logical device mapping. I am convinced that device mapping is the place to do this, so the AIX stuff is comparatively primitive in implementation (though it has a nice user interface). I think that there is no way to extend the FFS or EXT2 FS areas in a reasonable way using PP agregation as in AIX; I suspect you will need an FS that knows about volume extension through logical device agregation (JFS can do this; NTFS can do this as well). For FFS, you could consider etending from a single to multiple cylinder groups, and not the fragmentation problems that *must* result from incrementally growing the FS area. I happen to have a read-only JFS working (which I did for AIX binary compatability with the Motorolla Ultra 603/604 [PowerStack] PPC motherboard). I haven't done an NTFS because I am aware of another project in that direction, and because I has a JFS available for testing, but no NTFS, at the time. My JFS requires some significant changes to the BSD VFS/VOP interface framework to function; the only reason it isn't writeable is that I haven't bothered to write the code for it. The Linux NTFS is probably unsuitable to solve the problem of using agregate PP-based devices because the Linux VFS framework has a number of basic structural incompatabilities with ordered updated (journalling requires that you consider the FS as a series of events and handlers for events, so making the NTFS read/write or implementing a JFS under Linux wants some stronger ordering guarantess than the FS/buffer cache interaction currently allows under Linux). Lest you think I haven't studied the Linux code enough to have an opinion, it was me who submitted the patches for the memory leak in the path lookup failure case about a year ago (I submitted them through Matt Day, who sent them to Linus). I also submitted a number of fixes the Udo Walther's (sp?) UMSDOS code (mostly adding things like DOS locking semantics for clients of the FS which export the FS via Samba or other file server technology to DOS/Windows client machines). I also submitted fixes for the path conversion code to make it more generic, since the current code can't handle importing NFS paths for a kernel-based NFS (it can only import path strings, and isn't a generic copyinstr, like in BSD, and there are a number of race conditions having to do with a blocking operating following buffer validation but before buffer usage -- a generic problem with buffer prevalidation, actually). Has there been any consideration of adopting the Heidemann/Ficus framework for VFS in Linux, like in BSD? John considered most of these issues in his initial design, even though the current BSD 4.4 integration disables much of the intended flexibility (ie: the Ficus framework was basically "pounded into" the BSD 4.4 code as an emergency reaction to the USL file list). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 15:05:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA26616 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25868 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04664; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:01:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609292201.PAA04664@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quick question about getopt To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:01:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, imp@village.org In-Reply-To: <199609290432.GAA05625@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 29, 96 06:32:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >Given the standards reference, should FreeBSD[*] change getopt to return > > >-1 rather than EOF? I'm inclidned to say yes. However, there are > > >likely reasons for not doing this. > > > > None. EOF is identical with (-1) on all supported systems, and there > > are no complications from EOF being defined in the wrong places. > > Except that all tools that compare the result against EOF should also > be changed to compare it against -1 then. In theory, it's even > possible that some of the tools don't require no longer then > (since this was also the rationale behind the Posix change). According to the POSIX quotation, these tools are no longer compliant, and should look for -1 instead. Fix the bogus tools, not the POSIX mandated interface. Hmmmm... I remember makingthe same argument about setlocale() in crt0.o... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 15:07:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27859 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27181; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04682; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:05:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609292205.PAA04682@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Getting the OpenBSD tree To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:05:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone else tried to use the OpenBSD anoncvs server? Has anyone been successful? I keep getting errors... What environment/other settings did you use? What was your CVSROOT set to? What was your command line for the initial checkout? Thanks... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 15:38:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12477 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA11850; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA00317; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:35:14 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199609292235.RAA00317@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Getting the OpenBSD tree To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:35:14 -0500 (EST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199609292205.PAA04682@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 29, 96 03:05:23 pm Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone else tried to use the OpenBSD anoncvs server? > > Has anyone been successful? I keep getting errors... > > What environment/other settings did you use? > > What was your CVSROOT set to? > > What was your command line for the initial checkout? > > Thanks... > > It has worked for me (but I use the latest CVS, not necessarily the one in -current.) It is VERY VERY VERY slow. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 18:20:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA29184 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29159 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA14731 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:20:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:20:41 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199609300120.SAA14731@kithrup.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Help -- getting a panic in pmap_is_modified Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am getting a panic (in 2.1.5-RELEASE) in pmap_is_modified() during a shutdown if I change struct trapframe. (A page-not-present panic, in fact.) In particular, I have added four words to the end of struct trapframe. I've compensated by also pushing four additional words in locore.s, just before calling _main. The annoying part is that it only happens when I shutdown; the code path is calling through vfs_unmountroot(). I think it's safe to say that I've missed *somewhere* where the size of the trapframe is important. But I can't think of *where*. I've asked both David and Bruce, and neither of them has any ideas. Anyone else? Sean. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 29 19:38:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA12307 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com ([207.76.204.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12268 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12207; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324F31C6.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:34:46 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eng@alpo.whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: flock/sendmail stuffup Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It's taken a couple of days to track down, but in the implimentation we're using here of sendmail there appears to be some strangeness. (this is as of a few weeks ago) I understand that this may not be relevant with the sendmail, new version (I'll check it tomorrow or tonight) but it appears to point to a weakness. Sendmail was openning /var/tmp/dead.letter and locking the file it then re-openned it or whatever, and got a second file structure for that file which it attempted to lock and immediatly went into deadlock with itself. all following sendmails (sendmail -q5m) all lined up obediently waiting for that file to come free (as it already existed) I eventually had 85 sendmails all stopped in "lockf" Unfortunatly it seems that whole file locks are feferenced to the struct file, rather than to the process itself. so children can inherrit the file-locks, however it ALSO bypasses the deadlock detection if it's not a "POSIX" type lock. this means that it's trivial to deadlock oneself with flock. e.g. #include main() { int fd1, fd2; fd1 = open("/tmp/xx",O_RDWR,0666); fd2 = open("/tmp/xx",O_RDWR,0666); flock(fd1,LOCK_EX); flock(fd2,LOCK_EX); } of course the quick answer is "Don't Do That" but it shouldn't be possible to deadlock yourself so easily.. and if something like sendmail can be configured in such a way that it happens then maybe it should be thought out a bit better. (I'm not sure WHY sendmail was doing this... it olny seemed to do it if /var/tmp/dead.letter already existed. Once I deleted it and killed the deadlocked sendmail, all the rest went to completion, but if I didn't delete it, then each one would dead-lock, as I killed the one before it.. ggest a way of keeping track of what processes have a particular 'file' structure referenced, so that the deadlock detection in the POSIX case can be extended to the 'flock' case. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 03:31:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA04007 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA03967 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id DAA20889 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00301 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609301003.DAA00301@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Whats up with freefall? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:03:58 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk {hasty} traceroute freefall.freebsd.org traceroute to freefall.freebsd.org (204.216.27.18), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 ascend (204.188.121.17) 1.633 ms 1.570 ms 1.539 ms 2 asc400-1.v-site.net (204.188.119.2) 27.399 ms 31.222 ms 27.388 ms 3 gateway.v-site.net (204.188.119.1) 29.336 ms 29.342 ms 29.435 ms 4 tlg-cust-link.tlg.net (140.174.37.17) 78.526 ms 36.323 ms 36.429 ms 5 core-hssi8-0.mv.best.net (206.86.228.89) 37.183 ms 36.850 ms 36.775 ms 6 mae-west.best.net (198.32.136.36) 56.702 ms 95.771 ms 74.377 ms 7 198.32.136.10 (198.32.136.10) 39.925 ms 40.488 ms 39.682 ms 8 149.20.64.19 (149.20.64.19) 43.478 ms 111.942 ms 117.029 ms 9 E0-CRL-SFO-02-E0X0.US.CRL.NET (165.113.55.2) 43.678 ms 44.407 ms 46.627 ms 10 T1-CDROM-00-EX.US.CRL.NET (165.113.118.2) 50.385 ms 52.093 ms 49.310 ms 11 * * * Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 03:39:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA10043 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA09942 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA19828 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA09630 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:32:57 -0700 Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA18915 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:33:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199609300833.KAA18915@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Optimizing bzero() To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:33:14 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <1795.843631197@critter.tfs.com> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Sep 25, 96 07:59:57 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Poul-Henning Kamp: > In message <199609250343.AA109333032@fakir.india.hp.com>, A JOSEPH KOSHY writes > : > >>>>> "phk" == "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes > > > >phk> The next thing you could start to consider is when people realloc a > >phk> multipage allocation to something bigger, it would be nice to be able > >phk> to ask the kernel to "move these pages to this address" and then extend > >phk> It there instead of copying the contents. > > > >Makes sense; can this be done without major surgery though? How costly > >would it be for malloc(3) to invoke a system call to re-arrange the > >address space compared to an memory allocation followed by a bcopy()? > cheap(er). Can't you just make realloc do that? Is there a problem with doing it? If not, is there a way to tell the system to rearrange your address space? [stuff deleted] /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 03:42:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA12218 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA12103; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schubert.promo.de (schubert.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA19878 ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stefan.promo.de (stefan.Promo.DE [194.45.188.81]) by schubert.promo.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA28999; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:32:01 +0200 Message-Id: <199609300832.KAA28999@schubert.promo.de> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:36:28 +0200 From: stefan@Promo.DE (Stefan Bethke) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HDLC card for FreeBSD? [Repost] Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Organization: Promo GmbH, Hamburg, Germany Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A while ago someone (I think from Australia) announced a cheapo, build your own, HDLC ISA card with schematics, layout, and driver availible for download. I can't find that mail anywhere, nor any references on the web. Has someone a pointer for me? [ Please reply by mail also, I don't read this group too often. ] Thanks, Stefan -- Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-431360-0 + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-431360-60 Waterloohain 6-8 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE D-22769 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 03:47:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA16295 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA16165 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA19367 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA02311 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:52:33 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA14691 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:52:33 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA11391 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:28:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609300628.IAA11391@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Quick question about getopt To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:28:42 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199609292201.PAA04664@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Sep 29, 96 03:01:20 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: (Bruce:) > > > None. EOF is identical with (-1) on all supported systems, and there > > > are no complications from EOF being defined in the wrong places. > > (Me:) > > Except that all tools that compare the result against EOF should also ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > be changed to compare it against -1 then. [...] ^^^^^^^^^^ > According to the POSIX quotation, these tools are no longer compliant, > and should look for -1 instead. > > Fix the bogus tools, not the POSIX mandated interface. So what? We are in violent agreement? Why did you post then? A ``Me, too'' posting? :) Plus the crosspost to -hackers and -current, seems it hasn't been your best day yesterday, Terry? ;-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 03:59:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA24903 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA24812 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.13/1.53) id MAA10004; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:56:55 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199609301056.MAA10004@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: new if_vx driver in incoming on freefal To: nao@sbl.cl.nec.co.jp (Naoki Hamada) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:56:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199609300736.QAA00955@sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp> from Naoki Hamada at "Sep 30, 96 04:36:40 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Naoki Hamada wrote: > Hi. > > Here is today's snapshot. I divided if_vx.c into new (reduced) if_vx.c > and if_vx_pci.c. The arguments of their functions are made similar to > those of if_ep.c. /sys/conf/files needs an addition: [patch deleted] > > I compiled them under 2.2-960801-SNAP to find them works greatly. The > following are applied a minor patch which suits it to > 2.1.5-RELEASE. > > Next, I will create if_vx_eisa.c for 3C59[27]. > Have you incorporated my patches? Btw: This is a good plan, but in order to be more prepared to handle situations like this we shopuld go the netBSD way, i.e. have a directory called drivers (in the src/sys dir) which are bus independent and have a per bus interface to these drivers. -Guido Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 04:26:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA17240 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA17140; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [207.67.176.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA19236 ; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by covina.lightside.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA15753; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:05:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Karl Denninger , chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? In-Reply-To: <199609292040.PAA11764@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, John S. Dyson wrote: > > No, I well understand that -CURRENT changes. > > > > That's the point of it being "current". > > > > However, if I want to run a new kernel, I shouldn't have to rebuild half > > of the system utilities! > > > I agree that it is a problem (but being honest -- it isn't HALF of > the utilities :-)). I am willing to work with the other architectural > contributors for a good fix. It is also one of my "hot" buttons. > > John Hey, why don't we build on the KernFS we already have? Let's see: hamby1# mount -t kernfs kern /kern # This command always works # (kernfs is an LKM) hamby1# ls /kern bootfile copyright hz pagesize time boottime hostname loadavg physmem version Between /kern/boottime, /kern/time, and /kern/loadavg, you can probably get most of what uptime needs. The rest of the information is not so useful, but I think that the best solution is to take whatever kernel structures the utilities in question need, and make the information available in ASCII-formatted pseudo-files in /kern. Between /kern and /proc (which ps is already using), we _should_ have all the information these utilities need; then they don't need to be poking around in /dev/kmem, and furthermore, don't need to be SGID kmem! By the way, Linux has done this since the beginning (except that everything is in /proc), and therefore a ps from kernel 0.99.x, in spirit at least, will work on the latest 2.0.x kernel. -- Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 04:45:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA00346 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 04:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA00278; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 04:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA08052; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:45:13 +0200 (MET DST) To: Mikael Karpberg cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Optimizing bzero() In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:33:14 +0200." <199609300833.KAA18915@ocean.campus.luth.se> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:45:12 +0200 Message-ID: <8050.844083912@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609300833.KAA18915@ocean.campus.luth.se>, Mikael Karpberg writes >> > >> >phk> The next thing you could start to consider is when people realloc a >> >phk> multipage allocation to something bigger, it would be nice to be able >> >phk> to ask the kernel to "move these pages to this address" and then exten >d >> >phk> It there instead of copying the contents. >> > >Can't you just make realloc do that? Is there a problem with doing it? >If not, is there a way to tell the system to rearrange your address space? It would be done in realloc(), but the savings seems to be very marginal from the traces I have collected so far. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 05:05:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA18846 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccs.sogang.ac.kr (ccs.sogang.ac.kr [163.239.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA18791 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr by ccs.sogang.ac.kr (8.8.0/Sogang) id VAA07485; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:01:25 +0900 (KST) Received: from localhost by cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02138; Mon, 30 Sep 96 21:04:28 KST Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:04:27 +0900 (KST) From: Heo Sung-Gwan X-Sender: heo@cslsun10 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: nbuf in buffer cache Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am curious about the number of buffers(= nbuf) in buffer cache. The variable nbuf is determined in i386/i386/machdep.c as following: #ifdef NBUF int nbuf = NBUF; #else int nbuf = 0; #endif ... void cpu_startup() { ... if (nbuf == 0) { nbuf = 30; if( physmem > 1024) nbuf += min((physmem - 1024) / 12, 1024); } ... } If NBUF is not defined and physical memory is less than 1024 pages(= 4Mbytes) then nbuf becomes 30, and otherwise nbuf is 30 + min((physmem - 1024) / 12, 1024). Why does the number of buffers is calculated in this fashion? 30 buffers, 1024 pages, and division by 12 have special meaning? There is no comment on source code. In addition, if there is no user application processes how many buffers are enough to run the system without degrading the performance of the system? Only 30 buffers? Or better as many as possible? Please let me know. -- Heo Sung-Gwan Dept. of Computer Science, Sogang University, Seoul, Korea. E-mail: heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 05:15:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA27390 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from research.gate.nec.co.jp (research.gate.nec.co.jp [202.32.8.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA27332 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbl-gw.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp by research.gate.nec.co.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/950912) with ESMTP id VAA23240; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:14:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp by sbl-gw.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp (8.7.5+2.6Wbeta6/3.3W6) with ESMTP id VAA22659; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:14:51 +0900 (JST) X-Authentication-Warning: sbl-gw.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp: Host nao@sirius [133.207.68.90] claimed to be sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp Received: by sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp (8.7.5+2.6Wbeta6/3.3W6) with UUCP id VAA03324; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:14:51 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:14:51 +0900 (JST) From: Naoki Hamada Message-Id: <199609301214.VAA03324@sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp> References: <199609301056.MAA10004@gvr.win.tue.nl> To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl CC: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Guido van Rooij's message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:56:55 +0200 (MET DST)" <199609301056.MAA10004@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: new if_vx driver in incoming on freefal Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Guido wrote: >Have you incorporated my patches? Of course. I always follow improvements you made. >Btw: This is a good plan, but in order >to be more prepared to handle situations like this we shopuld go the >netBSD way, i.e. have a directory called drivers (in the src/sys dir) >which are bus independent and have a per bus interface to these drivers. Absolutely. There will be three part of the new vx driver. The bus independent part, if_vx.c and bus dependent parts, if_vx_pci.c and if_vx_eisa.c. Then, I wonder where I should place if_vx.c! Reorganization of directory tree should be done sooner or later. -nao From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 05:27:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA07170 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA07131 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA10202; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:25:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:25:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Guido van Rooij cc: FreeBSD-hackers Subject: Re: stack In-Reply-To: <199609281520.RAA05793@gvr.win.tue.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk no, the stack is whatever is there. no automatic initialization. Ron Minnich |"If you leave out all the killings, D.C. has as rminnich@sarnoff.com | low a crime rate as many cities" -- (609)-734-3120 | D.C. Mayor Marion Barry ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 05:28:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA08116 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA08077 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id FAA01961; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609301229.FAA01961@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Whats up with freefall? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 03:03:58 PDT." <199609301003.DAA00301@rah.star-gate.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:29:20 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 9 E0-CRL-SFO-02-E0X0.US.CRL.NET (165.113.55.2) 43.678 ms 44.407 ms 46.627 ms >10 T1-CDROM-00-EX.US.CRL.NET (165.113.118.2) 50.385 ms 52.093 ms 49.310 ms >11 * * * It was down for a bit. It is up now. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 05:29:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA09594 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA09559 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA10209; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:27:35 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:27:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Guido van Rooij cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: stack In-Reply-To: <199609281552.RAA05940@gvr.win.tue.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk recall that the stack does get used before you get to it if the program is dynamically linked, i.e. by ld.so and friends. So things are differentin static vs. dynlink. This caused no end of trouble for ill-behaved programs when we moved from sunos 3.5 to sunos 4.0. Lots of formerly working programs just broke. "it's sunos 4.0s fault". Not quite :-) "No automatic initialization" ron Ron Minnich |"If you leave out all the killings, D.C. has as rminnich@sarnoff.com | low a crime rate as many cities" -- (609)-734-3120 | D.C. Mayor Marion Barry ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 05:31:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA11348 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA11323 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA10223; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:31:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:31:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: FreeBSD-hackers Subject: Re: stack In-Reply-To: <5718.843944441@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 28 Sep 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > When I allocate something on the stack, isn't it supposed to be completely > > zero? > Uh, no? Not at any point in history? :-) no, actually, this used to work in many cases, although it should not have. See, for example, PDP-11. Led to lots of amusement when programs moved ... ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 05:41:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA18634 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA18590 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id FAA02011; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609301242.FAA02011@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Heo Sung-Gwan cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nbuf in buffer cache In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:04:27 +0900." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 05:42:19 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >If NBUF is not defined and physical memory is less than 1024 pages(= 4Mbytes) >then nbuf becomes 30, and otherwise nbuf is 30 + min((physmem - 1024) / 12, >1024). > >Why does the number of buffers is calculated in this fashion? >30 buffers, 1024 pages, and division by 12 have special meaning? >There is no comment on source code. The calculation is to size the number of buffers as a function of total physical memory. The general goal is about 10% of physical memory, but as you can see, the calculation is a little more complex than that - with a smaller number on small memory systems (down to a low limit of 30 buffers). >In addition, if there is no user application processes how many buffers >are enough to run the system without degrading the performance of the system? >Only 30 buffers? Or better as many as possible? Buffers in the system are primarily used for temporary mappings of VM pages during filesystem I/O. They also are used to cache directory and inode blocks. However, VM pages that are attached to buffers can't be reclaimed by the pagedaemon, so they are sort of "locked" in memory. We've found the above calculation to be a fair compromise for system resources. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 07:56:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA28790 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 07:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.ctron.com (ctron.com [134.141.197.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28738 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 07:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from news@localhost) by gatekeeper.ctron.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA25211 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:56:04 -0400 Received: from stealth.ctron.com(134.141.5.107) by gatekeeper via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma025190; Mon Sep 30 10:55:56 1996 Received: from thoth.ctron.com by stealth.ctron.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14935; Mon, 30 Sep 96 10:52:45 EDT Received: from thoth (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thoth.ctron.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA03864 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:57:13 -0400 Message-Id: <324FDFC8.150F@ctron.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:57:12 -0400 From: Alexander Seth Jones Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: device driver optimization Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm writing a device driver that works as expected when I compile with the "-g" option, but as soon as I compile with "-O" it no longer works as expected. Is there a good, systematic way to approach solving this? I could examine the assembly code between the two versions, I guess, but I was hoping there was a better way. -- Alex Jones | ajones@ctron.com Cabletron Systems, Inc. Durham, NH USA 03824 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 08:15:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA09750 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09698 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (daemon@cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA09900; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:15:02 GMT Received: from auk.fsl.noaa.gov by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov with SMTP (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA161806501; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:15:01 GMT Message-Id: <324FE403.2BB8@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:15:15 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.10 9000/725) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Wilko Bulte Cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: adding functionality to lpd References: <199609291810.TAA00495@yedi.iaf.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte wrote: > Figgling with the fc,fc etc gives me severe headaches, so I might > try to hack it into the lpd e.a. sources if this in unchartered > terrain. But luckily, support of the "ms" printcap capability is already in FreeBSD-current. :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 10:36:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA11105 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11041; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06167; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:35:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609301735.KAA06167@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: isdn code To: phk@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:35:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <6110.844011199@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Sep 29, 96 05:33:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn > code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support > from developers. What is "unsupported" about it such that it makes you want to remove the code? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 10:44:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA16015 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA15946 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06193; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:42:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609301742.KAA06193@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:42:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, karl@Mcs.Net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199609292014.PAA12032@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> from "Karl Denninger" at Sep 29, 96 03:14:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No, I well understand that -CURRENT changes. > > That's the point of it being "current". > > However, if I want to run a new kernel, I shouldn't have to rebuild half > of the system utilities! > > I can understand if kernel structures change. But FreeBSD *BADLY* needs a > reasonable way to avoid this kind of problem. There IS a fix for this -- > reasonably-version the shared libraries (ie: libc.so.3.0.2, etc) and embed > the preferred library name in the executable being built. > > Now if you change the kernel structures and the "ps/w/everything-that-reads > structures" has to change, you can update libkvm.so.x.y.z *ONLY* and get a > new version number for it -- and the new executables you build for it will > know what they want. > > "make install" on an NFS mounted obj and src tree is unacceptable for a > number of reasons -- not the least of which is that all of the SUID security > fixes that I have done get UNDONE when you do this! Personally, I've always thought that the structure should be absracted from the reporting -- specifically, ps should use procfs. The problem with this approach is that ps then fails to operate on crashdumps, which are by definition passive data. If this was an acceptable outcome (one could argue that a functioning kdb should be capable of doing a ps, since a panic could leave you at a debug prompt, and you may still want to ps before rebooting), then moving to an abstracted interface would permanently solve the problem for all utilities that otherwise read kvm. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 10:47:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA17851 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA17801 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.0/8.8.Beta.3) with SMTP id MAA28755; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:45:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.15) id ; Mon, 30 Sep 96 12:45 CDT Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.Mcs.Net (8.8.Beta.6/8.8.Beta.3) id MAA06478; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:45:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199609301745.MAA06478@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:45:35 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@Mcs.Net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199609301742.KAA06193@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 30, 96 10:42:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No, I well understand that -CURRENT changes. > > > > That's the point of it being "current". > > > > However, if I want to run a new kernel, I shouldn't have to rebuild half > > of the system utilities! > > > > I can understand if kernel structures change. But FreeBSD *BADLY* needs a > > reasonable way to avoid this kind of problem. There IS a fix for this -- > > reasonably-version the shared libraries (ie: libc.so.3.0.2, etc) and embed > > the preferred library name in the executable being built. > > > > Now if you change the kernel structures and the "ps/w/everything-that-reads > > structures" has to change, you can update libkvm.so.x.y.z *ONLY* and get a > > new version number for it -- and the new executables you build for it will > > know what they want. > > > > "make install" on an NFS mounted obj and src tree is unacceptable for a > > number of reasons -- not the least of which is that all of the SUID security > > fixes that I have done get UNDONE when you do this! > > Personally, I've always thought that the structure should be absracted > from the reporting -- specifically, ps should use procfs. > > The problem with this approach is that ps then fails to operate on > crashdumps, which are by definition passive data. If this was an > acceptable outcome (one could argue that a functioning kdb should > be capable of doing a ps, since a panic could leave you at a debug > prompt, and you may still want to ps before rebooting), then moving > to an abstracted interface would permanently solve the problem for > all utilities that otherwise read kvm. > > Terry Lambert I absolutely agree here. A functioning kdb should be able to do a "ps" on the crash dump, which is the point of being able to back-trace, yes? I would argue that the system command "ps" is by *definition* a working-set tool *only*. If you want one which runs on crash dumps, then let's have one which does that. If we run through procfs then the problem gets solved -- and frankly, I like that outcome -- a lot. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available | 23 Chicagoland Prefixes, 13 ISDN, much more Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 10:47:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA18225 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18179; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06209; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:46:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609301746.KAA06209@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:46:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, karl@Mcs.Net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Sep 29, 96 11:05:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > By the way, Linux has done this since the beginning (except that > everything is in /proc), and therefore a ps from kernel 0.99.x, in spirit > at least, will work on the latest 2.0.x kernel. How do they ps crash dumps images? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 11:18:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA12453 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12402 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06288; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:16:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609301816.LAA06288@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: flock/sendmail stuffup To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:16:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: eng@alpo.whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <324F31C6.41C67EA6@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 29, 96 07:34:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's taken a couple of days to track down, but in the > implimentation we're using here of sendmail there appears to be some > strangeness. > (this is as of a few weeks ago) > I understand that this may not be relevant with the sendmail, > new version (I'll check it tomorrow or tonight) > but it appears to point to a weakness. > > Sendmail was openning /var/tmp/dead.letter and locking the file > it then re-openned it or whatever, and got a second file > structure for that file which it attempted to lock > and immediatly went into deadlock with itself. > > all following sendmails (sendmail -q5m) all lined up obediently waiting > for that file to come free (as it already existed) > I eventually had 85 sendmails all stopped in "lockf" > > Unfortunatly it seems that whole file locks are > feferenced to the struct file, rather than to the process itself. > so children can inherrit the file-locks, however > it ALSO bypasses the deadlock detection if > it's not a "POSIX" type lock. this means that > it's trivial to deadlock oneself > with flock. > > e.g. > #include > > main() > { > int fd1, fd2; > > fd1 = open("/tmp/xx",O_RDWR,0666); > fd2 = open("/tmp/xx",O_RDWR,0666); > flock(fd1,LOCK_EX); > flock(fd2,LOCK_EX); > } > > > of course the quick answer is > "Don't Do That" > but it shouldn't be possible to deadlock yourself so easily.. > and if something like sendmail can be configured in such a way that it > happens then maybe it should be thought out a bit better. The correct place to hang the locks are off the vnode. The vnode should be the same. The key is that an fd is per proc open file (struct file) table ,------. | fd 1 | +------+ | fd 2 |----------------------. +------+ | | | | ... ... | | v +------+ ,-------. ,-------. ,-----------. | fd x |--------------------> | vnode |-->| inode |->| lock list | +------+ `-------' `-------' +-----------+ | fd y | | | `------' ... Call graph: flock VOP_ADVLOCK ufs_advlock lf_advlock ( ..., &(ip->i_lockf), ip->i_size) lf_setlock Here we can see the lock is actually hung off a pointer in the FS specific in core inode. This greatly complicates processing, actually. One would expect locks to operate on top level vnodes and be hung off the in core vnode instead. This would greatly simplify the FS specific code by moving the common code up to the VFS/VOP (syscalls) layer. The deadlock detection should be functioning. I suspect the "error" is that you expect non-interference for the same process? What about threads? No, in order to get an EWOULDBLOCK return, you must ammend your code: #include main() { int fd1, fd2; fd1 = open("/tmp/xx",O_RDWR,0666); fd2 = open("/tmp/xx",O_RDWR,0666); flock(fd1,LOCK_EX); flock(fd2,LOCK_EX | LOCK_NB); } That is, you only get deadlock avoidance if you spcifically ask for it. For what it's worth, flock() is probably implemented incorrectly internally anyway -- but that's not what is causing you grief. >From the flock man page: Requesting a lock on an object that is already locked normally causes the caller to be blocked until the lock may be acquired. If LOCK_NB is in- cluded in operation, then this will not happen; instead the call will fail and the error EWOULDBLOCK will be returned. > (I'm not sure WHY sendmail was doing this... it olny seemed to do it > if /var/tmp/dead.letter already existed. Once I deleted it and killed > the deadlocked sendmail, all the rest went to completion, > but if I didn't delete it, then each one would dead-lock, as I killed > the one before it.. Because sendmail is in error. > ggest a way of keeping track of what processes > have a particular 'file' structure referenced, so that the > deadlock detection in the POSIX case can be extended to the > 'flock' case. 8-). Already there. flock uses an advisory range lock on the entire file -- that's how it operates: it's a simplified special case of fcntl() locking. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 11:19:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA13710 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13648 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA24333 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:18:57 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA03262; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:49:09 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199609292249.XAA03262@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: adding functionality to lpd To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:49:08 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609292006.WAA08979@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 29, 96 10:06:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As J Wunsch wrote... > As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > Has anybody ever tried to incorporate the changes to printcap/lpd > > found in the lprps package by James Clark? And then more specifically > > the 'ms' keyword for printcap. > > CAPABILITIES > Refer to termcap(5) for a description of the file layout. > > Name Type Description > ... > ms str NULL if lp is a tty, a comma- > seperated, stty(1) -like > list describing the tty modes > :-) but: $ man printcap | grep ms Error messages generated by the line printer programs themselves (that is, the lp* programs) are logged by syslog(3) using the LPR facility. sponding llff file. The filters may, of course, use syslog themselves. This is 2.1.5R Was you example from -current? Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 11:22:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15572 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15478 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id UAA28119; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:21:42 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA26747; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:21:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA13084; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:19:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609301819.UAA13084@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: device driver optimization To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:19:02 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ajones@ctron.com (Alexander Seth Jones) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <324FDFC8.150F@ctron.com> from Alexander Seth Jones at "Sep 30, 96 10:57:12 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Alexander Seth Jones wrote: > I'm writing a device driver that works as expected when I compile with > the "-g" option, but as soon as I compile with "-O" it no longer works > as expected. > > Is there a good, systematic way to approach solving this? I could > examine the assembly code between the two versions, I guess, but I was > hoping there was a better way. Compile with -g and -O, run strip -d on /kernel after installing it, read carefully the handbook section about kernel debugging, and do your best. (Recently, Julian Elischer has also sent a description on how to run gdb on-line on a kernel. This is not yet in the handbook.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 11:42:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03032 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA02978; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA09043; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:41:30 +0200 (MET DST) To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: isdn code In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:35:03 PDT." <199609301735.KAA06167@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:41:30 +0200 Message-ID: <9041.844108890@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609301735.KAA06167@phaeton.artisoft.com>, Terry Lambert writes: >> Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn >> code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support >> from developers. > >What is "unsupported" about it such that it makes you want to remove >the code? Well, nobody seems to use it or support it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 12:27:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA09304 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siva (siva.captech.com [207.33.153.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09287 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siva.captech.com by siva (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA21052; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:24:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199609301924.MAA21052@siva> To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech@openbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Sep 1996 19:37:00 EDT." <1.5.4.32.19960928233700.0087ad8c@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:24:38 -0700 From: James Graham Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Kevin P. Neal" sez: # >Return-Path: cddukes@unity.ncsu.edu # >From: cddukes@unity.ncsu.edu # >Subject: VPS mailing list # >To: kpneal@pobox.com # >Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 18:43:56 -0400 (EDT) # > # >vps-devel@acm.uiuc.edu # >(And vps-devel-request to manipulate). # # Ok, my friend Chris Dukes wants a LVM-like thing for a free Unix. He's workin # g # with the Linux guys on creating one fairly similar to the one found on AIX. # # The question is, is anybody in the BSD world interested in such a thing? It # would allow lots of neat things, like extendable partitions. Mirroring # of logical partitions, etc. What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? --*greywolf; From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 12:29:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA11183 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA11133 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.13/1.53) id VAA11023; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:29:25 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199609301929.VAA11023@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: disklabeling a vn device To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:29:24 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am pretty I once managed to create an empty file, vnconfig it and then label amnd newfs it. I forgot how though and I'm stuk with a disklabel: ioctl DIOCWDINFO: Inappropriate ioctl for device error. How is this doen? -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 12:41:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA20805 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA20733; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09168; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:41:03 +0200 (MET DST) To: James Graham cc: "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech@openbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:24:38 PDT." <199609301924.MAA21052@siva> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:41:03 +0200 Message-ID: <9166.844112463@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609301924.MAA21052@siva>, James Graham writes: ># ># Ok, my friend Chris Dukes wants a LVM-like thing for a free Unix. He's worki >n ># g ># with the Linux guys on creating one fairly similar to the one found on AIX. ># ># The question is, is anybody in the BSD world interested in such a thing? It ># would allow lots of neat things, like extendable partitions. Mirroring ># of logical partitions, etc. Yes we want this. >What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? Architecture instead of hacks. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 12:42:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA21562 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA21433; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09181; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:41:52 +0200 (MET DST) To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Subject: Re: disklabeling a vn device In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:29:24 +0200." <199609301929.VAA11023@gvr.win.tue.nl> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:41:51 +0200 Message-ID: <9179.844112511@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609301929.VAA11023@gvr.win.tue.nl>, Guido van Rooij writes: >I am pretty I once managed to create an empty file, vnconfig it and >then label amnd newfs it. I forgot how though and I'm stuk with a > disklabel: ioctl DIOCWDINFO: Inappropriate ioctl for device >error. How is this doen? Dig into src/release/Makefile for the final clue, I can't remember but I know that works. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 12:47:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA26522 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA26453 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.13/1.53) id VAA11121; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:47:32 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199609301947.VAA11121@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: disklabeling a vn device To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:47:31 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9179.844112511@critter.tfs.com> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Sep 30, 96 09:41:51 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <199609301929.VAA11023@gvr.win.tue.nl>, Guido van Rooij writes: > >I am pretty I once managed to create an empty file, vnconfig it and > >then label amnd newfs it. I forgot how though and I'm stuk with a > > disklabel: ioctl DIOCWDINFO: Inappropriate ioctl for device > >error. How is this doen? > > Dig into src/release/Makefile for the final clue, I can't remember > but I know that works. I just foud out how it can be done: newfs /dev/rvn0c This is undocumented in the newfs manpage though...If I have time I'll fix it. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 13:01:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07900 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:01:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07829 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bertus@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id WAA03684; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:00:44 +0200 (SAT) From: Bertus Pretorius Message-Id: <199609302000.WAA03684@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: isdn code In-Reply-To: <199609292240.WAA00895@peedub.gj.org> from Gary Jennejohn at "Sep 29, 96 10:40:56 pm" To: Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:00:44 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > > >Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn > >code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support > >from developers. > > > > YES ! Nuke it. Please not right now. We are working to a way to support it from a company viewpoint. Give me till end October to do something more official. > > --- > Gary Jennejohn > Home - Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de > Work - gjennejohn@frt.dec.com > > -- +-Bertus Pretorius-------- (O) (O) ------------------bp@nanoteq.co.za-+ | mikomtek ^ +27 12 665-1338 (Voice) | | CSIR \___/ +27 12 665-1343 (FAX) | +-------------A smile is the same in all languages--------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 13:31:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23058 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA23033 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03144 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609302031.NAA03144@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 to: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: splash-page on bootup.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:11:02 CDT." <199609231511.KAA15826@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:31:25 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Say it is possible to modify the BIOS boot time logo so how about coming up with a Daemon logo and http://www.freebsd.org icon 8) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 13:49:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19560 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19500 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA01180 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:22:08 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA28888 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:22:08 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA13209 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:23:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609301823.UAA13209@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: adding functionality to lpd To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:23:00 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199609292249.XAA03262@yedi.iaf.nl> from Wilko Bulte at "Sep 29, 96 11:49:08 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Wilko Bulte wrote: > $ man printcap | grep ms > > Error messages generated by the line printer programs themselves (that > is, the lp* programs) are logged by syslog(3) using the LPR facility. > sponding llff file. The filters may, of course, use syslog themselves. > > This is 2.1.5R Was you example from -current? Yep. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 14:01:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09962 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09916 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA21950 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA00782 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:35:34 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id WAA01873 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:35:33 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.0/keltia-uucp-2.9) id WAA03754; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:32:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609302032.WAA03754@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:32:33 +0200 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? In-Reply-To: <199609301746.KAA06209@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sep 30, 1996 10:46:10 -0700 References: <199609301746.KAA06209@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.45i Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2522 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > > everything is in /proc), and therefore a ps from kernel 0.99.x, in spirit > > at least, will work on the latest 2.0.x kernel. That's only in spirit though. I've seen enough people to whom was given the advice of upgrading to the latest "ps" (even proc-ps as opposed as kmem-ps)... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #23: Sun Sep 29 14:56:23 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 14:25:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA23611 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [207.67.176.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23535; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by covina.lightside.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11341; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:25:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: dyson@freebsd.org, karl@Mcs.Net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? In-Reply-To: <199609301746.KAA06209@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > By the way, Linux has done this since the beginning (except that > > everything is in /proc), and therefore a ps from kernel 0.99.x, in spirit > > at least, will work on the latest 2.0.x kernel. > > How do they ps crash dumps images? You can ps crash dump images??? :-) Actually for Linux, I think this is irrelevant, because I don't think Linux can create crash dumps. By default, I don't think it even made CORE dumps until recently (there must have been a kernel option to configure this, but it wasn't obvious to me). -- Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 14:52:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11703 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11608 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA03480; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:51:07 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA00891; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:51:06 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA13545; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:39:49 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609302139.XAA13545@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: disklabeling a vn device To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:39:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199609301947.VAA11121@gvr.win.tue.nl> from Guido van Rooij at "Sep 30, 96 09:47:31 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Guido van Rooij wrote: > > > disklabel: ioctl DIOCWDINFO: Inappropriate ioctl for device > > >error. How is this doen? > I just foud out how it can be done: > newfs /dev/rvn0c > > This is undocumented in the newfs manpage though...If I have time > I'll fix it. The semi-documented way is to use vnconfig -s labels -c /dev/rvn0 /your/image -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 15:12:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA26115 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26074; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA00280; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:12:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609302212.PAA00280@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:12:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dyson@freebsd.org, karl@Mcs.Net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Sep 30, 96 02:25:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > By the way, Linux has done this since the beginning (except that > > > everything is in /proc), and therefore a ps from kernel 0.99.x, in spirit > > > at least, will work on the latest 2.0.x kernel. > > > > How do they ps crash dumps images? > > You can ps crash dump images??? :-) ps: usage: ps [-aChjlmrSTuvwx] [-O|o fmt] [-p pid] [-t tty] [-U user] [-M core] [-N system] [-W swap] ps [-L] So to ps a dead system from the dump: ps -M kmem.image -N kernel.image.with.namelist -W swap.image.if.applicable Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 17:29:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA07521 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA07471 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00510; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:29:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610010029.RAA00510@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: isdn code To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:29:01 -3100 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9041.844108890@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Sep 30, 96 08:41:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn > >> code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support > >> from developers. > > > >What is "unsupported" about it such that it makes you want to remove > >the code? > > Well, nobody seems to use it or support it. I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real communications infrastructure, unlike ours. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 17:31:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA09403 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA09286 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA22433 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id XAA21013; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:47:18 GMT Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:47:18 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: James Graham cc: "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech@openbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-Reply-To: <199609301924.MAA21052@siva> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, James Graham wrote: > # The question is, is anybody in the BSD world interested in such a thing? It > # would allow lots of neat things, like extendable partitions. Mirroring > # of logical partitions, etc. > > What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? The ability to resize partitions in itself is worthwhile. JFS or VXFS-like, metadata logging for increased robustness and faster reboots without the need for fsck in regular operation would also be nice. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 17:57:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA11650 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA11530 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from answerman.mindspring.com (answerman.mindspring.com [204.180.128.8]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA22125 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by answerman.mindspring.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA16648; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-168-121-39-4.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.39.4]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA02879; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:46:07 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960930224608.0066dee0@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:46:08 -0400 To: James Graham From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech@openbsd.org, current-users@NetBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:24 PM 9/30/96 -0700, James Graham wrote: >"Kevin P. Neal" sez: ># >Return-Path: cddukes@unity.ncsu.edu ># >From: cddukes@unity.ncsu.edu ># >Subject: VPS mailing list ># >To: kpneal@pobox.com ># >Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 18:43:56 -0400 (EDT) ># > ># >vps-devel@acm.uiuc.edu ># >(And vps-devel-request to manipulate). ># ># Ok, my friend Chris Dukes wants a LVM-like thing for a free Unix. He's workin ># g ># with the Linux guys on creating one fairly similar to the one found on AIX. ># ># The question is, is anybody in the BSD world interested in such a thing? It ># would allow lots of neat things, like extendable partitions. Mirroring ># of logical partitions, etc. > >What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? > > --*greywolf; >From an overview of the AIX system that Dukes has lying around in his directory at NCSU: >Logical Volume Storage Overview >A hierarchy of structures is used to manage fixed-disk storage. Each individual >fixed-disk drive, called a physical volume (PV) has a name, such as >/dev/hdisk0. Every physical volume in use belongs to a volume group (VG). >All of the physical volumes in a volume group are divided into physical >partitions (PPs) of the same size (by default 2MB in volume groups that include >physical volumes smaller than 300MB, 4MB otherwise). >Within each volume group, one or more logical volumes (LVs) are defined. >Logical volumes are groups of information located on physical volumes. Data on >logical volumes appears to be contiguous to the user but can be discontiguous >on the physical volume. This allows file systems, paging space, and other >logical volumes to be resized or relocated, span multiple physical volumes, and >have their contents replicated for greater flexibility and availability in the >Each logical volume consists of one or more logical partitions (LPs). Each >logical partition corresponds to at least one physical partition. If mirroring >is specified for the logical volume, additional physical partitions are >allocated to store the additional copies of each logical partition. Although >the logical partitions are numbered consecutively, the underlying physical >partitions are not necessarily consecutive or contiguous. storage of data. >When performing a command or procedure on the rootvg, you need to be familiar >with its unique characteristics. You create a new volume group with the mkvg >command. You add a physical volume to a volume group with the extendvg command >and remove it from a volume group with the reducevg command. Some of the other >commands that you will be using on volume groups include: change (chvg), list >(lsvg), remove (exportvg), install ( importvg), reorganize (reorgvg), >synchronize (syncvg), make available for use ( varyonvg), and make unavailable >for use (varyoffvg). >You may want to create separate volume groups, however, for security reasons, >because each volume group can have its own security permissions. I'm not sure what security permissions are used on volume groups. The document next goes into how you can easily move things around to replace a disk, for example. >A quorum is a vote of the number of Volume Group Descriptor Areas and Volume >Group Status Areas (VGDA/VGSA) that are active. A quorum ensures data integrity >in the event of a disk failure. >When a quorum is lost, the volume group varies itself off so that the disks are >no longer accessible by the Logical Volume Manager (LVM). This prevents further >disk I/O to that volume group so that data is not lost or assumed to be written >when physical problems occur. >There are cases when it is desirable to continue operating the volume group >even though a quorum is lost. >The most common case for a nonquorum volume group is when the logical volumes >have been mirrored. When a disk is lost, the data is not lost if a copy of >the logical volume resides on a disk that is not disabled and can be accessed. >If a disk failure occurs, the volume group remains active as long as there is >one logical volume copy intact on a disk. It's a rather long document, and it gets into much detail in some places. Neat stuff. Resizable partitions, easy mirroring of individual partitions, reorganizing of partitions with ease. Stability in the event of hardware going bad in run time. Imagine taking a system down, hooking up a drive, then booting multi-user mode. In multi-user mode, add partitions and filesystems as you like. Rearrange as you like. Minimized down time. "Help! My home directory partition is full!" "Hold on a sec.....How's that?" "Wow! Thanks!" Sounds like good stuff to me. Much of this is possible to some extent with AFS, but I think it'd be useful at the disk/filesystem level (in there somewhere ;). Note that JFS figures into this somehow, and I'm not very clear on this (Terry?). I don't know how FFS or ext2fs will fit into it, or if they will. LFS? (Terry?). Is Margo Seltzer around? (Would she be able to contribute any ideas?) Her web pages looked cool (I love web pages with white papers online). If anybody thinks this is a good idea, but doesn't have time, at least let me know that somebody else thinks this is neat stuff. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore, Comp. Sci. \ kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM "Corrected!" -- Old Amiga tips file \ kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM Visit the House of Retrocomputing: / Perm. Email: XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ / kevinneal@bix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 19:30:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA06038 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA06000 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id CAA22146; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:30:29 GMT Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:30:29 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: isdn code In-Reply-To: <199610010029.RAA00510@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >> Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn > > >> code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support > > >> from developers. > > > > > >What is "unsupported" about it such that it makes you want to remove > > >the code? > > > > Well, nobody seems to use it or support it. > > I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real > communications infrastructure, unlike ours. They have a unified ISDN policy like Japan does. Communications monopolies makes this easier I suppose. Surprisingly, Germany's Internet infrastructure seems pretty weak. International ISP's are more likely to access Europe via the UK or Sweden. Anyway, that's a different story. The Teles driver only supports HDLC and does not support PPP, though I think they are working on PPP support. I think most FreeBSD Teles Users in Germany prefer HDLC because it has less overhead than PPP, so most of the effort goes there. This doesn't help for those who need to connect to other vendors devices that are most likely use PPP. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 19:32:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA25628 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.6.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25580 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from roberte@localhost) by ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA02786; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 04:10:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: Robert Eckardt Message-Id: <199610010210.EAA02786@ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Subject: Re: isdn code In-Reply-To: <199610010029.RAA00510@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "30. Sep. 96 17:28:45" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 04:10:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn > > >> code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support > > >> from developers. > > > > > >What is "unsupported" about it such that it makes you want to remove > > >the code? > > > > Well, nobody seems to use it or support it. > > I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real > communications infrastructure, unlike ours. YES, I'm using it. (Me too, me too, ... :-) I see 2 `standard' applications: 1) `fixed' point-to-point connection -- like I'm using right now from home to our institute -- if you are lucky to have the same configuration on both sides. (This is certainly of interest to companys with a few offices located far apart.) 2) dynamic syncPPP or X.75 conections -- like our computer center offers. With the growing popularity (and falling prices :-) things became interesting to John and Jane Doe to connect to thier providers. (is/was being worked on, to my knowledge.) Moreover, I like to use my computer as an answering machine. Robert -- Robert Eckardt \\ FreeBSD -- solutions for a large universe.(tm) RobertE@MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de \\ What do you want to boot tomorrow ?(tm) http://WWW.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de/~roberte For PGP-key finger roberte@gluon.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 19:42:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA12703 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12642 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id CAA22332 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:42:20 GMT Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:42:20 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: ANNOUNCE: INN 1.5b1 (beta) available for testing. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone tried this yet? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted as well. I'm pleased to announce the first public release of an ISC sponsored version of INN. ftp.vix.com:/pub/inn/inn-1.5b1.tar.gz is a beta test version of INN 1.5. Some of the new features beyond any 1.4 version (official or unofficial) are: - Perl and TCL hooks for spam(tm) hunting. - The ability to lock out reader who are connecting at to high a rate (e.g. readers using WWW brosers). - The ability to discourage sucking feeds. - PGP verification of control messages. - XBATCH support. - nnrpd will spool if innd is unavilable. See the README file for more details on these and other more minor changes. Please send all bug reports to . Please send all other INN mail to From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 20:01:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA20252 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA20228 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siva (siva.captech.com [207.33.153.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id TAA22826 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siva.captech.com by siva (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA26710; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:31:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199610010231.TAA26710@siva> To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech@openbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:41:03 +0200." <9166.844112463@critter.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:31:29 -0700 From: James Graham Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp sez: # # Yes we want this. # # >What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? # # Architecture instead of hacks. Methinks I detect a hint of elitism in that statement. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 20:37:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA21910 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21905 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA21944; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610010326.UAA21944@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: James Graham Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:26:52 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:31:29 -0700 James Graham wrote: > # >What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? > # > # Architecture instead of hacks. > > Methinks I detect a hint of elitism in that statement. I'm not worried about that so much as "What hacks are you referring to?" If you're specific, well, maybe some effort could be made to improve the concatenated disk driver. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 21:09:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA24024 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nso.aros.net (blind@nso.aros.net [205.164.111.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA24018 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from blind@localhost) by nso.aros.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA12165 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:08:54 -0600 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:08:54 -0600 From: Administration (nso.aros.net) Message-Id: <199610010408.WAA12165@nso.aros.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD 2.2?... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When is the final release of FreeBSD 2.2 coming out? i want to run FreeBSD but i also want the newest version, i really don't want to run a beta version thats why i'm asking in this email when FreeBSD 2.2 final is coming out? On the web page it says late summer, welp here it is fall and no luck. can you give me some more information, thanks - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 21:25:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA25064 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (friley216.res.iastate.edu [129.186.78.216]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA25050 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley216.res.iastate.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01672; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:24:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199610010424.XAA01672@friley216.res.iastate.edu> To: Michael Hancock cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 01 Oct 1996 08:47:18 +0900. Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:23:53 -0500 From: "Chris Csanady" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, James Graham wrote: > >> # The question is, is anybody in the BSD world interested in such a thing? It >> # would allow lots of neat things, like extendable partitions. Mirroring >> # of logical partitions, etc. >> >> What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? > >The ability to resize partitions in itself is worthwhile. > >JFS or VXFS-like, metadata logging for increased robustness and faster >reboots without the need for fsck in regular operation would also be nice. This would be nice. Terry Lambert mentioned that he had implemented a read only version of JFS, perhaps this would be a good start? Does JFS also use linear directory structures though? I noticed while reading through some docs on XFS, that it implemented directories as b-trees. Im not quite sure how one would implement this, but it sure seems like it would be a win.. Chris Csanady > >Regards, > > >Mike Hancock > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 21:45:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA25999 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA25986 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id EAA23310; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 04:45:04 GMT Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:45:04 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Chris Csanady cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-Reply-To: <199610010424.XAA01672@friley216.res.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Chris Csanady wrote: > >> What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? > > > >The ability to resize partitions in itself is worthwhile. > > > >JFS or VXFS-like, metadata logging for increased robustness and faster > >reboots without the need for fsck in regular operation would also be nice. > > This would be nice. Terry Lambert mentioned that he had implemented a read only > version of JFS, perhaps this would be a good start? > > Does JFS also use linear directory structures though? I noticed while reading through > some docs on XFS, that it implemented directories as b-trees. Im not quite sure how > one would implement this, but it sure seems like it would be a win.. NTFS also uses b-trees. Actually it uses a linear directory structure for small directories and b-trees for larger directories. This optimization reminds me of the direct inode/indirect inode scheme used in FFS. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 21:47:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA26108 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA26099 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA07650; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:46:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Administration (nso.aros.net) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:08:54 MDT." <199610010408.WAA12165@nso.aros.net> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:46:53 -0700 Message-ID: <7646.844145213@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > When is the final release of FreeBSD 2.2 coming out? i want to run FreeBSD bu The web pages need updating. It's not due until early 1997 sometime. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 21:56:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA26637 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA26608 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13991; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.6/8.7.6) id VAA13757; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:56:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ulf Zimmermann" Message-Id: <960930215624.ZM13755@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:56:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: Michael Hancock "Re: isdn code" (Oct 1, 11:30am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0b.514 14may96) To: Michael Hancock , Terry Lambert Subject: Re: isdn code Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 1, 11:30am, Michael Hancock wrote: > Subject: Re: isdn code > On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > >> Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn > > > >> code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support > > > >> from developers. > > > > > > > >What is "unsupported" about it such that it makes you want to remove > > > >the code? > > > > > > Well, nobody seems to use it or support it. > > > > I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real > > communications infrastructure, unlike ours. > > They have a unified ISDN policy like Japan does. Communications > monopolies makes this easier I suppose. > > Surprisingly, Germany's Internet infrastructure seems pretty weak. > International ISP's are more likely to access Europe via the UK or Sweden. > Anyway, that's a different story. > > The Teles driver only supports HDLC and does not support PPP, though I > think they are working on PPP support. I think most FreeBSD Teles Users > in Germany prefer HDLC because it has less overhead than PPP, so most of > the effort goes there. This doesn't help for those who need to connect to > other vendors devices that are most likely use PPP. > > Regards, > > > Mike Hancock > > > > >-- End of excerpt from Michael Hancock Germany has a bad Internet infrastructure because that monopol is driving the prices up. Last january they raised the local prices for analog and ISDN calls 100%. Long distance digital leased got cheaper but are still expensive. :( -- Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 21:58:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA26925 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA26918 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id EAA23354; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 04:55:54 GMT Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:55:54 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: James Graham , hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech@openbsd.org, current-users@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960930224608.0066dee0@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Kevin P. Neal wrote: > Note that JFS figures into this somehow, and I'm not very clear on this > (Terry?). I don't know how FFS or ext2fs will fit into it, or if they will. > LFS? (Terry?). Is Margo Seltzer around? (Would she be able to contribute > any ideas?) Her web pages looked cool (I love web pages with white papers > online). > Ideally, you would be able to write a meta-data logging layer using stackable vnodes. This would enable you to add meta-data logging to different filesystem types without having to overly modify the various filesystems. This is how it's supposed to work in principle anyway. 4.4BSD has them, but unfortunately they're broken. In practice it's very difficult to design and implement stackable vnodes correctly, though I'm optimistic someone will rise to the challenge. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 22:02:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA27323 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA27316 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id FAA23414; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 05:01:59 GMT Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:01:58 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: Julian Elischer , eng@alpo.whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flock/sendmail stuffup In-Reply-To: <199609301816.LAA06288@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > 8-). Already there. flock uses an advisory range lock on the entire > file -- that's how it operates: it's a simplified special case of fcntl() > locking. flock also has better semantics. I think fcntl() still releases all locks when any one process closes the file. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 22:26:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA28160 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (ppp-206-170-5-70.rdcy01.pacbell.net [206.170.5.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA28154 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA14106; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610010524.WAA14106@precipice.shockwave.com> To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/fsdb fsdb.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:34:07 +0200." <199609272134.XAA02422@gvr.win.tue.nl> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:24:47 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/fsdb fsdb.c Terry Lambert wrote: > > This FS *was* fsck'ed after a crash, or it *wasn't* fsck'ed after a > crash? > > If it *wasn't*, then the loop was created in the FS code. > > If it *was*, then the fsck code is faulty. Indeed. It *is* fsck. > > So: can you tell me if the condition resulted from fsck not catching > it after a crash, or if it resulted from normal operation of the FS? > The first. I cannot come up with a scheme in which the FS could create such a directory (in the inode, some references to data blocks are null. fsck does not check non-present blocks and thus the FS passes fsck. The kernel does do the check and finds all zero's and thus all zero chunks where an empty chunk should have it's first byte set to 255). I believe that when adding directory entries, the FS code first allocates a new block (if necessary), update it and then changes the size of the inode. So I have no idea how the situation I sketched above could happen from within the FS code. I just posted a patch that is not yet complete but will at least do the trick. A better one will come in a few days. -Guido I tried your patch, but it looks like the bad directory got rmdir'ed along the way before fsck got a chance to run (it was on our news spool partition and I did some heavy bashing on that disk before rebooting). It hasn't come back since, so who knows how the damn thing go there. :-( From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 23:21:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA00316 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from quagmire.ki.net (root@quagmire.ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00306 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spirit.ki.net (root@spirit.ki.net [205.150.102.51]) by quagmire.ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with ESMTP id CAA05299; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by spirit.ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA01036; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:21:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: spirit.ki.net: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:21:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Administration cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... In-Reply-To: <199610010408.WAA12165@nso.aros.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Administration wrote: > When is the final release of FreeBSD 2.2 coming out? i want to run FreeBSD but i also want the newest version, i really don't want to run a beta version thats why i'm asking in this email when FreeBSD 2.2 final is coming out? On the web page it says lat e summer, welp here it is fall and no luck. can you give me some more information, thanks - > Late summer '97 is more like it :) Actually, I'm running 2.2-SNAP on one of my machines, and its stable, so if you want the "newest" without much risk, try going with that one... Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 23:21:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA00358 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00343 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id QAA15452; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:15:06 +1000 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:15:06 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610010615.QAA15452@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, phk@critter.tfs.com Subject: Re: disklabeling a vn device Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >I am pretty I once managed to create an empty file, vnconfig it and >> >then label amnd newfs it. I forgot how though and I'm stuk with a >> > disklabel: ioctl DIOCWDINFO: Inappropriate ioctl for device >> >error. How is this doen? Label ioctls work better if labels are enabled. Labels are disabled by default for vn disks. Type `vnconfig' with no args to get a usage method about how to enable labels. This isn't documented properly in the man page. >> Dig into src/release/Makefile for the final clue, I can't remember >> but I know that works. > >I just foud out how it can be done: > newfs /dev/rvn0c > >This is undocumented in the newfs manpage though...If I have time >I'll fix it. The equivalent -T option is documented. newfs on unlabeled disk is most often used for floppies. It is convenient because floppy sizes are standard and there are entries in /etc/disktab for them. It is inconvenient for vn and real disks of assorted sizes because you have to edit /etc/disktab to add entries. See /usr/src/release/doFS.sh for how to do it. Gak! NOT. It edits /etc/disktab. It's much easier and cleaner to edit an ASCII label (perhaps in a pipe) and use the -R option to disklabel, e.g.: cd /tmp dd if=/dev/zero of=vnfile bs=1024k count=4 vnconfig -c -s labels /dev/rvn0 vnfile # Extract dummy in-core label for whole disk (/dev/rvn0) and put # it on the (`c' partition on the compatibility slice on the) # disk (/dev/rvn0c). disklabel /dev/rvn0 | disklabel -R -r vn0 /dev/stdin # I'm too lazy to edit the label to create an `a' partition, so # use the `c' partition. newfs /dev/rvn0c Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 23:34:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA00760 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00755 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA23103 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:34:17 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: The whole "compat dist" saga... Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:34:17 -0700 Message-ID: <23101.844151657@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Most of you are already familiar with the compat* distributions that have been a part of FreeBSD since 2.0. They've generally helped people, though they've also occasionally hosed them, so I've kept providing them despite it being a pain the butt to do so. It's been a pain in the butt primarily because we've never automated the process - it's all done by hand and more than a little failure-prone. Ideally, we'd like a registry someplace of all the libraries we've bumped in the current release cycle so that I could do something like: 21_compat: cvs co -P -rRELENG_2_1_0_RELEASE lib && \ if [ -f lib/updatelist ]; then \ for i in `cat lib/updatelist`; do \ (cd $$i ; make all install DESTDIR=$R/compat21) \ done; \ tar -czf $R/dists/compat21.tgz -C $R/compat21 . ; \ fi To build a 2.1 compatibility distribution. This target could be cloned for compat20 and compat215 as well, of course. However, that's only one type of compatibility library. Don't most of you folks think that while selecting "compatibility distributions" in the FreeBSD installation, you should be able to check off Linux or SCO compatibility as well? From the end-user's perspective, it'd seem far preferable to be able to check off a box and have Linux executables Just Work afterwards. If we want to tackle the whole compat distribution question separately from this then that's also fine by me, but I think we should address them both in deciding how serious we really are about making backwards and cross-OS compatibility easier to use than it is now. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 23:48:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA01193 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PACBELL.net (chumash.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01188 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.170.0.50] (ppp-206-170-0-50.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.50]) by PACBELL.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id XAA23654; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leonard@pacbell.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:52:25 -0700 To: jehamby@lightside.com From: leonard@pacbell.net (Leonard Chung) Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > By the way, Linux has done this since the beginning (except that >> > everything is in /proc), and therefore a ps from kernel 0.99.x, in spirit >> > at least, will work on the latest 2.0.x kernel. >> >> How do they ps crash dumps images? >You can ps crash dump images??? :-) >Actually for Linux, I think this is irrelevant, because I don't think >Linux can create crash dumps. By default, I don't think it even made CORE >dumps until recently (there must have been a kernel option to configure >this, but it wasn't obvious to me). Sorry if this sounds really dumb, but I've been wondering, what's the difference between a crash dump and a core dump? Leonard From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 23:48:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA01244 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01221; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA06981; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610010648.XAA06981@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: multimedia@freebsd.org, Jim Lowe Subject: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:20 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, the saga continues . According to Omnimedia the system lock up problem is due to the Natoma Chipset and that the next rev level of the Natoma chipset will have the problem fix. Well, thats all I have managed to learn about my fiasco with the Matrox Meteor, OmniMedia's P1SC and my PPRO 200MHz. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 23:54:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA01553 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01535 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA23194; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:53:11 -0700 (PDT) To: Bruce Evans cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, phk@critter.tfs.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: disklabeling a vn device In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 16:15:06 +1000." <199610010615.QAA15452@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:53:11 -0700 Message-ID: <23191.844152791@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > See /usr/src/release/doFS.sh for how to do it. Gak! NOT. It edits Nobody will be offended if you feel compelled to change any of that script for the better. However, the picture is still not quite so rosy as you paint it: > dd if=/dev/zero of=vnfile bs=1024k count=4 > vnconfig -c -s labels /dev/rvn0 vnfile This spews: vn0: invalid primary partition table: no magic Rather annoyingly on the console and can be fixed as Poul-Henning has done in doFS.sh by doing instead: dd if=/dev/zero of=vnfile bs=1024k count=4 awk 'BEGIN {printf "%c%c", 85, 170}' | \ dd of=vnfile obs=1 seek=510 conv=notrunc 2>/dev/null vnconfig -c -s labels /dev/rvn0 vnfile And: > disklabel /dev/rvn0 | disklabel -R -r vn0 /dev/stdin Produces: disklabel: /dev/rvn0c: Undefined error: 0 :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 30 23:57:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA01743 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01724; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA23226; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:56:57 -0700 (PDT) To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@freebsd.org, Jim Lowe Subject: Re: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:20 PDT." <199610010648.XAA06981@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:56:57 -0700 Message-ID: <23224.844153017@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, the saga continues . According to Omnimedia the system lock up > problem is due to the Natoma Chipset and that the next rev level of > the Natoma chipset will have the problem fix. Well, thats all I have Any work-arounds? Why does `tv' work and `vic' bomb? That's still a mystery worth investigating, I'd think, given how many of these P6 system motherboards have been sold. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 00:12:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA02527 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02508; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA00564; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610010712.AAA00564@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@freebsd.org, Jim Lowe Subject: Re: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:56:57 PDT." <23224.844153017@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 00:12:23 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of "Jordan K. Hubbard" : > > Well, the saga continues . According to Omnimedia the system lock up > > problem is due to the Natoma Chipset and that the next rev level of > > the Natoma chipset will have the problem fix. Well, thats all I have > > Any work-arounds? Why does `tv' work and `vic' bomb? That's still a > mystery worth investigating, I'd think, given how many of these > P6 system motherboards have been sold. > > Jordan Well, I can't get any f*** clear answer from anyone other than both Matrox and OmniMedia are pointing the fingers to Intel. Actually, their case got re-affirm by at least OmniMedia claiming that the Meteor and their card exhibit the same problem -- originally I think Intel didn't pay that much attention to Omnimedia. Actually, an OmniMedia, Matrox Meteor hardware engineer or an Intel hardware engineer involved with the Natoma chipset can step in and clarify the issue . It would be awfully nice if Intel clarifies the issue before the press gets hold of this one --- that is if it is indeed a Natoma chipset problem. As to how to get your existing motherboard fix or your money back from your vendor -- who knows . Intel : deny , silence , then announces new chip revision 8) Look I am way out of my league in trying to analyze the low level PCI protocol which tv and vic generates and yes I have taken a look at vic & tv and there is still no software work around. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 00:22:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA03042 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03037 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA16979 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:22:17 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA08571 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:22:17 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA16232 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:20:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610010720.JAA16232@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: isdn code To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:20:23 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Michael Hancock at "Oct 1, 96 11:30:29 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Hancock wrote: > > I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real > > communications infrastructure, unlike ours. > > They have a unified ISDN policy like Japan does. Communications > monopolies makes this easier I suppose. It's not only a question of monopolies here. The monopoly Telco ``Deutsche Telekom'' even gave up its own switch protocol (1-TR6) in favor of the European one (E-DSS1). One of the few attempts of standardization that seem to work. Even new telco's wouldn't have much chances without offering E-DSS1 now. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 00:24:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA03164 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA03141; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA25414; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:24:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@freebsd.org, Jim Lowe Subject: Re: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 00:12:23 PDT." <199610010712.AAA00564@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 00:24:43 -0700 Message-ID: <25412.844154683@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Look I am way out of my league in trying to analyze the low level > PCI protocol which tv and vic generates and yes I have taken a look > at vic & tv and there is still no software work around. Huh? But tv *works*, implying a readily available work-around for vic by that fact alone! :-) I've never been able to crash my Natoma chipset based machine with tv. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 00:44:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA03856 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA03836; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA00294; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610010743.AAA00294@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@freebsd.org, Jim Lowe Subject: Re: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 00:24:43 PDT." <25412.844154683@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 00:43:53 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would have responded sooner is just that tv did a number on my system: Oct 1 00:33:01 rah /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): timed out in dataout phase, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Oct 1 00:32:49 rah /kernel: meteor0: capture error: odd FIFO overflow. Oct 1 00:33:01 rah /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): timed out in dataout phase, SCSISIGI == 0x0 I managed to generate that by saving images to disk.. So if you are using the Matrox Meteor or the OmniMedia P1SC with a PPRO 200mhz and a Natoma chipset you are taking your chances with the system. BTW: Jordan I know that you are trying to help ... Tnks, Amancio >From The Desk Of "Jordan K. Hubbard" : > > Look I am way out of my league in trying to analyze the low level > > PCI protocol which tv and vic generates and yes I have taken a look > > at vic & tv and there is still no software work around. > > Huh? But tv *works*, implying a readily available work-around for vic > by that fact alone! :-) I've never been able to crash my Natoma > chipset based machine with tv. > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 00:52:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA04200 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04194 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA18314; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:51:55 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA09039; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:51:55 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA16613; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:43:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610010743.JAA16613@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:43:25 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: leonard@pacbell.net (Leonard Chung) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Leonard Chung at "Sep 30, 96 11:52:25 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Leonard Chung wrote: > Sorry if this sounds really dumb, but I've been wondering, what's the > difference between a crash dump and a core dump? A crash dump is a kernel core dump. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 00:52:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA04219 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04207 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA18265; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:51:26 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA09024; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:51:25 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA16514; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:38:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610010738.JAA16514@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:38:08 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: blind@nso.aros.net (Administration) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610010408.WAA12165@nso.aros.net> from Administration at "Sep 30, 96 10:08:54 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Administration wrote: [please, break long lines] > When is the final release of FreeBSD 2.2 coming out? Well, to make a careful statement: not before Q1 1997. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:03:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA04803 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA04784; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA29091; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:03:06 -0700 (PDT) To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@freebsd.org, Jim Lowe Subject: Re: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 00:43:53 PDT." <199610010743.AAA00294@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 01:03:05 -0700 Message-ID: <29089.844156985@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I managed to generate that by saving images to disk.. >So if you are using the Matrox Meteor or the OmniMedia P1SC with a PPRO 200mhz >and a Natoma chipset you are taking your chances with the system. Ah well... So much for that theory! Thanks, Amancio... Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:05:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA04983 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA04963; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10339; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:10:11 +0200 (MET DST) To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: isdn code In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:29:01." <199610010029.RAA00510@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:10:10 +0200 Message-ID: <10337.844153810@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610010029.RAA00510@phaeton.artisoft.com>, Terry Lambert writes: >> Well, nobody seems to use it or support it. > >I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real >communications infrastructure, unlike ours. I'll leave it to the Germans to set you right on that one :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:05:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05018 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA05004; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10522; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:18:49 +0200 (MET DST) To: Jason Thorpe cc: James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:26:52 PDT." <199610010326.UAA21944@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:18:47 +0200 Message-ID: <10520.844154327@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm not worried about that so much as "What hacks are you referring to?" >If you're specific, well, maybe some effort could be made to improve the >concatenated disk driver. The problem I'm referring to is that this should not be done in a pseudo-driver, but as a general framework for bdevs. For instance, why can't I have my root-partition striped ? There is no significant difference between the FDISK, bsd-disklabel, mirror, stripeing and raid 5 operations. They all translate a (dev+blkno+len) tupple to one or more similar tupples. I have been playing with idea this a bit and it's high on my winter project list. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:05:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA04995 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA04973; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10460; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:14:17 +0200 (MET DST) To: James Graham cc: "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech@openbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:31:29 PDT." <199610010231.TAA26710@siva> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:14:16 +0200 Message-ID: <10457.844154056@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610010231.TAA26710@siva>, James Graham writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp sez: ># ># Yes we want this. ># ># >What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? ># ># Architecture instead of hacks. > >Methinks I detect a hint of elitism in that statement. Over here we call it "good taste" :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:11:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05442 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA05436 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA20884 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:14:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199610010814.KAA20884@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:14:34 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at "Oct 1, 96 02:21:04 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Marc G. Fournier: > On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Administration wrote: > > > When is the final release of FreeBSD 2.2 coming out? i want to run > > FreeBSD but i also want the newest version, i really don't want to > > run a beta version thats why i'm asking in this email when FreeBSD 2.2 > > final is coming out? On the web page it says late summer, welp here it > > is fall and no luck. can you give me some more information, thanks - > > > Late summer '97 is more like it :) > > Actually, I'm running 2.2-SNAP on one of my machines, and its > stable, so if you want the "newest" without much risk, try going with > that one... Speaking of witch... Once the new gcc stuff gets to settle for a week or two, wouldn't it be time for a new snap soon? What's the news there, Jordan? :-) /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:14:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05636 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA05629 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id SAA19057; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:12:06 +1000 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:12:06 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610010812.SAA19057@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: disklabeling a vn device Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, phk@critter.tfs.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> See /usr/src/release/doFS.sh for how to do it. Gak! NOT. It edits > >Nobody will be offended if you feel compelled to change any of that I'm trying to teach how simple it is so that I don't have to do the work :-). >script for the better. However, the picture is still not quite so >rosy as you paint it: > >> dd if=/dev/zero of=vnfile bs=1024k count=4 >> vnconfig -c -s labels /dev/rvn0 vnfile > >This spews: > > vn0: invalid primary partition table: no magic > >Rather annoyingly on the console and can be fixed as Poul-Henning has >done in doFS.sh by doing instead: > > dd if=/dev/zero of=vnfile bs=1024k count=4 > awk 'BEGIN {printf "%c%c", 85, 170}' | \ > dd of=vnfile obs=1 seek=510 conv=notrunc 2>/dev/null A warning only. Look the other way (don't look at /dev/console or the logs and don't login as root, use su :-). > vnconfig -c -s labels /dev/rvn0 vnfile > >And: > >> disklabel /dev/rvn0 | disklabel -R -r vn0 /dev/stdin > >Produces: > disklabel: /dev/rvn0c: Undefined error: 0 This happens because read() on the empty file /dev/rvn0c returns 0 and disklabel handles this non-error bogusly. I'm not sure exactly why /dev/rvn0c is empty. Writing the magic number without changing the slice table gives 4 empty slices /dev/rvn0s[1-4]c. One of them apparently became the compatibility slice although it doesn't have type 0xa5. To avoid this problem, you have to create a valid BSD slice of the correct size or the special invalid slice table that says that the disk is "dedicated". Copies of the special table are kept in bootstraps. The simplest way to put one on `vnfile' is: dd if=/usr/mdec/boot1 of=vnfile conv=notrunc It should also be possible to use `fdisk -i vnfile', but device independence of fdisk is currently broken - it mungs the pathname. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:19:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05874 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA05865 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA20910; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:19:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199610010819.KAA20910@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:19:15 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199610010814.KAA20884@ocean.campus.luth.se> from Mikael Karpberg at "Oct 1, 96 10:14:34 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [...] > Speaking of witch... Once the new gcc stuff gets to settle for a week > or two, wouldn't it be time for a new snap soon? What's the news there, > Jordan? :-) Hmm... don't know nobody go get insulted by me not being able to type nor spell... witch == which, ofcourse :-) /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:27:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA06258 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp ([131.113.11.112]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06250 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA01468; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:28:57 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:28:57 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199610010828.RAA01468@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Appletviewer doesn't work on 16bpp server From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.19] 1995-07/21(Fri) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I installed JDK 1.02 on FreeBSD 2.2-960801-SNAP w/ XFree86 3.1.2G. I found that appletviewer does not work on 16bpp server (of course it works fine on 8bpp server). If I execute appletviewer on 16bpp server, it dies with the following error messages. SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation sig 11, code 12 or 0xc, sc 0xefbfb57c, addr 0x9418fff stackbase=0xefbfd448, stackpointer=0xefbfb48c Full thread dump: "thread applet-Animator.class" (TID:0x8584f08, sys_thread_t:0x93a6f28) prio=6 java.lang.Object.wait(Object.java) sun.applet.AppletPanel.getNextEvent(AppletPanel.java:193) sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:224) java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java) "Finalizer thread" (TID:0x85813b0, sys_thread_t:0x9385f28) prio=1 "Async Garbage Collector" (TID:0x8581368, sys_thread_t:0x9364f28) prio=1 "Idle thread" (TID:0x8581320, sys_thread_t:0x9343f28) prio=0 "clock handler" (TID:0x85811f8, sys_thread_t:0x9322f28) prio=11 "main" (TID:0x85810a0, sys_thread_t:0x133200) prio=5 *current thread* sun.awt.motif.MToolkit.(MToolkit.java:49) java.awt.Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit(Toolkit.java:199) java.awt.Window.getToolkit(Window.java:163) java.awt.Frame.addNotify(Frame.java:90) java.awt.Window.pack(Window.java:97) sun.applet.AppletViewer.(AppletViewer.java:183) sun.applet.StdAppletViewerFactory.createAppletViewer(AppletViewer.java:85) sun.applet.AppletViewer.parse(AppletViewer.java:775) sun.applet.AppletViewer.parse(AppletViewer.java:760) sun.applet.AppletViewer.main(AppletViewer.java:899) Monitor Cache Dump: java.lang.Class@8584FB8/18B100 (key=0x8584fb8): monitor owner: "main" sun.applet.AppletViewer@8584A38/85C4A40 (key=0x8584a38): monitor owner: "main" unknown key (key=0x9364f28): unowned Waiting to be notified: "Async Garbage Collector" sun.awt.motif.MToolkit@85850B0/85C61A8 (key=0x85850b0): monitor owner: "main" sun.applet.AppletViewerPanel@8584D60/85C5538 (key=0x8584d60): unowned Waiting to be notified: "thread applet-Animator.class" Registered Monitor Dump: Finalize me queue lock: unowned Waiting to be notified: "Finalizer thread" Thread queue lock: unowned Class lock: unowned Java stack lock: unowned Code rewrite lock: unowned Heap lock: unowned Has finalization queue lock: unowned Monitor IO lock: unowned Child death monitor: unowned Event monitor: unowned I/O monitor: unowned Alarm monitor: unowned Waiting to be notified: "clock handler" Monitor cache lock: unowned Monitor registry: monitor owner: "main" Thread Alarm Q: sys_thread_t 0x9364f28 [Timeout in 729 ms] IOT trap -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp hosokawa@jp.FreeBSD.org WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:33:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA06521 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06508 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id SAA19477; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:26:45 +1000 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:26:45 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610010826.SAA19477@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: disklabeling a vn device Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, phk@critter.tfs.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wrote: >... >To avoid this problem, you have to create a valid BSD slice of the >correct size or the special invalid slice table that says that the >disk is "dedicated". Copies of the special table are kept in >bootstraps. The simplest way to put one on `vnfile' is: > > dd if=/usr/mdec/boot1 of=vnfile conv=notrunc > >It should also be possible to use `fdisk -i vnfile', but device >independence of fdisk is currently broken - it mungs the pathname. This is still too hard. It should be possible to just newfs /dev/rvn0. Device independence of newfs seems to have always been broken. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:41:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA06980 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06967 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA20986; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:44:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199610010844.KAA20986@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Appletviewer doesn't work on 16bpp server To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:44:39 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610010828.RAA01468@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> from HOSOKAWA Tatsumi at "Oct 1, 96 05:28:57 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to HOSOKAWA Tatsumi: > Hi! > > I installed JDK 1.02 on FreeBSD 2.2-960801-SNAP w/ XFree86 3.1.2G. I > found that appletviewer does not work on 16bpp server (of course it > works fine on 8bpp server). > > If I execute appletviewer on 16bpp server, it dies with the following > error messages. [..listing of appletviewer dump removed..] *sigh* How terribly surprising. :-( Note all the sun.blah.blah in there? You can get a black and white sun (well, not anymore, maybe, but...) or you can get one with 8 bpp or one with 24 bpp. Ofcourse their stupid lib has to segv if you use 16 bpp! It's not even supported in x86 slowlaris as far as I know. I think it sucks bigtime. That it affects the FreeBSD port of the JDK is very depressing, though. :-( /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:49:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07218 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (mvs.oac.ucla.edu [164.67.200.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA07201; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610010849.BAA07201@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from UCLAMVS.BITNET by MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (IBM MVS SMTP V2R2.1) with BSMTP id 5400; Tue, 01 Oct 96 01:49:34 PST Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 01:48 PDT To: Amancio Hasty From: Denis DeLaRoca (310) 825-4580 Subject: Re: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... Cc: hackers@FREEBSD.ORG, multimedia@FREEBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:20 -0700, Amancio Hasty said: > > Well, the saga continues . According to Omnimedia the system lock up > problem is due to the Natoma Chipset and that the next rev level of > the Natoma chipset will have the problem fix. Well, thats all I have Does that include Pentium Pro motherboards built around the Intel 430/FX chipset. These are non ATX motherboards. -- Denis From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:53:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07445 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07426; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA00859; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610010853.BAA00859@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Denis DeLaRoca 825-4580 (310) cc: hackers@FREEBSD.ORG, multimedia@FREEBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 01:48:00 PDT." <199610010849.BAA00797@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 01:53:06 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Denis DeLaRoca 825-4580 : > On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:48:20 -0700, > Amancio Hasty said: > > > > Well, the saga continues . According to Omnimedia the system lock up > > problem is due to the Natoma Chipset and that the next rev level of > > the Natoma chipset will have the problem fix. Well, thats all I have > > Does that include Pentium Pro motherboards built around the Intel > 430/FX chipset. These are non ATX motherboards. > > -- Denis > I don't know. The problem that I referring to is with the: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:59:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07693 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07687 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA29678; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:59:00 -0700 (PDT) To: Bruce Evans cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, phk@critter.tfs.com Subject: Re: disklabeling a vn device In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 18:12:06 +1000." <199610010812.SAA19057@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 01:58:59 -0700 Message-ID: <29676.844160339@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure exactly why /dev/rvn0c is empty. Writing the magic number > without changing the slice table gives 4 empty slices /dev/rvn0s[1-4]c. > One of them apparently became the compatibility slice although it doesn't > have type 0xa5. OK, using these hints I've simplied doFS.sh a fair bit. I'll commit the changes just as soon as my test build completes successfully with them. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 01:59:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07734 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07701; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id SAA20352; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:54:46 +1000 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:54:46 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610010854.SAA20352@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dyson@FreeBSD.org, jehamby@lightside.com Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, karl@Mcs.Net Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hey, why don't we build on the KernFS we already have? Let's see: Because sysctl already does things better than kernfs. >hamby1# mount -t kernfs kern /kern # This command always works > # (kernfs is an LKM) >hamby1# ls /kern >bootfile copyright hz pagesize time >boottime hostname loadavg physmem version sysctl kern.bootfile sysctl kern.boottime [no copyright under sysctl] sysctl kern.hostname sysctl kern.clockrate sysctl vm.loadavg sysctl hw.pagesize sysctl hw.physmem sysctl hw.usermem [no time under sysctl - use gettimeofday()] sysctl kern.vers I think the main advantage of kernfs is that it is more efficient in shell scripts. Running sysctl(8) to fetch a value from the kernel and format it nicely takes a while. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 02:09:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA08499 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08494 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA29788; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:01:58 -0700 (PDT) To: Mikael Karpberg cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 10:14:34 +0200." <199610010814.KAA20884@ocean.campus.luth.se> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 02:01:58 -0700 Message-ID: <29786.844160518@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Speaking of witch... Once the new gcc stuff gets to settle for a week > or two, wouldn't it be time for a new snap soon? What's the news there, > Jordan? :-) I'm trying to build it right now, but there are some pathologicals which just got introduced into UserConfig that should be fixed before I release anything. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 02:31:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA09693 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail13.digital.com (mail13.digital.com [192.208.46.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA09681 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:31:00 -0700 (PDT) From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.frt.dec.com by mail13.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.2/1.0/WV) id FAA28827; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 05:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/14Nov95-0232PM) id AA13475; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:28:05 +0100 Message-Id: <9610010928.AA13475@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message from Robert Eckardt of Tue, 01 Oct 96 04:10:23 +0200. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: isdn code Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 11:28:05 +0200 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk roberte@mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de writes: > > > >> Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn > > > >> code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of suppor -t > > > >> from developers. > > > > > > > >What is "unsupported" about it such that it makes you want to remove > > > >the code? > > > > > > Well, nobody seems to use it or support it. > > > > I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real > > communications infrastructure, unlike ours. > > YES, I'm using it. (Me too, me too, ... :-) > > I see 2 `standard' applications: [snip] > 2) dynamic syncPPP or X.75 conections -- like our computer center offers. > With the growing popularity (and falling prices :-) things became > interesting to John and Jane Doe to connect to thier providers. > (is/was being worked on, to my knowledge.) > not with the old code. The only development effort that I'm aware of is using bisdn as the base. bisdn != what's now in the tree. I'd like to know just how many people are using the ISDN code currently in the tree vs. the bisdn stuff which is available on ftp://ftp.muc.ditec.de/isdn/bisdn-0.97.tar.gz (or something like that :) --- Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de (play) gj@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 06:04:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA16155 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA16149 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA20429; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:04:04 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199610011304.IAA20429@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:04:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <29786.844160518@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 1, 96 02:01:58 am Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Speaking of witch... Once the new gcc stuff gets to settle for a week > > or two, wouldn't it be time for a new snap soon? What's the news there, > > Jordan? :-) > > I'm trying to build it right now, but there are some pathologicals > which just got introduced into UserConfig that should be fixed before > I release anything. > If you wait a few days (say, until Thu), I might be able to fix the wire-count problem that a few people have been having. (I am willing to interrupt my FreeBSD vacation :-)). John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 06:17:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA16650 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA16643; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA03824; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:16:02 -0700 (PDT) To: dyson@FreeBSD.org cc: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 08:04:04 CDT." <199610011304.IAA20429@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 06:16:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3822.844175761@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you wait a few days (say, until Thu), I might be able to fix the > wire-count problem that a few people have been having. (I am willing > to interrupt my FreeBSD vacation :-)). I can give it a couple of days, sure. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 06:32:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA17298 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA17293; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA25289; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:32:20 +0200 Message-Id: <199610011332.PAA25289@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2?... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:32:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.org, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3822.844175761@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 1, 96 06:16:01 am From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > > > If you wait a few days (say, until Thu), I might be able to fix the > > wire-count problem that a few people have been having. (I am willing > > to interrupt my FreeBSD vacation :-)). > > I can give it a couple of days, sure. That sounds fine, that way I can get the mouse & splash page stuff ready also. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 06:42:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA17788 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from VNET.IBM.COM (vnet.ibm.com [199.171.26.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA17783 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:42:35 -0700 (PDT) From: david_rankin@VNET.IBM.COM Received: from LEXGATE by VNET.IBM.COM (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 9127; Tue, 01 Oct 96 09:42:48 EDT Received: by LEXGATE (XAGENTA 3.0) id 0629; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:21:40 -0400 Received: by davidr.lexington.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA19746; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:21:47 -0400 Message-Id: <9610011321.AA19746@davidr.lexington.ibm.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal), vps-devel@acm.uiuc.edu Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:21:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech@openbsd.org, current-users@netbsd.org Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960930224608.0066dee0@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Sep 30, 96 06:46:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:46:08 -0400 >To: James Graham >From: "Kevin P. Neal" >Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? >Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech@openbsd.org, current-users@netbsd.org Since this message is only marginally useful to the lists its on, and really useful to vps-devel, I'm setting the Reply-To to vps-devel. >At 12:24 PM 9/30/96 -0700, James Graham wrote: .... >Note that JFS figures into this somehow, and I'm not very clear on this >(Terry?). I believe that jfs happens to be AIX's fs of choice, so it's not inherantly necessary to have it too. That said, I would personally prefer to have a journaling file system, one based on a slightly better performer than generic ffs. (I was actually looking at getting the Viva File system going on the Lite-based systems, and then adding journaling and live expansion to it (It's number three on my to-do list). Check out ftp://al.cs.engr.uky.edu/cs/techreports/225-93.ps.Z for info on VIFS.) >I don't know how FFS or ext2fs will fit into it, or if they will. I seem to remember that "der Mouse" had a program to extend ffs level 2 filesystems, although it met with some serious reservations. Perhaps with more work it could be used on non-live filesystems. I don't know how easy it'd be to resize ext2fs. >LFS? (Terry?). Is Margo Seltzer around? (Would she be able to contribute >any ideas?) Her web pages looked cool (I love web pages with white papers >online). If LFS ever gets fixed, this would be a good candidate for extendability, since all LFS is in the end is one large open space. Of course, the devil is in the details. :) >If anybody thinks this is a good idea, but doesn't have time, at least let >me know that somebody else thinks this is neat stuff. I for one am very glad to see this, because it is number two on my to-do list. (Number one is to get enough disk space to do the rest of the list. ;) As soon as my finances allow a NetBSD source tree, I will be happy to throw what personal time I can in on this. Having seen both AIX's and HP-UX's lvm implementations, there's a few implementation ideas I'd like to share: 1> Extendability should be transparent. AIX does this one right IMHO, allowing for live expansion of file systems, HP-UX (at least in 10.01) made you unmount the filesystem. If someone can engineer one of the file systems to live through being shrunk, either on-the-fly or while inactive, even better (but notice I'm not volunteering :). 2> Movable extents. HP-UX LVM (at least) allows one to move all of the extents (*) on one or more physical partitions (no matter how fragmented) onto different partitions while live (leaving the new arrangement physically contiguous). Since this could be real-time work, it'd make moving data between disks even more convenient. 3> Sparse list implementations One flaw I've seen in HP-UX LVM is that the logical extent to physical extent mapping appears to be in array form, which is IMHO too wasteful of kernal memory. Instead, I'd like to see most of the lists in the kernal be sparse. 4> Some RAID functionality I'm very skittish about RAID 5 in software (it's slow enough in hardware), but allowing striping across physical media and/or mirroring across physical media in software is IMHO a Good Idea when used wisely. Certainly a 2 controller machine with disks on each can manage some nice speed increases when the partition is spread across the controlers. David -- David W. Rankin, Jr. External Email: david_rankin@vnet.ibm.com Internal Email: drankin@davidr.lexington.ibm.com or lexgate(drankin) Phone: (IBM Internal) 8-545-1457 (External) 1-606-243-1457 Alpha Pager: 1-606-259-6309 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 06:46:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA17965 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA17947; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) id IAA13294; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:46:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:46:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199610011346.IAA13294@plains.nodak.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Matrox Meteor & Natoma chipset arg... Cc: multimedia@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk of course they do not say when then next revision of the Natoma chipset is expected to be released and how a person is suppose to distinquish it when ordering. I already sent someone to buy a Pentium when they wanted a Pentium Pro because they want to run a metoer. Thanks for the information. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 07:22:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA19670 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU (BLOOM-BEACON.MIT.EDU [18.181.0.26]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19665 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU (8.6.13/25-eef) with UUCP id KAA07147 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:11:47 -0400 Received: from localhost by orchard.medford.ma.us (8.6.9/1.34) id OAA06598; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:11:10 GMT Message-Id: <199610011411.OAA06598@orchard.medford.ma.us> To: david_rankin@vnet.ibm.com cc: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal), vps-devel@acm.uiuc.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, tech@openbsd.org, current-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:21:45 -0400 (EDT) ." <9610011321.AA19746@davidr.lexington.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 10:10:17 -0400 From: Bill Sommerfeld Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1> Extendability should be transparent. > AIX does this one right IMHO, allowing for live expansion of file > systems, HP-UX (at least in 10.01) made you unmount the filesystem. This actually depends on the filesystem. HP-UX 10 includes UFS and VxFS (though they're called HFS and JFS for marketing reasons). If you have the full-strength (extra cost) VxFS installed you can expand it without unmounting.. - Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 08:13:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA22438 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA22430 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp-089.etinc.com (ppp-089.etinc.com [204.141.95.148]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA20174; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:23:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:23:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199610011523.LAA20174@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Ulf Zimmermann" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: isdn code Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Oct 1, 11:30am, Michael Hancock wrote: >> Subject: Re: isdn code >> On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> > > >> Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn >> > > >> code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of >support >> > > >> from developers. >> > > > >> > > >What is "unsupported" about it such that it makes you want to remove >> > > >the code? >> > > >> > > Well, nobody seems to use it or support it. >> > >> > I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real >> > communications infrastructure, unlike ours. >> >> They have a unified ISDN policy like Japan does. Communications >> monopolies makes this easier I suppose. >> >> Surprisingly, Germany's Internet infrastructure seems pretty weak. >> International ISP's are more likely to access Europe via the UK or Sweden. >> Anyway, that's a different story. >> >> The Teles driver only supports HDLC and does not support PPP, though I >> think they are working on PPP support. I think most FreeBSD Teles Users >> in Germany prefer HDLC because it has less overhead than PPP, so most of >> the effort goes there. This doesn't help for those who need to connect to >> other vendors devices that are most likely use PPP. Oh....I am in such pain right now! PPP is a protocol that runs either async or sync...if its sync then it runs with HDLC framing...the 2 are not mutually exclusive...sync PPP runs over HDLC. So I dont know what this paragraph above means...since HDLC is not a PTP protocol that can be used by itself in most cases..... Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 08:25:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA22940 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.pa-consulting.com (ns.pa-consulting.com [193.118.224.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA22928 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM by ns.pa-consulting.com (8.6.4) id QAA19865; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:35:03 +0100 Received: by SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM with Microsoft Mail id <3251ABFE@SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM>; Tue, 01 Oct 96 16:40:46 PDT From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-hackers Subject: CYRIX Code in locore.s Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 16:24:00 PDT Message-ID: <3251ABFE@SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM> Encoding: 24 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I just got a DX2/66 to upgrade my DX33 with and had a wander around locore.s because what I thought was an SGS-Thompson chip got identified as a Cyrix chip. I have now discovered that they are the same so thats okay. What I dod come across was a load of #ifdef CYRIX_CACHE_WORKING code which intreged me. I think I have worked out what it does (ie. make all memory cacheable) but it doesnt want to compile because a couple of Cyrix specific control register bits are not defined (CR0_NW and CR_C?). Can anyone confirm if this code is needed and give me the definitions for CR0_??. Thanks Duncan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 08:58:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA25813 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25803 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01219 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610011558.IAA01219@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 to: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: isdn code In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:28:05 +0200." <9610010928.AA13475@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 08:58:01 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So what is going to happen , if a hacker lets say in California ( I know a remote possibility) gets hold of lets say the programming info for lets say the intel isdn card? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 09:03:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA26353 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA26345; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11882; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:03:11 +0200 (MET DST) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: "Ulf Zimmermann" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: isdn code In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:23:32 EDT." <199610011523.LAA20174@etinc.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 18:03:11 +0200 Message-ID: <11880.844185791@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610011523.LAA20174@etinc.com>, dennis writes: >Oh....I am in such pain right now! > >PPP is a protocol that runs either async or sync...if its sync then it runs >with HDLC >framing...the 2 are not mutually exclusive...sync PPP runs over HDLC. My Zyxel TA can actually talk async PPP on my side and ISDN/SYNC PPP on the net side, quite neat. To the rest on this line: Dennis doesn't like ISDN, and will try to put it down as much as possible to boost his own Frame Relay stuff, don't spend too much time arguing with him. Poul-Henning From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 09:12:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA27137 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27087; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11941; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:11:36 +0200 (MET DST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: isdn code In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 08:58:01 PDT." <199610011558.IAA01219@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 18:11:36 +0200 Message-ID: <11939.844186296@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610011558.IAA01219@rah.star-gate.com>, Amancio Hasty writes: > >So what is going to happen , if a hacker lets say in California >( I know a remote possibility) gets hold of lets say the programming >info for lets say the intel isdn card? > He will get in touch with the bisdn group and work with them we hope. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 09:21:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA27869 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27860 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA00870; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610011611.JAA00870@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:11:18 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Keeping in mind, I haven't been thinking about mass storage for some time, and was hoping to keep my brain out of that mode, but whatever :-) ] On Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:18:47 +0200 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > The problem I'm referring to is that this should not be done in a > pseudo-driver, but as a general framework for bdevs. > > For instance, why can't I have my root-partition striped ? I think a better question is "why would I _want_ my root partition striped?" :-) (The real answer to your question is "Becuse then you've added unnecessary clutter to the ccd configuration code to deal with both statically- and synamically-configured ccds". In my mind, saying that your MUST WORK AT ALL COSTS fileystem isn't allowed to be striped is an acceptable trade-off :-) > There is no significant difference between the FDISK, bsd-disklabel, > mirror, stripeing and raid 5 operations. They all translate a > (dev+blkno+len) tupple to one or more similar tupples. ...True, but the way they're translated makes a world of difference. In the case of mirroring, you're translating a into multiple for writes, and for reads, you want to find the least-busy component, attempt the read, and then retry with another component if that read fails (indeed, you want to continue trying until you're out of living components). The vast majority of the code in the ccd is dealing with configuration (looking up the components, constructing the interleave table, etc.) The actual translation code is small ... The same is true of the mirror driver I started (but never finished). It was mostly configuration, though the translation code was a bit more complicated due to "mirroring on writes, read from least busy with error recovery" semantics. The mirror driver also, by design, doesn't support disklabels (doesn't make any sense, really; perhaps I just want to mirror a single partition). In short, the semantics of "tupple translation" are vastly different from ccd, and on planet 9 compared to regular partition translation. Smashing the configuration of those two drivers (I'd actually rather call them `layers') together would be silly, because they have different configuration needs. In my little world, the right way to get mirroring + striping is to either: - make several 2- or 3- (or N-)way `mirror disks' and use those mirror disks as components for a ccd. - make 2, 3 (or N) identical ccds, and use those as the components of a `mirror disk'. ...depending on the behavior you want (probably the former). It's not clear there's any real architecural benefit from creating a generic framework for doing this sort of tranlation. In fact, I see at least one very negative outcome: you slow down and bloat up the simple case of partition translation (which, as it stand now, is very fast, and very simple). Having worked with IRIX's logical volume stuff, the principle of KISS was high on my list when doing the ccd work :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 09:32:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA28829 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA28820; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA01098; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610011621.JAA01098@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, karl@mcs.net Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:21:48 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:54:46 +1000 Bruce Evans wrote: > I think the main advantage of kernfs is that it is more efficient in > shell scripts. Running sysctl(8) to fetch a value from the kernel > and format it nicely takes a while. Actually, if I remember right, the whole point of kernfs was really just an example of something cool you could do with the 4.4BSD vfs code. (Keeping in mind I'm talking about NetBSD here) I don't usually rely on it for _anything_ (even in shell scripts, though a port or two use it for access to the msgbuf .. saves having to include dmesg in the miniroot :-) because I'm not willing to tell a user "you have to have this in your kernel, or else you will lose." [ going back to what the original topic seems to have been... ] In my mind, using /proc for ps(1) is just silly... if you're reading structures, you still have the same problem as you have now, if you're reading and parsing strings (more "portable"), it gets slow. Besides, you have to keep the kvm code in ps(1) anyhow, else you lose the ability to analyze crashdumps with it. The marginal gain doesn't seem worth the clutter. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 09:53:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01247 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01227; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610011653.JAA01227@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Jason Thorpe cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:11:18 PDT." <199610011611.JAA00870@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:53:02 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > For instance, why can't I have my root-partition striped ? > >I think a better question is "why would I _want_ my root partition striped?" >:-) > >(The real answer to your question is "Becuse then you've added unnecessary >clutter to the ccd configuration code to deal with both statically- >and synamically-configured ccds". In my mind, saying that your >MUST WORK AT ALL COSTS fileystem isn't allowed to be striped is an >acceptable trade-off :-) Actually, I don't think it is. CCD should be relying on information stored in a private area of the disk to determine what stripe sets what partitions belong to, etc. This is how all of the industrial strength filesystem VM systems work. When you open the partition, you see it has a CCD block on it, and then pass it on to CCD informing it of the dev that the block came from. The upside to this is that you can re-arange your disks (even put them on different controllers) and the system still finds your array and makes it work. Having my root FS on a RAID 5 device makes it more robust than having it on a single disk. This is more than enough justification for allowing you to do this. >Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov >NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 >NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 >Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 10:29:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA03677 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magigimmix.xs4all.nl (magigimmix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03655 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by magigimmix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id TAA25823 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:29:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.2) with UUCP id TAA01118 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:21:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA01687; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:02:49 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: isdn code References: <87hgofffmn.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 01 Oct 1996 07:02:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: Michael Hancock's message of Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:30:29 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <877mpbff9i.fsf@plm.xs4all.nl> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.39/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:30:29 +0900 (JST), Michael Hancock >> said: MH> The Teles driver only supports HDLC and does not support PPP, MH> though I think they are working on PPP support. I think most MH> FreeBSD Teles Users in Germany prefer HDLC because it has less MH> overhead than PPP, so most of the effort goes there. This MH> doesn't help for those who need to connect to other vendors MH> devices that are most likely use PPP. In the Netherlands (where ISDN has become very popular) you almost always need syncPPP; sometimes X.75 will do too. AFAIK noone uses the ISDN code in /usr/src, but a separate distribution called bisdn. It supports the Teles, but no syncPPP or X.75 yet (which means it's useless for me and most others in the Netherlands). -- Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | Trust is a good quality plm@xs4all.nl | the Netherlands | for other people to have From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 10:33:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA03929 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lamb.sas.com (lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA03922 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mozart by lamb.sas.com (5.65c/SAS/Gateway/01-23-95) id AA09274; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:33:42 -0400 Received: from gamecock.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA08154; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:33:33 -0400 Received: by gamecock.unx.sas.com (5.65c/SAS/Generic 9.01/3-26-93) id AA28903; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:33:32 -0400 From: David Quattlebaum Message-Id: <199610011733.AA28903@gamecock.unx.sas.com> Subject: Re: hackers-digest V1 #1502 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:33:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199610011514.IAA22450@freefall.freebsd.org> from "owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org" at Oct 01, 1996 08:14:03 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0a10] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk get freebsd-questions-digest n01.v1411 get freebsd-questions-digest n01.v1412 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 10:47:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04789 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA04781 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA06486 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:47:11 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA00502 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:30:29 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199610011830.TAA00502@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: disabling FIFO in sio To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:30:29 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I think there was some tool to disable the use of the 16550A FIFO on a sio line. I experience some overrun trouble on an Apple laserwriter and want to try to disable the FIFO. But: I forgot about the tool/way to do this. Pointer appreciated Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 10:48:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04887 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04880 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id KAA03859; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18199; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610011748.KAA18199@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Duncan Barclay cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: CYRIX Code in locore.s In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 01 Oct 96 16:24:00 -0700. <3251ABFE@SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 10:48:20 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I just got a DX2/66 to upgrade my DX33 with and had a [...] >a Cyrix chip. I have now discovered that they are the [...] >What I dod come across was a load of >#ifdef CYRIX_CACHE_WORKING >code which intreged me. I think I have worked out [...] Don't mess with that. It's not for your chip. That code is intended solely for making 486DLCs (& SLCs) work with motherboards that don't correctly support cache invalidation. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 10:57:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05546 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05536 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01968; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:56:25 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011756.KAA01968@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: isdn code To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:56:25 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Oct 1, 96 11:30:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The Teles driver only supports HDLC and does not support PPP, though I > think they are working on PPP support. I think most FreeBSD Teles Users > in Germany prefer HDLC because it has less overhead than PPP, so most of > the effort goes there. This doesn't help for those who need to connect to > other vendors devices that are most likely use PPP. Sounds like a situation where you'd want to say "American, if you want support, write it", not "German, we are going to drop your driver unless you support American hardware and protocols". Sound like the code isn't being Americanized; that's far different than it not being maintained. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 10:59:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05743 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05736 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA19663; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:58:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:58:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Jason Thorpe cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? In-Reply-To: <199610011621.JAA01098@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Jason Thorpe wrote: > In my mind, using /proc for ps(1) is just silly... yup. the /proc approach is easy from the point of view of some uses, but suppose you want to do continuous monitoring of kernel variables for some reason. The best way it seems to me is to mmap the kernel address space in and simply monitor what you need to monitor. One of the worst ways is to periodically call a read() system call that vectors through vfs to /proc -- that's a big chunk of time to get the same information. Also, suppose you want to look at something that's not in the current /proc -- you have to build the kvm walker anyway. /proc is nice but does have its limitations. ron Ron Minnich |"If you leave out all the killings, D.C. has as rminnich@sarnoff.com | low a crime rate as many cities" -- (609)-734-3120 | D.C. Mayor Marion Barry ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:01:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA05885 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05880 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02000; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:00:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011800.LAA02000@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: flock/sendmail stuffup To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:00:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@whistle.com, eng@alpo.whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Oct 1, 96 02:01:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > 8-). Already there. flock uses an advisory range lock on the entire > > file -- that's how it operates: it's a simplified special case of fcntl() > > locking. > > flock also has better semantics. I think fcntl() still releases all locks > when any one process closes the file. I will have to check it. If it does, it is in error. Locks must be explicitly released, or there is an implied release on decrement of reference count from 1->0. In other words, it's in the close() code, not the exit code that calls the close code. There *does* need to be two counting references -- instantiation count vs. open count, since an object in the name cache is considered to be instantiated, but not necessarily reference for the purpose of resource tracking the locks. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:02:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA05973 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05962 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0v898v-000I6aC; Tue, 1 Oct 96 19:02 MET Received: by ernie.kts.org (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0v88Ky-000009C; Tue, 1 Oct 96 19:10 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: isdn code To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:10:28 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <11880.844185791@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Oct 1, 96 06:03:11 pm Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > To the rest on this line: Dennis doesn't like ISDN, and will try to > put it down as much as possible to boost his own Frame Relay stuff, Wasn't this Terry ? ;-) hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:02:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06027 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06002 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0v898x-000I6bC; Tue, 1 Oct 96 19:02 MET Received: by ernie.kts.org (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0v88QE-000009C; Tue, 1 Oct 96 19:15 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: isdn code To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:15:54 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199610011558.IAA01219@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Oct 1, 96 08:58:01 am Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty wrote: > So what is going to happen , if a hacker lets say in California > ( I know a remote possibility) gets hold of lets say the programming > info for lets say the intel isdn card? Lets say this hacker has access to a photocopier and lets say there are such things like envelopes and stamps available in - lets say California .. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:14:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06915 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06909 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02070; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:13:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011813.LAA02070@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quick question about getopt To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:13:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199609300628.IAA11391@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 30, 96 08:28:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (Me:) > > > Except that all tools that compare the result against EOF should also > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > be changed to compare it against -1 then. [...] > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > > According to the POSIX quotation, these tools are no longer compliant, > > and should look for -1 instead. > > > > Fix the bogus tools, not the POSIX mandated interface. > > So what? We are in violent agreement? Why did you post then? A > ``Me, too'' posting? :) The English "should" is non-declarative. You could have either been saying (a) that the change should be made, OR (b) that because of the additional changes necessary, the change should not be made. I just read it the wrong way; sorry. > Plus the crosspost to -hackers and -current, seems it hasn't been your > best day yesterday, Terry? ;-) I explained the crosspost in a private email exchange with you; for the record, yours is the only complaint I got. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:16:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07107 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07101 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA02439; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610011806.LAA02439@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:06:17 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:53:02 -0700 "Justin T. Gibbs" wrote: > Actually, I don't think it is. CCD should be relying on information stored > in a private area of the disk to determine what stripe sets what partitions > belong to, etc. This is how all of the industrial strength filesystem VM > systems work. When you open the partition, you see it has a CCD block > on it, and then pass it on to CCD informing it of the dev that the block > came from. The upside to this is that you can re-arange your disks (even > put them on different controllers) and the system still finds your array > and makes it work. Having my root FS on a RAID 5 device makes it > more robust than having it on a single disk. This is more than enough > justification for allowing you to do this. Just where do you propose to keep this information? (Hint: it's going to be machine-dependent.) When you say "open the partition", which partition are you opening? (Hint: if you're opening /dev/sd0a, then you have to put all kinds of crap to find the "ccd block" in the SCSI disk driver, and the IDE disk driver, and the Xylogics disk drivers, and...) How does the way the ccd is configured not allow you to move your disks around (to different controllers, etc.)? (Hint: it doesn't.) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:19:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07278 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:19:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07271 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02088; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:18:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011818.LAA02088@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: greywolf@siva.captech.com (James Graham) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:18:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: kpneal@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech@openbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609301924.MAA21052@siva> from "James Graham" at Sep 30, 96 12:24:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? > > --*greywolf; What, aside from lots of money, would going into business give us over living in our parents basements? 8-). Isn't extendable partitions enough? How about relocatable PP's ("Physical Partitions"), so that you could implement software fault tolerance and automatic data migration using a hierarchical storage management schema? How about a good platform for transaction processing? CCD and LVM are only similar on their faces. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:20:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07489 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07460 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA01973 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:20:07 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id UAA14773 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:19:52 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.0/keltia-uucp-2.9) id TAA07480; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:51:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610011751.TAA07480@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:51:33 +0200 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Hancock on Oct 1, 1996 08:47:18 +0900 References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.45i Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2522 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Michael Hancock: > The ability to resize partitions in itself is worthwhile. Yes as long as we don't lose too much speed... Something I've always hated about JFS on AIX is that it is dog slow. > JFS or VXFS-like, metadata logging for increased robustness and faster > reboots without the need for fsck in regular operation would also be nice. It is called LFS and it is supposed to be more usable in lite2... LFS + LVM would be very nice to have. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #23: Sun Sep 29 14:56:23 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:22:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07639 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07627 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02102; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:21:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011821.LAA02102@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:21:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609302032.WAA03754@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Sep 30, 96 10:32:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > According to Terry Lambert: > > > everything is in /proc), and therefore a ps from kernel 0.99.x, in spirit > > > at least, will work on the latest 2.0.x kernel. > > That's only in spirit though. I've seen enough people to whom was given the > advice of upgrading to the latest "ps" (even proc-ps as opposed as > kmem-ps)... That wasn't me. My posting had to do with abstracting the interface. For the advice you suggest to be effective, the abstraction has to have been flubbed... ie: they don't have the abstraction that my posting was talking about. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:30:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA08143 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pat.idt.unit.no (pat.idt.unit.no [129.241.103.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07788 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from idt.unit.no (hyll.idt.unit.no [129.241.200.3]) by pat.idt.unit.no (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA17515 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:22:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610011822.UAA17515@pat.idt.unit.no> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mew version 1.03 on Emacs 19.31.1 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 20:22:39 +0200 From: Tor Egge Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've written a device driver for an ISA card that has the potential of generating interrupts as fast as the machine is able to handle them. It is not a common situation, but it may happens for short periods at a time (e.g. 0.3 seconds). One problem though, is that this may cause a high interrupt latency (0.3 seconds), with the net effect that one RTC interrupt is lost. Profiling and CPU time accountings stops working. In an attempt to avoid losing an RTC interrupt, I've recently added some code to the interrupt handler in the device driver to check for a pending timer interrupt and a repeatedly pending RTC interrupt. If such an interrupt is pending, the restart of the device is performed in a timeout routine called by softclock instead of in the interrupt handler, causing all pending hardware interrupts to be processed. This seems to work, and prohibit the loss of RTC interrupts, but I found no good method of checking for pending/blocked interrupts: ((imen & 1) || (inb(IO_ICU1) & 1)) and ((imen & 256) || (inb(IO_ICU2) & 1)) are not what I would consider easily readable code to check for pending IRQ0 and IRQ8. A macro as e.g.: #define INTRBLOCKED(i) ((imen & (1<<(i))) || (inb((i)>=8?IO_ICU2:IO_ICU1)&(1<<((i)&7)))) can cause the code to be more readable, but may also add some overhead unless the compiler manages to reduce it to the variants shown earlier. Maybe a better way is to rewrite the fastintr handler, to enable the ICUs before calling the interrupt handler? Then the interrupt handler could enable interrupts, disable interrupts, and just check the imen variable instead of polling the interrupt controller. Then a macro for the check would be trivial, e.g.: #define INTRBLOCKED(i) (imen & (1<<(i))) I cannot immediately see any reasons not to reenable the ICUs before calling the interrupt handler from the fast interrupt vector code in vector.s, since interrupts are disabled by default when the interrupt handler is called. Any good suggestions? - Tor Egge From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:50:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA10811 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10775 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02189; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:49:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011849.LAA02189@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:49:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: greywolf@siva.captech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech@openbsd.org, current-users@NetBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960930224608.0066dee0@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Sep 30, 96 06:46:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Note that JFS figures into this somehow, and I'm not very clear on this > (Terry?). JFS scales linearly for additional space. > I don't know how FFS or ext2fs will fit into it, or if they will. Expanding an FFS or ext2fs does not work well because the geometry dictates the allocation policy. The result in FFS of incremental instead of initial expansion would be logarithmically increasing fragmentation of the FS as each expansion boundry is hit. We (Artisoft) considered this problem in terms of providing an in place conversion tool for upgrading a disk from FAT/VFAT/VFAT32 to FFS. The conclusion was that if we allocated one cylinder group at a time, we could in-place convert, but the price of doing so would be that each cylinder group would be framented all to heck. It is the existance of multiple cylinder groups that ensures FFS's architectural immunity to fragmentation. To counter this, it would be required to either build a "defragmenter" for FFS (something which is normally unnecessary, since allocation policy over a static domain prevents fragmentation), or to build the defragmentation into the conversion tool itself. For an analogy, an FS which requires defragmentation is like building a lock manager that uses deadlock detection. An FS which avoids fragmentation in the first place because of its architecture is like bulding a lock manager that uses deadlock avoidance. If a condition is avoidable (fragmentation is), it's a hell of a lot less work to avoid it than it is to recover from it. You can run a gendanken experiment of an FFS with a single cylinder group, and see that the fragmentation *must* be severe for incremental increase (as an in place conversion would cause, or as an LVM would cause). The difference is whether the defragmentation could be in the conversion tool (easy) or in a standalone program (harder). For LVM, there is no choice: it must be in the standalone program to be runnable after an extention, and to "compact" data for recovery of an extent (taking away a PP from an FFS). If you run it to compact, after the PP removal, you will need to run it again to defragment. The ext2fs will have the same issues, for reason of contiguity. It is questionable whether it is possible to in-place convert to ext2fs at all, let alone doing it without fragmentation (breaking up the extents into non-contiguous blocks). At the very least, you will lose most of the value of extent-based storage as a result. Finally, ext2fs has a similar problem with defragmentation, since relocaton of extents in an almost full FS has the same problems as an in place conversion -- it is very difficult, and is generally expected to take external backup media (a backup/restore will do just as effective a job on ext2fs as on FFS). > LFS? (Terry?). I would suggest asking Margo. It is my expectation from the shared code in FFS and LFS (the UFS code for directory management, etc.) that LFS would have similar problems, at least for directories, as FFS. There is an implicit restriction here that directory fragments must imply file fragments. The question is what is the storage increment for a log file, and will the access geometry for an existing FS make this "not really matter". My gut feeling is that an LFS would have similar problems as FFS. > Is Margo Seltzer around? (Would she be able to contribute any ideas?) > Her web pages looked cool (I love web pages with white papers online). She's around; I don't know if she wastes her time listening to us, though. 8-). > If anybody thinks this is a good idea, but doesn't have time, at least let > me know that somebody else thinks this is neat stuff. LVM is neat stuff the same was CCD is neat stuff. Both are classes of operational data storage objects which can be implemented as either logical-to-physical or logical-to-logical device mappings in a devfs. Other operational data storage objects you could implement as well: o Media perfection; unlike bad144, it can apply to the control areas of the disk (disklabel, etc.) as well as to the storage areas o DOS partitioning o BSD disklabel partitioning (can use same ioctl interface as DOS or any other partition management mechanism -- ONE "fdisk" program for all partitioning) o DOS extended partitioning o Sun disklabel partitioning o SVR4 VTOC partitioning o volume spanning (LVM is a subclass of volume spanning) o striping o mirroring etc. Yes, this stuff is neat. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:52:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA11214 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11189 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02203; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:51:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011851.LAA02203@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: greywolf@siva.captech.com (James Graham) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:51:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, kpneal@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech@openbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610010231.TAA26710@siva> from "James Graham" at Sep 30, 96 07:31:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Poul-Henning Kamp sez: > # >What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us over CCD? > # > # Architecture instead of hacks. > > Methinks I detect a hint of elitism in that statement. Next you'll accuse Poul of intentionally not running DOS. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 11:57:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA11537 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11530 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02217; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:56:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011856.LAA02217@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: ccsanady@friley216.res.iastate.edu (Chris Csanady) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:56:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: michaelh@cet.co.jp, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610010424.XAA01672@friley216.res.iastate.edu> from "Chris Csanady" at Sep 30, 96 11:23:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The ability to resize partitions in itself is worthwhile. > > > >JFS or VXFS-like, metadata logging for increased robustness and faster > >reboots without the need for fsck in regular operation would also be nice. > > This would be nice. Terry Lambert mentioned that he had implemented > a read only version of JFS, perhaps this would be a good start? It depends on some intermediate work that has not been committed. I have most recently torn apart the VOP_READDIR interface to get rid of "cookies" for NFS; this is a pretty significant change, since it classes seperate FS "consumers" (the syscall interface is a consumer, NFS is a consumer, any other kernel file server -- NetWare, AFS, RFS, etc. -- would also be a consumer). > Does JFS also use linear directory structures though? No. > I noticed while reading through some docs on XFS, that it implemented > directories as b-trees. Im not quite sure how one would implement > this, but it sure seems like it would be a win.. Depends. Do you have a strong requirement that they be balanced? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 12:02:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA11850 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA11844 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA02235; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:01:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011901.MAA02235@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:01:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: ccsanady@friley216.res.iastate.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Oct 1, 96 01:45:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > NTFS also uses b-trees. Actually it uses a linear directory structure for > small directories and b-trees for larger directories. This optimization > reminds me of the direct inode/indirect inode scheme used in FFS. NTFS would be a better choice, since JFS is pretty much IBM specific. The only reason I pursued JFS at all was for cross developement in my PPC porting environment. My developement is hosted under AIX. Biunary compatability issues were a secondary consideration (after making the thing boot). One of my big blocks has been replacing the IBM boot code with freely distributable boot code; I don't have a decent PPC disassembler, and Arrow Electronics has failed to send the PPCBug documentation to the right address or via the right shipper to the tune of multiple hundreds of dollars. This is made worse by the fact that PPCBug is "going away", to be replaced by OpenBoot. All in all, for compatability, an NTFS would be a better choice, since FreeBSD is currently very Intel specific anyway. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 12:06:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15058 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (root@cats-po-1.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15051 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from baloo.ucsc.edu by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id MAA16283; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:06:35 -0700 Received: by baloo.ucsc.edu (8.6.10/4.7) id MAA07249; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:06:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199610011906.MAA07249@baloo.ucsc.edu> From: buhrow@cats.ucsc.edu (Brian Buhrow) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:06:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Justin T. Gibbs" "Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest?" (Oct 1, 9:53am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Jason Thorpe Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We're running Veritos and Online: Disk Suite from Sun here at UCSC. Veritos uses the technique Justin describes of keeping its configuration information strewn about on private areas of the disks it administers. Online: Disksuite keeps it's configuration information in replicated text files on non-striped or concatinated volumes on the machine. Neither package, as far as I'm aware, allows you to mirror or stripe or concatinate / or /usr. From my perspective as an administrator of systems which use both types of virtual disk drivers, I have to say that I like the NetBSD way of keeping the configuration file in a flat text file much better. Veritos is powerful, but it doesn't auto-recover from failed disks, and it is very hard to manage its configuration information precisely because it is stored on distributed areas of disks which are unreachable by mere mortals living on FFS filesystems. We have over 120 spindles (120GB) being controlled by Veritos. In order to construct a reasonable description of how all those disks are layed out, as well as one that can be used to repair that layout after a disk failure, one needs to run five (5) or six(6) different tools to verify that one has written down all the correct information. Even then, it is very easy for some small piece to get out of sync, and thereby wipe out the validity of all that note paper. Online: Disk Suite, on the other hand, which we're using to manage a much smaller farm of disks, is a joy to manage over long periods of time because the same configuration file that the machine uses to keep track of its configurations is the one that one can print out and save for emergency backup operations. If you want to make a change, simply edit the configuration file and run the appropriate parser to import that change into memory. If you have a number of administrators looking after the system, simply put the configuration file under RCS and thereby obtain a history of what is going on on your system. While I like the theoretical benefits of having auto-configuring virtual disk drivers, I have not seen that functionality work reliably on so-called "industrial strength" systems. Instead, the complexity and opaqueness of the system has cost us a lot of extra money, both in general maintenance terms and in times of failures. I would be strongly opposed to a CCD which did not use a text-file based configuration scheme, and I am more than willing to give up striping and concatinating the root filesystem in order to meet that goal. If I only have to roll one backup tape for a system of over 20 gigabytes, and can be sure that that backup tape gives me the full ability to restore all of the configuration information on the system, I'm a happy camper indeed! -Brian On Oct 1, 9:53am, "Justin T. Gibbs" wrote: } Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? } > > For instance, why can't I have my root-partition striped ? } > } >I think a better question is "why would I _want_ my root partition striped?" } >:-) } > } >(The real answer to your question is "Becuse then you've added unnecessary } >clutter to the ccd configuration code to deal with both statically- } >and synamically-configured ccds". In my mind, saying that your } >MUST WORK AT ALL COSTS fileystem isn't allowed to be striped is an } >acceptable trade-off :-) } } Actually, I don't think it is. CCD should be relying on information stored } in a private area of the disk to determine what stripe sets what partitions } belong to, etc. This is how all of the industrial strength filesystem VM } systems work. When you open the partition, you see it has a CCD block } on it, and then pass it on to CCD informing it of the dev that the block } came from. The upside to this is that you can re-arange your disks (even } put them on different controllers) and the system still finds your array } and makes it work. Having my root FS on a RAID 5 device makes it } more robust than having it on a single disk. This is more than enough } justification for allowing you to do this. } } >Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov } >NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 } >NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 } >Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 } } -- } Justin T. Gibbs } =========================================== } FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations } =========================================== >-- End of excerpt from "Justin T. Gibbs" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 12:19:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17849 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA17824 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA02275; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:18:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610011918.MAA02275@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:18:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: kpneal@pobox.com, greywolf@siva.captech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech@openbsd.org, current-users@NetBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Oct 1, 96 01:55:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In practice it's very difficult to design and implement stackable vnodes > correctly, though I'm optimistic someone will rise to the challenge. In practice, a file system is not a database. A file system is a set of events and actions. There is a dependency graph for action ordering. If you consider the file system in terms of this graph, there are node relationships with commutative and associative properties. Soft updates, as implemented in FFS by Ganger/Patt, takes specific advantage of the commutative and associative propertives of these node updates, for FFS *only*, and imposes queue ordering semantics on scheduling of actions. The Ganger/Patt work is a specific soloution to a problem that is a member of a more general problem set (this is why it is a mistake to pursue soft updates for only one FS implementation, like Keith is currently doing. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of time to try and get a hold of him about the problem). If you consider all FS's in this light, then what you end up with is: 1) a graph 2) a list of relationships between nodes in the graph 3) a finite state automaton model for node conflict resoloution This leads to the design of a FS independent soft update mechanism that operates by: 1) when the FS is instantiated, the node relationship is registered and callback routines for action handling are registered to handle events 2) at the same time, callback routines for conflict resoloution suring commutation and association operations are registered So you end up with a defined "bottom layer" that is used by all FS's which which to communicate with storage media, and you interpose this layer between the FS and the VM system. For stacking, you can imply an action queue flush as a default mechanism fro resolving conflict. Ideally, you would provide conflict resoloution inter-FS layer. I think the difficulty you see is exagerated by looking at the problem from the traditional FS design perspective. Most of the issues that are apparent from that perspective fall out when you look at it from another angle. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 12:21:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA18230 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.codix.fr (mail.net.codix.fr [194.98.13.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA18217 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aida.codix.fr ([194.98.13.104]) by mail.codix.fr (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11468) with ESMTP id AAA48 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:15:46 +0100 From: dderny@mail.codix.fr (didier derny) To: Subject: ccd Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:19:08 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19961001191545627.AAA48@aida.codix.fr> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I have an urgent need of the procedure to install ccd to mirror two disk. Is there some howto, somewhere I've not found anything in the handbook/faq I'm using 2.1.5-release thanks for your help please reply by email, I' not subscribed to the list ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- Didier Derny Private FreeBSD 2.2-current site Email: dderny@mail.codix.fr Homepage: http://www.idiom.com/~aida/didier ask not what FreeBSD can do for you, ask what you can do for FreeBSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 12:39:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA19268 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA19255; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA15060; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:38:57 +0200 (MET DST) To: buhrow@cats.ucsc.edu (Brian Buhrow) cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Jason Thorpe , James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 12:06:24 PDT." <199610011906.MAA07249@baloo.ucsc.edu> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:38:56 +0200 Message-ID: <15058.844198736@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610011906.MAA07249@baloo.ucsc.edu>, Brian Buhrow writes: > We're running Veritos and Online: Disk Suite from Sun here at UCSC. >Veritos uses the technique Justin describes of keeping its configuration >information strewn about on private areas of the disks it administers. >Online: Disksuite keeps it's configuration information in replicated text >files on non-striped or concatinated volumes on the machine. Neither >package, as far as I'm aware, allows you to mirror or stripe or concatinate >/ or /usr. Veritas >DOES< allow you to mirror /, /var and /usr We run it here too. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 12:45:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA19630 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siva (siva.captech.com [207.33.153.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19625 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siva.captech.com by siva (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA20686; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:43:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199610011943.MAA20686@siva> To: Jason Thorpe cc: "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:11:18 PDT." <199610011611.JAA00870@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 12:43:23 -0700 From: James Graham Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jason Thorpe sez: # # [Poul-Henning Camp sez]: # > There is no significant difference between the FDISK, bsd-disklabel, # > mirror, stripeing and raid 5 operations. They all translate a # > (dev+blkno+len) tupple to one or more similar tupples. 1. Minor nit: (x+y+z) is a triple, not a tuple. 2. There is no difference between the operations? You've obviously not dealt with a RAID5 filesystem before. Nice idea, but you pay for it with performance. And yes, I consider performance significant. The first time I ran the ccdconfig thing and tried to newfs it, I ended up running it on unevenly sized filesystems (OK) with an interleave of 1 (NOT OK!). Boy, was THAT _slow_! Not to mention I wanted concatenation anyway... :-) I haven't had the opportunity to stripe or mirror a filesystem yet (insufficient disk space and differently-sized disks make this a bit of a challenge), so I can't comment on performance. But it's nice to have the concatenation as when I partitioned my disks, I had one piddly partition of 70MB left over. Seeing as that wasn't really enough with which to do jack, I concatenated it to my user disk. # # Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov # NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 # NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 # Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 --*greywolf; From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 12:51:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA19917 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA19909; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA15100; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:44:42 +0200 (MET DST) To: Jason Thorpe cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:06:17 PDT." <199610011806.LAA02439@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:44:42 +0200 Message-ID: <15098.844199082@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610011806.LAA02439@lestat.nas.nasa.gov>, Jason Thorpe writes: >On Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:53:02 -0700 > "Justin T. Gibbs" wrote: > > > Actually, I don't think it is. CCD should be relying on information stored > > in a private area of the disk to determine what stripe sets what partitions I agree. >Just where do you propose to keep this information? > >(Hint: it's going to be machine-dependent.) not if done right. I know at least one VolMgr that will search the first X Mb of the disk looking for a signature... >When you say "open the partition", which partition are you opening? > >(Hint: if you're opening /dev/sd0a, then you have to put all kinds of >crap to find the "ccd block" in the SCSI disk driver, and the IDE disk >driver, and the Xylogics disk drivers, and...) Jason, you clearly havn't seen the light. I'll compose an email with my design idea, and send it but it may not be until tomorrow that I get to it. CCD is way to narrowminded. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 13:12:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA21642 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA21625; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610012012.NAA21625@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Jason Thorpe cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:06:17 PDT." <199610011806.LAA02439@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 13:12:51 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Just where do you propose to keep this information? > >(Hint: it's going to be machine-dependent.) VxFS runs on many different different platforms and uses this approach, but I would expect a per OS not per machine type solution. I haven't given it a tremendous amount of thought, but I assumed that it would be part of the BSD disklabel. >When you say "open the partition", which partition are you opening? > >(Hint: if you're opening /dev/sd0a, then you have to put all kinds of >crap to find the "ccd block" in the SCSI disk driver, and the IDE disk >driver, and the Xylogics disk drivers, and...) Don't these drivers already have to know how to find the BSD disklabel? >How does the way the ccd is configured not allow you to move your >disks around (to different controllers, etc.)? > >(Hint: it doesn't.) Last time I looked at CCD, it did. What I mean by moving my disks around is handling situations like, "Gee, I'm not getting enough bandwidth using only one controller here. I think I'll buy a second one and split up my disks." After turning off the machine, sticking in the new controller and messing with some cables, I should be able to simply power on the system and have everything work transparently. >Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov >NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 >NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 >Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 13:56:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA24498 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24491 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA02395; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:54:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610012054.NAA02395@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: leonard@pacbell.net (Leonard Chung) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:54:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Leonard Chung" at Sep 30, 96 11:52:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sorry if this sounds really dumb, but I've been wondering, what's the > difference between a crash dump and a core dump? A crash dump has: system image (kmem), including all processes It is a dump of the OS virtual address space. A core dump has: core image of single process It is a dump of a process virtual address space. A crashdump occurs when the machine panics and must be rebooted. A coredump occurs when a process gets a segmentation violation, a bus error, an unhandled floating exception, an illegal instruction, or another error which causes the process to be unable to continue running. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 14:08:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA25736 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25723 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02434; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:07:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610012107.OAA02434@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: isdn code To: hm@kts.org Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:07:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Oct 1, 96 07:10:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > To the rest on this line: Dennis doesn't like ISDN, and will try to > > put it down as much as possible to boost his own Frame Relay stuff, > > Wasn't this Terry ? ;-) No; I favor frame relay because I can go over 64k without bonding and over 128k at all. I also favor it for an ISP because I need only one connection termination for the cloud, and I don't have to buy DSU's and routers and fan out cards. I could, if I wanted, terminate the T1 to the cloud at my NSP and have no real transport overhead, as an ISP offering FR end-pointing. For a 50% peak bandwith overcommit, I can charge about $80/Month in a US West service area. This is about $220/Month cheaper than ISDN and still leaves me $60k/year to run a support desk. If I increase my overcommit, or my charges, it gives me some slack, some profit taking, and some expansion capitol. It's the difference between buying an answering machine or the RBOC giving you voice messaging on your line with no extra cruft at your site. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 14:10:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA25904 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25888 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02450; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:09:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610012109.OAA02450@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:09:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199610011751.TAA07480@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Oct 1, 96 07:51:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > JFS or VXFS-like, metadata logging for increased robustness and faster > > reboots without the need for fsck in regular operation would also be nice. > > It is called LFS and it is supposed to be more usable in lite2... LFS + LVM > would be very nice to have. Journalling and logging are two distinctly different technologies. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 14:18:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA26714 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26699 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by diablo.ppp.de (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0v8CCx-000QmKC; Tue, 1 Oct 96 22:18 MET Received: from [193.141.161.123] (monster.pong.ppp.de [193.141.161.123]) by pong.PPP.DE (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA08800; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:57:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199610010029.RAA00510@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <9041.844108890@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Sep 30, 96 08:41:30 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:58:45 +0200 To: Terry Lambert , phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) From: Stefan Bethke Subject: Re: isdn code Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 17:29 Uhr +0200 30.09.1996, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> Unless sufficient many people come out in defense of the current isdn >> >> code in the FreeBSD tree, it will be removed because of lack of support >> >> from developers. >I thought many Germans were using it, since their country has a real >communications infrastructure, unlike ours. Nope. We're using bisdn, which we hope can be committed soon after rewriting the parts that are under copyright dispute with the original authors of the isdn code (bisdn is in part derived from that). -- Stefan Bethke Hamburg, Germany From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 14:32:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA27948 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27934 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02509; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:31:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610012131.OAA02509@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:31:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, greywolf@siva.captech.com, kpneal@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610011806.LAA02439@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Oct 1, 96 11:06:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Actually, I don't think it is. CCD should be relying on information stored > > in a private area of the disk to determine what stripe sets what partitions > > belong to, etc. This is how all of the industrial strength filesystem VM > > systems work. When you open the partition, you see it has a CCD block > > on it, and then pass it on to CCD informing it of the dev that the block > > came from. The upside to this is that you can re-arange your disks (even > > put them on different controllers) and the system still finds your array > > and makes it work. Having my root FS on a RAID 5 device makes it > > more robust than having it on a single disk. This is more than enough > > justification for allowing you to do this. > > Just where do you propose to keep this information? > > (Hint: it's going to be machine-dependent.) > > When you say "open the partition", which partition are you opening? > > (Hint: if you're opening /dev/sd0a, then you have to put all kinds of > crap to find the "ccd block" in the SCSI disk driver, and the IDE disk > driver, and the Xylogics disk drivers, and...) > > How does the way the ccd is configured not allow you to move your > disks around (to different controllers, etc.)? > > (Hint: it doesn't.) ,--------------------------------. | device consumer (fs, whatever) | +--------------------------------+ | logical device stacking layer | +--------------------------------+ | real disk driver layer | `--------------------------------' A device exported for consumption by a device consumer has the exported attribute: a) number of blocks It has the internal attributes of: a) start block b) block map c) virtual container device in stack order d) virtual container device in optimization order ('a' and 'b' are interpreted in terms of 'd' for the purpose of the in core device record) For a typical logical device stacking layer we are treating contiguous block ranges: ,-----------------------. | DOS partition table | <-- logical device layer private data +-----------------------+ | DOS partition 1 start | ... <-- exported logical device | DOS partition 1 end | +-----------------------+ | DOS partition 2 start | ... <-- exported logical device | DOS partition 2 end | +-----------------------+ ... `-----------------------' We can consider a DOS partition (partition 1) containing a BSD disklabel: ,-----------------------. | BSD disklabel | <-- logical device layer private data +-----------------------+ | slice 'a' start | ... <-- exported logical device | slice 'a' end | +-----------------------+ | slice 'b' start | ... <-- exported logical device | slice 'b' end | +-----------------------+ ... `-----------------------' We can consider the same things regarding: o volume set membership identifiers o DOS extended partitioning o disklabels from "foreign" systems o SVR4 VTOC We can also consider a "media perfection layer" as exporting a single device smaller than the device it overlays, with bad area replacement. Again, for typical logical devices, the layering collapses: DOS partitioning overlays physical device and exports partitions a) start block 0 b) block map none (linear) c) VCD (stack) physical device d) VCD (opt.) physical device BSD partition is DOS partition 1 a) start block 64 b) block map none (linear) c) VCD (stack) DOS partition 1 logical device d) VCD (opt.) physical device root device is BSD slice a a) start block 78 (64 + 8k) b) block map none (linear) c) VCD (stack) BSD slice 'a' logical device d) VCD (opt.) physical device In other words, there is no additional stacking overhead after device instantiation for linearly mapped devices, and no additional overhead beyond what we would encounter anyway for non-linear devices (like CCD, LVM, and/or media perfection devices). Pretty obvious, actually. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 14:42:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA29018 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29008; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00441; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:41:54 +0200 (MET DST) To: Terry Lambert cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, greywolf@siva.captech.com, kpneal@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 14:31:09 PDT." <199610012131.OAA02509@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 23:41:53 +0200 Message-ID: <439.844206113@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610012131.OAA02509@phaeton.artisoft.com>, Terry Lambert writes: > >In other words, there is no additional stacking overhead after device >instantiation for linearly mapped devices, and no additional overhead >beyond what we would encounter anyway for non-linear devices (like >CCD, LVM, and/or media perfection devices). > >Pretty obvious, actually. For once I find myself in agreement with Terry. Better go to bed RIGHT NOW! :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 14:54:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00398 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.urbana.mcd.mot.com (allegro.urbana.mcd.mot.com [144.191.64.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00379 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by allegro.urbana.mcd.mot.com (8.6.8.2/1.34.allegro) id QAA11949; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:53:06 -0500 From: smadhur@allegro.urbana.mcd.mot.com (Nivas Madhur) Message-Id: <199610012153.QAA11949@allegro.urbana.mcd.mot.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:53:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: buhrow@cats.ucsc.edu, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, greywolf@siva.captech.com, kpneal@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <15058.844198736@critter.tfs.com> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Oct 1, 96 09:38:56 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > In message <199610011906.MAA07249@baloo.ucsc.edu>, Brian Buhrow writes: > > We're running Veritos and Online: Disk Suite from Sun here at UCSC. > >Veritos uses the technique Justin describes of keeping its configuration ... > >files on non-striped or concatinated volumes on the machine. Neither > >package, as far as I'm aware, allows you to mirror or stripe or concatinate > >/ or /usr. > > Veritas >DOES< allow you to mirror /, /var and /usr > > We run it here too. > The earlier releases wouldn't allow you to put /, /var and /usr under volume manager control. But starting with 1.2 release, you can do this. nivas ...................................................................... Nivas Madhur (nivas@urbana.mcd.mot.com) Motorola Computer Group 1101 E. University Av Urbana IL 61801 - My opinions, not Motorola's From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 15:51:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA06087 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06079 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA18165 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:51:20 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA25666 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:51:19 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA18938 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:34:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610012234.AAA18938@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: isdn code To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:34:12 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610011756.KAA01968@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 1, 96 10:56:25 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > Sound like the code isn't being Americanized; that's far different than > it not being maintained. No, it's not maintained, not even from my un-American point of view. Much unlike the bisdn package, which actually _is_ maintained (and shall be integrated into the source tree when its time has come). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 16:40:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA11075 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cygnus.com (cygnus.com [140.174.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11066 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tweedledumb.cygnus.com (tweedledumb.cygnus.com [192.80.44.1]) by cygnus.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA07869 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:40:05 -0700 Received: from lenin.cygnus.com by tweedledumb.cygnus.com (4.1/4.7) id AA06719; Tue, 1 Oct 96 19:40:03 EDT Received: (from explorer@localhost) by lenin.cygnus.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01350 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:40:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Graff Message-Id: <199610012340.TAA01350@lenin.cygnus.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Copyright messages on the SCSI man pages Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have borrowed the man pages from FreeBSD, modified them for NetBSD, and started checking them in. However, I do not know what copyright I should place on the files. Does anyone know the origin of these? Thanks, --Michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 17:15:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA14119 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA14113 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id AAA01291; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:14:59 GMT Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:14:58 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: isdn code In-Reply-To: <199610011756.KAA01968@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > The Teles driver only supports HDLC and does not support PPP, though I > > think they are working on PPP support. I think most FreeBSD Teles Users > > in Germany prefer HDLC because it has less overhead than PPP, so most of > > the effort goes there. This doesn't help for those who need to connect to > > other vendors devices that are most likely use PPP. > > Sounds like a situation where you'd want to say "American, if you want > support, write it", not "German, we are going to drop your driver unless > you support American hardware and protocols". > > Sound like the code isn't being Americanized; that's far different than > it not being maintained. Or you can look at it as not strongly supporting a broader audience. For example, most of the major vendors support multiple international interfaces. It's should just be a configuration option, select ATT, NT, NTT, EuroISDN, etc. The communications gurus tell me that it really isn't that difficult to provide support the for various interfaces. However, in this case you do need to consider how many people will buy the Teles card in the US or elsewhere. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 17:20:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA14442 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA14436 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id AAA01323; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:20:25 GMT Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:20:25 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@whistle.com, eng@alpo.whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flock/sendmail stuffup In-Reply-To: <199610011800.LAA02000@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > 8-). Already there. flock uses an advisory range lock on the entire > > > file -- that's how it operates: it's a simplified special case of fcntl() > > > locking. > > > > flock also has better semantics. I think fcntl() still releases all locks > > when any one process closes the file. > > I will have to check it. If it does, it is in error. Locks must be I think Posix also adopted it's bogosity, because too many vendors complained. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 18:01:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA16909 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA16903 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id BAA01620; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:01:11 GMT Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:01:11 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-Reply-To: <199610011751.TAA07480@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Michael Hancock: > > The ability to resize partitions in itself is worthwhile. > > Yes as long as we don't lose too much speed... Something I've always hated > about JFS on AIX is that it is dog slow. VxFS isn't dog slow. > > JFS or VXFS-like, metadata logging for increased robustness and faster > > reboots without the need for fsck in regular operation would also be nice. > > It is called LFS and it is supposed to be more usable in lite2... LFS + LVM > would be very nice to have. LFS, while very cool, is a very different animal. It requires a *lot* of RAM by design because it assumes that the majority of reads will be done on the cache. It optimizes disk writes at the expense of disk reads. Probably a reasonable assumption for Future Cool Hardware, TM. The LFS cleaner daemon scheduling algorithm might make for some interesting work. When do you clean? The answer is going to be different for different people. The current implementation still lacks an fsck, which you still would want to have available. Contrast it with meta-data logging which is usually an extension of an existing fs. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 18:02:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA16937 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA16931 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA21968; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:00:45 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199610020100.UAA21968@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: isdn code To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:00:45 -0500 (EST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Oct 2, 96 09:14:58 am Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > The Teles driver only supports HDLC and does not support PPP, though I > > > think they are working on PPP support. I think most FreeBSD Teles Users > > > in Germany prefer HDLC because it has less overhead than PPP, so most of > > > the effort goes there. This doesn't help for those who need to connect to > > > other vendors devices that are most likely use PPP. > > > > Sounds like a situation where you'd want to say "American, if you want > > support, write it", not "German, we are going to drop your driver unless > > you support American hardware and protocols". > > > > Sound like the code isn't being Americanized; that's far different than > > it not being maintained. > ... > ATT, NT, NTT, EuroISDN, etc. > > The communications gurus tell me that it really isn't that difficult to > provide support the for various interfaces. > It is somewhat true if you are just sending data. Hopefully, someday, we would support sophisticated call control features. Imagine a device that can INTEGRATE data and voice seamlessly. The call control features (above Q931) is where the differences become significant. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 18:07:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA17216 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (friley216.res.iastate.edu [129.186.78.216]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA17210 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley216.res.iastate.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05994; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:06:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199610020106.UAA05994@friley216.res.iastate.edu> To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 01 Oct 1996 12:01:06 -0700. <199610011901.MAA02235@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 20:06:13 -0500 From: "Chris Csanady" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> NTFS also uses b-trees. Actually it uses a linear directory structure for >> small directories and b-trees for larger directories. This optimization >> reminds me of the direct inode/indirect inode scheme used in FFS. > >NTFS would be a better choice, since JFS is pretty much IBM specific. >The only reason I pursued JFS at all was for cross developement in >my PPC porting environment. My developement is hosted under AIX. >Biunary compatability issues were a secondary consideration (after >making the thing boot). One of my big blocks has been replacing the >IBM boot code with freely distributable boot code; I don't have a >decent PPC disassembler, and Arrow Electronics has failed to send >the PPCBug documentation to the right address or via the right shipper >to the tune of multiple hundreds of dollars. This is made worse by >the fact that PPCBug is "going away", to be replaced by OpenBoot. > >All in all, for compatability, an NTFS would be a better choice, >since FreeBSD is currently very Intel specific anyway. I think I'd rather we went with JFS rather than NTFS, just on general principle. :) Or something else entirely perhaps. I was just thinking that it might be worth it considering that its partially done.. and perhaps improving upon it.. Chris Csanady > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 18:55:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA20220 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s204m16.whistle.com [207.76.204.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA20215 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA12197; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3251CA7E.2F1CF0FB@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 18:50:54 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Graff CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Copyright messages on the SCSI man pages References: <199610012340.TAA01350@lenin.cygnus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Graff wrote: > > I have borrowed the man pages from FreeBSD, modified them for NetBSD, and > started checking them in. However, I do not know what copyright I should > place on the files. > > Does anyone know the origin of these? well I wrote some of them.. they go under the general BSD copyright.. would be nic eif w eknow which pages you mean.. I could tell you which ones I wrote.. > > Thanks, > --Michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 18:55:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA20292 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA20287 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA02975; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:54:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610020154.SAA02975@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: ccsanady@friley216.res.iastate.edu (Chris Csanady) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:54:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610020106.UAA05994@friley216.res.iastate.edu> from "Chris Csanady" at Oct 1, 96 08:06:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >All in all, for compatability, an NTFS would be a better choice, > >since FreeBSD is currently very Intel specific anyway. > > I think I'd rather we went with JFS rather than NTFS, just on general > principle. :) Or something else entirely perhaps. I was just thinking > that it might be worth it considering that its partially done.. and > perhaps improving upon it.. For what it's worth, there is a read-only NTFS source code for Linux downloadable from a german site. HPFS is at the same site. So they are both at the same level. I don't think people would want to have to mount their disk in an AIX box (considering I haven't written a newfs or fsck or ...). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 19:06:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA21050 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21037 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA03025; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:05:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610020205.TAA03025@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:05:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Oct 2, 96 10:01:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > According to Michael Hancock: > > > The ability to resize partitions in itself is worthwhile. > > > > Yes as long as we don't lose too much speed... Something I've always hated > > about JFS on AIX is that it is dog slow. > > VxFS isn't dog slow. VxFS and FFS are within 5% of the same speed on UnixWare, assuming you set your default block size for FFS to 8k (it defaults to 4k, apparently so that VXFS would look good). Which way the 5% goes depends on the operations. If you have ever worked on the VXFS source code (I did at USL), you will already know that it has piece of FFS in it; the directory entry management code is almost pure FFS, for instance. FFS in UnixWare 2.x implements delayed ordered writes (a patent-pending async write ordering guarantee mechanism belonging to USL -- it may have been patented by now). FFS in UnixWare 2.x kicks VXFS's ass by about 60%. JFS, on the other hand, is pretty dog slow. I always thought it was because of the GFS abstraction. > LFS, while very cool, is a very different animal. It requires a *lot* of > RAM by design because it assumes that the majority of reads will be done > on the cache. It optimizes disk writes at the expense of disk reads. > Probably a reasonable assumption for Future Cool Hardware, TM. 8-). > The LFS cleaner daemon scheduling algorithm might make for some > interesting work. When do you clean? The answer is going to be different > for different people. The cleaner code was only recently fixed up by Margo for Lite2. It didn't seem to work at all in Lite. > The current implementation still lacks an fsck, which you still would want > to have available. In a modern design, ther eis little need for an fsck barring catastrophic media failure -- you can fix everything in the mount. You would think that "Future Cool Hardware, TM" would be fault tolerant. 8-). 8-). > Contrast it with meta-data logging which is usually an extension of an > existing fs. Metadata logging isn't as interesting as logging in general. If you don't do logging in general, you don't buy yourself the ability to implement rollback/rollforward of transactions with implied state across several files. For instance, a data base record file and a database index file that uses a write of the new record to an unallocated record and a write of the index to a log to make the transaction atomic. File systems are the most interesting things... 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 19:08:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA21154 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21147 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA17154; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:35:05 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199610020205.LAA17154@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: disabling FIFO in sio To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:35:04 +0930 (CST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610011830.TAA00502@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Oct 1, 96 07:30:29 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte stands accused of saying: > > I think there was some tool to disable the use of the 16550A FIFO > on a sio line. I experience some overrun trouble on an Apple laserwriter > and want to try to disable the FIFO. > > But: I forgot about the tool/way to do this. > > Pointer appreciated The 'sio' manpage describes how to do this. I presume the overruns are in the laserscribbler, not on the BSD end? > Wilko -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 19:33:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA23101 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23090 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmacd@localhost) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA01845 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:33:24 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:33:24 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199610020233.TAA01845@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: XDrawString Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am running into some funnyness on my FreeBSD machine that I can't duplicate anywhere else, so I'll inquire here. I'm running FreeBSD deceit.xcf.berkeley.edu 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Sep 22 18:42:02 PDT 1996 jmacd@deceit.xcf.berkeley.edu:/home3/current-src/sys/compile/DECEIT i386 and have a little X application that simply draws a string to the window. The reason I wrote this application to begin with was that I am writing a text widget and I wanted to know how X handled XDrawString calls when the string length runs way off the window, I wanted to see whether it would clip it in a sensible manner. My results showed that XDrawString on a 2048 character string, where only 50 or so are on-screen takes much longer than the same call with only the visible length supplied. This strikes me as a rather stupid way to do things, but thats just an opinion. The problem arises when I draw strings longer than a certain length, the text actually wraps around and starts drawing over the previous text. I run Xaccell, so then I tried the same application with an XFree86 server, and the string does not draw at all. On either the DEC Ultrix server or Linux Xaccell server I ran it on both displayed the string without wrapping. So I'm curious whats going on. Here's the application. On the XF86 server it doesn't draw the string, on the Xaccell server it wraps the string around, and on Linux and Ultrix it works "correctly". Is the meaning of such a call well defined? -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 19:34:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA23227 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23220 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmacd@localhost) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA01872 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:34:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 19:34:25 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199610020234.TAA01872@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: XDrawString Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I forgot to insert the source: #include #include #include #include #include #ifndef MIN #define MIN(a,b) ((a) < (b) ? (a) : (b)) #endif #define STRING "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQR" int main (int argc, char *argv[]) { Display *display; Window window; GC gc; XGCValues xgcv; XSetWindowAttributes attributes; XEvent event; long attributes_mask; char *display_name; int done; int i; int len = 650; display_name = NULL; if (argc == 3) if (strcmp (argv[1], "-display") == 0) display_name = argv[2]; display_name = XDisplayName (display_name); display = XOpenDisplay (display_name); if (!display) { fprintf (stderr, "could not open display: \"%s\"\n", display_name); exit (1); } fprintf (stdout, "successfully opened display: \"%s\"\n", display_name); XSynchronize (display, 1); fprintf (stdout, "turning on X synchronization\n"); attributes.event_mask = (KeyPressMask | KeyReleaseMask | ButtonPressMask | ButtonReleaseMask | PointerMotionMask | EnterWindowMask | LeaveWindowMask | KeymapStateMask | ExposureMask | VisibilityChangeMask | StructureNotifyMask | FocusChangeMask | PropertyChangeMask | ColormapChangeMask | OwnerGrabButtonMask); attributes.background_pixel = BlackPixel (display, DefaultScreen (display)); attributes.border_pixel = BlackPixel (display, DefaultScreen (display)); attributes_mask = CWBackPixel | CWBorderPixel | CWEventMask; window = XCreateWindow (display, DefaultRootWindow (display), 0, 0, 300, 300, 0, DefaultDepth (display, DefaultScreen (display)), InputOutput, DefaultVisual (display, DefaultScreen (display)), attributes_mask, &attributes); fprintf (stdout, "successfully created window\n"); XMapWindow (display, window); fprintf (stdout, "successfully mapped windows\n"); fprintf (stdout, "attempting graphics context creation\n"); xgcv.foreground = 0x00FFFFFF; xgcv.background = 0x00000000; gc = XCreateGC (display, window, (GCForeground | GCBackground), &xgcv); fprintf (stdout, "successfully created graphics context\n"); done = 0; while (!done) { XNextEvent (display, &event); switch (event.type) { case KeyPress: case KeyRelease: done = 1; break; case ButtonRelease: break; case ButtonPress: XClearWindow (display, window); printf ("drawing string of length %d\n", len); XDrawString (display, window, gc, 10, 100, STRING, MIN (strlen(STRING), len)); len += 10; len = MIN (strlen (STRING), len); break; } } XCloseDisplay (display); return 0; } From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 20:51:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA27514 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kechara.flame.org (kechara.flame.org [192.80.44.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27501 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from explorer@localhost) by kechara.flame.org (8.7.6/8.6.9) id XAA23964; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:50:58 -0400 (EDT) To: Julian Elischer Cc: Michael Graff , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Copyright messages on the SCSI man pages References: <199610012340.TAA01350@lenin.cygnus.com> <3251CA7E.2F1CF0FB@whistle.com> From: Michael Graff Date: 01 Oct 1996 23:50:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: Julian Elischer's message of Tue, 01 Oct 1996 18:50:54 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.36/Emacs 19.31 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > Does anyone know the origin of these? > well I wrote some of them.. > they go under the general BSD copyright.. > would be nic eif w eknow which pages you mean.. > I could tell you which ones I wrote.. Well, I meant to include the word SCSI in there. :) I don't know where it went to... sd.4, su.4, uk.4, etc. --Michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 21:27:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA00436 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00422 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA26957; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:27:36 -0700 (PDT) To: Josh MacDonald cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XDrawString In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 19:33:24 PDT." <199610020233.TAA01845@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:27:36 -0700 Message-ID: <26955.844230456@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > text. I run Xaccell, so then I tried the same application with an > XFree86 server, and the string does not draw at all. On either the > DEC Ultrix server or Linux Xaccell server I ran it on both displayed > the string without wrapping. So I'm curious whats going on. Here's As it does on the FreeBSD version of AcceleratedX (1.3) I just tested it with. Can't test it against XFree86 as I have a Matrox. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 21:29:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA00655 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00643 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA02072; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:29:36 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199610020429.VAA02072@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XDrawString In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:27:36 PDT." <26955.844230456@time.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2065.844230574.1@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:29:36 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > text. I run Xaccell, so then I tried the same application with an > > XFree86 server, and the string does not draw at all. On either the > > DEC Ultrix server or Linux Xaccell server I ran it on both displayed > > the string without wrapping. So I'm curious whats going on. Here's > > As it does on the FreeBSD version of AcceleratedX (1.3) I just tested > it with. Can't test it against XFree86 as I have a Matrox. Wait, you're saying that you're running the same server as I am. Did you not experience any troubles? (I have AcceleratedX 1.3). -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 21:36:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01384 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01379 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id EAA03330; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 04:36:13 GMT Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:36:13 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Chris Csanady cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NTFS (was Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest?) In-Reply-To: <199610020106.UAA05994@friley216.res.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Chris Csanady wrote: > >> NTFS also uses b-trees. Actually it uses a linear directory structure for > >> small directories and b-trees for larger directories. This optimization > >> reminds me of the direct inode/indirect inode scheme used in FFS. > > > >All in all, for compatability, an NTFS would be a better choice, > >since FreeBSD is currently very Intel specific anyway. > > I think I'd rather we went with JFS rather than NTFS, just on general principle. :) Considering that on a PC I'm more likely to mount a NTFS partition than a JFS partition I'd rather see a FreeBSD NTFS -- and one that kicks NT's NTFS. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:02:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA02880 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itchy.mindspring.com (itchy.mindspring.com [204.180.128.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02875 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by itchy.mindspring.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA14293; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-168-121-39-4.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.39.4]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA20796; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:01:46 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961002050148.008cf4c8@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:01:48 -0400 To: Poul-Henning Kamp From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: Jason Thorpe , "Justin T. Gibbs" , James Graham , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:44 PM 10/1/96 +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >In message <199610011806.LAA02439@lestat.nas.nasa.gov>, Jason Thorpe writes: >>On Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:53:02 -0700 >> "Justin T. Gibbs" wrote: >> >> > Actually, I don't think it is. CCD should be relying on information stored >> > in a private area of the disk to determine what stripe sets what partitions > >I agree. > >>Just where do you propose to keep this information? >> >>(Hint: it's going to be machine-dependent.) > >not if done right. > >I know at least one VolMgr that will search the first X Mb of the disk looking >for a signature... Hmmm.... > >>When you say "open the partition", which partition are you opening? >> >>(Hint: if you're opening /dev/sd0a, then you have to put all kinds of >>crap to find the "ccd block" in the SCSI disk driver, and the IDE disk >>driver, and the Xylogics disk drivers, and...) > >Jason, you clearly havn't seen the light. I'll compose an email with >my design idea, and send it but it may not be until tomorrow that I >get to it. (if you give a lengthy explanation, could you forward it my way? Please?) Question: Why do block devices know about partitioning? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a "disk" driver, that has a list of disks and disk drivers attached to it? This way the user doesn't have to deal with sd0 vs wd0 vs xy0 vs whatever, they work with /dev/disk0a. The "disk" driver would have an ioctl that passed up the ASCII id string returned by disks, or by the disk driver itself (or some other identifier, you decide). The "disk" driver could deal with partitions in it's own manner. What am I missing here? >CCD is way to narrowminded. Monkeywrench! How can you have an LFS root partition (never mind the LVM stuff), and still be able to boot on, say, a Sun3? I mean, doesn't the boot prom have to be able to read the file system to load the loader program? Where are you going to stuff boot.sun3? Or a DECstation kernel? This could get ugly. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore, Comp. Sci. \ kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM "Corrected!" -- Old Amiga tips file \ kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM Visit the House of Retrocomputing: / Perm. Email: XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ / kevinneal@bix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:02:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA02923 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA02917; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:02:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199610020502.WAA02917@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jkh Subject: Re: XDrawString Cc: hackers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can't test it against XFree86 as I have a Matrox. Sure you can. The latest beta supports the Matrox. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:06:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA03291 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from answerman.mindspring.com (answerman.mindspring.com [204.180.128.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03286 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by answerman.mindspring.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA29635; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-168-121-39-4.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.39.4]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA21364; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:06:40 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961002050641.008b1050@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:06:41 -0400 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: Jason Thorpe , Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:12 PM 10/1/96 -0700, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: >>Just where do you propose to keep this information? >> >>(Hint: it's going to be machine-dependent.) > >VxFS runs on many different different platforms and uses this approach, but >I would expect a per OS not per machine type solution. I haven't given it >a tremendous amount of thought, but I assumed that it would be part of the >BSD disklabel. Know of a good online source of info on VxFS? Perhaps a good book that might show up in a university library? >>How does the way the ccd is configured not allow you to move your >>disks around (to different controllers, etc.)? >> >>(Hint: it doesn't.) > >Last time I looked at CCD, it did. What I mean by moving my disks around >is handling situations like, "Gee, I'm not getting enough bandwidth using >only one controller here. I think I'll buy a second one and split up my >disks." After turning off the machine, sticking in the new controller and >messing with some cables, I should be able to simply power on the system >and have everything work transparently. The coolest would be the kernel sysloging messages like "spare bandwidth on controller Y, suggest moving data over there off of controller X." Or even for disks. Or even for virtual partitions. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore, Comp. Sci. \ kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM "Corrected!" -- Old Amiga tips file \ kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM Visit the House of Retrocomputing: / Perm. Email: XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ / kevinneal@bix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:15:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA03805 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu (UX2.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.198.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03797 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu id aa00131; 2 Oct 96 1:15 EDT To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Jason Thorpe , "Justin T. Gibbs" , James Graham , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:01:48 EDT." <1.5.4.32.19961002050148.008cf4c8@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:14:55 -0400 Message-ID: <122.844233295@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu> From: Chris G Demetriou Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Monkeywrench! How can you have an LFS root partition (never mind the LVM > stuff), and still be able to boot on, say, a Sun3? I mean, doesn't the > boot prom have to be able to read the file system to load the loader > program? Where are you going to stuff boot.sun3? Or a DECstation kernel? > This could get ugly. Not on sane (at least in this respect 8-) architectures. Sane architectures typically read the first N blocks off the disk, or read something in a well-known format from the first block of the disk that indicates what other blocks to read. Firmware which incorporates file system knowledge is Evil, and i'm not aware of any current workstation-class hardware that ships with firmware which attempts to (directly) understand file systems. (I could be wrong, since i'm not intimately familiar with too many machines' boot processes, but i think that, at least in this respect, the overall brokenness of new systems is decreasing.) Yes, on a sun3 or DECstation, you're going to lose, but that's not that big a deal, at least to me. chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:18:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA04297 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu (UX2.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.198.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04286 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu id aa00167; 2 Oct 96 1:18 EDT To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Jason Thorpe , Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:06:41 EDT." <1.5.4.32.19961002050641.008b1050@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:18:38 -0400 Message-ID: <161.844233518@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu> From: Chris G Demetriou Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The coolest would be the kernel sysloging messages like "spare bandwidth > on controller Y, suggest moving data over there off of controller X." > Or even for disks. Or even for virtual partitions. Uh, the state of the art in "cool" is actually beyond that already. It's now into the realm of "ahh, i see you're use of this data is different than your use of this other data, so i'm going to store them differently." See HP's AutoRaid work. (For even more bizarre "cool," see AFRAID... "ahh, i see you want more performance and less reliability for this data! i will dynamically adjust!") chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:26:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA05101 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itchy.mindspring.com (itchy.mindspring.com [204.180.128.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05094 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by itchy.mindspring.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA15545; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-168-121-39-4.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.39.4]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA23270; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:26:35 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961002052637.008e9d0c@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:26:37 -0400 To: buhrow@cats.ucsc.edu (Brian Buhrow) From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Jason Thorpe , Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:06 PM 10/1/96 -0700, Brian Buhrow wrote: > From my perspective as an administrator of systems which use both types >of virtual disk drivers, I have to say that I like the NetBSD way of >keeping the configuration file in a flat text file much better. Veritos is >powerful, but it doesn't auto-recover from failed disks, and it is very >hard to manage its configuration information precisely because it is stored >on distributed areas of disks which are unreachable by mere mortals living >on FFS filesystems. How about storing the data in a private section of the disk, and being able to export the data into a flat file, human readable? Then also being able to parse the output file and restore it onto the disk? I mean, the mount command on some (all?) systems can generate an fstab. Why not the virtual disk device? -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore, Comp. Sci. \ kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM "Corrected!" -- Old Amiga tips file \ kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM Visit the House of Retrocomputing: / Perm. Email: XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ / kevinneal@bix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:31:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA05756 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itchy.mindspring.com (itchy.mindspring.com [204.180.128.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05748 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by itchy.mindspring.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA15856; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-168-121-39-4.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.39.4]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA23649; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:31:46 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961002053147.008b4ec0@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:31:47 -0400 To: Terry Lambert From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:09 PM 10/1/96 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> > JFS or VXFS-like, metadata logging for increased robustness and faster >> > reboots without the need for fsck in regular operation would also be nice. >> >> It is called LFS and it is supposed to be more usable in lite2... LFS + LVM >> would be very nice to have. > >Journalling and logging are two distinctly different technologies. How so? (gets out pen and paper....) Which is better (when?)? -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore, Comp. Sci. \ kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM "Corrected!" -- Old Amiga tips file \ kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM Visit the House of Retrocomputing: / Perm. Email: XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ / kevinneal@bix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:36:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA06362 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (guest1.plaza.hitachi-sk.co.jp [202.32.87.91]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA06342; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00439; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:38:53 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:38:53 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199610020538.OAA00439@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org Subject: PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.19] 1995-07/21(Fri) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available. The URL is "ftp://ryukyu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD/PAO/PAO-961002.tar.gz". Most of the changes are about APM driver. Now shutdown -x halts the machine and turns off the power supply, etc.... We updated Laptop survey and X11 survey, and some bugs in PC-card dirver is fixed. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp hosokawa@jp.FreeBSD.org WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:37:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA06520 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aeffle.Stanford.EDU (sequence.Stanford.EDU [171.65.76.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA06513 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hlew@localhost) by aeffle.Stanford.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA21494; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:37:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:37:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: cpu identification Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know what files in the kernal source are responsible for cpu identification? I believe they are supposed to be in /usr/src/sys/i386/isa or include right? I have the source for properly identifying Cyrix cpus up to the 6x86 and I think the source for the AMD K5 is on AMD's WWW site... The NexGen source is still on AMD's web site I believe. Or has someone already done all that yet? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:45:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA07236 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from answerman.mindspring.com (answerman.mindspring.com [204.180.128.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07226 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by answerman.mindspring.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01236; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-168-121-39-4.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.39.4]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA24779; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:44:39 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961002054454.008cfba4@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:44:54 -0400 To: Chris G Demetriou From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Jason Thorpe , Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:18 AM 10/2/96 -0400, Chris G Demetriou wrote: >> The coolest would be the kernel sysloging messages like "spare bandwidth >> on controller Y, suggest moving data over there off of controller X." >> Or even for disks. Or even for virtual partitions. > >Uh, the state of the art in "cool" is actually beyond that already. > >It's now into the realm of "ahh, i see you're use of this data is >different than your use of this other data, so i'm going to store them >differently." See HP's AutoRaid work. (For even more bizarre "cool," >see AFRAID... "ahh, i see you want more performance and less >reliability for this data! i will dynamically adjust!") I'm hoping to avoid somebody saying "But I don't WANT it to rearrange my data, and put it on different disks automatically!". Of course, you could still cut off that feature. In that event, it could still give you hints. Perhaps we are saying slightly different things. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore, Comp. Sci. \ kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM "Corrected!" -- Old Amiga tips file \ kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM Visit the House of Retrocomputing: / Perm. Email: XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ / kevinneal@bix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:45:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA07316 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07311 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.10]) by Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA24656; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:44:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199610020544.WAA24656@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> To: Chris G Demetriou cc: "Kevin P. Neal" , Poul-Henning Kamp , Jason Thorpe , "Justin T. Gibbs" , James Graham , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org, jonathan@DSG.Stanford.EDU Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:14:55 EDT." <122.844233295@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 22:44:43 -0700 From: Jonathan Stone Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <122.844233295@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu>Chris G Demetriou writes > >Sane architectures typically read the first N blocks off the disk, >or read something in a well-known format from the first block of the >disk that indicates what other blocks to read. >Yes, on a sun3 or DECstation, you're going to lose, but that's not >that big a deal, at least to me. Wrong, at least on DECstations. They're ``sane'' by your description; very like the TC alphas, in fact. The lossage on DECstations is that there's no good way to set anything in the PROM that indicates to the kernel which partition to use as root. We could always invent a syntax for encoding root partitions for kernels that prompt for a root partition. It's getting autoboot to DTTR, or specifying it to the PROM instead of a generic-style kernel, that's problematic. (The other lossage is that I haven't discovered a realiable, sufficiently low-pain installation procedure, but that's another story). From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 22:46:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA07383 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eterna.com.au (eterna.com.au [203.15.111.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07376 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eterna.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA18948; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:44:48 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199610020544.PAA18948@eterna.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: splode.eterna.com.au: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Jason Thorpe , Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org, buhrow@cats.ucsc.edu (Brian Buhrow) From: matthew green Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:26:37 -0400." <1.5.4.32.19961002052637.008e9d0c@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 15:44:14 +1000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i will note that ODS allows mirrored root filesystems. i don't remember anything about disallowing stripping or concatenating them, either, but they will ignore the disklabel/bootblock portion on disk. i like parts of ODS: it keeps state in dedicated partitions on the disk, a metadevice db "replica". you create several of these partitions on your disks and it uses them to keep state -- each one is independant or the others. i also like the model of ODS (as under solaris 2): - a metadevice acts like a normal disk partition - a metadevice can be composed of any number of real partitions or metadevices, either concatenated or striped, or mirrored. you create a mirrored stripe by creating two (or three -- ODS has an, IMO, stpuid limit) stripes and then mirroring these two metadevices. recent ODS versions include raid5 support, file system extensions, etc. i'm fairly conversant in ODS if anyone has other questions. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 23:06:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA08818 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08813 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA20190; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:06:11 -0700 (PDT) To: Josh MacDonald cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XDrawString In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:29:36 PDT." <199610020429.VAA02072@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 23:06:11 -0700 Message-ID: <20188.844236371@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Wait, you're saying that you're running the same server as I am. Did > you not experience any troubles? (I have AcceleratedX 1.3). No troubles at all - it runs exactly as you said it does under Linux and Ultrix. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 1 23:08:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA09147 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09140; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA20208; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:08:31 -0700 (PDT) To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: jkh@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: XDrawString In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Oct 1996 22:02:23 PDT." <199610020502.WAA02917@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 23:08:31 -0700 Message-ID: <20205.844236511@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Can't test it against XFree86 as I have a Matrox. > > Sure you can. The latest beta supports the Matrox. Huh. News to me, but then I'm not on any of the BETA lists anymore.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 00:02:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA13389 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA13382 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0v8LJn-000I5VC; Wed, 2 Oct 96 08:02 MET Received: by ernie.kts.org (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0v8KbU-000009C; Wed, 2 Oct 96 08:16 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: isdn code To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:16:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Oct 2, 96 09:14:58 am Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, First of all, i'm talking about bisdn, not about the stuff which is currently in the sourcetree, which is in my opinion really unsupported. The stuff which is in the sourcetree is ii-0.1 which has been replaced by its authors by ii-0.2. bisdn has its origins in ii-0.2, but it is much more powerful and does actually work. Michael Hancock wrote: > Or you can look at it as not strongly supporting a broader audience. For > example, most of the major vendors support multiple international > interfaces. It's should just be a configuration option, select > > ATT, NT, NTT, EuroISDN, etc. > > The communications gurus tell me that it really isn't that difficult to > provide support the for various interfaces. It would be very very nice, if bisdn could support ATT, NT and NTT besides DSS1 (EuroISDN) and 1TR6 which it currently supports, but _someone_ with access to communications equipment talking that protocol dialects has to actually implement support for that. It cannot be done in Europe without ISDN simulators noone of us has access to. As much as i would like to do it. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@kts.org Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 00:41:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA17321 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA17315 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id RAA28429; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:31:49 +1000 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:31:49 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610020731.RAA28429@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >Subject: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. This should probably be To: freebsd-current :-). >I've written a device driver for an ISA card that has the potential of >generating interrupts as fast as the machine is able to handle them. >It is not a common situation, but it may happens for short periods >at a time (e.g. 0.3 seconds). > >One problem though, is that this may cause a high interrupt latency >(0.3 seconds), with the net effect that one RTC interrupt is >lost. Profiling and CPU time accountings stops working. Perhaps it should run at spl < splsoftclock. (Loss of ordinary clock interrupts is worse than loss of RTC interrupts, so perhaps it should also run at spl < splclock. This is now automatic because splsoftclock < splclock, but splsoftclock should probably be changed so that it is >= splclock.) >In an attempt to avoid losing an RTC interrupt, I've recently added >some code to the interrupt handler in the device driver to check for a >pending timer interrupt and a repeatedly pending RTC interrupt. If >such an interrupt is pending, the restart of the device is performed >in a timeout routine called by softclock instead of in the interrupt >handler, causing all pending hardware interrupts to be processed. It would be better to avoid using timeouts. The timeout may be further delayed, and many real interrupts may occur before it is called. This can probably be fixed by adding another software interrupt handler like the sio one but running at splhigh(). >This seems to work, and prohibit the loss of RTC interrupts, but >I found no good method of checking for pending/blocked interrupts: > > ((imen & 1) || (inb(IO_ICU1) & 1)) > >and > > ((imen & 256) || (inb(IO_ICU2) & 1)) > >are not what I would consider easily readable code to check for >pending IRQ0 and IRQ8. It would be more correct to use `ipending' instead of `imen'. `ipending' gives pending interrupts that the system already knows about. `imen' is in implementation detail. However, I think there are more races for `ipending' (some btrl's of it in icu.s are done with interrupts enabled). It may be unnecesssary to check ipending or imen, since pending interrupts will be restarted automatically and you don't want to restart them twice. OTOH, it may be necessary to change `ipending' to get multiple restarts to work right. Checking it is the least of your problems. >A macro as e.g.: > >#define INTRBLOCKED(i) ((imen & (1<<(i))) || (inb((i)>=8?IO_ICU2:IO_ICU1)&(1<<((i)&7)))) > >can cause the code to be more readable, but may also add some overhead >unless the compiler manages to reduce it to the variants shown earlier. gcc will optimize this nicely provided `i' is constant. >Maybe a better way is to rewrite the fastintr handler, to enable the Do you really need to use a fastintr handler? The fastness of a fastintr handler isn't very important, at least on current hardware. The important thing is to take complete control of the machine so that timing constraints can be satisfied. This currently only works right if there is only one fairly short fastintr handler or several very short ones. The sum of the interrupt latencies must be <= the minimum permissible latency. The minimum permissible latency is 87us if there is an 8250 UART running at 115200 bps, 2*87us if there is a 16550 UART running at 115200 bps (since the fifo size less the fifo trigger level is 2). The constraints for clock latencies are much weaker (the normal worst case is 2* 1000000/1024 us for the RTC in profiling mode). >ICUs before calling the interrupt handler? Then the interrupt handler >could enable interrupts, disable interrupts, and just check the imen >variable instead of polling the interrupt controller. Then a macro for Enabling interrupts would defeat the point of it being a fastintr handler. Other interrupts could occur and take a long time to handle. However, clock and other fastintr interrupts might not take too long. >the check would be trivial, e.g.: > >#define INTRBLOCKED(i) (imen & (1<<(i))) > >I cannot immediately see any reasons not to reenable the ICUs before >calling the interrupt handler from the fast interrupt vector code in >vector.s, since interrupts are disabled by default when the interrupt >handler is called. Yes, this makes no difference. Also, the ICUs get reenabled immediately if the AUTO_EOI_* options are used. The problems start with temporarily reemabling interrupts in a fastintr handler. Another problem is that here's nothing to stop infinite nesting of the fastintr handler. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 00:52:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA18051 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccs.sogang.ac.kr (ccs.sogang.ac.kr [163.239.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA18046 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oslab.sogang.ac.kr by ccs.sogang.ac.kr (8.8.0/Sogang) id QAA11263; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:47:07 +0900 (KST) Received: by oslab.sogang.ac.kr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25227; Wed, 2 Oct 96 04:32:56 KST Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 04:32:56 KST From: dude@oslab.sogang.ac.kr (Hong Seungwook) Message-Id: <9610011932.AA25227@oslab.sogang.ac.kr> Subject: [?] kernel hackers guide Apparently-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've tried to find the freebsd kernel hackers guide like linux kernel hackers guide. Did anybody know about freebsd kernel hackers guide ? The faq said there no freebsd kernel hackers guide in the world but I think there should be exist in the world or who are in progressing. Please, tell me where can I find it. :< Oct 2nd, 1996 from Seungwook, Hong From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 01:22:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA20087 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA20072 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA01315; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:21:30 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA03078; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:21:29 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id KAA21455; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:20:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610020820.KAA21455@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cpu identification To: hlew@sequence.Stanford.EDU (Howard Lew) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:20:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Howard Lew at "Oct 1, 96 10:37:14 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Howard Lew wrote: > > Does anyone know what files in the kernal source are responsible for cpu > identification? I believe they are supposed to be in > /usr/src/sys/i386/isa or include right? No, /sys/i386/i386. Used to be in locore.s, it's now in identcpu.c. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 01:48:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA21581 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21555 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610020848.BAA21555@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA033806025; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:47:05 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:47:05 +1000 (EST) Cc: michaelh@cet.co.jp, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610020205.TAA03025@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 1, 96 07:05:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said: > > > > According to Michael Hancock: [...] > > VxFS isn't dog slow. > > VxFS and FFS are within 5% of the same speed on UnixWare, assuming you > set your default block size for FFS to 8k (it defaults to 4k, apparently > so that VXFS would look good). Which way the 5% goes depends on the > operations. If you have ever worked on the VXFS source code (I did > at USL), you will already know that it has piece of FFS in it; the > directory entry management code is almost pure FFS, for instance. [...] Hmmm, well, I'll see how fast HP's VxFS is during the next week or so... testing out a RAID5 Fast-Wide Differential SCSI unit at work under 10.01. Testing today was rather disappointing: fscat -F vxfs only came in at 4MB/s across a 4GB partition. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 01:49:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA21706 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21701 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA08981; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:49:23 -0700 (PDT) To: hasty@netcom.com cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Matrox support in XFree86 3.1.2 BETA Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:49:23 -0700 Message-ID: <8979.844246163@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Erm.. Which BETA were you talking about when you said they had Matrox support in testing already? I can't find reference to it anywhere in the last BETA release on ftp.XFree86.org (3.1.2G). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 01:53:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA21976 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21971 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07761; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610020853.BAA07761@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hasty@netcom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Matrox support in XFree86 3.1.2 BETA In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:49:23 PDT." <8979.844246163@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:53:43 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, all I know is that there is an XFree86 effort to support the Matrox display adapters. As to whether there is a beta out with Matrox support I don't know. Amancio >From The Desk Of "Jordan K. Hubbard" : > Erm.. > > Which BETA were you talking about when you said they had Matrox > support in testing already? I can't find reference to it anywhere in > the last BETA release on ftp.XFree86.org (3.1.2G). > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 01:54:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA22016 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA21964 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 01:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA02401; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:51:16 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA03343; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:51:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id KAA21557; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:25:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610020825.KAA21557@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [?] kernel hackers guide To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:25:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dude@oslab.sogang.ac.kr (Hong Seungwook) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9610011932.AA25227@oslab.sogang.ac.kr> from Hong Seungwook at "Oct 2, 96 04:32:56 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Hong Seungwook wrote: > I've tried to find the freebsd kernel hackers guide like What would you expect from it? (Btw., your mail had terrible address headers. Please send them out with a correct `To' header, this will make replying easier.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 02:09:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA22927 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA22920 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isbalham (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id CAA25484 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id KAA22628; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:05:32 +0100 Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:43:15 +0100 X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:43:42 +0100 To: Josh MacDonald From: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Subject: Re: XDrawString Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 7:33 pm 1/10/96, Josh MacDonald wrote: >[...] >My results showed that XDrawString on a 2048 character string, >where only 50 or so are on-screen takes much longer than the same >call with only the visible length supplied. This is a well-known problem. When called to investigate a dog-slow X app one of the first things I check for is drawing to points far off-screen. >This strikes me as a >rather stupid way to do things, but thats just an opinion. You are not alone in this opinion :-) Basically there's some nasty pathology in a clipping algorithm somewhere in there. >The >problem arises when I draw strings longer than a certain length, >the text actually wraps around and starts drawing over the previous >text. I run Xaccell, so then I tried the same application with an >XFree86 server, and the string does not draw at all. On either the >DEC Ultrix server or Linux Xaccell server I ran it on both displayed >the string without wrapping. So I'm curious whats going on. Here's >the application. On the XF86 server it doesn't draw the string, on >the Xaccell server it wraps the string around, and on Linux and Ultrix >it works "correctly". Is the meaning of such a call well defined? If one end of the long string is far off screen then you will see pathological (and quite possibly non-portable) behaviour. It's a pain in the ass, but the only cure I know of is not to draw objects with one end on screen and the other end far off-screen. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 03:04:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA25762 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA25726 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA07391; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:03:47 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199610021003.UAA07391@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: XDrawString To: jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU (Josh MacDonald) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:03:47 +1000 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199610020429.VAA02072@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> from "Josh MacDonald" at Oct 1, 96 09:29:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > text. I run Xaccell, so then I tried the same application with an >> > XFree86 server, and the string does not draw at all. On either the >> > DEC Ultrix server or Linux Xaccell server I ran it on both displayed >> > the string without wrapping. So I'm curious whats going on. Here's >> >> As it does on the FreeBSD version of AcceleratedX (1.3) I just tested >> it with. Can't test it against XFree86 as I have a Matrox. > >Wait, you're saying that you're running the same server as I am. Did >you not experience any troubles? (I have AcceleratedX 1.3). You haven't given much detail of what you're trying it on (hardware, server, depth, etc). I just tried it on an XFree86 3.1.2 Mach32 at 8bpp, and I don't see anything. If I change the foreground and background colours in the gc to: xgcv.foreground = WhitePixel(display, DefaultScreen (display)); xgcv.background = BlackPixel(display, DefaultScreen (display)); Then, it works fine. XDrawString only draws in the forground colour anyway, so maybe you were drawing black on black, which could easily be the case with the foreground pixel value set to 0xffff (truncated to 0xff) on a 8bpp pseudocolor visual? Have you tried XDrawImageString? That gives black characters on a white background with your foreground/background values when I try it. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 03:09:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA26076 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA26068 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA07413; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:09:25 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199610021009.UAA07413@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: Matrox support in XFree86 3.1.2 BETA To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:09:25 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <8979.844246163@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 2, 96 01:49:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Which BETA were you talking about when you said they had Matrox >support in testing already? I can't find reference to it anywhere in >the last BETA release on ftp.XFree86.org (3.1.2G). There is *basic* Matrox Millennium support in an un-released alpha version, not in any publicly available beta. This will be included in our 3.2 release (which is due out in about a month or so), and marked as *beta* or pre-beta quality. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 03:11:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA26232 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA26226 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA09946; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (proff@localhost) by suburbia.net (8.7.4/Proff-950810) id UAA03625; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:11:06 +1000 From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199610021011.UAA03625@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: contrib/src To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:11:05 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Oct 1, 96 11:52:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I noticed that large parts of FreeBSD are making their way into > contrib/src, including stuff I would not have thought really qualified as > contributed. As an example, bin/cat is now located in > /usr/src/contrib/src/bin/cat. Has the definition of contributed software Seems like a good way to start the GUU ;) -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ |Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | |proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | |proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | 0619737CCC143F6DEA73E27378933690 | +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 04:00:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA28665 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 04:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail13.digital.com (mail13.digital.com [192.208.46.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA28654 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 04:00:26 -0700 (PDT) From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.frt.dec.com by mail13.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.2/1.0/WV) id GAA27693; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 06:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/14Nov95-0232PM) id AA04801; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:56:31 +0100 Message-Id: <9610021056.AA04801@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message from hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) of Tue, 01 Oct 96 19:15:54 +0200. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: isdn code Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 12:56:30 +0200 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hm@kts.org writes: > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > So what is going to happen , if a hacker lets say in California > > ( I know a remote possibility) gets hold of lets say the programming > > info for lets say the intel isdn card? > > Lets say this hacker has access to a photocopier and lets say there are > such things like envelopes and stamps available in - lets say California .. > and, let's say, sends a card along with the docs. :) --- Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de (play) gj@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 04:15:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA29279 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 04:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chacal.noc.demon.net (chacal.noc.demon.net [193.195.224.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA29269 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 04:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by chacal.noc.demon.net with local (Exim 0.42 #3) id E0v8PF4-0005Nt-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:13:30 +0100 From: jrg@demon.net (James R Grinter) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:13:29 +0000 In-Reply-To: <199610020544.PAA18948@eterna.com.au> "Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest?" (Oct 2, 8:09) X-Subliminal: vitae summa brevis spem nos, vetat incohare longam Organization: Demon Internet, Network Operations Centre X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: matthew green Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [large cc lists trimmed, i think everyone must be on one of the two lists] On Wed 2 Oct, 1996, matthew green wrote: >i also like the model of ODS (as under solaris 2): > - a metadevice acts like a normal disk partition > - a metadevice can be composed of any number of real partitions > or metadevices, either concatenated or striped, or mirrored. I (having been playing with IRIX 6.2 a lot recently) like IRIX's XFS/XLV setup. It's pretty similar to Sun's ODS/SDS, but you don't have to change md.conf files and reinit the metadevice when you move disks around controllers and change their ids. At boot time, an 'assemble' operation checks all disks on the system, and finds details of which logical volume they belong to, if any. (Someone's already said that they think it useful to be able to easily reconfigure your disks, and I concur - when you're dealing with large numbers of disks and large numbers of controllers you really don't want to have to be writing down numbers on pieces of paper.) Each logical volume has a name which is used when referring to the logical volume device (/dev/{r,}dsk/xlv/volumename), and consists of log, data, and real-time data sub-volumes. Each sub-volume consists of a number of volume elements (each being a disk partition), which can be concatenated or striped together. A sub-volume can contain up to 4 plexes (SGI's term for mirrors), each being up to 128 volume elements. Of course, SGI have the advantage of not having tried to build the system around UFS/FFS, so you grow the filesystem whilst it is mounted (the instructions specifically say you *must* mount before growing!), and it's far better in crash situations. for some pointers to XFS/XLV concepts. -- jrg. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 05:19:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA02043 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 05:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA02036 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 05:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610021219.FAA02036@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA082068738; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:58 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: jrg@demon.net (James R Grinter) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:58 +1000 (EST) Cc: mrg@eterna.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: from "James R Grinter" at Oct 2, 96 12:13:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from James R Grinter, sie said: > > [large cc lists trimmed, i think everyone must be on one of the two > lists] > > On Wed 2 Oct, 1996, matthew green wrote: > >i also like the model of ODS (as under solaris 2): > > - a metadevice acts like a normal disk partition > > - a metadevice can be composed of any number of real partitions > > or metadevices, either concatenated or striped, or mirrored. > [...] > Each logical volume has a name which is used when referring to the > logical volume device (/dev/{r,}dsk/xlv/volumename), and consists > of log, data, and real-time data sub-volumes. Each sub-volume > consists of a number of volume elements (each being a disk partition), > which can be concatenated or striped together. A sub-volume can > contain up to 4 plexes (SGI's term for mirrors), each being up to > 128 volume elements. Hmmm, having used LVM, seen ccd docs, to me, it should be something like this: +----------------------------------+ | FFS/UFS/NTFS/LFS/VXFS/EXT2/... | +------------------+---------+-----+ | | LVM | | | disks +---+-----+ CCD | | | | | hd* sd* xd* +-----------+ | | +----------------------------------+ That is, a file system can exist on a normal disk, a meta disk or a logical disk. An LV can be an arbitary size, with an entire `disk' allocated to the VG (Volume group), there are no predined LV boundaries, except what is and isn't allocated (currently) to a LV. A CCD is less flexible and is either a collection of disks or disk partitions and is fixed in size. How the device names are organised should be immaterial, IMHO. (Well, except if you have FreeBSD 2.2 :-) Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 06:30:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA06674 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 06:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eterna.com.au (eterna.com.au [203.15.111.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA06635 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 06:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eterna.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA26262; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:29:56 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199610021329.XAA26262@eterna.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: splode.eterna.com.au: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org, jrg@demon.net (James R Grinter) From: matthew green Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 22:18:58 +1000." <19961002122045.10578.qmail@mail.NetBSD.ORG> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 23:29:18 +1000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk +----------------------------------+ | FFS/UFS/NTFS/LFS/VXFS/EXT2/... | +------------------+---------+-----+ | | LVM | | | disks +---+-----+ CCD | | | | | hd* sd* xd* +-----------+ | | +----------------------------------+ i like this. what we need to do is have ccd and lvm be layers, with the disks being the bottom, the ccd being next, lvm (or what ever, i don't like that name :-) and then the file systems, with the ccd or lvm or filesystems. oh, and i'd actually add this layer as well: +---------------------------------------------+ | raw devices | +---------------------------------------+ r | | FFS/UFS/NTFS/LFS/VXFS/EXT2/... | a | +-----------------+----------+----------+ w | | | LVM | | | | disks +----+-----+ CCD | d | | | | e | | hd* sd* xd* +----------------+ v | | | s | +---------------------------------------+ | | FFS/UFS/NTFS/LFS/VXFS/EXT2/... | | +------------------+---------+----------------+ that is, raw devices can be at any layer as well. you may want to get securelevel in on this of course, but the access should be allowed. How the device names are organised should be immaterial, IMHO. just as long as it is sane. :-) (Well, except if you have FreeBSD 2.2 :-) tell us netbsd people more ..? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 06:57:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA09033 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 06:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA09025 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 06:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA05107; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:55:28 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199610021355.IAA05107@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: mrg@eterna.com.au (matthew green) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:55:28 -0500 (CDT) Cc: kpneal@pobox.com, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, phk@critter.tfs.com, greywolf@siva.captech.com, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org, buhrow@cats.ucsc.edu In-Reply-To: <199610020544.PAA18948@eterna.com.au> from "matthew green" at Oct 2, 96 03:44:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > i like parts of ODS: it keeps state in dedicated partitions on the > disk, a metadevice db "replica". you create several of these partitions > on your disks and it uses them to keep state -- each one is independant > or the others. This works pretty well. > i also like the model of ODS (as under solaris 2): > - a metadevice acts like a normal disk partition > - a metadevice can be composed of any number of real partitions > or metadevices, either concatenated or striped, or mirrored. > > you create a mirrored stripe by creating two (or three -- ODS has an, > IMO, stpuid limit) stripes and then mirroring these two metadevices. > > recent ODS versions include raid5 support, file system extensions, etc. > > i'm fairly conversant in ODS if anyone has other questions. ODS has (IMHO) a disadvantage... each metadevice is only allowed to be a partition. CCD allows you to stick a disklabel on its "metadevice" and you can have partition_s_. This is maybe marginally useful, but I happen to like it. It allows me to build an I/O "policy" where I stripe two drives together and simply consider the aggregate to be a faster drive... and then I partition it up. It requires less complexity in ccd.conf. *shrug* But.. if I could have something with all the features of ODS under *BSD.. and none of the slowdowns... I would in a minute. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:02:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA09285 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA09280 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.22]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24442; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:01:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01122; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:01:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: maryann.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:01:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Julian Assange cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: contrib/src In-Reply-To: <199610021011.UAA03625@suburbia.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Julian Assange wrote: > > > > I noticed that large parts of FreeBSD are making their way into > > contrib/src, including stuff I would not have thought really qualified as > > contributed. As an example, bin/cat is now located in > > /usr/src/contrib/src/bin/cat. Has the definition of contributed software > > Seems like a good way to start the GUU ;) GUU? This can't be Grand Unified Unix? !! No!!!! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:04:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA09465 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA09458; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03229; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:04:23 +0200 (MET DST) To: matthew green cc: Darren Reed , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org, jrg@demon.net (James R Grinter), thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 23:29:18 +1000." <199610021329.XAA26262@eterna.com.au> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:04:23 +0200 Message-ID: <3227.844265063@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610021329.XAA26262@eterna.com.au>, matthew green writes: Well how about this: Filesystems and other users of block devices and their associated (simulated) character devices. ------------------------------------------------- Geometry layer. ------------------------------------------------- actual bdev drivers In the geometry layer, you can knit any setup you want: The stuff most people do now: top top top top top | | | | | +---------------------- top top BSD | | | ---------- FDISK | bdev Or how about just mirroring: top top top top | | | | ---------------- BSD | mirror | | bdev bdev Or some striping ? top top top top | | | | ---------------- BSD | stripe | | bdev bdev You get the idea ? For autoconfiguring I imagined all the various modules ordered according to the "canonical level" they work on: 3: stripe, mirror, raid5 2: BSD 1: BAD144 0: FDISK When we configure a bdev we first offer it to all the level "0" modules in turn, if one of them recognizes something on the disk it likes it configures itself on it. If nothing in level "0", then we try level "1" and so on. If nobody recognizes it, we assume that that's it and leave it at that. (devices that take several lower devices, must wait till they find all their children until they can configure themselves upwards. (This bit could even be done in user-land if various corners are cut.) If you want mirroring: go for it. If you want lvm a'la AIX: hey It's just another module. If you want something else: same thing... All the devices you see in the schemas above will be present in /dev, but once you open one of them as a bdev, anything above that level will not be openable as a bdev. This allows you to fsck the copies of a mirror separately and stuff like that. You want to be able to mount a disk that came from another machine ? ok, write a module and tie it in... Now, >that< would be general setup. This is the idea that makes me call CCD "a hack". Poul-Henning PS: It is obvious that your boot facility must be able to find your kernel, but that is another issue I think, it should be a reason to cripple the geometry management. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:09:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA09755 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.warman.org.pl [148.81.160.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA09742 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA24350; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:16:46 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:16:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: timed vs. NTP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I just stumbled across a certain problem: I must use a kind of NTP between a few FBSD machines (one of them has horribly unstable clock :-( So I thought the timed would be good for this. But it seems the timed works only on the same LAN, and my machines are connected through Internet (several routers between). Well, I looked for a port of NTP daemon in /ports, but there is none. Could someone suggest me a way to solve this (I'm prepared even to some hacking of timed code, if need be...)? TIA Andy. +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Andrzej Bialecki _) _) _)_) _)_)_) _) _) --------------------------------------- _)_) _) _) _) _)_) _)_) Research and Academic Network in Poland _) _)_) _)_)_)_) _) _) _) Bartycka 18, 00-716 Warsaw, Poland _) _) _) _) _)_)_) _) _) +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:17:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA10318 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA10313; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03377; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:16:39 +0200 (MET DST) To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timed vs. NTP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:16:45 +0200." Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:16:39 +0200 Message-ID: <3375.844265799@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message , Andr zej Bialecki writes: >Hi, > >I just stumbled across a certain problem: I must use a kind of NTP >between a few FBSD machines (one of them has horribly unstable clock :-( >So I thought the timed would be good for this. But it seems the timed >works only on the same LAN, and my machines are connected through >Internet (several routers between). >Well, I looked for a port of NTP daemon in /ports, but there is none. >Could someone suggest me a way to solve this (I'm prepared even to some >hacking of timed code, if need be...)? man xntpd ? :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:18:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA10405 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccs.sogang.ac.kr (ccs.sogang.ac.kr [163.239.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA10400; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr by ccs.sogang.ac.kr (8.8.0/Sogang) id XAA28649; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:14:01 +0900 (KST) Received: from localhost by cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05139; Wed, 2 Oct 96 23:17:04 KST Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:17:03 +0900 (KST) From: Heo Sung-Gwan X-Sender: heo@cslsun10 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: vnode and cluster read-ahead Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When a file is open serveral times simultaneously cluster read-ahead buffer cache using vnode seem to have some problems. As a process A reads a file F *sequentially* the fields(v_maxra, v_ralen, etc) of the vnode of F increases. As a result read-ahead of next cluster happens. But when a process B opens F and reads it the values of the fields are changed. So the process A's read-ahead is disturbed whenever process B is rescheduled. I think the fields for read-ahead must be in struct file rather than vnode. There exists one vnode for a file but a file may be open serveral times. What's your opinion, hackers? -- Heo Sung-Gwan Dept. of Computer Science, Sogang University, Seoul, Korea. E-mail: heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:39:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA11917 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.warman.org.pl [148.81.160.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA11907 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA24451; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:40:01 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:40:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: timed vs. NTP In-Reply-To: <3375.844265799@critter.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >Well, I looked for a port of NTP daemon in /ports, but there is none. > >Could someone suggest me a way to solve this (I'm prepared even to some > >hacking of timed code, if need be...)? > > man xntpd ? > > :-) Gee... What a solution! Thnx & sorry for not doing ``apropos''... Andy, +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Andrzej Bialecki _) _) _)_) _)_)_) _) _) --------------------------------------- _)_) _) _) _) _)_) _)_) Research and Academic Network in Poland _) _)_) _)_)_)_) _) _) _) Bartycka 18, 00-716 Warsaw, Poland _) _) _) _) _)_)_) _) _) +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:40:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA12113 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA12082; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA00980; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:39:43 -0500 (EST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199610021439.JAA00980@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead To: heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr (Heo Sung-Gwan) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:39:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Heo Sung-Gwan" at Oct 2, 96 11:17:03 pm Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > When a file is open serveral times simultaneously cluster read-ahead > buffer cache using vnode seem to have some problems. > You are right. > As a process A reads a file F *sequentially* the fields(v_maxra, v_ralen, etc) of the vnode of F increases. As a result read-ahead of next cluster happens. > But when a process B opens F and reads it the values of the fields are > changed. So the process A's read-ahead is disturbed whenever process B is > rescheduled. > > I think the fields for read-ahead must be in struct file rather than vnode. > There exists one vnode for a file but a file may be open serveral times. > That is closer to correct. I am not sure that the struct file is correct either, but I think that you are on the right track. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:42:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA12395 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ub4b.eunet.be (ub4b.eunet.be [192.92.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA12390 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.eurocontrol.be by ub4b.eunet.be (ub4b_08) id AA13864; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:41:26 +0200 Received: by gate.eurocontrol.be (1.37.109.18/16.2) id AA033100918; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:41:58 +0100 Received: from biscuit.eurocontrol.be(193.221.170.198) by gate.eurocontrol.be via smap (V1.3) id sma003308; Wed Oct 2 16:41:51 1996 Received: from dolphin.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be by biscuit.eurocontrol.be with ESMTP (1.37.109.18/16.2) id AA032010896; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:41:36 +0100 Received: from heron.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be by dolphin.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA236677275; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:41:15 +0200 To: Jason Thorpe Cc: James Graham , Poul-Henning Kamp , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:26:52 PDT." <199610010326.UAA21944@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:41:11 +0200 Message-Id: <2079.844267271@heron.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be> From: Jim Reid Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk James Graham wrote: >> # >What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us >> # >over CCD? >> # Architecture instead of hacks. >> Methinks I detect a hint of elitism in that statement. Indeed. It's not as if LVM is the epitome of stylish or elegant code anyway.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:51:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA12916 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA12896; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA07229; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610021452.HAA07229@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Heo Sung-Gwan cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 23:17:03 +0900." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 07:52:03 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >When a file is open serveral times simultaneously cluster read-ahead >buffer cache using vnode seem to have some problems. > >As a process A reads a file F *sequentially* the fields(v_maxra, v_ralen, etc) of the vnode of F increases. As a result read-ahead of next cluster happens. >But when a process B opens F and reads it the values of the fields are >changed. So the process A's read-ahead is disturbed whenever process B is >rescheduled. > >I think the fields for read-ahead must be in struct file rather than vnode. >There exists one vnode for a file but a file may be open serveral times. > >What's your opinion, hackers? First, this is a very rare situation that almost never occurs in practice. If the file was just read it will usually still be in the cache (assuming it's not too large), so all references will be satisfied out of the cache and the clustering policy won't matter. However, in the case of it not fitting in the cache, the system will not optimize for sequential reads because they are no longer entirely sequential...so I think the current algorithm is doing the right thing. The whole dynamic read-ahead mechanism is just an optimization in any case and is new with 4.4BSD. Even if we did want to change it, there really isn't a way to do what you're suggesting above - you don't have access to the file struct at the level that the clustering decision is made. You'd have to change the code to propagate clustering hints from the read/write system calls. Yuck. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:58:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA13299 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13292 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA22656; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:27:47 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199610021457.AAA22656@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: timed vs. NTP To: abial@korin.warman.org.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:27:46 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrzej Bialecki" at Oct 2, 96 04:16:45 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrzej Bialecki stands accused of saying: > > I just stumbled across a certain problem: I must use a kind of NTP > between a few FBSD machines (one of them has horribly unstable clock :-( > So I thought the timed would be good for this. But it seems the timed > works only on the same LAN, and my machines are connected through > Internet (several routers between). > Well, I looked for a port of NTP daemon in /ports, but there is none. > Could someone suggest me a way to solve this (I'm prepared even to some > hacking of timed code, if need be...)? If you just want reasonable precision, run 'ntpdate' out of cron. If you're madly keen, try 'man xntpd'. > Andy. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 07:58:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA13330 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13297; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 07:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03533; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:57:24 +0200 (MET DST) To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr (Heo Sung-Gwan), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 09:39:42 CDT." <199610021439.JAA00980@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:57:24 +0200 Message-ID: <3531.844268244@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610021439.JAA00980@dyson.iquest.net>, John Dyson writes: >> As a process A reads a file F *sequentially* the fields(v_maxra, v_ralen, et >c) of the vnode of F increases. As a result read-ahead of next cluster happens >. >> But when a process B opens F and reads it the values of the fields are >> changed. So the process A's read-ahead is disturbed whenever process B is >> rescheduled. >> >> I think the fields for read-ahead must be in struct file rather than vnode. >> There exists one vnode for a file but a file may be open serveral times. >> >That is closer to correct. I am not sure that the struct file is correct >either, but I think that you are on the right track. No, I don't agree. Process B will most likely find all it needs in the buffercache, and thus will not need read-ahead at all. How to implement this is not clear to me, but I think the best way would be to calculate the parameters and only if the extend the current read-ahead (v_maxra...) will they be employed. This would gracefully handle the case where process B overtakes process A in reading the file. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:02:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA13652 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA13639; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03574; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:01:40 +0200 (MET DST) To: Jim Reid cc: Jason Thorpe , James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:41:11 +0200." <2079.844267271@heron.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 17:01:40 +0200 Message-ID: <3572.844268500@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <2079.844267271@heron.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be>, Jim Reid writes: > James Graham wrote: > > >> # >What, aside from extendable partitions, would LVM give us > >> # >over CCD? > >> # Architecture instead of hacks. > >> Methinks I detect a hint of elitism in that statement. > >Indeed. It's not as if LVM is the epitome of stylish or elegant code >anyway.... Just to clarify: my comment (Architecture instead of hacks.) doesn't apply to any implementation of a LVM but to the general principle of one compared to CCD. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:10:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA14131 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from karl.tools.de (karl.TooLs.DE [192.76.135.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14123 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kurt.tools.de (kurt.TooLs.DE [192.76.135.70]) by karl.tools.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA14990; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:09:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by kurt.tools.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA23721; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:09:10 +0200 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:09:10 +0200 From: ws@kurt.tools.de (Wolfgang Solfrank) Message-Id: <199610021509.RAA23721@kurt.tools.de> To: Chris_G_Demetriou@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Firmware which incorporates file system knowledge is Evil, and i'm not > aware of any current workstation-class hardware that ships with > firmware which attempts to (directly) understand file systems. (I > could be wrong, since i'm not intimately familiar with too many > machines' boot processes, but i think that, at least in this respect, > the overall brokenness of new systems is decreasing.) While one might argue that it is not "workstation-class hardware", both the PReP (PowerPC Reference Platform) and the PPCP (PowerPC Platform), aka CHRP (Common Hardware Reference Platform) require that the firmware be able to load the bootcode from FAT filesystems or 9660 filesystems either directly from a disk or from an FDISK partition (including an extended one). In addition PPCP requires that the firmware be able to load the bootcode from a MacOS partition. Just to confuse things a bit :-). -- ws@TooLs.DE (Wolfgang Solfrank, TooLs GmbH) +49-228-985800 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:21:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA14934 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14904; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id KAA01060; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:20:48 -0500 (EST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199610021520.KAA01060@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:20:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3531.844268244@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Oct 2, 96 04:57:24 pm Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <199610021439.JAA00980@dyson.iquest.net>, John Dyson writes: > > >> As a process A reads a file F *sequentially* the fields(v_maxra, v_ralen, et > >c) of the vnode of F increases. As a result read-ahead of next cluster happens > >. > >> But when a process B opens F and reads it the values of the fields are > >> changed. So the process A's read-ahead is disturbed whenever process B is > >> rescheduled. > >> > >> I think the fields for read-ahead must be in struct file rather than vnode. > >> There exists one vnode for a file but a file may be open serveral times. > >> > >That is closer to correct. I am not sure that the struct file is correct > >either, but I think that you are on the right track. > > No, I don't agree. Process B will most likely find all it needs in the ^^^^^^ > buffercache, and thus will not need read-ahead at all. > I agree with the term "likely", but it is possible that two processes are not reading the entire file sequentially. Also, it is possible that the file size is much bigger than main memory, thereby busting the cache. Read-ahead is then the only performance improvement to be had. Nowadays, I think that drives actually have segmented read-ahead caches also. We don't though. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:23:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA15071 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA15047; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id KAA01068; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:22:16 -0500 (EST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199610021522.KAA01068@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead To: dg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:22:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610021452.HAA07229@root.com> from "David Greenman" at Oct 2, 96 07:52:03 am Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Even if we did want to change it, there really isn't a way to do what > you're suggesting above - you don't have access to the file struct at the > level that the clustering decision is made. You'd have to change the code > to propagate clustering hints from the read/write system calls. Yuck. > I actually thought about doing it (and may have discussed it with you, David), and I think that was my conclusion also. The existing interfaces don't convieniently support it. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:24:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA15200 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA15182 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id RAA14984; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:22:46 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199610021522.RAA14984@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: timed vs. NTP In-Reply-To: from Andrzej Bialecki at "Oct 2, 96 04:16:45 pm" To: abial@korin.warman.org.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:22:46 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > I just stumbled across a certain problem: I must use a kind of NTP > between a few FBSD machines (one of them has horribly unstable clock :-( > So I thought the timed would be good for this. But it seems the timed > works only on the same LAN, and my machines are connected through > Internet (several routers between). > Well, I looked for a port of NTP daemon in /ports, but there is none. > Could someone suggest me a way to solve this (I'm prepared even to some > hacking of timed code, if need be...)? > Xntpd is already part of FreeBSD. It should be able to do what you want. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:27:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA15433 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA15417; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA09508; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199610021526.JAA09508@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available In-Reply-To: <199610020538.OAA00439@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> References: <199610020538.OAA00439@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available. The URL is > "ftp://ryukyu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD/PAO/PAO-961002.tar.gz". > > Most of the changes are about APM driver. Now shutdown -x halts the > machine and turns off the power supply, etc.... Thanks for doing the cleanup on the APM driver. I had done this a couple months ago but never got around to committing it due to the changes we had in the PAO code and the FreeBSD code. I even had Poul review the changes, but he's been too busy to get back with me on them. I'll try and get at least some of these patches integrated into FreeBSD in the next week or so. Thanks! Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:43:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA16514 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wam1.netrunner.net ([205.164.225.248]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA16507 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from waveman@localhost) by wam1.netrunner.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08657 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:48:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Meurochrome Wavesurfer Message-Id: <199610021548.LAA08657@wam1.netrunner.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fdisk.... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk how would you fdisk/format an ide and mount it as a data drive? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:54:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA17125 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17117 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA05444; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:52:51 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199610021552.KAA05444@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: splash-page on bootup.. To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:52:51 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609302031.NAA03144@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Sep 30, 96 01:31:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Say it is possible to modify the BIOS boot time logo so how about > coming up with a Daemon logo and http://www.freebsd.org icon 8) Replace the EnergyStar (or whatever) logo maybe :-) "Coooooool" Now I wonder how to do it. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 08:57:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA17352 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17347 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA05469; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:56:19 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199610021556.KAA05469@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: timed vs. NTP To: abial@korin.warman.org.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:56:18 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Andrzej Bialecki" at Oct 2, 96 04:16:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, I looked for a port of NTP daemon in /ports, but there is none. > Could someone suggest me a way to solve this (I'm prepared even to some > hacking of timed code, if need be...)? Do NOT use timed unless you really really are hurting badly... xntpd is part of the base system and works a lot better. You can find a server on the Internet to be a client of, and then make all your "local" machines peers. If you are not connected, you can just make all your "local" machines peers. I think the documentation is helpful enough but if you have problems, drop a note and I'll draw up a sample config. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 09:28:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18769 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18754 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.10]) by Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA29671; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:27:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199610021627.JAA29671@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> To: Jason Thorpe cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , James Graham , "Kevin P. Neal" , hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org To: postmaster@myall.awadi.com.au, postmaster@awadi.com.au, postmaster@bunya.awadi.com.au, postmaster@x.physics.usyd.edu.au Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 09:27:34 -0700 From: Jonathan Stone Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm getting duplicate replies of most of the messages in this thread, after about a 15-hour to 24-hour delay. A set of receive-from: lines, from one message from Justin Gibbs, is included oelow. I don't have enough to say for sure, but the timestamps, and loop closure, seem to implicate either awadi.com.au or (the hopelessy misconfigured and unreachable) buyna.awadi. Someone, somewhere, please fix... Received: from mail.NetBSD.ORG (netbsd1.cygnus.com [140.174.6.10]) by Gregorio.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA08319 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:16:07 -0700 Received: (qmail-queue invoked by alias); 2 Oct 1996 13:31:37 -0000 Delivered-To: tech-kern-outgoing@NetBSD.ORG Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 605); 2 Oct 1996 13:31:37 -0000 Received: (qmail-queue invoked from smtpd); 2 Oct 1996 13:31:13 -0000 Received: from myall.awadi.com.au (150.207.2.65) by netbsd1.cygnus.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 1996 13:31:11 -0000 Received: from bunya.awadi ([150.207.2.63]) by myall.awadi.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA29360; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:58:31 +0930 (CST) Received: by bunya.awadi (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA02814; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:55:54 +0930 Received: from myall.awadi.com.au by bunya.awadi (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA24865; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:54:24 +0930 Received: from x.physics.usyd.edu.au (x.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.25]) by myall.awadi.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00921 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:54:22 +0930 (CST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by x.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA14254; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:22:30 +1000 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01510; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01247 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01227; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:53:02 -0700 (PDT) se messagesall <199610011611.JAA00870@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:53:02 -0700 [...] From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 09:44:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA20175 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20168 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA22070; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:42:05 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:42:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: Michael Hancock cc: Chris Csanady , Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NTFS (was Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Michael Hancock wrote: > On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Chris Csanady wrote: > > > >> NTFS also uses b-trees. Actually it uses a linear directory structure for > > >> small directories and b-trees for larger directories. This optimization > > >> reminds me of the direct inode/indirect inode scheme used in FFS. > > > > > >All in all, for compatability, an NTFS would be a better choice, > > >since FreeBSD is currently very Intel specific anyway. > > > > I think I'd rather we went with JFS rather than NTFS, just on general principle. :) > > Considering that on a PC I'm more likely to mount a NTFS partition than a > JFS partition I'd rather see a FreeBSD NTFS -- and one that kicks NT's > NTFS. I agree -- it may be a Microsoft thing, but then again we've already sold our souls to Intel (who isn't much better tha MS IMHO).. I dual boot between NT and FreeBSD on my two machines at home, and the same is true for about 15 machines where I work.. I think NTFS support in FreeBSD would be super -- at least the ability to mount NTFS partitions so we can move data between the two file systems (FFS and NTFS) just my 2 cents, -Mark ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch > > Regards, > > > Mike Hancock > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 10:05:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA21258 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siva (siva.captech.com [207.33.153.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA21252 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siva.captech.com by siva (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA04834; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:03:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199610021703.KAA04834@siva> To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech@openbsd.org, current-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:46:08 EDT." <1.5.4.32.19960930224608.0066dee0@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 10:03:12 -0700 From: James Graham Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Kevin P. Neal" sez: [much deleted] # # It's a rather long document, and it gets into much detail in some places. # # Neat stuff. Resizable partitions, easy mirroring of individual partitions, # reorganizing of partitions with ease. Stability in the event of hardware # going bad in run time. Imagine taking a system down, hooking up a drive, # then booting multi-user mode. In multi-user mode, add partitions and # filesystems as you like. Rearrange as you like. Minimized down time. # # "Help! My home directory partition is full!" # # "Hold on a sec.....How's that?" # # "Wow! Thanks!" Yes, this is cool, I agree. Now, one thing that none of the other filesystems deal with is how to *shrink* a partition, should it become necessary. I agree that it would be a cool thing to grow/shrink/move filesystems. Someone wrote that an extensible filesystem would be difficult because of the overhead of layout, as well as the problem of fragmentation. I note that fsck has a '-d' option for 'debug'; perhaps we should implement a -D option for "defragment". I know defragmenters can take a LOT of time, but if extensible filesystems can't avoid fragmentation easily, perhaps a FS_FRAGMENT flag should be set in the filesystem superblock, and fsck would pick it up and attempt to defrag the filesystem at the next reboot (really fsck -p). But I still have my reservations about keeping lots of arcane metadata in obscure locations. If this could all be made to work with a maximum of transparency, I'll probably shut up and not bitch too much (not that it matters as my technical contributions have been minimal:-). [It's frustrating being able to half-grasp the concepts being bandied about and not being able to a) find time to write code and b) understand the code to be written.] (stream_t *) (--*greywolf)->u_thought = 0; From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 10:25:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA22492 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22455; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minnow.render.com (minnow.render.com [193.195.178.1]) by minnow.render.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA23478; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:21:14 +0100 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:21:13 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead In-Reply-To: <199610021520.KAA01060@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, John Dyson wrote: > > > > In message <199610021439.JAA00980@dyson.iquest.net>, John Dyson writes: > > > > >> As a process A reads a file F *sequentially* the fields(v_maxra, v_ralen, et > > >c) of the vnode of F increases. As a result read-ahead of next cluster happens > > >. > > >> But when a process B opens F and reads it the values of the fields are > > >> changed. So the process A's read-ahead is disturbed whenever process B is > > >> rescheduled. > > >> > > >> I think the fields for read-ahead must be in struct file rather than vnode. > > >> There exists one vnode for a file but a file may be open serveral times. > > >> > > >That is closer to correct. I am not sure that the struct file is correct > > >either, but I think that you are on the right track. > > > > No, I don't agree. Process B will most likely find all it needs in the > ^^^^^^ > > buffercache, and thus will not need read-ahead at all. > > > > I agree with the term "likely", but it is possible that two processes > are not reading the entire file sequentially. Also, it is possible that > the file size is much bigger than main memory, thereby busting the cache. > Read-ahead is then the only performance improvement to be had. Nowadays, > I think that drives actually have segmented read-ahead caches also. We > don't though. You could maintain a number of 'pending readahead' structures indexed by vnode and block number. Each call to cluster_read would check for a pending readahead by hashing. For efficiency, keep a pointer to the last readahead structure used by cluster_read in the vnode in place of the existing in-vnode readahead data. Should be no slower than the current system for single process reads and it saves 4 bytes per vnode :-). -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 734 3761 FAX: +44 171 734 6426 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 10:37:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23315 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:37:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23308 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA29739; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:45:19 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:45:19 -0400 Message-Id: <199610021745.NAA29739@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: isdn code Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > To the rest on this line: Dennis doesn't like ISDN, and will try to >> > put it down as much as possible to boost his own Frame Relay stuff, >> >> Wasn't this Terry ? ;-) > >No; I favor frame relay because I can go over 64k without bonding and >over 128k at all. I also favor it for an ISP because I need only one >connection termination for the cloud, and I don't have to buy DSU's and >routers and fan out cards. > >I could, if I wanted, terminate the T1 to the cloud at my NSP and have >no real transport overhead, as an ISP offering FR end-pointing. For >a 50% peak bandwith overcommit, I can charge about $80/Month in a US West >service area. This is about $220/Month cheaper than ISDN and still >leaves me $60k/year to run a support desk. If I increase my overcommit, >or my charges, it gives me some slack, some profit taking, and some >expansion capitol. This argument, again, is somewhat misguided, as you can certainly run frame relay over ISDN. My original comment was that ISDN is simply transport.... its not a networking protocol, and is not directly comparible to frame relay. The ppp / HDLC comment simply pointed out that saying that one is better than the other has no meaning since ppp often runs over HDLC. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 10:40:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23670 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23647; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA01329; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:40:10 -0500 (EST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199610021740.MAA01329@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead To: dfr@render.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:40:10 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Oct 2, 96 06:21:13 pm Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You could maintain a number of 'pending readahead' structures indexed by > vnode and block number. Each call to cluster_read would check for a > pending readahead by hashing. For efficiency, keep a pointer to the last > readahead structure used by cluster_read in the vnode in place of the > existing in-vnode readahead data. Should be no slower than the current > system for single process reads and it saves 4 bytes per vnode :-). > Pretty cool idea. I am remembering now that this deficiency in our read ahead code is well known. This might be something really good for 2.3 or 3.1 :-). (Unless someone else wants to implement it -- hint hint :-)). John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 12:21:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA29640 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29633 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmacd@localhost) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA03816 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:21:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:21:08 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199610021921.MAA03816@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: rand() and random() Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm curious why rand() still exists. Everyone knows its really bad. Why not just ditch it in favor of random()? -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 12:36:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00895 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA00884 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id MAA03273; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04752; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610021936.MAA04752@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Howard Lew cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cpu identification In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 01 Oct 96 22:37:14 -0700. Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 12:36:35 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I have the source for properly identifying Cyrix cpus up to the 6x86 and >I think the source for the AMD K5 is on AMD's WWW site... The NexGen >source is still on AMD's web site I believe. Or has someone already done >all that yet? http://www.x86.org/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 13:43:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05418 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05411 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pat.idt.unit.no by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA08769 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:43:04 -0700 Received: from idt.unit.no (hyll.idt.unit.no [129.241.200.3]) by pat.idt.unit.no (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23298; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:33:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610022033.WAA23298@pat.idt.unit.no> To: bde@zeta.org.au Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:31:49 +1000" References: <199610020731.RAA28429@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mew version 1.03 on Emacs 19.31.1 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 22:33:06 +0200 From: Tor Egge Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps it should run at spl < splsoftclock. (Loss of ordinary clock > interrupts is worse than loss of RTC interrupts, so perhaps it should > also run at spl < splclock. This is now automatic because > splsoftclock < splclock, but splsoftclock should probably be changed > so that it is >= splclock.) If you lose one RTC interrupt, you lose all RTC interrupts thereafter, since the interrupt handler must enable further interrupts. If you lose one clock interrupt, the clock is one tick wrong. This error can later be corrected by use of xntpd or timed. Thus I disagree: loss of an RTC interrupt is far worse. About running at spl < splsoftclock , see the end of this message. > >In an attempt to avoid losing an RTC interrupt, I've recently added > >some code to the interrupt handler in the device driver to check for a > >pending timer interrupt and a repeatedly pending RTC interrupt. If > >such an interrupt is pending, the restart of the device is performed > >in a timeout routine called by softclock instead of in the interrupt > >handler, causing all pending hardware interrupts to be processed. > > It would be better to avoid using timeouts. The timeout may be further > delayed, and many real interrupts may occur before it is called. This > can probably be fixed by adding another software interrupt handler like > the sio one but running at splhigh(). The device in question is automatically suspended when it has generated an interrupt, thus it is not critical for the correctness that it is restarted at once. A timeout of 1 tick will be processed very soon when an unhandled timer interrupt is pending. If the device is always restarted from the hardware interrupt context, it may generate a continuous stream of hardware interrupts causing a delay of e.g. 0.3 seconds inside another interrupt handler. > >This seems to work, and prohibit the loss of RTC interrupts, but > >I found no good method of checking for pending/blocked interrupts: > > > > ((imen & 1) || (inb(IO_ICU1) & 1)) > > > >and > > > > ((imen & 256) || (inb(IO_ICU2) & 1)) > > > >are not what I would consider easily readable code to check for > >pending IRQ0 and IRQ8. > > It would be more correct to use `ipending' instead of `imen'. `ipending' > gives pending interrupts that the system already knows about. `imen' is > in implementation detail. However, I think there are more races for > `ipending' (some btrl's of it in icu.s are done with interrupts enabled). > The bit flag in ipending is only set when the interrupt is blocked by cpl, and it is always cleared before the interrupt handler is called. Thus ipending is not usable with regards to hardware interrupts. I have worked around this problem by letting all other hardware interrupts block the interrupt for the device. I now use ipending to check for a pending SWI_CLOCK. > It may be unnecesssary to check ipending or imen, since pending interrupts > will be restarted automatically and you don't want to restart them twice. > OTOH, it may be necessary to change `ipending' to get multiple restarts > to work right. Checking it is the least of your problems. But something was causing an RTC interrupt to be lost. I've only experienced it while profiling a program (while the RTC interrupt rate is 1024 Hz), thus I can only assume that the RTC does not like a latency longer than the interval between two RTC interrupts. > >A macro as e.g.: > > > >#define INTRBLOCKED(i) ((imen & (1<<(i))) || (inb((i)>=8?IO_ICU2:IO_ICU1)&(1<<((i)&7)))) > > > >can cause the code to be more readable, but may also add some overhead > >unless the compiler manages to reduce it to the variants shown earlier. > > gcc will optimize this nicely provided `i' is constant. > > >Maybe a better way is to rewrite the fastintr handler, to enable the > > Do you really need to use a fastintr handler? The fastness of a fastintr > handler isn't very important, at least on current hardware. The important > thing is to take complete control of the machine so that timing constraints > can be satisfied. This currently only works right if there is only one > fairly short fastintr handler or several very short ones. The sum of > the interrupt latencies must be <= the minimum permissible latency. > The minimum permissible latency is 87us if there is an 8250 UART running > at 115200 bps, 2*87us if there is a 16550 UART running at 115200 bps > (since the fifo size less the fifo trigger level is 2). The constraints > for clock latencies are much weaker (the normal worst case is 2* > 1000000/1024 us for the RTC in profiling mode). No. I don't need to use a fastintr handler, and I've now reverted to using slow interrupts (maximum rate: 61500 interrupts/s, i.e. 16 us/interrupt. > >ICUs before calling the interrupt handler? Then the interrupt handler > >could enable interrupts, disable interrupts, and just check the imen > >variable instead of polling the interrupt controller. Then a macro for > > Enabling interrupts would defeat the point of it being a fastintr handler. > Other interrupts could occur and take a long time to handle. However, > clock and other fastintr interrupts might not take too long. It would eliminate the low latency for handling this device. That is no problem, as it does not depend on low latency handling. > >the check would be trivial, e.g.: > > > >#define INTRBLOCKED(i) (imen & (1<<(i))) > > > >I cannot immediately see any reasons not to reenable the ICUs before > >calling the interrupt handler from the fast interrupt vector code in > >vector.s, since interrupts are disabled by default when the interrupt > >handler is called. > > Yes, this makes no difference. Also, the ICUs get reenabled immediately > if the AUTO_EOI_* options are used. The problems start with temporarily > reemabling interrupts in a fastintr handler. Another problem is that > here's nothing to stop infinite nesting of the fastintr handler. That depends on the device in question. Nesting should be no problem as long as interrupts are disabled again before telling the device that it can generate further interrupts. I have now reverted to using slow interrupts. What I do in addition is: 1. loop through intr_mptr[], blocking the interrupt for the device during any hardware interrupt. 2. loop through the imasks array, blocking the interrupt for the device during any software interrupt. 3. In the interrupt handler for the device, check ipending for a pending SWI_CLOCK, and if any so, perform the restart of the device in the timeout routine instead of in the interupt handler. 4. In hardclock(), softclock() is no longer called directly, since splsoftclock() does not block the device. 1. is done to avoid starvation of other hardware interrupt handlers. 2., 3. and 4. is done to avoid starvation of the timeout() handling. (e.g. avoid ncr dead? messages). - Tor Egge From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 14:20:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA07941 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07930 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04743; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:18:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610022118.OAA04743@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:18:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, greywolf@siva.captech.com, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961002050148.008cf4c8@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Oct 2, 96 01:01:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Question: Why do block devices know about partitioning? Wouldn't it make > more sense to have a "disk" driver, that has a list of disks and disk > drivers attached to it? This way the user doesn't have to deal with > sd0 vs wd0 vs xy0 vs whatever, they work with /dev/disk0a. The "disk" > driver would have an ioctl that passed up the ASCII id string returned > by disks, or by the disk driver itself (or some other identifier, you > decide). The "disk" driver could deal with partitions in it's own manner. > > What am I missing here? 1:N fanout of logical-to-physical device mappings. For instance, N==1 for DOS partitioning. This implies a device hierarchy needs to be imposed, using directories to implement the fan out. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 14:43:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09058 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09051 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04776; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:40:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610022140.OAA04776@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:40:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: buhrow@cats.ucsc.edu, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, phk@critter.tfs.com, greywolf@siva.captech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961002052637.008e9d0c@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Oct 2, 96 01:26:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... soft geometry control metadata ... ] > How about storing the data in a private section of the disk, and being able > to export the data into a flat file, human readable? Then also being > able to parse the output file and restore it onto the disk? > > I mean, the mount command on some (all?) systems can generate an fstab. > Why not the virtual disk device? Actually, you want each device to be able to do several things: 1) Ennumerate partitioning allowed on this logical or physical device 2) Determine partitioning currently present on this device 3) Manipulate partitioning currently present on this device 4) Export additional device based on active partitioning Thus: struct pt_enum pterec; /* partition entry records*/ struct pt_contrl ptectrl; /* partition entry control*/ struct pt_data ptdata; /* partition table entry*/ int fd; int cnt = 0 fd = open( devname, O_RDWR); /* get available partitioning*/ pterec.index = 0; while( ioctl( fd, PTIO_ENUMALL, &pterec)) { /* get list of allowable partitioning schemas*/. strcpy( list[ cnt], pterec.name); cnt++; } /* list/select paritioning*/ if( ioctl( fd, PTIO_GETACT, &ptectrl) == 0) { printf( "Current partitioning is %s\n", list[ ptectrl.type]); ... } else { int i; printf( "Not partitioned. Available partitioning:\n"); for( i = 0; i < cnt; i++) { printf( " %2d. %s\n", i, list[ i]); } ... } /* display partitions present on device*/ ptdata.index = 0; while( ioctl( fd, PTIO_ENUMACT, &ptdata) { printf( "partition %i (in blocks):\n", ptdata.index - 1); printf( " relative start: %d\n", ptdata.pd_rstart); printf( " relative end : %d\n", ptdata.pd_rend); printf( " total length : %d\n", ptdata.pd_length); printf( " physical start: %d\n", ptdata.pd_start); printf( " physical end : %d\n", ptdata.pd_end); printf( " device name : %s/%s\n", devname, ptdata.pd_dnam); printf( "\n"); } One tool handles all partitioning tasks... for all partitioning schemas. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 14:47:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09242 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09237 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04796; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:45:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610022145.OAA04796@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:45:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: Chris_G_Demetriou@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, phk@critter.tfs.com, greywolf@siva.captech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961002054454.008cfba4@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Oct 2, 96 01:44:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm hoping to avoid somebody saying "But I don't WANT it to rearrange my > data, and put it on different disks automatically!". Of course, you could > still cut off that feature. In that event, it could still give you hints. Generate an event stream as a reasult of FS events, then, and export the stream interface. This is generally useful for things like "Hi, I'm a browser, tell me when the directory changes so I can redisplay it instead of polling it every 10 seconds like a Macintosh does to an AppleTalk Server". The events would be interpreted by a management facility with active components. By default, the active components would not be provided (ie: you want that type of behaviour, you write it). See the AFS documentation for more information on this type of event processing facility. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 14:49:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09417 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09408 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04812; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:48:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610022148.OAA04812@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: XDrawString To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:48:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: jmacd@cs.berkeley.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Bob Bishop" at Oct 2, 96 09:43:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >My results showed that XDrawString on a 2048 character string, > >where only 50 or so are on-screen takes much longer than the same > >call with only the visible length supplied. > > This is a well-known problem. When called to investigate a dog-slow X app > one of the first things I check for is drawing to points far off-screen. > > >This strikes me as a > >rather stupid way to do things, but thats just an opinion. > > You are not alone in this opinion :-) > Basically there's some nasty pathology in a clipping algorithm somewhere in > there. I personally expect the Xlib to imply a cliprect on the data it sends to the X server. I would call this an Xlib problem (unless you *know* there is backing store and want to pan locally, in which case, you are truly still updating the contents of a drawable, and it's *supposed* to work that way). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 14:57:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09849 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09836 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04828; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:54:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610022154.OAA04828@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:54:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: jrg@demon.net, mrg@eterna.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610021219.FAA02036@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Oct 2, 96 10:18:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmmm, having used LVM, seen ccd docs, to me, it should be something > like this: > > +----------------------------------+ > | FFS/UFS/NTFS/LFS/VXFS/EXT2/... | > +------------------+---------+-----+ > | | LVM | | > | disks +---+-----+ CCD | > | | | > | hd* sd* xd* +-----------+ > | | > +----------------------------------+ Ugh. A FS type must be able to express a preference or deny an underlying media type. For instance, FFS should be permitted to prevent you putting it on a device which has Logical Device Attributes of LDA_MAY_GROW or LDA_MAY_SHRINK, since handling of these operations requires that the FS register a callback to allow or veto the operation, depending on whether or not it has handlers. Similarly, JFS/NTFS/LFS/etc. which can handle changing agregation sizes with an LVM facility (adding or deleting PP's from the volume) must call back to determine allowable size change increment. I believe JFS requires a 4M or an 8M increment, in all cases, for instance. This is a highly complex issue. I would warn against a soloution that can be represented as a two dimensional image. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 14:59:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09972 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09950; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04844; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:57:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610022157.OAA04844@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead To: heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr (Heo Sung-Gwan) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:57:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Heo Sung-Gwan" at Oct 2, 96 11:17:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > When a file is open serveral times simultaneously cluster read-ahead > buffer cache using vnode seem to have some problems. > > As a process A reads a file F *sequentially* the fields(v_maxra, v_ralen, etc) of the vnode of F increases. As a result read-ahead of next cluster happens. > But when a process B opens F and reads it the values of the fields are > changed. So the process A's read-ahead is disturbed whenever process B is > rescheduled. > > I think the fields for read-ahead must be in struct file rather than vnode. > There exists one vnode for a file but a file may be open serveral times. > > What's your opinion, hackers? Matt Day noted this problem some time ago. The problem increases when you have multiple threads in a single process with conflicting acess domains. One soloution would be to "trust cache locality to work". This is not very satisfying for read-ahead. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 15:03:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA10289 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10281 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04883; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:02:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610022202.PAA04883@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: rand() and random() To: jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU (Josh MacDonald) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:02:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610021921.MAA03816@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> from "Josh MacDonald" at Oct 2, 96 12:21:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm curious why rand() still exists. Everyone knows its really > bad. Why not just ditch it in favor of random()? Because it is ANSI conrfmant (man rand). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 15:18:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA11018 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.iafrica.com (root@chain.iafrica.com [196.7.74.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA11010 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chain.iafrica.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA00268 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:17:44 +0200 (SAT) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:17:44 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan/ X-Alternate-Address: khetan@uunet.co.za X-Alternate-Address2: kg@iafrica.com X-Alternate-Address3: gjjkhe01@sonnenberg.uct.ac.za X-Alternate-Address4: khetan@chain.iafrica.com X-Comment: Telkom sucks huge! X-IRC-nick: chain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. I sent this to questions@freebsd.org, but got no response. Sorry if this is in the wrong place, but thought you might have a suggestion. Mark Murray did suggest quite a few things, the most interesting being cvssup. However, this assumes I've got modula3 installed. Over a dialup, downloading a 10MB+ tar.gz file is not fun. I want to know if it will work though - then I will do it. The (other) obvious alternative is to re-download the whole tree - not attractive at all. And if I do, what do I do to get back to ctm (which is quite easy) ? ---message--- I'm afraid I might have possibly smoked my CVS tree. I hadn't applied the ctm deltas in quite a while, and decided to do so tonight. Unfortunately, it didn't work : [chain] /usr/home/ncvs# cat .ctm_status cvs-cur 2521 [chain] /usr/home/ncvs# ctm ../ctm/cvs-cur.2521.gz Delta number 2521 is already applied; ignoring. Exit(0) [chain] /usr/home/ncvs# ctm ../ctm/cvs-cur.2522.gz DM: ports/mail/mailagent exists. DM: ports/mail/mailagent/files exists. DM: ports/mail/mailagent/patches exists. DM: ports/mail/mailagent/pkg exists. DM: ports/mail/mailagent/scripts exists. FN: CVSROOT/commitlogs/CVSROOT md5 mismatch. FN: CVSROOT/commitlogs/CVSROOT edit fails. Exit(120) [chain] /usr/home/ncvs# I think I might have smoked the tree :-( Now, I'm a dial up user, so I don't want to re-download the whole tree again. Is there any way for me to take the tree back to say, cvs-cur.2450 and apply all the deltas since then ? TIA, --- Khetan Gajjar [ http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan] I'm a FreeBSD User! [ http://www.freebsd.org] UUNet Internet Africa [0800-030-002 & help@iafrica.com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 15:46:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12378 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s204m16.whistle.com [207.76.204.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12355; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24399; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3252EF57.13728473@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 15:40:23 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams CC: HOSOKAWA Tatsumi , hackers@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available References: <199610020538.OAA00439@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> <199610021526.JAA09508@rocky.mt.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote: > > > PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available. The URL is > > "ftp://ryukyu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD/PAO/PAO-961002.tar.gz". > > > > Most of the changes are about APM driver. Now shutdown -x halts the > > machine and turns off the power supply, etc.... > > Thanks for doing the cleanup on the APM driver. I had done this a > couple months ago but never got around to committing it due to the > changes we had in the PAO code and the FreeBSD code. I even had Poul > review the changes, but he's been too busy to get back with me on them. > > I'll try and get at least some of these patches integrated into FreeBSD > in the next week or so. > > Thanks! Nate, not the "at_shutdown()" available in -current now.. and also the reboot.h flags for "turn off power" we added support for this in out FreeBSD product. the APM stuff can be made to hook in there without any additional hacks in kern_shutdown.c > > Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 15:52:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12755 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12750 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA26568 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12833; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199610022250.QAA12833@rover.village.org> To: ws@kurt.tools.de (Wolfgang Solfrank) Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: Chris_G_Demetriou@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Oct 1996 17:09:10 +0200." <199610021509.RAA23721@kurt.tools.de> References: <199610021509.RAA23721@kurt.tools.de> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:50:21 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610021509.RAA23721@kurt.tools.de> Wolfgang Solfrank writes: : CHRP (Common Hardware Reference Platform) require that the firmware be able : to load the bootcode from FAT filesystems or 9660 filesystems either directly : from a disk or from an FDISK partition (including an extended one). The ARC BIOS standard for MIPS based PC class machines has similar requirements. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 15:57:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA13030 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13025 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12606 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610022256.PAA12606@austin.polstra.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Unix consultant available Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 15:56:59 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am looking for consulting or contract programming work, preferably Unix-related (better yet, FreeBSD-related). I have worked professionally on Unix internals, language tools, and applications since 1978. During the past year, I've been on a "research sabbatical," working primarily on projects connected with FreeBSD. Some of you may have noticed a few of the things I've done during the past year: CVSup, Elfkit, the dynamic linker speed-ups, and bug fixes in the kernel and various tools. Please contact me if you'd like a copy of my resume. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 16:53:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA15381 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA15374; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:53:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199610022353.QAA15374@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( To: khetan@iafrica.com (Khetan Gajjar) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Khetan Gajjar" at Oct 3, 96 00:17:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Khetan Gajjar wrote: > > Mark Murray did suggest quite a few things, the most interesting being > cvssup. However, this assumes I've got modula3 installed. Over a dialup, > downloading a 10MB+ tar.gz file is not fun. I want to know if it will work > though - then I will do it. The (other) obvious alternative is to > re-download the whole tree - not attractive at all. get the binary distribution of cvsup. it is about 1.2 MB when gzipped, 3.2MB when expanded. you do *not* need modula-3 installed. the binary is statically linked. it is EXCELLENT! i can update in 5 minutes, used to take about 40. thank you, john polstra! jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 17:04:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA15889 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA15884 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA13587; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:04:19 -0700 (PDT) To: Khetan Gajjar cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Oct 1996 00:17:44 +0200." Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 17:04:19 -0700 Message-ID: <13585.844301059@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Mark Murray did suggest quite a few things, the most interesting being > cvssup. However, this assumes I've got modula3 installed. Over a dialup, Not at all - there are binary versions available. See ftp://freefall.freebsd.org/pub/CVSup Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 17:12:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA16224 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16219; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id JAA00292; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:11:56 +0900 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:11:56 +0900 Message-Id: <199610030011.JAA00292@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: julian@whistle.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 02 Oct 1996 15:40:23 -0700. <3252EF57.13728473@whistle.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <3252EF57.13728473@whistle.com> julian@whistle.com writes: >> not the "at_shutdown()" available in -current now.. >> and also the reboot.h flags for "turn off power" Okay, I got it. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 18:21:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA19689 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19674 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA13498; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610030121.SAA13498@austin.polstra.com> To: Khetan Gajjar Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 18:21:24 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Mark Murray did suggest quite a few things, the most interesting > being cvssup. However, this assumes I've got modula3 installed. No, not really. There are statically-linked FreeBSD executables available from the CVSup distribution sites: ftp://freefall.freebsd.org/pub/CVSup/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ ftp://ftp.polstra.com/pub/FreeBSD/CVSup/ (slow; avoid if possible) The file you want is "cvsup-bin-13.4.tar.gz". It's about 1.1 MB. You don't need Modula-3 or anything else to run it. > Over a dialup, downloading a 10MB+ tar.gz file is not fun. I've been working on the Modula-3 port, and the package is "only" about 5 MB now. Also, the port now uses custom distfiles that are much smaller than the files from DEC SRC. If you build from sources using the port, you have to download 3.3-4.5 MB of sources, depending on what is already on your system. (The port will use your existing gcc-2.7.2.1 sources, if they're present on your system.) If I were in your situation, personally, I'd start with the binaries. > I want to know if it will work though - then I will do it. It should work OK to recover your tree, with one important caveat. If you have some "extra" files in your tree that should not be there at all, CVSup won't remove them. Like sup, it will only remove a file that it created or that it otherwise "knows" about. Files that have moved into or out of the Attic (the more common case) will be handled OK. Here's another possibility. I have heard reports that "rsync" (see "net/rsync" in the ports collection) works well for recovering a severely damaged tree. You might want to take a look at that. Good luck fixing things up! John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 18:24:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA19903 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19897 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 18:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id VAA09272 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:24:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Any info on Hackerbrau? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1944259094-844305860=:9254" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1944259094-844305860=:9254 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Any hackers know anything about hackerbrau? Hmm.. they claim Hackerbrau has been around since 1417, wonder what they were hacking back then? :) kim -- kimc@w8hd.org --0-1944259094-844305860=:9254 Content-Type: IMAGE/JPEG; name="img000.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: hackerbrau.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsL DBkSEw8UHRofHh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/ 2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCADwAUADASIAAhEBAxEB/8QA HwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUF BAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1 dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXG x8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEB AQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAEC AxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRom 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T1IOe1FwMlbCEHOCfqamW1RcY2irr+ST1wfaoinGVBx2JNAWI/IYnG+oymON 2SD2NTnI7/lTevGTQA1MqcDn61KGbHUfhSqmMfP1pwHy8HFFhicrkkAGoiw6 /wA6lLYGAM/U1Ecnk9aSQDcjGcHmk4/KhgM5P6mjHcA0AMOOm08+lBHtTsHq c5oKjH6daewiM8nOc00ipPz/AJ0xsCgCOkPSlbPrTf50AITTTTiRSEj0xQB/ /9k= --0-1944259094-844305860=:9254-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 20:33:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA25697 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from myall.awadi.com.au (myall.awadi.com.AU [150.207.2.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA25692; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunya.awadi ([150.207.2.63]) by myall.awadi.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16403; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:02:46 +0930 (CST) Received: from buloke.awadi by bunya.awadi (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA15126; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:02:46 +0930 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:02:46 +0930 From: dbarker@awadi.com.au (Dave Barker) Message-Id: <199610030332.NAA15126@bunya.awadi> Received: by buloke.awadi (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29954; Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:02:44 CST To: phk@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Apologies: duporama In-Reply-To: <3150.844263577@critter.tfs.com> References: <3150.844263577@critter.tfs.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "phk" == Poul-Henning Kamp writes: phk> you bounce email back to the FreeBSD mailing lists! phk> I have unsubscribed you from all the lists. phk> Please fix this problem before resubscribing! To those of you who have noticed duplicate messages in your mailboxes... one from me and one from the real author. My apologies, I had just setup a mail spool and forwarder in procmail for the FreeBSD lists. The forwarder called sendmail on the raw messages, and I was giving a -t option to it. And I thought only incompetent people did things like this. :-( While the dups shouldn't have made it to the FreeBSD lists themselves, all those others listed as recipients will have gotten dups from me. I think there were about 200 messages in my private spool, so that would be about 30 addresses, at least one of which was a mailing list... I'm still considering my penance for this act of wanton stupidity. Suggestions are welcome. Regards, Dave Barker. BTW: I recall there was a conical hat for just these occasions, where did it go? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 20:42:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA26120 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from badboy.wisetech.com (badboy.wisetech.com [205.231.232.76]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA26111 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from badboy.wisetech.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by badboy.wisetech.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA16118; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:29:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3253330F.167EB0E7@wisetech.com> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 23:29:19 -0400 From: Rick Weldon Organization: Weldon Internet SEcurity Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b7 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kim Culhan CC: hackers@freebsd.org, rick@wisetech.com Subject: Re: Any info on Hackerbrau? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kim Culhan wrote: > > Any hackers know anything about hackerbrau? > At the risk of being pedantic it isn't pronounced like you think though. Phonetically it would be close to "Hawkerbroi". Pronounce the "a" like you would with the "w" following it only take the "w" out when you say it and lightly roll the "r". They are the Hacker half of Hacker-Pschorr. Great Bier. I had fun in their 'fest tent in Munich. Drank lots of it. Actually too much :-) Ob blond, ob dunkel ...auf Ihr Wohl! The type of bier in your picture is Edelhell (lit. "noble blond or bright" versus dunkel which is dark) > Hmm.. they claim Hackerbrau has been around since 1417, wonder what > they were hacking back then? :) > Good question :) I know the monks live on stark bier (strong beer) through lent. (drank lots of it as well. Black, stuff floating in it, bitter, and the best bier buzz in the world!) For 40 days it is all they consume. The stuff sustains life! Geez... I can't think of a better way to spend lent. Under these conditions I would imagine they really were hacking. (as in praying to the porcelain god) :-) :-) > kim > > -- > kimc@w8hd.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] -- | Rick Weldon -- WISE-Tech LLC | E-mail: rick@wisetech.com | Was ist los? Der hund ist los und katze im keller! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 21:18:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA27942 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA27932 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.0/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id EAA13438; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:18:09 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:18:09 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: flock/sendmail stuffup In-Reply-To: <199610011800.LAA02000@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > flock also has better semantics. I think fcntl() still releases all locks > > when any one process closes the file. To be more precise, locks shouldn't be released until last close(). With fcntl()/posix locking semantics it does it the bogus way. > I will have to check it. If it does, it is in error. Locks must be > explicitly released, or there is an implied release on decrement of > reference count from 1->0. In other words, it's in the close() code, > not the exit code that calls the close code. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 21:39:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA28861 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA28852 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id OAA32243; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:37:08 +1000 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:37:08 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610030437.OAA32243@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Perhaps it should run at spl < splsoftclock. (Loss of ordinary clock >> interrupts is worse than loss of RTC interrupts, so perhaps it should >... >If you lose one RTC interrupt, you lose all RTC interrupts >thereafter, since the interrupt handler must enable further >interrupts. That's if you miss calling the RTC interrupt handler. AFAIK, the RTC IRQ line always stays high until the IRQ is serviced. This is what happens here. Last night, one of my systems was sitting at the debugger prompt with interrupts disabled, and RTC interrupts still worked when I left the debugger. I have a counter in the RTC interrupt handler so I can be sure that it wasn't called. >If you lose one clock interrupt, the clock is one tick wrong. This error >can later be corrected by use of xntpd or timed. You'll lose 30 clock interrupts for disabling interrupts for 0.3 seconds. I lost 3600000 interrupts for disabling interrupts for 10 hours :-). For debugging should be recovered by reading the RTC or by polling the 8254 in the debugger i/o routines. >> It would be more correct to use `ipending' instead of `imen'. `ipending' >> gives pending interrupts that the system already knows about. `imen' is >>... >The bit flag in ipending is only set when the interrupt is blocked by >cpl, and it is always cleared before the interrupt handler is called. >Thus ipending is not usable with regards to hardware interrupts. Neither is very usable. If ipending is clear but imen is set, then the interrupt handler must be active. It may be about to exit, in which case you want to restart it, or it may be in a loop, in which case you don't want to do anything, since it may handle the interrupt and then be confused by being called again. However, it may be that the IRR bit in the ICU can never be set while the handler is active (because the ICU mask bit stops it from working). >But something was causing an RTC interrupt to be lost. I've only >experienced it while profiling a program (while the RTC interrupt rate >is 1024 Hz), thus I can only assume that the RTC does not like a >latency longer than the interval between two RTC interrupts. Please check this. Disable interrupts for a second or two and see if the RTC stops. >> Do you really need to use a fastintr handler? The fastness of a fastintr >>... >No. I don't need to use a fastintr handler, and I've now reverted to >using slow interrupts (maximum rate: 61500 interrupts/s, i.e. 16 us/interrupt. OK. >> >I cannot immediately see any reasons not to reenable the ICUs before >> >calling the interrupt handler from the fast interrupt vector code in >> >... >> Yes, this makes no difference. Also, the ICUs get reenabled immediately >> if the AUTO_EOI_* options are used. The problems start with temporarily >> ... >That depends on the device in question. Nesting >should be no problem as long as interrupts are disabled again >before telling the device that it can generate further interrupts. There might be some minor problems. intr_nesting_level is not adjusted for fastintr handlers. If the device needs to be masked in the ICU, it would be better to cooperate with the usually masking. This could be implemented easily as a notsofastintr handler - same as a normal intr handler except it doesn't enable interrupts before calling the handler. >I have now reverted to using slow interrupts. What I do in addition is: > > 1. loop through intr_mptr[], blocking the interrupt for the device > during any hardware interrupt. > 2. loop through the imasks array, blocking the interrupt for the > device during any software interrupt. OK. Perhaps there should be a special device class for this. The interrupt mask low_imask would be OR'ed into all the other masks. > 3. In the interrupt handler for the device, check ipending for > a pending SWI_CLOCK, and if any so, perform the restart of the > device in the timeout routine instead of in the interupt > handler. There should be a macro for this. (The setxxx() and schedxxx() macros in spl.h are supposed to hide implementation details.) > 4. In hardclock(), softclock() is no longer called directly, > since splsoftclock() does not block the device. It is already never called directly in FreeBSD (see ). There are nesting problems, e.g., in hardclock(), the clock bit is set in the ICU, so clock interrupts would be masked in softclock() if it were called directly (unless you fix unset the bit in the ICU and fix the problems that this would cause...); softclock process may take a long time, so some future hardclock calls may (rarely) be missed and some future clock interrupts at 16KHz for pcaudio will usually be missed. >1. is done to avoid starvation of other hardware interrupt handlers. >2., 3. and 4. is done to avoid starvation of the timeout() handling. (e.g. >avoid ncr dead? messages). Someone should fix the ncr driver. I deleted the (np->latetime>4) section so that it is doesn't get confused by ddb masking some incr interrupts but not clock interrupts. Its error handling for the non-error screws up the SCSI bus. I wouldn't worry about fixing timeout handling. It is normal on slow machines to miss a couple of timeouts. Device drivers should be prepared for this. Maybe not for 0.3 seconds - 10 hours though. Some devices may not be prepared for that. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 21:43:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA29167 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Mail.IDT.NET (mail.idt.net [198.4.75.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA29160 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sequoia (ppp-7.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.7]) by Mail.IDT.NET (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA17872; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32534483.1CA8@mail.idt.net> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 00:43:47 -0400 From: Gary Corcoran Reply-To: garycorc@mail.idt.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce Evans CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. References: <199610020731.RAA28429@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote: > > >To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > >Subject: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. > > This should probably be To: freebsd-current :-). Ummm... I don't have the time to run -current, but I *am* interested in discussions on general hacker issues like interrupt latencies and real-time code. These issues could apply to new code/drivers written for released versions as well, so I was happy to be able to read this on a list I subscribe to (-hackers)... Just my opinion... ;-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 21:47:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA29462 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA29457; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA28954; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:46:48 -0700 (PDT) To: dbarker@awadi.com.au (Dave Barker) cc: phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apologies: duporama In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Oct 1996 13:02:46 +0930." <199610030332.NAA15126@bunya.awadi> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 21:46:47 -0700 Message-ID: <28951.844318007@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BTW: I recall there was a conical hat for just these occasions, where > did it go? You'll have to wait until Peter's done with it. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 21:58:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA00327 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from myall.awadi.com.au (myall.awadi.com.AU [150.207.2.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00319 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunya.awadi ([150.207.2.63]) by myall.awadi.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18937; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:25:54 +0930 (CST) Received: from mallee.awadi by bunya.awadi (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA16866; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:25:42 +0930 Received: by mallee.awadi (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA08572; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:25:40 +0930 From: blymn@awadi.com.au (Brett Lymn) Message-Id: <199610030455.OAA08572@mallee.awadi> Subject: bunya mail problem... To: jonathan@DSG.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Stone) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:25:39 +0930 (CST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, greywolf@siva.captech.com, kpneal@pobox.com, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, postmaster@x.physics.usyd.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199610021627.JAA29671@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> from "Jonathan Stone" at Oct 2, 96 09:27:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Jonathan Stone: > > >I'm getting duplicate replies of most of the messages >in this thread, after about a 15-hour to 24-hour delay. > OK - I saw one of these myself in my mail box. It is really really weird. According to the headers bunya is deciding to send the mail out our gateway again - no errors - no nothing it just does it. Currently I am suspecting a botched patch from Sun which I installed late last week. I have backed out the patch as of now - so if you see any more of these repeats PLEASE mail ME (blymn@awadi.com.au) right away so I know that it is not fixed. Bunya is not reachable but it does have a MX that points at myall - the rewrites on myall should be killing all host names in the outgoing awadi addresses. I shall check that this is still happening. Brett"Not a happy trooper"Lymn -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Upgrading your memory gives you MORE RAM!" - ad in MacWAREHOUSE catalogue. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 22:09:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA00851 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from answerman.mindspring.com (answerman.mindspring.com [204.180.128.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA00846 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by answerman.mindspring.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01788; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-168-121-39-4.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.39.4]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA27787; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:08:40 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961003050855.006b6f70@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 01:08:55 -0400 To: Terry Lambert From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed), jrg@demon.net, mrg@eterna.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:54 PM 10/2/96 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >Ugh. > >A FS type must be able to express a preference or deny an underlying >media type. For instance, FFS should be permitted to prevent you >putting it on a device which has Logical Device Attributes of >LDA_MAY_GROW or LDA_MAY_SHRINK, since handling of these operations >requires that the FS register a callback to allow or veto the >operation, depending on whether or not it has handlers. It would actually break FFS for a partition to grow underneath it? I mean, it be pretty pointless to make a partition larger than the filesystem if the fs can't grow. Hmmm. I see your point. Shrinking would be the harder case. Would newfs_ffs (or whatever) know which devices could support the filesystem? How would that work? >Similarly, JFS/NTFS/LFS/etc. which can handle changing agregation >sizes with an LVM facility (adding or deleting PP's from the volume) >must call back to determine allowable size change increment. I believe >JFS requires a 4M or an 8M increment, in all cases, for instance. Lemmie see if I have this straight: 1) User program decides to grow/shrink a partition. 2) User program tells partition to grow/shrink 3) Virtual partition asks for the permission of the filesystem 4) Assuming they agree, they work together somehow to do whatever -- Filesystem must make sure there is enough space available to shrink down into. Non-resizable filesystems would just veto the whole shebang. Is that the gist of it? Ok. Doesn't this assume that whatever is sitting on top of the partition is a filesystem? What if it isn't? What if a database or something or other is sitting on top? Would resizing be possible? Wouldn't the mechanism of communicating the resize be different because of the user program hitting the disk instead of going through a filesystem? Third case: What do you do about resizing a swap partition? Can the FreeBSD VM system move swapped out pages out of the way of a resize? How would the partition tell the VM system to move? I guess this might be through the same system as a kernel-based filesystem. Hmmmmm. Know of any good books on the subject? (Chris Dukes the other day asked on the ncsu.os.linux newsgroup if anybody knew of a good class offered by our Computer Science department. If there were any responses, they didn't appear on the newsgroup. Hmmmmm.) (No, there is no ncsu.os.bsd. I guess you can't have a newsgroup for, like, 3 people). -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore, Comp. Sci. \ kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM "Corrected!" -- Old Amiga tips file \ kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM Visit the House of Retrocomputing: / Perm. Email: XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ / kevinneal@bix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 22:16:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA01170 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Mail.IDT.NET (mail.idt.net [198.4.75.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA01165 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sequoia (ppp-7.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.7]) by Mail.IDT.NET (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA01487; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32534BD7.47E0@mail.idt.net> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 01:15:03 -0400 From: Gary Corcoran Reply-To: garycorc@mail.idt.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Mayo CC: Michael Hancock , Chris Csanady , Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NTFS (was Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Mayo wrote: > I dual boot > between NT and FreeBSD on my two machines at home, and the same is true > for about 15 machines where I work.. > > I think NTFS support in FreeBSD would be super -- at least the ability to > mount NTFS partitions so we can move data between the two file systems > (FFS and NTFS) > > just my 2 cents, Another 2 cents worth: I also dual-boot NT and FreeBSD on the same machine, so I would also find NTFS support to be useful. Hey, we're up to 4 cents toward this project - any takers? ;-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 23:11:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA03926 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03917 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id XAA14845 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:11:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Amancio Hasty Message-Id: <199610030611.XAA14845@rah.star-gate.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: REMINDER (Again): Please mirror XFree86 beta Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could someone from the XFree86 team get in touch with jkh for the purpose of setting up a mirror on ftp.freebsd.org? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 23:38:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA05378 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.warman.org.pl [148.81.160.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA05372 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA26074; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:38:38 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:38:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NTFS (was Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest?) In-Reply-To: <32534BD7.47E0@mail.idt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Gary Corcoran wrote: > Mark Mayo wrote: > > I dual boot > > between NT and FreeBSD on my two machines at home, and the same is true > > for about 15 machines where I work.. > > > > I think NTFS support in FreeBSD would be super -- at least the ability to > > mount NTFS partitions so we can move data between the two file systems > > (FFS and NTFS) > > AFAIR (as far as I remember ;) there is a small piece of code on the 'Net which allows Linux to mount NTFS partitions. Maybe it would make a good starting point... Andy, +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Andrzej Bialecki _) _) _)_) _)_)_) _) _) --------------------------------------- _)_) _) _) _) _)_) _)_) Research and Academic Network in Poland _) _)_) _)_)_)_) _) _) _) Bartycka 18, 00-716 Warsaw, Poland _) _) _) _) _)_)_) _) _) +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 2 23:57:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA06357 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (daemon@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA06352 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id QAA02191 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:57:12 +1000 Received: from pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au by ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.7.5/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id QAA20150 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:59:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au [167.123.24.12]) by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA26613 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:57:12 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id GAA26966 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:58:44 GMT Message-Id: <199610030658.GAA26966@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ELF lib to a.out lib converters? X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 16:58:42 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering iof anyone has a tool that will take ELF shared libs and convert them to a.out shared libs. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I've just received my FreeSCO CD, complete with Motif libs and headers and other good bits. BTW, are we ever going to move from a.out to ELF? Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 00:35:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA08957 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.hp.com (relay.hp.com [15.255.152.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08949; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by relay.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA293498131; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:35:32 -0700 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA236448130; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:35:31 -0700 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA013868129; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:35:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199610030735.AA013868129@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: configdisk -- initializing disks via shell scripts Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 00:35:29 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI ... On freefall, I've placed an alpha-test copy of "configdisk", a perl4 program that generates Bourne shell scripts that initialize disks via fdisk, disklabel, and, optionally, newfs. Configdisk is designed to be used by intermediate- to expert-level users, as it still requires knowledge of how fdisk(8), disklabel(8), and newfs(8) work. However, it does help to greatly simplify the task of adding a disk to FreeBSD (I hope ;-). This is an alpha-test version. I'd like to get feedback on it before munging and submitting it as a package. Am I off-base, am I out of my mind, or am I stuck in California? Configdisk requires a specially-modified version of fdisk to work, the sources to which are included in the configdisk tarball: ftp://freefall.freebsd.org/incoming/configdisk-0.8.tar.gz A couple of weeks ago, Jordan said that he'd like a little script to go along with my proposed fdisk changes, and this is the result (but it's not exactly "little" ;-). I've appended a copy of the documentation to the end of this message (note: as yet, no man page exists -- this is all the documentation that currently exists). -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. =============================================================================== NAME configdisk -- Generate a shell script that initializes a disk SYNOPSIS configdisk [-D] [-I] [-f file] [-S size] disk DESCRIPTION The "configdisk" program generates a Bourne shell script that runs fdisk, disklabel, and newfs to initialize an hard disk. The drive is specified by "disk", which is a base drive name like "sd1" or "wd1". This program is designed to simplify the task of adding a disk to FreeBSD. This program runs fdisk(8) and disklabel(8) to get the current drive settings, which can then be edited by the user. After appropriately editing the settings, a shell script is generated. This program must be run as root, as this program must be able to read information from the various disk devices. However, the access is read-only; no data is actually written to a drive by this program. To actually change a drive, the generated shell script must be executed. Note that the shell script will only go as far as running newfs on the various FreeBSD partitions, if you specified that this be done. It will not modify /etc/fstab or mount any filesystems. Advantages/features are: 1. All the information is obtained and used by one program. Currently, you have to use fdisk/disklabel separately, and possibly re-enter the same (geometry/partitioning) information in both programs. 2. Input values (e.g., geometry) are checked for consistency. 3. A shell script is generated to do the actual work. Because of this, it's easy to initialize a second (identical) disk to be the same as the first. It's also easy to modify, or verify what it does, for debugging/verification purposes. 4. A simple slice editor is included (similar to "fdisk -i"). 5. A simple partition editor is included (for editing disklabel partitions). 6. configdisk is intended for expert- or intermediate-level users. This program does not have a "novice mode" that asks questions and produces output; you still have to understand fdisk(8) and disklabel(8), and know what steps to do. However, it does simplify/unify the steps needed to initialize a disk. 7. configdisk will refuse to work with currently-mounted drives, or drives that don't exist. 8. When setting the disk geometry, questionable code to guess the geometry for NCR and Adaptec SCSI adapters can be used (enter "n" or "a" when asked the number of cylinders). The following options are available: -D Dedicate the entire disk to FreeBSD. This will cause any and all existing data on the entire disk to be lost. This will also make the disk unusable and unshareable with other operating systems, as the disk slice table (the "partition table", in MSDOS terminology) will not be usable by them. Use with caution. Implies -I. -I Force disk initialization. This causes the MBR and boot sectors to be initialized. This will cause any and all existing data on the entire disk to be lost. Use with caution. The current default is to not force disk initialization unless an invalid slice table is found, or unless the entire drive is dedicated to FreeBSD. -f script_filename Set the default script filename to "". -S disksize Force the size of the whole disk to be "disksize". Note that this is the size of the entire disk, including all slices and partitions. Only needed for those drives whose size cannot be determined via disklabel(8). BRIEF TUTORIAL To create a Bourne shell script that configures an uninitialized disk, do the following: 1. Determine the base name of the drive that you want to add. Example: "sd1" or "wd1". The rest of this tutorial will assume that the base drive name is "sd1". 2. Decide if you want to dedicate the entire disk to FreeBSD. If you do, run: configdisk -I -D sd1 If you don't, run: configdisk -I sd1 If you don't, you also have to determine the correct boot/BIOS geometry for your disk. Do that now (doing this is not discussed here, as that is outside the scope of this document). 3. If you are NOT dedicating the entire disk to FreeBSD, press "f" to enter the fdisk editor. If you are dedicating the entire disk to FreeBSD, skip to step #4. 3a. Use the "g" ("set geometry") command to enter the correct geometry. This must be done before any slices are edited. 3b. Use the "e" ("edit slice") to add a FreeBSD slice and any other slices that you want. 3c. Press "q" ("quit to previous menu") to return to the main menu. 4. Press "d" to enter the disklabel editor. [ You can skip to step #5 if you want to allocate the entire FreeBSD slice as a single filesystem partition. However, you will have to run newfs manually to put a filesystem onto the partition. ] 4a. Use the "e" ("edit partition") command to allocate desired FreeBSD partitions. 4b. Press "q" ("quit to previous menu") to return to the main menu. 5. Press "w" ("write script") to write out your changes as a Bourne shell script. 6. Press "q" to exit the program. 7. Examine the Bourne shell script created in step #5. If it looks good, execute it to initialize and configure the disk. 8. That's it! From here, you'll have to modify /etc/fstab yourself or run mount(8) manually. REFERENCE When started, configdisk displays the drive's status, and prompts for a command. At this point, you have a choice of these commands: F Enter fdisk editor. From here, you can set the disk's geometry and edit the slice table (the "partition table", in MSDOS terminology). Note that the disk geometry must be properly set BEFORE editing the slice table, as the current disk geometry determines the legal values for each slice entry. Editing the slice table is not necessary for dedicated disks (and is disallowed by configdisk). D Enter disklabel editor. From here, you can set the disk's geometry (just like the fdisk editor), and create/modify FreeBSD partitions. Before you can enter the disklabel editor, the entire disk must be dedicated to FreeBSD, or a valid FreeBSD slice must exist or have been defined in the fdisk editor. U ("Use entire disk") Toggle between dedicating the entire disk to FreeBSD and using the slice table to allocate a portion of it. Dedicating the entire disk has the advantage of using all of the available disk space (no space is wasted due to geometry restrictions). This will also cause any and all existing data on the entire disk to be lost. This will also make the disk unusable and unshareable with other operating systems, as the disk slice table (the "partition table", in MSDOS terminology) will not be usable by them. Not dedicating the disk has the advantage of sharing/using the disk with other operating systems. For example, the disk could be used with both Windows 95 and FreeBSD. However, some disk space can be wasted, due to geometry restrictions. Every time this command is used to convert the disk from a dedicated FreeBSD disk to a non-dedicated one, all disklabel changes are lost. I Toggle between initializing the drive and not initializing it. WARNING: Initializing a drive will cause all data on the disk, be it FreeBSD data or Windows 95 files, to be completely lost. Initializing a drive forces the rewriting of the MBR and boot programs. If the disk is not dedicated, the slice table will be competely rewritten to reflect the state of the fdisk editor. Normally, only those slices modified in the fdisk editor are changed in the slice table; the other slices are left untouched. However, if a drive is initialized, all slices are set to the state displayed in the fdisk editor (for non-dedicated disks). W Write configuration script. This is the command that actually writes the Bourne shell script that does the work. Note that, unless this command is chosen, no script is written. Q Quit program. NOTES, NON-FEATURES, AND BUGS The fdisk and disklabel editors have not yet been documented. When a non-dedicated disk is specified, slices must definitely end on cylinder boundaries. However, the slice start requirements are unclear. Currently, configdisk requires that a slice start begin on an head boundary. This may be too restrictive. The built-in geometry calculator may not be correct for all NCR and Adaptec SCSI controllers. Is partition 'd' special (like partitions `a-c')? Currently, configdisk allows you to edit it. The generated script requires a specially-modified fdisk to work. The configdisk program is actually a perl script from h*ll. You need to have perl4 installed as /usr/bin/perl, and you need a couple of standard perl libraries (which should already be installed under /usr/share/perl). Currently, configdisk uses the disk's current settings (slice table & disklabel) as a starting point. Perhaps "-I" should be the default, and the current settings be used only if another option ("-c"?) is specified? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 00:58:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA10581 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.128.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA10575 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (5.57/ULTRIX-940302) id AA11420; Thu, 3 Oct 96 16:58:35 +0900 Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (5.57/ULTRIX-940909) id AA15972; Thu, 3 Oct 96 16:58:33 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (VzMMQkdoPuEATVK2uw7tZ3wgMu4nYiIH@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.33.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W3/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id RAA06463; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:00:53 +0900 Message-Id: <199610030800.RAA06463@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: PS/2 mouse driver Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 17:00:53 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. This is the first time for me to send an e-mail to this mailing list. I have been using FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE for a few months by now. Recently I obtained a PS/2 mouse. I recompiled the kernel with the `psm' driver, and found the driver sometimes fails to recognize my mouse upon boot up. As I remember troubles with the `psm' device are discussed in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd from time to time, I decided to do some programming to improve the driver. Here is the result of my little effort. I attached the uuencoded gzip'ed source file at the end of this mail. If you kindly test the driver and find it useful, I would be pleased. Few notes: 1. The file can be compiled under 2.1-RELEASE. I expect it is also OK with 2.1.5-RELEASE, though I haven't verified. I also incorporated the code found in `psm.c' in the `-current' tree, in the hope that this driver can be tested under the latest development environment. Define `PSM_CURRENT' to compile the driver for the `-current' tree (see comments near the top of the file). However, since I don't run the `-current' system, I can't guarantee if it actually works... 2. The probe routine (`psmprobe()') will succeed only when the PS/2 mouse port exists AND a mouse is attached to the port. It will fail if the port doesn't exist, or the port exists but a mouse doesn't. 3. If a PS/2 mouse exists and the driver still cannot find it, there is a possible timing problem. It appears it takes awhile to reset the PS/2 mouse, and keyboard too, for that matter (I don't know exactly how long we should wait). You may need to increase `PSM_RESETDELAY' or `PSM_MAXWAIT' to make the probe routine to find your mouse. 4. The `PSM_NORESET' option, which will exclude the code to reset the mouse while probing the mouse, is gone. I understand this option was for systems which hang the keyboard if the mouse reset command is issued. I now included the code which, I hope, will recover the keyboard after the failed mouse reset (because a mouse doesn't exist). This is a kludge, but it works with motherboards with which I tested the driver. 5. The `PSM_DEBUG' option controls debug output. When defined to 0, no debug information is logged. When defined to 1 or 2, debug information will be logged, using the `syslog' facility, at the `LOG_DEBUG' level (see comments near the top of the file). Currently `PSM_DEBUG' is defined as 1 by default. I will change this default to 0 once my code is found to work. 6. I tested the driver with the following motherboards: ASUS P/I-P55TP4XE - This motherboard has the PS/2 mouse port. SHUTTLE HOT-433 - This motherboard doesn't have the mouse port, but I suspect the keyboard controller may support the port, because the manual says there is a version of the board with the mouse port. I also tested the probe logic with the following machines by writing a test program under DOS :-) Dell 310 - An old, 386-based machine without the mouse port. Dell 466/M - It has the mouse port. If you have any questions or suggestions, do contact me. Please note that I don't subscribe to this mailing list; you have to send e-mail to me directly. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kazutaka YOKOTA Dept. of Mechanical Systems Eng., Faculty of Eng., Utsunomiya University, 2753 Ishii-machi, Utsunomiya-shi, Tochigi 321, JAPAN. 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Neal" Cc: Terry Lambert , avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed), jrg@demon.net, mrg@eterna.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Oct 1996 01:08:55 EDT." <1.5.4.32.19961003050855.006b6f70@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 10:43:41 +0200 Message-Id: <9968.844332221@heron.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be> From: Jim Reid Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Kevin" == "Kevin P Neal" writes: Kevin> It would actually break FFS for a partition to grow Kevin> underneath it? Not necessarily. For those who are unfortunate to have LVM, there is a utility called extendfs which allows you to expand the filesystem - here it's just ufs, but I suppose would work for vxfs too - into new logical volumes. Kevin> Would newfs_ffs (or whatever) know which devices could Kevin> support the filesystem? How would that work? I guess it works by having some kernel struct which has a number of block counts and disk devices and offsets which comprise each logical volume. Kevin> Lemmie see if I have this straight: 1) User program decides Kevin> to grow/shrink a partition. 2) User program tells Kevin> partition to grow/shrink 3) Virtual partition asks for the Kevin> permission of the filesystem 4) Assuming they agree, they Kevin> work together somehow to do whatever -- Filesystem must Kevin> make sure there is enough space available to shrink down Kevin> into. Non-resizable filesystems would just veto the whole Kevin> shebang. Not exactly. In the LVM paradigm, physical volumes - disks or bits of disks can be added and removed from a logical volume more or less at will. [Obviously there are sanity checks that the PV isn't used.] Once you've added a new PV to the logical volume, extendfs is used to diddle the superblocks so the filesystem can use the new space. Kevin> Ok. Doesn't this assume that whatever is sitting on top of Kevin> the partition is a filesystem? What if it isn't? What if a Kevin> database or something or other is sitting on top? Would Kevin> resizing be possible? Wouldn't the mechanism of Kevin> communicating the resize be different because of the user Kevin> program hitting the disk instead of going through a Kevin> filesystem? It depends on what it's being used for. Kevin> Third case: What do you do about resizing a swap partition? This is hardly different from adding an extra swap device. Just add a vnode which points at the extra space and use swapon to make the kernel use it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 02:08:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA16501 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isbalham (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA16495 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id KAA00503; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:06:04 +0100 Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:38:23 +0100 X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:38:49 +0100 To: Terry Lambert From: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Subject: Re: XDrawString Cc: jmacd@cs.berkeley.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 2:48 pm 2/10/96, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >My results showed that XDrawString on a 2048 character string, >> >where only 50 or so are on-screen takes much longer than the same >> >call with only the visible length supplied. >>[etc] > >I personally expect the Xlib to imply a cliprect on the data it sends >to the X server.[etc] If *someone* isn't clipping, then things is surely broke. Trouble is, when there is clipping the algorithm seems to go exponential if one end of the draw is in the window and the other is far away. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 02:26:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA17599 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA17592 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id TAA08955; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:21:33 +1000 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:21:33 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610030921.TAA08955@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, garycorc@mail.idt.net Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >> >Subject: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. >> >> This should probably be To: freebsd-current :-). > >Ummm... I don't have the time to run -current, but I *am* interested >in discussions on general hacker issues like interrupt latencies and >real-time code. These issues could apply to new code/drivers written -hackers is too noisy. I don't have time to read it, and should stop reading it :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 03:06:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA18544 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA18538 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05624; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:06:08 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199610031006.DAA05624@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) cc: jmacd@cs.berkeley.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XDrawString In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Oct 1996 08:38:49 BST." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5617.844337166.1@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 03:06:07 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > At 2:48 pm 2/10/96, Terry Lambert wrote: > >> >My results showed that XDrawString on a 2048 character string, > >> >where only 50 or so are on-screen takes much longer than the same > >> >call with only the visible length supplied. > >>[etc] > > > >I personally expect the Xlib to imply a cliprect on the data it sends > >to the X server.[etc] > > If *someone* isn't clipping, then things is surely broke. Trouble is, when > there is clipping the algorithm seems to go exponential if one end of the > draw is in the window and the other is far away. For the case in point, I'd like to see X add character width's up until one run's off the screen, then render the clipped string, then send the clipped rectangle to the server. Well, I'll settle for doing the work myself. -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 03:07:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA18581 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dawn.ww.net (root@dawn.ww.net [193.124.73.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA18555 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alexis@localhost) by dawn.ww.net (8.7.5/alexis 2.5) id OAA17905; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:05:28 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:05:28 +0400 (MSD) From: Alexis Yushin Message-Id: <199610031005.OAA17905@dawn.ww.net> To: brandon@glacier.cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: splash-page on bootup.. Newsgroups: wildwind.lists.freebsd-hackers Organization: The Wild Wind Communications X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <522lho$g8l@sunset.ww.net> you wrote: > On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Jim Durham wrote: > > Amen... can you imagine what would happen if the system didn't > > boot? No boot...no reading var/log/messages to see what happened.. > Uhrm, it was nestled at the end of a paragraph, but I figured it would > work like 95 where a simply hitting 'tab' or something similar would > toggle the two windows. Put the splash screen on ttyv1 for example and switch there. If you want your console back switch to ttyv0? alexis -- Yesterday don't matter when it's gone From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 03:31:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA19570 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from copernicus.iafrica.com (root@copernicus.iafrica.com [196.31.1.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA19565 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by copernicus.iafrica.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA05233; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:30:24 +0200 (SAT) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:30:24 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: John Polstra cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( In-Reply-To: <199610030121.SAA13498@austin.polstra.com> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan/ X-Alternate-Address: khetan@uunet.co.za X-Alternate-Address2: kg@iafrica.com X-Alternate-Address3: gjjkhe01@sonnenberg.uct.ac.za X-Alternate-Address4: khetan@chain.iafrica.com X-Comment: Telkom sucks huge! X-IRC-nick: chain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, John Polstra wrote: >If you have some "extra" files in your tree that should not be >there at all, CVSup won't remove them. Like sup, it will only I presume those extra files are those files not defined by CVS at all ? In my case, if I have the tree in a state before some files are deleted, and then use CVSup to get the new tree, will it delete those files ? >case) will be handled OK. Ok, you answered my question before I asked it :-) >Here's another possibility. I have heard reports that "rsync" (see >"net/rsync" in the ports collection) works well for recovering a >severely damaged tree. You might want to take a look at that. The tree isn't severely damaged (at least I don't think it is). If it is, it'll be far easier to simply tarball the whole thing and re-download it. Good idea though. >Good luck fixing things up! Thank you, and thank you to everyone else who posted with good suggestions. --- Khetan Gajjar [ http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan] I'm a FreeBSD User! [ http://www.freebsd.org] UUNet Internet Africa [0800-030-002 & help@iafrica.com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 04:09:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA21379 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA21373 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA00306; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610031109.EAA00306@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Bruce Evans cc: garycorc@mail.idt.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no Subject: HyperMail? (was Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Oct 1996 19:21:33 +1000." <199610030921.TAA08955@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 04:09:09 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Bruce Evans : > >> >To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > >> >Subject: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. > >> > >> This should probably be To: freebsd-current :-). > > > >Ummm... I don't have the time to run -current, but I *am* interested > >in discussions on general hacker issues like interrupt latencies and > >real-time code. These issues could apply to new code/drivers written > > -hackers is too noisy. I don't have time to read it, and should stop > reading it :-). Has anyone thought of archiving mail in html format with a tool similar to Hypermail?? Hypermail is a mail to html converter. Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 04:16:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA21734 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA21711; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minnow.render.com (minnow.render.com [193.195.178.1]) by minnow.render.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA25763; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:35:20 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:35:19 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead In-Reply-To: <199610021740.MAA01329@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, John Dyson wrote: > > > > You could maintain a number of 'pending readahead' structures indexed by > > vnode and block number. Each call to cluster_read would check for a > > pending readahead by hashing. For efficiency, keep a pointer to the last > > readahead structure used by cluster_read in the vnode in place of the > > existing in-vnode readahead data. Should be no slower than the current > > system for single process reads and it saves 4 bytes per vnode :-). > > > Pretty cool idea. I am remembering now that this deficiency in our read > ahead code is well known. This might be something really good for 2.3 or > 3.1 :-). (Unless someone else wants to implement it -- hint hint :-)). On the subject of saving memory, I firmly believe that signficant performance improvements can be made just by reducing the memory footprint of algorithms. In our 3D graphics work, we have found that making important datastructures fit into cache lines (and using an aligning allocator to make sure that they start on cache line boundaries) can improve performance by as much as 20%. When future processors from Intel will have clock speeds of 400Mhz and above but have a 75Mhz memory bus to level 2 cache, this will become even more important towards the end of '97 and beyond. The size of a piece of software and its memory usage patterns will dominate its performance profile. Maybe we need a 'Campaign for Small Software' :-). -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 734 3761 FAX: +44 171 734 6426 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 04:41:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA22561 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.research.megasoft.com (gw.research.megasoft.com [206.230.35.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA22556 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) id HAA19750; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com(192.168.1.2) by goffer.research.megasoft.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019746; Thu Oct 3 07:34:08 1996 Received: by goffette.research.megasoft.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA19310; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:34:13 -0400 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:34:13 -0400 Message-Id: <199610031134.HAA19310@goffette.research.megasoft.com> From: C Matthew Curtin To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Cc: ache@nagual.ru, dfr@render.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vx device broken in 21.1.5? In-Reply-To: <199609202011.WAA14704@gvr.win.tue.nl> References: <199609172117.RAA00608@goffette.research.megasoft.com> <199609202011.WAA14704@gvr.win.tue.nl> X-Face: "&>g(&eGr?u^F:nFihL%BsyS1[tCqG7}I2rGk4{aKJ5I_5A\*6RYn4"N.`1pPF9LO!Fa<(gj:12)?=uP2l01e10Gij"7j&-)torL^iBrNf\s7PDLm=rf[PjxtSbZ{J(@@j"q2/iV9^Mx>>>> "Guido" == Guido van Rooij writes: Guido> Indeed that's what i found out. I don't know however what is Guido> not working. The linux driver does still work... Actually, the Linux driver probably works again (i.e., it broke, and it was just fixed with a new driver more quickly.) BSDI also has a working driver for the card. I also have a question... I've got 3c595s (three of 'em) in a machine here and suddenly started to see the following errors. Any clue what they mean, why I'm getting them, and how to make 'em go away? Also, I want to hardwire the irqs on these cards (in the kernel) to keep them from sharing an irq. Can this be done simply by adding "irq x" to the "device vx"... line? vx0 <3Com 3c595 Fast EtherLink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 14 on pci0:11 utp[*UTP*] address %D vx1 <3Com 3c595 Fast EtherLink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 14 on pci0:15 utp[*UTP*] address %D vx2 <3Com 3c595 Fast EtherLink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 15 on pci0:19 utp[*UTP*] address %D -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com Megasoft, Inc Chief Scientist http://www.research.megasoft.com/people/cmcurtin/ I speak only for myself. Hacker Security Firewall Crypto PGP Privacy Unix Perl Java Internet Intranet From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 05:09:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA23484 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 05:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA23478 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 05:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA24181; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:03:48 -0400 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:03:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo X-Sender: mark@scooter.quickweb.com To: Amancio Hasty cc: Bruce Evans , garycorc@mail.idt.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no Subject: Re: HyperMail? (was Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. ) In-Reply-To: <199610031109.EAA00306@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >From The Desk Of Bruce Evans : > > >> >To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > > >> >Subject: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. > > >> > > >> This should probably be To: freebsd-current :-). > > > > > >Ummm... I don't have the time to run -current, but I *am* interested > > >in discussions on general hacker issues like interrupt latencies and > > >real-time code. These issues could apply to new code/drivers written > > > > -hackers is too noisy. I don't have time to read it, and should stop > > reading it :-). > > Has anyone thought of archiving mail in html format with a tool > similar to Hypermail?? > > Hypermail is a mail to html converter. I was archiving -hackers, -current , and -questions with hypermail for my own purposes, but the disk space disappeared quickly.... I'd certainly be willing to continue however (seeing how I just picked up a new 4 GB disk!) - but isn't freefall doing this?? If not I can turn it back on and make the URL public. Hypermail does produce a much nicer output than the archives on www.freebsd.org however. It lacks a built in indexer, but that's easy to fix. -Mark > > Enjoy, > Amancio ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 06:14:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA25512 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25494; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA00602; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:12:30 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199610031312.IAA00602@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead To: dfr@render.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:12:30 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Oct 3, 96 10:35:19 am Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On the subject of saving memory, I firmly believe that signficant > performance improvements can be made just by reducing the memory footprint > of algorithms. In our 3D graphics work, we have found that making > important datastructures fit into cache lines (and using an aligning > allocator to make sure that they start on cache line boundaries) can > improve performance by as much as 20%. > The pmap code is a perfect example of that. There are times that I have "improved" the code, and noted a net slowdown, because it has grown. Soon, I intend to chop out another 1-2k out of pmap.o. Smaller is definitely better sometimes. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 06:26:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA25993 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Collatz.McRCIM.McGill.EDU (root@Holo.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA [132.206.78.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA25977 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (root@localhost) by 6096 on Collatz.McRCIM.McGill.EDU (8.6.12 Mouse 1.0) id JAA06096; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:25:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:25:47 -0400 From: der Mouse Message-Id: <199610031325.JAA06096@Collatz.McRCIM.McGill.EDU> To: hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How can you have an LFS root partition (never mind the LVM stuff), > and still be able to boot on, say, a Sun3? Perhaps you can't, which would mean only that you can't have an LVM root on a sun3. > I mean, doesn't the boot prom have to be able to read the file system > to load the loader program? No. > Where are you going to stuff boot.sun3? Now, I don't know about other machines, but the sun3 I do know a bit about. (This also is true of the sparc, at least all sparcs I've ever looked at the boot mechanisms of.) The PROMs know enough about the disklabel to locate the start of the desired boot partition. They then load a bootstrap from the beginning of that partition (sectors 1 through 15, IIRC) and hand control over to it. The PROMs don't know a thing about the filesystem. That knowledge is all in later-stage bootblocks. In the NetBSD paradigm (and in more recent SunOS - 3.5 was the last SunOS I used that didn't work this way), the bootblock loaded by the PROM just has a list of disk block numbers wired into it, set by installboot when the bootblock was installed. It loads these blocks, trusting that they're the correct ones. _That_ program knows enough about the filesystem to load /netbsd (/vmunix under SunOS). In short, provided we stick with mostly-SunOS disklabels, the sun3 and sparc ports can use damn near anything for a root filesystem layout, as long as someone writes bootblocks that can grok it. der Mouse mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca 01 EE 31 F6 BB 0C 34 36 00 F3 7C 5A C1 A0 67 1D From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 06:28:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA26105 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26100 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pat.idt.unit.no by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA16620 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:28:20 -0700 Received: from idt.unit.no (hyll.idt.unit.no [129.241.200.3]) by pat.idt.unit.no (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15348; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:14:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610031314.PAA15348@pat.idt.unit.no> To: bde@zeta.org.au Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:37:08 +1000" References: <199610030437.OAA32243@godzilla.zeta.org.au> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.03 on Emacs 19.31.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 15:14:31 +0200 From: Tor Egge Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >But something was causing an RTC interrupt to be lost. I've only > >experienced it while profiling a program (while the RTC interrupt rate > >is 1024 Hz), thus I can only assume that the RTC does not like a > >latency longer than the interval between two RTC interrupts. > > Please check this. Disable interrupts for a second or two and see if > the RTC stops. Inserting an INTRDIS(IRQ8) in the load part of an lkm, and an INTREN(IRQ8) in the unload part showed that RTC interrupts stopped while the device was loaded, but resumed as soon as the device was unloaded. Inserting a loop taking 4 seconds while interrupts were disabled in the load part of the lkm just froze the system for 4 seconds, but RTC interrupts resumed afterwards. I no longer see this as a latency issue with regard to the RTC. Something else was causing one RTC interrupt to be lost. - Tor Egge From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 06:33:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA26499 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26459 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA18975; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:33:31 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA02947; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:33:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA26494; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:52:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610031252.OAA26494@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: rand() and random() To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:52:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610022202.PAA04883@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 2, 96 03:02:42 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > I'm curious why rand() still exists. Everyone knows its really > > bad. Why not just ditch it in favor of random()? > > Because it is ANSI conrfmant (man rand). That doesn't mean it would be impossible to do int rand(void) { return (int)random(); } The wrapping is needed since one function is declared to return int, while the other returns long. Other than this, both have the same range for the result (RAND_MAX actually is (2**32)-1), so i fail to see why random() should _not_ match the ANSI requirements. (From random(3):) Unlike srand, srandom() does not return the old seed; the reason for ^^^^^^^^^^^^ this is that the amount of state information used is much more than a single word. (Two other routines are provided to deal with restart- The marked phrase is wrong. srand() doesn't return the old seed either, at least not in the ANSI version. ISRT that it used to return the old seed in obsolete implementations. ing/changing random number generators). Like rand(3), however, random() will by default produce a sequence of numbers that can be duplicated by calling srandom() with `1' as the seed. ...so this also matches the ANSI requirements. There is absolutely no reason for still supporting the old junk. The extended interface of srandom() doesn't hurt, since extensions are, of course, possible. I vote for killing the old rand(). Too many things (in particular, games) behave very stupid with it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 06:38:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA26947 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26940 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA18946; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:33:07 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA02928; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:33:07 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA26337; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:30:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610031230.OAA26337@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:30:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: khetan@iafrica.com (Khetan Gajjar) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Khetan Gajjar at "Oct 3, 96 00:17:44 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Khetan Gajjar wrote: > [chain] /usr/home/ncvs# ctm ../ctm/cvs-cur.2522.gz > DM: ports/mail/mailagent exists. > DM: ports/mail/mailagent/files exists. > DM: ports/mail/mailagent/patches exists. > DM: ports/mail/mailagent/pkg exists. > DM: ports/mail/mailagent/scripts exists. > FN: CVSROOT/commitlogs/CVSROOT md5 mismatch. > FN: CVSROOT/commitlogs/CVSROOT edit fails. > Exit(120) > [chain] /usr/home/ncvs# > > I think I might have smoked the tree :-( Now, I'm a dial up user, so I > don't want to re-download the whole tree again. Is there any way for me to > take the tree back to say, cvs-cur.2450 and apply all the deltas since > then ? Apart from CVSup, what i'm doing in this case is: remove the entire CVS tree, extract it from my last backup tape, and re-apply the CTM deltas. Takes an hour perhaps, but doesn't cost me any online money. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 06:57:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA28117 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA28092; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minnow.render.com (minnow.render.com [193.195.178.1]) by minnow.render.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA26130; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:54:58 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:54:56 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead In-Reply-To: <199610031312.IAA00602@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > > On the subject of saving memory, I firmly believe that signficant > > performance improvements can be made just by reducing the memory footprint > > of algorithms. In our 3D graphics work, we have found that making > > important datastructures fit into cache lines (and using an aligning > > allocator to make sure that they start on cache line boundaries) can > > improve performance by as much as 20%. > > > The pmap code is a perfect example of that. There are times that I have > "improved" the code, and noted a net slowdown, because it has grown. > Soon, I intend to chop out another 1-2k out of pmap.o. Smaller is > definitely better sometimes. You may find that increasing the size of struct pv_entry to 32 bytes and arranging get_pv_entry to return new pv_entries on 32 byte boundaries will improve performance for operations that traverse pmaps which contain a large number of entries. Making structures like this fit cleanly into cache lines reduces the average number of cache misses needed to access a large quantity of data. If in addition, you arrange those functions to access the struct pv_entry sequentially from start to end, you will benefit from the fact that the 8 words of a cache line are read sequentially after a cache miss by the pentium and are available for use by instructions as soon as they are read, i.e. you can use the first couple of words in the cache line while the processor reads the rest. Looking at pmap_remove_entry() it seems to do this already but you can only benefit from it if the structure starts on a cache line boundary. -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 734 3761 FAX: +44 171 734 6426 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 07:12:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29029 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA29022 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA12090; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610031411.HAA12090@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Tor Egge cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Oct 1996 15:14:31 +0200." <199610031314.PAA15348@pat.idt.unit.no> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 07:11:46 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I no longer see this as a latency issue with regard to the RTC. >Something else was causing one RTC interrupt to be lost. I used to see a problem with using "DUMMY_NOPS" where the RTC interrupt acknowledge would be missed due to the time-delay constraints not being met. If you're using DUMMY_NOPS, then this could be your problem. If you're not, then the problem could be caused by your system eating the inb(0x84) without adding enough delay. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 07:16:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29300 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.126]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA29288; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA02166; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:16:14 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:16:14 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199610031416.XAA02166@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:38:53 +0900 (JST). <199610020538.OAA00439@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.19] 1995-07/21(Fri) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199610020538.OAA00439@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> writes: >> PAO-961002 for 2.2-960801-SNAP is now available. The URL is >> "ftp://ryukyu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD/PAO/PAO-961002.tar.gz". Sorry I've packed wrong 2.2-960801-SNAP/README file in this file. I'll put new package and unpackaed files in this directory. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp hosokawa@jp.FreeBSD.org WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 07:19:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29431 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA29424 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id AAA17572; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:08:55 +1000 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:08:55 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610031408.AAA17572@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I no longer see this as a latency issue with regard to the RTC. >Something else was causing one RTC interrupt to be lost. It may have been a software bug. I just implemented lazy masking of interrupts (don't make in the ICU except in the unusual event that an interrupt repeats while it is being handled) and had problems because I forgot about the intN instructions in icu.s. The intN's were interpreted as repeated interrupts and not serviced. You could easily have a similar bug in attempting to not service the same clock interrupt twice. Statistics for lazy masking on an isa system: interrupt total repeated clk0 irq0 2052707 5107 rtc0 irq8 2610866 26 fdc0 irq6 2 0 sc0 irq1 1739 20 lpt0 irq7 1 0 wd0 irq14 6339295 2448 ed0 irq15 411078 2761 Lazy masking saved a whole 17 seconds out of 5.5 hours of uptime :-). The relatively large number of wd0 irqs is for testing something that involved too many synchronous metadata updates. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 07:48:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA00954 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA00948 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pat.idt.unit.no (pat.idt.unit.no [129.241.103.5]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA27972 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from idt.unit.no (hyll.idt.unit.no [129.241.200.3]) by pat.idt.unit.no (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17866; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:37:49 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610031437.QAA17866@pat.idt.unit.no> To: dg@root.com Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Oct 1996 07:11:46 -0700" References: <199610031411.HAA12090@root.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.03 on Emacs 19.31.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 16:37:48 +0200 From: Tor Egge Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I no longer see this as a latency issue with regard to the RTC. > >Something else was causing one RTC interrupt to be lost. > > I used to see a problem with using "DUMMY_NOPS" where the RTC interrupt > acknowledge would be missed due to the time-delay constraints not being met. > If you're using DUMMY_NOPS, then this could be your problem. If you're not, > then the problem could be caused by your system eating the inb(0x84) without > adding enough delay. All NOPs disappeared in revision 1.7 of /sys/i386/include/asmacros.h. (I'm running 2.2-current). - Tor Egge From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 07:57:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA01343 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA01337 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA02666 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:51:57 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Thu, 3 Oct 96 17:51:57 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id SAA00772; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:51:30 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199610031451.SAA00772@nagual.ru> Subject: Re: rand() and random() In-Reply-To: <199610031252.OAA26494@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at "Oct 3, 96 02:52:26 pm" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:51:29 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I vote for killing the old rand(). Too many things (in particular, > games) behave very stupid with it. random() isn't good enough too. However the problem is different with rand() case. The problem is that srandom() not accomodate startup value well, i.e. produce the same _few_ sequences for _many_ different startup values. I remember bug report related to this problem (with suggested random() replacement) somewhere in freebsd mailing lists long time ago. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 07:58:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA01410 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from copernicus.iafrica.com (root@copernicus.iafrica.com [196.31.1.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA01391 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by copernicus.iafrica.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA08119; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:57:49 +0200 (SAT) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:57:46 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( In-Reply-To: <199610031230.OAA26337@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan/ X-Alternate-Address: khetan@uunet.co.za X-Alternate-Address2: kg@iafrica.com X-Alternate-Address3: gjjkhe01@sonnenberg.uct.ac.za X-Alternate-Address4: khetan@chain.iafrica.com X-Comment: Telkom sucks huge! X-IRC-nick: chain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, J Wunsch wrote: >Apart from CVSup, what i'm doing in this case is: remove the entire >CVS tree, extract it from my last backup tape, and re-apply the CTM >deltas. Takes an hour perhaps, but doesn't cost me any online money. That's assuming I've got the tree tarballed somewhere and the ctm deltas. Now I know. I'll do that as soon as I get a complete up-to-date tree. --- Khetan Gajjar [ http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan] I'm a FreeBSD User! [ http://www.freebsd.org] UUNet Internet Africa [0800-030-002 & help@iafrica.com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 08:13:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA02144 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA02137 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17336; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610031512.IAA17336@austin.polstra.com> To: Khetan Gajjar cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Oct 1996 12:30:24 +0200." Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 08:12:58 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >If you have some "extra" files in your tree that should not be > >there at all, CVSup won't remove them. Like sup, it will only > > I presume those extra files are those files not defined by CVS at all ? Yes, exactly. For example, suppose you originally maintained your repository with sup or CTM, and you kept it up-to-date until 6 months ago. Now you decide to update your repository using CVSup. Any files in the master repository that were deleted during the last 6 months (not just moved into the Attic, but totally deleted) will be left undeleted when you run CVSup. Since this is your first run of CVSup, it has no record that those files previously existed in the repository. It knows nothing about them, and so it leaves them alone. (Maybe one of them is a letter from Mom.) Normally, files in the master repository don't get totally deleted -- they always remain, either in the Attic or in the live part of the repository. But it does happen every now and then. Usually, it happens because somebody made a mistake. E.g., somebody accidentally imports a bunch of stuff into the wrong place, and then moves it to the right place or deletes it again. (Lest anybody misunderstand, committers are not supposed to do things like that. Such repairs should be done by Peter Wemm, or at least cleared with him first.) I am planning on adding an "exact" mode to CVSup, for dealing with your kind of situation. In exact mode, CVSup will do whatever is necessary in order to make your local repository an exact mirror of the remote one. That will include deleting any extraneous files that it finds. If I can just massage it into working within the limitations of %&#@!* SOCKS first ... :-( John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 08:36:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA03291 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccs.sogang.ac.kr (ccs.sogang.ac.kr [163.239.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA03278; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr by ccs.sogang.ac.kr (8.8.0/Sogang) id AAA04190; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:31:37 +0900 (KST) Received: from localhost by cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06595; Fri, 4 Oct 96 00:34:41 KST Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:34:40 +0900 (KST) From: Heo Sung-Gwan X-Sender: heo@cslsun10 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Dyson writes: >> >> You could maintain a number of 'pending readahead' structures indexed by >> vnode and block number. Each call to cluster_read would check for a >> pending readahead by hashing. For efficiency, keep a pointer to the last >> readahead structure used by cluster_read in the vnode in place of the >> existing in-vnode readahead data. Should be no slower than the current >> system for single process reads and it saves 4 bytes per vnode :-). > >Pretty cool idea. I am remembering now that this deficiency in our read >ahead code is well known. This might be something really good for 2.3 or >3.1 :-). (Unless someone else wants to implement it -- hint hint :-)). > I suggest a new idea. The fields for read-ahead(maxra, lenra, etc) are in file structure or other structure(e.g. Doug Rabson's readahead structure) that is pointed by a new field in file structure. And vnode has a new field to contain the point to the file structure. This vnode field is filled every read system call with the point to the file structure at vn_read() in kern/vfs_vnops.c Then it is possible that the file structure is accessed through vnode in cluster_read. Because the system calls are nonpreemptive the point to the file structure in the vnode is not changed until the current read system call is finished. This method removes the hashing using vnode and block number. Is it really possible? -- Heo Sung-Gwan Dept. of Computer Science, Sogang University, Seoul, Korea. E-mail: heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 08:40:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA03496 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA03450 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id BAA19908; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:38:16 +1000 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:38:16 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610031538.BAA19908@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: rand() and random() Cc: jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Because it is ANSI conrfmant (man rand). > >That doesn't mean it would be impossible to do > >int >rand(void) >{ > return (int)random(); >} It would have to use a copy of random() so that the functions don't mess up each other's state. >The wrapping is needed since one function is declared to return int, >while the other returns long. Other than this, both have the same >range for the result (RAND_MAX actually is (2**32)-1), so i fail to >see why random() should _not_ match the ANSI requirements. The example implementation of rand() in ANSI is said to be bad. The BSD implementation is much worse because it only throws away one high bit instead of 17. We had a discussion a year or two ago about random() being bad too because srandom() uses essentially rand() to initialize things. >I vote for killing the old rand(). Too many things (in particular, >games) behave very stupid with it. Are they better with rand() replaced by (rand() % 0x7fff)? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 09:09:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA05459 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA05441 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id CAA20556; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:05:37 +1000 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:05:37 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610031605.CAA20556@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.ru, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: rand() and random() Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >random() isn't good enough too. However the problem is different >with rand() case. The problem is that srandom() not accomodate >startup value well, i.e. produce the same _few_ sequences for _many_ >different startup values. I remember bug report related to this problem >(with suggested random() replacement) somewhere in freebsd mailing >lists long time ago. Another problem with srandom() is that it only gives 2^32 startup states. I think you're supposed to use initstate() for serious work. Don't know if this gives better startup sequences. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 10:22:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA09297 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09101; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minnow.render.com (minnow.render.com [193.195.178.1]) by minnow.render.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA26614; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:18:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:18:38 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Heo Sung-Gwan cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Heo Sung-Gwan wrote: > > John Dyson writes: > >> > >> You could maintain a number of 'pending readahead' structures indexed by > >> vnode and block number. Each call to cluster_read would check for a > >> pending readahead by hashing. For efficiency, keep a pointer to the last > >> readahead structure used by cluster_read in the vnode in place of the > >> existing in-vnode readahead data. Should be no slower than the current > >> system for single process reads and it saves 4 bytes per vnode :-). > > > >Pretty cool idea. I am remembering now that this deficiency in our read > >ahead code is well known. This might be something really good for 2.3 or > >3.1 :-). (Unless someone else wants to implement it -- hint hint :-)). > > > > I suggest a new idea. The fields for read-ahead(maxra, lenra, etc) are > in file structure or other structure(e.g. Doug Rabson's readahead structure) > that is pointed by a new field in file structure. And vnode has a new field > to contain the point to the file structure. This vnode field is filled every > read system call with the point to the file structure at vn_read() > in kern/vfs_vnops.c Then it is possible that the file structure is accessed > through vnode in cluster_read. Not all the vnodes in the system are associated with file structures. The NFS server uses vnodes directly along with some other oddities like exec and coredumps. If we optimise cluster_read for normal open files, we should try and avoid pessimising it for other vnode users in the system. > > Because the system calls are nonpreemptive the point to the file structure > in the vnode is not changed until the current read system call is finished. I have vain hopes of a future kernel which is multithreading and introducing a new complication to that is not a good idea IMHO. In addition, multiple userland threads could fool a system where readaheads were calculater per-open-file. > > This method removes the hashing using vnode and block number. For the common single reader case, the vnode would cache a pointer to the readahead structure, avoiding the hash. The hash would be a simple O(1) operation anyway for the multiple reader case and so should not be a real performance problem. > > Is it really possible? A friend of mine always used to answer, 'Anything is possible, after all its only software' to that question :-). -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 734 3761 FAX: +44 171 734 6426 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 10:34:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA10184 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:34:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from central.cis.upenn.edu (CENTRAL.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.12.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA10168 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gradin.cis.upenn.edu (GRADIN.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.4.4]) by central.cis.upenn.edu (8.6.12/UPenn 1.4) with ESMTP id NAA25100 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:34:10 -0400 Received: by gradin.cis.upenn.edu id NAA10202; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:34:09 -0400 (EDT) From: gentile@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Elizabeth J Gentile) Posted-Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199610031734.NAA10202@gradin.cis.upenn.edu> Subject: PnP patch To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:34:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone tried applying the PNp patch by Sujal Patel? He makes mention of a pnp.c file which I can't seem to find. Am I supposed to create it myself? If so, where should I put it? any help is appreciated. thanks From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 10:37:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA10705 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10700 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06317; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:34:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610031734.KAA06317@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:34:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, jrg@demon.net, mrg@eterna.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961003050855.006b6f70@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Oct 3, 96 01:08:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >A FS type must be able to express a preference or deny an underlying > >media type. For instance, FFS should be permitted to prevent you > >putting it on a device which has Logical Device Attributes of > >LDA_MAY_GROW or LDA_MAY_SHRINK, since handling of these operations > >requires that the FS register a callback to allow or veto the > >operation, depending on whether or not it has handlers. > > It would actually break FFS for a partition to grow underneath it? Er. Define "break". If you mean "cause to cease functioning", no. If you mean "damage ability to function as designed", yes. The difference is subtle, since you will store and retrieve file normally (assuming you hack the on disk FS structure to add the space), but may seriously damage the efficiency with which new data can be stored or retrieved. If I partially kink a hose, it doesn't "break" it, but you don't get nearly as much water moving through the thing. > I mean, it be pretty pointless to make a partition larger than the filesystem > if the fs can't grow. Well, it won't "break" in that sense. If you don't hack the on disk FS structure, then the FS will simply ignore the space. I suppose that, technically, that's not broken either. > Hmmm. I see your point. Shrinking would be the harder case. 8-). > Would newfs_ffs (or whatever) know which devices could support the > filesystem? How would that work? Give attribute flags as a result of the logical-to-physical or the logical-to-logical translation layer(s) you interpose, and have the FS "prefer" FS's with or without particular flags. > >Similarly, JFS/NTFS/LFS/etc. which can handle changing agregation > >sizes with an LVM facility (adding or deleting PP's from the volume) > >must call back to determine allowable size change increment. I believe > >JFS requires a 4M or an 8M increment, in all cases, for instance. > > Lemmie see if I have this straight: > 1) User program decides to grow/shrink a partition. > 2) User program tells partition to grow/shrink > 3) Virtual partition asks for the permission of the filesystem > 4) Assuming they agree, they work together somehow to do whatever > -- Filesystem must make sure there is enough space available to > shrink down into. Non-resizable filesystems would just veto > the whole shebang. > > Is that the gist of it? "Work together somewhow" is probably too fuzzy a decription. Consider X window managers (like Motif) which can pich and choose vertical and horizontal "snap" increments (ie: an xterm which can only resize on a character cell boundry). It's the same thing; you provide allowable and preferred values. Preferred values are a set intersecting the set of allowable values, but potentially smaller, since the FS may say "you CAN do this, but I'd RATHER you do that". > Ok. Doesn't this assume that whatever is sitting on top of the partition > is a filesystem? What if it isn't? What if a database or something or > other is sitting on top? Would resizing be possible? Wouldn't the mechanism > of communicating the resize be different because of the user program > hitting the disk instead of going through a filesystem? You would only allow vetted changes. I there was a database (actually, a private FS for a database) there, then the change would probably not be vetted. If it's not vetted, it's disallowed (and a veto is given using the default vetting code). > Third case: What do you do about resizing a swap partition? Can the > FreeBSD VM system move swapped out pages out of the way of a resize? > How would the partition tell the VM system to move? I guess this might > be through the same system as a kernel-based filesystem. Yes. The VM system would register with the partition management framework. You need this anyway so that when a swap region is in use, you do not resize it or delete it out from under the VM system (which would be Bad). > Hmmmmm. Know of any good books on the subject? (Chris Dukes the other day > asked on the ncsu.os.linux newsgroup if anybody knew of a good class > offered by our Computer Science department. If there were any responses, they > didn't appear on the newsgroup. Hmmmmm.) (No, there is no ncsu.os.bsd. I > guess you can't have a newsgroup for, like, 3 people). Which subject? You've hit about 5 or 6 of them here. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 10:43:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA10944 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10939 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06338; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:41:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610031741.KAA06338@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: XDrawString To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:41:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jmacd@cs.berkeley.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Bob Bishop" at Oct 3, 96 08:38:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> >My results showed that XDrawString on a 2048 character string, > >> >where only 50 or so are on-screen takes much longer than the same > >> >call with only the visible length supplied. > >>[etc] > > > >I personally expect the Xlib to imply a cliprect on the data it sends > >to the X server.[etc] > > If *someone* isn't clipping, then things is surely broke. Trouble is, when > there is clipping the algorithm seems to go exponential if one end of the > draw is in the window and the other is far away. I guess it depends on whether you think that the most likely event will be: 1) Tiny bit of what is drawn is off screen 2) Most of what is drawn is off screen Case (1) would make you want to take the hit of drawing a small amount of non-visible objects that get clipped by the server as a trade for putting a clip region comparison in the inner loop. Case (2) would make you want to take the hit of putting a clip region comparison in the inner loop as a trade for draw a large amount of non-visible objects that get clipped by the server. I would think it would depend on whether you expected the programmer using the system to be careful (case 1) or sloppy (case 2). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 11:22:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA12710 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12695; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyrix.com (CYRIX.CYRIX.COM) by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA16023 (5.65c/IDA-1.5); Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:22:37 -0700 Received: from hydra.cyrix.com ([147.5.12.23]) by cyrix.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA05227; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:19:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mega.cyrix.com by hydra.cyrix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29790; Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:19:45 CDT Received: by mega.cyrix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04109; Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:19:44 CDT From: bartling@cyrix.com (Steve Bartling) Message-Id: <9610031819.AA04109@mega.cyrix.com> Subject: Re: Irwin ( exabyte 8200 ) and Freebsd 2.1.5 To: bartling@mega.cyrix.com (Steve Bartling) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:19:44 CDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9610031817.AA04092@mega.cyrix.com>; from "Steve Bartling" at Oct 3, 96 1:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, Oops, please forgive two emails :-) ... I forgot to request that you reply to me directly in addition to cc:'ing the mailing lists as I do not subscribe directly to the mailing lists. According to the Freebsd 2.1.5 documents, the st scsi tape driver has built in support for the Exabyte 8200. I have attempted to install this drive on SCSI ID 5. (Side note, the firmware revision is the generic 2618.) I have used the "expert" DOS software package that I downloaded from www.exabyte.com to test the drive under DOS. Other than a tendancy to report fairly high Rewrt and ECC percentages on the first couple of megabytes written, the drive passed all of the tests that this software provides. The Rewrt and ECC percentages will drop as you write/read more data from the drive. If you write/read enough data, the percentages average out to acceptable values. Is this typical behavior ? Oh well, I digress ... My real problem is with Freebsd 2.1.5. I have two tape drives installed. An Archive 2150s is present on SCSI ID 4. The 8200 is installed on ID 5. I created the proper devices in /dev using the "/dev/MAKEDEV st1" command. All of the proper devices were created. I rebooted just to make sure everything was clean and verified that Freebsd properly probed/detected the 8200 and attached it to the st1 interface. The Archive 2150s was also properly identified and was attached to st0. Now for the problem ... The Archive 2150s works fine. When I attempt to "tar -cvf /dev/rst1" the entire SCSI bus hangs, requiring a machine boot to clear the bus. I cannot use the st or the mt utilities to display status or set modes. When I attempt to do so, I get "Invalid Input/Output Error". Again, I can access the 2150s just fine. Hardware does not seem to be at fault since both drives are happy under DOS. Any clues ? - Steve Bartling email: bartling@cyrix.com P.S. Congrats to everyone who has contributed to Freebsd, I have been a happy user since freebsd v 0.9 :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 11:22:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA12749 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyrix.com (CYRIX.CYRIX.COM [147.5.99.99]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA12700; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydra.cyrix.com ([147.5.12.23]) by cyrix.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA05202; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:17:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mega.cyrix.com by hydra.cyrix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29567; Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:17:22 CDT Received: by mega.cyrix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04092; Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:17:20 CDT From: bartling@cyrix.com (Steve Bartling) Message-Id: <9610031817.AA04092@mega.cyrix.com> Subject: Irwin ( exabyte 8200 ) and Freebsd 2.1.5 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:17:20 CDT Cc: bartling@cyrix.com (Steve Bartling) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, According to the Freebsd 2.1.5 documents, the st scsi tape driver has built in support for the Exabyte 8200. I have attempted to install this drive on SCSI ID 5. (Side note, the firmware revision is the generic 2618.) I have used the "expert" DOS software package that I downloaded from www.exabyte.com to test the drive under DOS. Other than a tendancy to report fairly high Rewrt and ECC percentages on the first couple of megabytes written, the drive passed all of the tests that this software provides. The Rewrt and ECC percentages will drop as you write/read more data from the drive. If you write/read enough data, the percentages average out to acceptable values. Is this typical behavior ? Oh well, I digress ... My real problem is with Freebsd 2.1.5. I have two tape drives installed. An Archive 2150s is present on SCSI ID 4. The 8200 is installed on ID 5. I created the proper devices in /dev using the "/dev/MAKEDEV st1" command. All of the proper devices were created. I rebooted just to make sure everything was clean and verified that Freebsd properly probed/detected the 8200 and attached it to the st1 interface. The Archive 2150s was also properly identified and was attached to st0. Now for the problem ... The Archive 2150s works fine. When I attempt to "tar -cvf /dev/rst1" the entire SCSI bus hangs, requiring a machine boot to clear the bus. I cannot use the st or the mt utilities to display status or set modes. When I attempt to do so, I get "Invalid Input/Output Error". Again, I can access the 2150s just fine. Hardware does not seem to be at fault since both drives are happy under DOS. Any clues ? - Steve Bartling email: bartling@cyrix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 11:36:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA14854 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA14847 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id EAA07002 Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:35:33 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199610031835.EAA07002@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: PnP patch To: gentile@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Elizabeth J Gentile) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:35:33 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199610031734.NAA10202@gradin.cis.upenn.edu> from "Elizabeth J Gentile" at Oct 3, 96 01:34:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Elizabeth J Gentile writes: > Anyone tried applying the PNp patch by Sujal Patel? Once .. against a 2.1.5-stable system with a 3Com ethernet card in PnP mode. It worked too :-) > He makes mention of a pnp.c file which I can't seem to find. Am I > supposed to create it myself? If so, where should I put it? any help is > appreciated. The patch contains this file and the associated header file, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 11:56:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15673 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.gaianet.net (earth.gaianet.net [206.171.98.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15665 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vince@localhost) by earth.gaianet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA02625; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:55:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: problem from installation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings everyone, I need some help from a installtion problem... I have a Western Digital EIDE 1.6 GIG as the first drive and a Maxtor 2.0 GIG EIDE as the second drive.... My FreeBSD is using the entire drive on the Maxtor and booted fine before I installed the Western Digital using the FreeBSD setup disk... The problem is that during installation, I selected Novice and boot manager and it asks which devices and I specified wd0a and wd1a but I only did the partition on wd0a and FreeBSD newsfs and copied the stuff to wd0a but for some reason, it messed up wd1a. I didn't have the rest of the disks except the root, boot and fixit floppies so I was originally going to copy the data from wd1a to wd0a but when I tried to boot wd1a, I saw the bootstrap and it just hanged the machine afterwards.... Booted using the boot floppy and the fixit disk and mount /dev/wd1a gave me a Incorrect Super Block. I did a fsck and it said CANNOT READ BLOCK 16-28 or something and fdisk /dev/wd1a and it said invalid fdisk partition table. Is there anything I can do at all to fix this? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Vince vince@earth.gaianet.net GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking System Adminstrator From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 14:04:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA23422 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23410 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA07079; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:00:34 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199610032100.OAA07079@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: Bruce Evans Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rand() and random() In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Oct 1996 01:38:16 +1000." <199610031538.BAA19908@godzilla.zeta.org.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7072.844376431.1@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 14:00:32 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Because it is ANSI conrfmant (man rand). > > > >That doesn't mean it would be impossible to do > > > >int > >rand(void) > >{ > > return (int)random(); > >} > > It would have to use a copy of random() so that the functions don't > mess up each other's state. > > >The wrapping is needed since one function is declared to return int, > >while the other returns long. Other than this, both have the same > >range for the result (RAND_MAX actually is (2**32)-1), so i fail to > >see why random() should _not_ match the ANSI requirements. > > The example implementation of rand() in ANSI is said to be bad. The > BSD implementation is much worse because it only throws away one high > bit instead of 17. We had a discussion a year or two ago about > random() being bad too because srandom() uses essentially rand() to > initialize things. > > >I vote for killing the old rand(). Too many things (in particular, > >games) behave very stupid with it. > > Are they better with rand() replaced by (rand() % 0x7fff)? The reason I originally sent this mail is that I had been showing the Gimp authors something with their new version dated yesterday, I clicked on the "about dialog", which has a randomly disolved-in image. Well, the image materializes not randomly, but like vertical blinds gradually closing, because the rand() function is so terrible. Also a few of their plug-ins use rand() (because rand() is available everywhere, while random() isn't), and display extremeley terrible effects, (for example, layer-dissolve, which is supposed to be completely random, makes a bunch of stripes through an image). Having a bad rand() function is killing the "portability" of these applications. This gave them fuel in their ongoing battle to convince me to start running Linux. -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 14:20:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA25398 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25372; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06789; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:18:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610032118.OAA06789@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: vnode and cluster read-ahead To: dfr@render.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:18:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: heo@cslsun10.sogang.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Oct 3, 96 06:18:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I suggest a new idea. The fields for read-ahead(maxra, lenra, etc) > > are in file structure or other structure(e.g. Doug Rabson's readahead > > structure) that is pointed by a new field in file structure. And > > vnode has a new field to contain the point to the file structure. > > This vnode field is filled every read system call with the point > > to the file structure at vn_read() in kern/vfs_vnops.c Then it is > > possible that the file structure is accessed through vnode in > > cluster_read. > > Not all the vnodes in the system are associated with file structures. The > NFS server uses vnodes directly along with some other oddities like exec > and coredumps. If we optimise cluster_read for normal open files, we > should try and avoid pessimising it for other vnode users in the system. To deal with this, you would have to add a "read ahead hints parameter" to the thing, and for NFS, pass one that will result in no change in the algorithm. This might be a good thing, but it would require minor changes to huge amounts of kernel code. In addition, it is not clear that the reverse mapping could be successful; you could change a vnode pointer on call down, but it would mean that you have destroyed call reentrancy for the interface, since reentering on the same vnode would potentially blow the same field before the downcall code could use it. Again, moving to a parameter instead of a vnode encoding would fix this, at possibly unacceptable cost. > I have vain hopes of a future kernel which is multithreading and > introducing a new complication to that is not a good idea IMHO. In > addition, multiple userland threads could fool a system where readaheads > were calculater per-open-file. I agree. In addition, moving to an async call gate to implement threading, where you make the same call through a different trap entry point, and potentially blocking operations automagically generate an async context record plus a context switch, would definitely tickle this problem. > > This method removes the hashing using vnode and block number. > > For the common single reader case, the vnode would cache a pointer to the > readahead structure, avoiding the hash. The hash would be a simple O(1) > operation anyway for the multiple reader case and so should not be a real > performance problem. I agree again. You either trust cache locality to work, or we might as well through out all caching, since we should measure all algorithms by the same yardstick. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 14:21:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA25465 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25457; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyrix.com (CYRIX.CYRIX.COM [147.5.99.99]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA28479 ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydra.cyrix.com ([147.5.12.23]) by cyrix.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA06577; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:12:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mega.cyrix.com by hydra.cyrix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15702; Thu, 3 Oct 96 16:12:06 CDT Received: by mega.cyrix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04408; Thu, 3 Oct 96 16:12:04 CDT Received: by mega.cyrix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04092; Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:17:20 CDT From: bartling@cyrix.com (Steve Bartling) Message-Id: <9610031817.AA04092@mega.cyrix.com> Subject: Irwin ( exabyte 8200 ) and Freebsd 2.1.5 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 13:17:20 CDT Cc: bartling@cyrix.com (Steve Bartling) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, According to the Freebsd 2.1.5 documents, the st scsi tape driver has built in support for the Exabyte 8200. I have attempted to install this drive on SCSI ID 5. (Side note, the firmware revision is the generic 2618.) I have used the "expert" DOS software package that I downloaded from www.exabyte.com to test the drive under DOS. Other than a tendancy to report fairly high Rewrt and ECC percentages on the first couple of megabytes written, the drive passed all of the tests that this software provides. The Rewrt and ECC percentages will drop as you write/read more data from the drive. If you write/read enough data, the percentages average out to acceptable values. Is this typical behavior ? Oh well, I digress ... My real problem is with Freebsd 2.1.5. I have two tape drives installed. An Archive 2150s is present on SCSI ID 4. The 8200 is installed on ID 5. I created the proper devices in /dev using the "/dev/MAKEDEV st1" command. All of the proper devices were created. I rebooted just to make sure everything was clean and verified that Freebsd properly probed/detected the 8200 and attached it to the st1 interface. The Archive 2150s was also properly identified and was attached to st0. Now for the problem ... The Archive 2150s works fine. When I attempt to "tar -cvf /dev/rst1" the entire SCSI bus hangs, requiring a machine boot to clear the bus. I cannot use the st or the mt utilities to display status or set modes. When I attempt to do so, I get "Invalid Input/Output Error". Again, I can access the 2150s just fine. Hardware does not seem to be at fault since both drives are happy under DOS. Any clues ? - Steve Bartling email: bartling@cyrix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 3 17:08:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA12431 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isbalham (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA12420 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 17:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id BAA03495; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:06:54 +0100 Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:00:47 +0100 X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:01:13 +0100 To: Terry Lambert From: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Subject: Re: XDrawString Cc: jmacd@cs.berkeley.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:41 am 3/10/96, Terry Lambert wrote: >[earlier stuff removed] >I guess it depends on whether you think that the most likely event >will be: > >1) Tiny bit of what is drawn is off screen > >2) Most of what is drawn is off screen > >Case (1) would make you want to take the hit of drawing a small amount >of non-visible objects that get clipped by the server as a trade for >putting a clip region comparison in the inner loop. > >Case (2) would make you want to take the hit of putting a clip region >comparison in the inner loop as a trade for draw a large amount of >non-visible objects that get clipped by the server. > >I would think it would depend on whether you expected the programmer >using the system to be careful (case 1) or sloppy (case 2). Hm. Not sure I agree with that assessment. Your average X hack knows that the server is going to clip, so "being careful" is a having a dog and barking yourself situation. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 00:57:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA28797 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (daemon@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA28792 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id RAA09715 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:56:55 +1000 Received: from pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au by ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.7.5/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id RAA24972 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:40:13 +1000 (EST) Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au [167.123.24.12]) by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA02171 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:38:20 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id HAA07974 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:39:48 GMT Message-Id: <199610040739.HAA07974@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SecureID cards & userland ppp X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 17:39:48 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My place of employment is now doing it's dialing via the SecureID stuff. For those who don't know, each persion is issued with a nifty little card & a PIN number. The card has a display on it that changes every 5 or so minutes. You dial in and are prompted for a user name. Upon entering this, you are prompted for a passcode, which is your PIN number concatenated with whatever the number is on the display of the card at that time. As you can imagine, this makes automating it rather difficult. One can't persuade it to prompt for user input partway through the login sequence. Any ideas (doing it all manually, via "term" works fine)? Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 04:22:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA11125 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA11120 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA06706; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:52:45 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199610041122.UAA06706@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: SecureID cards & userland ppp To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:52:44 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199610040739.HAA07974@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at Oct 4, 96 05:39:48 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stephen Hocking stands accused of saying: > is on the display of the card at that time. As you can imagine, this makes > automating it rather difficult. One can't persuade it to prompt for user input > partway through the login sequence. Any ideas (doing it all manually, via > "term" works fine)? /usr/ports/lang/expect > Stephen -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 04:30:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA12250 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from suntan.tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA12245 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hrriss.hprc.tandem.com by suntan.tandem.com (8.6.12/suntan5.960905) id EAA26309; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 04:30:06 -0700 Received: from hrriss.hprc.tandem.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hrriss.hprc.tandem.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17097; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:27:48 +0200 (MET DST) To: Terry Lambert Cc: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal), Chris_G_Demetriou@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, phk@critter.tfs.com, greywolf@siva.captech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Reply-To: grefen@hprc.tandem.com In-reply-to: Terry Lambert's message <199610022145.OAA04796@phaeton.artisoft.com> of Wed, 02 Oct 96 14:45:11 PDT. References: <199610022145.OAA04796@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 13:27:47 +0200 Message-ID: <17093.844428467@hrriss.hprc.tandem.com> From: Stefan Grefen Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610022145.OAA04796@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert wrote: > > I'm hoping to avoid somebody saying "But I don't WANT it to rearrange my > > data, and put it on different disks automatically!". Of course, you could > > still cut off that feature. In that event, it could still give you hints. > > Generate an event stream as a reasult of FS events, then, and export > the stream interface. > > This is generally useful for things like "Hi, I'm a browser, tell me > when the directory changes so I can redisplay it instead of polling > it every 10 seconds like a Macintosh does to an AppleTalk Server". > > The events would be interpreted by a management facility with active > components. By default, the active components would not be provided > (ie: you want that type of behaviour, you write it). > > See the AFS documentation for more information on this type of event > processing facility. Or have a look at the purposed DMIG (Data Management Interface Group) standard. (ftp://acsc.com/pub/dmig/if_doc/v2.3/). If anybody starts to implement this, count me in. Stefan > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- Stefan Grefen Tandem Computers Europe Inc. grefen@hprc.tandem.com High Performance Research Center You should never bet against anything in science at odds of more than about 10^12 to 1. -- Ernest Rutherford From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 05:40:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA15766 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 05:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA15760 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 05:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA11441; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:39:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:39:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Stephen Hocking cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SecureID cards & userland ppp In-Reply-To: <199610040739.HAA07974@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Stephen Hocking wrote: > My place of employment is now doing it's dialing via the SecureID stuff. For > those who don't know, each persion is issued with a nifty little card & a PIN > number. The card has a display on it that changes every 5 or so minutes. You > dial in and are prompted for a user name. Upon entering this, you are prompted > for a passcode, which is your PIN number concatenated with whatever the number > is on the display of the card at that time. As you can imagine, this makes > automating it rather difficult. One can't persuade it to prompt for user input well, if you're using chat, i had a shell script that invoked chat with the PIN after a read command. This is a problem if the dial-in sequence takes too long and the number rolls over, but in general it works well. ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 07:55:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA23259 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA23254 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (daemon@cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08254; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:55:56 GMT Received: from auk.fsl.noaa.gov by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov with SMTP (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA128520956; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:55:56 GMT Message-Id: <32552599.214F@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 08:56:25 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.10 9000/725) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Hocking Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SecureID cards & userland ppp References: <199610040739.HAA07974@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stephen Hocking wrote: > As you can imagine, this makes > automating it rather difficult. One can't persuade it to prompt for user input > partway through the login sequence. Any ideas (doing it all manually, via > "term" works fine)? Sounds like a job for "expect". Write an expect script to spawn the term program and do as much as the login as possible. When it gets to the variable part, have expect prompt you. Have it concatenate your PIN number with whatever you entered, send it, and once you're logged in, let it turn control over to you. expect is in the ports collection. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 09:21:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA26973 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26941; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05059 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:20:05 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA03622; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:16:03 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199610032316.AAA03622@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Irwin ( exabyte 8200 ) and Freebsd 2.1.5 To: bartling@cyrix.com (Steve Bartling) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:16:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: bartling@mega.cyrix.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9610031819.AA04109@mega.cyrix.com> from "Steve Bartling" at Oct 3, 96 01:19:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Steve Bartling wrote... > the firmware revision is the generic 2618.) Mine is: EXABYTE EXB-8200 2687 > I have used the "expert" DOS software package that I downloaded > from www.exabyte.com to test the drive under DOS. Other than > a tendancy to report fairly high Rewrt and ECC percentages on > the first couple of megabytes written, the drive passed all > of the tests that this software provides. The Rewrt and ECC > percentages will drop as you write/read more data from > the drive. If you write/read enough data, the percentages > average out to acceptable values. Is this typical behavior ? I suppose it has been cleaned? Sounds a bit like heads that clean themselves on the datatape. I've been told this can happen. > Now for the problem ... > > The Archive 2150s works fine. When I attempt to "tar -cvf /dev/rst1" > the entire SCSI bus hangs, requiring a machine boot to clear the > bus. I cannot use the st or the mt utilities to display status or > set modes. When I attempt to do so, I get "Invalid Input/Output Error". > > Again, I can access the 2150s just fine. Hardware does not seem to be > at fault since both drives are happy under DOS. Hmm, I've seen multiple 'interesting' firmware effects happen (including locking things) with Viper 2150s. Like Exabyte, Archive tended to need multiple attempts at getting good firmware. Maybe it is just the Viper/Exa combination that is destined to fail. Does the Exa work without the Vipers? Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 11:07:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA04688 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from werty.wasantara.net.id ([202.159.71.178]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04619; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bandung.wasantara.net.id (la2bdg.wasantara.net.id [202.159.69.56]) by werty.wasantara.net.id (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA01316; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:07:53 +0700 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:07:53 +0700 Message-Id: <199610041807.BAA01316@werty.wasantara.net.id> X-Sender: eka@werty.wasantara.net.id (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Eka Kelana Subject: help me... Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I want to know what these 2 macros (or function, I don't know) do when they are called within a program: splx() (and the variants like spl0, splhigh, splimp, etc) and uniqtime(...). Is there anybody here who can help me? thank's... -Eka Kelana- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 11:31:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA05589 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05583 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id UAA29260 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:31:50 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA00944 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:31:49 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03607 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:22:33 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610041822.UAA03607@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: rand() and random() To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:22:33 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610031538.BAA19908@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from Bruce Evans at "Oct 4, 96 01:38:16 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > >That doesn't mean it would be impossible to do > > > >int > >rand(void) > >{ > > return (int)random(); > >} > > It would have to use a copy of random() so that the functions don't > mess up each other's state. ...unless it's documented that they mess with it. :) It's unlikely that one program uses both functions (and if so, it's as likely that the lousy programmer would have messed rand()'s state with rand() in another place as well ;-). > >I vote for killing the old rand(). Too many things (in particular, > >games) behave very stupid with it. > > Are they better with rand() replaced by (rand() % 0x7fff)? I don't think so. But they are much better with random(). See xmine, if you wanna get a nice example. It generates totally predictable layouts when using rand(). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 11:33:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA05744 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05730 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id UAA29286; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:32:15 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA00952; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:32:00 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA03801; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:26:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610041826.UAA03801@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Possibly smoked my cvs tree :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:26:01 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: khetan@iafrica.com (Khetan Gajjar) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Khetan Gajjar at "Oct 3, 96 04:57:46 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Khetan Gajjar wrote: > >Apart from CVSup, what i'm doing in this case is: remove the entire > >CVS tree, extract it from my last backup tape, and re-apply the CTM > >deltas. Takes an hour perhaps, but doesn't cost me any online money. > > That's assuming I've got the tree tarballed somewhere and the ctm deltas. Or dump(8)'ed. That's what i'm doing, not only for the CVS tree, but also for the other bits that are valuable to me... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 12:03:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA07576 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from starfire.mn.org (root@starfire.skypoint.net [199.86.32.187]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07571 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:03:10 -0700 (PDT) From: john@starfire.mn.org Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.6.12/1.1) id OAA18711 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:03:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199610041903.OAA18711@starfire.mn.org> Subject: patch for rc and sysconfig for dedicated dial-up connections To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:03:06 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know if anyone else is using FreeBSD for this much, but here're patches to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig to delay the running of ntpdate and xntpd for a user-defined amount of time to wait for their dialup connection to come up. It isn't foolproof, of course, since I don't actually wait for ppp0 (or something) to come up, but it has been very useful to me. The results of NOT doing something like this is that the nptdate will hang until name resolution fails, or, if the host(s) are in the /etc/hosts file, it will simply fail when it can't reach the hosts, and xntpd is pretty poorly behaved when it gets "host unreachable" right out of the gate -- it will NEVER find the servers or be able to do anything useful, until is is terminated and started over once the link is available. I don't like this "dead-reckoning wait" kind of solution, but if someone can suggest a better method that is still reasonable to implement and understand, and is NO LESS LIKELY to work ;-), I'll certainly switch to it. BTW, I use two minutes (dialip=120) which has so far been somewhat more than generous, but better to be a few seconds late than a fraction early... diff -c orig/rc etc/rc *** orig/rc Fri Oct 4 13:44:36 1996 --- etc/rc Fri Oct 4 13:47:42 1996 *************** *** 159,169 **** --- 159,174 ---- # $ntpdate and $xntpdflags are imported from /etc/sysconfig. # If $ntpdate != NO, run ntpdate $ntpdate to set the date correctly. # If $xntpdflags != NO, start xntpd. + # If dialip is != NO, then delay by the value of dialip (in seconds) + # before starting either or both of ntpdate or xntpd, but allow + # system initilization to continue (or the dialup will never + # happen..). if [ "X${ntpdate}" != X"NO" -o "X${xntpdflags}" != X"NO" ]; then if [ "X${tickadjflags}" != X"NO" ]; then echo -n ' tickadj'; tickadj ${tickadjflags--Aq} fi + if [ "X${dialip}" = X"NO" ]; then if [ "X${ntpdate}" != X"NO" ]; then echo -n ' ntpdate'; ntpdate ${ntpdate} >/dev/null 2>&1 fi *************** *** 171,176 **** --- 176,190 ---- if [ "X${xntpdflags}" != X"NO" ]; then echo -n ' xntpd'; xntpd ${xntpdflags} fi + else + if [ "X${xntpdflags}" = X"NO" ]; then + echo -n ' ntpdate'; (sleep ${dialip} ; ntpdate ${ntpdate} >/dev/null 2>&1 ) & + elif [ "X${ntpdate}" = X"NO" ]; then + echo -n ' xntpd'; (sleep ${dialip} ; xntpd ${xntpdflags} )& + else + echo -n ' ntpdate xntpd'; (sleep ${dialip} ; ntpdate ${ntpdate} >/dev/null 2>&1; xntpd ${xntpdflags} ) & + fi + fi fi # $timedflags is imported from /etc/sysconfig; diff -c orig/sysconfig etc/sysconfig *** orig/sysconfig Fri Oct 4 13:45:05 1996 --- etc/sysconfig Fri Oct 4 13:45:36 1996 *************** *** 100,105 **** --- 100,110 ---- # timed flags, or NO if you don't want to start the time daemon timedflags=NO + # Set to the number of seconds to delay, for dialup IP, ntpdate and xntpd + # from starting to allow the dialup connection to be established. Set + # to NO to disable -- any other value will be assumed to be a delay. + dialip="NO" + # xntpd flags, or NO if you don't want to start the xntpd daemon xntpdflags="NO" John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 13:18:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA11658 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11652 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA01934; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:17:42 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA03269; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:17:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA04797; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 21:57:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610041957.VAA04797@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: help me... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 21:57:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: eka@werty.wasantara.net.id (Eka Kelana) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610041807.BAA01316@werty.wasantara.net.id> from Eka Kelana at "Oct 5, 96 01:07:53 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Eka Kelana wrote: > I want to know what these 2 macros (or function, I don't know) do when > they are called within a program: splx() (and the variants like spl0, > splhigh, splimp, etc) and uniqtime(...). > Is there anybody here who can help me? They `Set the [interrupt] Priority Level'. Get a good book about Unix kernels, e.g. ``The 4.4BSD Operating System. Design and Implementation.'' for an explanation about spl's. Or wait until i will have transformed Bruce Evans' formal description of them into the man page spl(9). However, while the book is already available right now, i don't make any promises for when the man page will be ready. ;-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 13:42:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA13937 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dog.farm.org (dog.farm.org [207.111.140.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13907 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id NAA23948; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:41:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199610042041.NAA23948@dog.farm.org> To: alexis@dawn.ww.net (Alexis Yushin) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: splash-page on bootup.. Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199610031005.OAA17905@dawn.ww.net> you wrote: > In article <522lho$g8l@sunset.ww.net> you wrote: > > On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Jim Durham wrote: > > > Amen... can you imagine what would happen if the system didn't > > > boot? No boot...no reading var/log/messages to see what happened.. > > Uhrm, it was nestled at the end of a paragraph, but I figured it would > > work like 95 where a simply hitting 'tab' or something similar would > > toggle the two windows. > Put the splash screen on ttyv1 for example and switch there. > If you want your console back switch to ttyv0? Good idea. Now, how about our poor MS-bought soul surviving a whole screen of memory and PCI probing messages?? (there could be even more of them assuming a couple of SCSI drives, CD-ROM, tape, and PCI ethernet). Remember, sc0 is an ISA device, and PCI is probed before ISA (at least in current). It was the syscons' job to put to logo on, right? Then, assuming abpout switching to ttyv1 for our graphics, how about /etc/rc messages? They are also left on ttyv0, yes? Great. Then, the getty starts and it would switch back to text mode? Or do we have to run special utility just to ioctl() /dev/ttyv1? Or maybe we'd just start xdm, having ttyv1 free. This way, the system would come into graphics login screen. Next would come a fancy xdm login widget. (don't forget to ask for NDC to use for proper authentication.) We already got fvwm95 in ports collection. -- "Emacs is a fine O/S, but I still prefer UNIX." - Tom Christiansen From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 14:13:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16902 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16894 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA02991; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:12:51 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA04149; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:12:50 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05583; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:11:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610042111.XAA05583@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: help me... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:11:07 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: eka@werty.wasantara.net.id Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from j at "Oct 4, 96 09:57:23 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As j wrote: > Or wait until i will have transformed Bruce Evans' formal description > of them into the man page spl(9). However, while the book is already > available right now, i don't make any promises for when the man page > will be ready. ;-) What should i say? I'm about to commit them right now... :) So you should be able to fetch the man page from the FreeBSD-current mirrors RSN. It will be /usr/src/share/man/man9/spl.9. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 14:21:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA17996 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17981 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA03163; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:20:40 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA04269; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:20:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA05735; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:16:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610042116.XAA05735@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: splash-page on bootup.. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:16:07 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: alexis@dawn.ww.net Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610042041.NAA23948@dog.farm.org> from Dmitry Kohmanyuk at "Oct 4, 96 01:41:27 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dmitry Kohmanyuk wrote: > Next would come a fancy xdm login widget. Get Tatsumi Hosokawa's fine daemon artwork. Makes a really great xdm background. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 14:38:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA19413 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.canon.com (gatekeeper.canon.com [205.227.186.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19405 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gatekeeper.canon.com; id AA26692; Fri, 4 Oct 96 14:35:00 PDT Received: from unknown(146.184.10.8) by gatekeeper.canon.com via smap (V3.1.1) id xma026682; Fri, 4 Oct 96 14:34:58 -0700 Received: by cisncdc.canon.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBB202.19208160@cisncdc.canon.com>; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:41:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Boatwright, Charles" To: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: x86 COFF with FreeBSD Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:41:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey, I hope that this isn't a "beaten to death question." I have a MSVC COFF library, from MSVC 4., I need to link it under FreeBSD. The facts. The library is C, not C++ (no name mangling). The library is portable (no OS specific calls, only standard C). The library is 32 bit. The library is HUGE > 4 Meg; > 30 000 functions. NO SOURCE. The needs: Link library with gnu ld to produce an a.out. Knowledge of problem. Used cygnus tool chain on X86-cygwin32 to begin BFD - COFF research. No success. Does anyone know how this can be done, or can it be done???? Any help, ideas, books in which to read things, places in which to bury my head (a bucket of sand???) would be excellent. TIA Charles_Boatwright@cisnc.canon.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 16:05:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA28493 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA28100 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA17923; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199610042301.RAA17923@rover.village.org> To: "Boatwright, Charles" Subject: Re: x86 COFF with FreeBSD Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Oct 1996 14:41:10 PDT." References: Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 17:01:46 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message "Boatwright, Charles" writes: : Knowledge of problem. : Used cygnus tool chain on X86-cygwin32 to begin BFD - COFF research. : No success. : : Does anyone know how this can be done, or can it be done???? Here's a place to look.... build the binutils like so: ./configure --enable-targets=i386-cygwin32-winnt,i386-unknown-freebsd2.1 make this will (unless I've fumbled fingered or forgotten the right forms for the tarets) enable the building of a binutils that groks the cygwin stuff and the freebsd stuff. Bascially, you need valid target names here, and I don't recall off the top of my head the cygwin target name. Then use ar to extract the .o's from this library. Then use objcopy to convert the .o's from the ms COFF format to FreeBSD's a.out format. However, if this isn't compatible with the cygwin stuff, I'm not sure what you can do. There may be other targets that grok this target (from the DOS world no doubt). You may have problems with things like structure sizes and padding. Also, you may have real mode vs protected mode (I hope I got the names right) opcode encoding, which I seem to recall might be a problem (and if not, then please let me know). You may also have near/far issues to deal with as well. Hmmm, maybe the best way to do this would be to use a disassembler that read in the MS library and produced .s files that FreeBSD's gas would grok. Don't know if objdump + glue would do this or not. Anyway, this will give you some things to dig around in :-). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 16:11:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29463 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s204m38.isp.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29453 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA24520 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <325598E4.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 16:08:20 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Running FreeBSD with NO CONSOLE (AT ALL) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm running freeBSD with no available sio device and no videa cards. (there IS an sio device but it's attached to the modem) this device is htrefore running with no console device. By this I mean that all calls to such routines as cnwrite cnopen etc. do not call any hardware, but return immediatly. because the cn_tab == NULL the only problem I've seen so far is that in exit() there is an unguarded call to p->pg_session->s_ttyp which is NULL. there is a check for p->pg_session->s_ttyvp and the assumption is being made that if s_ttyvp (points to /dev/console's vnode) is valid, then the tty struct in the physical device is also valid. this is not so because the TIOSCTTY ioctl sets them in different places, and one refers to teh device /dev/console, whisch always exists, and the other refers to the tty struct for the underlying physical device. I have hacked the exit code to also check s_ttyp which gets arount that problem, but it leaves open the question "What IS the right answer"? should I 1/ make a dummy console device that supplies a tty struct 2/ make the fix I've made 3/ Other suggestions? Eventually the aim is to be able to run with no console, but in some special case, attach the console to sio0 but only with some special checks. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 17:29:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA07798 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA07789; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id CAA06476; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 02:15:40 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA03244; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:09:14 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:09:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: current@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problems getting Window Manager to run, X11 hangs ... Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I'm just fiddeling around with another FreeBSD-current machine since two days. Whenever I try to start afterstep as window manager, the machine hangs in X11 display. Plain Window Managers like twm work perfectly. I grabbed the newest -current sources and did a make world. After that I installed xpm and afterstep from the ports collection. With afterstep the console display changes to X11 and hangs, parts of X11 (afterstep's wharf) initialization are displayed. I even re-made XFree86 from the ports collection... No luck. Is there a known problem with gcc 2.7.2.1, the new .weak support, or whatelse ... it's driving me nuts ... since 2 days I don't get a working X11 running ... Any ideas ?! Now I made a package of afterstep, xpm 3.4i from a 2 days older -current machine and installed it on the machine that has the problems... I also copied the XF86_S3 server from there ... Well, afterstep's wharf now initializes more complete, a x11 xterm appears, I click on it, try to move it ... and again the whole X11 screen freezes ... *sigh* Heeelp ;-)) Andreas /// -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 18:14:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA13806 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from multimaster.buslogic.com (root@multimaster.buslogic.com [204.160.180.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13798 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mssmtpsc.mylex.com (mssmtpsc.mylex.com [204.160.180.9]) by multimaster.buslogic.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA18305 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:17:25 -0700 Received: by mssmtpsc.mylex.com with Microsoft Mail id <3255B6BC@mssmtpsc.mylex.com>; Fri, 04 Oct 96 18:15:40 PDT From: Zoheir Shorab To: FreeBSD Technical Support Subject: FreeBSD 2.1.5 Help Date: Fri, 04 Oct 96 18:14:00 PDT Message-ID: <3255B6BC@mssmtpsc.mylex.com> Encoding: 16 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I work for Mylex/BusLogic & I was asked to test our new FlashPT HA's driver for FreeBSD 2.1.5 & I have never used FreeBSD, so if possible I would like some help with the following: 1) How to creat a partition on a second (or third) HD connected to the Boot HA or a secondary HA. 2) How to creat a file system on a newly added HD. 3) How about adding a Tape drive to the system, do I need to creat a device node for it ? 4) Can you refer me to a documentaion or a book that would help using FreeBSD 2.1.5 including the supported commands. I know you mentioned O'Reily Associates in the README file, but how can I contact them ? I would appreciate your response regarding the above questions & any help you may provide me will be great deal, thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 18:23:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA14865 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA14855 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA04441; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 18:23:41 -0700 (PDT) To: Zoheir Shorab cc: FreeBSD Technical Support Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1.5 Help In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Oct 1996 18:14:00 PDT." <3255B6BC@mssmtpsc.mylex.com> Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 18:23:41 -0700 Message-ID: <4439.844478621@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1) How to creat a partition on a second (or third) HD connected to the Boot > HA or a secondary HA. > 2) How to creat a file system on a newly added HD. > 3) How about adding a Tape drive to the system, do I need to creat a device > node for it ? > 4) Can you refer me to a documentaion or a book that would help using > FreeBSD 2.1.5 including the supported commands. I know you mentioned O'Reily > Associates in the README file, but how can I contact them ? It would help if you could narrow these questions down to just what we need to tell you in order to ensure that your system comes up. Almost everything you're asking about is handled as a function of the installation itself, so I can only assume that you've not installed it yet? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 19:52:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA20946 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po7.andrew.cmu.edu (PO7.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.107]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA20938 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po7.andrew.cmu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA05464 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:52:21 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix19.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix19.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from VUI.Andrew.3.70.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix19.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4x.55 via MS.5.6.unix19.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:51:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Tao Jiang To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: How to recognize Cyrix 686 CPU Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HI, I am using Cyrix 686 P150+ cpu with FreeBSd 2.2. The boot of FreeBSD only recognizes the CPU as 486, how do I make the change to corrctly detect the CPU and use its features? Thanks! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 19:54:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA21031 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s204m38.isp.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21019 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26763; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3255CCC6.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 19:49:42 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zoheir Shorab CC: FreeBSD Technical Support Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1.5 Help References: <3255B6BC@mssmtpsc.mylex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Zoheir Shorab wrote: > > I work for Mylex/BusLogic & I was asked to test our new FlashPT > HA's driver for FreeBSD 2.1.5 & I have never used FreeBSD, so if > possible I would like some help with the following: Your wording sounds as if you have a new driver to port to FreeBSD.. is this what you mean? or do you want to test the existing driver with a new board? > 1) How to creat a partition on a second (or third) HD connected to > the Boot HA or a secondary HA. do you already have a system up and going? do you wish to co-exist with another OS? is hte other OS already installed? > 2) How to create a file system on a newly added HD. the installer will do that for you failing that, it's give n in the faq. see also www.freebsd.org > 3) How about adding a Tape drive to the system, do I need to creat > a device node for it ? there wil be on eby default (rst0 and nrst0) (I assume SCSI right?) > 4) Can you refer me to a documentaion or a book that would help > using FreeBSD 2.1.5 including the supported commands. I know > you mentioned O'Reily Associates in the README file, but how > can I contact them ? Walnut creek have a FreeBSD book. you can order it with the CDROM see www.freebsd.org. the oreily books are the 4.4BSD books htey are relevant but not as far as the install is concerned. > > I would appreciate your response regarding the above questions > & any help you may provide me will be great deal, thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 22:32:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA26739 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA26731; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id HAA05200; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 07:15:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA00837; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 07:12:57 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 07:12:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: current@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems getting Window Manager to run, X11 hangs ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Hi ! > > I'm just fiddeling around with another FreeBSD-current machine since > two days. Whenever I try to start afterstep as window manager, the > machine hangs in X11 display. Plain Window Managers like twm work > perfectly. [...] Wrong /etc/XFree86 settings. Works now ... good night ;) -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 23:49:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA29799 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA29778 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id QAA15141; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 16:40:34 +1000 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 16:40:34 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610050640.QAA15141@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: Running FreeBSD with NO CONSOLE (AT ALL) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm running freeBSD with no available sio device and no videa Which version? :-) >the only problem I've seen so far is that in exit() >there is an unguarded call to p->pg_session->s_ttyp >which is NULL. >there is a check for p->pg_session->s_ttyvp and the assumption is >being made that if s_ttyvp (points to /dev/console's vnode) is valid, >then the tty struct in the physical device is also valid. I think cnopen() should fail when there is no tty. Then this problem can't happen. init might die instead when it can't open /dev/console :-). Note that cnopen() and all the cn i/o routines return 0 if there is no tty. Thus /dev/console is the same as /dev/null, except cnwrite() is broken - it doesn't advance the uio pointers, so write() returns 0 with no error. This can't happen :-). They do this in case init depends on opening /dev/console, but your problem shows that they don't do enough. >Eventually the aim is to be able to run with no console, but in >some special case, attach the console to sio0 >but only with some special checks. It should be possible to change the physcal console at any time using a sysctl. This should include starting from or ending with a null console or a dead console. But first, check the error handling of init and syslogd etc. when /dev/console doesn't exist (open fails) or is dead (has been opened and revoked - revoke() stops it being a control terminal so the nonexistent tty doesn't matter). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 4 23:50:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA29906 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29895 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA12429; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:50:46 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA13371; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:50:45 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA08453; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:30:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610050630.IAA08453@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.1.5 Help To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:30:50 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ZoheirS@mylex.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <4439.844478621@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Oct 4, 96 06:23:41 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 4) Can you refer me to a documentaion or a book that would help using > > FreeBSD 2.1.5 including the supported commands. > It would help if you could narrow these questions down to just what we > need to tell you in order to ensure that your system comes up. Almost > everything you're asking about is handled as a function of the > installation itself, so I can only assume that you've not installed it > yet? OTOH, i think Greg Lehey's ``Installing and Running FreeBSD'' does also cover this kind of questions. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 01:11:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA02608 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA02602 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unicorn.ww.net (Simferopol.ww.net [193.124.73.254]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id BAA01342 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alexis@localhost) by unicorn.ww.net (8.7.5/alexis 2.5) id MAA11352 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:09:46 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199610050809.MAA11352@unicorn.ww.net> Subject: 2.1.5-???? in priduction -- once again To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:09:46 +0400 (MSD) From: Alexis Yushin Reply-To: alexis@ww.net (Alexis Yushin) X-Office-Phone: +380 65 2 26.1410 X-Home-Phone: +380 65 2 27.0747 X-NIC-Handle: AY23 X-RIPE-Handle: AY6-RIPE X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Salut, So back to the issue. One wants to build as-robust-as-possible- -with-FreeBSD solution. It seems obviously that he takes 2.1.5-RELEASE. But there is a number of patches which are usefull to be applied. Like RED and the one to slattach and something related to swap and something related to sc0 etc etc Is there a place or at least a list of all these patches one would want to apply to 2.1.5 to get yet better and more robust system? alexis -- Yesterday don't matter when it's gone From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 01:20:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA02926 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SandBox.CyberCity.dk ([194.16.57.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA02919 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by SandBox.CyberCity.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) id XAA00376; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:01:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610042101.XAA00376@SandBox.CyberCity.dk> Subject: Re: splash-page on bootup.. To: dk+@ua.net Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:01:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Soren Schmidt" Cc: alexis@dawn.ww.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199610042041.NAA23948@dog.farm.org> from "Dmitry Kohmanyuk" at Oct 4, 96 01:41:27 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Dmitry Kohmanyuk who wrote: > > > In article <199610031005.OAA17905@dawn.ww.net> you wrote: > > In article <522lho$g8l@sunset.ww.net> you wrote: > > > On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Jim Durham wrote: > > > > Amen... can you imagine what would happen if the system didn't > > > > boot? No boot...no reading var/log/messages to see what happened.. > > > > Uhrm, it was nestled at the end of a paragraph, but I figured it would > > > work like 95 where a simply hitting 'tab' or something similar would > > > toggle the two windows. > > > Put the splash screen on ttyv1 for example and switch there. > > If you want your console back switch to ttyv0? NO!, syscons does this transparently on the console, no ttyv? > Remember, sc0 is an ISA device, and PCI is probed before ISA (at least in > current). It was the syscons' job to put to logo on, right? The LOGO appears right at the start, just as soon as the kernel is loaded... > Then, assuming abpout switching to ttyv1 for our graphics, how about > /etc/rc messages? They are also left on ttyv0, yes? Great. Then, > the getty starts and it would switch back to text mode? Or do we > have to run special utility just to ioctl() /dev/ttyv1? Or maybe > we'd just start xdm, having ttyv1 free. This way, the system would come > into graphics login screen. All output to /dev/console are saved and can be viewed on ttyv0 as usual... Depending on what is then run, you can customise what to do... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 01:56:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA04046 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA04029; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 01:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA29852 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:43:56 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 5 Oct 96 11:43:55 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id MAA00671; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:35:21 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199610050835.MAA00671@nagual.ru> Subject: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) In-Reply-To: <199610041822.UAA03607@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at "Oct 4, 96 08:22:33 pm" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:35:20 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-current) From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't think so. But they are much better with random(). See xmine, > if you wanna get a nice example. It generates totally predictable > layouts when using rand(). Totally predictable layouts not rand() illness only but random() too. It not depends well on different initial state, producing the same sequence. I finally dig out initial posting (below). IMHO we need to change our random() as suggested. ------------------------------- cut me here! -------------------------- >From warwick@cs.uq.edu.au Fri Jul 5 21:11:08 1996 From: warwick@cs.uq.edu.au (Warwick Allison) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.bugs.4bsd Subject: Re: Random Number Generation with Linux (using BSD) and BSD Date: 29 Mar 1996 02:12:03 GMT Organization: Computer Science Dept, University of Queensland Message-ID: <4jfgtk$d71@miso.cs.uq.edu.au> References: <1996Mar28.154520.1@rmcs.cranfield.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: isa.cs.uq.edu.au X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #7 (NOV) Status: RO warner@rmcs.cranfield.ac.uk (Alistair (Joe) Warner) writes: > BSD: state[i] = 1103515245 * state[i - 1] + 12345; > Linux: state[i] = 1103515145 * state[i - 1] + 12345; > ^ Ha! How amusing. That line is utterly WRONG in BOTH implementations. The state it creates is so incredibly UNRANDOM, that seeding is almost pointless. The following program outputs a PBM image showing a bit in the result of successive calls to random(), for consecutive values of srandom(). The results are TERRIBLE (for example, the 151st value returned by random() is 0 for seed 0..14, then 1 for seed 15..30, then 0 for seed 31..46, etc.) The reason? That stupid line above. Appended are my previous warnings about this, which have been ignored I presume this is because most people just don't understand the problem. Let me tell you one consequence: In one build of NetHack, it was impossible to get a Chaotic Priest. Why you ask? Because the alignment was chosen based on to successive 0th bits from random() calls, and the 0th bit is the worst of all (for some number of calls of random(), it always has the same value, regardless of initial srandom value!!!). I have tested this under Solaris, and I get similar abysmal errors. Changing to the BSD value will make NO DIFFERENCE. The change I give below is of the type required for success. #include #define LOOP 200 #define ITER 200 main() { int s=time(0); int i,l,m,j; int seed=0; printf("P1\n%d %d\n",ITER,LOOP); for (l=0; l>8)&1; /* remove >>8 for WORSE */ printf("%d\n",b); } } } >To: bug-glibc@prep.ai.mit.edu >cc: >Subject: PARTIAL FIX FOR: srandom() in libc -------- The implementation of srandom() is not good. By using a poor LCRNG for the seeding, the whole algorithm is suffering. I realize this is the same algorithm used in every Unix C library, but hopefully *GNU* software doesn't have to live under known errors forever. For example, if only the zeroth bit is used from successive calls to random(), it will give almost identical output, regardless of the seed. This can be verified by this simple program which generates a PBM image of streams of random numbers from different starting seeds: main() { int i,l; int seed=0; printf("P1\n%d %d\n",100,100); for (l=0; l<100; l++) { srandom(seed); seed+=1; for (i=0; i<100; i++) { int b=random()&1; printf("%d\n",b); } } } Nothing can be done to change the EXTREME uniformity of the resulting image, as the code in srandom() makes a fundamental mistake: it uses a power of two as the modulo which is mathematically a `poor' choice. Code I suggest is better uses the largest 31-bit prime (2^31-1), which is a `good' choice mentioned in the literature (I can find references, if that would be useful) - the image resulting from the above is then very random. BTW, I discovered the flaw when I noticed my version of NetHack was NEVER giving me a lawful priest :) [nethack, like thousands of programs, calls srandom(time(0)) to seed the generator] Below is a patch of __srandom(), relative to glibc-1.09. Also required would be setting the initial value of randtbl to be that achieved by srandom(1), as these values are now different. I see that difference as being the only argument against using the improved randomizer. *** stdlib/__random.c Tue Jul 19 08:02:39 1994 --- stdlib/__random.c-new Mon Feb 20 11:02:46 1995 *************** *** 179,185 **** { register long int i; for (i = 1; i < rand_deg; ++i) ! state[i] = (1103515145 * state[i - 1]) + 12345; fptr = &state[rand_sep]; rptr = &state[0]; for (i = 0; i < 10 * rand_deg; ++i) --- 179,197 ---- { register long int i; for (i = 1; i < rand_deg; ++i) ! { ! /* ! * Implements the following, without overflowing 31 bits: ! * ! * state[i] = (16807 * state[i - 1]) % 2147483647; ! * ! * 2^31-1 (prime) = 2147483647 = 127773*16807+2836 ! */ ! long int hi = state[i-1] / 127773; ! long int lo = state[i-1] % 127773; ! long int test = 16807*lo - 2836*hi; ! state[i] = test + (test<0 ? 2147483647 : 0); ! } fptr = &state[rand_sep]; rptr = &state[0]; for (i = 0; i < 10 * rand_deg; ++i) Newsgroups: gnu.g++.help Subject: Re: Random Numbers References: <47qu5b$m4q@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <47to1e$3fc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> steffend@lamar.colostate.edu (Dave Steffen) writes: >In your code I don't see any call to a "seeding" function; WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING The gnu libc random()/srandom() functions have (IMO) a fundamental flaw in their implementation (as do every implementation I've tested: rand()/srand(), lrand48()/srand48()). The random sequences do not vary much with the seed. This can be demonstrated with: main() { int i,l; int seed=0; printf("P1\n%d %d\n",100,100); for (l=0; l<100; l++) { srandom(seed); seed+=1; for (i=0; i<100; i++) { int b=random()&1; printf("%d\n",b); } } } (generates a PBM image of streams of random numbers from different starting seeds. The result SHOULD be white noise, but it looks more like a MacPaint fill pattern!!) Below is a patch of __srandom(), relative to glibc-1.09. Also required would be setting the initial value of randtbl to be that achieved by srandom(1), as these values are now different. (this has been reported to bug-glibc@prep.ai.mit.edu, but I've had no reply) *** stdlib/__random.c Tue Jul 19 08:02:39 1994 --- stdlib/__random.c-new Mon Feb 20 11:02:46 1995 *************** *** 179,185 **** { register long int i; for (i = 1; i < rand_deg; ++i) ! state[i] = (1103515145 * state[i - 1]) + 12345; fptr = &state[rand_sep]; rptr = &state[0]; for (i = 0; i < 10 * rand_deg; ++i) --- 179,197 ---- { register long int i; for (i = 1; i < rand_deg; ++i) ! { ! /* ! * Implements the following, without overflowing 31 bits: ! * ! * state[i] = (16807 * state[i - 1]) % 2147483647; ! * ! * 2^31-1 (prime) = 2147483647 = 127773*16807+2836 ! */ ! long int hi = state[i-1] / 127773; ! long int lo = state[i-1] % 127773; ! long int test = 16807*lo - 2836*hi; ! state[i] = test + (test<0 ? 2147483647 : 0); ! } fptr = &state[rand_sep]; rptr = &state[0]; for (i = 0; i < 10 * rand_deg; ++i) -- _-_|\ warwick@cs.uq.edu.au Linux: Say `No' to broken windows. / * <- Comp Sci Department, McD: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/mcl.html \_.-._/ Univ. of Queensland, POV: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/pov.html v Brisbane, Australia. ME: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434 ------------------------------- cut me here! -------------------------- -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 04:25:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA09102 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA09052; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 04:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id VAA21012; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:15:05 +1000 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:15:05 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610051115.VAA21012@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.ru, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I don't think so. But they are much better with random(). See xmine, >> if you wanna get a nice example. It generates totally predictable >> layouts when using rand(). > >Totally predictable layouts not rand() illness only but random() too. >It not depends well on different initial state, producing the same >sequence. I finally dig out initial posting (below). It says that the 0th bit is the most non-random. In fact, it is obvious from the formula for rand() that (rand() & 1) == previous_value_returned_by_rand ^ 1 :-(. The posting also says that the bad values for rand() make the seeding for random() bad. This seems reasonable. >IMHO we need to change our random() as suggested. How do you know that the suggested method is better? --- >From: warwick@cs.uq.edu.au (Warwick Allison) >... >warner@rmcs.cranfield.ac.uk (Alistair (Joe) Warner) writes: > >> BSD: state[i] = 1103515245 * state[i - 1] + 12345; >> Linux: state[i] = 1103515145 * state[i - 1] + 12345; ISO C example: next = 1103515245 * next + 12345; return (unsigned int)(next / 65536) % 32768; I.e., it returns bits 16-31 of the current state (right shifted 16). This is said to be better. Folklore says that someone broke rand() by not discarding the low bits when ints became 32 bits. >value will make NO DIFFERENCE. The change I give below is of the type >required for success. > > >#include > >#define LOOP 200 >#define ITER 200 > >main() >{ > int s=time(0); > int i,l,m,j; > > int seed=0; > > printf("P1\n%d %d\n",ITER,LOOP); > for (l=0; l srandom(seed); seed+=1; > for (i=0; i int b=(random()>>8)&1; /* remove >>8 for WORSE */ > printf("%d\n",b); > } > } >} Similarly for rand(). You can throw away the lowest 16 bits yourself to get a rand() no worse than the example in the ISO C standard. This is said to be bad, but I think the badness is more in the brokenness as specified (the number of starting states is limited by the srand() interface) and in the limited period (which is inherent in the LCRNG implementation) than in the coefficients for the LCRNG. >>To: bug-glibc@prep.ai.mit.edu >>cc: >>Subject: PARTIAL FIX FOR: srandom() in libc >-------- >... >Nothing can be done to change the EXTREME uniformity of the resulting >image, as the code in srandom() makes a fundamental mistake: it uses a >power of two as the modulo which is mathematically a `poor' choice. >Code I suggest is better uses the largest 31-bit prime (2^31-1), which >is a `good' choice mentioned in the literature (I can find references, >if that would be useful) - the image resulting from the above is then According to Knuth, moduli of the form 2^n+1 and 2^n-1 have the advantage that the low order bits are just as random as the high order ones. However, "In most applications, the low-order bits are insignificant, and the choice m=w [modulus = 2^n] is quite satisfactory - provided the programmer using the random numbers does so wisely". In the ISO example, it is actually an advantage to have randomness concentrated in the high order bits (is it?). ISO only guarantees 16 bit integers, so a portably example can only return 15 bits of randomness, so the low bits are not useful; OTOH, longs have to be used to get a reasonably large period - 16 bit ints are too small. >! /* >! * Implements the following, without overflowing 31 bits: >! * >! * state[i] = (16807 * state[i - 1]) % 2147483647; >! * >! * 2^31-1 (prime) = 2147483647 = 127773*16807+2836 >! */ >! long int hi = state[i-1] / 127773; >! long int lo = state[i-1] % 127773; >! long int test = 16807*lo - 2836*hi; >! state[i] = test + (test<0 ? 2147483647 : 0); This method is also found in the BSD4.4Lite libkern/rand.c. I guess it can be trusted (as much as the BSD rand.c :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 05:28:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA13765 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 05:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA13727 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 05:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id WAA17950 Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:01 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199610051226.WAA17950@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: 2.1.5-???? in priduction -- once again In-Reply-To: <199610050809.MAA11352@unicorn.ww.net> from Alexis Yushin at "Oct 5, 96 12:09:46 pm" To: alexis@ww.net Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:00 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Alexis Yushin writes: > So back to the issue. One wants to build as-robust-as-possible- > -with-FreeBSD solution. It seems obviously that he takes 2.1.5-RELEASE. > But there is a number of patches which are usefull to be applied .. There doesn't seem to be a separate list (unless you want to wade through the CVS commit logs). My approach has been to install 2.1.5-release, sup 2.1.5-stable from my local archive, 'make world', transport to customer and integrate (simple reconfiguration) into their network. All five of my internal "mission-critical" servers were built this way and several of my customers'. I have very few problems with this strategy since the hardware gets "stress tested" at the time of install rather than when the customer goes to use it. More problems are caused by "pilot error" than anything else :-( michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 06:50:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA17863 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 06:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hps.sso.wdl.lmco.com (hps.sso.wdl.lmco.com [158.186.22.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA17858 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 06:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.sso.wdl.lmco.com by hps.sso.wdl.lmco.com (4.1/SSO-4.01-LMCO) id AA01987; Sat, 5 Oct 96 09:49:51 EDT Received: by miles.sso.wdl.lmco.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA08632; Sat, 5 Oct 96 09:47:23 EDT Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:47:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: Stephen Hocking Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SecureID cards & userland ppp In-Reply-To: <199610040739.HAA07974@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stephen; I anticipated the same problem by making a small change to the chat program. I modified it so that any 'reply' string that started with a '$' caused an environment lookup. 312 if (*sp != '\0') 313 *sp++ = '\0'; 314 315 /* RPT -- substitute an envronment variable if the string 316 starts with $, else send as is */ + 317 if (*arg=='$') { + 318 envP = getenv(&arg[1]); + 319 syslog(LOG_INFO, "chat substitute %s = %s", arg,envP?envP:"NULL"); + 320 arg = envP?envP:arg; + 321 } 322 323 if (sendflg) { 324 chat_send (arg); 325 } Now I use a script around the command that that takes the expected Secureid as an argument, puts it in th elocal environment and the starts pppd. The chat script then passes that at the challenge. On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Stephen Hocking wrote: > > My place of employment is now doing it's dialing via the SecureID stuff. For > those who don't know, each persion is issued with a nifty little card & a PIN > number. The card has a display on it that changes every 5 or so minutes. You > dial in and are prompted for a user name. Upon entering this, you are prompted > for a passcode, which is your PIN number concatenated with whatever the number > is on the display of the card at that time. As you can imagine, this makes > automating it rather difficult. One can't persuade it to prompt for user input > partway through the login sequence. Any ideas (doing it all manually, via > "term" works fine)? > > > Stephen > -- > The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of > Queensland, Australia. > > > ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@sso.wdl.lmco.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 09:51:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA25653 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25604 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA20684; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:50:08 -0400 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:50 EDT Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA11248; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA05170; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:53:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199610051253.IAA05170@lakes.water.net> To: ache@nagual.ru, ponds!uriah.heep.sax.de!joerg_wunsch Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) Cc: ponds!freebsd.org!current, ponds!freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I don't think so. But they are much better with random(). See xmine, > > if you wanna get a nice example. It generates totally predictable > > layouts when using rand(). > > Totally predictable layouts not rand() illness only but random() too. > It not depends well on different initial state, producing the same > sequence. I finally dig out initial posting (below). > > IMHO we need to change our random() as suggested. > When working with the Data General runtime library's on AOS/VS (remember that?) we discovered a similar situation - our rand() wasn't random... A user had sent in a marvelous demonstration of this - generate several thousand X/Y pairs with calls to rand() and make a scatter plot of them. (i.e. a monte-carlo idea..) When we plotted these points, we got a definite line!!!! I agree - fix rand()... - Dave R. - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 09:51:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA25688 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25605 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA20653; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:50:06 -0400 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:50 EDT Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA11242; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA05158; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:50:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199610051250.IAA05158@lakes.water.net> To: Charles_Boatwright@cisnc.canon.com, ponds!FreeBSD.ORG!freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: x86 COFF with FreeBSD Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hey, > > I hope that this isn't a "beaten to death question." > > I have a MSVC COFF library, from MSVC 4., > I need to link it under FreeBSD. > > The facts. > > The library is C, not C++ (no name mangling). > The library is portable (no OS specific calls, only standard C). > The library is 32 bit. > The library is HUGE > 4 Meg; > 30 000 functions. > NO SOURCE. > > The needs: > > Link library with gnu ld to produce an a.out. > > Knowledge of problem. > > Used cygnus tool chain on X86-cygwin32 to begin BFD - COFF research. > No success. > > Does anyone know how this can be done, or can it be done???? > > Any help, ideas, books in which to read things, places in which to bury > my head (a bucket of sand???) would be excellent. > > TIA This can be done - but it's not easy... I know it can be done because the group I manage at work is responsible for tools that make something close to this possible. Your first issue is to understand the COFF format produced by MSCV4 - you'll find that Microsoft is now documenting all of that stuff quite well (you can find it on MSN, for example.) Then, after writing your own linker that handles FreeBSD .o's and this library; you'll have the problem of call/return stacks... it's quite possible they are different. To handle that, you'll have to add keywords (or some other machinations) to the C that you compile on the FreeBSD side, and alter the C compiler. Then, after that, you'll have to consider sizes and alignments of data. With luck, they'll all be the same. Although I know MSC has extensions to allow arbitrary bitfield alignment, and some other items that may make this a problem.... - Good Luck! - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 10:55:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA28813 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28802; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA07653 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:54:40 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 5 Oct 96 20:54:40 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id VAA03726; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:52:28 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199610051752.VAA03726@nagual.ru> Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) In-Reply-To: <199610051115.VAA21012@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at "Oct 5, 96 09:15:05 pm" To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:52:27 +0400 (MSD) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >IMHO we need to change our random() as suggested. > > How do you know that the suggested method is better? Well, I am not research random generators area personally, but given formulae is 1) well-known as good one, 2) give good results with proposed test, 3) already used in libkern/random.c, 4) better than previous one in all parameters. > ISO C example: next = 1103515245 * next + 12345; > return (unsigned int)(next / 65536) % 32768; > > I.e., it returns bits 16-31 of the current state (right shifted 16). This > is said to be better. Folklore says that someone broke rand() by not > discarding the low bits when ints became 32 bits. It is not good enough to live due to unrandom nature of original formulae. I.e. _all_ bits are unrandom, and lower ones are more unrandom. This formulae not good enough even for 16bits. At this moment I worry about random() only, lets consider rand() things after it. > >! /* > >! * Implements the following, without overflowing 31 bits: > >! * > >! * state[i] = (16807 * state[i - 1]) % 2147483647; > >! * > >! * 2^31-1 (prime) = 2147483647 = 127773*16807+2836 > >! */ > >! long int hi = state[i-1] / 127773; > >! long int lo = state[i-1] % 127773; > >! long int test = 16807*lo - 2836*hi; > >! state[i] = test + (test<0 ? 2147483647 : 0); > > This method is also found in the BSD4.4Lite libkern/rand.c. I guess it > can be trusted (as much as the BSD rand.c :-). So we can safely import it even not from this posting (which can be GNU diseased) but from our own libkern/rand.c Here proposed patch, initial table regenerated to conform default seed value (1): *** random.c.orig Sat Oct 5 20:41:57 1996 --- random.c Sat Oct 5 21:45:01 1996 *************** *** 122,128 **** /* * Initially, everything is set up as if from: * ! * initstate(1, &randtbl, 128); * * Note that this initialization takes advantage of the fact that srandom() * advances the front and rear pointers 10*rand_deg times, and hence the --- 122,128 ---- /* * Initially, everything is set up as if from: * ! * initstate(1, randtbl, 128); * * Note that this initialization takes advantage of the fact that srandom() * advances the front and rear pointers 10*rand_deg times, and hence the *************** *** 135,146 **** static long randtbl[DEG_3 + 1] = { TYPE_3, ! 0x9a319039, 0x32d9c024, 0x9b663182, 0x5da1f342, 0xde3b81e0, 0xdf0a6fb5, ! 0xf103bc02, 0x48f340fb, 0x7449e56b, 0xbeb1dbb0, 0xab5c5918, 0x946554fd, ! 0x8c2e680f, 0xeb3d799f, 0xb11ee0b7, 0x2d436b86, 0xda672e2a, 0x1588ca88, ! 0xe369735d, 0x904f35f7, 0xd7158fd6, 0x6fa6f051, 0x616e6b96, 0xac94efdc, ! 0x36413f93, 0xc622c298, 0xf5a42ab8, 0x8a88d77b, 0xf5ad9d0e, 0x8999220b, ! 0x27fb47b9, }; /* --- 135,146 ---- static long randtbl[DEG_3 + 1] = { TYPE_3, ! 0x991539b1, 0x16a5bce3, 0x6774a4cd, 0x3e01511e, 0x4e508aaa, 0x61048c05, ! 0xf5500617, 0x846b7115, 0x6a19892c, 0x896a97af, 0xdb48f936, 0x14898454, ! 0x37ffd106, 0xb58bff9c, 0x59e17104, 0xcf918a49, 0x09378c83, 0x52c7a471, ! 0x8d293ea9, 0x1f4fc301, 0xc3db71be, 0x39b44e1c, 0xf8a44ef9, 0x4c8b80b1, ! 0x19edc328, 0x87bf4bdd, 0xc9b240e5, 0xe9ee4b1b, 0x4382aee7, 0x535b6b41, ! 0xf3bec5da }; /* *************** *** 192,206 **** srandom(x) unsigned int x; { ! register int i, j; if (rand_type == TYPE_0) state[0] = x; else { - j = 1; state[0] = x; ! for (i = 1; i < rand_deg; i++) ! state[i] = 1103515245 * state[i - 1] + 12345; fptr = &state[rand_sep]; rptr = &state[0]; for (i = 0; i < 10 * rand_deg; i++) --- 192,221 ---- srandom(x) unsigned int x; { ! register int i; if (rand_type == TYPE_0) state[0] = x; else { state[0] = x; ! for (i = 1; i < rand_deg; i++) { ! /* ! * Compute state[i] = (7^5 * state[i - 1]) mod (2^31 - 1) ! * wihout overflowing 31 bits: ! * (2^31 - 1) = 127773 * (7^5) + 2836 ! * From "Random number generators: good ones are hard to find", ! * Park and Miller, Communications of the ACM, vol. 31, no. 10, ! * October 1988, p. 1195. ! */ ! long hi, lo, t; ! ! hi = state[i - 1] / 127773; ! lo = state[i - 1] % 127773; ! t = 16807 * lo - 2836 * hi; ! if (t <= 0) ! t += 0x7fffffff; ! state[i] = t; ! } fptr = &state[rand_sep]; rptr = &state[0]; for (i = 0; i < 10 * rand_deg; i++) *************** *** 348,356 **** { long i; ! if (rand_type == TYPE_0) ! i = state[0] = (state[0] * 1103515245 + 12345) & 0x7fffffff; ! else { *fptr += *rptr; i = (*fptr >> 1) & 0x7fffffff; /* chucking least random bit */ if (++fptr >= end_ptr) { --- 363,386 ---- { long i; ! if (rand_type == TYPE_0) { ! /* ! * Compute i = (7^5 * state[0]) mod (2^31 - 1) ! * wihout overflowing 31 bits: ! * (2^31 - 1) = 127773 * (7^5) + 2836 ! * From "Random number generators: good ones are hard to find", ! * Park and Miller, Communications of the ACM, vol. 31, no. 10, ! * October 1988, p. 1195. ! */ ! long hi, lo; ! ! hi = state[0] / 127773; ! lo = state[0] % 127773; ! i = 16807 * lo - 2836 * hi; ! if (i <= 0) ! i += 0x7fffffff; ! state[0] = i; ! } else { *fptr += *rptr; i = (*fptr >> 1) & 0x7fffffff; /* chucking least random bit */ if (++fptr >= end_ptr) { -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 11:49:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01959 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01953; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost.grondar.za [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA23755; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:47:51 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199610051847.UAA23755@grumble.grondar.za> To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 20:47:50 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= wrote: > > >IMHO we need to change our random() as suggested. > > > > How do you know that the suggested method is better? > > Well, I am not research random generators area personally, > but given formulae is 1) well-known as good one, 2) give > good results with proposed test, 3) already used in libkern/random.c, > 4) better than previous one in all parameters. Why don't you use the RNG engine from /dev/random in random_machdep.c? There is even a routine in ther (#ifdef'ed out) for this use. That thing gives _great_ random numbers, and it is already in the kernel. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 11:59:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA02621 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA02616; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id EAA30329; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 04:56:27 +1000 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 04:56:27 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610051856.EAA30329@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.ru, bde@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) Cc: current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> ISO C example: next = 1103515245 * next + 12345; >> return (unsigned int)(next / 65536) % 32768; >> >> I.e., it returns bits 16-31 of the current state (right shifted 16). This >> is said to be better. Folklore says that someone broke rand() by not >> discarding the low bits when ints became 32 bits. > >It is not good enough to live due to unrandom nature of original formulae. >I.e. _all_ bits are unrandom, and lower ones are more unrandom. >This formulae not good enough even for 16bits. No, it is probably fine for 16 bits (see Knuth), but probably no good for random() since random() wants to use all the bits. >At this moment I worry about random() only, lets consider rand() things >after it. OK. >> This method is also found in the BSD4.4Lite libkern/rand.c. I guess it >> can be trusted (as much as the BSD rand.c :-). > >So we can safely import it even not from this posting (which can be >GNU diseased) but from our own libkern/rand.c Not so safe. Something might depend on the doemented behaviour that the sequence after srandom() depends on the seed (not even on the library version :-). >Here proposed patch, initial table regenerated to conform default >seed value (1): Commit it and see if we get complaints. ! * initstate(1, randtbl, 128); Lost a tab here. >! for (i = 1; i < rand_deg; i++) { >! /* >! * Compute state[i] = (7^5 * state[i - 1]) mod (2^31 - 1) >! * wihout overflowing 31 bits: >! * (2^31 - 1) = 127773 * (7^5) + 2836 >! * From "Random number generators: good ones are hard to find", >! * Park and Miller, Communications of the ACM, vol. 31, no. 10, >! * October 1988, p. 1195. >! */ >! long hi, lo, t; >! >! hi = state[i - 1] / 127773; >! lo = state[i - 1] % 127773; >! t = 16807 * lo - 2836 * hi; This is much slower than the current rand() or random(). On a P133, measured over 10^7 calls to statically linked libraries: rand: 174 nsec random: 275 nsec random from libkern: 673 nsec The division in the libkern random() is apparently very expensive, although gcc optimizes it nicely. Knuth gives an algorithm for dividing by (2^n + 1) using only one multiplication, one subtraction, one test and 2 additions. The method for (2^n - 1) is an exercise :-). I think these methods depend on a double width multiplication, which the i386 has. The portable C method is slow because it must work without overflowing 32 bits. We can write the Knuth algorithm in unportable gCc using long long. Gcc optimizes multiplications of the form `(long long)x * y' (where x and y are 32 bit) nicely on the i386. ! /* ! * Compute i = (7^5 * state[0]) mod (2^31 - 1) Perhaps make this a subroutine to avoid duplication and allow easy changing. Division takes 10-20 times longer than a subroutine call on Pentiums. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 13:19:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05700 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA05674 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.8.0/8.7.3) id FAA23063; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 05:45:05 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 05:45:05 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199610052015.FAA23063@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SecureID cards & userland ppp X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199610040739.HAA07974@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> you wrote: : My place of employment is now doing it's dialing via the SecureID stuff. For : those who don't know, each persion is issued with a nifty little card & a PIN [etc] I'm positive I've read about this already somewhere. Perhaps it was with the mgetty code... hmm... pretty sure it was. Check out mgetty and there is something in there somewhere about this. Either that, or i've read something in these lists, the send-pr's or linux's ppp implementation. Have fun. Peter -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 13:24:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06157 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05860 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA26543 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:20:59 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA26440 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:20:58 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA01766 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:54:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610051954.VAA01766@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:54:55 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610051847.UAA23755@grumble.grondar.za> from Mark Murray at "Oct 5, 96 08:47:50 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Murray wrote: > Why don't you use the RNG engine from /dev/random in random_machdep.c? Well, the trick with the library is that it shouldn't be _too_ random at all. ;-) It is supposed to generate the same sequence over and over again when used with the same seed, so you can test your software. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 13:58:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07807 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07782; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA11278; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:53:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610052053.NAA11278@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) To: ache@nagual.ru (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:53:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610050835.MAA00671@nagual.ru> from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Oct 5, 96 12:35:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't think so. But they are much better with random(). See xmine, > > if you wanna get a nice example. It generates totally predictable > > layouts when using rand(). > > Totally predictable layouts not rand() illness only but random() too. > It not depends well on different initial state, producing the same > sequence. I finally dig out initial posting (below). > > IMHO we need to change our random() as suggested. There is a historical dependence of much physics code on the repeatability of identical seeding for the linear congruential generator as a "randomness" base for repeatable Monte Carlo based testing of relativistically invariant P-P, N-P, and N-N pair production collisions. Such collisions are used to test "allowability" of given target states using the soloutions of multiple Feynman-Dyson diagrams as constraints on the resulting pairs (velocity, direction, angular momentum, etc.). The idea is that the real world has more constraints on allowable pair production events than simple relatavistic invariance. If you *do* change the random algorithms, then you should *leave the rand48() code along*. I can not stress this enough. You will damage repeatability of experiments for which source code is unavailable, and only the results remain. This is only *one* example of a real dependence on the algorithm used to implement random functions. Please be sure that you are not damaging anything in your zeal to "correct" thjis problem. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 14:57:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10820 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10814; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA23425 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sun, 6 Oct 1996 00:42:15 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 6 Oct 96 00:42:15 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id BAA06368; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 01:39:30 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199610052139.BAA06368@nagual.ru> Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) In-Reply-To: <199610051856.EAA30329@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at "Oct 6, 96 04:56:27 am" To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 01:39:29 +0400 (MSD) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is much slower than the current rand() or random(). On a P133, > measured over 10^7 calls to statically linked libraries: You forget the fact that srandom() called only _once_ (usually), so speed is unimportant here. TYPE_0 case in random() is very rare thing too, it seems nobody use it. > Perhaps make this a subroutine to avoid duplication and allow easy > changing. Division takes 10-20 times longer than a subroutine call > on Pentiums. We can't relay on Pentium times in machine-independent code. I am thinking about making it #define or inline, which one is better? -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 15:12:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA11573 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 15:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vanbc.wimsey.com (vanbc.wimsey.com [204.191.160.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11563 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 15:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vanbc.wimsey.com (Smail-3.1.29.1 #32) id m0v9ewD-0001BHC; Sat, 5 Oct 96 15:11 PDT To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Path: van-bc!not-for-mail From: jhenders@wimsey.com (John Henders) Newsgroups: local.freebsd.hackers Subject: FreeBSD and BSD/OS file systems. Are they the same. Date: 5 Oct 1996 15:11:11 -0700 Organization: Wimsey Information Services Lines: 69 Message-ID: <536mdv$gqh@vanbc.wimsey.com> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Are the file systems on BSDI and FreeBSD the same? Can I for instance install FreeBSD on a root disk and mount my current BSD/OS formatted news drives? How about the other way around? I have news machines from two different companies which have combined under my control now and I'd like to standardize on one OS. Also, the FreeBSD box I have inherited has had problems for quite some time, rebooting itself once a week or so. It's running 2.1.0-RELEASE FreeBSD and both the motherboard and the Adaptec 2940 controller have been replaced at various times to try to track down the problem. Dmesg reports the following after the system reboots. These reports are spread over months of time, but very similar. I suspect flaky hardware, but can someone suggest what this error might be caused by? They tried upgrading the kernel to one of the stable releases in the early summer but within 2 hours of running the machine panic'ed and trashed all the file systems on sd0 so they've been rather hesitant to try that again. April 16: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x400328 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010c2ed code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 () interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault Aug 30: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x400328 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010c2ed code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 () interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault Sept 27: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x4a0328 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010c2ed code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 () interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault Sept 27 - 6 hours later: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x400728 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010c2ed code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 () interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault -- John Henders - System Administrator - Mindlink!/Wimsey From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 15:16:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA11775 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 15:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11608; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 15:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA26728 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sun, 6 Oct 1996 01:05:22 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 6 Oct 96 01:05:22 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id CAA07197; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:04:17 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199610052204.CAA07197@nagual.ru> Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) In-Reply-To: <199610052053.NAA11278@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at "Oct 5, 96 01:53:11 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:04:17 +0400 (MSD) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is a historical dependence of much physics code on the > repeatability of identical seeding for the linear congruential > generator as a "randomness" base for repeatable Monte Carlo based > testing of relativistically invariant P-P, N-P, and N-N pair production > collisions. The fix _not_ breaks repeatability of identical seeding. > If you *do* change the random algorithms, then you should *leave the > rand48() code along*. I can not stress this enough. You will damage > repeatability of experiments for which source code is unavailable, and > only the results remain. I don't understand your statement well, random() already have different implementations in different OSes. If you mean that previous FreeBSD dynamic-linked binaries can produce different results, yes, it is any upgrade cost. Make static binaries if source code is unavailable. Depending on predictable system function results which claimed to be 'random' is bad idea in general (and mans/docs/standards not declare such possibility too). They only say that "this function [not all possible versions of this function] gives the same sequence for the same seed". Real practice when rand() and random() functions changes between different OSes and inside one OS too confirms it. I remember that Unix v6 rand() was different with what we have currently, so we must return to Unix v6 variant according to your logic. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 20:29:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA04341 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA04318; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id NAA08899; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:27:32 +1000 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:27:32 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199610060327.NAA08899@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.ru, bde@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >You forget the fact that srandom() called only _once_ (usually), >so speed is unimportant here. I was thinking of getting it right here and copying it to the kernel random() and the user rand(). >> Perhaps make this a subroutine to avoid duplication and allow easy >> changing. Division takes 10-20 times longer than a subroutine call >> on Pentiums. Actually 5-10 times on Pentiums, 3-5 times on 486's, 1-2 times on 386's. >We can't relay on Pentium times in machine-independent code. Speed is unimportant here :-). >I am thinking about making it #define or inline, which one >is better? Inline. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 20:59:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA07081 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br (root@cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.2.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07073 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA00618; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 00:59:09 -0300 (EST) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199610060359.AAA00618@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: nullfs: Panicing... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 00:59:08 -0300 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL14 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I want to make parts of a file system available to anon ftp, whose chrooted directory is located at another file system. My first approach was to use nullfs, but everytime I try to edit (vi) a file in the nullfs mounted directory, the system panics. Everything else works (or seens to work) ok. I already had problems with vi and nullfs in NetBSD, caused by the mmap nature of vi. Maybe this is the case, too. This problem happens at 2.1.0 and 2.1.5 releases. Does not matter if the nullfs is mounted read-only or if vi is called in the its read- only from (view). Is this already known ? Jonny PS: I'm now using NFS to localhost, as a workaround. -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 ( Job ) jonny@cisi.coppe.ufrj.br Network Manager UFRJ/COPPE/CISI Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 21:07:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA07781 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [207.67.176.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07761 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by covina.lightside.com (8.8.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA26693 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:07:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: JDK 1.0.2 SIGSEGV?! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone tried the FreeBSD JDK 1.0.2 that was recently posted? For some reason, it always crashes with a SIGSEGV, and prints: SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation sig 11, code 12 or 0xc, sc 0xefbfd710, addr 0x1c Full thread dump: ... and then it hangs here ... GDB is useless because the binary is stripped. ktrace is useless because no system calls are being accessed (other than break to grab more memory). Has anything in -current changed since the JDK was built (I'm running today's -current) that could cause this problem? Has anyone successfully run the JDK? I know this package is unsupported by the author, that's why I'm posting here. Help! -- Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 5 23:50:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA19570 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA19565 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA02320 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610060650.XAA02320@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: su problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 23:50:49 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I noticed that if i tried to start program in my rc.local like su -l hasty it gets a core dump... Anyone seen this? Tnks, Amancio