From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 00:19:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA04464 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:19:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA04456 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA18013; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:18:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611170818.AAA18013@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Erich Boleyn cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:33:19 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:18:13 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >I would argue that the BIOS values should always be used, and the RTC >> >values simply ignored unless something specific (like the SMP probe) needs >> >them. >> >> I seem to recall that there was a problem with doing this on some systems, >> but since my memory is so vague, I'm inclined to agree with you. :-) It's >> probably that old FreeBSD bootblocks didn't pass in the BIOS information (via >> the bootinfo struct)...but this was so long ago that I don't think it matters >> anymore. Perhaps it should use the RTC numbers if the passed-in BIOS numbers >> are zero? > >There is a "valid" flag set in the info passed by the bootloader. You'll >see it if you look in "i386/i386/machdep.c". > >What I'd suggest is to use the values from the bootloader if they are >"valid", or otherwise use the RTC values. Just take out the current >parts where it complains if the RTC values are different from the >BIOS values. It is confusing and on many modern machines they are usually >different anyway, so you'll see it all the time for no good reason. Agreed. >As to there being a problem a while ago... the problem was that the >FreeBSD bootblocks read the return value from the EAX register for the >upper memory BIOS call, where it is only valid for the AX register. Some >machines return garbage in the high bits of EAX. The proper thing to >do is to zero the top 16 bits of EAX after the INT 0x15 AH=0x88 call >in the bootloader, not in the kernel proper (again, because some >bootloaders might pass valid information from other BIOS interfaces). I think the plan is to switch to your bootblocks eventually, but in the meantime, do you happen to know if the current FreeBSD bootblocks still suffer from this problem? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 01:42:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA09045 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:42:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA09040 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:42:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id BAA00643 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:42:34 -0800 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 01:42:34 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199611170942.BAA00643@monk.via.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Token Ring help needed X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to get the ISC DHCP working on a machine (BSDi) with a token ring interface. I need to learn how to decipher raw Token Ring packets. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks! joe From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 02:17:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA10243 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:17:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA10236 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA18539; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (proff@localhost) by suburbia.net (8.7.4/Proff-950810) id VAA17864; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:16:46 +1100 From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199611171016.VAA17864@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... To: spork@super-g.com (S) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:16:45 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "S" at Nov 16, 96 05:03:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's nasty and easy... If you're on Bugtraq, you saw it. If anyone with > more knowledge on this issue can check it out, please post to the list so > everyone can free themselves of this vulnerability. Root in under 15 > seconds with an account on the machine. If you need the 'sploit, please > mail me here and I'll send it to you. I verified it on FBSD, NetBSD, > Linux so far... > > TIA > > Charles > The bug is platform independent. See the BOS archives for fixes. -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ |Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | |proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | |proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | C7F81C2AA32D7D4E4D360A2ED2098E0D | +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 02:25:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA10475 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from platon.man.lublin.pl (platon.man.lublin.pl [192.147.37.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA10469 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (hero@localhost) by platon.man.lublin.pl (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24296 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:33:49 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:33:49 +0100 (MET) From: Henryk Czapski To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk help From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 02:47:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA11209 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:47:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (root@zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA11196 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id LAA28739 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:47:45 +0100 From: Tomas Klockar Received: (dateck@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA16408 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:47:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199611171047.LAA16408@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: PnP in 2.1.6 and 2.2 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:47:44 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a question. Does anyone know if the 2.1.6-RELEASE or 2.2-RELEASE will support initialazion of pnp cards. I have an old 486 which doesn't support pnp My two pnp cards one 3c509 and one gravis ultrasound PnP pro need this. On my network card I can turned off PnP but the gravis card doesn't have this feature. Also does any of them support the gravis card so I can get some sound out of it. Thanks in advance. /Tomas -- Tomas Klockar can be found at the following adresses: Kårhusvägen 4:23 | Furuvägen 102 | dateck@ludd.luth.se 977 54 Luleå | 871 52 Härnösand | dateck@solace.mh.se Tel: +46-920-231335 | Tel: +46-611-13393 | d94-tkl@sm.luth.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 04:09:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA16023 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 04:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA16018; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 04:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12639; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:08:58 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id NAA31352; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:08:24 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.2/keltia-uucp-2.9) id MAA18803; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 12:58:53 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 12:58:53 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50.05 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2686 In-Reply-To: ; from Marc G. Fournier on Nov 16, 1996 23:57:40 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Marc G. Fournier: > Please send details on 'sploit...would like to test on my Solaris > 2.5.1 box as well... The bug is fixed in FreeBSD 2.2, 2.1.6 and 3.0-CURRENT. Here is Allman's fix that has been committed: From: Eric Allman Subject: Re: [leshka@leshka.chuvashia.su: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2).] Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:15:08 -0800 Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee yet -- I can't reproduce the problem (on BSD/OS 2.0.1). Perhaps it is because I already have a daemon running -- I just get "problem creating SMTP socket" logged a few times. It wouldn't have worked for me anyhow; I disallow setuid binaries on my /tmp filesystem (always a good idea!). However, I believe that _other_ people can reproduce this, and that's good enough. I'm going to take a couple of precautions (patch enclosed). I would appreciate it if as many as possible of you can give me the "before and after" info on this, just to make sure I've patched it successfully. As I say, since I can't reproduce it, I'm kind of stuck for a verification. Many thanks for forwarding this. eric ------- main.c ------- *** - Wed Dec 31 16:00:00 1969 --- main.c Sat Nov 16 07:07:17 1996 *************** *** 493,507 **** { case MD_DAEMON: case MD_FGDAEMON: ! # ifdef DAEMON ! if (RealUid != 0) ! { ! usrerr("Permission denied"); ! exit(EX_USAGE); ! } ! vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); ! /* fall through ... */ ! # else usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); ExitStat = EX_USAGE; break; --- 493,499 ---- { case MD_DAEMON: case MD_FGDAEMON: ! # ifndef DAEMON usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); ExitStat = EX_USAGE; break; *************** *** 899,904 **** --- 891,904 ---- /* fall through ... */ case MD_DAEMON: + /* check for permissions */ + if (RealUid != 0) + { + usrerr("Permission denied"); + exit(EX_USAGE); + } + vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); + /* remove things that don't make sense in daemon mode */ FullName = NULL; GrabTo = FALSE; *************** *** 1932,1937 **** --- 1932,1946 ---- syslog(LOG_INFO, "restarting %s on signal", SaveArgv[0]); #endif releasesignal(SIGHUP); + if (setuid(RealUid) < 0 || setgid(RealGid) < 0) + { + #ifdef LOG + if (LogLevel > 0) + syslog(LOG_ALERT, "could not set[ug]id(%d, %d): %m", + RealUid, RealGid); + #endif + exit(EX_OSERR); + } execv(SaveArgv[0], (ARGV_T) SaveArgv); #ifdef LOG if (LogLevel > 0) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #28: Sun Nov 10 13:37:41 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 05:52:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA19328 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 05:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA19321 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 05:52:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.2/8.8.2/frmug-1.2) with UUCP id OAA12071 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:52:30 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xp11.frmug.org (8.8.2/8.7.3/xp11-uucp-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA18383 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:05:37 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611171205.NAA18383@xp11.frmug.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: syncronizing release numbers Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:05:37 +0100 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, >jkh 96/11/11 06:18:41 > > Modified: lkm/syscons/snake snake_saver.c > Log: > Make snake 3.0-CURRENT here. > > There's gotta be a better way of syncronizing our release numbers. :-) What about this: Index: snake_saver.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home2h/FreeBSD.cvsroot/src/lkm/syscons/snake/snake_saver.c,v retrieving revision 1.11 diff -u -r1.11 snake_saver.c --- snake_saver.c 1996/11/11 14:18:40 1.11 +++ snake_saver.c 1996/11/17 11:56:48 @@ -35,6 +35,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include @@ -45,16 +46,26 @@ void (*current_saver)(int blank); void (*old_saver)(int blank); +#define SAVES_LEN 30 /* "FreeBSD-X.X-XXXXXX-SNAP" is 23 */ + static void snake_saver(int blank) { - const char saves[] = {"FreeBSD-3.0-CURRENT"}; - static u_char *savs[sizeof(saves)-1]; + static char saves[SAVES_LEN + 1]; + static u_char *savs[SAVES_LEN]; static int dirx, diry; + static int saves_len = 0; int f; scr_stat *scp = cur_console; if (blank) { + if (!saves_len) { + strcpy(saves, ostype); + strcat(saves, "-"); + strcat(saves, osrelease); + saves_len = strlen(saves); + } + if (!scrn_blanked) { fillw((FG_LIGHTGREY|BG_BLACK)<<8 | scr_map[0x20], Crtat, scp->xsize * scp->ysize); @@ -62,7 +73,7 @@ dirx = (scp->xpos ? 1 : -1); diry = (scp->ypos ? scp->xsize : -scp->xsize); - for (f=0; f< sizeof(saves)-1; f++) + for (f=0; f< saves_len; f++) savs[f] = (u_char *)Crtat + 2 * (scp->xpos+scp->ypos*scp->xsize); *(savs[0]) = scr_map[*saves]; @@ -76,8 +87,8 @@ if (scrn_blanked++ < 4) return; scrn_blanked = 1; - *(savs[sizeof(saves)-2]) = scr_map[0x20]; - for (f=sizeof(saves)-2; f > 0; f--) + *(savs[saves_len - 1]) = scr_map[0x20]; + for (f=saves_len - 1; f > 0; f--) savs[f] = savs[f-1]; f = (savs[0] - (u_char *)Crtat) / 2; if ((f % scp->xsize) == 0 || @@ -89,7 +100,7 @@ (random() % 20) == 0) diry = -diry; savs[0] += 2*dirx + 2*diry; - for (f=sizeof(saves)-2; f>=0; f--) + for (f=saves_len - 1; f>=0; f--) *(savs[f]) = scr_map[saves[f]]; } else { ------ ------ Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr (smtp) charnier@xp11.frmug.org (uucp) ``a PC not running FreeBSD is like a venusian with no tentacles'' ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 06:31:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA28799 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 06:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA28775 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 06:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id BAA19697; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:21:50 +1100 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:21:50 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199611171421.BAA19697@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dg@root.com, erich@uruk.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I seem to recall that there was a problem with doing this on some systems, >> but since my memory is so vague, I'm inclined to agree with you. :-) It's >> probably that old FreeBSD bootblocks didn't pass in the BIOS information (via >> the bootinfo struct)...but this was so long ago that I don't think it matters >> anymore. Perhaps it should use the RTC numbers if the passed-in BIOS numbers >> are zero? > >There is a "valid" flag set in the info passed by the bootloader. You'll >see it if you look in "i386/i386/machdep.c". Support for the really old bootblocks should be dropped, and the RTC numbers should never be used. This takes less code and works better. >As to there being a problem a while ago... the problem was that the >FreeBSD bootblocks read the return value from the EAX register for the >upper memory BIOS call, where it is only valid for the AX register. Some >machines return garbage in the high bits of EAX. The proper thing to >do is to zero the top 16 bits of EAX after the INT 0x15 AH=0x88 call >in the bootloader, not in the kernel proper (again, because some >bootloaders might pass valid information from other BIOS interfaces). There will have to be a new version number just to fix this. The bits need to be cleared in the kernel for the current version. Perhaps support for all old boot blocks should be dropped. It is reasonable to require that the (interface) version number of the bootblocks is >= that of the kernel to reduce the number of cases. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 09:31:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA16233 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:31:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from quagmire.ki.net (root@quagmire.ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA16211 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by quagmire.ki.net (8.8.2/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA19670 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 12:30:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 12:30:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Advise needed (readv()/writev()) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I've pretty much gone through "Unix Network Programming" and tried everything I can think of as relevant insofar as writing information to a socket and then reading it back out at the other end...and have yet to find a method of doing *exactly* what I'd like to do. What I want to do is send a block of data across a link (X bytes) and have the other side read in X bytes. Then, I want the sending send to send over another X bytes, and the receiving end to receive another X bytes. The trick seems to be in getting the receiving end to *know* that X bytes have been sent. Think of the following example. I have a server that opens up a file that consists 1 page of information, and each file acts as a page break. I want the receiving end to receive page one and write it to a file. Then receive page two and write that to a seperate file. Now, from what I've been able to accomplish, I can get sender to send one page, and receiver to receive one page, but if I get sender to send two pages, then receiver receives both as one. What I've thought of doing was to use 'readv/writev', since then I could send across a page as an iovec structure, have readv read it in, process it and then go back and read the next page...and from what I've read in the book, this *should* work...but writev is returning -1 for the following sequence of events, which looks like: if( (fd = open(TESTFILE, O_RDONLY)) != -1) { fstat(fd, &fi); /* get file info...needed for file size */ iov[0].iov_base = mmap(NULL, fi.st_size, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, fd, 0); iov[0].iov_len = fi.st_size; if(iov[0].iov_base == (caddr_t) -1) { fprintf(stderr, "MMAP() failed\n"); exit(1); } close(fd); n = writev(newsockfd, &iov[0], 1); printf("wrote %d bytes\n", n); } else { printf("failed to open: %s\n", TESTFILE); } So, can anyone suggestion what it is that I'm doing wrong here, that the write is failing? I'm pretty much blindly following the example in the book, and can't see anything syntatically incorrect :( PS. my understanding from "the book" is that with readv, I'm assured that the read will return with the number of bytes specified by iov_len, so that the multiple reads are hidden behind the function call... Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 10:59:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA26513 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26497 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:59:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <17140(7)>; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:59:03 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177557>; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:58:59 -0800 To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Advise needed (readv()/writev()) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Nov 96 09:30:49 PST." Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:58:57 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Nov17.105859pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When writev returns -1, use perror to find out why. readv will not do multiple reads; its behavior is exactly like read except that it will do scatter/gather I/O into your buffers. If you really really really want to do this, use recvmsg() on the socket and set flag MSG_WAITALL. This is not portable to non-4.4BSD machines, so you might do better just doing a looping read(). If you don't know how big the pages are in advance, you need to use a fixed-length header that says how big the following data is. For an example of such a protocol, see ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/ draft-odell-sfrp-00.txt . Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 11:15:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00895 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [199.184.181.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00849 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from right.PCS (right.pcs. [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15776; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 12:36:28 -0600 (CST) Received: (jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id TAA04944; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:13:09 GMT Message-Id: <199611171913.TAA04944@right.PCS> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:13:08 -0600 From: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Advise needed (readv()/writev()) References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Marc G. Fournier on Nov 17, 1996 12:30:49 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marc G. Fournier writes: > What I want to do is send a block of data across a link (X bytes) > and have the other side read in X bytes. Then, I want the sending send to > send over another X bytes, and the receiving end to receive another X bytes. What you do is send a header block across first, that tells the receiver how many bytes are in the data page. Then your receiver knows how many bytes to expect per page. I've attached some quick-n-dirty sample code at the end for your perusal. > What I've thought of doing was to use 'readv/writev', since then > I could send across a page as an iovec structure, have readv read it in, > process it and then go back and read the next page...and from what I've read > in the book, this *should* work...but writev is returning -1 for the following > sequence of events, which looks like: All readv/writev does for you is allow your buffers to be non-contiguous in memory. Otherwise, they are conceptually identical to read/write. > PS. my understanding from "the book" is that with readv, I'm assured that > the read will return with the number of bytes specified by iov_len, so > that the multiple reads are hidden behind the function call... No. All readv does is guarantee that your iov structures will be filled in order; eg: iov[1] will not be filled until iov[0] is completely filled. It does not guarantee that iov[0] will be filled. When reading from a socket, the call: read(socket, buffer, nbytes) means "read a maximum of nbytes from the socket", and return. It does not mean "read exactly nbytes and return". -- Jonathan ------------------------------ cut here ------------------------------ # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # server.c # client.c # echo x - server.c sed 's/^X//' >server.c << 'END-of-server.c' X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X X#define TESTFILE "/kernel" X#define TEST_PORT 5005 X Xint Xmain() X{ X int fd, nfd, cnt, n; X struct stat st; X caddr_t maddr; X struct sockaddr_in sin; X size_t datasize; X X if ((fd = open(TESTFILE, O_RDONLY)) < 0) X err(1, "open"); X if (fstat(fd, &st) < 0) X err(1, "fstat"); X if ((maddr = mmap(NULL, st.st_size, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, fd, 0)) < 0) X err(1, "mmap"); X close(fd); X X if ((fd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) < 0) X err(1, "socket"); X sin.sin_family = AF_INET; X sin.sin_port = ntohs(TEST_PORT); X sin.sin_addr.s_addr = INADDR_ANY; X if (bind(fd, (struct sockaddr *)&sin, sizeof(sin)) < 0) X err(1, "bind"); X n = 1; X if (setsockopt(fd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, &n, sizeof(n)) < 0) X err(1, "setsockopt"); X if (listen(fd, 1) < 0) X err(1, "listen"); X X nfd = accept(fd, (struct sockaddr *)&sin, &n); X if (nfd < 0) X err(1, "accept"); X X cnt = 3; X while (cnt-- != 0) { /* set to 1 for initial test */ X X /* assume that st.st_size fits in a (size_t) chunk, X otherwise we will need multiple writes */ X datasize = st.st_size; X n = write(nfd, (char *)&datasize, sizeof(datasize)); X if (n < 0) X errx(1, "failed to write data size to socket: [%d bytes]", n); X printf("Wrote data size: %d bytes\n", n); X X n = write(nfd, (char *)maddr, datasize); X if (n < 0) X errx(1, "failed to write data to socket: [%d bytes]", n); X printf("Wrote data: %d bytes\n", n); X } X /* write zero length marker for end of transmission */ X datasize = 0; X n = write(nfd, (char *)&datasize, sizeof(datasize)); X if (n < 0) X errx(1, "failed to write data size to socket: [%d bytes]", n); X close(nfd); X return (1); X} END-of-server.c echo x - client.c sed 's/^X//' >client.c << 'END-of-client.c' X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X X#define TESTFILE "/kernel" X#define TEST_HOST "127.0.0.1" X#define TEST_PORT 5005 X#define NBYTES 8192 X Xvoid Xxread(int fd, char *buf, size_t bytes) X{ X int n; X char *p = buf; X X while (bytes) { X n = read(fd, p, bytes); X if (n < 0) X err(1, "read"); X if (n == 0 && bytes != 0) X errx(1, "short file on read, %d bytes left", bytes); X fprintf(stderr, "Read: %d bytes\n", n); X bytes -= n; X p += n; X } X} X X Xint Xmain() X{ X int fd, bytes; X char buf[NBYTES]; X struct sockaddr_in sin; X size_t datasize; X X if ((fd = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) < 0) X err(1, "socket"); X sin.sin_family = AF_INET; X sin.sin_port = ntohs(TEST_PORT); X sin.sin_addr.s_addr = inet_addr(TEST_HOST); X if (connect(fd, (struct sockaddr *)&sin, sizeof(sin)) < 0) X err(1, "connect"); X X for (;;) { X xread(fd, (char *)&datasize, sizeof(datasize)); X if (datasize == 0) X break; X bytes = 0; X while (datasize) { X size_t chunk = datasize > NBYTES ? NBYTES : datasize; X xread(fd, buf, chunk); X if (write(1, buf, chunk) != chunk) X err(1, "write"); X datasize -= chunk; X bytes += chunk; X } X fprintf(stderr, "Read page, total bytes: %d\n", bytes); X } X return (1); X} END-of-client.c exit From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 11:16:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01463 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:16:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01437; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:16:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <17142(1)>; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:15:44 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177557>; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:15:31 -0800 To: Bruce Evans cc: mrcpu@cdsnet.net, se@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IRQ sharing on PCI? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Nov 96 04:42:50 PST." <199611161242.XAA17993@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:15:22 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Nov17.111531pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199611161242.XAA17993@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans wrote: >Doesn't a typical system have only 3 or 4 PCI slots and many more >than 3 or 4 IRQs, so it is hard to run out of IRQs? Some BIOS's prefer to give only one interrupt to all PCI devices anyway. My old Intel Somethingorother(Plato?) motherboard had to be tricked into assigning my ethernet and SCSI two different IRQ's; the first time I booted with both present there were several IRQ's available to the BIOS and it still assigned them both the same. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 13:30:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA16112 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:30:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.accesscom.com (ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16105 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:30:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from aic1.accesscom.com (aic1.accesscom.com [205.226.156.10]) by ns2.accesscom.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA31861 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:30:33 -0800 Received: (from giri@localhost) by aic1.accesscom.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02722 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:30:33 -0800 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:30:33 -0800 From: Giritharan Rashiyamany Message-Id: <199611172130.NAA02722@aic1.accesscom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: local install Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ALl, I'm trying to install 2.2-ALPHA from the second h/d (sd1) to the first h/d (sd0). The dist. resides under /usr/snap on sd1 - which itself contains a working 2.1R. Now during installation I chose the type of media as File System, but it fails to locate the distribution. I presume I fumbled on the path. These are some of 'em that I tried - and of course failed. /usr/snap sd1 /dev/sd1 /dev/sd1s1e sd1:/usr/snap Appreciate any help on this. Thanks. RG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 13:56:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA16971 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:56:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.sdf.se (www.sdf.se [194.218.219.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16964 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from what.sdf.se (matte@what [192.168.1.15]) by www.sdf.se (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id WAA20627; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:55:04 +0100 (MET) Received: (from matte@localhost) by what.sdf.se (8.8.2/8.8.2) id WAA19161; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:52:57 +0100 (MET) From: Mattias Karlsson Message-Id: <199611172152.WAA19161@what.sdf.se> Subject: Re: Hate to ask more about sockets...but... To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:52:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Nov 16, 96 03:13:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > if( (fd = open(TESTFILE, O_RDONLY)) != -1) { > fstat(fd, &fi); > fp = mmap(NULL, fi.st_size, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, fd, 0); > if(fp == (caddr_t) -1) { > fprintf(stderr, "MMAP() failed\n"); > exit(1); > } > close(fd); > while(cnt-- != 0) { /* set to 1 for initial test */ > start = time(0); > nwritten = write(newsockfd, START, strlen(START)); Does this file you are trying to send contain NULL chars? in that case you probably have the problem here ... then the strlen call only return to the number of bytes to the NULL char .. /Matte From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 14:26:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18390 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:26:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18374 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:26:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA18864; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:25:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611172225.OAA18864@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: erich@uruk.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:21:50 +1100." <199611171421.BAA19697@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:25:16 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Perhaps support >for all old boot blocks should be dropped. It is reasonable to require >that the (interface) version number of the bootblocks is >= that of the >kernel to reduce the number of cases. I strongly disagree with this, BTW. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 15:20:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20715 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from uruk.org (root@ns.uruk.org [198.145.95.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20650 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:19:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from uruk.org [127.0.0.1] (erich) by uruk.org with esmtp (Exim 0.53 #1) id E0vPGZx-0006py-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:24:45 -0800 To: Bruce Evans , dg@root.com cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:21:50 +1100." <199611171421.BAA19697@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:24:45 -0800 From: Erich Boleyn Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > >There is a "valid" flag set in the info passed by the bootloader. You'll > >see it if you look in "i386/i386/machdep.c". > > Support for the really old bootblocks should be dropped, and the RTC > numbers should never be used. This takes less code and works better. > > >As to there being a problem a while ago... the problem was that the > >FreeBSD bootblocks read the return value from the EAX register for the > >upper memory BIOS call, where it is only valid for the AX register. Some > >machines return garbage in the high bits of EAX. The proper thing to > >do is to zero the top 16 bits of EAX after the INT 0x15 AH=0x88 call > >in the bootloader, not in the kernel proper (again, because some > >bootloaders might pass valid information from other BIOS interfaces). > > There will have to be a new version number just to fix this. The bits > need to be cleared in the kernel for the current version. Perhaps support > for all old boot blocks should be dropped. It is reasonable to require > that the (interface) version number of the bootblocks is >= that of the > kernel to reduce the number of cases. [to which David Greenman replies to the second sentence in the last paragraph and on:] > I strongly disagree with this, BTW. Hmm... this is starting to get complicated. I don't really want to fuss with the old-style BSD booting interface much because it needs a lot of fixing and simply can't be straightforwardly extended to include all the new things one might want to do. How about we leave the existing boot interface the way it is, and I'll generate a patch to use the new Multiboot interface (which can happily co-exist with the BSD methodology). Some really big advantages of the Multiboot stuff include of course the extra memory information, but also a real text command-line (i.e. no patches to the bootloader for every new kernel option supported) and multiple modules passed at boot-time to the kernel would then be supported. What do you think? -- Erich Stefan Boleyn \_ E-mail (preferred): Mad Genius wanna-be, CyberMuffin \__ (finger me for other stats) Web: http://www.uruk.org/~erich/ Motto: "I'll live forever or die trying" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 15:27:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21289 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [206.222.77.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA21260 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA08236; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:25:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 18:25:23 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Mayo To: David Greenman cc: Bruce Evans , erich@uruk.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199611172225.OAA18864@root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, David Greenman wrote: > >Perhaps support > >for all old boot blocks should be dropped. It is reasonable to require > >that the (interface) version number of the bootblocks is >= that of the > >kernel to reduce the number of cases. > > I strongly disagree with this, BTW. > > -DG Just to agree with DG here, my computer has less base mem than the kernel expects, and it isn't an old computer -> it's a dual PPro from digital. Nevertheless, it's BIOS basemem is only 635K, which is < RTC basemem of 640K. If BSD didn't listen to the BIOS value from the bootloader, chances are my system would be toast with fbsd... Not to mention the older 386 and 486 machines I run -- who knows what old bootloader stuff these use! So, like David, I'd definately by happy to see this stuff stay the way it is. I missed part of the discussion, so feel free to quite me if I'm off on the wrong path here :-) -mark > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > --------------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | RingZero Comp. vinyl.quickweb.com/mark | --------------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 15:29:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21398 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA21370 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:29:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA19129; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:27:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611172327.PAA19129@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Erich Boleyn cc: Bruce Evans , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:24:45 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:27:51 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hmm... this is starting to get complicated. I don't really want to fuss >with the old-style BSD booting interface much because it needs a lot of >fixing and simply can't be straightforwardly extended to include all the >new things one might want to do. > >How about we leave the existing boot interface the way it is, and I'll >generate a patch to use the new Multiboot interface (which can happily >co-exist with the BSD methodology). Some really big advantages of >the Multiboot stuff include of course the extra memory information, but >also a real text command-line (i.e. no patches to the bootloader for >every new kernel option supported) and multiple modules passed at boot-time >to the kernel would then be supported. > >What do you think? This is fine with me; I just object to dropping support for older bootblocks. I don't object to dropping support for really-old (pre-2.0.5) bootblocks, however. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 15:54:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA22759 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA22748 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:54:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA02014; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:50:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <328FA4DC.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:50:52 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erich Boleyn CC: Bruce Evans , dg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Erich Boleyn wrote: > > How about we leave the existing boot interface the way it is, and I'll > generate a patch to use the new Multiboot interface (which can happily > co-exist with the BSD methodology). Some really big advantages of > the Multiboot stuff include of course the extra memory information, but > also a real text command-line (i.e. no patches to the bootloader for > every new kernel option supported) and multiple modules passed at boot-time > to the kernel would then be supported. > > What do you think? > well the whole boot/load area does need some work, though one migh argue that one only boots aoocasionally, and that it can be made to wrk at present so "if it aint broken, don't fix it" but of course it is quite ugly (and I had a lot to do with it) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 16:05:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA23526 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA23500 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA15783; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:34:35 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611180004.KAA15783@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from Mark Mayo at "Nov 17, 96 06:25:23 pm" To: mark@quickweb.com (Mark Mayo) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:34:34 +1030 (CST) Cc: dg@root.com, bde@zeta.org.au, erich@uruk.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Mayo stands accused of saying: > > Just to agree with DG here, my computer has less base mem than the kernel > expects, and it isn't an old computer -> it's a dual PPro from digital. > Nevertheless, it's BIOS basemem is only 635K, which is < RTC basemem of > 640K. If BSD didn't listen to the BIOS value from the bootloader, chances > are my system would be toast with fbsd... Not unless you use APM or the (nonexistent yet) v86 BIOS disk driver. The adjusted BIOS memory size has nothing to do with how much memory you have; the BIOS adjustment simply allows the BIOS to keep an area for itself. > | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 16:06:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA23594 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:06:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA23578 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA02027; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:52:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <328FA543.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:52:35 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@Root.COM CC: Erich Boleyn , Bruce Evans , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD References: <199611172327.PAA19129@root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: > This is fine with me; I just object to dropping support for older > bootblocks. I don't object to dropping support for really-old (pre-2.0.5) > bootblocks, however. especially when it's so easy to install new ones.. (disklabel -B wd0) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 16:42:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA25642 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA25622 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 16:42:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA00343; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:37:30 +1100 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:37:30 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199611180037.LAA00343@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dg@Root.COM, mark@quickweb.com Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, erich@uruk.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >Perhaps support >> >for all old boot blocks should be dropped. It is reasonable to require >> >that the (interface) version number of the bootblocks is >= that of the >> >kernel to reduce the number of cases. >> >> I strongly disagree with this, BTW. > >Just to agree with DG here, my computer has less base mem than the kernel >expects, and it isn't an old computer -> it's a dual PPro from digital. >Nevertheless, it's BIOS basemem is only 635K, which is < RTC basemem of >640K. If BSD didn't listen to the BIOS value from the bootloader, chances >are my system would be toast with fbsd... This is almost the opposite case to what David is disagreeing with. You're saying that you need new bootblocks. Very old bootblocks didn't supply the BIOS memory sizes. I doubt that you actually need them. -stable doesn't even implement using the BIOS basemem. >Not to mention the older 386 >and 486 machines I run -- who knows what old bootloader stuff these use! It continues to work. If you update the kernel, it is very easy to update the kernel at the same time (use disklabel -B). The requirement that new bootblocks works with old kernels ensure that the new bootblocks can boot the backup copy of the old kernel. If you forget to update the bootblocks, then it is easy to boot the old kernel using the old boot blocks to fix things up. Note that bootblock interface changes very rarely (in fact it hasn't changed, except for extensions, since it was introduced 2 years ago), but it is a good idea to keep them up to date anyway to pick up bug fixes (bootblocks more than a month old have serious bugs). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 17:16:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA27439 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:16:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27427 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:16:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id MAA01279; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:11:51 +1100 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:11:51 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199611180111.MAA01279@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, dg@Root.COM, erich@uruk.org Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hmm... this is starting to get complicated. I don't really want to fuss >with the old-style BSD booting interface much because it needs a lot of >fixing and simply can't be straightforwardly extended to include all the >new things one might want to do. Complicated for us but not for you :-). If we keep supporting all the interfaces except the very old (pre-2.0) ones, then you can just use the current one to pass the memory sizes etc. in case the kernel doesn't support the text interface. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 17:37:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA28602 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA28594 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:37:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id MAA01807; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:31:37 +1100 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:31:37 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199611180131.MAA01807@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dg@root.com, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, erich@uruk.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> This is fine with me; I just object to dropping support for older >> bootblocks. I don't object to dropping support for really-old (pre-2.0.5) >> bootblocks, however. > >especially when it's so easy to install new ones.. > >(disklabel -B wd0) I had this in mind when I suggested dropping support for the not so old interfaces. `disklabel -B' was too dangerous to use routinely before 2.0.5. This discussion is moot if pre-2.0.5 is really-old. `struct bootinfo' hasn't changed since 6 months before 2.0.5R :-). I thought that really-old meant pre-2.0 and old meant pre-2.0.5. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 19:13:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA04423 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:13:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04398; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (alecto.physics.uiuc.edu [128.174.83.167]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA147960; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:12:47 -0600 Received: by alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA27437; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:12:33 -0600 From: igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (Igor Roshchin) Message-Id: <199611180312.VAA27437@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert), eric@sendmail.org Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:12:33 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Ollivier Robert" at Nov 17, 96 12:58:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! May be I am missing something, but I was not able to compile the patched version of the sendmail 8.7.6.4, as it appears in FreeBSD distribution (sup.freebsd.org). main.o: Undefined symbol `_vendor_daemon_setup' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Is it a problem due to the version of FreeBSD ? I tried it on 2.1.5-stable and 2.1.5-release; - results were the same. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. IgoR > > ------- main.c ------- > *** - Wed Dec 31 16:00:00 1969 > --- main.c Sat Nov 16 07:07:17 1996 > *************** > *** 493,507 **** > { > case MD_DAEMON: > case MD_FGDAEMON: > ! # ifdef DAEMON > ! if (RealUid != 0) > ! { > ! usrerr("Permission denied"); > ! exit(EX_USAGE); > ! } > ! vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); > ! /* fall through ... */ > ! # else > usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); > ExitStat = EX_USAGE; > break; > --- 493,499 ---- > { > case MD_DAEMON: > case MD_FGDAEMON: > ! # ifndef DAEMON > usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); > ExitStat = EX_USAGE; > break; > *************** > *** 899,904 **** > --- 891,904 ---- > /* fall through ... */ > > case MD_DAEMON: > + /* check for permissions */ > + if (RealUid != 0) > + { > + usrerr("Permission denied"); > + exit(EX_USAGE); > + } > + vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); > + > /* remove things that don't make sense in daemon mode */ > FullName = NULL; > GrabTo = FALSE; > *************** > *** 1932,1937 **** > --- 1932,1946 ---- > syslog(LOG_INFO, "restarting %s on signal", SaveArgv[0]); > #endif > releasesignal(SIGHUP); > + if (setuid(RealUid) < 0 || setgid(RealGid) < 0) > + { > + #ifdef LOG > + if (LogLevel > 0) > + syslog(LOG_ALERT, "could not set[ug]id(%d, %d): %m", > + RealUid, RealGid); > + #endif > + exit(EX_OSERR); > + } > execv(SaveArgv[0], (ARGV_T) SaveArgv); > #ifdef LOG > if (LogLevel > 0) > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 19:42:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA05900 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:42:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (root@knecht.oxford.reference.com [205.217.47.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA05892; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (eric@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by knecht.Sendmail.ORG (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id TAA21895; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:42:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611180342.TAA21895@knecht.Sendmail.ORG> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (Igor Roshchin) From: Eric Allman X-URL: http://WWW.InReference.COM/~eric cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert), freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... In-reply-to: Mail from igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (Igor Roshchin) dated Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:12:33 CST <199611180312.VAA27437@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:42:58 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This patch is against 8.8.2, not 8.7.6. You need to upgrade to 8.8; 8.7.x is no long supported. eric ============= In Reply To: =========================================== : From: igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (Igor Roshchin) : Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... : Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:12:33 -0600 (CST) : Hello! : : May be I am missing something, : but I was not able to compile the patched version : of the sendmail 8.7.6.4, : as it appears in FreeBSD distribution (sup.freebsd.org). : : main.o: Undefined symbol `_vendor_daemon_setup' referenced from text segment : *** Error code 1 : : : Is it a problem due to the version of FreeBSD ? : I tried it on 2.1.5-stable and 2.1.5-release; - : results were the same. : : Thanks in advance for your suggestions. : : IgoR : : : > : > ------- main.c ------- : > *** - Wed Dec 31 16:00:00 1969 : > --- main.c Sat Nov 16 07:07:17 1996 : > *************** : > *** 493,507 **** : > { : > case MD_DAEMON: : > case MD_FGDAEMON: : > ! # ifdef DAEMON : > ! if (RealUid != 0) : > ! { : > ! usrerr("Permission denied"); : > ! exit(EX_USAGE); : > ! } : > ! vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); : > ! /* fall through ... */ : > ! # else : > usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); : > ExitStat = EX_USAGE; : > break; : > --- 493,499 ---- : > { : > case MD_DAEMON: : > case MD_FGDAEMON: : > ! # ifndef DAEMON : > usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); : > ExitStat = EX_USAGE; : > break; : > *************** : > *** 899,904 **** : > --- 891,904 ---- : > /* fall through ... */ : > : > case MD_DAEMON: : > + /* check for permissions */ : > + if (RealUid != 0) : > + { : > + usrerr("Permission denied"); : > + exit(EX_USAGE); : > + } : > + vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); : > + : > /* remove things that don't make sense in daemon mode */ : > FullName = NULL; : > GrabTo = FALSE; : > *************** : > *** 1932,1937 **** : > --- 1932,1946 ---- : > syslog(LOG_INFO, "restarting %s on signal", SaveArgv[0]); : > #endif : > releasesignal(SIGHUP); : > + if (setuid(RealUid) < 0 || setgid(RealGid) < 0) : > + { : > + #ifdef LOG : > + if (LogLevel > 0) : > + syslog(LOG_ALERT, "could not set[ug]id(%d, %d): %m", : > + RealUid, RealGid); : > + #endif : > + exit(EX_OSERR); : > + } : > execv(SaveArgv[0], (ARGV_T) SaveArgv); : > #ifdef LOG : > if (LogLevel > 0) : > : > : From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 20:41:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08887 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:41:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from super-g.inch.com (spork@super-g.com [204.178.32.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08872; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by super-g.inch.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15352; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:39:11 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:39:11 -0600 (CST) From: "S(pork)" X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Eric Allman cc: Igor Roshchin , Ollivier Robert , freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... In-Reply-To: <199611180342.TAA21895@knecht.Sendmail.ORG> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk But if one does have to run 8.7.6 until they have time to breath, does anyone know if the error that Igor and I are seeing compiling 8.7.6 from -stable can be avoided? I first patched with the 2 line setgid, setuid patch I saw on the list, then I grabbed what was in the current -stable source and got the same error as Igor. It compiled after deleting the line in main.c that I saw in the errors, and it seems to work, but reckless deletion scares me. I wonder what the line was for.... Anyhow, any help is appreciated. Thanks, Charles On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Eric Allman wrote: > This patch is against 8.8.2, not 8.7.6. You need to upgrade to 8.8; > 8.7.x is no long supported. > > eric > > > ============= In Reply To: =========================================== > : From: igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (Igor Roshchin) > : Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... > : Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:12:33 -0600 (CST) > > : Hello! > : > : May be I am missing something, > : but I was not able to compile the patched version > : of the sendmail 8.7.6.4, > : as it appears in FreeBSD distribution (sup.freebsd.org). > : > : main.o: Undefined symbol `_vendor_daemon_setup' referenced from text segment > : *** Error code 1 > : > : > : Is it a problem due to the version of FreeBSD ? > : I tried it on 2.1.5-stable and 2.1.5-release; - > : results were the same. > : > : Thanks in advance for your suggestions. > : > : IgoR > : > : > : > > : > ------- main.c ------- > : > *** - Wed Dec 31 16:00:00 1969 > : > --- main.c Sat Nov 16 07:07:17 1996 > : > *************** > : > *** 493,507 **** > : > { > : > case MD_DAEMON: > : > case MD_FGDAEMON: > : > ! # ifdef DAEMON > : > ! if (RealUid != 0) > : > ! { > : > ! usrerr("Permission denied"); > : > ! exit(EX_USAGE); > : > ! } > : > ! vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); > : > ! /* fall through ... */ > : > ! # else > : > usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); > : > ExitStat = EX_USAGE; > : > break; > : > --- 493,499 ---- > : > { > : > case MD_DAEMON: > : > case MD_FGDAEMON: > : > ! # ifndef DAEMON > : > usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); > : > ExitStat = EX_USAGE; > : > break; > : > *************** > : > *** 899,904 **** > : > --- 891,904 ---- > : > /* fall through ... */ > : > > : > case MD_DAEMON: > : > + /* check for permissions */ > : > + if (RealUid != 0) > : > + { > : > + usrerr("Permission denied"); > : > + exit(EX_USAGE); > : > + } > : > + vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); > : > + > : > /* remove things that don't make sense in daemon mode */ > : > FullName = NULL; > : > GrabTo = FALSE; > : > *************** > : > *** 1932,1937 **** > : > --- 1932,1946 ---- > : > syslog(LOG_INFO, "restarting %s on signal", SaveArgv[0]); > : > #endif > : > releasesignal(SIGHUP); > : > + if (setuid(RealUid) < 0 || setgid(RealGid) < 0) > : > + { > : > + #ifdef LOG > : > + if (LogLevel > 0) > : > + syslog(LOG_ALERT, "could not set[ug]id(%d, %d): %m", > : > + RealUid, RealGid); > : > + #endif > : > + exit(EX_OSERR); > : > + } > : > execv(SaveArgv[0], (ARGV_T) SaveArgv); > : > #ifdef LOG > : > if (LogLevel > 0) > : > > : > > : > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 21:54:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA13395 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA13382 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:54:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id GAA06284 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 06:17:00 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199611180517.GAA06284@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: g3net: sending data over fax lines To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 06:17:00 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If someone is interested, I have written a relatively simple encoding/decoding program to send binary data across faxmodems. Full sources are available at http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/g3net.tgz (beware, a 36-hour development time cannot guarantee against bugs, and sources are updated frequently). I use it with mgetty+sendfax, but the program compiles and runs fine under djgpp, and today I will do some tests with some DOS/Windows fax packages, so it should really be a cross-platform solution. I'd say you can think of it as an alternative to UUCP. The program works as follows: ENCODER: g3net -f infile -o outfile the encoder takes a binary file and produces on output a g3-format file (where lines are shorter than 1728 pixels, but g3cat takes care of this). The g3 file contains the original data protected with a 192,255 Reed Solomon code, and scrambled in a coupled of ways to protect from lost lines. Up to about 30% of lines can be lost without data recovery problems. The encoder is intended to be used to build a g3 file which can then be sent with faxspool. It is not hard to add a "-raw" flag to faxspool to run the encoder automatically. DECODER: g3net -d -f infile -o outfile the decoder takes a received fax (g3 file produced by mgetty) and tries to reconstruct the original data applying the reverse process, thus unscrambling the data and applying error correction. The decoder could be used within "new_fax", or whatever is called by mgetty at the end of a successful reception of a fax. Decoded data can contain everything, from the source of a fax message (usually shorter by a factor of 20 than the rendered fax), to binary data (for the fun of it, I downloaded an update to the distribution using this method). KNOWN BUGS: The g3 file has lines shorter than 1728 bits. This will be fixed in future revisions; anyways, g3net takes care of this and produces regular pages. Long files gets translated into a loooong fax. Some modems accept unlimited size pages, so for them this is not a problem. in the future there ought to be a facility to split these faxes into shorter pages and reassembling them at the receiver. APPLICATIONS Using sources instead of rendered pages for sending a fax shortens the sending time for two reasons: first, fewer data are sent; second, fewer fax-pages can be sent. >From my logs negotiations and handshake take ~10 seconds at communication setup, plus ~5 sec/page. The typical rendered page (30KB ?) takes about 25 seconds to sent, whereas the source for the same data is in the 1-2KB range, taking 2-4 seconds. A 10-page document can be probably save a few minutes of communication time (not to mention the quality improvement and the ability to add automated processing of data). For data transactions, the whole process of sending a relatively short (20..100Kb of data) is probably faster by using g3net than loggin into your system, and either starting ppp/slip or using kermit or some other file transfer programs. If someone wants to play a little bit with this, I'd be glad to hear some feedback, suggestions and bug reports. Cheers Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 22:16:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA14678 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:16:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA14643; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA05595; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:15:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199611180615.WAA05595@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... In-Reply-To: from S at "Nov 17, 96 09:39:11 pm" To: spork@super-g.com (S) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 22:15:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: eric@sendmail.org, igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But if one does have to run 8.7.6 until they have time to breath, does > anyone know if the error that Igor and I are seeing compiling 8.7.6 from > -stable can be avoided? I first patched with the 2 line setgid, setuid > patch I saw on the list, then I grabbed what was in the current -stable > source and got the same error as Igor. It compiled after deleting the > line in main.c that I saw in the errors, and it seems to work, but > reckless deletion scares me. I wonder what the line was for.... > > Anyhow, any help is appreciated. Someone (who shall remain nameless) has commited a bad patch into the RELENG_2_1_0 branch. What is in there does not compile, I get the exact same error that this person has reported, and this is on a prestine RELENG_2_1_0 compile engine.... this error occured during a ``make world'', so if _vendor_daemon_setup is suppose to be defined someplace else we have a build cycle problem, if sendmail is suppose to have source code for this, someone missed a piece of the patch :-(. PLEASE FIX ASAP, as all -Stable users trying to update via the normal mechanisms to fix the sendmail security problem are going to have builds that blow up in there face. > Thanks, > > Charles > > On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Eric Allman wrote: > > > This patch is against 8.8.2, not 8.7.6. You need to upgrade to 8.8; > > 8.7.x is no long supported. > > > > eric > > > > > > ============= In Reply To: =========================================== > > : From: igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (Igor Roshchin) > > : Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... > > : Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:12:33 -0600 (CST) > > > > : Hello! > > : > > : May be I am missing something, > > : but I was not able to compile the patched version > > : of the sendmail 8.7.6.4, > > : as it appears in FreeBSD distribution (sup.freebsd.org). > > : > > : main.o: Undefined symbol `_vendor_daemon_setup' referenced from text segment > > : *** Error code 1 Yepp... the source tree is muffed up :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 23:03:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA16902 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16893 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.2/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id HAA08474; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:02:11 GMT Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:02:11 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Bill Fenner cc: Terry Lambert , scrappy@ki.net, jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sockets question... In-Reply-To: <96Nov15.113305pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Bill Fenner wrote: > 4.4BSD introduced the MSG_WAITALL flag, so if you use recv() or any of its > friends you can ask for your whole request to be performed. This is, of > course, not portable, and MSG_WAITALL won't even do the trick if your > request is larger than the socket's high water mark (e.g. SO_RECVBUF). > UnixWare 2.1.1 now supports this, I'll have to check Solaris. Maybe it's more portable than you think. >From the man pages ... MSG_WAITALL Block until the full amount of requested data can be returned. May return a smaller amount of data if a signal is caught,the connection is terminated or an error is pending for the socket. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 23:15:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA17670 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:15:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.ssi1.com (salsa.gv.ssi1.com [146.252.44.194]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA17660; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.ssi1.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA14836; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:15:12 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199611180715.XAA14836@salsa.gv.ssi1.com> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:15:12 -0800 In-Reply-To: "S(pork)" "Re: New sendmail bug..." (Nov 17, 9:39pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: "S(pork)" , Eric Allman Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... Cc: Igor Roshchin , Ollivier Robert , freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 17, 9:39pm, "S(pork)" wrote: } Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... } But if one does have to run 8.7.6 until they have time to breath, does } anyone know if the error that Igor and I are seeing compiling 8.7.6 from } -stable can be avoided? I first patched with the 2 line setgid, setuid } patch I saw on the list, then I grabbed what was in the current -stable } source and got the same error as Igor. It compiled after deleting the } line in main.c that I saw in the errors, and it seems to work, but } reckless deletion scares me. I wonder what the line was for.... } > : > + vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); It appears to be some sort of hook that only ConvexOS currently uses. >From conf.c in 8.8.3: /* ** VENDOR_DAEMON_SETUP -- special vendor setup needed for daemon mode */ void vendor_daemon_setup(e) ENVELOPE *e; { #if SECUREWARE if (getluid() != -1) { usrerr("Daemon cannot have LUID"); exit(EX_USAGE); } #endif /* SECUREWARE */ } --- Truck From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 17 23:34:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA18990 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:34:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA18943 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:33:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA05352; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:28:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32901021.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:28:33 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Luigi Rizzo CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: g3net: sending data over fax lines References: <199611180517.GAA06284@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > If someone is interested, I have written a relatively simple > encoding/decoding program to send binary data across faxmodems. > Full sources are available at > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/g3net.tgz very interesting, but.. WHY????? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 00:30:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA22241 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from procert.cert.dfn.de (procert.cert.dfn.de [134.100.14.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA22196; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:29:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiger.cert.dfn.de (ley@tiger.cert.dfn.de [134.100.14.11]) by procert.cert.dfn.de (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA25369; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:30:27 +0100 (MET) From: Wolfgang Ley Received: (from ley@localhost) by tiger.cert.dfn.de (8.8.3/8.8.3) id JAA15522; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:30:25 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611180830.JAA15522@tiger.cert.dfn.de> Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... To: spork@super-g.com (S) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:30:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: eric@sendmail.org, igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "S" at Nov 17, 96 09:39:11 pm Organization: DFN-CERT (Computer Emergency Response Team, Germany) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- S wrote: > > But if one does have to run 8.7.6 until they have time to breath, does > anyone know if the error that Igor and I are seeing compiling 8.7.6 from [...] That's simply wrong. sendmail 8.7 - 8.8.2 is affected (which includes sendmail 8.7.6). Install 8.8.3 to fix the bug. Bye, Wolfgang. - -- Wolfgang Ley, DFN-CERT, Vogt-Koelln-Str. 30, 22527 Hamburg, Germany Email: ley@cert.dfn.de Phone: +49 40 5494-2262 Fax: +49 40 5494-2241 PGP-Key available via finger ley@ftp.cert.dfn.de any key-server or via WWW from http://www.cert.dfn.de/~ley/ ...have a nice day -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i iQCVAwUBMpAengQmfXmOCknRAQGqjwP9Fw/SroRZ/+IjZygCpjNOdugjY7R1/W42 o4VdoakPR803j5+VpJDxOFvizckhQ+6JAAJZU0DMTE+Fq9BLQaDqsVIJE5C85I0s Xw9jF7cGJLcKXiNSUXLLooMdfac+lHFLNE3svLZ/F4rpCP21TWhaiIBsnxHXlY5d s8+Md6kQTDI= =qIVB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 01:00:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA24141 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA24067 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 00:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA00296; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:19:28 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199611180819.JAA00296@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: g3net: sending data over fax lines To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:19:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <32901021.41C67EA6@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 17, 96 11:28:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > > If someone is interested, I have written a relatively simple > > encoding/decoding program to send binary data across faxmodems. > > Full sources are available at > > > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/g3net.tgz > > very interesting, > but.. > WHY????? because someone might not have internet connectivity, or the ability to set up a proper data connection. This thing works in DOS as well, so the average user can simply exchange "faxes" with their favourite fax-handling program, and then process them with g3net to extract the desired info. Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 05:02:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA08260 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:02:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mhub0.tc.umn.edu (mhub0.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA08249 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from pub-5-a-181.dialup.umn.edu by mhub0.tc.umn.edu; Mon, 18 Nov 96 07:02:11 -0600 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 07:03:45 -0600 From: plim0003 X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with 2.1.0-RELEASE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <32905e54392a002@mhub0.tc.umn.edu> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The info.ad file appears to be corrupted, and I think that's why it's 1K larger than other distributions. When the installation gets to info.ad, it has an error and never touches info.ae, the last file. Must you put source on a separate disk from info. I put sbase on the info floppy, and it won't install, although the rest of the source will. I'm installing 2.1.0-RELEASE off 1.44M floppies. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 05:23:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA09073 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:23:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA09043 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA09162; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:24:18 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA20811; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:34:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:34:12 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199611181334.OAA20811@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: aic0 (/dev/rst0) problem Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After a hard time getting two WD8013EPC cards working in my router box with the aic0 driver/card present (had to wire the cards to different ports/irqs/iomem) I'm still having problems getting the tape working: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Mon Nov 18 13:52:01 MET 1996 kuku@bach.physik.rwth-aachen.de:/usr/src/sys/compile/CGATE Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock... i8254 clock: 1193402 Hz CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) #it's an Amd 486/40 CPU real memory = 8650752 (8448K bytes) avail memory = 6881280 (6720K bytes) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: MDA/hercules <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> # Hercules(!) ed0 at 0x200-0x21f irq 4 maddr 0xd0000 msize 16384 on isa # having this at ed0: address 00:00:c0:fe:34:0a, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) # 0x300 made the ed1 at 0x280-0x29f irq 3 maddr 0xd8000 msize 16384 on isa # card defunct ed1: address 00:00:c0:10:1b:1e, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) lpt0 at 0x3bc-0x3c3 irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface aic0 at 0x340-0x35f irq 11 on isa (aic0:3:0): "HP HP35470A T503" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st0(aic0:3:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, variable blocks, write-enabled fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 765 fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 81MB (166770 sectors), 981 cyls, 10 heads, 17 S/T, 512 B/S npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface st0(aic0:3:0): timed out # <<<< This is the result of a tar cvf /dev/rst0 / st0(aic0:3:0): timed out And the system hangs at the tar command: # tar cvf /dev/rst0 / ^C^Cst0: not ready (after a while) Is there anything special to that HP DAT drive? Blocksize which the driver cannot cope with? Compression on/off? I believe the driver is working in polled modes, at least not DMA driven. The board doesn't have busmaster DMA logic and the motherboard DMA doesn't seem (yet) implemented in the driver. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 05:57:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA12490 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA12470; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (alecto.physics.uiuc.edu [128.174.83.167]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA134502; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:54:21 -0600 Received: by alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA04064; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:54:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:54:00 -0600 From: igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (Igor Roshchin) Message-Id: <199611181354.HAA04064@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu> To: spork@super-g.com (S), Wolfgang Ley Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu, eric@sendmail.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From ley@cert.dfn.de Mon Nov 18 02:33:06 1996 S wrote: > > But if one does have to run 8.7.6 until they have time to breath, does > anyone know if the error that Igor and I are seeing compiling 8.7.6 from [...] That's simply wrong. sendmail 8.7 - 8.8.2 is affected (which includes sendmail 8.7.6). Install 8.8.3 to fix the bug. Bye, Wolfgang. This is not the right aproach. 1. As somebody has written, people should be able to get sendmail from *.freebsd.org without digging for it. sup.freebsd.org had just 8.7.6 with the patch in question. 2. The patch in question SHOULD work (Somebody showed that the line being discussed is not that important) 3. In general (although it does not seem to be the case now), transition from one version to another one is not a painless process, because of configuration files This situation can be more sofisticated when you have a cluster of computers with different platforms with common infrastucture. (I am not getting into details, you know them better than me) IgoR From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 07:39:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA22635 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:39:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [206.222.77.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA22621 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA10060 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:38:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Mayo To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Announce: Alternative Mail Archive Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I've been playing with setting up my own mail archive of the freebsd discussion lists! To start with, I've been archiving the -questions list for several days, and i was wondering if someone would take a look and tell me what you think? Basically, it lets you "browse" the list, or search it. I'm still working on the searching part a little, trying to get it to produce slightly better output. My thoughts so far: 1) The main browse list will have to be broken up into one,or two week sections. If not, after a few months the file will become redicuously large. 2) I like how I can search for something, go to the result, and be able do navigate up and down in the "thread". This was something I found to be a pain in the ass on freebsd.org archive.. 3) I'm using hypermail to archive, and ht://Dig to search. They seem quite good, but maybe there are better solutions? Feedback would be appreciated. You can check it out at: http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark/FreeBSD TIA, -Mark --------------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | RingZero Comp. vinyl.quickweb.com/mark | --------------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 07:41:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA22796 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:41:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA22787 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id IAA23917; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.ampr.ab.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04613; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:34:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:34:12 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@alive.ampr.ab.ca To: Robert Shady cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). In-Reply-To: <199611181015.FAA11340@server.id.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [moved to -hackers from security. It started with a discussion of sendmail with uucp; I stated that sendmail still tries to use DNS no matter how you configure it and you have to recompile it to make it stop.] On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Robert Shady wrote: > > Incorrect. It RUNS without DNS but still TRIES to use it. If you really > > don't have IP connectivity, then difference doesn't matter because it > > still works when the lookup fails, however it still does try and the > > difference does matter if you have partial IP connectivity. I have a > > system setup with nocanonify and all the other config file tweaks I know > > of, and it still tries to use DNS as a tcpdump shows quite clearly. This > > system is running 8.7.5, so things may have been changed in more recent > > versions but I can't say for sure; if this has changed in more recent > > versions, please let me know. > > > > I _think_ the define that needs to be set to 0 is NAMED_BIND, but don't > > recall for sure. This has been gone over before on the lists. > > Out of curiosity, what interface exactly are you looking at if you aren't > running tcp/ip? I am running TCP/IP, however only sometimes; ie. a dial on demand connection. If it isn't recompiled, no matter how you configure it, sendmail will try a DNS lookup for each bit of mail it receives, causing the dial on demand link to come up. I am looking at the ppp (tun0) interface. If you don't have IP running, or you don't have a route to a nameserver, or you don't have a nameserver, you won't notice the lookup but it still tries and, in this case, fails immediately. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 07:45:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA23035 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:45:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (root@knecht.oxford.reference.com [205.217.47.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA23029; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (eric@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by knecht.Sendmail.ORG (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA25568; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:45:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611181545.HAA25568@knecht.Sendmail.ORG> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: "S(pork)" From: Eric Allman X-URL: http://WWW.InReference.COM/~eric cc: Igor Roshchin , Ollivier Robert , freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... In-reply-to: Mail from "S(pork)" dated Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:39:11 CST Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:45:13 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I see there's been a lot of traffic, so this is probably answered already -- but just remove the call to vendor_daemon_setup. eric ============= In Reply To: =========================================== : From: "S(pork)" : Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... : Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:39:11 -0600 (CST) : But if one does have to run 8.7.6 until they have time to breath, does : anyone know if the error that Igor and I are seeing compiling 8.7.6 from : -stable can be avoided? I first patched with the 2 line setgid, setuid : patch I saw on the list, then I grabbed what was in the current -stable : source and got the same error as Igor. It compiled after deleting the : line in main.c that I saw in the errors, and it seems to work, but : reckless deletion scares me. I wonder what the line was for.... : : Anyhow, any help is appreciated. : : Thanks, : : Charles : : On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Eric Allman wrote: : : > This patch is against 8.8.2, not 8.7.6. You need to upgrade to 8.8; : > 8.7.x is no long supported. : > : > eric : > : > : > ============= In Reply To: =========================================== : > : From: igor@alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (Igor Roshchin) : > : Subject: Re: New sendmail bug... : > : Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:12:33 -0600 (CST) : > : > : Hello! : > : : > : May be I am missing something, : > : but I was not able to compile the patched version : > : of the sendmail 8.7.6.4, : > : as it appears in FreeBSD distribution (sup.freebsd.org). : > : : > : main.o: Undefined symbol `_vendor_daemon_setup' referenced from text segm ent : > : *** Error code 1 : > : : > : : > : Is it a problem due to the version of FreeBSD ? : > : I tried it on 2.1.5-stable and 2.1.5-release; - : > : results were the same. : > : : > : Thanks in advance for your suggestions. : > : : > : IgoR : > : : > : : > : > : > : > ------- main.c ------- : > : > *** - Wed Dec 31 16:00:00 1969 : > : > --- main.c Sat Nov 16 07:07:17 1996 : > : > *************** : > : > *** 493,507 **** : > : > { : > : > case MD_DAEMON: : > : > case MD_FGDAEMON: : > : > ! # ifdef DAEMON : > : > ! if (RealUid != 0) : > : > ! { : > : > ! usrerr("Permission denied"); : > : > ! exit(EX_USAGE); : > : > ! } : > : > ! vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); : > : > ! /* fall through ... */ : > : > ! # else : > : > usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); : > : > ExitStat = EX_USAGE; : > : > break; : > : > --- 493,499 ---- : > : > { : > : > case MD_DAEMON: : > : > case MD_FGDAEMON: : > : > ! # ifndef DAEMON : > : > usrerr("Daemon mode not implemented"); : > : > ExitStat = EX_USAGE; : > : > break; : > : > *************** : > : > *** 899,904 **** : > : > --- 891,904 ---- : > : > /* fall through ... */ : > : > : > : > case MD_DAEMON: : > : > + /* check for permissions */ : > : > + if (RealUid != 0) : > : > + { : > : > + usrerr("Permission denied"); : > : > + exit(EX_USAGE); : > : > + } : > : > + vendor_daemon_setup(CurEnv); : > : > + : > : > /* remove things that don't make sense in daemon mode * / : > : > FullName = NULL; : > : > GrabTo = FALSE; : > : > *************** : > : > *** 1932,1937 **** : > : > --- 1932,1946 ---- : > : > syslog(LOG_INFO, "restarting %s on signal", SaveArgv[0] ); : > : > #endif : > : > releasesignal(SIGHUP); : > : > + if (setuid(RealUid) < 0 || setgid(RealGid) < 0) : > : > + { : > : > + #ifdef LOG : > : > + if (LogLevel > 0) : > : > + syslog(LOG_ALERT, "could not set[ug]id(%d, %d): %m", : > : > + RealUid, RealGid); : > : > + #endif : > : > + exit(EX_OSERR); : > : > + } : > : > execv(SaveArgv[0], (ARGV_T) SaveArgv); : > : > #ifdef LOG : > : > if (LogLevel > 0) : > : > : > : > : > : : > : > : > : From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 08:13:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA24414 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:13:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain-work.iafrica.com (root@chain-work.iafrica.com [196.31.1.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24408 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:13:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chain-work.iafrica.com (8.8.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA05805; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:06:10 +0200 (SAT) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:06:10 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aic0 (/dev/rst0) problem In-Reply-To: <199611181334.OAA20811@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan/ X-Alternate-Address: khetan@uunet.co.za X-Alternate-Address2: kg@iafrica.com X-Alternate-Address3: gjjkhe01@sonnenberg.uct.ac.za X-Alternate-Address4: khetan@chain.iafrica.com X-IRC-nick: chain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Christoph Kukulies wrote: >And the system hangs at the tar command: > ># tar cvf /dev/rst0 / >^C^Cst0: not ready (after a while) I'm experiencing this with my SCSI CD-ROM drive; the card is the Adaptec AVA1515, which uses the aic6360 chipset. --khg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 08:24:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA25007 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:24:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24933 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA12450; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:18:22 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA21475; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:28:18 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199611181628.RAA21475@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: aic0 (/dev/rst0) problem In-Reply-To: from Khetan Gajjar at "Nov 18, 96 06:06:10 pm" To: khetan@iafrica.com (Khetan Gajjar) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:28:18 +0100 (MET) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > >And the system hangs at the tar command: > > > ># tar cvf /dev/rst0 / > >^C^Cst0: not ready (after a while) > > I'm experiencing this with my SCSI CD-ROM drive; the card is the Adaptec ^^^^^^ I hope not you are trying to create a tar archive on you CD-ROM drive :-) At which operation exactly does it 'hang'? > AVA1515, which uses the aic6360 chipset. Thanks for the datapoint. So I'm not alone. I guess the AVA 1515 is the one with BIOS ROM and other circuitry while mine (the AVA 1505) has no BIOS end decoding circuitry. > > > --khg > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 09:06:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA27722 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from cyber2.servtech.com (root@cyber2.servtech.com [199.1.22.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27716; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.com (prcomm.roc.servtech.com [204.181.3.14]) by cyber2.servtech.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with ESMTP id MAA25572; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:06:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from housley@localhost) by ocean.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00519; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:05:16 -0500 (EST) From: "James E. Housley" Posted-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:05:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611181705.MAA00519@ocean.com> Subject: PCMCIA? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:05:15 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a Satellite 110CT and I would like to enable PCCARD support in the kernel. How do I? Where is there some documentation? Thanks Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 09:22:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA28878 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [199.184.181.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA28869 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from right.PCS (right.pcs. [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA17553; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:42:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id RAA19995; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:18:05 GMT Message-Id: <199611181718.RAA19995@right.PCS> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:18:05 -0600 From: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner), terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), scrappy@ki.net, jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sockets question... References: <96Nov15.113305pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Hancock on Nov 18, 1996 16:02:11 +0900 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Hancock writes: > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Bill Fenner wrote: > > > 4.4BSD introduced the MSG_WAITALL flag, so if you use recv() or any of its > > friends you can ask for your whole request to be performed. This is, of > > course, not portable, and MSG_WAITALL won't even do the trick if your > > request is larger than the socket's high water mark (e.g. SO_RECVBUF). > > > > UnixWare 2.1.1 now supports this, I'll have to check Solaris. Maybe it's > more portable than you think. Sequent PTX/4.1.X also supports MSG_WAITALL. As a matter of fact, the manual pages for socket(2) and recv(2) look nearly identical to FreeBSD. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 09:30:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA29371 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA29366 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from osprey.grizzly.com by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id JAA09109; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from markd@localhost) by osprey.grizzly.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA01379; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:30:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:30:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611181730.JAA01379@osprey.grizzly.com> From: Mark Diekhans To: marcs@znep.com, rls@mail.id.net, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Marc Slemko on Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:34:12 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >[moved to -hackers from security. It started with a discussion of >sendmail with uucp; I stated that sendmail still tries to use DNS no >matter how you configure it and you have to recompile it to make it stop.] > >On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Robert Shady wrote: > >> > Incorrect. It RUNS without DNS but still TRIES to use it. If you really >> > don't have IP connectivity, then difference doesn't matter because it >> > still works when the lookup fails, however it still does try and the >> > difference does matter if you have partial IP connectivity. I have a >> > system setup with nocanonify and all the other config file tweaks I know >> > of, and it still tries to use DNS as a tcpdump shows quite clearly. This >> > system is running 8.7.5, so things may have been changed in more recent >> > versions but I can't say for sure; if this has changed in more recent >> > versions, please let me know. >> > >> > I _think_ the define that needs to be set to 0 is NAMED_BIND, but don't >> > recall for sure. This has been gone over before on the lists. I disabled the use of DNS by sendmail by adding the file /etc/service.switch containing the line: hosts files From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 09:49:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00848 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA00839; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sol1.gud.siemens.co.at (root@[10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA01547; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:48:26 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at by sol1.gud.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0vPXoQ-00021EC; Mon, 18 Nov 96 18:48 MET Received: by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (1.37.109.16/1.37) id AA152559230; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:47:10 +0100 From: "Hr.Ladavac" Message-Id: <199611181747.AA152559230@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Subject: Re: Q: system specific binaries To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:47:10 +0100 (MEZ) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, rob@xs1.simplex.nl, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611160457.PAA10718@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 16, 96 03:27:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk E-mail message from Michael Smith contained: > John S. Dyson stands accused of saying: > > > > > > If this is too easy to break, is there perhaps a way to specify > > > from which directories binaries may be executed ? > > look at /sys/kern/imgact* for starters. Depending on what you're actually > worried about, you might want to look at the source for the shells, > perl, tcl, remove the debugger (gdb) etc. > > > Perhaps, formulate a system whereby the flags bits on a file are used > > in some way... Note that I am not talking about the "protection" bits, > > but there is another group of interesting things called flags bits that > > can be placed only under the control of the kernel. Just a thought. > > > > (Perhaps an "annoint" command???) > > A "secure" flag, only settable by root and cleared when the file is > written to might be vaguely useful. It might give a false sense of > confidence though. A "secure" flag only settable in a standalone mode, combined perhaps with "immutable" flag might be better. No, I don't have the patches (yet :) /Marino > > > John > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ > ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 09:50:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00900 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from centauro (centauro.isr.uc.pt [193.136.230.140]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00684 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by centauro (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13749; Mon, 18 Nov 96 17:45:12 GMT Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:45:12 +0000 (WET) From: "Nuno M. C. H. Monteiro" X-Sender: nhonorio@centauro To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Voice Recognition (URGENT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nuno Honorio nhonorio@isr.uc.pt Carla Lopes xanalope@isr.uc.pt MONDAY, the 18th November 1996 Dear Sirs, We are students of Electronic Engeniering in the University of Coimbra, Portugal and we are doing research in the area of Robotics and Voice. Our project consists of developing a voice interface to an electric wheelchair (robot). We are looking for a Hardware/Software system able to recognise in real-time single words or groups of words. The system must work in a Pc running LINUX. The software must be in C language and should allow the user to program himself some subroutines. This system also requires: - A TOOLKIT to develop a Linux aplication using a Sound Blaster - The ability of recognizing a few words in real-time - The capacity of being trainned. If you have that kind of system, or if you know anyone who might have it, please send us some information by email to: nhonorio@isr.uc.pt, or to xanalope@isr.uc.pt or by mail to: Prof. Doutor Urbano Nunes Departamento de Engenharia Electrotecnica Universidade de Coimbra Polo II - Quinta da Boavista 3000 Coimbra Portugal or by Fax: 351-39-35672 to Prof. Doutor Urbano Nunes. Looking foward to hearing from you, your's faithfully Nuno Honorio -- .................................... Nuno Miguel Honorio Monteiro Systems and Robotics Institute University of Coimbra Portugal nhonrio@isr.uc.pt From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 11:22:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06085 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06077 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id MAA05569; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:20:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.ampr.ab.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05720; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:17:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:17:21 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@alive.ampr.ab.ca To: Mark Diekhans cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sendmail without DNS (was: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2).) In-Reply-To: <199611181730.JAA01379@osprey.grizzly.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As I mentioned before, and should have mentioned again when I moved it to -hackers, that still does not prevent sendmail from trying to use DNS in all cases. I've tried it. Quite a bit. I have tried nocanonify, nodns, a service.switch file and perhaps a few other things that I can't remember right now, but sendmail still tries to do DNS lookups. The last time this discussion came through the conclusion was that the only way to change this was to recompile sendmail. AFAIK, that is still the case. On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Mark Diekhans wrote: > >[moved to -hackers from security. It started with a discussion of > >sendmail with uucp; I stated that sendmail still tries to use DNS no > >matter how you configure it and you have to recompile it to make it stop.] > > > >On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Robert Shady wrote: > > > >> > Incorrect. It RUNS without DNS but still TRIES to use it. If you really > >> > don't have IP connectivity, then difference doesn't matter because it > >> > still works when the lookup fails, however it still does try and the > >> > difference does matter if you have partial IP connectivity. I have a > >> > system setup with nocanonify and all the other config file tweaks I know > >> > of, and it still tries to use DNS as a tcpdump shows quite clearly. This > >> > system is running 8.7.5, so things may have been changed in more recent > >> > versions but I can't say for sure; if this has changed in more recent > >> > versions, please let me know. > >> > > >> > I _think_ the define that needs to be set to 0 is NAMED_BIND, but don't > >> > recall for sure. This has been gone over before on the lists. > > I disabled the use of DNS by sendmail by adding the file /etc/service.switch > containing the line: > > hosts files > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 11:35:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06998 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:35:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [206.222.77.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06989; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10637; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:34:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:34:21 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Mayo To: Jonathan Lemon cc: jhk@freebsd.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Announce: Alternative Mail Archive In-Reply-To: <199611181759.RAA28132@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > Mark Mayo writes: > > Hi all, I've been playing with setting up my own mail archive of the > > freebsd discussion lists! To start with, I've been archiving the > > -questions list for several days, and i was wondering if someone would > > take a look and tell me what you think? > > > > Basically, it lets you "browse" the list, or search it. I'm still working > > on the searching part a little, trying to get it to produce slightly > > better output. > > If possible, an option to limit the search string to only the title/header > of the message might be useful. Also, I couldn't figure out how to search > by numbers - eg "2.1.6". > Good idea, I'll look into it. I'm also refining the search so the "index" page that contains all the subjects laid out in threads isn't indexed by the search engine -- it should produce better results that are easier to understand. > > > My thoughts so far: > > 1) The main browse list will have to be broken up into one,or two week > > sections. If not, after a few months the file will become redicuously > > large. > > Yes - BUGTRAQ's hypermail archive has this problem - it puts the entire > year's discussion on one page. Takes so long to load, I don't even visit > the page any more. > I'm planning on breaking the list into 1 month chunks, as Joe Greco suggested. Maybe two. At the "entry" point to the archive, you'll be able to pick which month you wish to browse. I'll probably enable searching of a particular month as well. > > > 2) I like how I can search for something, go to the result, and be able do > > navigate up and down in the "thread". This was something I found to be a > > pain in the ass on freebsd.org archive.. > > I absolutely hate the freebsd mailing list archive. I aside from the fact > that you can't browse it directly, it doesn't even sort the results by date > or thread, nor does it allow you to "get the next X hits". > This is the main reason I was motivated to create this archive - I just found the results from the freebsd mailing list arhive too difficult to process in my head... > > > 3) I'm using hypermail to archive, and ht://Dig to search. They seem quite > > good, but maybe there are better solutions? Feedback would be appreciated. > > It looks good. Have you given any thought to archiving -hackers as well? Definately. Right now (for the next few days) I'll just be doing -questions. Mostly as a test. If everything works okay, I'll fire up -hackers, and all the other lists as well. I should have some spare time next weekend, so maybe I'll add the other lists then. Thanks for the feedback, -Mark > -- > Jonathan > --------------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | RingZero Comp. vinyl.quickweb.com/mark | --------------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 11:44:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07543 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:44:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07536 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:43:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA11975 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:23:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3290B7AB.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:23:23 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: Device filesystem stumbling block] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this time get the address right! --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <32903133.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:49:39 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd CC: mckusick@vangogh.cs.berkeley.edu Subject: Device filesystem stumbling block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, John, Kirk.. HELP! I have the device filesystem here working quite nicely.. until I try unmount a filesystem mounted from a device accessed through devfs. here's an example: [IJ-julian.whistle.com] 28 mount -t devfs devfs /mnt [IJ-julian.whistle.com] 29 mount /mnt/wd0e /data/mnt [IJ-julian.whistle.com] 30 mount /dev/wd0a on / (local, read-only) /dev/wd0g on /var (local) /dev/wd0h on /data (local) procfs on /proc (local) devfs on /mnt (local) /mnt/wd0e on /data/mnt (local) [IJ-julian.whistle.com] 31 sysctl -w debug.debugger=1 debug.debugger: 0 -> 1 {private mod to allow me to drop into debugger to set a breakpoint at unmount(), and return} [IJ-julian.whistle.com] 32 umount /data/mnt at this point the process doing the unmount hangs... tracing in the debugger gives.. (stopped at a breakpoint before the tsleep in getblk() ) Breakpoint 2, getblk (vp=0xf0ae1880, blkno=16, size=2048, slpflag=0, slptimeo=0) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:1068 (xxgdb) info stack #0 getblk (vp=0xf0ae1880, blkno=16, size=2048, slpflag=0, slptimeo=0) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:1068 #1 0xf0164544 in ffs_sbupdate (mp=0xf0b3ea00, waitfor=1) at ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c:1051 #2 0xf0163dfd in ffs_unmount (mp=0xf0b3ec00, mntflags=0, p=0xf0b34a00) at ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c:672 #3 0xf01329f0 in dounmount (mp=0xf0b3ec00, flags=0, p=0xf0b34a00) at ../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:309 #4 0xf0132928 in unmount (p=0xf0b34a00, uap=0xefbfff94, retval=0xefbfff84) at ../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:280 #5 0xf018882f in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = -272640000, tf_esi = 161190, tf_ebp = -272638864, tf_isp = -272629788, tf_ebx = 0, tf_edx = 1, tf_ecx = 58, tf_eax = 22, tf_trapno = 7, tf_err = 7, tf_eip = 11413, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 582, tf_esp = -272640052, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:891 #6 0xf017fddf in Xsyscall () the vnode in question is: $13 = { v_flag = 8192, v_usecount = 2, v_writecount = 0, v_holdcnt = 3, v_lastr = 0, v_id = 1568, v_mount = 0xf0b34800, v_op = 0xf09c0a00, v_freelist = { tqe_next = 0xf0ae1800, tqe_prev = 0xdeadb }, v_mntvnodes = { le_next = 0xf0ae1900, le_prev = 0xf0b34814 }, v_cleanblkhd = { lh_first = 0xf29ad64c }, v_dirtyblkhd = { lh_first = 0x0 }, v_numoutput = 0, v_type = VBLK, v_un = { vu_mountedhere = 0xf09a3f50, vu_socket = 0xf09a3f50, vu_specinfo = 0xf09a3f50, vu_fifoinfo = 0xf09a3f50 }, v_lease = 0x0, v_lastw = 0, v_cstart = 0, v_lasta = 0, v_clen = 0, v_ralen = 0, v_usage = 1, v_maxra = 0, v_object = 0xf0b24980, v_tag = VT_DEVFS, v_data = 0xf0b47b00 } and the buf in question is the buf holding the superblock for the filesystem. It is marked BUSY, but nothing is dealing with it so getblk waits forever. for the life of me I can't figure out what I need to add to devfs to make that block be handled. If it helps, here's the buf.. $15 = { b_hash = { le_next = 0x0, le_prev = 0xf01c2168 }, b_vnbufs = { le_next = 0xf29af0cc, le_prev = 0xf29ad654 }, b_freelist = { tqe_next = 0xf29af0cc, tqe_prev = 0xf29ad9ac }, b_act = { tqe_next = 0x0, tqe_prev = 0xf01c91dc }, b_proc = 0x0, b_flags = 8454708, b_qindex = 0, b_usecount = 6 '\006', b_error = 0, b_bufsize = 2048, b_bcount = 2048, b_resid = 0, b_dev = 4, b_un = { b_addr = 0xf0ace000 "" }, b_saveaddr = 0x0, b_lblkno = 16, b_blkno = 16, b_iodone = 0, b_iodone_chain = 0x0, b_vp = 0xf0ae1880, b_dirtyoff = 0, b_dirtyend = 0, b_rcred = 0x0, b_wcred = 0x0, b_validoff = 0, b_validend = 0, b_pblkno = 307279, b_savekva = 0x0, b_driver1 = 0x0, b_driver2 = 0x0, b_spc = 0x0, b_cluster = { cluster_head = { tqh_first = 0xf29afc64, tqh_last = 0xf29ac994 }, cluster_entry = { tqe_next = 0xf29afc64, tqe_prev = 0xf29ac994 } }, b_pages = {0x0 }, b_npages = 0 } I don't understand what is supposed to find it and do the write back that it is apparently waiting for. I've looked in the 4.4 book but unfortunatly it doesn't seem to cover this anywhere I can see. Certainly it lacks a clear diagram of the linking in of filesystem meta-data in the buffer system. I don't know where this buffer is hung off. I guess I'm going to be single stepping through 'mount' tomorrow to try figure this out, but any hints in the meanwhile would be gratefully accepted.. julian --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 12:32:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA09770 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:32:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA09765 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25998; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:32:48 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:32:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611182032.NAA25998@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 1600x1200 Modelines Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone have one? I just got a new Nanao F2-21, and I'd like to try out 1600x120 on it, but I don't even have an example one to try out? (Yes, I have a video card capable of driving it). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 12:52:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA10824 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10819 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id UAA24026; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:49:33 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:42:47 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:42:27 +0000 To: Marc Slemko , Robert Shady From: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 8:34 am 18/11/96, Marc Slemko wrote: >[moved to -hackers from security. It started with a discussion of >sendmail with uucp; I stated that sendmail still tries to use DNS no >matter how you configure it and you have to recompile it to make it stop.] > >On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Robert Shady wrote: > >> > Incorrect. It RUNS without DNS but still TRIES to use it. If you really >> > don't have IP connectivity, then difference doesn't matter because it >> > still works when the lookup fails, however it still does try and the >> > difference does matter if you have partial IP connectivity. I have a >> > system setup with nocanonify and all the other config file tweaks I know >> > of, and it still tries to use DNS as a tcpdump shows quite clearly. This >> > system is running 8.7.5, so things may have been changed in more recent >> > versions but I can't say for sure; if this has changed in more recent >> > versions, please let me know. >> > >> > I _think_ the define that needs to be set to 0 is NAMED_BIND, but don't >> > recall for sure. This has been gone over before on the lists. >> >> Out of curiosity, what interface exactly are you looking at if you aren't >> running tcp/ip? > >I am running TCP/IP, however only sometimes; ie. a dial on demand >connection. If it isn't recompiled, no matter how you configure it, >sendmail will try a DNS lookup for each bit of mail it receives, causing >the dial on demand link to come up. I am looking at the ppp (tun0) >interface. If you don't have IP running, or you don't have a route to a >nameserver, or you don't have a nameserver, you won't notice the lookup >but it still tries and, in this case, fails immediately. Run a caching-only nameserver locally? -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 12:55:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA10991 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:55:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu (PO5.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.105]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA10986 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id PAA08616; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:55:37 -0500 Received: via switchmail; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:55:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix11.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix11.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix11.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4x.55 via MS.5.6.unix11.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:54:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8mYAnny00YUn1FEEY0@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:54:11 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Y Ng To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, "Nuno M. C. H. Monteiro" Subject: Re: Voice Recognition (URGENT) In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmmm.. Chk out the CMU Speech Lab: http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/speech/ /ayn -- Andrew Y Ng http://andrew.Ngbert.org Carnegie Mellon University; ECE major, Music minor campus ph: 412/862-2836; voice mail: 412/268-6700 x30027 talk: finger ayn@andrew.Ngbert.org for online status. finger ayn@CMU.EDU for more info, such as my public key, geekcode, snail address, etc. NGBERT! http://www.Ngbert.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 12:57:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA11141 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:57:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from odo.elan.af.mil (odo.elan.af.mil [129.198.69.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA11107 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by odo.elan.af.mil (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) for @odo.elan.af.mil:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id MAA07254; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:56:03 -0800 Received: by odo.elan.af.mil from ws15.elan.af.mil id edw007248; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:56:02 PST Received: by ws15.elan.af.mil (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951211.SGI) for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id MAA28036; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:56:45 -0800 From: "Jon Morgan" Message-Id: <9611181256.ZM28034@ws15.elan.af.mil> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:56:44 -0800 X-Face: $PxpL8AhaH:6ZDBd[dMue/:t!qt$Mq_(vt>~57kWgn+7QRM#z|&6nDsmwLy8k.i(?$~_07V 7p[h!2`_Q1W.bu(p8"h+i,LDZ7&u0HADl)k{0!vb]Uf!H^;e$~K%s_]z|-lZ"lT/!LvcT(Q|&qc5;) 5nw1Z!o{JE X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: adaptec Altra AVA-1515 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been using an adaptec AVA-1515 control that a friend of mine couldn't get to work on his system and it's working fine on FreeBSD. It's recognized as an aic device (aic-6360). This ought to be added to the FAQ and handbook. -- Jon P. Morgan Computer Scientist Data Systems Development Computer Sciences Corp. PO box 445 Edwards AFB, Ca. 93523 805-277-7645 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 13:14:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA11995 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11989 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07618; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:00:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611182100.OAA07618@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Memory probe(s) in FreeBSD To: erich@uruk.org (Erich Boleyn) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:00:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, dg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Erich Boleyn" at Nov 17, 96 03:24:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Some really big advantages of > the Multiboot stuff include of course the extra memory information, but > also a real text command-line (i.e. no patches to the bootloader for > every new kernel option supported) and multiple modules passed at boot-time > to the kernel would then be supported. What do you mean, "multiple modules passed at boot-time to the kernel"? In the future, I think the boot loader should be inherited by the kernel... Specifically, I'd like to see the boot loader code load immediate any ELF sections tagged as "load immediate" from the kernel file, jump to the entry point, and let the kernel call back to the loader to load drivers, etc. from its own image and from other images that it knows how to find. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 13:22:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA12401 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:22:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12392 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id OAA09009 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:22:45 -0700 (MST) From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199611182122.OAA09009@hemi.com> Subject: Help: ucd-snmpd w/freebsd To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:22:44 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm getting rather frustrated trying to get an snmpd running for FreeBSD 2.1 machines. Please help! =-) Problem: the interface counters never seem to get updated once snmpd is running. Example. (on a pretty busy system network-wise): $ snmpget -v 1 localhost public interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 = 558046531 (five minutes later) $ snmpget -v 1 localhost public interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 = 558046531 Argh... the numbers stay the same even though gobs of traffic passes through this ".1" interface (happens to be an ed0, the machine's only connection to the net.) I tried using a really old port of cmu-snmpd I happened to have (from NoDak, I think), I tried using the ucd-snmpd 3.1 from the 2.1.5-ports, and I tried manually building the ucd-snmpd 3.1.1 from ftp.ece.ucdavis.edu... all give the same results. =-( Note that all the machines I tried to run the binaries on are running various incarantions of 2.1-R kernels. Snmpget and friends show normal behaviour when pointed to other SNMP servers (e.g. our Cisco routers.) Thanks for any help! I'm sure it's something tiny and stupid on my part, but I can't figure out what that is! -Ade ------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 13:24:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA12547 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:24:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12536 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:24:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07633; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:07:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611182107.OAA07633@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: aic0 (/dev/rst0) problem To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph Kukulies) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:07:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611181334.OAA20811@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Nov 18, 96 02:34:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > # tar cvf /dev/rst0 / > ^C^Cst0: not ready (after a while) > > Is there anything special to that HP DAT drive? Blocksize which the driver > cannot cope with? Compression on/off? I believe the driver is working in > polled modes, at least not DMA driven. The board doesn't have busmaster > DMA logic and the motherboard DMA doesn't seem (yet) implemented in the > driver. Unless you set a dipswitch, it won't work with "audio DAT Tapes"; HP is the first drive that whines about them. 8-(. I also believe the default block size is 0 for autorecognition; there was a big discussion on this about 8 months ago. Look at the "mt" command man page for setting the block size. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 13:26:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA12737 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12715 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07648; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:13:25 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611182113.OAA07648@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Voice Recognition (URGENT) To: nhonorio@isr.uc.pt (Nuno M. C. H. Monteiro) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:13:25 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Nuno M. C. H. Monteiro" at Nov 18, 96 05:45:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We are looking for a Hardware/Software system able to recognise in > real-time single words or groups of words. The system must work in a Pc > running LINUX. The software must be in C language and should allow the > user to program himself some subroutines. > This system also requires: > > - A TOOLKIT to develop a Linux aplication using a Sound Blaster > - The ability of recognizing a few words in real-time > - The capacity of being trainned. There is a voice recognition "toolbox"; it is for building voice recognition systems: it is not, itself, a complete system. Amancio Hasty was talking about getting it ported from Linux on the FreeBSD Multimedia list a while back. Knowing Amancio, I woudn't be surprised if the software required a Gravis Ultrasound, or some other better-than-sound-blaster (DSP?) card. I would suggest contacting the Multimedia list, or Amancio Hasty, directly for more information. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 13:44:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA14033 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14027 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:44:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07701; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:31:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611182131.OAA07701@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Device filesystem stumbling block] To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:31:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3290B7AB.41C67EA6@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Nov 18, 96 11:23:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > the vnode in question is: > $13 = { > v_flag = 8192, > v_usecount = 2, > v_writecount = 0, > v_holdcnt = 3, > v_lastr = 0, > v_id = 1568, > v_mount = 0xf0b34800, ********** 0xf0b34800 > v_op = 0xf09c0a00, > v_freelist = { > tqe_next = 0xf0ae1800, > tqe_prev = 0xdeadb ******* This is suspicious, but should not be fatal > }, > v_mntvnodes = { > le_next = 0xf0ae1900, > le_prev = 0xf0b34814 ********** 0xf0b34814 Last time I looked, sizeof(struct vnode) is larger than what you have here: 0xf0b34814 - 0xf0b34800 = 0x14 = 20 bytes I would say your v_mntvnodes is corrupt, or this particular vnode is corrupt. Again, if it's the le_prev that's blown, then this should not be fatal. > and the buf in question is the buf holding the superblock for the > filesystem. It is marked BUSY, but nothing is dealing with it so > getblk waits forever. for the life of me I can't figure out > what I need to add to devfs to make that block be handled. Try adding the FORCECLOSE flag to the ffs_flushfiles() call in ffs_unmount() in /sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c. flags |= FORCECLOSE; if (error = ffs_flushfiles(mp, flags, p)) If it "fixes" it, then it should be possible to get a better fix. > I don't understand what is supposed to find it and do the write back > that it is apparently waiting for. > I've looked in the 4.4 book but unfortunatly it doesn't seem to cover > this anywhere I can see. Certainly it lacks a clear diagram of > the linking in of filesystem meta-data in the buffer system. > I don't know where this buffer is hung off. > I guess I'm going to be single stepping through 'mount' > tomorrow to try figure this out, but any hints in the meanwhile > would be gratefully accepted.. One question occurs to me: is this the / FS? If it is, then it will never unbusy, since the devfs is mounted on it... right? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 14:23:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA17276 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (friley216.res.iastate.edu [129.186.78.216]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17271 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley216.res.iastate.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA05988 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:23:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611182223.QAA05988@friley216.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error (2.1.5) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:23:21 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We are having trouble with this on all of our 2.1.5 boxes. Basically the mpi hint job that we are trying to run on our cluster has produced about 50MB of the following errors in the syslogs of all the machines involved. This is bad. Im concerned that this will not be fixed for 2.2 since I have seen similar messages in 3.0. It would be really nice to have a fix, and if anyone has something that I may try, I would really apreciate it. Here are the error messages that are repeated thousands of times: Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 2531 failure Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error Chris Csanady ccsanady@scl.ameslab.gov From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 14:34:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA17909 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua ([194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17901 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [194.93.190.3]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA99988; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:33:53 +0200 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:33:53 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 1600x1200 Modelines In-Reply-To: <199611182032.NAA25998@rocky.mt.sri.com> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > Anyone have one? I just got a new Nanao F2-21, and I'd like to try out > 1600x120 on it, but I don't even have an example one to try out? > > (Yes, I have a video card capable of driving it). ... and also 1152x900 -- XFree doesn't have them out of the box, though might be nice to have some. > > Nate > -- Best, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 14:36:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18072 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18055 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA26542; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:35:42 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:35:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611182235.PAA26542@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Andrew Stesin Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 1600x1200 Modelines In-Reply-To: References: <199611182032.NAA25998@rocky.mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone have one? I just got a new Nanao F2-21, and I'd like to try out > > 1600x120 on it, but I don't even have an example one to try out? > > > > (Yes, I have a video card capable of driving it). > > ... and also 1152x900 -- XFree doesn't have them out of the box, > though might be nice to have some. The Monitors database contains quite a few 1152x900 modelines. I used one of them for a start and tweaked it. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:03:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA19275 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:03:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA19248 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:03:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id QAA13386; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:03:04 -0700 (MST) From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199611182303.QAA13386@hemi.com> Subject: Re: Help: ucd-snmpd w/freebsd To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:03:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: wesley.hardaker@sphys.unil.ch In-Reply-To: <199611182122.OAA09009@hemi.com> from "Ade Barkah" at Nov 18, 96 02:22:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Problem: the interface counters never seem to get updated once snmpd is running. ... on FreeBSD 2.1 with ucd-smtpd 3.1 ... > $ snmpget -v 1 localhost public interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 > interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 = 558046531 > > (five minutes later) > > $ snmpget -v 1 localhost public interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 > interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 = 558046531 Nothing like replying to my own mail... some further info... if I use snmpwalk (which is a GET NEXT) instead of a snmpget (a plain GET request) then the interface counters are incremented as expected. Incidently, doing a snmpget on system.sysUpTime.0 gets the expected results (ticks get incremented on each subsequent calls.) Thanks for any help, -Ade cc: Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch ------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:03:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA19304 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:03:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from irbs.irbs.com (jc@irbs.irbs.com [199.182.75.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA19291 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.irbs.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id SAA20548; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:03:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:03:24 -0500 From: jc@irbs.com (John Capo) To: mbarkah@hemi.com (Ade Barkah) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help: ucd-snmpd w/freebsd References: <199611182122.OAA09009@hemi.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Organization: IRBS Engineering, (954) 792-9551 In-Reply-To: <199611182122.OAA09009@hemi.com>; from Ade Barkah on Nov 18, 1996 14:22:44 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Quoting Ade Barkah (mbarkah@hemi.com): > Hello, > > I'm getting rather frustrated trying to get an snmpd running for > FreeBSD 2.1 machines. Please help! =-) Problem: the interface counters > never seem to get updated once snmpd is running. > > Example. (on a pretty busy system network-wise): > > $ snmpget -v 1 localhost public interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 > interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 = 558046531 > > (five minutes later) > > $ snmpget -v 1 localhost public interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 > interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 = 558046531 > The result of the last request is cached by snmpd. I haven't looked at the code to see if this is a feature or not. Query another variable then query ifInOctets.1 again and you should see that it has changed. John Capo From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:11:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20072 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:11:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20047 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id QAA13632; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:10:39 -0700 (MST) From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199611182310.QAA13632@hemi.com> Subject: Re: Help: ucd-snmpd w/freebsd To: jc@irbs.com (John Capo) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:10:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, wesley.hardaker@sphys.unil.ch In-Reply-To: from "John Capo" at Nov 18, 96 06:03:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The result of the last request is cached by snmpd. I haven't looked > at the code to see if this is a feature or not. Query another > variable then query ifInOctets.1 again and you should see that it > has changed. John, Thanks for the reply. You're indeed correct... if I query the entire series with snmpwalk, the counters get changed as expected. I think this is a bug (other variables such as system.sysUpTime.0 do not exhibit the caching 'feature', nor do any other smtpd servers I have access to, such as Cisco and Xylogics boxes, cache these counters.) It doesn't make sense anyway to do so. Thanks again, -Ade Barkah ------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:11:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20071 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:11:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20057 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:10:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [198.142.2.24]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA23708; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:10:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (proff@localhost) by suburbia.net (8.7.4/Proff-950810) id KAA08176; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:10:30 +1100 From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199611182310.KAA08176@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: 1600x1200 Modelines To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:10:27 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611182032.NAA25998@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 18, 96 01:32:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone have one? I just got a new Nanao F2-21, and I'd like to try out > 1600x120 on it, but I don't even have an example one to try out? > > (Yes, I have a video card capable of driving it). > > > Nate > Modeline "etbig3" 90 1792 1800 1820 2048 1170 1180 1195 1290 Interlace Close. -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ |Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | |proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | |proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | C7F81C2AA32D7D4E4D360A2ED2098E0D | +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:21:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21161 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21147 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:20:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA00230; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:20:07 -0500 Received: from dg-rtp by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:20 EST Received: from dg-rtp.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id PAA00823 for FreeBSD.org!Hackers; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:26:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from reggae.ncren.net by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA16218; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:28:33 -0500 Received: from mcnc.UUCP by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA25370; Mon, 18 Nov 96 14:27:50 -0500 Received: from ncnoc.ncren.net by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA24910; Mon, 18 Nov 96 13:51:16 -0500 Received: from robin.mcnc.org (robin.mcnc.org [128.109.130.29]) by ncnoc.ncren.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20411 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:38:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.mcnc.org by robin.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id NAA20276; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:37:01 -0500 for Received: from robin.mcnc.org by ns.mcnc.org (SMI-8.6/SAM 100194 13:34:37) id SAA06763; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:38:08 GMT Received: from ns.mcnc.org by robin.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id WAA10328; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:21:44 -0500 for Received: from relay6.UU.NET by ns.mcnc.org (SMI-8.6/SAM 100194 13:34:37) id DAA05469; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:22:47 GMT Received: from coyote.Artisoft.COM by relay6.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: coyote.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.162]) id QQbqaf22020; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:21:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by coyote.Artisoft.COM (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29740 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA21119; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:20:15 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:20 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA26779; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:15:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA23035; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:16:51 -0500 (EST) Posted-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:22:47 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:16:51 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199611160116.UAA23035@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!lambert.org!terry, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!ponds!rivers Subject: Re: Even more info on daily panics... Cc: ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!cet.co.jp!michaelh, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!FreeBSD.org!Hackers, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!lambert.org!terry, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!rivers, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!root.com!dg, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!lambert.org!terry Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > If you look at the BSD4.4-Lite2 code, you will see they cleaned this > > > up (using a fix just as kludgy as my one liner) by using kern_lock.c > > > functions instead of smearing the lock state. > > > > Err, umm, I had to be a naysayer - but I've gotten two examples > > of the one-liner fix that didn't address my particular problem. > > > > Granted, I could have messed something up; I'd be happy to retry > > it all... > > You said it was fixed. > > Then you put in the printf, but removed the unlock, and it (understandably) > blew up. > Can you point me to the code I removed in 2.1.5-STABLE? I don't see anything missing when I diff my changes and the original source. - Dave R. - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:21:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21166 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21152 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA00235; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:20:09 -0500 Received: from dg-rtp by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:20 EST Received: from dg-rtp.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id PAA00826 for freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from reggae.ncren.net by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA16234; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:28:46 -0500 Received: from mcnc.UUCP by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA25372; Mon, 18 Nov 96 14:27:52 -0500 Received: from ncnoc.ncren.net by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA24914; Mon, 18 Nov 96 13:51:24 -0500 Received: from robin.mcnc.org (robin.mcnc.org [128.109.130.29]) by ncnoc.ncren.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20414 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:38:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.mcnc.org by robin.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id NAA20286; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:37:03 -0500 for Received: from robin.mcnc.org by ns.mcnc.org (SMI-8.6/SAM 100194 13:34:37) id SAA06767; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:38:11 GMT Received: from ns.mcnc.org by robin.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id WAA10335; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:21:49 -0500 for Received: from relay6.UU.NET by ns.mcnc.org (SMI-8.6/SAM 100194 13:34:37) id DAA05481; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:22:52 GMT Received: from coyote.Artisoft.COM by relay6.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: coyote.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.162]) id QQbqaf22032; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by coyote.Artisoft.COM (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29743 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:20:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA21228; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:20:17 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:20 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA26831; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA23050; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:18:36 -0500 (EST) Posted-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:22:52 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:18:36 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199611160118.UAA23050@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!lambert.org!terry, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!ponds!rivers Subject: Re: daily panics - the saga continues... Cc: ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!rivers, ponds!uunet.uu.net!ponds!lambert.org!terry Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Sounds like a reasonable explanation.... but... > > > > In the 2.1.5R and 2.1.5-STABLE code, there is no call to > > simple_unlock(&vnode_free_list_slock) - in fact, there is no > > simple_unlock() in the entire kern sub-directory... > > > > I think there's some 2.1.5 vs. -current confusion? > > Shit. My local machine has BSD4.4-Lite2 integrated... sorry. 8-(. > > Which code, exactly, are you running? 2.1.5-STABLE as of Oct. 17th. > > > if (freevnodes < (numvnodes >> 2) || > > numvnodes < desiredvnodes || > > ! vp == NULL || /* list empty */ > > ! vp->v_usecount) /* queue wrapped */ > > ! { > > For your code, this might need to be: > > > if (freevnodes < (numvnodes >> 2) || > > numvnodes < desiredvnodes || > > ! vp == NULL || /* list empty */ > > ! (vp->v_usecount && vp->v_usage == 0)) /* queue wrapped */ > > ! { > > Damn, I'm getting old. > Ok, I'll bite - just how old is old? :-) - Dave R. - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:21:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21176 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:21:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21151 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA00260; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:20:12 -0500 Received: from lambert.org by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:20 EST Received: from dg-rtp.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id PAA00830 for freefall.freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from reggae.ncren.net by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA16263; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:29:40 -0500 Received: from mcnc.UUCP by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA25373; Mon, 18 Nov 96 14:27:53 -0500 Received: from ncnoc.ncren.net by reggae.ncren.net (5.65/tas-reggae/may94) id AA24926; Mon, 18 Nov 96 13:51:48 -0500 Received: from robin.mcnc.org (robin.mcnc.org [128.109.130.29]) by ncnoc.ncren.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20392; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.mcnc.org by robin.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id NAA20140; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:36:17 -0500 for Received: from robin.mcnc.org by ns.mcnc.org (SMI-8.6/SAM 100194 13:34:37) id SAA06731; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:37:25 GMT Received: from ns.mcnc.org by robin.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id RAA03521; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:08:34 -0500 for Received: from relay6.UU.NET by ns.mcnc.org (SMI-8.6/SAM 100194 13:34:37) id WAA05833; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:09:39 GMT Received: from coyote.Artisoft.COM by relay6.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: coyote.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.162]) id QQbqdc10665; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by coyote.Artisoft.COM (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00840; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04822; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:56:10 -0700 Posted-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:09:39 GMT From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611162156.OAA04822@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Another possible explanation about my daily panics... To: ponds!ponds!rivers (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:56:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!root.com!dg, ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!freefall.freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers, ponds!Artisoft.COM!ponds!lambert.org!terry In-Reply-To: <199611161258.HAA26617@lakes.water.net> from "Thomas David Rivers" at Nov 16, 96 07:58:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Well - I guess my theory about the modulus operation and turning on > the "is allocated" bit in ffs_valloc.c didn't work out. Sorry I didn't respond to it... It actually is not supposed to take the cylinder group into account; the code you wanted to correct was not an omission in the FFS code. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:27:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21611 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21602 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <18393(1)>; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:21:21 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177558>; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:21:11 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: Ade Barkah cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help: ucd-snmpd w/freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:22:44 PST." <199611182122.OAA09009@hemi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:21:07 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Nov18.152111pst.177558@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't think that any of the drivers either initialize or update ifInOctets. (actually, a couple appear to update it) Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 15:53:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA23674 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:53:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA23668 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA16957; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:44:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3290F4E6.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:44:38 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Device filesystem stumbling block] References: <199611182131.OAA07701@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > the vnode in question is: > > $13 = { > > v_flag = 8192, > > v_usecount = 2, > > v_writecount = 0, > > v_holdcnt = 3, > > v_lastr = 0, > > v_id = 1568, > > v_mount = 0xf0b34800, > ********** 0xf0b34800 > > v_op = 0xf09c0a00, > > v_freelist = { > > tqe_next = 0xf0ae1800, > > tqe_prev = 0xdeadb > ******* This is suspicious, but should not be fatal > > }, > > v_mntvnodes = { > > le_next = 0xf0ae1900, > > le_prev = 0xf0b34814 > ********** 0xf0b34814 > > Last time I looked, sizeof(struct vnode) is larger than what you have > here: > > 0xf0b34814 - 0xf0b34800 = 0x14 = 20 bytes > > I would say your v_mntvnodes is corrupt, or this particular vnode is > corrupt. Again, if it's the le_prev that's blown, then this should > not be fatal. I don't think this is it, in fact I think that this may just be some invalid fields or something.. it doesn't seem to be related... > > > and the buf in question is the buf holding the superblock for the > > filesystem. It is marked BUSY, but nothing is dealing with it so > > getblk waits forever. for the life of me I can't figure out > > what I need to add to devfs to make that block be handled. > > Try adding the FORCECLOSE flag to the ffs_flushfiles() call in > ffs_unmount() in /sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c. > > flags |= FORCECLOSE; > if (error = ffs_flushfiles(mp, flags, p)) > > If it "fixes" it, then it should be possible to get a better fix. maybe.... but I think it's because of cunfusion about which filesystem is suposed to handle the work. > > > I don't understand what is supposed to find it and do the write back > > that it is apparently waiting for. > > I've looked in the 4.4 book but unfortunatly it doesn't seem to cover > > this anywhere I can see. Certainly it lacks a clear diagram of > > the linking in of filesystem meta-data in the buffer system. > > I don't know where this buffer is hung off. > > I guess I'm going to be single stepping through 'mount' > > tomorrow to try figure this out, but any hints in the meanwhile > > would be gratefully accepted.. > > One question occurs to me: is this the / FS? If it is, then it will > never unbusy, since the devfs is mounted on it... right? no, these are literally from the example I gave... mount -t devfs devfs /mnt mount /mnt/wd0e /data/mnt unmount /data/mnt > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 16:52:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29627 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29513 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:51:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id LAA09605; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:51:14 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:51:12 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: AH2940 complains about disk geometry Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I just pulled a Conner CFP4207S 4.2 GB hdd out of a machine with a Adaptec 1542CF and put it in one with an Adaptec 2940. On bootup, the 2940 complained about the partitioning geometry 4096/64/16 not being compatible with booting or something, and it should be 1024/255/16. This message is followed by a 'Press any key to boot' message. The 2940 is in a production machine, so I could not leave the disk in there regardless, in case an unattended reboot was needed. I had a look in the Adaptec BIOS menus for ignoring that check, and I had a quick attempt to change the disk partitioning, but both failed. Can anyone tell me how to fix the disk or the adaptor, please. Thanks, Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 16:52:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29642 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29599 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA02302 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:49:42 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA19032 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:49:42 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id AAA02882 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:36:10 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611182336.AAA02882@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:36:10 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Bob Bishop at "Nov 18, 96 08:42:27 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bob Bishop wrote: > Run a caching-only nameserver locally? I'm doing this, but sendmail would still try to resolve all names using DNS, thus causing large timeouts. You really need `nocanonify' for it, otherwise it will try to canonify each and any mail addressee. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 16:53:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29858 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29450 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:50:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA02326; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:49:52 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA19041; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:49:52 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id BAA03594; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:42:07 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611190042.BAA03594@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: sendmail without DNS (was: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2).) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:42:07 +0100 (MET) Cc: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Marc Slemko at "Nov 18, 96 12:17:21 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Marc Slemko wrote: > I have tried nocanonify, nodns, a service.switch file and perhaps a few > other things that I can't remember right now, but sendmail still tries to > do DNS lookups. You must do something wrong. I'm using a local nameserver, but as you can see, it's only used for local lookups: uriah # kill -USR1 `cat /var/run/named.pid ` uriah # echo "hi you" | mail -s "test mail" marcs@znep.com uriah # kill -USR2 `cat /var/run/named.pid ` uriah # cat /var/tmp/named.run Debug turned ON, Level 1 datagram from [127.0.0.1].4970, fd 6, len 35; now Tue Nov 19 01:33:38 1996 req: nlookup(uriah.heep.sax.de) id 22463 type=1 class=1 req: found 'uriah.heep.sax.de' as 'uriah.heep.sax.de' (cname=0) ns_req: answer -> [127.0.0.1].4970 fd=6 id=22463 size=124 Local datagram from [127.0.0.1].4971, fd 6, len 42; now Tue Nov 19 01:33:38 1996 req: nlookup(1.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa) id 22464 type=12 class=1 req: found '1.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa' as '1.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa' (cname=0) ns_req: answer -> [127.0.0.1].4971 fd=6 id=22464 size=139 Local Debug turned OFF That's a simple turnaround for resolving the local host name. We can even stop the nameserver just for testing: uriah # kill -STOP `cat /var/run/named.pid ` uriah # (echo "/bind/s/^/#"; echo "w"; echo "q") | ed /etc/host.conf 105 #bind 106 uriah # echo "hi you" | mail -s "test mail" marcs@znep.com uriah # mailq Mail Queue (1 request) --Q-ID-- --Size-- -----Q-Time----- ------------Sender/Recipient------------ BAA03279* (no control file) (Well, that's the queue file from my /etc/daily that's just running right now. Your mail did already go out to the UUCP spool by that time, no additional delay for nameserver attempts etc.) uriah # kill -CONT `cat /var/run/named.pid ` This is with no compile-time sendmail trickery, a plain sendmail compilation from -current (as of a few weeks ago), with the following .mc file: include(`../m4/cf.m4') VERSIONID(`$Id: uriah.mc,v 1.11 1996/04/27 10:15:52 r Exp $') OSTYPE(bsd4.4)dnl FEATURE(nodns)dnl FEATURE(nocanonify)dnl FEATURE(mailertable)dnl define(`confMIME_FORMAT_ERRORS', `False') define(`confMESSAGE_TIMEOUT', `7d/3d') define(`UUCP_RELAY', sax.sax.de) define(`UUCP_MAX_SIZE', 200000) define(`LOCAL_MAILER_ARGS', `mail -b $u') MAILER(local)dnl MAILER(smtp)dnl MAILER(uucp)dnl Op noreceipts Cw uriah uriah.sax.de Cw heep.sax.de Cw jette jette.sax.de Cw uriah.UUCP Cw ppp-uriah.interface-business.de -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 16:54:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA00227 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:54:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29717 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA02297; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:49:41 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA19031; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:49:40 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id AAA02854; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:33:51 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611182333.AAA02854@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:33:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: markd@Grizzly.COM (Mark Diekhans) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199611181730.JAA01379@osprey.grizzly.com> from Mark Diekhans at "Nov 18, 96 09:30:23 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Diekhans wrote: > I disabled the use of DNS by sendmail by adding the file /etc/service.switch > containing the line: > > hosts files You're sure you don't confuse FreeBSD and Solaris here? ;-) (But no, even modifying /etc/host.conf won't do it, but the answer is in the FAQ.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 16:54:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA00273 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:54:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00211 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:54:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from osprey.grizzly.com by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id QAA25695; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from markd@localhost) by osprey.grizzly.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id QAA02466; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:54:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:54:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611190054.QAA02466@osprey.grizzly.com> From: Mark Diekhans To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199611182333.AAA02854@uriah.heep.sax.de> (message from J Wunsch on Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:33:51 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As Mark Diekhans wrote: > >> I disabled the use of DNS by sendmail by adding the file /etc/service.switch >> containing the line: >> >> hosts files > >You're sure you don't confuse FreeBSD and Solaris here? ;-) I have made a lot of mistakes in my life, but running Solaris isn't one of them: osprey-26>uname -a FreeBSD osprey.grizzly.com 2.2-961014-SNAP FreeBSD 2.2-961014-SNAP #0: Tue Oct 22 19:17:50 PDT 1996 root@:/usr/src/sys/compile/OSPREY i386 osprey-27>strings /usr/sbin/sendmail|fgrep service.switch /etc/service.switch From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 16:57:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01050 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01038 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA12234 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA02290; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:49:39 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA19030; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:49:39 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id AAA02832; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:32:06 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611182332.AAA02832@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:32:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Marc Slemko at "Nov 18, 96 08:34:12 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Marc Slemko wrote: > I am running TCP/IP, however only sometimes; ie. a dial on demand > connection. If it isn't recompiled, no matter how you configure it, > sendmail will try a DNS lookup for each bit of mail it receives, causing > the dial on demand link to come up. No. Use FEATURE(nodns) FEATURE(nocanonify) Of course, you could also try reading the FAQ ;-) 9.18. How do I use sendmail for mail delivery with UUCP? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 17:15:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA02710 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02681; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.8.3/8.7.3) id BAA02796; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:17:07 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199611190117.BAA02796@veda.is> Subject: split speed sio port? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:17:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is it possible with the sio driver to set a serial port to receive at 38,4 kb/s and transmit at 115,2 kb/s simultaneously? How would this be achieved? As a last resort, I could crosswire 2 ports into a single serial-port connector, but how is it done using only the one port? -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 17:32:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA03753 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03745 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA25471; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:02:03 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: from "Eric J. Schwertfeger" at "Nov 18, 96 11:08:31 am" To: ejs@bfd.com (Eric J. Schwertfeger) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:02:02 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eric J. Schwertfeger stands accused of saying: > > In this case, replace badly written with commonly written, and it does > become a fair comparison. There is no universally available hash array > library for C. Tcl makes for a pretty mean hash library, and look, it's even shipped as a standard part of the system! 8) (New thread starts here.) I'm aware that people will want to scream, but I _do_ believe that we should take some steps towards incorporating perl in the base system, as we have done (successfully, and IMHO very usefully) with Tcl. I would appreciate input from serious Perl backers on the following : - a means for optionally disabling the build of individual components of the base system, in such a fashion that the build may proceed without them. This should allow people who hate Perl and Tcl to set CONTRIB_NOPERL and CONTRIB_NOTCL during their builds for example, and have nuked the src/contrib/... directories involved. This dovetails nicely with the CVSup 'refuse' feature. - a contrib-ready Perl, at release quality. ie., not the 'patch de jour' but the equivalent of a -STABLE version. - an undertaking from several to keep an eye on Perl development, and update the in-contrib Perl as appropriate. - input on the modifications necessary (if any) to allow system libraries to be loaded and used by Perl. I have WIP on this for Tcl, and I feel that it is a highly desirable feature that should be allowed for. If we can meet the above requirements, I feel we have an excellent case for putting Perl in the main tree. I would also encourage anyone that is working on seperating the development tools from the 'base' system to consider carefully the distinction between 'development' and 'runtime', as that's kinda grey with these languages, but on reflection is a sensible attitude to take. I do _not_ feel that having Perl in the ports collection allows for it to be usefully considered a part of the system. If we have to go to a componentised/layered structure for the base, then so be it. A point to consider : I _loathe_ Perl. Reading it gives me a headache, and I would sooner snort powdered lithium than program in it. Understand that I think Perl is relevant for what it is, and not what I feel about it. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 17:39:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA04085 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04077 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA25521; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:08:53 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611190138.MAA25521@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error (2.1.5) In-Reply-To: <199611182223.QAA05988@friley216.res.iastate.edu> from Chris Csanady at "Nov 18, 96 04:23:21 pm" To: ccsanady@friley216.res.iastate.edu (Chris Csanady) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:08:53 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chris Csanady stands accused of saying: > This is bad. Im concerned that this will not be fixed for 2.2 since I have > seen similar messages in 3.0. It would be really nice to have a fix, and if > anyone has something that I may try, I would really apreciate it. It's not likely to be fixed if it is truly the hardware error that it appears to be. > Here are the error messages that are repeated thousands of times: > > Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error > Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID > 2531 failure > Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error Where are the error messages from the device driver? What are you swapping on? Are you using NFS for either swap or your binaries? > Chris Csanady -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 17:41:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA04300 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:41:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04266 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:41:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA25563; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:10:18 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611190140.MAA25563@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: 1600x1200 Modelines In-Reply-To: from Andrew Stesin at "Nov 19, 96 00:33:53 am" To: stesin@gu.net (Andrew Stesin) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:10:16 +1030 (CST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew Stesin stands accused of saying: > > ... and also 1152x900 -- XFree doesn't have them out of the box, > though might be nice to have some. XFree 3.2 is giving us an 11x9 video mode out-of-the-box on all our 1M SVGA systems, so I know it works. Use XF86Setup at least once. > Andrew Stesin -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 17:53:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA04992 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:53:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04981 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA03582; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:51:25 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA19870; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:51:25 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id BAA03957; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:59:22 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611190059.BAA03957@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error (2.1.5) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:59:21 +0100 (MET) Cc: ccsanady@friley216.res.iastate.edu (Chris Csanady) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199611182223.QAA05988@friley216.res.iastate.edu> from Chris Csanady at "Nov 18, 96 04:23:21 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris Csanady wrote: > Here are the error messages that are repeated thousands of times: > > Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error > Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID > 2531 failure ``Probably hardware error.'' (I think the only other case where this is known to happens is vnode pager input from NFS, e.g. if the NFS server for a running executable dropped away.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 18:22:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA06510 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06504 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id DAA04749; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:22:24 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id DAA20222; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:22:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id DAA04869; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:15:14 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611190215.DAA04869@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error (2.1.5) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:15:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: ccsanady@friley216.res.iastate.edu Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199611190138.MAA25521@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Nov 19, 96 12:08:53 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > > Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error > > Where are the error messages from the device driver? What are you swapping > on? Are you using NFS for either swap or your binaries? Btw., *vnode* pager input ==> does not input from swap but from a plain file (IMHO) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 18:23:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA06547 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:23:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06530; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id DAA04769; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:23:15 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id DAA20241; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:23:14 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id DAA04976; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:21:49 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611190221.DAA04976@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: split speed sio port? To: adam@veda.is (Adam David) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:21:49 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199611190117.BAA02796@veda.is> from Adam David at "Nov 19, 96 01:17:03 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Adam David wrote: > Is it possible with the sio driver to set a serial port to receive at > 38,4 kb/s and transmit at 115,2 kb/s simultaneously? No, the hardware doesn't support this. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 18:38:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA07520 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:38:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA07490; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id NAA25979; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:07:43 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611190237.NAA25979@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: split speed sio port? In-Reply-To: <199611190117.BAA02796@veda.is> from Adam David at "Nov 19, 96 01:17:03 am" To: adam@veda.is (Adam David) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:07:41 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Adam David stands accused of saying: > Is it possible with the sio driver to set a serial port to receive at > 38,4 kb/s and transmit at 115,2 kb/s simultaneously? How would this be > achieved? As a last resort, I could crosswire 2 ports into a single > serial-port connector, but how is it done using only the one port? It isn't. The 8250 has a single baudrate generator, and doesn't support an external clock in the configuration normally used in PCs. You either need a card with a UART that handles split speeds (eg. ESCC), or as you suggested use two ports. > Adam David -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 19:56:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA11800 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (friley216.res.iastate.edu [129.186.78.216]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11793 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:56:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley216.res.iastate.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07278; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:56:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611190356.VAA07278@friley216.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error (2.1.5) In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:08:53 +1030. <199611190138.MAA25521@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:56:14 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Chris Csanady stands accused of saying: >> This is bad. Im concerned that this will not be fixed for 2.2 since I have >> seen similar messages in 3.0. It would be really nice to have a fix, and if >> anyone has something that I may try, I would really apreciate it. > >It's not likely to be fixed if it is truly the hardware error that it >appears to be. As it happens on any of our 16 (identical) machines, this is not likely. > >> Here are the error messages that are repeated thousands of times: >> >> Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error >> Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID >> 2531 failure >> Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error > >Where are the error messages from the device driver? What are you swapping >on? Are you using NFS for either swap or your binaries? Swap is local, while all binaries and home dirs are mounted over NFS from an Irix 6.2 server. I've seen this error from a 2.1.5 server as well though. Our network is fast and very rarely saturated, so I do not believe that it would actually lose contact with the server unless its a server problem. However the same thing works from our SGI cluster, so I would not think that the case. We will be installing patches this friday, one of which i think is NFS related, so I will check that again though. > >> Chris Csanady > >-- >]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ >]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ >]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ >]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ >]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 20:34:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA13304 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (friley216.res.iastate.edu [129.186.78.216]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA13295 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from friley216.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley216.res.iastate.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07385; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:34:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611190434.WAA07385@friley216.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error (2.1.5) In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:59:21 +0100. <199611190059.BAA03957@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:34:11 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As Chris Csanady wrote: > >> Here are the error messages that are repeated thousands of times: >> >> Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error >> Oct 16 11:04:09 d /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID >> 2531 failure > >``Probably hardware error.'' > >(I think the only other case where this is known to happens is vnode >pager input from NFS, e.g. if the NFS server for a running executable >dropped away.) Well, if it is losing contact with the NFS server, then this is a problem as well. :-) Anyone know why this might happen? Actually, on my current(3.0) machine, it actually gives me a message about losing contact with the nfs server. Sometimes this is permanent (or seems to be) until I reboot, but very rare. Chris Csanady >-- >cheers, J"org > >joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE >Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 20:41:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA13731 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA13723 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id PAA27023; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:11:09 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611190441.PAA27023@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_input: I/O read error (2.1.5) In-Reply-To: <199611190356.VAA07278@friley216.res.iastate.edu> from Chris Csanady at "Nov 18, 96 09:56:14 pm" To: ccsanady@friley216.res.iastate.edu (Chris Csanady) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:11:08 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chris Csanady stands accused of saying: > > Swap is local, while all binaries and home dirs are mounted over NFS > from an Irix 6.2 server. I've seen this error from a 2.1.5 server > as well though. Our network is fast and very rarely saturated, so I > do not believe that it would actually lose contact with the server > unless its a server problem. However the same thing works from our > SGI cluster, so I would not think that the case. We will be > installing patches this friday, one of which i think is NFS related, > so I will check that again though. Ok; I've seen similar things with NFS as well, although normally caused by cable dropouts. (In our workshop we use coax because it's more suited to rapid teardown and rearrangement and RJ45's wouldn't last long, but with the amount of coax strung between racks it's easy to get the wrong one...) Which NFS mount options are you using? It's possible that the NFS code is giving up very quickly and not retrying the read, so even light network traffic _could_ result in a lost/damaged datagram. Do the machines show any/many input errors for the network interface? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 20:48:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA14044 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:48:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.blaze.net.au (server.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14022 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.blaze.net.au ([203.17.53.1]) by blaze.net.au with SMTP id <188421-143>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:47:23 +1000 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:47:13 +1100 (EST) From: "David L. Nugent" Reply-To: "David L. Nugent" To: Adam David cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: split speed sio port? In-Reply-To: <199611190117.BAA02796@veda.is> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Adam David wrote: > Is it possible with the sio driver to set a serial port to receive at > 38,4 kb/s and transmit at 115,2 kb/s simultaneously? No. At least, not with a standard PC UART (8250 family). > This is n would this be achieved? You need different hardware. The Intel 82510 *may* be able to support it since it has independant transmit and receive clocks, but since I've never tried, I couldn't guarantee it. Normally the 82510 runs in 8250/16450 compatible mode, so this feature (programmable clocks) is normally disabled. I believe that the intention of the clocks weren't so much to support split baud rates, but to provide for psuedo synchronous support (not that I'm aware of anyone using it, but hey - the theory is good! :-)). Otherwise, the chip pretty much pales against the NS16550AFN with only 4 byte FIFOs, despite the other useless but original features. I doubt that FreeBSD's sio driver would support these 82510-specific features, however. Perhaps there are some third-party sio boards which do much the same sort of thing, but I've not come across any. > As a last resort, I could crosswire 2 ports into a single > serial-port connector, but how is it done using only the one port? Hmm. Good luck. :-) Just of interest, why on earth would you want to do this? Regards, David From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 21:09:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA14825 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:09:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA14816 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:09:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04131; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:09:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:09:37 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Mark Mayo cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Announce: Alternative Mail Archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Mark Mayo wrote: > Hi all, I've been playing with setting up my own mail archive of the > freebsd discussion lists! To start with, I've been archiving the > -questions list for several days, and i was wondering if someone would > take a look and tell me what you think? I'm glad to see someone take a crack at this. I hastily threw together the existing mail archives just over two years ago and they have needed an overhaul ever since. Please don't take any of the comments/criticisms below as an attempt at defending the existing archives. :) Since I've been down the hypermail path before, a couple things: First, browsing, as hypermail sets it up, is of very limited utility for finding anything in list archives of FreeBSD scale (currently about 300 megabytes and growing fast). Browsing is much better suited as a second step after an initial search has identified a few key messages. Using those keys, it is then useful to retrieve the thread context. Being able to re-sort a chunk of message by date, subject, author is useful, but only if the searcher has control over what is in the chunk. Hypermail just blindly chops things up into time segments and the chunk composition is static. The proper place for chunk sorting is on a set of retrieved messages. Second, indexing the messages after they have been processed by hypermail is a Bad Idea. This because you loose the potential of selectively searching header fields, and there is a lot of extra cruft that mucks up searches. Just as an example, because the word "thread" appears in almost every message generated by hypermail, it effectively becomes a stopword. Now that is a bummer if you want to look up something on threads in the programming sense. Third, hypermail is going to be a pain when you try and throw a useful chunk of the archives at it. Considering that a majority of the messages in the database will probably never be retrieved in full, it is probably a lot more efficient in the long run to store and index them in their native mailbox format and generate HTML on the fly. Threads can be re-constructed with reasonable reliability with creative behind the scenes queries on message ID and subject fields. This also avoids hypermail's annoying trait of breaking threads on arbitrary (month|week) boundaries. Fourth, the choices "All", "Some", "Boolean" are in fact all boolean. I have no problem with "All". "Some" is not really correct and I think "Any" would be a better choice. "Boolean" implies that the first two are not which is false. Fifth, the long format for the search summary has too much garbage while the short doesn't have enough. The essential stuff to have is author, subject and date. I gather from a quick look at the ht://Dig docs that this is tweakable. Sixth, (another hypermail slam) using a proportional font for the message body is a Bad Idea, particularly for technically oriented lists where people are prone to including ascii diagrams. Seventh, does the search even work? I tried "ASUS" and it turned up nothing, while the browse list clearly has messages with that word in it. Hm..... Essentially, I'm glad someone is doing this, but I don't think the architecture is right. The problem is that good IR systems are proprietary, and free IR systems are crap. Of course, I've spent quite a lot of time reading and writing about IR theory, so I'm pretty cynical about the whole field. (Since this is the direction of my Ph.D. research, maybe it isn't such a good thing?) An article some time back in WIRED about web indexing mentioned that the field hasn't had any great developments in the last 20 years. Absolutely true. Despite claims to the contrary, the computer science hot-shots with their whiz-bang web search engines haven't changed things a bit. Once you peel away the web glitz, its still 1960's boolean search technology. Oh well..... :) -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 21:37:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA17055 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:37:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA17049 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:37:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA17793 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:37:08 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id GAA09332 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:36:32 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.2/keltia-uucp-2.9) id AAA26116; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:43:52 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:43:51 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). References: <199611180748.XAA14898@salsa.gv.ssi1.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50.05 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2686 In-Reply-To: <199611180748.XAA14898@salsa.gv.ssi1.com>; from Don Lewis on Nov 17, 1996 23:48:22 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ redirected to -hackers ] According to Don Lewis: > comp.mail.sendmail that qmail only announces this to keep sendmail from > doing an 8->7 rewrite. Other than that, qmail just sends 8 bits even > if it is talking to some crusty old mailer that strips of the eighth And you don't have the advantages of the ESMTP extensions like DSN... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #28: Sun Nov 10 13:37:41 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 18 23:31:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA21090 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA21085 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.8.3/8.7.3) id HAA03168; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:33:04 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199611190733.HAA03168@veda.is> Subject: Re: split speed sio port? In-Reply-To: from "David L. Nugent" at "Nov 19, 96 03:47:13 pm" To: davidn@blaze.net.au Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:33:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As a last resort, I could crosswire 2 ports into a single > > serial-port connector, but how is it done using only the one port? > > Hmm. Good luck. :-) > > Just of interest, why on earth would you want to do this? > > > Regards, > David > Metered incoming bandwidth, "free" outgoing. Actually, I'm looking for a synchronous solution, with 32 kb/s to 128 kb/s incoming and anything from 512kb/s and upwards outgoing. But I can make do with asynchronous in the meantime. (synchronous can also be done with 2 ports). Of course I'll need (in the general case) a driver that can run a virtual port over a set of physical ports (serial port equivalent of ccd :) or (in the specific case) a "push-pull" driver using half each of 2 physical ports. I might find myself writing such a beast. Alternatively, it may well be that such asymmetrical IP routing is acceptable (and maybe even desirable) along such a closed section of network pipeline, or might even turn out to be completely invisible to that level of things. I can route via ppp0 from 10.0.0.1 to 10.0.1.1 (also let's say, on ppp0) and route via ppp1 from 10.0.1.1 back to 10.0.0.1 (also let's say, on ppp1). The routing doesn't even care what IP# picks up the connection on the other end for delivery. Will FreeBSD allow this scenario currently? :) (I know, I know. Try it and see ;) -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 00:24:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA22729 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA22724 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id SAA28360; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:53:49 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611190823.SAA28360@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: split speed sio port? In-Reply-To: <199611190733.HAA03168@veda.is> from Adam David at "Nov 19, 96 07:33:02 am" To: adam@veda.is (Adam David) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:53:48 +1030 (CST) Cc: davidn@blaze.net.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Adam David stands accused of saying: > > Will FreeBSD allow this scenario currently? :) > (I know, I know. Try it and see ;) Why do people keep trying to do bandwidth-throttling with hardware? It's far too much of a pain in the backside! Use the spiffo 'divert socket' stuff and write a management program that tracks how much data it has forwarded for each of the classes in a given period. This gives you total flexibility, and saves us from trying to second-guess harebrained ideas 8) > Adam David -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 03:20:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA27989 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:20:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA27966 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA29476; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:20:04 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:20 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA02287; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:41:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA04667; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:43:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:43:45 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199611191043.FAA04667@lakes.water.net> To: marcs@znep.com, ponds!mail.id.net!rls Subject: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2). Cc: ponds!freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers, ponds!keltia.freenix.fr!roberto Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [moved to -hackers from security. It started with a discussion of > sendmail with uucp; I stated that sendmail still tries to use DNS no > matter how you configure it and you have to recompile it to make it stop.] > > On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Robert Shady wrote: > > > > Incorrect. It RUNS without DNS but still TRIES to use it. If you really > > > don't have IP connectivity, then difference doesn't matter because it > > > still works when the lookup fails, however it still does try and the > > > difference does matter if you have partial IP connectivity. I have a > > > system setup with nocanonify and all the other config file tweaks I know > > > of, and it still tries to use DNS as a tcpdump shows quite clearly. This > > > system is running 8.7.5, so things may have been changed in more recent > > > versions but I can't say for sure; if this has changed in more recent > > > versions, please let me know. > > > > > > I _think_ the define that needs to be set to 0 is NAMED_BIND, but don't > > > recall for sure. This has been gone over before on the lists. > > > > Out of curiosity, what interface exactly are you looking at if you aren't > > running tcp/ip? > > I am running TCP/IP, however only sometimes; ie. a dial on demand > connection. If it isn't recompiled, no matter how you configure it, > sendmail will try a DNS lookup for each bit of mail it receives, causing > the dial on demand link to come up. I am looking at the ppp (tun0) > interface. If you don't have IP running, or you don't have a route to a > nameserver, or you don't have a nameserver, you won't notice the lookup > but it still tries and, in this case, fails immediately. > > > Yes - we went through this when 2.1.5-RELEASE was created. Several people refered to the documentation that indicates you can (via your sendmail.cf) have sendmail not use DNS... but I was unable to make these work. If you compile sendmail (at least the version that originally came with 2.1.5) with the right options (they are discussed in the compile-time configuration include file) - you can disable use of DNS. This is what I, eventually, had to do. You'll find the entire discussion of this in the mail archives. - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 03:20:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA28006 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:20:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA27972 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA29491; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:20:06 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:20 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA02298; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:46:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA04689; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:48:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:48:02 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199611191048.FAA04689@lakes.water.net> To: marcs@znep.com, ponds!Grizzly.COM!markd Subject: Re: sendmail without DNS (was: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2).) Cc: ponds!freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As I mentioned before, and should have mentioned again when I moved it to > -hackers, that still does not prevent sendmail from trying to use DNS in > all cases. I've tried it. Quite a bit. > > I have tried nocanonify, nodns, a service.switch file and perhaps a few > other things that I can't remember right now, but sendmail still tries to > do DNS lookups. The last time this discussion came through the conclusion > was that the only way to change this was to recompile sendmail. AFAIK, > that is still the case. My experience exactly! If you read the sendmail documentation; you'll find a statement to that effect... It was previously claimed that nocanonify and nodns together would cause sendmail to not use DNS; but it didn't work for me either. I had to recompile sendmail to not use DNS... I did investigate what it took to run DNS; but it quickly degraded into a mess for me - my machine wants to participate in 3 different domains at the same time, and reading the DNS/BIND book on how to do this left me without a solution... I'd suggest recompiling :-) - Dave Rivers - > > On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Mark Diekhans wrote: > > > >[moved to -hackers from security. It started with a discussion of > > >sendmail with uucp; I stated that sendmail still tries to use DNS no > > >matter how you configure it and you have to recompile it to make it stop.] > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Robert Shady wrote: > > > > > >> > Incorrect. It RUNS without DNS but still TRIES to use it. If you really > > >> > don't have IP connectivity, then difference doesn't matter because it > > >> > still works when the lookup fails, however it still does try and the > > >> > difference does matter if you have partial IP connectivity. I have a > > >> > system setup with nocanonify and all the other config file tweaks I know > > >> > of, and it still tries to use DNS as a tcpdump shows quite clearly. This > > >> > system is running 8.7.5, so things may have been changed in more recent > > >> > versions but I can't say for sure; if this has changed in more recent > > >> > versions, please let me know. > > >> > > > >> > I _think_ the define that needs to be set to 0 is NAMED_BIND, but don't > > >> > recall for sure. This has been gone over before on the lists. > > > > I disabled the use of DNS by sendmail by adding the file /etc/service.switch > > containing the line: > > > > hosts files > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 03:58:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA29565 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:58:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA29560 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:58:38 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Lehey Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vPomb-000QyVC; Tue, 19 Nov 96 12:56 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.2/8.6.12) id LAA04128; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:35:25 +0100 (MET) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199611191035.LAA04128@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: aic0 (/dev/rst0) problem In-Reply-To: <199611182107.OAA07633@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Nov 18, 96 02:07:49 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:35:24 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: >> # tar cvf /dev/rst0 / >> ^C^Cst0: not ready (after a while) >> >> Is there anything special to that HP DAT drive? Blocksize which the driver >> cannot cope with? Compression on/off? I believe the driver is working in >> polled modes, at least not DMA driven. The board doesn't have busmaster >> DMA logic and the motherboard DMA doesn't seem (yet) implemented in the >> driver. > > Unless you set a dipswitch, it won't work with "audio DAT Tapes"; HP > is the first drive that whines about them. 8-(. Early 35470As didn't complain either. I don't have a functional one at the moment, but I recollect that I got a different error with this one (in fact, it was an old HP DDS tape that wasn't coded either :-). My current drive is a C1533, and it seems to handle the tape with no problems, so I can't check the message. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 03:58:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA29600 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA29587 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:58:51 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Lehey Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vPomd-000QyYC; Tue, 19 Nov 96 12:56 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.2/8.6.12) id LAA04113; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:29:14 +0100 (MET) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199611191029.LAA04113@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: aic0 (/dev/rst0) problem In-Reply-To: <199611181334.OAA20811@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from Christoph Kukulies at "Nov 18, 96 02:34:12 pm" To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph Kukulies) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:29:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christoph Kukulies writes: > > After a hard time getting two WD8013EPC cards working in my router box > with the aic0 driver/card present (had to wire the cards to different > ports/irqs/iomem) I'm still having problems getting the tape > working: > > FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Mon Nov 18 13:52:01 MET 1996 > kuku@bach.physik.rwth-aachen.de:/usr/src/sys/compile/CGATE > Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock... > i8254 clock: 1193402 Hz > CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) #it's an Amd 486/40 CPU > real memory = 8650752 (8448K bytes) > avail memory = 6881280 (6720K bytes) > Probing for devices on the ISA bus: > sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard > sc0: MDA/hercules <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> # Hercules(!) > ed0 at 0x200-0x21f irq 4 maddr 0xd0000 msize 16384 on isa # having this at > ed0: address 00:00:c0:fe:34:0a, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) # 0x300 made the > ed1 at 0x280-0x29f irq 3 maddr 0xd8000 msize 16384 on isa # card defunct > ed1: address 00:00:c0:10:1b:1e, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) > lpt0 at 0x3bc-0x3c3 irq 7 on isa > lpt0: Interrupt-driven port > lp0: TCP/IP capable interface > aic0 at 0x340-0x35f irq 11 on isa > (aic0:3:0): "HP HP35470A T503" type 1 removable SCSI 2 > st0(aic0:3:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, variable blocks, write-enabled > fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa > fdc0: NEC 765 > fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in > fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in > wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa > wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): > wd0: 81MB (166770 sectors), 981 cyls, 10 heads, 17 S/T, 512 B/S > npx0 on motherboard > npx0: INT 16 interface > st0(aic0:3:0): timed out # <<<< This is the result of a tar cvf /dev/rst0 / > st0(aic0:3:0): timed out > > And the system hangs at the tar command: > > # tar cvf /dev/rst0 / > ^C^Cst0: not ready (after a while) > > Is there anything special to that HP DAT drive? Yes. It has an MTBF of six months :-( > Blocksize which the driver cannot cope with? Compression on/off? I > believe the driver is working in polled modes, at least not DMA > driven. The board doesn't have busmaster DMA logic and the > motherboard DMA doesn't seem (yet) implemented in the driver. No problems there, but maybe the drive is really dead? When the tape is inserted, both of the LEDs should be continuous green (i.e. no flashing). It should handle any block size, but I've found that 64 kB (i.e. 128 blocks) gives best performance. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 04:00:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA29754 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA29741 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:04 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Lehey Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vPomc-000QyXC; Tue, 19 Nov 96 12:56 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.2/8.6.12) id LAA04102; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:24:24 +0100 (MET) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199611191024.LAA04102@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: AH2940 complains about disk geometry In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Nov 19, 96 11:51:12 am" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:24:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Daniel O'Callaghan writes: > > Hi, > > I just pulled a Conner CFP4207S 4.2 GB hdd out of a machine with a > Adaptec 1542CF and put it in one with an Adaptec 2940. On bootup, the > 2940 complained about the partitioning geometry 4096/64/16 not being > compatible with booting or something, and it should be 1024/255/16. > This message is followed by a 'Press any key to boot' message. > The 2940 is in a production machine, so I could not leave the disk in > there regardless, in case an unattended reboot was needed. > > I had a look in the Adaptec BIOS menus for ignoring that check, and I had > a quick attempt to change the disk partitioning, but both failed. > > Can anyone tell me how to fix the disk or the adaptor, please. Here's what I have: === root@freebie (/dev/ttyp2) /src/cvs-cur/2500 28 -> disklabel -r sd2 # /dev/rsd2c: type: SCSI disk: CFP4207S label: flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 104 tracks/cylinder: 20 sectors/cylinder: 2080 cylinders: 3998 sectors/unit: 8317919 rpm: 7200 interleave: 1 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 8 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] c: 8317919 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 3998*) h: 8317919 0 4.2BSD 512 4096 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 3998*) This is currently running under a 1542B, but it was on a 2940 before. You should disable DOS translation, or whatever they call it. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 04:00:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA29906 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA29863; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:44 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Lehey Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vPome-000QyZC; Tue, 19 Nov 96 12:56 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.2/8.6.12) id LAA03849; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:16:57 +0100 (MET) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199611191016.LAA03849@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: cdrom boot? In-Reply-To: <199611182249.XAA02579@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Nov 18, 96 11:49:54 pm" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:16:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current users), hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by freebie.lemis.de id LAA03849 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > As J.J.Ming wrote: > >> Is it current boot from cdrom ? > > Nobody ever came round who was really interested in persuing this. I think it's about time that the FreeBSD core team began paying some attention to the things which will gain acceptability of FreeBSD when compared to other free UNIXes. These include CD-ROM booting (which should be straightforward) and smooth support for ATAPI CD-ROMs (which apparently isn't). There's an article about CD-ROM booting in the current c't (December 1996), page 72. It starts with the promis "Sysadmins of Unix systems or Macintoshes have known about it for a long time. You don't need floppies to install a new operating system on a hard disk, just a CD-ROM". In summary, it says: - There's a new substandard on top of ISO 9660, El Torito (that's where they hacked out the scheme :-) - More and more motherboard BIOSes support El Torito, as do a number of SCSI host adapters. I built two machines yesterday, and both the (useless) host adapter and the motherboard BIOS support it. - The specs and a cookbook for making bootable CD-ROMs are available in Adobe Acrobat format (whatever that may be) from a link in http://www.ptltd.com/techs/specs.html. Maybe somebody can convert them to PostScript for the rest of us to look at. - There's also a document on making bootable CD-ROMs on http://mail.ncku.edu.tw/~thlx/bootcd.htm. J=F6rg, aren't you the right person to integrate this stuff? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 04:45:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA02495 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:45:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA02489 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:45:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA25573 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:46:27 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA25376 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:56:34 +0100 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:56:34 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199611191256.NAA25376@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: 2.2-ALPHA data point - positive Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had a router outage half an hour ago (FreeBSD acts as a router). The hard disk power cable got flakey thus resulting in a totally damaged FS. I decided to reinstall from 2.2-ALPHA and was up in 20 minutes again (Minimum system, 65 MB /, 21 MB swap, 8MB RAM, 486DX40 AMD, hercules graphic card, 2 WD8013EPC 16bit). Big applause for the current install. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 04:52:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA02861 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA02848 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.8.3/8.7.3) id MAA03409; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:53:42 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199611191253.MAA03409@veda.is> Subject: Re: split speed sio port? In-Reply-To: <199611190823.SAA28360@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Nov 19, 96 06:53:48 pm" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:53:40 +0000 (GMT) Cc: davidn@blaze.net.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Adam David stands accused of saying: > > > > Will FreeBSD allow this scenario currently? :) > > (I know, I know. Try it and see ;) Mike Smith says: > Why do people keep trying to do bandwidth-throttling with hardware? It's > far too much of a pain in the backside! > > Use the spiffo 'divert socket' stuff and write a management program that > tracks how much data it has forwarded for each of the classes in a given > period. This gives you total flexibility, and saves us from trying to > second-guess harebrained ideas 8) This is all very well, but when upstream is not (yet?) willing to implement such measures themselves and will not trust software that is located outside of their direct control, one has to make do with what is available. Of course, a proven product might catch their interest in terms of suitability. -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 05:29:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA04344 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:29:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain-work.iafrica.com (root@chain-work.iafrica.com [196.31.1.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA04272 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chain-work.iafrica.com (8.8.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA10569; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:21:17 +0200 (SAT) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:21:16 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aic0 (/dev/rst0) problem In-Reply-To: <199611181628.RAA21475@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: X-URL: http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan/ X-Alternate-Address: khetan@uunet.co.za X-Alternate-Address2: kg@iafrica.com X-Alternate-Address3: gjjkhe01@sonnenberg.uct.ac.za X-Alternate-Address4: khetan@chain.iafrica.com X-IRC-nick: chain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Christoph Kukulies wrote: >I hope not you are trying to create a tar archive on you CD-ROM drive :-) No, definitely not (so no, I wasn't that drunk :-> ) >At which operation exactly does it 'hang'? Any thing which would affect the CD-ROM. I'd try and mount it after a clean boot, and it would hang. I could then not recover that session. If I logged in on another vc, I would see that the mount process had been in a d-state, and a few minutes (literally) later, a kernel message would pop up saying device timed out (cd0). >I guess the AVA 1515 is the one with BIOS ROM and other circuitry >while mine (the AVA 1505) has no BIOS end decoding circuitry. The 1515 does have the bios rom - for all the good that it does. --khg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 09:06:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17281 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:06:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from cenotaph.snafu.de (root@gw-deadnet.snafu.de [194.121.229.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA17273 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 09:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by cenotaph.snafu.de from deadline.snafu.de using smtp id m0vPtbl-000ZjpC; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:05:13 +0100 (MET) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0vPtbi-00080FC; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:05:10 +0100 (MET) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:05:10 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.7 References: In-Reply-To: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Re: PnP in 2.1.6 and 2.2 X-Original-Newsgroups: lists.freebsd-hackers To: Tomas Klockar Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , Tomas Klockar writes: > Does anyone know if the 2.1.6-RELEASE or 2.2-RELEASE will support=20 > initialazion of pnp cards. I have an old 486 which doesn't support pnp > My two pnp cards one 3c509 and one gravis ultrasound PnP pro need this. > On my network card I can turned off PnP but the gravis card doesn't have = > this=20 > feature. > Also does any of them support the gravis card so I can get some sound out= > of it. I'm currently having the same problem with a ISA PnP ISDN card and have hacked my kernel a little bit to have a basic PnP support. Although it does not very much until now, but recognize all installed PnP cards and give information about their resource usage and such, I think I could manage to extend this to a fully functional PnP support with some help maybe. You must know that I'm not very experienced about kernel hacking until now. For a fully working PnP support the driver had to modify kernel device tables etc I think. Regards, Mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Fon: <+4930> 456 066 90 * ||----|| Germany Fax: <+4930> 456 066 91/92 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 10:28:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA22358 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from sophia.inria.fr (sophia.inria.fr [138.96.32.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA22343 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:27:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from chouette.inria.fr by sophia.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA27539 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:27:50 +0100 (MET) Received: by chouette.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA18620; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:27:49 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:27:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611191827.TAA18620@chouette.inria.fr> From: Emmanuel Duros To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Creating a device driv., Pb with outb, outw... Reply-to: Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am going to write a device driver for a communication card which is a receive-only interface for satellite links. First, I would like to write a peace of code outside the kernel (in user context) that would intialize the adapter with a sequence of outb functions to the correct interface address. With a very simple program such as: #include void main(void){ outb( 0x300, 1 ); } I always get a BUS ERROR. I also tried on the parallel port (0x378) without success. Any comments on this, why does this happen ? I am using FreeBSD 2.2-961006-SNAP and I noticed there is no man on these functions or on any low level functions, is this normal ? Could you also reply to my personal Email ? Thanks... Emmanuel From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 10:28:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA22398 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22389 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:28:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA09210; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:14:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:14:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 19, 96 12:02:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm aware that people will want to scream, but I _do_ believe that we > should take some steps towards incorporating perl in the base system, > as we have done (successfully, and IMHO very usefully) with Tcl. [ ... ] > - a contrib-ready Perl, at release quality. ie., not the 'patch de jour' > but the equivalent of a -STABLE version. > > - an undertaking from several to keep an eye on Perl development, and > update the in-contrib Perl as appropriate. This is the rub. PERL is not stable over the release cycle period for FreeBSD. People are *always* complaining "why don't you upgrade your PERL?", even when it it well known that an upgrade frequently requires updating all of the PERL-dependent scripts to the new syntax, since the syntax is not sufficiently stable. For FreeBSD, the biggest problem is PERL dependent ports and MajorDomo; PERL upgrades have been delayed for MajorDomo more than once in the past. > A point to consider : I _loathe_ Perl. Reading it gives me a > headache, and I would sooner snort powdered lithium than program in > it. Understand that I think Perl is relevant for what it is, and not > what I feel about it. At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 10:42:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23398 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:42:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23390 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:42:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00215 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:42:06 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA00231 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:38:36 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199611191838.TAA00231@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Turbo FreeBSD CD To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:38:36 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, I just today got a catalog in my PObox of Pacific HighTech CDROM. A bit to my surprise it has a 'Turbo FreeBSD' CDROM listed on it's cover. I contains 2.1.5R and a 2.2 SNAP (960801? it's very fine print). Comments? Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 11:28:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26124 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:28:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from tahoma.cwu.edu (skynyrd@tahoma.cwu.edu [198.104.65.220]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26117 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by tahoma.cwu.edu; id AA22296; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:28:35 -0800 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:28:35 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Wilko Bulte Cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD In-Reply-To: <199611191838.TAA00231@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well the great thing about FreeBSD is that it's FREE... so anybody can put it on a CD and sell it. My preference has always been to buy from Walnut Creek CDROM because they support the project. I personally subscribe to both the -RELEASE and -SNAP cd distributions and have had excellent experience dealing with the Walnut Creek people on the phone. Since we rely heavily on FreeBSD at work, I spec Walnut Creek as the CD-ROM of choice there as well. Thanks WC!!! -Chris On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Hi there, > > I just today got a catalog in my PObox of Pacific HighTech CDROM. > A bit to my surprise it has a 'Turbo FreeBSD' CDROM listed on it's > cover. I contains 2.1.5R and a 2.2 SNAP (960801? it's very > fine print). > > Comments? > > Wilko > _ ____________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands > |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 11:32:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26436 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:32:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26431 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA05204; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:31:47 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611191931.NAA05204@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:31:47 -0600 (CST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611191838.TAA00231@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Nov 19, 96 07:38:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi there, > > I just today got a catalog in my PObox of Pacific HighTech CDROM. > A bit to my surprise it has a 'Turbo FreeBSD' CDROM listed on it's > cover. I contains 2.1.5R and a 2.2 SNAP (960801? it's very > fine print). > > Comments? "Behind the times" mean anything to ya? :-) Now I know why I tell folks to buy from WC. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 11:36:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26757 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [199.184.181.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26744 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from right.PCS (right.pcs. [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA25157; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:58:30 -0600 (CST) Received: (jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id TAA26518; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:33:51 GMT Message-Id: <199611191933.TAA26518@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:33:50 -0600 From: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Nov 19, 1996 11:14:09 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > I'm aware that people will want to scream, but I _do_ believe that we > > should take some steps towards incorporating perl in the base system, > > as we have done (successfully, and IMHO very usefully) with Tcl. > > [ ... ] > > > - a contrib-ready Perl, at release quality. ie., not the 'patch de jour' > > but the equivalent of a -STABLE version. > > > > - an undertaking from several to keep an eye on Perl development, and > > update the in-contrib Perl as appropriate. > > This is the rub. PERL is not stable over the release cycle period for > FreeBSD. People are *always* complaining "why don't you upgrade your > PERL?", even when it it well known that an upgrade frequently requires > updating all of the PERL-dependent scripts to the new syntax, since > the syntax is not sufficiently stable. I take exception to this. The only syntax changes were from perl4 -> perl5, and were extremely minor. (actually syntax cleanup, to be pedantic). There haven't been any syntax changes internal to the p5 releases, unless you count the addition of new features. Also, the "official" release version is still 5.003, nevermind that the development version of _08 is coming out this week or the next. -- Jonathan > At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). Really? Then, are my lithium batteries pressurized, or are they bound in a molecule that changes their properties? (eh, physics was not my strong suit) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 11:45:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA27322 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA27314 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:45:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA01913 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:45:36 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id UAA22152 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:45:02 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.2/keltia-uucp-2.9) id UAA29062; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:06:45 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:06:45 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50.05 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2686 In-Reply-To: <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Nov 19, 1996 12:02:02 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Michael Smith: > - a contrib-ready Perl, at release quality. ie., not the 'patch de jour' > but the equivalent of a -STABLE version. Perl 5.004 is rounding the corner. 5.003_08 just came out and 5.003_09 will be 5.004-candidate. Many thinks are broken (even if people don't tumble often on them) and 5.004 should be stable. > - an undertaking from several to keep an eye on Perl development, and > update the in-contrib Perl as appropriate. I'm keeping eyes on main Perl dev. thru perl5-porters as probably others do. As for modules, we have a Perl5-port guru :-) BTW OpenBSD has already done the integration into a bmake-based tree so we could look at how they've done it. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #28: Sun Nov 10 13:37:41 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 11:56:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA27749 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from coconut.blueberry.co.uk ([194.70.52.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA27742 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by coconut.blueberry.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) id TAA25529; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:49:10 GMT Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:49:10 +0000 From: nik@blueberry.co.uk (Nik Clayton) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Nov 19, 1996 11:14:09 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > This is the rub. PERL is not stable over the release cycle period for > FreeBSD. People are *always* complaining "why don't you upgrade your > PERL?", even when it it well known that an upgrade frequently requires > updating all of the PERL-dependent scripts to the new syntax, since > the syntax is not sufficiently stable. As someone who spends a reasonable amount of the working day coding in Perl, I don't think this is a particularly valid point, particularly in comparison to the moving target that is Tcl/Tk. In the past four years Perl 4.036 (/usr/bin/perl on 2.1.5 and below) has been the standard, rock-solid version on the 4.branch, while 5.0 was the new, OO biased version. Even given that, the changes from 5.000 to 5.003 have been bug fixes, with very few alterations to syntax at all. There is an issue moving from 4.036 to 5.x, as the syntax did change in a few places between the two -- not counting the option of a new OOish syntax, which wouldn't break older scripts anyway. Most obviously where '@' in strings suddenly needed to backslash-escaped. This broke a lot of things that dealt with e-mail addresses. But in the past 2 years (and 2 years ago I was running FreeBSD 2.0 with Perl 5.mumble) I haven't seen any clean Perl code that would run on 5.000 but wouldn't run on 5.003. Not much in the way of hard facts there, but this seems to be an opinion only thread anyway. Having said that, I don't think Perl should be moved to the base system anyway (assuming that base system is whatever you get when you install bin.xx for the first time). But this is for the same reason I don't particularly want tcl in there either -- they're extensions to the system -- I have no objections to seeing a new dist category, something like 'cool-things-we-think-you'll-enjoy', but I tend to prefer to build these things myself. Of course, if that is what we're talking about then you can ignore that last paragraph :-) N -- --+=[ Blueberry Hill Blueberry New Media ]=+-- --+=[ http://www.blueberry.co.uk/ 1/9 Chelsea Harbour Design Centre, ]=+-- --+=[ WebMaster@blueberry.co.uk London, England, SW10 0XE ]=+-- --+=[ Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket? ]ENTP From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 12:10:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA28966 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from originat.demon.co.uk (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA28931 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from paul@localhost) by originat.demon.co.uk (8.8.2/8.6.9) id UAA01460; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:10:18 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199611192010.UAA01460@originat.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:10:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611191933.TAA26518@right.PCS> from "Jonathan Lemon" at Nov 19, 96 01:33:50 pm Reply-to: paul@netcraft.co.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jonathan Lemon who said > > > This is the rub. PERL is not stable over the release cycle period for > > FreeBSD. People are *always* complaining "why don't you upgrade your > > PERL?", even when it it well known that an upgrade frequently requires > > updating all of the PERL-dependent scripts to the new syntax, since > > the syntax is not sufficiently stable. > > I take exception to this. The only syntax changes were from perl4 -> perl5, > and were extremely minor. (actually syntax cleanup, to be pedantic). There > haven't been any syntax changes internal to the p5 releases, unless you count > the addition of new features. The converse is infact generally true. You can run perl4 scripts under perl5 with very minor changes. Most perl5 scripts have no chance of being back-ported to perl4. Things have changed a lot. Unless you're writing very basic scripts you're going to be using all the new features like dereferencing, new C-like function syntax, prototypes (well actually that's a 5.003 thing) and objects. It's almost certainly the case that you're going to be making heavy use of modules too. Really, perl4 is a dead language. -- Paul Richards, Originative Solutions Ltd. Internet: paul@netcraft.co.uk, http://www.netcraft.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1225 447500 (work) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 12:31:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA02298 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02270 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:30:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vPwmV-0000C7-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:28:31 -0700 To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:14:09 MST." <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:28:31 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: : At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). At STP (20 C, 1 atmosphere), Lithium is a whitish metal solid. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 12:33:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA02620 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:33:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02599 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vPwpe-0000Ca-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:31:46 -0700 To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:33:50 CST." <199611191933.TAA26518@right.PCS> References: <199611191933.TAA26518@right.PCS> <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:31:46 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199611191933.TAA26518@right.PCS> Jonathan Lemon writes: : > At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). : : Really? Then, are my lithium batteries pressurized, or are they bound in a : molecule that changes their properties? (eh, physics was not my strong suit) Lithium batteries are made of a Lithium compound, which is likely disolved in ion form in some liquid or pseduo liquid to allow for the chemical reaction (Ion exchange) that gives them their power. This is glossing over a lot of details... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 12:36:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03103 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.skipstone.com (root@GATEWAY.SKIPSTONE.COM [198.214.10.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03092 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from bugs.skipstone.com (bugs.skipstone.com [204.69.236.2]) by gateway.skipstone.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08936; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:35:49 -0600 Received: from [204.69.236.50] (hotapplepie.skipstone.com [204.69.236.50]) by bugs.skipstone.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18641; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:35:57 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611191931.NAA05204@brasil.moneng.mei.com> References: <199611191838.TAA00231@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Nov 19, 96 07:38:36 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:35:55 -0600 To: Joe Greco From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >"Behind the times" mean anything to ya? :-) > >Now I know why I tell folks to buy from WC. I suggest that you look at the WC catalog before you jump to conclusions. Their catalog does not always reflect the latest release either. (Even after they have shipped it) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 12:42:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04200 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04164 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA02014 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:42:06 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id VAA22692 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:41:42 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.2/keltia-uucp-2.9) id VAA07155; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:07:59 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:07:59 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50.05 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2686 In-Reply-To: <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Nov 19, 1996 11:14:09 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > FreeBSD. People are *always* complaining "why don't you upgrade your > PERL?", even when it it well known that an upgrade frequently requires > updating all of the PERL-dependent scripts to the new syntax, since > the syntax is not sufficiently stable. Between Perl4 and Perl5, the changes are documented in perltrap. Between 5.x there have been very few syntaxic changes. You won't notice many changes between 5.003 and 5.004 in that respect. > For FreeBSD, the biggest problem is PERL dependent ports and MajorDomo; > PERL upgrades have been delayed for MajorDomo more than once in the > past. Majordomo has been Perl5 compatible as of 1.93. 1.94 runs fine under it. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #28: Sun Nov 10 13:37:41 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 13:04:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05799 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA05763 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA05480; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:02:48 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611192102.PAA05480@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:02:47 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 19, 96 02:35:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >"Behind the times" mean anything to ya? :-) > > > >Now I know why I tell folks to buy from WC. > > I suggest that you look at the WC catalog before you jump to conclusions. > Their catalog does not always reflect the latest release either. (Even > after they have shipped it) No, but usually WC ships you the latest release. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 13:07:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05961 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from midway.evtech.com (midway.evtech.com [204.96.163.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA05945 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from tahiti.evtech.com (tahiti.evtech.com [192.35.179.19]) by midway.evtech.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20883; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:06:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from borneo.evtech.com (borneo.evtech.com [192.35.179.29]) by tahiti.evtech.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA02602; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:06:56 -0600 Message-Id: <199611192106.PAA02602@tahiti.evtech.com> To: Bill Sommerfeld cc: tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kernel calls - args in registers In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:39:45 EDT." <199610231240.MAA05218@orchard.medford.ma.us> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:06:53 -0600 From: Travis Hassloch x231 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610231240.MAA05218@orchard.medford.ma.us> you write: > of course, if you're going to pass syscall arguments in registers (and > do the syscall.c-equivalent in hand-massaged assembler) you might find > that you'll get a bigger *system* performance gain (at least on "CISC" > systems like the i386 and m68k) by using a more RISC-like calling > convention with the first few arguments in registers.. I've been looking at this a bit lately, and noticed that, as you point out, gcc doesn't use registers on the x86 by default (IMHO it should have, at least if you can configure that for free Unixes -- it's not like we had a historical baggage commercial compiler to be call-level compatible with). One thing I thought might make a worthwhile gain is to make all intrakernel calls use registers -- and if possible, all kernel calls. Obviously this would require rewriting a bit of the system call dispatch code. The next obvious step would be to change the system call structure so that copying a stack around wasn't necessary on most system calls. I'm thinking it may screw up LKMs, possibly other things; someone a bit more experienced could probably run through the implications better than I. CC'ed to tech-kern and hackers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 13:14:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06385 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:14:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06379 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA09524; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:00:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611192100.OAA09524@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:00:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Ollivier Robert" at Nov 19, 96 09:07:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > FreeBSD. People are *always* complaining "why don't you upgrade your > > PERL?", even when it it well known that an upgrade frequently requires > > updating all of the PERL-dependent scripts to the new syntax, since > > the syntax is not sufficiently stable. > > Between Perl4 and Perl5, the changes are documented in perltrap. Between > 5.x there have been very few syntaxic changes. You won't notice many > changes between 5.003 and 5.004 in that respect. I realize this. However, it requires going over your existing PERL code to make sure it doesn't break from the syntactical changes. The problem is the dependencies for the existing code, and that fact that if the maintainers of the code haven't "upgraded", then we become promary support for the "upgraded" scripts. This would have been less of a problem in the 5.x changeover if the PERL distribution had a tool to upgrade scripts over the syntactic changes. > > For FreeBSD, the biggest problem is PERL dependent ports and MajorDomo; > > PERL upgrades have been delayed for MajorDomo more than once in the > > past. > > Majordomo has been Perl5 compatible as of 1.93. 1.94 runs fine under it. What was the delay between when people started saying we should upgrade to PERL 5.x and the release of MajorDomo 1.93? The problem, again, is that the change cycle on PERL has historically been too short to base a FreeBSD release on a PERL release... PERL is moving faster than FreeBSD, in other words. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 13:15:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06452 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06444 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:15:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA09538; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:01:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611192101.OAA09538@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:01:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Warner Losh" at Nov 19, 96 01:28:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: > : At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). > > At STP (20 C, 1 atmosphere), Lithium is a whitish metal solid. LiO2 or Li2? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 13:19:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06758 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:19:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06740 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vPxYy-0000IM-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:18:36 -0700 To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:01:19 MST." <199611192101.OAA09538@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199611192101.OAA09538@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:18:36 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199611192101.OAA09538@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: : > At STP (20 C, 1 atmosphere), Lithium is a whitish metal solid. : : LiO2 or Li2? Li. Lithium doesn't form a molecule like Hydrogen unless heated to high temperatures. Lithiums melting point is around 30C and its boiling point is around 40C or 50C. It isn't until it boils off that you get Li2, a gas. I don't have my CRC handy to look up the actual values here, but this is what I recall from my college Chemestry labs. Li is violently reactive when exposed to anything, which is what makes Li+ Ion batteries so powerful (and so dangerous). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 13:31:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07591 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07585 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22201; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:30:07 -0700 (MST) From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199611192130.OAA22201@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:30:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 19, 96 02:35:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Richard Wackerbarth said: > > >"Behind the times" mean anything to ya? :-) > > > >Now I know why I tell folks to buy from WC. > > I suggest that you look at the WC catalog before you jump to conclusions. > Their catalog does not always reflect the latest release either. (Even > after they have shipped it) Yes, the 2.1.5R CD arrived with a catalog listing only the 2.1R disc! :> --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 13:59:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09442 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from aries.bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09436 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by aries.bb.cc.wa.us (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA00445 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:53:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:53:18 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Ipx to ip routing In-Reply-To: <199611152126.NAA26454@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I work at a local community college. We have two FreeBSD boxes running all of the internet services. My question is: Does Freebsd support ipx to ip routing. I know that BSDi does. (And they want $6,000 for their system because of it.) Do we have any plans for implementing it? We need it to solve two problems. number one, we are running out of ip addresses on campus. We want to eliminate most of them and make them use ipx routed through a FBSD box to communicate through the internet. And we want to eliminate the need for so many ip addresses so that we can get rid of all the ip address conflicts that we can't seem to trace down. Any one have a good method of finding an ip address conflict? Thanks in advance Chris Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Technician I (509)-766-8873 Big Bend Community College Internet Instructor Death is life's way of telling you you're fired. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 14:10:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10205 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10183 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA05968; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:07:41 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611192207.QAA05968@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Announce: Alternative Mail Archive To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:07:41 -0600 (CST) Cc: mark@quickweb.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John Fieber" at Nov 19, 96 00:09:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > First, browsing, as hypermail sets it up, is of very limited > utility for finding anything in list archives of FreeBSD scale > (currently about 300 megabytes and growing fast). Browsing is > much better suited as a second step after an initial search has > identified a few key messages. Using those keys, it is then > useful to retrieve the thread context. Being able to re-sort a > chunk of message by date, subject, author is useful, but only if > the searcher has control over what is in the chunk. Hypermail > just blindly chops things up into time segments and the chunk > composition is static. The proper place for chunk sorting is on > a set of retrieved messages. That is probably true, but (at least when I am searching the lists) I usually have some idea what time frame I am interested in. I am usually looking to quote something back at somebody, etc. It is very frustrating to type in a bunch of terms and still have it hit a hundred messages, half of which are from 1995. Often I would much rather just see a thread of messages, and look through them. A lengthy list, of course, is unmanageable and unwieldy, I was looking through the gated-people lists the other evening and swearing that it took five to ten seconds every time I read a message and then hit "Back" to return to the zillions of messages long list. > The problem is that good IR systems are proprietary, and free IR > systems are crap. Of course, I've spent quite a lot of time > reading and writing about IR theory, so I'm pretty cynical about > the whole field. (Since this is the direction of my Ph.D. > research, maybe it isn't such a good thing?) Write a good free IR system? :-) In general I am frustrated with the current search engine and often I would rather go to the raw list archives and search backwards for a keyword or two, because that way at least I am assured of getting the date relevance I usually desire. The size of the current list archives are rather hefty... 19954856 Nov 19 13:32 freebsd-bugs 15828458 Nov 4 14:26 freebsd-commit 34684292 Nov 19 11:47 freebsd-current 76949942 Nov 19 13:31 freebsd-hackers 6535669 Nov 19 11:25 freebsd-isp 14245498 Nov 19 12:50 freebsd-ports 72657153 Nov 19 13:07 freebsd-questions That is a LOT of data to look through, and dates back to early 1995.. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 14:11:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10304 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10287 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07216 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:10:42 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA01808; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:20:36 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199611192020.VAA01808@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:20:36 +0100 (MET) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 19, 96 11:14:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote... > > A point to consider : I _loathe_ Perl. Reading it gives me a > > headache, and I would sooner snort powdered lithium than program in > > it. Understand that I think Perl is relevant for what it is, and not > > what I feel about it. > > At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). > > > Terry Lambert Interesting. Very soft greyish metal the last time I saw it... Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 14:22:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10983 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:22:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10957 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA08158; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:21:31 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA10497; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:21:30 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id XAA10010; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:07:43 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611192207.XAA10010@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Creating a device driv., Pb with outb, outw... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:07:43 +0100 (MET) Cc: Emmanuel.Duros@sophia.inria.fr Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199611191827.TAA18620@chouette.inria.fr> from Emmanuel Duros at "Nov 19, 96 07:27:49 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Emmanuel Duros wrote: > #include > > void main(void){ > > outb( 0x300, 1 ); > } > > I always get a BUS ERROR. I also tried on the parallel port (0x378) > without success. > > Any comments on this, why does this happen ? Because user programs are normally not allowed to fiddle with the hardware directly; that's the kernel's domain. You can circumvent this restriction by keeping a descriptor on the /dev/io ``security hole'' open. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 14:45:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12149 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:45:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12137 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:45:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA09730; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:30:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611192230.PAA09730@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Kernel calls - args in registers To: travis@EvTech.com (Travis Hassloch x231) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:30:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: sommerfeld@orchard.medford.ma.us, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611192106.PAA02602@tahiti.evtech.com> from "Travis Hassloch x231" at Nov 19, 96 03:06:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > of course, if you're going to pass syscall arguments in registers (and > > do the syscall.c-equivalent in hand-massaged assembler) you might find > > that you'll get a bigger *system* performance gain (at least on "CISC" > > systems like the i386 and m68k) by using a more RISC-like calling > > convention with the first few arguments in registers.. > > I've been looking at this a bit lately, and noticed that, as you > point out, gcc doesn't use registers on the x86 by default (IMHO it should > have, at least if you can configure that for free Unixes -- it's not like we > had a historical baggage commercial compiler to be call-level compatible > with). What about processor emulation environments? For instance, running my NetScape binaries on an Alpha using a processor emulator that converts traps to native kernel calls? I think that in this situation, calling in registers would complicate (and in some cases, because of alignment, make nearly impossible) such cross-processor ABI emulation. I find it extremely unlikely that NetScape will be porting to BSD or Linux on a PowerMAC (for example) any time soon, and this ABI/processor hybridization is about the only way you will be able to use commercial apps on that platform. FWIW: I agree on intra-kernel calling; I'd go so far as to suggest using callee-pop conventions, in fact. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 15:02:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA13314 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from vdp01.vailsystems.com (root@vdp01.vailsystems.com [207.152.98.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13306 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:02:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from crocodile.vale.com (crocodile [204.117.217.147]) by vdp01.vailsystems.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA15055; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:02:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from jaguar (jaguar.vale.com [204.117.217.146]) by crocodile.vale.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA08503; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:02:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32923C92.3608@vailsys.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:02:42 -0600 From: Hal Snyder Reply-To: hal@vailsys.com Organization: Vail Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chris Coleman wrote: > I work at a local community college. We have two FreeBSD boxes running > all of the internet services. > > My question is: Does Freebsd support ipx to ip routing. I know that BSDi > does. (And they want $6,000 for their system because of it.) > > Do we have any plans for implementing it? > > We need it to solve two problems. number one, we are running out of ip > addresses on campus. We want to eliminate most of them and make them use > ipx routed through a FBSD box to communicate through the internet. Huh? Where do you want your IPX traffic to go once it hits the router? > And we want to eliminate the need for so many ip addresses so that we > can get rid of all the ip address conflicts that we can't seem to trace > down. Why not just set up one or more proxy hosts between your local net and the Internet? It's a common way of a)conserving Internet addresses and b) protecting a LAN from the Internet. Your Internet IP addresses, which are in short supply, go on the perimeter net where you will only have a handful of interfaces. Then use the RFC 1918 addresses for the rest of your network. I like to use the 192.168.x.x addresses, using one Class C per segment. > Any one have a good method of finding an ip address conflict? Use arpwatch and/or tcpdump in arp mode. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 15:11:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA13978 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13967 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:10:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id JAA03370; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:38:51 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611192308.JAA03370@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611191933.TAA26518@right.PCS> from Jonathan Lemon at "Nov 19, 96 01:33:50 pm" To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:38:50 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan Lemon stands accused of saying: > > I take exception to this. The only syntax changes were from perl4 -> perl5, > and were extremely minor. (actually syntax cleanup, to be pedantic). There > haven't been any syntax changes internal to the p5 releases, unless you count > the addition of new features. Fine. You realise by standing up and saying something about it you get nominated as a maintainer? 8) > Also, the "official" release version is still 5.003, nevermind that the > development version of _08 is coming out this week or the next. Ok; does this mean that new major release is imminent? What sort of 'product life' would you anticipate the the current 'stable' version has left? > > At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). > > Really? Then, are my lithium batteries pressurized, or are they > bound in a molecule that changes their properties? (eh, physics was > not my strong suit) Lithium batteries use salts of lithium. Lithium is not useful as a metal other than as fantasy material for teenage chemistry students who aren't happy with the curriculum's shockingly poor explosives content. (Yes, the ex-keeper of the rec.pyrotechnics FAQ lives in Adelaide, and I know him and several of his lunatic friends 8) Terry; I'd consider pressurising my head before snorting perhaps if you like; the net result would _still_ be comparable to my reaction to Perl 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 15:22:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA14666 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu (delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu [128.135.5.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14657 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:22:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from bio-5.bsd.uchicago.edu (bio-5.bsd.uchicago.edu [128.135.75.14]) by delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3/BSD-4.0) with SMTP id RAA11042; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:21:26 -0600 (CST) Received: by bio-5.bsd.uchicago.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA02993; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:21:17 +0600 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:21:17 +0600 Message-Id: <9611192321.AA02993@bio-5.bsd.uchicago.edu> To: terry@lambert.org Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611192100.OAA09524@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:00:19 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! From: Tim Pierce Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Terry Lambert > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:00:19 -0700 (MST) > > The problem, again, is that the change cycle on PERL has historically > been too short to base a FreeBSD release on a PERL release... PERL > is moving faster than FreeBSD, in other words. I don't believe this is the case, either. In the last two years, Perl has gone from 5.000 to almost 5.004, the same time frame in which FreeBSD has gone from pre-2.0 almost to 2.2-RELEASE. Do you really find the differences between Perl 5.000 and 5.004 to be *more* significant than those between FreeBSD 2.0 and 2.2-RELEASE? I don't get that impression; if anything, FreeBSD seems to be outstripping Perl in speed of development. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 16:11:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA17913 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from aries.bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17908 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by aries.bb.cc.wa.us (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01253; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:05:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:05:21 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Hal Snyder cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing(translation) In-Reply-To: <32923C92.3608@vailsys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Hal Snyder wrote: > > My question is: Does Freebsd support ipx to ip routing. I know that BSDi > > does. (And they want $6,000 for their system because of it.) oops, I really meant ipx to ip TRANSLATION. I want to only have one host using a ip address and all the others using ipx (or somthing similar) to talk to the internet. Each computer would be mapped to by the MAC address on the ethernet card. All communications with the internet would go through FBSD host. > > Do we have any plans for implementing it? BSDI and the Novell have it. There are a few commercial places that have it also. But Since we already use Freebsd, I was hoping a cool solution. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 16:23:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA18407 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:23:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18402 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA03866; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:52:04 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611200022.KAA03866@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Kernel calls - args in registers In-Reply-To: <199611192106.PAA02602@tahiti.evtech.com> from Travis Hassloch x231 at "Nov 19, 96 03:06:53 pm" To: travis@EvTech.com (Travis Hassloch x231) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:52:03 +1030 (CST) Cc: sommerfeld@orchard.medford.ma.us, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Travis Hassloch x231 stands accused of saying: > > One thing I thought might make a worthwhile gain is to make all > intrakernel calls use registers -- and if possible, all kernel calls. I think Bruce will have opinions here, but IMHO using registers for arg passing isn't much of a win, especially on the x86 where there are so few of them. Register args win when the callee doesn't have to use the registers the args are in until they're needed. On the x86, it's more likely that the callee will need the registers and thus have to save the args somewhere else (like on the stack...), and thus lose worse. Another issue is stack unwinding; it's a real pain in the backside to unwind a stack that includes calls to functions taking register args; either the function saves the register args on the stack before the return address before calling out the first time, or you live with not being able to get the value of the arguments. Either way, I don't think that the improvements would be significant enough to be worth the effort. YMMV, especially on the 68K and some RISC targets where there are enough registers to make this worthwhile. > Obviously this would require rewriting a bit of the system call > dispatch code. The next obvious step would be to change the > system call structure so that copying a stack around wasn't necessary > on most system calls. Um, I don't actually think that the stack is 'copied around' in the first place, and you'd still have to keep most of it because not all your syscall args are going to fit in your registers. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 16:24:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA18459 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:24:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18438 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA03878; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:53:41 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611200023.KAA03878@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: from Ollivier Robert at "Nov 19, 96 08:06:45 pm" To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:53:40 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert stands accused of saying: > > Perl 5.004 is rounding the corner. 5.003_08 just came out and 5.003_09 will > be 5.004-candidate. > > Many thinks are broken (even if people don't tumble often on them) and > 5.004 should be stable. Ok. I am still waiting for a hand up from someone who has a contrib-ready perl5. > BTW OpenBSD has already done the integration into a bmake-based tree so we > could look at how they've done it. Not to diss the OBSD guys, but the contrib technique is a bit different, and I think we will want to do it like that. > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 16:34:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA18863 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:34:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18857 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA03940; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:03:30 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611200033.LAA03940@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: split speed sio port? In-Reply-To: <199611191253.MAA03409@veda.is> from Adam David at "Nov 19, 96 12:53:40 pm" To: adam@veda.is (Adam David) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:03:29 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, davidn@blaze.net.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Adam David stands accused of saying: > > > > Use the spiffo 'divert socket' stuff and write a management program that > > tracks how much data it has forwarded for each of the classes in a given > > period. This gives you total flexibility, and saves us from trying to > > second-guess harebrained ideas 8) > > This is all very well, but when upstream is not (yet?) willing to implement > such measures themselves and will not trust software that is located outside > of their direct control, one has to make do with what is available. Huh? How does this affect anything? Or are you saying that "upstream" insists that you use an asymmetrical link? > Of course, a proven product might catch their interest in terms of > suitability. Hey, go for it 8) > Adam David -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 16:57:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA20032 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20013 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00994; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:56:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:56:04 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Joe Greco cc: mark@quickweb.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Announce: Alternative Mail Archive In-Reply-To: <199611192207.QAA05968@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > That is probably true, but (at least when I am searching the lists) > I usually have some idea what time frame I am interested in. I am > usually looking to quote something back at somebody, etc. It is > very frustrating to type in a bunch of terms and still have it hit > a hundred messages, half of which are from 1995. Precicely, and there is no reason why your time frame shouldn't be part of the query along with the terms. The more dimensions you can describe, the more accurate the retrieved set will be. The problem with hypermail is the timeframes are pre-set, and not necessairly in a very useful fashion. The fact that the current arcihves on www.freebsd.org do not allow retrieval by date is, in my mind, a catastrophic failing. > Write a good free IR system? :-) Its hard! IR is theoretically bankrupt. What to do? Go flip through the proceedings and papers from TREC and you will see. People are spending lots of time and money and the improvements they achieve are miniscule. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 16:58:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA20133 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mole.mole.org (marmot.mole.org [204.216.57.191]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20122 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by mole.mole.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA04452; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:57:38 GMT Received: from meerkat.mole.org(206.197.192.110) by mole.mole.org via smap (V1.3) id sma004450; Wed Nov 20 00:57:26 1996 Received: (from mrm@localhost) by meerkat.mole.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA01010; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:56:33 -0800 From: "M.R.Murphy" Message-Id: <199611200056.QAA01010@meerkat.mole.org> To: jlemon@americantv.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Cc: ejs@bfd.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). Not that it matters wrt perl, but at STP, lithium is a solid. A metallic solid. A silvery white metallic solid. The MP at SP is 453.69K. Your friendly chemist, -- Mike Murphy mrm@Mole.ORG +1 619 598 5874 Better is the enemy of Good From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 17:03:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA20499 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:03:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.6.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20493 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:03:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from roberte@localhost) by ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07460; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 01:58:17 +0100 (MET) From: Robert Eckardt Message-Id: <199611200058.BAA07460@ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Subject: Lithium [was: Re: Who needs Perl? We do!] In-Reply-To: <199611192101.OAA09538@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "19. Nov. 96 13:58:55" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 01:58:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: imp@village.org, terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: > > : At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). > > > > At STP (20 C, 1 atmosphere), Lithium is a whitish metal solid. > > LiO2 or Li2? Just to clarify: 6 7 Li and Li as well as LiH, Li O and Li O are solid at STP. 3 3 2 2 2 What were you thinking of ? Robert -- Robert Eckardt \\ FreeBSD -- solutions for a large universe.(tm) RobertE@MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de \\ What do you want to boot tomorrow ?(tm) http://WWW.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de/~roberte For PGP-key finger roberte@gluon.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 17:15:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA21186 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA21172; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:15:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA19552; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (proff@localhost) by suburbia.net (8.7.4/Proff-950810) id MAA12392; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:13:33 +1100 From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199611200113.MAA12392@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: Serious BIND resolver problem. (fwd) To: brian@mail.vividnet.com (Brian Wang) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:13:33 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Wang" at Nov 19, 96 03:24:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, S(pork) wrote: > > > >From your friendly neighborhood paranoia victim comes yet another loaded > > question... > > > > I got this little advisory (thankfully without an exploit) today, and it's > > got me all worried. It's a problem in the whole gethostbyname call that > > allows (supposedly) local and remote users to gain root access using a > > variety of programs that rely on the gethostbyname call. So I downloaded > > BIND-4.9.3-REL which fixes all of this; and then I read the README in the > > BSD directory, got thoroughly confused, and posted my root password to > > #hack on irc. (kidding). Now this does not appear to be a simple feat > > (hence my posting to -questions and -security; security people can look at > > it and laugh, and questions can tell me all about "diff-ing my source > > tree" and "manually updating includes (which you may or may not have to > > do)." So my question is this; could anyone who's already updated this > > give me some advice or some pointers to this procedure?? The site > > carrying 4.9.3-REL is over at: ftp.vix.com/pub/bind/release > > > > Thanks All, > > > > Charles > > Charles, > > I think 4.9.5-REL over at ftp.vix.com/pub/bind/release/4.9.5 is > what you are looking for, and as suggested by the advisory. I just > updated our 2 name servers this morning, and all I did is make, and then > make install. > > Sincerely, > > Brian > it isn't the name servers you need to upgrade, it is the resolver libraries. -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ |Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | |proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | |proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | C7F81C2AA32D7D4E4D360A2ED2098E0D | +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 17:34:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA22661 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA22650 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:34:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com ([204.244.213.33]) by misery.sdf.com with SMTP id <963-252>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:58:03 -0800 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:57:49 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Chris Coleman cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Chris Coleman wrote: > I work at a local community college. We have two FreeBSD boxes running > all of the internet services. > > My question is: Does Freebsd support ipx to ip routing. I know that BSDi > does. (And they want $6,000 for their system because of it.) > > Do we have any plans for implementing it? You can't route between IP and IPX. They are incompatible. You can can however tunnel IPX across an IP network. > We need it to solve two problems. number one, we are running out of ip > addresses on campus. We want to eliminate most of them and make them use > ipx routed through a FBSD box to communicate through the internet. This would involve a proxy-type service (ex. Catapult for NT; see ftp.microsoft.com). > And we want to eliminate the need for so many ip addresses so that we > can get rid of all the ip address conflicts that we can't seem to trace > down. > > Any one have a good method of finding an ip address conflict? Force people to use DHCP. It isn't perfect, but better than letting a bunch of newbies configure their own systems. A proxy like cached or squid, which both work under FreeBSD could also solve your address shortage problem. The entire 10.x.x.x block has been reserved for non-connected sites, and these addresses could be given to given to internal campus machines. Proxy servers like cached can also reduce Internet traffic, and speed access to common pages. > Thanks in advance > > Chris Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us) > Computer Support Technician I (509)-766-8873 > Big Bend Community College Internet Instructor > Death is life's way of telling you you're fired. > > Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 17:42:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23098 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:42:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23089 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA10034; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:28:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611200128.SAA10034@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:28:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611192020.VAA01808@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Nov 19, 96 09:20:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > A point to consider : I _loathe_ Perl. Reading it gives me a > > > headache, and I would sooner snort powdered lithium than program in > > > it. Understand that I think Perl is relevant for what it is, and not > > > what I feel about it. > > > > At STP, Lithium is a gas. 8-). > > Interesting. Very soft greyish metal the last time I saw it... If you don't want the boring details, or you want to figure the joke out for yourself, don't read the rest of this message. It probably belongs on -chat anyway. If you are a great fan of PERL and don't want to be annoyed, well, you've been warned. 8-). This was a 3-level English pun based on a single initial English pun used to back-handedly reference PERL. (1) At STP, diatomic Lithium the metal is a solid (someone claimed all diatomic metals, except Mercury, are solid at STP; Hydrogen isn't. 8-)). (2) This forces a reinterpretation of "is a gas" as a colloquialism instead of a direct interpretation. The use of the colloquialism is a bit archaic (tantamount to using the word "groovy", I suppose); however, there is a Rolling Stones song "Jumpin' Jack Flash", in which they use it "Jumpin' Jack Flash, it's a gas, gas, gas...", and it was The Clue in a Whoopie Goldberg movie, titled after the song. (3) How can Lithium be "a gas" in the colloquial sense? Lithium salts are used psychopharmacologically in the moderation of N-dopamine uptake. A chronically mentally ill person with Schitzophrenia is most likely suffering from: (1) a genetic predisposition to having fewer than is considered normal N-dopamine receptors, or (2) smaller than is considered normal N-dopamine production, or (3) has a chemical imbalance interfering with N-dopamine uptake. Item (3) can be environmental poisoning -- for instance, Aspartame (Nutrasweet) bonds to N-dopamine receptors. Do not drink most diet sodas if you are borderline Schitzophrenic, or change the amount you drink if you are already on medication. In a "normal" person, Lithium use would result in reduced brain function. So we see that if he "would sooner snort powdered lithium", he is probably referring to it's psychotropic properties... implyimg that, though Lithium reduces brain function, it does not reduce it so much as programming in PERL might... hence the second order pun. You can send fan-mail to my regular address. 8-P. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 17:47:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23260 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from white.dogwood.com (dave@white.dogwood.com [140.174.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23248 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dave@localhost) by white.dogwood.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA10062 ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:47:17 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Cornejo Message-Id: <199611200147.RAA10062@white.dogwood.com> Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD In-Reply-To: <199611191838.TAA00231@yedi.iaf.nl> from Wilko Bulte at "Nov 19, 96 07:38:36 pm" To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:47:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte wrote: > I just today got a catalog in my PObox of Pacific HighTech CDROM. > A bit to my surprise it has a 'Turbo FreeBSD' CDROM listed on it's > cover. I contains 2.1.5R and a 2.2 SNAP (960801? it's very > fine print). IMO, PHT doesn't do nearly the quality job that Walnut Creek does on their disks. Their general pricing reflects this. BSDisc (sp?) also supplies FreeBSD along with NetBSD on a CD. I have a fairly old copy of this and it's a great archive, but not nearly so nice to install as the genuine WC CDROM CD. I don't know if either PHT or BSDisc supports FreeBSD in any fashion, but this certainly plays into my buying decision. -- Dave Cornejo - Dogwood Media, Fremont, California From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 17:54:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23554 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23549 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA10082; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:40:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611200140.SAA10082@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing(translation) To: chris@bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:40:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: hal@vailsys.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris Coleman" at Nov 19, 96 04:05:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > My question is: Does Freebsd support ipx to ip routing. I know that BSDi > > > does. (And they want $6,000 for their system because of it.) > > oops, I really meant ipx to ip TRANSLATION. I want to only have one host > using a ip address and all the others using ipx (or somthing similar) to > talk to the internet. Each computer would be mapped to by the MAC address > on the ethernet card. All communications with the internet would go > through FBSD host. This is called an "IP Proxy Gateway", and requires both a service agent on the gateway box, and a "WINSOCK.DLL" or "WSOCK32.DLL" on the client machine that knows how to connect to the proxy server over the transport. As a point of general information, the IANA is not responsible for assigning well-known-sockets on IPX (or SPX)... Novell itself is. In order to get an assignment, your application must be NDS (NetWare Directory Services) aware. As another point of interest, the only value in NDS in this case in in service advertisement for the proxy gateway service. To get around this problem (requirement), most third party developers have been using IPX diagnostic broadcasts to locate servers. This is very dirty, and Novell is bound to do something to stop it in the next release or so. > Do we have any plans for implementing it? > > BSDI and the Novell have it. There are a few commercial places that have > it also. But Since we already use Freebsd, I was hoping a cool > solution. You up for writing a winsock? If you were to write a winsock, and you made it use SOCKS to connect to a SOCKS IP Proxy Gateway, your name would be heralded from the tops of towers, in many circles, since it would mean the death of the hated "aliasing". BTW: The company I work for is one of the companies who produces a commercial product like this. There's not a chance in the world that they would publically document their wire protocol. 8-(. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 17:58:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23755 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (daemon@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23747 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id LAA17436 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:57:24 +1000 Received: from pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au by ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.7.5/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id KAA16590 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:12:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au [167.123.24.12]) by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA13736 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:11:20 +1000 Received: by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id AAA04231; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:09:46 GMT Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:09:46 GMT Message-Id: <199611200009.AAA04231@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.7 From: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Subject: Re: Cosmo3D for Linux ?? (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cosmo3D - a nice OpenGL tool. Xref: ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au comp.graphics.api.inventor:3031 comp.graphics.api.opengl:8438 Path: ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!tezcat!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mathworks.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!noc.nyx.net!nyx10.cs.du.edu!not-for-mail From: wdwells@nyx10.cs.du.edu (David "Fuzzy" Wells) Newsgroups: comp.graphics.api.inventor,comp.graphics.api.opengl Subject: Re: Cosmo3D for Linux ?? Date: 17 Nov 1996 22:39:46 -0700 Organization: University of Denver, Math/CS Dept. Lines: 11 Message-ID: <56osr2$3o1@nyx10.cs.du.edu> References: <3289BD6C.2F1C@nlr.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx10.nyx.net >Are there plans to port Cosmo3D to Linux ?? > >I heard that there are no real plans to make Open Inventor available on >Linux but how 'bout Cosmo3D Cosmo 3D for Linux was _very_ quietly announced at SIGGRAPH'96. The person responsible for this is away at the SGI European Dev Conf and should be back Nov 25th. Hopefully, I'll get more info around that time. Fuzzy. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 18:23:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA25063 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:23:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA25058 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:23:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA04728; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:52:53 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611200222.MAA04728@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing(translation) In-Reply-To: from Chris Coleman at "Nov 19, 96 04:05:21 pm" To: chris@bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:52:53 +1030 (CST) Cc: hal@vailsys.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chris Coleman stands accused of saying: > > oops, I really meant ipx to ip TRANSLATION. I want to only have one host > using a ip address and all the others using ipx (or somthing similar) to > talk to the internet. Each computer would be mapped to by the MAC address > on the ethernet card. All communications with the internet would go > through FBSD host. Uh. You fail to understand. Read the previous response wrt. talking IP on a reserved address range on your internal network to a proxy server on your BSD box(es). > Do we have any plans for implementing it? > > BSDI and the Novell have it. There are a few commercial places that have > it also. But Since we already use Freebsd, I was hoping a cool > solution. You are probably thinking of ip-in-ipx, which is totally different from what you were trying to describe. I don't know if anyone is bothering with this, as ipx is in many peoples' minds a dead protocol. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 18:59:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA27992 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:59:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA27985 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:59:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id TAA06625; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.ampr.ab.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07385; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:58:09 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:58:09 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@alive.ampr.ab.ca Reply-To: Marc Slemko To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: sendmail without DNS (was: Re: BoS: Exploit for sendmail smtpd bug (ver. 8.7-8.8.2).) In-Reply-To: <199611190042.BAA03594@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Marc Slemko wrote: > > > I have tried nocanonify, nodns, a service.switch file and perhaps a few > > other things that I can't remember right now, but sendmail still tries to > > do DNS lookups. > > You must do something wrong. I'm using a local nameserver, but as you > can see, it's only used for local lookups: ...and if you are setup to use a remote nameserver then it will try to use that. Therefore, you aren't disabling lookups. A local nameserver can work around the problem though. [...] > > uriah # kill -STOP `cat /var/run/named.pid ` > uriah # (echo "/bind/s/^/#"; echo "w"; echo "q") | ed /etc/host.conf > 105 > #bind > 106 Aha. This is a way of working around it that I had temporarily forgot about. With hosts before bind in /etc/host.conf, and an entry for the local hostname in /etc/hosts, the lookup will be avoided. I forgot about that because there is some reason (can't remember it right now; could be something that was fixed long ago) why I couldn't do that to host.conf on the particular machine because it interfered with something else. However, in the general case for someone getting mail via uucp with a dial on demand type network connection that will solve the problem. Thanks. > uriah # echo "hi you" | mail -s "test mail" marcs@znep.com > uriah # mailq > Mail Queue (1 request) > --Q-ID-- --Size-- -----Q-Time----- ------------Sender/Recipient------------ > BAA03279* (no control file) > > (Well, that's the queue file from my /etc/daily that's just running > right now. Your mail did already go out to the UUCP spool by that > time, no additional delay for nameserver attempts etc.) If you don't have your machine setup so that it thinks it can reach a nameserver outside and there is a route to that nameserver, you won't notice any extra delays. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 19:33:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA29453 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA29446 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:32:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id OAA12365; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:32:53 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:32:51 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: arpresolve errors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Are messages like the one below indicative of mbuf problems, or something else? OS is 2.1.5R, about 30 slip/ppp ports. The given address is the remote address on a CSLIP link. A check through the messages file shows that it only happens to CSLIP links which are gateways to remote nets/subnets. "arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo for 203.x.y.49" After enough of these, the machine usually crashes. Thanks, Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 19:47:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00259 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00246 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:47:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id OAA12387; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:45:13 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:45:11 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Terry Lambert cc: Chris Coleman , hal@vailsys.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing(translation) In-Reply-To: <199611200140.SAA10082@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > You up for writing a winsock? If you were to write a winsock, and > you made it use SOCKS to connect to a SOCKS IP Proxy Gateway, your > name would be heralded from the tops of towers, in many circles, > since it would mean the death of the hated "aliasing". Trumpet Winsock does this, last time I looked, or am I misunderstanding what you are suggesting? Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 19:59:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00754 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00746 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 19:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id VAA06570 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:59:07 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611200359.VAA06570@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing To: root@bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:00:51 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "Chris Coleman" at Nov 19, 96 01:53:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > And we want to eliminate the need for so many ip addresses so that we > can get rid of all the ip address conflicts that we can't seem to trace > down. > > Any one have a good method of finding an ip address conflict? Don't know about the rest, but typically I would suggest that the above suggests a certain lack of networking discipline. :-( Usually IP address conflicts arise when someone has created a network that is too large. I usually become uncomfortable somewhere around 8 or 16 nodes, but then I am a bit paranoid. :-) Ideally, in a school environment, each networked classroom or lab should be on its own subnet, or perhaps several subnets. When the machines are configured, use a labeler to note the machine's IP address on the front of the machine. Preferably devise some logical mechanism for numbering, such as sequential numbering, so that when students pull off the labels, it is still pretty easy to figure it out. If you do that and keep no more than, maybe, 16 machines on a network, then you only have 16 machines to check when a problem arises. If they are all in the same room, this is pretty easy. As far as your address space concerns, in your scenario I would probably consider using 10-net addresses, a proxy Web server, and a NAT device to provide continued access to Internet services. The 10-net thing works really nice even for a large school, because you can use the second octet to designate building, third octet to designate room, and fourth octet to designate machine number. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 20:25:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA02115 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02110 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:25:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.8.3/8.7.3) id EAA19244; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:27:05 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199611200427.EAA19244@veda.is> Subject: Re: split speed sio port? In-Reply-To: <199611200033.LAA03940@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Nov 20, 96 11:03:29 am" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:27:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, davidn@blaze.net.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is all very well, but when upstream is not (yet?) willing to implement > > such measures themselves and will not trust software that is located outside > > of their direct control, one has to make do with what is available. > > Huh? How does this affect anything? Or are you saying that "upstream" > insists that you use an asymmetrical link? It is at present the only way we can transmit more than we receive, without paying through the nose for the ability to receive more. This is because we are required to pay per-kb rate for 25% of available incoming bandwidth even if we only actually use 10%. (I don't think anyone else is happy with this billing arrangement either, except for the biller). > > Of course, a proven product might catch their interest in terms of > > suitability. > > Hey, go for it 8) What was the name of that product again, and does it have a URL? :) Adam From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 21:27:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA04803 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:27:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (sdev.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA04798 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:26:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.2/8.6.9) id QAA11986; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:25:51 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:25:50 +1100 From: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: nik@blueberry.co.uk (Nik Clayton) Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), ejs@bfd.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611190132.MAA25471@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199611191814.LAA09210@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Nik Clayton on Nov 19, 1996 19:49:10 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nik Clayton writes: > Terry Lambert writes: > > This is the rub. PERL is not stable over the release cycle period for > > FreeBSD. People are *always* complaining "why don't you upgrade your > > PERL?", even when it it well known that an upgrade frequently requires > > updating all of the PERL-dependent scripts to the new syntax, since > > the syntax is not sufficiently stable. > > As someone who spends a reasonable amount of the working day coding in > Perl, I don't think this is a particularly valid point, particularly in > comparison to the moving target that is Tcl/Tk. In the past four years > Perl 4.036 (/usr/bin/perl on 2.1.5 and below) has been the standard, > rock-solid version on the 4.branch, while 5.0 was the new, OO biased > version. Yes. I have to think carefully when trying to come up with something works under perl4 as well. :) The comment about perl4 being dead *is* very true it is no longer supported. Let's see.. excluding things provided for perl development, in the -current distribution we have the following scripts: /usr/bin/catman /usr/bin/keyinfo /usr/bin/killall /usr/bin/makewhatis /usr/bin/sgmlfmt /usr/bin/whereis /usr/bin/which /usr/sbin/adduser (and presumably add/rmgroup & removeuser?) /usr/sbin/kbdmap /usr/sbin/spkrtest /usr/sbin/vidfont It is interesting to note that all of these scripts run unchanged under perl5. So the first paragraph quoted above is bogus in any case. > There is an issue moving from 4.036 to 5.x, as the syntax did change > in a few places between the two -- not counting the option of a new > OOish syntax, which wouldn't break older scripts anyway. Most obviously > where '@' in strings suddenly needed to backslash-escaped. This broke > a lot of things that dealt with e-mail addresses. Yes. That is perhaps the most pertinent change, and the one that is most likely to affect anyone who is dependant on perl4. There are others, but most dependancies are fairly obscure. > Not much in the way of hard facts there, but this seems to be an opinion > only thread anyway. I can only confirm the same experience. All I will add is that a decision not to upgrade perl (not necessarily follow the bleeding edge at all!) is just putting off the inevitable with the probability of creating likely dependancies on perl4 that apparently don't currently exist. > Having said that, I don't think Perl should be moved to the base system > anyway (assuming that base system is whatever you get when you install > bin.xx for the first time). But this is for the same reason I don't > particularly want tcl in there either -- they're extensions to the > system -- I have no objections to seeing a new dist category, something > like 'cool-things-we-think-you'll-enjoy', but I tend to prefer to > build these things myself. I could not agree more. Personally, i think perl5 is *too big* to include in the base system anyway, and comes with a large amount of cruft that noone will use unless they develop applications in perl or run a lot of third-party perl scripts (mainly web sites). For the few perl scripts in the system, only the sgml formatter will be the loss (unless something in the install depends upon it? Can't say I've looked). Almost everything else can be easily replaced, either with a shell script or a small C program (which I'll happily volunteer to take care of, if the removal of perl4 from the base dist is the preferred way to go). It appears to me at least that the reluctance to "upgrade" to perl is due to its size. I agree with that. It's just that as a developer who uses perl, having perl4 on the system is a pain in the rear. Yes, sure, I know I won't affect finished scripts that use #!, but (a) it is a waste of space just for a few scripts, (b) for a variety of reasons, I'd prefer to have /usr/bin in my path before /usr/local/bin and while developing scripts, I often need to call perl from the command line (with -d, for example), and (c) nothing perl 4 does can't be done by perl 5. David Nugent, Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 21:30:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05043 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (sdev.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05023 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:30:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.2/8.6.9) id QAA11998; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:28:43 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:28:42 +1100 From: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611192100.OAA09524@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611192100.OAA09524@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Nov 19, 1996 14:00:19 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > The problem, again, is that the change cycle on PERL has historically > been too short to base a FreeBSD release on a PERL release... PERL > is moving faster than FreeBSD, in other words. Which then begs the question - why use perl at all? Yes, I use it quite a bit, but in a base distribution I don't really see it as an appropriate tool. It is certainly easier that programming in, say, bourne shell, and probably significantly faster too. But I still think it is a mistake it being part of the base system. David Nugent, Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 21:31:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05079 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05074 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:31:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA02789 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 06:31:09 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id GAA28242 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 06:30:52 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.2/keltia-uucp-2.9) id AAA11726; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:21:39 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:21:39 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611192100.OAA09524@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2686 In-Reply-To: <199611192100.OAA09524@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Nov 19, 1996 14:00:19 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > I realize this. However, it requires going over your existing PERL > code to make sure it doesn't break from the syntactical changes. 99% of the time, all you need is "perl -cw your.script". > What was the delay between when people started saying we should upgrade > to PERL 5.x and the release of MajorDomo 1.93? I think 1.93 was released before that moment. The first really usable version was 5.001m (5.000 should have never seen the light and 5.001 was still very buggy). > The problem, again, is that the change cycle on PERL has historically > been too short to base a FreeBSD release on a PERL release... PERL > is moving faster than FreeBSD, in other words. Yes, that's why I think it is better to wait for 5.004 and use this one. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #28: Sun Nov 10 13:37:41 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 21:34:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05319 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net ([198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05281 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:34:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) id AAA06966; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:32:38 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199611200532.AAA06966@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Kernel calls - args in registers To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:32:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: travis@EvTech.com, sommerfeld@orchard.medford.ma.us, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611200022.KAA03866@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 20, 96 10:52:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Travis Hassloch x231 stands accused of saying: > > > > One thing I thought might make a worthwhile gain is to make all > > intrakernel calls use registers -- and if possible, all kernel calls. > > I think Bruce will have opinions here, but IMHO using registers for > arg passing isn't much of a win, especially on the x86 where there > are so few of them. > I have an opinion also... I have already recompiled much of the FreeBSD kernel to use the register passing convention. Not really worth it. F.E. our approx 500-530usec fork perf (on a P5-166) doesn't budge almost at all with a change in calling convention... The pgcc compiler or -fomit-frame-pointer makes much more difference (if it works to compile your kernel :-) -- sometimes "advanced options" don't work to compile ours...) (BTW, even that difference is in the 5% or so range.) I think that algorithmic improvements in the kernel are where "it is." It is likely that if we use the register passing conventions in the kernel -- it'll be because there is a worthwhile improvement. I haven't seen a significant one -- YET. If you see one -- let me know!!! John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 21:47:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05819 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com ([207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05814 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA19148; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:44:47 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199611200544.XAA19148@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:44:45 -0600 (CST) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611192100.OAA09524@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Nov 19, 96 02:00:19 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > FreeBSD. People are *always* complaining "why don't you upgrade your > > > PERL?", even when it it well known that an upgrade frequently requires > > > updating all of the PERL-dependent scripts to the new syntax, since > > > the syntax is not sufficiently stable. > > > > Between Perl4 and Perl5, the changes are documented in perltrap. Between > > 5.x there have been very few syntaxic changes. You won't notice many > > changes between 5.003 and 5.004 in that respect. The only major change that hit people was that the @ was no longer escaped by default. > > I realize this. However, it requires going over your existing PERL > code to make sure it doesn't break from the syntactical changes. Takes very little time. Just like taking a C program to C++. > > The problem is the dependencies for the existing code, and that fact > that if the maintainers of the code haven't "upgraded", then we become > promary support for the "upgraded" scripts. Most programs run fine with NO changes. > > This would have been less of a problem in the 5.x changeover if the > PERL distribution had a tool to upgrade scripts over the syntactic > changes. Why don't C++ compliers supply the same thing? I've seen programmers get bit by the same thing. > > > > > For FreeBSD, the biggest problem is PERL dependent ports and MajorDomo; > > > PERL upgrades have been delayed for MajorDomo more than once in the > > > past. > > > > Majordomo has been Perl5 compatible as of 1.93. 1.94 runs fine under it. > > What was the delay between when people started saying we should upgrade > to PERL 5.x and the release of MajorDomo 1.93? > > The problem, again, is that the change cycle on PERL has historically > been too short to base a FreeBSD release on a PERL release... PERL > is moving faster than FreeBSD, in other words. HuH???!!!??? > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 22:00:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA06447 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com ([207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA06430 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 22:00:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA19208; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:58:44 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199611200558.XAA19208@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:58:44 -0600 (CST) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611200023.KAA03878@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Nov 20, 96 10:53:40 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: > Ollivier Robert stands accused of saying: > > > > Perl 5.004 is rounding the corner. 5.003_08 just came out and 5.003_09 will > > be 5.004-candidate. > > > > Many thinks are broken (even if people don't tumble often on them) and > > 5.004 should be stable. > > Ok. I am still waiting for a hand up from someone who has a > contrib-ready perl5. If someone can point me towards the how-to contrib docs I'll do this. Considering I did the perl4 b-make and the commit, I have no problems doing this. > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ Garyy -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Nov 19 23:18:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA10052 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA10047 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:18:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id RAA30936; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:51:32 +1100 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:51:32 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199611200651.RAA30936@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: sommerfeld@orchard.medford.ma.us, travis@EvTech.com Subject: Re: Kernel calls - args in registers Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@NetBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I've been looking at this a bit lately, and noticed that, as you >point out, gcc doesn't use registers on the x86 by default (IMHO it should >have, at least if you can configure that for free Unixes -- it's not like we >had a historical baggage commercial compiler to be call-level compatible >with). Well, gcc didn't officially support passing args in registers until 2.7, and it still doesn't quite work - function calls through a pointer sometimes clobber one of the args. Example: FreeBSD qsort(). My version of FreeBSD works when compiled with -mrtd (callee pops), but I gave up on getting -mregparm=N to work when I hit this problem. -mrtd doesn't make much difference. It gives slightly smaller code and is a few percent faster on 486's (because `ret N' is just as fast as `ret') and a few percent slower on Pentiums (because `ret N' is one nonpairable cylce slower than `ret'). -mregparm=2 gives slightly larger code. I think it won't make much difference to the speed when it works. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 00:25:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14108 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA14089 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:25:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <34987(1)>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:52:26 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177558>; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:52:18 -0800 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: arpresolve errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Nov 96 19:32:51 PST." Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:52:13 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Nov19.215218pst.177558@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message you wr ite: >Are messages like the one below indicative of mbuf problems, or something >else? Generally they're indicative of routing problems. >"arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo for 203.x.y.49" What's the routing table look like for 203.x.y.49? >A check through the messages file >shows that it only happens to CSLIP links which are gateways to remote >nets/subnets. Are you using gated? gated likes to add bogus host routes which confuse the routing table. There's code in 2.2 that handles this. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 00:29:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14422 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:29:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA14415 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:29:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA05470; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:28:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611200828.AAA05470@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Andrew Y Ng cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, "Nuno M. C. H. Monteiro" Subject: Re: Voice Recognition (URGENT) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:54:11 EST." <8mYAnny00YUn1FEEY0@andrew.cmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:28:56 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yeap, what about it . I remember about a year ago approaching the project to import technology to FreeBSD and the folks over there where not interested so what is the status nowdays? Amancio >From The Desk Of Andrew Y Ng : > Hmmm.. Chk out the CMU Speech Lab: > http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/speech/ > > /ayn > > -- > Andrew Y Ng http://andrew.Ngbert.org > Carnegie Mellon University; ECE major, Music minor > campus ph: 412/862-2836; voice mail: 412/268-6700 x30027 > talk: finger ayn@andrew.Ngbert.org for online status. > finger ayn@CMU.EDU for more info, > such as my public key, geekcode, snail address, etc. > > NGBERT! http://www.Ngbert.org > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 00:33:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14737 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:33:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA14730 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:33:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.91]) by Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA15172; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:32:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199611200832.AAA15172@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> X-Authentication-Warning: Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU: Host Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.91] didn't use HELO protocol To: "John S. Dyson" , To:; Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org Cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, jtc@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel calls - args in registers Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:32:23 -0800 From: Jonathan Stone Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >It is likely that if we use the register passing conventions in the >kernel -- it'll be because there is a worthwhile improvement. I haven't >seen a significant one -- YET. If you see one -- let me know!!! The x86 just doesn't have enough registers for this to be worth much. But for NetBSD, looking in a non-x86-specific direction: I experimented with this on 68030s running More/BSD (Mt.Xinu's version of the Utah port of 4.3bsd-Tahoe, or thereabouts) to hp300s. I measured worthwhile savings from both passing arguments in registers and using callee-pops for non-variadic functions. That was with gcc 1.33; I don't know how much saving to expect from gcc2, if and when the -mregparm works again. I'd definitely encourage the NetBSD people with access to m68k machines to try it, though. Are there better alternatives, these days, than rewriting all the locore routines to use different calling convention? Like maybe adding attributes to a declaration to disable -mrtd? And of course, passing _syscall_ args in registers rather than on the normal stack saves copyin/copyout, and reduces syscall latency, which is a Good Thing for us time vultures. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 00:40:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15212 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA15197 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id TAA12755; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:40:19 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:40:15 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Bill Fenner cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: arpresolve errors In-Reply-To: <96Nov19.215218pst.177558@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Bill Fenner wrote: I wrote: > >Are messages like the one below indicative of mbuf problems, or something > >else? > > Generally they're indicative of routing problems. > >"arpresolve: can't allocate llinfo for 203.x.y.49" > > What's the routing table look like for 203.x.y.49? 203.x.y.48/28 203.x.y.49 UGc 203.x.y.49 203.x.y.34 UH 203.s.t 203.x.y.49 UGc > >A check through the messages file > >shows that it only happens to CSLIP links which are gateways to remote > >nets/subnets. > > Are you using gated? gated likes to add bogus host routes which confuse > the routing table. There's code in 2.2 that handles this. Yes, I am using gated. Yes, there are host routes, but they seem to make sense (e.g. the one listed above) for the point to point links. And the PPP-connected networks on this and another 2.1.5R terminal server have *not* exhibited this [arpresolve] behaviour, although the routing entries are equivalent. Thanks, Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 00:41:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15245 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:41:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA15234 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:41:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.3/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id IAA09259 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:40:58 GMT Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:40:58 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: RELENG_2_2 and CVS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I discovered that my CVS tree was corrupt after trying the following: cd /jaz cvs co -r RELENG_2_2 src # -r implies -P The checkout failed and later that night my cvsup cron job failed with the error "Possible reference of NIL". So I rm -rf /jaz/cvs; cvsup'ed the tree again; rm -rf /jaz/src; checked out 2.2 release; built a new kernel and things look fine now for testing 2.2. /jaz/src was current. Which brings me to a question, should I have done a cvs release src? The man pages say that doing a checkout-only is ok, but seems to recommend doing a release beforehand. What do most people do in practice, especially with something as large as the entire FreeBSD src tree? Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 04:42:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA29790 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:42:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from free-me.marben.be (gatekeeper.marben.be [194.78.27.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA29774 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:42:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by free-me.marben.be (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA11418 for <@gatekeeper.marben.be:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:42:22 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: free-me.marben.be: smap set sender to using -f Received: from tarifa.marben.be(172.20.0.254) by free-me.marben.be via smap (V1.3) id sma011416; Wed Nov 20 13:42:10 1996 Received: from tarifa.marben.be by tarifa via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) for id NAA00555; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:35:53 +0100 Message-ID: <3292FB29.63DE@marben.be> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:35:53 +0100 From: Jean-Pierre Morant Organization: Marben SA-NV X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Recuperating a DOS partition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello ! being a bit short on swap space I would like to reuse a DOS partition on my wd1 (second ESDI) disk. I've used fdisk to assign that partition to FreeBSD, then edited the fstab so that /dev/wd1s1f (the next available partition name) is seen as a swap partition. Apaprently there is a step inbetween that I'm missing : how to tell FreeBSD that the second (nr 1) partition on disk wd1 should be used as /dev/wd1s1f ? Do anybody know what I'm forgetting ? Thanks ADDITIONNAL INFO ===== Now, if I type swapon -a I get : swapon: /dev/wd1s1f: Device not configured fdisk /dev/wd1 tells me that : ******* Working on device /dev/wd1 ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=244160 heads=1 sectors/track=1 (1 blks/cyl) Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1 parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=244160 heads=1 sectors/track=1 (1 blks/cyl) Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 0 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 0, size 244160 (119 Meg), flag 80 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 1023/ sector 1/ head 0 The data for partition 1 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 0, size 244160 (119 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 0/ head 0; end: cyl 447/ sector 1/ head 0 The data for partition 2 is: The data for partition 3 is: where partition 0 is another file system mounted and used as : /dev/wd1s1e on /tmp (local) -- Jean-Pierre Morant c/o MARBEN S.A./N.V. La vie serait tellement Boulevard du Souverain,400, Vorstlaan plus facile 1160 Bruxelles Si seulement Belgium nous avions les sources.... + 32 2 663 1130 (phone) + 32 2 663 1199 (fax) http://www.marben.be jpm@marben.be From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 04:51:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA00689 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA00683 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from viking.ucsalf.ac.uk (viking.ucsalf.ac.uk [192.195.1.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id EAA14831 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by viking.ucsalf.ac.uk (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0vQC4o-00036MC; Wed, 20 Nov 96 12:48 GMT Message-Id: From: mark@plato.salford.ac.uk (Mark Powell) Subject: DLT4000 bootup problems To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 20 Nov 1996 12:48:22 -0000 X-Gated-To-News-By: news@ucsalf.ac.uk Xref: viking.ucsalf.ac.uk list.freebsd.scsi:730 list.freebsd.hackers:9260 list.freebsd.current:5747 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was testing a DLT4000 tape on my system. However, 2.2-960801 hung when the kernel was probing the scsi devices. Any ideas why? Yes, it was properly terminated and I'd slotted it in using the same cable, terminator and scsi ID of the DAT drive that is usually on that machine. -- Mark Powell - Unix Information Officer - Clifford Whitworth Building A.I.S., University of Salford, Salford, Manchester, UK. Tel: +44 161 745 5936 Fax: +44 161 736 3596 Email: mark@ucsalf.ac.uk finger mark@ucsalf.ac.uk (for PGP key) Home Page From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 06:00:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA05008 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 06:00:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA04920 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 05:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA05302 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:47:05 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA01872 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:47:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id MAA15134 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:08:00 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611201108.MAA15134@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: gated's weirdness (Was: arpresolve errors) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:08:00 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <96Nov19.215218pst.177558@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from Bill Fenner at "Nov 19, 96 09:52:13 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bill Fenner wrote: > Are you using gated? gated likes to add bogus host routes which confuse > the routing table. There's code in 2.2 that handles this. Btw., people might remember that i've once asked about some complaints GateD spits onto the console of our modem server whenever somebody logs in via PPP. Now that i've finally got 'round yesterday to DTRT and subnet our IP address space, my PPP peers are no longer inside the ether address range, and i could throw the d*mn proxyARP hackery overboards... Needless to say, GateD no longer complains! It works fine as expected, as soon as a PPP interface comes up, GateD notices it and offers routing for this peer. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 06:50:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA08671 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 06:50:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA08663 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 06:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.7.6/8.7.5) id JAA06770; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:50:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611201450.JAA06770@nimbus.superior.net> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:50:47 -0500 From: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing References: <199611200359.VAA06570@brasil.moneng.mei.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611200359.VAA06570@brasil.moneng.mei.com>; from Joe Greco on Nov 19, 1996 17:00:51 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco writes: > Ideally, in a school environment, each networked classroom or lab should > be on its own subnet, or perhaps several subnets. When the machines are [...] This falls apart when you have to deal with roaming. If your "school environment" isn't dealing with student laptops now, it will be within the next few years. The nicest solution I've seen is a large subnet (~13 bits) with smart IP switches. -- Christopher Masto . . . . Superior Net Support: support@superior.net chris@masto.com . . . . . Masto Consulting: info@masto.com On Book Titles, Confidence-Building: "Correctly English in 100 Days" - title from an East ASian book for beginning English speakers From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 06:54:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA08948 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 06:54:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA08939 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 06:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA10361; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:51:55 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA04510; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:51:54 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id PAA16176; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:46:54 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611201446.PAA16176@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Recuperating a DOS partition To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:46:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: jpm@marben.be (Jean-Pierre Morant) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <3292FB29.63DE@marben.be> from Jean-Pierre Morant at "Nov 20, 96 01:35:53 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jean-Pierre Morant wrote: > I've used fdisk to assign that partition to FreeBSD, > then edited the fstab so that /dev/wd1s1f (the next available partition > name) is seen as a swap partition. Are you confusing partitions and slices here? wd1s1f would be partition `f' on slice 1 on wd1. > The data for partition 0 is: > sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) > start 0, size 244160 (119 Meg), flag 80 > beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 0; > end: cyl 1023/ sector 1/ head 0 This is slice 1. > The data for partition 1 is: > sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) > start 0, size 244160 (119 Meg), flag 0 > beg: cyl 0/ sector 0/ head 0; > end: cyl 447/ sector 1/ head 0 This is slice 2, i think that's what you're actually trying to use? If so, it's /dev/wd1s2 (eventually followed by a partition letter). I'm not sure whether swapping to partitions != `b' is supported now; it wasn't supported in historic versions. At least, it's the cleanest to stick with the traditional names, disklabel wd1s2, and assign the entire space there to the `b' partition. See also the (updated) section 2.15 of the FAQ for traditional partition naming conventions. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 07:08:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA09825 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:08:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA09815 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:08:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA14960; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:13:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:13:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199611201513.KAA14960@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Chris Coleman From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing(translation) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Hal Snyder wrote: > >> > My question is: Does Freebsd support ipx to ip routing. I know that BSDi >> > does. (And they want $6,000 for their system because of it.) > >oops, I really meant ipx to ip TRANSLATION. I want to only have one host >using a ip address and all the others using ipx (or somthing similar) to >talk to the internet. Each computer would be mapped to by the MAC address >on the ethernet card. All communications with the internet would go >through FBSD host. www.netcon.com Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 07:41:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA11859 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:41:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from bnr.ca (x400bnr.nortel.ca [192.58.194.78]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA11847 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:40:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611201540.HAA11847@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from bcarsfba by bnr.ca id <19961120151739-2@bnr.ca>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:17:52 -0500 Received: from bnr.ca by bcarsfba.bnr.ca id <06564-0@bcarsfba.bnr.ca>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:12:43 -0500 Date: 20 Nov 1996 09:57 EST To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: jdli@freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, akiyama@kme.mei.co.jp, barry@scottb.demon.co.uk, john@talisker.demon.co.uk, jgumb@madge.com From: "barry (b.a.) scott" Subject: 640MB MO support source kit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Introduction ============ This kit contains changes to "FreeBSD 2.2-961006-SNAP" which implement support for disks with physical sector size of 512, 1024 and 2048 bytes. Authors: These changes are the joint effort of John Gumb (john@talisker.demon.co.uk) and Barry Scott (barry@scottb.demon.co.uk). Please contact us about these chanages. At this point only the od device has been changed. Changing the sd device would be straight forward; apply the changes from od.c to sd.c. We will submit a patch for sd.c later. This kit contains diffs that can be used with the 'patch' utility to update a virgin source tree. Location: via ftp at ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mo-2048kit.tar.gz 1. Source Changes necessary ======================== a) SBIN changes ------------ Patch file: sbin.MO.patch This file patches fdisk and newfs to support up to 2048 byte sectors. Files changed on system: /usr/src/sbin/newfs/newfs.c /usr/src/sbin/newfs/mkfs.c /usr/src/sbin/i386/fdisk/fdisk.c Corresponding files in this kit: mo-kit/sbin.MO.patch mo-kit/sbin/newfs/newfs.c mo-kit/sbin/newfs/mkfs.c mo-kit/sbin/i386/fdisk.c b) SYS chages ---------- Patch file sys.MO.patch This file patches the kernel to support up to 2048 byte sectors on the od device. Both ufs and msdosfs are supported on the od device. Files changed on system: /usr/src/sys/msdosfs/msdosfs_fat.c /usr/src/sys/msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c /usr/src/sys/msdosfs/msdosfsmount.h /usr/src/sys/kern/subr_diskslice.c /usr/src/sys/ufs/ufs/ufs_disksubr.c /usr/src/sys/scsi/od.c Corresponding files in this kit: mo-kit/sys.MO.patch mo-kit/sys/msdosfs/msdosfs_fat.c mo-kit/sys/msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c mo-kit/sys/msdosfs/msdosfsmount.h mo-kit/sys/kern/subr_diskslice.c mo-kit/sys/ufs/ufs/ufs_disksubr.c mo-kit/sys/scsi/od.c c) ETC changes ----------- The file disktab.MO contains the disktab entry for the Fujitsu M2513A MO drive with 2048 byte media. Files changed on system: /etc/disktab Corresponding file in this kit: mo-kit/disktab.MO 2. Testing performed ================= a) MSDOS ----- For MSDOS FS we created a FAT formated MO disk under Windows NT and placed files onto the disk from Windows NT. Under FreeBSD all the directories and files where confirmed to be readable. Under FreeBSD we created extra directories and wrote files on to the MO disk. FreeBSD could read these additional files. The disk was moved back to Windows NT and chkdsk was used to detect any file system corrupt. None found. Window NT was used to read the directories and files written under FreeBSB. b) UFS --- we use the following script to regression test disklabel and newfs: ------------- #!/bin/bash set -x echo Initing disk... umount /dev/od0a umount /dev/od0s1 logger -p local1.notice "Initing disk..." dd bs=2048 count=1 if=od0-mbr.fdisk of=/dev/rod0 dd bs=2048 count=2 seek=1 if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rod0 echo read disklabel... logger -p local1.notice "read disklabel before write..." disklabel /dev/rod0c echo read disklabel... logger -p local1.notice "read disklabel -r before write..." disklabel -r /dev/rod0c echo write disklabel... logger -p local1.notice "write disklabel..." disklabel -r -w /dev/rod0c m2513a-640mb testing-mo-code echo read disklabel after write... logger -p local1.notice "read disklabel..." disklabel /dev/rod0c echo newfs od0a logger -p local1.notice "newfs..." newfs /dev/rod0a echo mount od0a logger -p local1.notice "mount od0a..." mount /mo ------------- Note the file od0-mbr.fdisk contains a copy of the mbr written previously under FreeBSD by the new fdisk. The entire /usr/src/sys tree was written to the MO disk using cp -r. The disk was dismounted and then remounted. Then the entire /usr/src/sys tree was diffed against the MO disk copy. No differences found. The MO was dismounted and fsck was run. It detected no problems. 3. Misc. Information ================= a) FDISK ----- We have tended to create a single BSD slice using fdisk. Be aware that the slice should start at offset 1 and the file system size should be 310351 sectors; the first sector being reserved for the mbr/partition table information. The geometry we use is slightly different to the default (see our modified /etc/disktab) in order to utilise the full capacity of the media. The bios geometry we use is C/H/S 652/17/28 (652*17*28=310352). From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 07:41:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA11863 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:41:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from bnr.ca (x400bnr.nortel.ca [192.58.194.78]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA11852 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:40:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611201540.HAA11852@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from bcarsfba by bnr.ca id <19961120152457-0@bnr.ca>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:24:58 -0500 Received: from bnr.ca by bcarsfba.bnr.ca id <09220-0@bcarsfba.bnr.ca>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:19:48 -0500 Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:04 EST To: hackers@freebsd.org From: "barry (b.a.) scott" Subject: Re: Kernel calls - args in registers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This problem was reseached inside DEC by the compiler group. They found that it was far better to pass parameters on the stack and thus leave the optimiser a full set of registers to work with within the body of the routine. As gcc's optimiser improves it becomes less and less likely that passing args in registers will give an advantage. BArry From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 08:20:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA14165 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:20:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14066 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA07394; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:18:43 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611201618.KAA07394@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing To: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:18:43 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611201450.JAA06770@nimbus.superior.net> from "Christopher Masto" at Nov 20, 96 09:50:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Joe Greco writes: > > Ideally, in a school environment, each networked classroom or lab should > > be on its own subnet, or perhaps several subnets. When the machines are > [...] > > This falls apart when you have to deal with roaming. If your "school > environment" isn't dealing with student laptops now, it will be within > the next few years. > > The nicest solution I've seen is a large subnet (~13 bits) with smart > IP switches. What do you do about IP address collisions, then??????? Good lord. Hope you are great with an Ethernet sniffer, and your switches can trace on your behalf. We had this problem at MEI, trust me, it is virtually impossible to track down transient collisions on such a large network. I can just see the fireworks when Suzi Smith, the first year arts major, plugs in her workstation and mistakenly nails your gateway IP address in as her PC's IP address. Woo woo! There goes your Internet connectivity. I would think that in the sort of environment you are suggesting, one would think that DHCP is the ideal solution, and would allow for properly subnetted networks that do not suffer from the general problems of a network with 13 bits of space. That way you could even "roam" yourself to your home network, or your local ISP, or the other school across town where you decided to take one course for the hell of it. Incidentally: I am no big supporter of DHCP, I do not even like the concept, but for this kind of thing, it's really the right tool. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 09:05:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17689 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:05:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA17672 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.7.6/8.7.5) id MAA11015; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:03:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611201703.MAA11015@nimbus.superior.net> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:03:37 -0500 From: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Cc: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing References: <199611201450.JAA06770@nimbus.superior.net> <199611201618.KAA07394@brasil.moneng.mei.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611201618.KAA07394@brasil.moneng.mei.com>; from Joe Greco on Nov 20, 1996 10:18:43 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco writes: > > Joe Greco writes: > > > Ideally, in a school environment, each networked classroom or lab should > > > be on its own subnet, or perhaps several subnets. When the machines are > > [...] > > > > This falls apart when you have to deal with roaming. If your "school > > environment" isn't dealing with student laptops now, it will be within > > the next few years. > > > > The nicest solution I've seen is a large subnet (~13 bits) with smart > > IP switches. > > What do you do about IP address collisions, then??????? Good lord. Hope > you are great with an Ethernet sniffer, and your switches can trace on > your behalf. We had this problem at MEI, trust me, it is virtually > impossible to track down transient collisions on such a large network. The switches don't allow IP address collisions. They associate a hardware address with an IP address and talk to each other to keep things in sync. This is what they did where I went to school (RPI). When you're in your room with a laptop, packets for your IP get forwarded to that physical wire.. if you unplug the laptop and reconnect it in a classroom, the switch sees your first packet and updates its knowledge of where you are, physically. If you try to use the wrong IP, you are only affecting the physical segment that you are on, because the switch knows it's not correct and probably even sends an SNMP trap to let the administrators know. -- Christopher Masto . . . . Superior Net Support: support@superior.net chris@masto.com . . . . . Masto Consulting: info@masto.com On Machismo and Pestilence: In the early sixties, we were strong, we were virulent... - John Connally, Secretary of Treasury under Richard Nixon. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 09:17:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18637 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18625 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA07479; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:16:32 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611201716.LAA07479@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing To: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:16:31 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, exidor@superior.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611201703.MAA11015@nimbus.superior.net> from "Christopher Masto" at Nov 20, 96 12:03:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The switches don't allow IP address collisions. They associate a > hardware address with an IP address and talk to each other to keep > things in sync. This is what they did where I went to school (RPI). > When you're in your room with a laptop, packets for your IP get > forwarded to that physical wire.. if you unplug the laptop and > reconnect it in a classroom, the switch sees your first packet and > updates its knowledge of where you are, physically. If you try to use > the wrong IP, you are only affecting the physical segment that you are > on, because the switch knows it's not correct and probably even sends > an SNMP trap to let the administrators know. Ethernet switches are not supposed to do anything other than MAC level address routing. Switches by definition will certainly allow IP address collisions because they do not have a clue what the hell an IP address is. The other disadvantage of switches is the potentially large amount of ARP'ing that can go on to locate hosts in such a network. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 09:18:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18704 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:18:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from babs.netgazer.net (babs.netgazer.net [208.12.177.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18693 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [208.12.177.224] (furball.netgazer.com [208.12.177.224]) by babs.netgazer.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA05591 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:21:53 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:14:31 -0600 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: "Darrin R. Woods" Subject: Disk Striping Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just got my news server up and running INN (thanks to everyone that helped), but now I'm looking for a better way of dealing with it. I've got 3 Fast/Wide 4gb disks to hold news. It would be a lot easier (and better performance) if I could stripe (or span) the /var partition accross the 3 disks instead of having to guess as to how to partition each drive and into what sizes. The question: Is there a way to stripe a partition across multiple drives in FreeBSD? If not, does anyone know of a FreeBSD like OS that will do it? Preferably NOT Linux. Thanks, Darrin R. Woods | dwoods@netgazer.com Director | Netgazer Solutions, Inc. | http://www.netgazer.net Dallas, Texas | My employer most whole-heartedly denies everything I say From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 09:19:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18915 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:19:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18906 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:19:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA05469; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:19:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611201719.JAA05469@austin.polstra.com> To: michaelh@cet.co.jp Subject: Re: RELENG_2_2 and CVS Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:19:44 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article Mike Hancock writes: > I discovered that my CVS tree was corrupt after trying the following: > > cd /jaz > cvs co -r RELENG_2_2 src # -r implies -P > > The checkout failed and later that night my cvsup cron job failed with the > error "Possible reference of NIL". *Blush*, how embarrassing. There are still a couple of cases involving badly spammed CVS repositories that can cause this sort of thing to happen. If you still have a backup of the bad repository, I'd greatly appreciate getting a copy of the offending subtree. My current unreleased working version of CVSup has fixes for the two problems I was aware of. But neither of them involved null pointer dereferences, so this one could be new to me. > > So I rm -rf /jaz/cvs; cvsup'ed the tree again; rm -rf /jaz/src; checked > out 2.2 release; built a new kernel and things look fine now for testing > 2.2. > > /jaz/src was current. Which brings me to a question, should I have done a > cvs release src? No, "cvs release" doesn't affect the repository at all. It might affect your logfiles, but that's all. There's nothing wrong with doing a simple "rm -rf" of your working directory when you're done with it. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 09:31:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA20012 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20003 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com ([204.244.213.33]) by misery.sdf.com with SMTP id <963-253>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:54:55 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:54:48 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Integrating sendmail 8.8.3 into a 2.1.6 tree Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been trying to integrate sendmail 8.8.3 (taken from current) into a 2.1.6 tree. This looked very straightforward because the Makefiles and directory structure was nearly identical. However, when trying a "make all", make stops with a "don't know how to make /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/sysexits.h". I find this strange. sysexits.h isn't included with sendmail, and isn't mentioned in the Makefile, so why does make think it needs to be built? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 09:53:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA21852 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21840 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 09:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11306; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:37:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611201737.KAA11306@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing(translation) To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:37:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, chris@bb.cc.wa.us, hal@vailsys.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Daniel O'Callaghan" at Nov 20, 96 02:45:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You up for writing a winsock? If you were to write a winsock, and > > you made it use SOCKS to connect to a SOCKS IP Proxy Gateway, your > > name would be heralded from the tops of towers, in many circles, > > since it would mean the death of the hated "aliasing". > > Trumpet Winsock does this, last time I looked, or am I misunderstanding > what you are suggesting? I'll have to look; I wasn't aware of this... Thanks! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 10:01:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA22507 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:01:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.vianet.com.mx (mail.vianet.com.mx [200.23.228.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA22496 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:01:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns0.vianet.com.mx (auribe.vianet.com.mx [200.23.228.22]) by mail.vianet.com.mx (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA25527; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:59:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611201759.LAA25527@mail.vianet.com.mx> From: "Maestros Asociados" To: "Chris Timmons" , "Wilko Bulte" Cc: "FreeBSD hackers list" Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:58:48 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ---------- : From: Chris Timmons : To: Wilko Bulte : Cc: FreeBSD hackers list : Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD : Date: martes 19 de noviembre de 1996 13:28 : : : Well the great thing about FreeBSD is that it's FREE... so anybody can put : it on a CD and sell it. : : My preference has always been to buy from Walnut Creek CDROM because they : support the project. I personally subscribe to both the -RELEASE and : -SNAP cd distributions and have had excellent experience dealing with the : Walnut Creek people on the phone. Since we rely heavily on FreeBSD at : work, I spec Walnut Creek as the CD-ROM of choice there as well. Thanks : WC!!! : : -Chris : : On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Wilko Bulte wrote: : : > Hi there, : > : > I just today got a catalog in my PObox of Pacific HighTech CDROM. : > A bit to my surprise it has a 'Turbo FreeBSD' CDROM listed on it's : > cover. I contains 2.1.5R and a 2.2 SNAP (960801? it's very : > fine print). : > : > Comments? : > : > Wilko : > _ ____________________________________________________________________ : > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands : > |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda : > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- : > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 10:08:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23523 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23510 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11377; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:53:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611201753.KAA11377@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing To: tom@sdf.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:53:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: root@bb.cc.wa.us, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Nov 19, 96 05:57:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > My question is: Does Freebsd support ipx to ip routing. I know that BSDi > > does. (And they want $6,000 for their system because of it.) > > > > Do we have any plans for implementing it? > > You can't route between IP and IPX. They are incompatible. You can > can however tunnel IPX across an IP network. Sidebar: NetWare/IP uses encapsulated IPX on a native IP transport; it is impossible to get away from IPX if you are using NetWare. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 10:17:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24034 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24024 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11410; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:02:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611201802.LAA11410@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:02:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: exidor@superior.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611201618.KAA07394@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Nov 20, 96 10:18:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would think that in the sort of environment you are suggesting, one > would think that DHCP is the ideal solution, and would allow for properly > subnetted networks that do not suffer from the general problems of a > network with 13 bits of space. I agree. And I'm not a big fan of DHCP, either. Are people actually implementing PAP yet? One big problem is that most RAS clients on MS boxes (Windows 95 without the "Plus! Pack" and Windows NT prior to 4.x) do not do auto connection on the basis of routing information... ie: demand dial PPP. An application has to be RAS aware, or a human has to establish the connection. Bleah. But they are much better at being DHCP clients than a BSD box can generally stumble through. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 10:19:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24140 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24135 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA03189; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from crab.whistle.com(207.76.205.112) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003187; Wed Nov 20 10:17:44 1996 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by crab.whistle.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA06672; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:16:47 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199611201816.KAA06672@crab.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing(translation) In-Reply-To: <199611201737.KAA11306@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Nov 20, 96 10:37:51 am" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:16:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: danny@panda.hilink.com.au, terry@lambert.org, chris@bb.cc.wa.us, hal@vailsys.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: | > > You up for writing a winsock? If you were to write a winsock, and | > > you made it use SOCKS to connect to a SOCKS IP Proxy Gateway, your | > > name would be heralded from the tops of towers, in many circles, | > > since it would mean the death of the hated "aliasing". | > | > Trumpet Winsock does this, last time I looked, or am I misunderstanding | > what you are suggesting? | | I'll have to look; I wasn't aware of this... Thanks! Not to mention Hummingbird has a Win95/NT wedge for free and I've used at home, as well as, the 16 bit & 32 bit shims for Windows avaliable from NEC also for the download. Doug A. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 10:23:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24452 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:23:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24444 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA07582; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:22:06 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611201822.MAA07582@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Disk Striping To: dwoods@netgazer.com (Darrin R. Woods) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:22:05 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Darrin R. Woods" at Nov 20, 96 11:14:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just got my news server up and running INN (thanks to everyone that > helped), but now I'm looking for a better way of dealing with it. I've got > 3 Fast/Wide 4gb disks to hold news. It would be a lot easier (and better > performance) if I could stripe (or span) the /var partition accross the 3 > disks instead of having to guess as to how to partition each drive and into > what sizes. (I am not convinced that that statement is true...) > The question: Is there a way to stripe a partition across multiple drives > in FreeBSD? If not, does anyone know of a FreeBSD like OS that will do it? > Preferably NOT Linux. I recommend you go search the mailing list archives for almost anything I have ever written on the subject of Usenet news and FreeBSD. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 10:40:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA26231 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26225 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11457; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:26:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611201826.LAA11457@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com (Gary Clark II) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:26:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611200544.XAA19148@main.gbdata.com> from "Gary Clark II" at Nov 19, 96 11:44:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The problem is the dependencies for the existing code, and that fact > > that if the maintainers of the code haven't "upgraded", then we become > > promary support for the "upgraded" scripts. > > Most programs run fine with NO changes. As we gain more dependencies on PERL in the main line source tree, we will become more sensitive to PERL changes. Has PERL syntax reached the top end of the inverse expotential curve yet? If the last major rev is any indicator, the answer is "no". 8-(. When it starts to stagnate, then it will be safe. 8-). > > This would have been less of a problem in the 5.x changeover if the > > PERL distribution had a tool to upgrade scripts over the syntactic > > changes. > > Why don't C++ compliers supply the same thing? I've seen programmers > get bit by the same thing. Frank answer: because compiler writers are lazy. IMO, it is work 100 hours of compiler write time to save 1 hour of compiler user time is compiler users outnumber compiler writers 100 to 1. Since there are now in excess of 1.1 million professional programmers in the US alone, I kind of think the number is closer to 1000 to 1. One hour of compiler writer time for each 6 minutes of compiler user time. The whole MS "near/far" debacle could have been avoided if the compiler emitted pseduo-ops, which the linker resolved to near/far calls as necessary -- and as a result, totally hidden segments from the compiler user. Prototypes were the MS and Borland answer to the ANSI committee; they are useful in that they allow a migration path from C to C++, but the type-checking benefits result from not properly attributing object module contents in the first place... otherwise, the linker could catch the call return/argument mismatch by comparing attributes. Similarly, the "extern C" constructs are bogus name space selector mechanisms, only necessary because the object modules are once again, not attributed, and the linker is, once again, stupid. A lot of extra work for the compiler user because the compiler writer didn't want to have to spend the time. You can make similar arguments about applying "volatile" to variables instead of functions and memory ranges to make it innocuous (and in many cases, hide it with encapsulation -- ie: in __sighandler_t). A "volatile" function, by definition, is a crossing of a thread of control boundry. Stack scoping attribution could eliminate the need for volatile for everything by physical device memory references... any function crossing a thread of control (like a signal handler) would implicitly have non-local scope references treated as volatile. Etc., etc. Failure to provide "syntax upgrade" tools to post-process existing source code into the new syntax is just another instance of the same general problem. 8-(. And even if "syntax upgrade" tools were available, most of the PERL code in FreeBSD is "vendor branched"... which means convincing all the "vendors" to run the tools and rerelease their sources. There *will* be a latency in that process. > > The problem, again, is that the change cycle on PERL has historically > > been too short to base a FreeBSD release on a PERL release... PERL > > is moving faster than FreeBSD, in other words. > > HuH???!!!??? Include the latency in getting all vendors to the same revision level of the interpreter so that the new revision and all the dependent tools can be committed simultaneously. If FreeBSD has to run the conversion, then FreeBSD becomes the maintainer for each tool until the vendor himself runs the conversion. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 10:48:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA26649 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ec.camitel.com (ec.camitel.com [206.231.123.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA26558; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cfortin@localhost) by ec.camitel.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA00811; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:48:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.4 [p0] on FreeBSD X-PRIORITY: 2 (High) Priority: urgent Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:24:21 -0500 (EST) Organization: =?us-ascii?Q?=C9lectro-Conception?= From: Christian Fortin To: FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-STABLE@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CURRENT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CHAT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-ANNOUNCE@freebsd.org Subject: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk That's the 3th time that I talk with guy at Corel about WP 7.0. Corel seem to make avalable a version of WordPerfect 7.0 for Linux... Corel have the possibility to build a WP for FreeBSD also... :-) But they want to have an average of how many person will buy it ! WP 7.0 will avalable in the first quarter of 1997 at the price of 495$ US for single user. You add 299$ US for add licences... It include the support for many kind of keyboard language and all the stuf for build graphique... The files are compatible with WP for Windows and DOS. A Java version of Corel Office will be also avalable... ####################################################### # Send an e-mail with your coodinate at: # # wp@ec.camitel.com # # Just say: I want WP 7.0 For freeBSD !!! at 495$ # # Name: # # #tel: # # #Fax: # # Adress: # # ZIP: # ####################################################### If Corel take desision to release a FreeBSD version a person from Corel will contact you in few month... It depend how many personne want it... ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Christian Fortin Date: 11/20/96 Heure: 13:24:21 ##################################################--------+ Electro-Conception tel:(418) 872-6641 | 3665 Croisset fax:(418) 872-9198 | Quebec,P.Q. www.ec.camitel.com/ec | Canada ftp.ec.camitel.com | G1P-1L4 | /----|<|----WM--|(--J --------------------------L---WM-----< \----1 --- - From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 10:50:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA26845 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26840 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:50:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA15622 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:26:00 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA02667; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:22:36 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199611192222.XAA02667@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Turbo FreeBSD CD To: skynyrd@tahoma.cwu.edu (Chris Timmons) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:22:36 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris Timmons" at Nov 19, 96 11:28:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris Timmons wrote... > > Well the great thing about FreeBSD is that it's FREE... so anybody can put > it on a CD and sell it. > > My preference has always been to buy from Walnut Creek CDROM because they > support the project. I personally subscribe to both the -RELEASE and Exactly my point: looks a bit like 'easy money' for PHT to me. Maybe time to stamp 'the only original FreeBSD cdrom' on WC's one? > -SNAP cd distributions and have had excellent experience dealing with the > Walnut Creek people on the phone. Since we rely heavily on FreeBSD at > work, I spec Walnut Creek as the CD-ROM of choice there as well. Thanks > WC!!! > > -Chris Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 11:13:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28209 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:13:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA28195 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <19421(11)>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:23:14 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177557>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:23:02 -0800 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: Bill Fenner , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: arpresolve errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Nov 96 00:40:15 PST." Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:22:52 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Nov20.102302pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message you wr ite: >> What's the routing table look like for 203.x.y.49? > >203.x.y.48/28 203.x.y.49 UGc >203.x.y.49 203.x.y.34 UH >203.s.t 203.x.y.49 UGc You cut out the most important part. What's the interface for the host route? A ppp interface or an ethernet? Whose IP address is 203.x.y.34? >Yes, there are host routes, but they seem to make >sense (e.g. the one listed above) for the point to point links. I can't tell since I don't know who 203.x.y.34 is. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 11:49:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29732 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (root@news.hub.org [204.101.125.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29726 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:49:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.2/8.7.5) with SMTP id OAA04940; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:48:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:48:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Darrin R. Woods" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Disk Striping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Darrin R. Woods wrote: > I just got my news server up and running INN (thanks to everyone that > helped), but now I'm looking for a better way of dealing with it. I've got > 3 Fast/Wide 4gb disks to hold news. It would be a lot easier (and better > performance) if I could stripe (or span) the /var partition accross the 3 > disks instead of having to guess as to how to partition each drive and into > what sizes. > > The question: Is there a way to stripe a partition across multiple drives > in FreeBSD? If not, does anyone know of a FreeBSD like OS that will do it? > Preferably NOT Linux. > man 'ccd' and 'ccdconfig'...I've used it here, but due to some configuration changes (moved some drives over to an AHA controller), it no longer seems to work...I think its because of the adaptec 1542CF controller though, as I've been using it for the past 3+ months or so with little to no problems on an NCR controller... Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 11:49:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29756 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29751 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com ([204.244.213.33]) by misery.sdf.com with SMTP id <963-251>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:13:14 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Preserving local changes with cvsup Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I used to use "sup -k" to preserve a few local changes I made. What is a safe way to acomplish this with cvsup? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 12:04:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA01011 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:04:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA01004 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:04:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.8.2/8.8.2) id EAA20201 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 04:04:36 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 20 Nov 1996 20:04:35 GMT From: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <56vo8j$irv$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199611182122.OAA09009@hemi.com> Subject: Re: Help: ucd-snmpd w/freebsd Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , jc@irbs.com (John Capo) writes: > Quoting Ade Barkah (mbarkah@hemi.com): >> Hello, >> >> I'm getting rather frustrated trying to get an snmpd running for >> FreeBSD 2.1 machines. Please help! =-) Problem: the interface counters >> never seem to get updated once snmpd is running. >> >> Example. (on a pretty busy system network-wise): >> >> $ snmpget -v 1 localhost public interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 >> interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 = 558046531 >> >> (five minutes later) >> >> $ snmpget -v 1 localhost public interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 >> interfaces.ifTable.ifEntry.ifInOctets.1 = 558046531 >> > > The result of the last request is cached by snmpd. I haven't looked > at the code to see if this is a feature or not. Query another > variable then query ifInOctets.1 again and you should see that it > has changed. > > John Capo I ran into this when setting up mrtg, and disabled the "optimisation" in the snmpd code. I was unsure whether to commit the patch to the ports collection, it makes very little difference in cpu resource consumption but certainly makes a lot of strange side effects disappear. -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 12:09:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA01247 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA01241 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:09:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.8.2/8.8.2) id EAA20224 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 04:08:57 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 20 Nov 1996 20:08:55 GMT From: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <56vogn$irv$2@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: Subject: Re: Integrating sendmail 8.8.3 into a 2.1.6 tree Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , tom@sdf.com (Tom Samplonius) writes: > > I've been trying to integrate sendmail 8.8.3 (taken from current) into a > 2.1.6 tree. This looked very straightforward because the Makefiles and > directory structure was nearly identical. However, when trying a "make > all", make stops with a "don't know how to make > /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/src/sysexits.h". I find this strange. > sysexits.h isn't included with sendmail, and isn't mentioned in the > Makefile, so why does make think it needs to be built? > > Tom Most likely you have a stray .depend file somewhere.. Try doing a 'make cleandir obj depend' first before the build in the sendmail directory. -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 12:20:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA01705 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br [143.106.13.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA01696 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:20:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from vazquez@localhost) by kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (8.8.3/8.7.3/FreeBSD/2.1.5) id SAA16057 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:28:54 GMT From: Pedro A M Vazquez Message-Id: <199611201828.SAA16057@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Subject: [sci.math.num-analysis,comp.os.msdos.djgpp] Pentium Optimized BLAS (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:28:54 +0000 () Content-Type: message/news ; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dave Love said: > From burley@gnu.ai.mit.edu Wed Nov 20 16:58:35 1996 > Sender: fx@dl.ac.uk > To: g77-alpha@gnu.ai.mit.edu > Subject: [sci.math.num-analysis,comp.os.msdos.djgpp] Pentium Optimized BLAS > Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, Warrington WA4 4AD, UK > From: Dave Love > Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:48:54 +0000 > Message-ID: > Lines: 35 > X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.40/Emacs 19.34 > > There have been mutterings about this sort of thing here, I think, so > I'm copying it in case anyone's interested and hasn't seen it. I > haven't looked in detail, but he criticises G77's code generation. > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > From: mlkessle@cip.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Manuel Kessler) > Newsgroups: sci.math.num-analysis,comp.os.msdos.djgpp > Subject: Pentium Optimized BLAS > Date: 13 Nov 1996 16:10:20 GMT > Organization: CipPool der Physikalischen Institute, Uni Wuerzburg > Message-ID: <56crtc$re4@winx03.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de> > > Hi to all number crunchers, > I'm glad to announce the first test release of my pentium optimized > BLAS level 1 library. The most important functions of the BLAS level 1 > (xAXPY, xCOPY, xDOT, xNRM2, in both single and double precision) > have been completely rewritten in GNU assembler for achieving full > performance on intel pentium processors. The library is available in > both binary and source form for DOS/DJGPP and UNIX/LINUX at > > http://cip.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de/~mlkessle/blas1.html > > See there for further informations. Suggestions, bug reports, > comments etc. are very welcome, email adress see below. > > Thanks, > Manuel > > -- > Manuel Kessler > Graduate Student at the University of Wuerzburg, Germany, Physics Department > SNAIL: Zeppelinstrasse 5, D-97074 Wuerzburg, Germany > EMAIL: mlkessle@cip.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de > WWW: http://cip.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de/~mlkessle > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 12:36:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA02613 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02557; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA00889; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:36:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611202036.MAA00889@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Christian Fortin cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-STABLE@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CURRENT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CHAT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-ANNOUNCE@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:24:21 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:36:37 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I eagerly sent my request for WP 7.0 hope that many will do so also. If you don't code this is your chance to contribute 8) Regards, Amancio >From The Desk Of Christian Fortin : > That's the 3th time that I talk with guy at Corel about WP 7.0. > Corel seem to make avalable a version of WordPerfect 7.0 for Linux... > Corel have the possibility to build a WP for FreeBSD also... :-) > > But they want to have an average of how many person will buy it ! > > WP 7.0 will avalable in the first quarter of 1997 at the price > of 495$ US for single user. You add 299$ US for add licences... > > It include the support for many kind of keyboard language > and all the stuf for build graphique... > The files are compatible with WP for Windows and DOS. > > A Java version of Corel Office will be also avalable... > > > > ####################################################### > # Send an e-mail with your coodinate at: # > # wp@ec.camitel.com # > # Just say: I want WP 7.0 For freeBSD !!! at 495$ # > # Name: # > # #tel: # > # #Fax: # > # Adress: # > # ZIP: # > ####################################################### > > If Corel take desision to release a FreeBSD version > a person from Corel will contact you in few month... > It depend how many personne want it... > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: Christian Fortin > Date: 11/20/96 > Heure: 13:24:21 > ##################################################--------+ > Electro-Conception tel:(418) 872-6641 | > 3665 Croisset fax:(418) 872-9198 | > Quebec,P.Q. www.ec.camitel.com/ec | > Canada ftp.ec.camitel.com | > G1P-1L4 | /----|<|----WM--|(--J > --------------------------L---WM-----< > \----1 > --- > - From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 12:52:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA06327 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA06291 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id WAA10785; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:52:26 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199611202052.WAA10785@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Help: ucd-snmpd w/freebsd In-Reply-To: <56vo8j$irv$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> from Peter Wemm at "Nov 20, 96 08:04:35 pm" To: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:52:26 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > The result of the last request is cached by snmpd. I haven't looked > > at the code to see if this is a feature or not. Query another > > variable then query ifInOctets.1 again and you should see that it > > has changed. > > > > John Capo > > I ran into this when setting up mrtg, and disabled the "optimisation" in > the snmpd code. I was unsure whether to commit the patch to the ports > collection, it makes very little difference in cpu resource consumption > but certainly makes a lot of strange side effects disappear. > > -Peter > Yes, please put it in. At first my work-around was to configure mrtg to monitor two interfaces om the machine, until I could figure out where in the code the problem was. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 13:22:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA10927 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:22:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA10921 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA31783; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:22:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:22:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: Christian Fortin Cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-Reply-To: <199611202036.MAA00889@rah.star-gate.com> Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: >Well, I eagerly sent my request for WP 7.0 hope that many will do >so also. If you don't code this is your chance to contribute 8) Wow...I'd like it, but $500 is sorta rich for my blood right now? How much for the student version? :-) Sigh. Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 13:35:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA11561 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (root@hub.org [204.101.125.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11376; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:34:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.2/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA22765; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:33:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:33:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Amancio Hasty cc: Christian Fortin , FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-STABLE@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CURRENT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CHAT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-ANNOUNCE@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-Reply-To: <199611202036.MAA00889@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Well, I eagerly sent my request for WP 7.0 hope that many will do > so also. If you don't code this is your chance to contribute 8) > I *really* hate to put a wrench in the works...but *please* do not send a message to Coral if its only to bolster the numbers. I would really hate for everyone to send in a mail message, get them to release it for FreeBSD, and find 10% actually buy a copy...it would really really set a bad precedent(sp?), which could hurt us long term... :( > Regards, > Amancio > > >From The Desk Of Christian Fortin : > > That's the 3th time that I talk with guy at Corel about WP 7.0. > > Corel seem to make avalable a version of WordPerfect 7.0 for Linux... > > Corel have the possibility to build a WP for FreeBSD also... :-) > > > > But they want to have an average of how many person will buy it ! > > > > WP 7.0 will avalable in the first quarter of 1997 at the price > > of 495$ US for single user. You add 299$ US for add licences... > > > > It include the support for many kind of keyboard language > > and all the stuf for build graphique... > > The files are compatible with WP for Windows and DOS. > > > > A Java version of Corel Office will be also avalable... > > > > > > > > ####################################################### > > # Send an e-mail with your coodinate at: # > > # wp@ec.camitel.com # > > # Just say: I want WP 7.0 For freeBSD !!! at 495$ # > > # Name: # > > # #tel: # > > # #Fax: # > > # Adress: # > > # ZIP: # > > ####################################################### > > > > If Corel take desision to release a FreeBSD version > > a person from Corel will contact you in few month... > > It depend how many personne want it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > E-Mail: Christian Fortin > > Date: 11/20/96 > > Heure: 13:24:21 > > ##################################################--------+ > > Electro-Conception tel:(418) 872-6641 | > > 3665 Croisset fax:(418) 872-9198 | > > Quebec,P.Q. www.ec.camitel.com/ec | > > Canada ftp.ec.camitel.com | > > G1P-1L4 | /----|<|----WM--|(--J > > --------------------------L---WM-----< > > \----1 > > --- > > - > > Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 13:46:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA12549 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:46:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from glacier.cold.org (glacier.cold.org [206.81.134.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12543 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by glacier.cold.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20037; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:46:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:46:10 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: "Brian N. Handy" cc: Christian Fortin , FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Wow...I'd like it, but $500 is sorta rich for my blood right now? How > much for the student version? :-) I agree--I would love to have it--but 'vi' does just fine when price compared to $500. -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 13:56:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA13275 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13269 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.7.6/8.7.5) id QAA20162; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:55:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611202155.QAA20162@nimbus.superior.net> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:55:27 -0500 From: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing References: <199611201703.MAA11015@nimbus.superior.net> <199611201716.LAA07479@brasil.moneng.mei.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611201716.LAA07479@brasil.moneng.mei.com>; from Joe Greco on Nov 20, 1996 11:16:31 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco writes: > Ethernet switches are not supposed to do anything other than MAC level > address routing. > > Switches by definition will certainly allow IP address collisions because > they do not have a clue what the hell an IP address is. > > The other disadvantage of switches is the potentially large amount of > ARP'ing that can go on to locate hosts in such a network. I guess you're not aware of some of the stuff Synoptics/Bay makes. Check it out sometime - it may come in handy some day. -- Christopher Masto . . . . Superior Net Support: support@superior.net chris@masto.com . . . . . Masto Consulting: info@masto.com On Flight Attendants, International: The stewardesses of Southwest Airlines must go through four steps, such as hardship, tiredment, dirt feeling. Beside the quality of general stewardess. - from the first edition of Chinese airline Southwest Civil Aviation's - Inflight Magazine. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 13:59:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA13414 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:59:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13408 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA07895; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:58:45 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611202158.PAA07895@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing To: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:58:45 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611202155.QAA20162@nimbus.superior.net> from "Christopher Masto" at Nov 20, 96 04:55:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Joe Greco writes: > > Ethernet switches are not supposed to do anything other than MAC level > > address routing. > > > > Switches by definition will certainly allow IP address collisions because > > they do not have a clue what the hell an IP address is. > > > > The other disadvantage of switches is the potentially large amount of > > ARP'ing that can go on to locate hosts in such a network. > > I guess you're not aware of some of the stuff Synoptics/Bay makes. Check it > out sometime - it may come in handy some day. What I'm aware of and what a switch - by definition - is, are two potentially different things. Anything that performs switching at a non-MAC layer is not an Ethernet switch, it is something else. "Learn the correct terminology - it may come in handy some day." ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 14:05:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13627 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13616 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA13819; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:04:15 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:04:12 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Bill Fenner cc: Bill Fenner , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: arpresolve errors In-Reply-To: <96Nov20.102302pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Bill Fenner wrote: > In a message you write: > >> What's the routing table look like for 203.x.y.49? > > > >203.x.y.48/28 203.x.y.49 UGc > >203.x.y.49 203.x.y.34 UH > >203.s.t 203.x.y.49 UGc > > You cut out the most important part. What's the interface for the host > route? A ppp interface or an ethernet? Whose IP address is 203.x.y.34? > > >Yes, there are host routes, but they seem to make > >sense (e.g. the one listed above) for the point to point links. > > I can't tell since I don't know who 203.x.y.34 is. Woops. Sorry, I meant to say that 34 is the local address of the slip interface. 203.x.y.48/28 203.x.y.49 UGc sl1 203.x.y.49 203.x.y.34 UH sl1 203.s.t 203.x.y.49 UGc sl1 The problem is not occurring right at the moment, so I can't see if it varies the routing table. I'll put a watcher program on /var/log/messages to do a netstat -rn when it sees the arpresolve messages. Ethernet IP address is 203.29.224.17. Most ppp and slip interfaces use 203.2.144.1 as the local IP address, including other CSLIP interfaces which have been breaking. I have some 'numbered interface' links and some 'unnumbered interface links'. A few logic data points for you: Type Problem observed CSLIP links yes cslip -> remote net yes cslip -> w/o remote net no cslip -> rem net, numbered yes cslip -> rem net, unnumbered yes ppp links no ppp -> remote net no ppp -> w/o remote net no ppp -> remote net, numbered no ppp -> rem net, unnumbered no Note that if I did not have an example of any of the above, I would have put n/a. Thanks, Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 14:09:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14009 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:09:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13948; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from spyder.inna.net (jamie@spyder.inna.net [206.151.66.4]) by tyger.inna.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA01071; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:13:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:14:49 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Amancio Hasty cc: Christian Fortin , FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-STABLE@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CURRENT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CHAT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-ANNOUNCE@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-Reply-To: <199611202036.MAA00889@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk WP 7.0 for $500? You're out of your mind. If the software vendors didn't rape UNIX users for using there software, maybe more of us would. On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Well, I eagerly sent my request for WP 7.0 hope that many will do > so also. If you don't code this is your chance to contribute 8) > > Regards, > Amancio > > >From The Desk Of Christian Fortin : > > That's the 3th time that I talk with guy at Corel about WP 7.0. > > Corel seem to make avalable a version of WordPerfect 7.0 for Linux... > > Corel have the possibility to build a WP for FreeBSD also... :-) > > > > But they want to have an average of how many person will buy it ! > > > > WP 7.0 will avalable in the first quarter of 1997 at the price > > of 495$ US for single user. You add 299$ US for add licences... > > > > It include the support for many kind of keyboard language > > and all the stuf for build graphique... > > The files are compatible with WP for Windows and DOS. > > > > A Java version of Corel Office will be also avalable... > > > > > > > > ####################################################### > > # Send an e-mail with your coodinate at: # > > # wp@ec.camitel.com # > > # Just say: I want WP 7.0 For freeBSD !!! at 495$ # > > # Name: # > > # #tel: # > > # #Fax: # > > # Adress: # > > # ZIP: # > > ####################################################### > > > > If Corel take desision to release a FreeBSD version > > a person from Corel will contact you in few month... > > It depend how many personne want it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > E-Mail: Christian Fortin > > Date: 11/20/96 > > Heure: 13:24:21 > > ##################################################--------+ > > Electro-Conception tel:(418) 872-6641 | > > 3665 Croisset fax:(418) 872-9198 | > > Quebec,P.Q. www.ec.camitel.com/ec | > > Canada ftp.ec.camitel.com | > > G1P-1L4 | /----|<|----WM--|(--J > > --------------------------L---WM-----< > > \----1 > > --- > > - > > > Jamie Bowden Network Administrator, TBI Ltd. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 14:16:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16105 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA15915 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.dk.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA05474 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:16:43 +0100 (MET) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Help identifying a compressed file Reply-to: phk@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:16:42 +0100 Message-ID: <5472.848528202@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can anybody recognize this fileformat ? It's some kind of MS/DOS compressed file, but I don't know what program were used to compress it :-( 00000000 53 5a 44 44 88 f0 27 33 41 00 88 1c 03 00 ff 3f |SZDD..'3A......?| 00000010 5f 03 00 c3 35 00 00 7d ff f8 f0 88 1c 03 00 b3 |_...5..}........| 00000020 f5 f0 fd aa f5 f0 00 9c 06 00 01 bc ff 41 00 00 |.............A..| -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 14:41:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18649 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from guardian.fortress.org (fortress.org [199.84.158.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18643 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from andrew@localhost) by guardian.fortress.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA02936; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:42:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:42:48 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Webster Reply-To: andrew@pubnix.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > Wow...I'd like it, but $500 is sorta rich for my blood right now? How > > much for the student version? :-) > > I agree--I would love to have it--but 'vi' does just fine when price > compared to $500. > > -Brandon Gillespie How about a 'Not for Resale' version. You can purchase NFR WP for Windoze at a substantially reduced price if you are a VAR. Regards, Andrew Webster andrew@pubnix.net PubNIX Montreal Connected to the world Branche au monde P.O. Box 147 Cote Saint Luc, Quebec H4V 2Y3 tel 514.990.5911 http://www.pubnix.net fax 514.990.9443 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 14:48:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA19063 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA19055 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.3/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id WAA15532 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:48:37 GMT Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:48:37 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: RELENG_2_2 and cvs sticky tags Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ARGH! My cvs update brought my source up to current. I thought sticky tags meant cvs update would do the right thing. $ cvs status ftpio.h =================================================================== File: ftpio.h Status: Up-to-date Working revision: 1.10 Wed Nov 20 17:45:45 1996 Repository revision: 1.10 /jaz/cvs/src/lib/libftpio/ftpio.h,v Sticky Tag: (none) Sticky Date: (none) Sticky Options: (none) $ cvs log ftpio.h RCS file: /jaz/cvs/src/lib/libftpio/ftpio.h,v Working file: ftpio.h head: 1.10 branch: locks: strict access list: symbolic names: RELENG_2_1_6_RELEASE: 1.2.2.3 RELENG_2_2: 1.8.0.2 RELENG_2_2_BP: 1.8 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 15:03:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA19609 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from hod.tera.com (hod.tera.com [206.215.142.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA19590; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [206.215.142.62]) by hod.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA17835; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:02:22 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA02890; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:02:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611202302.PAA02890@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at "Nov 20, 96 04:33:44 pm" To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:02:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, cfortin@ec.camitel.com, FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.org, FREEBSD-STABLE@FreeBSD.org, FREEBSD-CURRENT@FreeBSD.org, FREEBSD-CHAT@FreeBSD.org, FREEBSD-ANNOUNCE@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Marc G. Fournier: > On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Well, I eagerly sent my request for WP 7.0 hope that many will do > > so also. If you don't code this is your chance to contribute 8) > > > > I *really* hate to put a wrench in the works...but *please* do not > send a message to Coral if its only to bolster the numbers. I would > really hate for everyone to send in a mail message, get them to release > it for FreeBSD, and find 10% actually buy a copy...it would really really > set a bad precedent(sp?), which could hurt us long term... :( > > Indeed. I hope that WP 7.0 is the first of many prev'ly DOS-only or Mac-only ports. The one tool that I would buy is that checkbook/banking program. The way to initiate these ports to FreeBSD is to be willing to buy them. gary kline From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 15:06:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA19873 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.my.domain (caliban.mrtc.org [199.4.33.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA19850 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.2/8.6.9) id NAA01673; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:05:32 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199611202305.NAA01673@localhost.my.domain> Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) To: brandon@glacier.cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:05:31 -1000 (HST) Cc: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, cfortin@ec.camitel.com, FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Brandon Gillespie at "Nov 20, 96 02:46:10 pm" From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brandon Gillespie >> Wow...I'd like it, but $500 is sorta rich for my blood right now? How >> much for the student version? :-) > >I agree--I would love to have it--but 'vi' does just fine when price >compared to $500. > >-Brandon Gillespie The Linux version of WP6 is available from Caldera for $295. (Works well under FreeBSD - though I HATE using Linux software) Why is there a $200 price difference for the single version change? -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 15:18:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20335 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:18:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu (delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu [128.135.5.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20323 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from bio-5.bsd.uchicago.edu (bio-5.bsd.uchicago.edu [128.135.75.14]) by delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3/BSD-4.0) with SMTP id RAA25575; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:17:37 -0600 (CST) Received: by bio-5.bsd.uchicago.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA08856; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:17:32 +0600 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:17:32 +0600 Message-Id: <9611202317.AA08856@bio-5.bsd.uchicago.edu> To: terry@lambert.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611201826.LAA11457@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:26:32 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! From: Tim Pierce Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Terry Lambert > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:26:32 -0700 (MST) > > Has PERL syntax reached the top end of the inverse expotential curve > yet? If the last major rev is any indicator, the answer is "no". 8-(. > > When it starts to stagnate, then it will be safe. 8-). Again, the last major release of Perl was over two years ago, and since then the syntax has changed minimally (if at all, which I doubt). In fact, the reason given then for the watershed changes in Perl 5.000 was to attempt to "freeze" the basic Perl code base, and encourage extending the language through modules rather than kludging the interpreter. Perl has stagnated more in the last two years than FreeBSD has. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 15:21:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20754 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua ([194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20678; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [194.93.190.3]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA22508; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:19:47 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:19:47 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: Jamie Bowden cc: Amancio Hasty , Christian Fortin , FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-STABLE@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CURRENT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-CHAT@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-ANNOUNCE@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello people, On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > WP 7.0 for $500? You're out of your mind. If the software vendors didn't > rape UNIX users for using there software, maybe more of us would. Gmm. Let's everyone really write the message to Corel, but inserting your own actual idea of how much should it cost for you just go and buy it. Why should you lie, what for? Proposed template: To: wp@ec.camitel.com Subject: WP 7.0 For freeBSD Hello, I'll happily buy WP 7.0 for FreeBSD! _but_ at $67.95, not 495$; and if the price will be $49.95, I will shout at each street corner about such a great offer from Corel to us, free-UNIX users. (Please remember -- free-UNIX users aren't corporations!) Thanks! Name: Joe hacker tel: 2223322 Fax: 3332233 Adress: ... ZIP: ... Substitute your idea of reasonable price for WP 7.0 in the template above. :-) I'm not in US, so my idea of reasonability might differ from yours. BTW -- what will be WP 7.0 price for their winglows97 version? That might give us yet another approximation of price reasonability. -- Best, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 15:25:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20995 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:25:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20990 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com ([204.244.213.33]) by misery.sdf.com with SMTP id <963-252>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:49:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:49:21 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Joe Greco cc: Christopher Masto , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing In-Reply-To: <199611202158.PAA07895@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > Joe Greco writes: > > > Ethernet switches are not supposed to do anything other than MAC level > > > address routing. > > > > > > Switches by definition will certainly allow IP address collisions because > > > they do not have a clue what the hell an IP address is. > > > > > > The other disadvantage of switches is the potentially large amount of > > > ARP'ing that can go on to locate hosts in such a network. > > > > I guess you're not aware of some of the stuff Synoptics/Bay makes. Check it > > out sometime - it may come in handy some day. > > What I'm aware of and what a switch - by definition - is, are two > potentially different things. > > Anything that performs switching at a non-MAC layer is not an Ethernet > switch, it is something else. > > "Learn the correct terminology - it may come in handy some day." > > ... JG Thats right. What has been described sounds like a bridge, not a switch. I guess you just have a big multi-port bridge. Probably supports 802.1D for interlinking bridges. Bridges learn IP addresses of systems connected to each segement, and uses this information to direct traffic. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 15:51:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA22444 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:51:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA22437 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pooh.cdrom.com (pooh.cdrom.com [204.216.28.222]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA15633 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from nebula.cdrom.com (nebula.cdrom.com [204.216.28.166]) by pooh.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA02600 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by nebula.cdrom.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA00726; Wed, 20 Nov 96 15:52:51 -0800 Message-Id: <9611202352.AA00726@nebula.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) X-Face: ai[hyoqe:f9G)"BQ&cQ[ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 15:52:47 -0800 To: tech@pooh.cdrom.com Subject: wcarchive is DOWN. URGENT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: eric@cdrom.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk CRL called, wcarchive is down. The guy name at CRL is Arron 415-837-5300. Eric "E.T." Tremblay Walnut Creek CDROM eric@cdrom.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 17:40:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA26441 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA26431 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.3/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id BAA16592 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:40:31 GMT Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:40:30 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: RELENG_2_2 and cvs sticky tags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Blush. Operator error. My .cvsrc file looks like this: update -d -P -A # -A forgets tags diff -u sigh. On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Michael Hancock wrote: > ARGH! > > My cvs update brought my source up to current. I thought sticky tags > meant cvs update would do the right thing. > > $ cvs status ftpio.h > =================================================================== > File: ftpio.h Status: Up-to-date > > Working revision: 1.10 Wed Nov 20 17:45:45 1996 > Repository revision: 1.10 /jaz/cvs/src/lib/libftpio/ftpio.h,v > Sticky Tag: (none) > Sticky Date: (none) > Sticky Options: (none) > > > $ cvs log ftpio.h > > RCS file: /jaz/cvs/src/lib/libftpio/ftpio.h,v > Working file: ftpio.h > head: 1.10 > branch: > locks: strict > access list: > symbolic names: > RELENG_2_1_6_RELEASE: 1.2.2.3 > RELENG_2_2: 1.8.0.2 > RELENG_2_2_BP: 1.8 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 18:39:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA28486 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:39:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28471 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:39:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from unix1.ism.com.br by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA05510 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:27:12 -0800 Received: from clpc1.compuland.com.br (clpc1.compuland.com.br [200.255.96.22]) by unix1.ism.com.br (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id WAA15690; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:26:01 -0200 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:26:01 -0200 Message-Id: <199611210026.WAA15690@unix1.ism.com.br> X-Sender: compland@ism.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: compland@ism.com.br (Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica) Subject: socket.h Cc: zyang01@fiu.edu Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi: Sorry posting here. I'm not member of the developers group but I have a question that maybe someone from this list can help me ! The problem is that I'm tring to port an irc gateway to WWW, written by Zhong Yang in C. I'm stuck in the following: this is from /include/sys/socket.h struct sockaddr { u_char sa_len; /* total length */ u_char sa_family; /* address family */ char sa_data[14]; /* actually longer; address value */ this is from /include/netinet/in.h struct sockaddr_in { u_char sin_len; u_char sin_family; u_short sin_port; struct in_addr sin_addr; char sin_zero[8]; And here, the problem. That's actually part of the code of the gateway: struct sockaddr_in SocketInetAddr; ^^^^^^^^^^^ SocketInetAddr.sin_port = htons(Port); SocketDescriptor = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 6); if (SocketDescriptor < 0) { perror("socket"); return (-1); } if (connect(SocketDescriptor, ( char *) &SocketInetAddr, sizeof(SocketInetAddr)) < 0) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ RETURN_SUCCESS=1; else RETURN_SUCCESS=0; The above call to CONNECT reports an error because the connect function expects, in the second field, the use of sockaddr. But in the program, the call is for sockaddr_in. I don't know if in AIX or hpux this structures are the same, but I know that it works there ! Anyone has an idea how can I change this piece of code to put it to work in FreeBSD ? Thanks a lot! Sorry for the off_topic question! Regards, Helio. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 18:40:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA28718 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:40:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28692 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ec.camitel.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA26833 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:53:19 -0800 Received: (from cfortin@localhost) by ec.camitel.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA01783; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:50:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.4 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 2 (High) Priority: urgent Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611202305.NAA01673@localhost.my.domain> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:31:33 -0500 (EST) Organization: =?us-ascii?Q?=C9lectro-Conception?= From: Christian Fortin To: "David Langford" Subject: WP 7.0 message :-) Cc: (Brandon Gillespie) , handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi evrybody... I just want to say: -Thank's to pay attention to not replay to every group that I have put in the CC : !!! I have not think about band width !!! :-( -I am not an international resseler of WP, I am just a guy that want to have WP on FreeBSD and try to force Corel to build a native version of WP 7.0 for FreeBSD. I just take a list of name who represent the more precilely that I can the population that want to pay for that.... -Many person send an e-mail on wp@ec.camitel.com,... many say "I place order but it's expensive :-( ..." I will give all coments to Corel. Maybe they will drop the price ??? I dont know! -The WP 6.2 that presently work on Linux and FreeBSD is ibcs2 binary...for SCO. Including the kit from Caldera... -For the price, I don't now why it's 200$ of more than the regular price. That price is the price that Corel's guy have give to me... Maybe it's not the good price, but it's what I have receive from Corel's guy. If you want, send email to sales@corel.com -For see what is WP 6.2 for SCO see: http://www.corel.com/products/unix/wpunix/index.htm -For student version, I dont know about it... But usualy it's avalable for half the price. On 20-Nov-96 "David Langford" wrote: >>Brandon Gillespie >>> Wow...I'd like it, but $500 is sorta rich for my blood right now? How >>> much for the student version? :-) >> >>I agree--I would love to have it--but 'vi' does just fine when price >>compared to $500. >> >>-Brandon Gillespie > >The Linux version of WP6 is available from Caldera for $295. >(Works well under FreeBSD - though I HATE using Linux software) > >Why is there a $200 price difference for the single version change? > >-David Langford > langfod@dihelix.com ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Christian Fortin Date: 11/20/96 Heure: 18:31:33 ##################################################--------+ Electro-Conception tel:(418) 872-6641 | 3665 Croisset fax:(418) 872-9198 | Quebec,P.Q. www.ec.camitel.com/ec | Canada ftp.ec.camitel.com | G1P-1L4 | /----|<|----WM--|(--J --------------------------L---WM-----< \----1 --- - From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 18:44:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA28968 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28963 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:44:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.Artisoft.COM by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA13676 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:00:50 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA12256; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:42:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611210042.RAA12256@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) To: langfod@dihelix.com (David Langford) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:42:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: brandon@glacier.cold.org, handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, cfortin@ec.camitel.com, FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611202305.NAA01673@localhost.my.domain> from "David Langford" at Nov 20, 96 01:05:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The Linux version of WP6 is available from Caldera for $295. > (Works well under FreeBSD - though I HATE using Linux software) > > Why is there a $200 price difference for the single version change? The ironic among us would say: Linux + WP + $200 == FreeBSD + WP 8-P. But that would, of course, be flame-bait to get the Linux advocacy at Corel to advocate a similar pricing for the FreeBSD release so Linux doesn't look (comparatively) $200 less desirable than FreeBSD... 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 19:32:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA01639 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:32:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01631 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id TAA12966; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.8.3/8.7.6) id TAA01170; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:30:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199611210330.TAA01170@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: wcarchive is DOWN. URGENT To: eric@cdrom.com Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:30:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: tech@pooh.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9611202352.AA00726@nebula.cdrom.com> from Eric Tremblay at "Nov 20, 96 03:52:47 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > CRL called, wcarchive is down. The guy name at CRL is Arron 415-837-5300. > > Eric "E.T." Tremblay > Walnut Creek CDROM > eric@cdrom.com > Is anyone doing something about it ? Is man power missing ? I am right now still in Mountain View, if I can help. 415-933-1012 (pager 415-317-2420) Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 19:33:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA01682 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:33:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01677 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id OAA02484 Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:33:26 +1100 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199611210333.OAA02484@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Help: ucd-snmpd w/freebsd In-Reply-To: <56vo8j$irv$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> from Peter Wemm at "Nov 20, 96 08:04:35 pm" To: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:33:26 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Wemm writes: > I ran into this when setting up mrtg, and disabled the "optimisation" in > the snmpd code. I was unsure whether to commit the patch to the ports > collection, it makes very little difference in cpu resource consumption > but certainly makes a lot of strange side effects disappear. While you're at it .. if this hasn't already been addressed, could you please fix snmpnetstat to correct the byte-order of port numbers .. *** inet.c Sat Sep 30 06:43:19 1995 --- /root/inet.c Fri Aug 2 16:15:33 1996 *************** *** 509,519 **** cp = (char *) index(line, '\0'); #endif if (!nflag && port) ! sp = getservbyport((int)port, proto); if (sp || port == 0) sprintf(cp, "%.8s", sp ? sp->s_name : "*"); else ! sprintf(cp, "%d", ntohs((u_short)port)); width = 22; printf(" %-*.*s", width, width, line); } --- 509,519 ---- cp = (char *) index(line, '\0'); #endif if (!nflag && port) ! sp = getservbyport(ntohs(port), proto); if (sp || port == 0) sprintf(cp, "%.8s", sp ? sp->s_name : "*"); else ! sprintf(cp, "%d", (u_short)port); width = 22; printf(" %-*.*s", width, width, line); } From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 19:46:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA02131 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:46:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02120 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id OAA10837; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:14:53 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611210344.OAA10837@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: from David Nugent at "Nov 20, 96 04:28:42 pm" To: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:14:52 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Nugent stands accused of saying: > > Yes, I use it quite a bit, but in a base distribution I don't really > see it as an appropriate tool. It is certainly easier that programming > in, say, bourne shell, and probably significantly faster too. But I > still think it is a mistake it being part of the base system. I think that there's a very important line to be drawn between "I don't think I need it in the system" and "It should not be in the system". The former is fine, and probably applies to a lot of people. Then again, it can also be applied to 90% of the system for 90% of users - the point being that when you aggregate everything that people want/need, you cover prettymuch everything. My point is that there are a sufficient number of people that consider Perl a 'should-have' to justify its inclusion on those grounds. The latter point bears discussion; someone putting this point needs to offer a counter to the benefits promised by the former. So far, most of the arguments have been "because I don't think it should be" (which counts for very little), or "because Perl keeps changing" (which has been comprehensively refuted by Perl users I am inclined to trust). Other arguments that have been offered for the latter in previous discussions; "Perl is too big" (size is relative, disk is cheap), "Perl would be too hard to track" (contrib scheme should fix this). I'm still open to argument on this; I just haven't heard a counter that holds up under scrutiny. > David Nugent, Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 19:52:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA02339 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:52:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02333 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id OAA03624 Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:51:57 +1100 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199611210351.OAA03624@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Disk Striping In-Reply-To: from "Darrin R. Woods" at "Nov 20, 96 11:14:31 am" To: dwoods@netgazer.com (Darrin R. Woods) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:51:56 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Darrin R. Woods writes: > I just got my news server up and running INN (thanks to everyone that > helped), but now I'm looking for a better way of dealing with it. I've got > 3 Fast/Wide 4gb disks to hold news. It would be a lot easier (and better > performance) if I could stripe (or span) the /var partition accross the 3 > disks instead of having to guess as to how to partition each drive and into > what sizes. With "only" three drives, you don't want to stripe across them. There are four activities which consume disk resources: i) maintenance of the active and history files ii) maintenance of the overview hierarchy iii) writing out the articles themselves iv) scribbling to /var/log/news Whilst the latter is comparatively "cheap" as it simply extends an existing file (writes deferred by caching), the first three are best spread across separate spindles for the best resultant performance. Striping or concatenation will hurt more than help, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 20:01:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA02624 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02616 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14658; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (proff@localhost) by suburbia.net (8.7.4/Proff-950810) id OAA21556; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:59:33 +1100 From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199611210359.OAA21556@suburbia.net> Subject: WordPerfect 7.0? - use LyX instead To: brandon@glacier.cold.org (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:59:32 +1100 (EST) Cc: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, cfortin@ec.camitel.com, FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brandon Gillespie" at Nov 20, 96 02:46:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Wow...I'd like it, but $500 is sorta rich for my blood right now? How > > much for the student version? :-) > > I agree--I would love to have it--but 'vi' does just fine when price > compared to $500. > > -Brandon Gillespie Bah. Use LyX (very nice almost wysiwyg X11 front end to LaTeX). ftp://ftp.via.ecp.fr/pub/LyX/* -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ |Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | |proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | |proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | C7F81C2AA32D7D4E4D360A2ED2098E0D | +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 20:07:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA02844 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:07:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net ([198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02835 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) id XAA03022; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:06:31 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199611210406.XAA03022@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: wcarchive is DOWN. URGENT To: ulf@Lamb.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:06:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: eric@cdrom.com, tech@pooh.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611210330.TAA01170@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> from "Ulf Zimmermann" at Nov 20, 96 07:30:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > CRL called, wcarchive is down. The guy name at CRL is Arron 415-837-5300. > > > > Eric "E.T." Tremblay > > Walnut Creek CDROM > > eric@cdrom.com > > > > Is anyone doing something about it ? Is man power missing ? I am right now > still in Mountain View, if I can help. > We are working the wcarchive problem NOW, and it should be up in about 1/2 hour (it is currently 11:04 EST.) John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 20:08:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA02920 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (sdev.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02907 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.2/8.6.9) id PAA16769; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:07:43 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:07:43 +1100 From: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Cc: terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611210344.OAA10837@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611210344.OAA10837@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Nov 21, 1996 14:14:52 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > > Yes, I use it quite a bit, but in a base distribution I don't really > > see it as an appropriate tool. It is certainly easier that programming > > in, say, bourne shell, and probably significantly faster too. But I > > still think it is a mistake it being part of the base system. > > I think that there's a very important line to be drawn between "I > don't think I need it in the system" and "It should not be in the > system". Agreed. But there's also the distinction between "needed" and "desired". Certainly *I* regard Perl as an indispensible tool for what I do. I'm less certain that everyone else would regard it in the same light, which is why I still don't think it appropriate for a *base* distribution. > My point is that there are a sufficient number of people that consider > Perl a 'should-have' to justify its inclusion on those grounds. >From a more pragmatic standpoint, I disagree. Yes, lots of people want or need it in what they do, but whether it is *needed* to run/install/build the base system is a different question. Right now there is some dependance on perl (and using an outdated and unsupported version), but my worry is that it being there in the first place is more likely to increase that dependance. The point is not really whether perl4 disappears or not (it *must* do so eventually - it is, as I said, old and unsupported) but whether perl5 is needed in the base distribution. Perl5 is huge and is delivered with quite a deal of bloat. Too big for the small dependancies that currently exist. If we used perl and most the anciliary modules and the scripts which depended on it could not be so easily replaced (and I'll admit that sgmlfmt appears to be one of those), then it would be justified. > The latter point bears discussion; someone putting this point needs to > offer a counter to the benefits promised by the former. So far, most > of the arguments have been "because I don't think it should be" (which > counts for very little), or "because Perl keeps changing" (which has > been comprehensively refuted by Perl users I am inclined to trust). Yes, the "keeps changing" argument is indeed bogus. There are one or two minor syntactic changes, which later versions of perl have built-in warnings for are easily handled, certainly easily enough done for the scripts that are actually installed under -current. > Other arguments that have been offered for the latter in previous > discussions; "Perl is too big" (size is relative, disk is cheap), > "Perl would be too hard to track" (contrib scheme should fix this). > > I'm still open to argument on this; I just haven't heard a counter > that holds up under scrutiny. If all that was required for a proper perl5 distribution was the perl executable itself, I'd have no real argument. It is all of the unneeded (for the *base* distribution) cruft that comes with it that is the problem. Even perl4 has this problem to a lesser extent, but as I read it, this (size/unnecessary bloat problem) is the root of the reluctance to upgrade perl4 to perl5. Central to my argument is that perl4 is no longer viable. Either perl should be removed completely from the base distribution, or it should be upgraded to perl5. Personally, I favour removal, because I'm a purist (a self-admitted fault :-)). This is not to say that perl is not useful - *IT IS* - but that, like many other useful things, it should be an addition to the base system. Even in -current, we don't win very much from the expense of having it (again, with the exception of sgmlfmt). Regards, David Nugent, Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 20:28:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA04040 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA04035 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:28:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id OAA11100; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:57:17 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611210427.OAA11100@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: from David Nugent at "Nov 21, 96 03:07:43 pm" To: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:57:16 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Nugent stands accused of saying: > > > > I think that there's a very important line to be drawn between "I > > don't think I need it in the system" and "It should not be in the > > system". > > Agreed. But there's also the distinction between "needed" and > "desired". Certainly *I* regard Perl as an indispensible tool > for what I do. I'm less certain that everyone else would regard > it in the same light, which is why I still don't think it appropriate > for a *base* distribution. It's not a question of whether _everyone_ needs it, but whether a sufficient number of people need it. I think that so far the evidence indicates that this is the case. > > Yes, lots of people want or need it in what they do, but whether it > is *needed* to run/install/build the base system is a different > question. Right now there is some dependance on perl (and using an > outdated and unsupported version), but my worry is that it being > there in the first place is more likely to increase that dependance. If the only criteria for the 'base' system was whether the tool was required to build the system, FreeBSD would me much skinnier. I seriously doubt that anyone would consider that a useful criteria on which to judge something's "membership rights". > Perl5 is huge and is delivered with quite a deal of bloat. Too big > for the small dependancies that currently exist. If we used perl You are still thinking of Perl in the light of its use as support for other things in the system, rather than as a standard service for users. It is this latter case that most strongly argues for Perl in the tree, as with Tcl. > If all that was required for a proper perl5 distribution was the > perl executable itself, I'd have no real argument. It is all of > the unneeded (for the *base* distribution) cruft that comes with > it that is the problem. Even perl4 has this problem to a lesser > extent, but as I read it, this (size/unnecessary bloat problem) > is the root of the reluctance to upgrade perl4 to perl5. If the bloat is truly excessive, then it belongs in a seperate distribution (eg. perl-support) that can be added to the system if required. I seriously doubt whether the alleged 'bloat' would actually be significant in the big picture. I would hope that the growth of the "standard footprint" of FreeBSD would encourage the minimalist faction to actually extract their digits and do something about identifying the "core" of the system and making it a base component. I'm entirely in agreement with the basic principle, but I strongly believe that we need to incorporate mature and ubiquitous tools in as seamless and standard a fashion as possible. > David Nugent, Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 20:40:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA04458 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [206.222.77.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA04452 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA18626; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:39:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:39:11 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Mayo To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is FastVid implemented on XFree86? In-Reply-To: <199610280648.WAA00362@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Tnks, > Amancio > I was just wondering if you got a reply either way... I'm pretty sure it's not. I noticed, however, that if I run FastVid from a DOS boot, then do a "soft reboot = CTRL+ALT+DEL" the chipset/CPU isn't reset! So I get nice fast video with my 82450GX chipset PPro. Happy. However, on several occasions, it has caused AccleX, xdm, fvwm to core dump -- to the point that xdm wouldn't even start up again :-( If I do a hardware reset everything starts working again. Overall, _my_ system seems quite stable with the FastVid stuff turned on, but it does seem to be a problem some times... -Mark > > --------------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | RingZero Comp. vinyl.quickweb.com/mark | --------------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 20:57:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA05128 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:57:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA05122 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15253(15)>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:56:59 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177557>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:56:44 -0800 To: compland@ism.com.br (Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, zyang01@fiu.edu Subject: Re: socket.h In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Nov 96 16:26:01 PST." <199611210026.WAA15690@unix1.ism.com.br> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:56:32 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Nov20.205644pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You want to cast the sockaddr_in to a sockaddr, as in > if (connect(SocketDescriptor, (struct sockaddr *) &SocketInetAddr, >sizeof(SocketInetAddr)) < 0) You'll notice if you look carefully that "struct sockaddr" and "struct sockaddr_in" are the same size and the "family" and "length" fields overlap. I'd strongly reccommend "Unix Network Programming", by Richard Stevens, as a reference for networking programs like this. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 21:11:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05508 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05503 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:11:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA02932; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:11:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611210511.VAA02932@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Mark Mayo cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is FastVid implemented on XFree86? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:39:11 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:11:34 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Silence and on this front. I like your info and I will try it out over here. Is just that I rarely boot dos on this box . Tnks for the info! Amancio >From The Desk Of Mark Mayo : > On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > > Tnks, > > Amancio > > > > I was just wondering if you got a reply either way... I'm pretty sure it's > not. I noticed, however, that if I run FastVid from a DOS boot, then do a > "soft reboot = CTRL+ALT+DEL" the chipset/CPU isn't reset! > > So I get nice fast video with my 82450GX chipset PPro. Happy. However, on > several occasions, it has caused AccleX, xdm, fvwm to core dump -- to the > point that xdm wouldn't even start up again :-( If I do a hardware reset > everything starts working again. > > > Overall, _my_ system seems quite stable with the FastVid stuff turned on, > but it does seem to be a problem some times... > > -Mark > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | > | RingZero Comp. vinyl.quickweb.com/mark | > --------------------------------------------------- > "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." > - L. Peter Deutsch > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 21:24:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA06091 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06075 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:24:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.3/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id FAA18394; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:22:27 GMT Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:22:27 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Michael Smith cc: David Nugent , terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611210427.OAA11100@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > It's not a question of whether _everyone_ needs it, but whether a > sufficient number of people need it. I think that so far the evidence > indicates that this is the case. > I prefer having it in ports or a different distribution so that it can be excluded easier. The people who want it excluded include those who don't care about having perl 5.0 and those who would rather track it and configure it themselves. If it must be put in the base then can we replace perl 4.0 without causing an uproar? Also, can we agree on the options included? I really don't want to see 2 different releases of perl in the base distribution. Perl's size is significant, especially when you consider that it will be in the cvs tree, the installation, and the checked out sources. Double it if you have both 4.x and 5.x. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 21:52:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA07070 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07061 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id QAA11975; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:20:47 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611210550.QAA11975@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: from Michael Hancock at "Nov 21, 96 02:22:27 pm" To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:20:46 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Hancock stands accused of saying: > On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > > > It's not a question of whether _everyone_ needs it, but whether a > > sufficient number of people need it. I think that so far the evidence > > indicates that this is the case. > > I prefer having it in ports or a different distribution so that it can be > excluded easier. The people who want it excluded include those who don't > care about having perl 5.0 and those who would rather track it > and configure it themselves. If it's to be useful in the base system, there needs to be a segregation between the 'runtime' configuration and the 'development' configuration then. This is one for the Perl advocates to settle. > If it must be put in the base then can we replace perl 4.0 without causing > an uproar? Also, can we agree on the options included? I think that replacing Perl 4 would be trivial; the dependant components of the base system are known to work with perl5, and the general opinion is that little is significantly different. > Perl's size is significant, especially when you consider that it will be > in the cvs tree, the installation, and the checked out sources. Double it > if you have both 4.x and 5.x. There is no way that Perl 4 would be retained. Perl's size is not a real issue; people just need stop thinking that 5M is "big" 8) > Mike Hancock -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 22:32:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA08691 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA08647 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:32:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from zellion.cyberwind.com (zellion.cyberwind.com [199.4.109.223]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.2/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA14700; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:31:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611210631.WAA14700@shell.wco.com> From: "Jeffery T. White" To: "Chris Coleman" , Subject: Re: Ipx to ip routing Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:32:39 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > And we want to eliminate the need for so many ip addresses so that we > can get rid of all the ip address conflicts that we can't seem to trace > down. Unless you have more machines than IP numbers DHCP really is a pretty good solution. I set it up at work and it was great. Not only could you assign IP address that way but you can distribute default gateway, DNS, netmask and all kinds of other IP config data from the DHCP server. That way when you maybe change a name server or something you only have to update it in one place. We used the Windoze NT DHCP Service so I don't know first hand how the BSD ones are but I can only assume they are as good or better. The only down side of switching to DHCP is you have to reconfigure all the existing machines pretty much at once since your addresses are probably all over right now and the DHCP server will assign them sequentially from the blocks you allocate. Of course if users still insist on entering an address that will mess things up. Not as bad as before though because you will have the DHCP data from which you can get a list of all the machines with _legal_ addresses. The missing machines either haven't been turned on within the expiration period or are owned by users who require their little fingers to be broken :-)... | Jeffery T. White | email: zellion@cyberwind.com | | Cyberwind, The wind knows... | http://www.cyberwind.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Nov 20 23:00:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA09566 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hughes.net (mail.hughes.net [205.139.34.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09561 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from trailblazer.com ([205.139.43.19]) by mail.hughes.net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-13727) with SMTP id AAA22800 for <@mail.hughes.net:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:00:45 -0800 Received: by trailblazer.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id XAA08286; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:02:15 -0800 From: "Jon Morgan" Message-Id: <9611202302.ZM8284@terminus.trailblazer.com> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:02:14 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: vx driver problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I found problems in if_vx.c where the driver handles ifconfig link[012] flags. The driver is ANDing the index into the connector_table rather than the actual bit value out of the table. Here's the code for 2.1.6-RELEASE that fixes the problem: *** if_vx.c.orig Wed Nov 20 20:07:59 1996 --- if_vx.c Wed Nov 20 21:45:35 1996 *************** *** 355,365 **** * (if present on card or AUI if not). */ /* Set the xcvr. */ ! if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0 && sc->vx_connectors & CONNECTOR_AUI) { i = CONNECTOR_AUI; ! } else if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK1 && sc->vx_connectors & CONNECTOR_BNC) { i = CONNECTOR_BNC; ! } else if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK2 && sc->vx_connectors & CONNECTOR_UTP) { i = CONNECTOR_UTP; } else { i = sc->vx_connector; --- 355,365 ---- * (if present on card or AUI if not). */ /* Set the xcvr. */ ! if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0 && sc->vx_connectors & connector_table[CONNECTOR_AUI].bit) { i = CONNECTOR_AUI; ! } else if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK1 && sc->vx_connectors & connector_table[CONNECTOR_BNC].bit) { i = CONNECTOR_BNC; ! } else if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK2 && sc->vx_connectors & connector_table[CONNECTOR_UTP].bit) { i = CONNECTOR_UTP; } else { i = sc->vx_connector; and here's the equivalent code for 3.0-CURRENT (I havn't tested this, but it should be the same): *** if_vx.c.orig Wed Nov 20 20:07:59 1996 --- if_vx.c Wed Nov 20 21:45:35 1996 *************** *** 355,365 **** * (if present on card or AUI if not). */ /* Set the xcvr. */ ! if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0 && sc->vx_connectors & CONNECTOR_AUI) { i = CONNECTOR_AUI; ! } else if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK1 && sc->vx_connectors & CONNECTOR_BNC) { i = CONNECTOR_BNC; ! } else if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK2 && sc->vx_connectors & CONNECTOR_UTP) { i = CONNECTOR_UTP; } else { i = sc->vx_connector; --- 355,365 ---- * (if present on card or AUI if not). */ /* Set the xcvr. */ ! if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0 && sc->vx_connectors & connector_table[CONNECTOR_AUI].bit) { i = CONNECTOR_AUI; ! } else if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK1 && sc->vx_connectors & connector_table[CONNECTOR_BNC].bit) { i = CONNECTOR_BNC; ! } else if(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK2 && sc->vx_connectors & connector_table[CONNECTOR_UTP].bit) { i = CONNECTOR_UTP; } else { i = sc->vx_connector; From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 00:17:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA11907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA11902 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA16545; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:17:08 -0800 (PST) To: Christian Fortin cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:24:21 EST." Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:17:08 -0800 Message-ID: <16543.848564228@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > That's the 3th time that I talk with guy at Corel about WP 7.0. First, please don't spam so many lists at once - that's just bad manners and not encouraged at all. Thanks. Second, what you should tell Coral to do is send us a copy of the Linux version and we'll try to certify it for use under FreeBSD. I don't think that Coral should be pushed to do a FreeBSD version until we have a better idea of the size of our market since pushing them to do a port and then seeing it sell badly would be worse than no port at all. It would only screw us for a second chance. I would be happy if vendors with Linux versions of their products would give us a chance at certifying it under the emulator and, if it works, listing it as supported under FreeBSD as well (we will also have to improve our Linux library support, but that would be a natural side-effect of the certification process also). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 03:13:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA18143 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from coconut.blueberry.co.uk ([194.70.52.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA18136 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by coconut.blueberry.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) id LAA03854; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:08:21 GMT Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:08:21 +0000 From: nik@blueberry.co.uk (Nik Clayton) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Cc: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611210427.OAA11100@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Organization: Blueberry New Media In-Reply-To: <199611210427.OAA11100@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Nov 21, 1996 14:57:16 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > I'm entirely in agreement with the basic principle, but I strongly > believe that we need to incorporate mature and ubiquitous tools in > as seamless and standard a fashion as possible. Uh, /usr/ports? pkg_add? As far as I can see, FreeBSD currently has a few admin scripts written in Perl (which someone in this thread has already volunteered to re-write in C). And that's about the extent of it's requirement at the moment. If J. Random User wants to write a nifty adduser script (or whatever) in Perl, then great. Even better, encourage them to submit it as a port with a dependency on a particular Perl port. Or punt Perl (and other niceties) into a 'recommended' distribution (or something) and have the install say something like If you're new to Unix then you may want to look at the 'recommended-software' distribution. This is a collection of software pre-compiled that you will probably find immediately useful. Perl 5.00x Apache 1.1.1 Elm (or Pine, or whatever) Adduser [and so on] If you're more skilled with Unix, you may want to compile these programs yourself, using the 'ports' system. And if you really know what you're doing, you're probably already running 'ncftp ftp.perl.com/perl/latest.tar.gz' over in another virtual terminal. And then you could just have a single port that consists of just a man page and a bunch of dependencies on the other ports (as listed above). This man page describes the contents of the 'recommended' distribution, with pointers on how to get more information about it. Recommended(1) FreeBSD Reference Manual Recommended(1) NAME /usr/bin/perl - The Perl programming language /usr/libexec/apache - The Apache web server /usr/sbin/adduser - An easy way to add new users to the system . . . DESCRIPTION Perl Larry Wall's ubiquitous programming language. Great for scripts that handle lots of text, and often used in CGI programs for web pages. % man perl for more information. Apache Probably the best known free web server, with performance to match the best of the commercial servers. See the documentation in /usr/local/share/apache/doc. Adduser An interactive script for adding new users to the system. Written in Perl. Reading the script can be useful as an inkling to the power of Perl. % man adduser for more information. . . . and so on. Create a ports/recommended (or something) category into which stable versions of software go. ports/lang/perl might be at version 5.4 (fictitious example) but ports/recommended/perl stays at version 5.003 (or whatever) until everything else that depends on perl in the 'recommended' category has been re-written to work with the new version (assuming any re-writing is necessary). Thoughts. N -- --+=[ Blueberry Hill Blueberry New Media ]=+-- --+=[ http://www.blueberry.co.uk/ 1/9 Chelsea Harbour Design Centre, ]=+-- --+=[ WebMaster@blueberry.co.uk London, England, SW10 0XE ]=+-- --+=[ Ten-Thousand-Dimensional Web in Heaven and Net on Earth ]ENTP From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 04:19:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA20404 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 04:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA20392 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 04:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id WAA13171; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:47:24 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611211217.WAA13171@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: from Nik Clayton at "Nov 21, 96 11:08:21 am" To: nik@blueberry.co.uk (Nik Clayton) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:47:24 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nik Clayton stands accused of saying: > Michael Smith writes: > > I'm entirely in agreement with the basic principle, but I strongly > > believe that we need to incorporate mature and ubiquitous tools in > > as seamless and standard a fashion as possible. > > Uh, /usr/ports? pkg_add? *snort* The ports/packages collection is fine as far as it goes, but you are still failing to understand what I'm on about. I'm talking about a _basic_system_service_, like the compiler or sendmail. > As far as I can see, FreeBSD currently has a few admin scripts written in > Perl (which someone in this thread has already volunteered to re-write > in C). And that's about the extent of it's requirement at the moment. What is this blinkered mentality that seems to think that the only purpose of a system component is to perpetuate the system? Is everyone disappearing inwards through their own navels? > If J. Random User wants to write a nifty adduser script (or whatever) in > Perl, then great. Even better, encourage them to submit it as a port > with a dependency on a particular Perl port. Great. Have you been watching the "CVSup is evil because it requires the monster Modula-3" thread resurfacing every few weeks? Do you have any idea how unwieldy the ports collection is if you don't have a (n outdated) copy handy on CDrom? I try to stay reasonably current at work, but got _seriously_ bitten this week with a rush to get a couple of notebook systems out the door for on-the-road demo systems; it's very hard to explain to an anxious sales jock that you have to download a pile of "oops just changed" distfiles from the other side of the planet so that they can deal with whatever printer the customer might have, or whatever. > Or punt Perl (and other niceties) into a 'recommended' distribution (or > something) and have the install say something like Having a "core binaries" distribution, which contained just enought to boot the system and operate the basic system services, and then putting everything else in the "basic system services" bundle (compiler, includes, interpreters, etc) would make sense. Drawing arbitrary lines based on the phase of the moon just doesn't cut it. If you like, I am respectfully offering the gauntlet to the anti-bloatists, and suggesting that they nominate what they feel to be the core of the system, and then do something about it. > If you're new to Unix then you may want to look at the > 'recommended-software' distribution. This is a collection of > software pre-compiled that you will probably find immediately > useful. Completely the wrong way around. The _advanced_ user should be offered the opportunity to _not_ install these things. The "default installation" should provide all the services that can be reasonably and _manageably_ be provided. (This is a key requirement, and is why I am trying to publically finger people to maintain the proposed Perl.) We _do_ need to address the "kitchen sink" issue, and we need a solution to handle _both_ the 'with' and 'without' cases. > And if you really know what you're doing, you're probably already > running 'ncftp ftp.perl.com/perl/latest.tar.gz' over in another > virtual terminal. No. What you want is to be able to say "I can write my Excellent New Application in Perl and know that it can be installed on any 'normally' configured FreeBSD system without significant user grief." What we're talking about is making it _easier_ to work with FreeBSD from positions other than the arrogant myopic power-user's point of view. > This man page describes the contents of the 'recommended' distribution, > with pointers on how to get more information about it. Yuck. Maybe a shellscript (installed when the "core binaries" are) that writes a message to stderr (and maybe calls 'logger' too) linked in place of all the binaries containd in the "basic system services" distribution, observing that said distribution is required. > Create a ports/recommended (or something) category into which stable versions > of software go. ports/lang/perl might be at version 5.4 (fictitious example) > but ports/recommended/perl stays at version 5.003 (or whatever) until > everything else that depends on perl in the 'recommended' category has been > re-written to work with the new version (assuming any re-writing is > necessary). Aside from a camouflaged 'anti-bloat' stance, you're not actually saying much new. There's nothing significantly different from the 'contrib' model there, except that it's extra work to install. > Thoughts. Appreciated, even if I don't agree with you. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 05:00:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA22189 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from lassie.eunet.fi (lassie.eunet.fi [192.26.119.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA22184 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:00:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from marathon.tekla.fi by lassie.eunet.fi with SMTP id AA11757 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:58:03 +0200 Received: from poveri.tekla.fi by marathon.tekla.fi (5.65/20-jun-90) id AA11880; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:57:59 +0200 From: sja@tekla.fi (Sakari Jalovaara) Received: by poveri.tekla.fi; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/20Aug96-0557PM) id AA03011; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:57:58 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:57:58 +0200 Message-Id: <9611211257.AA03011@poveri.tekla.fi> To: phk@critter.tfs.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help identifying a compressed file Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can anybody recognize this fileformat ? > > It's some kind of MS/DOS compressed file, but I don't know what program > were used to compress it :-( > >00000000 53 5a 44 44 88 f0 27 33 41 00 88 1c 03 00 ff 3f |SZDD..'3A......?| >00000010 5f 03 00 c3 35 00 00 7d ff f8 f0 88 1c 03 00 b3 |_...5..}........| Do an altavista search on the magic number "SZDD". ---------^^^^^ You'll find a bunch of binary files like the one you have. Look for READMEs near them. You are bound to find one that tells how to unpack. ++sja From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 05:11:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA22571 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA22559 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:11:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from uplink.eng.umd.edu (uplink.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.181]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA12308; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by uplink.eng.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02923; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:11:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: uplink.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:11:15 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@uplink.eng.umd.edu To: Michael Smith cc: Nik Clayton , davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611211217.WAA13171@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > If you like, I am respectfully offering the gauntlet to the > anti-bloatists, and suggesting that they nominate what they feel to be > the core of the system, and then do something about it. On this point I can agree. If the folks who are concerned about bloat feel strongly enough about that, why couldn't we have a minimal distribution *that they have to maintain* for them? Then they could also field the questions from users on why different things don't work on their boxes, and the rest of us could stop hearing about bloat. I would personally kinda like to folk some gui stuff into the distribution, so things could get even more friendly, and I don't mean initial install, either. This would be absolutely impossible in today's one distribution paradigm. Having two dists would kinda free everyone up. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 05:42:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA23641 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:42:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA23632 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA21092; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:39:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199611211339.OAA21092@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:39:15 +0100 (MET) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nik@blueberry.co.uk, davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Nov 21, 96 08:11:15 am From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Chuck Robey who wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > > > If you like, I am respectfully offering the gauntlet to the > > anti-bloatists, and suggesting that they nominate what they feel to be > > the core of the system, and then do something about it. > > On this point I can agree. If the folks who are concerned about bloat > feel strongly enough about that, why couldn't we have a minimal > distribution *that they have to maintain* for them? Then they could also > field the questions from users on why different things don't work on their > boxes, and the rest of us could stop hearing about bloat. We allready have that system and have had for long, the base distribution and ports. You just make it automatic to install all of ports in the bloated version, so now you have have the ball :) If we are going to have all this **** in the base distribution I want names on a list of people _REPONSIBLE_ for each and every package, so I know _EXACTLY_ who to yell at when it fails or falls to far behind. Otherwise core is going to get bashed over and over for not doings thing right. I'll take my share of bashing, but _NOT_ because somebody decided to make (favorit program de jur) part of the base system. > I would personally kinda like to folk some gui stuff into the > distribution, so things could get even more friendly, and I don't mean > initial install, either. This would be absolutely impossible in today's > one distribution paradigm. Having two dists would kinda free everyone up. Yeah, lets add open-look, xforms, qt and all those I forgot (or didn't know about) to the system, then everybody can have thier pick, and we'll keep the disk & cdrom manufactures happy too :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 06:05:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA24990 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:05:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA24983; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:05:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id AAA13504; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:35:03 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611211405.AAA13504@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611211339.OAA21092@ra.dkuug.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at "Nov 21, 96 02:39:15 pm" To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:35:02 +1030 (CST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nik@blueberry.co.uk, davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sos@FreeBSD.org stands accused of saying: > > If we are going to have all this **** in the base distribution I want > names on a list of people _REPONSIBLE_ for each and every package, so > I know _EXACTLY_ who to yell at when it fails or falls to far > behind. This is a crucial point, and I am in complete agreement here. > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 06:12:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA25232 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:12:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25226 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id OAA20897 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:12:08 GMT Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:11:31 +0000 Received: from tees.elsevier.co.uk (tees.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.60]) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id OAA24918; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:11:19 GMT Received: (from dpr@localhost) by tees.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.2/8.8.0) id OAA02575; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:10:09 GMT To: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611210344.OAA10837@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> From: Paul Richards Date: 21 Nov 1996 14:10:08 +0000 In-Reply-To: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au's message of Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:07:43 +1100 Message-ID: <57sp638rpb.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> Lines: 59 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) writes: > Agreed. But there's also the distinction between "needed" and > "desired". Certainly *I* regard Perl as an indispensible tool > for what I do. I'm less certain that everyone else would regard > it in the same light, which is why I still don't think it appropriate > for a *base* distribution. Hmm, following on from a previous post this is a kind of interesting argument these days. I *never* use sed or awk because I've forgotten how to do things in them quickly since I now always knock something out quicker in perl. For anything more involved than a quick script hack then I'd always choose perl anyway. So, for me perl is needed and sed/awk (and even sh) could go away. Perl does it all much better. (Implicitly invoke your own smiley before getting wound up about this, though I am essentially serious, I never use any of the above any more and it's been quite a few years since I worked on a system that didn't have perl). > The point is not really whether perl4 disappears or not (it *must* do > so eventually - it is, as I said, old and unsupported) but whether > perl5 is needed in the base distribution. Well, I wasn't that keen on moving perl into the distribution at the time. The few scripts we currently have could have been written in C without much effort but we should either decide to rip perl out completely or accept Perl5 as an integral part of the system and make more use of it. > > Other arguments that have been offered for the latter in previous > > discussions; "Perl is too big" (size is relative, disk is cheap), > > "Perl would be too hard to track" (contrib scheme should fix this). > > > > I'm still open to argument on this; I just haven't heard a counter > > that holds up under scrutiny. > > If all that was required for a proper perl5 distribution was the > perl executable itself, I'd have no real argument. It is all of The "uneeded" bloat is not required to run perl, it's just assumed to be there by a lot of scripts. If our system scripts didn't need it we wouldn't have to install it. I've always felt that we should have a modular install mechanism like Sun used to have in 4.1.3 (not sure about Solaris, never installed it personally). Each module was self contained, there was a base system and then you added things like the man module, which included all the man binaries and the pages. We could have perl module, which included perl and all the perl scripts. As long as the scripts are something can be left out (which currently they could be) then that'd work. If you could live without the adduser script etc then you wouldn't need to install that module. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 06:31:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA25894 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (eel.dataplex.net [208.2.87.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25889 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19663 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:31:43 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199611211217.WAA13171@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:29:05 -0600 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey replies: >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > >> If you like, I am respectfully offering the gauntlet to the >> anti-bloatists, and suggesting that they nominate what they feel to be >> the core of the system, and then do something about it. > >On this point I can agree. If the folks who are concerned about bloat >feel strongly enough about that, why couldn't we have a minimal >distribution *that they have to maintain* for them? Then they could also >field the questions from users on why different things don't work on their >boxes, and the rest of us could stop hearing about bloat. > >I would personally kinda like to folk some gui stuff into the >distribution, so things could get even more friendly, and I don't mean >initial install, either. This would be absolutely impossible in today's >one distribution paradigm. Having two dists would kinda free everyone up. I don't agree that we have "one distribution". There are already separate pieces for "games", "share", "source", etc. There is no operational problem with having a large number of distribution subsets. There is little wrong with the "package" mechanism. On top of that, we need to add some "super packages" that are just dummys for various collections like "minimal", "standard", "the_works". Once you get a Un*x system running, "make" can easily figure out what you need to do and how to best do it. It is easy to then write a "custom" configuration and let it do its thing. The problem occurs when you have someone "just starting". Perhaps they don't have direct access to the CD OR the net. We need to "KISS" the answer to "Which files do I need?". As for the "core team" wishing to cop-out on keeping things up-to-date, they need to open their eyes. The SYSTEM is much more than the "core". L***us has good control on the "core" of that system. However, many of the distributions are weak because the group compiling a distribution does a poor job on the rest of it. We don't want to fall into the same boat. I think that it is ESSENTIAL that we keep the quality of the distribution high. That means that everyone who contributes to the distribution must work as a team. Those who think that they can ignore the rest of the problem simply by calling themselves "core" are wearing blinders. IMHO, they are also working against "team spirit" by separating themselves from the rest. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 06:32:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA25976 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:32:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ec.camitel.com (ec.camitel.com [206.231.123.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25971 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cfortin@localhost) by ec.camitel.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA03595; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:31:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.4 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611210359.OAA21556@suburbia.net> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:30:00 -0500 (EST) Organization: =?us-ascii?Q?=C9lectro-Conception?= From: Christian Fortin To: Julian Assange Subject: RE: WordPerfect 7.0? - use LyX instead Cc: (Brandon Gillespie) , handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, FREEBSD-HACKERS@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I use LyX presently, it's good, but I am alone in the world... And I speek French, and the ispeel french is not a hi power webster... On 21-Nov-96 Julian Assange wrote: >>> > Wow...I'd like it, but $500 is sorta rich for my blood right now? How >> > much for the student version? :-) >> >> I agree--I would love to have it--but 'vi' does just fine when price >> compared to $500. >> >> -Brandon Gillespie > >Bah. Use LyX (very nice almost wysiwyg X11 front end to LaTeX). > >ftp://ftp.via.ecp.fr/pub/LyX/* > > >-- >"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims > may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons > than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may > sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who > torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with > the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ >+---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ >|Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | >|proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | >|proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | C7F81C2AA32D7D4E4D360A2ED2098E0D | >+---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Christian Fortin Date: 11/21/96 Heure: 09:30:00 ##################################################--------+ Electro-Conception tel:(418) 872-6641 | 3665 Croisset fax:(418) 872-9198 | Quebec,P.Q. www.ec.camitel.com/ec | Canada ftp.ec.camitel.com | G1P-1L4 | /----|<|----WM--|(--J --------------------------L---WM-----< \----1 --- - From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 06:38:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA26240 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:38:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (sdev.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA26230 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:38:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.2/8.6.9) id BAA17772; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:36:17 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:36:14 +1100 From: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611210344.OAA10837@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <57sp638rpb.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <57sp638rpb.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk>; from Paul Richards on Nov 21, 1996 14:10:08 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards writes: > > The point is not really whether perl4 disappears or not (it *must* do > > so eventually - it is, as I said, old and unsupported) but whether > > perl5 is needed in the base distribution. > > Well, I wasn't that keen on moving perl into the distribution at the > time. The few scripts we currently have could have been written in C > without much effort but we should either decide to rip perl out > completely or accept Perl5 as an integral part of the system and make > more use of it. Yep. That's a pretty good summary of where I'm coming from. And I believe - purely from observation - that the concern about "bloat" is the real reason why this has not happened to date. My stated preference as to whether or not perl5 was included was more a side-comment than anything else. Since this point seems be causing most of the "noise" in this discussion, I'll refrain from touching that topic again. :) Perl4 is dead, and has been for quite some time. As a result, most third-party scripts require 5.00x anyway, and any developer using Perl is using perl5.xxx these days, so its usefulness as a system component is very, very limited, whether it is provided as part of the base operating system, an additional module or as a port. Regards, David Nugent, Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 06:55:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA26847 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from guardian.fortress.org (fortress.org [199.84.158.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26830 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:55:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from andrew@localhost) by guardian.fortress.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA05462; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:56:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:56:46 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Webster Reply-To: andrew@pubnix.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help identifying a compressed file In-Reply-To: <9611211257.AA03011@poveri.tekla.fi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Sakari Jalovaara wrote: > > Can anybody recognize this fileformat ? > > > > It's some kind of MS/DOS compressed file, but I don't know what program > > were used to compress it :-( > > > >00000000 53 5a 44 44 88 f0 27 33 41 00 88 1c 03 00 ff 3f |SZDD..'3A......?| > >00000010 5f 03 00 c3 35 00 00 7d ff f8 f0 88 1c 03 00 b3 |_...5..}........| > > > Do an altavista search on the magic number "SZDD". ---------^^^^^ > > You'll find a bunch of binary files like the one you have. Look for > READMEs near them. You are bound to find one that tells how to unpack. Yup looks like files that need to be EXPANDED with MS EXPAND. > ++sja > Andrew Webster andrew@pubnix.net PubNIX Montreal Connected to the world Branche au monde P.O. Box 147 Cote Saint Luc, Quebec H4V 2Y3 tel 514.990.5911 http://www.pubnix.net fax 514.990.9443 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 07:30:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA28817 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:30:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ravenock.cybercity.dk (disn1.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA28801 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:30:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ravenock.cybercity.dk (8.8.2/8.7.3) id QAA01142; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:31:23 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611211531.QAA01142@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:31:12 +0100 (MET) From: "Soren Schmidt" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 21, 96 08:29:05 am From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Richard Wackerbarth who wrote: > > As for the "core team" wishing to cop-out on keeping things up-to-date, > they need to open their eyes. The SYSTEM is much more than the "core". > L***us has good control on the "core" of that system. However, many of the > distributions are weak because the group compiling a distribution does a > poor job on the rest of it. We don't want to fall into the same boat. I > think that it is ESSENTIAL that we keep the quality of the distribution > high. That means that everyone who contributes to the distribution must > work as a team. Those who think that they can ignore the rest of the > problem simply by calling themselves "core" are wearing blinders. IMHO, > they are also working against "team spirit" by separating themselves from > the rest. Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? The reason I am picky about what goes in and what does not, is simply that core is the entity that is going to get blamed/flamed/kicked when things are not up to snuff. There is only so much we can have on our platters, if things are not going to melt down. I (me personally) think we have reached if not exceeded that limit allready, and getting even more things into the game, be it small things or huge systems need a _LOT_ of consideration. What we should do is delegate _RESPONSIBILITY_ of certain areas of the system (ports is sortof allready delegated) to individuals or groups that take this _SERIOUSLY_ and does a job at it. Now the problem is to find these individuals or groups, as each time it gets to that, all of a sudden NOBODY is left of the horde that screamed for some or other feature. I know most of you have fulltime jobs etc etc, but so does most of core, we just do it because its fun, and because we think it should be done, but _DONT_ blame us for not doing enough already, that gets you in my black book real fast :( I have a very good example, I stated some month back that I'd take reponsibility of the atapi/ide driver and do a rewrite, because there was ALOT of talk about how miserable our current implementation was. I also stated that in order to do that I needed some samples of atapi/ide equipment as I dont have the funding for doing that (and given I had I'd buy SCSI :) ) but I didn't get ONE single reponse of that kind, no sir, but I got alot of "let me test it, gimme, gimme, gimme". So there you are, as long as I keep giving out of my resources everything is fine, but when I ask for help, be it equipment or programmer time, there's complete silence. So... when you guys come tell me I'm not doing enough, or not doing it right, and should do more, but dont want to participate except as consumers, well..... Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? or is there silence again this time ?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 07:45:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29422 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:45:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from netdev.comsys.com (COMSYS.COM [192.94.236.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29417 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:45:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mobile1 (ptp20.sopris.net [206.168.232.51]) by netdev.comsys.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA24887 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:57:44 GMT Message-ID: <3294791F.2BD6@aspn.net> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:45:35 -0700 From: alex huppenthal Reply-To: alex@aspn.net Organization: AIR/AIX X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Device driver development Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have several device drivers to create for FreeBSD. If you have any pointers for a newbie just getting into writing drivers for FreeBSD please respond. We've developed a number of high performance communications boards for FreeBSD. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 07:53:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29912 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:53:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from inner.cortx.com (root@inner.cortx.com [205.197.61.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29905 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from costa@localhost) by inner.cortx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA01970; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:49:53 GMT Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:49:53 +0000 () From: Costa To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: any suggestions? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I get this error message when i try viewing man pages. _________ Formatting page, please wait...groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `ascii' Done. _________ Any quick remedies? Thanks, Costa ==================C=O=R=T=E=X==C=O=M=M=U=N=I=C=A=T=I=O=N=S================== Costa J Morris - Partner Full Service Internet Access http://www.cortx.com Interactive CGI Scripting costa@cortx.com Internet Consulting 201-567-2297 Web Design ============================================================================ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 08:22:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA01630 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01618; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:22:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA24671; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:21:50 GMT Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:22:03 +0000 Received: from tees.elsevier.co.uk (tees.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.60]) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA05973; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:21:59 GMT Received: (from dpr@localhost) by tees.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.2/8.8.0) id QAA02933; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:20:47 GMT To: sos@FreeBSD.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611211531.QAA01142@ravenock.cybercity.dk> From: Paul Richards Date: 21 Nov 1996 16:20:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: Soren Schmidt's message of Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:31:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <57n2wb8lnl.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> Lines: 33 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Soren Schmidt writes: > I have a very good example, I stated some month back that I'd > take reponsibility of the atapi/ide driver and do a rewrite, > because there was ALOT of talk about how miserable our current > implementation was. I also stated that in order to do that I > needed some samples of atapi/ide equipment as I dont have the > funding for doing that (and given I had I'd buy SCSI :) ) > but I didn't get ONE single reponse of that kind, no sir, but > I got alot of "let me test it, gimme, gimme, gimme". C'mon. You make valid point generally but this last paragraph is silly. I'm not surprised that you haven't received any hardware. People don't happen to have kit just sitting there doing nothing, it's generally all they've got and they can't just send it off to some developer somewhere, I seem to remember your conditions regarding their return weren't very encouraging either. This is even more the case for people with IDE kit (no offense implied to anyone here) since it's generally budget kit so people aren't going to send off hardware they've struggled to save for. I think this is a very unfair generalisation, *most* FreeBSD users are on tight budgets and those that aren't are SCSI shops anyway and I tend to find that SCSI folks would rather see IDE die :-) I'd be encouraged by the fact that a lot of people were willing to volunteer their time to test it. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 08:55:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA05317 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.skipstone.com (root@GATEWAY.SKIPSTONE.COM [198.214.10.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA05311; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:54:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from bugs.skipstone.com (bugs.skipstone.com [204.69.236.2]) by gateway.skipstone.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA26198; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:54:50 -0600 Received: from [204.69.236.50] (hotapplepie.skipstone.com [204.69.236.50]) by bugs.skipstone.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA29084; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:54:46 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611211531.QAA01142@ravenock.cybercity.dk> References: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 21, 96 08:29:05 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:54:44 -0600 To: sos@FreeBSD.org From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >In reply to Richard Wackerbarth who wrote: >> >> As for the "core team" wishing to cop-out on keeping things up-to-date, >> they need to open their eyes. The SYSTEM is much more than the "core". >Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? > >The reason I am picky about what goes in and what does not, is simply >that core is the entity that is going to get blamed/flamed/kicked when >things are not up to snuff. >What we should do is delegate _RESPONSIBILITY_ of certain areas of >the system (ports is sortof allready delegated) to individuals or >groups that take this _SERIOUSLY_ and does a job at it. >Now the problem is to find these individuals or groups, as each >time it gets to that, all of a sudden NOBODY is left of the >horde that screamed for some or other feature. >Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? > or is there silence again this time ?? I suggest that you reconsider your (core) willingness to delegate. I AM doing some chores which, I assure you, some of the "customers" consider important. I HAVE volounteered to take on some things and been rebuffed in my efforts. In any case, by delegating certain areas, you are defacto adding those individuals to the (now expanded) "core". My comment about dodging the consequences by attempting to distance yourself from the problem still applies. It is analogous to the situation of the engineering staff being smeared with the same brush as the manufacturing and marketing staffs. Although one group did an excellent job on their part, it will never be recognized if the overall impression of the total package is poor. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 09:00:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA05589 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ravenock.cybercity.dk (disn53.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA05575; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ravenock.cybercity.dk (8.8.2/8.7.3) id SAA01512; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:01:06 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611211701.SAA01512@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:01:06 +0100 (MET) From: "Soren Schmidt" Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <57n2wb8lnl.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Nov 21, 96 04:20:46 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Paul Richards who wrote: > > > Soren Schmidt writes: > > > I have a very good example, I stated some month back that I'd > > take reponsibility of the atapi/ide driver and do a rewrite, > > because there was ALOT of talk about how miserable our current > > implementation was. I also stated that in order to do that I > > needed some samples of atapi/ide equipment as I dont have the > > funding for doing that (and given I had I'd buy SCSI :) ) > > but I didn't get ONE single reponse of that kind, no sir, but > > I got alot of "let me test it, gimme, gimme, gimme". > > C'mon. You make valid point generally but this last paragraph is > silly. I'm not surprised that you haven't received any > hardware. People don't happen to have kit just sitting there doing > nothing, it's generally all they've got and they can't just send it > off to some developer somewhere, I seem to remember your conditions > regarding their return weren't very encouraging either. This is even > more the case for people with IDE kit (no offense implied to anyone > here) since it's generally budget kit so people aren't going to send > off hardware they've struggled to save for. > > I think this is a very unfair generalisation, *most* FreeBSD users are > on tight budgets and those that aren't are SCSI shops anyway and I > tend to find that SCSI folks would rather see IDE die :-) Catch-22... > I'd be encouraged by the fact that a lot of people were willing to > volunteer their time to test it. Sure, but it doesn't work that way unfortunately... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 09:13:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06307 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:13:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ravenock.cybercity.dk (disn57.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.57]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06291; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:13:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ravenock.cybercity.dk (8.8.2/8.7.3) id SAA01528; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:14:43 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:14:28 +0100 (MET) From: "Soren Schmidt" Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 21, 96 10:54:44 am From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Richard Wackerbarth who wrote: > > >Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? > > or is there silence again this time ?? > > I suggest that you reconsider your (core) willingness to delegate. > I AM doing some chores which, I assure you, some of the "customers" > consider important. You are ?? > I HAVE volounteered to take on some things and been rebuffed in my efforts. Really, maybe what you wanted to do, wasn't what needed to be done ?? > In any case, by delegating certain areas, you are defacto adding those > individuals to the (now expanded) "core". No, I'm not, core is big enough allready, but we need core to be more of a governing/directionshowing entity, instead of a poor workhorse.. Like it or not, there has to be rules (like in the real world out there), and they should be followed. If we have X developers working in Y different directions, we have lost the game. So if one want's to participate, one has to follow the rules, simple as that... > My comment about dodging the > consequences by attempting to distance yourself from the problem still > applies. It is analogous to the situation of the engineering staff being > smeared with the same brush as the manufacturing and marketing staffs. > Although one group did an excellent job on their part, it will never be > recognized if the overall impression of the total package is poor. I guess we should stop here as we are not going anywhere, and I'm using valuable time trying to explain things, where I should be producing code/fixes, which btw is considerably more rewarding than this.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 09:24:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06849 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06833 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:24:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by jump.net (8.7.3/BERK-6.8.11) id LAA00409; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:23:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:23:06 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Crites To: Bill Fenner cc: "Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: socket.h In-Reply-To: <96Nov20.205644pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Bill Fenner wrote: > I'd strongly reccommend "Unix Network Programming", by Richard Stevens, as > a reference for networking programs like this. I'm *very* glad to see this reference given. I've been lurking on several of the FreeBSD lists for about a week or so (we are starting an isp company, and will be using FreeBSD as the os). I've done unix programming for about a decade, and have found Richard Stevens' books to be invaluable references. I fear many people might pass over his book(s) because of the price, opting for the cheap(est|er) ones. But a cost/usage puts them as some of the best values I have... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 09:30:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA07125 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07116 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09054 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:30:47 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id SAA24806 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:30:20 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.2/keltia-uucp-2.9) id SAA18057; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:30:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:30:36 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611210550.QAA11975@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2686 In-Reply-To: <199611210550.QAA11975@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Nov 21, 1996 16:20:46 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Michael Smith: > There is no way that Perl 4 would be retained. Perl's size is not a real > issue; people just need stop thinking that 5M is "big" 8) It is not just 5 MB of source. It is just that we have to carefully separate what's in the base Perl tree and what will be added after by the administrator. Fortunately, Perl has everything we need for that but it is tricky to do it right. The @INC path is by default: Base Perl tree 1. /usr/local/lib/perl5/i386-freebsd/5.00308 2. /usr/local/lib/perl5 We'll have to find the proper place for them in /usr/lib{exec,data}/perl and /usr/share/perl because it has a mixture of .so (binary) and .pm/.al (text). Or we could keep all these in /usr/lib/perl (much easier even if it probably violates hier(7) a bit). Add-on packages 3. /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/i386-freebsd 4. /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl 5. . -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #28: Sun Nov 10 13:37:41 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 09:33:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA07206 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (root@cyclone.degnet.baynet.de [194.95.214.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07180 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:32:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from neuron (ppp4 [194.95.214.134]) by cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA25253 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:39:36 +0100 Message-ID: <3294ACC5.5489@degnet.baynet.de> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:25:57 -0100 From: Darius Moos Reply-To: moos@degnet.baynet.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, following this discussion the last days, i was wondering if anyone got "undump" compiled ? I've searched the archives and Nate said "it's not hard" but i can not figure it out on my own. The ports for TeX in FreeBSD-2.1.5 does not have it. The unexec-function of emacs is also not trivial to get to compile. Any help how to compile undump is highly appreciated. TIA Darius Moos. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 09:45:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA07751 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com ([207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07743; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA28802; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:44:07 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199611211744.LAA28802@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:44:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nik@blueberry.co.uk, davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611211339.OAA21092@ra.dkuug.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at "Nov 21, 96 02:39:15 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sos@FreeBSD.org wrote: --SNIP-- > > If we are going to have all this **** in the base distribution I want > names on a list of people _REPONSIBLE_ for each and every package, so > I know _EXACTLY_ who to yell at when it fails or falls to far > behind. Otherwise core is going to get bashed over and over for not > doings thing right. I'll take my share of bashing, but _NOT_ because > somebody decided to make (favorit program de jur) part of the base system. I am the Perl person unless someone stands forth. I brought 4.036 in back in 2.0 and have been waiting for the wrangling to be done with before I bring in 5.003/4. I have no problem doing this. I also need to "REMOVE" the current info in the tree and update to the latest. No big deal, except for the flamage I would catch. > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Next point, people are jumping on Perl about how we have so few system utils based on it it should go, where are the utils based on TCL? (And as for incompatiable versions... Do all the ports work with our version of TCL?) Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 09:51:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA07961 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com ([207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07954 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA28837 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:50:12 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199611211750.LAA28837@main.gbdata.com> Subject: New mailing list - CVS-Alert??? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:50:11 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I would like to propose a new mailing list. It would be called cvs-alert and wuold be for those times that someone makes a commit that requires either massive changes to way something is done or re-compiles of programs. Lets face it, when someone is getting all of the lists or a large sub-portion it can be hard to catch little messages at the end of commits telling you to do this or that. Yea or Nay? Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 09:54:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA08115 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.skipstone.com (root@GATEWAY.SKIPSTONE.COM [198.214.10.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08095; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from bugs.skipstone.com (bugs.skipstone.com [204.69.236.2]) by gateway.skipstone.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA06332; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:53:47 -0600 Received: from [204.69.236.50] (hotapplepie.skipstone.com [204.69.236.50]) by bugs.skipstone.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29320; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:53:50 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> References: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 21, 96 10:54:44 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:53:49 -0600 To: sos@FreeBSD.org From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >In reply to Richard Wackerbarth who wrote: >> >> >Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? >> > or is there silence again this time ?? >> >> I suggest that you reconsider your (core) willingness to delegate. >> I AM doing some chores which, I assure you, some of the "customers" >> consider important. > >You are ?? Yes, but perhaps YOU are one of those that think that "writing new code" is the only worthwhile contribution. :-( >> I HAVE volounteered to take on some things and been rebuffed in my efforts. > >Really, maybe what you wanted to do, wasn't what needed to be done ?? Oh! I think that there was some concensus that it NEEDS to be done. It is just that the "core" is unwilling to delegate the responsibility to me. >> In any case, by delegating certain areas, you are defacto adding those >> individuals to the (now expanded) "core". > >No, I'm not, core is big enough allready, but we need core to be more >of a governing/directionshowing entity, instead of a poor workhorse.. The Board of Directors still get blamed when the company goes bankrupt. The upper level managers are also viewed in poor light. >Like it or not, there has to be rules (like in the real world out >there), and they should be followed. If we have X developers working >in Y different directions, we have lost the game. So if one want's >to participate, one has to follow the rules, simple as that... Yes, but your "rules" have to take into consideration the fact that this is (almost exclusively) unpaid labor. If you do not generate a situation where an individual gets to work onan area that he desires, he can easily choose to simply not contribute. Don't get me wrong. I am all for rules. However, they cut both ways. To be successful, you need to take into consideration reasonable goals and deadlines. But be careful, if you make the rules too unworkable, you eliminate too many participants. If, as it appears to some of us, you have one set of rules for insiders and another set for outsiders, you decrease the desirability of participation. Remember that the only real attribute that distinguishes many to the two populations is that the "insiders" got to this project first (and then locked the door?) >> My comment about dodging the >> consequences by attempting to distance yourself from the problem still >> applies. >I guess we should stop here as we are not going anywhere, and I'm >using valuable time trying to explain things, where I should be >producing code/fixes, which btw is considerably more rewarding than >this.... Perhaps you should consider that in the light of your " we need core to be more of a governing/directionshowing entity..." statement. Successful managers often do not have time for "doing" the nitty-gritty. They MUST delegate. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 10:21:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA09436 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:21:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from coconut.blueberry.co.uk ([194.70.52.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09424 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:21:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by coconut.blueberry.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) id SAA00919; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:21:09 GMT Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:21:09 +0000 From: nik@blueberry.co.uk (Nik Clayton) To: adonai@jump.net (Lee Crites) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: socket.h References: <96Nov20.205644pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Organization: Blueberry New Media In-Reply-To: ; from Lee Crites on Nov 21, 1996 11:23:06 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lee Crites writes: > On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Bill Fenner wrote: > > I'd strongly reccommend "Unix Network Programming", by Richard Stevens, as > > a reference for networking programs like this. > > I'm *very* glad to see this reference given. In which case you'll probably be overjoyed with this URL http://www.noao.edu/~rstevens/ All sorts of useful information from the man himself. N -- --+=[ Blueberry Hill Blueberry New Media ]=+-- --+=[ http://www.blueberry.co.uk/ 1/9 Chelsea Harbour Design Centre, ]=+-- --+=[ WebMaster@blueberry.co.uk London, England, SW10 0XE ]=+-- --+=[ Ten-Thousand-Dimensional Web in Heaven and Net on Earth ]ENTP From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 10:55:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA10946 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:55:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from meter.eng.uci.edu (root@meter.eng.uci.edu [128.200.85.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA10939 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from newport.ece.uci.edu by meter.eng.uci.edu (8.7.6) id KAA02884; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:55:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by newport.ece.uci.edu (8.7.6) id KAA29654; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:55:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611211855.KAA29654@newport.ece.uci.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Pentium Pro status Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:55:36 -0800 From: Steven Wallace Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wanted some input regarding Pentium Pro machines. Has anyone had any problems with the hardware and/or using it with FreeBSD? Are there any problems with the PP chipset(is the latest Orion II or something?) I remember hearing about PCI problems with the chipset. Someone told me they still have problems in orion II. Is this true? What motherboards for Pentium Pro are good and reliable? What about multiprocessor support? Does anyone have FreeBSD hacks to support multiple processors? How well is it working? Thank you, Steven Wallace From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:02:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA13970 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:02:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13960 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:02:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA13722; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:47:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611211947.MAA13722@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: WordPerfect 7.0 for FreeBSD :-) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:47:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: cfortin@ec.camitel.com, FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <16543.848564228@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 21, 96 00:17:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Second, what you should tell Coral to do is send us a copy of the > Linux version and we'll try to certify it for use under FreeBSD. I > don't think that Coral should be pushed to do a FreeBSD version until > we have a better idea of the size of our market since pushing them to > do a port and then seeing it sell badly would be worse than no port at > all. It would only screw us for a second chance. > > I would be happy if vendors with Linux versions of their products > would give us a chance at certifying it under the emulator and, > if it works, listing it as supported under FreeBSD as well (we > will also have to improve our Linux library support, but that > would be a natural side-effect of the certification process also). More important, FreeBSD'ers who buy Linux products to run on FreeBSD should make it clear to the people that are selling the products that they intend to run them on FreeBSD. The only real "certification process" that has any meaning is the port validation the manufacturer does following a port prior to release; anything you do short of that will not gain you someone to talk to when you call their support department with a problem. Notifying them of your intent to use the product under FreeBSD should encourage them to run certification by informing them there is a market, and possibly even encourage them to do a native port. If each FreeBSD sale counts as a false Linux sale, then FreeBSD will be proportionately less desirable a port in the ratio (k1 + n) : (k2 - n). Since k1 was enough for a Linux port, making sure the numbers reflect reality will only help FreeBSD, not hurt Linux. A marketing decision is only as good as the information you give it. I suspect that there are enough FreeBSD users of Linux Mathematica (a heavily discussed topic at various times) to make it worthwhile to have a native port. I'm sure this is true for some of the software running under IBCS2 as well (Informix or one of the other databases, especially). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:16:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA14472 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:16:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA14461 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03696; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:15:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:15:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: michael butler cc: "Darrin R. Woods" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Disk Striping In-Reply-To: <199611210351.OAA03624@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Uh, by definition, isn't striping spreading the load across spindles? I realize it's a tad more complicated than that, but the essence is the same. On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, michael butler wrote: > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:51:56 +1100 (EST) > From: michael butler > To: "Darrin R. Woods" > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Disk Striping > > Darrin R. Woods writes: > > > I just got my news server up and running INN (thanks to everyone that > > helped), but now I'm looking for a better way of dealing with it. I've got > > 3 Fast/Wide 4gb disks to hold news. It would be a lot easier (and better > > performance) if I could stripe (or span) the /var partition accross the 3 > > disks instead of having to guess as to how to partition each drive and into > > what sizes. > > With "only" three drives, you don't want to stripe across them. > > There are four activities which consume disk resources: > > i) maintenance of the active and history files > ii) maintenance of the overview hierarchy > iii) writing out the articles themselves > iv) scribbling to /var/log/news > > Whilst the latter is comparatively "cheap" as it simply extends an existing > file (writes deferred by caching), the first three are best spread across > separate spindles for the best resultant performance. Striping or > concatenation will hurt more than help, > > michael > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:19:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA14641 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:19:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14636 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:19:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13751; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:00:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611212000.NAA13751@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:00:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611210344.OAA10837@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 21, 96 02:14:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think that there's a very important line to be drawn between "I > don't think I need it in the system" and "It should not be in the > system". > > The former is fine, and probably applies to a lot of people. Then > again, it can also be applied to 90% of the system for 90% of users - > the point being that when you aggregate everything that people > want/need, you cover prettymuch everything. > > My point is that there are a sufficient number of people that consider > Perl a 'should-have' to justify its inclusion on those grounds. [ ... ] > I'm still open to argument on this; I just haven't heard a counter > that holds up under scrutiny. How about "because no important system component depends on it"? My main argument against inclusion of additional software in the same class as PERL ("foundation sotware upon which layered components are built") has been that it increases the complexity of the dependency graph. Over time, if a tool exists, people will use it to create expedient (not necessarily "optimal", not necessarily "elegant", but not necessarily "incorrect", either) soloutions to problems. If these soloutions adddress *real* problems, then you have created a dependency, and damaged the ability to create a "minimal system" without the additional software on which the tool is layered. You can think of this as an argument for a tools environment "microkernel", if you insist on an analogy. This is why I argue against TCL scripts. It's why I argue against bash-specific shell scripts, like "configure". It's why I argue against non-bmaked source inclusions, which would add a dependency on GNU make. This is *not* a "bloat/anti-bloat" argument. It is a complexity argument. I have absolutely no problem with an "admin tools" package requiring "perl component", and installing PERL as part of the install of the tools package. But encouraging an increase of complexity in the "minimal system you can create" is, IMO, a bad idea. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:27:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15097 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15090 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13774; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:09:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611212009.NAA13774@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:09:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611210427.OAA11100@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 21, 96 02:57:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's not a question of whether _everyone_ needs it, but whether a > sufficient number of people need it. I think that so far the evidence > indicates that this is the case. Not _everyone_ needs an appendectomy. But perhaps a _suficient_ number of people need them, so we should remove everyone's appendix at age 6. > I'm entirely in agreement with the basic principle, but I strongly > believe that we need to incorporate mature and ubiquitous tools in > as seamless and standard a fashion as possible. This is a different argument entirely... it is a complaint that the installation dependency process is insufficiently seamless. Whether it is or not is less important than the fact that if you wish to add layered dependencies (like PERL) for service extension, it is the responsibility of the peple doing the adding to fix the tools so that the added services appear to be standard system components. This is an issue in layered software installation, not an issue of "system services which should be standard". No one is arguing that PERL should not *seem standard* for those packages/ports which depend on it, only that the *seeming* and the *being* should remain seperate. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:29:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15198 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:29:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.skipstone.com (root@GATEWAY.SKIPSTONE.COM [198.214.10.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15191 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from bugs.skipstone.com (bugs.skipstone.com [204.69.236.2]) by gateway.skipstone.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10695; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:29:19 -0600 Received: from [204.69.236.50] (hotapplepie.skipstone.com [204.69.236.50]) by bugs.skipstone.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29963; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:29:22 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611211750.LAA28837@main.gbdata.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:29:20 -0600 To: Gary Clark II From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: New mailing list - CVS-Alert??? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hello, > >I would like to propose a new mailing list. It would be called cvs-alert >and wuold be for those times that someone makes a commit that requires >either massive changes to way something is done or re-compiles >of programs. > >Lets face it, when someone is getting all of the lists or a large sub-portion >it can be hard to catch little messages at the end of commits telling >you to do this or that. > >Yea or Nay? Nay .. I thought that was one of the purposes of "current" and "stable". Whether it is a separate list of not, the value relies heavily on the committer posting a message. That IMHO is the present weak link. Another list would not help. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:41:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15747 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15742 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13799; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:20:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611212020.NAA13799@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:20:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <57sp638rpb.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Nov 21, 96 02:10:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, for me perl is needed and sed/awk (and even sh) could go > away. Perl does it all much better. (Implicitly invoke your own smiley > before getting wound up about this, though I am essentially serious, I > never use any of the above any more and it's been quite a few years > since I worked on a system that didn't have perl). Actually, you use sh to run /etc/rc* each time you boot. It is a minimal system component, mostly because the data and the procedure for system startup have not been sufficiently abstracted. If they had, you could replace the startup procedure with a binary and throw /bin/sh away. This is assuming you replace system components in /etc, /bin, and so on with non-shell-script versions. I have been arguing loudly for each change I see which moves the system in the direction of seperating procedure from the data on which it acts, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. > I've always felt that we should have a modular install mechanism like > Sun used to have in 4.1.3 (not sure about Solaris, never installed it > personally). Each module was self contained, there was a base system > and then you added things like the man module, which included all the > man binaries and the pages. We could have perl module, which included > perl and all the perl scripts. As long as the scripts are something > can be left out (which currently they could be) then that'd work. If > you could live without the adduser script etc then you wouldn't need > to install that module. Or SCO Xenix, the end-all, be-all of install dependency graph reduction. ... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:44:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15906 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15901 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.dk.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA07512 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:45:07 +0100 (MET) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ft/QIC/Travan support Reply-to: phk@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:45:06 +0100 Message-ID: <7510.848609106@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We have a pretty out of date driver for QIC tapes. Anybody interested in improving it ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:46:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16016 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16009; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13843; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:32:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611212032.NAA13843@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:32:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611211531.QAA01142@ravenock.cybercity.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at Nov 21, 96 04:31:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? > > The reason I am picky about what goes in and what does not, is simply > that core is the entity that is going to get blamed/flamed/kicked when > things are not up to snuff. There is only so much we can have on > our platters, if things are not going to melt down. I (me personally) > think we have reached if not exceeded that limit allready, and getting > even more things into the game, be it small things or huge systems > need a _LOT_ of consideration. > What we should do is delegate _RESPONSIBILITY_ of certain areas of > the system (ports is sortof allready delegated) to individuals or > groups that take this _SERIOUSLY_ and does a job at it. > Now the problem is to find these individuals or groups, as each > time it gets to that, all of a sudden NOBODY is left of the > horde that screamed for some or other feature. [ ... ] > Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? > or is there silence again this time ?? I volunteer (again) to fix the VFS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:49:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16191 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from narcissus.ml.org (brosenga.st.pitzer.edu [134.173.120.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA16182 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ben@localhost) by narcissus.ml.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00263; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:54:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:54:07 -0800 (PST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Steven Wallace cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pentium Pro status In-Reply-To: <199611211855.KAA29654@newport.ece.uci.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Steven Wallace wrote: > > I wanted some input regarding Pentium Pro machines. > Has anyone had any problems with the hardware and/or using it with > FreeBSD? > > Are there any problems with the PP chipset(is the latest Orion II or something?) > I remember hearing about PCI problems with the chipset. Someone > told me they still have problems in orion II. Is this true? > > What motherboards for Pentium Pro are good and reliable? > > What about multiprocessor support? Does anyone have FreeBSD hacks to > support multiple processors? How well is it working? > > Thank you, > > Steven Wallace I'm using a PPro-200 with the 440FX chipset, I don't remember its nickname. I've had no problems with it at all. Ben From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 12:59:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16660 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16650; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:59:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13887; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:46:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:46:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at Nov 21, 96 06:14:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to sos@FreeBSD.org who wrote: > In reply to Richard Wackerbarth who wrote: > > > > >Am I hearing a volounteer here ?? > > > or is there silence again this time ?? > > > > I suggest that you reconsider your (core) willingness to delegate. > > I AM doing some chores which, I assure you, some of the "customers" > > consider important. > > You are ?? > > > I HAVE volounteered to take on some things and been rebuffed in my > > efforts. > > Really, maybe what you wanted to do, wasn't what needed to be done ?? Actually, given your previous statement: | The reason I am picky about what goes in and what does not, is simply | that core is the entity that is going to get blamed/flamed/kicked when | things are not up to snuff. There is only so much we can have on | our platters, if things are not going to melt down. I (me personally) | think we have reached if not exceeded that limit allready, and getting | even more things into the game, be it small things or huge systems | need a _LOT_ of consideration. There is too much "damage control" and too little "consideration" taking place for an unbiased conclusion that what Richard volunteered to do "wasn't what needed to be done". > No, I'm not, core is big enough allready, but we need core to be more > of a governing/directionshowing entity, instead of a poor workhorse.. > Like it or not, there has to be rules (like in the real world out > there), and they should be followed. If we have X developers working > in Y different directions, we have lost the game. So if one want's > to participate, one has to follow the rules, simple as that... Be careful that in elevating the process to this level, you do not make the process into the product. Process is a tool, not a boundry... it seems to me that you are using it as a brake to thwart an increase in complexity, when in fact the complexity is an artifact of the process. If the process did not require single-threading through a non-reentrant "need a _LOT_ of consideration" mutex, I think you would get a much higher concurrency. The Linux process is an example of one with a higher concurrency, though I think it is also hitting its sociological and architectural limits. It just happens that Linux's limits are about 10 times further out than FreeBSD's because of their difference in process. Not that FreeBSD can elect a godlike Linus of their own, and get all the lieutenants to swear fealty to his vision... that's simply not an organization option because of the way organizations evolve. On the other hand, I can build a complex system, like a grandfather clock, put it in place, and with one motion cause it to operate. I don't need to replace my water clock one gear at a time, only using gears which fit the old water clock, thus limiting my ability to build the best grandfather clock I can build. There is something to be said for revolution instead of evolution when you are attempting to build an organization to use as a vehicle to get you to a goal. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 13:01:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA16865 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16857; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA13901; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:47:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611212047.NAA13901@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com (Gary Clark II) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:47:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nik@blueberry.co.uk, davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611211744.LAA28802@main.gbdata.com> from "Gary Clark II" at Nov 21, 96 11:44:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Next point, people are jumping on Perl about how we have so few system > utils based on it it should go, where are the utils based on TCL? > (And as for incompatiable versions... Do all the ports work with > our version of TCL?) This is an argument *against* TCL, not an argument *for* PERL. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 13:39:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19093 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george-2.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19088 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.6.10/8.6.5) id NAA12456; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:39:11 -0800 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:39:11 -0800 From: "Jin Guojun[ITG]" Message-Id: <199611212139.NAA12456@george.lbl.gov> To: swallace@ece.uci.edu Subject: Re: Pentium Pro status Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } > I wanted some input regarding Pentium Pro machines. } > Has anyone had any problems with the hardware and/or using it with } > FreeBSD? } > } > Are there any problems with the PP chipset(is the latest Orion II or something } ?) } > I remember hearing about PCI problems with the chipset. Someone } > told me they still have problems in orion II. Is this true? } > } > What motherboards for Pentium Pro are good and reliable? } > } > What about multiprocessor support? Does anyone have FreeBSD hacks to } > support multiple processors? How well is it working? } > } > Thank you, } > } > Steven Wallace } } I'm using a PPro-200 with the 440FX chipset, I don't remember its } nickname. I've had no problems with it at all. 440FX is the most popular PCI chipset for PP motherboard. I do not know its nickname either. I ordered two MBs with this chipset: one is Tyan S1662 and another is ASUS P6NP5 (dual CPU is P65UP5). FreeBSD 2.2-Alpha crashes on Tyan S1662 quite often on NFS Tx. The ASUS has not come in yet. The trade off is CPU power with I/O power. Pentinum Pro gives 50% CPU power than Pentinum, but 440FX has 25% less memory bandwith than Triton-II. Also, I experienced that PP has slow network I/O than Pentinum. Some more performance comparsion willbe found on: ftp://george.lbl.gov/pub/ccs/performance.ps (p6-7 for P<-->PP). It will be updated whenever the new board/machines come in. -Jin From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 13:52:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19754 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19744 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:52:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12035; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:41:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:41:32 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611212141.OAA12035@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is too much "damage control" and too little "consideration" taking > place for an unbiased conclusion that what Richard volunteered to do > "wasn't what needed to be done". > Richard was completely free to do what he wanted to do, but he wasn't going to get the 'blessing' of anyone until he had a working prototype that was at least as good as the current system. It has *nothing* to do with blessing or consideration given to an individual. John became the VM guru because he re-wrote the VM system, not because he said 'Hey, can I be the VM guru. Please, pretty please, I *really* know what I'm doing, so let me be it.' Poul was once the laptop guru, but because of lack of time and resources allowed me to become it *AFTER* I did some laptop work and prove that I was capable of handling it. (And I have since dropped the ball, but that's another story). I didn't ask Poul or core to be 'the laptop guy', I simply *became* the laptop guy because I did work. Richard has yet to show code for any of his good ideas, and until that happens we all will appreciate his CTM work, but asking for 'permission' to do something is never the way things are worked. To bring in the blast from the past, you becamse the defacto patchkit maintainer because you did the work, not because you got Bill's (or anyone else for that matter) permission. I was given the ugly stick because (hopefully) I had shown to you my willingness to do the work and by organizing and doing work *before* you handed me the baton. It wasn't because I asked so much as because I had already shown I was capable of doing the job. That's how things work around here. You don't get 'blessings' or 'permission' to do something, you do it and then find an advocate to run with it. After the advocate is happy with your work (or too overloaded to do it himself), you become a committer and then are one of the 'blessed/cursed' who are responsible for the whole darn mess. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 14:36:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22122 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22070; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19011; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:35:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:35:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: AIIIEEEEE... 3.0-current no bootee Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmph. I cvsup'd -current this morning. Built a kernel. P120, 128MB RAM, It's panicing with "supervisor write, page not present, right after the "REAL MEMORY = 13417720". If somebody needs all the gobbledygook, I can write it down. I have "MAXMEM=131072" in my kernel config file. A kernel from a couple days ago (albeit/w/o the maxmem option) boots and runs fine. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 14:37:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22166 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.skipstone.com (root@GATEWAY.SKIPSTONE.COM [198.214.10.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22159 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:37:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from bugs.skipstone.com (bugs.skipstone.com [204.69.236.2]) by gateway.skipstone.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA07467; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:36:47 -0600 Received: from [204.69.236.50] (hotapplepie.skipstone.com [204.69.236.50]) by bugs.skipstone.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA30472; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:36:37 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611212141.OAA12035@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:36:35 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Richard was completely free to do what he wanted to do, but he wasn't >going to get the 'blessing' of anyone until he had a working prototype >that was at least as good as the current system. As I have pointed out a number of times, as I understand your "rules", it is not reasonable to even attempt this. There are EXTENSIVE changes which must be made. If I am shooting at a moving target, I'll never be able to catch up. Since I do not feel that "stopping everyone else" is a reasonable request, I advocate "incremental" steps. Unfortunately, to those who do not see the complete picture, those steps will be "steps backward" until the final piece is in place. As I interpret the mood of the "core", that is unacceptable. Therefore, I can only conclude that it is impossible for it to happen within the current framework. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 14:38:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22306 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22260 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:38:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA22811 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:34 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA10634 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:34 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id WAA22717 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:27:41 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611212127.WAA22717@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Regexp ambiguity (Was: cvs commit: src/gnu/lib/libregex ...) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:27:41 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199611210724.IAA16339@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> from Thomas Gellekum at "Nov 21, 96 08:24:25 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Thomas Gellekum wrote: > > Merge from HEAD: don't duplicate the Posix regex stuff in libregex, > > it's already in libc (and both implementations clash when linking both > > libs simultaneously). > > While you're at it: when testing a new port I found that there are > multiple definitions of regerror in libcompat: > Which one of those do we really need there? If you look into the source, you'll notice that there are two different regexp packages in libcompat. One is sitting in `4.3', consisting of re_comp(), re_exec(), and the undocumented regerror(). All functions are in a single file, so once you reference re_comp() and re_exec(), you'll automatically get the correct regerror(). The other implementation is Henry Spencer's regexp(3), consisting of functions identically named to the Posix regex stuff (regcomp(), regexec(), regsub() [which is not in Posix]), and regerror(). All functions live in different source files. Further, regerror() is supposed to be overloadable by user programs, hence it's not that easy to squeeze it along into one of the other files, even though the default regerror() is a do-nothing. I'm not sure, maybe now that our assembler and linker understand weak symbols, we could go this route, so it will be tightly bound to its respective regexp functions, but can still be overloaded by the user? Are there opinions to this? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 14:39:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22344 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22334 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:38:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA22784; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:21 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA10626; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:21 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id VAA22333; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:48:10 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611212048.VAA22333@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: any suggestions? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:48:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: costa@inner.cortx.com (Costa) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Costa at "Nov 21, 96 10:49:53 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Costa wrote: > Formatting page, please wait...groff: can't find `DESC' file > groff:fatal error: invalid device `ascii' > Done. Your /usr/share/groff_font/devascii/ seems corrupted (or unreadable by user `man'). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 14:39:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22377 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:39:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22326 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA22792; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:25 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA10630; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id VAA22458; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:55:01 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611212055.VAA22458@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Device driver development To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:55:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: alex@aspn.net Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <3294791F.2BD6@aspn.net> from alex huppenthal at "Nov 21, 96 08:45:35 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As alex huppenthal wrote: > I have several device drivers to create for FreeBSD. If you have > any pointers for a newbie just getting into writing drivers for FreeBSD > please respond. Except of the few stuff that has been written for section 9 of the manual by now, and of course, the 4.4BSD daemon book (and the refs under /usr/src/share/doc/), it's probably mostly UTSLware still. Submissions for new section 9 man pages are greatly welcome! Many of the pages there have been written by people in the process of understanding ``what's going on inside''. If you don't speak troff -mdoc that's not a problem -- there will be people who can convert a plain ASCII document into this format once it's written. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 14:46:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22892 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:46:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22867 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:45:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA12448; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:45:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:45:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611212245.PAA12448@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: References: <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199611212141.OAA12035@rocky.mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth writes: > >Richard was completely free to do what he wanted to do, but he wasn't > >going to get the 'blessing' of anyone until he had a working prototype > >that was at least as good as the current system. > > As I have pointed out a number of times, as I understand your "rules", > it is not reasonable to even attempt this. And that's where we disagree. > There are EXTENSIVE changes which must be made. If I am shooting at a > moving target, I'll never be able to catch up. The 'target' doeesn't keep moving. We have provided almost *NO* 'new' features over the 4.4 stuff other than making it work like someone expected it to, plus add the ports stuff. New stuff: 1) Working shlib support 2) Working R/O source tree (obj links and such) 3) Ports 4) Better .depend handling Since your new solution is better it shouldn't rely on the hacks and fixes we've needed to do to get things working 'the way we want' (although I disagree with some of the changes, majority rules). You need to provide (or at least show) that you can provide the same functionality with a 'better' system, or we aren't going anywhere. Heck, show me a working prototype that has 4 levels. Top level / \ Subdir1 Subdir2 / / \ P1 P2 ssubdir3 / \ P3 P4 Proof that you're way is 'better' is all that we're asking for. Can you fix the build environment so that it's easier than the current system, and that doesn't require any of the kludges the existing system needs (pre-built binaries), etc.. Make some dependencies in your tree, heck build something that requires flex, and have flex be one of the tools in the tree. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 14:54:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA23475 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from spoon.beta.com ([199.165.180.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23470 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from spoon.beta.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spoon.beta.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA02942 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:54:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611212254.RAA02942@spoon.beta.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Perl comment Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:54:30 -0500 From: "Brian J. McGovern" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, might as well throw in my two cents... Why not make a install menu tree similar to the source menu tree (ie - base, gnu, sys, et al), and include all of the add-ons (apache, perl, anonymous ftp config, pcnfsd, etc) that provide typical "extended network/development services" (which could therefore be a limiter to keep things like elm, pine, off the list)? This way, it would take these things off the post-install menu, and give a configuration that will allow a certain amount of flexibility. -Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 15:18:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA24759 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24742 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id JAA15100; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:48:47 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611212318.JAA15100@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Device driver development In-Reply-To: <3294791F.2BD6@aspn.net> from alex huppenthal at "Nov 21, 96 08:45:35 am" To: alex@aspn.net Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:48:46 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk alex huppenthal stands accused of saying: > I have several device drivers to create for FreeBSD. If you have > any pointers for a newbie just getting into writing drivers for FreeBSD > please respond. Your best bet is really to look at the existing drivers; if you're doing serial comms stuff the 'sio' driver is _the_ place to start. Then start asking questions here; there are plenty of people that can help you out. A while back Eric H. was working on a driver writer's guide, but it's very hard to know where to draw the line between "this is a BSD-specific issue" and "this is something about device drivers in general". The 4.4 Daemon book is also a useful reference, although a bit distant from the current FreeBSD implementation. > We've developed a number of high performance communications boards > for FreeBSD. I am now/will soon be available for device driver development at reasonable rates, should you wish to outsource. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 15:19:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA24782 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:19:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.skipstone.com (root@GATEWAY.SKIPSTONE.COM [198.214.10.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24774 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from bugs.skipstone.com (bugs.skipstone.com [204.69.236.2]) by gateway.skipstone.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA16799; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:18:59 -0600 Received: from [204.69.236.50] (hotapplepie.skipstone.com [204.69.236.50]) by bugs.skipstone.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA30637; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:19:02 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611212245.PAA12448@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199611212141.OAA12035@rocky.mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:19:02 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Heck, show me a working prototype that has 4 levels. > > Top level > / \ > Subdir1 Subdir2 > / / \ > P1 P2 ssubdir3 > / \ > P3 P4 > >Proof that you're way is 'better' is all that we're asking for. I have offered "samples" before, but that offer was rejected. The demand was that I demonstrate by showing it work on EVERYTHING. (ie fete complete) If you are willing to accept a sanitized "demo" which shows how I would handle the "recursive" nature of the present system, I can do that without "fixing" any of the current code. A "sample" library and a tool or two are all that should be required. This is a far different request from the one that I prove that I can do EVERYTHING. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 15:21:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA24989 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24983 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA12775; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:21:38 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:21:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611212321.QAA12775@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: References: <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199611212141.OAA12035@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199611212245.PAA12448@rocky.mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth writes: > >Heck, show me a working prototype that has 4 levels. > > > > Top level > > / \ > > Subdir1 Subdir2 > > / / \ > > P1 P2 ssubdir3 > > / \ > > P3 P4 > > > >Proof that you're way is 'better' is all that we're asking for. > > I have offered "samples" before, but that offer was rejected. I've never seen an offer before, so I can't comment. > The demand > was that I demonstrate by showing it work on EVERYTHING. (ie fete complete) > If you are willing to accept a sanitized "demo" which shows how I would > handle the "recursive" nature of the present system, I can do that without > "fixing" any of the current code. A "sample" library and a tool or two are > all that should be required. Show me the above, and we'll go from there. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 15:36:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA26147 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:36:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26125; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA15204; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:04:53 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611212334.KAA15204@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611211744.LAA28802@main.gbdata.com> from Gary Clark II at "Nov 21, 96 11:44:06 am" To: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com (Gary Clark II) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:04:53 +1030 (CST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nik@blueberry.co.uk, davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Clark II stands accused of saying: > > I am the Perl person unless someone stands forth. I brought 4.036 in > back in 2.0 and have been waiting for the wrangling to be done with before > I bring in 5.003/4. I have no problem doing this. I also need to > "REMOVE" the current info in the tree and update to the latest. No > big deal, except for the flamage I would catch. I think that opinion on this is settling. Thanks for standing up, too. > Next point, people are jumping on Perl about how we have so few system > utils based on it it should go, where are the utils based on TCL? Wrong mentality. I have about 20,000 lines of Tcl here in out product which load a couple of custom libraries and talk to our hardware. This is what having Tcl in the tree is about, and is why I see Perl in the tree as a Very Good Thing. > (And as for incompatiable versions... Do all the ports work with > our version of TCL?) All except a very few have been cleanly converted. > Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 15:36:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA26190 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:36:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26184 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA13337 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:35:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3294E717.794BDF32@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:34:47 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: VOP_READ (etc) man page (man 9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk SOMEONE had these ready to go, but I forget who... If I can find them I'd like to go over them and check them in... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 15:54:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27321 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from research.gate.nec.co.jp (research.gate.nec.co.jp [202.32.8.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27316 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbl-gw.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp by research.gate.nec.co.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/950912) with ESMTP id IAA13018; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:54:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp by sbl-gw.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.3W6) with ESMTP id IAA23033; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:54:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp (8.7.5+2.6Wbeta6/3.3W6) with UUCP id IAA25771; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:54:22 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:54:22 +0900 (JST) From: Naoki Hamada Message-Id: <199611212354.IAA25771@sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp> References: <9611202302.ZM8284@terminus.trailblazer.com> To: morgan@terminus.trailblazer.com CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: "Jon Morgan"'s message of "Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:02:14 -0800" <9611202302.ZM8284@terminus.trailblazer.com> Subject: Re: vx driver problems Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jon Morgan wrote: >I found problems in if_vx.c where the driver handles ifconfig link[012] flags. >The driver is ANDing the index into the connector_table rather than the >actual bit value out of the table. >Here's the code for 2.1.6-RELEASE that fixes the problem: Thanks! I will rewrite the code around there and make it print more friendly messages. - nao From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 15:57:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27487 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27478 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA15374; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:24:56 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611212354.KAA15374@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611212009.NAA13774@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Nov 21, 96 01:09:31 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:24:55 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au, terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > It's not a question of whether _everyone_ needs it, but whether a > > sufficient number of people need it. I think that so far the evidence > > indicates that this is the case. > > Not _everyone_ needs an appendectomy. > > But perhaps a _suficient_ number of people need them, so we should > remove everyone's appendix at age 6. Oh please; I think you can do better than that. p -> q <=/=> !p -> !q Perhaps "Not everyone needs tetanus immunisation, but it helps a lot of people, so we immunise at age 6". If further research shows that immunisation sucks, then we can stop. > > I'm entirely in agreement with the basic principle, but I strongly > > believe that we need to incorporate mature and ubiquitous tools in > > as seamless and standard a fashion as possible. > > This is a different argument entirely... it is a complaint that the > installation dependency process is insufficiently seamless. No it is _not_. Any statically-configured system is vulnerable to variation in usage pattern; the simple intent here is to cover more of the possible requirements in the out-of-the-box configuration in a reasonable fashion. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:18:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29010 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:18:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28997 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA25571; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:17:35 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA13082; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:17:35 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id AAA23215; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:18:52 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611212318.AAA23215@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:18:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "Nov 21, 96 11:53:49 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > Oh! I think that there was some concensus that it NEEDS to be > done. It is just that the "core" is unwilling to delegate the > responsibility to me. There's nothing like "core" that can be attributed this way, as if it were a single person, in FreeBSD. There are only members of the core team who try to discuss several `government' issues on their mailing list, who often have (incidentally) agreeing opinions but also often disagreeing opinions about some technical matter, and who last but not least often spend quite a large amount of time on the project, not only for coding but for much more boring tasks like release engineering, user support etc. So pleas don't claim that "core" does/doesn't do this or that. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:18:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29047 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29027 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA25554 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:17:24 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA13065 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:17:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id AAA23276 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:23:57 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611212323.AAA23276@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: the way things are going (Was: Who needs Perl?) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:23:57 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199611212141.OAA12035@rocky.mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 21, 96 02:41:32 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Nate Williams wrote: [Excellent explanation deleted, i fully agree with Nate here.] > That's how things work around here. You don't get 'blessings' or > 'permission' to do something, you do it and then find an advocate to run > with it. After the advocate is happy with your work (or too overloaded > to do it himself), you become a committer and then are one of the > 'blessed/cursed' who are responsible for the whole darn mess. Well, but you forgot: that's exactly the point where the real work begins... ;-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:19:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29106 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:19:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from pooh.cdrom.com (pooh.cdrom.com [204.216.28.222]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29097 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:19:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nebula.cdrom.com (nebula.cdrom.com [204.216.28.166]) by pooh.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05148 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by nebula.cdrom.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA00257; Thu, 21 Nov 96 16:21:46 -0800 Message-Id: <9611220021.AA00257@nebula.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) X-Face: ai[hyoqe:f9G)"BQ&cQ[ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 96 16:21:45 -0800 To: tech@pooh.cdrom.com Subject: WCARCHIVE DOWN AGAIN. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: eric@cdrom.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk CRL called again, WCARCHIVE is down again. 4:21 for the past 30 minutes. Eric "E.T." Tremblay Walnut Creek CDROM eric@cdrom.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:35:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA00414 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00398 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:34:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA13292; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:34:44 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:34:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611220034.RAA13292@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Michael Smith Cc: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com (Gary Clark II), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611212334.KAA15204@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199611211744.LAA28802@main.gbdata.com> <199611212334.KAA15204@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Reduced the Cc list down. Please try and minimize the lists ] > > Next point, people are jumping on Perl about how we have so few system > > utils based on it it should go, where are the utils based on TCL? > > Wrong mentality. I have about 20,000 lines of Tcl here in out product > which load a couple of custom libraries and talk to our hardware. This > is what having Tcl in the tree is about, and is why I see Perl in the > tree as a Very Good Thing. But the policy is that nothing belongs in the 'src' tree unless something else relies on it. You can get TCL via the ports (or could have until we brought it into the tree) and it should have stayed there since nothing still uses it and it's been over 5 months. I complained when it was brought in and was told 'Real Soon Now', but nothing has happened. It's simply bloat that is useless to *most* users, and has no use in the main tree. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but unless that happens soon I'm gonna stay in the 'complain and moan' camp. (I *HATE* seeing stupid TCL man-pages that come up instead of the C routines). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:35:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA00460 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00441; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01048; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:33:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21459; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:33:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611220033.TAA21459@orion.webspan.net> To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-stable@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: panic: ffs_valloc: dup alloc In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:53:24 EST." <199611161253.HAA26583@lakes.water.net> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:33:26 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thomas David Rivers wrote in message ID <199611161253.HAA26583@lakes.water.net>: > > root@mail:/var/crash> gdb -k kernel vmcore.2 > > GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it > > under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. > > There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. > > GDB 4.13 (i386-unknown-freebsd), > > Copyright 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc... > > IdlePTD 1d5000 > > current pcb at 1abd64 > > panic: ffs_valloc: dup alloc > > #0 boot (howto=260) at ../../i386/i386/machdep.c:912 > > 912 } else { > > (kgdb) bt > Welcome to the club :-) > This is the panic that I have had for several months, which is > duplicated almost every night. Well, it just bit me again :-( > Rest assured that several people are investigating this at this > time... > I believe it has something to do with the inode allocation bits in > ffs_valloc(). Others believe some race conditions in vnode allocation > are to blaim, etc... David Greene is investigating other avenues. > It seems to me that we are closing in on the issue, if only by > eliminating everything else :-) Question: it's always the same FS with me that bites the dust. Perhaps a previous crash of the machine caused a FS corruption fsck isn't picking up on. Has anyone who is being bothered by this dumped the fs with *tar* (not dump) and resored to see if that fixes the problem? Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:37:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA00622 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:37:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00604 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from mail.hanse.de (193.174.9.9) with smtp id ; Fri, 22 Nov 96 01:36 MET Received: from wavehh.UUCP by mail.hanse.de with UUCP for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id ; Fri, 22 Nov 96 01:34 MET Received: by wavehh.hanse.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02881; Fri, 22 Nov 96 01:14:06 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 01:14:06 +0100 From: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer) Message-Id: <9611220014.AA02881@wavehh.hanse.de> To: gclarkii@main.gbdata.COM Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New mailing list - CVS-Alert??? Newsgroups: hanse-ml.freebsd.hackers References: <199611211750.LAA28837@main.gbdata.com> Reply-To: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I would like to propose a new mailing list. It would be called cvs-alert >and wuold be for those times that someone makes a commit that requires >either massive changes to way something is done or re-compiles >of programs. The sequence of actions to compile a kernel and then the world is almost always the same (includes, config, kernel, compiler). I wrote down some of it at (was for NetBSD, but applies to FreeBSD, too): http://www.bik-gmbh.de/~cracauer/bsd-to-current.html Besides getting a world to build, there's another issue: if you don't do a make world everytime you have a new tree, how to find out what programs need to be recompiled? One example are tools that depend on kernel data structure layout. The right thing to solve this is to make sure you rebuild such programs when include files they reference changes. Traversing /usr/src/*bin* that already has was compile at some time and an individual 'make depend' should do the job. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://cracauer.cons.org Fax +49405228536 "As far as I'm concerned, if something is so complicated that you can't ex- plain it in 10 seconds, then it's probably not worth knowing anyway"- Calvin From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:47:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01140 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:47:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01130 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA15782; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:16:46 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611220046.LAA15782@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611220034.RAA13292@rocky.mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 21, 96 05:34:44 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:16:45 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, gclarkii@main.gbdata.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > But the policy is that nothing belongs in the 'src' tree unless > something else relies on it. You can get TCL via the ports (or could This devolves to "nothing belongs in the source tree". If you accept any other argument, then we are talking about what level of service/redundancy (depending on perspective) is appropriate. > main tree. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but unless that happens soon > I'm gonna stay in the 'complain and moan' camp. (I *HATE* seeing stupid > TCL man-pages that come up instead of the C routines). And finally, your real gripe. How about reordering your manpage search order so that 3 comes before n? I hate getting printf(1) before printf(3) too; do you hear me griping about that? > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:50:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01319 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01298 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA14461; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:34:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611220034.RAA14461@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:34:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611212141.OAA12035@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 21, 96 02:41:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There is too much "damage control" and too little "consideration" taking > > place for an unbiased conclusion that what Richard volunteered to do > > "wasn't what needed to be done". > > Richard was completely free to do what he wanted to do, but he wasn't > going to get the 'blessing' of anyone until he had a working prototype > that was at least as good as the current system. I don't think that was the problem. What he was looking for was a commitment that, if there was consensus that the prototype was "at least as good as the current system", then the existing system would be replaced. In other words, a definition of an acceptable replacement and an agreement to not change the definition out from under him while he did the work. Then all Richard would have to do is "meet spec" instead of "meet spec and play politics". > To bring in the blast from the past, you becamse the defacto patchkit > maintainer because you did the work, not because you got Bill's (or > anyone else for that matter) permission. I was given the ugly stick > because (hopefully) I had shown to you my willingness to do the work and > by organizing and doing work *before* you handed me the baton. Not quite. I agree that the results would have been the same, whatever the motivation, if that's any consolation. 8-). Actually, it was because I'm more interested in (figuratively) framing houses than in nailing up sheetrock, spackling, and painting. After building the machine for building patchkits, I was interested in going on to build the next machine instead of running the one I built. In other words, I wanted to do systems engineering, not patchkit or release engineering. If you want to go the the "blast from the past" immediately previous to that one, I did the same thing with the FreeBSD FAQ: built a tool, and then instead of using it, went on to the next tool (the patchkit). If I'd known then what I know now, I would have spent a bit more time systems-engineering a template for volunteer organizations and a bit less time waiting for Bill to wear the mantle designed by Linus. I can only say that I was naieve about what the spirit of volunteerism can and can't motivate in the face of normal human group dynamics in the context of a private law system. I'll know better The Next Time, and will install a self-maintaining, machine-run voting democracy with a prioritization feedback loop. Example: Each person gets N "votes" in a time period, and can "spend" up to 0-K of them on any topic. Each person also gets some M << N "call for votes" that they can "spend" in a given time period. Majority rules. Votes close 4 weeks after call, or when a majority is undeniable (the number of remaining potential votes is less than the total minus the votes already cast for one side of the issue). Each accumulates over time, and both quit accumulating when they reach the limit. Same thing for organizational policy decisions, only with smaller limits to ensure a longer periodic vector, and a 3/4 majority requirement. Like vote accumulation period, initial votes for new members, expansion of the comitters list, change in majority values, etc.. So if I truly feel strongly about something, I can "call for a vote", and then "vote up to K votes" for/against. Everyone else "votes up to K votes" for/against. If they care. If they don't care enough to vote, then what they say really doesn't matter. If I'm a whiner, I quickly run out of my number of "votes/call for votes" and the activity is self-limiting. I'll either pace myself, or you can "put me down" with opposing votes each time I enter a flurry of activity. If the main participants fail to participate fully, then the system will self-correct to a different meta-stable state that excludes them, but which does not penalize their future participation. Goodbye to: Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My patch I didn't have time to look at your patch, but I'll get to it real soon now, I promise" -- A member of the committer society Subject: No time Sorry, your changes are too large for us to be able to vet them. -- A member of the code vetting society Subject: Re: Closed developement Sorry, I just don't have time to waste on organizational issues, I'm busy coding! -- A member of the organization committe Ah, ode to fuzzy control systems! Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 16:51:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01390 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:51:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01382 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA13441; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:51:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:51:31 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611220051.RAA13441@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Michael Smith Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), gclarkii@main.gbdata.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611220046.LAA15782@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199611220034.RAA13292@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199611220046.LAA15782@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > But the policy is that nothing belongs in the 'src' tree unless > > something else relies on it. You can get TCL via the ports (or could > > This devolves to "nothing belongs in the source tree". If you accept > any other argument, then we are talking about what level of > service/redundancy (depending on perspective) is appropriate. Everything in the tree has a purpose. I can't do *anything* with TCL, and nothing in the tree uses TCL. I need the compiler to rebuild myself, but I don't need TCL for *anything* (w/regards to the system). TCL alone doesn't provide anything, while ls does (it's part of the OS). I'd even throw the games out, but they are considered part of 'standard BSD' releases. > > main tree. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but unless that happens soon > > I'm gonna stay in the 'complain and moan' camp. (I *HATE* seeing stupid > > TCL man-pages that come up instead of the C routines). > > And finally, your real gripe. No, that was a 'PLUS, I also hate it' kind of gripe. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:02:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA01919 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:02:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01912 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA15889; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:31:33 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611220101.LAA15889@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611220051.RAA13441@rocky.mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 21, 96 05:51:31 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:31:32 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@mt.sri.com, gclarkii@main.gbdata.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > > > This devolves to "nothing belongs in the source tree". If you accept > > any other argument, then we are talking about what level of > > service/redundancy (depending on perspective) is appropriate. > > Everything in the tree has a purpose. I can't do *anything* with TCL, > and nothing in the tree uses TCL. I need the compiler to rebuild > myself, but I don't need TCL for *anything* (w/regards to the system). *You* may not be able to do anything with Tcl, but *I* can. *I* can't do anythying with Perl, but *other* people can. Nobody uses the entire feature set of the system; that is a given. > TCL alone doesn't provide anything, while ls does (it's part of the OS). Tcl is actually used for BMaking stuff, as you may have noticed. Jordan is bolting the new install together using it. I'm working on some configuration tools using it. 'ls' is only useful if you are a shell user, and need to see what files are on the disk. There are plenty of systems where 'ls' isn't particularly useful at all. Like I said, we're talking about a matter of degree, not principle. > No, that was a 'PLUS, I also hate it' kind of gripe. Hmm, it was the only one I could see that wasn't purely philosophical. > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:02:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA01940 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:02:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01932 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA13484; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:58:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:58:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611220058.RAA13484@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611220034.RAA14461@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199611212141.OAA12035@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199611220034.RAA14461@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > There is too much "damage control" and too little "consideration" taking > > > place for an unbiased conclusion that what Richard volunteered to do > > > "wasn't what needed to be done". > > > > Richard was completely free to do what he wanted to do, but he wasn't > > going to get the 'blessing' of anyone until he had a working prototype > > that was at least as good as the current system. > > I don't think that was the problem. That was *the* problem, and I was one of the most prolific posters. > What he was looking for was a commitment that, if there was consensus > that the prototype was "at least as good as the current system", then > the existing system would be replaced. You get that *after* you've proven your point, not before. That's the way things work. Because one person's 'solution' may meet all the technical criteria (ie; it solves the problem) doesn't mean it meets all the criteria (is this *better* than the current system). I won't buy off on *anything* simply because there is no such thing as 'completely technical' solution that have no politics/emotions/personal judgement involved. Richard may think he solution is 'easier/better/cleaner', but since I'm one of the users responsible for using it I leave it up to *MY* judgement to determine that. If he doesn't like my opinion, he can bring it up with someone else, etc... As a 'committer' I'm responsible for the code in the tree, and responsible to both users and developers. I don't take that responsibility lightly, and as such you should be commending the committers for trying to maintain some semblance of 'consistancy' in the tree rather than beating them over the head for doing their job. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:07:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA02206 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02200 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA13545; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:07:08 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:07:08 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611220107.SAA13545@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Michael Smith Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), gclarkii@main.gbdata.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611220101.LAA15889@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199611220051.RAA13441@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199611220101.LAA15889@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > > > > > This devolves to "nothing belongs in the source tree". If you accept > > > any other argument, then we are talking about what level of > > > service/redundancy (depending on perspective) is appropriate. > > > > Everything in the tree has a purpose. I can't do *anything* with TCL, > > and nothing in the tree uses TCL. I need the compiler to rebuild > > myself, but I don't need TCL for *anything* (w/regards to the system). > > *You* may not be able to do anything with Tcl, but *I* can. *I* > can't do anythying with Perl, but *other* people can. Nobody uses > the entire feature set of the system; that is a given. > > > TCL alone doesn't provide anything, while ls does (it's part of the OS). > > Tcl is actually used for BMaking stuff, as you may have noticed. > Jordan is bolting the new install together using it. I'm working on > some configuration tools using it. Let's see those tools, and then I'll shutup. Again, there are lots of *useful* things that we could bring in, but they aren't used and/or essential. Should we bring in Python as well, and what about the new Limbo compiler from the folks at Lucent (nee Bell Labs). What about the ADA compiler from the GNU folks? Where do you draw the line between 'useful to some' and 'bloat'. It was decided a *LONG* time ago that unless a utility was part of the standard BSD distribution and/or was required for the running system it shouldn't be part of the tree. 'libforms' was recently deleted since it was a 'good idea' that never came to pass. It might have been a useful tool, but *FreeBSD* doesn't use it. > 'ls' is only useful if you are a shell user, and need to see what > files are on the disk. There are plenty of systems where 'ls' isn't > particularly useful at all. Like I said, we're talking about a matter > of degree, not principle. FreeBSD is sold as a multi-user Unix system. 'ls' is required on that, and as well it's distributed as part of the 'standard BSD' tools. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:08:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA02265 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:08:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02260 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id MAA26336 Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:08:09 +1100 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199611220108.MAA26336@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Disk Striping In-Reply-To: from Jaye Mathisen at "Nov 21, 96 12:15:12 pm" To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:08:09 +1100 (EST) Cc: dwoods@netgazer.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jaye Mathisen writes: > Uh, by definition, isn't striping spreading the load across spindles? > I realize it's a tad more complicated than that, but the essence is the > same. This is optimally effective when there is only one locality of reference since striping then serves to reduce the number of seeks (divide number of tracks transferred by N drives) and introduce an element of parallelism into the disk transactions (each drive will detach from the SCSI bus whilst busy). > > There are four activities which consume disk resources: > > > > i) maintenance of the active and history files > > ii) maintenance of the overview hierarchy > > iii) writing out the articles themselves > > iv) scribbling to /var/log/news These activities are usually not operating on adjacent locales when implemented on a single drive (or one logical constructed out of a few physical ones). Thus the striped drive will be seeking all over the place and losing much of the advantage of striping in the first place. You do not want to design something that inherently seeks a lot, you need to minimise seeking for both performance, long term reliability and drive life. It is, however, quite valid to stripe any one activity, such as scribbling out the articles across multiple drives. You could, for example, use two striped drives for the history stuff, one for the overview (only if you have any readers) and two striped for the article spool to achieve what you're after. Even better, split the two striped arrangements onto two separate (SCSI) controllers, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:14:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA02630 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:14:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (sdev.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02613 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.2/8.6.9) id MAA18403; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:12:44 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:12:44 +1100 From: davidn@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611212009.NAA13774@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199611212354.KAA15374@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199611212354.KAA15374@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Nov 22, 1996 10:24:55 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > > This is a different argument entirely... it is a complaint that the > > installation dependency process is insufficiently seamless. > > No it is _not_. Any statically-configured system is vulnerable to > variation in usage pattern; the simple intent here is to cover more of > the possible requirements in the out-of-the-box configuration in a > reasonable fashion. If this is the reason for having it, then Perl4 is no longer viable. In the real world, the only requirement it meets is being able to run the scripts with which FreeBSD is delivered, and that is far too minimal to handle "possible requirements" for using perl scripts from elsewhere, most of which are now require perl5. It needs to be removed or replaced. David Nugent, Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:24:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA03462 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03457 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA16082; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:53:28 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611220123.LAA16082@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611220107.SAA13545@rocky.mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 21, 96 06:07:08 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:53:27 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@mt.sri.com, gclarkii@main.gbdata.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > > > Tcl is actually used for BMaking stuff, as you may have noticed. > > Jordan is bolting the new install together using it. I'm working on > > some configuration tools using it. > > Let's see those tools, and then I'll shutup. Again, there are lots of Sure. Right now I'm taking gripes from my employer, my SO and the DOS emulation people for the time I'm spending on my part; I don't plan on wasting all that angst. > essential. Should we bring in Python as well, and what about the new > Limbo compiler from the folks at Lucent (nee Bell Labs). What about the > ADA compiler from the GNU folks? Where do you draw the line between > 'useful to some' and 'bloat'. That is _exactly_ what this thread has been about; ref. my original post. In my opinion, the usefulness of Perl in the base system outweighs the 'bloat' consideration. I'm aware that bloat is an issue of religious importance to some people, and I've been trying to encourage one of these people (that isn't as overloaded as the rest of us 8) to do something constructive about it without alienating the "comfortable system" people by telling them to go pick a pile of ports. > It was decided a *LONG* time ago that unless a utility was part of the > standard BSD distribution and/or was required for the running system it > shouldn't be part of the tree. That's all well and good, but it presents a chicken-and-egg situation for anyone trying to work outside the decades-old BSD model. You may not consider this a problem; I do. Opinions differ. > FreeBSD is sold as a multi-user Unix system. 'ls' is required on that, > and as well it's distributed as part of the 'standard BSD' tools. I get this really sinking feeling around that whole concept. It's like there's a little stack of yellowing 15x11 half-blue tractor-feed somewhere with the Unix Commandments in faded courier on it, and that it exerts this Powerful Force over all those that have read it, hardening their hearts against anything not thought of at least ten years ago. Maybe that as it should be; I just beg to differ. > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:28:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA03727 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03708 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA13712; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:28:42 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:28:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611220128.SAA13712@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Michael Smith Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611220123.LAA16082@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199611220107.SAA13545@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199611220123.LAA16082@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > ADA compiler from the GNU folks? Where do you draw the line between > > 'useful to some' and 'bloat'. > > That is _exactly_ what this thread has been about; ref. my original > post. In my opinion, the usefulness of Perl in the base system > outweighs the 'bloat' consideration. Agreed (to a point). > > It was decided a *LONG* time ago that unless a utility was part of the > > standard BSD distribution and/or was required for the running system it > > shouldn't be part of the tree. > > That's all well and good, but it presents a chicken-and-egg situation > for anyone trying to work outside the decades-old BSD model. You may > not consider this a problem; I do. Opinions differ. Yes, but anyone capable of developing a 'cool tool' with TCL that we can't live w/out is capable of installing a port, and *then* showing me how wonderful it is to justify bringing in TCL as part of the base system. Put the cart *before* the horse. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:32:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA03932 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:32:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarion.korrnet.org (clarion.korrnet.org [205.131.173.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03892 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:32:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kegrotla@localhost) by clarion.korrnet.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02404 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:29:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:29:27 -0500 (EST) From: Kjell E Grotland To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: IBM 57SLC Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hopefully this is not too trivial a matter but i was wondering if it is possible to Run FreeBSD on an IBM 57SLC. The reason i ask is because apparently this is a machine on which IBM place its proprietary Micro Channel Bus system and i was wondering if it made a difference in installing the FreeBSD Operating system. If not underwhich type of hardware configuration should i install the operating system? Thank you for your help in this matter Kjell Kjell E. Grotland kegrotla@korrnet.org Where do you seek the Beloved? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 17:40:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA04526 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04513 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA16254; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:10:03 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611220140.MAA16254@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! In-Reply-To: <199611220128.SAA13712@rocky.mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 21, 96 06:28:42 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:10:02 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > > > That's all well and good, but it presents a chicken-and-egg situation > > for anyone trying to work outside the decades-old BSD model. You may > > not consider this a problem; I do. Opinions differ. > > Yes, but anyone capable of developing a 'cool tool' with TCL that we > can't live w/out is capable of installing a port, and *then* showing me > how wonderful it is to justify bringing in TCL as part of the base > system. > > Put the cart *before* the horse. Chicken->egg, egg->chicken? I can say that I wouldn't have undertaken what I have if Tcl wasn't a part of the standard system - too many people would say "but it needs Tcl, and I don't want to install that because ...". I figure that once it is clear that Perl is intended to be a part of the base system, and that it's a stable item not going anywhere, people should pick up and start using it. And the ultimate comeback is; if I'm wrong, and after 12 months nothing has made use of it and everybody hates it, it can go away again. At that point, there can be (even though there would be 8) no argument. > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 18:15:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA06197 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06190 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <19715(1)>; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:01:08 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177557>; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:47:27 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: Bill Fenner , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: arpresolve errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:04:12 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:47:26 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Nov21.174727pst.177557@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message you wri te: >I'll put a watcher program on >/var/log/messages to do a netstat -rn when it sees the arpresolve messages. Please do; it's likely to be the only way to track down why you're seeing them. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 18:18:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA06525 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA06515 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA16607; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:48:30 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199611220218.MAA16607@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: IBM 57SLC In-Reply-To: from Kjell E Grotland at "Nov 21, 96 08:29:27 pm" To: kegrotla@korrnet.org (Kjell E Grotland) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:48:29 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kjell E Grotland stands accused of saying: > Hopefully this is not too trivial a matter but i was wondering if it is > possible to Run FreeBSD on an IBM 57SLC. The reason i ask is because > apparently this is a machine on which IBM place its proprietary Micro > Channel Bus system and i was wondering if it made a difference in > installing the FreeBSD Operating system. If not underwhich type of > hardware configuration should i install the operating system? FreeBSD does not currently support Microchannel. If you need a Unix to run on that system, you may be able to get a PS/2 AIX to work. For FreeBSD, PCI is the bus of choice; EISA and ISA also work well. > Kjell E. Grotland -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 18:53:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA08034 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA08026 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:53:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vQljL-0000Wf-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:52:39 -0700 To: Michael Smith Subject: Re: IBM 57SLC Cc: kegrotla@korrnet.org (Kjell E Grotland), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:48:29 +1030." <199611220218.MAA16607@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199611220218.MAA16607@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:52:38 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199611220218.MAA16607@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Michael Smith writes: : FreeBSD does not currently support Microchannel. If you need a Unix : to run on that system, you may be able to get a PS/2 AIX to work. There is also a Linux microchannel port, but I know not its stability or where to find it. : For FreeBSD, PCI is the bus of choice; EISA and ISA also work well. VLB works too! Gotta get me some more modern hardware... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 19:57:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA18710 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [204.214.4.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA18693 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net by fly.HiWAAY.net; (8.8.2/1.1.8.2/21Sep95-1003PM) id VAA13661; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:56:34 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32952474.41C67EA6@hiwaay.net> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:56:36 -0600 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199611211714.SAA01528@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199611212046.NAA13887@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > <<< No Message Collected >>> Anybody have any idea why I have gotten about 20 of these in the last couple of hours? Is anybody else seeing this? Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 21:38:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA25047 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyslexic.phoenix.net (root@dyslexic.phoenix.net [199.3.233.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA25005 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:38:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by dyslexic.phoenix.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA05226; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:37:56 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:37:55 -0600 (CST) From: FreeBSD Acct To: michael butler cc: Jaye Mathisen , dwoods@netgazer.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Disk Striping In-Reply-To: <199611220108.MAA26336@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, michael butler wrote: > > It is, however, quite valid to stripe any one activity, such as scribbling > out the articles across multiple drives. You could, for example, use two > striped drives for the history stuff, one for the overview (only if you have > any readers) and two striped for the article spool to achieve what you're > after. Even better, split the two striped arrangements onto two separate > (SCSI) controllers, Our news servers here, are P166's with 128Mb each, with two Adaptec3940 PCI cards. There are four 4Gig drives, each has its own separage SCSI controller as the 3940 has two controllers per card. The drives are identical, and in a CCD array. The pair of news servers boots from IDE..and swaps on the IDE as well. *Yes, I know, the IDE isnt that fast for swap* But its rarely more than 20Mb into it anyway under INN 1.5pre. Compared to how we had the news farm before..the CCD is many many times faster and more efficient. Special thanks to Rod Grimes for suggesting a 64k block size on the CCD...you'll have to ask him why..he understands those FS kinda things... Geoff From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 22:07:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA26872 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:07:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA26866 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA14743; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:07:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611220607.WAA14743@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Snob Art Genre cc: Steven Wallace , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pentium Pro status In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:54:07 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:07:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, PPRO + 440FX is incompatible with a few chipsets mostly because the 440fx is PCI 2.0 . For instance, a friend of mine had horrible crashes with a diamond stealth and his 440fx when he switch to a matrox millenium the problem went away. The matrox meteor is supposed to generate an illegal PCI signal which kills the PCI bus on PPRO with the 440fx chipset. Memory aperture for speeding up raw displays is now the responsibility of the OS and not the BIOS so to get maximum display bandwith the OS or X server needs to program the chipset to disable caching on a given memory display region. Amancio >From The Desk Of Snob Art Genre : > On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Steven Wallace wrote: > > > > > I wanted some input regarding Pentium Pro machines. > > Has anyone had any problems with the hardware and/or using it with > > FreeBSD? > > > > Are there any problems with the PP chipset(is the latest Orion II or someth ing?) > > I remember hearing about PCI problems with the chipset. Someone > > told me they still have problems in orion II. Is this true? > > > > What motherboards for Pentium Pro are good and reliable? > > > > What about multiprocessor support? Does anyone have FreeBSD hacks to > > support multiple processors? How well is it working? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Steven Wallace > > I'm using a PPro-200 with the 440FX chipset, I don't remember its > nickname. I've had no problems with it at all. > > > > Ben > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 22:36:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA27963 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:36:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA27953 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA14959; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:36:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611220636.WAA14959@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jin Guojun[ITG]" cc: swallace@ece.uci.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pentium Pro status In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:39:11 PST." <199611212139.NAA12456@george.lbl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:36:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of "Jin Guojun[ITG]" : > Pentinum. > Some more performance comparsion willbe found on: > > ftp://george.lbl.gov/pub/ccs/performance.ps (p6-7 for P<-->PP). > It will be updated whenever the new board/machines come in. Do you mind upgrading your P6 to FreeBSD-2.2 and then running the benchmarks. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Nov 21 23:30:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA00763 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00737 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id SAA11415 Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:29:55 +1100 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199611220729.SAA11415@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Disk Striping In-Reply-To: from FreeBSD Acct at "Nov 21, 96 11:37:55 pm" To: freebsd@dyslexic.phoenix.net (FreeBSD Acct) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:29:54 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Our news servers here, are P166's with 128Mb each, with two Adaptec3940 > PCI cards. > There are four 4Gig drives, each has its own separage SCSI controller as > the 3940 has two controllers per card. > The drives are identical, and in a CCD array. [ .. ] > Compared to how we had the news farm before..the CCD is many many times > faster and more efficient. With no readers (and therefore no need for .overview files all over the place to mess things up), this combo will *scream* along quite happily at better than 10 articles a second iff the accesses for history and articles are on separate CCD arrays on separate channels. Short of getting "async" mode to work properly, there's not much better. The general principle is .. Seeks cost a lot, which can be relieved by configuring drives (amalgamated or not) to operate on only one part of the data set (history or articles but not both). Rotational latency costs less and can be divided by distributing across N drives in a CCD array, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 22 00:14:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA04619 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:14:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04614 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01262; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:13:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199611220813.JAA01262@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:13:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611220140.MAA16254@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Nov 22, 96 12:10:02 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Michael Smith who wrote: > > Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > > > > > That's all well and good, but it presents a chicken-and-egg situation > > > for anyone trying to work outside the decades-old BSD model. You may > > > not consider this a problem; I do. Opinions differ. > > > > Yes, but anyone capable of developing a 'cool tool' with TCL that we > > can't live w/out is capable of installing a port, and *then* showing me > > how wonderful it is to justify bringing in TCL as part of the base > > system. > > > > Put the cart *before* the horse. > > Chicken->egg, egg->chicken? I can say that I wouldn't have undertaken > what I have if Tcl wasn't a part of the standard system - too many people > would say "but it needs Tcl, and I don't want to install that because ...". Because they dont have the space ?? :) > I figure that once it is clear that Perl is intended to be a part of the > base system, and that it's a stable item not going anywhere, people > should pick up and start using it. > > And the ultimate comeback is; if I'm wrong, and after 12 months nothing > has made use of it and everybody hates it, it can go away again. At > that point, there can be (even though there would be 8) no argument. THAT has proven almost NEVER to happen :( it will stay and rot in a corner if that happens. What is really scaring is the sheer size of our repository, half a year ago I could have the whole CVS tree plus all CTM patches and and obj tree on one 500M disk, now only the CVS tree fits there, no CTM patches, no obj tree. All this **** and we haven gotten any significant new functionality :( With this current trend, we'll all be so busy putting in/maintaining all those *cool tools*, that no real work will be done, and stagnation on that part is not exactly what we need. I still vote for ripping out the old (rottet) perl, and TCL, and then put it in ports where it belongs. I anybody does a multo graeto tool they want us to use, they can easily get it to install those tools from ports during thier own install, no excuse there either. Or we should invent a system (which could be based on the current contrib system), where its selectable if you want those tools and the utils that *might* depend on them. This solution I could live with, and I'm sure many of the other "purists"... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Nov 22 00:37:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA06096 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (root@cyclone.degnet.baynet.de [194.95.214.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA06090 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from neuron (ppp2 [194.95.214.132]) by cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA29098; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:44:16 +0100 Message-ID: <329580BB.7E40@degnet.baynet.de> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:30:19 -0100 From: Darius Moos Reply-To: moos@degnet.baynet.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Diekhans CC: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Who needs Perl? We do! References: <199611212355.PAA29016@osprey.grizzly.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sure ... but i tried to compile Perl-5.002 with "-DUNEXEC" so the "dump