From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Feb 11 19:34:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10762 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 19:34:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecpi.com (ecpi.com [205.238.159.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10738 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 19:33:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tpatel@localhost) by ecpi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA10125 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:36:50 GMT From: Tushar Patel Message-Id: <199602112136.VAA10125@ecpi.com> Subject: Problem with dial-in/dial-out togather. To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:36:50 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to use same serial port for dialin line and for the dialout (fax). I am using "cuaa4" as dialout device and "ttyd4" as dialin device. When I enabled the "ttyd4" entry in the "/etc/ttys" file, ttyd4 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" dialin on I saw the following described problem. When I send the fax using "cuaa4" the fax goes through the first time after I have turned on the modem. When I tried to send the fax again then I get the message saying the cuaa4 device is busy. This problem goes away when I turned the "ttyd4" entry off. ttyd4 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" dialin off BTW, I am running FreeBSD 2.0.5. Has anybody seen any problem similar to this? Any suggestion in solving this problem? Any thing special I need to do after I send a fax to reinitialize the serial port? Thanks for taking time. Tushar From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Feb 11 23:23:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA04948 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 23:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA04937 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 23:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA18177; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 23:19:50 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 23:19:50 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602120619.XAA18177@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Tushar Patel Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problem with dial-in/dial-out togather. In-Reply-To: <199602112136.VAA10125@ecpi.com> References: <199602112136.VAA10125@ecpi.com> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tushar Patel writes: > I am trying to use same serial port for dialin line and for the dialout > (fax). I am using "cuaa4" as dialout device and "ttyd4" as dialin device. > > When I enabled the "ttyd4" entry in the "/etc/ttys" file, > > ttyd4 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" dialin on > > When I send the fax using "cuaa4" the fax goes through the first time > after I have turned on the modem. When I tried to send the fax again > then I get the message saying the cuaa4 device is busy. Is your modem setup correctly to handle both incoming/outgoing calls? I'm setup this way at home w/out problem, but I had to mess with the modem with regards to the modem control signals. However, that was over a year ago and I don't remember which ones. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Feb 12 07:50:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA06967 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 07:50:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from tempest.garply.com (root@tempest.garply.com [165.113.188.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06959 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 07:50:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.garply.com (matt@localhost.garply.com [127.0.0.1]) by tempest.garply.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA02477 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:50:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199602121550.JAA02477@tempest.garply.com> X-Authentication-Warning: tempest.garply.com: Host localhost.garply.com didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Matt Midboe" Subject: Web based admin tools? Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:50:08 -0600 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I was curious if anyone on this list would be interested in some tools that are used to add/delete/modify users/dns. The whole thing is handled through a web page so you can manage your users from anywhere with any browser. Also, it's simple enough anyone can use it. I am going to be adding stuff for problem tracking, and billing at some point. At the moment I was just writing all the stuff for my own edification but it hit me that someone else may find it useful. Basically you run a web server on a special port as root, and you .htaccess everything underneath it with passwords. So it seems fairly safe. I was thinking about trying to package it all up but only if anyone seemed interested in it. Matt matt@garply.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 01:45:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA26227 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 01:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecpi.com (ecpi.com [205.238.159.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA26216 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 01:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tpatel@localhost) by ecpi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA24234; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 03:49:09 GMT From: Tushar Patel Message-Id: <199602130349.DAA24234@ecpi.com> Subject: Nameserver stop working and error message? To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 03:49:09 +0000 () Cc: tpatel@ecpi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am having problem with my name server. It used to work fine. Now I get following error message. named[23178] Lame delegation to '12.IN-ADDR.ARPA' from [204.179.186.34] (server for '12.IN-ADDR.ARPA' ?) on query on name '243.233.222.12.in-addr.arpa' I have problem when I connect to the machineand start looking for the external names like "intel.com"I don't get any responce. I have the latest "named.root" file from INTERNIC. Can you please help me? Tha From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 02:31:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA29058 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 02:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from marikit.iphil.net (map@marikit.iphil.net [203.176.0.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA28922 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 02:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from map@localhost) by marikit.iphil.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id SAA22149; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:29:23 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" Message-Id: <199602131029.SAA22149@marikit.iphil.net> Subject: Re: Web based admin tools? To: matt@garply.com (Matt Midboe) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:29:23 +0800 (GMT+0800) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602121550.JAA02477@tempest.garply.com> from "Matt Midboe" at Feb 12, 96 09:50:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Matt Midboe wrote: > I was curious if anyone on this list would be interested in some tools that > are used to add/delete/modify users/dns. This would be interesting, to let your less technical staff take charge. I'm also working along the same lines, plus some enhanced RADIUS accounting. > I was thinking about trying to package it all up but only if anyone seemed > interested in it. That would be great for the FreeBSD community - how about making it available for FTP, then we can build upon it and make enhancements. -- miguel a.l. paraz -- map@iphil.net -- http://www.iphil.net/user/map/ iphil communications, makati city, philippines From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 02:36:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA29422 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 02:36:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from marikit.iphil.net (map@marikit.iphil.net [203.176.0.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA29416 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 02:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from map@localhost) by marikit.iphil.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id SAA22198 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:36:22 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" Message-Id: <199602131036.SAA22198@marikit.iphil.net> Subject: Multiport cards To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:36:22 +0800 (GMT+0800) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello! What multiport cards are you using for directly handling dialins - or are you all using terminal servers. I am currently using Cyclades under Linux with good results. Any recommendations? -- miguel a.l. paraz -- map@iphil.net -- http://www.iphil.net/user/map/ iphil communications, makati city, philippines From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 11:09:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA00116 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:09:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29987 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:09:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA23314; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:12:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:12:15 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602131912.MAA23314@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I *really* like having the firewall features I'm using now. I suppose I could simply stick my firewall box and whatever external equipment I use on a separate ethernet segment, although it would require me buying another ethernet card as well a Cisco or whatever. We're trying to do Video Conferencing, and ISDN isn't available in Montana (and won't be available for quite a while). The only option we have is F.R., either to our ISP or directly to SRI-Menlo. What kind of costs are we looking at here for the networking equipment, etc.? Thanks for any advice you can give, Nate From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 12:32:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA05626 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05620 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA03367; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:30:22 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602132030.OAA03367@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:30:22 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602131912.MAA23314@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 13, 96 12:12:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I *really* like having the firewall features I'm using now. I suppose I > could simply stick my firewall box and whatever external equipment I use > on a separate ethernet segment, although it would require me buying > another ethernet card as well a Cisco or whatever. > > We're trying to do Video Conferencing, and ISDN isn't available in > Montana (and won't be available for quite a while). The only option we > have is F.R., either to our ISP or directly to SRI-Menlo. > > What kind of costs are we looking at here for the networking equipment, > etc.? > > Thanks for any advice you can give, See http://www.etinc.com/... Dennis has a pretty decent product that looks like it would handle most FR needs with ease. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 13:43:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA09964 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:43:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ncd.com (firewall-user@welch.ncd.com [192.43.160.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09951 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by ncd.com; id NAA16421; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:47:22 -0800 Received: from z-code.z-code.com(192.82.56.21) by welch.ncd.com via smap (g3.0.1) id xma016414; Tue, 13 Feb 96 13:47:21 -0800 Received: from zolaris.z-code.com (zolaris.z-code.com [192.82.56.41]) by z-code.z-code.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA09673; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:40:33 -0800 Received: by zolaris.z-code.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01165; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:38:24 -0800 From: "Ulf Zimmermann" Message-Id: <9602131338.ZM1163@zolaris.z-code.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:38:22 -0800 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams "Frame Relay and FreeBSD" (Feb 13, 12:12) References: <199602131912.MAA23314@rocky.sri.MT.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 13, 12:12, Nate Williams wrote: > Subject: Frame Relay and FreeBSD > I *really* like having the firewall features I'm using now. I suppose I > could simply stick my firewall box and whatever external equipment I use > on a separate ethernet segment, although it would require me buying > another ethernet card as well a Cisco or whatever. > > We're trying to do Video Conferencing, and ISDN isn't available in > Montana (and won't be available for quite a while). The only option we > have is F.R., either to our ISP or directly to SRI-Menlo. > > What kind of costs are we looking at here for the networking equipment, > etc.? > > Thanks for any advice you can give, > > > > Nate >-- End of excerpt from Nate Williams So far my calculation for FR is: A Frame Relay card: ETinc.: ET/5025 56K/64K $495 V.35/EIA-530 option (for T1) $100 Frame Relay/X.25 $50 or ET5025-16 56K/64K $695 V.35/EIA-530 option (for T1) $100 (per port) Frame Relay/X.25 $200 Dual Port Option $100 or ET5025-25 T1 incl Frame Relay $1095 Dual Port Option $200 You need a CSU/DSU for this card, price for 56K/64K is about $250-$600, for 128K-1.5MB price is starting around $700 and up to $2000. Or you take cards from SDL Comm, which have only a Frame Relay driver for BSDI at the moment. But the cards are cheaper. RISCom/N2s 56K/64K $490 RISCom/N2d dual port 56K/64K $590 RISCom/N2dds dual port with one CSU/DSU on board 56K/64K $650 RISCom/N2csu dual port with one T1 CSU/DSU on board something around $1100 Frame Relay option for BSDI $150 About monthly Frame Relay I can't say anything, but in California I would pay about $275 for 128K Ulf. -- Ulf Zimmermann, NCD Software, 101 Rowland Way, Suite 300, Novato, CA 94945 phone: 415-899-7941, email: ulf@z-code.ncd.com, phone-home: 510-865-0204 ====================================== FreeBSD 2.1.0 is available now! -------------------------------------- FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations ====================================== From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 14:59:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA15546 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15537 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:59:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04864; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:59:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:59:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199602132259.RAA04864@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Nate Williams From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I *really* like having the firewall features I'm using now. I suppose I >could simply stick my firewall box and whatever external equipment I use >on a separate ethernet segment, although it would require me buying >another ethernet card as well a Cisco or whatever. > >We're trying to do Video Conferencing, and ISDN isn't available in >Montana (and won't be available for quite a while). The only option we >have is F.R., either to our ISP or directly to SRI-Menlo. > >What kind of costs are we looking at here for the networking equipment, >etc.? > >Thanks for any advice you can give, How about a $645. card, and you can keep your box :-) dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 15:02:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA15849 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA15827 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA24381; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:05:06 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:05:06 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602132305.QAA24381@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199602132259.RAA04864@etinc.com> References: <199602132259.RAA04864@etinc.com> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I *really* like having the firewall features I'm using now. I suppose I > >could simply stick my firewall box and whatever external equipment I use > >on a separate ethernet segment, although it would require me buying > >another ethernet card as well a Cisco or whatever. > > > >We're trying to do Video Conferencing, and ISDN isn't available in > >Montana (and won't be available for quite a while). The only option we > >have is F.R., either to our ISP or directly to SRI-Menlo. > > > >What kind of costs are we looking at here for the networking equipment, > >etc.? > > > >Thanks for any advice you can give, > > How about a $645. card, and you can keep your box :-) I just looked at your Web Page, and if I understand correctly that buys me: 1) Sync. card 2) Watchdog timer 3) F.R. protocol I'd still need to buy a CSU/DSU pair, correct? Also, can I buy a CSU/DSU that does 56/64K now, but can be switched to 128K or T1 at a later date? Will the card support both? Nate From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 15:07:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA16267 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16235 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id RAA00594; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:04:36 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602132304.RAA00594@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Driver for Hayes ESP cards.. To: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:04:35 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hey all, Has anyone looked into writing a driver for the Hayes ESP cards? http://www.hayes.com/esporder.htm ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 16:20:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19904 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:20:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19888 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA05047; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:20:13 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:20:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199602140020.TAA05047@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Ulf Zimmermann" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Feb 13, 12:12, Nate Williams wrote: >> Subject: Frame Relay and FreeBSD >> I *really* like having the firewall features I'm using now. I suppose I >> could simply stick my firewall box and whatever external equipment I use >> on a separate ethernet segment, although it would require me buying >> another ethernet card as well a Cisco or whatever. >> >> We're trying to do Video Conferencing, and ISDN isn't available in >> Montana (and won't be available for quite a while). The only option we >> have is F.R., either to our ISP or directly to SRI-Menlo. >> >> What kind of costs are we looking at here for the networking equipment, >> etc.? >> >> Thanks for any advice you can give, >> >> >> >> Nate >>-- End of excerpt from Nate Williams > >So far my calculation for FR is: > >A Frame Relay card: > >ETinc.: > >ET/5025 56K/64K $495 >V.35/EIA-530 option (for T1) $100 >Frame Relay/X.25 $50 > >or > >ET5025-16 56K/64K $695 >V.35/EIA-530 option (for T1) $100 (per port) >Frame Relay/X.25 $200 >Dual Port Option $100 > >or > >ET5025-25 T1 incl Frame Relay $1095 >Dual Port Option $200 > >You need a CSU/DSU for this card, price for 56K/64K is about $250-$600, for >128K-1.5MB price is starting around $700 and up to $2000. > >Or you take cards from SDL Comm, which have only a Frame Relay driver for BSDI >at the moment. But the cards are cheaper. > >RISCom/N2s 56K/64K $490 >RISCom/N2d dual port 56K/64K $590 >RISCom/N2dds dual port with one CSU/DSU on board 56K/64K $650 >RISCom/N2csu dual port with one T1 CSU/DSU on board something around $1100 >Frame Relay option for BSDI $150 > >About monthly Frame Relay I can't say anything, but in California I would pay >about $275 for 128K to clarify this.... Realize that you get software and support from BSDI (its their software)....with our product you buy the software (and get the support) from us. see www.etinc.com/compare.htm for the "biased" poop. BTW..we sell brand-name, high quality CSU/DSUs for (56/64k) 325. and 695. (T1) and lesser quality ones (still better than an on-board CSU) for $190 (56k) and $300. (T1....available any day now). db . From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 16:35:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA20809 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ncd.com (firewall-user@welch.ncd.com [192.43.160.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20804 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by ncd.com; id QAA29001; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:40:09 -0800 Received: from z-code.z-code.com(192.82.56.21) by welch.ncd.com via smap (g3.0.1) id xma028987; Tue, 13 Feb 96 16:39:56 -0800 Received: from zolaris.z-code.com (zolaris.z-code.com [192.82.56.41]) by z-code.z-code.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA11091; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:33:04 -0800 Received: by zolaris.z-code.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01431; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:30:55 -0800 From: "Ulf Zimmermann" Message-Id: <9602131630.ZM1429@zolaris.z-code.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:30:53 -0800 In-Reply-To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) "Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD" (Feb 13, 19:20) References: <199602140020.TAA05047@etinc.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 13, 19:20, dennis wrote: > Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD > >On Feb 13, 12:12, Nate Williams wrote: > >> Subject: Frame Relay and FreeBSD > >> I *really* like having the firewall features I'm using now. I suppose I > >> could simply stick my firewall box and whatever external equipment I use > >> on a separate ethernet segment, although it would require me buying > >> another ethernet card as well a Cisco or whatever. > >> > >> We're trying to do Video Conferencing, and ISDN isn't available in > >> Montana (and won't be available for quite a while). The only option we > >> have is F.R., either to our ISP or directly to SRI-Menlo. > >> > >> What kind of costs are we looking at here for the networking equipment, > >> etc.? > >> > >> Thanks for any advice you can give, > >> > >> > >> > >> Nate > >>-- End of excerpt from Nate Williams > > > >So far my calculation for FR is: > > > >A Frame Relay card: > > > >ETinc.: > > > >ET/5025 56K/64K $495 > >V.35/EIA-530 option (for T1) $100 > >Frame Relay/X.25 $50 > > > >or > > > >ET5025-16 56K/64K $695 > >V.35/EIA-530 option (for T1) $100 (per port) > >Frame Relay/X.25 $200 > >Dual Port Option $100 > > > >or > > > >ET5025-25 T1 incl Frame Relay $1095 > >Dual Port Option $200 > > > >You need a CSU/DSU for this card, price for 56K/64K is about $250-$600, for > >128K-1.5MB price is starting around $700 and up to $2000. > > > >Or you take cards from SDL Comm, which have only a Frame Relay driver for BSDI > >at the moment. But the cards are cheaper. > > > >RISCom/N2s 56K/64K $490 > >RISCom/N2d dual port 56K/64K $590 > >RISCom/N2dds dual port with one CSU/DSU on board 56K/64K $650 > >RISCom/N2csu dual port with one T1 CSU/DSU on board something around $1100 > >Frame Relay option for BSDI $150 > > > >About monthly Frame Relay I can't say anything, but in California I would pay > >about $275 for 128K > > to clarify this.... > > Realize that you get software and support from BSDI (its their > software)....with our > product you buy the software (and get the support) from us. > > see www.etinc.com/compare.htm for the "biased" poop. > > > BTW..we sell brand-name, high quality CSU/DSUs for (56/64k) 325. and 695. (T1) > and lesser quality ones (still better than an on-board CSU) for $190 (56k) and > $300. (T1....available any day now). > >-- End of excerpt from dennis Dennis, kick your webmaster that he should update the prices ;-) On the web is still $725 for T1. Look I have a price of $1100 from SDL Comm for a 2 port card with CSU/DSU on board and the BSDI Frame Relay option. (Btw. they claim they are better) Even if I take the smallest card from Etinc I have $495 (card) + $100 (V.35 option) + $50 (Frame Relay) + $695 (T1 CSU/DSU) = Total of $1340. With only 1 port and a card there ETinc's web page is saying for 56K/64K (it is some kind of confusing, to say 56K/64K but offer a T1 option). This $240 more then I have from SDL Comm, but SDL has no FreeBSD driver. I am trying at the moment to get $3000 together, so I can get me Frame Relay (128K as it looks like at the moment). That is $1009 for PB, $500 for the provider and rest for hardware I need. Ulf. -- ===================================| NCD Software Div. Z-Code, SysAdmin FreeBSD 2.1.0 is available now! | Phone: 415-899-7941 Fax: 898-8299 -----------------------------------| Rowland Way 101, Novato, CA-94945 Turning PCs into Workstations | E-Mail: ulf@ncd.com ===================================| Phone @home: 510-865-0204 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 17:22:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23331 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:22:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23326 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA05186; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:22:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:22:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199602140122.UAA05186@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Ulf Zimmermann" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Feb 13, 19:20, dennis wrote: >> Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD >> >On Feb 13, 12:12, Nate Williams wrote: >> >> Subject: Frame Relay and FreeBSD >> >> I *really* like having the firewall features I'm using now. I suppose I >> >> could simply stick my firewall box and whatever external equipment I use >> >> on a separate ethernet segment, although it would require me buying >> >> another ethernet card as well a Cisco or whatever. >> >> >> >> We're trying to do Video Conferencing, and ISDN isn't available in >> >> Montana (and won't be available for quite a while). The only option we >> >> have is F.R., either to our ISP or directly to SRI-Menlo. >> >> >> >> What kind of costs are we looking at here for the networking equipment, >> >> etc.? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any advice you can give, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Nate >> >>-- End of excerpt from Nate Williams >> > >> >So far my calculation for FR is: >> > >> >A Frame Relay card: >> > >> >ETinc.: >> > >> >ET/5025 56K/64K $495 >> >V.35/EIA-530 option (for T1) $100 >> >Frame Relay/X.25 $50 >> > >> >or >> > >> >ET5025-16 56K/64K $695 >> >V.35/EIA-530 option (for T1) $100 (per port) >> >Frame Relay/X.25 $200 >> >Dual Port Option $100 >> > >> >or >> > >> >ET5025-25 T1 incl Frame Relay $1095 >> >Dual Port Option $200 >> > >> >You need a CSU/DSU for this card, price for 56K/64K is about $250-$600, for >> >128K-1.5MB price is starting around $700 and up to $2000. >> > >> >Or you take cards from SDL Comm, which have only a Frame Relay driver for >BSDI >> >at the moment. But the cards are cheaper. >> > >> >RISCom/N2s 56K/64K $490 >> >RISCom/N2d dual port 56K/64K $590 >> >RISCom/N2dds dual port with one CSU/DSU on board 56K/64K $650 >> >RISCom/N2csu dual port with one T1 CSU/DSU on board something around $1100 >> >Frame Relay option for BSDI $150 >> > >> >About monthly Frame Relay I can't say anything, but in California I would >pay >> >about $275 for 128K >> >> to clarify this.... >> >> Realize that you get software and support from BSDI (its their >> software)....with our >> product you buy the software (and get the support) from us. >> >> see www.etinc.com/compare.htm for the "biased" poop. >> >> >> BTW..we sell brand-name, high quality CSU/DSUs for (56/64k) 325. and 695. >(T1) >> and lesser quality ones (still better than an on-board CSU) for $190 (56k) >and >> $300. (T1....available any day now). >> >>-- End of excerpt from dennis > >Dennis, > >kick your webmaster that he should update the prices ;-) On the web is still >$725 for T1. Look I have a price of $1100 from SDL Comm for a 2 port card with >CSU/DSU on board and the BSDI Frame Relay option. (Btw. they claim they are >better) Even if I take the smallest card from Etinc I have $495 (card) + $100 >(V.35 option) + $50 (Frame Relay) + $695 (T1 CSU/DSU) = Total of $1340. With >only 1 port and a card there ETinc's web page is saying for 56K/64K (it is some >kind of confusing, to say 56K/64K but offer a T1 option). This $240 more then I >have from SDL Comm, but SDL has no FreeBSD driver. > >I am trying at the moment to get $3000 together, so I can get me Frame Relay >(128K as it looks like at the moment). That is $1009 for PB, $500 for the >provider and rest for hardware I need. I suspect that you've only read the pricelist and not the other 28 pages so that you'd know what you're buying. $725. includes the V.35 cable....$695. without. You wouldn't want to use the ET/5025 for T1, so for T1 it would be $995. + $725. for the first one, about 150 less for subsequent ones. You gotta pay for a mercedes, man. but you're gonna use it every day....get something good. our 56/64k boards have RS-232 interfaces..You can try to run it at T1 if you like. You need V.35 or X.21 or EIA-530 to run T1, which is an add-on option. Our 56k boards have the same RISC processor as our T1 boards...theirs is a clunker. Our dual port card has 2 CPUs on it....so it costs extra. The day that SDL has any product better than ours is the day that I retire. First they dont even have a real protocol engine for FR.....just "wrapper encapsulation". A traceroute on their web site and "server" would suggest that they don't even use their own products. .After 2 years in "beta" with their frame relay its suddenly 'better" than ours... Hehehehehehehehehe, LOL...... Its your money...you get what you pay for...spend it as you like......You can get a Yugo for $250. Do you drive one? Quoting price only (as if all products are created equal) is irresponsible. You're gonna pay (how much?) a month and you're gonna scrimp on your interface? Now lets keep this off the lists 'cause we're just gonna make everyone angry..... db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 18:05:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26477 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:05:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA26465 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:05:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA16901; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:05:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199602140205.VAA16901@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: "Ulf Zimmermann" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:30:53 PST." <9602131630.ZM1429@zolaris.z-code.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:05:33 -0500 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I am trying at the moment to get $3000 together, so I can get me Frame Relay > (128K as it looks like at the moment). That is $1009 for PB, $500 for the > provider and rest for hardware I need. > > Ulf. You guys should also look at the relative cost of an external, standalone Ascend Pipeline 50 LS56 router, which has an ethernet interface and a 56K DDS leased line interface (with built-in CSU/DSU). I'm using one of these things at home, and it works really, really great. Its physically the same size as the Pipeline 50 ISDN router. For T1 upgrade paths, you might also look at the newly announced Pipeline 130 router, which I think has ISDN, 56K and T1 interfaces. I don't know what it costs. http://www.ascend.com louie From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Feb 13 22:16:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA14301 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:16:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA14083 Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:14:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA08874; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:11:28 +1100 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:11:28 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602140611.RAA08874@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Driver for Hayes ESP cards.. Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Has anyone looked into writing a driver for the Hayes ESP cards? No one has even reported using the one in -current ;-(. Bruce From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 01:52:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA04194 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA04183 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA05789; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:51:03 -0800 To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Driver for Hayes ESP cards.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:04:35 CST." <199602132304.RAA00594@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:51:03 -0800 Message-ID: <5787.824291463@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk /sys/i386/isa/sio.c: revision 1.131 date: 1995/12/29 12:50:54; author: bde; state: Exp; lines: +120 -1 Added support for the Hayes ESP serial card. Submitted by: Sean Eric Fagan (sef@kithrup.com) Based on code by John Vinopal (banshee@resort.com) Cosmetic (I hope) changes by me (bde). :-) Jordan > Hey all, > > Has anyone looked into writing a driver for the Hayes ESP cards? > > http://www.hayes.com/esporder.htm > > ... Joe > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 05:39:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA27289 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 05:39:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.isn.net (root@NS1.ISN.NET [199.45.127.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA27282 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 05:39:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.isn.net (unlucky.isn.net [199.45.127.113]) by phoenix.isn.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA12958 for < isp@freebsd.org>; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:39:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199602141339.JAA12958@phoenix.isn.net> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 08:08:10 EST From: ctassell@isn.net (Charles Tassell) Reply-To: ctassell@isn.net (Charles Tassell) To: isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Charles Tassell's PMMail v1.1 Subject: Routing question Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have a question about routing one Network from a remote HUB into an ISP. We want to run a Fiber line from the remote HUB to our ISP, and let all the machines on the HUB (some of which are connected to a Novell 3.1 server, some not) access the internet with Winsock PPP software. What sort of routing equipment, if any, do we need? Can we just chuck a RisCOM router card in our ISP and leave it to that, or is this oing to involve a full router box. Also, if we do the same thing on multiple remote sites, would we be better off putting another box in our office to take all these remotes in, then spit 'em back out to the inet? You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge, I'm not exactly a network guru.. Charles Tassell - ctassell@isn.net http://www.isn.net/~ctassell/index.html Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the least.... From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 08:22:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA23187 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:22:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA23163 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA01239; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:21:32 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602141621.KAA01239@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Driver for Hayes ESP cards.. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:21:32 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602140611.RAA08874@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Feb 14, 96 05:11:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >Has anyone looked into writing a driver for the Hayes ESP cards? > > No one has even reported using the one in -current ;-(. Hi Bruce, I wasn't aware there was one. I am supping an update now. I don't have one of these cards, (yet?), but it seemed like an interesting offer. The Hayes pricing still seems steep though. Question: I expect the answer is "no" (I'll look at the sources shortly), but do the changes actually use the ESP card in the ESP mode, or just in 16550-sorta-compat mode? I'd be delighted to hear "yes" :-) Thanks as always, ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 10:36:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05819 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:36:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05813 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id FAA05559; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 05:31:31 +1100 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 05:31:31 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602141831.FAA05559@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Driver for Hayes ESP cards.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Question: I expect the answer is "no" (I'll look at the sources shortly), >but do the changes actually use the ESP card in the ESP mode, or just in >16550-sorta-compat mode? I'd be delighted to hear "yes" :-) It's supposed to give only 16550 compatibility mode with a 1K fifo. I think the large fifo got lost in porting. (FIFO_DMA_MODE | ... | FIFO_RX_MEDH) gets uselessly (?) written to the fifo control register but com->fifo_image doesn't get initialized to match; it is initialized later with different values. I can't test this. Bruce From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 10:45:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA06291 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06286 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA06729; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:45:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:45:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199602141845.NAA06729@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Louis A. Mamakos" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >> I am trying at the moment to get $3000 together, so I can get me Frame Relay >> (128K as it looks like at the moment). That is $1009 for PB, $500 for the >> provider and rest for hardware I need. >> >> Ulf. > >You guys should also look at the relative cost of an external, >standalone Ascend Pipeline 50 LS56 router, which has an ethernet >interface and a 56K DDS leased line interface (with built-in CSU/DSU). > >I'm using one of these things at home, and it works really, really >great. Its physically the same size as the Pipeline 50 ISDN router. > >For T1 upgrade paths, you might also look at the newly announced >Pipeline 130 router, which I think has ISDN, 56K and T1 interfaces. I >don't know what it costs. > eeee-gads...why? Can it by my firewall? can I add an ethernet for $60.? Can I add a T1 for $200? Can it serve my Web pages? can it be my E-mail server? A good rule of thumb: If you know un*x, use un*x....if you don't, use something else. db From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 11:41:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08526 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08521 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA29287; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:41:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:41:31 -0800 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199602141941.LAA29287@kithrup.com> To: dennis@etinc.com, louie@TransSys.COM Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >eeee-gads...why? Can it by my firewall? can I add an ethernet for $60.? Can >I add a T1 >for $200? Can it serve my Web pages? can it be my E-mail server? Can your Web or e-mail server boot up in 30 seconds or less? Does your Web or e-mail server have NO moving parts? Can your Web or e-mail server function without a keyboard, monitor, monitor card, disk drive, floppy drive, etc? Can you fit 10-15 of your Web or e-mail servers in the space taken up by a standard large tower PC case? Sean. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 12:07:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09689 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:07:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nash.pubnix.net (PubNIX.NET [198.168.73.135]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09683 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from andrew@localhost) by nash.pubnix.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA17395; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:07:33 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:07:33 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Webster To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: RADIUS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is there anyone working on RADIUS support for FreeBSD so that it can be used as a smart terminal server? Thanks! Andrew Webster - http://www.pubnix.net/~andrew PubNIX Montreal - Connected to the world - Branche au monde 514-990-5911 - P.O. Box 147, Cote St-Luc, Quebec, H4V 2Y3 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 12:46:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA12920 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:46:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12901 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA06973; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:34:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:34:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199602142034.PAA06973@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Sean Eric Fagan From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>eeee-gads...why? Can it by my firewall? can I add an ethernet for $60.? Can >>I add a T1 >>for $200? Can it serve my Web pages? can it be my E-mail server? > >Can your Web or e-mail server boot up in 30 seconds or less? yes...maybe 32... > >Does your Web or e-mail server have NO moving parts? >Can your Web or e-mail server function without a keyboard, monitor, monitor >card, disk drive, floppy drive, etc? This is pretty stupid.....because you still need a server....so the answer is that there are no ADDITIONAL moving parts....yes. This moving parts argument really cracks me up....my novell server has been up for 18months....... :-) >Can you fit 10-15 of your Web or e-mail servers in the space taken >up by standard large tower PC case? Why would you do this when you could just buy a single router? If you dont have room in your office for a PC then you are correct....otherwise you're not. The bottom line is that an external router vs a card: -adds a hop. -routes with a much slower processor -has fewer features -is less expandable -costs more other than that....its a good idea. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 13:20:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15201 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA15196 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30832-25136>; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:22:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:22:45 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: dennis@etinc.com, louie@TransSys.COM, isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199602141941.LAA29287@kithrup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > >eeee-gads...why? Can it by my firewall? can I add an ethernet for $60.? Can > >I add a T1 > >for $200? Can it serve my Web pages? can it be my E-mail server? > > Can your Web or e-mail server boot up in 30 seconds or less? No, but I've never seen one that does. > Does your Web or e-mail server have NO moving parts? No, but I've never seen one that does. > Can your Web or e-mail server function without a keyboard, monitor, monitor > card, disk drive, floppy drive, etc? No, but I've never seen one that does. > Can you fit 10-15 of your Web or e-mail servers in the space taken up by a > standard large tower PC case? Probably, not but I don't use any non-rackmount equipment. Tom From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 13:35:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15923 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA15917 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:35:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA01656; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:31:41 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602142131.PAA01656@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD To: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:31:40 -0600 (CST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, louie@transsys.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602141941.LAA29287@kithrup.com> from "Sean Eric Fagan" at Feb 14, 96 11:41:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > >eeee-gads...why? Can it by my firewall? can I add an ethernet for $60.? Can > >I add a T1 > >for $200? Can it serve my Web pages? can it be my E-mail server? > > Can your Web or e-mail server boot up in 30 seconds or less? yes > Does your Web or e-mail server have NO moving parts? no > Can your Web or e-mail server function without a keyboard, monitor, monitor > card, disk drive, floppy drive, etc? yes, actually it could > Can you fit 10-15 of your Web or e-mail servers in the space taken up by a > standard large tower PC case? maybe. Kids, kids. Quit the bickering. We all know that FreeBSD sucks and Linux rules. This is the same argument, just different specifics. A FreeBSD based router has many advantages. Standard PC parts. Same OS you use for everything else. Unified management, backup, monitoring strategies. Inexpensive. You get the source. Many other advantages. A dedicated (Cisco, etc) router has many advantages. No moving parts. Generally tends to be optimized for the job. More specialized networking abilities. Many other advantages. But NEITHER is the right choice for ALL situations. I've been served well by my FreeBSD-based routers. I'm well aware of people who have been served well by Cisco routers. Look for the solution that gets the job done in the most appropriate fashion in your environment, and then do it. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 14:03:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17621 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:03:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (root@gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17616 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:03:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by gallup.cia-g.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA08387; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:02:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:02:18 -0700 (MST) From: Stephen Fisher To: dennis cc: "Louis A. Mamakos" , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199602141845.NAA06729@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, dennis wrote: > >You guys should also look at the relative cost of an external, > >standalone Ascend Pipeline 50 LS56 router, which has an ethernet > >interface and a 56K DDS leased line interface (with built-in CSU/DSU). > >I'm using one of these things at home, and it works really, really > >great. Its physically the same size as the Pipeline 50 ISDN router. > >For T1 upgrade paths, you might also look at the newly announced > >Pipeline 130 router, which I think has ISDN, 56K and T1 interfaces. I > >don't know what it costs. > > eeee-gads...why? Can it by my firewall? can I add an ethernet for $60.? Can "Real" routers can be real firewalls, and they have built in ethernet, > I add a T1 > for $200? Can it serve my Web pages? can it be my E-mail server? Usually built in T-1 and up. > A good rule of thumb: If you know un*x, use un*x....if you don't, use > something else. Not necessarily. But no they can't run your e-mail and webpages -- those should be on another computer anyway. - Steve From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 14:37:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19490 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:37:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19485 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:37:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA07196; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:37:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:37:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199602142237.RAA07196@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Stephen Fisher From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >But no they can't run your e-mail and webpages -- those should be on >another computer anyway. porque? sometimes this is true...but anyone using a small, desktop router could most likely benefit functionally, performance and dollar-wise with a single solution. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 14:46:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19824 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19817 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA05910; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:38:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199602142238.PAA05910@rover.village.org> To: Joe Greco Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan), dennis@etinc.com, louie@transsys.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:31:40 CST Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:38:03 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk One thing to keep in mind is that PCs also come in 4"x4"x4" cubes that are expandible via PC-104 bus cards. Something like this could easily stack like firewood to fill a small space in little time. Put a ramdisk or flashram card inot this mix, run FreeBSD on it and you have a nice little box. I believe that these boxes are 100% PC compatible, but am not 100% positive. They are showing up in places like the Circuit Cellar magazine. I don't hink you'll find a pentium on one of these boxes, but I recall seeing 386 and 486 in them. So not all PC's are what you think they are :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 15:10:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21006 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21001 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:10:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA00950; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:06:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602142306.QAA00950@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD To: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:06:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, louie@TransSys.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602141941.LAA29287@kithrup.com> from "Sean Eric Fagan" at Feb 14, 96 11:41:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >eeee-gads...why? Can it by my firewall? can I add an ethernet for $60.? Can > >I add a T1 > >for $200? Can it serve my Web pages? can it be my E-mail server? > > Can your Web or e-mail server boot up in 30 seconds or less? IF you have a swap area that is the size of usable swap *plus* the size of memory *AND* You add state save/restore patches, THEN the answer is 15-20 seconds. The answer is about 30-40 seconds for an install, if the install calculates (and you immediately accept) reasonable minimal config defaults. > Does your Web or e-mail server have NO moving parts? Do fans count? 8-). > Can your Web or e-mail server function without a keyboard, monitor, monitor > card, disk drive, floppy drive, etc? Does "etc." include Flash-ATA? 8-). > Can you fit 10-15 of your Web or e-mail servers in the space taken up by a > standard large tower PC case? Do portables count? You pay a premium for density... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 18:06:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA02564 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:06:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ncd.com (firewall-user@welch.ncd.com [192.43.160.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA02542 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by ncd.com; id SAA06051; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:11:06 -0800 Received: from z-code.z-code.com(192.82.56.21) by welch.ncd.com via smap (g3.0.1) id xma006044; Wed, 14 Feb 96 18:10:56 -0800 Received: from zolaris.z-code.com (zolaris.z-code.com [192.82.56.41]) by z-code.z-code.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA20842; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:03:24 -0800 Received: by zolaris.z-code.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02852; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:01:16 -0800 From: "Ulf Zimmermann" Message-Id: <9602141801.ZM2850@zolaris.z-code.com> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:01:15 -0800 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD" (Feb 14, 16:06) References: <199602142306.QAA00950@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: isp@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, ok, now some more news about Frame Relay :) The company Sourcecom has a ISA/EISA card which which just get the power from the PC (as far I can see this from their web page). It has a RJ45 ethernet and a V.35 port up to T1. Price for this card is $679 at Datacom Warehouse. PCI card version for $859. It supports Frame Relay (RFC1490, Q.920, Q.921 & Q.922, Annex 'D & LMI, up to 24 PVC's), PPP (LCP (RFC1661), IPCP (RFC1332), IPXCP (RFC1552), BNCP (RFC1638), HDLC. Many software feature. Take a look at http://www.sourcecom.com/. And Ascend sells now the Pipeline 130, with 1 Ethernet port, 1 WAN port with T1 CSU/DSU and 1 ISDN BRI port. List price $1995. Ulf. -- ===================================| NCD Software Div. Z-Code, SysAdmin FreeBSD 2.1.0 is available now! | Phone: 415-899-7941 Fax: 898-8299 -----------------------------------| Rowland Way 101, Novato, CA-94945 Turning PCs into Workstations | E-Mail: ulf@ncd.com ===================================| Phone @home: 510-865-0204 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 20:46:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA11933 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:46:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from marikit.iphil.net (marikit.iphil.net [203.176.0.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA11921 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from map@localhost) by marikit.iphil.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id MAA08392; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:44:10 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" Message-Id: <199602150444.MAA08392@marikit.iphil.net> Subject: Re: RADIUS To: andrew@nash.pubnix.net (Andrew Webster) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:44:10 +0800 (GMT+0800) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Webster" at Feb 14, 96 03:07:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andrew Webster wrote: > Is there anyone working on RADIUS support for FreeBSD so that it can be > used as a smart terminal server? Yes, I am going to put some work into this. I already have the Livingston radiusd with the SLIP/CSLIP/PPP patches installed, plus some other patches of my own. This already works with a Portmaster that I borrowed, for reference purposes. I also have the RADIUS client login for Linux, and will study how it can be nicely injected into the BSD login - replacing the getpwent() call with a RADIUS authentication request. This Linux code does not support RADIUS accounting; I plan to put that in by taking it backwards from the server code. Along this line, I previously asked for suggestions on good multiport cards to use for FreeBSD. I also plan to stick a sync serial board to make the system a one-box solution for ISPs. I would appreciate advice on how to use such a system where user accounts are divided between different boxes. Would NIS/NIS+ do it? Or perhaps, a distributed RADIUS system like in the (complicated) Merit radiusd? Any suggestions or code are appreciated! -- miguel a.l. paraz -- map@iphil.net -- http://www.iphil.net/user/map/ iphil communications, makati city, philippines From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 21:45:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA14143 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 21:45:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from black.gensys.com (black.gensys.com [206.109.98.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14138 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 21:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhupp@localhost) by black.gensys.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA02914; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:44:14 -0600 From: Jeff Hupp Message-Id: <199602150544.XAA02914@black.gensys.com> Subject: Re: RADIUS To: map@iphil.net (Miguel A.L. Paraz) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:44:13 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602150444.MAA08392@marikit.iphil.net> from "Miguel A.L. Paraz" at Feb 15, 96 12:44:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Andrew Webster wrote: > > > > Is there anyone working on RADIUS support for FreeBSD so that it can be > > used as a smart terminal server? > > Yes, I am going to put some work into this. > > Any suggestions or code are appreciated! The Houston (Tx, USA) computer club's Internet system is running a radiusd that I have hacked on. It provides access classes via the CLASS field in the FreeBSD user database (Major classes are RLOGIN, SLIP, CSLIP, PPP but specific users can be added to the /etc/raddb/users file for dedicated links, demos w/out access to the Unix box, etc) and each class only takes one entry in the /etc/raddb/users file (the lookup in this file is done on the CLASS field, not the login name) allowing us to completely ignore the the /etc/raddb/users file when creating accounts ~ all we do is set the class field to RLOGIN, SLIP, CSLIP, or PPP and the user gets that type of connection. The user also has a shell account that (s)he can telnet into via their IP connection or from a remote host to access Unix services. We have also hacked chpass(1) to take a -c option and allow the user to change their class at will. The radiusd from Livingston is quite hackable, and you an do just about anything with it you want. We are running four 30 line portmasters with a total of 120 lines, and keep all the user accounts (1400+) on one FreeBSD box ~ most users don't touch it. It's also our web (http://hal-pc.org) server and mail server. We have a separate box for news. We love FreeBSD.... If there is intrest in this, I'll spend some time making it into a package/port. -- X, windows done right... Jeff Hupp PGP Public Key available at http://gensys.com or on the key servers From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Feb 14 23:00:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA16592 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA16574 Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:00:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA28634; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 02:00:28 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 02:00:27 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Rashid Karimov cc: lray@aurora.liunet.edu, FREEBSD-QUESTIONS-L , FREEBSD-ISP-L Subject: Building a large FreeBSD news server In-Reply-To: <199502150637.BAA29572@rk.ios.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Feb 1995, Rashid Karimov wrote: > > Have you tried renumbering your active file to see if that fixes > > the problem? See the ctlinnd command. > > yes , it should solve the problem ... Good advice is to > get and read thru the INN FAQ - it's absolutely the Best > FAQ IMHO. Yep, people aren't kidding when they say that. Between the FAQ and the Install.[12] documentation with inn-1.4unoff3, I was able to get my very first large-scale INN server running in about an hour after unpacking the source. Within a day, I was running crossfeeds with 4 other sites. For something as complex as Usenet news administration, it was dead simple to setup. > what is expirience with running FreeBSD PCs as INND > servers with full news feed ? Is it capable of handling > the load ? Any IO/CPU limitations ? I have the same questions, since I'm just starting out here. My server will be going into full production mode within a few days (it's been running with about a dozen beta testers for a week now). > I run P6-200 here as news server - runs just fine, load > averages are ~0.3-0.5 , readers peak at ~200-300, total > of ~23.000 newsgroups in active, 3 days expire average, > 370.000 - 420.000 inodes used in /usr/spool/uucp. P133, 128 megabytes RAM, 3 NCR53c810 controllers and nine disks to be split up thusly (I don't have all the controllers plugged in yet): sd0 1GB /, /usr, /var, swap sd1 2GB /usr/local/news sd2 2GB /var/spool/news/alt sd10 2GB /var/spool/news, swap sd11 2GB /var/spool/news/over.db sd12 2GB /var/spool/news/out.going, /var/spool/uucp sd20 2GB /var/spool/news/comp, /var/spool/news/soc, swap sd21 2GB /var/spool/news/misc, /var/spool/news/rec sd22 4GB /var/spool/news/alt/binaries At the moment, I have the news spool spread over two 2GB Quantum Atlas drives and a 4GB Quantum Grand Prix, running off a single Buslogics BT-946C controller. It receives about 120,000 articles a day (900MB or so), with 20000 groups in the active file. Only about 7000 of those actually have articles in them so far. ;-) I have the history database, the overview files and the alt.binaries spool on a single disk on the current machine, and that disk is getting hit pretty hard according to iostat. That's being split across three spindles and three controllers in the production machine, so disk I/O should not be a problem. A delayed expire run takes less than 5 minutes to generate the list of articles to delete, which fastrm processes in about 30 minutes. I expect that to rise once we get a hundred readers on it at once, and more articles to expire. It seems INN is only spooling about 2 articles per second, peaking at around 5/sec for very short periods of time. Perhaps this will improve once I'm using multiple controllers and more disks? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 00:05:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18772 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA18752 Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:05:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tmyf2-0003wZC; Thu, 15 Feb 96 00:03 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA01510; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:31:38 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Warner Losh cc: Joe Greco , sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan), dennis@etinc.com, louie@transsys.com, hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:38:03 MST." <199602142238.PAA05910@rover.village.org> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:31:37 +0100 Message-ID: <1508.824369497@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > One thing to keep in mind is that PCs also come in 4"x4"x4" cubes that > are expandible via PC-104 bus cards. Something like this could easily > stack like firewood to fill a small space in little time. Put a > ramdisk or flashram card inot this mix, run FreeBSD on it and you have > a nice little box. I believe that these boxes are 100% PC compatible, > but am not 100% positive. They are showing up in places like the > Circuit Cellar magazine. I don't hink you'll find a pentium on one of > these boxes, but I recall seeing 386 and 486 in them. These are the absolute craze in automation and industrial environments. You can get P5s, I've even seen a P6 prerelease. Mostly you get a cpu card with all the std: ram sockets, 2s1p, 2ide, 1fd and a pc/104 and a ISA connector. You can then either put them in a passive ISA bus, or use the PC/104 or both. You can stack a 16 port server into no space with these. I have personally seen one 19" rack unit about 8" high, contain a server (4G/32G/P5/90) and four clients (0G/16M/486/66) where each of the clients had 32 serial ports. Inside the box was a 1' ethernet, and the server had a second ethernet to "the big world". The point about this, in the words of the owner: "The users run no processes on the server. It's almost impossible to hack it. They can try to hack the client, but it will reboot if it think it has been hacked, and on a reboot everything is rebuilt from the servers R/O copy so it's a shortlived glory." Of course the modems took up 10 times as much space... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 00:12:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA19234 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:12:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA19229 Thu, 15 Feb 1996 00:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA00277; Wed, 15 Feb 1995 03:11:59 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199502150811.DAA00277@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: Building a large FreeBSD news server To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 03:11:59 -0500 (EST) Cc: lray@aurora.liunet.edu, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Feb 15, 96 02:00:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi again :), > > > what is expirience with running FreeBSD PCs as INND > > servers with full news feed ? Is it capable of handling > > the load ? Any IO/CPU limitations ? > > I have the same questions, since I'm just starting out here. My > server will be going into full production mode within a few days (it's > been running with about a dozen beta testers for a week now). > > > I run P6-200 here as news server - runs just fine, load > > averages are ~0.3-0.5 , readers peak at ~200-300, total > > of ~23.000 newsgroups in active, 3 days expire average, > > 370.000 - 420.000 inodes used in /usr/spool/uucp. > > P133, 128 megabytes RAM, 3 NCR53c810 controllers and nine disks > to be split up thusly (I don't have all the controllers plugged in > yet): > At the moment, I have the news spool spread over two 2GB Quantum > Atlas drives and a 4GB Quantum Grand Prix, running off a single > Buslogics BT-946C controller. It receives about 120,000 articles a > day (900MB or so), with 20000 groups in the active file. Only about > 7000 of those actually have articles in them so far. ;-) > > I have the history database, the overview files and the > alt.binaries spool on a single disk on the current machine, and that > disk is getting hit pretty hard according to iostat. That's being > split across three spindles and three controllers in the production > machine, so disk I/O should not be a problem. > > A delayed expire run takes less than 5 minutes to generate the > list of articles to delete, which fastrm processes in about 30 > minutes. I expect that to rise once we get a hundred readers on it at > once, and more articles to expire. > > It seems INN is only spooling about 2 articles per second, peaking > at around 5/sec for very short periods of time. Perhaps this will > improve once I'm using multiple controllers and more disks? It's interesting thing , actually ... I was trying to get some estimates on articles/sec rate. Folx at n.s.n say that it should indeed peak at 5 arts/sec for a decent feed, so I decided to check what an ftp rate would be on a local 10Mb LAN. I've tried it on FreeBSD <> FreeBSD ( P166 <> P6-200) Sun20 <> FreeBSD Sun20 <> Sun10 LocalFreeBSD <> LocalFreeBSD with 100 small files(2K) with prompt off. Guess what ! It was steady (!!!) 100 files in 20 secs , or ~5 files/sec in ALL CASES. I've tried to do ftp to the same PC from 2 different machines at the same time. It took ~23 sec to upload 200 files (100 from each PC). So it looks like for small articles/multiple feeds (and fast links :) the upper limit could be bigger than 5art/sec ( putting aside the difference " ftp versus nntp"). Other thing is that on th eame link it will take ~0.25 sec to transfer single 200K file , and even less if the thing is compressed , so batched newsfeed looks like reasonable alternative, especially for a stub news server, when one knows for sure that there won't be no "blanks" in the batch - I mean the articles the site already has. With multiple feeds the effective loss of the BW will be much bigger , especially if the server ( say, small ISP) will provide transit for the newsfeed from one major peer to another. Probably it has sense to inject only articles which were originated locally , but it's often not the point when all peers are equally interested in getting full newsfeed from each other trying to get news articles as fast as possible. Rashid From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 01:21:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA21984 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 01:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from marikit.iphil.net (map@marikit.iphil.net [203.176.0.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21979 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 01:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from map@localhost) by marikit.iphil.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id RAA09986; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:20:21 +0800 From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" Message-Id: <199602150920.RAA09986@marikit.iphil.net> Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:20:21 +0800 (GMT+0800) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602142238.PAA05910@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Feb 14, 96 03:38:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh wrote: > Put a ramdisk or flashram card inot this mix, run FreeBSD on it and you have > a nice little box. Would you know how to make FreeBSD boot from flash? It would be great for making terminal server/router boxes, with no fear of hard disk crashes... -- miguel a.l. paraz -- map@iphil.net -- http://www.iphil.net/user/map/ iphil communications, makati city, philippines From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 04:25:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA28412 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 04:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from guardian.fortress.org (fortress.org [199.84.158.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA28406 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 04:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from andrew@localhost) by guardian.fortress.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA16897; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:25:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:25:18 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Webster Reply-To: andrew@pubnix.net To: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RADIUS In-Reply-To: <199602150444.MAA08392@marikit.iphil.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Miguel A.L. Paraz wrote: > Andrew Webster wrote: > > > > Is there anyone working on RADIUS support for FreeBSD so that it can be > > used as a smart terminal server? > > Yes, I am going to put some work into this. > > I already have the Livingston radiusd with the SLIP/CSLIP/PPP > patches installed, plus some other patches of my own. This > already works with a Portmaster that I borrowed, for reference > purposes. > > I also have the RADIUS client login for Linux, and will study how it > can be nicely injected into the BSD login - replacing > the getpwent() call with a RADIUS authentication request. This Linux > code does not support RADIUS accounting; I plan to put that in > by taking it backwards from the server code. Sounds like you are ahead of the game with the work you've already done! > > Along this line, I previously asked for suggestions on good > multiport cards to use for FreeBSD. I also plan to stick a > sync serial board to make the system a one-box solution > for ISPs. I use a pair of Digipoard PC/8 cards with 16550uarts, ports are running at 38400 and 57600 on a P-100 system which is acting as a new server and virtual host box for PubNIX Montreal. Works great. I am interested in RADIUS as a method to try and get the user database under one roof. > I would appreciate advice on how to use such a system where > user accounts are divided between different boxes. Would > NIS/NIS+ do it? Or perhaps, a distributed RADIUS system > like in the (complicated) Merit radiusd? You can use NIS systems for this and have a radius "server" on some corner of your network. I haven't had much luck with NIS on freebsd. It works about 90%. I may have overlooked something during the setup, but users can't change their passwords when runnning NIS! Andrew Webster - andrew@pubnix.net - http://www.pubnix.net PubNIX Montreal - Connected to the world - Branche au monde 514-990-5911 - P.O. Box 147, Cote St-Luc, Quebec, H4V 2Y3 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 07:28:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA04111 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [35.1.1.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA04087 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:27:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ohm.merit.edu (ohm.merit.edu [198.108.60.65]) by merit.edu (8.7.3/merit-2.0) with ESMTP id KAA20409; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:27:23 -0500 (EST) From: William Bulley Received: (web@localhost) by ohm.merit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.5) id KAA25273; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:36:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199602151536.KAA25273@ohm.merit.edu> Subject: Re: RADIUS To: map@iphil.net (Miguel A.L. Paraz) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:36:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, andrew@nash.pubnix.net In-Reply-To: <199602150444.MAA08392@marikit.iphil.net> from "Miguel A.L. Paraz" at Feb 15, 96 12:44:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk According to Miguel A.L. Paraz: > > I would appreciate advice on how to use such a system where > user accounts are divided between different boxes. Would > NIS/NIS+ do it? Or perhaps, a distributed RADIUS system > like in the (complicated) Merit radiusd? I would advise against NIS/NIS+/YP due to the security concerns therein. I would advise in favor of the distributed (proxy) approach used by Merit RADIUS (but some may say I'm biased...) :-) I, of course, would never say that, but you may, if you like. ;^) Regards, web... -- William Bulley, N8NXN Senior Systems Research Programmer Merit Network Inc. Domain: web@merit.edu 4251 Plymouth Road MaBell: (313) 764-9993 Ann Arbor, Michigan 48105-2785 Fax: (313) 747-3185 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 07:43:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05039 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05031 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:43:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA07556; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:43:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199602151543.IAA07556@rover.village.org> To: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:20:21 +0800 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:43:06 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk : Would you know how to make FreeBSD boot from flash? : It would be great for making terminal server/router boxes, with : no fear of hard disk crashes... No. I've never tried it. Warner From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 07:51:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05454 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05434 Thu, 15 Feb 1996 07:51:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA27113; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:49:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:49:04 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-ISP-L Subject: 128+ users on one system? (was Re: It feels so good!) In-Reply-To: <199602150904.RAA09887@marikit.iphil.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Miguel A.L. Paraz wrote: > > Brian Tao wrote: > > > 2:05AM up 8 days, 12:13, 132 users, load averages: 2.84, 3.29, 4.05 > > Wow! Care to share your system configuration, kernel and > system and tuning tricks, et cetera? There's nothing extraordinary about the hardware or the kernel. This is an example of what FreeBSD can do "out of the box", which is rather impressive (at least to me ;-) ). Hardware is a 133-MHz Pentium system, ASUS P/I-P55TP4XEG motherboard with 512K pipeline burst cache and 128M of RAM. Tip: if you're spending this kind of money on a system, go out and buy PCI versions of everything! Our supplier shipped the systems with a cheap Trident PCI VGA card, an NCR53c810 SCSI controller, and an SMC EtherPower 9332 10/100Mbps NIC. The EtherPower 8432 (I think that's the number, it's the 10Mbps-only version) also works well. Hardware installation was literally "plug and play". The PCI firmware sorts out all the nastiness normally associated with ISA peripherals. IRQ's are settable through the BIOS setup screen (the defaults worked for me) and the 2.1.0-R install kernel correctly identified all the pieces without prior fiddling with jumpers and DOS-based config utilities. :) Total cost of the system came to around C$6000, or around US$4500. The killer is the RAM, of course (C$4200 for four 60ns 32MB SIMM's), but the software was free. :) That works out to around US$45 per user, if you limit yourself to 100 online at a time. At 100+ interactive users, I've found that the bottleneck is at the 10Mbps Ethernet interface, not the CPU or memory. With that many users typing away at their terminals, de0 is sending and receiving 400 to 500 packets per second. Home directories are NFS mounted, which doesn't help matters. This results in lagged keyboard response and screen updates. Putting the machine on a 100Mbps port may eliminate this bottleneck. Swap usage hovers around 10 to 20% and the CPU doesn't appear to be working particularly hard with 100+ users. I'd guess that it can handle 150 interactive users comfortably, bringing the costs down to a mere US$30 per user. More tips... don't forget to configure and MAKEDEV all 256 pty's! I let my users run 'screen' here, and it was configured at compile time to use pty[PQRS] (the upper 128 pty's) so that [pt]ty[pqrs] were available for telnetd and rlogind. Also, be sure to have enough mbufs around to avoid locking up the network on that machine if they ever run out. This happened once with NMBCLUSTERS=2048, so now I have it set to 4096. I've seen the high-water mark hit 1952 clusters since then. I've included the dmesg output and kernel config file below. As I said, there isn't anything out of the ordinary with the configuration. All the options are documented or well-known. We have two such systems, with a third one arriving today (whee!). A CNAME shuffle record in our DNS is used to spread the user load around (trying an "nslookup shell.io.org"). Although I might be able to get away with having only a single login server, having more available gives me the flexibility to take one of them down for maintenance, knowing the remaining ones will be able to handle the load. All run stock 2.1.0-RELEASE with no additional patches. >>>>> FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Sat Dec 30 14:19:27 EST 1995 taob@flinch.io.org:/src/2.1.0-RELEASE/sys/compile/SHELL CPU: 133-MHz Pentium 735\90 or 815\100 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52b Stepping=11 Features=0x1bf real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 130035712 (126988K bytes) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: vt0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard vt0: ega, mono, 8 scr, mf2-kbd, [R3.20-b24] sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface Probing for devices on the PCI bus: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7 ncr0 rev 2 int a irq 10 on pci0:11 ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr0:1:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q09" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access sd0(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1042MB (2134305 512 byte sectors) sd0(ncr0:1:0): with 3835 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 139 sectors/track de0 rev 18 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 de0: DC21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:80:46:c8 de0: enabling 10baseT UTP port machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident CABAL maxusers 128 options INET options FFS options NFS options MSDOSFS options PROCFS options QUOTA options "COMPAT_43" options "SCSI_DELAY=5" options SCSIDEBUG options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY options UCONSOLE options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options PROBE_VERBOSE options "NMBCLUSTERS=4096" options "MAXMEM=131072" config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller ncr0 controller scbus0 device sd0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device de0 pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device pty 256 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 08:51:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA08393 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA08376 Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00260; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 11:53:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 11:53:16 -0500 Message-Id: <199602151653.LAA00260@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >One thing to keep in mind is that PCs also come in 4"x4"x4" cubes that >are expandible via PC-104 bus cards. Something like this could easily >stack like firewood to fill a small space in little time. Put a >ramdisk or flashram card inot this mix, run FreeBSD on it and you have >a nice little box. I believe that these boxes are 100% PC compatible, >but am not 100% positive. They are showing up in places like the >Circuit Cellar magazine. I don't hink you'll find a pentium on one of >these boxes, but I recall seeing 386 and 486 in them. > The real point here is that many "routers" are just re-packaged PCs...the "smaller is better" argument applies if you're willing to make the necessary trade-offs. Frankly, I'd rather have the benefits of a good sized hard drive and expandabiltiy than to save a cubic foot of space. Rememberr that your talking about 2 very different kinds of users....service providers and end users. From an end users perspective there is no way that any stand-alone router can give me more utility than my single-box freebsd server/router/gateway. Even if service providers use the "big net rack mount" type units in your facility, they can score points with their customers by giving them a rather impressive server/router solution. And with protocols like Frame relay there are 50-100 times the number of end user units than there are service provider units. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 08:55:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA08625 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:55:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA08608 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:54:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA04080; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:53:37 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602151653.KAA04080@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:53:37 -0600 (CST) Cc: map@iphil.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602151543.IAA07556@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Feb 15, 96 08:43:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > : Would you know how to make FreeBSD boot from flash? > : It would be great for making terminal server/router boxes, with > : no fear of hard disk crashes... > > No. I've never tried it. I think in the early days of FreeBSD, somebody down at UWM was trying to make it ROM-able. I'd check with Jim Lowe or Jim Jegers (current address unknown, previously ). There was a thread a really long time ago on -hackers about this, but I can't seem to find a mailing list archive anywhere. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 10:33:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13968 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:33:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.icon.net (ns1.icon.net [206.28.106.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13963 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 10:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bsd@localhost) by ns1.icon.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA20291 for isp@freebsd.org; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 01:02:39 -0600 From: BSD Unix Message-Id: <199602150702.BAA20291@ns1.icon.net> Subject: Re: RADIUS (fwd) To: isp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 01:02:39 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've a working version of Radius 1.16 with bin and complete source tree ftp to ftp.cdrom.com in the incomming directory (unless is being move to differnet directory). Wes ICON Forwarded message: > From owner-freebsd-isp@freefall.freebsd.org Thu Feb 15 00:44:15 1996 > From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" > Message-Id: <199602150444.MAA08392@marikit.iphil.net> > Subject: Re: RADIUS > To: andrew@nash.pubnix.net (Andrew Webster) > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:44:10 +0800 (GMT+0800) > Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Webster" at Feb 14, 96 03:07:33 pm > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org > Precedence: bulk > > Andrew Webster wrote: > > > > Is there anyone working on RADIUS support for FreeBSD so that it can be > > used as a smart terminal server? > > Yes, I am going to put some work into this. > > I already have the Livingston radiusd with the SLIP/CSLIP/PPP > patches installed, plus some other patches of my own. This > already works with a Portmaster that I borrowed, for reference > purposes. > > I also have the RADIUS client login for Linux, and will study how it > can be nicely injected into the BSD login - replacing > the getpwent() call with a RADIUS authentication request. This Linux > code does not support RADIUS accounting; I plan to put that in > by taking it backwards from the server code. > > Along this line, I previously asked for suggestions on good > multiport cards to use for FreeBSD. I also plan to stick a > sync serial board to make the system a one-box solution > for ISPs. > > I would appreciate advice on how to use such a system where > user accounts are divided between different boxes. Would > NIS/NIS+ do it? Or perhaps, a distributed RADIUS system > like in the (complicated) Merit radiusd? > > Any suggestions or code are appreciated! > -- > miguel a.l. paraz -- map@iphil.net -- http://www.iphil.net/user/map/ > iphil communications, makati city, philippines > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 12:26:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20048 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from okjunc.junction.net (michael@okjunc.junction.net [199.166.227.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20039 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:25:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from michael@localhost) by okjunc.junction.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id MAA02944; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:32:40 -0800 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 12:32:32 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon X-Sender: michael@okjunc.junction.net To: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" cc: Andrew Webster , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RADIUS In-Reply-To: <199602150444.MAA08392@marikit.iphil.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Miguel A.L. Paraz wrote: > Along this line, I previously asked for suggestions on good > multiport cards to use for FreeBSD. I also plan to stick a > sync serial board to make the system a one-box solution > for ISPs. Bad idea except for tiny startups or in-house corporate systems. > I would appreciate advice on how to use such a system where > user accounts are divided between different boxes. Would > NIS/NIS+ do it? Or perhaps, a distributed RADIUS system > like in the (complicated) Merit radiusd? Start by making the FreeBSD terminal server into a terminal server. That is to say, no accounts on it at all except root. Strip just about everything out of /etc/inetd.conf. Make it so that a successful RADIUS login either gives a PPP or SLIP session, or else it rlogins to another box which is the shell/mail server and has the user accounts. You can handle hundreds of shell accounts on one box. If they are only POP email you can probably handle thousands. But you would not want to put more than 32 lines on a single FreeBSD terminal server. NIS is a bad idea since it has too many security holes. Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 15:07:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA00810 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:07:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from itchy.mosquito.com (itchy.mosquito.com [206.205.132.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00803 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from boot@localhost) by itchy.mosquito.com (8.6.11/8.6.12) id SAA01684; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:08:06 -0500 From: Bruce Bauman Message-Id: <199602152308.SAA01684@itchy.mosquito.com> Subject: mail question... To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:08:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: boot@itchy.mosquito.com (Bruce Bauman) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk We have a customer who has a Novell network, and their users want to receive Internet mail from us. This customer won't have a static IP address. They just want to dial in and fetch mail from us, similar to the way our normal dialup customers do (e.g. using POP). The problem is, they want a single machine on their end to basically dial us up and snarf the mail for all of their users, and feed back the outgoing mail to us for eventual delivery on the Internet. We want a simple solution. Any ideas? -- Bruce From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 16:41:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA07186 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:41:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from serv2.fwi.com (root@serv2.fwi.com [204.235.86.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA07166 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from serv2.fwi.com (stork@serv2.fwi.com [204.235.86.2]) by serv2.fwi.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA09021; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:36:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 19:36:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Bryan \"BOFH\" Liles" X-Sender: stork@serv2.fwi.com To: Bruce Bauman cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, Bruce Bauman Subject: Re: mail question... In-Reply-To: <199602152308.SAA01684@itchy.mosquito.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You could find them an SMTP/POP server for Novell Networks. I'm sure that there is one. Or, you try UUCP (yuck yuck) -- Bryan Liles Sysadmin, Fort Wayne Internet From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 17:01:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA08588 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA08573 Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:01:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA24146; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:31:16 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602160101.LAA24146@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:31:16 +1030 (CST) Cc: imp@village.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, sef@kithrup.com, dennis@etinc.com, louie@TransSys.COM, hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1508.824369497@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 15, 96 08:31:37 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp stands accused of saying: > > > One thing to keep in mind is that PCs also come in 4"x4"x4" cubes that > > are expandible via PC-104 bus cards. Something like this could easily > > stack like firewood to fill a small space in little time. Put a > > ramdisk or flashram card inot this mix, run FreeBSD on it and you have > > a nice little box. I believe that these boxes are 100% PC compatible, > > but am not 100% positive. They are showing up in places like the > > Circuit Cellar magazine. I don't hink you'll find a pentium on one of > > these boxes, but I recall seeing 386 and 486 in them. > > These are the absolute craze in automation and industrial environments. > You can get P5s, I've even seen a P6 prerelease. A couple of problems with these units : Co$t (Especially for anything more than a 486DLC Heat dissipation PC-104 is ISA on a different connector Having said that, if space is critical, they're a great way to go. > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "I seek PEZ!" - The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 17:07:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA09242 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:07:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from okjunc.junction.net (michael@okjunc.junction.net [199.166.227.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09234 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from michael@localhost) by okjunc.junction.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id RAA07534; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:14:03 -0800 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 17:14:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon X-Sender: michael@okjunc.junction.net To: Bruce Bauman cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, Bruce Bauman Subject: Re: mail question... In-Reply-To: <199602152308.SAA01684@itchy.mosquito.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Bruce Bauman wrote: > We have a customer who has a Novell network, and their users want to receive > Internet mail from us. This customer won't have a static IP address. They just > want to dial in and fetch mail from us, similar to the way our normal dialup > customers do (e.g. using POP). > > The problem is, they want a single machine on their end to basically dial us > up and snarf the mail for all of their users, and feed back the outgoing > mail to us for eventual delivery on the Internet. We want a simple solution. Make a sendmail database that forwards mail for all of their users to one account. But warn them that they will need to sort the mail on their end and if it is done manually, then their employees email will not be confidential any more, just like a fax machine. Better if you find out what corporate email system they are using and talk to local VAR's about setting up some sort of gateway, maybe using UUCP. Or if they would put a FreeBSD box on their network (an old 386 perhaps) you could configure it to run a dialin script that makes a PPP connection and then runs POPMAIL for each usera nd deposits each user's email in a separate mailbox on the FreeBSD machine. Then they can just run Eudora or Pegasus on each desktop and the FreeBSD box will be acting as their mail server. Of course, this requires all machines to be running a TCP/IP stack. This is unlikely if they have Novell 3.x Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 18:15:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA14533 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:15:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from chaos.vis-av.com (vis-av.com [206.119.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14523 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from derrell@localhost) by chaos.vis-av.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA10757; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:19:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:19:36 -0500 From: Derrell Lipman Message-Id: <199602160219.VAA10757@chaos.vis-av.com> To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mail question... In-Reply-To: <199602152308.SAA01684@itchy.mosquito.com> References: <199602152308.SAA01684@itchy.mosquito.com> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Bauman writes: > > We have a customer who has a Novell network, and their users want to > receive Internet mail from us. This customer won't have a static IP > address. They just want to dial in and fetch mail from us, similar to > the way our normal dialup customers do (e.g. using POP). > > The problem is, they want a single machine on their end to basically > dial us up and snarf the mail for all of their users, and feed back > the outgoing mail to us for eventual delivery on the Internet. We want > a simple solution. > > Any ideas? > > -- Bruce This is a perfect (and traditional) use for UUCP. On their end, if they don't have a Unix machine, they can run UUPC (the dos version of UUCP). -- Derrell -- Derrell Lipman (derrell@vis-av.com) Grumman Tiger, N28860 - Civil Air Patrol: MAWG Group 1 HQ, Operations / Cadet Programs Cadet Programs Officer, Mountain Mission Pilot, Air Ops Director, Ground Team Leader, Ground Ops Director, Mission Coordinator Trainee, Communications Unit Director, Eagle 690 (soon to be Freedom 103) From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Feb 15 18:53:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA16894 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA16885 Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA19944; Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:53:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199602160253.VAA19944@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:45:28 EST." <199602141845.NAA06729@etinc.com> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:53:16 -0500 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > >> I am trying at the moment to get $3000 together, so I can get me Frame Relay > >> (128K as it looks like at the moment). That is $1009 for PB, $500 for the > >> provider and rest for hardware I need. > >> > >> Ulf. > > > >You guys should also look at the relative cost of an external, > >standalone Ascend Pipeline 50 LS56 router, which has an ethernet > >interface and a 56K DDS leased line interface (with built-in CSU/DSU). > > > >I'm using one of these things at home, and it works really, really > >great. Its physically the same size as the Pipeline 50 ISDN router. > > > >For T1 upgrade paths, you might also look at the newly announced > >Pipeline 130 router, which I think has ISDN, 56K and T1 interfaces. I > >don't know what it costs. > > > > eeee-gads...why? Can it by my firewall? can I add an ethernet for $60.? Can > I add a T1 > for $200? Can it serve my Web pages? can it be my E-mail server? On the other hand, your Internet gateway doesn't have to fsck when the power fails and comes back again. It doesn't serve web pages, or run SMTP.. it does actually route packets pretty well. To each his own.. My PL50 works really well, and takes up less space than the ZyXEL modem I used to use. It doesn't have moving parts, and doesn't need an external CSU/DSU. > > A good rule of thumb: If you know un*x, use un*x....if you don't, use > something else. > Yes, it's true that if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. That's no excuse not to get the 'right' tool for the job. louie From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Feb 16 07:17:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA09330 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 07:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA09322 Fri, 16 Feb 1996 07:17:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02788; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:19:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:19:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199602161519.KAA02788@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Louis A. Mamakos" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Louis writes..... >On the other hand, your Internet gateway doesn't have to fsck when the >power fails and comes back again. It doesn't serve web pages, or run >SMTP.. it does actually route packets pretty well. You're missing the point...you're comparing a router to a host/router, and I'm comparing a card to a router box.. No....my card doesnt have any moving parts either. There are substantial performance and functional advantages to having a common code solution between router and server. What's really funny is that you contradict yourself in your next "argument" > >To each his own.. My PL50 works really well, and takes up less space >than the ZyXEL modem I used to use. It doesn't have moving parts, and >doesn't need an external CSU/DSU. My argument is to put a router INTO my server...your argument of putting the CSU into the router is similar, except that you almost always dont have a choice of which CSU/DSU to use with an integrated solution. If you dont care...then fine...but they're almost never as good or reliable as external ones. > >> >> A good rule of thumb: If you know un*x, use un*x....if you don't, use >> something else. >> > >Yes, it's true that if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything >looks like a nail. That's no excuse not to get the 'right' tool for >the job. I dont think that the "hammer" argument works here...theres no evidence that your solution is better or more appropriate than a unix solution, and much evidence that it is less flexible and lower performance (due to an added hop, at the minimum). From the talk about problems with the PLs, I'd say its a pretty risky choice. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Feb 16 07:33:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA10391 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 07:33:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from overlord.dmv.com (root@overlord.dmv.com [206.30.64.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA10381 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 07:33:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from overlord.dmv.com by overlord.dmv.com via SMTP (950215.SGI.8.6.10/940406.SGI.AUTO) id KAA16699; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:33:15 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:33:15 -0500 (EDT) From: Patrick Ferguson To: Michael Dillon cc: Bruce Bauman , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Bruce Bauman Subject: Re: mail question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Or you could just edit your sendmail config file and place the following line in S0. Basically it's for virtual domains, and it routes all mail addressed user@virtual.dom --> real@virtual.dom (real is the account that is an actual account on your machine. Otherwise, you will loose each name you alias to as a login account.) R$-<@virtual.dom> $#local$:real *** Put this BEFORE R@ $#local$:$n *** This will bypass your local mailer from checking whether the rightside of the lefthand equation is an actual valid account, ie is user@virtual.dom a local account????? This should be the very first line in the S0 section. BTW, replace the @virtual.dom with their domainname and the real with the account that they are gonna pop the mail from remotely. Remember also to put the domainname in the w macro: Cwlocalhost virtual.dom Patrick On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Bruce Bauman wrote: > > > We have a customer who has a Novell network, and their users want to receive > > Internet mail from us. This customer won't have a static IP address. They just > > want to dial in and fetch mail from us, similar to the way our normal dialup > > customers do (e.g. using POP). > > > > The problem is, they want a single machine on their end to basically dial us > > up and snarf the mail for all of their users, and feed back the outgoing > > mail to us for eventual delivery on the Internet. We want a simple solution. > > Make a sendmail database that forwards mail for all of their users to one > account. But warn them that they will need to sort the mail on their end > and if it is done manually, then their employees email will not be > confidential any more, just like a fax machine. > > Better if you find out what corporate email system they are using and > talk to local VAR's about setting up some sort of gateway, maybe using UUCP. > > Or if they would put a FreeBSD box on their network (an old 386 perhaps) > you could configure it to run a dialin script that makes a PPP connection > and then runs POPMAIL for each usera nd deposits each user's email in a > separate mailbox on the FreeBSD machine. Then they can just run Eudora or > Pegasus on each desktop and the FreeBSD box will be acting as their mail > server. Of course, this requires all machines to be running a TCP/IP > stack. This is unlikely if they have Novell 3.x > > > Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 > Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 > http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com > From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Feb 16 08:17:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12971 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08:17:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from tempest.garply.com (root@tempest.garply.com [165.113.188.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA12963 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08:17:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.garply.com (matt@localhost.garply.com [127.0.0.1]) by tempest.garply.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA01871 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:17:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199602161617.KAA01871@tempest.garply.com> X-Authentication-Warning: tempest.garply.com: Host localhost.garply.com didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Matt Midboe" Subject: Beginnings of web based administration tools Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:17:15 -0600 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have the very modest beginnings of a few tools for web based administration up for ftp now. Their is no polished install procedure and you shouldn't download them unless you are prepared to configure your web server a little bit. You can ftp them from ftp://foo.garply.com/users/matt/web-admin.tar.gz. I will have the version with full DNS and user modification stuff out on Februrary 22nd, along with a configuration script so you may want to wait until then. Matt matt@garply.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Feb 16 13:55:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA10950 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 13:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10940 Fri, 16 Feb 1996 13:55:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA21088; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:55:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199602162155.QAA21088@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:19:14 EST." <199602161519.KAA02788@etinc.com> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:55:19 -0500 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Louis writes..... > > >On the other hand, your Internet gateway doesn't have to fsck when the > >power fails and comes back again. It doesn't serve web pages, or run > >SMTP.. it does actually route packets pretty well. > > You're missing the point...you're comparing a router to a host/router, and > I'm comparing a card to a router box.. No....my card doesnt have > any moving parts either. There are substantial performance and functional > advantages to having a common code solution between router and server. > What's really funny is that you contradict yourself in your next "argument" No, you're missing the point. In my original message I pointed out that the cost of a dedicated Ascend Pipeline 50 LS56 is very close if not cheaper than the cost of the synchronous interface for a PC platform and the associated external CSU/DSU. The moving parts refer to the disk drive in the PC that loads the OS that makes the interface do anything useful. If you only have one machine, then the failure of the disk isn't any big deal. If, on the other hand, you have a local ethernet with a handful of machines on it, why would you tie their functioning to a realtively delicate platform with moving parts? > >To each his own.. My PL50 works really well, and takes up less space > >than the ZyXEL modem I used to use. It doesn't have moving parts, and > >doesn't need an external CSU/DSU. > > My argument is to put a router INTO my server...your argument of putting the > CSU into the router is similar, except that you almost always dont have a choice > of which CSU/DSU to use with an integrated solution. If you dont care...then > fine...but they're almost never as good or reliable as external ones. You only need a working CSU/DSU that conforms to the relevant Bellcore specs. I don't know why you'd believe the external CSU/DSUs are more reliable since they all use the same VLSI these days. > > > >> > >> A good rule of thumb: If you know un*x, use un*x....if you don't, use > >> something else. > >> > > > >Yes, it's true that if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything > >looks like a nail. That's no excuse not to get the 'right' tool for > >the job. > > I dont think that the "hammer" argument works here...theres no evidence > that your solution is better or more appropriate than a unix solution, and > much evidence that it is less flexible and lower performance (due to an > added hop, at the minimum). From the talk about problems with the PLs, > I'd say its a pretty risky choice. It absolutely is more reliable; the performance of your entire network doesn't depend on the functioning of a UNIX box with disk drives, etc. When there's a power failure, I don't want the connectivity to my network to fail until someone comes along and types 'fsck -y' on the console to reboot the gateway. Louis A. Mamakos From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Feb 16 14:48:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13286 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:48:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13281 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA03570 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:50:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:50:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199602162250.RAA03570@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: isp@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Louis continues... >No, you're missing the point. > >In my original message I pointed out that the cost of a dedicated >Ascend Pipeline 50 LS56 is very close if not cheaper than the cost of >the synchronous interface for a PC platform and the associated >external CSU/DSU. > >The moving parts refer to the disk drive in the PC that loads the OS >that makes the interface do anything useful. If you only have one >machine, then the failure of the disk isn't any big deal. If, on the >other hand, you have a local ethernet with a handful of machines on >it, why would you tie their functioning to a realtively delicate >platform with moving parts? But your router DOESNT DO A DAMN THING (sorry) without a server, so you still need a host with moving parts....so you're saving nothing. >You only need a working CSU/DSU that conforms to the relevant Bellcore >specs. I don't know why you'd believe the external CSU/DSUs are more >reliable since they all use the same VLSI these days. Im glad that its that easy. All products are created equal, so just buy the cheapest thing available. Simple world you have. Standalone enclosures are more reliable, its easier to resolve problems, almost always have more features, and dont have the heat and noise issues that "integrated" ones. Integrated ones have space limitations so they often leave out protection circuitry in external ones. >It absolutely is more reliable; the performance of your entire network >doesn't depend on the functioning of a UNIX box with disk drives, etc. >When there's a power failure, I don't want the connectivity to my >network to fail until someone comes along and types 'fsck -y' on the >console to reboot the gateway. Too bad for your customers. My UNIX gateway's been up since August without a crash. But I guess a slower, more costly solution would make me feel better :-) db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Feb 17 11:35:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24036 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 17 Feb 1996 11:35:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24031 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 1996 11:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA06263; Sat, 17 Feb 1996 14:37:54 -0500 Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 14:37:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199602171937.OAA06263@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Stephen Fisher From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Frame Relay and FreeBSD Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > >> > >> A good rule of thumb: If you know un*x, use un*x....if you don't, use >> > >> something else. > >[clip] > >> > added hop, at the minimum). From the talk about problems with the PLs, >> > I'd say its a pretty risky choice. > >Yeah. That 1.6ms hop to my router sure does hender things.. :) Which is about the same performance difference as using a pentium instead of a '386 for your server...which do you use? :-) Plus it keeps up to 3Mbs of traffic off your ethernet........ > >Why bother talking about this so much? It's the same thing I see / have >seen in the Linux-ISP list, and it gets us no where since neither side >will bother switching. Lots of people are switching. People stayed with DOS for awhile...but there arent many left now... More and more ISPs are realizing what a selling point it is to have a single box, virtually complete internet access solution for getting private line business. And there are a lot of people/companies that are looking for a good reason to get a unix system in house. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX