From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jul 28 03:24:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA13922 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 03:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA13917 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 03:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au ([203.2.144.5]) by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA10976 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 28 Jul 1996 01:58:08 -0700 Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09483; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:54:09 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:54:08 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Peter Hawkins Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: routing problem In-Reply-To: <199607271657.CAA13970@palin.cc.monash.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Peter Hawkins wrote: > > Clearly I need to forward from 85.9 <-> 222.10 and I thought routed > would just do this for me. Clearly routed is setting up the gateway > to 222.11 as I can ping it however my customer can't ping 85.9. > Yes I know it's probably a dumb question, but if you can help me Peter, routed and gated are route managers. They do not forward packets, they only manage the routing tables in the kernel. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jul 28 08:33:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA26856 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 08:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyvox.net.au (gateway.cyvox.net.au [203.24.200.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA26851 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 08:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by cyvox.net.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA06118; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 01:04:47 +0930 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 01:04:46 +0930 (CST) From: mail To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: mounting dos partition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Excuse the basic question. I have a secondary IDE drive that I would like to mount. It is a dos drive at the moment and I would like to transfer all my files via NFS before I wipe it. How do I go about this? it is recognised in dmesg as - wd1: 12222MB thanks, Martin. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jul 28 08:51:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA27621 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 08:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irbs.irbs.com (irbs.com [199.182.75.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA27616 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 08:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.irbs.com (8.7.5/8.6.6) id LAA05324 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 11:50:31 -0400 (EDT) From: John Capo Message-Id: <199607281550.LAA05324@irbs.irbs.com> Subject: Re: routing problem To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 11:50:31 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from Michael Dillon at "Jul 27, 96 10:21:44 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon writes: > On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Peter Hawkins wrote: > > > Clearly I need to forward from 85.9 <-> 222.10 and I thought routed > > would just do this for me. Clearly routed is setting up the gateway > > to 222.11 as I can ping it however my customer can't ping 85.9. > > Yes I know it's probably a dumb question, but if you can help me > > I would appreciate it. > > Routed doesn't have anything to do with packet forwarding. Delete it. > Then make sure you have packet forwarding enabled in the kernel withthe > GATEWAY option and make sure your routes are set up properly with > route add, and netstat -nr. Or turn forwarding on in /etc/sysconfig: # If you want this host to be a gateway, set to YES. gateway=YES John Capo jc@irbs.com IRBS Engineering FreeBSD Servers and Workstations (954) 792-9551 Unix/Internet Consulting - ISP Solutions From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jul 28 08:52:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA27742 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 08:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.win.net (ns2.win.net [204.215.209.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA27735 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 08:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from launchpad.win.net (launchpad@localhost) by ns2.win.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id LAA22755 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 11:50:51 -0400 Received: by win.net!launchpad; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 11:48:28 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v4.0a Message-ID: Reply-To: fbsd-isp@launchpad.win.net (Joe Mays - freebsd-isp) To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 11:48:27 -0400 Subject: Apache Virtual Website options From: fbsd-isp@launchpad.win.net (Joe Mays - freebsd-isp) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Up until now we have been using the cern server as our primary web server. We also have a few hundred virtual websites that have been using the cern httpd_multi quite happily. I just switched the main server over to apache httpd with no problem, and we are looking at switching all the virtual websites over to apache also. Here's the question -- apache offers two options for running virtual web sites. You can use use the Bind option, which binds the server to the ip number and runs a separate server daemon for each virtual website (this more or less equates to what we are doing now with cern), or you can use the Listen option to run allow the primary daemon to also listen and respond to all the virtual websites. Does anyone have any input on which method offers more performance when you get into the 200-300 virtual website realm? Joe Mays From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jul 28 09:18:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA28856 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.transport.com (root@transport.com [204.119.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA28851 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from connect.transport.com (pdx2-1.transport.com [206.251.84.10]) by mail.transport.com (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA05788 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:18:16 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:18:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199607281618.JAA05788@mail.transport.com> X-Sender: connect@mail.transport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org From: Pete Chiboucas Subject: gated Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I could not find gated in the distribution we have. does anyone know where it can be had for FreeBSD 2.1? thanks Pete ****************************************************** Strength is Gentle, Wisdom Quiet, Passion Overwhelming Net Connection/Pete Chiboucas www.webnw.com 8888 SW Cashmur Ln pete@webnw.com Portland Or 97225 503 203 1671 From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jul 28 10:04:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA00817 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 10:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from synwork.com (root@synwork.com [199.3.234.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA00812 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 10:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from synwork.com (flaq@ns1.synwork.com [204.120.255.17]) by synwork.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA13948; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:04:10 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:04:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike To: Pete Chiboucas cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: gated In-Reply-To: <199607281618.JAA05788@mail.transport.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Pete Chiboucas wrote: > I could not find gated in the distribution we have. does anyone know where > it can be had for FreeBSD 2.1? > > thanks > > Pete > ****************************************************** > Strength is Gentle, Wisdom Quiet, Passion Overwhelming > > Net Connection/Pete Chiboucas www.webnw.com > 8888 SW Cashmur Ln pete@webnw.com > Portland Or 97225 503 203 1671 > > Look in the ports collection. It is there... Mike ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Syn-Work Media, Inc. | WWW Development & Hosting | Life Safety http://www.synwork.com | Systems Integration | CCTV mike@synwork.com | Voice/Data/Fiber | Access Control Flaq on IRC | Dukane Distributor | BICSI/RCDD ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jul 28 13:06:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07699 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 13:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07694 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 13:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cedb (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.6.10/DPC-1.0) with SMTP id MAA09282; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:55:38 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:55:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Busarow X-Sender: dan@cedb To: Joe Mays - freebsd-isp cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apache Virtual Website options In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Joe Mays - freebsd-isp wrote: > Does anyone have any input on which method offers more performance > when you get into the 200-300 virtual website realm? I don't have any hard performance numbers for you but consider that using the bind option with 200 virtual hosts will require (with default settings) 1000 httpds running at all times. Using the VirtualHost option, you'll only have as many as you really need running at any one time. Now that may turn out to be just as many but at least they are guaranteed to be doing real work, not just eating memory. Dan -- Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 DPC Systems dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Jul 28 14:50:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12513 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nanguo.chalmers.com.au (chalmers.com.au [203.1.96.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12508 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 1996 14:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nanguo.chalmers.com.au (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0ukdpa-00027bC; Mon, 29 Jul 96 07:56 EST Message-Id: From: robert@chalmers.com.au (Robert Chalmers) Subject: Trying to understand virtual hosting To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 07:56:58 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoping someone can assist me to understand the steps involved in virtual hosting. Have I got the sequence right.? Set up a Zone file for the domain in the DNS records of the Primary DNS. Set up a virtual host.do.main using Listen option in Apache. (Or set up an alias IP within your own IP space,) (Does NSCA do Listen as well, or just bind+IP alias?) register the domain, and point the Nameserver responsible for the host.do.main at your real Nameserver on which the domain has a zone record. for instance, register foo.bar.com as a domain, with a name server of bart.simpson.com, (your actual server). Sometimes I see people referring to running virtual domains/hosts without using bind? I don't understand how that is done. If there is a domain called foo.bar.com, but it is a virtual domain kept on the real host/domain bart.simpson.com, and I'm here in OZ, and I try and locate http://foo.bar.com, it has to be able to find it in the DNService doesn't it ! There has to be a record somewhere pointing foo.bar.com --> bart.simpson.com Thanks for any assistance on this enquiry, Robert -- The China House Sheng Huo Jiu Shi Dou Zheng robert@chalmers.com.au for Whirled Peas http://chalmers.com.au Location: Web Works Whitsunday. 21'7" S, 149'14" E. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 00:50:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA10863 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 00:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uk1.vbc.net (jdd@uk1.vbc.net [204.137.194.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA10857 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 00:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by uk1.vbc.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA23199; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:50:03 +0100 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:50:02 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Dixon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: HSSI ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone out there using FreeBSD to handle WAN traffic at DS3 data rates? Or to put the question differently: is anyone actually using a PCI HSSI card with FreeBSD? -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 http://www.uk.vbc.net VBCnet West +1 408 971 2682 fax +1 408 971 2684 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 04:47:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA21650 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 04:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA21645 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 04:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id GAA20909; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 06:46:44 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199607291146.GAA20909@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Trying to understand virtual hosting To: robert@chalmers.com.au (Robert Chalmers) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 06:46:44 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Robert Chalmers" at Jul 29, 96 07:56:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Set up a Zone file for the domain in the DNS records of > the Primary DNS. > > Set up a virtual host.do.main using Listen option in Apache. > (Or set up an alias IP within your own IP space,) > (Does NSCA do Listen as well, or just bind+IP alias?) > > register the domain, and point the Nameserver responsible for > the host.do.main at your real Nameserver on which the domain > has a zone record. > > for instance, register foo.bar.com as a domain, with a > name server of bart.simpson.com, (your actual server). > > Sometimes I see people referring to running virtual domains/hosts > without using bind? I don't understand how that is done. If there > is a domain called foo.bar.com, but it is a virtual domain kept on > the real host/domain bart.simpson.com, and I'm here in OZ, and I > try and locate http://foo.bar.com, it has to be able to find it > in the DNService doesn't it ! There has to be a record somewhere > pointing foo.bar.com --> bart.simpson.com What confuses most people is that the issue of DNS and the issue of virtual domains/hosts are two almost entirely separate problems. You create a virtual Web or FTP host by grabbing an IP number in your range, and telling Apache or your fav Web server that it is "www.xyz.abc". That is really ALL that there is to a virtual host. Now you have to make it work from a DNS point of view. It does not matter how it is done. You may have to create a new zone and register a domain name with InterNIC. The customer may already have a domain, in which case you simply twiddle the existing zone. You might even be hosting a site for a customer with a domain server that is not on-site, in which case you don't do any DNS work at all locally - the remote DNS host does. Because of that, all the instructions I've seen for doing "virtual hosts" are mostly wrong, because they are trying to explain it to people and fail to mention the other possible cases. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 07:03:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA27309 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 07:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isot.isot.com (root@internet-of-texas.Houston.mci.net [204.70.37.26]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA27302 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 07:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gism.isot.com (gism.isot.com [206.24.68.34]) by isot.isot.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA12788 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 04:43:18 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 04:43:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199607290943.EAA12788@isot.isot.com> X-Sender: gism@ns.isot.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Global Internet Shopping Mall Subject: host & domain Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In case of name1.name2.com, is it safe to assume, that the host is name1 and the domain is name2.com in all cases at /etc/sysconfig??? From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 07:40:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29893 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 07:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA29887 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 07:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA21096; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:39:26 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199607291439.JAA21096@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: HSSI ? To: jdd@vbc.net (Jim Dixon) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:39:25 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, nathan@netrail.net In-Reply-To: from "Jim Dixon" at Jul 29, 96 08:50:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is anyone out there using FreeBSD to handle WAN traffic at DS3 data > rates? Or to put the question differently: is anyone actually using a > PCI HSSI card with FreeBSD? Nathan Stratton of NetRail was looking at various things along these lines several months ago. As this might be of general interest, perhaps he could drop a line and let us know what happened :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 09:06:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA07599 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.ejka.se ([194.251.83.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07582 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gimli.ejka.se (gimli.ejka.se [194.251.83.4]) by gandalf.ejka.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA06776 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:06:44 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960729161423.009c7a5c@mail.ejka.se> X-Sender: jerker@mail.ejka.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:14:23 +0200 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org From: Jerker Klang Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What Tabestreemer is the best choice for my FreeBSD boxes? /Jerker From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 10:10:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA10246 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbd.gfoster.com (dyna237.intr.net [204.157.123.237]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA10237 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by tbd.gfoster.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA16802; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:07:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199607291707.NAA16802@tbd.gfoster.com> To: Jerker@ejka.se CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <2.2.32.19960729161423.009c7a5c@mail.ejka.se> (message from Jerker Klang on Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:14:23 +0200) Subject: Re: Tape streamer Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am very happy with my rebuilt Exabyte 8200. Not the latest, spiffiest, or quickest but 2.3Gb and SCSI for only ~$300 from CDS @ 805-499-6355. I have had very good luck with Exabytes over the years and the tapes are cheap and seem to last a while (I recently recovered some data from a tape that had been sitting in a box for six years with no data loss). I have put several HP-35480 DATs in client machines with excellent results, these are about $650 new in box. I like this drive a lot but it is a little pricy for some uses. Glen Foster >Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:14:23 +0200 >From: Jerker Klang >X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >What Tabestreemer is the best choice for my FreeBSD boxes? From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 11:35:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA14504 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 11:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.ejka.se ([194.251.83.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14498 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gimli.ejka.se (gimli.ejka.se [194.251.83.4]) by gandalf.ejka.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA07018 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 19:59:09 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960729180646.00746ed0@mail.ejka.se> X-Sender: jerker@mail.ejka.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 20:06:46 +0200 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Jerker Klang Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there annything like linux ftape in freeBSD or can the linux emulator use ftape? I ned this or simular function thats handle a Iomega Dito 3200 Travan tape. /Jerker From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 11:37:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA14604 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 11:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isot.isot.com (root@internet-of-texas.Houston.mci.net [204.70.37.26]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14593 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 11:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gism.isot.com (gism.isot.com [206.24.68.34]) by isot.isot.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA22314 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:16:29 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:16:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199607291416.JAA22314@isot.isot.com> X-Sender: gism@ns.isot.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Global Internet Shopping Mall Subject: BSDi --> FreeBSD Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please help! I'm trying to replace my current BSDi 2.0.1 server with FreeBSD 2.1. I've setup a temporary FreeBSD box as connected to through the ethernet. When I it takes long time to display each line, at the end it shows: Destination Gateway Flags ... default multibyte.com UGSc 206.24.68 link#2 UC isot.isot.com 0:a0:24:12:c2:c UHLW multibyte.com 0:a0:24:12:c2:3c UHLW 206.24.68.115 link#2 UHLW BASE-ADDRESS.MCA link#2 UCS 1) Where did the ...115 came from? And where is my ...15? I've looked at the /etc/sysconfig which is specified for ...15 2) What is BASE-ADDRESS.MCA line? Where did it come from? 3) Why link#2??? Shouldn't it be link#1? I can ping but long delay at first before it begin pinging. And I cannot ping outside , such as bsdi.com, yahoo.com, etc... I checked the DNS configurations, looks ok and named is running. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 12:33:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17333 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 12:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heathers.stdio.com (heathers.stdio.com [204.152.114.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA17321 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 12:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from risner@localhost) by heathers.stdio.com (8.6.12/8.6.13) id PAA29130 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:32:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:32:22 -0400 From: James Risner Message-Id: <199607291932.PAA29130@heathers.stdio.com> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Wanted best serial board 8-16 port Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have tried Specialx 16 XIO card. I have tried digiboard pc8e card. I have tried boca bb1004 card. Who has a suggestion for a solid multiple serial card and who has them for sale or trade for one of the above? I get lots of locked ports with the above cards. where processes like getty are frozen, unkillable and listed under /bin/ps as "E" or exiting... Risner From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 13:02:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA18925 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18917 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA27188; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:01:42 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199607292001.NAA27188@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: BSDi --> FreeBSD To: gism@isot.isot.com (Global Internet Shopping Mall) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199607291416.JAA22314@isot.isot.com> from Global Internet Shopping Mall at "Jul 29, 96 09:16:29 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Please help! I'm trying to replace my current BSDi 2.0.1 server 206.24.68.1> with FreeBSD 2.1. Please use FreeBSD 2.1.5, 2.1 is outdated and has been supersedded by this new release. > > I've setup a temporary FreeBSD box as connected > to through the ethernet. multibyte.com is not a registered domain in the root nameservers. 68.24.206.in-addr.arpa is not server by, or deligated from the server for 24.206.in-addr.arpa. > > When I it takes long time to display each line, at the end it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is fixed in the netstat sources, upgrading to 2.1.5 will fix this slow response of netstat -r. I am not sure if you can run the 2.1.5 netstat binary on 2.1. > shows: > > Destination Gateway Flags ... > default multibyte.com UGSc > 206.24.68 link#2 UC > isot.isot.com 0:a0:24:12:c2:c UHLW > multibyte.com 0:a0:24:12:c2:3c UHLW > 206.24.68.115 link#2 UHLW > BASE-ADDRESS.MCA link#2 UCS > > 1) a)Where did the ...115 came from? Not sure, what does ``ifconfig -a'' and ``netstat -i'' say? > b)And where is my ...15? I've looked at the /etc/sysconfig > which is specified for ...15 multibyte.com == ...15, it is the default route. It looks as if you have declared yourself to be the default route, which is probably wrong. > 2) What is BASE-ADDRESS.MCA line? Where did it come from? This is the multicast route for 224.0.0.0, it came from /etc/sysconfig. > 3) Why link#2??? Shouldn't it be link#1? Should become apperant when you do the ifconfig -a and netstat -i in 1) above. > I can ping but long delay at first before it begin pinging. And > I cannot ping outside , such as bsdi.com, yahoo.com, etc... I > checked the DNS configurations, looks ok and named is running. Your default route is probably wrong. Also your DNS is not visible to the rest of the net, so your going to have problems there very soon as well. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 13:21:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19873 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19847 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0ukynH-0008tUC; Mon, 29 Jul 96 13:19 PDT Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: Tape streamer To: gfoster@gfoster.com (Glen Foster) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Jerker@ejka.se, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199607291707.NAA16802@tbd.gfoster.com> from "Glen Foster" at Jul 29, 96 01:07:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have put several HP-35480 DATs in client machines with excellent > results, these are about $650 new in box. I like this drive a lot but > it is a little pricy for some uses. Yes, I've been quite happy with mine for 2-3 years now, but... Recently it developed read/write errors. I called HP and opted for the Express Repair option: for $35 addditional, they ship me a refurbished drive, and I ship back my old one, thus getting fast turnaround. It's now been almost a month, and I've still not gotten it. They say they don't have any because they're in such demand, but they started shipping out backlogs last Thursday and Friday. If mine doesn't arrive today, I'm going to have to cancel the damn repair and go buy another drive, and it won't be an HP. I've waited far too long as it is. -- Alan Batie ______ We're Starfleet officers: batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Weird is part of the job. +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Captain Janeway DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 15:19:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA26778 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monet.telebyte.nl (jvissers@monet.telebyte.nl [193.67.242.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26771 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jvissers@localhost) by monet.telebyte.nl (8.7.3/8.6.11) id AAA21842 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:19:16 +0200 From: Jos Vissers Message-Id: <199607292219.AAA21842@monet.telebyte.nl> Subject: ethernet address disappearing in arp To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:19:16 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We've got 2 FreeBSD boxes (2.1.0 and 2.1.5) connected to the same gateway (a cisco). After a while both of them lost the ethernet address for this gateway. arp -a showed incomplete for the gateway. When I add a permanent arp entry for the cisco it seems to work (for now). This all occurred after I added an ip alias (from another c-class network) to both machines. I've configured one of the two machines as a gateway between the 2 c-class networks, but they use the same physical link. Jos -- Jos Vissers, System administrator Telebyte From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 15:27:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27117 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monet.telebyte.nl (jvissers@monet.telebyte.nl [193.67.242.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27112 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jvissers@localhost) by monet.telebyte.nl (8.7.3/8.6.11) id AAA22020 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:26:58 +0200 From: Jos Vissers Message-Id: <199607292226.AAA22020@monet.telebyte.nl> Subject: nn-6.5.0 package To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:26:58 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've installed nn-6.5.0 several times on different machines, but for some reason it won't post when inn isn't also installed on the same machine. There doesn't seem to be a package dependancy for nn-6.5.0. Can I install something else besides inn to make nn post over nntp? Or perhaps change nn itself so it will do it by itself. Jos -- Jos Vissers, System administrator Telebyte From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 15:35:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27525 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from synwork.com (root@synwork.com [199.3.234.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27519 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from synwork.com (flaq@ns1.synwork.com [204.120.255.17]) by synwork.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA20261; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:35:06 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:35:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike To: Jos Vissers cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ethernet address disappearing in arp In-Reply-To: <199607292219.AAA21842@monet.telebyte.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Jos Vissers wrote: > We've got 2 FreeBSD boxes (2.1.0 and 2.1.5) connected to the > same gateway (a cisco). After a while both of them lost > the ethernet address for this gateway. arp -a showed > incomplete for the gateway. > When I add a permanent arp entry for the cisco it seems to work > (for now). > > This all occurred after I added an ip alias (from another > c-class network) to both machines. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What netmask did you use? Mike ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Syn-Work Media, Inc. | WWW Development & Hosting | Life Safety http://www.synwork.com | Systems Integration | CCTV mike@synwork.com | Voice/Data/Fiber | Access Control Flaq on IRC | Dukane Distributor | BICSI/RCDD ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 15:57:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA28356 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monet.telebyte.nl (jvissers@monet.telebyte.nl [193.67.242.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA28351 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jvissers@localhost) by monet.telebyte.nl (8.7.3/8.6.11) id AAA22765 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:57:34 +0200 From: Jos Vissers Message-Id: <199607292257.AAA22765@monet.telebyte.nl> Subject: Re: ethernet address disappearing in arp To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:57:34 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199607292219.AAA21842@monet.telebyte.nl> from "Jos Vissers" at Jul 30, 96 00:19:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We've got 2 FreeBSD boxes (2.1.0 and 2.1.5) connected to the > same gateway (a cisco). After a while both of them lost > the ethernet address for this gateway. arp -a showed > incomplete for the gateway. > When I add a permanent arp entry for the cisco it seems to work > (for now). > > This all occurred after I added an ip alias (from another > c-class network) to both machines. > > I've configured one of the two machines as a gateway between > the 2 c-class networks, but they use the same physical link. I forgot to mention the netmask for both aliases is 0xffffff00. Both machines are running routed. Jos -- Jos Vissers, System administrator Telebyte From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 17:05:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA01469 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ecpi.com (ecpi.com [205.238.159.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA01463 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tushar@localhost) by ecpi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA05707 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 19:16:34 GMT From: Tushar Patel Message-Id: <199607291916.TAA05707@ecpi.com> Subject: Please help: What should be the name of the ttyd? after 11 lines To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 19:16:33 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Subject: port name after ttyde ? Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Summary: Keywords: Hi, I am running FreeBSD 2.0.5 with Boca 16 card. I have following (look at end of the mail) defined in the kernel to support Boca16 card. I am running ttyd4 for sio4 ttyd5 for sio5 - - - - ttyde for sio14 all the modems connected on the above ports work fine. As soon as I connect 12th modem on ttydf for sio15 and if I try to login then the system just hangs. What should be the number of the ttyd ports for the sio15 to sio19? Do I have to use ttye0 for sio16? Another strage thing is when I do "ps" for the root I get following PID TT STAT TIME COMMAND 158 v0 Ss 0:01.49 -bash (bash) 3641 v0 R+ 0:00.01 ps 171 df IWs+ 0:00.06 /usr/libexec/getty tp.57600 ttydf 172 dg IWs+ 0:00.05 /usr/libexec/getty tp.57600 ttydg Strange about this is ttydf and ttydg shows up in this process list. Thanks for taking time to help. Tushar tushar@ecpi.com options "COM_MULTIPORT" device sio4 at isa? port 0x180 tty flags 0x1305 device sio5 at isa? port 0x188 tty flags 0x1305 device sio6 at isa? port 0x190 tty flags 0x1305 device sio7 at isa? port 0x198 tty flags 0x1305 device sio8 at isa? port 0x1a0 tty flags 0x1305 device sio9 at isa? port 0x1a8 tty flags 0x1305 device sio10 at isa? port 0x1b0 tty flags 0x1305 device sio11 at isa? port 0x1b8 tty flags 0x1305 device sio12 at isa? port 0x1c0 tty flags 0x1305 device sio13 at isa? port 0x1c8 tty flags 0x1305 device sio14 at isa? port 0x1d0 tty flags 0x1305 device sio15 at isa? port 0x1d8 tty flags 0x1305 device sio16 at isa? port 0x1e0 tty flags 0x1305 device sio17 at isa? port 0x1e8 tty flags 0x1305 device sio18 at isa? port 0x1f0 tty flags 0x1305 device sio19 at isa? port 0x1f8 tty flags 0x1305 irq 15 vector siointr From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Jul 29 18:26:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA05025 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tchnet.tchnet.com (tchnet.tchnet.com [198.109.196.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05019 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dashadow@localhost) by tchnet.tchnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA01263; Mon, 29 Jul 1996 21:26:10 -0400 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 21:26:10 -0400 (EDT) From: John Hart To: James Risner cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wanted best serial board 8-16 port In-Reply-To: <199607291932.PAA29130@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jul 1996, James Risner wrote: > > I have tried Specialx 16 XIO card. > I have tried digiboard pc8e card. > I have tried boca bb1004 card. > > Who has a suggestion for a solid multiple serial card and who > has them for sale or trade for one of the above? > > I get lots of locked ports with the above cards. > where processes like getty are frozen, unkillable and listed under > /bin/ps as "E" or exiting... > I had this problem once too. Check in your rc.serial file to make sure that the drainwait it not setup as infinite. That was our problem, we fixed that and our Boca runs great now. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Hart, System Administrator Technet Internet Services dashadow@tchnet.com (517)796-8200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 03:16:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA05319 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 03:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sharks (caseq@sharks.kylmedia.fi [192.89.81.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA05312 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 03:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sharks (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA10334; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:16:22 +0300 From: caseq@sharks.kylmedia.fi (Andrew Kosyakov) Message-Id: <9607301016.AA10334@sharks> Subject: Re: Wanted best serail board 8-16 port To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:16:21 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Quoting John Hart: > > I have tried boca bb1004 card. [skipped] > fixed that and our Boca runs great now. I wonder, does anyone use boca bb1004 or bb1008 for plugging in dialup modems, not terminals? We recently bought bb1008 and I found that its connectors are RJ12, which have only six pins, connected to RTS, TX, RX, CTS and two grounds. And DCD & DTR just didn't fit :-( And, besides that, my only current modem, internal Courier V.34b (with FIFO, of course), has about 10 "silo overflows" per day on non-loaded pentium 150. So, I wonder, how 8 fast modems would behave with non-intellectual board? -- Sincerely yours /&rew *** Andrew V. Kosyakov, Chance Publishing House, System Administrator caseq@chance.ru, 2:5030/31@Fidonet.Org, +7(812)210-8046 PGP key fingerprint: BA A8 48 20 E4 AE 9C 52 C5 5F C3 B8 1E 67 2C BF From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 04:48:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA12107 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 04:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gbdata.com (GB2.Brewich.COM [207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA12102 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 04:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id GAA14453; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:48:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199607301148.GAA14453@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Wanted best serail board 8-16 port To: caseq@sharks.kylmedia.fi (Andrew Kosyakov) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:48:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9607301016.AA10334@sharks> from Andrew Kosyakov at "Jul 30, 96 01:16:21 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew Kosyakov wrote: > Hi! > > Quoting John Hart: > > > I have tried boca bb1004 card. > [skipped] > > fixed that and our Boca runs great now. > I wonder, does anyone use boca bb1004 or bb1008 for plugging in dialup modems, You have seen the reason why not. The 8 port boards do not have modem control signals which you MUST have to run modems at any decent speed. I belive that the 4 ports do, and know that the 6 and 16 do. I would just stay away from the 8 port boards. Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 04:59:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA12418 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 04:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sharks (caseq@sharks.kylmedia.fi [192.89.81.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA12413 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 04:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sharks (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA11120; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:58:43 +0300 From: caseq@sharks.kylmedia.fi (Andrew Kosyakov) Message-Id: <9607301158.AA11120@sharks> Subject: Re: Wanted best serial board 8-16 port To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:58:42 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Quoting Gary Clark II: > > > fixed that and our Boca runs great now. > > I wonder, does anyone use boca bb1004 or bb1008 for plugging in dialup modems, > You have seen the reason why not. The 8 port boards do not have modem > control signals which you MUST have to run modems at any decent speed. > I belive that the 4 ports do, and know that the 6 and 16 do. I would just No, as it seems to me from the docs, bb1004 is completely identical to bb1008 except for the number of ports (just to warn those, who's going to buy it). > stay away from the 8 port boards. This is exactly what I'm forced to do :-) -- Sincerely yours /&rew *** Andrew V. Kosyakov, Chance Publishing House, System Administrator caseq@chance.ru, 2:5030/31@Fidonet.Org, +7(812)210-8046 PGP key fingerprint: BA A8 48 20 E4 AE 9C 52 C5 5F C3 B8 1E 67 2C BF From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 06:11:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA14724 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.trifecta.com (www.trifecta.com [206.245.150.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA14717 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dev@localhost) by www.trifecta.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA07322; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:08:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Dev Chanchani To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDi --> FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199607292001.NAA27188@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jul 1996, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > Please help! I'm trying to replace my current BSDi 2.0.1 server > 206.24.68.1> with FreeBSD 2.1. > > Please use FreeBSD 2.1.5, 2.1 is outdated and has been supersedded by this > new release. I have been waiting to upgrade 2.1 -> 2.1.5, however, when the new release came out, many people were having problems. Is it safe to do a make world on a running system safely? Also, do you need to backup configuration files or such, or is your system safe as is. Any advice would be appreciated. Dev Chanchani Trifecta Interactive From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 06:17:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA15096 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tchnet.tchnet.com (tchnet.tchnet.com [198.109.196.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA15088 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dashadow@localhost) by tchnet.tchnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA06364; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:17:09 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:17:09 -0400 (EDT) From: John Hart To: Andrew Kosyakov cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wanted best serail board 8-16 port In-Reply-To: <9607301016.AA10334@sharks> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Andrew Kosyakov wrote: > modem, internal Courier V.34b (with FIFO, of course), has about 10 "silo > overflows" per day on non-loaded pentium 150. So, I wonder, how 8 fast modems > would behave with non-intellectual board? We run 32 modems with the Boca Boards, all with 16550's and Boca Rack modems. We get about 5 or so Silo's each day from each modem, and we've got a Dual P100 with 128mb of ram for our main server. It has just become a fact of life around here to reboot when the silos get to large so they don't lock the system. Anyone else have any solutions? (We run at a max speed of 115200.) John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Hart, System Administrator Technet Internet Services dashadow@tchnet.com (517)796-8200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 07:15:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18571 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbd.gfoster.com (dyna237.intr.net [204.157.123.237]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18555 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by tbd.gfoster.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA17920; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:13:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199607301413.KAA17920@tbd.gfoster.com> To: dev@trifecta.com CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Dev Chanchani on Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:08:35 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: upgrading from 2.1.0R to 2.1.5R (Was: BSDi --> FreeBSD) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have installed the 2.1.5 source and made world without problems on several 2.1R machines including the one I am typing this on. Make sure you completely replace everything under /usr/src, not just overwrite it and make sure you make a new kernel after making world and before rebooting. One of the FreeBSD core members said once that you should be running single-user when making world but I have not found this to be necessary. Except for saving a copy of custom kernel configuration files, there is no need to treat config. files specially but I suspect that some things may have changed, e.g. /etc/sysconfig. Using the 2.1R configuration files when everything else is 2.1.5R has not resulted in any incompatibilities for me. I haven't had time to chase this down. Of course, you should always have a current backup! I will shortly be doing this on a system which I took from 2.0 to 2.1 by the same method and I will report any problems I encounter. Glen Foster >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:08:35 -0400 (EDT) >From: Dev Chanchani > >I have been waiting to upgrade 2.1 -> 2.1.5, however, when the new >release came out, many people were having problems. Is it safe to do a >make world on a running system safely? Also, do you need to backup >configuration files or such, or is your system safe as is. Any advice >would be appreciated. > >Dev Chanchani From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 08:45:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA05727 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbd.gfoster.com (pppdial.usaep.org [205.185.81.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA05693 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by tbd.gfoster.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA18037; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:42:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199607301542.LAA18037@tbd.gfoster.com> To: dennis@etinc.com CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199607301510.LAA01781@etinc.com> (dennis@etinc.com) Subject: Re: upgrading from 2.1.0R to 2.1.5R (Was: BSDi --> FreeBSD) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After I sent my message I got curious too. % diff /etc/sysconfig /usr/src/etc/sysconfig On my system (where /etc is the 2.1.0 stuff and /usr/src is 2.1.5) shows the following changes (summarized): conversion to /etc/rc.d startup stuff for local startup options (/etc/rc.local is run if it is present) mrouted=NO (new option to turn off multicast) amdflags (new option) "probably doesn't work" messages removed from quotas and accounting pccard configuration section linux emulation option (load LKM at boot) random interrupts section (looks like kernel support for some sharing of IRQS between HW devices but that's all the clue I have) new startup files, rc.firewall (called from netstart), and rc.pccard (called from rc) Obviously, the files that do something with these have been modified as well, these include /etc/rc, /etc/rc.WHATEVER, and /etc/netstart at least. Interested parties should probably look in the commit logs for the details of the changes. It looks like moving one's configuration details from 2.1 to 2.1.5 is more than just editing the sysconfig file. Glen Foster >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:10:50 -0400 >From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) > >On this note...can anyone detail the changes (if any) to sysconfig between >2.10R and 2.15R? > >Dennis >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 09:29:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA14579 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from radio.nwpros.com (nwpros.com [205.229.128.214]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14552 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rickbox.nwpros.com (rickbox.nwpros.com [205.229.128.217]) by radio.nwpros.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA02198 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:32:33 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960730164016.006871ec@nwpros.com> X-Sender: rickg@nwpros.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:40:16 -0500 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Rick Gray Subject: Quotas Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have recently enabled quotas on FBSD 2.1R. When I go in to create a quota for a user and then go back to look at the user's quota with a -u it shows none. Any one have any clues? I am using NFS also if this makes a difference.... Thanks in advance. ************************************************ Rick Gray Director of Internet Services Network Pros, Inc. rickg@nwpros.com (713)780-5900 "It is a good day to die." ----Klingon Philosophy ************************************************ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 09:53:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17872 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA17858 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA28740; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:53:40 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199607301653.JAA28740@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: BSDi --> FreeBSD To: dev@trifecta.com (Dev Chanchani) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Dev Chanchani at "Jul 30, 96 09:08:35 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 29 Jul 1996, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > Please help! I'm trying to replace my current BSDi 2.0.1 server > > 206.24.68.1> with FreeBSD 2.1. > > > > Please use FreeBSD 2.1.5, 2.1 is outdated and has been supersedded by this > > new release. > > I have been waiting to upgrade 2.1 -> 2.1.5, however, when the new > release came out, many people were having problems. Can you elaborate on these? I haven't seen many reported 2.1.5 problems. > Is it safe to do a make world on a running system safely? Not really, as some things will be in a transitory state for long periods of time some programs may core dump. > Also, do you need to backup configuration files or such, or is your > system safe as is. Any advice would be appreciated. You should _ALWAYS_ have backups of EVERYTHING, not just your configuration files. Disk drives do fail, and not having a backup of them is asking for a long and painful night or two of reconstruction. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 10:06:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA18639 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA18626 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA22871; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:04:59 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199607301704.MAA22871@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: BSDi --> FreeBSD To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:04:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dev@trifecta.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199607301653.JAA28740@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jul 30, 96 09:53:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is it safe to do a make world on a running system safely? > > Not really, as some things will be in a transitory state for long periods > of time some programs may core dump. This is very true. While it may appear to work, and in many cases works just fine, there are also risks associated with doing this. > > Also, do you need to backup configuration files or such, or is your > > system safe as is. Any advice would be appreciated. > > You should _ALWAYS_ have backups of EVERYTHING, not just your configuration > files. Disk drives do fail, and not having a backup of them is asking for > a long and painful night or two of reconstruction. So... what are you saying. :-) :-) :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 11:15:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA23603 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (root@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA23592 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA24827 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:15:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199607301815.LAA24827@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:15:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi everyone. I am looking into buying a Cisco 2503i router and have a quote of $1866 with IP feature set. Is this a good price ? Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 11:48:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA27016 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA27010 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA22991; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:47:08 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199607301847.NAA22991@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: ulf@lamb.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:47:08 -0500 (CDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199607301815.LAA24827@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> from "Ulf Zimmermann" at Jul 30, 96 11:15:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi everyone. > > I am looking into buying a Cisco 2503i router and have a quote of > $1866 with IP feature set. Is this a good price ? > > Regards, Ulf. I guess that depends what you plan on doing with it. Some of us think that a PCI FreeBSD box makes a nice inexpensive router. It may at least be an option that you should consider. For Ethernet/Ethernet routing, it is hard to beat pricewise. Take a 486DX/133 PCI MB+CPU ($150), 21040 Ethernet ($50) x 2, 8MB RAM (< $100), a small hard disk ($150), and a case and misc ($100)... about $600. If I recall correctly, a 2503 is an ISDN-capable router, or maybe one of their other access routers.. I don't know what it does for ISDN though. I do know that I can get a BitSurfer Pro for about $375, and since you'd only need one Ethernet, you could have an async ISDN router for about $925. If you want a sync serial port, I encourage you to consider ET's products (http://www.etinc.com), you'd probably wind up closer to $1200 without an ISDN solution.. In any case, I _suspect_ that the FreeBSD box would make a faster router than the Cisco. However, it does have "moving components" and therefore is perhaps more subject to failure... this has been debated often enough that I'm not going to go any further than this. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 11:59:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28719 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (root@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28714 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA24898; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:57:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199607301857.LAA24898@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199607301847.NAA22991@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Jul 30, 96 01:47:08 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi everyone. > > > > I am looking into buying a Cisco 2503i router and have a quote of > > $1866 with IP feature set. Is this a good price ? > > > > Regards, Ulf. > > I guess that depends what you plan on doing with it. > > Some of us think that a PCI FreeBSD box makes a nice inexpensive router. > It may at least be an option that you should consider. > > For Ethernet/Ethernet routing, it is hard to beat pricewise. Take a > 486DX/133 PCI MB+CPU ($150), 21040 Ethernet ($50) x 2, 8MB RAM (< $100), > a small hard disk ($150), and a case and misc ($100)... about $600. I know, I do that all the time. but in this case I need an external box. > > If I recall correctly, a 2503 is an ISDN-capable router, or maybe one of > their other access routers.. I don't know what it does for ISDN though. > I do know that I can get a BitSurfer Pro for about $375, and since you'd > only need one Ethernet, you could have an async ISDN router for about $925. The 2503i is hardware wise a 2503, that means 2 serial WAN ports and 1 ISDN port. The 2503i is a so called mission specific version, which means it runs only the ISDN port and the serial ports are disabled. > > If you want a sync serial port, I encourage you to consider ET's products > (http://www.etinc.com), you'd probably wind up closer to $1200 without an > ISDN solution.. > > In any case, I _suspect_ that the FreeBSD box would make a faster router > than the Cisco. However, it does have "moving components" and therefore is > perhaps more subject to failure... this has been debated often enough that > I'm not going to go any further than this. > > ... JG > So to finish it, I am really only looking for a compare what other people might have paid, or have in their price list ;-) Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 12:38:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00846 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.trifecta.com (www.trifecta.com [206.245.150.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA00840 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dev@localhost) by www.trifecta.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA00206; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:38:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Dev Chanchani To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDi --> FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199607301653.JAA28740@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > I have been waiting to upgrade 2.1 -> 2.1.5, however, when the new > > release came out, many people were having problems. > > Can you elaborate on these? I haven't seen many reported 2.1.5 problems. Sure, I heard about problems with the 3com 3c509 drivers and such. Just things like that (i happen to have a 3com 3c509). > > > Is it safe to do a make world on a running system safely? > > Not really, as some things will be in a transitory state for long periods > of time some programs may core dump. Hmm, any recomendations? Dev Chanchani From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 14:33:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA08791 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from macbeth.ienet.com ([207.78.32.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08771 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brutus.ienet.com (brit.ienet.com [207.78.32.155]) by macbeth.ienet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19223; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31FDD793.6823@ienet.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 02:36:19 -0700 From: Terry Lee Organization: Internet Express Network, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inet-access@earth.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org CC: Pius Fischer Subject: looking to exchange secondary DNS service Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm looking for party to exchange secondary DNS services with. My requirements are reliable T-1 or greater service to a backbone provider other than UUNet (we are with UUNet). Preferably MCI or Net99 or some other major carrier. And of course a reliable and reasonably fast DNS server. E-mail me if you are interested. Best regards, Terry -- Terry Lee Technical Director mailto:terryl@ienet.com I N T E R N E T D E S I G N G R O U P 213.488.6100 fax.488.6101 A Division of INTERNET EXPRESS NETWORK, INC http://www.mall.net From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 14:40:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09550 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09411 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA29439; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:39:37 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199607302139.OAA29439@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: BSDi --> FreeBSD To: dev@trifecta.com (Dev Chanchani) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Dev Chanchani at "Jul 30, 96 03:38:15 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > I have been waiting to upgrade 2.1 -> 2.1.5, however, when the new > > > release came out, many people were having problems. > > > > Can you elaborate on these? I haven't seen many reported 2.1.5 problems. > > Sure, I heard about problems with the 3com 3c509 drivers and such. Just > things like that (i happen to have a 3com 3c509). if_ep has been a sore spot for a long long time, this is nothing new with 2.1.5, though it was broken in the initial release of 2.1.5 and then quickly fixed. > > > Is it safe to do a make world on a running system safely? > > > > Not really, as some things will be in a transitory state for long periods > > of time some programs may core dump. > > Hmm, any recomendations? I'll defer on that one... it is very site specifc as to how to proceded with building things peice meal wise as to not disturb the running system. Read and fully understand the /usr/src/Makefile world: target, most of it can be done while up multiuser, but anything that is going to touch binaries (and that includes /usr/lib) is best done without a load on the system. Those who claim that they have not had problems running ``make world'' on live systems are either very lucky (ie, there load we very light) or they ignored the few programs that dumped core while versions of things where out of sync. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 15:05:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA11612 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skipper.epsilon.nl (skipper.epsilon.nl [194.178.91.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11592 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jouke (async29.epsilon.nl [194.178.91.79]) by skipper.epsilon.nl (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA17336; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:03:36 +0200 Message-Id: <199607302203.AAA17336@skipper.epsilon.nl> From: "Jouke Dijkstra" To: "Joe Greco" , "Ulf Zimmermann" Cc: Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:00:55 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1132 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The 2503i has ISDN indeed. In fact, it's a nice sollution for a router with ISDN, though this device has the capability to be severe overkill, which you have to pay for.. About those moving parts: When you use BOOTP on a FreeBSD server, add enough RAM so it won't swap, you'll have no moving parts! If you use high quality parts (ASUS, PCI (?), a power supply you can trust etc), you might have something at least at the same level as a Cisco.. - Jouke From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 16:16:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA16620 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aries.ai.net ([208.194.41.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16614 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id TAA17030; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:16:59 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:16:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: Joe Greco , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: <199607301857.LAA24898@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The 2503i is hardware wise a 2503, that means 2 serial WAN ports and 1 ISDN > port. The 2503i is a so called mission specific version, which means it runs > only the ISDN port and the serial ports are disabled. If you are connecting this mission specific router to a Cisco on the other end, you can use something cheaper like a Cisco 900 with only an ISDN and Ethernet interface [if its not a model 900, don't shoot me]. Tomas Lawrence American Information Network From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 16:46:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA18040 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbd.gfoster.com (dyna237.intr.net [204.157.123.237]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18035 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by tbd.gfoster.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA18549; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:44:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199607302344.TAA18549@tbd.gfoster.com> To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com CC: dev@trifecta.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199607302139.OAA29439@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: on-the-fly upgrade from 2.1 to 2.1.5 (was: BSDi --> FreeBSD) Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Claim?" Why would somebody lie about this? I suspect that the 20 or 30 times I've "made world" are far fewer than Rod can boast but my attempts (most on running systems) have resulted in remarkably few problems (since 2.0-RELEASE, at least). My mileage: it is unwise to expect to be able to do this if one hasn't done it for each and every SNAP and RELEASE that has occurred since the last binary install. Missing a "round" or two leaves one vulnerable to the kinds of things that Rod is talking about. In other words, libraries, kernel code, header files, et.al. seem to have been closely compatible enough over the last year from minor-release to minor-release to let most programs creak through temporary version inconsistencies. That is not to say that occasional problems, in the guise of programs that do not run until they and their libraries' versions synchronise, will not be encountered. Each user must decide for themselves which of "disallow user services while making world" or "take a chance on a program or ten croaking but otherwise keeping the system up" works for them. Either way, make sure you have a current backup! Glen Foster >From: "Rodney W. Grimes" >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:39:37 -0700 (PDT) >Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG > > On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > >Read and fully understand the /usr/src/Makefile world: target, most of it >can be done while up multiuser, but anything that is going to touch >binaries (and that includes /usr/lib) is best done without a load on the >system. > >Those who claim that they have not had problems running ``make world'' >on live systems are either very lucky (ie, there load we very light) >or they ignored the few programs that dumped core while versions of >things where out of sync. > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 20:08:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA28326 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA28321 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05537; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:07:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:07:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Joe Greco cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: <199607301847.NAA22991@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > For Ethernet/Ethernet routing, it is hard to beat pricewise. Take a > 486DX/133 PCI MB+CPU ($150), 21040 Ethernet ($50) x 2, 8MB RAM (< $100), > a small hard disk ($150), and a case and misc ($100)... about $600. I've got a source for ZNYX 314s @ $125. He doesn't have many left, and doesn't get them in that often, but they're more than worth it. Email me if you're interested. (A ZNYX 314 for those of you who don't know, is a 4 port dc21040 based ethernet card for PCI. Very nifty.) Have a good one. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 20:44:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00108 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.inetnebr.com (kyricc@falcon.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA29997 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kyricc@localhost) by falcon.inetnebr.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA02420 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:44:35 -0500 (CDT) From: "Mr. Jason A. Borgmann" Message-Id: <199607310344.WAA02420@falcon.inetnebr.com> Subject: Business side of an ISP To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:44:34 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am in the process of starting an ISP in my area. However, I'm not too sure what it will take on the business side of the deal. Is there anyone that knows where I can get info on: How to deal with the taxes Record Keeping How to go about registering our company name If there is a web page or ftp archive that has this information someone could point me to? Or if anyone has this info already could you send it to me? Thanks, Jason kyricc@inetnebr.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jul 30 23:49:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA10758 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 23:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tulpi.interconnect.com.au (root@tulpi.interconnect.com.au [192.189.54.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA10752 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 1996 23:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ahill@localhost) by tulpi.interconnect.com.au id QAA27568 (8.7.4/IDA-1.6); Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:49:07 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:49:06 +1000 (EST) From: Anthony Hill To: Network Coordinator cc: Ulf Zimmermann , Joe Greco , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We use the cisco 1004 and 1003 for this kind of dedicated ISDN router stuff. On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Network Coordinator wrote: > > The 2503i is hardware wise a 2503, that means 2 serial WAN ports and 1 ISDN > > port. The 2503i is a so called mission specific version, which means it runs > > only the ISDN port and the serial ports are disabled. > > If you are connecting this mission specific router to a Cisco on the > other end, you can use something cheaper like a Cisco 900 with only an > ISDN and Ethernet interface [if its not a model 900, don't shoot me]. > > Tomas Lawrence > American Information Network From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 00:04:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA11648 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.asiapac.net (gandalf.asiapac.net [202.188.0.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA11638 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnc0165.asiapac.net (tnc0165.asiapac.net [202.188.0.165]) by gandalf.asiapac.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA22857 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:48:12 +0800 Message-Id: <199607310648.OAA22857@gandalf.asiapac.net> X-Sender: sckhoo@mail.asiapac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:58:43 -0800 To: isp@freebsd.org From: Khoo Swee Chuan Subject: number of servers Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi, I am in a company which is chartered to startup isp in my country. I always hear people say about "keep it simple", just one question, does that mean i should have one machine ( FreeBSD ) each on mail/ftp/web/dns/etc etc or run multiple type of servers in one machine, provided money is not a problem. :) Which one is simpler? I'll want to have individual machine doing specific job. WHat u think? Thanx. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Khoo Swee Chuan ( The Network Connections ) sckhoo@asiapac.net | | http://www.asiapac.net/~sckhoo/ | | tel:603-7337757 fax:603-7345577 #include | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes." From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 02:23:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA17512 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 02:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA17453 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 02:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.vividnet.com (mail.vividnet.com [206.149.144.3]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id BAA01161 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 01:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aquarius.vividnet.com (postmaster@mail.vividnet.com) by mail.vividnet.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id BAA15889; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 01:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 01:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Wang To: Khoo Swee Chuan cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: number of servers In-Reply-To: <199607310648.OAA22857@gandalf.asiapac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Khoo Swee Chuan wrote: > hi, > > I am in a company which is chartered to startup isp > in my country. > I always hear people say about "keep it simple", > just one question, does that mean i should have one machine ( FreeBSD ) > each on mail/ftp/web/dns/etc etc or run multiple type of servers in > one machine, provided money is not a problem. :) > Which one is simpler? I'll want to have individual machine > doing specific job. WHat u think? All in one box vs. distributed environment, which is simpler to setup? One box approach is probably easier, since you won't have to worry about things like remote-backups, maintaining/syncing password files, upgrading/installin/maintainingg a fleet of FreeBSD servers..etc. However, I do not recommend the above approach (Others will proabably recommend the same thing), because when your one box goes down, everything goes down. It takes more effort, and costs more to operate a several boxes approach, but your customers will be much happier, because when a box goes down, you still have other boxes running. Make sure you have backup-servers for critical services like Radius/Mail..etc. If money is not a problem, buy all the redundancy you will need! --> Multiple T1's through different upstream, extra router, and extra hardware! Lastly, hire competent staffs to keep everything simple :) Sincerely, Brian Wang From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 06:56:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA29963 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 06:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA29958 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 06:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA24111; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:55:42 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199607311355.IAA24111@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: number of servers To: sckhoo@asiapac.net (Khoo Swee Chuan) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:55:41 -0500 (CDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199607310648.OAA22857@gandalf.asiapac.net> from "Khoo Swee Chuan" at Jul 31, 96 02:58:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > hi, > > I am in a company which is chartered to startup isp > in my country. > I always hear people say about "keep it simple", > just one question, does that mean i should have one machine ( FreeBSD ) > each on mail/ftp/web/dns/etc etc or run multiple type of servers in > one machine, provided money is not a problem. :) > Which one is simpler? I'll want to have individual machine > doing specific job. WHat u think? > > Thanx. You may wish to study what I've implemented, it would be very applicable to a small-scale ISP and it should scale well in the future. Having one box per service gets a little hard to manage, and a little wasteful, when you consider that most core services (DNS, mail, etc) should be redundant. You will end up finding that reliability monitoring becomes more complex :-( On the other hand, having one box doing it all is a disaster waiting to happen. In general, I like to maintain the mindset that I should be able to lose any one machine and be able to rebuild it from scratch within a reasonably short period of time, should disaster strike. Backups are not a consideration, this is simply a rule to limit a machine's _complexity_. For example, my virtual Web and FTP server fulfills those two functions and nothing else. My services machines (currently Anacreon and Smyrno) provide DNS, mail spooling, and NTP time services. Although Anacreon provides primary DNS, these machines are otherwise very similar and act as redundant backups to each other. My routers route (and firewall) and provide no other services. The one machine that will tend to be more complex and nightmarish, no matter what you do, is a shell account server. Mainly thanks to all the s/w you have to load on it.. Anyways, it is a REALLY GOOD PRACTICE to devise and archive away a _standard_ template for _all_ your systems. There are things that I do to all of my FreeBSD systems, and I know what each one is and every time I install a new box, I run down the checklist. After that, it is good to have a sub-template for various types of machines, i.e. a Web server, etc. You should be able to recreate your baseline machines entirely from your templates. If you can't, you will lose your mind managing the complexity and the details. A simple, yet elegant (IMHO) architecture from the network point of view: --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- |Border Router| |Border Router| |Border Router| |Border Router| | (To Peer) | | (To Peer) | | (To Cust's) | | (To Cust's) | --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- | | | | |==========================================================================| | | --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- | Core Router | | Core Router |-----| Virtual Web | | Office LAN | | (To POP's) | | (Internal) | | Server Box | | (PC's etc) | --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- ___/ \ \ \_______________________/ / \ \ --------------- \ \ --------------- --------------- | News Server | \ \ | Terminal / | | Shell Acct | | | \ \ | PPP Server | | Server/Host | --------------- \ \ --------------- --------------- | \ | | | |=====================================| | | --------------- --------------- | | Services #1 | | Services #2 | \ | DNS/NTP/mail| | DNS/NTP/mail| \ --------------- --------------- \ | | |=====================================| There is a lot of room for flexibility here. Because the number of nodes on any particular network is kept relatively low, it is easier to do things like migrate the backbone to 100baseT (and due to the segregation of internal traffic, one has less concerns about an intruder on the shell box being able to see your administrative traffic and getting ahold of passwords on your other key systems). It's also relatively easy to add redundancy within the network architecture. Many ISP's make the Big Mistake of putting everything on a common wire - don't give into temptation. The network diagram above is, in fact, substantially similar to what I use, although it's been cleaned up a bit. There's obviously a lot to think about when deploying an ISP, and it needs to go much farther than just simple "one box or two" questions. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 07:08:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA00547 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA00542 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA24138; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:06:26 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199607311406.JAA24138@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: jouke@epsilon.nl (Jouke Dijkstra) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:06:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: ulf@lamb.net, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199607302203.AAA17336@skipper.epsilon.nl> from "Jouke Dijkstra" at Jul 31, 96 00:00:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The 2503i has ISDN indeed. In fact, it's a nice sollution for a router with > ISDN, though this > device has the capability to be severe overkill, which you have to pay > for.. > > About those moving parts: When you use BOOTP on a FreeBSD server, add > enough RAM > so it won't swap, you'll have no moving parts! If you use high quality > parts (ASUS, PCI (?), a > power supply you can trust etc), you might have something at least at the > same level as a > Cisco.. Booting off the net, you mean? In that case, it simply becomes dependent on another "unreliable" piece of hardware - the remote NFS server. And I'm not particularly trusting of things like PC fans. Don't get me wrong - I use FreeBSD (exclusively) for routing on my LAN's. There are substantial benefits in doing so. However, it does have a "cost". Since I'm two minutes away from a PC vendor, maybe I don't care though. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 07:10:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA00671 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irbs.irbs.com (irbs.com [199.182.75.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA00656 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.irbs.com (8.7.5/8.6.6) id KAA24552; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:09:37 -0400 (EDT) From: John Capo Message-Id: <199607311409.KAA24552@irbs.irbs.com> Subject: Re: host & domain To: gism@isot.isot.com (Global Internet Shopping Mall) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199607290943.EAA12788@isot.isot.com> from Global Internet Shopping Mall at "Jul 29, 96 04:43:18 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Global Internet Shopping Mall writes: > In case of name1.name2.com, is it safe to assume, that the host is name1 and > the domain is name2.com in all cases at /etc/sysconfig??? > Any host/domain names used in /etc/sysconfig must be in /etc/hosts. Host/domain names that are not in /etc/hosts can not be resolved until the network is up and the network can not be brought up till the host/domain names in /etc/sysconfig are resolved. Also, "hosts" must appear before "bind" in /etc/host.conf. This is not the default. Since you have to put name1.name2.com in /etc/hosts, you will know whether name1 is a host or a domain. John Capo jc@irbs.com IRBS Engineering FreeBSD Servers and Workstations (954) 792-9551 Unix/Internet Consulting - ISP Solutions From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 07:47:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA03644 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (root@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA03633 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA26636; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:47:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199607311447.HAA26636@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: deasey@mymachine.com (Geoffrey Deasey) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Geoffrey Deasey at "Jul 30, 96 11:47:29 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The 2503i is a mission critical version, it directly includes the software, which disables the serial port. You can later buy the full version ($1200 list price) to upgrade and use the serial ports. Ulf. > make shure that includes the grand or so of software. > > > On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > > Hi everyone. > > > > I am looking into buying a Cisco 2503i router and have a quote of > > $1866 with IP feature set. Is this a good price ? > > > > Regards, Ulf. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 > > Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ > > > > Geoffrey Deasey / / /\ / / / \/ > Netpath/Stratonet /__ / / \/ /__/ /\ > 910-226-0425 Forever ! > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 11:18:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA14647 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 11:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.trifecta.com (www.trifecta.com [206.245.150.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA14642 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 11:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dev@localhost) by www.trifecta.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA00565; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:18:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Dev Chanchani To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Backup Servers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a question regarding backup servers. We have our main server which handles primary DNS, mail, and web traffic. I have another machine which I would ilke to take over functions in the event of primary server failure. DNS is the easy one as secondary will be queried when primary does not respond. For mail, I guess I can define another Mail eXchanger (MX Record in the DNS files) with a lower priority right? Well, if this machine receives mail, how do I have it feed the mail back to the main server when it comes back up? Also, do I need to duplicate all acounts on the backup machine to have it receive the mail without bouncing it. Also, in terms of having a backup web server, I guess I would either hack or get a special named which would hand out different IP addresses (for the backup server) in the event of primary server downtime. Any help on these topics would be greatly appreciated. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 14:02:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA26864 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.multinet.net (helix.multinet.net [204.138.173.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26854; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from help.multinet.net (help.multinet.net [204.191.112.5]) by mail.multinet.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA18905; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:57:22 GMT Message-Id: <199607312057.UAA18905@mail.multinet.net> X-Sender: root@multinet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:11:11 -0400 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: admin@mail.multinet.net (graydon hoare) Subject: which DES is which? Cc: freebsd-secure@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy. Got a little query here. I'm running a bunch of netblazers here for dialup and they all use tftp to fetch their passwords from files stored on the old tandem nonstop/UX machine (which runs a pungent at&t DES)... and I'm shortly going to be transferring all this over to the FreeBSD servers. Now I'm in canada, so I know (or think I know) I'm allowed to use DES in all its glory without bending any noses, so I fetched the des package from freefall and had it link up with libcrypt.a and .so.2.0 etc... and sure enough when I passwd any of my test accounts, new short fluffy des-ish passwords show up in /etc/master.passwd. However, I don't know what des-mode libdescrypt is operating in here, and I have a feeling it's the wrong one. If I passwd twice in a row with the same password, I get two different outputs. I was under the impression that the login system crypt(3)'ed your password and then compared the output of that to something stored in the passwd file (or pwd.db in freeBSD's case), and I know that's what the netblazers will do -- fetch the passwd file, des what the user tells them internally, and compare the results as strings... so -- crypto gurus of the world, I mean I know I'm essentially asking for a way to make my password file dictionary-attackable, but I think in this case it's what is required for users to login. How do I fix this, or can you elaborate on why I am seeing this behaviour from libdescrypt? The netblazers understand kerberos as well, unfortunately _I_ don't understand much about kerberos. Would this make an altogether more pleasant situation? ps. I got libdes (the MIT one that comes with the ebones package) dangling around in the /usr/lib so I tried linking libcrypt to libdes and see what happened... it says it can't find the symbol _crypt, which is odd cause the documentation says clearly that MIT libdes impliments "a pretty fast crypt(3)". >?< God I hate export restrictions. This could be so much simpler. -graydon From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Jul 31 23:31:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA01052 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 23:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from npc.haplink.co.cn ([202.96.192.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01047 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 23:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from xiyuan@localhost) by npc.haplink.co.cn (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02285 for isp@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:39:10 GMT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:39:10 GMT From: xiyuan qian Message-Id: <199608011439.OAA02285@npc.haplink.co.cn> To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Backup my system Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, What's the contents I must backup with my host as a DNS and mail server? How ofen do I need to do so? How can I do so, with tar, or any other tool? --xiyuan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 01:59:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05142 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from npc.haplink.co.cn ([202.96.192.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA05131 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from xiyuan@localhost) by npc.haplink.co.cn (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA02605; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:06:50 GMT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:06:50 GMT From: xiyuan qian Message-Id: <199608011706.RAA02605@npc.haplink.co.cn> To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Backup my system Cc: steve@cioeserv.cioe.com Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, What's the contents I must backup in my host as a DNS and mail server? How often do I need to do so? How can I do so, with tar, or any other tool? --xiyuan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 06:48:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA15463 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 06:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isot.isot.com (root@internet-of-texas.Houston.mci.net [204.70.37.26]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA15458 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 06:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gism.isot.com (gism.isot.com [206.24.68.34]) by isot.isot.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA22967; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:28:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:28:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199608010928.EAA22967@isot.isot.com> X-Sender: gism@ns.isot.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: Global Internet Shopping Mall Subject: Re: number of servers Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >For example, my virtual Web and FTP server fulfills those two functions and >nothing else. My services machines (currently Anacreon and Smyrno) provide >DNS, mail spooling, and NTP time services. Although Anacreon provides >primary DNS, these machines are otherwise very similar and act as redundant >backups to each other. My routers route (and firewall) and provide no other >services. I'm using internal card by Riscom n2csu which has T1 csu/dsu/router built on, and Cyclades 16 port serials. They are both in a single BSDi box which does everything. I would like to separate the server functions using FreeBSD. I was looking into separating 16 serial ports into its own PC, csu/dsu/router into its own PC which handles DNS/Mail, and Web into its own PC. Is this a good start? If separating, all PCs will still have to have FreeBSD installed execept that the un-needed functions disabled? From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 08:00:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA18860 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18854 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA25681; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:58:37 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199608011458.JAA25681@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: number of servers To: gism@isot.isot.com (Global Internet Shopping Mall) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:58:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608010928.EAA22967@isot.isot.com> from "Global Internet Shopping Mall" at Aug 1, 96 04:28:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >For example, my virtual Web and FTP server fulfills those two functions and > >nothing else. My services machines (currently Anacreon and Smyrno) provide > >DNS, mail spooling, and NTP time services. Although Anacreon provides > >primary DNS, these machines are otherwise very similar and act as redundant > >backups to each other. My routers route (and firewall) and provide no other > >services. > > I'm using internal card by Riscom n2csu which has T1 csu/dsu/router built > on, and Cyclades 16 port serials. They are both in a single BSDi box which > does everything. I would like to separate the server functions using > FreeBSD. I was looking into separating 16 serial ports into its own PC, > csu/dsu/router into its own PC which handles DNS/Mail, and Web into its own PC. > > Is this a good start? If separating, all PCs will still have to have > FreeBSD installed execept that the un-needed functions disabled? My philosophy generally suggests that you should seperate "server" functions from "network" functions... If I had two boxes to do your setup (not preferable!), I would probably put the Riscom and Cyclades in the same box, and put DNS/Mail/Web on the second box. If I had three boxes, I would probably split the Riscom and Cyclades. Ideally I'd want four boxes, and split the DNS/Mail from the Web stuff too. This is the "safest" configuration. This way, if you have a bunch of PPP customers, and some fool decides to advertise that your Web server has a bunch of dirty pix (and your Web server DIES), you're still marginally OK. Same thing goes for a mailstorm. It would be really bad to have your T1 router handling DNS/Mail. Try to consider the damage that somebody can inflict on your network. Then take every step you can reasonably take to minimize it. (note: other folks might argue to split the DNS/Mail from the Web stuff if you have three boxes, rather than splitting the Riscom and Cyclades. My reason for doing the Riscom and Cyclades is simple: it is more expensive to build two well-provisioned "server" class systems, and cheaper to build router-class boxes. Neither choice is "wrong" - consider your needs and your available cash.) A well designed architecture will do everything it can to be multiply redundant, and to avoid any major single point of failure. In the case where you do have a single point of failure, it should be as trivial as possible. If you saw the network diagram I posted, even though my "core" router is a single point of failure, if it failed, I could be up and running in an hour or two even if I had to start from scratch with a new box and a FreeBSD boot floppy. There is NO complexity at ALL, and the machine is trivial. Even if you don't have a single point of failure, do what you can to improve reliability... When somebody tried to take out a customer with a mailbomb half a year ago, by subscribing an expired account to every mailing list on the List of Mailing Lists, they did a fair job of killing the performance on Anacreon and Smyrno... but even though they were beating the hell out of my primary and secondary DNS/mail servers, things continued to work fine (just a little more slowly). Each UNIX box around here is set up as a caching DNS server with a forwarders directive pointing at dns1/dns2. That means that even if dns1/dns2 are not available, each UNIX box is still able to do name lookups. This is much better than your average situation where everybody points their resolv.conf at two nameservers... although it costs a little in terms of RAM on the local machine. There are dozens of reliability engineering tricks that can be done to enhance the reliability and stability of a networked UNIX system. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 08:07:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA19380 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.trifecta.com (www.trifecta.com [206.245.150.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19364 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dev@localhost) by www.trifecta.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA01859; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:07:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Dev Chanchani To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Upgrade 2.1-R -> 2.1.5-R Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am upgrading my FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE to 2.1.5-RELEASE. I went to ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/freebsd-current and got sys.tar.gz and did a make world. I am getting various errors including an error from the linker (ld) saying -O is not a valid flag. DO I have a beta source tree? Where should I get the stable source tree from? Dev Chanchani From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 08:51:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA21762 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21757 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA20090; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:55:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:55:03 -0400 Message-Id: <199608011555.LAA20090@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Louis A. Mamakos" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >The 2503i is a mission critical version, it directly includes the software, >> >which disables the serial port. You can later buy the full version ($1200 >> >list price) to upgrade and use the serial ports. >> >> Does that include the (required) memory upgrade? >> >> So your talking $3000. for a box with 2 serial ports, an ISDN connection >> and a '386-speed processor? Eeek! > >Two T1 ports, ISDN, support for T1 PPP, Cisco HDLC, Frame Relay and >SMDS. Packet filtering. OSPF, RIP, RIP-2, EIGRP, BGP routing >protocols (if you need them). Look at the 2524 which has provisions >for integral 56K DDS or T1 CSU/DSUs to further reduce the system cost. > >Plus, you can plug it in and it works. No interrupt vectors, dma >channels to fool with. Small package. Only a fan for moving parts, >and no fsck. > >Not everyone is willing to spend a lot of time integrating a box when >you can essentially buy an appliance off the shelf which does a better >job. Are we going to start this whole discussion again? > "Better job?" Its still a pig....my comment is that its VERY expensive for what you get, and the guy was asking if it was a good price. Obviously anyone who can't build their own has to buy...I'm not arguing with that. But anyone who says that a unit that comes with 10,000 pages of documentation is a "plug it in and it works" unit doesnt remember the first time they got one and had to figure out how to configure it. Configuring a couple of subinterfaces for frame relay is a lot more complicated with a Cisco than with FreeBSD. The bottom line it that no matter what you get, it ain't that easy. There's no such thing as plug and play in this business. Check out www.etinc.com/routers.htm for an ironic perspective of the whole concept. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 09:31:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23612 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (root@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23607 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA29056; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:29:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199608011629.JAA29056@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011516.KAA25748@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Aug 1, 96 10:16:31 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmmm, I don't know who moved it to hackers, but I started it in -isp :) Ulf. > > > >The 2503i is a mission critical version, it directly includes the software, > > > >which disables the serial port. You can later buy the full version ($1200 > > > >list price) to upgrade and use the serial ports. > > > > > > Does that include the (required) memory upgrade? > > > > > > So your talking $3000. for a box with 2 serial ports, an ISDN connection > > > and a '386-speed processor? Eeek! > > > > Two T1 ports, ISDN, support for T1 PPP, Cisco HDLC, Frame Relay and > > SMDS. Packet filtering. OSPF, RIP, RIP-2, EIGRP, BGP routing > > protocols (if you need them). Look at the 2524 which has provisions > > for integral 56K DDS or T1 CSU/DSUs to further reduce the system cost. > > > > Plus, you can plug it in and it works. No interrupt vectors, dma > > channels to fool with. Small package. Only a fan for moving parts, > > and no fsck. > > > > Not everyone is willing to spend a lot of time integrating a box when > > you can essentially buy an appliance off the shelf which does a better > > job. Are we going to start this whole discussion again? > > Yes, I agree, the FreeBSD box does a better job. Guys, take it to -chat > or -isp, where people either don't give a rip or don't give a rip, > respectively. > > Point for point, you can match Ciscos and FreeBSD boxes, it's simply a > matter of which colored glasses you put on. Louis will never admit that > a small amount of effort would yield a FreeBSD router that could > outperform a Cisco in terms of performance and reliability, and still > have no moving parts, because Louis is an "out of the box" bigot. Dennis > will take the opposing viewpoint.. > > So, puh-leeze, let's not get into this again... both sides are right, from > a certain point of view. > > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 09:41:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA24191 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (root@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24179 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA29085; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199608011639.JAA29085@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011516.KAA25748@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Aug 1, 96 10:16:31 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > >The 2503i is a mission critical version, it directly includes the software, > > > >which disables the serial port. You can later buy the full version ($1200 > > > >list price) to upgrade and use the serial ports. > > > > > > Does that include the (required) memory upgrade? > > > > > > So your talking $3000. for a box with 2 serial ports, an ISDN connection > > > and a '386-speed processor? Eeek! > > > > Two T1 ports, ISDN, support for T1 PPP, Cisco HDLC, Frame Relay and > > SMDS. Packet filtering. OSPF, RIP, RIP-2, EIGRP, BGP routing > > protocols (if you need them). Look at the 2524 which has provisions > > for integral 56K DDS or T1 CSU/DSUs to further reduce the system cost. > > > > Plus, you can plug it in and it works. No interrupt vectors, dma > > channels to fool with. Small package. Only a fan for moving parts, > > and no fsck. > > > > Not everyone is willing to spend a lot of time integrating a box when > > you can essentially buy an appliance off the shelf which does a better > > job. Are we going to start this whole discussion again? > > Yes, I agree, the FreeBSD box does a better job. Guys, take it to -chat > or -isp, where people either don't give a rip or don't give a rip, > respectively. > > Point for point, you can match Ciscos and FreeBSD boxes, it's simply a > matter of which colored glasses you put on. Louis will never admit that > a small amount of effort would yield a FreeBSD router that could > outperform a Cisco in terms of performance and reliability, and still > have no moving parts, because Louis is an "out of the box" bigot. Dennis > will take the opposing viewpoint.. > > So, puh-leeze, let's not get into this again... both sides are right, from > a certain point of view. > It might be true that a FreeBSD box can always outperform a Cisco 25xx, but it can never outperfom a system which does part of the routing on the interfaces itself, like Cisco does it on the 6 port Ethernet cards. Also it can't do that if you look at the speed of a PC bus. So, and to end the whole discussion: I really asked only for a price so I can compare if the 15% I got on the list price is good or not. I got yesterday a second quote whihc is 20% off list price. And now the reasons I want a Cisco: 1.) I like external boxes, because I play to much with my PC's ;-) 2.) I am sysadmin and want to get more into networking, all the companies I worked, are using Cisco. So I need to learn IOS. At the moment I always need the handbooks or the online documentation. And I like to know much ;-) 3.) At the same time I am buying this Cisco, I am building a FreeBSD box with 4 ethernet ports and 2 serial for WAN. So and now let's stop this thread and have fun :) Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 10:11:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25557 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25549 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20897; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:15:51 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:15:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199608011715.NAA20897@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Louis A. Mamakos" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >The 2503i is a mission critical version, it directly includes the software, >> >which disables the serial port. You can later buy the full version ($1200 >> >list price) to upgrade and use the serial ports. >> >> Does that include the (required) memory upgrade? >> >> So your talking $3000. for a box with 2 serial ports, an ISDN connection >> and a '386-speed processor? Eeek! > >Two T1 ports, ISDN, support for T1 PPP, Cisco HDLC, Frame Relay and >SMDS. Packet filtering. OSPF, RIP, RIP-2, EIGRP, BGP routing >protocols (if you need them). Look at the 2524 which has provisions >for integral 56K DDS or T1 CSU/DSUs to further reduce the system cost. > >Plus, you can plug it in and it works. No interrupt vectors, dma >channels to fool with. Small package. Only a fan for moving parts, >and no fsck. > >Not everyone is willing to spend a lot of time integrating a box when >you can essentially buy an appliance off the shelf which does a better >job. Are we going to start this whole discussion again? > "Better job?" Its still a pig....my comment is that its VERY expensive for what you get, and the guy was asking if it was a good price. Obviously anyone who can't build their own has to buy...I'm not arguing with that. But anyone who says that a unit that comes with 10,000 pages of documentation is a "plug it in and it works" unit doesnt remember the first time they got one and had to figure out how to configure it. Configuring a couple of subinterfaces for frame relay is a lot more complicated with a Cisco than with FreeBSD. The bottom line it that no matter what you get, it ain't that easy. There's no such thing as plug and play in this business. Check out www.etinc.com/routers.htm for an ironic perspective of the whole concept. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 10:22:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA26132 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tchnet.tchnet.com (tchnet.tchnet.com [198.109.196.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26124 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dashadow@localhost) by tchnet.tchnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA04979; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:22:42 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:22:42 -0400 (EDT) From: John Hart To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Software and Dial-Up Networking Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a few questions for those of you out there. We are currently selling Mosaic in a Box by Spry as our software, but are thinking of switching over to a new package, because Mosaic doesn't support nearly 1/2 of the features of Netscape, or IE. Just wondering what other people are using out there, and how much you are getting it for. I am looking to stay around the $10 / copy area, so our prices can stay as they are. Does anyone know of any good software or sources for software? Also, I have a lot of users logging in with Dial-up networking, and currently we have to have them bring up a terminal window after dialing so they can login manually and then hit F7 to continue. Anyone know how to change it so they don't have to do that? (I am not sure of the protocol that Windows uses to verify the user, PAP/CHAP?) How would I go about doing this, w/o loosing access for our shell users? John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Hart, System Administrator Technet Internet Services dashadow@tchnet.com (517)796-8200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 10:43:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA27469 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27464 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA26045; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:42:35 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199608011742.MAA26045@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking To: dashadow@tchnet.tchnet.com (John Hart) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:42:34 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John Hart" at Aug 1, 96 01:22:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a few questions for those of you out there. We are currently > selling Mosaic in a Box by Spry as our software, but are thinking of > switching over to a new package, because Mosaic doesn't support nearly > 1/2 of the features of Netscape, or IE. Just wondering what other people > are using out there, and how much you are getting it for. I am looking > to stay around the $10 / copy area, so our prices can stay as they are. > Does anyone know of any good software or sources for software? No idea. > Also, I have a lot of users logging in with Dial-up networking, and > currently we have to have them bring up a terminal window after dialing > so they can login manually and then hit F7 to continue. Anyone know how > to change it so they don't have to do that? (I am not sure of the > protocol that Windows uses to verify the user, PAP/CHAP?) How would I go > about doing this, w/o loosing access for our shell users? The mailing list archive is your friend :-) Look for "PAP" and "getty" under "freebsd-isp".. (There's a nice thread you might want to look for: Joe Greco Automatic PPP-detecting getty and pppd!!! which has probably just what you need). .... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 10:48:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA27757 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (root@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27749 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA29232; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:47:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199608011747.KAA29232@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011555.LAA20090@etinc.com> from Dennis at "Aug 1, 96 11:55:03 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, one more add from me. I calculated a 486 PC, maybe not the cheapest but modern. 486DX4-100 AMD $45 Motherboard with IDE and I/O $100 8 MB Simm $55 ATI PCI VGA $80 3.5" Floppy $30 500 MB HD $150 Case+powersupply $75 (man, these are expensive compared to .de) keyboard $18 Cogent PCI ethermet $80 ETinc 2 port serial $1095 Complete price = $1728 Cisco 2501 with IP feature set would cost me $1756 not much of a difference. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 11:11:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28983 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gbdata.com (GB2.Brewich.COM [207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28975 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA20580; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:11:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199608011811.NAA20580@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking To: dashadow@tchnet.tchnet.com (John Hart) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:11:06 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from John Hart at "Aug 1, 96 01:22:42 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Hart wrote: ---SNIP--- > Also, I have a lot of users logging in with Dial-up networking, and > currently we have to have them bring up a terminal window after dialing > so they can login manually and then hit F7 to continue. Anyone know how > to change it so they don't have to do that? (I am not sure of the > protocol that Windows uses to verify the user, PAP/CHAP?) How would I go > about doing this, w/o loosing access for our shell users? Hello, I belive Joe Greco had mentioned that he had a getty that would do PAP/CHAP auth. You out there Joe? > John Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 11:29:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29915 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29910 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA26170; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:26:50 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199608011826.NAA26170@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: ulf@lamb.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:26:50 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608011747.KAA29232@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> from "Ulf Zimmermann" at Aug 1, 96 10:47:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok, one more add from me. I calculated a 486 PC, maybe not the cheapest > but modern. It's the cheapest you can buy new.. :-) However some of your prices are perhaps out of line. Seeing as how I was just doing hardware cost calculations the other day I have some fresh good numbers.. > 486DX4-100 AMD $45 DX5/133, that price. ADZ. No fan or heatsink req'd, even. > Motherboard with IDE and I/O $100 > 8 MB Simm $55 Yep. > ATI PCI VGA $80 No way Jose! Cheapie ISA VGA, $28. > 3.5" Floppy $30 > 500 MB HD $150 Thereabouts. > Case+powersupply $75 (man, these are expensive compared to .de) What!? My _nice_ Enlight cases cost $65. I can get tin cans for $35. > keyboard $18 You don't need a dedicated keyboard. > Cogent PCI ethermet $80 Kingston PCI Ethernet $55 > ETinc 2 port serial $1095 There are cheaper options, particularly if you only need a single T1-capable sync serial. That's an advantage over the Cisco. > Complete price = $1728 I count $1593. I count $1093 if you just need a sync ISDN-capable port. > Cisco 2501 with IP feature set would cost me $1756 > > not much of a difference. Pricewise? You can argue it either way :-) Featurewise? Probably VERY similar, with gated and all.. Performancewise? I suspect the FreeBSD box is set to kick some butt. Expandability? I know I can get 100baseT on the PC for cheap. Or multi Ethernets. Out of the box usability? I suspect it may be a tossup once you dig through the Cisco manuals. You probably have to do less _physically_ to the Cisco - i.e. you don't have to assemble it (although I suspect Dennis provides pre-built FreeBSD routers). Serviceability? I can get PC parts locally. On weekends. At midnight, if need be. Support? FreeBSD has mailing lists. No guaranteed responses. Cisco has full time engineers that will come out on site if needed. Cisco is compact. FreeBSD has source. Cisco has "no" moving parts. (I'll grant that FreeBSD could be stuffed on a PCMCIA flash card). FreeBSD can crash. Oh, wait, I've seen a Cisco do that too. Umm It looks to me like it's the choice between a van and a pickup. Both are good for doing the moving. Each has specific advantages and disadvantages. I'm not arguing for or against either side, although I happen to think that FreeBSD has more advantages (at least that I can think of). ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 11:30:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29998 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29990 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA26181; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:28:49 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199608011828.NAA26181@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking To: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com (Gary Clark II) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:28:48 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dashadow@tchnet.tchnet.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011811.NAA20580@main.gbdata.com> from "Gary Clark II" at Aug 1, 96 01:11:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > John Hart wrote: > ---SNIP--- > > Also, I have a lot of users logging in with Dial-up networking, and > > currently we have to have them bring up a terminal window after dialing > > so they can login manually and then hit F7 to continue. Anyone know how > > to change it so they don't have to do that? (I am not sure of the > > protocol that Windows uses to verify the user, PAP/CHAP?) How would I go > > about doing this, w/o loosing access for our shell users? > Hello, > > I belive Joe Greco had mentioned that he had a getty that would do PAP/CHAP > auth. You out there Joe? Yes but at the last minute I suffered a terminal bout of laziness and referred him to the mailing list archive. :-) It seemed easier to have him dig up the instructions previously written (known to work)... since I don't have a nice, neat, package with instructions all written up... ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 11:46:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00893 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inetsrv.wtrt.net (inetsrv.wtrt.net [205.231.181.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00888 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allenh.wtrt.net (local2.wtrt.net [205.231.181.228]) by inetsrv.wtrt.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA20794 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:46:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199608011846.NAA20794@inetsrv.wtrt.net> From: "Allen Hyer" To: Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:47:36 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1132 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a few questions for those of you out there. We are currently > selling Mosaic in a Box by Spry as our software, but are thinking of > switching over to a new package, because Mosaic doesn't support nearly > 1/2 of the features of Netscape, or IE. Just wondering what other people > are using out there, and how much you are getting it for. I am looking > to stay around the $10 / copy area, so our prices can stay as they are. > Does anyone know of any good software or sources for software? > We used to use Spry as our Win3.x software also. We have started using Microsoft's Internet Explorer and dialer for Win3.x. Look on their Web site http://www.microsoft.com Get a copy and try it out. Seems to work well for us. > Also, I have a lot of users logging in with Dial-up networking, and > to change it so they don't have to do that? (I am not sure of the > protocol that Windows uses to verify the user, PAP/CHAP?) How would I go > about doing this, w/o loosing access for our shell users? Windows uses PAP to verify user name and password. On our terminal server (Xylogics Annex RA4000) we set the dial in lines to autodetect. It will look for a PPP connection and if it can't find one it will switch to text mode. I am sure you could do the same for whatever equipment you are using. > > John > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > John Hart, System Administrator Technet Internet Services > dashadow@tchnet.com (517)796-8200 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Allen Hyer, System Administrator West Texas Rural Telephone From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 11:48:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01039 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01029 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA21914; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:51:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:51:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199608011851.OAA21914@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Ulf Zimmermann From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Ok, one more add from me. I calculated a 486 PC, maybe not the cheapest >but modern. > >486DX4-100 AMD $45 >Motherboard with IDE and I/O $100 >8 MB Simm $55 >ATI PCI VGA $80 >3.5" Floppy $30 >500 MB HD $150 >Case+powersupply $75 (man, these are expensive compared to .de) >keyboard $18 >Cogent PCI ethermet $80 >ETinc 2 port serial $1095 > >Complete price = $1728 > >Cisco 2501 with IP feature set would cost me $1756 Your numbers are high (should be around $1600), but you're also getting a server for nothing that you can add an ethernet, or upgrade to 100Mbs, and it has 3 times the horsepower ........you'll also need the cisco mem upgrade to do anything useful...... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 11:51:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01266 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gbdata.com (GB2.Brewich.COM [207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01261 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA21199; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:49:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199608011849.NAA21199@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:49:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dashadow@tchnet.tchnet.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011828.NAA26181@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Aug 1, 96 01:28:48 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=text; x-action=sign Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Joe Greco wrote: > Yes but at the last minute I suffered a terminal bout of laziness and > referred him to the mailing list archive. :-) > > It seemed easier to have him dig up the instructions previously written > (known to work)... since I don't have a nice, neat, package with > instructions all written up... > > ... JG > Ok, I just don't remember seeing any reference of you releasing the code. I've got a friend of mine down here in TX that could use it. I'll go look again.:) Gary - -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMgD8BwiUiAbyRdGdAQGB5AP+M5z06uSc6/FNelw0/K/YwbMRQA7RYkri ah9tVcflLE0r/gv7PCsHCIL+zGI6DEo0D6JSPNKckTMXH8SOEtVOJCYBGkvSNLHb h13KvZRgEufJK3mI8Cy2+1HIYi4xIaAZprgKr20JmqenTK5mj1X2Ks1SfX7qALaW W7wZSduRAV0= =IAbj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 11:54:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01376 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01371 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29414; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:52:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199608011852.LAA29414@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011826.NAA26170@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Aug 1, 96 01:26:50 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, as my excuse :) I used web prices, mostly from neutronet.com(?) > > Ok, one more add from me. I calculated a 486 PC, maybe not the cheapest > > but modern. > > It's the cheapest you can buy new.. :-) > > However some of your prices are perhaps out of line. Seeing as how I > was just doing hardware cost calculations the other day I have some > fresh good numbers.. > > > 486DX4-100 AMD $45 > > DX5/133, that price. ADZ. No fan or heatsink req'd, even. Fine with me. > > > Motherboard with IDE and I/O $100 > > 8 MB Simm $55 > > Yep. > > > ATI PCI VGA $80 > > No way Jose! Cheapie ISA VGA, $28. > I don't like ISA cards, had to much problems with cards poping out of the slot. a cheap PCI might be around $50 or so. the ATI was the cheapest I found in that list I used. > > 3.5" Floppy $30 > > 500 MB HD $150 > > Thereabouts. > > > Case+powersupply $75 (man, these are expensive compared to .de) > > What!? My _nice_ Enlight cases cost $65. I can get tin cans for $35. The last cases I bought in .de (good cases) were around 70-80 DM. at that time $1 = 1.45 - 1.50 DM. > > > keyboard $18 > > You don't need a dedicated keyboard. I do. first reason, all my other systems are the small DIN connectors. Second if I need to unplug it from somewhere else, the keyrepeat rate is lost. I am just a believer in having a keyboard plugged in :) > > > Cogent PCI ethermet $80 > > Kingston PCI Ethernet $55 Ok, missed that one, $59 at neutronet. > > > ETinc 2 port serial $1095 > > There are cheaper options, particularly if you only need a single T1-capable > sync serial. That's an advantage over the Cisco. I wanted to compare simular configurations. So 1 Ethernet and 2 serial The ETinc has the plus of going up to 7 MBps on the prots, Cisco only 2 > > > Complete price = $1728 > > I count $1593. I count $1093 if you just need a sync ISDN-capable port. > > > Cisco 2501 with IP feature set would cost me $1756 > > > > not much of a difference. > > Pricewise? You can argue it either way :-) > > Featurewise? Probably VERY similar, with gated and all.. > > Performancewise? I suspect the FreeBSD box is set to kick some butt. > > Expandability? I know I can get 100baseT on the PC for cheap. Or multi > Ethernets. > > Out of the box usability? I suspect it may be a tossup once you dig through > the Cisco manuals. You probably have to do less _physically_ to the Cisco - > i.e. you don't have to assemble it (although I suspect Dennis provides > pre-built FreeBSD routers). > > Serviceability? I can get PC parts locally. On weekends. At midnight, if > need be. > > Support? FreeBSD has mailing lists. No guaranteed responses. Cisco has > full time engineers that will come out on site if needed. > > Cisco is compact. FreeBSD has source. Cisco has "no" moving parts. > (I'll grant that FreeBSD could be stuffed on a PCMCIA flash card). FreeBSD > can crash. Oh, wait, I've seen a Cisco do that too. Umm > > It looks to me like it's the choice between a van and a pickup. Both are > good for doing the moving. Each has specific advantages and disadvantages. > > I'm not arguing for or against either side, although I happen to think that > FreeBSD has more advantages (at least that I can think of). > > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 > Like I said, depending where I would put the system, enviroment, users, etc. I prefer sometimes a black box like a cisco. Also I am going to buy a Cisco because I need to get deeper into IOS,as the places I work use Cisco in larger numbers. But I will also build a FreeBSD box at the same time. One that out performs every Cisco in price/power. Or when can you get a cisco for under $2000 with 4 port Ethernet and 2 serial ports ;-) ULf. P.S.: I hate Agis, typing this message took > 20 minutes :( --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 12:21:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA02423 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02418 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14036; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:21:48 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:21:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Veggy Vinny To: Dennis cc: Ulf Zimmermann , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: <199608011851.OAA21914@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > Your numbers are high (should be around $1600), but you're also getting a > server for nothing that you can add an ethernet, or upgrade to 100Mbs, > and it has 3 times the horsepower > > ........you'll also need the cisco mem upgrade to do anything useful...... You can always get the Cisco 2501 on a PC Card with 4 megs of RAM for about $500 and just use any old 8088 PC since all it needs is the power from the slot... As you can program it via the Serial Port on the card... Vince From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 12:31:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA02698 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02692 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA01978; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:29:32 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608011929.MAA01978@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ulf@lamb.net, dennis@etinc.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011826.NAA26170@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Aug 1, 96 01:26:50 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Ok, one more add from me. I calculated a 486 PC, maybe not the cheapest > > but modern. > > It's the cheapest you can buy new.. :-) > > However some of your prices are perhaps out of line. Seeing as how I > was just doing hardware cost calculations the other day I have some > fresh good numbers.. ... > > Case+powersupply $75 (man, these are expensive compared to .de) > > What!? My _nice_ Enlight cases cost $65. I can get tin cans for $35. And the power supply in your Enlight cases has an MTBF of approx 5,000 hours, or about 6 months continous use. The one in the $35.00 tin cans are about the same. The failure mode is usually the fan bushing goes out (no one selling power supplies for <$40.00 uses a ball bearing fan.) You also appear to be buying at very very close to wholesale pricing... ... > > Cogent PCI ethermet $80 > > Kingston PCI Ethernet $55 I show that to be the wholesale price for the KNE40T (TP only), I can see $56.00 retail if you buy in 20 packs at a time. Rod... who's always wondering how these ``end users'' seem to come up with retail prices below wholesale... :-) :-) :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 12:36:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03006 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03001 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA22482; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:39:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:39:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199608011939.PAA22482@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Veggy Vinny From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > >> Your numbers are high (should be around $1600), but you're also getting a >> server for nothing that you can add an ethernet, or upgrade to 100Mbs, >> and it has 3 times the horsepower >> >> ........you'll also need the cisco mem upgrade to do anything useful...... > > You can always get the Cisco 2501 on a PC Card with 4 megs of RAM >for about $500 and just use any old 8088 PC since all it needs is the >power from the slot... As you can program it via the Serial Port on the >card... But the only thing good about a Cisco 2501 is its perceived reliability and "no moving parts". Their O/S isnt so great that I'd want to put it in a PC...you're much better off with unix in that case.... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 12:47:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03482 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03477 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA22656; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:51:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:51:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199608011951.PAA22656@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Rodney W. Grimes" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Case+powersupply $75 (man, these are expensive compared to .de) >> >> What!? My _nice_ Enlight cases cost $65. I can get tin cans for $35. > >And the power supply in your Enlight cases has an MTBF of approx 5,000 >hours, or about 6 months continous use. The one in the $35.00 tin cans >are about the same. The failure mode is usually the fan bushing goes >out (no one selling power supplies for <$40.00 uses a ball bearing fan.) I'll bet there is..don't know who though :-) Does a 2501 have a ball-bearing fan? Given the taiwanese supplies have cheap fans....but it only takes about 5 minutes to swap them out once a year or so... I get dual-fan units for $70........Q1, off the shelf. > >You also appear to be buying at very very close to wholesale pricing... > So is the rest of the world. His prices are available at the corner store here......Anyone with an EIN can easily get those prices..... We sell complete FreeBSD systems (with dual port cards and dual fans) for less than the number Ulf quoted...... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 13:05:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA04738 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (root@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04723 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA29634; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:03:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199608012003.NAA29634@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Veggy Vinny at "Aug 1, 96 12:21:47 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > > > Your numbers are high (should be around $1600), but you're also getting a > > server for nothing that you can add an ethernet, or upgrade to 100Mbs, > > and it has 3 times the horsepower > > > > ........you'll also need the cisco mem upgrade to do anything useful...... > > You can always get the Cisco 2501 on a PC Card with 4 megs of RAM > for about $500 and just use any old 8088 PC since all it needs is the > power from the slot... As you can program it via the Serial Port on the > card... > > Vince > > > Not completly true. The AP-EC (1 sync serial, 1 Ethernet, 1 async port for config and com port emulation) is list price $695. You need the software for it too, which is $1000 list price. or the AP-EBC card which uses 2 ISA slots and has 1 sync serial and 1 ISDN BRI extra for a list of $1195 plus software again. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 13:06:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA04815 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.trifecta.com (www.trifecta.com [206.245.150.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04809 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dev@localhost) by www.trifecta.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA20738; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:06:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Dev Chanchani To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD 2.1-R -> 2.1.5-R Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to upgrade from FreeBSD 2.1 release to 2.1.5-release. I compiled and installed gcc 2.7.2 and I am getting the following error during a make world. /usr/src/gnu/lib/libg++/include/streambuf.h: In method `void ios::init(struct streambuf *, class ostream *)': In file included from /usr/src/gnu/lib/libg++/include/iostream.h:31, from /usr/src/gnu/lib/libg++/include/stream.h:31, from /usr/src/gnu/lib/libg++/libg++/DLList.cc:24: /usr/src/gnu/lib/libg++/include/streambuf.h:447: warning: `void ios::init(struct streambug *, class ostream *)' was used before it was declared inline /usr/src/gnu/lib/libg++/include/streambuf.h:251: warning: previous non-inline declaration here /var/tmp/cc020703.s: Assembler messages: /var/tmp/cc020703.s:829: Error: Unknow pseudo-op: `.weak' *** Error code 1 any ideas?? Dev From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 13:13:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05394 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05384 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA18800; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:13:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:13:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Veggy Vinny To: Dennis cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: <199608011939.PAA22482@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > >On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > > > >> Your numbers are high (should be around $1600), but you're also getting a > >> server for nothing that you can add an ethernet, or upgrade to 100Mbs, > >> and it has 3 times the horsepower > >> > >> ........you'll also need the cisco mem upgrade to do anything useful...... > > > > You can always get the Cisco 2501 on a PC Card with 4 megs of RAM > >for about $500 and just use any old 8088 PC since all it needs is the > >power from the slot... As you can program it via the Serial Port on the > >card... > > But the only thing good about a Cisco 2501 is its perceived reliability and "no > moving parts". Their O/S isnt so great that I'd want to put it in a > PC...you're much > better off with unix in that case.... Well, you don't really need Unix or anything since it's the cheapest solution possible... You can do it with Unix but you still need a router card I think... Vince From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 13:16:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05547 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05542 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA19045; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:16:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:16:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Veggy Vinny To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: <199608012003.NAA29634@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > > > > > Your numbers are high (should be around $1600), but you're also getting a > > > server for nothing that you can add an ethernet, or upgrade to 100Mbs, > > > and it has 3 times the horsepower > > > > > > ........you'll also need the cisco mem upgrade to do anything useful...... > > > > You can always get the Cisco 2501 on a PC Card with 4 megs of RAM > > for about $500 and just use any old 8088 PC since all it needs is the > > power from the slot... As you can program it via the Serial Port on the > > card... > > > Not completly true. The AP-EC (1 sync serial, 1 Ethernet, 1 async port for > config and com port emulation) is list price $695. You need the software > for it too, which is $1000 list price. or the AP-EBC card which uses > 2 ISA slots and has 1 sync serial and 1 ISDN BRI extra for a list of $1195 > plus software again. I think that's only if you buy retail... We get it through Pacific Bell's CalREN (California Research and Education Network) for $450 with the Cisco Software revision 10.2 and the 4 megs of RAM... Vince From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 13:43:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA24148 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24082 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA23458; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:46:50 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:46:50 -0400 Message-Id: <199608012046.QAA23458@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Rodney W. Grimes" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I show that to be the wholesale price for the KNE40T (TP only), I >can see $56.00 retail if you buy in 20 packs at a time. > How can a 20-pack be retail? whats the definition of wholesale these days? I pay the same for 1 as I pay for 50. (maybe I get a dollar). there is no "wholesale" in the PC parts business if you know where to go. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 13:44:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA24961 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA24936 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA26468; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:40:39 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199608012040.PAA26468@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:40:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, ulf@lamb.net, dennis@etinc.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011929.MAA01978@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 1, 96 12:29:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What!? My _nice_ Enlight cases cost $65. I can get tin cans for $35. > > And the power supply in your Enlight cases has an MTBF of approx 5,000 > hours, or about 6 months continous use. The one in the $35.00 tin cans > are about the same. The failure mode is usually the fan bushing goes > out (no one selling power supplies for <$40.00 uses a ball bearing fan.) Actually the supplier apparently buys the PS's separately ... And I haven't had a fan die on a dozen of these in a year. Small sample size, I know. Incidental: I do believe in installing the second fan kits. :-) However, if you have a source for ball bearing fans of the right size, I would gladly be installing them. > You also appear to be buying at very very close to wholesale pricing... Yeaaaaah, so? Any ISP with a quarter of a brain can strike an attractive deal with a PC shop to knock 5% off the current street price (and street price != != != MSRP!! Don't try to tell me that most places try to sell for the MSRP because I'd have to tell you you're wrong). In reality it's easy to find a PC shop that has street prices 10% higher than Merisel or Ingram. > ... > > > Cogent PCI ethermet $80 > > > > Kingston PCI Ethernet $55 > > I show that to be the wholesale price for the KNE40T (TP only), I > can see $56.00 retail if you buy in 20 packs at a time. > > Rod... who's always wondering how these ``end users'' seem to come up > with retail prices below wholesale... :-) :-) :-) Well, Rod... in my opinion, it's because a larger shop can get by on smaller margins. I am guessing that you are a relatively small shop and your customers buy from you at a higher price because they get your fantastic service and wealth of knowledge to back up what you're selling. That has a definite, absolute value. :-) That's why I send folks to you as often as I can. However.. The corner PC shop (that I avoid like the plague) here hires 17 year old kids to put together PC's, and will buy cards at quantity discount and pass the savings on to the customer. They would be buying your KNE40T's in lots of 100 and selling them at $54.00 retail each probably. Of course you get what you pay for: endless grief if you need to RMA something, and incompetence if you let them build your PC. And they have no clue that the KNE40T is based on a DEC21040, whereas you could probably write a device driver for one if you wanted to. Please remember that I am not saying ANYTHING bad about smaller shops who sell for a higher price because I am a firm believer that there is value to be had in it. However, when comparing a FreeBSD to a discounted Cisco, I'm certainly not going to compare premium PC prices to a discounted Cisco price. Got a source for BB fans, PC sized? Thanks, ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 13:46:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA26686 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26607 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA23522; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:50:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:50:45 -0400 Message-Id: <199608012050.QAA23522@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Veggy Vinny From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > >> >On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: >> > >> >> Your numbers are high (should be around $1600), but you're also getting a >> >> server for nothing that you can add an ethernet, or upgrade to 100Mbs, >> >> and it has 3 times the horsepower >> >> >> >> ........you'll also need the cisco mem upgrade to do anything useful...... >> > >> > You can always get the Cisco 2501 on a PC Card with 4 megs of RAM >> >for about $500 and just use any old 8088 PC since all it needs is the >> >power from the slot... As you can program it via the Serial Port on the >> >card... >> >> But the only thing good about a Cisco 2501 is its perceived reliability and "no >> moving parts". Their O/S isnt so great that I'd want to put it in a >> PC...you're much >> better off with unix in that case.... > > Well, you don't really need Unix or anything since it's the >cheapest solution possible... You can do it with Unix but you still need a >router card I think... you think? Dennis :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 14:23:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA29856 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29826 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA02258; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:22:21 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608012122.OAA02258@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608012046.QAA23458@etinc.com> from Dennis at "Aug 1, 96 04:46:50 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >I show that to be the wholesale price for the KNE40T (TP only), I > >can see $56.00 retail if you buy in 20 packs at a time. > > > How can a 20-pack be retail? It is ``retail'' if you are the end user purchaser, ie, if your not buying the product to resell it to some one else that would qualify as a retail sale. If sales taxes applies in the state then either sales taxes has to be collected, or use tax payed at the end of the year by the end user, that would be retail. > whats the definition of wholesale these days? Purchases from manufacturer or distributor and sold to resellers/VAR's/etc. Most distributors will not even talk to you unless your in the business of reselling and can produce a state resellers license. Large corporations tend to bend these rules pretty badly, they are not in the business of reselling computers, but because the do other forms of ``reselling'' they slip it past the wholesaler, and often even lie on the account application. Manufactures won't deal with you unless you can promise them millions of dollars in annual purchases (ASUS won't sell me motherboards unless I buy 500 of them/month, Miro won't sell me video cards unless I buy them 520 at a time, etc, etc.) There are like 5 or 6 offical ``wholesalers/distributors'' of Quantum disks, anyone else is either buying back door units from an OEM who has an overrun (known as the ``grey market''), or they are buying them from these 5 or 6 places. > I pay the same for 1 as I pay for 50. (maybe I get a dollar). > there is no "wholesale" in the PC parts business if you know where to go. That statement is incorrect. I'll tell you where to go, go try to buy motherboards from ASUS, or CPU chips from Intel/Wyle/Hamilton Avenet, they won't even deal with you unless you want to buy 500 to 1000 of them. THATS wholesale buying. Sure ASI and Supercom and all the other distributors will sell you 1 or 50 at the same price, and I'll beat you that price is more than I or any other ``real'' PC reseller pays for the same product from the same source, unless your buying quantity day in and day out you won't ever see real wholesale pricing. If your not getting price breaks at qty 50, your not negotiating prices very well. On the KNE50T for example, qty one cost for me would be $55.00, if I buy 20 of them it would be $47.00, a wee bit more than your ``dollar''. If I where reselling these to you the price delta would be similiar, I pass on my volume purchase savings to my clients just like everyone else does. > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 14:42:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA01214 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01206 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA28448; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:42:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Veggy Vinny To: Dennis cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: <199608012050.QAA23522@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > > Well, you don't really need Unix or anything since it's the > >cheapest solution possible... You can do it with Unix but you still need a > >router card I think... > > you think? Well, another way is to simply use a FreeBSD box with some Ethernet card and then buy a hub and a CSU/DSU separately... Vince From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 15:17:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA03126 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03117 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA24849; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:21:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:21:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199608012221.SAA24849@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Rodney W. Grimes" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk R. Grimes writes... >> whats the definition of wholesale these days? > >Purchases from manufacturer or distributor and sold to resellers/VAR's/etc. > >Most distributors will not even talk to you unless your in the business >of reselling and can produce a state resellers license. Large corporations >tend to bend these rules pretty badly, they are not in the business of >reselling computers, but because the do other forms of ``reselling'' they >slip it past the wholesaler, and often even lie on the account application. Filing a "blanket" is not a lie....but if you buy from out of state you don't pay sales tax anyway. But in the big picture, sales tax isnt the issue at all. As you probably know its illegal in the US to sell non-FCC systems.....the reason that you must certify that you are a "reseller" is that if you're an end user you cant buy parts and build systems legally. The "wholesalers" really couldn't give a hoot if you're reselling it or not. Its kind of a joke, but many parts resellers aren't willing to take the chance. As for sales tax, if you file the form then its your problem, not theirs. They dont care at all. > >Manufactures won't deal with you unless you can promise them millions of >dollars in annual purchases (ASUS won't sell me motherboards unless I buy 500 >of them/month, Miro won't sell me video cards unless I buy them 520 at >a time, etc, etc.) Who cares, when many bonafide resellers are working on <5% margins, Q1? >> I pay the same for 1 as I pay for 50. (maybe I get a dollar). >> there is no "wholesale" in the PC parts business if you know where to go. > >That statement is incorrect. I'll tell you where to go, go try to buy >motherboards from ASUS, or CPU chips from Intel/Wyle/Hamilton Avenet, >they won't even deal with you unless you want to buy 500 to 1000 of them. >THATS wholesale buying. [...] >If your not getting price breaks at qty 50, your not negotiating prices >very well. On the KNE50T for example, qty one cost for me would be $55.00, >if I buy 20 of them it would be $47.00, a wee bit more than your ``dollar''. >If I where reselling these to you the price delta would be similiar, I pass >on my volume purchase savings to my clients just like everyone else does. You got it backwards Rod. I tell them that if i don't get the Q50 price on Q1 I'm going elsewhere. You're the one whos the lousy negotiator :-) db PS: didnt you say (about an hour ago) that a Q20 price for the KNE50T is $55? Now its $47? We get (SMC clone) PCI combo cards for $54. Q1, $53. for Q3 or more. Resellers only! :-) From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 15:18:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA03198 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03193 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA24869 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:23:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:23:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199608012223.SAA24869@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > >> > Well, you don't really need Unix or anything since it's the >> >cheapest solution possible... You can do it with Unix but you still need a >> >router card I think... >> >> you think? > > Well, another way is to simply use a FreeBSD box with some >Ethernet card and then buy a hub and a CSU/DSU separately... > >Vince Vince doesn't know me, does he? :-) Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 15:20:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA03283 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (root@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA03278 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA29988; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:19:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199608012219.PAA29988@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608012122.OAA02258@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at "Aug 1, 96 02:22:21 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > >I show that to be the wholesale price for the KNE40T (TP only), I > > >can see $56.00 retail if you buy in 20 packs at a time. > > > > > How can a 20-pack be retail? > > It is ``retail'' if you are the end user purchaser, ie, if your not buying > the product to resell it to some one else that would qualify as a retail > sale. > > If sales taxes applies in the state then either sales taxes has to be > collected, or use tax payed at the end of the year by the end user, > that would be retail. > > > whats the definition of wholesale these days? > > Purchases from manufacturer or distributor and sold to resellers/VAR's/etc. > > Most distributors will not even talk to you unless your in the business > of reselling and can produce a state resellers license. Large corporations > tend to bend these rules pretty badly, they are not in the business of > reselling computers, but because the do other forms of ``reselling'' they > slip it past the wholesaler, and often even lie on the account application. > > Manufactures won't deal with you unless you can promise them millions of > dollars in annual purchases (ASUS won't sell me motherboards unless I buy 500 > of them/month, Miro won't sell me video cards unless I buy them 520 at > a time, etc, etc.) > > There are like 5 or 6 offical ``wholesalers/distributors'' of Quantum disks, > anyone else is either buying back door units from an OEM who has an overrun > (known as the ``grey market''), or they are buying them from these 5 or 6 > places. > > > I pay the same for 1 as I pay for 50. (maybe I get a dollar). > > there is no "wholesale" in the PC parts business if you know where to go. > > That statement is incorrect. I'll tell you where to go, go try to buy > motherboards from ASUS, or CPU chips from Intel/Wyle/Hamilton Avenet, > they won't even deal with you unless you want to buy 500 to 1000 of them. > THATS wholesale buying. > > Sure ASI and Supercom and all the other distributors will sell you 1 or > 50 at the same price, and I'll beat you that price is more than I or any > other ``real'' PC reseller pays for the same product from the same source, > unless your buying quantity day in and day out you won't ever see real > wholesale pricing. > > If your not getting price breaks at qty 50, your not negotiating prices > very well. On the KNE50T for example, qty one cost for me would be $55.00, > if I buy 20 of them it would be $47.00, a wee bit more than your ``dollar''. > If I where reselling these to you the price delta would be similiar, I pass > on my volume purchase savings to my clients just like everyone else does. > > > Dennis > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > > and LINUX > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > A difference btw. the single card retail box and a 5/6/20/50/100 box is, you get often only 1 handbook, 1 driver disk, 1 warrenty card with the larger quantity boxes. etc. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 15:50:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA04543 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA04538 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caught.inna.net (tom@caught.inna.net [206.151.66.7]) by tyger.inna.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16672; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:51:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Arnold To: John Hart cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, John Hart wrote: > I have a few questions for those of you out there. We are currently > selling Mosaic in a Box by Spry as our software, but are thinking of > switching over to a new package, because Mosaic doesn't support nearly > 1/2 of the features of Netscape, or IE. Just wondering what other people > are using out there, and how much you are getting it for. I am looking > to stay around the $10 / copy area, so our prices can stay as they are. > Does anyone know of any good software or sources for software? Well... if you dont mind selling your soul to Satan, ur, I mean Bill Gates, look into Internet Explorer. Once you sign up, you can distribute the Win3.1 and Win95 versions for -Free- all you gotta do is make the disks. +-----------------------------------------------+ : Tom Arnold - No relation to Rosanne : : SysAdmin/Pres - TBI, Ltd ( inna.net ) : : An ISP serving the Virginia Middle Peninsula : +-----------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 16:01:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04946 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04940 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caught.inna.net (tom@caught.inna.net [206.151.66.7]) by tyger.inna.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17136; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:00:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Arnold To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Joe Greco , ulf@Lamb.net, dennis@etinc.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: <199608011929.MAA01978@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > Case+powersupply $75 (man, these are expensive compared to .de) > > > > What!? My _nice_ Enlight cases cost $65. I can get tin cans for $35. > > And the power supply in your Enlight cases has an MTBF of approx 5,000 > hours, or about 6 months continous use. The one in the $35.00 tin cans > are about the same. The failure mode is usually the fan bushing goes > out (no one selling power supplies for <$40.00 uses a ball bearing fan.) I've seen then VERY often from people. The Enlight cases use Ball Bearing fans, but ALSO, you can buy Ball Bearing fans for around $5.00 at shows and take the 5 minutes to swap them out. I got cases for my BSD boxes from a company called American ProImage. They were REAL expensive ( $165 each ) but have swing-open doors, slide out drive cages, and 300watt MilSpec power supplies that are chunkier then in a Sun. Anyone prices a replacement cooling fan from Cisco for a 3000 series ( $200+ ) or 2501 series ( $75+ ). Of course, at least in the case of the 3000 series you can get a generic replacement ( same manufacturer but without Cisco plug ) for $29. +-----------------------------------------------+ : Tom Arnold - No relation to Rosanne : : SysAdmin/Pres - TBI, Ltd ( inna.net ) : : An ISP serving the Virginia Middle Peninsula : +-----------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 16:23:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05511 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05506 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA11750; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:24:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:24:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Veggy Vinny To: Dennis cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price In-Reply-To: <199608012223.SAA24869@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > >On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Dennis wrote: > > > >> > Well, you don't really need Unix or anything since it's the > >> >cheapest solution possible... You can do it with Unix but you still need a > >> >router card I think... > >> > >> you think? > > > > Well, another way is to simply use a FreeBSD box with some > >Ethernet card and then buy a hub and a CSU/DSU separately... > > > >Vince > > Vince doesn't know me, does he? :-) Hehehe, I just realized that after I wrote it... You're the guys that do the router cards! :-) Vince From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 18:12:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09437 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.asiapac.net (gandalf.asiapac.net [202.188.0.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09422 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnc0184.asiapac.net (tnc0184.asiapac.net [202.188.0.184]) by gandalf.asiapac.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA10587; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:55:19 +0800 Message-Id: <199608020055.IAA10587@gandalf.asiapac.net> X-Sender: sckhoo@mail.asiapac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 09:05:49 -0800 To: Global Internet Shopping Mall From: Khoo Swee Chuan Subject: Re: number of servers Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:28 AM 8/1/96 -0500, you wrote: >I'm using internal card by Riscom n2csu which has T1 csu/dsu/router built >on, and Cyclades 16 port serials. They are both in a single BSDi box which >does everything. I would like to separate the server functions using since we are in this subject, i have a customer asking for isdn dialup with livingston isdn card, is the driver available in freebsd (2.1.5)? +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Khoo Swee Chuan ( The Network Connections ) - system administrator | | http://www.asiapac.net/~sckhoo/ sckhoo@asiapac.net | | tel:603-7337757 fax:603-7345577 #include | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Live long and prosper" - "Be well and Happy" From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 20:00:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA14296 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14291 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0umARc-0008umC; Thu, 1 Aug 96 19:58 PDT Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: number of servers To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: gism@isot.isot.com, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608011458.JAA25681@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Aug 1, 96 09:58:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > advertise that your Web server has a bunch of dirty pix (and your Web server > DIES), you're still marginally OK. If you have a T1 connection to the Net and traffic can kill your web server, you should be running FreeBSD on it instead of Windows 3.1... (though you might want to have a lot of swap space handy for all the processes waiting for net i/o to complete). Sorry, couldn't resist... -- Alan Batie ______ We're Starfleet officers: batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Weird is part of the job. +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Captain Janeway DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 20:32:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA15500 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.asiapac.net (gandalf.asiapac.net [202.188.0.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA15495 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnc1123.asiapac.net (tnc1123.asiapac.net [202.188.1.123]) by gandalf.asiapac.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA15510; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:15:51 +0800 Message-Id: <199608020315.LAA15510@gandalf.asiapac.net> X-Sender: sckhoo@mail.asiapac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:26:22 -0800 To: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) From: Khoo Swee Chuan Subject: Re: number of servers Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 07:58 PM 8/1/96 -0700, you wrote: >If you have a T1 connection to the Net and traffic can kill your web server, >you should be running FreeBSD on it instead of Windows 3.1... (though you >might want to have a lot of swap space handy for all the processes waiting >for net i/o to complete). > >Sorry, couldn't resist... > don't have to apologize, running a web server in Win3.11 is asking for trouble. Not even NT for that matter. FreeBSD and Apache is a perfect combination. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Khoo Swee Chuan ( The Network Connections ) - system administrator | | http://www.asiapac.net/~sckhoo/ sckhoo@asiapac.net | | tel:603-7337757 fax:603-7345577 #include | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Live long and prosper" - "Be well and Happy" From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 1 20:44:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA15953 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA15939 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id WAA26820; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:43:23 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199608020343.WAA26820@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: number of servers To: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:43:23 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gism@isot.isot.com, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Alan Batie" at Aug 1, 96 07:58:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > advertise that your Web server has a bunch of dirty pix (and your Web server > > DIES), you're still marginally OK. > > If you have a T1 connection to the Net and traffic can kill your web server, > you should be running FreeBSD on it instead of Windows 3.1... (though you > might want to have a lot of swap space handy for all the processes waiting > for net i/o to complete). > > Sorry, couldn't resist... I have a Web server, I'm T1 connected, and I run FreeBSD. :-) On the other hand, the box was spec'd out to handle a low to moderate level of traffic, and I contend that it would be easy to take it out with some foolish stunt as described above. Unfortunately the general horny public does not care whether _you_ advertise it or someone _else_ advertises it - they'll melt your box anyways. Me, I'm still waiting for it to happen, but I find consolation in the fact that when it happens, it won't kill any of my other services. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 2 07:09:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA08800 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unix1.ism.com.br (root@unix1.ism.com.br [200.255.211.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA08795 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clpc1.compuland.com.br (clpc1.compuland.com.br [200.255.96.22]) by unix1.ism.com.br (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA03502; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:09:04 -0300 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:09:04 -0300 Message-Id: <199608021409.LAA03502@unix1.ism.com.br> X-Sender: compland@ism.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Hart From: compland@ism.com.br (Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica) Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I have a few questions for those of you out there. We are currently >selling Mosaic in a Box by Spry as our software, but are thinking of >switching over to a new package, because Mosaic doesn't support nearly >1/2 of the features of Netscape, or IE. Just wondering what other people >are using out there, and how much you are getting it for. I am looking >to stay around the $10 / copy area, so our prices can stay as they are. >Does anyone know of any good software or sources for software? I would like to find out a good package also. How much cost to you that Mosaic package ? I need a package that could detect both Win3.1 and Win95 and install properly (it's like a dream!). > >Also, I have a lot of users logging in with Dial-up networking, and >currently we have to have them bring up a terminal window after dialing >so they can login manually and then hit F7 to continue. Go in the properties of the dial-up icon you create. Click in configure, just under the modem name. Go in options and DO NOT mark the settings: "Show a terminal window before dialling" and "Show a terminal window after dialling" . This will solve the problem. Regards, Helio. Anyone know how >to change it so they don't have to do that? (I am not sure of the >protocol that Windows uses to verify the user, PAP/CHAP?) How would I go >about doing this, w/o loosing access for our shell users? > >John >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >John Hart, System Administrator Technet Internet Services >dashadow@tchnet.com (517)796-8200 >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 2 08:57:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA14211 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14203 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01134; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:01:37 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:01:37 -0400 Message-Id: <199608021601.MAA01134@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Rodney W. Grimes" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> >I show that to be the wholesale price for the KNE40T (TP only), I >> >can see $56.00 retail if you buy in 20 packs at a time. >> > >> How can a 20-pack be retail? > >It is ``retail'' if you are the end user purchaser, ie, if your not buying >the product to resell it to some one else that would qualify as a retail >sale. "Wholesale" means "in quantity"...not "for resale". There is no distinction (nor should there be) between "for resale" or for an end-user. A 20 pack is wholesale, by definition. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 2 09:54:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA16148 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16139 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA03025; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:54:12 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608021654.JAA03025@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199608021601.MAA01134@etinc.com> from Dennis at "Aug 2, 96 12:01:37 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> > >> >I show that to be the wholesale price for the KNE40T (TP only), I > >> >can see $56.00 retail if you buy in 20 packs at a time. > >> > > >> How can a 20-pack be retail? > > > >It is ``retail'' if you are the end user purchaser, ie, if your not buying > >the product to resell it to some one else that would qualify as a retail > >sale. > > "Wholesale" means "in quantity"...not "for resale". There is no distinction > (nor should there be) between "for resale" or for an end-user. > > A 20 pack is wholesale, by definition. This discussion has gotten way way off topic for this list... I don't really care to discuss what some think is wholesale and what some think is retail, there are laws that clearly define these things... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 2 09:54:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA16172 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from radio.nwpros.com (nwpros.com [205.229.128.214]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16165 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rickbox.nwpros.com (rickbox.nwpros.com [205.229.128.217]) by radio.nwpros.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA15209 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:59:38 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960802170412.00686674@nwpros.com> X-Sender: rickg@nwpros.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 12:04:12 -0500 To: isp@freebsd.org From: Rick Gray Subject: Quotas Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have recently enabled quotas on FBSD 2.1R. When I go in to create a quota for a user and then go back to look at the user's quota with a -u it shows none. Any one have any clues? I am using NFS also if this makes a difference.... Thanks in advance. ************************************************ Rick Gray Director of Internet Services Network Pros, Inc. rickg@nwpros.com (713)780-5900 "It is a good day to die." ----Klingon Philosophy ************************************************ From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 2 12:02:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA23080 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.continet.com ([205.199.35.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA23075 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Default ([205.199.35.67]) by falcon.continet.com (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-10248) with SMTP id AAA245 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:11:57 -0700 X-Sender: blackened@continet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: David Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:11:57 -0700 Message-ID: <19960802191156596.AAA245@Default> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk subscribe From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 2 12:32:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA24687 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24678 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04021 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:36:29 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:36:29 -0400 Message-Id: <199608021936.PAA04021@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: Question about Cisco 2503i price Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> "Wholesale" means "in quantity"...not "for resale". There is no distinction >> (nor should there be) between "for resale" or for an end-user. >> >> A 20 pack is wholesale, by definition. > >This discussion has gotten way way off topic for this list... I don't really >care to discuss what some think is wholesale and what some think is retail, >there are laws that clearly define these things... Just get a dictionary Rod...its pretty easy. db From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 2 16:50:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA10974 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitbucket.edmweb.com (bitbucket.edmweb.com [204.244.190.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10962 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by bitbucket.edmweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00347; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:49:52 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:49:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Reid To: Thomas Arnold cc: John Hart , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well... if you dont mind selling your soul to Satan, ur, I mean Bill > Gates, look into Internet Explorer. Once you sign up, you can distribute > the Win3.1 and Win95 versions for -Free- all you gotta do is make the > disks. No, That's not all ya gotta do. From the licensing agreement at http://www.microsoft.com/ie/ieak/iedist.htm, near the bottom.... EXHIBIT A TO THE LICENSE AND DISTRIBUTION AGREEMENT COMPANY Obligations 1. Within thirty (30) days following distribution of COMPANY's Internet Product, COMPANY agrees to deploy the advanced features of MS' Internet Explorer HTML extensions in the design of COMPANY's home page. There's more, but that's the most interesting obligation. They want to tell you how do design your web pages. Fortunately, either party (including you) can opt out of the deal at a later time, and it won't affect the users who already have the software. ===================================================================== | Steve Reid - SysAdmin & Pres, EDM Web (http://www.edmweb.com/) | | Email: steve@edmweb.com Home Page: http://www.edmweb.com/steve/ | | PGP (2048/9F317269) Fingerprint: 11C89D1CD67287E68C09EC52443F8830 | | -- Disclaimer: JMHO, YMMV, TANSTAAFL, IANAL. -- | ===================================================================:) From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 2 17:09:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA11807 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linkou.trace.com.tw (ronald@[192.72.68.166]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11802 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ronald@localhost) by linkou.trace.com.tw (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA04335; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:09:23 +0800 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:09:23 +0800 (CCT) From: Ronald Wiplinger To: Steve Reid cc: Thomas Arnold , John Hart , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Software and Dial-Up Networking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, Steve Reid wrote: > > Well... if you dont mind selling your soul to Satan, ur, I mean Bill > > Gates, look into Internet Explorer. Once you sign up, you can distribute > > the Win3.1 and Win95 versions for -Free- all you gotta do is make the > > disks. > > No, That's not all ya gotta do. From the licensing agreement at > http://www.microsoft.com/ie/ieak/iedist.htm, near the bottom.... > > EXHIBIT A TO THE LICENSE AND DISTRIBUTION AGREEMENT > > COMPANY Obligations > > 1. Within thirty (30) days following distribution of COMPANY's > Internet Product, COMPANY agrees to deploy the advanced features of > MS' Internet Explorer HTML extensions in the design of COMPANY's home > page. Well, to put their logo on this page is defacto an implement of the advanced feature. They do not say how many feature you need to use ;-) > > There's more, but that's the most interesting obligation. They want to > tell you how do design your web pages. Hmm, that not even my wife could do. I doubt that MS can do that. > > Fortunately, either party (including you) can opt out of the deal at a > later time, and it won't affect the users who already have the software. > From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 3 00:38:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA08059 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 00:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyburbia.net.au (cyburbia.bns.com.au [203.19.43.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08049 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 00:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cyburbia.net.au (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA09290 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:07:43 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:07:43 +0930 (CST) From: Justin Viiret X-Sender: justin@cyburbia To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: AutoPPP with mgetty and pppd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk G'day everyone... Seems like I've been trying to do this for ages now ;) I'm trying to get the AutoPPP features of mgetty to dump a user into pppd with PAP authentication based on the /etc/passwd file. I've got that much working - everything's fine. The only difficulty now is that when a user's logged on via AutoPPP, he's logged in the wtmp file (there's an entry for his username when I type 'last'), but he doesn't appear to be being logged in utmp - so the 'w' or 'finger' commands don't show him. This makes things rather difficult for user tracking. ;) Has anyone managed to get pppd to log the user in both the utmp and the wtmp files? I'm running stock FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE. Thanks, Justin. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Justin Viiret Cyburbia Network Services justin@cyburbia.net.au Co-sysadmin and busy guy http://cyburbia.net.au/~justin/ Voice: 08-379-2492 -------------------[Relax, they're only ones and zeroes]--------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 3 08:36:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA16603 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA16594 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA28339; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:34:15 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199608031534.KAA28339@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: AutoPPP with mgetty and pppd To: justin@cyburbia.net.au (Justin Viiret) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:34:15 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Justin Viiret" at Aug 3, 96 05:07:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > G'day everyone... > > Seems like I've been trying to do this for ages now ;) I'm trying to get > the AutoPPP features of mgetty to dump a user into pppd with PAP > authentication based on the /etc/passwd file. I've got that much working - > everything's fine. The only difficulty now is that when a user's logged on > via AutoPPP, he's logged in the wtmp file (there's an entry for his > username when I type 'last'), but he doesn't appear to be being logged in > utmp - so the 'w' or 'finger' commands don't show him. This makes things > rather difficult for user tracking. ;) > > Has anyone managed to get pppd to log the user in both the utmp and the > wtmp files? > > I'm running stock FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE. If you don't have your heart set on using mgetty - consider trying the PPP-enabled getty and pppd that I hacked together a month or two ago. Check the mailing list archives of -isp for a message containing (PPP and PAP and getty). I posted a detailed set of instructions at the time.. It is alpha-release code but it appears to work just fine. Once I get a few minutes to spare I'll write up some nice docs to go with it, and see if we can't get it committed to the current source tree. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 3 17:21:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA29167 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unix1.ism.com.br (unix1.ism.com.br [200.255.211.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29153 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clpc1.compuland.com.br (clpc1.compuland.com.br [200.255.96.22]) by unix1.ism.com.br (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA05238 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:20:42 -0300 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:20:42 -0300 Message-Id: <199608040020.VAA05238@unix1.ism.com.br> X-Sender: compland@ism.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: compland@ism.com.br (Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica) Subject: uucp Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi: I have a small ISP running with FreeBSD and need to setup an uucp feed for a BBS. I'm little lost. Can someone point me some directions or a FAQ ? I searched a lot and didn't find a "recipe". I have already registered a domain. The connection will not be permanent. The BBS will connect once a while to get the mail. My main doubt is how to define the DNS entry for the BBS's domain and the tweak that I need to do in sendmail to forward the mail to the uucp queue directory. Thanks a lot! Helio. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 3 19:06:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA03640 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03634 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cedb (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.6.10/DPC-1.0) with SMTP id SAA01029; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:54:26 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:54:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Busarow X-Sender: dan@cedb To: "Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica" cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uucp In-Reply-To: <199608040020.VAA05238@unix1.ism.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Aug 1996, Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica wrote: > connect once a while to get the mail. My main doubt is how to define > the DNS entry for the BBS's domain You don't want to run DNS for a UUCP feed, it's possible but if you don't already know how probably not worth it. Just use entries in /etc/hosts > and the tweak that I need to do in > sendmail to forward the mail to the uucp queue directory. Look at RELAYHOST Dan -- Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 DPC Systems dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 3 19:18:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA04174 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gbdata.com (GB2.Brewich.COM [207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA04166 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA06851; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:17:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199608040217.VAA06851@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: uucp To: compland@ism.com.br (Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:17:20 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608040020.VAA05238@unix1.ism.com.br> from "Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica" at "Aug 3, 96 09:20:42 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=text; x-action=sign Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica wrote: > hi: > > I have a small ISP running with FreeBSD and need to setup an uucp > feed for a BBS. I'm little lost. Can someone point me some directions > or a FAQ ? I searched a lot and didn't find a "recipe". I have already > registered a domain. The connection will not be permanent. The BBS will > connect once a while to get the mail. My main doubt is how to define > the DNS entry for the BBS's domain and the tweak that I need to do in > sendmail to forward the mail to the uucp queue directory. Hello, Here are the basic steps needed: Step 1 Create MX record for BBS domain pointing to your machine Step 2 Re-config sendmail.cf from sources to include uucp defines (Make sure to include mailertable support) Create /etc/mailertable entries create /etc/mailertable database Step 3 Configure UUCP I just got through getting a UUCP setup running here for the last UUCP ISP in Houston (that we know of:)). It would not hurt at all to get the ORA books on these 3 subjects DNS & BIND Sendmail UUCP (I can not remember the correct titles sorry) > Helio. Gary - -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMgQIIQiUiAbyRdGdAQGusgP+O3zdVSF/lyUT0vdAd9QmOXzbX7bav1sw KaqbBEe9myDXd8N4FQk0M4bz2DpcaH+hvu7hSQM3GivWKS8cuiiQrRAE2eFagG0g Nh2t5k2SGx1oJtRAyNBJFwumXNcQ5a1aGhdlZavYbwV2yeqe2T4tDz3ojYoEQkCz 8qXmTwh5oyY= =y3Wt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 3 20:22:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA07706 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA07693 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA03372; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:32:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA01696; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:17:41 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:17:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: Gary Clark II cc: "Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica" , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uucp In-Reply-To: <199608040217.VAA06851@main.gbdata.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Aug 1996, Gary Clark II wrote: [NON-Text Body part not included] Huh? What is this? Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 3 21:21:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA10342 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10337 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA04076; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:32:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA02243; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:17:03 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:17:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: "Helio Coelho Jr. - CompuLand Informatica" Subject: Re: uucp In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Aug 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > On Sat, 3 Aug 1996, Gary Clark II wrote: > > > [NON-Text Body part not included] > > Huh? What is this? I did a little investigation and came across these two references which may help explain why PINE can't display a PGP signed text message http://www.adl.dmt.csiro.au/internal/mail_lists/html/Exmh-Users/msg00118.html http://scuba.uwsuper.edu/~rwhiffen/infomac/IMm5-13.html Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com