From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 26 04:14:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA01676 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:14:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA01670; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:14:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199710261214.EAA01670@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: pulling email addresses from freebsd lists To: softweyr@xmission.com (Wes Peters) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:14:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710240521.XAA04620@obie.softweyr.ml.org> from "Wes Peters" at Oct 23, 97 11:21:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 2 items: first, to help you deal with spam take a look at /etc/mail/README. second, with "U.S. Federal Birbrained Idiots", we would have companies selling chalk-water as milk. safety glass was not installed in cars till the government forced the issue--saftey glass was available in the '30's. be careful, what you wish for, you may get it. jmb Wes Peters wrote: > > Mike Smith writes: > > > I disagree, I believe that (mail) protocols which require authentication > > > and tracability of the sender would cut spam dramatically, > > > > This is absurdly naive. > > > > > If, when you received spam, you > > > could determine the senders email, name, and phone number the amount of > > > complaints to spammers and their ISP's would rise massively. It would > > > also provide the technological infrastructure that governments need to > > > enforce anti-spam legislation. > > > > Alright! Big Brother, here we come. > > > > You DO NOT want what you are proposing, believe me. > > From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Oct 26 04:33:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA02411 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:33:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA02405; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:33:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199710261233.EAA02405@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Are Kudos ok on this list? To: molter@logic.it (Marco Molteni) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:33:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Marco Molteni" at Oct 24, 97 02:04:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marco Molteni wrote: > > The silly part of the deal is that *all* the bosses I know say: "So > you say Yahoo runs FreeBSD, but is it free? Well, if it is free, I > doubt it can be as good as [put the junk you prefer here]". to some people: free can only mean not worth any money. for some of these people money is the only way of determining value. very sad, really. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Oct 27 09:17:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06130 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06102 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:17:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA12586 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:17:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:17:16 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Solaris for personal use...hate to ask here :( Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi... First off...my disclaimer, I run FreeBSD on all my machines, and am not looking to switch... Now, the qustion. Awhile back, I *swore* smeoe pointed out a URL for where you could go get a *personal* copy of Solaris for free...it was at www.sun.com...or am I only thinking of the SCO deal? I'm only looking at this from a development/HotJava/JDK 1.1.x perspective, if its available... From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Oct 27 18:31:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA16802 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:31:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16795 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:31:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01069 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:57:59 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710280227.MAA01069@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Microsoft NIH, minor amusement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:57:59 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For a wonderful example of Microsoft's NIH attitude (and some really disgusting code samples that illustrate just why their code sucks), see: http://www.microsoft.com/win32dev/base/mmfile.htm (no long filenames here, bucko!) mike From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 28 04:21:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18986 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:21:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (root@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18975 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:21:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@lakewood.com) Received: from i4got.lakewood.com (ppp8.monmouth.com [205.164.220.40]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA09271; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:16:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by i4got.lakewood.com id HAA01526 (8.8.5/IDA-1.6); Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:20:58 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Pechter Message-ID: <199710281220.HAA01526@i4got.lakewood.com> Subject: Re: So, FreeBSD can't be a very popular OS, why? In-Reply-To: from "Stephen D. Spencer" at "Oct 28, 97 05:31:59 am" To: lists3@artorius.sunflower.com (Stephen D. Spencer) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:20:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-to: pechter@lakewood.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I figured I'd just drop a short note -- and it turned into a retrospective. Hope no one finds this too boring. > On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Sue Blake wrote: > > > [...] > > If you want to do more with your computer, or if you want to really exploit > > the quality hardware you have, then you want a full, powerful and > > configurable system, like FreeBSD, Linux, etc. The next thing you need is > > someone to install it, set it up, and configure it to suit your needs. Then > > you'll want that person to come in and maintain it occasionally. > > All the power and none of the responsiblity :) > > > [...] > > Learning to do it yourself is where the fun, excitement, and tears come in. > > Unix was never meant for beginners. It expects you to know what you're doing > > and to take full responsibility every step of the way. So you buy books. You > > go back and buy more books. > > > > I must protest your second comment! As someone who has worked in the > tech-support field (Hey, someone told me that when they made you a > sysadmin that you didn't have to take phone calls anymore!) I do not > believe in the operating system that was made for beginners. Bravo... nice post. I learned Unix the old fashioned way. I read books (thank you Bruce Hunter and Evi Nemeth). I spent hours nose to machine. (Ever link a SysV R0 kernel in a memory image to get it to support the system configuration before writing the stuff to disk (loading from 1600 BPI mag tape on a non-VM Concurrent/Perkin Elmer 3200). And that was my FIRST SysAdmin job. Unix doesn't come easy. However, there's this great thing about it. Admin knowledge is built of simple steps, just like building simple tools into more complex programs with scripts and pipes. In the last 10 years I've learned more about Unix than I probably want to. It's become a career (or at least a series of jobs) rangeing from SysAdmin to product support, to instructor, to SysAdmin again, to User Support and back to SysAdmin. Not too bad for an old DEC board swapper. (Please, no jokes on how a DEC FE changes tires on a DECmobile... been there, done that. Have the LARS report to prove it.) Unix -- it's become a hobby, now that Linux and Free/Net/OpenBSD and SCO have put Unix in the affordable range. I oncce ran Coherent and Minix, because of the cost and spent a couple of hundred dollars for 8088 SCO so I could learn Unix at home. [SCO -- if you're out there -- I've got the disks for 3 sets of UNUSED Xenix-86 (and 286) that I'd use if you would just re-license key them for a reasonable fee.] I've become a Unix fan and partisan in the war for better home O/S's. I've purchased OS/2 (not too bad) and Windows 3.1, and Windows 95 and (while OS/2 is ok) I find there's not much stability in the Windows world. The Unix Hater's Handbook describes a number of Unix problems -- including the need to reboot the machine to clear up memory leaks and random unusual problems with SunOS (probably in the 3.x days -- although 4.x wasn't too much better). I've been a DEC Vax/VMS and Tops20 user. I used to really complain about the Unix instability, poor file system that would lose big time (v7/SysIII SysV) on a reboot or crash. I don't see this too much anymore Sounds like Windows to me. Doesn't sound much like FreeBSD. The last 10 years of Unix has finally resulted in a mature OS. We're even discussing ACLs and C2/B1 in FreeBSD. I just saw that implemented in commercial Unix 8 years ago. ACL's on a PC Unix -- amazing. Good work CSRG (RIP). Good work FreeBSD. Eventually this will trickle down to the MS world. I figure in 10 years WIN/NT will reach VAX/VMS 3.5 in stability and useability. (...maybe, if MS stops putting features in that break things) Bill former Unix Hater ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 | 732-389-3592 pechter@lakewood.com | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. This msg brought to you by the letters PDP and the number 11. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 28 04:51:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA20583 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA20576 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mallison@konnections.com) Received: from ip185-199.konnections.com (ip185-214.konnections.com [207.173.185.214]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id FAA11283; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 05:47:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by ip185-199.konnections.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCE365.7BBB5D50@ip185-199.konnections.com>; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 05:51:06 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCE365.7BBB5D50@ip185-199.konnections.com> From: Mike Allison To: "Stephen D. Spencer" , "'pechter@lakewood.com'" Cc: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: So, FreeBSD can't be a very popular OS, why? Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 05:51:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "All the power and none of the responsibility" sounds like a Win NT slogan. Well I guess I did it the old fashioned way too... XENIX/AT (I've got those disks too, bill) Had to call SCO and they actually GAVE me the keys over the phone... (That was '87, though... : -> ) I had to learn it all as I went along. But I was INSTANTLY impressed by how smart the OS way and how much control I had over the machine. I'd be even happier if XENIX hadn't have been a Microsoft product... Yeah all UNIX are beginners OS, everyone is a beginner the first time they use one. If you can't support yourself, use something else, cause I guess you don't need it. -Mike ---------- From: Bill Pechter Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 5:20 AM To: Stephen D. Spencer Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: So, FreeBSD can't be a very popular OS, why? I figured I'd just drop a short note -- and it turned into a retrospective. Hope no one finds this too boring. > On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Sue Blake wrote: > > > [...] > > If you want to do more with your computer, or if you want to really exploit > > the quality hardware you have, then you want a full, powerful and > > configurable system, like FreeBSD, Linux, etc. The next thing you need is > > someone to install it, set it up, and configure it to suit your needs. Then > > you'll want that person to come in and maintain it occasionally. > > All the power and none of the responsiblity :) > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 28 10:16:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09447 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:16:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09439 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:16:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA28197; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:15:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:15:50 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: Bill Pechter cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: So, FreeBSD can't be a very popular OS, why? In-Reply-To: <199710281220.HAA01526@i4got.lakewood.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Bill Pechter wrote: > I've become a Unix fan and partisan in the war for better home O/S's. > I've purchased OS/2 (not too bad) and Windows 3.1, and Windows 95 and > (while OS/2 is ok) I find there's not much stability in the Windows world. Stability on personal computers is hard to judge objectively. When learning about a new system, you gradually learn what things not to do; you learn where quirks are and work around them. After using the system for a long while, this quirk avoidance becomes more or less automatic and you tend to forget exactly what the quirks are. You achieve a stable harmony between you, your applications, and the system. For any given person, the system they use regularly is probably more stable for *them* than other systems. How long does it take to find this stable state? Personally, my patience ran out before I was able to achieve stability with OS/2 (The Warp was okay. The Connect part, not so much). I'm moderately comfortable with Win95, but scared to make any changes because I don't know it well enough--I add something to the system and seemingly unrelated things blow up. I've re-installed Win95 from scratch on a number of occasions where tweaking something caused apparently irreversible damage. If I lived with Win95 more, I probably could have avoided the damage in the first place, or at least understood how to repair it. There are probably just as many ways to shoot yourself in the foot on a Unix system (assuming you are root), but I (usually) know enough not to pull the trigger when aiming at myself. With Windows, it seems that the bullets bounce and hit me even when I don't think I'm aiming at my foot. For a Unix novice, Unix would have bouncing bullets too. If you can't seem to find a stable state, that is a pretty good indicator that the system is ill-suited for the task. Where you really have problems on any system is when the system designer quietly points the gun for you and all you have to do is pull the trigger. Application installation procedures that silently "upgrade" system DLLs on Windows are a nice example of this. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 28 22:50:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25101 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25095 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA02425 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:50:42 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA08909; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:42:29 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971029074229.ZN12474@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:42:29 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Solaris for personal use...hate to ask here :( References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Oct 27, 1997 12:17:16 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As The Hermit Hacker wrote: > Now, the qustion. Awhile back, I *swore* smeoe pointed out a URL for > where you could go get a *personal* copy of Solaris for free...it was at > www.sun.com...or am I only thinking of the SCO deal? You're probably confusing it with the SCO deal, or maybe with Sun's announcement to make the source of Solaris available to a very limited number of clients. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 06:47:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19488 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:47:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from icicle.winternet.com (adm@icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA19480 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:47:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mestery@mail.winternet.com) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10557; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:47:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma010471; Wed, 29 Oct 97 08:46:43 -0600 Received: from localhost (mestery@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA23013; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:46:42 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: tundra.winternet.com: mestery owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:46:42 -0600 (CST) From: Kyle Mestery To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Jeff Henning Subject: The Complete FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I noticed that 2.2.5 is now available on CD-ROM. I have a friend that wants to order the Complete FreeBSD, but the information on Walnut Creek's site says it comes with 2.2.2. I am guessing it now comes with 2.2.5? Does anyone know for sure? Thanks. Kyle Mestery StorageTek's Network Systems Group 7600 Boone Ave. N., Minneapolis, MN 55428 mesteka@anubis.network.com, mestery@winternet.com "You do not greet Death, you punch him in the throat repeatedly until he drags you away." --No Fear From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 09:16:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA28580 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:16:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from mailer.zib.de (mailer.zib.de [130.73.108.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28544 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:15:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wolfram@softs11.zib.de) Received: from soft13.zib.de (soft13.zib.de [130.73.63.13] (may be forged)) by mailer.zib.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25714; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:15:49 +0100 (MET) Received: by soft13.zib.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA05207; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:15:49 +0100 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:15:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199710291715.SAA05207@soft13.zib.de> From: Wolfram Schneider To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: UNIX installation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/notes.html Perhaps more important is the fact that UNIX is essentially a two-man operation at present. Anyone who contemplates a UNIX installation should have available some fairly sophisticated programming talent if any modifications planned, as they almost certainly will be. The amount of time that we can spend working on behalf of, or even advising, new UNIX users is limited. Documentation exists, but never seems to be complete. Notes for a Unix talk circa 1972, Dennis M. Ritchie From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 11:03:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05468 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:03:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05458 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:03:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA09983; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:00:19 -0800 (PST) To: Kyle Mestery cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Jeff Henning Subject: Re: The Complete FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:46:42 CST." Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:00:19 -0800 Message-ID: <9980.878151619@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, I noticed that 2.2.5 is now available on CD-ROM. I have a friend that > wants to order the Complete FreeBSD, but the information on Walnut Creek's > site says it comes with 2.2.2. I am guessing it now comes with 2.2.5? Yes. It's also now in the process of being updated and revised for 2.2.5, so I'd also maybe wait a bit and get the new version. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 17:08:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00889 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:08:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00882 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-38.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.38]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA28591 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:08:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA24319 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:48:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199710300048.SAA24319@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: The Complete FreeBSD In-reply-to: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:00:19 PST." <9980.878151619@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:48:19 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Hi, I noticed that 2.2.5 is now available on CD-ROM. I have a friend that > > wants to order the Complete FreeBSD, but the information on Walnut Creek's > > site says it comes with 2.2.2. I am guessing it now comes with 2.2.5? > > Yes. It's also now in the process of being updated and revised for 2.2.5, > so I'd also maybe wait a bit and get the new version. > > Jordan With replies like that, there is no question FreeBSD lacks Microsoft's marketing skills... turning away a customer who could shortly be socked with an additional $ upgrade. :-) I like it. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 17:32:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02671 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:32:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02658 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:32:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA16359; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:01:48 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971030120148.02188@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:01:48 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Complete FreeBSD References: <199710300048.SAA24319@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199710300048.SAA24319@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from dkelly@hiwaay.net on Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 06:48:19PM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 06:48:19PM -0600, dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: >>> >>> Hi, I noticed that 2.2.5 is now available on CD-ROM. I have a friend that >>> wants to order the Complete FreeBSD, but the information on Walnut Creek's >>> site says it comes with 2.2.2. I am guessing it now comes with 2.2.5? >> >> Yes. It's also now in the process of being updated and revised for 2.2.5, >> so I'd also maybe wait a bit and get the new version. >> >> Jordan > > With replies like that, there is no question FreeBSD lacks Microsoft's > marketing skills... turning away a customer who could shortly be > socked with an additional $ upgrade. :-) Yup. > I like it. In fact, I think they're just about out of the first edition. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 17:50:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03790 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:50:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03781 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:50:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mallison@konnections.com) Received: from ip185-199.konnections.com (ip185-195.konnections.com [207.173.185.195]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA19350; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by ip185-199.konnections.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCE49B.7CD6D890@ip185-199.konnections.com>; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:50:12 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCE49B.7CD6D890@ip185-199.konnections.com> From: Mike Allison To: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" , "'Wolfram Schneider'" Subject: RE: UNIX installation Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:50:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At least UNIX distributors (at least the free ones) will admit that their system is never done and could always use improvements.... Does Microsoft? -Mike ---------- From: Wolfram Schneider Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 10:15 AM To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: UNIX installation http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/notes.html Perhaps more important is the fact that UNIX is essentially a two-man operation at present. Anyone who contemplates a UNIX installation should have available some fairly sophisticated programming talent if any modifications planned, as they almost certainly will be. The amount of time that we can spend working on behalf of, or even advising, new UNIX users is limited. Documentation exists, but never seems to be complete. Notes for a Unix talk circa 1972, Dennis M. Ritchie From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 18:21:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05429 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:21:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05424 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:21:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-38.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.38]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA23989; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:21:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA25244; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:21:02 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199710300221.UAA25244@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: The Complete FreeBSD In-reply-to: Message from Greg Lehey of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:01:48 +1030." <19971030120148.02188@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:21:01 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey writes: > On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 06:48:19PM -0600, dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, I noticed that 2.2.5 is now available on CD-ROM. I have a friend that > >>> wants to order the Complete FreeBSD, but the information on Walnut Creek's > >>> site says it comes with 2.2.2. I am guessing it now comes with 2.2.5? > >> > >> Yes. It's also now in the process of being updated and revised for 2.2.5, > >> so I'd also maybe wait a bit and get the new version. > >> > >> Jordan > > > > With replies like that, there is no question FreeBSD lacks Microsoft's > > marketing skills... turning away a customer who could shortly be > > socked with an additional $ upgrade. :-) > > Yup. > > > I like it. > > In fact, I think they're just about out of the first edition. Ah shucks! You went and ruined the beauty of the moment. Telling a customer to wait for the next edition just isn't the same when you're almost out of the first edition. Maybe Jordan can write a letter to Compaq threatening to revoke their license to install FreeBSD if they don't install TCL also too. Then we can have a big argument as to whether TCL is a part of the OS or not. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 18:33:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05941 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:33:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05936 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA15893; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:33:43 -0800 (PST) To: dkelly@hiwaay.net cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Complete FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:48:19 CST." <199710300048.SAA24319@nospam.hiwaay.net> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:33:42 -0800 Message-ID: <15889.878178822@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ah, but what we lack in marketing skills we more than make up in customer satisfaction. It's just a pity that's not a metric people bother measuring much anymore. :-) Jordan > > > > > > Hi, I noticed that 2.2.5 is now available on CD-ROM. I have a friend tha t > > > wants to order the Complete FreeBSD, but the information on Walnut Creek' s > > > site says it comes with 2.2.2. I am guessing it now comes with 2.2.5? > > > > Yes. It's also now in the process of being updated and revised for 2.2.5, > > so I'd also maybe wait a bit and get the new version. > > > > Jordan > > With replies like that, there is no question FreeBSD lacks Microsoft's > marketing skills... turning away a customer who could shortly be > socked with an additional $ upgrade. :-) > > I like it. > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net > ===================================================================== > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. > > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 19:58:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10803 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:58:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from thelab.hub.org (ppp-001.m4-1.hal.ican.net [142.154.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10795 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:58:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from thelab.hub.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA01004; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:57:38 -0400 (AST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:57:37 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Joerg Wunsch cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Solaris for personal use...hate to ask here :( In-Reply-To: <19971029074229.ZN12474@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > Now, the qustion. Awhile back, I *swore* smeoe pointed out a URL for > > where you could go get a *personal* copy of Solaris for free...it was at > > www.sun.com...or am I only thinking of the SCO deal? > > You're probably confusing it with the SCO deal, or maybe with Sun's > announcement to make the source of Solaris available to a very limited > number of clients. Quite possibly...I have the source, just was hoping to be able to get a copy of Solaris for home :( Having that one Java development station would have been nice...:) Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 20:25:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA12634 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:25:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from mph124.rh.psu.edu (hunt@MPH124.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12629 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:25:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hunt@mph124.rh.psu.edu) Received: (from hunt@localhost) by mph124.rh.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA13102; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:25:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from hunt) Message-ID: <19971029232514.13923@mph124.rh.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:25:14 -0500 From: Matthew Hunt To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) References: <199710300325.WAA20048@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <199710300325.WAA20048@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 10:25:36PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ moved from -hackers to -chat, since I'm being silly] On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 10:25:36PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > i++; /* add one to i */ I would suggest: i++; /* Do nothing with i, and then add one to it */ To distinguish it from the very different: ++i; /* Add one to i, and then do nothing with it */ -- Matthew Hunt * Think locally, act globally. finger hunt@mph124.rh.psu.edu for PGP public key. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 29 21:01:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14209 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14200 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:01:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA01067; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:30:58 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971030153058.18462@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:30:58 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Matthew Hunt Cc: "John S. Dyson" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) References: <199710300325.WAA20048@dyson.iquest.net> <19971029232514.13923@mph124.rh.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19971029232514.13923@mph124.rh.psu.edu>; from Matthew Hunt on Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 11:25:14PM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 11:25:14PM -0500, Matthew Hunt wrote: > [ moved from -hackers to -chat, since I'm being silly] > > On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 10:25:36PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > >>> i++; /* add one to i */ > > I would suggest: > > i++; /* Do nothing with i, and then add one to it */ > > To distinguish it from the very different: > > ++i; /* Add one to i, and then do nothing with it */ Does anybody remember the flow chart generators of the 70's? They really produced nonsense like this in appropriate shaped boxes. But it kept the managers happy :-) Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 03:44:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA04032 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:44:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp5.portal.net.au [202.12.71.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03979 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:43:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00578; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:09:23 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710301139.WAA00578@word.smith.net.au> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:08:31 +1030 From: Mike Smith Subject: Re: BIOS Bootstrap incompatability; AL440LX at A4LL0X0.86A.0013.P03 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Steve Subject: Re: BIOS Bootstrap incompatability; AL440LX at A4LL0X0.86A.0013.P03 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:14:55 PDT." <199710300022.QAA13406@mailbox.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:08:31 +1030 From: Mike Smith > > Thanks for your patience in this matter. The next BIOS update is to > close to completion to be of use in this situation but the issue with > storing the boot device in the DL register will be fixed in a planned > Phoenix BIOS update. Thanks for the update Steve. Do you have an ETA for this latter update that we can provide to people making enquiries? We've recently shipped a major release, and with the popularity of the AL440LX we expect to field quite a number of questions on this. Regards, Mike ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 07:31:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA15254 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:31:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15239 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:31:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@kalypso.cybercom.net) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA22779 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:30:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:30:34 -0500 (EST) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <10125.878152989@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: : I think I'm going to ask if Amancio would like to man Walnut Creek : CDROM's tech support lines for a month or something - I think he'd : find this experience very enlightening in the face of his "most people : shouldn't have any problems getting into X" statement. :-) Don't worry, Amancio, I'm right behind you. Once we get GLQuake ported and running on the Voodoo and Voodoo Rush, we can start working on a thin DirectX emulation layer, and then we'll show them all! Bwahaahhaa! But seriously though, given the number of people on these lists that can tell you the model number of their motherboard and exact revision number of their processor, I wouldn't have thought that knowing your video card manufacturer would present such a challenge. Even *I* can set up X in a matter of minutes without burning down my house. (Well, I can now.) K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 09:39:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA24742 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA24733 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:39:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09845; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:39:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710301739.JAA09845@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:30:34 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:39:07 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Don't worry GLquake will be here in less than a week after that it may be a while before I post again 8) There appears to be a group of users that are truly users at any rate thats my assumption and I hope that the people Jordan is referring to is not the type that can tell you the motherboard brand, i.e. technical adept and inclined. For now what we need is a list of problems that people are having when trying to setup X so we can stand a chance at addressing the issue. Amancio > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > : I think I'm going to ask if Amancio would like to man Walnut Creek > : CDROM's tech support lines for a month or something - I think he'd > : find this experience very enlightening in the face of his "most people > : shouldn't have any problems getting into X" statement. :-) > > Don't worry, Amancio, I'm right behind you. Once we get GLQuake ported > and running on the Voodoo and Voodoo Rush, we can start working on a thin > DirectX emulation layer, and then we'll show them all! Bwahaahhaa! > > But seriously though, given the number of people on these lists that can > tell you the model number of their motherboard and exact revision number > of their processor, I wouldn't have thought that knowing your video card > manufacturer would present such a challenge. Even *I* can set up X in a > matter of minutes without burning down my house. (Well, I can now.) > > K.S. > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 10:58:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29853 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:58:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29844 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA03042; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:55:38 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: The Classiest Man Alive , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:39:07 PST." <199710301739.JAA09845@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:55:38 -0800 Message-ID: <3038.878237738@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For now what we need is a list of problems that people are having > when trying to setup X so we can stand a chance at addressing the issue. It's really pretty simply, and culling this from my own experience on the tech support lines, I can tell you that they fall into the following categories: 1. I have no idea what kind of VGA card I have, how do I tell? 2. How do I know how much video memory is on the card? Which chips should I be counting, or whatever? 3. OK, I've figured out which card I have, which clock settings and such should I use for it? I don't know what a "RAMDAC" is, either. 4. I have a mouse on COM2 - what's that in FreeBSD terminology? 5. OK, I went through all of XF86Setup / xf86config and it still doesn't come up - now what do I do? 6. It comes up, but the screen's all messed up - now what do I do? 7. It comes up but the screen is interlaced and/or the resolution is poor - how do I change it on the fly until reaching something more satisfactory? What people want is essentially this: >Do you want to install the X Window System (Y/n)? Y >Standard or Minimal configuration (S/M)? S Detecting your video card type... Done. Detecting your mouse type... Done. [X comes up in 640x480x16 mode, along with a control panel. The user is now allowed to move a little slider thing which denotes resolution and/or depth and the usual "Test / Save / Quit" buttons do the same thing you see the Win95 VGA card setup utility do]. That's what they want. :) The question only still remains as to who's going to do all of this. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 11:36:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03013 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:36:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02997 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:36:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10186; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:35:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710301935.LAA10186@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Amancio Hasty , The Classiest Man Alive , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:55:38 PST." <3038.878237738@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:35:30 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Who is going to do it ? Very, simple the project which you will fund 8) In the meantime, I will contact the XFree86 team and see what they can do . Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 13:38:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA13033 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:38:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13026 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:38:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA04227; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:37:54 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: The Classiest Man Alive , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:35:30 PST." <199710301935.LAA10186@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:37:54 -0800 Message-ID: <4223.878247474@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Who is going to do it ? Very, simple the project which you will fund 8) Ooh, you're a funny guy, Amancio - have I ever told you that? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 14:08:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA14481 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA14471 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04483 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:08:28 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:08:28 -0800 Message-ID: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm sure I don't need to tell most of you that this little slogan of ours has become outmoded, especially in light of the fact that we seem to be targeting (and best at) the network server market, not the workstation market, with FreeBSD. With that in mind, I'd like to solicit suggestions for a new one, one which will also be added to the new "advertising banner" that I'm having done for the likes of Yahoo and UGU, who use it in their rotational adverts (do a net search for "linux" on yahoo sometime and you'll see it there :-), and to the picture at the top of www.freebsd.org. Also, even though I really do like some of the slogans I've seen like "In a world without fences, who needs Gates?", I think we should probably stay a lot less political than that with our "flagship" slogan and people can reserve the political ones for their .signatures. ;-) The winner of this informal little "slogan contest" will also win a free FreeBSD CD subscription from Walnut Creek CDROM and a FreeBSD T-shirt (and if they already have a subscription, two T-shirts could probably be arranged :). Did I also mention that we're bringing the T-shirts back? We are, but let's not get off topic on that, the topic here is a new slogan! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 14:28:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA15878 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:28:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15869 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10596; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:27:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710302227.OAA10596@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Amancio Hasty , The Classiest Man Alive , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:37:54 PST." <4223.878247474@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:27:37 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nope you are the funny guy. The task of making XF86Setup idiot proof clearly falls into the category of not interesting to hackers. So far there are two possible courses: 1. byte the bullet with respect to the existing status quo 2. fund a project to address the issue However there is the real possibility that the XFree86 project can indeed tackle the issue. Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 14:47:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17213 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:47:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17202 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:46:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09446; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:45:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:45:05 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > With that in mind, I'd like to solicit suggestions for a new one, one > which will also be added to the new "advertising banner" that I'm > having done for the likes of Yahoo and UGU, who use it in their > rotational adverts (do a net search for "linux" on yahoo sometime and > you'll see it there :-), and to the picture at the top of > www.freebsd.org. I'm going to show my personal prejudice here, so I am willing to get laughed at for it. I picked FreeBSD originally because it cared (it seemed to me) more about standards. That both from a point of not making gratuitous changes just for grins, and because of the traceability of the BSD software. That seems to be at least ONE selling point, and it's one that most other free OSs can't compete with. With that in mind, .... "Staying Standard with FreeBSD" huh? If that's too corny, I would like to suggest that maybe the idea's good, just my writing might be poor, so maybe someone else could try the idea too? Another one occurs to me, "Power + Compatibility == FreeBSD" ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 16:17:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA23494 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:17:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA23477 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from james@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2003176; 31 Oct 97 0:10 GMT Received: (from james@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18476; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:52:37 GMT (envelope-from james) Message-ID: <19971030225235.53006@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:52:35 +0000 From: James Raynard To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) References: <199710300325.WAA20048@dyson.iquest.net> <19971029232514.13923@mph124.rh.psu.edu> <19971030153058.18462@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <19971030153058.18462@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 03:30:58PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 03:30:58PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > Does anybody remember the flow chart generators of the 70's? They > really produced nonsense like this in appropriate shaped boxes. But > it kept the managers happy :-) One of my ex-lecturers admitted to writing an assignment-marking program in the 70s that gave credit for well-structured code with lots of comments. It didn't take very long for one of the students to realise they could write a program to generate pointless comments... -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland. james@jraynard.demon.co.uk http://www.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 17:26:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27631 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:26:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27625 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:26:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-222.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.222]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA19529 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:26:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA29775 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:26:40 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199710310126.TAA29775@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-reply-to: Message from Chuck Robey of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:45:05 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:26:40 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey writes: > > I'm going to show my personal prejudice here, so I am willing to get > laughed at for it. I picked FreeBSD originally because it cared (it > seemed to me) more about standards. That both from a point of not making > gratuitous changes just for grins, and because of the traceability of the > BSD software. That seems to be at least ONE selling point, and it's one > that most other free OSs can't compete with. > > With that in mind, .... "Staying Standard with FreeBSD" huh? Getting there. I think the FreeBSD strong points are (not in any particular order) * Tradition. It does what the Unix books say. It runs the way you expect. * Reliability. Probably largely due to the traceability of its source code tree and revisions using automated tools (CVS). As a side note, we got a good laugh at work today, and a whole new respect for FreeBSD. Had never tried Netscape and Afterdark on an 8MB 486/66 before. Swap swap swap swap. But it worked. And was usable if you didn't mind waiting for code to swap in every time you pulled down a menu. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 18:26:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02777 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02765 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:26:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07986; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:26:05 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA08937; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:26:04 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:26:04 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199710310226.DAA08937@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:08:28 -0800 Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm sure I don't need to tell most of you that this little slogan of > ours has become outmoded, especially in light of the fact that we seem > to be targeting (and best at) the network server market, not the > workstation market, with FreeBSD. (1) FreeBSD: The Professional's OS. (2) FreeBSD: Trust an OS with a history. (3) FreeBSD: Power, not price. And on the more flippant note: (4) FreeBSD: Professionals, not hordes. BTW: Beware of the potential misunderstanding of slogan #3. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 18:37:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA03197 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03190 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:37:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA06245; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:36:57 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: The Classiest Man Alive , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:27:37 PST." <199710302227.OAA10596@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:36:57 -0800 Message-ID: <6242.878265417@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Nope you are the funny guy. The task of making XF86Setup idiot proof > clearly falls into the category of not interesting to hackers. > So far there are two possible courses: > 1. byte the bullet with respect to the existing status quo > 2. fund a project to address the issue But I don't have funding for such a project nor am I likely to anytime soon. > However there is the real possibility that the XFree86 project can indeed > tackle the issue. That would be good, yes. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 18:40:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA03498 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:40:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03491 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:40:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA06265; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:40:35 -0800 (PST) To: Douglas Carmichael Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:57:49 CST." <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:40:35 -0800 Message-ID: <6261.878265635@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please don't cc this to -hackers; I started this discussion in -chat and want it to *remain* there, thanks! And both of these are nice but far too long - think "slogan", not "full page description" in your suggestions, folks. :-) Jordan > Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: > > Don't believe the hype. For a truly open, scalable operating > environment, look to FreeBSD. > > You don't need to bet on Microsoft's luck, with FreeBSD you can save major > bucks! > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 19:16:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA05675 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:16:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from gemini.cia.com (root@gemini.cybersurf.net [206.186.110.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05666 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stephane@cybersurf.net) Received: from einstein (geminippp63.cybersurf.net [206.186.110.63]) by gemini.cia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA20156 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:16:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> From: "Stephane Raimbault" To: Subject: Prefered X Window Manager? Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:15:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2020.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2020.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently using twm which comes with XFree86. Thanks, curious Steph. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 19:26:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06039 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:26:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06034; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00417; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:29:47 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dcarmich) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199710310229.UAA00417@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: More slogans To: jkh@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:29:46 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD - The way open computing was meant to be. FreeBSD - Reliability, Availability, Scalability, Affordability. FreeBSD - From the desktop to the server, we've got you covered! FreeBSD - Open enterprise computing, today! From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 19:49:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07461 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:49:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebox.pharm.uky.edu (freebox.pharm.uky.edu [128.163.82.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07454 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cawimm0@uky.edu) Received: from mgr.pharm.uky.edu (mgr.pharm.uky.edu [128.163.82.77]) by freebox.pharm.uky.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA07134 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:48:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971030224857.00a22210@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: cawimm0@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:48:57 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: "Charles A. Wimmer" Subject: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'll start with the obvious ;-> FreeBSD: Turning PC's into Servers Then some I actually came up with myself: Speed, reliability, versatility. FreeBSD. FreeBSD: Where perfomance matters. FreeBSD: Where uptime is measured in months, not days. FreeBSD: Source, speed, and rock solid performance. Think solid server. Think FreeBSD. -- Charles A. Wimmer o-|cawimm0@uky.edu |Work(606)257-1169 B02 College of Pharmacy|#include |Page(606)231-4710 University of Kentucky |http://web.pharm.uky.edu/~charles Lexington, Kentucky |finger charles@web.pharm.uky.edu for pgp key From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 19:55:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07691 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:55:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from elmira.functional.com (elmira.functional.com [198.82.216.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07686; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:55:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grail@elmira.functional.com) Received: (from grail@localhost) by elmira.functional.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA19379; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:54:48 GMT Message-ID: <19971031035448.62380@functional.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:54:48 +0000 From: Giao Nguyen To: Douglas Carmichael Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More slogans References: <199710310229.UAA00417@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199710310229.UAA00417@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net>; from Douglas Carmichael on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 08:29:46PM -0600 Organization: FIS Technologies X-Quote: Funny how your feet in dreams never touch the earth. X-Attribute: Heart, _These Dreams_ X-Saying: Maniacal laughter is the best medicine. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Douglas Carmichael said: > > FreeBSD - Open enterprise computing, today! Oooh! I like this one. Let's get rid of the today bits. -- Giao Nguyen FIS Technologies Software Design and Network Solutions From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 20:04:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07991 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:04:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from kevin.sunshine.net (pme138.sunshine.net [204.191.204.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07975 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:04:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roslyn_griston@sunshine.net) Received: from localhost (roz@localhost) by kevin.sunshine.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00705 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:04:01 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: kevin.sunshine.net: roz owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:03:26 -0800 (PST) From: Roz Griston X-Sender: roz@kevin.sunshine.net Reply-To: Roz Griston To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > With that in mind, I'd like to solicit suggestions for a new one, one > which will also be added to the new "advertising banner" that I'm > having done for the likes of Yahoo and UGU, who use it in their > rotational adverts (do a net search for "linux" on yahoo sometime and > you'll see it there :-), and to the picture at the top of > www.freebsd.org. How about: FreeBSD - simply networking for the new millenium. Roz From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 20:04:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08007 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07992 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:04:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09029; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:04:33 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id FAA09256; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:04:33 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:04:33 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199710310404.FAA09256@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: "Stephane Raimbault" CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: "Stephane Raimbault"'s message of Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:15:50 -0000 Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? References: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > using twm which comes with XFree86. Presently I'm using KDEs kwm - doesn't look as good as it could, but it is integrated with a desktop project that I'd like to do some things for. However, to get that running, you'd have to have a bit of porting experience yourself - it doesn't compile straight out of the box, and isn't a port yet (probably due to the complex nature of making a good port of it - yeah, I've looked at that). I've used afterstep until a week ago, and fvwm before that. Anything is better than twm. If you're after recommendations: I'd recommend looking at at least enlightenment and afterstep (if you like NeXTstep style) or fvwm95 and qvm (?) if you like Win95 style, KDE if you feel the project interesting (check out http://www.kde.org). Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 20:14:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08628 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:14:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08623 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:14:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA10618; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:12:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:12:55 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Stephane Raimbault cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > using twm which comes with XFree86. I use fvwm2, and I've noticed most of my (local) friends do too. Dunno what most use here on the list, they're too far away to visit! Most of the newer WM's out there are modifications (in some form) of fvwm. > > Thanks, > curious Steph. > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 20:29:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09369 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:29:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09362 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:29:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jandrese@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20887 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:29:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from jandrese.async.vt.edu (jandrese.async.vt.edu [128.173.19.77]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA05341 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:29:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:29:24 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Andresen X-Sender: jandrese@jandrese.async.vt.edu To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <199710310404.FAA09256@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ~~ ~~ So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently ~~ using twm which comes with XFree86. ~~ Check out http://www.PLiG.org/xwinman for comparisons of the various window mangaers. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::. . . . . ..:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: Jason Andresen :. . . . . . . . . : Turbocharge your PC :: :: jandrese@vt.edu :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:: www.FreeBSD.org :: :.........................: Quote of the day :..........................: "If a camel flies, no one laughs if it doesn't get very far." -- Paul White :::::::::::.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.........................:.:.:.:.:.:.:.::::::::::: From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 21:20:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12063 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:20:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from internet1.mel.cybec.com.au (internet1.mel.cybec.com.au [203.103.154.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12057 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from LODea@vet.com.au) Received: from tech3 (tech3.mel.cybec.com.au [203.103.154.3]) by internet1.mel.cybec.com.au (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-14031) with SMTP id AAA1261 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:23:39 +1100 From: LODea@vet.com.au (Lachlan O'Dea) To: Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:20:38 +1100 Message-ID: <01bce5bc$b924a490$039a67cb@tech3.mel.cybec.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Charles A. Wimmer wrote: >FreeBSD: Source, speed, and rock solid performance. FreeBSD: Speed, Stability, Source! From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 21:34:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12577 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:34:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from micro.internexus.net (root@internexus.net [206.152.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12560; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cliff@cliffsworld.com) Received: from c.f.ains (ppp13.internexus.net [206.152.14.204]) by micro.internexus.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA12323; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:34:16 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971031003450.0076dd20@mail.internexus.net> X-Sender: compatriot@mail.internexus.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:34:50 -0500 To: Giao Nguyen , Douglas Carmichael From: cliff ainsworth III Subject: Re: More slogans Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971031035448.62380@functional.com> References: <199710310229.UAA00417@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> <199710310229.UAA00417@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmmmmmm............. >> FreeBSD - Open enterprise computing, today! > >Oooh! I like this one. Let's get rid of the today bits. You might have to modify your fonts for this sig to read correctly see ya!! -cliff \++================================| _=_ \_http://www.freebsd.org________/ ___/==+++==\___ """\__ \""" |======================================/ \__ \_ / .. . _/--===+_____+===--"" \__ \ _/. .. _/ `+' \__ \ __/_______/ \ / ___-\_\-'---==+____| ---==O=- __--+" . . . "==_ / \ / |. . .. -------- | \ "==+_ . . -------- | / ""\___ . .. __==" """"--=--"" FreeBSD-Open Enterprise Computing From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 21:52:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13455 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:52:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13446 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:52:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA09497; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:49:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:49:30 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, I'll give it a shot: "FreeBSD: Strong, Stable, Smart" "FreeBSD: Power-Up your PC" "FreeBSD: Proven to Perform" "FreeBSD: The power to Serve" "FreeBSD: Stability. Flexibility. Power." "FreeBSD: Make it yours..." and then the silly ones: "FreeBSD: Powering more of the Internet than you thought" "FreeBSD: Why the hell would you want NT, anyway?" "FreeBSD: Resurrecting more 486's everyday" Yow, so that's how it feels to work in marketing. Ouch. Charles On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'm sure I don't need to tell most of you that this little slogan of > ours has become outmoded, especially in light of the fact that we seem > to be targeting (and best at) the network server market, not the > workstation market, with FreeBSD. > > With that in mind, I'd like to solicit suggestions for a new one, one > which will also be added to the new "advertising banner" that I'm > having done for the likes of Yahoo and UGU, who use it in their > rotational adverts (do a net search for "linux" on yahoo sometime and > you'll see it there :-), and to the picture at the top of > www.freebsd.org. > > Also, even though I really do like some of the slogans I've seen like > "In a world without fences, who needs Gates?", I think we should probably > stay a lot less political than that with our "flagship" slogan and > people can reserve the political ones for their .signatures. ;-) > > The winner of this informal little "slogan contest" will also win a > free FreeBSD CD subscription from Walnut Creek CDROM and a FreeBSD > T-shirt (and if they already have a subscription, two T-shirts could > probably be arranged :). Did I also mention that we're bringing the > T-shirts back? We are, but let's not get off topic on that, the topic > here is a new slogan! :) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 21:53:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13539 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:53:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13529 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:53:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA06537; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:23:40 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971031162340.39717@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:23:40 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Roz Griston Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Roz Griston on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 08:03:26PM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 08:03:26PM -0800, Roz Griston wrote: > >> With that in mind, I'd like to solicit suggestions for a new one, one >> which will also be added to the new "advertising banner" that I'm >> having done for the likes of Yahoo and UGU, who use it in their >> rotational adverts (do a net search for "linux" on yahoo sometime and >> you'll see it there :-), and to the picture at the top of >> www.freebsd.org. > > How about: > > FreeBSD - simply networking for the new millenium. This reminds me of something. FreeBSD is the grandson of 4.2BSD, right, the operating system which paved the way for the Internet. There should be some catchy phrase with that, but so far it's eluded me. Something like FreeBSD - the operating system of the Internet I'm sure somebody can improve on this. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 22:37:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15962 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:37:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15954 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA08348; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:06:47 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971031170646.60054@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:06:46 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: spork Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from spork on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 12:49:30AM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 12:49:30AM -0500, spork wrote: > > "FreeBSD: The power to Serve" I like this one. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 22:45:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16411 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:45:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from kevin.sunshine.net (pme37.sunshine.net [204.191.204.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16405 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by kevin.sunshine.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00974; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:44:35 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: kevin.sunshine.net: cagey owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:44:00 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Eliuk X-Sender: cagey@kevin.sunshine.net To: Greg Lehey cc: Roz Griston , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: <19971031162340.39717@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 08:03:26PM -0800, Roz Griston wrote: > > > >> With that in mind, I'd like to solicit suggestions for a new one, one > >> which will also be added to the new "advertising banner" that I'm > >> having done for the likes of Yahoo and UGU, who use it in their > >> rotational adverts (do a net search for "linux" on yahoo sometime and > >> you'll see it there :-), and to the picture at the top of > >> www.freebsd.org. > > > > How about: > > > > FreeBSD - simply networking for the new millenium. > > This reminds me of something. FreeBSD is the grandson of 4.2BSD, > right, the operating system which paved the way for the Internet. > There should be some catchy phrase with that, but so far it's eluded > me. Something like > > FreeBSD - the operating system of the Internet > > I'm sure somebody can improve on this. > > Greg If I remember correctly the old homepage had something like: FreeBSD: The internet starts here. What comes to mind is: FreeBSD: 2000 overproof internet or FreeBSD: Free spirit of the internet. -- =| Regards, =| FreeBSD ==> http://www.FreeBSD.org =| Kevin G. Eliuk =| "Free at last, free at last, ...." British Columbia *BSD User Directory ==> http://www.cynic.net From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 22:56:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16791 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:56:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA16786 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 27376 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Oct 1997 07:07:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19971031080758.12197@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:07:58 +0100 From: braukmann@tse-online.de To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <3.0.3.32.19971030224857.00a22210@pop.uky.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971030224857.00a22210@pop.uky.edu>; from Charles A. Wimmer on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:48:57PM -0500 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Think solid server. Think FreeBSD. hmm. Nice cross-marketing slogan for a affordable database-server solution. (http://www.solidtech.com) -andreas -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | Turning PCs to servers /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// -------------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 23:14:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA17829 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:14:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from u3.farm.idt.net (root@u3.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17824 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:14:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garycorc@idt.net) Received: from idt.net (ppp-33.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.33]) by u3.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02417; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:13:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3459844B.61203582@idt.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:10:03 -0500 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <19971031162340.39717@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > > This reminds me of something. FreeBSD is the grandson of 4.2BSD, > right, the operating system which paved the way for the Internet. > There should be some catchy phrase with that, but so far it's eluded > me. Something like > > FreeBSD - the operating system of the Internet > > I'm sure somebody can improve on this. > How about: FreeBSD - Powering the Internet This targets the use of FreeBSD for network servers too, no? Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 30 23:38:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18951 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:38:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18946 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:38:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25927; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:38:15 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:38:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Greg Lehey cc: Roz Griston , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: <19971031162340.39717@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > >This reminds me of something. FreeBSD is the grandson of 4.2BSD, >right, the operating system which paved the way for the Internet. >There should be some catchy phrase with that, but so far it's eluded >me. Something like > > FreeBSD - the operating system of the Internet > >I'm sure somebody can improve on this. > FreeBSD: from the makers of Internet FreeBSD: coming to theaters near you soon /* whats with the Hollywood theme? */ FreeBSD: free is better FreeBSD: takes one floppy to install /* well.. and a net connection :) */ FreeBSD: this is all you need /* from Beatles 'All you need is love' */ FreeBSD: enjoy the ride /* Ohh wait, thats Nissan */ FreeBSD: MIR is using it /* NO! This is definitely not it! */ FreeBSD: anyplace, anytime, anywhere FreeBSD: do gazzilion things at once /* Didn't jkh said that once on irc? */ FreeBSD: don't just take our word for it FreeBSD: everyone is doing it FreeBSD: just do more /* Hi Nike */ FreeBSD: Go now! /* Didn't I see "Go now!" at www.oracle.com several months ago? */ FreeBSD: Simply FreeBSD /* Ok, ok, I can't think of anything else :) -- Yan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 00:02:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA19992 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:02:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA19987 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:02:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08538; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:01:57 -0800 (PST) To: Eivind Eklund cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:26:04 +0100." <199710310226.DAA08937@bitbox.follo.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:01:57 -0800 Message-ID: <8535.878284917@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (3) FreeBSD: Power, not price. I have to say that this entry currently tops my list for "short and sweet". If you want to beat this one, you'll have to do better guys. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 00:11:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20487 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:11:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20481; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:10:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08581; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:10:28 -0800 (PST) To: Douglas Carmichael cc: jkh@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More slogans In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:29:46 CST." <199710310229.UAA00417@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:10:28 -0800 Message-ID: <8577.878285428@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FreeBSD - The way open computing was meant to be. Not bad.. > FreeBSD - From the desktop to the server, we've got you covered! Or maybe even: "FreeBSD - From the desktop to the server, it's covered!" though some might wonder just what's being "covered", so perhaps if you want to emphasise something which covers desktop to server, you could say "FreeBSD - Top performance from the desktop to the server!" or something like that. I'm still trying to keep it down to 6 words or less though. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 00:21:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20958 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:21:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20952 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:21:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA08659; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:21:09 -0800 (PST) To: Chuck Robey cc: Stephane Raimbault , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:12:55 EST." Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:21:09 -0800 Message-ID: <8655.878286069@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I use fvwm2, and I've noticed most of my (local) friends do too. Dunno > what most use here on the list, they're too far away to visit! I think you'll find a lot of fvwm / fvwm2 users on this list, actually. :) I still use good 'old fvwm, myself. It does everything I need and has an easy-to-use virtual desktop interface, which is about 90% of what I use a WM for. Enlightenment is pretty visual, but I can't imagine actually using it in everyday life. It's more one of those window managers that you simply stand back and admire, like a painting. It doesn't have to have any actual functional purpose. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 00:56:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22799 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:56:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22794 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:56:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12090; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:56:53 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA09939; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:56:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:56:52 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199710310856.JAA09939@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: perhaps@yes.no, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, tore@yes.no In-reply-to: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:01:57 -0800 Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <199710310226.DAA08937@bitbox.follo.net> <8535.878284917@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > (3) FreeBSD: Power, not price. > > I have to say that this entry currently tops my list for "short and > sweet". If you want to beat this one, you'll have to do better > guys. :) I ran this by our marketing exec - he thinks it give associations to "boy's rooms OS". I tend to agree with him. He is usually quite good at this kind of stuff, but said he needed a mission statement to be able to give it a go. So - what image do we want FreeBSD to project? My priorities are * Professional * Fast * Powerful in that order. Can somebody else come up with a better definition of what we want to communicate? Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 02:48:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA28120 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:48:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA28111 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:48:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.8.7/8.8.6) id MAA04559; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:49:58 +0200 (SAT) Message-ID: <19971031124957.08424@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:49:57 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <199710310226.DAA08937@bitbox.follo.net> <8535.878284917@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85 In-Reply-To: <8535.878284917@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 12:01:57AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Being brave and sticking my neck out... On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 12:01:57AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > (3) FreeBSD: Power, not price. > > I have to say that this entry currently tops my list for "short and > sweet". If you want to beat this one, you'll have to do better > guys. :) In a similar vain, although maybe a bit long: FreeBSD: because you never get everything you paid for... FreeBSD: the best things in life are free. and my favourite: FreeBSD: No empty promises. -Jeremy -- .sig.gz From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 03:57:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00716 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:57:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from swpc30.rdg.ac.uk (swpc30.rdg.ac.uk [134.225.101.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00709 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:57:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from markb@met.reading.ac.uk) Received: from met.reading.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by swpc30.rdg.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02454; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:56:06 GMT Message-Id: <199710311156.LAA02454@swpc30.rdg.ac.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:08:28 PST." <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:56:05 +0000 From: Mark Blackman Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Serious Server Solutions on a Shoestring" :) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 05:12:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04364 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04358 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:12:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA21995 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:12:20 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:12:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Argh... this is what you get for send eMail at 5am. Sorry for sending it to -hackers. It should have gone straight to -chat in the first place. Time to go sleep now. :) -- Yan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:10:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum To: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > In reality, FreeBSD can not be concurentable ws NT, we have few big >problems: > 1. bad java support > 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) > 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. Can't comment here since I don't much on this topic. > 2. We have not GUI admin interface for FreeBSD, > so newbaies will preffer other systems. This is a win in our side. I find it a plus not needing a gui and beeng on the console for the important tasks. As for newbies? Thats why there is NT, so they won't bother us. Just kidding. I think you should learn the OS from the bottom up. First you learn shell, kernel, file system, io, vm, etc and then only you go to X/GUI. I know some "NT Admins" who don't even suspect that NT can be used in the DOS mode (or shell, or emulator, or whatever you call that scary little rectangular DOS looking like prompt). > 3. near 80% of using computers is databases. > we have not port of client software for well-known > commerce databases (Oracle, Sysbase, Informix) Well, I'd say that 90% of computers are used in the network environment and that is where BSD's networking code comes into the picture. NT and it's legacy LAN Manager (for "compatibility") is somewhat behind. But to answer your question: this is not our fault that Informix, Sybase and such choose not to make products for free OSes. I hope that will change soon however. Meanwhile you can use SCO or Linux binaries from those commercial databases if such exist. > 4. We have not good c++ compiler. > gcc is great, but exceptions and namespaces are > very important stuff for c++ programmers. > And standart string class yet not well in 2.2-stable. > Give us time. :) -- Yan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 05:22:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04837 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:22:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04780 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:20:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.inteng.com ([168.176.3.46]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA12446; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:22:46 +0500 Message-ID: <3459D995.267AE7E3@asme.org> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:13:57 +0000 From: "Pedro Giffuni S." Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Suing Microsoft is sort of a fashion nowadays and an excellent publicity so I don't thing something in those lines should be discarded. Anyway, what is really important here is that a market is chosen and the publicity is directed towards the group. In particular it would be of great value to know: 1) Average age of the common FreeBSD user. 2) Average social and economical status. 3) sex (Not how many times a day, but whether male/female or "other" ;-) ). The most important of these is (2), even with FreeBSD being free, I don't believe people with less money are particularly more oriented toward UNIX. >From what I know I'd guess FreeBSD users are technically classified into the "experiential" type. This group is very interested in hearing they are using a solution that is unique, that they will have a once in a lifetime experience, and that they are using something with a personal touch. Something ecological is also a good idea for this particular group. (Hey, that 2 weeks intensive marketing course wasn't that bad !) Of course, the trivial options are already taken: FreeBSD: Solutions for a small planet. :-) Contrary to the group I would like something more conservative: FreeBSD: art, science and tradition beyond 2000. By year 2000, you would a new slogan: 7 letters, the perfect OS: FreeBSD Bah...I don't know, I already have a subscription...I'll think of something when Jordan gives away FreeBSD mugs ;-). cheers, Pedro. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 05:39:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA05805 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:39:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA05799 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:39:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA02891; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:37:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga15-14.ix.netcom.com(204.32.174.110) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002878; Fri Oct 31 07:37:23 1997 Message-ID: <3459DEEB.DBA0B1FE@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:36:43 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> <3459ED5A.9FF16E75@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > In reality, FreeBSD can not be concurentable ws NT, we have few big > problems: At our shop, in reality, we get more *done* on our FreeBSD boxes. > 1. bad java support > 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) > 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. Java is another infantile disorder (see Dijkstra). It's also from Sun. For the first time in history, the entire computing industry is preparing to embrace a proprietary, unstandardized, unverifiable, incomplete language. Blech. If Sun chose to make the regression test suites public (they aren't), then perhaps the library support would be better for all platforms, not just FreeBSD. Have you ever seen the Java source distribution? Licensing terms? Double-blech. > 2. We have not GUI admin interface for FreeBSD, > so newbaies will preffer other systems. Wahhh, write one. ;) > 3. near 80% of using computers is databases. > we have not port of client software for well-known > commerce databases (Oracle, Sysbase, Informix) 80%? What is your source for that figure? Faircom has an excellent well-known commercial database running on FreeBSD, more appropriate for many applications than those you mentioned. Source available too. > 4. We have not good c++ compiler. > gcc is great, but exceptions and namespaces are > very important stuff for c++ programmers. > And standart string class yet not well in 2.2-stable. Even so, we really do get more *done* on FreeBSD than our other systems. There are enough people using and developing for gcc that some critical mass has been reached. It'll happen. Probably way before Java is complete. We use RogueWave tools.h++ for commercial C++ apps. Works nicely. > FreeBSD: No slogan required. It's good. Cheers! Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 05:54:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA06811 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:54:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA06806 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:54:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199710311349.IAA14613@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:52:10 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Stephane Raimbault cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > using twm which comes with XFree86. > > Thanks, > curious Steph. > I use ctwm. Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net Abusenet: The Misinformation Superhighway From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 06:20:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA09165 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:20:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br ([146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA09116 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:20:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27793; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:18:37 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199710311418.MAA27793@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Oct 30, 97 02:08:28 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:18:37 -0200 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here are some shots: FreeBSD: Networking the future FreeBSD: Networking the freedom FreeBSD: More for less FreeBSD: Why pay more to get less ? FreeBSD: Everywhere, everytime, everything you wanted FreeBSD: The source to your solution FreeBSD: Here's the answer (Ok, I know it's indeed 42, but, this is just a slogan) Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 06:33:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA10806 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:33:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua ([195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA10781 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:32:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rssh@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua) Received: from cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23204; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:14:08 GMT Message-ID: <345A11DF.75AD9E8@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:14:07 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> <3459ED5A.9FF16E75@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> <3459DEEB.DBA0B1FE@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jerry Hicks wrote: > Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > ? > ? In reality, FreeBSD can not be concurentable ws NT, we have few big > ? problems: > At our shop, in reality, we get more *done* on our FreeBSD boxes. > > ? 1. bad java support > ? 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) > ? 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. > Java is another infantile disorder (see Dijkstra). It's also from Sun. > For the first time in history, the entire computing industry is > preparing to embrace a proprietary, unstandardized, unverifiable, > incomplete language. Blech. > > If Sun chose to make the regression test suites public (they aren't), > then perhaps the library support would be better for all platforms, not > just FreeBSD. > > Have you ever seen the Java source distribution? Licensing terms? > Double-blech. > Good. but exist reality. In reality, I must use corporate database, and have ability to run/ *quickly* develop clients with graphical interface. Java is a goot tool, as Delphi for Windows. (I'm not Java patriot, or Delphi patriot, but as IT manager I can not choose something else) (Tk-perl with connect to internal Oracle client, running on top of SCO emulator ???) > ? 2. We have not GUI admin interface for FreeBSD, > ? so newbaies will preffer other systems. > Wahhh, write one. ;) > May be ;) (time;;)) > ? 3. near 80% of using computers is databases. > ? we have not port of client software for well-known > ? commerce databases (Oracle, Sysbase, Informix) > 80%? What is your source for that figure? Faircom has an excellent > well-known commercial database running on FreeBSD, more appropriate for > many applications than those you mentioned. Source available too. Thanks. > ? 4. We have not good c++ compiler. > ? gcc is great, but exceptions and namespaces are > ? very important stuff for c++ programmers. > ? And standart string class yet not well in 2.2-stable. > Even so, we really do get more *done* on FreeBSD than our other > systems. There are enough people using and developing for gcc that some > critical mass has been reached. It'll happen. Probably way before Java > is complete. > > We use RogueWave tools.h++ for commercial C++ apps. Works nicely. > > ? > > FreeBSD: No slogan required. It's good. > > Cheers! > > Jerry Hicks > jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 06:36:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA10977 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:36:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA10963 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:36:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA24427; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:36:27 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710311436.JAA24427@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <199710311349.IAA14613@gatekeeper.itribe.net> from Jamie Bowden at "Oct 31, 97 08:52:10 am" To: jamie@itribe.net (Jamie Bowden) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:36:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: stephane@cybersurf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jamie Bowden said: > On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > > > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > > using twm which comes with XFree86. > > > > Thanks, > > curious Steph. > > > > I use ctwm. > That is a good WM (I use that also), but right now, I use fvwm95. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 06:37:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11036 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA10962 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:36:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA07643; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:36:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:36:24 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Stephane Raimbault cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > using twm which comes with XFree86. I'm using qvwm at the moment. It offers a more faithful win95-style interface than fvwm95. It is also one of the few not derived from twm or fvwm and despite being written in C++ it is actually smaller than any of the fvwm derivatives I've tried. Also, not be a hacked version of a hacked version of a hacked version of twm, the source code is quite clear should you want to look at it. Once or twice a month it blows up on me but my xsession falls back to mwm when that happens. (Interesting challenge: can anyone find a window manager that consumes MORE memory, or has FASTER memory leaks than mwm?) -john From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 06:42:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11361 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA11351 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:42:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA07668; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:41:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:41:46 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems like an obvious thing to say, but considering how rare it is these days... FreeBSD: Software that actually works -john From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 06:47:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12011 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:47:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dumbwinter.logic.it (m2.logic.it [195.120.151.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA12000 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from molter@logic.it) Received: (qmail 1591 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Oct 1997 14:39:00 -0000 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:38:59 +0100 (MET) From: Marco Molteni To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Jan Koum , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Jan Koum wrote: > On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >This reminds me of something. FreeBSD is the grandson of 4.2BSD, > >right, the operating system which paved the way for the Internet. > >There should be some catchy phrase with that, but so far it's > >eluded me. Something like > > > > FreeBSD - the operating system of the Internet > > > >I'm sure somebody can improve on this. > > FreeBSD: from the makers of Internet I *love* these two, kudos to Greg and Jan. Marco Molteni Computer Science student at the Universita' degli studi di Milano, Italy. "Whuffo you jump out of them airplanes?" From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 06:51:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12398 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:51:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12354 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:50:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06758; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:50:13 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id IAA10864; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:49:41 -0600 Message-ID: <19971031084941.17238@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:49:41 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "Pedro Giffuni S." Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> <3459D995.267AE7E3@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <3459D995.267AE7E3@asme.org>; from Pedro Giffuni S. on Oct 10, 1997 at 01:13:57PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 10, 1997 at 01:13:57PM +0000, Pedro Giffuni S. wrote: > Bah...I don't know, I already have a subscription...I'll think of > something when Jordan gives away FreeBSD mugs ;-). Hey, I want one of those too! With the daemon spearing a java^H^H^H^Hcoffee bean, as well? :-) -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 06:57:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12672 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:57:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12666 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 06:57:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06771; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:56:25 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id IAA11109; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:55:53 -0600 Message-ID: <19971031085553.53247@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:55:53 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Jan Koum Cc: Greg Lehey , Roz Griston , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <19971031162340.39717@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Jan Koum on Oct 10, 1997 at 11:38:15PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 10, 1997 at 11:38:15PM -0800, Jan Koum wrote: > FreeBSD: Simply FreeBSD > /* Ok, ok, I can't think of anything else :) Isn't this Absolut? -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 07:32:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA14669 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:32:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA14664 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:32:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA14281; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:31:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga15-14.ix.netcom.com(204.32.174.110) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014252; Fri Oct 31 09:30:56 1997 Message-ID: <3459F988.3EE161AD@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:30:16 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> <3459ED5A.9FF16E75@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> <3459DEEB.DBA0B1FE@ix.netcom.com> <345A11DF.75AD9E8@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: [snip] > > Good. but exist reality. In reality, I must use corporate database, > and have ability to run/ *quickly* develop clients with graphical > interface. > For varying definitions of reality. My reality: Java = Marketing Hype From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 07:33:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA14730 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:33:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA14705 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:33:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06887; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:33:04 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id JAA14926; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:32:33 -0600 Message-ID: <19971031093233.33598@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:32:33 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: John Fieber Cc: Stephane Raimbault , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? References: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from John Fieber on Oct 10, 1997 at 09:36:24AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 10, 1997 at 09:36:24AM -0500, John Fieber wrote: > Once or twice a month it blows up on me but my xsession falls > back to mwm when that happens. (Interesting challenge: can > anyone find a window manager that consumes MORE memory, or has > FASTER memory leaks than mwm?) Enlightenment. But it's being improved.. For me, I'll stick with tvtwm, thanks very much. It may be old, but it _never_ crashes on me, and it still works well on some really slow clients that I have. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 07:47:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA15615 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:47:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15607 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:47:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04873; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:47:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710311547.HAA04873@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: John Fieber cc: Stephane Raimbault , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:36:24 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:47:19 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think the multimedia types will prefer "Elightenment" 8) Cheers, Amancio > On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > > > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > > using twm which comes with XFree86. > > I'm using qvwm at the moment. It offers a more faithful > win95-style interface than fvwm95. It is also one of the few not > derived from twm or fvwm and despite being written in C++ it is > actually smaller than any of the fvwm derivatives I've tried. > Also, not be a hacked version of a hacked version of a hacked > version of twm, the source code is quite clear should you want to > look at it. > > Once or twice a month it blows up on me but my xsession falls > back to mwm when that happens. (Interesting challenge: can > anyone find a window manager that consumes MORE memory, or has > FASTER memory leaks than mwm?) > > -john > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 08:13:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA16980 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:13:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from radford.i-plus.net (root@NS.i-Plus.net [208.24.67.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16974 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:12:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rewt@i-Plus.net) Received: from abyss (pitlord@dead.i-Plus.net [206.99.237.44]) by radford.i-plus.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA22794; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:11:28 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "Troy Settle" From: "Troy Settle" To: Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: More slogans Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:18:43 -0500 Message-ID: <01bce618$a8472650$2ced63ce@abyss> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD: A System Worth Operating -- Troy Settle -- - -- - -- -- Got 'Net? -- Network Administrator | This space | Explore the world with st@i-Plus.net | for rent | iPlus Internet Services ICQ: 1625842 -- - -- - -- http://www.i-Plus.net -----Original Message----- From: Jordan K. Hubbard To: Douglas Carmichael Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG ; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Friday, October 31, 1997 3:32 AM Subject: Re: More slogans >> FreeBSD - The way open computing was meant to be. > >Not bad.. > >> FreeBSD - From the desktop to the server, we've got you covered! > >Or maybe even: > >"FreeBSD - From the desktop to the server, it's covered!" > >though some might wonder just what's being "covered", so perhaps >if you want to emphasise something which covers desktop to server, >you could say "FreeBSD - Top performance from the desktop to the server!" >or something like that. > >I'm still trying to keep it down to 6 words or less though. :) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 08:24:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17597 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:24:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17588 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:24:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07929; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:23:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:23:56 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Mike Smith cc: Douglas Carmichael , jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" Going off the MS theme: FreeBSD: Get there. For a little less obtuse version: FreeBSD: Get where you want to go today. > "Nine out of ten dentists recommend FreeBSD" This is my favorite so far. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 09:10:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20245 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20221 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:10:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@kalypso.cybercom.net) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19465 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:09:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:09:13 -0500 (EST) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I'm figuring that I can't do any worse than the rest of you guys, so here goes: FreeBSD: Pure computing power. I'd considering substituting the word "Unbridled" for the word "Pure" above, but it didn't quite roll off the tounge like I wanted. Unleash the power of your PC with FreeBSD. Of course, Jordan says he wants fewer than six words so you could modify that to say something like: FreeBSD: Find your PC's potential. which is really just my way of trying to say: FreeBSD: Let's see what this baby can *really* do! Man, now I see why they don't let us in the marketing sessions. K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 09:21:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20921 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user17127@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20916 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:21:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 31 Oct 1997 17:26:55 -0000 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:26:55 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Chuck Robey cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Slogans: "Making PC's worth a shite." "FreeBSD. Because it works." "We serve more bytes than McDonalds." Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 09:22:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20959 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:22:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from radford.i-plus.net (root@NS.i-Plus.net [208.24.67.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20948 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:21:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rewt@i-Plus.net) Received: from abyss (pitlord@dead.i-Plus.net [206.99.237.44]) by radford.i-plus.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA23840 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:20:38 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "Troy Settle" From: "Troy Settle" To: Subject: My contribution to the slogan thing... Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:27:54 -0500 Message-ID: <01bce622$526e05f0$2ced63ce@abyss> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk And out of shear boredom (hey, my boxes are running themselves today), I decided to dabble a bit with this slogan. Check out what I've come up with at http://tech.i-Plus.net/FreeBSD/slogan.html g'day, -- Troy Settle -- - -- - -- -- Got 'Net? -- Network Administrator | This space | Explore the world with st@i-Plus.net | for rent | iPlus Internet Services ICQ: 1625842 -- - -- - -- http://www.i-Plus.net -----Original Message----- From: Troy Settle >FreeBSD: A System Worth Operating From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 09:29:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21436 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:29:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from micro.internexus.net (root@internexus.net [206.152.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21431 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:29:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cliff@cliffsworld.com) Received: from c.f.ains (ppp52.internexus.net [206.152.14.243]) by micro.internexus.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA29457 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:28:47 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971031122922.00b473a8@mail.internexus.net> X-Sender: compatriot@mail.internexus.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:29:22 -0500 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: cliff ainsworth III Subject: Re: More Slogans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What about..... "FreeBSD...The choice for the here and now" or "FreeBSD.....yesterday, today and all your tomorrows" later, -cliff /------------------------------------------------------------------------\ PGP v5.0 public key "The M.C.P is the most efficient way of handling what we do, I can't worry about every little user request" Tron-1982 \------------------------------------------------------------------------/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 09:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21531 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21521 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:29:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20502; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:22:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24614; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:22:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:22:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710311722.KAA24614@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Cc: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <3459DEEB.DBA0B1FE@ix.netcom.com> References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> <3459ED5A.9FF16E75@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> <3459DEEB.DBA0B1FE@ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ As long as it's in -chat ] > > 1. bad java support > > 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) > > 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. > > Java is another infantile disorder (see Dijkstra). Have you done anything significant (or petty for that matter) in Java? If not, you're speaking out of ignorance. > It's also from Sun. So are many of the ideas in 4.4BSD, as well as some code. Your point being? > For the first time in history, the entire computing industry is > preparing to embrace a proprietary, unstandardized, unverifiable, > incomplete language. Blech. How do you figure? The entire specifications for the language are (essentially) in the public domain. *Anyone* can implement their own version of it, they just can't call it 'Java' w/out Sun's blessing. (Cygnus is in the process of doing their own version of it.) > If Sun chose to make the regression test suites public (they aren't), > then perhaps the library support would be better for all platforms, not > just FreeBSD. Library support != language. Also, I don't see any regression tests for libc anywhere, yet is seems to be pretty standard on *every* platfrom I've used it on. The problem isn't in their 'library', it's in their Windowing Toolkit, which I consider bigger than their library. The Swing stuff should make this less of a point, since instead of relying on most of the the native OS to support features, they are no only relying on the most basic stuff (at a cost in speed unfortunately, but process doesn't come for free.) > Have you ever seen the Java source distribution? Licensing terms? Yes, and yes. Pretty sane IMHO. I'm only bound for a little while, and I have full access to the all of Sun's 'patents' so that I can't get into trouble for implementing anything. If I had infinite time (or could convince Jeff to take my $$) we would have a JDK for FreeBSD *today*, but neither option is available. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 09:51:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22987 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:51:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov (keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22976 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:51:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@fsl.noaa.gov) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (root@cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by keymaster.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28109; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:50:44 GMT Received: from fsl.noaa.gov (auk.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.124]) by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27079; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:50:42 GMT Message-ID: <345A1A71.42E1DBE0@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:50:42 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/725) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams CC: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com, Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> <3459ED5A.9FF16E75@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> <3459DEEB.DBA0B1FE@ix.netcom.com> <199710311722.KAA24614@rocky.mt.sri.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C53A7B3687A5936DDB4CEE5A" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --------------C53A7B3687A5936DDB4CEE5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If I had infinite time (or could convince Jeff to take my $$) we would > have a JDK for FreeBSD *today*, but neither option is available. :) I'm using the K.White port of JDK1.1 for FreeBSD on FreeBSD-2.2.2: http://www.csi.uottawa.ca/~kwhite/javaport.html It's working out pretty well, but I'm not doing much UI development yet (daemons for data right now). I tried out the Swing demo and it didn't work at all. :-( --Sean --------------C53A7B3687A5936DDB4CEE5A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
If I had infinite time (or could convince Jeff to take my $$) we would
have a JDK for FreeBSD *today*, but neither option is available. :)
I'm using the K.White port of JDK1.1 for FreeBSD on FreeBSD-2.2.2: 
    http://www.csi.uottawa.ca/~kwhite/javaport.html
It's working out pretty well, but I'm not doing much UI development yet (daemons for data right now).  I tried out the Swing demo and it didn't work at all.  :-(

--Sean
  --------------C53A7B3687A5936DDB4CEE5A-- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 09:52:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23128 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:52:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from terror.hungry.com (fn@terror.hungry.com [169.131.1.215]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23120 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@LISP-READER.Hungry.COM) Received: (from fn@localhost) by terror.hungry.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA10965; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:52:02 -0800 (PST) to: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <19971031162340.39717@lemis.com> <19971031085553.53247@right.PCS> From: Faried Nawaz Date: 31 Oct 1997 09:52:02 -0800 In-Reply-To: jlemon@americantv.com's message of 31 Oct 1997 07:19:16 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) writes: On Oct 10, 1997 at 11:38:15PM -0800, Jan Koum wrote: > FreeBSD: Simply FreeBSD > /* Ok, ok, I can't think of anything else :) Isn't this Absolut? Heh, that would be funny. FreeBSD: Absolut Networking. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 09:56:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23423 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:56:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from terror.hungry.com (fn@terror.hungry.com [169.131.1.215]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23415 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:56:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@LISP-READER.Hungry.COM) Received: (from fn@localhost) by terror.hungry.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA11170; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:56:20 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? References: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> From: Faried Nawaz Date: 31 Oct 1997 09:56:20 -0800 In-Reply-To: stephane@cybersurf.net's message of 30 Oct 1997 19:42:14 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk stephane@cybersurf.net (Stephane Raimbault) writes: So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently using twm which comes with XFree86. Depending on the machine I use, twm or ctwm. In the past I've used 9wm, fvwm, and 9wm + some patches I wrote (let me alt-tab between two -- and only two -- windows, etc). For short periods I used wm2, wmx and lwm -- all 9wm derivatives. Right now I'm working on adding virtual root and complete no-mouse support to 9wm...I'll probably switch back to that when done. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 10:12:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24399 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:12:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24375 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:11:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA29068 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:11:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga15-14.ix.netcom.com(204.32.174.110) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029028; Fri Oct 31 12:10:52 1997 Message-ID: <345A1F04.DF0CA0AF@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:10:12 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tee-hee... Whatever gets picked, I hope the drop shadow on a new 'FreeBSD' logo tracks the light source. An eight-grade Linuxer pointed out the current one to me. Ouch. ;) J. Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 10:44:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26850 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:44:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA26842 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:44:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199710311839.NAA20023@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:42:19 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: John Fieber cc: Stephane Raimbault , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, John Fieber wrote: > Once or twice a month it blows up on me but my xsession falls > back to mwm when that happens. (Interesting challenge: can > anyone find a window manager that consumes MORE memory, or has > FASTER memory leaks than mwm?) The early versions of enlightenment were pretty impressive for consumption and leaking. Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net Abusenet: The Misinformation Superhighway From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 10:49:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA27080 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:49:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from chickasaw.gate.net (root@chickasaw.gate.net [198.206.134.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27070 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:49:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from illusion@pop.gate.net) Received: from server1 (classcon@miafl5-21.gate.net [199.227.169.21]) by chickasaw.gate.net (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA163126 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:48:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199710311848.NAA163126@chickasaw.gate.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Mike" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:47:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Help X Windows Manager Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hiya Everyone I have been looking through the FAqs and such and i am triing to find out how to change my windows manager from the default to another .I f anyone has the time I would greatly appreciate any input i can recieve on this matter... Thanx in advance, From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 10:56:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA27494 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from zeus.xtalwind.net (serial.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27489 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:56:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jack@diamond.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (zeus.xtalwind.net [127.0.0.1]) by zeus.xtalwind.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01991; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:58:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:58:13 -0500 (EST) From: jack X-Sender: jack@zeus.xtalwind.net To: Jerry Hicks cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan In-Reply-To: <345A1F04.DF0CA0AF@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Jerry Hicks wrote: > Whatever gets picked, I hope the drop shadow on a new 'FreeBSD' logo > tracks the light source. Just another example of how FreeBSD makes anything possible. > An eight-grade Linuxer pointed out the current > one to me. Ouch. ;) Why are kids so damned observant? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Finger jacko@diamond.xtalwind.net or jack@xtalwind.net http://www.xtalwind.net/~jacko/pubpgp.html #include for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 12:08:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01761 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01754 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:08:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA23603; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:08:02 -0800 (PST) To: "Troy Settle" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: My contribution to the slogan thing... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:27:54 EST." <01bce622$526e05f0$2ced63ce@abyss> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:08:02 -0800 Message-ID: <23599.878328482@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > And out of shear boredom (hey, my boxes are running themselves today), I > decided to dabble a bit with this slogan. Check out what I've come up > with at Hmmm. Cute. Now, can you do one with the daemon's head rotated in a slightly different direction, say backwards? Oh, the accompanying slogan? "Exorcise Windows from your PC". :-) :-) Jordan P.S. This would look especially good as an animated GIF, Chuckie's head slowly spinning like a gyroscope. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 12:51:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04179 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:51:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from homer.supersex.com (homer.supersex.com [209.5.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04170 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leo@homer.supersex.com) Received: (from leo@localhost) by homer.supersex.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA21886; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:50:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971031155033.29351@homer.supersex.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:50:33 -0500 From: Leo Papandreou To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <4479.878249308@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e In-Reply-To: ; from John Fieber on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 09:41:46AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 09:41:46AM -0500, John Fieber wrote: > It seems like an obvious thing to say, but considering how rare > it is these days... > > FreeBSD: Software that actually works > And along these lines, FreeBSD - Its the network, stupid. It worked for whatshisname. > -john > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 13:02:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA04728 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:02:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from homer.supersex.com (homer.supersex.com [209.5.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04722 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:02:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leo@homer.supersex.com) Received: (from leo@localhost) by homer.supersex.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA21925; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:01:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971031160141.17324@homer.supersex.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:01:41 -0500 From: Leo Papandreou To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: <19971031162340.39717@lemis.com> <3459844B.61203582@idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e In-Reply-To: <3459844B.61203582@idt.net>; from Gary T. Corcoran on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 02:10:03AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 02:10:03AM -0500, Gary T. Corcoran wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > This reminds me of something. FreeBSD is the grandson of 4.2BSD, > > right, the operating system which paved the way for the Internet. > > There should be some catchy phrase with that, but so far it's eluded > > me. Something like > > > > FreeBSD - the operating system of the Internet > > > > I'm sure somebody can improve on this. > > > > How about: > > FreeBSD - Powering the Internet > > This targets the use of FreeBSD for network servers too, no? Making networks work. Making networks serve. Serving networks everywhere. Network, net gain. Not just for aging hippies. > > Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 13:35:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06604 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:35:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from burdell.cc.gatech.edu (root@burdell.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.3.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06590 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:34:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from viren@cc.gatech.edu) Received: from cleon.cc.gatech.edu (viren@cleon.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.9.12]) by burdell.cc.gatech.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA14240 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:34:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (from viren@localhost) by cleon.cc.gatech.edu (8.8.4/8.6.9) id QAA25980; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:34:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:34:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199710312134.QAA25980@cleon.cc.gatech.edu> From: "Viren R. Shah" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD slogain X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Go with the simple and subtle approach: FreeBSD: An _Operating_ System emphasizing the word "Operating" in that, without being to blatant about it. Let the reader's imagination work a little. :-) -- Viren R. Shah | viren@rstcorp.com viren@viren.org Reliable Software Technologies | 703.404.9293 (work) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 14:26:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09653 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:26:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09640 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:26:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18219; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA12787; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:27:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:27:12 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > I'm going to show my personal prejudice here, so I am willing to get > that most other free OSs can't compete with. > > With that in mind, .... "Staying Standard with FreeBSD" huh? Hmm... That sounds almost boring. :-) Perhaps something like - Free your computer, free your mind with FreeBSD. - But that's still a bit targetted at the Linux'sh market. Perhaps an appeal to executives constantly tied to stability problems. - Free yourself from your computer with FreeBSD. - or, - FreeBSD: The "free" is for freedom! - Away from the stability idea, more towards use as an Internet server of some sort, - Harness the power of the 'net with FreeBSD! - - Take on the Internet with FreeBSD! - Hmm... I like that one. :) Or, of course, just a simple - You can depend on FreeBSD! - -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 14:55:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11066 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from kirbybq.airnet.net (pm6-180.airnet.net [207.120.51.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11052 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@kirbybq.airnet.net) Received: from kirbybq.airnet.net (kirbybq [10.1.0.7]) by kirbybq.airnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01234; Spammers Suck\! Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:54:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <345A6199.ED23E8E2@kirbybq.airnet.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:54:17 -0600 From: "Kris Kirby, KE4AHR" Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hoek@hwcn.org CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > Free your computer, free your mind with FreeBSD. > Free yourself from your computer with FreeBSD. > FreeBSD: The "free" is for freedom! 'bout "Freedom: FreeBSD" -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 15:36:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12972 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:36:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12941 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:36:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@kalypso.cybercom.net) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA19974 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:35:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:35:06 -0500 (EST) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <19971031150124.02035@micron.mini.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ooh, ooh! I've got one! FreeBSD: This ain't your father's operating system. Oh, but wait. It *is* my father's operating system. Hmmm...maybe that could work too. FreeBSD: Papa would be proud! :-) K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 15:42:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13360 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:42:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13354 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:42:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01207; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:41:17 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:41:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Jonathan Mini cc: Terry Lambert , grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, dcarmich@Mcs.Net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <19971031150124.02035@micron.mini.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Jonathan Mini wrote: >Better yet : Show that things HAVE happened, not that things WILL happen. > > FreeBSD: Where did you go today? FreeBSD: Where did you went last night? /* Sorry, couldn't resist */ -- Yan > >Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: >> > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want. Today." >> > >> > Periods are our friends. >> >> Microsoft asks "where do you want to go today?". >> >> Finally, this burning question can be answered. >> >> FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. >> >> >> Terry Lambert >> terry@lambert.org >> --- >> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >> or previous employers. > >-- >Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions >Software Development P.O. Box 5693, > Eugene, Or. 97405 > > "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 15:42:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13379 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:42:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13373 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:42:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00863; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:40:07 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Terry Lambert cc: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD GUI, revisited (was Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas) In-Reply-To: <199710312325.QAA23834@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk <-- Redirected to -chat from -hackers --> On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: >> > 2. We have not GUI admin interface for FreeBSD, >> > so newbaies will preffer other systems. >> >> This is a win in our side. I find it a plus not needing a gui and >> beeng on the console for the important tasks. As for newbies? Thats why >> there is NT, so they won't bother us. Just kidding. I think you should >> learn the OS from the bottom up. First you learn shell, kernel, file >> system, io, vm, etc and then only you go to X/GUI. I know some "NT Admins" >> who don't even suspect that NT can be used in the DOS mode (or shell, or >> emulator, or whatever you call that scary little rectangular DOS looking >> like prompt). > >The whole point is that you will never get the users who believe you >should *not* have to use the OS, only the *applications* that run >*on* the OS. > >Your requirements list makes it look like you must be a computer scientist >to run a decent OS. Your bar is too high for users. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. > I guess you are right. I did went a bit over the line. But I still think that one should know basics of how computers work in order to use them. Maybe kernel, file system and etc. are not in the basic group. True. But then again the more you know, the more likely you are to take a full advantage of the OS and it's features. Take our sysinstall for example. It requires that you know basics before you use it. Yet, it has options for beginner, medium and advanced installation. -- Yan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 15:55:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14083 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:55:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14071 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:55:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA25172; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:53:09 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu (Jonathan Mini), grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, dcarmich@Mcs.Net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:49:31 GMT." <199710312249.PAA20311@usr01.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:53:09 -0800 Message-ID: <25169.878341989@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Redirected yet again to -chat. Grrrr! Either learn to read mail headers, Terry, or we'll take away your posting license! :-)] > FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. Hmmmm. I rather like this one, I just wonder if Microsoft has trademarked the verb "go" or something. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 16:07:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14611 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:07:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@1Cust153.tnt1.manassas.va.da.uu.net [153.37.113.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14600 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:07:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) id TAA01570; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:06:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971031190658.35264@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:06:58 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? Reply-To: hcremean@vt.edu References: <8655.878286069@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <8655.878286069@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 12:21:09AM -0800 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 12:21:09AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I use fvwm2, and I've noticed most of my (local) friends do too. Dunno > > what most use here on the list, they're too far away to visit! > > I think you'll find a lot of fvwm / fvwm2 users on this list, actually. :) > I still use good 'old fvwm, myself. It does everything I need and has > an easy-to-use virtual desktop interface, which is about 90% of what I > use a WM for. I use and like AfterStep; I was turned on to it by some of my friends on IRC, and it looks and works better than fvwm1 IMO. > Enlightenment is pretty visual, but I can't imagine actually using it > in everyday life. It's more one of those window managers that you > simply stand back and admire, like a painting. It doesn't have to > have any actual functional purpose. :-) Agreed; I've been a bit afraid to try Enlightenment since I hear it's still quite buggy. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac Ee34/1/36 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 16:31:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15758 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15753 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:31:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25124; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:32:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711010032.QAA25124@implode.root.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:53:09 PST." <25169.878341989@time.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:32:19 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >[Redirected yet again to -chat. Grrrr! Either learn to read mail > headers, Terry, or we'll take away your posting license! :-)] > >> FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. > >Hmmmm. I rather like this one, I just wonder if Microsoft has >trademarked the verb "go" or something. :) Actually, I like it too. Before selecting it, it might be prudent to get a lawyer's opinion on if it violates their trademark (or is it servicemark?). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 16:38:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16244 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:38:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16238 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA29815; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:07:28 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971101110728.09058@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:07:28 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Marco Molteni Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Jan Koum Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Marco Molteni on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 03:38:59PM +0100 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 03:38:59PM +0100, Marco Molteni wrote: > On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Jan Koum wrote: > >> On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: >> >>> This reminds me of something. FreeBSD is the grandson of 4.2BSD, >>> right, the operating system which paved the way for the Internet. >>> There should be some catchy phrase with that, but so far it's >>> eluded me. Something like >>> >>> FreeBSD - the operating system of the Internet >>> >>> I'm sure somebody can improve on this. >> >> FreeBSD: from the makers of Internet > > I *love* these two, kudos to Greg and Jan. Thanks. The others don't seem to have paid much attention to it. But overnight this variant occurred to me: FreeBSD: The original Internet Operating System. Thoughts? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 16:54:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA17260 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:54:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17230 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:54:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-88.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.88]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA26980 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:53:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA08373 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:26:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199710312326.RAA08373@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-reply-to: Message from "Pedro Giffuni S." of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:13:57 GMT." <3459D995.267AE7E3@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:26:56 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Pedro Giffuni S. writes: > > Contrary to the group I would like something more conservative: > > FreeBSD: art, science and tradition beyond 2000. > > By year 2000, you would a new slogan: "FreeBSD: art, science and tradition" is pretty good without the 2000 reference. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 17:02:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17968 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:02:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17957 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:02:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA29882; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:31:48 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971101113148.49316@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:31:48 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: FW: Suspicions confirmed!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I got this from a friend in Washington DC, but I can't vouch for its accuracy :-) Greg From: Rosemary Main[SMTP:rosemary.main@lmco.com] > Sent: Friday, October 31, 1997 9:08 AM > > -----Original Message----- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Microsoft Addresses Justice Department Accusations REDMOND, Wash. - Oct. 22, 1997 -- In direct response to accusations made by the Department of Justice, the Microsoft Corp. announced today that it will be acquiring the federal government of the United States of America for an undisclosed sum. "It's actually a logical extension of our planned growth", said Microsoft chairman Bill Gates, "It really is going to be a positive arrangement for everyone". Microsoft representatives held a briefing in the oval office of the White House with U.S. President Bill Clinton, and assured members of the press that changes will be "minimal". The United States will be managed as a wholly owned division of Microsoft. An initial public offering is planned for July of next year, and the federal government is expected to be profitable by "Q4 1999 at latest", according to Microsoft president Steve Ballmer. In a related announcement, Bill Clinton stated that he had "willingly and enthusiastically" accepted a position as a vice president with Microsoft, and will continue to manage the United States government, reporting directly to Bill Gates. When asked how it felt to give up the mantle of executive authority to Gates, Clinton smiled and referred to it as "a relief". He went on to say that Gates has a "proven track record", and that U.S. citizens should offer Gates their "full support and confidence". Clinton will reportedly be earning several times the $200,000 annually he has earned as U.S. president, in his new role at Microsoft. Gates dismissed a suggestion that the U.S. Capitol be move to Redmond as "silly", though did say that he would make executive decisions for the U.S. government from his existing office at Microsoft headquarters. Gates indicated that the House and Senate would "of course" be abolished. "Microsoft isn't a democracy", he observed, "and look how well we're doing". When asked if the rumored attendant acquisition of Canada was proceeding, Gates said, "We don't deny that discussions are taking place". Microsoft representatives closed the conference by stating that United States citizens will be able to expect lower taxes, increases in government services and discounts on all Microsoft products. About Microsoft....... Founded in 1975, Microsoft (NASDAQ "MSFT") is the worldwide leader in software for personal computers, and democratic government. The company offers a wide range of products and services for public, business and personal use, each designed with the mission of making it easier and more enjoyable for people to take advantage of the full power of personal computing and free society every day. About the United States....... Founded in 1789, the United States of America is the most successful nation in the history of the world, and has been a beacon of democracy and opportunity for over 200 years. Headquartered in Washington, D.C., the United States is a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 17:22:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19087 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:22:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19079 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:22:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA00391; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:26:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dcarmich) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199711010026.SAA00391@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: Trademark problems w/Cisco with that one In-Reply-To: <19971101110728.09058@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 1, 97 11:07:28 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:26:08 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cisco might raise a hissy-fit about that one because their router operating system is called IOS, Internetwork Operating System. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 17:44:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20269 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:44:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20255 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA00433; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:41:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dcarmich) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199711010041.SAA00433@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: An idea for a shirt stemming from the BSD "McKusick does Oz" shirt To: grog@lemis.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:41:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Front: Picture of a big daemon with a guitar (or better yet, a bassoon :-) around its neck plugged into a tower housing labelled with "Marshall" (for the Marshall guitar amplifier company, not Mr. McKusick) and two large stacked speaker cabinets with 4 x 12" woofers. Words: FreeBSD/LEMIS world domination tour '97 "Throw it as far as you can". Back: (large font) TOUR DATES: 1998: Echunga 1999: Adelaide Hills 2000: South Australia 2001: Australia 2002: The world 2003: CANCELLED Segmentation fault (core dumped) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 18:16:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA21973 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:16:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21965 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00529; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:20:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dcarmich) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199711010120.TAA00529@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: *THE* rock 'n roll FreeBSD shirt To: lsmith@lr.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:20:33 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Front: (Some political slogans, take out if you want) You're not well, Novell! Here's mud in your eye, BSDI! Microslothies, meet your match! (Big BSD daemon with 1960s attire holding a Fender guitar upside down connected to a large Marshall full guitar amplifier stack) Back: Live free or die() (big BSD daemon) FreeBSD World Tour '97 Musicians: David Greenman - lead guitar, vocals Jordan Hubbard - bass guitar Garrett Wollman - keyboards Satoshi Asami - drums and a cast of thousands...... Rockin' and rollin' all night! From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 18:20:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22158 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:20:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22125 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:20:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00545 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:23:50 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dcarmich) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199711010123.TAA00545@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: Another idea To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:23:50 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Front: David Nugent and the Daemons LIVE! (picture of big BSD daemon with a Fender guitar connected to a huge stack) Back: Rockin' and rollin' all night! From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 18:34:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23019 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:34:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au [130.194.166.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23013 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:34:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au) Received: from localhost (graeme@localhost) by babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA28357; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:36:40 +1100 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:36:39 +1100 (EST) From: Graeme Cross Reply-To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au To: Stephane Raimbault cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> Message-ID: X-Attribution: gjc X-No-Archive: yes X-No-Junk-Mail: Do not send me junk mail under any circumstances X-PGP-Key-ID: 702DB549 X-URI: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > using twm which comes with XFree86. I actually use a variety, and I'm sure I am not alone: AfterStep The home machine - My preferred window manager: very flexible and finally seems to be stable! fvwm The work machines - Consistent, simple, configurable, and once you have learnt the .fvwmrc file, you can configure all of fvwm's descendents (AfterStep, fvwm2, fvwm95, etc) wm2 The 16MB laptop - wm2 is a 9wm descendant: *very* simple, looks great, lean on memory use Cheers Graeme - -- Graeme Cross Water Studies Centre, Monash University http://www.wsc.monash.edu.au/~graeme/ Random thought #63 Booze is the answer. I don't remember the question. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv Comment: Auto-signed by PPG (v1.01) (the PGP/PINE gateway) iQB1AwUBNFqVsWAiycRwLbVJAQGeRgL9GptGYY/K85+jr5J1yClzKVD/wEmeagvD 9a5w5v2NE13aKaH7/zZ9qolwSQb+yH3GbuHTENe6qzicys627LYluW9aiBcmpcsT 9WQE5eX8lsT1eastg5QK/gp8xep3F2mV =bJQL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 18:46:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23538 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:46:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23530 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:46:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.inteng.com ([168.176.3.47]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA14454; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:49:24 +0500 Message-ID: <345A9643.25B375AB@asme.org> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 02:38:59 +0000 From: "Pedro Giffuni S." Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" CC: Ed Hudson , chat@freebsd.org, elh@spnet.com Subject: Re: Operating system stability References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (redirected to chat. It was sort of exagerated to send this to hackers and bugs! ) Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > Are there any statistics to support the claim that FreeBSD is one of the > worlds most stable Operating Systems? I don't think so, FreeBSD is a young project: There are some boxes that are have worked faithfully since long before (notably VM/CMS, VMS, and probably Cray boxes) that will run fine until year 2000. Many times this "uptime" records are the result of the longetivity of their system maintainers :-). Pedro. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 18:58:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23902 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (root@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23897 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:58:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@lakewood.com) Received: from i4got.lakewood.com (ppp36.monmouth.com [205.164.220.68]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03750; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:39:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by i4got.lakewood.com id VAA08286 (8.8.5/IDA-1.6); Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:43:26 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Pechter Message-ID: <199711010243.VAA08286@i4got.lakewood.com> Subject: Re: Is this emulator of interest to FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199711010017.SAA08525@nospam.hiwaay.net> from "dkelly@hiwaay.net" at "Oct 31, 97 06:17:27 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:43:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-to: pechter@lakewood.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Don Wilde said: > > > Sinclair ZX??? Boyohboy, next we'll emulate MITS Altairs and be able to > > > run Billyboy's original BASIC if we can read the paper tape... > > > > > The PDP/11 emulator works really well though :-). > > That could be fun if it included and ancient original BSD for the > PDP-11! Not yet... it's got v7 though. Wanna rewrite the emulator for Xwindows to include a full 11/70 front panel. (There's a PDP8 emulator complete with toggle switches. It runs great on FreeBSD and it even emulates a 300 baud all caps teletype in an Xterm... r...e...a...l...s..l...o...w...l..y. I could even imagine the clunking noises). > > And the MITS emulation would be fun too, with a GUI front end complete > with blinking lights and toggle switches. :-) > > To complete the list we also need the (I can't remember its name!) > Rockwell 6502 board. AIM-65 I believe... or was it the KIM-65 > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net > ===================================================================== > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 | 732-389-3592 pechter@lakewood.com | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. This msg brought to you by the letters PDP and the number 11. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 19:06:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24369 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:06:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from teel.info-noire.com (slpp-28.interlinx.qc.ca [207.134.144.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24358 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:06:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@teel.info-noire.com) Received: from localhost (alex@localhost) by teel.info-noire.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11575 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:11:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:11:16 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Boisvert Reply-To: Alex Boisvert To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Slogan In-Reply-To: <01bce622$526e05f0$2ced63ce@abyss> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Okay, I'll try a few new slogans with the "new" network server orientation: ----- Power + Stability = FreeBSD Network Server (for math-oriented people) FreeBSD: Server Solutions for a Small Budget. (IBM-like slogan) FreeBSD: Building Better Network Servers. (same form as old slogan) FreeBSD: Power and Stability for Network Servers. (too many words?) FreeBSD: More Power Within Your PC. (too vague?) ... I actually found many more but chose these ones for RFC. Alex --- FreeBSD: Decouvrez la puissance de votre PC! www.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 19:21:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25158 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25150 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:21:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00384; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:47:53 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711010317.NAA00384@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jonathan Mini cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:52:26 -0800." <19971031145226.40191@micron.mini.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 13:47:51 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (back where this discussion should have stayed) > We could do a spin off of that certain credit card ad : > > FreeBSD: It's where you want to be. Or another one running locally: "FreeBSD, it's the future of software" mike From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 19:27:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25412 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:27:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25406 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:27:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00555; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:52:50 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711010322.NAA00555@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Chuck Robey , Stephane Raimbault , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:21:09 -0800." <8655.878286069@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 13:52:50 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I use fvwm2, and I've noticed most of my (local) friends do too. Dunno > > what most use here on the list, they're too far away to visit! > > I think you'll find a lot of fvwm / fvwm2 users on this list, actually. :) > I still use good 'old fvwm, myself. It does everything I need and has > an easy-to-use virtual desktop interface, which is about 90% of what I > use a WM for. Hmm, I use fvmw95 on my desktops because the decorations are conveiently small, and the icon bar pissess off when I don't want it. OTOH, I use twm on my laptop because it places all its decorations along *one* edge of the window, and when you are squeezed for desktop space this lets you haul some back. Also I don't have enough memory on the laptop to make multiple virtual screens worthwhile 8) mike From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 19:30:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25577 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic20.pm04.sf1.best.com [206.184.197.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25572 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:30:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id TAA03097; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:30:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971031193041.41631@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:30:41 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Douglas Carmichael Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: *THE* rock 'n roll FreeBSD shirt Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199711010120.TAA00529@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199711010120.TAA00529@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net>; from Douglas Carmichael on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 07:20:33PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 07:20:33PM -0600, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > Front: > (Some political slogans, take out if you want) > You're not well, Novell! > Here's mud in your eye, BSDI! > Microslothies, meet your match! I prefer FreeBSD: Another day closer to a micro$oft free world > > (Big BSD daemon with 1960s attire holding a Fender guitar upside down > connected to a large Marshall full guitar amplifier stack) > YEA!!! Chuck as Jimi Hendrix !! This appeals to the aging hippie in me > Back: > Live free or die() New Hampshire had this first Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 20:17:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28131 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:17:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28124 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:17:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA00476; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:47:11 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971101144710.52462@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:47:10 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Chuck Robey Cc: Stephane Raimbault , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? References: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:12:55PM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:12:55PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > >> So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently >> using twm which comes with XFree86. > > I use fvwm2, and I've noticed most of my (local) friends do too. Dunno > what most use here on the list, they're too far away to visit! > > Most of the newer WM's out there are modifications (in some form) of fvwm. I use fvwm2 as well. It's also the window manager that I describe in detail in the second edition of "The Complete FreeBSD". Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 20:18:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28192 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:18:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic20.pm04.sf1.best.com [206.184.197.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28184 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:18:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA03374; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:17:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971031201749.09358@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:17:49 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <19971030200614.39160@micron.mini.net> <199710312312.QAA22691@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199710312312.QAA22691@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:12:23PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:12:23PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want to do today" > > Too ad FreeBSD doesn't have a budget for attack ads... 8-). > > Start the "Start Me Up..." commercial. > > 5 seconds in, back camera out: it's running on a Windows 95 > box in a teeny little 640x480 window. > > Volume down on "Start me up..." > > stand: "Doesn't it get any bigger than that?" > sit: "I'd have to drop the screen resoloution" > stand: "well?" > > They go off to find the "display properties". > > The one in back is pointing and and giving directions to the > one sitting in front. It's obvious that two people have a > hard time doing this. > > stand: "800x600?" > sit: "640x480..." > stand: "you sure?" > sit: Well, we can try the other one if it doesn't work..." > > You must reboot you computer for the changes to take effect. > > stand: "You have to reboot?" > sit: "Yeah... hang on..." > > They click 'OK'; the commercial is about to repeat a > "Start Me Up..", but an "end task?" comes up, and they > have to click "OK"... > > stand: "I thought it was multitasking?" > sit: > > The first "Start Me Up..." hits just as he click "OK"... > > stand: > sit: "Shut me down... Shut me down... You make a grown > man cryyyy-yyyy..." > > Turn roller chair to FreeBSD box... > > Run a video trailer... also tiny. > > Control-minus, Control-minus, Control-minus -- it's now full > screen. > > View from FreeBSD monitor angle, with Windows 95 in the > background "It's now Safe to Turn off your Computer...", > In foregroung, "stand" looks surprised. > > Switch back to FreeBSD screen "beep, you have mail"... > > ... Etc. 8-). > Fade to black... Title & V/O - FreeBSD: Go do something today. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 20:35:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29166 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:35:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29158 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:35:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00770 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:34:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:34:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: IDE Drive Economy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Someone earlier mentioned that they had found an ide drive which they wanted a ide to scsi converter. I am particualrily curious as to if anybody in this community would be interested in an IDE drive controller able to handle >4 drives (not in master/slave configuration) using completely physically seperate interfaces. I know that scsi is supposed to be better, but are SCSI drives (I mean the physical disk hardware) of higher quality or is it just the controller architecture that is deficient. It is unlikely that home users will just suddenly start buying mass quantities of scsi interface drives, so they will probably continue to be inproportionately expensive. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 20:41:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29726 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:41:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29721 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:41:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA24743; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:39:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:39:35 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Greg Lehey cc: Stephane Raimbault , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <19971101144710.52462@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:12:55PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > > > >> So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > >> using twm which comes with XFree86. > > > > I use fvwm2, and I've noticed most of my (local) friends do too. Dunno > > what most use here on the list, they're too far away to visit! > > > > Most of the newer WM's out there are modifications (in some form) of fvwm. > > I use fvwm2 as well. It's also the window manager that I describe in > detail in the second edition of "The Complete FreeBSD". Well, I'm putting it off a little while, but it sure does look like afterstep is getting pretty close to being ready for prime time. I like functionality, fvwm2 had it in spades, but afterstep is getting very close. > > Greg > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 20:53:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00257 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:53:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00247 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:52:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00973; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:15:20 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711010445.PAA00973@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, tore@yes.no Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:56:52 BST." <199710310856.JAA09939@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 15:15:19 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > He is usually quite good at this kind of stuff, but said he needed a > mission statement to be able to give it a go. So that's what "mission statements" are about? > So - what image do we want FreeBSD to project? > > My priorities are > * Professional > * Fast > * Powerful > > in that order. I'd go with that. It's hard to come up with a simple phrase that defines the benefit(s) of openness though. > Can somebody else come up with a better definition of what we want to > communicate? Hmm, mission statement. "The FreeBSD project delivers state-of-the-art, high-reliability standards-friendly operating system technology and timely support to the entire spectrum of computing professionals." ? mike From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 20:55:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00365 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from kevin.sunshine.net (pme36.sunshine.net [204.191.204.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00358 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by kevin.sunshine.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00433; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:54:51 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: kevin.sunshine.net: cagey owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:54:15 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Eliuk X-Sender: cagey@kevin.sunshine.net Reply-To: Kevin Eliuk To: Eivind Eklund cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, tore@yes.no Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: <199710310856.JAA09939@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > So - what image do we want FreeBSD to project? > My priorities are > * Professional > * Fast > * Powerful > in that order. > Can somebody else come up with a better definition of what we want to > communicate? Why repeat what has already been said :) [handbook4.html#4] Contributed by Jordan K. Hubbard ... We believe that our first and foremost "mission" is to provide code to any and all comers, and for whatever purpose, so that the code gets the widest possible use and provides the widest possible benefit. This is, I believe, one of the most fundamental goals of Free Software and one that we enthusiastically support. ... I appreciate the history of BSD ... I like the commitment to open source. I think in order to make it attractive to business ... , , /( )` \ \___ / | /- _ `-/ ' (/\/ \ \ /\ / / | ` \ O O ) / | `-^--'`< ' FreeBSD - Open For Business (_.) _ ) / `.___/` / `-----' / B_S_D __8/ __ \ '===`=====O)()8() \) / Unlocking a PC's power potential `-`8'`.__,' \ | | \ / /\ ______( (_ / \______/ ,' ,-----' | `--{__________) -- =| Regards, =| FreeBSD ==> http://www.FreeBSD.org =| Kevin G. Eliuk =| "Free at last, free at last, ...." British Columbia *BSD User Directory ==> http://www.cynic.net From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 21:16:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01313 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:16:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01260 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:15:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id AAA08464; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:11:21 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199711010511.AAA08464@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <19971101144710.52462@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 1, 97 02:47:10 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:10:55 -0500 (EST) Cc: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu, stephane@cybersurf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey said: > On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:12:55PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: > > > >> So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > >> using twm which comes with XFree86. > > > > I use fvwm2, and I've noticed most of my (local) friends do too. Dunno > > what most use here on the list, they're too far away to visit! > > > > Most of the newer WM's out there are modifications (in some form) of fvwm. > > I use fvwm2 as well. It's also the window manager that I describe in > detail in the second edition of "The Complete FreeBSD". > I also agree with fvwm2 as a suggestion (I generally like fvwm*.) Other interesting WM's (IMO) are ctwm and gwm. Gwm is more more of a curiosity to me, but some likely really like it. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 21:17:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01352 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:17:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01347 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:16:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA00990; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:45:11 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971101154510.10913@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:45:10 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu, stephane@cybersurf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? References: <19971101144710.52462@lemis.com> <199711010511.AAA08464@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711010511.AAA08464@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 12:10:55AM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 12:10:55AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Greg Lehey said: >> On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:12:55PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: >>> On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Stephane Raimbault wrote: >>> >>>> So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently >>>> using twm which comes with XFree86. >>> >>> I use fvwm2, and I've noticed most of my (local) friends do too. Dunno >>> what most use here on the list, they're too far away to visit! >>> >>> Most of the newer WM's out there are modifications (in some form) of fvwm. >> >> I use fvwm2 as well. It's also the window manager that I describe in >> detail in the second edition of "The Complete FreeBSD". > > I also agree with fvwm2 as a suggestion (I generally like fvwm*.) Other > interesting WM's (IMO) are ctwm and gwm. Gwm is more more of a curiosity > to me, but some likely really like it. Yes, there are plenty of interesting wms, and I thought a lot before choosing it. A good alternative would be something like fvwm95, but I decided that if I was going to plunge newbies into FreeBSD, I didn't want to make it look like Windoze 95%. The main reason for the chapter was to give enough perspective to make it interesting for people to install X and do something halfway interesting with it. *Then*, if they have any curiosity, they'll go and do their own thing (and probably think me strange for the defaults I suggested :-) Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 21:28:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01967 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01959 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:28:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id AAA09128; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:25:53 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199711010525.AAA09128@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <19971101154510.10913@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 1, 97 03:45:10 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:25:53 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, chuckr@Glue.umd.edu, stephane@cybersurf.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey said: > > Yes, there are plenty of interesting wms, and I thought a lot before > choosing it. A good alternative would be something like fvwm95, but I > decided that if I was going to plunge newbies into FreeBSD, I didn't > want to make it look like Windoze 95%. The main reason for the > chapter was to give enough perspective to make it interesting for > people to install X and do something halfway interesting with it. > *Then*, if they have any curiosity, they'll go and do their own thing > (and probably think me strange for the defaults I suggested :-) > I agree -- the WM is relatively easy to change for a beginner (once someone has created a work environment, the window manager becomes more embedded on ones system.) I think that in your book, directing someone to something that *works* is the best thing. It is probably a very good strategy to distinguish FBSD from W95. As I know that you know one of the distinguishing things about X is that you can really change the look and feel significantly. X is hyper-flexible. All of the Free U**X systems are like a vast stack of Christmas presents to open. Too many toys, and eventually one settles on a few of the toys that one likes!!! There aren't very many really bad choices :-). -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 21:51:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02724 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02714 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:51:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA01424; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:20:40 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971101162039.65195@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:20:39 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? References: <19971101154510.10913@lemis.com> <199711010525.AAA09128@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711010525.AAA09128@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 12:25:53AM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 12:25:53AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Greg Lehey said: >> >> Yes, there are plenty of interesting wms, and I thought a lot before >> choosing it. A good alternative would be something like fvwm95, but I >> decided that if I was going to plunge newbies into FreeBSD, I didn't >> want to make it look like Windoze 95%. The main reason for the >> chapter was to give enough perspective to make it interesting for >> people to install X and do something halfway interesting with it. >> *Then*, if they have any curiosity, they'll go and do their own thing >> (and probably think me strange for the defaults I suggested :-) > > I agree -- the WM is relatively easy to change for a beginner (once > someone has created a work environment, the window manager becomes > more embedded on ones system.) I think that in your book, directing > someone to something that *works* is the best thing. That was exactly my consideration. After looking at my configuration, which has "just growed" over the last 7 years or so, I discovered an amazing amount of grunge and stuff that didn't work, but which I never tried to use. I hope I have it mostly cleaned up now :-) But I say that in the chapter, and point out that it's only a starting point. > It is probably a very good strategy to distinguish FBSD from W95. As > I know that you know one of the distinguishing things about X is > that you can really change the look and feel significantly. X is > hyper-flexible. Exactly. If I had given fvwm95, the users would probably never have thought to change anything. > All of the Free U**X systems are like a vast stack of Christmas presents > to open. Too many toys, and eventually one settles on a few of the toys > that one likes!!! There aren't very many really bad choices :-). Right. I wish I had more time to play with these things. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 23:20:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05118 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:20:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from radford.i-plus.net (NS.i-Plus.net [208.24.67.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05112 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:20:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rewt@i-Plus.net) Received: from abyss (pitlord@dead.i-Plus.net [206.99.237.44]) by radford.i-plus.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA07515; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:18:59 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "Troy Settle" From: "Troy Settle" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Subject: Re: My contribution to the slogan thing... Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:26:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01bce697$73471620$2ced63ce@abyss> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK... you asked for it. Again, that URL is http://tech.i-Plus.net/FreeBSD/slogan.html -- Troy Settle -- - -- - -- -- Got 'Net? -- Network Administrator | This space | Explore the world with st@i-Plus.net | for rent | iPlus Internet Services ICQ: 1625842 -- - -- - -- http://www.i-Plus.net -----Original Message----- From: Jordan K. Hubbard >> And out of shear boredom (hey, my boxes are running themselves today), I >> decided to dabble a bit with this slogan. Check out what I've come up >> with at > >Hmmm. Cute. Now, can you do one with the daemon's head rotated in >a slightly different direction, say backwards? Oh, the accompanying slogan? >"Exorcise Windows from your PC". :-) :-) > > Jordan > >P.S. This would look especially good as an animated GIF, Chuckie's >head slowly spinning like a gyroscope. > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 23:28:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05391 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:28:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA05379 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 3052 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Nov 1997 07:41:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19971101084114.09416@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:41:14 +0100 From: braukmann@tse-online.de To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <25169.878341989@time.cdrom.com> <199711010032.QAA25124@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary=8fyVHJSlD6z0c4W1 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199711010032.QAA25124@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 04:32:19PM -0800 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --8fyVHJSlD6z0c4W1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. This one is pretty cool, ... but > Actually, I like it too. Before selecting it, it might be prudent to get > a lawyer's opinion on if it violates their trademark (or is it servicemark?). I have to second this. -ab -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B --8fyVHJSlD6z0c4W1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNFrdGnKj4VjLq0fFAQGbCwP/dDhtUJ+ZIord9bI9HcF7/b723qJ30Kby T2f2VUuY9oU5UwLW1koK+zMfyA9mpkMr7twyvACXstYEqhXwP4JyA9k+81KA7AbO aqQwp52u5R211mJPRxBfjN8+aP1lNKKCLTobujZ8vXZL4hPttI3c74CW8VD9JYDc BwaiT13vLJE= =JMrg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8fyVHJSlD6z0c4W1-- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 23:33:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05539 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:33:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from radford.i-plus.net (NS.i-Plus.net [208.24.67.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05534 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:33:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rewt@i-Plus.net) Received: from abyss (pitlord@dead.i-Plus.net [206.99.237.44]) by radford.i-plus.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA07636 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:31:49 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "Troy Settle" From: "Troy Settle" To: "(ML) FreeBSD Chat" Subject: another slogan thingie Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:39:10 -0500 Message-ID: <01bce699$3e3fe1d0$2ced63ce@abyss> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD: Over 1 Million Networks Served -- Troy Settle -- - -- - -- -- Got 'Net? -- Network Administrator | This space | Explore the world with st@i-Plus.net | for rent | iPlus Internet Services ICQ: 1625842 -- - -- - -- http://www.i-Plus.net From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 23:45:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05973 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05966 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:45:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA06902; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:42:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:42:07 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Douglas Carmichael cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademark problems w/Cisco with that one In-Reply-To: <199711010026.SAA00391@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry, I have to ;) Would that be a "hissy fit" or a "HSSI fit"? On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > Cisco might raise a hissy-fit about that one because their router operating > system is called IOS, Internetwork Operating System. > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Oct 31 23:48:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06084 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:48:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06079 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:48:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA09156; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:18:15 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971101181814.29919@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:18:14 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Douglas Carmichael Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An idea for a shirt stemming from the BSD "McKusick does Oz" shirt References: <199711010041.SAA00433@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711010041.SAA00433@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net>; from Douglas Carmichael on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 06:41:58PM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 06:41:58PM -0600, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > Front: > Picture of a big daemon with a guitar (or better yet, a bassoon :-) Of course :-) > around its neck plugged into a tower housing labelled with "Marshall" > (for the Marshall guitar amplifier company, not Mr. McKusick) > and two large stacked speaker cabinets with 4 x 12" woofers. > Words: > FreeBSD/LEMIS world domination tour '97 > "Throw it as far as you can". > Back: > (large font) > > TOUR DATES: > 1998: Echunga > 1999: Adelaide Hills > 2000: South Australia > 2001: Australia > 2002: The world > 2003: CANCELLED > Segmentation fault (core dumped) You've obviously got too much time on your hands :-) I still don't see what brings me this honour. For those who are wondering what all this is about, Douglas has obviously been fingering me and browsing in my home page--mainly the former. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 00:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06603 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:01:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06598 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:01:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA10724; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:31:33 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971101183132.49729@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:31:32 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Troy Settle Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: My contribution to the slogan thing... References: <01bce697$73471620$2ced63ce@abyss> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <01bce697$73471620$2ced63ce@abyss>; from Troy Settle on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 02:26:20AM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 02:26:20AM -0500, Troy Settle wrote: > OK... you asked for it. Again, that URL is > > http://tech.i-Plus.net/FreeBSD/slogan.html Hmm. He did say "slowly". Greg > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordan K. Hubbard > >>> And out of shear boredom (hey, my boxes are running themselves today), > I >>> decided to dabble a bit with this slogan. Check out what I've come up >>> with at >> >> Hmmm. Cute. Now, can you do one with the daemon's head rotated in >> a slightly different direction, say backwards? Oh, the accompanying > slogan? >> "Exorcise Windows from your PC". :-) :-) >> >> Jordan >> >> P.S. This would look especially good as an animated GIF, Chuckie's >> head slowly spinning like a gyroscope. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 00:03:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06714 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:03:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from micro.internexus.net (root@internexus.net [206.152.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06689 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:03:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cliff@cliffsworld.com) Received: from c.f.ains (ppp52.internexus.net [206.152.14.243]) by micro.internexus.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id DAA22014 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:02:48 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971101030324.006d3b78@mail.internexus.net> X-Sender: compatriot@mail.internexus.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 03:03:24 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: cliff ainsworth III Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <19971031201749.09358@mooseriver.com> References: <199710312312.QAA22691@usr01.primenet.com> <19971030200614.39160@micron.mini.net> <199710312312.QAA22691@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk That posting was quite possibly the funniest thing I've read in a long time........ >> Too bad FreeBSD doesn't have a budget for attack ads... 8-). As long as we are fantasizing. There is one way around the big budget thing. If we only had a RealPlayer 5.0 server :( With the streaming flash animation and sound it could be done rather cheaply. Its a perfect script though. I could see it being funnier then the IBM "Hadley downloaded a virus off the web" commercial that Ogilvey and Mathers did. Especially if it is done in that same style. And if we use the "shut me down" song I think we don't have to pay royalties because it is a parody. Don't quote me on that. "Hadley said it was multitasking" happy halloween all :[ -cliff /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\ PGP v5.0 public key "Those of you that renounce this superstitious and hysterical belief in users will be eligible to join the Warrior Elite of the M.C.P" Tron-1982 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 01:19:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09865 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:19:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@1Cust75.tnt1.manassas.va.da.uu.net [153.37.113.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09859 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:19:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) id EAA00448; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 04:18:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971101041844.31170@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 04:18:44 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IDE Drive Economy Reply-To: hcremean@vt.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Jamil J. Weatherbee on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 08:34:59PM -0800 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 08:34:59PM -0800, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > I know that scsi is supposed > to be better, but are SCSI drives (I mean the physical disk hardware) of > higher quality or is it just the controller architecture that is > deficient. IDE is a rather simple command set based on the old Western Digital WD1003-WA2 and WD1007 interfaces; the first card is the original 1985 PC-AT MFM controller card! The entire point of IDE was to make a cheap drive with integrated controller components that would work "out of the box" with an AT BIOS; it was developed by Compaq with help from WDC, Imprimis and Conner in 1987-1988. IDE shares many of the WD1003's wins (the cylinder number is 16-bit, and the sector number is 8-bit, giving a max geometry of 65536 cylinders*16 heads*256 sectors==128 GB) and losses (not good for multitasking since all accesses have to be serialised, and the interface is rather piggish, even with DMA support). SCSI, on the other hand, is more robust and handles multi-tasking environments more adeptly; it started in the early 1980s as SASI (Shugart Associates Systems Interface), and was codified around 1986 as SCSI-1. SCSI has its own command language, and can have multiple devices doing things at once, unlike IDE where you can only talk to one drive at once. Also, the newest versions of SCSI can outdo IDE in raw speed, which is partially due to the smarter bus architecture. To top it off, SCSI can handle more devices (7 for narrow, 15 for wide) at once, and isn't limited to hard drives, unlike IDE, which was like that until ATAPI came out (ATAPI is really just a SCSI-style protocol grafted onto the IDE/WD1003 register structure, hence the many comments here about IDE Zip drives just being SCSI devices with different firmware.) As for the drives, well, it depends. Most IDE drives these days are built just as well as their SCSI counterparts, though there are some SCSI-only drives that are notably wonky (the Quantum Grand Prix comes to mind; I've heard quite a few horror stories about that drive line), and a few drives that are just plain junk (most of the Maxtor/MiniScribe 7000 series, IDE or SCSI, and ESPECIALLY the 7120). FWIW, the only real difference between a SCSI drive and an IDE drive these days is the interface chip and the firmware. > It is unlikely that home users will just suddenly start buying > mass quantities of scsi interface drives, so they will probably continue > to be inproportionately expensive. Well, the Mac did help with that somewhat. I noticed that when Apple started running aground, the prices of SCSI stuff went way up (higher than what they had been). Apple cheated in some newer Macs, tho, and used IDE; I forget which ones exactly. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac Ee34/1/36 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 03:47:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA16346 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA16341 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:47:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA02961; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:47:20 -0800 (PST) To: "Troy Settle" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: My contribution to the slogan thing... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 02:26:20 EST." <01bce697$73471620$2ced63ce@abyss> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 03:47:20 -0800 Message-ID: <2957.878384840@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > OK... you asked for it. Again, that URL is > > http://tech.i-Plus.net/FreeBSD/slogan.html Ooh, that's very cute! But it's also "Windows from", not "Windows in". :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 03:54:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA16502 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:54:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA16497 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:54:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA03044; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:54:31 -0800 (PST) To: cliff ainsworth III cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 03:03:24 EST." <3.0.3.32.19971101030324.006d3b78@mail.internexus.net> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 03:54:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3040.878385271@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As long as we are fantasizing. There is one way around the big budget > thing. If we only had a RealPlayer 5.0 server :( For FreeBSD? We do. Go visit http://www.kmud.org and click on the banner for a local radio station's live feed running from a P5/133 box running FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE and the 5.0 server (for FreeBSD) which I helped set up recently. Or did you mean the FreeBSD project specifically? Jordan > > With the streaming flash animation and sound it could be done rather > cheaply. Its a perfect script though. I could see it being funnier then the > IBM "Hadley downloaded a virus off the web" commercial that Ogilvey and > Mathers did. Especially if it is done in that same style. And if we use the > "shut me down" song I think we don't have to pay royalties because it is a > parody. Don't quote me on that. > > "Hadley said it was multitasking" > > happy halloween all :[ > > > > -cliff > > /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\ > > PGP v5.0 public key > > "Those of you that renounce this superstitious > and hysterical belief in users will be eligible > to join the Warrior Elite of the M.C.P" > Tron-1982 > \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 04:25:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA17119 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 04:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA17114 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 04:25:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-233.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.233]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA06895; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:25:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA13591; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:25:43 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711011225.GAA13591@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hcremean@vt.edu cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: IDE Drive Economy In-reply-to: Message from Lee Cremeans of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 04:18:44 EST." <19971101041844.31170@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 06:25:43 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org said: > FWIW, the only real difference between a SCSI drive and an IDE drive > these days is the interface chip and the firmware. Well, I think the manufacturers of SCSI drives know a SCSI drive is going into a more demanding system than a consumer IDE drive. I note that 5400 RPM, 128k of RAM, and about 6GB are the upper limits on IDE drives these days. 7200 RPM, 1MB, Fast-Wide SCSI, 9G, 3.5" drives are on the liquidation block at http://www.onsale.com. Certainly some models have the same disks, heads, actuators, for both IDE and SCSI versions. I haven't seen any SCSI/IDE twins that were not on the low end of the market. > It is unlikely that home users will just suddenly start buying > mass quantities of scsi interface drives, so they will probably > continue to be inproportionately expensive. There is hope. Symbios is doing an excellent job producing inexpensive high performance SCSI controllers. Some users will balk at an additional cost for a SCSI drive, but absolutely refuse to buy once they notice they need a controller too. > Well, the Mac did help with that somewhat. I noticed that when Apple > started running aground, the prices of SCSI stuff went way up (higher > than what they had been). Apple cheated in some newer Macs, tho, and > used IDE; I forget which ones exactly. In the last year or so when SCSI stuff skyrocketed was the same time SCSI RPM's started increasing and onboard memory increased. Was also about the same time many Mac mailorder HD houses started carrying Mac clones. This week's ad in MacWeek was the first for APS that I've seen in a long time that featured their HD's. Recently they featured their Motorola PowerPC clones. But this time the clones had only a small mention, and 2G SCSI HD's got top billing at about $229. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 05:12:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA18327 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:12:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua ([195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA18314 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:12:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rssh@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua) Received: from cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05229; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:05:51 GMT Message-ID: <345B535E.87CBDCA4@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 16:05:50 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Russell L. Carter" CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710311525.IAA05289@dnstoo.consys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Russell L. Carter wrote: > }On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > } > } ? > } ? In reality, FreeBSD can not be concurentable ws NT, we have few big > } ?problems: > } ? 1. bad java support > } ? 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) > } ? 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. > } > } Can't comment here since I don't much on this topic. > > A visit to javasoft's site turns up: > > http://www.csi.uottawa.ca/~kwhite/javaport.html > > Appears to be 1.1.2. Seems to work, unfortunately I spend > most of my time in Visual Cafe these days, so I can't say how solid it is. > It's not sollid. (It's work, in principle, but awt part is wery bad) > Russell From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 05:39:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19334 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA19329 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:39:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04238; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:39:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:39:18 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "Pedro Giffuni S." cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Operating system stability In-Reply-To: <345A9643.25B375AB@asme.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, Pedro Giffuni S. wrote: > probably Cray boxes) that will run fine until year 2000. Many times this > "uptime" records are the result of the longetivity of their system > maintainers :-). It is hard to get long uptimes if your hardware has a short life-cycle. This is not an uncommon situation for a lot of machines FreeBSD runs on. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 05:51:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19681 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:51:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA19669 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:50:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-233.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.233]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA21102; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:50:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA14259; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:50:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711011350.HAA14259@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: pechter@lakewood.com cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Is this emulator of interest to FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Message from Bill Pechter of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:43:26 EST." <199711010243.VAA08286@i4got.lakewood.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 07:50:27 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The PDP/11 emulator works really well though :-). > > > > That could be fun if it included and ancient original BSD for the > > PDP-11! > > Not yet... it's got v7 though. > > Wanna rewrite the emulator for Xwindows to include a full 11/70 front > panel. (There's a PDP8 emulator complete with toggle switches. It runs > great on FreeBSD and it even emulates a 300 baud all caps teletype in an > Xterm... r...e...a...l...s..l...o...w...l..y. I could even imagine the > clunking noises). Sound cards. That's what they are there for. Insignia's SoftPC even makes PC floppy grinding sounds when it boots on Mac and SGI systems. Guess these emulators are not in the ports collection: nospam: {825} cd /usr/ports/emul* nospam: {826} find . -type f -exec grep -il pdp "{}" \; nospam: {827} > > And the MITS emulation would be fun too, with a GUI front end complete > > with blinking lights and toggle switches. :-) > > > > To complete the list we also need the (I can't remember its name!) > > Rockwell 6502 board. > > AIM-65 I believe... or was it the KIM-65 Thats it! Actually was thinking of AIM-65, but there was a KIM something or another that I can't quite place. Another Amusing Thing To Emulate would be Intel's ISIS-II OS. I still have some interesting tools for a PDS-100, such as a PL/M-51 compiler. May still have Intel Fortran-80 too. One problem might be reading the Intel floppy disk format. And aedit. Once upon a time, aedit was my favorite text editor. Had a DOS version of aedit once. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 06:04:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20067 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:04:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from skraldespand.demos.su (skraldespand.demos.su [194.87.5.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20060 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mishania@skraldespand.demos.su) Received: (from mishania@localhost) by skraldespand.demos.su (8.8.8/D) id RAA23333; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:04:16 +0300 (MSK) Posted-Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:04:16 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <19971101170416.22242@demos.su> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:04:16 +0300 From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <19971031150124.02035@micron.mini.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.75 In-Reply-To: ; from Jan Koum on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 03:41:17PM -0800 Organization: Demos Company, Ltd., Moscow, Russian Federation. X-Point-of-View: Gravity is myth, - the earth sucks. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Whatever it is, I don't think there should be an abbrevate "PC" in the slogan. I can hardly call any of local freebsd machines a 'personal computer'. -- -mishania From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 08:30:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26159 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:30:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from skraldespand.demos.su (skraldespand.demos.su [194.87.5.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26143 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:30:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mishania@skraldespand.demos.su) Received: (from mishania@localhost) by skraldespand.demos.su (8.8.8/D) id TAA27423; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:29:28 +0300 (MSK) Posted-Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:29:28 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <19971101192927.35504@demos.su> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:29:27 +0300 From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" To: dg@root.com Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <25169.878341989@time.cdrom.com> <199711010032.QAA25124@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.75 In-Reply-To: <199711010032.QAA25124@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 04:32:19PM -0800 Organization: Demos Company, Ltd., Moscow, Russian Federation. X-Point-of-View: Gravity is myth, - the earth sucks. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 04:32:19PM -0800, David Greenman wrote: # >> FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. # >Hmmmm. I rather like this one, I just wonder if Microsoft has # >trademarked the verb "go" or something. :) # # Actually, I like it too. Before selecting it, it might be prudent to get # a lawyer's opinion on if it violates their trademark (or is it servicemark?). Doesn't it sound like a cons-M$ slogan? # David Greenman # Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project -- -mishania From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 08:45:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26681 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:45:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26673 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:45:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA26370 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:45:42 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.6/brasil-1.2) with UUCP id RAA04602 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:45:01 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.7/keltia-2.11/nospam) id JAA11346; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:37:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971028093740.11861@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:37:40 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Solaris for personal use...hate to ask here :( References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 12:17:16PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3745 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to The Hermit Hacker: > Now, the qustion. Awhile back, I *swore* smeoe pointed out a URL for > where you could go get a *personal* copy of Solaris for free...it was at > www.sun.com...or am I only thinking of the SCO deal? I'm only looking at > this from a development/HotJava/JDK 1.1.x perspective, if its available... It was in the news section at that moment but the request had to come from an academic entity, with proper signatures and all that stuff. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #41: Sat Oct 18 18:47:01 CEST 1997 From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 10:37:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01152 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:37:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01142 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:37:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mallison@konnections.com) Received: from ip185-237.konnections.com (ip185-237.konnections.com [207.173.185.237]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA22003; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:33:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by ip185-237.konnections.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCE6BA.667CC610@ip185-237.konnections.com>; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:36:31 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCE6BA.667CC610@ip185-237.konnections.com> From: Mike Allison To: "pechter@lakewood.com" , "'dkelly@hiwaay.net'" Cc: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Is this emulator of interest to FreeBSD? Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:36:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It's not an emulator, per se, but has anyone done a front end or a preprocessor to pascal that would do Turbo Pascal 3? I & the community have a number of good utilities in TP3. I know it could be ported, but I guess the libs are the real stumbling block. I'd entertain suggestions..... There used to be a TP3 that ran on Xenix..... -Mike Allison ---------- From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Sent: Saturday, November 01, 1997 6:50 AM To: pechter@lakewood.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is this emulator of interest to FreeBSD? > > > The PDP/11 emulator works really well though :-). > > > > That could be fun if it included and ancient original BSD for the > > PDP-11! > > Not yet... it's got v7 though. > > Wanna rewrite the emulator for Xwindows to include a full 11/70 front > panel. (There's a PDP8 emulator complete with toggle switches. It runs > great on FreeBSD and it even emulates a 300 baud all caps teletype in an > Xterm... r...e...a...l...s..l...o...w...l..y. I could even imagine the > clunking noises). Sound cards. That's what they are there for. Insignia's SoftPC even makes PC floppy grinding sounds when it boots on Mac and SGI systems. Guess these emulators are not in the ports collection: nospam: {825} cd /usr/ports/emul* nospam: {826} find . -type f -exec grep -il pdp "{}" \; nospam: {827} > > And the MITS emulation would be fun too, with a GUI front end complete > > with blinking lights and toggle switches. :-) > > > > To complete the list we also need the (I can't remember its name!) > > Rockwell 6502 board. > > AIM-65 I believe... or was it the KIM-65 Thats it! Actually was thinking of AIM-65, but there was a KIM something or another that I can't quite place. Another Amusing Thing To Emulate would be Intel's ISIS-II OS. I still have some interesting tools for a PDS-100, such as a PL/M-51 compiler. May still have Intel Fortran-80 too. One problem might be reading the Intel floppy disk format. And aedit. Once upon a time, aedit was my favorite text editor. Had a DOS version of aedit once. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 11:00:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02277 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:00:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from isgate.is (isgate.is [193.4.58.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02261 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:00:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from eh.est.is (eh.est.is [194.144.208.34]) by isgate.is (8.7.5-M/) with ESMTP id SAA24739; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:52:53 GMT Received: from didda.est.is (totii@ppp-22.est.is [194.144.208.122]) by eh.est.is (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08933; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:51:09 GMT Message-ID: <345B7A7A.41C67EA6@est.is> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 18:52:42 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=DEor=F0ur?= Ivarsson X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hcremean@vt.edu CC: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IDE Drive Economy References: <19971101041844.31170@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lee Cremeans wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 08:34:59PM -0800, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > > I know that scsi is supposed > > to be better, but are SCSI drives (I mean the physical disk hardware) of > > higher quality or is it just the controller architecture that is > > deficient. > > IDE is a rather simple command set based on the old Western Digital > WD1003-WA2 and WD1007 interfaces; the first card is the original 1985 PC-AT > MFM controller card! The entire point of IDE was to make a cheap drive with > integrated controller components that would work "out of the box" with an AT > BIOS; it was developed by Compaq with help from WDC, Imprimis and Conner in > 1987-1988. IDE shares many of the WD1003's wins (the cylinder number is > 16-bit, and the sector number is 8-bit, giving a max geometry of 65536 > cylinders*16 heads*256 sectors==128 GB) and losses (not good for > multitasking since all accesses have to be serialised, and the interface is > rather piggish, even with DMA support). > > SCSI, on the other hand, is more robust and handles multi-tasking > environments more adeptly; it started in the early 1980s as SASI (Shugart > Associates Systems Interface), and was codified around 1986 as SCSI-1. SCSI > has its own command language, and can have multiple devices doing things at > once, unlike IDE where you can only talk to one drive at once. Also, the > newest versions of SCSI can outdo IDE in raw speed, which is partially due > to the smarter bus architecture. To top it off, SCSI can handle more devices > (7 for narrow, 15 for wide) at once, and isn't limited to hard drives, > unlike IDE, which was like that until ATAPI came out (ATAPI is really just a > SCSI-style protocol grafted onto the IDE/WD1003 register structure, hence > the many comments here about IDE Zip drives just being SCSI devices with > different firmware.) > > As for the drives, well, it depends. Most IDE drives these days are built > just as well as their SCSI counterparts, though there are some SCSI-only > drives that are notably wonky (the Quantum Grand Prix comes to mind; I've > heard quite a few horror stories about that drive line), and a few drives > that are just plain junk (most of the Maxtor/MiniScribe 7000 series, IDE or > SCSI, and ESPECIALLY the 7120). FWIW, the only real difference between a > SCSI drive and an IDE drive these days is the interface chip and the > firmware. > > > It is unlikely that home users will just suddenly start buying > > mass quantities of scsi interface drives, so they will probably continue > > to be inproportionately expensive. > > Well, the Mac did help with that somewhat. I noticed that when Apple started > running aground, the prices of SCSI stuff went way up (higher than what they > had been). Apple cheated in some newer Macs, tho, and used IDE; I forget > which ones exactly. All low end Macs are using IDE drives but the computer has SCSI interface, and most of the macs have SCSI CD-ROMs. The low end machines I remember are: 630 (68040),5200,5260 (60X) and more Thordur Ivarsson From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 11:39:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03866 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:39:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03861 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:39:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06525 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:39:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711011939.LAA06525@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://www.plig.org/xwinman/vote.html Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 11:39:23 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Care to vote for your favorited window manager ? I of course voted for enlightenment 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 12:43:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06761 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:43:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06733 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:42:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.inteng.com ([168.176.3.46]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA16135; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:45:33 +0500 Message-ID: <345B92EE.4D4909C2@asme.org> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 20:37:03 +0000 From: "Pedro Giffuni S." Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Allison CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: TP3 -like compiler (was Re: Is this emulator of interest to FreeBSD?) References: <01BCE6BA.667CC610@ip185-237.konnections.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, I once was really good on Pascal, and I'm still not used to C (it's too messy). There is a Turbo Pascal like compiler for Linux, derived from a DOS version, but I don't even want to start porting it. The Linux guys seem willing to help, but I guess you might need to use gpc (the GNU pascal compiler). I think I'll end up using C++ or Java. They have a lot of things working though: there is an IDE, and the Pascal tvision libraries. Their homepage is here: http://www.brain.uni-freiburg.de/~klaus/fpk-pas/ cheers, Pedro. Mike Allison wrote: > > It's not an emulator, per se, but has anyone done a front end or a > preprocessor to pascal that would do Turbo Pascal 3? > > I & the community have a number of good utilities in TP3. I know > it could be ported, but I guess the libs are the real stumbling block. > > I'd entertain suggestions..... > > There used to be a TP3 that ran on Xenix..... > > -Mike Allison > From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 13:12:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08181 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:12:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08119 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:12:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-152.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.152]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA09544 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:11:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA00785 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:11:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711012111.PAA00785@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 15:11:50 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD: Born Free To Network. FreeBSD: Native Internet Networker. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 13:37:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09441 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:37:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09434 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:37:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12579; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:37:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711012137.NAA12579@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: dkelly@hiwaay.net cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 15:11:50 CST." <199711012111.PAA00785@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 13:37:17 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FreeBSD: Born Free To Network. > > FreeBSD: Native Internet Networker. > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net > ===================================================================== > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. Hmm... I like the above FreeBSD: Internet Aborigen Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 14:02:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10397 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:02:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10391 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:02:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14543 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:02:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711012202.OAA14543@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: yet another slogan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 14:02:19 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD: boot BSD BSD> boot Internet Internet> boot FreeBSD We can think about the first step as the big bang -- out of broken OS symetry BSD came into existence 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 14:20:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11132 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (bsdchat@shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11127 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:20:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsdchat@shadows.aeon.net) Received: (from bsdchat@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.7/8.8.3) id AAA05293; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:22:18 +0200 (EET) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199711012222.AAA05293@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <000701bce570$9ed09960$0100a8c0@einstein.cybersurf.net> from Stephane Raimbault at "Oct 30, 97 08:15:50 pm" To: stephane@cybersurf.net (Stephane Raimbault) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:22:18 +0200 (EET) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > using twm which comes with XFree86. uh, you might wish to check out afterstep. some people prefer also enlightment, but i find it _very_ hard to believe. afterstep is all you want, really. (yes, yes, this issue is in category "holy wars") mickey ps. emacs. emacs. emacs. zsh. zsh. zsh. elm. elm. elm. trn. trn. trn. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 14:56:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12595 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:56:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from ha1.rdc1.pa.home.com (siteadm@ha1.rdc1.pa.home.com [24.2.5.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12581 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:56:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nellie@home.com) From: nellie@home.com Received: from [24.3.111.2] by ha1.rdc1.pa.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA8968 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:56:03 -0800 X-Sender: nellie@mail Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:55:56 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: hardware Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Silly question, I have found no places that have excellent prices on AMDk6-233's, anyone know of any, I am asking because I am gonna install FreeBSD ;P phiberoptics From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 15:50:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14869 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from gloria.cord.edu (gloria.cord.edu [138.129.254.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14859 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:50:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrahlstr@gloria.cord.edu) Received: from localhost (nrahlstr@localhost) by gloria.cord.edu (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA20791 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:49:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:49:58 -0600 (CST) From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Slogan Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD: Overclocking the Internet Nathan nrahlstr@gloria.cord.edu From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 15:57:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15293 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:57:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15288 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:57:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA01221; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:53:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:53:16 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: mika ruohotie cc: Stephane Raimbault , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <199711012222.AAA05293@shadows.aeon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Nov 1997, mika ruohotie wrote: > > So, I'm just wondering what Window Manager some of you use. I am currently > > using twm which comes with XFree86. > > uh, you might wish to check out afterstep. some people prefer > also enlightment, but i find it _very_ hard to believe. > > afterstep is all you want, really. I think we have to explain ourselves. Afterstep is patterned on fvwm2 (they took fvwm2 as a code base and tried to intelligently use some stuff from the Next machines). Has most of the good ideas of fvwm2, and some of the best of the Next also. I think this rates as a great concept, done pretty well, I give it a B+. Definitely _looks_ better than fvwm2, aguable about if it works better. enlightenment seems to have been done by someone in love with rococo art. Incredible use of purely beautiful graphics. How to do various things just isn't obvious, but you're so dazzled by the imagery, who cares? I looked at it, was impressed (very) by the art, but couldn't figure out how to get work done. If you have the time and disk space, you want to look at it. If you're limited in either, it's not an incredibly good bet. Also supposed to be buggy. A+ for art, C for implementation, D- for useability/documentation. > > (yes, yes, this issue is in category "holy wars") > > > mickey > > ps. emacs. emacs. emacs. zsh. zsh. zsh. elm. elm. elm. trn. trn. trn. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 16:56:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18020 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:56:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18015 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:56:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05170; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:59:43 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dcarmich) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199711012359.RAA05170@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: An idea for a FreeBSD slogan with an Outback Steakhouse-ish ring To: grog@lemis.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:59:42 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD: the no worries operating system! From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 17:12:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18635 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:12:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (bob.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18622 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:12:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@bob.scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bob.scl.ameslab.gov (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08816 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:12:26 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711020112.TAA08816@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone going to SC97? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 19:12:26 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have not had the chance to go to any conferences or such until now, and was wodering how many people would be attending. I've always been interested in meeting some of the people that work on FreeBSD... :) Chris Csanady From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 17:33:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19674 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:33:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19666 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:33:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA26669; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:03:37 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971102120337.06871@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:03:37 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Amancio Hasty Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Window manager vote (was: http://www.plig.org/xwinman/vote.html) References: <199711011939.LAA06525@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711011939.LAA06525@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 11:39:23AM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 11:39:23AM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Care to vote for your favorited window manager ? > > I of course voted for enlightenment 8) Hmm. I don't know enlightenment, except what people have said about it over the last few days, but exactly that makes me suspicious about a poll which gives it over 40% of all votes. I'd guess that this is not a typical cross-section of the X public. Any comments? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 17:42:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20189 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:42:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20174 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:42:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA26693; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:12:09 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971102121208.35741@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:12:08 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Douglas Carmichael Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An idea for a FreeBSD slogan with an Outback Steakhouse-ish ring References: <199711012359.RAA05170@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711012359.RAA05170@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net>; from Douglas Carmichael on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 05:59:42PM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 05:59:42PM -0600, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > FreeBSD: the no worries operating system! Over here, this would sound better: FreeBSD. No worries. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 17:50:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20642 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20635 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:50:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19563; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:50:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711020150.RAA19563@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Greg Lehey cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Window manager vote (was: http://www.plig.org/xwinman/vote.html) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Nov 1997 12:03:37 +1030." <19971102120337.06871@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 17:50:15 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 11:39:23AM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > Care to vote for your favorited window manager ? > > > > I of course voted for enlightenment 8) > > Hmm. I don't know enlightenment, except what people have said about > it over the last few days, but exactly that makes me suspicious about > a poll which gives it over 40% of all votes. I'd guess that this is > not a typical cross-section of the X public. Any comments? > > Greg I sincerely hope that enlightenment serves as sn inspiration for cool works of art to come ... We need cool looks and feel and art !! Honestly, I don't expect this group of people to like enlightenment it is sort of against the groups inclination which is very OScentric -- new cool term 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 17:52:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20753 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:52:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20747 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:52:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA26732; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:22:24 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971102122224.37668@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:22:24 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Amancio Hasty Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Window manager vote (was: http://www.plig.org/xwinman/vote.html) References: <19971102120337.06871@lemis.com> <199711020150.RAA19563@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711020150.RAA19563@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 05:50:15PM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 05:50:15PM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 11:39:23AM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: >>> >>> Care to vote for your favorited window manager ? >>> >>> I of course voted for enlightenment 8) >> >> Hmm. I don't know enlightenment, except what people have said about >> it over the last few days, but exactly that makes me suspicious about >> a poll which gives it over 40% of all votes. I'd guess that this is >> not a typical cross-section of the X public. Any comments? > > I sincerely hope that enlightenment serves as sn inspiration for cool > works of art to come ... We need cool looks and feel and art !! Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Enlightenment, I'm just doubting that a relatively unknown window manager is in use by 40% of the installed base. > Honestly, I don't expect this group of people to like enlightenment it > is sort of against the groups inclination which is very > OScentric -- new cool term 8) Yes, I can see that. I've just been looking at the screen shot at http://www.plig.org/xwinman/screenshots/enlightenment.jpg and trying to form an opinion. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 18:04:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA21272 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21263 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:04:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19694; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:04:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711020204.SAA19694@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Greg Lehey cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Window manager vote (was: http://www.plig.org/xwinman/vote.html) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Nov 1997 12:22:24 +1030." <19971102122224.37668@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 18:04:12 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just download it and try out for yourself 8) Disk is dirt cheap Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 18:10:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA21603 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:10:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from goliath.airnet.net ([207.120.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21593 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:10:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@kirbybq.airnet.net) Received: from kirbybq.airnet.net (207.120.51.168) by goliath.airnet.net (WorldMail 1.3.122); 1 Nov 1997 20:10:05 -0600 Message-ID: <345BE115.28D80B68@kirbybq.airnet.net> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 20:10:30 -0600 From: "Kris Kirby, KE4AHR" Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hoek@hwcn.org CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > Free your computer, free your mind with FreeBSD. > Free yourself from your computer with FreeBSD. > FreeBSD: The "free" is for freedom! 'bout "Freedom: FreeBSD" -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 18:10:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA21612 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:10:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21594 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:10:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA26790; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:40:29 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971102124029.47095@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:40:29 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Amancio Hasty Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Window manager vote (was: http://www.plig.org/xwinman/vote.html) References: <19971102122224.37668@lemis.com> <199711020204.SAA19694@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711020204.SAA19694@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 06:04:12PM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 06:04:12PM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Just download it and try out for yourself 8) To be honest, I don't like the look of it too much. I've trimmed most of the graphics out of fvwm, and it's almost only text. But I *have* put a pointer to this stuff in the new edition of my book. > Disk is dirt cheap Sure. My time isn't, unfortunately. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 18:22:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22245 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:22:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22236 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:22:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00318; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:26:28 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dcarmich) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199711020126.TAA00318@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: The (official?) FreeBSD theme song To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:26:28 -0600 (CST) Cc: lsmith@lr.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a changed version of Tom Petty's "Refugee": (Play with the best Hammond B-3 and Clavinet you can muster) We get somethin' we both know it, we don't talk too much about it. Ain't no real big secret; all the same, 'somehow we get around it. listen(), it don't really matter to me. Baby, you believe what M$ wants you to believe. You see, you don't have to live like a refugee. (repeat last line 2x) Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have kicked you around some. Tell me why you wanna lay there in NT, revel in your abandon. Honey, it just makes a difference to me. Baby, everybody's had to fight to be FreeBSD. You see, you don't have to live like a refugee. No baby, you don't have to live like a refugee. Baby, you ain't the first. I'm sure a lot of OS's have been burned. Right now this ain't real to you. It's one of those things you got to feel to be true. Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have kicked you around some. Who knows, maybe you were kidnapped, tied-up, taken away, and held for ransom. Honey, it don't really matter to me. Baby, everybody's had to fight to be FreeBSD. You see, you don't have to live like a refugee. No, you don't have to live like a refugee. Baby, you don't have to live like a refugee. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 20:24:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26822 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:24:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26817 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:24:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (dcarmich@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id WAA03924 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:24:53 -0600 (CST) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id WAA11920 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:24:52 -0600 (CST) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199711020424.WAA11920@Mars.mcs.net> Subject: FreeBSD World Tour '97 (any ideas/thoughts?) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:24:52 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (with apologies to the NetBSD folks and Apple :-)) Better music than Rhapsody..... FreeBSD World Tour '97 (big daemon with Fender guitar in front of wall of Marshall stacks) Throwing it as far as we can..... up to 20!!!! Musicians: Jordan Hubbard - vocals, lead guitar, release engineering David Greenman - bass Satoshi Asami - keyboards Poul-Henning Kamp - drums and a cast of thousands..... or: (big daemon on top of a bunch of Anvil road cases) "We're getting our act together and takin' it on the road." FreeBSD World Tour '97 What do you people think? From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 20:40:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27625 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:40:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic17.pm01.san-mateo.best.com [205.149.174.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27567 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:40:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA12245; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:39:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971101203948.47678@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:39:48 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: kris@airnet.net Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <345BE115.28D80B68@kirbybq.airnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <345BE115.28D80B68@kirbybq.airnet.net>; from Kris Kirby, KE4AHR on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 08:10:30PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 08:10:30PM -0600, Kris Kirby, KE4AHR wrote: > Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > > Free your computer, free your mind with FreeBSD. > > > Free yourself from your computer with FreeBSD. > > > FreeBSD: The "free" is for freedom! > > 'bout "Freedom: FreeBSD" "FreeBSD your PC and your mind will follow" with a nod to George Clinton Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 21:00:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28629 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:00:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28621 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:00:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02291; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:58:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:58:28 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Douglas Carmichael cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD World Tour '97 (any ideas/thoughts?) In-Reply-To: <199711020424.WAA11920@Mars.mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, Douglas Carmichael wrote: > (with apologies to the NetBSD folks and Apple :-)) > > Better music than Rhapsody..... > FreeBSD World Tour '97 > > (big daemon with Fender guitar in front of wall of Marshall stacks) > > Throwing it as far as we can..... up to 20!!!! > > Musicians: > Jordan Hubbard - vocals, lead guitar, release engineering > David Greenman - bass > Satoshi Asami - keyboards > Poul-Henning Kamp - drums > and a cast of thousands..... > > or: > (big daemon on top of a bunch of Anvil road cases) > "We're getting our act together and takin' it on the road." > FreeBSD World Tour '97 > > What do you people think? > Awww, come on, _everyone_ knows that Satoshi does the vocals! Or are you new enough not to have seen the ports index commits? > > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 21:12:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA29234 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:12:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA29213 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:12:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00303; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 15:37:45 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711020507.PAA00303@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Douglas Carmichael cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD World Tour '97 (any ideas/thoughts?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 22:24:52 MDT." <199711020424.WAA11920@Mars.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:37:45 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Musicians: > Jordan Hubbard - vocals, lead guitar, release engineering > David Greenman - bass > Satoshi Asami - keyboards It's already been established that Satoshi is the tortured vocalist. > What do you people think? That you need to grow out of your 'teens as quickly as possible? mike From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 21:31:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA29961 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:31:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA29956 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:31:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA27134 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 06:31:03 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.6/brasil-1.2) with UUCP id GAA10660 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 06:30:52 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.7/keltia-2.11/nospam) id DAA06854; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 03:09:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19971102030944.09539@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 03:09:44 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Prefered X Window Manager? References: <8655.878286069@time.cdrom.com> <19971031190658.35264@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19971031190658.35264@wakky.dyn.ml.org>; from Lee Cremeans on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 07:06:58PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3745 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Lee Cremeans: > I use and like AfterStep; I was turned on to it by some of my friends on > IRC, and it looks and works better than fvwm1 IMO. I used it (it is very nice) for a while but stopped when I saw it was a swap pig, eating 3 to 4 times as much as fvwm2. I just kept the various beautiful icons and use them inside fvwm2. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #41: Sat Oct 18 18:47:01 CEST 1997 From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 1 21:48:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01414 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:48:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat) Received: from micro.internexus.net (root@internexus.net [206.152.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01409 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:48:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cliff@cliffsworld.com) Received: from c.f.ains (ppp18.internexus.net [206.152.14.209]) by micro.internexus.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA16520 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:47:53 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971102004835.00a0fad4@mail.internexus.net> X-Sender: compatriot@mail.internexus.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 00:48:35 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: cliff ainsworth III Subject: Re: yet another slogan In-Reply-To: <199711012202.OAA14543@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, FreeBSD: boot BSD BSD> boot Internet Internet> boot FreeBSD >We can think about the first step as the big bang -- out of broken >OS symetry BSD came into existence 8) to continue on Amancio's idea....... How about, FreeBSD.....the best bang since the big one..... ok......not that original I admit and nothing to do with computers.... Although at this point we should just have an enormous banner ad that rotates the 500 or so submissions ;) see ya!! -cliff /=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ PGP v5.0 public key "Those of you that renounce this superstitious and hysterical belief in users will be eligible to join the Warrior Elite of the M.C.P." -Tron 1982 \=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/