From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 01:09:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA01590 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01572 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:09:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from xroot@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07814; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:10:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811010910.BAA07814@implode.root.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: tech@cdrom.com Subject: another wcarchive record From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 01:10:57 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As expected, we set another traffic record on wcarchive yesterday. This was mainly due to the release of a new game, "Blood 2: The Chosen". The old record was 724GB, which was set about a week ago. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: burden@web1.cdrom.com Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [209.155.82.18]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07694 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 00:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from web1.cdrom.com (web1.cdrom.com [209.155.82.19]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21146 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 00:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from burden@localhost) by web1.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26361 for ftp-stats@ftp.cdrom.com; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 00:55:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from burden) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 00:55:51 -0800 (PST) From: John Burden Message-Id: <199811010855.AAA26361@web1.cdrom.com> To: ftp-stats@wcarchive.cdrom.com Subject: Dual Log Stats - 1998/11/01 Dual Log Stats : Nov 01 1998 -------------------------------------------------- Current Record Delta --------------------- --------------------- --------------------- Bytes 759,951,580,051 759,951,580,051 New Record! Files 911,128 2,087,870 -1,176,742 FTP Bytes 759,951,580,051 759,951,580,051 New Record! FTP Files 911,128 2,087,870 -1,176,742 HTTP Bytes 58,081,249,072 -58,081,249,072 HTTP Files 567,700 -567,700 =============================================================================== Total FTP HTTP Total FTP HTTP Total Total Bytes Bytes Bytes Files Files Files %Bytes %Files - -------------- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- ------- ------ ------ /planetquake 238,741M 238,741M 0M 38,334 38,334 0 31.42 4.21 /3dfiles 124,449M 124,449M 0M 33,400 33,400 0 16.38 3.67 /FreeBSD 98,857M 98,857M 0M 335,471 335,471 0 13.01 36.82 /games 57,124M 57,124M 0M 15,552 15,552 0 7.52 1.71 /linux 44,665M 44,665M 0M 193,597 193,597 0 5.88 21.25 /gamesdomain 43,370M 43,370M 0M 7,124 7,124 0 5.71 0.78 /idgames 32,942M 32,942M 0M 22,201 22,201 0 4.33 2.44 /simtelnet 23,262M 23,262M 0M 57,447 57,447 0 3.06 6.31 /idgames2 17,649M 17,649M 0M 43,679 43,679 0 2.32 4.79 /demos 14,898M 14,898M 0M 41,526 41,526 0 1.96 4.56 /3drealms 14,500M 14,500M 0M 21,256 21,256 0 1.91 2.33 /gt 11,852M 11,852M 0M 1,851 1,851 0 1.56 0.20 /unreal 8,521M 8,521M 0M 9,684 9,684 0 1.12 1.06 /cnet 7,667M 7,667M 0M 6,974 6,974 0 1.01 0.77 /audio 6,193M 6,193M 0M 20,978 20,978 0 0.81 2.30 /dresden 3,953M 3,953M 0M 5,540 5,540 0 0.52 0.61 /security 1,214M 1,214M 0M 1,109 1,109 0 0.16 0.12 /artpacks 989M 989M 0M 2,781 2,781 0 0.13 0.31 /tex 820M 820M 0M 15,214 15,214 0 0.11 1.67 /jn4 774M 774M 0M 193 193 0 0.10 0.02 /sac 720M 720M 0M 1,670 1,670 0 0.09 0.18 /japanese 665M 665M 0M 740 740 0 0.09 0.08 /cheats 632M 632M 0M 2,545 2,545 0 0.08 0.28 /X11 444M 444M 0M 8,981 8,981 0 0.06 0.99 /perl 421M 421M 0M 4,404 4,404 0 0.06 0.48 /os2 419M 419M 0M 1,820 1,820 0 0.06 0.20 /delphideli 397M 397M 0M 1,533 1,533 0 0.05 0.17 /gnu 389M 389M 0M 411 411 0 0.05 0.05 //ls-lR 309M 309M 0M 56 56 0 0.04 0.01 //ls-lR.gz 296M 296M 0M 84 84 0 0.04 0.01 /beos 269M 269M 0M 908 908 0 0.04 0.10 /abuse 248M 248M 0M 215 215 0 0.03 0.02 /XFree86 229M 229M 0M 336 336 0 0.03 0.04 /povray 215M 215M 0M 368 368 0 0.03 0.04 /languages 215M 215M 0M 396 396 0 0.03 0.04 /delphi 209M 209M 0M 3,014 3,014 0 0.03 0.33 /novell 183M 183M 0M 663 663 0 0.02 0.07 /infozip 178M 178M 0M 1,060 1,060 0 0.02 0.12 /gus 176M 176M 0M 311 311 0 0.02 0.03 /NetBSD 135M 135M 0M 152 152 0 0.02 0.02 /unixfreeware 121M 121M 0M 299 299 0 0.02 0.03 /garbo 78M 78M 0M 407 407 0 0.01 0.04 /gutenberg 73M 73M 0M 453 453 0 0.01 0.05 /avalon 58M 58M 0M 609 609 0 0.01 0.07 /cdrom 45M 45M 0M 619 619 0 0.01 0.07 /asme 43M 43M 0M 470 470 0 0.01 0.05 /math 42M 42M 0M 203 203 0 0.01 0.02 /irc 41M 41M 0M 155 155 0 0.01 0.02 /mozilla 33M 33M 0M 16 16 0 0.00 0.00 /x2ftp 31M 31M 0M 222 222 0 0.00 0.02 /tomahawk 26M 26M 0M 127 127 0 0.00 0.01 /bsd-sources 25M 25M 0M 128 128 0 0.00 0.01 /java 15M 15M 0M 146 146 0 0.00 0.02 /mac 14M 14M 0M 78 78 0 0.00 0.01 /hamradio 13M 13M 0M 109 109 0 0.00 0.01 /viseng 12M 12M 0M 18 18 0 0.00 0.00 /ase 10M 10M 0M 22 22 0 0.00 0.00 /internet 9M 9M 0M 419 419 0 0.00 0.05 /tcl 8M 8M 0M 31 31 0 0.00 0.00 /wcarchive.jpg 7M 7M 0M 101 101 0 0.00 0.01 /obi 7M 7M 0M 172 172 0 0.00 0.02 /algorithms 5M 5M 0M 1,063 1,063 0 0.00 0.12 /sde 3M 3M 0M 12 12 0 0.00 0.00 /python 2M 2M 0M 39 39 0 0.00 0.00 /netlib 1M 1M 0M 56 56 0 0.00 0.01 /png 1M 1M 0M 85 85 0 0.00 0.01 /README 1M 1M 0M 234 234 0 0.00 0.03 /wcarchive.txt 882k 882k 0k 275 275 0 0.00 0.03 //UPLOADS.TXT 666k 666k 0k 243 243 0 0.00 0.03 /unix-c 620k 620k 0k 6 6 0 0.00 0.00 /4cust 509k 509k 0k 5 5 0 0.00 0.00 /MacSciTech 438k 438k 0k 21 21 0 0.00 0.00 //README 308k 308k 0k 443 443 0 0.00 0.05 /slow.txt 213k 213k 0k 151 151 0 0.00 0.02 /catalog 123k 123k 0k 2 2 0 0.00 0.00 //catalog 123k 123k 0k 2 2 0 0.00 0.00 /games_patches 56k 56k 0k 30 30 0 0.00 0.00 /msg.toomany 22k 22k 0k 59 59 0 0.00 0.01 /mng 21k 21k 0k 10 10 0 0.00 0.00 //config 9k 9k 0k 3 3 0 0.00 0.00 //.message 6k 6k 0k 5 5 0 0.00 0.00 /configuration 3k 3k 0k 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 /.message 0k 0k 0k 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 - -------------- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- ------- ------ ------ 83 archives 759,951M 759,951M 0M 911,128 911,128 0 ~100.0 ~100.0 (k) = 1,000 bytes (M) = 1,000,000 bytes =============================================================================== Yesterday Average (30 days) Delta - ------------- --------------------- --------------------- --------------------- Hits (FTP) 911,128 921,040 -9,912 Hits (HTTP) 0 0 Hits (combo) 911,128 921,040 -9,912 Bytes (FTP) 759,951,580,051 479,269,598,245 280,681,981,806 Bytes (HTTP) 0 0 Bytes (combo) 759,951,580,051 479,269,598,245 280,681,981,806 Past 7 Days Past 30 Days Since 26 Feb 1997 - ------------- --------------------- --------------------- --------------------- Hits (FTP) 6,972,565 27,631,216 302,384,986 Hits (HTTP) 0 0 154,476,821 Hits (combo) 6,972,565 27,631,216 456,861,817 Bytes (FTP) 4,191,281,204,662 14,378,087,947,367 132,053,429,763,968 Bytes (HTTP) 0 0 10,106,100,542,342 Bytes (combo) 4,191,281,204,662 14,378,087,947,367 142,159,530,306,210 ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 02:47:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11926 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 02:47:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11920 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 02:47:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul3.u.washington.edu (root@saul3.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.1]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id CAA15642 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 02:47:42 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id CAA28625 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 02:47:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 02:47:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: I like it! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I like the new site. I like the fact that more of the info that I like to use is indexed on the home page. Nice Work! Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 10:02:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10726 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:02:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10720 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:02:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00109; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:02:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19981101100211.B29967@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:02:11 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Counter Page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of it's counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * This is a beta release. It is not perfect and will have a few bugs and flaws. If you find any please let us know. * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spamers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. Josef (jgrosch@MooseRiver.com) -- $Id: CounterPageAnnounce.txt,v 1.4 1998/10/01 06:52:19 jgrosch Exp $ -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 10:17:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12418 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:17:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12411 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:17:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00167; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:17:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19981101101723.C29967@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:17:23 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: announce@bafug.org Subject: FreeBSD Retail Page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at (http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html). Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 15:55:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28447 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:55:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28438 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02502 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:54:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:54:30 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: upgrading Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I want to upgrade one of my systems, so I want to see if I can squeeze some cash (at least a little) out of the present one. I have a Tyan Tomcat, Pentium 166MHz, 32M installed, 512K cache motherboard. I am thinking of getting an Intel DK440LX, and it has a scsi controller, so I won't need the NCR 875 controller this system has either. In fact, the new one's an ATX system so I guess I could manage to get rid of the whole case and power supply (250W) too. If you pay shipping, but I guarantee it runs FreeBSD, and give a 30 warranty, anyone offer me something? No disk with it, just what I spec'd above. I'm NOT a dealer, this is just my way of affording an upgrade. I'm known on this list, so you can trust my warranty, the system WILL be good (it works fine). Please DON'T respond on this list! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 18:18:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15630 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:18:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15602 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:17:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14243; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:17:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981101201753.37018@futuresouth.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:17:53 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [olag@ifi.uio.no: [MUD-Dev] Re: MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey, it just screamed at me ;) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* -----Forwarded message from Ola Fosheim Grøstad ----- Message-ID: <363B9AD9.EE788CF0@ifi.uio.no> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:18:49 +0100 From: Ola Fosheim =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gr=F8stad?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) To: mud-dev@kanga.nu Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: MUD-Dev's DevMUD: a word of caution X-Sender: mud-dev-owner@kanga.nu Precedence: list Sender: "Petidomo List Agent -- Kanga.Nu version" > Since it gets suppressed in the sanitized histories and this is > mud-dev, it might be worth remembering that the real motivation > for writing Unix was that they wanted a host for SpaceWar, and > refused to use any of the existing OSes... :) http://www.kanga.nu/~petidomo/lists/mud-dev/1998Q3/msg01353.html -- Ola -- MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future. -----End of forwarded message----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 20:00:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27029 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:00:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (port-42-pm3a-gnv.da.fdt.net [209.212.133.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27018 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:00:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Message-Id: <199811020400.XAA21087@ocalhost> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19981101101723.C29967@mooseriver.com> From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 23:00:10 -0500 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Retail Page References: <19981101101723.C29967@mooseriver.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Author: Josef Grosch Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:17:23 -0800 ID: <19981101101723.C29967@mooseriver.com> > http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html). I followed that link to barnesandnoble.com and did a search for the FreeBSD book.... I then clicked on the more info page and saw the "People who bought this title also bought " part, which I always find interesting and a good way to find other reference materials. The one for FreeBSD was a little interesting! "People who bought this title also bought ... The Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD UNIX Operating System, Marshall Kirk McKusick,Keith Bostic The Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas, Walt Disney Productions,Mouse Works" I don't even know what to make of that!!! TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 21:54:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12367 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:54:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12350 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:54:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA22051; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 22:54:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981101223919.0462acd0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 22:54:07 -0700 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Microsoft "Halloween document:" Authentic? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Raymond has published a document which he claims is an internal white paper from Microsoft on the subject of open source software. The document is "conveniently" slanted toward the Linux camp in that it identifies Linux as being of major interest (and a major threat to Microsoft) and dismisses FreeBSD (and the other *BSDs) as too little of a threat to be worth investigating. (The list of open source software projects of interest, at the end of the document, doesn't include a link to any *BSD Web sites.) It also describes the presence of a core team, and coordination and vetting of contributions to the code base, as weaknesses rather than strengths. It's not clear whether the document is authentic, a "head fake" (intentional leak), or a complete fraud. However, the slant toward Linux, and the absence of more than a passing mention of the *BSDs, strikes me as suspicious -- as if a Linux partisan wrote it. What do you think? Raymond has posted the document at http://www.tuxedo.org/%7Eesr/halloween.html --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 1 22:56:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21319 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 22:56:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA21313 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 22:56:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zaDua-00024Q-00; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 23:56:24 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA01031; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 23:55:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199811020655.XAA01031@harmony.village.org> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Microsoft's Open Source strategy (was: Ariel Faigon: The Holloween Document (fwd)) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:21:40 +1030." <19981102172140.J354@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19981102172140.J354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811020606.XAA00655@harmony.village.org> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 23:55:58 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <19981102172140.J354@freebie.lemis.com> Greg Lehey writes: : [following up to -chat] Agreed. However, the header that I'm replying to said -hackers in it... : On Sunday, 1 November 1998 at 23:06:57 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: : > I got this on a linux list that I'm on and thought I'd forward it to : > this group. It seems relevant. It will likely make you mad. : : This isn't -hackers material. I'm currently reading the full version : (which I've tidied up a bit of remnants of Microsoft formatting and : put at http://www.lemis.com/microsoft-tactics.html). I couldn't deside if it was hackers material or not. It is tangentially related to how the FreeBSD team operates and contains some useful insights into what we're doing right in the development process. It also shows things that we need to be aware of as we go forward in our development. : It doesn't make me mad. And maybe the stuff below is misleading. : It's an interesting (if long) document, but I haven't got to the end, : where I expect to find some recommendations. I agree that the quotes culled were very Linux centric, but the message was from Linux mailing list. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 00:04:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28527 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:04:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28521 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:04:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.05demon1 #1) id 0zaEye-00035F-00; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:04:41 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA01233; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:04:13 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02006; Mon, 2 Nov 98 08:04:11 GMT Message-Id: <363D6763.3FCB4DCD@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:03:47 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: I like it! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason C. Wells wrote: > > I like the new site. I like the fact that more of the info that I like to > use is indexed on the home page. > > Nice Work! > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Ditto -- "Software is like sex, it's better when it's free" - Linus Torvalds. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 00:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03072 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:31:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03045 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA09307; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:00:25 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id TAA29098; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:00:04 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981102190004.K354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:00:04 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Julian Elischer Cc: Warner Losh , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Microsoft's Open Source strategy (was: Ariel Faigon: The Holloween Document (fwd)) References: <19981102172140.J354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 12:01:43AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [dammit, I want this on -chat] On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 0:01:43 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> [following up to -chat] >> >> On Sunday, 1 November 1998 at 23:06:57 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: >>> I got this on a linux list that I'm on and thought I'd forward it to >>> this group. It seems relevant. It will likely make you mad. >> >> This isn't -hackers material. I'm currently reading the full version >> (which I've tidied up a bit of remnants of Microsoft formatting and >> put at http://www.lemis.com/microsoft-tactics.html). > > I doubt this document has come from microsoft. Did you read the entire document? I haven't yet. > It smells of "linux fanatic's daydream" to me.. Then the Linux fanatics must have come up with more credible impersonation skills than I would have attributed to them. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 02:32:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA16526 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:32:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA16521 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) id CAA12185; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:32:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981102023212.A11933@best.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:32:12 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft "Halloween document:" Authentic? References: <4.1.19981101223919.0462acd0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981101223919.0462acd0@127.0.0.1>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 10:54:07PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 10:54:07PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > Eric Raymond has published a document which he claims is an internal white > paper from Microsoft on the subject of open source software. The document > is "conveniently" slanted toward the Linux camp in that it identifies Linux > as being of major interest (and a major threat to Microsoft) and dismisses > FreeBSD (and the other *BSDs) as too little of a threat to be worth > investigating. (The list of open source software projects of interest, at > the end of the document, doesn't include a link to any *BSD Web sites.) It > also describes the presence of a core team, and coordination and vetting of > contributions to the code base, as weaknesses rather than strengths. > > It's not clear whether the document is authentic, a "head fake" > (intentional leak), or a complete fraud. However, the slant toward Linux, > and the absence of more than a passing mention of the *BSDs, strikes me as > suspicious -- as if a Linux partisan wrote it. > > What do you think? Raymond has posted the document at > > http://www.tuxedo.org/%7Eesr/halloween.html > > --Brett Glass > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message This URL already went to advocacy and later on to hackers. I have a feeling tomorrow when people get to work and check the mail from the lists they are on - we will have three threads on three different lists. I also have a feeling all those three threads will pretty much say: Both MS and esr really don't know what is going on in the *BSD world. To put it mildly :) -- Yan I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 03:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25894 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tibatong.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (tibatong.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25887 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:46:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tg@tibatong.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: (from tg@localhost) by tibatong.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10159; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:45:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from tg) To: Timothy J Luoma Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Retail Page References: <19981101101723.C29967@mooseriver.com> <199811020400.XAA21087@ocalhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 02 Nov 1998 12:45:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: Timothy J Luoma's message of "Sun, 01 Nov 1998 23:00:10 -0500" Message-ID: <87vhkywc60.fsf@tibatong.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.34/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Timothy J Luoma writes: > "People who bought this title also bought ... > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD UNIX Operating System, > Marshall Kirk McKusick,Keith Bostic > > The Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas, Walt Disney > Productions,Mouse Works" > > I don't even know what to make of that!!! Two people bought the FreeBSD book; one of them was a die-hard technician, the other one bought something for his son's birthday, too. tg, ``How to make statistics, #15'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 03:55:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26911 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA26906 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:55:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from snowfox@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (snowfox@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id FAA21241; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:55:34 -0600 (CST) Received: (from snowfox@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id FAA24364; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:55:34 -0600 (CST) From: Message-Id: <199811021155.FAA24364@Mars.mcs.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Retail Page To: tg@ihf.rwth-aachen.de (Thomas Gellekum) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:55:34 -0600 (CST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <87vhkywc60.fsf@tibatong.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> from "Thomas Gellekum" at Nov 2, 98 12:45:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > "People who bought this title also bought ... > > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD UNIX Operating System, > > Marshall Kirk McKusick,Keith Bostic > > > > The Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas, Walt Disney > > Productions,Mouse Works" > > > > I don't even know what to make of that!!! It's a damned interesting read, too... (er - the first). What I find more interesting is the current Amazon.com 'also bought' list. Currently, it's heavy on SVR4 materials... I was under the impression that most wind up choosing BSD or SVR4 and sticking with it in a Mac Vs Windows sort of way - preference, not advocacy. Cheers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 04:00:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA27739 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 04:00:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA27485 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 04:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23821 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 04:00:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The halloween document again. Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 04:00:18 -0800 Message-ID: <23816.910008018@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There's another explanation here, and one which I now find most plausible now that I think about it. There really was a group at Microsoft who was tasked with coming up with such a paper, but rather than put in any serious time with it they procrastinated until the last moment and then realized that they needed to generate a position paper on OSS in a real hurry. Since they were then rather too pressed for time to actually install or evaluate any of the offerings (probably also rightly concluding that the suits reading the report wouldn't particularly care about such details anyway), they just prowled around 4 or 5 of the top Linux sites and Eric Raymond's www.opensource.com and put together a pastiche' of all the advocacy they saw there. They probably read a few Linux newsgroups as well, those being the obvious targets with their multi-thousand message counters, and culled some of the "OSS arguments" they saw there. Tada! Result: One paper full of regurgitated Linux advocacy done with all the subtlety of a elementary school student copying a book report out of the encyclopedia at midnight. It's just a theory, but it seems to fit. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 06:49:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22649 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:49:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles227.castles.com [208.214.165.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22619 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:48:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10912; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:47:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811021447.GAA10912@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Nov 1998 04:00:18 PST." <23816.910008018@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 06:47:52 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Tada! Result: One paper full of regurgitated Linux advocacy done with > all the subtlety of a elementary school student copying a book report > out of the encyclopedia at midnight. It's just a theory, but it seems > to fit. It's also much more consistent with Microsoft's internal culture as I've studied it than is esr's set of presumptions. His markup is actually kinda interesting, in that it's clear that he got bored/disinterested/the munchies about halfway through, because there are a lot of really significant points that he simply ignores in the latter half of the "document". He does have one good point; if Microsoft persist in their already-manifest policy of "dec-commoditising" protocol information (as a facet of using their monopoly position to control the market), then we do face a truly desperate battle to continue to interoperate in a useful fashion. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 10:44:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17130 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:44:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17124 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from elle.ifi.uio.no (2602@elle.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.210]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id TAA26913; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:44:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by elle.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:44:36 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Who is FreeBSD Mall? References: <11253.909824202@time.cdrom.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 02 Nov 1998 19:44:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:56:42 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA17125 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > It's not ready yet. When it is, WC will start discussing it more > widely. It already looks very good. Say Hi to Snowman and tell him I like his layout :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 10:50:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17813 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:50:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17807 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:50:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from elle.ifi.uio.no (2602@elle.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.210]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id TAA27831 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:50:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by elle.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:50:21 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Squid error message Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 02 Nov 1998 19:50:20 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA17809 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gotta love Squid: ERROR The requested URL could not be retrieved While trying to retrieve the URL: http://www.freebsdmall.com/newsletter2/isp_revolutionized.phtml The following error was encountered: No Object Data This means that: Don't feel like getting that file Generated by squid/1.1.20@www-cache.ifi.uio.no DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 12:32:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00459 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:32:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00447 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:32:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4034.ime.net [209.90.195.44]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id PAA12997; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:32:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981102152946.00b3ba00@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 15:30:27 -0500 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Squid error message In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA00451 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:50 PM 11/2/98 +0100, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav wrote: >Gotta love Squid: > >ERROR > >The requested URL could not be retrieved > > > >While trying to retrieve the URL: >http://www.freebsdmall.com/newsletter2/isp_revolutionized.phtml > >The following error was encountered: > > No Object Data > >This means that: > > Don't feel like getting that file > > >Generated by squid/1.1.20@www-cache.ifi.uio.no > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no > Hmm.. I love errors that are 'dummied' into things that people can understand... I can understand "Don't feel like getting that file". Why can't Lynx say that instead of "Cannot Open Document"? :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 13:08:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04655 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:08:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04644 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA23978; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:05:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdY23961; Mon Nov 2 21:05:22 1998 Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:04:38 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Greg Lehey cc: Warner Losh , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Microsoft's Open Source strategy (was: Ariel Faigon: The Holloween Document (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <19981102190004.K354@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > [dammit, I want this on -chat] > > On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 0:01:43 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >> [following up to -chat] > >> > >> On Sunday, 1 November 1998 at 23:06:57 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > >>> I got this on a linux list that I'm on and thought I'd forward it to > >>> this group. It seems relevant. It will likely make you mad. > >> > >> This isn't -hackers material. I'm currently reading the full version > >> (which I've tidied up a bit of remnants of Microsoft formatting and > >> put at http://www.lemis.com/microsoft-tactics.html). > > > > I doubt this document has come from microsoft. > > Did you read the entire document? I haven't yet. Most of it.. It seems terribly unprofessional and rather unlikely to me that it is a document of any importance. It sounds like something that might be written by some Linux groupie if he was trying to pull off a 'consultant' gig with microsoft. > > > It smells of "linux fanatic's daydream" to me.. > > Then the Linux fanatics must have come up with more credible > impersonation skills than I would have attributed to them. > I don't know.. I kinda wonder if eric wrote it himself. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 13:17:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05832 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:17:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05826 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:17:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01477; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:16:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811022116.NAA01477@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Julian Elischer cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Microsoft's Open Source strategy (was: Ariel Faigon: The Holloween Document (fwd)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:04:38 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:16:47 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > >> On Sunday, 1 November 1998 at 23:06:57 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > >>> I got this on a linux list that I'm on and thought I'd forward it to > > >>> this group. It seems relevant. It will likely make you mad. > > >> > > >> This isn't -hackers material. I'm currently reading the full version > > >> (which I've tidied up a bit of remnants of Microsoft formatting and > > >> put at http://www.lemis.com/microsoft-tactics.html). > > > > > > I doubt this document has come from microsoft. > > > > Did you read the entire document? I haven't yet. > > Most of it.. > It seems terribly unprofessional and rather unlikely to me that it is a > document of any importance. It sounds like something that might be written > by some Linux groupie if he was trying to pull off a 'consultant' > gig with microsoft. It's a tough call. It certainly reflects quite a lot of knowledge of Microsoft internals. Nothing that you wouldn't know if you'd read about their internal processes, and absorbed some of their jargon, but not something that a rank outsider would come up with. > > > It smells of "linux fanatic's daydream" to me.. > > > > Then the Linux fanatics must have come up with more credible > > impersonation skills than I would have attributed to them. > > > I don't know.. > I kinda wonder if eric wrote it himself. I doubt it. Eric's style is too unstable and incoherent. I very much doubt that he'd be able to pull off something of this magnitude. My inclination would be towards Jordan's guess; you hit the nail on the head when you say that it's a terrible piece of writing, and reflects either a total incompetent, a really rushed job, or just possibly a piece written for a specific agenda. I think we need to wait to hear the tone of the MS denial before we make too many more guesses. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 14:34:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18797 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:34:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18792 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:34:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01887 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:33:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811022233.OAA01887@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Halloween Memo confirmation. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 14:33:41 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org See http://slashdot.org -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 14:57:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21728 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:57:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21721 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:57:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA11612; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:27:21 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA20731; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:27:20 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981103092720.Y354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:27:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <23816.910008018@time.cdrom.com> <199811021447.GAA10912@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811021447.GAA10912@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 06:47:52AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 6:47:52 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > He does have one good point; if Microsoft persist in their > already-manifest policy of "dec-commoditising" protocol information (as > a facet of using their monopoly position to control the market), then we > do face a truly desperate battle to continue to interoperate in a useful > fashion. Indeed. In fact, even if this document is a forgery, this particular issue remains valid. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 15:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22106 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22092 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:02:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02040; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:59:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811022259.OAA02040@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:27:20 +1030." <19981103092720.Y354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 14:59:44 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 6:47:52 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > He does have one good point; if Microsoft persist in their > > already-manifest policy of "dec-commoditising" protocol information (as > > a facet of using their monopoly position to control the market), then we > > do face a truly desperate battle to continue to interoperate in a useful > > fashion. > > Indeed. In fact, even if this document is a forgery, this particular > issue remains valid. It's valid; see my previous post or http://slashdot.org -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 15:02:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22225 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:02:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22203 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:02:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA11608; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:25:48 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA20723; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:25:43 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981103092542.X354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:25:42 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <23816.910008018@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <23816.910008018@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 04:00:18AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 4:00:18 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > There's another explanation here, and one which I now find most > plausible now that I think about it. There really was a group at > Microsoft who was tasked with coming up with such a paper, but rather > than put in any serious time with it they procrastinated until the > last moment and then realized that they needed to generate a position > paper on OSS in a real hurry. Since they were then rather too pressed > for time to actually install or evaluate any of the offerings > (probably also rightly concluding that the suits reading the report > wouldn't particularly care about such details anyway), they just > prowled around 4 or 5 of the top Linux sites and Eric Raymond's > www.opensource.com and put together a pastiche' of all the advocacy > they saw there. They probably read a few Linux newsgroups as well, > those being the obvious targets with their multi-thousand message > counters, and culled some of the "OSS arguments" they saw there. > > Tada! Result: One paper full of regurgitated Linux advocacy done with > all the subtlety of a elementary school student copying a book report > out of the encyclopedia at midnight. It's just a theory, but it seems > to fit. I think you're almost right. The only difference I have is that you apparently think they could have done better if they had had more time. I don't. Recall that they're on the outside looking in, and they have a number of cultural problems understanding what's going on here (heck, we have trouble understanding where it's all going. It must blow Microsoft people's minds). My question is: where did esr get the document from? Is it legal? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 15:20:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24170 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24159 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:20:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA11697; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:50:46 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA20793; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:50:33 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981103095033.D354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:50:33 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103092720.Y354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811022259.OAA02040@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811022259.OAA02040@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 02:59:44PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 14:59:44 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 6:47:52 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>> >>> He does have one good point; if Microsoft persist in their >>> already-manifest policy of "dec-commoditising" protocol information (as >>> a facet of using their monopoly position to control the market), then we >>> do face a truly desperate battle to continue to interoperate in a useful >>> fashion. >> >> Indeed. In fact, even if this document is a forgery, this particular >> issue remains valid. > > It's valid; see my previous post Which one? I thought I saw them all. > or http://slashdot.org You don't seriously expect me to do anything with that URL, do you? All it tells me is that the FreeBSD core team is going to split into two rival factions. If there's something to report there, you could at least specify the correct URL. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 15:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24864 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:27:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24857 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:27:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02245; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:25:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811022325.PAA02245@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:50:33 +1030." <19981103095033.D354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 15:25:12 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> Indeed. In fact, even if this document is a forgery, this particular > >> issue remains valid. > > > > It's valid; see my previous post > > Which one? I thought I saw them all. > > > or http://slashdot.org > > You don't seriously expect me to do anything with that URL, do you? > All it tells me is that the FreeBSD core team is going to split into > two rival factions. If there's something to report there, you could > at least specify the correct URL. Slashdot is a news service. Their current lead story "Microsoft admits VinodV memo is authentic" contains several references corroborating the story. The URL is correct; I suggest your http cache may be giving you heartburn. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 15:32:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25302 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:32:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail3.svr.freeserve.net (mail3.svr.freeserve.net [194.152.65.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25282 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:32:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from modem-42.rhodium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.22.42] helo=ukonline.co.uk) by mail3.svr.freeserve.net with esmtp (Exim 2.05iplimit-2 #4) id 0zaTPp-0001Gq-00; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:29:42 +0000 Message-ID: <363E403D.1C294208@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:29:01 +0000 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103092720.Y354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811022259.OAA02040@dingo.cdrom.com> <19981103095033.D354@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 14:59:44 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >> On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 6:47:52 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >>> > >>> He does have one good point; if Microsoft persist in their > >>> already-manifest policy of "dec-commoditising" protocol information (as > >>> a facet of using their monopoly position to control the market), then we > >>> do face a truly desperate battle to continue to interoperate in a useful > >>> fashion. > >> > >> Indeed. In fact, even if this document is a forgery, this particular > >> issue remains valid. > > > > It's valid; see my previous post > > Which one? I thought I saw them all. > > > or http://slashdot.org > > You don't seriously expect me to do anything with that URL, do you? > All it tells me is that the FreeBSD core team is going to split into > two rival factions. If there's something to report there, you could > at least specify the correct URL. I believe it is on the front page, Microsoft appears to have confirmed the document in a conversation with a USA newspaper. As stated, http://www.slashdot.org/ Also: http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28215,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh Chris R. -- Christopher Raven E-mail: c.raven@ukonline.co.uk & ICQ: 2254369 http://www.FreeBSD.org/ "The power to serve" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 15:32:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25406 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25396 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:32:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA11777; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:02:14 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA20837; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:01:50 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981103100150.F354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:01:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103095033.D354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811022325.PAA02245@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811022325.PAA02245@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 03:25:12PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 15:25:12 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>>> Indeed. In fact, even if this document is a forgery, this particular >>>> issue remains valid. >>> >>> It's valid; see my previous post >> >> Which one? I thought I saw them all. >> >>> or http://slashdot.org >> >> You don't seriously expect me to do anything with that URL, do you? >> All it tells me is that the FreeBSD core team is going to split into >> two rival factions. If there's something to report there, you could >> at least specify the correct URL. > > Slashdot is a news service. Their current lead story "Microsoft admits > VinodV memo is authentic" contains several references corroborating the > story. Ah. OK. But http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/02/1721255.shtml would still have been a better URL. > The URL is correct; I suggest your http cache may be giving you > heartburn. Not at all. But most slashdot stuff is written by individuals. Apparently one message really does suggest that FreeBSD is about to split up--see today's -questions. This message is also apparently by an individual. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28215,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh seems to be more reliable there, but I'll really believe it when WSJ publishes it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 15:39:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26128 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26123 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:39:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02347; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:38:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811022338.PAA02347@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:01:50 +1030." <19981103100150.F354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 15:38:05 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Slashdot is a news service. Their current lead story "Microsoft admits > > VinodV memo is authentic" contains several references corroborating the > > story. > > Ah. OK. But http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/02/1721255.shtml > would still have been a better URL. I never went beyond the front page. > > The URL is correct; I suggest your http cache may be giving you > > heartburn. > > Not at all. But most slashdot stuff is written by individuals. > Apparently one message really does suggest that FreeBSD is about to > split up--see today's -questions. This message is also apparently by > an individual. Any idea where this message might be? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 15:40:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26362 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:40:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26349 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:40:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA11813; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:10:35 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA20862; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:10:22 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:10:21 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103100150.F354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811022338.PAA02347@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811022338.PAA02347@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 03:38:05PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 15:38:05 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>> Slashdot is a news service. Their current lead story "Microsoft admits >>> VinodV memo is authentic" contains several references corroborating the >>> story. >> >> Ah. OK. But http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/02/1721255.shtml >> would still have been a better URL. > > I never went beyond the front page. > >>> The URL is correct; I suggest your http cache may be giving you >>> heartburn. >> >> Not at all. But most slashdot stuff is written by individuals. >> Apparently one message really does suggest that FreeBSD is about to >> split up--see today's -questions. This message is also apparently by >> an individual. > > Any idea where this message might be? http://slashdot.org/ :-) I've asked him to send the URL. Maybe he will. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 16:00:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29644 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:00:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29631 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:00:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23733; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:59:24 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id RAA18527; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:58:53 -0600 Message-ID: <19981102175852.52206@right.PCS> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:58:52 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103100150.F354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811022338.PAA02347@dingo.cdrom.com> <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Nov 11, 1998 at 10:10:21AM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Nov 11, 1998 at 10:10:21AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 15:38:05 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >>> Slashdot is a news service. Their current lead story "Microsoft admits > >>> VinodV memo is authentic" contains several references corroborating the > >>> story. > >> > >> Ah. OK. But http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/02/1721255.shtml > >> would still have been a better URL. > > > > I never went beyond the front page. > > > >>> The URL is correct; I suggest your http cache may be giving you > >>> heartburn. > >> > >> Not at all. But most slashdot stuff is written by individuals. > >> Apparently one message really does suggest that FreeBSD is about to > >> split up--see today's -questions. This message is also apparently by > >> an individual. > > > > Any idea where this message might be? > > http://slashdot.org/ :-) > > I've asked him to send the URL. Maybe he will. http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/01/177215.shtml It was part of the responses that were discussing the latest record set by Walnut Creek and FreeBSD. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 17:12:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11502 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:08:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11402; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:08:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199811030108.RAA11402@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-Reply-To: <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 3, 98 10:10:21 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:08:08 -0800 (PST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org its FUD....genuine microsoft FUD. microsoft is in the middle of alawsuit with the federal gov't, perhaps the only organization with enough money and lawyers to beat them in court. the greatest possible, not most probable, danger to microsoft is that hte company will be split into an OS branch and an applications branch (cf ATT and the baby bells) to disprove the gov'ts case, microsoft will take action vigorously in and out of court. the Vinod Valloppillil is an example. witness these two quotes in the news.com article (http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28215,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh): 1. "Clearly, there is real and tangible competition in the operating systems market and as a company that makes operating systems, Microsoft is clearly paying attention," said spokesman Adam Sohn. "We're examining competitive issues all the time." 2. "Relative to other OSS projects, Mozilla is considered to be one of the most direct, near-term attacks on the Microsoft establishment. This factor alone is probably a key galvanizing factor in motivating developers towards the Mozilla codebase," the memo says. "The availability of Mozilla source code has renewed Netscape's credibility in the browser space to a small degree." Please dont find against us judge, we cant barely defend ourselves against this new threat...... ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 17:57:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17838 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:57:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17821 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:57:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA12359; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:26:47 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA21052; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:26:31 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981103122624.L354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:26:24 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103100150.F354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811022338.PAA02347@dingo.cdrom.com> <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com> <19981102175852.52206@right.PCS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981102175852.52206@right.PCS>; from Jonathan Lemon on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 05:58:52PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 17:58:52 -0600, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > On Nov 11, 1998 at 10:10:21AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 15:38:05 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>>>> Slashdot is a news service. Their current lead story "Microsoft admits >>>>> VinodV memo is authentic" contains several references corroborating the >>>>> story. >>>> >>>> Ah. OK. But http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/02/1721255.shtml >>>> would still have been a better URL. >>> >>> I never went beyond the front page. >>> >>>>> The URL is correct; I suggest your http cache may be giving you >>>>> heartburn. >>>> >>>> Not at all. But most slashdot stuff is written by individuals. >>>> Apparently one message really does suggest that FreeBSD is about to >>>> split up--see today's -questions. This message is also apparently by >>>> an individual. >>> >>> Any idea where this message might be? >> >> http://slashdot.org/ :-) >> >> I've asked him to send the URL. Maybe he will. > > http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/01/177215.shtml > > It was part of the responses that were discussing the latest > record set by Walnut Creek and FreeBSD. Thanks. If you read the messages from "anonymous coward", you'll notice that he's all over the place, contradicting himself from one message to the next, probably depending on what he's smoking. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 18:04:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18981 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:04:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18959 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:04:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23971; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:01:39 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id UAA27834; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:01:08 -0600 Message-ID: <19981102200108.16638@right.PCS> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:01:08 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103100150.F354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811022338.PAA02347@dingo.cdrom.com> <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com> <19981102175852.52206@right.PCS> <19981103122624.L354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <19981103122624.L354@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Nov 11, 1998 at 12:26:24PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Nov 11, 1998 at 12:26:24PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 17:58:52 -0600, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/01/177215.shtml > > > > It was part of the responses that were discussing the latest > > record set by Walnut Creek and FreeBSD. > > Thanks. If you read the messages from "anonymous coward", you'll > notice that he's all over the place, contradicting himself from one > message to the next, probably depending on what he's smoking. Actually, it seems that ``Anonymous Coward'' is not a single person, but a catchall identifier for anyone who wants to post a message, but doesn't want to 1) be identified, 2) go to the trouble of registering. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 18:05:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19130 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:05:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19118 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:05:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03098; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:01:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811030201.SAA03098@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: Jonathan Lemon , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:26:24 +1030." <19981103122624.L354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 18:01:49 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >>> Any idea where this message might be? > >> > >> http://slashdot.org/ :-) > >> > >> I've asked him to send the URL. Maybe he will. > > > > http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/01/177215.shtml > > > > It was part of the responses that were discussing the latest > > record set by Walnut Creek and FreeBSD. > > Thanks. If you read the messages from "anonymous coward", you'll > notice that he's all over the place, contradicting himself from one > message to the next, probably depending on what he's smoking. You need to spend more time on slashdot, Greg. 8) "Anonymous Coward" is an anonymous posting. From anyone. The person that best fits the description you're offering is MEEPT. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 18:09:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19923 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:09:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19906 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:09:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from snowfox@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (snowfox@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA20014 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:09:36 -0600 (CST) Received: (from snowfox@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id UAA06560 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:09:35 -0600 (CST) From: Message-Id: <199811030209.UAA06560@Mars.mcs.net> Subject: An Explosion at the Bazaar To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:09:35 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org An Explosion at the Bazaar I've thought of writing a series of documents along these lines for some time, and today's Halloween document made me itch. I saw a lot of my own ideas in this document and its thoughtful analysis, and new ones exploded within me. A hefty thank-you to Microsoft(?) and everyone who had something to say about the document. I'd be interested in knowing whether others share an interest in this type of analysis and proposal. Given some feedback, I plan to edit the following document and find a home for it on the web, possibly splitting it into three more documents and creating a discussion board for each. Other needful topics I'd like to give voice to are: OSS implementation of open protocols for closed systems Visual system and deployment diagramming (UML) The discussion, advancement and enhanced visibility of mature software development methodologies C++ migration and component interfacing The ongoing application of use cases and use studies against a broader market An active, unified PR unit A developer support unit targeting hopeful new programmers A graphical design unit Programmer- and artist-target PR and recruiting units A non-monetary reward (recognition) program The first, rough draft then - An Explosion at the Bazaar - Are We Ready? Open Source Software is at a critical juncture. Various OSS UNIX flavors are gaining greater visibility every day. Intel, Oracle, Sun, Silicon Graphics, all the major players are buying into the OSS development model. RedHat stands ready to break new ground, not only in corporate environments, but also in end-users' homes. Advocacy groups are leveraging the current Microsoft court fiasco to raise the visibility of OSS projects and the promises that they deliver upon. OSS projects have never been so well known as they are today. But are we ready? Can we maintain the integrity of the OSS promise and support it through the phenomenal growth ahead? I believe this is a critical question; let me restate it: As OSS projects realize new applications and user bases, can they continue to be successfully deployed? The traditional OSS user has been a technically adept UNIX technician or a technical hobbyist. The UNIX technician learns and understands the complexities of system operation. His job depends on it, and the intricate understanding of the system necessary to make it function is his key asset. The hobbyist thrives on the complexities of system operation; her love for the software being used is often seeded in the very fact that it can be difficult to deploy. This creates the critical sense of ownership of the system and the necessary knowledge - this is, indeed, the very same attraction that has pushed technically adept users to embrace and extend OSS! The State of the System The Internet has grown at an alarming rate. Intranets: exponentially. Company LANs are standard. Corporations and consumer alike have realized the incredible benefits they offer. The need for new installations has exploded. This has necessitated the induction of individuals to staff IT divisions who are no longer technically adept; the existing pools have been long-exhausted. The result of this is that package solutions, usually provided by Microsoft, have become the rule. Smaller departments and organizations adopt these closed technologies, and as these departments grow, few are willing to replace the underlying technologies. "If it works, don't fix it." It is equally true that new computer users are paying a premium for easy-to-use, out of box solutions. Windows is almost universally the law in homes everywhere. And where the consumers go, the industry follows. This is true not only of consumer application development, but in skill base as well. Little Johnny makes good with a year's Windows experience and becomes the next IT department head on hobbyist skills alone is no longer the exception. It has fast become the standard. Ease of Use, Desirability of Deployment If the rapid growth of closed software is the problem, there is but a single response available to the OSS community: OSS must become simple to install, easier to use. OSS already represents the smallest purchase price. An operating system comparable to Windows NT can be had overnight at no cost to a person with a modem and a brave heart. Similarly, a CD-ROM set can be purchased with RedHat Linux or FreeBSD as well as an incredible suite of powerful applications for less than the cost of Windows 98. But does OSS represent the lowest TCO for a corporation, the easiest route for the new consumer? No. Both packages still require an extensive skill-set. On installing RedHat, one is faced with DiskDruid and a dead end if she isn't aware of just what partitions need to be created in order to create a functioning UNIX system. On installing FreeBSD, the user often needs to remove and adjust device configurations to merely load the installation utility. Both packages, even in their simplest and most straightforward modes of installation, present the user with a confounding number of technical details and alarming questions. It is entirely unreasonable to expect a user to know what I/O ports and interrupts are in use, or to think that they won't panic or feel so intimidated as to be insulted when they see a stream of ed0, sd0, ttyp1, etc. roll by. The simple, common response is to call the operating system a farce and turn toward the pretty vision of Windows and its graphical installation. I believe it would be rare for an individual without an organizational mandate or an attack of "alternative techno lust" to complete the installation. And certainly, neither OS is something I'd recommend to my mother when she asks, "Do you think you could set me up for e-mail?" Did you laugh? There's a critical point here, and a very good example of what I've just explained. I gave her DOS and she brought those skills to a large educational institution. Once they decided computers might be a nice way of managing their accounting, they turned to the accountant with computer experience and DOS became the rule. Later I gave her Windows, and she took those skills to her new job at the Northern Illinois Library System, which now thrives entirely on Windows '98 and Windows NT. NILS is now funding and educating smaller libraries that wish to deploy Internet connectivity. Consumers are now going to the library for their first taste of computing and all that it has to offer, and that first taste is a closed operating system with a well-known label. What if she'd been able to place a CD-ROM in her machine and fall in love with a little red daemon bouncing across the screen? He'd have been willing to ask her name and perhaps a password and do the rest for her. I wish she'd met a suave agent in a red hat, one who'd simply said, "Let me take care of the details, hon. The software's on me." At most, a user should be presented with a single, attractive screen of user options with a brave "Expert" button for the veteran. The rest of the installation should have been automated. A window manager with a reasonable set of default programs, all networking services intact, a daily help tip and an avatar helping with "Learning Experiments" for the curious... this should be the default installation. The rest would have been history: We would have seen Thousands of new installations stemming from her alone. What Do We Need? Firstly, it would be fair to acknowledge that Linux and FreeBSD have made commendably strong steps toward a Windows level of Plug and Play functionality. And while each comes closer every day, neither has yet met or surpassed it. Meeting the Windows ante in this regard is of absolute, critical importance! Secondly, I haven't seen the kind of focus on simple installation and wide deployment that is going to establish OSS of any type as a mainstream product by making it accessible to today's new IT professional or the home user, tomorrow's professional. The time for this came long ago, and the OSS effort will continue to suffer for it every day that it doesn't exist. Plug and Play With the advent of Plug and Play standards and the standardization of PCI and PCMCIA peripherals, Plug and Play has become a much more attainable goal. OSS development efforts have taken advantage of this. Legacy hardware will, however, be around for some time. If hardware needs to be disabled or removed to complete an install however, this is an error, a product defect. I've heard the Windows pundits chuckling over Microsoft's alleged mistake in destroying installations if users attempt to upgrade to Windows 98 with certain removable media devices powered on. Is locking during the install if FreeBSD hasn't correctly detected my Adaptec SCSI controller any less of an error? To see these errors removed, these types of device conflicts must be resolved more gracefully. The system must be scrubbed and analyzed, and to best do this, we need a concerted effort between all OSS OS developers. A common, accessible table of known hardware types and their appropriate drivers must be created. Problems which arise from incorrect hardware detection and how to resolve them must be made public knowledge. Teams shouldn't have to analyze each others' source to discover what works. I'm sure many of us remember the pains the XFree86 team took to elicit Diamond's and S3's cooperation in creating accelerated servers for their hardware. The effort would be furthered by a unified OSS driver division, capable of eliciting support and cooperation from hardware manufacturers. This can be accomplished by making UNIX support a desirable commodity, thus forcing manufacturers to aide the driver developers. How? The first step is branding. Create an "OSS Ready," or a "UNIX Ready" emblem, owned by the FSS. Allow cooperative manufacturers to display the emblem on their packaging. The manufacturers would then have a new selling point at little or no cost. And once a strong hardware manufacturer realizes the value in this and makes it an advertising commodity, other hardware manufacturers will be forced to follow suit. The development teams will be blessed with early hardware prototypes, ready documentation and the accessibility of the manufacturers' support engineers. And OSS OS projects will be able to leverage the higher visibility of open operating systems in further advertising efforts. Ease of Installation Currently, I know of no simple facility for creating easy installation applications. A standard suite of libraries need to be created to control an installation and configuration engine. RPM and FreeBSD packages are a step in the proper direction, however placing files is only the first step to a useful installation. Managing installed packages should be handled in a clean, orthogonal fashion. The same interface needs to be available to all packages which don't provide native graphical configuration options. If a clean configurator exists, if developers only need to create simple scripts for user actions and refashion man pages to allow inline links from the installation procedure, they WILL do it. This ease of configuration needs to exist from the moment the user is first asked a question. Reasonable defaults and aide in discerning the various options needs to exist from the first boot onward. This is the single step that could push the OSS OS ahead of systems such as Windows NT. Can you see a day where the new lone IT professional sits there, scratching his head and wondering what a Windows Primary Domain Controller is, thinking it might be easier to lead his company back to the helpful daemon after all? (Microsoft, Windows 98, Windows NT, Adaptec, Diamond, Plug-n- Play, RPM and Red Hat are registered trademarks. The author makes no claims of trademark ownership herein.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 18:16:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20878 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:16:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20871 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:16:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA12475; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:45:57 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA21108; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:45:56 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981103124556.P354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:45:56 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: Jonathan Lemon , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103122624.L354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811030201.SAA03098@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811030201.SAA03098@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 06:01:49PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 18:01:49 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>>>> Any idea where this message might be? >>>> >>>> http://slashdot.org/ :-) >>>> >>>> I've asked him to send the URL. Maybe he will. >>> >>> http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/01/177215.shtml >>> >>> It was part of the responses that were discussing the latest >>> record set by Walnut Creek and FreeBSD. >> >> Thanks. If you read the messages from "anonymous coward", you'll >> notice that he's all over the place, contradicting himself from one >> message to the next, probably depending on what he's smoking. > > You need to spend more time on slashdot, Greg. 8) >From what I've seen, you're dead wrong. > "Anonymous Coward" is an anonymous posting. From anyone. I stand corrected. At least it explains why he's so active and with different views all the time. > The person that best fits the description you're offering is MEEPT. Sorry, don't understand the FLEAT. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 18:20:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21188 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:20:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21183 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:20:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03218; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:19:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811030219.SAA03218@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:45:56 +1030." <19981103124556.P354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 18:19:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> Thanks. If you read the messages from "anonymous coward", you'll > >> notice that he's all over the place, contradicting himself from one > >> message to the next, probably depending on what he's smoking. > > > > You need to spend more time on slashdot, Greg. 8) > > From what I've seen, you're dead wrong. Like any news service, it's 90% junk. > > "Anonymous Coward" is an anonymous posting. From anyone. > > I stand corrected. At least it explains why he's so active and with > different views all the time. Yeah, it threw me for a while the first time too. > > The person that best fits the description you're offering is MEEPT. > > Sorry, don't understand the FLEAT. The handle of a particularly lusing luser. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 18:48:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24559 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24550; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:48:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA12643; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:18:10 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA21216; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:17:50 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981103131749.R354@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:17:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. References: <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com> <199811030108.RAA11402@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811030108.RAA11402@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Mon, Nov 02, 1998 at 05:08:08PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 November 1998 at 17:08:08 -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > its FUD....genuine microsoft FUD. > > > microsoft is in the middle of alawsuit with the federal > gov't, perhaps the only organization with enough money and > lawyers to beat them in court. the greatest possible, not > most probable, danger to microsoft is that hte company > will be split into an OS branch and an applications branch > (cf ATT and the baby bells) > > > to disprove the gov'ts case, microsoft will take action > vigorously in and out of court. the Vinod Valloppillil is > an example. witness these two quotes in the news.com > article > (http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28215,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh): > > 1. "Clearly, there is real and tangible competition in the > operating systems market and as a company that makes > operating systems, Microsoft is clearly paying attention," > said spokesman Adam Sohn. "We're examining competitive > issues all the time." > > 2. "Relative to other OSS projects, Mozilla is considered to be > one of the most direct, near-term attacks on the Microsoft > establishment. This factor alone is probably a key galvanizing > factor in motivating developers towards the Mozilla > codebase," the memo says. "The availability of Mozilla > source code has renewed Netscape's credibility in the > browser space to a small degree." > > Please dont find against us judge, we cant barely defend > ourselves against this new threat...... ;) That's only part of the story. The report also recommends: > Fold extended functionality into commodity protocols / services and > create new protocols > > Linux's homebase is currently commodity network and server > infrastructure. By folding extended functionality > (e.g. Storage+ in file systems, DAV/POD for networking) into > today's commodity services, we raise the bar & change the rules > of the game. I think that this would be significant ammunition against Microsoft in the suit. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 19:10:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27503 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27486; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:10:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199811030310.TAA27486@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-Reply-To: <19981103131749.R354@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 3, 98 01:17:49 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:10:37 -0800 (PST) Cc: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > That's only part of the story. The report also recommends: > > > Fold extended functionality into commodity protocols / services and > > create new protocols > > > > Linux's homebase is currently commodity network and server > > infrastructure. By folding extended functionality > > (e.g. Storage+ in file systems, DAV/POD for networking) into > > today's commodity services, we raise the bar & change the rules > > of the game. > > I think that this would be significant ammunition against Microsoft in > the suit. > a court might cosnider this plan of "implement and extend" to be innovation.....the technical issues and incompatiblilites would not be relevant to a court i aint a lawyer, but i have seen one played on tv. ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 19:11:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27546 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:11:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27541 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:11:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA01771; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:11:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981102200927.00c24ef0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:10:55 -0700 To: , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: An Explosion at the Bazaar In-Reply-To: <199811030209.UAA06560@Mars.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "An explosion at the bazaar?" First off, I'd change the title. Sounds too much like a Middle-Eastern terrorist attack. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 19:13:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27677 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27671; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:13:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03501; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:12:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811030312.TAA03501@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:10:37 PST." <199811030310.TAA27486@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:12:55 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > That's only part of the story. The report also recommends: > > > > > Fold extended functionality into commodity protocols / services and > > > create new protocols > > > > > > Linux's homebase is currently commodity network and server > > > infrastructure. By folding extended functionality > > > (e.g. Storage+ in file systems, DAV/POD for networking) into > > > today's commodity services, we raise the bar & change the rules > > > of the game. > > > > I think that this would be significant ammunition against Microsoft in > > the suit. > > > > a court might cosnider this plan of "implement and extend" > to be innovation.....the technical issues and incompatiblilites > would not be relevant to a court > > i aint a lawyer, but i have seen one played on tv. ;) The counterargument to this is "such a policy of implement-and-extend can be demonstrated only to be effective if the implementor-and-extendor has monopolostic control", and "it can be demonstrated that Microsoft employs lots of smart people that must already know this". -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 19:39:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00646 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:39:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite.sentex.ca [199.212.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00641 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:39:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from ospf-wat.sentex.net (ospf-wat.sentex.net [209.167.248.81]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA03151; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:39:03 -0500 (EST) From: mike@sentex.net (Mike Tancsa) To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft "Halloween document:" Authentic? Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 03:43:58 GMT Message-ID: <363e7b84.122812475@mail.sentex.net> References: <4.1.19981101223919.0462acd0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981101223919.0462acd0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 01 Nov 1998 22:54:07 -0700, in sentex.lists.freebsd.misc you wrote: >the end of the document, doesn't include a link to any *BSD Web sites.) It >also describes the presence of a core team, and coordination and vetting of >contributions to the code base, as weaknesses rather than strengths. Thats really funny because our organization after having experienced LINUX went to FreeBSD especially for this 'weakness'... ---Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 20:12:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04629 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04590; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:12:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA02352; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:12:02 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981102210931.047a4bd0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 21:11:48 -0700 To: Mike Smith , "Jonathan M. Bresler" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: The halloween document again. Cc: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811030312.TAA03501@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:12 PM 11/2/98 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >The counterargument to this is "such a policy of implement-and-extend >can be demonstrated only to be effective if the >implementor-and-extendor has monopolostic control", and "it can be >demonstrated that Microsoft employs lots of smart people that must >already know this". This lends credence to the notion that the document is an intentional leak, designed by Microsoft to create the impression that it feels threatened by open source software. This would make sense, because the "leak" coincides with Gates' testimony in the DoJ case. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 21:12:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12954 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:12:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclops.xtra.co.nz (cyclops.xtra.co.nz [202.27.184.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12947 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker (210-55-210-87.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.55.210.87]) by cyclops.xtra.co.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA06320 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:12:15 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199811030512.SAA06320@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: DVL Software Limited To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:12:14 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The halloween document again. Reply-to: junkmale@xtra.co.nz In-reply-to: <199811030108.RAA11402@hub.freebsd.org> References: <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 3, 98 10:10:21 am" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2 Nov 98, at 17:08, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > its FUD....genuine microsoft FUD. For those that may be wondering, as was I, it's Fear Undcertainty, and Doubt. I found the answer at: http://nightflight.com/cgi-bin/foldoc.cgi?query=FUD&action=Search -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 21:39:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15902 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:39:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15897 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:39:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA03032; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:38:53 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981102223735.04729e30@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:38:47 -0700 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-Reply-To: <199811030512.SAA06320@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> References: <199811030108.RAA11402@hub.freebsd.org> <19981103101021.H354@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:12 PM 11/3/98 +1300, Dan Langille wrote: >On 2 Nov 98, at 17:08, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > >> its FUD....genuine microsoft FUD. > >For those that may be wondering, as was I, it's Fear Undcertainty, and >Doubt. Or as in, "I am Bill H. FUD, Billionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht." --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 2 22:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA24148 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:35:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles144.castles.com [208.214.165.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24130; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:35:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03501; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:12:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811030312.TAA03501@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The halloween document again. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:10:37 PST." <199811030310.TAA27486@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:12:55 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > That's only part of the story. The report also recommends: > > > > > Fold extended functionality into commodity protocols / services and > > > create new protocols > > > > > > Linux's homebase is currently commodity network and server > > > infrastructure. By folding extended functionality > > > (e.g. Storage+ in file systems, DAV/POD for networking) into > > > today's commodity services, we raise the bar & change the rules > > > of the game. > > > > I think that this would be significant ammunition against Microsoft in > > the suit. > > > > a court might cosnider this plan of "implement and extend" > to be innovation.....the technical issues and incompatiblilites > would not be relevant to a court > > i aint a lawyer, but i have seen one played on tv. ;) The counterargument to this is "such a policy of implement-and-extend can be demonstrated only to be effective if the implementor-and-extendor has monopolostic control", and "it can be demonstrated that Microsoft employs lots of smart people that must already know this". -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 06:32:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15062 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:32:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15049 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:32:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from snowfox@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (snowfox@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA19069 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:32:47 -0600 (CST) Received: (from snowfox@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id IAA03942 for FreeBSD-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:32:47 -0600 (CST) From: Message-Id: <199811031432.IAA03942@Mars.mcs.net> Subject: Re: An Explosion at the Bazaar To: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:32:47 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981102200927.00c24ef0@127.0.0.1> from "Brett Glass" at Nov 2, 98 08:10:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > "An explosion at the bazaar?" > > First off, I'd change the title. Sounds too much like a Middle-Eastern > terrorist attack. I sure hope that's not the -only- feedback I'm going to get. ;) One of the worst things that could happen to open software would be the Windows NT line attaining stability similar to what Windows 98 has. For most coporations, a lack of stability is seen as NT's only major shortcoming. Few worry that Microsoft might disappear, and fewer still care whether one company holds all the standards: it simply doesn't factor in when you're looking for the cheapest, easiest solution to an IT department that's growing faster than you can throw qualified new hires at it. Microsoft *is* the preferred solution, and stability may be the only thing holding it back from a default win. I'd still love to hear others' views on this as well as comments on my previous posting. Cheers - Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 07:02:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18654 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:02:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18645; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:02:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01467; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:01:59 GMT Message-ID: <363F1AE6.BBBCC89@tdx.co.uk> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:01:58 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel Baker CC: Sam Eaton , Julian Elischer , Greg Lehey , Warner Losh , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft's Open Source strategy (was: Ariel Faigon: The Holloween Document (fwd)) References: <19981102172140.J354@freebie.lemis.com> <19981103133312.E15717@pavilion.net> <19981103085254.E23407@wrangler.cuckoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Daniel Baker wrote: > While quite interesting, I don't find the article incredibly incriminating; > had a Linux bigot who wasn't employed by Microsoft written a similar memo, > it wouldn't have attracted the huge masses of attention that this memo > has simply because the general population views Vinod's opinions as somewhat > more authoritative because he's one of the thousands of people that > Micrsofot employees. Why not move this onto -chat? - It looks like it's a thread that's going to run for a while, and -hackers is probably not the best of places? ;-) Regards, Karl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 08:18:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27360 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:18:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27355 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:18:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (8.9.1a+3.1W/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA02861; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:10:54 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:10:54 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Berlin To: Sam Eaton cc: Julian Elischer , Greg Lehey , Warner Losh , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft's Open Source strategy (was: Ariel Faigon: The Holloween Document (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <19981103133312.E15717@pavilion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Sam Eaton wrote: > So looks like it might well be for real. I'll settle this issue rather quickly. I saw it in august when i was up at MS in Redmond. It's indeed real. The rest i won't comment on, as i'm too sick right now to think. --Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 09:07:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05824 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:07:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA05816 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:07:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id JRBBHQWJ; Tue, 03 Nov 98 17:07:31 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981103180729.0096b100@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 18:07:29 +0100 To: Robert Watson From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: IPv6 in -current Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA05817 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >So, finally having found an OED, here is some etymology: [...] >This suggests, "I'd Rather". But it's a little hard to say. I wonder >whether we couldn't rename sysctl to druther. >druther -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 I second that ;) >Maybe all followups should be sent to freebsd-chat. :) Indeed. :) .oO[š Marius Bendiksen š]Oo. Dead girls don't say no. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 10:50:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20761 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:50:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA20747 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:50:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id JRBWJGMJ; Tue, 03 Nov 98 18:33:55 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981103193353.009bcd90@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 19:33:53 +0100 To: Alfred Perlstein From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: df hangs on 2.2.6-BETA Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981103180944.0096b210@mail.scancall.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA20757 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >What process specifically hangs for you? only df? is it the NFS issue? I don't track -stable anymore. >> .oO[š Marius Bendiksen š]Oo. >> Dead girls don't say no. >I hope that's some sort of literary referance. yuk. Actually, it's a reference to Cradle of Filth. They don't cry, either. .oO[š Marius Bendiksen š]Oo. Dead girls don't say no. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 12:23:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04288 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from PeeCee.tbe.com (firewallx.tbe.com [192.88.94.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04274 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:22:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@PeeCee.tbe.com) Received: from PeeCee.tbe.com (localhost.tbe.com [127.0.0.1]) by PeeCee.tbe.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25292 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:21:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@PeeCee.tbe.com) Message-Id: <199811032021.OAA25292@PeeCee.tbe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: We're either behind, or ahead, I can't tell From: David Kelly Reply-To: David Kelly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:21:51 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html says a full Linux distribution has ~10 million lines of code. And the Linux x86 kernel is 500k lines. PeeCee: {1019} find /usr/src -type f -exec cat "{}" \; | wc -l 4968728 PeeCee: {1020} find /usr/src/sys -type f -exec cat "{}" \; | wc -l 680163 PeeCee: {1021} Are we winning because FreeBSD has less bloat (5M vs 10M) and because we obviously must have more device drivers with better comments (680k vs 500k)? :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nebula.tbe.com ======================================================================== Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 14:17:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22255 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:17:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA22240 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:17:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 16023 invoked from network); 3 Nov 1998 22:17:14 -0000 Received: from adam.enteract.com (jrs@206.54.252.1) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 22:17:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:17:14 -0600 (CST) From: John Sconiers To: Damon Permezel cc: Steve Byrne , gunther@aurora.rg.iupui.edu, patrick@cre8tivegroup.com, freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sun Ports JDK to Linux In-Reply-To: <199811032053.OAA00132@damon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This flawless linux compatability must be what makes my netscape (all verions > I've tried) regularly dump core with EMT trap! > I don't want to rag on FreeBSD. I am sad to see freeBSD fall behind. > Particularly linux. However, I kept running into reasons why I should > consider linux, and finally overcame my resistance. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message I don't know what version of FreeBSD your running ....however my netscape 3 and 4.05 browser works with 2.2.7 and 3.0....... Your thoughts are taken in stride however Linux is different from FreeBSD in the same token that OS2 is different than Windows. The developers of FreeBSD can not implement "flawless linux compatibilty" because of the effect it would have on the direction of the OS. FreeBSD is not a distribution of Linux with a different name. While they seek to port Linux utilities and programs....the overall goal, implementation and outlook is different. If Linux is the right choice for you......then maybe you should switch. JOHN CC'd to chat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 14:22:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23005 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:22:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22995; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:22:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4004.ime.net [209.90.195.14]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA14414; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:21:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981103171800.00a90cb0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:19:52 -0500 To: John Sconiers , Damon Permezel From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sun Ports JDK to Linux Cc: Steve Byrne , gunther@aurora.rg.iupui.edu, patrick@cre8tivegroup.com, freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199811032053.OAA00132@damon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:17 PM 11/3/98 -0600, John Sconiers wrote: >> This flawless linux compatability must be what makes my netscape (all verions >> I've tried) regularly dump core with EMT trap! >> I don't want to rag on FreeBSD. I am sad to see freeBSD fall behind. >> Particularly linux. However, I kept running into reasons why I should >> consider linux, and finally overcame my resistance. >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message > > >I don't know what version of FreeBSD your running ....however my netscape >3 and 4.05 browser works with 2.2.7 and 3.0....... > >Your thoughts are taken in stride however Linux is different from FreeBSD >in the same token that OS2 is different than Windows. The developers of >FreeBSD can not implement "flawless linux compatibilty" because of the >effect it would have on the direction of the OS. FreeBSD is not a >distribution of Linux with a different name. While they seek to port >Linux utilities and programs....the overall goal, implementation and >outlook is different. > >If Linux is the right choice for you......then maybe you should >switch. > > >JOHN > > >CC'd to chat > I second the working with FreeBSD 3.0 part. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 16:06:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09791 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:06:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cs.uoregon.edu (vitalstatistix.cs.uoregon.edu [128.223.202.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09674 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:05:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wcarey@cs.uoregon.edu) Received: from ix.cs.uoregon.edu (wcarey@ix.cs.uoregon.edu [128.223.4.21]) by cs.uoregon.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA29476 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:05:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov (beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.38.90]) by cs.uoregon.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA22493 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:05:52 -0800 (PST) X-Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA27002 for beowulf-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:50:34 -0500 X-Received: from cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.38.12]) by beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26999 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:50:33 -0500 X-Received: from bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU (bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.131.202]) by cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27610 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:51:11 -0500 X-Received: from bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25675; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:52:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199811031852.KAA25675@bhikku.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: cs@millennium.berkeley.edu, extreme-linux@acl.lanl.gov, beowulf@cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Microsoft Open Source document From: Matt Welsh Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:52:12 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Microsoft has confirmed that the following document, leaked to Eric Raymond, is authentic. It's a study of "Open Source" systems, and Linux in particular, with respect to Microsoft's marketing strategy. It appears as though the document was meant to be read by Bill Gates. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/halloween.html There are some very interesting quotes here (reproduced below), whereby Microsoft intends to "deny OSS projects entry into the market". I boycott Microsoft in all of my research and personal computer use activities. It is clearly dangerous to be working with a corporation which intends to close out industry-standard and OSS systems with its own technology. I also feel that as Computer Scientists we have a duty to support viable alternatives to Microsoft systems -- regardless of how good or bad Microsoft systems might be. If Computer Scientists and other educated individuals don't stand up to the Microsoft monopoly, who will? As such I simply refuse to use Microsoft systems for anything -- from developing research code to writing talks. In the coming weeks I'll be making my "Boycott Microsoft" site online with a set of reccommendations for those who want to do the same. If you're interested in contributing to this effort please let me know! Matt Welsh, mdw@cs.berkeley.edu UC Berkeley Computer Science Division -- Quotes from the Microsoft OSS document: * OSS poses a direct, short-term revenue and platform threat to Microsoft, particularly in server space. Additionally, the intrinsic parallelism and free idea exchange in OSS has benefits that are not replicable with our current licensing model and therefore present a long term developer mindshare threat. * Recent case studies (the Internet) provide very dramatic evidence ... that commercial quality can be achieved / exceeded by OSS projects. * ...to understand how to compete against OSS, we must target a process rather than a company. * OSS is long-term credible ... FUD tactics can not be used to combat it. * Linux and other OSS advocates are making a progressively more credible argument that OSS software is at least as robust -- if not more -- than commercial alternatives. The Internet provides an ideal, high-visibility showcase for the OSS world. * Linux has been deployed in mission critical, commercial environments with an excellent pool of public testimonials. ... Linux outperforms many other UNIXes ... Linux is on track to eventually own the x86 UNIX market ... * Linux can win as long as services / protocols are commodities. * OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols. By extending these protocols and developing new protocols, we can deny OSS projects entry into the market. * The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. More importantly, OSS evangelization scales with the size of the Internet much faster than our own evangelization efforts appear to scale. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 16:41:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16193 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:41:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from room101.advansys.net (room101.advansys.net [209.100.148.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA16188 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:41:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jayrich@room101.advansys.net) Received: (qmail 2165 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Nov 1998 00:42:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:42:25 -0500 (EST) From: Jay Richmond To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: rootshell Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If any of you have been following the Rootshell web site hack and/or the rumored SSH problems, this strikes me as kindof funny: Look at the entry on rootshell.com's news page (the default page) when they described the hack with a link to the page: rootshell.com - Archive of defaced site. But for every other news item they've written about other sites beeing messed up by hackers the link says: Slashdot Hacked Archive of hacked site. Women Online Archive of hacked site. etc., etc. ...jay -- Jay Richmond jayrich@advansys.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 19:33:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06059 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06054 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:33:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id EAA10302 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:33:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m0zarR8-000WyaC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Wed, 4 Nov 1998 02:08:38 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 02:08:38 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We're either behind, or ahead, I can't tell In-Reply-To: <199811032021.OAA25292@PeeCee.tbe.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <199811032021.OAA25292@PeeCee.tbe.com>, David Kelly wrote: > http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html says a full Linux distribution > has ~10 million lines of code. "A full Linux distribution" is somewhat ill-defined. It could mean something like FreeBSD, or it could mean something like FreeBSD plus all ports. Or something arbitrary in between. BTW, Linux 2.0.33 minus arch/{alpha,m68k,mips,ppc,sparc} turns in at 787531 lines. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de See another pointless homepage at . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 19:39:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07137 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:39:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07132 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:39:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4022.ime.net [209.90.195.32]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id WAA14712; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:39:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981103223440.00a91340@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:36:55 -0500 To: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: We're either behind, or ahead, I can't tell In-Reply-To: References: <199811032021.OAA25292@PeeCee.tbe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:08 AM 11/4/98 +0100, Christian Weisgerber wrote: >In article <199811032021.OAA25292@PeeCee.tbe.com>, >David Kelly wrote: > >> http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html says a full Linux distribution >> has ~10 million lines of code. > >"A full Linux distribution" is somewhat ill-defined. It could mean >something like FreeBSD, or it could mean something like FreeBSD plus all >ports. Or something arbitrary in between. > >BTW, Linux 2.0.33 minus arch/{alpha,m68k,mips,ppc,sparc} turns in at >787531 lines. > >-- >Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de > See another pointless homepage at . > Or it could be someone trying to BS in order to gain power over those who wouldn't bother to count.. :-) High numbers can be intimidating sometimes. As it goes, most of the people I work with would be IMPRESSED with the number of lines like "Wow, that must mean it can do a lot", instead of like "Oh yeah, it's unstreamlined bullshit"... Sometimes it's good to work with people that just use the machines and don't care about the behind the scenes stuff. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 20:17:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12873 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:17:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (port-6-ts1-gnv.da.fdt.net [209.212.132.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12867 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:17:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Message-Id: <199811040417.XAA12855@ocalhost> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199811032021.OAA25292@PeeCee.tbe.com> From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:17:27 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We're either behind, or ahead, I can't tell References: <199811032021.OAA25292@PeeCee.tbe.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Author: David Kelly Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:21:51 -0600 ID: <199811032021.OAA25292@PeeCee.tbe.com> > http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html says a full Linux distribution > has ~10 million lines of code. And the Linux x86 kernel is 500k lines. Yeah, and doesn't Win95 has about that much for backwards compatibility with Win3.1? And we all know how great an OS that is, so Linux must be better! TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 20:19:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12992 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:19:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12985 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:19:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-206.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.206]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA57288 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:19:40 GMT Message-ID: <363FE32C.BB77B313@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 21:16:28 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: new look Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bravo on the new homepage look! Like the FreeBSD Mall in the lower left, too! -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [dwilde1 @ ibm.net] [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 20:33:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14222 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:33:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from luomat.peak.org (port-6-ts1-gnv.da.fdt.net [209.212.132.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14214 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:33:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luomat@luomat.peak.org) Message-Id: <199811040433.XAA13368@ocalhost> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <363FE32C.BB77B313@ibm.net> From: Timothy J Luoma Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:33:34 -0500 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new look References: <363FE32C.BB77B313@ibm.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Author: Don Wilde Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 21:16:28 -0800 ID: <363FE32C.BB77B313@ibm.net> > Bravo on the new homepage look! Like the FreeBSD Mall in the lower left, > too! ditto I like it very much.... appears much more logical and easier on the eyes when it comes up. TjL To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 22:48:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01483 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:48:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freedom.cybertouch.org (h24-64-143-218.mt.wave.shaw.ca [24.64.143.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01477 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beef@mail.cybertouch.org) Received: from wired (h24-64-143-197.mt.wave.shaw.ca [24.64.143.197]) by freedom.cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA22068 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:47:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from beef@mail.cybertouch.org) Message-Id: <199811040647.BAA22068@freedom.cybertouch.org> From: beef@cybertouch.org To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:46:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: enough about linux and microshit X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What with all of you? You have nothing better to do than care about what other os's are doing? For fucks sakes, I went out and showed people what my FreeBSD (now under the name Freedom Software) can do. They shit them selves. Go see what people want in business and stop the crap about what linux is doing (like banning on #linux on efnet if you ask a question considered lame). If you think microshit is better the rm -Rf * your system. I want to tell you all that about 3 year ago, when I was only learning about computers seriously, and had my family invest, with microFUCK, we lost everything. But at the end when I found out about FreeBSD, Jordan Hubbard tried to help us out. Go see if gates ( that puke) or linus torvalds will help you out. Oh I must mention Greg Lehey, our, yes OUR great writer, has helped me to the point that I can build a file server. In fact this week I have sales people coming from a cable company that sells cable modem for internet, to see a FreeBSD operating system. The thing is that I could not give a shit what others have. I look at what the PEOPLE want. And they want a solution to being ripped off. That does not mean to give it out for free. It means being fair but in the same token, making a living. In the industry which i know well, the major players have shared information on kill standards, processing and safety for years. They all profit well. But not on a percentage basis. Look at the NAME itself FREEbsd. People like something for nothing. Thats life. But in the fine scheme of things, FreeBSD wont be free forever. Why? Because the base operating system may be 30 or 50 dollars, the ppl that have to set it up for companies and business's will profit well. And why not? They had to learn an awful lot. But this bullshit about what companies are looking at linux or oss, is a bunch of bs. Just get off your ass, go to smaller offices and demonstrate what FreeBSD with some of the ports for a business can do for them. Don't worry, they will, on their own, see the light through the forest. Unless you want to tell them what the micorshit or linux camps are doing. If you all would fight a war in the same way you keep yakking about these no-go-anywhere white papers, companies making business materials for linux. You loose. When I was in Israel, we gave not a flying fuck what the states said or did. We did it OUR way. I feel for Jordan and Greg Lehey, who have to constantly reply to bullshit about microshit and luunix. If you all really cared for and appreciated what golden opportunity we have here, there would be more discussion on how to help the owners of FreeBSD grow. Stop comparing. Do you think when we attack in war we compare like your american television protrays? Heh, if you really think that you are better suited for winshit 98. Just go to warez site and pick up a FreeWinDoZe98. And while I am bitching about the bs in the mail these days. Tell me, you must agree there are a lot of books on winshit and luunix. But very few on FreeBSD. Ever wonder why? Put it this way, you can slide further in shit than in gravel. Gravel is strong and stays, while shit is slippery and dissappears. Well we have solid rock. FreeBSD. Stop the whinnig and be part of the marketing solution. Jordan, Greg and company are constantly making OUR system untouchable by other operating systems. We just need some really good word of mouth publicity before the media starts to pay real attention to the ultimate operating system Well my fellow FreeBSD'ers go out and push to every book store, university book store, computer store. Go to business;s and demonstrate what is not on the paper, television and other media. The best operating system in existance FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 3 22:58:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02506 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02498 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:56:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4040.ime.net [209.90.195.50]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id BAA15010; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:55:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981104015045.00a8e540@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 01:53:56 -0500 To: beef@cybertouch.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit In-Reply-To: <199811040647.BAA22068@freedom.cybertouch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:46 AM 11/4/98 -0500, beef@cybertouch.org wrote: > What with all of you? You have nothing better to do than care >about what other os's are doing? For fucks sakes, I went out and >showed people what my FreeBSD (now under the name Freedom >Software) can do. They shit them selves. Go see what people want >in business and stop the crap about what linux is doing (like >banning on #linux on efnet if you ask a question considered lame). >If you think microshit is better the rm -Rf * your system. > > I want to tell you all that about 3 year ago, when I was only >learning about computers seriously, and had my family invest, with >microFUCK, we lost everything. But at the end when I found out >about FreeBSD, Jordan Hubbard tried to help us out. Go see if >gates ( that puke) or linus torvalds will help you out. Oh I must >mention Greg Lehey, our, yes OUR great writer, has helped me to >the point that I can build a file server. > > In fact this week I have sales people coming from a cable >company that sells cable modem for internet, to see a FreeBSD >operating system. The thing is that I could not give a shit what >others have. I look at what the PEOPLE want. And they want a >solution to being ripped off. That does not mean to give it out for >free. It means being fair but in the same token, making a living. > > In the industry which i know well, the major players have >shared information on kill standards, processing and safety for >years. They all profit well. But not on a percentage basis. > > Look at the NAME itself FREEbsd. People like something for >nothing. Thats life. But in the fine scheme of things, FreeBSD wont >be free forever. Why? Because the base operating system may be >30 or 50 dollars, the ppl that have to set it up for companies and >business's will profit well. And why not? They had to learn an awful >lot. > But this bullshit about what companies are looking at linux or >oss, is a bunch of bs. Just get off your ass, go to smaller offices >and demonstrate what FreeBSD with some of the ports for a >business can do for them. Don't worry, they will, on their own, see >the light through the forest. Unless you want to tell them what the >micorshit or linux camps are doing. If you all would fight a war in >the same way you keep yakking about these no-go-anywhere white >papers, companies making business materials for linux. You loose. >When I was in Israel, we gave not a flying fuck what the states said >or did. We did it OUR way. I feel for Jordan and Greg Lehey, who >have to constantly reply to bullshit about microshit and luunix. If >you all really cared for and appreciated what golden opportunity we >have here, there would be more discussion on how to help the >owners of FreeBSD grow. Stop comparing. Do you think when we >attack in war we compare like your american television protrays? >Heh, if you really think that you are better suited for winshit 98. >Just go to warez site and pick up a FreeWinDoZe98. > > And while I am bitching about the bs in the mail these days. >Tell me, you must agree there are a lot of books on winshit and >luunix. But very few on FreeBSD. Ever wonder why? Put it this >way, you can slide further in shit than in gravel. Gravel is strong >and stays, while shit is slippery and dissappears. Well we have >solid rock. FreeBSD. Stop the whinnig and be part of the >marketing solution. Jordan, Greg and company are constantly >making OUR system untouchable by other operating systems. We >just need some really good word of mouth publicity before the >media starts to pay real attention to the ultimate operating system > > Well my fellow FreeBSD'ers go out and push to every book >store, university book store, computer store. Go to business;s and >demonstrate what is not on the paper, television and other media. >The best operating system in existance > > FreeBSD > Except for your creative use of profanity, I must say, I'm inspired. We use our FreeBSD machine here for a ton of stuff, including my web servers and my DNS servers. People that have asked me to do work for them hold FreeBSD boxes that are running as PPP-Ethernet routers and Quake servers for BBSes. I must say, that's pretty damn good. Most of the perl scripts and other things like that are all built around the tools inside FreeBSD as well. I don't plan to change that, and if suddenly FreeBSD falls off the earth for some reason, I'm probably just going to say 'the hell with it' and find my dream career as a prostitute.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 01:17:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22819 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22813 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:17:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id BAA23484 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:16:55 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id BAA20443 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:16:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:16:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Pantyhose Devil In-Reply-To: <19981104055718.15999.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Phone Numbers wrote in -questions: >I'm not sure whether or not you have copyrighted Chuc, but in any case, >he's on www.caressable.com, advertising lingerie. I think he's much >better suited to UNIX personally. :) The PANTYHOSE DEVIL!!!! Good grief. Call out the Militia. The whole Internet's gone all to hell. The least they could have done is picked a model with nice legs. If I was the normally easy going Kirk McKusick my head would split wide open spontaneously. I wonder if we could name him the "lingeried". Sound it out phonetically like "lawn-zher-raid". Given this context it makes for an interesting daemon name, eh? The panty raiding BSD daemon. At least he is not stabbing a penguin! :) Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 02:51:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02686 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 02:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freedom.cybertouch.org (h24-64-143-218.mt.wave.shaw.ca [24.64.143.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02681 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 02:51:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beef@freedom.cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by freedom.cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA24624; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:50:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from beef@freedom.cybertouch.org) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:50:05 -0500 (EST) From: Lanny Baron To: Drew Baxter cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981104015045.00a8e540@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Except for your creative use of profanity, I must say, I'm inspired. > > We use our FreeBSD machine here for a ton of stuff, including my web > servers and my DNS servers. > > People that have asked me to do work for them hold FreeBSD boxes that are > running as PPP-Ethernet routers and Quake servers for BBSes. I must say, > that's pretty damn good. > > Most of the perl scripts and other things like that are all built around > the tools inside FreeBSD as well. I don't plan to change that, and if > suddenly FreeBSD falls off the earth for some reason, I'm probably just > going to say 'the hell with it' and find my dream career as a prostitute.. > > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 Finally, some really good things to hear for FreeBSD. The use of profanity was just a release of total frustration to the garbage of linux and micro$oft. We (FreeBSD users) are the people that can turn the hard work and aspirations of the inventors/owners of the great platform they have made for us, to a rocketing success. In my opinion FreeBSD is going more towards the business community. A total welcome. I have just set a channel on the efnet (irc) for people who wish to share idea's for commercial use of FreeBSD and its great possibilities. Thanks for your comments, Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 07:36:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12065 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:36:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12060 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA19440; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:35:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA13375; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:35:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:35:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199811041535.IAA13375@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Inconceivable... (was Re: scanf in the kernel?) In-Reply-To: <199811032237.PAA22900@usr09.primenet.com> References: <199811032054.MAA00380@dingo.cdrom.com> <199811032237.PAA22900@usr09.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Moved to -chat ] Terry writes: .... > I feel like like Andre the Giant trying to explain the correct usage > of "inconcievable" to Vizini the Sicilian in "The Princess Bride". Umm, it wasn't Andre the Giant doing that, it was the swordsman 'Inigo Montoya'. (I've seen the movie so many times I can't even count since it's my wife's favorite movie of all times. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 08:57:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22431 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:57:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA22426 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id JRTHGRXJ; Wed, 04 Nov 98 16:57:17 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981104175715.00933d00@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 17:57:15 +0100 To: garman@earthling.net From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: samba smbd core dumps & -current Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811041549.HAA13468@hub.freebsd.org> References: <19981104075828.C8935@Denninger.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:49 04.11.98 -0500, you wrote: > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message > yourhost: /kernel 00:00 00 Nov 98 sendmail: process exited on signal 11 (core dumped) ? --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 08:58:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22886 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:58:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22785 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:58:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22276; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:57:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd022227; Wed Nov 4 09:57:35 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA23259; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:57:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811041657.JAA23259@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Inconceivable... (was Re: scanf in the kernel?) To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:57:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811041535.IAA13375@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Nov 4, 98 08:35:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > .... > > I feel like like Andre the Giant trying to explain the correct usage > > of "inconcievable" to Vizini the Sicilian in "The Princess Bride". > > Umm, it wasn't Andre the Giant doing that, it was the swordsman 'Inigo > Montoya'. > > (I've seen the movie so many times I can't even count since it's my > wife's favorite movie of all times. :) Sean pointed out the same thing. Let me reiterate: "I feel like like Andre the Giant...". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 09:02:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23441 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:02:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23435 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:02:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26926; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:02:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd026876; Wed Nov 4 10:02:15 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA23492; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:02:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811041702.KAA23492@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Inconceivable... (was Re: scanf in the kernel?) To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:02:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, tlambert@primenet.com, mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811041657.JAA23259@usr05.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 4, 98 04:57:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Let me reiterate: "I feel like like Andre the Giant...". I reiterated like when I reiterated. I guess I rereiterated. Is +=2 technically a unary operator? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 10:36:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08038 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08022 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:36:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4004.ime.net [209.90.195.14]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA15791; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:36:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981104133242.00b3a770@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 13:34:31 -0500 To: Lanny Baron From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19981104015045.00a8e540@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:50 AM 11/4/98 -0500, Lanny Baron wrote: > >> Except for your creative use of profanity, I must say, I'm inspired. >> >> We use our FreeBSD machine here for a ton of stuff, including my web >> servers and my DNS servers. >> >> People that have asked me to do work for them hold FreeBSD boxes that are >> running as PPP-Ethernet routers and Quake servers for BBSes. I must say, >> that's pretty damn good. >> >> Most of the perl scripts and other things like that are all built around >> the tools inside FreeBSD as well. I don't plan to change that, and if >> suddenly FreeBSD falls off the earth for some reason, I'm probably just >> going to say 'the hell with it' and find my dream career as a prostitute.. >> >> >> --- >> Drew "Droobie" Baxter >> Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) >> OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 >> http://www.droo.orland.me.us >> My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT >1998 > > > Finally, some really good things to hear for FreeBSD. The use of >profanity was just a release of total frustration to the garbage of linux >and micro$oft. We (FreeBSD users) are the people that can turn the hard >work and aspirations of the inventors/owners of the great platform they >have made for us, to a rocketing success. In my opinion FreeBSD is going >more towards the business community. A total welcome. > > I have just set a channel on the efnet (irc) for people who wish >to share idea's for commercial use of FreeBSD and its great possibilities. > >Thanks for your comments, >Lanny > Sounds good, definitely. If I had more of a commercial user base, I'd steer them a different direction, but most of the user base I have is in Education. Unfortunately the theory goes "If you want it, you've got to maintain it". Maybe sometime things will change where an interface could be installed to control the more important things via the web. People are paranoid of anything they can't point and click to. I guess I don't blame them, however point and click can format a drive just as bad a newfs or format C:.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 10:48:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09810 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:48:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atl.bellsouth.net (mail.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09801 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:48:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-76-51.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.76.51]) by mail.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26244; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:34:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36409EA5.1A96F7C7@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 13:36:21 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dan O'Brien" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Interesting diversion - M$ vs OSS References: <364062AD.7FCE8291@lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [diverted to -chat] Dan O'Brien wrote: > > http://tuxedo.org/~esr/halloween.html Yep, we've seen it. I think its release is a legal ploy, but that's just opinion. > > plus some harsh criticism of *BSD development model... Whattya expect ;-) This is from Eric Raymond, the author of 'The Cathedral and the Bazaar'. His primary justification for the "success" of the Bazaar rests with ego gratification. I don't buy it. Ever met Eric? I have. When the hosts of the Atlanta Linux Exposition we gracious (and open minded) enough to let us participate with FreeBSD, he shows up screaming that we're heretics. Definitely a fanatic, but kinda humorous. I'd sure like to know just how he received that paper. Sounds like M$ might have infiltrated his associations around the top of the food chain for Linux. Believe me, this is a good time to be out of the spotlight. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 11:23:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16707 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:23:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Relay.Romania.EU.net (main.RO.EU.net [193.226.128.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16677 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:23:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Liviu.Ionescu@Romania.EU.net) Received: from ilg-mobile (ilg-pc.RO.EU.net [193.226.128.201]) by Relay.Romania.EU.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/EUI_RO-AntiSpam) with SMTP id VAA24841; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:22:13 +0200 (EET) Reply-To: From: "Liviu Ionescu" To: , Subject: RE: enough about linux and microshit Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:22:14 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01be0828$6f027a60$c980e2c1@ilg-mobile.eunet.ro> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <199811040647.BAA22068@freedom.cybertouch.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > [...] If > you all really cared for and appreciated what golden opportunity we > have here, there would be more discussion on how to help the > owners of FreeBSD grow. Stop comparing. right. I remember a comment I read in a magazine regarding the permanent effort from Sun to blame Microsoft. It was said that if Sun would have saved at least part of this effort and invested the same amount of time into developing it's own products, Java and Solaris would have been in a much better position now. the same can be said about these endless discussions regarding Microsoft, Linux, etc. instead of spending a lot of time blaming them in a (relatively closed) group like this, it would be much useful for the FreeBSD project that we spend this time improving the system and promoting it. regards, Liviu Ionescu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 13:32:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10125 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:32:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cs.uoregon.edu (vitalstatistix.cs.uoregon.edu [128.223.4.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10117 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:32:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wcarey@cs.uoregon.edu) Received: from ix.cs.uoregon.edu (wcarey@ix.cs.uoregon.edu [128.223.6.41]) by cs.uoregon.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA13203 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:32:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov (beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.38.90]) by cs.uoregon.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA22522 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:10:38 -0800 (PST) X-Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA29514 for beowulf-list; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:47:12 -0500 X-Received: from cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.38.12]) by beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29511 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:47:11 -0500 X-Received: from einstein.phy.duke.edu (root@einstein.phy.duke.edu [152.3.182.4]) by cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28959 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:47:43 -0500 X-Received: from ganesh.phy.duke.edu (rgb@ganesh.phy.duke.edu [152.3.183.52]) by einstein.phy.duke.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13982; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:47:04 -0500 (EST) X-Received: from localhost (rgb@localhost) by ganesh.phy.duke.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA09177; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:47:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ganesh.phy.duke.edu: rgb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:47:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert G. Brown" To: Alan Cox cc: Greg Herlein , eotoole@newgrange.net, mdw@cs.berkeley.edu, extreme-linux@acl.lanl.gov, beowulf@cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: Microsoft Open Source document In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Alan Cox wrote: > > Perhaps we should set up an organization like the FSF - but one > > aimed at preserving Open Standards? Heck, for all I know this > > organization already exists. Comments anyone? > > Contributing to the IETF and W3 consortium is probably the productive > approach. And making sure IETF and W3 people know about the memo Although actually the memo is kind of humorous. If you read it just right, it has the ring of: o All large, cumbersome reptiles with immense calory requirements and primitive or nonexistent homeothermic mechanisms take note: small mammals seem to be successfully competing with us in certain ecological niches. This could be serious. o It is reasonable that these mammals are successful. They have fur and regulate their body temperature and hence can move around when it is dark and cold. They bear their young live and hence are not as vulnerable during the gestation stage. They reproduce relatively rapidly, and as they care for their young a larger fraction survive to adulthood. Their calorie requirements are relatively modest, at least on an individual basis. They are a real threat. o Since the large, bright flash occurred last month somewhere over the horizon (followed by the earthquake), it seems to be snowing and the plants we rely on for food are dying. Very soon we could be cold and hungry. o We need to adopt a strategy of growing fur and homeothermic regulation, but in order to compete we mush grow >>better<< fur. Our fur will be so good we can patent the very idea of fur and force the little rats to wear the scales instead! Also, we'll be so temperature regulated that we will fairly glow with heat whereever we go, even in the subzero artic. Wooly snakes, hairy tyrannosaurs -- we can do it. While we're at it, developing the ability to catch, kill, and eat small furry mammals is definitely called for, at least until the plants come back. o While we work to evolve these improvements, we need to start a public relations campaign promoting the idea that scales are beautiful, that cold blood masks a warm heart, and that you can't be a really >>great<< lover unless you weigh at least a ton. Overcome by our message, the rodents will languish and fail to reproduce while we exterminate them. Right. The IETF might be amused by the MS memo, but shouldn't worry as it represents no threat. Recent history teaches us several things. For one, the IETF/RFC process works amazingly well, and has proven quite resistant to the manifold attempts of companies to dominate the standards process or finagle proprietary advantage. Very few originally proprietary concepts have withstood the intense efforts of the OS/OSS computing community to either reverse engineer (e.g. postscript -> ghostscript) or simply ignore in favor of open/common standards. Even when a company DOES offer up an open standard, acceptance is far from automatic (anybody remember NeXT's netinfo?). Microsoft is WAY late to this particular game -- companies like Sun, DEC, IBM, HP, SGI have all tried, and all, for the most part, failed. Second, Microsoft has become almost completely moribund. Although they do indeed hire some decent brain power and have a few areas where they are innovative, the memo itself clearly states that they are outmanned and outgunned a hundred to one by the collective resources of the Internet. They cannot win. Microsoft hasn't contributed a really significant original idea to computing for a long, long time. Their modus operandi is to wait for entrepreneurs to develop a product and create a market. Then they buy it or clone it and use the, um, "interesting" market tactics under current examination in court to grab significant market share, where "all" is the significant market share they are most interested in. Go down the list. PC DOS? Apple, CPM were first for PC's. Windows? Apple, Xerox/PARC, Unix/X. NT? Unix (first by far and still the overwhelming technical superior) and even OS2. Excel? Lotus 123. Microsoft's integrated compilers? Borland's Turbo Pascal is godfather of them all. Explorer? Mosaic, then Netscape. Where is a product MS "invented? Power Point? The Microsoft Network? Don't make me laugh. So where is any evidence of a Microsoft threat to GNU/linux or freebsd or OSS in general? They can't steal it -- its free. They can't improve on it (as the memo suggests) -- there are ten programmers or more already working on anything they might focus on for free for every one they can afford to pay, and a lot of them are better coders with the advantage of a free exchange of ideas to fuel their designs. The GPL hasn't been fully tested yet, but it does exist to block anything like real theft on their part. They cannot undersell it -- it's free. They cannot "split up the market" -- there is no market to split up, they already own the entire "market" and have no idea how to go about competing with a company like Red Hat that's nibbling away it its edges without "owning" a single product that they can buy out or clone. The Internet was designed to survive a nuclear war, and both the open standards and OSS effort it has spawned are now fully integrated parts of its self-modifying design. It interprets non-consensual control as damage and routes around it, and does the same thing whether the control is of the the underlying software base that makes it work or the hardware and wires that route the actual packets. As a virtual space, it is (in my romanticized view, at least:-) populated by rugged individualists, geniuses, and idealists -- folks who would rather build a house themselves than buy a pre-built home even if the pre-built home was actually rather solid. The Microsoft memo was insanely optimistic when it suggested that there was some strategy available to it that would allow it to survive with its current corporate culture intact. Microsoft has absolutely no chance of winning this particular battle -- they will only survive by changing. Time to evolve hair, it's snowing outside... I recently encountered and purchased in a junk shop a coffee mug with lots of cute little animals on it engaged in procreative activity in a variety of unlikely positions. The animals in this particular case were -- penguins. I'd like to give it to Linus if I ever meet him as a symbolic representative of Bill Gates' worst nightmare: imagine Bill, one day, drinking coffee from a mug just like this one in his office and suddenly grimacing as he notices and says... "F***ing penguins..." :-) rgb Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/ Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305 Durham, N.C. 27708-0305 Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:rgb@phy.duke.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 15:14:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28042 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:14:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from exchangeserver.mpainc.com ([198.246.145.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28035 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:14:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from RickSiple@mpainc.com) Received: by EXCHANGESERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:27:07 -0500 Message-ID: <50D018439050D211AFB1006008CEB82D0615EA@EXCHANGESERVER> From: Rick Siple To: "Chat Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: Reverse IP lookups for cdrom.com? Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:26:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dumb question from an internet novice. When my company changed internet service providers, somebody fumbled the ball and forgot to tell out new provider to that they should be maintaining out inverse lookup DNS zone (the .in-addr.arpa zone, in case I have the terminology wrong) as well as our normal zone (mpainc.com). (This seemed very odd to me, why would they maintain our primary DNS for mpainc.com but not for the inverse zone?) So for four days we were functioning without our inverse lookup zone. During this period of time some mail was, understandably, undeliverable. (Spam blockage I am assuming.) There were also, though, several web sites that did not respond. cdrom.com was one of them. After ARIN fixed our registration cdrom.com started working. Just wondered if and why cdrom.com was attempting a reverse lookup for web browsing. __________ Rick Siple ricksiple@mpainc.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 15:47:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03322 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:47:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03315 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:47:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-102.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.102]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA04598; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:47:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18862; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:47:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199811042347.RAA18862@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: beef@cybertouch.org cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit In-reply-to: Message from beef@cybertouch.org of "Wed, 04 Nov 1998 01:46:00 EST." <199811040647.BAA22068@freedom.cybertouch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 17:47:37 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org beef@cybertouch.org writes: > And while I am bitching about the bs in the mail these days. > Tell me, you must agree there are a lot of books on winshit and > luunix. But very few on FreeBSD. Ever wonder why? One day a number of years ago I spent about an hour in the only local bookstore who would bother to stock a reasonable assortment of ORA books. Noticed the flood of "Linux" books. I was trying to do useful work with Linux back then. So I browsed. Didn't buy a thing. Didn't find a single book that could stand on its own had it not "Linux" in the title. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 16:45:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13919 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13896 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:45:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4010.ime.net [209.90.195.20]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA16126; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:34:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981104192449.00a89cf0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:32:42 -0500 To: David Kelly , beef@cybertouch.org From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811042347.RAA18862@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:47 PM 11/4/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: >beef@cybertouch.org writes: >> And while I am bitching about the bs in the mail these days. >> Tell me, you must agree there are a lot of books on winshit and >> luunix. But very few on FreeBSD. Ever wonder why? > >One day a number of years ago I spent about an hour in the only local >bookstore who would bother to stock a reasonable assortment of ORA >books. Noticed the flood of "Linux" books. I was trying to do useful >work with Linux back then. So I browsed. Didn't buy a thing. Didn't >find a single book that could stand on its own had it not "Linux" in >the title. > >-- >David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net >===================================================================== >The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its >capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. > --- I'm just blabbering here.. I apologize in advance. I'm a victim of being half asleep and the stupid Eudora beeper going off. This probably has more to do with the quoted string rather than your remarks, David :-) --- Well people sometimes don't go for the obscure either. Sometimes we don't see books on something because it's well written on its own. As it goes, my only piece of UNIX-Related book is my BSD 4.4 Systems Managers Manual, and that was given to me.. Most of it is just a paper version of generic'd man pages, where the commands first showed up, the syntax, etc. However it does contain material on UUCP (a big deal at the time when I was given it), and things like that. As it goes I have domain names and SMTP servers, so don't need to use UUCP. I just didn't like Linux because of FreeBSD being my first (besides AIX and Tenon's MachTen) plunge into Unix. I spent most of my time just browsing /usr/bin and things like that, doing a man and finding out about commands. Most of my first year was dedicated to finding stuff out. As it went, many of the people on MUD's I was on at the time were very helpful in the things like untarring a file, and things like that. That combined with some common sense, got me to where I am now. Reading material isn't everything. Some people rely too much on books, others would refuse to use one at all.. I find books are good reference, but not when I'm doing a cvsup once a week, and chasing the latest version. For the longest time I had an ls.bat in my C:\ on my windows machine as well, because I got screwed up crossing the platforms. Yes there should be more FreeBSD books, or BSD-related materials on the shelves. But at the moment (and it's been that way for a little while), people are talking about Linux. Amongst things like this certification idea they've been talking about in -advocacy the last few weeks, hopefully we can see some curbing of that. Personally if I saw "Works with FreeBSD" on my 3com card box, I'd be kinda curious what the heck it is :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 17:39:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20720 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:39:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20710 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA06074; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:09:34 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA06829; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:09:34 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981105120934.X784@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:09:34 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrzej Bialecki , Peter Jeremy Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: lisp vs. Forth References: <98Nov4.211907est.40336@border.alcanet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 12:20:31PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [respecting jkh's implicit wishes and following up to -chat] On Wednesday, 4 November 1998 at 12:20:31 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Peter Jeremy wrote: > >> I prefer lisp for non-trivial work, but can get by in forth. You >> can write illegible code in any language, so I don't think that >> argument holds much weight. A forth kernel is much smaller than >> lisp because there's no need for garbage collection or tagged pointers. >> (The downside is that forth doesn't have garbage collection or >> runtime typing :-). > > ...and some people consider it an advantage of Forth :-). You simply > fetch/put an N-bit value, and _you_ should know what it means. This somewhat limits what it's *allowed* to mean, unfortunately. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 17:58:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23741 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:58:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23726 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:58:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA23535; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:57:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981104184626.0426cd10@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:49:37 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , Andrzej Bialecki , Peter Jeremy From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: lisp vs. Forth Cc: FreeBSD Chat In-Reply-To: <19981105120934.X784@freebie.lemis.com> References: <98Nov4.211907est.40336@border.alcanet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The troublesome thing about Forth, though, is that of all languages it involves the largest number of entities that are not named. You just have "the thing on the top of the stack," And "the thing that's below it on the stack," etc. This leads to code that's incredibly hard to figure out. Even for the author. --Brett At 12:09 PM 11/5/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >[respecting jkh's implicit wishes and following up to -chat] > >On Wednesday, 4 November 1998 at 12:20:31 +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: >> On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Peter Jeremy wrote: >> >>> I prefer lisp for non-trivial work, but can get by in forth. You >>> can write illegible code in any language, so I don't think that >>> argument holds much weight. A forth kernel is much smaller than >>> lisp because there's no need for garbage collection or tagged pointers. >>> (The downside is that forth doesn't have garbage collection or >>> runtime typing :-). >> >> ...and some people consider it an advantage of Forth :-). You simply >> fetch/put an N-bit value, and _you_ should know what it means. > >This somewhat limits what it's *allowed* to mean, unfortunately. > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 21:40:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18562 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:40:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (hsv1-36.airnet.net [207.242.81.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18557 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:40:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20704; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:38:39 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <364139DC.5C04275D@airnet.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 23:38:36 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit References: <4.1.19981104192449.00a89cf0@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter wrote: > For the longest time I had an ls.bat in my C:\ on my windows machine as > well, because I got screwed up crossing the platforms. % ls /msdos/*bat /msdos/pwd.bat /msdos/ls.bat /msdos/rm.bat /msdos/mdir.bat /msdos/cp.bat /msdos/mv.bat It's edited a bit , but it's there :-) Most DOS machines I now inhabit have at least "ls.bat". % ruptime host1 up 2+22:25, 1 user, load 0.34, 0.64, 0.49 host2 up 30+03:27, 2 users, load 0.00, 0.27, 0.40 This is interesting because a) I'm on utility power [no UPS] and b) host1 is my "play" machine with all the games on it. host2 is the 386DX-40 firewall/router. It's been doing that job better than a year. Something is to be said about the stabilty of FreeBSD... The 386 was rebooted last month, after the addition of another hard drive. Maybe I should rename the machine to "Energizer" :-). -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 21:47:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19065 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:47:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19060 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:47:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4028.ime.net [209.90.195.38]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id AAA16515; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:47:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981105004234.00a89e00@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:45:26 -0500 To: Kris Kirby From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <364139DC.5C04275D@airnet.net> References: <4.1.19981104192449.00a89cf0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:38 PM 11/4/98 -0600, Kris Kirby wrote: >Drew Baxter wrote: >> For the longest time I had an ls.bat in my C:\ on my windows machine as >> well, because I got screwed up crossing the platforms. > >% ls /msdos/*bat >/msdos/pwd.bat >/msdos/ls.bat >/msdos/rm.bat >/msdos/mdir.bat >/msdos/cp.bat >/msdos/mv.bat > >It's edited a bit , but it's there :-) Most DOS machines I now inhabit >have at least "ls.bat". > >% ruptime >host1 up 2+22:25, 1 user, load 0.34, 0.64, 0.49 >host2 up 30+03:27, 2 users, load 0.00, 0.27, 0.40 > >This is interesting because a) I'm on utility power [no UPS] and b) >host1 is my "play" machine with all the games on it. host2 is the >386DX-40 firewall/router. It's been doing that job better than a year. >Something is to be said about the stabilty of FreeBSD... The 386 was >rebooted last month, after the addition of another hard drive. Maybe I >should rename the machine to "Energizer" :-). >-- >Kris Kirby >UAH Mail UAH CS >Home WWW >------------------------------------------- >TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > Phew good to know I'm not the only one that does that :-) Loki is: 12:45AM up 9 days, 9:03, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Odin is (My Solaris X86 POS): 12:44am up 12 day(s), 8:45, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.01 As it goes, my NT box has a high uptime, but freakishly crashed the other day. It's because it doesn't do anything.. I do make world once every week or two, so the FreeBSD box doesn't last long. The Solaris box.. oh we won't even go there.. Pretty sad when I have to go download a compiler.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 22:46:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23082 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:46:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23077 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:46:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul10.u.washington.edu (root@saul10.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.73]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id WAA38726 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:46:01 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul10.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id WAA18195 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:46:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:45:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Why SGML for docs? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have seen that FreeBSD makes calls for SGML documentation. I know HTML and it is easy and pretty powerful with HTML 4.0 and CSS. I took a peek and SGML and my hair turned white. My brief look at SGML led me to think HTML is pretty good. I don't need to look at SGML. I am happy with this small subset. What makes SGML useful for docs? Is it conversion tools for different formats? Is it the power? I guess the short question would be, "Why should I learn SGML?" Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 22:58:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23831 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23826 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:58:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17838; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:45:45 PST." Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:59:10 -0800 Message-ID: <17835.910249150@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What makes SGML useful for docs? Is it conversion tools for different > formats? Is it the power? Yes. > I guess the short question would be, "Why should I learn SGML?" If you want to contribute to the FreeBSD doc project, that is its official language. If not then there may indeed be no reason for you to learn SGML! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 23:10:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25128 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:10:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25123 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul5.u.washington.edu (root@saul5.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.3]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA35684 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:10:39 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA12927 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:10:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:10:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? In-Reply-To: <17835.910249150@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >If you want to contribute to the FreeBSD doc project, that is its >official language. If not then there may indeed be no reason for you >to learn SGML! :-) That is what I was driving at. Exponential learning curve my derriere! This curve just goes right out! :) I am in a "nth complexity infinite loop" that is burning up my "machine cycles". It hasn't stopped in two years. It all started when I wanted a "free webserver" and found Apache. Things have never been the same. I am beginning to think that FreeBSD is a front for ORA sales. I just loaned about $300 worth of books to my converted friend. I kept my bash book though. I will tell you this from Adam. Don't mess with anyones bash book. My buddies boss just sat on his. Bad move, bad bad move. :) Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason "This is chat, right" Wells To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 23:25:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27184 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:25:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles186.castles.com [208.214.165.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27173 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:25:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00456; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:24:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811050724.XAA00456@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:45:45 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 23:24:58 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I have seen that FreeBSD makes calls for SGML documentation. I know HTML > and it is easy and pretty powerful with HTML 4.0 and CSS. > > I took a peek and SGML and my hair turned white. My brief look at SGML led > me to think HTML is pretty good. I don't need to look at SGML. I am happy > with this small subset. > > What makes SGML useful for docs? Is it conversion tools for different > formats? Is it the power? It's the fact that no other toolset exists that's up to the job. > I guess the short question would be, "Why should I learn SGML?" You don't want to learn SGML unless you want to hack the doc tools. You want to learn the DTD that we're using (DocBook, the same one that ORA use for many of their books). Consider the relative merits of learning how to drive a car vs. how to make one from scratch from a pile of rusting sardine tins. The latter may make a driver out of you, and it'll teach you a lot about how the car goes together, but if all you want to do is go from A to B ... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 23:32:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28104 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:32:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28099 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:32:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul10.u.washington.edu (root@saul10.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.73]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA39484; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:32:03 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul10.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA26996; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:32:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:31:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Mike Smith cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? In-Reply-To: <199811050724.XAA00456@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Mike Smith wrote: >Consider the relative merits of learning how to drive a car vs. how to >make one from scratch from a pile of rusting sardine tins. The latter >may make a driver out of you, and it'll teach you a lot about how the >car goes together, but if all you want to do is go from A to B ... This is encouraging. blech... :) I happen to building a race car from the ground up as a U project. It is the funnest class I have had but is HUGELY time consuming. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 4 23:42:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29137 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:42:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29128 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au) Received: (from ncb05@localhost) by banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA04291; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:42:42 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:42:41 +1100 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: gpl'd diff files Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm considering porting something over from linux which is primarily a large diff file against kernel sources. The diff file licence is under the gpl. I'm wondering whether the gpl still applies after I've ported the diff file over to bsd. I'm not sure whether this would be directly covered under the gpl, and i'm keen to avoid the virus-like effects of the gpl covering further modifications to all source involved. Any assistance in this would be great. Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 00:29:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04292 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:29:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles186.castles.com [208.214.165.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04282 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:29:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00949; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:28:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811050828.AAA00949@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nicholas Charles Brawn cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gpl'd diff files In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Nov 1998 18:42:41 +1100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:28:39 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I'm considering porting something over from linux which is primarily a > large diff file against kernel sources. The diff file licence is under > the gpl. I'm wondering whether the gpl still applies after I've ported the > diff file over to bsd. I'm not sure whether this would be directly > covered under the gpl, and i'm keen to avoid the virus-like effects of > the gpl covering further modifications to all source involved. > > Any assistance in this would be great. If you use code substantially from the patch, then you will be required to GPL-infest everything you use the code in. The definition of "derivative work" is pretty broad - you can probably get away with using information (eg. register maps, hardware interface procedures) obtained by reading the code, but if you copy code from the patch, you lose. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 04:02:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA28872 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:02:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (hsv1-55.airnet.net [207.242.81.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA28856 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA01657; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:59:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3641930C.21A69E98@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 05:59:09 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit References: <4.1.19981104192449.00a89cf0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981105004234.00a89e00@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter wrote: > Loki is: > 12:45AM up 9 days, 9:03, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > Odin is (My Solaris X86 POS): > 12:44am up 12 day(s), 8:45, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.01 > > As it goes, my NT box has a high uptime, but freakishly crashed the other > day. It's because it doesn't do anything.. I do make world once every week > or two, so the FreeBSD box doesn't last long. I feel so cheated. After I sent out that message and was composing another, my machine Page Fault'd and rebooted. Beware of overclocking, processor fans, and especially flaky hardware. Thos will kill a decent FBSD system any day. They can make a great UN*X, but the machine is only as good as the hardware. :-/ My next machine *won't* be cheap parts. -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 04:13:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02094 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (hsv1-55.airnet.net [207.242.81.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02089 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:13:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA01695; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:10:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3641959C.4E755EF1@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 06:10:04 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason C. Wells wrote: > I happen to building a race car from the ground up as a U project. It is > the funnest class I have had but is HUGELY time consuming. University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH) is appearently known for a concrete and composite carbon fiber watercraft of some type. The entire idea of a boat out of concrete... -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 05:34:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12077 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:34:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from k6n1.znh.org (dialup2.gaffaneys.com [208.155.161.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12072 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:34:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zach@gaffaneys.com) Received: (from zach@localhost) by k6n1.znh.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA23945; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:35:37 GMT (envelope-from zach) Message-ID: <19981105073537.A23883@znh.org> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:35:37 -0600 From: Zach Heilig To: Kris Kirby , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: <3641959C.4E755EF1@airnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3641959C.4E755EF1@airnet.net>; from Kris Kirby on Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 06:10:04AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 06:10:04AM -0600, Kris Kirby wrote: > University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH) is appearently known for a > concrete and composite carbon fiber watercraft of some type. The entire > idea of a boat out of concrete... Speaking of concrete watercraft... The civil engineering class at UND (university of north dakota) made a canoe out of concrete and chicken wire. The final requirement was that it be tested successfully in the nearby river. I talked to the group working on it while they were trawling the bottom, pondering how much it would weigh. Their estimate was ~120-130 lbs. (I think they used styrofoam beads instead of sand and gravel). ~120 lbs is really not that far out of line for a canoe... (yes, I've been to the boundary waters multiple times -- Given the choice of lugging my ~65lbs. canoe or renting one of those nice ~45 lb. canoes, I always choose the later) -- Zach Heilig If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have to at least consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidæ on our hands (Douglas Adams -- Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 06:15:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16685 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:15:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA16663 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:15:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11103; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:14:49 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19981105161449.A303@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:14:49 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: Kris Kirby , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: <3641959C.4E755EF1@airnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3641959C.4E755EF1@airnet.net>; from Kris Kirby on Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 06:10:04AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 06:10:04AM -0600, Kris Kirby wrote: > University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH) is appearently known for a > concrete and composite carbon fiber watercraft of some type. The entire > idea of a boat out of concrete... Do a search for "concrete canoe competition" on your favourite engine one day. It's one of the main events on the ASCE national calendar, although there are other similar competitions around the world. They're actually extremely difficult to build well, but an excellent lesson in concrete mix design. The concrete is normally fibre reinforced, which lowers the workability, along with the low water:cement ratio to get high strength, so you have to add superpasticisers to get the mix in between the reinforcing. Plus you need to have the concrete cure quickly but have a low shrinkage else the hull will crack, and if the curing is not uniform then it will warp. Choice of aggregate is also important. You new something which floats, but which binds well to the cement paste, because you need a high tensile strength. Plus you have to design, build and paddle the boat... -Jeremy -- | "In this world of temptation, I will stand for what is right. --+-- With a heart of salvation, I will hold up the light. | If I live or if I die, if I laugh or if I cry, | in this world of temptation, I will stand." -Pam Thum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 08:56:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02723 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:56:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02718 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:56:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from orthoefe@gte.net) Received: from localhost (cracktown.com [208.226.218.140]) by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net with SMTP id KAA01139 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:55:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:00:15 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Orthoefer X-Sender: orthoefe@localhost To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Id looking for publisher for linux versions of quake Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Not quite freebsd related, but over on slashdot (http://www.slashdot.org/) there's been some reprints of Carmack letters where he was looking to RedHat to publish the linux versions of the Quake series. Maybe Walnut Creek should get in touch with Id, with the aim here being to eventually warm Id up to allowing someone to port the linux sources for the aforementioned games to the other unix and unixlike platforms... Joe Orthoefer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 10:34:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11247 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11226 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:31:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4005.ime.net [209.90.195.15]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA17257; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:31:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981105132823.00b3a4e0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:29:24 -0500 To: Kris Kirby From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: enough about linux and microshit Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3641930C.21A69E98@airnet.net> References: <4.1.19981104192449.00a89cf0@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981105004234.00a89e00@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:59 AM 11/5/98 -0600, Kris Kirby wrote: >Drew Baxter wrote: >> Loki is: >> 12:45AM up 9 days, 9:03, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 >> >> Odin is (My Solaris X86 POS): >> 12:44am up 12 day(s), 8:45, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.01 >> >> As it goes, my NT box has a high uptime, but freakishly crashed the other >> day. It's because it doesn't do anything.. I do make world once every week >> or two, so the FreeBSD box doesn't last long. > >I feel so cheated. After I sent out that message and was composing >another, my machine Page Fault'd and rebooted. Beware of overclocking, >processor fans, and especially flaky hardware. Thos will kill a decent >FBSD system any day. They can make a great UN*X, but the machine is only >as good as the hardware. :-/ My next machine *won't* be cheap parts. >-- >Kris Kirby >UAH Mail UAH CS >Home WWW >------------------------------------------- >TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. My Solaris box is a converted CTX from Damark.. We won't get into that. The FreeBSD box is a PII-333 (boxed) on a Supermicro P6SBA in a SC701A case, running at regular clock.. It can do a kernel in a little under 2 minutes, really nice machine. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 11:11:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15778 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:11:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA15769 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:11:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za) Received: (qmail 8937 invoked by uid 1003); 5 Nov 1998 19:11:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19981105211124.A7801@rucus.ru.ac.za> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:11:24 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Halloween II Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Just heard of another (supposedly?) leaked document from Microsoft, which has been called "Halloween II" by ESR. http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 11:56:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22343 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:56:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22312 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:56:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13030 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:56:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19981105115637.A12896@wopr.caltech.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:56:37 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Discover Online accidentally plugs FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I noticed today that one of my web pages is getting a lot of referrals from: http://www.discovery.com/area/technology/hackers/inductees.html It's a Discovery Online story honoring Linus Torvalds and other folks. It contains: You say "LIE-nucks," I say "LEE-nukes" ... To learn how Linus says "Linux," check out: http://wopr.ml.org/~hunt/linus.html That link is to a web page I made back when I ran Linux. When I switched to FreeBSD, I made some subtle changes to that web page. I wonder if anyone at Discovery noticed that... Make sure you view the source to my Linus page when you visit. -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 12:02:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23127 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23110 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:02:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id VAA21368; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:01:52 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:01:50 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Neil Blakey-Milner Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Halloween II References: <19981105211124.A7801@rucus.ru.ac.za> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 05 Nov 1998 21:01:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: Neil Blakey-Milner's message of "Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:11:24 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA23122 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Neil Blakey-Milner writes: > Just heard of another (supposedly?) leaked document from Microsoft, which has > been called "Halloween II" by ESR. > > http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html This is getting rather tiresome... Since everybody else is apparently too busy fussing over Halloween I and II to actually do anything productive, perhaps we should take advantage of the situation to widen our technological lead. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 12:06:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23823 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:06:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23718; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id VAA21914; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:05:44 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:05:42 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Hunt Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discover Online accidentally plugs FreeBSD References: <19981105115637.A12896@wopr.caltech.edu> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 05 Nov 1998 21:05:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: Matthew Hunt's message of "Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:56:37 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA23786 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt writes: > That link is to a web page I made back when I ran Linux. When I > switched to FreeBSD, I made some subtle changes to that web page. I > wonder if anyone at Discovery noticed that... Excellent! lol :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 12:07:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23991 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23966 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:07:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24026; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:06:28 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981105200628.55923@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:06:28 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 10:45:45PM -0800 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 10:45:45PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I have seen that FreeBSD makes calls for SGML documentation. I know HTML > and it is easy and pretty powerful with HTML 4.0 and CSS. > > I took a peek and SGML and my hair turned white. My brief look at SGML led > me to think HTML is pretty good. I don't need to look at SGML. I am happy > with this small subset. > > What makes SGML useful for docs? Is it conversion tools for different > formats? Is it the power? You didn't look at SGML, you looked at DocBook. DocBook and HTML are both languages that are defined using SGML. DocBook is much more expressive than HTML, allowing it to be more precise, more consistent, and, when I get the toolchain finished, much more useful (automatic links to man page CGI scripts, better searching, conversion to more formats). For a gentler introduction to DocBook, take a look at which is in the process of being massively expanded and revamped, and which is a little more comprehensive. Either way, please stick around. We need people to climb that learning curve and figure out how to document it so that the people that come after you find it easier. Critique the first one above, tell me what does and doesn't make sense. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 12:15:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25049 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24677 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:12:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24026; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:06:28 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981105200628.55923@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:06:28 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 10:45:45PM -0800 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 10:45:45PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I have seen that FreeBSD makes calls for SGML documentation. I know HTML > and it is easy and pretty powerful with HTML 4.0 and CSS. > > I took a peek and SGML and my hair turned white. My brief look at SGML led > me to think HTML is pretty good. I don't need to look at SGML. I am happy > with this small subset. > > What makes SGML useful for docs? Is it conversion tools for different > formats? Is it the power? You didn't look at SGML, you looked at DocBook. DocBook and HTML are both languages that are defined using SGML. DocBook is much more expressive than HTML, allowing it to be more precise, more consistent, and, when I get the toolchain finished, much more useful (automatic links to man page CGI scripts, better searching, conversion to more formats). For a gentler introduction to DocBook, take a look at which is in the process of being massively expanded and revamped, and which is a little more comprehensive. Either way, please stick around. We need people to climb that learning curve and figure out how to document it so that the people that come after you find it easier. Critique the first one above, tell me what does and doesn't make sense. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 12:23:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25689 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:23:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25625 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:22:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.21]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAF02; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:22:11 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:26:03 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Subject: Re: Halloween II Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Neil Blakey-Milner Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 05-Nov-98 Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav wrote: > Neil Blakey-Milner writes: > This is getting rather tiresome... > > Since everybody else is apparently too busy fussing over Halloween I > and II to actually do anything productive, perhaps we should take > advantage of the situation to widen our technological lead. Heh, take 'm by surprise ;) Lead the way mate *LOL* --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist FreeBSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 12:39:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27788 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:39:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27781 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:39:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) id MAA12936; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:39:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981105123912.A12134@best.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:39:12 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_C=2E_Sm=F8rgrav_?= , Neil Blakey-Milner Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Halloween II References: <19981105211124.A7801@rucus.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpogql52oi=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_C=2E_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Thu=2C_Nov_05=2C_1998_at_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?09:01:49PM_+0100?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 09:01:49PM +0100, "Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav " wrote: > Neil Blakey-Milner writes: > > Just heard of another (supposedly?) leaked document from Microsoft, which has > > been called "Halloween II" by ESR. > > > > http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html > > This is getting rather tiresome... > > Since everybody else is apparently too busy fussing over Halloween I > and II to actually do anything productive, perhaps we should take > advantage of the situation to widen our technological lead. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Exactly what I think too. BTW, did you know that the site which hosts www.vinod.com, the site of the Halloween author, runs FreeBSD? Yup... hosted by best.com :) -- Yan I don't have the password .... + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked .. | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time .... | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync ......... + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 12:53:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00255 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from exchangeserver.mpainc.com (proxy.mpainc.com [198.246.145.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00242 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:53:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from RickSiple@mpainc.com) Received: by EXCHANGESERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:04:56 -0500 Message-ID: <50D018439050D211AFB1006008CEB82D0615EB@EXCHANGESERVER> From: Rick Siple To: "'Chat Mailing List (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: Reverse IP lookups for cdrom.com? Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:04:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nevermind, our old ISP is still "advertising" that he can route to our network and is still accepting mail on our behalf. Cute. Sorry for the dumb question. __________ Rick Siple ricksiple@mpainc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Siple > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 12:27 PM > To: Chat Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: Reverse IP lookups for cdrom.com? > > Dumb question from an internet novice. When my company changed > internet service providers, somebody fumbled the ball and forgot to > tell out new provider to that they should be maintaining out inverse > lookup DNS zone (the .in-addr.arpa zone, in case I have the > terminology wrong) as well as our normal zone (mpainc.com). (This > seemed very odd to me, why would they maintain our primary DNS for > mpainc.com but not for the inverse zone?) So for four days we were > functioning without our inverse lookup zone. > During this period of time some mail was, understandably, > undeliverable. (Spam blockage I am assuming.) There were also, > though, several web sites that did not respond. cdrom.com was one of > them. After ARIN fixed our registration cdrom.com started working. > Just wondered if and why cdrom.com was attempting a reverse lookup for > web browsing. > > __________ > Rick Siple > ricksiple@mpainc.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 14:08:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09075 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:08:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atl.bellsouth.net (mail.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09066; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-72-160.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.72.160]) by mail.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09600; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:08:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3642221B.319BF6E7@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:09:31 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Hunt CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discover Online accidentally plugs FreeBSD References: <19981105115637.A12896@wopr.caltech.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Uh, That's Pat Volkerding. Common mistake tho... -- Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 19:29:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10021 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:29:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10011 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:29:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt4-190.HiWAAY.net [208.166.127.190]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA25096; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:29:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26031; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:59:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199811060259.UAA26031@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: FreeBSD-chat From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? In-reply-to: Message from "Jason C. Wells" of "Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:45:45 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:59:42 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jason C. Wells" writes: > > I guess the short question would be, "Why should I learn SGML?" What do you suggest? Microsoft Word? :-) I've put off documenting some stuff at work long enough that I'm begining to study troff/groff when I can grab a few moments. Fought battles copy/pasting between Word 7 and Eudora Lite under Win95 this afternoon for about 15 minutes and had enough of that. One nice thing about text based markup languages is its easy to diff one version against another and see where it changed. Anybody writing an "SGML For Dummies" book yet? Once Upon A Time I was given an SGML document and couldn't make anything of it. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 5 23:16:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27039 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:16:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27033 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:16:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16947; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:15:57 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981106071557.48097@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:15:57 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: David Kelly , "Jason C. Wells" Cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: <199811060259.UAA26031@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811060259.UAA26031@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 08:59:42PM -0600 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 08:59:42PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > Anybody writing an "SGML For Dummies" book yet? Once Upon A Time I was > given an SGML document and couldn't make anything of it. Yes. Quite literally. I don't know the ISBN, but that's what it's called. If you give me a few more days I'll have a "Primer for people who want to contribute to the Doc. Project" finished (or at least, ready for public comment). In the meantime, you might want to look at a very early draft, at N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 00:38:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04456 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:38:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-22.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04451 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:38:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.05demon1 #1) id 0zbhOZ-0002yV-00; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:37:28 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA01722; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:37:17 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02914; Fri, 6 Nov 98 08:37:15 GMT Message-Id: <3642B520.E047ADE6@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:36:48 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: <199811060259.UAA26031@nospam.hiwaay.net> <19981106071557.48097@nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 08:59:42PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > > Anybody writing an "SGML For Dummies" book yet? Once Upon A Time I was > > given an SGML document and couldn't make anything of it. > > Yes. Quite literally. I don't know the ISBN, but that's what it's called. ISBN 0764 501 755 Also SGML For Dummies Quick Reference ISBN 0764 502 972 > If you give me a few more days I'll have a "Primer for people who want > to contribute to the Doc. Project" finished (or at least, ready for > public comment). In the meantime, you might want to look at a very early > draft, at > > > > N > -- > C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- "Software is like sex, it's better when it's free" - Linus Torvalds. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 00:39:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04500 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04494 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:39:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zbhPe-0003Lx-00; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:38:34 +0200 Message-ID: <19981106103834.A12874@cityip.co.za> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:38:34 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: Neil Blakey-Milner , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Halloween II References: <19981105211124.A7801@rucus.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981105211124.A7801@rucus.ru.ac.za>; from Neil Blakey-Milner on Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 09:11:24PM +0200 X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 05 Nov 1998 at 21:11 SAST, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: > > Just heard of another (supposedly?) leaked document from Microsoft, which has > been called "Halloween II" by ESR. > > http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html Poor old ESR. What job is there left in this world for a Linux Evangelist when Microsoft is doing that job so much better...? -- V Johann Visagie | wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 | ICQ: 20645559 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 01:21:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA06925 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:21:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk ([194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA06903 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13632 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:20:15 GMT Message-ID: <3642BF86.C20452FF@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:21:10 +0000 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: http://ints.ml.org/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ms bought linkexchange Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Subject says it all... linkexchange wrote: > Today, we have some very exciting news to announce: LinkExchange has > joined Microsoft and we are now a part of the Microsoft Network of > Internet Services! I think I'll just sit back and hopefully watch the banners disappear, if not there's going to be an *awful* lot of Microsoft adverts around :-( But then, they'll probably try and switch it to NT, in which case half of them will probably be blank :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 07:13:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09463 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:13:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.tds.edu (zeus.tds.edu [38.149.131.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09458 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from willow@tds.edu) Received: from zeus.tds.edu (willow@zeus.tds.edu [38.149.131.15]) by zeus.tds.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14049 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:12:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:12:59 -0500 (EST) From: Willow To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Belated Halloween Prank Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please distribute this to everyone you know (on earth, that is.) When John Glenn returns from space, everybody dress in Ape Suits. We have only a few days to bury the Statue of Liberty up to her head. EVERYBODY HURRY ! ! ! P.S. I thought I would bring a little humor (If you can call it that) on this Friday morning! -- willow@tds.edu -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 10:51:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12028 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:51:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12011 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:51:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (bangor-1.ime.net [209.90.195.58]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA18548; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:49:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981106134715.00b717b0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:47:22 -0500 To: Stuart Henderson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: ms bought linkexchange In-Reply-To: <3642BF86.C20452FF@internationalschool.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:21 AM 11/6/98 +0000, Stuart Henderson wrote: >Subject says it all... > >linkexchange wrote: >> Today, we have some very exciting news to announce: LinkExchange has >> joined Microsoft and we are now a part of the Microsoft Network of >> Internet Services! > >I think I'll just sit back and hopefully watch the banners disappear, if not >there's going to be an *awful* lot of Microsoft adverts around :-( > >But then, they'll probably try and switch it to NT, in which case half of them >will probably be blank :-) > Goddamnit.. not again.. they already have hotmail.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 12:19:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25884 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:19:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25863; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:19:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (cam [10.0.0.50]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21270; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:18:22 +0200 Message-ID: <36435979.892DFA6D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 22:18:02 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" References: <3200.910382437@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > IMHO, Linux-ism > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA CORBA in Ukraine & ex-USSR: http://www.corbadev.kiev.ua To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 12:23:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26469 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:23:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26441 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23258; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:21:46 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981106202146.03010@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:21:46 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Nik Clayton , "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: <19981105200628.55923@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981105200628.55923@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 08:06:28PM +0000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 08:06:28PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > For a gentler introduction to DocBook, take a look at > > It's been expanded :-) Please see Also, could people please try and hold conversations about the documentation on the -doc mailing list, it makes it much easier keep track of things. Cheers, N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 12:35:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28000 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:35:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27989 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:35:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id VAA08819; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:34:58 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:34:57 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Why SGML for docs? References: <19981105200628.55923@nothing-going-on.org> <19981106202146.03010@nothing-going-on.org> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 06 Nov 1998 21:34:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: Nik Clayton's message of "Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:21:46 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA27995 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nik Clayton writes: > > For a gentler introduction to DocBook, take a look at > Are you going to import it into the tree? Might be useful to have along with the FAQ and the Handbook. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 12:53:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00593 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:53:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00580 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:53:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA05595 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:03:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199811062103.IAA05595@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: "Eek" In-Reply-To: <3200.910382437@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Nov 6, 98 12:00:37 pm" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:03:15 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > http://dd.sh/perlfs/ Oh sh*t. Next there will be perl-in-a-chip. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 13:00:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01886 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:00:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01877 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:00:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.164]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1766; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:00:27 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199811062103.IAA05595@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 22:04:29 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: John Birrell Subject: Re: "Eek" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 06-Nov-98 John Birrell wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > > Oh sh*t. Next there will be perl-in-a-chip. I wonder what Larry Wall is thinking right now. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist FreeBSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 13:24:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04740 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:24:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from geek.grf.ov.com (geek.grf.ov.com [192.251.86.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04734 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from pebbles (pebbles.cam.veritas.com [166.98.49.16]) by geek.grf.ov.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA25159 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:23:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811062123.QAA25159@geek.grf.ov.com> X-Sender: ksmm@mail.cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:22:39 -0500 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: "Eek" In-Reply-To: <3200.910382437@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I assume that the Core will be readjusting priorities in preparation to support this new development in the next RELEASE. :-) K.S. At 03:00 PM 11/6/98 , Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 13:43:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06903 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:43:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06891 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:42:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.164]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA204F; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:42:42 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199811062123.QAA25159@geek.grf.ov.com> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 22:46:45 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: "Eek" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 06-Nov-98 The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > I assume that the Core will be readjusting priorities in preparation to > support this new development in the next RELEASE. :-) Why else did ye think Jordan posted it? *G* --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist FreeBSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 14:15:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11165 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11146; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:15:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) From: mike@seidata.com Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22508; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:14:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:14:52 -0500 (EST) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" In-Reply-To: <3200.910382437@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > http://dd.sh/perlfs/ Great... when will FreeBSD implement this? ;-P Later, -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 14:21:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11745 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:21:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11722; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:21:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA11699; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:14:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199811062214.XAA11699@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: "Eek" In-Reply-To: <36435979.892DFA6D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> from Ruslan Shevchenko at "Nov 6, 98 10:18:02 pm" To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:14:57 +0100 (CET) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Ruslan Shevchenko: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > IMHO, Linux-ism IMO: "Maybe, but so what? That's WAY COOOOOL!" it's not a good idea to scrap all the filesystems and redo them in perl, or anything... but as an extension it can only bring good. It IS a rather neat idea... If we could make a similar thing that had the same API, we could share code with them too. And yes... it's less efficient, but then again... You don't always care, do you? I mean... if it gets to be a generic interface (version are written for all BSDs too, etc) then we might find a lot of obscure filesystems implmented like that... which might allow us to support reading/write such filsystems to people that need it, without having to do anything. And these people will be MUCH happier that they can read/write that file they needed to/from their obscure filesystem at half the speed then not at all. I wonder how much work it would be... How do they integrate perl with the kernel?? That could get ugly :) *starts diggint for details* /Mikael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 14:26:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12928 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:26:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12908; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:26:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id XAA20098; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:26:23 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:26:22 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: mike@seidata.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 06 Nov 1998 23:26:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: mike@seidata.com's message of "Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:14:52 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA12910 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org mike@seidata.com writes: > On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > Great... when will FreeBSD implement this? ;-P Never, I hope. There is a proverb about hammers and nails which has often been invoked for Perl; it is particularly pertinent to this situation. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 14:34:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13610 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:34:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.tds.edu (zeus.tds.edu [38.149.131.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13575 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:33:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from willow@tds.edu) Received: from zeus.tds.edu (willow@zeus.tds.edu [38.149.131.15]) by zeus.tds.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27334 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:33:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:49:38 -0500 (EST) From: Willow To: isp-tech@isp-tech.com Subject: telnet account Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone on the list willing to trade telnet accounts for testing and diagnostic purposes? If so email me off-list and I will set things up on this end. I would like accounts on as many backbones as possible for testing. I agree in advance and in writing if needed to abide by your AUP/TOS. -- willow@tds.edu -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 14:49:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15517 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:49:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15500; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:49:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4025.ime.net [209.90.195.35]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA18785; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:48:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981106174527.00b45a70@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:46:04 -0500 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ), mike@seidata.com From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: "Eek" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA15501 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:26 PM 11/6/98 +0100, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav wrote: >mike@seidata.com writes: >> On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> > http://dd.sh/perlfs/ >> Great... when will FreeBSD implement this? ;-P > >Never, I hope. There is a proverb about hammers and nails which has >often been invoked for Perl; it is particularly pertinent to this >situation. > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no > Yknow, this looks pretty flaky.. Maybe SUPPORT should be added, but I wouldn't rely on it for a damned thing myself. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 14:50:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15868 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15831; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:50:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA28014; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:49:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma028012; Fri, 6 Nov 98 16:49:33 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost.nectar.com [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11821; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:49:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199811062249.QAA11821@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <199811062214.XAA11699@ocean.campus.luth.se> References: <199811062214.XAA11699@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: "Eek" To: Mikael Karpberg cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:49:33 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I think everyone would be better served by shfs, a kernel interface for implementing filesystems using the Bourne shell. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org On 6 November 1998 at 23:14, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > According to Ruslan Shevchenko: > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > > IMHO, Linux-ism > > IMO: "Maybe, but so what? That's WAY COOOOOL!" > it's not a good idea to scrap all the filesystems and redo them in perl, > or anything... but as an extension it can only bring good. [snip] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNkN8/TeRhT8JRySpAQEAhwQAmpIcwdiae+HVXbEtI4Lifd+0ZV8Z1M4S Quivq56AUH+HWu2pUWCvq03jhYXg0uLUpo4kS8eBw4SS4HfXE8mbS8Xfafvfm63x 8hN6jBfUqzb9W/JmdgBN+VYHWHSbqyeb1Rqt61mrAGup2FDACjFMaK66U6onZtri 2IeJPUN/5EE= =5bVQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 15:13:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18987 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gjp.erols.com (alex-va-n008c079.moon.jic.com [206.156.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18979; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:13:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) Received: from gjp.erols.com (gjp@localhost.erols.com [127.0.0.1]) by gjp.erols.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21801; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:13:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:21:30 PST." <2083.910372890@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 18:13:04 -0500 Message-ID: <21797.910393984@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote in message ID <2083.910372890@time.cdrom.com>: > > "code slurpee" might be more accurate, seems that a lot > > of code gets sucked in (through the) cold. > > And it usually gives me a big headache. OK, I'll go with that. "Code > slurpee" it is. Now YOU get to explain this to all our > non-U.S. members who don't have 7-11 stores and probably don't know > what a ``slurpee'' even IS. :-) Perhaps, in that discussion, he could also explain the following curious facts: 1) Why a shop called `7-11' is open 24 hours a day 2) Why a shop that is open 24x7 has locks on the door. I'm curious :) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 15:26:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20621 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:26:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20610; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:26:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4025.ime.net [209.90.195.35]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id SAA18823; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:26:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981106182354.00a89600@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 18:24:24 -0500 To: "Gary Palmer" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp Cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <21797.910393984@gjp.erols.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:13 PM 11/6/98 -0500, Gary Palmer wrote: >"Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote in message ID ><2083.910372890@time.cdrom.com>: >> > "code slurpee" might be more accurate, seems that a lot >> > of code gets sucked in (through the) cold. >> >> And it usually gives me a big headache. OK, I'll go with that. "Code >> slurpee" it is. Now YOU get to explain this to all our >> non-U.S. members who don't have 7-11 stores and probably don't know >> what a ``slurpee'' even IS. :-) > >Perhaps, in that discussion, he could also explain the following curious facts: > >1) Why a shop called `7-11' is open 24 hours a day > >2) Why a shop that is open 24x7 has locks on the door. > >I'm curious :) > >Gary >-- >Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member >FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info > > > Yknow Gary, I think we're going to have to have a little talk about eating the 4 day old hot dogs in the steamer :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 15:33:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21587 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joshua.enteract.com (joshua.enteract.com [207.229.129.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA21582 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:33:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djhoward@joshua.enteract.com) Received: (qmail 24824 invoked by uid 1032); 6 Nov 1998 23:32:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19981106173251.B8631@enteract.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:32:51 -0600 From: dannyman To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , John Birrell Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" References: <199811062103.IAA05595@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai on Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 10:04:29PM +0100 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 10:04:29PM +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > On 06-Nov-98 John Birrell wrote: > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > > > > Oh sh*t. Next there will be perl-in-a-chip. > > I wonder what Larry Wall is thinking right now. Perl rings, only instead of making the coffee machine go, they tickle oysters. -danny -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 16:20:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28777 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:20:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28772 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:20:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) id QAA00791; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:18:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981106161808.B28582@best.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:18:08 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Drew Baxter , Stuart Henderson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ms bought linkexchange References: <3642BF86.C20452FF@internationalschool.co.uk> <4.1.19981106134715.00b717b0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981106134715.00b717b0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 01:47:22PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 01:47:22PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 09:21 AM 11/6/98 +0000, Stuart Henderson wrote: > >Subject says it all... > > > >linkexchange wrote: > >> Today, we have some very exciting news to announce: LinkExchange has > >> joined Microsoft and we are now a part of the Microsoft Network of > >> Internet Services! > > > >I think I'll just sit back and hopefully watch the banners disappear, if not > >there's going to be an *awful* lot of Microsoft adverts around :-( > > > >But then, they'll probably try and switch it to NT, in which case half of them > >will probably be blank :-) > > > > Goddamnit.. not again.. they already have hotmail.. > > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Conclusion: MS likes to buy companies which run FreeBSD. Ohh god no! Someone shoot me now!!! -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 16:23:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29163 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:23:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29132 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:23:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4025.ime.net [209.90.195.35]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA18874; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:21:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981106191900.00b47e60@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 19:19:49 -0500 To: "Jan B. Koum " , Stuart Henderson , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: ms bought linkexchange In-Reply-To: <19981106161808.B28582@best.com> References: <4.1.19981106134715.00b717b0@genesis.ispace.com> <3642BF86.C20452FF@internationalschool.co.uk> <4.1.19981106134715.00b717b0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:18 PM 11/6/98 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: >On Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 01:47:22PM -0500, Drew Baxter > wrote: >> At 09:21 AM 11/6/98 +0000, Stuart Henderson wrote: >> >Subject says it all... >> > >> >linkexchange wrote: >> >> Today, we have some very exciting news to announce: LinkExchange has >> >> joined Microsoft and we are now a part of the Microsoft Network of >> >> Internet Services! >> > >> >I think I'll just sit back and hopefully watch the banners disappear, if not >> >there's going to be an *awful* lot of Microsoft adverts around :-( >> > >> >But then, they'll probably try and switch it to NT, in which case half of >them >> >will probably be blank :-) >> > >> >> Goddamnit.. not again.. they already have hotmail.. >> >> >> --- >> Drew "Droobie" Baxter >> Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) >> OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 >> http://www.droo.orland.me.us >> My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT >1998 >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > Conclusion: MS likes to buy companies which run FreeBSD. > Ohh god no! Someone shoot me now!!! > >-- Yan > You suck the life out of everything don't you? I Just suddenly don't feel like giving any more commentary :-) [That's because Microsoft really wants the insider on FreeBSD, the Linux thing is just a front.. Shhh.. They know, they're just waiting for us to figure it out].. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 16:49:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01864 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:49:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01850; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:49:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) From: mike@seidata.com Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23710; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:49:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:49:21 -0500 (EST) To: "Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA01851 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 6 Nov 1998, Dag-Erling C. [iso-8859-1] Smørgrav wrote: > > Great... when will FreeBSD implement this? ;-P > > Never, I hope. There is a proverb about hammers and nails which has > often been invoked for Perl; it is particularly pertinent to this > situation. Ahh, inflection is lost in the cyber-translation yet again. The ';-P' implies, 'tongue in cheek'. ;) Later, -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 17:06:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03360 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:06:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (st-lcremean.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03353 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:06:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id UAA23705; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:00:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19981106200031.A23167@tidalwave.net> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:00:31 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_C=2E_Sm=F8rgrav_?= Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <2083.910372890@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpg1bwhf8h=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_C=2E_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Fri=2C_Nov_06=2C_1998_at_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?07:02:06PM_+0100?= X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 07:02:06PM +0100, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav wrote: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > > "code slurpee" might be more accurate, seems that a lot > > > of code gets sucked in (through the) cold. > > And it usually gives me a big headache. OK, I'll go with that. "Code > > slurpee" it is. Now YOU get to explain this to all our > > non-U.S. members who don't have 7-11 stores and probably don't know > > what a ``slurpee'' even IS. :-) > > Norway *does* have 7-11 (or -4, as my fellow CS students tend to call > them) stores, though they rarely open at 7 or close at 11 (most of > them are open 24/7). We do not, however, have slurpees that I am aware > of. A clarification would certainly be welcome :) [moved to -chat for my own good] All the 7-11s here are 24/7 now as well. :) Anyway, a Slurpee is a lot like a sno-cone; it's basically carbonated water, partially frozen in a chamber very much like an ice-cream churn, then flavored with sugar syrup--and all this done by a special machine, where you pull the handle and the slush pours (sometimes with a LOT of force from the carbonation) into your cup. Every 7-11 store in the US has the machines (usually made by a company called "Cornelius" and holding 2 or 4 different flavors) that dispense Slurpees, and they're usually self-service (they were over-the-counter untill about 10 years ago, I think). -- Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | mailto:lcremean@tidalwave.net http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net | Powered by FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 17:14:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03773 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:14:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03768 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:14:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4025.ime.net [209.90.195.35]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id UAA18914; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:14:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981106201121.00b7aa30@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 20:12:00 -0500 To: lcremean@tidalwave.net, "Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981106200031.A23167@tidalwave.net> References: <2083.910372890@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA03769 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:00 PM 11/6/98 -0500, Lee Cremeans wrote: >On Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 07:02:06PM +0100, Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav wrote: >> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> > > "code slurpee" might be more accurate, seems that a lot >> > > of code gets sucked in (through the) cold. >> > And it usually gives me a big headache. OK, I'll go with that. "Code >> > slurpee" it is. Now YOU get to explain this to all our >> > non-U.S. members who don't have 7-11 stores and probably don't know >> > what a ``slurpee'' even IS. :-) >> >> Norway *does* have 7-11 (or -4, as my fellow CS students tend to call >> them) stores, though they rarely open at 7 or close at 11 (most of >> them are open 24/7). We do not, however, have slurpees that I am aware >> of. A clarification would certainly be welcome :) > >[moved to -chat for my own good] > >All the 7-11s here are 24/7 now as well. :) Anyway, a Slurpee is a lot like >a sno-cone; it's basically carbonated water, partially frozen in a chamber >very much like an ice-cream churn, then flavored with sugar syrup--and all >this done by a special machine, where you pull the handle and the slush >pours (sometimes with a LOT of force from the carbonation) into your cup. >Every 7-11 store in the US has the machines (usually made by a company >called "Cornelius" and holding 2 or 4 different flavors) that dispense >Slurpees, and they're usually self-service (they were over-the-counter >untill about 10 years ago, I think). > >-- >Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet) >A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did >$++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | mailto:lcremean@tidalwave.net >http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net | Powered by FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT > > A Slush Puppie is strikingly similar.. Although the Slurpee's are like Mountain Dew and inane things like that that would likely cause my heart to beat out of their chest.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 17:18:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03977 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:18:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclops.xtra.co.nz (cyclops.xtra.co.nz [202.27.184.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03937 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:17:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker (210-55-210-87.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.55.210.87]) by cyclops.xtra.co.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA29381; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:17:38 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199811070117.OAA29381@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: DVL Software Limited To: Drew Baxter Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:17:34 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) Reply-to: junkmale@xtra.co.nz CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <4.1.19981106201121.00b7aa30@genesis.ispace.com> References: <19981106200031.A23167@tidalwave.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 6 Nov 98, at 20:12, Drew Baxter wrote: > A Slush Puppie is strikingly similar.. Although the Slurpee's are like > Mountain Dew and inane things like that that would likely cause my heart > to beat out of their chest.. I remember having to explain the difference between a slush puppy and a hush puppy once. (hush puppy = brand of shoe, slush puppy = drink). -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 17:20:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04217 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:20:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04212 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:20:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4025.ime.net [209.90.195.35]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id UAA18922; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:19:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981106201700.00a8e9a0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 20:17:51 -0500 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811070117.OAA29381@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> References: <4.1.19981106201121.00b7aa30@genesis.ispace.com> <19981106200031.A23167@tidalwave.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:17 PM 11/7/98 +1300, Dan Langille wrote: >On 6 Nov 98, at 20:12, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> A Slush Puppie is strikingly similar.. Although the Slurpee's are like >> Mountain Dew and inane things like that that would likely cause my heart >> to beat out of their chest.. > >I remember having to explain the difference between a slush puppy and a >hush puppy once. (hush puppy = brand of shoe, slush puppy = drink). > >-- >Dan Langille >The FreeBSD Diary >http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd Sounds about right.. by the way, I actually got natd to work.. Come to find out it was fine all along, but my esteemed collegue at the console didn't mention that it locked at Sendmail on bootup until AFTER I was pulling my hair out.. Go figure. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 17:29:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04990 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:29:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from set.scient.com (set.scient.com [208.202.109.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA04922; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:29:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: by set.scient.com; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA10283; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:29:08 -0800 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:28:30 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: enkhyl@hayseed.net To: Mikael Karpberg Cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" In-Reply-To: <199811062214.XAA11699@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It might be useful for prototyping of filesystems, which is what I use perl for a lot of times (prototyping in general, that is :-) On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > According to Ruslan Shevchenko: > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > > IMHO, Linux-ism > > IMO: "Maybe, but so what? That's WAY COOOOOL!" > it's not a good idea to scrap all the filesystems and redo them in perl, > or anything... but as an extension it can only bring good. > > It IS a rather neat idea... If we could make a similar thing that had the > same API, we could share code with them too. And yes... it's less efficient, > but then again... You don't always care, do you? I mean... if it gets to be > a generic interface (version are written for all BSDs too, etc) then we > might find a lot of obscure filesystems implmented like that... which > might allow us to support reading/write such filsystems to people that > need it, without having to do anything. And these people will be MUCH > happier that they can read/write that file they needed to/from their > obscure filesystem at half the speed then not at all. > > I wonder how much work it would be... How do they integrate perl with > the kernel?? That could get ugly :) > > *starts diggint for details* -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 17:34:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05356 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:34:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclops.xtra.co.nz (cyclops.xtra.co.nz [202.27.184.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05347 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker (210-55-210-87.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.55.210.87]) by cyclops.xtra.co.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA00359; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:34:02 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199811070134.OAA00359@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: DVL Software Limited To: Drew Baxter Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:33:59 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) Reply-to: junkmale@xtra.co.nz CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <4.1.19981106201700.00a8e9a0@genesis.ispace.com> References: <199811070117.OAA29381@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 6 Nov 98, at 20:17, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 02:17 PM 11/7/98 +1300, Dan Langille wrote: > >I remember having to explain the difference between a slush puppy and a > >hush puppy once. (hush puppy = brand of shoe, slush puppy = drink). > > > Sounds about right.. by the way, I actually got natd to work.. Come to > find out it was fine all along, but my esteemed collegue at the console > didn't mention that it locked at Sendmail on bootup until AFTER I was > pulling my hair out.. Go figure. And I just had trouble with ntpdate. I didn't notice I'd enable both that and the daemon within /etc/rc.conf. I removed that and my boot time decreased significantly. Right now, I'm playing with IP Filter and trying to figure out what these packets are which are being blocked and why. I can't see to figure out how to see the details of the blocked ones. later. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 17:36:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05535 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:36:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05514 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:36:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4025.ime.net [209.90.195.35]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id UAA18939; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:36:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981106203331.00b50df0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 20:33:58 -0500 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811070134.OAA00359@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> References: <4.1.19981106201700.00a8e9a0@genesis.ispace.com> <199811070117.OAA29381@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:33 PM 11/7/98 +1300, Dan Langille wrote: >On 6 Nov 98, at 20:17, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> At 02:17 PM 11/7/98 +1300, Dan Langille wrote: > >> >I remember having to explain the difference between a slush puppy and a >> >hush puppy once. (hush puppy = brand of shoe, slush puppy = drink). >> > >> Sounds about right.. by the way, I actually got natd to work.. Come to >> find out it was fine all along, but my esteemed collegue at the console >> didn't mention that it locked at Sendmail on bootup until AFTER I was >> pulling my hair out.. Go figure. > >And I just had trouble with ntpdate. I didn't notice I'd enable both that >and the daemon within /etc/rc.conf. I removed that and my boot time >decreased significantly. > >Right now, I'm playing with IP Filter and trying to figure out what these >packets are which are being blocked and why. I can't see to figure out >how to see the details of the blocked ones. > >later. > >-- >Dan Langille >The FreeBSD Diary >http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd I got a Sonicwall Plus DMZ that does NAT and all that.. interesting device for 1500 bucks.. I dont use it for Nat, but it does DHCP and firewalling and some other various things. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 19:47:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18956 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:47:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.tds.edu (zeus.tds.edu [38.149.131.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18951; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:47:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from willow@tds.edu) Received: from zeus.tds.edu (willow@zeus.tds.edu [38.149.131.15]) by zeus.tds.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03292; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:47:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:47:10 -0500 (EST) From: Willow To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet account Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org People running NT and other OS's that dont have 'shell/telnet' accounts can still have a free account here for testing as long as you follow our TOS/AUP. -- willow@tds.edu -- On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Willow wrote: > Anyone on the list willing to trade telnet accounts for testing and > diagnostic purposes? If so email me off-list and I will set things up on > this end. > > I would like accounts on as many backbones as possible for testing. I > agree in advance and in writing if needed to abide by your AUP/TOS. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 20:48:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23897 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:48:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po9.andrew.cmu.edu (PO9.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23892 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:48:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tcrimi+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po9.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id XAA10648 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:47:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:47:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:47:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:47:53 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Valentino Crimi To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp In-Reply-To: <21797.910393984@gjp.erols.com> References: <21797.910393984@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Excerpts from FreeBSD-Chat: 6-Nov-98 Re: cvs commit: src/release.. by "Gary Palmer"@FreeBSD.OR > 2) Why a shop that is open 24x7 has locks on the door. I've actaully seen one closed here in Pittsburgh, the guy needed to take a bathroom break.. I was goign to suggest a john behind the counter but decided he had enough problems. Of course, Pittsburgh is a place where shops close soon after 5.. I'd bet a slurpee that'd be the only 7-11 that closes at around 11 or wheenver it is that even the college area goes dead. And to think I'm a native of NYC ;) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 22:21:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00708 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:21:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00703 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:21:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zc1kP-0004cY-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:21:21 +0200 Message-ID: <19981107082120.B17711@cityip.co.za> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:21:20 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: More commentary on Halloween Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A very interesting commentary on the Halloween document which seems to reflect the FreeBSD way of thinking (though FreeBSD is not mentioned) can be found at: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit19981105.html -- V Johann Visagie | wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 | ICQ: 20645559 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 6 22:31:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01540 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:31:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01535 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA29787; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:31:31 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981107003130.46743@futuresouth.com> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:31:30 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Drew Baxter Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) References: <2083.910372890@time.cdrom.com> <19981106200031.A23167@tidalwave.net> <4.1.19981106201121.00b7aa30@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981106201121.00b7aa30@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 08:12:00PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ CC snip] On Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 08:12:00PM -0500, Drew Baxter woke me up to tell me: > > A Slush Puppie is strikingly similar.. Although the Slurpee's are like > Mountain Dew and inane things like that that would likely cause my heart to > beat out of their chest.. The 7-11 up the road from where I (more precisely, a few of my friends) used to live had these Pina Colada slurpees. We used to start those Friday nights (which included a surprising amount of coding, actually) off by picking up a few, and brining them back to make proper pina coladas out of them. So what's the difference between a Dust Puppie and a Crud Puppie? ;> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 01:23:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12445 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA12439 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:23:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4001.ime.net [209.90.195.11]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id EAA22481; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 04:22:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981107042044.00b55660@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:21:04 -0500 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981107003130.46743@futuresouth.com> References: <4.1.19981106201121.00b7aa30@genesis.ispace.com> <2083.910372890@time.cdrom.com> <19981106200031.A23167@tidalwave.net> <4.1.19981106201121.00b7aa30@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:31 AM 11/7/98 -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >[ CC snip] > >On Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 08:12:00PM -0500, Drew Baxter woke me up to tell me: >> >> A Slush Puppie is strikingly similar.. Although the Slurpee's are like >> Mountain Dew and inane things like that that would likely cause my heart to >> beat out of their chest.. > >The 7-11 up the road from where I (more precisely, a few of my friends) >used to live had these Pina Colada slurpees. We used to start those >Friday nights (which included a surprising amount of coding, actually) >off by picking up a few, and brining them back to make proper pina >coladas out of them. > >So what's the difference between a Dust Puppie and a Crud Puppie? ;> > > >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >| FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | >* "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * >| that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| >* fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * >| http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Hmmm I'm really not sure, I think I'll leave that one up to Dan to answer.. heh. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 01:37:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13873 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:37:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA13860 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:37:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA03091; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:07:16 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id UAA01423; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:07:16 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981107200716.P499@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:07:16 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: mike@seidata.com, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_C=2E_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from mike@seidata.com on Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 07:49:21PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [dropping -hackers] On Friday, 6 November 1998 at 19:49:21 -0500, mike@seidata.com wrote: > On 6 Nov 1998, Dag-Erling C. [iso-8859-1] Smørgrav wrote: > >>> Great... when will FreeBSD implement this? ;-P >> >> Never, I hope. There is a proverb about hammers and nails which has >> often been invoked for Perl; it is particularly pertinent to this >> situation. > > Ahh, inflection is lost in the cyber-translation yet again. The > ';-P' implies, 'tongue in cheek'. ;) And I thought it meant hanging down over your chin. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 02:43:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19726 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:43:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclops.xtra.co.nz (cyclops.xtra.co.nz [202.27.184.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA19720 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:43:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker (210-55-210-87.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.55.210.87]) by cyclops.xtra.co.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA03138; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:42:56 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199811071042.XAA03138@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: DVL Software Limited To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:42:55 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Slurpees (was: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp) Reply-to: junkmale@xtra.co.nz CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19981107003130.46743@futuresouth.com> References: <4.1.19981106201121.00b7aa30@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Fri, Nov 06, 1998 at 08:12:00PM -0500 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 7 Nov 98, at 0:31, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > So what's the difference between a Dust Puppie and a Crud Puppie? ;> I dunno. never heard of either. Wait! DustPuppy is an ircop on undernet... -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 05:10:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA02160 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 05:10:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA02154 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 05:10:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id IAA25157 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:10:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:10:05 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: X desktop contest? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I notied the xcontest page no longer is valid, is it over? who won? Wheres the final winners product :-) Chris -- "You both seem to be ignoring the fact that the networking market is driven by so-called 'IT professionals' these days, most of whom can't tell the difference between an ARP and a carp." --Wes Peters ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 3.0 is available now! | Phone: (402)573-9124 / ICQ # 20016186 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 07:55:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12356 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 07:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12351 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 07:55:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11325; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 07:55:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X desktop contest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:10:05 EST." Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 07:55:55 -0800 Message-ID: <11321.910454155@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I notied the xcontest page no longer is valid, is it over? who won? > Wheres the final winners product :-) Nobody really entered, so it was called off. Not enough desktop interest in FreeBSD yet, I guess. :( - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 08:08:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12840 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:08:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12831 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id LAA19126; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:08:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:08:23 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X desktop contest? In-Reply-To: <11321.910454155@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Nobody really entered, so it was called off. Not enough desktop interest > in FreeBSD yet, I guess. :( Gee thats to bad... <60 second pause> So... What happens to all the spiffy 0-day prizes? Like the T-Shirt and whatnot. :-) Chris -- "You both seem to be ignoring the fact that the networking market is driven by so-called 'IT professionals' these days, most of whom can't tell the difference between an ARP and a carp." --Wes Peters ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 3.0 is available now! | Phone: (402)573-9124 / ICQ # 20016186 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 08:22:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13375 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:22:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13370 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:22:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11450; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:23:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X desktop contest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Nov 1998 11:08:23 EST." Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:23:24 -0800 Message-ID: <11446.910455804@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > So... What happens to all the spiffy 0-day prizes? > Like the T-Shirt and whatnot. :-) They're waiting for a more successful contest idea. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 10:58:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27861 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:58:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from abby.skypoint.net (abby.skypoint.net [199.86.32.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27856 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:58:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bruce@zuhause.mn.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by abby.skypoint.net (8.8.7/jl 1.3) with UUCP id MAA27858; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:58:08 -0600 (CST) Received: (from bruce@localhost) by zuhause.mn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14733; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:53:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from bruce) From: Bruce Albrecht MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13892.38710.557945.569622@zuhause.zuhause.mn.org> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:53:42 -0600 (CST) To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: John Birrell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" In-Reply-To: References: <199811062103.IAA05595@cimlogic.com.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai writes: > On 06-Nov-98 John Birrell wrote: > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> http://dd.sh/perlfs/ > > > > Oh sh*t. Next there will be perl-in-a-chip. > > I wonder what Larry Wall is thinking right now. Probably that it's on par with the Perl Haiku. Did anyone bother to look at the root page for http://dd.sh? To which I quote: dd/sh: The One True Programming Language dd/sh is a simple, compact programming language which can do everything although not always the way you are used to. dd/sh is a product of Assurdo Technologies, who are proud members of FoMCoL (Foundation for the Mis-application of Computer Languages). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 11:01:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28246 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:01:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28241 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:01:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.05demon1 #1) id 0zcDbt-0001mI-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:01:22 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA01523 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:00:45 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00958; Sat, 7 Nov 98 19:00:42 GMT Message-Id: <364498A4.B66EC78D@uk.radan.com> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:59:48 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Whetever happened to the X desktop contest??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've just been to www.freebsd.org and found "X contest is no more". What happened? Not enough entries? (I assume it's been abandoned as there has been no announcement of winners). I would have entered, but olvwm was not on the list of 'approved' WM's :-( -- When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.uk.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 12:58:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09411 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:58:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09401 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:58:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-38.camalott.com [208.229.74.38]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11818; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:58:40 -0600 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA13588; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:58:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Jamie Howard Cc: mark thompson , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: From NTK... References: From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 07 Nov 1998 14:58:07 -0600 In-Reply-To: Jamie Howard's message of "Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:02:40 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: <86vhkrqkyo.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat] >> - next: X-Windows servers using trained cellular automata > This would be cool, I once wrote a calculator (only addition) using > Christopher Langton's Vants. I doubt I have the source code anymore > though. :( What are vants? -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 13:18:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10941 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 13:18:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.147.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10936 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 13:18:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06377; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:17:46 -0500 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:17:46 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Howard To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: From NTK... In-Reply-To: <86vhkrqkyo.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 7 Nov 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > What are vants? >From http://alife.santafe.edu/alife/topics/cas/ca-faq/types/types.html The Vant rule, by Chris Langton, describes the path of an ant who starts pointing in a certain direction. If the ant is on a non-white square it turns the square red, rotates 90 degrees clockwise and moves one pixel in the direction it is pointing. If it is on a red square it turns the square white, rotates 90 degrees counterclockwise and moves one pixel in the direction it is pointing. A generalization of Lanton's Ant can be found in Rudy Rucker, ARTIFICIAL LIFE LAB, Waite Group Press. There were also some articles about Lanton's Ant in Dewdney's magazine Algorithm, and I believe there was an article in The Mathematical Intelligencer. Langton's original article in the reference cited by Dewdney is well worth looking up. They totally rule and are really fun to watch when set up with random configurations. I wanted to implement an LKM screen-saver using them, but never got around to it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 14:10:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15716 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15711 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:10:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-38.camalott.com [208.229.74.38]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15436; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:10:26 -0600 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA18090; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:09:41 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) To: Jamie Howard Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: From NTK... References: From: Joel Ray Holveck Date: 07 Nov 1998 16:09:32 -0600 In-Reply-To: Jamie Howard's message of "Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:17:46 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: <86sofvqhnm.fsf@detlev.UUCP> Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> What are vants? > From http://alife.santafe.edu/alife/topics/cas/ca-faq/types/types.html > The Vant rule, by Chris Langton, describes the path of an ant who > starts pointing in a certain direction. [snip] > They totally rule and are really fun to watch when set up with random > configurations. I wanted to implement an LKM screen-saver using them, but > never got around to it. I'll have to check this out. And the author devised a calculus to handle analyze them? Cheers, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 14:53:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19023 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:53:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19016 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:53:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id XAA02755; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:51:51 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:51:51 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce Albrecht Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , John Birrell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" References: <199811062103.IAA05595@cimlogic.com.au> <13892.38710.557945.569622@zuhause.zuhause.mn.org> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 07 Nov 1998 23:51:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: Bruce Albrecht's message of "Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:53:42 -0600 (CST)" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA19018 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bruce Albrecht writes: > Did anyone bother to look at the root page for http://dd.sh? > To which I quote: > > dd/sh: The One True Programming Language > > dd/sh is a simple, compact programming language which can do > everything although not always the way you are used to. This is sick, sick, sick. These people not only claim that you can do anything with just dd and sh, but actually go on to prove it by writing a line editor, a web server and a general Turing machine using only dd and sh. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 15:57:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24635 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:57:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24630 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.97]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA44A2; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:57:31 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 01:01:29 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Subject: Re: "Eek" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, John Birrell , Bruce Albrecht Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 07-Nov-98 Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav wrote: > Bruce Albrecht writes: >> Did anyone bother to look at the root page for http://dd.sh? >> To which I quote: >> >> dd/sh: The One True Programming Language >> >> dd/sh is a simple, compact programming language which can do >> everything although not always the way you are used to. > > This is sick, sick, sick. These people not only claim that you can do > anything with just dd and sh, but actually go on to prove it by > writing a line editor, a web server and a general Turing machine using > only dd and sh. Gotta admire their perseverance? ;) Or so we put that under insanity? Although, just saw Seven... Nothing can beat that for insane things ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl Junior Network/Security Specialist *BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 16:01:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25108 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25090 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:01:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4031.ime.net [209.90.195.41]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA23142; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:00:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981107185805.00987aa0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 18:58:49 -0500 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: "Eek" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, John Birrell , Bruce Albrecht In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA25101 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:01 AM 11/8/98 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >On 07-Nov-98 Dag-Erling C. Smørgrav wrote: >> Bruce Albrecht writes: >>> Did anyone bother to look at the root page for http://dd.sh? >>> To which I quote: >>> >>> dd/sh: The One True Programming Language >>> >>> dd/sh is a simple, compact programming language which can do >>> everything although not always the way you are used to. >> >> This is sick, sick, sick. These people not only claim that you can do >> anything with just dd and sh, but actually go on to prove it by >> writing a line editor, a web server and a general Turing machine using >> only dd and sh. > >Gotta admire their perseverance? ;) > >Or so we put that under insanity? Although, just saw Seven... Nothing can beat >that for insane things ;) Ahaha I have that on video, borrowed it from my aunt. I have yet to watch it, because I got up to the part with the pine tree fresheners and I was in the middle of eating. .Decided THAT was not the time to watch that :P This was about 6 months ago, still haven't put it back in the player to make myself more ill.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 16:06:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27053 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:06:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27043 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:06:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00477; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:03:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199811080003.QAA00477@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) cc: Bruce Albrecht , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , John Birrell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Eek" In-reply-to: Your message of "07 Nov 1998 23:51:50 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 16:03:46 -0800 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA27044 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Bruce Albrecht writes: > > Did anyone bother to look at the root page for http://dd.sh? > > To which I quote: > > > > dd/sh: The One True Programming Language > > > > dd/sh is a simple, compact programming language which can do > > everything although not always the way you are used to. > > This is sick, sick, sick. These people not only claim that you can do > anything with just dd and sh, but actually go on to prove it by > writing a line editor, a web server and a general Turing machine using > only dd and sh. The entire Ultrix install was written using these principles; they may be insane, but they're quite valid. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 16:37:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01760 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:37:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053n18.san.rr.com (dt053n18.san.rr.com [204.210.34.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01746; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:37:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053n18.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22302; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:37:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <3644E7C7.A79DF27@gorean.org> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 16:37:27 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-1101 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Palmer CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp References: <21797.910393984@gjp.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gary Palmer wrote: > 1) Why a shop called `7-11' is open 24 hours a day Because when the chain first started here in Southern California, they were open from 7am to 11pm. Actually it's a textbook case of how important it is to choose a good name for your company. :) They actually did try to change the names of the stores here in San Diego for a while, it was a huge disaster. > 2) Why a shop that is open 24x7 has locks on the door. Some of them actually do close, but as mentioned previously when the clerk is alone in the store late at night they lock the door so that they can go answer nature's call. :) Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 16:43:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02478 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:43:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02465; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:43:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4031.ime.net [209.90.195.41]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id TAA23176; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:43:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981107194015.00ab85f0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:41:12 -0500 To: Studded , Gary Palmer From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall/help XF86.hlp hardware.hlp Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3644E7C7.A79DF27@gorean.org> References: <21797.910393984@gjp.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:37 PM 11/7/98 -0800, Studded wrote: >Gary Palmer wrote: > >> 1) Why a shop called `7-11' is open 24 hours a day > > Because when the chain first started here in Southern California, they >were open from 7am to 11pm. Actually it's a textbook case of how >important it is to choose a good name for your company. :) They >actually did try to change the names of the stores here in San Diego for >a while, it was a huge disaster. > >> 2) Why a shop that is open 24x7 has locks on the door. > > Some of them actually do close, but as mentioned previously when the >clerk is alone in the store late at night they lock the door so that >they can go answer nature's call. :) > >Doug We have Big Apple stores here, as well as Christy's (Which were 7-11 until New England's 7-11's were bought out. Aparantely we get our 7-11's back soon instead). I had a friend whos replacement didn't come in, so he locked up the store and left. Sure he got fired, but that'd be a reason to have locks on the doors :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 7 22:26:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07548 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 22:26:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA07538 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 22:26:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-74.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.74]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA02910 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 00:26:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24597 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 00:09:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199811080609.AAA24597@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: "Eek" In-reply-to: Message from Mike Smith of "Sat, 07 Nov 1998 16:03:46 PST." <199811080003.QAA00477@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 00:09:29 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Have been thinking about this thread. And thinking about how in recent weeks suddenly the trade rag parrots (a.k.a. "journalists") have started singing the Microsoft Party Line on WindowsCE. Others here have joked of Perl-on-a-chip. I don't think that is so bad of an idea. Like it better than Java on a chip. Maybe I'd buy a pocket organizer with PerlCE as an OS. What the heck? The HP-41C is my favorite pocket computer. Own 6 of 'em, I better like them. :-) Anyone porting FreeBSD (or Perl) to the HP-41C yet? Think these guys at http://dd.sh/perlfs/ could be inspired? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message