From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 18 15: 2:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0E614F11 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA77562; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:00:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:00:27 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Joseph Scott , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Linux on college radio show. Message-ID: <19990718230027.A77259@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <379008F4.1131C4B2@newsguy.com> <692.932187184@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <692.932187184@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 09:53:04PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 09:53:04PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Jordan was more, err, likable. :-) But, then again, I'm biased. I'd > > really like to hear what unbiased people thought... > > Me too - there's always room for improvement. Wish I hadn't had > such a bad cold during the interview too, but them's the breaks. I can't play RealAudio files -- if anyone can make a transcript of this available, I can take a first stab at interspersing it with comments that explain why the Linux chap is wrong. Might make useful advocacy ammunition. N -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 19 6:41:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from kronos.alcnet.com (kronos.alcnet.com [63.69.28.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A6414D37 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@alcnet.com) X-Provider: ALC Communications, Inc. http://www.alcnet.com/ Received: from kbyanc (ws-41.alcnet.com [63.69.28.41]) by kronos.alcnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/antispam) with SMTP id JAA22852 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:57:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kelly Yancey" To: Subject: Team FreeBSD member stats now on-line Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:53:17 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01bed1ee$0da52160$291c453f@kbyanc.alcnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Members of Team FreeBSD on distributed.net can now see graphs of their own progress on the official Team FreeBSD site: http://www.posi.net/freebsd/Team-FreeBSD. While graphs showing the progress of the team as a whole have been on-line for some time now, members can now visualize their own progress and their progress relative to other team members. Currently, members of Team FreeBSD are only included in the stats collecting and graphing if they sign up to have their distriubted.net stats watched. So if you are a member of Team FreeBSD and do not see your distributed.net ID listed, feel free to signup at http://www.posi.net/freebsd/Team-FreeBSD/members/#signup. Of course, if you are not currently a member of Team FreeBSD, what are you waiting for? :) I have to congratulate the team on making great progress these past couple of weeks. While we have dropped 1 place down to 23rd on distributed.net's overall rankings, our numbers are growing and I am confident that if we continue growing at the rate we are currently then should be able to not only retake 22nd place, but keep working our way up toward #1. Everyone, keep up the good work! Kelly ~kbyanc@posi.net~ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve - http://www.freebsd.org/ Join Team FreeBSD - http://www.posi.net/freebsd/Team-FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 19 19:12:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from the.oneinsane.net (the.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98797152E2 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:12:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net) Received: from lunatic.oneinsane.net (insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.231]) by the.oneinsane.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02447 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from insane@localhost) by lunatic.oneinsane.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA50182 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:10:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:10:07 -0700 From: "Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: An article about FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990719191007.A50154@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Reply-To: Ron Rosson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD lunatic.oneinsane.net 3.2-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM X-WWW: http://www.oneinsane.net X-PGP-KEY: http://www.oneinsane.net/~insane/insane-pgp5i.txt X-Uptime: 7:07PM up 5 days, 2:46, 2 users, load averages: 0.11, 0.06, 0.01 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is a small free magazine put out in CO and San Diego. Well in the edition that came out July 16, 1999 the "I don't do windows" article was about FreeBSD. Here is the URL: http://www.computoredge.com/sandiego/Editorial/idon'tdo.htm -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void ------------------------------------------------------------------- A bore is someone who persists in holding his own views after we have enlightened him with ours. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 19 21:24:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F082150AA for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:24:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id VAA15231; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id VAA20486; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:23:27 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA17673; Mon, 19 Jul 99 21:23:41 PDT Message-Id: <3793F9CC.4F69337E@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:23:41 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Ron Rosson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An article about FreeBSD References: <19990719191007.A50154@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson wrote: > > There is a small free magazine put out in CO and San Diego. Well in the > edition that came out July 16, 1999 the "I don't do windows" article was > about FreeBSD. Here is the URL: > > http://www.computoredge.com/sandiego/Editorial/idon'tdo.htm > -- Why do I get the idea he's paraphrasing me in several places? All in all, not a bad effort, though his attempts at UNIX history were a little laughable. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 19 21:43:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from the.oneinsane.net (the.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2F81511B for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:43:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net) Received: from lunatic.oneinsane.net (insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.231]) by the.oneinsane.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08450 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from insane@localhost) by lunatic.oneinsane.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA53109 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:40:34 -0700 From: "Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An article about FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990719214034.A53009@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Reply-To: Ron Rosson References: <19990719191007.A50154@lunatic.oneinsane.net> <3793F9CC.4F69337E@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <3793F9CC.4F69337E@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 10:23:41PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD lunatic.oneinsane.net 3.2-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM X-WWW: http://www.oneinsane.net X-PGP-KEY: http://www.oneinsane.net/~insane/insane-pgp5i.txt X-Uptime: 9:38PM up 5 days, 5:16, 2 users, load averages: 0.06, 0.06, 0.04 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Wes Peters was heard blurting out: > Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson wrote: > > > > There is a small free magazine put out in CO and San Diego. Well in the > > edition that came out July 16, 1999 the "I don't do windows" article was > > about FreeBSD. Here is the URL: > > > > http://www.computoredge.com/sandiego/Editorial/idon'tdo.htm > > -- > > Why do I get the idea he's paraphrasing me in several places? > > All in all, not a bad effort, though his attempts at UNIX history were a > little laughable. > I didn't say it was perfect. But hey it is a well known magazine here and it is free. It got exposure.. I agree though It did sound like I have read it before ;-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void ------------------------------------------------------------------- A hard-on does not count as personal growth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 19 21:46:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774D01511B for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:46:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA14809; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:15:33 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA83781; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:15:32 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:15:32 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: Ron Rosson , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An article about FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990720141531.G81840@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990719191007.A50154@lunatic.oneinsane.net> <3793F9CC.4F69337E@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3793F9CC.4F69337E@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jul 19, 1999 at 10:23:41PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 19 July 1999 at 22:23:41 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson wrote: >> >> There is a small free magazine put out in CO and San Diego. Well in the >> edition that came out July 16, 1999 the "I don't do windows" article was >> about FreeBSD. Here is the URL: >> >> http://www.computoredge.com/sandiego/Editorial/idon'tdo.htm >> -- > > Why do I get the idea he's paraphrasing me in several places? Yes, it seemed that way to me, too. "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". I'd guess that your article inspired him to install FreeBSD, and he liked what he saw. > All in all, not a bad effort, though his attempts at UNIX history > were a little laughable. I don't know if "laughable" is the right term. I wrote to him and sent him some corrections, anyway. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 20 1:58:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B55414BE0 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA21484 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:57:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:57:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSDCon '99 ??? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everyone! I'm a little bit disappointed about the organizers of FreeBSDCon '99. I sent two or three times a question about submitting a paper to info@freebsdcon.org or papers@freebsdcon.org without *any* response. Instead of having used sendmail, I could have moved my mail directly to /dev/null. It's absolutely my intention to detach my cutup from my personal experience. It's just my opinion that an event made to increase the publicity of FreeBSD should not lead to frustration in the user community. Maybe my experience is singular one. In that case, the reader should forget this mail or reply with a positive message. But if someone else has made a similar experience, we should discuss, and the organizers of FreeBSDCon '99 should think about. Regards // // Konrad Heuer ____ ___ _____= __=20 // Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche / __/______ ___ / _ )/ __= / _ \ // Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen / _// __/ -_) -_) _ |\ \/= // / // Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen /_/ /_/ \__/\__/____/___= /____/=20 // Deutschland (Germany) ----- The Power to Serve ----= - // http://www.freebsd.org // kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de // To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 20 2:26: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B1514BE4 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 02:25:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA13700; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 05:25:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 05:25:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Konrad Heuer Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSDCon '99 ??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I sent an email about this a while ago also and it also appeared to disappear, as it were. Unfortunately, that was at least a month or two ago and I don't remember where exactly the email went. :-) However, I was interested in talking about POSIX.1e, security, et al if anyone was interested. Alternatively, I was interested in describing speculative process execution to generate file system prefetches, as implemented in a 4.0-current kernel a month or two ago. On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Konrad Heuer wrote: >=20 > Hi everyone! >=20 > I'm a little bit disappointed about the organizers of FreeBSDCon '99. I > sent two or three times a question about submitting a paper to > info@freebsdcon.org or papers@freebsdcon.org without *any* response. > Instead of having used sendmail, I could have moved my mail directly to > /dev/null. >=20 > It's absolutely my intention to detach my cutup from my personal > experience. It's just my opinion that an event made to increase the > publicity of FreeBSD should not lead to frustration in the user community= =2E >=20 > Maybe my experience is singular one. In that case, the reader should > forget this mail or reply with a positive message. But if someone else ha= s > made a similar experience, we should discuss, and the organizers of > FreeBSDCon '99 should think about. >=20 > Regards >=20 > // > // Konrad Heuer ____ ___ ___= ____=20 > // Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche / __/______ ___ / _ )/ = __/ _ \ > // Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen / _// __/ -_) -_) _ |\ = \/ // / > // Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen /_/ /_/ \__/\__/____/_= __/____/=20 > // Deutschland (Germany) ----- The Power to Serve --= --- > // http://www.freebsd.org > // kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de > // >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >=20 Robert N M Watson=20 robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 TIS Labs at Network Associates, Computing Laboratory at Cambridge Universit= y Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 20 2:37: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 614BE151AB for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 02:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 62372 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Jul 1999 09:35:26 -0000 Date: 20 Jul 1999 02:35:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 02:35:26 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: Konrad Heuer Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSDCon '99 ??? Message-ID: <19990720023526.B62218@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Konrad Heuer on Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 10:57:55AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Konrad. I am the receipent of your emails. I'm sorry that I didnt reply to you in a timely manner. We are in the process of trying to define how the conference is going to be laid out and what sorts of talks we would like to see happen. Even though I didnt email you back, you were not forgotten. I filed you as someone that I needed to get more info to when it was available. In retrospect, I should have let you know this. As far as topics for papers go the best way to approach this at this point is to let me know what topics you might be interested in speaking on and I can let you know if one of those topics would fit into the over all plan as it's forming. Again, I apologize for my blunder. -Bill On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 10:57:55AM +0200, Konrad Heuer wrote: > I'm a little bit disappointed about the organizers of FreeBSDCon '99. I > sent two or three times a question about submitting a paper to > info@freebsdcon.org or papers@freebsdcon.org without *any* response. > Instead of having used sendmail, I could have moved my mail directly to > /dev/null. > > It's absolutely my intention to detach my cutup from my personal > experience. It's just my opinion that an event made to increase the > publicity of FreeBSD should not lead to frustration in the user community. > > Maybe my experience is singular one. In that case, the reader should > forget this mail or reply with a positive message. But if someone else has > made a similar experience, we should discuss, and the organizers of > FreeBSDCon '99 should think about. > > Regards -- -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 20 3: 8:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC630152A2; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:07:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA21669; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:05:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:05:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: Bill Swingle Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Subject: Re: FreeBSDCon '99 ??? In-Reply-To: <19990720023526.B62218@dub.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 Jul 1999, Bill Swingle wrote: Bill, thanks for your explanation and your immediate reply. > Konrad. I am the receipent of your emails. I'm sorry that I didnt reply > to you in a timely manner. We are in the process of trying to define how > the conference is going to be laid out and what sorts of talks we would > like to see happen. Even though I didnt email you back, you were not > forgotten. I filed you as someone that I needed to get more info to when > it was available. In retrospect, I should have let you know this. >=20 > As far as topics for papers go the best way to approach this at this > point is to let me know what topics you might be interested in speaking > on and I can let you know if one of those topics would fit into the over > all plan as it's forming.=20 I will try to send you some more details this week. Let me say it once again - I didn't want to discuss any personal stuff in a public list. But I hope your explanation will help some more people to understand.=09:-) > Again, I apologize for my blunder. Best wishes // // Konrad Heuer ____ ___ _____= __=20 // Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche / __/______ ___ / _ )/ __= / _ \ // Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen / _// __/ -_) -_) _ |\ \/= // / // Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen /_/ /_/ \__/\__/____/___= /____/=20 // Deutschland (Germany) ----- The Power to Serve ----= - // http://www.freebsd.org // kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de // To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 20 10: 4:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sbridge.highvoltage.com (voltage.high-voltage.com [205.243.158.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 66E8314F9A for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from BMCGROARTY@high-voltage.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:58 -0600 From: "Brian McGroarty" To: "Kelly Yancey" , "freebsd-advocacy" Subject: RE: Team FreeBSD member stats now on-line Message-ID: <81BF53ACDA3DD31186D30008C7333C82@high-voltage.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The Japan FreeBSD team is up in 4th place. If it would be possible to combine the two teams, FreeBSD would be in 3rd place, just below Slashdot. If nothing else, this may buy FreeBSD another Slashdot article. -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Yancey [mailto:kbyanc@alcnet.com] Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 7:53 AM To: Brian McGroarty; freebsd-advocacy Subject: Team FreeBSD member stats now on-line Members of Team FreeBSD on distributed.net can now see graphs of their own progress on the official Team FreeBSD site: http://www.posi.net/freebsd/Team-FreeBSD. While graphs showing the progress of the team as a whole have been on-line for some time now, members can now visualize their own progress and their progress relative to other team members. Currently, members of Team FreeBSD are only included in the stats collecting and graphing if they sign up to have their distriubted.net stats watched. So if you are a member of Team FreeBSD and do not see your distributed.net ID listed, feel free to signup at http://www.posi.net/freebsd/Team-FreeBSD/members/#signup. Of course, if you are not currently a member of Team FreeBSD, what are you waiting for? :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 21 1:57:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E996114DBD for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:57:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id RAA20633; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:56:56 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37958956.8E4F85E6@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:48:22 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Jerry Pournelle and FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, not exactly Jerry Pournelle. He published a somewhat long letter I wrote about FreeBSD. It has a reference on the current view of this week at http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/currentview.html and also on the letter page at http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/currentmail.html, with a link to a separate page with the letter in full. I just hope I did not screw up on anything. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 21 8:35:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16464154BA for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:35:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id AAA11907; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:33:37 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3795E843.5F292F38@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:33:23 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Jerry Pournelle and FreeBSD References: <37958956.8E4F85E6@newsguy.com> <3795E3F3.85F69C35@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > > > > Well, not exactly Jerry Pournelle. He published a somewhat long > > letter I wrote about FreeBSD. It has a reference on the current view > > of this week at http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/currentview.html > > and also on the letter page at > > http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/currentmail.html, with a link to > > a separate page with the letter in full. > > > > I just hope I did not screw up on anything. :-) > > I couldn't find a mention of FreeBSD anywhere at jerrypournelle.com. A > "search" function would be nice. Mmmmm.... That would be because he spelled it "Free BSD". :-) As for a search function, talk to him. He is currently in a love-hate relation with FrontPage, which he uses to write the site. If you can offer him options... :-) (Dreamweaver is on his queue) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 21 9:23: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.numachi.com (numachi.numachi.com [198.175.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 493AF15123 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reichert@numachi.com) Received: (qmail 15172 invoked by uid 1001); 21 Jul 1999 16:22:23 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:22:23 -0400 From: Brian Reichert To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Jerry Pournelle and FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990721122223.G11526@numachi.com> References: <37958956.8E4F85E6@newsguy.com> <3795E3F3.85F69C35@softweyr.com> <3795E843.5F292F38@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <3795E843.5F292F38@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 12:33:23AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 12:33:23AM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > > > > > > Well, not exactly Jerry Pournelle. He published a somewhat long > > > letter I wrote about FreeBSD. It has a reference on the current view > > > of this week at http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/currentview.html > > > and also on the letter page at > > > http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/currentmail.html, with a link to > > > a separate page with the letter in full. > > > > > > I just hope I did not screw up on anything. :-) > > > > I couldn't find a mention of FreeBSD anywhere at jerrypournelle.com. A > > "search" function would be nice. Well, he hid it well. I found it at: http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/currentmail.html#Tuesday " For a discussion by Daniel Sobral on Open Source (to wit Free BSD) vs. Linux as an alternative operating system, click here. I have given it a page of its own because it is fairly long and complete and can serve as a reference for a while." The 'here' link is to: http://www.jerrypournelle.com/linux/freebsd.html -- Brian 'you Bastard' Reichert reichert@numachi.com 37 Crystal Ave. #303 Daytime number: (781) 899-7484 x704 Derry NH 03038-1713 USA Intel architecture: the left-hand path To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 21 22:46:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rebel.net.au (rebel.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA8714E0F for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkenn@rebel.net.au) Received: from 203.20.69.77 (dialup-7.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.77]) by rebel.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA18975 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:15:05 +0930 Received: (qmail 85008 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 05:44:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (kkenn@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 05:44:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:14:49 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway Reply-To: kkenn@rebel.net.au To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems like a pretty nice article. Nice work, Wes Peters and Matthew Fuller for the quotes, too. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 1:21: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC14314D77 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:20:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.210]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1128; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:20:47 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20747; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:20:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:20:41 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: advocacy@freebsd.org, advocacy@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Slashdot poll Message-ID: <19990722102041.A15560@daemon.ninth-circle.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Come on people! Go over to http://slashdot.org and vote for BSD on the poll... The Mac users are even outnumbering us =\ GO! =) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 5:39:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from achilles.gibralter.net (achilles.gibralter.net [216.48.24.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7074014C0B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:39:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hal@achilles.gibralter.net) Received: from localhost (hal@localhost) by achilles.gibralter.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA69762 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:36:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from hal@achilles.gibralter.net) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:36:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Hal Flynn To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe advocacy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 5:46:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1A714D4E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:46:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id IAA17643; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma017473; Thu, 22 Jul 99 08:46:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:46:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Dead link To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ammunition/advocates.html returns: Not Found The requested URL /ammunition/advocates.html was not found on this server. SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 6:10:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thneed.ubergeeks.com (thneed.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915FA14D08 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:10:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by thneed.ubergeeks.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02570; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:07:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) X-Authentication-Warning: thneed.ubergeeks.com: adrian owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:07:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Kris Kennaway Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp > > I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems like a pretty nice article. Nice > work, Wes Peters and Matthew Fuller for the quotes, too. > > Kris I just about fell out of my chair when I saw this quote, 'Has Linux has become too mainstream and lost its appeal among "Ubergeeks"?' (Note my domain. ) Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 6:22:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rebel.net.au (rebel.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E809C14CEB for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkenn@rebel.net.au) Received: from 203.20.69.80 (dialup-10.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.80]) by rebel.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA24838 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:50:30 +0930 Received: (qmail 8727 invoked from network); 22 Jul 1999 13:20:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (kkenn@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 13:20:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:50:47 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway Reply-To: kkenn@rebel.net.au To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp > > > > I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems like a pretty nice article. Nice > > work, Wes Peters and Matthew Fuller for the quotes, too. > > > > Kris > > I just about fell out of my chair when I saw this quote, 'Has Linux > has become too mainstream and lost its appeal among "Ubergeeks"?' > > (Note my domain. ) :-) You should send an email to the author and say "yes, it has." Kris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Feynman Problem-Solving Algorithm: (1) Write down the problem (2) Think real hard (3) Write down the answer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 6:29:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEA7152DD for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:29:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09620; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:28:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG They misspelled "daemonnews.com" it should be '.org'. But at least they got the link to Wes's article right. -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 6:35:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thneed.ubergeeks.com (thneed.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227AE14CEB for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:35:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by thneed.ubergeeks.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02612; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:33:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) X-Authentication-Warning: thneed.ubergeeks.com: adrian owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:33:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Kris Kennaway Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp > > > > > > I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems like a pretty nice article. Nice > > > work, Wes Peters and Matthew Fuller for the quotes, too. > > > > > > Kris > > > > I just about fell out of my chair when I saw this quote, 'Has Linux > > has become too mainstream and lost its appeal among "Ubergeeks"?' > > > > (Note my domain. ) > > :-) > > You should send an email to the author and say "yes, it has." I just did. I also admitted that networking in 386BSD 0.0 was enough to make it more appealing than 0.9x Linux which had no networking at the time and that's what made my initial decision. (Well, I was reading the DDJ Jolitz articles too, I suppose.) cheers, Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 7:22:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686F914DAF for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:22:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA02648; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:23:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:23:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Chris Coleman Cc: Kris Kennaway , Adrian Filipi-Martin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Chris Coleman wrote: > They misspelled "daemonnews.com" it should be '.org'. But at least they > got the link to Wes's article right. They blew the BSD acronym, too, as usual: "...BSD (which stands for Berkeley Software Design)..." Press is press, though :) Nice job, guys. Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 7:30:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D7C1533B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id KAA28631; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma028428; Thu, 22 Jul 99 10:28:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-reply-to: To: "Jasper O'Malley" Cc: Chris Coleman , Kris Kennaway , Adrian Filipi-Martin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The only part I thought was confusing was Oracle's statement that they had no plans to port to BSD. (I read this as *BSD, but maybe they meant BSD/OS, since it was in that context?) I thought I heard somewhere that a native port was forthcoming. SB On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Jasper O'Malley wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Chris Coleman wrote: > > > They misspelled "daemonnews.com" it should be '.org'. But at least they > > got the link to Wes's article right. > > They blew the BSD acronym, too, as usual: > > "...BSD (which stands for Berkeley Software Design)..." > > Press is press, though :) Nice job, guys. > > Cheers, > Mick > > The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com > Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral > Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 7:39:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A49714CDF for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:39:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-155.thuntek.net [207.66.52.155]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id IAA03064; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37972C27.9D711CE9@thuntek.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:35:19 -0600 From: Donald Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@thuntek.net Organization: Wilde Media X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Seth Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wish they'd stop saying "there are no applications" for BSD. Shrinkwrap, yes, but we should hammer home the point that there's lots of good free stuff out there. -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Wilde-Media.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 10: 2:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B1C1552A for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:02:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14809; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:59:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:59:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp > > > > I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems like a pretty nice article. > > Nice work, Wes Peters and Matthew Fuller for the quotes, too. > I just about fell out of my chair when I saw this quote, 'Has Linux > has become too mainstream and lost its appeal among "Ubergeeks"?' Hehe - nice. Apparently the quote is true. The only thing that bothered me was the screwup in the article pointing at DaemonNews. Their link in the "links" section was fine, but they called it daemonnews.com in the article. Sigh. I don't think we're making any money - if so Chris must be stealing it or skimming some off t-shirt sales! :-) Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 10:31:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [195.147.246.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB022156FA for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:31:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@globalnet.co.uk) Received: from p01s10a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.218.2] helo=marder-1.) by sand2.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 117Mg1-0004si-00; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:30:37 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id SAA00353; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:25:21 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:25:20 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Kris Kennaway Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Message-ID: <19990722182520.A269@marder-1> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 03:14:49PM +0930 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 03:14:49PM +0930, Kris Kennaway wrote: > http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp > > I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems like a pretty nice article. Nice > work, Wes Peters and Matthew Fuller for the quotes, too. > Reading the comments to this article on slashdot I see one wit suggest that "Perhaps Linux and FreeBSD could combine to form FreeLSD". Now there's a thought. > Kris > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:markov@globalnet.co.uk http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 10:48:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from server.computeralt.com (server.computeralt.com [207.41.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E7314D44; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:48:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@computeralt.com) Received: from scott (scott.computeralt.com [207.41.29.100]) by server.computeralt.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10312; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990722133920.0300d010@mail.computeralt.com> X-Sender: scott@mail.computeralt.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:46:24 -0400 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: "Scott I. Remick" Subject: FreeBSD makes ZDNet front-page news Cc: www@freebsd.org, jim@advocacy.FreeBSD.org, rob@advocacy.FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It was exciting find this article: (freebsd.org webmaster: this is material for the "In The News" page) (Jim & Rob: good ammunition for your page) ----------------------- Scott I. Remick scott@computeralt.com Network and Information (802)388-7545 ext. 236 Systems Manager FAX:(802)388-3697 Computer Alternatives, Inc. http://www.computeralt.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 10:48:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C92915587 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:48:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 91532 invoked by uid 1001); 22 Jul 1999 17:47:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:47:07 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Message-ID: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Adrian Filipi-Martin on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 09:07:36AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp > > > > I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems like a pretty nice article. Nice > > work, Wes Peters and Matthew Fuller for the quotes, too. > > > > Kris Just as a side note, this chunk of the article is very accurate: When the best, brightest and most suspicious minds from the computer industry gathered in Las Vegas for the DEF CON trade show earlier this month, Linux-taunting by BSD sophisticates wasn't at all subtle. And when one speaker announced that BSD CD-ROMs were being given away at the show, but Red Hat had declined to give away Linux CDs, there was outright jeering. Has Linux has become too mainstream and lost its appeal among "Ubergeeks"? Mke Smith and I went to DefCon this year and were totally surprised to find _zero_ linux vendors there. We had some awesome defcon/freebsd shirts that sold like hotcakes and we gave out the first disk in the 3.1 set and sold the first disk in the 3.1 for a dollar. By the second day it was hard to not walk among the 3000 or so ppl there and not seea FreeBSD shirt and we had given out almost 1000 discs. In comparision to the OpenBSD folks selling everything at full price (and not doing to well at it) and the non-existant Linux vendors I think FreeBSD came out looking really good. Several of the speakers on the second day gave their talks wearing one of our shirts :) Just thought I'd share. :) -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 11: 0:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D1415454; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:00:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id OAA23419; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma022868; Thu, 22 Jul 99 13:59:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:59:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: FreeBSD makes ZDNet front-page news In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.19990722133920.0300d010@mail.computeralt.com> To: "Scott I. Remick" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, www@FreeBSD.ORG, jim@advocacy.FreeBSD.org, rob@advocacy.FreeBSD.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Isn't this the same article as the msnbc one? SB On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Scott I. Remick wrote: > It was exciting find this article: > > > > (freebsd.org webmaster: this is material for the "In The News" page) > (Jim & Rob: good ammunition for your page) > > > ----------------------- > Scott I. Remick scott@computeralt.com > Network and Information (802)388-7545 ext. 236 > Systems Manager FAX:(802)388-3697 > Computer Alternatives, Inc. http://www.computeralt.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 12:28:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay.veriguard.com (relay.securify.com [207.5.63.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DD115212 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:28:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tomb@securify.com) Received: by relay.veriguard.com; id MAA16366; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown(10.5.63.6) by relay.veriguard.com via smap (4.1) id xma016353; Thu, 22 Jul 99 12:28:18 -0700 Received: from securify.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dude.veriguard.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23716 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:28:17 -0700 Message-ID: <379770D0.7008B005@securify.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:28:16 -0700 From: Tom Brown X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.35 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: [Arcicle] FreeBSD the momentium is building! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This very positive arcicle was passing throught he airwaves earlier.... http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 13:18: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E875414EDF for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id FAA01265; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:15:19 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37977BC7.AB9DEEC4@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:15:03 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: the stealth OS? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > ...the BSD community is just about reaching the size to be noted > by the popular computing press, at least in the USA, and that what > little they know of us is good. We must strive to keep this positive > viewpoint. Yeah... at least in the USA... In Japan, on the other hand... it's old news... :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 13:25:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A3D1562E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:25:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jer@jorsm.com) Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA00449; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:25:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:25:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy Shaffner Reply-To: Jeremy Shaffner To: Bob.Sullivan@MSNBC.com, sgd@tfm.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: MSNBC Article Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I was reading the article at http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp and was suprised to see: No matter, says Diercouff. Soon, the various BSD distributions will be able to run Linux applications, including office productivity suites such as StarOffice. Linux emulation has been available for FreeBSD via kernel modules for a good long time. I run many Linux applications, including StarOffice and WordPerfect under Linux emulation on FreeBSD. The second sentence on the OpenBSD homepage says "OpenBSD supports binary emulation of most programs from SVR4 (Solaris), FreeBSD, Linux, BSDI, SunOS, and HPUX." I don't know about NetBSD and BSDI but it wouldn't be hard to find out. A little bit of research goes a long way. And since most software for Linux is open source, it can usually be compiled on most any other system as well. The FreeBSD ports system used by FreeBSD (shared with OpenBSD) currently has 2502 applications (http://www.freebsd.org/ports/master-index.html), many of which are originally Linux programs. I realize this point is a bit more technical than the article, but it matters in the eyes of those who wouldn't know otherwise. Was this a misquote? Did Stephen forget himself? Did Mr. Sullivan just plain get it wrong? Alot of people will read this article and those who would switch, or choose *BSD over Linux as their first Unix system, won't because of this inaccuracy. Is it possible to correct this before further damage is done? Otherwise it was a good article. Thankyou for your time. -=========================================================================- Jeremy Shaffner JORSM Internet, Regional Internet Services System Administrator 7 Area Codes in Chicagoland and NW Indiana jer@jorsm.com 100Mbps+ Connectivity, 56K-DS3, V.90, ISDN support@jorsm.com Quality Service, Affordable Prices http://www.jorsm.com Serving Gov, Biz, Indivds Since 1995 -=========================================================================- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 15:15:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79EE14F29 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:15:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA25287; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA23842; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:12:04 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA26159; Thu, 22 Jul 99 15:12:48 PDT Message-Id: <37979760.A9FBC52C@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:12:48 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/292376.asp > > > > I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems like a pretty nice article. Nice > > work, Wes Peters and Matthew Fuller for the quotes, too. > > > > Kris > > I just about fell out of my chair when I saw this quote, 'Has Linux > has become too mainstream and lost its appeal among "Ubergeeks"?' > > (Note my domain. ) Well, has it? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 15:16: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3F01563B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:16:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA25307; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA23886; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:12:55 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA26218; Thu, 22 Jul 99 15:13:42 PDT Message-Id: <3797978C.5CF455EC@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:13:32 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman Cc: Kris Kennaway , Adrian Filipi-Martin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > They misspelled "daemonnews.com" it should be '.org'. But at least they > got the link to Wes's article right. So, does the MSNBC effect come anywhere close to the SlashDot effect? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 15:58:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1550714BD2 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:58:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-189.s62.as2.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.189]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02187; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:56:12 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Bill Swingle Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Jul-99 Bill Swingle wrote: [stuff deleted about def con] > Just thought I'd share. :) > > -Bill Where those the "FreeBSD: Seperating the Men from the Boys" t-shirts I heard about? Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us poor folk can at least buy them? --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 16: 5:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE27F14C9D for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:05:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 15980 invoked by uid 1001); 22 Jul 1999 23:03:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:03:50 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: John Baldwin Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Message-ID: <19990722160350.A15937@dub.net> References: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com>; from John Baldwin on Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 06:56:12PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 06:56:12PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 22-Jul-99 Bill Swingle wrote: > [stuff deleted about def con] > > > Just thought I'd share. :) > > > > -Bill > > Where those the "FreeBSD: Seperating the Men from the Boys" t-shirts I heard > about? Yep. :) > Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us poor > folk can at least buy them? Nope. They were a limited edition DefCon only item. We might rework the art and do another tshirt with the Daemonatrix on it if the demand warrents it. -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 17:29: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A6E314DAD for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:28:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14429; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:24:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Wes Peters Cc: Kris Kennaway , Adrian Filipi-Martin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-Reply-To: <3797978C.5CF455EC@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So, does the MSNBC effect come anywhere close to the SlashDot effect? Not even close. We got nearly 80,000 hits from the slashdot effect in one day. (combined with the other linux sites that picked up the news). Today, we have gotten about 10,000 hits and about half that is regular. Maybe if ZDNET had picked up the link along with the article we might have gotten a few more. I noticed that they went and edited their article. They fixed the Daemonnews.org address and added another quote by the Red Hat lady explaining their absense at DefCon. (unlesss I missed that earlier). -Chris > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 19: 7:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F00614D2D for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:07:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05483; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Jeremy Shaffner Cc: Bob.Sullivan@MSNBC.com, sgd@tfm.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC Article In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:25:08 CDT." Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:06:53 -0700 Message-ID: <5479.932695613@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There are a few other mistakes in this otherwise interesting article, unfortunately, and I'll take them in order of appearance. It's also a shame that I didn't get the voice mail from MSNBC until the day the article went to press since, with a little more advance notice, I could have helped to prevent many of the following errors: 1. Hotmail is *still* using FreeBSD, not just having begun with it, and now has close to 2000 FreeBSD machines serving up web pages. I believe Solaris machines are used for back-end mail delivery. They're not the only Microsoft-owned company using FreeBSD aggressively either; Link Exchange is another large FreeBSD user. 2. Not all the BSD groups were giving CDs away at DEFCON, only FreeBSD. I believe the OpenBSD group was selling theirs, for example, so it's not quite accurate to use "BSD" as the classifcation in that context. 3. BSD actually only had 2 variants when Linus Torvalds first started with Linux, 386BSD and BSD/OS. The others came along either slightly after this or some years later. 4. Berkeley never funded the 386BSD effort in any way, the "split" coming about because 386BSD stopped making public progress. 5. FreeBSD does more than "optimize BSD for Intel" - we have also gone out of our way to make the system more approachable by the average user, much as companies like Red Hat and Caldera have done for Linux. We also now run on the DEC Alpha architecture and will be tackling the SPARC, PowerPC and ARM architectures in the near future. 6. The comments about Oracle not being interested may be premature; discussions with them are still ongoing and I think it's too early to say that FreeBSD, at least, will remain Oracle-less for the forseeable future. It should also have been noted that FreeBSD is more than capable of running Linux applications, including Oracle, and is how many people currently run applications like StarOffice and Applixware. Applix has also done a native port of their product to FreeBSD and we're currently in test testing phase before bringing it to market. This was otherwise an excellent article and I look forward to working with the author, or with MSNBC, on more material like this in the future should they care to expand their coverage of the BSD world. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 19:20: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B37314D6B for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:19:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05574; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:19:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: John Baldwin Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:56:12 EDT." <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:19:29 -0700 Message-ID: <5570.932696369@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On 22-Jul-99 Bill Swingle wrote: > [stuff deleted about def con] > > > Just thought I'd share. :) > > > > -Bill > > Where those the "FreeBSD: Seperating the Men from the Boys" t-shirts I heard > about? Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us poo r > folk can at least buy them? I'm afraid that was a one-off deal just for DEFCON '99 and they're all gone, never to return. They wouldn't have much cache if just ANYONE could buy them, now would they? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 22 21:17:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0781D15699 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:17:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (207-172-143-78.s15.as1.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.78]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA17105; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907230417.AAA17105@smtp2.erols.com> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5570.932696369@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:17:08 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Bill Swingle , John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-Jul-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >> On 22-Jul-99 Bill Swingle wrote: >> [stuff deleted about def con] >> >> > Just thought I'd share. :) >> > >> > -Bill >> >> Where those the "FreeBSD: Seperating the Men from the Boys" t-shirts I heard >> about? Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us >> poo > r >> folk can at least buy them? > > I'm afraid that was a one-off deal just for DEFCON '99 and they're all > gone, never to return. They wouldn't have much cache if just ANYONE > could buy them, now would they? :-) But they sound like a real cool design and I need more BSD t-shirts darn it!! :) I understand the uniqueness value, but in general maybe could we get some more t-shirt designs and perhaps a bumper stick up on the mall? The bumper sticker at least shouldn't be too hard. That way when I try to get my license plate set to "FREEBSD" people will know what it stands for. > - Jordan --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 1:12:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 472F014D21 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:12:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 21997 invoked by uid 1001); 23 Jul 1999 08:12:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:12:01 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: John Baldwin Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Message-ID: <19990723011201.A21692@dub.net> References: <5570.932696369@zippy.cdrom.com> <199907230417.AAA17105@smtp2.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <199907230417.AAA17105@smtp2.erols.com>; from John Baldwin on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 12:17:08AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 12:17:08AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 23-Jul-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> > >> On 22-Jul-99 Bill Swingle wrote: > >> [stuff deleted about def con] > >> > >> > Just thought I'd share. :) > >> > > >> > -Bill > >> > >> Where those the "FreeBSD: Seperating the Men from the Boys" t-shirts I heard > >> about? Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us > >> poo > > r > >> folk can at least buy them? > > > > I'm afraid that was a one-off deal just for DEFCON '99 and they're all > > gone, never to return. They wouldn't have much cache if just ANYONE > > could buy them, now would they? :-) > > But they sound like a real cool design and I need more BSD t-shirts darn it!! > :) I understand the uniqueness value, but in general maybe could we get some > more t-shirt designs and perhaps a bumper stick up on the mall? The bumper > sticker at least shouldn't be too hard. That way when I try to get my license > plate set to "FREEBSD" people will know what it stands for. Bumper stickers may be very close. Keep yer peepers open fer 'em. :) -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 1:25:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435AD156DE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA03620; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:24:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Bill Swingle Cc: John Baldwin , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: <5570.932696369@zippy.cdrom.com> <199907230417.AAA17105@smtp2.erols.com> <19990723011201.A21692@dub.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Jul 1999 10:24:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bill Swingle's message of "Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:12:01 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Swingle writes: > Bumper stickers may be very close. Keep yer peepers open fer 'em. :) Oh goddie, I'll have to buy a Miata to stick them on then :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 1:51:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DD314C16 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:51:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.79]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAC4A16; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:51:24 +0200 Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09428; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:50:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:50:51 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: the stealth OS? Message-ID: <19990723105051.D9276@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <37977BC7.AB9DEEC4@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.3i In-Reply-To: <37977BC7.AB9DEEC4@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 05:15:03AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Daniel C. Sobral (dcs@newsguy.com) [990723 01:51]: > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > ...the BSD community is just about reaching the size to be noted > > by the popular computing press, at least in the USA, and that what > > little they know of us is good. We must strive to keep this positive > > viewpoint. > > Yeah... at least in the USA... In Japan, on the other hand... it's > old news... :-) And in Europe we're struggling =\ Everyone I, at least in the Netherlands, talk about FreeBSD or other BSD's always ask if it's a Linux distro or something like that... Makes my teeth cringe... Anyways, the Dutch FreeBSD User Group (NLFUG) will rectify this with some articles we will submit to magazines... Which reminds me, anyone already done such a thing? An introductory article that is... 'gards, -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist BSD: Technical excellence at its best Cum angelis et pueris, fideles inveniamur. Quis est iste Rex gloriae...? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 2:43:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7096114FD7 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:43:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 1873 invoked by alias); 23 Jul 1999 09:43:43 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 1841 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jul 1999 09:43:43 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 09:43:43 -0000 Message-ID: <37983946.B758C772@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:43:34 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle Cc: John Baldwin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> <19990722160350.A15937@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Swingle wrote: > On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 06:56:12PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us poor > > folk can at least buy them? > > Nope. They were a limited edition DefCon only item. We might rework the > art and do another tshirt with the Daemonatrix on it if the demand > warrents it. Daemonatrix? Is that what I think it is? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 7:26:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from trltech.demon.co.uk (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B291568E for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:26:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Received: from rdls.sw.wan (rdls.sw.wan [192.9.200.19]) by ns.wan (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA73729; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:02:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Received: from trltech.co.uk (localhost.sw.wan [127.0.0.1]) by rdls.sw.wan (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA06886; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:00:26 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Message-ID: <3798211A.EE514B7E@trltech.co.uk> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:00:26 +0100 From: Richard Smith Reply-To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSNBC Article References: <5479.932695613@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > Applix has also done a native port of their product > to FreeBSD and we're currently in test testing phase before bringing > it to market. Best news I've had this week. Can't wait :) Richard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 9:28:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from info.isinet.com (mail2.isinet.com [199.4.155.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DBAEE15041 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:28:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam.turoff@isinet.com) Received: (qmail 29107 invoked from network); 23 Jul 1999 16:22:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO isinet.com) (aturoff@10.10.10.221) by info.isinet.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 16:22:25 -0000 Message-ID: <37989894.50302617@isinet.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:30:12 -0400 From: Adam Turoff X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC Article References: <5479.932695613@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > 2. Not all the BSD groups were giving CDs away at DEFCON, only FreeBSD. > I believe the OpenBSD group was selling theirs, for example, so it's > not quite accurate to use "BSD" as the classifcation in that context. FWIW, I asked around in the open source OS community for donations for YAPC (yet another Perl conference) last month. I've given away FreeBSD CDs at conferences before, and they tend to be quite well received. I asked the NetBSD project, who never returned my email. I asked the OpenBSD project, and Theo graciously donated 10 copies of OpenBSD 2.5. These were given away as quiz prizes. I asked the Debian Project, and Wichert donated 10 copies left over from the USENIX pressing. These were given away as quiz prizes. I asked Jordan, and the FreeBSD project donated 300 copies of 3.1. :-) These were given away to every attendee, except for the honest ones who said that they had no [interest in] Intel hardware, were already running 3.2, or already had subscriptions. One reason why FreeBSD CDs can be given away is because Jordan makes it so easy. Thanks, Jordan. Evangelizing FreeBSD would be much more difficult without you. -- Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 10:21:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660E014F26 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:21:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3563P25N>; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:19:56 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:19:46 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, dear advocates :-) Don't shoot on me, if it happens that I'm currently developing = applications for Windogz with M$WC 6.0 under NT4 for living! That's the employment = market in the country I'm living in... :-[ Since '94, I was in touch with many Unix flavors: DigitalUNIX, SCO OpenServer, Slackware Linux [starting with 2.0!], RedHat Linux = [starting with 3.0.3!], FreeBSD [starting with 2.0.5] and NetBSD [some 1.0 beta something]. Unfortunately, to earn more money I've had to change the company, and just about everybody wanted C++ with MFC (M$ Foundation Classes, not... what are you thinking of? :--)) Now, when "RedHat Linux" started to become something like "M$ Windoze", = I'm coming back to "old friends", because I was surprised in a very = pleasant way by FreeBSD! Whem I'm trying to explain things like these to my Linux-centric = friends or colleagues, I encounter many problems. Even when talking to = "WinNT-addicted" people, they always say "but compared with Linux...". Now, I'm stressing in my "speeches" the way FreeBSD project is managed, = the pluses of having a single and unitary distribution [keeping your = freedom meantime!] compared with the fact that Linux is theorically only a = kernel, and the various distributions are really different in matters like configuration files, installation procedures, etc. so Linux development = is quite messy and chaotic and "serious" users could not count upon. = Except for the kernel, maybe, but it's hard to define what's the kernel and when = Linux really became an OS and where you can know who's responsible for what! = Not to mention the confuse and accelerated way the kernel evoluted since = 2.0.!=20 Now, I'm asking myself what to tell to Linux users that are asking = me... 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command history" with ARROWS, not with "!". 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please = excuse me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen FreeBSD since 30 months ago, I = can't install it now, only Linux boxes are available here and for the moment = I don't own a PC!] 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation = in FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for = the *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and = formats that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... Best regards, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU --- Vive la libert=E9! A bas les chapeaux rouges! --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 10:22:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from id-bucharest.idsrom.com (idsoft-pc.digiro.net [194.102.93.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC77C14F26 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfotescu@idsrom.com) Received: by id-bucharest.idsrom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3563P25Q>; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:22:36 +0300 Message-ID: From: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU To: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: About Linus Torvalds - Chris Donohue (MSNBC) Tue Feb 9 17:37:29 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:22:29 +0300 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [How should we treat the following proof of LACK of fair play from Linus?] > Host Chris_MSNBC says: > Josh Bell: What do you think about the BSD project that is now starting > to get more and more support, do you think it will take Linux's hype away, > once more and more people learn about the free distributions of BSD? > > Host Linus_Torvalds- says: > I actually think that they have been going away instead of actually making > a comeback. And I think they were interesting projects. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 10:54:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.141.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F4E14C10 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12447; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:03:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: dragon.ham.muohio.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:03:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Howard X-Sender: howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command > history" with ARROWS, not with "!". Because csh has been the traditional shell of BSD systems as long as I have been alive. It might be neat to see a bash-clone with a BSD license available in the system just to get the "FreeBSD is so old, it doesn't even have BASH!!" to shut up. Thoughts? > 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please excuse > me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen FreeBSD since 30 months ago, I can't > install it now, only Linux boxes are available here and for the moment I > don't own a PC!] There was a thread on misc@openbsd.org where some troll claimed that OpenBSD was so old, it didn't even have color-ls. I laughed at that for a week. As someone who does not need or use color-ls, I do not view this as an issue, I would like to see other's thoughts. > 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation in > FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. There are a lot of stories that Linux binaries in fact run faster on FreeBSD than they do under Linux. > 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the > *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? There isn't much of a need for it. The ports tree is there on every system (unless you don't install it). Any application from bash, to color-ls, to WordPerfect, to Apache, to Netscape is there. If you are looking for more information on FreeBSD offerings, a good source would be www.freebsdmall.com. Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11: 6:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from waveconcepts.com (waveconcepts.com [207.126.116.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00BFD14CA9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from siberian@siberian.org) Received: from [216.112.76.84] (gamera.siberian.org [216.112.76.84] (may be forged)) by waveconcepts.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA14150 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: siberian@207.126.116.40 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:09:31 -0700 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: John Armstrong Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Because csh has been the traditional shell of BSD systems as long as I >have been alive. It might be neat to see a bash-clone with a BSD license >available in the system just to get the "FreeBSD is so old, it doesn't >even have BASH!!" to shut up. Thoughts? ..and you can always install bash from the ports collection and then make it your 'default' shell in the adduser template. Just make sure root always has a base sh shell for emergencies and your set. All of my users default to tcsh. Thats a short term fix anyhow. >There was a thread on misc@openbsd.org where some troll claimed that >OpenBSD was so old, it didn't even have color-ls. I laughed at that for a >week. As someone who does not need or use color-ls, I do not view this as >an issue, I would like to see other's thoughts. I agree. color ls is totally lame and I think you can get it running on freebsd but..why? I guess I must be the old one, not the OS... To each their own, but in my opinion a new install should never default to 'bells and whistles' mode as it assumes to much on the part of the end user hardware configs. > > > 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the > > *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? > Also check http://www.freebsdrocks.com/ <-- fairly ok coverage http://ww.freshmeat.net/ <-- mostly linux but many apps have free bsd versions OR run under emu. The ports collection is totally awesome, I rarely need to venture out of it. Almost all normal open source stuff compiles and runs great under FreeBSD. John- -------------------------------------------------------------------- The three great virtues of a programmer are Laziness, Impatience and Hubris. - Larry Wall , Programming Perl - 2nd Edition To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11:10:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82E214BF9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA05288; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA20952; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:08:22 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA22469; Fri, 23 Jul 99 11:09:18 PDT Message-Id: <3798AFD1.C4485BC2@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:09:21 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: About Linus Torvalds - Chris Donohue (MSNBC) Tue Feb 9 17:37:29 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > [How should we treat the following proof of LACK of fair play from > Linus?] > > > Host Chris_MSNBC says: > > Josh Bell: What do you think about the BSD project that is now starting > > to get more and more support, do you think it will take Linux's hype away, > > once more and more people learn about the free distributions of BSD? > > > > Host Linus_Torvalds- says: > > I actually think that they have been going away instead of actually making > > a comeback. And I think they were interesting projects. Ignore it. As we are breaking into the popular press, the reporters are simultaneously tiring of the thousands of angry tirades they receive in email EVERY TIME they mention Linux, even when they mention it in a positive light. Anytime you see BSD mentioned in ANY publication, if you feel you must respond, be polite and thank the author for mentioning BSD. If you wish to correct, make your point politely, offer resources where the author can find more info, and thank the author again. And don't disparage other systems. In fact, ignore them. Point out the positive aspects of BSD performance and/or your experience with it and move on. Don't trash the GPL, just point out how positive AND widespread the BSDL is -- sendmail, BIND, ISC products, ingres & postgres, gated, etc. Remember, the best revenge is ALWAYS to just live better. I think WE have a far better chance of not being ruined by the media attention than the Linux camp; they've attracted a glut of me-toos and clueless marketroids and the backlash is just beginning. Avoiding rants and continuing to develop our system as best we can is the very best path we can take at this moment. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11:11:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE3914BF9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:11:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id OAA15187; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma014729; Fri, 23 Jul 99 14:09:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:09:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-reply-to: To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My comments inline. On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > Now, I'm asking myself what to tell to Linux users that are asking me... > > 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command > history" with ARROWS, not with "!". It's not hard to install the latest bash from the ports collection: /usr/ports/shells/bash2. I heard somewhere that the reason csh is the default is because csh was the default shell in the early BSD's, and that it's still there out of [respect|tradition]. Once users are familiar with ports and chsh, changing shells is a no-brainer. > 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please excuse > me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen FreeBSD since 30 months ago, I can't > install it now, only Linux boxes are available here and for the moment I > don't own a PC!] /usr/ports/misc/colorls will "colorize" ls output. So will /usr/ports/misc/gnuls. > 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation in > FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. People have claimed that in some cases, running linux apps under emulation actually gives *better* performance than in a native linux environment. I've never benchmarked any of this personally, but the reference is out there somewhere. > 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the > *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? Because the application list is already on any modern FreeBSD system if you've installed the ports collection. Ports is one of the FreeBSD's greatest strengths. It's searchable ("cd /usr/ports; make search key=foo"), the indices are HTML-ified on freebsd.org/ports, and they take up very little space on a system, requiring only skeleton directory structures. There's no need for a "linuxapps" equivalent. If you can find the source to a given application, you can probably get it to build on a FreeBSD box with little or no modification. Search Yahoo, Freshmeat, or your apps-engine of choice if the application you want isn't already in the ports collection. > > Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and formats > that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... > Have you checked http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ammunition/images.html? SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11:12:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6693714BF9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:12:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jer@jorsm.com) Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA29322; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:12:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:12:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy Shaffner To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here's my take.... On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > Now, I'm asking myself what to tell to Linux users that are asking me... > > 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command > history" with ARROWS, not with "!". Installing bash is a "make; make install" away. Less even if you install it as a package via sysinstall. You have the option of installing additional packages during installation. > 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please excuse > me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen FreeBSD since 30 months ago, I can't > install it now, only Linux boxes are available here and for the moment I > don't own a PC!] Exact same reason as above. Like you said, Linux is just a kernel. It doesn't "come" with any apps. The various distributions just include a precompiled bash for you. > 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation in > FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. I can't say. > 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the > *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? Because Linux users, app authors, and site hosters don't realize that Linux isn't the only Unix system out there. Not *really*. Most any program you can get at those sites compiles cleanly on FreeBSD, and if they don't, they can with minor modification (Which has probably already been done by someone and made into a Port.) And if they still can't, you run a binary under Linux emulation. The average Linux user is as un/misinformed about Unix as the average Windows user is about DOS. They think XFree86 is a Linux program. They think GNOME is a Linux program. They think SAMBA is a Linux program. They think xmms (formerlly x11amp) is a Linux program. Etc... Don't you realize what having source code means? Why do you think C was written to begin with? Can you say portability? Sure..someone could start http://www.freebsdapps.com, but what would that accomplish? You'd have the same software, and you would only be furthering the myth that "Linux software" is only for Linux, and "FreeBSD software" is only for FreeBSD. > Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and formats > that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... You're right, I'll switch my servers over to Linux right away. -Jeremy P.s. There's Linux wallpaper? -=========================================================================- Jeremy Shaffner JORSM Internet, Regional Internet Services System Administrator 7 Area Codes in Chicagoland and NW Indiana jer@jorsm.com 100Mbps+ Connectivity, 56K-DS3, V.90, ISDN support@jorsm.com Quality Service, Affordable Prices http://www.jorsm.com Serving Gov, Biz, Indivds Since 1995 -=========================================================================- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11:17:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACED314CAE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:17:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jer@jorsm.com) Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA29857; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:16:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:16:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy Shaffner To: Jamie Howard Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Jamie Howard wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > > 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation in > > FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. > > There are a lot of stories that Linux binaries in fact run faster on > FreeBSD than they do under Linux. I almost forgot! The Matrix was done on FreeBSD with a Linux binary because it performed better. Anyone got the press release? -=========================================================================- Jeremy Shaffner JORSM Internet, Regional Internet Services System Administrator 7 Area Codes in Chicagoland and NW Indiana jer@jorsm.com 100Mbps+ Connectivity, 56K-DS3, V.90, ISDN support@jorsm.com Quality Service, Affordable Prices http://www.jorsm.com Serving Gov, Biz, Indivds Since 1995 -=========================================================================- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11:17:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68DF1539D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:17:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20860; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:13:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Wes Peters Cc: Chris Coleman , Kris Kennaway , Adrian Filipi-Martin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-Reply-To: <3797978C.5CF455EC@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Wes On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > So, does the MSNBC effect come anywhere close to the SlashDot effect? No. :-) MS-NBC referred hits total ~ 650, Slashdot, this month, has around 20k. :-) Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11:27: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D91D14DCF for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (root@rac4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.144]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01265; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA19282; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19273; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:25:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac4.wam.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:25:08 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard To: Jeremy Shaffner Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Jeremy Shaffner wrote: > I almost forgot! The Matrix was done on FreeBSD with a Linux binary > because it performed better. Anyone got the press release? http://www.freebsd.org/news/press-rel-1.html Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11:34:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD1B14F6D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA05706; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA21950; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:31:23 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA23791; Fri, 23 Jul 99 11:32:16 PDT Message-Id: <3798B52F.E432AAFF@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:32:15 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Jeremy Shaffner , sgd@tfm.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC Article References: <5479.932695613@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > There are a few other mistakes in this otherwise interesting article, > unfortunately, and I'll take them in order of appearance. It's also a > shame that I didn't get the voice mail from MSNBC until the day the > article went to press since, with a little more advance notice, I > could have helped to prevent many of the following errors: > > [...] > > This was otherwise an excellent article and I look forward to working > with the author, or with MSNBC, on more material like this in the > future should they care to expand their coverage of the BSD world. Well said, Jordan. Thank you. I was pleased that Bob at least managed to quote me correctly, and in context. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 11:35:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07E81568D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:35:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA05726; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA22014; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:32:51 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA23877; Fri, 23 Jul 99 11:33:47 PDT Message-Id: <3798B58B.3EC2DD16@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:33:47 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: Bill Swingle , John Baldwin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> <19990722160350.A15937@dub.net> <37983946.B758C772@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Summoner wrote: > > Bill Swingle wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 06:56:12PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us poor > > > folk can at least buy them? > > > > Nope. They were a limited edition DefCon only item. We might rework the > > art and do another tshirt with the Daemonatrix on it if the demand > > warrents it. > > Daemonatrix? Is that what I think it is? Probably. Picture Darcy in leather. Pant pant. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 12:43:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F16156A6 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:43:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id MAA06645; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id MAA24706; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:42:34 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn2.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA27409; Fri, 23 Jul 99 12:43:30 PDT Message-Id: <3798C5E1.EFF3026@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:43:29 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > Hi, dear advocates :-) > > Don't shoot on me, if it happens that I'm currently developing applications > for Windogz with M$WC 6.0 under NT4 for living! That's the employment market > in the country I'm living in... :-[ > > Since '94, I was in touch with many Unix flavors: DigitalUNIX, SCO > OpenServer, Slackware Linux [starting with 2.0!], RedHat Linux [starting > with 3.0.3!], FreeBSD [starting with 2.0.5] and NetBSD [some 1.0 beta > something]. Unfortunately, to earn more money I've had to change the > company, and just about everybody wanted C++ with MFC (M$ Foundation > Classes, not... what are you thinking of? :--)) > > Now, when "RedHat Linux" started to become something like "M$ Windoze", I'm > coming back to "old friends", because I was surprised in a very pleasant way > by FreeBSD! > > Whem I'm trying to explain things like these to my Linux-centric friends or > colleagues, I encounter many problems. Even when talking to "WinNT-addicted" > people, they always say "but compared with Linux...". > > Now, I'm stressing in my "speeches" the way FreeBSD project is managed, the > pluses of having a single and unitary distribution [keeping your freedom > meantime!] compared with the fact that Linux is theorically only a kernel, > and the various distributions are really different in matters like > configuration files, installation procedures, etc. so Linux development is > quite messy and chaotic and "serious" users could not count upon. Except for > the kernel, maybe, but it's hard to define what's the kernel and when Linux > really became an OS and where you can know who's responsible for what! Not > to mention the confuse and accelerated way the kernel evoluted since 2.0.! > > Now, I'm asking myself what to tell to Linux users that are asking me... > > 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command > history" with ARROWS, not with "!". Install it from the package: pkg_add /cdrom/packages/shells/bash2* > 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please excuse > me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen FreeBSD since 30 months ago, I can't > install it now, only Linux boxes are available here and for the moment I > don't own a PC!] Install it from the package: pgk_add /cdrom/packages/All/colorls* > 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation in > FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. Pretty close to NONE. It's not really an emulation, it's what Microsoft would refer to as a "thunk." It's not like we have a virtual x86 running Linux, all we do is rearrange the Linux syscall and parameters into equivalent FreeBSD syscall and parameters and forward the syscall. (For the most part; there are some Linux syscalls that require more work.) > 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the > *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? Uh, perhaps we need to make the commercial software page at http://www.freebsd.org/commercial/software_bycat.html a little more obvious? You seem to have missed it. > Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and formats > that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... Install WindowMaker from the package; it comes with a great background in the FreeBSD theme. There are others on the web site, but they probably need to be collected into a nice web page that's easy to find. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://softweyr.com/ wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 13: 7:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C819814C2D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:07:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jer@jorsm.com) Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA14169; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:07:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:07:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy Shaffner To: Wes Peters Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: <3798C5E1.EFF3026@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oooohh. That kind of wallpaper. -Jeremy On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > > > Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and formats > > that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... > > Install WindowMaker from the package; it comes with a great background in > the FreeBSD theme. There are others on the web site, but they probably need > to be collected into a nice web page that's easy to find. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 14:36: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E9B9156F9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:35:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 27020 invoked by alias); 23 Jul 1999 21:35:35 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 26992 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jul 1999 21:35:34 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 21:35:34 -0000 Message-ID: <3798E025.BA455A58@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:35:33 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: Bill Swingle , John Baldwin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> <19990722160350.A15937@dub.net> <37983946.B758C772@uswest.net> <3798B58B.3EC2DD16@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > Summoner wrote: > > > > Bill Swingle wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 06:56:12PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us poor > > > > folk can at least buy them? > > > > > > Nope. They were a limited edition DefCon only item. We might rework the > > > art and do another tshirt with the Daemonatrix on it if the demand > > > warrents it. > > > > Daemonatrix? Is that what I think it is? > > Probably. Picture Darcy in leather. Pant pant. ;^) Is there a website or anything sport this visage? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 14:59:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 56C4A14F7C for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:59:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 66512 invoked by uid 1001); 23 Jul 1999 21:58:44 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:58:44 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: Summoner Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Message-ID: <19990723145844.A66437@dub.net> References: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> <19990722160350.A15937@dub.net> <37983946.B758C772@uswest.net> <3798B58B.3EC2DD16@softweyr.com> <3798E025.BA455A58@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <3798E025.BA455A58@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 02:35:33PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 02:35:33PM -0700, Summoner wrote: > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > Summoner wrote: > > > > > > Bill Swingle wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 06:56:12PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > > Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us poor > > > > > folk can at least buy them? > > > > > > > > Nope. They were a limited edition DefCon only item. We might rework the > > > > art and do another tshirt with the Daemonatrix on it if the demand > > > > warrents it. > > > > > > Daemonatrix? Is that what I think it is? > > > > Probably. Picture Darcy in leather. Pant pant. ;^) > > Is there a website or anything sport this visage? http://www.dub.net/~unfurl/gfx/defcon3.jpg -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 15:29:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from norn.ca.eu.org (cr965240-b.abtsfd1.bc.wave.home.com [24.113.19.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A830156EF for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cpiazza@norn.ca.eu.org) Received: by norn.ca.eu.org (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 9CDF372F; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:26:53 -0700 From: Chris Piazza To: Summoner Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Swingle , John Baldwin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system Message-ID: <19990724152653.A56530@norn.ca.eu.org> References: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> <19990722160350.A15937@dub.net> <37983946.B758C772@uswest.net> <3798B58B.3EC2DD16@softweyr.com> <3798E025.BA455A58@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <3798E025.BA455A58@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 02:35:33PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 02:35:33PM -0700, Summoner wrote: > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > Summoner wrote: > > > > > > > > > Daemonatrix? Is that what I think it is? > > > > Probably. Picture Darcy in leather. Pant pant. ;^) > > Is there a website or anything sport this visage? Sure, http://www.intrastar.net/~karen/daemon/ -Chris -- cpiazza@home.net cpiazza@FreeBSD.org "I don't like principles. I prefer prejudices." -Oscar Wilde To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 18:13: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 27D3714F1E for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:12:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 29015 invoked by alias); 24 Jul 1999 01:10:24 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 29000 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 1999 01:10:23 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 1999 01:10:23 -0000 Message-ID: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:10:16 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Armstrong Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Armstrong wrote: > Just make sure > root always has a base sh shell for emergencies and your set. Excuse my newbieness, but why should I have sh for root? So that if when screw over my installation again I still have a shell for single user mode and (hopefully) fix things? Or does base shell mean something else? My US$.019: I grew up on Bourne-style shells, I'm used to interactive command-line editting. So it was key for my learning FreeBSD to use bash. I don't need colour, never did. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 18:19:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from waveconcepts.com (waveconcepts.com [207.126.116.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E0D14F1E for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from siberian@siberian.org) Received: from [216.112.76.84] (gamera.siberian.org [216.112.76.84] (may be forged)) by waveconcepts.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA17743; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: siberian@207.126.116.40 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:18:34 -0700 To: Summoner From: John Armstrong Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well here was the problem I had. I upgraded from freebsd 2.2.8 to 3.0. That means I went from a.out to an elf based kernel which means that it upgraded all my stock freebsd binaries. Well, it did _not_ upgrade my tcsh binary since its a port. When I tried to login in as root at console it could not launch the shell since it was a.out and not elf. This means I was locked out of the machine! I forgot how I solved the issue but it was a pain in the neck. Since then, I have learned that it is much easier to leave root at 'sh' and, when I login in as root, typing 'exec tcsh'. Sure, its an extra command line but I feel good about it. I can't live without my tcsh :) Moral of the story, if something goes wrong with your root login shell your in a little trouble and much less is likely to happen to sh then to tcsh or bash or any other port shell. John- At 6:10 PM -0700 7/23/99, Summoner wrote: >John Armstrong wrote: > > Just make sure > > root always has a base sh shell for emergencies and your set. > >Excuse my newbieness, but why should I have sh for root? So that if >when screw over my installation again I still have a shell for single >user mode and (hopefully) fix things? Or does base shell mean >something else? > >My US$.019: I grew up on Bourne-style shells, I'm used to interactive >command-line editting. So it was key for my learning FreeBSD to use >bash. I don't need colour, never did. ----------------------------------------------------------- "The term "daemons" is a Judeo-Christian pejorative. Such processes will now be known as "spiritual guides". " -Political Correct UNIX Page ( http://www.baltimoremd.com/technology/newunix.html ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 18:20:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 43F7B14F1E for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 3868 invoked by alias); 24 Jul 1999 01:20:22 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 3858 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 1999 01:20:22 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 1999 01:20:22 -0000 Message-ID: <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:20:21 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Armstrong Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Armstrong wrote: > Moral of the story, if something goes wrong with your root login > shell your in a little trouble and much less is likely to happen to > sh then to tcsh or bash or any other port shell. Why would sh be less likely to get screwed up? Because it's hardly ever used? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 18:25: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DC6914F1E for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:25:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA06790; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:52:03 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA42385; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:52:01 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:52:01 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Summoner Cc: John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990724105201.I84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 06:10:16PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 23 July 1999 at 18:10:16 -0700, Summoner wrote: > John Armstrong wrote: >> Just make sure >> root always has a base sh shell for emergencies and your set. > > Excuse my newbieness, but why should I have sh for root? So that if > when screw over my installation again I still have a shell for single > user mode and (hopefully) fix things? Or does base shell mean > something else? The canonical answer is "sh is statically linked, so it doesn't need the dynamic libraries in /usr/lib, and can thus run in single user mode". The problem with this answer is that when you boot in single-user mode, the system prompts you for your shell (and defaults to /bin/sh, whatever your root shell is). The fact is, there is no longer any good reason. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 18:25:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954BC15665 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:25:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA06794; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:54:05 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA42423; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:54:04 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:54:04 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Summoner Cc: John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990724105404.J84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 06:20:21PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 23 July 1999 at 18:20:21 -0700, Summoner wrote: > John Armstrong wrote: >> Moral of the story, if something goes wrong with your root login >> shell your in a little trouble and much less is likely to happen to >> sh then to tcsh or bash or any other port shell. > > Why would sh be less likely to get screwed up? Because it's hardly > ever used? Because it's statically linked. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 18:26:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3D115665 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:26:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA06810; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:56:38 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA42458; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:56:38 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:56:37 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Armstrong Cc: Summoner , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990724105637.K84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from John Armstrong on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 06:18:34PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 23 July 1999 at 18:18:34 -0700, John Armstrong wrote: > At 6:10 PM -0700 7/23/99, Summoner wrote: >> John Armstrong wrote: >>> Just make sure >>> root always has a base sh shell for emergencies and your set. >> >> Excuse my newbieness, but why should I have sh for root? So that if >> when screw over my installation again I still have a shell for single >> user mode and (hopefully) fix things? Or does base shell mean >> something else? >> >> My US$.019: I grew up on Bourne-style shells, I'm used to interactive >> command-line editting. So it was key for my learning FreeBSD to use >> bash. I don't need colour, never did. > > Well here was the problem I had. > > I upgraded from freebsd 2.2.8 to 3.0. That means I went from a.out to > an elf based kernel which means that it upgraded all my stock freebsd > binaries. Well, it did _not_ upgrade my tcsh binary since its a port. > When I tried to login in as root at console it could not launch the > shell since it was a.out and not elf. It looks as if you didn't set your ldconfig paths for a.out. It's easy to miss. > This means I was locked out of the machine! You could still have gone single user. > "The term "daemons" is a Judeo-Christian pejorative. > Such processes will now be known as "spiritual guides". " > -Political Correct UNIX Page > ( http://www.baltimoremd.com/technology/newunix.html ) Well, no, they miss the point. It's Greek. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 18:31:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BAAF614DCA for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:31:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 10050 invoked by alias); 24 Jul 1999 01:30:49 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 10034 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 1999 01:30:48 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 1999 01:30:48 -0000 Message-ID: <37991744.B8C855A8@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:30:44 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> <19990724105404.J84734@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 23 July 1999 at 18:20:21 -0700, Summoner wrote: >> John Armstrong wrote: >>> Moral of the story, if something goes wrong with your root login >>> shell your in a little trouble and much less is likely to happen to >>> sh then to tcsh or bash or any other port shell. >> >> Why would sh be less likely to get screwed up? Because it's hardly >> ever used? > > Because it's statically linked. Ah. Thanks for the explainations John and Greg. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 19:40:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D53114ECD for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA73351; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:37:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Adam Turoff Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC Article In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:30:12 EDT." <37989894.50302617@isinet.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:37:19 -0700 Message-ID: <73347.932783839@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > One reason why FreeBSD CDs can be given away is because Jordan makes > it so easy. > > Thanks, Jordan. Evangelizing FreeBSD would be much more difficult > without you. You're entirely welcome, and at the risk of turning this into a mutual love-fest let me also say that it's people like you who make these give-aways so effective, without which there would be little point (and only cost) in giving them away at all. Anyone else organizing such an event and wishing for similar arrangements should always feel free to contact me. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 20:30:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8406614FB5 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA73452; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:30:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:19:46 +0300." Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:30:07 -0700 Message-ID: <73448.932787007@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command > history" with ARROWS, not with "!". Because FreeBSD makes it so easy to add your own shell of choice from /usr/ports/shells. Not everyone likes bash, you know, and for everyone saying "bash should be the default!" there's someone else going "NO! Tcsh as the default or death!" or "zsh is the One True Shell you heathens! Bash sucks!" It's better to just not get involved in that holy war and let people add whichever shell they want. > 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please excuse Again, some people think that a colorized ls is the worst idea since the two-digit year field and others love it. For such people, we have not one but TWO color ls packages in /usr/ports. > 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation in > FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. No performance loss. In fact, I don't refer to it as "emulation" for just that reason (the image it connotes) - I prefer to say "Linux compatibility" as a more accurate description > 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the > *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? Because there's already a http://www.freebsd.org/ports :-) > Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and formats > that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... Actually, there are lots and lots of them. Check out advocacy.freebsd.org sometime. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 20:35:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D23014FB5 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA73472; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:32:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: "'freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: About Linus Torvalds - Chris Donohue (MSNBC) Tue Feb 9 17:37:29 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:22:29 +0300." Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:32:41 -0700 Message-ID: <73468.932787161@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ignore it. You can only get muddy by playing in the same mud puddle and I don't think that slamming Linux back is the way to gain converts. Let Linus say all he likes about "BSD going away" and we'll continue to convert Linux people to FreeBSD at a significant rate, just as we always have. Maybe he'll wake up someday to find that our "dead" project has converted the majority of his former adherents. :-) - Jordan > > [How should we treat the following proof of LACK of fair play from > Linus?] > > > Host Chris_MSNBC says: > > Josh Bell: What do you think about the BSD project that is now starting > > to get more and more support, do you think it will take Linux's hype away, > > once more and more people learn about the free distributions of BSD? > > > > Host Linus_Torvalds- says: > > I actually think that they have been going away instead of actually making > > a comeback. And I think they were interesting projects. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 20:42: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B83015060 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA07222; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:10:18 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA43149; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:10:17 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:10:17 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-ID: <19990724131017.O84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <73448.932787007@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <73448.932787007@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 08:30:07PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 23 July 1999 at 20:30:07 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command >> history" with ARROWS, not with "!". > > Because FreeBSD makes it so easy to add your own shell of choice from > /usr/ports/shells. Not everyone likes bash, you know, and for > everyone saying "bash should be the default!" there's someone else > going "NO! Tcsh as the default or death!" or "zsh is the One True > Shell you heathens! Bash sucks!" > > It's better to just not get involved in that holy war and let people > add whichever shell they want. Well, I made a suggestion to you in private mail a couple of days ago that we should add a post-install config option to do this sort of thing. When are you going to reply? >> 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please excuse > > Again, some people think that a colorized ls is the worst idea since > the two-digit year field and others love it. For such people, we have > not one but TWO color ls packages in /usr/ports. But we don't tell newcomers how to get it. This is one of the items I mentioned in my mail message. And yes, I agree with you, colour ls looks terrible. >> 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the >> *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? > > Because there's already a http://www.freebsd.org/ports :-) That's inadequate for people coming from Linux. We know roughly what they want; why not take the needles out of the haystack? For the rest of you: in my message to Jordan, I specifically mentioned bash and colorls. What other items might interest a Linuxhead? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 23 20:42:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C29615607 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:42:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA07233; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:11:40 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA43251; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:11:39 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:11:39 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: About Linus Torvalds - Chris Donohue (MSNBC) Tue Feb 9 17:37:29 Message-ID: <19990724131139.P84734@freebie.lemis.com> References: <73468.932787161@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <73468.932787161@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 08:32:41PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 23 July 1999 at 20:32:41 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> [How should we treat the following proof of LACK of fair play from >> Linus?] >> >>> Host Chris_MSNBC says: >>> Josh Bell: What do you think about the BSD project that is now starting >>> to get more and more support, do you think it will take Linux's hype away, >>> once more and more people learn about the free distributions of BSD? >>> >>> Host Linus_Torvalds- says: >>> I actually think that they have been going away instead of actually making >>> a comeback. And I think they were interesting projects. > > Ignore it. You can only get muddy by playing in the same mud puddle > and I don't think that slamming Linux back is the way to gain > converts. Let Linus say all he likes about "BSD going away" and we'll > continue to convert Linux people to FreeBSD at a significant rate, > just as we always have. Maybe he'll wake up someday to find that our > "dead" project has converted the majority of his former adherents. :-) In fact, I think Linus meant it seriously when he said that. On the whole, he's not given to inflammatory statements. I think this shows more of his perspective rather than any fervent hope. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 0:20: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D9B914E0B for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:20:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from youlgok@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip129-37-169-234.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.169.234]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA130164 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 07:20:02 GMT From: youlgok@ibm.net Message-ID: <379969E5.8766F7F0@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:23:17 -0400 Reply-To: youlgok@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Advocacy Subject: SGI's new Linux server... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C39644%2C00.html?dd.ne.htmldisp.hl.ne I have just read this news article that SGI plans to introduce Intel-based Linux running new system in coming August. Is there any chance to use FreeBSD on SGI's new system? I just wonder... Ps. It seems ispell has entries of 'Free BSD' and 'Free-BSD' but 'FreeBSD' in the dictionary. -youlgok To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 6:21:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01C614F75 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 06:21:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:20:55 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VD409; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:20:55 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 1181jJ-000El0-00; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:20:45 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:20:45 +0100 To: Summoner Cc: John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-Id: <19990724142044.A56710@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 06:10:16PM -0700 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 06:10:16PM -0700, Summoner wrote: > John Armstrong wrote: > > Just make sure > > root always has a base sh shell for emergencies and your set. > > Excuse my newbieness, but why should I have sh for root? So you are disinclined to login as root. :-) -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 6:27:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224BD14F75 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 06:27:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:25:34 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk (VOODOO [10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PJ2VDVAB; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:25:34 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 1181no-000ElK-00; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:25:24 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:25:24 +0100 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! Message-Id: <19990724142523.B56710@palmerharvey.co.uk> References: <73448.932787007@zippy.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <73448.932787007@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 08:30:07PM -0700 From: Dominic Mitchell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 08:30:07PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command > > history" with ARROWS, not with "!". > > Because FreeBSD makes it so easy to add your own shell of choice from > /usr/ports/shells. Not everyone likes bash, you know, and for > everyone saying "bash should be the default!" there's someone else > going "NO! Tcsh as the default or death!" or "zsh is the One True > Shell you heathens! Bash sucks!" Dammit, Jordan, why doesn't FreeBSD arrive with 6th Edition shell preinstalled. All that Bourne stuff is complete and utter bloatware! ;-) (Yes, I know csh is derived from the 6th Edition shell) -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator In Mountain View did Larry Wall Sedately launch a quiet plea: That DOS, the ancient system, shall On boxes pleasureless to all Run Perl though lack they C. -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 7:58:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A352714E43 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 07:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id XAA25159; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:57:23 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3798174C.68F16376@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:18:36 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle Cc: John Baldwin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> <19990722160350.A15937@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Swingle wrote: > > Nope. They were a limited edition DefCon only item. We might rework the > art and do another tshirt with the Daemonatrix on it if the demand > warrents it. Mmmm??? The Daemonatrix??? Is that the same as in the ad.jpg and bitch.jpg? *THAT* t-shirt I would certainly want! -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 8:51:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E6314D53 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:51:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14027; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:48:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > Hi, dear advocates :-) > > Now, I'm asking myself what to tell to Linux users that are asking me... > > 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command > history" with ARROWS, not with "!". Because bash is gpl, Linux distros have no problems using a non-standard, bloated and all out irritating shell for the system shell, whereas FreeBSD deos the right thing and allows you to install zsh from the ports or packages system with absolutely zero problems. cd /usr/ports/shells/zsh ; make install > 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please excuse > me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen FreeBSD since 30 months ago, I can't > install it now, only Linux boxes are available here and for the moment I > don't own a PC!] Because it's not all that useful, other than that, i'm not quite sure, perhaps it lacks other features that the system's ls has. > 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation in > FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. According to some Linux apps actually run _faster_ under FreeBSD's emulation, however I'm not that optimistic and find that it can go either way, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, usually it's just not noticeable. > 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the > *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? Because we have: http://www.freebsd.org/ports/ > Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and formats > that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... I hate to say this, but the kind of questions your friends are asking probably mean they are somewhat incompatible with the FreeBSD mindset, there isn't a question here that is about any real issue (except emulation) they're mostly interested in eye-candy which can be much more easily served up by Windows 98 and some lame screen savers. :) People who are admant that thier unix disto has "color-ls" are a waste of your time as an advocate, they'll never really get it. -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@rush.net|bright@wintelcom.net] systems administrator and programmer Win Telecom - http://www.wintelcom.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 9:12:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37CC4150DB for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:12:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA05685; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:11:12 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3799E58B.43EECE9@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:10:51 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle Cc: Summoner , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system References: <19990722104706.A91438@dub.net> <199907222256.SAA02187@smtp3.erols.com> <19990722160350.A15937@dub.net> <37983946.B758C772@uswest.net> <3798B58B.3EC2DD16@softweyr.com> <3798E025.BA455A58@uswest.net> <19990723145844.A66437@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Swingle wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 23, 1999 at 02:35:33PM -0700, Summoner wrote: > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > > Summoner wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill Swingle wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 06:56:12PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > > > Any chance of getting those on the FreeBSD Mall so the rest of us poor > > > > > > folk can at least buy them? > > > > > > > > > > Nope. They were a limited edition DefCon only item. We might rework the > > > > > art and do another tshirt with the Daemonatrix on it if the demand > > > > > warrents it. > > > > > > > > Daemonatrix? Is that what I think it is? > > > > > > Probably. Picture Darcy in leather. Pant pant. ;^) > > > > Is there a website or anything sport this visage? > > http://www.dub.net/~unfurl/gfx/defcon3.jpg Let me state, for the record, that I hate all of you. Why didn't anyone told me there would be t-shirts featuring her??? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 10:24:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0838B151CB for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA12874; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 02:23:51 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:29:53 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <37991278.5324A70B@uswest.net> <379914D5.6DB65A6C@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Summoner wrote: > > John Armstrong wrote: > > Moral of the story, if something goes wrong with your root login > > shell your in a little trouble and much less is likely to happen to > > sh then to tcsh or bash or any other port shell. > > Why would sh be less likely to get screwed up? Because it's hardly > ever used? Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! Either sh or csh, because these are linked static and available on /bin, so they can be used in single-user mode. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 10:24:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F6B151B4 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA12843; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 02:23:35 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3799E8D0.8B141851@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:24:48 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote: > > Now, I'm asking myself what to tell to Linux users that are asking me... Mmmm... lot of answers already, but I'm going to put in my 2 yens anyway. > 1. Why Linux has bash as default and FreeBSD csh? They want "command > history" with ARROWS, not with "!". Because there is no need to bloat the system with a software that: 1) Can be easily installed. 2) Is not a consensus. 3) Has a license with cooties. > 2. Why Linux has "ls-color" by default and FreeBSD doesn't? [please excuse > me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen FreeBSD since 30 months ago, I can't > install it now, only Linux boxes are available here and for the moment I > don't own a PC!] Because there isn't need to bloat the system with a software that: 1) Can be easily installed. 2) Is not a consensus (there are at least two "color" ls available). > 3. What is the performance loss when running Linux apps under emulation in > FreeBSD [assuming no sources are available]. I don't think anyone was ever able to measure that. The difference in performance, one way _and_ another, between the two systems because of their natural differences far exceeds the difference in performance due to emulation. To be able to measure it, we would have to test a emulated application versus the same application compiled with the same options using the same compiler for FreeBSD. And what would be the point in that? The difference in speed of that application, one way _and_ another, between a Linux box and a FreeBSD box is due to the difference in "speed" between the two OS. > 4. Why _nobody_ is making a site like "http://www.linuxapps.com/" for the > *BSD system(s) in order to find easier apps? I haven't checked the site you mentioned, but is it in anyway different from either our ports web page or our FreeBSD resources on freebsdmall? > Even images with the BSD daemon are impossible to find in sizes and formats > that would make them suitable for a wallpaper or something like that... We do have, though, a large collection of splash screens... :-) Perhaps you did not search in the right places? What, anyway, is your definition of "suitable for a wallpaper"? I like full-screen wallpapers, 800x600 (for notebooks) or 1024x768 and over for desktops. Other people might prefer images suitable for tiling. What is your taste, exactly? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 10:24:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D001151EE for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:24:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA12905; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 02:24:05 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3799EB41.D54E10C8@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:35:13 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremy Shaffner Cc: Jamie Howard , Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeremy Shaffner wrote: > > I almost forgot! The Matrix was done on FreeBSD with a Linux binary > because it performed better. Anyone got the press release? This was *NEVER* stated as reason. It was stated that they doubted they could have had the servers up and running in less time with any other operating system. Alas, since they were used to FreeBSD and not to Linux, that comes as no surprise, don't you think? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 11: 8:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.junknet.com (cx186268-a.msnv1.occa.home.com [24.5.150.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE15E14DED for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:08:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kehlet@techfuel.com) Received: from nepenthe.junknet.com (nepenthe.junknet.com [10.254.14.4]) by sumatra.junknet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA94305 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (kehlet@localhost) by nepenthe.junknet.com (8.9.2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24717 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:10:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kehlet@techfuel.com) X-Authentication-Warning: nepenthe.junknet.com: kehlet owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:10:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Kehlet X-Sender: kehlet@nepenthe.junknet.com To: FreeBSD-Advocacy Subject: Re: SGI's new Linux server... In-Reply-To: <379969E5.8766F7F0@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I can add something to this discussion. They've claimed the architecture of their initial Linux boxes should be more or less industry standard so yes, I would think FreeBSD (or anything else) should run on them too (not that you'd want to pay the extra charge for bundling Linux with it). This is unlike their 320s (and others?) which have an improved PC memory architecture and require a special NT kernel, and would no doubt require some Linux/BSD kernel changes for it to work. We had a guy from SGI at our company talking about these new Linux boxes, and I asked if they were considering looking at BSD at all (with the usual mention of some of the merits of BSD vs. GPL licensing). He brushed me off immediately with a "No, we're not at all interested in looking at BSD." More evidence, methinks, that this is just as much a popularity contest for a flailing company as a technical one ;-). Steve On Sat, 24 Jul 1999 youlgok@ibm.net wrote: > Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:23:17 -0400 > From: youlgok@ibm.net > To: FreeBSD-Advocacy > Subject: SGI's new Linux server... > > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C39644%2C00.html?dd.ne.htmldisp.hl.ne > > I have just read this news article that SGI plans to introduce > Intel-based > Linux running new system in coming August. Is there any chance to use > FreeBSD on SGI's new system? I just wonder... > > Ps. It seems ispell has entries of 'Free BSD' and 'Free-BSD' but > 'FreeBSD' in the dictionary. > > > -youlgok > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 11:14:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7DB814BC9 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:14:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id DAA16221; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 03:12:21 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379A01EE.75D7A50D@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 03:11:58 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steven Kehlet Cc: FreeBSD-Advocacy Subject: Re: SGI's new Linux server... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steven Kehlet wrote: > > We had a guy from SGI at our company talking about these new Linux > boxes, and I asked if they were considering looking at BSD at all (with > the usual mention of some of the merits of BSD vs. GPL licensing). He > brushed me off immediately with a "No, we're not at all interested in > looking at BSD." More evidence, methinks, that this is just as much a > popularity contest for a flailing company as a technical one ;-). "I just wished all these people asking about a BSD version would just shut up. Can't they understand that there is simply no market for it?" ;-> -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 12:42:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cis.ohio-state.edu (mail.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.115.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64CA14BDD for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:42:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cmcurtin@cis.ohio-state.edu) Received: from gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (cmcurtin@gold.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.112.16]) by cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA03129; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA18009; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:41:26 -0400 (EDT) To: youlgok@ibm.net Cc: FreeBSD-Advocacy Subject: ispell weirdness (was Re: SGI's new Linux server...) References: <379969E5.8766F7F0@ibm.net> X-Face: L"IcL.b%SDN]0Kql2b`e.}+i05V9fi\yX#H1+Xl)3!+n/3?5`%-SA-HDgPk9uTk<3dv^J5DCgal)-E{`zN#*o6F|y>r)\< Date: 24 Jul 1999 15:41:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: youlgok@ibm.net's message of "Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:23:17 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 21.1 - "20 Minutes to Nikko" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:23:17 -0400, youlgok@ibm.net said: youlgok> Ps. It seems ispell has entries of 'Free BSD' and 'Free-BSD' youlgok> but 'FreeBSD' in the dictionary. The dictionary probably recognizes both "Free" and "BSD", but not "FreeBSD". When that happens, it will offer suggestions to break the word into the two words it does know either by a space or hyphen. -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 20:18:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wenet.net (pm3-2.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86AF114EAF for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 20:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by wenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA03702; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 20:17:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 20:17:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Jeremy Shaffner Cc: Radu-Cristian FOTESCU , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Jeremy Shaffner wrote: > Installing bash is a "make; make install" away. Less even if you install > it as a package via sysinstall. You have the option of installing > additional packages during installation. That could be shortened to: cd /usr/ports/shells/bash2 && make install clean :) P.S. There's Tux everything.. - alex You wear guilt, like shackles on your feet, Like a halo in reverse - Depeche Mode To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 22: 2:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wenet.net (pm3-23.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5577214BFF for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:02:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by wenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA03798; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 21:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 21:59:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Matt Curtin Cc: youlgok@ibm.net, FreeBSD-Advocacy Subject: Re: ispell weirdness (was Re: SGI's new Linux server...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24 Jul 1999, Matt Curtin wrote: > youlgok> Ps. It seems ispell has entries of 'Free BSD' and 'Free-BSD' > youlgok> but 'FreeBSD' in the dictionary. > > The dictionary probably recognizes both "Free" and "BSD", but not > "FreeBSD". When that happens, it will offer suggestions to break the > word into the two words it does know either by a space or hyphen. IIRC ispell doesn't recognize Linux either by default, however, I bet this could be patched easily enough. - alex You wear guilt, like shackles on your feet, Like a halo in reverse - Depeche Mode To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 22:32: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4674015126 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:31:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA80143; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:30:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Bill Swingle , Summoner , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSNBC: The Net's stealth operating system In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:10:51 +0900." <3799E58B.43EECE9@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:30:52 -0700 Message-ID: <80139.932880652@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Let me state, for the record, that I hate all of you. Why didn't > anyone told me there would be t-shirts featuring her??? Don't sweat it - we're strongly considering bringing her back for another, generally available, T-shirt. :0 -Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 22:54:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC06914DC0 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:54:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA80209 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:54:06 -0700 Message-ID: <80201.932882046.1@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Pointer of interest for FreeBSD writers seeking funding... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" Content-Description: Blind Carbon Copy Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Original Message To: doc@freebsd.oprg Subject: Pointer of interest for FreeBSD writers seeking funding... Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:54:06 -0700 Message-ID: <80201.932882046@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" MIME-Version: 1.0 http://www.thepuffingroup.com/oswg And to further belabor an oft-belabored point, we need more books! :-) - Jordan ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 23: 1:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B3514FE6 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA80247; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:00:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Summoner , John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:29:53 +0900." <3799EA01.4A1E60C@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:00:16 -0700 Message-ID: <80243.932882416@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! You know, there should be some kind of fine levied on those who use more than, say, 7 characters in any acronym. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 24 23:31: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD3F14EE7 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:31:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id PAA02637; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:30:42 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <379AAEFB.78C115B7@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:30:19 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Summoner , John Armstrong , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What to tell to Linux-centric people?! References: <80243.932882416@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > Hardly ever used?!?!??!?! FOTCROTFLOLMAO!!!!!!!!!! > > You know, there should be some kind of fine levied on those > who use more than, say, 7 characters in any acronym. :) You keep the t-shirt, I keep the acronyms. (though I wouldn't mind exchanging them...) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Your usefulness to my realm ended the day you made it off Hustaing alive." -- Sun Tzu Liao to his ex-finacee, Isis Marik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message