From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 18 5: 3:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dgriffin.org (dgriffin.org [205.147.189.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A97B14CD4 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 05:03:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dick@dgriffin.org) Received: from localhost (dick@localhost) by dgriffin.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA24952; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 07:54:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dick@dgriffin.org) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 07:54:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Dick Griffin To: Gustavo V G C Rios Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stopping cron from sending mail In-Reply-To: <37913A50.92361656@ddsecurity.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Gustavo V G C Rios wrote: I have the same problem. I'll be watching for the quidance you get. Thanks for asking the question. > I have a crontab entry, and cron always sends me mail after it executes > that entry! > How can i stop it from sending me mail? Dick Griffin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 18 5:23:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pleb.cs.uct.ac.za (pleb.cs.uct.ac.za [137.158.132.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB42314CD4 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 05:23:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from khetan@link.freebsd.os.org.za) X-Disclaimer: Contents of this e-mail are the writer's opinion X-Disclaimer2: and may not be quoted, re-produced or forwarded X-Disclaimer3: (in part or whole) without the author's permission. Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost) by pleb.cs.uct.ac.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14227; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:21:36 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from khetan@link.freebsd.os.org.za) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:21:35 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar X-Sender: khetan@pleb.cs.uct.ac.za Reply-To: Khetan Gajjar To: Dick Griffin Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stopping cron from sending mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Mobile: +27 82 9907663 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Dick Griffin wrote: >I have the same problem. I'll be watching for the quidance you get. >Thanks for asking the question. add '> /dev/null 2>&1' to the end of it, eg. 0 * * * * /usr/local/bin/fetchmail -silent > /dev/null 2>&1 --- Khetan Gajjar (!kg1779) * khetan@iafrica.com ; khetan@os.org.za http://www.os.org.za/~khetan * Talk/Finger khetan@chain.freebsd.os.org.za FreeBSD enthusiast * http://www2.za.freebsd.org/ Stupidest quote heard : Who is this BSD, and why should we free him ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 18 12:20:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com [24.6.21.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B3F14E5A for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 12:20:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by cx344940-a.meta1.la.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA00911; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:18:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:18:54 -0500 (CDT) Organization: @Home Network From: Conrad Sabatier To: Khetan Gajjar Subject: Re: Stopping cron from sending mail Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, Dick Griffin Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18-Jul-99 Khetan Gajjar wrote: > On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Dick Griffin wrote: > >>I have the same problem. I'll be watching for the quidance you get. >>Thanks for asking the question. > > add '> /dev/null 2>&1' to the end of it, > eg. > 0 * * * * /usr/local/bin/fetchmail -silent > > /dev/null 2>&1 You can also place the line: MAILTO="" at the top of your crontab. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 18 14:40:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from esperi.demon.co.uk (esperi.demon.co.uk [194.222.138.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384F814FCE for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:40:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kieran@esperi.demon.co.uk) Received: from cuchulainn.tirnanog (4000@cuchulainn.tirnanog [192.168.1.68]) by esperi.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07687; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:40:15 +0100 Received: from localhost (kieran@localhost) by cuchulainn.tirnanog (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA11653; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:40:15 +0100 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:40:14 +0100 (BST) From: Kieran X-Sender: kieran@cuchulainn.tirnanog To: Khetan Gajjar Cc: Dick Griffin , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stopping cron from sending mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Khetan Gajjar wrote: > On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Dick Griffin wrote: > > >I have the same problem. I'll be watching for the quidance you get. > >Thanks for asking the question. > > add '> /dev/null 2>&1' to the end of it, > eg. > 0 * * * * /usr/local/bin/fetchmail -silent > /dev/null 2>&1 This is correct, but it would probably be a good thing to understand what is happening here, so here goes: The UNIX shell has 3 "files" defined by default: standard in (usually the keyboard) standard out (the normal output from any command. Goes to screen by default) and standard error (which is where error messages go to. Also goes to screen by default) For reasons lost in the mists of time, these have each been assigned a number, and they can be directed to write/read from other places. Std. in is 0, stdout is 1 and stderr is 2. The code snippet above directs stdout to go to /dev/null, and then sends stderr to the same place. You can send them to different places as well. For example, if you were compiling something, and wanted to know if anything failed, you night use a line like this: make 1>output 2>errors (If you want to test how this works, try "grep -l _yourname_ *" in your home directory. Your mailbox should include your name, and any directories should give errors. Then try rediirecting.) In the case of commands run by cron, standard out and standard error are directed towards mailing root/ postmaster (I'm not sure about this bit :-) The solution above sends all output to the bitbucket, which is what you asked for. It might be a good idea to send stderr to somewhere you can track it, in case something goes wrong that you night like to know about. Regards Kieran Ps Sue, I hope that this sort of thing meets the freebsd-newbies charter. I would have thought that this sort of thing is signal here, but would be noise on freebsd newbies. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 18 19:18:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 525DA14E98 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:18:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 13331 invoked by alias); 19 Jul 1999 02:18:34 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 13310 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jul 1999 02:18:33 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 02:18:33 -0000 Message-ID: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:18:37 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: A new soldier in the ranks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi everyone, So I go over to a friend's house and he's got all of his computers running this OS called "FreeBSD". I do my trademark eyebrow raise and he hands me a set of CDs. 3.1-Release. We spent the afternoon trying to install it on my Windows 98 box. Got a second HD to put FreeBSD on and started hacking away. We didn't get too far, X doesn't like my video card (ATI Rage Fury) and there's no drivers for my sound card (SBLive). I'm not new to computers by a long shot, but I've never really touched unix beyond the shell accounts I had with ISPs of way back in the days before PPP and 14.4kbps modems. I've never tried running my own unix system, so it will be quite the learning experience I hope. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 18 20: 7:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from office.ompages.com (ppp-209-160-172-228.01.promedia.net [209.160.172.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7284114D7B for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:07:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from publisher@laptop.ompages.com) Received: from laptop.ompages.com [192.168.1.2] (mail) by office.ompages.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 1163q7-0006hD-00; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:11:39 -0700 Received: from publisher by laptop.ompages.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 1163oK-0000LP-00; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:09:48 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:09:48 -0700 From: Nate To: Summoner , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A new soldier in the ranks Message-ID: <19990718200948.A297@laptop.ompages.com> References: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Sun, Jul 18, 1999 at 07:18:37PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jul 18, 1999 at 07:18:37PM -0700, Summoner wrote: > I'm not new to computers by a long shot, but I've never really > touched unix beyond the shell accounts I had with ISPs of way back in > the days before PPP and 14.4kbps modems. I've never tried running my > own unix system, so it will be quite the learning experience I hope. Using Win98 is not the same as knowing how to use computers. You will find that this is a very exciting learning experience. If you have trouble learning how to use FreeBSD I'm told RedHat 6.0 is a good intro to unix-like OSes. Good luck. -- _ NatePuri ("natedawg") o m p a g e s . c o m Certified Law Student p e r c r v t i o f i McGeorge School of Law e d i c a e a n m n Sacramento, CA n i v e t r y m d publisher@ompages.com a a s e y s t u s n8fs0n@softcom.net t s d o h n http://www.ompages.com e n i i UIN: 43504034 e s t y To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Jul 18 20:48:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE0C115085 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 28915 invoked by alias); 19 Jul 1999 03:46:41 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 28896 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jul 1999 03:46:40 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 03:46:40 -0000 Message-ID: <37929FA4.644C9BA2@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:46:44 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A new soldier in the ranks References: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net> <19990718200948.A297@laptop.ompages.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nate wrote: > Using Win98 is not the same as knowing how to use computers. Too true. Personally I dislike the lack of control Windows 98 allows the user. NT is better, but it too complex for it's own good. I liked the fact that you could really tweak Windows 3.1 and get great performance out of it. I'm thinking FreeBSD will afford me the luxury of control. To quote my friend, "FreeBSD does tweaking like Windows 98 does crashing." FTR, I'm a computer consultant. I don't want to sound like I'm boasting or anything. I build computers and networks for a living, and make an okay living at it. I'm certified MCSE and A+. My company is certified MSP. I've been using PCs since MS-DOS 3.3. I like to think I know how to use a computer, but I'm always finding new things to learn. Things like overclocking are an old concept, but 3D gaming and Celerons have added a context to it that never existed before. > You will find that this is a very exciting learning experience. I was (just this evening) reading through Greg Lehey's, "The Complete FreeBSD". It's still sinking in, but I can see myself spending many hours hacking away at a text console. Part of me is elated to once again have unix at my fingertips. Part of me is shocked at how used I had gotten to the "ease of use" of Windows. I look forward to the challenges running FreeBSD will present me. > If you have trouble learning how to use FreeBSD I'm told RedHat 6.0 > is a good intro to unix-like OSes. To be frank, while I think Linux has quite a few features that I like, not to mention the media-presence to accelerate developement (it can get over-accelerated, though), I don't like Linux as a concept on the whole. These days it seems, to me, that if you say you're a Linux user, people assume things about you that probably aren't true, just like if you say you're gay a lot of people envision "Priscilla Queen of the Desert." I know this is a can of worms I'm kicking here, but I don't like how the GPL forces you to release your source code. It's like saying that if you comment on a movie, you have to explain the reasoning for your comments in a public forum. Along that same line, the BSD license, to me, would be like not having to make an explaination no matter who hears your comments. > Good luck. Thanks, I hope I won't need it. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jul 19 8:39:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from topsecret.net (gill.apk.net [207.54.148.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5076B14E74 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:39:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gill@topsecret.net) Received: from stumpy by topsecret.net with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:36:17 -0400 From: "James Gill" To: Subject: question(0) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:36:55 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Return-Path: gill@topsecret.net Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Often in conversations people will refer to system programs and stuff with a number in parentheses afterwords. What is the significance of the numbers? What is their significance when there is no number within? Calling a manpage for a different (number) brings up a different manual page i think. for example a subject line from -security from last week: Re: OpenBSD's strlcpy(3) and strlcat(3) ===================================== James Gill * http://www.topsecret.net ===================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jul 19 9:14:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E500151D5 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:14:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-083.charm.net [209.143.116.83]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19468; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37934E97.B9F48A49@charm.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:13:11 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Gill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: question(0) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org James Gill wrote: > > Often in conversations people will refer to system programs and stuff with a > number in parentheses afterwords. What is the significance of the numbers? > What is their significance when there is no number within? Calling a > manpage for a different (number) brings up a different manual page i think. > > for example a subject line from -security from last week: > Re: OpenBSD's strlcpy(3) and strlcat(3) > > ===================================== > James Gill * http://www.topsecret.net > ===================================== > I usually do not quote stuff from The Books, but; "References to Manual pages are given as 'name(section)' thus sh(1) refers to the shell manual entry in section 1.", historical. User commands where grouped together in section one so, (1) after a command tells you it is a User (shell) Command. Some commands are also subroutines for C, therefore, (3), or a system call (2). If a function, as in doing something, not f(x) kind of thing, is used in say, Command (1), System Call (2), and maybe others the name will be slightly different. Don't want to confuse anyone - that means the OS not the user. try this: try http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/basics.html -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jul 19 10:48:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A0C14EFA for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jacques@panix.com) Received: from panix7.panix.com (root@panix7.nyc.access.net [166.84.0.232]) by mail1.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with ESMTP id NAA12299; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from jacques@localhost) by panix7.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id NAA10135; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:46:12 -0400 From: Jacques Williams To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A new soldier in the ranks Message-ID: <19990719134612.A9887@panix.com> References: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net>; from Summoner on Sun, Jul 18, 1999 at 07:18:37PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jul 18, 1999 at 07:18:37PM -0700, Summoner wrote: > Hi everyone, > > So I go over to a friend's house and he's got all of his > computers running this OS called "FreeBSD". I do my trademark eyebrow > raise and he hands me a set of CDs. 3.1-Release. We spent the > afternoon trying to install it on my Windows 98 box. Got a second HD > to put FreeBSD on and started hacking away. We didn't get too far, X > doesn't like my video card (ATI Rage Fury) and there's no drivers for > my sound card (SBLive). The XFree86 website (http://www.xfree86.org) has a lot of helpful stuff about video cards, and I think you will not have too much trouble getting it working. > > I'm not new to computers by a long shot, but I've never really > touched unix beyond the shell accounts I had with ISPs of way back in > the days before PPP and 14.4kbps modems. I've never tried running my > own unix system, so it will be quite the learning experience I hope. > It will. Enjoy! Jacques Williams To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jul 19 21:27:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu (exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu [206.81.198.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A02DE15086 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hodeleri@seattleu.edu) Received: from seattleu.edu (ppp11.pm3c.wport.com [206.129.99.207]) by exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PCFM6GMW; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:26:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3793FA70.75FEBD68@seattleu.edu> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:26:24 -0700 From: Eric Hodel Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A new soldier in the ranks References: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Summoner wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > So I go over to a friend's house and he's got all of his > computers running this OS called "FreeBSD". I do my trademark eyebrow > raise and he hands me a set of CDs. 3.1-Release. We spent the > afternoon trying to install it on my Windows 98 box. Got a second HD > to put FreeBSD on and started hacking away. We didn't get too far, X > doesn't like my video card (ATI Rage Fury) and there's no drivers for > my sound card (SBLive). Have you tried using the pcm0 sound card? Put the following in your kernel config: device pcm0 at isa? port ? tty irq 5 drq 1 flags 0x0 You could try: device pcm0 at pci? but I think it only works the second way in -current. If it works, the Live will probably show up as pcm1 in dmesg. I've got a PCI128 working in -current. For more info on recompiling your kernel, check the handbook, /usr/share/doc/handbook/handbook.html -- Eric Hodel hodeleri@seattleu.edu "They cook your gonies" -Terry Lambert's uncle on why he doesn't have a microwave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jul 19 22:40:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9562D1525D for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:40:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 22489 invoked by alias); 20 Jul 1999 05:39:00 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 22470 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jul 1999 05:38:59 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 05:38:59 -0000 Message-ID: <37940B78.2DA05789@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:39:04 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Hodel Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A new soldier in the ranks References: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net> <3793FA70.75FEBD68@seattleu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Hodel wrote: >> ... there's no drivers for >> my sound card (SBLive). > > Have you tried using the pcm0 sound card? Put the following in your > kernel config: > device pcm0 at isa? port ? tty irq 5 drq 1 flags 0x0 > > You could try: > device pcm0 at pci? No I hadn't, but I'll give it a shot. I just don't want to have to swap out my SBLive for an AWE64. > but I think it only works the second way in -current. If it works, the > Live will probably show up as pcm1 in dmesg. > > I've got a PCI128 working in -current. The friend who loaned me the CDs claims the EMU10k chip (SBLive and PCI512) isn't supported in FreeBSD yet. Any confirmation of this? I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I step up to making a custom kernel. I also hear that Creative Labs is going to release drivers for Linux? (this is probably getting beyond the scope of this list) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jul 20 7:39:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.splusnet.com (mail.splusnet.com [216.47.32.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E6214FA2 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from become@splusnet.com) Received: from splusnet.com (sppp23.splusnet.com [206.190.211.97]) by mail.splusnet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA24209 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3794B534.9BDFD6C1@splusnet.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:43:16 -0700 From: become X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FREEBSD is the Best!!!!!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I learned about FreeBSD about a year ago, ever since I have been hooked! I started to do some research on unix os's about a year ago when my friend bought a copy of Linux, it got me interested. I found freeBSD as a link on a Linux page, did some reading on it and got a copy installed it and loved it ever since! I would love to be able to help out FreeBSD in any way I can. If you could give me some more information on how to become more involved I would be greatly appreciative. Thank You Matthew Amelin become@splusnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jul 20 12:52:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D212150ED for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:52:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 4577 invoked by alias); 20 Jul 1999 19:51:23 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 4554 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jul 1999 19:51:22 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 1999 19:51:22 -0000 Message-ID: <3794D340.A62275AF@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:51:28 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Hodel , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: pcm and SBLive (update) [Was: Re: A new soldier in the ranks] References: <37928AFD.DBF9EC5A@uswest.net> <3793FA70.75FEBD68@seattleu.edu> <37940B78.2DA05789@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It would seem the pcm driver doesn't work with the SBLive. But then I'm using 3.1 release version. It's no big deal really, I'll just have to add an ISA sound card and disable it in Windows. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jul 20 16:44:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8836A14BE7 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:44:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from UZS106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from [131.220.244.87] (ascend-tk-p87.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.87]) by f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA141516 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:42:35 +0200 X-Sender: UZS106@mailin.uni-bonn.de Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:00:35 +0200 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: Heiko Recktenwald Subject: Hi Everybody .... Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I wouldnt describe myself as a soldier but in this context, ok ;-) I am experimenting with 3.1, after some weeks 2.1.5. My first interest was to set up some kind of mailbox with apache, lynx, kermit, ppp and I think when I have gone tru this I can do everything...... Well, to do internet wouldnt be bad too ;-) In this context I have a problem. Never compiled anything, this will last some weeks, I find here tun0 and ppp0. Ready to use. Isnt it possible to make a simple network for the Win 95 box (or an old Dosbox) with FreeBSD as the router with a nullmodemcable using maybe ppp0 and the modem using tun0 ? One could give internet lessons or something like that with such a configuration. I do have two 3com ethernet cards but win 95 gives the impression that it doesnt like them. Lots of more questions but lets start here (without spamming comp.unix.bsd.*) ;-) Heiko -- http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~recktenw/vertigo/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jul 20 17: 4:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B0614DA9 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:04:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-115-101.charm.net [209.143.115.101]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29628; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37950DD0.AB7A9960@charm.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:01:20 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Heiko Recktenwald Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hi Everybody .... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heiko Recktenwald wrote: > > Hi, I wouldnt describe myself as a soldier but in this context, ok ;-) > > I am experimenting with 3.1, after some weeks 2.1.5. My first interest was > to set up some kind of mailbox with apache, lynx, kermit, ppp and I think > when I have gone tru this I can do everything...... > > Well, to do internet wouldnt be bad too ;-) > > In this context I have a problem. Never compiled anything, this will last > some weeks, I find here tun0 and ppp0. Ready to use. Isnt it possible to > make a simple network for the Win 95 box (or an old Dosbox) with FreeBSD as > the router with a nullmodemcable using maybe ppp0 and the modem using tun0 ? > > One could give internet lessons or something like that with such a > configuration. > > I do have two 3com ethernet cards but win 95 gives the impression that it > doesnt like them. > > Lots of more questions but lets start here (without spamming > comp.unix.bsd.*) ;-) > > Heiko > -- > http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~recktenw/vertigo/ > hi, Have fun. I think this ppp primer is a good place to start. http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html Also do a search, ppp, network, and check the handbook. The primer covers win95. -dutch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 2: 1:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC10C150D3 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 02:01:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from UZS106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from [131.220.244.70] (ascend-tk-p70.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.70]) by f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16368; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:58:47 +0200 X-Sender: UZS106@mailin.uni-bonn.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37950DD0.AB7A9960@charm.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:56:37 +0200 To: Dutch Collins From: Heiko Recktenwald Subject: Re: Hi Everybody .... Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 2:01 Uhr +0200 on 21.07.1999, Dutch Collins wrote: >Have fun. I think this ppp primer is a good place to start. > >http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html > >Also do a search, ppp, network, and check the handbook. The primer >covers win95. Thanks ! I have an empty directory /usr/share/doc/tutorials/ppp, where I expected this pedantic primer. I'll have to download it in pieces and read it offline, telephoncosts here in germany are incredible high. German telekom. And its not part of the live filesystem (CD 2)..., at least its not in /usr/share/doc. (Btw, why are the long filesnames not supported here under Win95 ?) But my PPP (tun0) is running, since yesterday, thanks to the very brillant man ppp and the ppp.config.sample file. For me, the handbook was too confusing, when it came to editing ppp.conf. But using two kinds of PPP is a different thing. I think I should have a user "ppp", using pppd, there was an example somewhere in the handbook. Maybe I am seeing problems where no problems are... ;-) Well, newbies... Now, I have mainly two questions: (1) What hostname should I use ? Sendmail finds a SMTP host here without any configurations on my side, maybe this is part of PPP or DNS, but root gets mails saying that this host doesnt allow everybody to use it, especially not a host without a proper hostname. I think I have to give apache a hostname too, in httpd.conf, that I need for playing with perl. How could I when I have dynamic IP and the proper hostname is never the same ? (2) I cant get the "easy" leafnode running. Do I have to create all directories by hand, /var/spool/news/* ? Empty files too ? I have created two directories with owner news, out.going and interesting.articles. Since then fetchnews doesnt complain anymore, that it couldnt open those dirs, it says nothing.... PPP, I have an old UART, an old 28800 modem, am using 38400, which is much faster than 28800 or 57400. 3 - 4 kB per second seems ok. Sometimes I have broken links, dont know why. German Telekom is providing the modemservice to the university here.......for "free"... Sorry for my baaaad english and best wishes from Bonn, Heiko To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 6:41:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4C214E2F for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 06:41:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-005.charm.net [209.143.116.5]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22163; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3795CD78.42668769@charm.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:39:04 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Heiko Recktenwald Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hi Everybody .... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heiko Recktenwald wrote: > > At 2:01 Uhr +0200 on 21.07.1999, Dutch Collins wrote: > >Have fun. I think this ppp primer is a good place to start. > > > >http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html > > > >Also do a search, ppp, network, and check the handbook. The primer > >covers win95. > > Thanks ! I have an empty directory /usr/share/doc/tutorials/ppp, where I > expected this pedantic primer. I'll have to download it in pieces and read > it offline, telephoncosts here in germany are incredible high. German > telekom. And its not part of the live filesystem (CD 2)..., at least its > not in /usr/share/doc. (Btw, why are the long filesnames not supported here > under Win95 ?) I think you mean that all 3 German servers are not a local telephone charge. About the MS Long File Names? When I mount a MSDOS drive I get Long File Names, other than that I am not sure what you mean. > > But my PPP (tun0) is running, since yesterday, thanks to the very brillant > man ppp and the ppp.config.sample file. For me, the handbook was too > confusing, when it came to editing ppp.conf. But using two kinds of PPP is > a different thing. I think I should have a user "ppp", using pppd, there > was an example somewhere in the handbook. Maybe I am seeing problems where > no problems are... ;-) Well, newbies... You might ask somebody with more experience than me. I use ppp as 'user'. > Now, I have mainly two questions: (1) What hostname should I use ? Sendmail > finds a SMTP host here without any configurations on my side, maybe this is > part of PPP or DNS, but root gets mails saying that this host doesnt allow > everybody to use it, especially not a host without a proper hostname. I > think I have to give apache a hostname too, in httpd.conf, that I need for > playing with perl. How could I when I have dynamic IP and the proper > hostname is never the same ? > > (2) I cant get the "easy" leafnode running. Do I have to create all > directories by hand, /var/spool/news/* ? Empty files too ? I have created > two directories with owner news, out.going and interesting.articles. Since > then fetchnews doesnt complain anymore, that it couldnt open those dirs, it > says nothing.... > > PPP, I have an old UART, an old 28800 modem, am using 38400, which is much > faster than 28800 or 57400. 3 - 4 kB per second seems ok. Sometimes I have > broken links, dont know why. German Telekom is providing the modemservice > to the university here.......for "free"... > > Sorry for my baaaad english and best wishes from Bonn, > > Heiko > Do you mean the name of your machine, localhost? I cannot be sure. An example; my machine, the box that will become a network gateway is called, maleline.section.one, this is not a valid name except to the boxes I will connect locally. Other than that I cannot answer. English? Don't worry about. You should hear what my southern accent does to it, and anyway when I was studying at AEG the guys there used english as a courtesy to me. All I can do is read some German comments in a Assembler coded program they wrote. -dutch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 8:44:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (pau-amma.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A5C154C9 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:44:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA55522 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:44:34 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199907211544.IAA55522@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: First time for my own PC hardware Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org OK; some of y'all may recognize that I'm no "newbie" to UNIX. But after almost 1.5 years of administering FreeBSD boxen here, and working with various UNIX environments since 1986, multi-user systems since '70, and computers since '69, I finally broke down and bought some PC hardware over the weekend -- first time. Grrr.... :-( OK. I picked up a used box from one of my favorite "asset recovery" shops, with the intent to start turning it into a router & NAT box. (DSL install is scheduled for a week from today. Pac*Bell doesn't seem to care how I use it (as long as I don't spam with it), so among other things, I'm planning on running a nameserver where I can do primary nameservice for some set of domains, and also do secondary nameservice in exchange for reciprocity with others similarly-inclined and -situated. This, for those whose only exposure to the Internet has been post-UUNet, is the way Things Used To Be -- as far as DNS is concerned, anyway.) So I installed FreeBSD 3.2-R from the USENIX CD on it, and it seems to be going reasonably well. I don't have the (static) IP assignment yet, so there's only so much I can do with it, but that work is progressing reasonably well. In the mean time, I also started getting what I (thought I) needed to put together a replacement desktop for my wife. She's currently using our venerable Sun 3/60 (that's an 11-year-old box, folks) that is completely stuffed with 24 MB RAM; it runs X, as well as being the externally-visible machine when its PPP connection is up, and in that capacity also runs the Apache Web server (in proxy mode), so we can run Netscape on my desktop (a SPARCstation-5/110, Solaris 2.6). Same asset-recovery shop had some ATX chassis/power supplies, so I picked one up. Happened across a decent-seeming shop that had PC hardware during a freelance consulting gig, so I bought an ASUS P5A motherboard & some hardware to stuff in it. (And a monitor, since the monitors I have are Sun monitors.) Got everything home, and found that "ATX" apparently doesn't mean that an "ATX" motherboard will necessarily fit in an "ATX" chassis. :-( And the motherboard seemed to be shy one jumper (for setting the voltage to the CPU core). And neither the motherboard nor the chassis had any screws for attaching one to the other. So I guess I get to take the chassis back, go to the place where I got the motherboard, get a chassis that fits, and get an extra jumper & some screws.... If I'm able to get the box put together, and if everything works, I think the result should be a dramatic improvement over the 3/60. :-} (Since she's currently using tvtwm, I know I can support that under FreeBSD, 'cause that's what I'm using as I type this. Maybe I'll try one of the fancier desktops... if I also get some additional memory for the box. I'm currently using 32 MB on this desktop at work, so I thought that 64 MB for her machine should be reasonable.) I keep getting the impression that PC hardware is ... quirky (to put it nicely). No real questions (though suggestions are welcome); just thought I'd share (and rant) a little. Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 9:38:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B8114D66 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:38:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA26415; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:36:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:36:02 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware Message-ID: <19990721093602.A26255@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <199907211544.IAA55522@pau-amma.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199907211544.IAA55522@pau-amma.whistle.com>; from David Wolfskill on Wed, Jul 21, 1999 at 08:44:34AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jul 21, 1999 at 08:44:34AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: [ Deleted interesting story about installing FreeBSD ] > Happened across a decent-seeming shop that had PC hardware during a > freelance consulting gig, so I bought an ASUS P5A motherboard & some > hardware to stuff in it. (And a monitor, since the monitors I have are > Sun monitors.) ASUS motherboards are some of the best on the market. I've buildt dozens of FreeBSD boxes using these and never had a problem. > > Got everything home, and found that "ATX" apparently doesn't mean that > an "ATX" motherboard will necessarily fit in an "ATX" chassis. :-( And > the motherboard seemed to be shy one jumper (for setting the voltage to > the CPU core). And neither the motherboard nor the chassis had any > screws for attaching one to the other. > > So I guess I get to take the chassis back, go to the place where I got > the motherboard, get a chassis that fits, and get an extra jumper & > some screws.... Sounds like you got a bad chassis. It seems like most of the low end cases are coming out of China these days. The quality control on these units seem to really variable. I recently got one that had all the holes that hold the motherboard mounting post were offset by a good inch and a half. I guess there are name brands among cases, I just haven't looked into it. > > If I'm able to get the box put together, and if everything works, I > think the result should be a dramatic improvement over the 3/60. :-} > (Since she's currently using tvtwm, I know I can support that under > FreeBSD, 'cause that's what I'm using as I type this. Maybe I'll try > one of the fancier desktops... if I also get some additional memory for > the box. I'm currently using 32 MB on this desktop at work, so I > thought that 64 MB for her machine should be reasonable.) > > I keep getting the impression that PC hardware is ... quirky (to put it > nicely). There is not a lot of love in my heart for PC hardware manufactures. Some, like ASUS, Tyan, Adaptec, and Seagate, work very hard to produce a quality product at a competitive price. And then there are those manufactures that just throw the product together any old way. The result is piece `o shit hardware that wastes your time & money and taxes your good nature. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 11:12: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bootes.ebtech.net (bootes.ebtech.net [142.250.0.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3447914C4C for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@geeky1.ebtech.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by bootes.ebtech.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with UUCP id NAA18633; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:37:51 -0400 Received: from localhost (paul@localhost) by geeky1.ebtech.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA11125; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:02:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:02:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Anderson To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware In-Reply-To: <199907211544.IAA55522@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, David Wolfskill wrote: > > Same asset-recovery shop had some ATX chassis/power supplies, so I > picked one up. > Tell me, are the edges of the sheet-metal sharp? If so, you got an el-cheapo case. You're better off to buy a new case, and search for one with the least sharp edges. Now, for the standoffs with which to mount the motherboard, they should be inside the case you bought in a small plastic bag that's stuffed full of screws, standoffs, jumpers, etc. If the ATX motherboard won't fit the ATX case, there's something seriously screwy going on. TTYL! --- Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group http://www.sar-net.com/slug http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul "Trapped, like a trap in a trap." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 11:17: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (pau-amma.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4552D15551 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:17:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA56487; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:16:59 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199907211816.LAA56487@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:02:11 -0400 (EDT) >From: Paul Anderson >Tell me, are the edges of the sheet-metal sharp? If so, you got an >el-cheapo case. You're better off to buy a new case, and search for one >with the least sharp edges. Understood, and no; the "fit & finish" seemed reasonably good, and the bays were fairly accessible. >Now, for the standoffs with which to mount >the motherboard, they should be inside the case you bought in a small >plastic bag that's stuffed full of screws, standoffs, jumpers, etc. If >the ATX motherboard won't fit the ATX case, there's something seriously >screwy going on. TTYL! (Was that a pun? :-) It's the cut-outs for the (serial, parallel, keyboard, & mouse) connectors that didn't match up. Thanks, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 13: 1:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf24.de (mail.surf24.de [212.62.192.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89E8154F3 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:01:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@surf24.de) Received: from duffner.surf24.de (surf242.surf24.de [212.62.193.242]) by mail.surf24.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA16284; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:59:44 +0200 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:45:20 +0200 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907211544.IAA55522@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed 21 Jul, David Wolfskill wrote: > Same asset-recovery shop had some ATX chassis/power supplies, so I > picked one up. Be sure to get a decent power-supply. German c't magazine did a test some time ago. Tough, the quality seems to have increased, compared from what I saw on the test one year ago. > Happened across a decent-seeming shop that had PC hardware during a > freelance consulting gig, so I bought an ASUS P5A motherboard & some > hardware to stuff in it. (And a monitor, since the monitors I have are > Sun monitors.) > > Got everything home, and found that "ATX" apparently doesn't mean that > an "ATX" motherboard will necessarily fit in an "ATX" chassis. :-( Aren't there two types of ATX-standards ? (The latest is ATX 2.01) I don't visit http://www.tomshardware.com very often, but I'd expect to find some answers on it. (Note that all info on this page may be biased ("sponsors") or not.) > And the motherboard seemed to be shy one jumper (for setting the > voltage to the CPU core). And neither the motherboard nor the chassis > had any screws for attaching one to the other. Duh ! They _should_ seriouly be there. Overwhise: complain ! > So I guess I get to take the chassis back, go to the place where I got > the motherboard, get a chassis that fits, and get an extra jumper & > some screws.... Yup. > If I'm able to get the box put together, and if everything works, I > think the result should be a dramatic improvement over the 3/60. :-} What an understatement ;-) > (Since she's currently using tvtwm, I know I can support that under > FreeBSD, 'cause that's what I'm using as I type this. Maybe I'll try > one of the fancier desktops... if I also get some additional memory for > the box. I'm currently using 32 MB on this desktop at work, so I > thought that 64 MB for her machine should be reasonable.) Yes. More than 64 MB is only good to speed-up make world -j 10 ;-) I've got 64, and I can't complain. Who cares if X takes 5 or 4 secound to start-up ? > I keep getting the impression that PC hardware is ... quirky (to put it > nicely). No, but to get real, good hardware, one needs to spend more money than the average super-market buyer will ever do. (in Germany, computers are nowadays sold mostly in supermarkets, between cheese and fruit-juice, if you want) (My brother's Suse-Box: Gigabyte BXE/333P2/64MB/8MB Elsa/9GB IBMU/7200/) All parts mail-orderd, as almost no shop carries that equipement in stock, and even if, it would be insanely priced. > No real questions (though suggestions are welcome); just thought I'd > share (and rant) a little. Hehe. When we assembled my brother's PC, we had some trouble fitting the PCI-cards, as the manufacturing tolerances added-up very unfavourably...:-( -- And it was a real good case, with a top power-supply (169 DM, <90 USD) BTW: I'll get a 'real' Sun, soon. A friend got an old one at his job and has for now no time to play with it. It is not as old as your 3/60, though. At least, I hope it. Of course, I hope that when the 'lease period' is over, he has completely lost interest in it, and I can buy it for a reasonable sum... cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@surf24.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 13:34: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.198.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF42E14F0D for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@marconi.concentric.net) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely [207.155.198.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id QAA04503; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:32:22 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts004d31.mer-id.concentric.net (ts004d31.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.187]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id QAA10456; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:34:39 -0600 (MDT) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: Paul Anderson Cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bit of case talk on this thread, thought I'd add my 2 cents. Currently in the process of acquiring a custom configured system, it arrived and I went to pick it up only to discover they had slipped a Seagate SCSI HD in instead of the agreed upon IBM, but got to see that case close up in the process of checking out components. As recommended by my AIX SE in Texas, it's an Enlight. Very, very slick. Components go into "boxes" which attach via quick release mechanisms. To work on the motherboard, one simply unplugs the attached devices, pulls down on a spring release handle and viola! The mother tips out for easy accessability. It's a Minitower because it's going in our motor coach, but things are _much_ easier to get to as compared to the full tower in my office. $30 bucks more than a "standard" box that this particular shop sells to keep prices down. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 16: 1:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C93BC1559C for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 18780 invoked by alias); 21 Jul 1999 22:59:22 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 18752 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jul 1999 22:59:22 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 22:59:22 -0000 Message-ID: <379650CD.586244EB@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:59:25 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: <199907211544.IAA55522@pau-amma.whistle.com> <19990721093602.A26255@ontario.mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Josef Grosch wrote: > On Wed, Jul 21, 1999 at 08:44:34AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: >> So I guess I get to take the chassis back, go to the place where I got >> the motherboard, get a chassis that fits, and get an extra jumper & >> some screws.... > > Sounds like you got a bad chassis. It seems like most of the low end cases > are coming out of China these days. The quality control on these units > seem to really variable. I recently got one that had all the holes that > hold the motherboard mounting post were offset by a good inch and a half. I > guess there are name brands among cases, I just haven't looked into it. I'm partial to Inwin cases, smoothed edges, no drive rails, solid construction, and almost any non-rackmount form factor you can think of. They have this great feature: the mainboard tray and I/O back panel are a single piece that slides out of the case entirely. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 16: 1:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4057C155AC for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:01:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 20443 invoked by alias); 21 Jul 1999 23:01:22 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 20426 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jul 1999 23:01:22 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 23:01:22 -0000 Message-ID: <37965145.A62E1A55@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:01:25 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill Cc: paul@geeky1.ebtech.net, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: <199907211816.LAA56487@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Wolfskill wrote: > It's the cut-outs for the (serial, parallel, keyboard, & mouse) > connectors that didn't match up. You mean that retangular metal snap-in panel on the top/left of the I/O back panel when the ports are supposed to fit through? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 16:12:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (pau-amma.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B2D14D33 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:12:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id QAA57851; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:10:47 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199907212310.QAA57851@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: dhw@whistle.com, summoner@uswest.net Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <37965145.A62E1A55@uswest.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:01:25 -0700 >From: Summoner >David Wolfskill wrote: >> It's the cut-outs for the (serial, parallel, keyboard, & mouse) >> connectors that didn't match up. >You mean that retangular metal snap-in panel on the top/left of the >I/O back panel when the ports are supposed to fit through? It's a snap-in panel? Hmmm... could be. I'll need to check after I get home. But to answer the question, yes; I believe you've identified it correctly. If it's a snap-in panel, ought one be able to obtain a different panel to replace it? [Urrg. Thats' a question. Maybe I should redirect to -hardware?] Thanks, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 16:37:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9643D155AD for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 8257 invoked by alias); 21 Jul 1999 23:36:36 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 8233 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jul 1999 23:36:35 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 1999 23:36:35 -0000 Message-ID: <37965987.AF7582FB@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:36:39 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: <199907212310.QAA57851@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Wolfskill wrote: > >Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:01:25 -0700 > >From: Summoner > >David Wolfskill wrote: > >> It's the cut-outs for the (serial, parallel, keyboard, & mouse) > >> connectors that didn't match up. > > >You mean that retangular metal snap-in panel on the top/left of the > >I/O back panel when the ports are supposed to fit through? > > It's a snap-in panel? Hmmm... could be. I'll need to check after I get > home. > > But to answer the question, yes; I believe you've identified it > correctly. If it's a snap-in panel, ought one be able to obtain a > different panel to replace it? A decent mainboard manufacturer will supply you with the correct I/O panel for the mainboard you bought, and if it's a quality case, the panel will snap in easily. The cases I get from Inwin come with two "universal" panels with pop-outs (like electrical boxes have). One's for boards that have onboard RJ45 ethernet. The other is for boards with onboard video/sound. Both have popouts for serial, parallel, USB, and mouse/keyboard. > [Urrg. Thats' a question. Maybe I > should redirect to -hardware?] Should we take this to e-mail? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 18: 4:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1061D14E0C for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@hons.cs.usyd.edu.au) Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:04:08 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" In-Reply-To: <199907211544.IAA55522@pau-amma.whistle.com> from "David Wolfskill" at Jul 21, 99 08:44:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2074 Message-Id: <19990722010418.1061D14E0C@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Got everything home, and found that "ATX" apparently doesn't mean that > an "ATX" motherboard will necessarily fit in an "ATX" chassis. :-( That doesn't sound right; I'd suspect that the case is not ATX. > And > the motherboard seemed to be shy one jumper (for setting the voltage to > the CPU core). Hmmm. Asus is a pretty reputable brand. (And the P5A is a popular motherboard). Take a look at http://www.asus.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Pentium/P5a/jumper.html > And neither the motherboard nor the chassis had any > screws for attaching one to the other. That should have come with the case. Don't use screws, there are little plastic things that you push through the holes in the chassis and some "wings" come out and lock it in place. Then you push the motherboard down on it (from the other side) and another set of "wings" locks it in place. At least, that's how it was for me :) > So I guess I get to take the chassis back, go to the place where I got > the motherboard, get a chassis that fits, and get an extra jumper & > some screws.... > > If I'm able to get the box put together, and if everything works, I > think the result should be a dramatic improvement over the 3/60. :-} > (Since she's currently using tvtwm, I know I can support that under > FreeBSD, 'cause that's what I'm using as I type this. Maybe I'll try > one of the fancier desktops... Noooooooooooo. Long live the simple window managers! (like twm, mwm). Although I must admit I can't live without a virtual desktop now. That's why we've got tvtwm, pmwm (on UnixWare), and fvwm (version 1 :) ). > if I also get some additional memory for > the box. I'm currently using 32 MB on this desktop at work, so I > thought that 64 MB for her machine should be reasonable.) I've got 64Mb and I don't think it's ever swapped. > I keep getting the impression that PC hardware is ... quirky (to put it > nicely). If you know where incompatabilities exist, you can usually avoid them without too much trouble. The salespeople will do their damndest to give you flaky hardware :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 18:18: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 85DDD14C41 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@hons.cs.usyd.edu.au) Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:16:05 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" In-Reply-To: <199907211816.LAA56487@pau-amma.whistle.com> from "David Wolfskill" at Jul 21, 99 11:16:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 328 Message-Id: <19990722011803.85DDD14C41@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > It's the cut-outs for the (serial, parallel, keyboard, & mouse) > connectors that didn't match up. > You should be able to change that. Your case should have come with several different covers for the back, each with a different layout for parallel, keyboard, mouse sockets. One of them should match your motherboard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 18:20:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 50A1714EF9 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 22117 invoked by alias); 22 Jul 1999 01:20:29 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 22083 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jul 1999 01:20:29 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 01:20:29 -0000 Message-ID: <379671DF.9DF193CD@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:20:31 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ML Duke Cc: Paul Anderson , David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ML Duke wrote: > > Bit of case talk on this thread, thought I'd add my 2 cents. > > Currently in the process of acquiring a custom configured system, > it arrived and I went to pick it up only to discover they had > slipped a Seagate SCSI HD in instead of the agreed upon IBM, but > got to see that case close up in the process of checking out > components. > > As recommended by my AIX SE in Texas, it's an Enlight. > Very, very slick. Components go into "boxes" which attach via > quick release mechanisms. To work on the motherboard, one simply > unplugs the attached devices, pulls down on a spring release handle > and viola! The mother tips out for easy accessability. > It's a Minitower because it's going in our motor coach, but > things are _much_ easier to get to as compared to the full > tower in my office. > $30 bucks more than a "standard" box that this particular shop > sells to keep prices down. What do you mean by unplug the attached devices? Do you mean just the various cables, or do you have to remove the expansion cards as well? I had an Enlight desktop case here in the shop, it is a nice case design, with the hood-fastening screws on the front of the case behind the snap-off bezel, but they don't round off the metal edges as well as they could. They aren't nearly as bad as some cheap cases which will slice your hands to ribbons, but I've gotten several small cuts from picking up the case when the hood is off or handling drive cages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 18:20:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 649E714EF9 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 22276 invoked by alias); 22 Jul 1999 01:20:41 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 22251 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jul 1999 01:20:40 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 01:20:40 -0000 Message-ID: <379671EB.F6315807@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:20:43 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rainer M Duffner Cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rainer M Duffner wrote: > On Wed 21 Jul, David Wolfskill wrote: > >> Same asset-recovery shop had some ATX chassis/power supplies, so I >> picked one up. > > Be sure to get a decent power-supply. > German c't magazine did a test some time ago. > Tough, the quality seems to have increased, compared from what I saw on > the test one year ago. It would seem that way, but common/stock (read case mfg supplied) power supplies have been deteriorating in quality. Nearly all mainboards these days now have voltage regulators and so many capacitors on them that power supply shortcomings are hard to discover. All the servers and workstations I build have PC Power & Cooling units in them and I must say I'm very happy with the results, never had one die on me (that hadn't been abused). > Aren't there two types of ATX-standards ? > (The latest is ATX 2.01) > I don't visit http://www.tomshardware.com very often, but I'd expect to > find some answers on it. > (Note that all info on this page may be biased ("sponsors") or not.) I'm not sure about ATX 2.01, but there's ATX and MicroATX. ATX has seven slots, MicroATX is pretty much an ATX board with the bottom/ right 3 expansion slots but off. The two are identical otherwise, I believe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 18:27:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 71FB715615 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:27:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@hons.cs.usyd.edu.au) Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:27:04 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" In-Reply-To: from "ML Duke" at Jul 21, 99 02:34:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 877 Message-Id: <19990722012711.71FB715615@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Currently in the process of acquiring a custom configured system, > it arrived and I went to pick it up only to discover they had > slipped a Seagate SCSI HD in instead of the agreed upon IBM, When I bought my computer, I asked for a Quantum Fireball. The salesman said "Sure, not a problem". I went to pick it up a week later and they gave me a Seagate. I told them I was not going to accept it, because I had specifically requested a Quantum Fireball, at which point they told me they don't sell Quantum HDDs! > As recommended by my AIX SE in Texas, it's an Enlight. > Very, very slick. Components go into "boxes" which attach via > quick release mechanisms. To work on the motherboard, one simply > unplugs the attached devices, pulls down on a spring release handle > and viola! The mother tips out for easy accessability. Sounds kind-of like those new Apple cases. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jul 21 20:13:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bootes.ebtech.net (bootes.ebtech.net [142.250.0.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2033F155E0 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:13:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@geeky1.ebtech.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by bootes.ebtech.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with UUCP id WAA23280; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:37:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (paul@localhost) by geeky1.ebtech.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA12713; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:26:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:26:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Anderson To: Rainer M Duffner Cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Rainer M Duffner wrote: > I don't visit http://www.tomshardware.com very often, but I'd expect to > find some answers on it. > Well, I wouldn't pay too much attention to Tom's Hardware. My associate and I have pretty much come to the conclusion that Tom is an idiot. He heavily advocates overclocking, has a remarkable skill for panning good hardware and recommending pieces of junk. TTYL! --- Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group http://www.sar-net.com/slug http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul "We will leave no tern unstoned in our investigation!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 1:10:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F18DD1553F for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:10:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 3297 invoked by alias); 22 Jul 1999 08:09:51 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 3270 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jul 1999 08:09:50 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 08:09:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3796D1CD.1BC80BAC@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:09:49 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Anderson Cc: Rainer M Duffner , David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paul Anderson wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Rainer M Duffner wrote: > > > I don't visit http://www.tomshardware.com very often, but I'd expect to > > find some answers on it. > > > Well, I wouldn't pay too much attention to Tom's Hardware. My associate > and I have pretty much come to the conclusion that Tom is an idiot. He > heavily advocates overclocking, has a remarkable skill for panning good > hardware and recommending pieces of junk. TTYL! We mustn't forget his talnet for temper tantrums when other people compete with him or say not-nice things about him! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 4:26:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D4F14CFF for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from UZS106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from [131.220.244.39] (ascend-tk-p39.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.39]) by f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA225714; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:23:18 +0200 X-Sender: UZS106@mailin.uni-bonn.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990722012711.71FB715615@hub.freebsd.org> References: from "ML Duke" at Jul 21, 99 02:34:39 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:07:09 +0200 To: "Michael Henry" From: Heiko Recktenwald Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Speaking of cases, since I had my old Mac SE some weeks open, to replace the 20 MB HD, I ask myself, why there has never been any interest in such a "Compact PC". I heard Tandberg, better known for HIFI etc, made such things for internal use. For many people (me !!;-) such a machine could be perfect. Well, it should have place for the usual mainboards etc, be functional, I wouldnt care where the floppy is, on the side, on the back, cables should be, maybe, on the side, for better accessibility, mainboard at the bottom, the rest, place for HD etc, somewhere together with the not too big monitor parts. Maybe a monitor manufacturer should make such a case, I was thinking of "Phillips Gloelampen"...;-) >> Very, very slick. Components go into "boxes" which attach via >> quick release mechanisms. To work on the motherboard, one simply >> unplugs the attached devices, pulls down on a spring release handle >> and viola! The mother tips out for easy accessability. > >Sounds kind-of like those new Apple cases. Where do you want to go tommorow .... There are Linuxlike PCs on the market now, very simple, very cheap, in France. Heiko To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 4:27:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D6D14CEF for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from UZS106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from [131.220.244.39] (ascend-tk-p39.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.39]) by f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA98950 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:23:39 +0200 X-Sender: UZS106@mailin.uni-bonn.de Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:18:50 +0200 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: Heiko Recktenwald Subject: Mailsoftware Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The machine is connected via PPP to the Internet, dynamic IP, I even managed to send a mail with sendmail to myself (an up to then unknown mailhost added a new adress, envelop.., interesting header), but I think this use of the universities mailsystem wasnt ok and I wish, I could restrict sendmail somehow for local use, and use Pine or whatever for the real things. Pine and fetchmail ? Pine cannot do Pop. No experiences, something that can do filters like Eudora would be great, but it mustnt be one program for sending and receiving. Any suggestions ? Heiko To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 4:51:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5962314DE1 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 27464 invoked by alias); 22 Jul 1999 11:51:31 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 27443 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jul 1999 11:51:31 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 1999 11:51:31 -0000 Message-ID: <379705C2.AF95F47F@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 04:51:30 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Heiko Recktenwald Cc: Michael Henry , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: from "ML Duke" at Jul 21, 99 02:34:39 pm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heiko Recktenwald wrote: > > Speaking of cases, since I had my old Mac SE some weeks open, to replace > the 20 MB HD, I ask myself, why there has never been any interest in such a > "Compact PC". I heard Tandberg, better known for HIFI etc, made such things > for internal use. For many people (me !!;-) such a machine could be > perfect. Well, it should have place for the usual mainboards etc, be > functional, I wouldnt care where the floppy is, on the side, on the back, > cables should be, maybe, on the side, for better accessibility, mainboard > at the bottom, the rest, place for HD etc, somewhere together with the not > too big monitor parts. Maybe a monitor manufacturer should make such a > case, I was thinking of "Phillips Gloelampen"...;-) You mean something like Emachines' E-one (released in Japan under the Sotec name)? http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2298047,00.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 6: 6:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B7914D4A for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 06:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from johnmxl@radiks.net) Received: from radiks.net (dsp-396-omaha.radiks.net [205.138.126.182]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA22216 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:05:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37971744.F0FE17FA@radiks.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:06:12 -0500 From: John Amdor III Reply-To: johnmxl@radiks.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: <199907211816.LAA56487@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The ATX case I recently purchased had replaceable panels for the connectors so that you could use an AT board or an ATX board. Of course, the power supply only fit an ATX... John Amdor David Wolfskill wrote: > It's the cut-outs for the (serial, parallel, keyboard, & mouse) > connectors that didn't match up. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 7:55:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (pau-amma.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46FED14D7E for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:55:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA61090; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199907221453.HAA61090@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, mhenry@hons.cs.usyd.edu.au Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware In-Reply-To: <19990722010418.1061D14E0C@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:04:08 +1000 (EST) >From: "Michael Henry" >> Got everything home, and found that "ATX" apparently doesn't mean that >> an "ATX" motherboard will necessarily fit in an "ATX" chassis. :-( >That doesn't sound right; I'd suspect that the case is not ATX. The chassis had the "insert" placed in a different orientation from some of the others -- so I found when I took it back last night. This was from the "asset recovery shop" -- so it didn't have spare inserts or screws.... I then got to the place where I bought the motherboard, and bought a new chassis for the same amount of money, with mounting hardware, including a couple of screw-on inserts with knock-outs. One of these worked just fine. >> And >> the motherboard seemed to be shy one jumper (for setting the voltage to >> the CPU core). >Hmmm. Asus is a pretty reputable brand. (And the P5A is a popular motherboard). Turns out they had spare jumpers in the bag with the cables. I hadn't expected to find them there... but more to the point, I hadn't expected the jumper (of a set of 3 used to specify core CPU voltage) to not already be on the motherboard. >That should have come with the case. Don't use screws, there are little >plastic things that you push through the holes in the chassis and some >"wings" come out and lock it in place. Then you push the motherboard down >on it (from the other side) and another set of "wings" locks it in place. >At least, that's how it was for me :) Well, the plastic stand-offs looked kind of like: || || | ||=|==---\ ||=|==----> ||=|==---/ || | || So I figured that the pointed part should go up through the un-tinned holes in the motherboard. The base of the stand-off, though, didn't have any holes, nor was there anything in particular on the case to which to affix it. The case did have some brass stand-offs, similar to the hardware on either side of typical external connectors -- male-threaded on one end, female on the other. ("Hermaphrodite," I suppose.) There were just enough of these (6) to match with the tinned holes in the motherboard, and it turned out that the holes in the case (labelled as to whether they were for AT motherboards, ATX motherboards, or both/either) were threaded, so the male end of the hermaphrodite brass stand-offs would screw into these, the motherboard would sit on top of them, and supplied screws would hold the motherboard to the stand-offs. >Noooooooooooo. Long live the simple window managers! (like twm, mwm). >Although I must admit I can't live without a virtual desktop now. >That's why we've got tvtwm, pmwm (on UnixWare), and fvwm (version 1 :) ). Yup; I use tvtwm now; been using it (on that same 3/60) since '94 or so. >I've got 64Mb and I don't think it's ever swapped. :-) >If you know where incompatabilities exist, you can usually avoid them without >too much trouble. The salespeople will do their damndest to give you flaky >hardware :) Those of us who are "newbie" to PC hardware have an interesting time of it! Anyway, I wanted to correct any mis-impressions I gave of Asus. I've got the box basically put together... except that I neglected to pick up a DIN-to-Mini-DIN adapter (so I could connect the one PC-style keyboard in the house to the mini-DIN keyboard connector on the Asus board. (I did note, though, that the cables supplied with the motherboard were one floppy cable & one IDE cable... even though the motherboard has 2 IDE controllers. I thought it would be a good idea to make the CD the master for the secondary IDE, so it doesn't slow down access to the disk. Maybe I'll try picking up another cable, along with the adapter, tonight.) So I haven't given it a smoke test yet.... :-}, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 8:29:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5649914CC8 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from UZS106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from [131.220.244.39] (ascend-tk-p63.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.63]) by f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA86336; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:26:06 +0200 X-Sender: UZS106@mailin.uni-bonn.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <379705C2.AF95F47F@uswest.net> References: from "ML Duke" at Jul 21, 99 02:34:39 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:21:59 +0200 To: Summoner From: Heiko Recktenwald Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, yes, more or less, thanks for this URL ! There is a link to those crazy peoples in Cupertino suing somebody. Business Week had a report some time ago about a computer design price, I think 5 prices, 4 going to Corea, 1 to Apple... Yes, we are just at the beginning of the computer age and what to do, how to use computers isnt develloped yet, and those people in Corea think, maybe they are right as far as germany is concerned, that they are insofar at least 10 years ahead of us. Imacs dont have floppy drives anymore, anyway....and I have seen it only with lynx, dont know whats inside, if they allow standard parts to be used. This is a crucial point. Btw, on the mentioned link, there is another link to this very old lawsuit against Windoze... Have you seen KDEs Zoomeffect ? ... ;-) Heiko (cand. jur.;-) >You mean something like Emachines' E-one (released in Japan under the >Sotec name)? > >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2298047,00.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 11:19: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724AC15609 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA27777; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:16:44 -0700 (PDT) From: rick hamell To: ML Duke Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > As recommended by my AIX SE in Texas, it's an Enlight. > Very, very slick. Components go into "boxes" which attach via > quick release mechanisms. To work on the motherboard, one simply > unplugs the attached devices, pulls down on a spring release handle > and viola! The mother tips out for easy accessability. I've never been happy with Enlight cases personally. They're way to flimsy for me. The power supplies tend to leak a lot of RF also, which interferes with monitors and other computers. I use to use only Macase, but they discontinued the style I liked. The replacement style has a chubby front end that sticks out to far for me. Casedge has their LXsomething model (About $49+Shipping from Ark Technologies,) which I'm impressed with. Thick steel, no sharp pieces, it's all smoothed down (and dosen't collect finger prints!) The drive bays snap out and have one screw to fasten them down just in case. Minmaw is also a good brand, but they're a bit more expensive then Casedge. Their one major advantage is that they have a place in front to put a dust filter in front of the case fan. Rick --- I like my sex to be like basketball, one on one and lots of dribbling. -Naked Gun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 11:36: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D90214DE0 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:36:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA28236; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:33:49 -0700 (PDT) From: rick hamell To: Summoner Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware In-Reply-To: <379705C2.AF95F47F@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You mean something like Emachines' E-one (released in Japan under the > Sotec name)? > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2298047,00.html The problem with those machines is the way the hard drive is mounted. It's mounted vertically so that the IDE/Power connectors are at the top. It also happens to be the one orientation that paticular HD manufactur says to NOT mount the drives in....:( Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 22 11:44: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0688C14DC7 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:43:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA28423; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:42:33 -0700 (PDT) From: rick hamell To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware In-Reply-To: <199907221453.HAA61090@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The case did have some brass stand-offs, similar to the hardware on > either side of typical external connectors -- male-threaded on one end, > female on the other. ("Hermaphrodite," I suppose.) The ATX Specs specify the brass standoffs instead of the old plastic snap in ones. :) > (I did note, though, that the cables supplied with the motherboard were > one floppy cable & one IDE cable... even though the motherboard has 2 > IDE controllers. I thought it would be a good idea to make the CD the > master for the secondary IDE, so it doesn't slow down access to the > disk. Maybe I'll try picking up another cable, along with the adapter, > tonight.) It is a good idea. Usually (If you don't buy an OEM CDROM,) the second IDE cable you need is included with it. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 23 1:18:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2195F14BE1 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:18:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 10676 invoked by alias); 23 Jul 1999 08:17:44 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 10663 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jul 1999 08:17:43 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 08:17:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3798251F.67ED0972@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:17:35 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Heiko Recktenwald Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: from "ML Duke" at Jul 21, 99 02:34:39 pm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heiko Recktenwald wrote: > > Hi, yes, more or less, thanks for this URL ! There is a link to those crazy > peoples in Cupertino suing somebody. Business Week had a report some time > ago about a computer design price, I think 5 prices, 4 going to Corea, 1 to > Apple... Yes, we are just at the beginning of the computer age and what to > do, how to use computers isnt develloped yet, and those people in Corea > think, maybe they are right as far as germany is concerned, that they are > insofar at least 10 years ahead of us. If you're talking about building form into function, yes. Germany and parts of Eastern Europe and Asia come out with some very nice designs. American companies would all seem to have hot rod syndrome, spurred on by fat wallets and mad gamers. I'd be happy to sacrifice some performance if it meant Dell (or some equally respectable system maker) would start offering laquered, swirl-brushed steel enclosures with gold trim. > Imacs dont have floppy drives anymore, anyway....and I have seen it only > with lynx, dont know whats inside, if they allow standard parts to be used. > This is a crucial point. If you mean the Apple iMac, they never did. Apple sells an external USB LS-120 drive (reads 3.5" floppies and LS-120 disks). Never did care much for the LS-120 drive, really noisy and unreliable. The guts of an Emachine? They use Cyrix boards and CPUs. > Btw, on the mentioned link, there is another link to this very old lawsuit > against Windoze... Have you seen KDEs Zoomeffect ? ... ;-) KDE? :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 23 1:21: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A6B014BE1 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 11774 invoked by alias); 23 Jul 1999 08:20:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 11756 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jul 1999 08:20:07 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 08:20:07 -0000 Message-ID: <379825AE.9005C99A@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:19:58 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rick hamell Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org rick hamell wrote: > > > You mean something like Emachines' E-one (released in Japan under the > > Sotec name)? > > > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2298047,00.html > > The problem with those machines is the way the hard drive is > mounted. It's mounted vertically so that the IDE/Power connectors are at > the top. It also happens to be the one orientation that paticular HD > manufactur says to NOT mount the drives in....:( Lovely... Combined with a Cyrix CPU they're just a wonderful little package, aren't they? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 23 3:11:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E563914BF9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:11:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 18961 invoked by alias); 23 Jul 1999 10:08:47 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 18927 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jul 1999 10:08:47 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 10:08:47 -0000 Message-ID: <37983F26.A7F059B6@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:08:38 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rick hamell Cc: ML Duke , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org rick hamell wrote: > I've never been happy with Enlight cases personally. They're way > to flimsy for me. The power supplies tend to leak a lot of RF also, which > interferes with monitors and other computers. Enlight's a very consumer-directed company. Their offering of a dozen or so different bezel designs is evidence of that. They cut costs by using thin steel and not properly reinforcing it. > I use to use only Macase, but they discontinued the style I > liked. The replacement style has a chubby front end that sticks out to > far for me. Casedge has their LXsomething model (About $49+Shipping from > Ark Technologies,) which I'm impressed with. Thick steel, no sharp > pieces, it's all smoothed down (and dosen't collect finger prints!) The > drive bays snap out and have one screw to fasten them down just in case. > Minmaw is also a good brand, but they're a bit more expensive then > Casedge. Their one major advantage is that they have a place in front to > put a dust filter in front of the case fan. Macase... I don't suppose there's any relation to Mapower? Minmaw and Casedge are new ones on me, but then I only go looking for a new case maker when my current one(s) aren't up to my standards of craftsmanship. Ever try Inwin? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 23 7:25:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (pau-amma.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D125156BD for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:25:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA65087 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:22:20 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199907231422.HAA65087@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware In-Reply-To: <3797204E.53601B1A@uswest.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A quick follow-up: had a chance to go pick up the DIN-to-mini-DIN adapter that I was still lacking, so I did that last night. Connected the keyboard, plugged in the power... and the machine passed the "smoke test". (Terry (Lambert) explained that these machines work because of the "magic smoke" inside them. If the magic smoke leaks out, they stop working. Oh: :-) Anyway, none of the magic smoke leaked out.) And I get the distinct impression that a Matrox Millenium G400 is *not* completely backwards compatible with the G200: I haven't been able to get X configured so that the X server will start. I'll probably see if I can take the G400 back; maybe they'll have a G200 in stock. I'll be copying some examples I have here at work to make amd on the box behave reasonably, so my wife's home directory (which is on the SS5, along with all the others) will be found. It seems to be coping with NIS (aka "yp") OK. (Yes, I run NIS at home, as well as automounters, NFS, nameservice, NTP, and a bunch of other stuff. Basically, any of us should be able to login on any machine from any machine.) Re-built the kernel, tossing devices I don't expect I'll ever need (ISA Ethernet NICs, for example), and adding soft updates. Real customization will need to wait 'til the DSL connection is working properly: since it was easier, I had merely been doing any FTP from the (exposed) 3/60. With the DSL connection, I'll have a dedicated firewall/NAT box, so the individual machines on the inside should have the services available to them. Anyway, that's when I'll add the various bits (like tcsh) that we'll need. So: A few bumps along the way, but the general direction seems OK, even if the magnitude isn't quite what I'd like. Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 23 8:52:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu (exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu [206.81.198.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F51A15049 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:52:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hodeleri@seattleu.edu) Received: from seattleu.edu (ppp28.pm2a.wport.com [206.129.99.77]) by exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PKDHSJ3D; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:51:33 -0700 Message-ID: <37988F96.E2AF42D9@seattleu.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:51:50 -0700 From: Eric Hodel Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Tell me, are the edges of the sheet-metal sharp? If so, you got an > el-cheapo case. You're better off to buy a new case, and search for one > with the least sharp edges. Gotta love those ginsu cases! -- Eric Hodel hodeleri@seattleu.edu "They cook your gonies" -Terry Lambert's uncle on why he doesn't have a microwave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 23 9:57:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc2.occa.home.com (ha1.rdc2.occa.home.com [24.2.8.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CECF114C3F for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:57:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rbettle@criterion-group.com) Received: from criterion-group.com ([24.5.44.161]) by mail.rdc2.occa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990723165512.PFOI23826.mail.rdc2.occa.home.com@criterion-group.com>; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:55:12 -0700 Message-ID: <37989EFD.B029641D@criterion-group.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:57:33 -0700 From: Roy Bettle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Summoner Cc: rick hamell , ML Duke , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: <37983F26.A7F059B6@uswest.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4E707FA40B7888586A380989" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4E707FA40B7888586A380989 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You might also check into Antec: http://www.antec-inc.com/ We've had a great deal of luck with their cases (we've used them for about 4 years now); rolled edges, no supports in stupid places, reliable and quiet power supplies, etc. Hope it helps. RAB P.S. You may or may not want to actually buy from them. We typically use their site to locate the case we want (by mfr. prod. #), and then buy through http://www.buycomp.com BuyComp.com must simply have NO profit margin on these cases because we consistently by BELOW manufacturer's list (ie- less than Antec can - or will - sell them to us for). Summoner wrote: > rick hamell wrote: > > I've never been happy with Enlight cases personally. They're way > > to flimsy for me. The power supplies tend to leak a lot of RF also, which > > interferes with monitors and other computers. > > Enlight's a very consumer-directed company. Their offering of a > dozen or so different bezel designs is evidence of that. They cut > costs by using thin steel and not properly reinforcing it. > > > I use to use only Macase, but they discontinued the style I > > liked. The replacement style has a chubby front end that sticks out to > > far for me. Casedge has their LXsomething model (About $49+Shipping from > > Ark Technologies,) which I'm impressed with. Thick steel, no sharp > > pieces, it's all smoothed down (and dosen't collect finger prints!) The > > drive bays snap out and have one screw to fasten them down just in case. > > Minmaw is also a good brand, but they're a bit more expensive then > > Casedge. Their one major advantage is that they have a place in front to > > put a dust filter in front of the case fan. > > Macase... I don't suppose there's any relation to Mapower? Minmaw > and Casedge are new ones on me, but then I only go looking for a new > case maker when my current one(s) aren't up to my standards of > craftsmanship. > > Ever try Inwin? > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message --------------4E707FA40B7888586A380989 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="rbettle.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Roy Bettle Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rbettle.vcf" begin:vcard n:Bettle;Roy tel;work:(949) 452-1203 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.criterion-group.com org:Criterion Group, Inc. version:2.1 email;internet:rbettle@criterion-group.com title:President note:Businesses that depend on computers, depend on us. adr;quoted-printable:;;26895 Aliso Creek Road=0D=0ASuite B404;Aliso Viejo;CA;92656;USA fn:Bettle, Roy end:vcard --------------4E707FA40B7888586A380989-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 23 14:59:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4A4E1573C for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:59:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from summoner@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 11265 invoked by alias); 23 Jul 1999 21:59:37 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 11242 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jul 1999 21:59:36 -0000 Received: from edsl209.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.175.209) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 1999 21:59:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3798E5C7.3B35F8BD@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:59:35 -0700 From: Summoner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roy Bettle Cc: rick hamell , ML Duke , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First time for my own PC hardware References: <37983F26.A7F059B6@uswest.net> <37989EFD.B029641D@criterion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Roy Bettle wrote: > > You might also check into Antec: http://www.antec-inc.com/ > > We've had a great deal of luck with their cases (we've used them for about 4 > years now); rolled edges, no supports in stupid places, reliable and quiet > power supplies, etc. > > Hope it helps. The cases seem okay. The website has very little information about the case designs, though. I'm left with way too many questions. What concerns me is their use of what appears to be unprotected steel (it's shiny), odd case fan sizes, and a limited power supply wattage. No AC switch on the PS, either. > P.S. You may or may not want to actually buy from them. We typically use > their site to locate the case we want (by mfr. prod. #), and then buy through > http://www.buycomp.com BuyComp.com must simply have NO profit margin on these > cases because we consistently by BELOW manufacturer's list (ie- less than Antec > can - or will - sell them to us for). Buy.com's stock is supplied from Ingram Micro and a few other very large mail-order-only vendors. The vendors they use buy parts in huge quantities. They can mark up a sizable profit and still be well under list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message