From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 1 20:27:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from condor.coastalnet.com (condor.coastalnet.com [204.183.40.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C60114A12 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:27:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ut316@coastalnet.com) Received: from coastalnet.com (pm-rm3-102.coastalnet.com [204.183.44.102]) by condor.coastalnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07567 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 23:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A5104E.609E0924@coastalnet.com> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 23:28:14 -0400 From: Darryl Lyle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Support Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does freebsd support plug in play modems? For example Supra Express 28.8 pnpi? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 1 22:11:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from calamity.eng.ua.edu (calamity.eng.ua.edu [130.160.20.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E52D14C05 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkudrav@eng.ua.edu) Received: from ho05.eng.ua.edu (ho05.eng.ua.edu [130.160.40.5]) by calamity.eng.ua.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA04542; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 00:12:07 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 00:10:15 -0500 (CDT) From: David Kudrav To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Cc: kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: basic info on freebsd needed... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but only as a user and for limited applications. I am looking for some sort of comparison between free and open bsd. What are the advantages to each? Will software that runs under one run under the other with minimum effort (recompile) or will it be more complicated? What are the advantages of free over open? Open vs free? Freebsd vs linux? I'd really like to start running a unix or unix like OS on my PII and am most strongly considering freebsd, but don't feel that I know enough to do it. Everyone I know runs Linux or Windows... Finally, I'd like to keep a Win98 partition, but I'm pretty sure that is possible; please just confirm. Thanks, David ps, can I run freebsd on a 486/33? What is the min size hard disk/ram? ------------------------------------------------------------ David J. Kudrav E-mail: dkudrav@eng.ua.edu "Expect the movement of trains, engines or cars at any time, on any track, in either direction." -- Norfolk Southern Operating Rules, General Rules, Rule M ------------------------------------------------------------ Send no unsolicited commercial e-mail. (No Spam.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 1 22:24:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc2.occa.home.com (ha1.rdc2.occa.home.com [24.2.8.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83ACF14F04 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:24:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rbettle@criterion-group.com) Received: from criterion-group.com ([24.5.44.161]) by mail.rdc2.occa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990802052409.UMX23826.mail.rdc2.occa.home.com@criterion-group.com>; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:24:09 -0700 Message-ID: <37A52C30.6C91DF82@criterion-group.com> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 22:27:12 -0700 From: Roy Bettle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Kudrav Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------77A07D31423FEDBBD206529C" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------77A07D31423FEDBBD206529C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David; Quick follow-up from a fellow FreeBSD newbie: Recommendation: Buy the 4-CD set from Walnut Creek (cdrom.com). It comes with an *excellent* manual for the FreeBSD newbie. Linux v. FreeBSD: First of all, this isn't really a competition. FreeBSD and Linux have different development models and objectives for their respective OSes. Linux is after the Windoze space; FreeBSD is *all* about reliability, speed and power. Fastest, most efficient IP stack in the known universe, by the way. Software?: FreeBSD software may or may not run under Linux, but Linux software will most likely run under FreeBSD. The aforementioned manual does an excellent job of explaining why this is (has to do somewhat with FreeBSD having been around a lot longer). OpenBSD v. FreeBSD: There are probably as many similarities as there are differences. The development model for OpenBSD centers more around developing a rock-solid security system-type OS though (although FreeBSD isn't exactly a 90-lb weekling in the security space either). FreeBSD on a 486/33?: Sure, but why? Once again, the manual will help you understand the minimum config required, etc. Windoze partition?: Sure, but again, why? Also, one of the most incredible resources I've had provided to me by the people on this list is at http://www.freebsd.org/ports/ This is a list of the more than 2,500 FreeBSD-ported apps *with explanations for each*. Most cool bookmark. ;-) Hope it helps. RAB David Kudrav wrote: > Hi, > > I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have > some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly > less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but only > as a user and for limited applications. > > I am looking for some sort of comparison between free and open bsd. What > are the advantages to each? Will software that runs under one run under > the other with minimum effort (recompile) or will it be more complicated? > What are the advantages of free over open? Open vs free? Freebsd vs > linux? > > I'd really like to start running a unix or unix like OS on my PII and am > most strongly considering freebsd, but don't feel that I know enough to do > it. Everyone I know runs Linux or Windows... > > Finally, I'd like to keep a Win98 partition, but I'm pretty sure that is > possible; please just confirm. > > Thanks, > > David > > ps, can I run freebsd on a 486/33? What is the min size hard disk/ram? > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David J. Kudrav E-mail: dkudrav@eng.ua.edu > "Expect the movement of trains, engines or cars at any time, > on any track, in either direction." -- Norfolk Southern > Operating Rules, General Rules, Rule M > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Send no unsolicited commercial e-mail. (No Spam.) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message --------------77A07D31423FEDBBD206529C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="rbettle.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Roy Bettle Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rbettle.vcf" begin:vcard n:Bettle;Roy tel;work:(949) 452-1203 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.criterion-group.com org:Criterion Group, Inc. version:2.1 email;internet:rbettle@criterion-group.com title:President note:Businesses that depend on computers, depend on us. adr;quoted-printable:;;26895 Aliso Creek Road=0D=0ASuite B404;Aliso Viejo;CA;92656;USA fn:Bettle, Roy end:vcard --------------77A07D31423FEDBBD206529C-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 1 23:12: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from topsecret.net (gill.apk.net [207.54.148.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 910E114BF9 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 23:11:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gill@topsecret.net) Received: from stumpy by topsecret.net with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 02:09:34 -0400 From: "James Gill" To: "Roy Bettle" , "David Kudrav" Cc: , Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 02:09:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <37A52C30.6C91DF82@criterion-group.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-Return-Path: gill@topsecret.net Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org While I am certainly a big FreeBSD advocate, if you run Solaris daily, you would be interested to know that Sun gives away the OS for noncommercial purposes for the cost of the media plus shipping (I ordered a copy of Solaris7 on Monday, put $16 on my creditcard, and had it Wednsday). I won't try to compare the differences between them, I'm not knowledgeable enough to do that, but I will remind you that a computer is a tool you should use it in the way that best works for you. I don't know what Solaris will do on your 486, but FreeBSD runs great on my 486 w 16MB RAM (I'm not running any x-win business, just commandline stuff). Personally, I like FreeBSD better for nontechnical reasons, but when the only thing in your toolbox is a hammer, the whole world can become a nail... cheers, --gill -> -> David; -> -> Quick follow-up from a fellow FreeBSD newbie: -> -> Recommendation: Buy the 4-CD set from Walnut Creek -> (cdrom.com). It comes -> with an *excellent* manual for the FreeBSD newbie. -> -> Linux v. FreeBSD: First of all, this isn't really a -> competition. FreeBSD and -> Linux have different development models and objectives for -> their respective -> OSes. Linux is after the Windoze space; FreeBSD is *all* about -> reliability, -> speed and power. Fastest, most efficient IP stack in the known -> universe, by -> the way. -> -> Software?: FreeBSD software may or may not run under Linux, but Linux -> software will most likely run under FreeBSD. The -> aforementioned manual does -> an excellent job of explaining why this is (has to do somewhat -> with FreeBSD -> having been around a lot longer). -> -> OpenBSD v. FreeBSD: There are probably as many similarities as -> there are -> differences. The development model for OpenBSD centers more -> around developing -> a rock-solid security system-type OS though (although FreeBSD -> isn't exactly a -> 90-lb weekling in the security space either). -> -> FreeBSD on a 486/33?: Sure, but why? Once again, the manual -> will help you -> understand the minimum config required, etc. -> -> Windoze partition?: Sure, but again, why? -> -> Also, one of the most incredible resources I've had provided to -> me by the -> people on this list is at http://www.freebsd.org/ports/ This -> is a list of the -> more than 2,500 FreeBSD-ported apps *with explanations for -> each*. Most cool -> bookmark. -> -> ;-) -> -> Hope it helps. -> -> RAB -> -> -> David Kudrav wrote: -> -> > Hi, -> > -> > I am considering running freebsd and also considering -> openbsd, but have -> > some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, -> and slightly -> > less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost -> daily, but only -> > as a user and for limited applications. -> > -> > I am looking for some sort of comparison between free and -> open bsd. What -> > are the advantages to each? Will software that runs under -> one run under -> > the other with minimum effort (recompile) or will it be more -> complicated? -> > What are the advantages of free over open? Open vs free? Freebsd vs -> > linux? -> > -> > I'd really like to start running a unix or unix like OS on my -> PII and am -> > most strongly considering freebsd, but don't feel that I know -> enough to do -> > it. Everyone I know runs Linux or Windows... -> > -> > Finally, I'd like to keep a Win98 partition, but I'm pretty -> sure that is -> > possible; please just confirm. -> > -> > Thanks, -> > -> > David -> > -> > ps, can I run freebsd on a 486/33? What is the min size hard -> disk/ram? -> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 2:47:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B78F115038 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 02:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk) Received: from fs3.rncm.ac.uk ([193.63.96.102] helo=rncm.ac.uk) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 11BEg5-000HZu-00; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:46:41 +0100 Received: from RNCM-FS3/SpoolDir by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 2 Aug 99 10:46:44 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by RNCM-FS3 (Mercury 1.44); 2 Aug 99 10:46:25 GMT Received: from selene (193.63.96.96) by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 2 Aug 99 10:46:23 GMT From: "Peter McGarvey" To: "David Kudrav" , Cc: Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:46:22 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hi, > > I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have > some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly > less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but only > as a user and for limited applications. snippage... I lookafter a Sun Server running the SPARC version of Solaris. I also got the free Solaris so I could try it on a PC. SPARC Solaris runs fine on a Dual 400MHz SPARC-II system. x86 Solaris ran like a dog on a P233. Never felt the need to look at OpenBSD... As for Linux/FreeBSD.... I've just setup a machine at home running DOS/Win98/FreeBSD 3.2/RedHat Linux 6.0. IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to install. However, when it comes to setting up X, Linux is nicely setup by default - with FreeBSD it takes a bit of effort but appears to be faster. As for hardware for FreeBSD.... My little development network at home is based on a FreeBSD server running Samba, Apache and MySQL. It outperforms a P233 running Windows NT. Which is not what you'd expect when it's a 486SX2-50 with 16MB RAM. So, FreeBSD or Linux? Well, what do you want to do with this machine? For server type work go with FreeBSD. For desktop type work go with Linux. TTFN, FNORD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 4:56:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from diogenes.ionet.net (diogenes.ionet.net [38.193.50.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 422D4150A8 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 04:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malaclypse@diogenes.ionet.net) Received: from localhost (malaclypse@localhost) by diogenes.ionet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01414; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 01:30:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from malaclypse@diogenes.ionet.net) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 01:30:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Val Kilmer To: Darryl Lyle Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Support In-Reply-To: <37A5104E.609E0924@coastalnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Plug and play modems are supported, as long as the /dev exists. However, PCI modems are not. Make sure you have an ISA modem before you get all modem happy. :) Cory. On Sun, 1 Aug 1999, Darryl Lyle wrote: > Does freebsd support plug in play modems? For example Supra Express 28.8 > pnpi? > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 10:11:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bootes.ebtech.net (bootes.ebtech.net [142.250.0.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACCF14F2D for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@geeky1.ebtech.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by bootes.ebtech.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with UUCP id MAA13484; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:38:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (paul@localhost) by geeky1.ebtech.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA08183; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:20:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:20:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Anderson To: Peter McGarvey Cc: David Kudrav , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Peter McGarvey wrote: > IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to > install. > The big problem I had with FreeBSD is that very little documentation comes with it on the CD. So, as a result I had the exact opposite experience you did. I found that the system was essentially undocumented(IME, the FreeBSD Handbook only briefly glazes over each of it's topics and has very little detailed documentation), and very much different from what I was used to. It took a remarkable amount of struggle just to get syslogd to spew log messages to one of the tty's, I still have no idea why the line wouldn't work at the bottom of syslogd.conf and would work at the top. IMHO, FreeBSD could sure use some better documentation. It took me days just to figure out that the device for the NE2000 ether card is ed0 - not a whisp of a clue in the docs. TTYL! --- Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group http://www.sar-net.com/slug http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul "This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy." -Martin Luther on Copernicus' theory that the Earth orbits the sun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 10:54:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f67.hotmail.com [207.82.251.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DBDE14CB1 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 81480 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 1999 17:54:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990802175404.81479.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.160.92.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:54:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.92.86] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: Freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:54:04 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org NO!!!!! Don't get the Cd-ROMS from alnut Creek. Instead goto: http://www.indelible-blue.com/. You can get a set of FreeBSD (the 4-CD set), +500 page book on how to use FreeBSD all for $30. It's the best Deal on the net. It's what got me started >David; > >Quick follow-up from a fellow FreeBSD newbie: > >Recommendation: Buy the 4-CD set from Walnut Creek (cdrom.com). It comes >with an *excellent* manual for the FreeBSD newbie. > >Linux v. FreeBSD: First of all, this isn't really a competition. FreeBSD >and >Linux have different development models and objectives for their respective >OSes. Linux is after the Windoze space; FreeBSD is *all* about >reliability, >speed and power. Fastest, most efficient IP stack in the known universe, >by >the way. > >Software?: FreeBSD software may or may not run under Linux, but Linux >software will most likely run under FreeBSD. The aforementioned manual >does >an excellent job of explaining why this is (has to do somewhat with FreeBSD >having been around a lot longer). > >OpenBSD v. FreeBSD: There are probably as many similarities as there are >differences. The development model for OpenBSD centers more around >developing >a rock-solid security system-type OS though (although FreeBSD isn't exactly >a >90-lb weekling in the security space either). > >FreeBSD on a 486/33?: Sure, but why? Once again, the manual will help you >understand the minimum config required, etc. > >Windoze partition?: Sure, but again, why? > >Also, one of the most incredible resources I've had provided to me by the >people on this list is at http://www.freebsd.org/ports/ This is a list of >the >more than 2,500 FreeBSD-ported apps *with explanations for each*. Most >cool >bookmark. > >;-) > >Hope it helps. > >RAB > > >David Kudrav wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have > > some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly > > less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but >only > > as a user and for limited applications. > > > > I am looking for some sort of comparison between free and open bsd. >What > > are the advantages to each? Will software that runs under one run under > > the other with minimum effort (recompile) or will it be more >complicated? > > What are the advantages of free over open? Open vs free? Freebsd vs > > linux? > > > > I'd really like to start running a unix or unix like OS on my PII and am > > most strongly considering freebsd, but don't feel that I know enough to >do > > it. Everyone I know runs Linux or Windows... > > > > Finally, I'd like to keep a Win98 partition, but I'm pretty sure that is > > possible; please just confirm. > > > > Thanks, > > > > David > > > > ps, can I run freebsd on a 486/33? What is the min size hard disk/ram? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > David J. Kudrav E-mail: dkudrav@eng.ua.edu > > "Expect the movement of trains, engines or cars at any time, > > on any track, in either direction." -- Norfolk Southern > > Operating Rules, General Rules, Rule M > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Send no unsolicited commercial e-mail. (No Spam.) > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ><< rbettle.vcf >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 11: 1: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f55.hotmail.com [207.82.251.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C1B7414BDC for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:00:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 48110 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 1999 18:00:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990802180024.48109.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.160.92.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:00:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.92.86] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: Freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:00:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi I did the same thing and got Solaris7. I think "It sucks". The reason why I say solaris7 sucks is because it has less "Hardware support" (especially compared to FreeBSD). Also, Solaris take a *shit-load* of memory to run on a "Non-Commercial" OS. you need at least a p166 with 48-64MB of ram to get some real use out of it. I have solaris7, and it's gonna sit on my shelf next to BeOS 3.1 till the end of time :P (Hell, even BeOS is better). -cosmic-665 > >While I am certainly a big FreeBSD advocate, if you run Solaris daily, you >would be interested to know that Sun gives away the OS for noncommercial >purposes for the cost of the media plus shipping (I ordered a copy of >Solaris7 on Monday, put $16 on my creditcard, and had it Wednsday). > >I won't try to compare the differences between them, I'm not knowledgeable >enough to do that, but I will remind you that a computer is a tool you >should use it in the way that best works for you. > >I don't know what Solaris will do on your 486, but FreeBSD runs great on my >486 w 16MB RAM (I'm not running any x-win business, just commandline >stuff). > >Personally, I like FreeBSD better for nontechnical reasons, but when the >only thing in your toolbox is a hammer, the whole world can become a >nail... > >cheers, >--gill > >-> >-> David; >-> >-> Quick follow-up from a fellow FreeBSD newbie: >-> >-> Recommendation: Buy the 4-CD set from Walnut Creek >-> (cdrom.com). It comes >-> with an *excellent* manual for the FreeBSD newbie. >-> >-> Linux v. FreeBSD: First of all, this isn't really a >-> competition. FreeBSD and >-> Linux have different development models and objectives for >-> their respective >-> OSes. Linux is after the Windoze space; FreeBSD is *all* about >-> reliability, >-> speed and power. Fastest, most efficient IP stack in the known >-> universe, by >-> the way. >-> >-> Software?: FreeBSD software may or may not run under Linux, but Linux >-> software will most likely run under FreeBSD. The >-> aforementioned manual does >-> an excellent job of explaining why this is (has to do somewhat >-> with FreeBSD >-> having been around a lot longer). >-> >-> OpenBSD v. FreeBSD: There are probably as many similarities as >-> there are >-> differences. The development model for OpenBSD centers more >-> around developing >-> a rock-solid security system-type OS though (although FreeBSD >-> isn't exactly a >-> 90-lb weekling in the security space either). >-> >-> FreeBSD on a 486/33?: Sure, but why? Once again, the manual >-> will help you >-> understand the minimum config required, etc. >-> >-> Windoze partition?: Sure, but again, why? >-> >-> Also, one of the most incredible resources I've had provided to >-> me by the >-> people on this list is at http://www.freebsd.org/ports/ This >-> is a list of the >-> more than 2,500 FreeBSD-ported apps *with explanations for >-> each*. Most cool >-> bookmark. >-> >-> ;-) >-> >-> Hope it helps. >-> >-> RAB >-> >-> >-> David Kudrav wrote: >-> >-> > Hi, >-> > >-> > I am considering running freebsd and also considering >-> openbsd, but have >-> > some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, >-> and slightly >-> > less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost >-> daily, but only >-> > as a user and for limited applications. >-> > >-> > I am looking for some sort of comparison between free and >-> open bsd. What >-> > are the advantages to each? Will software that runs under >-> one run under >-> > the other with minimum effort (recompile) or will it be more >-> complicated? >-> > What are the advantages of free over open? Open vs free? Freebsd >vs >-> > linux? >-> > >-> > I'd really like to start running a unix or unix like OS on my >-> PII and am >-> > most strongly considering freebsd, but don't feel that I know >-> enough to do >-> > it. Everyone I know runs Linux or Windows... >-> > >-> > Finally, I'd like to keep a Win98 partition, but I'm pretty >-> sure that is >-> > possible; please just confirm. >-> > >-> > Thanks, >-> > >-> > David >-> > >-> > ps, can I run freebsd on a 486/33? What is the min size hard >-> disk/ram? >-> > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 11:14: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f135.hotmail.com [207.82.251.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE3F014BDC for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 58743 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 1999 18:13:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.160.92.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:13:49 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.92.86] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NEWBIE ALERT!!! Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:13:49 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, Goto: Indelible-blue "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying FreeBSD from walnut Creek with no documentation. good luck -Cosmic-665 >From: Paul Anderson >To: Peter McGarvey >CC: David Kudrav , >freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG,kudra001@bama.ua.edu >Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... >Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:20:48 -0400 (EDT) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 02 10:11:16 1999 >Received: from [204.216.27.18] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id >MHotMailB96F1C310109D82197C0CCD81B125A3A0; Mon Aug 02 10:11:16 1999 >Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538)id 2D6CB15182; Mon, >2 Aug 1999 10:11:32 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])by hub.freebsd.org >(Postfix) with SMTPid E756D1CD667; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:11:31 -0700 >(PDT)(envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies) >Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:11:31 >-0700 >Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org >Received: from bootes.ebtech.net (bootes.ebtech.net [142.250.0.12])by >hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACCF14F2Dfor >; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:11:28 -0700 >(PDT)(envelope-from paul@geeky1.ebtech.net) >Received: (from uucp@localhost) by bootes.ebtech.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with >UUCP id MAA13484; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:38:29 -0400 >Received: from localhost (paul@localhost)by geeky1.ebtech.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) >with SMTP id MAA08183;Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:20:49 -0400 >In-Reply-To: >Message-ID: >Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Precedence: bulk > >On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Peter McGarvey wrote: > > > IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to > > install. > > >The big problem I had with FreeBSD is that very little documentation comes >with it on the CD. So, as a result I had the exact opposite experience >you did. I found that the system was essentially undocumented(IME, the >FreeBSD Handbook only briefly glazes over each of it's topics and has very >little detailed documentation), and very much different from what I was >used to. It took a remarkable amount of struggle just to get syslogd to >spew log messages to one of the tty's, I still have no idea why the line >wouldn't work at the bottom of syslogd.conf and would work at the top. > >IMHO, FreeBSD could sure use some better documentation. It took me days >just to figure out that the device for the NE2000 ether card is ed0 - not >a whisp of a clue in the docs. TTYL! > > >--- >Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac >paul@geeky1.ebtech.net >Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group >http://www.sar-net.com/slug >http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul >"This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy." > -Martin Luther on Copernicus' theory that the Earth orbits the sun > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 11:28:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (pau-amma.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6955C14C2B for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:28:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA26776; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199908021828.LAA26776@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >From: "Cosmic 665" >Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:13:49 PDT >look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" >when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the >walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying FreeBSD >from walnut Creek with no documentation. The book in question has, quite prominently printed along the lower edge of the front cover (in type that's around 36 points): Walnut Creek CDROM Books Just a reality check, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 11:35: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 495FD14C8D for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:35:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 68900 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Aug 1999 18:34:46 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:34:46 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: Cosmic 665 Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! Message-ID: <19990802113446.C68714@dub.net> References: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com>; from Cosmic 665 on Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 11:13:49AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is it just me or has this product suddenly dissappeared? -Bill On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 11:13:49AM -0700, Cosmic 665 wrote: > If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, Goto: > > Indelible-blue > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > > look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" > when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the > walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying FreeBSD > from walnut Creek with no documentation. > > > good luck > -Cosmic-665 > > -- -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 11:42:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.va.home.com (ha1.rdc1.va.home.com [24.2.32.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA24F14C8D for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:42:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david32@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.2.56.221]) by mail.rdc1.va.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990802184113.IDDR22019.mail.rdc1.va.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:41:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37A5E614.527779B2@home.com> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:40:20 -0400 From: David Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! References: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> <19990802113446.C68714@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I didn't see it there either. However, I must say that when I ordered the walnut creek freebsd 2.2.5 with the book, I found it to be a great deal. the book is full of information on how to configure freebsd. whether or not you can find other things cheaper elsewhere, it was still a good deal, and I don't regret spending the $60 that I spent Bill Swingle wrote: > > Is it just me or has this product suddenly dissappeared? > > -Bill > > On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 11:13:49AM -0700, Cosmic 665 wrote: > > If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, Goto: > > > > Indelible-blue > > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > > > > look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" > > when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the > > walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying FreeBSD > > from walnut Creek with no documentation. > > > > > > good luck > > -Cosmic-665 > > > > > > -- > -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com > -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 11:45: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2CC1E14C8D for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:44:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 69000 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Aug 1999 18:44:45 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:44:45 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: David Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! Message-ID: <19990802114444.A68976@dub.net> References: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> <19990802113446.C68714@dub.net> <37A5E614.527779B2@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <37A5E614.527779B2@home.com>; from David on Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 02:40:20PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The other things is: ...buying from Walnut Creek helps to support the FreeBSD project directly. Go figure. -Bill On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 02:40:20PM -0400, David wrote: > I didn't see it there either. However, I must say that when I ordered > the walnut creek > freebsd 2.2.5 with the book, I found it to be a great deal. the book is > full of information > on how to configure freebsd. whether or not you can find other things > cheaper elsewhere, > it was still a good deal, and I don't regret spending the $60 that I > spent > > Bill Swingle wrote: > > > > Is it just me or has this product suddenly dissappeared? > > > > -Bill > > > > On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 11:13:49AM -0700, Cosmic 665 wrote: > > > If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, Goto: > > > > > > Indelible-blue > > > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > > > > > > look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" > > > when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the > > > walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying FreeBSD > > > from walnut Creek with no documentation. > > > > > > > > > good luck > > > -Cosmic-665 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com > > -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 11:52: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from icmct.uvt.ro (icmct.uvt.ro [193.226.14.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E789914CC6 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:51:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from baroti@icmct.uvt.ro) Received: from localhost (baroti@localhost) by icmct.uvt.ro (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA54279 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:44:58 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from baroti@icmct.uvt.ro) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:44:58 +0300 (EEST) From: Istvan & Agra Baroti Reply-To: Istvan & Agra Baroti Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: need short unix program In-Reply-To: <199908021828.LAA26776@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org help me! i want to make a program which allow to copy a file: /usr/myname/webcamera.jpg to a file: /usr/myname/mydirectory/current_date.jpg AT EVERY 10 SECONDS. The current_date string must include HH/MM/.ss because I want to make an archive directory /usr/myname/mydirectory/ with photos taken every 10 seconds at the 11 August Solar Eclipse with a webcamera on our Unix FreeBSD 3.1 server. The webcamera produces a webcamera.jpg file EVERY TIME WITH THE SAME NAME: webcamera.jpg AND OVERWRITE IT. I WANT TO SAVE THESE pictues/FILES WITH NEW NAME: current_date.jpg but I don't know how to extract a strig from the date command. please help. #!/bin/sh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 11:52:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.va.home.com (ha1.rdc1.va.home.com [24.2.32.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B53814CC6 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:52:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david32@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.2.56.221]) by mail.rdc1.va.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990802185148.IEAM22019.mail.rdc1.va.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:51:48 -0700 Message-ID: <37A5E890.D3825C24@home.com> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:50:56 -0400 From: David Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! References: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> <19990802113446.C68714@dub.net> <37A5E614.527779B2@home.com> <19990802114444.A68976@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org and it should be supported. it is a high quality operating system. very stable, lots of ported applications, etc! Bill Swingle wrote: > > The other things is: > > > ...buying from Walnut Creek helps to support the FreeBSD project > directly. Go figure. > > > -Bill > > On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 02:40:20PM -0400, David wrote: > > I didn't see it there either. However, I must say that when I ordered > > the walnut creek > > freebsd 2.2.5 with the book, I found it to be a great deal. the book is > > full of information > > on how to configure freebsd. whether or not you can find other things > > cheaper elsewhere, > > it was still a good deal, and I don't regret spending the $60 that I > > spent > > > > Bill Swingle wrote: > > > > > > Is it just me or has this product suddenly dissappeared? > > > > > > -Bill > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 11:13:49AM -0700, Cosmic 665 wrote: > > > > If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, Goto: > > > > > > > > Indelible-blue > > > > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > > > > > > > > look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" > > > > when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the > > > > walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying FreeBSD > > > > from walnut Creek with no documentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > -Cosmic-665 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com > > > -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > -- > -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com > -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 12:18:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from icmct.uvt.ro (icmct.uvt.ro [193.226.14.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA1B14C3A for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:18:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from baroti@icmct.uvt.ro) Received: from localhost (baroti@localhost) by icmct.uvt.ro (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA54528; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:11:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from baroti@icmct.uvt.ro) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:11:00 +0300 (EEST) From: Istvan & Agra Baroti To: Tani Hosokawa Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: need short unix program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Tani Hosokawa wrote: > cron job... crontab doesn't repeat processes lasting less than 1 minute. and I need to repeat the copy process every 10 seconds. yours, baroti To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 12:54:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.va.home.com (ha1.rdc1.va.home.com [24.2.32.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65CA14C1E for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david32@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.2.56.221]) by mail.rdc1.va.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990802195327.IJDX22019.mail.rdc1.va.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:53:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37A5F704.4C72A521@home.com> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 15:52:36 -0400 From: David Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: need short unix program Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org try this.. work with the code a bit. it worked on HP-UX on saving output data under date/time filenames here is how I did it: tmp=`date +%Y%m%d` mv report.txt newname.$tmp help me! i want to make a program which allow to copy a file: /usr/myname/webcamera.jpg to a file: /usr/myname/mydirectory/current_date.jpg AT EVERY 10 SECONDS. The current_date string must include HH/MM/.ss because I want to make an archive directory /usr/myname/mydirectory/ with photos taken every 10 seconds at the 11 August Solar Eclipse with a webcamera on our Unix FreeBSD 3.1 server. The webcamera produces a webcamera.jpg file EVERY TIME WITH THE SAME NAME: webcamera.jpg AND OVERWRITE IT. I WANT TO SAVE THESE pictues/FILES WITH NEW NAME: current_date.jpg but I don't know how to extract a strig from the date command. please help. #!/bin/sh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 14:52:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97F414C8B for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:52:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id OAA02166; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:48:57 -0700 (PDT) From: rick hamell To: Cosmic 665 Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! In-Reply-To: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, Goto: > > Indelible-blue > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > > look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" > when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the > walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying FreeBSD > from walnut Creek with no documentation. Except that the money dosen't go back into the project does it? I prefer to pay the extra $10 and have it do something useful other then line somebodies pockets. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 15:54:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f257.hotmail.com [207.82.251.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 947E31531D for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 80691 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 1999 22:54:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990802225404.80690.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.160.92.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 15:54:03 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.92.86] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 15:54:03 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It was the same book from Walnut Creek, just $40 less. You may have to email them to see if they got it. When I ordered it from them (a year ago) they shipped with 2.2.6 (it said on the site), but Instead I got 2.2.7. It's a good deal from indelible blue if you can get it at 1/2 the price >I didn't see it there either. However, I must say that when I ordered >the walnut creek >freebsd 2.2.5 with the book, I found it to be a great deal. the book is >full of information >on how to configure freebsd. whether or not you can find other things >cheaper elsewhere, >it was still a good deal, and I don't regret spending the $60 that I >spent > >Bill Swingle wrote: > > > > Is it just me or has this product suddenly dissappeared? > > > > -Bill > > > > On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 11:13:49AM -0700, Cosmic 665 wrote: > > > If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, >Goto: > > > > > > Indelible-blue > > > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > > > > > > look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" > > > when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + >the > > > walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying >FreeBSD > > > from walnut Creek with no documentation. > > > > > > > > > good luck > > > -Cosmic-665 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com > > -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo >Picasso > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 16: 1:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F5E14C36 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:01:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jam@jam.rb.org) Received: from ganymede.kb6rxe.org. (adsl-216-103-59-95.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [216.103.59.95]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11588; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:56:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Joel Mosher X-Sender: jam@ganymede.kb6rxe.org To: Cosmic 665 Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! In-Reply-To: <19990802225404.80690.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org go to http://www.interactcd.com They are selling The Complete FreeBSD with disks for $40. I don't know if they ship. I got mine at the store. Joel Mosher Box 492 La Canada, CA 91012 EMail: jam@jam.rb.org On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Cosmic 665 wrote: > It was the same book from Walnut Creek, just $40 less. You may have to > email them to see if they got it. When I ordered it from them (a year ago) > they shipped with 2.2.6 (it said on the site), but Instead I got 2.2.7. > It's a good deal from indelible blue if you can get it at 1/2 the price > > > > > >I didn't see it there either. However, I must say that when I ordered > >the walnut creek > >freebsd 2.2.5 with the book, I found it to be a great deal. the book is > >full of information > >on how to configure freebsd. whether or not you can find other things > >cheaper elsewhere, > >it was still a good deal, and I don't regret spending the $60 that I > >spent > > > >Bill Swingle wrote: > > > > > > Is it just me or has this product suddenly dissappeared? > > > > > > -Bill > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 11:13:49AM -0700, Cosmic 665 wrote: > > > > If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, > >Goto: > > > > > > > > Indelible-blue > > > > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > > > > > > > > look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" > > > > when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + > >the > > > > walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... It's way better than buying > >FreeBSD > > > > from walnut Creek with no documentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > good luck > > > > -Cosmic-665 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -=| Bill Swingle - unfurl@dub.net - unfurl@freebsd.org - bill@cdrom.com > > > -=| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo > >Picasso > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 19:39: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A396B151CA for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 19:38:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA27858; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:07:25 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA63628; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:07:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:07:25 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Peter McGarvey Cc: David Kudrav , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Message-ID: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Peter McGarvey on Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 10:46:22AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 2 August 1999 at 10:46:22 +0100, Peter McGarvey wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have >> some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly >> less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but only >> as a user and for limited applications. > > snippage... > > > I lookafter a Sun Server running the SPARC version of Solaris. I also got > the free Solaris so I could try it on a PC. SPARC Solaris runs fine on a > Dual 400MHz SPARC-II system. x86 Solaris ran like a dog on a P233. > > Never felt the need to look at OpenBSD... > > As for Linux/FreeBSD.... > > I've just setup a machine at home running DOS/Win98/FreeBSD 3.2/RedHat Linux > 6.0. IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to > install. However, when it comes to setting up X, Linux is nicely setup by > default - with FreeBSD it takes a bit of effort but appears to be > faster. Interesting. What makes it easier? I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it pretty well. Admittedly, I haven't spent days trying to install, but I don't think I should have to. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 20:16:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C203A14CAE for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zen@buddhist.com) Received: from WhizKid (rh16.bfm.org [208.18.213.209]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id XAA02685; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990802221652.009b4ec0@mail.bfm.org> X-Sender: stanislav@mail.bfm.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 22:16:52 -0500 To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! In-Reply-To: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:13 02-08-1999 PDT, Cosmic 665 wrote: >If your a FreeBSD Newbie Looking to get FreeBSD and documentation, Goto: > > Indelible-blue > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > >look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" >when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the >walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... I'm going to assume this is a joke. There is no such thing on that page. > It's way better than buying FreeBSD >from walnut Creek with no documentation. Is it? Even if what you are saying were true, Walnut Creek passes part of the money paid back to the FreeBSD project. So, buying from WC, you are supporting FreeBSD. Buying from IB, you are only supporting Indelible Blue. I wouldn't call that better, let alone "way" better. Adam --- Gracula v3.0 just released. Don't miss it. Visit Count Gracula's Gallery: http://www.whizkidtech.net/gcl/gallery/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 20:44:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B884D14A2D for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:44:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanderh@ecf.toronto.edu) Received: from localhost.nowhere (ppp18363.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.130.43]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29048; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.nowhere (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA20258; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:44:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:44:01 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: the_hermit665@hotmail.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! Message-ID: <19990802234401.A20203@mad> References: <19990802181350.58742.qmail@hotmail.com> <3.0.6.32.19990802221652.009b4ec0@mail.bfm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990802221652.009b4ec0@mail.bfm.org>; from G. Adam Stanislav on Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 10:16:52PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 10:16:52PM -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > Is it? Even if what you are saying were true, Walnut Creek passes part of > the money paid back to the FreeBSD project. So, buying from WC, you are Actually, currently, all profits from the sales of CDs goto the FreeBSD project. I'm not sure exactly what this means, but I suppose it's reasonably self-explanatory. Of course, as someone else pointed-out, the CDs (previously) sold by Indelible Blue came from Walnut Creek. Walnut Creek has experimented in the past with lowering the price of their CDs and found that sales actually decrease. -- This is my .signature which gets appended to the end of my messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 21:21:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D615151C7 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:21:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@hons.cs.usyd.edu.au) Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:20:51 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" In-Reply-To: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Aug 3, 99 12:07:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 804 Message-Id: <19990803042118.7D615151C7@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no > difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in > installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's > the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it > pretty well. You wrote the book, after all :) (Which includes an excellent chapter titled "XFree86 configuration in depth". I didn't read this chapter when I did the initial install, but when I did a major upgrade I read it so I could "tweak" my configuration. Very interesting stuff. I just wish the @%^#!&*$ manufacturers would provide all the data about their products!) Getting back on topic, I recently installed FreeBSD on a PC here at uni, and was able to use the same XF86Config that Linux had been using. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 2 21:28:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from msslpop1.mssl.uswest.net (msslpop1.mssl.uswest.net [207.225.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8DB741522B for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:28:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjf@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 22237 invoked by alias); 3 Aug 1999 04:27:56 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 22230 invoked by uid 0); 3 Aug 1999 04:27:55 -0000 Received: from dialupd114.mssl.uswest.net (HELO pop.mssl.uswest.net) (209.180.185.114) by msslpop1.mssl.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 1999 04:27:55 -0000 Message-ID: <37A67078.EED39CB3@pop.mssl.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 22:30:48 -0600 From: Reply-To: gjf@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Update link Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The link in "Resources for newbies" under the heading "Learning about FreeBSD", called download instructions is broken. It goes to this address: http://www.lemis.com/handbook/what-to-download.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 1: 4:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659FF14C0D for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk) Received: from fs3.rncm.ac.uk ([193.63.96.102] helo=rncm.ac.uk) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 11BZXw-0004ny-00; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:03:40 +0100 Received: from RNCM-FS3/SpoolDir by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 09:03:42 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by RNCM-FS3 (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 09:03:22 GMT Received: from selene (193.63.96.96) by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 09:03:18 GMT From: "Peter McGarvey" To: "Greg Lehey" Cc: "David Kudrav" , , Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:03:17 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> Hi, > >> > >> I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have > >> some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, > and slightly > >> less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost > daily, but only > >> as a user and for limited applications. > > > > snippage... > > more snippage > > I've just setup a machine at home running DOS/Win98/FreeBSD > 3.2/RedHat Linux > > 6.0. IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to > > install. However, when it comes to setting up X, Linux is > nicely setup by > > default - with FreeBSD it takes a bit of effort but appears to be > > faster. > > Interesting. What makes it easier? > > I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no > difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in > installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's > the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it > pretty well. Admittedly, I haven't spent days trying to install, but > I don't think I should have to. > > Greg What makes it easier? Well, here is my experience with RedHat Linux 6.0.... I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. When my machine rebooted I was straight into X with gnome/enlightenment all nicely setup. And now my experience with FreeBSD.... I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. I didn't setup X as the last time I tried it caused the whole installation to crap-out. When my machine rebooted I was straight a wonderful command prompt. I then launched sysinstall again and configured my X server and my desktop. Then I had to wade through the ports and once I'd worked out what I needed it took about three hours to get in all compiled and installed. So, even though I hate to place FreeBSD behind Linux, in this instance I'm affraid Linux wins. TTFN, FNORD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 1:47:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B70914C44 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:47:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk) Received: from fs3.rncm.ac.uk ([193.63.96.102] helo=rncm.ac.uk) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 11BaDh-0007Pm-00; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:46:49 +0100 Received: from RNCM-FS3/SpoolDir by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 09:46:51 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by RNCM-FS3 (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 09:46:23 GMT Received: from selene (193.63.96.96) by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 09:46:15 GMT From: "Peter McGarvey" To: "Paul Anderson" Cc: "David Kudrav" , , Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:46:14 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to > > install. > > > The big problem I had with FreeBSD is that very little documentation comes > with it on the CD. So, as a result I had the exact opposite experience > you did. I found that the system was essentially undocumented(IME, the > FreeBSD Handbook only briefly glazes over each of it's topics and has very > little detailed documentation), and very much different from what I was > used to. It took a remarkable amount of struggle just to get syslogd to > spew log messages to one of the tty's, I still have no idea why the line > wouldn't work at the bottom of syslogd.conf and would work at the top. > > IMHO, FreeBSD could sure use some better documentation. It took me days > just to figure out that the device for the NE2000 ether card is ed0 - not > a whisp of a clue in the docs. TTYL! Okay, I have two modes of operation. At work I'm online with a nice ATM connection to my LAN. At home I'm totally of offline. In work mode I've found I have a mine of information about FreeBSD and Linux. Linux definately has more docs. However, on a couple of occasions I've found something that appears to be useful but turns out useless because it skims right over what I'm having problems with. With FreeBSD I usally find my answers fairly quickly by searching the Mailing List so I seldom go looking for prober doc. On the whole I've found both FreeBSD and Linux have enough online resources to keep me going. In home mode the picture is somewhat different. Like I said I'm totally off-line so I usually have to resort to books. When I actually purchased my first copy of FreeBSD I also got a book - The Complete FreeBSD by Greg Lehey. When I purchased my copy of RedHat it came with 2 books. However, the FreeBSD book is actually useful - it's over a year old now but I still use it all the time. The RedHat books were useful for about 2 days. I suppose I could always buy another Linux book but I Linux is already the expensive choice: FreeBSD with Book £28.00 RedHat with Books £40.00 TTFN, FNORD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 1:48:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AFB514C44 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:48:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA29177; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:18:22 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA64905; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:18:20 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:18:20 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Peter McGarvey Cc: David Kudrav , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Message-ID: <19990803181819.B62948@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Peter McGarvey on Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 09:03:17AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Tuesday, 3 August 1999 at 9:03:17 +0100, Peter McGarvey wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, >>>> but have some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and >>>> Solaris, and slightly less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or >>>> Solaris almost daily, but only as a user and for limited >>>> applications. > >>> I've just setup a machine at home running DOS/Win98/FreeBSD >>> 3.2/RedHat Linux 6.0. IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, >>> and is much easier to install. However, when it comes to setting >>> up X, Linux is nicely setup by default - with FreeBSD it takes a >>> bit of effort but appears to be faster. >> Interesting. What makes it easier? >> >> I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no >> difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in >> installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's >> the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it >> pretty well. Admittedly, I haven't spent days trying to install, but >> I don't think I should have to. > > What makes it easier? Well, here is my experience with RedHat Linux 6.0.... > > I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. > When my machine rebooted I was straight into X with gnome/enlightenment all > nicely setup. > > And now my experience with FreeBSD.... > > I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. > I didn't setup X as the last time I tried it caused the whole installation > to crap-out. When my machine rebooted I was straight a wonderful command > prompt. I then launched sysinstall again and configured my X server and my > desktop. Then I had to wade through the ports and once I'd worked out what > I needed it took about three hours to get in all compiled and installed. > > So, even though I hate to place FreeBSD behind Linux, in this instance I'm > affraid Linux wins. This reminds me of the fortune: One-Shot Case Study, n.: The scientific equivalent of the four-leaf clover, from which it is concluded all clovers possess four leaves and are sometimes green. Basically, what you have said is the exact opposite of what I have said. Does that make one of us right and one of us wrong? No, it shows that there are more factors in play than the obvious difference between FreeBSD and Linux. I know some of the reasons why Red Hat didn't work on my installation. Some of them are not complimentary to Red Hat. I don't know why your FreeBSD installation failed, but it's probably not worth a post-mortem. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 2: 5: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9726915282 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 02:04:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk) Received: from fs3.rncm.ac.uk ([193.63.96.102] helo=rncm.ac.uk) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 11BaTx-0008Yw-00; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:03:37 +0100 Received: from RNCM-FS3/SpoolDir by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 10:03:40 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by RNCM-FS3 (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 10:03:22 GMT Received: from selene (193.63.96.96) by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 3 Aug 99 10:03:12 GMT From: "Peter McGarvey" To: "Greg Lehey" Cc: "David Kudrav" , , Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:03:11 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <19990803181819.B62948@freebie.lemis.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Basically, what you have said is the exact opposite of what I have > said. Does that make one of us right and one of us wrong? No, it > shows that there are more factors in play than the obvious difference > between FreeBSD and Linux. I know some of the reasons why Red Hat > didn't work on my installation. Some of them are not complimentary to > Red Hat. I don't know why your FreeBSD installation failed, but it's > probably not worth a post-mortem. > I didn't say my FreeBSD installation didn't work. What I was trying to say was that the out-of the box config of X in Linux was considerably better than the out of the box config of X in FreeBSD. To get FreeBSD to where Linux was took hours. But, I must admit geting FreeBSD configured was much more fun than Linux. TTFN, FNORD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 3: 0:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F035A14F50 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:00:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11191; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:59:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990803195915.C10638@caamora.com.au> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:59:15 +1000 From: jonathan michaels To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> <19990803181819.B62948@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19990803181819.B62948@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 06:18:20PM +0930 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 06:18:20PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > didn't work on my installation. Some of them are not complimentary to > Red Hat. I don't know why your FreeBSD installation failed, but it's > probably not worth a post-mortem. 'probably not worth a post-mortem' i hope one day freebsd can actually over come this sort of attitude, i do genuinely believe that it will never get anywhere untill it does. on another platter, i dare say it would be important to at least one person, the person who had teh systemic failure. i seem to remember he was wanting to get freebsd running and we were as helpfull as e usually are, espacially to someone who is even just a little different to the herd at large. concidering the costs. jonathan ps, sorry for my outburst, sue, i will crawl back under my rock. -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 8:24:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from honk.org (cr876208-a.flfrd1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.90.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08912152BC for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from spectre (mpoulin@cr876208-a.flfrd1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.90.129]) by honk.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA04815 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:23:19 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:23:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Marty Poulin X-Sender: mpoulin@spectre To: FreeBSD-Newbies@freebsd.org Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Peter McGarvey wrote: > > more snippage > > What makes it easier? Well, here is my experience with RedHat Linux 6.0.... > > I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. > When my machine rebooted I was straight into X with gnome/enlightenment all > nicely setup. > > And now my experience with FreeBSD.... > > I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. > I didn't setup X as the last time I tried it caused the whole installation > to crap-out. When my machine rebooted I was straight a wonderful command > prompt. I then launched sysinstall again and configured my X server and my > desktop. Then I had to wade through the ports and once I'd worked out what > I needed it took about three hours to get in all compiled and installed. > > So, even though I hate to place FreeBSD behind Linux, in this instance I'm > affraid Linux wins. > > TTFN, FNORD While I haven't had any problem setting up X in FreeBSD, it is definitely not something the average windows user would be able to do easily. In contrast, I had the pleasure of installing Caldera OpenLinux 2.2 at home (picked up a free demo CD at Comdex) - the installation is so graphically simple that it makes any other OS look ridiculously complicated in comparison. In a nutshell, I inserted the CD, booted the machine, answered about a dozen questions, then played Tetris until I saw a message saying that the install was complete (yes - Tetris is included in the install program to allow users to kill time while it copies files and compiles the kernel). The whole procedure took less than half an hour and was so amazingly simple I couldn't believe it. For users looking for a stable, reliable and easy-to-install OS for their desktop, I definitely recommend Caldera's OpenLinux. I think that anyone considering tackling the desktop OS market would do well to examine this installation procedure. Of course I still prefer FreeBSD for servers - I trust the security and stability of BSD over Linux (my Linux desktop is nice and safe behind a FreeBSD firewall). M. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 9: 0:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dt011n65.san.rr.com (dt011n65.san.rr.com [204.210.13.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4551536F for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:00:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt011n65.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10275; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Message-ID: <37A70DB1.E3784E60@gorean.org> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:41:37 -0700 From: Doug Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT-0730 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter McGarvey Cc: Greg Lehey , David Kudrav , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter McGarvey wrote: > What makes it easier? Well, here is my experience with RedHat Linux 6.0.... > > I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. > When my machine rebooted I was straight into X with gnome/enlightenment all > nicely setup. > > And now my experience with FreeBSD.... > > I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. > I didn't setup X as the last time I tried it caused the whole installation > to crap-out. When my machine rebooted I was straight a wonderful command > prompt. I then launched sysinstall again and configured my X server and my > desktop. Then I had to wade through the ports and once I'd worked out what > I needed it took about three hours to get in all compiled and installed. > > So, even though I hate to place FreeBSD behind Linux, in this instance I'm > affraid Linux wins. For out of the box configuration FreeBSD is basically a server OS, linux is more of a desktop OS. Therefore your experience is not altogether unexpected. Also, if you had known where to look you could have had X and kde set up just as quickly as linux set up enlightenment for you. In fact, you probably could have had enlightenment set up just as fast, but I don't know for sure because I use kde and don't have any experience with the other wm ports. All that being said, the OOB is important, and freebsd tools tend to be written for people who already know the system. Then again, that's true of most unices that I've worked with. Is one or the other more "intuitive?" I'm not in a position to judge that, but you can't say that the tools aren't there for freebsd because they are. The only matter of contention is how they are presented. Good luck, Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 9: 4: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from topsecret.net (gill.apk.net [207.54.148.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5CE4E152E0 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gill@topsecret.net) Received: from stumpy by topsecret.net with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Tue, 03 Aug 1999 12:03:18 -0400 From: "James Gill" To: "Marty Poulin" , Subject: tetris! (RE: basic info on freebsd needed...) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:03:33 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: FreeBSD-Newbies@freebsd.org X-Return-Path: gill@topsecret.net Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -> In a nutshell, I inserted the CD, booted the machine, answered about a -> dozen questions, then played Tetris until I saw a message -> saying that the -> install was complete (yes - Tetris is included in the install program to -> allow users to kill time while it copies files and compiles the kernel). -> The whole procedure took less than half an hour and was so amazingly -> simple I couldn't believe it. For users looking for a stable, reliable -> and easy-to-install OS for their desktop, I definitely -> recommend Caldera's -> OpenLinux. I think that anyone considering tackling the -> desktop OS market -> would do well to examine this installation procedure. -> ha! that's a riot! imagine the reaction of someone who is trying UNIX for the first time, expecting a lot of confusing work and ....tetris! i have not "set up" x in FreeBSD, but only installed it on one machine ... it was NOT hard, really simple even (through /stand/sysinstall) to put in x/enlightenment. (though, never having been in an x environment before, once i got into it it was kind of confusing) my $.02 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 9: 8:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (law-f314.hotmail.com [209.185.131.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FB351540C for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dunaedain@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 58817 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jul 1999 06:23:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19990718062353.58816.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 202.139.54.18 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 23:23:52 PDT X-Originating-IP: [202.139.54.18] From: "lachlan kanaley" To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD, serial cards and a vt320 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 06:23:52 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hello Ive been trying to connect an old vt320 dumb terminal to my computer, and have finally got it working quite well. however, it uses the 25 pin serial port needed for my modem. I bought an old serial interface card, and after mucking about for ages with the jumpers i got that to work, at least in windows. So i know it works. I know that irq 2 is used by the irq manager or something, and irq 5 is soundcard. now irq 3 and 4 are used by com1 and 2. the card only lets com ports be on these irq's. Using other irq's that the card is not set up to use sends information very slowly to the vt320, but it is quite useless. However i have been told that com1 can share an irq with com3, and com2 with com4. When i use the kernel configuration program (boot -c) to set it up like this it complains of conflicts and disables the second two com ports. Thats no good either. can anyonoe help? It would be greatly appreciated. lachlan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 9:13:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D0F152B3 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com) Received: from isoit644.bbn.hp.com (root@isoit644.bbn.hp.com [15.136.88.78]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id JAA07069; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by isoit644.bbn.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6 TIS Openmail) with SMTP id SAA26567; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:12:43 +0200 (METDST) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:12:29 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, mpoulin@honk.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="BDY.TXT" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BDY.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think that anyone considering tackling the desktop OS market > would do well to examine this installation procedure. Based on my experience a) most users are spoiled by Windows and b) FreeBSD could be made more user friendly. The two work together very powerfully: people who are used to not having to configure anything in detail (like me :-) have a hell of a time to dig through the many many config files and parameters that produce a truly tuned system. In all honesty: I'll never do that simply because I don't have the time or the inclination to become a Unix guru. What most Unix people (this is by no means limited to FreeBSD) seem to don't understand is that a Computer is in 99% of all cases a solution to a problem, not a problem in itself. So on the one hand I am still amazed that the generic kernel simply boots without further ado (try that under Windows!!), even if you change the motherboard or NIC while on the other hand I am equally amazed that apparently 'tuning the kernel' is 'one of the chores every Unix administrator has to endure'. Wait a minute, administrator? This is where the system serving people who HAVE to have the detailed knowledge meets the masses of people who only want to click on things and use the computer as a tool. Please spare me from the arrogant comments that 'knowing how to use a mouse does not mean knowing how to use a computer'. So what? Do you have to know what factors influence the quality of the ignition spark in order to drive a car? Some people do, others just get from A to B. In my perception (reading tons of mails and posts) it's mostly an attitude problem: the people who develop FreeBSD are technical wizards and gods and what ever else. Agreed. The people at Microsoft are marketing wizards, right? They produce something the masses want: colourful, clickable programmes and never mind what's under the hood. As usual the truth is somewhere in the middle: there has to be room for users to grow. The innards of the OS and programmes should be available to people who feel inclined to fiddle, hack, improve etc. At the same time, the innards should not be pushed in the users face as is the case with FreeBSD. Of course, everybody has a choice: FREEbsd in another sense: I don't have to put myself through the ordeal, I can just shell out K$ for NT. Never mind if that solves the users problem, that's not the point. The point is one of direction: while everybody seems to agree that FreeBSD is the most stable OS that money can buy (pardon the pun) where is it headed? To return to the last post: Does anybody really even consider 'tackling the desktop OS market'? Sorry to come back to MS again but their strength is obviously not so much on the technical side but in their single minded drive to capture market share and make a ton of money. This is only possible if MANY people use their products which in turn means they have to be simple to use. User friendliness therefore is not a 'nice to have' but critical to their strategy. So, where does that leave FreeBSD? I don't know if there even is an explicitly stated direction, let alone what it is. What I know for sure is that the more time it takes and the more complex the system is to set up and use the less appeal it has for an average computer user. The server niche FreeBSD has will be around for a few years but if it does not come out of the corner and moves to the desktop then it will become a curiosity just like the bloke down the street who manages to squeeze 1% more horse power out of his engine and in the end also just drives from A to B. Yes I enjoy the ease of use of Windows and yes I also enjoy the stability of FreeBSD and the freedom it gives me to configure things. Now can I have both please? Michael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 9:15:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc2.occa.home.com (ha1.rdc2.occa.home.com [24.2.8.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A76153B4 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:15:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rbettle@criterion-group.com) Received: from criterion-group.com ([24.5.44.161]) by mail.rdc2.occa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990803161505.MVLD3787.mail.rdc2.occa.home.com@criterion-group.com>; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:15:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37A71646.AA00E9A0@criterion-group.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:18:14 -0700 From: Roy Bettle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Gill Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tetris! (RE: basic info on freebsd needed...) References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7D8B481B4CC73D58270BE6A5" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7D8B481B4CC73D58270BE6A5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The thing I love about the install that I have NEVER seen with any other NOS (pre-2.x Linux, WinNT, Novell and LANTastic) is the ability to troubleshoot IRQ/DMA/etc. conflicts BEFORE you begin the install. MAN! That was cool. As for Tetris, I would like to know how to get it running during the install. Actually, nevermind ... what I REALLY need to do is keep reading the manual ... :-| RAB James Gill wrote: > -> In a nutshell, I inserted the CD, booted the machine, answered about a > -> dozen questions, then played Tetris until I saw a message > -> saying that the > -> install was complete (yes - Tetris is included in the install program to > -> allow users to kill time while it copies files and compiles the kernel). > -> The whole procedure took less than half an hour and was so amazingly > -> simple I couldn't believe it. For users looking for a stable, reliable > -> and easy-to-install OS for their desktop, I definitely > -> recommend Caldera's > -> OpenLinux. I think that anyone considering tackling the > -> desktop OS market > -> would do well to examine this installation procedure. > -> > > ha! that's a riot! imagine the reaction of someone who is trying UNIX for > the first time, expecting a lot of confusing work and ....tetris! > > i have not "set up" x in FreeBSD, but only installed it on one machine ... > it was NOT hard, really simple even (through /stand/sysinstall) to put in > x/enlightenment. (though, never having been in an x environment before, > once i got into it it was kind of confusing) > > my $.02 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message --------------7D8B481B4CC73D58270BE6A5 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="rbettle.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Roy Bettle Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rbettle.vcf" begin:vcard n:Bettle;Roy tel;work:(949) 452-1203 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.criterion-group.com org:Criterion Group, Inc. version:2.1 email;internet:rbettle@criterion-group.com title:President note:Businesses that depend on computers, depend on us. adr;quoted-printable:;;26895 Aliso Creek Road=0D=0ASuite B404;Aliso Viejo;CA;92656;USA fn:Bettle, Roy end:vcard --------------7D8B481B4CC73D58270BE6A5-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 9:16: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 598A2152D3 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@oldserver.demon.nl) Received: from [212.238.105.241] (helo=genuine) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 11BhED-0003WO-00; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:15:49 +0000 Message-ID: <005f01beddcb$68626110$0400000a@oldserver.demon.nl> From: "Marc Schneiders" To: "Marty Poulin" , References: Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:15:30 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message From: Marty Poulin > On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Peter McGarvey wrote: > > > > > more snippage > > > > What makes it easier? Well, here is my experience with RedHat Linux 6.0.... > > > > I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. > > When my machine rebooted I was straight into X with gnome/enlightenment all > > nicely setup. > > > > And now my experience with FreeBSD.... > > > > I started the installation, answered lots of questions then waited 15 mins. > > I didn't setup X as the last time I tried it caused the whole installation > > to crap-out. When my machine rebooted I was straight a wonderful command > > prompt. I then launched sysinstall again and configured my X server and my > > desktop. Then I had to wade through the ports and once I'd worked out what > > I needed it took about three hours to get in all compiled and installed. > > > > So, even though I hate to place FreeBSD behind Linux, in this instance I'm > > affraid Linux wins. > > > > TTFN, FNORD > > While I haven't had any problem setting up X in FreeBSD, it is definitely > not something the average windows user would be able to do easily. In > contrast, I had the pleasure of installing Caldera OpenLinux 2.2 at home > (picked up a free demo CD at Comdex) - the installation is so graphically > simple that it makes any other OS look ridiculously complicated in > comparison. > > In a nutshell, I inserted the CD, booted the machine, answered about a > dozen questions, then played Tetris until I saw a message saying that the > install was complete (yes - Tetris is included in the install program to > allow users to kill time while it copies files and compiles the kernel). > The whole procedure took less than half an hour and was so amazingly > simple I couldn't believe it. For users looking for a stable, reliable > and easy-to-install OS for their desktop, I definitely recommend Caldera's > OpenLinux. I think that anyone considering tackling the desktop OS market > would do well to examine this installation procedure. > [..] I am happy Caldera worked for you. It did not for me. I tried it on 5 (five!) different machines, only on one it worked, I mean the easy graphic install. With the four others it did not. Now I am not talking about old, or strange hardware... To put it briefly: Caldera's wizzard only supports a very limited number of graphic cards, far less than XFree. If you have another graphic card, you are lost and have to use the least userfriendly floppy install in the whole discovered linux universe. FreeBSD requires some config for X. So what? That way you get what you want, not what RedHat or whoever likes best (gnome, kde etc). Marc Schneiders marc@oldserver.demon.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 9:28:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f212.hotmail.com [207.82.251.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 107FF1509F for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:28:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 59721 invoked by uid 0); 3 Aug 1999 16:28:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990803162824.59720.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.160.92.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:28:24 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.92.86] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NEWBIE ALERT!!! Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:28:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I stand corrected. With a swift kick in the ass 8+ emails later... OK... Goto Walnut Creek CD-ROM for the BEST FreeBSD Distribution on the net!!!!! > > > > Indelible-blue > > "http://www.indelible-blue.com/ibapps/products.nsf/unix" > > > >look for "the complete set of FreeBSD +4 CD's" > >when you get FreeBSD from indelible blue, you get a 500 page book + the > >walnut Creek distribution of FreeBSD... > P.S. Damn.. now I got the whole walnut creek staff on my a$$.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 10:12:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (pau-amma.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654C114C10 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:12:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id KAA46003; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:11:36 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199908031711.KAA46003@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, the_hermit665@hotmail.com Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... In-Reply-To: <19990802180024.48109.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >From: "Cosmic 665" >Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:00:23 PDT > I did the same thing and got Solaris7. I think "It sucks". The reason >why I say solaris7 sucks is because it has less "Hardware support" >(especially compared to FreeBSD). I suppose that depends on perspective... and what hardware you're talking about. For home, I'm using Solaris 2.6 (server)... but that's on a SPARCstation. I never had any "PC" type hardware until a couple of weeks ago at home, and I bought my first computer in '85. >Also, Solaris take a *shit-load* of memory to run on a "Non-Commercial" OS. Solaris 2.x is rather memory-intensive -- but a *lot* of popular applications (Netscape Communicator, for example) tend towards rampant resource-consumption, as well. >you need at least a p166 with 48-64MB of ram to get some real use out of >it. I have solaris7, and it's gonna sit on my shelf next to BeOS 3.1 till >the end of time :P (Hell, even BeOS is better). As usual, it depends on what you're doing with it. (My SS5/Solaris 2.6, in addition to being the desktop I normally use, also has an 8mm tape drive, as well as a 4mm drive with a 4-slot autoloader, a scanner, most of the home disk storage, a SunVideo card, a scanner, and the laser printer is hung off its parallel port. In addition to being the master internal nameserver, it is also the NIS master, and also runs the PMconsole software to control the Livingston (now Lucent) PortMaster 2, as well as being the "driver" system for the home-grown backup script I use. I tend to stay logged into it for months at a time, as a matter of course.) More on-topic for a FreeBSD list, though, the secondhand P-133 box I picked up is getting nicely configured as a NAT/firewall box for the new DSL connection. I'm expecting to be able to offer secondary nameservice (in exchange for reciprocation) shortly. And probably more relevant, the box I put together for my wife is now to a point where I think I can finally swap it into place (tonight), to take the place of the Sun 3/60 that she had been using. It's got an AMD K6-2/400, 64 MB RAM, and a Matrox Millenium G400 video card -- she wanted to be able to support a resolution of 1600x1200, which it does quite handily, with a 32-bit color depth (using XFree86 3.3.4). (1152x900x8 is usual on the Suns.) If it starts swapping, I'll add 64 MB more memory. I think she will like it. Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 10:13:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f227.hotmail.com [207.82.251.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D401014E4C for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 86133 invoked by uid 0); 3 Aug 1999 17:13:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19990803171345.86131.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.160.92.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Aug 1999 10:13:44 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.92.86] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 10:13:44 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Yes I enjoy the ease of use of Windows and yes I also enjoy the stability >of FreeBSD and the freedom it gives me to configure things. Now can I have >both please? > >Michael > Never!!!.. take a good look at the operating system know as Operating System/2 or Nextstep. OS/2 "in my opinion" could have been the best OS on the market if IBM wasn't such a control Freak!! Even today OS/2 holds up although most OS/2 users are running to BeOS and linux. FreeBSD is one of the best OS's (there can Be no Less anything). "I think I heard it best from a linux user who said: "If you make something idiot proof, then only idiots will use it." Well "ALL of US" are Using FreeBSD because "where not idiots" (Yes even me.. forgive me walnut creek :P). There should never be a "Grey-Area" in Operating Systems. After-all, in 15 years 9yr olds will be doing SYSADMIN jobs.... and what will we be doing???? -don't re-invent the wheel Cosmic-665 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 11:38:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09D414ED3 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:38:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from akane (ppp118.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.118]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07125; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:25:56 -0700 () From: Rick Hamell To: MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com Cc: hamellr@hpc1.com, FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@dsinw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > In my perception (reading tons of mails and posts) it's mostly an attitude > problem: the people who develop FreeBSD are technical wizards and gods and > what ever else. Agreed. The people at Microsoft are marketing wizards, > right? They produce something the masses want: colourful, clickable > programmes and never mind what's under the hood. And, the Gods produce what they want. A stable, fast server OS. > As usual the truth is somewhere in the middle: there has to be room for > users to grow. The innards of the OS and programmes should be available to > people who feel inclined to fiddle, hack, improve etc. At the same time, > the innards should not be pushed in the users face as is the case with > FreeBSD. Of course, everybody has a choice: FREEbsd in another sense: I > don't have to put myself through the ordeal, I can just shell out K$ for > NT. Never mind if that solves the users problem, that's not the point. The > point is one of direction: while everybody seems to agree that FreeBSD is > the most stable OS that money can buy (pardon the pun) where is it headed? But most people just don't get it. FreeBSD is essentially a hobby OS. Jordan, David, Terry, Rod and all the other core team members contributed to the project in their spare time. Sure they may make money supporting and installing FreeBSD systems or even programming in it... but it's still a hobby. Few people on the core team (seem to me) to really care if FreeBSD is ever used by any one else other then themselves. They continue supporting it because it does what they want it to do, and if it dosen't they'll write that feature in. So since they're all hard-core Unix types making a hobby, why should they spend their time making FreeBSD user friendly when they have no intrest in doing so? They would prefer optimizing the kernal code, adding SMP support, smoothing out the ports collection, etc, etc, etc, because.... that is FUN to them! In the same vein, I do my hobbies the way *I* want to... because that's how they're the most fun for me. If I'm told how to do something, or even worse, it's demanded that I do it a certain way that is not fun... I'll stop doing it. > To return to the last post: Does anybody really even consider 'tackling > the desktop OS market'? Sorry to come back to MS again but their strength > is obviously not so much on the technical side but in their single minded > drive to capture market share and make a ton of money. This is only > possible if MANY people use their products which in turn means they have > to be simple to use. User friendliness therefore is not a 'nice to have' > but critical to their strategy. The Linux camp has. As far as anybody in the FreeBSD is really concerned, (again from what I've seen,) they can have it. In fact, few people really even see it as a race in the first place. > So, where does that leave FreeBSD? I don't know if there even is an > explicitly stated direction, let alone what it is. What I know for sure is > that the more time it takes and the more complex the system is to set up > and use the less appeal it has for an average computer user. The server > niche FreeBSD has will be around for a few years but if it does not come > out of the corner and moves to the desktop then it will become a curiosity > just like the bloke down the street who manages to squeeze 1% more horse > power out of his engine and in the end also just drives from A to B. The server niche FreeBSD has will always be around, until Microsoft (or another company) can make a GUI server OS as stable and capable as itself. There are just too many people out there who still need reliability over pretty looking monitor screens. Sure the 'market' as you put it may shrink, but since it's merely a hobby... why should they really care? > Yes I enjoy the ease of use of Windows and yes I also enjoy the stability > of FreeBSD and the freedom it gives me to configure things. Now can I have > both please? Yes, but it'll take people like you to get off their asses, stop complaining and making FreeBSD into what THEY want it to be. Complaining and bitching gets nowhere, even less so when they don't even contribute to the project itself. If you want to change it, learn to program, start committing to the tree, run the bleeding edge software, recompile Linux software into native FreeBSD ports. Make user-friendly configuration scripts that have all kinds of pretty pictures and play Tetris while you're installing, write documentation that holds a users hands while they install FreeBSD and shows all the ins and outs involved and the consequences of every action they can take. After all.... Microsoft has thousands of junior and contract programmers doing just that.... Rick -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 18:34:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538F314C0A for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:34:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA03310; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:03:55 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA68163; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:03:55 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:03:55 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Michael Henry Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Message-ID: <19990804110354.C62948@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> <19990803042118.7D615151C7@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990803042118.7D615151C7@hub.freebsd.org>; from Michael Henry on Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 02:20:51PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 3 August 1999 at 14:20:51 +1000, Michael Henry wrote: >> I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no >> difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in >> installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's >> the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it >> pretty well. > > You wrote the book, after all :) > > (Which includes an excellent chapter titled "XFree86 configuration in depth". > I didn't read this chapter when I did the initial install, but when I did > a major upgrade I read it so I could "tweak" my configuration. Very > interesting stuff. I just wish the @%^#!&*$ manufacturers would provide all > the data about their products!) > > Getting back on topic, I recently installed FreeBSD on a PC here at uni, and was > able to use the same XF86Config that Linux had been using. Good point. Since I have FreeBSD and Linux on the same laptop, I just copied the file. I had to change the name of the mouse device, but then it worked. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 19: 2:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF46814C0A for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-014.charm.net [209.143.116.14]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22529; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A79EAA.49C4D47B@charm.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 22:00:10 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Peter McGarvey , David Kudrav , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... References: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Monday, 2 August 1999 at 10:46:22 +0100, Peter McGarvey wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have > >> some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly > >> less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but only > >> as a user and for limited applications. > > > > snippage... > > > > > > I lookafter a Sun Server running the SPARC version of Solaris. I also got > > the free Solaris so I could try it on a PC. SPARC Solaris runs fine on a > > Dual 400MHz SPARC-II system. x86 Solaris ran like a dog on a P233. > > > > Never felt the need to look at OpenBSD... > > > > As for Linux/FreeBSD.... > > > > I've just setup a machine at home running DOS/Win98/FreeBSD 3.2/RedHat Linux > > 6.0. IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to > > install. However, when it comes to setting up X, Linux is nicely setup by > > default - with FreeBSD it takes a bit of effort but appears to be > > faster. > > Interesting. What makes it easier? > > I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no > difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in > installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's > the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it > pretty well. Admittedly, I haven't spent days trying to install, but > I don't think I should have to. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key Does this mean that when I install Red Hat 5.2 (on CD) and XFree86 I will have nothing but problems. I am running netscape and X (this msg) on FreeBSD with only a strange Netscape crash to figure out. Easy stuff kill -9 to remove netscape. So, if I have this little problem now .... Plan, when I get some parts. One win98 box, one RH 5.2 box, and this box. -dutch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 20:45:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from garnet.acns.fsu.edu (gmhub.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.2.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946CA14EF6 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:45:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bcc9746@garnet.acns.fsu.edu) Received: from garnet1.acns.fsu.edu (garnet1-fi.acns.fsu.edu [192.168.197.1]) by garnet.acns.fsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA04626; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:44:32 -0400 Received: from s1o3q0 (dial820.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.35.210]) by garnet1.acns.fsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA53864; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:44:31 -0400 Message-ID: <012201bede2b$f2b71f80$d223c992@s1o3q0> From: "Brett G. Castleberry" To: "Dutch Collins" Cc: References: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> <37A79EAA.49C4D47B@charm.net> Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:46:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Dutch Collins To: Greg Lehey Cc: Peter McGarvey ; David Kudrav ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 10:00 PM Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... > Does this mean that when I install Red Hat 5.2 (on CD) and XFree86 I will > have nothing but problems. I am running netscape and X (this msg) on > FreeBSD with only a strange Netscape crash to figure out. Easy stuff kill > -9 > to remove netscape. So, if I have this little problem now .... > > Plan, when I get some parts. One win98 box, one RH 5.2 box, and this box. > -dutch Maybe, with 5.2.. From the RH6.0 manual, "Installation-Related Enhancements." "Xconfigurator is now run at the very end of the install, after all filesystem components have been installed. In the past, if Xconfigurator were to hang, you would likely have to start the installation over. Now it is possible to boot Red Hat Linux and configure X after the installation has completed" When I tried the Xconfigurator probe, my monitor crashed, but I went back and skipped the probe, and had no trouble with the manual selection of my video card, monitor, etc.. Now, I'm not a Serious User. I'm just practising commands and snooping around in the files, but I have discovered that the Linuxes did not just spring full-blown from the forehead of Zeus. I was reading the inetd.conf file, trying to solve a mail problem, when I found a line at the end stating that this file had been adapted from a file in, guess what? FreeBSD, by way of Debian. Brett G. Castleberry bcc9746@garnet.acns.fsu.edu Tallahassee, Florida To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 3 21:17:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C1314DED for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:17:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from treecat@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-014.charm.net [209.143.116.14]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06396; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A7BEC7.BA3012E4@charm.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 00:17:11 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Brett G. Castleberry" Cc: Dutch Collins , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... References: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> <37A79EAA.49C4D47B@charm.net> <012201bede2b$f2b71f80$d223c992@s1o3q0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Brett G. Castleberry" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dutch Collins > To: Greg Lehey > Cc: Peter McGarvey ; David Kudrav > ; ; > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 10:00 PM > Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... > > > Does this mean that when I install Red Hat 5.2 (on CD) and XFree86 I will > > have nothing but problems. I am running netscape and X (this msg) on > > FreeBSD with only a strange Netscape crash to figure out. Easy stuff kill > > -9 > > to remove netscape. So, if I have this little problem now .... > > > > Plan, when I get some parts. One win98 box, one RH 5.2 box, and this box. > > -dutch > > Maybe, with 5.2.. From the RH6.0 manual, "Installation-Related > Enhancements." > "Xconfigurator is now run at the very end of the install, after all > filesystem components have been installed. In the past, if Xconfigurator > were to hang, you would likely have to start the installation over. Now it > is possible to boot Red Hat Linux and configure X after the installation has > completed" > When I tried the Xconfigurator probe, my monitor crashed, but I went > back and skipped the probe, and had no trouble with the manual selection of > my video card, monitor, etc.. > Now, I'm not a Serious User. I'm just practising commands and snooping > around in the files, but I have discovered that the Linuxes did not just > spring full-blown from the forehead of Zeus. I was reading the inetd.conf > file, trying to solve a mail problem, when I found a line at the end > stating that this file had been adapted from a file in, guess what? FreeBSD, > by way of Debian. > > Brett G. Castleberry > bcc9746@garnet.acns.fsu.edu > Tallahassee, Florida > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Well all that is real nifty. FreeBSD 3.2-R generic (lazy me) sysinstall in full graphic mode, when configuring X, had a tendency to forget what it was doing (on this machine). Command Line worked just fine. Sooo, looks like convergence is creeping up on everyone, Linux trying to be BSD. I will find out. The Red Hat box is almost done, short a bigger drive and network card. 170mb is just a headache. If you are messing around try Communicator 4.51 (walcreek CD). It has a couple of interesting 'features'; a) mail windows use micro size print, b) time looks funny but I'll check it for a *me* error, c) stops working for no reason and it takes a kill -9 to get rid of it. All these features I am talking about are on this machine - don't have a known good setup to compare it to. Argh! -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 0:43: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A41B1504C for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com) Received: from isoit644.bbn.hp.com (root@isoit644.bbn.hp.com [15.136.88.78]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id DAA12307; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:42:04 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by isoit644.bbn.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6 TIS Openmail) with SMTP id JAA15512; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:42:26 +0200 (METDST) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:42:15 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, hamellr@dsinw.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="BDY.TXT" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BDY.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Yes I enjoy the ease of use of Windows and yes I also enjoy the stability > of FreeBSD and the freedom it gives me to configure things. Now can I have > both please? Yes, but it'll take people like you to get off their asses, stop complaining and making FreeBSD into what THEY want it to be. Complaining and bitching gets nowhere, even less so when they don't even contribute to the project itself. If you want to change it, learn to program, start committing to the tree, run the bleeding edge software, recompile Linux software into native FreeBSD ports. Make user-friendly configuration scripts that have all kinds of pretty pictures and play Tetris while you're installing, write documentation that holds a users hands while they install FreeBSD and shows all the ins and outs involved and the consequences of every action they can take. After all.... Microsoft has thousands of junior and contract programmers doing just that.... Rick Well, I did not intend this to be a complaint, so cool your jets. Of course you are correct, if anybody who wanted a particular feature would get their act together and wrote it then Windows would be dead by now. The point of the post was to contrast the various camps and to show in an ironic way how various factors collaborate to keep FreeBSD in the hobby/niche area. Funny then how much official FreeBSD communication (Web/newsletter) is spent on 'advocacy'. If it was truly just a hobby, then why try to convince other people of its merits? I'm afraid this kind of double standard, pushing it as the best OS there is and retreating into "we do what we want to" and "it's only missing features because you don't help" every time somebody suggests something remotely resembling a new feature won't help. Make up your mind: hobby or service. If it's a service then start listening to the people using it because the next generation of users will thrive on the experience of the current users. If it's a hobby then stop any advocacy and most importantly stop selling it. If you expect me to pay (I have) and shut up (I won't) then I'm afraid you're behaving like the proverbial Microsoft. The least I expect that happens with my money is that it funds future development and therefore buys me the right to give inputs. What else does it mean when 'Walnut Creek passes part of the money paid back to the FreeBSD project' ? (thanks for the quote, Adam) Do you think I just pay because I'm such a nice person and it's oh so nice to fund these nice programmers with their nice hobby? Face it: FreeBSD has become a commercial product and you cannot have it both ways. If you value the people who code that much higher than the people who pay I'm afraid that thinking is stuck in pre-industrial times where division of labour as a concept was still to be discovered. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 1:20:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825141533E for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk) Received: from fs3.rncm.ac.uk ([193.63.96.102] helo=rncm.ac.uk) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 11BwGN-0009L6-00; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:19:03 +0100 Received: from RNCM-FS3/SpoolDir by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 4 Aug 99 09:19:05 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by RNCM-FS3 (Mercury 1.44); 4 Aug 99 09:18:57 GMT Received: from selene (193.63.96.96) by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 4 Aug 99 09:18:54 GMT From: "Peter McGarvey" To: "Doug" Cc: "Greg Lehey" , "David Kudrav" , , Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:18:52 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <37A70DB1.E3784E60@gorean.org> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ...Major Snippage.... > For out of the box configuration FreeBSD is basically > a server OS, linux is more of a desktop OS. Therefore > your experience is not altogether unexpected. Also, if > you had known where to look you could have had X and > kde set up just as quickly as linux set up enlightenment > for you. In fact, you probably could have had enlightenment > set up just as fast, but I don't know for sure because > I use kde and don't have any experience with the other > wm ports. > > All that being said, the OOB is important, and freebsd tools > tend to be written for people who already know the system. > Then again, that's true of most unices that I've worked with. > Is one or the other more "intuitive?" I'm not in a position > to judge that, but you can't say that the tools aren't there > for freebsd because they are. The only matter of contention is > how they are presented. I'm aware that FreeBSD is a server OS - and it's a bloody good one too. I've been using it for over a year. Of course I've had problems. But I've usually solved these problem fairly easily and in the process learned quite a lot. I'm quite happy with the tools that come with FreeBSD and would actually sugest that they are intuitive if you know what you are doing. Indeed, I've recently replaced an NT server with a FreeBSD partly because I couldn't cope with the poor performance/stability but mainly because the idiotically intuitive and long winded GUI make simple jobs take an age. I only looked at Linux for two reasons. Firstly I wanted to see what it was like. And second, I wanted to try out Oracle as god intended before trying to get the FreeBSD Linux emulator to do it. However, once I'd seen X on Linux I decided that the time had come to try to get the exact same look and feel with FreeBSD - and possibly find a replacement for my crappy ol' Win98 desktop. Call me a train spotter but if I see something I like I invariably try to get FreeBSD to do it. I'd proved that FreeBSD could do everything I needed Windows NT for (well almost everything). So don't see why I can't aim for Linux (and possibly Win98). If you ask me user friendlyness looks good to corporate marketing types - but when it comes down to it, most techies want something that will do whatever they want. BTW, you may be interested in this article which compares several different flavours of unix - including FreeBSD. http://www.techwebuk.com/story/TUK19990726S0029 TTFN, FNORD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=- Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 1:20:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C55115340 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA04756; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:48:58 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA68904; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:48:57 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:48:57 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Dutch Collins Cc: Peter McGarvey , David Kudrav , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Message-ID: <19990804174856.J62948@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> <37A79EAA.49C4D47B@charm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <37A79EAA.49C4D47B@charm.net>; from Dutch Collins on Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 10:00:10PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 3 August 1999 at 22:00:10 -0400, Dutch Collins wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Monday, 2 August 1999 at 10:46:22 +0100, Peter McGarvey wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have >>>> some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly >>>> less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but only >>>> as a user and for limited applications. >>> >>> snippage... >>> >>> >>> I lookafter a Sun Server running the SPARC version of Solaris. I also got >>> the free Solaris so I could try it on a PC. SPARC Solaris runs fine on a >>> Dual 400MHz SPARC-II system. x86 Solaris ran like a dog on a P233. >>> >>> Never felt the need to look at OpenBSD... >>> >>> As for Linux/FreeBSD.... >>> >>> I've just setup a machine at home running DOS/Win98/FreeBSD 3.2/RedHat Linux >>> 6.0. IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to >>> install. However, when it comes to setting up X, Linux is nicely setup by >>> default - with FreeBSD it takes a bit of effort but appears to be >>> faster. >> >> Interesting. What makes it easier? >> >> I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no >> difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in >> installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's >> the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it >> pretty well. Admittedly, I haven't spent days trying to install, but >> I don't think I should have to. > > Does this mean that when I install Red Hat 5.2 (on CD) and XFree86 I will > have nothing but problems. No. It could be smooth as silk. A lot depends on your hardware, like it does with FreeBSD. > I am running netscape and X (this msg) on FreeBSD with only a > strange Netscape crash to figure out. Easy stuff kill -9 to remove > netscape. So, if I have this little problem now .... netscape is a pain. Probably the most unreliable program I use. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 6:15:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from wrath.ncfunds.com (wrath.ncfunds.com [199.72.239.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0DB14D4E for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:15:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Mark@ncfunds.com) Received: by wrath.ncfunds.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:14:26 -0400 Message-ID: <4DC0F56D09DFD21191DD00805FC1DE5A0D4A1A@wrath.ncfunds.com> From: Mark Turner To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:14:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Netscape, for me, is more stable on FreeBSD than it is on Windows though. 4.51 on each. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Greg Lehey [mailto:grog@lemis.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 4:19 AM To: Dutch Collins Cc: Peter McGarvey; David Kudrav; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... On Tuesday, 3 August 1999 at 22:00:10 -0400, Dutch Collins wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Monday, 2 August 1999 at 10:46:22 +0100, Peter McGarvey wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have >>>> some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly >>>> less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but only >>>> as a user and for limited applications. >>> >>> snippage... >>> >>> >>> I lookafter a Sun Server running the SPARC version of Solaris. I also got >>> the free Solaris so I could try it on a PC. SPARC Solaris runs fine on a >>> Dual 400MHz SPARC-II system. x86 Solaris ran like a dog on a P233. >>> >>> Never felt the need to look at OpenBSD... >>> >>> As for Linux/FreeBSD.... >>> >>> I've just setup a machine at home running DOS/Win98/FreeBSD 3.2/RedHat Linux >>> 6.0. IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to >>> install. However, when it comes to setting up X, Linux is nicely setup by >>> default - with FreeBSD it takes a bit of effort but appears to be >>> faster. >> >> Interesting. What makes it easier? >> >> I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no >> difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in >> installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's >> the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it >> pretty well. Admittedly, I haven't spent days trying to install, but >> I don't think I should have to. > > Does this mean that when I install Red Hat 5.2 (on CD) and XFree86 I will > have nothing but problems. No. It could be smooth as silk. A lot depends on your hardware, like it does with FreeBSD. > I am running netscape and X (this msg) on FreeBSD with only a > strange Netscape crash to figure out. Easy stuff kill -9 to remove > netscape. So, if I have this little problem now .... netscape is a pain. Probably the most unreliable program I use. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 6:29:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B551511A for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:29:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-007.charm.net [209.143.116.7]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05421; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A83FE8.88AC1871@charm.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:28:08 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Peter McGarvey , David Kudrav , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, kudra001@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... References: <19990803120725.N62948@freebie.lemis.com> <37A79EAA.49C4D47B@charm.net> <19990804174856.J62948@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Tuesday, 3 August 1999 at 22:00:10 -0400, Dutch Collins wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> > >> On Monday, 2 August 1999 at 10:46:22 +0100, Peter McGarvey wrote: > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> I am considering running freebsd and also considering openbsd, but have > >>>> some questions. I am fairly familiar with AIX and Solaris, and slightly > >>>> less familiar with Linux. I use AIX and/or Solaris almost daily, but only > >>>> as a user and for limited applications. > >>> > >>> snippage... > >>> > >>> > >>> I lookafter a Sun Server running the SPARC version of Solaris. I also got > >>> the free Solaris so I could try it on a PC. SPARC Solaris runs fine on a > >>> Dual 400MHz SPARC-II system. x86 Solaris ran like a dog on a P233. > >>> > >>> Never felt the need to look at OpenBSD... > >>> > >>> As for Linux/FreeBSD.... > >>> > >>> I've just setup a machine at home running DOS/Win98/FreeBSD 3.2/RedHat Linux > >>> 6.0. IMHO FreeBSD is definately the better OS, and is much easier to > >>> install. However, when it comes to setting up X, Linux is nicely setup by > >>> default - with FreeBSD it takes a bit of effort but appears to be > >>> faster. > >> > >> Interesting. What makes it easier? > >> > >> I have just set up a laptop with X and all that good stuff. I had no > >> difficulty installing FreeBSD, but I haven't been successful in > >> installing X on the Red Hat system, this despite that fact that it's > >> the same XFree86 on both platforms, and that I think I understand it > >> pretty well. Admittedly, I haven't spent days trying to install, but > >> I don't think I should have to. > > > > Does this mean that when I install Red Hat 5.2 (on CD) and XFree86 I will > > have nothing but problems. > > No. It could be smooth as silk. A lot depends on your hardware, like > it does with FreeBSD. Since my hardware is as 'plain' as 486 machines can get, easy. About time too. > > I am running netscape and X (this msg) on FreeBSD with only a > > strange Netscape crash to figure out. Easy stuff kill -9 to remove > > netscape. So, if I have this little problem now .... > > netscape is a pain. Probably the most unreliable program I use. > > Greg > -- I have found the fastest way to crash communicator 4.51. Switch between two e-mail accounts. Select preferences and change all the mail names and passwords -- works every time after two changes. I think (?) all that communication with the ISP overflows the sio buffer. Just a thought, I really do not care, however it might answer someone's question. I didn't look at any logs but *madeline's* screen was full of sio errors. I think Opera has a browser ready and the wife likes that one too. So. And, KDE is not good enough, she wants an iMAC now. I am not sure if I can figure that one out when she gets one. Lets see; win98, RedHat, iMAC --->madeline.xx.xx [gateway] = argc&argv! back to work. -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 7:16:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (pau-amma.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E11814C46 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA51049; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:15:21 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199908041415.HAA51049@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: bcc9746@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, treecat@charm.net Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Cc: dutch@charm.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <37A7BEC7.BA3012E4@charm.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 00:17:11 -0400 >From: Dutch Collins >If you are messing around try Communicator 4.51 (walcreek CD). It has a >couple of interesting 'features'; a) mail windows use micro size print, This *may* be apropos.... As previously noted, at home, I normally use a SPARCstation, the monitor of which uses a resolution of 1152x900. In the process of setting up & testing my wife's (new) FreeBSD box, which uses a (default) resolution of 1600x1200, I noted that if I had started up Netscape Communicator (4.61) on the FreeBSD box, then went back to the SS5, Communicator not only remembered the window size on the "larger" screen, but also changed the point size of the fonts (so that much was unreadable, until I manually re-selected what I wanted). (Yes, the machines are all set up so that we share home directories across machines.) Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 7:32: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from icmct.uvt.ro (icmct.uvt.ro [193.226.14.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECA4C15153 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:31:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from baroti@icmct.uvt.ro) Received: from localhost (baroti@localhost) by icmct.uvt.ro (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA18372 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:18:59 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from baroti@icmct.uvt.ro) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:18:59 +0300 (EEST) From: Istvan & Agra Baroti To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Thanks for any: need short unix program In-Reply-To: <37A5F704.4C72A521@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org thnx To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 7:32:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9853215153 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:32:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-007.charm.net [209.143.116.7]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14747; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A84EB9.7C846244@charm.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:31:21 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill Cc: bcc9746@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, dutch@charm.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... References: <199908041415.HAA51049@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Wolfskill wrote: > > >Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 00:17:11 -0400 > >From: Dutch Collins > > >If you are messing around try Communicator 4.51 (walcreek CD). It has a > >couple of interesting 'features'; a) mail windows use micro size print, > > This *may* be apropos.... > > As previously noted, at home, I normally use a SPARCstation, the monitor > of which uses a resolution of 1152x900. > > In the process of setting up & testing my wife's (new) FreeBSD box, > which uses a (default) resolution of 1600x1200, I noted that if I had > started up Netscape Communicator (4.61) on the FreeBSD box, then went > back to the SS5, Communicator not only remembered the window size on the > "larger" screen, but also changed the point size of the fonts (so that > much was unreadable, until I manually re-selected what I wanted). > > (Yes, the machines are all set up so that we share home directories > across machines.) > > Cheers, > david > -- > David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com UNIX System Administrator > voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (888) 347-0197 FAX: (650) 372-5915 I have my video set to 1024x768. The only micro sized print is in the mail folder list. I am taking a look at the preferences.ja (?) file for any setting that netscape wants non-modifiable. -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 10:49:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from br3-de0.dnsmgr.net (br3-de0.dnsmgr.net [198.145.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD01A151C5 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:49:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@hamell.hpc1.com) Received: from heorot.hamell.hpc1.com (host74-172.iwbc.net [216.228.74.172]) by br3-de0.dnsmgr.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA61032; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@hamell.hpc1.com) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:09:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hamell To: MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, I did not intend this to be a complaint, so cool your jets. Of > course you are correct, if anybody who wanted a particular feature would > get their act together and wrote it then Windows would be dead by now. Unluckily it was not meant to be a complaint either...:) Merely playing devils advocate to a certain point. I would love to see Microsoft dead, not because I see it as a bad product, but because I do not agree with the ethics of the company and Mr. Bill. > hobby/niche area. Funny then how much official FreeBSD communication > (Web/newsletter) is spent on 'advocacy'. If it was truly just a hobby, > then why try to convince other people of its merits? To get other people into the hobby. It's a ego thing. If other people are using and enjoying your work then wouldn't that make you feel good too? If they can in addition sell it with a nice book then turn the profits back into the hobby itself, wouldn't that be even better in the long run. You would then have the money to really do those things you wanted to do but couldn't afford to do out of pocket before. I.e. the current incarnation of ftp.cdrom.com Which in turns gets the hobby out to still more people who would enjoy it and stroke your ego. > If you expect me to pay (I have) and shut up (I won't) then I'm afraid > you're behaving like the proverbial Microsoft. The least I expect that > happens with my money is that it funds future development and therefore > buys me the right to give inputs. What else does it mean when 'Walnut > Creek passes part of the money paid back to the FreeBSD project' ? (thanks > for the quote, Adam) Do you think I just pay because I'm such a nice > person and it's oh so nice to fund these nice programmers with their nice > hobby? I give them my money to further their vision, as I agree with the direction they're taking it. They have the knowledge and time to do the really important stuff, like make the core parts of the system better and faster, add support for newer hardware architectures, etc, etc. In turn, my involvement in the project has been avocating it when I can. Helping others installing and getting things configured. Sitting down for long hours to figure out how something works, in detail, so that I better my knowledge of computers (and hopefully soon programming,) I've been working to get a Portland FreeBSD Users Group up and going so that the local community can support and advocate the project as a whole. But.... it is still nothing more then a hobby for me. I run FreeBSD at home almost exclusivly because I'm tired of trying to figure out why Windows crashed just because I clicked on one icon. I'm tired of trying to figure out why my registry is corrupted three days after a fresh install. I'm tired of constantly playing Microsoft's upgrade game. Oh, Office 2000? No thanks... I've got Office V.2, V.5, V.6, V.95 and V.97.... why would I want it? Oh... because not a single old version can read the new word format. So lets shell out another $150 or so for an upgrade, the only differance between it and the full install (and another $100) being a few lines of code that looks for the old installation. Windows resides on a small slice in my machine because I got into computers by playing games. I'm still a gamer at heart and love spending hours exploring the vision and imagination of others. I'm taking the time to explore FreeBSD in the same way, so that I too can someday contribute to the project in a meaningful way. So that I can add to my resume 'FreeBSD Committer,' or even more remotly possibly 'FreeBSD Core Team Member.' > Face it: FreeBSD has become a commercial product and you cannot have it > both ways. If you value the people who code that much higher than the > people who pay I'm afraid that thinking is stuck in pre-industrial times > where division of labour as a concept was still to be discovered. I just still don't agree with you on this. I dimly remeber Rod and Jordan discussing getting a 501C Non-profit whatyamacallit for the FreeBSD Project only a year or so ago. I don't know what came of that, but how does a commercial (make money for profit,) make money with a non-profit status? As for who I value, I still value those who contribute to the project, wether it be money from buying the manual and the 4 CD set, to the core team members itself, to the guy who downloaded it off the ftp site, installed once had no problems and helps others on the mailing list or tells others about it. I do not value the person who sits around a says 'FreeBSD must have this feature or it will be dead within a year.' (Not that I'm saying you do that, again just trying to play devils advocate to a certain point here. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 12:19:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3898314CEC for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-175.charm.net [209.143.116.175]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26417 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A891F3.167486E5@charm.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 15:18:12 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: Joke] It is sort of a joke -d Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------60D0CD6CAFEB5503AA9F034D" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------60D0CD6CAFEB5503AA9F034D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This needs to be extended; FreeBSD, OpenBSD, you get the idea. I am not really ready to extend this, but someone may. -d --------------60D0CD6CAFEB5503AA9F034D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from lists.umbc.edu (lists.umbc.edu [130.85.253.16]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12775 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.umbc.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id NAA46250 for umbclinux-outgoing@lists.umbc.edu; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2out.umbc.edu (mx2out.umbc.edu [130.85.253.52]) by lists.umbc.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA46172 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gl.umbc.edu (twood1@umbc9.umbc.edu [130.85.60.11]) by mx2out.umbc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12714 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (twood1@localhost) by gl.umbc.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA3434217 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:41:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: umbc9.umbc.edu: twood1 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:40:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Buchbinder Wood X-Sender: twood1@umbc9.umbc.edu To: UMBC Linux Mailing List Subject: Joke Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-umbclinux@lists.umbc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: umbclinux@lists.umbc.edu X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 IF OPERATING SYSTEMS RAN THE AIRLINES - Submitted by J. Hovind _______________________________________ UNIX Airways Everyone brings one piece of the plane along when they come to the airport. They all go out on the runway and put the plane together piece by piece, arguing non-stop about what kind of plane they are supposed to be building. Air DOS Everybody pushes the airplane until it glides, then they jump on and let the plane coast until it hits the ground again. Then they push again, jump on again, and so on ... Mac Airlines All the stewards, captains, baggage handlers, and ticket agents look and act exactly the same. Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told that you don't need to know, don't want to know, and everything will be done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up. Windows Air The terminal is pretty and colorful, with friendly stewards, easy baggage check and boarding, and a smooth take-off. After about 10 minutes in the air, the plane explodes with no warning whatsoever. Windows NT Air Just like Windows Air, but costs more, uses much bigger planes, and takes out all the other aircraft within a 40-mile radius when it explodes. Linux Air Disgruntled employees of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself. When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plan leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?" --------------60D0CD6CAFEB5503AA9F034D-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 14:42:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f315.hotmail.com [207.82.250.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 12D6F152A2 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:42:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_hermit665@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 85469 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 21:42:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804214225.85468.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.160.92.86 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:42:21 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.92.86] Reply-To: the_hermit665@hotmail.com From: "Cosmic 665" To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:42:21 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Man!!! what did I tell ya! Be happy with the way things are.. don't re-invent the wheel. It's working in our favor now. After all, where are all the *computer novices* gonna go when the "Great Windows OS" comes crashing down?? Linux is next.. then what.. FreeBSD. Then FreeBSD is as shitty and crappy as Microsoft. >From: Rick Hamell >To: MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com >CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: RE: basic info on freebsd needed... >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 03:09:04 -0700 (PDT) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 04 10:50:24 1999 >Received: from [204.216.27.18] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id >MHotMailB971C85A0145D82197CBCCD81B1273910; Wed Aug 04 10:50:24 1999 >Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538)id 252CE153EB; Wed, >4 Aug 1999 10:49:54 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])by hub.freebsd.org >(Postfix) with SMTPid 044941CD665; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:49:53 -0700 >(PDT)(envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies) >Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:49:53 >-0700 >Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org >Received: from br3-de0.dnsmgr.net (br3-de0.dnsmgr.net [198.145.92.3])by >hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD01A151C5for >; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:49:46 -0700 >(PDT)(envelope-from hamellr@hamell.hpc1.com) >Received: from heorot.hamell.hpc1.com (host74-172.iwbc.net >[216.228.74.172])by br3-de0.dnsmgr.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id >KAA61032;Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:57:32 -0700 (PDT)(envelope-from >hamellr@hamell.hpc1.com) >In-Reply-To: >Message-ID: > >Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Precedence: bulk > > > > Well, I did not intend this to be a complaint, so cool your jets. Of > > course you are correct, if anybody who wanted a particular feature would > > get their act together and wrote it then Windows would be dead by now. > > Unluckily it was not meant to be a complaint either...:) Merely >playing devils advocate to a certain point. I would love to see Microsoft >dead, not because I see it as a bad product, but because I do not agree >with the ethics of the company and Mr. Bill. > > > hobby/niche area. Funny then how much official FreeBSD communication > > (Web/newsletter) is spent on 'advocacy'. If it was truly just a hobby, > > then why try to convince other people of its merits? > > To get other people into the hobby. It's a ego thing. If other >people are using and enjoying your work then wouldn't that make you feel >good too? If they can in addition sell it with a nice book then turn the >profits back into the hobby itself, wouldn't that be even better in the >long run. You would then have the money to really do those things you >wanted to do but couldn't afford to do out of pocket before. I.e. the >current incarnation of ftp.cdrom.com Which in turns gets the hobby out to >still more people who would enjoy it and stroke your ego. > > > If you expect me to pay (I have) and shut up (I won't) then I'm afraid > > you're behaving like the proverbial Microsoft. The least I expect that > > happens with my money is that it funds future development and therefore > > buys me the right to give inputs. What else does it mean when 'Walnut > > Creek passes part of the money paid back to the FreeBSD project' ? >(thanks > > for the quote, Adam) Do you think I just pay because I'm such a nice > > person and it's oh so nice to fund these nice programmers with their >nice > > hobby? > > I give them my money to further their vision, as I agree with the >direction they're taking it. They have the knowledge and time to do the >really important stuff, like make the core parts of the system better and >faster, add support for newer hardware architectures, etc, etc. > In turn, my involvement in the project has been avocating it when >I can. Helping others installing and getting things configured. Sitting >down for long hours to figure out how something works, in detail, so that >I better my knowledge of computers (and hopefully soon programming,) I've >been working to get a Portland FreeBSD Users Group up and going so that >the local community can support and advocate the project as a whole. > But.... it is still nothing more then a hobby for me. I run >FreeBSD at home almost exclusivly because I'm tired of trying to figure >out why Windows crashed just because I clicked on one icon. I'm tired of >trying to figure out why my registry is corrupted three days after a fresh >install. I'm tired of constantly playing Microsoft's upgrade game. Oh, >Office 2000? No thanks... I've got Office V.2, V.5, V.6, V.95 and >V.97.... why would I want it? Oh... because not a single old version can >read the new word format. So lets shell out another $150 or so for an >upgrade, the only differance between it and the full install (and >another $100) being a few lines of code that looks for the old >installation. > Windows resides on a small slice in my machine because I got into >computers by playing games. I'm still a gamer at heart and love spending >hours exploring the vision and imagination of others. I'm taking the time >to explore FreeBSD in the same way, so that I too can someday contribute >to the project in a meaningful way. So that I can add to my resume >'FreeBSD Committer,' or even more remotly possibly 'FreeBSD Core Team >Member.' > > > Face it: FreeBSD has become a commercial product and you cannot have it > > both ways. If you value the people who code that much higher than the > > people who pay I'm afraid that thinking is stuck in pre-industrial times > > where division of labour as a concept was still to be discovered. > > I just still don't agree with you on this. I dimly remeber Rod and >Jordan discussing getting a 501C Non-profit whatyamacallit for the FreeBSD >Project only a year or so ago. I don't know what came of that, but how >does a commercial (make money for profit,) make money with a non-profit >status? > As for who I value, I still value those who contribute to the >project, wether it be money from buying the manual and the 4 CD set, to >the core team members itself, to the guy who downloaded it off the ftp >site, installed once had no problems and helps others on the mailing list >or tells others about it. I do not value the person who sits around a says >'FreeBSD must have this feature or it will be dead within a year.' (Not >that I'm saying you do that, again just trying to play devils advocate to >a certain point here. :) > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 15:29: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E255D14A2E for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-175.charm.net [209.143.116.175]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21571; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A8BD5C.47A5EBF7@charm.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:23:25 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Daniel Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, Linux Subject: Re: [Fwd: Joke] It is sort of a joke -d References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Daniel wrote: > > The joke was sorta funny ... But the most interesting thing is that there > is a linux group at UMBC (University of Maryland Baltimore County ) and > here I sit on the Campus and didn't even think to ask If there is a > freebsd support group. Anybody on the list at UMBC? I have a project I'm > going to be working on and it might be fun to have a partner in crime a > > Freebsd box ( 3.2stable) > xfree86 > kde > gateway to cable modem for network > mr house (x10) > firewall > samba server > apache intranet w/php( have to build an interface for work) > > also I'm hoping to get vmware running on a linux box( I'm not sure if I > can get it running on freebsd) > > so many toys so little time... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "I hope that after I die, people will say of me : " That guy sure owed me > a lot of money." > > -JH > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Dutch Collins wrote: > > > This needs to be extended; FreeBSD, OpenBSD, you get the idea. I am > > not really ready to extend this, but someone may. > > > > -d The Linux group has BSD people in it, but, there is nobody at the center of the BSD users. Maybe the BSD Users Group can be a reality. I have some time but I am not a card carrying LUG member yet. Plus, I am not sure how long I will have some time. Do this, do that, you never know. Last, I need to get to the next LUG meeting anyway, try subscribing to the UMBC list. Great, can't find the address or the URL, did some netscape upgradeing and my old addressbook is around here somewhere (floppy). -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 18:22: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5D114CC3 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:21:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15203; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:21:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990805112106.C13504@caamora.com.au> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:21:06 +1000 From: jonathan michaels To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com on Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 06:12:29PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 06:12:29PM +0200, MICHAEL_HEITMEIER@HP-Germany-om12.om.hp.com wrote: > b) FreeBSD could be made more user friendly. i would laso like to say that adding a gui (graphical user interface) does not automatically render a computing system 'user friendly'. no matter the application level, from the operating system itself to any other minor task that might be run by the system as a whole. user freindliness relies on one basic tenent, that being the fact that the user is familiar with the task(s) at hand. dumbing down an operating system tot he same level as teh users dose nobody any favours ... sorry, this is a fact of life. regards jonathan -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 4 19:59:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66CC14E71 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:59:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id TAA08199 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:59:07 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:59:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Joke] It is sort of a joke -d In-Reply-To: <37A891F3.167486E5@charm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Its odd, I saw this first in CLUG (chicago lug), the next few days in SVLUG (Silicon Valley LUG), and now here. A bit odd... I also remember seeing the same thing or something similar without the linux bit tacked on years ago, which was obviously added later for advocacy. (I think they removed others, like OS/2, when updating it) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 5 5:20:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A725154D3 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 05:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-197.charm.net [209.143.116.197]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14640; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A9818E.6605AFAB@charm.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:20:30 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Manes Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Joke] It is sort of a joke -d References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ben Manes wrote: > > Its odd, I saw this first in CLUG (chicago lug), the next few days in > SVLUG (Silicon Valley LUG), and now here. A bit odd... I also remember > seeing the same thing or something similar without the linux bit tacked > on years ago, which was obviously added later for advocacy. (I think they > removed others, like OS/2, when updating it) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Ain't the net fun, someone could add OS/2 back. W something, right. Bent Airways sounds good. Just imagine the joke with a list of editors and a GPL copyleft/right notice to scroll through. -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 5 9:54:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu (exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu [206.81.198.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C452154ED for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hodeleri@seattleu.edu) Received: from seattleu.edu (ppp4.pm2a.wport.com [206.129.99.54]) by exegrnnts001.seattleu.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PKDHWPS5; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:52:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37A8FE92.44AB6809@seattleu.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 20:01:38 -0700 From: Eric Hodel Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dutch Collins Cc: David Wolfskill , bcc9746@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... References: <199908041415.HAA51049@pau-amma.whistle.com> <37A84EB9.7C846244@charm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dutch Collins wrote: > I have my video set to 1024x768. The only micro sized print is in the mail > folder list. I am taking a look at the preferences.ja (?) file for any > setting that netscape wants non-modifiable. Check out developer.netscape.com (or is it devedge.netscape.com) I was messing around in there and found something on writing more advanced Javascript mail filters for the prefs.js file. Mozilla 5/Gecko 1 is approaching usability across the board, and it looks very good too. -- Eric Hodel hodeleri@seattleu.edu "They cook your gonies" -Terry Lambert's uncle on why he doesn't have a microwave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 5 16: 2:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A63155AE for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:02:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-116-130.charm.net [209.143.116.130]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17978; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37AA1783.AF36E8BA@charm.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 19:00:19 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Hodel Cc: David Wolfskill , bcc9746@garnet.acns.fsu.edu, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: basic info on freebsd needed... References: <199908041415.HAA51049@pau-amma.whistle.com> <37A84EB9.7C846244@charm.net> <37A8FE92.44AB6809@seattleu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Hodel wrote: > > Dutch Collins wrote: > > > I have my video set to 1024x768. The only micro sized print is in the mail > > folder list. I am taking a look at the preferences.ja (?) file for any > > setting that netscape wants non-modifiable. > > Check out developer.netscape.com (or is it devedge.netscape.com) I was > messing around in there and found something on writing more advanced > Javascript mail filters for the prefs.js file. Mozilla 5/Gecko 1 is > approaching usability across the board, and it looks very good too. > > -- > Eric Hodel > hodeleri@seattleu.edu > > "They cook your gonies" > -Terry Lambert's uncle on why he doesn't have a microwave Thanks!!! The eyes keep telling me to go back to Pine. Haven't looked in the .js file yet. I have noticed the micro sized print is also displayed on some web pages. That new stuff may be the fix. It is developer.x.x I think. I'll walk around netscape till I find it. -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 5 16:55:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mailo.vtcif.telstra.com.au (mailo.vtcif.telstra.com.au [202.12.144.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D521F156F5 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:55:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from LCruz@vcomcss1.telstra.com.au) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mailo.vtcif.telstra.com.au (8.8.2/8.6.9) id JAA18739 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:53:41 +1000 (EST) Received: from maili.vtcif.telstra.com.au(202.12.142.17) via SMTP by mailo.vtcif.telstra.com.au, id smtpd8CRV__; Fri Aug 6 09:53:15 1999 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by maili.vtcif.telstra.com.au (8.8.2/8.6.9) id JAA05687 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:53:14 +1000 (EST) Received: from mail.cdn.telstra.com.au(144.135.138.138) via SMTP by maili.vtcif.telstra.com.au, id smtpdbsXP2_; Fri Aug 6 09:52:38 1999 Received: from ntmsg0011.corpmail.telstra.com.au (ntmsg0011.corpmail.telstra.com.au [172.85.14.20]) by mail.cdn.telstra.com.au (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA00009 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:52:37 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199908052352.JAA00009@mail.cdn.telstra.com.au> Received: by ntmsg0011.corpmail.telstra.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:52:38 +1000 From: "Cruz, Lito [IBM GSA]" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: video nVidia TNT2 and sound CMI8338 chips Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:49:35 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BEDF9D.98B2A3BA" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BEDF9D.98B2A3BA Content-Type: text/plain Hello, I wonder if this is the place to post this question, I have read the charter but if I misunderstood the purpose of this list please accept my apologies. Here it is... I have Linux installed on my PIII with the above video and sound cards. They are working happily. I heard that freeBSD , overall is better than Linux , so I want to see if there is any truth to this. My problem are the following: 1.) The above video card (Viper V770)is not supported by the latest XFree86 at this time, that is why I have to download from nVidia their linux XFree86 driver. No use pointing me to XFree86 web page, i have been there and have done that and it did not have the answers.Has anyone of you got this video card chip running on your machine? The source is available for this driver, should I recompile it under freeBSD? 2.) The sound card (Audio Excel 16 compaitble ) chip I have is CMI8338. Again, I have downloaded their driver for Linux, the source is available, after compiling the module and installing, it worked, in Linux. Has anyone got this chip running on their freeBSD? If so could you please help. I guess what I am getting at is this, if a driver is working in Linux, would it also work after compiling with freeBSD? If not, then a porting excercise is necessary, is this correct? Better yet, if anyone out there has got these going on their freeBSD then I would be appreciative if you could point me in the directions you've taken. Gracias Lito Cruz ...ex nihilo, nihil fit... ------_=_NextPart_000_01BEDF9D.98B2A3BA Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAqAAAAdmlkZW8gblZpZGlhIFROVDIgYW5kIHNvdW5kIENN STgzMzggY2hpcHMAfA0BCYABACEAAAAwREQ2ODZDMjhBNEJEMzExQTE2RDAwMTA0QjE1Q0Y1RQAl BwEggAMADgAAAM8HCAAGAAkANAAlAAUASwEBBYADAA4AAADPBwgABgAJADEAIwAFAEYBAQ2ABAAC AAAAAgACAAEDkAYAdAkAACkAAAALAAIAAQAAAEAAOQAwYxwsnd++AR4AcAABAAAAKgAAAHZpZGVv IG5WaWRpYSBUTlQyIGFuZCBzb3VuZCBDTUk4MzM4IGNoaXBzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb7fnSwa wobWDkuKEdOhbQAQSxXPXgAAAgEJEAEAAACgBAAAnAQAAEEHAABMWkZ1jxFETAMACgByY3BnMTI1 0jIA+zM2AeggAqQD4wkCAGNoCsBzZXQwPiAHEwKDAFADVBC5V2nhAQAgTGF0C4ACgw5QYwLyELlU YWgDcQKAfbkKgXVjAFALAwtgbg4QCDAzMwumIEhlbB0JACwKogqECoBJIHeLAiAEgSAGkCB0aAQA XxkwBCAZcBNgC1FjE2B0sm8aIG9zBUAZc3EKUGUa4GkCICwgGLAQ4HazE2AJcGFkGeMQ0nQZEVxi dQVAGUEYsG0EAHX7GPIa4G8EcBnkCHAawRNg+m8ZVWwEAAVAC1AcgB+B5wDQGmAFMW15IOAawAkA 8mcIkHMuF/oXkAlwGTBfHaEiECOQF/wcI0wLgHX+eBkwAIABkBewCYAfoAOguSFhUEkmYBjAI0Bo GeP1AaBvHEF2E0EaoABwHKD2cwhgKAFjCxEiEBUgGgCnIXEjERjQcmsLgGccEfRwcAMQeSjgI80c gAsgGxlhE5AgA1AJ4EJTRLYgG+AnUXIlkRmyYhEgfx1CK+EDoCT0G+AoMBvxd/8AcBrxGqARECMh GVIjAwQg8wBwIXB0ch2QJtEaoBlyNSIrTSFwcANgAmBlbb8pQxnyAhAXsQPwFqA6F/o4MS4pKPIn KyiSICgGVgUgGRFWNzcwKfkZkW5vBUAeMCowCRElwT5iMLEaAQtgHUAa4VhG+QnRODYg4Br1E6AH gBvgcyvjGZF3aCFwHAUakWR9M+BuCQAckQNSN3A2oGT7BzAZ4mkFwCAwJRI5Rjvw1wUQLOEo4E4a oHUfgRrAPwuAE6Ep8AeAGoI5Rndl0mIaIGFnOnFpHBQtgN8J8C/1J/IcIzwAbjNCLAH/J/IjQT0Q HKA3gjuEJwIAgPNBABEALkggsDCCQ2IfsfFGUHUgZzeRGXM16RDQ/wUgHGAeQAMAKeEl8UbRBcC3 AMEZgENwPzUzKDFyGmH9MGJ2C3ALYDLRM5Et0hmR5z6kLqEVUHVsHKAYsAlw/QWgbSpBIyMeQywm ShAX+s4yNRUoODaAQXU9EBqg7EV4GmADIDE5oE1yC3A/AlETYDUgSFMcBRmRQ02USTgW4Dgo4EFn C3H/G+c8BiXBPVQ+pEujJPM6gvdKX0tiG+BhAYAZEU10KdL/GfIEYUzwQqQlVSnRQYEFQP8pkgmA QYEuJSjgRflHF0he+z1UTodJGVAuwQWgTPJG0tMghRoAbHAjvWcbcTsC+ywBGLBhMwBBYAJAKdI6 xP8ZckGBGVA9MFZFOvIppVxW/xvgGNBM8iNBB0AuwSmSWO//JqNfmjeBV0MDoD0wN/Ip0v5lUYFK oAQAMENDcBpgBBBdCsB5QYFkhFHxck1RdPVKEEItlHkRIGTkRkUdkf8wBBDgBCBHFAeQXYJezyxy /2qjGLJM8i2AIYEyoAWQBzD/E6BTYka0YIQ/k0ASXFEZ8l89EG3CG7EEIEbRJzuiYfVcAG4iK0ct AHPBEKAYCdcX+iTwGpFDMOB6PoAX9A8qmwr0AKAR8nMxNyD3I5FrkDdwaRmAF8F9dD6A9mYjQCOS aQLRDlB72Qu2CxgDFbEAgQADAP0/UgMAAAsABIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAA AwAGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABS hQAAtw0AAB4AAYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADAAOACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAH gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADAAmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAA AAAAAB4ACoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAAuACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAMgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAAAeADFAAQAAAA4AAABMQ1JVWkU4MTlDRjU3AAAAAwAa QAAAAAAeADBAAQAAAA4AAABMQ1JVWkU4MTlDRjU3AAAAAwAZQAAAAAADAIAQ/////wIB+T8BAAAA ZQAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAYAAAAvTz1URUxTVFJBL09VPVFMRCBLSU5HU0ZP UkQtU01JVEgvQ049TVMgTUFJTCBSRUNJUElFTlRTL0NOPUxDUlVaRTgxOUNGNTcAAAAAHgD4PwEA AAAVAAAAQ3J1eiwgTGl0byBbSUJNIEdTQV0AAAAAHgA4QAEAAAAOAAAATENSVVpFODE5Q0Y1NwAA AAIB+z8BAAAAZQAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAYAAAAvTz1URUxTVFJBL09VPVFM RCBLSU5HU0ZPUkQtU01JVEgvQ049TVMgTUFJTCBSRUNJUElFTlRTL0NOPUxDUlVaRTgxOUNGNTcA AAAAHgD6PwEAAAAVAAAAQ3J1eiwgTGl0byBbSUJNIEdTQV0AAAAAHgA5QAEAAAAOAAAATENSVVpF ODE5Q0Y1NwAAAEAABzAwGUl+mt++AUAACDC6o7KYnd++AR4APQABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAB0OAQAA ACoAAAB2aWRlbyBuVmlkaWEgVE5UMiBhbmQgc291bmQgQ01JODMzOCBjaGlwcwAAAAsAKQAAAAAA CwAjAAAAAAADAAYQ9e+LzAMABxCoBAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAwAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhFTExP LElXT05ERVJJRlRISVNJU1RIRVBMQUNFVE9QT1NUVEhJU1FVRVNUSU9OLElIQVZFUkVBRFRIRUNI QVJURVJCVVRJRklNSVNVTkRFUlNUT09EVEhFUFVSUE9TRU9GVEgAAAAAEWE= ------_=_NextPart_000_01BEDF9D.98B2A3BA-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 5 19: 9:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B98514E58 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:09:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rfrizza@nb.net) Received: (qmail 26260 invoked from network); 6 Aug 1999 02:07:46 -0000 Received: from rfrizza-v.oakmont.nb.net (HELO gateway) (209.161.88.253) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 1999 02:07:46 -0000 Message-ID: <007a01bedfb0$3d3871a0$0100a8c0@gateway> From: "rfrizza" To: Subject: Need help with install - Panic: page fault Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:06:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am trying to install FreeBSD on an old 486DX4 100. 32 meg of ram. Wester Digital 3.1 gig hard drive. The motherboard is a "Baby AT Form Factor ISA/VESA" Local Bus (I've taken the board back to the original defaults). I have a Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16 Sound card (Soundblaster 2.0) and a Media Vision SCSI cdrom (Mitsumi FX-001). The modem is a DataTek generic modem which setup doesn't recognize. No network card at present. The problem: I can't get past the initial setup where it probes for all of the drivers. It has repeatedly stop at the exact same spot with the exact same error no matter what I tell it to do. If I could obtain some insight into what the below means then I should be able to understand how to proceed. I am a PC programming - understanding programming languages - but this is all new to me - the reason why I wanted to install FreeBSD in the first place. Special hint: I have always had a problem installing the cdrom and soundcard. Doesn't matter what version of MS operating system I install - it insist on giving me a hard time. I have learned, over time, how to beat it but this is a whole new OS and I haven't even seen what it looks like or how it reacts...YET!!! Last item probed: npx0 at 0xf0-0xff irq 13 on motherboard Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x6adb fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0x6adb stack pointer = 0x10:0xc0603e58 frame pointer = 0x10:0xc0603e74 code segment =base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1,def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interupt enable, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 () interupt mask = net tty bio cam trap number = 12 Panic: page fault Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time, Bob rfrizza@nb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 6 22:33: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.davidv.net (davidv.net [205.241.169.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD93914D0B for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@davidv.net) Received: from workbox (workbox.davidv.net [205.241.169.122]) by ns1.davidv.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA03579 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 00:31:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908070531.AAA03579@ns1.davidv.net> X-Sender: david@205.241.169.123 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 00:30:22 -0500 To: From: David Vondrasek Subject: Quick Apache Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone tell me the line that I need to the conf to stop getting FORBIDDEN errors on a directory with no index.html file ? went to Apache/1.3.6 and this started. I *like* to be able to see a directory contents. Thanks Dave David Vondrasek http://www.davidv.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Aug 7 6:40:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from freemail.c3.hu (fm2.freemail.hu [194.38.105.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C0D414FEF for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 06:40:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mico@fmdb.c3.hu) Received: (qmail 7683 invoked from network); 7 Aug 1999 13:38:15 -0000 Received: from dial2-46.c3.hu (HELO fmdb.c3.hu) (194.38.96.240) by fm2.freemail.hu with SMTP; 7 Aug 1999 15:38:15 +0200 Received: from mico by fmdb.c3.hu with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11D5La-00004x-00; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:13:10 +0200 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:13:10 +0200 From: mico@musician.org To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd_RAID? & trobules with installation Message-ID: <19990807141310.F173@musician.org> Reply-To: mico@musician.org Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i X-Operating-System: Linux fmdb.c3.hu 2.0.36 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hellow, I've heard lots of good things about FreeBSD, and i installed it. Okey, but i can't set the partition sizes during the installation, except for the partition mounted as /usr. When i try to set the root or /var >32m, it makes some beep saying it's too big. It's funny because when i boot two or three times, /var gets full, (probably beacuse of the tmp dir). Any ideas? (Or i just have to install it more carefully...) The other question... Does the kernel support software RAID? (like linux) Hello Mico To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message