From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Sep 9 21: 9:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from web13607.mail.yahoo.com (web13607.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 053BB37B405 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010910040911.33587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.16.193.228] by web13607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Sep 2001 21:09:11 PDT Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 21:09:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Bzdik BSD Subject: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, would it help if we all start bugging local libraries to get a book or two on FreeBSD? I just requested to do so a local community college and a public library to get Ms Anderson's book. (as well as the one by Mt Mittelspiel). "FreeBSD Unleashed" is coming too. What do you think? The authorship is not a profitable pastime at all, I'd be schilling differently :)) Best, B P.S. Btw, Anderson's book is a chef's d'oeuvre - not an easy task to make an easy read on a subject like that. Excellent product. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 7:32: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-57-209.knology.net [24.214.57.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E70B37B401; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dkelly@localhost) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f8AEVrO90365; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:31:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:31:53 -0500 From: David Kelly To: Bzdik BSD Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries Message-ID: <20010910093153.A90211@grumpy.dyndns.org> References: <20010910040911.33587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010910040911.33587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com>; from bzdik@yahoo.com on Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 09:09:11PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 09:09:11PM -0700, Bzdik BSD wrote: > Hi All, > > would it help if we all start bugging local libraries to get a book or > two on FreeBSD? I just requested to do so a local community college > and > a public library to get Ms Anderson's book. (as well as the one by Mt > Mittelspiel). "FreeBSD Unleashed" is coming too. What do you think? I think the best way to "bug" a library to offer a book for lending is to purchase one or more and deliver them along with the request. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 7:39:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nwlynx.network-lynx.net (nwlynx.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3443D37B401; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silver-lynx.com (fly.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.98]) by nwlynx.network-lynx.net (8.11.1/8.9.3/Who.Cares) with ESMTP id f8AEd0s42253; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:39:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from don@silver-lynx.com) Message-ID: <3B9CCFCF.A1C5E743@silver-lynx.com> Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:35:59 -0600 From: Don Wilde Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Kelly Cc: Bzdik BSD , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries References: <20010910040911.33587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> <20010910093153.A90211@grumpy.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Kelly wrote: > > I think the best way to "bug" a library to offer a book for lending is > to purchase one or more and deliver them along with the request. > That certainly helps, but I have a caution there: The public libraries in my area claim that they get far too many books donated, and all too often they'll just dump good books (even new ones!) in the book sale bin for quick cash rather than adding them to the collection. You have to specify explicitly that you do not want that to happen. -- Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 9:33:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B5037B401; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f8AGXL726181; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "David Kelly" Cc: "FreeBSD Advocacy" , Subject: RE: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:33:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c13a16$4da2f020$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <20010910093153.A90211@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The libraries here have a website that patrons can put book titles into to request that the library buy them. Usually they are pretty good about purchasing requested books. I imagine that they get so few requests for specific titles as opposed to the total number of books that they buy that satisfying the requests is not a problem for them. After all it is part of their charter. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of David Kelly >Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:32 AM >To: Bzdik BSD >Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries > > >On Sun, Sep 09, 2001 at 09:09:11PM -0700, Bzdik BSD wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> would it help if we all start bugging local libraries to get a book or >> two on FreeBSD? I just requested to do so a local community college >> and >> a public library to get Ms Anderson's book. (as well as the one by Mt >> Mittelspiel). "FreeBSD Unleashed" is coming too. What do you think? > >I think the best way to "bug" a library to offer a book for lending is >to purchase one or more and deliver them along with the request. > >-- >David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net >===================================================================== >The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its >capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 10: 9: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop3pub.verizon.net (smtppop3pub.gte.net [206.46.170.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8922537B403; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gte.net (evrtwa1-ar4-4-34-145-186.evrtwa1.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.145.186]) by smtppop3pub.verizon.net with ESMTP ; id MAA3115427 Mon, 10 Sep 2001 12:08:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from res03db2@localhost) by gte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA66647; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:10:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:10:10 -0700 From: Robert Clark To: Don Wilde Cc: David Kelly , Bzdik BSD , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries Message-ID: <20010910101010.B66603@darkstar.gte.net> References: <20010910040911.33587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> <20010910093153.A90211@grumpy.dyndns.org> <3B9CCFCF.A1C5E743@silver-lynx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <3B9CCFCF.A1C5E743@silver-lynx.com>; from don@silver-lynx.com on Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 08:35:59AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There are often people who are paid to buy books. I would imagine that they might resent outsiders determining what is in the library's collection. [RC] On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 08:35:59AM -0600, Don Wilde wrote: > David Kelly wrote: > > > > I think the best way to "bug" a library to offer a book for lending is > > to purchase one or more and deliver them along with the request. > > > That certainly helps, but I have a caution there: The public libraries > in my area claim that they get far too many books donated, and all too > often they'll just dump good books (even new ones!) in the book sale bin > for quick cash rather than adding them to the collection. You have to > specify explicitly that you do not want that to happen. > -- > Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com > Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects > 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 > 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 11: 3:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from web12301.mail.yahoo.com (web12301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A538E37B405 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010910180350.51387.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.194.56.253] by web12301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:03:50 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:03:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Wilson Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries To: Robert Clark Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010910101010.B66603@darkstar.gte.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --- Robert Clark wrote: > > There are often people who are paid to buy books. > > I would imagine that they might resent outsiders > determining what is in the library's collection. Certainly not at the library I worked at, and I highly doubt at any. I mean, yes, buying books is one of the things paid staff do, but I can't imagine a librarian resenting a member of the public providing input on what should be in the library's collection. Just so long as you don't assume that requesting "Yak Breeding for Dummies" will mean they will buy it. Technology books in particular can be difficult, because they have a short life-span, and because librarians don't always have the expertise to shop for good ones. There may be other barriers, such as CD processing, confusion over copyright etc. The best thing to do is talk to the library. Find out who is in charge of purchasing, and ask what you can do to get books of your choice on the shelf. Request? Donate? They might even appreciate advice on which books are old and outdated and should be weeded. Libraries often work on tight budgets, and welcome all the help they can get, just as long as you don't think that paying taxes entitles you to run the library. ===== : __o : -\<, : 0/ 0 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 15:30:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.102.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5244937B401; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.11.1/8.11.0) id f8AMZRV66435; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:35:26 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Robert Clark Cc: Don Wilde , David Kelly , Bzdik BSD , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries Message-ID: <20010910153526.B65659@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <20010910040911.33587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> <20010910093153.A90211@grumpy.dyndns.org> <3B9CCFCF.A1C5E743@silver-lynx.com> <20010910101010.B66603@darkstar.gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010910101010.B66603@darkstar.gte.net>; from res03db2@gte.net on Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 10:10:10AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 10:10:10AM -0700, Robert Clark wrote: > There are often people who are paid to buy books. > > I would imagine that they might resent outsiders > determining what is in the library's collection. The libraries that I am familiar with express their resentment by providing outsiders (whom they call "patrons") with little cards or even online forms on which to specify their requests. While you might expect them to use these cards to start a bonfire or similar festivity, I have found that they instead use them as an indication of what books they might want to buy, and sometimes even notify the "outsider" when the volume has been added to the collection. -- Matthew Hunt * UNIX is a lever for the http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * intellect. -J.R. Mashey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 15:48:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C237537B403; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA53009; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:47:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:47:40 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Matthew Hunt Cc: Robert Clark , Don Wilde , David Kelly , Bzdik BSD , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries Message-ID: <20010910184740.A52972@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20010910040911.33587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> <20010910093153.A90211@grumpy.dyndns.org> <3B9CCFCF.A1C5E743@silver-lynx.com> <20010910101010.B66603@darkstar.gte.net> <20010910153526.B65659@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010910153526.B65659@wopr.caltech.edu>; from mph@astro.caltech.edu on Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 03:35:26PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, let me advertise both my biases here: I am a recovering university librarian. I am also a forthcoming FreeBSD book author. If you want a book to be added to your library, here's how to go about it. First, fill out a request card, if offered. Believe it or else, you can generally speak with an acquisitions librarian. If you have a book that you're willing to donate, attach a review from a reputable source -- not necessarily the New York Times Review of Books, but amazon.com is at least recognizable. Show it to the acquisitions librarian, and ask if they're interested. If you don't want to lay out the cash first, bring in the review and ask if they'd be interested. Some librarians are petty tyrants who will not accept anything that might interfere with their absolute mastery of all topics in the library. Most, however, are decent people who want to provide good & useful books. If you say, "I'm a professional, I work with this stuff, and I'd like to donate this to the library because I found it very useful for my field" they'll jump on it. Just say, "If you decide to not accept this for the collection, I'd like the book back." Most of what gets donated to the library is, to put it bluntly, crap. Librarians know their patrons. Many donations are sold simply because the librarian has learned through experience that it will never be checked out. At the university where I worked, some books had never been checked out since being acquired in 1958. The university opened in 1957. Shelf space for these dusty tomes is not a minor concern. In short, talk to the acquisitions librarian. Say you'll buy it if they'll shelf it. Give them a review. Most purchasing decisions are based on reviews. On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 03:35:26PM -0700, Matthew Hunt wrote: > On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 10:10:10AM -0700, Robert Clark wrote: > > > There are often people who are paid to buy books. > > > > I would imagine that they might resent outsiders > > determining what is in the library's collection. > > The libraries that I am familiar with express their resentment > by providing outsiders (whom they call "patrons") with little cards > or even online forms on which to specify their requests. > > While you might expect them to use these cards to start a bonfire > or similar festivity, I have found that they instead use them as an > indication of what books they might want to buy, and sometimes even > notify the "outsider" when the volume has been added to the collection. > > -- > Matthew Hunt * UNIX is a lever for the > http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * intellect. -J.R. Mashey > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 18:21:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from web13605.mail.yahoo.com (web13605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E466A37B405 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010911012143.39268.qmail@web13605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.16.193.228] by web13605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:21:43 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:21:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bzdik BSD Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20010910153526.B65659@wopr.caltech.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --- Matthew Hunt wrote: > On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 10:10:10AM -0700, Robert Clark wrote: > > > There are often people who are paid to buy books. > > > > I would imagine that they might resent outsiders > > determining what is in the library's collection. > > The libraries that I am familiar with express their resentment > by providing outsiders (whom they call "patrons") with little cards > or even online forms on which to specify their requests. > > While you might expect them to use these cards to start a bonfire > or similar festivity, I have found that they instead use them as an > indication of what books they might want to buy, and sometimes even > notify the "outsider" when the volume has been added to the > collection. So far, this always worked in my library: slowly, but always with a purchase and notification. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 10 20:21:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from inconnu.isu.edu (inconnu.isu.edu [134.50.8.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B5037B405; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (galt@localhost) by inconnu.isu.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f8B3LK718913; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:21:20 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:21:20 -0600 (MDT) From: John Galt To: Robert Clark Cc: Don Wilde , David Kelly , Bzdik BSD , , Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries In-Reply-To: <20010910101010.B66603@darkstar.gte.net> Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: galt@inconnu.isu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not at a Carnegie library: they have to accept all donated books in good condition or lose funding. On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Robert Clark wrote: > >There are often people who are paid to buy books. > >I would imagine that they might resent outsiders >determining what is in the library's collection. > >[RC] > > >On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 08:35:59AM -0600, Don Wilde wrote: >> David Kelly wrote: >> > >> > I think the best way to "bug" a library to offer a book for lending is >> > to purchase one or more and deliver them along with the request. >> > >> That certainly helps, but I have a caution there: The public libraries >> in my area claim that they get far too many books donated, and all too >> often they'll just dump good books (even new ones!) in the book sale bin >> for quick cash rather than adding them to the collection. You have to >> specify explicitly that you do not want that to happen. >> -- >> Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com >> Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects >> 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 >> 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- void hamlet() {#define question=((bb)||(!bb))} Who is John Galt? galt@inconnu.isu.edu. that's who! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 11 11: 0: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [171.66.112.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC6237B403; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA70196; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: Bzdik BSD Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Books on FreeBSD and local libraries In-Reply-To: <20010910040911.33587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Bzdik BSD wrote: > Hi All, > > would it help if we all start bugging local libraries to get a book or > two on FreeBSD? I just requested to do so a local community college > and > a public library to get Ms Anderson's book. (as well as the one by Mt > Mittelspiel). "FreeBSD Unleashed" is coming too. What do you think? > > The authorship is not a profitable pastime at all, I'd be schilling > differently :)) > > Best, B > > P.S. Btw, Anderson's book is a chef's d'oeuvre - not an easy task to > make an easy read on a subject like that. Excellent product. > > Thank you! Libraries are nice and because the budgets of public libraries are determined by the local politicians, librarians are responsive to the public. (That's why there's so much paperback romantic fiction aimed at women on the shelves.) But this is a highly specific market; the mailing lists and USENET are one way to reach it (and IRC), if "appropriately" done. Lehey does something weekly on -questions. Also there are all those parents out there worried about their kids who spend hours playing computer games and wondering how they can redirect this fascination to something that has more potential for learning. There are computer magazines, hard copy and on-line. I haven't checked slash/dot recently but the initial poster who picked up the announcement about my book asked if anyone wanted to review it. I expressed a willingness on -advocacy to provide review copies (and haven't followed up on all the resulting mail), but most of the responses were from people interested in advising me about how to communicate with new users (that's already baked in the cake, pretty much, except for line-by-line correction of errors); what I wanted was on-line book reviews, of which so far there's only DaemonNews (thanks Linh!). There's always Amazon, too, where no on-line review has yet appeared. A few people have taken the trouble to review Ted Mittelstaedt's wonderful book there. Home schoolers....they number over a million, and parents are heavily involved and in touch with other home-schooling parents and there are many "group" activities. (I spoke to a group of several hundred Bay Area home schoolers about the year's topic for their debate clubs a few years ago.) Annelise To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 12 14:55:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from web20802.mail.yahoo.com (web20802.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 424B537B405 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010912215516.90296.qmail@web20802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.33.193.159] by web20802.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:55:16 PDT Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:55:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Help Victims Subject: Helping victims of terror To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everyone. As many of you are aware, people in Egypt and other countries celebrated the attacks on New York and Washington. Some of these countries receive billions of dollars in aid from the United States. I believe that people who celebrate the deaths of thousands of people do not deserve to receive any aid from those peoples' country. As a result, I've sent letters to representatives in the government, urging them to stop support to these countries. The money should be used to help the victims and their families, and to rebuild what has been destroyed. I'm including a copy of this letter below, and I invite and urge all of you to mail a copy of it to your representatives, or write your own. Please tell your family, friends, coworkers and neighbors. Let's make this as widespread as possible. *** Begin letter *** Dear Senators and Representatives, People in Egypt and other countries were filmed celebrating the September 11 attacks on America that destroyed thousands of lives. These countries receive billions of dollars in foreign aid from us--paid for by those whose lives were destroyed or altered forever by the attack. Their celebrating of these horrible acts show total disrespect and disregard for human lives, not to mention a complete lack of appreciation for the support that has continued to benefit them. I strongly urge you to stop financial aid to these countries. The money should instead go to victims and their families, not to those who celebrated their untimely deaths. And, of course, the money should be used to rebuild the destroyed properties and pay for the expensive investigations and other actions that must take place. The hard-earned money of those who died should NOT go to those who celebrated their deaths. Sincerely, [Your name here] [I suggest including your mailing address] *** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 13 15:54:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-2.enteract.com (smtp-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC1C37B418; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [147.126.50.163] (unknown [147.126.50.163]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEE8E8218; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:54:39 -0500 (CDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:54:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Helping victims of terror From: markemmanuel To: Help Victims , , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20010912215516.90296.qmail@web20802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's a small handful of people who cheered in their respective streets. Let's not forget to look at what they see and how they feel. They've seen us as a threat as you and a few others see them as a threat. We have dehumanized and have shown lack of respect towards others as they have done to us. Is this right? No. Let them be. We need to heal in the united states and do not need hate. Violence begets violence. Revenge is futile but justice is of prime concern. Peace, markemmanuel Quoted from the Book of Help Victims Ch 6:7-13 on 9/12/01 4:55 PM: > Hi everyone. As many of you are aware, people in Egypt and > other countries celebrated the attacks on New York and > Washington. Some of these countries receive billions of > dollars in aid from the United States. I believe that > people who celebrate the deaths of thousands of people do > not deserve to receive any aid from those peoples' country. > As a result, I've sent letters to representatives in the > government, urging them to stop support to these countries. > The money should be used to help the victims and their > families, and to rebuild what has been destroyed. I'm > including a copy of this letter below, and I invite and > urge all of you to mail a copy of it to your representatives, > or write your own. Please tell your family, friends, > coworkers and neighbors. Let's make this as widespread as > possible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 13 16: 4:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3817937B408; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.46.72]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA30C7; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:04:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3BA13B82.B77E8298@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:04:34 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Help Victims Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Helping victims of terror References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG markemmanuel wrote: > We have dehumanized and have shown lack of respect towards others as they > have done to us. Is this right? No. Let them be. We need to heal in the > united states and do not need hate. Violence begets violence. Revenge is > futile but justice is of prime concern. Correct. The tiny handful of cheering people in the Gaza Strip are insignificant compared to that picture of Yassar Arafat donating blood. It may be politically motivated, but it sends a clear message from Palestine that New York's tragedy is the world's tragedy. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 13 16:17:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-2.enteract.com (smtp-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8292937B409; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [147.126.50.163] (unknown [147.126.50.163]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83F568258; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:17:13 -0500 (CDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:17:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Helping victims of terror From: markemmanuel To: David Johnson Cc: Advocacy FreeBSD , Questions FreeBSD Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3BA13B82.B77E8298@acuson.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Unfortunately, I just started getting hate mail for my statements. People are calling me weak or something like that for not hating my brothers and sisters that are not of the same citizenship, race, or culture. Peace, --markemmanuel Quoted from the Book of David Johnson Ch 6:7-13 on 9/13/01 6:04 PM: > Correct. The tiny handful of cheering people in the Gaza Strip are > insignificant compared to that picture of Yassar Arafat donating blood. > It may be politically motivated, but it sends a clear message from > Palestine that New York's tragedy is the world's tragedy. > > David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 13 16:35:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6882837B40B; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.46.72]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA4110; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:35:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3BA142AF.2E5A7263@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:35:11 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: markemmanuel Cc: Advocacy FreeBSD , Questions FreeBSD Subject: Re: Helping victims of terror References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG markemmanuel wrote: > > Unfortunately, I just started getting hate mail for my statements. People > are calling me weak or something like that for not hating my brothers and > sisters that are not of the same citizenship, race, or culture. Unfortunately, it looks like the criminals who did this act are winning. They are laughing at us. We are too busy fighting each other to join together. When we start lynching our brothers and sisters we will be no better than those who flew the planes. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 13 23:19:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from out1.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (out1.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D1E37B407 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pop3.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (pop3.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.1.83]) by out1.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.11.4/8.11.4/1.7) with ESMTP id f8E6JSu20615; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:19:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from john.execpc.com (d58.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net [169.207.128.186]) by pop3.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f8E6JLX28144; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:19:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010914011138.0295b838@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: fpawlak/mail.execpc.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:19:53 -0500 To: markemmanuel , David Johnson From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Helping victims of terror Cc: Advocacy FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: <3BA13B82.B77E8298@acuson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Unfortunately, this world has not lost the requisite number of bigots. One thing to keep in mind regarding bigots, their ignorance is coincident with their levels of hatred and bigotry. Anyone showing sensitivity toward their fellow man is sure to turn over the rocks under which they live. They are no more than cowards that hide behind the anonymity of email. The delete key deals with that stuff just fine. Peace, Frank At 06:17 PM 9/13/2001 -0500, markemmanuel wrote: >Unfortunately, I just started getting hate mail for my statements. People >are calling me weak or something like that for not hating my brothers and >sisters that are not of the same citizenship, race, or culture. > >Peace, >--markemmanuel > >Quoted from the Book of David Johnson Ch 6:7-13 on 9/13/01 6:04 PM: > > > Correct. The tiny handful of cheering people in the Gaza Strip are > > insignificant compared to that picture of Yassar Arafat donating blood. > > It may be politically motivated, but it sends a clear message from > > Palestine that New York's tragedy is the world's tragedy. > > > > David > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 14 11:49: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9249937B40E; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b093.otenet.gr [195.167.121.221]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f8EImqd15567; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:48:53 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f8EHCpx12298; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:12:51 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from charon@labs.gr) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:12:51 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: markemmanuel Cc: David Johnson , Advocacy FreeBSD , Questions FreeBSD Subject: Re: Helping victims of terror Message-ID: <20010914201250.A5293@hades.hell.gr> References: <3BA13B82.B77E8298@acuson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from lists@markemmanuel.org on Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 06:17:12PM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: markemmanuel Subject: Re: Helping victims of terror Date: Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 06:17:12PM -0500 > Unfortunately, I just started getting hate mail for my statements. People > are calling me weak or something like that for not hating my brothers and > sisters that are not of the same citizenship, race, or culture. > > Peace, > --markemmanuel It is always like this, with hatred and good will. A thousand of those messages, is worth nothing compared to a handful of messages saying 'thank you, for being human'. Weakness is not to be civil towards fellow humans, regardless of their race, culture, religion, nationality, and beliefs. Weakness is to give in to the rage that one might feel, when seeing other people hurt, and become evil too in the hope that a greater evilness will stop the lesser one. But who needs a greater evilness? No one. We all need to sympathize and express our discomfort to the fact that people in the USA or elsewhere are being mistreated, hurt, abused, killed, every passing day, and help them feel better.. we do not need more 'angels of vengeance' on this planet. A few more 'angels of help' would be most fitting to the lot, though. Just my humble non-USA-citizen opinion, -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 14 19: 9:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50D237B40E for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b073.otenet.gr [195.167.121.201]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f8F29md10826; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 05:09:48 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f8F2ACH94435; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 05:10:12 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from charon@labs.gr) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 05:10:11 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: "Kevin G. Eliuk" Cc: markemmanuel , David Johnson , Advocacy FreeBSD Subject: Re: Helping victims of terror Message-ID: <20010915051011.B89347@hades.hell.gr> References: <3BA13B82.B77E8298@acuson.com> <20010914201250.A5293@hades.hell.gr> <3BA2B771.5CC85177@dccnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3BA2B771.5CC85177@dccnet.com>; from kg@dccnet.com on Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 07:05:37PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin G. Eliuk wrote: > Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > We all need > > to sympathize and express our discomfort to the fact that people in the USA > > or elsewhere are being mistreated, hurt, abused, killed, every passing day, > > and help them feel better.. we do not need more 'angels of vengeance' on this > > planet. A few more 'angels of help' would be most fitting to the lot, though. > > > > Just my humble non-USA-citizen opinion, > > Here, here. > > Could we ask of our documentation committers to put up a message of peace, and > of course sorrow for this terrible tragedy which has rocked our continent. At > this time we really need to support understanding for our international > brothers, some of whom, have experienced this type of tragedy in the past. Count my vote for this too. I don't really have the PR expertise to make such a message a reality, but this is a great idea. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message