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From: Василий
Subject: Ваша заработная плата!
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Здравствуйте, извините если я Вас отвлёк от важных государственных дел.
Просто я хотел бы предложить Вам заработать на чай, кофе, потанцуем или на пиво, водка, полежим (каждому своё)
Несмотря на то, что это всетаки пирамидка. С неё можно реально зарабатывать в месяц от 1000руб. до 5000руб
Это не золотые горы, но зато надёжно.
Если вам это интересно, то пишите, а если нет, то извините за беспокойство.
Продолжайте заниматься важными государственными делами.
С уважением, Василий.
PS: Я лично зарабатываю 500-1500руб в месяц
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From owner-freebsd-www Sun Sep 8 7:38:53 2002
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From: Василий
Subject: Ваша заработная плата!
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Здравствуйте, извините если я Вас отвлёк от важных государственных дел.
Просто я хотел бы предложить Вам заработать на чай, кофе, потанцуем или на пиво, водка, полежим (каждому своё)
Несмотря на то, что это всетаки пирамидка. С неё можно реально зарабатывать в месяц от 1000руб.
Это не золотые горы, но зато надёжно.
Если вам это интересно, то пишите, а если нет, то извините за беспокойство.
Продолжайте заниматься важными государственными делами.
С уважением, Василий.
PS: Я лично зарабатываю 500-1500руб в месяц
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From owner-freebsd-www Mon Sep 9 8:24:49 2002
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Subject: recherche piolote pour Davicom 9102 PCI sous W98
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Merci
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From owner-freebsd-www Tue Sep 10 10:41:20 2002
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From: Dominic Marks
Subject: Re: www/42512: Increase readability of USENIX summit document
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The following reply was made to PR www/42512; it has been noted by GNATS.
From: Dominic Marks
To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org
Cc: dominic_marks@btinternet.com, jim@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: www/42512: Increase readability of USENIX summit document
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:34:59 +0100
And now, a patch which actually applies cleanly:
Index: usenix-devsummit.sgml
===================================================================
RCS file: /media/cvs/freebsd/www/en/events/2002/usenix-devsummit.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -3 -p -r1.5 usenix-devsummit.sgml
--- usenix-devsummit.sgml 4 Sep 2002 20:43:01 -0000 1.5
+++ usenix-devsummit.sgml 10 Sep 2002 17:19:01 -0000
@@ -47,40 +47,44 @@ Stokely.
Attending:
-In person:
+Committers in person:
+
+ - Robert Watson (rwatson)
+ - Julian Elischer(julian)
+ - John Baldwin(jhb)
+ - Matt Dillon (dillon)
+ - David O'Brien (obrien)
+ - Jeffery Hsu (hsu)
+ - Jennifer Yang (jennifer)
+ - Bosko Milekic (bmilekic)
+ - Alfred Perlstein (alfred)
+ - Doug Rabson (dfr)
+ - Paul Saab (ps)
+ - Brooks Davis (brooks)
+ - Murray Stokely (murray)
+ - Jonathan Mini (mini)
+ - Takanori Watanabe (takawata)
+ - Gordon Tetlow (gordon)
+ - Gregory Shapiro (gshapiro)
+ - Sam Leffler (sam)
+ - Bruce Mah (bmah)
+
+
+Also in person:
- - Robert Watson (RW)
- - Julian Elischer(JE)
- - John Baldwin(JB)
- - Matt Dillon (MD)
- - David O'Brian (DO)
- - Jeffery Xu (JX)
- - Jennifer Ying (JY)
- - Bosko Milekic (BM)
- - Alfred Perlstein (AP)
- - Doug Rabson (DR)
- - Paul Saab (PS)
- - Brooks Davis (BD)
- - Murray Stokely (MS)
- - Jonathan Mini (JM)
- - Watanabe ???
- - Gordon Tetlow (GT)
- - Gregory Schapiro (GS)
- - Sam Leffler (SL)
- - Bruce Mah
- George Neville-Neil (gnn)
- - Unknown (??)
On The Phone:
- - Alan Cox (AC)
- - Warner Losh (WL)
+ - Alan Cox (alc)
+ - Warner Losh (warner)
Via webcast:
-??
+Many people listened into the webcast and discussed the topics on
+ IRC.
The meeting followed a format where each section was led by an
individual and then a discussion ensued. Not all of the discussion
@@ -125,75 +129,75 @@ perforce and people have to patch it.
-RW : What about userland?
+rwatson : What about userland?
-JE : It can run different threads
+
julian : It can run different threads
in userland. The primitives are all there it just needs a bit more
help. I would like to put an idea out. Is it a good idea to be able
to have non-threaded programs linking with threaded libraries?
-RW : Putting async I/O into such a
+
rwatson : Putting async I/O into such a
thing would make sense.
-JE : The library would not care
+
julian : The library would not care
who was accessing it.
-RW : For instance libc could be
+
rwatson : For instance libc could be
threaded or not.
-JE : That would be interesting. I
+
julian : That would be interesting. I
don't know if the two interfaces are incompatible.
-JB : X does this.
+jhb : X does this.
-MD : It is very doable but you
+
dillon : It is very doable but you
have to make it non-preemptive. If you're switching non-preemptively
you can use library routines which are non threaded.
-JE : If I do what I'm thinking of
+
julian : If I do what I'm thinking of
doing then each lib will have its own KSE group.
-MD : stdio does not have to be
+
dillon : stdio does not have to be
thread aware if you don't schedule preemptively. It all matters where
it blocks.
-JE : Since you're a non-threaded
+
julian : Since you're a non-threaded
program you don't know that.
-RW : If you're going to support
+
rwatson : If you're going to support
that, libc has to support threads.
-RW : It sounds like some
+
rwatson : It sounds like some
complexity goes away. Can we use 1 libc with has threading?
-JE : Do we want to go down this
+
julian : Do we want to go down this
path?
-RW : Now or later?
+rwatson : Now or later?
-JE : What do I design now to do
+
julian : What do I design now to do
this?
-JB : For example libc_r does not
+
jhb : For example libc_r does not
work with rfork.
-JE : The answer is that yes we
+
julian : The answer is that yes we
should move forward. Tricky issues, signals...
-WL : Have people talked about
+
warner : Have people talked about
pthread programs and cancellation points?
-JE : The pthreads library does not
+
julian : The pthreads library does not
assume that you're only going to change threads at yield() points. We
are going to have cancellation points. There is an unimplemented call
which will be able to send a thread targeted signal even into the
kernel.
-JE : When a thread is scheduled
+
julian : When a thread is scheduled
onto a KSE there is a mailbox that the userland thread scheduler
updates.
-JE : Is there anyone else who has
+
julian : Is there anyone else who has
some time or test it? How many people should test this before I check
it in? There is a patch that's continuously updated on my web site to
be able to patch it to -CURRENT. There is a CVSUP target from cvsup
@@ -201,25 +205,25 @@ be able to patch it to -CURRENT. There
freefal there is a pointer there to a web page that explains how to
CVSUP from source.
-RW : What about SMP locking for
+
rwatson : What about SMP locking for
this?
-JE : Handled by the proc locking.
+
julian : Handled by the proc locking.
Has not been tried on SMP machines yet.
-DO : What about on Sparc?
+obrien : What about on Sparc?
-JE : You may need to stub things
+
julian : You may need to stub things
out.
-JB : Is the paper on the web site?
+jhb : Is the paper on the web site?
-JE : The updated copy has disappeared.
+julian : The updated copy has disappeared.
-?? : What's the different between
+
unknown : What's the different between
NetBSD and FreeBSD on this?
-JE : Logically not a tremendous
+
julian : Logically not a tremendous
difference but Net follows the paper closely and Free takes the idea
and makes it into a production system. There were some tough battles
on -arch about this. The tricky point is that the proc structure has
@@ -231,10 +235,10 @@ end we ended up breaking up the proc str
overwhelm the CPU when scheduling threads. This is the major
difference.
-JE : I greatly admire the NetBSD
+
julian : I greatly admire the NetBSD
way which is to take an idea and not dilute it.
-JE : Net is also putting a Solaris
+
julian : Net is also putting a Solaris
compatible threads package on top of their scheduler activations in
the Solaris ABI.
@@ -247,17 +251,17 @@ the Solaris ABI.
-
JB : Yesterday we talked about SMP
+
jhb : Yesterday we talked about SMP
related things so I'll give a summary and then give a list of things
for 5.0.
-
JB : The big thing for 5.0 is to
+
jhb : The big thing for 5.0 is to
get the network stack out from under Giant.
-
JB : Jefferey Xu and Jennifer Ying
+
jhb : Jefferey Xu and Jennifer Ying
were here to talk about this. They have the PCBs checked in now.
-
JY : Interface Queues and SynCache
+
jennifer : Interface Queues and SynCache
might be done.
@@ -275,95 +279,95 @@ might be done.
-
JB : Aside from network the newbus
+
jhb : Aside from network the newbus
locking needs to be done (Warner Losh) and also CAM stuff. No known
status on CAM. Perhaps CAM is not needed for 5.0
-
JB : Disk drive interrupts? Would
+
jhb : Disk drive interrupts? Would
help performance. Going to talk to Poul Henning-Kamp
-
JB : Alan Cox is working on the VM
+
jhb : Alan Cox is working on the VM
system. Working based on the old Mach stuff. Objective for 5.0 is to
get zero fill and execute on write to work without Giant. In future
he wants to look at locking down pmap() functions.
-
JB : Still some stability issues.
+
jhb : Still some stability issues.
UMA breaks some assumptions. For instance sockets assume that once
memory is a socket its a socket forever, this is no longer true.
-
JB : Talked to Mike Smith about
+
jhb : Talked to Mike Smith about
5.0 and have decided to stop adding features so that we can start
clean up 5.0 and make it a real release. This might require hacks.
-
RW : For example in the UMA case
+
rwatson : For example in the UMA case
there could be a flag to just say "don't reclaim this zone" -- this
would help with issues such as the socket code assuming memory is type
stable.
-
Over to AC on the VM system. Nothing to say.
+
Over to alc on the VM system. Nothing to say.
-
BM : As much as I might get hated
+
bmilekic : As much as I might get hated
for this. Will preemption stuff go in by 5.0?
-
JB :No, that's a 6.0 thing. There
+
jhb :No, that's a 6.0 thing. There
are things to do first.
-
??? Phone : Could this come in in
+
unknown : Could this come in in
the life time of 5.? 5.1?
-
RW : This is a release issue really.
+
rwatson : This is a release issue really.
-
JB : Yes, the kernel is pre-emptive.
+
jhb : Yes, the kernel is pre-emptive.
-
RW : Perhaps we should talk about
+
rwatson : Perhaps we should talk about
is performance goals? What are the comparisons to make? Perhaps head
of 4 with head of 5. We'll see a mix.
-
JB : I need to run benchmarks.
+
jhb : I need to run benchmarks.
-
RW : In terms of SMP features when
+
rwatson : In terms of SMP features when
will VM be ready to be measured? I can't put a date on it.
-
AC : I think I told John was in
+
alc : I think I told John was in
time for release. I'm already doing performance testing so we've
already started.
-
RW : We'll pick a date to start
+
rwatson : We'll pick a date to start
doing measurements. Perhaps 2 or 3 weeks from now.
-
AC : My guess is the the locking
+
alc : My guess is the the locking
pmap is going to take some time to shake out. On the other hand the
next major module we should be working on is machine dependent level.
Last we should try approaching the vmobject level. I'll start
worrying about performance in the near term.
-
RW : Will threading improve
+
rwatson : Will threading improve
latency or throughput for networking?
-
BM : I would like if we could
+
bmilekic : I would like if we could
actually start before.
-
RW : Do you have a timeline for
+
rwatson : Do you have a timeline for
the interrupt threading stuff?
-
BM : I finished some things last
+
bmilekic : I finished some things last
night but there are still issues. In a couple of weeks it should be
ready for first commit.
-
RW : Informally beginning to
+
rwatson : Informally beginning to
measure performance now. What are the right sets of tests? Need to
discuss on -arch.
-
AC : It would be nice to have that
+
alc : It would be nice to have that
committed to the tools directory.
-
JB : The statistics analysis
+
jhb : The statistics analysis
package are we using.
-
BM : I have some good success with
+
bmilekic : I have some good success with
netpipe for overall measurement.
-
RW : Need to be using consistent
+
rwatson : Need to be using consistent
compilers because of the compiler change. Also all our debugging
stuff will slow down the benchmarking.
@@ -401,11 +405,11 @@ stuff will slow down the benchmarking.
-
MD : Debug stuff on 5.0. I think
+
dillon : Debug stuff on 5.0. I think
it might be reasonable then to take the space hit and always have the
debugging in but turn it on and off with sysctl.
-
RW : We should commit an optimized
+
rwatson : We should commit an optimized
kernel configuration and benchmarking guidlines to the tree as
well.
@@ -414,85 +418,85 @@ well.
-
RW : I think we should continue
+
rwatson : I think we should continue
the performance discussion. We want to accomplish a couple of things.
One is stability measurement. What are the things we need to be
measuring? What is our definition of useful?
-
Jefferey : End to end measurement
+
hsu : End to end measurement
with gigabit cards. For latency test connections per second. Can use
ttcp or netbench in ports.
gnn : need to make sure we run
against all of 4.6
-
JE : Need to really have 3 tests.
+
julian : Need to really have 3 tests.
4.6 (forever) 4.x (following updates) and -CURRENT.
-
RW : There are other dimensions.
+
rwatson : There are other dimensions.
Degree of parallelism for instance. We might see degradation in uni
but get good stuff in multi case.
-
JE : Test for impact of KSE
+
julian : Test for impact of KSE
complications as well.
-
AP : I think as the results come
+
alfred : I think as the results come
through people should not be too worried about it. Perhaps we should
benchmark database type stuff as well. Need to do something
comprehensive.
-
DO : What does the test matrix
+
obrien : What does the test matrix
look like? Different architectures and different numbers of
processors.
-
RW : Can we make a multi-processor
+
rwatson : Can we make a multi-processor
run uni-procesor.
-
AP : Run queue and scheduler stuff?
+
alfred : Run queue and scheduler stuff?
-
JE : Will talk to Alfred.
+
julian : Will talk to Alfred.
-
RW : Is scalability testing important?
+
rwatson : Is scalability testing important?
-
DavidM : NFS testing.
+
obrienM : NFS testing.
-
RW : What about UI testing?
+
rwatson : What about UI testing?
-
JX : x11perf is the way to do that.
+
hsu : x11perf is the way to do that.
-
MD : Currently we have a directory
+
dillon : Currently we have a directory
for regression tests, should we do one for performance tests?
gnn : talk to sleepycat for DB
tests, see if they have some
-
AP : Really nice to tests DB
+
alfred : Really nice to tests DB
applications that are heavily thread dependent.
-
Jefferey :Apache 2 has threads.
+
hsu :Apache 2 has threads.
-
RW : What about commercial folks?
+
rwatson : What about commercial folks?
What do you do.
-
Paul Saab : Normally what we end
+
ps : Normally what we end
up doing is using the snapshot on some machines and see if the bugs
are out. There is no performance testing really.
-
RW : Again, what about performance?
+
rwatson : Again, what about performance?
-
Paul Saab : We've really never had
+
ps : We've really never had
one. It's more just bugs. We've just never found the performance to
be a problem.
-
RW : We need to create a forum for
+
rwatson : We need to create a forum for
talking about performance. We need reproducible test cases.
-
Paul Saab : There's also other
+
ps : There's also other
things. We've been doing lots of looking at this. FreeBSD gets
kicked down by attacks for instance. We have a lot of tools to get to
the project though.
-
RW : I will set up the mailing list.
+
rwatson : I will set up the mailing list.
@@ -505,15 +509,15 @@ the project though.
-
JB : Questions about alpha?
+
jhb : Questions about alpha?
-
RW : KSE on alpha?
+
rwatson : KSE on alpha?
-
JE : We have patches so it
+
julian : We have patches so it
compiles and runs non-KSE programs. You can have the patched version
of the alpha kernel up and running though.
-
RW : Is the task owned of making
+
rwatson : Is the task owned of making
this work on Alpha?
@@ -522,29 +526,29 @@ this work on Alpha?
-
DR : It works as far as I get to
+
dfr : It works as far as I get to
use it. It's not used in production right now.
-
PS : Intel shipped me a quad
+
ps : Intel shipped me a quad
processor IA64 board. (McKinley is the name of the board).
-
RW : What does it need for 5.0?
+
rwatson : What does it need for 5.0?
-
DR : It works, it works for SMP.
+
dfr : It works, it works for SMP.
Self hosts, build worlds. sysinstall compiles but needs more kicking
to work.
-
Paul Saab : Intel wants us to ship
+
ps : Intel wants us to ship
a CD.
-
DR : There is no thread support
+
dfr : There is no thread support
right now (threading library needs to move to get/setcontext rather
than longjmp).
-
DR : Need to move every driver to
+
dfr : Need to move every driver to
use BUS DMA for large memory machines to get bounce buffers.
-
JB : PHK is working on using a new
+
jhb : PHK is working on using a new
libwhisk so that sysinstall et al work on all systems.
@@ -553,99 +557,99 @@ libwhisk so that sysinstall et al work o
-
Jake B : Take control of KSE stuff
+
jake : Take control of KSE stuff
on Sparc 64.
-
RW : Do we have a Sparc 64 in the
+
rwatson : Do we have a Sparc 64 in the
cluster?
-
Jake B : It's not in the cluster
+
jake : It's not in the cluster
yet. It's a serial cluster issue.
-
RW : Package building on S64?
+
rwatson : Package building on S64?
-
Jake B : Perhaps a bunch of Ultra
+
jake : Perhaps a bunch of Ultra
60s for a package build.
-
David : 1500 build right now?
+
obrien : 1500 build right now?
-
Jake B : Yes, but a lot of the
+
jake : Yes, but a lot of the
same bug in packages are broken.
-
JB : Timeline for X?
+
jhb : Timeline for X?
-
Jake B : Not really.
+
jake : Not really.
-
RW : In terms of 5.0 how
+
rwatson : In terms of 5.0 how
comfortable are you?
-
Jake B : sysinstall is the only problem.
+
jake : sysinstall is the only problem.
PowerPC
-
Benno Rice : I got it up to
+
benno : I got it up to
execing a fake init in the simulator and printing "hello world".
Trying to work with real hardware. I now have some semblance of
busdma and am working on other stuff. GEM on iMac is in an embryonic
state. Should get to NFS mount in a few weeks.
-
RW : How do you feel about your
+
rwatson : How do you feel about your
timeline?
-
Benno : I'm not sure we'll have
+
benno : I'm not sure we'll have
something fully workable for 5.0.
-
RW : You're not at the point yet
+
rwatson : You're not at the point yet
on working on KSE are you?
-
Benno : No, need a useful system
+
benno : No, need a useful system
first.
-AMD64
+Adillon64
-MIPS
+MIps
-
??? :Juniper offered.
+
unknown :Juniper offered.
-
DO : But we have no hardware.
+
obrien : But we have no hardware.
-
??? :Juniper thinks it's OK but
+
unknown :Juniper thinks it's OK but
doesn't want to have it rot in the tree.
-
BD : I have a line on a company
+
brooks : I have a line on a company
that does compact PCI with R6Ks.
-
RW : We're waiting for someone to
+
rwatson : We're waiting for someone to
turn up.
@@ -660,43 +664,43 @@ LUNCH
Trusted BSD
-RW : MAC framework is what is of
+
rwatson : Malc framework is what is of
interest today.
See Slides from Robert
-
JE : Are the labels the same on
+
julian : Are the labels the same on
all structures?
-
RW : You can modify this but there
+
rwatson : You can modify this but there
are issues with memory: is the space needed for a label too large to
add to an mbuf header, for example? The label is small, but there
area lot of them?
-
BM : When you're freeing the mbuf
+
bmilekic : When you're freeing the mbuf
do you write the label data?
-
RW : We blank it when we free it.
+
rwatson : We blank it when we free it.
-
BM : I do not think the 36 bytes
+
bmilekic : I do not think the 36 bytes
in the mbuf header is a problem.
-
JE : I'm more interested in the
+
julian : I'm more interested in the
"why" than the how.
-
RW : A lot of people are
+
rwatson : A lot of people are
interested in this. Some of the things that do interest a lot of
people are things like doing on the fly security for a web server.
-
JE : Is there a black hatted TLA
+
julian : Is there a black hatted TLA
interested?
-
RW : Yes and several gov'ts. As
+
rwatson : Yes and several gov'ts. As
well as plenty of financial folks.
-
RW : There's a lot of userland
+
rwatson : There's a lot of userland
stuff that's not done yet.
@@ -706,171 +710,171 @@ stuff that's not done yet.
Release Engineering
-MS : Shows a slide of releases.
+
murray : Shows a slide of releases.
4.6 is ready to go but having issues with ISO images. DP1, a lot of
goals were met. 1000 packages were building on -CURRENT to get DP1
out. Polished 4.2. We need to start making decisions on 5.0.
November is still the date we're shooting for. We're going to do a
4.7 and a 4.8. DP3?
-***GET SLIDE FROM MURRAY***
+***GET samIDE FROM MURRAY***
-
MS : Release engineering area of
+
murray : Release engineering area of
the web site www.freebsd.org/releng. For DP2 question about p4 or
CVS? Will probably use p4 for DP2 as well. USB subsystem? Perl
removal? KSE?
-
JE : KSE should be able to run
+
julian : KSE should be able to run
simple tests.
-
DO : Is whatever you have
+
obrien : Is whatever you have
committed by DP2 be the same as the release.
-
JE : It will be a subset.
+
julian : It will be a subset.
-
MS : What will the status be of
+
murray : What will the status be of
KSE in userland for 5.0?
-
JE : Can't answer that right
+
julian : Can't answer that right
now. We're not removing the old libraries. The userland work will
happen between DP2 and release. The next step is MP as well as
UP.
-
DO : Are we heading for a release?
+
obrien : Are we heading for a release?
-
MS : yes.
+
murray : yes.
-
DO : Then we have to stop having
+
obrien : Then we have to stop having
major commits.
-
MS : Yes, the discussion today is
+
murray : Yes, the discussion today is
what are the major must have features.
-
RW : We need to decide if there
+
rwatson : We need to decide if there
are major upcoming problems and reduce risk on things like KSE.
-
JE : That's why I want to get MS 3
+
julian : That's why I want to get murray 3
in now.
-
RW : Do you think that KSE related
+
rwatson : Do you think that KSE related
changes from later milestones are going to be isolated to KSE or
pervasive?
-
JE : Hard to say. My guess is
-that MS 4 stuff should be less pervasive.
+
julian : Hard to say. My guess is
+that murray 4 stuff should be less pervasive.
-
RW : What happens if KSE just
+
rwatson : What happens if KSE just
doesn't work?
-
JE : Well it does work, the
+
julian : Well it does work, the
patches work, it's a question of risk. We need to check on new
things, like locking two threads in the same process.
-
MD : KSEs only become fragile when
+
dillon : KSEs only become fragile when
pthread uses them. That's the turning point.
-
DO : I'd like the rules for the
+
obrien : I'd like the rules for the
rest of the summer, I hope we'll talk about that.
-
MS : Earlier is better.
+
murray : Earlier is better.
-
JM : I think the cutoff point for
-KSE might be MS 3.
+
mini : I think the cutoff point for
+KSE might be murray 3.
-
RW : It's the kind of thing where
+
rwatson : It's the kind of thing where
if we need to back out we can.
-
JE : If you're not going to run
+
julian : If you're not going to run
KSEs then you're OK.
-
RW : I think it's low risk. Let's
+
rwatson : I think it's low risk. Let's
avoid the risk is the message.
-
JE : The next DP2 (where we'd like
-MS4).
+
julian : The next DP2 (where we'd like
+murray4).
-
AP : We really need KSE so all
+
alfred : We really need KSE so all
this concern about stuff that no one really uses is not a big deal.
People just need to play catch up. We have performance problems and
we need to solve those.
-
DO : We quickly need to figure out
+
obrien : We quickly need to figure out
our policy on multiple archs.
-
RW : I briefly want to respond to
+
rwatson : I briefly want to respond to
Alfred. We have asserted that KSE will be experimental. It will be
in and 5.0 will go out but there might be issues.
-
JB : Realistically for the network
+
jhb : Realistically for the network
stack is that IPv4 sockets will not be giant. But this is only in the
network stack world. Several people are working on it.
-
RW : The GEOM stuff will be
+
rwatson : The GEOM stuff will be
enabled by default in 5.0. Sparc depends on it. I do not know what
the impediments are to that though.
-
JE : The kernel stuff is there but
+
julian : The kernel stuff is there but
the user space is not. It can't become the default until everything
is there.
-
WL : What level of control are you
+
warner : What level of control are you
going to exercise over the tree in the coming months?
-
MS : You're going to see more
+
murray : You're going to see more
level of control but we expect the requests to be reasonable. It's a
very open process.
-
JB : How are we going to address the 5/6 split?
+
jhb : How are we going to address the 5/6 split?
-
MS : Carefully is all I can
+
murray : Carefully is all I can
say.
-
RW : For 5. 0 we need to have a
+
rwatson : For 5. 0 we need to have a
more informed decision. The release engineers will be trying to
reduce the number of large code changes more as time goes by. We
don't have to wait for 5.x to be perfectly stable before we branch.
-
MS : Let's move it to more general
+
murray : Let's move it to more general
discussion of DP2? Specific technologies.
-
BM : Is there a strategy to lock
+
bmilekic : Is there a strategy to lock
other protocols that are not locked down onw?
-
DO : How much more do we need to
+
obrien : How much more do we need to
do before 5.0?
-
JB : Bug fixing is what we're doing.
+
jhb : Bug fixing is what we're doing.
-
RW : The answer on the network
+
rwatson : The answer on the network
stack. We need to choose a strategy on how to handle the other
protocols.
-
DO : The crux is that socket
+
obrien : The crux is that socket
locking must be in 5.0.
-
RW : There are 2 or 3 problems.
+
rwatson : There are 2 or 3 problems.
Routing code is a problem. See earlier discussions.
-
Doug : RCng is essentially done.
+
dfr : RCng is essentially done.
What it needs is testers.
-
AP : What about libh (I think libh
+
alfred : What about libh (I think libh
is wrong but this is what I heard)?
-
JB : It's very far along but not a
+
jhb : It's very far along but not a
5.0 thing.
-
WL : Problems with interrupt
-routing in ACPCI?
+
warner : Problems with interrupt
+routing in alcPCI?
-
Watanabe : Cannot handle PCI PCI
+
takawata : Cannot handle PCI PCI
interrupt routing. Many 802.11x have this problem.
-
JE : Is it a problem from Intel?
+
julian : Is it a problem from Intel?
-
Watanabe : This is not an Intel
+
takawata : This is not an Intel
problem but a problem on our side. PCI PCI routing code should be
added. New code is necessary.
@@ -879,12 +883,12 @@ Whiteboard
UFS2 rcNG KSE M3 CAM SMPng
-GEOM TrustedBSD MAC BusDMA Newbus SMPng
+GEOM TrustedBSD Malc BusDMA Newbus SMPng
C++ Cardbus libwhisk/sysinstall KOBJ? (no!)
sparc64
-Perl Removal ACPI Alpha SMP Stability Pkgs for
+Perl Removal alcPI Alpha SMP Stability Pkgs for
sparc64, IA64
devd PCI intr route document hints release docs
@@ -892,26 +896,26 @@ devd PCI intr route document hints rel
platform
-
??? : Firewire?
+
unknown : Firewire?
-
RW : What hardware shipping on
+
rwatson : What hardware shipping on
IA64?
-
DR : Intel stuff
+
dfr : Intel stuff
-
RW : What about on Sparc64?
+
rwatson : What about on Sparc64?
-
DO : Very limited (hme...)
+
obrien : Very limited (hme...)
-
RW : KOBJ extensions discussed at
+
rwatson : KOBJ extensions discussed at
BSDCon?
-
WL : Not sure, probably not for
+
warner : Not sure, probably not for
5.0. Pervasive, so no.
-
RW : How broken is C++?
+
rwatson : How broken is C++?
-
DO : Only on sparc64. Don't
+
obrien : Only on sparc64. Don't
really know yet, but it's probably a library issue. The compiler is a
pre-release snapshot. The diffs are now getting large from May 5 to
now. We should attempt to be as far along this gcc branch as possible
@@ -929,60 +933,60 @@ come release.
-
GT : Talking about rc.d stuff.
+
gordon : Talking about rc.d stuff.
Import from NetBSD. Right now we have patches out there that are
translated from the current boot order. It's in perforce. After the
conference it will go into the mainline. Single toggle for
booting.
-
RW : How in sync are the bits in
+
rwatson : How in sync are the bits in
the new stuff with the old stuff.
-
GT : Last patch is from June 3rd,
+
gordon : Last patch is from June 3rd,
but it's tracking closely.
-
RW : What is the schedule for
+
rwatson : What is the schedule for
committing to the main tree.
-
GT : We have large patches so
+
gordon : We have large patches so
we're going to re-import from NetBSD.
-
RW : How about you have it done by
+
rwatson : How about you have it done by
July 1?
-
GT : We could probably do that.
+
gordon : We could probably do that.
Definitely want to be in DP2.
-
GS : How long will we keep the old
+
gshapiro : How long will we keep the old
stuff for?
-
GT : We'll keep them both in for a
+
gordon : We'll keep them both in for a
while. Not more than 1.5 months though.
-
JE : Have you had a look at all at
+
julian : Have you had a look at all at
the Mac OS/X startup code?
-
GT : No.
+
gordon : No.
-
JE : Do you deal with dependencies?
+
julian : Do you deal with dependencies?
-
GT : There is meta data in each
+
gordon : There is meta data in each
script that says what needs what. There is a program that orders
everything correctly.
-
??? : How does this effect the rc
+
unknown : How does this effect the rc
script for ports install?
-
GT : We could make this available
+
gordon : We could make this available
to ports but won't on the first version.
-
AP : Can I recommend that you
+
alfred : Can I recommend that you
recommend this to ports?
-
GT : Yes, the problem is that we
+
gordon : Yes, the problem is that we
have so many ports.
-
RW : The reason for this is for
+
rwatson : The reason for this is for
rebundlers of FreeBSD in their environments. We don't have to have it
for DP2 but it should be an ultimate goal. We might need to have a
policy statement on this. That at date X all ports must use the new
@@ -998,128 +1002,129 @@ system.
-
SL : I've been working on hardware
+
sam : I've been working on hardware
crypto. I'm looking for consensus on getting hardware crypto in the
kernel. This will not happen in 5.0.
Syscall vector change for 64bits
-
MD : Two ways to go. Need to
+
dillon : Two ways to go. Need to
create a new syscall vector. The other is to do a 1 off replacement.
Prefer the former.
-
RW : Perhaps we need to create a
+
rwatson : Perhaps we need to create a
FreeBSD 5 syscall vector. Could be a new ABI.
-
JE : Aren't there enough other numbers?
+
julian : Aren't there enough other numbers?
-
RW : That's one way to look at it
+
rwatson : That's one way to look at it
and other platforms have done that? Is that too heavy weight?
-
JE : It sounds that way to me.
+
julian : It sounds that way to me.
You end up having to replicate the old ones into the new one.
-
MD : The issue is about pollution.
+
dillon : The issue is about pollution.
-
DR : Seems like too much work for 5.x
+
dfr : Seems like too much work for 5.x
-
JE : It's more work. There are
+
julian : It's more work. There are
now two places. Why not talk to OpenBSD?
-
RW : Should there be a BSD API?
+
rwatson : Should there be a BSD alfredI?
Tough to do across projects.
-
DO : Who here is going to see that
+
obrien : Who here is going to see that
through? We have not talked to NetBSD about even SMP.
-
AP : Does changing the syscall
+
alfred : Does changing the syscall
table allow us to do clean up?
-
RW : We could do that without
+
rwatson : We could do that without
doing 64bit syscall table.
5.x ABI stability
-
RW : There are new functions in
+
rwatson : There are new functions in
5.x. At what point do we stop changing?
-
DR : When people start really using it.
+
dfr : When people start really using it.
-
RW : How do we tell? How did Solaris do it?
+
rwatson : How do we tell? How did Solaris do it?
-
Everyone : Know one knows.
+
Everyone : No one knows.
-
DR : It's too hard to add a
+
dfr : It's too hard to add a
syscall vector. Library issues are a problem.
-
DO : We can use ELF to handle that.
+
obrien : We can use ELF to handle that.
-
DR : Let's just add 20 new
+
dfr : Let's just add 20 new
syscalls instead of adding new work that we don't really really need.
-
RW : Punt on lack of time to do
+
rwatson : Punt on lack of time to do
this.
-
MD : I see DO's point with the
+
dillon : I see obrien's point with the
libraries but I have done this with time_t at 64 bits.
devd
-
RW : The devd stuff was to
+
rwatson : The devd stuff was to
integrate cardbus, newbus, etc.
-
JE : To monitor requests to mount
+
julian : To monitor requests to mount
or create new devices.
-
RW : Is this a 5.0 requirement?
+
rwatson : Is this a 5.0 requirement?
Is there anyone to do this?
-
GT (from IRC) : PHK has patches
+
+
gordon (from IRC) : PHK has patches
that make having devd unnecessary.
-
BD : Need something that does what
+
brooks : Need something that does what
pccardd did.
-
JE : Need to be able to do this
+
julian : Need to be able to do this
through a file.
-
WL : (from IRC): That's a 6.0
+
warner : (from IRC): That's a 6.0
feature.
-
JE : It would not be a large step
+
julian : It would not be a large step
to put something in the middle to handle this.
-
JE : Sometime in the 5 lifetime we
+
julian : Sometime in the 5 lifetime we
need this.
-
WL : There is no way to monitor
+
warner : There is no way to monitor
events in newbus but it would be easy to add.
-
JE : I'm not sure I understood you
+
julian : I'm not sure I understood you
correctly.
-
WL : What happens now in a PCI is
+
warner : What happens now in a PCI is
that it makes a call to pci_get_devid() and the driver would say "yes
I am " or "no I'm not" so you'd have to change each of the busses to
do this but that's not too tough because we have a small # of
busses.
-
JB : Mike Smith gave us an
+
jhb : Mike Smith gave us an
informal tour of OS/X. OS/X uses XML to do this. They have the DEVID
in XML.
-
BD : I looked at some PCI drivers
+
brooks : I looked at some PCI drivers
and some work that way but some don't.
-
JE : It seems to me we need to not
+
julian : It seems to me we need to not
have to modify every single driver. If you've got a device that's not
supported you ask all drivers. At the point when you run out you make
an outcall. The outcall returns does a substitution.
-
RW : Time up, time to wrap up.
+
rwatson : Time up, time to wrap up.
&footer;
Thanks,
--
Dominic Marks
Computer & Politics Geek
[work]::[npl.co.uk] << dominic.marks at npl.co.uk >>
[educ]::[umist.ac.uk] << notyet-known at umist.ac.uk >>
[home]::[btinternet] << dominic_marks at btinternet.com >>
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From owner-freebsd-www Thu Sep 12 14:54: 4 2002
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Rhodes
Message-Id: <200209122154.g8CLs3G2087349@freefall.freebsd.org>
To: chris@unixpages.org, trhodes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: www/42267: [PATCH] Some fixes for www/en/gallery/gallery.xml
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Synopsis: [PATCH] Some fixes for www/en/gallery/gallery.xml
State-Changed-From-To: open->closed
State-Changed-By: trhodes
State-Changed-When: Thu Sep 12 14:53:39 PDT 2002
State-Changed-Why:
Patch applied! Thanks for the submission!
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=42267
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From owner-freebsd-www Thu Sep 12 19:52:18 2002
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:53:14 -0500
To: www@FreeBSD.org
From: Jason Branscum
Subject: Not an add, but a removal on the Commercial Vendors page
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Specialix, Inc. makes a wide variety of multi-port async serial expansion
products. The ISA, EISA, and PCI SI/XIO host cards work under FreeBSD,
using the si driver
http://www.specialix.com/
This page opens up to a generic 'this domain for sale' page with 437298 popups.
Jason
Jason Branscum
The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax.
-- Albert Einstein
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From owner-freebsd-www Fri Sep 13 7:39:11 2002
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Subject: Submission for 'Commercial Vendors - Consulting' page
Organization: XCIV, London UK
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Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 15:39:07 +0100
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From: Paul Civati
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Would someone be able to action this, pretty please? :)
Thanks!
-Paul-
------- Forwarded Message
To: www@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Submission for Commercial Vendors - Consulting page
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:00:58 +0100
From: Paul Civati
Please could I have the following added to the list at:
http://www.freebsd.org/commercial/consulting.html
Xensia LLP provide UNIX systems/admin/
security/networking consultancy services within London UK. Specialising in
Open Source software on Solaris/*BSD systems. Over 7.5 years experience
with UNIX systems, administration, security/firewalls and networking.
Contact paul.civati(at)xensia.com for more details.
------- End of Forwarded Message
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From owner-freebsd-www Fri Sep 13 7:58:34 2002
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Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:46:27 +0200
From: Actcom Dial-Up user
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Hello there.
I'm regualar dial-up internet user. I use Actcom ISP - www.actcom.co.il
I browse the www.freebsd.org web (216.136.204.117) site very often.
Until today there was no problem to do it. Now I cannot browse it and
even ping it. In the same time people from other ISPs in Israel and
abroad have no troubles browsing your site.
After further testing I can say that you blocked part of Actcom's IPs in
your firewall probably. When my dial-up hostname/IP was
p11.ta6.actcom.co.il (216.136.204.117) you blocked me for even pinging
www.freebsd.org host. After I was reconnected and dynamically got new
hostname/IP p39.ta1.actcom.co.il (204.141.45.39) it is no problems now.
I can browse your site and ping it. But it is dynamically allocated IP,
so I could have the troubleds in some future.
Please, investigate this problem and unblock Actcom's dial-up
IPs/Networks if there are some of them. If you need more information
from my ISP, contact with them by email support@actcom.co.il
Thank you
P.S.
Because of spam prevalence I'll read your response(s) in
http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/freebsd-www.html
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From owner-freebsd-www Fri Sep 13 12: 3:42 2002
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From: "Eliot Miller"
Subject: Listing of our company profile
To: www@freebsd.org
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Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:04:21 -0700
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Webmaster,
We greatly appreciate your assistance listing our company in
your directory. The following is a description for our
company profile:
Web Site Title: Clockware
URL: http://www.clockware.com
Description:
Clockware provides 100% web based timesheet software and
online ASP service. Its enterprise software provides rules
based features for timetracking, project tracking, billing
and payroll.Clockware - Timesheet for the web.
For more information please visit the company’s web site at
www.clockware.com/timesheet_products/clockware_time.html
Thanking you,
Regards,
Eliot Miller
eliot.miller@clockware.com
866-EZ Clock or 408-749-7600, x 311
www.clockware.com
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From owner-freebsd-www Fri Sep 13 18:24:52 2002
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(envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:22:35 -0400
From: Tom Rhodes
To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: access problem
Message-Id: <20020913212235.616c4fb4.trhodes@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <3D820853.49FA84E6@actcom.co.il>
References: <3D820853.49FA84E6@actcom.co.il>
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Try disconnecting, rebooting your machine and then reconnecting. Be
sure you can connect to other hosts also. If you can visit other
web-hosts then try:
Please email admins@FreeBSD.org if you continue to experiance the
problem, and see if THEY did block you (highly doubtful though)
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:46:27 +0200
Actcom Dial-Up user wrote:
> Hello there.
>
> I'm regualar dial-up internet user. I use Actcom ISP -
> www.actcom.co.il
> I browse the www.freebsd.org web (216.136.204.117) site very often.
> Until today there was no problem to do it. Now I cannot browse it and
> even ping it. In the same time people from other ISPs in Israel and
> abroad have no troubles browsing your site.
>
> After further testing I can say that you blocked part of Actcom's IPs
> in your firewall probably. When my dial-up hostname/IP was
> p11.ta6.actcom.co.il (216.136.204.117) you blocked me for even pinging
> www.freebsd.org host. After I was reconnected and dynamically got new
> hostname/IP p39.ta1.actcom.co.il (204.141.45.39) it is no problems
> now. I can browse your site and ping it. But it is dynamically
> allocated IP, so I could have the troubleds in some future.
>
> Please, investigate this problem and unblock Actcom's dial-up
> IPs/Networks if there are some of them. If you need more information
> from my ISP, contact with them by email support@actcom.co.il
>
> Thank you
>
> P.S.
> Because of spam prevalence I'll read your response(s) in
> http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/freebsd-www.html
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-www" in the body of the message
>
--
Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes
www.FreeBSD.org -The Power To Serve
www.Pittgoth.com -Pittgoth Discussion Portal
trhodes@{Pittgoth.com, FreeBSD.org}
PGP key by www:
http://www.pittgoth.com/~darklogik/darklogik.key
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From owner-freebsd-www Fri Sep 13 20:25: 8 2002
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for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:23:20 -0400
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:23:20 -0400
From: postmaster@anastasiaweb.com
Reply-To: postmaster@anastasiaweb.com
Subject: MDaemon Warning - Virus Found
To: www@freebsd.org
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The following message had attachment(s) which contained viruses:
From : www@freebsd.org
To : webmaster@anastasiaweb.com
Subject : Health Condition
Date : Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:16:18 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <200209140316.g8E3GHA86892@logs-wo.proxy.aol.com>
Attachment Virus name Action taken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cf1201523001.att Exploit.IFrame.FileDownloadRemoved
target.bat I-Worm.Klez.h Removed
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From owner-freebsd-www Sat Sep 14 3:30:36 2002
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Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:30:30 +0100
From: Ceri Davies
To: Jason Branscum
Cc: www@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: Not an add, but a removal on the Commercial Vendors page
Message-ID: <20020914103030.GA2579@submonkey.net>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020912215209.00ae6768@gunslinger.terron.com>
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On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 09:53:14PM -0500, Jason Branscum wrote:
> Specialix, Inc. makes a wide variety of multi-port async serial expansion
> products. The ISA, EISA, and PCI SI/XIO host cards work under FreeBSD,
> using the si driver
>
> http://www.specialix.com/
They've moved to www.perle.com.
I've updated the description and link - thanks for pointing this out.
Ceri
--
you can't see when light's so strong
you can't see when light is gone
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From owner-freebsd-www Sat Sep 14 3:52:27 2002
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Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:52:24 +0100
From: Ceri Davies
To: John Winters
Cc: www@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: We sell the FreeBSD products - any chance of a listing
Message-ID: <20020914105224.GB2579@submonkey.net>
Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies ,
John Winters , www@FreeBSD.org
References: <3D7875A4.6070809@linuxemporium.co.uk>
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On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 10:30:12AM +0100, John Winters wrote:
> Hello there,
>
> We stock the official FreeBSD sets (FreeBSD jewel case, FreeBSD
> Handbook, Complete FreeBSD) which we source from Kudzu. Would there be
> any chance of a listing on your web site? The relevant page on our
> website is http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/bsd.html#FreeBSD As far as I
> can see, you don't list any vendors in the UK.
Done - should appear on the website within 12 hours or so.
Apologies for the delay, and thanks for your support.
Ceri
--
you can't see when light's so strong
you can't see when light is gone
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From owner-freebsd-www Sat Sep 14 4:57:14 2002
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Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 04:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jens Schweikhardt
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To: schweikh@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, www@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: misc/42558: http://www.freebsd.org/search produces incorrect results in stable mailing list
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Synopsis: http://www.freebsd.org/search produces incorrect results in stable mailing list
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Over to www.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=42558
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From owner-freebsd-www Sat Sep 14 5:32:19 2002
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Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:32:11 +0200
From: Actcom Dial-Up user
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To: Tom Rhodes , freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org,
admins@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: access problem
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When it was happened I had no problems with any other hosts. Only
www.freebsd.org was inaccessible. Moreover, from uptime.netcraft.net I
got to know that www.freebsd.org was registered to 216.136.204.21 IP in
a past. And there was no problem to browse FreeBSD site by going to
http://216.136.204.21/ Only http://www.freebsd.org/ and
http://216.136.204.117/ was inaccessible. That time I had dynamically
allocated (by my ISP)
p11.ta6.actcom.co.il (192.115.24.11) hostname/IP. So I can't get the
same IP again. But I didn't reboot my computer when reconnected (see my
first email below). I'm convinced that there was no problem in my side
(my computer).
I propose you contact with my ISP by email (support@actcom.co.il) and
ask them a list of IPs that they owns. Then just check if you had
blocked some of them and for what reason. Maybe some of IPs was
allocated to other owners in the past? Maybe you blocked some of them at
that time? Maybe now you have to unblock them now?
Thanks
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:22:35 -0400
Tom Rhodes wrote:
>
> Try disconnecting, rebooting your machine and then reconnecting. Be
> sure you can connect to other hosts also. If you can visit other
> web-hosts then try:
>
> Please email admins@FreeBSD.org if you continue to experiance the
> problem, and see if THEY did block you (highly doubtful though)
>
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:46:27 +0200
> Actcom Dial-Up user wrote:
>
> > Hello there.
> >
> > I'm regualar dial-up internet user. I use Actcom ISP -
> > www.actcom.co.il
> > I browse the www.freebsd.org web (216.136.204.117) site very often.
> > Until today there was no problem to do it. Now I cannot browse it and
> > even ping it. In the same time people from other ISPs in Israel and
> > abroad have no troubles browsing your site.
> >
> > After further testing I can say that you blocked part of Actcom's IPs
> > in your firewall probably. When my dial-up hostname/IP was
> > p11.ta6.actcom.co.il (192.115.24.11) you blocked me for even pinging
> > www.freebsd.org host. After I was reconnected and dynamically got new
> > hostname/IP p39.ta1.actcom.co.il (204.141.45.39) it is no problems
> > now. I can browse your site and ping it. But it is dynamically
> > allocated IP, so I could have the troubleds in some future.
> >
> > Please, investigate this problem and unblock Actcom's dial-up
> > IPs/Networks if there are some of them. If you need more information
> > from my ISP, contact with them by email support@actcom.co.il
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > P.S.
> > Because of spam prevalence I'll read your response(s) in
> > http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/freebsd-www.html
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-www" in the body of the message
> >
>
> --
> Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes
> www.FreeBSD.org -The Power To Serve
> www.Pittgoth.com -Pittgoth Discussion Portal
> trhodes@{Pittgoth.com, FreeBSD.org}
> PGP key by www:
> http://www.pittgoth.com/~darklogik/darklogik.key
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-www" in the body of the message
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