From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 06:52:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AF716A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate4.mot.com (motgate4.mot.com [144.189.100.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A41043F3F for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rafal.Jaworowski@motorola.com) Received: from il06exr01.mot.com (il06exr01.mot.com [129.188.137.131]) by motgate4.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate4) with ESMTP id h9DDqiHR028512 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from zpl02exm01.corp.mot.com (zpl02exm01.mpsc.mot.com [175.28.10.102])h9DDqfOX002759 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:52:42 -0500 Received: by zpl02exm01.mpsc.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) id ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:52:10 +0200 Message-ID: From: Jaworowski Rafal-ARJ004 To: "'freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org'" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:52:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) Content-Type: text/plain cc: Silverton Aron-C1710C Subject: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:52:48 -0000 In case anyone would be interested.. I have put together a rudimentary third-stage loader that is tied to PPCBug firmware. I took the existing FreeBSD/powerpc loader, divorced it from OF and bound to PPCBug. The low level pieces are based on NetBSD/mvmeppc port which also utilises PPCBug interface. The first piece of functionality I want to achieve is netbooting the kernel. At the moment the loader is able to mount nfs-exported directory, browse it and load elf files across the network. I didn't get to execute the actual powerpc kernel yet but that's the next step. I'm using a compactPCI MCP750 board if you're interested. I'll keep you posted about the progress. Rafal From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 07:09:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A96C16A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate6.mot.com (motgate6.mot.com [144.189.100.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA6E43F93 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:09:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Aron.J.Silverton@motorola.com) Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate6.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate6) with ESMTP id h9DE9rSk015108 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:09:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from il02exm10.corp.mot.com (il02exm10.corp.mot.com [10.0.111.21]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id h9DE9mBo004234 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:09:49 -0500 Received: by il02exm10 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) id ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:10:00 -0500 Message-ID: <6F8DFFA2C996D711945800065BFC9E4A013D68D9@il02exm11.corp.mot.com> From: Silverton Aron-C1710C To: "'freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org'" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:10:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:09:55 -0000 Jaworowski Rafal-ARJ004 wrote: > In case anyone would be interested.. > > I have put together a rudimentary third-stage loader that is tied > to PPCBug firmware. I took the existing FreeBSD/powerpc loader, > divorced it from OF and bound to PPCBug. The low level pieces are > based on NetBSD/mvmeppc port which also utilises PPCBug > interface. > > The first piece of functionality I want to achieve is netbooting > the kernel. At the moment the loader is able to mount > nfs-exported directory, browse it and load elf files across the > network. I didn't get to execute the actual powerpc kernel yet > but that's the next step. I'm using a compactPCI MCP750 board if > you're interested. > > I'll keep you posted about the progress. > > Rafal Congratulations Rafal! This is a great step to getting FreeBSD-PowerPC running on embedded boards. Once I get enough power in our facility to turn on our equipment, we'll want to give your code a try on our MCP805s. Regards, Aron From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 09:04:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD2D16A4BF for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from decstation.larkowski.net (d47-69-13-15.col.wideopenwest.com [69.47.15.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C568343FE3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@larkowski.net) Received: from localhost (peter@localhost)h9DG4Cv08787 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) From: peter@larkowski.net To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Hardware Donation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:04:16 -0000 I don't know if anyone is interested, but my parents just bought a new mac, and I snagged their old powermac 6500/225. It's in perfect working order except the crappy software modem is dead and a fan is starting to make some noise. It's got a cdrom, floppy, 225Mhz cpu, 64MB ram, 4GB ide drive (I think it's 4G anyway). I don't even know if there's any interest in making freebsd run on an older mac like that, but if anyone wants it and lives reasonably close to Ohio (or doesn't mind splitting some shipping or something), let me know. -p =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Peter Larkowski mailto: peter@larkowski.net From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 15:51:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37AF716A4D5 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D43944047 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:50:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABT70097 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:50:39 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8B2C43.4A3F8E1C@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:50:43 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: peter@larkowski.net References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware Donation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:51:44 -0000 Hi Peter > I don't know if anyone is interested, but my parents just bought a new > mac, and I snagged their old powermac 6500/225. Thanks for the offer, but FreeBSD/PPC is targeting NewWorld machines at the moment. It looks like it's possible to get NetBSD to run on this model if you want to try a *BSD. later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 17:27:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7FB16A4B3; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blarf.homeip.net (adsl-209-204-188-56.sonic.net [209.204.188.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7E743FBF; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listmail@blarf.homeip.net) Received: by blarf.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 7BFE424599; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:27:00 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda To: Peter Grehan , freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031014002700.GA5906@blarf.homeip.net> References: <3F8B2C43.4A3F8E1C@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F8B2C43.4A3F8E1C@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: zipzippy@sonic.net Subject: Re: Hardware Donation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:27:01 -0000 On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 08:50:43AM +1000, Peter Grehan wrote: > > I don't know if anyone is interested, but my parents just bought a new > > mac, and I snagged their old powermac 6500/225. > > Thanks for the offer, but FreeBSD/PPC is targeting NewWorld machines at > the moment. Well I'd love to see FreeBSD work on the old-world machines. I've got one more thing I've been meaning to try to get the FreeBSD loader working. If that doesn't work... perhaps it would be possible to get FreeBSD to lay the kernel out in a manner that the NetBSD loader would like. > It looks like it's possible to get NetBSD to run on this model if you > want to try a *BSD. Yeah, NetBSD runs on all PCI PowerMacs that don't have a PPC 601. - alex From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 04:17:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3792616A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039D143FAF for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:17:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABT88371 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:17:20 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8BDB48.126C9093@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:17:28 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jaworowski Rafal-ARJ004 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: "'freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:17:27 -0000 > In case anyone would be interested.. > > I have put together a rudimentary third-stage loader that is tied to PPCBug firmware. Great work Rafal ! > The first piece of functionality I want to achieve is netbooting the kernel. At the moment > the loader is able to mount nfs-exported directory, browse it and load elf files across the > network. I didn't get to execute the actual powerpc kernel yet but that's the next step. > I'm using a compactPCI MCP750 board if you're interested. I think you'll run into OpenFirmware dependencies very quickly in the kernel. However, it might not be that difficult to fix that, and it needs to be done at some point anyways. later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 04:19:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9303E16A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF2743FCB for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABT88399 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:19:25 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8BDBC6.6E0C0C29@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:19:34 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Zepeda References: <20031014002700.GA5906@blarf.homeip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware Donation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:19:30 -0000 > > Thanks for the offer, but FreeBSD/PPC is targeting NewWorld machines at > > the moment. > > Well I'd love to see FreeBSD work on the old-world machines. I've got one more > thing I've been meaning to try to get the FreeBSD loader working. If that doesn't > work... perhaps it would be possible to get FreeBSD to lay the kernel out in a > manner that the NetBSD loader would like. Sure, I'm not going to stop anyone that wants to put the effort into this. (And it does seem like a lot of effort :-) later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 06:04:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5EB16A4BF; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate7.mot.com (motgate7.mot.com [129.188.136.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A5643FB1; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:04:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rafal.Jaworowski@motorola.com) Received: from il06exr06.mot.com (il06exr06.mot.com [129.188.137.136]) by motgate7.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate7) with ESMTP id h9ED3eZn011610; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:03:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from zpl02exm01.corp.mot.com (zpl02exm01.mpsc.mot.com [175.28.10.102])h9ED3rCi008514; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:03:58 -0500 Received: by zpl02exm01.mpsc.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) id ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:03:21 +0200 Message-ID: From: Jaworowski Rafal-ARJ004 To: "'Peter Grehan'" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:03:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) Content-Type: text/plain cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:04:11 -0000 > >> The first piece of functionality I want to achieve is >netbooting the kernel. At the moment >> the loader is able to mount nfs-exported directory, browse >it and load elf files across the >> network. I didn't get to execute the actual powerpc kernel >yet but that's the next step. >> I'm using a compactPCI MCP750 board if you're interested. > > I think you'll run into OpenFirmware dependencies very >quickly in the kernel. However, >it might not be that difficult to fix that, and it needs to be >done at some point anyways. > Yes. I already know that locore.S and friends are very OF oriented. What I'm mostly concerned about is the pmap area but I need to see to it and better understand. What do you think is the right way of adding support in the kernel for another firmware but within the same architecture (powerpc in this case)? Should we just have a number of #ifdefs where appropriate, or maybe we should think about separating some bits and defining clean interfaces to common parts? Eventually I intend to let my work be merged with existing powerpc code in the tree and that's why I'd like to know what course to take. For now I'll just be using conditional compilation flags. Rafal From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 19:23:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B31C716A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED2C43F3F for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:23:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABT99870 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:23:28 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8CAFAE.6260CFCF@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:23:42 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jaworowski Rafal-ARJ004 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:23:38 -0000 Hi Rafal, > What do you think is the right way of adding support in the kernel for another firmware > but within the same architecture (powerpc in this case)? Should we just have a number of > #ifdefs where appropriate, or maybe we should think about separating some bits and defining > clean interfaces to common parts? Eventually I intend to let my work be merged with existing > powerpc code in the tree and that's why I'd like to know what course to take. For now I'll > just be using conditional compilation flags. Clean interfaces would be the best. The ultimate is a single kernel that could run on all combinations of processor and firmware, the true GENERIC, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Here's a quick summary of the OFW dependencies in powerpc/powerpc/* - locore.S - the entry point assumes the OFW calling convention clock.c - the time-of-day and CPU's timebase frequency are obtained from OFW machdep.c - the shutdown/halt routines call into OFW. nexus.c - heavily OFW dependent. Any other platform will require their own version of this. openpic.c - The OFW code could be split out of this to allow the OpenPIC code to be used on other platforms pmap.c - Not as bad as it looks. The setting up of the BAT array is specific to the h/w layout of Macs. OFW is used to determine the memory layout, and the PTE entries for OFW are not required on non-OFW systems. later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 21:47:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993AC16A4B3; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blarf.homeip.net (adsl-209-204-188-56.sonic.net [209.204.188.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817BC43FE3; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:47:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listmail@blarf.homeip.net) Received: by blarf.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 2001) id D56BE2464C; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:47:06 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda To: Peter Grehan , freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031015044706.GA787@blarf.homeip.net> References: <3F8CAFAE.6260CFCF@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F8CAFAE.6260CFCF@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: zipzippy@sonic.net Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:47:08 -0000 On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 12:23:42PM +1000, Peter Grehan wrote: > Clean interfaces would be the best. The ultimate is a single kernel that could > run on all combinations of processor and firmware, the true GENERIC, but I'm not > sure if that's possible. I think this is the wrong way to go. IMO, NetBSD has the right idea. Treat each PPC platform as a truely independent platform. They've got sys/arch/powerpc for the truly generic stuff. This allows them to support stuff like the BeBox, MacPPC, various IBM boxen, etc. This would be, IMO, similar to how FreeBSD handles the pc98 case... and the current powerpc stuff would be split up into MI (sys/powerpc) and MD (sys/powermac or sys/macppc maybe) portions. Darwin, and perhaps LinuxPPC, apparently handles the device enumeration and such without openfirware (actually BootX more or less renders any OF stubs unuseable). This is perhaps a nice goal, but IMO, it would be better to at least get everything working *with* OFW. This is of course easier with the new-world machines which have reasonable versions of OF. - alex From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 22:58:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476D016A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 700DF43F3F for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:58:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABU05404 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:58:14 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8CE205.5CB0B9E0@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:58:29 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Zepeda References: <3F8CAFAE.6260CFCF@freebsd.org> <20031015044706.GA787@blarf.homeip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 05:58:21 -0000 Hi Alex, > > Clean interfaces would be the best. The ultimate is a single kernel that could > > run on all combinations of processor and firmware, the true GENERIC, but I'm not > > sure if that's possible. > > I think this is the wrong way to go. IMO, NetBSD has the right idea. Treat each > PPC platform as a truely independent platform. They've got sys/arch/powerpc for > the truly generic stuff. Userspace is unnecessarily replicated for each of those platforms. There's a lot more differences between a lot of FreeBSD/alpha platforms than there is for the different NetBSD PPC platforms. Even properly supporting CPU differences between PPC models on the same h/w platform is perhaps more work than being able to support h/w differences in the same kernel. FreeBSD has a number of features to ease this, such as a common 3rd stage loader, devfs, etc. As I said, it may not be possible, but there's no point in writing it off from the start. > This allows them to support stuff like the BeBox, MacPPC, various IBM boxen, etc. > > This would be, IMO, similar to how FreeBSD handles the pc98 case... and the > current powerpc stuff would be split up into MI (sys/powerpc) and MD (sys/powermac > or sys/macppc maybe) portions. That's somewhat historical, and there's no need to go down that path unless necessary. > Darwin, and perhaps LinuxPPC, apparently handles the device enumeration and such > without openfirware (actually BootX more or less renders any OF stubs unuseable). > This is perhaps a nice goal, but IMO, it would be better to at least get > everything working *with* OFW. This is of course easier with the new-world > machines which have reasonable versions of OF. Darwin and LinuxPPC still use OpenFirmware - Linux pulls in a copy at boot-time before blowing it away so the info is still there. FWIW, I plan on getting things useable on NewWorld before I start out on my original goal of getting Free up and running on embedded PPC platforms. later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 06:55:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED95716A4B3; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate7.mot.com (motgate7.mot.com [129.188.136.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE21043F93; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rafal.Jaworowski@motorola.com) Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate7.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate7) with ESMTP id h9FDsaA0026959; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from zpl02exm01.corp.mot.com (zpl02exm01.mpsc.mot.com [175.28.10.102])h9FDsjfI021587; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:54:46 -0500 Received: by zpl02exm01.mpsc.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) id ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:54:15 +0200 Message-ID: From: Jaworowski Rafal-ARJ004 To: "'Alex Zepeda'" , Peter Grehan , freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:54:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:55:15 -0000 > >> Clean interfaces would be the best. The ultimate is a >single kernel that could >> run on all combinations of processor and firmware, the true >GENERIC, but I'm not >> sure if that's possible. > >I think this is the wrong way to go. IMO, NetBSD has the >right idea. Treat each >PPC platform as a truely independent platform. They've got >sys/arch/powerpc for >the truly generic stuff. > >This allows them to support stuff like the BeBox, MacPPC, >various IBM boxen, etc. > >This would be, IMO, similar to how FreeBSD handles the pc98 >case... and the >current powerpc stuff would be split up into MI (sys/powerpc) >and MD (sys/powermac >or sys/macppc maybe) portions. > I tend to agree that NetBSD's approach makes this separtion very clear and easy to manage (by the price of a bit of redundancy). How hard would it be to bring this into what we currently have in Free(besides the mentioned split in existing powerpc directory)? Rafal From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 08:12:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62DB016A4B3; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CAE43F3F; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:12:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9FFCtn6006216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id h9FFCoo34253; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:12:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16269.25586.238272.357023@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:12:50 -0400 (EDT) To: Peter Grehan In-Reply-To: <3F8CE205.5CB0B9E0@freebsd.org> References: <3F8CAFAE.6260CFCF@freebsd.org> <20031015044706.GA787@blarf.homeip.net> <3F8CE205.5CB0B9E0@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid cc: Alex Zepeda cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:12:57 -0000 Peter Grehan writes: > Userspace is unnecessarily replicated for each of those platforms. There's > a lot more differences between a lot of FreeBSD/alpha platforms than there is > for the different NetBSD PPC platforms. The differences in the alpha platforms are mainly variations on how the PCI bus is accessed and are more akin to the differences on the x86 between using ACPI and pcibios to access the pci bus. The low level code such as what NetBSD would put in machdep.c and locore.s is the same across all alphas. Drew From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 19:43:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1736A16A4B3 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E93C443FAF for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:43:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABU28264 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:43:39 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8E05EF.C9F9BCA5@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:43:59 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jaworowski Rafal-ARJ004 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: 'Alex Zepeda' cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:43:48 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:43:48 -0000 Hi Rafal > I tend to agree that NetBSD's approach makes this separtion very clear and easy to > manage (by the price of a bit of redundancy). How hard would it be to bring this > into what we currently have in Free(besides the mentioned split in existing powerpc > directory)? Not that easy, I don't think: it's more of a top-level directory (e.g. pc98) rather than a powerpc subdir. Which is another reason why I don't really want to go down the NetBSD path. later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 19:46:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A2616A4B3 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A23143FDD for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABU28332 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:46:13 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8E068D.4F82C163@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:46:37 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Gallatin References: <3F8CAFAE.6260CFCF@freebsd.org> <20031015044706.GA787@blarf.homeip.net> <16269.25586.238272.357023@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Alex Zepeda cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:46:25 -0000 > The differences in the alpha platforms are mainly variations on how > the PCI bus is accessed and are more akin to the differences on the > x86 between using ACPI and pcibios to access the pci bus. The low > level code such as what NetBSD would put in machdep.c and locore.s is > the same across all alphas. But there's still a startling array of different h/w and processor revs, which is why I think there is a reasonable chance of getting a GENERIC ppc kernel. FreeBSD's loader can help hide a lot of the differences that would normally be in locore/machdep. later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 20:50:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8DC716A4B3 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.47]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E456143F85 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:50:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from resistor@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin08-en2 [10.13.10.153]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.6/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h9G3oogs016591 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mac.com (unpc-784-21.pc.ts2athga.ath.ga.charter.com [66.190.87.69]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin08/MantshX 3.0) with ESMTP id h9G3onbn029332 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:50:48 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Owen Anderson To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F8E068D.4F82C163@freebsd.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: Long Term Ideas X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:50:52 -0000 Hey folks, I was just sitting here thinking, and had a few ideas that I thought were interesting. In particular, I was reading an article about how IRIX compatibility in NetBSD worked, and I was thinking that binary compatiblity in FreeBSD for AIX and/or Mac OS X would be interesting. Granted this would be a TON of work (and quite a ways down the road considering how close/near FreeBSD-PowerPC is to usable), but as a long term plan I think it would be a great idea. It would definitely put this port on the map, as even NetBSD does not have binary compatibility on the PowerPC platform. Now, here's a more extended list of things the I need to ponder: 1) Could Mac OS X's Mach-O loader be ported to FreeBSD? How do the APSL licensing terms work with stuff like that? 2) Is AIX built like, say, SVR4? I know that NetBSD has SVR4 and IRIX compatibility, and I was under the impression the FreeBSD has at least SVR4, but I've never actually checked that out. If so, then in theory supporting AIX shouldn't be terribly bad, more a matter of working with any variations it presents from the other Unices (Executable format?) 3) Since almost all of Mac OS X's underlying libraries are Open Source in one way or another, achieving wide support shouldn't be too bad. The only closed libraries I'm aware of are the UI ones, and unless someone wants to write a WINE-like runtime for it, I doubt we need to worry about that. Anyways, those are tonight's ramblings. Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot and it's impossible, or that I definitely need to go to sleep. But I am really looking forward to being able to run FreeBSD on my Mac one day! Owen Anderson From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 21:07:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDF916A4B3 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E6043FBD for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:07:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABU30340 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:07:09 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8E1985.3FF5EE5@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:07:33 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Owen Anderson References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Long Term Ideas X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 04:07:22 -0000 Hi Owen, > as even NetBSD does not have binary compatibility > on the PowerPC platform. There's been quite a bit of work on OSX Mach emulation, aka COMPAT_DARWIN, on NetBSD/PPC: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2003/01/09/manu_interview.html http://hcpnet.free.fr/applebsd.html > 1) Could Mac OS X's Mach-O loader be ported to FreeBSD? How do the > APSL licensing terms work with stuff like that? It'd be better to start with the NetBSD stuff to avoid APSL issues. > 2) Is AIX built like, say, SVR4? I know that NetBSD has SVR4 and IRIX > compatibility, and I was under the impression the FreeBSD has at least > SVR4, but I've never actually checked that out. If so, then in theory > supporting AIX shouldn't be terribly bad, more a matter of working with > any variations it presents from the other Unices (Executable format?) I'd say supporting AIX binaries would be a lot of work: it's quite a bit different from SVR4 in terms of the PPC ABI and also system calls. > 3) Since almost all of Mac OS X's underlying libraries are Open Source > in one way or another, achieving wide support shouldn't be too bad. > The only closed libraries I'm aware of are the UI ones, and unless > someone wants to write a WINE-like runtime for it, I doubt we need to > worry about that. I don't know that the command-line apps are that interesting: it's really stuff like the window server and iTunes that people would like to run :-) > But I am really looking forward to being able to run FreeBSD on my Mac > one day! OK, hopefully that won't be too far away. later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 16 06:04:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5A616A4B3; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E16143FBD; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:04:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GD4Mn6025858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id h9GD4H435723; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:04:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16270.38736.984138.190456@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:04:16 -0400 (EDT) To: Peter Grehan In-Reply-To: <3F8E068D.4F82C163@freebsd.org> References: <3F8CAFAE.6260CFCF@freebsd.org> <20031015044706.GA787@blarf.homeip.net> <3F8CE205.5CB0B9E0@freebsd.org> <16269.25586.238272.357023@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <3F8E068D.4F82C163@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid cc: Alex Zepeda cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:04:23 -0000 Peter Grehan writes: > > The differences in the alpha platforms are mainly variations on how > > the PCI bus is accessed and are more akin to the differences on the > > x86 between using ACPI and pcibios to access the pci bus. The low > > level code such as what NetBSD would put in machdep.c and locore.s is > > the same across all alphas. > > But there's still a startling array of different h/w and processor revs, This is hidden by the palcode, which is a sort of hardware abstraction layer. If you don't have any devices to talk to, all alphas look essentially identical to the OS. Its the device support (mainly the PCI bus(es)) where things get wonky. > which is why I think there is a reasonable chance of getting a GENERIC ppc That would be great. I'm not trying to discourage this, I'm just trying to correct what appear to be some misconceptions about the alpha port, or perhaps are my misconceptions about ppc hardware. Will one pmap module work for all ppc platforms? Does the TLB look the same everywhere? Drew From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 17 03:34:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C958216A4B3 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:34:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F8CB43F93 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (CPE-203-45-244-178.qld.bigpond.net.au [203.45.244.178]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.2.4-GA) with ESMTP id ABU59808 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:33:56 +1000 (EST) Sender: grehan@dommail.onthenet.com.au Message-ID: <3F8FC5B7.86989E0B@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:34:31 +1000 From: Peter Grehan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-12 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Gallatin References: <3F8CAFAE.6260CFCF@freebsd.org> <20031015044706.GA787@blarf.homeip.net> <3F8CE205.5CB0B9E0@freebsd.org> <16269.25586.238272.357023@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <16270.38736.984138.190456@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Alex Zepeda cc: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: rudimentary loader for ppcbug-based systems X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:34:07 -0000 > > which is why I think there is a reasonable chance of getting a GENERIC ppc > > That would be great. I'm not trying to discourage this, I'm just > trying to correct what appear to be some misconceptions about the > alpha port, or perhaps are my misconceptions about ppc hardware. > Will one pmap module work for all ppc platforms? Does the TLB look > the same everywhere? The same pmap will work for 603e, G2 (i.e. 824x), G3 and G4, but not for the MPC8xx or IBM 4xx processors. Also, some G3 and G4 models allow the hash table lookup to be disabled, and that might be worth investigating for performance reasons, and to have an implementation for the 8xx/4xx CPUs. So, it might be worth making this a run-time switch. There are TLB routines that are CPU independent, but any of the models that allow s/w TLB miss have CPU-specific instructions to allow TLB refill. The 8xx/4xx CPUs don't have BAT registers, the 603e and some G3/G4s have 4 BATs, while other G3/G4s have 8 BATs, and some G4s have an extended BAT that can map up to 4G. The current port is dependent on BATs to direct-map physical memory, so BAT emulation with locked TLBs may have to be done on the 8xx/4xx CPUs. I'd like to have a kernel that can take advantage of CPU-specific features at run-time, rather than having to conditionally-compile for each CPU model, or having a lowest-common denominator GENERIC. later, Peter.