From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 21 20:15:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D619916A4CE for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:15:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web41204.mail.yahoo.com (web41204.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A531A43D53 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:15:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from arne_woerner@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040921201507.77285.qmail@web41204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [83.129.231.80] by web41204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:15:07 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:15:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Arne "Wörner" To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: kern/71833: multiple process disc access / injustice X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:15:08 -0000 I would like to know, if somebody sees an easy way to propagate the process id to the (disc) device drivers (I do not see any such way in the moment) in order to create more justice in resource sharing. Or did already somebody do something like that? At least I found, that a single process (on 5.2-CURRENT-20040408) can be so rude that another process cannot even read 100Kbytes/sec (although usually I can read up to 20Mbytes/sec from my discs) [see change request kern/71833 (http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=kern/71833)]. -Wörner __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 15:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0721316A51F; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu (post5.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D040543D45; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from David.Bear@asu.edu) Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0I4J00C01YLX0W@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) <0I4J00B5UYLXVH@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from moroni.pp.asu.edu (moroni.pp.asu.edu [129.219.69.200]) (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id i8OFn771016067; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by moroni.pp.asu.edu (Postfix, from userid 500) id 92EB6EB2; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:48:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.72]) by moroni.pp.asu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1D72Xp06934 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:02:34 -0700 Received: from conversion.post1.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) id <0HA800601JKAGU@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) with ESMTP id <0HA8000LDJK9P2@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7205A55EC0; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:13 -0800 Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id BE69037B406; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 838232E8019; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:10 -0800 Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28DF37B401; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net(Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DB643F93; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:08 -0800 Received: from pool0060.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18jDNl-0000mV-00; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:06 -0800 From: Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG To: dwbear75@gmail.com Message-id: <3E4B429D.5DCFB0E9@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-to: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Old-To: Michael Sierchio X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4b33fe5c147bdbdc3dd65e01473813236350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Lines: 43 References: <3E4A5B77.5080103@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4A863E.2030801@potentialtech.com> <3E4A8EF5.1070308@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4A9712.8030609@potentialtech.com> <3E4AA331.5040701@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4AA734.5040102@potentialtech.com> <045401c2d2db$f9d45c30$0a0aa8c0@dweebsoft.com> <20030212225631.GA10375@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <005801c2d2eb$aa5fae60$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> <3E4ADDDE.5040208@pantherdragon.org> <3E4B138F.26E32E75@mindspring.com> <3E4B2433.70301@pantherdragon.org> <3E4B27E6.6010501@tenebras.com> cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Darren Pilgrim cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:00:45 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 -0000 Michael Sierchio wrote: > Darren Pilgrim wrote: > >> Soft updates are disable on / by default because of the chicken > >> and egg problem of runing tunefs on /. > > > > If that's the problem, then why doesn't sysinstall enable it by default > > when partitioning for a new install? > > You can certainly change the options in sysinstall to force Softupdates > on / > > In general, there's little to be gained from it -- on most systems, / is > essentially a read-only filesystem, with very little metadata changed except > for atime. > > BTW, IIRC you can certainly 'tunefs -n enable /' while in single-user mode. If it's mounted read-only, which requires no other mounts, then you can do it. I believe the reason it's not "on" in sysinstall is that sysinstall tries to mount things async on the initial install, so that doing things like unpacking ports doesn't take forever. If it fails, you can just restart, and having to do that a couple of times is still faster than waiting for ordered metadata. The technical reason that it doesn't do it is that the mount update is not logically an "unmount without destroying vnodes(inodes) in core, with a remount with the new options". The main reason for that is that the dependencies go all the way to the buffer cache, and the backing vnode (e.g. the "raw" device) that's mounted does not necessarily get its buffers flushed. Basically, you'd have to put a little more work into the "mount update" code. This was discussed a long time ago on -arch, when soft updates first came into FreeBSD, and then again every 18 months or so, ever after. See Kirk's postings on the subject, if you don't want to take mine for it. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 15:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA65116A50E; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu (post5.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B0543D45; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from David.Bear@asu.edu) Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0I4J00C01YLX0Z@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) <0I4J00B60YLXVH@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from moroni.pp.asu.edu (moroni.pp.asu.edu [129.219.69.200]) (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id i8OFn771016061; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by moroni.pp.asu.edu (Postfix, from userid 500) id 62BB1E3C; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:48:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.72]) by moroni.pp.asu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1CNpEp05975 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:51:14 -0700 Received: from conversion.post1.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) id <0HA700H01ZLEC7@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:51:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) with ESMTP id <0HA7009G2ZLEXB@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:51:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 137A955F28; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:51:04 -0800 Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id DD9E337B406; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 93E932E8006; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:51:01 -0800 Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B5B37B401; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from spork.pantherdragon.org(Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F33B43FBD; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:50:59 -0800 (PST envelope-from dmp@pantherdragon.org) Received: from sparx.techno.pagansspork.pantherdragon.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC321005F; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:50:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pantherdragon.org (speck.techno.pagans [172.21.42.2]) by sparx.techno.pagans (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2586AB6A; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:50:53 -0800 (PST) From: Darren Pilgrim In-reply-to: <005801c2d2eb$aa5fae60$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG To: dwbear75@gmail.com Message-id: <3E4ADDDE.5040208@pantherdragon.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-to: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Old-To: Matthew Emmerton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030210 Lines: 27 References: <3E4A5B77.5080103@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4A863E.2030801@potentialtech.com> <3E4A8EF5.1070308@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4A9712.8030609@potentialtech.com> <3E4AA331.5040701@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4AA734.5040102@potentialtech.com> <045401c2d2db$f9d45c30$0a0aa8c0@dweebsoft.com> <20030212225631.GA10375@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <005801c2d2eb$aa5fae60$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Daxbert cc: Bill Moran cc: Heinrich Rebehn cc: David Schultz cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:50:54 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 -0000 Matthew Emmerton wrote: >>Thus spake Daxbert : >> >>>The inspiration for this email was from a thread in >>>-questions: "Re: fsck takes very long after crash/reset" >>> >>>Is anybody currently working on or does there exist >>>a JFS for FreeBSD? > > > Various people (including myself and Hiten Pandya) have done work to port > the GPL'd JFS implementation, but there's one ugly problem -- the GPL. > > We can make JFS into a kernel module (avoiding the static-link policy of the > GPL), but then it can only (legally) be used on non-root filesystems, as the > code to read the root filesystem must be statically linked into the kernel. > This in itself makes JFS support somewhat pointless. Not really. A properly laid-out filesystem hierarchy will result in no writes to / (except for installworld/kernel). That removes the problem that journalling addresses, and is probably why softupdates is disabled by default for /. For large, active filesystems, journalling would be a big improvement when you had to run a foreground fsck. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 15:53:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDB916A542; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu (post5.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF73E43D46; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from David.Bear@asu.edu) Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0I4J00C01YLX11@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) <0I4J00BE7YLXN5@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from moroni.pp.asu.edu (moroni.pp.asu.edu [129.219.69.200]) (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id i8OFn771016064; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by moroni.pp.asu.edu (Postfix, from userid 500) id 74FA2FCF; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:48:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.72]) by moroni.pp.asu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1D56up06685 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:06:56 -0700 Received: from conversion.post1.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) id <0HA800501E7K1N@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) with ESMTP id <0HA800424E7JT7@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A8E655441; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:06:50 -0800 Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id 1BCEA37B405; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:06:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F3A932E8019; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:06:48 -0800 Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E4CC37B401 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.tenebras.com (laptop.tenebras.com [66.92.188.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4087243F93 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:06:47 -0800 (PST envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: (qmail 61998 invoked from network); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:06:46 +0000 Received: from sapphire.tenebras.com (HELO tenebras.com) (192.168.188.241) by 0 with SMTP; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:06:46 +0000 From: Michael Sierchio In-reply-to: <3E4B2433.70301@pantherdragon.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG To: dwbear75@gmail.com Message-id: <3E4B27E6.6010501@tenebras.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-to: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Old-To: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 Lines: 21 References: <3E4A5B77.5080103@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4A863E.2030801@potentialtech.com> <3E4A8EF5.1070308@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4A9712.8030609@potentialtech.com> <3E4AA331.5040701@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4AA734.5040102@potentialtech.com> <045401c2d2db$f9d45c30$0a0aa8c0@dweebsoft.com> <20030212225631.GA10375@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <005801c2d2eb$aa5fae60$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> <3E4ADDDE.5040208@pantherdragon.org> <3E4B138F.26E32E75@mindspring.com> <3E4B2433.70301@pantherdragon.org> cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:25 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:06:46 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:25 -0000 Darren Pilgrim wrote: >> Soft updates are disable on / by default because of the chicken >> and egg problem of runing tunefs on /. > > > If that's the problem, then why doesn't sysinstall enable it by default > when partitioning for a new install? You can certainly change the options in sysinstall to force Softupdates on / In general, there's little to be gained from it -- on most systems, / is essentially a read-only filesystem, with very little metadata changed except for atime. BTW, IIRC you can certainly 'tunefs -n enable /' while in single-user mode. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 15:53:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B400516A530; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu (post5.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3681843D1F; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from David.Bear@asu.edu) Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0I4J00C01YLY17@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0I4J00C01YLY16@asu.edu> (original mail from iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) <0I4J00B65YLXVH@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from moroni.pp.asu.edu (moroni.pp.asu.edu [129.219.69.200]) (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id i8OFn771016070; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by moroni.pp.asu.edu (Postfix, from userid 500) id 9F9D1F59; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:48:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.72]) by moroni.pp.asu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1D7jAp07034 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:45:10 -0700 Received: from conversion.post1.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) id <0HA800M01LJARP@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:45:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) with ESMTP id <0HA800JQELJAF0@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:45:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7E855F56; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:45:05 -0800 Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id 7554937B406; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 55D6D2E8023; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:59 -0800 Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B1337B401; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com(Postfix) with ESMTP id 6863843F93; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:56 -0800 Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1D7inDm012131; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:49 -0800 Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id h1D7in8v012130; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:49 -0800 From: David Schultz In-reply-to: <3E4B467B.4DCF6D5@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG To: dwbear75@gmail.com Message-id: <20030213074449.GA12084@HAL9000.homeunix.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-to: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Old-To: Terry Lambert Lines: 38 References: <3E4AA331.5040701@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4AA734.5040102@potentialtech.com> <045401c2d2db$f9d45c30$0a0aa8c0@dweebsoft.com> <20030212225631.GA10375@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <005801c2d2eb$aa5fae60$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> <3E4B138F.26E32E75@mindspring.com> <20030212210721.A9481@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> <3E4B467B.4DCF6D5@mindspring.com> cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Daxbert cc: Bill Moran cc: Heinrich Rebehn cc: Darren Pilgrim cc: Matthew Emmerton cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:26 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:49 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:26 -0000 Thus spake Terry Lambert : > David Schultz wrote: > > > There's no chicken and egg problem when you're booting off install > > > media or for that matter from single user mode. The problem was that > > > softupdates means you don't get space back from deleted files immediatly > > > so previously / tended to fillup during installworld or installkernel. > > > I know some fixes have been implemented in that area, but I'm not sure > > > if then mean you can always write to the space occupied by unlinked > > > files or just that you have a better chance. > > > > The problem is effectively fixed in 5.0. Basically, when no space > > can be found, the syncer is accelerated to try to speed up frees. > > Technically it's possible to run into a livelock, where you keep > > freeing space and it keeps getting snatched up before you can grab > > it, so you wait forever. So IIRC, there is a point where it just > > gives up on finding the space. However, that won't happen with an > > install, so the free space problem isn't a reason not to use > > softupdates on the root FS. I think the default hasn't been > > changed just because nobody has bothered. > > The easy way to fix this is to insert a new dependency for the > completion of the allocation. Basically, this would put in a > stall barrier that would cause the outstanding I/O to drain before > the new I/O was attempted. All other operations behind the one > that caused the stall would b held off, which would avoid the > starvation deadlock you describe. Most likely, all this would > require some minor code to maintain a running tally of virtual vs. > real free block count. It really isn't a big deal. You're saying you can fix the problem where allocations can sometimes fail on a busy 99% full filesystem, but on such a filesystem, you're just as likely to hit it when it's 100% full. Kirk's solution is simple and has the advantage of not requiring additional dependency tracking for the common case. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 15:53:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3D416A507; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu (post5.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02D1843D4C; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from David.Bear@asu.edu) Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0I4J00C01YM026@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0I4J00C01YM024@asu.edu> (original mail from iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) <0I4J00B67YM0QQ@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from moroni.pp.asu.edu (moroni.pp.asu.edu [129.219.69.200]) (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id i8OFnA71016149; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by moroni.pp.asu.edu (Postfix, from userid 500) id EC8E7F5D; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:48:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.72]) by moroni.pp.asu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1E025p10720 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:02:05 -0700 Received: from conversion.post1.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) id <0HA900M01URHHS@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:02:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) with ESMTP id <0HA900IGRURHMK@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:02:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA2E563B7; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:01:56 -0800 Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id 7C4BB37B406; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CD012E800A; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:01:53 -0800 Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4EB37B401; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net(Postfix) with ESMTP id D005A43F85; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:01:50 -0800 Received: from pool0247.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18jTIU-0004yH-00; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:01:43 -0800 From: Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG To: dwbear75@gmail.com Message-id: <3E4C3195.FAB92EEA@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-to: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Old-To: David Schultz X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4e6e963775cab5cb297c3d1cb5f9747c3a7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Lines: 39 References: <005801c2d2eb$aa5fae60$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> <3E4ADDDE.5040208@pantherdragon.org> <3E4B138F.26E32E75@mindspring.com> <20030212210721.A9481@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> <20030213051952.GA11572@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <3E4B467B.4DCF6D5@mindspring.com> <20030213074449.GA12084@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <3E4BA1D2.E259308@mindspring.com> <20030213191356.GA14560@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <3E4BFE74.2000103@pantherdragon.org> <20030213211123.GA15047@HAL9000.homeunix.com> cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Daxbert cc: Bill Moran cc: Heinrich Rebehn cc: Darren Pilgrim cc: Matthew Emmerton cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:29 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:00:21 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:29 -0000 David Schultz wrote: > > I think softupdates is still (viewed as) riskier than synchronous > > writes, at least for large numbers of writes (like installworld) to a NB: An initial system install is done with async mounts. You can't use async mounts if you use soft updates, because the dependencies for already outstanding pending writes won't be there after a "mount -u". Same is true of sync mounts, but install doesn't use that, or try to use "mount -u". > I've heard that argument, and while I think it has *some* validity > in general, I don't buy it for installworld/installkernel in > particular. Softupdates guarantees metadata consistency (modulo > hardware issues that have been discussed on this list before), but > it can reorder writes and delay the amount of time it takes your > data to hit the disk. For an installworld, this means that the > window during which you have a partially installed world is > slightly larger, but installworld takes a while, so the window is > already pretty darn big. The whole rationale for doing > installworld/installkernel in a particular sequence is that with > any luck, you can boot to single-user mode after something goes > wrong and finish the job (or revert to the old kernel.) Heh. This is the "Lightning is less likely to hit me if I play golf very fast, even though I'm doing it in a thunderstorm" argument. It's based on a false understanding of statistics, and it's the same argument Linux FS people used to use, back before they had an FS that ordered metadata writes, to justify not ordering metadata writes (e.g. "use async, the failure window is smaller"). And we all know that's really bogus. 8-) 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 21:42:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA9016A4CE; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:42:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from esafe.connectalk.com (esafe.connectalk.com [204.19.165.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A95E43D1F; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:42:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from awebster@connectalk.com) Received: from mtlex01.connectalk.com ([IP=10.125.204.14]) by eSafe SMTP Relay 1095882830; Fri Sep 24 17:57:49 2004 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:42:53 -0400 Message-ID: <9D61D69E3C1F7F459C5513AD830EE219047E7B@mtlex01.connectalk.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Help/problems with fsck_ffs Thread-Index: AcSif3KKTpHlluoPSHC+/57vDRHQHA== From: "Webster, Andrew" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Help/problems with fsck_ffs X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:42:56 -0000 FreeBSD: 5.2.1-RELEASE, and 5.2.1-p10 =20 Synopsis I have 2 identical systems with very large 1.3TB disk array (OS sees it as a single drive /dev/da1) On one system fsck /dev/da1s1d works fine, on the other fsck /dev/da1s1d fails with BAD SUPER BLOCK error. =20 Description On the problem system, fsck returns: # fsck_ffs /dev/da1s1d ** /dev/da1s1d BAD SUPER BLOCK: VALUES IN SUPER BLOCK DISAGREE WITH THOSE IN FIRST ALTERNATE =20 LOOK FOR ALTERNATE SUPERBLOCKS? [yn] y =20 64 is not a file system superblock 917118848 is not a file system superblock 1834237632 is not a file system superblock SEARCH FOR ALTERNATE SUPER-BLOCK FAILED. YOU MUST USE THE -b OPTION TO FSCK TO SPECIFY THE LOCATION OF AN ALTERNATE SUPER-BLOCK TO SUPPLY NEEDED INFORMATION; SEE fsck(8). =20 However when running fsck_ffs -b 192 (192 because newfs listed it as a backup superblock location) /dev/da1s1d on the problem system, it works fine.=20 # fsck_ffs -b 192 /dev/da1s1d Alternate super block location: 192 ** /dev/da1s1d ** Last Mounted on=20 ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups 298602 files, 10861179 used, 309521859 free (763 frags, 38690137 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) =20 UPDATE STANDARD SUPERBLOCK? [yn] y =20 =20 ***** FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED *****=20 =20 Trying fsck_ffs /dev/da1s1d again after responding to UPDATE STANDARD SUPERBLOCK still returns BAD SUPER BLOCK error message, so the update isn't happening, or it is writing to THE WRONG PART OF THE DISK! =20 I recompiled fsck_ffs with debugging and spent a while looking at it, and have a few observations. =20 Setup.c 346: super *=3D dev_bsize; Interestingly this doesn't work as expected when debugging. Super went from 128 to 128 as I stepped through this code (dev_bsize was 512). I don't know if it is a problem with GDB or with GCC, but when I removed the -O option in the compile, it worked, and super went from 128 to 65536, but didn't fix the superblock problem. =20 Second observation: Setup.c 356 getblk(&asblk, cgsblock(&sblock, sblock.fs_ncg - 1), sblock.fs_sbsize); This looks like to goes to get the _LAST_ superblock on the drive and then compares it to the first. If they don't match: error. The problem is that there is no way to _correct_ a particular superblock, as the UPDATE STANDARD SUPERBLOCK only fixes the first one if there is a problem with it. The only way to workaround the problem is to backup the data, newfs and restore, but 1.3TB is somewhat large... =20 The question: How to you repair the damaged superblock when it isn't the first one? =20 -- Andrew=20 =20 *************************************************************************= ************************* The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager= or the=20 sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make cop= ies. ** eSafe scanned this email for viruses, vandals and malicious content. *= * *************************************************************************= *************************