From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 02:39:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40B2F16A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 02:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58A7E43D3F for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i569clca036470 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:38:47 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id i569clP9036469 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:38:47 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from yar) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:38:47 +0400 From: Yar Tikhiy To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040606093847.GA33286@comp.chem.msu.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Subject: A subtle libstand bug? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 09:39:06 -0000 Hi there, I'm sorry to report the problem I observed in so little detail, but OTOH I feel I must notify the community about it. I'm afraid there's too little detail for a PR. Yesterday I did binary upgrade of my home system, from 4.9-R to 4.10-R. Then I merged my old /etc into the new one. Of course, I just did "mv /etc.old/fstab /etc". After that, the kernel started to ask for the root device. Having played with loader(8) in the past, I concluded that something was wrong with my /etc/fstab, because I knew loader(8) would consult it for the root device name to pass to the kernel. I added some debugging printfs to getrootmount(), in sys/boot/common/boot.c, and saw that /etc/fstab was opened OK, but nothing could be read from it as though it was empty. At the same time, fsck reported no errors in the file system. And then I did a mistake: I issued, "cp /etc/fstab /etc/fstab2 && mv /etc/fstab2 /etc/fstab". The problem vanished, and I could reproduce it no more. >From this experience I suppose that there is a subtle bug in libstand that must be related to reading FFS directories or inodes. A libstand wizard might have insight into it. -- Yar From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 13:55:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC9316A4CE; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.transip.nl (relay.transip.nl [80.69.66.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F97D43D1F; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ali@transip.nl) Received: from redguy (peris.demon.nl [212.238.139.202]) by relay.transip.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id B476634A496; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 22:55:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00da01c44b3f$74d3d8c0$0400a8c0@redguy> From: "Ali Niknam" To: "Robert Watson" References: Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 22:55:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 05:25:01 -0700 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.2.1: Mutex/Spinlock starvation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 20:55:54 -0000 Hi Robert, As promised my findings regarding the changes; just came home after a night of trying and praying :) > Actually, by default, most mutexes in the system are sleep mutexes, so > they sleep on contention rather than spinning. In some cases, this > actually hurts more than spinning, because if the mutex is released > quickly by the holder, then you pay the context switches which cost > more than spinning for the short period of time. > > You might want to try adding "options ADAPTIVE_MUTEXES" to your kernel > configuration, which will cause mutexes to spin briefly on SMP systems > before sleeping, and has been observed to improve performance quite a > bit. > I tried this; this helps performance a lot, here are the findings: - under all conditions turning on HTT helps a *lot* (which is logical i think) - under non killing load (killing load = load where server would have crashed without this option) it performs much much better - under killing load it performs a lot better, up until a certain level: - a new killing level: from this point onward basically the same thing happens as before.. What i'm guessing is that probably this new killing level occurs when load is so high that the spins 'adapt' into blocks. From your description above I understand that there's a certain timeout when 'spinning' mutexes turn into 'blocking'/'sleeping' mutexes. Is there a way to set this timeout ? I would very much like to try out what would happen if one would set this timeout to a quite high value. Appart from this i also tried options ZERO_COPY_SOCKET, but that didnt seem to help much, if at all. Furthermore I tried out SCHED_ULE which was dramatic! I'm not sure if i'm the only one, but the performance was really terrible. i switched it off again as soon as i could. Also what I was wondering: do processes that go into sleep-mutex mode go into the same waiting queue as normal processes, or do they go into a special queue? Could this problem basically boil down to a scheduler being to slow (or the context switching) for these amounts of processes waiting/blocking ? If so could it be an idea to put blocking processes into a special queue in which the scheduler adepts simple scheduling algorithm (such as first come first serve, or random, or whatever) to dramatically reduce rescheduling time ? Best Regards, Ali Niknam From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 5 14:04:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE74916A4CE for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web80103.mail.yahoo.com (web80103.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.76]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A4EF043D39 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:04:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from evans.alan@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20040605210415.18079.qmail@web80103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.124.150.210] by web80103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 14:04:15 PDT Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:04:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Evans To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 05:25:01 -0700 Subject: machine is unusable with panic: vrele: negative ref cnt X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:04:19 -0000 On boot I see the following on an IBM T30 laptop: Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad0s1a WARNING: / was not properly dismounted ad0: FAILURE - READ_MUL status=59 error=40 LBA=376639 ad0: FAILURE - READ_MUL status=59 error=40 LBA=376639 ad0: FAILURE - READ_MUL status=59 error=40 LBA=376639 ad0: FAILURE - READ_MUL status=59 error=40 LBA=376639 ad0: FAILURE - READ_MUL status=59 error=40 LBA=376639 ad0: FAILURE - READ_MUL status=59 error=40 LBA=376639 ad0: FAILURE - READ_MUL status=59 error=40 LBA=376639 panic: vrele: negative ref cnt syncing disks, buffers remaining... 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 \giving up on 9 buffers. And the same occurs on every reboot and the machine isn't usable anymore. I'd like to salvage the data that's in the hard disk. Any ideas on how ro recover data from the hard disk? The disk is only 4 months old. Thanks, Alan Evans From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 05:47:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F30316A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 05:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.173]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053F143D2D for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 05:47:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: from [212.227.126.208] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BWx3r-0007mp-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:47:39 +0200 Received: from [80.132.228.215] (helo=Gatekeeper.FreeBSD.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BWx3r-0000xL-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:47:39 +0200 Received: from StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org (StefanEsser [192.168.0.10]) by Gatekeeper.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B955F23; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:47:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: by StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org (Postfix, from userid 200) id 21CBD2306; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:47:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:47:34 +0200 From: Stefan =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=DFer?= To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040606124734.GA2687@StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org> Mail-Followup-To: Stefan =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=DFer?= , hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:fa3fae9b6ca38d745862a668565919f6 Subject: Semantics of "seteuid(uid)" vs. "setreuid(-1,uid)" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 12:47:44 -0000 Any reason, that there is a difference in semantics between: seteuid(id) vs. setreuid(-1, id) ??? The tests performed on the arguments are different (assuming a fixed arg of -1 for ruid) in that seteuid does not support the case of (euid == cr_uid): seteuid(euid): euid != oldcred->cr_ruid && euid != oldcred->cr_svuid setreuid(-1, euid): euid != oldcred->cr_uid && euid != oldcred->cr_ruid && euid != oldcred->cr_svuid So seteuid() may fail in cases where setreuid() with a first argument of -1 succeeds. The test obviously corresponds to POSIX appendix B.4.2.2 as mentioned in the comment in setuid(). Is the difference between seteuid() and setreuid() deliberate ? I'm asking because I have received a bug report for a port, and it appears that seteuid() on other systems is indeed equivalent to our setreuid(-1,). Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 08:18:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB8FE16A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 08:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [168.103.84.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1596A43D3F for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 08:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i56FFrli013706 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 09:15:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 09:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20040606.091601.54193508.imp@bsdimp.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Odd requestion: EISA Configuration disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:18:22 -0000 I have managed to really mess up my NEC Express/II P90LT EISA system that I've been trying to get up for some eisa rework I'm doing. Can anybody send me the base motherboard configuration program as well as the aic7770 config files (the ones I've found on the net, along with the configuration program has made a big paperweight out of my box). Thanks for any help you might be able to provide in this matter. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 09:00:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC0616A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 09:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253A143D45 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 09:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.11.7/8.11.6) id i56G03T85066; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:00:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20040606165816.03b4bd68@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:59:47 +0100 To: "M. Warner Losh" , hackers@freebsd.org From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: <20040606.091601.54193508.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20040606.091601.54193508.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: Odd requestion: EISA Configuration disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:00:11 -0000 Hi, At 16:16 06/06/2004, M. Warner Losh wrote: >I have managed to really mess up my NEC Express/II P90LT EISA system >that I've been trying to get up for some eisa rework I'm doing. Can >anybody send me the base motherboard configuration program as well as >the aic7770 config files (the ones I've found on the net, along with >the configuration program has made a big paperweight out of my box). > >Thanks for any help you might be able to provide in this matter. > >Warner Try http://support.necsam.com/downloads/search/default.htm -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 12:15:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B3D16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA3F43D5A; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (junior-wifi.samsco.home [192.168.0.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56JMvcH043370; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:14:57 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040304 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org Subject: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 19:15:31 -0000 All, We are about 4-6 weeks away from starting the 5.3 release cycle. As it stands, KSE still only works reliably on i386. There are reports of significant instability on amd64, and it doesn't work at all on alpha and sparc64. I'm willing to drop the alpha requirement and maybe even the sparc64 requirement, but there absolutely will not be a 5.3 until amd64 is solid. Please contact myself, Dan Eischen, and David Xu if you are interested in helping out. Thanks, Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 12:35:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAB016A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E32743D2F; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i56JZAkK005117; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i56JZA07095921; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i56JZAPL095920; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:35:10 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 19:35:11 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 01:14:57PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > All, > > We are about 4-6 weeks away from starting the 5.3 release cycle. As it > stands, KSE still only works reliably on i386. I don't have any problems on ia64. > ... I'm willing to drop the alpha requirement and maybe even > the sparc64 requirement, but there absolutely will not be a 5.3 until > amd64 is solid. I think sparc64 should have KSE too. If we already accept that sparc64 is feature incomplete, we set/acknowledge a really bad precedence. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 12:55:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C9D16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C9243D41; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:55:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i56JtNtD017955; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:55:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Scott Long In-Reply-To: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 19:55:25 -0000 On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Scott Long wrote: > All, > > We are about 4-6 weeks away from starting the 5.3 release cycle. As it > stands, KSE still only works reliably on i386. There are reports of > significant instability on amd64, and it doesn't work at all on alpha > and sparc64. I'm willing to drop the alpha requirement and maybe even > the sparc64 requirement, but there absolutely will not be a 5.3 until > amd64 is solid. Please contact myself, Dan Eischen, and David Xu if > you are interested in helping out. amd64 looks to be a problem in readline which doesn't seem to redispatch signal handlers with SA_SIGINFO arguments. David also has patches for debugging support at: http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/kse/dbg/ Doug Rabson also has basic TLS support working in perforce. It'd be nice to get TLS and debugging in before 5.3-release. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 13:27:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533A316A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9BD943D46; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:27:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (junior-wifi.samsco.home [192.168.0.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56KZ8Ma043698; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:35:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C37E1C.4000402@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:27:08 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040304 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel Eischen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:27:42 -0000 Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Scott Long wrote: > > >>All, >> >>We are about 4-6 weeks away from starting the 5.3 release cycle. As it >>stands, KSE still only works reliably on i386. There are reports of >>significant instability on amd64, and it doesn't work at all on alpha >>and sparc64. I'm willing to drop the alpha requirement and maybe even >>the sparc64 requirement, but there absolutely will not be a 5.3 until >>amd64 is solid. Please contact myself, Dan Eischen, and David Xu if >>you are interested in helping out. > > > amd64 looks to be a problem in readline which doesn't seem > to redispatch signal handlers with SA_SIGINFO arguments. > > David also has patches for debugging support at: > > http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/kse/dbg/ > > Doug Rabson also has basic TLS support working in perforce. What platforms? My understanding was that new binutils and gcc was needed for sparc64 at a minimum. > It'd be nice to get TLS and debugging in before 5.3-release. > Yes. Be aware that there is a serious effort to get GDB 6.x into the tree for 5.3. That presents us with a bit of a dilemma since David's work is against GDB 5.x. It's hard to back off on the GDB 6 requirement since it is needed for amd64 and sparc64. We need to get David, Marcel, David O'brien, and Alexander Kabaev together to work out the combined picture. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 13:32:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC7716A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03A643D4C; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:32:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (junior-wifi.samsco.home [192.168.0.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56Kduj1043744; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:39:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:31:56 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040304 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marcel Moolenaar References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> In-Reply-To: <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:32:29 -0000 Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 01:14:57PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > >>All, >> >>We are about 4-6 weeks away from starting the 5.3 release cycle. As it >>stands, KSE still only works reliably on i386. > > > I don't have any problems on ia64. > Good to hear =-) > >>... I'm willing to drop the alpha requirement and maybe even >>the sparc64 requirement, but there absolutely will not be a 5.3 until >>amd64 is solid. > > > I think sparc64 should have KSE too. If we already accept that sparc64 > is feature incomplete, we set/acknowledge a really bad precedence. > I do too, but there is the difficult fact in that there are few people out there that are willing to work on sparc64. One person offered to try to learn it and tackle it, but that's a lot to ask. As with Alpha, the fate of a platform rests on the people who are willing to work on it, not on whether it is in a particular list. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 13:48:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE79016A4D3; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016C243D55; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i56KmHmh005403; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i56KmH55096731; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i56KmHd3096730; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:48:17 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20040606204817.GB96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <40C37E1C.4000402@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40C37E1C.4000402@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:48:26 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:27:08PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > > >Doug Rabson also has basic TLS support working in perforce. > > What platforms? My understanding was that new binutils and gcc was > needed for sparc64 at a minimum. Yes. It's i386 only and not even close to being complete. In fact, there has been discussions that the thread pointer on i386 needs to change. Whether that's the case or not, it's likely that TLS will complicate matters way too much to for it to ever work in 5.3. > >It'd be nice to get TLS and debugging in before 5.3-release. > > > > Yes. Be aware that there is a serious effort to get GDB 6.x into the > tree for 5.3. I just asked cvs@ and core@ to advice about importing gdb 6.1 into src/contrib/gdb6. We need to break this vicious circle of people waiting on each other. > That presents us with a bit of a dilemma since David's > work is against GDB 5.x. And not even complete. There are still issues that haven't found a solution or even compromise and it too is only for i386. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:12:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A7E16A4CF; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCD543D1F; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i56LCncF005473; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i56LCnbt096799; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i56LCnZD096798; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:12:49 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:12:50 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:31:56PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > As with Alpha, > the fate of a platform rests on the people who are willing to work on > it, not on whether it is in a particular list. Agreed, but it's the projects responsibility to take the tierness and the intend to support multiple platforms serious and not to chicken out at the first signs of complications or hurdles. We labeled sparc64 as a tier 1 platform and we better deal with the consequences. As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it for his own sake. Wake up, people. This is quickly becoming a joke... -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:27:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C97A16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9CF643D1F; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i56LRutD012553; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Marcel Moolenaar In-Reply-To: <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:27:57 -0000 On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:31:56PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > > As with Alpha, > > the fate of a platform rests on the people who are willing to work on > > it, not on whether it is in a particular list. > > Agreed, but it's the projects responsibility to take the tierness and > the intend to support multiple platforms serious and not to chicken out > at the first signs of complications or hurdles. We labeled sparc64 as > a tier 1 platform and we better deal with the consequences. Not to take away from the tremendous effort that jake had done for sparc64, but it should really take more than one or two supporting developers to obtain tier 1 support. People come and go, and tierness should take that into account. > As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 > without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it > for his own sake. We shouldn't keep an arch at tier 1 just to save face. Better to just lower it to tier 2 and be done with it. My $.02, FWIW. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:35:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AED716A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.elvandar.org (cust.94.120.adsl.cistron.nl [195.64.94.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7F643D46; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:35:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from remko@elvandar.org) Received: from [10.0.3.124] (aragorn.lan.elvandar.intranet [10.0.3.124]) by mail.elvandar.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D1110685E; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:35:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <40C38E11.601@elvandar.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:35:13 +0200 From: Remko Lodder X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel Eischen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at elvandar.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: current@freebsd.org cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:35:22 -0000 Hey all, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > > >>On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:31:56PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: >> >> > > > Not to take away from the tremendous effort that jake had done for > sparc64, but it should really take more than one or two supporting > developers to obtain tier 1 support. People come and go, and > tierness should take that into account. > > We shouldn't keep an arch at tier 1 just to save face. Better to just > lower it to tier 2 and be done with it. My $.02, FWIW. > I agree with Daniel, although i am not developping for freebsd (lack of knowledge). I think that what Daniel says is true, you cannot say that you support a product in a tier 1 status, while you have way to less people to resolve things. In my opinion it's also better to lower it then, and perhaps upgrade it again when more supporters are available to resolve issues. It takes more time to recover from "failed support" then by honestly saying that you don't have the manpower to support it in a tier 1 branch. Besides that i can understand that this will hit certain people, depending on the sparc64 tier 1 status, but perhaps they can support as well.. We need to resolve this with all of us, and if we cannot find enough people to help , then it should -sadly enough- be degraded in tier status. my $0.02 :) -- Kind regards, Remko Lodder Elvandar.org/DSINet.org www.mostly-harmless.nl Dutch community for helping newcomers on the hackerscene From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:47:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A0F16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9232843D1F; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:47:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.0.12] (g4.samsco.home [192.168.0.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56LtD6b044025; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:46:44 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marcel Moolenaar References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> In-Reply-To: <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:47:47 -0000 Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:31:56PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > >>As with Alpha, >>the fate of a platform rests on the people who are willing to work on >>it, not on whether it is in a particular list. > > > Agreed, but it's the projects responsibility to take the tierness and > the intend to support multiple platforms serious and not to chicken out > at the first signs of complications or hurdles. We labeled sparc64 as > a tier 1 platform and we better deal with the consequences. > > As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 > without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it > for his own sake. > > Wake up, people. This is quickly becoming a joke... > It's not that there is face to loose on alpha, it's that every time I announce that alpha is going to be killed unless issues X, Y, and Z are fixed, someone comes along and fixes X, part of Y, and promises to fix Z. There is nothing wrong with this, and I definitely appreciate it when people step up to fix things. However, it does prolong the process and doesn't leave us with 100% of what we need. At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from Tier-1 status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking item for releases. I made it very clear last winter that alpha needed a full time maintainer in order to stay viable, and that really never happened. As I said back then, demotion is not a terminal condition, and I would be thrilled if someone comes forward in the future and brings the platform back up to date. If anyone wants to claim it now and keep it alive for 5.3, they need to both finish KSE, make KSE work reliably, and be very responsive to Kris Kenneway about ports issues. This needs to happen in no more than 4 weeks. After that, I will turn away even the best of intentions. Anyways, moving on, KSE needs attention. Please figure out what can be done for sparc64 and amd64 and do it. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:50:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44A416A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF3E43D2D; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:50:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.0.12] (g4.samsco.home [192.168.0.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56Lvgr3044052; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:57:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C39159.1030102@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:49:13 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wilko Bulte References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <20040606214228.GA44280@freebie.xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <20040606214228.GA44280@freebie.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:50:17 -0000 Wilko Bulte wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:12:49PM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > >>On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:31:56PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: >> >> >>>As with Alpha, >>>the fate of a platform rests on the people who are willing to work on >>>it, not on whether it is in a particular list. >> >>Agreed, but it's the projects responsibility to take the tierness and >>the intend to support multiple platforms serious and not to chicken out >>at the first signs of complications or hurdles. We labeled sparc64 as >>a tier 1 platform and we better deal with the consequences. >> >>As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 >>without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it >>for his own sake. >> >>Wake up, people. This is quickly becoming a joke... > > > Right... > > > > Basically only i386 is a Tier 1. The rest is a joke if it is called Tier 1. > If only because there are insufficient numbers of committers actively > working on the arch. > > (maybe pc98 should be called Tier 1, I just don't know enough about that > one). > > amd64 is approaching critical mass for tier-1. There are a number of developers that own amd64 hardware now, and a number of users who are asking about it on the mailing lists. Peter is finishing up the last blocking item for it (kld's) not including the observed KSE problems. It's very close and I _will_ hold up the release for it to get done. amd64 is the future of commodity computing and we aren't going to ignore it for 5-STABLE. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:53:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C9A16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (217-ip-163.nccn.net [209.79.217.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D2C43D39; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i56Lr487008714; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:53:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200406062153.i56Lr487008714@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: eischen@vigrid.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: current@FreeBSD.org cc: marcel@xcllnt.net Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:53:14 -0000 On 6 Jun, Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > >> On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:31:56PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: >> >> > As with Alpha, >> > the fate of a platform rests on the people who are willing to work on >> > it, not on whether it is in a particular list. >> >> Agreed, but it's the projects responsibility to take the tierness and >> the intend to support multiple platforms serious and not to chicken out >> at the first signs of complications or hurdles. We labeled sparc64 as >> a tier 1 platform and we better deal with the consequences. > > Not to take away from the tremendous effort that jake had done for > sparc64, but it should really take more than one or two supporting > developers to obtain tier 1 support. People come and go, and > tierness should take that into account. I've got some sparc64 hardware that recently became available for FreeBSD develpment. Unfortunately my time available to FreeBSD is likely to be the limiting factor. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:59:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B84116A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1BD43D49; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:59:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (a68a602e37c500f9af2bf8d2775ee0c8@adsl-67-115-73-128.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [67.115.73.128])i56LxMYu027449; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6E4C953F64; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:59:21 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20040606215921.GA96205@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <20040606214228.GA44280@freebie.xs4all.nl> <40C39159.1030102@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40C39159.1030102@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: Marcel Moolenaar cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org cc: Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:59:26 -0000 --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:49:13PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > amd64 is approaching critical mass for tier-1. There are a number of > developers that own amd64 hardware now, and a number of users who are > asking about it on the mailing lists. Peter is finishing up the last > blocking item for it (kld's) not including the observed KSE problems. > It's very close and I _will_ hold up the release for it to get done. > amd64 is the future of commodity computing and we aren't going to > ignore it for 5-STABLE. amd64 has a bug with swapping - when something begins to access swap, the entire system becomes almost entirely unresponsive (e.g. no mouse response for up to 10 seconds) until it stops. Peter has some ideas about it, but it's a serious enough bug that it forced me to stop using amd64 as my desktop machine (hello, kde!). Kris --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAw5O4Wry0BWjoQKURAiPKAJ45IDqrEgb6Y0BFELP5YR6oHLUdNQCfZd7U PUiwpcn9HzOPdxUUSukTvYs= =m5I3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 15:04:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E412C16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84DE043D1F; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i56M4WNP005752; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i56M4WuO097124; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i56M4W6G097123; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:04:32 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Daniel Eischen Message-ID: <20040606220432.GA97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:04:33 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 05:27:56PM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 > > without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it > > for his own sake. > > We shouldn't keep an arch at tier 1 just to save face. Better to just > lower it to tier 2 and be done with it. My $.02, FWIW. You misunderstand my statement. Lowering alpha to tier 2 is what I suggested multiple times before. The point is that we haven't yet and alpha is degenerating more and more while we fail to adjust the tierness. That's where we fail to save face. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 15:13:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B2916A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B515C43D1D; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i56MDUu0005776; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i56MDUAC097164; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i56MDUlb097163; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:13:30 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20040606221330.GB97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:13:31 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:46:44PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > > >As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 > >without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it > >for his own sake. > > It's not that there is face to loose on alpha, it's that every time > I announce that alpha is going to be killed unless issues X, Y, and Z > are fixed, someone comes along and fixes X, part of Y, and promises > to fix Z. I don't read anything I haven't read before. People have made promises before and good intentions notwithstanding, you cannot keep a project hostage this way. Degrade alpha and only promote it after people have actually demonstrated that alpha is tier 1 material after all. > At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from Tier-1 > status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking item for > releases. Just *do* it. You've been advocating for way too long. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 15:31:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD2B16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84343D48; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.0.12] (g4.samsco.home [192.168.0.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56Md4nf044248; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C39B0B.8070102@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:30:35 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marcel Moolenaar References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> <20040606221330.GB97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> In-Reply-To: <20040606221330.GB97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:31:37 -0000 Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:46:44PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > >>>As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 >>>without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it >>>for his own sake. >> >>It's not that there is face to loose on alpha, it's that every time >>I announce that alpha is going to be killed unless issues X, Y, and Z >>are fixed, someone comes along and fixes X, part of Y, and promises >>to fix Z. > > > I don't read anything I haven't read before. People have made promises > before and good intentions notwithstanding, you cannot keep a project > hostage this way. Degrade alpha and only promote it after people have > actually demonstrated that alpha is tier 1 material after all. > > >>At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from Tier-1 >>status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking item for >>releases. > > > Just *do* it. You've been advocating for way too long. > There are always people with good intentions, and they often want to find some way to help. I appreciate this very much and I don't want to turn them away. We also can't make a snap decision in an afternoon and risk missing people who have better things to do on their weekends/holidays than track FreeBSD mail =-) But yes, Alpha has been languishing for too long. I'll say it in a loud voice now: This is the last call for Alpha. It cannot maintain minimum tier-1 requirements and it will be demoted for 5.3. Unless you currently have access to a representative selection of hardware, the knowledge to track down platform-specific issues, the willingness to handle the current outstanding issues, and the time to do it for the next 18 months, please accept my regrets on it. Again, while I appreciate people who can pick away at some of the lesser issues or want to learn the bigger things, we need a 100% maintenance and development solution. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 16:20:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C612716A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.server.rpi.edu (smtp2.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A3D743D46; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp2.server.rpi.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i56NJvIX007011; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:19:57 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:19:56 -0400 To: Scott Long , Marcel Moolenaar From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:20:00 -0000 At 3:46 PM -0600 6/6/04, Scott Long wrote: > >At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from >Tier-1 status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking >item for releases. ... As I said back then, demotion is not a >terminal condition, and I would be thrilled if someone comes >forward in the future and brings the platform back up to date. I think you have to officially demote it, with emphasis on the point that "demotion is not a terminal condition". Then, if some developer(s) show up and implement all the missing pieces, we can happily announce it back in tier 1. But for now, say that it *IS* demoted. Not that you're advocating that we think about maybe demoting it in the future unless someone offers to start looking into the missing pieces. At the moment, it probably also makes sense to demote sparc64, even though I own one of those. Not that we have anything against it, but as a practical matter we haven't hit "critical mass" on it just yet. Since I am interested in sparc64, I can take that as a goal to help make it a tier-1 platform by 5.4-release... -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 16:50:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7965E16A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2229A43D3F for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:50:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (junior-wifi.samsco.home [192.168.0.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56Nvaa9044478; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C3AD8F.1090206@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 17:49:35 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040304 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garance A Drosihn References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:50:09 -0000 Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 3:46 PM -0600 6/6/04, Scott Long wrote: > >> >> At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from >> Tier-1 status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking >> item for releases. ... As I said back then, demotion is not a >> terminal condition, and I would be thrilled if someone comes >> forward in the future and brings the platform back up to date. > > > I think you have to officially demote it, with emphasis on the > point that "demotion is not a terminal condition". Then, if some > developer(s) show up and implement all the missing pieces, we > can happily announce it back in tier 1. > > But for now, say that it *IS* demoted. Not that you're advocating > that we think about maybe demoting it in the future unless someone > offers to start looking into the missing pieces. > > At the moment, it probably also makes sense to demote sparc64, > even though I own one of those. Not that we have anything against > it, but as a practical matter we haven't hit "critical mass" on it > just yet. Since I am interested in sparc64, I can take that as a > goal to help make it a tier-1 platform by 5.4-release... > Ok, thanks for all of the input. I'm going to wait a few more days for anyone else to chime in and then discuss it with re@ and core@. We'll likely have a formal announcement in a week. Back to the topic at hand, who is looking that the other KSE issues? Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 02:01:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8278F16A4CE; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:01:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B439643D2D; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i571xxrE006401; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:59:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i571xwnj097769; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:59:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i571xwvt097768; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:59:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:59:58 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Matthias Andree Message-ID: <20040607015958.GA97735@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 02:01:18 -0000 On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 02:32:11AM +0200, Matthias Andree wrote: > Marcel Moolenaar writes: > > > As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 > > without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it > > for his own sake. > > Alpha is special, with what seems to me like a GDB bug. Try this: > > echo '#include > int main() {abort();}' >abortme.c > gcc -O2 -o abortme abortme.c > ./abortme > gdb ./abortme ./core.abortme > (inside gdb:) backtrace > (inside gdb:) backtrace full > (inside gdb:) quit > > This stuff is run as part of the ports/mail/bogofilter test suite (which > is part of the build) determine if core dumps from the build logs are > usable. > > A couple of days ago, the backtrace of the trivial program ended up in > an unterminated loop on the build cluster, GDB kept repeating stack > frame #0. Whoops. The other architectures appeared fine though. This is fixed in gdb 6.x: GNU gdb 6.1.0.90_20040413 [FreeBSD] Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "alpha-intree-freebsd"... Core was generated by `abortme'. Program terminated with signal 6, Aborted. Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.5...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.5 Reading symbols from /libexec/ld-elf.so.1...done. Loaded symbols for /libexec/ld-elf.so.1 #0 0x00000001601b29bc in kill () from /lib/libc.so.5 (gdb) l 1 #include 2 int main() 3 { 4 abort(); 5 } (gdb) bt #0 0x00000001601b29bc in kill () from /lib/libc.so.5 #1 0x00000001601a5298 in raise () from /lib/libc.so.5 #2 0x0000000160233f88 in abort () from /lib/libc.so.5 #3 0x00000001200008a0 in main () at abortme.c:4 (gdb) An import of gdb 6.1 or gdb 6.1.1 will resolve this. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 04:24:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF69E16A566; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 04:24:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.omnis.com (smtp.omnis.com [216.239.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86F1E43D2D; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 04:24:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.homeunix.net (24-161-166-146.san.rr.com [24.161.166.146]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1616814077F4; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:24:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr.COM To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:24:32 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <40C3AD8F.1090206@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <40C3AD8F.1090206@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200406062124.33397.wes@softweyr.com> cc: Garance A Drosihn cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 04:24:36 -0000 On Sunday 06 June 2004 16:49, Scott Long wrote: > Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > At 3:46 PM -0600 6/6/04, Scott Long wrote: > >> At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from > >> Tier-1 status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking > >> item for releases. ... As I said back then, demotion is not a > >> terminal condition, and I would be thrilled if someone comes > >> forward in the future and brings the platform back up to date. > > > > I think you have to officially demote it, with emphasis on the > > point that "demotion is not a terminal condition". Then, if some > > developer(s) show up and implement all the missing pieces, we > > can happily announce it back in tier 1. > > > > But for now, say that it *IS* demoted. Not that you're advocating > > that we think about maybe demoting it in the future unless someone > > offers to start looking into the missing pieces. > > > > At the moment, it probably also makes sense to demote sparc64, > > even though I own one of those. Not that we have anything against > > it, but as a practical matter we haven't hit "critical mass" on it > > just yet. Since I am interested in sparc64, I can take that as a > > goal to help make it a tier-1 platform by 5.4-release... > > Ok, thanks for all of the input. I'm going to wait a few more days for > anyone else to chime in and then discuss it with re@ and core@. We'll > likely have a formal announcement in a week. > > Back to the topic at hand, who is looking that the other KSE issues? The "tierness" of a particular platform wasn't all that important as long as FreeBSD 5 remained a development branch, but with 5-STABLE rapidly approaching, it will become much more important. When we first documented the tier approach, we selected sparc64 as the reference 64-bit platform, because it was at that time the most viable and the most actively developed platform. This was shortly before the Athlon64 release, which has turned into an avalanche. None of the current tiers are set in stone, in fact, they're not really very firm at all. The stability and completeness of each will have to be evaluated as the 5.3 release becomes real and adjustments made. It wouldn't surprise me to see a new 64-bit reference platform chosen; the momentum in that arena has definitely shifted. As an aside, I would sadden me greatly to see sparc64 or alpha abandoned. Even sadder (to me) is how little I've been able to contribute to either. I don't have time to bring my sparc skills up to working on FreeBSD internals and I'm not likely to suddenly grow more time soon. I do have an Ultra 5 workstation that is free to any developer in North America who will use it to further FreeBSD development. I'll contact dlo@ with details. sparc64 and alpha need a few champions. Without them, these ports will quickly be relegated to the bit-bucket. At any rate, FreeBSD will continue to move, in a direction we've decided to call "forward." -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 04:24:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF69E16A566; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 04:24:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.omnis.com (smtp.omnis.com [216.239.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86F1E43D2D; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 04:24:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.homeunix.net (24-161-166-146.san.rr.com [24.161.166.146]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1616814077F4; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:24:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr.COM To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:24:32 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <40C3AD8F.1090206@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <40C3AD8F.1090206@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200406062124.33397.wes@softweyr.com> cc: Garance A Drosihn cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 04:24:36 -0000 On Sunday 06 June 2004 16:49, Scott Long wrote: > Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > At 3:46 PM -0600 6/6/04, Scott Long wrote: > >> At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from > >> Tier-1 status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking > >> item for releases. ... As I said back then, demotion is not a > >> terminal condition, and I would be thrilled if someone comes > >> forward in the future and brings the platform back up to date. > > > > I think you have to officially demote it, with emphasis on the > > point that "demotion is not a terminal condition". Then, if some > > developer(s) show up and implement all the missing pieces, we > > can happily announce it back in tier 1. > > > > But for now, say that it *IS* demoted. Not that you're advocating > > that we think about maybe demoting it in the future unless someone > > offers to start looking into the missing pieces. > > > > At the moment, it probably also makes sense to demote sparc64, > > even though I own one of those. Not that we have anything against > > it, but as a practical matter we haven't hit "critical mass" on it > > just yet. Since I am interested in sparc64, I can take that as a > > goal to help make it a tier-1 platform by 5.4-release... > > Ok, thanks for all of the input. I'm going to wait a few more days for > anyone else to chime in and then discuss it with re@ and core@. We'll > likely have a formal announcement in a week. > > Back to the topic at hand, who is looking that the other KSE issues? The "tierness" of a particular platform wasn't all that important as long as FreeBSD 5 remained a development branch, but with 5-STABLE rapidly approaching, it will become much more important. When we first documented the tier approach, we selected sparc64 as the reference 64-bit platform, because it was at that time the most viable and the most actively developed platform. This was shortly before the Athlon64 release, which has turned into an avalanche. None of the current tiers are set in stone, in fact, they're not really very firm at all. The stability and completeness of each will have to be evaluated as the 5.3 release becomes real and adjustments made. It wouldn't surprise me to see a new 64-bit reference platform chosen; the momentum in that arena has definitely shifted. As an aside, I would sadden me greatly to see sparc64 or alpha abandoned. Even sadder (to me) is how little I've been able to contribute to either. I don't have time to bring my sparc skills up to working on FreeBSD internals and I'm not likely to suddenly grow more time soon. I do have an Ultra 5 workstation that is free to any developer in North America who will use it to further FreeBSD development. I'll contact dlo@ with details. sparc64 and alpha need a few champions. Without them, these ports will quickly be relegated to the bit-bucket. At any rate, FreeBSD will continue to move, in a direction we've decided to call "forward." -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 04:38:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20AE16A4E2; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 04:38:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [168.103.84.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5724643D46; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 04:38:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i574ZYgg010043; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:35:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:35:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20040606.223544.13027668.imp@bsdimp.com> To: marcel@xcllnt.net From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20040606220432.GA97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <20040606220432.GA97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: scottl@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 04:38:04 -0000 In message: <20040606220432.GA97091@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Marcel Moolenaar writes: : On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 05:27:56PM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: : > : > > As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 : > > without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it : > > for his own sake. : > : > We shouldn't keep an arch at tier 1 just to save face. Better to just : > lower it to tier 2 and be done with it. My $.02, FWIW. : : You misunderstand my statement. Lowering alpha to tier 2 is what I : suggested multiple times before. The point is that we haven't yet : and alpha is degenerating more and more while we fail to adjust : the tierness. That's where we fail to save face. I tend to agree. Tierness is a combination of politics and technical reality. The rality of the situation with alpha is that it has had no clothes long enough that it no longer reflects the Tier-1 ideas that we strive to attain. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 09:54:46 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4D516A4CE; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:54:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from TRANG.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.93.134.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F07943D2D; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:54:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by TRANG.nuxi.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i579sgdY030086; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i579sfDj030085; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:54:41 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Daniel Eischen Message-ID: <20040607095441.GC29340@dragon.nuxi.com> Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Daniel Eischen , Scott Long , hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.2-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: Scott Long cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:54:46 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:55:23PM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > David also has patches for debugging support at: > http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/kse/dbg/ Unless David Xu completes full FSF paper work, we can't use his patches. Using them tants us forever in getting stock GDB to support our threading. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 09:56:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4CED16A4CE; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:56:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from TRANG.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.93.134.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED6E43D48; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:56:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by TRANG.nuxi.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i579u49R030161; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i579u354030160; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:56:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:56:02 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Marcel Moolenaar Message-ID: <20040607095602.GD29340@dragon.nuxi.com> Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Marcel Moolenaar , Scott Long , hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org References: <40C37E1C.4000402@freebsd.org> <20040606204817.GB96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040606204817.GB96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.2-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:56:10 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 01:48:17PM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:27:08PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > > > > >Doug Rabson also has basic TLS support working in perforce. > > > > What platforms? My understanding was that new binutils and gcc was > > needed for sparc64 at a minimum. > > Yes. It's i386 only and not even close to being complete. In fact, > there has been discussions that the thread pointer on i386 needs to > change. Whether that's the case or not, it's likely that TLS will > complicate matters way too much to for it to ever work in 5.3. > > > >It'd be nice to get TLS and debugging in before 5.3-release. > > > > > > > Yes. Be aware that there is a serious effort to get GDB 6.x into the > > tree for 5.3. > > I just asked cvs@ and core@ to advice about importing gdb 6.1 into > src/contrib/gdb6. We need to break this vicious circle of people > waiting on each other. This came up before and you were already asked not to import into src/contrib/gdb6 (and what email would be sent to Core if you did). Any GDB imports need to go into src/contrib/gdb/. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:43:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5F416A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out5.xs4all.nl (smtp-out5.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C33E43D2D; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:43:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by smtp-out5.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56LhFUY068069; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:43:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i56LgS99044309; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:42:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i56LgSYM044308; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:42:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:42:28 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Marcel Moolenaar Message-ID: <20040606214228.GA44280@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.10-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:43:20 +0000 cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:43:16 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:12:49PM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:31:56PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > > As with Alpha, > > the fate of a platform rests on the people who are willing to work on > > it, not on whether it is in a particular list. > > Agreed, but it's the projects responsibility to take the tierness and > the intend to support multiple platforms serious and not to chicken out > at the first signs of complications or hurdles. We labeled sparc64 as > a tier 1 platform and we better deal with the consequences. > > As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 > without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it > for his own sake. > > Wake up, people. This is quickly becoming a joke... Right... Basically only i386 is a Tier 1. The rest is a joke if it is called Tier 1. If only because there are insufficient numbers of committers actively working on the arch. (maybe pc98 should be called Tier 1, I just don't know enough about that one). -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 17:32:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C12116A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de (mail.dt.e-technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.163.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5CE43D45; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:32:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ma@dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de) Received: from m2a2.dyndns.org (krusty.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de [129.217.163.1])DC0692854A; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:32:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F8A0BF9C0; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:32:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from merlin.emma.line.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (m2a2.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 14257-06; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:32:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 28109BE882; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:32:11 +0200 (CEST) To: Marcel Moolenaar In-Reply-To: <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> (Marcel Moolenaar's message of "Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:12:49 -0700") References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> From: Matthias Andree Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 02:32:11 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at m2a2.dyndns.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:43:20 +0000 cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:32:16 -0000 Marcel Moolenaar writes: > As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 > without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it > for his own sake. Alpha is special, with what seems to me like a GDB bug. Try this: echo '#include int main() {abort();}' >abortme.c gcc -O2 -o abortme abortme.c ./abortme gdb ./abortme ./core.abortme (inside gdb:) backtrace (inside gdb:) backtrace full (inside gdb:) quit This stuff is run as part of the ports/mail/bogofilter test suite (which is part of the build) determine if core dumps from the build logs are usable. A couple of days ago, the backtrace of the trivial program ended up in an unterminated loop on the build cluster, GDB kept repeating stack frame #0. Whoops. The other architectures appeared fine though. I haven't bothered to file a PR as I don't have an Alpha machine and I'm not comfortable with filing second-hand bugs. -- Matthias Andree Encrypted mail welcome: my GnuPG key ID is 0x052E7D95 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 12:26:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BF116A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:26:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail3.speakeasy.net (mail3.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC63D43D4C for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:26:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 14897 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2004 12:26:35 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Jun 2004 12:26:34 -0000 Received: from slimer.baldwin.cx (slimer.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.16]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i57CQQFI002358; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:26:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:27:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: <00da01c44b3f$74d3d8c0$0400a8c0@redguy> In-Reply-To: <00da01c44b3f$74d3d8c0$0400a8c0@redguy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200406070827.21333.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx cc: Robert Watson cc: Ali Niknam Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.2.1: Mutex/Spinlock starvation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:26:37 -0000 On Saturday 05 June 2004 04:55 pm, Ali Niknam wrote: > Hi Robert, > > As promised my findings regarding the changes; just came home after a night > of trying and praying :) > > > Actually, by default, most mutexes in the system are sleep mutexes, so > > they sleep on contention rather than spinning. In some cases, this > > actually hurts more than spinning, because if the mutex is released > > quickly by the holder, then you pay the context switches which cost > > more than spinning for the short period of time. > > > > You might want to try adding "options ADAPTIVE_MUTEXES" to your kernel > > configuration, which will cause mutexes to spin briefly on SMP systems > > before sleeping, and has been observed to improve performance quite a > > bit. > > I tried this; this helps performance a lot, here are the findings: > - under all conditions turning on HTT helps a *lot* (which is logical i > think) > - under non killing load (killing load = load where server would have > crashed without this option) it performs much much better > - under killing load it performs a lot better, up until a certain level: > - a new killing level: from this point onward basically the same thing > happens as before.. > > What i'm guessing is that probably this new killing level occurs when load > is so high that the spins 'adapt' into blocks. From your description above > I understand that there's a certain timeout when 'spinning' mutexes turn > into 'blocking'/'sleeping' mutexes. Is there a way to set this timeout ? I > would very much like to try out what would happen if one would set this > timeout to a quite high value. There isn't a timeout. Rather, the lock spins so long as the current owning thread is executing on another CPU. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 14:48:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6271916A4D2 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:48:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A7C1443D1D for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:48:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tmoestl@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 26186 invoked by uid 65534); 7 Jun 2004 14:48:05 -0000 Received: from p50907740.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO timesink.dyndns.org) (80.144.119.64) by mail.gmx.net (mp025) with SMTP; 07 Jun 2004 16:48:05 +0200 X-Authenticated: #5374206 Received: by raven (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AFFFEBC; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:48:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:48:04 +0200 From: Thomas Moestl To: Kris Kennaway Message-ID: <20040607144804.GA1594@timesink.dyndns.org> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <20040606214228.GA44280@freebie.xs4all.nl> <40C39159.1030102@freebsd.org> <20040606215921.GA96205@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040606215921.GA96205@xor.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org cc: peter@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:10 -0000 On Sun, 2004/06/06 at 14:59:21 -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:49:13PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > amd64 is approaching critical mass for tier-1. There are a number of > > developers that own amd64 hardware now, and a number of users who are > > asking about it on the mailing lists. Peter is finishing up the last > > blocking item for it (kld's) not including the observed KSE problems. > > It's very close and I _will_ hold up the release for it to get done. > > amd64 is the future of commodity computing and we aren't going to > > ignore it for 5-STABLE. > > amd64 has a bug with swapping - when something begins to access swap, > the entire system becomes almost entirely unresponsive (e.g. no mouse > response for up to 10 seconds) until it stops. Peter has some ideas > about it, but it's a serious enough bug that it forced me to stop > using amd64 as my desktop machine (hello, kde!). Hmmm, I have encountered a similar problem on sparc64 once; the reason was that vm_pageout_map_deactivate_pages() calls pmap_remove() for the range from the start to the end of the process's vm_map when a process is swapped out. Start and end are VM_MIN_ADDRESS and VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS respectively, and on 64-bit architectures, that range is very large (128TB on ia64 if I'm not mistaken), so the iteration in pmap_remove() must be carefully designed to make as large steps as possible to avoid long run times (or to not iterate over the range at all if it becomes too large, which we did on sparc64). It seems that the amd64 version of pmap_remove() will essentially always iterate in 2MB (level 2 page table) steps, regardless of whether there is mapping for the respective level 2 table in the table levels above; that means that in the previously mentioned case, the outer loop will usually run for about 67 million iterations (the resident count guard may not be of much use here if a stack page is left at the very end of the address space). Since there are a few memory accesses needed in each iterations, that may already be the cause of such a delay. I have no hardware to test this, so all of the above is just a wild- assed guess; but maybe it is of use (and sorry for the spam if it is not). - Thomas -- Thomas Moestl http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0015675/ http://people.FreeBSD.org/~tmm/ "I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity." -- Calvin and Hobbes From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 15:03:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2A816A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:03:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.secureworks.net (mail.secureworks.net [209.101.212.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 696D543D54 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:03:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mdg@secureworks.net) Received: (qmail 40097 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2004 15:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO HOST-192-168-8-243.internal.secureworks.net) (209.101.212.253) by mail.secureworks.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 2004 15:03:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:03:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Matthew George X-X-Sender: mdg@localhost To: David Scheidt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040607110137.G11275@localhost> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Hackers FreeBSD Subject: Re: general Darwin imports (was Re: Darwin cmd import?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:03:44 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, David Scheidt wrote: > > Just about all of that is listed as covered by the APSL. (Except GPL'd > stuff, it looks like.) > > I noticed this as well, but if you look at the contents (of libc in this case), there are several */FreeBSD/ directories that contain files that retain their original copyrights, along with patches. -- Matthew George SecureWorks Technical Operations From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 15:37:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F03016A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:37:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F171043D2F for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:37:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (junior-wifi.samsco.home [192.168.0.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i57FjHrw048717; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:45:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C48BA8.6090005@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:37:12 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040304 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garance A Drosihn References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:37:47 -0000 Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 3:46 PM -0600 6/6/04, Scott Long wrote: > >> >> At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from >> Tier-1 status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking >> item for releases. ... As I said back then, demotion is not a >> terminal condition, and I would be thrilled if someone comes >> forward in the future and brings the platform back up to date. > > > I think you have to officially demote it, with emphasis on the > point that "demotion is not a terminal condition". Then, if some > developer(s) show up and implement all the missing pieces, we > can happily announce it back in tier 1. > > But for now, say that it *IS* demoted. Not that you're advocating > that we think about maybe demoting it in the future unless someone > offers to start looking into the missing pieces. > > At the moment, it probably also makes sense to demote sparc64, > even though I own one of those. Not that we have anything against > it, but as a practical matter we haven't hit "critical mass" on it > just yet. Since I am interested in sparc64, I can take that as a > goal to help make it a tier-1 platform by 5.4-release... > One thing to note is that whatever platforms get dropped from tier-1 status will have a high probablility of not getting updated with the upcoming binutils/gcc/gdb update that is coming. Therefore, if we are going to drop a platform, we had better be very serious about it since bringing it back up might be hard. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 15:48:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A2C016A4CE; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:48:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C360843D5A; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:48:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i57Fm8tv009525; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i57Fm8MC066971; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i57Fm8XG066970; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:48:08 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20040607154808.GA66937@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> <40C48BA8.6090005@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40C48BA8.6090005@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:48:12 -0000 On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 09:37:12AM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > One thing to note is that whatever platforms get dropped from tier-1 > status will have a high probablility of not getting updated with the > upcoming binutils/gcc/gdb update that is coming. Logic dictates that the probability should be 0. One cannot reach tier 1 from any tier >1 if binutils, gcc and gdb are not working. Hence, any tier 2 platform must already be supported by binutils, gcc and gdb. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 16:26:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7517716A4CE; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:26:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from canning.wemm.org (canning.wemm.org [192.203.228.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576C443D66; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:26:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from peter@evilpete.dyndns.org) Received: from fw.wemm.org (canning.wemm.org [192.203.228.65]) by canning.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA4F2A7EA; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:26:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@overcee.wemm.org) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF0EE29E; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:26:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@overcee.wemm.org) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i57GQHVY022152; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:26:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@overcee.wemm.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by overcee.wemm.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i57GQBKJ022151; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter) From: Peter Wemm To: Thomas Moestl Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:26:11 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606215921.GA96205@xor.obsecurity.org> <20040607143332.GA1311@timesink.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <20040607143332.GA1311@timesink.dyndns.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200406070926.11289.peter@wemm.org> cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org cc: peter@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:26:19 -0000 On Monday 07 June 2004 07:33 am, Thomas Moestl wrote: > On Sun, 2004/06/06 at 14:59:21 -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:49:13PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > > amd64 is approaching critical mass for tier-1. There are a > > > number of developers that own amd64 hardware now, and a number of > > > users who are asking about it on the mailing lists. Peter is > > > finishing up the last blocking item for it (kld's) not including > > > the observed KSE problems. It's very close and I _will_ hold up > > > the release for it to get done. amd64 is the future of commodity > > > computing and we aren't going to ignore it for 5-STABLE. > > > > amd64 has a bug with swapping - when something begins to access > > swap, the entire system becomes almost entirely unresponsive (e.g. > > no mouse response for up to 10 seconds) until it stops. Peter has > > some ideas about it, but it's a serious enough bug that it forced > > me to stop using amd64 as my desktop machine (hello, kde!). > > Hmmm, I have encountered a similar problem on sparc64 once; the > reason was that vm_pageout_map_deactivate_pages() calls > pmap_remove() for the range from the start to the end of the > process's vm_map when a process is swapped out. Start and end > are VM_MIN_ADDRESS and VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS respectively, and on > 64-bit architectures, that range is very large (128TB on ia64 > if I'm not mistaken), so the iteration in pmap_remove() must > be carefully designed to make as large steps as possible to > avoid long run times (or to not iterate over the range at all > if it becomes too large, which we did on sparc64). > > It seems that the amd64 version of pmap_remove() will essentially > always iterate in 2MB (level 2 page table) steps, regardless of > whether there is mapping for the respective level 2 table in the > table levels above; that means that in the previously mentioned case, > the outer loop will usually run for about 67 million iterations (the > resident count guard may not be of much use here if a stack page is > left at the very end of the address space). Since there are a few > memory accesses needed in each iterations, that may already be the > cause of such a delay. You know, this sounds spot-on! Thanks for the tip! -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 16:58:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B819C16A4CE; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:58:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp2.server.rpi.edu (smtp2.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738F143D41; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:58:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp2.server.rpi.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i57Gw9IX021342; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:58:09 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <40C48BA8.6090005@freebsd.org> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> <40C48BA8.6090005@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:58:07 -0400 To: Scott Long From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:58:13 -0000 At 9:37 AM -0600 6/7/04, Scott Long wrote: >Garance A Drosihn wrote: >> >>I think you have to officially demote it, with emphasis on the >>point that "demotion is not a terminal condition". Then, if some >>developer(s) show up and implement all the missing pieces, we >>can happily announce it back in tier 1. >> >>But for now, say that it *IS* demoted. Not that you're advocating >>that we think about maybe demoting it in the future unless someone >>offers to start looking into the missing pieces. > >One thing to note is that whatever platforms get dropped from tier-1 >status will have a high probablility of not getting updated with the >upcoming binutils/gcc/gdb update that is coming. If that is the case, then you can not say "demotion is not a terminal condition". That sounds pretty terminal to me. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 18:07:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B02816A4D0 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 18:07:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail5.speakeasy.net (mail5.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB4743D1D for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 18:07:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 24141 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2004 18:07:35 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Jun 2004 18:07:34 -0000 Received: from 10.50.41.233 (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i57I7V6G004214; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:07:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: "Ali Niknam" Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:08:19 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: <200406070827.21333.jhb@FreeBSD.org> <00bd01c44cb5$ccf5f840$0400a8c0@redguy> In-Reply-To: <00bd01c44cb5$ccf5f840$0400a8c0@redguy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200406071408.19464.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: Robert Watson Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.2.1: Mutex/Spinlock starvation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 18:07:35 -0000 On Monday 07 June 2004 01:35 pm, Ali Niknam wrote: > > There isn't a timeout. Rather, the lock spins so long as the current > > owning thread is executing on another CPU. > > Interesting. Is there a way to 'lock' CPU's so that they always run on > 'another' CPU ? Not in userland, no. > Unfortunately as we speak the server is down again :( This all makes me > wonder wether I should simply go back to 4.10. > I decreased the maximum number of apache children to 1400 and the server > seems to be barely holding on: > last pid: 2483; load averages: 75.77, 28.63, 11.40 up 0+00:04:32 > 19:35:07 > 1438 processes:2 running, 294 sleeping, 1142 lock > CPU states: 6.2% user, 0.0% nice, 62.6% system, 7.5% interrupt, 23.8% > idle > Mem: 698M Active, 27M Inact, 209M Wired, 440K Cache, 96M Buf, 1068M Free > Swap: 512M Total, 512M Free > > > Are there anymore quite stable things to do ? That is except for upping to > current, which I frankly feel is too dangerous... Nothing that I can think of off the top of my head. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 21:55:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58DA016A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:55:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB4A43D2F for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:55:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A283D34; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:55:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Chris Costello Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:55:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <40C4AC29.10277.4951F0A6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1086643876.30998.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20031005111656.R18760@xeon.unixathome.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: testing for substrings in perl X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 21:55:55 -0000 On 7 Jun 2004 at 16:31, Chris Costello wrote: > On Sun, 2003-10-05 at 10:32, Dan Langille wrote: > > > I think it might just be easier to do a straight comparison of the first N > > characters of the two strings where N = length of the directory name. > > > > Any suggestions? > > You can do: > > if ($string =~ /\/?\Q$expr\E/) { > # ... matches ... > } > > \Q and \E are special metaquoting classes in perlre designed > specifically for cases like this. > > See 'man perlre' for more gory info. Who is lagged here Chris? Thanks for the reply though. FWIW, I suspect this was a FreshPorts-releated issue, and I think I was trying to solve this problem: is any file touched by this commit in the ports tree? foreach $value (@{$Files}) { my ($action, $filename, $revision, $commit_log_element_id) = @$value; print " processing $filename\n"; if ($filename =~ m|^/?ports/|) { $PortTreeCommit = 1; last; } } -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 22:10:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1249716A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:10:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (ar59.lsanca2-4.27.98.47.lsanca2.dsl-verizon.net [4.27.98.47]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB61843D5C for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:10:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i578UppN014083; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 01:30:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id i578Up7J014082; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 01:30:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 01:30:51 -0700 From: David Schultz To: "Stefan =?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?Q?E=DFer?=" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <20040607083051.GA13982@VARK.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Stefan =?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?Q?E=DFer?=" , hackers@freebsd.org References: <20040606124734.GA2687@StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040606124734.GA2687@StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: Semantics of "seteuid(uid)" vs. "setreuid(-1,uid)" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:10:34 -0000 On Sun, Jun 06, 2004, Stefan Eer wrote: > Any reason, that there is a difference in semantics between: > > seteuid(id) vs. setreuid(-1, id) ??? > > The tests performed on the arguments are different (assuming a > fixed arg of -1 for ruid) in that seteuid does not support the > case of (euid == cr_uid): > [...] > Is the difference between seteuid() and setreuid() deliberate ? The best rationale I can think of is that setreuid(x, geteuid()) does something useful, whereas seteuid(geteuid()) is a no-op. I think the seteuid() behavior you complain about exists for purely historical reasons. POSIX does not require seteuid(geteuid()) to succeed, but it implicitly allows it as an extension. Solaris and Linux have this extension. The trouble with tweaking the interface is that you always have to ask: what new security holes could this open up in existing software? Hao Chen points out that the failure of seteuid(geteuid()) in FreeBSD is one of many tricky issues with using the set*uid() interface portably. In my (biased) opinion, his Setuid Demystified paper, is well worth reading if you want to untangle this stuff in your mind: http://www.usenix.org/events/sec02/full_papers/chen/chen.pdf From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 8 01:15:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from green.homeunix.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B916016A4CE; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 01:15:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from green.homeunix.org (green@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by green.homeunix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i581Fi2q023262; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:15:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.homeunix.org) Received: (from green@localhost) by green.homeunix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i581FhHF023261; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:15:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:15:43 -0400 From: Brian Feldman To: Ali Niknam Message-ID: <20040608011543.GC23083@green.homeunix.org> References: <00da01c44b3f$74d3d8c0$0400a8c0@redguy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00da01c44b3f$74d3d8c0$0400a8c0@redguy> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Robert Watson Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.2.1: Mutex/Spinlock starvation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:15:45 -0000 On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 10:55:31PM +0200, Ali Niknam wrote: > I tried this; this helps performance a lot, here are the findings: > - under all conditions turning on HTT helps a *lot* (which is logical i > think) > - under non killing load (killing load = load where server would have > crashed without this option) it performs much much better > - under killing load it performs a lot better, up until a certain level: > - a new killing level: from this point onward basically the same thing > happens as before.. Something is happening which should not be at a much more fundamental level. Something is going on to cause everything to block in Giant. That could be some exceptionally-long operation that executes, holding Giant, without andy context switches. In general, this is really what you would call a "deadlock," but at least you can recover from it. If the system is totally unresponsive to your input, is it still working from the standpoint of the users on it? Are there strange syslog messages? Can you watch the history of sysctl vm.vmtotal, sysctl vm.zone, and vmstat -m to see if it's a memory starvation issue? -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \'[ FreeBSD ]''''''''''\ <> green@FreeBSD.org \ The Power to Serve! \ Opinions expressed are my own. \,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,\ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 8 06:35:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC8C316A4CE for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 06:35:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mpb4.plala.or.jp (c156253.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.156.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F8F43D45 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 06:35:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp) Received: from msvc2.plala.or.jp ([172.23.8.210]) by mpb4.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20040608063545.XPML19680.mpb4.plala.or.jp@msvc2.plala.or.jp> for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:35:45 +0900 Received: ( 7565 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2004 15:35:45 +0900 X-SVCK: Received: from unknown (HELO mpb1.plala.or.jp) (172.23.8.16) by msvc2 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2004 15:35:44 +0900 Received: from trio.plala.or.jp ([219.25.148.126]) by mpb1.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20040608063544.UPLK19716.mpb1.plala.or.jp@trio.plala.or.jp> for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:35:44 +0900 Message-ID: <40C55F91.6010306@trio.plala.or.jp> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:41:21 +0900 From: Eitarou Kamo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.8.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: splusb splx X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 06:35:47 -0000 Hi all, I'm new to this list. and I have some question about uhci.c and USB issue. What are the splusb() and splx()? and how is the reration between uhci_idone() and splusb()? Above the uhci_idone() in uhci.c "/* called at splusb() */" is mentioned. Any helps are appreciated. Thanks in advance. Eitarou -- *********************** Eitarou Kamo Tel. +81 75 7035997 Fax +81 75 7035997 VoIP 050 10585997(domestic only) e$B!>(Bmail e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp For business: Feel free to mail me(above), please. Donation http://www.PayPal.Com GPG FingerPrint: 032D FDF9 D27B 23F7 9A81 BF4C 626C FBAA BC3A 9895 ************************************************************************ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 17:35:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9121616A4CE; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:35:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from relay.transip.nl (relay.transip.nl [80.69.66.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3205B43D39; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:35:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ali@transip.nl) Received: from redguy (peris.demon.nl [212.238.139.202]) by relay.transip.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D9ED34A33A; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:35:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00bd01c44cb5$ccf5f840$0400a8c0@redguy> From: "Ali Niknam" To: "John Baldwin" , References: <00da01c44b3f$74d3d8c0$0400a8c0@redguy> <200406070827.21333.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:35:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:27:51 +0000 cc: Robert Watson Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.2.1: Mutex/Spinlock starvation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:35:18 -0000 > There isn't a timeout. Rather, the lock spins so long as the current > owning thread is executing on another CPU. Interesting. Is there a way to 'lock' CPU's so that they always run on 'another' CPU ? Unfortunately as we speak the server is down again :( This all makes me wonder wether I should simply go back to 4.10. I decreased the maximum number of apache children to 1400 and the server seems to be barely holding on: last pid: 2483; load averages: 75.77, 28.63, 11.40 up 0+00:04:32 19:35:07 1438 processes:2 running, 294 sleeping, 1142 lock CPU states: 6.2% user, 0.0% nice, 62.6% system, 7.5% interrupt, 23.8% idle Mem: 698M Active, 27M Inact, 209M Wired, 440K Cache, 96M Buf, 1068M Free Swap: 512M Total, 512M Free Are there anymore quite stable things to do ? That is except for upping to current, which I frankly feel is too dangerous... -- Ali Niknam | tel 0182-504424 | fax 0182-504460 Transip B.V. | http://www.transip.nl/ | Mensen met verstand van zaken. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 8 14:59:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from green.homeunix.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB30216A4CE; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:59:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from green.homeunix.org (green@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by green.homeunix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i58ExN8S028130; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 10:59:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.homeunix.org) Received: (from green@localhost) by green.homeunix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i58ExMNo028129; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 10:59:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 10:59:21 -0400 From: Brian Feldman To: Alan Evans Message-ID: <20040608145921.GD23083@green.homeunix.org> References: <20040606010831.85923.qmail@web80106.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040606010831.85923.qmail@web80106.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: machine is unusable with panic: vrele: negative ref cnt X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:59:25 -0000 On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 06:08:31PM -0700, Alan Evans wrote: > On boot I see the following on an IBM T30 laptop: > > Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad0s1a > WARNING: / was not properly dismounted > ad0: FAILURE - READ_MUL status=59 > error=40 LBA=376639 I would stick that drive in another machine and try to get SMART status information from it. There is a port for smartmontools that can be very informative about the health of the drive. -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \'[ FreeBSD ]''''''''''\ <> green@FreeBSD.org \ The Power to Serve! \ Opinions expressed are my own. \,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,\ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 8 15:44:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from green.homeunix.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A2916A4CE; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:44:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from green.homeunix.org (green@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by green.homeunix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i58FiNsH046017; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:44:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.homeunix.org) Received: (from green@localhost) by green.homeunix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i58FiMbx046016; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:44:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:44:21 -0400 From: Brian Feldman To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20040608154421.GG23083@green.homeunix.org> References: <20040604145717.37fd31ea.liamfoy@sepulcrum.org> <40C0DC2C.5050903@DeepCore.dk> <20040605.123728.58652129.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040605.123728.58652129.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: liamfoy@sepulcrum.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: sos@DeepCore.dk Subject: Re: Orinoco Gold and Linksys AP X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:44:25 -0000 On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 12:37:28PM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > What firmware level do you have? Both wi and owi works for all my > lucent/wavelan/orinoco cards. :-( Try changing the WEP information many times. Eventually, the card just goes away and never returns to initialized state, and the interface is still up but it's dead to the world. -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \'[ FreeBSD ]''''''''''\ <> green@FreeBSD.org \ The Power to Serve! \ Opinions expressed are my own. \,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,\ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 8 17:21:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C18A16A4CE; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:21:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D292443D48; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:21:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i58HK86O077539; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:20:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)i58HK8WM077536; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:20:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:20:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Ali Niknam In-Reply-To: <00bd01c44cb5$ccf5f840$0400a8c0@redguy> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: John Baldwin Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.2.1: Mutex/Spinlock starvation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:21:08 -0000 On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Ali Niknam wrote: > > There isn't a timeout. Rather, the lock spins so long as the current > > owning thread is executing on another CPU. > > Interesting. Is there a way to 'lock' CPU's so that they always run on > 'another' CPU ? > > Unfortunately as we speak the server is down again :( This all makes me > wonder wether I should simply go back to 4.10. No one would blame you for backing off -CURRENT to -STABLE. On the other hand, having high workloads against -CURRENT is going to be critical to identifying weaknesses in -CURRENT so we can improve them. Unfortunately, it's something of a chicken-and-egg problem... > I decreased the maximum number of apache children to 1400 and the server > seems to be barely holding on: > last pid: 2483; load averages: 75.77, 28.63, 11.40 up 0+00:04:32 > 19:35:07 > 1438 processes:2 running, 294 sleeping, 1142 lock > CPU states: 6.2% user, 0.0% nice, 62.6% system, 7.5% interrupt, 23.8% > idle > Mem: 698M Active, 27M Inact, 209M Wired, 440K Cache, 96M Buf, 1068M Free > Swap: 512M Total, 512M Free > > Are there anymore quite stable things to do ? That is except for upping > to current, which I frankly feel is too dangerous... There are a number of known weaknesses in 5.2.1 that are resolved in -CURRENT, but the update would also involve substantial risk as there's some heavy moving going on in -CURRENT to improve network performance, etc. I haven't followed some of your system description in details, but it seems like the primary thing to do right now, assuming you are still able to keep 5.2.1 running on the box and are able to futz with the configuration some, is to identify the specific source of the problem you're experiencing. Clearly, too much work is going on in the kernel. The question is, what work. It's likely you're running into an expensive edge case, it's possible it's resolved in HEAD, and it could be that a low risk back port would resolve it. It's also possible you're running into an unresolved problem in HEAD. The best case scenario from my perspective would be that you could provide an equivilent workload against a test box where we could experiment with a number of debugging settings, as well as simply trying -CURRENT... It sounds like we've tried some of the easy plugs, such as switching schedulers, enabling adaptive mutexes, etc. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 8 17:36:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C6A16A4CE; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:36:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4FE43D39; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:36:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i58HZVJZ077839; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:35:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)i58HZVkd077836; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:35:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:35:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Ali Niknam In-Reply-To: <00bd01c44cb5$ccf5f840$0400a8c0@redguy> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: John Baldwin Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.2.1: Mutex/Spinlock starvation? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:36:30 -0000 On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Ali Niknam wrote: > > There isn't a timeout. Rather, the lock spins so long as the current > > owning thread is executing on another CPU. > > Interesting. Is there a way to 'lock' CPU's so that they always run on > 'another' CPU ? > > Unfortunately as we speak the server is down again :( This all makes me > wonder wether I should simply go back to 4.10. > I decreased the maximum number of apache children to 1400 and the server > seems to be barely holding on: > last pid: 2483; load averages: 75.77, 28.63, 11.40 up 0+00:04:32 > 19:35:07 > 1438 processes:2 running, 294 sleeping, 1142 lock > CPU states: 6.2% user, 0.0% nice, 62.6% system, 7.5% interrupt, 23.8% > idle > Mem: 698M Active, 27M Inact, 209M Wired, 440K Cache, 96M Buf, 1068M Free > Swap: 512M Total, 512M Free > > Are there anymore quite stable things to do ? That is except for upping > to current, which I frankly feel is too dangerous... Is there any way you can give us a "top -S" output snapshot of your full set of processes, if necessary omitting sensitive process names, etc? Also, can you give a snapshot of "vmstat -systat" once it's settled for a few iterations? Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 00:11:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970EB16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 00:11:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from grunt10.ihug.co.nz (grunt10.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF98443D5C for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 00:11:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mjl@luckie.org.nz) Received: from 203-118-173-80.adsl.ihug.co.nz (lycra.luckie.org.nz) [203.118.173.80] by grunt10.ihug.co.nz with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BXqh8-0002sf-00; Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:11:54 +1200 Received: from mjl (helo=localhost) by lycra.luckie.org.nz with local-esmtp (Exim 4.34; FreeBSD) id 1BXqh7-0006eH-Gb; Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:11:53 +1200 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:11:53 +1200 (NZST) From: Matthew Luckie To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040609115052.D24917@lycra.luckie.org.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:36:24 +0000 cc: mjl@luckie.org.nz Subject: use of kernel_sysctl X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:11:56 -0000 in sys/netsmb/smb_subr.c the following code fragment is used: [FreeBSD 4.10] int smb_checksmp(void) { int name[2]; int olen, ncpu, plen, error; name[0] = CTL_HW; name[1] = HW_NCPU; error = kernel_sysctl(curproc, name, 2, &ncpu, &olen, NULL, 0, &plen); if (error) return error; olen is passed without having its value set. on input, i'd expect it to specify sizeof(ncpu). looking in kernel_sysctl.c, *olen is used by kernel_sysctl. I had a quick grep through the source and saw a similar code fragment to this in nwfs. So it could be either that I've got it wrong and I'm not understanding something, or the code was used as a template in more than one place and was bug-for-bug copied. Feedback appreciated, cc'd Matthew From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 13:26:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604AD16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:26:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D7343D4C for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:26:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 42949530A; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:25:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 0B60E5309; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:25:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id A9B8E33C71; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:25:16 +0200 (CEST) To: Matthew Luckie References: <20040609115052.D24917@lycra.luckie.org.nz> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 15:25:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20040609115052.D24917@lycra.luckie.org.nz> (Matthew Luckie's message of "Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:11:53 +1200 (NZST)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.63 cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: use of kernel_sysctl X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:26:12 -0000 Matthew Luckie writes: > olen is passed without having its value set. on input, i'd expect it > to specify sizeof(ncpu). you are absolutely correct. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 15:04:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AAB16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:04:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from oniws.ca (oniws.ca [67.71.253.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448B943D4C for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:04:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Received: from xwave.com (chiron.internal.oniws.ca [192.168.0.126]) by oniws.ca (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i59F4FLL091540 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:04:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Message-ID: <40C726EA.9060704@xwave.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:04:10 -0400 From: Dwayne MacKinnon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040407 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org References: <20040609115052.D24917@lycra.luckie.org.nz> In-Reply-To: <20040609115052.D24917@lycra.luckie.org.nz> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.83.6.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Hyperthreading question X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 15:04:20 -0000 Hello, I'm in charge of upgrading a number of boxes from 4.8-RELEASE from 4.10-RELEASE. My problem is this section of notes from the 4.9-RELEASE errata: (28 Oct 2003) Very late in the release cycle, a change was made to the HyperThreading (HTT) support on Intel® processors. HTT support is now enabled by default on SMP-capable kernels; as a result, the HTT kernel option is unnecessary and has been removed. The extra logical CPUs are always started so that they can handle interrupts, but are prevented from executing user processes by default. To enable the logical CPUs, change the value of the machdep.hlt_logical_cpus sysctl(8) variable from 1 to 0. This value can also be set from the loader as a tunable of the same name. This behavior is now identical to FreeBSD 5.X. My boss is pretty adamant about not wanting the logical CPUs started at all, let alone having them available for user processes. So, I'm wondering if there's any straightforward way to disable them. Kernel hacking is not a problem... we use custom kernels in our work anyway. But I'd really appreciate a pointer in the right direction, as well as a general idea of how difficult my life will get if I attempt this. (Note that I attempted to disable HT support in the BIOS. It didn't have any effect. The logical CPUs still launched.) Thanks, DMK From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 16:21:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41DB116A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:21:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail1.speakeasy.net (mail1.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15D4343D1D for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:21:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 20628 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2004 16:21:56 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 9 Jun 2004 16:21:55 -0000 Received: from 10.50.41.233 (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i59GLqsl018976; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:21:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:22:43 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: <20040609115052.D24917@lycra.luckie.org.nz> <40C726EA.9060704@xwave.com> In-Reply-To: <40C726EA.9060704@xwave.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200406091222.43436.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx Subject: Re: Hyperthreading question X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:21:58 -0000 On Wednesday 09 June 2004 11:04 am, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > Hello, > > I'm in charge of upgrading a number of boxes from 4.8-RELEASE from > 4.10-RELEASE. My problem is this section of notes from the 4.9-RELEASE > errata: > > (28 Oct 2003) Very late in the release cycle, a change was made to the > HyperThreading (HTT) support on Intel=AE processors. HTT support is now > enabled by default on SMP-capable kernels; as a result, the HTT kernel > option is unnecessary and has been removed. The extra logical CPUs are > always started so that they can handle interrupts, but are prevented > from executing user processes by default. To enable the logical CPUs, > change the value of the machdep.hlt_logical_cpus sysctl(8) variable from > 1 to 0. This value can also be set from the loader as a tunable of the > same name. This behavior is now identical to FreeBSD 5.X. > > My boss is pretty adamant about not wanting the logical CPUs started at > all, let alone having them available for user processes. So, I'm > wondering if there's any straightforward way to disable them. Kernel > hacking is not a problem... we use custom kernels in our work anyway. > But I'd really appreciate a pointer in the right direction, as well as a > general idea of how difficult my life will get if I attempt this. > > (Note that I attempted to disable HT support in the BIOS. It didn't > have any effect. The logical CPUs still launched.) The CPUs are not used to schedule any user processes. Unfortunately, if yo= u=20 completely turn them off the box will lock up due to the way interrupts are= =20 fielded in FreeBSD 4.x. If you really don't want to use them, you can turn= =20 off the use of TPR (there's some #define in a header, LOPRIO something I=20 think), but it will send your performance into the toilet. =2D-=20 John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" =3D http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 16:33:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA0416A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:33:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx.hostarica.com (mx.hostarica.com [196.40.45.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810CB43D54 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:33:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jose@hostarica.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.hostarica.com [127.0.0.1]) by mx.hostarica.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75491F70B; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:37:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.0.69] (unknown [192.168.0.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.hostarica.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E00F703; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:37:10 -0600 (CST) From: Jose Hidalgo Herrera To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Organization: Corp. Hosta Rica Message-Id: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 10:33:34 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd 0.1 cc: jose@hostarica.com Subject: bugs with disk space X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jose@hostarica.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:33:36 -0000 There is something wrong here: srv0:~# uname -r 4.9-RELEASE-p4 srv0:~# df -hi / Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on /dev/ad0s1a 126M 125M -8.9M 108% 1364 14890 8% / srv0:~# du -shx / 36M / The operating system complains about free space, but I'm only using 36M, while the df says that I'm using 125M, the inodes are not the problem. Jose Hidalgo. Sr. IS Analyst/Sr. Unix® SysAdmin www.hostarica.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 17:43:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED91316A4EE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:43:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (smtpproxy2.mitre.org [192.80.55.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FDC43D2D for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:43:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i59HlVc09790 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:47:32 -0400 Received: from MAILHUB2 (mailhub2.mitre.org [129.83.221.18]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i59HlTH09707; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:47:29 -0400 Received: from mm112324-2k.mitre.org (128.29.3.25) by mailhub2.mitre.org with SMTP id 3140208; Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:41:22 -0400 Message-ID: <40C74BC8.8040906@mitre.org> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:41:28 -0400 From: Jason Andresen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jose@hostarica.com References: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> In-Reply-To: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bugs with disk space X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:43:06 -0000 Jose Hidalgo Herrera wrote: > There is something wrong here: > > srv0:~# uname -r > 4.9-RELEASE-p4 > > srv0:~# df -hi / > Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on > /dev/ad0s1a 126M 125M -8.9M 108% 1364 14890 8% / > > srv0:~# du -shx / > 36M / > > The operating system complains about free space, but I'm only using 36M, > while the df says that I'm using 125M, the inodes are not the problem. You probably have programs accessing files on / that have been unlinked. Once the process terminates (or closes the file descriptor) you will get your space back. If you deleted a large temp file or log file to free up space, try restarting the process that created the temp/log file. -- \ |_ _|__ __|_ \ __| Jason Andresen jandrese@mitre.org |\/ | | | / _| Network and Distributed Systems Engineer _| _|___| _| _|_\___| Office: 703-883-7755 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 17:45:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9ACC16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:45:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web50908.mail.yahoo.com (web50908.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.128]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 500FE43D53 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:45:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from b_oshea@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040609174430.22884.qmail@web50908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [156.153.254.42] by web50908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Jun 2004 10:44:30 PDT Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:44:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian O'Shea To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: jose@hostarica.com Subject: Re: bugs with disk space X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:45:12 -0000 Hello Jose, --- Jose Hidalgo Herrera wrote: > There is something wrong here: > > srv0:~# uname -r > 4.9-RELEASE-p4 > > srv0:~# df -hi / > Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on > /dev/ad0s1a 126M 125M -8.9M 108% 1364 14890 8% / > > srv0:~# du -shx / > 36M / Most likely some files were deleted that were open by some other process. The disk blocks will not be freed until all deleted files are closed by processes that have them open. Cheers, -brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 17:45:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEDEA16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:45:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx.hostarica.com (mx.hostarica.com [196.40.45.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7393743D49 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:45:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jose@hostarica.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.hostarica.com [127.0.0.1]) by mx.hostarica.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BFFBF755; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:48:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.0.69] (unknown [192.168.0.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.hostarica.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0224F74E; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:48:12 -0600 (CST) From: Jose Hidalgo Herrera To: Jason Andresen In-Reply-To: <40C74BC8.8040906@mitre.org> References: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> <40C74BC8.8040906@mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Corp. Hosta Rica Message-Id: <1086803076.86397.2.camel@jose.hostarica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:44:36 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd 0.1 cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: jose@hostarica.com Subject: Re: bugs with disk space X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jose@hostarica.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:45:20 -0000 Yes, I did: ~# lsof +aL1 and found that snmpd was the problem, I killed it and now du = df Sorry for the mail! On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 11:41, Jason Andresen wrote: > Jose Hidalgo Herrera wrote: > > There is something wrong here: > > > > srv0:~# uname -r > > 4.9-RELEASE-p4 > > > > srv0:~# df -hi / > > Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on > > /dev/ad0s1a 126M 125M -8.9M 108% 1364 14890 8% / > > > > srv0:~# du -shx / > > 36M / > > > > The operating system complains about free space, but I'm only using 36M, > > while the df says that I'm using 125M, the inodes are not the problem. > > You probably have programs accessing files on / that have been unlinked. > Once the process terminates (or closes the file descriptor) you will > get your space back. If you deleted a large temp file or log file to > free up space, try restarting the process that created the temp/log file. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 17:46:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E4716A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:46:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from multiplay.co.uk (www1.multiplay.co.uk [212.42.16.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD8543D45 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:46:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from killing@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from vader ([212.135.219.179]) by multiplay.co.uk (multiplay.co.uk [212.42.16.7]) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.0.R) with ESMTP id md50000276159.msg for ; Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:41:52 +0100 Message-ID: <109001c44e49$5310b700$b3db87d4@multiplay.co.uk> From: "Steven Hartland" To: , References: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:43:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Processed: multiplay.co.uk, Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:41:52 +0100 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 212.135.219.179 X-Return-Path: killing@multiplay.co.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: hackers@freebsd.org X-MDAV-Processed: multiplay.co.uk, Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:41:57 +0100 cc: jose@hostarica.com Subject: Re: bugs with disk space X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:46:59 -0000 Quite possible if u have deleted files which are still open. The space will only be freed when the last process closes the file. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose Hidalgo Herrera" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 5:33 PM Subject: bugs with disk space > There is something wrong here: > > srv0:~# uname -r > 4.9-RELEASE-p4 > > srv0:~# df -hi / > Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on > /dev/ad0s1a 126M 125M -8.9M 108% 1364 14890 8% / > > srv0:~# du -shx / > 36M / > > The operating system complains about free space, but I'm only using 36M, > while the df says that I'm using 125M, the inodes are not the problem. ================================================ This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to postmaster@multiplay.co.uk. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 18:15:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760CD16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:15:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EDC143D39 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:15:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i59HdqRH016771; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:39:52 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.10/8.12.3/Submit) id i59HdqhP016770; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:39:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:39:52 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Jose Hidalgo Herrera Message-ID: <20040609173952.GA15800@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bugs with disk space X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:15:47 -0000 --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 10:33:34AM -0600, Jose Hidalgo Herrera wrote: > There is something wrong here: >=20 > srv0:~# uname -r=20 > 4.9-RELEASE-p4 >=20 > srv0:~# df -hi / > Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on > /dev/ad0s1a 126M 125M -8.9M 108% 1364 14890 8% / >=20 > srv0:~# du -shx / > 36M / >=20 > The operating system complains about free space, but I'm only using 36M, > while the df says that I'm using 125M, the inodes are not the problem. You probalby have an open but deleted file. You should be able to find it with fstat. -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAx0tnXY6L6fI4GtQRArbaAKCB7cgJMyPv5mKe4yviu1UtArLkjwCdFtw1 ++ESqNkMqt8ooNmCYrrlToE= =+k+X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 22:33:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1278E16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:33:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [207.154.84.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ECE3E43D2F for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:33:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joseph@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 55855 invoked by uid 1248); 9 Jun 2004 22:33:36 -0000 Date: 9 Jun 2004 15:33:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:33:48 -0500 From: Joseph Dunn To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040609223348.GA505@magnesium.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: gringoloco1985@hotmail.com Subject: Dell SBLive! (almost) fixed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:33:37 -0000 --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hello hackers@, I just helped a friend install FreeBSD 5.2.1 on his Dell desktop machine, and we've been struggling to get his sound card working. His system has an SBLive! card, we were unable to use it with the stock snd_emu10k1 driver. However... pciconf -lv output: none3@pci2:2:0: class=0x040100 card=0x10031102 chip=0x00061102 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Creative Labs' device = 'emu10k1x Soundblaster Live! 5.1' class = multimedia subclass = audio relevant lines from /usr/src/sys/dev/sound/pci/emu10k1.c: #define EMU10K1_PCI_ID 0x00021102 #define EMU10K2_PCI_ID 0x00041102 As you can see, Dell has apparently changed the card's PCI ID, and thus the driver is not detecting it. I modified emu10k1.c to include the PCI ID (see attached diff). Now, the new snd_emu10k1 driver detects the card: pcm0: port 0xdf20-0xdf3f irq 17 at device 2.0 on pci2 pcm0: This *appears* to be working, but when I tried to play an mp3 with mpg123, I got this error, and no sound: pcm0:play:0: play interrupt timeout, channel dead Could anyone with experience in this area venture a guess as to the problem? Thanks, Joseph --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="emu10k1.c.diff" --- emu10k1.c 2004-06-09 11:26:37.000000000 -0500 +++ emu10k1.c.dell 2004-06-09 11:29:26.000000000 -0500 @@ -37,6 +37,7 @@ /* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */ #define EMU10K1_PCI_ID 0x00021102 +#define EMU10K1_DELL_PCI_ID 0x00061102 #define EMU10K2_PCI_ID 0x00041102 #define EMU_DEFAULT_BUFSZ 4096 #define EMU_CHANS 4 @@ -1441,6 +1442,10 @@ case EMU10K1_PCI_ID: s = "Creative EMU10K1"; break; + + case EMU10K1_DELL_PCI_ID: + s = "Creative EMU10K1 (Dell)"; + break; /* case EMU10K2_PCI_ID: s = "Creative EMU10K2"; @@ -1595,6 +1600,10 @@ s = "Creative EMU10K1 Joystick"; device_quiet(dev); break; + case 0x70041102: + s = "Creative EMU10K1 Joystick (Dell)"; + device_quiet(dev); + break; case 0x70031102: s = "Creative EMU10K2 Joystick"; device_quiet(dev); --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 11:26:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE2F16A4CE for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:26:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A60C43D41 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:26:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BYNhI-0005aM-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:26:16 +0200 Received: from [80.132.230.132] (helo=Gatekeeper.FreeBSD.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BYNhI-0004q9-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:26:16 +0200 Received: from StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org (StefanEsser [192.168.0.10]) by Gatekeeper.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB4EE5F23; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:26:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org (Postfix, from userid 200) id 5912D2304; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:26:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:26:11 +0200 From: Stefan =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=DFer?= To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040610112611.GA15304@StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org> Mail-Followup-To: Stefan =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=DFer?= , hackers@freebsd.org References: <20040606124734.GA2687@StefanEsser.FreeBSD.org> <20040607083051.GA13982@VARK.homeunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040607083051.GA13982@VARK.homeunix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:fa3fae9b6ca38d745862a668565919f6 Subject: Re: Semantics of "seteuid(uid)" vs. "setreuid(-1,uid)" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:26:20 -0000 On 2004-06-07 01:30 -0700, David Schultz wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004, Stefan Eer wrote: > > Any reason, that there is a difference in semantics between: > > > > seteuid(id) vs. setreuid(-1, id) ??? > > > > The tests performed on the arguments are different (assuming a > > fixed arg of -1 for ruid) in that seteuid does not support the > > case of (euid == cr_uid): > > [...] > > Is the difference between seteuid() and setreuid() deliberate ? > > The best rationale I can think of is that setreuid(x, geteuid()) > does something useful, whereas seteuid(geteuid()) is a no-op. I > think the seteuid() behavior you complain about exists for purely > historical reasons. POSIX does not require seteuid(geteuid()) to > succeed, but it implicitly allows it as an extension. Solaris and > Linux have this extension. The trouble with tweaking the > interface is that you always have to ask: what new security holes > could this open up in existing software? Thanks for the reply. I'm afraid that there might be security risks and/or broken programs in the system. Problem is, that the current behaviour breaks programs in ports, that expect seteuid to behave the same as setreuid(-1,uid) does on FreeBSD. But this can be fixed in the individual ports ... > Hao Chen points out that the failure of seteuid(geteuid()) in > FreeBSD is one of many tricky issues with using the set*uid() > interface portably. In my (biased) opinion, his Setuid > Demystified paper, is well worth reading if you want to untangle > this stuff in your mind: > > http://www.usenix.org/events/sec02/full_papers/chen/chen.pdf Thank you for the pointer: Interesting reading ! Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 16:58:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E89A16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:58:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [207.154.84.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA67843D49 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:58:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joseph@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 30900 invoked by uid 1248); 9 Jun 2004 16:58:48 -0000 Date: 9 Jun 2004 09:58:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:59:00 -0500 From: Joseph Dunn To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040609165900.GB355@magnesium.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:04:39 +0000 cc: gringoloco1985@hotmail.com Subject: Dell SBLive! (almost) fixed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:58:49 -0000 Hello hackers@, I just helped a friend install FreeBSD 5.2.1 on his Dell desktop machine, and we've been struggling to get his sound card working. His system has an SBLive! card, we were unable to use it with the stock snd_emu10k1 driver. However... pciconf -lv output: none3@pci2:2:0: class=0x040100 card=0x10031102 chip=0x00061102 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Creative Labs' device = 'emu10k1x Soundblaster Live! 5.1' class = multimedia subclass = audio relevant lines from /usr/src/sys/dev/sound/pci/emu10k1.c: #define EMU10K1_PCI_ID 0x00021102 #define EMU10K2_PCI_ID 0x00041102 As you can see, Dell has apparently changed the card's PCI ID, and thus the driver is not detecting it. I modified emu10k1.c to include the PCI ID (see attached diff). Now, the new snd_emu10k1 driver detects the card: pcm0: port 0xdf20-0xdf3f irq 17 at device 2.0 on pci2 pcm0: This *appears* to be working, but when I tried to play an mp3 with mpg123, I got this error, and no sound: pcm0:play:0: play interrupt timeout, channel dead Could anyone with experience in this area venture a guess as to the problem? Thanks, Joseph From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 17:02:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9366316A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:02:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [207.154.84.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6399F43D2F for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:02:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joseph@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 31915 invoked by uid 1248); 9 Jun 2004 17:02:18 -0000 Date: 9 Jun 2004 10:02:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:02:30 -0500 From: Joseph Dunn To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040609170230.GA568@magnesium.net> References: <20040609165900.GB355@magnesium.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040609165900.GB355@magnesium.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:04:39 +0000 cc: gringoloco1985@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Dell SBLive! (almost) fixed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:02:18 -0000 --BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Whoops, forgot the diff. It's attached. Joseph --BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="emu10k1.c.diff" --- emu10k1.c 2004-06-09 11:26:37.000000000 -0500 +++ emu10k1.c.dell 2004-06-09 11:29:26.000000000 -0500 @@ -37,6 +37,7 @@ /* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */ #define EMU10K1_PCI_ID 0x00021102 +#define EMU10K1_DELL_PCI_ID 0x00061102 #define EMU10K2_PCI_ID 0x00041102 #define EMU_DEFAULT_BUFSZ 4096 #define EMU_CHANS 4 @@ -1441,6 +1442,10 @@ case EMU10K1_PCI_ID: s = "Creative EMU10K1"; break; + + case EMU10K1_DELL_PCI_ID: + s = "Creative EMU10K1 (Dell)"; + break; /* case EMU10K2_PCI_ID: s = "Creative EMU10K2"; @@ -1595,6 +1600,10 @@ s = "Creative EMU10K1 Joystick"; device_quiet(dev); break; + case 0x70041102: + s = "Creative EMU10K1 Joystick (Dell)"; + device_quiet(dev); + break; case 0x70031102: s = "Creative EMU10K2 Joystick"; device_quiet(dev); --BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 18:11:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34CDC16A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from grummit.biaix.org (86.Red-213-97-212.pooles.rima-tde.net [213.97.212.86]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ECBF343D2F for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists-freebsd@biaix.org) Received: (qmail 510 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jun 2004 18:10:21 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:10:21 +0200 From: Joan Picanyol To: Jose Hidalgo Herrera Message-ID: <20040609181021.GA375@grummit.biaix.org> References: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1086798813.85952.7.camel@jose.hostarica.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:04:39 +0000 cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bugs with disk space X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:11:42 -0000 * Jose Hidalgo Herrera [20040609 19:35]: > srv0:~# df -hi / > Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on > /dev/ad0s1a 126M 125M -8.9M 108% 1364 14890 8% / > > srv0:~# du -shx / > 36M / > > The operating system complains about free space, but I'm only using 36M, > while the df says that I'm using 125M, the inodes are not the problem. FAQ 9.23 qvb -- pica From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 13:21:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5198A16A4CE for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:21:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (hak.cnd.mcgill.ca [132.216.11.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9854343D4C for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:21:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@hak.cnd.mcgill.ca) Received: from hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i5ADQfKJ025269; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:26:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mat@hak.cnd.mcgill.ca) Received: (from mat@localhost) by hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id i5ADQfs1025268; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:26:41 -0400 From: Mathew Kanner To: Joseph Dunn Message-ID: <20040610132641.GA21995@cnd.mcgill.ca> References: <20040609223348.GA505@magnesium.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040609223348.GA505@magnesium.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: I speak for myself, operating in Montreal, CANADA X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.62 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.62 (2004-01-11) on hak.cnd.mcgill.ca cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: gringoloco1985@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Dell SBLive! (almost) fixed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:21:56 -0000 On Jun 09, Joseph Dunn wrote: > Hello hackers@, > > I just helped a friend install FreeBSD 5.2.1 on his Dell desktop > machine, and we've been struggling to get his sound card working. His > system has an SBLive! card, we were unable to use it with the stock > snd_emu10k1 driver. However... > > pciconf -lv output: > none3@pci2:2:0: class=0x040100 card=0x10031102 chip=0x00061102 rev=0x00 > hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'Creative Labs' > device = 'emu10k1x Soundblaster Live! 5.1' > class = multimedia > subclass = audio > > relevant lines from /usr/src/sys/dev/sound/pci/emu10k1.c: > #define EMU10K1_PCI_ID 0x00021102 > #define EMU10K2_PCI_ID 0x00041102 > > As you can see, Dell has apparently changed the card's PCI ID, and thus > the driver is not detecting it. I modified emu10k1.c to include the PCI > ID (see attached diff). Now, the new snd_emu10k1 driver detects the > card: > pcm0: port 0xdf20-0xdf3f irq 17 at device 2.0 on pci2 > pcm0: > > This *appears* to be working, but when I tried to play an mp3 with > mpg123, I got this error, and no sound: > pcm0:play:0: play interrupt timeout, channel dead > > Could anyone with experience in this area venture a guess as to the Hi Joseph, I seem to recall a couple of open PRs on this particular issue. I think it's more complicated than just setting the PCIID of the device, and I've never actually heard of anyone hacking the emu10k1 to support the DELL OEM version of the card. I would venture a guess and say if ALSA can do, then we have a fighting chance, though I haven't looked ALSA to see what they do in a long time... Please keep me up to date on your progress. Thanks, --Mat -- Canada is a country whose main exports are hockey players and cold fronts. Our main imports are baseball players and acid rain. - Pierre Elliott Trudeau From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 15:06:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746C916A4CE for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:06:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.shock.ro (mail.shock.ro [212.93.151.164]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D56843D1F for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:06:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from aanton@reversedhell.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.ro [127.0.0.1]) by mail.shock.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A9C180B; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:59:49 +0300 (EEST) Received: from mail.shock.ro ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.shock.ro [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 66861-01; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:59:49 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [10.0.0.2] (unknown [82.77.151.42]) by mail.shock.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE9417FE; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:59:49 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <40C85B73.5080900@reversedhell.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:00:35 +0300 From: Anton Alin-Adrian User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040516) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Dunn References: <20040609165900.GB355@magnesium.net> <20040609170230.GA568@magnesium.net> In-Reply-To: <20040609170230.GA568@magnesium.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.84.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at shock.ro cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: gringoloco1985@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Dell SBLive! (almost) fixed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:06:02 -0000 Joseph Dunn wrote: > Whoops, forgot the diff. It's attached. > > Joseph > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --- emu10k1.c 2004-06-09 11:26:37.000000000 -0500 > +++ emu10k1.c.dell 2004-06-09 11:29:26.000000000 -0500 > @@ -37,6 +37,7 @@ > /* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */ > > #define EMU10K1_PCI_ID 0x00021102 > +#define EMU10K1_DELL_PCI_ID 0x00061102 > #define EMU10K2_PCI_ID 0x00041102 > #define EMU_DEFAULT_BUFSZ 4096 > #define EMU_CHANS 4 > @@ -1441,6 +1442,10 @@ > case EMU10K1_PCI_ID: > s = "Creative EMU10K1"; > break; > + > + case EMU10K1_DELL_PCI_ID: > + s = "Creative EMU10K1 (Dell)"; > + break; > /* > case EMU10K2_PCI_ID: > s = "Creative EMU10K2"; > @@ -1595,6 +1600,10 @@ > s = "Creative EMU10K1 Joystick"; > device_quiet(dev); > break; > + case 0x70041102: > + s = "Creative EMU10K1 Joystick (Dell)"; > + device_quiet(dev); > + break; > case 0x70031102: > s = "Creative EMU10K2 Joystick"; > device_quiet(dev); > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Try the drivers from www.opensound.com and see if it can get it working. If they can, then probably the card is also modified too. -- Alin-Adrian Anton Reversed Hell Networks GPG keyID 0x1E2FFF2E (2963 0C11 1AF1 96F6 0030 6EE9 D323 639D 1E2F FF2E) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 1E2FFF2E From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 02:53:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 324D616A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:53:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.teleri.net (teleri.net [216.193.194.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C25343D2D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:53:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wd@teleri.net) Received: by mail.teleri.net (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2834F11448; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:53:07 -0500 From: Chip Norkus To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040611025307.GG17367@teleri.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: indent bugfix / added features X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:53:22 -0000 --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi all, I've been working on a major project, and decided to use indent to normalize the code a bit. In doing so I discovered a few deficencies in the stock FreeBSD (5.2-CURRENT) indent and decided to fix them, I thought these might be fairly common wishes (and one of them is a bugfix) and have attached a patch which does the following: * Adds an option to control tab use in output code (-ut and -nut) (This is in the GNU indent) * Adds an option to control brace placement after function declaration (-fbs and -nfbs). What this does, specifically, is allow you to have indent produce 'func(args..) {' instead of 'func(args..)\n{'. The old behavior is the default. * Fixes the indent bug when aligning variable names with an indentation level that is not a multiple of 8. This works for both the 'tab use' and 'no tab use' varieties of code output. I don't know if anyone would be interested in committing the bugfix (I believe it is correct) or added features, but I hope someone else finds this useful. -chip -- personal: chip norkus; renaissance hacker; wd@teleri.net work: systems engineer @ lunarpages, inc.; chip@lunarpages.com info: finger wd@teleri.net for plan or keys; http://telekinesis.org --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="indent.patch" diff -u /usr/src/usr.bin/indent/args.c ./args.c --- /usr/src/usr.bin/indent/args.c Tue Mar 23 13:33:16 2004 +++ ./args.c Thu Jun 10 19:01:10 2004 @@ -111,6 +111,7 @@ {"eei", PRO_BOOL, false, ON, &extra_expression_indent}, {"ei", PRO_BOOL, true, ON, &ps.else_if}, {"fbc", PRO_FONT, 0, 0, (int *) &blkcomf}, + {"fbs", PRO_BOOL, true, ON, &function_brace_split}, {"fbx", PRO_FONT, 0, 0, (int *) &boxcomf}, {"fb", PRO_FONT, 0, 0, (int *) &bodyf}, {"fc1", PRO_BOOL, true, ON, &format_col1_comments}, @@ -136,6 +137,7 @@ {"ndj", PRO_BOOL, false, OFF, &ps.ljust_decl}, {"neei", PRO_BOOL, false, OFF, &extra_expression_indent}, {"nei", PRO_BOOL, true, OFF, &ps.else_if}, + {"nfbs", PRO_BOOL, true, OFF, &function_brace_split}, {"nfc1", PRO_BOOL, true, OFF, &format_col1_comments}, {"nfcb", PRO_BOOL, true, OFF, &format_block_comments}, {"nip", PRO_BOOL, true, OFF, &ps.indent_parameters}, @@ -146,6 +148,7 @@ {"nps", PRO_BOOL, false, OFF, &pointer_as_binop}, {"nsc", PRO_BOOL, true, OFF, &star_comment_cont}, {"nsob", PRO_BOOL, false, OFF, &swallow_optional_blanklines}, + {"nut", PRO_BOOL, true, OFF, &use_tabs}, {"nv", PRO_BOOL, false, OFF, &verbose}, {"pcs", PRO_BOOL, false, ON, &proc_calls_space}, {"psl", PRO_BOOL, true, ON, &procnames_start_line}, @@ -154,6 +157,7 @@ {"sob", PRO_BOOL, false, ON, &swallow_optional_blanklines}, {"st", PRO_SPECIAL, 0, STDIN, 0}, {"troff", PRO_BOOL, false, ON, &troff}, + {"ut", PRO_BOOL, true, ON, &use_tabs}, {"v", PRO_BOOL, false, ON, &verbose}, /* whew! */ {0, 0, 0, 0, 0} diff -u /usr/src/usr.bin/indent/indent.c ./indent.c --- /usr/src/usr.bin/indent/indent.c Tue Feb 17 02:33:36 2004 +++ ./indent.c Thu Jun 10 21:45:58 2004 @@ -91,7 +91,7 @@ int squest; /* when this is positive, we have seen a ? * without the matching : in a ?: * construct */ - int use_tabs; /* true if using tabs to indent to var name */ + int loc_use_tabs; /* true if using tabs to indent to var name */ const char *t_ptr; /* used for copying tokens */ int type_code; /* the type of token, returned by lexi */ @@ -765,8 +765,13 @@ } else if (ps.in_parameter_declaration && !ps.in_or_st) { ps.i_l_follow = 0; - dump_line(); - ps.want_blank = false; + if (function_brace_split) { + /* dump the line prior to the brace ... */ + dump_line(); + ps.want_blank = false; + } else + /* add a space between the decl and brace */ + ps.want_blank = true; } } if (ps.in_parameter_declaration) @@ -914,11 +919,11 @@ if (ps.ind_level == 0 || ps.dec_nest > 0) { /* global variable or struct member in local variable */ dec_ind = ps.decl_indent > 0 ? ps.decl_indent : i; - use_tabs = ps.decl_indent > 0; + loc_use_tabs = (use_tabs ? ps.decl_indent > 0 : 0); } else { /* local variable */ dec_ind = ps.local_decl_indent > 0 ? ps.local_decl_indent : i; - use_tabs = ps.local_decl_indent > 0; + loc_use_tabs = (use_tabs ? ps.local_decl_indent > 0 : 0); } goto copy_id; @@ -936,17 +941,31 @@ e_code += strlen(e_code); } else { int pos, startpos; + int loc_dec_ind; + /* In order to get the tab math right for + * indentations that are not multiples of 8 we + * need to modify both startpos and dec_ind + * (loc_dec_ind) here by eight minus the + * remainder of the current starting column + * divided by eight. This seems to be a + * properly working fix. */ startpos = e_code - s_code; + loc_dec_ind = dec_ind; + if ((ps.ind_level * ps.ind_size) % 8 != 0) { + startpos += (ps.ind_level * ps.ind_size) % 8; + loc_dec_ind += (ps.ind_level * ps.ind_size) % 8; + } + pos = startpos; - if (use_tabs) { - while ((pos & ~7) + 8 <= dec_ind) { + if (loc_use_tabs) { + while ((pos & ~7) + 8 <= loc_dec_ind) { CHECK_SIZE_CODE; *e_code++ = '\t'; pos = (pos & ~7) + 8; } } - while (pos < dec_ind) { + while (pos < loc_dec_ind) { CHECK_SIZE_CODE; *e_code++ = ' '; pos++; diff -u /usr/src/usr.bin/indent/indent_globs.h ./indent_globs.h --- /usr/src/usr.bin/indent/indent_globs.h Tue Feb 17 02:33:36 2004 +++ ./indent_globs.h Thu Jun 10 21:43:42 2004 @@ -199,6 +199,10 @@ * indented an extra tab stop so that * they don't conflict with the code * that follows */ +int function_brace_split; /* split function declaration and + * brace onto separate lines? */ +int use_tabs; /* Set true to use tabs for spacing, + * false uses all spaces. */ /* -troff font state information */ diff -u /usr/src/usr.bin/indent/io.c ./io.c --- /usr/src/usr.bin/indent/io.c Tue Feb 17 02:33:36 2004 +++ ./io.c Thu Jun 10 21:44:28 2004 @@ -472,11 +472,13 @@ if (current >= target) return (current); /* line is already long enough */ curr = current; - while ((tcur = ((curr - 1) & tabmask) + tabsize + 1) <= target) { - putc('\t', output); - curr = tcur; - } - while (curr++ < target) + if (use_tabs) { + while ((tcur = ((curr - 1) & tabmask) + tabsize + 1) <= target) { + putc('\t', output); + curr = tcur; + } + } + while (curr++ < target) putc(' ', output); /* pad with final blanks */ } return (target); --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 09:04:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39E116A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:04:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cs1.cs.huji.ac.il (cs1.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A676343D1D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:04:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32] ident=danny) by cs1.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1BYhxt-000Mje-Fd for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:04:45 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:04:45 +0300 From: Danny Braniss Message-Id: <20040611090459.A676343D1D@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Subject: keyboard for a blade X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:05:00 -0000 hi, I have this IBM/Intel BladeCenter, and i can't get the console keyboard to work. I tried kbdcontrol -k kbd1 but failed, neither kbdcontrol -k kbd2 worked. Somehow the keyboard (USB/PS2) is rerouted, but gets lost to freebsd, btw, im running current, since on stable the bge doesn't work. The dmesg: ... ohci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb0: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb0: SMM does not respond, resetting usb0: on ohci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: (0x1166) OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 4 ports with 4 removable, self powered uhub1: Cypress Semiconductor 4 Port Hub, class 9/0, rev 1.10/0.01, addr 2 uhub1: 4 ports with 4 removable, bus powered ukbd0: IBM PPC I/F, rev 1.10/0.01, addr 3, iclass 3/1 kbd1 at ukbd0 ums0: IBM PPC I/F, rev 1.10/0.01, addr 3, iclass 3/0 ums0: X report 0x0002 not supported device_attach: ums0 attach returned 6 ukbd1: IBM HIDK/M, rev 1.10/0.01, addr 4, iclass 3/1 kbd2 at ukbd1 ums0: IBM HIDK/M, rev 1.10/0.01, addr 4, iclass 3/1 ums0: 3 buttons and Z dir. Any help? Thanks, danny From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 09:29:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0BE616A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:29:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from faceman.servitor.co.uk (faceman.servitor.co.uk [80.71.15.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD43743D54 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:29:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wiggy@servitor.co.uk) Received: from wiggy by faceman.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.30) id 1BYiLR-0005Pj-6V; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:29:05 +0100 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:29:05 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Danny Braniss Message-ID: <20040611092905.GK70693@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20040611090459.A676343D1D@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040611090459.A676343D1D@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: keyboard for a blade X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:29:16 -0000 On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 12:04:45PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > Somehow the keyboard (USB/PS2) is rerouted, but gets lost to freebsd, > btw, im running current, since on stable the bge doesn't work. If there's no PS/2 keyboard attached at boot time, FBSD will unload the atkbd driver to a give a change to the driver for a USB keyboard and (rather infuriatingly for me) won't allow re-connection of a PS/2 keyboard until you either kbdcontrol it (how, if you haven't got a working keyboard?) or power cycle the box. Similar problems occur if you also don't have a USB keyboard attached. Your blade centre is probably only "connecting" a keyboard when you need it, so you should treat it like a headless server. In your kernel config change this line: device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 flags 0x1 For this one: device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 This means that the PS/2 atkbd driver will be loaded even if a keyboard is not actually connected at boot time. If that doesn't fix it in your blade centre, then it's because it's providing a "USB keyboard" to the blade not a PS/2 keyboard, and I don't know how to fix that one because I've never had the problem. Hope that helps somehow. -- Paul Robinson http://www.iconoplex.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 09:56:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4800016A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:56:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cs1.cs.huji.ac.il (cs1.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A5143D2D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:56:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32] ident=danny) by cs1.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1BYilb-000Ngb-Ut; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:56:07 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Paul Robinson In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:29:05 +0100 . Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:56:07 +0300 From: Danny Braniss Message-Id: <20040611095634.09A5143D2D@mx1.FreeBSD.org> cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: keyboard for a blade X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:56:34 -0000 > On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 12:04:45PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > > Somehow the keyboard (USB/PS2) is rerouted, but gets lost to freebsd, > > btw, im running current, since on stable the bge doesn't work. > > If there's no PS/2 keyboard attached at boot time, FBSD will unload the > atkbd driver to a give a change to the driver for a USB keyboard and (rather > infuriatingly for me) won't allow re-connection of a PS/2 keyboard until you > either kbdcontrol it (how, if you haven't got a working keyboard?) or power > cycle the box. Similar problems occur if you also don't have a USB keyboard > attached. > > Your blade centre is probably only "connecting" a keyboard when you need it, > so you should treat it like a headless server. In your kernel config change > this line: > > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 flags 0x1 > > For this one: > > device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 > > This means that the PS/2 atkbd driver will be loaded even if a keyboard is > not actually connected at boot time. > > If that doesn't fix it in your blade centre, then it's because it's > providing a "USB keyboard" to the blade not a PS/2 keyboard, and I don't > know how to fix that one because I've never had the problem. > > Hope that helps somehow. Certainly! im compiling a kernel now, will test asap. On another box where i have similar problems, i added some lines to etc/rc.d/syscons: ... syscons_start() { echo -n 'Configuring syscons:' # # keybord USB/PS2 # case ${keyboard} in [Nn][Oo] | '') ;; *) echo -n ' keybord'; kbdcontrol -k ${keyboard} < ${kbddev} ;; esac and now i have in my rc.conf: keyboard=kbd1 I don't know if this is the correct way to do this - the keyboard magic is beyond me :-) danny From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 14:07:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F2416A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:07:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bremen.shuttle.de (bremen.shuttle.de [194.95.249.251]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40EAE43D5A for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:07:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from schweikh@schweikhardt.net) Received: by bremen.shuttle.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id DCC4D3BB8A; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:07:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hal9000.schweikhardt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i5BE7eIr003714; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:07:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from schweikh@hal9000.schweikhardt.net) Received: (from schweikh@localhost)i5BE7eFF003713; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:07:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from schweikh) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:07:40 +0200 From: Jens Schweikhardt To: Chip Norkus Message-ID: <20040611140740.GA3355@schweikhardt.net> References: <20040611025307.GG17367@teleri.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040611025307.GG17367@teleri.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: indent bugfix / added features X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:07:34 -0000 On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 09:53:07PM -0500, Chip Norkus wrote: # # Hi all, # # I've been working on a major project, and decided to use indent to # normalize the code a bit. In doing so I discovered a few deficencies in # the stock FreeBSD (5.2-CURRENT) indent and decided to fix them, I # thought these might be fairly common wishes (and one of them is a # bugfix) and have attached a patch which does the following: # * Adds an option to control tab use in output code (-ut and -nut) # (This is in the GNU indent) # * Adds an option to control brace placement after function declaration # (-fbs and -nfbs). What this does, specifically, is allow you to have # indent produce 'func(args..) {' instead of 'func(args..)\n{'. The old # behavior is the default. # * Fixes the indent bug when aligning variable names with an indentation # level that is not a multiple of 8. This works for both the 'tab use' # and 'no tab use' varieties of code output. # # I don't know if anyone would be interested in committing the bugfix (I # believe it is correct) or added features, but I hope someone else finds # this useful. # # -chip I'm willing to commit this if you could demonstrate that it will not produce different output in the default case than it does now. Say, run the old an new versions against the FreeBSD src tree and make a diff which should vanish apart from the bug-fixing effects. If you want to make yourself known as a quality software engineer, do the same for various sets of indent options :-) Regards, Jens -- Jens Schweikhardt http://www.schweikhardt.net/ SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 14:26:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7711B16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:26:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 653EC43D2D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:26:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i5BEQFgd097584; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3/Submit) id i5BEQF4c097583; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:26:15 -0700 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Jens Schweikhardt Message-ID: <20040611072615.A96657@xorpc.icir.org> References: <20040611025307.GG17367@teleri.net> <20040611140740.GA3355@schweikhardt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040611140740.GA3355@schweikhardt.net>; from schweikh@schweikhardt.net on Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 04:07:40PM +0200 cc: Chip Norkus cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: indent bugfix / added features X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:26:16 -0000 On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 04:07:40PM +0200, Jens Schweikhardt wrote: > On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 09:53:07PM -0500, Chip Norkus wrote: ... > # normalize the code a bit. In doing so I discovered a few deficencies in > # the stock FreeBSD (5.2-CURRENT) indent and decided to fix them, I > # thought these might be fairly common wishes (and one of them is a > # bugfix) and have attached a patch which does the following: ... > # I don't know if anyone would be interested in committing the bugfix (I > # believe it is correct) or added features, but I hope someone else finds > # this useful. ... > I'm willing to commit this if you could demonstrate that it will not > produce different output in the default case than it does now. Say, > run the old an new versions against the FreeBSD src tree and make a diff > which should vanish apart from the bug-fixing effects. If you want to > make yourself known as a quality software engineer, do the same for > various sets of indent options :-) ?? this sounds like an absurd request, please... First, for a small patch like this you are much better off looking at the source code diffs rather than checking the output in a necessarily small set of test cases. Second, either you trust the author (in which case his statement "I believe is correct" is all you need), or you don't, in which case you'd have to check the patch yourself in whatever way you believe suitable. Either way, I don't see how the additional tests you are asking for would change your behaviour. cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 15:20:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E11216A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:20:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bremen.shuttle.de (bremen.shuttle.de [194.95.249.251]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A5A43D41 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:20:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from schweikh@schweikhardt.net) Received: by bremen.shuttle.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id BF1D83BBA7; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:20:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hal9000.schweikhardt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i5BFKJXo005346; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:20:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from schweikh@hal9000.schweikhardt.net) Received: (from schweikh@localhost)i5BFKJqc005345; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:20:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from schweikh) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:20:19 +0200 From: Jens Schweikhardt To: Luigi Rizzo Message-ID: <20040611152019.GA5028@schweikhardt.net> References: <20040611025307.GG17367@teleri.net> <20040611140740.GA3355@schweikhardt.net> <20040611072615.A96657@xorpc.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040611072615.A96657@xorpc.icir.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: Chip Norkus cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: indent bugfix / added features X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:20:34 -0000 On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 07:26:15AM -0700, Luigi Rizzo wrote: # On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 04:07:40PM +0200, Jens Schweikhardt wrote: # > On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 09:53:07PM -0500, Chip Norkus wrote: # ... # > # normalize the code a bit. In doing so I discovered a few deficencies in # > # the stock FreeBSD (5.2-CURRENT) indent and decided to fix them, I # > # thought these might be fairly common wishes (and one of them is a # > # bugfix) and have attached a patch which does the following: # ... # > # I don't know if anyone would be interested in committing the bugfix (I # > # believe it is correct) or added features, but I hope someone else finds # > # this useful. # ... # > I'm willing to commit this if you could demonstrate that it will not # > produce different output in the default case than it does now. Say, # > run the old an new versions against the FreeBSD src tree and make a diff # > which should vanish apart from the bug-fixing effects. If you want to # > make yourself known as a quality software engineer, do the same for # > various sets of indent options :-) # # ?? this sounds like an absurd request, please... Sigh. A request for a little bit of QA and an emoticon as well and I'm criticised. I remember when I was not yet a committer that the better I could demonstrate that the code has no ill-effect the more chances some committer would bring it in the tree. # First, for a small patch like this you are much better off looking # at the source code diffs rather than checking the output in a # necessarily small set of test cases. I've looked at too many "innocous" patches that performed unexpectedly when run, to not let myself get away with this. Of course this may be because I'm not a good C programmer. # Second, either you trust the author (in which case his statement # "I believe is correct" is all you need), or you don't, in which # case you'd have to check the patch yourself in whatever way you # believe suitable. Either way, I don't see how the additional # tests you are asking for would change your behaviour. They'd improve my confidence of not having to backout someone else's patch. I was making my proposal on the premise that doing this test would not be very difficult or time consuming, and that the author, who apparently used indent a lot, would know better where potential pitfalls are (like option combos). If I can get any other committer's opinion saying "go ahead, commit", that's fine and I'll get to it ASAP. No hard feelings, Luigi :-) Regards, Jens -- Jens Schweikhardt http://www.schweikhardt.net/ SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 15:39:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3A916A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:39:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4081143D49 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:39:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i5BFdRgd004410; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:39:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3/Submit) id i5BFdR5d004409; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:39:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:39:27 -0700 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Jens Schweikhardt Message-ID: <20040611083927.B2580@xorpc.icir.org> References: <20040611025307.GG17367@teleri.net> <20040611140740.GA3355@schweikhardt.net> <20040611072615.A96657@xorpc.icir.org> <20040611152019.GA5028@schweikhardt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040611152019.GA5028@schweikhardt.net>; from schweikh@schweikhardt.net on Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 05:20:19PM +0200 cc: Chip Norkus cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: indent bugfix / added features X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:39:54 -0000 On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 05:20:19PM +0200, Jens Schweikhardt wrote: ... > Sigh. A request for a little bit of QA and an emoticon as well and > I'm criticised. I remember when I was not yet a committer that the > better I could demonstrate that the code has no ill-effect the more > chances some committer would bring it in the tree. yeah but that's not a reason to give the same 'treatment' to other people. In the end, if you don't feel like taking the risk, you don't commit the patch and nobody will blame you. > I've looked at too many "innocous" patches that performed unexpectedly > when run, to not let myself get away with this. Of course this may be i am not trying to discuss general principles, but only this specific case. This is a very small patch and you can easily check it while you type/paste it in (if nothing else just for curiosity on what was the problem and how was it fixed). In the end, if you don't feel like taking the risk, you don't commit the patch; nobody will blame you. > No hard feelings, Luigi :-) nor on my side! I was just trying to make a point that we should not try to scare or annoy people who are so kind to contribute patches just because we don't have time to scrutinize them (which in the end is our responsibility, not theirs). I wouldn't have said a word if you had some actual comments/criticism on the contributed code. Even if they were only style issues (which we shouldn't even bother to criticise in these cases, as they can be trivially fixed at commit time). But asking for "more input or i won't even look at your code" (at least, that was the sense one could perceive) was a bit too much... cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 17:10:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E194B16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:10:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.teleri.net (teleri.net [216.193.194.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1D343D5F for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:10:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wd@teleri.net) Received: by mail.teleri.net (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2F5E211451; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:10:29 -0500 From: Chip Norkus To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040611171029.GH17367@teleri.net> References: <20040611025307.GG17367@teleri.net> <20040611140740.GA3355@schweikhardt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040611140740.GA3355@schweikhardt.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: indent bugfix / added features X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:10:41 -0000 On Fri Jun 11, 2004; 04:07PM +0200 Jens Schweikhardt propagated the following: > > I'm willing to commit this if you could demonstrate that it will not > produce different output in the default case than it does now. Say, > run the old an new versions against the FreeBSD src tree and make a diff > which should vanish apart from the bug-fixing effects. If you want to > make yourself known as a quality software engineer, do the same for > various sets of indent options :-) > Hi, Thanks! I'll give it a run against a significant stack of code today and let you know. If anyone else is willing to test it out as well that would be extremely helpful. > Regards, > > Jens > -- > Jens Schweikhardt http://www.schweikhardt.net/ > SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) -chip -- personal: chip norkus; renaissance hacker; wd@teleri.net work: systems engineer @ lunarpages, inc.; chip@lunarpages.com info: finger wd@teleri.net for plan or keys; http://telekinesis.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 16:46:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA5316A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:46:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E6FE43D54 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:46:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sebastian.ssmoller@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 5457 invoked by uid 65534); 12 Jun 2004 16:46:19 -0000 Received: from pD9E82E89.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO tyrael.linnet) (217.232.46.137) by mail.gmx.net (mp011) with SMTP; 12 Jun 2004 18:46:19 +0200 X-Authenticated: #15005775 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:46:17 +0200 From: sebastian ssmoller To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040612184617.65b746f4.sebastian.ssmoller@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.9-gtk2-20040229 (GTK+ 2.4.1; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: lpt module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:46:30 -0000 hi hackers, i have some trouble to setup my (stupid GDI) printer on freebsd. when i try to use lpt0 (lptest, lptcontrol, cat) i always get "device busy". so i decided to play around a bit with the lpt module. first thing i noticed when compiled lpt as module is: i cannot unload it (kldunload says: device not configured). somewhere in the net i read that this is an expected behaviour (as it is for usb afaik) because lpt module does not release memory properly (?) but of course i do not want to reboot my system each time i played a bit with the lpt code. so i am looking for a (temporary) "hack" to allow lpt to kldunload. I guess a good starting point would be the modevent handler for the lpt module, unfortunately i cannot find it :( so could someone point me to the right direction, please ? thanx! regards, seb ps: i am running current -- "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." --- Antoine de St. Exupery, Wind, Sand, and Stars, 1939 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 19:37:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158E516A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:37:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1CE43D48 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:37:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from eaja@erols.com) X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: qkTgJtUnPhpCFTQUhEYqABuhfeN4cGqzRZODxxVNhHE= Received: from 165.sub-166-141-30.myvzw.com ([166.141.30.165] helo=localhost) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #7) id 1BZEJ6-0002b9-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 15:36:52 -0400 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 15:36:33 -0400 From: Eric Jacobs To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040612153633.315938cf.eaja@erols.com> In-Reply-To: <20040612184617.65b746f4.sebastian.ssmoller@gmx.net> References: <20040612184617.65b746f4.sebastian.ssmoller@gmx.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: lpt module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:37:23 -0000 On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:46:17 +0200 sebastian ssmoller wrote: > > so i decided to play around a bit with the lpt module. first thing i > noticed when compiled lpt as module is: i cannot unload it (kldunload > says: device not configured). somewhere in the net i read that this is > an expected behaviour (as it is for usb afaik) because lpt module does > not release memory properly (?) The lpt driver needs a device_detach method in sys/ppbus/lpt.c. Might want to look at sio_detach in sio for hints. It will need to ensure that the device is closed, release bus resources, and destroy its cdevs, and possibly some other non-obvious things (haven't looked closely)