From owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 03:55:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCCA16A481; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:55:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mrout3.yahoo.com (mrout3.yahoo.com [216.145.54.173]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB4D43D53; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:55:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy7.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.98]) by mrout3.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4/y.out) with ESMTP id k5J3pQTx077812; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:51:24 +0900 Message-ID: From: gnn@freebsd.org To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.0.50 (i386-apple-darwin8.5.1) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:55:17 -0000 Hi, To those of you who already get too much mail, which means all of us, I apologize for this. With the new push for more embedded systems using FreeBSD a few of us thought it would be a good idea to create a new list that more clearly indicated "embedded" uses. Now, of course all the people who've read and posted on freebsd-small for years may think, "Why bother creating a new list?" The reason is as simple as it may be annoying, "Marketing." When people search for FreeBSD on Embedded platforms they are unlikely to type "small" into their search. It's very important for us to get our information out there and having an embedded mailing list called "embedded" is an important part of that. So, to all of you already on freebsd-small I apologize and ask anyone who is interested in the Embedded work to subscribe to freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org. I'll be moving the pointers on the embeddedfreebsd.org site to point to the archives of both small and embedded but will only point to subscriptions for embedded. Thanks, and again, apologies, George From owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 06:49:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC98816A474 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:49:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmrdalj@dkts.co.yu) Received: from dkts.co.yu (telis.dkts.co.yu [195.178.60.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA17143D46 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:49:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jmrdalj@dkts.co.yu) Received: from betelgeuse.sraz.dkts.co.yu (betelgeuse.sraz.dkts.co.yu [192.168.200.33]) by dkts.co.yu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id k5J6nYu00652 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:49:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: by betelgeuse.sraz.dkts.co.yu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A83FE3732; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:53:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:53:28 +0200 From: Jovica Mrdalj To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060619065328.GA6365@betelgeuse.sraz.dkts.co.yu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Subject: subscription X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:49:14 -0000 -- Jovica Mrdalj e-mail: jmrdalj@dkts.co.yu Pupin TELECOM DKTS tel. +381.11.3070.592 11080 Beograd, SCG fax. +381.11.196.979 Batajnicki put 23 From owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 18:10:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9643B16A47B; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:10:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FCC543D55; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:10:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5JIAimd025530; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id k5JIAi0v025527; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: gnn@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060619115827.A25435@wonkity.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org, freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:10:47 -0000 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, gnn@freebsd.org wrote: > To those of you who already get too much mail, which means all of us, > I apologize for this. With the new push for more embedded systems > using FreeBSD a few of us thought it would be a good idea to create a > new list that more clearly indicated "embedded" uses. Now, of course > all the people who've read and posted on freebsd-small for years may > think, "Why bother creating a new list?" The reason is as simple as > it may be annoying, "Marketing." When people search for FreeBSD on > Embedded platforms they are unlikely to type "small" into their > search. It's very important for us to get our information out there > and having an embedded mailing list called "embedded" is an important > part of that. So, to all of you already on freebsd-small I apologize > and ask anyone who is interested in the Embedded work to subscribe to > freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org. So will freebsd-small go away? Both lists share the description of "Dedicated and embedded systems based on FreeBSD". What list would be appropriate for discussion about using FreeBSD not as an embedded system, but as a host environment for embedded microcontrollers like PIC/AVR/ARM? Is there crossover between the two groups? -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA From owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 05:20:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747FB16A47B for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:20:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mrout1-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com (mrout1-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com [216.109.112.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A85643D46 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:20:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy8.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.13]) by mrout1-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4/y.out) with ESMTP id k5K5KfWZ045749; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:13:21 +0900 Message-ID: From: gnn@freebsd.org To: Warren Block In-Reply-To: <20060619115827.A25435@wonkity.com> References: <20060619115827.A25435@wonkity.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.0.50 (i386-apple-darwin8.5.1) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:20:59 -0000 At Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote: > So will freebsd-small go away? Both lists share the description of > "Dedicated and embedded systems based on FreeBSD". > When I initially talked to people about this the thought was that the list would be moved, but that was considered too intrusive, and the idea was dropped. For my own part I am now using exclusively embedded, and will drop my small membership in a week or so. If people "vote with their feet" and the traffic on small drops to 0 then we can make some choices about it, but that is not important right now. > What list would be appropriate for discussion about using FreeBSD > not as an embedded system, but as a host environment for embedded > microcontrollers like PIC/AVR/ARM? Is there crossover between the > two groups? I would say that those subjects are fit for this list. The idea is a name change, and not a subject change. This was the least intrusive way to make a name change. Best, George From owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 21 15:01:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FA516A47C; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:01:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27A143D46; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:01:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C77846BF6; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:01:02 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: gnn@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060621155727.E8526@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060619115827.A25435@wonkity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:01:04 -0000 On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, gnn@freebsd.org wrote: > At Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT), > Warren Block wrote: >> So will freebsd-small go away? Both lists share the description of >> "Dedicated and embedded systems based on FreeBSD". > > When I initially talked to people about this the thought was that the list > would be moved, but that was considered too intrusive, and the idea was > dropped. > > For my own part I am now using exclusively embedded, and will drop my small > membership in a week or so. If people "vote with their feet" and the > traffic on small drops to 0 then we can make some choices about it, but that > is not important right now. I, for one, would still prefer to see the existing subscriptions move over :-). I often subscribe to lists and then poll the mailbox every now and then to see if there are topics of interest. Little annoys me more than coming back from a vacation and discovering that I have, in effect, been dropped from the mailing list becaue the subscriber base hasn't been moved to a replacement list. This happened to me recently on the Linux security modules mailing list -- they also offer no archive of the messages since the move, so I can't easily find out what they talked about over the last two months :-(. If we believe embedded@ is really replacing small@, my feeling is we should add all current subscribers to the new list, alias the old list to the new list, and remove subscribers + disable subscriptions to the old list. The old small@ archives will remain around, and pointed to for the purposes of access to old archives, but I think having two lists is confusing. Or, at least, I'm confused. :-) Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 21 17:00:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D3016A5CA; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:00:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE1BA43D48; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:00:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id B14B22FF0; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:00:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:00:45 -0500 To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20060621170045.GB15163@soaustin.net> References: <20060619115827.A25435@wonkity.com> <20060621155727.E8526@fledge.watson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060621155727.E8526@fledge.watson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: gnn@freebsd.org, freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:00:46 -0000 well, the question is, do discussions about picobsd, nanobsd, etc., which may not be intended for what I would consider "embedded systems", move over as well? If so, IMHO there ought to be one list. I can see arguments for either choice. mcl From owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 21 17:18:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD2116A494; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:18:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640FB43D49; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:18:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18CE246BEA; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:18:21 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Mark Linimon In-Reply-To: <20060621170045.GB15163@soaustin.net> Message-ID: <20060621181745.S35462@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060619115827.A25435@wonkity.com> <20060621155727.E8526@fledge.watson.org> <20060621170045.GB15163@soaustin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: gnn@freebsd.org, freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:18:29 -0000 On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Mark Linimon wrote: > well, the question is, do discussions about picobsd, nanobsd, etc., which > may not be intended for what I would consider "embedded systems", move over > as well? > > If so, IMHO there ought to be one list. I can see arguments for either > choice. I think centralizing discussions on this one list make sense also, at least until such time as it's clear there's enough traffic to justify breaking it out. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-embedded@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 09:08:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A93A516A47A; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:08:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mrout1.yahoo.com (mrout1.yahoo.com [216.145.54.171]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D8B43D53; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:08:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy8.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.13]) by mrout1.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4/y.out) with ESMTP id k5M96vhI047906; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:18:39 +0800 Message-ID: From: gnn@freebsd.org To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: <20060621181745.S35462@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060619115827.A25435@wonkity.com> <20060621155727.E8526@fledge.watson.org> <20060621170045.GB15163@soaustin.net> <20060621181745.S35462@fledge.watson.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.0.50 (i386-apple-darwin8.6.1) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:08:33 -0000 At Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:18:21 +0100 (BST), rwatson wrote: > > > On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Mark Linimon wrote: > > > well, the question is, do discussions about picobsd, nanobsd, etc., which > > may not be intended for what I would consider "embedded systems", move over > > as well? > > > > If so, IMHO there ought to be one list. I can see arguments for either > > choice. > > I think centralizing discussions on this one list make sense also, at least > until such time as it's clear there's enough traffic to justify breaking it > out. In terms of subject matter small and embedded should be identical. If core@ or rwatson@ want to have postmaster move people over then that's fine, but I'm not wearing any asbestos briefs so... Later, George