From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 8 07:24:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3FE16A41F for ; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 07:24:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F43E43D46 for ; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 07:24:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87288AD; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 01:24:31 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id B60AD61C21; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 01:24:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 01:24:30 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: jasonm@webace.com.au Message-ID: <20060108072430.GB98507@over-yonder.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Auth probs with POP server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:24:32 -0000 On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 12:15:44AM +0800 I heard the voice of Jason McKay, and lo! it spake thus: > I'm looking for a way to allow my POP server to accept logins from > user@domain.com and user (without the domain). Currently i'm > running QPOP, is there a way to do this with QPOP or can you suggest > a POP server that will allow this. If it doesn't already support an option to do so, it's pretty easy to just hack it to strip off the @ and everything after it. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 13:57:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F93616A41F for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:57:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from erik@microcontroller.nl) Received: from rena.mysmt.net (rena.mysmt.net [82.150.137.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7109543D45 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:57:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from erik@microcontroller.nl) Received: (qmail 65743 invoked by uid 89); 9 Jan 2006 13:57:21 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 65727, pid: 65729, t: 2.5843s scanners: clamav: 0.87.1/m:34/d:1222 spam: 3.0.2 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.14?) (microcon@microcontroller.nl@213.84.50.76) by 82-150-137-14.mysmt.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 13:57:19 -0000 From: "Erik @ Microcontroller.nl" To: FreeBSD ISP Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:04:31 +0100 Message-Id: <1136815471.5851.80.camel@tessa.mysmt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.4 (2.0.4-7) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on rena.mysmt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 Subject: intel SATA raid X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:57:27 -0000 Hi list, Does anyone happen to know if SATA raid is supported by FreeBSD 5 on a intel server board (SE7520BD2) it would be nice if I could drop in two sata disks and setup mirroring like this. Or maybe I shouldn't do this because.. ? My other option is, is to put in a 3ware 8006 pci card but it is pci64 and I wouldn't know if that will work fine in a 32pci slot. Any tips, experiences are very welcome. -Erik. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 14:02:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480D916A41F for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:02:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@xciv.org) Received: from mailhost.xciv.org (vantage.xciv.org [213.228.237.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92EA43D46 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:02:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@xciv.org) Received: from 82-43-153-125.cable.ubr03.newm.blueyonder.co.uk ([82.43.153.125] helo=tuscan.xciv.org) by mailhost.xciv.org with asmtp (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) id 1EvxbP-000IZi-00; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:02:27 +0000 Received: from paul by tuscan.xciv.org with local id 1EvxbK-00007x-C2; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:02:22 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Organization: iso.org.dod.internet References: <1136815471.5851.80.camel@tessa.mysmt.net> In-Reply-To: <1136815471.5851.80.camel@tessa.mysmt.net> From: paul@xciv.org (Paul Civati) X-Original-Newsgroups: xciv.lists.freebsd.isp To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: Sender: Paul Civati Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:02:22 +0000 X-XCIV-MailScanner: Found to be clean Cc: paul@xciv.org Subject: Re: intel SATA raid X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:02:34 -0000 In article <1136815471.5851.80.camel@tessa.mysmt.net>, erik@microcontroller.nl ("Erik @ Microcontroller.nl") writes: > My other option is, is to put in a 3ware 8006 pci card but it is pci64 > and I wouldn't know if that will work fine in a 32pci slot. I am almost certain they are backwards compatible, obviously you might experience restricted performance in a lower spec slot. -Paul- From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 14:30:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7482916A41F for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:30:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from erik@microcontroller.nl) Received: from rena.mysmt.net (rena.mysmt.net [82.150.137.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD2F43D58 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:30:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from erik@microcontroller.nl) Received: (qmail 68995 invoked by uid 89); 9 Jan 2006 14:29:57 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 68985, pid: 68988, t: 3.9866s scanners: clamav: 0.87.1/m:34/d:1222 spam: 3.0.2 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.14?) (microcon@microcontroller.nl@213.84.50.76) by 82-150-137-14.mysmt.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 14:29:53 -0000 From: "Erik @ Microcontroller.nl" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <1136815471.5851.80.camel@tessa.mysmt.net> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:37:01 +0100 Message-Id: <1136817421.5851.85.camel@tessa.mysmt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.4 (2.0.4-7) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on rena.mysmt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 Subject: Re: intel SATA raid X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:30:10 -0000 > > My other option is, is to put in a 3ware 8006 pci card but it is pci64 > > and I wouldn't know if that will work fine in a 32pci slot. > > I am almost certain they are backwards compatible, obviously you > might experience restricted performance in a lower spec slot. Just looked into it, it is supported on that intelboard by 3ware. so that looks good.. Thanks. > > -Paul- > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 03:16:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A4316A420 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:16:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from annkok2001@yahoo.com) Received: from web53312.mail.yahoo.com (web53312.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1EB7B43D46 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:16:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from annkok2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 42821 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 03:16:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=41Okd8UY5V+QiYMrq3xQAeM//GcMITk4mLUDEoSenoFH1t/sEF4X+95O1BmP+D6IKEvjG7XnpbOWIjaqx8CBC31QxmPfb8hJOtxyeh/1EZUxujQbL5Wv3m6JhlYUiqg/TeVgJOMqD15YtR4brwcISpUzr+HnLrCiRL/pdoEu+2U= ; Message-ID: <20060111031613.42819.qmail@web53312.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.154.26.76] by web53312.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:16:13 PST Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:16:13 -0800 (PST) From: ann kok To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:16:14 -0000 Hi all I think this group might be correct to ask the performance of freebsd as router I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 years. I like freebsd because it is more stable and its security. Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop about 383M in mrtg graph and have packet loss when it reaches to 370M I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could you help how to tune the freebsd to have high network throughput? I test the throughput by ipref software. the max is about 390M I configure polling, loader.conf and use the Intel(R) Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata drive with 2G memory Thank you for your help __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 06:33:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29A816A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:33:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alan@uunet.co.za) Received: from mx01.uunet.co.za (mx01.uunet.co.za [196.31.48.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A4443D45 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:33:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alan@uunet.co.za) Received: from [196.30.158.7] (helo=pixproxy.so.jnb6.za.uu.net) by mx01.uunet.co.za with esmtp (Exim 4.50 (FreeBSD)) id 1EwZXf-000PRj-6P; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:33:07 +0200 Received: from lap-alank.staff.uunet.co.za (nop684.nop.jnb6.za.uu.net [196.31.217.84]) by pixproxy.so.jnb6.za.uu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11586D; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:33:06 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:33:04 +0200 (South Africa Standard Time) From: Alan Kemp To: ann kok In-Reply-To: <20060111031613.42819.qmail@web53312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20060111031613.42819.qmail@web53312.mail.yahoo.com> X-X-Sender: akemp@hill.noc.uunet.co.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanner: Scanned By Clam AntiVirus Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:33:09 -0000 On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, ann kok wrote: > Hi all > > I think this group might be correct to ask the > performance of freebsd as router > > I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 years. I like > freebsd because it is more stable and its security. > Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop about 383M in > mrtg graph and have packet loss when it reaches to > 370M > > I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could you help how to > tune the freebsd to have high network throughput? I > test the throughput by ipref software. the max is > about 390M > > I configure polling, loader.conf and use the Intel(R) > Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata drive with 2G > memory Hey, Take a look at this site, it might help. http://silverwraith.com/papers/freebsd-tuning.php cheers -- Alan Kemp Development / Network Systems MCI From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 13:16:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACED16A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:16:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.124]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EE43343D46 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:16:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 94642 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 13:16:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=awfs3fObfZ/i287/rAi58rZXZv/xhvfaVHGq3plGpTi7XJ0j+GDOVPi1YdrT+LH84zwlFVYcCXFD5xCeVBIGufW9X7fQUUWKm3f0cLnKtS/3Ni1WJ1e66yZF5lzUYYrBrVs+cfvJqG/ey9PmWq0dpbDRBlzXZv8/ilWcyLLINso= ; Message-ID: <20060111131621.94640.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:16:21 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:16:21 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: ann kok , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20060111031613.42819.qmail@web53312.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:16:22 -0000 --- ann kok wrote: > Hi all > > I think this group might be correct to ask the > performance of freebsd as router > > I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 years. > I like > freebsd because it is more stable and its > security. > Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop about > 383M in > mrtg graph and have packet loss when it reaches > to > 370M > > I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could you help > how to > tune the freebsd to have high network > throughput? I > test the throughput by ipref software. the max > is > about 390M > > I configure polling, loader.conf and use the > Intel(R) > Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata drive with > 2G > memory > > Thank you for your help Stop wasting your time and stay with FreeBSD 4.11. Its the fastest router platform Man has ever created, and its likely to say that way. If you are using FreeBSD 4.11 for 3 years you will be very unhappy Please don't use polling for a router. Good grief! Intel cards have built-in interrupt moderation. If you are pushing more than 100Kpps then you should increase your receive rings to 512. Otherwise just use the defaults in 4.11 for your best efficiency of your system. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 13:32:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4399016A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:32:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CEB43D5E for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:32:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57976AD; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:32:30 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 93C3E61C28; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:32:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:32:29 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Danial Thom Message-ID: <20060111133229.GF98918@over-yonder.net> References: <20060111031613.42819.qmail@web53312.mail.yahoo.com> <20060111131621.94640.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060111131621.94640.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:32:32 -0000 On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 05:16:21AM -0800 I heard the voice of Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > Stop wasting your time and stay with FreeBSD 4.11. Its the fastest > router platform Man has ever created, and its likely to say that > way. This may be the wildest exaggeration I've read all year (of course, the year is yet quite young). -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 13:46:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A8016A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:46:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists@yazzy.org) Received: from mail.yazzy.org (mail.yazzy.org [217.8.140.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2387D43D48 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:46:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists@yazzy.org) Received: from [84.247.144.144] (helo=marcin) by mail.yazzy.org with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (YazzY.org) id 1EwgIx-0005QR-0E; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:46:23 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:46:47 +0100 From: Marcin Jessa To: danial_thom@yahoo.com Message-Id: <20060111144647.10970c5f.lists@yazzy.org> In-Reply-To: <20060111131621.94640.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060111031613.42819.qmail@web53312.mail.yahoo.com> <20060111131621.94640.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Organization: YazzY.org X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.0.4 (GTK+ 2.8.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:46:51 -0000 On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:16:21 -0800 (PST) Danial Thom wrote: > > > --- ann kok wrote: > > > Hi all > > > > I think this group might be correct to ask the > > performance of freebsd as router > > > > I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 years. > > I like > > freebsd because it is more stable and its > > security. > > Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop about > > 383M in > > mrtg graph and have packet loss when it reaches > > to > > 370M > > > > I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could you help > > how to > > tune the freebsd to have high network > > throughput? I > > test the throughput by ipref software. the max > > is > > about 390M > > > > I configure polling, loader.conf and use the > > Intel(R) > > Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata drive with > > 2G > > memory > > > > Thank you for your help > > Stop wasting your time and stay with FreeBSD > 4.11. Its the fastest router platform Man has > ever created, and its likely to say that way. What makes you think it's faster than other/newer releases of FreeBSD or any other O.S? Sounds to me like you're trolling. > If you are using FreeBSD 4.11 for 3 years you will > be very unhappy > > Please don't use polling for a router. Good > grief! Intel cards have built-in interrupt > moderation. If you are pushing more than 100Kpps > then you should increase your receive rings to > 512. Otherwise just use the defaults in 4.11 for > your best efficiency of your system. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 13:48:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0EC716A420 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:48:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7CEDC43D48 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:48:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 19611 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 13:48:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pGXB8TPgsJFaMFBS4OwOPYBaocN1H653AirPofx/troa2JBDCKtpA79t5yGeK6uFnbobmAjYEtwmnu2SuhhipgaaW+YD/9DDPRjYZecXugxvga6lBEawIEyfDuNwKzEM38D+Wsmx2QrcrL7OPgLqF4er4ymCq9ImiQSZbkoq72A= ; Message-ID: <20060111134814.19609.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:48:14 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:48:14 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20060111133229.GF98918@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:48:15 -0000 --- "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 05:16:21AM -0800 I > heard the voice of > Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > Stop wasting your time and stay with FreeBSD > 4.11. Its the fastest > > router platform Man has ever created, and its > likely to say that > > way. > > This may be the wildest exaggeration I've read > all year (of course, > the year is yet quite young). I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning for thinking so. There is little argument that FreeBSD 4.x is perhaps the fastest Uniprocessor O/S ever created for networking. SMP will likely never be able to match it. It certainly can't now, in the current state of development. Routing is fastest when implemented as a single process task. Once you start chopping up (threading) the path you slow it down. While it could be possible to have a faster routing subsystem on a custom-designed MP O/S, its not practical to build a general purpose O/S in such a way. So freebsd 4.x it is. Freebsd 4.x can route 25% more traffic than its 5.x counterpart on the same hardware. 5.x SMP is actually worse (as it drops more packets at high traffic levels, and FreeBSD 4.x never drops packets until its overrun). DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 13:54:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468D416A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:54:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.128]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D9A5443D45 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:54:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 83022 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 13:54:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gFyWOvW6yQSyUKkGBGRduTt4wgzgQCq345DgjWeFLBxNZqr70e6eY/A0GG6uT0fKl1fNl9LghJm/deOvTSadxZVNr7SyEwwHkVCuFDUAgbSHCQaOg3Gdo+2lSGEIJzZ6XXC0WfKOeNiZ0LYzhC0zWzXmAQE2Cs9alY50J+1GnT4= ; Message-ID: <20060111135408.83020.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:54:08 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:54:08 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: Marcin Jessa In-Reply-To: <20060111144647.10970c5f.lists@yazzy.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:54:09 -0000 --- Marcin Jessa wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:16:21 -0800 (PST) > Danial Thom wrote: > > > > > > > --- ann kok wrote: > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > I think this group might be correct to ask > the > > > performance of freebsd as router > > > > > > I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 > years. > > > I like > > > freebsd because it is more stable and its > > > security. > > > Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop about > > > 383M in > > > mrtg graph and have packet loss when it > reaches > > > to > > > 370M > > > > > > I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could you > help > > > how to > > > tune the freebsd to have high network > > > throughput? I > > > test the throughput by ipref software. the > max > > > is > > > about 390M > > > > > > I configure polling, loader.conf and use > the > > > Intel(R) > > > Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata drive > with > > > 2G > > > memory > > > > > > Thank you for your help > > > > Stop wasting your time and stay with FreeBSD > > 4.11. Its the fastest router platform Man has > > ever created, and its likely to say that way. > It sounds like 1) you've never done any testing 2) you don't understand how things work Check my other post in this thread for details. Whats the point of "trolling" that freebsd 4 is better at routing than 5? Do you think I own stock in freebsd 4? Linux 2.6 is slower than linux 2.4 at routing. Its the simple truth. Easily determined. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 13:56:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8C116A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:56:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D4043D46 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:56:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC99168; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:56:27 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 5546D61C21; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:56:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:56:26 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Danial Thom Message-ID: <20060111135626.GG98918@over-yonder.net> References: <20060111133229.GF98918@over-yonder.net> <20060111134814.19609.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060111134814.19609.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:56:28 -0000 On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 05:48:14AM -0800 I heard the voice of Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning for thinking so. I can walk over to Cisco and buy a router that will push well over a billion packets per second. FreeBSD 4.x can't even come within 3 orders of magnitude of that. > Routing is fastest when implemented as a single process task. Not even remotely true. And routing is CERTAINLY not fastest when implemented on a CPU. > While it could be possible to have a faster routing subsystem on a > custom-designed MP O/S, its not practical to build a general purpose > O/S in such a way. s/could be/absolutely is/ Which pretty well eliminates the statement "FreeBSD foo is the fastest router platform Man has ever created" right there. The fastest router platform is and will always be a platform designed to be a router. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 14:10:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF39F16A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:10:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.119]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D4D943D79 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:10:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 484 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 14:10:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hxC/tH2kjOlkvMR0hjRYdOLBWaAZfvp9ML0SzQCutfGdXTxnUPS8p4bpWYoIF6YI+QW7RPSZ+Ya8PIqOI850vwwNyOcJL2IcLHeuGhf38MnvJ7NZqlqx6zK+F/HPyFO9Kyyn5J9vGCmdKG+XdX8IYx62vjfb9FdHB2lVQpmIG1Y= ; Message-ID: <20060111141015.482.qmail@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:10:15 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:10:15 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20060111135626.GG98918@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:10:21 -0000 --- "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 05:48:14AM -0800 I > heard the voice of > Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning > for thinking so. > > I can walk over to Cisco and buy a router that > will push well over a > billion packets per second. FreeBSD 4.x can't > even come within 3 > orders of magnitude of that. Well thats just stupid. Clearly I'm referring to general purpose operating systems, not custom hardware platforms. And I don't see any of your logic for thinking that "newer FreeBSD versions" are faster. They're not. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 14:11:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC4716A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:11:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists@yazzy.org) Received: from mail.yazzy.org (mail.yazzy.org [217.8.140.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C662643D76 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:11:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists@yazzy.org) Received: from [84.247.144.144] (helo=marcin) by mail.yazzy.org with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (YazzY.org) id 1Ewggv-0007bt-BF; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:11:11 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:11:33 +0100 From: Marcin Jessa To: danial_thom@yahoo.com Message-Id: <20060111151133.236856a4.lists@yazzy.org> In-Reply-To: <20060111135408.83020.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060111144647.10970c5f.lists@yazzy.org> <20060111135408.83020.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Organization: YazzY.org X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.0.4 (GTK+ 2.8.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:11:45 -0000 On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:54:08 -0800 (PST) Danial Thom wrote: > > > --- Marcin Jessa wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:16:21 -0800 (PST) > > Danial Thom wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- ann kok wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > I think this group might be correct to ask > > the > > > > performance of freebsd as router > > > > > > > > I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 > > years. > > > > I like > > > > freebsd because it is more stable and its > > > > security. > > > > Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop about > > > > 383M in > > > > mrtg graph and have packet loss when it > > reaches > > > > to > > > > 370M > > > > > > > > I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could you > > help > > > > how to > > > > tune the freebsd to have high network > > > > throughput? I > > > > test the throughput by ipref software. the > > max > > > > is > > > > about 390M > > > > > > > > I configure polling, loader.conf and use > > the > > > > Intel(R) > > > > Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata drive > > with > > > > 2G > > > > memory > > > > > > > > Thank you for your help > > > > > > Stop wasting your time and stay with FreeBSD > > > 4.11. Its the fastest router platform Man has > > > ever created, and its likely to say that way. > > > > It sounds like > > 1) you've never done any testing > 2) you don't understand how things work > > Check my other post in this thread for details. > > Whats the point of "trolling" that freebsd 4 is > better at routing than 5? Do you think I own > stock in freebsd 4? Linux 2.6 is slower than > linux 2.4 at routing. Its the simple truth. > Easily > determined. Point proven, you are trolling. There is an article I would like you to read before going any further: http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ Marcin. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 14:21:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0953316A42A for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:21:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7FAF43D49 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:21:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C89EAD; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:21:07 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 6ADA261C21; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:21:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:21:06 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Danial Thom Message-ID: <20060111142106.GH98918@over-yonder.net> References: <20060111135626.GG98918@over-yonder.net> <20060111141015.482.qmail@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060111141015.482.qmail@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:21:09 -0000 On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 06:10:15AM -0800 I heard the voice of Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > Well thats just stupid. Clearly I'm referring to general purpose > operating systems, not custom hardware platforms. "[...] fastest router platform man has ever created" doesn't include, imply, or even allow such qualifications. State insane hyperbole, expect to get called on insane hyperbole 8-} > And I don't see any of your logic for thinking that "newer FreeBSD > versions" are faster. They're not. Well, for starters, _I_ never expressed any opinion as to whether they were. 5.x certainly isn't (but then, 5.x is slower at most things than 4.x). 6.x may be, in certain situations. And 7.x very likely will be, particularly with the work Andre is currently doing in the network stack. MP is a DECIDED advantage in routing since you can process things in parallel, and routing is a _very_ parallelizable operation, since packets are independent of each other. All of which is pretty irrelevant to the OP's question, of course. If 4.x is working for you, and you don't have a pressing need to upgrade, use 4.x. If you're not getting the performance you expect out of networking on 6.x, -net is probably a better place to ask than -isp. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 14:24:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0677116A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:24:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4ED4E43D60 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:24:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 47058 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 14:24:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jGrpRxRewbWZUQV8klVYFYgfEs06Z51M6xnZIpRquMIgH83EqWvZqRWCMrx4jsSXh6BlFLXb90rfxwSJ0LCbRn0q2FAWUXai70YXW8IXyUBh3lowpZq585Yqg8tW2E2sNNFcz8twcWEtPlrB2nsLtZ7HHmDIsKVrSChJRZnSwLU= ; Message-ID: <20060111142432.47056.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:24:31 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:24:31 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: Marcin Jessa In-Reply-To: <20060111151133.236856a4.lists@yazzy.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:24:37 -0000 --- Marcin Jessa wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:54:08 -0800 (PST) > Danial Thom wrote: > > > > > > > --- Marcin Jessa wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:16:21 -0800 (PST) > > > Danial Thom wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- ann kok wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > I think this group might be correct to > ask > > > the > > > > > performance of freebsd as router > > > > > > > > > > I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 > > > years. > > > > > I like > > > > > freebsd because it is more stable and > its > > > > > security. > > > > > Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop > about > > > > > 383M in > > > > > mrtg graph and have packet loss when it > > > reaches > > > > > to > > > > > 370M > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could > you > > > help > > > > > how to > > > > > tune the freebsd to have high network > > > > > throughput? I > > > > > test the throughput by ipref software. > the > > > max > > > > > is > > > > > about 390M > > > > > > > > > > I configure polling, loader.conf and > use > > > the > > > > > Intel(R) > > > > > Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata > drive > > > with > > > > > 2G > > > > > memory > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your help > > > > > > > > Stop wasting your time and stay with > FreeBSD > > > > 4.11. Its the fastest router platform Man > has > > > > ever created, and its likely to say that > way. > > > > > > > It sounds like > > > > 1) you've never done any testing > > 2) you don't understand how things work > > > > Check my other post in this thread for > details. > > > > Whats the point of "trolling" that freebsd 4 > is > > better at routing than 5? Do you think I own > > stock in freebsd 4? Linux 2.6 is slower than > > linux 2.4 at routing. Its the simple truth. > > Easily > > determined. > > Point proven, you are trolling. > There is an article I would like you to read > before going any further: > http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ It helps if you understand benchmarking, and why these tests are a joke. Does an O/S use sockets to route? No. Does it do any forking or binding? no. At least try to understand the subject matter. And freeBSD 5.1 was a piece of crap and even the freebsd developers admit that. So the fact that you give even an once of credibility to it is just plain stupid. On second thought, I think I'm right about Cisco vs Freebsd. Cisco doesn't have any product that can route as many PPS as freebsd 4.x without specialized hardware. The proof of the pudding is in the test. Set up a box with 1 route and 2 NICs and pump traffic through it until it starts to drop packets. Then pop another disk on and try with another O/S. Its not rocket science. FreeBSD 4.x wins hands down. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 14:41:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B54116A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:41:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.125]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 24C3E43D46 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:41:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 33130 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 14:41:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gri2wJG5kNM6popX8rbu2m7+hEAFAQHiQwujdF6affSUArF6m2ZJ7Qdt2b47pcJZK8eivNo/cDZdtwiWoFj7H7kMRUVk61mVGW6w06ov/0pg+ssOE4Riijmfuf+TgI+chyJ/oOeiTzE6pBk82DbKqZVrkN7RpNX4GdKVujqe+W0= ; Message-ID: <20060111144137.33128.qmail@web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:41:37 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:41:37 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20060111142106.GH98918@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:41:39 -0000 --- "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 06:10:15AM -0800 I > heard the voice of > Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > Well thats just stupid. Clearly I'm referring > to general purpose > > operating systems, not custom hardware > platforms. > > "[...] fastest router platform man has ever > created" doesn't include, > imply, or even allow such qualifications. > State insane hyperbole, > expect to get called on insane hyperbole 8-} > > > > And I don't see any of your logic for > thinking that "newer FreeBSD > > versions" are faster. They're not. > > Well, for starters, _I_ never expressed any > opinion as to whether they > were. 5.x certainly isn't (but then, 5.x is > slower at most things > than 4.x). 6.x may be, in certain situations. > And 7.x very likely > will be, particularly with the work Andre is > currently doing in the > network stack. MP is a DECIDED advantage in > routing since you can > process things in parallel, and routing is a > _very_ parallelizable > operation, since packets are independent of > each other. No, that's wrong. Firstly, you CAN do things in parallel, but when you chop up the "tasks" in routing you don't gain anything, in fact you lose, because it is best done as a single task. Think of it as a 100M dash with 1 guy against a relay team of 2 guys, with all 3 exactly the same speed. The 1 guy will win every time, because you'll never overcome the hand-off. The best you'll ever be able to do is tie him. By "threading" the kernel you make it run more efficiently when you have tasks that have to stop-and-wait for other things, but in a router your main, preemptive task is the routing, which you can't improve by parallelizing it. In fact you add lots of unnecessary cpu cycles that get in the way of the single task approach. You *might* be able to gain additional capacity IF you design the rx/tx tasks in a certain way, but you'll have more latency through the box. I can promise you that 7.0 is far from "probably" anything. They are a long way off. Maybe come up with some real benchmarks (like the one I suggested in my other post) so you won't be bamboozled by the hype so easily. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 14:55:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7157A16A420 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:55:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D7BD43D55 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:55:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC81AAD; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:55:35 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id CC34861C21; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:55:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:55:34 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Danial Thom Message-ID: <20060111145534.GI98918@over-yonder.net> References: <20060111142106.GH98918@over-yonder.net> <20060111144137.33128.qmail@web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060111144137.33128.qmail@web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:55:43 -0000 On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 06:41:37AM -0800 I heard the voice of Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > No, that's wrong. Firstly, you CAN do things in parallel, but when > you chop up the "tasks" in routing you don't gain anything, in fact > you lose, because it is best done as a single task. No, because you can route MULTIPLE PACKETS AT ONE TIME. Only the most trivial and uninteresting routing tasks move packets one at a time from one interface to another. Why should my packet coming in em1 and going out em3 have to wait until you're done with your packet coming in em0 and going out em2? MP is a distinct advantage. > I can promise you that 7.0 is far from "probably" anything. They are > a long way off. Maybe come up with some real benchmarks (like the > one I suggested in my other post) so you won't be bamboozled by the > hype so easily. Ooh, darn! All that hype bamboozled its way sideways into my tear ducts, and now I can't see straight! Or maybe it's just 'cuz I actually read -net and -cvs... This work has been shown to increase fast-forwarding from ~570 kpps to ~750 kpps (note that the same NIC hardware seems unable to transmit more than 800 kpps, so this increase appears to be limited almost solely by the hardware). Gains have been shown in other workloads, ranging from better performance to elimination of over-saturation livelocks. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/dev/em/if_em.c#rev1.98 Perhaps you should spend a little less time thinking up ways to flame people, and a little more time considering that just maybe FreeBSD is developed by marginally competent people who are interested in and capable of making progress. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 15:22:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C66216A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:22:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.124]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F151B43D46 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:22:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 46012 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 15:22:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=n5xrqoesW5c1DzeVkHHKkHYc1XIlSql6ZgSu4gePtdWZ0rrp8N1OWUP3nF5vxvOK5NIY43RARC3E/KXVFsMeIeH8+C2XkCMjBtcMNYjWRts80r5/R752clDm0b6HTW0kNS9imekH61OioC4jzRnXPC/jGa55/vpXVoO14jIT2qw= ; Message-ID: <20060111152215.46010.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:22:15 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:22:15 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20060111145534.GI98918@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:22:16 -0000 --- "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 06:41:37AM -0800 I > heard the voice of > Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > No, that's wrong. Firstly, you CAN do things > in parallel, but when > > you chop up the "tasks" in routing you don't > gain anything, in fact > > you lose, because it is best done as a single > task. > > No, because you can route MULTIPLE PACKETS AT > ONE TIME. Only the most > trivial and uninteresting routing tasks move > packets one at a time > from one interface to another. Why should my > packet coming in em1 and > going out em3 have to wait until you're done > with your packet coming > in em0 and going out em2? MP is a distinct > advantage. because you don't know that the packet on em0 is going out em1 until after you've processed it so far that you might as well just send it. And you don't have different instances of driver code to access each em port, so you can't do a lot of things in parallel. You're basically limited in an MP environment to sucking the packet out of the ring and throwing it into a queue. In a UP environment you can process the queue right away; in MP you might have the other processor suck it out of the queue, but it can't do it until its there, and you can't really process another packet until you're done with that one, so how quickly you throw the next one in doesn't really matter. Again, you're being idealistic rather than understanding how things really work. What you're referring to is done in high end routers with intelligent cards than can offload the routing tasks if the entire transaction is on that card. But it doesn't apply to a general purpose MP OS, or more importantly how freebsd works. > > > > I can promise you that 7.0 is far from > "probably" anything. They are > > a long way off. Maybe come up with some real > benchmarks (like the > > one I suggested in my other post) so you > won't be bamboozled by the > > hype so easily. > > Ooh, darn! All that hype bamboozled its way > sideways into my tear > ducts, and now I can't see straight! Or maybe > it's just 'cuz I > actually read -net and -cvs... > > This work has been shown to increase > fast-forwarding from ~570 > kpps to ~750 kpps (note that the same NIC > hardware seems unable to > transmit more than 800 kpps, so this > increase appears to be > limited almost solely by the hardware). > Gains have been shown in > other workloads, ranging from better > performance to elimination of > over-saturation livelocks. I can pass a million pps on freebsd 4.x, so perhaps your *hardware limit* has more to do with you or them not understanding the test? Funny that they don't mention packet loss, maybe they forgot to look? 5.x alleviates livelock by dumping buckets of packets. In my view, dumping packets is not acceptable. If you can pass more packets but you drop a ton of them in the process then you haven't really achieved anything. I'm sorry, but you really don't understand what you're talking about, and yes, you *have been* bamboozled. Do some tests yourself, because until you do, you don't *know* anything. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 15:29:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99B716A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:29:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.124]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 395DC43D45 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:29:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48667 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 15:29:26 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WEYzrUCXDDyx68O063JJ/gaAR4lYsYt9tEjIGlTG/LJX55TbvbaFsf4fONsPYi/SR9wxMYFuvPTCoAFdwvRlqqwxleJosscCALytQ9rLfqJFFwAFrcs2Oo8ysNOVfgdmzxy0v9y3Kd85FfXOCTj+d57dgQBfhzIgYRsYazPtcJc= ; Message-ID: <20060111152926.48665.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:29:26 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:29:26 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: Marcin Jessa In-Reply-To: <20060111151133.236856a4.lists@yazzy.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:29:27 -0000 > There is an article I would like you to read > before going any further: > http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ You know I just read a bit more of this; this is better than reading the morning comics! What a bunch of useless "tests" and wrong conclusions. He's using a UP system, and says linux 2.6 scales fabulously. Well in truth, linux 2.6 will start dropping packets at a much lower traffic level than 2.4 will. They've made trade-offs in 2.6 that no longer make packet reception a preemptive task (which gives audio-type application more controllable access to the kernel). The worst part is that there is no way to fix it. So linux 2.6 is, IMO, completely unusable for a large scale router. But if you plan on checking the cpu cycle clock a few million times a second, then I'd follow his results to make your business decisions! LOL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 15:30:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8924016A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:30:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31CD43D66 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:30:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18580AD; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:30:47 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 7979C61C21; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:30:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:30:45 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Danial Thom Message-ID: <20060111153045.GJ98918@over-yonder.net> References: <20060111145534.GI98918@over-yonder.net> <20060111152215.46010.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060111152215.46010.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:30:56 -0000 On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 07:22:15AM -0800 I heard the voice of Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > You're basically limited in an MP environment to sucking the packet > out of the ring and throwing it into a queue. I can only presume you're being willfully silly. An MP environment is quite capable of grabbing the packet from an interface, and then CONTINUING TO PROCESS IT while the other CPU grabs the next packet and starts processing it. You can process through to completion JUST as easily on a MP system as you can on a UP system, except that you're not blocking the next packet while you do it. Furthermore, you've got another CPU to do things like update the routing table and deal with OTHER interrupts and kernel tasks at the same time. > I can pass a million pps on freebsd 4.x, so perhaps your *hardware > limit* has more to do with you or them not understanding the test? I'll leave you to argue with the people writing the network subsystem about their understanding of it. > Funny that they don't mention packet loss, maybe they forgot to > look? Why, yes, in point of fact, they did (rather, the total lack of it), which you'd know if you were following the discussions on the lists specifically set up to talk about these things, rather than simply puffing yourself up on an unrelated list. *plonk* -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 16:41:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D9E16A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:41:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 084B643D66 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:41:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 44673 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 16:41:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=q74OeUI2ssMDjdMzoBO+omOo3gdm40gm8zdWXHqarQWU2d63pk/gE02WOFBeMEvDOI7DIwP4nf51R2iW2bi0kYFw776s1o3mO7p/F1n6mUL8mmdFAE2Zpm7ICj4WWXjiM3bH7Q98skR+APlQQsCWeZjPFV6j8sbAQITeDczd2tM= ; Message-ID: <20060111164141.44671.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:41:41 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:41:41 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20060111153045.GJ98918@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:41:51 -0000 --- "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 07:22:15AM -0800 I > heard the voice of > Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > You're basically limited in an MP environment > to sucking the packet > > out of the ring and throwing it into a queue. > > I can only presume you're being willfully > silly. An MP environment is > quite capable of grabbing the packet from an > interface, and then > CONTINUING TO PROCESS IT while the other CPU > grabs the next packet and > starts processing it. You can process through > to completion JUST as > easily on a MP system as you can on a UP > system, except that you're > not blocking the next packet while you do it. > Furthermore, you've got > another CPU to do things like update the > routing table and deal with > OTHER interrupts and kernel tasks at the same > time. That all sounds good but it doesn't work all that peachily in practice. Your concept of this ultra-efficient scheduler that can do all this stuff with no overhead is just plain fantasy. > > > > I can pass a million pps on freebsd 4.x, so > perhaps your *hardware > > limit* has more to do with you or them not > understanding the test? > > I'll leave you to argue with the people writing > the network subsystem > about their understanding of it. > > > > Funny that they don't mention packet loss, > maybe they forgot to > > look? > > Why, yes, in point of fact, they did (rather, > the total lack of it), > which you'd know if you were following the > discussions on the lists > specifically set up to talk about these things, > rather than simply > puffing yourself up on an unrelated list. You know, I just read the thread on the snippet you posted, and its frightening to me that they are committing this hacked code to the source after 1 rather uncontrolled test from a known BSer like Andre Oppermann. I think it just goes to show how utterly disorganized and desparate the FreeBSD "team" has become. There used to be a controlled method to commiting code; thoughtful discussion between several people with strong knowledge of all aspects of the affected subsystems. Now some "dude" does some test with FASTFORWARDING enabled (which uses a different path than any real router would use)and bam, lets commit the code! Our buddy Andre has been making bogus claims for years now, so be careful who you snuggle up with. Here's a paper he wrote on 5.3, when he claimed FreeBSD 5.3 could route 1 million pps with the "new" fastforwarding code: http://people.freebsd.org/~andre/FreeBSD-5.3-Networking.pdf page 11 is the reference. Of course now he says that his "new" code can do 750Kpps and that more than 800K is impossible? lol. Please believe me when I tell you that you are being lied to and bamboozled. I really do know what I'm talking about. The freebsd "team" no longer has the talent to get this project done. Its really quite frightening what FreeBSD has become. I truly wonder if it will ever be a trustworthy O/S again. It reminds me of the early days of LINUX. A big mess run by a bunch of college kids. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 17:16:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD6B16A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:16:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fcash@ocis.net) Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca (mailtest.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99A143D48 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:16:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fcash@ocis.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495DD8A004C for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 79685-01-95 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from s157.sbo (unknown [192.168.0.157]) by smtp.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03BC8A0041 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:18 -0800 (PST) From: Freddie Cash To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:15:52 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.3 References: <20060111164141.44671.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060111164141.44671.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200601110915.53082.fcash@ocis.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at sd73.bc.ca Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:16:02 -0000 On January 11, 2006 08:41 am, Danial Thom wrote: > I really do know what I'm talking > about. The freebsd "team" no longer has the > talent to get this project done. Just once, on one of the many lists you post this stuff to, I'd like to see some supporting evidence *from you*. A description of your test lab, the hardware used, the software used, the testing methodology, some hard numbers, something reproducable. Something more than just "I know what I'm talking about, you're all wrong." Nowhere on any of the Linux, DFly, or FreeBSD mailing lists that I frequent have you provided any of this. Even googling for your name doesn't provide anything concrete from you regarding this issue. Until that happens, its impossible for anybody to take you seriously. And these threads will just devolve into "I'm right" "No you're not" "Yes I am, you're dumb" "No, you're dumb" verbal nonsense (as has happened three times so far in the past 2 months). -- Freddie Cash fcash@ocis.net From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 18:00:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8326A16A420 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:00:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.124]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F17E43D46 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:00:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 15627 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 18:00:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=rkCXaX/vAST07VDix3ngUsdWRWPN4rHNURWA7f23UUoUOx7mtM/By0A665Epqdrwz54f13lmCh525EtSM0/+qpoP7jNCupbXzH/JX3WfJU4L3eZvH9i8NrWLzi9AqJyoDHbaISCXUmXfAMLuEEtZRKdX2OyVaBW1cJKZD5MXVFc= ; Message-ID: <20060111180054.15625.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:00:54 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:00:54 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: Freddie Cash , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200601110915.53082.fcash@ocis.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:00:56 -0000 --- Freddie Cash wrote: > On January 11, 2006 08:41 am, Danial Thom > wrote: > > I really do know what I'm talking > > about. The freebsd "team" no longer has the > > talent to get this project done. > > Just once, on one of the many lists you post > this stuff to, I'd like to > see some supporting evidence *from you*. A > description of your test lab, > the hardware used, the software used, the > testing methodology, some hard > numbers, something reproducable. Something > more than just "I know what > I'm talking about, you're all wrong." > > Nowhere on any of the Linux, DFly, or FreeBSD > mailing lists that I > frequent have you provided any of this. > > Even googling for your name doesn't provide > anything concrete from you > regarding this issue. Until that happens, its > impossible for anybody to > take you seriously. And these threads will > just devolve into "I'm right" > "No you're not" "Yes I am, you're dumb" "No, > you're dumb" verbal nonsense > (as has happened three times so far in the past > 2 months). > > -- > Freddie Cash > fcash@ocis.net We seem to have the same discussions over and over and no one really seems to have a clue, and the same wrong advice keeps being given. I've outlined simple tests many times, including in THIS thread. You just read selectively like everyone else, because you prefer not to hear that you've been doing everything wrong your whole life: " The proof of the pudding is in the test. Set up a box with 1 route and 2 NICs and pump traffic through it until it starts to drop packets. Then pop another disk on and try with another O/S. Its not rocket science. FreeBSD 4.x wins hands down. " Then you need to do other things, as a control, to see how different features work. Doing fastforwarding, for example, may cause all of the code and memory being used to sit in the cpu cache, which may give very different results from a larger scale test that doesn't. Intels blow AMD away out of the cache, while AMD does better out of it, so when you see a benchmark you have to be careful of what your conclusions are, and what your environment is. Frankly I don't see how any of you guys, who rely on freebsd for your businesses, don't do any testing yourselves. People slapping up AMD64 dual systems without having any idea if its any better than their old box. It mindless. "oh, its 64bit so it much be faster than 32bit". Its just stupid. Today's freebsd "team" is completely different than it was during the 4.x heydays; all the great minds behind it are gone; yet you still follow it blindly as if its just some project that any ole programmer can do. Its really quite fascinating. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 18:05:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C8C16A420 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:05:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.119]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29C1243D46 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:05:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 2706 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 18:05:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=tJ9ERIxkj9qBWjO1FQoXD0z9lRpRpFnlvLnDnwODmGH/TmiJTRmku8kWWRXwaIWtkcC/Dgh6YnV2l5C7PNRujPR0znPiMkrVDM6iTLeXvFkgr968QOFJ7Elmiebjglin14Ykw+6b0ybDblEt4lNidEHHMJyNAtLgSS9/RY2/Pkc= ; Message-ID: <20060111180550.2704.qmail@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.46.186.215] by web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:05:50 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:05:50 -0800 (PST) From: Danial Thom To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20060111153045.GJ98918@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, ann kok Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:05:52 -0000 --- "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 07:22:15AM -0800 I > heard the voice of > Danial Thom, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > You're basically limited in an MP environment > to sucking the packet > > out of the ring and throwing it into a queue. > > I can only presume you're being willfully > silly. An MP environment is > quite capable of grabbing the packet from an > interface, and then > CONTINUING TO PROCESS IT while the other CPU > grabs the next packet and > starts processing it. You can process through > to completion JUST as > easily on a MP system as you can on a UP > system, except that you're > not blocking the next packet while you do it. > Furthermore, you've got > another CPU to do things like update the > routing table and deal with > OTHER interrupts and kernel tasks at the same > time. and another concept you fail to grasp is that with 1 processor the data for the entire transaction sits in the cpu cache, whereas with 2 it has to be read again. Its not necessarily desireable to have 2 processors working on the same data. There are a lot of issues that aren't as black and white as "2 processors must be faster than 1". DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 20:45:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E75C16A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:45:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B4D43D48 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:45:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EwmqP-0002IE-Gl for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:45:21 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:45:21 -0600 Message-ID: <20060111144521.es5wuqxniw0gccco@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:45:21 -0600 From: jfarmer@goldsword.com To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <20060111180054.15625.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060111180054.15625.qmail@web33309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:45:28 -0000 Quoting Danial Thom : > > > [Much Garbage deleted....] > > Did too, did not, your mother wears army boots... Danial, You haven't offered any useful information in this thread. If you want a flame war, please take it to private mail. As it is, you are cluttering up my in-box with useless crap. Nor did you attempt to help the OP, just used his post as a springboard for your posturing. As another respondent on the list said, you haven't provided any concrete facts, data, or _CODE_ to help improve things. You've slandered the FreeBSD developers, yet I don't see you contributing anything. John Farmer FreeBSD since 2.0.X days, Unix since Release 6.... ------------------------------------------------------------------- John T. Farmer Owner & CTO GoldSword Systems jfarmer@goldsword.com 865-691-6498 Knoxville TN Consulting, Design, & Development of Networks & Software From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 12 00:48:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A3B16A41F for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:48:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from patrik.forsberg@dataphone.net) Received: from exhsto1.se.dataphone.com (exhsto1.se.dataphone.com [212.37.6.239]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6640143D48 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:48:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from patrik.forsberg@dataphone.net) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:46:53 +0100 Message-ID: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D40C@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: freebsd router thread-index: AcYW2cjKQHSGKDjTT0OKBw0NP2S5nAANLfLg From: "Patrik Forsberg" To: Subject: RE: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:48:22 -0000 > and another concept you fail to grasp is that > with 1 processor the data for the entire > transaction sits in the cpu cache, whereas with 2 > it has to be read again. Its not necessarily > desireable to have 2 processors working on the > same data. There are a lot of issues that aren't > as black and white as "2 processors must be > faster than 1".=20 Aculy this is probably, cant say for sure, quite true. The logic behind = it all is that routing wont profit from dual processors.. becouse there = are nothing that benefit from threading. O.. yea I feel the flame coming!.. anyways.. if you only have a single route(default) and a network behind = it all .. yes.. simple UP routing would be the best. But what I do not = know and haven't ether read test or done any testing of myself is what = happends if you throw in a few routing protocols.. like BGP, OSPF and = perhaps a bit of RIP in the mess.. here I would guess that SMP systems = would perform better becouse the calculation of routing table could be = done threaded. Now.. I do not say this is so.. becouse, once more, I = haven't done any lab around it. Basicly tho FreeBSD 4.x does not = outperform a specialy built network router, simply becouse it ain't = built for it. If you're going to throw around over 500M data with a = million or more pps I would not recommend any generic server OS, but = rather a "real" router OS like IOS, AlliedWare or the like with a real = router platform. Altho I do have a FreeBSD 5.x Quagga sitting in a network today that do = shovel around about 1=BD - 2Gbit data at peak rate and ~400kpps, running = OSPF and BGP for IPv4 routing .. that doesnt mean it does it good :P As for UP vs. SMP perhaps there are good reasons why "real" router = builders go for UP - other than that its cheap :P Basicly it comes down to what you're going to use your router for. For = simple tasks a Quagga would work fine in both FreeBSD 4.x, 5.x and 6.x = and most likely you would benefit from using a single processor. But for = a large scale network with IPv4 and IPv6 in a dynamicly build enviroment = maybe this aint surch a good idea. Perhaps its better to spend a few = extra bucks on a real router with hw support and so on. And a answer to the OP: ----------------------- " I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 years. I like freebsd because it is more stable and its security. Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop about 383M in mrtg graph and have packet loss when it reaches to 370M " Have you verified that you aint stuck with a 32bit nic ?=20 those have a peak rate at around 300-500Mbit/s, for better performance = go for 64bit nic and maybe even PCI-X. " I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could you help how to tune the freebsd to have high network throughput? I test the throughput by ipref software. the max is about 390M " Can't really help here. I usaly go for the stock setup exept recompiling = the kernel and world for the specific machine. " I configure polling, loader.conf and use the Intel(R) Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata drive with 2G memory " You dont need polling on intel nics.. it only slow things down. You = should never need polling if your running a router aculy. Well, that my to cent of the pussle :P ps.=20 o boy, this became longer the expected!=20 perhaps Im all wrong and you're all masters, but then again perhaps Im = the smart one and everyone else is just plain dumb! ds. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 12 03:19:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B7816A41F for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:19:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from annkok2001@yahoo.com) Received: from web53310.mail.yahoo.com (web53310.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BB65543D48 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:19:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from annkok2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 92208 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2006 03:19:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5/ZHrqontmEgExuQs03R/idK8hXnJRMO8hHgoDM+PmuVB5ab5S4rSJUatM/9+kC4SzOOEfdgR+tNGYQcu4f4EsoYTZx3Sbx0I+ZHElB/B7o5uQgAZKcet+GCWP9JD/V4za5Y09hA8acOrJayIoCPXIDhlZD4eAuh68rRZ1pyIsg= ; Message-ID: <20060112031922.92206.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.154.26.76] by web53310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:19:21 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:19:21 -0800 (PST) From: ann kok To: Patrik Forsberg , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D40C@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: RE: freebsd router X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:19:27 -0000 Dear all Thank you very much for your help today I did test freebsd6.0 without polling by iperf the output is 665M 558 Mbit/sec before the output is 390M xx Mbit/sec with polling I will disable the polling in freebsd4.11 in production router tomorrow. Patrik, could you share your experience to me? What is your hardware? do you need to tune any sysctl variable or specific configure to have well perform router >Altho I do have a FreeBSD 5.x Quagga sitting in a network today that do shovel around about 1½ - 2Gbit data at peak rate and ~400kpps, running OSPF and BGP for IPv4 routing .. that doesnt mean it does it good :P Thank you very much --- Patrik Forsberg wrote: > > and another concept you fail to grasp is that > > with 1 processor the data for the entire > > transaction sits in the cpu cache, whereas with 2 > > it has to be read again. Its not necessarily > > desireable to have 2 processors working on the > > same data. There are a lot of issues that aren't > > as black and white as "2 processors must be > > faster than 1". > > Aculy this is probably, cant say for sure, quite > true. The logic behind it all is that routing wont > profit from dual processors.. becouse there are > nothing that benefit from threading. > O.. yea I feel the flame coming!.. > > anyways.. if you only have a single route(default) > and a network behind it all .. yes.. simple UP > routing would be the best. But what I do not know > and haven't ether read test or done any testing of > myself is what happends if you throw in a few > routing protocols.. like BGP, OSPF and perhaps a bit > of RIP in the mess.. here I would guess that SMP > systems would perform better becouse the calculation > of routing table could be done threaded. Now.. I do > not say this is so.. becouse, once more, I haven't > done any lab around it. Basicly tho FreeBSD 4.x does > not outperform a specialy built network router, > simply becouse it ain't built for it. If you're > going to throw around over 500M data with a million > or more pps I would not recommend any generic server > OS, but rather a "real" router OS like IOS, > AlliedWare or the like with a real router platform. > > Altho I do have a FreeBSD 5.x Quagga sitting in a > network today that do shovel around about 1½ - 2Gbit > data at peak rate and ~400kpps, running OSPF and BGP > for IPv4 routing .. that doesnt mean it does it good > :P > > As for UP vs. SMP perhaps there are good reasons why > "real" router builders go for UP - other than that > its cheap :P > > Basicly it comes down to what you're going to use > your router for. For simple tasks a Quagga would > work fine in both FreeBSD 4.x, 5.x and 6.x and most > likely you would benefit from using a single > processor. But for a large scale network with IPv4 > and IPv6 in a dynamicly build enviroment maybe this > aint surch a good idea. Perhaps its better to spend > a few extra bucks on a real router with hw support > and so on. > > And a answer to the OP: > ----------------------- > " > I have run freebsd 4.11 as router for 3 years. I > like > freebsd because it is more stable and its security. > Recently, the bandwidth grows to stop about 383M in > mrtg graph and have packet loss when it reaches to > 370M > " > > Have you verified that you aint stuck with a 32bit > nic ? > those have a peak rate at around 300-500Mbit/s, for > better performance go for 64bit nic and maybe even > PCI-X. > > " > I am trying to use freebsd 6.0. Could you help how > to > tune the freebsd to have high network throughput? I > test the throughput by ipref software. the max is > about 390M > " > > Can't really help here. I usaly go for the stock > setup exept recompiling the kernel and world for the > specific machine. > > " > I configure polling, loader.conf and use the > Intel(R) > Pentium 3.0 Hz, intel Giga em0, sata drive with 2G > memory > " > > You dont need polling on intel nics.. it only slow > things down. You should never need polling if your > running a router aculy. > > > Well, that my to cent of the pussle :P > > ps. > o boy, this became longer the expected! > perhaps Im all wrong and you're all masters, but > then again perhaps Im the smart one and everyone > else is just plain dumb! > ds. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 12 22:49:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C23E16A420 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:49:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mike@lanline.com) Received: from mail.lanline.com (mail.lanline.com [216.187.0.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15AD243D45 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:49:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mike@lanline.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by mail.lanline.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id k0CMnWY23746 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:49:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:49:32 -0500 (EST) From: To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: management X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:49:34 -0000 Hi all, Sorry, I know I've asked a question similar to this in the past, but... I am currently in the process of migrating from BSD/OS to FreeBSD. I'm very concerned with the management of my new FreeBSD server farm. There doesn't seem to be much documentation in the way of large scale FreeBSD management. I posted a question recently about upgrades (having one server w/ the source and NFS mounting the source dirs to all the other machines and building that way), but I feel like some minor details are missing. Like, can I or should I redirect the obj code to a directory on the local machine so I don't have to do a make clean as I go from server to server (and if so, can I do this through make.conf)? Same thing with ports. Also, I know about portupgrade, but is that the best way to manage ports? Is there something better? And the port system itself... I know it's supposed to provide all this flexibility, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation about what variables can be set or anything (e.g. can I force the binary to get installed in a certain dir?) I know I could look in the makefiles and stuff, but I really don't have that kind of time (damn sys. admining) Is there some documentation or something I don't know about that answers questions like these? I mean the handbook is great for general config. questions, but I'm more interested in server farm management and maintenance. Thank you very much in advance for any help. Hopefully I won't have many more stupid questions. -Mike From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 00:01:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D8B16A428 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:01:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jsimola@gmail.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A93143D45 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:01:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jsimola@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so518621wra for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:01:50 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=NlCsL+vuuhcD4aaYirPHRjg5vToLLc2GiAbqZPsBmTLMyERnvcN9PnBaln1y+66777511cKsqDhLIHF9/ajtMUBrtthfFtIYMJXRUUR+ZAlcMDRTS79iLLpxXed8piX+0edGLb7stMULUAq415MY7YS/Nw6p69iPwInFm5poAOA= Received: by 10.65.239.15 with SMTP id q15mr1355438qbr; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:01:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.154.20 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:01:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8eea04080601121601y3b534c71y322e20c1f6c32e73@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:01:49 -0800 From: Jon Simola Sender: jsimola@gmail.com To: "mike@lanline.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: management X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:01:52 -0000 On 1/12/06, mike@lanline.com wrote: > > Hi all, > > Sorry, I know I've asked a question similar to this in the past, > but... I am currently in the process of migrating from BSD/OS to > FreeBSD. I went through that exact migration years ago, and am currently moving from FreeBSD to OpenBSD site-wide. > I'm very concerned with the management of my new FreeBSD server > farm. There doesn't seem to be much documentation in the way of large > scale FreeBSD management. Probably the lack of documentation is due to experience being more of an issue at that level. I, or anyone, could write about how things are done, but I cannot write out 8 years of sysadmin experience. I've had enough of a problem training a Jr like that, there's just too much "stuff" that involves experience. Quick example, Jr and the NetworkAdmin moved an IP from one server to another, and could not get it to work. They debugged it to the point that they found the switch was still pushing packets to the old MAC address. I told them the easiest fix was to poision the MAC cache on the switch by publishing the new IP's MAC on the old server (fixed problem immediately), and then I proceeded to find out why the Network guy had the ARP cache on the switch set to 1800 seconds. What boggles me is that management here wants me to write the mythical book you're talking about. In a "Choose Your Own Adventure" format, so that the janitor could fix the NFS mail store crash after a spammer injected 4 million copies of an adult-themed video into the queues. > I posted a question recently about upgrades > (having one server w/ the source and NFS mounting the source dirs to all > the other machines and building that way), but I feel like some minor > details are missing. Like, can I or should I redirect the obj code to a > directory on the local machine so I don't have to do a make clean as I go > from server to server (and if so, can I do this through make.conf)? If the machines are all similar (at least the same architecture) then you can run a build server for 'make buildworld' and 'make buildkernel', then NFS mount /usr/obj and /usr/src on each machine in the farm for the 'make installkernel' and 'make installworld'. I've done that myself a few times, mostly for keeping older hardware in service. > Same thing with ports. 'make package' on your buildserver, and then install the packages. What I'm doing now is all my machines have a common NFS mounted /usr and /var/db/pkg so installing a port/package on any one of them means they all have the package installed. Were I writing a document on large site deployments, I would highly advise against doing this for a lot of reasons, mostly because a single screwup becomes a screwup on every machine. But it it something that, in *my* experience and in *my* particular setup saves me a lot of time. > anything (e.g. can I force the binary to get installed in a certain dir?) A man page or reading docs will tell you how to change the install path, but they generally don't cover the wisdom or reasons why changing the default is good/bad. > I know I could look in the makefiles and stuff, but I really don't have > that kind of time (damn sys. admining) man 7 ports > Is there some documentation or > something I don't know about that answers questions like these? There's a lot in the man pages. > I mean > the handbook is great for general config. questions, but I'm more > interested in server farm management and maintenance. Experience has been my best teacher. FreeBSD or any other operating system is just that, an operating system on a single machine. You may be interested in SAGE ( http://www.sage.org ) and their resources. Hopefully this helps somewhat. At the least, you got the advice you paid fo= r :) -- Jon Simola Systems Administrator ABC Communications From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 05:51:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D7616A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 05:51:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B070043D45 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 05:51:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D64BAD; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:51:46 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 6251B61C21; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:51:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:51:45 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: mike@lanline.com Message-ID: <20060113055145.GD20029@over-yonder.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: management X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 05:51:48 -0000 On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 05:49:32PM -0500 I heard the voice of mike@lanline.com, and lo! it spake thus: > > I posted a question recently about upgrades (having one server w/ > the source and NFS mounting the source dirs to all the other > machines and building that way), but I feel like some minor details > are missing. Like, can I or should I redirect the obj code to a > directory on the local machine so I don't have to do a make clean as > I go from server to server (and if so, can I do this through > make.conf)? Well, if the machines are all roughly the same architecture-wise, you don't need to do any cleaning; just do the buildworld/buildkernel on one machine, and the installworld/installkernel individually on each (you could even build different kernels for each machine if you wanted, with a little scripting to make it easier on your fingers). If they were different archs, you'd probably want to just share /usr/src and leave /usr/obj locally on the other machines. > Same thing with ports. I've NFS-shared /usr/ports before. You have to either be careful to build only on one machine at a time and always `make clean`, or set a local $WRKDIRPREFIX. I tend to go for the former most of the time, just 'cuz it's easier. Particularly when you're dealing with smaller (<15 machines, say) situations, and you're the only one doing admin-type stuff, simple can often be better than exhaustively-robust. > Also, I know about portupgrade, but is that the best way to manage > ports? I managed ports for years without portupgrade. I'm told the scars heal eventually, though. There are some other tools that do similar things (portmanager is one, I believe); I've been pretty happy with portupgrade in general. It's no substitute for understanding ports a bit to solve occasional edge cases, but very handy. > [ports] but there doesn't seem to be any documentation about what > variables can be set or anything (e.g. can I force the binary to get > installed in a certain dir?) I know I could look in the makefiles > and stuff, but I really don't have See some vars like PREFIX and LOCALBASE and X11BASE. There's a lot of documentation of various variables in comments at the top of /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk; a lot of them are mostly variables you'd use in writing/editing a port, but it covers things like PREFIX that you might set on the command-line when installing. Usually, I've found it best to leave those sort of things alone in most cases. The more you customize, the more you end up HAVING to customize, until it all blows up at 3am. > I mean the handbook is great for general config. questions, but I'm > more interested in server farm management and maintenance. A lot of it is just general admin experience (i.e., not FreeBSD specific). It's hard to distill one person's experience into an email (or a 5-volume reference manual, for that matter). It's often relatively easy to give at least some advice on a specific question, but trying to handwave an entire gestalt of admin philosophy is impossible. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 06:06:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008D616A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:06:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C29F43D46 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:06:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF20AD; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:06:48 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 3164F61C21; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:06:48 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:06:48 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Jon Simola Message-ID: <20060113060648.GE20029@over-yonder.net> References: <8eea04080601121601y3b534c71y322e20c1f6c32e73@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8eea04080601121601y3b534c71y322e20c1f6c32e73@mail.gmail.com> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, "mike@lanline.com" Subject: Re: management X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:06:50 -0000 On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 04:01:49PM -0800 I heard the voice of Jon Simola, and lo! it spake thus: As with most such things, this all boils down to "what works for you right now in your specific case." But, just for the sake of dialogue... > What I'm doing now is all my machines have a common NFS mounted /usr > and /var/db/pkg so installing a port/package on any one of them > means they all have the package installed. I would tend toward instead using rsync/rdist to manage /usr from a central location, and leave it on local disks. It saves having your whole network die when your NFS server goes down, and is also a lot faster. Plus, it lets you more easily maintain individual machine configs in /usr/local/etc, and handle some things (PostgreSQL comes to mind) which write their running data under /usr/local. > But it it something that, in *my* experience and in *my* particular > setup saves me a lot of time. Which is pretty much what it all boils down to; EVERY situation is unique in some way, and every person finds a slightly different layout works for them. Heck, I did upgrades from source on running, important servers, directly from 2.2.8-S to a 4.3 or 4.4-ish era 4-S; I certainly wouldn't recommend THAT to anybody who could stay out of a mental institution, but It Worked For Me(tm). -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 06:11:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E4E16A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:11:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mike@lanline.com) Received: from mail.lanline.com (mail.lanline.com [216.187.0.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65AC543D45 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:11:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mike@lanline.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by mail.lanline.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id k0D6Bfc09350 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:11:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:11:41 -0500 (EST) From: To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: management X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:11:43 -0000 sorry, just to be a little more specific. when i say i'm looking for server farm management stuff, i just mean freebsd specific stuff. i'm not a new admin, i just have to do a migration fairly quickly and i'm trying to get a feel for the best way to handle patches and upgrades for freebsd in this type of environment. as you already know freebsd's upgrade and patch system is fairly unique among the *nix's. this last e-mail was helpful with the info. about some of the customizable variables and such. thanks and don't go crazy, just what ever you guys suggest, then i'll pick what seems best for my setup. -mike Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:51:45 -0600 From: Matthew D. Fuller To: mike@lanline.com Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: management On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 05:49:32PM -0500 I heard the voice of mike@lanline.com, and lo! it spake thus: > > I posted a question recently about upgrades (having one server w/ > the source and NFS mounting the source dirs to all the other > machines and building that way), but I feel like some minor details > are missing. Like, can I or should I redirect the obj code to a > directory on the local machine so I don't have to do a make clean as > I go from server to server (and if so, can I do this through > make.conf)? Well, if the machines are all roughly the same architecture-wise, you don't need to do any cleaning; just do the buildworld/buildkernel on one machine, and the installworld/installkernel individually on each (you could even build different kernels for each machine if you wanted, with a little scripting to make it easier on your fingers). If they were different archs, you'd probably want to just share /usr/src and leave /usr/obj locally on the other machines. > Same thing with ports. I've NFS-shared /usr/ports before. You have to either be careful to build only on one machine at a time and always `make clean`, or set a local $WRKDIRPREFIX. I tend to go for the former most of the time, just 'cuz it's easier. Particularly when you're dealing with smaller (<15 machines, say) situations, and you're the only one doing admin-type stuff, simple can often be better than exhaustively-robust. > Also, I know about portupgrade, but is that the best way to manage > ports? I managed ports for years without portupgrade. I'm told the scars heal eventually, though. There are some other tools that do similar things (portmanager is one, I believe); I've been pretty happy with portupgrade in general. It's no substitute for understanding ports a bit to solve occasional edge cases, but very handy. > [ports] but there doesn't seem to be any documentation about what > variables can be set or anything (e.g. can I force the binary to get > installed in a certain dir?) I know I could look in the makefiles > and stuff, but I really don't have See some vars like PREFIX and LOCALBASE and X11BASE. There's a lot of documentation of various variables in comments at the top of /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk; a lot of them are mostly variables you'd use in writing/editing a port, but it covers things like PREFIX that you might set on the command-line when installing. Usually, I've found it best to leave those sort of things alone in most cases. The more you customize, the more you end up HAVING to customize, until it all blows up at 3am. > I mean the handbook is great for general config. questions, but I'm > more interested in server farm management and maintenance. A lot of it is just general admin experience (i.e., not FreeBSD specific). It's hard to distill one person's experience into an email (or a 5-volume reference manual, for that matter). It's often relatively easy to give at least some advice on a specific question, but trying to handwave an entire gestalt of admin philosophy is impossible. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 10:03:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D42516A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:03:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shulik_freebsd@matrixhome.net) Received: from mail.donec.net (ns.donec.net [193.108.38.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A99F43D4C for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:03:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shulik_freebsd@matrixhome.net) Received: from [192.168.133.9] (proxy.donec.net [193.108.38.2]) by mail.donec.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64B9187460 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:02:48 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <43C77B07.9060708@matrixhome.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:03:51 +0200 From: Alexander User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051017) X-Accept-Language: ru-ru, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:03:16 -0000 Hi2all! Sorry, if my english is no good! I am ISP admin. All my server work under Linux, but I want to try for this function FreeBSD. Once I used server under FreeBSD 5.3. Now I testing FreeBSD 6.0. I liked functions such as dummy net, simple configuring, etc. But in FreeBSD I don't have alternative FileSystems exclude UFS and UFS2. On high-loaded FileServer is good idea to use XFS or ReiserFS, but this FS don't supported as well as in Linux. How I can to solve this problem? From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 10:50:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B9F16A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:50:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from patrik.forsberg@dataphone.net) Received: from exhsto1.se.dataphone.com (exhsto1.se.dataphone.com [212.37.6.239]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C21B43D48 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:50:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from patrik.forsberg@dataphone.net) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:49:28 +0100 Message-ID: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: FreeBSD as Server Thread-Index: AcYYKUSxfcQsrFK9Qy6/q5Bfe7co3QABPOsA From: "Patrik Forsberg" To: "Alexander" , Cc: Subject: RE: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:50:33 -0000 > I am ISP admin. All my server work under Linux, but I want to try for=20 > this function FreeBSD. Once I used server under FreeBSD 5.3. Now I=20 > testing FreeBSD 6.0. > I liked functions such as dummy net, simple configuring, etc. But in=20 > FreeBSD I don't have alternative FileSystems exclude UFS and UFS2. On=20 > high-loaded FileServer is good idea to use XFS or ReiserFS,=20 > but this FS=20 > don't supported as well as in Linux. How I can to solve this problem? UFS2 scales very well on a havy loaded server so I see no reason to use RaiserFS or any other FS in FreeBSD ? I've ran, and is about to do so, a major newfeed machine, which use alot of disk i/o, on UFS2 without any trouble. With softupdate in UFS2 the fsck in case of a crash is very time limited. As for XFS and ReiserFS support you do have the support in ports: Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/progsreiserfs Info: Utilities and library to manipulate ReiserFS partitions Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/xfsprogs Info: A set of utilities and library to manipulate an xfs filesystem I've never used them tho. Regards, Patrik From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 12:48:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A2616A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:48:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from mh2.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248C143D49 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:48:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from [10.177.171.220] (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by mh2.centtech.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k0DCmDHI016346; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:48:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:48:13 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060112) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrik Forsberg References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> In-Reply-To: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1239/Thu Jan 12 05:36:22 2006 on mh2.centtech.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Alexander Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:48:19 -0000 Patrik Forsberg wrote: >> I am ISP admin. All my server work under Linux, but I want to try for >> this function FreeBSD. Once I used server under FreeBSD 5.3. Now I >> testing FreeBSD 6.0. >> I liked functions such as dummy net, simple configuring, etc. But in >> FreeBSD I don't have alternative FileSystems exclude UFS and UFS2. On >> high-loaded FileServer is good idea to use XFS or ReiserFS, >> but this FS >> don't supported as well as in Linux. How I can to solve this problem? >> > > UFS2 scales very well on a havy loaded server so I see no reason to use > RaiserFS or any other FS in FreeBSD ? > One good reason, would be journaling, but that isn't necessarily compelling. > I've ran, and is about to do so, a major newfeed machine, which use alot > of disk i/o, on UFS2 without any trouble. > With softupdate in UFS2 the fsck in case of a crash is very time > limited. > I don't believe softupdates changes the recovery time any significant amount, but it does ensure meta-data consistency. With background fsck, your startup time can be reduced, which is very nice. > As for XFS and ReiserFS support you do have the support in ports: > > Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/progsreiserfs > Info: Utilities and library to manipulate ReiserFS partitions > > Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/xfsprogs > Info: A set of utilities and library to manipulate an xfs filesystem Note that those are read-only support. I have many FreeBSD servers here, that are *VERY HEAVILY* used, and the entire company depends on them. I have 100's of GB's to tens of TB's hosted on FreeBSD servers, and I'm very happy to say it performs incredibly well, and is very stable. Both 5.4(STABLE) and 6-STABLE are very solid for serving. One thing to be warned about - the larger the single filesystem, the more memory you will need for fsck's. Actually, it's more dependant on number of files, but the relationship is there. Full 2Tb filesystems (for me) require about 2.5GB of memory available for fsck use, YMMV. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Sr. Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 12:58:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76EC516A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:58:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from patrik.forsberg@dataphone.net) Received: from exhsto1.se.dataphone.com (exhsto1.se.dataphone.com [212.37.6.239]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC19743D46 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:58:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from patrik.forsberg@dataphone.net) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:58:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Message-ID: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4D1@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: FreeBSD as Server Thread-Index: AcYYP6aiCZOA699pSFK+CX7dHgvXPQAAIKKg From: "Patrik Forsberg" To: "Eric Anderson" Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Alexander Subject: RE: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:58:15 -0000 > > UFS2 scales very well on a havy loaded server so I see no=20 > reason to use > > RaiserFS or any other FS in FreeBSD ? >=20 > One good reason, would be journaling, but that isn't=20 > necessarily compelling. true, true! But aint GEOM journalling coming ? and I saw something about UFS2-journalling(something like ext3) too ? but those are both in development so.. still a no-go. > > I've ran, and is about to do so, a major newfeed machine,=20 > which use alot > > of disk i/o, on UFS2 without any trouble. > > With softupdate in UFS2 the fsck in case of a crash is very time > > limited. >=20 > I don't believe softupdates changes the recovery time any significant=20 > amount, but it does ensure meta-data consistency. With=20 > background fsck,=20 > your startup time can be reduced, which is very nice. Ah.. yes, but with background fsck you atleast get the system online quicker then with single-user fsck which can take hours on huge slices/partitions, altho the system might be alot slower then usual atleast the services are running. Newfeed(inn) got real grumpy when the background fsck were running on its spool disks :> > > As for XFS and ReiserFS support you do have the support in ports: > > > > Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/progsreiserfs > > Info: Utilities and library to manipulate ReiserFS partitions > > > > Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/xfsprogs > > Info: A set of utilities and library to manipulate an xfs=20 > filesystem >=20 > Note that those are read-only support. Ah.. figures! (I did say I havent used them!) > I have many FreeBSD servers here, that are *VERY HEAVILY*=20 > used, and the=20 > entire company depends on them. I have 100's of GB's to tens of TB's=20 > hosted on FreeBSD servers, and I'm very happy to say it performs=20 > incredibly well, and is very stable. Both 5.4(STABLE) and=20 > 6-STABLE are=20 > very solid for serving. Same same. Most of our hosting and colocation servers that run a *nix type system are FreeBSD and they all do there job very well. > One thing to be warned about - the larger the single filesystem, the=20 > more memory you will need for fsck's. Actually, it's more=20 > dependant on=20 > number of files, but the relationship is there. Full 2Tb filesystems=20 > (for me) require about 2.5GB of memory available for fsck use, YMMV. True! Altho with 2Tb FS you probably want alot of MEM anyways, just to keep the system happy and responsive. Altho over 4G on a 32bit system is a no-no, alteast in SMP systems. //Patrik From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 13:04:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A99C16A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:04:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from mh1.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182D543D45 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:04:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from [10.177.171.220] (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by mh1.centtech.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k0DD41qg002181; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:04:01 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <43C7A542.6080303@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:04:02 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060112) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrik Forsberg References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4D1@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> In-Reply-To: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4D1@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1239/Thu Jan 12 05:36:22 2006 on mh1.centtech.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Alexander Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:04:07 -0000 Patrik Forsberg wrote: >>> UFS2 scales very well on a havy loaded server so I see no >>> >> reason to use >> >>> RaiserFS or any other FS in FreeBSD ? >>> >> One good reason, would be journaling, but that isn't >> necessarily compelling. >> > > true, true! > But aint GEOM journalling coming ? and I saw something about > UFS2-journalling(something like ext3) too ? but those are both in > development so.. still a no-go. > Yes, ufs2-journaling is being worked on by Scott Long and a SoC developer, but I think the project is stalled, not 100% certain on that though. gjournal, at least the original implementation, does not stop you from having to fsck - it is there merely as a means to roll-back block changes, but ignores the filesystem. While handy and interesting, not useful for filesystem consistency. Now, I've heard that it is being re-implemented, and may provide different features. >>> I've ran, and is about to do so, a major newfeed machine, >>> >> which use alot >> >>> of disk i/o, on UFS2 without any trouble. >>> With softupdate in UFS2 the fsck in case of a crash is very time >>> limited. >>> >> I don't believe softupdates changes the recovery time any significant >> amount, but it does ensure meta-data consistency. With >> background fsck, >> your startup time can be reduced, which is very nice. >> > > Ah.. yes, but with background fsck you atleast get the system online > quicker then with single-user fsck which can take hours on huge > slices/partitions, altho the system might be alot slower then usual > atleast the services are running. > Newfeed(inn) got real grumpy when the background fsck were running on > its spool disks :> > Yea, for me, I want the service online, even if it is slow. For me, slow means work continues, and systems keep running - offline means $$. >>> As for XFS and ReiserFS support you do have the support in ports: >>> >>> Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/progsreiserfs >>> Info: Utilities and library to manipulate ReiserFS partitions >>> >>> Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/xfsprogs >>> Info: A set of utilities and library to manipulate an xfs >>> >> filesystem >> >> Note that those are read-only support. >> > > Ah.. figures! > (I did say I havent used them!) > > >> I have many FreeBSD servers here, that are *VERY HEAVILY* >> used, and the >> entire company depends on them. I have 100's of GB's to tens of TB's >> hosted on FreeBSD servers, and I'm very happy to say it performs >> incredibly well, and is very stable. Both 5.4(STABLE) and >> 6-STABLE are >> very solid for serving. >> > > Same same. Most of our hosting and colocation servers that run a *nix > type system are FreeBSD and they all do there job very well. > > >> One thing to be warned about - the larger the single filesystem, the >> more memory you will need for fsck's. Actually, it's more >> dependant on >> number of files, but the relationship is there. Full 2Tb filesystems >> (for me) require about 2.5GB of memory available for fsck use, YMMV. >> > > True! > Altho with 2Tb FS you probably want alot of MEM anyways, just to keep > the system happy and responsive. Altho over 4G on a 32bit system is a > no-no, alteast in SMP systems. Very true.. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Sr. Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 13:48:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A58B16A420 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:48:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shulik_freebsd@matrixhome.net) Received: from mail.donec.net (ns.donec.net [193.108.38.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C588C43D5D for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:48:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shulik_freebsd@matrixhome.net) Received: from [192.168.133.9] (proxy.donec.net [193.108.38.2]) by mail.donec.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3842E187092 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:48:48 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:50:00 +0200 From: Alexander User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051017) X-Accept-Language: ru-ru, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> In-Reply-To: <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:48:52 -0000 http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz - there is comparation of Linux FS. Now I try to configure ng_nat. I use example from man ng_nat. Clients machine can ping inet hosts, but nothing loaded by http or ftp or other tcp protocol. On server packet NATed by not real ip. On other server under Linux this packet again NATed by real ip. What can I do with this? Eric Anderson пишет: > Patrik Forsberg wrote: > >>> I am ISP admin. All my server work under Linux, but I want to try >>> for this function FreeBSD. Once I used server under FreeBSD 5.3. Now >>> I testing FreeBSD 6.0. >>> I liked functions such as dummy net, simple configuring, etc. But in >>> FreeBSD I don't have alternative FileSystems exclude UFS and UFS2. >>> On high-loaded FileServer is good idea to use XFS or ReiserFS, but >>> this FS don't supported as well as in Linux. How I can to solve this >>> problem? >> >> >> UFS2 scales very well on a havy loaded server so I see no reason to use >> RaiserFS or any other FS in FreeBSD ? > > > One good reason, would be journaling, but that isn't necessarily > compelling. > >> I've ran, and is about to do so, a major newfeed machine, which use alot >> of disk i/o, on UFS2 without any trouble. >> With softupdate in UFS2 the fsck in case of a crash is very time >> limited. > > > I don't believe softupdates changes the recovery time any significant > amount, but it does ensure meta-data consistency. With background > fsck, your startup time can be reduced, which is very nice. > >> As for XFS and ReiserFS support you do have the support in ports: >> >> Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/progsreiserfs >> Info: Utilities and library to manipulate ReiserFS partitions >> >> Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/xfsprogs >> Info: A set of utilities and library to manipulate an xfs filesystem > > > Note that those are read-only support. > > I have many FreeBSD servers here, that are *VERY HEAVILY* used, and > the entire company depends on them. I have 100's of GB's to tens of > TB's hosted on FreeBSD servers, and I'm very happy to say it performs > incredibly well, and is very stable. Both 5.4(STABLE) and 6-STABLE are > very solid for serving. > > One thing to be warned about - the larger the single filesystem, the > more memory you will need for fsck's. Actually, it's more dependant on > number of files, but the relationship is there. Full 2Tb filesystems > (for me) require about 2.5GB of memory available for fsck use, YMMV. > > Eric > > > > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 14:04:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F3816A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:04:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from christian.damm@diewebmaster.at) Received: from materva.diewebmaster.at (materva.diewebmaster.at [80.66.42.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D25343D46 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:04:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from christian.damm@diewebmaster.at) Received: from localhost (materva.diewebmaster.at [80.66.42.216]) by materva.diewebmaster.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545EBFBF239; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:06:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from materva.diewebmaster.at ([80.66.42.216]) by localhost (materva.diewebmaster.at [80.66.42.216]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 78575-07; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:06:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.14] (da.diewebmaster.at [192.168.1.14]) by materva.diewebmaster.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7FFFBF20A; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:06:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <43C7B308.9050109@diewebmaster.at> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:02:48 +0100 From: Christian Damm User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Windows/20051006) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> In-Reply-To: <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at diewebmaster.at Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Alexander Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:04:54 -0000 hi all! Eric Anderson schrieb: > Patrik Forsberg wrote: >>> I am ISP admin. All my server work under Linux, but I want to try for >>> this function FreeBSD. Once I used server under FreeBSD 5.3. Now I >>> testing FreeBSD 6.0. >>> I liked functions such as dummy net, simple configuring, etc. But in >>> FreeBSD I don't have alternative FileSystems exclude UFS and UFS2. On >>> high-loaded FileServer is good idea to use XFS or ReiserFS, but this >>> FS don't supported as well as in Linux. How I can to solve this problem? >>> >> >> UFS2 scales very well on a havy loaded server so I see no reason to use >> RaiserFS or any other FS in FreeBSD ? >> > > One good reason, would be journaling, but that isn't necessarily > compelling. > >> I've ran, and is about to do so, a major newfeed machine, which use alot >> of disk i/o, on UFS2 without any trouble. >> With softupdate in UFS2 the fsck in case of a crash is very time >> limited. >> > > I don't believe softupdates changes the recovery time any significant > amount, but it does ensure meta-data consistency. With background fsck, > your startup time can be reduced, which is very nice. > >> As for XFS and ReiserFS support you do have the support in ports: >> >> Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/progsreiserfs >> Info: Utilities and library to manipulate ReiserFS partitions >> >> Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/xfsprogs >> Info: A set of utilities and library to manipulate an xfs filesystem > > Note that those are read-only support. > > I have many FreeBSD servers here, that are *VERY HEAVILY* used, and the > entire company depends on them. I have 100's of GB's to tens of TB's > hosted on FreeBSD servers, and I'm very happy to say it performs > incredibly well, and is very stable. Both 5.4(STABLE) and 6-STABLE are > very solid for serving. > > One thing to be warned about - the larger the single filesystem, the > more memory you will need for fsck's. Actually, it's more dependant on > number of files, but the relationship is there. Full 2Tb filesystems > (for me) require about 2.5GB of memory available for fsck use, YMMV. i too have some machines with large file systems (around 2TB (some of them "only" have 512mb ram)) an never had any memory related fsck issues in years now...just curious, but what could (should?) happen without enough memory available during fsck?! slower fsck? > > Eric > > > > -- mfg. christian damm technische leitung phone: dw 42 email: christian.damm@diewebmaster.at icq at work: 124464652 die webmaster - flötzerweg 156 - 4030 linz - austria phone: +43-732-381242, fax: +43-732-381242-22, isdn (leonardo): +43-732-381242-33 homepage: www.diewebmaster.at, public email: office@diewebmaster.at From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 14:15:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF67216A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:15:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from mh2.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4399143D4C for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:15:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from [10.177.171.220] (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by mh2.centtech.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k0DEEvj8017400; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:14:57 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <43C7B5E2.7040502@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:14:58 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060112) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Damm References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B308.9050109@diewebmaster.at> In-Reply-To: <43C7B308.9050109@diewebmaster.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1239/Thu Jan 12 05:36:22 2006 on mh2.centtech.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Alexander Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:15:08 -0000 Christian Damm wrote: > > hi all! > > Eric Anderson schrieb: >> Patrik Forsberg wrote: >>>> I am ISP admin. All my server work under Linux, but I want to try >>>> for this function FreeBSD. Once I used server under FreeBSD 5.3. >>>> Now I testing FreeBSD 6.0. >>>> I liked functions such as dummy net, simple configuring, etc. But >>>> in FreeBSD I don't have alternative FileSystems exclude UFS and >>>> UFS2. On high-loaded FileServer is good idea to use XFS or >>>> ReiserFS, but this FS don't supported as well as in Linux. How I >>>> can to solve this problem? >>>> >>> >>> UFS2 scales very well on a havy loaded server so I see no reason to use >>> RaiserFS or any other FS in FreeBSD ? >>> >> >> One good reason, would be journaling, but that isn't necessarily >> compelling. >> >>> I've ran, and is about to do so, a major newfeed machine, which use >>> alot >>> of disk i/o, on UFS2 without any trouble. >>> With softupdate in UFS2 the fsck in case of a crash is very time >>> limited. >>> >> >> I don't believe softupdates changes the recovery time any significant >> amount, but it does ensure meta-data consistency. With background >> fsck, your startup time can be reduced, which is very nice. >> >>> As for XFS and ReiserFS support you do have the support in ports: >>> >>> Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/progsreiserfs >>> Info: Utilities and library to manipulate ReiserFS partitions >>> >>> Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/xfsprogs >>> Info: A set of utilities and library to manipulate an xfs filesystem >> >> Note that those are read-only support. >> >> I have many FreeBSD servers here, that are *VERY HEAVILY* used, and >> the entire company depends on them. I have 100's of GB's to tens of >> TB's hosted on FreeBSD servers, and I'm very happy to say it performs >> incredibly well, and is very stable. Both 5.4(STABLE) and 6-STABLE >> are very solid for serving. >> >> One thing to be warned about - the larger the single filesystem, the >> more memory you will need for fsck's. Actually, it's more dependant >> on number of files, but the relationship is there. Full 2Tb >> filesystems (for me) require about 2.5GB of memory available for fsck >> use, YMMV. > > i too have some machines with large file systems (around 2TB (some of > them "only" have 512mb ram)) an never had any memory related fsck > issues in years now...just curious, but what could (should?) happen > without enough memory available during fsck?! slower fsck? Like I mentioned before, it mostly depends on the number of files you have on the filesystem (inodes in use). Having a 2Tb filesystem with a single 2Tb file won't take much more memory than an empty 2Tb filesystem, whereas a 2tb filesystem that is only 10% full, but has tens of millions of inodes in use will take significantly more memory. If fsck can't alloc enough memory to fit the entire inode info in memory, it fails to complete the fsck, leaving you with a dirty filesystem that can't be cleaned. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Sr. Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 14:34:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AF116A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:34:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mark@gaiahost.coop) Received: from biodiesel.gaiahost.coop (biodiesel.gaiahost.coop [64.95.78.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B224E43D48 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:34:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mark@gaiahost.coop) Received: from localhost (host-64-65-195-19.spr.choiceone.net [::ffff:64.65.195.19]) (AUTH: LOGIN mark@hubcapconsulting.com) by biodiesel.gaiahost.coop with esmtp; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:34:42 -0500 id 003D0035.43C7BA83.00002027 Received: by localhost (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:34:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:34:39 -0500 From: Mark Bucciarelli To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060113143439.GG2740@rabbit> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B308.9050109@diewebmaster.at> <43C7B5E2.7040502@centtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43C7B5E2.7040502@centtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:34:44 -0000 On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 08:14:58AM -0600, Eric Anderson wrote: > Like I mentioned before, it mostly depends on the number of files you > have on the filesystem (inodes in use). And the kva_pages kernel setting, right? As I understand this setting, it defines how much of the 4GB pointer space you reserve for kernel pointers. I guess a 64 bit machine would be a safer choice for fscking such large file systems, especially if a maildir mailstore (lots of tiny files)? Trying to learn FreeBSD, m From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 15:27:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C7916A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:27:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3606F43D48 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:26:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5DB7C.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.219.124]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k0DFLCbt088505; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:21:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0DFQuFR083324; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:26:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:26:56 +0100 Message-ID: <20060113162656.zsrbwlolgk8w0sko@netchild.homeip.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:26:56 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: mike@lanline.com References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) / FreeBSD-4.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: management X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:27:06 -0000 mike@lanline.com wrote: Answering to some of the questions where I haven't seen an answer to yet... > details are missing. Like, can I or should I redirect the obj code to a > directory on the local machine so I don't have to do a make clean as I go > from server to server (and if so, can I do this through make.conf)? Same There was an implicit answer, but no helpful pointer. The obj code will go to another directory by default (/usr/obj), but it can be redirected to another location. Have a look at build(7) manual page. > thing with ports. Also, I know about portupgrade, but is that the best way > to manage ports? Is there something better? And the port system > itself... I know it's supposed to provide all this flexibility, but there > doesn't seem to be any documentation about what variables can be set or > anything (e.g. can I force the binary to get installed in a certain dir?) To force the install of a particular port into a certain dir you can use the PREFIX variable. But you have to take care of changes then (e.g. adding the directory to your PATH), and this location isn't picked up by portupgrade automatically, you have to tech portupgrade manually about it. For more about the variables and possibilities have a look at the ports(7) manual page. > I know I could look in the makefiles and stuff, but I really don't have > that kind of time (damn sys. admining) Is there some documentation or > something I don't know about that answers questions like these? I mean > the handbook is great for general config. questions, but I'm more > interested in server farm management and maintenance. Try "apropos ", it may come up with something (like it does for ports and build). Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 Indifference will certainly be the downfall of mankind, but who cares? From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 15:35:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7536616A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:35:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34A843D46 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:35:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5DB7C.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.219.124]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k0DFTfxS088545; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:29:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0DFZQn5084868; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:35:26 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:35:25 +0100 Message-ID: <20060113163525.nkluhr8fwg8k0oc0@netchild.homeip.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:35:25 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Alexander References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> In-Reply-To: <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) / FreeBSD-4.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:35:29 -0000 Alexander wrote: > http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz - there is comparation > of Linux FS. Since this doesn't cover the FreeBSD implementations of UFS or UFS2, this doesn't say anything about the reasons why you want to use a different FS on FreeBSD. Bye, Alexander (another one...). -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 Force has no place where there is need of skill. -- Herodotus From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 19:15:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2D616A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:15:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ericx_lists@vineyard.net) Received: from vineyard.net (k1.vineyard.net [204.17.195.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1988B43D45 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:15:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ericx_lists@vineyard.net) Received: from localhost (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by vineyard.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D859E9162C; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from vineyard.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (king1.vineyard.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 62835-01-49; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.17.195.104] (fortiva.vineyard.net [204.17.195.104]) by vineyard.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5D29162B; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:15:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <43C7FC35.9000806@vineyard.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:15:01 -0500 From: "Eric W. Bates" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mike@lanline.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-king1 at Vineyard.NET Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: management X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:15:24 -0000 mike@lanline.com wrote: > Hi all, > > Sorry, I know I've asked a question similar to this in the past, > but... I am currently in the process of migrating from BSD/OS to > FreeBSD. I'm very concerned with the management of my new FreeBSD server > farm. There doesn't seem to be much documentation in the way of large > scale FreeBSD management. I posted a question recently about upgrades > (having one server w/ the source and NFS mounting the source dirs to all > the other machines and building that way), but I feel like some minor > details are missing. Like, can I or should I redirect the obj code to a > directory on the local machine so I don't have to do a make clean as I go > from server to server (and if so, can I do this through make.conf)? Same > thing with ports. Also, I know about portupgrade, but is that the best way > to manage ports? Is there something better? And the port system > itself... I know it's supposed to provide all this flexibility, but there > doesn't seem to be any documentation about what variables can be set or > anything (e.g. can I force the binary to get installed in a certain dir?) You can tweak individual ports to build with separate rules. If you simply set a flag in /etc/make.conf, the flag is read by every port (and the system build for that matter). This can sometimes be a problem if (for example) you want to build sasl with ldap support and ldap with sasl support. If you are consistent about using portupgrade, there is a ruby struct to do this in /usr/local/etc/pkgtools.conf : MAKE_ARGS = { 'net/openldap*' => 'WITH_SASL=1', 'www/mod_php4' => 'BATCH=1', 'lang/php4' => 'BATCH=1', } If you think there is some reason why you can't or won't always use portupgrade, there is an undocumented technique I use. The file /usr/Makefile.inc (which doesn't normally exist) is sourced by the port build process after the make variable PORTNAME is defined. /usr/Makefile.inc # -*- makefile -*- # $Id: Makefile.inc,v 1.2 2002/08/28 15:51:12 ericx Exp $ # file is loaded up via what may be an oddity in the Mk configuration # files in /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk AFTER all the variables are set # in the various Makefiles. Unlike /etc/make.conf, this gives an # opportunity to override settings in port Makefiles. .if exists(/etc/make.conf.vni) # But the file exists, pull it in. .include .endif Then in /etc/make.conf.vni I have the per-port flags: # -*- makefile -*- # File: make.conf.vni # Author: Charlie Root, ericx@vineyard.net # Date: Wed Aug 28 12:46:05 2002 # Time-stamp: <2005-07-13 10:18:55 ericx> # Description: Setting variable in /etc/make.conf is not optimal # because those variables are read very early in the # compilation process and anything can be overridden in # the various Makefiles embedded in the ports # system. Nor can variables in /etc/make.conf be set on # a per-port basis, because at the time it is read # ${PORTNAME} has not been set. # # This file is read in at the END of makes parsing phase # after all other Makefiles have been # included. Conditional variables can be can be set # based on ${PORTNAME} and decisions made by the port's # maintainer can be overridden. # # See also: /etc/make.conf, /usr/Makfile.inc, /usr/ports/Mk # # $Id: make.conf.vni,v 1.14 2005/06/29 21:08:43 theqblas Exp ericx $ # ${PORTNAME} should be defined whenever we are building a port, but # not when we are building world; so enclose all our per port # conditionals inside a single check for PORTNAME. .if defined(PORTNAME) .if ${PORTNAME} == apache+mod_ssl CONFIGURE_ARGS+= --server-uid=http \ --server-gid=http \ --disable-rule=EXPAT # apache+mod_ssl .endif # PORTNAME .endif > I know I could look in the makefiles and stuff, but I really don't have > that kind of time (damn sys. admining) Is there some documentation or > something I don't know about that answers questions like these? I mean > the handbook is great for general config. questions, but I'm more > interested in server farm management and maintenance. > > Thank you very much in advance for any help. > Hopefully I won't have many more stupid questions. > > -Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 13 20:09:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AC616A41F for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:09:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jsimola@gmail.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.200]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D53D43D46 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:09:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jsimola@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so722149wra for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:50 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=EDlKGeDtIUkculJNs3Idx6RygZXlWXYX9xZ0vBbn4iRnFQNak88fGwGuTm0WbC9ARNjWAZN0FzYkVPt8kIw7xP/J0qeOOFzTZroh5Tco42SqXCqiKXmqTh55CIwQEc/5gUDjpBrKMucdC9DEyOlgXTxbSFSPtxVrLnNIku8kN1Y= Received: by 10.65.211.7 with SMTP id n7mr2135889qbq; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.154.20 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8eea04080601131209q46b739d8g77215740e835bb7c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:50 -0800 From: Jon Simola Sender: jsimola@gmail.com To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20060113060648.GE20029@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <8eea04080601121601y3b534c71y322e20c1f6c32e73@mail.gmail.com> <20060113060648.GE20029@over-yonder.net> Subject: Re: management X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:09:51 -0000 On 1/12/06, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > What I'm doing now is all my machines have a common NFS mounted /usr > > and /var/db/pkg so installing a port/package on any one of them > > means they all have the package installed. > > I would tend toward instead using rsync/rdist to manage /usr from a > central location, and leave it on local disks. It saves having your > whole network die when your NFS server goes down, and is also a lot > faster. Yes, I would agree completely. This setup was made with some specific choices in mind, based on the OS (OpenBSD), the running services (qmail and friends), and the requirement that adding new servers to the cluster require minimal knowledge (at the expense of other things). > Plus, it lets you more easily maintain individual machine > configs in /usr/local/etc, and handle some things (PostgreSQL comes to > mind) which write their running data under /usr/local. Yep. On these machines, I have local filesystems for a backup root (OpenBSD config is all contained in /etc), /var (DB and logs) and /queue (mail queue). > Which is pretty much what it all boils down to; EVERY situation is > unique in some way, and every person finds a slightly different layout > works for them. Yes, and a good admin can tell you why certain choices were made and is able to debate the issue from all sides, much as choosing between Linux and Free/Open/NetBSD, or ipfw and PF, or ... In the few months I've been working on this cluster, I've still learned things that make me want to go back and redo the entire setup (the near-zero config I mentioned above in particular). The new design (running on basically the same hardware) increased our mail processing ability by at least 2 orders of magnitude, so that I have a single frontend mail server that's 95% idle instead of a pair of heavily loaded servers. Makes the zero-config not as high a concern. Anyways, now that I've rambled on too much, the point is agreed. You never stop learning, and there's too much knowledge based on experience that cannot be distilled into a book. And even so, many times what is printed in books is known to not be best practice (eg, Cisco's subnet zero). -- Jon Simola Systems Administrator ABC Communications From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 14 07:28:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6709C16A41F for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 07:28:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shulik_freebsd@matrixhome.net) Received: from mail.donec.net (ns.donec.net [193.108.38.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FA343D45 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 07:28:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shulik_freebsd@matrixhome.net) Received: from [192.168.133.9] (proxy.donec.net [193.108.38.2]) by mail.donec.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83171878CA; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:28:36 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <43C8A873.8000900@matrixhome.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:29:55 +0200 From: Alexander User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051017) X-Accept-Language: ru-ru, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Leidinger References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> <20060113163525.nkluhr8fwg8k0oc0@netchild.homeip.net> In-Reply-To: <20060113163525.nkluhr8fwg8k0oc0@netchild.homeip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 07:28:38 -0000 Alexander Leidinger ÐÉÛÅÔ: > Alexander wrote: > >> http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz - there is comparation >> of Linux FS. > > > Since this doesn't cover the FreeBSD implementations of UFS or UFS2, this > doesn't say anything about the reasons why you want to use a different > FS on > FreeBSD. So. Ext2/Ext3 is only modification of UFS and UFS is modification of S5FS. That's why I don't think, that UFS or UFS2 work better than ext2/ext3. But XFS and Reiser has big advantage. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 14 12:19:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF8916A420 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:19:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from mh1.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01EF43D48 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:19:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from [192.168.42.25] ([192.168.42.25]) by mh1.centtech.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k0ECJ51k021730; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 06:19:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <43C8EC39.6080708@centtech.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 06:19:05 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060112) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> <20060113163525.nkluhr8fwg8k0oc0@netchild.homeip.net> <43C8A873.8000900@matrixhome.net> In-Reply-To: <43C8A873.8000900@matrixhome.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1241/Sat Jan 14 04:00:03 2006 on mh1.centtech.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:19:11 -0000 Alexander wrote: > Alexander Leidinger ÐÉÛÅÔ: > >> Alexander wrote: >> >>> http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz - there is comparation >>> of Linux FS. >> >> >> Since this doesn't cover the FreeBSD implementations of UFS or UFS2, >> this >> doesn't say anything about the reasons why you want to use a >> different FS on >> FreeBSD. > > So. Ext2/Ext3 is only modification of UFS and UFS is modification of > S5FS. That's why I don't think, that UFS or UFS2 work better than > ext2/ext3. But XFS and Reiser has big advantage. I think these are gross generalizations, and not very true at all. They are all different in their own right, and all have different performance charactoristics. If you feel ext3 would be better suited to your needs, feel free to complete the ext2 port to ext3 for FreeBSD, I'm sure lots of people would enjoy it. Better yet, finish the write portion of XFS. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Sr. Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 14 13:14:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61EA416A41F for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:14:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from b.candler@pobox.com) Received: from thorn.pobox.com (thorn.pobox.com [208.210.124.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E245943D55 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:14:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from b.candler@pobox.com) Received: from thorn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thorn.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE481AB; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mappit.local.linnet.org (212-74-113-67.static.dsl.as9105.com [212.74.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by thorn.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6E6194C; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:14:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from lists by mappit.local.linnet.org with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ExlEi-0001OU-04; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:14:28 +0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:14:27 +0000 From: Brian Candler To: Alexander Message-ID: <20060114131427.GA5349@uk.tiscali.com> References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:14:32 -0000 On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 03:50:00PM +0200, Alexander wrote: > Now I try to configure ng_nat. I use example from man ng_nat. Clients > machine can ping inet hosts, but nothing loaded by http or ftp or other > tcp protocol. On server packet NATed by not real ip. On other server > under Linux this packet again NATed by real ip. What can I do with this? Probably easier to use one of the other firewalling techniques to do NAT rather than manually configure ng_nat. Your other options are: - ipfw + natd (old and venerable) - ipf - pf My personal favourite is pf (which came from OpenBSD). Configuring NAT is just one line in /etc/pf.conf. Regards, Brian. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 14 14:43:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9930316A41F for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:43:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bob@buckhorn.net) Received: from whitehall.lin-tech.net (whitehall.lin-tech.net [66.118.35.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC5D43D49 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:43:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bob@buckhorn.net) Received: from mail.buckhorn.net (mail.buckhorn.net [66.118.63.40]) by whitehall.lin-tech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0887303B for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:43:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from [72.26.9.234] [72.26.9.234] by mail.buckhorn.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AD833CF0678; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:41:07 -0600 Message-ID: <43C90E2A.9040702@buckhorn.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:43:54 -0600 From: Bob Martin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20051108 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> <20060113163525.nkluhr8fwg8k0oc0@netchild.homeip.net> <43C8A873.8000900@matrixhome.net> In-Reply-To: <43C8A873.8000900@matrixhome.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at spamcontrol Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:43:43 -0000 EXT is based on the Minix file system. Ext2 was the brain child of Rémy Card, and has had a totally different development path than UFS. UFS was based on the Berkeley Fast File System. It dates back to the CSRG, and the infancy of UNIX. There are a number of books by Kirk McKusick on the subject. There have been tons of debates about UFS vs on the net over the years. YMMV, but if you want speed and stability, my money is on UFS2. The benchmark you referred to does not show things like recovery time or data loss after a catastrophic failure. I also noted that the benchmark was using an ATA133 IDE drive. Nothing wrong with that in itself, but it has long been my experience that the type of drive used is usually the root cause of I/O disk problem. You can't get fast performance with slow drives. File systems are tools, just like operating systems. One size does not fit all. You have to find the one that will work best for you. UFS and UFS2 have worked well for many, for a very long time. I think if you try it, you might find you're pleasantly surprised. Bob Martin Alexander wrote: > Alexander Leidinger пишет: > >> Alexander wrote: >> >>> http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz - there is comparation >>> of Linux FS. >> >> >> >> Since this doesn't cover the FreeBSD implementations of UFS or UFS2, this >> doesn't say anything about the reasons why you want to use a different >> FS on >> FreeBSD. > > > So. Ext2/Ext3 is only modification of UFS and UFS is modification of > S5FS. That's why I don't think, that UFS or UFS2 work better than > ext2/ext3. But XFS and Reiser has big advantage. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 14 15:30:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC1FB16A41F for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:30:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from wjv.com (fl-65-40-24-38.sta.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A1343D46 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:30:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k0EFUeEx043957; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:30:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1/Submit) id k0EFUTBm043956; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:30:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:30:29 -0500 From: Bill Vermillion To: Alexander Message-ID: <20060114153029.GA43731@wjv.com> References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> <20060113163525.nkluhr8fwg8k0oc0@netchild.homeip.net> <43C8A873.8000900@matrixhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43C8A873.8000900@matrixhome.net> Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, J_CHICKENPOX_22 autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on bilver.wjv.com Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bv@wjv.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:30:47 -0000 On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 09:29 , after knocking over a stack of dishes on the heat sink Alexander wondered out loud about: > Alexander Leidinger ?????: > > >Alexander wrote: > >>http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz - there is comparation > >>of Linux FS. > >Since this doesn't cover the FreeBSD implementations of UFS or > >UFS2, this doesn't say anything about the reasons why you want > >to use a different FS on FreeBSD. > So. Ext2/Ext3 is only modification of UFS and UFS is modification of > S5FS. That's why I don't think, that UFS or UFS2 work better than > ext2/ext3. But XFS and Reiser has big advantage. UFS is not a modification of S5FS - which were S51 and S52. Such concepts as cylinder groups and fragments were new ideas. Running both the S51 and an AFS [an Acer implementation of the BSD FFS[ on the same hard drive in about 1990, I saw performance increases of up to 10 times on the same hard drive. Having worked with S51 and S52 [the latter was AT&Ts idea on how to make things faster that in reality had marginal improvement] and the FFS variants they really aren't that similar. The way files are placed on the hard-drive in the FFS variants as opposed to the S5? variants also contributed to keep the drives working fast for a much longer time. In fact there were file system defragmenters built and sold for the S5? systems as the awkward and inefficient way they handled the free-list actually meant you needed to backup a file system, remake it, and restore as often as ever 6 months in the S51 systems. The brand name Unix vendors slowly adopted a lot of the FFS items from BSD as it was so much better. I've used XFS on Irix systems and for items that have a lot of large files or lots and lots of files in a single diretory, it's one of the best. To get a good idea of the S51 and FFS differences you should read Bach's book for SysV and books by Lefler, McKusick et all on BSD. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 14 15:59:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5A116A420 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:59:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shulik_freebsd@matrixhome.net) Received: from mail.donec.net (ns.donec.net [193.108.38.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 507C743D45 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:59:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shulik_freebsd@matrixhome.net) Received: from [192.168.133.9] (proxy.donec.net [193.108.38.2]) by mail.donec.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EDE7187E78; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:59:53 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <43C9204A.1020401@matrixhome.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:01:14 +0200 From: Alexander User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051017) X-Accept-Language: ru-ru, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Candler References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> <20060114131427.GA5349@uk.tiscali.com> In-Reply-To: <20060114131427.GA5349@uk.tiscali.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:59:58 -0000 I think, that ipfw is native for FreeBSD - it works better than other packet filters. Am I right? With ng_nat first trouble was in parameter of mpd - there is set bundle enable compression. Second trouble is next: in example I got next strings: ipfw add 300 netgraph.... any to any.... ipfw add 400 netgraph.... any to any..... In hook netgraph "out" I send only traffic from clients (in example was all traffic). In hook "in" I send all traffic from external interface. But I took a problem with network on server. ping works fine mtr doesn't work telnet don't work. But why? When traffic that not be NATed in ng_nat was sent in hook "in" - it must simply out from it? Or no? Where is trouble? Brian Candler пишет: >On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 03:50:00PM +0200, Alexander wrote: > > >>Now I try to configure ng_nat. I use example from man ng_nat. Clients >>machine can ping inet hosts, but nothing loaded by http or ftp or other >>tcp protocol. On server packet NATed by not real ip. On other server >>under Linux this packet again NATed by real ip. What can I do with this? >> >> > >Probably easier to use one of the other firewalling techniques to do NAT >rather than manually configure ng_nat. > >Your other options are: >- ipfw + natd (old and venerable) >- ipf >- pf > >My personal favourite is pf (which came from OpenBSD). Configuring NAT is >just one line in /etc/pf.conf. > >Regards, > >Brian. >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 14 20:38:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2FB16A422 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:38:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from b.candler@pobox.com) Received: from thorn.pobox.com (thorn.pobox.com [208.210.124.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6D543D46 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:38:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from b.candler@pobox.com) Received: from thorn (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thorn.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B12A5; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:38:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mappit.local.linnet.org (212-74-113-67.static.dsl.as9105.com [212.74.113.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by thorn.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE17298F; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:38:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from brian by mappit.local.linnet.org with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ExsAK-000K1p-AR; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:38:24 +0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:38:24 +0000 From: Brian Candler To: Alexander Message-ID: <20060114203823.GA56577@uk.tiscali.com> References: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A54C1D4B5@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> <43C7A18D.8060904@centtech.com> <43C7B008.8060404@matrixhome.net> <20060114131427.GA5349@uk.tiscali.com> <43C9204A.1020401@matrixhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43C9204A.1020401@matrixhome.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD as Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:38:30 -0000 On Sat, Jan 14, 2006 at 06:01:14PM +0200, Alexander wrote: > I think, that ipfw is native for FreeBSD - it works better than other > packet filters. Am I right? Not really. For NAT in particular, ipfw is pretty awful. You need an external daemon (natd) and have to route packets to and from it, which works fine if you have a very simple configuration (e.g. single external interface, basic NAT-everything-going-out or NAT all RFC1918 address space). More complex scenarios can be an utter nightmare to configure properly. It also has a long history, which means that the configuration syntax isn't always very clean because of backwards compatibility requirements. > When traffic that not be NATed in ng_nat was sent in hook "in" - it must > simply out from it? Or no? Where is trouble? I can't answer that. All I can say is, if you want NAT there is a very simple incantation you can put in /etc/rc.conf: pf_enable="YES" pflog_enable="YES" and in /etc/pf.conf: # replace interface name as appropriate ext_if="fxp0" nat on $ext_if from any to any -> ($ext_if) Start it like this: # /etc/rc.d/pf start # /etc/rc.d/pflog start It should Just Work[TM]. pf is loadable as a module, so you shouldn't even have to recompile your kernel. Regards, Brian.