From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 3 06:45:57 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6459E106564A for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 06:45:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FF18FC17 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 06:45:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qadz30 with SMTP id z30so1634894qad.13 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:45:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VA+lAHvnTr9IsgIPrHl/TOQ+OTyYOyHoZGq8CvFoE3g=; b=PFgZ8giMTGu1vvS0sJwio/dmXYWT32bCuJvXF8M4Sm3s3+WSbkJE+AL2gUVX2btu5i 5uZg0OtvNo9zRF33QZqom65gpaOLvZbQNPcypgTIxiHkDlgNSr1udc+cb5897sCPQ9yn p05oUEqOoznkK0IRy4LMZQiaRk7diItS+CqM4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.217.137 with SMTP id hm9mr10865176qab.124.1317624355872; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.74.82 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 23:45:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 23:45:55 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bsdinstall partition editor Handbook chapter X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 06:45:57 -0000 On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Warren Block wrote: >> >> A quick hack of just the bsdinstall chapter is temporarily at >> =A0http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/freebsd9/book.html > > Updated, and a quick apology to those who browsed and suddenly had it sto= p > responding... sorry about that, should be fixed now. Here is a link to the images: http://imageshack.us/g/710/050104parionereditormod.png/ Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 3 06:53:20 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35C4A106564A for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 06:53:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23218FC0C for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 06:53:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qadz30 with SMTP id z30so1637131qad.13 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:53:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XuoPMAolcNc/RqnjVSc3S0es8Rftm1DRLVX/l/XH5XE=; b=Geg+BDHFd28k/W3Xxmmub7To/NbhcBHA+nxMgZoOqr82ZprVQyPJoE/jhMuchHypy9 ipZNrdtfgsIuoa1drY93KOwlu6OUG6KUy/UaI2muj36ZgAu4JEjgRCAySIkgF2peLjaq FW2CgcrWsfeBLrTN+16Beiz/+cJDh3ObcHkBg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.202.10 with SMTP id fc10mr1353680qab.174.1317624799084; Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.74.82 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Oct 2011 23:53:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 23:53:19 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bsdinstall partition editor Handbook chapter X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 06:53:20 -0000 On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Warren Block wrote: >>> >>> A quick hack of just the bsdinstall chapter is temporarily at >>> =A0http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/freebsd9/book.html >> >> Updated, and a quick apology to those who browsed and suddenly had it st= op >> responding... sorry about that, should be fixed now. > > =A0 =A0Here is a link to the images: > http://imageshack.us/g/710/050104parionereditormod.png/ There are also more images here as well for the non-partitioner portion of the installer: http://imageshack.us/g/856/050109installmirrorsele.png/ , just in case. -Garrett From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 3 11:06:10 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD74F106566C for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:06:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE5D8FC0C for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:06:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p93B6AIt032989 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:06:10 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p93B6A7V032987 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:06:10 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:06:10 GMT Message-Id: <201110031106.p93B6A7V032987@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: FreeBSD doc list Cc: Subject: Current unassigned doc problem reports X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:06:10 -0000 (Note: an HTML version of this report is available at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?category=doc .) The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o docs/161057 doc Error in section 18.17.4 of the handbook o docs/160698 doc Remove outdated FreeBSD Jumpstart guide o docs/160696 doc style(9) should be mentioned in the devs' handbook o docs/160491 doc [patch] reaper of the dead: remove ancient FAQ entries o docs/160447 doc [handbook] Developer's Handbook contains some outdated o docs/160446 doc [handbook] Handbook sound setup seems outdated o docs/160445 doc [handbook] Handbook does not mention ACL o docs/160399 doc Man page for re(4) missing jumbo frames info o docs/160269 doc [patch] Handbook wireless section: sand off some rough o docs/159898 doc [patch] libusb.3 whitespace, markup, grammar fixes o docs/159897 doc [handbook] [patch] improve HAST section of Handbook o docs/159854 doc [patch] grammar updates for carp.4 o docs/159551 doc [patch] ports(7) makes no mention of LOCALBASE o docs/159307 doc [patch] lpd smm chapter unconditionally installed o docs/159298 doc [handbook] document Konqueror with Webkit support to i o docs/158813 doc [patch] grammar updates for jme(4) o docs/158388 doc Incorrect documentation of LOCAL_SCRIPT in release(7) o docs/158387 doc The tree(3) man should mention the RB_FOREACH_SAFE() A o docs/158378 doc cpio/bsdcpio(1) man page does not document -0 and --nu o docs/157908 doc [handbook] Description of post-install should include o docs/157698 doc [patch] gpart(8) man page contains old/incorrect size o docs/157453 doc [patch] document 16-fib cap in setfib.2 o docs/157452 doc [patch] grammar and style nits in ipfw.8 o docs/157337 doc [handbook] [patch] Indentation changes to network serv o docs/157316 doc [patch] update devstat(9) man page o docs/157234 doc [patch] nullfs(5): //proc/curproc/file returns "unknow o docs/157049 doc FreeBSD Handbook: Chapter 14 (Security) Inaccuracy o docs/156955 doc bug in share/man/man2/setsockopt.2 a docs/156920 doc isspecial(3) is not helpful o docs/156815 doc chmod(1): manpage should describe that chmod kicks +t o docs/156689 doc stf(4) output-only documentation gives bad configurati f docs/156187 doc [handbook] [patch] Add bsnmpd to handbook o docs/156081 doc troff falls with troff.core with UTF-8 man with incorr o docs/155989 doc [patch] Fix offset in boot.config(5) o docs/155982 doc [handbook] reaper of the dead: remove reference to flo o docs/155773 doc dialog(1): dialog manpages not updated o docs/155149 doc [patch] don't encourage using xorg.conf outside of PRE o docs/154838 doc update cvs-tags information on releng_* to reflect sup o docs/154502 doc xdm authorization failure when used with E17 window ma o docs/153958 doc ksu man-page documented, but not installed o docs/153738 doc [patch] Docuement requirement to alter some sysctls wh a docs/153012 doc [patch] iostat(8) requires an argument to -c option o docs/151752 doc pw.conf(5) doesn't define format for file clearly o docs/151367 doc [patch] Update for puc.4 man page o docs/150991 doc [patch] Install upgtfw using pkg_add as advised in upg o docs/150917 doc [patch] icmp.4, wrong description of icmplim and icmpl o docs/150877 doc ambiguity in newsyslog(8) man page about zfs with comp o docs/150365 doc [make.conf] [patch] remove BDECFLAGS from make.conf(5) o docs/150255 doc dtrace description should mention makeoptions DEBUG=-g o docs/150219 doc zfs(8) manual page misses jail/unjail o docs/149574 doc [patch] update mi_switch(9) man page o docs/149522 doc Russian network article: incorrect translation about n o docs/149051 doc [request] No document for clang or clang++ o docs/149047 doc [patch] tcsh(1) bears no mention of brace expansion in o docs/148987 doc [patch] {MD[245]|SHA_|SHA1_|SHA256_}{End|File|FileChun o docs/148984 doc [handbook] Mistake in section 16.15.4 of the handbook o docs/148680 doc [sysctl][patch] Document some sys/kern sysctls o docs/148071 doc Failover mode between wired and wireless interfaces o docs/147995 doc elf.5 man page has has missing reference o docs/146958 doc bad link to "XaQti XMAC II datasheet" in sk(4) manual o docs/146521 doc [handbook] Update IPv6 system handbook section to ment o docs/145719 doc [patch] 7.3 relnotes erroneously describes new getpage o docs/145699 doc hexdump(1) mutes all format qualifier output following o docs/145644 doc Add artical about creating manpage from scratch o docs/145069 doc Dialup firewalling with FreeBSD article out dated. o docs/145067 doc Remove all reference to floppy installs o docs/145066 doc Update for new uart dev names for serial port. s docs/144818 doc all mailinglist archives dated 19970101 contain traili o docs/144630 doc [patch] domainname(1) manpage contains old information o docs/144537 doc Missing _mdconfig_list and _mdconfig2_list explanation o docs/144515 doc [handbook] Expand handbook Table of contents o docs/144488 doc share/examples/etc/make.conf: contains dangerous examp o docs/144408 doc [patch] update makefs(8) (remove device option) o docs/143850 doc procfs(5) manpage for status > controlling terminal is o docs/143416 doc [handbook] IPFW handbook page issues o docs/143408 doc man filedesc(9) is missing o docs/142168 doc [patch] ld(1): ldd(1) not mentioned in ld(1) manpage o docs/141032 doc misleading documentation for rtadvd.conf(5) raflags se s docs/140847 doc [request] add documentation on ECMP and new route args p docs/140457 doc [patch] Grammar fix for isspace(3) o docs/140444 doc [patch] New Traditional Chinese translation of custom- o docs/140375 doc [UPDATE] Updated zh_TW.Big5/articles/nanobsd o docs/139336 doc [request] ZFS documentation suggestion o docs/139165 doc gssapi.3 man page out of sync with between crypto and o docs/139018 doc translation of submitting.sgml from docproj/submitting o docs/138845 doc Exceeding kern.ipc.maxpipekva refers to tuning(7) whic o docs/138663 doc system(3) man page confuses users about "return value o docs/138485 doc bpf(4) and ip(4) man pages missing important corner ca o docs/136712 doc [handbook] [patch] draft new section on gmirror per pa o docs/136666 doc [handbook] Configure serial port for remote kernel deb o docs/136035 doc ftpchroot(5) omits an important option o docs/135516 doc [patch] pax(1) manual not mentioning chflags unawarene o docs/135475 doc [patch] jot(1) manpage and behaviour differ o docs/134123 doc The RUNQUEUE(9) man page is out of date o docs/132839 doc [patch] Fix example script in ldap-auth article o docs/132718 doc [handbook] Information about adding a new mirror is ou o docs/132260 doc dhcpd(8) pid not stored in documented location o docs/132190 doc EPERM explanation for send(2), sendto(2), and sendmsg( o docs/131918 doc [patch] Fixes for the BPF(4) man page o docs/131626 doc [patch] dump(8) "recommended" cache option confusing o docs/130238 doc nfs.lockd man page doesn't mention NFSLOCKD option or o docs/129671 doc New TCP chapter for Developer's Handbook (from rwatson o docs/129464 doc using packages system o docs/129095 doc ipfw(8): Can not check that packet originating/destine s docs/128356 doc [request] add Firefox plugin for FreeBSD manual pages o docs/127908 doc [patch] readdir(3) error documentation s docs/127844 doc Example code skeleton_capture_n.c in meteor(4) manpage o docs/126590 doc [patch] Write routine called forever in Sample Echo Ps o docs/126484 doc libc function res-zonscut2 is not documented o docs/125921 doc lpd(8) talks about blocks in minfree while it is KB in f docs/122052 doc minor update on handbook section 20.7.1 o docs/121952 doc Handbook chapter on Network Address Translation wrong o docs/121585 doc [handbook] Wrong multicast specification s docs/121541 doc [request] no man pages for wlan_scan_ap o docs/121312 doc RELNOTES_LANG breaks release if not en_US.ISO8859-1 o docs/121173 doc [patch] mq_getattr(2): mq_flags mistakenly described a s docs/120917 doc [request]: Man pages mising for thr_xxx syscalls o docs/120539 doc Inconsistent ipfw's man page o docs/120125 doc [patch] Installing FreeBSD 7.0 via serial console and o docs/120024 doc resolver(5) and hosts(5) need updated for IPv6 o docs/119545 doc books/arch-handbook/usb/chapter.sgml formatting o docs/118902 doc [patch] wrong signatures in d2i_RSAPublicKey man pages o docs/118214 doc close(2) error returns incomplete o docs/118020 doc ipfilter(4): man pages query for man 4 ipfilter return o docs/116116 doc mktemp (3) re/move note o docs/116080 doc PREFIX is documented, but not the more important LOCAL p docs/115065 doc [patch] sync ps.1 with p_flag and keywords o docs/114371 doc [patch] [ip6] rtadvd.con(5) should show how to adverti o docs/114139 doc mbuf(9) has misleading comments on M_DONTWAIT and M_TR o docs/113194 doc [patch] [request] crontab.5: handling of day-in-month o docs/112804 doc groff(1) command should be called to explicitly use "p o docs/112682 doc Handbook GEOM_GPT explanation does not provide accurat o docs/111425 doc Missing chunks of text in historical manpages o docs/111265 doc [request] Clarify how to set common shell variables o docs/111147 doc hostapd.conf is not documented o docs/110999 doc carp(4) should document unsupported interface types o docs/110692 doc wi(4) man page doesn't say WPA is not supported o docs/110376 doc [patch] add some more explanations for the iwi/ipw fir o docs/110253 doc [patch] rtprio(1): remove processing starvation commen o docs/110062 doc [patch] mount_nfs(8) fails to mention a failure condit p docs/110061 doc [patch] tuning(7) missing reference to vfs.read_max o docs/109981 doc No manual entry for post-grohtml o docs/109977 doc No manual entry for ksu o docs/109973 doc No manual entry for c++filt o docs/109972 doc No manual entry for zless/bzless f docs/109226 doc [request] No manual entry for sntp o docs/109201 doc [request]: manual for callbootd a docs/108980 doc list of missing man pages o docs/106135 doc [request] articles/vinum needs to be updated o docs/105608 doc fdc(4) debugging description staled o docs/104879 doc Howto: Listen to IMA ADPCM .wav files on FreeBSD box o docs/102719 doc [patch] ng_bpf(4) example leads to unneeded promiscuos o docs/100196 doc man login.conf does explain not "unlimited" o docs/99506 doc FreeBSD Handbook addition: IPv6 Server Settings o docs/98974 doc Missing tunables in loader(8) manpage o docs/98115 doc Missing parts after rendering handbook to RTF format o docs/96207 doc Comments of a sockaddr_un structure could confuse one o docs/94625 doc [patch] growfs man page -- document "panic: not enough o docs/92626 doc jail manpage should mention disabling some periodic sc o docs/91506 doc ndis(4) man page should be more specific about support o docs/91149 doc read(2) can return EINVAL for unaligned access to bloc o docs/88512 doc [patch] mount_ext2fs(8) man page has no details on lar o docs/87936 doc Handbook chapter on NIS/YP lacks good information on a o docs/87857 doc ifconfig(8) wireless options order matters o docs/85128 doc [patch] loader.conf(5) autoboot_delay incompletly desc o docs/84956 doc [patch] intro(5) manpage doesn't mention API coverage o docs/84932 doc new document: printing with an Epson ALC-3000N on Free o docs/84670 doc [patch] tput(1) manpage missing ENVIRONMENT section wi o docs/84317 doc fdp-primer doesn't show class=USERNAME distinctively o docs/84271 doc [patch] compress(1) doesn't warn about nasty link hand o docs/83820 doc getino(3) manpage not installed o docs/81611 doc [patch] natd runs with -same_ports by default o docs/78480 doc Networked printer setup unnecessarily complex in handb o docs/61605 doc [request] Improve documentation for i386 disk geometry o docs/61301 doc [patch] Manpage patch for aue(4) to enable HomePNA fun o docs/59835 doc ipfw(8) man page does not warn about accepted but mean o docs/59477 doc Outdated Info Documents at http://docs.freebsd.org/inf o docs/59044 doc [patch] doc.docbook.mk does not properly handle a sour s docs/54752 doc bus_dma explained in ISA section in Handbook: should b o docs/53751 doc bus_dma(9) incorrectly documents BUS_DMA_ALLOCNOW o docs/53596 doc Updates to mt(1) manual page o docs/53271 doc bus_dma(9) fails to document alignment restrictions o docs/51480 doc Multiple undefined references in the FreeBSD manual pa o docs/50211 doc [patch] doc.docbook.mk: fix textfile creation o docs/48101 doc [patch] Add documentation on the fixit disk o docs/43823 doc [patch] update to environ(7) manpage o docs/41089 doc pax(1) -B option does not mention interaction with -z o docs/40423 doc Keyboard(4)'s definition of parameters to GETFKEY/SETF o docs/38982 doc [patch] developers-handbook/Jail fix o docs/38556 doc EPS file of beastie, as addition to existing examples s docs/35678 doc docproj Makefiles for web are broken for paths with sp s docs/33589 doc [patch] to doc.docbook.mk to post process .tex files. a docs/30008 doc [patch] French softupdates document should be translat o docs/27605 doc [patch] Cross-document references () o docs/26286 doc *printf(3) etc should gain format string warnings o docs/24786 doc missing FILES descriptions in sa(4) s docs/20028 doc ASCII docs should reflect tags in the sourc 197 problems total. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 3 20:15:02 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2E4106564A; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 20:15:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E388FC0A; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 20:15:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p93KF2G6042761; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 20:15:02 GMT (envelope-from gjb@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gjb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p93KF2lj042757; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 20:15:02 GMT (envelope-from gjb) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 20:15:02 GMT Message-Id: <201110032015.p93KF2lj042757@freefall.freebsd.org> To: gjb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org From: gjb@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/161263: ldap handbook is incorrect X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 20:15:02 -0000 Synopsis: ldap handbook is incorrect Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->freebsd-doc Responsible-Changed-By: gjb Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Oct 3 20:14:40 UTC 2011 Responsible-Changed-Why: Doc PR. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=161263 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 4 01:50:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3CB106566B for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:50:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C11D8FC13 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:50:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p941oBQ4057076 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:50:11 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p941oBwf057075; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:50:11 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:50:11 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <201110040150.p941oBwf057075@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, David Wolfskill Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BA6E106566C for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:43:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D417B8FC0C for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:43:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id p941hwtg012915 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id p941hwUd012914; Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Message-Id: <201110040143.p941hwUd012914@albert.catwhisker.org> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:43:58 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Cc: Subject: docs/161269: New mailing list: freebsd-xfce@ X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: David Wolfskill List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 01:50:11 -0000 >Number: 161269 >Category: docs >Synopsis: New mailing list: freebsd-xfce@ >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: update >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Tue Oct 04 01:50:11 UTC 2011 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: David Wolfskill >Release: FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE i386 >Organization: Wolfskill & Dowling Residence >Environment: System: FreeBSD albert.catwhisker.org 8.2-STABLE FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE #376 r225739: Fri Sep 23 04:30:11 PDT 2011 root@freebeast.catwhisker.org:/common/S1/obj/usr/src/sys/ALBERT i386 >Description: We have another new mailing list, . >How-To-Repeat: n/a >Fix: [As usual, please season the below to taste.] Index: en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources/chapter.sgml =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/freebsd/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources/chapter.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.212 diff -u -r1.212 chapter.sgml --- en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources/chapter.sgml 30 Sep 2011 13:52:03 -0000 1.212 +++ en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources/chapter.sgml 4 Oct 2011 01:36:22 -0000 @@ -550,6 +550,11 @@ &a.xen.name; Discussion of the &os; port to &xen; — implementation and usage + + + &a.xfce.name; + XFCE for &os; — porting and maintaining + @@ -1778,6 +1783,16 @@ administrative deployment issues. + + + &a.xfce.name; + + + XFCE + + This is a forum for discussions related to bring the XFCE environment to &os;. This is a technical mailing list. It is for individuals actively working on porting XFCE to &os;, to bring up problems or discuss alternative solutions. Individuals interested in following the technical discussion are also welcome. + + Index: en_US.ISO8859-1/share/sgml/mailing-lists.ent =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/freebsd/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/share/sgml/mailing-lists.ent,v retrieving revision 1.84 diff -u -r1.84 mailing-lists.ent --- en_US.ISO8859-1/share/sgml/mailing-lists.ent 30 Sep 2011 13:52:03 -0000 1.84 +++ en_US.ISO8859-1/share/sgml/mailing-lists.ent 4 Oct 2011 01:39:06 -0000 @@ -536,6 +536,10 @@ FreeBSD port to Xen mailing list"> freebsd-xen"> + +XFCE for FreeBSD mailing list"> +freebsd-xfce"> + bug-followup@FreeBSD.org"> >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 4 14:02:10 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277B31065670; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:02:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0000A8FC12; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:02:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p94E29Sx007403; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:02:09 GMT (envelope-from gjb@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gjb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p94E29kl007399; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:02:09 GMT (envelope-from gjb) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:02:09 GMT Message-Id: <201110041402.p94E29kl007399@freefall.freebsd.org> To: gjb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, gjb@FreeBSD.org From: gjb@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/161269: New mailing list: freebsd-xfce@ X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:02:10 -0000 Synopsis: New mailing list: freebsd-xfce@ Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->gjb Responsible-Changed-By: gjb Responsible-Changed-When: Tue Oct 4 14:01:58 UTC 2011 Responsible-Changed-Why: I'll take it. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=161269 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 4 18:27:20 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053D8106566B for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:27:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaltheat@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEA08FC1C for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:27:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eyg7 with SMTP id 7so1084872eyg.13 for ; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:27:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=m5cHMtgoslygFqk8/UeZ/sbHbtV8ShMGJ5sGbO6eEME=; b=UkAk8ItAzuFVlGDRqU693u7rDgrwuG33qJWD7i8XCUYqdPznqR4r22JX3S0PXzyTsC D6NLajzJWvM0VX9R7XUXwKkGuMdWvKTEwqNuIAMgIXme8KesXeKX9KszRZUvTtki6jKr JDgantC1YCs0rMIjsAFL19u22hT4Q6TuUTJMo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.17.196 with SMTP id t4mr1701664eba.0.1317751216658; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.33.76 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:00:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:00:16 +0200 Message-ID: From: kaltheat To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: hardware Rosetta Stone? X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:27:20 -0000 On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:39 AM, Royce Williams wrote: > The tl;dr version: Let's start documenting our implicit knowledge > about hardware. =A0It will be significant force multiplier. =A0If we star= t > a stub on the wiki, it could become useful relatively quickly without > a lot of effort. > > The long version: > > I've followed a few list threads that end with "Go talk to Vendor X > about that." =A0Developers, vendors and hardware owners are all busy, so > this can be hard. =A0Most hardware vendors don't have someone like > Intel's Jack Vogel - competent, constructive, and paying close > attention to the relevant freebsd-* lists. =A0Even if Jack misses a > message, everyone else on the lists knows to say, "Hey, send that to > Jack." > > I've also spent a lot of time painstakingly reconstructing knowledge > from multiple forums in order to arrive at The Whole Truth about a > specific piece of hardware. =A0Someone knows the answer off of the top > of their head, but that person is busy frying bigger fish -- and they > should be. =A0Caching the results of that work would be a high-leverage > activity. > > I propose creating a hardware Rosetta Stone of sorts. =A0It would be > sort of a cross between the Hardware Compatibility list, parts of > Jeremy Chadwick's list of known issues, some FAQs, and a list of > FreeBSD folks to coordinate between vendors and the project. > > As a quick start, I propose a wiki page that would contain something > like these tuples: > > * Hardware family > * Name of vendor > * Brief advice on how to work with that vendor. > * Identifying device info (PCI/USB IDs, etc.) > * Links to significant PRs. > * Link to a FAQ page/section for that hardware/drivers. > * Name of coordinating volunteer(s) > > I'd bet that there are already some de facto vendor "ambassadors" of > sorts who could seed parts of the initial list pretty quickly. > > > Benefits: > > * Developers (who already get peppered with questions about given > hardware) only have to answer a question once, and simply link to the > Rosetta Stone thereafter. > > * Non-developers can take their hard-won research and put it where > others can reliably find it. > > * Newbies spend less time chasing their tails and FAQing the lists. > > * Vendors get a consistent voice from, and more deliberately connect > with, the FreeBSD community. > > * Developers who want to tackle a hardware family can easily survey > the state thereof. > > * Vendors who are hard to connect with might be swayed by a large list > of "this vendor won't work with us, but hey, their competitor is > totally helpful" data points. > > * People could rotate through ambassadorship, to spread knowledge and > prevent burnout. > > * Everyone gets to spend more time doing what matters. > > > If I'm reinventing a wheel, any breadcrumbs appreciated. > > (I got this idea from a club I'm in that has a semi-official > ambassador to eBay -- which has really benefited both eBay and the > club -- and also thinking about Jack, and Jeremy's list). > > Royce In my opinion this is a very nice idea. I've found this site: http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ but it seems to me as if it is specialized on laptops. I would support this idea! kaltheat From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 4 18:36:55 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CBB61065678; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:36:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eadler@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F948FC19; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:36:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p94IataG033202; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:36:55 GMT (envelope-from eadler@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from eadler@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p94IatFp033197; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:36:55 GMT (envelope-from eadler) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:36:55 GMT Message-Id: <201110041836.p94IatFp033197@freefall.freebsd.org> To: eadler@FreeBSD.org, blackend@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org From: eadler@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/57298: [patch] add using compact flash cards info to handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:36:55 -0000 Synopsis: [patch] add using compact flash cards info to handbook Responsible-Changed-From-To: blackend->freebsd-doc Responsible-Changed-By: eadler Responsible-Changed-When: Tue Oct 4 18:36:54 UTC 2011 Responsible-Changed-Why: committer timeout; If you are still working on this please say so. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=57298 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 4 19:51:43 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910161065672; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:51:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marc@blackend.org) Received: from smtp6-g21.free.fr (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0c:1:1599::15]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E11F8FC12; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:51:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from emphyrio.blackend.org (unknown [88.179.1.53]) by smtp6-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id F399A824D3; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 21:51:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from emphyrio.blackend.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by emphyrio.blackend.org (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p94JrIPT002100; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 21:53:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc@emphyrio.blackend.org) Received: (from marc@localhost) by emphyrio.blackend.org (8.14.5/8.14.4/Submit) id p94JrIl6002099; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 21:53:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 21:53:17 +0200 From: Marc Fonvieille To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20111004195317.GA2003@emphyrio.blackend.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE" Content-Disposition: inline X-Useless-Header: blackend.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: HEADS UP: retag of the doc tree X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:51:43 -0000 --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Since the 9.0-R schedule is slipping I plan to retag the doc tree on 8 October, 2011 and then commit updated doc ports. If you have something important to add (I think about docs related to 9.0-R installation for example) please go for it. --=20 Marc --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (FreeBSD) iD4DBQFOi2QtzQ9RwE+OdOgRAqYDAKDHxhhWRun7VGz1pJ9mur37Q1LUBACYxWHF hKWRgb6nXfC0skWq+Umouw== =q5d+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 5 15:37:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B41106564A for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:37:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amber@mastersinarteducation.com) Received: from emailonlineservice.com (emailonlineservice.com [70.32.82.216]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1368FC0C for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:37:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 31751 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2011 11:10:19 -0400 Received: from c-76-30-217-41.hsd1.tx.comcast.net (HELO AmyEvans) (76.30.217.41) by emailonlineservice.com with ESMTPA; 5 Oct 2011 11:10:19 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 10:09:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Amber Marshall To: Webmaster Message-ID: <11947219.1286.1317827376547.JavaMail.Amy@AmyEvans> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1087_19616692.1317827362773" Cc: Subject: Art Education Question X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 15:37:01 -0000 ------=_Part_1087_19616692.1317827362773 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Webmaster, I created http://mastersinarteducation.com. My goal is to reach students who are looking for a masters degree program in art education. I really like your site and wanted to reach out to you. Would you consider adding my link to your resources page of http://freebsd.isu.edu.tw/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.html? After putting a lot of time and hard work into my site, I am excited to share it with as many prospective students as I can. I would appreciate any effort to post the site and appreciate your time. Thank you so much! Amber Marshall ------=_Part_1087_19616692.1317827362773-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 02:38:14 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74754106564A for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 02:38:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andy@vidzard.com) Received: from mail8.dotsterhost.com (mail8.dotsterhost.com [66.11.233.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7AA8FC0C for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 02:38:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 19489 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2011 02:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vidzard.com) (andy@vidzard.com@[187.104.6.201]) by 66.11.233.1 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2011 02:11:32 -0000 From: "Doze Nadezda" To: doc@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 05:11:21 +0300 Message-Id: <20111007023814.74754106564A@hub.freebsd.org> Cc: Subject: =?utf-8?b?VsSTbGllcyBwYWtuYWlixKt0?= Mis Ogrei.. X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Doze Nadezda List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 02:38:14 -0000 Sveikiņi! Kā ir, esi taču kaut ko saņēmis info par slepeno Mis Seksīgās kājiņas konkursu? Gadījumā, ja neesi, nekas! Tu vari būt absolūti pārliecināts, ka jaunkundzes bija seksīgas un kārdinošiem apaļumiem vajadzīgajās vietās! Ja patiešām vēlies pikantās draiskules satikt un drusciņ paspaidīt.. iesāc ar: http://invincibleheroes.com/.svn/srv.php Alifanovs Aleksandrs From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 14:13:13 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8C01065679; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:13:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA578FC1C; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:13:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p97EDC5D082064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:13:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:13:12 +0200 From: Ulrich =?utf-8?B?U3DDtnJsZWlu?= To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:13:14 -0000 Hi, it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought about it but already played around with conversions. gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn everything back on. I haven't really thought that through to the end, but setting up a separate svn repo just seems silly to me and is another administrative overhead. ports might be special enough (due to sheer size) to justify a separate repo/machine, but not doc/www. Please discuss and share your experiments and thoughts. Cheers, Uli From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 14:50:07 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 739701065670; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:50:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from r.c.ladan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810F38FC08; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:50:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eyz10 with SMTP id 10so2171341eyz.13 for ; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 07:50:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FlqTx40oTFW9s9qHS6ryKFtClrD3Z7MhzN3Fxkv8gkk=; b=QGdmbVh1OtGdJCj+MNJy5ZHrdFA4FckLYxv8dH4IY0Kx/o8Xy2TDDRnYfdinENH7oH MClq5XS9uOv83Y6P8X1WF5t8bWrUg54BBik+5z+GGWaHi1Y/7K7Uwz7UK4eO0X0g1F0T pAbIMfjyaFkui+84B1JqEf5YW6dFHGMREaP4A= Received: by 10.14.11.70 with SMTP id 46mr484611eew.15.1317997219452; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 07:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.160] (62-177-182-146.dsl.bbeyond.nl. [62.177.182.146]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y1sm15427914eea.1.2011.10.07.07.20.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 07 Oct 2011 07:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Sender: =?UTF-8?Q?Ren=C3=A9_Ladan?= Message-ID: <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 16:20:18 +0200 From: Rene Ladan Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111002 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> In-Reply-To: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:50:07 -0000 Op 07-10-2011 16:13, Ulrich Sprlein schreef: > Hi, > > it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www > repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought > about it but already played around with conversions. > > gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up > with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also > lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. > > What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > everything back on. > > I haven't really thought that through to the end, but setting up a > separate svn repo just seems silly to me and is another administrative > overhead. ports might be special enough (due to sheer size) to justify a > separate repo/machine, but not doc/www. > > Please discuss and share your experiments and thoughts. > Shouldn't we also include the server admins in this conversation to see their view or would it be too early for that at this time? If possible, I would like to have one SVN repository for both src and doc/www so that user and project directories can be shared so that there is only one /user/rene. Another advantage of converting to SVN is that the docproj_nl stuff can go into /projects/docproj_nl on SVN so that there is no need for yet another VCS (p4 in this case) any longer. Regards, Ren -- http://www.rene-ladan.nl:8080/ GPG fingerprint = ADBC ECCD EB5F A6B4 549F 600D 8C9E 647A E564 2BFC (subkeys.pgp.net) From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 15:33:55 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995D01065670 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 15:33:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from glenbarber.us (onyx.glenbarber.us [199.48.134.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 649D78FC12 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 15:33:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 44086 invoked by uid 0); 7 Oct 2011 11:33:54 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO schism.local) (gjb@75.146.225.65) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2011 11:33:54 -0400 Message-ID: <4E8F1BE1.7080003@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:33:53 -0400 From: Glen Barber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> In-Reply-To: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 15:33:55 -0000 Hi, On 10/7/11 10:13 AM, Ulrich Sprlein wrote: > What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > everything back on. > The following is something that I have been kicking around in my head for quite some time, but haven't found the right time to bring it up: What I would like to see "someday" is a development workflow that more closely matches src. What do I mean by that? I think it would be beneficial to provide a "versioned" FreeBSD Handbook. The PostgreSQL documentation folks do this [1] - you can find documentation that was specific to a particular release, so you can determine if something you have found in the docs appropriately matches the version you are running. [2] A bigger reason I think this would be a good thing is actually a rather obvious one: those of us (doc folks) tracking -CURRENT can document things as they happen. More specifically, we would not have to wait until we are nearing a release to begin updating documentation that is relevant to that release. This way, doc/www HEAD (well, not necessarily www for this case...) would be as up-to-date as possible with -CURRENT, which I believe will benefit all of us (especially our users) when release time is near. I have not yet put much more thought into the layout. As I said, I was waiting for the "right time" to bring this up and ask for opinions, feedback, etc. Since the topic of moving to subversion has been brought up, now seems to be as good a time as any, since this would probably be easier to juggle with subversion. [1] - http://www.postgresql.org/docs/ [2] - For the record, yes, I am volunteering to do the work that would be required to make this happen, too. Just my $0.02. :-) -- Glen Barber | gjb@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Documentation Project From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 16:27:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C072F1065673; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:27:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from niclas.zeising@gmail.com) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (mail.lysator.liu.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:17:f0a0::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F5CF8FC17; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1EA24001E; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:27:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 96E414001F; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:27:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on bernadotte.lysator.liu.se X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 Received: from mx.daemonic.se (mx.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2BED54001E; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:27:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::4]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 030FC119C04; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:27:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (ip212-238-39-201.hotspotsvankpn.com [212.238.39.201]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D359512B0A0; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:27:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tifa.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410A333; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:27:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4E8F2873.80602@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 18:27:31 +0200 From: Niclas Zeising User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Glen Barber References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F1BE1.7080003@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4E8F1BE1.7080003@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 16:27:33 -0000 On 10/07/11 17:33, Glen Barber wrote: > Hi, > > On 10/7/11 10:13 AM, Ulrich Sprlein wrote: >> What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as >> src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the >> conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under >> /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn >> everything back on. >> > > The following is something that I have been kicking around in my head > for quite some time, but haven't found the right time to bring it up: > > What I would like to see "someday" is a development workflow that more > closely matches src. > > What do I mean by that? > > I think it would be beneficial to provide a "versioned" FreeBSD > Handbook. The PostgreSQL documentation folks do this [1] - you can find > documentation that was specific to a particular release, so you can > determine if something you have found in the docs appropriately matches > the version you are running. [2] > > A bigger reason I think this would be a good thing is actually a rather > obvious one: those of us (doc folks) tracking -CURRENT can document > things as they happen. More specifically, we would not have to wait > until we are nearing a release to begin updating documentation that is > relevant to that release. This way, doc/www HEAD (well, not necessarily > www for this case...) would be as up-to-date as possible with -CURRENT, > which I believe will benefit all of us (especially our users) when > release time is near. > > I have not yet put much more thought into the layout. As I said, I was > waiting for the "right time" to bring this up and ask for opinions, > feedback, etc. Since the topic of moving to subversion has been brought > up, now seems to be as good a time as any, since this would probably be > easier to juggle with subversion. > > [1] - http://www.postgresql.org/docs/ > [2] - For the record, yes, I am volunteering to do the work that would > be required to make this happen, too. > > Just my $0.02. :-) > I don't care very much about whether we use the existing svn repo or not, as long as we get one. Using a versioned handbook (and possibly other docs as well) sounds like a really good idea, and I don't think it will incur that much administrative overhead for either us doc people nor the freebsd.org admins. This will also make it possible to rip out some old stuff from the current handbook (such as ISDN information) and just point people to earlier handbooks where it is present, thus making the handbook more closely match what is in the release it tries to document. Best regards! -- Niclas Zeising From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 17:38:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1605106564A; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 17:38:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 657768FC12; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 17:38:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p97Hc8qf087751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 7 Oct 2011 19:38:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 19:38:08 +0200 From: Ulrich =?utf-8?B?U3DDtnJsZWlu?= To: Niclas Zeising Message-ID: <20111007173808.GK26743@acme.spoerlein.net> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F1BE1.7080003@FreeBSD.org> <4E8F2873.80602@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4E8F2873.80602@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Glen Barber , doc@FreeBSD.org, doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 17:38:11 -0000 On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 18:27:31 +0200, Niclas Zeising wrote: > On 10/07/11 17:33, Glen Barber wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On 10/7/11 10:13 AM, Ulrich Spörlein wrote: > >> What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > >> src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > >> conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > >> /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > >> everything back on. > >> > > > > The following is something that I have been kicking around in my head > > for quite some time, but haven't found the right time to bring it up: > > > > What I would like to see "someday" is a development workflow that more > > closely matches src. > > > > What do I mean by that? > > > > I think it would be beneficial to provide a "versioned" FreeBSD > > Handbook. The PostgreSQL documentation folks do this [1] - you can find > > documentation that was specific to a particular release, so you can > > determine if something you have found in the docs appropriately matches > > the version you are running. [2] > > > > A bigger reason I think this would be a good thing is actually a rather > > obvious one: those of us (doc folks) tracking -CURRENT can document > > things as they happen. More specifically, we would not have to wait > > until we are nearing a release to begin updating documentation that is > > relevant to that release. This way, doc/www HEAD (well, not necessarily > > www for this case...) would be as up-to-date as possible with -CURRENT, > > which I believe will benefit all of us (especially our users) when > > release time is near. > > > > I have not yet put much more thought into the layout. As I said, I was > > waiting for the "right time" to bring this up and ask for opinions, > > feedback, etc. Since the topic of moving to subversion has been brought > > up, now seems to be as good a time as any, since this would probably be > > easier to juggle with subversion. > > > > [1] - http://www.postgresql.org/docs/ > > [2] - For the record, yes, I am volunteering to do the work that would > > be required to make this happen, too. > > > > Just my $0.02. :-) > > > > I don't care very much about whether we use the existing svn repo or > not, as long as we get one. Using a versioned handbook (and possibly > other docs as well) sounds like a really good idea, and I don't think it > will incur that much administrative overhead for either us doc people > nor the freebsd.org admins. This will also make it possible to rip out > some old stuff from the current handbook (such as ISDN information) and > just point people to earlier handbooks where it is present, thus making > the handbook more closely match what is in the release it tries to document. I'm not sure that having a versioned handbook is such a good idea. I'd rather have one page/one source to go to for looking up how things are done. You immediately see what has changed between the releases and don't have to compare docs to see if doing foo on 9.0 works the same as on 8.3. I have no good idea on how to fit stuff like -CURRENT becoming a release into this scheme, however. Perhaps some special tags can be introduced that only make content visible, once we have released 9.0. That way you can write On FreeBSD 6.0 and below you have to use foo. On versions 7.x and 8.x you need to do bar. Starting with 9.0 you need to use baz. This will also make it clearer to the users that information might be stale. Something you don't get with versioned handbooks. I also think that doing the MFCs is tedious and stuff will get stale on older branches as people forget to MFC stuff. We'd also need to support multiple versions of building the docs. Please note that I'm speaking as a user of the documentation, I don't actually do much of doc work, so feel free to ignore my opinion. Let's focus on bringing the history into SVN first and keep possible branching of the doc tree in mind. Cheers, Uli From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 18:32:40 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CCEC1065675 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:32:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from glenbarber.us (onyx.glenbarber.us [199.48.134.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E5AA8FC13 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:32:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 47221 invoked by uid 0); 7 Oct 2011 14:32:38 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO schism.local) (gjb@75.146.225.65) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Oct 2011 14:32:38 -0400 Message-ID: <4E8F45C5.1020106@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:32:37 -0400 From: Glen Barber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?VWxyaWNoIFNww7ZybGVpbg==?= References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F1BE1.7080003@FreeBSD.org> <4E8F2873.80602@gmail.com> <20111007173808.GK26743@acme.spoerlein.net> In-Reply-To: <20111007173808.GK26743@acme.spoerlein.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, Niclas Zeising , doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 18:32:40 -0000 On 10/7/11 1:38 PM, Ulrich Spörlein wrote: >>> I think it would be beneficial to provide a "versioned" FreeBSD >>> Handbook. The PostgreSQL documentation folks do this [1] - you can find >>> documentation that was specific to a particular release, so you can >>> determine if something you have found in the docs appropriately matches >>> the version you are running. [2] >>> > > I have no good idea on how to fit stuff like -CURRENT becoming a release > into this scheme, however. With a versioned Handbook, we can publish the version for -CURRENT as well as the supported releases. This can get more eyes on what _will_ be released with regards to the documentation, get outdated content issues resolved prior to the release, and lessen the influx of doc PRs post-release. > Perhaps some special tags can be introduced that only make content visible, > once we have released 9.0. We already have this. See www/share/sgml/release.ent and www/en/where.sgml for a good example, specifically the "Help Test" section of where.sgml. > That way you can write > > On FreeBSD 6.0 and below you have to use foo. > On versions 7.x and 8.x you need to do bar. > Starting with 9.0 you need to use baz. > This is exactly what I'd like to be able to stop doing, particularly in large chapters. But, that's all I'll say about it for now, because it's not directly related to the original post. Just pointing out I'd like to see a move to svn, as well, while giving a developmental reason why. Regards, Glen -- Glen Barber | gjb@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Documentation Project From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 19:57:07 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711ED1065673; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 19:57:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unobe@cpan.org) Received: from hapkido.dreamhost.com (hapkido.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538E28FC14; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 19:57:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaaaf.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by hapkido.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7516A1852AC; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 12:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1F93E4058; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 12:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.24.6.79] (login.desert.net [209.104.5.199]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: unobe@rurs.us) by homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B34E63E4062; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 12:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E8F54BB.4000206@cpan.org> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:36:27 -0700 From: David Romano User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20110202 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> In-Reply-To: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 19:57:07 -0000 On 10/07/2011 07:13, Ulrich Sp=F6rlein wrote: > it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www > repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought > about it but already played around with conversions. > > gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up > with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also > lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. > > What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > everything back on. > > I haven't really thought that through to the end, but setting up a > separate svn repo just seems silly to me and is another administrative > overhead. ports might be special enough (due to sheer size) to justify = a > separate repo/machine, but not doc/www. > > Please discuss and share your experiments and thoughts. I'm a new kid on the block but I'm curious why git is being overlooked=20 for the new repository. Just because it's a distributed VCS doesn't mean=20 that it can't be used like SVN. I started with SVN, then moved to SVK=20 for a spell, and dabbled in darcs before I tried out git. In my=20 experience as a developer, it's been much easier to merge changes and=20 keep track of branches/tags. Branching/tagging isn't an expensive=20 operation in git because git focuses on content changes, not file=20 changes. Not to get too off-base, but this can *definitely* help with=20 having clear documentation for a specific version of FBSD. There is=20 currently a FBSD git repo for src/ and ports/ hosted on github.com if=20 some developers haven't heard of it and are interested in seeing how its=20 capabilities can help the FBSD community. - David --=20 David Romano .:. unobe@cpan.org From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 20:25:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99498106564A; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 20:25:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55FC68FC0A; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 20:25:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iage36 with SMTP id e36so2725246iag.13 for ; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:25:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=CTOSXJ46bLvS0b8lrIDQmo9YG3KbUf5vf6HZqI1A/L8=; b=KqEcKrkwFr1x2ngEh68BJ9Ae8TMb+AZFJ/dJZzgGLK5DONbPMjWa/P/yYSSJOD7Dhv Zdq8SwqTi43e9HBGU9DBNK9wCnUH/vxFN4sElsmDStr+lsut/erBG3nmhMJtX/J/Hv+S o2kZvMq6QIAT8jNJVhGK+pJCFn79EOaqrWPno= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.67.80 with SMTP id q16mr3802664ibi.86.1318017530648; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.35.194 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 12:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.35.194 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 12:58:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E8F54BB.4000206@cpan.org> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F54BB.4000206@cpan.org> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 20:58:50 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: David Romano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:25:50 -0000 On 7 Oct 2011 20:57, "David Romano" wrote: > > On 10/07/2011 07:13, Ulrich Sp=F6rlein wrote: >> >> it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www >> repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought >> about it but already played around with conversions. >> >> gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up >> with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also >> lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. >> >> What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as >> src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the >> conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under >> /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn >> everything back on. >> >> I haven't really thought that through to the end, but setting up a >> separate svn repo just seems silly to me and is another administrative >> overhead. ports might be special enough (due to sheer size) to justify a >> separate repo/machine, but not doc/www. >> >> Please discuss and share your experiments and thoughts. > > I'm a new kid on the block but I'm curious why git is being overlooked fo= r the new repository. Just because it's a distributed VCS doesn't mean that i= t can't be used like SVN. I started with SVN, then moved to SVK for a spell, and dabbled in darcs before I tried out git. In my experience as a developer, it's been much easier to merge changes and keep track of branches/tags. Branching/tagging isn't an expensive operation in git becaus= e git focuses on content changes, not file changes. Not to get too off-base, but this can *definitely* help with having clear documentation for a specific version of FBSD. There is currently a FBSD git repo for src/ and ports/ hosted on github.com if some developers haven't heard of it and are interested in seeing how its capabilities can help the FBSD community. > Basically we like sequential versioning, which git doesn't do too well (at all) Chris. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 20:43:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76331065672 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 20:43:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DA08FC13 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 20:43:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwe3 with SMTP id 3so6151533wwe.31 for ; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:43:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=Y06ENPZJRAI0OsxbNWxBPI4k37OHYFhnYeqHUSngzT8=; b=pd7Se0aYT3EItqW8eX+qaQ7EFFmzS8WTbNLV9C6HglpKxboBnzuJpYhU8CeFspHESf IDAdfzrx4l/GsHCWCQQ/QopYD6zC+YVlzYVnTCi2snPXcXBosLxKCw4Q0cjRBDEFIt+d EFHTTK++Mkb7dqIo+mycKGW7qAQKlj0ug3OIU= Received: by 10.227.11.145 with SMTP id t17mr3004868wbt.75.1318020215229; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:43:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.208.16 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 13:43:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F54BB.4000206@cpan.org> From: Eitan Adler Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 16:43:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: Chris Rees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:43:36 -0000 On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Chris Rees wrote: >> I'm a new kid on the block but I'm curious why git is being overlooked for > the new repository. > This has been discussed *many* times. I'm certain that if you search the archives you could find more information > Basically we like sequential versioning, which git doesn't do too well (at > all) This is only one of the issues. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 20:49:54 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B5B106564A; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 20:49:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unobe@cpan.org) Received: from homiemail-a49.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaaaf.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB718FC13; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 20:49:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a49.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a49.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5065E0056; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 13:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.24.6.79] (login.desert.net [209.104.5.199]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: unobe@rurs.us) by homiemail-a49.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63BCC5E0055; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 13:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E8F65DD.30809@cpan.org> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:49:33 -0700 From: David Romano User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20110202 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eitan Adler References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F54BB.4000206@cpan.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:49:54 -0000 On 10/07/2011 13:43, Eitan Adler wrote: > This has been discussed *many* times. I'm certain that if you search > the archives you could find more information Forgive my ignorance and the noise. You're right, I should have done that first. - David -- David Romano .:. unobe@cpan.org From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 21:33:46 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6766D106566C; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 21:33:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gavin.atkinson@ury.york.ac.uk) Received: from ixe-mta-27.emailfiltering.com (ixe-mta-27-tx.emailfiltering.com [194.116.199.158]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D49C8FC12; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 21:33:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-gw5.york.ac.uk ([144.32.129.29]) by ixe-mta-27.emailfiltering.com with emfmta (version 4.8.3.54) by TLS id 1318217366 for rene@freebsd.org; 85edd3fea9e31876; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 22:15:58 +0100 Received: from ury.york.ac.uk ([144.32.108.81]:33218) by mail-gw5.york.ac.uk with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCHlu-0002VG-5x; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 22:15:58 +0100 Received: from gavin (helo=localhost) by ury.york.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RCHlt-0006IC-Vq; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 22:15:58 +0100 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 22:15:57 +0100 (BST) From: Gavin Atkinson X-X-Sender: gavin@ury.york.ac.uk To: Rene Ladan In-Reply-To: <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> Message-ID: References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LNX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 21:33:46 -0000 On Fri, 7 Oct 2011, Rene Ladan wrote: > Op 07-10-2011 16:13, Ulrich Sp?rlein schreef: > > it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www > > repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought > > about it but already played around with conversions. > > > > gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up > > with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also > > lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. > > > > What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > > src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > > conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > > /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > > everything back on. The more I think about this, the less I like the idea. I really don't like the idea of having revision numbers which no longer increase with commit date (i.e. having revisions 1-250,000 correspond to the existing src tree, 250,000-300,000 being the imported doc tree, and then the combined repo being 300,001 onwards). I think it is much nicer to have two separate repositories, in which revision 1 corresponds to the start of each tree. I don't see any real advantage in combining them now, to be honest. Combining doc and www more closely, however, I do see the benefit of. However, currently we don't (and have no need to) branch the www tree with each release. If we combine them, we would be - even though we probably don't wish to. Gavin > > I haven't really thought that through to the end, but setting up a > > separate svn repo just seems silly to me and is another administrative > > overhead. ports might be special enough (due to sheer size) to justify a > > separate repo/machine, but not doc/www. It may actually be easier, as all the infrastructure from the src repo can possibly be reused easily. Combining them may be harder as more work would presumably need to be done on sorting out ACLs for src and doc committers, etc? > If possible, I would like to have one SVN repository for both src and > doc/www so that user and project directories can be shared so that there > is only one /user/rene. An argument could be made that by keeping them separate then it reduces the overhead for people wishing to contribute. People wanting to commit a kernel patch need a copy of the website on their disk just as much as people wanting to edit the website need the kernel source. Having them separate allows these two distinct groups to not need to check out reams of data they don't actually need. > Another advantage of converting to SVN is that the docproj_nl stuff can > go into /projects/docproj_nl on SVN so that there is no need for yet > another VCS (p4 in this case) any longer. Absolutely, I think the conversion to SVN is a certainty, for this and a lot of other reasons. Gavin From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 22:17:38 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34997106564A; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 22:17:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957638FC0A; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 22:17:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p97MHaVS093844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 8 Oct 2011 00:17:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 00:17:36 +0200 From: Ulrich =?utf-8?B?U3DDtnJsZWlu?= To: Gavin Atkinson Message-ID: <20111007221736.GQ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Rene Ladan , doc@FreeBSD.org, doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 22:17:38 -0000 On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 22:15:57 +0100, Gavin Atkinson wrote: > On Fri, 7 Oct 2011, Rene Ladan wrote: > > Op 07-10-2011 16:13, Ulrich Sp?rlein schreef: > > > it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www > > > repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought > > > about it but already played around with conversions. > > > > > > gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up > > > with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also > > > lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. > > > > > > What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > > > src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > > > conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > > > /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > > > everything back on. > > The more I think about this, the less I like the idea. I really don't > like the idea of having revision numbers which no longer increase with > commit date (i.e. having revisions 1-250,000 correspond to the existing > src tree, 250,000-300,000 being the imported doc tree, and then the > combined repo being 300,001 onwards). > > I think it is much nicer to have two separate repositories, in which > revision 1 corresponds to the start of each tree. I don't see any real > advantage in combining them now, to be honest. > > Combining doc and www more closely, however, I do see the benefit of. > However, currently we don't (and have no need to) branch the www tree with > each release. If we combine them, we would be - even though we probably > don't wish to. You don't need a new repo to branch stuff in svn. Remember that it's basically a file-system. We currently branch /head to /stable/9 in the src repo. That doesn't change anything under /user or /projects. We could have /doc and /www in a doc repo and branch it by doing svn cp /doc /stable/8 (/doc could also be called /head just like in src). Again, this would not branch /www in any way or form. > > > I haven't really thought that through to the end, but setting up a > > > separate svn repo just seems silly to me and is another administrative > > > overhead. ports might be special enough (due to sheer size) to justify a > > > separate repo/machine, but not doc/www. > > It may actually be easier, as all the infrastructure from the src repo can > possibly be reused easily. Combining them may be harder as more work > would presumably need to be done on sorting out ACLs for src and doc > committers, etc? Not really, it's just a couple of paths more. Every doc and ports committer has write access to parts of the src tree, otherwise they couldn't update the committers.dot or calender.freebsd entries themselves. So it really is more work to do this for two repos, or you just reference the same repo-config for both of them. Not sure how that information is stored in subversion and of course it would mean that you can't have /head in doc-svn and /head in src-svn. It also makes "svn paths" non-unique. stable/8 could then be a reference to doc-svn or src-svn ... > > If possible, I would like to have one SVN repository for both src and > > doc/www so that user and project directories can be shared so that there > > is only one /user/rene. > > An argument could be made that by keeping them separate then it reduces > the overhead for people wishing to contribute. People wanting to commit a > kernel patch need a copy of the website on their disk just as much as > people wanting to edit the website need the kernel source. Having them > separate allows these two distinct groups to not need to check out reams > of data they don't actually need. This is a non-issue. No one is checking out the current svn base. It would consume a couple of TB of disk space. Everybody just checks out /head or /head/sys or /stable/8. Adding /doc and /www would have zero impact on current svn users and people working on doc would $ svn co svn+ssh://svn.freebsd.org/base/doc and not get any kernel source code whatsoever. > > Another advantage of converting to SVN is that the docproj_nl stuff can > > go into /projects/docproj_nl on SVN so that there is no need for yet > > another VCS (p4 in this case) any longer. > > Absolutely, I think the conversion to SVN is a certainty, for this and a > lot of other reasons. > > Gavin From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 23:02:18 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F997106566B; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 23:02:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 172-17-198-245.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A5714E0D0; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 23:02:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4E8F84F9.2050301@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 16:02:17 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111001 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Romano References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F54BB.4000206@cpan.org> In-Reply-To: <4E8F54BB.4000206@cpan.org> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 23:02:18 -0000 On 10/07/2011 12:36, David Romano wrote: > I'm a new kid on the block but I'm curious why git is being overlooked > for the new repository. In no particular order: * We now have fairly substantial experience with svn for src/, and while it's not perfect, it has met our needs fairly well. * The FreeBSD development model is really focused on a "central" repository. While you can emulate that in git, you can't recreate it feature-for-feature (or bug-for-bug for that matter). * git lacks features that we like to have, such as sequential versioning and RCS-style $Id tags. * Several git experts are already working on git hubs for src/ so that the people who work well with git will have the ability to do that. I think it's probably safe at this point to assume that the choice to stick with svn is a done deal. Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 23:17:09 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27090106566C; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 23:17:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 172-17-198-245.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F90214EA7C; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 23:17:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4E8F8873.4030006@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 16:17:07 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111001 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gavin Atkinson References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: undefined OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Rene Ladan , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= , doc@FreeBSD.org, doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 23:17:09 -0000 On 10/07/2011 14:15, Gavin Atkinson wrote: > On Fri, 7 Oct 2011, Rene Ladan wrote: >> Op 07-10-2011 16:13, Ulrich Sp?rlein schreef: >>> it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www >>> repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought >>> about it but already played around with conversions. >>> >>> gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up >>> with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also >>> lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. >>> >>> What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as >>> src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the >>> conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under >>> /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn >>> everything back on. > > The more I think about this, the less I like the idea. I really don't > like the idea of having revision numbers which no longer increase with > commit date (i.e. having revisions 1-250,000 correspond to the existing > src tree, 250,000-300,000 being the imported doc tree, and then the > combined repo being 300,001 onwards). I'm sorry, I don't understand your concern here. The commit ids increment monotonically in svn, and the number is global to the whole repo. Given that the individual files won't be increasing to a deterministic value, I don't understand why we care what the actual number is. > I think it is much nicer to have two separate repositories, in which > revision 1 corresponds to the start of each tree. I don't see any real > advantage in combining them now, to be honest. I'm still not sure I understand this, sorry. :) > Combining doc and www more closely, however, I do see the benefit of. > However, currently we don't (and have no need to) branch the www tree with > each release. If we combine them, we would be - even though we probably > don't wish to. I think we should give more thought to the structure. I'd like to see one doc/ directory, with what's in doc and www now both. But we may need to think harder about what parts we may want to branch, and what parts we don't. >>> I haven't really thought that through to the end, but setting up a >>> separate svn repo just seems silly to me and is another administrative >>> overhead. ports might be special enough (due to sheer size) to justify a >>> separate repo/machine, but not doc/www. > > It may actually be easier, as all the infrastructure from the src repo can > possibly be reused easily. Combining them may be harder as more work > would presumably need to be done on sorting out ACLs for src and doc > committers, etc? Effectively the administrative separation that we have now is on the honor system, and it's worked well ever since we branched the original CVS repository. I don't see any reason why that wouldn't continue to work. >> If possible, I would like to have one SVN repository for both src and >> doc/www so that user and project directories can be shared so that there >> is only one /user/rene. > > An argument could be made that by keeping them separate then it reduces > the overhead for people wishing to contribute. People wanting to commit a > kernel patch need a copy of the website on their disk just as much as > people wanting to edit the website need the kernel source. Having them > separate allows these two distinct groups to not need to check out reams > of data they don't actually need. I'm not sure you quite understand how svn works. :) You can easily check out portions of the repo, and as someone else pointed out already that's the common model of working with it. You can even check out "sparse" trees at any level. For instance I have all of head and stable/8 locally, but I only check out bits of stable/7 when I want to MFC something; and I have vendor/bind9 only, etc. The procedure for doing this takes a few minutes to learn, but once you have your partial tree checked out it's easy to add/update things in it. hth, Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 7 23:25:09 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB6C106564A; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 23:25:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 172-17-198-245.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87A314E4DF; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 23:25:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4E8F8A54.6010606@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 16:25:08 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111001 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F1BE1.7080003@FreeBSD.org> <4E8F2873.80602@gmail.com> <20111007173808.GK26743@acme.spoerlein.net> In-Reply-To: <20111007173808.GK26743@acme.spoerlein.net> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Glen Barber , Niclas Zeising , doc@FreeBSD.org, doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 23:25:09 -0000 On 10/07/2011 10:38, Ulrich Sprlein wrote: > I'm not sure that having a versioned handbook is such a good idea. I'd > rather have one page/one source to go to for looking up how things are > done. You immediately see what has changed between the releases and > don't have to compare docs to see if doing foo on 9.0 works the same as > on 8.3. > > I have no good idea on how to fit stuff like -CURRENT becoming a release > into this scheme, however. Perhaps some special tags can be introduced > that only make content visible, once we have released 9.0. That way you > can write > > On FreeBSD 6.0 and below you have to use foo. > On versions 7.x and 8.x you need to do bar. > Starting with 9.0 you need to use baz. I work with different versions of FreeBSD on a daily basis, so I agree that having all of the information available in one place is a tremendous benefit. But I think that you're on the right track with your "magic tags" idea. I think it would be really cool to have all the info for all the different versions in the same place, and have the default be to include them all; but also have the ability to define something in the environment so that you could include only the relevant bits if you wanted to build the docs for a specific version. Ideally such a system would also include minor versions for those rare situations that we change a methodology within a branch. Of course this is just talk, I don't have the time to actually make this happen unfortunately, but perhaps someone else will be interested/motivated to make it happen? Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 8 08:54:18 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD28106566B; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 08:54:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60BA58FC15; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 08:54:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iage36 with SMTP id e36so3437712iag.13 for ; Sat, 08 Oct 2011 01:54:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Lc3Qx6hzUuZXNKQQ652xl4sq516TD/fmU8rleLkBvhc=; b=DvIhBkpyhUo1nzXcaQqHzJaCUz3Ca4XPeePtmmG5IfzLOzUVPMgr9oeA4JXSC1jX7Z 9eN6oVGEO1YPE6OGvVcgMUgc580HLG1dc2lmqKYV1ritE4zHN4L5ojiw/gevVlbh2go4 zO/ZNKAcwWfqr9656c3te0qfijgNfcmMuuoZE= Received: by 10.231.69.80 with SMTP id y16mr4884428ibi.34.1318062514198; Sat, 08 Oct 2011 01:28:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: utisoft@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.35.194 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 01:28:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20111007221736.GQ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> <20111007221736.GQ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> From: Chris Rees Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:28:04 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: yFMdCV0qz8eVN_saxQe5sbF8Nhs Message-ID: To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Rene Ladan , Gavin Atkinson , doc@freebsd.org, doceng@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 08:54:18 -0000 On 7 October 2011 23:17, Ulrich Sp=F6rlein wrote: > On Fri, 2011-10-07 at 22:15:57 +0100, Gavin Atkinson wrote: >> > > I haven't really thought that through to the end, but setting up a >> > > separate svn repo just seems silly to me and is another administrati= ve >> > > overhead. ports might be special enough (due to sheer size) to justi= fy a >> > > separate repo/machine, but not doc/www. >> >> It may actually be easier, as all the infrastructure from the src repo c= an >> possibly be reused easily. =A0Combining them may be harder as more work >> would presumably need to be done on sorting out ACLs for src and doc >> committers, etc? > > Not really, it's just a couple of paths more. Every doc and ports > committer has write access to parts of the src tree, otherwise they > couldn't update the committers.dot or calender.freebsd entries > themselves. > Parts of the src tree? All the trees are free-for-all for anyone, it's just you get a nice suspiscious-looking THIS COMMITTER DOESN'T BELONG HERE tag in the commit message! Example: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/svn-src-all/2011-September/042703.html Chris From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 8 09:02:17 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A6C2106567F; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:02:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marc@blackend.org) Received: from smtp6-g21.free.fr (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0c:1:1599::15]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 015B68FC14; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:02:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from emphyrio.blackend.org (unknown [88.179.1.53]) by smtp6-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EDBD823E4; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:02:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from emphyrio.blackend.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by emphyrio.blackend.org (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p9893phc002246; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:03:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc@emphyrio.blackend.org) Received: (from marc@localhost) by emphyrio.blackend.org (8.14.5/8.14.4/Submit) id p9893p3Q002245; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:03:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc) Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:03:51 +0200 From: Marc Fonvieille To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20111008090351.GA1960@emphyrio.blackend.org> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> <4E8F8873.4030006@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4E8F8873.4030006@FreeBSD.org> X-Useless-Header: blackend.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Ulrich =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sp=F6rlein?= , Rene Ladan , Gavin Atkinson , doc@FreeBSD.org, doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 09:02:17 -0000 On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 04:17:07PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > On 10/07/2011 14:15, Gavin Atkinson wrote: > > On Fri, 7 Oct 2011, Rene Ladan wrote: > >> Op 07-10-2011 16:13, Ulrich Sp?rlein schreef: > >>> it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www > >>> repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought > >>> about it but already played around with conversions. > >>> > >>> gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up > >>> with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also > >>> lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. > >>> > >>> What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > >>> src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > >>> conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > >>> /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > >>> everything back on. > > > > The more I think about this, the less I like the idea. I really don't > > like the idea of having revision numbers which no longer increase with > > commit date (i.e. having revisions 1-250,000 correspond to the existing > > src tree, 250,000-300,000 being the imported doc tree, and then the > > combined repo being 300,001 onwards). > > I'm sorry, I don't understand your concern here. The commit ids > increment monotonically in svn, and the number is global to the whole > repo. Given that the individual files won't be increasing to a > deterministic value, I don't understand why we care what the actual > number is. > [...] Till now, in this thread, no one really thought about translators. Having many version of the same doc will kill translators effort cause they could not follow. It's already difficult to follow the current doc tree, so I imagine what will happen when there will be a -CURRENT, -STABLE, -WHATEVER branch to follow... The other concern is about the numbers mentioned above, if you use to translate docs, the current CVS numbering scheme is really interesting to follow revision of one file, with SVN we'll loose that. This said I'm not against a VCS change but it should be done in a wise way and not to add things that we could not support cause of lack of manpower or interest. And before doing the change, some things should be done: complete separation between release docs and doc/, a possible move from SGML to XML, a trim or update of outdated things, a move from teTeX to a more modern LaTeX (if XML tools allow it), etc. Well, a lot of work... -- Marc From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 8 09:13:10 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B0A106564A; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:13:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FF58FC13; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:13:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p989D3FL051546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:13:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:13:02 +0200 From: Ulrich =?utf-8?B?U3DDtnJsZWlu?= To: Marc Fonvieille Message-ID: <20111008091302.GR26743@acme.spoerlein.net> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> <4E8F8873.4030006@FreeBSD.org> <20111008090351.GA1960@emphyrio.blackend.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20111008090351.GA1960@emphyrio.blackend.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Rene Ladan , Doug Barton , doc@FreeBSD.org, Gavin Atkinson , doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 09:13:10 -0000 On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 11:03:51 +0200, Marc Fonvieille wrote: > On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 04:17:07PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > > On 10/07/2011 14:15, Gavin Atkinson wrote: > > > On Fri, 7 Oct 2011, Rene Ladan wrote: > > >> Op 07-10-2011 16:13, Ulrich Sp?rlein schreef: > > >>> it looks like I'm not the only one thinking about moving the doc/www > > >>> repos from CVS to SVN, and other people actually have not only thought > > >>> about it but already played around with conversions. > > >>> > > >>> gavin did some preliminary conversions and it turns out that we end up > > >>> with ~50k revisions and about 650MB of changes (IIRC). There are also > > >>> lots of weird branches, so perhaps we could size that down a bit. > > >>> > > >>> What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > > >>> src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > > >>> conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > > >>> /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > > >>> everything back on. > > > > > > The more I think about this, the less I like the idea. I really don't > > > like the idea of having revision numbers which no longer increase with > > > commit date (i.e. having revisions 1-250,000 correspond to the existing > > > src tree, 250,000-300,000 being the imported doc tree, and then the > > > combined repo being 300,001 onwards). > > > > I'm sorry, I don't understand your concern here. The commit ids > > increment monotonically in svn, and the number is global to the whole > > repo. Given that the individual files won't be increasing to a > > deterministic value, I don't understand why we care what the actual > > number is. > > > [...] > > Till now, in this thread, no one really thought about translators. > Having many version of the same doc will kill translators effort cause > they could not follow. It's already difficult to follow the current doc > tree, so I imagine what will happen when there will be a -CURRENT, > -STABLE, -WHATEVER branch to follow... Thanks for bringing up another view on this. If we decide to go from 1 branch to N branches, the bets are really off as to how big N is going to be ... > The other concern is about the numbers mentioned above, if you use to > translate docs, the current CVS numbering scheme is really interesting > to follow revision of one file, with SVN we'll loose that. Would merge properties help to track which revisions of the original docs have been "merged" into Dutch, German, etc? That way you can use the svn mergeinfo --show-revs=eligible /path to give you a list of revisions to look at. > This said I'm not against a VCS change but it should be done in a wise > way and not to add things that we could not support cause of lack of > manpower or interest. And before doing the change, some things should > be done: complete separation between release docs and doc/, a possible > move from SGML to XML, a trim or update of outdated things, a move from > teTeX to a more modern LaTeX (if XML tools allow it), etc. Well, a lot > of work... I think that the move to SVN should be done *before* the move to XML, or the split of release docs, as we can track file renames better in SVN than in CVS of course. Cheers, Uli From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 8 10:21:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB59106566B; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 10:21:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@nitro.dk) Received: from emx.nitro.dk (emx.nitro.dk [IPv6:2a01:4f8:120:7384::102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A9B8FC0C; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 10:21:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailscan.leto.nitro.dk (mailscan.leto.nitro.dk [127.0.1.4]) by emx.nitro.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5403411AED7; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 10:21:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from emx.nitro.dk ([127.0.1.2]) by mailscan.leto.nitro.dk (mailscan.leto.nitro.dk [127.0.1.4]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id kc7yyjQxrzrH; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 10:20:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.4.21] (unknown [188.141.45.153]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by emx.nitro.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 76AF611AED0; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 10:20:54 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "Simon L. B. Nielsen" In-Reply-To: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:20:53 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <12F4B555-D14F-492C-9AC7-669BA33A0AF6@nitro.dk> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:21:01 -0000 On 7 Oct 2011, at 15:13, Ulrich Sp=F6rlein wrote: > What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > everything back on. The advantages of having one repo need to be significant as the = disadvantages are certainly there. For svn to perform in the current = setup all of the repo basically need to fit into RAM - one large repo = makes this harder as we can't split on multiple servers as needed later. Also, please think of ports - I really doubt src and ports will fit into = same repo nicely... I'm not really sure where you would fit doc into the current repo... = head/ etc. is on the top level. --=20 Simon L. B. Nielsen From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 8 12:04:51 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5551065670; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 12:04:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from acme.spoerlein.net (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6436D8FC12; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 12:04:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (acme.spoerlein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:23c2::1]) by acme.spoerlein.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p98C4lNb073654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 8 Oct 2011 14:04:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uqs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 14:04:46 +0200 From: Ulrich =?utf-8?B?U3DDtnJsZWlu?= To: "Simon L. B. Nielsen" Message-ID: <20111008120446.GU26743@acme.spoerlein.net> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <12F4B555-D14F-492C-9AC7-669BA33A0AF6@nitro.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <12F4B555-D14F-492C-9AC7-669BA33A0AF6@nitro.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 12:04:51 -0000 On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 11:20:53 +0100, Simon L. B. Nielsen wrote: > > On 7 Oct 2011, at 15:13, Ulrich Spörlein wrote: > > > What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo as > > src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the > > conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it (under > > /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then turn > > everything back on. > > The advantages of having one repo need to be significant as the > disadvantages are certainly there. For svn to perform in the current > setup all of the repo basically need to fit into RAM - one large repo > makes this harder as we can't split on multiple servers as needed > later. I doubt that the 650MB of doc/www repo will make a difference here. If they do, consider me volunteering to buy 2-4GB RAM for the servers this is running on. By the current growth rate, this 650MB drop will only shorten the time till it grows too large (whatever that may be) about a year or so. It doesn't double the size or anything. svn repo size around May 2010: 4419MB svn repo size now: 6216MB So do you really think that a 10% bump will spell the end of the world? There's no point in splitting load 10:1 ... > Also, please think of ports - I really doubt src and ports will fit > into same repo nicely... As I stated earlier, I'm not advocating moving ports into the same repo. I'm not that crazy ... > I'm not really sure where you would fit doc into the current repo... > head/ etc. is on the top level. /doc and /www would be the obvious choices. Ed even jokingly (??) said we should just rename /head to /src ... not sure I concur. Uli From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 8 16:17:06 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E752106566C; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:17:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@nitro.dk) Received: from emx.nitro.dk (emx.nitro.dk [IPv6:2a01:4f8:120:7384::102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1396A8FC17; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:17:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailscan.leto.nitro.dk (mailscan.leto.nitro.dk [127.0.1.4]) by emx.nitro.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2838D11BEFE; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:17:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from emx.nitro.dk ([127.0.1.2]) by mailscan.leto.nitro.dk (mailscan.leto.nitro.dk [127.0.1.4]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id wzfqtJ5Rs9Tn; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:17:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.4.21] (unknown [188.141.45.153]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by emx.nitro.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F315011BEF0; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:16:59 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "Simon L. B. Nielsen" In-Reply-To: <20111008120446.GU26743@acme.spoerlein.net> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 17:16:59 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4084CDBA-C96D-4D3E-9F99-9F64C68B187D@nitro.dk> References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <12F4B555-D14F-492C-9AC7-669BA33A0AF6@nitro.dk> <20111008120446.GU26743@acme.spoerlein.net> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) Cc: doceng@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 16:17:06 -0000 On 8 Oct 2011, at 13:04, Ulrich Sp=F6rlein wrote: > On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 11:20:53 +0100, Simon L. B. Nielsen wrote: >>=20 >> On 7 Oct 2011, at 15:13, Ulrich Sp=F6rlein wrote: >>=20 >>> What I, personally, would like to see is us using the same svn repo = as >>> src. That means we would have to stop svn.freebsd.org for the >>> conversion, turn off email sending, dump 50k revisions into it = (under >>> /doc and /www perhaps? where should branches/tags end up?), then = turn >>> everything back on. >>=20 >> The advantages of having one repo need to be significant as the >> disadvantages are certainly there. For svn to perform in the current >> setup all of the repo basically need to fit into RAM - one large repo >> makes this harder as we can't split on multiple servers as needed >> later. >=20 > I doubt that the 650MB of doc/www repo will make a difference here. OK, it's smaller than I recalled - so that part less not an issue for = main servers. >> Also, please think of ports - I really doubt src and ports will fit >> into same repo nicely... >=20 > As I stated earlier, I'm not advocating moving ports into the same = repo. > I'm not that crazy ... My main point was that if ports is still separate, I don't think we gain = much by merging src and doc. >> I'm not really sure where you would fit doc into the current repo... >> head/ etc. is on the top level. >=20 > /doc and /www would be the obvious choices. Ed even jokingly (??) said Well, that seems like a bit of a mess as you mainly have branches at = that level... > we should just rename /head to /src ... not sure I concur. Considering we have stable etc. on the same level that seems like a bad = thing to do... Regardless, if it should be one repo (I'm still not convinced at all it = buys us anything useful) Peter need to sign off on it and say it's the = right way to go - at least for me to touch it. --=20 Simon L. B. Nielsen From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 8 21:23:14 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B13B1065670; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 21:23:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 172-17-198-245.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB22F14D957; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 21:23:09 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4E90BF3D.5020207@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:23:09 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111001 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Fonvieille References: <20111007141312.GJ26743@acme.spoerlein.net> <4E8F0AA2.3020704@freebsd.org> <4E8F8873.4030006@FreeBSD.org> <20111008090351.GA1960@emphyrio.blackend.org> In-Reply-To: <20111008090351.GA1960@emphyrio.blackend.org> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulrich_Sp=F6rlein?= , Rene Ladan , Gavin Atkinson , doc@FreeBSD.org, doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Conversion to SVN X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 21:23:14 -0000 On 10/08/2011 02:03, Marc Fonvieille wrote: > Till now, in this thread, no one really thought about translators. My hope was that someone more familiar with the issues there would bring it up. :) -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/