From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 27 11:07:16 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB7F106566B for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:07:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DB28FC1D for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:07:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5RB7Gdb072035 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:07:16 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p5RB7GQk072031 for freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:07:16 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:07:16 GMT Message-Id: <201106271107.p5RB7GQk072031@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:07:16 -0000 Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o ports/157572 x11 [patch] update x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati to 6.14.2 o ports/157167 x11 port x11/xrx build fails when www/libxul is installed o ports/156949 x11 x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati 6.14.1 produce black blank o ports/156721 x11 [PATCH] x11-servers/xorg-server Fix bug 24703 EXA cras o ports/156424 x11 8.2R xrandr & xf86-video-intel & xorg-server packages o ports/156405 x11 x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati driver: no hardware renderi o ports/156369 x11 x11-drivers/xf86-video-vmware: DPI value wrong calcula o ports/156368 x11 x11-drivers/xf86-video-vmware: pwcview does not work o ports/156042 x11 x11/xorg hang in combination with KWin-Tiling o ports/155696 x11 [patch] x11-servers/xorg-server: chase AIGLX altered d o ports/155683 x11 x11/xdm [patch] Enabling IPv6 support breaks IPv4 o ports/155598 x11 x11/xcalc is missing minor dependencies o ports/154651 x11 [PATCH] graphics/dri: make it possible to choose which o ports/154510 x11 [patch] x11/xorg: xorg servers have Motif-crippling bu o ports/154449 x11 x11/xorg: missing manpage (7) Xsecurity o ports/154423 x11 x11-drivers/xf86-video-radeonhd: radeon xorg driver ca o ports/153593 x11 graphics/dri: clutter segfault, something to do with i o ports/153495 x11 x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati wavy line problem for lenov o ports/153358 x11 x11-drivers/xf86-video-intel: Intel driver freeze with o ports/152159 x11 [hang] xorg/x11: X11 freezes with Intel Mobile 965 and o ports/151596 x11 x11/xorg: wacom bamboo button 1 no longer works o ports/150633 x11 x11-servers/xorg-server: KVM switching causing X serve o ports/150594 x11 [patch] graphics/dri: add support for ATI Radeon HD 42 o ports/150155 x11 x11/xorg hangs after xrandr(1) usage o ports/149743 x11 x11/xorg: garbled window since Xorg-7.5 o ports/149636 x11 x11/xorg: buffer overflow in pci_device_freebsd_read_r o ports/148591 x11 information note for x11-drivers/xf86-input-synaptics o ports/148444 x11 [hang] x11-drivers/xf86-video-intel: intel driver free f ports/148340 x11 x11-drivers/xf86-video-neomagic: unresolved symbol xf8 o ports/147318 x11 [Patch]graphics/libdrm:Fix the PLIST when define WITHO o ports/147267 x11 PORT graphics/libglut should conflict with graphics/fr o ports/147149 x11 x11/xorg: Xorg 7.5 hangs o ports/146473 x11 keysym names are unavailable to x11/xmodmap after upgr o ports/146460 x11 x11/xorg: crash after upgrade to v7.5 with radeon driv o ports/146321 x11 x11/libSM picks the wrong uuid.h o ports/146256 x11 x11/xorg does fails to start after upgrade from 7.4 to o ports/145649 x11 x11/xorg: X server crashes when starting opengl compos o ports/144598 x11 Makefile / pkg-plist issue with x11-drivers/xf86-video o ports/142069 x11 x11/xorg: After adding on a laptop Toshiba Sattelite L o ports/141853 x11 x11/xorg: X doesn't start with 'intel' (Asus P5QPL-AM o ports/141660 x11 x11/xorg: X can't determine amount of video memory on o ports/139011 x11 [patch] Add options to support GLX TLS in x11-servers o ports/137748 x11 x11/xorg: "unprocessed" mouse click results in effecti o ports/135276 x11 x11/xorg: GUI running first time only while using Free o ports/134132 x11 x11-servers/xorg-server: Intel i845 - xorg.conf with U f ports/132621 x11 x11/xorg tries to install event when deselected o ports/132403 x11 x11/xorg with Radeon X600 (R370): cannot re-initialize o ports/131930 x11 [PATCH] x11-servers/xorg-server coredumps on exit o ports/131726 x11 x11-servers/xorg-server: xorg server messes with my eh s kern/130478 x11 [request] Port Linux kernel stub of nouveau to FreeBSD o ports/122830 x11 x11/xorg: Error in I830WaitLpRing() o ports/120947 x11 x11/xsm ignores system.xsm and .xsmstartup o kern/118962 x11 [agp] Intel GMA 3000 Video Controller Not Recognized U s ports/117907 x11 x11-servers/mga_hal broken on 7.0-BETA (GLIBC error) o kern/103733 x11 [agp] i915 driver on hp dc7100: device not recognized 55 problems total. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 27 14:09:21 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2EC7106566B for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:09:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D3C8FC1B for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:09:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vxg33 with SMTP id 33so4751597vxg.13 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 07:09:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=P+TvXsYnS/zReFDxIjhTH9m4hx9r6GI2CImxzaVU77A=; b=AuMrc/xfkuUohwSfh7vLkIYkeDlbxTQBDWQr22Cc6eb9gacrUr/et1xuecs/3hQDk6 a0QVejCv31Nuq/UDjY/syq7eMShaAgVP5PKKActTB/L1ggGSvPSs2NMAkMYll4yt3yA0 Lk+aaX0pDKbkezHyNXjkLxkOEb8jssLfGNRXU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=ZRcYMf2XcLa2EX1Ly0MCd7sI82NrfKnaN5yOo63G1mwc/FyPzboyzK5/csYRnRafjQ d+KY0FNYqXuToZ0fTkDtHfBe9DO1c/3dd+KKypPRTJvW0IEHZYFV+zzRDGffXPF/06Qo 1K6JJbRQ59TCJPJpl+Mv1mJj1ZS/+CB4sybTo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.74.74 with SMTP id r10mr8373783vdv.212.1309183760667; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 07:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.4 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2011 07:09:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <4E0477EA.10805@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:09:20 +0100 Message-ID: From: Tom Evans To: Kevin Oberman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:09:21 -0000 On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: > Worse, NVIDIA has stated that they have no plans to ever supply Optimus > support for OSes other than Windows. > > Just to be clear, are you running the nv driver from Xorg or the separate > NVIDIA-driver port? Both should work, but nv will not work well. > I run the nvidia supplied drivers, and they do run well. Full 2D/3D acceleration and video codec acceleration (mplayer+vdpau) is a combination that no other graphics card/driver hits on FreeBSD. I used to struggle with the intel drivers, but they just got progressively slower and slower and less functional. Cheers Tom From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 28 18:17:16 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C656E106564A for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:17:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patfbsd@davenulle.org) Received: from smtp.lamaiziere.net (net.lamaiziere.net [91.121.44.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8612A8FC16 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:17:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baby-jane.lamaiziere.net (6.176.97.84.rev.sfr.net [84.97.176.6]) by smtp.lamaiziere.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E33C8633EB4; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:17:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baby-jane.lamaiziere.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA336734B6; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:17:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:17:15 +0200 From: Patrick Lamaiziere To: Michal Varga Message-ID: <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> In-Reply-To: <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.9 (GTK+ 2.22.1; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:17:16 -0000 Le Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:56:22 +0200, Michal Varga a écrit : > Nvidia GTX 460 works perfectly fine on FreeBSD and same goes for any > modern/supported Nvidia hardware (which is basically all of them, save > for some brain-dead stuff like Nvidia Optimus). Here it does not work. Watching a video is enought to freeze the box (using the Xvideo extension). I've tried all the drivers available from Nvidia with various issues. > Your stability issues are most probably caused by something else, or > at least something more specific than simple combination of Nvidia > 460 and FreeBSD. That could be. But this is very hard to find the cause, I've moved from amd64 to i386 to see, and reverted to ad0 instead using ada0. I'm sure the hardware is working fine (checked memory, works very well on Windows 2008). I know that should work, I've got a Macbook pro (nvidia) that works nicely and my previous machine worked fine too. Anyway, I would not say that NVidia always works, that is my fourth box using a nvidia card and only two cards worked well (since FreeBSD 4.7). So my question is still open: "Could you tell me a graphic card (pci express) that will work fine on FreeBSD? (If i can use a dual screen it will be better)" Thanks, regards. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 28 20:34:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9949A106567C for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:34:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akirchhoff135014@comcast.net) Received: from qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC408FC1F for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:34:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta22.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.73]) by qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1XyX1h0061ap0As53YMVMH; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:21:29 +0000 Received: from sorrow.ashke.com ([174.57.84.251]) by omta22.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1YMK1h00L5RMJ3S3iYMR5K; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:21:27 +0000 Message-ID: <4E0A37BE.6090900@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:21:18 -0400 From: Adam K Kirchhoff User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110505 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick Lamaiziere References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> In-Reply-To: <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:34:44 -0000 On 06/28/11 14:17, Patrick Lamaiziere wrote: > Le Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:56:22 +0200, > Michal Varga a écrit : > >> Nvidia GTX 460 works perfectly fine on FreeBSD and same goes for any >> modern/supported Nvidia hardware (which is basically all of them, save >> for some brain-dead stuff like Nvidia Optimus). > Here it does not work. Watching a video is enought to freeze the box > (using the Xvideo extension). I've tried all the drivers available from > Nvidia with various issues. Long ago I gave up on getting a stable system with the nvidia drivers. > That could be. But this is very hard to find the cause, I've moved from > amd64 to i386 to see, and reverted to ad0 instead using ada0. > I'm sure the hardware is working fine (checked memory, works very well > on Windows 2008). > > I know that should work, I've got a Macbook pro (nvidia) that works > nicely and my previous machine worked fine too. > > Anyway, I would not say that NVidia always works, that is my fourth > box using a nvidia card and only two cards worked well (since FreeBSD > 4.7). > > So my question is still open: > > "Could you tell me a graphic card (pci express) that will work fine > on FreeBSD? (If i can use a dual screen it will be better)" Unfortunately, modern non-nvidia video cards can be problematic on FreeBSD. I think the only ones that are going "work"** are from AMD. Any radeon card up to and including the HD4950 will provide 2D and basic 3D acceleration, including modesetting on two monitors via xrandr. Separate screens will break acceleration (as will xinerama) so you pretty much have to use xrandr. 3D acceleration is good enough for some light games and/or 3D compositing with kwin/compiz. If you need to use 3D acceleration on a linux application, you will want to use FreeBSD/i386 as DRI doesn't work with linux apps on AMD64 at the moment. There is no kernel modesetting, so there is no DRI2 or gallium3d. You should be able to get 2D acceleration and full modesetting on HD5xxx GPUs. No 3D (not without KMS). There is no acceleration or modesetting for HD6xxx GPUs without KMS, so don't get one of those. ** A few caveats and the reason for the quotes around work... A) QT apps often have serious rendering issues. This is true on Linux when not using KMS, too, but the driver developers don't care much about bugs with the UMS path these days. B) On one machine of mine, if I restart X, the entire box locks up within seconds. There is no kernel panic dumped to the serial console, so I know no way of debugging this further. If I have to restart X for some reason, I must reboot. C) Previously, on this machine, before adding an extra 2 gigs of memory, if I restarted X, Xorg complained about not being able to allocate enough RAM, and Direct Rendering would be disabled, so I'd be running entirely without 2D acceleration. Unloading and reloading the radeon kld would simply prevent X from starting. D) I know on IRC this is at least one person for whom the radeon driver will completely lock their machine solid as soon as X starts. All in all, the lack of KMS is really impacts the usability of FreeBSD on the desktop for those of us who can't/won't use nvidia. As far as I know, there is no one working on KMS for radeon cards, and there has been no progress update on the KMS work being done for Intel GPUs. In addition, KMS for intel wouldn't do you much good anyway, as Intel doesn't make discreet PCIe cards. Having said all that... There may be GPUs from other manufacturers that can be bought on discrete PCIe cards that have drivers for Xorg. Full xrandr (to drive two monitors) is likely not supported on anything other than radeon cards, though. Adam From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 28 23:48:06 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427421065670 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:48:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varga.michal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6858FC15 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:48:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxe6 with SMTP id 6so619424fxe.17 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:48:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:organization :date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eHX6cnFJlrZesmrnlyYyeRdqLf+Hssu2CELKjKA5QEg=; b=F9JfCr0hEFEFlHGDauYlldhn1yNXpKSN5ipzl/fnjDli6bLqMa14Bwdb9N1nxG4Hqt q+YGFjfsBI2Wa6+LFzhBSgqL0V+S6AgRzD7dydxu8pU1rsY+26QTbey7kxpCNVHUNzT4 2ozoSG+NbmZJ1ASolj05e0aRNzqZuD35+fwTs= Received: by 10.223.71.194 with SMTP id i2mr231446faj.42.1309304884658; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.101.2] (254.166.broadband10.iol.cz [90.177.166.254]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm2556299faz.0.2011.06.28.16.48.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:48:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michal Varga To: Patrick Lamaiziere In-Reply-To: <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Organization: Stonehenge Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:48:00 +0200 Message-ID: <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:48:06 -0000 On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 20:17 +0200, Patrick Lamaiziere wrote: > Le Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:56:22 +0200, > Michal Varga a écrit : > > > Nvidia GTX 460 works perfectly fine on FreeBSD and same goes for any > > modern/supported Nvidia hardware (which is basically all of them, save > > for some brain-dead stuff like Nvidia Optimus). > > Here it does not work. Watching a video is enought to freeze the box > (using the Xvideo extension). I've tried all the drivers available from > Nvidia with various issues. > Is it possible that your're actually running VDPAU-enabled video acceleration under compositor, i.e. metacity WM in compositing mode (which is non-default btw)? That's one (and probably the only one in the wild) known cause that produces random, but quite frequent freezes. This is as far as I know still unresolved by Nvidia, but also probably very low on their to-do list, for obvious reasons. > Anyway, I would not say that NVidia always works, that is my fourth > box using a nvidia card and only two cards worked well (since FreeBSD > 4.7). > > So my question is still open: > > "Could you tell me a graphic card (pci express) that will work fine > on FreeBSD? (If i can use a dual screen it will be better)" > > Thanks, regards. I can only say it again - aside from the known compositor issue (which is pretty specifically narrowed down and thus easy to avoid, if only by disabling metacity compositing), there are tons of people running Nvidia hardware under FreeBSD without any issues, and even by a magnitude more under Linux (it might look that that's unrelated, but with the way Nvidia builds their drivers, it actually is). So, to your (repeated) question. There is only one graphics card manufacturer that actually PRODUCES drivers for FreeBSD. That is Nvidia. Intel drivers are horrible crap, but someone already stated that somewhere in this thread (and too much politely by the way). AMD, both hardware and software is a joke, even under Linux, where they actually have *some* driver support, they're a terrible joke (and nobody laughs, especially the owners). Open source drivers for their hardware are something... where... well, where you can sometimes display 2D graphics. Some of those times even without issues and glitches. What else exactly would you want to use? VIA (absolutely no support under Linux, absolutely absolutely completely none support under FreeBSD)? Matrox? Ahem. Ok, let's stop right there. You already own Nvidia hardware (which alone is the best choice you have anyway), and from what I've seen, at least a few people already told you that Nvidia hardware works. It's your choice and your time of course, so you can spend it either on trying to narrow down your Nvidia issue, which must be pretty exotic that it bites only you while so many people enjoy working Nvidia products, or you can spend (read: waste) it on looking for something that doesn't exist. The thing that doesn't exist is *other* graphics card manufacturer that actually supports FreeBSD. It's your choice, again. m. -- Michal Varga, Stonehenge (Gmail account) From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 00:47:14 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01AAA106564A for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:47:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichray@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E17B8FC1B for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:47:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxe6 with SMTP id 6so643866fxe.17 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:47:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mLlNy3yA6kSODIrpdLJXv2z5FobfwViwskEm79NqJDY=; b=m6PfrujDHyqryLDALNsjBMbZG2wVJklzDSkPy2huUuscsE5chxLVcYbyXPgzk4kHd0 4+Lqih64wJqMZIZ+rjzx82SeaiVslT98nDNCrsscPr1Ya4G04Kh8/GSD7BjQXQj6Qa3E f6c4xWyWj+HV2iFiTnqGW9D8uV/BOvX+z4jdw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.3.71 with SMTP id 7mr286186fam.7.1309306918797; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.95.195 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:21:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 19:21:58 -0500 Message-ID: From: Zhihao Yuan To: Michal Varga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:47:14 -0000 On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Michal Varga wrot= e: > On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 20:17 +0200, Patrick Lamaiziere wrote: >> Le Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:56:22 +0200, >> Michal Varga a =C3=A9crit : >> >> > Nvidia GTX 460 works perfectly fine on FreeBSD and same goes for any >> > modern/supported Nvidia hardware (which is basically all of them, save >> > for some brain-dead stuff like Nvidia Optimus). >> >> Here it does not work. Watching a video is enought to freeze the box >> (using the Xvideo extension). I've tried all the drivers available from >> Nvidia with various issues. >> > > Is it possible that your're actually running VDPAU-enabled video > acceleration under compositor, i.e. metacity WM in compositing mode > (which is non-default btw)? > > That's one (and probably the only one in the wild) known cause that > produces random, but quite frequent freezes. > > This is as far as I know still unresolved by Nvidia, but also probably > very low on their to-do list, for obvious reasons. > So you agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable. I agree with it because my roommate has 2 boxes running Nvidia cards and their official binary drivers. He suffered from the unstable video and the incomplete Xcomposite supports a lot. > >> Anyway, I would not say that NVidia always works, that is my fourth >> box using a nvidia card and only two cards worked well (since FreeBSD >> 4.7). >> >> So my question is still open: >> >> "Could you tell me a graphic card (pci express) that will work fine >> on FreeBSD? (If i can use a dual screen it will be better)" >> >> Thanks, regards. > > I can only say it again - aside from the known compositor issue (which > is pretty specifically narrowed down and thus easy to avoid, if only by > disabling metacity compositing), there are tons of people running Nvidia > hardware under FreeBSD without any issues, and even by a magnitude more > under Linux (it might look that that's unrelated, but with the way > Nvidia builds their drivers, it actually is). > > > So, to your (repeated) question. > > > There is only one graphics card manufacturer that actually PRODUCES > drivers for FreeBSD. That is Nvidia. Yes, and no. Nvidia provides closed source drivers only, and never helps open source drivers. As what you have agreed with: when their drivers are not stable, or even their drivers introduce security problems, you can do nothing. You have no choice but be at their mercy. > > Intel drivers are horrible crap, but someone already stated that > somewhere in this thread (and too much politely by the way). > > AMD, both hardware and software is a joke, even under Linux, where they > actually have *some* driver support, they're a terrible joke (and nobody > laughs, especially the owners). Open source drivers for their hardware > are something... where... well, where you can sometimes display 2D > graphics. Some of those times even without issues and glitches. But AMD/ATI supports the development of the open source drivers. Now xf86-video-ati driver supports full 2D acceleration, xrander, anti-tears, KMS, basic 3D acceleration... what Nvidia has? Unstable vdpau? And also, when we meet problems, we can check ATI documents and modify the source code. Just compare the quality of xf86-video-ati and xf86-video-nouveau, and you will know which cards are better choice. > > What else exactly would you want to use? VIA (absolutely no support > under Linux, absolutely absolutely completely none support under > FreeBSD)? > > Matrox? > > Ahem. Ok, let's stop right there. > > You already own Nvidia hardware (which alone is the best choice you have > anyway), and from what I've seen, at least a few people already told you > that Nvidia hardware works. > > It's your choice and your time of course, so you can spend it either on > trying to narrow down your Nvidia issue, which must be pretty exotic > that it bites only you while so many people enjoy working Nvidia > products, or you can spend (read: waste) it on looking for something > that doesn't exist. The thing that doesn't exist is *other* graphics > card manufacturer that actually supports FreeBSD. It's your choice, > again. > No. They are not supporting FreeBSD. They are weakening and destroying the philosophy of FreeBSD and Open Source communities with their unstable, buggy, and insecure favors. > m. > > -- > Michal Varga, > Stonehenge (Gmail account) > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-x11@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-x11-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 Zhihao Yuan, nickname lichray The best way to predict the future is to invent it. ___________________________________________________ 4BSD -- http://4bsd.biz/ From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 00:53:28 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B063106564A for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:53:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varga.michal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0CD8FC14 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:53:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxe6 with SMTP id 6so646442fxe.17 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:53:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:organization :date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MVBVEmr8rKpFNUMlRpf4D7NzjSpoQzNDBZIuRQw+j2Y=; b=BcOjM26prHbQ8/8RbkNDqKlYMLX/e0E2CUJxhyOgkNPOEHKv47p3C4zFx6TXppmp14 qQsD+ccqDeHiZjNJ1wMRmwnOyZmxYAjN7ZmPhhsqdo+gN599g/Krtcf67QtHEQTo6CB+ e7lcyPRupATl/hzkWDD0eLJxzbrX2PISWrCvs= Received: by 10.223.61.134 with SMTP id t6mr308311fah.28.1309308806614; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.101.2] (254.166.broadband10.iol.cz [90.177.166.254]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y14sm469084fah.13.2011.06.28.17.53.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:53:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Michal Varga To: Zhihao Yuan In-Reply-To: References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Organization: Stonehenge Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:53:22 +0200 Message-ID: <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:53:28 -0000 On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 19:21 -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote: > So you agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable. No, I don't agree. Software has bugs. What a shocker. More news at eleven. > I agree with it > because my roommate has 2 boxes running Nvidia cards and their > official binary drivers. He suffered from the unstable video and the > incomplete Xcomposite supports a lot. There is no "unstable video" with Nvidia drivers. There is completely horribly totally locking video (along with the rest of the computer), IF: 1. you run VDPAU acceleration --> 2. you run it through metacity compositor (as far as I know, KDE compositor doesn't produce this effect, but I'm not a KDE user and I have no idea what they use, and how much and when does it apply). Some other compositors might trigger the same bug, I don't know. Metacity definitely does. This is a known issue. Software has bugs. If you hate it that much at this somewhat late hour, you're always free to write a better one, I guess. Or, as a workaround, you can turn off the (almost close to pointless) compositor until that specific issue gets solved. I did the latter and never lost my sleep because of it. > > There is only one graphics card manufacturer that actually PRODUCES > > drivers for FreeBSD. That is Nvidia. > > Yes, and no. Nvidia provides closed source drivers only, and never > helps open source drivers. Doesn't matter. Nvidia doesn't produce OPEN HARDWARE and I don't care for OPEN SOFTWARE from them for as long as they provide perfectly working drivers for my OS. This is situation I'm ok with for as long as all my Nvidia hardware works. Guess what. All my Nvidia hardware works, so far. And that "so far" stands for like "the last decade". > As what you have agreed with: when their > drivers are not stable, or even their drivers introduce security > problems, you can do nothing. You have no choice but be at their > mercy. Sorry, this has nothing to do with working or non working Nvidia drivers. I'm not into politics. And I'm at nobody's mercy, as I'm already perfectly capable of voting with my money. I buy Nvidia products because of their superb driver support under FreeBSD and because they work. When they stop, I might move to S3 ViRGE. I have my choices and I opted for the best currently available, I see no problem with that. > But AMD/ATI supports the development of the open source drivers. Please. > Now > xf86-video-ati driver supports full 2D acceleration, xrander, > anti-tears, KMS, basic 3D acceleration... Oh god please. Tell me you're trolling or that you've never actually ran anything under xf86-video-ati. You can't be serious. > what Nvidia has? Unstable vdpau? VDPAU is perfectly stable, thank you. Tens of thousands of people (hundreds? stats anyone?) are using it daily. I'm using it daily, and pretty heavily to that. > And also, when we meet problems, we can check ATI documents and > modify the source code. (This is... Ok, I'm not saying anything again as I simply can't believe you're serious...) > Just compare the quality of xf86-video-ati and > xf86-video-nouveau, and you will know which cards are better choice. I don't care for nouveau. Except for like three people in this world (and all three of them on Linux where nouveau actually works), nobody does. The talk was about Nvidia drivers and there is one kind of Nvidia drivers - the ones produced by Nvidia. > No. They are not supporting FreeBSD. They are weakening and destroying > the philosophy of FreeBSD and Open Source communities with their > unstable, buggy, and insecure favors. Hallelujah. Have a nice day. m. -- Michal Varga, Stonehenge (Gmail account) From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 01:26:13 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2AA51065675 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:26:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akirchhoff135014@comcast.net) Received: from qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78FCD8FC14 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:26:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.89]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1cyv1h0041vN32cAEdD1RW; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:13:01 +0000 Received: from sorrow.ashke.com ([174.57.84.251]) by omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1dCj1h00S5RMJ3S8idCjh1; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:12:44 +0000 Message-ID: <4E0A7C1A.7030302@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 21:12:58 -0400 From: Adam K Kirchhoff User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110505 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michal Varga References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> In-Reply-To: <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:26:13 -0000 On 06/28/11 20:53, Michal Varga wrote: > On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 19:21 -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote: >> So you agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable. > No, I don't agree. Software has bugs. What a shocker. More news at > eleven. > > >> I agree with it >> because my roommate has 2 boxes running Nvidia cards and their >> official binary drivers. He suffered from the unstable video and the >> incomplete Xcomposite supports a lot. > There is no "unstable video" with Nvidia drivers. There is completely > horribly totally locking video (along with the rest of the computer), > IF: > > 1. you run VDPAU acceleration --> > 2. you run it through metacity compositor (as far as I know, KDE > compositor doesn't produce this effect, but I'm not a KDE user and I > have no idea what they use, and how much and when does it apply). Some > other compositors might trigger the same bug, I don't know. Metacity > definitely does. > > This is a known issue. Software has bugs. If you hate it that much at > this somewhat late hour, you're always free to write a better one, I > guess. > > Or, as a workaround, you can turn off the (almost close to pointless) > compositor until that specific issue gets solved. I did the latter and > never lost my sleep because of it. Having spent plenty of time both using nvidia hardware and watching the nvnews linux and FreeBSD forums, I know that the nvidia drivers are not nearly as stable for everyone as they are for you. Just deal with this fact. Patrick is clearly unhappy with the nvidia drivers. Zhihao as well. As am I. So please stop trying to force users to your specific perspective. If you can't contribute positively to the conversation about what non-nvidia PCIe cards Patrick has to choose from, then please just stop talking. Adam From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 01:47:49 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF3F1065674 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:47:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichray@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079918FC14 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:47:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxe6 with SMTP id 6so671376fxe.17 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:47:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CE5M3i5RaJXa4DU64nHCkzU1iz4hunnHfJoacUEr/0U=; b=AlJLvYGlxT6dOUWgucy9rASK7C2cvE1b7bi6t+nrrAqekMrs/48NE0D7pTa9QVi75g qIbxkPkTQF5JZvkDOf0QpHD2PQ7QLUhazvuPPFe+xMDVeGgCJ0kGnWyGbYsziJMf0jmT 2ZDCZ59tV/WGWjnRQ3/VRlc04HEXX9fyDYx5Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.161.6 with SMTP id p6mr364575fax.83.1309312067895; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.95.195 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:47:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:47:47 -0500 Message-ID: From: Zhihao Yuan To: Michal Varga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:47:49 -0000 On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Michal Varga wrot= e: > On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 19:21 -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote: >> So you agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable. > > No, I don't agree. Software has bugs. What a shocker. More news at > eleven. > > >> I agree with it >> because my roommate has 2 boxes running Nvidia cards and their >> official binary drivers. He suffered from the unstable video and the >> incomplete Xcomposite supports a lot. > > There is no "unstable video" with Nvidia drivers. There is completely > horribly totally locking video (along with the rest of the computer), > IF: > > 1. you run VDPAU acceleration --> > 2. you run it through metacity compositor (as far as I know, KDE > compositor doesn't produce this effect, but I'm not a KDE user and I > have no idea what they use, and how much and when does it apply). Some > other compositors might trigger the same bug, I don't know. Metacity > definitely does. > > This is a known issue. Software has bugs. If you hate it that much at > this somewhat late hour, you're always free to write a better one, I > guess. > > Or, as a workaround, you can turn off the (almost close to pointless) > compositor until that specific issue gets solved. I did the latter and > never lost my sleep because of it. > So this time, you not just agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable, you agree with that you can do nothing with the driver, because you have no source code. You can only cut of your compositer, and wait Nvidia's mercy updates. They may fix this in next version, or may not. You already surrendered. > >> > There is only one graphics card manufacturer that actually PRODUCES >> > drivers for FreeBSD. That is Nvidia. >> >> Yes, and no. Nvidia provides closed source drivers only, and never >> helps open source drivers. > > Doesn't matter. Nvidia doesn't produce OPEN HARDWARE and I don't care > for OPEN SOFTWARE from them for as long as they provide perfectly > working drivers for my OS. This is situation I'm ok with for as long as > all my Nvidia hardware works. So you just turned compositer off when you meet problems. "I don't see it, so there is nothing.". Yea. > > Guess what. All my Nvidia hardware works, so far. And that "so far" > stands for like "the last decade". > My roommate what to tell you: 1. His mplayer can not resume after pause (WTH?); he needs to seek somewhere else and seek back; 2. In a previous version of Nvidia driver, system crashes whenever you fullscreen something. How benevolent Nvidia is! They fixed it in v270. > >> =C2=A0As what you have agreed with: when their >> drivers are not stable, or even their drivers introduce security >> problems, you can do nothing. You have no choice but be at their >> mercy. > > Sorry, this has nothing to do with working or non working Nvidia > drivers. I'm not into politics. And I'm at nobody's mercy, as I'm > already perfectly capable of voting with my money. I buy Nvidia products > because of their superb driver support under FreeBSD and because they > work. When they stop, I might move to S3 ViRGE. I have my choices and I > opted for the best currently available, I see no problem with that. > You can have choice, but without extensive statistics, you can not prove "Nvidia produce good drivers" to anybody, especially to our FreeBSD users. > >> But AMD/ATI supports the development of the open source drivers. > > Please. > >> =C2=A0Now >> xf86-video-ati driver supports full 2D acceleration, xrander, >> anti-tears, KMS, basic 3D acceleration... > > Oh god please. Tell me you're trolling or that you've never actually ran > anything under xf86-video-ati. You can't be serious. Of course I use it. My production system runs ATI Mobility X1600. I watch smoothy anti-tears 1080p video, play Urbanterror, enjoy compositer, switch screen mode with xrander when I go out for presentation. How about you? > > >> what Nvidia has? Unstable vdpau? > > VDPAU is perfectly stable, thank you. Tens of thousands of people > (hundreds? stats anyone?) are using it daily. I'm using it daily, and > pretty heavily to that. You mean... mplayer locks for 2 mins after played 5 videos can be called "perfectly stable"? > > >> And also, when we meet problems, we can check ATI documents and >> modify the source code. > > (This is... Ok, I'm not saying anything again as I simply can't believe > you're serious...) I'm serious. The reason that I'm maintaining ports for FreeBSD is that I found a problem in xf86-video-ati port and I feel sorry that I did not respond to the call of testing before the port got committed. > > >> Just compare the quality of xf86-video-ati and >> xf86-video-nouveau, and you will know which cards are better choice. > > I don't care for nouveau. Except for like three people in this world > (and all three of them on Linux where nouveau actually works), nobody > does. The talk was about Nvidia drivers and there is one kind of Nvidia > drivers - the ones produced by Nvidia. Ubuntu uses nouveau by default. BSDs communities are porting KMS. Want some more instances? > > >> No. They are not supporting FreeBSD. They are weakening and destroying >> the philosophy of FreeBSD and Open Source communities with their >> unstable, buggy, and insecure favors. > > Hallelujah. Have a nice day. > > m. > > > -- > Michal Varga, > Stonehenge (Gmail account) > > > --=20 Zhihao Yuan, nickname lichray The best way to predict the future is to invent it. ___________________________________________________ 4BSD -- http://4bsd.biz/ From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 08:36:47 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28BF1106564A for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:36:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brindza@teleperformance.sk) Received: from mail.teleperformance.sk (mail.teleperformance.sk [217.172.149.153]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B1EE78FC15 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:36:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.teleperformance.sk (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE65E025330 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:21:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.teleperformance.sk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.teleperformance.sk [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bczQ3slIe5dx for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:21:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.0.95] (unknown [10.0.0.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: brindza@teleperformance.sk) by mail.teleperformance.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BEF6E0246C9 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:21:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4E0AE083.8050901@teleperformance.sk> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:21:23 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?xL11Ym9tw61yIEJyaW5kemE=?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:36:47 -0000 On 29. 6. 2011 3:47, Zhihao Yuan wrote: > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Michal Varga wrote: >> On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 19:21 -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote: >>> So you agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable. >> No, I don't agree. Software has bugs. What a shocker. More news at >> eleven. >> >>> I agree with it >>> because my roommate has 2 boxes running Nvidia cards and their >>> official binary drivers. He suffered from the unstable video and the >>> incomplete Xcomposite supports a lot. >> There is no "unstable video" with Nvidia drivers. There is completely >> horribly totally locking video (along with the rest of the computer), >> IF: >> >> 1. you run VDPAU acceleration --> >> 2. you run it through metacity compositor (as far as I know, KDE >> compositor doesn't produce this effect, but I'm not a KDE user and I >> have no idea what they use, and how much and when does it apply). Some >> other compositors might trigger the same bug, I don't know. Metacity >> definitely does. >> >> This is a known issue. Software has bugs. If you hate it that much at >> this somewhat late hour, you're always free to write a better one, I >> guess. >> >> Or, as a workaround, you can turn off the (almost close to pointless) >> compositor until that specific issue gets solved. I did the latter and >> never lost my sleep because of it. >> > So this time, you not just agree with that Nvidia drivers are not > stable, you agree with that you can do nothing with the driver, > because you have no source code. You can only cut of your compositer, > and wait Nvidia's mercy updates. They may fix this in next version, or > may not. You already surrendered. > >>>> There is only one graphics card manufacturer that actually PRODUCES >>>> drivers for FreeBSD. That is Nvidia. >>> Yes, and no. Nvidia provides closed source drivers only, and never >>> helps open source drivers. >> Doesn't matter. Nvidia doesn't produce OPEN HARDWARE and I don't care >> for OPEN SOFTWARE from them for as long as they provide perfectly >> working drivers for my OS. This is situation I'm ok with for as long as >> all my Nvidia hardware works. > So you just turned compositer off when you meet problems. "I don't see > it, so there is nothing.". Yea. > >> Guess what. All my Nvidia hardware works, so far. And that "so far" >> stands for like "the last decade". > My roommate what to tell you: > 1. His mplayer can not resume after pause (WTH?); he needs to seek > somewhere else and seek back; > 2. In a previous version of Nvidia driver, system crashes whenever you > fullscreen something. How benevolent Nvidia is! They fixed it in v270 >>> As what you have agreed with: when their >>> drivers are not stable, or even their drivers introduce security >>> problems, you can do nothing. You have no choice but be at their >>> mercy. >> Sorry, this has nothing to do with working or non working Nvidia >> drivers. I'm not into politics. And I'm at nobody's mercy, as I'm >> already perfectly capable of voting with my money. I buy Nvidia products >> because of their superb driver support under FreeBSD and because they >> work. When they stop, I might move to S3 ViRGE. I have my choices and I >> opted for the best currently available, I see no problem with that. > You can have choice, but without extensive statistics, you can not > prove "Nvidia produce good drivers" to anybody, especially to our > FreeBSD users >>> But AMD/ATI supports the development of the open source drivers. >> Please. >>> Now >>> xf86-video-ati driver supports full 2D acceleration, xrander, >>> anti-tears, KMS, basic 3D acceleration... >> Oh god please. Tell me you're trolling or that you've never actually ran >> anything under xf86-video-ati. You can't be serious. > Of course I use it. My production system runs ATI Mobility X1600. I > watch smoothy anti-tears 1080p video, play Urbanterror, enjoy > compositer, switch screen mode with xrander when I go out for > presentation. How about you >>> what Nvidia has? Unstable vdpau? >> VDPAU is perfectly stable, thank you. Tens of thousands of people >> (hundreds? stats anyone?) are using it daily. I'm using it daily, and >> pretty heavily to that. > You mean... mplayer locks for 2 mins after played 5 videos can be > called "perfectly stable" >>> And also, when we meet problems, we can check ATI documents and >>> modify the source code. >> (This is... Ok, I'm not saying anything again as I simply can't believe >> you're serious...) > I'm serious. The reason that I'm maintaining ports for FreeBSD is that > I found a problem in xf86-video-ati port and I feel sorry that I did > not respond to the call of testing before the port got committed >>> Just compare the quality of xf86-video-ati and >>> xf86-video-nouveau, and you will know which cards are better choice. >> I don't care for nouveau. Except for like three people in this world >> (and all three of them on Linux where nouveau actually works), nobody >> does. The talk was about Nvidia drivers and there is one kind of Nvidia >> drivers - the ones produced by Nvidia. > Ubuntu uses nouveau by default. BSDs communities are porting KMS. Want > some more instances? *Someone* here's being overly dramatic. "Mercy updates"? "Surrendered"? To reply to the original question, I'm using Nvidia 9800 (a tad old, I know) in combination with official drivers without any detected problems so far. Granted, I'm not using any compositing, but that's my preference (turned on, wiggled a couple of windows and disabled it again). The issue regarding VDPAU might be true for me, but wouldn't know. I had to use ATI X200 for a while since my Nvidia 5700 burned out (which, aside from that, also worked without problems) which worked with the radeon driver pretty well (read: no crashes). I'm not going to pretend that I know the first thing about ATI open source drivers (or open-source drivers generally), but the general knowledge is that they just don't cut it for newer hardware. That might not be an issue with your card, since the X1600 is also several generations old. The official binary drivers don't have this drawback. Open source is fine, when it works. But if I have to choose between working closed-source and sorta-working open-source drivers, guess what. These are my results and your mileage will naturally vary. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 09:34:03 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC95106566B for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:34:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from l.pizzamiglio@bally-wulff.de) Received: from mail2.bally-wulff-berlin.de (mail2.bally-wulff-berlin.de [212.144.118.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 879908FC17 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:34:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bwex.bally-wulff.de (unknown [192.9.204.106]) by mail2.bally-wulff-berlin.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63AF399074; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:03:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pizzamig.bally.de ([192.9.205.30]) by bwex.bally-wulff.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:03:18 +0200 Message-ID: <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:03:16 +0200 From: Luca Pizzamiglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110622 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?xL11Ym9tw61yIEJyaW5kemE=?= References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> <4E0AE083.8050901@teleperformance.sk> In-Reply-To: <4E0AE083.8050901@teleperformance.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2011 09:03:18.0289 (UTC) FILETIME=[633E2810:01CC363B] Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:34:03 -0000 My 2 cents to this discussion... I currently use NVidia 450 GTS. It works fine, video and KDE with compositing runs pretty well. Yes, sometimes NVidia closed source FreeBSD driver has some bugs and you could not fix it. Yes, Nvidia closed source FreeBSD driver can turn on a lot of HW acceleration that open source driver can't. So, if you're lucky, you could use your powerful NVidia card without problem. if not, you should find and disable features that cause the problem or wait a new driver release, hoping that fix that issue (forum discussion could help!). It's hard to say: this NVidia board works without problem in all possible scenario! Graphic chips are too complex and too hidden to have high quality open sourced driver. Company should provide them... AMD helps open source community developing its driver, but it doesn't provide a really high quality driver. They works, but they don't enable a lot of acceleration. So, NVidia is still the best solution for me, but it's a compromise. If you want performance, NVidia is the best option, but if you enable too many features, you could have some stability issue. This is my personal experience. Good luck Luca On 06/29/11 10:21, Ľubomír Brindza wrote: > On 29. 6. 2011 3:47, Zhihao Yuan wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Michal Varga wrote: >>> On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 19:21 -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote: >>>> So you agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable. >>> No, I don't agree. Software has bugs. What a shocker. More news at >>> eleven. >>> >>>> I agree with it >>>> because my roommate has 2 boxes running Nvidia cards and their >>>> official binary drivers. He suffered from the unstable video and the >>>> incomplete Xcomposite supports a lot. >>> There is no "unstable video" with Nvidia drivers. There is completely >>> horribly totally locking video (along with the rest of the computer), >>> IF: >>> >>> 1. you run VDPAU acceleration --> >>> 2. you run it through metacity compositor (as far as I know, KDE >>> compositor doesn't produce this effect, but I'm not a KDE user and I >>> have no idea what they use, and how much and when does it apply). Some >>> other compositors might trigger the same bug, I don't know. Metacity >>> definitely does. >>> >>> This is a known issue. Software has bugs. If you hate it that much at >>> this somewhat late hour, you're always free to write a better one, I >>> guess. >>> >>> Or, as a workaround, you can turn off the (almost close to pointless) >>> compositor until that specific issue gets solved. I did the latter and >>> never lost my sleep because of it. >>> >> So this time, you not just agree with that Nvidia drivers are not >> stable, you agree with that you can do nothing with the driver, >> because you have no source code. You can only cut of your compositer, >> and wait Nvidia's mercy updates. They may fix this in next version, or >> may not. You already surrendered. >> >>>>> There is only one graphics card manufacturer that actually PRODUCES >>>>> drivers for FreeBSD. That is Nvidia. >>>> Yes, and no. Nvidia provides closed source drivers only, and never >>>> helps open source drivers. >>> Doesn't matter. Nvidia doesn't produce OPEN HARDWARE and I don't care >>> for OPEN SOFTWARE from them for as long as they provide perfectly >>> working drivers for my OS. This is situation I'm ok with for as long as >>> all my Nvidia hardware works. >> So you just turned compositer off when you meet problems. "I don't see >> it, so there is nothing.". Yea. >> >>> Guess what. All my Nvidia hardware works, so far. And that "so far" >>> stands for like "the last decade". >> My roommate what to tell you: >> 1. His mplayer can not resume after pause (WTH?); he needs to seek >> somewhere else and seek back; >> 2. In a previous version of Nvidia driver, system crashes whenever you >> fullscreen something. How benevolent Nvidia is! They fixed it in v270 >>>> As what you have agreed with: when their >>>> drivers are not stable, or even their drivers introduce security >>>> problems, you can do nothing. You have no choice but be at their >>>> mercy. >>> Sorry, this has nothing to do with working or non working Nvidia >>> drivers. I'm not into politics. And I'm at nobody's mercy, as I'm >>> already perfectly capable of voting with my money. I buy Nvidia products >>> because of their superb driver support under FreeBSD and because they >>> work. When they stop, I might move to S3 ViRGE. I have my choices and I >>> opted for the best currently available, I see no problem with that. >> You can have choice, but without extensive statistics, you can not >> prove "Nvidia produce good drivers" to anybody, especially to our >> FreeBSD users >>>> But AMD/ATI supports the development of the open source drivers. >>> Please. >>>> Now >>>> xf86-video-ati driver supports full 2D acceleration, xrander, >>>> anti-tears, KMS, basic 3D acceleration... >>> Oh god please. Tell me you're trolling or that you've never actually ran >>> anything under xf86-video-ati. You can't be serious. >> Of course I use it. My production system runs ATI Mobility X1600. I >> watch smoothy anti-tears 1080p video, play Urbanterror, enjoy >> compositer, switch screen mode with xrander when I go out for >> presentation. How about you >>>> what Nvidia has? Unstable vdpau? >>> VDPAU is perfectly stable, thank you. Tens of thousands of people >>> (hundreds? stats anyone?) are using it daily. I'm using it daily, and >>> pretty heavily to that. >> You mean... mplayer locks for 2 mins after played 5 videos can be >> called "perfectly stable" >>>> And also, when we meet problems, we can check ATI documents and >>>> modify the source code. >>> (This is... Ok, I'm not saying anything again as I simply can't believe >>> you're serious...) >> I'm serious. The reason that I'm maintaining ports for FreeBSD is that >> I found a problem in xf86-video-ati port and I feel sorry that I did >> not respond to the call of testing before the port got committed >>>> Just compare the quality of xf86-video-ati and >>>> xf86-video-nouveau, and you will know which cards are better choice. >>> I don't care for nouveau. Except for like three people in this world >>> (and all three of them on Linux where nouveau actually works), nobody >>> does. The talk was about Nvidia drivers and there is one kind of Nvidia >>> drivers - the ones produced by Nvidia. >> Ubuntu uses nouveau by default. BSDs communities are porting KMS. Want >> some more instances? > > *Someone* here's being overly dramatic. "Mercy updates"? "Surrendered"? > > > To reply to the original question, I'm using Nvidia 9800 (a tad old, I > know) in combination with official drivers without any detected problems > so far. Granted, I'm not using any compositing, but that's my preference > (turned on, wiggled a couple of windows and disabled it again). The > issue regarding VDPAU might be true for me, but wouldn't know. > > I had to use ATI X200 for a while since my Nvidia 5700 burned out > (which, aside from that, also worked without problems) which worked with > the radeon driver pretty well (read: no crashes). > > I'm not going to pretend that I know the first thing about ATI open > source drivers (or open-source drivers generally), but the general > knowledge is that they just don't cut it for newer hardware. That might > not be an issue with your card, since the X1600 is also several > generations old. The official binary drivers don't have this drawback. > > Open source is fine, when it works. But if I have to choose between > working closed-source and sorta-working open-source drivers, guess what. > These are my results and your mileage will naturally vary. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-x11@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-x11-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 11:14:48 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3EB1065670 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:14:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bernt@bah.homeip.net) Received: from feeder.usenet4all.se (1-1-1-38a.far.sth.bostream.se [82.182.32.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2EE8FC18 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:14:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kw.homeip.net (c80-217-64-49.bredband.comhem.se [80.217.64.49]) by feeder.usenet4all.se (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p5TAq3l5090200; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:52:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bernt@bah.homeip.net) Message-ID: <4E0B03D2.2020405@bah.homeip.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:52:02 +0200 From: Bernt Hansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; sv-SE; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110508 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick Lamaiziere References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> In-Reply-To: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:14:48 -0000 2011-06-23 22:13, Patrick Lamaiziere skrev: > Hello, > > Could you tell me a graphic card (pci express) that will work fine > on FreeBSD? (If i can use a dual screen it will be better). > > I'm using a Nvidia 460 but my box is stable as a Windows3.1 :( > I'm using a his radeon hd3870 works 100% I've even had 2 in crossfire setup but i got tired of having to change the monitor cable between the cards. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 15:40:10 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF1F106566B for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:40:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@pcbsd.org) Received: from mail.iXsystems.com (newknight.ixsystems.com [206.40.55.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA218FC1B for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:40:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.ixsystems.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.iXsystems.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9EEA66432 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.iXsystems.com ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.ixsystems.com (mail.ixsystems.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 55401-04 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.186] (75-130-56-30.static.kgpt.tn.charter.com [75.130.56.30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.iXsystems.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8E0B1A66431 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E0B42FD.50002@pcbsd.org> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:21:33 -0400 From: Kris Moore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110430 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> <4E0AE083.8050901@teleperformance.sk> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> In-Reply-To: <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:40:10 -0000 On 06/29/2011 05:03, Luca Pizzamiglio wrote: > My 2 cents to this discussion... > > I currently use NVidia 450 GTS. It works fine, video and KDE with > compositing runs pretty well. > Yes, sometimes NVidia closed source FreeBSD driver has some bugs and > you could not fix it. > Yes, Nvidia closed source FreeBSD driver can turn on a lot of HW > acceleration that open source driver can't. > > So, if you're lucky, you could use your powerful NVidia card without > problem. if not, you should find and disable features that cause the > problem or wait a new driver release, hoping that fix that issue > (forum discussion could help!). It's hard to say: this NVidia board > works without problem in all possible scenario! > > Graphic chips are too complex and too hidden to have high quality open > sourced driver. Company should provide them... AMD helps open source > community developing its driver, but it doesn't provide a really high > quality driver. They works, but they don't enable a lot of acceleration. > > So, NVidia is still the best solution for me, but it's a compromise. > If you want performance, NVidia is the best option, but if you enable > too many features, you could have some stability issue. This is my > personal experience. > > Good luck > > Luca My 2 cents as well... For obvious reasons I tend to do a LOT of FreeBSD desktop related stuff (duh) When people ask what video hardware to use I flat out recommend NVIDIA. Their drivers provide the best shot of getting a system up and working with 2D/3D accell, and having problems is often the exception not the rule. Plus whenever I've run into issues, they have been very responsive, and usually have it fixed in the next driver release. On the other hand, running Intel / AMD on any modern hardware is often an exercise in futility. Even if you do manage to get it somewhat "working" it seems that with every driver update things tend to break again, regressions occur, etc. That being said, your mileage may vary, but just from keeping a finger on the pulse of our community it seems nvidia is the only one which provides a consistent shot at success, without hours of hair-pulling. BTW, I'm personally running 9800GT, 285GTX, 570GTX and some 8800GTX's and they all work great, even with dual-head. The only failure I've ever run into was system lockups, and when I put that video card into a Windows box and tried playing games the same thing occurred, so chalk it up to defective hardware. -- Kris Moore PC-BSD Software iXsystems From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 18:05:43 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9BED1065670; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:05:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A282C8FC0C; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:05:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5TI5hGO088391; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:05:43 GMT (envelope-from crees@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from crees@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p5TI5huu088387; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:05:43 GMT (envelope-from crees) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:05:43 GMT Message-Id: <201106291805.p5TI5huu088387@freefall.freebsd.org> To: crees@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.org, crees@FreeBSD.org From: crees@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: ports/147267: PORT graphics/libglut should conflict with graphics/freeglut X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 18:05:43 -0000 Synopsis: PORT graphics/libglut should conflict with graphics/freeglut Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-x11->crees Responsible-Changed-By: crees Responsible-Changed-When: Wed Jun 29 18:05:43 UTC 2011 Responsible-Changed-Why: Maintainer timed out http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=147267 From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 29 22:23:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A821106566B; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:23:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7281F8FC18; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:23:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5TMNB6A038414; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:23:11 GMT (envelope-from linimon@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from linimon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p5TMNBPV038410; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:23:11 GMT (envelope-from linimon) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:23:11 GMT Message-Id: <201106292223.p5TMNBPV038410@freefall.freebsd.org> To: linimon@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.org From: linimon@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: ports/158513: Broken Xvideo in x11-drivers/xf86-video-intel drivers for i845G & i865G X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:23:11 -0000 Old Synopsis: Broken Xvideo in xf86-video-intel drivers for i845G & i865G New Synopsis: Broken Xvideo in x11-drivers/xf86-video-intel drivers for i845G & i865G Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-ports-bugs->freebsd-x11 Responsible-Changed-By: linimon Responsible-Changed-When: Wed Jun 29 22:22:27 UTC 2011 Responsible-Changed-Why: Fix synopsis and assign. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=158513 From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 05:07:07 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8989E106564A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:07:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unix.hacker@comcast.net) Received: from qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6981A8FC0A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:07:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta21.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.88]) by qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 24Vx1h0051u4NiLA44tu1J; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 04:53:54 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.3] ([68.41.84.140]) by omta21.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 24sh1h00E31ffPo8h4sj0M; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 04:52:44 +0000 Message-ID: <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:54:06 -0400 From: Allen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> <4E0AE083.8050901@teleperformance.sk> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> In-Reply-To: <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:07:07 -0000 There's so much to reply to... I snipped a bit of it so it would be readable at least. If you have no sense of humor, and from the off list email I received a week or two ago, I know someone here does, please delete this. I really don't need another email in my inbox saying "I have an attitude problem" from someone who apparently is learning what Sarcasm is at the same rate Sheldon Cooper is. On 6/29/2011 5:03 AM, Luca Pizzamiglio wrote: > My 2 cents to this discussion... > > I currently use NVidia 450 GTS. It works fine, video and KDE with > compositing runs pretty well. > Yes, sometimes NVidia closed source FreeBSD driver has some bugs and you > could not fix it. > Yes, Nvidia closed source FreeBSD driver can turn on a lot of HW > acceleration that open source driver can't. This is basically why I fly the Nvidia Flag. I have ONE ATI card, ONE, and it's in this machine, running Windows 7, and Slackware. I only have this video card, because it was a Gift. My Mom had me configure a computer for Her, and said "Configure this thing like you would if it was for you" and then on Christmas Day two years ago, She had wrapped it up and said "It was actually for you" so I kinda screwed up on the video section.... My Mom doesn't play games or anything so I didn't do much on Video. It's a 256 MB card, and the other option was 512, and I said to my Mom "Well, I'd personally get the upgrade but for YOU, You don't play games or do anything like that so this is fine" and She didn't stop me there to say get the upgrade. I made sure it had RAM and CPU power over everything else. So yea, I have one ATI card. I really would have loved Nvidia though. Every other machine I have, if it has a real video card and not on board crap, it's Nvidia. > Graphic chips are too complex and too hidden to have high quality open > sourced driver. Company should provide them... AMD helps open source > community developing its driver, but it doesn't provide a really high > quality driver. They works, but they don't enable a lot of acceleration. I personally will say exactly how I feel about this; I don't care even a little about Open Source drivers. I'm not a Programmer, so I'm not going to try and work on it, and I'm not Stallman, so I don't think it makes me a bad person either. I'll take a closed source working driver over Open Source "Good luck with that" drivers any day of the week. Security problems and all. (Don't know which ones, I just saw the other guy who think Nvidia was apparently founded by ex SS members say it had security issues. Again, don't care, I take care of security from a hardware and software point of view. If someone is going to break through 2 hardware firewalls and a switch + software and all that I have in place protecting each machine, which all of them then have their own software firewalls and other protective measures, just to steal my porn, let 'em). >>>>> So you agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable. >>>> No, I don't agree. Software has bugs. What a shocker. More news at >>>> eleven. Yea, who'd have thought something as complex as a DRIVER for hardware MIGHT contain some bugs? Lol. Wow... If people have to fix bugs in something like a text editor, or something else, then it's probably safe to say something that makes hardware work, just might have a few bugs too. Just a thought of course lol. >>>>> I agree with it >>>>> because my roommate has 2 boxes running Nvidia cards and their >>>>> official binary drivers. He suffered from the unstable video and the >>>>> incomplete Xcomposite supports a lot. Your room mate is a poo poo head. >>>> Or, as a workaround, you can turn off the (almost close to pointless) >>>> compositor until that specific issue gets solved. I did the latter and >>>> never lost my sleep because of it. Yea, again, I haven't had even one issue. I had the Official Nvidia driver running on my Laptop too, which had Linux on it, and not once did I have any problems. And that wasn't even a GOOD card. It's an Nvidia GE Force FX GO 5200. That's like Cheap AND shoddy in this world. Even THAT worked well. >>> So this time, you not just agree with that Nvidia drivers are not >>> stable, you agree with that you can do nothing with the driver, >>> because you have no source code. You can only cut of your compositer, >>> and wait Nvidia's mercy updates. They may fix this in next version, or >>> may not. You already surrendered. Yea...Question; If you had sources and this would fix everything, why is the "Open Source helped by the company" ATI driver so bad? I mean if what you're saying is true and not trolling or just plain obnoxious wouldn't EVERYONE buy ATI? I mean if that was true I'D be the bad guy because I don't like ATI or their crappy Open Source driver... So that only leaves...Well either you're an ATI employee, or Delusional. >>>>>> There is only one graphics card manufacturer that actually PRODUCES >>>>>> drivers for FreeBSD. That is Nvidia. >>>>> Yes, and no. Nvidia provides closed source drivers only, and never >>>>> helps open source drivers. And this matters how? I'd much rather my driver be written by the guys who made the hardware than someone who is guessing because they don't work there.... >>>> Guess what. All my Nvidia hardware works, so far. And that "so far" >>>> stands for like "the last decade". Same here! >>>>> or even their drivers introduce security >>>>> problems, you can do nothing. You have no choice but be at their >>>>> mercy. Security problems? And being at their Mercy... Wow. >>>>> But AMD/ATI supports the development of the open source drivers. So then use those and maybe find that room mate and show him how much better it is so he can stop whining too. >>>>> And also, when we meet problems, we can check ATI documents and >>>>> modify the source code. Then why does it suck so bad? The only thing I ever used ATI for was on another Laptop, it had 3D FX with Compiz and lagged a lot. Yea, that was so much better than the Nvidia card which had about half the memory of the ATI card and worked much better.... >> *Someone* here's being overly dramatic. "Mercy updates"? "Surrendered"? Yea apparently we lost the war on "Bad quality" by buying Nvidia. >> I'm not going to pretend that I know the first thing about ATI open >> source drivers (or open-source drivers generally), but the general >> knowledge is that they just don't cut it for newer hardware. That might >> not be an issue with your card, since the X1600 is also several >> generations old. The official binary drivers don't have this drawback. I'd love to see someone like this use brand new hardware with those open drivers and do something other than read core dumps. Don't need 3D acceleration for that! >> Open source is fine, when it works. But if I have to choose between >> working closed-source and sorta-working open-source drivers, guess what. >> These are my results and your mileage will naturally vary. That's more or less how I feel too. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 06:44:21 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B70A3106564A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:44:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichray@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495658FC16 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:44:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxe6 with SMTP id 6so1643597fxe.17 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:44:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=kczJbu2e/apVRZBQMjaEfAvCOZOD2VDmhXmbXU9xirg=; b=ZjqQ2uY03zgNBPLXKuPvPUsfuca5pLLzB12Z1ON7smbtQnlWOEblQHOO0zXj1hKXLC y5MChW0esLQ8Ue8Zu1ae7FC6uH470DxdVgNBgk4Kp/z1t8oMHZla41+34Snf2F+zgfJA DoBxkPT1JcDrWiN5s5hjE20j71k/C5sNJUTg4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.101.72 with SMTP id b8mr2575057fao.15.1309416260144; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.96.205 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:44:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> <4E0AE083.8050901@teleperformance.sk> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 01:44:20 -0500 Message-ID: From: Zhihao Yuan To: Allen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:44:21 -0000 Allen: I have to say. You don't care does not mean I don't care. Or should I say, developers must care what users ignore. All of your words so far are just "I don't care". Then what do you care, as a "Unix.Hacker"? -- Zhihao Yuan, nickname lichray The best way to predict the future is to invent it. ___________________________________________________ 4BSD -- http://4bsd.biz/ From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 08:50:02 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: x11@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF481065679 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:50:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EABA78FC13 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:50:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5U8o1JC059091 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:50:01 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p5U8o1BU059090; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:50:01 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:50:01 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <201106300850.p5U8o1BU059090@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: x11@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Pan Tsu Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468861065676 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:44:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from inyaoo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A7B88FC19 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:44:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywf7 with SMTP id 7so1039003ywf.13 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 01:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.14.35 with SMTP id 35mr1576551agn.192.1309423463107; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 01:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (tor-exit-readme-2wh1.kromyon.net [68.169.35.41]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r19sm1822605and.0.2011.06.30.01.44.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 30 Jun 2011 01:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <86wrg3aeuw.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:43:51 +0400 From: Pan Tsu To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: ports/158529: [patch] x11-servers/xorg-server: conditionalize --without-dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:50:02 -0000 >Number: 158529 >Category: ports >Synopsis: [patch] x11-servers/xorg-server: conditionalize --without-dtrace >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: x11 >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Thu Jun 30 08:50:01 UTC 2011 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Pan Tsu >Release: FreeBSD 9.0-CURRENT amd64 >Organization: >Environment: tested on Xserver 1.7.7 and Xserver-1.10.2 >Description: Use vendor default for FreeBSD versions with userland tracing support. No point for slave ports unless they start to use common patches, e.g. PATCHDIR = ${.CURDIR}/../xorg-server/files >How-To-Repeat: # kldload dtraceall # Xorg & # dtrace -P Xserver\* & # xterm dtrace: description 'Xserver*' matched 3 probes CPU ID FUNCTION:NAME 1 26626 EstablishNewConnections:client-connect 1 26625 AuthAudit:client-auth ^C >Fix: --- a.diff begins here --- Index: x11-servers/xorg-server/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /a/.cvsup/ports/x11-servers/xorg-server/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.80 diff -u -p -r1.80 Makefile --- x11-servers/xorg-server/Makefile 27 Feb 2011 23:16:09 -0000 1.80 +++ x11-servers/xorg-server/Makefile 30 Jun 2011 08:04:53 -0000 @@ -36,7 +36,7 @@ MAKE_JOBS_UNSAFE= yes USE_OPENSSL= yes USE_PERL5_BUILD=yes CONFIGURE_ARGS= --disable-dmx --disable-xvfb --disable-xnest \ - --localstatedir=/var --without-dtrace --disable-xephyr \ + --localstatedir=/var --disable-xephyr \ --enable-record=yes MAN1= Xorg.1 \ @@ -124,6 +124,12 @@ PLIST_SUB+= AMD64_I386_SPARC64="" PLIST_SUB+= AMD64_I386_SPARC64="@comment " .endif +.if (${OSVERSION} < 800000) \ + || (${OSVERSION} >= 800000 && ${OSVERSION} < 802500) + || (${OSVERSION} >= 900000 && ${OSVERSION} < 900021) +CONFIGURE_ARGS+=--without-dtrace +.endif + .if !defined(WITHOUT_SUID) && (!defined(NO_SUID_XSERVER) || ${NO_SUID_XSERVER} == NO) pre-everything:: @${ECHO_MSG} "By default, the X Server installs as a set-user-id root binary. When run by" Index: x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-dix-Xserver.d =================================================================== RCS file: x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-dix-Xserver.d diff -N x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-dix-Xserver.d --- /dev/null 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -0000 +++ x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-dix-Xserver.d 25 Jun 2011 04:08:20 -0000 @@ -0,0 +1,11 @@ +--- dix/Xserver.d~ ++++ dix/Xserver.d +@@ -27,6 +27,8 @@ + #define string char * + #define pid_t uint32_t + #define zoneid_t uint32_t ++#elif defined(__FreeBSD__) ++#define zoneid_t id_t + #else + #include + #endif Index: x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-hw-xfree86-Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-hw-xfree86-Makefile.in diff -N x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-hw-xfree86-Makefile.in --- /dev/null 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -0000 +++ x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-hw-xfree86-Makefile.in 25 Jun 2011 04:08:20 -0000 @@ -0,0 +1,11 @@ +--- hw/xfree86/Makefile.in~ ++++ hw/xfree86/Makefile.in +@@ -44,7 +44,7 @@ DIST_COMMON = $(srcdir)/Makefile.am $(sr + bin_PROGRAMS = Xorg$(EXEEXT) + + # Re-add dtrace object code that gets lost when building static libraries +-@SPECIAL_DTRACE_OBJECTS_TRUE@am__append_1 = $(XSERVER_LIBS) ++@SPECIAL_DTRACE_OBJECTS_TRUE@am__append_1 = -lelf $(XSERVER_LIBS) + + # Needs to be built before any files are compiled when using Sun compilers + # so in*/out* inline definitions are properly processed. --- a.diff ends here --- >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 09:00:24 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: x11@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B32106566B for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:00:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212F38FC08 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:00:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5U90Ndi067382 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:00:23 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p5U90NaJ067381; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:00:23 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:00:23 GMT Message-Id: <201106300900.p5U90NaJ067381@freefall.freebsd.org> To: x11@FreeBSD.org From: Pan Tsu Cc: Subject: Re: ports/158529: [patch] x11-servers/xorg-server: conditionalize --without-dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Pan Tsu List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:00:24 -0000 The following reply was made to PR ports/158529; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Pan Tsu To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: ports/158529: [patch] x11-servers/xorg-server: conditionalize --without-dtrace Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:52:27 +0400 Pan Tsu writes: [...] > +.if (${OSVERSION} < 800000) \ > + || (${OSVERSION} >= 800000 && ${OSVERSION} < 802500) ^^^^^^ Oops, accidentally excluded 8.2-release. It should be ${OSVERSION} < 802000 > + || (${OSVERSION} >= 900000 && ${OSVERSION} < 900021) > +CONFIGURE_ARGS+=--without-dtrace > +.endif > + From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 09:20:09 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: x11@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887E81065675 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:20:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 795508FC14 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:20:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5U9K9gs086431 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:20:09 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p5U9K9tc086430; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:20:09 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:20:09 GMT Message-Id: <201106300920.p5U9K9tc086430@freefall.freebsd.org> To: x11@FreeBSD.org From: Pan Tsu Cc: Subject: Re: ports/158529: [patch] x11-servers/xorg-server: conditionalize --without-dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Pan Tsu List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:20:09 -0000 The following reply was made to PR ports/158529; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Pan Tsu To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: ports/158529: [patch] x11-servers/xorg-server: conditionalize --without-dtrace Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:11:23 +0400 Regen diff while fixing syntax error of multiline .if expression. --- a.diff begins here --- Index: x11-servers/xorg-server/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /a/.cvsup/ports/x11-servers/xorg-server/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.80 diff -u -p -r1.80 Makefile --- x11-servers/xorg-server/Makefile 27 Feb 2011 23:16:09 -0000 1.80 +++ x11-servers/xorg-server/Makefile 30 Jun 2011 08:04:53 -0000 @@ -36,7 +36,7 @@ MAKE_JOBS_UNSAFE= yes USE_OPENSSL= yes USE_PERL5_BUILD=yes CONFIGURE_ARGS= --disable-dmx --disable-xvfb --disable-xnest \ - --localstatedir=/var --without-dtrace --disable-xephyr \ + --localstatedir=/var --disable-xephyr \ --enable-record=yes MAN1= Xorg.1 \ @@ -124,6 +124,12 @@ PLIST_SUB+= AMD64_I386_SPARC64="" PLIST_SUB+= AMD64_I386_SPARC64="@comment " .endif +.if (${OSVERSION} < 800000) \ + || (${OSVERSION} >= 800000 && ${OSVERSION} < 802000) \ + || (${OSVERSION} >= 900000 && ${OSVERSION} < 900021) +CONFIGURE_ARGS+=--without-dtrace +.endif + .if !defined(WITHOUT_SUID) && (!defined(NO_SUID_XSERVER) || ${NO_SUID_XSERVER} == NO) pre-everything:: @${ECHO_MSG} "By default, the X Server installs as a set-user-id root binary. When run by" Index: x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-dix-Xserver.d =================================================================== RCS file: x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-dix-Xserver.d diff -N x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-dix-Xserver.d --- /dev/null 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -0000 +++ x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-dix-Xserver.d 25 Jun 2011 04:08:20 -0000 @@ -0,0 +1,11 @@ +--- dix/Xserver.d~ ++++ dix/Xserver.d +@@ -27,6 +27,8 @@ + #define string char * + #define pid_t uint32_t + #define zoneid_t uint32_t ++#elif defined(__FreeBSD__) ++#define zoneid_t id_t + #else + #include + #endif Index: x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-hw-xfree86-Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-hw-xfree86-Makefile.in diff -N x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-hw-xfree86-Makefile.in --- /dev/null 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -0000 +++ x11-servers/xorg-server/files/patch-hw-xfree86-Makefile.in 25 Jun 2011 04:08:20 -0000 @@ -0,0 +1,11 @@ +--- hw/xfree86/Makefile.in~ ++++ hw/xfree86/Makefile.in +@@ -44,7 +44,7 @@ DIST_COMMON = $(srcdir)/Makefile.am $(sr + bin_PROGRAMS = Xorg$(EXEEXT) + + # Re-add dtrace object code that gets lost when building static libraries +-@SPECIAL_DTRACE_OBJECTS_TRUE@am__append_1 = $(XSERVER_LIBS) ++@SPECIAL_DTRACE_OBJECTS_TRUE@am__append_1 = -lelf $(XSERVER_LIBS) + + # Needs to be built before any files are compiled when using Sun compilers + # so in*/out* inline definitions are properly processed. --- a.diff ends here --- From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 09:36:58 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38CC1065670 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:36:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akirchhoff135014@gmail.com) Received: from qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944B18FC18 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:36:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.90]) by qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 29JU1h0011wpRvQ549Pjgp; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:23:43 +0000 Received: from sorrow.ashke.com ([174.57.84.251]) by omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 29Pj1h0055RMJ3S3e9Pjon; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:23:43 +0000 From: Adam K Kirchhoff To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 05:23:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.6.4; amd64; ; ) References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:36:58 -0000 The OP has already established that nvidia is not an option, and explained why he feels this way. So why is this still being discussed? Your happiness with nvidia is completely irrelevent to this particular discussion. Adam On Thursday 30 June 2011 00:54:06 Allen wrote: > There's so much to reply to... I snipped a bit of it so it would be > readable at least. If you have no sense of humor, and from the off list > email I received a week or two ago, I know someone here does, please > delete this. I really don't need another email in my inbox saying "I > have an attitude problem" from someone who apparently is learning what > Sarcasm is at the same rate Sheldon Cooper is. > > On 6/29/2011 5:03 AM, Luca Pizzamiglio wrote: > > My 2 cents to this discussion... > > > > I currently use NVidia 450 GTS. It works fine, video and KDE with > > compositing runs pretty well. > > Yes, sometimes NVidia closed source FreeBSD driver has some bugs and you > > could not fix it. > > Yes, Nvidia closed source FreeBSD driver can turn on a lot of HW > > acceleration that open source driver can't. > > This is basically why I fly the Nvidia Flag. I have ONE ATI card, ONE, > and it's in this machine, running Windows 7, and Slackware. I only have > this video card, because it was a Gift. My Mom had me configure a > computer for Her, and said "Configure this thing like you would if it > was for you" and then on Christmas Day two years ago, She had wrapped it > up and said "It was actually for you" so I kinda screwed up on the video > section.... My Mom doesn't play games or anything so I didn't do much on > Video. It's a 256 MB card, and the other option was 512, and I said to > my Mom "Well, I'd personally get the upgrade but for YOU, You don't play > games or do anything like that so this is fine" and She didn't stop me > there to say get the upgrade. I made sure it had RAM and CPU power over > everything else. > > So yea, I have one ATI card. I really would have loved Nvidia though. > Every other machine I have, if it has a real video card and not on board > crap, it's Nvidia. > > > Graphic chips are too complex and too hidden to have high quality open > > sourced driver. Company should provide them... AMD helps open source > > community developing its driver, but it doesn't provide a really high > > quality driver. They works, but they don't enable a lot of acceleration. > > I personally will say exactly how I feel about this; I don't care even a > little about Open Source drivers. I'm not a Programmer, so I'm not going > to try and work on it, and I'm not Stallman, so I don't think it makes > me a bad person either. I'll take a closed source working driver over > Open Source "Good luck with that" drivers any day of the week. Security > problems and all. (Don't know which ones, I just saw the other guy who > think Nvidia was apparently founded by ex SS members say it had security > issues. Again, don't care, I take care of security from a hardware and > software point of view. If someone is going to break through 2 hardware > firewalls and a switch + software and all that I have in place > protecting each machine, which all of them then have their own software > firewalls and other protective measures, just to steal my porn, let 'em). > > >>>>> So you agree with that Nvidia drivers are not stable. > >>>> > >>>> No, I don't agree. Software has bugs. What a shocker. More news at > >>>> eleven. > > Yea, who'd have thought something as complex as a DRIVER for hardware > MIGHT contain some bugs? Lol. Wow... If people have to fix bugs in > something like a text editor, or something else, then it's probably safe > to say something that makes hardware work, just might have a few bugs > too. Just a thought of course lol. > > >>>>> I agree with it > >>>>> because my roommate has 2 boxes running Nvidia cards and their > >>>>> official binary drivers. He suffered from the unstable video and the > >>>>> incomplete Xcomposite supports a lot. > > Your room mate is a poo poo head. > > >>>> Or, as a workaround, you can turn off the (almost close to pointless) > >>>> compositor until that specific issue gets solved. I did the latter and > >>>> never lost my sleep because of it. > > Yea, again, I haven't had even one issue. I had the Official Nvidia > driver running on my Laptop too, which had Linux on it, and not once did > I have any problems. And that wasn't even a GOOD card. It's an Nvidia GE > Force FX GO 5200. That's like Cheap AND shoddy in this world. Even THAT > worked well. > > >>> So this time, you not just agree with that Nvidia drivers are not > >>> stable, you agree with that you can do nothing with the driver, > >>> because you have no source code. You can only cut of your compositer, > >>> and wait Nvidia's mercy updates. They may fix this in next version, or > >>> may not. You already surrendered. > > Yea...Question; If you had sources and this would fix everything, why is > the "Open Source helped by the company" ATI driver so bad? I mean if > what you're saying is true and not trolling or just plain obnoxious > wouldn't EVERYONE buy ATI? I mean if that was true I'D be the bad guy > because I don't like ATI or their crappy Open Source driver... So that > only leaves...Well either you're an ATI employee, or Delusional. > > >>>>>> There is only one graphics card manufacturer that actually PRODUCES > >>>>>> drivers for FreeBSD. That is Nvidia. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, and no. Nvidia provides closed source drivers only, and never > >>>>> helps open source drivers. > > And this matters how? I'd much rather my driver be written by the guys > who made the hardware than someone who is guessing because they don't > work there.... > > >>>> Guess what. All my Nvidia hardware works, so far. And that "so far" > >>>> stands for like "the last decade". > > Same here! > > >>>>> or even their drivers introduce security > >>>>> problems, you can do nothing. You have no choice but be at their > >>>>> mercy. > > Security problems? And being at their Mercy... Wow. > > >>>>> But AMD/ATI supports the development of the open source drivers. > > So then use those and maybe find that room mate and show him how much > better it is so he can stop whining too. > > >>>>> And also, when we meet problems, we can check ATI documents and > >>>>> modify the source code. > > Then why does it suck so bad? The only thing I ever used ATI for was on > another Laptop, it had 3D FX with Compiz and lagged a lot. Yea, that was > so much better than the Nvidia card which had about half the memory of > the ATI card and worked much better.... > > >> *Someone* here's being overly dramatic. "Mercy updates"? "Surrendered"? > > Yea apparently we lost the war on "Bad quality" by buying Nvidia. > > >> I'm not going to pretend that I know the first thing about ATI open > >> source drivers (or open-source drivers generally), but the general > >> knowledge is that they just don't cut it for newer hardware. That might > >> not be an issue with your card, since the X1600 is also several > >> generations old. The official binary drivers don't have this drawback. > > I'd love to see someone like this use brand new hardware with those open > drivers and do something other than read core dumps. Don't need 3D > acceleration for that! > > >> Open source is fine, when it works. But if I have to choose between > >> working closed-source and sorta-working open-source drivers, guess what. > >> These are my results and your mileage will naturally vary. > > That's more or less how I feel too. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-x11@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-x11-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 10:18:37 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C14106564A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:18:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1B08FC15 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:18:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vxg33 with SMTP id 33so2096608vxg.13 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 03:18:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MHIaQOcg+cvm0zDT+UPNQVgAa7GNjdS7jPb++Tc4mRI=; b=Y1JnABp1ORsOHUPxMmF+oJbTgCKYrX8UvbaYdFfiZ/XHFBsJw1JT0uZaxcwxzO75Wp NtCZZDrhjqn+CEmpXW65opp1PZE8W53Is3ijbgZAhXyKfKWHFT6l/iqJkcn/fJzI1ue+ uBdQYDuLoZ6sdPwgg3xtv/tngUIuQ5GRQdWlI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.112.194 with SMTP id is2mr2447773vdb.292.1309429116440; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 03:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.4 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 03:18:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:18:36 +0100 Message-ID: From: Tom Evans To: Adam K Kirchhoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:18:37 -0000 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: > > The OP has already established that nvidia is not an option, and explaine= d why > he feels this way. =C2=A0So why is this still being discussed? =C2=A0Your= happiness with > nvidia is completely irrelevent to this particular discussion. > > Adam > Probably because lots of people happily using the nvidia driver have also tried every other device in the book, and there is a reason why they keep saying nvidia - it works, where as the others really don't. Personally, I'd like to hear more about the OP's issues with his current nvidia card, what it doesn't work on and why, and try to resolve that instead. Less cost, less drama, less 'graphics holy war'. Cheers Tom From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 10:35:05 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E58C6106566C for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:35:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akirchhoff135014@comcast.net) Received: from qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDCB68FC0A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:35:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.11]) by qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2Aar1h0020EPchoA2Ab38A; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:35:03 +0000 Received: from memory.visualtech.com ([67.103.204.242]) by omta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2Ab91h00V5EJinX8MAbC6L; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:35:19 +0000 Message-ID: <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:34:42 -0400 From: Adam K Kirchhoff User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110629 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org, tevans.uk@googlemail.com References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:35:06 -0000 On 06/30/11 06:18, Tom Evans wrote: > > Probably because lots of people happily using the nvidia driver have > also tried every other device in the book, and there is a reason why > they keep saying nvidia - it works, where as the others really don't. > > Personally, I'd like to hear more about the OP's issues with his > current nvidia card, what it doesn't work on and why, and try to > resolve that instead. Less cost, less drama, less 'graphics holy war'. Just ask all the folks with problems on nvnews.net if the driver "works" for them. In fact, if you really want to help folks get their nvidia drivers working properly, how about assisting those people actually asking for help: http://nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=47 Adam From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 11:24:57 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66CEA1065672 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:24:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patfbsd@davenulle.org) Received: from smtp.lamaiziere.net (net.lamaiziere.net [91.121.44.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A49E8FC0C for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:24:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr12941.univ-rennes1.fr (mr129041.cri.univ-rennes1.fr [129.20.129.41]) by smtp.lamaiziere.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BF641633E05 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:24:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mr12941 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mr12941.univ-rennes1.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6337A0108 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:24:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:24:55 +0200 From: Patrick Lamaiziere To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> In-Reply-To: <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.24.4; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:24:57 -0000 Le Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:34:42 -0400, Adam K Kirchhoff a écrit : > > Personally, I'd like to hear more about the OP's issues with his > > current nvidia card, what it doesn't work on and why, and try to > > resolve that instead. 8.2-STABLE/i386 The problem is random locks and a very reproductible freeze when watching a video (with Mplayer by example) via the Xvideo extension of X. For xvideo, a work-around is to disabled it in Xorg (so it will be not used). Yes I've tried to disable the composite extension. I haven't found any solution for random locks (one or two per day). > Less cost, less drama, less 'graphics holy war'. I didn't want to start a holy war :) I'm just looking for a solution. > In fact, if you really want to help folks get their nvidia drivers > working properly, how about assisting those people actually asking > for help: > > http://nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=47 http://nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=aa9baf83d399b80bdb32f911b12f9b58&t=160859 I'm not alone :) I will fill a PR in the Nvidia bugzilla. Regards. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 13:47:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2F51065679 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:47:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA498FC15 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:46:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vxg33 with SMTP id 33so2259933vxg.13 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:46:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GOSQMNx5++0NdlAKI729H1TLuefykopT5hE2tPWKb0o=; b=QHx7/1CerL5ZKI5K/kdzwyCP3HKgTLy2JXB3xFMBbqX/I5PXkZvjslFWNpBk+2ScMK f/+YRVVR8PpGahSjG1SXdWJKyTkG7vk3BgeelKIK4PBlkxZ99WxukOCZxLcZMK4s+4m4 9PKmaWfEz8Jp/imP6i47xT7H4grVoIInRGjww= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.74.74 with SMTP id r10mr2765053vdv.212.1309441618815; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.4 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:46:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:46:58 +0100 Message-ID: From: Tom Evans To: Patrick Lamaiziere Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:47:00 -0000 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Lamaiziere wrote: > Le Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:34:42 -0400, > Adam K Kirchhoff a =C3=A9crit : > >> > Personally, I'd like to hear more about the OP's issues with his >> > current nvidia card, what it doesn't work on and why, and try to >> > resolve that instead. > > 8.2-STABLE/i386 > > The problem is random locks and a very reproductible freeze when > watching a video (with Mplayer by example) via the Xvideo extension of > X. For xvideo, a work-around is to disabled it in Xorg (so it will be > not used). Yes I've tried to disable the composite extension. > > I haven't found any solution for random locks (one or two per day). > The composite extension shouldn't affect xvideo. It will affect vdpau, which is what I recommend you try to use with mplayer - its supported by your card. Something like this in ~/.mplayer/config: vo=3Dvdpau,xv vc=3Dffh264vdpau,ffvc1vdpau,ffmpeg12vdpau,ffwmv3vdpau, Interestingly, I have had the same scenario as happened to the guy in the thread you linked to - device fails, and on a warm reboot it fails to appear on the PCI bus (it came back after a cold power up). I took it as a sign of hardware failure, replaced it with a new one of the same model, and it didn't happen again. Have a try with vdpau and see how that goes. You will need to enable it (cd /usr/ports/multimedia/mplayer; make config ; make clean all deinstall reinstall clean). Do you also have windows/another OS available to stress test the card to make sure it is still functioning correctly? Might be useful. Cheers Tom From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 13:55:52 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A94106566C for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:55:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1709E8FC1B for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:55:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5UDY8Pb033454; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) with ESMTP id p5UDY845033451; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:34:08 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Patrick Lamaiziere In-Reply-To: <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> Message-ID: References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:55:52 -0000 On Thu, 30 Jun 2011, Patrick Lamaiziere wrote: > I didn't want to start a holy war :) I'm just looking for a solution. Radeon 4650 or 4850. Cheap and functional. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 16:41:27 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF98106567D for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:41:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 670FB8FC08 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:41:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (root@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua [10.1.1.148]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id p5UGNFgO017782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:23:16 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5UGNFv9098078; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:23:15 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p5UGNFo3098077; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:23:15 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:23:15 +0300 From: Kostik Belousov To: x11@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110630162315.GV48734@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6cv90ZHrlxJiM48h" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Intel GPU kernel driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:41:27 -0000 --6cv90ZHrlxJiM48h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline [Please remove current@ when replying.] I created the first code drop for the ongoing GEM/KMS project. Please note that this is not an end-user release, and even _not_ a call for testing. The project is not finished yet, and I expect quite more efforts from me even after the scheduled project end, and from ports/x11 people, before the driver and usermode infrastructure will be ready for the general public consumption. That said, the patch is only of use for you now if you want to review, debug or otherwise help the project. The driver is known to be unstable, some parts are missing, some (esp. VM changes) are under the discussion and propably will be changed. If you have fix or useful bug analisys or suggestions for improvements, you are welcome. I will not answer to the support requests for this code now, please do not waste your time asking for it. The pointers to the patches, useful hints for debugging and bug reporting, and some notes are at the http://wiki.freebsd.org/Intel_GPU. I will maintain this page further. Current patch is ~50KLOC, it took quite an efforts to bring the code to the state where there is something to debug. Thanks for everybody who waited for it, and please be patient while the further work is done. --6cv90ZHrlxJiM48h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk4MovMACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4i1SgCbBMCrSa0ayyHkjndiGs1R2wo3 SU8AoPL/7Sk+xyXOhhOMlHf60hEwS9AL =1brR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6cv90ZHrlxJiM48h-- From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 17:03:18 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD1A10657B4 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 17:03:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichray@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F193D8FC14 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 17:03:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxe6 with SMTP id 6so2078667fxe.17 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:03:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=we1hDcqjf1RUdSvGRu2oGmyILwyXbds2UGICT8Wtqfw=; b=P67ycX1ht4VfsuSk3rOnTtUglggs6y8ta+nof2WwWMEx5OxaqiZKcGYsBmxqXnFsu9 eao2u/0Sz5rFIYDgBEXtWhFRJLrkRJ/Op3YqTMHdEIOc2A3A6b7NMdo6sKHF7h2AqDKy +7Hb0+j++ayM9rS0P9FNg5F3R4sF1R4IeEPY4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.101.72 with SMTP id b8mr3354977fao.15.1309453396808; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.96.205 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:03:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:03:16 -0500 Message-ID: From: Zhihao Yuan To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 17:03:18 -0000 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Warren Block wrote: > On Thu, 30 Jun 2011, Patrick Lamaiziere wrote: > >> I didn't want to start a holy war :) I'm just looking for a solution. > > Radeon 4650 or 4850. =C2=A0Cheap and functional. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-x11@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-x11-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > BTW, the guys who recommend Nvidia a lot. Now I'm choosing my next laptop. I found a nice one but the graphic card is Nvidia Quadro FX 570M! Anyone can guaranty that the binary drivers works for a pro card? --=20 Zhihao Yuan, nickname lichray The best way to predict the future is to invent it. ___________________________________________________ 4BSD -- http://4bsd.biz/ From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 18:03:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24CFF106564A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:03:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varga.michal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16C18FC13 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:03:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pzk27 with SMTP id 27so2708858pzk.13 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:03:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=/emQkC0ut1bItu1Lb/c6flGvHCv707+IsM7q8xDSRV0=; b=eDkr7palzORk3BBdFMfBc46ZH6xyMrAXEXA3RpXsVCA83enDPqwD/gy6orClCPS4tk K0R7AiC37is3LpvTpxOB8JVV8/EseO1DUWDJ2auipX2xGNNZJ7NUoAgtF/HfGxSNr1b/ PdWTuosi0YvyiEupxUbBR+TEKsOUWx/cLO3cw= Received: by 10.142.135.4 with SMTP id i4mr1066973wfd.34.1309457029168; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:03:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.14.21 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:03:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> From: Michal Varga Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:03:28 +0200 Message-ID: To: Zhihao Yuan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:03:50 -0000 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 19:03, Zhihao Yuan wrote: > BTW, the guys who recommend Nvidia a lot. Now I'm choosing my next > laptop. I found a nice one but the graphic card is Nvidia Quadro FX > 570M! Anyone can guaranty that the binary drivers works for a pro > card? > Well, the only people who are capable to "guarantee" you anything are Nvidia, that's a no brainer. But as the professional segment is Nvidia's main focus anyway (basically all consumer Nvidia drivers are a byproduct of their Quadro drivers anyway, as that's the major industry where Nvidia shines), I would really doubt that you will see any special issues there (well, as far as a laptop can be considered 'pro', but if comes with Quardo, it might be a good start). Again, nobody will guarantee you anything, there are tons of possible HW combinations and configurations, *AND* there are people that will *ALWAYS* have issues. Nobody knows why. You can pick 10 random guys, hand them the same computers, same 10 graphics boards, and there will always be the one special flake that will claim that no matter what he does "it's just broken, but he did nothing wrong, really". Nobody knows why it happens. It just happens. Everybody has experienced this. Everybody. Darn, how many times *I* have seen this. So again, and as I've stated before somewhere in the beginning of this thread. Do your own research, consider your choices and possibilities that you have. 1. Do you want modern hardware? - Ok. Matrox is out. VIA is out. 2. Do you want working, at least, *something*? *anything*? At least basic 2D acceleration? Really working, not like "maybe this week, maybe just this specific sub-minor driver version with seven extra hand-tuned patches, maybe just with this single app"? - Fine. Intel is out of question. You know how the joke goes: "Hey, let's play this online game, what graphics card you have?" "None. I have Intel." Yes, it's not funny. It's pretty sad. 3. Do you want really working drivers? Not half-assed randomly stitched together pieces of pseudocode lifted from incomplete and obsolete documentation that AMD/ATI ocassionally throws at annoying "linux hippies" to keep them at bay; but drivers. Real drivers. Like professional drivers that were made by the people who developed and produced the hardware and drivers that are current, frequently updated and that support FreeBSD directly and fully? - So ATI is out of question. Seriously, I'm not going into ATI flamewars again. I don't work for Nvidia (and wouldn't care for them even slightly if their products weren't so good - for me). And I actually own ATI hardware, sadly. And I have seen so many ATI users and experienced so many of their problems that I could have me made a fur coat out of the hair I lost through it. It's a waste of time. Anyone who can seriously *RECOMMEND* ATI card for anything but simple desktop work (dragging windows and watching unaccelerated video) is either completely delusional, or clearly hates the other person he is recommending to (or simply never owned an ATI product but feels like recommending them anyway, that happens too). If someone is dumb enough to pick that advice even through the internet is full of easily accessible information about how horrible crap ATI products are (both in HW and SW, and the SW part especially counts for FreeBSD, where there is comepletely *NONE* support from ATI), then, fine - let him have it. As someone once said: No lesson is fully learned without pain. 4. All other options: Nvidia. Please. Look at what they produce, look what the whole frickin graphics/design/ industry uses. Go find a professional graphics studio with ATI or Intel "hardware". And good luck with that search. It's not a hard math and you know what options you have. Nobody will guarantee you anything - or - heck, I will guarantee you anything as long as you pay me enough to make it worth it. Without that, it's up to you and your research, and your conclusions. Reading just this thread alone, I could clearly see my conclusion anytime (which is the same for more than a decade anyway). I think the consensus, except for ocassional "hey get an ATI" one-liners is pretty easily visible. For me, at least. But then, I'm not into "open-sauce" politics and at this point in my life, I'm only interested in my graphics hardware working, because, heck, once in a while, I actually need to get some stuff done on it. And it works, fully, be it 2D, 3D, x video acceleration, vdpau decoding, dualhead setups, modelling in blender, linux games, wine games... I have yet to ever find something that doesn't. Try the same on ATI. Or Intel, if you're interested in an even more surreal experience. Come back to write about your results. m. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 18:09:04 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF90D106564A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:09:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akirchhoff135014@comcast.net) Received: from qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.59.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995F48FC0C for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:09:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta24.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.76]) by qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2J4S1h0041ei1Bg5CJ9423; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:09:04 +0000 Received: from sorrow.ashke.com ([174.57.84.251]) by omta24.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2J921h0095RMJ3S3kJ92xD; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:09:03 +0000 Message-ID: <4E0CBBBD.9090704@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:09:01 -0400 From: Adam K Kirchhoff User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110628 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michal Varga References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:09:05 -0000 On 06/30/11 14:03, Michal Varga wrote: > > - So ATI is out of question. Seriously, I'm not going into ATI > flamewars again. I don't work for Nvidia (and wouldn't care for them > even slightly if their products weren't so good - for me). And I > actually own ATI hardware, sadly. And I have seen so many ATI users > and experienced so many of their problems that I could have me made a > fur coat out of the hair I lost through it. It's a waste of time. > Anyone who can seriously *RECOMMEND* ATI card for anything but simple > desktop work (dragging windows and watching unaccelerated video) is > either completely delusional, or clearly hates the other person he is > recommending to (or simply never owned an ATI product but feels like > recommending them anyway, that happens too). If someone is dumb enough > to pick that advice even through the internet is full of easily > accessible information about how horrible crap ATI products are (both > in HW and SW, and the SW part especially counts for FreeBSD, where > there is comepletely *NONE* support from ATI), then, fine - let him > have it. As someone once said: No lesson is fully learned without > pain. I love how you say you're not going into an ATI flameware again, and then you spend the entire paragraph trying to start one. Adam From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 18:35:18 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B02D1065670 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:35:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varga.michal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pv0-f182.google.com (mail-pv0-f182.google.com [74.125.83.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E74078FC14 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:35:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pvg11 with SMTP id 11so2702199pvg.13 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=eYKfYn3VDv5AYbQOIn+8vvEwDnH3PqLHjfoV55pyMhY=; b=RNDfUwVDMS21V1wSm9AXJdcseFGVUeLqZ0V4etFMVhJBHbCyS39e2zPUM5c2fLWRFg QLEFZi/Chgdvx5WZFcfw8bhSIxT1akJhUGSROpj148JP4FLWPfuj0qYi0UZmAG2AEiu3 a1TH8ch7nOX8Kdxvn+VULREtzXYJrLEC0cqy0= Received: by 10.142.5.35 with SMTP id 35mr1029366wfe.376.1309458917250; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.14.21 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E0CBBBD.9090704@comcast.net> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> <4E0CBBBD.9090704@comcast.net> From: Michal Varga Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:34:57 +0200 Message-ID: To: Adam K Kirchhoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:35:18 -0000 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 20:09, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: > I love how you say you're not going into an ATI flameware again, and then > you spend the entire paragraph trying to start one. > > Adam In which i single-handedly succeeded, even without trying, if that is the only part of my email that forced you to fire up a reply. But you're clearly not an ATI fanboy, aren't you. m. (Also, I'm not going to reply to any other provocation, so we may as much as end it right here, if that's okay with you.) From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 19:30:17 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F450106564A for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akirchhoff135014@gmail.com) Received: from qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 125088FC1C for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:30:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.43]) by qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2Hbn1h0060vyq2s51KWHsW; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:30:17 +0000 Received: from sorrow.ashke.com ([174.57.84.251]) by omta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2KW81h02u5RMJ3S3RKWExx; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:30:16 +0000 From: Adam K Kirchhoff To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:30:07 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.6.4; amd64; ; ) References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0CBBBD.9090704@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201106301530.07204.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:30:17 -0000 On Thursday 30 June 2011 14:34:57 Michal Varga wrote: > On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 20:09, Adam K Kirchhoff > > wrote: > > I love how you say you're not going into an ATI flameware again, and then > > you spend the entire paragraph trying to start one. > > > > Adam > > In which i single-handedly succeeded, even without trying, if that is > the only part of my email that forced you to fire up a reply. But > you're clearly not an ATI fanboy, aren't you. > > m. > > > (Also, I'm not going to reply to any other provocation, so we may as > much as end it right here, if that's okay with you.) My last comment... I'm not an ATI fanboy. I prefer an honest and open discussion, which is something that is not encouraged by phrases like "completely delusional", "clearly hates", "dumb enough", "horrible crap", etc. For what it's worth, I do not and will not recommend nvidia since my last attempts at using their drivers (on two separate machines) resulted in constant lockups when doing anything 3D related with NVRM XiD errors dumped to dmesg and the console right before the lockups, and no help from anyone other than recommendations to update to the latest BIOS for my computer and wait for a newer driver. On the other hand, under linux with KMS enabled, I am able to use desktop effects, play doom3/ut2004 (natively) and various games under wine, and have a seamless desktop experience with an HD4850. However, I do primarily use FreeBSD and it is sad that the open source drivers are not as capable here. It is also unfortunate that when I lose at what functionality I currently enjoy under FreeBSD, I will have to look at other hardware (not nvidia for reasons I already explained) or another desktop operating system. Adam From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 30 22:21:51 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932101065674 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:21:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unix.hacker@comcast.net) Received: from qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.243]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C3B8FC0C for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:21:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.72]) by qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2NBZ1h0021ZMdJ4ADNMoCy; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:21:48 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.3] ([68.41.84.140]) by omta16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2NL21h01D31ffPo8cNL98y; Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:20:12 +0000 Message-ID: <4E0CF6FF.6000204@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:21:51 -0400 From: Allen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zhihao Yuan References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <1308902182.1748.3.camel@xenon> <20110628201715.1d541eca@davenulle.org> <1309304880.1743.25.camel@xenon> <1309308802.1743.52.camel@xenon> <4E0AE083.8050901@teleperformance.sk> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:21:51 -0000 On 6/30/2011 2:44 AM, Zhihao Yuan wrote: > Allen: > > I have to say. You don't care does not mean I don't care. Or should I > say, developers must care what users ignore. All of your words so far > are just "I don't care". Then what do you care, as a "Unix.Hacker"? I didn't say I don't care... Where did you get that from exactly? If I didn't care I wouldn't have taken the time to reply to any of that. I read about 20 replies to that wondering why someone was so... Against I guess is the word to make that out.. Not sure Honestly, but, I wondered why someone was so against a simple Nvidia Driver, and the other guy who was trying to respond to it was doing so by himself. I simply let him know he wasn't alone in his thoughts. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 1 00:17:35 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B32106566C for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 00:17:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unix.hacker@comcast.net) Received: from qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D798FC15 for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 00:17:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.89]) by qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2QES1h0031vN32cAAQHYzN; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 00:17:32 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.3] ([68.41.84.140]) by omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2QHD1h00i31ffPo8iQHGHh; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 00:17:17 +0000 Message-ID: <4E0D1227.3090702@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:17:43 -0400 From: Allen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> <4E0CBBBD.9090704@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 00:17:35 -0000 On 6/30/2011 2:34 PM, Michal Varga wrote: > On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 20:09, Adam K Kirchhoff > wrote: > >> I love how you say you're not going into an ATI flameware again, and then >> you spend the entire paragraph trying to start one. >> >> Adam > > > In which i single-handedly succeeded, even without trying, if that is > the only part of my email that forced you to fire up a reply. But > you're clearly not an ATI fanboy, aren't you. Yea I noticed that too. And entire reply where you basically broke down each option someone has if they aren't using Windows, or, to some extent, even OS X (though not as far there) and I thought it was pretty decent. I'm not going by some marketing campaign, nor am I going by what someone told me; When I made my very first reply to this discussion, I was Honest, and went with my OWN Experiences in this area. And to this day, I've yet to have an Nvidia card that didn't work. You and I can't be the only people who just don't seem to have these issues, and for someone to reply time after time, where they basically snipped out your post and only left the part that talked about flaming, that's not looking so good. I can't imagine why someone would put that much effort into ignoring page upon page of your post only to respond to the last part of it. Totally ignoring that you basically wrote a 4 page HOWTO for Graphics cards. Now, the VERY first machine I ever bought, has an Nvidia TNT2 with 16 MBs Memory. That's the very first Computer I ever bought and it was over 10 years ago. The video card still worked until last week when it finally went. Over a Decade of use, heavy use, and it was still working. I had 3D with it and played Games, watched movies, everything. No problems at all. My Laptop, I paid extra to get an Nvidia Ge Force FX GO 5200. Again, no issues, and full 3D to play games. The only "issue" if you can even call it one, was when I read I needed a different version of the Driver since it was an OLD card, and that was basically me clicking on a different spot when I went to Nvidia's Site to download drivers. That was like 15 seconds, and I had good Video. The ATI cards in this House, remain without that. The Driver doesn't come close, and I don't even bother anymore. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 1 00:50:18 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE47106564A for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 00:50:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from akirchhoff135014@comcast.net) Received: from qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.59.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9551C8FC08 for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 00:50:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.44]) by qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2QSE1h00A0xGWP85CQqJTb; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 00:50:18 +0000 Received: from sorrow.ashke.com ([174.57.84.251]) by omta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2QqJ1h0035RMJ3S3YQqJdr; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 00:50:18 +0000 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:50:16 -0400 From: Adam K Kirchhoff To: Allen Message-ID: <20110630205016.416f4bfe@sorrow.ashke.com> In-Reply-To: <4E0D1227.3090702@comcast.net> References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> <4E0CBBBD.9090704@comcast.net> <4E0D1227.3090702@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.6 (GTK+ 2.22.1; x86_64-unknown-openbsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 00:50:19 -0000 On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:17:43 -0400 Allen wrote: > I can't imagine why someone would put that much effort into ignoring > page upon page of your post only to respond to the last part of it. > Totally ignoring that you basically wrote a 4 page HOWTO for Graphics > cards. There was nothing much worth responding to. In terms of ATI/AMD hardware, there were no facts in Michal's e-mail, just rhetoric. How can anyone respond to that without stooping to the same level? Perhaps I could have responded with facts about AMD hardware on FreeBSD with the open source drivers, but I already posted that information two days ago. Personally, I can't imagine why some folks would spend so much time defending nvidia when someone else makes the simple claim that the nvidia driver just doesn't work for them. Ahhh, maybe I just need to unsubscribe from this list and let misinformation run rampant. Adam From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 1 07:25:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF67A106567A for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:25:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unix.hacker@comcast.net) Received: from qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9212F8FC0C for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:25:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.71]) by qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2XR41h0041Y3wxoACXR8H3; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 07:25:09 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.3] ([68.41.84.140]) by omta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2XPl1h00d31ffPo8bXPnKQ; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 07:23:47 +0000 Message-ID: <4E0D765F.8010101@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 03:25:19 -0400 From: Allen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam K Kirchhoff References: <20110623221305.43b74d53@davenulle.org> <4E0AEA54.1080806@bally-wulff.de> <4E0C016E.1040909@comcast.net> <201106300523.41240.akirchhoff135014@gmail.com> <4E0C5142.2020903@comcast.net> <20110630132455.13304880@mr12941> <4E0CBBBD.9090704@comcast.net> <4E0D1227.3090702@comcast.net> <20110630205016.416f4bfe@sorrow.ashke.com> In-Reply-To: <20110630205016.416f4bfe@sorrow.ashke.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Graphic card that works? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 07:25:11 -0000 First, please just do a reply to list. I don't understand why I get two copies of these but please just reply to list instead of CCing it. On 6/30/2011 8:50 PM, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: > On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:17:43 -0400 > Allen wrote: > >> I can't imagine why someone would put that much effort into ignoring >> page upon page of your post only to respond to the last part of it. >> Totally ignoring that you basically wrote a 4 page HOWTO for Graphics >> cards. > > There was nothing much worth responding to. In terms of ATI/AMD > hardware, there were no facts in Michal's e-mail, just rhetoric. How > can anyone respond to that without stooping to the same level? Perhaps > I could have responded with facts about AMD hardware on FreeBSD with > the open source drivers, but I already posted that information two days > ago. There was plenty worth responding to. He did a lot more than talk about Nvidia, he talked about most of the cards you can get right now. He also brought up Intel's "cards" which, he rightly pointed out, are garbage. I think even you can agree with that. > Personally, I can't imagine why some folks would spend so much time > defending nvidia when someone else makes the simple claim that the > nvidia driver just doesn't work for them. I don't defend anything I don't use. The reason I personally got in on this was the fact that when this post was originally made here, I made a simple reply, back when there weren't a bunch of them turning into a borderline flame. I told the guy what hardware I personally had, and my experience with it. I did so with the intent of helping. I didn't bring up any cards I hadn't personally used, and I made sure to say which cards they were exactly in case they had access to any of them. That way they could try them as well. See, I didn't have some agenda, and still don't other than the fact that you seem to think that what I and the other person have said is either a lie, or we .... Actually I don't even know what other reason you'd have... So I can't say. But the reason we "defend" Nvidia, is that..Well, my reason is simple; The 3 Nvidia cards I have, have worked excellent for me. No matter if it was Windows, Linux, or BSD. I have yet to have an issue. > Ahhh, maybe I just need to unsubscribe from this list and let > misinformation run rampant. Misinformation and disinformation, is the weapon of the stupid. I don't think anyone here has actually said anything they haven't meant. I know everything I've said about the cards I've used, was accurate. That's why I gave specific model information, so the person could look into that specific card. What does bother me is the fact that your main complaint seemed to be the fact that the Driver wasn't Open Source, and that "room mates have problems with them".... I don't know or remember which cards it was you said they had, but I don't think you'd outright lie just to make someone get ATI cards. You know what we could have done though? Possibly just listed which cards we all have, and which ones worked best. Maybe then it wouldn't be what it is now. From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 2 22:08:16 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: x11@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A79C5106564A; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 22:08:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) Received: from wilberforce.math.missouri.edu (wilberforce.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590BC8FC15; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 22:08:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (wilberforce.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by wilberforce.math.missouri.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p62LgTUa093572; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 16:42:31 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) Message-ID: <4E0F90C6.5020704@missouri.edu> Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 16:42:30 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110516 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton , danfe@FreeBSD.org, x11@FreeBSD.org References: <4E0796A6.3040909@missouri.edu> <4E07A18B.2010205@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4E07A18B.2010205@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: x11/nvidia-driver incompatible with portmaster? X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:08:16 -0000 Are x11-server/x11-server and x11/nvidia-driver together incompatible with portmaster? If you install x11-server/xorg-server, and then install x11/nvidia-driver, then "pkg_delete -f" and reinstall xorg-server, then it seems to me that x11/nvidia-driver will be broken, because xorg-server will overwrite lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libgl.*, and nvidia-driver also writes these files. I know that x11/nvidia-driver restores the libgl.* files when it is deinstalled. But it is portmaster's use of "pkg_delete -f" that concerns me. Thanks, Stephen