From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 21 17:44:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 696B11C60C9 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 17:44:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47Jn3z2HFPz3D1H for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 17:43:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id r20so4552458qtp.13 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 09:43:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ZmeqjRT0qSjMnTfe3DaSqauxDX7ziCsG3L1W86+/WTc=; b=b1aBwdaeMpMgLBWkZ2w4cNYt53nHcZSV2CnJ3mk0y/AhOSIUhaazakJcNmDwcvQa8u yoRVwZcGmo7+kYrsuYdos1Dh3LPuXCzHnyFGvDZ7PccuPG8K5PyZqnxg+e7Vngttq3hT 097P+vL8TRDZ1tDNQa4NwajQrDLcLqvzsb31JlMc3hW4ekY1yF8o5t4Q6uOP6jwa6WBo uoznWVhEcPF4epgdbw2XIF3WQt7lyksfYD8IeNtg8nLTMGBvNJ251tn7vZsmLrQ7WVjI eN7j3GlQaPxTGbKXG+wLePyA5hQZ/ed8C82D9sjyro5BjoI3AiqACKivZVXQZuLRez62 AV/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ZmeqjRT0qSjMnTfe3DaSqauxDX7ziCsG3L1W86+/WTc=; b=uJ607K5kTgqksZzTTSwBunAYDl0mWxw1lIEpFsHf4D170Hv2CJPIeE7UjkKyIj0tdh 6+1tj2EpReOSnaeu5R9OtaKlv/oMNo23rnFqOM0hgCLH+ne+gv0w2nDCIYcP5kDy/lhL DIbzamyUQA0m6sAtHZ3qwvW/TdOg67zwc++E8Dm/ssyE0cOF7rC6jl3XoJ+b/raXkUa8 3XJHLppnAqyGsW1hZnJy+1Fh2QuahOeHyQmDxDUUXgho5ay5bj/x+krEda2qqEKSs45V jZyuyu1+Yh7tL0NG3iYNN1i1ckCYPREVw6/f9uOldbFM2XXDe4UsfQ3HBpa9CYMyDdZp cNrA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV4tFoNSbS7kKajgkFix9butj4Dy0GCE3zkIQ+xxzsizoVWiY8k W2weuK2iEMFOWkRa7d2c2Wr279yQu4cmqiwOPfI3ZifQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyowZTBGM5FMnusloSpczl67qCcIeDhmuqC4udKMFs9hr95nmZ2wc4Uml8QNR62LjvH13cKMvCCpOUU0HYDqns= X-Received: by 2002:aed:3be9:: with SMTP id s38mr9837800qte.175.1574358237508; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 09:43:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 10:43:46 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Killing Giant for 13 To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47Jn3z2HFPz3D1H X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=b1aBwdae; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[d.2.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.73)[ip: (-9.36), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.29), asn: 15169(-1.97), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 17:44:00 -0000 I'd like to kill Giant in 13 and schedule a firm removal date. The issues are (a) old drivers that aren't MP safe (b) some console / ATKBD interactions (c) newbus and (d) a few stays that haven't been characterized. (a) should be deleted or updated before the deadline (b) should be fixed by $SOMEONE[tm] (c) there's some work underway to refine the locking protocols to allow one to not have Giant held (there's real questions about how effective it is when things sleep or contend) (d) I'm researching. Would there be support for setting a firm deadline for Giant removal of around June 2020? This would be months ahead of a speculative 13.0 timeline (Earliest would be December 2020, latest would be maybe October 2021, the exact details aren't super relevant for a June target date). This is a preliminary inquiry to get a feel for support for this option and to gather additional issues and requirements. Comments? Warner