From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Feb 17 18:03:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1C914D79E4; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 18:03:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7340804E7; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 18:03:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1HI3N3B095694 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 17 Feb 2019 10:03:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1HI3N31095693; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 10:03:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 10:03:23 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C7340804E7 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.26 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.91)[0.914,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.861,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.72)[0.716,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.08)[ip: (0.15), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.21), asn: 73(0.10), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 18:03:27 -0000 Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. How does one prevent this autoloading? -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Feb 17 23:14:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE8B714E4CF1 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 23:14:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic313-20.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic313-20.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 360DD8DD8A for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 23:14:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: DRrbEkgVM1l0fytXJ6Qu._.xp1SyVZk7fuJQeAQbmE9UmyAc8JYOuGSdPLAdE1O NpNM.FvP8PODtN0yowIwzOVaHpvEoQoDBmIJflRFj3fEsMttRGmCUKZuUonYSPzDjgc3JhZ8D8Ew ro1ILAIpnRYykqmMfPTPfrnrsDh0sW3e7XE049qsHj37XejHrBikaZOFeL2t7.O5rCha44Qq7kbh FeK0.QMAFHfY_JqfcnEOcvZ3ReAb2LS3ftkUtfZ8G7s7Ti_dmTf62Yc4pexDz5hmDe0UAkKf44RD gEcvvMTicCqaCvuQ5MuGACFobmr1HhY0Ql7FWcLCpPddw3cLmNHiXN8vJj3.A_ZFi5bKbjISaeq4 uUq6eCU_eXDL4UoSapxA0IzFpV2jB_R8JsF2MS0uTAbzoJXYT_NXvsXzEbMYoI87M7ce162jC6qv S_O_xwzP_EJMvWtW8gmCcHNF1GYODYEF_a1ufClQML8E1W6Ig_8iM5dFmMrFQDZ0e0AwrfxuoKff gOUMFpeXCAPyWR4VqjxuiJrhsIQtncMT4rkp0pa3rbDch21xLXgkKpLYysbVM7RtbygwBsJ8JkTN ngwusxE.VfJiq7lrz4eMtF0QlRv734Z5_XIk1WYCzfwuZx8WvOhHcafl73hqRTTs5oQEiM3biSkS YqSIFRkZYTxvgCbcNUBHXIjbQpDCgCVCPRSZYPzHWhgKLvPIRV.5M9lrwOqYYQcIyt9.o89Iq.Bw Tz2CAsFQzikGb1MJhiiuTtDkay9jG9ltwWiGJAOztc_MAEwvRDcEjQKbxzg1fyxxQsFDGRGZiMLd ZYEw6uUMgGdg5n91rAD9_f4JHGSH3Omf3CtSc9Zfwj2d_06hAelkuKyEqTEao2EwaDFB04ll3oJR VWTAxEOgxzAC9un8sw5QU6yskO5Cl6DEGPJZ5HwIhLKCsVXzrxx73EOLMbjzW0OpgVwUWQUvH9Qo Tj7z04q7OnQ5JT7JKKD2ks_073qc0UA9YgOazmznHJowylCCqjxZWZnX14wJKzkEiKybeBXGUqNS Rgm4WELnGBuVzqVOWtb51uZTQ4nCBv1UwrWkc.jCnuPG2TKkDe7c2InOj Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 23:14:51 +0000 Received: from c-67-170-167-181.hsd1.or.comcast.net (EHLO [192.168.1.113]) ([67.170.167.181]) by smtp411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 9fa775c7fddaee7b1c83e8dfde0a9cbc; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 23:04:42 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 15:04:41 -0800 Cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4135B088-DF13-4867-ABF4-5659D47C8997@yahoo.com> References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> To: Steve Kargl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 360DD8DD8A X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.82 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.26)[-0.256,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.91)[0.908,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.84)[-0.835,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.51)[ip: (1.34), ipnet: 98.137.64.0/21(0.72), asn: 36647(0.58), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[83.65.137.98.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 23:15:00 -0000 On 2019-Feb-17, at 10:03, Steve Kargl wrote: Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. How does one prevent this autoloading? Looking via the web lead to: = https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=3Devdev&apropos=3D0&sektion=3D4&= manpath=3DFreeBSD+12.0-RELEASE&arch=3Ddefault&format=3Dhtml So: NAME evdev - Generic Linux input driver SYNOPSIS Section "InputDevice" Identifier "devname" Driver "evdev" Option "Device" "devpath" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "True" Option "Emulate3Timeout" "50" Option "GrabDevice" "False" ... EndSection DESCRIPTION evdev is an Xorg input driver for Linux's generic event devices. = It therefore supports all input devices that the kernel knows = about, including most mice, keyboards, tablets and touchscreens. evdev is the default driver on the major Linux distributions. . . . but it seems to not have a 13-current entry. It does have a 12.0-RELEASE entry. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 00:24:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B17214E7D9A; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:24:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0671369C5C; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:24:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1I0OtEX098286 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 17 Feb 2019 16:24:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1I0OtMM098285; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 16:24:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 16:24:55 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Mark Millard Cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218002455.GA98130@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <4135B088-DF13-4867-ABF4-5659D47C8997@yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4135B088-DF13-4867-ABF4-5659D47C8997@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0671369C5C X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.71 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.08)[ip: (0.15), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.21), asn: 73(0.10), country: US(-0.07)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.49)[0.492,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.83)[0.834,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.61)[0.614,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:24:59 -0000 On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 03:04:41PM -0800, Mark Millard wrote: > > > On 2019-Feb-17, at 10:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to > be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom > kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and > wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > How does one prevent this autoloading? > > Looking via the web lead to: > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=evdev&apropos=0&sektion=4&manpath=FreeBSD+12.0-RELEASE&arch=default&format=html > So: > > NAME > evdev - Generic Linux input driver > > DESCRIPTION > > evdev is an Xorg input driver for Linux's generic event devices. It > therefore supports all input devices that the kernel knows about, > including most mice, keyboards, tablets and touchscreens. evdev > is the default driver on the major Linux distributions. > . . . > > > > but it seems to not have a 13-current entry. It does have > a 12.0-RELEASE entry. > Thanks. Kinda odd that freebsd-current doesn't have a manual page, but FreeBSD-12 does. I have a wireless logitech mouse. It seems that the wireless USB dongle is causing the load of the modules. I still understand why as ums(4) does not should a dependency on uhid, wmt, or evdev. -- Steve 20170425 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWUpyCsUKR4 20161221 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbCHE-hONow From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 02:35:33 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F6214EE613; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:35:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC3A16F5A5; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:35:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x1I2ZP4S003280; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 18:35:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x1I2ZPoZ003279; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 18:35:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201902180235.x1I2ZPoZ003279@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? In-Reply-To: <20190218002455.GA98130@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 18:35:25 -0800 (PST) CC: Mark Millard , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AC3A16F5A5 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.08 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.81)[0.815,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.88)[0.880,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.50)[0.505,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[ip: (0.02), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.01), asn: 13868(-0.01), country: US(-0.07)]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:35:33 -0000 > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 03:04:41PM -0800, Mark Millard wrote: > > > > > > On 2019-Feb-17, at 10:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > > Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to > > be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom > > kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and > > wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > How does one prevent this autoloading? > > > > Looking via the web lead to: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ web lies > > > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=evdev&apropos=0&sektion=4&manpath=FreeBSD+12.0-RELEASE&arch=default&format=html > > So: > > > > NAME > > evdev - Generic Linux input driver > > > > DESCRIPTION > > > > evdev is an Xorg input driver for Linux's generic event devices. It > > therefore supports all input devices that the kernel knows about, > > including most mice, keyboards, tablets and touchscreens. evdev > > is the default driver on the major Linux distributions. > > . . . > > > > > > > > but it seems to not have a 13-current entry. It does have > > a 12.0-RELEASE entry. > > > > Thanks. Kinda odd that freebsd-current doesn't have a manual > page, but FreeBSD-12 does. rgrimes@t400:~ % man evdev No manual entry for evdev rgrimes@t400:~ % man -k evdev apropos: nothing appropriate rgrimes@t400:~ % uname -a FreeBSD t400.dnsmgr.net 12.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE GENERIC amd64 rgrimes@t400:~ % There is no man page for evdev in 12.0-RELEASE > > I have a wireless logitech mouse. It seems that the > wireless USB dongle is causing the load of the modules. > I still understand why as ums(4) does not should a > dependency on uhid, wmt, or evdev. > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 02:48:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A70014EF586 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:48:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org (outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org [54.186.57.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FF19701C6 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:48:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1550458068; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=CYMmLxDVrlwuFzB+5aKO4pQJvhLHmBiNIfvNfUajjAjSWfmH3tbgjtgbG7IU4jZ9aqor/EmziuUfx MHWWX6Iq/JdB4GJwzwPpsS6BrecKFbWgxVc9EGUlBTZdfWnThJHFkh0xgKMPHoajw6pi6OvBOPfunM M7SnlG0HKb7uIOWfpQTIRLc43HGfKPhPmVX8KJN5yknHfDL8h/vqo0U7m3zx8FY64rW/LsGwbs7W4r 6e537jiLJjOW+dRFPsX94XBviohUmEzark+qYaiEXC1Mn50IZ9JRgkBQG3W6KBMp0Uo3x8bhWPBH// erWyzEJCSGOnzAsN2vj1xDb5mRf1GKQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=tYHoTWYUpCvxFjKF3TSvaLdLO7g0F4Vuf1+bF111Qpk=; b=g5KAMDS1FSYA3vAt+xi0TfAdrP3CsnzHtgI6ROh4IvQZG68+DsypavMS1pKD99iUQ+nOQ1Fb8k1XJ IgQePa+PRv2VS5/IXyvQoxQ+n8RDepYSPwUPpCCVVMnxmYnryexFCFFN+bKPSNUIZBi3cOSKycBsxv sWBmXjGc3kcI7Aa4TISplQaeKKBQkh+ks2qAM2niFvZqFJV7crfAjFY35EmuhNlItcISk6wXOM1vng 3RzjkYur9nVOU6fPNVMkVM2p3cfV1pZ9Js/R4irLt7mOH3gNnSWf5xx49pIx2EqS+YdtkxVkYCOWCB qWy5zMKPFkw2zoDW43j7cawbDvglzug== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=tYHoTWYUpCvxFjKF3TSvaLdLO7g0F4Vuf1+bF111Qpk=; b=KsxIBWssZZU56bwqNS3Rp78oQSsnN7gpzzeVQ0CTOUH3uRl+O2FZk3NrgCgf5B+wm9E2Qvn32v4DH oOfikd4MXnNonVrgF3QboeBuqRgJ8/Ekwgj3SdeWEt8eQK6r3C0Mh/qEFBfzIuwcMiGVu1ellCHwZv EolPZ3zbhuZoYqVC6S4muslIXoREAur8nz5Ba+FbP2dkTIcW1G3vvgBhKXU2oqNiaGlWDDfFGb4Jze u9S2BVymCq4EHbwlFKsvqtYD2Zev5NdtyAyHI4JOfa1NIRus+NeC5sdHy2MWHc6ZsEOO7Un5hWCUmV 1AsbeBC1g6XfQz3KVzPRsH4ppLLcGQA== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 92488d09-3327-11e9-9789-75353a1f43cf X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound3.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 92488d09-3327-11e9-9789-75353a1f43cf; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:47:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x1I2mJ3s076432; Sun, 17 Feb 2019 19:48:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <221bcaeb995b085058513323980315b68cd3190f.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? From: Ian Lepore To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 19:48:19 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20190218002455.GA98130@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <4135B088-DF13-4867-ABF4-5659D47C8997@yahoo.com> <20190218002455.GA98130@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8FF19701C6 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.186.0.0/15, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:48:24 -0000 On Sun, 2019-02-17 at 16:24 -0800, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 03:04:41PM -0800, Mark Millard wrote: > > > > > > On 2019-Feb-17, at 10:03, Steve Kargl > troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to > > be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom > > kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and > > wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > How does one prevent this autoloading? > > > > Looking via the web lead to: > > > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=evdev&apropos=0&sektion=4&manpath=FreeBSD+12.0-RELEASE&arch=default&format=html > > So: > > > > NAME > > evdev - Generic Linux input driver > > > > DESCRIPTION > > > > evdev is an Xorg input driver for Linux's generic event > > devices. It > > therefore supports all input devices that the kernel kn > > ows about, > > including most mice, keyboards, tablets and touchscreens. evdev > > is the default driver on the major Linux distributions. > > . . . > > > > > > > > but it seems to not have a 13-current entry. It does have > > a 12.0-RELEASE entry. > > > > Thanks. Kinda odd that freebsd-current doesn't have a manual > page, but FreeBSD-12 does. > That manpage you found online is in section 4x. It probably gets installed along with the xf86-input-evdev package. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 00:02:35 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1923C14E6DF1; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:02:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vladimir@kondratyev.su) Received: from corp.infotel.ru (corp.infotel.ru [195.170.219.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484828FD7B; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:02:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vladimir@kondratyev.su) Received: from corp (corp.infotel.ru [195.170.219.3]) by corp.infotel.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B35629872; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:02:20 +0300 (MSK) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at corp.infotel.ru Received: from corp.infotel.ru ([195.170.219.3]) by corp (corp.infotel.ru [195.170.219.3]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gRULRRqO6ry2; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:02:18 +0300 (MSK) Received: from mail.cicgroup.ru (unknown [195.170.219.74]) by corp.infotel.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC90F29868; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:02:17 +0300 (MSK) Received: from mail.cicgroup.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cicgroup.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 514A742211F; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:02:17 +0300 (MSK) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cicgroup.ru Received: from mail.cicgroup.ru ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.cicgroup.ru (mail.cicgroup.ru [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id HrUP0QtqBWQW; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:02:14 +0300 (MSK) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cicgroup.ru (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4B70242211C; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:02:14 +0300 (MSK) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:02:13 +0300 From: Vladimir Kondratyev To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? In-Reply-To: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Message-ID: <71aa0ee09292b0e8648e385de33c455f@kondratyev.su> X-Sender: vladimir@kondratyev.su User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.5 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 484828FD7B X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.86 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.69)[0.694,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kondratyev.su]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.81)[0.813,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.kondratyev.su]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.36)[0.363,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8299, ipnet:195.170.192.0/19, country:RU]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[country: RU(0.00)] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:06:56 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:02:35 -0000 On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to > be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom > kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and > wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > How does one prevent this autoloading? > Anyone have insight into what evdev is? evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input events like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > I do not need nor what these modules loaded. I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config should disable most of evdev.ko dependencies -- WBR Vladimir Kondratyev From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 08:49:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF01714F7AEE for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:49:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.189.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 690D584894 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:49:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: jnnnZYQVM1lcmDn2bBmKBk1GkTMK1jBY7SePPLLa7pluWLG8O55XB5idhBTicZY apUtlW04Z1S.ja0rNrz..MwSGj04r6IGmlJdOGZRs3wSIgoNrVyjpvMEQ_nX_6BzDvyP8aS1ZEJs o4n3zkCEvIhs9Jyj2VyrE3v4YHr6swCq_EW.eCn56Z_Jj3ddGrWuz4S0_LvyXUHIJuWAy.bZC2b4 aQAnn4vKAtMPFtON_GyXJdDeTYVBqqKWQjhYKXkc3Q54U2WAtp2YqUXAOrZbqZJKiKiJUAa1n0jE 4sOBqD6yOZrexG822dZtmBywxpME8CosJ3UJS26wJvqnjN_xV9r_TjddwQz01UsoHXXWUIg1DiEY k98HDDlo8BQ_7sm.QZdauOMlWGEILV4cbcc9WRkPFhs0wLGxIvb01dj5KDEndWirS7IN10xHqneP KUubG87E2sG3wf1UUuw.CePS4XUklnnuzTyydn.BdCEQH2uWe5S0j6kYU1Ev78PHi0kDKZXRnQiY UFViQs7WCvoBwkpfEa5dc6K__Gpk08h46TZtL_mRD14IL8l5dsVIDR2VoLBuFM0UwhZ1XEVuBW9G WjG2z7jwe1qRu_QA48oLpzNodlQ9nLi8ak5R7lFUJoabf5RXzUCYy.KMQcTklmcYFo62xNJY1qFJ i3sp692QUEUi6xjGXOJlRnbWWiQklstXYgz9Lo7KgEpWT38.6KaByRi3ZngKju_VStkbDbTVvHKU 9RG7BbjhhUgROio3ulegD0RJyodrKOP0P6YU2q2ZPN6DEnHnFaPsDcIpsyMVpuR.5Cha2B.AqITU V8leNanBt2zJnz0dXr89t4Ng0RFBFtBe5LTRYiCaP2xPzIefE3eY7Ld.Fqe3MgGblUymdNCECOdw 2DdmiJEUWsWf_4eoS.bvpsQ7J18qaxqlUy2P29rrpkNgpUwecZC37OSzCvko6aw92a7AYeP7droW L0F8Xax1WOFlDTWP1NoRQeHcoDAFFRIwTVaYTRhAIkeZPc4eqR.u8qYFIrvRRQUuypLulHFtufG2 KbTo14CkDwAKRk5GvxwaPmakCcvkxonwCNfHjjb.fVB_gd3lXr6YQAPPWl7Ru.WKLa3Dm Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:49:51 +0000 Received: from c-67-170-167-181.hsd1.or.comcast.net (EHLO [192.168.1.113]) ([67.170.167.181]) by smtp412.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 20a12c3958418ade33dd20c09f76e8e1; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:49:50 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <201902180235.x1I2ZPoZ003279@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 00:49:48 -0800 Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201902180235.x1I2ZPoZ003279@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 690D584894 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.76 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.66)[0.661,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(1.22)[ip: (4.20), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.10), asn: 36646(0.88), country: US(-0.07)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.79)[0.794,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.59)[0.591,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[82.189.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:49:59 -0000 On 2019-Feb-17, at 18:35, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 03:04:41PM -0800, Mark Millard wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 2019-Feb-17, at 10:03, Steve Kargl wrote: >>>=20 >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to >>> be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom >>> kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and >>> wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. >>> How does one prevent this autoloading? >>>=20 >>> Looking via the web lead to: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > web lies The URL I listed (below) is to www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query. . . and I looked at the page's content before sending the message. That is how I got the text that I quoted. (It is from section 4 "special files".) The freeBSD manpage servers might provide more man pages than are installed? >>>=20 >>> = https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=3Devdev&apropos=3D0&sektion=3D4&= manpath=3DFreeBSD+12.0-RELEASE&arch=3Ddefault&format=3Dhtml >>> So: >>>=20 >>> NAME >>> evdev - Generic Linux input driver >>>=20 >>> DESCRIPTION >>>=20 >>> evdev is an Xorg input driver for Linux's generic event devices. = It >>> therefore supports all input devices that the kernel knows = about, >>> including most mice, keyboards, tablets and touchscreens. evdev >>> is the default driver on the major Linux distributions. >>> . . . >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> but it seems to not have a 13-current entry. It does have >>> a 12.0-RELEASE entry. >>>=20 >>=20 >> Thanks. Kinda odd that freebsd-current doesn't have a manual >> page, but FreeBSD-12 does. >=20 > rgrimes@t400:~ % man evdev > No manual entry for evdev > rgrimes@t400:~ % man -k evdev > apropos: nothing appropriate > rgrimes@t400:~ % uname -a > FreeBSD t400.dnsmgr.net 12.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE GENERIC = amd64 > rgrimes@t400:~ %=20 > There is no man page for evdev in 12.0-RELEASE >=20 >>=20 >> I have a wireless logitech mouse. It seems that the >> wireless USB dongle is causing the load of the modules. >> I still understand why as ums(4) does not should a=20 >> dependency on uhid, wmt, or evdev. >=20 =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 11:06:37 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B1AC14D5DD7; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:06:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sblachmann@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x343.google.com (mail-ot1-x343.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::343]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7D8F892F0; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:06:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sblachmann@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x343.google.com with SMTP id t7so11190365otk.8; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:06:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VgxtP391TkPCX2RNWhaP4svRw/lv0CBul2yjyLNR+dY=; b=G8ukcHSy4xEplwFzfzDh0H9DOySr6bl7sb9bZFTkaAnkCbv2pOghL0IUG0XZ5SdRBu p3xNLAaTCTT/1i3xBJO+dSB7VqO3SdaDIjs9jGVid3EcZ4clYzxtUPC/EmV4ffB2i+UY WzOJ2IsHJ905usJEGSf1lL+4wOateQZX5S7gOwzWRdLpUGghFvxjHk2wyyyijCJQlSLc aIpucMFlmAZpJWefLfaFO1pSAjjm/uomkCvWV0ESnjo1voc0yFl6sVRjFnkY7/W1P/uY 6dWddekDU/VzNHUFG+VDUrWWsS35dyu2+xU7BNVhLo4WeKwW3XjtWgTNY/7xRe/L5Mn8 GWqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VgxtP391TkPCX2RNWhaP4svRw/lv0CBul2yjyLNR+dY=; b=RG6o+AkQYyPbP1+SH7GB1bkvTkNrbnfMufx0xwLwaUcSFLMHr5R6flUXn69GmoTgFY zHYjVcjBNoRrh1RQtHReRLZRh2MSQne/sGcroJCxCt4XKxCNWOgRGlo9kVMRIayEFtNB GI4p0UJ6mR7SzBlhjrBHwIxBB7TU+WLglv3cNGJFqADDUbeT1cnJzplGSaMef7ZOtmMe a3lS6m+7FfXUkUgxSFwFg+XGKbU1zq499jE8IqqiAjHapXOO5r7L1SpLyvmxK/lweZMc y0TUwhSuHMbDTYR7XUR66MPqWZIDMKJ9Ew4kRpya2G0bkR5fqLQjd2mrI9FCvWOtpOTb wg+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZwG6B59RKCc0EkE2u5fGOr6H3RRv9ELb0X3MlMRlzWNwlUnz7Z jslpQDjrX76ANgrebPe8ksjg2RFSfKD1oCFTVdQW2w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IakAUYnOoHdt8bG1N+S3gowfiibCmnZY4TkdFmCpOFOOn/NGZPlQK8j8C0c/XbZ3QRTN65yTQ+TMwWpzGf1q8A= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6189:: with SMTP id g9mr13144696otk.311.1550487996317; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:06:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ac9:3044:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 03:06:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <71aa0ee09292b0e8648e385de33c455f@kondratyev.su> References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <71aa0ee09292b0e8648e385de33c455f@kondratyev.su> From: Stefan Blachmann Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:06:35 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: Vladimir Kondratyev Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E7D8F892F0 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=G8ukcHSy; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of sblachmann@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::343 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sblachmann@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.16 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.14)[0.135,0]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; IP_SCORE(-0.30)[ip: (3.15), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.57), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:06:37 -0000 On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: > On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: >> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input events > like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. >> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config should > disable most of evdev.ko dependencies Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well as libinput not be part of the standard packages? The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up the mess they create. I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland fad... From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 12:02:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F1A14D99D9 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:02:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x342.google.com (mail-ot1-x342.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::342]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 320268BD01 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:02:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x342.google.com with SMTP id v62so18986829otb.3 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 04:02:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=7Rfgih+dsj/mV8kHYyXEQQ2ZwutOUy3WE4J/yvx4OCQ=; b=BLCDy9sedd5j8J2vgvAIuLrnWwhZRNOTimKtUIujVDxgFrCK2AIVQ9bKrHUFGdl3Nq 0/IWSCMC+rNlnrGjXGaGSmaYHi+ASfSKu/s97lghNW5rRF5dj5vhKMDtwX+ZWNvl308O eeuYevNO50/S/xTLAAzlnQ3fUEvqSiQI2DVjewf0xoSxWyM/kX9i3RthRY42OZxhDRum XaJU8cQv30/UyE7ZTm7KKcEea+x+b7vqDf3TCPAptGmc+geTsfF/OlE34DPXDy8ld9mI X7Hw8zGH9wd+q4oxfckTdSZsP2tgJiEoFjpgR8flsCnBtBZ0OdHf70EqR9poDKWK0mvH TXFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=7Rfgih+dsj/mV8kHYyXEQQ2ZwutOUy3WE4J/yvx4OCQ=; b=Lte4x3g078xB5dJqTwTyFs9RBOHDiXfFbdfb8iJVF0jt98ason4xXj8VhJliosy+qe BZXAEVmhcs7BNv6hX0J1POVdQC7A2HNCWYXS2iqtiYd/wQ+cMXqCys7KaCgyHeS5CpgR qnomDEk98PgeSMw0fiN2C1jdlg3QT5SjWBQRSKlnhqsRqBIA1swY32CZHYLfdQvbxwa8 Koay8wE+KB40u8sDgFIJWW7B9QsQyi0hfQDXWL+r+8DUSAt4CaatTA0OG59gWqVbzHoA 2wfzV9wsK+NSOp5QiNXyduztOq1smwGH49BEtkV/TR7LjugEGYH/d7rqLl8XZaWEgokO +AXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubb3eHELZ0UAv9QQSuEXWrovZRp7vQ7obfKhDp/BhYjvDjI8Vza ZI17Y8KnW1NmNeUpIpF/wcQm2Sy4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZXPMZrBWacUuNh8TeASaDVKEkjAzIZdTc9K7OA0vHyRu2KTHhymntyEuZ+XpEDILChxi0skg== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:73cf:: with SMTP id m15mr13539644otk.126.1550491373025; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 04:02:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.33] ([81.174.250.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h138sm462829oic.8.2019.02.18.04.02.51 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 04:02:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <71aa0ee09292b0e8648e385de33c455f@kondratyev.su> From: Johannes Lundberg Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=johalun0@gmail.com; keydata= mQINBFxFmoIBEADoFO5jY+Fmsg44KiZjufEmpEf4kt7nCOfxNG9SruWpoXUaq0B296F+fIZC hNZqv1v7lGTsfoWRusxJmLd5CQgHHxEyruZbbPpNsQ/JKoDY3GGmrmWfN/SX3y0t0kdB9HsW mJcvZhK7we52f4gxddIVBS9nQoVoONX+hzXf8zwOAa0ik0EPgEwpIKS4j9lLq4bU+mqVKdRR bPeDujEA/qbsCKhaFJkPzXZtzEe6srq4RK1doEztwnKz02b+8gs642TRkWDQeTRZputrAaoN Un4R76A1QpXWyrFG1dQu48IGHi3KbkrvNyq6R1aUBIA0+CG1npIbxmc2mtSjoyvdipmDRbBD +mhECIxmYfBT6818zuj91XjrfOyfVdV2BryBvqFkJLkS3N3QElBIiVdDgdrqiNFWiOlDMxNI tdP16oQBNo8IB27/0YHpnQEw1MafZv5gG5DO0zLtLy88ASAfL7BYf90JP19rT4JIwnxsXxyv kEJnzhsXf0QVObEiAu1MqeFyWfZ8PpunmvEmJ0VChOL+v/kIx1E9cxhhzMZhqiMXfyM4zx2+ BF1FwAwJYPuJLu2B3L0uVBu+M1YvSOmKAbXPDP8PsqPjgSBTYI51MUjuuxN6jSsHDuK6G5k4 pUWR8axa+wafhd6Vz8zVwdTJZ9LdxgLLVg0kprBgccPHhPAZVQARAQABtCZKb2hhbm5lcyBM dW5kYmVyZyA8am9oYWx1bjBAZ21haWwuY29tPokCVAQTAQgAPhYhBIl1Pb3+hI60ivmRSULn yG4BGvSeBQJcRZqCAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEELnyG4B GvSe9O0P/RzeQAu1R37RlONZTXNn+qIAHvHbZEhzrCibzaZnwYdC31wGrYmXNDyiQIqOngFf QJuufQtH/+95OESJsjR+42L/pNfFdaEWxiI003qE7uCMzLK5UWUXd/5d5vYY0CaPyNCj1tyM ZIq7x4CaR3QLTh/Fw4zMUI/ZPH2S5SxVFGv0ZZFAdNYILD3qCkAS/9HmXsqufBWbfutA8TTf wyJfywmvf7ENjlZ4QOjb242ZY9NndqbmqTgWVAws+PN5e9AT8HkadscCTCSkYnxJyYG2El27 DpAAkekYplb/C0j82KSz2fy9RgwD+tTqt88DJOeFbIbrYt44u7KLHpzaZeqyUtn0reHCkE0W lnKH2kXXbuswFB4sONxI/J5+qSmOsAm5ItO3voyjm/swpmFR1yBlxo4th26gbO5NfBOK9YsY zHKgiRDv6ZdnHo+htphRxcCDHsFPzkQe5jouI25dvMZYl1LaTS/09lwYVwVIB2SFmMtFZ7rB N4NBSzPlpsg+g4dJNqiw6Rfa2Q/wUv+MzTJgLtHjDccXlpm33Nc09UytHFtNn26PO/zrM39r TwzdLu1mg0x2WWEWTIqe4CaczQU9SIg49BSyJNoPSZx3V7nMhTKbOeQKR5aV3dXI66aENw86 pa1tipuUKCPmope/GTJatUgPiD3JkyiD+7c1zQX2UAGmuQINBFxFmoIBEACb55RAkM59huAx 4Ddd8WBjsw25qf7rzxeRKAQ7or/8LvJBYQDPXZy0RhkRiu+P+MjxwGb6HVh+LDyAYDn9d8Mt ZqCP/dOGNcl7pkb6IhfRc3i5neckXCYfbm0cigiX9JkqZSt3KT96zbjCxsFZKyIyEFsMl46q 7wKWK5Irj3zxV/Z51JNTJyMLcIRWhY8G6qlMNFgZkz2Hv63w6BRekKVImOmOdThLAscy5ybq 2CIUeAwPG7lMYG9rgcPdn3tMPeWlLmUmi5pSwOQ3AKg3xFrW3WfegjRHdqpeuXoeTjYPPCW4 gyl59uv6E12a6eivItCxj67vlBXgOr4um+zoPyXG/WfidIFtWaEgyBrlGR1Klk7SIcqjEHUA FdiM+PweY4opHXXKn60NOZCqBJ59K43drOQgRouz8E2T3yEoYg40xAfY3lhJV/Vx5+kSTjmy sT2xotlPn/GzfaAEvNuJDK+Mec3LvfbbDoOWFolNyEvoMQqF5Q3A8eGqYsoVGBPxyzNvF2iY LkymxiXpgrSN0Q/LOK7pFlWwbVC8Z6g5I0J9ecgD55dGLoX2luLir787XX/JxGffzbRnP9NE ifenJGrQmx4CyEaz/CHQqSbROm5Uo/YFUX9J7OfUO4mtu90j773j32I3psey/Fz3EC/A2PHv Ghb0KsWYpS3Pj5TV1gGyswARAQABiQI8BBgBCAAmFiEEiXU9vf6EjrSK+ZFJQufIbgEa9J4F AlxFmoICGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQQufIbgEa9J7qOQ//YG/4e69YTSjtiYLXzBI8tRU2Sx+NFByx zx+C/r0EBThLtgRwCqEUZRB7iIDSO8aZ0Qa3vwWRohlD1tn/LBdDFfMmuQkNVdLIrjBoGBB9 B5xHdZJ9xnTZEwpTtk6IWolT4j+8rpGemGKKiFo3X6l02On4Qb4iM7h6rcDb76mfwooNYzB3 8PPcLvyOWb/9iCXAb5N7doo5zmOl15DVwvIF04eXU0q1FFj/iS1zNmtZ5Got82O1TQFV+de4 Rb3YA80IZhhhCiHHJqkMKeKQogRqU+UNDBARUBxfUtKsJtQzTQ2JUGwkb6X6bx53FTLP6O9q hDoODVweE1LdB1k1H5Nn+gawPdRMBqj43Y2amK7KEgoTBrwU04CLpKiaAC0S+EcJFfJcwtpK k3F+uTtP/hnhFnWbn8SgRkHKXKWqSCt63NstXhMzAJut1gEzV+CcPNKqa/sFgQaYEvzCS5Kl F/PXj0++f3TIFqT+2ZNNp8Bz8dT7gh8RPPg5oYQiCHH8K1RAmq7gKqmwyg0qgOazHnped+od X4f3qx320JAP6NP9wglDm6eht48NJzb0sffN8z34wrP66oz8oPKtS5CFV0m/384hEg0lmi3W wo2Hno7rA1etTPJX0dI6/GLlQDtNTHvKQ077HQdWVOMQVWC9j7YH7Zr9NjtOvxcNVRX3fxpJ 6CE= X-Tagtoolbar-Keys: D20190218120250165 Message-ID: <928394c1-adab-d5bb-e2de-bd41a940392d@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:02:50 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; 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ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.18)[ip: (3.72), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.57), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.4.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:02:55 -0000 On 2/18/19 11:06 AM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input events= >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config should= >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? Evdev with libinput provide things like, multitouch gestures, horizontal scrolling, touchpad support, etc, i.e. functionality that one might expect from a laptop or desktop computer newer than 10 years,=C2=A0 also = for X11. Having it enabled by default doesn't force you to use it but it makes it a whole lot easier for all of those who want to use it. Please try to consider what is the best middle ground for ALL users. If you have a special application for FreeBSD you're probably building your own kernel anyway and it is easy to disable if needed. Most normal (and especially new to FreeBSD) desktop/laptop users use stock kernel and would benefit from having access to this functionality. Cheers > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up the > mess they create. > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland fad..= =2E > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 06:41:50 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0EB14F4CE8; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 06:41:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartmann@walstatt.org) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1BEE80330; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 06:41:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartmann@walstatt.org) Received: from freyja ([46.88.80.226]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MQzoI-1gTYBp2bnC-00UGBP; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 07:41:24 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 07:41:13 +0100 From: "O. Hartmann" To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Mark Millard , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218074107.7b9afcda@freyja> In-Reply-To: <201902180235.x1I2ZPoZ003279@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> References: <20190218002455.GA98130@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902180235.x1I2ZPoZ003279@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:PrXMd9DQOwifOTi6BgDHpSieJJk33sm8jMBx00smdQA8NWPgU/n bUPexDMFdAb3ZL7ivQSJqaMIwNqF3pP5owkSfhPUeMy2yqmx4PkpcxykDyG91eHwqMQO2k0 R2t0i3phV9EI48Zkf/wWZHE7p5lBaKlmzAll++PnFiCkrIOfZ0trxZ3DgaAQza792W1XnbY Fe673AbB9iY4h8WfEXEKw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:iPCV8uxLs1s=:eErITMq32UK2k/VZwxLn5q xxVtp2jb3RBprg+VpdGqyrlNY1p2WjjKcf6FZ9lnJb1Wp04kGY2BRNDWlWy1czwu6VFpiZ/Oq lbxQiEvpq5pacNO3C/iPUm0hxengwgZ58H9b1g40eIiaJGTvW22RESXjMPSszVfb5Jzf+Waxs Tyyu4aEfxHO45deg79M5ZXMwCy0OkkW9wxrneH2hJTwcp6Us3mUf4klP2nQEWigcBXO6jV1ha v2hQBweNUuYbdGHms0fwATcJ00vFWVIacUN28ZM18R/5yFG1gGiED2RxRyHkiK5pOlT1mNjWL +bwZXmlWfdWrUeG4FlTMbB+uv/osUHkuQy8rrjUp9UHZxudcUoWe7p+SvtPThPyTXQ5V/1k7l SAx6M4r/cJebC08/W6XeHsQiFMqPbi5ujijQdpS3nT0O2vVoDx2tBVaieGO0ZZbIBxeSX5v/S kxj1GN9OtktW0+732VLUj24iutM/iHVSGi65jyerMaulT2E5u2GgqPeIJB0XlTe1BBUFrYEZC vk+8qH7frvGERXaqMdl0GFiNViDlW3ro/eDq4u/uQZb5BibZShGrIzR0Y2dI1NTeKdeY2bqVq WLiRN+3rEu7tuFTTa8Q1VENvH/u2Khj6ejgAbNwAueFdZ0f750eMtYh/ZIeIpWNagX9AEeG9n MxM00WHwH5UaKWc10si0jDWJavnJdEfiIy4RUB/DbHgdeDW0Gbab22jbEVltsJhhxYsnkhNj2 qdmmxABPrvSewTJ7pS7820VYJ2IorZdF8UmrEj+87hp2T4yJQOkApehKTZxRViYBewnsCiU80 yVbJJqE0SnIUfNyYYrJHj+qS2m4Avhm+f7yPkvBnXgWnEj+Xk4bBNfm2ZR0uvpAuyzcgBQmkQ jVooyY+4NdLBi/vv1K43UFOiWXh4umBVOYacpMs22X4Zt1wRz2f/l1mTtiAElb1KUq14MS8ot VHBHOPUNWoA== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B1BEE80330 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.49 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.64)[-0.638,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.49)[ip: (-3.50), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-0.84), asn: 8560(1.90), country: DE(-0.01)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[walstatt.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.84)[-0.845,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.gmx.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.80)[-0.804,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[226.80.88.46.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[22.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.3.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:15:58 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 06:41:50 -0000 On Sun, 17 Feb 2019 18:35:25 -0800 (PST) "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 03:04:41PM -0800, Mark Millard wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 2019-Feb-17, at 10:03, Steve Kargl > > troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > > Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to > > > be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom > > > kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and > > > wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > > How does one prevent this autoloading? > > > > > > Looking via the web lead to: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > web lies > > > > > > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=evdev&apropos=0&sektion=4&manpath=FreeBSD+12.0-RELEASE&arch=default&format=html > > > So: > > > > > > NAME > > > evdev - Generic Linux input driver > > > > > > DESCRIPTION > > > > > > evdev is an Xorg input driver for Linux's generic event devices. > > > It therefore supports all input devices that the kernel knows > > > about, including most mice, keyboards, tablets and touchscreens. evdev > > > is the default driver on the major Linux distributions. > > > . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > but it seems to not have a 13-current entry. It does have > > > a 12.0-RELEASE entry. > > > > > > > Thanks. Kinda odd that freebsd-current doesn't have a manual > > page, but FreeBSD-12 does. > > rgrimes@t400:~ % man evdev > No manual entry for evdev > rgrimes@t400:~ % man -k evdev > apropos: nothing appropriate > rgrimes@t400:~ % uname -a > FreeBSD t400.dnsmgr.net 12.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE GENERIC amd64 > rgrimes@t400:~ % > There is no man page for evdev in 12.0-RELEASE > > > > > I have a wireless logitech mouse. It seems that the > > wireless USB dongle is causing the load of the modules. > > I still understand why as ums(4) does not should a > > dependency on uhid, wmt, or evdev. > > > Nor 12-STABLE: root@freyja:/usr/src # man -k evdev apropos: nothing appropriate FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE #290 r344158: Fri Feb 15 14:42:58 CET 2019 amd64 Kind regards, oh From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 12:43:30 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5ED14DB264; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:43:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [IPv6:2607:f740:d:20::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCC4F8D48D; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:43:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising@freebsd.org) Received: from cid.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4433Sb53N6zDjVM; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:43:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mail.daemonic.se ([IPv6:::1]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256) by cid.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10587) with ESMTPS id uvDiIQECxIjZ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:43:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from garnet.daemonic.se (host-95-192-217-26.mobileonline.telia.com [95.192.217.26]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4433SX668fzDjCL; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:43:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev Cc: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <71aa0ee09292b0e8648e385de33c455f@kondratyev.su> From: Niclas Zeising Message-ID: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 13:43:22 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DCC4F8D48D X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.96 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.963,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:2607:f740:d::/48, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:43:30 -0000 On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input events >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config should >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up the > mess they create. > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland fad... EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a lot of input devices stop working, or work much worse. We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new users, and make current users use FreeBSD more. Evdev and libinput is used by both Wayland and xorg. You are free to use either one. Regards -- Niclas Zeising FreeBSD Graphics Team From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 15:32:12 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A080014DEEE7; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 15:32:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A52766C8EC; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 15:32:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x1IFCPAY005712; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 07:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x1IFCOwm005711; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 07:12:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? In-Reply-To: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> To: Niclas Zeising Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 07:12:24 -0800 (PST) CC: Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A52766C8EC X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.07 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.39)[0.394,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.83)[0.834,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.46)[0.461,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[ip: (0.02), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.01), asn: 13868(-0.01), country: US(-0.07)]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SORTED_RECIPS(3.50)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 15:32:12 -0000 > On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: > >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input events > >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > > > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > > > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config should > >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > > > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well > > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > > > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers > > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up the > > mess they create. > > > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland fad... > > EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve > input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a lot > of input devices stop working, or work much worse. > > We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the > FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new users, > and make current users use FreeBSD more. Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier to use graphical stuff this way. These seem to be conflicting stories. > > Evdev and libinput is used by both Wayland and xorg. You are free to > use either one. And sadly now must take action when no action was required before when using neither. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 15:57:01 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723BD14DFF75; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 15:57:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CB646D84D; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 15:57:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (etoilebsd.net [178.32.217.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8E0FDE029; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 15:56:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D6D8EB732B; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:56:57 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:56:57 +0100 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Niclas Zeising , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Stefan Blachmann , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218155656.2mefeqixly6h25us@ivaldir.net> References: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mz3cptckyzkaom3k" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8CB646D84D X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.971,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:96.47.64.0/20, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 15:57:01 -0000 --mz3cptckyzkaom3k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:12:24AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > > > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: > > >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > > >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input even= ts > > >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > >=20 > > > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > > > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > > >=20 > > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config shou= ld > > >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > >=20 > > > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well > > > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > >=20 > > > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers > > > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > > > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up the > > > mess they create. > > >=20 > > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland fad= =2E.. > >=20 > > EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve=20 > > input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a lot= =20 > > of input devices stop working, or work much worse. > >=20 > > We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the=20 > > FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new users,= =20 > > and make current users use FreeBSD more. >=20 > Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, > telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working > because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, > oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier > to use graphical stuff this way. >=20 > These seem to be conflicting stories. >=20 You are missing the point, one does not evolve as fast as the other, meaning one can be maintained within usual freebsd lifecycle, the other cannot or it becomes very painful. Bapt --mz3cptckyzkaom3k Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAlxq1cUACgkQY4mL3PG3 PlqdZQ/+PhAx2+Psefj4h846oBTwMjN03RuDOTUb+XrJZIyr6waYP8dHtZX5+VOE 7vMp+kHY5iFYrmx4fbpXpaQ3U5r24rGoO/ktWPET3mGTpETcYHpe+MTOMX00d2lB RR0tW1cDQT9qXBUTdGUdkOdGETSWwauDvzumcPY1RbnX8BlSVb8BvHmLV5wDPv9x +cTjygEhqMPwp5XjFpJrT6qlHSXxJcNnQa8zAT3pgpGqX3Zhf+iseWiPlKfZ4SxU LfOCaz+jxGUXi++THFJgKitFxPypWNiithqnN6nN3fsNiEC5uak4NbmKRNB40r2r HWsTd6nfGwUTN3XBLH3Z+1JArlSr7I30HYnwheNwjcmf8vMa26jOtdWTlApdq15q L1XOhxnEhVZW/+SSY0cZx7ic8wYxKYtjPJ1Ghv/9BONCS2OV3ktrH21S7aRO+xUy rmZtSD5Vn1uwWPE0r6dlzx3E29InSj9cqrqdbT5KLcW/vOXfE1AHs4InvBO0Bt9R YEBfgX0a0R9Xj/3yZEbyf8nArA5H30hJPJoBz/SBQXbtxqowTtK0scrDTRmGwwBB BRxWbJY8MEo8c8iFYMaoluVKAdDfnomSmdDXoBUatc8W211iVM/GpQp+LipY9xtU MpcGi5Yl8lZEVRVWHRTTS98c/A6KWeSimGoeuh8c/I9iTEsPgGM= =o0Zz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mz3cptckyzkaom3k-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 16:11:30 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1441E14E0AB5 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:11:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x741.google.com (mail-qk1-x741.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::741]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84BB66E7AC for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:11:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x741.google.com with SMTP id h28so6428720qkk.7 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:11:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=o81iQshmY8bndyj4QyGgg7qH/OwOC1BRDHBlIAh/akw=; b=Hoxa/L5dYOXJOCHiLAvh2coO5ywRsWgNs5kO+4FjkpFP0wEwIzaPg0Omf69JXWDuJv X2RcMND5xQ+KgTaBCDzE8M/mgmrcko3hfCVcUp6SgZtwglJtY4oBJRxw4Nd8ZcxKQFfd Kr62faceeCThu9Zb6IiO7/hqny99u48PR/ONRNT7HkZuo1ycTNlNATDJDbUfxC7o0pyU PO5uX5DND/NtZ0w6PVcKlmqbw3ejmdxpAFZ5rqz/49/8QlBGXzxxYodYmsj0tCJ5YXyM ZjMEbMegk6KtXaCPGg3Qv+n2M3nQdNZ6wnfekLjqqC706DDymODahHZ37vxZaI26JOrU Se1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=o81iQshmY8bndyj4QyGgg7qH/OwOC1BRDHBlIAh/akw=; b=bIu9dpeUcGAdhCiFDclu8aFsTqSRIiq8bm1/ZE4pt7wjfbRYtQ5I9AG1z/G+CTJ6SY J1gWwMh8Gz1HaInE13RpoeiukvhjtSuRNnHxXEf6YXv2XaTfYSimLx9kzlQjhEp4yJWb fythOr4vHEEjdptgpd0bH1gdE8XRUoY6j6Ck4a4wHRcp7OGY5aO0EC4vSJcYkJbmjWw8 dCiO2R8cVYPjf4XyPZPsECfK4xsPRN3Zwvm5XBdOXm9wCX1V4WTRmc+zURbvhqaZYGIu /28c2gybEdvaJpIk9B7173J1Jv+ow0+3ZWaJLUR1cAOa5HJt5i8eS+4XWvdkLFegptPZ 78ng== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYJjKj14Iuu5tUZkbyAUf3jzjTQxMAB1ueH18FpocKgONsQOWhK o8uONLbDk+9gf0F2qIirdFhGinY6aDnobl+rmOrNIA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZD4qiA9m7SJyiK36QVMRrHcfeapmMkHwyLX4jWqO6uaCpxW6AOMB0SzhnU3BEPAMHfQKNm3uC24NpOnSJSSvo= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:e702:: with SMTP id m2mr8505010qka.279.1550506285870; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:11:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:11:14 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 84BB66E7AC X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=Hoxa/L5d X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.27 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.26)[-0.260,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.01)[0.011,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.12)[ip: (4.05), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.57), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.90)[-0.900,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,ALT2.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:11:30 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:33 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > > > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: > > >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > > >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input events > > >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > > > > > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > > > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > > > > > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config should > > >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > > > > > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well > > > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > > > > > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers > > > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > > > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up the > > > mess they create. > > > > > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland > fad... > > > > EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve > > input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a lot > > of input devices stop working, or work much worse. > > > > We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the > > FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new users, > > and make current users use FreeBSD more. > > Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, > telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working > because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, > oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier > to use graphical stuff this way. > The drm stuff in the tree didn't support new hardware. And the in-tree rules made it impossible to import the GPL'd graphics drivers. And the in-tree code was abandonware that worked only by accident. > These seem to be conflicting stories. > You do know these constant complaints about people trying to make things better is demoralizing and counter productive. > > > Evdev and libinput is used by both Wayland and xorg. You are free to > > use either one. > > And sadly now must take action when no action was required before > when using neither. > Oh for foxs sake. We have so much stuff in the GENERIC kernel today that this complaint rings hallow. How many desktop users benefit from TCP_OFFLOAD? How many people SCTP? How many people are using ahc, ahd, siis, mvs, ata, hptiop, esp, trm, amr, ciss, twa, mfi, cbb, pccard, cardbus, de, le, ti, ae, hme, cas, nge, sf, tl, tx, wb, all the sound drivers, or all 4 of the different virtualization environments at the same time? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 16:11:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3998B14E0AC6; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:11:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4629A6E7D4; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:11:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x1IGBR79005948; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:11:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x1IGBQMD005946; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:11:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201902181611.x1IGBQMD005946@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? In-Reply-To: <20190218155656.2mefeqixly6h25us@ivaldir.net> To: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:11:26 -0800 (PST) CC: Niclas Zeising , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Stefan Blachmann , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Vladimir Kondratyev X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4629A6E7D4 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.15 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.862,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[ip: (0.02), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.01), asn: 13868(-0.01), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.83)[0.833,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.58)[0.580,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:11:31 -0000 > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:12:24AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > > > > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: > > > >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > > > >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input events > > > >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > > > > > > > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > > > > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > > > > > > > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > > >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config should > > > >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > > > > > > > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well > > > > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > > > > > > > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers > > > > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > > > > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up the > > > > mess they create. > > > > > > > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland fad... > > > > > > EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve > > > input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a lot > > > of input devices stop working, or work much worse. > > > > > > We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the > > > FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new users, > > > and make current users use FreeBSD more. > > > > Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, > > telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working > > because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, > > oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier > > to use graphical stuff this way. > > > > These seem to be conflicting stories. > > > You are missing the point, one does not evolve as fast as the other, meaning > one can be maintained within usual freebsd lifecycle, the other cannot or it > becomes very painful. So to ditch our 5 years support model, kick the code out of the tree and make the users suffer? The support model is suppose to be under review, and IMHO, if kicking functional code out of the base system is to make it possible to meet some support model we should defanitly take a very close look at that issue. The code has simply gone from being in base to a few git repositories which are probably going to rot every time a breaking ABI change occurs and we wend up with un happy users, un happy developers and bugmisters who have to close bogus bug reports. Have we really moved the state of the art forward by this action, simply in the name of "we could not suppor that code?" -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 16:33:05 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CA214E1ADD for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:33:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x844.google.com (mail-qt1-x844.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::844]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C4136FECB for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:33:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x844.google.com with SMTP id b8so19789867qtr.9 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:33:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JbPDdJJOLofwgwGdEbIEx/dCWpVs2snSZ1cmDe2RnNM=; b=JAKSsvkKxc7IEgmIJoTH99uI7Q21O7jLY/xZAHdijCiZD2bc6/HSeGw3DiaZZmtvy1 cF77wyqde9PD5HWJ0t/zeyr5+l5hJW6bBMTx9M93Og3+Rb5GCQaqq/M0D9/mww/o0TvX HpqjupzdA6HhaX2sGwy0hAnaPqmaWcDzDk2d6gJA8o2X9QEj6ETpP+2QHIIzb5j/WZzP fmD0GAiML8PLK+dYEHyKtCuh0nb6oyLS0tpR8CIvIHFPG33GeNtEituo0GE/p5tpXtLu psLCdX/9jUF5YK3ugd13OokFMIcMRVMrrfNKGtX13ql5iQHGQr66WWeklN/RurIkui3E LunQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JbPDdJJOLofwgwGdEbIEx/dCWpVs2snSZ1cmDe2RnNM=; b=V2DXY1cT0Odg3W7QADhA/prRxWn5NQGQ1bzNjuw5+KAvhHPUeTN9HvhkZNG5gAljW9 oMSXOaYYXtRgZtzkpk7sj10VPq1e1umunDbuUvTku2UBFJN5pANM+u1WS9/ZkgcWtt5u bUfNARuK2JFoVI1TW6KRdwl9rNhf4UXew6iPq+TXgBH8blpMYG7RK1mR0z+OVZMna2zp jaRXSAQWicedZv2EDck5FLVcOa2v3yI+YIKAEipoLdqlwSBlaAoD5yQE5RtWnxfgUtue y6tiUOdpXmSo6YMI+wx9B6hzxh/QSJ0/hFTF3Wm+dlX59aUeCuSvMJQXxnWwrMZU+Nal zQ2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZcPR5oCfDvHOfxAgMHy2ZvDaNB7JGjRaX+qjwJ0aqxdd8I8lMV M5XBF3Dl5HslbwO+8xwWZh6zIKwkyRA0SGxWyFbXPg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYzVQr9Tm2ckvRY2KImR+Riqhy0Ph/IzwZWnF3ilv9W3XQCZTmWvrOKeY3vPInYlcNjDpqxzRzhJXmovhp4BFw= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e98f:: with SMTP id z15mr18267976qvn.115.1550507583621; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:33:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190218155656.2mefeqixly6h25us@ivaldir.net> <201902181611.x1IGBQMD005946@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201902181611.x1IGBQMD005946@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:32:52 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2C4136FECB X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=JAKSsvkK X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.26 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.03)[-0.026,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.18)[0.181,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.06)[ip: (4.33), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.57), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.83)[-0.825,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:33:05 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:12:24AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > > > > > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: > > > > >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > > >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > > > > >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input > events > > > > >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > > > > > > > > > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > > > > > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > > > > > > > > > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > > > >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config > should > > > > >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > > > > > > > > > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as > well > > > > > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > > > > > > > > > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay > Sievers > > > > > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > > > > > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up > the > > > > > mess they create. > > > > > > > > > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland > fad... > > > > > > > > EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve > > > > input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a > lot > > > > of input devices stop working, or work much worse. > > > > > > > > We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the > > > > FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new > users, > > > > and make current users use FreeBSD more. > > > > > > Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, > > > telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working > > > because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, > > > oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier > > > to use graphical stuff this way. > > > > > > These seem to be conflicting stories. > > > > > You are missing the point, one does not evolve as fast as the other, > meaning > > one can be maintained within usual freebsd lifecycle, the other cannot > or it > > becomes very painful. > > So to ditch our 5 years support model, kick the code out of the tree and > make the users suffer? The support model is suppose to be under review, > and IMHO, if kicking functional code out of the base system is to make > it possible to meet some support model we should defanitly take a very > close look at that issue. > > The code has simply gone from being in base to a few git repositories > which are probably going to rot every time a breaking ABI change occurs > and we wend up with un happy users, un happy developers and bugmisters > who have to close bogus bug reports. > > Have we really moved the state of the art forward by this action, simply > in the name of "we could not suppor that code?" > I don't know. I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything newer than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the old way is broken and doesn't work. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 16:35:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D60D14E1CEA for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:35:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBDE87012A for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:35:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id v10so19843297qtp.8 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UVtTGJasIaMEMwexe1hhDBtP4J+jl+3ySvsWr9mSk6w=; b=xDDYov5Yj4zGH9GJI3/9fCVTlNQ+VXN7R1x/O7xncNUNTqAJF0t9p5f3kmAVliU6p4 lAYcP9bfucnNtsSpMHkLvR5FJQsbT3zuyj5mhADHn/CbXwHGUC+xjT2AX9AwVT/VkeU0 eV2akn/4Bws3JIwGY/xERXIzmiA+X6IPV9LoW/qyhZNpb8tSFsSSK+LcF/KqBGcauihj qPy6Q+V460cCPjkDDUgnM+65DtdwGxDLGEA5vab32Rev/0nojgt+KJMnByjxQzw6PIsB a6glQJ+DP/9nsu78hIlQYamL2AJdTGTYd6qd+sPTe0OK3Kh7xtmu7towsdXEC7uA2+lm W6PQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UVtTGJasIaMEMwexe1hhDBtP4J+jl+3ySvsWr9mSk6w=; b=PLCeO34XLpt2PpNM5K8XbFtAMNZxPj9g/wJ72MgEyhKBZ2U6Nwck4bGt5LcbZkO0S/ TXQsY52KXfUzvj52QyBgCECAN+sb+joB1oeq1gs/QxmtDjWvB5K6yHYt2o6iI2Q2mcPb xGNulFC8uU9DuDetsBdGumBBQFaWLV68j67Yel9Xt7RQHyHqKqXln3VpA4LDxyHsZee5 OXb917UNvBSUTyY/xEJxZhQPwz14cN/2FyD57KTYYWSBMqIBBpLpjylG0omAY1MrncgO NOqnYxMc2L2jcY8LEHirKHnpMkkrubT3fHJXdWeKkozZC8cB5/9UHcEjq7FmKFNFkx1P nq1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubEmA3gCb+501888n3KVCuhYFvmhm2ex/wpkBZH0rvqCh0ajsT7 v2aHwIbUT2ZypBPqen7FXolPVxhkNcFCLzfrvsUf/g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYHnHbdiOEU80jdt/txgL4ehQq6uX8ElDp5BW9fK/neFvNLtkWllbOPiCIUY91eGsKQwjMV6mUtKveOaFmIgPI= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:16d0:: with SMTP id y16mr18428974qtk.345.1550507737273; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:35:26 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: Steve Kargl Cc: FreeBSD Current , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BBDE87012A X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=xDDYov5Y X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.65 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.73)[ip: (-9.03), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.57), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.911,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:35:38 -0000 On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 3:52 PM Steve Kargl < sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to > be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom > kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and > wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > How does one prevent this autoloading? > Hi Steve, This thread has taken a weird turn, so I went back to the original post. When do these things get loaded? Is it when you start up X11? Or is it being brought in by devmatch? If it is being brought in by x11, there's likely an x11 config that you'll need to avoid them (but that will reduce functionality). If it is devmatch, then you can add them to the black list and have them not load them. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 16:38:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E42C14E2017; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:38:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95D1A70408; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:38:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1IGcMjq003048 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1IGcMu6003047; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:38:22 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Niclas Zeising , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Stefan Blachmann , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218163822.GA2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218155656.2mefeqixly6h25us@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190218155656.2mefeqixly6h25us@ivaldir.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 95D1A70408 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.03 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.77)[0.771,0]; IP_SCORE(0.08)[ip: (0.15), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.21), asn: 73(0.10), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.61)[0.609,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.88)[0.882,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:38:32 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 04:56:57PM +0100, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:12:24AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, > > telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working > > because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, > > oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier > > to use graphical stuff this way. > > > > These seem to be conflicting stories. > > > You are missing the point, one does not evolve as fast as the other, meaning > one can be maintained within usual freebsd lifecycle, the other cannot or it > becomes very painful. > And you seem to be missing the point. I'm now in week two of trying to figure out why drm-legacy-kmod no longer works, and suddenly new devices are popping up which are not configured in my kernel. I have deleted all ports. I have delete /usr/src and /usr/obj. I used svn to pull a -r "{2019-01-01}" /usr/src. That builds and works fine. I then build the minimum ports needs to install drm-legacy-kmod and xorg. I can fire a fvwm2 desktop. I'm now up to -r "{2019-01-28}". Yes, bi-section be date. It takes 6-7 hours to rebuild world and kernel and another hour or 2 for the minimum set of ports. PS: It still does answer why there isn't a manual page for evdev. -- steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 16:45:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25A7514E2690; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:45:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A5F270B25; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:45:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1IGjdBe003116 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:45:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1IGjced003115; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:45:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:45:38 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Warner Losh Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218164538.GB2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190218155656.2mefeqixly6h25us@ivaldir.net> <201902181611.x1IGBQMD005946@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5A5F270B25 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.98 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.08)[ip: (0.15), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.21), asn: 73(0.10), country: US(-0.07)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.83)[0.830,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.77)[0.772,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.61)[0.614,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:45:42 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:32:52AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W. Grimes < > freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > So to ditch our 5 years support model, kick the code out of the tree and > > make the users suffer? The support model is suppose to be under review, > > and IMHO, if kicking functional code out of the base system is to make > > it possible to meet some support model we should defanitly take a very > > close look at that issue. > > > > The code has simply gone from being in base to a few git repositories > > which are probably going to rot every time a breaking ABI change occurs > > and we wend up with un happy users, un happy developers and bugmisters > > who have to close bogus bug reports. > > > > Have we really moved the state of the art forward by this action, simply > > in the name of "we could not suppor that code?" > > > > I don't know. I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything newer > than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the old way > is broken and doesn't work. > When drm2 was unhooked from the build, it was working fine. drm2 was unhooked because it supposedly interferred with the drm-stable-kmod and drm-current-kmod ports. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 16:50:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FA4A14E2A50; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:50:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 598C770EC0; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:50:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x1IGoRZ3006132; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:50:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x1IGoRsZ006131; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:50:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:50:27 -0800 (PST) CC: Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 598C770EC0 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.19 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.85)[0.850,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[ip: (0.02), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.01), asn: 13868(-0.01), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.91)[0.911,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.56)[0.556,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:50:32 -0000 > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W. Grimes < > freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:12:24AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > > > > > > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: > > > > > >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > > > >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > > > > > >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input > > events > > > > > >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > > > > > > > > > > > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > > > > > > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > > > > >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config > > should > > > > > >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > > > > > > > > > > > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as > > well > > > > > > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay > > Sievers > > > > > > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > > > > > > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up > > the > > > > > > mess they create. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland > > fad... > > > > > > > > > > EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve > > > > > input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a > > lot > > > > > of input devices stop working, or work much worse. > > > > > > > > > > We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the > > > > > FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new > > users, > > > > > and make current users use FreeBSD more. > > > > > > > > Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, > > > > telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working > > > > because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, > > > > oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier > > > > to use graphical stuff this way. > > > > > > > > These seem to be conflicting stories. > > > > > > > You are missing the point, one does not evolve as fast as the other, > > meaning > > > one can be maintained within usual freebsd lifecycle, the other cannot > > or it > > > becomes very painful. > > > > So to ditch our 5 years support model, kick the code out of the tree and > > make the users suffer? The support model is suppose to be under review, > > and IMHO, if kicking functional code out of the base system is to make > > it possible to meet some support model we should defanitly take a very > > close look at that issue. > > > > The code has simply gone from being in base to a few git repositories > > which are probably going to rot every time a breaking ABI change occurs > > and we wend up with un happy users, un happy developers and bugmisters > > who have to close bogus bug reports. > > > > Have we really moved the state of the art forward by this action, simply > > in the name of "we could not suppor that code?" > > > > I don't know. I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything newer > than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the old way > is broken and doesn't work. But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that 5 year old hardware that are totally happy with the intree DRM2 that is in stable/12, and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with the "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit). I know that there is wip to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start changing the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right. Port up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code from base would be a much more appropriate path. I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things simply on the "5 year old" basis. Not everyone, and infact few now a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware, giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5 years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low. One of the long standing features of running a BSD is that it could stretch very good life out of hardware, and imho it would be in our best interest to try and keep that. And we do in most aspects, though recently in some hardware testing OpenBSD beat us in several cases of "just booted and worked" on several pieces of hardware that came accross my bench for data recovery. FreeBSD would not even boot, or paniced early in the kernel :-( None of these systems was older than a P4. > Warner -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 16:50:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0DA014E2AAC; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:50:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AE8A70F86; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:50:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1IGorBM003213 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1IGorue003212; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:50:53 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Warner Losh Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? 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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:58:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x1IGwEWM078506; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:58:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <57e29b3835c0e0a35336959212be0b3075e31714.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? From: Ian Lepore To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Warner Losh Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:58:14 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20190218165053.GC2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218165053.GC2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5425C71840 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.98 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.976,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:52.58.0.0/15, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:58:32 -0000 On Mon, 2019-02-18 at 08:50 -0800, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:11:14AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > You do know these constant complaints about people trying to make > > things > > better is demoralizing and counter productive. > > > > You do realize some of the emails are from frustrated users > who are trying to make FreeBSD (see for example libm). > And do you realize that you've trimmed away all the context so that now it looks like Warner was talking to you, when in fact he was replying to Rod? I sure hope that was an accident. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 17:01:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8AC14E388A; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:01:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FC8071D53; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:01:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1IH15uv003342 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:01:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1IH155O003341; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:01:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:01:05 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Warner Losh Cc: FreeBSD Current , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218170105.GD2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9FC8071D53 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.07 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.07)[ip: (0.14), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.20), asn: 73(0.09), country: US(-0.07)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.83)[0.832,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.88)[0.879,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.59)[0.594,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:01:10 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:35:26AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 3:52 PM Steve Kargl < > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > Anyone have insight into what evdev is? There appears to > > be no manual page. When I reboot a system with custom > > kernel, the system is autoloading evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and > > wmt.ko. I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > How does one prevent this autoloading? > > > > > This thread has taken a weird turn, so I went back to the original post. > > When do these things get loaded? Is it when you start up X11? Or is it > being brought in by devmatch? If it is being brought in by x11, there's > likely an x11 config that you'll need to avoid them (but that will reduce > functionality). If it is devmatch, then you can add them to the black list > and have them not load them. > I think it is devmatch (or at least devd.conf related). I have a wireless USB logitch mouse. If I unplug the dongle from its port and reboot, evdev.ko, uhid.ko, and wmt.ko do not get loaded. When I plug in the dongle, the 3 get loaded. I can kldunload wmt and evdev, but as soon as the mouse is moved both are reloaded. ums(4) does not mention any of these devices as a requirement. wmt(4) says it only works for touchscreen. This laptop pre-dates touchscreens, so loading the module is simply wasteful. There is no evdev(4), so can't determine what it is or does. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 17:02:22 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83FE14E3B38; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:02:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE9AF72136; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:02:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1IH2Bfo003386 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1IH2B4v003385; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:02:11 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Ian Lepore Cc: Warner Losh , "Rodney W. Grimes" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218170211.GE2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218165053.GC2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <57e29b3835c0e0a35336959212be0b3075e31714.camel@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <57e29b3835c0e0a35336959212be0b3075e31714.camel@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BE9AF72136 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.13 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[9]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.07)[ip: (0.14), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.20), asn: 73(0.09), country: US(-0.07)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.865,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.89)[0.891,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.61)[0.611,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:02:23 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:58:14AM -0700, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Mon, 2019-02-18 at 08:50 -0800, Steve Kargl wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:11:14AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > You do know these constant complaints about people trying to make > > > things > > > better is demoralizing and counter productive. > > > > > > > You do realize some of the emails are from frustrated users > > who are trying to make FreeBSD (see for example libm). > > > > And do you realize that you've trimmed away all the context so that now > it looks like Warner was talking to you, when in fact he was replying > to Rod? I sure hope that was an accident. > Thanks for your considered input. It has been noted. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 17:06:33 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBCB914E4109 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:06:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from mailhost.netlabit.sk (mailhost.netlabit.sk [84.245.65.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62768727C5 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:06:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from zeta.dino.sk (fw3.dino.sk [84.245.95.254]) (AUTH: LOGIN milan) by mailhost.netlabit.sk with ESMTPA; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:01:19 +0100 id 00DED213.5C6AE4DF.0000A373 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:01:19 +0100 From: Milan Obuch To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: est on newer CPU Message-ID: <20190218180119.137afd06@zeta.dino.sk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i386-portbld-freebsd10.4) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 62768727C5 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-hackers@dino.sk designates 84.245.65.72 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-hackers@dino.sk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.97 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.75)[-0.748,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dino.sk]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.949,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.03)[0.032,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.dino.sk]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[72.65.245.84.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(0.01)[country: SK(0.03)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16160, ipnet:84.245.64.0/18, country:SK]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:06:33 -0000 Hi, I have currently installed FreeBSD on HP gen10 server. With an exception of HP RAID controller, needs to be switched to SATA mode, everything went well (OK, I did some errors so it was a bit of trials-errors but basically no problem). Now I found there is not working powerd - in dmesg est: CPU supports Enhanced Speedstep, but is not recognized. est: cpu_vendor GenuineIntel, msr 20b600002500 device_attach: est0 attach returned 6 CPU is CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Gold G5400 CPU @ 3.70GHz (3696.18-MHz K8-class CPU) Actual system version is 12.0-STABLE FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE r344230 Is there something I can do to get est recognize this CPU and get working powerd? Regards, Milan From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 17:24:23 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD1314E507E; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:24:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [140.82.23.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3620373B0E; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:24:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from duke.gem.co (cpe-23-243-162-239.socal.res.rr.com [23.243.162.239]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 53ed8881 TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:17:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Warner Losh Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Pete Wright Message-ID: <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:17:37 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3620373B0E X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pete@nomadlogic.org designates 140.82.23.70 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@nomadlogic.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[239.162.243.23.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.965,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[9]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.50)[ip: (-8.86), ipnet: 140.82.16.0/21(-4.43), asn: 20473(0.84), country: US(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:140.82.16.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:25:40 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:24:23 -0000 On 2/18/19 8:50 AM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W. Grimes < >> >> I don't know. I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything newer >> than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the old way >> is broken and doesn't work. > But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that 5 year > old hardware that are totally happy with the intree DRM2 that is in stable/12, > and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with thete a > "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit). I know that there is wip > to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start changing > the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right. Port > up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code from > base would be a much more appropriate path. > > I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > simply on the "5 year old" basis. Not everyone, and infact few now > a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware, > giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5 > years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low. I've put a lot of effort helping test and document how to get a usable desktop environment on a modern laptop.  there were two issues which motivated me to do this: 1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online were using macOS as their primary desktop environment.  when comparing this to the OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it did explain the stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem.  people seemed afraid to touch things due the brittle nature of its hardware support. 2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty. fortunately there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - but they were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless from a FreeBSD perspective. after trying to get traction to update the in-tree drm subsystem i was lucky enough to sync up with the graphics team which was working on syncing things up with modern hardware support.  because of that i'm now able to get my small startup pretty much all on board with FreeBSD.  i use it on my workstations as well as on or server infrastructure (physical and AWS).  i would consider this a success for our community as it's opened up the eyes to a whole new generation of devs to FreeBSD. one thing missing from all of these arguments is real data.  how many people are on haswell era hardware?  i can tell from my experience the past several years the number of people who have post-haswell gear seem to be more numerous, or at least more vocal (and frankly easier to work with while squashing bugs). i can also say that personally it would be great to improve support for systems requiring drm2 - but that gear is hard to come by, so we are really dependent on helpful collaboration from those who are being effected. -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 17:44:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C2B14E5B2A; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:44:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [140.82.23.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E630774CBD; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:44:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from duke.gem.co (cpe-23-243-162-239.socal.res.rr.com [23.243.162.239]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 94afe598 TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:44:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: Ian Lepore , sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <4135B088-DF13-4867-ABF4-5659D47C8997@yahoo.com> <20190218002455.GA98130@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <221bcaeb995b085058513323980315b68cd3190f.camel@freebsd.org> From: Pete Wright Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:44:43 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <221bcaeb995b085058513323980315b68cd3190f.camel@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E630774CBD X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pete@nomadlogic.org designates 140.82.23.70 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@nomadlogic.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.76 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[239.162.243.23.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.963,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.49)[ip: (-8.77), ipnet: 140.82.16.0/21(-4.39), asn: 20473(0.81), country: US(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:140.82.16.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:42:37 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:44:47 -0000 On 2/17/19 6:48 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > > That manpage you found online is in section 4x. It probably gets > installed along with the xf86-input-evdev package. yes - unfortunately that seems to be the only form of man page that exists on the linux side as well.  did a quick search through the linux source and there is unsurprisingly a lack of coherent documentation for the evdev driver there (there is plenty online - wikipedia is a decent starting place). getting a man page is a pretty high priority and should hopefully get sorted out before 12.1-RELEASE is ready...so the system works? lol -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 18:13:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5261914E6A7D; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:13:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C79475E94; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:13:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1II4Cot065977 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 19:04:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x1II46HT065974; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 19:04:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 19:04:06 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Pete Wright cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Warner Losh , Baptiste Daroussin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? In-Reply-To: <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0C79475E94 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[puchar.net]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.877,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-3.56)[ip: (-9.41), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.70), asn: 43476(-3.76), country: PL(0.05)] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 20:03:26 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:13:56 -0000 > motivated me to do this: > > 1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online were using > macOS as their primary desktop environment.  when comparing this to the > OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it did explain the > stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem.  people seemed afraid to touch > things due the brittle nature of its hardware support. > > 2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty. fortunately > there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - but they > were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless from a > FreeBSD perspective. I've bought recently (like half year ago) cheapest laptop available. Everything supported with FreeBSD out of the box, except little problem with sound but dev.hdac.0.polling=1 made it work. What a problem? Even lowest end today computer is really high end for normal programs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 22:54:12 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0384114EE7B1; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [18.222.6.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0750B89AE8; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (unknown [18.188.142.31]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B719C17080; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:09 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:08 +0000 From: Mark Linimon To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Warner Losh , Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0750B89AE8 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.74 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.862,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.27)[ipnet: 18.220.0.0/14(0.06), asn: 16509(-1.34), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[lonesome.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.11)[0.106,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.65)[-0.646,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[11.6.222.18.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.soaustin.net]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[9]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:18.220.0.0/14, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:59:15 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:12 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > simply on the "5 year old" basis. IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural changes that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users on older hardware here. Again all IMHO. disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks say around here) "I have no dog in this hunt". mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 23:04:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E286014EEF9D for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 23:04:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.grem.de (outcast.grem.de [213.239.217.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 59BEB8A238 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 23:04:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 85254 invoked by uid 89); 18 Feb 2019 23:04:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?100.87.89.213?) (mg@grem.de@109.41.194.37) by mail.grem.de with ESMTPA; 18 Feb 2019 23:04:31 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? From: Michael Gmelin X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16D39) In-Reply-To: <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:04:20 +0100 Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Warner Losh , Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <21E2EBA6-F4EE-4608-B2EA-AF731F892583@freebsd.org> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> To: Mark Linimon X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 59BEB8A238 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:213.239.192.0/18, country:DE] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 23:44:58 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 23:04:39 -0000 > On 18. Feb 2019, at 23:54, Mark Linimon wrote: >=20 >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things >> simply on the "5 year old" basis. >=20 > IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external > projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural changes > that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. >=20 > If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating > POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already > thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. >=20 > w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and > further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users > on older hardware here. >=20 > Again all IMHO. >=20 > disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks > say around here) I=E2=80=99m very happy (and grateful) that 2018 was the first year in over a= decade I was able to run FreeBSD on a state of the art laptop with all the f= eatures that are essential to me working - which included decent touchpad su= pport provided through evdev+libinput. -m From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 00:33:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0FD14F160B for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:33:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x844.google.com (mail-qt1-x844.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::844]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CCE98D2BA for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:33:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x844.google.com with SMTP id p48so21306403qtk.2 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:33:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XNriMNmY7bi/kBS+kas7Kkgv1qO/55KEF73G1HiTtyg=; b=JkLHnBT/ZyLTpcX+4H5hJ3hLCECUWlmaP58AUOtS/GweJ2ePx9J2/9BTGo0P5QacVZ Uzn16lzpcyLKZNaQ1Kp9dr1DRxZScw1kTqiD6/onqCN9O51FSgSI5S2IJC/llsYlHG1c qHWLhVkyxyCPqDnymwlrH660YSGrxoj1lkW1oQJHSm/QEAKRSN1QCtjNTIZbqDu0RRIz XH7dcC9YJQhW8YZuRi3sTpdEgvNzUMm+xoqWaKdz+EWFX5kHVUp7WQqUDTIiYAHiZFjP WLmK6Bj8ZI/ycY1RY9LWFUtLloUz1exDr7dzo0SuFS+mtnPGppFgutqXl4f4Fz6GMosV mZAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XNriMNmY7bi/kBS+kas7Kkgv1qO/55KEF73G1HiTtyg=; b=iUW0NjzdoPiK7rvawsl5NDT5yj2QWaFFp8D3A1ys+Rn+pg9dsshJCdcv5iDUKCnOQs W+F3PKElE8cB9/D5591EfeO/u/rJ2FLifZCypaDbRAzgi3GNTWTZlveQW78fpwgFHzL4 +JR6eCnU6H+7YBnjHSqyBLtDgjQ/Tp0xQs1G0VHADqCB6y8KTgngzM05fp/TdwHme368 xmG/alpA724Laa+GueKetqtKVtUwzzgeFiYGDRSjK9zKyEIpS+oyu2HffxLZPe2UTLBl LPGZm/rpyt4gA/5zqX2HDJf/IomiX28p97XIA1hBg1aPa4+KGz68z0RuHKioFc4KErQN qaLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuaXIkbjknLnkt8PhYibUm20wkgIenW/DeJLclLU2WFQNaoJv5S3 HxdJ2tSZbikDNadm6yw/MXbdtbD7aoOQg2h6sv5Hn6S0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbNifbgLzLv2MfdceKpaW2riLgI/1HQe8RbndvLXH69fyu1k4Bo4uFU3/hmp9US2U9DG69jTf8FwwfPLd4VOfY= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:35f8:: with SMTP id l53mr21029504qtb.15.1550536412606; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:33:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:33:21 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CCE98D2BA X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=JkLHnBT/ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.09 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.23)[-0.234,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.23)[0.231,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.06)[ip: (4.32), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.83)[-0.833,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:33:34 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:50 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W. Grimes < > > freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:12:24AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > > On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > > > > > > > On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev > wrote: > > > > > > >> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > > > > >>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > > > > > > >> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your > input > > > events > > > > > > >> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to > create > > > > > > > pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > > > > > > >> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel > config > > > should > > > > > > >> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, > as > > > well > > > > > > > as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay > > > Sievers > > > > > > > mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. > They do > > > > > > > not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to > clean up > > > the > > > > > > > mess they create. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that > Wayland > > > fad... > > > > > > > > > > > > EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to > improve > > > > > > input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means > that a > > > lot > > > > > > of input devices stop working, or work much worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve > the > > > > > > FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new > > > users, > > > > > > and make current users use FreeBSD more. > > > > > > > > > > Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, > > > > > telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working > > > > > because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, > > > > > oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier > > > > > to use graphical stuff this way. > > > > > > > > > > These seem to be conflicting stories. > > > > > > > > > You are missing the point, one does not evolve as fast as the other, > > > meaning > > > > one can be maintained within usual freebsd lifecycle, the other > cannot > > > or it > > > > becomes very painful. > > > > > > So to ditch our 5 years support model, kick the code out of the tree > and > > > make the users suffer? The support model is suppose to be under > review, > > > and IMHO, if kicking functional code out of the base system is to make > > > it possible to meet some support model we should defanitly take a very > > > close look at that issue. > > > > > > The code has simply gone from being in base to a few git repositories > > > which are probably going to rot every time a breaking ABI change occurs > > > and we wend up with un happy users, un happy developers and bugmisters > > > who have to close bogus bug reports. > > > > > > Have we really moved the state of the art forward by this action, > simply > > > in the name of "we could not suppor that code?" > > > > > > > I don't know. I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything newer > > than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the old way > > is broken and doesn't work. > > But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that 5 year > old hardware that are totally happy with the in tree DRM2 that is in > stable/12, > and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with the > "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit). First off, current is current. Second, they have two different drm modules to choose from. The drm-legacy stuff was broken by a commit to base, but even if it had been in base, and connected to the build, it would have been broken. kib would have fixed the compile issue (which we did fix in github almost as soon as it happend). However, the semantic issue he wouldn't have seen because he wouldn't have actually tested the setup that's broken because he doesn't have it. So please stop saying it does work. It does not work. It was silently broken by kib's changes. The compile issue is a red herring. You'd be fighting the same issue in current if it was connected to the build. It's literally the same code. > I know that there is wip > to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start changing > the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right. Port > up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code from > base would be a much more appropriate path. > > I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > simply on the "5 year old" basis. Not everyone, and infact few now > a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware, > giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5 > years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low No you are purposely mischaracterizing what's going on here. Nobody is being dismissive of 5 year old hardware. You are mischaracterizing what I'm saying. Please stop. What I'm being dismissive about is that drm2 only supports 5 year old hardware. Not because the hardware is broken, but because the model we used to keep in the tree is broken. Newer hardware just isn't supported at all by it. That's the problem we're trying to fix. drm2 only supporting old hardware is a bigger problem. Read another way, our support model is so broken that we can't support anything newer than 5 year old hardware in drm2. It's our inability to move faster in base that I'm dissing here, not the hardware. We're transitioning to a newer / better model. There are bumps along the way. ne of the long standing features of running a BSD is that it could > stretch very good life out of hardware, and imho it would be in our > best interest to try and keep that. And we do in most aspects, > though recently in some hardware testing OpenBSD beat us in several > cases of "just booted and worked" on several pieces of hardware > that came accross my bench for data recovery. FreeBSD would not > even boot, or paniced early in the kernel :-( None of these systems > was older than a P4. > If you can't handle the bumpiness of -current, you can run stable/12. You can also run any of the 64-bit hardware. It all still works. 32-bit laptops haven't been mainstream in even longer, so none of the developers have them. They are kinda hard to come by, so things don't get tested. When things aren't tested, other changes in the system break them. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 00:38:05 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D206914F19F9 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:38:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 998028D7A0 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:38:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id b8so21248459qtr.9 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:38:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=W+gVelf03l7sawq+hkQ65zcvFhaH63dWKP8Jp1LA1Tw=; b=cXlqfFjF0ZGTGzQzGhBW4cENOah/qk2517U4QbAizzug1bowZAnxDo6F4kwGrXJpHl d3x8iyYPLcqflJ/iKsquA8EzhhH93JNNLwNlmQB60DHbYojdYRfzAkGrIoRK8pPuX8oK TztDxDUpMuFtfR+NOToqo0s6OEs3aiKxn1XTltUwoMkzptCWP8kUDYm+VlPlQ8WY5OR1 Zyk5ueDjIzMintF4HlZ0UcN3n7cMKRhDy52LA+LemHwK+f+08MJQfBdOAgvidsvvtxXZ ww06jMgRdBwpfzmR5Vu337gZXyYWGPO7zfcjM9KY0CYhLUCY0lKEdDj5Q9WvxKvRk2BK F0sw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W+gVelf03l7sawq+hkQ65zcvFhaH63dWKP8Jp1LA1Tw=; b=qaZ2IzyFBRRs9thWlkmZHfKmbw5TsUlV/ICZLbDDm+AwmVuey1mgLFwpzQ47KeyRjb 5t918QfDO7NBVyvQeU6iJQfGlRWkROSS14GVAkRUURwH/brAFt8TG1orakIW3mHw63TK kvAu/631UNc77U3Dm3CdDAJEo+vwd+tMHn2CF7EouaSO3ZsPIHPv+sfE46VY4hIHiU5j tPhdEr0teozNgttf8nm6rohdXuBILNYmMkuV0B5IMG8H402J88z4hU4S4JpDZPjUEXVl l6Y1GF2LM9MmJG4ukOdjtGy9XZuGB/DW9FlJPpvJyhVCStGTqU9gZUl7MCXBocIPxbbJ 3OPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAua11EAjLvH1qqQIptJzMvHrpcx9mXwZrea1k7qLR1IeztvqsKBx hPNF5Y4Prs4SaZ7I2b8uX9+/nzOZQw6vT6GDumVFjg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbZO07FK+d5ApAaYeA3gLxy0Rf/xCAhxFH2/UQjtpvv/Z4PQzaDvnNQt9Tuay7t6AQdm9VN6krBAkx/5yPChsc= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:b68a:: with SMTP id u10mr19259913qvd.57.1550536683121; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:38:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218165053.GC2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190218165053.GC2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:37:52 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: Steve Kargl Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 998028D7A0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=cXlqfFjF X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.46 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.709,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.74)[ip: (-9.08), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:38:05 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:50 AM Steve Kargl < sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:11:14AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > You do know these constant complaints about people trying to make things > > better is demoralizing and counter productive. > > > > You do realize some of the emails are from frustrated users > who are trying to make FreeBSD (see for example libm). > Yes. I get that. My frustration isn't with you, or your questions. I get why you want to run -current. I'm sorry it's being painful for you. Sometimes, -current is like that. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 01:12:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0167214F345F for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:12:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amshafer64@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6D428F2A7 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:12:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amshafer64@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id p25so21098218qtb.3 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:12:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=dst250wxz11f8W3fyKPiTbhDo/FW2ZZbumMK+2LeK4I=; b=kwFykdXOL9eMUjBJY1lAJhXjAmcHSiPQ+rSuOFYBmavWQAPPtFV6lt45alSpeZAR7N WVL2FIUxc6EuxP7blM/Pg/6tHDQbSdOXhQBC325QeLfbX/poMJO1oiXAa7BdGccs2/7Z 15n23biEMOCE1+MyKKidRhRYfKS76OaXWQXzIeGyGN6drybMTFO6bBye4Zdw4AtBkS2G F9wyL/vJiwqi2DzsA0ozy3jwPEIbNG2nqw8PdcnXqrh5hwWaaf8/uJXfz7vfRnCs+07D 525cI/a68FEuAineebuiGfrD5BfDnAlC4FJK2gXDko9SG5aCavor3y0qUm6PSZtTMsZz P22Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=dst250wxz11f8W3fyKPiTbhDo/FW2ZZbumMK+2LeK4I=; b=nWxs97YK6aurwdOAz1UzBKMpFU+pgW1fgLuBa79/dqf0MLbHYUxTLR/Elnmd/JMeQp npPSkx64ZMGa1LCulPCRHmDjklUL4i4/b32+CawWfGqYf6Gg30v61Ly9P9Ny9dDU0uwJ vmfCmEpmIrkM5a7BpFV5Lgy++ho1rBn4+CWiIzICUi7RYTTa9+ZJPOw+rz4+8nEUODpp PMa2mNRIvaPNWiV7N86w56cGu07L3whCER0hLLmDDkguxmgdd22+IiZhRNBSX3CeEkAM oH8aYCbXWgnx0LR3hnLDWKN9LFhoZf6VxCSHKKL5MDav1ny5h+tpTKGi4VCmqQNbteTp O6qw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZMEUB4s5cPNicUSKnOTfybuG1LaB6jBQ52deuAwyet8tJllgD4 Eb9R/nNuYy78c4oatF5vq1ujlWFh X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZMe9E8XfsEP6l/RyVRH11B0vIU48+Eew6FPxbs/IZlek14jxRgcqDsyP9DDrV2J+yPWUVjGA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2d0b:: with SMTP id n11mr20208852qta.143.1550538774878; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:12:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([178.128.156.9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e21sm9046737qkj.90.2019.02.18.17.12.53 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) From: Austin Shafer To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: vm_page_t's do not appear initialized Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:12:52 -0500 Message-ID: <86lg2cz4pn.fsf@triplebuff.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C6D428F2A7 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=kwFykdXO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of amshafer64@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::831 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=amshafer64@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DATE_IN_FUTURE(4.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.966,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.71)[ip: (-8.89), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:12:57 -0000 Hi freebsd-hackers, While trying to write a DRM buffer page fault handler, I've run into an issue where vm_page_t structs appear to be uninitialized and contain random data. Most of These "random" fields in the structures remain the same after rebooting, which makes me think that I have missed something and am misinterpreting the fields. After a little over a week reading through source code and trying different things, I wanted to see if anyone had any insight that could help me learn whats going on. Thanks in advance! (For context, here is the project this is from) https://github.com/aritger/eglstreams-kms-example/issues/7 I have more verbose examples below, but some quick examples of what I'm seeing are: - vm_page_t->phys_addr does not match expected - vm_page_t->flags has values not in the PG_* macros - same for busy_lock and other entries - kgdb can't read memory at vm_page_t->object - etc... It looks like vm_page_init_page was not called on these vm_page_t's I am interacting with, but I can't seem to figure out why that would not be the case? I've also booted into single user mode so I can look at things before any graphics drivers can mess with them, but the pages still look the same. While writing the fault handler I've been using the i915kms driver's handler as a reference, and I've included page structs from an intel laptop as an example of what I expected to see. _____________________________________________________________________ Here is an example of a vm_page_t I get for the start of device memory on an NVIDIA 1070: _____________________________________________________________________ # uname -a FreeBSD wolfgang 12.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE #5 r343025M: Sun Feb 10 14:29:01 EST 2019 ashafer@wolfgang:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/GENERIC amd64 ---------------- pciconf -lbv: ... vgapci0@pci0:1:0:0: class=0x030000 card=0x33011462 chip=0x1b8110de rev=0xa1 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'NVIDIA Corporation' device = 'GP104 [GeForce GTX 1070]' class = display subclass = VGA bar [10] = type Memory, range 32, base 0xee000000, size 16777216, enabled bar [14] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0xd0000000, size 268435456, enabled bar [1c] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0xe0000000, size 33554432, enabled bar [24] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0xe000, size 128, enabled ... ---------------- /* get the page corresponding device mem */ vm_page_t page = PHYS_TO_VM_PAGE(0xd0000000) <--- page == 0xfffff802266a5980 ---------------- (kgdb) p/x *(vm_page_t)0xfffff802266a5980 $1 = {plinks = {q = {tqe_next = 0x2c43b579e62bf7ae, tqe_prev = 0xb47eac47a195af64}, s = {ss = { sle_next = 0x2c43b579e62bf7ae}, pv = 0xb47eac47a195af64}, memguard = { p = 0x2c43b579e62bf7ae, v = 0xb47eac47a195af64}}, listq = { tqe_next = 0x6d4683b13bdc1486, tqe_prev = 0x3666c2179bcddb1d}, object = 0xff2e12d8cc36710b, pindex = 0xb5bd170e69b840a2, phys_addr = 0xaad51419a796c44d, md = {pv_list = {tqh_first = 0x38d208abcf6951ec, tqh_last = 0x850ca846e9f2d9f3}, pv_gen = 0xf277ff0c, pat_mode = 0x564e1542}, wire_count = 0xc810bbe0, busy_lock = 0x4ee4b98f, hold_count = 0xbcda, flags = 0x3f53, aflags = 0x37, oflags = 0x66, queue = 0xa, psind = 0xc1, segind = 0x23, order = 0xb7, pool = 0x12, act_count = 0x9c, valid = 0x22, dirty = 0x71} ---------------- just in case this is related... I think vm_phys_segs drives which pages get initialized during system boot? ---------------- (kgdb) p/x vm_phys_segs $2 = {{start = 0x10000, end = 0x6f000, first_page = 0xfffff80443776000, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057670}, {start = 0x70000, end = 0x87000, first_page = 0xfffff80443778700, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057670}, { start = 0x100000, end = 0x1000000, first_page = 0xfffff8044377c180, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057670}, {start = 0x1000000, end = 0x2c6b000, first_page = 0xfffff804437dd980, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, { start = 0x2c73000, end = 0x2cab000, first_page = 0xfffff80443896838, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, {start = 0x2e00000, end = 0x96c80000, first_page = 0xfffff804438a0980, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, { start = 0x98083000, end = 0x9c68f000, first_page = 0xfffff80447538eb8, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, {start = 0x9cfff000, end = 0x9d000000, first_page = 0xfffff8044773d918, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, { start = 0x100000000, end = 0x44360f000, first_page = 0xfffff80449f75980, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, {start = 0x100000000, end = 0x44360f000, first_page = 0xfffff80449f75980, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, { start = 0x0, end = 0x0, first_page = 0x0, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0x0} } _____________________________________________________________________ EXPECTED: This is what the vm_page_t for device memory on a intel laptop (Different computer, this looks like what I should be getting) _____________________________________________________________________ pciconf -lbv: ... vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0: class=0x030000 card=0xfa121179 chip=0x04168086 rev=0x06 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller' class = display subclass = VGA bar [10] = type Memory, range 64, base 0xb0000000, size 4194304, enabled bar [18] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0xa0000000, size 268435456, enabled bar [20] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x4000, size 64, enabled ... ---------------- vm_page_t page = PHYS_TO_VM_PAGE(0xa0000000) <--- page == ---------------- (kgdb) p/x *(vm_page_t)0xfffff80447875980 $1 = {plinks = {q = {tqe_next = 0x0, tqe_prev = 0x0}, s = {ss = {sle_next = 0x0}, pv = 0x0}, memguard = {p = 0x0, v = 0x0}}, listq = {tqe_next = 0x0, tqe_prev = 0x0}, object = 0x0, pindex = 0x0, phys_addr = 0xa0000000, md = {pv_list = {tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0xfffff804478759b8}, pv_gen = 0x0, pat_mode = 0x1}, wire_count = 0x1, busy_lock = 0x1, hold_count = 0x0, flags = 0x4, aflags = 0x0, oflags = 0x0, queue = 0xff, psind = 0x0, segind = 0x0, order = 0x0, pool = 0x0, act_count = 0x0, valid = 0x0, dirty = 0x0} _____________________________________________________________________ Again I'm not really sure what I'm running into. I've had to try to learn the FreeBSD vm system while working on this, so I'm sorry if I missed anything obvious to those who have more experience. I'm more than happy to provide any information or test anything and I'd appreciate any pointers to what can explain this. Thank you so much for your time! Austin Shafer From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 01:26:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DBC314F51E0 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:26:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amshafer64@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E34690A62 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amshafer64@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id x9so11149579qkf.0 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:26:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=Z6OmI1ZUW4CHB+dDTq6PdLhxc8UEt9O5q7VQLCgQtz8=; b=S6f7GyZ/RcOJWXVujPk0N3sxRk3ejfcs8KkjGq1LeheK+CylyWG7fwnJm9d6SHKXVR u5AYrD0vFNJYa0lkLOOkD7aemCMcJ4ZuSaXtyYeY3LdWuWqIL9+Tpzy9OOM7a16yFfk1 o4QOpufY6QwFpBYmRdAuwm3nFTFy78IfE1+UfqW7MSnTU230BeuXsZz7xwQIU85084JE 9pw7hY4IpXooa1x48iSyneGfodSycOe69k9auF4lSnmlYjRCVmjmjZT5Ez05Z4NZn83+ +Rxu1QkwAD8HrU78E1ur1pCdkeCW6zl8OsXsL1i3lVgTGYexhyOjq0LTpDSdgS4JKYGs v5Qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=Z6OmI1ZUW4CHB+dDTq6PdLhxc8UEt9O5q7VQLCgQtz8=; b=OlSdx/nMA4op3tFBD6xoEN0P9JGbQ1J7sAjlpQnrwRbYLgKWa+xe5M4dzH0bbtxRCD QejXsfw4vlnTeRJNtx4IkL2tY5zylFLYKpesfxm9BVa5sk46ai6EA/DSOz22mXeMHDew FAxCmYPa2gd7Z0H7q8pjA/hslfQGOqfpQjSSDZk9DxXAo9c4K6mAoIt7J0nhBTi/DHwq fXW0jozCA/99zRgwo1W7xRc0XLif9JV1P85G7td1emh/04TNrJhrJbNwnVgDOznqVnU7 dfZdNpUf2MHBtpBRZwekCQoYhiXB7/ueksikLh+Kn89RDy3YgJZ0dHhjoMwHcaix/Str 2SPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYEkKzGOTyxIsycDiSAvJN/ljmoN3pyQZ5a3OLKUUUmM9xhUJEN oexWeIX5Gv3fqyAcmmJu2oeYQ3JW X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IahuPsfZ6K8oKxqM+aJEy+8sxdONlsdaslsxwXm7p+3hNi7by+QzRxg96IsdzqxR8n+vg2jAA== X-Received: by 2002:a37:62ce:: with SMTP id w197mr18415039qkb.108.1550539566644; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:26:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([178.128.156.9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t55sm9263388qtt.57.2019.02.18.17.26.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:26:05 -0800 (PST) From: Austin Shafer To: Simon Ser Cc: "freebsd-hackers\@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Unattended FreeBSD installation In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:26:04 -0500 Message-ID: <8636ok2t1f.fsf@triplebuff.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2E34690A62 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=S6f7GyZ/; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of amshafer64@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::734 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=amshafer64@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.63 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DATE_IN_FUTURE(4.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.936,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.68)[ip: (-8.76), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:26:08 -0000 Hi Simon, While I know this isn't exactly what your initial post was looking for, I wrote a similar script a short while ago that would make custom iso images (including unattended installs). I've linked it below in case you (or anyone else) might find it useful. https://github.com/ashaferian/packmule - Austin Shafer From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 09:34:28 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6156B14E88E1; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:34:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com (mail-ot1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E96376310; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id c18so11503519otl.13; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:34:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=eyesO+MglHEQYukJIesD5xIqYfcV/NXO5Pp0pBRDok8=; b=nJGMb7+XKIQSgYZ/msQQULL3gLyMGc4zxNI2G5Dz9D6cDBs2IgMSvjYa8+i/NvLSPS hQvne1rQ0qnpJr7JTohcHBMf93O0s/WGcDE3tgYgmIiVHD8Z1XNFVJqGrT5dUhTe+Ir/ uEGBXf7J1519qccqX1SqU5RXInI61qWtrN3/DC1sCBg7Fhjh6rk/LX7kOdwU+Kr4/NCT QawqEjfAOBatOmkz6kRIpk+DvxbN9ix/fYOHbCUGIxUgEg1g0+m5MKqVW7uj+S3jbvm7 jFnzITAqjmqWYqtqPbnS1MlgZzPQHfqN5q4ileg8rkGOc92BJr3hNv4VhZaO9pbBEJ79 gFBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=eyesO+MglHEQYukJIesD5xIqYfcV/NXO5Pp0pBRDok8=; b=RN7EhzpTO9UN4fQokmdGWHW/ezBwvsIvEbEV0Ca8NIJMyRKa9OGaTvrGIFD/Zh3Fnl XJJN0HBbEl9y3XI/99IhS7gS0tM2Thfsar9Ecw1qrmome141YF+ABjHQON+dPSvzsBap FDSsPzsJgaUUM0RIlKblGpaAgRP7g9GLXo/XoSoywn6jpAD5/G4tDuipIqRNyqf02HtI ZY68DlnEqlR641uY2bU01TLnW+rk9RSggPLf9MmmKg4K+5JXuF8Dp5tOquvKgoLYzjEy eaY+rZZyr875uDw6DFD/7xGJkk5tExtny4Egql0RPMsL3CnYphLSlE2tPKXKxKUdg16M t6xg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZv+4GYSZQXdvD4RcmEGwc3ThoRZMG30l3UDRnOEpnLE8loZlb2 ZZf7UopdBqTqTyLtjSHWl9Dx0YGFmQU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYzv3tqSurhxk5rrwdeE0O1o3qgU/G2fPBujVtihFTPwgXmbpMwTn2fSgw1YN2zJcQpKQjtrg== X-Received: by 2002:aca:c691:: with SMTP id w139mr1882225oif.82.1550568865812; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.33] ([81.174.250.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y5sm6884499oix.38.2019.02.19.01.34.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:34:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: Warner Losh , Steve Kargl Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current , owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218165053.GC2912@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Johannes Lundberg Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=johalun0@gmail.com; keydata= mQINBFxFmoIBEADoFO5jY+Fmsg44KiZjufEmpEf4kt7nCOfxNG9SruWpoXUaq0B296F+fIZC hNZqv1v7lGTsfoWRusxJmLd5CQgHHxEyruZbbPpNsQ/JKoDY3GGmrmWfN/SX3y0t0kdB9HsW mJcvZhK7we52f4gxddIVBS9nQoVoONX+hzXf8zwOAa0ik0EPgEwpIKS4j9lLq4bU+mqVKdRR bPeDujEA/qbsCKhaFJkPzXZtzEe6srq4RK1doEztwnKz02b+8gs642TRkWDQeTRZputrAaoN Un4R76A1QpXWyrFG1dQu48IGHi3KbkrvNyq6R1aUBIA0+CG1npIbxmc2mtSjoyvdipmDRbBD +mhECIxmYfBT6818zuj91XjrfOyfVdV2BryBvqFkJLkS3N3QElBIiVdDgdrqiNFWiOlDMxNI tdP16oQBNo8IB27/0YHpnQEw1MafZv5gG5DO0zLtLy88ASAfL7BYf90JP19rT4JIwnxsXxyv kEJnzhsXf0QVObEiAu1MqeFyWfZ8PpunmvEmJ0VChOL+v/kIx1E9cxhhzMZhqiMXfyM4zx2+ BF1FwAwJYPuJLu2B3L0uVBu+M1YvSOmKAbXPDP8PsqPjgSBTYI51MUjuuxN6jSsHDuK6G5k4 pUWR8axa+wafhd6Vz8zVwdTJZ9LdxgLLVg0kprBgccPHhPAZVQARAQABtCZKb2hhbm5lcyBM dW5kYmVyZyA8am9oYWx1bjBAZ21haWwuY29tPokCVAQTAQgAPhYhBIl1Pb3+hI60ivmRSULn yG4BGvSeBQJcRZqCAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEELnyG4B GvSe9O0P/RzeQAu1R37RlONZTXNn+qIAHvHbZEhzrCibzaZnwYdC31wGrYmXNDyiQIqOngFf QJuufQtH/+95OESJsjR+42L/pNfFdaEWxiI003qE7uCMzLK5UWUXd/5d5vYY0CaPyNCj1tyM ZIq7x4CaR3QLTh/Fw4zMUI/ZPH2S5SxVFGv0ZZFAdNYILD3qCkAS/9HmXsqufBWbfutA8TTf wyJfywmvf7ENjlZ4QOjb242ZY9NndqbmqTgWVAws+PN5e9AT8HkadscCTCSkYnxJyYG2El27 DpAAkekYplb/C0j82KSz2fy9RgwD+tTqt88DJOeFbIbrYt44u7KLHpzaZeqyUtn0reHCkE0W lnKH2kXXbuswFB4sONxI/J5+qSmOsAm5ItO3voyjm/swpmFR1yBlxo4th26gbO5NfBOK9YsY zHKgiRDv6ZdnHo+htphRxcCDHsFPzkQe5jouI25dvMZYl1LaTS/09lwYVwVIB2SFmMtFZ7rB N4NBSzPlpsg+g4dJNqiw6Rfa2Q/wUv+MzTJgLtHjDccXlpm33Nc09UytHFtNn26PO/zrM39r TwzdLu1mg0x2WWEWTIqe4CaczQU9SIg49BSyJNoPSZx3V7nMhTKbOeQKR5aV3dXI66aENw86 pa1tipuUKCPmope/GTJatUgPiD3JkyiD+7c1zQX2UAGmuQINBFxFmoIBEACb55RAkM59huAx 4Ddd8WBjsw25qf7rzxeRKAQ7or/8LvJBYQDPXZy0RhkRiu+P+MjxwGb6HVh+LDyAYDn9d8Mt ZqCP/dOGNcl7pkb6IhfRc3i5neckXCYfbm0cigiX9JkqZSt3KT96zbjCxsFZKyIyEFsMl46q 7wKWK5Irj3zxV/Z51JNTJyMLcIRWhY8G6qlMNFgZkz2Hv63w6BRekKVImOmOdThLAscy5ybq 2CIUeAwPG7lMYG9rgcPdn3tMPeWlLmUmi5pSwOQ3AKg3xFrW3WfegjRHdqpeuXoeTjYPPCW4 gyl59uv6E12a6eivItCxj67vlBXgOr4um+zoPyXG/WfidIFtWaEgyBrlGR1Klk7SIcqjEHUA FdiM+PweY4opHXXKn60NOZCqBJ59K43drOQgRouz8E2T3yEoYg40xAfY3lhJV/Vx5+kSTjmy sT2xotlPn/GzfaAEvNuJDK+Mec3LvfbbDoOWFolNyEvoMQqF5Q3A8eGqYsoVGBPxyzNvF2iY LkymxiXpgrSN0Q/LOK7pFlWwbVC8Z6g5I0J9ecgD55dGLoX2luLir787XX/JxGffzbRnP9NE ifenJGrQmx4CyEaz/CHQqSbROm5Uo/YFUX9J7OfUO4mtu90j773j32I3psey/Fz3EC/A2PHv Ghb0KsWYpS3Pj5TV1gGyswARAQABiQI8BBgBCAAmFiEEiXU9vf6EjrSK+ZFJQufIbgEa9J4F AlxFmoICGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQQufIbgEa9J7qOQ//YG/4e69YTSjtiYLXzBI8tRU2Sx+NFByx zx+C/r0EBThLtgRwCqEUZRB7iIDSO8aZ0Qa3vwWRohlD1tn/LBdDFfMmuQkNVdLIrjBoGBB9 B5xHdZJ9xnTZEwpTtk6IWolT4j+8rpGemGKKiFo3X6l02On4Qb4iM7h6rcDb76mfwooNYzB3 8PPcLvyOWb/9iCXAb5N7doo5zmOl15DVwvIF04eXU0q1FFj/iS1zNmtZ5Got82O1TQFV+de4 Rb3YA80IZhhhCiHHJqkMKeKQogRqU+UNDBARUBxfUtKsJtQzTQ2JUGwkb6X6bx53FTLP6O9q hDoODVweE1LdB1k1H5Nn+gawPdRMBqj43Y2amK7KEgoTBrwU04CLpKiaAC0S+EcJFfJcwtpK k3F+uTtP/hnhFnWbn8SgRkHKXKWqSCt63NstXhMzAJut1gEzV+CcPNKqa/sFgQaYEvzCS5Kl F/PXj0++f3TIFqT+2ZNNp8Bz8dT7gh8RPPg5oYQiCHH8K1RAmq7gKqmwyg0qgOazHnped+od X4f3qx320JAP6NP9wglDm6eht48NJzb0sffN8z34wrP66oz8oPKtS5CFV0m/384hEg0lmi3W wo2Hno7rA1etTPJX0dI6/GLlQDtNTHvKQ077HQdWVOMQVWC9j7YH7Zr9NjtOvxcNVRX3fxpJ 6CE= X-Tagtoolbar-Keys: D20190219093421241 Message-ID: <050a6adb-8769-2ef9-7859-78df2bd6e0b3@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:34:21 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; 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SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.48)[ip: (-7.77), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:34:28 -0000 On 2/19/19 12:37 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:50 AM Steve Kargl < > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:11:14AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: >>> You do know these constant complaints about people trying to make thi= ngs >>> better is demoralizing and counter productive. >>> >> You do realize some of the emails are from frustrated users >> who are trying to make FreeBSD (see for example libm). >> > Yes. I get that. My frustration isn't with you, or your questions. I ge= t > why you want to run -current. I'm sorry it's being painful for you. > Sometimes, -current is like that. When this happens, there's always vesa and scfb (software rendering) to fall back to so your machine won't be rendered useless. Not saying this should be the norm, but good to know so that your work get minimal interruption. Alternatively, run experimental kernels/worlds in bhyve (what I tend to do when I want everything accessible on the same local machine). > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 09:37:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295AB14E8CA5 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:37:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6392876603 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:37:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1J9bjtq078199 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:37:48 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua x1J9bjtq078199 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1J9bjK2078198; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:37:45 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:37:45 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Austin Shafer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vm_page_t's do not appear initialized Message-ID: <20190219093745.GM2420@kib.kiev.ua> References: <86lg2cz4pn.fsf@triplebuff.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86lg2cz4pn.fsf@triplebuff.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on tom.home X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:37:54 -0000 On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 01:12:52AM -0500, Austin Shafer wrote: > Hi freebsd-hackers, > > While trying to write a DRM buffer page fault handler, I've run into an > issue where vm_page_t structs appear to be uninitialized and contain > random data. Most of These "random" fields in the structures remain the > same after rebooting, which makes me think that I have missed something > and am misinterpreting the fields. After a little over a week reading > through source code and trying different things, I wanted to see > if anyone had any insight that could help me learn whats going on. > > Thanks in advance! > > (For context, here is the project this is from) > https://github.com/aritger/eglstreams-kms-example/issues/7 > > > I have more verbose examples below, but some quick examples of what I'm > seeing are: > - vm_page_t->phys_addr does not match expected > - vm_page_t->flags has values not in the PG_* macros > - same for busy_lock and other entries > - kgdb can't read memory at vm_page_t->object > - etc... > > It looks like vm_page_init_page was not called on these vm_page_t's I am > interacting with, but I can't seem to figure out why that would not be > the case? I've also booted into single user mode so I can look at things > before any graphics drivers can mess with them, but the pages still look > the same. While writing the fault handler I've been using the i915kms > driver's handler as a reference, and I've included page structs from an > intel laptop as an example of what I expected to see. > > _____________________________________________________________________ > Here is an example of a vm_page_t I get for the start of device memory > on an NVIDIA 1070: > _____________________________________________________________________ > > # uname -a > FreeBSD wolfgang 12.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE #5 r343025M: Sun Feb 10 14:29:01 EST 2019 > ashafer@wolfgang:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/GENERIC amd64 > ---------------- > pciconf -lbv: > ... > vgapci0@pci0:1:0:0: class=0x030000 card=0x33011462 chip=0x1b8110de rev=0xa1 hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'NVIDIA Corporation' > device = 'GP104 [GeForce GTX 1070]' > class = display > subclass = VGA > bar [10] = type Memory, range 32, base 0xee000000, size 16777216, enabled > bar [14] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0xd0000000, size 268435456, enabled > bar [1c] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0xe0000000, size 33554432, enabled > bar [24] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0xe000, size 128, enabled > ... > ---------------- > > /* get the page corresponding device mem */ > vm_page_t page = PHYS_TO_VM_PAGE(0xd0000000) <--- page == 0xfffff802266a5980 > > ---------------- > (kgdb) p/x *(vm_page_t)0xfffff802266a5980 > $1 = {plinks = {q = {tqe_next = 0x2c43b579e62bf7ae, tqe_prev = 0xb47eac47a195af64}, s = {ss = { > sle_next = 0x2c43b579e62bf7ae}, pv = 0xb47eac47a195af64}, memguard = { > p = 0x2c43b579e62bf7ae, v = 0xb47eac47a195af64}}, listq = { > tqe_next = 0x6d4683b13bdc1486, tqe_prev = 0x3666c2179bcddb1d}, > object = 0xff2e12d8cc36710b, pindex = 0xb5bd170e69b840a2, phys_addr = 0xaad51419a796c44d, > md = {pv_list = {tqh_first = 0x38d208abcf6951ec, tqh_last = 0x850ca846e9f2d9f3}, > pv_gen = 0xf277ff0c, pat_mode = 0x564e1542}, wire_count = 0xc810bbe0, > busy_lock = 0x4ee4b98f, hold_count = 0xbcda, flags = 0x3f53, aflags = 0x37, oflags = 0x66, > queue = 0xa, psind = 0xc1, segind = 0x23, order = 0xb7, pool = 0x12, act_count = 0x9c, > valid = 0x22, dirty = 0x71} > ---------------- > just in case this is related... I think vm_phys_segs drives which pages get > initialized during system boot? > ---------------- > (kgdb) p/x vm_phys_segs > $2 = {{start = 0x10000, end = 0x6f000, first_page = 0xfffff80443776000, domain = 0x0, > free_queues = 0xffffffff82057670}, {start = 0x70000, end = 0x87000, > first_page = 0xfffff80443778700, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057670}, { > start = 0x100000, end = 0x1000000, first_page = 0xfffff8044377c180, domain = 0x0, > free_queues = 0xffffffff82057670}, {start = 0x1000000, end = 0x2c6b000, > first_page = 0xfffff804437dd980, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, { > start = 0x2c73000, end = 0x2cab000, first_page = 0xfffff80443896838, domain = 0x0, > free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, {start = 0x2e00000, end = 0x96c80000, > first_page = 0xfffff804438a0980, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, { > start = 0x98083000, end = 0x9c68f000, first_page = 0xfffff80447538eb8, domain = 0x0, > free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, {start = 0x9cfff000, end = 0x9d000000, > first_page = 0xfffff8044773d918, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, { > start = 0x100000000, end = 0x44360f000, first_page = 0xfffff80449f75980, domain = 0x0, > free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, {start = 0x100000000, end = 0x44360f000, > first_page = 0xfffff80449f75980, domain = 0x0, free_queues = 0xffffffff82057400}, { > start = 0x0, end = 0x0, first_page = 0x0, domain = 0x0, > free_queues = 0x0} } > > _____________________________________________________________________ > EXPECTED: This is what the vm_page_t for device memory on a intel laptop > (Different computer, this looks like what I should be getting) > _____________________________________________________________________ > pciconf -lbv: > ... > vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0: class=0x030000 card=0xfa121179 chip=0x04168086 rev=0x06 hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'Intel Corporation' > device = '4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller' > class = display > subclass = VGA > bar [10] = type Memory, range 64, base 0xb0000000, size 4194304, enabled > bar [18] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0xa0000000, size 268435456, enabled > bar [20] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x4000, size 64, enabled > ... > ---------------- > vm_page_t page = PHYS_TO_VM_PAGE(0xa0000000) <--- page == > ---------------- > (kgdb) p/x *(vm_page_t)0xfffff80447875980 > $1 = {plinks = {q = {tqe_next = 0x0, tqe_prev = 0x0}, s = {ss = {sle_next = 0x0}, pv = 0x0}, > memguard = {p = 0x0, v = 0x0}}, listq = {tqe_next = 0x0, tqe_prev = 0x0}, object = 0x0, > pindex = 0x0, phys_addr = 0xa0000000, md = {pv_list = {tqh_first = 0x0, > tqh_last = 0xfffff804478759b8}, pv_gen = 0x0, pat_mode = 0x1}, wire_count = 0x1, > busy_lock = 0x1, hold_count = 0x0, flags = 0x4, aflags = 0x0, oflags = 0x0, queue = 0xff, > psind = 0x0, segind = 0x0, order = 0x0, pool = 0x0, act_count = 0x0, valid = 0x0, > dirty = 0x0} > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > Again I'm not really sure what I'm running into. I've had to try to > learn the FreeBSD vm system while working on this, so I'm sorry if I > missed anything obvious to those who have more experience. I'm more than > happy to provide any information or test anything and I'd appreciate any > pointers to what can explain this. > > Thank you so much for your time! > Austin Shafer I do not know exactly what are you doing, but problems with PHYS_TO_VM_PAGE() on the framebuffers pages usually indicate incorrect (or missed) usage of the vm_phys_fictitious_reg_range() KPI. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 10:14:50 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934EE14EAB37; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:14:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com (mail-ot1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7736280106; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:14:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id b3so33254388otp.4; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 02:14:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=+EgTmta24yW6IDADtZH/jTShhz+EPVJEjNAJBSTqs1o=; b=J/alzgS534TJdQU3q9+m4xG8xp7+iinG8zgUcVYkXpGKdhj1DUKvbeU+oLVo7mKJQv /bDyPJ84zPcQzrQ6XkbKaiFUaImO0bs107Js5AVAKopI2BvxBmjiPPCLLLj8DQ/EBItc cgIHLefGSuEWrIgHC5ByQMoT5LtrS7fhd5z6GrWabN07zgxmhKBixX1sPJRuIoCoobVC Cmh1r5kz2iLLVVXeY1FdhlrPOQ4EUC5rVn9vlFll10RusMuQZ2dwkjaSnUNpHHRcoknI XXUaOXOifcBI4sq7cvUfCfoidaRnRPCKQrvLW5qTAwpMbNkfucDUna99wqqD678ojLky VUsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=+EgTmta24yW6IDADtZH/jTShhz+EPVJEjNAJBSTqs1o=; b=myktLBeDC/vrRhBjQu2KXecBEAz5tRQEPRR+MHZDxevcYsACC5PS9IaprqxUn0/bgd CCS9gVujk2y9JBHX5rIysWtdiqzXsMgwB8FJvgMZZ0tho/szHgmTmtkLsMLCHhFUYBOO Pt7eUfJ9Ie5mlltz+gxrDCEHjdBJxZU9Q9z/v4AIcRF6kHywojo/ySLAdfXpxatnU/QI lJ5XZBGausMfgoUyLn7MU4Cx6T/wrvRo6w9xfPdJ0ALFsAe4P3UiKt0vAHaLHh9jUHzr rNNVHkh7s+bLZxK96JFbJQaTFLlLNBEJt2ew2e3VZqcuWPQzCu0Vi1FnfG7XqEuIW4Oi m/mQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuaDrzixSdZTYeXCpr7MXnQYJU4dZ3Kfy6ZM8WZsx6AhvvPr3xCf SWa9eJ/Fq4y7uINe3b3w8Qw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IaaEUSMd0EFV+Q//Jjrh9ZyMhGKAZRLXKAsfNMQvu+5+BiLGcQfn8WVJTDrBV5u1cLk8MDvuQ== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5e8c:: with SMTP id f12mr17760443otl.343.1550571288270; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 02:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.33] ([81.174.250.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r132sm4249463oie.20.2019.02.19.02.14.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 02:14:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: Mark Linimon , "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Warner Losh , Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> From: Johannes Lundberg Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=johalun0@gmail.com; keydata= mQINBFxFmoIBEADoFO5jY+Fmsg44KiZjufEmpEf4kt7nCOfxNG9SruWpoXUaq0B296F+fIZC hNZqv1v7lGTsfoWRusxJmLd5CQgHHxEyruZbbPpNsQ/JKoDY3GGmrmWfN/SX3y0t0kdB9HsW mJcvZhK7we52f4gxddIVBS9nQoVoONX+hzXf8zwOAa0ik0EPgEwpIKS4j9lLq4bU+mqVKdRR bPeDujEA/qbsCKhaFJkPzXZtzEe6srq4RK1doEztwnKz02b+8gs642TRkWDQeTRZputrAaoN Un4R76A1QpXWyrFG1dQu48IGHi3KbkrvNyq6R1aUBIA0+CG1npIbxmc2mtSjoyvdipmDRbBD +mhECIxmYfBT6818zuj91XjrfOyfVdV2BryBvqFkJLkS3N3QElBIiVdDgdrqiNFWiOlDMxNI tdP16oQBNo8IB27/0YHpnQEw1MafZv5gG5DO0zLtLy88ASAfL7BYf90JP19rT4JIwnxsXxyv kEJnzhsXf0QVObEiAu1MqeFyWfZ8PpunmvEmJ0VChOL+v/kIx1E9cxhhzMZhqiMXfyM4zx2+ BF1FwAwJYPuJLu2B3L0uVBu+M1YvSOmKAbXPDP8PsqPjgSBTYI51MUjuuxN6jSsHDuK6G5k4 pUWR8axa+wafhd6Vz8zVwdTJZ9LdxgLLVg0kprBgccPHhPAZVQARAQABtCZKb2hhbm5lcyBM dW5kYmVyZyA8am9oYWx1bjBAZ21haWwuY29tPokCVAQTAQgAPhYhBIl1Pb3+hI60ivmRSULn yG4BGvSeBQJcRZqCAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEELnyG4B GvSe9O0P/RzeQAu1R37RlONZTXNn+qIAHvHbZEhzrCibzaZnwYdC31wGrYmXNDyiQIqOngFf QJuufQtH/+95OESJsjR+42L/pNfFdaEWxiI003qE7uCMzLK5UWUXd/5d5vYY0CaPyNCj1tyM ZIq7x4CaR3QLTh/Fw4zMUI/ZPH2S5SxVFGv0ZZFAdNYILD3qCkAS/9HmXsqufBWbfutA8TTf wyJfywmvf7ENjlZ4QOjb242ZY9NndqbmqTgWVAws+PN5e9AT8HkadscCTCSkYnxJyYG2El27 DpAAkekYplb/C0j82KSz2fy9RgwD+tTqt88DJOeFbIbrYt44u7KLHpzaZeqyUtn0reHCkE0W lnKH2kXXbuswFB4sONxI/J5+qSmOsAm5ItO3voyjm/swpmFR1yBlxo4th26gbO5NfBOK9YsY zHKgiRDv6ZdnHo+htphRxcCDHsFPzkQe5jouI25dvMZYl1LaTS/09lwYVwVIB2SFmMtFZ7rB N4NBSzPlpsg+g4dJNqiw6Rfa2Q/wUv+MzTJgLtHjDccXlpm33Nc09UytHFtNn26PO/zrM39r TwzdLu1mg0x2WWEWTIqe4CaczQU9SIg49BSyJNoPSZx3V7nMhTKbOeQKR5aV3dXI66aENw86 pa1tipuUKCPmope/GTJatUgPiD3JkyiD+7c1zQX2UAGmuQINBFxFmoIBEACb55RAkM59huAx 4Ddd8WBjsw25qf7rzxeRKAQ7or/8LvJBYQDPXZy0RhkRiu+P+MjxwGb6HVh+LDyAYDn9d8Mt ZqCP/dOGNcl7pkb6IhfRc3i5neckXCYfbm0cigiX9JkqZSt3KT96zbjCxsFZKyIyEFsMl46q 7wKWK5Irj3zxV/Z51JNTJyMLcIRWhY8G6qlMNFgZkz2Hv63w6BRekKVImOmOdThLAscy5ybq 2CIUeAwPG7lMYG9rgcPdn3tMPeWlLmUmi5pSwOQ3AKg3xFrW3WfegjRHdqpeuXoeTjYPPCW4 gyl59uv6E12a6eivItCxj67vlBXgOr4um+zoPyXG/WfidIFtWaEgyBrlGR1Klk7SIcqjEHUA FdiM+PweY4opHXXKn60NOZCqBJ59K43drOQgRouz8E2T3yEoYg40xAfY3lhJV/Vx5+kSTjmy sT2xotlPn/GzfaAEvNuJDK+Mec3LvfbbDoOWFolNyEvoMQqF5Q3A8eGqYsoVGBPxyzNvF2iY LkymxiXpgrSN0Q/LOK7pFlWwbVC8Z6g5I0J9ecgD55dGLoX2luLir787XX/JxGffzbRnP9NE ifenJGrQmx4CyEaz/CHQqSbROm5Uo/YFUX9J7OfUO4mtu90j773j32I3psey/Fz3EC/A2PHv Ghb0KsWYpS3Pj5TV1gGyswARAQABiQI8BBgBCAAmFiEEiXU9vf6EjrSK+ZFJQufIbgEa9J4F AlxFmoICGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQQufIbgEa9J7qOQ//YG/4e69YTSjtiYLXzBI8tRU2Sx+NFByx zx+C/r0EBThLtgRwCqEUZRB7iIDSO8aZ0Qa3vwWRohlD1tn/LBdDFfMmuQkNVdLIrjBoGBB9 B5xHdZJ9xnTZEwpTtk6IWolT4j+8rpGemGKKiFo3X6l02On4Qb4iM7h6rcDb76mfwooNYzB3 8PPcLvyOWb/9iCXAb5N7doo5zmOl15DVwvIF04eXU0q1FFj/iS1zNmtZ5Got82O1TQFV+de4 Rb3YA80IZhhhCiHHJqkMKeKQogRqU+UNDBARUBxfUtKsJtQzTQ2JUGwkb6X6bx53FTLP6O9q hDoODVweE1LdB1k1H5Nn+gawPdRMBqj43Y2amK7KEgoTBrwU04CLpKiaAC0S+EcJFfJcwtpK k3F+uTtP/hnhFnWbn8SgRkHKXKWqSCt63NstXhMzAJut1gEzV+CcPNKqa/sFgQaYEvzCS5Kl F/PXj0++f3TIFqT+2ZNNp8Bz8dT7gh8RPPg5oYQiCHH8K1RAmq7gKqmwyg0qgOazHnped+od X4f3qx320JAP6NP9wglDm6eht48NJzb0sffN8z34wrP66oz8oPKtS5CFV0m/384hEg0lmi3W wo2Hno7rA1etTPJX0dI6/GLlQDtNTHvKQ077HQdWVOMQVWC9j7YH7Zr9NjtOvxcNVRX3fxpJ 6CE= X-Tagtoolbar-Keys: D20190219101444679 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:14:44 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7736280106 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=J/alzgS5; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of johalun0@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=johalun0@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.44 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[10]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.79)[-0.788,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.64)[ip: (-8.54), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:55:49 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:14:50 -0000 On 2/18/19 10:54 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things >> simply on the "5 year old" basis. > IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external > projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural change= s > that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. > > If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating > POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already > thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. > > w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and > further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users > on older hardware here. This! Especially, support for modern laptops is important. Personally, I don't know many developers who use a desktop PC these days (but I do respect the fact that many do - old PCs as well). My laptop builds world in 1h30m which is pretty decent. I don't feel a need at all for desktop computer and I don't want to trade away the freedom of bringing my laptop with me anywhere for work. When it comes to attracting new developers, modern laptop support also plays an important role. Without new developers coming in, this project will fade out and die. Another side of graphics which isn't discussed at all is GPU computing using technologies like Radeon Open Compute, made possible by the amdgpu driver with KFD (porting work in progress but not a priority atm). i915kms has GVT for virtualization of the GPU (porting initialized). These are pretty serious technologies that could potentially lead to good business (which is now lost to Linux). Modern graphics support isn't all about fancy desktops and spinning gears.=C2=A0 Totally outside the topic of this thread but I felt like ranting a bit...= =2E PS, if anyone want to help develop an iommu driver for amdkfd, please let us know :) Cheers! > Again all IMHO. > > disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks > say around here) "I have no dog in this hunt". > > mcl > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 08:15:25 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5787F14E4B30; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:15:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gonzo@bluezbox.com) Received: from id.bluezbox.com (id.bluezbox.com [45.55.20.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DFA972A1B; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:15:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gonzo@bluezbox.com) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=id.bluezbox.com) by id.bluezbox.com with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1gw0Yb-000KMf-Oz; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:15:14 -0800 Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by id.bluezbox.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1J8FBBf078284; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gonzo@bluezbox.com) X-Authentication-Warning: id.bluezbox.com: gonzo set sender to gonzo@bluezbox.com using -f Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:15:11 -0800 From: Oleksandr Tymoshenko To: Michael Gmelin Cc: Mark Linimon , Baptiste Daroussin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , "Rodney W. Grimes" , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190219081511.GA78044@bluezbox.com> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> <21E2EBA6-F4EE-4608-B2EA-AF731F892583@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <21E2EBA6-F4EE-4608-B2EA-AF731F892583@freebsd.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/11.1-RELEASE-p4 (amd64) User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.0 (2018-05-17) X-Spam-Level: -- X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "id.bluezbox.com", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see The administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Michael Gmelin (grembo@freebsd.org) wrote: > > > > On 18. Feb 2019, at 23:54, Mark Linimon wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > >> [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5DFA972A1B X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gonzo@bluezbox.com designates 45.55.20.155 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gonzo@bluezbox.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.72 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bluezbox.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.bluezbox.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.593,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:45.55.0.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.82)[ip: (-7.73), ipnet: 45.55.0.0/19(-3.86), asn: 14061(2.57), country: US(-0.07)] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:55:48 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:15:25 -0000 Michael Gmelin (grembo@freebsd.org) wrote: > > > > On 18. Feb 2019, at 23:54, Mark Linimon wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > >> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > >> simply on the "5 year old" basis. > > > > IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external > > projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural changes > > that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. > > > > If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating > > POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already > > thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. > > > > w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and > > further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users > > on older hardware here. > > > > Again all IMHO. > > > > disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks > > say around here) > > I’m very happy (and grateful) that 2018 was the first year in over a decade I was able to run FreeBSD on a state of the art laptop with all the features that are essential to me working - which included decent touchpad support provided through evdev+libinput. I want to second this. evdev + libinput was the only option out of several that provided smooth multitouch experience for Xorg on my 2018 laptop I really appreciate all the efforts to make it work both on kernel and ports side. -- gonzo From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 12:49:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FD014F0240; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:49:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38F6585ED6; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:49:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id p27so9076418edc.6; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 04:49:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=trWqwI/1lU/8DgC4qcgFmT9AArU0Pi1wHe62uQhB4fM=; b=DfkpTzt9KezFuDpqzD2324JQ+KmaKF5+esalJrZXHkfDZN2LYdZPw4ah18WIEqDU6b sSTngUvqpaTWtxgQ36hS9/Q70KcyMWUowy7/DDBWjJ+lauKlSOoXqtWF+yYTAcEK62lc /tNWiSIrvc4nqTrtXT0Yo442ojNJh77nPP7fbV692Pfj7Z0jwYVYf1FtMtWY0zQe5eq6 v0WPH5ncyNG535A6072fTBLeuURfsKqc0deW5oCEBWLcMJUYAuoh2H+eN9kmJ4xYpGmx LFhm4xt/XN+vwCn2vSX4SJmdLl8oGT/WeBpIFqkZM5Y3RL4jn5+Asbp0OBCiNMNQd8Gu svNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=trWqwI/1lU/8DgC4qcgFmT9AArU0Pi1wHe62uQhB4fM=; b=amSaaGFJZo2Y1gXh2GNGInP7LLXPN/f33EXZiPFWa1SbgbU56ATleYxc9NmlJkaBi6 Gw+npmKG4qRBc5h/B11aQeYwWfhJt1VDJIqhAxVj6EerA0EY5r13NnMrkGZHf0nDLUJB 61w+K8uJJoQ7g3n2wjieRxy6XdatfecvHdFn+dzBtHt2ezd2jf1y9eeLZANr4/QwalvK BR7xoTIw98QY5j1d27yUYQEahN7/v4yPAd083wvHZiTF4qXS8RMjBZJi7XP7N48DUz0X 5CDnvVbdVL/4R2FBK76lKfJ1nt5Bs4fDnujV2XT9XM+Jpmw77FFCs7FfyNsiIDUim4IT JONA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZoC+dM+nTXnQxFHosWiWNehZ5G8zbHN62VWEs814EdzxSIVU0F giaQAhjx+bFPa1qjgH6Qxzw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZuWRpMJv6sKPXpuzBdu6Uu4QGWJNEjcZCSTB/fRhRY7mvSfSwFs7DPl7omthhY3YELPP+mpg== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:d396:: with SMTP id x22mr20781520edq.182.1550580543986; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 04:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [83.74.56.175] ([83.74.56.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o63sm4772411edb.16.2019.02.19.04.49.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 04:49:02 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? From: Daniel Ebdrup X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C101) In-Reply-To: <20190219081511.GA78044@bluezbox.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:49:02 +0100 Cc: Michael Gmelin , Baptiste Daroussin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , "Rodney W. Grimes" , Steve Kargl , Mark Linimon , Vladimir Kondratyev Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <77542747-D818-4A61-9D40-934A71D4EAEE@gmail.com> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> <21E2EBA6-F4EE-4608-B2EA-AF731F892583@freebsd.org> <20190219081511.GA78044@bluezbox.com> To: Oleksandr Tymoshenko X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 38F6585ED6 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=DfkpTzt9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of debdrup@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::536 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=debdrup@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.18 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[11]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.68)[ip: (-9.06), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.27), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:57:56 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:49:07 -0000 > On 19 Feb 2019, at 09.15, Oleksandr Tymoshenko wrote:= >=20 > Michael Gmelin (grembo@freebsd.org) wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>>> On 18. Feb 2019, at 23:54, Mark Linimon wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >>>> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things >>>> simply on the "5 year old" basis. >>>=20 >>> IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external >>> projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural changes= >>> that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. >>>=20 >>> If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating >>> POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already >>> thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. >>>=20 >>> w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and >>> further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users >>> on older hardware here. >>>=20 >>> Again all IMHO. >>>=20 >>> disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks >>> say around here) >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m very happy (and grateful) that 2018 was the first year in ove= r a decade I was able to run FreeBSD on a state of the art laptop with all t= he features that are essential to me working - which included decent touchpa= d support provided through evdev+libinput. >=20 > I want to second this. evdev + libinput was the only option out of > several that provided smooth multitouch experience for Xorg on my 2018 > laptop I really appreciate all the efforts to make it work both on > kernel and ports side. >=20 > --=20 > gonzo > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= If I may throw my 0,02=E2=82=AC, getting a newer graphics stack also gives m= e (and others) the option to combine many machine functions into one; for ex= ample, I can use a single machine as all the usual things like: router+firew= all(ipfw), fileserver which can satuate 1Gbps LAN and WAN with NFSv4 and/or S= MB, and many other things (those aren=E2=80=99t _that_ new) What is new is that we can now use it as a media center for efficient hardwa= re accelerated playback of h264 and h265, as well as on-the-fly transcoding t= o stream to mobile devices via libva or vdpau, qsv or similar.= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 14:27:04 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058A614F254F; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:27:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C42189419; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:27:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x1JEPYjV010742; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 06:25:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x1JEPWAw010741; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 06:25:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? In-Reply-To: <77542747-D818-4A61-9D40-934A71D4EAEE@gmail.com> To: Daniel Ebdrup Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 06:25:32 -0800 (PST) CC: Oleksandr Tymoshenko , Michael Gmelin , Baptiste Daroussin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Mark Linimon , Vladimir Kondratyev X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5C42189419 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.11 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.76)[0.756,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[ip: (0.02), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.01), asn: 13868(-0.01), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.971,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.51)[0.509,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[11]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:22:01 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:27:04 -0000 > > On 19 Feb 2019, at 09.15, Oleksandr Tymoshenko wrote: > > > > Michael Gmelin (grembo@freebsd.org) wrote: > >> > >> > >>>> On 18. Feb 2019, at 23:54, Mark Linimon wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > >>>> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > >>>> simply on the "5 year old" basis. > >>> > >>> IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external > >>> projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural changes > >>> that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. The port was created long ago to get newer graphcis, that port even had very nice instructions on how to bypass the inbase kmod of the same name that accsesed the same hardware. > >>> > >>> If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating > >>> POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already > >>> thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. > >>> > >>> w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and > >>> further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users > >>> on older hardware here. We had the kmod in ports that supported this, no one was being left behind in any respect of the word. We are certainly driving users away by our operation model, I here it often from several different places I interact with users, linux conferences, oscon, local user group meetings, other BSD users that have moved to another platform, our own #freebsd irc channel. > >>> > >>> Again all IMHO. > >>> > >>> disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks > >>> say around here) > >> > >> I?m very happy (and grateful) that 2018 was the first year in over a decade I was able to run FreeBSD on a state of the art laptop with all the features that are essential to me working - which included decent touchpad support provided through evdev+libinput. > > > > I want to second this. evdev + libinput was the only option out of > > several that provided smooth multitouch experience for Xorg on my 2018 > > laptop I really appreciate all the efforts to make it work both on > > kernel and ports side. > > > > -- > > gonzo > > If I may throw my 0,02?, getting a newer graphics stack also gives me (and others) the option to combine many machine functions into one; for example, I can use a single machine as all the usual things like: router+firewall(ipfw), fileserver which can satuate 1Gbps LAN and WAN with NFSv4 and/or SMB, and many other things (those aren?t _that_ new) > What is new is that we can now use it as a media center for efficient hardware accelerated playback of h264 and h265, as well as on-the-fly transcoding to stream to mobile devices via libva or vdpau, qsv or similar. The new driver exists and existsted before any touching of in base DRM2 happened. Many seem to be ignoring that fact, you did not get any new software, you simply moved the bits around a little. And the root problem, not being able to easily over ride an inbase module with a module for ports is only slighly better addressed in that we can now blacklist modules (that is a net gain, but from looking at things that is the only gain here.) Let me repeat, there is no new supported hardware or software that did not exist before the removal of in base DRM2, and it is only very slightly easier to use the new drm2 kmod for new hardware, and slighly more difficult to use the legacy drm2 kmod moved to ports. This is not some leap forward for anyone, and defanitly a slight step backwards for some, many, who knows, I put it in the 1000's, of users. We have never been very good at having kmod's work well over a long period, we break them left and right, and we got away with it in virtualbox, but you start doing that to the graphics driver and you are going to driver users away as they simply can not have there desktop go non-functional for even hours, let alone days. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 17:30:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5636E14F6405; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) Received: from raven.bwct.de (raven.bwct.de [195.149.99.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "raven.bwct.de", Issuer "raven.bwct.de" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DE168F44D; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:30:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de ([10.1.1.37]) by raven.bwct.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1JHSoVS036358 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:28:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cicely.de; s=default; t=1550597332; bh=H4VXZm1kVV1w4S4C8l3qDn9IoAgCNQ3l7fhz+Mvhqg4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Reply-To:References:In-Reply-To; b=vaku5qfV4PklZhRxULXNL4YmGvdy8N057GG/csDySBF/bnHIdtgRF79MoDCQmO/Yc GthBM0n2j/l0Vi305h21UFprU18GtZgz0+scKhQzefX0J3ZmwBZpzTh4VF+TvOfNne y2AlUI7b+Pfb3AWYlbYCKFBmpzhRAOfeR05U+Ksc= Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely7.cicely.de [10.1.1.9]) by mail.cicely.de (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1JHSkbW025928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:28:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x1JHSkw5065670; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:28:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1JHSfHu065669; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:28:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:28:41 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: Niclas Zeising Cc: Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev , sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190219172841.GA93368@cicely7.cicely.de> Reply-To: ticso@cicely.de References: <20190217180323.GA95686@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <71aa0ee09292b0e8648e385de33c455f@kondratyev.su> <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7b25c1bf-5648-cd52-544b-828538a742d9@freebsd.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cicely7.cicely.de 12.0-STABLE amd64 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-1, BAYES_00=-1.9 autolearn=ham version=3.3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.0 (2010-01-18) on spamd.cicely.de X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6DE168F44D X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cicely.de header.s=default header.b=vaku5qfV X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.01 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[ticso@cicely.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cicely.de:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx1.bwct.de]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.00)[country: DE(-0.01)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21461, ipnet:195.149.99.0/24, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.37)[-0.369,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cicely.de:s=default]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.06)[0.060,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.89)[-0.889,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cicely.de]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.99.149.195.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.20.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:30:43 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 01:43:22PM +0100, Niclas Zeising wrote: > On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: > >On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: > >>On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > >>>Anyone have insight into what evdev is? > >>evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input events > >>like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. > > > >And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create > >pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. > > > >>>I do not need nor what these modules loaded. > >>I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config should > >>disable most of evdev.ko dependencies > > > >Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well > >as libinput not be part of the standard packages? > > > >The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers > >mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do > >not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up the > >mess they create. > > > >I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland fad... > > EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve > input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a lot > of input devices stop working, or work much worse. I use it to run a wmt(4) touchpanel display, which wouldn't work otherwise. I have to say that I kind of like the evdev system as it also makes it very easy to place events from userland processes. What I don't like is that we had no autosetup support in XOrg when I first used it - in the meantime this might have changed however. > > We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the > FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new users, > and make current users use FreeBSD more. > > Evdev and libinput is used by both Wayland and xorg. You are free to > use either one. > > Regards > -- > Niclas Zeising > FreeBSD Graphics Team > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- B.Walter http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 15:32:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A7D14F3E7C for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:32:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 419F28B727 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:31:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id z25so1802659qti.13 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 07:31:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BocDHvH8Q7C6/Ma0B+BxHvBkYNSEW5/vOogOZO84S4E=; b=Cc9YVgUaAAD4iSBHI25HItW5hH1+IAeSePkxJ/4kCYVyFG8pqfEJzSJsRTC7NXcOqO ryLIlWfNsjXepjimZVAaVxrZdjxP6lOps+YxdQfjwqvJjPmxcd3rSWu/1XmR6pN6jjhH xNj85145EZpnrfxFE6Gse9qTLta2w0iZvcwLuIp3tbtQaFMTuFVk3BX3PM7YHqUBbuUK w+H6doiqqYEKkRTiayOBlDgsV1HG6KSN6jDdwybxwf+lI0Itavq1Q93771LTVs773lcK +3ckB2Qh2w7//7jIRWCIWMc2JoJ8YNK1cwGD9kWHJTFG0sFaczshUdQmFMvOMXsHIGDv tuSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BocDHvH8Q7C6/Ma0B+BxHvBkYNSEW5/vOogOZO84S4E=; b=CnjZwYKGi+juorwWhjBQmU9Y8OTi3lAZa6bYcpTtz2s4kr/4ygTN4FpS/vh8axfYgS TD8QfiPPqFryY2IdVJWCuWyJDgBXSkSlEzqm13eIQKGDRcAFxvgV+DqxPM7rZtKle+bo hbZX95M+wMkTkRsz0LFwfUQnbiiYoY5PXDGtZ8gwO/Eodg+UnzWdiZkwcOxnUSbmz8hr QwnrG3X5YH/ewi8TLsvG+9QA2CRiZqfFESECQ5qjaiN/oj8qXQlSJwmmJgu8RtCOT5lI CiphGwrUtgvwdhiEHvIvq3Yd8KUz9JKN8n9m4+3MBdO4J4YqKhtcNZRIaw8JUdOwtR9A LZgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuY7vD5YJOzdB0Rd9IVArrGaE0wQe1MQ7IGKY1RODgLP5r/0qvM2 pnCbKCc2N/qL7gEX+XxxuozMthrWzJ8YswwLU+fgZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbxZrnT3XUh1gTQ0TjKgnyDUEnjDHxfb0WUiQEhkcBiddhxEfyYGN2HVac+rmjMVUQYLQQncLZq3bOhPyfkw2Q= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:35f8:: with SMTP id l53mr23607069qtb.15.1550590318562; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 07:31:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <77542747-D818-4A61-9D40-934A71D4EAEE@gmail.com> <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:31:47 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Daniel Ebdrup , Oleksandr Tymoshenko , Michael Gmelin , Baptiste Daroussin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Mark Linimon , Vladimir Kondratyev X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 419F28B727 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=Cc9YVgUa X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.54 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.832,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.70)[ip: (-8.83), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWELVE(0.00)[12]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:04:06 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:32:00 -0000 On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 8:17 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > > On 19 Feb 2019, at 09.15, Oleksandr Tymoshenko > wrote: > > > > > > Michael Gmelin (grembo@freebsd.org) wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>> On 18. Feb 2019, at 23:54, Mark Linimon > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > >>>> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > > >>>> simply on the "5 year old" basis. > > >>> > > >>> IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external > > >>> projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural > changes > > >>> that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. > > The port was created long ago to get newer graphcis, that port even > had very nice instructions on how to bypass the inbase kmod of the > same name that accsesed the same hardware. > Yes. Those in-base drivers don't work. Or rather don't work well. The kinda sorta work for some people, but there's a huge number of kludges and hacks the graphics guys have been doing to keep it going and it's too much. Those hacks, like needing to make xf86-video-ati-legacy, like hacking back in support for drm2 in mesa which has moved on to requiring, basically drm3, like looking at issues that arise from there being regressions in drm-kmod on some older hardware. It's too much. There's lots of duct-tape and bailing wire that you don't see that's necessary to keep it going. That's the real bottom line here, whether you want to accept this harsh reality or not: we simply do not have the resources to continue to support drm2. I deleted the rest of your rant. It's not worth answering point by point. Things aren't like you think they are, and if the many polite (and not so polite) explanations haven't sunk in, another round sure won't help. drm2 is dead. The decision was made months ago. The game is finally over. I'll be committing the removal later today. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 15:33:19 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF6314F3ECA; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:33:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) Received: from mail.blih.net (mail.blih.net [212.83.177.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.blih.net", Issuer "mail.blih.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C03E28B894; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:33:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) Received: from mail.blih.net (mail.blih.net [212.83.177.182]) by mail.blih.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id eeffaf1f; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:33:13 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=bidouilliste.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mail; bh=Ifb0zp12U0ZNl/QJg2+1HZpok2I=; b=IA3aWqCADiA5Kdcg0NPoRFT93kOf x6GNpxCoMzm9IulRdTHJCk7xdIW4Y0Br5Y6qOMw2sWwhmO50Fcbkhu3f3qdhKA7m YUKq78vigOjzfCFAWy8lLn62x613K72/xE/IsapTbMjuooneUcHdlnH+TBD8r2Ma 7mVDtXvVqPt3XsI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=bidouilliste.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s= mail; b=LfZLkAyS7NOjIOreawYCoGUMtkAzS3YIxSQztPIDC/o3oql3xoSVAE0y H3RAXxQ8Lke4CzHKL+o4WsEvylcOOJkghDko+lZDyfM1tly4+1WvsamAN+jv40Sh DspSV6UdWumokUK4CPT16C4qRN6PA3vmd1bifMQGvPJTAcx2/CQ= Received: from skull.home.blih.net (ip-9.net-89-3-105.rev.numericable.fr [89.3.105.9]) by mail.blih.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 4b6e6815 TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:33:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:33:12 +0100 From: Emmanuel Vadot To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Daniel Ebdrup , Baptiste Daroussin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Michael Gmelin , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Oleksandr Tymoshenko , Steve Kargl , Mark Linimon , Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-Id: <20190219163312.c366eaead26ba2240018184f@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> References: <77542747-D818-4A61-9D40-934A71D4EAEE@gmail.com> <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C03E28B894 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bidouilliste.com header.s=mail header.b=IA3aWqCA; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of manu@bidouilliste.com designates 212.83.177.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=manu@bidouilliste.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.91 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:212.83.177.182/32]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx-backup.blih.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bidouilliste.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.891,0]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.19)[ip: (-1.18), ipnet: 212.83.160.0/19(0.66), asn: 12876(-0.42), country: FR(-0.01)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12876, ipnet:212.83.160.0/19, country:FR]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.923,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bidouilliste.com:s=mail]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bidouilliste.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWELVE(0.00)[12]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:23:19 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:33:20 -0000 On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 06:25:32 -0800 (PST) "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > > On 19 Feb 2019, at 09.15, Oleksandr Tymoshenko wrote: > > > > > > Michael Gmelin (grembo@freebsd.org) wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>> On 18. Feb 2019, at 23:54, Mark Linimon wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > >>>> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > > >>>> simply on the "5 year old" basis. > > >>> > > >>> IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external > > >>> projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural changes > > >>> that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. > > The port was created long ago to get newer graphcis, that port even > had very nice instructions on how to bypass the inbase kmod of the > same name that accsesed the same hardware. > > > >>> > > >>> If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating > > >>> POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already > > >>> thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. > > >>> > > >>> w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and > > >>> further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users > > >>> on older hardware here. > > We had the kmod in ports that supported this, no one was being > left behind in any respect of the word. We are certainly driving > users away by our operation model, I here it often from several > different places I interact with users, linux conferences, oscon, > local user group meetings, other BSD users that have moved to > another platform, our own #freebsd irc channel. I'm pretty sure that you can find more user of -CURRENT that are happy that i915kms from base isn't loaded automatically than users who aren't. > > > >>> > > >>> Again all IMHO. > > >>> > > >>> disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks > > >>> say around here) > > >> > > >> I?m very happy (and grateful) that 2018 was the first year in over a decade I was able to run FreeBSD on a state of the art laptop with all the features that are essential to me working - which included decent touchpad support provided through evdev+libinput. > > > > > > I want to second this. evdev + libinput was the only option out of > > > several that provided smooth multitouch experience for Xorg on my 2018 > > > laptop I really appreciate all the efforts to make it work both on > > > kernel and ports side. > > > > > > -- > > > gonzo > > > > If I may throw my 0,02?, getting a newer graphics stack also gives me (and others) the option to combine many machine functions into one; for example, I can use a single machine as all the usual things like: router+firewall(ipfw), fileserver which can satuate 1Gbps LAN and WAN with NFSv4 and/or SMB, and many other things (those aren?t _that_ new) > > What is new is that we can now use it as a media center for efficient hardware accelerated playback of h264 and h265, as well as on-the-fly transcoding to stream to mobile devices via libva or vdpau, qsv or similar. > > The new driver exists and existsted before any touching of in base DRM2 > happened. Many seem to be ignoring that fact, you did not get any new > software, you simply moved the bits around a little. > > And the root problem, not being able to easily over ride an inbase > module with a module for ports is only slighly better addressed > in that we can now blacklist modules (that is a net gain, but from > looking at things that is the only gain here.) > > Let me repeat, there is no new supported hardware or software that > did not exist before the removal of in base DRM2, and it is only > very slightly easier to use the new drm2 kmod for new hardware, > and slighly more difficult to use the legacy drm2 kmod moved > to ports. No, it's easier for amd64 users (which should not use the legacy-drm anyway) but harder (apparently) for i386 users, which are what ? 1% of our base users ? (at least for graphics purpose) And no I'm not saying that we should left them alone, but clearly the graphics team don't have the resources (time or people) do deal with all the arches. We are now two people working on drm for arm/arm64 and we hope to have something commitable soon, we need the same thing for i386 (and probably other arches). > This is not some leap forward for anyone, and defanitly a slight > step backwards for some, many, who knows, I put it in the 1000's, > of users. Again wrong, this is a big leap forward for 99% of the users. > We have never been very good at having kmod's > work well over a long period, we break them left and right, and > we got away with it in virtualbox, but you start doing that to > the graphics driver and you are going to driver users away as > they simply can not have there desktop go non-functional for > even hours, let alone days. > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Cheers, -- Emmanuel Vadot From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 16:18:22 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8556214F4D19; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:18:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F26B8CE7E; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:18:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id w861g363VMRX3w863gdgFp; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:18:18 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TL87tGta c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=CFTnQlWoA9kA:10 a=H2chl1sJAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=oC-9f4RUFUvXFAz4hbIA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=1LKL4F7LEIE-fDNXaEJ9:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from android-68f84e02b5988183.esitwifi.local (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 19B41307; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:18:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:17:48 -0800 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Pete Wright , "Rodney W. Grimes" , Warner Losh CC: Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfKuof13Yc4iiioYbHxCv2yJx1+x6/cdJ29KQGaIWpX32n5M7lfm90/IJiya5vWiXXurgwdpqolULEKo2jPuCCUymSFErm74MiHTbC2gimXbPflpi0PIS nmLkx0SBT2uAgsKAzWq2/p4KZS1Mb3cIl+8WgroVdTJPKQtoIbUPj9prkVHUgGQFa8bLdy1f2dQ93m/+UgR1W1U9fbSeRUIO6DUNp3t3bdnB6SWSBgX3eTEI s9x2SbaNu1ecrOpWy4ROIZjGKiO0XcFwmpQsL5W0DcHFAMZSS7o0id1k8hMyms4DWPyC5ShqOxwDkUhml8VlrMKyuaX4ygZJXSq/08DAlnISiSEMoD40T43n 5xchx1PW9ASiEl54rE8aH9M2ItcT5g9UQlHrDwRHQS+JXtDFz6cN2rLdB+GKH6djiGbUgAmZxtEZMtRBvWhfbSJM6FKu9x2Ia/+EH3irfsouEbcuTkpb9iZJ MUjzLNfQD/J7Gw+WemIaLKifBwO29xjnZ4B4xg== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9F26B8CE7E X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.24 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.979,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[11]; IP_SCORE(-2.05)[ip: (-5.54), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.59), asn: 6327(-2.02), country: CA(-0.09)]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[12.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[233.154.66.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11, 17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:23:19 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:18:22 -0000 On February 18, 2019 9:17:37 AM PST, Pete Wright wr= ote: > > >On 2/18/19 8:50 AM, Rodney W=2E Grimes wrote: >>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W=2E Grimes < >>> >>> I don't know=2E I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything >newer >>> than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the >old way >>> is broken and doesn't work=2E >> But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that 5 >year >> old hardware that are totally happy with the intree DRM2 that is in >stable/12, >> and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with >thete a >> "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit)=2E I know that there is >wip >> to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start >changing >> the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right=2E Port >> up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code >from >> base would be a much more appropriate path=2E >> >> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things >> simply on the "5 year old" basis=2E Not everyone, and infact few now >> a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware, >> giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5 >> years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low=2E >I've put a lot of effort helping test and document how to get a usable=20 >desktop environment on a modern laptop=2E=C2=A0 there were two issues whi= ch=20 >motivated me to do this: > >1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online were=20 >using macOS as their primary desktop environment=2E=C2=A0 when comparing = this=20 >to the OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it >did=20 >explain the stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem=2E=C2=A0 people see= med=20 >afraid to touch things due the brittle nature of its hardware support=2E I noticed this too=2E And every time it struck me as odd=2E > >2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty=2E >fortunately=20 >there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - but > >they were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless=20 >from a FreeBSD perspective=2E Which is why removing drm2 was necessary=2E=20 > >after trying to get traction to update the in-tree drm subsystem i was=20 >lucky enough to sync up with the graphics team which was working on=20 >syncing things up with modern hardware support=2E=C2=A0 because of that i= 'm >now=20 >able to get my small startup pretty much all on board with FreeBSD=2E=C2= =A0 i=20 >use it on my workstations as well as on or server infrastructure=20 >(physical and AWS)=2E=C2=A0 i would consider this a success for our commu= nity=20 >as it's opened up the eyes to a whole new generation of devs to >FreeBSD=2E > >one thing missing from all of these arguments is real data=2E=C2=A0 how m= any=20 >people are on haswell era hardware?=C2=A0 i can tell from my experience t= he=20 >past several years the number of people who have post-haswell gear seem > >to be more numerous, or at least more vocal (and frankly easier to work > >with while squashing bugs)=2E > >i can also say that personally it would be great to improve support for > >systems requiring drm2 - but that gear is hard to come by, so we are=20 >really dependent on helpful collaboration from those who are being >effected=2E Drm2 is not required=2E My current laptop is 5 years old, an HD3000=2E The= previous one is 13 years old, i915=2E Both work perfectly with drm-current= on 13-current=2E Franky, I don't see what the fuss is about=2E > > >-pete > >--=20 >Pete Wright >pete@nomadlogic=2Eorg >@nomadlogicLA > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-current@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >To unsubscribe, send any mail to >"freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg" The only irritation with drm-current is after doing a NO_CLEAN build ARC i= s large enough that on occasion a video may not play because X is unable to= get the memory=2E Other than that it works better than drm-legacy -- with = no artifacts=2E --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 17:24:02 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D681D14F638A; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:24:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [18.222.6.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C695C8F14C; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:24:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (unknown [18.188.142.31]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 11A8017080; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:24:01 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:23:59 +0000 From: Mark Linimon To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Daniel Ebdrup , Oleksandr Tymoshenko , Michael Gmelin , Baptiste Daroussin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Niclas Zeising , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190219172358.GB26499@lonesome.com> References: <77542747-D818-4A61-9D40-934A71D4EAEE@gmail.com> <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201902191425.x1JEPWAw010741@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C695C8F14C X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.79 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[11.6.222.18.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.soaustin.net]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.27)[ipnet: 18.220.0.0/14(0.06), asn: 16509(-1.34), country: US(-0.07)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:18.220.0.0/14, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.26)[0.261,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.70)[-0.698,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[lonesome.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.81)[0.806,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:23:19 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:24:03 -0000 On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 06:25:32AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > We are certainly driving users away by our operation model If you want to help take up more support duties -- especially for aging hardware -- I doubt anyone would stop you. There is plenty of work to take up; just check Bugzilla. > This is not some leap forward for anyone Nonsense. > and definitely a slight step backwards for some, many, who knows, > I put it in the 1000s of users. Utter nonsense. Right now we see the the following case: "latest graphics fail to work on i386 laptops". I fail to believe that is more than a handful of users. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 17:36:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F1214F6806; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:36:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC7F48F9F0; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:36:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1JHZsql001623 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:35:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1JHZsK3001622; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:35:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:35:54 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Cy Schubert Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Pete Wright , "Rodney W. Grimes" , Warner Losh , Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190219173554.GA1066@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BC7F48F9F0 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.97 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.07)[ip: (0.14), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.20), asn: 73(0.09), country: US(-0.07)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.72)[0.719,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.977,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.51)[0.511,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:23:20 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:36:07 -0000 On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 08:17:48AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > On February 18, 2019 9:17:37 AM PST, Pete Wright wrote: > > > > > >On 2/18/19 8:50 AM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > >>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W. Grimes < > >>> > >>> I don't know. I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything > >newer > >>> than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the > >old way > >>> is broken and doesn't work. > >> But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that 5 > >year > >> old hardware that are totally happy with the intree DRM2 that is in > >stable/12, > >> and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with > >thete a > >> "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit). I know that there is > >wip > >> to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start > >changing > >> the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right. Port > >> up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code > >from > >> base would be a much more appropriate path. > >> > >> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > >> simply on the "5 year old" basis. Not everyone, and infact few now > >> a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware, > >> giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5 > >> years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low. > >I've put a lot of effort helping test and document how to get a usable > >desktop environment on a modern laptop.  there were two issues which > >motivated me to do this: > > > >1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online were > >using macOS as their primary desktop environment.  when comparing this > >to the OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it > >did > >explain the stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem.  people seemed > >afraid to touch things due the brittle nature of its hardware support. > > I noticed this too. And every time it struck me as odd. > > > > >2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty. > >fortunately > >there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - but > > > >they were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless > >from a FreeBSD perspective. > > Which is why removing drm2 was necessary. > > > > >after trying to get traction to update the in-tree drm subsystem i was > >lucky enough to sync up with the graphics team which was working on > >syncing things up with modern hardware support.  because of that i'm > >now > >able to get my small startup pretty much all on board with FreeBSD.  i > >use it on my workstations as well as on or server infrastructure > >(physical and AWS).  i would consider this a success for our community > >as it's opened up the eyes to a whole new generation of devs to > >FreeBSD. > > > >one thing missing from all of these arguments is real data.  how many > >people are on haswell era hardware?  i can tell from my experience the > >past several years the number of people who have post-haswell gear seem > > > >to be more numerous, or at least more vocal (and frankly easier to work > > > >with while squashing bugs). > > > >i can also say that personally it would be great to improve support for > > > >systems requiring drm2 - but that gear is hard to come by, so we are > >really dependent on helpful collaboration from those who are being > >effected. > > Drm2 is not required. My current laptop is 5 years old, an HD3000. The previous one is 13 years old, i915. Both work perfectly with drm-current on 13-current. Franky, I don't see what the fuss is about. > > My Dell Latitude D530 running i386 freebsd, which used the i915kms.ko now locks up solid with drm-legacy-kmod. The PAE vs non-PAE i386/conf/pmap.h merger in r342567 broke drm-legacy-kmod. It seems that Niclas has provided a patch that fixes the building of drm-legacy-kmod. Doing a bisection on /usr/src commits is fairly slow as it takes a day to build world/kernel and the minimum set of ports need to fire up Xorg. r343543 and earlier appear to work fine with drm-legacy-kmod. I have now lost 2 weeks of hacking time that could have been spent on the missing C99 complex math routines. Yeah, I know very few people care about numerical simulations on FreeBSD. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 18:32:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B88914F892D for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:32:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2784F6C027 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:32:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [176.74.212.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0FF8260346 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:32:35 +0100 (CET) To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" From: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: FYI: Patch for booting FreeBSD using a 4K block size SSD Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:30:09 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2784F6C027 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hps@selasky.org designates 88.99.82.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hps@selasky.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.58 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.28)[ip: (-9.48), ipnet: 88.99.0.0/16(-4.66), asn: 24940(-2.26), country: DE(-0.01)]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.turbocat.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.987,0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:32:45 -0000 Hi, This patch allows you to create a new MBR and BSD label, which is bootable by intel based macs at least. The problem is GEOM uses 4K block size, while the boot loaders need 512 byte block size. https://reviews.freebsd.org/D19245 --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 18:59:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF41414F9752; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:59:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x343.google.com (mail-ot1-x343.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::343]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2109B6D57E; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:59:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x343.google.com with SMTP id v62so27208314otb.3; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:59:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:cc:references:to:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=sgHhCK7nyMQ4j9VWlgKyrcsvP19H0l1xEkjrw3wP21M=; b=JY9NexTjv9UT6/ghzAIl0qRccRPFIOcyAQJyb4BDeyPdEiLN4xp7HB2gLIehSkMkgV EKy5Idc2wa9Zid65x1SPYLRz0AINXvnN2VubG53BAPtnPyDi5IBbusXv5kqiZMgXZqk8 ZBmifrw1kGg4J2EIY5iCYHH0TiaqwfhBKzvSWSwXFg/awcCiDYLBFf+8uLyfHgDSJAsu bCQNufl70U2AMb1VjsWsI5u/lon267ms8XeS2eFY/F9zh+Btk0Eq8rpy2K8+8D592Vlh 1Ux6qKzbWPzm0+AFt4Oxh7OR5shsgNTvTupBdS0ZLy8M3C0thZAPFUSwn/Q8AgXI5y1c duFw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:cc:references:to:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=sgHhCK7nyMQ4j9VWlgKyrcsvP19H0l1xEkjrw3wP21M=; b=jtZvaJql/9Ij0Z63NEMMuiblhwb4hgtAGRkyWfvHB33UCeSXfnwj6dbyiYPdbkgFLu xx8jts/7W56bKtcKrpTx08Avv4VZ2AT75LuCp656odMRu7oHIGdWg63YsJZ5asxvkWs9 sm2YCcvUXeGhz53zayvOpk/FrDnS892jvpLFtz6K+ZCD5MMpRbTP6Ttenls3KJAGp5bT wJbAvZjanBULXYIc7/ECd8lU9bsPq9R75JBcLtnExmBW3jqsQQlhiVMGExvHBkjoQALj uEZ9riKYiZgpRkcvN6fvVg4UUAWGdTcMEFX4OwT6LhxnE6jS4CmZeT4+9ynPVmjzorYV rOLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubLVnXuSno4ef8k9EvX27cCznE3ZQZVcB1ZGieIThvsRdodUEvy gS6RaLMvBC9qbuW+IyOdpZ+5RngjYik= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYDVfXS/tFtwd6ofztBzVydL64vTQQeSNoLN7biEnXCuRxmpb8S6lYgE0ouHz6o2en/u8g0yQ== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2963:: with SMTP id d90mr19459819otb.286.1550602769200; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.33] ([81.174.250.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k100sm3463224otk.5.2019.02.19.10.59.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:59:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Steve Kargl References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com> <20190219173554.GA1066@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" From: Johannes Lundberg Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=johalun0@gmail.com; keydata= mQINBFxFmoIBEADoFO5jY+Fmsg44KiZjufEmpEf4kt7nCOfxNG9SruWpoXUaq0B296F+fIZC hNZqv1v7lGTsfoWRusxJmLd5CQgHHxEyruZbbPpNsQ/JKoDY3GGmrmWfN/SX3y0t0kdB9HsW mJcvZhK7we52f4gxddIVBS9nQoVoONX+hzXf8zwOAa0ik0EPgEwpIKS4j9lLq4bU+mqVKdRR bPeDujEA/qbsCKhaFJkPzXZtzEe6srq4RK1doEztwnKz02b+8gs642TRkWDQeTRZputrAaoN Un4R76A1QpXWyrFG1dQu48IGHi3KbkrvNyq6R1aUBIA0+CG1npIbxmc2mtSjoyvdipmDRbBD +mhECIxmYfBT6818zuj91XjrfOyfVdV2BryBvqFkJLkS3N3QElBIiVdDgdrqiNFWiOlDMxNI tdP16oQBNo8IB27/0YHpnQEw1MafZv5gG5DO0zLtLy88ASAfL7BYf90JP19rT4JIwnxsXxyv kEJnzhsXf0QVObEiAu1MqeFyWfZ8PpunmvEmJ0VChOL+v/kIx1E9cxhhzMZhqiMXfyM4zx2+ BF1FwAwJYPuJLu2B3L0uVBu+M1YvSOmKAbXPDP8PsqPjgSBTYI51MUjuuxN6jSsHDuK6G5k4 pUWR8axa+wafhd6Vz8zVwdTJZ9LdxgLLVg0kprBgccPHhPAZVQARAQABtCZKb2hhbm5lcyBM dW5kYmVyZyA8am9oYWx1bjBAZ21haWwuY29tPokCVAQTAQgAPhYhBIl1Pb3+hI60ivmRSULn yG4BGvSeBQJcRZqCAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEELnyG4B GvSe9O0P/RzeQAu1R37RlONZTXNn+qIAHvHbZEhzrCibzaZnwYdC31wGrYmXNDyiQIqOngFf QJuufQtH/+95OESJsjR+42L/pNfFdaEWxiI003qE7uCMzLK5UWUXd/5d5vYY0CaPyNCj1tyM ZIq7x4CaR3QLTh/Fw4zMUI/ZPH2S5SxVFGv0ZZFAdNYILD3qCkAS/9HmXsqufBWbfutA8TTf wyJfywmvf7ENjlZ4QOjb242ZY9NndqbmqTgWVAws+PN5e9AT8HkadscCTCSkYnxJyYG2El27 DpAAkekYplb/C0j82KSz2fy9RgwD+tTqt88DJOeFbIbrYt44u7KLHpzaZeqyUtn0reHCkE0W lnKH2kXXbuswFB4sONxI/J5+qSmOsAm5ItO3voyjm/swpmFR1yBlxo4th26gbO5NfBOK9YsY zHKgiRDv6ZdnHo+htphRxcCDHsFPzkQe5jouI25dvMZYl1LaTS/09lwYVwVIB2SFmMtFZ7rB N4NBSzPlpsg+g4dJNqiw6Rfa2Q/wUv+MzTJgLtHjDccXlpm33Nc09UytHFtNn26PO/zrM39r TwzdLu1mg0x2WWEWTIqe4CaczQU9SIg49BSyJNoPSZx3V7nMhTKbOeQKR5aV3dXI66aENw86 pa1tipuUKCPmope/GTJatUgPiD3JkyiD+7c1zQX2UAGmuQINBFxFmoIBEACb55RAkM59huAx 4Ddd8WBjsw25qf7rzxeRKAQ7or/8LvJBYQDPXZy0RhkRiu+P+MjxwGb6HVh+LDyAYDn9d8Mt ZqCP/dOGNcl7pkb6IhfRc3i5neckXCYfbm0cigiX9JkqZSt3KT96zbjCxsFZKyIyEFsMl46q 7wKWK5Irj3zxV/Z51JNTJyMLcIRWhY8G6qlMNFgZkz2Hv63w6BRekKVImOmOdThLAscy5ybq 2CIUeAwPG7lMYG9rgcPdn3tMPeWlLmUmi5pSwOQ3AKg3xFrW3WfegjRHdqpeuXoeTjYPPCW4 gyl59uv6E12a6eivItCxj67vlBXgOr4um+zoPyXG/WfidIFtWaEgyBrlGR1Klk7SIcqjEHUA FdiM+PweY4opHXXKn60NOZCqBJ59K43drOQgRouz8E2T3yEoYg40xAfY3lhJV/Vx5+kSTjmy sT2xotlPn/GzfaAEvNuJDK+Mec3LvfbbDoOWFolNyEvoMQqF5Q3A8eGqYsoVGBPxyzNvF2iY LkymxiXpgrSN0Q/LOK7pFlWwbVC8Z6g5I0J9ecgD55dGLoX2luLir787XX/JxGffzbRnP9NE ifenJGrQmx4CyEaz/CHQqSbROm5Uo/YFUX9J7OfUO4mtu90j773j32I3psey/Fz3EC/A2PHv Ghb0KsWYpS3Pj5TV1gGyswARAQABiQI8BBgBCAAmFiEEiXU9vf6EjrSK+ZFJQufIbgEa9J4F AlxFmoICGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQQufIbgEa9J7qOQ//YG/4e69YTSjtiYLXzBI8tRU2Sx+NFByx zx+C/r0EBThLtgRwCqEUZRB7iIDSO8aZ0Qa3vwWRohlD1tn/LBdDFfMmuQkNVdLIrjBoGBB9 B5xHdZJ9xnTZEwpTtk6IWolT4j+8rpGemGKKiFo3X6l02On4Qb4iM7h6rcDb76mfwooNYzB3 8PPcLvyOWb/9iCXAb5N7doo5zmOl15DVwvIF04eXU0q1FFj/iS1zNmtZ5Got82O1TQFV+de4 Rb3YA80IZhhhCiHHJqkMKeKQogRqU+UNDBARUBxfUtKsJtQzTQ2JUGwkb6X6bx53FTLP6O9q hDoODVweE1LdB1k1H5Nn+gawPdRMBqj43Y2amK7KEgoTBrwU04CLpKiaAC0S+EcJFfJcwtpK k3F+uTtP/hnhFnWbn8SgRkHKXKWqSCt63NstXhMzAJut1gEzV+CcPNKqa/sFgQaYEvzCS5Kl F/PXj0++f3TIFqT+2ZNNp8Bz8dT7gh8RPPg5oYQiCHH8K1RAmq7gKqmwyg0qgOazHnped+od X4f3qx320JAP6NP9wglDm6eht48NJzb0sffN8z34wrP66oz8oPKtS5CFV0m/384hEg0lmi3W wo2Hno7rA1etTPJX0dI6/GLlQDtNTHvKQ077HQdWVOMQVWC9j7YH7Zr9NjtOvxcNVRX3fxpJ 6CE= X-Tagtoolbar-Keys: D20190219185925981 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:59:26 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190219173554.GA1066@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2109B6D57E X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=JY9NexTj; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of johalun0@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::343 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=johalun0@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.44 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.12)[-0.117,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.31)[ip: (3.08), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.60), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:59:31 -0000 On 2/19/19 5:35 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 08:17:48AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: >> On February 18, 2019 9:17:37 AM PST, Pete Wright = wrote: >>> >>> On 2/18/19 8:50 AM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >>>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W. Grimes < >>>>> >>>>> I don't know. I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything >>> newer >>>>> than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the >>> old way >>>>> is broken and doesn't work. >>>> But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that 5= >>> year >>>> old hardware that are totally happy with the intree DRM2 that is in >>> stable/12, >>>> and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with >>> thete a >>>> "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit). I know that there is= >>> wip >>>> to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start >>> changing >>>> the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right. Por= t >>>> up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code >>> from >>>> base would be a much more appropriate path. >>>> >>>> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things >>>> simply on the "5 year old" basis. Not everyone, and infact few now >>>> a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware, >>>> giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5 >>>> years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low. >>> I've put a lot of effort helping test and document how to get a usabl= e=20 >>> desktop environment on a modern laptop.=C2=A0 there were two issues w= hich=20 >>> motivated me to do this: >>> >>> 1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online were= =20 >>> using macOS as their primary desktop environment.=C2=A0 when comparin= g this=20 >>> to the OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it >>> did=20 >>> explain the stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem.=C2=A0 people s= eemed=20 >>> afraid to touch things due the brittle nature of its hardware support= =2E >> I noticed this too. And every time it struck me as odd. >> >>> 2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty. >>> fortunately=20 >>> there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - b= ut >>> >>> they were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless = >> >from a FreeBSD perspective. >> >> Which is why removing drm2 was necessary.=20 >> >>> after trying to get traction to update the in-tree drm subsystem i wa= s=20 >>> lucky enough to sync up with the graphics team which was working on=20 >>> syncing things up with modern hardware support.=C2=A0 because of that= i'm >>> now=20 >>> able to get my small startup pretty much all on board with FreeBSD.=C2= =A0 i=20 >>> use it on my workstations as well as on or server infrastructure=20 >>> (physical and AWS).=C2=A0 i would consider this a success for our com= munity=20 >>> as it's opened up the eyes to a whole new generation of devs to >>> FreeBSD. >>> >>> one thing missing from all of these arguments is real data.=C2=A0 how= many=20 >>> people are on haswell era hardware?=C2=A0 i can tell from my experien= ce the=20 >>> past several years the number of people who have post-haswell gear se= em >>> >>> to be more numerous, or at least more vocal (and frankly easier to wo= rk >>> >>> with while squashing bugs). >>> >>> i can also say that personally it would be great to improve support f= or >>> >>> systems requiring drm2 - but that gear is hard to come by, so we are = >>> really dependent on helpful collaboration from those who are being >>> effected. >> Drm2 is not required. My current laptop is 5 years old, an HD3000. The= previous one is 13 years old, i915. Both work perfectly with drm-current= on 13-current. Franky, I don't see what the fuss is about. >> >> > My Dell Latitude D530 running i386 freebsd, which used the > i915kms.ko now locks up solid with drm-legacy-kmod. The PAE vs > non-PAE i386/conf/pmap.h merger in r342567 broke drm-legacy-kmod. > It seems that Niclas has provided a patch that fixes the building > of drm-legacy-kmod. > > Doing a bisection on /usr/src commits is fairly slow as it > takes a day to build world/kernel and the minimum set of ports > need to fire up Xorg. r343543 and earlier appear to work fine > with drm-legacy-kmod. So it's not only a build error, it's also a runtime bug that would have happened even with drm2 in base? Hmm.. > > I have now lost 2 weeks of hacking time that could have been spent > on the missing C99 complex math routines. Yeah it sucks when you have to get your hands dirty and actually contribute yourself to keep the code you use alive and no one else does it for you... How many hours do you think we have lost dealing with all the whining and complaining on the mailing list where we instead could have done productive work? > Yeah, I know very few > people care about numerical simulations on FreeBSD.=20 > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 19:18:11 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A945914FA160; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:18:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 787346E737; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:18:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1JJI84N003134 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:18:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1JJI8f0003128; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:18:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:18:07 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Johannes Lundberg Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190219191807.GA2941@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com> <20190219173554.GA1066@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 787346E737 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.10 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.07)[ip: (0.13), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.19), asn: 73(0.09), country: US(-0.07)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.87)[0.871,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.974,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.50)[0.497,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:18:11 -0000 On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 06:59:26PM +0000, Johannes Lundberg wrote: > > On 2/19/19 5:35 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 08:17:48AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: >>> >>> Drm2 is not required. My current laptop is 5 years old, an HD3000. The previous one is 13 years old, i915. Both work perfectly with drm-current on 13-current. Franky, I don't see what the fuss is about. >>> >>> >> My Dell Latitude D530 running i386 freebsd, which used the >> i915kms.ko now locks up solid with drm-legacy-kmod. The PAE vs >> non-PAE i386/conf/pmap.h merger in r342567 broke drm-legacy-kmod. >> It seems that Niclas has provided a patch that fixes the building >> of drm-legacy-kmod. >> >> Doing a bisection on /usr/src commits is fairly slow as it >> takes a day to build world/kernel and the minimum set of ports >> need to fire up Xorg. r343543 and earlier appear to work fine >> with drm-legacy-kmod. > > So it's not only a build error, it's also a runtime bug that would have > happened even with drm2 in base? Hmm.. It appears that that's the case. The likely candidates are r343564(+65 for missing header), r343566, and r343567. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 19:06:58 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7724A14F9CA6; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:06:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B30A6DD67; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:06:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id wAj3gI0SInBo4wAj5gKUBg; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:06:46 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=J8fUEzvS c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=CFTnQlWoA9kA:10 a=H2chl1sJAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=14nd0HSAzgTfDkdeeb4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=1LKL4F7LEIE-fDNXaEJ9:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from android-68f84e02b5988183.esitwifi.local (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C4BA9576; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:06:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:47:08 -0800 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <20190219173554.GA1066@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com> <20190219173554.GA1066@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Steve Kargl CC: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Pete Wright , "Rodney W. Grimes" , Warner Losh , Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , Vladimir Kondratyev From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfH7EbJlg27ZeAJHZdUpuI1k1CbLIZFQ6pz8EalFybzlC89KmE4KogvkI8rd3yugh+haJGMsfFKw1hjJ7Gfh3nHfvWUwAXPnG8trn66I7eGITcD0f0UZ4 jjQHJU6KbbxW6Ldtb5Lda6Z2HB5gNWw8IqjggNsiHM6nBIu2gmMqOc8Csr0eZYRq51EWj+1LSUlFLFOHbRBZNHwjDXa15az0AYBRqATNEXwt/NTjvz3HcLu6 l3pTz0ZMaz4Ept9mkhsOG8nMLF026zjSegNvvs5K2T2kOGqXSI4D+jj8efm3MPRvyTm4KqKpx+6peBHT6HWwj6tDOzBw64HuwPEJfuFc9be9uH9uJksmG7ky 0mi1moYN433Sg2WTS6hgFiBiUMT2CYUKraDLLiklGRvE2Zu+G2zrgPwY3NFwGeUnMJ7+ozgeB5Pv6pHdkZamRKHz3YwNW3/lIM+u/QKSuejZ4Ho6oy5DMtxj bC/+0+vgNNngbCTUOvD2T3ylWaaPq8sQzG5NkA== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8B30A6DD67 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.03 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.93)[ip: (-4.98), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.59), asn: 6327(-2.02), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.883,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[11]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[137.136.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[233.154.66.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11, 17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 20:11:10 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:06:58 -0000 On February 19, 2019 9:35:54 AM PST, Steve Kargl wrote: >On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 08:17:48AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: >> On February 18, 2019 9:17:37 AM PST, Pete Wright > wrote: >> > >> > >> >On 2/18/19 8:50 AM, Rodney W=2E Grimes wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W=2E Grimes < >> >>> >> >>> I don't know=2E I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything >> >newer >> >>> than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the >> >old way >> >>> is broken and doesn't work=2E >> >> But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that >5 >> >year >> >> old hardware that are totally happy with the intree DRM2 that is >in >> >stable/12, >> >> and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with >> >thete a >> >> "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit)=2E I know that there >is >> >wip >> >> to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start >> >changing >> >> the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right=2E=20 >Port >> >> up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code >> >from >> >> base would be a much more appropriate path=2E >> >> >> >> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of >things >> >> simply on the "5 year old" basis=2E Not everyone, and infact few >now >> >> a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware, >> >> giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5 >> >> years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low=2E >> >I've put a lot of effort helping test and document how to get a >usable=20 >> >desktop environment on a modern laptop=2E=C2=A0 there were two issues = which > >> >motivated me to do this: >> > >> >1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online >were=20 >> >using macOS as their primary desktop environment=2E=C2=A0 when compari= ng >this=20 >> >to the OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it >> >did=20 >> >explain the stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem=2E=C2=A0 people >seemed=20 >> >afraid to touch things due the brittle nature of its hardware >support=2E >>=20 >> I noticed this too=2E And every time it struck me as odd=2E >>=20 >> > >> >2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty=2E >> >fortunately=20 >> >there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - >but >> > >> >they were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless > >> >from a FreeBSD perspective=2E >>=20 >> Which is why removing drm2 was necessary=2E=20 >>=20 >> > >> >after trying to get traction to update the in-tree drm subsystem i >was=20 >> >lucky enough to sync up with the graphics team which was working on=20 >> >syncing things up with modern hardware support=2E=C2=A0 because of tha= t i'm >> >now=20 >> >able to get my small startup pretty much all on board with FreeBSD=2E= =C2=A0 >i=20 >> >use it on my workstations as well as on or server infrastructure=20 >> >(physical and AWS)=2E=C2=A0 i would consider this a success for our >community=20 >> >as it's opened up the eyes to a whole new generation of devs to >> >FreeBSD=2E >> > >> >one thing missing from all of these arguments is real data=2E=C2=A0 ho= w >many=20 >> >people are on haswell era hardware?=C2=A0 i can tell from my experienc= e >the=20 >> >past several years the number of people who have post-haswell gear >seem >> > >> >to be more numerous, or at least more vocal (and frankly easier to >work >> > >> >with while squashing bugs)=2E >> > >> >i can also say that personally it would be great to improve support >for >> > >> >systems requiring drm2 - but that gear is hard to come by, so we are > >> >really dependent on helpful collaboration from those who are being >> >effected=2E >>=20 >> Drm2 is not required=2E My current laptop is 5 years old, an HD3000=2E >The previous one is 13 years old, i915=2E Both work perfectly with >drm-current on 13-current=2E Franky, I don't see what the fuss is about= =2E >>=20 >>=20 > >My Dell Latitude D530 running i386 freebsd, which used the >i915kms=2Eko now locks up solid with drm-legacy-kmod=2E The PAE vs >non-PAE i386/conf/pmap=2Eh merger in r342567 broke drm-legacy-kmod=2E >It seems that Niclas has provided a patch that fixes the building >of drm-legacy-kmod=2E > >Doing a bisection on /usr/src commits is fairly slow as it >takes a day to build world/kernel and the minimum set of ports >need to fire up Xorg=2E r343543 and earlier appear to work fine >with drm-legacy-kmod=2E > >I have now lost 2 weeks of hacking time that could have been spent >on the missing C99 complex math routines=2E Yeah, I know very few >people care about numerical simulations on FreeBSD=2E=20 Going down an unexpected rabbit hole is frustrating=2E --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 20:45:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1D814D7978 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 20:44:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bwidawsk@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D05472B84; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 20:44:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bwidawsk@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (unknown [134.134.139.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bwidawsk) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28DA719C64; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 20:44:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bwidawsk@freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:44:57 -0800 From: Ben Widawsky To: Milan Obuch Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: est on newer CPU Message-ID: <20190219204457.4lliz3d4ycat7jgx@smtp.freebsd.org> References: <20190218180119.137afd06@zeta.dino.sk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190218180119.137afd06@zeta.dino.sk> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8D05472B84 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.96 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.962,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:2610:1c1:1::/48, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 20:45:00 -0000 On 19-02-18 18:01:19, Milan Obuch wrote: > Hi, > > I have currently installed FreeBSD on HP gen10 server. With an > exception of HP RAID controller, needs to be switched to SATA mode, > everything went well (OK, I did some errors so it was a bit of > trials-errors but basically no problem). > > Now I found there is not working powerd - in dmesg > > est: CPU supports Enhanced Speedstep, but is not recognized. > est: cpu_vendor GenuineIntel, msr 20b600002500 > device_attach: est0 attach returned 6 > > CPU is > > CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Gold G5400 CPU @ 3.70GHz (3696.18-MHz K8-class CPU) > > Actual system version is > > 12.0-STABLE FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE r344230 > > Is there something I can do to get est recognize this CPU and get > working powerd? > > Regards, > Milan To start with, can you try hw.est.msr_info=1 Also, is acpi_perf being loaded? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 21:13:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEDED14D9B0E for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:13:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bblister@gmail.com) Received: from n6.nabble.com (n6.nabble.com [162.255.23.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120E674210 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:13:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bblister@gmail.com) Received: from n6.nabble.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by n6.nabble.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FDD8C6F4E42 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:13:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:13:39 -0700 (MST) From: BBlister To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> Subject: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 120E674210 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 162.255.23.37 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of bblister@gmail.com) smtp.mailfrom=bblister@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.90 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.65)[0.647,0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.40)[0.398,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.61)[0.608,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[37.23.255.162.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(0.15)[ip: (0.65), ipnet: 162.255.20.0/22(0.16), asn: 21624(0.04), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21624, ipnet:162.255.20.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:13:41 -0000 HI, During a security auditing on one FreeBSD 11.2 server I noticed that something was listening on a tcp4 and tcp6 port. This could not be traced back using lsof or sockstat. sockstat returned ? for the process name, and lsof did not list the port opened. The port was opened because i could telnet to it. I opened a thread at freebsd-questions (Cannot identify process of listening port 600/tcp6). You can find the archive of that thread here: http://freebsd.1045724.x6.nabble.com/Cannot-identify-process-of-listening-port-600-tcp6-td6314916.html After many trials, I found out that these ports were opened by rpc.locked. Killing that process removed the two listening ports. Restarting the process, opened two new random ports bellow 1024 that could not be traced back using all FreeBSD tools that I know to the userland process. And here is my question: How is this happening? What magic trick did rpc.lockd process utilizes and hides itself from security auditing tools like lsof or sockstat? Why rpc.lockd is the only process that hides itself from locating what ports it has opened? Is there any other tool except lsof/sockstat that can backtrace the listening port to the process rpc.locked? but the most important question: Can this trickery being exploited by a malicious process and open listening ports without being traced using lsof/sockstat? Yours valuable thoughts are most welcome. Thanks. -- Sent from: http://freebsd.1045724.x6.nabble.com/freebsd-hackers-f4034256.html From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 21:25:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B253414DA097 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:25:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C82D74A75 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:24:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id g2so15890610lfh.11 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:24:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xcAmJw7OPYkfkSQon5sA54UZXYsMazG73HUG6EAHOB8=; b=UpDeURHt1fvsG3GCZ1FJOIDl3sNfYextoX/j3OQFanfJBlYngrWgkGeyynG4O3uXZH JbkmlImxO0XzXuXLgQrZidkxr00W8H+UBUR0hUlmP01rcJ94p3QSDZFj3f99Q9c49mHI DlZ2vVclNS48SaNUoEOe2WVxr8IqWK/iUFFGt/NeJOMvNUCQ9lHH91H0IzyUt/e4CEFW QFrS/AetmR5WWlbWfEFoU/xBqE5iEZTslIV1sIKNKZ+EO5mRPuav0NoYPEwyQTnhfoL4 g4tr7pKbeJeHvNT62FksFMc/jsfdByE1NuA3fLetRdML2lujJqB692+d1l2x+UF+1sri sVyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xcAmJw7OPYkfkSQon5sA54UZXYsMazG73HUG6EAHOB8=; b=a2VcwWmwKYg9kCiV2Q9NwcNBV4dJlGK5La+XlpRte6FmQZRVQeJC/grCfG/BxoBnUw jOvYkPPsFd8v/GXrOV8QfCsR5M7lT8D3RLMGCv79LObv8sPZz25VZLJV0erWPd55LcAx pYsR7mPEp7aM5AYbPyx8Kzs2GH7Y9mnmsOCmFi7/Jze58fWkP7OhuWu4adyQV38BqA3S I47tF4KTEeYQmHhI7LNQdfG+w6GFBfZ0JvZY99rbAnUhlmT3seXUx97wjbYuj4dm3EUS +kRWdakB2N4UEujohY/lP0iRC2FR6a5Eqfb1hYmAzT14yxR37oIDWSnhHp7eeilK+KYa ejIw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYbi7NNnFpvBe3yyfD+NguEr9po/aCcN8QJMtYbP2iVJ3C42Qxg VdYQ7BNAPTBHu2rE8WbH4m1YnDlDMh9oVYpNXVBBTg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Ibq8MYdox3BhlVgNcGqr5a5HTMyX3gXSq8Gxiba0EPOPGzgxfn8tdeuczChcWUiH9NOWVGzGe+/CSD4P1nyHJQ= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4b8c:: with SMTP id y134mr16311250lfa.73.1550611497941; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:24:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> From: Freddie Cash Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:24:46 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? To: BBlister Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8C82D74A75 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=UpDeURHt; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fjwcash@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::131 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=fjwcash@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.65 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.922,0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-2.71)[ip: (-9.25), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.27), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:25:00 -0000 On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 1:15 PM BBlister wrote: > During a security auditing on one FreeBSD 11.2 server I noticed that > something was listening on a tcp4 and tcp6 port. This could not be traced > back using lsof or sockstat. sockstat returned ? for the process name, and > lsof did not list the port opened. The port was opened because i could > telnet to it. > > I opened a thread at freebsd-questions (Cannot identify process of > listening > port 600/tcp6). You can find the archive of that thread here: > > http://freebsd.1045724.x6.nabble.com/Cannot-identify-process-of-listening-port-600-tcp6-td6314916.html > > After many trials, I found out that these ports were opened by rpc.locked. > Killing that process removed the two listening ports. Restarting the > process, opened two new random ports bellow 1024 that could not be traced > back using all FreeBSD tools that I know to the userland process. > > And here is my question: How is this happening? What magic trick did > rpc.lockd process utilizes and hides itself from security auditing tools > like lsof or sockstat? Why rpc.lockd is the only process that hides itself > from locating what ports it has opened? Is there any other tool except > lsof/sockstat that can backtrace the listening port to the process > rpc.locked? > > but the most important question: Can this trickery being exploited by a > malicious process and open listening ports without being traced using > lsof/sockstat? > While it doesn't take you from a socket/port to a process, does procstat at least show you the sockets that rpc.lockd has open? Something like: procstat -f Although, one could probably run the following to get from the socket/port number to the process: procstat -f -a | grep 600 -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 21:34:49 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B20A14DA63D for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:34:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amshafer64@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7ADA75359 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:34:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amshafer64@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id v139so624883qkb.12 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:34:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=GYFaYNAiBiF1Ug4lmGd8BmyJUMaSg3/Ni6czf08zX9k=; b=ZfO8/FwY4nxd7LLKOcAHRLzfHPyNeOJXKlofWcg3yRGAu3606w6WYhjdw7qqGeAEd1 BCuotFHTtBkYZSi1OhnTPf68wvwQj6LQwnuhdn7GgRU2rAS8VvaPnodgW9xUfnqhl7pt WHs/xR/6Dnz2BpnWcad+1+KNj86J0BBe+JNgQmZkKD1LbUy/9omXPC08PB7dCkrqpuBJ tcXGlYoCeGuGlEI9ynsPmD3Ln4HaenROmO1DpIYhhF7naFaTG8OSH0EkA91R3KyZ/hdz sec1Qr6JVJxImkIbaN6Qy1iCZ0QGMqIrCYoaJD9R7UVPzeoPuf4McykW8g4qgW1lNg3x iklQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=GYFaYNAiBiF1Ug4lmGd8BmyJUMaSg3/Ni6czf08zX9k=; b=LrDf6RW3qA3xRrmSEP8fcfoc0clIc5mX77MiDI5+siQ70jGyGJlzIujAeyYmt68514 D0CvURSAkVsfsvD6HcFcvxURMzK1s3W4e2qa+v3pZEYoqnLWZw+IzGLw4UgZeJf+9+mi k1d4tkN/o0jAvlAyom+CzCCr+HIcmK5sBzlN690UD6gAFFMqE0mqEbH+QVkTpx/i0zb6 UHG1Zhy1ewfB/T7Bt3We87LCMrXSzFf5rQy4+ZJPle/cOIgGVjtLpn2JTF95bsZVVbJ7 c8exIxWpXyRpeWDdyhbqLo0wdWjRceECQ8rFk+y9YsrtkdKbPhNMz4tXOj+r5cxfa+hn UJlA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubSO70bpfVmvBCdviu/K6XYw4NaK5oEXPcilB8K9QCbgwqTcz4a kyNhWD4NXyMFBj6JWh2p3H9nAlLI X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZZLKAd1Faog8tY8gQWoXtPihsM08Mo/qm1h/YesxQ9Xa4Bldb2I7oBOa6nZTOiFOC407SCJQ== X-Received: by 2002:a37:8d01:: with SMTP id p1mr22779260qkd.91.1550612088603; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:34:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([178.128.156.9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k5sm11034646qti.41.2019.02.19.13.34.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:34:47 -0800 (PST) From: Austin Shafer To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vm_page_t's do not appear initialized In-Reply-To: <20190219093745.GM2420@kib.kiev.ua> References: <86lg2cz4pn.fsf@triplebuff.com> <20190219093745.GM2420@kib.kiev.ua> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:34:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E7ADA75359 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:34:49 -0000 Konstantin Belousov writes: > I do not know exactly what are you doing, but problems with > PHYS_TO_VM_PAGE() on the framebuffers pages usually indicate incorrect > (or missed) usage of the vm_phys_fictitious_reg_range() KPI. Thanks! That did the trick, I had no idea I needed to call that first. There are plenty of descriptions of vm pages and objects online, but are there any docs for the physical allocator portion of virtual memory? Specifically about vm_phys.c/h? "The design/implementation of FreeBSD" and the handbook both focus on vm pages. Thanks again for your help! Austin Shafer From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 21:38:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B58B14DA7EF for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:38:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:1::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smarthost1.sentex.ca", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34B977550B for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:38:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [192.168.43.26] (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x1JLcpLH032329; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:38:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? To: Freddie Cash , BBlister Cc: FreeBSD Hackers References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> From: Mike Tancsa Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mike@sentex.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBEzcA24BCACpwI/iqOrs0GfQSfhA1v6Z8AcXVeGsRyKEKUpxoOYxXWc2z3vndbYlIP6E YJeifzKhS/9E+VjhhICaepLHfw865TDTUPr5D0Ed+edSsKjlnDtb6hfNJC00P7eoiuvi85TW F/gAxRY269A5d856bYrzLbkWp2lKUR3Bg6NnORtflGzx9ZWAltZbjYjjRqegPv0EQNYcHqWo eRpXilEo1ahT6nmOU8V7yEvT2j4wlLcQ6qg7w+N/vcBvyd/weiwHU+vTQ9mT61x5/wUrQhdw 2gJHeQXeDGMJV49RT2EEz+QVxaf477eyWsdQzPVjAKRMT3BVdK8WvpYAEfBAbXmkboOxABEB AAG0HG1pa2UgdGFuY3NhIDxtaWtlQHNlbnRleC5jYT6JATgEEwECACIFAkzcA24CGwMGCwkI BwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEJXHwM2kc8rX+sMH/2V6pTBKsQ5mpWWLgs6wVP2k BC+6r/YKNXv9Rw/PrC6+9hTbgA+sSjJ+8gxsCbJsOQXZrxF0x3l9oYdYfuKcwdwXFX1/FS8p HfBeDkmlH+dI709xT9wgrR4dS5aMmKp0scPrXPIAKiYVOHjOlNItcLYTEEWEFBepheEVsgmk GrNbcrHwOx/u4igUQ8vcpyXPyUki+BsftPw8ZQvBU887igh0OxaCR8AurJppQ5UQd63r81cX E1ZjoFoWCaGK/SjPb/OhpYpu5swoZIhOxQbn7OtakYPsDd5t2A5KhvjI8BMTnd5Go+2xsCmr jlIEq8Bi29gCcfQUvNiClevi13ifmnm5AQ0ETNwDbgEIALWGNJHRAhpd0A4vtd3G0oRqMBcM FGThQr3qORmEBTPPEomTdBaHcn+Xl+3YUvTBD/67/mutWBwgp2R5gQOSqcM7axvgMSHbKqBL 9sd1LsLw0UT2O5AYxv3EwzhG84pwRg3XcUqvWA4lA8tIj/1q4Jzi5qOkg1zxq4W9qr9oiYK5 bBR638JUvr3eHMaz/Nz+sDVFgwHmXZj3M6aE5Ce9reCGbvrae7H5D5PPvtT3r22X8SqfVAiO TFKedCf/6jbSOedPN931FJQYopj9P6b3m0nI3ZiCDVSqeyOAIBLzm+RBUIU3brzoxDhYR8pz CJc2sK8l6YjqivPakrD86bFDff8AEQEAAYkBHwQYAQIACQUCTNwDbgIbDAAKCRCVx8DNpHPK 1+iQB/99aqNtez9ZTBWELj269La8ntuRx6gCpzfPXfn6SDIfTItDxTh1hrdRVP5QNGGF5wus N4EMwXouskva1hbFX3Pv72csYSxxEJXjW16oV8WK4KjKXoskLg2RyRP4uXqL7Mp2ezNtVY5F 9nu3fj4ydpHCSaqKy5xd70A8D50PfZsFgkrsa5gdQhPiGGEdxhq/XSeAAnZ4uVLJKarH+mj5 MEhgZPEBWkGrbDZpezl9qbFcUem/uT9x8FYT/JIztMVh9qDcdP5tzANW5J7nvgXjska+VFGY ryZK4SPDczh74mn6GI/+RBi7OUzXXPgpPBrhS5FByjwCqjjsSpTjTds+NGIY Organization: Sentex Communications Message-ID: <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 16:38:50 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; 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R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 21:38:53 -0000 T24gMi8xOS8yMDE5IDQ6MjQgUE0sIEZyZWRkaWUgQ2FzaCB3cm90ZToNCj4gV2hpbGUgaXQg ZG9lc24ndCB0YWtlIHlvdSBmcm9tIGEgc29ja2V0L3BvcnQgdG8gYSBwcm9jZXNzLCBkb2Vz DQo+IHByb2NzdGF0IGF0DQo+IGxlYXN0IHNob3cgeW91IHRoZSBzb2NrZXRzIHRoYXQgcnBj LmxvY2tkIGhhcyBvcGVuPw0KPg0KPiBTb21ldGhpbmcgbGlrZTogIHByb2NzdGF0IC1mIDxw aWQtb2YtcnBjLmxvY2tkPg0KPg0KPiBBbHRob3VnaCwgb25lIGNvdWxkIHByb2JhYmx5IHJ1 biB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIHRvIGdldCBmcm9tIHRoZSBzb2NrZXQvcG9ydA0KPiBudW1iZXIg dG8gdGhlIHByb2Nlc3M6ICBwcm9jc3RhdCAtZiAtYSB8IGdyZXAgNjAwDQoNCkl0IGRvZXNu dCBzZWVtIHRvLsKgIHNvY2tzdGF0IHNob3dzDQoNCiMgc29ja3N0YXQgfCBncmVwICJePyIN Cj/CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCA/wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgID/CoMKgwqDCoCA/wqAgdGNw NMKgwqAgKjo4NDXCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAqOioNCj/CoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoCA/wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgID/CoMKgwqDCoCA/wqAgdWRwNMKgwqAg Kjo4MzPCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAqOioNCj/CoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoCA/wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgID/CoMKgwqDCoCA/wqAgdWRwNMKgwqAgKjoyMDQ5 wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgICo6Kg0KP8KgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgID/C oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgP8KgwqDCoMKgID/CoCB1ZHA2wqDCoCAqOjk3NsKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgICo6Kg0KP8KgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgID/CoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgP8KgwqDCoMKgID/CoCB0Y3A2wqDCoCAqOjg4MsKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgICo6Kg0KP8KgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgID/CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqAgP8KgwqDCoMKgID/CoCB1ZHA0wqDCoCAqOirCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgKjoqDQo/wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgP8KgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oCA/wqDCoMKgwqAgP8KgIHVkcDbCoMKgICo6OTM4wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqAgKjoqDQo/wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgP8KgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCA/wqDC oMKgwqAgP8KgIHVkcDbCoMKgICo6MjA0OcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oCAqOioNCg0KIyBwcm9jc3RhdCAtZiAyNDQ5DQoNCsKgIFBJRCBDT01NwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIEZEIFQgViBGTEFHU8KgwqDCoCBSRUbCoCBPRkZTRVQgUFJP IE5BTUXCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoA0KwqAyNDQ5IHJwYy5sb2NrZMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAg dGV4dCB2IHIgci0tLS0tLS3CoMKgIC3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgLSAtwqDCoA0KL3Vzci9zYmlu L3JwYy5sb2NrZA0KwqAyNDQ5IHJwYy5sb2NrZMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCBjd2QgdiBk IHItLS0tLS0twqDCoCAtwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIC0gLcKgwqAgL8KgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgDQrCoDI0NDkgcnBjLmxvY2tkwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCByb290 IHYgZCByLS0tLS0tLcKgwqAgLcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAtIC3CoMKgIC/CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoA0KwqAyNDQ5IHJwYy5sb2NrZMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqAgMCB2IGMgcnctLS0tLS3CoMKgIDPCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgMCAtwqDCoCAvZGV2L251 bGzCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgDQrCoDI0NDkgcnBjLmxvY2tkwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoCAxIHYgYyBydy0tLS0tLcKgwqAgM8KgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAwIC3CoMKgIC9kZXYvbnVs bMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqANCsKgMjQ0OSBycGMubG9ja2TCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgIDIgdiBjIHJ3LS0tLS0twqDCoCAzwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIDAgLcKgwqAgL2Rldi9udWxs wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoA0KwqAyNDQ5IHJwYy5sb2NrZMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqAgMyBzIC0gcnctLS0tLS3CoMKgIDHCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgMCBVREQgL3Zhci9ydW4vbG9n cHJpdg0KDQrCoCMgc29ja3N0YXQgfCBncmVwIDg0NQ0KP8KgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgID/CoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgP8KgwqDCoMKgID/CoCB0Y3A0wqDCoCAqOjg0NcKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgICo6Kg0KIyBraWxsIDI0NDkNCiMgc29ja3N0YXQgfCBn cmVwIDg0NQ0KIw0KDQoNCg0KLS0gDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCk1pa2UgVGFu Y3NhLCB0ZWwgKzEgNTE5IDY1MSAzNDAwIHgyMDMNClNlbnRleCBDb21tdW5pY2F0aW9ucywg bWlrZUBzZW50ZXgubmV0DQpQcm92aWRpbmcgSW50ZXJuZXQgc2VydmljZXMgc2luY2UgMTk5 NCB3d3cuc2VudGV4Lm5ldA0KQ2FtYnJpZGdlLCBPbnRhcmlvIENhbmFkYSAgIA0KDQo= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 22:04:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773D314DB853 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:04:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFA7376804 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:04:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1JM45pa001743 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:04:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1JM45TX001742; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:04:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:04:05 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Mike Tancsa Cc: Freddie Cash , BBlister , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? Message-ID: <20190219220404.GA1668@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DFA7376804 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.95 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.85)[0.852,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.96)[0.956,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.38)[0.382,0]; IP_SCORE(0.07)[ip: (0.13), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.19), asn: 73(0.09), country: US(-0.07)]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:04:09 -0000 On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 04:38:50PM -0500, Mike Tancsa wrote: > On 2/19/2019 4:24 PM, Freddie Cash wrote: > > While it doesn't take you from a socket/port to a process, does > > procstat at > > least show you the sockets that rpc.lockd has open? > > > > Something like: procstat -f > > > > Although, one could probably run the following to get from the socket/port > > number to the process: procstat -f -a | grep 600 > > It doesnt seem to.  sockstat shows > > # sockstat | grep "^?" > ?        ?          ?     ?  tcp4   *:845                 *:* > ?        ?          ?     ?  udp4   *:833                 *:* > ?        ?          ?     ?  udp4   *:2049                *:* > ?        ?          ?     ?  udp6   *:976                 *:* > ?        ?          ?     ?  tcp6   *:882                 *:* > ?        ?          ?     ?  udp4   *:*                   *:* > ?        ?          ?     ?  udp6   *:938                 *:* > ?        ?          ?     ?  udp6   *:2049                *:* The sockstat(8) manuals states If a socket is not associated with any file descriptor, the first four columns have no meaning. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 10:26:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B34414EE722 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 10:26:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from mailhost.netlabit.sk (mailhost.netlabit.sk [84.245.65.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6D017136F; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 10:26:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from wind.dino.sk (a107.b1.elvisdk.sk [85.248.25.107]) (AUTH: LOGIN milan) by mailhost.netlabit.sk with ESMTPA; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:26:24 +0100 id 00DED012.5C6D2B50.000016FA Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 12:23:47 +0100 From: Milan Obuch To: Ben Widawsky Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: est on newer CPU Message-ID: <20190220122347.64ee649c@wind.dino.sk> In-Reply-To: <20190219204457.4lliz3d4ycat7jgx@smtp.freebsd.org> References: <20190218180119.137afd06@zeta.dino.sk> <20190219204457.4lliz3d4ycat7jgx@smtp.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.14.1 (GTK+ 2.24.29; i386-portbld-freebsd9.3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D6D017136F X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-hackers@dino.sk designates 84.245.65.72 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-hackers@dino.sk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.47 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dino.sk]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.78)[ip: (-7.32), ipnet: 84.245.64.0/18(-3.66), asn: 16160(-2.93), country: SK(0.03)]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.dino.sk]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[72.65.245.84.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.38)[-0.383,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16160, ipnet:84.245.64.0/18, country:SK]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 10:26:34 -0000 On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:44:57 -0800 Ben Widawsky wrote: > On 19-02-18 18:01:19, Milan Obuch wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have currently installed FreeBSD on HP gen10 server. With an > > exception of HP RAID controller, needs to be switched to SATA mode, > > everything went well (OK, I did some errors so it was a bit of > > trials-errors but basically no problem). > > > > Now I found there is not working powerd - in dmesg > > > > est: CPU supports Enhanced Speedstep, but is not recognized. > > est: cpu_vendor GenuineIntel, msr 20b600002500 > > device_attach: est0 attach returned 6 > > > > CPU is > > > > CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Gold G5400 CPU @ 3.70GHz (3696.18-MHz > > K8-class CPU) > > > > Actual system version is > > > > 12.0-STABLE FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE r344230 > > > > Is there something I can do to get est recognize this CPU and get > > working powerd? > > > > Regards, > > Milan > > To start with, can you try > hw.est.msr_info=1 > Well, I tried and put this line into /boot/loader.conf, but the result was endless boot loop. No idea what is wrong... it just quickly loops, most probably inserted line is causing system reset. > Also, is acpi_perf being loaded? > No, there is no such file in /boot/kernel at all. Also, I tried 13-CURRENT last snapshot, it boot OK, but the net result is the same - est could not attach, because CPU is not recognized. On another system, with different Intel CPU, it works. Milan From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 10:34:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E3F14EEBF4 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 10:34:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from mailhost.netlabit.sk (mailhost.netlabit.sk [84.245.65.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFB6D7192C; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 10:34:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@dino.sk) Received: from wind.dino.sk (a107.b1.elvisdk.sk [85.248.25.107]) (AUTH: LOGIN milan) by mailhost.netlabit.sk with ESMTPA; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:34:38 +0100 id 00DED012.5C6D2D3E.0000182A Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 12:32:08 +0100 From: Milan Obuch To: Ben Widawsky Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: est on newer CPU Message-ID: <20190220123208.7fbd0369@wind.dino.sk> In-Reply-To: <20190220122347.64ee649c@wind.dino.sk> References: <20190218180119.137afd06@zeta.dino.sk> <20190219204457.4lliz3d4ycat7jgx@smtp.freebsd.org> <20190220122347.64ee649c@wind.dino.sk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.14.1 (GTK+ 2.24.29; i386-portbld-freebsd9.3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: EFB6D7192C X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-hackers@dino.sk designates 84.245.65.72 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-hackers@dino.sk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.59 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dino.sk]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.92)[ip: (-7.69), ipnet: 84.245.64.0/18(-3.85), asn: 16160(-3.08), country: SK(0.02)]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.dino.sk]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[72.65.245.84.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.36)[-0.363,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16160, ipnet:84.245.64.0/18, country:SK]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 10:34:42 -0000 On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 12:23:47 +0100 Milan Obuch wrote: > On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:44:57 -0800 > Ben Widawsky wrote: > > > On 19-02-18 18:01:19, Milan Obuch wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have currently installed FreeBSD on HP gen10 server. With an > > > exception of HP RAID controller, needs to be switched to SATA > > > mode, everything went well (OK, I did some errors so it was a bit > > > of trials-errors but basically no problem). > > > > > > Now I found there is not working powerd - in dmesg > > > > > > est: CPU supports Enhanced Speedstep, but is not recognized. > > > est: cpu_vendor GenuineIntel, msr 20b600002500 > > > device_attach: est0 attach returned 6 > > > > > > CPU is > > > > > > CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Gold G5400 CPU @ 3.70GHz (3696.18-MHz > > > K8-class CPU) > > > Also, boot in verbose mode does not reveal any additional info regarding est. Milan From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 11:01:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0CBE14EF6DD for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:00:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D17272439; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:00:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:c4ea:bd49:619b:6cb3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E3DAF1FA01; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from leaf.local (unknown [88.212.184.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6291B186F; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:00:56 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/6291B186F; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: cperciva@freebsd.org From: Matthew Seaman Subject: Amazon AMIs Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:00:44 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5D17272439 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.94 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.942,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:96.47.64.0/20, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:01:00 -0000 Hi, I've been playing with setting up a very simple website on AWS to do speedtesting for the ISP I work for[*]. Naturally I used the FreeBSD 12.0 AMIs. The result with the default m4.large instance was actually pretty dissapointing: speedtest:~:% iperf3 -p 443 -P 3 -c test1.lightspeed.gigaclear.com Connecting to host test1.lightspeed.gigaclear.com, port 443 [ 4] local 46.227.144.15 port 38926 connected to 3.8.245.243 port 443 [ 6] local 46.227.144.15 port 38928 connected to 3.8.245.243 port 443 [ 8] local 46.227.144.15 port 38930 connected to 3.8.245.243 port 443 [...] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth Retr [ 4] 0.00-10.00 sec 177 MBytes 148 Mbits/sec 123 sender [ 4] 0.00-10.00 sec 176 MBytes 147 Mbits/sec receiver [ 6] 0.00-10.00 sec 281 MBytes 236 Mbits/sec 155 sender [ 6] 0.00-10.00 sec 280 MBytes 235 Mbits/sec receiver [ 8] 0.00-10.00 sec 206 MBytes 173 Mbits/sec 118 sender [ 8] 0.00-10.00 sec 205 MBytes 172 Mbits/sec receiver [SUM] 0.00-10.00 sec 664 MBytes 557 Mbits/sec 396 sender [SUM] 0.00-10.00 sec 661 MBytes 554 Mbits/sec receiver Couldn't even saturate a 1G link. So I tried one of the newer m5.large instance instead. As well as being rather newer and better integrated with FreeBSD (m5 has if_ena interfaces, nvd disk devices rather than m4 which has ixv and xbd disguised as ada for the root device but not for additional drives), they're actually slightly cheaper for the same nominal CPU count, RAM and disk: speedtest:~:% iperf3 -p 443 -P 3 -c test0.lightspeed.gigaclear.com Connecting to host test0.lightspeed.gigaclear.com, port 443 [ 4] local 46.227.144.15 port 54264 connected to 18.130.169.5 port 443 [ 6] local 46.227.144.15 port 54266 connected to 18.130.169.5 port 443 [ 8] local 46.227.144.15 port 54268 connected to 18.130.169.5 port 443 [...] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth Retr [ 4] 0.00-10.00 sec 1.90 GBytes 1.63 Gbits/sec 2484 sender [ 4] 0.00-10.00 sec 1.89 GBytes 1.63 Gbits/sec receiver [ 6] 0.00-10.00 sec 1.87 GBytes 1.60 Gbits/sec 3381 sender [ 6] 0.00-10.00 sec 1.86 GBytes 1.60 Gbits/sec receiver [ 8] 0.00-10.00 sec 1.90 GBytes 1.64 Gbits/sec 3607 sender [ 8] 0.00-10.00 sec 1.90 GBytes 1.63 Gbits/sec receiver [SUM] 0.00-10.00 sec 5.67 GBytes 4.87 Gbits/sec 9472 sender [SUM] 0.00-10.00 sec 5.65 GBytes 4.86 Gbits/sec receiver So, about 2Gb/s with an out-of-the-box configuration and no tuning. Question: Why is m4.large the recommended instance type? Surely we'd be better served and present users with a better experience by recommending an m5 instance as one of the more modern and higher performance types? Cheers, Matthew [*] It's an OfCom requirement here in the UK. If what we sell is described as a 940Mb/s pure fibre connection, then by golly it should be capable of pulling down 940Mb/s even at peak usage times of day[+]. So we need to measure this regularly, which means we need to roll out a bunch of small devices to sit in customer premises and run automated tests downloading large blobs of random data from a website "not on our own network." [+] We can't count packet headers as part of the delivered bandwidth, or this would just be a 1Gb/s service. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 14:02:20 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7E1414F4EFF for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 14:02:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bblister@gmail.com) Received: from n6.nabble.com (n6.nabble.com [162.255.23.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866AB8278D for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 14:02:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bblister@gmail.com) Received: from n6.nabble.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by n6.nabble.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA8AC72DECD for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:02:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:02:17 -0700 (MST) From: BBlister To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1550671337578-0.post@n6.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <20190219220404.GA1668@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> <20190219220404.GA1668@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 866AB8278D X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 162.255.23.37 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of bblister@gmail.com) smtp.mailfrom=bblister@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.64 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.70)[0.697,0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.37)[0.366,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.35)[0.345,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[37.23.255.162.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(0.14)[ip: (0.59), ipnet: 162.255.20.0/22(0.15), asn: 21624(0.04), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21624, ipnet:162.255.20.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 14:02:20 -0000 After one suggestion on the questions list, I used the rpcinfo -p but this does not print every unknown port. For example: # netstat -an | grep -E '874|815' tcp4 0 0 *.815 *.* LISTEN tcp6 0 0 *.874 *.* LISTEN sockstat reports ? # sockstat | grep -E '874|815' ? ? ? ? tcp4 *:815 *:* ? ? ? ? tcp6 *:874 *:* rpcinfo -p reports just one port # rpcinfo -p| grep -E '874|815' 100021 0 tcp 815 nlockmgr 100021 1 tcp 815 nlockmgr 100021 3 tcp 815 nlockmgr 100021 4 tcp 815 nlockmgr The 874/tcp6 which belongs to rpc.lockd does not appear on this list. Is rpcinfo only for IPv4 and if yes,what tool do I use for IPv6 ? The grand question is of course, is there any tool to actually locate the processes that open ports and cannot be identified with sockstat? The second grand question. Why rpc.lockd is a different kind of process that cannot be located from sockstat? Other RPC processes are found using sockstat, as the following printing shows: # rpcinfo -p | grep 2049 100003 2 udp 2049 nfs 100003 3 udp 2049 nfs 100003 2 tcp 2049 nfs 100003 3 tcp 2049 nfs sockstat |grep 2049 root nfsd 41279 5 tcp4 *:2049 *:* root nfsd 41279 6 tcp6 *:2049 *:* nfs is found using rpcinfo and also using sockstat. What rpc.lockd does and it is not found. After 25 years of sysadmin, I find it very strange for Freebsd to not being able to trace a listening port to an executable. -- Sent from: http://freebsd.1045724.x6.nabble.com/freebsd-hackers-f4034256.html From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 15:00:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C1414F6321 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:00:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound1a.eu.mailhop.org (outbound1a.eu.mailhop.org [52.58.109.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4521484423 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:00:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1550674824; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=Zbm6g1gVMCR31zINodQ7DGSZ7hDTdiKSds+BASiUzXM47KNo7ya6Vj0dg/NkpfmkyKVaNs0X+0MMq wlolkl4M2un6VVusV59racYm9zcT9/DTSNppg+mBKWeBLmjmGHKnUBp3o1AxswZ5ER9osudxxnXnbS aaFG0jIQCTEey3jfBSmJ88BePVn1BJRCCX4H92qngupqOwUBJHqNNpYmEbEib7sWIgLZniwtsyv5pF QOejvxLRmhbjWIkgA0ofKapNKzLhtvsEaLy49T3BAnlX7h3TBxkkboiwbzkPslicJPNWrl7bkThUGE VQgzqtmLcEfA3mM0VqK7zWFMzYLgGbg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=dbusCp+vcRolvSHoFQIBkHGsD+q6W61FsOmRmH70dwE=; b=HTxdIlBcQ/zf+IvALHbZG1z3eeoTrI3VvRxStBzBIYOiHyDgpSlCWh817zTEujaOvtn9iNX1uUaJP Hjr6kGTHDO8YglWpl6yDAGmXhc9mRZohVOR4npotXorCNvwKdF5AVadjZ7hn6RKmCRy57YzWIzVps2 liQ4MRBSBkdBS+v3ef8oiurqKN7oxEmY495Jm6WS9vKJ5aPbeTp7eWsis9GwLXvd1pEdrveyUp5vKy DU3URjzmRIuT73FKh4KGFopcY+FPjV+1D4rhYK276S7I5NuvMfzhh50Ed6zes6PMb77QqNnMQ+RCl5 ypt45nKvG7ferQgXjHWDTHxws+MFRWA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound2.eu.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=dbusCp+vcRolvSHoFQIBkHGsD+q6W61FsOmRmH70dwE=; b=EXIK58FVwQ1pap2DY30gs4J533dF3FE4uNJaffky23JoX0SBll//rPZvV+5JWwVnW80IY/FD8f9EY I/tbUgYwO0NOYyaNOnOURTFGzrKUREpXsKO5ACtzVvFumtm3tOcT1jHGSIjgVLoVRSbVvMo6BYu1Tl lG9NkZYZsuiLU0ITMDwgExX8i9xrey/+BvhTUBO+WFtwCtdGGPQv3IcE0st+VTm0NKNRiFjX924GsQ grW88Wg/hyAjhGVoZXApgu97D3JJ2Ilw76m6I6sRUtEp8SmvZhFhFP2i14HAwFbO6V5Hr4N4YVp95f iqIAzv6LX1RrBKKbHQaCsWxK1T5QtpQ== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 3b7e7960-3520-11e9-803b-31925da7267c X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound2.eu.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 3b7e7960-3520-11e9-803b-31925da7267c; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:00:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x1KF0F9o084326; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:00:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <877baa2abd2c062a389b88e66dd67f1fba032e93.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? From: Ian Lepore To: BBlister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:00:15 -0700 In-Reply-To: <1550671337578-0.post@n6.nabble.com> References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> <20190219220404.GA1668@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1550671337578-0.post@n6.nabble.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4521484423 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.973,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:52.58.0.0/15, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:00:32 -0000 On Wed, 2019-02-20 at 07:02 -0700, BBlister wrote: > After one suggestion on the questions list, I used the rpcinfo -p but this > does not print every unknown port. For example: > > # netstat -an | grep -E '874|815' > tcp4 0 0 *.815 *.* LISTEN > tcp6 0 0 *.874 *.* LISTEN > > sockstat reports ? > # sockstat | grep -E '874|815' > ? ? ? ? tcp4 *:815 *:* > ? ? ? ? tcp6 *:874 *:* > > rpcinfo -p reports just one port > # rpcinfo -p| grep -E '874|815' > 100021 0 tcp 815 nlockmgr > 100021 1 tcp 815 nlockmgr > 100021 3 tcp 815 nlockmgr > 100021 4 tcp 815 nlockmgr > > > The 874/tcp6 which belongs to rpc.lockd does not appear on this list. > Is rpcinfo only for IPv4 and if yes,what tool do I use for IPv6 ? > > > > > > The grand question is of course, is there any tool to actually locate the > processes that open ports and cannot be identified with sockstat? > > The second grand question. Why rpc.lockd is a different kind of process that > cannot be located from sockstat? Other RPC processes are found using > sockstat, as the following printing shows: > > # rpcinfo -p | grep 2049 > 100003 2 udp 2049 nfs > 100003 3 udp 2049 nfs > 100003 2 tcp 2049 nfs > 100003 3 tcp 2049 nfs > > > sockstat |grep 2049 > root nfsd 41279 5 tcp4 *:2049 *:* > root nfsd 41279 6 tcp6 *:2049 *:* > > > nfs is found using rpcinfo and also using sockstat. > > What rpc.lockd does and it is not found. After 25 years of sysadmin, I find > it very strange for Freebsd to not being able to trace a listening port to > an executable. The situation here is that the socket is neither opened by nor owned by any userland process. The rpc.lockd implementation is split into a kernel piece and a userland piece, and much of the work is done in- kernel. The in-kernel part of the code contacts the userland daemon part for help when it needs to. So the socket is created by the in-kernel part of lockd, and it is not tied to any file descriptor. Tools which report on userland processes use file descriptors to associate kernel resources with the processes that own them. In this case, it is the kernel itself that owns the socket, so it can't be reported as belonging to any userland process. If you're interested in poking around in the code involved, see nlm_server_main() in src/sys/nlm/nlm_prot_impl.c -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 15:25:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB7E14F6B0C for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:25:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D64B1851B0 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:25:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id wTkNgE1EGMRX3wTkOg2QiB; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:25:21 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TL87tGta c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=CFTnQlWoA9kA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=9I5xiGouAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=ktFps2qMs-QJu-dGGX8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=99Hv1CBdQIQA:10 a=ARFN2YZ7Uv8kHtb7LS-q:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from android-68f84e02b5988183.esitwifi.local (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 565058D6; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:25:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 06:56:49 -0800 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <1550671337578-0.post@n6.nabble.com> References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> <20190219220404.GA1668@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1550671337578-0.post@n6.nabble.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,BBlister From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: <3104E48D-B9A8-46F3-BFB9-8E1CB649882E@cschubert.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfHc54cN36YvUBGG0gsbdciYQ5Yw/q4wUlabCl8VbyJbHi+uv5ZWdB3C52cyka68e/etDFobTjVYPu4vWz1/k92jiizHmeSADy6wBd/ueQ6Kb/5T/bQyN eWeIqVCFqyFcGb5JBI9z1vejCsmyYm6NSncmieJOHSYVibzFj+AeCfuOTPtqVfWR+X31UhEPccHIxrWtEkmeThzhY7FBumKZc0Apcviog0il2hRgIIQiVuJy X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D64B1851B0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.26 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.987,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.06)[ip: (-5.64), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.57), asn: 6327(-2.01), country: CA(-0.09)]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[13.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11, 233.154.66.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:25:31 -0000 On February 20, 2019 6:02:17 AM PST, BBlister wrote: >After one suggestion on the questions list, I used the rpcinfo -p but >this >does not print every unknown port=2E For example: > ># netstat -an | grep -E '874|815'=20 >tcp4 0 0 *=2E815 *=2E* =20 >LISTEN=20 >tcp6 0 0 *=2E874 *=2E* =20 >LISTEN=20 > >sockstat reports ?=20 ># sockstat | grep -E '874|815'=20 >? ? ? ? tcp4 *:815 *:*=20 >? ? ? ? tcp6 *:874 *:*=20 > >rpcinfo -p reports just one port=20 ># rpcinfo -p| grep -E '874|815'=20 > 100021 0 tcp 815 nlockmgr=20 > 100021 1 tcp 815 nlockmgr=20 > 100021 3 tcp 815 nlockmgr=20 > 100021 4 tcp 815 nlockmgr=20 > > >The 874/tcp6 which belongs to rpc=2Elockd does not appear on this list=2E= =20 >Is rpcinfo only for IPv4 and if yes,what tool do I use for IPv6 ?=20 > > > > > >The grand question is of course, is there any tool to actually locate >the >processes that open ports and cannot be identified with sockstat?=20 > >The second grand question=2E Why rpc=2Elockd is a different kind of proce= ss >that >cannot be located from sockstat? Other RPC processes are found using >sockstat, as the following printing shows: > ># rpcinfo -p | grep 2049 > 100003 2 udp 2049 nfs > 100003 3 udp 2049 nfs > 100003 2 tcp 2049 nfs > 100003 3 tcp 2049 nfs > > >sockstat |grep 2049 >root nfsd 41279 5 tcp4 *:2049 *:* >root nfsd 41279 6 tcp6 *:2049 *:* > > >nfs is found using rpcinfo and also using sockstat=2E > >What rpc=2Elockd does and it is not found=2E After 25 years of sysadmin, = I >find >it very strange for Freebsd to not being able to trace a listening port >to >an executable=2E > > > >-- >Sent from: >http://freebsd=2E1045724=2Ex6=2Enabble=2Ecom/freebsd-hackers-f4034256=2Eh= tml >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-hackers@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >To unsubscribe, send any mail to >"freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg" Rpcinfo displays rpcbind's mapping of RPC program numbers to ports=2E Sockstat and lsof provide the output you desire=2E Sockstat output below, = lsof output is too difficult to cut and paste on a phone=2E 3443 4 udp6 *:652 *:* root rpc=2Estatd 3443 5 tcp6 *:652 *:* root rpc=2Estatd 3443 6 udp4 *:652 *:* root rpc=2Estatd 3443 7 tcp4 *:652 *:* Your kernel and userland are not in sync=2E --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 15:42:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCCB14F720B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:42:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9316685BEC for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:42:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id wU0ZgMp8u82YcwU0agzo6x; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:42:05 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=NNSrBHyg c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=CFTnQlWoA9kA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=9I5xiGouAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=67bvYBd3o6VRA-X7S1AA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=99Hv1CBdQIQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=ARFN2YZ7Uv8kHtb7LS-q:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from android-68f84e02b5988183.esitwifi.local (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0A47491C; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:42:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:41:39 -0800 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <3104E48D-B9A8-46F3-BFB9-8E1CB649882E@cschubert.com> References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> <20190219220404.GA1668@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1550671337578-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <3104E48D-B9A8-46F3-BFB9-8E1CB649882E@cschubert.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,BBlister From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJs5CaIqTPIeuVjgVk2S387S3GDl6+tJkWaTmWGy1z0d48erIbAAj22FixUMvl6PRV/aF4p/xeGIWcXzVT1emECsT605lydESR5efiWSuRC0btD3CvIt G2C9a4t0wajoFQxR0AstStlIr7j+YkXn7zkSIQri7IPoXgprX8sCvarp5Sw5pnh+74L8bvLKNyFtneotsTX/W+j/P32jBDhdGWwaPh6GIlzFYgBp2Qfw7RS+ X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9316685BEC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.08 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[233.154.66.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11,17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.89)[ip: (-4.77), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.57), asn: 6327(-2.00), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.987,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[138.136.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 15:42:08 -0000 On February 20, 2019 6:56:49 AM PST, Cy Schubert wrote: >On February 20, 2019 6:02:17 AM PST, BBlister >wrote: >>After one suggestion on the questions list, I used the rpcinfo -p but >>this >>does not print every unknown port=2E For example: >> >># netstat -an | grep -E '874|815'=20 >>tcp4 0 0 *=2E815 *=2E* =20 >>LISTEN=20 >>tcp6 0 0 *=2E874 *=2E* =20 >>LISTEN=20 >> >>sockstat reports ?=20 >># sockstat | grep -E '874|815'=20 >>? ? ? ? tcp4 *:815 *:*=20 >>? ? ? ? tcp6 *:874 *:*=20 >> >>rpcinfo -p reports just one port=20 >># rpcinfo -p| grep -E '874|815'=20 >> 100021 0 tcp 815 nlockmgr=20 >> 100021 1 tcp 815 nlockmgr=20 >> 100021 3 tcp 815 nlockmgr=20 >> 100021 4 tcp 815 nlockmgr=20 >> >> >>The 874/tcp6 which belongs to rpc=2Elockd does not appear on this list= =2E=20 >>Is rpcinfo only for IPv4 and if yes,what tool do I use for IPv6 ?=20 >> >> >> >> >> >>The grand question is of course, is there any tool to actually locate >>the >>processes that open ports and cannot be identified with sockstat?=20 >> >>The second grand question=2E Why rpc=2Elockd is a different kind of >process >>that >>cannot be located from sockstat? Other RPC processes are found using >>sockstat, as the following printing shows: >> >># rpcinfo -p | grep 2049 >> 100003 2 udp 2049 nfs >> 100003 3 udp 2049 nfs >> 100003 2 tcp 2049 nfs >> 100003 3 tcp 2049 nfs >> >> >>sockstat |grep 2049 >>root nfsd 41279 5 tcp4 *:2049 *:* >>root nfsd 41279 6 tcp6 *:2049 *:* >> >> >>nfs is found using rpcinfo and also using sockstat=2E >> >>What rpc=2Elockd does and it is not found=2E After 25 years of sysadmin,= I >>find >>it very strange for Freebsd to not being able to trace a listening >port >>to >>an executable=2E >> >> >> >>-- >>Sent from: >>http://freebsd=2E1045724=2Ex6=2Enabble=2Ecom/freebsd-hackers-f4034256=2E= html >>_______________________________________________ >>freebsd-hackers@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >>https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>"freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg" > >Rpcinfo displays rpcbind's mapping of RPC program numbers to ports=2E > >Sockstat and lsof provide the output you desire=2E Sockstat output below, >lsof output is too difficult to cut and paste on a phone=2E > >3443 4 udp6 *:652 *:* >root rpc=2Estatd 3443 5 tcp6 *:652 *:* >root rpc=2Estatd 3443 6 udp4 *:652 *:* >root rpc=2Estatd 3443 7 tcp4 *:652 *:* > >Your kernel and userland are not in sync=2E My mistake=2E This thread is about lockd, not statd=2E --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 16:07:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FCB14F79DE; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 16:07:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tijl@freebsd.org) Received: from mailrelay114.isp.belgacom.be (mailrelay114.isp.belgacom.be [195.238.20.141]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "relay.skynet.be", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 087EC867AD; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 16:07:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tijl@freebsd.org) X-Belgacom-Dynamic: yes X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2BdAABjem1c/99MQFdkDg4BAQEEAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?HBAEBgVEHAQELAQGCAlZiMieMIV+LCgEBggw1AYlwjXaBe4R5AoNzIzQJDQE?= =?us-ascii?q?DAQECAQECbShCARABhHcBBTocIxALDgoJJQ8qHgYThRevAYkngQ6MW4F/hCO?= =?us-ascii?q?KYQKRF5I1CZJOJZMGnjk4gVZNMAiDJ4IoF41jPD4DMAGFJopkAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2BdAABjem1c/99MQFdkDg4BAQEEAQEHBAEBgVEHAQELA?= =?us-ascii?q?QGCAlZiMieMIV+LCgEBggw1AYlwjXaBe4R5AoNzIzQJDQEDAQECAQECbShCA?= =?us-ascii?q?RABhHcBBTocIxALDgoJJQ8qHgYThRevAYkngQ6MW4F/hCOKYQKRF5I1CZJOJ?= =?us-ascii?q?ZMGnjk4gVZNMAiDJ4IoF41jPD4DMAGFJopkAQE?= Received: from 223.76-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be (HELO kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org) ([87.64.76.223]) by relay.skynet.be with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2019 17:07:41 +0100 Received: from kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org (kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org [127.0.0.1]) by kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x1KG7d1S042574; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:07:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from tijl@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:07:38 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?VMSzbA==?= Coosemans To: Steve Kargl Cc: Johannes Lundberg , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190220170738.37181f94@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> In-Reply-To: <20190219191807.GA2941@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com> <20190219173554.GA1066@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190219191807.GA2941@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 087EC867AD X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.95 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.951,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5432, ipnet:195.238.0.0/19, country:BE] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 16:07:43 -0000 On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:18:07 -0800 Steve Kargl wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 06:59:26PM +0000, Johannes Lundberg wrote: >> On 2/19/19 5:35 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: >>> My Dell Latitude D530 running i386 freebsd, which used the >>> i915kms.ko now locks up solid with drm-legacy-kmod. The PAE vs >>> non-PAE i386/conf/pmap.h merger in r342567 broke drm-legacy-kmod. >>> It seems that Niclas has provided a patch that fixes the building >>> of drm-legacy-kmod. >>> >>> Doing a bisection on /usr/src commits is fairly slow as it >>> takes a day to build world/kernel and the minimum set of ports >>> need to fire up Xorg. r343543 and earlier appear to work fine >>> with drm-legacy-kmod. >> >> So it's not only a build error, it's also a runtime bug that would have >> happened even with drm2 in base? Hmm.. > > It appears that that's the case. The likely candidates > are r343564(+65 for missing header), r343566, and r343567. That last commit added hw.above4g_allow tunable. Does it help if you set this to 0 in /boot/loader.conf? Also, it's worth trying drm-current-kmod if you haven't done so recently. If you did try already what were the problems? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 17:35:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C6614FA32A for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:35:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from farhan@farhan.codes) Received: from mail.farhan.codes (mail.farhan.codes [155.138.165.43]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DD188A77B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:35:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from farhan@farhan.codes) Received: from mail.farhan.codes (unknown [172.16.0.4]) by mail.farhan.codes (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 145AB113EB for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 12:35:21 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:35:21 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: RainLoop/1.12.1 From: "Farhan Khan" Message-ID: <2fcd9aee092730e11880c3ae88de4898@farhan.codes> Subject: Optimize execution of processes by CPU core To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6DD188A77B X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.01 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[farhan.codes:s=mail]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.941,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.80)[0.803,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.farhan.codes]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[farhan.codes:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[farhan.codes,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(0.14)[asn: 20473(0.75), country: US(-0.07)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:155.138.160.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:35:31 -0000 Hi all,=0A=0AI am trying to optimize the execution of a CPU-intensive wor= kload where I am running multiple instances of a program. The moment the = program ends (expected behavior), the calling shell script verifies the r= esults and if its good it reruns the program. The machines I am running t= his on have 8 cores, but ps reports that some of the processes frequently= run on the same CPU, so I suspect I am not getting optimized performance= . If possible, and if most efficient, I would like to run each process on= its own CPU core.=0A=0AAre there any best practices on how to run someth= ing like this? I understand cpuset can perform some functionality around = this, but I do not understand the tooling (The man page speaks of a CPU s= et?) Would I do something like "cpuset -c -l 0 program arg1 arg2 arg3" in= one script, and then "cpuset -c -l 1 program arg1 arg2 arg3" in the next= up to 7?=0A=0AObviously it would be best to re-write the program to hand= le multiple threads in in an optimized way, but that would take more time= than the optimization would likely save.=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0A---=0AFarhan = Khan From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 17:55:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873C614FACE2 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:55:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slw@zxy.spb.ru) Received: from zxy.spb.ru (zxy.spb.ru [195.70.199.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3031A8B352 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:55:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slw@zxy.spb.ru) Received: from slw by zxy.spb.ru with local (Exim 4.86 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1gwW5T-000DCM-F4; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:55:15 +0300 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:55:15 +0300 From: Slawa Olhovchenkov To: Farhan Khan Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Optimize execution of processes by CPU core Message-ID: <20190220175515.GA2178@zxy.spb.ru> References: <2fcd9aee092730e11880c3ae88de4898@farhan.codes> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2fcd9aee092730e11880c3ae88de4898@farhan.codes> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: slw@zxy.spb.ru X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zxy.spb.ru); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3031A8B352 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.48 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.90)[0.895,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[zxy.spb.ru]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.94)[0.942,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[zxy.spb.ru]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.75)[0.751,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5495, ipnet:195.70.192.0/19, country:RU]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[country: RU(0.00)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:55:26 -0000 On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 05:35:21PM +0000, Farhan Khan via freebsd-hackers wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to optimize the execution of a CPU-intensive workload where I am running multiple instances of a program. The moment the program ends (expected behavior), the calling shell script verifies the results and if its good it reruns the program. The machines I am running this on have 8 cores, but ps reports that some of the processes frequently run on the same CPU, so I suspect I am not getting optimized performance. If possible, and if most efficient, I would like to run each process on its own CPU core. > > Are there any best practices on how to run something like this? I understand cpuset can perform some functionality around this, but I do not understand the tooling (The man page speaks of a CPU set?) Would I do something like "cpuset -c -l 0 program arg1 arg2 arg3" in one script, and then "cpuset -c -l 1 program arg1 arg2 arg3" in the next up to 7? just "cpuset -l 0 program arg1 arg2 arg3" and etc. (w/o "-c") > Obviously it would be best to re-write the program to handle multiple threads in in an optimized way, but that would take more time than the optimization would likely save. for every thread: char name[128]; cpuset_t mask; pthread_attr_t attr; pthread_attr_init(&attr); CPU_ZERO(&mask); CPU_SET(cpu, &mask); pthread_attr_setaffinity_np(&attr, sizeof(mask), &mask); pthread_create(&tid[n], &attr, worker_thread, (void *)args); snprintf(name, 128, "worker CPU#%d", cpu); pthread_set_name_np(tid[n], name); From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 18:20:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3319614FB55E for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 18:20:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d12:604::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BE98C3F3 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 18:20:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1KIK2M6053163 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 20 Feb 2019 19:20:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: farhan@farhan.codes Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1KIK1rM054778 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Feb 2019 01:20:01 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: Optimize execution of processes by CPU core To: Farhan Khan , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <2fcd9aee092730e11880c3ae88de4898@farhan.codes> From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 01:19:53 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2fcd9aee092730e11880c3ae88de4898@farhan.codes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BE98C3F3 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=permerror (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eugen@grosbein.net uses mechanism not recognized by this client) smtp.mailfrom=eugen@grosbein.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MX_INVALID(0.50)[greylisted]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grosbein.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_PERMFAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.989,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.30)[ip: (-1.92), ipnet: 2a01:4f8::/29(-2.37), asn: 24940(-2.23), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 18:20:24 -0000 21.02.2019 0:35, Farhan Khan via freebsd-hackers wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to optimize the execution of a CPU-intensive workload where I am running multiple instances of a program. > The moment the program ends (expected behavior), the calling shell script verifies the results and if its good it reruns the program. > The machines I am running this on have 8 cores, but ps reports that some of the processes frequently run on the same CPU, > so I suspect I am not getting optimized performance. System scheduler switches useland processed from one CPU core to another often enough so each CPU has even load and you cannot see that with naked. But you can easily verify if load is even or not checking sysctl kern.cp_times that shows five monotonically increasing counters per each CPU core. For example, in case of dual-core system: $ sysctl kern.cp_times kern.cp_times: 14789486 132229 14016113 327160 949428773 14374865 139326 12056998 2941012 949179638 $ sysctl kern.clockrate kern.clockrate: { hz = 1000, tick = 1000, profhz = 8126, stathz = 127 } There are "stathz" ticks per second and for each core exactly one of five counters is incremented by one: user, nice, system, interrupt, idle. That is, each 5th counter is incremented if corresponding CPU core was idle during "the tick". You can save output of sysctl kern.cp_times, run your test, stop it and save output again. Then compare difference of each 5th counter and they should be approximately equal. You can even draw graphs if you periodically get samples of the sysctl, compute diffs with previous samples, divide diffs by period length in seconds and then divide again by "stathz" value. Multiply by 100 to get idle time of single CPU code in percents for the period. Repeat for each core. I use net-mgmt/mrtg to draw such per-CPU graphs for my servers, it works just fine. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 19:31:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE4214FD8E5 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 19:31:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.tarsnap.com (mail.tarsnap.com [54.86.246.204]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8648FECC for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 19:30:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 66841 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2019 19:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO exbuntu.daemonology.net) (127.0.0.1) by ec2-107-20-205-189.compute-1.amazonaws.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2019 19:32:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 88469 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2019 19:31:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (127.0.0.1) by clamshell.daemonology.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2019 19:31:08 -0000 Subject: Re: Amazon AMIs To: Matthew Seaman , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: From: Colin Percival Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=cperciva@freebsd.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQGhBElrAAcRBACDfDys4ZtK+ErCJ1HAzYeteKpm3OEsvT/49AjUTLihkF79HhIKrCQU+1KC zv7BwHCMLb6hq30As9L7iFKG7n5QFLFC4Te/VcITUnWHMG/c3ViLOfJGvi+9/nOEHaM1dVJY D6tEp5yM1nHmVQpo9932j4KGuGFR0LhOK5IHXOSfGwCgxSFDPdgxe2OEjWxjGgY+oV3EafcD +JROXCTjlcQiG/OguQH4Vks3mhHfFnEppLxTkDuYgHZQiUtpcT9ssH5khgqoTyMar05OUdAj ZIhNbWDh4LgTj+7ZmvLhXT5Zxw8LX9d7T36aTB8XDQSenDqEtinMWOb0TCBBLbsB8EFG1WTT ESbZci9jJS5yhtktuZoY/eM8uXMD/3k4FWFO80VRRkELSp+XSy/VlSQjyi/rhl2nQq/oOA9F oJbDaB0yq9VNhxP+uFBzBWSqeIX0t1ZWLtNfVFr4TRP5hihI5ICrg/0OpqgisKsU2NFe9xyO hyJLYmfD8ebpDJ/9k30C7Iju9pVrwLm1QgS4S2fqJRcR+U4WbjvP7CgStCVDb2xpbiBQZXJj aXZhbCA8Y3BlcmNpdmFAdGFyc25hcC5jb20+iGEEExECACEFAklrALYCGwMHCwkIBwMCAQQV AggDBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQOM7KaQxqam6/igCgn+z2k3V5ggNppmWrZstt1U2lugsAoL7L wS9V9yLtil3oWmHtwpUqYruEuQINBElrAAcQCAD3ZLMIsP4CIDoJORg+YY0lqLVBgcnF7pFb 4Uy2+KvdWofN+DKH61rZLjgXXkNE9M4EQC1B4lGttBP8IY2gs41y3AUogGdyFbidq99rCBz7 LTsgARHwFxZoaHmXyiZLEU1QZuMqwPZV1mCviRhN5E3rRqYNXVcrnXAAuhBpvNyj/ntHvcDN 2/m+ochiuBYueU4kX3lHya7sOj+mTsndcWmQ9soOUyr8O0r/BG088bMn4qqtUw4dl5/pglXk jbl7uOOPinKf0WVd2r6M0wLPJCD4NPHrCWRLLLAjwfjrtoSRvXxDbXhCdgGBa72+K8eYLzVs hgq7tJOoBWzjVK6XRxR7AAMGB/9Mo3iJ2DxqDecd02KCB5BsFDICbJGhPltU7FwrtbC7djSb XUrwsEVLHi4st4cbdGNCWCrp0BRezXZKohKnNAPFOTK++ZfgeKxrV2sJod+Q9RILF86tQ4XF 7A7Yme5hy92t/WgiU4vc/fWbgP8gV/19f8nunaT2E9NSa70mZFjZNu4iuwThoUUO5CV3Wo0Y UISsnRK8XD1+LR3A2qVyLiFRwh/miC1hgLFCTGCQ3GLxZeZzIpYSlGdQJ0L5lixW5ZQD9r1I 8i/8zhE6qRFAM0upUMI3Gt1Oq2w03DiXrZU0Fu/R8Rm8rlnkQKA+95mRTUq1xL5P5NZIi4gJ Z569OPMFiEkEGBECAAkFAklrAAcCGwwACgkQOM7KaQxqam41igCfbaldnFTu5uAdrnrghESv EI3CAo8AoLkNMks1pThl2BJNRm4CtTK9xZeH Message-ID: <8a139c9c-b98b-4a54-1d7c-0ea1e3dc7a72@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:31:08 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5B8648FECC X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.976,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:54.86.0.0/16, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 19:31:03 -0000 On 2/20/19 3:00 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote: > Question:  Why is m4.large the recommended instance type?  Surely we'd be > better served and present users with a better experience by recommending an m5 > instance as one of the more modern and higher performance types? Last time I looked at this, we weren't handling hotplug/hotunplug of "NVMe" disks properly on the m5/c5/etc. instances. I opted to recommend the instance which completely works rather than the one with slightly better performance... -- Colin Percival Security Officer Emeritus, FreeBSD | The power to serve Founder, Tarsnap | www.tarsnap.com | Online backups for the truly paranoid From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 22:27:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899DD14DEACA for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:27:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ale@FreeBSD.org) Received: from lab.alexdupre.com (lab.alexdupre.com [93.151.207.39]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A83B071B77 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:27:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ale@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 21612 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2019 22:20:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.178.163?) (sysadmin@alexdupre.com@192.168.178.163) by lab.alexdupre.com with ESMTPSA; 20 Feb 2019 22:20:28 -0000 Subject: Re: Amazon AMIs To: Colin Percival , Matthew Seaman , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <8a139c9c-b98b-4a54-1d7c-0ea1e3dc7a72@freebsd.org> From: Alex Dupre Message-ID: <53a0bd68-a6ba-e8ad-4af2-abeb22e92c03@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 23:20:28 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8a139c9c-b98b-4a54-1d7c-0ea1e3dc7a72@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A83B071B77 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30722, ipnet:93.151.128.0/17, country:IT] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:27:13 -0000 Colin Percival wrote: > On 2/20/19 3:00 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote: >> Question:=C2=A0 Why is m4.large the recommended instance type?=C2=A0 S= urely we'd be >> better served and present users with a better experience by recommendi= ng an m5 >> instance as one of the more modern and higher performance types? >=20 > Last time I looked at this, we weren't handling hotplug/hotunplug of "N= VMe" > disks properly on the m5/c5/etc. instances. I opted to recommend the i= nstance > which completely works rather than the one with slightly better perform= ance... It does happen only on a few instances, but I get some freezes on new t3 machines: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D235856 They are indeed cheaper and more performant, but not 100% reliable in every workload. --=20 Alex Dupre From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 22:32:05 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0996D14DEDE4 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:32:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B0E871F36; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:32:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.86.191] (stjhnf0157w-142-134-222-130.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nl.bellaliant.net [142.134.222.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jonathan) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 073D048FA; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:32:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) From: "Jonathan Anderson" To: "Alex Dupre" Cc: "Colin Percival" , "Matthew Seaman" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Amazon AMIs Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 19:02:01 -0330 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.4r5594) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <53a0bd68-a6ba-e8ad-4af2-abeb22e92c03@FreeBSD.org> References: <8a139c9c-b98b-4a54-1d7c-0ea1e3dc7a72@freebsd.org> <53a0bd68-a6ba-e8ad-4af2-abeb22e92c03@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6B0E871F36 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.98 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.985,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:96.47.64.0/20, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:32:05 -0000 On 20 Feb 2019, at 18:50, Alex Dupre wrote: > Colin Percival wrote: >> Last time I looked at this, we weren't handling hotplug/hotunplug of >> "NVMe" >> disks properly on the m5/c5/etc. instances. I opted to recommend the >> instance >> which completely works rather than the one with slightly better >> performance... > > It does happen only on a few instances, but I get some freezes on new > t3 > machines: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=235856 > > They are indeed cheaper and more performant, but not 100% reliable in > every workload. https://www.xkcd.com/937 ? :) Jon -- Jonathan Anderson jonathan@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Feb 20 22:50:12 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ECE914DFA09 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:50:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bwidawsk@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AA8C7311B; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:50:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bwidawsk@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (c-73-25-164-31.hsd1.or.comcast.net [73.25.164.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bwidawsk) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F9D84B19; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:50:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bwidawsk@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 14:50:09 -0800 From: Ben Widawsky To: Milan Obuch Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: est on newer CPU Message-ID: <20190220225009.4xz7bilvyyhvhpeg@smtp.freebsd.org> Mail-Followup-To: Milan Obuch , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20190218180119.137afd06@zeta.dino.sk> <20190219204457.4lliz3d4ycat7jgx@smtp.freebsd.org> <20190220122347.64ee649c@wind.dino.sk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190220122347.64ee649c@wind.dino.sk> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1AA8C7311B X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.96 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.960,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:96.47.64.0/20, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:50:12 -0000 On 19-02-20 12:23:47, Milan Obuch wrote: > On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:44:57 -0800 > Ben Widawsky wrote: > > > On 19-02-18 18:01:19, Milan Obuch wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have currently installed FreeBSD on HP gen10 server. With an > > > exception of HP RAID controller, needs to be switched to SATA mode, > > > everything went well (OK, I did some errors so it was a bit of > > > trials-errors but basically no problem). > > > > > > Now I found there is not working powerd - in dmesg > > > > > > est: CPU supports Enhanced Speedstep, but is not recognized. > > > est: cpu_vendor GenuineIntel, msr 20b600002500 > > > device_attach: est0 attach returned 6 > > > > > > CPU is > > > > > > CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Gold G5400 CPU @ 3.70GHz (3696.18-MHz > > > K8-class CPU) > > > > > > Actual system version is > > > > > > 12.0-STABLE FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE r344230 > > > > > > Is there something I can do to get est recognize this CPU and get > > > working powerd? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Milan > > > > To start with, can you try > > hw.est.msr_info=1 > > > > Well, I tried and put this line into /boot/loader.conf, but the result > was endless boot loop. No idea what is wrong... it just quickly loops, > most probably inserted line is causing system reset. > > > Also, is acpi_perf being loaded? > > > > No, there is no such file in /boot/kernel at all. > It wouldn't be in /boot/kernel, if you're not explicitly disabling it, it should be there. I have a feeling your ACPI tables have some weirdness to them. Might be worth looking for a BIOS upgrade if you haven't already. I can't look right away, but you could put a dump of your acpi tables for later debug. > Also, I tried 13-CURRENT last snapshot, it boot OK, but the net result > is the same - est could not attach, because CPU is not recognized. > > On another system, with different Intel CPU, it works. > > Milan > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Feb 21 08:00:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B3A14FB96A for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 08:00:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2D5594C5C; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 08:00:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.117.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B5208857; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 08:00:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from liminal.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:5b2:c17c:5973:53dc]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 08ABE1A05; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 08:00:50 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/08ABE1A05; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: Amazon AMIs To: Jonathan Anderson , Alex Dupre Cc: Colin Percival , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <8a139c9c-b98b-4a54-1d7c-0ea1e3dc7a72@freebsd.org> <53a0bd68-a6ba-e8ad-4af2-abeb22e92c03@FreeBSD.org> From: Matthew Seaman Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=matthew@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFJIL80BEADi7/VbnnErDU6pjEhI/SzEZ/HbDRkJ5g7HroAtqIRm6nj8ZwOAgZ/2ZnWn 5F+fXTuLsG0FLNtkd17FoVcuCi5e/GPliXI5cmamV7E1Yz4T8UsJ7RQolimyxVexccKd16Tc AA7B9bFlJSKkBUSD0buj7VjT07xWhRzu6Vgi5r0UjLALYJz977uZA0F1aOGOXREDEAOhdcNc kSNjynqAwDA6dCT1Elpi4key1fYjv4jyDF+GU/YXul2Y/rguA8FCkHd9vyym5eAsLQ5mG00V V9fkEHIpH5KorNVnl/ufHXnkZqmHAZVpFDcrshb7aZ/pL45PXyWgLj+e6etelgj3a2bZi0JF cVdXCnBZVP2oIyYblM11ugTbfCwodORU8a5KfPeztMdAtDr4e+32NTrPdPi5rLT+GUsYz+PL 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Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HX6jbUfHfGv6M0EqGuksQH7fZ31yWhQwu" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E2D5594C5C X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.98 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:96.47.64.0/20, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 08:00:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --HX6jbUfHfGv6M0EqGuksQH7fZ31yWhQwu Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="l4dnDZyxVlkgmR0LDNyl4Q9W3EtsrSlWI"; protected-headers="v1" From: Matthew Seaman To: Jonathan Anderson , Alex Dupre Cc: Colin Percival , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: Amazon AMIs References: <8a139c9c-b98b-4a54-1d7c-0ea1e3dc7a72@freebsd.org> <53a0bd68-a6ba-e8ad-4af2-abeb22e92c03@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: --l4dnDZyxVlkgmR0LDNyl4Q9W3EtsrSlWI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/02/2019 22:32, Jonathan Anderson wrote: > On 20 Feb 2019, at 18:50, Alex Dupre wrote: >=20 >> Colin Percival wrote: >>> Last time I looked at this, we weren't handling hotplug/hotunplug of >>> "NVMe" >>> disks properly on the m5/c5/etc. instances.=C2=A0 I opted to recommen= d the >>> instance >>> which completely works rather than the one with slightly better >>> performance... >> >> It does happen only on a few instances, but I get some freezes on new = t3 >> machines: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D235856 >> >> They are indeed cheaper and more performant, but not 100% reliable in >> every workload. >=20 > https://www.xkcd.com/937 ? >=20 Yes, indeed. That's a very good reason not to recommend the newest and shiniest. I haven't seen any problems so far, but then again it's only been a day or so and we haven't got into the full testing regime quite yet. I'll let you know if we do run into problems. Is there work on hot-plug NVMe going on? ISTR jmg@ mentioning hotplug PCI at the dev summit at Stockholm EuroBSDCon, but not much since then. Cheers, Matthew --l4dnDZyxVlkgmR0LDNyl4Q9W3EtsrSlWI-- --HX6jbUfHfGv6M0EqGuksQH7fZ31yWhQwu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEEGfFU7L8RLlBUTj8wAFE/EOCp5OcFAlxuWrBfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDE5 RjE1NEVDQkYxMTJFNTA1NDRFM0YzMDAwNTEzRjEwRTBBOUU0RTcACgkQAFE/EOCp 5OdFuBAAoIlCRpT8xrD4fIB5voinkiSYFd/Y49WBle0Bk7l1Ptg8cb2tVlK/4kvw zOHuJ0kUFw2u1vtiLuKXE25GbVsAdsodbFOWXRgBH8yno8zCqUGueQNLGMi0baWc tzjv8qlzLGKgzc6deEhb7eSTdwyIcYGNSLs69KkMPSTlMX5W6dwAN0deELj5xMpB kIo8x/n7gf+i7IZBWkAOlkRZwF1wlGSBqeZ3Wh+KnVx69NbLjuNJd8iO8f+9/rN/ 3X2+p3iEHzPmvd76p8nOP6hiMBR/3SxGsWNC8Xi0VBENULHZjiIxYlVccKWM45QE 9Aw4r4F+Vq+LCwifRWFtruZpnOqZDmBfLMbWylIDlC3uYMe0PqZEOjMrI+gVtY6U T9X+TWp2X16Or5Bgd5c6vHARFxd3foPE9op0YGLWfpKYhgDoRPNhRIlKFtKC3KFv LCgCtRjZ21hMGeEYSqp47Y0w6CMLAqCECxkqEzt58+7WQA9al4l7KRD5bzCWXUaF awJRN16Jy5ARiubj62UOE6HqG+u4L5PXNFCGcMBkAYC1Uznj+76L0+oME/Tt7iV3 6NxyUaH/iPqE96Ksdgsaek1pssPWoMxzuXyzd4E2QYs6CAFEpy7VM4qtdd9yizMH Ea/WGW9tZokg5ygGP5Uhg5PleUcMW6Bzfxg2JuMRjSozCOqe/U0= =dgNV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HX6jbUfHfGv6M0EqGuksQH7fZ31yWhQwu-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Feb 21 09:15:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB4F214FEF61 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 09:15:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bblister@gmail.com) Received: from n6.nabble.com (n6.nabble.com [162.255.23.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1846812B for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 09:15:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bblister@gmail.com) Received: from n6.nabble.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by n6.nabble.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CCA9C773543 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 02:15:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 02:15:28 -0700 (MST) From: BBlister To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1550740528377-0.post@n6.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <877baa2abd2c062a389b88e66dd67f1fba032e93.camel@freebsd.org> References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> <20190219220404.GA1668@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1550671337578-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <877baa2abd2c062a389b88e66dd67f1fba032e93.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DE1846812B X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 162.255.23.37 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of bblister@gmail.com) smtp.mailfrom=bblister@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.71 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.47)[0.473,0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.69)[0.686,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.33)[0.326,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[37.23.255.162.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(0.13)[ip: (0.54), ipnet: 162.255.20.0/22(0.14), asn: 21624(0.04), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21624, ipnet:162.255.20.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 09:15:31 -0000 Nice explanation, but why the rpcinfo -p does not print all the ports that rpc.lockd is using? Perhaps rpcinfo is not IPV6 compatible, but can only locate ipv4 ports? The conclusion is that if something is reported by sockstat with '?' in the process name, this means that the kernel has opened it. Is this correct? Thanks again for clarifying this, Rgz, BB -- Sent from: http://freebsd.1045724.x6.nabble.com/freebsd-hackers-f4034256.html From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Feb 21 16:18:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613FE14E682B for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 16:18:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82b.google.com (mail-qt1-x82b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68EDC81877 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 16:17:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82b.google.com with SMTP id p48so32138085qtk.2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 08:17:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jpq9Km8W2Bikxwk2iq3Mky4mwqLdlAXbTZvlXDK20zE=; b=NEJwHcLkqGqPiigDmeRZrioi+NYyQXMduNN751M7gGGsIbexSQysQpHOaKiQE/5NY7 IKf0Ed5/UFPywEFTFQrS3V5jcmMp8GLYP3P7H5pqdlUf8FVUpRU+j15KItJcd2LtWE2+ c9wqbsOWJemU6kUjE6yYSHlWigORHdD6LCx7RRhtInJsPEgId34gEJ54LUE2lMBaoXWx P8cRNUutha26zRkaS+1fovtSCwHfY3Vh1fD9PezRzRxWUuPFDa9uNbWPbZK/R2GTaqF5 mUuyuRfNgqbgddrQ7/970yKUdrRT9yLwdTFQrnWmKE7x2MwM+2kld4DerFPlCHkscVMh 2jEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jpq9Km8W2Bikxwk2iq3Mky4mwqLdlAXbTZvlXDK20zE=; b=l2CLrzBpqI2M05U/mDCZA9FhFTEx3yfOeghWCQysXtJG3b8hAwV19oOU+ArXvU1/zu ++m+IX4TSqcm3o0XaUQI8cGZES2dXEdxRMXHLCCmlHijOwOoXueM7Q8zVg7qhk9FVRpw 8KLszRXyXMPNIczlRTVQW+Isv+AZ7pG8/umJOnhIFkhHXHGyQLptVaFdUZ9pOZVzVfle iA7fePmPFW3hKR+pcXSEngpRuOtulJdXz6E/5vJleeWamQLmfc0LDfUsz+Fib8TNtP2a zMdhz/+rA5+D1thDWcoYzHXCGBH55VuuqAAgsuRQxEGLzZ0yqwmYGbqXGN9szLg4NY16 C9Kw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAualtuVgmf09cjvWMuGMdZmBLPfaMxSOs+WVVUBRpZcQvqhI5DuY hR7giUbqQwKkS3yCpWuu75XqvJKrNL5SrCZJXMoXg5rX X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbQuft7vrIqy4DmAAVLoslo0cbue+SsYDEtd1BxfffXLfaJIo3KM+xFx9ew9jpk0RL/NZ0y/Rkoor2xwjHd8Eg= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:b68a:: with SMTP id u10mr30139127qvd.57.1550765878839; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 08:17:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8a139c9c-b98b-4a54-1d7c-0ea1e3dc7a72@freebsd.org> <53a0bd68-a6ba-e8ad-4af2-abeb22e92c03@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 09:17:48 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Amazon AMIs To: Matthew Seaman Cc: Jonathan Anderson , Alex Dupre , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Colin Percival X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 68EDC81877 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=NEJwHcLk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.70 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.935,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.75)[ip: (-9.10), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.61), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 16:18:00 -0000 On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 1:02 AM Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 20/02/2019 22:32, Jonathan Anderson wrote: > > On 20 Feb 2019, at 18:50, Alex Dupre wrote: > > > >> Colin Percival wrote: > >>> Last time I looked at this, we weren't handling hotplug/hotunplug of > >>> "NVMe" > >>> disks properly on the m5/c5/etc. instances. I opted to recommend the > >>> instance > >>> which completely works rather than the one with slightly better > >>> performance... > >> > >> It does happen only on a few instances, but I get some freezes on new t3 > >> machines: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=235856 > >> > >> They are indeed cheaper and more performant, but not 100% reliable in > >> every workload. > > > > https://www.xkcd.com/937 ? > > > > Yes, indeed. That's a very good reason not to recommend the newest and > shiniest. I haven't seen any problems so far, but then again it's only > been a day or so and we haven't got into the full testing regime quite > yet. I'll let you know if we do run into problems. > > Is there work on hot-plug NVMe going on? ISTR jmg@ mentioning hotplug > PCI at the dev summit at Stockholm EuroBSDCon, but not much since then. > It's hot-unplug that doesn't work quite right. Hotplug works, I believe, if you have PCI_HP in your kernel, I believe. What's needed is about a solid week of cleanup and testing in this area, however. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Feb 21 22:40:20 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC1214F4231 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 22:40:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodsb02@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x942.google.com (mail-ua1-x942.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::942]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 826016AEF3; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 22:40:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodsb02@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x942.google.com with SMTP id e16so198417uam.12; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 14:40:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fbfNhkbEFxd0fwaoz8+eb6291mrXEC8N45I39bx5hZ4=; b=N5Z9RevXnLU+wCMTHWoR6mdBJG05jt2tdwxKr09FadIY6oXB4JlEjN84fnrqOCFhFJ Vm8y7foLdWB2NaEHMG14Ex0PwgJl4nxujT+8Kqy8ndoqn0iUIgZJkl33RYwrohgLW4oQ ZlZTCkaM12XAd7KLgFDraDMVhgfpvumEHuo9XvChIOa0AovpuWwac3qdA0gB5//0RXPZ WfhNUYcPbAID9ac9gqxc7S6Y/3AatneNaoefmgYXjT0kasBCYJkQVOUMhGdnsaox5O1i ujcsuwy8XwBjZnq2F4+P6P2IKpUDYAb7n4F5il9aBaHCzcqULJ5ZnY6Qkq66fRaU5JB5 QBHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fbfNhkbEFxd0fwaoz8+eb6291mrXEC8N45I39bx5hZ4=; b=WTkV0fEuax3DtLKkZWo30nXeK3M03i2F+2vsBdA8HRDSJ9J6D2IbRIyHH6sQzkNJk0 LVJVUR0BEZEXRFdvikOHAHkSBbm+GiOwJya428zgNmIDteQwYfAygjK2TslpEqx8hmWN vI9P5tVqcTDBNHjHS6FCFHxOyqvEMWyR5jh4Kk1WIYvCSk3jCXo2c6HGWkpDAQUnfEWk jmDh6LmCnvgMshmyD9xDOdO2qFp00EMEQ19bISoyy6WkC74/NF6vR0HiKi2xqbAeAdC4 o+ZjXvcROBeUEtSohXo55uwaETkOk9JgooqcxVwrYdK894hrvicGAVZUaV3cx70RMoUp fjGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZrpZBJlbQGGlfwc/A0z+FylRBDzcQSioq7bjpgXGtWSnCh/HWD EGoPSjXap250c+xgSczHz1NnyyUlJf3MY/DGNWeeBw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZ6jKK12nqrth3btgnckB7q1WM1025cuvAFZhuX2xYOu/ScoQTF4NRIcLiv3O/TZ770MAlhFuiUvlDy/7vHWDk= X-Received: by 2002:a67:b145:: with SMTP id z5mr551297vsl.53.1550788818703; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 14:40:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1550610819543-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <7b44b3ce-9b96-e91b-b9ca-57100c784db7@sentex.net> <20190219220404.GA1668@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1550671337578-0.post@n6.nabble.com> <877baa2abd2c062a389b88e66dd67f1fba032e93.camel@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <877baa2abd2c062a389b88e66dd67f1fba032e93.camel@freebsd.org> From: Ben Woods Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 06:40:07 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: userland process rpc.lockd opens untraceable ports...is something wrong here? To: Ian Lepore Cc: BBlister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 826016AEF3 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=N5Z9RevX; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of woodsb02@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::942 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=woodsb02@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.03 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.02)[0.019,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.4.9.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-0.07)[ip: (4.31), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.61), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 22:40:21 -0000 On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 11:03 pm, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Wed, 2019-02-20 at 07:02 -0700, BBlister wrote: > > # sockstat | grep -E '874|815' > > ? ? ? ? tcp4 *:815 *:* > > ? ? ? ? tcp6 *:874 *:* > > > > rpcinfo -p reports just one port > > # rpcinfo -p| grep -E '874|815' > > 100021 0 tcp 815 nlockmgr > > 100021 1 tcp 815 nlockmgr > > 100021 3 tcp 815 nlockmgr > > 100021 4 tcp 815 nlockmgr > > > > The situation here is that the socket is neither opened by nor owned by > any userland process. The rpc.lockd implementation is split into a > kernel piece and a userland piece, and much of the work is done in- > kernel. The in-kernel part of the code contacts the userland daemon > part for help when it needs to. > > So the socket is created by the in-kernel part of lockd, and it is not > tied to any file descriptor. Tools which report on userland processes > use file descriptors to associate kernel resources with the processes > that own them. In this case, it is the kernel itself that owns the > socket, so it can't be reported as belonging to any userland process. > > If you're interested in poking around in the code involved, see > nlm_server_main() in src/sys/nlm/nlm_prot_impl.c > > -- Ian A similar issue is discussed in this bug report: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D212608 My personal opinion is that this is confusing and worrying for users, and a better user experience would be if sockstat and lsof were able to detail the owner of these open ports (either just =E2=80=9Ckernel=E2=80=9D or bett= er yet which part of the kernel). I have no idea if this is technically possible or how complicated it is. Is anyone able to comment on this? Regards, Ben --=20 -- From: Benjamin Woods woodsb02@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 04:43:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF6014FF512 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 04:43:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert.ayrapetyan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x235.google.com (mail-oi1-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B799181253 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 04:43:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert.ayrapetyan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x235.google.com with SMTP id b4so777106oif.6 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 20:43:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=h+Y4hA9K4s8ww/YuGV5PnADgvCRN1pXMgNOkp77E+zM=; b=hRq38qFsmoNXmluoabZo8eFrYyfaFT7G3twU0CfCF2wZ4pZuDdYnHTo4x4yFcCg3Y0 9+IEIC+eqK1yWhSLJOBpEap7W38RyM9ESB86E7JiwEdjs5yfibARZs+SXTKWEUV7Br9F EUZtjGaXPbEdQurkCpceXJs6VzpflRTktzzf8TsDcE2qkzQcZxEPcJtfuYOx80D9ag3f T0u2hmvZfqtzEdIsifipney1t7spsOIUM5KxFNynTmVo1rpZGrSJB1MvZJh5XyB9zFUr iNezlWjodcTc68QpkFAMckTcEG2m7T+995OQXWCxveF7CIsXifeOzGkDM7qpLXgcviox xRjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=h+Y4hA9K4s8ww/YuGV5PnADgvCRN1pXMgNOkp77E+zM=; b=gtJbbSK8cXP7PP4LxB2jabl7HLsBqOwU91YBO96wQ1e6NOXXEn/TKE/odZ//bg6z26 hfGb6VwvKgfwNgQ54I5qaQix61+6QsXRoVTQhZqWYLtl5+ttoBeDrwxc+oCH3dG6dVJh zFotOKor5bQ6EGVenHCgYhvGA9NBT2lqL7S+JwSjhduhvZbuAN+/igEWVeLyH3FXck4K qrhyTCM9hlOuxdtY9GubMhdeY2a7c0o9yBemr7gzFuyNNIRm7Kh3kt/OlTC9a+0Mhdnq C4B3Z01rxNdoKiN8XBAV1SjAERnhRrA8QzXBrxhveyFwV2eOPxbPi8clsIRrZCqKAqbT 5DQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYmmhUD4WazBNZMLukQnipVv8QBdIxbGH5Bwc663RyPjjwhoFDH LRg0HdzLWtd0KeCjE17rZF9X8WJGJAUF3QbQyZ69eDU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Ib8ro9gzqH+2dAHSVA96VWJpDFJZ4jsIELg6xsykEpXAjAuk3KF+hrDbqOXs5EE1aJXqPpsqjewzAmTMfde7Ns= X-Received: by 2002:aca:5c05:: with SMTP id q5mr1305091oib.146.1550810636438; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 20:43:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Robert Ayrapetyan Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 20:43:20 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: ptrace: SIGTRAP and EXIT race To: FreeBSD X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B799181253 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=hRq38qFs; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of robertayrapetyan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=robertayrapetyan@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.72 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.913,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.80)[ip: (-9.32), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.62), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[5.3.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 04:43:59 -0000 Hello. Before creating a bug and providing some test code, would ask a community here. When tracing a process using ptrace and there are multiple threads in the tracing process hitting the same breakpoint, sometimes main thread exits (WIFEXITED(status) is TRUE) before last queued TRAP_BKPT signal(s) have been delivered to the tracing process. So a final breakpoint hits counter is less than it should be. So in the example below: #include #include #include static const int num_threads = 2; void foo() { for (int i = 0; i < 2; ++i) { printf("hi: %d (tid: %d)\n", i, pthread_getthreadid_np()); } } int main() { std::thread t[num_threads]; for (int i = 0; i < num_threads; ++i) { t[i] = std::thread(foo); } for (int i = 0; i < num_threads; ++i) { t[i].join(); } return 0; } If we set breakpoint to printf, it should be triggered 4 times (tracing process should receive TRAP_BKPT 4 times). However, in ~1 of 5 runs, it receives TRAP_BKPT just 2 or 3 times. Is this expected? Thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 08:51:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0C214E0D09 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 08:51:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rajfbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com (mail-wr1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F8D78A025 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 08:51:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rajfbsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id f14so1473894wrg.1 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 00:51:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XhLlGH4dRPH6d2+SAyNEn8CZTBAQz+bqwUqSoGRrAUM=; b=tOfPQ8LD5pcfOteOyyC2a3fGmtISIYU/gN85zdIu+PddIg55cKJyBU2BZ8yD70W/Wy dl4FbY1Z+g+2gt92PLQzmMIY/tEV8YvL6LPlo8qGXlgzEfa3iecfqKoeW/Zv1++fds+R lwqBNF17qEY/Mghvb+X41fF4RPVGOV9iM6Gwzpb2mVIEPIC94zpemtHoN8Pa6o38pekg IEUSjzO99eVIRpWX6TBTkW56hFsgm3hlgjx2kcktx70aHA6OMMoG3/Ck2r4z/Df/j366 pkuoz5RnmQRx0cbsUTHff8dwh/UauJQZ8SlHjQ5R/CAAAsBgKNShMrVhtRiMG8MU0DKg 0q2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XhLlGH4dRPH6d2+SAyNEn8CZTBAQz+bqwUqSoGRrAUM=; b=Amyuxm/CTMYbayRwXet1wtTR3ekjqLNikG3iNEYsSd+Jp6I1DsJBkkQ/n8psGgOB+1 6W6tcsbaUQoRfPtMJan479Cq5CTcFCeA/uRUF/KLQTQZaxvfoRXosKe+t2piIhG27YaZ isbExOGldFOXGt6s/OmXTQ+o8aSxXXgdtRYYlkACgDaULlkjUT20/ujKTgbwLHqv9mpI nK6ed0/H1bmzRajWM+sg7ZEJXWtcnGxcIDw1q++sN85X/oCGGJrFvtSnhze14Sl792xJ qihPQlkH8H9GfGQctn1901P6Np2tm0k8U1ODbA5Y6VCDoeAl0Egey+kZ3gUkryvtmd8g j+jw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZFeM5tB7N2LHpbvdZ9E3ao8OfDriNKSkfRE7D+9PzQlAPXufqz NdtuGM15A74KFylGRtbiMwe14pgxgHoOuGqjIQzp/eRa22Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IaXo2+XTzCk35RGfwtfle3u916LAa38WSadb3uwmMRBcU2d9OMfWnHLWefhHVs4phCDM0NmE9HxLZKW7OfYON0= X-Received: by 2002:adf:9d14:: with SMTP id k20mr1950782wre.97.1550825481680; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 00:51:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Rajesh Kumar Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 14:21:10 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Any ideal way to run FIO benchmarking for NVMEe devices in FreeBSD To: FreeBSD Hackers X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2F8D78A025 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=tOfPQ8LD; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rajfbsd@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::42b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rajfbsd@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.23 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.74)[ip: (-9.37), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.26), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.48)[-0.478,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 08:51:24 -0000 Hi, I am trying to run FIO benchmark test with NVMe devices and see how FreeBSD performs. There are lot of variables and combination. So, can anyone suggest a Ideal way to do FIO benchmarking in FreeBSD? My intent is to check what is the maximum throughput and IOPS the device delivers in FreeBSD. Few questions regarding the same, 1. Should we use "posixaio" as the ioengine (or) something else? 2. Should we use single thread (or) multiple threads for test? If multiple threads, how can we decide on the optimal thread count? 3. Should we use "raw device files" (Eg: nvme namespace file - /dev/nvme0ns1) without filesystem (or) use a mounted filesystem with a regular file (Eg: /mnt/nvme/test1). Looks like raw device files give better numbers. 4. Should we use a shared file (or) one file per thread? 5. I believe 1Job should be fine for benchmarking. (or) should we try multiple jobs? Please let me know your suggestions. Also, please suggest performance tuning methods for NVMe and storage devices in general. Thanks, Rajesh. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 09:06:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0203B14E1CC6 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 09:06:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yaneurabeya@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFFA88AD96 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 09:06:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yaneurabeya@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id 196so818274pgf.13 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:06:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=lc7SrsI/WfcZ8yl6URh8E1yTTakyx/p3M49DT1DefAQ=; b=Tgk8Nh+zvqsWBsVgVPn5EsmTOmha0Rx+kuEcltnW3EySmtk275I8e6QV0DqwYRa7Pb kyuc7I6suFGY3egW8jjXQpYUdl76bKHCeaBlet/81yKNoDU0JN7WMvyju2bo/TyUAgGc AvGAV8YiW2pFPXZQJpC1HhdCUbmFk1zB3Ul2ctY0Uhlhho/EnPdkv53QzuO3bf/5eZsS UQqLoH0VTFyA65INOyTIQXbfoJ3+QLavwYsTKX/Yvkc4R1usx3AFp2+d5bYsUyN3NHOd sAJw4ZQ/7bwcxbuhh5ZtYOKG5Z6ow7iT7tL9asbSBpJP9/mgi9FHs722+/x7HET98KQe ypMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=lc7SrsI/WfcZ8yl6URh8E1yTTakyx/p3M49DT1DefAQ=; b=g/1h3+MTS9jZdZFg3s6mzUcTx61avMnq5Syt4+D3SNfNKc4mC16eFAtFcEwZleFMME H9f3HiM0vlcFKZ351Y6XOnI6l5d3jsIjSOPnQiho7Wymgk75OgXAVM+sorI1Yc/X/I2C nSgj2NR8wifXiV+OnPEHhRg/u9yWIFXgweQGf1DfmE8JevM6bq+/3nHs/Tvfy5ahIikY dl50xgHljJbvHvjx7vEdpPrqAy2Qqbg/UYE1hrSyRlyEfIhzjvRrhLQIwUrIgpTdcGhV q20d+dn6tKEM15Mi/x4LXQmQWXnPiheuvXLCO/LgDkg5UfxPW0KBRZPMIVAgFgYQMlei fQZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYpJpCv+cfWnG3jUdD6kSlOJnw80rRTHFTQT3g5QCEMvchktih/ YOmA7kzk94f4e1o+fsxJ/sH1H7ME X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IaSIljDBqytiQthkaDUDDYsO6/2UVLfR3LHNBcIHACBXyGOONIolxWRegO7DoQHVV+l+b224A== X-Received: by 2002:a62:57dd:: with SMTP id i90mr3183010pfj.154.1550826384670; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.61.32.242] (50-255-30-162-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.255.30.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g136sm3244359pfb.154.2019.02.22.01.06.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:06:23 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: Any ideal way to run FIO benchmarking for NVMEe devices in FreeBSD From: Enji Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:06:22 -0800 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0E136DED-C1AD-481C-B243-C943D4F8D9C5@gmail.com> References: To: Rajesh Kumar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: EFFA88AD96 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Tgk8Nh+z; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yaneurabeya@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::529 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yaneurabeya@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.34 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.85)[ip: (-9.59), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.61), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 09:06:27 -0000 > On Feb 22, 2019, at 12:51 AM, Rajesh Kumar wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I am trying to run FIO benchmark test with NVMe devices and see how = FreeBSD > performs. There are lot of variables and combination. So, can anyone > suggest a Ideal way to do FIO benchmarking in FreeBSD? My intent is to > check what is the maximum throughput and IOPS the device delivers in > FreeBSD. >=20 > Few questions regarding the same, >=20 > 1. Should we use "posixaio" as the ioengine (or) something else? > 2. Should we use single thread (or) multiple threads for test? If > multiple threads, how can we decide on the optimal thread count? > 3. Should we use "raw device files" (Eg: nvme namespace file - > /dev/nvme0ns1) without filesystem (or) use a mounted filesystem with = a > regular file (Eg: /mnt/nvme/test1). Looks like raw device files give = better > numbers. > 4. Should we use a shared file (or) one file per thread? > 5. I believe 1Job should be fine for benchmarking. (or) should we = try > multiple jobs? >=20 > Please let me know your suggestions. Also, please suggest performance > tuning methods for NVMe and storage devices in general. Hi Rajesh, Is there a data sheet for the NVMe device? Cheers, -Enji= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 09:29:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 641CF14E2B27 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 09:29:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rajfbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com (mail-wr1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 559F38B9FF for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 09:29:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rajfbsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id t18so1593814wrx.2 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:29:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+yNbzOMDkdpGbpe9j29wbMKv+oiZg2KgfiLx/itIWwg=; b=S9pJTAcSdlU3y5aQmTZRGYx/eGUZpz/FMOKME01r4zSID1o/PEXALj4xitXxq0+Ra/ qltOMQOlHlqzVB9u0qFSZ3r4f3tdytZ6+aRWjwwghp9o60KBwtE7e2kHHNFKWWmlKa3Z 2uVuskETg0J48riiyqAQiESq4Ky2wnzRDA0+eOaQRBuqksWgA4lf39AzUJruzimTMR/K dgZRFYzVAoFVqqH9Td4xnsY0NmQy25ZX5dCsw122+Nfy6/LCJpjkEuslJuiQkHIS8EJ6 VT7/NycDmjf6LkZeqr4nXG5WTBhgDsBko73MTjLE4SXpcok5BdIBRydstU+cbX7LhbIO 0aFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+yNbzOMDkdpGbpe9j29wbMKv+oiZg2KgfiLx/itIWwg=; b=gcwTOs719oBSb7pxPvk/eLJxV/OHyCHOGqtsa4c2vGWt/+dUFExwgRXXzKenrRbPiN vviz9+EvSFuZ0TK1vBlO83eV7Ex+MF9WdHD7kn5NZTY6o/CC8Vo8JhGILFi5mbwv1mw6 Atb7uWi63xreX9QOl5I0u/dTEooLA0EBlPSpx9PqTtMWcj0NFkDzIyc4sgmfW8zBneXt rloKdorEaep2ljWKGHJInK/Dq8MRPQXUt6R8u2Pqt5Zk2h5asDQp0N34F41JfUR7fSCb zk8aYf5krBYiBNSOxgp7/jhbV8OS0l0lHnlosLSZ5CRnbJywj1DRr9UhrFw39k5tDnxS ULOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYA4AXDx2Im6UAM0L1yBI3icqaRWn/uOgsskCPM9PNBMyPULrO9 4v7tC5VJpYAvPCeY7gwUwT4SiG4y3H9wD8SDafI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZRVYqxGsWkaLNPG9cVAER4pHxKbtRJh8YJvKnS3iTLeinfnldM2odTf1B/sFDgGTk3cdIYGjJlL1970v2M3Sw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1084:: with SMTP id y4mr2240562wrw.14.1550827780718; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 01:29:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0E136DED-C1AD-481C-B243-C943D4F8D9C5@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0E136DED-C1AD-481C-B243-C943D4F8D9C5@gmail.com> From: Rajesh Kumar Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 14:59:28 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Any ideal way to run FIO benchmarking for NVMEe devices in FreeBSD To: Enji Cooper Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 559F38B9FF X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=S9pJTAcS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rajfbsd@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::430 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rajfbsd@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.36 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.60)[-0.602,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.74)[ip: (-9.40), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.26), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 09:29:43 -0000 Hi Enji Cooper, I am using Samsung 960 PRO https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/960pro/ On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 2:36 PM Enji Cooper wrote: > > > On Feb 22, 2019, at 12:51 AM, Rajesh Kumar wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I am trying to run FIO benchmark test with NVMe devices and see how > FreeBSD > > performs. There are lot of variables and combination. So, can anyone > > suggest a Ideal way to do FIO benchmarking in FreeBSD? My intent is to > > check what is the maximum throughput and IOPS the device delivers in > > FreeBSD. > > > > Few questions regarding the same, > > > > 1. Should we use "posixaio" as the ioengine (or) something else? > > 2. Should we use single thread (or) multiple threads for test? If > > multiple threads, how can we decide on the optimal thread count? > > 3. Should we use "raw device files" (Eg: nvme namespace file - > > /dev/nvme0ns1) without filesystem (or) use a mounted filesystem with a > > regular file (Eg: /mnt/nvme/test1). Looks like raw device files give > better > > numbers. > > 4. Should we use a shared file (or) one file per thread? > > 5. I believe 1Job should be fine for benchmarking. (or) should we try > > multiple jobs? > > > > Please let me know your suggestions. Also, please suggest performance > > tuning methods for NVMe and storage devices in general. > > Hi Rajesh, > Is there a data sheet for the NVMe device? > Cheers, > -Enji From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 10:10:33 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C300D14E4CDA for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 10:10:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F16E8D4EF for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 10:10:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1MAAQYO087713 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:10:29 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua x1MAAQYO087713 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1MAAQYK087712; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:10:26 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:10:26 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Robert Ayrapetyan Cc: FreeBSD Subject: Re: ptrace: SIGTRAP and EXIT race Message-ID: <20190222101026.GX2420@kib.kiev.ua> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on tom.home X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 10:10:33 -0000 On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 08:43:20PM -0800, Robert Ayrapetyan wrote: > Hello. > > Before creating a bug and providing some test code, would ask a community > here. > When tracing a process using ptrace and there are multiple threads in the > tracing process hitting the same breakpoint, sometimes main thread exits > (WIFEXITED(status) is TRUE) before last queued TRAP_BKPT signal(s) have > been delivered to the tracing process. So a final breakpoint hits counter > is less than it should be. > > So in the example below: > > #include > #include > > #include > > static const int num_threads = 2; > > void foo() { > for (int i = 0; i < 2; ++i) { > printf("hi: %d (tid: %d)\n", i, pthread_getthreadid_np()); > } > } > > int main() { > std::thread t[num_threads]; > > for (int i = 0; i < num_threads; ++i) { > t[i] = std::thread(foo); > } > > for (int i = 0; i < num_threads; ++i) { > t[i].join(); > } > > return 0; > } > > If we set breakpoint to printf, it should be triggered 4 times (tracing > process should receive TRAP_BKPT 4 times). However, in ~1 of 5 runs, it > receives TRAP_BKPT just 2 or 3 times. > > Is this expected? Thanks. I indeed would expect that all four breakpoints triggered before the main thread exits, assuming that the breakpoints were installed before the threads are created. Please provide the stand-alone (and preferrably non-interactive) test to reproduce the issue. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 11:20:16 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4795414E6DFD for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 11:20:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pieter@degoeje.nl) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 367BC8F4B4 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 11:20:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pieter@degoeje.nl) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1550834410; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=degoeje.nl; h=In-Reply-To:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=yiTj9JsA/thfD2ERLx20+mF1YzSTgfmRNPKsQpXiP8E=; b=dRvVAK4+7z7eZcZPFArQ/BbW5/RARXia2JtTFWN6Upzr6eSU3y/PWRv2vbDWe6V8Bu I2Gnralb3JVssEtAMgUDCu1iNPWPFQRsXwfxQqaBcNLkxIa5v5x5+n0/+S5hxsMIgs1j JR/8qodmU+XY4ognUeAw2u95wvTw5M/n/c31Idc92PElzX/7Pp1R98iqvOR869xGZvF+ FCbxrQlROW4VTXQjYMjDkTBSDeqel+eXGHz/jyJsYo7rgePfSXQ7L/u+eAyL0mdweySY latR8XLbsV4z+rJ7Bw6BiuePNkDdyhFlkwjhRu4CN5UOeJqllCG5GLLjkbVL5JZzUvdV uwYg== X-RZG-AUTH: ":PGUBYUW6W/vjKUwSpXdHbXp/KlnzhfjpGaq9ccFSB01ZbYSz0XXyHEnBMb8k5m4K" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from [192.168.1.108] by smtp.strato.com (RZmta 44.9 AUTH) with ESMTPSA id 202019v1MBJZp0W (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:19:35 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Optimize execution of processes by CPU core To: Eugene Grosbein , Farhan Khan , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <2fcd9aee092730e11880c3ae88de4898@farhan.codes> From: Pieter de Goeje Message-ID: <7ff616b5-03c5-7650-d28b-6e85e8aa5f0e@degoeje.nl> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:19:35 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: nl Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 367BC8F4B4 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=degoeje.nl header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=dRvVAK4+ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[degoeje.nl:s=strato-dkim-0002]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[degoeje.nl]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[smtp.rzone.de]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[degoeje.nl:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.50)[-0.504,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.86)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.67), asn: 6724(-0.64), country: DE(-0.01)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 11:20:16 -0000 Op 20-2-2019 om 19:19 schreef Eugene Grosbein: > 21.02.2019 0:35, Farhan Khan via freebsd-hackers wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am trying to optimize the execution of a CPU-intensive workload where I am running multiple instances of a program. >> The moment the program ends (expected behavior), the calling shell script verifies the results and if its good it reruns the program. >> The machines I am running this on have 8 cores, but ps reports that some of the processes frequently run on the same CPU, >> so I suspect I am not getting optimized performance. > > System scheduler switches useland processed from one CPU core to another often enough > so each CPU has even load and you cannot see that with naked. But you can easily verify > if load is even or not checking sysctl kern.cp_times that shows five monotonically increasing > counters per each CPU core. For example, in case of dual-core system: > > $ sysctl kern.cp_times > kern.cp_times: 14789486 132229 14016113 327160 949428773 14374865 139326 12056998 2941012 949179638 > $ sysctl kern.clockrate > kern.clockrate: { hz = 1000, tick = 1000, profhz = 8126, stathz = 127 } > > There are "stathz" ticks per second and for each core exactly one of five counters is incremented by one: > user, nice, system, interrupt, idle. That is, each 5th counter is incremented > if corresponding CPU core was idle during "the tick". > > You can save output of sysctl kern.cp_times, run your test, stop it and save output again. > Then compare difference of each 5th counter and they should be approximately equal. > > You can even draw graphs if you periodically get samples of the sysctl, compute diffs with previous samples, > divide diffs by period length in seconds and then divide again by "stathz" value. > Multiply by 100 to get idle time of single CPU code in percents for the period. > Repeat for each core. > > I use net-mgmt/mrtg to draw such per-CPU graphs for my servers, it works just fine. `top -P` does the same thing. It displays a user/nice/system/interrupt/idle line for each CPU. - Pieter From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 11:24:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBB314E71E6 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 11:24:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d12:604::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95B688F90F for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 11:24:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1MBOKnZ073724 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:24:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: pieter@degoeje.nl Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1MBOJva076716 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 22 Feb 2019 18:24:19 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: Optimize execution of processes by CPU core To: Pieter de Goeje , Farhan Khan , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <2fcd9aee092730e11880c3ae88de4898@farhan.codes> <7ff616b5-03c5-7650-d28b-6e85e8aa5f0e@degoeje.nl> From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <48cee7c5-6d46-b0d3-08e0-64bd1fb419c6@grosbein.net> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 18:24:12 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7ff616b5-03c5-7650-d28b-6e85e8aa5f0e@degoeje.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 95B688F90F X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=permerror (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eugen@grosbein.net uses mechanism not recognized by this client) smtp.mailfrom=eugen@grosbein.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.65 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MX_INVALID(0.50)[greylisted]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grosbein.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_PERMFAIL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.74)[-0.744,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.31)[ip: (-1.88), ipnet: 2a01:4f8::/29(-2.41), asn: 24940(-2.23), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 11:24:43 -0000 22.02.2019 18:19, Pieter de Goeje wrote: > `top -P` does the same thing. It displays a user/nice/system/interrupt/idle line for each CPU. Sure, but it does not show accumulated monotonic numbers needed to draw reliable graphs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 12:28:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F9314E9F45 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:28:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rebecca@bluestop.org) Received: from muon.bluestop.org (muon.bluestop.org [96.73.9.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 339706B3D4 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:28:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rebecca@bluestop.org) Received: from muon.bluestop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.bluestop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D353382812; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 05:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from muon.bluestop.org ([127.0.0.1]) by muon.bluestop.org (muon.bluestop.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id up9mo3BA8mDp; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 05:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from photon.int.bluestop.org (gw.bluestop.org [96.73.9.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.bluestop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 05:29:30 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Any ideal way to run FIO benchmarking for NVMEe devices in FreeBSD To: Rajesh Kumar , FreeBSD Hackers References: From: Rebecca Cran Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 05:28:35 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 339706B3D4 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.87 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bluestop.org:s=mail]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.93)[ip: (-9.73), ipnet: 96.64.0.0/11(-4.30), asn: 7922(-0.53), country: US(-0.07)]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.935,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bluestop.org:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bluestop.org,quarantine]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.bluestop.org]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:96.64.0.0/11, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:28:45 -0000 On 2/22/19 1:51 AM, Rajesh Kumar wrote: > 1. Should we use "posixaio" as the ioengine (or) something else? > 2. Should we use single thread (or) multiple threads for test? If > multiple threads, how can we decide on the optimal thread count? > 3. Should we use "raw device files" (Eg: nvme namespace file - > /dev/nvme0ns1) without filesystem (or) use a mounted filesystem with a > regular file (Eg: /mnt/nvme/test1). Looks like raw device files give better > numbers. > 4. Should we use a shared file (or) one file per thread? > 5. I believe 1Job should be fine for benchmarking. (or) should we try > multiple jobs? I just ran a quick test on a filesystem on my machine which has an M.2 NVMe drive, and it seems posixaio performs pretty poorly compared to the sync ioengine: around 700 MB/s vs. 1100 MB/s! I _was_ going to suggest using posixaio and setting iodepth to something like 32, but since it performs badly I'd suggest playing around with the numjobs parameter and seeing where the best performance is achieved - whether that's latency or throughput. On my system, single-threaded achieves ~530 MB/s, 8 jobs/threads 1150 MB/s and 32 1840 MB/s with a 4 KB block size. Bumping the block size from 4 KB to 16 KB makes the throughput more jumpy, but appears to average 2300 MB/s when used with 32 jobs. -- Rebecca Cran From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 15:01:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55E3F14EEC80 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:01:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f47.google.com (mail-lf1-f47.google.com [209.85.167.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62872702CB for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:01:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f47.google.com with SMTP id q11so1952150lfd.3 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:01:40 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7++tnCrmDTB0i3eFkgK+CLZVB8QgnRjWQzQxkBPfH6k=; b=FAXwUc5M0QooJTqICo71qxgg1uIdv/mZvTpFd52UYiM7jtMwuXhWYaovjsNUt1kfxl 54TpjWjilgevteqIGcEyNRwukc8e26ZCdUm8BV5JbthV9/AvTra+/NNniUSarpFgScx2 SSjcZ7zgu7/seol8VxQRSXopOgL3g70opaDWaPOg5Ey0tquHDaPJcMhP6Rb1FpudAtMi dMXpCvw93CIvSA3xG9rsiiQCtHhFM/r4Vm57ny1kWn/ZZg0VYvOJJcKI7+aOhfVKLWrL ffTzC57i3EWOK7xKzOtxsbyqQIV0BrCFyZr7/TnqyrAAxN6E61+2PD3NQR9DiDOeLcif Vldg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubr5R8zWqIbYziKPonv5aZVUCuxbK5xuPf0h9JQ8RwPZDtQA470 QB9GHcun/o5UHQE9n8yAzGJLyZkJCmh/xFMX8ME= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZBdtpHuu0lhZnE7AqXcUh0YPwhGsPLu8048RJC9YiPTJZhfWb7sWS8RgKJ445Y7s3l1U7DqlYS6FEraFYdAIo= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4343:: with SMTP id o3mr2406691lfl.129.1550847327774; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 06:55:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alan Somers Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:55:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Any ideal way to run FIO benchmarking for NVMEe devices in FreeBSD To: Rebecca Cran Cc: Rajesh Kumar , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 62872702CB X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of asomers@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=asomers@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.22 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[47.167.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.923,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; IP_SCORE(-1.29)[ip: (-0.57), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.80), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:01:41 -0000 On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 5:29 AM Rebecca Cran via freebsd-hackers wrote: > > On 2/22/19 1:51 AM, Rajesh Kumar wrote: > > 1. Should we use "posixaio" as the ioengine (or) something else? > > 2. Should we use single thread (or) multiple threads for test? If > > multiple threads, how can we decide on the optimal thread count? > > 3. Should we use "raw device files" (Eg: nvme namespace file - > > /dev/nvme0ns1) without filesystem (or) use a mounted filesystem with a > > regular file (Eg: /mnt/nvme/test1). Looks like raw device files give better > > numbers. > > 4. Should we use a shared file (or) one file per thread? > > 5. I believe 1Job should be fine for benchmarking. (or) should we try > > multiple jobs? > > > I just ran a quick test on a filesystem on my machine which has an M.2 > NVMe drive, and it seems posixaio performs pretty poorly compared to the > sync ioengine: around 700 MB/s vs. 1100 MB/s! When AIO is run on a filesystem, it uses an internal thread pool to process requests. But if you run it on a bare drive, then the I/O is direct and should be faster than the sync ioengine. -Alan > > I _was_ going to suggest using posixaio and setting iodepth to something > like 32, but since it performs badly I'd suggest playing around with the > numjobs parameter and seeing where the best performance is achieved - > whether that's latency or throughput. > > > On my system, single-threaded achieves ~530 MB/s, 8 jobs/threads 1150 > MB/s and 32 1840 MB/s with a 4 KB block size. > > Bumping the block size from 4 KB to 16 KB makes the throughput more > jumpy, but appears to average 2300 MB/s when used with 32 jobs. > > > -- > Rebecca Cran > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 15:11:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBF614EF30E for ; 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IP_SCORE(-0.08)[ip: (4.27), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.62), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:11:32 -0000 On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 8:04 AM Alan Somers wrote: > On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 5:29 AM Rebecca Cran via freebsd-hackers > wrote: > > > > On 2/22/19 1:51 AM, Rajesh Kumar wrote: > > > 1. Should we use "posixaio" as the ioengine (or) something else? > > > 2. Should we use single thread (or) multiple threads for test? If > > > multiple threads, how can we decide on the optimal thread count? > > > 3. Should we use "raw device files" (Eg: nvme namespace file - > > > /dev/nvme0ns1) without filesystem (or) use a mounted filesystem > with a > > > regular file (Eg: /mnt/nvme/test1). Looks like raw device files > give better > > > numbers. > > > 4. Should we use a shared file (or) one file per thread? > > > 5. I believe 1Job should be fine for benchmarking. (or) should we > try > > > multiple jobs? > > > > > > I just ran a quick test on a filesystem on my machine which has an M.2 > > NVMe drive, and it seems posixaio performs pretty poorly compared to the > > sync ioengine: around 700 MB/s vs. 1100 MB/s! > > When AIO is run on a filesystem, it uses an internal thread pool to > process requests. But if you run it on a bare drive, then the I/O is > direct and should be faster than the sync ioengine. > Here's the script I typically use to get first pass raw numbers. The key to getting good benchmark numbers is getting as many I/O requests on the device as possible. At present, posixaio is the only thing outside of the kernel that can do that. I usually get close to datasheet numbers using this test: ; SSD testing: 128k I/O 64 jobs 32 deep queue [global] direct=1 rw=randread refill_buffers norandommap randrepeat=0 bs=128k ioengine=posixaio iodepth=128 numjobs=64 runtime=30 group_reporting thread [nvme128k] And I agree with Alan: to get the best numbers, you need to go to the raw device. I've not cared about from userland I/O performance, so I've not looked at making the UFS or ZFS cases work better in fio. Warner > > > I _was_ going to suggest using posixaio and setting iodepth to something > > like 32, but since it performs badly I'd suggest playing around with the > > numjobs parameter and seeing where the best performance is achieved - > > whether that's latency or throughput. > > > > > > On my system, single-threaded achieves ~530 MB/s, 8 jobs/threads 1150 > > MB/s and 32 1840 MB/s with a 4 KB block size. > > > > Bumping the block size from 4 KB to 16 KB makes the throughput more > > jumpy, but appears to average 2300 MB/s when used with 32 jobs. > > > > > > -- > > Rebecca Cran > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 15:54:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6451314F0DF2 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:54:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yaneurabeya@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com (mail-pl1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E2737281F for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:54:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yaneurabeya@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id y10so1294860plp.0 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:54:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=BNu9+jfFoQpv/gQuM2zZXzM0X4QR3A4u+0LX3iYFn8w=; b=gR5wQk45YE3uVaFat+qZ7hXkpJTU38OI2MY6GqkhDvNQklR9iIt2zc3LhQngH84bQw BCQCtLUBM5oRJgk9eLgN5H+a2f7xiaPhKOik4DKD7/RlPJw6AKneR9483TfU3Nw6uCBJ wabl5qVEbto1FZ1/apmAdCaueV2SnpdF/63g2ThvJXmuVOihJeFqg2yrCDjSqTw2cAEf tvfaW0iIcct5R+AHL30vOm7R4l9oqbTKUGaPOu7VtimYa77XoFT1GlDGcA4uWLV41l3v JOBQf4gB8E3Tn29a7J87GwFl3Sk+rQggbBCs1f/156XCvR/iLcrJSN3qxopHc8Qne4b7 wMIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=BNu9+jfFoQpv/gQuM2zZXzM0X4QR3A4u+0LX3iYFn8w=; b=sq3djwYKs5X6Z5RDtA8H3PVJ70xxIMdMQWgkv75w+BlOoBvKhd1jCLeyZxXjSsKBb1 65ZCexJwsr8CLOColv0dgspXYbYTghwv3D7fKOwSBcm04pTg2V9rMlLTRxOe7XXg/MBt 3gOjOScvff9es24nkT1+MwZTPDJk/5YMLU5uW5h64mkQhTw+J9SPXdySoF2il2hJa5lj slyPnWteYLrkpbToK+Itr6TCkkWfMgD2v7WljuLg93uTHyW1u4VjKZ8BSxElRFx33uTM UPRt5iiZ06G9ES2em+bgVMn25xFlNCNQVkDCLjL4pWFX+ab1163W5RLQQAhqoM2N9JsL OfKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubS5TkjRuWEIyHC6i7h1PzTEdQEgL5mtQSqCkRoizETMZ4nVTKG bEhsUX+IT2yV8sMABu7ZJJs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbtHYy4SfHqJTBj0WN5cPcEaJnQ/a5+W4ximaGyO0xcdgSUzSNe3pr6D2mGJdGNVv02ZKtlvQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6b08:: with SMTP id o8mr4792972plk.105.1550850875591; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2607:fb90:9ce1:40d1:ed66:b39f:a9eb:5412? ([2607:fb90:9ce1:40d1:ed66:b39f:a9eb:5412]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g128sm2665590pfb.121.2019.02.22.07.54.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:54:35 -0800 (PST) From: Enji Cooper Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Any ideal way to run FIO benchmarking for NVMEe devices in FreeBSD Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 07:51:44 -0800 Message-Id: References: <0E136DED-C1AD-481C-B243-C943D4F8D9C5@gmail.com> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers In-Reply-To: To: Rajesh Kumar X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16D57) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2E2737281F X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=gR5wQk45; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yaneurabeya@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::630 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yaneurabeya@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.30 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.80)[ip: (-9.33), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.62), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:54:38 -0000 > On Feb 22, 2019, at 01:29, Rajesh Kumar wrote: >=20 > Hi Enji Cooper, >=20 > I am using Samsung 960 PRO >=20 > https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/960pro= / Hi Rajesh, I asked about the datasheet, because there might be some hints in terms o= f the number of parallel jobs you might want to apply as well as the I/O que= ue depth, which will affect the performance of the drive. Otherwise you=E2=80= =99ll be throwing values against a wall, seeing what will stick, which is so= rt of ok if you bound your testing and adjust based on performance, but if y= our initial hunch is off, it can mislead you. Similarly, check to see if there are any tunables or sysctls that will b= ound the device in terms of the queue depth and I/O requests. As others have noted, test the device directly if you want to know its r= aw performance. Only test with a filesystem if your intent is to see how the= device will perform with a filesystem on it (and disable filesystem sync if= you want to test max throughput with the overhead of a filesystem). Testing= with a filesystem can reveal some potentially interesting characteristics, i= n terms of limitations in VFS / the filesystem implementation, which might b= e helpful if you=E2=80=99re trying to determine why there=E2=80=99s a differ= ence between raw device speed and the speed with a filesystem on it. Testing= with the same file in different directories is ok, as long as you blow the d= rive cache=E2=80=94which will have a noticeable performance impact on conven= tional (PMR, SMR, etc) drives, as you want to test the worst case speed of t= he device, instead of the cache. It should matter a bit less with faster dev= ices like SSDs/NVMe drives. Testing with files in the same lateral filesyste= m hierarchy (same directory), might reveal issues with filesystem locking (d= irectory inode performance), but that shouldn=E2=80=99t be the primary goal o= f your testing. It=E2=80=99s just something to keep in mind. Happy testing! HTH, -Enji= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Feb 22 23:58:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C98914FEB97 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 23:58:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert.ayrapetyan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x344.google.com (mail-ot1-x344.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::344]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D79A98DB57 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 23:58:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert.ayrapetyan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x344.google.com with SMTP id b3so3380285otp.4 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:58:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=soYGC/v8NIHCGviKqxuvfyCePB/gMJaDlGaTddxXMYk=; b=m9Wcc0qKQU+FMULnhLqtAyuVDCUyzmS7tq6a0rWh5peV5qwpY9i5H4Q/lkOk7j3cxI 2uTALj2QVPmOcIgrahDVPPFKpXB1NPlwp44A7UsElJZTNTcmHHg74sYaa3gamxT5r3H4 UWHpQCH9DC8npJi/+ZsZr/Iql/fsO3jFUK8/Fr+BK9farsY1bZg7K8V10os6TwvVdEIP KevEqmKcc/i+gmFB2DLw6ZFtV4MvSKBBLKNasDW16TYJL5hVq28v7BZRLyrPL5wBXTPR 1Km9E9nfa0tqgAlCUR0cY5wZQGxX+QyE+IChf8/TLUN3PS1nhXdqLtSdHHqserTvhHQA BOyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=soYGC/v8NIHCGviKqxuvfyCePB/gMJaDlGaTddxXMYk=; b=G2lCh1kilPRcxLA2t/TYr8RrFJlk2VC1EWG8pgfHWUk2yXMfyjszV5CU5yehyyBZ6U RDagvUFCGqKyB6980fglLdj3DrhDn00UXs1Xe0SNSk9otLLnVRiGWhsfLJ85Rwv9fGE/ z51BSRJuDWweeGY5QIRh47ctno3mwDFGMWZmkJwsm9zLU/aCl4/MsySHCjfou6Kw0Fkh NWNf1oJQDbRgotYD2EkJJ5pCIbl/vTLtS/PNbKyVfko7EJ1KxtCnKhUUEtMoQ01VQC7u iqjrfnEQbpSw+WW+HGVS9CtcNraJUuEV8UEYzvlgH/QvZeheBEF8rp2C5T0N18eEazxC 0jpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYU+Ir2nLqc3lfgxiFG4dcfh2epOkKG/P0iOnDiUc5DCEIrTUd/ 45tGhvDrpKEVQx/+oiu3iJSH4bHN49SQmcZUng== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYWKyp+dS38QCEu6Fyf4+hM/EgryXnXoOn6wUCQe3B3bEazJRd4XGrYbBWDAJjDzUmJ7LYnyIqnuShRjKo8ICI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1c1:: with SMTP id r1mr4234258ota.229.1550879905872; Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:58:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190222101026.GX2420@kib.kiev.ua> In-Reply-To: <20190222101026.GX2420@kib.kiev.ua> From: Robert Ayrapetyan Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:57:49 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: ptrace: SIGTRAP and EXIT race To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: FreeBSD X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D79A98DB57 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 23:58:27 -0000 Hi, thanks for a prompt reply. Here are the instructions of how to reproduce (sorry for inconvenient way of specifying BP address when running app): uname -a FreeBSD XXX 12.0-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE-p3 GENERIC amd64 cd /tmp git clone https://github.com/rayrapetyan/ptrace_bug_poc.git cd ptrace_bug_poc mkdir build cd build cmake .. make Run ~20 times: /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/ptrace_test/ptrace_test /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example 0x201385 ------- Note: make sure 0x201385 is a call to in "/tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example": gdb /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example disassemble foo ------- Wait fo appearance of: "BOOM! Invalid BP hits counter (hits: 1, tid: XXXX)" at the end of the output (most of the times it will be "SUCCESS") Thanks. On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 2:10 AM Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 08:43:20PM -0800, Robert Ayrapetyan wrote: > > Hello. > > > > Before creating a bug and providing some test code, would ask a community > > here. > > When tracing a process using ptrace and there are multiple threads in the > > tracing process hitting the same breakpoint, sometimes main thread exits > > (WIFEXITED(status) is TRUE) before last queued TRAP_BKPT signal(s) have > > been delivered to the tracing process. So a final breakpoint hits counter > > is less than it should be. > > > > So in the example below: > > > > #include > > #include > > > > #include > > > > static const int num_threads = 2; > > > > void foo() { > > for (int i = 0; i < 2; ++i) { > > printf("hi: %d (tid: %d)\n", i, pthread_getthreadid_np()); > > } > > } > > > > int main() { > > std::thread t[num_threads]; > > > > for (int i = 0; i < num_threads; ++i) { > > t[i] = std::thread(foo); > > } > > > > for (int i = 0; i < num_threads; ++i) { > > t[i].join(); > > } > > > > return 0; > > } > > > > If we set breakpoint to printf, it should be triggered 4 times (tracing > > process should receive TRAP_BKPT 4 times). However, in ~1 of 5 runs, it > > receives TRAP_BKPT just 2 or 3 times. > > > > Is this expected? Thanks. > > I indeed would expect that all four breakpoints triggered before the > main thread exits, assuming that the breakpoints were installed before > the threads are created. Please provide the stand-alone (and preferrably > non-interactive) test to reproduce the issue. > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Feb 23 11:32:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565C81511D3E for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2019 11:32:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E06686A10 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2019 11:32:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x1NBWk5K035938 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 23 Feb 2019 13:32:49 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua x1NBWk5K035938 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x1NBWkEt035937; Sat, 23 Feb 2019 13:32:46 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 13:32:46 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Robert Ayrapetyan Cc: FreeBSD Subject: Re: ptrace: SIGTRAP and EXIT race Message-ID: <20190223113246.GH2420@kib.kiev.ua> References: <20190222101026.GX2420@kib.kiev.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on tom.home X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 11:32:55 -0000 On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 03:57:49PM -0800, Robert Ayrapetyan wrote: > Hi, thanks for a prompt reply. Here are the instructions of how to > reproduce (sorry for inconvenient way of specifying BP address when running > app): > > uname -a > FreeBSD XXX 12.0-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE-p3 GENERIC amd64 > > cd /tmp > git clone https://github.com/rayrapetyan/ptrace_bug_poc.git > cd ptrace_bug_poc > mkdir build > cd build > cmake .. > make > > Run ~20 times: > > /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/ptrace_test/ptrace_test > /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example 0x201385 > > ------- > Note: make sure 0x201385 is a call to in > "/tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example": > gdb /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example > disassemble foo > ------- > > Wait fo appearance of: > "BOOM! Invalid BP hits counter (hits: 1, tid: XXXX)" > at the end of the output (most of the times it will be "SUCCESS") > ~700 lines of C++ code definitely do not fall under the 'minimal repro' spec. I do not to read all of it. >From looking at Debugger::Launch(), it seems that you missed the required debugger/child synchronization for PT_TRACE_ME. Typically child does raise(SIGSTOP); immediately after PT_TRACE_ME, and the tracer must consume this signal. Otherwise the child continues the execution and might just execute the place where you intend to set a breakpoint. I may missed the sync (or it might be done by other means in your code), because as I said, I do not want to read 700 lines of C++. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Feb 23 16:02:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96DE1151AF9D for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2019 16:02:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert.ayrapetyan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x32a.google.com (mail-ot1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AB2090E4B for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2019 16:02:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert.ayrapetyan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id c18so4410636otl.13 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2019 08:02:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5QnD0QAhCma/VJGtPWkuvzCupwDN7O9Zs3v0IZ3E6jk=; b=R581xzvAC6wYoIsY5PbaaijxbAMjBbOAm3krm/+F3/KsxRlXvmeorKUi8UYTEYxYKB U57C+Vq4tVlAamQP2ghL/lh66hWxbZ7c4V9F3D4rnRrZMjfLLQggXvdfQ5DE4S+A72GG RMyJA6wfVJqzcnQbTUrJE7LDdm0gNK6KFL0ynBVtAWSSAt4HOeXTsJk3vl5korEz1+pg KdGLvyCD8Mn+KWmtPOufePMv/RphLxeWO+5pJvhoW3I4ucw2JTiY9wYwcnoyiQ+LPojd zjm5cCh1OZ3qGN1SUks+OmuxuOQJxOt2UBfi2jhC98c5WW8hnX8xCxgVBfGeuRohVe9t nXLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5QnD0QAhCma/VJGtPWkuvzCupwDN7O9Zs3v0IZ3E6jk=; b=f6zHa3MXbHL+jFbZlEdW5gBdMTHQmjs7z4zIIx7J2tePZNpPj82Es33QBExuKwOE7g vAokJsQNr7M6owvEG/A5z/uVZI19yBCbCGb7nrLyDZ/lMTcSo0S5lqtoMP12qH7Y3MQ6 THgI7tCorrj1jINaCA14KQ+lkR7az3BOecbvFvJVCS/lj5afOfxcsXp8i3f9qrBhywTD 7uDAdQLMAdP+cjYIcBUawbmxrbyBRgnZj5N5phQc4s4hXe6BCXLj9OLE1SxWhz4oPLYD L40bEPY3PGiJ44d+Zryrlfr06Id/+q0QUqPmxvaskzsjBJSIRfM7gHy0zleBp5p3A5WD zOWg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubpJbVSV6dMCbfN+kseYJC5Jaeuv4OIM1YqZqIyRraXYEat8/A5 tgtwwCm6jJRc52AC/IM1KSchl1yzk0Ba0a0Ctr/j5k8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IY0XNE3gCnQ4BLzZtpieZWmFI5uL1dZPg8843KDC6Wj0W6fo6Mio/AmuZaMz/G95JSuxGH+RF1aVGSKsoM9Ayk= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6c98:: with SMTP id c24mr6124253otr.351.1550937764168; Sat, 23 Feb 2019 08:02:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190222101026.GX2420@kib.kiev.ua> <20190223113246.GH2420@kib.kiev.ua> In-Reply-To: <20190223113246.GH2420@kib.kiev.ua> From: Robert Ayrapetyan Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 08:02:07 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: ptrace: SIGTRAP and EXIT race To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: FreeBSD X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1AB2090E4B X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.94 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.937,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 16:02:45 -0000 raise(SIGSTOP) is not necessary - child stops by itself on the first instruction after execve. Let's see what's in these 700 lines of code: Read\Write memory (this is for Add\Remove breakpoints); TrapWait (main debugger cycle, handles threads born\destroy); Init\Launch\Attach - this is all necessary to bootstrap; GetNumLwps\GetLwpList - misc, you can't work with threads without these; Step\Continue - self explanatory, you can't reproduce BP issue without these functions; GetRegs\SetRegs\GetEip\SetEip - all are needed for handling logic around BPs. That's it! There is one more function - EntryPoint, it just retrieves the entry point from executable, you can ignore it. If you can do the same using less amount of code (with all error checks in place) - perfect, but I'm afraid it will not be less than 500 lines. So if you don't like - just don't do that, no one can force you to lol. Thanks! On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 3:32 AM Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 03:57:49PM -0800, Robert Ayrapetyan wrote: > > Hi, thanks for a prompt reply. Here are the instructions of how to > > reproduce (sorry for inconvenient way of specifying BP address when > running > > app): > > > > uname -a > > FreeBSD XXX 12.0-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE-p3 GENERIC amd64 > > > > cd /tmp > > git clone https://github.com/rayrapetyan/ptrace_bug_poc.git > > cd ptrace_bug_poc > > mkdir build > > cd build > > cmake .. > > make > > > > Run ~20 times: > > > > /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/ptrace_test/ptrace_test > > /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example 0x201385 > > > > ------- > > Note: make sure 0x201385 is a call to in > > "/tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example": > > gdb /tmp/ptrace_bug_poc/build/src/mt_example/mt_example > > disassemble foo > > ------- > > > > Wait fo appearance of: > > "BOOM! Invalid BP hits counter (hits: 1, tid: XXXX)" > > at the end of the output (most of the times it will be "SUCCESS") > > > > ~700 lines of C++ code definitely do not fall under the 'minimal repro' > spec. I do not to read all of it. > > From looking at Debugger::Launch(), it seems that you missed the > required debugger/child synchronization for PT_TRACE_ME. Typically child > does > raise(SIGSTOP); > immediately after PT_TRACE_ME, and the tracer must consume this signal. > Otherwise the child continues the execution and might just execute the > place where you intend to set a breakpoint. I may missed the sync (or it > might be done by other means in your code), because as I said, I do not > want to read 700 lines of C++. > >