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NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[juniper.net,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[juniper.net:s=PPS1017,juniper.net:s=selector1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:67.231.152.164]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[67.231.152.164:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22843, ipnet:67.231.152.0/24, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[sjg]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[juniper.net:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[11] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4VVkQP22Bpz4nQM We have a need for a kernel keyring or similar functionality to allow offloading crypto operations from a TPM. The basic idea is a master keyring key wrapped by TPM. The TPM needs to unwrap it before it can be used, but that is all the TPM needs to do. This would likely need to be done frequently - at least in FIPS mode we cannot leave idle keys unprotected in memory. The encrypted keyring would not count, so we still reduce load on the TPM. The folk looking for this have done a proof of concept on Linux leveraging https://docs.kernel.org/security/keys/core.html but we need similar for FreeBSD. Wondering who else might be interested, and even better if someone is already working on something similar. Thanks --sjg From nobody Sat May 4 15:34:03 2024 X-Original-To: arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VWsCg51Vdz5J2KT; Sat, 4 May 2024 15:34:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lexi@le-fay.org) Received: from fuchsia.eden.le-Fay.ORG (fuchsia.eden.le-fay.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:aab5:107::11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VWsCf07FSz4YJ2; Sat, 4 May 2024 15:34:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lexi@le-fay.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=le-fay.org header.s=fuchsia header.b=JGFD0lOw; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lexi@le-fay.org designates 2001:8b0:aab5:107::11 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lexi@le-fay.org Received: from iris.eden.le-Fay.ORG (iris.eden.le-fay.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:aab5:106:3::6]) by fuchsia.eden.le-Fay.ORG (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223AFA7A9; Sat, 04 May 2024 15:34:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=le-fay.org; s=fuchsia; t=1714836844; bh=T27hUvi9TYpOX3x/thS7tDahhyH1NFoECU8kdTvdcc0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject; b=JGFD0lOw8PlsAV10RmJew69sySAPq2sYx2gJZl8n83IYk6PbQGPl85UyVWXTY/soa nOz6juc/ILlcoLqSKs32o5CpPbZ8q6JAem+mPt0lSNk3Z/2XPv5z+F7U583206Z+lA 1zppXGkV4S/ZwP2izD/2Wc8kt9fW4bm9W0ssGMMM= Received: from ilythia.eden.le-fay.org (ilythia.eden.le-fay.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:aab5:106:3::10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) server-digest SHA384) (No client certificate requested) by iris.eden.le-Fay.ORG (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5488D2C0421; Sat, 04 May 2024 16:34:04 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 16:34:03 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: arch@freebsd.org Cc: net@freebsd.org Subject: review request: changing the default ifconfig(8) address format to CIDR Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: arch@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="atEjnsVICxrcF9zt" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spamd-Bar: ----- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.50 / 15.00]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:8b0:aab5:107::11]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[le-fay.org:s=fuchsia]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20712, ipnet:2001:8b0::/32, country:GB]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[le-fay.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[le-fay.org:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[arch@freebsd.org,net@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[le-fay.org:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4VWsCf07FSz4YJ2 --atEjnsVICxrcF9zt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline hi, i've just submitted this PR: https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/pull/1216 which contains this commit: commit 57d273c90ee1c17446236aba25ed0bd291c4f126 (HEAD -> lf/main, hemlock/lf/main) Author: Lexi Winter Date: Sat May 4 16:11:21 2024 +0100 ifconfig(8): change default IP address format to 'cidr' 'netmasks' haven't been used in IP networking for decades. Change the default address format for both IPv4 and IPv6 addreses in ifconfig(8) to 'cidr', which prints addreses in the format most users will be more familiar with. The previous format is still available using -finet:hex or -finet6:numeric. imp@ suggested i should ask arch@ and net@ about this, so here i am! i understand there might be some backward-compat concerns with scripting here, but it's well past time this change was made, and anyone who really can't update their scripts can use ifconfig -f or $IFCONFIG_FORMAT to retain the old behaviour. --atEjnsVICxrcF9zt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAABCAAdFiEEuwt6MaPcv/+Mo+ftDHqbqZ41x5kFAmY2VWgACgkQDHqbqZ41 x5lJsgv8DYjMU6b/tyS5c4pKQnHQNvo9HuvHxZ5u0wj6ixPDyQl7zavO6VUEniEG f5vp1JEtYFDpdsBgwY5d8zBMDbJpudohcuEuqIotE6MFefYhDZRoCxewogb0HWXn V0leN/WcpURxctXppL/uH16Lbt2UL/GGfwX5YJqWqW+zzCWdDD+oyECFqljMhDGN B5Nqmgx0QvzU+nDUf0poNm2uCZYB5IIoOxbokC6nqD0edhOg3WWZqI4RHagcfAle bTHzq5ph+Az9b8iIB1N2vrSbWQj8sgoxew2BXbV6jccR4O8J/eqQppONAykqnSHZ OZennSeHJGLtCvm1BVIavTLoLwCQWkKsizV9k7yskETurg+n8K3qYTnYaAMr/utB qZ95ZR3xnvzUVjfOtPxKRS9CL41bQHqawGxBTIwAv+hD+s58U+wym87uhUT3xtXy UBctmped9iTBU7sBBiDbwaJoc0vFSoSEaYnsqkCr0VuloU5lX0CrLubehHqm9KqR 6R4U2LOV =j6VJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --atEjnsVICxrcF9zt-- From nobody Sat May 4 18:35:04 2024 X-Original-To: arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VWxDh6gBjz5JML2; Sat, 4 May 2024 18:35:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4VWxDh0C4Hz40vt; Sat, 4 May 2024 18:35:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-1-21-232.area1b.commufa.jp [123.1.21.232]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.17.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 444IZ4JU023705; Sun, 5 May 2024 03:35:05 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 03:35:04 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Lexi Winter Cc: arch@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Subject: Re: review request: changing the default ifconfig(8) address format to CIDR Message-Id: <20240505033504.772826db43da54f323f5e993@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.0) List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4VWxDh0C4Hz40vt On Sat, 4 May 2024 16:34:03 +0100 Lexi Winter wrote: > hi, > > i've just submitted this PR: > > https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/pull/1216 > > which contains this commit: > > commit 57d273c90ee1c17446236aba25ed0bd291c4f126 (HEAD -> lf/main, hemlock/lf/main) > Author: Lexi Winter > Date: Sat May 4 16:11:21 2024 +0100 > > ifconfig(8): change default IP address format to 'cidr' > > 'netmasks' haven't been used in IP networking for decades. Change the > default address format for both IPv4 and IPv6 addreses in ifconfig(8) to > 'cidr', which prints addreses in the format most users will be more > familiar with. > > The previous format is still available using -finet:hex or -finet6:numeric. > > imp@ suggested i should ask arch@ and net@ about this, so here i am! > > i understand there might be some backward-compat concerns with scripting > here, but it's well past time this change was made, and anyone who > really can't update their scripts can use ifconfig -f or > $IFCONFIG_FORMAT to retain the old behaviour. Hi. If you raally want it to be landed, you should wait at least 2 major releases. Propagate the future change on Relesase Notes at 15.0, then, actually change in 16.0 shoule be the earliest. Maybe 17.0 would be reasonable. This could be toooooooo hazardous on corporate-class users having scripts/configurations for current style. We SHALL give enough YEARS for their admins to look into ALL their scripts/configuratins and fix everything affected. Moreover, if the fixes are widely affecting with their internal apps, they could need to acquire budgets to do so. Possibly, introducing environment variable set in /etc/defaults/rc.conf to select which format to use could help them. With it, they can set it to use current format for all their computers running FreeBSD until they fix all they need. Something like IP_FORMAT=CIDR or IP_FORMAT=NETMASK. Regards. -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Sat May 4 19:42:24 2024 X-Original-To: arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VWykP4lY0z5JT69 for ; Sat, 4 May 2024 19:42:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrtc27@jrtc27.com) Received: from mail-wr1-f47.google.com (mail-wr1-f47.google.com [209.85.221.47]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4VWykP31jPz4DxM for ; Sat, 4 May 2024 19:42:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrtc27@jrtc27.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-wr1-f47.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-34d99ec52e1so489080f8f.3 for ; Sat, 04 May 2024 12:42:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1714851756; x=1715456556; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6XOdtRsKjkFpY9uSvQ/n0qkpEFAOiK3ONV1vNQ2umS8=; b=BWxH+ovG1KGBBp0ihWh2wIDThkcXc+pVyVa4VAEYz8hxM0XBcIAUixXKLicUwcIYCb fxXuqssIrHfQZJdPvP2DoHtZU698Ch4lIwZYhI0vFLL4Dy07HYRgS7rdNzc3/n01K0y0 sE01+NjuoTogSGlnfXOQgK6R4Z/vsOh80RQphUAqQrwGUGAMcIi0Wo5ueVpQqJ7xpCLg UABg16gpGzwaHk6NaXO5IF5CoAUOmfQhMb9Kmb1r8J2HgeYAN6IDl+9ZKRWwgtaBj26D ZQbcWHrOoNxIg8RhAxMd08c6gqDQCRRH2mil35CsYpVbqmDcioch8bX+OasPi7aOtAzC eIyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzw01g0CgoyE59qHEIljGrBx84uxsg3nbWTVFFtL/i99kmDaEp5 Jo271iMC3q45MPgunKFe0k//+8MGw8QS6clXq5alHlyX629VvU7fNfQEWKHU9oqG30JDiOjzl// / X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG/0UmHc2kGk8Js/nm3HQWptGOP1cflzO6bpY+56r+sSV++tarsZEND/V845ZkR3E2g4Z3Kqw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1e84:b0:34d:ae55:8fb9 with SMTP id dd4-20020a0560001e8400b0034dae558fb9mr3623457wrb.66.1714851755493; Sat, 04 May 2024 12:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([131.111.5.246]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p13-20020a5d638d000000b0034de69bb4bcsm6760504wru.85.2024.05.04.12.42.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 04 May 2024 12:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.500.171.1.1\)) Subject: Re: review request: changing the default ifconfig(8) address format to CIDR From: Jessica Clarke In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 20:42:24 +0100 Cc: arch@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2A85E653-1228-4635-83A4-BED72AEE9420@freebsd.org> References: To: Lexi Winter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.500.171.1.1) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4VWykP31jPz4DxM On 4 May 2024, at 16:34, Lexi Winter wrote: > hi, >=20 > i've just submitted this PR: >=20 > https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/pull/1216 >=20 > which contains this commit: >=20 > commit 57d273c90ee1c17446236aba25ed0bd291c4f126 (HEAD -> lf/main, = hemlock/lf/main) > Author: Lexi Winter > Date: Sat May 4 16:11:21 2024 +0100 >=20 > ifconfig(8): change default IP address format to 'cidr' >=20 > 'netmasks' haven't been used in IP networking for decades. Change = the > default address format for both IPv4 and IPv6 addreses in = ifconfig(8) to > 'cidr', which prints addreses in the format most users will be more > familiar with. >=20 > The previous format is still available using -finet:hex or = -finet6:numeric. >=20 > imp@ suggested i should ask arch@ and net@ about this, so here i am! >=20 > i understand there might be some backward-compat concerns with = scripting > here, but it's well past time this change was made, and anyone who > really can't update their scripts can use ifconfig -f or > $IFCONFIG_FORMAT to retain the old behaviour. Do we need to care about supporting (/ do we currently support) historical non-contiguous netmasks? At a glance the CIDR code doesn=E2=80=99= t handle that and will stop at the first 0, so changing to that by default would break such setups. Jess From nobody Sat May 4 19:50:39 2024 X-Original-To: arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VWyvh4Gx4z5JT9h; Sat, 4 May 2024 19:50:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lexi@le-fay.org) Received: from fuchsia.eden.le-Fay.ORG (fuchsia.eden.le-fay.org [81.187.47.195]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VWyvh3bW5z4GGh; Sat, 4 May 2024 19:50:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lexi@le-fay.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from iris.eden.le-Fay.ORG (iris.eden.le-fay.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:aab5:106:3::6]) by fuchsia.eden.le-Fay.ORG (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A80DA88B; Sat, 04 May 2024 19:50:39 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=le-fay.org; s=fuchsia; t=1714852239; bh=yVnKxmyckbNoOG0JSW6AXT3CjnX3hd9Zb9S4m1D8ons=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=sclHb0DnW/v6MDIgywrSstumVw38uluNlXnRZ5WEaHLy7iRc5fi57wc2mDYuvnlAZ IuX1DuspSC2c/aXGIPh92E7DoD/m3ZFm4M9kxaBZ1Tqq3gLq6xd/yNwkw+C3SgWiC7 CqMhRWSi6WWG/3vj0jCp4Pt33DVszedWhsVB6Bww= Received: from ilythia.eden.le-fay.org (ilythia.eden.le-fay.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:aab5:106:3::10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) server-digest SHA384) (No client certificate requested) by iris.eden.le-Fay.ORG (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D1E6B2C0421; Sat, 04 May 2024 20:50:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 20:50:39 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Jessica Clarke Cc: arch@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Subject: Re: review request: changing the default ifconfig(8) address format to CIDR Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Jessica Clarke , arch@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org References: <2A85E653-1228-4635-83A4-BED72AEE9420@freebsd.org> List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uGq1e1iwJkdg74dg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2A85E653-1228-4635-83A4-BED72AEE9420@freebsd.org> X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20712, ipnet:81.187.0.0/16, country:GB] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4VWyvh3bW5z4GGh --uGq1e1iwJkdg74dg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jessica Clarke: > On 4 May 2024, at 16:34, Lexi Winter wrote: > Do we need to care about supporting (/ do we currently support) > historical non-contiguous netmasks? At a glance the CIDR code doesn=E2=80= =99t > handle that and will stop at the first 0, so changing to that by > default would break such setups. i have never had a need to try this, but i just tested it and it does not appear to be supported at least in 15.0: # ifconfig bridge2 create # ifconfig bridge2 192.0.2.1 netmask 255.0.255.0 # ifconfig bridge2 bridge2: flags=3D1008843 m= etric 0 mtu 1500 options=3D0 ether 58:9c:fc:00:16:69 inet 192.0.2.1 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 192.0.255.255 [snip] # ifconfig bridge2 destroy # ifconfig bridge2 create # ifconfig bridge2 192.0.2.1 netmask 255.255.255.88 # ifconfig bridge2 bridge2: flags=3D1008843 m= etric 0 mtu 1500 options=3D0 ether 58:9c:fc:00:16:69 inet 192.0.2.1 netmask 0xffffffe0 broadcast 192.0.2.31 [snip] (0xffffffe0 =3D 255.255.255.224) a quick Internet search suggests that non-contiguous netmasks were deprecated when CIDR was introduced, so around 1993. --uGq1e1iwJkdg74dg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAABCAAdFiEEuwt6MaPcv/+Mo+ftDHqbqZ41x5kFAmY2kYwACgkQDHqbqZ41 x5mQNwv8D+5WX257JQXFthozh0HwRkhRsqM425M4eGd/DzATCFlh0qG5zxA8u7NQ alHaVuLA2s2DtBXvzyBVpfFc5+/rNK92XAMIU6RjCdsqOyNzZ6NZHZb0phDhfz8s o/n2w1r9BeyIH1jbruD9h9uvcDDrQI2BLORcWcSk6s7aQEr3oVtpXcwYlQZhCXx1 jAXgdUtpNzEeJ4V96SeZBe5nmHTqO+PmPrVI64osPEtBfdiEo36NCHemKeri3h7b vhuv2nb1VOXNysBGtw5Klb/6jemIExknhsAXzv8whrnAZex5dAPRh1ZhPfuDZthK xnr7PgkjePp2BOrbli85UhhiLokjgMPpRcxD5zEAjurxfZbZrqAXZLXbJNRobHK9 t0/231XRx1sOXaTvd8qna2zfllZKPhyi5DNqK6A9Vr66IHqh7u0s2PM9YqAD26pK XeU6m4fuIhxNeD2yR4xT9B5crILs1jSjKpJLeokBCdXmn/snk3Je6SrnDbcZXSDw CJZZOeqK =LucQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uGq1e1iwJkdg74dg-- From nobody Sun May 5 16:23:41 2024 X-Original-To: arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VXVGh5RNyz5KF2F for ; 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boundary="000000000000fbf6df0617b76052" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4VXVGh1kW1z42h9 --000000000000fbf6df0617b76052 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll remind everybody that ifconfig has had IFCONFIG_FORMAT since ``` commit 7c2aa744374aa3449ad81f60852e74ad73d823e6 Author: Allan Jude Date: Tue May 31 17:30:08 2016 +0000 ifconfig(8) now supports some output formatting options ``` so we've already 7 years into this process. This is nothing new and the desire to migrate has been around a long time. As such, we can transition in 15, and put a release note into 14.1 release that's coming up and still give people years worth of notice. We don't need to give 4 or 5 years notice to do this in 16. That's too long and people will take their eye off the ball and it will be 17 or 18 before it happens. I've had several things I "gratuitously" had a long horizon on, only to forget about until it was too late (14.0 was supposed to have an awk that didn't decode hex number, for example). Also, broken scripts are a 1 line fix away from working, so the impact is rather small, and that one line can be set globally for people that have a lot of these scripts. The fix can be placed into the release notes as well. In addition, there's plenty of time for us to get a feel on how many scripts there actually are here. We can back off to a longer time horizon if it proves to be too disruptive. It would be even better if ifconfig, or a similar tool, could produce easy to use in scripts data (like json via libxo). I'm surprised there's no libxo option to it today. Of course these would be a more intrusive change, but would insulate us from data change like we've done in nearly every other system. I don't support more weird options, though, to make the current formats more maillable. We need to start pushing people into scripting with useful data formats. That includes doing stragglers like nvmecontrol, camcontrol, ifconfig up with libxo options. So I agree with Mike Karels's post in the bug review on this... We should do it *NOW* for 15, document well the workarounds and collect data to see if people are right about the scope. If so, we take a step back and do this in 16. If not, we go forward. This will still give corporate users 2 or 3 years to get their act together for a release (dropping in the IFCONFIG_FORMAT today in their scripts will work and keep them working well into the future with all supported FreeBSD version, and then some). Warner On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 12:35=E2=80=AFPM Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > On Sat, 4 May 2024 16:34:03 +0100 > Lexi Winter wrote: > > > hi, > > > > i've just submitted this PR: > > > > https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/pull/1216 > > > > which contains this commit: > > > > commit 57d273c90ee1c17446236aba25ed0bd291c4f126 (HEAD -> lf/main, > hemlock/lf/main) > > Author: Lexi Winter > > Date: Sat May 4 16:11:21 2024 +0100 > > > > ifconfig(8): change default IP address format to 'cidr' > > > > 'netmasks' haven't been used in IP networking for decades. Change > the > > default address format for both IPv4 and IPv6 addreses in > ifconfig(8) to > > 'cidr', which prints addreses in the format most users will be more > > familiar with. > > > > The previous format is still available using -finet:hex or > -finet6:numeric. > > > > imp@ suggested i should ask arch@ and net@ about this, so here i am! > > > > i understand there might be some backward-compat concerns with scriptin= g > > here, but it's well past time this change was made, and anyone who > > really can't update their scripts can use ifconfig -f or > > $IFCONFIG_FORMAT to retain the old behaviour. > > Hi. > > If you raally want it to be landed, you should wait at least 2 major > releases. Propagate the future change on Relesase Notes at 15.0, then, > actually change in 16.0 shoule be the earliest. Maybe 17.0 would be > reasonable. > > This could be toooooooo hazardous on corporate-class users having > scripts/configurations for current style. > > We SHALL give enough YEARS for their admins to look into ALL their > scripts/configuratins and fix everything affected. Moreover, if the > fixes are widely affecting with their internal apps, they could need to > acquire budgets to do so. > > Possibly, introducing environment variable set in /etc/defaults/rc.conf > to select which format to use could help them. With it, they can set it > to use current format for all their computers running FreeBSD until > they fix all they need. > Something like IP_FORMAT=3DCIDR or IP_FORMAT=3DNETMASK. > > Regards. > > -- > Tomoaki AOKI > > --000000000000fbf6df0617b76052 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll remind everybody that ifconfig h= as had IFCONFIG_FORMAT since
```
commit 7c2aa744374aa3449ad81f60852e7= 4ad73d823e6
Author: Allan Jude <allanjude@FreeBSD.org>
Date: = =C2=A0 Tue May 31 17:30:08 2016 +0000

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ifconfig(8) now = supports some output formatting options
```
so we've already 7 ye= ars into this process. This is nothing new and the desire to migrate has be= en around a long time. As such, we can transition in 15, and put a release = note into 14.1 release that's coming up and still give people years wor= th of notice. We don't need to give 4 or 5 years notice to do this in 1= 6. That's too long and people will take their eye off the ball and it w= ill be 17 or 18 before it happens. I've had several things I "grat= uitously" had a long horizon on, only to forget about until it was too= late (14.0 was supposed to have an awk that didn't decode hex number, = for example).

Also, broken scripts are a 1 line fix away from workin= g, so the impact is rather small, and that one line can be set globally for= people that have a lot of these scripts. The fix can be placed into the re= lease notes as well. In addition, there's plenty of time for us to get = a feel on how many scripts there actually are here. We can back off to a lo= nger time horizon if it proves to be too disruptive. It would be even bette= r if ifconfig, or a similar tool, could produce easy to use in scripts data= (like json via libxo). I'm surprised there's no libxo option to it= today. Of course these would be a more intrusive change, but would insulat= e us from data change like we've done in nearly every other system. I d= on't support more weird options, though, to make the current formats mo= re maillable. We need to start pushing people into scripting with useful da= ta formats. That includes doing stragglers like nvmecontrol, camcontrol, if= config up with libxo options.

So I agree with Mike Karels's post= in the bug review on this...=C2=A0 We should do it *NOW* for 15, document = well the workarounds and collect data to see if people are right about the = scope. If so, we take a step back and do this in 16. If not, we go forward.= This will still give corporate users 2 or 3 years to get their act togethe= r for a release (dropping in the IFCONFIG_FORMAT today in their scripts wil= l work and keep them working well into the future with all supported FreeBS= D version, and then some).

Warner
<= /div>
O= n Sat, May 4, 2024 at 12:35=E2=80=AFPM Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp> wrote:
On Sat, 4 May 2024 16:34= :03 +0100
Lexi Winter <lexi@l= e-fay.org> wrote:

> hi,
>
> i've just submitted this PR:
>
> https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/pull/121= 6
>
> which contains this commit:
>
> commit 57d273c90ee1c17446236aba25ed0bd291c4f126 (HEAD -> lf/main, h= emlock/lf/main)
> Author: Lexi Winter <lexi@le-Fay.ORG>
> Date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sat May 4 16:11:21 2024 +0100
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ifconfig(8): change default IP address format to &#= 39;cidr'
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0'netmasks' haven't been used in IP netw= orking for decades.=C2=A0 Change the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0default address format for both IPv4 and IPv6 addre= ses in ifconfig(8) to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0'cidr', which prints addreses in the format= most users will be more
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0familiar with.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The previous format is still available using -finet= :hex or -finet6:numeric.
>
> imp@ suggested i should ask arch@ and net@ about this, so here i am! >
> i understand there might be some backward-compat concerns with scripti= ng
> here, but it's well past time this change was made, and anyone who=
> really can't update their scripts can use ifconfig -f or
> $IFCONFIG_FORMAT to retain the old behaviour.

Hi.

If you raally want it to be landed, you should wait at least 2 major
releases. Propagate the future change on Relesase Notes at 15.0, then,
actually change in 16.0 shoule be the earliest. Maybe 17.0 would be
reasonable.

This could be toooooooo hazardous on corporate-class users having
scripts/configurations for current style.

We SHALL give enough YEARS for their admins to look into ALL their
scripts/configuratins and fix everything affected. Moreover, if the
fixes are widely affecting with their internal apps, they could need to
acquire budgets to do so.

Possibly, introducing environment variable set in /etc/defaults/rc.conf
to select which format to use could help them. With it, they can set it
to use current format for all their computers running FreeBSD until
they fix all they need.
Something like IP_FORMAT=3DCIDR or IP_FORMAT=3DNETMASK.

Regards.

--
Tomoaki AOKI=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp>

--000000000000fbf6df0617b76052--