From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Oct 23 20:03:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA26372 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:03:18 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA26351 ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:03:10 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id WAA12541; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 22:55:10 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 22:55:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: moving some mail. To: chat@freebsd.org cc: peter@freebsd.org, Jordan K Hubbard Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk over the last two day and a half days we have AVERAGED 3.31 kBytes of mail per SECOND. outbound ONLY. mind now that the queue is a little backed up with 2000+ messages. half of those are due to 2 sites which are having difficulties....grrrrr! i thnk we need to got to 64bit counters in the networking code....the data is moving so fast that its gone negative. happy are those who run: freefall jmb[133] uname -a FreeBSD freefall.freebsd.org 2.1-STABLE FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE #0: Wed Oct 18 03:41:51 PDT 1995 davidg@freefall.freebsd.org:/c/local/sys/compile/FREEFALL i386 freefall jmb[130] netstat -I ed0 -b Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Ibytes Opkts Oerrs Obytes Coll ed0 1500 00.00.c0.bc.55.7d 26216839 0 -969846601 32965354 0 214466319 151396 ed0 1500 192.216.222 freefall.FreeBS 26216839 0 -969846601 32965354 0 214466319 151396 freefall jmb[116] mailstats Statistics from Sat Oct 21 04:26:37 1995 M msgsfr bytes_from msgsto bytes_to Mailer 0 0 0K 2381 4611K prog 1 0 0K 718 1497K *file* 3 7806 23075K 5513 11301K local 4 1891 4994K 364769 756441K smtp 6 0 0K 18 45K relay ======================================== T 9697 28069K 373399 773895K freefall jmb[117] date Mon Oct 23 19:36:19 PDT 1995 Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 03:15:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA03028 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 03:15:35 -0700 Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02987 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 03:13:56 -0700 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA14978 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:13:30 +0100 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199510241013.LAA14978@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:13:29 +0100 (MET) Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 679 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > over the last two day and a half days we have AVERAGED 3.31 kBytes of > mail per SECOND. outbound ONLY. > > mind now that the queue is a little backed up with 2000+ messages. > half of those are due to 2 sites which are having difficulties....grrrrr! > > i thnk we need to got to 64bit counters in the networking code....the > data is moving so fast that its gone negative. Lessee. 64 bits are about 1.6e19, a year has about pi e7 seconds, we get roughly 1e6 bytes/second max from the ethernet. Makes 5e5 years until the numbers turn around. Are you implying you don't expect uptimes of a mere 500000 years (only 50000 for FDDI)??? tg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 10:00:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA21607 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:00:20 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA21602 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 10:00:12 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA03444 ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:08:52 +0100 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Oct 1995 22:55:08 EDT." Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:08:49 +0100 Message-ID: <3442.814543729@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Jonathan M. Bresler" stands accused of writing in message ID : >over the last two day and a half days we have AVERAGED 3.31 kBytes of >mail per SECOND. outbound ONLY. What isn't so impressive is those same figures only translate into 1.601 messages/second. Which means that each message has an average size of 2.07k. (call me picky, but I'd start cheering at 2-3 mails/second - 1.6 doesn't sound all that impressive, despite the fact that it probably is) >mind now that the queue is a little backed up with 2000+ messages. >half of those are due to 2 sites which are having difficulties....grrrrr! Urk. And I bet one of them is *.demon.co.uk? Apart from changing their routing setup (and running into problems with the version of gated they use, causing nasty routing failures over the past few days), their mail hosts are severly overloaded (MMDF can't cope anymore). It's annoying for me as I am now regularly getting mail from machines at cdrom.com, and also (being on the root/postmaster alias) getting the 4 hour can't send warning also. Sigh >i thnk we need to got to 64bit counters in the networking code....the >data is moving so fast that its gone negative. Part of the problem possibly is that the counters (or most of them anyhow) are (AFAIR) unsigned, but I seem to remember netstat prints (some of) them as signed... Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 12:10:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA26749 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:10:12 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26735 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:09:57 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA10509; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:58:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:58:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: Gary Palmer cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3442.814543729@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > "Jonathan M. Bresler" stands accused of writing in message ID > : > >over the last two day and a half days we have AVERAGED 3.31 kBytes of > >mail per SECOND. outbound ONLY. > > What isn't so impressive is those same figures only translate into > 1.601 messages/second. Which means that each message has an average > size of 2.07k. yeah....headers and all that. some mail contains little added information and a lot of quoted text that does not help at all. (hey! who you looking at! ;) > (call me picky, but I'd start cheering at 2-3 mails/second - 1.6 > doesn't sound all that impressive, despite the fact that it probably > is) the faster the better. puts a new prespective on the number of sendmail processes running. each one has to wait for the other end to do its thing. so maybe 30-50 sendmail processes sitting on a wait channel aint that bad after all, they dont complete for kernel resources and context switches when on a wait channel (right?). given 30 sendmails and 1.6 messages/sec either each one waits about 20 seconds average or we are in deep trouble regarding context switching...not! > >mind now that the queue is a little backed up with 2000+ messages. > >half of those are due to 2 sites which are having difficulties....grrrrr! > > Urk. And I bet one of them is *.demon.co.uk? Apart from changing their > routing setup (and running into problems with the version of gated > they use, causing nasty routing failures over the past few days), bingo! that's 1 for 1, care to guess the other? > >i thnk we need to got to 64bit counters in the networking code....the > >data is moving so fast that its gone negative. > > Part of the problem possibly is that the counters (or most of them > anyhow) are (AFAIR) unsigned, but I seem to remember netstat prints > (some of) them as signed... oh, bother! Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 13:00:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29070 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 13:00:15 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA29018 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:59:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA04607 ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:53:54 +0100 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:58:55 EDT." Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:53:49 +0100 Message-ID: <4604.814564429@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Jonathan M. Bresler" stands accused of writing in message ID : >On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > yeah....headers and all that. some mail contains little added >information and a lot of quoted text that does not help at all. (hey! >who you looking at! ;) :-) > the faster the better. puts a new prespective on the number of >sendmail processes running. each one has to wait for the other end to do >its thing. so maybe 30-50 sendmail processes sitting on a wait channel >aint that bad after all, they dont complete for kernel resources and >context switches when on a wait channel (right?). given 30 sendmails >and 1.6 messages/sec either each one waits about 20 seconds average or >we are in deep trouble regarding context switching...not! I think we either need more memory in freefall, or a dedicated spool disk or something to try and speed up delivery. I'm sure that a pentium should be able to shift more mail than that. Mebbe the T1 is starting to slow things down. > bingo! that's 1 for 1, care to guess the other? Wild guess: nimh.gttw.com? > oh, bother! I >MAY< have a patch file to fix this somewhere. Have to go digging. Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 14:56:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA05973 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:56:54 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA05961 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:56:44 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA12334 ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:55:58 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id WAA25161 ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:55:58 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id WAA10133; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:53:01 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199510242153.WAA10133@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:53:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4604.814564429@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Oct 24, 95 08:53:49 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1245 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Gary Palmer said: > pentium should be able to shift more mail than that. Mebbe the T1 is > starting to slow things down. I don't understand... David saif a while ago that freefall two hops from the backbone T3 line with a FDDI ring between it and freefall's ethernet. Where does this T-1 come from ? -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Sun Oct 22 20:22:48 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 15:06:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA06743 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:06:46 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA06738 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:06:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA09047; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:00:53 -0700 To: Ollivier Robert cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer), jmb@kryten.atinc.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:53:01 BST." <199510242153.WAA10133@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:00:53 -0700 Message-ID: <9045.814572053@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I don't understand... David saif a while ago that freefall two hops from > the backbone T3 line with a FDDI ring between it and freefall's > ethernet. Where does this T-1 come from ? That's not freefall, that's ftp.cdrom.com! Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 15:47:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA09120 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:47:08 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA09090 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:46:49 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA12746 ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:46:31 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA25336 ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:46:30 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id XAA14430; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:45:49 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199510242245.XAA14430@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:45:48 +0100 (MET) Cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, jmb@kryten.atinc.com, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9045.814572053@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 24, 95 03:00:53 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1245 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jordan K. Hubbard said: > That's not freefall, that's ftp.cdrom.com! Where's the hat please ? Anyway, I don't know if the T-1 is getting busy but intercontinental lines are almost unusable now. I have big trouble to get my ctm hunks :-( 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for cvs-cur.1250.gz (24738 bytes). ######################## 226 Transfer complete. 24738 bytes received in 1.1e+03 seconds (0.023 Kbytes/s) local: cvs-cur.1251.gz remote: cvs-cur.1251.gz 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for cvs-cur.1251.gz (15904 bytes). ############### 226 Transfer complete. 15904 bytes received in 2.5e+02 seconds (0.061 Kbytes/s) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Sun Oct 22 20:22:48 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 17:22:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA13099 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:22:38 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA13093 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:22:33 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id UAA18713; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:13:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:13:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: Ollivier Robert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510242245.XAA14430@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk its not the connection that is slowing mail delivery down to only 1.6 messages/sec, my feeling is that is the slowness of communicating with the other hosts. freefall may have a T1, but if it trying to push data down a 56kB line to kryten (my machine) that 56kB line will determine the xfer rate. a major rework or mail may be in order here. instead of direct delivery find/adopt/cajole sites to perform regional delivery. sites that are both well connected and have bandwidth available. each subscription would need to be assigned to a regional mail hub. assignments should be made on the basis of connectivity between the destination and the regional mail hub (all regional mail hubs must be well connected to freefall, else they aint gonna be regional hubs). the assignments may need to be redone every XX days/weeks as net-topology changes. or do we just go for load-balancing and round-robin the mail hub assignments....not very pleasing, but may work better. i can do the perl work in majordomo to make this happen. who can volunteer the mail hubs. what is a good measure of need connectivity? who has studied networks enough to comment from experience?? i guess this is a call for dicussion and comments....lets hear it. > 15904 bytes received in 2.5e+02 seconds (0.061 Kbytes/s) 61 bytes/sec.....that is obscene. > > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Sun Oct 22 20:22:48 MET 1995 > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 18:06:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA14988 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:06:59 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA14981 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:06:57 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16128(9)>; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:06:10 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:05:54 -0700 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Oct 95 17:13:40 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:05:44 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Oct24.180554pdt.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message you write: > a major rework or mail may be in order here. instead of direct >delivery find/adopt/cajole sites to perform regional delivery. sites >that are both well connected and have bandwidth available. > > > who has studied networks enough to comment from experience?? Sounds like... USENET. Bill From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 18:16:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA15262 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:16:21 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA15257 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:16:16 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id VAA20034; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:05:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:05:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: Gary Palmer cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4604.814564429@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > I think we either need more memory in freefall, or a dedicated spool > disk or something to try and speed up delivery. I'm sure that a > pentium should be able to shift more mail than that. Mebbe the T1 is > starting to slow things down. i believe to be the network comms latency rather than local congestion. after all if the ping time is ~400ms how many smtp state changes can occur in a second while each side waits for the data to pass. > > bingo! that's 1 for 1, care to guess the other? > > Wild guess: nimh.gttw.com? BZZZZZT thank you for playing (been waiting a long time for that, sorry gary ;) the answer is mpp.minn.net > I >MAY< have a patch file to fix this somewhere. Have to go digging. send it in, please! Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 18:44:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA16932 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:44:54 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA16863 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:44:29 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <11183-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:01:59 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id KAA21878 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:07:12 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id AAA02128 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 00:07:02 GMT Message-Id: <199510250007.AAA02128@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Embarrassing Question... X-Face: $.-~&U=${N=I$&B~1:E6C8w`s2>*j3hV1j`KM@-toD:Z$o.,e4mfnKDpV1.WlHU}^O"3''L %N=8hj4%d.18rx5CP=d5NQW-`\gF97|$cY$?WZ8#|L]B5x]6z-I#g+cfSnOvoHzh-p,v~M[j4jt^$E G"@]fay-K8I@QkLCCC{kkmq'6?hMb"3Ww4"%R#~cRXN6sTI'Z)8c.5vk}KU\6|ms@Bzcte0e%6n:%. R{jW`&cUB_JtWbZ#u|W56lU&69/KhRcRJfR|*n.v\^W$}$kc Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Can someone remind me how to use majordomo? I wan't to find what commit lists I've subscribed to, as I seem to be getting each message twice. Stephen -- I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Oct 24 19:45:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA21929 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 19:45:21 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA21899 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 19:45:04 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id WAA22143; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:35:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:35:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Embarrassing Question... To: Stephen Hocking cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510250007.AAA02128@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Stephen Hocking wrote: > Can someone remind me how to use majordomo? I wan't to find what commit lists > I've subscribed to, as I seem to be getting each message twice. mail to majordomo@freebsd.org which end if you have subcribed to cvs-all and the individual commit lists, you will get each message twice> Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 00:58:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA02987 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 00:58:32 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02982 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 00:58:19 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA15577; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:52:46 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA29792; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:52:46 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA23224; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:28:19 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510250728.IAA23224@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Embarrassing Question... To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:28:18 +0100 (MET) Cc: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Oct 24, 95 10:35:19 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 442 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > if you have subcribed to cvs-all and the individual commit lists, you > will get each message twice> ...as well as if you've subscribed to cvs-all, but got commit privileges meanwhile. Commits do automatically get the equivalent of cvs-all. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 01:47:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA04443 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 01:47:35 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA04405 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 01:47:01 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id JAA18408 ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:46:11 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id JAA26643 ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:46:02 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id JAA22840; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:36:02 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199510250836.JAA22840@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:36:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Oct 24, 95 08:13:40 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1255 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jonathan M. Bresler said: > each subscription would need to be assigned to a regional mail > hub. assignments should be made on the basis of connectivity between the > destination and the regional mail hub (all regional mail hubs must be > well connected to freefall, else they aint gonna be regional hubs). the > assignments may need to be redone every XX days/weeks as net-topology > changes. Like Bill has said, it is the paradigm used Usenet. It works but it is much slower than mail (even with the timeouts). The vast majority of sites are three or four hops away from the other. Usenet can make it more then twenty... > > 15904 bytes received in 2.5e+02 seconds (0.061 Kbytes/s) > > 61 bytes/sec.....that is obscene. More and more common between the US and Europe these days... On the morning in Europe you can move bytes a little bit faster but it fells down fast during the day. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Sun Oct 22 20:22:48 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 07:44:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA16631 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:44:25 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA16623 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:44:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA27646; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:39:59 -0700 To: Ollivier Robert cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler), gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:36:01 BST." <199510250836.JAA22840@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:39:59 -0700 Message-ID: <27644.814631999@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Like Bill has said, it is the paradigm used Usenet. It works but it is much > slower than mail (even with the timeouts). The vast majority of sites are > three or four hops away from the other. Usenet can make it more then > twenty... I think what *really* needs to happen is for sendmail to get a lot smarter about this.. Sendmail knows who it can't reach, and if it kept timing statistics for some number of "frequent destinations" then it could even intuit who was slow and who was fast, reordering its work queue accordingly. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 08:02:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA17975 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:02:19 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA17964 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:02:11 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id KAA13740; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:53:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:53:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Ollivier Robert , gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <27644.814631999@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Like Bill has said, it is the paradigm used Usenet. It works but it is much > > slower than mail (even with the timeouts). The vast majority of sites are > > three or four hops away from the other. Usenet can make it more then > > twenty... > > I think what *really* needs to happen is for sendmail to get a lot > smarter about this.. Sendmail knows who it can't reach, and if it > kept timing statistics for some number of "frequent destinations" then > it could even intuit who was slow and who was fast, reordering its > work queue accordingly. it is the USENET paradigm. it does not have some of the drawbacks of netnews. each person has to subscribe, we can filter particular individuals, we can limit the operation to three hops (freefall, regional mail hub, destination | MX'er) sendmail does not do what we want in this regard. reordering the queue will not decrease the number of sendmail processes (someone still has to shovel to those sites). perhaps regional mail hubs is bogus and two parallel lists is more appropriate--the fast lane and the slow--this will bugger everyone in europe and does not decrease the mail load on freefall. regional hubs, say one in germany, would deliver to everyone in germany (barring strange topologies) with only one message passing from freefall to the german mail hub. that one message would then get exploded out to chris kuku, stephan esser, and everyone else associate with that regional mail hub. (association between mail hub and subscriber kept on freefall. consulted by majordomo when creating the mail envelope. have bulk_mailer to a lookup on the subscriber in the association file. use the result to create the mail envelope.) Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 08:15:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA18908 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:15:31 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA18888 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:15:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA27892; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:04:12 -0700 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Ollivier Robert , gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:53:09 EDT." Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:04:11 -0700 Message-ID: <27890.814633451@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > regional hubs, say one in germany, would deliver to everyone in > germany (barring strange topologies) with only one message passing from > freefall to the german mail hub. that one message would then get exploded > out to chris kuku, stephan esser, and everyone else associate with that > regional mail hub. (association between mail hub and subscriber kept on > freefall. consulted by majordomo when creating the mail envelope. have > bulk_mailer to a lookup on the subscriber in the association file. use > the result to create the mail envelope.) I think that this is the best short-term strategy, anyway. Why not issue a call on hackers for exploder sites to step forward? Cite the enormous load on freefall, etc. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 08:31:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA20022 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:31:01 -0700 Received: from alpha.dsu.edu (ghelmer@alpha.dsu.edu [138.247.32.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA20017 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:30:58 -0700 Received: (from ghelmer@localhost) by alpha.dsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id KAA30243; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:30:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:30:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Guy Helmer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Ollivier Robert , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-Reply-To: <27644.814631999@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Like Bill has said, it is the paradigm used Usenet. It works but it is much > > slower than mail (even with the timeouts). The vast majority of sites are > > three or four hops away from the other. Usenet can make it more then > > twenty... > > I think what *really* needs to happen is for sendmail to get a lot > smarter about this.. Sendmail knows who it can't reach, and if it > kept timing statistics for some number of "frequent destinations" then > it could even intuit who was slow and who was fast, reordering its > work queue accordingly. > > Jordan Uh-oh - more code in sendmail! :-) I've got a Perl script written by Paul Pomes (at UIUC or CICnet) that I believe solves this sort of problem nicely. The script moves older messages from one queue directory to another, such as from /var/spool/mqueue to /var/spool/mqueue2; one infrequently runs "sendmail -oQ/var/spool/mqueue2 -q" from root's crontab for the second level queue, and likewise even more levels can be setup for less frequent intervals. Keeping the main queue short seems to help sendmail out quite a bit. I haven't had to implement this yet on DSU's mail hub (some days I have been tempted!), but it wouldn't be hard to install. I could forward the script to anyone who would like it. Guy Helmer, Dakota State University Computing Services - ghelmer@alpha.dsu.edu From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 08:52:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA21503 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:52:16 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA21480 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:52:05 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id LAA15029; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:41:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:41:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: Guy Helmer cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Ollivier Robert , gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Guy, please send me a copy, i am not guaranteeing that we will use it but i am interested in seeing it. i think the problem is the length of time that it takes to process a message rather than the actual number of messages or the number of sendmail processes trying to deliver mail. nearly are are in 'netio' wait channel. jmb On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Guy Helmer wrote: > I've got a Perl script written by Paul Pomes (at UIUC or CICnet) that > I believe solves this sort of problem nicely. > > The script moves older messages from one queue directory to another, such > as from /var/spool/mqueue to /var/spool/mqueue2; one infrequently runs > "sendmail -oQ/var/spool/mqueue2 -q" from root's crontab for the second > level queue, and likewise even more levels can be setup for less frequent > intervals. Keeping the main queue short seems to help sendmail out quite > a bit. > > I haven't had to implement this yet on DSU's mail hub (some days I have > been tempted!), but it wouldn't be hard to install. I could forward the > script to anyone who would like it. > > Guy Helmer, Dakota State University Computing Services - ghelmer@alpha.dsu.edu > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 11:55:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA05338 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:55:12 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA05333 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:55:09 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15328(1)>; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:51:13 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:50:50 -0700 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Ollivier Robert cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Oct 95 01:36:01 PDT." <199510250836.JAA22840@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:50:48 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Oct25.115050pdt.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199510250836.JAA22840@keltia.freenix.fr> you write: >Usenet can make it more then twenty... Using INN and nntplink, I have seen propogation times of 100ms per article, making 20 hops 2 seconds. That's dealable =) The USENET paradigm can also make things much better for the overloaded EU<>US link; one (or two or three) copy flows and gets redistributed on the other side, instead of the email copy-per-subscriber... This whole one-fanout-point thing is the problem (and it's clear that jmb recognizes that). I'm simply suggesting that adding on another single fanout point may not be the best solution. Bill From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 15:41:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA25453 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:41:51 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA25438 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:41:46 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA04481 ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:41:34 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA28909 ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:41:34 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id XAA25243; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:32:17 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199510252232.XAA25243@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:32:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <27644.814631999@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 25, 95 07:39:59 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1255 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jordan K. Hubbard said: > I think what *really* needs to happen is for sendmail to get a lot > smarter about this.. Sendmail knows who it can't reach, and if it > kept timing statistics for some number of "frequent destinations" then > it could even intuit who was slow and who was fast, reordering its > work queue accordingly. Sendmail has to work in every situation and it can only use data it has access to (i.e. the MX). As for the cache for "frequent destinations", it is difficult to maintain between each invocation. For outbound direction it already reorder per MX then use the connection cache but how to want him to remember that foo.com is just one hop away from bar.de when the MX are not thought for it ? Exploders are more a solution than hacking sendmail I think. Sendmail is already too much complicated :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Sun Oct 22 20:22:48 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 16:07:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA27604 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:07:57 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA27596 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:07:52 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id SAA26645; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 18:58:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 18:58:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Ollivier Robert , gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <7815.814662014@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Sendmail is already too much complicated :-) > > Naaaaaaww! You haven't seen my version with the JAVA interpreter in > it yet! :-) y'all thought that jordan was frenetic before?? now we have a perl script running on faster hardware pumped with java! aieeeeee! Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 16:11:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA27898 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:11:44 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA27875 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:11:36 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA07817; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:00:15 -0700 To: Ollivier Robert cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moving some mail. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:32:16 BST." <199510252232.XAA25243@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:00:14 -0700 Message-ID: <7815.814662014@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Exploders are more a solution than hacking sendmail I think. I guess I tend to agree. > Sendmail is already too much complicated :-) Naaaaaaww! You haven't seen my version with the JAVA interpreter in it yet! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 18:26:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA09579 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 18:26:27 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA09566 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 18:26:19 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id VAA00331; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 21:17:09 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 21:17:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: moving some mail. To: Bill Fenner cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <95Oct25.115050pdt.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Bill Fenner wrote: > The USENET paradigm can also make things much better for the overloaded EU<>US > link; one (or two or three) copy flows and gets redistributed on the other > side, instead of the email copy-per-subscriber... sendmail, majordomo and bulk_mailer all prevent the one copy per subscriber distribution disaster. bulk_mailer sorts the recipient list and places multiple addresses on each envelope. all addresses at a single site are grouped together.....there is room for much improvement. > This whole one-fanout-point thing is the problem (and it's clear that jmb > recognizes that). I'm simply suggesting that adding on another single fanout > point may not be the best solution. not a single point, but rather a number of points--one for each heavy subscriber area or remote area. my comment of one in germany was meatn to illustrative only. perhaps psuedo-newsfeed is the way to go. i am not convinced that we want to forgo the advantages that we presently have with mailing lists. jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Oct 25 22:36:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA07455 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 22:36:58 -0700 Received: from mail.infinet.com (mail.infinet.com [198.30.154.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA07432 ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 22:36:47 -0700 Received: by mail.infinet.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0t8KvI-000KGrC; Thu, 26 Oct 95 01:32 EDT Message-Id: From: macgyver@infinet.com (Wilson Liaw) Subject: Re: tech docs? (fwd) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 01:32:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 693 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Something some of you might be interested. It would be nice to have FreeBSD support. > From: RealAudio Support Program > Subject: Re: tech docs? > > Progressive Networks will be releasing RealAudio players for SGI, Sun, > and Linux platforms before the end of 1995. > > We would like to ask all UNIX users who are interested in the player to > please specify there platform ond OS version in all communications with > us. > Those of you running UNIX systems on Intel platforms (e.g. Linux) are > also asked to specify the type of soundcard they have, this will help us > to target the most popular platforms in a timely manner. > > Tony Taylor > Product Support From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 26 03:10:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA29853 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 03:10:18 -0700 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA29709 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 03:06:36 -0700 Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA05269 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:34:27 +0100 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by localhost (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA19959; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 17:57:00 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 17:57:00 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199510251657.RAA19959@localhost> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. In-Reply-To: <3086173E.603DBD0C@FreeBSD.org> References: <199510190828.JAA02939@uriah.heep.sax.de> <3086173E.603DBD0C@FreeBSD.org> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >So why complain to me? Talk to the Deutsche Bundespest and get them to >offer the same service! Just tell them "Hey, the Amis are doing it, do >you want to be INFERIOR or something?!" They'll then feel so ashamed >that they'll do something about it and you'll have Centrex ISDN there in >6 months. Really! Large, bloated, monopolistic telecommunications >dictatorships listen to their customers all the time, trust me! Due the telecom market liberations the Deutsche Telekom AG increase the prices for local distance calls up to 100% (since 1.1.96) A 24h connection cost now 39.1 DM, since 1.1.96 77.76 DM (~55 US$) Talking one hour in the business time with your grandmother (eg. Berlin-Grunewald to Berlin-Grunewald) cost 4.80 DM (~3.5US$). What a shame! Wolfram From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 26 06:36:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA06242 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 06:36:59 -0700 Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA06236 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 06:36:53 -0700 Received: from localhost.jdl.com (localhost.jdl.com [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA03278 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 08:35:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199510261335.IAA03278@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost.jdl.com didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FYI: Leap Second coming on Dec 31, 1995 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 08:35:37 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Forwarded-by: bostic@bsdi.com (Keith Bostic) Forwarded-by: Tony Sanders Details available at: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leap.html ------- End of Forwarded Message