From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 01:01:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA02644 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 01:01:27 -0700 Received: from wn1.sci.kun.nl (wn1.sci.kun.nl [131.174.8.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA02635 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 01:01:23 -0700 Received: from studs2.sci.kun.nl by wn1.sci.kun.nl via studs2.sci.kun.nl [131.174.124.2] with ESMTP id KAA01490 (8.6.10/2.13); Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:01:20 +0200 From: William Wanders Received: by studs2.sci.kun.nl id KAA20603 (8.6.10/2.1); Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:01:19 +0200 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:01:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199509170801.KAA20603@studs2.sci.kun.nl> To: rashid@haven.ios.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199509151741.NAA26416@haven.ios.com> (rashid@haven.ios.com) Subject: Re: postgres95-beta0.03 . Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: "Rashid Karimov." Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 13:41:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 333 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, Does any1 here use the beast ? How fast /reliable/SQL conformant it is ? I use it and find it quite usable. It supports an extensive subset of SQL but not all SQL features are implemented. Therefore it has almost all nice features that Postgres 4.2 has. For speed i can only say: It is much faster than Postgres 4.2 :) I did not run any benchmarks. I'm stuck on the compilation phase ;( - there are some problems with yy_flush** fucntions ,as well as few headers are obviously missing. I didn't try to dig it assuming that someone here pro- bably has invented the wheel ... A well kown problem with all ports that use flex. Try using a newer flex (>2.5.2). Rashid William From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 03:14:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA07923 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 03:14:47 -0700 Received: from mail.netvision.net.il (mail.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA07903 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 03:14:33 -0700 Received: from gena@NetVision.net.il (gena@burka.NetVision.net.il [194.90.6.15]) by mail.netvision.net.il (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00862; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:13:33 +0200 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:13:33 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.3-beta [p0] on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Reply-To: gena@NetVision.net.il X-Face: #v>4HN>#D_"[olq9y`HqTYkLVB89Xy|3')Vs9v58JQ*u-xEJVKY`xa.}E?z0RkLI/P&;BJmi0#u=W0).-Y'J4(dw{"54NhSG|YYZG@[)(`e! >jN#L!~qI5fE-JHS+< Organization: NetVision Ltd. From: Gennady Sorokopud To: "Nickolay N. Dudorov" Subject: Re: xcdplayer and SCSI CD-ROM Cc: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I already sent this patch to the author, and it will be in xmcd-2.0 (i'm testing it right now) Unfortunately this is not the problem that affects xmcd on -current for some people. I still can not reproduce it... On Sun Sep 17 06:01:33 1995 Nickolay N. Dudorov wrote: >>Paul F. Werkowski (pw@snoopy.mv.com) wrote: > ............ > >> Hmm, well maybe, however I have just recently tried getting >> xmcd running on this 2.0.5 system. What worked fine on 2.0 >> now can't seem to find any disk in the player. This with >> 1542cf/NEC 4xi. I hope to have some time this weekend to >> figure out what is going on. >> >> Can anyone report that any scsi based audio cd works these days? > > I discower some code in xmcd-1.4/libdi.d/os_frbsd.c that >prevent xmcd ('cda' in my case, cause I use it in CLI-environment) >>from playing audio-CDs on my NEC-CDROM CDR-84 on 2.0.5 (and it works >on 2.0R ;-(). > The next patch brings back lovely Arensky, Rimsky-Korsakov etc. sounds :-) > > N.Dudorov >====================================================== >--- os_frbsd.c.ORIG Sat Sep 16 21:54:26 1995 >+++ os_frbsd.c Sat Sep 16 21:54:46 1995 >@@ -214,7 +214,7 @@ > return FALSE; > } > >- if ((pthru_fd = open(path, O_RDONLY)) < 0) { >+ if ((pthru_fd = open(path, O_RDWR)) < 0) { > DBGPRN(errfp, "Cannot open %s: errno=%d\n", path, errno); > return FALSE; > } -------- Gennady B. Sorokopud - System programmer at NetVision Israel. E-Mail: Gennady Sorokopud Homepage: http://www.netvision.net.il/~gena This message was sent at 09/17/95 10:12:01 by XF-Mail From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 04:12:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA10695 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 04:12:15 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA10689 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 04:12:04 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA10985; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 21:01:57 +1000 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 21:01:57 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509171101.VAA10985@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, tony@rtd.com Subject: Re: kernel without INET ? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I'm trying to build a stripped down 2.0.5 kernel for fd0. >Towards that goal, I tried to remove all network support (devices and >protocols). >Removing protocol support leaves a reference but no defintion for netisr_set >causing the loader to barf. >Looking through the code it appears I need to include one of the protocols >(INET, ISO etc) to define NETISR_SET. >Is there a way to remove all networking support from the kernel ? Ifdef the reference to netisr_set and any other new stuff that isn't properly ifdefed. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 05:03:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA11877 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 05:03:58 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA11865 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 05:03:45 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id OAA23466 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:03:32 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id OAA11711 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:03:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA11093 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:18:05 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509171018.MAA11093@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Does FreeBSD suffer from the Intel RZ1000 IDE bug? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:18:04 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509170159.DAA01550@keltia.Freenix.FR> from "Ollivier Robert" at Sep 17, 95 03:59:18 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 377 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > > It will run only on PC. SCSI will run evevywhere. Duh! All my equipment (except the oldish notebook) is SCSI, too, but: Apple went IDE lately! (Along with the on-board SCSI that's still there.) :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 05:37:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA12997 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 05:37:15 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA12992 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 05:37:11 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id OAA17063 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:37:09 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id OAA26867 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:37:08 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.Freenix.FR (8.7.Beta.14/keltia-uucp-2.4) id OAA03299; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:36:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199509171236.OAA03299@keltia.Freenix.FR> Subject: Re: Does FreeBSD suffer from the Intel RZ1000 IDE bug? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:36:15 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509171018.MAA11093@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 17, 95 12:18:04 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1085 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a+] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that J Wunsch said: > Duh! All my equipment (except the oldish notebook) is SCSI, too, but: > Apple went IDE lately! (Along with the on-board SCSI that's still > there.) Apple and IDE... Pfff. If there was one thing they did right in the Mac, it was to choose SCSI. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.Freenix.FR 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Sep 10 18:50:19 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 10:59:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA20886 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:59:29 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA20869 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:59:26 -0700 Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA09023 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 08:12:37 -0700 Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id RAA03978; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:11:40 +0200 From: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199509171511.RAA03978@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Subject: Re: Dallas Show To: jbryant@argus.iadfw.net (Jim Bryant) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:11:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509140008.TAA02499@argus.iadfw.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Sep 13, 95 07:08:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 131 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I at long last got my FreeBSD tee-shirt and poster! I really dig the > temporary tattoos!!! > Poster??? aht poster??? -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 10:59:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA20983 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:59:42 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA20959 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:59:39 -0700 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA21456 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 07:49:13 -0700 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA10375; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:49:17 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:49:17 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Didier Derny cc: jdl@chromatic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Didier Derny wrote: > I can't see any reason why the SCSI controller and devices are so expensive. Marketing. If you look around, the devices are pretty competitive, thanks to Apple for creating a mass market, but the PC SCSI controllers are outrageous. I think it is because the billions of PC users have it in their head that SCSI == server hardware == expensive and that is the end. They never think a little further and ask "Does it really have to be that expensive?". They never looked in an Amiga magazine and discovered that a decent controller can be had for around US$70. I *know* it isn't the fact that relative to IDE, SCSI controllers don't have a big enough market to be low-cost. I wouldn't be surprised if Adaptec sells more SCSI controllers in a month than most 3rd party SCSI manufactures for the Amiga sold in their lifetime. And for the devices, SCSI devices are a much better investment because they are platform independent. For example, one of my (recently deceased) hard drives started life in an HP 720, lived in an Amiga for a couple years and then in a PC for a couple years. My tape drive has a similar story, although I don't know where it started life. Had I used some platform specific specific device devices, I would have had to ditch a tape drive and 3 hard drives when I switched platforms a couple years ago (amiga->pc). That would have far more expensive than an outrageously priced PC SCSI controller, never mind a reasonably priced one. Buy SCSI. You won't regret it. Low end Macintosh and Amigas use SCSI, why not low end PC clowns? Just say NO to IDE! -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:03:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA21413 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:03:27 -0700 Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.35.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA21408 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:03:25 -0700 Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA22189; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:46:31 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:46:31 -0500 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199509171546.KAA22189@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. Cc: multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > Well, "maplay" appears to play through /dev/dsp0 now, but there are > tweets and farts interspersed occasionally in the music, it's like it > just can't keep up (this is on a P5-90). When I symlink /dev/dsp to > /dev/dsp2 (cdev major 30, minor 35) then things work just great. There could be several things that actually cause this. One might be that the gus GF1 doesn't run at the exact frequency that is specified by the user. Most sound cards such as the pas, sb, etc.. also don't run at the speified freq, they approximate the freq. I beleive the cs4231 actaully goes through a calibration cycle to ensure it is running at the correct frequency. This could cause maplay to bounce around a bit. > > Should we just settle on /dev/dsp2 with a special MAKEDEV target > (sndgus?) or can Alain's patch be improved to where things sound > nice on /dev/dsp0? > I think we want to be careful here. It might be best if maplay was compiled with a target device such as /dev/mp2, then one could make a symbolic link to wherever it is needed. The default sym link should probably point to /dev/dsp0. If one has a gus-max card then you could point the link to /dev/dsp2. -Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:06:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA21521 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:06:06 -0700 Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA21513 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:06:03 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA01081; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:17:17 -0400 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:17:17 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199509171617.MAA01081@Glock.COM> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, September 16, 1995 19:35:06 -0700 References: <435.811305306@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, September 16, 1995 at 19:35:06 (-0700), Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, "maplay" appears to play through /dev/dsp0 now, but there are > tweets and farts interspersed occasionally in the music, it's like it > just can't keep up (this is on a P5-90). When I symlink /dev/dsp to > /dev/dsp2 (cdev major 30, minor 35) then things work just great. > Should we just settle on /dev/dsp2 with a special MAKEDEV target > (sndgus?) or can Alain's patch be improved to where things sound > nice on /dev/dsp0? I just tried to point it at dsp2, and noticed that I get a device not configured. Odd. I've got a GUS MAX 512K. Anyone have any ideas? I'm running the sound driver from current of a week ago with the gus_wave patch and the patch that fixed maplay's functionality. Here's cat /dev/sndstat's output: Sound Driver:2.90-2 (Sun Feb 5 14:38:12 EST 1995 freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com) Config options: ffffffff Installed drivers: Type 4: Gravis Ultrasound Card config: Gravis Ultrasound at 0x220 irq 15 drq 1 PCM devices: 0: Gravis UltraSound Synth devices: 0: Gravis UltraSound MAX (512k) Midi devices: 0: Gravis UltraSound Midi MIDI Timers: 0: System Timer 1: OPL-3/GUS Timer 1 mixer(s) installed -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM | Network Administration and Software Development http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ | Consulting: BizNet Technologies -> mmead@bnt.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:15:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA21791 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:15:50 -0700 Received: from Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (Wit401402.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA21785 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:15:48 -0700 Received: (from alain@localhost) by Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA02675; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:26:04 +0200 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:26:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker Reply-To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-Reply-To: <21387.811354591@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'll bet you're not running anything else.. :-) This machine is > generally almost *always* running a `make world' or something, so I > think that the 60% for /dev/dsp2 vs 80% for /dev/dsp0 is what's > killing me off here.. > > Jordan > Yep, when I as much as start compiling a kernel, it starts to stutter. But anyways, I can use X reasonably well under FreeBSD. Back in my L.n.x. days I would have as much as to touch my mouse to make it lose its breath :-) --- Alain From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:15:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA21804 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:15:52 -0700 Received: from Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (Wit401402.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA21790 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:15:50 -0700 Received: (from alain@localhost) by Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA00219; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:49:48 +0200 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:49:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker Reply-To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-Reply-To: <435.811305306@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, "maplay" appears to play through /dev/dsp0 now, but there are > tweets and farts interspersed occasionally in the music, it's like it > just can't keep up (this is on a P5-90). When I symlink /dev/dsp to > /dev/dsp2 (cdev major 30, minor 35) then things work just great. > I have recently noticed this while playing back mono (i.e. single channel) 8 or 16bit audio files. My patch only affects playback of 16bit stereo sound, so I think the problem for mono files is somewhere else. I will look into it. --- Alain From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:15:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA21831 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:15:56 -0700 Received: from Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (Wit401402.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA21802 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:15:51 -0700 Received: (from alain@localhost) by Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA00190; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:33:47 +0200 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:33:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker Reply-To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-Reply-To: <435.811305306@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, "maplay" appears to play through /dev/dsp0 now, but there are > tweets and farts interspersed occasionally in the music, it's like it > just can't keep up (this is on a P5-90). When I symlink /dev/dsp to > /dev/dsp2 (cdev major 30, minor 35) then things work just great. > > Should we just settle on /dev/dsp2 with a special MAKEDEV target > (sndgus?) or can Alain's patch be improved to where things sound > nice on /dev/dsp0? > > Jordan > > Strange, I have a P5-90 and don't have any trouble at all. It does munch up about 80% of my CPU, though. Are you sure you don't have anything like profiling enabled in your kernel? The GF1 (/dev/dsp0) output does need some extra processing (in gus_copy_from_user() in gus_wave.c) which the CS4231 doesn't need. Anyway, I do have to improve the patch a bit, because currently it does break L...x compatibility (you only care when you're resubmitting the patches to Hannu, the VoxWare maintainer) --- Alain From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:21:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA22088 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:21:17 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA22080 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:21:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA12639; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:34:12 -0700 To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:26:03 +0200." Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:34:11 -0700 Message-ID: <12628.811355651@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yep, when I as much as start compiling a kernel, it starts to stutter. > But anyways, I can use X reasonably well under FreeBSD. Back in my L.n.x. > days I would have as much as to touch my mouse to make it lose its breath :-) Well heck, I'm spoiled.. :-) With /dev/dsp2 I can run a full make world with a couple of other background jobs and my usual full 1152x900x24 X server with netscape, emacs, fvwm and a whole host of other things running and not miss a beat.. I have about 40Mb of MPEG2 music that I play as background music while I work, you see, so for me maplay is more than just a cool app, it's my jukebox! :-) Oh yeah, guess I should also 'fess up and admit that I do run maplay with `rtprio' to run it at real-time priority. It doesn't effect the interactive "feel" of the system at all, but it does prevent annoying skips when I switch virtual screens in fvwm or otherwise do something that might steal a cycle or two away from it. Works great! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:21:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA22104 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:21:19 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA22086 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:21:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA21389; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:16:31 -0700 To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:33:46 +0200." Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:16:31 -0700 Message-ID: <21387.811354591@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Strange, I have a P5-90 and don't have any trouble at all. It does munch > up about 80% of my CPU, though. I'll bet you're not running anything else.. :-) This machine is generally almost *always* running a `make world' or something, so I think that the 60% for /dev/dsp2 vs 80% for /dev/dsp0 is what's killing me off here.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:21:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA22124 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:21:21 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA22099 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:21:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA21405; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:18:02 -0700 To: Jim Lowe cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:46:31 CDT." <199509171546.KAA22189@miller.cs.uwm.edu> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:18:02 -0700 Message-ID: <21403.811354682@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think we want to be careful here. It might be best if maplay was > compiled with a target device such as /dev/mp2, then one could make > a symbolic link to wherever it is needed. The default sym link should > probably point to /dev/dsp0. If one has a gus-max card then you could > point the link to /dev/dsp2. Well, that's what `sndgus' would do I suppose. Don't forget that /dev/dsp2 *isn't even created* by anything right now, so some sort of manual intervention with MAKEDEV is basically already required! :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 11:45:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA22611 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:45:07 -0700 Received: from emory.mathcs.emory.edu (emory.mathcs.emory.edu [128.140.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA22605 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:45:05 -0700 Received: by emory.mathcs.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_mathcs.4.0.16) via UUCP id AA05373 ; Sun, 17 Sep 95 13:50:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (jan@localhost) by bagend.atl.ga.us (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA10545 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:35:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199509171735.NAA10545@bagend.atl.ga.us> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does FreeBSD suffer from the Intel RZ1000 IDE bug? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:36:15 +0200." <199509171236.OAA03299@keltia.Freenix.FR> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:35:59 -0400 From: Jan Isley Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert writes: > > Apple and IDE... Pfff. > > If there was one thing they did right in the Mac, it was to choose SCSI. This was an economic decision. IDE drives cost less. -- Jan Isley | Running UseVote 3.0 votes to: | Powered by FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 12:16:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA23190 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:16:41 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA23185 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:16:39 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA04507; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:14:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199509171914.MAA04507@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Sep 1995 19:35:06 PDT." <435.811305306@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:14:49 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > Well, "maplay" appears to play through /dev/dsp0 now, but there are > tweets and farts interspersed occasionally in the music, it's like it > just can't keep up (this is on a P5-90). When I symlink /dev/dsp to > /dev/dsp2 (cdev major 30, minor 35) then things work just great. > > Should we just settle on /dev/dsp2 with a special MAKEDEV target > (sndgus?) or can Alain's patch be improved to where things sound > nice on /dev/dsp0? > > Jordan Hi Guys, For now , I think it will be best to keep the default /dev/dsp pointing to /dev/dsp0 when I am done with the CS4231 code we can make the CS4231 the default device. For example, right now /dev/dsp2 and /dev/dsp3 are playback and capture. Most of you don't have /dev/dsp3 so don't worry about it because it will not work for you. When the CS4231 side of things gets smooth out we will make /dev/dsp0 and /dev/dsp1 access the CS4231 side of the GUS, if there are no technical objections;additionally, if /dev/dsp2 and /dev/dsp3 could then access the GF1 side of things. I doubt that we could improve the sound driver to perform much faster than what it already is. Alain's patch addresses the problem of downloading an incorrect 16 bit stereo sound format stream to the sound card and does not increase the performance of the sound driver. Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 13:06:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA24422 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:06:08 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA24417 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:06:05 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06540 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:04:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509172004.NAA06540@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:04:17 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1190 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. It's purpose would be to print wchar_t strings that are "NULL" terminated; the actual output would include the embedded NULL's. This would be true 16 bit character output. I'd also like the wchar_t value to be 16 rather than 32 bits. Other than page 0 (Unicode), no other code pages in ISO-10646 have yet been allocated. This would affect constant ISO 8859-1 strings using the 'L' quailfier; for example: main() { printf( "%S\n", L"Hello World"); } I'd also like to begin discussing word order in wchar_t values; specifically, the generation of a data value for L"Hello World" should put the 'H' in the same byte independent of machine byte order. This will unify the storage encoding so that it is invariant between machines with differning byte orders for NFS mounts of wchar_t containing data files. I suggest network byte order (yes, I know this means byte-swapping in the %S processing code for Intel machines). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 13:35:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA25201 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:35:08 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (root@hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA25192 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:35:03 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA12999 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:34:53 +0300 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id XAA01467; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:34:51 +0300 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:34:51 +0300 Message-Id: <199509172034.XAA01467@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: John Fieber Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: John Fieber's message of 17 Sep 1995 21:53:08 +0300 Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marketing. If you look around, the devices are pretty competitive, thanks to Apple for creating a mass market, but the PC SCSI controllers are PCI NCR controllers cost $80-$100 here end-user. Probably they could cost even less, looking at the chip count on these things (1). SCSI is really hairy protocol, a good example of lousy design patched up several times to add larger block offsets, asynchronous writes and such things which should have been there from the beginning. So I would not completely put it on marketing; I can believe that design of a SCSI device can be a major pain. But imitating ancient MFM controllers is even worse than SCSI :-). -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 13:45:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA25595 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:45:36 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA25590 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:45:31 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id QAA09071; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:36:55 -0400 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Does FreeBSD suffer from the Intel RZ1000 IDE bug? To: Jan Isley cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509171735.NAA10545@bagend.atl.ga.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Jan Isley wrote: > Ollivier Robert writes: > > > > Apple and IDE... Pfff. > > > > If there was one thing they did right in the Mac, it was to choose SCSI. > > This was an economic decision. IDE drives cost less. sorry mrs beasley, the insurance company decided not to operate. this was an economic decision. death costs less. well, costs the health insurance company less ;^) > > -- > Jan Isley | Running UseVote 3.0 > votes to: | Powered by FreeBSD > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 14:05:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA26347 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:05:41 -0700 Received: from aristotle.algonet.se (aristotle.algonet.se [193.12.207.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA26342 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:05:37 -0700 Received: from sophocles. (mal@sophocles.algonet.se [193.12.207.10]) by aristotle.algonet.se (8.6.9/hdw.1.0) with SMTP id XAA09797 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:05:05 +0200 Received: by sophocles. (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA06482; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:05:25 +0200 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:05:25 +0200 From: mal@aristotle.algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Message-Id: <9509172105.AA06482@sophocles.> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: xntpd (or kernel) timekeeping problem? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I configured my machine to run xntpd about a month ago (running ~2.0.5). The error in the system clock frequency was to large for ntp to lock it. After changing the tickadj args to "-q -t 9995 -a 5" it locked fine with a drift around 50 ppm. Today I updated all of my binaries (including kernel) to a fresh 2.1-stable version, and ntp still seems to like the 500 ppm hack (i.e. the new values in ntp.drift still are around 50 ppm with the tickadj args above). Is this a problem in xntpd or the kernel? It is a bit suspicius that hacking tickadj exactly one tick makes the drift very low... (I'm running it on a 486DX4/100 with a 28.8kbit cslip connection to my internet provider. Info from xntpdc (still with the -t 9995): xntpdc> sysinfo system peer: Stockholm-DGIX.sunet.se system peer mode: client leap indicator: 00 stratum: 4 precision: -17 root distance: 0.45340 s root dispersion: 0.05278 s reference ID: [194.68.128.19] reference time: b4070811.aa9e5000 Sun, Sep 17 1995 22:48:17.666 system flags: pll monitor stats frequency: 0.000 ppm stability: 12.300 ppm broadcastdelay: 0.003906 s authdelay: 0.000122 s xntpdc> loopinfo offset: 0.018491 s frequency: -31.324 ppm poll adjust: -6 watchdog timer: 43 s xntpdc> pe remote local st poll reach delay offset disp ======================================================================= *Stockholm-DGIX. 192.9.200.101 3 64 377 0.27216 0.018491 0.01958 =sunic.sunet.se 192.9.200.101 3 64 377 0.23859 -0.034453 0.02048 This looks ok to me.) _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 14:21:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA26769 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:21:24 -0700 Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.35.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA26764 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:21:22 -0700 Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id QAA09851; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:21:20 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:21:20 -0500 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199509172121.QAA09851@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." > When the CS4231 side of things gets smooth out we will make /dev/dsp0 > and /dev/dsp1 access the CS4231 side of the GUS, if there are no > technical objections;additionally, if /dev/dsp2 and /dev/dsp3 could > then access the GF1 side of things. The only objection I can think of would be the mixer. Can the cs4231 mixer control the synth and midi side of things or is that controlled by the GF1 mixer code? If it the latter, then things can get confusing if one has a gus vs gus-max card. -Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 14:49:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA27570 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:49:21 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA27565 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:49:15 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA00875; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:47:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199509172147.OAA00875@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Jim Lowe cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:21:20 CDT." <199509172121.QAA09851@miller.cs.uwm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:47:27 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Jim Lowe said: > > From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." > > When the CS4231 side of things gets smooth out we will make /dev/dsp0 > > and /dev/dsp1 access the CS4231 side of the GUS, if there are no > > technical objections;additionally, if /dev/dsp2 and /dev/dsp3 could > > then access the GF1 side of things. > > The only objection I can think of would be the mixer. Can the > cs4231 mixer control the synth and midi side of things or is that controlled > by the GF1 mixer code? If it the latter, then things can get confusing if > one has a gus vs gus-max card. > > -Jim We should also make /dev/mixer1 for the CS4231 to be the default one (/dev/mixer) since this is the actual mixer which controls the GUS MAX. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 15:02:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA28024 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:02:18 -0700 Received: from kf0yn.ampr.org (s087.netins.net [167.142.100.87]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA28018 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:02:14 -0700 Received: from [44.50.32.7] (kf0yn-mb.ampr.org [44.50.32.7]) by kf0yn.ampr.org (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA26582 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:02:42 -0500 X-Sender: cmf@44.50.32.6 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:03:16 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: cmf@netins.net (Carl Fongheiser) Subject: Diff to POSIX-ify ttyname.c Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Apologies if something like this has already been committed -- I somehow got dropped off cvs-all. --- /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/ttyname.c Fri Sep 8 21:58:45 1995 +++ ttyname.c Sun Sep 17 16:34:57 1995 @@ -39,7 +39,7 @@ #include #include #include -#include +#include #include #include #include @@ -52,7 +52,7 @@ int fd; { struct stat sb; - struct sgttyb ttyb; + struct termios ttyb; DB *db; DBT data, key; struct { @@ -61,7 +61,7 @@ } bkey; /* Must be a terminal. */ - if (ioctl(fd, TIOCGETP, &ttyb) < 0) + if (tcgetattr(fd, &ttyb) < 0) return (NULL); /* Must be a character device. */ if (fstat(fd, &sb) || !S_ISCHR(sb.st_mode)) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 18:10:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA11748 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:10:55 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11732 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:10:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA10592; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:10:35 -0700 To: "matthew c. mead" cc: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Sound driver in 2.1 / 2.2.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Sep 1995 14:16:40 EDT." <199509171816.OAA00533@Glock.COM> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:10:35 -0700 Message-ID: <10590.811386635@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hehe. I just tried this out. What rtprio do you stick maplay at? 0 - the highest possible. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 18:19:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA12742 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:19:10 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA12733 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:19:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11211; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:18:38 -0700 To: John Fieber cc: Didier Derny , jdl@chromatic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:49:17 CDT." Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:18:38 -0700 Message-ID: <11208.811387118@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > expensive?". They never looked in an Amiga magazine and discovered that a > decent controller can be had for around US$70. I *know* it isn't the fact Darn straight. IVS Trumpcard Pro forever! :-) Jordan (former major Amiga fan until he gave his little A2500 away to work on FreeBSD full-time) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 19:58:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA24881 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:58:53 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24858 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:58:50 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA19137 for hackers@freefall; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:58:47 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:58:47 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199509180258.TAA19137@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: "man hier" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wonder if we should update this someday.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 20:07:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA25882 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 20:07:10 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA25869 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 20:07:03 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id XAA11893; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:09:18 -0400 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:09:18 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509180309.XAA11893@healer.com> To: didier@aida.org, jfieber@indiana.edu Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jdl@chromatic.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I can't see any reason why the SCSI controller and devices are so expensive. > Marketing. If you look around, the devices are pretty competitive, thanks On that note, compare the same SCSI device (same physical chunk of hardware by the same vendor) marketed for Apple or non-Apple. Apple will be much more expensive across the board. Go figure. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 23:40:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA05374 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:40:20 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA05368 for hackers; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:40:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:40:19 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509180640.XAA05368@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers Subject: why is this not a bug in namei? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk if ((cnp->cn_flags & HASBUF) == 0) MALLOC(cnp->cn_pnbuf, caddr_t, MAXPATHLEN, M_NAMEI, M_WAITOK); [....] if (error) { free(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); ndp->ni_vp = NULL; return (error); [...] if (error) { FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); return (error); [....] (and more confusingly) if ((cnp->cn_flags & ISSYMLINK) == 0) { if ((cnp->cn_flags & (SAVENAME | SAVESTART)) == 0) FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); else cnp->cn_flags |= HASBUF; return (0); } [....] FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); } if HASBUF was set, we have freed something we didn't allocate.. (whenever we get an error, by the looks of it..) luckily I can't actually see anywhere that HASBUF is used (can anyone?) but it looks wrong to me... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Sep 17 23:56:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA05543 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:56:55 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user32.lightside.com [198.81.209.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA05538 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:56:52 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA00479; Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:56:44 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:56:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: David Greenman cc: hackers@freebsd.org, vak@cronyx.ru Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... In-Reply-To: <199509162210.PAA01141@corbin.Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, David Greenman wrote: > There are serious bugs in the code at the moment that cause it to break > support for a significant number of IDE _disks_. I will not be bringing in > this code until those bugs are fixed. > > -DG Just wanted to report that I added Serge's ATAPI code version 1.3 to my 2.1.0-STABLE kernel (as block device 19, character device 67), and it works perfectly for both data (597K/sec, 18.7% CPU usage to copy a 45 meg file to /dev/null) and audio CD's on my Mitsumi FX400 quad-speed, and both my Western Digital and Conner hard drives are still working. Here are the kernel probing messages: Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wd0: 515MB (1056384 sectors), 1048 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wd1: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis Has anyone reported bugs with the ATAPI support failing for IDE disks? If so, which version are you using? If these problems have been resolved, I would like to see IDE CD-ROMs supported in the GENERIC 2.1.0 kernel (you'll sell more Walnut Creek CD-ROMs for sure :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 00:08:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA05775 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:08:32 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user48.lightside.com [198.81.209.48]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA05770 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:08:29 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA00512; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:09:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:08:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Adding/deleting partitions should be Linux-like Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In order to make room for 2.1.0-STABLE source on my hard drive, I got rid of a 400 meg DOS partition and tried to add it as /usr/src to FreeBSD. I had nothing but trouble, since fdisk and disklabel are RIDICULOUSLY difficult to use. No matter how much I RTFM, I just could not figure out how to change partition 1 from MSDOS to FreeBSD, nor would newfs work properly without a description of the partition size. It seemed that everything revolved around writing an /etc/disktab which I did NOT want to do. In comparison, Linux's mkfs command automagically sizes the partition and creates the filesystem. I know, I know, the Berkeley FFS wants to know the cylinder/head/sector geometry in order to optimize the layout, but with the geometry translations of IDE (and SCSI?) drives, trying to do this properly is probably futile. Anyway, I ended up booting my FreeBSD boot disk to run sysinstall and create the filesystem. After a couple of failures, I managed to create and mkfs a FreeBSD partition with a single /usr/src slice, but then FreeBSD wouldn't boot! I realized that the FreeBSD boot loader assumes partition one (my new /usr/src) is the root partition, so it couldn't find the kernel. Back to square one. I finally ended up using my trusty LINUX boot/root disks to run LINUX fdisk to delete partition one and recreate it as partition three. After rebooting, I FINALLY got it to work, but I couldn't help but think that if I had access to Linux-style fdisk (with extensions for FreeBSD slices of course) and an easy-to-use newfs which didn't depend on the obsolete /etc/disktab file, it would've taken me about 5 minutes to create the new partition, and not over an hour! I remember a few weeks ago, someone had mentioned they did a quick code drop of the fdisk/disklabel out of sysinstall into a stand-alone program. Has anyone made any progress on this, and if so, will it be committed to 2.1.0/2.2.0? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 00:15:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA05944 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:15:58 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA05935 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:15:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199509180715.AAA05935@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: davidg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org, vak@cronyx.ru In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Sep 17, 95 11:56:13 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1998 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jake Hamby who wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, David Greenman wrote: > > > There are serious bugs in the code at the moment that cause it to break > > support for a significant number of IDE _disks_. I will not be bringing in > > this code until those bugs are fixed. > > > > -DG > > Just wanted to report that I added Serge's ATAPI code version 1.3 to my > 2.1.0-STABLE kernel (as block device 19, character device 67), and it > works perfectly for both data (597K/sec, 18.7% CPU usage to copy a 45 meg > file to /dev/null) and audio CD's on my Mitsumi FX400 quad-speed, and both > my Western Digital and Conner hard drives are still working. Here are the > kernel probing messages: > > Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa > Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): - CFA540A> > Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wd0: 515MB (1056384 sectors), 1048 cyls, 16 > heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): > Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wd1: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 > heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa > Sep 17 23:14:56 buk /kernel: wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, > intr, iordis > > Has anyone reported bugs with the ATAPI support failing for IDE disks? > If so, which version are you using? If these problems have been > resolved, I would like to see IDE CD-ROMs supported in the GENERIC 2.1.0 > kernel (you'll sell more Walnut Creek CD-ROMs for sure :-) The 1.3 version is in -current (I committed the patches last week) And yes it still has problems with some old IDE disks that gets confused by the ATAPI probestuff. I'm not sure taht this is solvable at this point... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 00:50:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA06691 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:50:35 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA06686 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:50:34 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA01170 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:50:32 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509180750.AAA01170@ref.tfs.com> Subject: suspect code in 'unlink' syscall. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 00:50:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 701 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk looking at 'unlink (2)' I see, if (vp->v_type != VDIR || (error = suser(p->p_ucred, &p->p_acflag)) == 0) { /* * The root of a mounted filesystem cannot be deleted. */ if (vp->v_flag & VROOT) error = EBUSY; else (void) vnode_pager_uncache(vp); } I translate this as: "if it's not a DIR, or we are root", check if we are deleteing the root of an FS, if not, flush cache...... now, if we were NOT root, and it IS a dir...... (normal...) can we delete it? I'm about to try this.. if you dont hear from me, the building exploded... julian :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 01:01:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA07244 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:01:44 -0700 Received: from localhost.lightside.com (user42.lightside.com [198.81.209.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA07237 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:01:40 -0700 Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by localhost.lightside.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA00175; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:02:24 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:01:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@localhost To: sos@freebsd.org cc: davidg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org, vak@cronyx.ru Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... In-Reply-To: <199509180715.AAA05935@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Sep 1995 sos@freebsd.org wrote: > In reply to Jake Hamby who wrote: > > > > On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, David Greenman wrote: > > > > > There are serious bugs in the code at the moment that cause it to break > > > support for a significant number of IDE _disks_. I will not be bringing in > > > this code until those bugs are fixed. > > > > > > -DG > > > > Has anyone reported bugs with the ATAPI support failing for IDE disks? > > If so, which version are you using? If these problems have been > > resolved, I would like to see IDE CD-ROMs supported in the GENERIC 2.1.0 > > kernel (you'll sell more Walnut Creek CD-ROMs for sure :-) > > The 1.3 version is in -current (I committed the patches last week) > And yes it still has problems with some old IDE disks that gets > confused by the ATAPI probestuff. I'm not sure taht this is solvable > at this point... > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team > So much code to hack -- so little time Okay, the way I see it, there are three possible choices for ATAPI support in 2.1.0-RELEASE: 1) Don't support IDE CD-ROMs at all. This is, IMHO, the worst choice, since it shuts out a number of users, and will reduce the number of CD's Walnut Creek sells. Of course, you could argue that a suitably advanced user would roll their own ATAPI kernel, put it on a custom boot disk, and install 2.1.0-RELEASE from the CD, but if they don't have an existing FreeBSD system, this is impossible. 2) Make a special boot floppy for ATAPI support (a la Linux boot/root disks, where there is an IDE kernel and three different SCSI kernels due to various incompatibilities). This is kind of silly, and until now, hasn't been necessary, since the userconfig option normally allows probing for individual devices to be enabled/disabled at boot time, but since ATAPI is an option and not a device driver, it can't be disabled in this way. Still, there are other users who would benefit from an alternate kernel: For example, laptop users who can't get syscons to work, might need a pcvt-based kernel. And after all, there's plenty of room for an extra 1200k boot floppy on the CD. 3) Put ATAPI support in GENERIC and have an alternate floppy for people with old IDE hard drives that fail under the ATAPI probe. This is very similar to #2, but assumes that there are more users with IDE CD-ROMs than users with old, ATAPI-incompatible IDE hard drives (a fair assumption?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jake Hamby | E-Mail: jehamby@lightside.com Student, Cal Poly University, Pomona | System Administrator, JPL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 01:06:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA07417 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:06:54 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA07411 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:06:51 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA01219; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:06:49 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509180806.BAA01219@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: suspect code in 'unlink' syscall. To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509180750.AAA01170@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 18, 95 00:50:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 952 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > looking at 'unlink (2)' > I see, > if (vp->v_type != VDIR || > (error = suser(p->p_ucred, &p->p_acflag)) == 0) { > /* > * The root of a mounted filesystem cannot be deleted. > */ > if (vp->v_flag & VROOT) > error = EBUSY; > else > (void) vnode_pager_uncache(vp); > } > > I translate this as: > "if it's not a DIR, or we are root", > check if we are deleteing the > root of an FS, > if not, flush cache...... > > now, if we were NOT root, and it IS a dir...... (normal...) > > can we delete it? The answer is 'NO' but I'm not sure I see why.. AH I just found it.. only root can unlink a dir, all others can only do 'rmdir' calls.. ok, I admit it.. I need to go to sleep. > I'm about to try this.. > if you don't hear from me, the building exploded... It didn't > > julian :) > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 01:12:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA07594 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:12:44 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA07588 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:12:39 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA01244; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:12:20 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509180812.BAA01244@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sos@freebsd.org, davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org, vak@cronyx.ru In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Sep 18, 95 01:01:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 670 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Okay, the way I see it, there are three possible choices for ATAPI support > in 2.1.0-RELEASE: > > 1) Don't support IDE CD-ROMs at all. This is, IMHO, the worst choice, I agree.. it's almost suicide to not include it.. > > 2) Make a special boot floppy for ATAPI support (a la Linux boot/root hmmm, 'fair' > > 3) Put ATAPI support in GENERIC and have an alternate floppy for people basically a version of the previous.. 4) code the probe, so that if the ATAPI is dissabled via the '-c' then it acts as before.. most people will be able to work with it on,.. include a FAQ answer to say to disable the ATAPI if you don't have one and disks aren't probing.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 01:35:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA07999 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:35:03 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA07991 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 01:34:53 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA14431; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:30:56 +1000 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:30:56 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509180830.SAA14431@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jehamby@lightside.com, sos@freebsd.org Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... Cc: davidg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org, vak@cronyx.ru Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Has anyone reported bugs with the ATAPI support failing for IDE disks? >> If so, which version are you using? If these problems have been >> resolved, I would like to see IDE CD-ROMs supported in the GENERIC 2.1.0 >> kernel (you'll sell more Walnut Creek CD-ROMs for sure :-) Yes. All versions. Not resolved yet. >The 1.3 version is in -current (I committed the patches last week) >And yes it still has problems with some old IDE disks that gets >confused by the ATAPI probestuff. I'm not sure taht this is solvable >at this point... The probe begins with wdreset() which is already weakened (broken) to pass both IDE drives and IDE cdroms. The following bugs in wdreset() are known: 1) it doesn't do a drive select, so it may be reading the status register for a random drive. 2) it only looks at the status register for one drive. 3) if all drives and cdroms followed the specs, then it should be testing for (dk_status == 0x50) (which implies that a drive is attached) || (dk_status == 0x00) (which implies that a cdrom is attached). It actually tests for ((dk_status & 0x50) == 0x00) which passes drives, cdroms, and anything that sets the 0x50 bits to 0x10 or 0x40 and the other bits to 0x00. 4) some drives set the 0x02 bit in dk_status. There may be a problem when wdreset() is called from wdunwedge(). wdunwedge() knows to reset some internal state for drives. It doesn't know anything about cdroms. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 02:13:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA09546 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 02:13:10 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA09530 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 02:12:57 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA16027; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:12:52 +1000 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:12:52 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509180912.TAA16027@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com Subject: Re: Adding/deleting partitions should be Linux-like Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >In order to make room for 2.1.0-STABLE source on my hard drive, I got rid >of a 400 meg DOS partition and tried to add it as /usr/src to FreeBSD. I >had nothing but trouble, since fdisk and disklabel are RIDICULOUSLY >difficult to use. No matter how much I RTFM, I just could not figure out >how to change partition 1 from MSDOS to FreeBSD, fdisk -u /dev/rwd0 # for IDE drive 0 # Hit return to accept the default for everything except: # - answer `y' to the question about changing the partition # (slice) you want to change. # - supply a new value of 165 for the `sysid' of that slice. # - answer `y' to the question about the entry being correct. # - answer `y' to the question about writing the new changes. This step can be skipped if you are in a hurry and don't need to boot from the slice. You just have to worry about other OS's thinking that they own it. >nor would newfs work >properly without a description of the partition size. It seemed that >everything revolved around writing an /etc/disktab which I did NOT want >to do. In comparison, Linux's mkfs command automagically sizes the >partition and creates the filesystem. Yes, Linux's mkfs gets the size of the partition from the DOS partition table, while BSD's newfs gets the size of the partition from the label. newfs would work better if there was a dummy label for each slice. Currently, only the whole disk slice has a dummy label. It's done this way to reduce the chance of newfs'ing non-BSD slices. To avoid changing /etc/disktab, I sometimes use: disklabel -r -w sd1s2 floppy5 # bogusly label my sd1s2 as a floppy disklabel /dev/rsd1 >/tmp/foo # remember hints about sd1's geometry disklabel -e sd1s2 # edit label to what it should be >I know, I know, the Berkeley FFS >wants to know the cylinder/head/sector geometry in order to optimize the >layout, Not in FreeBSD. The default is to use a big fictitous geometry ... >but with the geometry translations of IDE (and SCSI?) drives, >trying to do this properly is probably futile. ... since a big fictitious geometry is no worse than a small fictitious geometry supplied by drives, and better than a wrong fictitions geometry supplied by confused installers. >Anyway, I ended up booting my FreeBSD boot disk to run sysinstall and >create the filesystem. After a couple of failures, I managed to create This is said to be easier using Wizard mode. >and mkfs a FreeBSD partition with a single /usr/src slice, but then >FreeBSD wouldn't boot! I realized that the FreeBSD boot loader assumes >partition one (my new /usr/src) is the root partition, so it couldn't find >the kernel. Back to square one. I finally ended up using my trusty LINUX Adding a new FreeBSD slice before the one with the bootstrap would give you a different compatibility slice that you can't boot from. This can be worked around by rearranging the DOS partitions or simply by not changing the sysid of the new FreeBSD slice - change it Linux or No-nix (better not leave it as DOS). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 02:53:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA10477 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 02:53:58 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA10467 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 02:53:43 -0700 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA08948; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:43:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199509180843.KAA08948@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: julian@freefall.freebsd.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:43:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509180640.XAA05368@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 17, 95 11:40:19 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1279 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > if ((cnp->cn_flags & HASBUF) == 0) > MALLOC(cnp->cn_pnbuf, caddr_t, MAXPATHLEN, M_NAMEI, M_WAITOK); > [....] > > if (error) { > free(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); ^^^^ Is this just a typo? Shouldn't it be a FREE() macro like below? > ndp->ni_vp = NULL; > return (error); > [...] > if (error) { > FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); > return (error); > [....] (and more confusingly) > if ((cnp->cn_flags & ISSYMLINK) == 0) { > if ((cnp->cn_flags & (SAVENAME | SAVESTART)) == 0) > FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); > else > cnp->cn_flags |= HASBUF; > return (0); > } > [....] > FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); > } > > if HASBUF was set, we have freed something we didn't allocate.. > (whenever we get an error, by the looks of it..) > > luckily I can't actually see anywhere that HASBUF is used > (can anyone?) but it looks wrong to me... > > > > julian > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 04:39:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA13044 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 04:39:39 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA13037 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 04:39:23 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA20899; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:14:26 +1000 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:14:26 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509181114.VAA20899@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, julian@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > if ((cnp->cn_flags & HASBUF) == 0) > MALLOC(cnp->cn_pnbuf, caddr_t, MAXPATHLEN, M_NAMEI, M_WAITOK); >[....] It has a buffer now, although HASBUF is sometimes (usually?) not set. > if (error) { > free(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); > ndp->ni_vp = NULL; > return (error); >[...] > if (error) { > FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); > return (error); All the frees are OK, but it isn't obvious that returning with HASBUF set is OK. Apparently namei() is never called again with the same cnp after an error, so there is no problem. Note that foofs_abortop() doesn't bother to clear HASBUF after freeing the buffer. >[....] (and more confusingly) > if ((cnp->cn_flags & ISSYMLINK) == 0) { > if ((cnp->cn_flags & (SAVENAME | SAVESTART)) == 0) > FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); > else > cnp->cn_flags |= HASBUF; > return (0); > } This is only non-error return. If HASBUF was set earlier, then you would have worry about HASBUF being set for all the error returns (or add a lot of code to clear it). The (SAVESTART | SAVENAME) case is confusing here and elsewhere. Apparently it is not necessary to clear HASBUF after freeing the buffer here. >if HASBUF was set, we have freed something we didn't allocate.. >(whenever we get an error, by the looks of it..) It seems that error handlers are required to free the buffer no matter where it was allocated and everything is supposed to ignore HASBUF (perhaps everything in *cnp?) after an error. Except if SAVESTART is set, then only the caller must free. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 05:13:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA13714 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:13:35 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA13709 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:13:32 -0700 Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA24431; Mon, 18 Sep 95 07:47:51 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id HAA15090; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:47:42 -0400 Message-Id: <199509181147.HAA15090@exalt.x.org> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:04:17 EST. <199509172004.NAA06540@phaeton.artisoft.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:47:42 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers > accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. > > It's purpose would be to print wchar_t strings that are "NULL" terminated; > the actual output would include the embedded NULL's. This would be true > 16 bit character output. > > I'd also like the wchar_t value to be 16 rather than 32 bits. That would be a serious mistake. All modern OSes are using 32-bit wchar_t. Don't take a step backward. > Other > than page 0 (Unicode), no other code pages in ISO-10646 have yet been > allocated. Er, I don't have my copy of 10646 here at home. As I recall page 0 is just Latin1. If page 0 is in fact Unicode, which already has encodings for every written language on Earth, then what would 10646 need any other pages for? The 2.1.0-SNAP has a Japanese EUC and Cyrillic code pages, which, as I recall, are not on page 0. > This would affect constant ISO 8859-1 strings using the 'L' quailfier; > for example: > > > main() > { > printf( "%S\n", L"Hello World"); > } > To print a widechar string you should convert it to a multi-byte string with wcstombs and then print it. Because you're asking for 16-bit wchar_t I presume you have a large number of strings and are concerned about the amount of space they'll use when stored in your program file. If that's the case your strings should be stored in locale specific message catalogs. Because wchar_t is different, i.e. 16-bit on some systems, 32-bit on others, you never store wchar_t strings in a file. You always convert them to multi-byte strings with wcstombs before writing to a file. Since the locale the file was created in is not recorded in the file the burden is on the user to remember and use the correct locale when rereading the file and convert it back to a wchar_t string with mbstowcs. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 05:19:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA13822 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:19:30 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA13817 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:19:19 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA23027; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:10:26 +1000 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:10:26 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509181210.WAA23027@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, mal@aristotle.algonet.se Subject: Re: xntpd (or kernel) timekeeping problem? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I configured my machine to run xntpd about a month ago (running ~2.0.5). >The error in the system clock frequency was to large for ntp to lock it. >After changing the tickadj args to "-q -t 9995 -a 5" it locked fine with >a drift around 50 ppm. Today I updated all of my binaries (including kernel) >to a fresh 2.1-stable version, and ntp still seems to like the 500 ppm hack >(i.e. the new values in ntp.drift still are around 50 ppm with the tickadj >args above). >Is this a problem in xntpd or the kernel? It is a bit suspicius that hacking >tickadj exactly one tick makes the drift very low... The problem is that the oscillator driving the 8254 clock is not very accurate. On your machine it is apparently wrong by about -5us per clock interrupt (about 5 8254 cycles), but fortunately it doesn't drift very much. On one of my machines it is wrong by about +8us per clock interrupt while on another it is wrong by about -3us. The best fix is to calibrate the maximum counts in isa/clock.c with reference to an accurate clock (harclock_max_count should be about 11937 instead of 11932 on your machine). Calibration is hard to do since there is no generally available accurate clock. ISA systems have another clock (the RTC) of unknown accuracy. On my machines it seems to be more accurate and just as stable as the 8254 clock. Using tickadj introduces a consistent error in microtime() near clock interrupts. Next year's machines, if not this year's, should be able to call gettimeofday() twice within 5us. Then they will see the time go backwards if `tickadj -t 9995' is used. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 05:32:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA14131 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:32:45 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA14126 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:32:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA06587; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:31:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:47:42 EST." <199509181147.HAA15090@exalt.x.org> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:31:58 -0700 Message-ID: <6585.811427518@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Er, I don't have my copy of 10646 here at home. As I recall page 0 is just > Latin1. If page 0 is in fact Unicode, which already has encodings for every > written language on Earth, then what would 10646 need any other pages for? The rest of the languages of course. :-) Remember that the american continent wasn't with for until they found it... As far as I recall there is still some concern about Sanskrit and 10646 isn't there ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 05:37:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA14307 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:37:10 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA14301 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:37:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA06601; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:35:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, mal@aristotle.algonet.se Subject: Re: xntpd (or kernel) timekeeping problem? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:10:26 +1000." <199509181210.WAA23027@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:35:45 -0700 Message-ID: <6599.811427745@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 11932 on your machine). Calibration is hard to do since there is no > generally available accurate clock. ISA systems have another clock (the > RTC) of unknown accuracy. On my machines it seems to be more accurate > and just as stable as the 8254 clock. Actually I used xntpd to calibrate, I ran it, figured out that the drift was terrible/untolerable, tweaked the kernel, waited a week, tweaked it some more, waited a week, until my ntp had a nice avg drift of almost zero over a week... (notice that ntp may itself have a diurnal (or other period) variance depending on your networks load, but over a week, you will get the drift (pun intended) :-) What we really need is a neat little utility you can run by hand, that will run a ntpdate and figure out your drift since last you did that... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 05:44:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA14590 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:44:21 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA14572 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:43:55 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA23935; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:36:33 +1000 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:36:33 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509181236.WAA23935@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers >accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. I don't want wchar_t's in the kernel. >I'd also like the wchar_t value to be 16 rather than 32 bits. Other >than page 0 (Unicode), no other code pages in ISO-10646 have yet been >allocated. I think wchar_t's were made 32 bits so that they are the same as rune_t's. I don't know if this is important. >This would affect constant ISO 8859-1 strings using the 'L' quailfier; >for example: >main() >{ > printf( "%S\n", L"Hello World"); >} How are you supposed to print such strings in ANSI C? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 06:00:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA14925 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:00:27 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA14919 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:00:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA25628; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:00:17 -0700 To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org cc: mdg@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Looking for helpers with "the new sysinstall" - setup. Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:00:17 -0700 Message-ID: <25625.811429217@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk First, before I even start in here, let me just clarify that "the new sysinstall" is not actually the working title of what I'm trying to create here. I just used that phrase to set the context of what it is we're talking about, which is a general installation and setup tool. The new utility to take sysinstall's place will, in fact, be called "setup" and I'll refer to it by that name in the rest of this message. Second, it should be understood that I'm going out on a limb a bit here by even talking about this. There are some, erm, contraversal aspects to the approach I've taken with setup and in some ways I would be far better off just finishing it in a corner and springing it on all of you at the last minute, after it's too late to complain.. :-) However, I also think that our history of having one or two people working on the installation in a corner someplace has actually cost us a fair bit in terms of user input and the kind of cooperative strategy that FreeBSD enjoys in most other parts of its development, so I'm going to take a chance here and see if we can't do the next generation installer as a more cooperative effort. Please try not to give me cause to regret this decision! :-) Finally (long preamble, this!), it should also be made clear that this is not a 2.1 item. This is a 2.2 project. I had some fond hopes of getting this into 2.1, but it's now looking like it's just going to take more time than we have to *really* do it right, and doing it wrong in the name of expediency is exactly what we've done all along and necessitated all these re-writes in the first place! I would like to take some time to develop this new framework properly so that it can really, truly be the last installation tool I write for some time to come (oh please oh please :-). I have made enough improvements to "the old sysinstall" that I think the 2.1 users will be happy enough with it until we can finish this one. OK, now on to the meat! The first and most striking aspect of setup is that it's no longer a monolithic installation tool but rather a "nucleus" of sorts for creating installations. Setup has no hard-wired knowledge of a given FreeBSD distribution or even what components make up a distribution - all that information is external to the program. The second aspect of setup, and an outgrowth of the need for such an installation nucleus, is that it has an interpreted language imbeded in it for describing such interactions, behaviors, etc. This language is (and here comes the contraversy) forth. Why forth? Well, several important reasons: 1. It's small. The entire forth interpreter I'm using fits in 40K. For something we'll be sticking on a boot floppy, especially given that we're limited to static linking only, this is *crucial*. Yes, I'm a big fan of TCL too and have used it in a number of commercial applications, but we're talking *280K* for the simplest TCL based app vs 40K for the forth engine. On a boot floppy, an extra 240K is like the difference between life and death. 2. It's easy (in this interpreter, anyway) to hook new C calls in. Forth has no innate types of its own to get in the way, whereas TCL demands that anything passing through "TCL space" be coerced to a string, and that means that you either do really gross things to represent pointer types as strings and convert back and forth or that you indirect everything through a hash table. This is one of TCL's least happy features. With forth, I can cram an entire untranslated C struct onto the stack (or somewhere in memory) if I like and as long as the forth words know what to expect, it just works. 3. It's light-weight. I didn't need an all-singing, all-dancing object oriented environment for setup, I just needed some way of being able to say "go run whatever's in that file over there" so that I could decouple installation mechanism from installation policy. So whether or not you're a fan of forth, and I personally feel that the language has been unfairly maligned in the past by those who missed the fundamental point about what sorts of things it was actually applicable to, that's the language that setup uses and I'm not very likely to change my mind about this. TCL and PERL are just too big, and I see no reason to reinvent the wheel when a perfectly good public domain forth interpreter was available from John Walker, the inventor of AutoCAD. It works very well indeed! Anyway, moving right along, the fundamental approach of setup is to provide a whole set of useful primitives for doing scribbing on MBRs, doing file I/O, opening FTP connections (which are abstracted as ordinary files - no fussing about there), putting up dialogs, drawing on the screen with curses, doing complex string and associative array handling, and so on. All the decisions as to how a release is put together, that is how to extract bits of it and what sorts of questions to ask the user, are left to the "external" portions of setup. In typical usage, I would see setup coming up off a floppy and looking into the MFS area for an initialization file. This would be read in and would be responsible for "bootstrapping" the system. Depending on the media type chosen (a media selection menu would be one of the very first options the user was presented with), setup would then transfer control to a media-specific installation script. On the CDROM, this could be a fairly CD-centric installation that knew where to find everything and wouldn't have to ask the user many questions about that. For an FTP install, the top level installation routines could even *change* as we perfected the release and otherwise updated it. The top level menu of the FTP install would probably be something to the effect of "which release do you want to load? Here are the ones available at this site." Depending on the release chosen, yet another file would be invoked for presenting menus relevant to that release. It wouldn't even matter if the user had a 6 month old boot floppy - only the external files need to change (though I have made version and revision information available so that the scripts can conditionalize on features we may add to the setup progrm later). I think people can sort of see where I'm going with all this.. :-) Anyway, what I've implemented so far are: o String and file handling functions. o Most of the interesting system calls. o ftp login/get/put/chdir and get/put by URL. o hash tables (for associative arrays) o dialog functions o curses functions o A small debugger (for debugging forth code) o extensions for structs / case / breakpoints / etc. o higher level I/O functions like printf/fprintf/puts/gets/etc. o A simplistic "library" mechanism for adding C functions to the core interpreter in a reasonably clean and segregated fashion. What I still need to implement: o devconf / sysctl interface o string/button/etc objects in libdialog (I have all the menus and popup requestors, but none of the advanced stuff used in apps like pkg_manage). o A "dd" primitive for copying filehandles. o Access to all the mount primitives o Access to the libdisk primitives o Access to fstab parsing primitives o access to ifconfig primitives o fork/exec/wait And I'm sure there's more, but I've only been working on this for about 2 weeks and could use some feedback and/or help. I feel very strongly that this is the only approach that will finally get us past the limitations inherent in doing installations as monolithic C programs that cannot be easily extended and I'm very eager to see just where we can go with this.. If the chosen interpreter bothers you then don't think of it as forth, think of it as a very very powerful macro language! :-) A very early snapshot of my work is now on: ftp://freefall.freebsd.org/incoming/setup.tar.gz I would like to emphasise that this is probably only of interest to those who are genuinely interested in working with me on setup since this is very early days code here. It implements the primitives I described earlier and does represent the overall direction I'd like to go in, but it's still a very skeletal framework. In some ways that's good, since those of you who really would like to be a part of making setup into the coolest installation and management utility ever for UNIX at least have a chance to get in on the ground floor.. :-) Feedback more than welcome! Genuine offers of assistence even more so! I'm really very happy to work with anyone genuinely motivated to get involved with this and will do whatever I can to explain the overall framework, how to add C primitives, etc. but please, don't pipe up unless you're really interested in going the distance with this! Explaining any work-in-progress takes serious time and time is something I'm very short on right now. A genuine "investment" in bringing someone up to speed I'm more than happy to make, but if people just pelt me with questions and then go away again it will only impede progress and send me off in a corner again, muttering bitterly to myself about people who waste my time.. :) Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 06:02:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA15070 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:02:47 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA15062 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:02:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA08300 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:02:30 -0400 Message-Id: <199509181302.JAA08300@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:02:29 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans said: > Calibration is hard to do since there is no generally available > accurate clock. GPS? Accurate *and* stable. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 06:25:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA15680 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:25:01 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA15671 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:24:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA06726; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:23:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, mdg@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Looking for helpers with "the new sysinstall" - setup. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:00:17 PDT." <25625.811429217@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:23:53 -0700 Message-ID: <6724.811430633@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > First, before I even start in here, let me just clarify that "the new > sysinstall" is not actually the working title of what I'm trying to I like it, I belive it is right to push this out to 2.2 and yes, if I get time I will certainly jump in, but not the first month or two I'm afraid. And btw, forth is the right language for this -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 06:28:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA15839 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:28:45 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA15834 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:28:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA06762; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:27:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:36:33 +1000." <199509181236.WAA23935@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:27:44 -0700 Message-ID: <6760.811430864@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers > >accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. > > I don't want wchar_t's in the kernel. I also fail to see the need for this, and even if I did see the need, I still think we shouldn't have them in the kernel... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 06:55:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA16494 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:55:36 -0700 Received: from dtihost.datatrek.com (dtihost.datatrek.com [204.31.148.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA16489 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:55:33 -0700 Received: from gcrutcher (gcrutcher.datatrek.com [204.33.82.254]) by dtihost.datatrek.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA08762 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:54:03 -0700 X-Mailer: Mi'Mail from IRISoft Works, Evaluation Version 1.11 From: gcrutcher@datatrek.com (Gary Crutcher) Subject: User disk space quotas Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:53:32 Message-Id: <18091995065552320.II18467@datatrek.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Content-Type: Text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi gang, Could someone please explain to me, in detail, how to get user disk=20 space quotas implemented. I have read the manpages about using edquota,= =20 but there is no doc on the file format or what exactly an administartor= =20 has to enter. Any help would be appreciated. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 07:15:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA17020 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:15:17 -0700 Received: from Relay1.Austria.EU.net (relay1.Austria.EU.net [192.92.138.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA17015 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:15:10 -0700 From: marino.ladavac@aut.alcatel.at Received: from aut.alcatel.at (dnisun.aut.alcatel.at) by Relay1.Austria.EU.net with SMTP id AA23199 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:14:49 +0200 Received: from atuhc16 by aut.alcatel.at (4.1/SMI-4.1/AAA-1.29/main) id AB18832; Mon, 18 Sep 95 16:14:49 +0200 Message-Id: <9509181414.AB18832@atuhc16.aut.alcatel.at> Received: by atuhc16 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01497; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:14:56 +0200 Subject: Re: Looking for helpers with "the new sysinstall" - setup. To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 16:14:55 METDST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6724.811430633@critter.tfs.com>; from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Sep 18, 95 6:23 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > First, before I even start in here, let me just clarify that "the new > > sysinstall" is not actually the working title of what I'm trying to > I like it, I belive it is right to push this out to 2.2 and yes, if I get > time I will certainly jump in, but not the first month or two I'm afraid. > And btw, forth is the right language for this Sounds interesting. I'll most probably join. /Alby P.S: 40k Forth interpreter sounds ridiculously bloated. Gotta see *that* beast :) > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. > http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. > whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. > Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 07:42:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA18019 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:42:31 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA18008 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:42:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA27815; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:41:05 -0700 To: marino.ladavac@aut.alcatel.at cc: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Looking for helpers with "the new sysinstall" - setup. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:14:55 +0700." <9509181414.AB18832@atuhc16.aut.alcatel.at> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:41:05 -0700 Message-ID: <27813.811435265@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > P.S: 40k Forth interpreter sounds ridiculously bloated. Gotta see *that* > beast :) Well, I'm always open to ideas on shrinking things.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 08:06:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA18733 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 08:06:30 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA18728 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 08:06:29 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA12492; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 08:06:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199509181506.IAA12492@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com Subject: Re: Adding/deleting partitions should be Linux-like In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:12:52 +1000." <199509180912.TAA16027@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 08:06:02 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>In order to make room for 2.1.0-STABLE source on my hard drive, I got rid >>of a 400 meg DOS partition and tried to add it as /usr/src to FreeBSD. I >>had nothing but trouble, since fdisk and disklabel are RIDICULOUSLY >>difficult to use. No matter how much I RTFM, I just could not figure out >>how to change partition 1 from MSDOS to FreeBSD, > > fdisk -u /dev/rwd0 # for IDE drive 0 > # Hit return to accept the default for everything except: > # - answer `y' to the question about changing the partition > # (slice) you want to change. > # - supply a new value of 165 for the `sysid' of that slice. > # - answer `y' to the question about the entry being correct. > # - answer `y' to the question about writing the new changes. Can you "fix" fdisk -i? I don't know enough about what the proper offsets should be, but it certainly does the wrong thing for people now. >Bruce -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 08:55:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA20688 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 08:55:24 -0700 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA20682 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 08:55:20 -0700 Received: from syslab11.csdept (syslab11.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.14.11]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02220 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:55:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:55:19 -0400 From: Chitra Venkatramani Message-Id: <199509181555.LAA02220@cs.sunysb.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: DC21040 PCI Ethernet question Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have the following questions about the 100Mbps Ethernet controller: 1) This card does DMA from specified memory addresses. How do I know when the DMA completes ? ie, I would actually like to know when I can safely modify the locations from which I'd requested data to be DMA'ed ? 2) What are the total sizes of the transmit and receive buffers on the DC21040 card? Thanks in advance -Chitra Venkatramani (chitra@cs.sunysb.edu) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 09:03:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA20838 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:03:17 -0700 Received: from dtihost.datatrek.com (dtihost.datatrek.com [204.31.148.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA20830 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:03:15 -0700 Received: from gcrutcher (gcrutcher.datatrek.com [204.33.82.254]) by dtihost.datatrek.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA09069 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:01:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Mi'Mail from IRISoft Works, Evaluation Version 1.11 From: gcrutcher@datatrek.com (Gary Crutcher) Subject: User disk space quotas Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:53:32 Message-Id: <18091995090335410.II41@datatrek.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Content-Type: Text/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi gang, Could someone please explain to me, in detail, how to get user disk space quotas implemented. I have read the manpages about using edquota, but there is no doc on the file format or what exactly an administartor has to enter. Any help would be appreciated. Gary --------------------------------------------------- Gary Crutcher voice: 619-431-8400 x140 Mgr. New Technology fax: 619-431-8448 Data Trek, Inc. email: gcrutcher@datatrek.com 5838 Edison Place Carlsbad, CA. 92008 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 09:30:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA21750 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:30:47 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA21740 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:30:45 -0700 Received: from gemini ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16559(4)>; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:26:26 PDT Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07244; Mon, 18 Sep 95 12:26:16 EDT Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28559; Mon, 18 Sep 95 12:26:15 EDT Message-Id: <9509181626.AA28559@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Bruce Evans , hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com Subject: Re: Adding/deleting partitions should be Linux-like In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 1995 08:06:02 PDT." <199509181506.IAA12492@aslan.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:26:12 PDT From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>In order to make room for 2.1.0-STABLE source on my hard drive, I got rid > >>of a 400 meg DOS partition and tried to add it as /usr/src to FreeBSD. I > >>had nothing but trouble, since fdisk and disklabel are RIDICULOUSLY > >>difficult to use. No matter how much I RTFM, I just could not figure out > >>how to change partition 1 from MSDOS to FreeBSD, > > > I just installed 2.05 on a system (I already had a 2.0 system there, I wanted to use another disk on the system with a FreeBSD slice...) Turns out the partitioning information gives everything in sectors, I find megabytes useful, I ended up using the linux fdisk to make my freebsd partition... marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 10:13:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA23627 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:13:01 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23616 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:12:54 -0700 Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA02145; Mon, 18 Sep 95 13:12:22 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id NAA15302; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:12:17 -0400 Message-Id: <199509181712.NAA15302@exalt.x.org> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 18 Sep 1995 05:31:58 EST. <6585.811427518@critter.tfs.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:12:17 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Er, I don't have my copy of 10646 here at home. As I recall page 0 is just > > Latin1. If page 0 is in fact Unicode, which already has encodings for every > > written language on Earth, then what would 10646 need any other pages for? > The rest of the languages of course. :-) If page 0 (sic) is Unicode, which has *all* the languages, then what would the "rest of the languages" be? > Remember that the american continent wasn't with for until they found it... I can't parse this. Would somebody translate into German or Spanish for me? > As far as I recall there is still some concern about Sanskrit and 10646 > isn't there ? Does 10646 have Cuneiform? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 10:28:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA23854 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:28:28 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23849 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:28:24 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA01607; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 03:24:59 +1000 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 03:24:59 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509181724.DAA01607@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adding/deleting partitions should be Linux-like Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Can you "fix" fdisk -i? I don't know enough about what the proper offsets >should be, but it certainly does the wrong thing for people now. Offsets are system-dependent so it's impossible to get them right without asking. The -i flag is almost unusable now. It clears clears each partition entry that you say you want to change, and writes a new bootstrap if and only if you say that you want to change partition 3 (of 0-3). It should offer a choice of boot loaders starting with bteasy. Currently it installs `static unsigned char bootcode[] = { 0x33, 0xc0, 0xfa, ...' I don't know where the source for this is. This isn't worth working on, because sysinstall is too good :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 10:32:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA24058 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:32:26 -0700 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com (bakul@netcom10.netcom.com [192.100.81.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24051 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:32:24 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom10.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id KAA09594; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:27:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199509181727.KAA09594@netcom10.netcom.com> To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 95 05:31:58 PDT." <6585.811427518@critter.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 10:26:58 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As far as I recall there is still some concern about Sanskrit and 10646 > isn't there ? Last I looked Unicode handled Sanskrit and other Indian languages fine. [Indian languages support is dear to my heart so I looked into it back when Unicode-1 was being worked on -- AFAIK there have been no changes in this area since then] Presumably Terry wants Unicode support in the kernel so that one can print kernel messages in any language. While I agree with his sentiment IMHO we have a long way to go before that becomes critical. We need a filesystem that'll support Unicode file names, common applications need support for Unicode input/output etc. Hmm.... Support for reading/writing of Unicode filenames may be required in the kernel. How else can you deal with code like sprintf(name, "%s.core", p->p_comm); where p_comm points to a Unicode filename? Bruce writes: > I think wchar_t's were made 32 bits so that they are the same as rune_t's. > I don't know if this is important. I too think 16 bit is good enough. 10646 is a 32 bit standard but given that other than Unicode no other pages are populated and that Unicode supports all living and many (most?) dead languages and that except for scholars of dead languages (a tiny tiny percentage of people) no one else will benefit *even if* pages beyond Unicode are ever used, allowing for such extension now is IMHO a waste of space. rune_t can be made 16 bit, too. > How are you supposed to print such strings in ANSI C? If and when true wchar_t support becomes a reality, one presumes fonts for at least the local language and English will be supported. Window systems, with their bazillion fonts should have no problem :-). Printf support for wchar_t (and wchar_t *) should really be specified by the standards people. If they haven't, may be they should be petitioned. --bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 11:10:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA25217 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:10:46 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25212 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:10:45 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA12957; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:10:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199509181810.LAA12957@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com Subject: Re: Adding/deleting partitions should be Linux-like In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Sep 1995 03:24:59 +1000." <199509181724.DAA01607@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:10:27 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >This isn't worth working on, because sysinstall is too good :-). > >Bruce Then can you yank the code? It is more confusion than it is worth. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 11:22:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA25493 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:22:38 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25487 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:22:31 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id UAA29352 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:22:19 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA02518 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:22:22 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199509181822.UAA02518@knobel.gun.de> Subject: FreeBSD-stable of today: typo in /sys/sys/queue.h line 150: To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:22:22 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 513 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! After supping src-sys-stable on Mon Sep 18 20:22:13 MET DST 1995: Found a wrong control character in /sys/sys/queue.h the #define in line 145 #define TAILQ_INSERT_TAIL(head, elm, field) { ^ Instead of 'h' there was a control character. Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm You have lpd and need an intelligent print filter ?!! Ok, this might help: "apsfilter ... irgendwie clever" ftp it from ------> ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/Incoming/aps-491.tgz From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 12:47:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA28162 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:47:28 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA28154 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:47:25 -0700 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA09813 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:50:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:50:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199509181950.PAA09813@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone working on (or does it already exist) a utility to setup sysconfig? Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Boards and Routers for Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 12:49:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA28276 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:49:47 -0700 Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (root@pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA28262 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:49:32 -0700 Received: (from didier@localhost) by aida (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA00353; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:37:44 +0200 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:37:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: Didier Derny X-Sender: didier@aida To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: John Fieber , jdl@chromatic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... In-Reply-To: <11208.811387118@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > expensive?". They never looked in an Amiga magazine and discovered that a > > decent controller can be had for around US$70. I *know* it isn't the fact > > Darn straight. IVS Trumpcard Pro forever! :-) > > Jordan (former major Amiga fan until he gave his > little A2500 away to work on FreeBSD full-time) > > I mean that we generally have to pay an extra price for SCSI devices on PC. You can by an IDE controller for 20$ but an adaptec controller is about 120$. -- Didier Derny didier@aida.org --- I boycott everything from: new zealand, australia, denmark, england From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 12:53:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA28513 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:53:02 -0700 Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (root@pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA28253 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:49:15 -0700 Received: (from didier@localhost) by aida (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA00367; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:47:28 +0200 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:47:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Didier Derny X-Sender: didier@aida To: John Fieber cc: jdl@chromatic.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, John Fieber wrote: > On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Didier Derny wrote: > > > I can't see any reason why the SCSI controller and devices are so expensive. > > Marketing. If you look around, the devices are pretty competitive, thanks > to Apple for creating a mass market, but the PC SCSI controllers are > outrageous. I think it is because the billions of PC users have it in > their head that SCSI == server hardware == expensive and that is the end. > They never think a little further and ask "Does it really have to be that > expensive?". They never looked in an Amiga magazine and discovered that a > decent controller can be had for around US$70. I *know* it isn't the fact > that relative to IDE, SCSI controllers don't have a big enough market to > be low-cost. I wouldn't be surprised if Adaptec sells more SCSI > controllers in a month than most 3rd party SCSI manufactures for the Amiga > sold in their lifetime. > > And for the devices, SCSI devices are a much better investment because > they are platform independent. For example, one of my (recently deceased) > hard drives started life in an HP 720, lived in an Amiga for a couple > years and then in a PC for a couple years. My tape drive has a similar > story, although I don't know where it started life. Had I used some > platform specific specific device devices, I would have had to ditch a > tape drive and 3 hard drives when I switched platforms a couple years ago > (amiga->pc). That would have far more expensive than an outrageously > priced PC SCSI controller, never mind a reasonably priced one. > > Buy SCSI. You won't regret it. Low end Macintosh and Amigas use SCSI, > why not low end PC clowns? Just say NO to IDE! > > -john > > == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== > == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ > > for me the live with SCSI started in 1983 when I worked for Procep: The french Importator of Commodore computers. Procep wanted a hard disk for the CBM8032 so we started to develope a SASI interface for the CBM before the end of this project the SASI interface was renamed SCSI. My first driver was written with 256 Instructions of 6502 assembly language. I liked the philosophy of this system. So I try to buy a SCSI interface for my PC as soon as I have been able to afford it. -- Didier Derny didier@aida.org --- I boycott everything from: new zealand, australia, denmark, england From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 13:06:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29181 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:06:51 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29174 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:06:47 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA02361; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:05:21 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509182005.NAA02361@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <6760.811430864@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Sep 18, 95 06:27:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 784 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > >I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers > > >accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. > > > > I don't want wchar_t's in the kernel. > I also fail to see the need for this, and even if I did see the need, I > still think we shouldn't have them in the kernel... > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. > http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. > whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. > Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? > I would have to agree.. the kernel is too special a case to try make it generic in this way.. maybe a 'syslogd' that can translate well known system error messages might be more useful :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 13:07:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29251 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:07:49 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29246 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:07:45 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08387; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:04:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182004.NAA08387@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:04:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509181147.HAA15090@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Sep 18, 95 07:47:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 7764 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'd also like the wchar_t value to be 16 rather than 32 bits. > > That would be a serious mistake. All modern OSes are using 32-bit wchar_t. > Don't take a step backward. Windows 95 and Windows NT, arguably the largest two potential sources of Unicode aware software use a 16 bit wchar_t. This is specific to the releases of MSVC2.x that support Unicode. It is also specific to the Borland and other compilers that support generation of Win32 applications. Since These OS's already support Unicode, they are arguably more "modern" than those which do not. > > Other > > than page 0 (Unicode), no other code pages in ISO-10646 have yet been > > allocated. > > Er, I don't have my copy of 10646 here at home. As I recall page 0 is just > Latin1. If page 0 is in fact Unicode, which already has encodings for every > written language on Earth, then what would 10646 need any other pages for? Page 0 is Unicode. Pages are 16 bits witha 16 bit page selector in 10646. This was a nod to the Japanese to get them to support the inclusion of Unicode in standardized software at all. The Japanese hate Unicode for several reasons, some of which only make sense if you're French. 8-). The main problem they see is that the CJK unification put the characters in Chinese dictionary order. The next main problem is that it is not intrinsically tagged by language, so it isn't easy to tell the difference between a Chinese and a Japanese document. Another problem is that it isn't multilingual. If I take a document in Japanese that explains Chinese poetry, with embedded examples, then I get Chinese or Japanese characters for all text. Unicode expects these types of encoding data to be escaped into the text -- what they call an RTF or "Rich Text Format" file. The Japanese already have this using ISO 2022 and JIS 208+212, which combined allow the encoding of 21 languages. Unicode does *not* include all languages on Earth; in particular, most dead languages aren't supported. I personally have a number of problems with the encoding ordering for ligatured languages, like Tamil, Devengari, Hebrew, Arabic, etc., since there is an implied inability to use fixed cell rendering technologies, like X. The other code pages currently are not *for* anything, since they are unassigned, but they are expected to be for languages not covered by Unicode in general and dead languages in particular, as well as giving the Japanese (or anyone else) the ability to attribute by language within the Unicode set by using the high bits as attribution. At the cost of double the storage requirements. > The 2.1.0-SNAP has a Japanese EUC and Cyrillic code pages, which, > as I recall, are not on page 0. You are confusing the compatability regions for JIS-212. The Cyrillic *is* and always *has* been part of the Unicode standard. What hasn't been part of the standard is enforcement of KOI-8 character order. KOI-8 is a popular character set standard in the former Soviet Union, thought it is not yet supported by any national or international standards body. The main "win" for seperating these encodings is the ability to encode ordering information, which was expected to be encoded seperately from the Unicode standard in any case. For examply, many Northern European countries (like Germany) have multiple collation orders for alphabetization. Germany had "Dictionary" and "Telephone Book" orders which differ from each other. Again, at the cost of double the storage requirements. It's not expected that practical use will actually be made of the 10646 non-zero code pages anywhere in the near term, and even after that, it is expected that the pages will be used to resolve political rather than technical issues. > > This would affect constant ISO 8859-1 strings using the 'L' quailfier; > > for example: > > > > > > main() > > { > > printf( "%S\n", L"Hello World"); > > } > > > > To print a widechar string you should convert it to a multi-byte string > with wcstombs and then print it. This sucks. It assumes runic encoding for input to your display/rendering technology. This is *exactly* what Taligent was pushing when they set the adjacency of the characters in ligatured languages such that there was insufficient "private use areas" to embed the prerendered fixed cell forms for ligatured characters. This has the effect of deprecating X as a display technology because of the use of downloaded prerendered fonts that are blitted to the screen. Prerendered fonts can only have predefined ligature points if there are holes for glyph variants. > Because you're asking for 16-bit wchar_t > I presume you have a large number of strings and are concerned about the > amount of space they'll use when stored in your program file. If that's > the case your strings should be stored in locale specific message catalogs. No, the 16-bit wchar_t is a concernt for compatability with other systems, a desire to avoid runic encodindings which ruin the usability of fixed fileds in data entry and back end storage systems, NFS exported file system interoperability, and fixed directory entry block sizes of 1K or less for a 255 glyph file name component. I'm more than a bit worried about storage of information in a process encoding form so as to avoid the process/storage encoding translation overhead and the destruction of meaningful information by runic encoding file expansion, but this issue is secondary. > Because wchar_t is different, i.e. 16-bit on some systems, 32-bit on others, > you never store wchar_t strings in a file. You always convert them to > multi-byte strings with wcstombs before writing to a file. Rendering the file length meaningless and requiring the use of record oriented file systems with variant length records to handle data from fix length input fields from user interaction screens. Runic storage encoding: Just Say No. > Since the locale > the file was created in is not recorded in the file the burden is on the > user to remember and use the correct locale when rereading the file and > convert it back to a wchar_t string with mbstowcs. Yeah. That's the file attribution problem. But if you only care about internationalization (enabling a program or OS for data-driven localization to a single language) instead of about multinationalization (enabling a program or OS for multilingual support for characters which intersect in the unified international character set, like the Chinese and Japanese Glyphs for the unified ideogram "grass", for inherently multilingual use), then the problem is lessened. You still don't lose the ability to provide language attribution, it's just that *that's* when you go to what Unicode called "Rich Text Format" (and what the rest of us call "Compound Documents"). If you want to think about it for a bit, language encoding attribution for files, where you don't store everything as raw 16 bit wchar_t's (for Unicode) or raw 32 bit wchar_t's (for ISO 10646, with every other 16 bits '0x0000', since no code pages other than 0 are assigned) is tantamount to specifying a compression schema. An 8 bit storage encoding of Latin 1 (ISO-8859-1) is tantamount to a "compressed" Unicode document that was compressed using compression technique "ISO 8859-1", taking advantage of symmetry in the data to do the compression. This resolves the attribution issue by divorcing it from the need to use attribution on the data streams associated with the file (Ohta's argument against file attribution). Data pushed out of the file system is expanded in the file system buffers on the way out. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 13:17:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29856 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:17:03 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29818 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:16:22 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id QAA13985; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:17:47 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:17:47 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509182017.QAA13985@healer.com> To: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sysconfig Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Is anyone working on (or does it already exist) a utility to setup sysconfig? Yep. I'm working on it. If you want to work together, let me know. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 13:21:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA00404 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:21:36 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00396 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:21:30 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08435; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:19:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182019.NAA08435@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:19:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <6760.811430864@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Sep 18, 95 06:27:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2146 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > >I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers > > >accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. > > > > I don't want wchar_t's in the kernel. > I also fail to see the need for this, and even if I did see the need, I > still think we shouldn't have them in the kernel... Unicode encoding of file names without yanking around the value of MAXPATHLEN or MAXNAMLEN by runic encoding of the file name data. There is no method of determining the runic length required for an unknown file name before it is entered. File name entry will occur in process encoding. By divorcing process and storage encoding, you increase the length of a non-7-bit-ASCII string unpredictably when transforming it into the storage encoding format. How many characters do you let the user enter in the "file name" dialog before you tell them they've entered too many by visual or auditory feedback? If your storage encoding, like Plan9, is UTF-8, then the answer is you can allow them no more than 51 characters for file names, unless you provide a prohibitively expensive (in terms of interactive response time) "check" callback for character entry. Even if you implement such an expensive callback (after all, everyone will be running P6's, right?), you are limiting it such that using one set of glyphs vs. another vary the overall length allowed. That is, if you use ISO-8859-1 characters, and they are all in the range 0x80-0xff, you get a length limit of 127 characters for your file name, whereas if they are in the range 0x00-0x7f, you get the full 255. Characters outside the 0x00-0xff range of 8859-1 (for instance, all of the characters in 8859-2 through 8859-9 not intersecting with 8859-1) take 3-5 8-bit characters to encode, depending on their lexical position. Say "goodbye, fixed field input", say "goodbye, fixed length record storage", say "hello, record oriented file systems", say "hello, user interface rewrite for all internationally sold products". Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 13:32:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA00935 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:32:09 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA00926 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:32:04 -0700 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA09938; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:34:56 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:34:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199509182034.QAA09938@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Didier Derny From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, John Fieber wrote: > >> On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Didier Derny wrote: >> >> > I can't see any reason why the SCSI controller and devices are so expensive. >> >> Marketing. If you look around, the devices are pretty competitive, thanks >> to Apple for creating a mass market, but the PC SCSI controllers are >> outrageous. Get real. Marketing 101. VOLUME. IDE to SCSI sales have to be 1000 to 1. No rocket scientist's degree needed here. If its not in a Novell server or a unix box, its probably IDE. SCSI controllers are also much more functional than IDEs. Have you priced a bus-mastering IDE with a boot bios lately? No such animal. db ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Boards and Routers for Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 13:38:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA01209 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:38:04 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01202 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:37:59 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08492; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:34:25 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182034.NAA08492@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:34:25 -0700 (MST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509181727.KAA09594@netcom10.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Sep 18, 95 10:26:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3755 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As far as I recall there is still some concern about Sanskrit and 10646 > > isn't there ? > > Last I looked Unicode handled Sanskrit and other Indian > languages fine. [Indian languages support is dear to my > heart so I looked into it back when Unicode-1 was being > worked on -- AFAIK there have been no changes in this area > since then] Sanskrit is supported. So is Tamil, Devengari, Hebrew, Arabic, etc. The common factor on these is that they are ligatured languages, meaning the glyph for a character will differ based on the location relative to other glyphs. For English speakers, the bes explanation is "cursive writing" and then consider the number of ways you can connect the cursive letter 'e' to other letters, based on if it's at the first of the word, end of the word, or in the muddle of a word before or after a character like 'd', 'f', 'r', 'z', 'p', 'n', etc. > Presumably Terry wants Unicode support in the kernel so that > one can print kernel messages in any language. No, I want it for file names in a Unicode aware file system. I also want it for translation layers for remote mounts to Unicode unaware file systems (most NFS systems today). Finally, I want it for path name parsing translation for locally Unicode aware/unaware user space applications and underlying file systems. > While I agree with his sentiment IMHO we have a long way to go > before that becomes critical. We need a filesystem that'll > support Unicode file names, Got one. > common applications need support for Unicode input/output etc. Wrote an Xterm, have a 1M(!) 14 point font. Barely ROMable. 8-). > Hmm.... Support for reading/writing of Unicode filenames > may be required in the kernel. How else can you deal with > code like > > sprintf(name, "%s.core", p->p_comm); > > where p_comm points to a Unicode filename? Precisely. Also: #ifdef DIAGNOSTIC printf( "entering '%S' into cache\n", cnp->cn_cnp->pc_data); #endif /* DIAGNOSTIC*/ > Bruce writes: > > I think wchar_t's were made 32 bits so that they are the same as rune_t's. > > I don't know if this is important. > > I too think 16 bit is good enough. 10646 is a 32 bit > standard but given that other than Unicode no other pages > are populated and that Unicode supports all living and many > (most?) dead languages and that except for scholars of dead > languages (a tiny tiny percentage of people) no one else > will benefit *even if* pages beyond Unicode are ever used, > allowing for such extension now is IMHO a waste of space. > rune_t can be made 16 bit, too. No reason to not leave rune_t 32 bits so as to not throw out dead language support altogether. I'd like to play around with Egyptian Heirogplyphics and Linear B at some point (neither are supported by Unicode -- most dead languages without modern antecedants aren't). > Printf support for wchar_t (and wchar_t *) should really be > specified by the standards people. If they haven't, may be > they should be petitioned. I agree on that. But I think it is also being taken for granted that storage encoding will be distinct from process encoding. I think that this is a *big* mistake, for reasons pointed out in other posts. This implies either a content-based byte order translation (which I feel is an unacceptable performance penalty) or a specification of a storage encoding byte order on the premise that this will go over the wire. Which is what led me to propose network byte order in the first place. None of this would prevent switching from 16 to 32 bit wchar_t's at some future date, were it to be found to be desirable. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 13:41:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA01434 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:41:02 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01421 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:40:54 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08516; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:37:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182037.NAA08516@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:37:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509181712.NAA15302@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Sep 18, 95 01:12:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1123 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Er, I don't have my copy of 10646 here at home. As I recall page 0 > > > is just Latin1. If page 0 is in fact Unicode, which already has > > > encodings for every written language on Earth, then what would > > > 10646 need any other pages for? > > The rest of the languages of course. :-) > > If page 0 (sic) is Unicode, which has *all* the languages, then what would > the "rest of the languages" be? Dead languages, or live languages currently without written representations, being languages of a preliterate culture. > > Remember that the american continent wasn't with for until they found it... > > I can't parse this. Would somebody translate into German or Spanish for me? I can't parse it either. 8-). > > As far as I recall there is still some concern about Sanskrit and 10646 > > isn't there ? Sanskrit is supported. > Does 10646 have Cuneiform? No. It is a character set standard, not a glpyh encoding standard. So of course it does not have Cuneiform. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 13:48:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA01866 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:48:02 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01849 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:47:54 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08542; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:44:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182044.NAA08542@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:44:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199509182005.NAA02361@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 18, 95 01:05:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1465 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > >I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers > > > >accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. > > > > > > I don't want wchar_t's in the kernel. > > I also fail to see the need for this, and even if I did see the need, I > > still think we shouldn't have them in the kernel... > > I would have to agree.. > the kernel is too special a case to try make it generic in this way.. > maybe a 'syslogd' that can translate well known system error messages > might be more useful :) The intent in this case would be to print the NULL's and have the console ignore the display of them, or to truncate the strings as if they were ISO-8859-1 only. The purpose of this is to allow debugging of internationalized subsystems, in particular file system directory entry name space. This is *not* an attempt to support internationalization of kernel messages. Though that would be critically cool, it is an unlikely prospect in the extreme without additional support for argument positioning qualifiers for syntactic reordering of sentences. And I'm not asking for that (consider that Japanese sentence structure is SOV and english is SVO. Now consider an application that prints out two values in a single sentence, the order of which is dictated by logic of sentence structure). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 14:00:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA02320 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:00:11 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02315 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:00:02 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08583; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:57:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182057.NAA08583@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: julian@freefall.freebsd.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:57:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509180640.XAA05368@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 17, 95 11:40:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1952 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... buffer layering violation in the file system code ... ] > if HASBUF was set, we have freed something we didn't allocate.. > (whenever we get an error, by the looks of it..) > > luckily I can't actually see anywhere that HASBUF is used > (can anyone?) but it looks wrong to me... ufs_abortop uses it to determine freeing the buffer. Basically, any of the VOP_ABORTOP() file system layer calls implement this. Much of the DIAGNOSTIC code in the file systems uses this flag to cause animplied free of the buffer in case of failure or success. Lot of garbage code there. There is also SAVENAME and SAVESTART. SAVENAME and SAVESTART causes the HASBUF to be set after namei() because of the namei() not freeing the internal lookup buffer. A CREATE or RENAME operation implies a SAVENAME (this should be explicit in the NDINIT() instead of being in the per FS code, but is not). I have patches for all but the NFS server at this point that clean up this layering fiasco, though they leave the imply operation in the CREATE/RENAME case. The patches happen to modify vfs_syscalls.c for single entry/exit for all functions at the same time, something that was required for buffer allocation bookkeeping and wants to be done for kernel multithreading and SMP kernel reentrancy in any case. The patches explicitly free the buffer with a new call called nameifree() which takes the (struct nameidata *) argument that was passed to the original namei() call -- this instead of an implied free anywhere. The NFS stuff will take me some time to sort through. I'd rather put it off on someone else, actually. 8-). Volunteers? I'll send you my patches if you'll do the NFS changes. I have been running a stable system under regression for a week on the modified code with no problems and no memory leaks. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 14:07:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA02643 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:07:59 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02634 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:07:50 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08619; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:05:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182105.OAA08619@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: suspect code in 'unlink' syscall. To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:05:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509180750.AAA01170@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 18, 95 00:50:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1118 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > looking at 'unlink (2)' > I see, > if (vp->v_type != VDIR || > (error = suser(p->p_ucred, &p->p_acflag)) == 0) { > /* > * The root of a mounted filesystem cannot be deleted. > */ > if (vp->v_flag & VROOT) > error = EBUSY; > else > (void) vnode_pager_uncache(vp); > } > > I translate this as: > "if it's not a DIR, or we are root", > check if we are deleteing the > root of an FS, > if not, flush cache...... > > now, if we were NOT root, and it IS a dir...... (normal...) > > can we delete it? > I'm about to try this.. > if you dont hear from me, the building exploded... Invert the test. I made this mod some time ago: if( ( error = suser(p->p_ucred, &p->p_acflag)) == 0 || vp->v_type != VDIR) { This way, the error code will be set to EPERM if you are not root and the followon code will not be executed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 14:09:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA02771 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:09:57 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02752 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:09:48 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08630; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:06:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182106.OAA08630@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: suspect code in 'unlink' syscall. To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:06:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509180806.BAA01219@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 18, 95 01:06:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 565 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > now, if we were NOT root, and it IS a dir...... (normal...) > > > > can we delete it? > The answer is 'NO' but I'm not sure I see why.. Because the underlying FS will prevent it. > AH I just found it.. only root can unlink a dir, all others can > only do 'rmdir' calls.. ok, I admit it.. I need to go to sleep. No, this is a good correction. The semantics should be enforced at the system call layer where possible. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 14:14:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA02905 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:14:33 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02898 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:14:27 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08650; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:11:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182111.OAA08650@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:11:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509180843.KAA08948@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Sep 18, 95 10:43:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 941 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > free(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); > ^^^^ > Is this just a typo? Shouldn't it be a FREE() macro like below? > > [...] > > if (error) { > > FREE(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); > > return (error); No this is actually the code. The code is screwed, but it only shows if KMEMSTATS and DIAGNOSTIC are both undefined (see /sys/sys/malloc.h). David (?) said he'd go through and mung malloc.h so it wasn't broken (the non-KMEMSTATS case is an instance of legacy code in malloc.h). The code should still be cleaned up, however. I prefer the macroized version to allow later instrumentation. The access to the system clock timeval should be similarly macroized for atomicity of access reasons (vnode times update). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 14:15:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA02959 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:15:36 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02952 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:15:31 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08660; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:13:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509182113.OAA08660@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 14:13:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, julian@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509181114.VAA20899@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Sep 18, 95 09:14:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 622 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >if HASBUF was set, we have freed something we didn't allocate.. > >(whenever we get an error, by the looks of it..) > > It seems that error handlers are required to free the buffer no matter > where it was allocated and everything is supposed to ignore HASBUF > (perhaps everything in *cnp?) after an error. Except if SAVESTART is > set, then only the caller must free. Promise to do the NFS server code (nfs_namei()), and I'll send you the patches to fix all other instances. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 15:09:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA04861 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:09:46 -0700 Received: from aristotle.algonet.se (aristotle.algonet.se [193.12.207.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA04856 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:09:43 -0700 Received: from sophocles. (mal@sophocles.algonet.se [193.12.207.10]) by aristotle.algonet.se (8.6.9/hdw.1.0) with SMTP id AAA05827; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 00:09:08 +0200 Received: by sophocles. (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA19117; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 00:09:30 +0200 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 00:09:30 +0200 From: mal@aristotle.algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Message-Id: <9509182209.AA19117@sophocles.> To: bde@zeta.org.au Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509181210.WAA23027@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:10:26 +1000) Subject: Re: xntpd (or kernel) timekeeping problem? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think I have managed to make ntp sync now thanks to your information. What I did was to add a 'options "TIMER_FREQ=1193634"' line to my config file. (I will need to continue tweaking this a few times more to get the drift really low it seems.) When I looked around the sources I noted that all references to TIMER_FREQ were preceded by an #ifndef, exept for in /sys/i386/isa/sysconf.h. *** syscons.h.org Thu Sep 14 10:44:10 1995 --- syscons.h Mon Sep 18 21:13:45 1995 *************** *** 82,88 **** --- 82,90 ---- #define ROW 25 #define BELL_DURATION 5 #define BELL_PITCH 800 + #ifndef TIMER_FREQ #define TIMER_FREQ 1193182 /* should be in isa.h */ + #endif #define CONSOLE_BUFSIZE 1024 #define PCBURST 128 #define FONT_8 0x001 _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 15:13:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA05065 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:13:18 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA05049 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:13:10 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA27285 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 00:12:54 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA04326 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 00:12:54 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA02768 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:21:49 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509182021.WAA02768@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:21:49 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509181712.NAA15302@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Sep 18, 95 01:12:17 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 674 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > Latin1. If page 0 is in fact Unicode, which already has > encodings for every written language on Earth, then what would ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > 10646 need any other pages for? > > The rest of the languages of course. :-) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > If page 0 (sic) is Unicode, which has *all* the languages, then what would > the "rest of the languages" be? You only need strict logical conclusions to find this: "Ex-terrestric languages, of course." :--) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 16:20:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA08764 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:20:53 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08757 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:20:48 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA18934; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:19:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA03724; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:21:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199509182321.QAA03724@corbin.Root.COM> To: Terry Lambert cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 95 14:11:06 PDT." <199509182111.OAA08650@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:21:46 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Is this just a typo? Shouldn't it be a FREE() macro like below? ... >The code should still be cleaned up, however. > >I prefer the macroized version to allow later instrumentation. I prefer the non macroized version. The instrumentation of malloc/free belongs in malloc() & free(). Macros are ugly and usually evil. They unnecessarily obscure the code. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 16:28:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA09060 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:28:01 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA09051 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:27:59 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA19043; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:26:36 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA03738; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:28:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199509182328.QAA03738@corbin.Root.COM> To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@freefall.freebsd.org (Julian Elischer), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 95 13:57:49 PDT." <199509182057.NAA08583@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:28:56 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The patches happen to modify vfs_syscalls.c for single entry/exit for all >functions at the same time, something that was required for buffer >allocation bookkeeping and wants to be done for kernel multithreading and >SMP kernel reentrancy in any case. There are some cases where a single entry point is useful, but I personally hate the spaghetti of goto's that I've seen with your code. It goes a long way toward obscuring the code flow and makes it difficult to read. It's especially bad when you have 3 or more exit labels. I fail to see the requirement for any of this in an SMP kernel, and the need for this to have "buffer allocation bookeeping" is dubious. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 18:50:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA21822 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:50:07 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA21809 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:50:02 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA19235; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:48:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA03851; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:51:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199509190151.SAA03851@corbin.Root.COM> To: Andreas Klemm cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD-stable of today: typo in /sys/sys/queue.h line 150: In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 95 20:22:22 +0200." <199509181822.UAA02518@knobel.gun.de> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:51:06 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hi ! > >After supping src-sys-stable on Mon Sep 18 20:22:13 MET DST 1995: > >Found a wrong control character in /sys/sys/queue.h > >the #define in line 145 > >#define TAILQ_INSERT_TAIL(head, elm, field) { > ^ >Instead of 'h' there was a control character. This appears to be a problem local to your own machine. The file on freefall is correct. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 19:10:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA23502 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:10:21 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA23472 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:10:12 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA09038 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:08:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509190208.TAA09038@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:08:02 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 676 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk About a week ago, someone was complaining that when an attribute bit was set and you cleared the screen, that the whole screen went to that attribute. Well, the problem is that the attribute state implys a fg/bg color state change; in reality, the fg/bg color state should be kept seperate from the attribute state, even if it implies a color state change. That is, the clear sreen/area/character operations on a console should take the color into account as if the attributes were at state 0 instead of using the altered color table. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 19:21:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA24530 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:21:23 -0700 Received: from wasabi.ecsd.com (ecsd.com [192.215.97.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24510 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:21:16 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by wasabi.ecsd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA02924; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:18:56 GMT Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:18:56 GMT From: "Eric C. S. Dynamic" Message-Id: <199509181918.TAA02924@wasabi.ecsd.com> To: jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Well hey, bwah Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Sure would like to use the powered by FreeBSD logo, so where in tarnation is it? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 19:58:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA27887 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:58:32 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA27880 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:58:25 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA09115; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:54:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509190254.TAA09115@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: davidg@root.com Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:54:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509182321.QAA03724@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Sep 18, 95 04:21:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 649 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Is this just a typo? Shouldn't it be a FREE() macro like below? > ... > >The code should still be cleaned up, however. > > > >I prefer the macroized version to allow later instrumentation. > > I prefer the non macroized version. The instrumentation of malloc/free > belongs in malloc() & free(). Macros are ugly and usually evil. They > unnecessarily obscure the code. ??? What if I only want to instrument malloc() and free() in one source file? What if I want to share code with NetBSD and BSDI? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 20:09:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA28594 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:09:38 -0700 Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28587 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:09:32 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA08148; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:09:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:09:31 -0400 Resent-From: "matthew c. mead" Resent-Message-Id: <199509190309.XAA08148@Glock.COM> Message-Id: <199509190309.XAA08148@Glock.COM> Resent-To: hackers@freebsd.org From: mmead@Glock.COM (matthew c. mead) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: proxy arp and gatewaying Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 15:53:15 EDT Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone successfully setup proxy arp and gatewaying on a 2.0.5 or later box? What I want to do is have two interfaces on one of my FreeBSD boxes, where it forwards packets from one interface to another, if the packet is destined for a hardware address on the wire corresponding to the other interface. I'd have only a handful of hosts at the end of the segment, and the rest of the internet on the other side. Actually, at this moment, there would be two hosts at the end, and a diagram follows: ice.Glock.COM neon.Glock.COM goof.com[ed1 of gatewaying proxy arp box] | | | | \-----------------------------/ kernel code copying packets | Glock.COM[ed0 of gatewaying proxy arp box] | | | concentrator in building Ok, hope that diagram makes sense. What I want to also achieve, is the following. I'd like to have ice and neon setup so that they think their default gateway is goof.com. From what I understand, the GATEWAY kernel option will only copy the traffic across interfaces if it needs to go across. Is this correct? If so, it seems to me that I will need to have the following proxy arps so that the concentrator port sees one hardware address on my port: a published arp on ed0 of the gatewaying proxy arp box for ice, neon, and goof.com that lists Glock.COM (ed0 of the gatewaying proxy arp box)'s hardware address for each ip; a published arp on ed1 of the gatewaying proxy arp box for all ip addresses except ice, neon, and goof.com, that lists goof.com (ed1 of the gatewaying proxy arp box)'s hardware address for each ip. What I finally wonder is whether or not this is possible, if I'm making wrong assumptions about how the GATEWAY code works, and if I'm assuming where I shouldn't that you can specify an interface for a published arp. Anyone have any ideas to help me out? Thanks in advance! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM | Network Administration and Software Development http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ | Consulting: BizNet Technologies -> mmead@bnt.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 20:14:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA28855 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:14:24 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28845 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:14:18 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id XAA14998; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:17:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:17:23 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509190317.XAA14998@healer.com> To: jkh@freebsd.org, root@ecsd.com Subject: Re: Well hey, bwah Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Sure would like to use the powered by FreeBSD logo, so where in > tarnation is it? Wherever else it may be, anyone can get a copy from anon ftp at: ftp.healer.com:/web/power.gif -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 20:29:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA29276 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:29:19 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29271 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:29:16 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA09176; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:26:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509190326.UAA09176@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: davidg@root.com Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:26:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509182328.QAA03738@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Sep 18, 95 04:28:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5359 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The patches happen to modify vfs_syscalls.c for single entry/exit for all > >functions at the same time, something that was required for buffer > >allocation bookkeeping and wants to be done for kernel multithreading and > >SMP kernel reentrancy in any case. > > There are some cases where a single entry point is useful, but I personally > hate the spaghetti of goto's that I've seen with your code. That would be three of them, max, in a single function, right? According to a Bell Labs study, human beings are capable of keeping 5 to 9 items in short term memory simultaneously. That would be why phone numbers are 7 digits. I'm not even taxing the low end of the study participants. On the other hand, if I want block profiling without having to rewrite the compiler, then I have to add a block start on function entry and one on every function exit. If there is one function exit, then I have to add one. This "anti-goto-political-correctness-bullshit" has to go. Anyone who thinks a for loop generates prettier assembly than an label/if/goto had better read more compiler output. At least with a goto instead of a break, I have an explicitly defined location where my instruction pointer will end up. This beats trying to find where a break exits a loop all to hell. > It goes a long way toward obscuring the code flow and makes it difficult > to read. I supposed changing code that looks like: if( error = func()) { [cleanup] return( error); } Into: error = func(); if( error) { [cleanup] return( error); } Has a function other than to make gcc quit whining about assignments in if statements (and to make the FreeBSD vs. 4.4BSD diffs larger)? It doesn't seem to make it easier to read. > It's especially bad when you have 3 or more exit labels. I would say 3 was the max. Not 2, like you imply. In some cases, I'd allow 4 if I were playing "kernel Emily Post". 3 is the bare minimum for two allocations for things like the rename() system call. You have erros to recover from at 0, 1, and 2 outstanding allocations. A goto is a tool for handling an exceptional conditions. And that's where goto's are use in my code. The alternative is negative comparison code blocks, ie: if( !(error = foo()) { [real code] } else { [error code] } Or the use of stack state variables to determine state unwind at function exit. > I fail to see the requirement for any of this in an SMP kernel, Code reentrancy and lock state maintenance. It's important to block reentrancy to critical sections, like free-list/hash/cache management, where a single global dataum is being manipulated. The system clock is actually one such datum that *isn't* guarded in the current code. Single entry/exit buys you the ability to ensure lock state, for instance, in UFS. I can know what the state is going into and coming out of a function. Actually, namei() is terminally screwed in this regard because it has so much crap packed into a single function pair that it uses to avoid recursion (at the same time limiting symbolic link expansion to a total of 1024 characters for non-terminal path components, making them less transparent). It then calls VOP_LOOKUP(), which further obfuscates the code path beyond all recognition by doing nine or ten things itself based on the arguments. Now I don't have any problem getting my brain around hairy code like that, but you have to admit that it's a hell of a lot more obfuscated than a routine that has three or less gotos in it. You have to admit also that a couple of 3/6 cycle jumps, assuming a poor optimizer doesn't reorder the code and return multiple times anyway, is not a big performance penalty compared to the other absolute crap that is going on in other code. The biggest obfuscation I have perpetrated is the SYSINIT() divorce that arose because no one has ever written a smart linker for Intel boxes, and the trade it makes is well worth the exchange. Properly managed, one does not have to recompile a kernel in order to option things in and out of it -- only to relink it. And that can be done at runtime, with a little more effort, avoid the need to recompile a kernel at all. > and the need for this to have "buffer allocation bookeeping" is dubious. The "buffer allocation bookeeping" is the knowledge in the routine that a buffer has or has not been allocated by way of a call to namei(). It's a hell of a lot better to logically seperate the FS from path parsing issues, like whether or not the guy who called me called namei() with certain flags, so I can know if I have to free his preallocated buffers because he's too damn lazy to do it himself. It's not like it's even saving a function call, all it's doing is obfuscating the damn file system interface to the point that nullfs and unionfs and portalfs operate incorrectly, and NFS has all sorts of duplicate crap code that belongs in namei() pulled in because it has to play the buffer game too. Now if I'm going to potentially free something, doesn't it behoove me to make sure I've actually allocated it -- to do "buffer allocation bookkeeping" -- before just returning from the middle of a function or unconditionally freeing it? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 20:34:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA29509 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:34:03 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29499 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:33:43 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id XAA15068; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:36:46 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:36:46 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509190336.XAA15068@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, mmead@Glock.COM Subject: Re: proxy arp and gatewaying Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Matthew C. Mead asks: > Has anyone successfully setup proxy arp and gatewaying on a > 2.0.5 or later box? What I want to do is have two interfaces on one of my > FreeBSD boxes, where it forwards packets from one interface to another, if > ...[snip diagram]... > > Ok, hope that diagram makes sense. What I want to also achieve, is > the following. I'd like to have ice and neon setup so that they think > their default gateway is goof.com. From what I understand, the GATEWAY > kernel option will only copy the traffic across interfaces if it needs to We have a box running as a bridge/filter between our the network our router is on (our feed also serves another company, which has its own bridge) and our internal LAN. Thus: LAN <--- ether ---> {ed1 - FreeBSD - ed0} <--- ether ---> hub/router Just have the outside world set the BSD box (ed0) as the route inward for the internal LAN, and have LAN set the BSD box (ed1) as its default gateway. Hope that answers the question. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 20:45:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA00108 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:45:12 -0700 Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA29998 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:45:07 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA08326; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:44:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:44:49 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199509190344.XAA08326@Glock.COM> To: Coranth Gryphon Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: proxy arp and gatewaying In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, September 18, 1995 23:36:46 -0400 References: <199509190336.XAA15068@healer.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, September 18, 1995 at 23:36:46 (-0400), Coranth Gryphon wrote: > Matthew C. Mead asks: > > Has anyone successfully setup proxy arp and gatewaying on a > > 2.0.5 or later box? What I want to do is have two interfaces on one of my > > FreeBSD boxes, where it forwards packets from one interface to another, if > ...[snip diagram]... > > Ok, hope that diagram makes sense. What I want to also achieve, is > > the following. I'd like to have ice and neon setup so that they think > > their default gateway is goof.com. From what I understand, the GATEWAY > > kernel option will only copy the traffic across interfaces if it needs to > We have a box running as a bridge/filter between our the network our router > is on (our feed also serves another company, which has its own bridge) and > our internal LAN. Thus: > > LAN <--- ether ---> {ed1 - FreeBSD - ed0} <--- ether ---> hub/router > Just have the outside world set the BSD box (ed0) as the route inward for the > internal LAN, and have LAN set the BSD box (ed1) as its default gateway. No can do. :-( Unfortunately, both interfaces for the freebsd gateway are on the same subnet, and I cannot advertise myself as a router to another one, considering I don't have one. Basically proxy arp is the only option other than purchasing a repeater and hooking it up to the port in the wall, but then multiple hardware addresses will get through... > Hope that answers the question. Nope, but thanks for trying... :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM | Network Administration and Software Development http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ | Consulting: BizNet Technologies -> mmead@bnt.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 21:15:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA01230 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:15:30 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA01225 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:15:23 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA05106 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:04:42 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 19 Sep 95 08:04:41 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA00288; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:02:20 +0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org, Terry Lambert References: <199509190208.TAA09038@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199509190208.TAA09038@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert at Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:08:02 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:02:20 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED Lines: 26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1128 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199509190208.TAA09038@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: >About a week ago, someone was complaining that when an attribute bit >was set and you cleared the screen, that the whole screen went to >that attribute. >Well, the problem is that the attribute state implys a fg/bg color >state change; in reality, the fg/bg color state should be kept seperate >from the attribute state, even if it implies a color state change. >That is, the clear sreen/area/character operations on a console should >take the color into account as if the attributes were at state 0 instead >of using the altered color table. I completely disagree: 1) It is longstanding SYSV console tradition clear all with attribute. 2) ncurses package takes advantage of this feature when filling screen with color instead of putting spaces. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 21:31:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA01571 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:31:12 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA01561 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:31:08 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA24091; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:33:01 -0600 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:33:01 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509190433.WAA24091@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) In-Reply-To: <199509190326.UAA09176@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509182328.QAA03738@corbin.Root.COM> <199509190326.UAA09176@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: [ Terry's coding style ] > According to a Bell Labs study, human beings are capable of keeping 5 to > 9 items in short term memory simultaneously. That would be why phone > numbers are 7 digits. > > I'm not even taxing the low end of the study participants. What this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. > On the other hand, if I want block profiling without having to rewrite > the compiler, then I have to add a block start on function entry and > one on every function exit. If there is one function exit, then I > have to add one. Again, what this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. > This "anti-goto-political-correctness-bullshit" has to go. Anyone who > thinks a for loop generates prettier assembly than an label/if/goto > had better read more compiler output. Huh? I am in *complete* agreement with David here. I have looked at *thousands* if not *millions* of lines of code in my years in programming. Although there are times when gotos are necessary AND they improve readability, they are the exception rather than the rule. When I see two gotos in a single function it is my opinion that the author has not spent the time to write the code in a readable manner. Now, there may be a completely valid reason for it, but it will take a lot for me to believe that. :) A rule enforced in all software houses I've worked in. "Programmers who use gotos will be publically ridiculed" > At least with a goto instead of a break, I have an explicitly defined > location where my instruction pointer will end up. This beats trying > to find where a break exits a loop all to hell. > > > It goes a long way toward obscuring the code flow and makes it difficult > > to read. > > I supposed changing code that looks like: > > if( error = func()) { > [cleanup] > return( error); > } > > Into: > > error = func(); > if( error) { > [cleanup] > return( error); > } > > Has a function other than to make gcc quit whining about assignments > in if statements (and to make the FreeBSD vs. 4.4BSD diffs larger)? That's irrelevant since CSRG is no longer, and 4.4Lite2 is the *last* release of BSD code from them. Who'd have thought Lite2 would even be released? > It doesn't seem to make it easier to read. Nor does it make it any harder to read. However, I prefer the latter vs. the former simply because any compiler worth it's weight in salt will cause the exact same code to be emitted for both. I also find I am more likely to check the error status more thoroughly in the second case since it's not so complicated, AND I have the error state saved so I can do multiple checks w/out getting overly complicated. > A goto is a tool for handling an exceptional conditions. And that's > where goto's are use in my code. > > The alternative is negative comparison code blocks, ie: > > if( !(error = foo()) { > [real code] > } else { > [error code] > } I prefer this to using gotos simply because my mind is tuned for parentheses, not goto statements. It's a matter of what you are used to seeing. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 22:35:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA07044 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:35:48 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07032 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:35:45 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA10446 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:35:41 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA07193 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:35:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA04988 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:08:17 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509190508.HAA04988@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:08:17 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Didier Derny" at Sep 18, 95 11:37:44 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 688 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Didier Derny wrote: > > I mean that we generally have to pay an extra price for SCSI devices > on PC. You can by an IDE controller for 20$ but an adaptec controller > is about 120$. You can buy an IDE _adapter_ for $20 (basically 2 74F245's plus a PAL -- $18.95 of the price are for the FDC on the same board :), but an (E)IDE _controller_ with roughly the same functionality like a SCSI controller is almost in the same price range. You can compare a dumb IDE adapter at best with something like an ST-01 (and hey, they're also cheap!). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 22:35:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA07086 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:35:56 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07056 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:35:50 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA10458; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:35:46 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA07199; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:35:45 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA05163; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:32:03 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509190532.HAA05163@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: xntpd (or kernel) timekeeping problem? To: mal@aristotle.algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:32:03 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9509182209.AA19117@sophocles.> from "Mats Lofkvist" at Sep 19, 95 00:09:30 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 737 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mats Lofkvist wrote: > > When I looked around the sources I noted that all references to TIMER_FREQ > were preceded by an #ifndef, exept for in /sys/i386/isa/sysconf.h. > > *** syscons.h.org Thu Sep 14 10:44:10 1995 > --- syscons.h Mon Sep 18 21:13:45 1995 > *************** > *** 82,88 **** > --- 82,90 ---- > #define ROW 25 > #define BELL_DURATION 5 > #define BELL_PITCH 800 > + #ifndef TIMER_FREQ > #define TIMER_FREQ 1193182 /* should be in isa.h */ > + #endif TIMER_FREQ should once and forever be banned from all source files and moved out into a header file. (isa.h?) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 22:37:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA07237 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:37:45 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07216 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:37:38 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA10454; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:35:44 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA07198; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:35:44 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA05087; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:27:48 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509190527.HAA05087@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD-stable of today: typo in /sys/sys/queue.h line 150: To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:27:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199509190151.SAA03851@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Sep 18, 95 06:51:06 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 443 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > > >#define TAILQ_INSERT_TAIL(head, elm, field) { > > ^ > >Instead of 'h' there was a control character. > > This appears to be a problem local to your own machine. The file on > freefall is correct. My copy of the CVS file is also correct. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 22:55:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA09293 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:55:40 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09286 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:55:38 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id WAA12566 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:55:32 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA27383; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:48:36 +1000 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:48:36 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509190548.PAA27383@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de, mal@aristotle.algonet.se Subject: Re: xntpd (or kernel) timekeeping problem? Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> When I looked around the sources I noted that all references to TIMER_FREQ >> were preceded by an #ifndef, exept for in /sys/i386/isa/sysconf.h. It's only used for the beeper from there, so it wouldn't matter if your global redefine of TIMER_FREQ was missed there. >TIMER_FREQ should once and forever be banned from all source files and >moved out into a header file. (isa.h?) isa/timerreg.h. All except the first 4 defines in timmerreg.h should actually be in ic/i8253.h. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 23:01:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA09556 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:01:55 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09550 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:01:51 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA19008; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:45:59 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199509190615.PAA19008@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: your mail To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:45:58 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199509181302.JAA08300@spooky.rwwa.com> from "Robert Withrow" at Sep 18, 95 09:02:29 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 815 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robert Withrow stands accused of saying: > > Bruce Evans said: > > > Calibration is hard to do since there is no generally available > > accurate clock. > > GPS? Accurate *and* stable. And relatively expensive. (We use the Rockwell MicroTracker LP in some of our units; it's a neat widget, but vexing to talk to. About AUS$600) > Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 23:06:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA09735 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:06:00 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09728 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:05:57 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA19553; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:04:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA03876; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:07:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199509190607.XAA03876@corbin.Root.COM> To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 95 19:54:56 PDT." <199509190254.TAA09115@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:07:03 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Is this just a typo? Shouldn't it be a FREE() macro like below? >> ... >> >The code should still be cleaned up, however. >> > >> >I prefer the macroized version to allow later instrumentation. >> >> I prefer the non macroized version. The instrumentation of malloc/free >> belongs in malloc() & free(). Macros are ugly and usually evil. They >> unnecessarily obscure the code. > >??? > >What if I only want to instrument malloc() and free() in one source file? That's a silly argument. The namespace will already be messed up with the global macros - I'd hardly call that an "improvement". >What if I want to share code with NetBSD and BSDI? Then you've got far worse problems than a few macros. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 23:16:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA10048 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:16:51 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10042 ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:16:49 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA03449; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:15:59 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509190615.XAA03449@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: davidg@root.com, terry@lambert.org, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190326.UAA09176@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 18, 95 08:26:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 675 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > hate the spaghetti of goto's that I've seen with your code. ok ok ok.. can we quit on the character assasination here? ok, so we know some people don't like Terry's style.. ok, so what.. if he produces a useful piece of code we can still use it.. I've seen bits of core in other people's code I don't like, and people have taken such a dislike to my code that they've totally reformatted it.. ok, now can we all take a deep breath and stop quibbling? if terry writes code, and it works, we can use it. anyone is permited to rewrite it if they want.. terry might get annoyed, but it's permitted.. it's not as if we are actually short of things to do or anything.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 23:35:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA11926 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:35:01 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11913 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:34:59 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA19587; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:33:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA03898; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:36:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199509190636.XAA03898@corbin.Root.COM> To: Julian Elischer cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Sep 95 23:15:58 PDT." <199509190615.XAA03449@ref.tfs.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:36:03 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > hate the spaghetti of goto's that I've seen with your code. > >ok ok ok.. >can we quit on the character assasination here? > >ok, so we know some people don't like Terry's style.. >ok, so what.. >if he produces a useful piece of code we can still use it.. >I've seen bits of core in other people's code I don't like, and people >have taken such a dislike to my code that they've totally reformatted it.. >ok, > >now can we all take a deep breath and stop quibbling? > >if terry writes code, and it works, we can use it. >anyone is permited to rewrite it if they want.. terry might get annoyed, but >it's permitted.. There are a few formatting issues which I probably will fix. The problem I'm having is basically that we have a specific style that we are trying to adhere to (surely everone can understand the readability advantages of a single coding style - KNF), and Terry wants to add a few hundred gotos while he rewrites everything. Yuck. I really wish that people would spend more time on fixing real problems with the source code and not just changing it to fit their own non-KNF style. It's only going to result in a lot more work later when someone has to go back and "fix" all of it. >it's not as if we are actually short of things to do or anything.. How true. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Sep 18 23:45:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA13048 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:45:09 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA13043 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:45:08 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA03505; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:44:52 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509190644.XAA03505@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190636.XAA03898@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Sep 18, 95 11:36:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 613 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I really wish that people would spend more time on fixing real problems > with the source code and not just changing it to fit their own non-KNF style. > It's only going to result in a lot more work later when someone has to go > back and "fix" all of it. which would you rather.. have a working piece of code that needs to be reformatted, or to have to write it from scratch.. at least if it already works, then you can morph it while hopefully not breaking it. If you want to rewrite it from scratch you get a lot more debugging time thrown in for free :) ok. I hope there are no replies to this.. eh? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 00:34:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA15578 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 00:34:34 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA15568 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 00:34:25 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA30694; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:30:19 +1000 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:30:19 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509190730.RAA30694@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: suspect code in 'unlink' syscall. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> looking at 'unlink (2)' >> I see, >> if (vp->v_type != VDIR || >> (error = suser(p->p_ucred, &p->p_acflag)) == 0) { >Invert the test. I made this mod some time ago: > if( ( error = suser(p->p_ucred, &p->p_acflag)) == 0 || > vp->v_type != VDIR) { >This way, the error code will be set to EPERM if you are not root and the >followon code will not be executed. This way, the error code is bogusly set for non-root, so that only root can unlink anything. Also, root is bogusly recorded as having used the superuser privilege to unlink non-directories. Also, the formatting is messed up. You may have added some gotos to avoid the first bug. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 01:32:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA17635 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:32:03 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (root@hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA17626 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:31:52 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA09974 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:31:37 +0300 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id LAA20037; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:31:42 +0300 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:31:42 +0300 Message-Id: <199509190831.LAA20037@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Bakul Shah Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: Bakul Shah's message of 18 Sep 1995 20:38:32 +0300 Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I too think 16 bit is good enough. 10646 is a 32 bit standard but given that other than Unicode no other pages are populated and that Unicode supports all living and many (most?) dead languages and that except for scholars of dead languages (a tiny tiny percentage of people) no one else will benefit *even if* pages beyond Unicode are ever used, allowing for such extension now is IMHO a waste of space. rune_t can be made 16 bit, too. Yes, and I also think that 640kbytes of memory is certainly enough for anything you would want to do with your computer. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 01:39:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA18071 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:39:27 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18063 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:39:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA01807; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:38:42 -0700 To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: Bakul Shah , freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:31:42 +0300." <199509190831.LAA20037@shadows.cs.hut.fi> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:38:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1804.811499922@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, and I also think that 640kbytes of memory is certainly enough for > anything you would want to do with your computer. Isn't that a famous Bill Gates line? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 04:33:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA27218 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 04:33:54 -0700 Received: from px.f1.ru (root@px.f1.ru [194.87.86.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA27199 ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 04:33:40 -0700 Received: (from am@localhost) by px.f1.ru (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA12797; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:34:44 +0400 Message-Id: <199509191134.PAA12797@px.f1.ru> Subject: Re: "Powered By FreeBSD" logo at the bottom of http://www.freebsd.org To: jkh@Freebsd.org Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:34:42 +0400 (MSD) From: "Andrew Maltsev" Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, announce@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <677.811309882@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 16, 95 08:51:22 pm Organization: F1 communications Reply-To: am@f1.ru X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 812 Sender: owner-hackers@Freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Many people have asked about the "Powered by FreeBSD" logo and whether > or not they can use it in their own pages. The answer is an > enthusiastic "Yes! By all means!" Why not to recommend a sample line like this? Powered by FreeBSD And the size of original powerlogo.gif is too big for my slow link. So, after some image processing I produced two GIF89 pictures: http://www.f1.ru/icons/powerlogo.gif 4704 bytes of size, with absolutely equal colors to original picture - I just removed dups. http://www.f1.ru/icons/powerlogo_m.gif 2900 bytes of size, with reduced colors (but visually looks good I hope) -- am From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 07:11:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA05290 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:11:35 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA05280 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:11:31 -0700 Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14742(2)>; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:10:47 PDT Received: by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15567; Tue, 19 Sep 95 10:10:40 EDT Message-Id: <9509191410.AA15567@gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Subject: IFS and win95 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:10:38 PDT From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Win95 seems to have support for user installable file systems... I don't have any good technical references on this yet, but is anyone writing drivers for ext2 and ffs filesystems in win95? Is there any reason why this can't work? Can anyone point me a good references? marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom (http://www.lpf.org) Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic Arthur C. Clarke, The Lost Worlds of 2001 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 07:18:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA06152 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:18:01 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA06128 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:17:56 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA16020 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:50:20 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA27985; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:27:13 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:27:13 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509191327.IAA27985@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <6760.811430864@critter.tfs.com> References: <199509181236.WAA23935@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <6760.811430864@critter.tfs.com>, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> >I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers >> >accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. >> I don't want wchar_t's in the kernel. >I also fail to see the need for this, and even if I did see the need, I >still think we shouldn't have them in the kernel... Does namei() handle UTF filenames correctly? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 07:18:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA06189 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:18:10 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA06167 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:18:05 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA16023 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:50:27 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA28290; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:31:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:31:59 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509191331.IAA28290@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509182019.NAA08435@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <6760.811430864@critter.tfs.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199509182019.NAA08435@phaeton.artisoft.com>, Terry Lambert wrote: >If your storage encoding, like Plan9, is UTF-8, then the answer is you >can allow them no more than 51 characters for file names, unless you >provide a prohibitively expensive (in terms of interactive response >time) "check" callback for character entry. Why would it be prohibitively expensive? UTF is a simple scheme. I'm sure I could implement a version of UTF file name checking for an entry dialog that was fast enough nobody would notice it in TK, even on a 386, and TCL is no number cruncher. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 07:18:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA06301 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:18:45 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA06281 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:18:39 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA16124 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:03:10 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA29446; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:54:02 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:54:02 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509191354.IAA29446@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509182004.NAA08387@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509181147.HAA15090@exalt.x.org> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I personally have a number of problems with the encoding ordering for >ligatured languages, like Tamil, Devengari, Hebrew, Arabic, etc., since >there is an implied inability to use fixed cell rendering technologies, >like X. Why should the storage encoding and the display encoding and the internal encoding be the same? You can have three encodings if you want. The overhead is minimal, it's not like we're mandating display postscript. >Rendering the file length meaningless and requiring the use of record >oriented file systems with variant length records to handle data from >fix length input fields from user interaction screens. And this claim is just weird. This is an application issue... file systems have nothing to do with it. If the only things you feed into the kernel are multibyte character strings, you don't need any of this. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 09:01:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA13318 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:01:46 -0700 Received: from netcom15.netcom.com (bakul@netcom15.netcom.com [192.100.81.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA13313 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:01:44 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom15.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id IAA09962; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 08:58:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199509191558.IAA09962@netcom15.netcom.com> To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Sep 95 11:31:42 +0300." <199509190831.LAA20037@shadows.cs.hut.fi> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 95 08:58:24 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, and I also think that 640kbytes of memory is certainly enough for > anything you would want to do with your computer. Cute but it misses the point. If N bytes are enough, using 2N bytes for a benefit that one won't see for ages, if ever, is a waste for any value of N. Especially when there is an immediate cost of doing so [allocating twice as much memory means you will take twice as many page faults etc. etc.]. Make a few decisions like this and you'll have slow moving monster programs for which 640Mbytes won't be enough. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 10:22:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA18497 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:22:55 -0700 Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (root@uuneo.neosoft.com [206.109.1.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA18488 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:22:53 -0700 Received: from ris1.UUCP (ficc@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with UUCP id MAA06994 for freebsd.org!hackers; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:10:14 -0500 Received: by ris1.nmti.com (smail2.5) id AA09765; 19 Sep 95 11:11:03 CDT (Tue) Received: by sonic.nmti.com; id AA23751; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:37:47 -0500 From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <9509191637.AA23751@sonic.nmti.com.nmti.com> Subject: FDISK-1, PETER-0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:37:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 374 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK, I yeild. I'm not getting anywhere... How do I build a custom install floppy? I'm trying to install 2.0.5 on a system with an Adaptec 1542CP, so I need to build a kernel with the new Adaptec driver in it... how do I go about this? Or is there anyone willing to do it for me? I have the patches. I have built a working kernel. I just can't get all the bits lined up... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 10:48:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA19707 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:48:54 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA19702 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:48:52 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA10194; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:45:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509191745.KAA10194@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:45:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Sep 19, 95 08:02:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 947 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >That is, the clear sreen/area/character operations on a console should > >take the color into account as if the attributes were at state 0 instead > >of using the altered color table. > > I completely disagree: > 1) It is longstanding SYSV console tradition clear all with attribute. The SCO Color console, which I wrote the emulation for in the commercial comm software products TERM and TinyTERM, does not do this. The curses package (apparently) doesn't expect this. I can not run elm on a SunOS, Solaris, or Linux box without getting a reverse screen. > 2) ncurses package takes advantage of this feature when > filling screen with color instead of putting spaces. I didn't say a color set would not cause this to happen. Colors and attributes which map to colors should be treated seperately. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 11:30:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA21618 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:30:55 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA21601 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:30:45 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA16478 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:26:02 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 19 Sep 95 22:26:01 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01067; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:20:38 +0400 To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org References: <199509191745.KAA10194@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199509191745.KAA10194@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert at Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:45:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:20:38 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED Lines: 38 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1551 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199509191745.KAA10194@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: >> >That is, the clear sreen/area/character operations on a console should >> >take the color into account as if the attributes were at state 0 instead >> >of using the altered color table. >> >> I completely disagree: >> 1) It is longstanding SYSV console tradition clear all with attribute. >The SCO Color console, which I wrote the emulation for in the commercial >comm software products TERM and TinyTERM, does not do this. Check original Xenix or SCO console and you see it by yourself. >The curses package (apparently) doesn't expect this. I can not run elm >on a SunOS, Solaris, or Linux box without getting a reverse screen. >> 2) ncurses package takes advantage of this feature when >> filling screen with color instead of putting spaces. >I didn't say a color set would not cause this to happen. >Colors and attributes which map to colors should be treated seperately. Colors are attributes for true SCO console. F.e. inverse attribute emulates via colors which can have any value. Bold attribute emulates via colors too. BTW: It is special termcap capability for this case it names: "ut" it is special terminfo capability for this case, it names: "bce" -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 11:57:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA23539 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:57:40 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA23534 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:57:38 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10331; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:54:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509191854.LAA10331@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: davidg@root.com Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:54:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190607.XAA03876@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Sep 18, 95 11:07:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 431 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >What if I only want to instrument malloc() and free() in one source file? > > That's a silly argument. The namespace will already be messed up with the > global macros - I'd hardly call that an "improvement". #undef FREE #define FREE(x,y) myfree(x,y) ... #undef free <--- Bzzzzzzt Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 12:02:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24254 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:02:54 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24243 ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:02:48 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10348; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:56:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509191856.LAA10348@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:56:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, davidg@root.com, julian@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190615.XAA03449@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 18, 95 11:15:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 487 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ok, so we know some people don't like Terry's style.. > ok, so what.. > if he produces a useful piece of code we can still use it.. > I've seen bits of core in other people's code I don't like, and people > have taken such a dislike to my code that they've totally reformatted it.. > ok, This is why 4.4BSD-Lite includes a GNU indent template. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 12:03:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24377 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:03:42 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24368 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:03:38 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA25538; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:05:33 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:05:33 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509191905.NAA25538@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) In-Reply-To: <199509191852.LAA10314@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509190433.WAA24091@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199509191852.LAA10314@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > 9 items in short term memory simultaneously. That would be why phone > > > numbers are 7 digits. > > > > > > I'm not even taxing the low end of the study participants. > > > > What this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. > > It shows that David's complaint about 3 goto's is religious, and not as > he said a result of battling obfuscation. Huh, you lost me here. > > > On the other hand, if I want block profiling without having to rewrite > > > the compiler, then I have to add a block start on function entry and > > > one on every function exit. If there is one function exit, then I > > > have to add one. > > > > Again, what this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. > > Getting to the one function exit the way the BSD code is currently > written requires a goto. If the code *needs* to be written that way, then I can see your point, but I don't see that as part of KNF. The only thing even mentioning exits implies that you can have multiple exits in any function. I quote: /* * Exits should be 0 on success, and 1 on failure. Don't denote * all the possible exit points, using the integers 1 through 300. */ exit(0); /* Avoid obvious comments such as "Exit 0 on success." */ > > A rule enforced in all software houses I've worked in. "Programmers who > > use gotos will be publically ridiculed" > > I look forward to your and David's patches to the following functions, > and to the functions not in these two subdirectories that have the same > "goto infestation problem": AFAIK, we are discussing new code re-writes, not changing already existing code. Re-writing all of the existing code is a worthy task, but there are much worthier tasks that need to be done. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 12:03:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24410 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:03:54 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24400 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:03:49 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10358; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:58:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509191858.LAA10358@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? To: davidg@root.com Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:58:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190636.XAA03898@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Sep 18, 95 11:36:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1057 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There are a few formatting issues which I probably will fix. The problem > I'm having is basically that we have a specific style that we are trying to > adhere to (surely everone can understand the readability advantages of a > single coding style - KNF), and Terry wants to add a few hundred gotos while > he rewrites everything. Yuck. > I really wish that people would spend more time on fixing real problems > with the source code and not just changing it to fit their own non-KNF style. > It's only going to result in a lot more work later when someone has to go > back and "fix" all of it. KNF is why we have GNU Indent. If you don't like goto's, fine, you keep the multiple deallocations and lock/unlock's code synchronized after removing them. The goto's aren't an issue of KNF or not KNF. That's more where I put my parenthesis. GNU Indent should be part of CVS checking if you're that religious. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 12:05:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24630 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:05:38 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24602 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:05:27 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA10393; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:02:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509191902.MAA10393@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:02:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509191327.IAA27985@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Sep 19, 95 08:27:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 693 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > In article <6760.811430864@critter.tfs.com>, > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> >I'd like to add a format specifier '%S' to the list of format specifiers > >> >accepted by printf. Well, kernel printf, anyway. > >> I don't want wchar_t's in the kernel. > >I also fail to see the need for this, and even if I did see the need, I > >still think we shouldn't have them in the kernel... > > Does namei() handle UTF filenames correctly? If you consider reducing the MAXPATHNAME by one for every expansion, then yes, I suppose it does. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 12:07:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24795 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:07:15 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24782 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:07:11 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA10411; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:04:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509191904.MAA10411@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:04:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509191331.IAA28290@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Sep 19, 95 08:31:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1044 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > In article <199509182019.NAA08435@phaeton.artisoft.com>, > Terry Lambert wrote: > >If your storage encoding, like Plan9, is UTF-8, then the answer is you > >can allow them no more than 51 characters for file names, unless you > >provide a prohibitively expensive (in terms of interactive response > >time) "check" callback for character entry. > > Why would it be prohibitively expensive? UTF is a simple scheme. I'm sure > I could implement a version of UTF file name checking for an entry dialog > that was fast enough nobody would notice it in TK, even on a 386, and TCL > is no number cruncher. Because you have to redo the string before you redraw or allow the character entry in the "fixed length field" and interactive response will suffer because of that. I suppose you could rewrite all the widgets to better hook the callbacks if you were inclined to do that. Bletch. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 12:11:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA25142 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:11:57 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA25118 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:11:49 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10314; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:52:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509191852.LAA10314@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:52:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190433.WAA24091@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 18, 95 10:33:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3520 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > According to a Bell Labs study, human beings are capable of keeping 5 to > > 9 items in short term memory simultaneously. That would be why phone > > numbers are 7 digits. > > > > I'm not even taxing the low end of the study participants. > > What this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. It shows that David's complaint about 3 goto's is religious, and not as he said a result of battling obfuscation. > > On the other hand, if I want block profiling without having to rewrite > > the compiler, then I have to add a block start on function entry and > > one on every function exit. If there is one function exit, then I > > have to add one. > > Again, what this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. Getting to the one function exit the way the BSD code is currently written requires a goto. > > This "anti-goto-political-correctness-bullshit" has to go. Anyone who > > thinks a for loop generates prettier assembly than an label/if/goto > > had better read more compiler output. > > Huh? I am in *complete* agreement with David here. I have looked at > *thousands* if not *millions* of lines of code in my years in > programming. Although there are times when gotos are necessary AND they > improve readability, they are the exception rather than the rule. When > I see two gotos in a single function it is my opinion that the author > has not spent the time to write the code in a readable manner. Now, > there may be a completely valid reason for it, but it will take a lot > for me to believe that. :) > > A rule enforced in all software houses I've worked in. "Programmers who > use gotos will be publically ridiculed" I look forward to your and David's patches to the following functions, and to the functions not in these two subdirectories that have the same "goto infestation problem": kern/kern_exec.c:execve() kern/kern_fork.c:fork1() kern/kern_ktrace.c:ktrace() kern/kern_physio.c:phsyio() kern/kern_sig.c:psignal() kern/kern_synch.c:tsleep() kern/subr_diskslice.c:dscheck() kern/subr_diskslice.c:dsopen() kern/subr_prf.c:kprintf() kern/subr_prf.c:sprintf() kern/subr_rlist.c:rlist_free() kern/sys_generic.c:readv() kern/sys_generic.c:writev() kern/sys_generic.c:select() kern/tty.c:ttyinput() kern/tty_pty.c:ptcwrite() kern/uipc_mbuf.c:m_pullup() kern/uipc_socket.c:soclose() kern/uipc_socket.c:sodisconnect() kern/uipc_socket.c:sosend() kern/uipc_socket.c:soreceive() kern/uipc_socket.c:sosetopt() kern/uipc_socket2.c:soerserve() kern/uipc_syscalls.c:socketpair() kern/uipc_syscalls.c:sendit() kern/uipc_syscalls.c:recvit() kern/uipc_syscalls.c:pipe() kern/uipc_syscalls.c:getpeername1() kern/uipc_usrreq.c:uipc_usrreq() kern/vfs_bio.c:getnewbuf() kern/vfs_bio.c:getblk() kern/vfs_bio.c:allocbuf() kern/vfs_cluster.c:cluster_wbuild() kern/vfs_lookup.c:lookup() kern/vfs_lookup.c:relookup() kern/vfs_subr.c:checkalias() kern/vfs_subr.c:vfs_hang_addrlist() kern/vfs_subr.c:vfs_msync() kern/vfs_syscalls.c:symlink() kern/vfs_syscalls.c:rename() kern/vfs_syscalls.c:rmdir() kern/vfs_syscalls.c:getdirentries() kern/vfs_syscalls.c:revoke() kern/vfs_vnops.c:vn_open() vm/vm_fault.c:vm_fault() vm/vm_glue.c:scheduler() vm/vm_map.c:vm_map_copy() vm/vm_map.c:vm_map_lookup() vm/vm_mmap.c:vm_mmap() vm/vm_object.c:_vm_object_page_clean() vm/vm_object.c:vm_object_copy() vm/vm_object.c:vm_object_page_remove() ... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 12:27:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA25805 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:27:50 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA25763 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:27:08 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA29018 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:24:41 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 19 Sep 95 23:24:41 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA01216; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:23:28 +0400 To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org References: <199509191745.KAA10194@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: ; from =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= at Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:20:38 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:23:28 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED Lines: 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 708 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= writes: >Colors are attributes for true SCO console. F.e. inverse attribute >emulates via colors which can have any value. >Bold attribute emulates via colors too. Vice versa is true too: attributes are colors. And there is NO WAY to distinguish colors from attributes, check ANSI escape codes for SCO console. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 12:38:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA26545 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:38:08 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26540 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:38:05 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA25626; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:39:53 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:39:53 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509191939.NAA25626@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? In-Reply-To: <199509191856.LAA10348@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509190615.XAA03449@ref.tfs.com> <199509191856.LAA10348@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > ok, so we know some people don't like Terry's style.. > > ok, so what.. > > if he produces a useful piece of code we can still use it.. > > I've seen bits of core in other people's code I don't like, and people > > have taken such a dislike to my code that they've totally reformatted it.. > > ok, > > This is why 4.4BSD-Lite includes a GNU indent template. Almost, but not quite. It provides a BSD indent template in the KNF style, although as Bruce has pointed out in the past the indent.pro file doesn't do a very good job of enforcing the correct style. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:00:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27245 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:00:51 -0700 Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA27240 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:00:48 -0700 Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0sv8qU-0009YFC; Tue, 19 Sep 95 13:00 PDT Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:00:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Guess we don't need to port Java! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Yesterday, Netscape Communications announced version 2.0 of Netscape Navigator, which will have a lot of neat new features, including Java support! The first beta version should be available from their web site next week (including a BSDI UNIX version). Looks like we won't need to worry about porting HotJava to FreeBSD after all. :-) Anyway, here's the URL for Netscape's announcement for those who want to read about the new features: http://www.mcom.com/comprod/products/navigator/version_2.0/index.html ---Jake Hamby jehamby@lightside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:23:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27856 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:23:11 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27849 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:23:01 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10542; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:20:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192020.NAA10542@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:20:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509191354.IAA29446@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Sep 19, 95 08:54:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2416 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I personally have a number of problems with the encoding ordering for > >ligatured languages, like Tamil, Devengari, Hebrew, Arabic, etc., since > >there is an implied inability to use fixed cell rendering technologies, > >like X. > > Why should the storage encoding and the display encoding and the internal > encoding be the same? You can have three encodings if you want. The "internal encoding" you refer to is called process encoding. The display encoding should not have to be the same. But the simple facts of the matter are that if it is not, then you must translate the lexical values before display. For X applications, this means hiding additional font loading and character adjacency multiplexing in each X application, or changing the way the X server renders strings (making it not-quite-X anymore). There's some nice sample code for a program called "xtamil" that renders Tamil text (Tamil is an Indic script) that show up these problems quite well. > The overhead is minimal, it's not like we're mandating display postscript. No, that's exactly what's being mandated. Taligent and Adobe have many ties, starting at the board of directors level. Even if display postscript isn't really beaing mandated a similar technology, best described as "anything but X", *is* being mandated. This because the increaded application complexity and involvement in rendering is simply unacceptable. Rendering of strings *is* seperated from application intervention (XDraw[Image]String[16]) as long as it is possible to use fixed cell rendering for the languages, ar (as in "xtamil") to use a range based decoupling of font glyph set index from character set index. > >Rendering the file length meaningless and requiring the use of record > >oriented file systems with variant length records to handle data from > >fix length input fields from user interaction screens. > > And this claim is just weird. This is an application issue... file systems > have nothing to do with it. If the only things you feed into the kernel > are multibyte character strings, you don't need any of this. Suprise. Software engineers write applications. 8-). The complaint isn't that you can't work around what is effectively a loss of information, but that you have to do so. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:28:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28022 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:28:32 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28017 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:28:27 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA08904; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:37:56 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25407 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:28:07 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14032 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:22:49 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA00933; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:04:22 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199509191704.TAA00933@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:04:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hsu@cs.hut.fi, bakul@netcom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1804.811499922@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 19, 95 01:38:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 726 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >_ > > > Yes, and I also think that 640kbytes of memory is certainly enough for > > anything you would want to do with your computer. > > Isn't that a famous Bill Gates line? :-) > > Jordan Or alternatively of Ken Olsen (founder of Digital Equipment Corp) who upon seeing the first Microvax with 70Mb disk said: "Why would anyone ever want such a big disk on this machine?" (Or something to the same effect) ;-) Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:32:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28189 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:32:39 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28182 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:32:32 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10566; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:28:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192028.NAA10566@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:28:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509191905.NAA25538@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 19, 95 01:05:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2379 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > 9 items in short term memory simultaneously. That would be why phone > > > > numbers are 7 digits. > > > > > > > > I'm not even taxing the low end of the study participants. > > > > > > What this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. > > > > It shows that David's complaint about 3 goto's is religious, and not as > > he said a result of battling obfuscation. > > Huh, you lost me here. Look. For humans to become confused, you need to stuff more than 5-9 things in front of their face in order to decouple their short term memory. To put this in computerese, humans have a 5-9 item cache. If you don't go over 5, then you don't bust the cache on even substandard humans (manufactured by Cyrix?). David's complaint is that 3 goto's obfuscate things. In reality, >5-9 goto's obfuscate things (by overflowing a human's cache). He pulled the number 3 out of the air based on his religion in this regard. > > Getting to the one function exit the way the BSD code is currently > > written requires a goto. > > If the code *needs* to be written that way, then I can see your point, > but I don't see that as part of KNF. The only thing even mentioning > exits implies that you can have multiple exits in any function. > > I quote: > /* > * Exits should be 0 on success, and 1 on failure. Don't denote > * all the possible exit points, using the integers 1 through 300. > */ > exit(0); /* Avoid obvious comments such as "Exit 0 on success." */ This is a problem in the general applicability of the specification. Many kernel functions return an errno value. Either this specification doesn't apply to that code, or that code is in fact flawed. Pick one. > > I look forward to your and David's patches to the following functions, > > and to the functions not in these two subdirectories that have the same > > "goto infestation problem": > > AFAIK, we are discussing new code re-writes, not changing already > existing code. Re-writing all of the existing code is a worthy task, > but there are much worthier tasks that need to be done. If this is a form vs. function argument now, then I have already won, since you also seem to be on the side of function. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:36:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28362 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:36:58 -0700 Received: from dawnrazor.campus.luth.se (root@dawnrazor.campus.luth.se [130.240.193.73]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28356 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:36:52 -0700 Received: (from offe@localhost) by dawnrazor.campus.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA20427; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:35:01 +0200 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:34:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olof Johansson To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Guess we don't need to port Java! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > Yesterday, Netscape Communications announced version 2.0 of Netscape > Navigator, which will have a lot of neat new features, including Java > support! The first beta version should be available from their web site > next week (including a BSDI UNIX version). Looks like we won't need to > worry about porting HotJava to FreeBSD after all. :-) Anyway, here's > the URL for Netscape's announcement for those who want to read about the new > features: > > http://www.mcom.com/comprod/products/navigator/version_2.0/index.html I hope that won't be BSDI as in BSDI 2.0... -Olof From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:40:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28548 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:40:42 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28543 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:40:37 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10590; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:33:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192033.NAA10590@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:33:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Sep 19, 95 11:23:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1091 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > In message > =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= writes: > > >Colors are attributes for true SCO console. F.e. inverse attribute > >emulates via colors which can have any value. > >Bold attribute emulates via colors too. > > Vice versa is true too: attributes are colors. > And there is NO WAY to distinguish colors from attributes, > check ANSI escape codes for SCO console. The SCO console supports ISO (not ANSI) escape sequences for colors 0-7 for foreground and background. The SCO console has extensions in addition to this for colors 0-15. The SCO console has an extension for changing the blink attribute bit in the screen memory to high intensity, in respect of a workaround to a CGA register setting, which is generally emulated on modern VGA hardware. If I type ^[[1m^[[H^[[J on an SCO console, the color will not be changed from the default to the bold values (I just tried it). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:45:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28776 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:45:55 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28770 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:45:43 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10620; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:41:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192041.NAA10620@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:41:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: hsu@cs.hut.fi, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509191558.IAA09962@netcom15.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Sep 19, 95 08:58:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1537 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Yes, and I also think that 640kbytes of memory is certainly enough for > > anything you would want to do with your computer. > > Cute but it misses the point. If N bytes are enough, using > 2N bytes for a benefit that one won't see for ages, if ever, > is a waste for any value of N. Especially when there is an > immediate cost of doing so [allocating twice as much memory > means you will take twice as many page faults etc. etc.]. > Make a few decisions like this and you'll have slow moving > monster programs for which 640Mbytes won't be enough. Re: wchar_t as 16 bits vs. 32 bits and it's presence in the kernel. The Win95 long file name support uses 16 bit process-encoded Unicode characters for file name storage of long file names. The WinNT file system uses 16 bit process-encoded Unicode characters for file name storage of *all* file names, both long and short. If you ever hope to support mounting of Win95 file systems with exposure of the long names, or if you ever expect to support mounting of WinNT file systems, then you need 16 bit process encoded Unicode strings in the kernel. Period. You will not be able to accomplish component name lookup otherwise. I don't really care whether I have to add additional unsigned short based functions or not, though using wchar_t as a 16 bit unsigned value would save a lot of code duplication and kernel bloat. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:47:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28908 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:47:53 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28903 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:47:48 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA25811; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:49:50 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:49:50 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509192049.OAA25811@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) In-Reply-To: <199509192028.NAA10566@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509191905.NAA25538@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199509192028.NAA10566@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > 9 items in short term memory simultaneously. That would be why phone > > > > > numbers are 7 digits. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not even taxing the low end of the study participants. > > > > > > > > What this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. > > > > > > It shows that David's complaint about 3 goto's is religious, and not as > > > he said a result of battling obfuscation. > > > > Huh, you lost me here. > > Look. For humans to become confused, you need to stuff more than 5-9 > things in front of their face in order to decouple their short term > memory. To put this in computerese, humans have a 5-9 item cache. If > you don't go over 5, then you don't bust the cache on even substandard > humans (manufactured by Cyrix?). > > David's complaint is that 3 goto's obfuscate things. > > In reality, >5-9 goto's obfuscate things (by overflowing a human's cache). > > He pulled the number 3 out of the air based on his religion in this regard. No, I think that *ANY* # of gotos obfuscate things, but sometimes a single goto is less obfuscation (is that a word?) than other choices. > > > Getting to the one function exit the way the BSD code is currently > > > written requires a goto. > > > > If the code *needs* to be written that way, then I can see your point, > > but I don't see that as part of KNF. The only thing even mentioning > > exits implies that you can have multiple exits in any function. > > > > I quote: > > /* > > * Exits should be 0 on success, and 1 on failure. Don't denote > > * all the possible exit points, using the integers 1 through 300. > > */ > > exit(0); /* Avoid obvious comments such as "Exit 0 on success." */ > > This is a problem in the general applicability of the specification. Many > kernel functions return an errno value. Fair enough. In those cases it is acceptable to return a different errno to designate a different error. But, the issue you brought up was that it is necessary to use gotos in order to maintain one exit point. My point was using gotos to keep one exit point is un-necessary obfuscation. > Either this specification doesn't apply to that code, or that code is in > fact flawed. Pick one. As I understand it, the specification quoted above was meant to be applied to application programs who 'exit'. I used it to show that there was no documentation which implied one exit point from a function. I'm not sure where you got this feeling from. > > > I look forward to your and David's patches to the following functions, > > > and to the functions not in these two subdirectories that have the same > > > "goto infestation problem": > > > > AFAIK, we are discussing new code re-writes, not changing already > > existing code. Re-writing all of the existing code is a worthy task, > > but there are much worthier tasks that need to be done. > > If this is a form vs. function argument now, then I have already won, > since you also seem to be on the side of function. No, I'm saying that *IF* you are going to re-write the code, write it in such a manner that makes it understandable. Modifying the code from a dis-functional but readable form into a functional but un-readable form is not progress. First of all, someone has to own the code in the CVS tree, and if they don't understand it at some level, they are not going to commit it. Second of all, IMHO most of the bugs in the system exist in areas where the code is not extremely readable. I've seen too many systems where 'form' was not followed and functionality ruled, and when the person who implemented the 'functionality' left the code continued to live on bugs and all since no-one else understood it. Let's strive for both form and function. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 13:55:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29144 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:55:48 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29136 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:55:42 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10658; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:51:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192051.NAA10658@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: IFS and win95 To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:51:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu In-Reply-To: <9509191410.AA15567@gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com> from "Marty Leisner" at Sep 19, 95 07:10:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1374 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Win95 seems to have support for user installable file systems... This is massively undocumented code, especially path manipulation and error management. > I don't have any good technical references on this yet, but is > anyone writing drivers for ext2 and ffs filesystems in win95? Artisoft (the company I work for) is entering Alpha testing on an FFS port to Win95 to resolve the drive size, partition size, speed, and fragmentation issues that VFAT doesn't. > Is there any reason why this can't work? None at all. In fact, we have ported the entire Heidemann framework to Win95 and added short file name and Unicode support to UFS. Any FS written to the Heidemann framework should run (ext2, Andrew, UFS, LFS, etc.). > Can anyone point me a good references? The only reference for IFS is in the MS DDK, and it's not really written expecting people will actually use it to do real things. Your best bet would be to buy WinICE and step through the debug version of Win95 (you can install symbol containing VXD's from the DDK) after setting a breakpoint on IFSMgr_RegisterMount. Then watch what VFAT does. Note that this changed between Beta 950 and the release version of Win95. This really doesn't belong on this list. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 14:13:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA29844 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:13:14 -0700 Received: from vegemite.Stanford.EDU (2842@vegemite.Stanford.EDU [36.159.0.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA29839 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:13:10 -0700 Received: (hlew@localhost) by vegemite.Stanford.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.4) id OAA27126; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:13:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:13:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: long filenames Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is there any chance FreeBSD will support the long filenames in Win95 so we can exchange files with Win95 & FreeBSD partitions without truncated filenames? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 14:26:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA00510 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:26:24 -0700 Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00495 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:26:20 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA11729; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:26:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:26:22 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199509192126.RAA11729@Glock.COM> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: TTL decrement Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok, if you saw my previous message, you know what my network setup looks like. If not, basically I'm on a port of a hub that only wants to see one hardware address, but doesn't mind multiple ip addresses. I'm going to setup a freebsd 2.0.5R box as a proxy arp, ip forwarding machine, with two to three machines hanging off it that it proxy arps and forwards to, and on its other interface it will be connected to the hub mentioned above. I don't want this machine to show up to nosy people who traceroute to my internal machines and such, so what I was wondering is if given this limited network situation, and considering I can guarantee it won't change, is it ok to go ahead and remove the TTL decrement on packets it forwards across the two interfaces? Anyone know of any problems this might cause? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM | Network Administration and Software Development http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ | Consulting: BizNet Technologies -> mmead@bnt.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 14:33:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA00704 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:33:14 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00695 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:33:02 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA10722; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:28:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192128.OAA10722@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:28:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509192049.OAA25811@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 19, 95 02:49:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 6237 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > He pulled the number 3 out of the air based on his religion in this regard. > > No, I think that *ANY* # of gotos obfuscate things, but sometimes a > single goto is less obfuscation (is that a word?) than other choices. This is opinion. It has been noted. I don't agree with it. > > This is a problem in the general applicability of the specification. Many > > kernel functions return an errno value. > > Fair enough. In those cases it is acceptable to return a different > errno to designate a different error. But, the issue you brought up was > that it is necessary to use gotos in order to maintain one exit point. > My point was using gotos to keep one exit point is un-necessary > obfuscation. OK; this deserves clarification. Is it the goto's themselves which you object to, or their use to ensure a single exit point that is objectionable? If the goto's, then in some cases I agree with you, though I find them the lessor of two evils when choosing between drastically increasing indentation and using negative logic or adding a single label and using a goto. This is admittedly a religious issue (like 8 column tabs -- 4 column tabs would resolve the schizm by reducing the indentation, but it seems that your pope and my pope agree on 8 column tabs saving an average of 1.6 characters per line (4 vs. 3 every other line)). If you can point to the-one-true-light, I'll follow it. If on the other hand, you are objecting to the need for single entry/exit, I can justify this in terms of adding kernel multithreading and SMP locks in such a way as to cause them to "go away" in the Uniprocessor or non multithreading case. It should be noted that USL was able to get a 60% performance improvement out of UFS in the Uniporcessor case, even taking the extra locking into account, by kernel multithreading. > As I understand it, the specification quoted above was meant to be > applied to application programs who 'exit'. I used it to show that > there was no documentation which implied one exit point from a function. > I'm not sure where you got this feeling from. I got it from the need to have known state in and out of a function and to maintain that state across changes to the function body. It's difficult to maintain consistency without explicit assertions, and multiplying the exit points multiplies the chances that you will introduce an inconsistency when modifying function bodies. For file system modules, it's possible to enforce state through assertions at the VOP_ layer of inline functions. Unfortuantely, for things like system call trap vectors (and especially the longjmp() out on an interrupt of a system call in the trap code), without single entry/exit, it's near impossible to unwind the additional lock state correctly and consistently, especially with multiple programmers going into that code. I think this makes a good case for single entry/exit, no matter if it is implemented via goto's or negative logic or local stack variables that contain state bitmaps, or whatever. The benefits of kernel multithreading should be obvious. Don't tell me you believe that the BSDI version of Netscape's HotJava port is going to run on FreeBSD without kernel threading support? Single entry/exit is a tool I need to be able to work on the issues of kernel reentrancy, whether it's caused by internal multithreading or a second processor coming in on a system call or interrupt is really not relevant. If you can work on the problem without that tool, fine: do it. > > If this is a form vs. function argument now, then I have already won, > > since you also seem to be on the side of function. > > No, I'm saying that *IF* you are going to re-write the code, write it in > such a manner that makes it understandable. And I'm saying, adding a goto to an error label is not obfuscating the code into unreadability. It is clearly an error path and clearly an exception case. As I said before, point to the-one-true-light, and I'll follow it. > Modifying the code from a dis-functional but readable form into a > functional but un-readable form is not progress. I agree. The closes I've come to that, as I said before, is SYSINIT. I made it plain at the time I submitted the code that the order of operation was documented in the enumerated type code in kernel.h, and that it was not expected to be changed frequenetly, but that some overall kernel documentation on the order of the Dameon book should probably be assembled. There is *nothing* more obfusacted in the kernel than the return from the creation of the init process to the assembly language caller of the main(). I pointed out that what is wanted is the export of a function label that gets called instead of having that return happen. > First of all, someone has to own the code in the CVS tree, and if > they don't understand it at some level, they are not going to commit it. Fine. Come up with a more readable alternative than a goto in error cases to an error label and no goto in non-error cases except where massive function reordering would be necessary. > Second of all, IMHO most of the bugs in the system exist in areas where > the code is not extremely readable. I agree. Like the HASBUF/SAVENAME/SAVESTART crap in namei() and each VOP_ lookup and each VOP_ call that deals with directory entry manipulation. I'd like to clean that up, if only people would let me. Sheesh! > I've seen too many systems where 'form' was not followed and > functionality ruled, and when the person who implemented the > 'functionality' left the code continued to live on bugs and all since > no-one else understood it. > > Let's strive for both form and function. I don't believe adding a goto translates a program into Sanskrit. Tell you what. I'll teach you how to read a goto. Then you can carry on when I get hit by a car on my way home some night by some anti-goto zealot. After my martyrdom, you can expand the teaching, and all programmers everywhere will one day understand the language constructs of the languages in which they program. 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 14:35:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA00815 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:35:19 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00769 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:34:51 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA10738; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:29:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192129.OAA10738@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: suspect code in 'unlink' syscall. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:29:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509190730.RAA30694@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Sep 19, 95 05:30:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 439 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > This way, the error code is bogusly set for non-root, so that only root > can unlink anything. Also, root is bogusly recorded as having used the > superuser privilege to unlink non-directories. Also, the formatting is > messed up. > > You may have added some gotos to avoid the first bug. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 14:49:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA01702 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:49:06 -0700 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01689 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:48:59 -0700 Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA16347; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:44:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:44:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Terry Lambert cc: Nate Williams , terry@lambert.org, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) In-Reply-To: <199509192128.OAA10722@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The real question is does this have to be bashed around on hackers... Seems like a basically religious issue, which deserves it's own majordomo list... ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz........ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:01:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA02565 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:01:06 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02525 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:00:43 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA10858; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:56:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192156.OAA10858@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:56:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Sep 19, 95 02:44:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 880 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The real question is does this have to be bashed around on hackers... > Seems like a basically religious issue, which deserves it's own majordomo > list... No, this is Nate taking up David's Ad Homin attack on my coding style, which obfuscated the original issue of 16 bit Unicode characters in the kernel. Overall coding style is a matter for an indent program built into the "cvs commit" procedure. The question "how do I determine program flow when I see a goto?" is a stupid question. The *real* question is whether we want to be able to mount Win95 and Windows NT file systems. or not. It has nothing to do with whether I use "too many" goto's in fixing code I wouldn't be in in the first place if it functioned correctly. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:01:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA02621 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:01:24 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02599 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:01:14 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id PAA05892 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:01:08 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id XAA28595; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:57:56 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.11/8.6.12) id XAA06608; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:47:36 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199509192147.XAA06608@knobel.gun.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD-stable of today: typo in /sys/sys/queue.h line 150: To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:47:36 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190151.SAA03851@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Sep 18, 95 06:51:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 924 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >After supping src-sys-stable on Mon Sep 18 20:22:13 MET DST 1995: > >Found a wrong control character in /sys/sys/queue.h > >the #define in line 145 > >#define TAILQ_INSERT_TAIL(head, elm, field) { > >Instead of 'h' there was a control character. > > This appears to be a problem local to your own machine. The file on > freefall is correct. This was the beginning of the end ... more and more files, that I compiled on my -stable machine got control characters and cc got problems with sig 11 exceptions. So I deceided to install 2.0.5R again and only to fetch the -stable kernel.... Up to now recompiling of the whole system (make world) only brought problems. Leds to an broken gcc. -- Andreas Klemm You have lpd and need an intelligent print filter ?!! Ok, this might help: "apsfilter ... irgendwie clever" ftp it from ------> ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/Incoming/aps-491.tgz From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:03:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA02882 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:03:57 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02873 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:03:50 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA26020; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:02:18 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:02:18 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509192202.QAA26020@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) In-Reply-To: <199509192128.OAA10722@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509192049.OAA25811@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199509192128.OAA10722@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > Fair enough. In those cases it is acceptable to return a different > > errno to designate a different error. But, the issue you brought up was > > that it is necessary to use gotos in order to maintain one exit point. > > My point was using gotos to keep one exit point is un-necessary > > obfuscation. > > OK; this deserves clarification. Is it the goto's themselves which you > object to, or their use to ensure a single exit point that is objectionable? If that is the only use of the goto (which you implied in an earlier message) then I feel that the use of gotos is objectionable. Again, I have seen very few cases where gotos improved readability. And, as noted you disagree with my opinion that gotos are inherently evil and should be avoided at all costs. > If the goto's, then in some cases I agree with you, though I find them > the lessor of two evils when choosing between drastically increasing > indentation and using negative logic or adding a single label and using > a goto. This is where we will continue to disagree. My brain and my editor both like parens for separating code blocks. When you throw in gotos my brain has to think differently, ala BASIC. *grin* Note that I also use 4 spaces for indentation, and 4 spaces instead of tabs to get more stuff on the screen. The more stuff I can see on the screen, the better off I will be in seeing overall flow of the system. > This is admittedly a religious issue (like 8 column tabs -- 4 column tabs > would resolve the schizm by reducing the indentation, but it seems that > your pope and my pope agree on 8 column tabs saving an average of 1.6 > characters per line (4 vs. 3 every other line)). > > If you can point to the-one-true-light, I'll follow it. *laugh* > > As I understand it, the specification quoted above was meant to be > > applied to application programs who 'exit'. I used it to show that > > there was no documentation which implied one exit point from a function. > > I'm not sure where you got this feeling from. > > I got it from the need to have known state in and out of a function and > to maintain that state across changes to the function body. > It's difficult to maintain consistency without explicit assertions, and > multiplying the exit points multiplies the chances that you will introduce > an inconsistency when modifying function bodies. True, but adding gotos messes up logical program flow IMHO. > > > If this is a form vs. function argument now, then I have already won, > > > since you also seem to be on the side of function. > > > > No, I'm saying that *IF* you are going to re-write the code, write it in > > such a manner that makes it understandable. > > And I'm saying, adding a goto to an error label is not obfuscating the > code into unreadability. It is clearly an error path and clearly an > exception case. Again, we have a difference of opinion here. > > Let's strive for both form and function. > > I don't believe adding a goto translates a program into Sanskrit. But it un-necessarily obfuscates the code, vs. negative logic and the other forms of indenations you've mentioned above. > Tell you what. I'll teach you how to read a goto. Then you can carry on > when I get hit by a car on my way home some night by some anti-goto zealot. But why should I learn how to do something which is only used in code you write? I like the rest of the sheep will follow the one true way of writing C, which means no gotos. Again, it's getting rather religious and off topic now, so I'll shutup after this. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:04:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA02930 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:04:14 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02923 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:04:10 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA26033; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:06:07 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:06:07 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509192206.QAA26033@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) In-Reply-To: <199509192156.OAA10858@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509192156.OAA10858@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > The real question is does this have to be bashed around on hackers... > > Seems like a basically religious issue, which deserves it's own majordomo > > list... > > No, this is Nate taking up David's Ad Homin attack on my coding style, > which obfuscated the original issue of 16 bit Unicode characters in the > kernel. > > The question "how do I determine program flow when I see a goto?" is a > stupid question. No, the *real* question is: "If you write code in a style that is un-acceptable to those folks who will commit/maintain that code in the FreeBSD source tree, is the time it takes to re-write or understand the code worth it?" Note, maintainenance of the code is not and should not be on person's job, so more than one person must be able to understand the code. The VM system is a great example. We have two people actively writing and maintaining the code, so I never have to look at it. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:24:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA03459 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:24:49 -0700 Received: from vinkku.hut.fi (root@vinkku.hut.fi [130.233.245.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA03454 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:24:44 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-20.hut.fi (lk-hp-20.hut.fi [130.233.247.33]) by vinkku.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) with ESMTP id BAA12539 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:24:37 +0300 From: Juha Inkari Received: (inkari@localhost) by lk-hp-20.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.7) id BAA29255 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:24:37 +0300 Message-Id: <199509192224.BAA29255@lk-hp-20.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:24:37 +0200 (EETDST) In-Reply-To: <199509192128.OAA10722@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 19, 95 02:28:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 341 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One reason to be carefull with goto statements is C++ compability. In C++ it is illegal to jump over variable initialization. For example, the code below is valid C, but not valid C++. if (1) { goto jump; } while (1) { int b = 1; jump: /* stuff ... */ } This is, of course, bad practise in plain C, too. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:26:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA03673 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:26:43 -0700 Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA03661 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:26:39 -0700 Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0svB7I-0009YIC; Tue, 19 Sep 95 15:26 PDT Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:26:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Olof Johansson cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Guess we don't need to port Java! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Olof Johansson wrote: > On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > Yesterday, Netscape Communications announced version 2.0 of Netscape > > Navigator, which will have a lot of neat new features, including Java > > support! The first beta version should be available from their web site > > next week (including a BSDI UNIX version). Looks like we won't need to > > worry about porting HotJava to FreeBSD after all. :-) Anyway, here's > > the URL for Netscape's announcement for those who want to read about the new > > features: > > > > http://www.mcom.com/comprod/products/navigator/version_2.0/index.html > > I hope that won't be BSDI as in BSDI 2.0... > > > -Olof I believe Netscape 2.0 will work under BSDI 1.x or 2.0. At any rate, Netscape 1.1 works fine under FreeBSD 2.0.5 (and 2.1.0-stable). Even though a Linux version isn't specifically listed, since there is a Linux version of Netscape 1.1, my guess is that Netscape 2.0 will be available for that platform as well. ---Jake Hamby jehamby@lightside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:32:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA04137 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:32:01 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA04131 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:31:59 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA22702; Tue, 19 Sep 95 22:31:55 GMT Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA20842; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:31:52 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:31:52 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9509192231.AA20842@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: Jake Hamby , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Guess we don't need to port Java! Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > http://www.mcom.com/comprod/products/navigator/version_2.0/index.html Wow. They don't even have a Linux version available. (Yet.) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA Here's a good trick: Get a job as a judge at the Olympics. Then, if some guy sets a world record, pretend that you didn't see it and go, "Okay, is everybody ready to start now?" -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:32:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA04195 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:32:54 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA04186 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:32:50 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA11020; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:29:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192229.PAA11020@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:29:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509192206.QAA26033@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 19, 95 04:06:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 461 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Note, maintainenance of the code is not and should not be on person's > job, so more than one person must be able to understand the code. The > VM system is a great example. We have two people actively writing and > maintaining the code, so I never have to look at it. :) The VM code has multiple gotos in functions. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 15:33:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA04301 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:33:42 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA04292 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:33:38 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA11037; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:31:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509192231.PAA11037@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: inkari@snakemail.hut.fi (Juha Inkari) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:31:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509192224.BAA29255@lk-hp-20.hut.fi> from "Juha Inkari" at Sep 20, 95 01:24:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 381 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One reason to be carefull with goto statements is C++ compability. > In C++ it is illegal to jump over variable initialization. Jumping into an inferior scope is bad practice, period, and will not work on many older K&R compilers, either. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 16:06:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA05079 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:06:41 -0700 Received: from Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (Wit401402.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA05033 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:06:15 -0700 Received: (from alain@localhost) by Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA00438; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:05:42 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:05:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker Reply-To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl To: Terry Lambert cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-Reply-To: <199509182019.NAA08435@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > Say "goodbye, fixed field input", say "goodbye, fixed length record storage", > say "hello, record oriented file systems", say "hello, user interface rewrite > for all internationally sold products". > Finally [sigh of relief...] it is shimmering on the horizon. After all this waiting. :-) --- Alain From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 16:22:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA05669 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:22:27 -0700 Received: from Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (Wit401402.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA05660 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:22:22 -0700 Received: (from alain@localhost) by Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA00459; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:21:32 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:21:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker Reply-To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl To: Terry Lambert cc: Julian Elischer , phk@critter.tfs.com, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-Reply-To: <199509182044.NAA08542@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > This is *not* an attempt to support internationalization of kernel messages. > Though that would be critically cool, it is an unlikely prospect in the > extreme without additional support for argument positioning qualifiers for > syntactic reordering of sentences. And I'm not asking for that (consider Why couldn't we implement these? Building an internationalized kernel would only require including specific language support files. I know the use of them as long ago as a COMAL interpreter on CP/M... It did use positioning qualifiers and such, but even then, it supported error messages in several languages... All right, this sure is not a kernel, but I think the messages a kernel would use are not that diverse, compared to the expressive capabilities of an entire language :-) --- Alain From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 17:21:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA09374 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:21:37 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA09367 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:21:34 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id CAA22317 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:21:30 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id CAA07010 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:21:29 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.Freenix.FR (8.7/keltia-uucp-2.5) id BAA18326 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:55:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199509192355.BAA18326@keltia.Freenix.FR> Subject: IP Filter version 2.8 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers' list) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:55:07 +0200 (MET DST) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1085 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a+] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk ------- start of forwarded message ------- From: avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.security.unix,alt.security Subject: IP Filter version 2.8 Date: 16 Sep 1995 02:05:02 +1000 Organization: Coombs Computing Unit, ANU Announcing IP Filter version 2.8 What is IP Filter ? Quick answer: a free packet filter which can be incorporated into any of the supported operating systems, providing IP packet level filtering per interface. What's that mean to me ? It means you can build it into your network servers which have more than a single ethernet interface to protect your servers and internal networks from IP spoofing and other attacks which defeat service level access control methods. Also, if you're confident enough, you can use this package to help build your own firewall. I'd recommend using the TIS Firewall Toolkit in conjunction with this package if you think you're capable of this. For more information, details and examples of filter rules, see: http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~avalon/ip-filter.html New to this release: * Solaris 2.4 (on ethernet interfaces ONLY) is now supported except for the return-rst and return-icmp options; * Can now (optionally) log the first 128 bytes of a packet (if present), including the packet header; * ipmon can now generate log entries with names in place of numerical hostname and port data by using the -N command line option; * ipmon can now optionally log output through syslog using the new -s command line option; * IPSO Basic Security Options filtering; * In-kernel filtering can be turned on/off; * Regression testing to check the correctness of the filter; * IP test program (ipsend) is now included with the package to allow the administrator to send arbitary IP packets, or replay packet sequences at the filter - runs on Linux, *BSD, Solaris2 and SunOS 4.1.x; * Compacts IP header into a directly filterable form; * Three-way filtering results, allowing packets which don't match any rule to be counted and subjected to a general policy of denial or permission; * Perl script suggesting rules (and other changes needed) that you'll need to protect yourself from IP spoofing. darren ------- end of forwarded message ------- -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.Freenix.FR 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Sep 10 18:50:19 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 17:38:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA09754 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:38:13 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA09747 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:38:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA01132 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:36:46 +0100 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: man page writing Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:36:42 +0100 Message-ID: <1130.811557402@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hiya Don't suppose someone has a tutorial on how to use nroff -man macros to write & format manpages? :-) I'm currently trying to tidy up the ipfw manpages so that they at least appear like other manpages, and may even be easier to read. (No offense to Ugen, but his English isn't the best). The problem is, I don't have a list of valid macros, and what they do... A tutorial doc would be perfect (and probably much needed). Anyone? Thanks Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 18:23:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA10761 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:23:44 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA10716 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:22:31 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA20926; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:06:38 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199509200136.LAA20926@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:06:37 +0930 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hsu@cs.hut.fi, bakul@netcom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509191704.TAA00933@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Sep 19, 95 07:04:21 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 777 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte stands accused of saying: > Or alternatively of Ken Olsen (founder of Digital Equipment Corp) who > upon seeing the first Microvax with 70Mb disk said: "Why would > anyone ever want such a big disk on this machine?" You obviously have never used an MVI 8) I can't see why anyone would want anything more than the RX80 (RX81?) twin-spindle floppy on one of those abortions. > Wilko -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 18:37:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA11046 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:37:16 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11039 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:37:12 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA20947; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:19:43 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199509200149.LAA20947@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: IFS and win95 To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:19:43 +0930 (CST) Cc: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu In-Reply-To: <199509192051.NAA10658@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 19, 95 01:51:44 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 620 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > Artisoft (the company I work for) is entering Alpha testing on an Aha! At last, all is revealed, and much understood. Any chance of seeing a unix-hosted Lantastic server? 8) > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 18:49:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA11260 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:49:17 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA11252 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:49:10 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA22540 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:33:33 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA13405; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:20:34 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509200120.UAA13405@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:20:33 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509191902.MAA10393@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 19, 95 12:02:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 143 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > If you consider reducing the MAXPATHNAME by one for every expansion, > then yes, I suppose it does. Why does NAMEI need to expand anything? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 18:50:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA11313 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:50:19 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA11308 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:50:16 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA22543 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:33:44 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA13422; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:23:33 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509200123.UAA13422@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:23:32 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509191904.MAA10411@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 19, 95 12:04:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 535 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Because you have to redo the string before you redraw or allow the character > entry in the "fixed length field" and interactive response will suffer > because of that. It has been my experience that the minimal resources required for X are such that even if every character required a callback the slowest component in the system is still the nut holding the keyboard. This sort of argument made sense on an 11/70 where you avoided using CBREAK mode because of the overhead, but nobody's running FreeBSD on an 8086-class machine. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 18:51:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA11368 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:51:07 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA11362 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:51:03 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA22545 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:33:54 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA13444; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:28:25 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509200128.UAA13444@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:28:25 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509192020.NAA10542@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 19, 95 01:20:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 951 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >Rendering the file length meaningless and requiring the use of record > > >oriented file systems with variant length records to handle data from > > >fix length input fields from user interaction screens. > > And this claim is just weird. This is an application issue... file systems > > have nothing to do with it. If the only things you feed into the kernel > > are multibyte character strings, you don't need any of this. > Suprise. Software engineers write applications. The software component known as a file system is a fairly simple application. It doesn't need to even consider the meaning of any multibyte character, it has to recognise when a "/" is part of a character as opposed to being a complete character itself, by looking at the high bit of the previous byte. > 8-). The complaint isn't > that you can't work around what is effectively a loss of information, but > that you have to do so. What information loss is that? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 19:18:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA11950 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:18:37 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA11940 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:18:25 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA22834 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:02:52 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA14233; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:01:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:01:14 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509200201.VAA14233@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509191852.LAA10314@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509190433.WAA24091@rocky.sri.MT.net> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk While I'm no fan of excessive gotos, or excessive goto avoidance... In article <199509191852.LAA10314@phaeton.artisoft.com>, Terry Lambert wrote: >> > According to a Bell Labs study, human beings are capable of keeping 5 to >> > 9 items in short term memory simultaneously. That would be why phone >> > numbers are 7 digits. >> > I'm not even taxing the low end of the study participants. >> What this has to do with you using goto's I have no idea. >It shows that David's complaint about 3 goto's is religious, and not as >he said a result of battling obfuscation. Um, those three gotos aren't "three things you have to remember", but rather "three *more* things you have to remember". If you're already dealing with four arguments, a function name, and a macro you just blew it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 19:37:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA12617 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:37:31 -0700 Received: from sraigw.sra.co.jp (sraigw.sra.co.jp [202.32.10.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA12609 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:37:27 -0700 Received: from sranhd.sra.co.jp by sraigw.sra.co.jp (8.6.12+2.4W3/3.4W-2.1) id LAA09162; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:37:23 +0900 Received: from sras13.sra.co.jp (sras13 [133.137.20.76]) by sranhd.sra.co.jp (8.6.12+2.4W3/3.4W-srambox) with SMTP id LAA06754 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:34:38 +0900 Received: from localhost by sras13.sra.co.jp (5.65c/6.4J.6-SJX) id AA01748; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:35:20 +0900 Message-Id: <199509200235.AA01748@sras13.sra.co.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: document for PCI Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:35:19 +0900 From: Kazuhiro Kitagawa Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, hackers. Over ten years ago, I wrote device drivers for VAX on 4.2BSD and taught Unix internals. Now, I am going to write device driver for PCI card on FreeBSD, again. However, I am new to the freeBSD and PCI. Does anyone knows any documents for PCI drivers on FreeBSD ? Like 4.2BSD and 4.3BSD like documents(I forgot title, sorry) are fine, if available. I am looking forward to reply. -kaz kaz kitagawa From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:16:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA15463 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:16:18 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15457 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:16:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA24074; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:15:27 -0700 To: Jaye Mathisen cc: Terry Lambert , Nate Williams , davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Followup-to: goto@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:44:37 PDT." Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:15:27 -0700 Message-ID: <24071.811570527@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The real question is does this have to be bashed around on hackers... > Seems like a basically religious issue, which deserves it's own majordomo > list... > > ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz........ Darn straight! I got so sick and tired of this thread that I took Jaye's suggestion and gave Nate and Terry their own alias. Anyone really, truly interested in this can now send mail to "goto@freebsd.org" and debate it to their heart's content. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:34:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA15997 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:34:27 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15992 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:34:25 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA12843 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:31:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509200431.VAA12843@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: GOTO haters to square one To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:31:49 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 976 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone else noticed: The only code of mine David & Nate have seen from me is kern_lkm.c (no goto's), init_main.c (no goto's), the associated SYSINIT() changes to other files, and the additional support for NFS locking in vfs_syscalls.c + kern_lockf.c + kern_descrip.c (all with no goto's). I wonder where my supposed overuse of goto's comes from? I know, it's my use of error_1 and error_2 in my vfs_mountroot() in vfs_conf.c. Lessee... the error_2 *is* a bit spurious. I should have gotten rid of it when I simplified the code down. It should be use negative logic. The error_1 is probably spurios as well, mostly because the mount point locking should be implied in VFS_MOUNT() instead of right after allocation. Well, what do you know! An interface layering problem of the type that I've been talking about fixing! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:43:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16393 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:43:42 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16386 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:43:40 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA13737; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:40:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509200440.VAA13737@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:40:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, peter@taronga.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509200120.UAA13405@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Sep 19, 95 08:20:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1083 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > If you consider reducing the MAXPATHNAME by one for every expansion, > > then yes, I suppose it does. > > Why does NAMEI need to expand anything? Symbolic links replacing path components that are not the terminal path component get expanded into the cn_pnbuf in the nameidata structure. This reduces the effective MAXPATHLEN. Symbolic links replacing termial path components when FOLLOW is set replace the cn_pnbuf in the nameidata structure. This does not reduce the effecive MAXPATHLEN. This is because symbolic links are not resolved by calling namei on them in place in the link read buffer (going recursive in namei). This is functionally equivalent to coroutine recursion in FORTRAN, though one does not need to expand local variables into arrays to get a "stack". The storage is the cn_pnbuf, MAXPATHLEN bytes in length. It may be an intentional hack to save kernel stack space. Or it might just be bogus. But it's there. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:44:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16465 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:44:38 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16458 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:44:36 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA13817; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:41:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509200441.VAA13817@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:41:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, peter@taronga.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509200123.UAA13422@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Sep 19, 95 08:23:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 375 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > It has been my experience that the minimal resources required for X are > such that even if every character required a callback the slowest component > in the system is still the nut holding the keyboard. Experience SCO Open DeskTop. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:47:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16642 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:47:29 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16630 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:47:27 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA14075; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:44:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509200444.VAA14075@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:44:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509200128.UAA13444@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Sep 19, 95 08:28:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 482 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > 8-). The complaint isn't > > that you can't work around what is effectively a loss of information, but > > that you have to do so. > > What information loss is that? How many records are in the file from stat information. struct myrecord { ... }; ... fstat( fs, &sb); records = sb.st_size / sizeof(struct myrecord); ... For one. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:50:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16773 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:50:52 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16768 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:50:48 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA14276; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:48:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509200448.VAA14276@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:47:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509200201.VAA14233@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Sep 19, 95 09:01:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 414 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Um, those three gotos aren't "three things you have to remember", but rather > "three *more* things you have to remember". If you're already dealing with > four arguments, a function name, and a macro you just blew it. Demonstrate the problem in code I submitted, please. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:52:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16871 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:52:53 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16866 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:52:50 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA14266; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:47:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509200447.VAA14266@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: IFS and win95 To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:47:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu In-Reply-To: <199509200149.LAA20947@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Sep 20, 95 11:19:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 498 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Any chance of seeing a unix-hosted Lantastic server? 8) Actually, we have one, but it will probably never be released. I use it on a daily basis to print from my UNIX box to a Linux box to a Novell or Lantastic print queue. Bug the sales guys. They'll bug their management. Their management will bug top management. And you might see a product. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:53:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA16958 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:53:51 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA16951 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:53:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA24260; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:53:23 -0700 To: Terry Lambert cc: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:41:45 PDT." <199509200441.VAA13817@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:53:23 -0700 Message-ID: <24258.811572803@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > It has been my experience that the minimal resources required for X are > > such that even if every character required a callback the slowest component > > in the system is still the nut holding the keyboard. > > Experience SCO Open DeskTop. Except we always referred to it as Open Death Trap.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 21:59:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA17222 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:59:04 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA17217 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:59:00 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA10868; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:55:30 +1000 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:55:30 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509200455.OAA10868@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bakul@netcom.com, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, hsu@cs.hut.fi Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I don't really care whether I have to add additional unsigned short based >functions or not, though using wchar_t as a 16 bit unsigned value would >save a lot of code duplication and kernel bloat. You have to add additional u_int16_t based functions to support externally imposed 16-bit storage formats, and u_int32_t based functions to support 32-bit storage formats (not to mention u_int36_t based functions to support 36-bit storage formats :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 22:01:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA17295 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:01:16 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA17288 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:01:12 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA28368 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:45:58 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 20 Sep 95 08:45:57 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA00471; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:38:05 +0400 To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org References: <199509192033.NAA10590@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199509192033.NAA10590@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert at Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:33:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:38:05 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED Lines: 28 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1133 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199509192033.NAA10590@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: >The SCO console supports ISO (not ANSI) escape sequences for colors 0-7 >for foreground and background. >The SCO console has extensions in addition to this for colors 0-15. >The SCO console has an extension for changing the blink attribute >bit in the screen memory to high intensity, in respect of a workaround >to a CGA register setting, which is generally emulated on modern >VGA hardware. I know. >If I type ^[[1m^[[H^[[J on an SCO console, the color will not be changed >from the default to the bold values (I just tried it). Very strange (I try it too with different result). There must be ^[[m somewhere, maybe in your prompt. Foreground attributes settings can be canceled only by ^[[m or direct colors settings, not by clearing IN ANY CASE. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 22:12:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA17683 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:12:45 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA17678 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:12:43 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA15734; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:08:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509200508.WAA15734@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:08:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Sep 20, 95 08:38:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 643 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >If I type ^[[1m^[[H^[[J on an SCO console, the color will not be changed > >from the default to the bold values (I just tried it). > > Very strange (I try it too with different result). > There must be ^[[m somewhere, maybe in your prompt. > Foreground attributes settings can be canceled only by ^[[m or > direct colors settings, not by clearing IN ANY CASE. Why does elm turn the screen reverse when I log into my Linux or Sun box and run it from the FreeBSD console, but not from my SCO console? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 22:18:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA17865 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:18:06 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA17860 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:18:04 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA15752; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:10:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509200510.WAA15752@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:10:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: bakul@netcom.com, terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, hsu@cs.hut.fi In-Reply-To: <199509200455.OAA10868@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Sep 20, 95 02:55:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 826 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I don't really care whether I have to add additional unsigned short based > >functions or not, though using wchar_t as a 16 bit unsigned value would > >save a lot of code duplication and kernel bloat. > > You have to add additional u_int16_t based functions to support externally > imposed 16-bit storage formats, and u_int32_t based functions to support > 32-bit storage formats (not to mention u_int36_t based functions to > support 36-bit storage formats :-). I don't know of *any* file system that uses 4 byte characters to store directory entries. I know of two that use 16. 36 bit: I don't have a DEC KL10 or Harris system. Are you saying there is a port in progess? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 22:46:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA18228 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:46:39 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA18211 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:45:57 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA13926 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:43:32 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 20 Sep 95 09:43:31 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA00879; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:39:31 +0400 To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199509200508.WAA15734@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199509200508.WAA15734@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert at Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:08:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:39:31 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: SYSCONS PROBLEM IDENTIFIED Lines: 34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1564 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message <199509200508.WAA15734@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: >> >If I type ^[[1m^[[H^[[J on an SCO console, the color will not be changed >> >from the default to the bold values (I just tried it). >> >> Very strange (I try it too with different result). >> There must be ^[[m somewhere, maybe in your prompt. >> Foreground attributes settings can be canceled only by ^[[m or >> direct colors settings, not by clearing IN ANY CASE. >Why does elm turn the screen reverse when I log into my Linux or Sun >box and run it from the FreeBSD console, but not from my SCO console? It isn't turning attributes off, but (1) "erase with black color" instead of (2) "erase with background color". I.e. Elm can turn reverse on, then attempt to clear screen or end of line. For (1) you got clear screen, for (2) you got reverse screen. Sounds like Elm error, it must turn off highlight before any clearing. Curses works this way. Maybe it is recent SCO addition (erase with black color). I check Xenix box and got the same behaviour like in FreeBSD. Can you check Linux console too? (it attempts to emulate SCO somehow). Advantage of "erase with background color" is that you can quickly fill whole screen with any color without putting lots of damn spaces. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 23:19:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA19645 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:19:14 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA19640 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:19:12 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA05856; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:15:52 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509200615.XAA05856@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: IFS and win95 To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Cc: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu In-Reply-To: <199509192051.NAA10658@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 19, 95 01:51:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 274 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Artisoft (the company I work for) is entering Alpha testing on an > FFS port to Win95 to resolve the drive size, partition size, speed, > and fragmentation issues that VFAT doesn't. > You need to convince them to sell a "the whole server" product.. based on FreeBSD :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Sep 19 23:23:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA20307 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:23:43 -0700 Received: from mpp.minn.net (mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA20287 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:23:39 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA08946; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:23:13 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199509200623.BAA08946@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:23:12 -0500 (CDT) Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509192128.OAA10722@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 19, 95 02:28:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1471 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: [SNIP] > If on the other hand, you are objecting to the need for single entry/exit, > I can justify this in terms of adding kernel multithreading and SMP locks > in such a way as to cause them to "go away" in the Uniprocessor or non > multithreading case. I used to work for Cray Research back when they were working on getting their multithreading kernel working and ready for release. Depending on the function, single entry/exit functions could be a real pain the the ass. For efficiency reasons, we would lock either the entire array, individual elements of the array, or even individual variables in some cases. In some routines, the single entry/exit idea just didn't fly. Either you held the lock for much longer than you needed to, or you wound up having to keep track of which locks you had and then release them on exit. When you have 16 - 64+ processors possibly wating for a lock, you never wanted to keep a lock any longer than needed. A lot of the time it was much easier to code something as follows: XXX_LOCK(); ... if (error_condition) { XXX_UNLOCK(); return (EWHATEVER); } ... XXX_UNLOCK(); Rather than: XXX_LOCK(); have_xxx_lock = 1; ... if (error_condition) { error = EWHATEVER; goto done; } ... XXX_UNLOCK(): have_xxx_lock = 0; done: if (have_xxx_lock) XXX_UNLOCK(): return (error); -- Mike Pritchard mpp@mpp.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 00:58:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA22871 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 00:58:50 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA22863 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 00:58:31 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA17293; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:53:13 +1000 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:53:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509200753.RAA17293@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: why is this not a bug in namei? Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> This is why 4.4BSD-Lite includes a GNU indent template. >Almost, but not quite. It provides a BSD indent template in the KNF >style, although as Bruce has pointed out in the past the indent.pro file >doesn't do a very good job of enforcing the correct style. Here is the .indent.pro and the style guide for 4.4lite2. The style guide is fairly up to date, but the .indent.pro is dated Nov 5 1991 and is totally inadequate for formatting the style guide - the diffs after formatting are as large as the original file, mostly for unimportant reformatting of block comments, but sometimes for breaking the formatting. At the end is my 1993 attempt at fixing .indent.pro. After reformatting with it, the diffs are only 3/4 as large as the original file :-). .indent.pro is also worse than useless without a COMPLETE set of typedefs - indent will break the formatting near any use of the typedefs othewise. My 1993 version has typedefs for 1993. There are many more now. Bruce --- 4.4lite2 .indent.pro --- -bap -br -ce -ci4 -cli0 -d0 -di8 -i8 -ip -l79 -nbc -ncdb -ndj -nei -nfc1 -nlp -npcs -psl -sc -sob --- 4.4lite2 style guide --- /* * Style guide for the 4BSD KNF (Kernel Normal Form). * * @(#)style 1.14 (Berkeley) 4/28/95 */ /* * VERY important single-line comments look like this. */ /* Most single-line comments look like this. */ /* * Multi-line comments look like this. Make them real sentences. Fill * them so they look like real paragraphs. */ /* * Kernel include files come first; normally, you'll need * OR , but not both! includes , * and it's okay to depend on that. */ #include /* Non-local includes in brackets. */ /* If it's a network program, put the network include files next. */ #include #include #include #include #include /* * Then there's a blank line, followed by the /usr include files. * The /usr include files should be sorted! */ #include /* * Global pathnames are defined in /usr/include/paths.h. Pathnames local * to the program go in pathnames.h in the local directory. */ #include /* Then, there's a blank line, and the user include files. */ #include "pathnames.h" /* Local includes in double quotes. */ /* * Macros are capitalized, parenthesized, and should avoid side-effects. * If they are an inline expansion of a function, the function is defined * all in lowercase, the macro has the same name all in uppercase. If the * macro needs more than a single line, use braces. Right-justify the * backslashes, it makes it easier to read. */ #define MACRO(x, y) { \ variable = (x) + (y); \ (y) += 2; \ } /* Enum types are capitalized. */ enum enumtype { ONE, TWO } et; /* * When declaring variables in structures, declare them sorted by use, then * by size, and then by alphabetical order. The first category normally * doesn't apply, but there are exceptions. Each one gets its own line. * Put a tab after the first word, i.e. use "int^Ix;" and "struct^Ifoo *x;". * * Major structures should be declared at the top of the file in which they * are used, or in separate header files, if they are used in multiple * source files. Use of the structures should be by separate declarations * and should be "extern" if they are declared in a header file. */ struct foo { struct foo *next; /* List of active foo */ struct mumble amumble; /* Comment for mumble */ int bar; }; struct foo *foohead; /* Head of global foo list */ /* Make the structure name match the typedef. */ typedef struct _bar { int level; } BAR; /* * ANSI function declarations for private functions (i.e. functions not used * elsewhere) go at the top of the first source module. Use the __P macro * from the include file . Only the kernel has a name associated * with the types, i.e. in the kernel use: * * void function __P((int fd)); * * in user land use: * * void function __P((int)); */ static char *function __P((int, const char *)); static void usage __P((void)); /* * All major routines should have a comment briefly describing what * they do. The comment before the "main" routine should describe * what the program does. */ int main(argc, argv) int argc; char *argv[]; { extern char *optarg; extern int optind; long num; int ch; char *ep; /* * For consistency, getopt should be used to parse options. Options * should be sorted in the getopt call and the switch statement, unless * parts of the switch cascade. Elements in a switch statement that * cascade should have a FALLTHROUGH comment. Numerical arguments * should be checked for accuracy. Code that cannot be reached should * have a NOTREACHED comment. */ while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "abn")) != EOF) switch (ch) { /* Indent the switch. */ case 'a': /* Don't indent the case. */ aflag = 1; /* FALLTHROUGH */ case 'b': bflag = 1; break; case 'n': num = strtol(optarg, &ep, 10); if (num <= 0 || *ep != '\0') err("illegal number -- %s", optarg); break; case '?': default: usage(); /* NOTREACHED */ } argc -= optind; argv += optind; /* * Space after keywords (while, for, return, switch). No braces are * used for control statements with zero or only a single statement. * * Forever loops are done with for's, not while's. */ for (p = buf; *p != '\0'; ++p); for (;;) stmt; /* * Parts of a for loop may be left empty. Don't put declarations * inside blocks unless the routine is unusually complicated. */ for (; cnt < 15; cnt++) { stmt1; stmt2; } /* Second level indents are four spaces. */ while (cnt < 20) z = a + really + long + statment + that + needs + two lines + gets + indented + four + spaces + on + the + second + and + subsequent + lines. /* * Closing and opening braces go on the same line as the else. * Don't add braces that aren't necessary. */ if (test) stmt; else if (bar) { stmt; stmt; } else stmt; /* No spaces after function names. */ if (error = function(a1, a2)) exit(error); /* * Unary operators don't require spaces, binary operators do. Don't * use parenthesis unless they're required for precedence, or the * statement is really confusing without them. */ a = b->c[0] + ~d == (e || f) || g && h ? i : j >> 1; k = !(l & FLAGS); /* * Exits should be 0 on success, and 1 on failure. Don't denote * all the possible exit points, using the integers 1 through 300. */ exit(0); /* Avoid obvious comments such as "Exit 0 on success." */ } /* * If a function type is declared, it should be on a line * by itself preceeding the function. */ static char * function(a1, a2, fl, a4) int a1, a2, a4; /* Declare ints, too, don't default them. */ float fl; /* List in order declared, as much as possible. */ { /* * When declaring variables in functions declare them sorted by size, * then in alphabetical order; multiple ones per line are okay. Old * style function declarations can go on the same line. ANSI style * function declarations should go in the include file "extern.h". * If a line overflows reuse the type keyword. * * DO NOT initialize variables in the declarations. */ extern u_char one; extern char two; struct foo three, *four; double five; int *six, seven, eight(); char *nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen; char *overflow __P((void)); void *mymalloc __P((u_int)); /* * Casts and sizeof's are not followed by a space. NULL is any * pointer type, and doesn't need to be cast, so use NULL instead * of (struct foo *)0 or (struct foo *)NULL. Also, test pointers * against NULL, i.e. use: * * (p = f()) == NULL * not: * !(p = f()) * * Don't use '!' for tests unless it's a boolean, e.g. use * "if (*p == '\0')", not "if (!*p)". * * Routines returning void * should not have their return values cast * to any pointer type. * * Use err/warn(3), don't roll your own! */ if ((four = malloc(sizeof(struct foo))) == NULL) err(1, NULL); if ((six = (int *)overflow()) == NULL) errx(1, "Number overflowed."); return (eight); } /* * Don't use ANSI function declarations unless you absolutely have too, * i.e. you're declaring functions with variable numbers of arguments. * * ANSI function return values and braces look like regular functions. */ int function(int a1, int a2) { ... } /* Variable numbers of arguments should look like this. */ #if __STDC__ #include #else #include #endif void #if __STDC__ vaf(const char *fmt, ...) #else vaf(fmt, va_alist) char *fmt; va_dcl #endif { va_list ap; #if __STDC__ va_start(ap, fmt); #else va_start(ap); #endif STUFF; va_end(ap); /* No return needed for void functions. */ } static void usage() { /* Insert an empty line if the function has no local variables. */ /* * Use printf(3), not fputs/puts/putchar/whatever, it's faster and * usually cleaner, not to mention avoiding stupid bugs. * * Usage statements should look like the manual pages. Options w/o * operands come first, in alphabetical order inside a single set of * braces. Followed by options with operands, in alphabetical order, * each in braces. Followed by required arguments in the order they * are specified, followed by optional arguments in the order they * are specified. A bar ('|') separates either/or options/arguments, * and multiple options/arguments which are specified together are * placed in a single set of braces. * * "usage: f [-ade] [-b b_arg] [-m m_arg] req1 req2 [opt1 [opt2]]\n" * "usage: f [-a | -b] [-c [-de] [-n number]]\n" */ (void)fprintf(stderr, "usage: f [-ab]\n"); exit(1); } --- my ,indent.pro --- -TBitSetTmp -TDBM -TDIR -TFix16_peh -TFix24_peh -TFix32_peh -TFix48_peh -TFix_peh -TGPT -TIntTmp -TLLattrib -TLLtoken -TPix -TProtoHook -TRatTmp -TSGTTY -TSeqNum -TStrTmp -TXCHAR -T_Fix -T__sFILE -T__sighandler_4_3_t -T__sighandler_t -T_code -T_dirdesc -T_ftsent -T_physadr -T_quad -T_uquad -T_vsIoAddr -T_vsStats -T_vs_box -T_vs_cursor -T_vs_event -Tbitstr_t -Tboolean_t -Tcaddr_t -Tcbool -Tcc_t -Tclock_t -Tclockframe -Tcomp_t -Tcomplex -Tdaddr_t -Tdb -Tdb_addr_t -Tdb_expr_t -Tdb_regs_t -Tdes_block -Tdev_pager_t -Tdev_t -Tfd_mask -Tfd_set -Tfhandle_t -Tfixpt_t -Tfpos_t -Tfsid_t -Tgid_t -Tino_t -Tint16 -Tint32 -Tjmp_buf -Tkey_t -Tlabel_t -Tllinsert -Tlock_data_t -Tlock_t -Tmode_t -Tn_long -Tn_short -Tn_time -Tnetobj -Tnew_handler_t -Tnfstype -Tnfsv2fh_t -Tnlink_t -Toff_t -Tone_arg_error_handler_t -Tpd_entry_t -Tpid_t -Tpmap_statistics_t -Tpmap_t -Tpt_entry_t -Tptrdiff_t -Tpv_entry -Tqaddr_t -Tqhdr -Tqueue_chain_t -Tqueue_entry_t -Tqueue_head_t -Tqueue_t -Tregexp -Tsegsz_t -TRefNum -Tsig_t -Tsigjmp_buf -Tsigset_t -Tsimple_lock_data_t -Tsimple_lock_t -Tsize_t -Tspeed_t -Tssize_t -Tsw_blk_t -Tsw_bm_t -Tsw_pager_t -Tswblk_t -Ttcflag_t -Ttcp_seq -Ttime_t -Ttimeout_func_t -Ttpr_t -Ttwo_arg_error_handler_t -Tu_char -Tu_int -Tu_int32 -Tu_long -Tu_short -Tuid_t -Tuint16 -Tuint32 -Tushort -Tva_list -Tvm_inherit_t -Tvm_map_entry_t -Tvm_map_object_t -Tvm_map_t -Tvm_object_hash_entry_t -Tvm_object_t -Tvm_offset_t -Tvm_page_t -Tvm_pager_t -Tvm_prot_t -Tvm_size_t -Tvm_statistics_data_t -Tvm_statistics_t -Tvn_pager_t -TvsIoAddrAddr -Twchar_t -Txdrproc_t -bad -bap -nbbb -nbc -br -c33 -cd33 -cdb -ce -ci4 -cli0 -d0 -di8 -ndj -ei -nfc1 -i8 -ip -l79 -lc77 -lp -npcs -psl -sc -nsob -nv --- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 01:43:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA24553 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:43:30 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@[194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA24546 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:43:16 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA03843 for Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:43:38 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199509200843.KAA03843@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Call for Julian Stacey To: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers' List) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:43:36 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 757 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello. Sorry to use the whole list for this ... Julian Stacey: any e-mail to you keeps bouncing: ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- (transient failure) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... Deferred: Connection timed out wi th vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de. Warning: message still undelivered after 3 days Will keep trying until message is 4 weeks, 2 days old Then it comes back after 4 days :( Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 01:59:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA25164 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:59:47 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA25112 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 01:58:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA27104; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:47:31 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199509200847.OAA27104@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:47:30 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: terry@lambert.org, peter@taronga.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <24258.811572803@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 19, 95 09:53:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 742 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > It has been my experience that the minimal resources required for X are > > > such that even if every character required a callback the slowest component > > > in the system is still the nut holding the keyboard. > > > > Experience SCO Open DeskTop. > > Except we always referred to it as Open Death Trap.. > > :-) It's a real trap ! :-( The most interesting thing is that their ODT 5 had lost the compatibility with ODT 3 ! :-) At least it hangs deadly when running some programs from old SCO from any user. If this system is "Business Critical" then FreeBSD can be named "Business Super-Critical" ! ;-) Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 02:22:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA26012 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:22:30 -0700 Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA26002 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:22:21 -0700 Received: by disperse.demon.co.uk id ab23056; 20 Sep 95 6:36 +0100 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa20468; 20 Sep 95 0:41 +0100 Received: from bagpuss.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa28965; 20 Sep 95 0:38 +0100 Received: (karl@localhost) by bagpuss.demon.co.uk (3.1/3.1) id PAA15358; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:43:59 +0100 From: Karl Strickland Message-Id: <199509191443.PAA15358@bagpuss.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: Nate Williams Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:43:58 +0100 (BST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190433.WAA24091@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 18, 95 10:33:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2127 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This "anti-goto-political-correctness-bullshit" has to go. Anyone who > > thinks a for loop generates prettier assembly than an label/if/goto > > had better read more compiler output. > > Huh? I am in *complete* agreement with David here. I have looked at > *thousands* if not *millions* of lines of code in my years in > programming. Although there are times when gotos are necessary AND they > improve readability, they are the exception rather than the rule. When I think, that like other tools, goto's have their place. When something else is better, like a for loop or a while loop, goto is bad news. But goto can be good news for exiting functions under exceptional circumstances, or breaking out of >1 loop - much better than a chain of if() break; statements IMHO. > I see two gotos in a single function it is my opinion that the author > has not spent the time to write the code in a readable manner. Now, > there may be a completely valid reason for it, but it will take a lot > for me to believe that. :) > > A rule enforced in all software houses I've worked in. "Programmers who > use gotos will be publically ridiculed" If anyone laughed at me based on a rule like this, I'd think it said more about them than about me. There are plenty of garbage rules in software houses laid down by managers who know no better. I cannot take rules like that seriously. > > A goto is a tool for handling an exceptional conditions. And that's > > where goto's are use in my code. > > > > The alternative is negative comparison code blocks, ie: > > > > if( !(error = foo()) { > > [real code] > > } else { > > [error code] > > } > > I prefer this to using gotos simply because my mind is tuned for > parentheses, not goto statements. It's a matter of what you are used to > seeing. All a question of taste :-) -- ------------------------------------------+----------------------------------- Mailed using ELM on FreeBSD | Karl Strickland PGP 2.3a Public Key Available. | Internet: karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk | From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 03:06:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA27092 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 03:06:26 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA27083 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 03:06:19 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA24960 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 03:05:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA04695 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 03:07:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199509201007.DAA04695@corbin.Root.COM> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Pentium Pro From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 03:07:24 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk For those that haven't heard... -DG ------- Forwarded Message Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.192.3]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA21415 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:21:57 -0700 Received: from localhost by ormail.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0svADW-000Ur1a; Tue, 19 Sep 95 14:28 PDT Received: by ormail.intel.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0svACu-000Uoda; Tue, 19 Sep 95 14:28 PDT Sender: owner-p6info Received: from ormail.intel.com by ormail.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0svACt-000UmjC; Tue, 19 Sep 95 14:27 PDT Received: from www.jf.intel.com by ormail.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0svACs-000UmGC; Tue, 19 Sep 95 14:27 PDT Received: by www.jf.intel.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0svACJ-000OVYC; Tue, 19 Sep 95 14:27 PDT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 95 14:27 PDT From: Clif_G_Purkiser@ccm.sc.intel.com To: p6info@mailbag.intel.com Subject: INTEL'S NEXT-GENERATION PROCESSOR RECEIVES FORMAL NAME Sender: owner-p6info@mailbag.intel.com Precedence: bulk Intel Corporation today announced that "Pentium(r) Pro processor" is the name for its next-generation microprocessor, previously code-named P6. The 5.5 million transistor device will be introduced in the fourth quarter of this calendar year, and will be targeted at workstation and high-end desktop systems,, as well as cost-effective servers. The Pentium Pro processor will deliver the highest level of performance on 32-bit software for the Intel architecture. The Pentium Pro processor is the first product of a parallel engineering effort undertaken by Intel in the early 1990s. Its unique Dynamic Execution engine was conceived when today's Pentium processor was still a software simulation. The compressed design cycles of new generations of chips have resulted in the delivery of some of the most powerful, low-cost microprocessors for a widening spectrum of uses. For example, Intel was recently selected by the U.S. Department of Energy to build a 9,000-processor computer based on the Pentium Pro processor that will deliver 10 times the performance of today's fastest supercomputers. For more information on the Pentium Pro processor visit Intel's home page on the World Wide Web at URL http://www.intel.com/. Coming soon, those visiting Intel's web site will have the opportunity to create a 3D image rendered on a Pentium Pro processor-based web server located in Oregon. We will keep subscribers to this list updated on the availability of this software. ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 03:36:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA28292 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 03:36:07 -0700 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA28283 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 03:35:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA09696 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 04:34:51 -0600 Message-Id: <199509201034.EAA09696@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Steve Passe To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: DDD for 2.1/2.2 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 04:34:50 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have built and placed a statically linked (motif) version of DDD on freebsd.cdrom.com for 2.1.0. Chuck Robey has it running on 2.2 with 2.1 compat libs. you can find it in: freebsd.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ddd-2.1.0.README freebsd.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ddd-2.1.0.tar.gz -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 04:59:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA00404 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 04:59:06 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA00386 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 04:59:01 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id EAA04965; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 04:59:24 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 04:59:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199509201159.EAA04965@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ports startup scripts From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (Note crosspost of hackers and ports -- please reply to ports only.) Well, now that Jordan started the fire and Paul has sprayed some gasoline onto it, let's see if we can resolve this one last time. :) I assume we all agree that we want something like for script in ${local_startup}/*.sh; do [ -x ${script} ] && ${script} start done to be run from /etc/rc. The question is, where do we want that "local_startup" directory to be? As I re-read the archive of the previous discussion, here are the proposals and arguments for/against them: (1) /etc/rc.d - Ports shouldn't touch anything in the root filesystem + Central location, easy to maintain + Per-machine configuration possible even if /usr/local is NFS shared (2) /usr/local/etc/rc.d - Shouldn't fix certain location - If /usr/local is NFS shared, per-machine configuration is cumbersome (3) Same as (2), but use the regular ${PREFIX} (defined as /usr/local in bsd.port.mk) - X ports (which have PREFIX=${X11BASE}) have no way to know where this tree is - Even if they do, putting things in two trees with user-configurable locations requires major hacking of bsd.port.mk and pkg_* - Same NFS problem - PREFIX now defined in two locations (bsd.port.mk and sysconfig) (4) Same as (3), but use the current ${PREFIX} (usually /usr/local or /usr/X11R6) - Same NFS problem - PREFIX and X11BASE now defined in two locations (bsd.port.mk and sysconfig) My opinion is that due to the first reasons on their respective lists, options (2) and (3) are infeasible. I don't have any problem with ports touching /etc (that directory is hardly sacred, and is one of the things you need to backup during upgrades anyway) but since there seems to be a large contingent of people who feel strongly against it, I think it's wise to avoid option (1) too. That leaves option (4). We can deal with multiple startup dirs easily, just a couple more lines of shell programming. And to alleviate the second problem, I propose the following: @ Define LOCAL_PREFIX and X11BASE in /etc/sysconfig @ In /etc/rc, add a line that generates a file somewhere in /var (say, /var/run/paths) with the contents: ===== # Do not edit this file! Look at /etc/sysconfig on how to change these. LOCAL_PREFIX=/usr/local X11BASE=/usr/X11R6 ===== (The directory names are just examples, mind you.) @ Remove the lines that define X11BASE and PREFIX from *.mk files (bsd.port.mk defines both, sys.mk defines X11BASE) and replace them with ".include /var/run/paths" (need to change "=" to "?=" but that can be easily hacked) and some code to put them in PREFIX correctly So, if the user wants to change the "default" location of the "local" tree or the X tree, he can just edit /etc/sysconfig. The porters should just make sure that the script for the port "" has a name ".sh" and it goes to ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d. For the scripts themselves -- right now it's not necessary, but why don't we make it a guideline to try to make it understand arguments "start" and "stop", it may be useful in the future. May I have your comments, ladies and gentlemen? Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 07:59:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA04771 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 07:59:19 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA04752 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 07:59:05 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA00784; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:53:12 +1000 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:53:12 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509201453.AAA00784@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >to be run from /etc/rc. The question is, where do we want that >"local_startup" directory to be? Are symlinks to a variable location too ugly/unmanageable? Double links could be used as both as documentation and to avoid moving directories out of the way. E.g., for the current problem: - /etc/rc always references /links/local_startup - /links/local_startup is a link to either /etc/rc.d or /usr/local/etc/rc.d, depending on locally best solutions to the configuration problems mentioned in (1)-(2): >(1) /etc/rc.d > - Ports shouldn't touch anything in the root filesystem > + Central location, easy to maintain > + Per-machine configuration possible even if /usr/local is NFS shared >(2) /usr/local/etc/rc.d > - Shouldn't fix certain location > - If /usr/local is NFS shared, per-machine configuration is cumbersome >(3) Same as (2), but use the regular ${PREFIX} (defined as /usr/local > in bsd.port.mk) Ideally, all prefixes and paths should be found in one place. /links would be a reasonably dynamic place - use readlink() to look it up and standard utilities to manipulate it. The links could be followed directly or cached by programs. E.g., `make' could look up /links/bshell (which would normally point to /bin/sh) once and use the result several times. >That leaves option (4). We can deal with multiple startup dirs >easily, just a couple more lines of shell programming. And to >alleviate the second problem, I propose the following: > @ Define LOCAL_PREFIX and X11BASE in /etc/sysconfig > @ In /etc/rc, add a line that generates a file somewhere in /var > (say, /var/run/paths) with the contents: >... readlink() isn't as convenient an interface for some purposes as a list of variables, but this list could be created easily by `ls -l /links | sed ... | grep ...' >/var/run/paths. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 08:35:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA05828 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:35:18 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA05760 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:34:11 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA04802 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:33:01 -0400 From: A boy and his worm gear Message-Id: <199509201533.LAA04802@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: This doesn't seem right... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:32:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1315 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Today I tried doing a make world on FreeBSD-current and after some time, it fell over while building libg++ complaining that it didn't know how to build /usr/destdir/usr/lib/c++rt0.o. (I have DESTDIR set to /usr/destdir; I don't want to clobber my existing system right away). Sure enough, /usr/src/gnu/lib/libg++/Makefile says: CPLUSPLUSLIB= 1 # include c++rt0.o for constructors And /usr/share/mk/bsd.lib.mk says: .if defined(CPLUSPLUSLIB) && !make(clean) && !make(cleandir) SOBJS+= ${DESTDIR}/usr/lib/c++rt0.o .endif Fair enough. But /usr/src/Makefile, the 'libraries' target tries to build the GNU libraries _before_ it tries to make ${.CURDIR}/lib/csu/i386, which is where crt0.o and c++rt0.o live. Has anyone else noticed this, or am I just doing something wrong? -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~ "Welcome to All Things BSDish! If it's not BSDish, it's crap!" ~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 09:50:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA19974 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:50:44 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA19954 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:50:35 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id SAA14640 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:49:40 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.11/8.6.12) id SAA00356 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:25:57 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199509201625.SAA00356@knobel.gun.de> Subject: FreeBSD-stable: kernel: execve: failed to allocate string space To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:25:57 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1848 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! Have a 2.0.5 Release system with a -stable kernel. Was just unpacking XFree86 the following way: foreach i *.tgz tar xvpfC $i /usr & end ;-)) Then I got the following messages: execve: failed to allocate string space execve: failed to allocate string space Here is my kernel: System memory is 32 MB. machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident KNOBEL maxusers 10 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=5" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options GATEWAY config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller ahc0 controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xcc000 vector edintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's Any idea ? Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm You have lpd and need an intelligent print filter ?!! Ok, this might help: "apsfilter ... irgendwie clever" ftp it from ------> ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/Incoming/aps-491.tgz From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 10:14:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA20359 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:14:24 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA20354 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:14:20 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01075; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:11:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509201711.KAA01075@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: mpp@mpp.minn.net (Mike Pritchard) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:11:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509200623.BAA08946@mpp.minn.net> from "Mike Pritchard" at Sep 20, 95 01:23:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4295 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... order edited for purposes of discussion ... ] [ ... multithreading kernels ... ] > XXX_LOCK(); > ... > if (error_condition) { > XXX_UNLOCK(); > return (EWHATEVER); > } > ... > XXX_UNLOCK(); > > Rather than: > > XXX_LOCK(); > have_xxx_lock = 1; > ... > if (error_condition) { > error = EWHATEVER; > goto done; > } > ... > XXX_UNLOCK(): > have_xxx_lock = 0; > done: > if (have_xxx_lock) > XXX_UNLOCK(): > return (error); Why not: XXX_LOCK(); ... if (error_condition) { error = EWHATEVER; goto err_with_lock_held; } ... err_with_lock_held: XXX_UNLOCK(): err: return (error); Or better yet: XXX_LOCK(); ... if (error_condition) { error = EWHATEVER; } else { ... } XXX_UNLOCK(): err: return (error); I don't understand the need for the local lock state variable in your second example. > I used to work for Cray Research back when they were working on > getting their multithreading kernel working and ready for release. > Depending on the function, single entry/exit functions could be a real > pain the the ass. For efficiency reasons, we would lock either the > entire array, individual elements of the array, or even individual > variables in some cases. Yes. This is variable granularity locking. Typically it applies to memory mapped devices, interrupt handler instances, and global buffers. The common mistake with this schema is that multithreading is not multiprocessing, and the lock implementation generally does not include computation of transitive closure over the directed graph, so you end up with deadly-embrace deadlocks inherent in the use of the lock hierarchy by multple processors. The global buffer case is, in most implementations, a design flaw. The SVR4/Solaris kernel and slab allocator have this flaw, in that they must go to a global mutex in order to allocate memory. The Sequent kernel bypasses this by using a zone allocator and defining per processor zones. Only when a zone needs refilled from the global memory pool (high water mark) or the zone usage has decreased far enough that the zone is overutilizing resources (low water mark) is a global mutex held to refill/drain the zone's free page pool. This is described in some detail in a book that I recently completed a techinical review on for Prentice Hall (earlier this year): "UNIX Internals: the new frontier" Uresh Vahalia ISBN 0-13-101908-2 Prentice Hall, 1995 A good (and large) book. It actually compares various aspects of different UNIX implementations. Like memory allocation policy, file system implementation, paging, threading, etc.. As far as I know, it's the only book on comparative UNIX architecture that exists. > In some routines, the single entry/exit idea just didn't fly. Either > you held the lock for much longer than you needed to, I'd argue that this was an error in judgement in the programmer assigning interface boundries... Only in the rarest of cases should a lock be held over a function call boundry (pushing a stack frame on a SPARC is not a speedy operation). Allocation and deallocation of the locks themselves and system initialization are the only such cases that spring immediately to mind. > or you wound up having to keep track of which locks you had > and then release them on exit. I'd argue that this was an error in the implementation of the lock manager. Having the lock hierarchy implied by stack unwind state is an error in design of a hierarchical lock management system (or simply an error, when using a non-hierarchical lock management system to imply hierarchy). It *must* be possible to traverse the directed hierarchy graph to compute transitive closure to implement deadlock avoidance. > When you have 16 - 64+ processors possibly wating for a lock, you never > wanted to keep a lock any longer than needed. Agreed. When I was working on the file system and the system open file table management in the SMP version of SVR4, I faced many of these same issues. I am not a novice. Unfortunately, by the time I got to that area, the lock model was already broken and being held in place with red tape. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 10:18:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA20534 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:18:49 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA20528 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:18:46 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01096; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:17:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509201717.KAA01096@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Pentium Pro To: davidg@root.com Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:17:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509201007.DAA04695@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Sep 20, 95 03:07:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 425 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > For example, Intel was recently selected by the U.S. Department of > Energy to build a 9,000-processor computer based on the Pentium Pro > processor that will deliver 10 times the performance of today's > fastest supercomputers. Assuming all problems lend themselves to parallelism. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 10:24:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA20667 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:24:59 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA20662 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:24:46 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01118; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:22:25 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509201722.KAA01118@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:22:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509201159.EAA04965@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Sep 20, 95 04:59:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1370 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > As I re-read the archive of the previous discussion, here are the > proposals and arguments for/against them: > > (1) /etc/rc.d > > - Ports shouldn't touch anything in the root filesystem > + Central location, easy to maintain > + Per-machine configuration possible even if /usr/local is NFS shared [ ... ] > My opinion is that due to the first reasons on their respective lists, > options (2) and (3) are infeasible. I don't have any problem with > ports touching /etc (that directory is hardly sacred, and is one of > the things you need to backup during upgrades anyway) but since there > seems to be a large contingent of people who feel strongly against it, > I think it's wise to avoid option (1) too. Actually, I have no problem with ports touching /etc. The idea of a read-only root implies system templating. Well, installed software would then be installed on all systems that are derived from a particular template (via diskless or dataless mount). The only issue not resolved by this is the idea of that read-only mount being done from a CDROM (ie: the boot from CD case). For drop-in install of package requiring daemons or overall system state, a hybrid of options (1) and (2) would seem the best bet. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 11:52:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA23257 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:52:20 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA23252 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:52:13 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id MAA15080 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:52:05 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:52:05 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509201852.MAA15080@trout.sri.MT.net> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Firewalling one interface using IPFW? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is it possible to setup packet filtering on one interface w/out affect the rest of the network interfaces? Basically, my current setup is I've got a SunOS box running MorningStar's PPP implemenation (very nice) which two modem connections. The first connection is my full-time network connection. This connection allows any connection from certain 'trusted' machines/networks, filters out all other incoming ftp/telnet connections, dis-allows all UDP information in/out. This works very well for this connection. However, I also use the same box for generic incoming PPP connections for my co-worker, who dials in from home. With this connection *any* sort of traffic is allowed. We're moving away from the Sun and installing a FreeBSD PC to handle all of our network traffic, so it will be our main DNS box, PPP server, router, the whole works. This is a much better (and cheaper) solution than buying a Cisco or other router, since this box does it all and we can leave it in the corner and never worry about it every again (hopefully). In any case, we'd like to be able to be able to provide the same functionality in FreeBSD as we currently have with MorningStar w/regards to packet filtering. The current PPP implementation seems to have all of the other features of MorningStar, so we're only missing the filtering capability. We will have at least 2 incoming and 1 outgoing PPP connections, so the solution must not be too much of a resource hog, plus we may be adding another 1-2 PPP connections depending on our job search from Montana hires. Clues or hints would be appreciated, Thanks! Nate ps. We are attempting to get MorningStar to do a FreeBSD product, but given the current PPP implementation in FreeBSD it may be a hard-sell. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 13:10:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA25390 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:10:32 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA25380 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:10:26 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA19268 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:10:18 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA23381 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:10:18 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA10977 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:28:18 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509201928.VAA10977@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: xntpd (or kernel) timekeeping problem? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:28:18 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509190548.PAA27383@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Sep 19, 95 03:48:36 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 728 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > >TIMER_FREQ should once and forever be banned from all source files and > >moved out into a header file. (isa.h?) > > isa/timerreg.h. All except the first 4 defines in timmerreg.h should > actually be in ic/i8253.h. Who's volunteering? I think you need an agrep to find all the locations where this frequency has been defined throughout the source tree. Note that the several definitions used to differ slightly. :-) So 880 Hz on syscons might differ from 880 Hz on pcvt and from 880 Hz on pcaudio (actually not, both done by Søren :-) and from ... :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 13:10:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA25406 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:10:38 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA25382 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:10:27 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA19260; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:10:15 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA23379; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:10:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA10702; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:00:52 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509201900.VAA10702@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: man page writing To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:00:52 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <1130.811557402@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Sep 20, 95 01:36:42 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 373 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Gary Palmer wrote: > > Don't suppose someone has a tutorial on how to use nroff -man macros > to write & format manpages? :-) -man or -doc? (the latter being what 4.4BSD is using) In case of -doc, RTFM mdoc.samples(7) :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 13:11:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA25456 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:11:12 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA25436 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:10:59 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA19264; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:10:17 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA23380; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:10:16 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA11386; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:06:59 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509202006.WAA11386@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Call for Julian Stacey To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:06:58 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199509200843.KAA03843@strider.ibenet.it> from "Piero Serini" at Sep 20, 95 10:43:36 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 495 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Piero Serini wrote: > > Sorry to use the whole list for this ... > > Julian Stacey: any e-mail to you keeps bouncing: > > ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- > (transient failure) His setup is bogus. He is his own most-preferable MX, and this it useless for a dialup-site. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 13:13:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA25656 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:13:31 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA25640 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:13:20 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA19183; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:09:49 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA23368; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:09:44 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA10535; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:48:32 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509201848.UAA10535@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Enhancement to dd (conv=sparse) To: pascal@zuo.dec.com Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:48:31 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9509122056.AA28693@tempx.zuo.dec.com.zuo.dec.com> from "Pascal Pederiva" at Sep 12, 95 10:56:37 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 381 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Pascal Pederiva wrote: > > here are the diffs of /usr/src/bin/dd ( 2.1.0-950726-SNAP ) to > add an option to dd, which creates sparse files. More than one week ago. No opinions? No objections? No flames? Should i integrate it? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 13:28:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26115 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:28:59 -0700 Received: from mail1.access.digex.net (mail1.access.digex.net [205.197.247.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26110 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:28:56 -0700 Received: from ugen (ugen-tr.worldbank.org [138.220.101.58]) by mail1.access.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA08312; for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:28:49 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 16:28:31 PDT From: "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" Subject: RE: Firewalling one interface using IPFW? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Nate Williams X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As far as i remember my own code( heh, i already forgot it for good).. you have option "via" or "at" which both allow to set all the firewalls for one interface only. Other interfaces would not be affected by the permissions... --Ugen From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 13:31:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26255 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:31:49 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26250 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:31:46 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA07012; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:28:14 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509202028.NAA07012@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Enhancement to dd (conv=sparse) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pascal@zuo.dec.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509201848.UAA10535@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 20, 95 08:48:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 569 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk yes I have this patch sitting here too I was thinking of adding it.. be my guest.. it looks ok, (I forget if it had a man-page update as well) julian > > As Pascal Pederiva wrote: > > > > here are the diffs of /usr/src/bin/dd ( 2.1.0-950726-SNAP ) to > > add an option to dd, which creates sparse files. > > More than one week ago. No opinions? No objections? No flames? > > Should i integrate it? > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 13:43:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26763 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:43:25 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26756 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:43:22 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA07047; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:43:13 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509202043.NAA07047@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509201159.EAA04965@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Sep 20, 95 04:59:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1205 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > (4) Same as (3), but use the current ${PREFIX} (usually /usr/local or > /usr/X11R6) > > - Same NFS problem > - PREFIX and X11BASE now defined in two locations (bsd.port.mk and > sysconfig) > > My opinion is that due to the first reasons on their respective lists, > options (2) and (3) are infeasible. I don't have any problem with > ports touching /etc (that directory is hardly sacred, and is one of > the things you need to backup during upgrades anyway) but since there > seems to be a large contingent of people who feel strongly against it, > I think it's wise to avoid option (1) too. > > That leaves option (4). We can deal with multiple startup dirs > easily, just a couple more lines of shell programming. And to > alleviate the second problem, I propose the following: > > @ Define LOCAL_PREFIX and X11BASE in /etc/sysconfig define RCLIST in /etc/sysconfig RCLIST= ${LOCAL_PREFIX}/etc/rc.d ${X11BASE}/etc/rc.d for PATH in $RCLIST do for FILE in $PATH/*.sh do if [ -x $FILE ] then sh -c $FILE start fi done done The problem with this is you cannot interleave operations.. ALL scripts in X11BASE are executed after ALL scripts in LOCAL_PREFIX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 14:17:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA28387 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:17:32 -0700 Received: from aristotle.algonet.se (aristotle.algonet.se [193.12.207.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA28379 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:17:24 -0700 Received: from sophocles. (mal@sophocles.algonet.se [193.12.207.10]) by aristotle.algonet.se (8.6.9/hdw.1.0) with SMTP id XAA06747 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:16:40 +0200 Received: by sophocles. (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA07205; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:17:03 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:17:03 +0200 From: mal@aristotle.algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Message-Id: <9509202117.AA07205@sophocles.> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: What scsi disk to buy (Quantum capella or grand prix or other) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This really isn't a FreeBSD question (I will use it for FreeBSD though), but there seem to be people with lots of experience on this list... The capella 2 gig will cost me around $800 and the grand prix 4 gig around $1100. (This is in Sweden.) Are those disks temperature/cooling sensitive? I have a fujitsu 2694esa 1 gig now and it gets hot as hell on warm days. I would like to get a disk I can mount in my midi tower box without frying it.. Besides that, reliability and performance are the main issues. I don't really need 4 gig right now, but the price difference is to small to care very much about. (2 gigs extra for $300 seems cheap even if you don't need it :-) Thanks, _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 14:59:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA01377 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:59:24 -0700 Received: from mpp.minn.net (mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01360 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:59:17 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA12896; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:58:45 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199509202158.QAA12896@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:58:44 -0500 (CDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509201711.KAA01075@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 20, 95 10:11:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1243 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > Why not: > > XXX_LOCK(); > ... > if (error_condition) { > error = EWHATEVER; > goto err_with_lock_held; > } > ... > err_with_lock_held: > XXX_UNLOCK(): > err: > return (error); > > Or better yet: > > XXX_LOCK(); > ... > if (error_condition) { > error = EWHATEVER; > } else { > ... > } > XXX_UNLOCK(): > err: > return (error); > > I don't understand the need for the local lock state variable in your > second example. My previous example was very simplistic. Having to lock multiple objects during a function wasn't not uncommon. E.g. XXX_LOCK(); ... if (error_condition) { XXX_UNLOCK(); return (EWHATEVER); } ... XXX_UNLOCK(); ... if (error_condition2) return (EHWATEVER); ... YYY_LOCK(); ... if (error_condition2) { YYY_UNLOCK(); return (EWHATEVER); } ... YYY_UNLOCK(); return (0); In the above example, with gotos you would need 4 exit points: 1 for an exit without any error. And one each for each of the 3 error conditions, since they all have different requirements. 2 of them have different locks, and 1 has no locks at all. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@mpp.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 15:50:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA05968 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:50:48 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA05955 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:50:44 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7.Beta.14/8.7.Beta.14) with ESMTP id SAA09735; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id SAA12805; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:50:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Julian Elischer cc: Satoshi Asami , ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts In-Reply-To: <199509202043.NAA07047@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'd really apreciate one thing. I've noticed an extreme and virulent allergy some folks have to doing the startup tasks ala SVR4 style. I do know that style. Can one of you tell me if there's any strong reason against doing things in that mode, other than simple prejudice? I'm perfectly willing to take an argument in either direction, but I have seen lots of attacks on the SVR4 method, that often end up on a shaggy dog story about some 3rd system. I don't understand this, and I'd really like to. BTW, I'm not talking about SVR4 init, or inittab, just the system of rc.0, rc.1, etc, and the S and K files, for startup and shutdown. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 16:04:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA07481 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:04:32 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA07461 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:04:28 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA01780; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:01:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509202301.QAA01780@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Coding style ( was Re: why is this not a bug in namei?) To: mpp@mpp.minn.net (Mike Pritchard) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:01:26 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, davidg@root.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509202158.QAA12896@mpp.minn.net> from "Mike Pritchard" at Sep 20, 95 04:58:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2720 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My previous example was very simplistic. Having to lock multiple objects > during a function wasn't not uncommon. > E.g. > > XXX_LOCK(); > ... > if (error_condition) { > XXX_UNLOCK(); > return (EWHATEVER); > } > ... > XXX_UNLOCK(); > ... > if (error_condition2) > return (EHWATEVER); > ... > YYY_LOCK(); > ... > if (error_condition2) { > YYY_UNLOCK(); > return (EWHATEVER); > } > ... > YYY_UNLOCK(); > return (0); > > In the above example, with gotos you would need 4 exit points: 1 for > an exit without any error. And one each for each of the 3 error > conditions, since they all have different requirements. 2 of them have > different locks, and 1 has no locks at all. I think we are getting confused between function single entry/exit and lock metastate single threading. XXX_LOCK(); ... if (error_condition) { err = EWHATEVER; goto error; } ... XXX_UNLOCK(); ... if (error_condition2) { err = EHWATEVER; goto error; } ... YYY_LOCK(); ... if (error_condition2) { err = EWHATEVER; } else { ... } YYY_UNLOCK(); error: return( err); Again, this one leads to case simplification to simply: XXX_LOCK(); ... if (!error_condition) { ... } XXX_UNLOCK(); if (!error_condition) { ... if (error_condition2) { err = EHWATEVER; } else { ... YYY_LOCK(); ... if (error_condition2) { err = EWHATEVER; } else { ... } YYY_UNLOCK(); } } else { err = EWHATEVER; } return( err); I think for a "goto" example, you'll need a cyclic graph. And then I will defend the existance of the goto. 8-). Cyclic graphs exist in the code; they just aren't very common. Directory reaversal in ufs_vnops.c:ufs_rename() is one good example, though they are hidden by a pretty much bogus division of lookup() into lookup() and relookup() (namei/lookup/relookup are simply some of the worst code in the file system code path). The current cycles in vfs_syscalls.c:mount() (update/nonupdate cases) and vfs_syscalls.c:open(), rename(), etc. are caused by a flag omission and a 6 line addition being missing from in 4 cases, and a bad job of code overloading of not-very-common code in 3 others. It's very hard to find an example that I would mung up with goto's in the current code (I've added 4 "bogus_namei:" labels with one goto each in 4 different functions, each XXX commented for future cleanup when namei() is fixed. They are not intended as permanent features). Certainly, I object to the "update:" and "out:" labels in mount() much more. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 16:05:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA07822 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:05:56 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA07809 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:05:52 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA01795; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:03:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509202303.QAA01795@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:03:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Sep 20, 95 06:50:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 519 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'd really apreciate one thing. I've noticed an extreme and virulent > allergy some folks have to doing the startup tasks ala SVR4 style. I do > know that style. Can one of you tell me if there's any strong reason > against doing things in that mode, other than simple prejudice? It requires the implementation of run levels. I personally *don't* find it objectionable. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 16:54:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA15463 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:54:35 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA15453 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:54:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA01103 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:38:36 +0100 To: "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Nate Williams Subject: Re: Firewalling one interface using IPFW? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:28:31 PDT." Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:38:35 +0100 Message-ID: <1101.811640315@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message , "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" wr ites: >As far as i remember my own code( heh, i already forgot it for good).. >you have option "via" or "at" which both allow to set all the firewalls >for one interface only. Other interfaces would not be affected by the >permissions... Speaking as someone currently working on improving the ipfw docs - ``via'' does allow you to tie rules to packets from a specific interface. Hope this helps :-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 17:11:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA17934 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:11:39 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA17925 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:11:36 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA06023; Thu, 21 Sep 95 00:11:14 GMT Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA06450; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:11:13 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:11:13 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9509210011.AA06450@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: terry@lambert.org Cc: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509202303.QAA01795@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:03:21 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Terry" == Terry Lambert writes: Terry> It requires the implementation of run levels. And it's not clear what run levels are. On the HP/UX system I'm using at the moment, there are run levels 0 through 6 and S. S is the only one that really makes sense (S == single user), but why is 2 multiuser mode? What do you get with levels 0 and 1? What don't you get? And sites can customize the higher run levels to mean what they want. Terry> I personally *don't* find it objectionable. All those oddly named scripts, links, codes are hard to grok. More often than not, when ``such-n-such is hung,'' I have to find /etc/rc* -type f | xargs grep such-n-such just to find out the name of the script I'm supposed to use. And it turns out all it did was run ``such-n-such -d'' which I saw with the output from `ps', so it would've been faster to just kill it and restart it---which I'm leary of since what if I forgot to remove a fifo, lock file, or other such debris before doing so? I so much prefer just looking through /etc/rc.local (and now, /etc/sysconfig) since it collects in one place the needed stuff. ``Scotty, go to run level 6!'' ``Captain, the swapper won't handle all those daemons!'' ``Which daemons?'' ``I ... I don't know, captain!'' -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA I spilled spot remover on my dog. He's gone now. -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 17:22:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA19269 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:22:42 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA19256 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:22:38 -0700 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7.Beta.14/8.7.Beta.14) with ESMTP id UAA10584; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id UAA22285; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:21:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Sean Kelly cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts In-Reply-To: <9509210011.AA06450@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Sean Kelly wrote: > >>>>> "Terry" == Terry Lambert writes: > > Terry> It requires the implementation of run levels. > > And it's not clear what run levels are. On the HP/UX system I'm using > at the moment, there are run levels 0 through 6 and S. S is the only > one that really makes sense (S == single user), but why is 2 multiuser > mode? What do you get with levels 0 and 1? What don't you get? And > sites can customize the higher run levels to mean what they want. I don't think that going to such a system means that we have to slavishly copy their every nuance. We could easily set something like: 0: single user 1: multiuser 2: network 3: user-custom And then leave the rest to individual hackers. Could even have multiple levels for user-custom. This would make things easier to sequence, wouldn't it? It would allow for very simple addition of new daemons, like ports stuff, wouldn't it? Shutdown, which isn't even handled right now, would finally get fair play. This doesn't mean we go looking for all the wrong things that have been done to this system, but a lot of good is there. Doesn't it seem at least the best available base to start from? > > Terry> I personally *don't* find it objectionable. > > All those oddly named scripts, links, codes are hard to grok. More > often than not, when ``such-n-such is hung,'' I have to > > find /etc/rc* -type f | xargs grep such-n-such > > just to find out the name of the script I'm supposed to use. And it > turns out all it did was run ``such-n-such -d'' which I saw with the > output from `ps', so it would've been faster to just kill it and > restart it---which I'm leary of since what if I forgot to remove a > fifo, lock file, or other such debris before doing so? > > I so much prefer just looking through /etc/rc.local (and now, > /etc/sysconfig) since it collects in one place the needed stuff. > > > ``Scotty, go to run level 6!'' > > ``Captain, the swapper won't handle all those daemons!'' > > ``Which daemons?'' > > ``I ... I don't know, captain!'' > > -- > Sean Kelly > NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA > > I spilled spot remover on my dog. He's gone now. -- Steven Wright > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 18:22:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA27647 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:22:56 -0700 Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27605 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:22:46 -0700 From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA05423; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:21:44 -0700 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA21284; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:27:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:27:17 -0700 Message-Id: <9509210127.AA21284@asimov.volant.org> To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, chuckr@eng.umd.edu Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> I don't think that going to such a system means that we have to slavishly |> copy their every nuance. We could easily set something like: |> |> 0: single user |> 1: multiuser |> 2: network |> 3: user-custom The run levels seem have fairly standard meanings - PLEASE stick with the level definitions as used by Solaris, HP-UX, etc. There is no excuse for gratuituous incompatability. |> > All those oddly named scripts, links, codes are hard to grok. More |> > often than not, when ``such-n-such is hung,'' I have to |> > |> > find /etc/rc* -type f | xargs grep such-n-such |> > |> > just to find out the name of the script I'm supposed to use. And it |> > turns out all it did was run ``such-n-such -d'' which I saw with the |> > output from `ps', so it would've been faster to just kill it and |> > restart it---which I'm leary of since what if I forgot to remove a |> > fifo, lock file, or other such debris before doing so? I haven't seen how HP-UX does this; but it's pretty clean in Solaris 2.4. The files generally have fairly clear names, and they all live in /etc/init.d. The rc* directories only contain symlinks to the file in init.d, and the symlinks are clearly named. Once I figured out the basics, this became one of the things I really like about Solaris as compared with SunOS4.x. -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 18:59:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA03066 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:59:48 -0700 Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03039 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:59:42 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7.Beta.14/8.7.Beta.14) with ESMTP id VAA11404; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id VAA15361; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: patl@asimov.volant.org cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts In-Reply-To: <9509210127.AA21284@asimov.volant.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Sep 1995 patl@asimov.volant.org wrote: > |> I don't think that going to such a system means that we have to slavishly > |> copy their every nuance. We could easily set something like: > |> > |> 0: single user > |> 1: multiuser > |> 2: network > |> 3: user-custom > > The run levels seem have fairly standard meanings - PLEASE stick with > the level definitions as used by Solaris, HP-UX, etc. There is no > excuse for gratuituous incompatability. This seems a little cockeyed, requesting no changes in a "standard" item, that would be totally non-standard in BSD from the start anyways. Are there BSD based systems, not running init/inittab SVR type things, that use this setup? Because, if there aren't, asking for standardization is simply tying the hands of designers, for no good purpose. If I'm right, and a BSD standard to this doesn't exist, then an oppurtunity is presenting itself to use the best of what's out there. This isn't linux or SYSV, so reasons based on such systems are out of place. Am I wrong? > > |> > All those oddly named scripts, links, codes are hard to grok. More > |> > often than not, when ``such-n-such is hung,'' I have to > |> > > |> > find /etc/rc* -type f | xargs grep such-n-such > |> > > |> > just to find out the name of the script I'm supposed to use. And it > |> > turns out all it did was run ``such-n-such -d'' which I saw with the > |> > output from `ps', so it would've been faster to just kill it and > |> > restart it---which I'm leary of since what if I forgot to remove a > |> > fifo, lock file, or other such debris before doing so? > > I haven't seen how HP-UX does this; but it's pretty clean in Solaris 2.4. > The files generally have fairly clear names, and they all live in > /etc/init.d. The rc* directories only contain symlinks to the file > in init.d, and the symlinks are clearly named. > > > Once I figured out the basics, this became one of the things I really > like about Solaris as compared with SunOS4.x. > > > > > -Pat > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 19:07:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA03894 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:07:22 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA03879 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:07:15 -0700 Received: from healer.com ([205.164.80.204]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id TAA22937; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:04:26 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id JAA20931; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:46:58 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:46:58 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509201346.JAA20931@healer.com> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Well, now that Jordan started the fire and Paul has sprayed some > gasoline onto it, let's see if we can resolve this one last time. :) > I assume we all agree that we want something like > for script in ${local_startup}/*.sh; do > [ -x ${script} ] && ${script} start > done > to be run from /etc/rc. The question is, where do we want that > "local_startup" directory to be? > (1) /etc/rc.d > - Ports shouldn't touch anything in the root filesystem Well, various things affect /var/.... and that is not always mounted seperately. Heck, If /etc could be mounted seperately, I'd probably be doing so... > + Central location, easy to maintain > + Per-machine configuration possible even if /usr/local is NFS shared This is the option that I'd like to see. > So, if the user wants to change the "default" location of the "local" > tree or the X tree, he can just edit /etc/sysconfig. Possible, but that is one more set of things lumped into sysconfig. > The porters should just make sure that the script for the port > "" has a name ".sh" and it goes to ${PREFIX}/etc/rc.d. Personally, I'd prefer to see them named "rc." Alternately, I'd recommend one other options. 5) put them all in /etc/rc.ports - yep, it touches /etc (but that's what it's for) + but no normal system files are being modified + one known location + easy to see what is being run where > why don't we make it a guideline to try to make it understand arguments > "start" and "stop", it may be useful in the future. Great idea. There's a script I found somewhere (I forget) that I use all the time. It's called "pkill" and what it does is just a PS and greps for the process name to send it a specified signal. Yeah I know, easy to do. But adding something like to that to the base dist would (1) make people happy, (2) eliminate some of the need for /var/run/*.pid and (3) make the start scripts easier to implement more generically. > May I have your comments, ladies and gentlemen? On one other note, making all of the /etc normal startup scripts either (1) start with "rc." (like rc.netstart and rc.sysconfig) or moving them also to "/etc/rc.d". It makes tracking down where something is defined MUCH easier to be able to just grep through "/etc/rc*" than to have to figure out (or keep in your head if > 5 files :-) what else to look at. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 19:17:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA04867 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:17:28 -0700 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA04856 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:17:24 -0700 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA01087; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:17:03 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:17:02 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "Eric C. S. Dynamic" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Well hey, bwah In-Reply-To: <199509181918.TAA02924@wasabi.ecsd.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Eric C. S. Dynamic wrote: > Sure would like to use the powered by FreeBSD logo, so where in > tarnation is it? The "Powered by FreeBSD" logo, and rules governing usage may be found at http://www.freebsd.org/gallery.html. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 19:19:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA05218 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:19:40 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA05194 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:19:33 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA07818; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:16:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509210216.TAA07818@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:16:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, chuckr@eng.umd.edu, julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9509210011.AA06450@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Sep 20, 95 06:11:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2206 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>> "Terry" == Terry Lambert writes: > > Terry> It requires the implementation of run levels. > > And it's not clear what run levels are. On the HP/UX system I'm using > at the moment, there are run levels 0 through 6 and S. S is the only > one that really makes sense (S == single user), but why is 2 multiuser > mode? What do you get with levels 0 and 1? What don't you get? And > sites can customize the higher run levels to mean what they want. In order: 2 is not multiuser mode; 1 is. Run level 0 is maintenance mode, run level 1 is multiuser. You don't get networking (starts at run level 2) or network server capability (starts at run level 3). Yes, for 4 + 5, which are not used by default. 6 is typically used for reboot. > Terry> I personally *don't* find it objectionable. > > All those oddly named scripts, links, codes are hard to grok. More > often than not, when ``such-n-such is hung,'' I have to > > find /etc/rc* -type f | xargs grep such-n-such > > just to find out the name of the script I'm supposed to use. And it > turns out all it did was run ``such-n-such -d'' which I saw with the > output from `ps', so it would've been faster to just kill it and > restart it---which I'm leary of since what if I forgot to remove a > fifo, lock file, or other such debris before doing so? You are supposed to use an administrative utility, which will call the appropriate scripts with "start" or "stop" or "stop" then reconfig then "start". You are an unusal user if you know what hung by command name rather than by service name. > I so much prefer just looking through /etc/rc.local (and now, > /etc/sysconfig) since it collects in one place the needed stuff. Except that it's not modular enough for daemons that are needed by various 3rd party programs ("ports" or "packages") and it's not modular enough for add-on-system components (for instance, load SCO exection class and Linux execution class on startup by virtue of them existing without knowing that they existed when you wrote /etc/rc). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 19:27:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA06163 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:27:15 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06148 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:27:10 -0700 Received: from ast.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzibx18749; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:27:01 -0400 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA22597 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:28:17 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Wed, 20 Sep 95 21:27 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0svbIn-0004w8C; Wed, 20 Sep 95 21:23 CDT Message-Id: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 21:23 CDT To: hackers@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Wed Sep 20 1995, 21:23:53 CDT Subject: SCO owns UNIX now? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just FYI, on the news wires this afternoon was an article saying Novell was selling all of the UNIX "property" to SCO. Interesting little twist... Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Fastest Route)| demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"A what?" ...decvax!fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 19:35:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA07399 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:35:44 -0700 Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA07358 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:35:32 -0700 From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA07586; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:34:30 -0700 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA21415; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:39:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:39:59 -0700 Message-Id: <9509210239.AA21415@asimov.volant.org> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> > The run levels seem have fairly standard meanings - PLEASE stick with |> > the level definitions as used by Solaris, HP-UX, etc. There is no |> > excuse for gratuituous incompatability. |> |> This seems a little cockeyed, requesting no changes in a "standard" item, |> that would be totally non-standard in BSD from the start anyways. Are |> there BSD based systems, not running init/inittab SVR type things, that |> use this setup? Because, if there aren't, asking for standardization is |> simply tying the hands of designers, for no good purpose. |> |> If I'm right, and a BSD standard to this doesn't exist, then an |> oppurtunity is presenting itself to use the best of what's out there. |> This isn't linux or SYSV, so reasons based on such systems are out of |> place. Am I wrong? 'BSD style unix' is a red herring here. The operative word is 'unix'. If we're doing something similar to what SVr4 or any other flavor of unix does, and there is no STRONG technical reason to be different, any differences are simply gratuitous. Compatibility helps -all- unixes in the fight against Win* and other brain-dead toy OSes. (That happen to have the bulk of the market share...) I reiterate: 1. Gratuitous differences are BAD. 2. Compatibility is GOOD. Of course, I -could- be mistaken. I've only been a systems level software engineer for twenty three years now... -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 20:29:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA13429 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:29:12 -0700 Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [140.174.23.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA13417 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:29:08 -0700 Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA21741; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:29:07 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:29:07 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199509210329.UAA21741@kithrup.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Subject: Re: SCO owns UNIX now? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Just FYI, on the news wires this afternoon was an article >saying Novell was selling all of the UNIX "property" to SCO. Yes, this is true. SCO and Novell have agreed to let SCO purchase USL (or, at least, the intellectual property rights to UNIX). In a related issue, SCO, Novell, and HP have agreed to work together on producing a 64-bit UNIX; both SCO and HP are aiming for the P7 target, which HP is designing in conjunction with Intel. Odds are that this means little to the FreeBSD community, with the possible exception of some new jobs in California, the UK, and (possibly) New Jersey. Sean. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 20:35:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA14288 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:35:53 -0700 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA14251 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:35:43 -0700 Received: from latte.eng.umd.edu (latte.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.15]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7.Gamma.0/8.7.Gamma.0) with ESMTP id XAA22833; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by latte.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id XAA23335; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:34:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: patl@asimov.volant.org cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts In-Reply-To: <9509210239.AA21415@asimov.volant.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Sep 1995 patl@asimov.volant.org wrote: > |> > The run levels seem have fairly standard meanings - PLEASE stick with > |> > the level definitions as used by Solaris, HP-UX, etc. There is no > |> > excuse for gratuituous incompatability. > |> > |> This seems a little cockeyed, requesting no changes in a "standard" item, > |> that would be totally non-standard in BSD from the start anyways. Are > |> there BSD based systems, not running init/inittab SVR type things, that > |> use this setup? Because, if there aren't, asking for standardization is > |> simply tying the hands of designers, for no good purpose. > |> > |> If I'm right, and a BSD standard to this doesn't exist, then an > |> oppurtunity is presenting itself to use the best of what's out there. > |> This isn't linux or SYSV, so reasons based on such systems are out of > |> place. Am I wrong? > > 'BSD style unix' is a red herring here. The operative word is 'unix'. > If we're doing something similar to what SVr4 or any other flavor of > unix does, and there is no STRONG technical reason to be different, > any differences are simply gratuitous. Compatibility helps -all- unixes > in the fight against Win* and other brain-dead toy OSes. (That happen > to have the bulk of the market share...) > > > I reiterate: > > 1. Gratuitous differences are BAD. > > 2. Compatibility is GOOD. > > Of course, I -could- be mistaken. I've only been a systems level > software engineer for twenty three years now... OK, let me see if I have this right: 1) We need an improved startup script system. 2) There's a very good framework for one existing, it has a lot of bugs that many people find completely objectionable, but it's a good starting point. 3) Removing the perceived bugs in that other system makes it different from the original, displeasing those that happened to have a lot of experience using it, and don't want to learn another. 4) We, instead, must use another custom setup. It, too, will be non-standard, but at least it won't be traceable to the One True System. Is this a fair summary? I'm not in a fight with anyone, even Microsoft. I wish our fellow enthusiasts running Linux well, but I don't want to copy them. I really enjoy FreeBSD, and I enjoy showing it to friends, like I enjoy sharing favorite books. FreeBSD is quite different than other SYSV systems, and everyone associated with it wishes that it remain so. If I'm discussing making gratuitous changes to a part of the BSD Unix standard, I apologize, I'm completely wrong (and embarrassed), but I don't think so. I think I've beat this to death, I'm probably boring folks, so I'm gonna drop it. I see why it wasn't done before, tho. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 21:02:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA17899 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:02:01 -0700 Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA17868 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:01:52 -0700 From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA10169; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:00:52 -0700 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA21520; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:06:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:06:25 -0700 Message-Id: <9509210406.AA21520@asimov.volant.org> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> OK, let me see if I have this right: |> |> 1) We need an improved startup script system. Right. |> 2) There's a very good framework for one existing, it has a lot of bugs |> that many people find completely objectionable, but it's a good starting |> point. |> 3) Removing the perceived bugs in that other system makes it different |> from the original, displeasing those that happened to have a lot of |> experience using it, and don't want to learn another. Make sure they really are bugs before changing them. And make sure that your solution isn't just a different set of bugs... I suspect that most of the problem with the SVr4/Solaris/HP-UX startup script system is poor documentation. And a lot of the people complaining are really complaining about the change, not the actual result. Any change we make will suffer from that, no matter how good it is. |> 4) We, instead, must use another custom setup. It, too, will be |> non-standard, but at least it won't be traceable to the One True System. I'm not sure I understand this point. My position is: 1. If we can come up with a system that is significantly better than the SVr4 system, do it. 2. Minor incompatabilities, like re-numbering the run levels, are not likely to be a significant improvement. Don't do it. |> Is this a fair summary? |> |> I'm not in a fight with anyone, even Microsoft. I wish our fellow If you ever want to see a wide range of commercial quality end-user software available for FreeBSD, you -are- in a fight with Microsoft. A fight for market share in installed seats. If, on the other hand, you just enjoy hacking around in the kernel and utilities, and don't care if FreeBSD withers away and you wind up the only one still using it, then go right ahead and re-invent every wheel you come across. |> enthusiasts running Linux well, but I don't want to copy them. |> I really enjoy FreeBSD, and I enjoy showing it to friends, like I |> enjoy sharing favorite books. FreeBSD is quite different than other SYSV |> systems, and everyone associated with it wishes that it remain so. If |> I'm discussing making gratuitous changes to a part of the BSD Unix |> standard, I apologize, I'm completely wrong (and embarrassed), but I |> don't think so. You make it sound like the folks working on FreeBSD would make changes just to be different from SYSV. I sincerely hope that is not the case. We should strive to produce the best unix-derived system that we can; but vigorously fight the Not Invented Here syndrome. If somebody else has a better solution than the one we are using, we should feel perfectly free to adopt it. Or, if we can, improve it further. -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 21:20:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA19353 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:20:32 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA19348 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:20:28 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06010 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:05:08 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA13478; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:38:36 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:38:36 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509210338.WAA13478@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509200444.VAA14075@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199509200128.UAA13444@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199509200444.VAA14075@phaeton.artisoft.com>, Terry Lambert wrote: >> > 8-). The complaint isn't >> > that you can't work around what is effectively a loss of information, but >> > that you have to do so. >> What information loss is that? >How many records are in the file from stat information. And how is this information *lost*? Your code works just fine regardless of the character set used. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 21:54:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA22037 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:54:06 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA22028 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:54:02 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA06124; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:54:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:54:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199509210454.VAA06124@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199509201533.LAA04802@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> (message from A boy and his worm gear on Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:32:57 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: This doesn't seem right... From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * Today I tried doing a make world on FreeBSD-current and after some time, Have no idea on what's wrong with that, but please send stuff like this to the "current" list. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 22:23:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA24393 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:23:26 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA24384 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:23:18 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA29492 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:22:03 +1000 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:22:03 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509210522.PAA29492@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xntpd (or kernel) timekeeping problem? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >TIMER_FREQ should once and forever be banned from all source files and >> >moved out into a header file. (isa.h?) >>... >Who's volunteering? I think you need an agrep to find all the >locations where this frequency has been defined throughout the source >tree. Note that the several definitions used to differ slightly. :-) pcvt spells it PCVT_SYSBEEPF but gives it the same value. This doesn't annoy me as much as both syscons and pcvt ignoring the keyboard defines that were already in a header files (ic/i8042.h). E.g., port ic/i8042.h ../include/console.h pcvt/pcvt_hdr.h ---- ---------- -------------------- --------------- 0x60 KBDATAP, KBOUTP KB_DATA, KB_WRITE CONTROLLER_DATA 0x64 KBSTATP KB_STAT CONTROLLER_CTRL state ic/i8042.h ../include/console.h pcvt/pcvt_hdr.h ----- ---------- -------------------- --------------- 0x01 KBS_DIB KB_BUF_FULL STATUS_OUTPBF 0x02 KBS_IBF KB_READY STATUS_INPBF not to mention port isa.h GENERIC LINT thousands of config files ---- ----- ------- ---- ------------------------- 0x60 IO_KBD IO_KBD IO_KBD IO_KBD The value in the config files is ignored. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 23:54:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA27364 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:54:03 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA27355 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:53:56 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA03754 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:53:49 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA27879 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:53:48 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA14601 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:34:55 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509210634.IAA14601@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Firewalling one interface using IPFW? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:34:55 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" at Sep 20, 95 04:28:31 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 318 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Ugen J.S.Antsilevich wrote: > > As far as i remember my own code( heh, i already forgot it for good).. :-) That's the best reason to document it in the first place. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Sep 20 23:54:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA27412 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:54:15 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA27358 ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:54:00 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA03746; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:53:46 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA27877; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:53:46 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA14650; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:39:18 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509210639.IAA14650@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:39:17 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199509202303.QAA01795@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 20, 95 04:03:21 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 482 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > It requires the implementation of run levels. > > I personally *don't* find it objectionable. I will yet have to see a single SysV that handles all run-level transitions correctly. :-) 8 run-levels are IMVVVHO far too much to handle all permutations of them. 3 are better to handle (stop, single, multi). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 02:29:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA01260 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:29:33 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA01255 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:29:30 -0700 Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA27642 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 02:21:10 -0700 Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id MAA25150 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:21:27 +0300 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA11934 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:24:29 +0300 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA21228; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:24:28 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199509210724.KAA21228@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Did any FreeBSD hacker succeed in building Perl5 "Curses"-a8 ext? To: William_Setzer@ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:24:27 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1536 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, if the answer is "yes", can you share knowlege with me? The system I'm working on is straight 2.0.5-R out of the CD. Perl5.001 and it's dynamical exts are working fine. The c-config.h is as follows: - - - - # include # define C_LONGNAME # define C_LONG0ARGS # undef C_LONG2ARGS # define C_TOUCHLINE # define C_TOUCH3ARGS # undef C_TOUCH4ARGS - - - - I dropped the Curses module directory into .../perl5.001/ext subdir, with perl5 itself already compiled, installed and tested. First of all, I tried to build the thing "standalone", using the sequence described in it's install notes. Except of a small gotcha (modern FreeBSD make doesn't like lines with only spaces in them) at line 394 of generated Makefile, things went smooth. I typed `./demo`... and the DynaLoader told me that it could't resolve some symbols while using libncurses.so.3.0, and 'dlerror is not implemented' on the system. But the function is _certainly_ there, as `nm` command tells me! So -- some kind of mistery. Two or three attempts... no success. I rebuild the whole Perl5, and told Configure script to peek Curses and libncurses.a in the overall process. Things went a bit better; now I'm getting somewhat more 'civilized' error message, from the Perl (not C) part of the module: Curses function 'initscr' is not defined by your vendor at ./demo line 6. But again, 'initscr' is certainly there! Help! I _really_ want it working! -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 04:50:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA04081 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 04:50:26 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA04063 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 04:50:04 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id HAA22871; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 07:53:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 07:53:54 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509211153.HAA22871@healer.com> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, patl@asimov.volant.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The run levels seem have fairly standard meanings - PLEASE stick with > the level definitions as used by Solaris, HP-UX, etc. There is no > excuse for gratuituous incompatability. Personally, I really liked the BSD way of starting up, rather than the SysV method, but since it looks like people are trying to merge the two families, so be it... > The files generally have fairly clear names, and they all live in > /etc/init.d. The rc* directories only contain symlinks to the file > in init.d, and the symlinks are clearly named. Yuk. One sub-directory of /etc being used just to have symlinks to another sub-directory of /etc? If you want to use seperate sub-directories for each "run-level" then use the seperate scripts in each directory, so all someone has to do to find where something is being run is grep mumbled /etc/rc.*/* With the directories named something like "rc.0", "rc.1", ... Then if you want to have other startup directories scatter throughout the system (personally the idea dislikes me), you can symlink from the normal starting place to wherever on other file systems. In other words, keep it simple. And while we're on the subject of completely reworking /etc, how about a "inet" directory which holds (as seperate files) all the network specific config files, such as host name, ip-addresses, resolv.conf, ... Why? So if you are doing cookie-cutter installs on lots of systems, you go through that one directory to change everything there, and leave everything else in /etc alone. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 05:23:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA04518 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 05:23:36 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA04508 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 05:20:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA11758; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:14:55 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199509211214.SAA11758@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:14:55 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509211153.HAA22871@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 21, 95 07:53:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 574 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The files generally have fairly clear names, and they all live in > > /etc/init.d. The rc* directories only contain symlinks to the file > > in init.d, and the symlinks are clearly named. > > Yuk. One sub-directory of /etc being used just to have symlinks to > another sub-directory of /etc? Old SCO had hard links and it was a big problem because they had a bad trend to restore as separate files from backups. So symbolic links look better. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 06:10:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA05465 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 06:10:52 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA05448 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 06:10:41 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <27565-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:10:23 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id XAA04561; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:01:31 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id WAA17842; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:56:53 +1000 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:56:53 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199509211256.WAA17842@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: patl@asimov.volant.org cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk patl@asimov.volant.org wrote: >|> I don't think that going to such a system means that we have to slavishly >|> copy their every nuance. We could easily set something like: >|> >|> 0: single user >|> 1: multiuser >|> 2: network >|> 3: user-custom > >The run levels seem have fairly standard meanings - PLEASE stick with >the level definitions as used by Solaris, HP-UX, etc. There is no >excuse for gratuituous incompatability. What do we need run levels for? As far as I can tell, it's never done me any good on the System V boxes I've administered. I want single-user mode for serious system munging, and multi-user mode for everything else. The rest is useless crap. If, say, cron is spinning madly out of control and you want it shut off, is there a run level for that? Nope. You just kill it and restart it when you feel like it. What if the printer daemon has hung. No run level for that either. It adds no value. All those fiddly little scripts give me the irrits too. Half of them run 'ps' in a reckless manner on shutdown in a hope-I-got-it-right attempt to find the server they want to kill. Some do that on startup too! They are a feeble attempt at enabling and disabling services. If we want that sort of thing, let's build some sort of super-server (like init or inetd) to look after them properly (plus some system admin tool to flip them on and off, and maybe keep track of dependencies on other servers). Let's not embrace this particular bit of System V. And back to the real problem: how to start services that not everyone has installed. I see nothing at all wrong with pkg_add editing something like /etc/rc.ports and having /etc/rc.ports run from /etc/rc. If you want a read-only root filesystem, symlink /etc to some place writable first, then carry on. You want /etc to be read only? How do you get anything done? No one adds users or changes passwords? No alias file updates? You must have built a custom /etc to still be enjoying your life, so add a symlink from /etc/rc.ports to /var/some/thing or /usr/local/whatever while you are at it. You must have *SOME* writable directories if you expect ports to load! :-) Let's keep this as simple as we can. All these grand schemes for hoards of shell scripts called from 'for' loops make me nervous. Is it safer in one of the other BSD camps? (Only kidding guys! No rocks! Oww!) Stephen McKay. Will administrate Unix for food. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 06:55:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA06403 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 06:55:21 -0700 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA06364 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 06:53:57 -0700 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com (root@tserv.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.10]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA10304; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:46:02 -0500 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA25372; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:43:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA03773; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:50:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199509211350.IAA03773@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:14:55 +0600." <199509211214.SAA11758@hq.icb.chel.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:50:34 -0500 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > The files generally have fairly clear names, and they all live in > > > /etc/init.d. The rc* directories only contain symlinks to the file > > > in init.d, and the symlinks are clearly named. > > > > Yuk. One sub-directory of /etc being used just to have symlinks to > > another sub-directory of /etc? > > Old SCO had hard links and it was a big problem because they had a bad > trend to restore as separate files from backups. So symbolic links > look better. > Yea, and they kind of went overboard on OpenServer 5. They must have been so proud of the fact that they finally got symlinks that they decided to make the entire filesystem out of 'em. They had symlinks on 4.2 too, but apparently not enough people found out about them, so they made 'em more obvious. > Serge Babkin > > ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) > ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" > ! Chelyabinsk, Russia > -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 07:44:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA07777 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 07:44:55 -0700 Received: from Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (Wit401402.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA07755 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 07:44:48 -0700 Received: (from alain@localhost) by Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA00423; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:44:25 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:44:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker Reply-To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl To: Stephen McKay cc: patl@asimov.volant.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts In-Reply-To: <199509211256.WAA17842@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, Stephen McKay wrote: > All those fiddly little scripts give me the irrits too. Half of them run > 'ps' in a reckless manner on shutdown in a hope-I-got-it-right attempt to > find the server they want to kill. Some do that on startup too! > > They are a feeble attempt at enabling and disabling services. If we want > that sort of thing, let's build some sort of super-server (like init or inetd) > to look after them properly (plus some system admin tool to flip them on > and off, and maybe keep track of dependencies on other servers). Let's not > embrace this particular bit of System V. Now _this_ looks like a very interesting idea to me! Just my humble expression of opinion. --- Alain From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 08:26:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA08753 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:26:32 -0700 Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08748 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:26:25 -0700 From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00513; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:25:02 -0700 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA22279; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:30:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:30:32 -0700 Message-Id: <9509211530.AA22279@asimov.volant.org> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, gryphon@healer.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> > The files generally have fairly clear names, and they all live in |> > /etc/init.d. The rc* directories only contain symlinks to the file |> > in init.d, and the symlinks are clearly named. |> |> Yuk. One sub-directory of /etc being used just to have symlinks to |> another sub-directory of /etc? Actually, I was wrong - they are hard links. |> If you want to use seperate sub-directories for each "run-level" |> then use the seperate scripts in each directory, so all someone |> has to do to find where something is being run is |> |> grep mumbled /etc/rc.*/* |> But some of the scripts are used in more than one subdirectory. And some may not be in any rc? directory unless the related service is actually in use. Having a single directory as the canonical location of all of the service start/stop scripts makes life easier. And you can still use that grep, even with symlinks or hardlinks. |> With the directories named something like "rc.0", "rc.1", ... Sun originally used 'rc0', 'rc1', etc. These are now symlinks to 'rc0.d', 'rc1.d', etc. I don't know why they made the change. We should probably find out - it might save us from running into the same sort of problem ourselves. (And, again, I urge consistancy with existing implementations. There's no point in being the only ones to use 'rc.?' if everyone else is using 'rc?.d'.) |> Then if you want to have other startup directories scatter throughout |> the system (personally the idea dislikes me), you can symlink from |> the normal starting place to wherever on other file systems. I agree. Init shouldn't know about any startup area except /etc/rc?.d. Off hand, I can't think of any argument for putting startup directories elsewhere. Note that subsystems may have their own startup/data directories elsewhere (e.g., /etc/named); but these aren't directly accessed by init. |> In other words, keep it simple. --- YES !!! --- |> And while we're on the subject of completely reworking /etc, how |> about a "inet" directory which holds (as seperate files) all the |> network specific config files, such as host name, ip-addresses, |> resolv.conf, ... |> |> Why? So if you are doing cookie-cutter installs on lots of systems, |> you go through that one directory to change everything there, and |> leave everything else in /etc alone. Sounds good to me. Partitioning into subdirectories can also make it easier for the occasional sysadmin to find all of the files related to a given subsystem. My Solaris 2.4 system has the following subdirs of /etc: (I'm not suggesting we slavishly copy what they did; but we probably want to think about -why- they made those choices, and whether we could benefit from something similar.) cron.d .proto, at.deny, cron.deny, logchecker, queuedefs fs Subdir for each installed loadable filesystem type (hsfs, nfs, proc, ufs) Each subdir (except proc) contains an executable binary named 'mount'. (proc is empty.) inet hosts, inetd.conf, netmasks, networks, protocols, services init.d The canonical site for the per-service rc scripts. lib ia_scheme.so, ld.so.1, libdl.so.1, nss_files.so.1, unix_scheme.so.1 mail Mail.rc, aliases{,.dir,.pag}, mailx.rc, main.cf, sendmail.cf, sendmail.hf, subsidiary.cf rc?.d The per-runlevel hardlinks to the per-service rc scripts in init.d. security Things relating to the security audit daemon skel Default user rc files. (.profile, local.cshrc, local.login, local.profile) default Default versions of some control files: cron, fs, init, login, passwd, su, tar, utmpd dfs Control files for distributed filesystems (NFS, etc.) net Subdirs: ticlts, ticots, ticotsord. Each holds a hosts and a services file. opt One of the standard places for installing third-party and optional software. (The other is /opt.) saf Control files and subdirs for the Service Access Controller (Don't ask.) tm Empty lp Various control files and subdirs related to printing acct holidays: Prim/Nonprime table for unix accounting system uucp Control files used by uucp, cu, etc. for foreign system access. (Also used by their dial-up PPP - very convienent.) cetables Tooltalk type files. named DNS server control files From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 08:27:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA08826 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:27:21 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08821 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:27:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA18885; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:27:04 -0700 To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO owns UNIX now? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:23:00 CDT." Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:27:04 -0700 Message-ID: <18883.811697224@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Just FYI, on the news wires this afternoon was an article > saying Novell was selling all of the UNIX "property" to SCO. > Interesting little twist... Yes indeed. I am at USENIX right now and am currently talking with some of the SCO folks on what their plans for all this are. A promising sign is that they are actually _enthusiastic_ about the prospect of SCO binary emulation in FreeBSD and I am seeing if I can't possibly convince them to be even more supportive than that, like maybe providing a little technical assistance for making it work a lot better than it does now - both now and for their next product. On the whole, I'm actually happy about this. Novell clearly didn't know what to do with UNIX and perhaps SCO will. The UNIX camp has done enough in-fighting up to now, and the competition isn't in St. Cruz - it's in Redmond! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 08:41:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA09824 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:41:54 -0700 Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09778 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:41:43 -0700 From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00986; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:40:41 -0700 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA22308; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:46:16 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:46:16 -0700 Message-Id: <9509211546.AA22308@asimov.volant.org> To: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> What do we need run levels for? As far as I can tell, it's never done me |> any good on the System V boxes I've administered. I want single-user mode |> for serious system munging, and multi-user mode for everything else. The |> rest is useless crap. If, say, cron is spinning madly out of control and you |> want it shut off, is there a run level for that? Nope. You just kill it |> and restart it when you feel like it. What if the printer daemon has hung. |> No run level for that either. It adds no value. First, BSD has run levels. Ok, there's only two - single user and multi; but there are two. Second, most of the time, you are right - single user and full multi-user, with the network servers and clients going are the two most commonly used run levels. But the other levels can be -very- useful to the sysadmin during various less-common operations. (Say, when recovering from some problem. It multi-without-network allows the use of X11 for multi-windowing while working on a problem that may prevent full network access; or for which you need to ensure that there are no outside influences while you are working.) |> All those fiddly little scripts give me the irrits too. Half of them run |> 'ps' in a reckless manner on shutdown in a hope-I-got-it-right attempt to |> find the server they want to kill. Some do that on startup too! That's just lack of cooperation by the servers. Easily fixed by having the servers write a .pid file on startup. (The scripts should then use 'ps -p ...' to verify that if there is a running process with that number, it is the expected service.) |> They are a feeble attempt at enabling and disabling services. If we want |> that sort of thing, let's build some sort of super-server (like init or |> inetd) to look after them properly (plus some system admin tool to flip |> them on and off, and maybe keep track of dependencies on other servers). |> Let's not embrace this particular bit of System V. Can you say KISS ? |> And back to the real problem: how to start services that not everyone has |> installed. |> |> I see nothing at all wrong with pkg_add editing something like /etc/rc.ports |> and having /etc/rc.ports run from /etc/rc. I see something wrong with install scripts editing -anything-. It is orders of magnititude safer to simply copy a new script file into a subdir. |> If you want a read-only root |> filesystem, symlink /etc to some place writable first, then carry on. You |> want /etc to be read only? How do you get anything done? No one adds users |> or changes passwords? No alias file updates? You must have built a custom |> /etc to still be enjoying your life, so add a symlink from /etc/rc.ports to |> /var/some/thing or /usr/local/whatever while you are at it. You must have |> *SOME* writable directories if you expect ports to load! :-) I don't think this is particularly related to wanting to make things read-only. |> Let's keep this as simple as we can. All these grand schemes for hoards |> of shell scripts called from 'for' loops make me nervous. Is it safer in |> one of the other BSD camps? (Only kidding guys! No rocks! Oww!) That makes you nervous, but install scripts editing system control files doesn't? -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 09:01:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA12668 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:01:53 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12586 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:01:38 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id MAA00421; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:00:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:00:23 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509211600.MAA00421@healer.com> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, gryphon@healer.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, patl@asimov.volant.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: patl@asimov.volant.org > Coranth Gryphon said: > +> Yuk. One sub-directory of /etc being used just to have symlinks to > +> another sub-directory of /etc? > Actually, I was wrong - they are hard links. Even worse. > +> If you want to use seperate sub-directories for each "run-level" > +> then use the seperate scripts in each directory, so all someone > +> has to do to find where something is being run is > +> > +> grep mumbled /etc/rc.*/* > +> > But some of the scripts are used in more than one subdirectory. And > some may not be in any rc? directory unless the related service is When are you going to start a daemon in more than one place? Or set a global environment variable, then change it later? Define it as "Run Level N" includes all "Run Level 0..N-1". Simple. > +> With the directories named something like "rc.0", "rc.1", ... > Sun originally used 'rc0', 'rc1', etc. These are now symlinks to > 'rc0.d', 'rc1.d', etc. I don't know why they made the change. Because all such directories ended with ".d" (reminiscent of DOS extension anyone) > the same sort of problem ourselves. (And, again, I urge consistancy > with existing implementations. There's no point in being the only > ones to use 'rc.?' if everyone else is using 'rc?.d'.) We are not System V. If we want to be System V stop calling ourselves FreeBSD and become FreeUnix (FreeNix anyone? :-) Seriously. If we want to throw away how /etc/rc works (and it does work), then only take from other camps what we need. I have yet to see a standard out (ie. all parts work identically) there on the 8-10 unix flavors that I work with. So which one are you going to clone? > +> And while we're on the subject of completely reworking /etc, how > +> about a "inet" directory which holds (as seperate files) all the > +> network specific config files, such as host name, ip-addresses, > +> resolv.conf, ... > +> > +> Why? So if you are doing cookie-cutter installs on lots of systems, > +> you go through that one directory to change everything there, and > +> leave everything else in /etc alone. > Sounds good to me. Partitioning into subdirectories can also make it > easier for the occasional sysadmin to find all of the files related to > a given subsystem. Yep. > My Solaris 2.4 system has the following subdirs of /etc: > cron.d Crontab entries already exist in /var/cron/tabs, except for root's entry which is in /etc. You could easily move it to /var/cron/tabs as well. > fs > > Subdir for each installed loadable filesystem type > (hsfs, nfs, proc, ufs) Each subdir (except proc) > contains an executable binary named 'mount'. Please, no executables (other than a few minor scripts) in /etc. > inet > hosts, inetd.conf, netmasks, networks, protocols, services I also have resolv.conf and such things as: sysname, domainnanme, ipaddr.ed0, default.route, plus all the named stuff. > lib > ia_scheme.so, ld.so.1, libdl.so.1, nss_files.so.1, Same issue, these belong in /usr/lib > mail > Mail.rc, aliases{,.dir,.pag}, mailx.rc, main.cf, sendmail.cf, > sendmail.hf, subsidiary.cf OK, or can be in /etc/inet. > skel > Default user rc files. (.profile, local.cshrc, > local.login, local.profile) I put all the stuff normally in /usr/share/skel in /etc/skel. If you want all the default stuff ("csh.cshrc" as well as "dot.cshrc") that makes sense to me. > default > Default versions of some control files: cron, fs, init, > login, passwd, su, tar, utmpd Why bother? We are shipping a live file-system CD anyway. If they download it and want the default stuff, keep it somewhere else. > dfs > saf > net > lp > acct > cetables Excessive. > opt Same as with shared libs and other executables: please no. > tm > Empty That's useful :-) > named > DNS server control files OK, it can be separate or combined with /etc/inet Let's not go overboard and try and stick everything in it's own little nook and cranny. One directory for network related config files (that will change from system to system). One directory each for major subsystems (UUCP, PPP, NEWS). I define major subsystems as ones that have more than a half dozen files to keep track of just for it. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 09:38:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA17668 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:38:58 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA17661 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:38:55 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA02202; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:41:00 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:41:00 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509211641.KAA02202@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO owns UNIX now? In-Reply-To: <18883.811697224@time.cdrom.com> References: <18883.811697224@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Just FYI, on the news wires this afternoon was an article > > saying Novell was selling all of the UNIX "property" to SCO. > > Interesting little twist... > > Yes indeed. I am at USENIX right now and am currently talking with > some of the SCO folks on what their plans for all this are. A > promising sign is that they are actually _enthusiastic_ about the > prospect of SCO binary emulation in FreeBSD and I am seeing if I can't > possibly convince them to be even more supportive than that, like > maybe providing a little technical assistance for making it work a lot > better than it does now - both now and for their next product. How about making things like SCO shlibs available? That would be *way* too cool for us. There is a version of libc_s available, but we don't have the libnsl_s library necessary for many applications. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 09:44:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA18793 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:44:46 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA18780 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:44:43 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA08643; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:33:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:33:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Pentium Pro To: Terry Lambert cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509201717.KAA01096@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > For example, Intel was recently selected by the U.S. Department of > > Energy to build a 9,000-processor computer based on the Pentium Pro > > processor that will deliver 10 times the performance of today's > > fastest supercomputers. > > Assuming all problems lend themselves to parallelism. i can think of one, at least. time to up the size of the key space in pgp again?? > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 09:46:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA19072 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:46:41 -0700 Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA19067 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:46:37 -0700 From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA02905; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:45:21 -0700 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA22389; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:50:45 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:50:45 -0700 Message-Id: <9509211650.AA22389@asimov.volant.org> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, gryphon@healer.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> When are you going to start a daemon in more than one place? |> Or set a global environment variable, then change it later? |> |> Define it as "Run Level N" includes all "Run Level 0..N-1". Simple. If it really were that simple, why didn't SVr4 do it that way? |> > the same sort of problem ourselves. (And, again, I urge consistancy |> > with existing implementations. There's no point in being the only |> > ones to use 'rc.?' if everyone else is using 'rc?.d'.) |> |> We are not System V. If we want to be System V stop calling ourselves |> FreeBSD and become FreeUnix (FreeNix anyone? :-) I'm not suggesting that we become System V. But if they have a better solution to one of our problems, why not adopt it? I have no problem with differences that provide some significant technical advantage. But differences just because "we aren't System V" only hurt us. We don't want people refusing to run FreeBSD because it is too different from the other unixes, (without significant advantage) do we? |> Seriously. If we want to throw away how /etc/rc works (and it does |> work), then only take from other camps what we need. I have yet |> to see a standard out (ie. all parts work identically) there on the |> 8-10 unix flavors that I work with. So which one are you going to clone? We have two reasonable choices: 1. Whichever one we feel is technically superior. 2. The one with the biggest market presence (Solaris2). |> > cron.d |> |> Crontab entries already exist in /var/cron/tabs, except for root's entry |> which is in /etc. You could easily move it to /var/cron/tabs as well. Solaris keeps the crontab entries in /var/spool/cron/crontabs, with at job entries in /var/spool/cron/atjobs. /etc/cron only contains the administrative scripts (logchecker), access control files (at.deny, cron.deny), etc. |> > mail |> > Mail.rc, aliases{,.dir,.pag}, mailx.rc, main.cf, sendmail.cf, |> > sendmail.hf, subsidiary.cf |> |> OK, or can be in /etc/inet. Could be, but I kind of like the separate dir for mail. |> > skel |> > Default user rc files. (.profile, local.cshrc, |> > local.login, local.profile) |> |> I put all the stuff normally in /usr/share/skel in /etc/skel. |> If you want all the default stuff ("csh.cshrc" as well as "dot.cshrc") |> that makes sense to me. The current /usr/share/skel is a fine location. |> > default |> > Default versions of some control files: cron, fs, init, |> > login, passwd, su, tar, utmpd |> |> Why bother? We are shipping a live file-system CD anyway. |> If they download it and want the default stuff, keep it somewhere else. I tend to agree. But I was on the SunSoft WOS (Wad Of S*) team for a while, and I know how tight they are on space usage. I can't help but suspect that there is some less obvious reason for having these files. (I'm certainly willing to forego them until we find it though.) |> > opt |> |> Same as with shared libs and other executables: please no. Even in Solaris /etc/opt is depreciated in favor of /opt. The FreeBSD convention is to install everything into /usr/local. The separate-subdir-per-vendor (or major package cluster) has some adantages for installation, update, and multiple version support; but makes for huge PATHs and confuses some users. |> > named |> > DNS server control files |> |> OK, it can be separate or combined with /etc/inet Keep it where it is (/etc/namedb). All of the books on DNS and BIND expect it to be there. (I would class moving it into /etc/inet as a gratuitous difference.) |> Let's not go overboard and try and stick everything in it's own |> little nook and cranny. |> |> One directory for network related config files (that will change |> from system to system). One directory each for major subsystems |> (UUCP, PPP, NEWS). I define major subsystems as ones that have |> more than a half dozen files to keep track of just for it. Agreed. (Although I wouldn't necessarily make half a dozen a hard limit. After all named only has five.) -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 10:53:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA22428 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:53:04 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA22409 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:52:48 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id NAA00729; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:50:53 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:50:53 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509211750.NAA00729@healer.com> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, gryphon@healer.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, patl@asimov.volant.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Pat writes: > Coranth Gryphon wrote: > +> When are you going to start a daemon in more than one place? > +> Or set a global environment variable, then change it later? > +> > +> Define it as "Run Level N" includes all "Run Level 0..N-1". Simple. > If it really were that simple, why didn't SVr4 do it that way? You're asking why an OS that I think has a lousy implementation of run levels didn't do it right in the first place? :-) Answer: I don't know why they didn't do it right. That doesn't stop us from doing it right, does it? > I'm not suggesting that we become System V. But if they have a better > solution to one of our problems, why not adopt it? I have no problem > with differences that provide some significant technical advantage. Granted. I think run-levels are not a bad thing. I see no reason to adopt them, since I consider what we have to work fine. But lots of people seem to want run-levels. OK. We'll do it. > But differences just because "we aren't System V" only hurt us. We Granted. But keeping it identical just because they did like that is just as bad. Takes the best parts, the ideas that work. Keep anything that does not make a difference the same (to satisfy the "no gratuitous changes" camp), but be willing to change what we don't like for our sake. > don't want people refusing to run FreeBSD because it is too different > from the other unixes, (without significant advantage) do we? Then keep it only BSD and stop trying to System-V-ize it. > +> 8-10 unix flavors that I work with. So which one are you going to clone? >We have two reasonable choices: > 1. Whichever one we feel is technically superior. > 2. The one with the biggest market presence (Solaris2). Neither. Build our own implementation, the way FreeBSD wants it, that conforms to the basic framework. If I want to use Solaris, I'll use Solaris. I don't want FreeBSD to just become a cheap Solaris clone. > +> > skel > +> > +> I put all the stuff normally in /usr/share/skel in /etc/skel. > The current /usr/share/skel is a fine location. Except when you want to change default dot files. Then have to redo it after each install. > named > Keep it where it is (/etc/namedb). All of the books on DNS and BIND > expect it to be there. (I would class moving it into /etc/inet as > a gratuitous difference.) OK. It has enough files of its own to class it as a subsystem. |> Let's not go overboard and try and stick everything in it's own |> little nook and cranny. |> > Agreed. (Although I wouldn't necessarily make half a dozen a hard > limit. After all named only has five.) Granted. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 11:08:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA23290 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:08:27 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA23283 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:08:17 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA09066; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:06:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509211806.LAA09066@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:06:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509210338.WAA13478@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Sep 20, 95 10:38:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 900 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >> What information loss is that? > > >How many records are in the file from stat information. > > And how is this information *lost*? Your code works just fine regardless > of the character set used. I replied to this under seperate cover, but since you hit the list, I'll hit the list too: Records must do one of three things with Runic encoding schemes: 1) Not contain a fixed amount of data for a fixed length field. 2) Be larger than they have to be to take runic expansion into account for fixed length fields, with a high average wastage. 3) Be variable length, giving up the relationship between file size and record count. 1 and 2 are unacceptable. 3 is unacceptable. Runic encoding is unacceptable (and this is just one reason among many). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 11:11:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA23414 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:11:38 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA23397 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:11:33 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA09075; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:08:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509211808.LAA09075@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:08:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509210639.IAA14650@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Sep 21, 95 08:39:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 297 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > It requires the implementation of run levels. > > I will yet have to see a single SysV that handles all run-level > transitions correctly. :-) SVR4.0.2 Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 11:32:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA23768 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:32:35 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA23748 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:32:11 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA09109; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:21:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509211821.LAA09109@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:21:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, patl@asimov.volant.org, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199509211153.HAA22871@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 21, 95 07:53:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2375 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Personally, I really liked the BSD way of starting up, rather than the > SysV method, but since it looks like people are trying to merge the > two families, so be it... The BSD method leaves no room for leaving system startup files intact from a distribution in the face of daemonds that need to be started at system startup time rather than by inetd. Required changes include such things as: 1) Loading of additional file system LKM's. 2) Loading of binary emulation LKM's (Linux/SCO/etc.). 3) Starting a program as a mail transfer agent. 4) NOT starting sendmail as a mail transfer agent. 5) Starting SNMP agent(s). 6) Starting Radius (the authentication daemon for Livingston Portmasters). 7) Starting user space PPP. 8) Starting database service engines (Postgres/Sybase/etc.). 9) Starting Network service engines (Samba/Puzzle Systems NetWare Server/AppleTalk). 10) NOT starting Network service engines (NFS) etc. Note that 1 & 2 are a result of not having demand-loading and autoprobe capabailities, and speak more to deficiencies in the load mechanism used by LKMs than anything else. The best enhancement one could make is integrating sorted ordering of two directories, one in /etc and one on /var, to account for readonly NFS mounting of /. This would allow order specification without compromising the ability to have two directories (or the ability to have two directories without compromising the ability to specify order). Other than that, there's very little that one can do to improve upon the idea. > Yuk. One sub-directory of /etc being used just to have symlinks to > another sub-directory of /etc? Yeah, I dislike this. It smacks of not being sure at which run level you want to run certain scripts. It *does*, however, support the idea of optioning a script "off" without deleting it. > And while we're on the subject of completely reworking /etc, how > about a "inet" directory which holds (as seperate files) all the > network specific config files, such as host name, ip-addresses, > resolv.conf, ... > > Why? So if you are doing cookie-cutter installs on lots of systems, > you go through that one directory to change everything there, and > leave everything else in /etc alone. A good idea. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 11:33:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA23804 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:33:12 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA23767 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:32:35 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA09130; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:30:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509211830.LAA09130@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:30:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: patl@asimov.volant.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509211256.WAA17842@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen McKay" at Sep 21, 95 10:56:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3052 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > What do we need run levels for? As far as I can tell, it's never done me > any good on the System V boxes I've administered. I want single-user mode > for serious system munging, and multi-user mode for everything else. The > rest is useless crap. If, say, cron is spinning madly out of control and you > want it shut off, is there a run level for that? Nope. You just kill it > and restart it when you feel like it. What if the printer daemon has hung. > No run level for that either. It adds no value. /etc/init.d/cron stop /etc/init.d/cron start Or pick "reset" in the administrative utility. Presumably, the administrative utility would get configuration info and other tags for the cron script out of a comment section (or use of environment variables set with a different argument to the script) to automate adding support for administration by dropping the script in. > All those fiddly little scripts give me the irrits too. Half of them run > 'ps' in a reckless manner on shutdown in a hope-I-got-it-right attempt to > find the server they want to kill. Some do that on startup too! Sounds like badly written scripts. Luckily, being copyrighted, we will be unable to use them and can write our own. 8-). > They are a feeble attempt at enabling and disabling services. If we want > that sort of thing, let's build some sort of super-server (like init or inetd) > to look after them properly (plus some system admin tool to flip them on > and off, and maybe keep track of dependencies on other servers). Let's not > embrace this particular bit of System V. I know. We can call the "super-server" 'init' and we can call the gross control of classes of service 'run levels'. 8-) 8-) 8-). > and having /etc/rc.ports run from /etc/rc. If you want a read-only root > filesystem, symlink /etc to some place writable first, then carry on. You > want /etc to be read only? How do you get anything done? No one adds users > or changes passwords? No alias file updates? You must have built a custom > /etc to still be enjoying your life, so add a symlink from /etc/rc.ports to > /var/some/thing or /usr/local/whatever while you are at it. You must have > *SOME* writable directories if you expect ports to load! :-) Not if you load the ports onto the NFS server and expect all diskless or dataless clients to be able to use them. The real bitch is a mixture of preloaded and client specific ports. I don't know if that's a reasonable configuration or not. > Let's keep this as simple as we can. All these grand schemes for hoards > of shell scripts called from 'for' loops make me nervous. Is it safer in > one of the other BSD camps? (Only kidding guys! No rocks! Oww!) The 'for' loops for implementation make me nervous as well. The init we are using supports the directory and run level transitions necessary with a few compilation options (or at least it used to). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 12:18:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24725 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:18:48 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24695 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:18:26 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id VAA23358 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:18:10 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id VAA14338 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:18:10 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.Freenix.FR (8.7/keltia-uucp-2.5.1) id UAA25099; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:35:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199509211835.UAA25099@keltia.Freenix.FR> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:35:04 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: patl@asimov.volant.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509211256.WAA17842@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen McKay" at Sep 21, 95 10:56:53 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1085 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a+] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Stephen McKay said: > What do we need run levels for? As far as I can tell, it's never done me > any good on the System V boxes I've administered. I want single-user mode > for serious system munging, and multi-user mode for everything else. The > rest is useless crap. If, say, cron is spinning madly out of control and you I agree with that. Having a scheme like /etc/rc.d can be useful but we can live without run-level. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.Freenix.FR 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Sep 10 18:50:19 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 12:20:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA24836 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:20:26 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA24821 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:20:19 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id VAA23362 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:18:11 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id VAA14341 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:18:10 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.Freenix.FR (8.7/keltia-uucp-2.5.1) id UAA25123; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:42:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199509211842.UAA25123@keltia.Freenix.FR> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: patl@asimov.volant.org Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:42:00 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, gryphon@healer.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <9509211530.AA22279@asimov.volant.org> from "patl@asimov.volant.org" at Sep 21, 95 08:30:32 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1085 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a+] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that patl@asimov.volant.org said: > fs > Subdir for each installed loadable filesystem type > (hsfs, nfs, proc, ufs) Each subdir (except proc) > contains an executable binary named 'mount'. (proc > is empty.) That's stupid to put binaries in /etc. /sbin is supposed to be here to help getting rid of these binaries. > lib > ia_scheme.so, ld.so.1, libdl.so.1, nss_files.so.1, > unix_scheme.so.1 Why do they expect to gain by this ? Again they should go to either /usr/lib. > skel > Default user rc files. (.profile, local.cshrc, > local.login, local.profile) /usr/share/skel is fine. > default > Default versions of some control files: cron, fs, init, > login, passwd, su, tar, utmpd This is not a bad idea. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.Freenix.FR 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Sep 10 18:50:19 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 12:49:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA25816 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:49:58 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA25796 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:49:49 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA09251; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:45:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509211945.MAA09251@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:45:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: patl@asimov.volant.org, chuckr@eng.umd.edu, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, gryphon@healer.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199509211842.UAA25123@keltia.Freenix.FR> from "Ollivier Robert" at Sep 21, 95 08:42:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 470 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > fs > > Subdir for each installed loadable filesystem type > > (hsfs, nfs, proc, ufs) Each subdir (except proc) > > contains an executable binary named 'mount'. (proc > > is empty.) > > That's stupid to put binaries in /etc. /sbin is supposed to be here to help > getting rid of these binaries. I agree. /sbin/fs. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 13:23:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27370 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:23:18 -0700 Received: from crox.net.kiae.su (crox.net.kiae.su [144.206.130.72]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27360 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:23:12 -0700 Received: by crox.net.kiae.su id AAA00182; (8.6.9/vak/1.8a) Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:16:48 +0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org, sos@freebsd.org References: <199509180715.AAA05935@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: Organization: Cronyx Ltd. Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 00:16:47 +0400 X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] From: vak@cronyx.ru Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: sos@freebsd.org > > The 1.3 version is in -current (I committed the patches last week) > And yes it still has problems with some old IDE disks that gets > confused by the ATAPI probestuff. I'm not sure taht this is solvable > at this point... The new version of wdreset() should solve this problem. Look for the patch in freebsd-current. Serge --- Serge Vakulenko Cronyx Ltd., Moscow Unix consulting and custom programming phone: +7 (095) 939-23-23 FreeBSD support fax: +7 (095) 939-03-00 Relcom network development From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 13:25:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27501 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:25:27 -0700 Received: from crash.ops.neosoft.com (root@crash.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27496 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:25:23 -0700 Received: (from smace@localhost) by crash.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id PAA07258 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:25:42 -0500 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199509212025.PAA07258@crash.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: RSd ported to freebsd To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:25:41 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 274 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just finished up my port of RSd the route server daemon from the routing arbiter project. I'll try to make a 'freebsd style' port later on this week. ftp://ftp.neosoft.com/pub/routing.arbiter/RSd-freebsd.tar.gz I will be submitting my diffs to the ra project. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 13:40:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28003 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:40:37 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA27996 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:40:30 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA09392; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:40:04 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509212040.NAA09392@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: RSd ported to freebsd To: smace@crash.ops.neosoft.com (Scott Mace) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509212025.PAA07258@crash.ops.neosoft.com> from "Scott Mace" at Sep 21, 95 03:25:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 377 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What Is it? can you put it on ftp.freebsd.org/pub/incoming. (with a README) > > I just finished up my port of RSd the route server daemon > from the routing arbiter project. > > I'll try to make a 'freebsd style' port later on this week. > > ftp://ftp.neosoft.com/pub/routing.arbiter/RSd-freebsd.tar.gz > > I will be submitting my diffs to the ra project. > > Scott > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 13:51:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28464 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:51:24 -0700 Received: from crash.ops.neosoft.com (root@crash.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28459 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:51:18 -0700 Received: (from smace@localhost) by crash.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id PAA07772; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:51:37 -0500 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199509212051.PAA07772@crash.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: Re: RSd ported to freebsd To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:51:36 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509212040.NAA09392@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 21, 95 01:40:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 643 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > What Is it? > can you put it on ftp.freebsd.org/pub/incoming. (with a README) Well, its essentially a trimmed down cornell gated with a new route table layer. Its a specialized BGP speaker that is used at NAP (network access points) by the Routing Arbiter project to simplfy and streamline BGP peering. > > > > I just finished up my port of RSd the route server daemon > > from the routing arbiter project. > > > > I'll try to make a 'freebsd style' port later on this week. > > > > ftp://ftp.neosoft.com/pub/routing.arbiter/RSd-freebsd.tar.gz > > > > I will be submitting my diffs to the ra project. > > > > Scott > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 14:02:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA28822 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:02:48 -0700 Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA28815 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:02:41 -0700 From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA10507; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:01:27 -0700 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA22801; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:06:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:06:54 -0700 Message-Id: <9509212106.AA22801@asimov.volant.org> To: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, gryphon@healer.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, ports@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> Pat writes: |> > Coranth Gryphon wrote: |> > +> When are you going to start a daemon in more than one place? |> > +> Or set a global environment variable, then change it later? |> > +> |> > +> Define it as "Run Level N" includes all "Run Level 0..N-1". Simple. |> |> > If it really were that simple, why didn't SVr4 do it that way? |> |> You're asking why an OS that I think has a lousy implementation |> of run levels didn't do it right in the first place? :-) |> |> Answer: I don't know why they didn't do it right. That doesn't |> stop us from doing it right, does it? Perhaps I was being too subtle. I meant to point out that it might -NOT- be as simple as it looks at first glance. We should find out why they did it the way they did before we reject it. And we should investigate any existing variations. (Does Solaris 2.4 do it the same way as SVr4? Does HP-UX? Does...) |> > But differences just because "we aren't System V" only hurt us. We |> |> Granted. But keeping it identical just because they did like that is |> just as bad. Takes the best parts, the ideas that work. Keep anything |> that does not make a difference the same (to satisfy the "no gratuitous |> changes" camp), but be willing to change what we don't like for our sake. Right. |> > don't want people refusing to run FreeBSD because it is too different |> > from the other unixes, (without significant advantage) do we? |> |> Then keep it only BSD and stop trying to System-V-ize it. Nope, won't work. That just means that other unixes will continue to evolve away from us, and increase the degree of differences. |> > +> 8-10 unix flavors that I work with. So which one are you going |> > +> to clone? |> |> >We have two reasonable choices: |> > 1. Whichever one we feel is technically superior. |> > 2. The one with the biggest market presence (Solaris2). |> |> Neither. Build our own implementation, the way FreeBSD wants it, |> that conforms to the basic framework. Right. I was responding within the implicit assumption that we were going to clone something. I should have made it clear that cloning wasn't the only (or possibly even the best) solution. |> If I want to use Solaris, I'll use Solaris. I don't want FreeBSD |> to just become a cheap Solaris clone. Worse things could happen. But I agree - FreeBSD shouldn't become a cheap -anything- clone. On the other hand, Solaris has done a lot of things pretty well, and a lot of unix users are familiar with it. If their solutions fit our problems, and we can't come up with a significantly better solution, it is reasonable to consider copying the Solaris solution. |> > The current /usr/share/skel is a fine location. |> |> Except when you want to change default dot files. Then have |> to redo it after each install. That's a major problem with our install process. One of the nice things about the Solaris pkg_add system is that the package can have per-file actions for how to deal with files that have changed since the previous install. (The most common choices are: 1. Rename the changed version and install the new one. 2. Install the new one under a different name. 3. Just leave the old one in place. But the install script can do anything you like.) -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 14:52:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA00660 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:52:01 -0700 Received: from npd.ufsc.br (npd.ufsc.br [150.162.1.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00506 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:44:02 -0700 Received: from mtm (mtm.ufsc.br [150.162.1.32]) by npd.ufsc.br (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA31421; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:29:37 -0500 Received: by mtm (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02072; Wed, 20 Sep 95 21:31:53 EST Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:31:53 -0300 (EST) From: lenzi X-Sender: lenzi@mtm To: "Rashid Karimov." Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: postgres95-beta0.03 . In-Reply-To: <199509151741.NAA26416@haven.ios.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the postgres95 release..... I have build the "beast" from the original at berkeley. It works all right using the sql works fine. Next week, if you are interesting, i'll put an "diff file" and send it to you. OK??? Or, if someone else is interested, i'll put the diff file in an anonymous ftp... the dif is about 70K. Best regards, Lenzi, Sergio email: lenzi@mtm.ufsc.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 15:16:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA01593 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:16:53 -0700 Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA01583 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:16:50 -0700 Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA03343; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:15:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:15:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: John Hay cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Masterplan 1.00 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199509142028.WAA10137@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, John Hay wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > I am attempting to get masterplan working under FreeBSD but have > > been unsuccessful so I emailed the author and was told that FreeBSD > > doesn't allow named pipes to be created. Can anyone confirm this and > > know what I can do to get masterplan working? Thanks.. > > > It is just called something else. mkfifo Thanks but I changed everything from mknod to mkfifo but somehow the number of times I got fingered doesn't seem to work... Cheers, -Vince- vince@apollo.COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 16:01:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA02659 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:01:15 -0700 Received: from amigalib.com (fishpond.amigalib.com [165.247.33.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA02650 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:01:12 -0700 Received: by amigalib.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #64) id m0svueZ-0004nZC; Thu, 21 Sep 95 16:03 MST Message-Id: From: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) Subject: latest freebsd port of wu-ftpd To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:03:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 857 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I downloaded the wu-ftpd-2.4.tar.Z file from wuarchive in packages/wuarchive-ftpd and tried to build it on FreeBSD 2.0.5 without much success. Is there a later version available somewhere else, or preferably one that is already ported to freebsd, other than what came in binary form on the Walnut Creek 2.0.5 CD-ROM? I did notice that there are patches on the CD-ROM for wu-ftpd, but it wasn't immediately obvious what version they were against, nor where to get the original source that they were relative to. I suppose I could try hacking them into the 2.4 archive, but before doing much with this I thought I would check here first for pointers. I do notice that the wu-ftpd at freebsd.org identifies itself as 2.4(1) and the one at wuarchive as 2.4(3). Are these site local revision numbers or do they have some other significance. Thanks! -Fred From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 16:18:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA03394 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:18:49 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA03380 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:18:41 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA14513 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:48:58 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA03512 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:30:39 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA03428; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:26:59 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509212226.RAA03428@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Policy on printf format specifiers? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:26:59 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199509211755.KAA08994@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 21, 95 10:55:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 942 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Records must do one of three things with Runic encoding schemes: > 1) Not contain a fixed amount of data for a fixed length field. This is acceptable, and doesn't lose information. > 2) Be larger than they have to be to take runic expansion into > account for fixed length fields, with a high average wastage. This is acceptable, and doesn't lose information. The wastage is at worst no worse than the wastage from using wide characters, since you can use whatever wide character encoding you consider preferable to runic encoding in your fixed record files. There is no third option to wide character and runic encoding. > 3) Be variable length, giving up the relationship between file > size and record count. This is acceptable. Fixed record files are extremely rare in UNIX anyway. 4) Be wide enough to hold the characters in fixed width encoding, but use runic encoding when possible, and thus gain the advantages of both. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 17:54:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA07009 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:54:43 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@[194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA07004 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:54:38 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA00537 for Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:54:42 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199509220054.CAA00537@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: port tcp/1025 ? To: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers' List) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:54:42 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 319 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello. Is there anyone who knows what could listen on port tcp 1025 in a FBSD 1.1.5.1 system? Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 18:15:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA07639 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:15:01 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it (root@[194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA07628 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:14:56 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA00669 for Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 03:14:53 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199509220114.DAA00669@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Ugen: user unknown To: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers' List) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 03:14:53 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 603 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello. It seems a lot of people is having mail problems :) ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- ugen@worldbank.org (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to gatewy.worldbank.org.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 553 unknown or illegal user: ugen@worldbank.org 550 ugen@worldbank.org... User unknown Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 18:20:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA07876 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:20:24 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA07871 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:20:21 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA27314; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:18:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509220118.SAA27314@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: port tcp/1025 ? To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:18:22 -0700 (MST) Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509220054.CAA00537@strider.ibenet.it> from "Piero Serini" at Sep 22, 95 02:54:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 313 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is there anyone who knows what could listen on port tcp 1025 in > a FBSD 1.1.5.1 system? Anything that opened it and issues a listen. I'd suggest an FTP data connection? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 18:28:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08066 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:28:33 -0700 Received: from strider.ibenet.it ([194.179.130.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08057 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:28:28 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by strider.ibenet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA00805; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 03:27:30 +0200 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199509220127.DAA00805@strider.ibenet.it> Subject: Re: port tcp/1025 ? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 03:27:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: piero@strider.ibenet.it, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509220118.SAA27314@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 21, 95 06:18:22 pm Reply-To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Operating-System: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 X-Phone-Number: +39 (2) 58113562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 539 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Terry Lambert (Fri Sep 22 03:18:22 1995): > > > Is there anyone who knows what could listen on port tcp 1025 in > > a FBSD 1.1.5.1 system? > > Anything that opened it and issues a listen. Thanks :) > I'd suggest an FTP data connection? No ftp either incoming or outgoing. Any other ideas? Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 I 20136 Milano - ITALY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 18:48:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08655 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:48:34 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08646 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:48:29 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15834 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:36:37 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA08088; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:30:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:30:41 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509220130.UAA08088@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509202303.QAA01795@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [not really ports-specific any more] >> I'd really apreciate one thing. I've noticed an extreme and virulent >> allergy some folks have to doing the startup tasks ala SVR4 style. I do >> know that style. Can one of you tell me if there's any strong reason >> against doing things in that mode, other than simple prejudice? >It requires the implementation of run levels. Not really. Digital UNIX uses it and doesn't really implement run levels. A simpler version could be implemented: In /etc/rc: for file in /etc/rc.d/S* do [ -x $i ] && $i start done In shutdown, execute "/etc/sd" that does this: for file in /etc/rc.d/K* do [ -x $i ] && $i stop done If you call "halt" or "reboot" directly you bypass this. Otherwise you get formal shutdown for programs that want it (mostly databases). From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 18:49:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08679 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:49:13 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08672 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:49:08 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15951 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:47:39 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA08249; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:33:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:33:47 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509220133.UAA08249@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <9509210011.AA06450@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> References: <199509202303.QAA01795@phaeton.artisoft.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <9509210011.AA06450@emu.fsl.noaa.gov>, Sean Kelly wrote: >I so much prefer just looking through /etc/rc.local (and now, >/etc/sysconfig) since it collects in one place the needed stuff. The problem is that *when* you have something complex, you have to pull that stuff out of /etc/rc.local instead of just running /etc/init.d/foo stop. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 18:49:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08696 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:49:26 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08691 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:49:23 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15955 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:47:51 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA08476; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:43:46 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:43:46 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509220143.UAA08476@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: References: <9509210239.AA21415@asimov.volant.org> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article , Chuck Robey wrote: >3) Removing the perceived bugs in that other system makes it different > from the original, displeasing those that happened to have a lot of > experience using it, and don't want to learn another. Nobody has a problem with changing things, just changing them without a good reason. Going to consistently running the shutdown scripts is a change for a good reason. Making the four basic levels mean something different is a bad one (especially since the one suggested doesn't provide for a way to say "shut down to halt"). From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 18:49:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08723 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:49:44 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08718 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:49:39 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15831 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:36:29 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA07979; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:25:10 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:25:10 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509220125.UAA07979@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509201159.EAA04965@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199509201159.EAA04965@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>, Satoshi Asami wrote: >(1) /etc/rc.d > - Ports shouldn't touch anything in the root filesystem > + Central location, easy to maintain > + Per-machine configuration possible even if /usr/local is NFS shared + Complete system configuration backed up by tarring /etc. Though for that last, /var/db/pkg, /var/at/jobs, and /var/cron/tabs should also be in /etc. - Other ports configuration scripts are in /usr/local/{etc,lib} [ aside: /var/db/pkg and so on are a problem. Just about everything else in /var can safely be considered "volatile", you don't lose system integrity by losing them... ] I like /etc/rc.d for all sorts of reasons that you've all already seen. >(2) /usr/local/etc/rc.d > - Shouldn't fix certain location > - If /usr/local is NFS shared, per-machine configuration is cumbersome This is a problem anyway, since there are other per-machine config files in /usr/local. > - X ports (which have PREFIX=${X11BASE}) have no way to know where > this tree is X ports are a general problem... I really want them to be in /usr/local as well. I wish Imake didn't use BIN to look for things like install. >May I have your comments, ladies and gentlemen? I prefer option 2. It doesn't break anything that's not broken already. Option 4 is OK, but only because X ports are already broken. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 18:53:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA08937 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:53:27 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08932 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:53:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id CAA03637 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:52:45 +0100 To: piero@strider.ibenet.it cc: "FreeBSD Hackers' List" Subject: Re: Ugen: user unknown In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 Sep 1995 03:14:53 +0200." <199509220114.DAA00669@strider.ibenet.it> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:52:44 +0100 Message-ID: <3635.811734764@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199509220114.DAA00669@strider.ibenet.it>, Piero Serini writes: > ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- >ugen@worldbank.org (unrecoverable error) err. ugen@latte.worldbank.org I believe. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 19:15:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA09885 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:15:22 -0700 Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA09877 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:15:19 -0700 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA04180 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:14:44 -0700 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199509220214.TAA04180@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: dumb mistake To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:14:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 641 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I sent an email to this list this morning regarding the make targets in the FreeBSD makefile (/usr/src/Makefile) and how to make customized distributions, etc. Unfortunately, due to unrelated events I lost all messages to the hackers mailing list today.... if someone could kindly send me any replies, or better yet all mail on the list received today, I would greatly appreciate it (the archive is only updated every week apparently). Sorry for the confusion. Thanks, -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 19:17:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA09975 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:17:08 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA09965 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:17:03 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA27475; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:14:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509220214.TAA27475@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: port tcp/1025 ? To: piero@strider.ibenet.it Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:14:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199509220127.DAA00805@strider.ibenet.it> from "Piero Serini" at Sep 22, 95 03:27:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 682 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Quoting from Terry Lambert (Fri Sep 22 03:18:22 1995): > > > > > Is there anyone who knows what could listen on port tcp 1025 in > > > a FBSD 1.1.5.1 system? > > > > Anything that opened it and issues a listen. > > Thanks :) > > > I'd suggest an FTP data connection? > > No ftp either incoming or outgoing. Any other ideas? Network blackjack? 8-). Seriously, any use of socket() will result in ports starting at 1025 and going up. You need to get the lsof port for more info as to who exactly holds the fd that goes to that socket. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 19:18:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA10031 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:18:29 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA10022 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:18:22 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA16158 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:03:01 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA08855; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:55:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:55:03 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509220155.UAA08855@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509211600.MAA00421@healer.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199509211600.MAA00421@healer.com>, Coranth Gryphon wrote: >> cron.d >Crontab entries already exist in /var/cron/tabs, except for root's entry >which is in /etc. You could easily move it to /var/cron/tabs as well. I'd rather go the other way, and move them all under /etc. Keep all the config files in one place. Same with at... I approve of the move of uucp to /etc, though it took me a while to get used to it. It could have gone in /usr/etc as easily. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 19:46:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA11160 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:46:32 -0700 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA11141 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:46:25 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7.Gamma.0/8.7.Gamma.0) with ESMTP id WAA14046; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id WAA17207; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:46:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Piero Serini cc: "FreeBSD Hackers' List" Subject: Re: port tcp/1025 ? In-Reply-To: <199509220054.CAA00537@strider.ibenet.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Piero Serini wrote: > Hello. > > Is there anyone who knows what could listen on port tcp 1025 in > a FBSD 1.1.5.1 system? Loaded the 1.1 cdrom, grepped /etc/services for "1025", nil. > > Bye, > -- > # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ > Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 > I 20136 Milano - ITALY > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 20:05:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA11892 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:05:23 -0700 Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA11887 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:05:19 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7.Gamma.0/8.7.Gamma.0) with ESMTP id XAA14240; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id XAA17725; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:04:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Piero Serini cc: Terry Lambert , piero@strider.ibenet.it, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: port tcp/1025 ? In-Reply-To: <199509220127.DAA00805@strider.ibenet.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Piero Serini wrote: > Hello. > > Quoting from Terry Lambert (Fri Sep 22 03:18:22 1995): > > > > > Is there anyone who knows what could listen on port tcp 1025 in > > > a FBSD 1.1.5.1 system? > > > > Anything that opened it and issues a listen. > > Thanks :) > > > I'd suggest an FTP data connection? I just realized I hadn't grepped the -current /etc/services: blackjack 1025/tcp #network blackjack blackjack 1025/udp #network blackjack Are you being hit by gameplayers? > > No ftp either incoming or outgoing. Any other ideas? > > Bye, > -- > # $Id: .signature,v 1.12 1995/08/14 12:10:54 piero Exp $ > Piero Serini Via Giambologna, 1 > I 20136 Milano - ITALY > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 21:58:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA15065 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:58:00 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15060 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:57:53 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id AAA02379; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:23:11 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:23:11 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509220423.AAA02379@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Thu Sep 21 22:07:39 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:39:56 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199509210639.IAA14650@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <199509202303.QAA01795@phaeton.artisoft.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) > J Wunsch wrote: > >I will yet have to see a single SysV that handles all run-level > >transitions correctly. :-) > That's because they're trying to be fancy with them. If you make them > monotonic and stick to that instead of having complex /etc/rcN scripts > there's no problem. > Just because System V got them wrong doesn't mean we have to. Strongly seconded! :-) > >8 run-levels are IMVVVHO far too much to handle all permutations of > >them. 3 are better to handle (stop, single, multi). > I would prefer four, and only four. Terry identified them pretty well: > 0 (stop), 1 (single), 2 (multi), 3 (full/network) I'd be happy with this. We can do the "/etc/rc.#/script" concept, with each run level starting everything for the previous run level. > The System V levels are a good idea. NOT running rc1.d/K* on the > way down is a bad one. The concept is a good idea. It's the implentation that we're arguing about - whether we do it their way, or (since we are unique ANYWAY, and will remain so) doing it our way. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 21:58:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA15095 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:58:26 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15078 ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:58:16 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id AAA02389; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:27:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:27:36 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509220427.AAA02389@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) > Satoshi Asami wrote: > >(1) /etc/rc.d > > - Ports shouldn't touch anything in the root filesystem > > + Central location, easy to maintain > > + Per-machine configuration possible even if /usr/local is NFS shared > + Complete system configuration backed up by tarring /etc. > Though for that last, /var/db/pkg, /var/at/jobs, and /var/cron/tabs should > also be in /etc. > aside: /var/db/pkg and so on are a problem. Just about everything else > in /var can safely be considered "volatile", you don't lose system Crontab entries, yes. Package data, I could go either way with. Aren't "at" jobs single shot, therefore volotile? > - Other ports configuration scripts are in /usr/local/{etc,lib} > > >(2) /usr/local/etc/rc.d > This is a problem anyway, since there are other per-machine config files > in /usr/local. That's part of the complaint. They shouldn't be. > I like /etc/rc.d for all sorts of reasons that you've all already seen. Agreed, but if we go with run levels "/etc/rc.#/..." -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 23:42:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA17116 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:42:30 -0700 Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA17111 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:42:28 -0700 Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA04423; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:41:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:41:33 -0700 (PDT) From: -Vince- To: Jake Hamby cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: RE: Masterplan 1.00 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, -Vince- wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I am attempting to get masterplan working under FreeBSD but have > > been unsuccessful so I emailed the author and was told that FreeBSD > > doesn't allow named pipes to be created. Can anyone confirm this and > > know what I can do to get masterplan working? Thanks.. > > FreeBSD does allow named pipes, but NOT with the mknod() function. What you > will need to do is change all references of mknod() to the mkfifo() command, > which, unlike mknod(), doesn't require root privileges. The problem is that > many other operating systems support BOTH mknod() and mkfifo() for named > pipes, but FreeBSD only supports mkfifo() for this purpose. What you'll > need to do is change all references of: > > mknod( foo, S_IFIFO | permission, ignored) > > to > > mkfifo( foo, permission) I tried that already by changing all references of mknod to mkfifo and somehow it runs but it will say broken pipe when someone tries to finger me and won't display my plan as well and the program won't exit. I tried removing the S_IFIFO and the same thing happens. > ...Just remove the middle S_IFIFO constant and leave off the last argument. > The last argument to mknod is ignored (and will probably be 0), but the > second argument in both cases specifies the access permissions. The > first argument is going to be the path of the fifo to create (e.g. > "/tmp/myfifo" or a variable name). Hope this helps.. Any ideas what else I can do? Cheers, -Vince- vince@apollo.COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 23:53:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA17461 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:53:11 -0700 Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA17456 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:53:10 -0700 Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA06589; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:52:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:52:17 -0700 (PDT) From: -Vince- To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: RE: Masterplan 1.00 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Chuck Robey wrote: Hi Chuck and everyone, > On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, -Vince- wrote: > > > I am attempting to get masterplan working under FreeBSD but have > > been unsuccessful so I emailed the author and was told that FreeBSD > > doesn't allow named pipes to be created. Can anyone confirm this and > > know what I can do to get masterplan working? Thanks.. > > I've never seen masterplan, but named pipes (fifos) do exist under > FreeBSD. Take a look at the mkfifo man page. I think they require one > or more of the SYSV IPC kernel options, SYSVSHM, SYSVSEM, and SYSVMSG. I tried replacing mknod with mkfifo as what Jordan and everyone else told me but when it tried to write, it said broken pipe =( Anyone out there used masterplan under FreeBSD? Cheers, -Vince- vince@apollo.COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 08:48:03 -0700 > > From: Laurion Burchall (Exchange) > > To: '-Vince-' > > Subject: RE: Masterplan 1.00 > > > > I don't think that FreeBSD allows named pipes to be created. I know that NetBSD does though... > > > > --laurion > > > > ---------- > > From: -Vince-[SMTP:vince@penzance.econ.yale.edu] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 1995 1:18 AM > > To: ldb@netspace.org > > Subject: Masterplan 1.00 > > > > Hi there, > > > > I am trying to install Masterplan 1.00 under FreeBSD but am > > having a problem as this is what happens when I run masterplan -d > > > > vince@apollo [3:16pm][~] >> masterplan -d > > masterplan: mknod(/tmp/.masterplan.pipe.vince-.plan): Operation not permitted > > > > Any ideas what's wrong? > > > > Also, as root user, do I need to run masterplan -d for each > > individual user or will one background process work for everyone? Thanks > > again and Have a nice labor day! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD > (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Sep 21 23:58:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA17604 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:58:04 -0700 Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA17599 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:58:02 -0700 Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA06610; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:54:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:53:59 -0700 (PDT) From: -Vince- To: John Hay cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Masterplan 1.00 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199509142028.WAA10137@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, John Hay wrote: Hi John and everyone, > > I am attempting to get masterplan working under FreeBSD but have > > been unsuccessful so I emailed the author and was told that FreeBSD > > doesn't allow named pipes to be created. Can anyone confirm this and > > know what I can do to get masterplan working? Thanks.. > > > It is just called something else. mkfifo Oh okay but is there really anything different about mknod and mkfifo? Cheers, -Vince- vince@apollo.COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 00:21:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA18168 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:21:49 -0700 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA18077 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:18:50 -0700 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA10372; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:10:22 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199509220710.JAA10372@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Masterplan 1.00 (fwd) To: vince@apollo.COSC.GOV (-Vince-) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:10:21 +0200 (SAT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "-Vince-" at Sep 21, 95 11:53:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1353 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, John Hay wrote: > > Hi John and everyone, > > > > I am attempting to get masterplan working under FreeBSD but have > > > been unsuccessful so I emailed the author and was told that FreeBSD > > > doesn't allow named pipes to be created. Can anyone confirm this and > > > know what I can do to get masterplan working? Thanks.. > > > > > It is just called something else. mkfifo > > Oh okay but is there really anything different about mknod and mkfifo? > Well I'm not sure, not having used it on other machines that have mknod. Here is a piece of a program that create the fifo and open the read side. if (mkfifo(pipe_pathname, (mode_t)(S_IREAD | S_IWRITE)) == -1) if (errno != EEXIST) return errno; /* * Open `read' end of the pipe. * (The probe daemon will open the `write' end shortly.) */ if ((probe_rdport = open(pipe_pathname, O_RDONLY | O_NDELAY)) == -1) return errno; And here is the piece that open it for writing: /* open `write' end of pipe */ if ((pipe_wrport = open(argv[1], O_WRONLY | O_NDELAY)) == -1) { syslog(LOG_CRIT, "Cannot open write end of pipe: %m"); terminate(); } I hope this helps. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 02:58:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA23013 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:58:02 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA23005 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:57:56 -0700 Received: from npd.ufsc.br (npd.ufsc.br [150.162.1.3]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA06635 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:56:18 -0700 Received: from mtm (mtm.ufsc.br [150.162.1.32]) by npd.ufsc.br (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA47657; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:43:38 -0500 Received: by mtm (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01947; Fri, 22 Sep 95 06:47:22 EST Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:47:21 -0300 (EST) From: lenzi X-Sender: lenzi@mtm To: "Rashid Karimov." Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: postgres95-beta0.03 . In-Reply-To: <199509211605.MAA16747@haven.ios.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok Rashid, Next week I'll be in my site at Forianopolis, there is a anonymous ftp called zebra.mtm.ufsc.br. I'll put a package in there with the binaries for you.. Please call me next week (by tuesdey) Thanks for the interest... Lenzi, Sergio email: lenzi@mtm.ufsc.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 03:25:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA24241 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 03:25:09 -0700 Received: from npd.ufsc.br (npd.ufsc.br [150.162.1.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA24216 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 03:23:22 -0700 Received: from mtm (mtm.ufsc.br [150.162.1.32]) by npd.ufsc.br (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA17649; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:18:08 -0500 Received: by mtm (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01973; Fri, 22 Sep 95 07:20:50 EST Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:20:49 -0300 (EST) From: lenzi X-Sender: lenzi@mtm To: Hellmuth Michaelis Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: postgres95-beta0.03 . In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK folks, I'll put the diffs also... Thanks for the interest, If anyone is interest int ingres, I have it working with all bugs deads (I hope). Ingres is being used by several video shops... without breaking... By, Lenzi, Sergio email: lenzi@mtm.ufsc.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 04:07:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA25697 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 04:07:26 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA25685 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 04:07:21 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA06958 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 04:06:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA24680; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:01:36 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199509221101.RAA24680@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:01:35 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509211228.IAA23028@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 21, 95 08:28:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1205 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Serge Babkin (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) comments: > >Coranth Gryhon writes: > > +> Yuk. One sub-directory of /etc being used just to have symlinks to > > +> another sub-directory of /etc? > > > Old SCO had hard links and it was a big problem because they had a bad > > trend to restore as separate files from backups. So symbolic links > > look better. > > I've had the unfortunate experience of using SCO and its > "/var/.../sco/K/.../*" links. Please god not again. > > Symbolic links are only needed if you cannot put something in the place > that it belongs for some reason. Startup and config information belongs > in /etc/... (that's what the directory is there for). > > If you NEED to put it in another place (/usr/X11 or /usr/local) then > fine, put a symlink in /etc. Else just put it orignally in /etc. Yes, their place in SCO is very strange. But IMO the idea of symlinks is good or at least much better than hard links. Just place these scripts in /etc instead of /var/.../sco/K/*. Or make 'start' and 'stop' scripts really different files without any links. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 05:59:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA28460 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 05:59:41 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA28443 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 05:59:36 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id FAA29224; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 05:59:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 05:59:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199509221259.FAA29224@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: smace@crash.ops.neosoft.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199509212025.PAA07258@crash.ops.neosoft.com> (message from Scott Mace on Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:25:41 -0500 (CDT)) Subject: Re: RSd ported to freebsd From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * I'll try to make a 'freebsd style' port later on this week. Great! Please send mail to "ports@freebsd.org" when you upload it to ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/. Thanks! Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 06:44:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA01385 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:44:03 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA01379 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:44:01 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA18918 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:48:50 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199509221348.JAA18918@ns1.win.net> Subject: Guido's pwd_mkdb improvements To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:48:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 309 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've been running Guido's pwd_mkdb improvements on my production servers for a couple of days now with no apparent problems. We've been adding and updating records very quickly. Thanks to Guido for doing the work on this. Regards, Mark Hittinger Internet Manager WinNET Communications, Inc. bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 06:49:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA01628 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:49:47 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA01607 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:49:40 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA20435 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:36:22 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA20502; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:35:51 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509221335.IAA20502@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:35:50 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com, ports@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509220427.AAA02389@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 22, 95 00:27:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 847 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Crontab entries, yes. Package data, I could go either way with. Package data could equally well go in /usr/local. It really doesn't belong in /var. > Aren't "at" jobs single shot, therefore volotile? I have seen people running "at" jobs that re-triggered themselves, to get the effect of variable-period rescheduling too complex for cron. You could do as well with a cron-run daemon that read a more complex schedule file. I'll buy "at" in var. I think /etc/dumpdates might go in /var as well. > > This is a problem anyway, since there are other per-machine config files > > in /usr/local. > That's part of the complaint. They shouldn't be. /usr/local/ghostscript/3.0/Fontmap? System V uses "/etc/default" for per-package config files. They're not really templates, they're things like /etc/csh.login. /etc/default/ghostscript/Fontmap? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 06:56:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA03130 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:56:53 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA03106 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:56:43 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id JAA03564; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:57:22 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:57:22 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509221357.JAA03564@healer.com> To: gryphon@healer.com, peter@taronga.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:35:50 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com, ports@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509220427.AAA02389@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 22, 95 00:27:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 847 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) > Coranth Gryphon wrote: > +> Crontab entries, yes. Package data, I could go either way with. > Package data could equally well go in /usr/local. > It really doesn't belong in /var. > I'll buy "at" in var. I think /etc/dumpdates might go in /var as well. This all works for me. >> > This is a problem anyway, since there are other per-machine config files >> > in /usr/local. > +> That's part of the complaint. They shouldn't be. > /usr/local/ghostscript/3.0/Fontmap? OK. Something I do not use, so have no experience with. The general point is that if it can reasonable change from system to system, then it belongs in /etc. If it definately will change from system to system, put it in one easy-to-get-to place (I use /etc/inet for all my host-specific files). If it is a generic configuration that won't likely ever change, it can go anywhere it wants. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 07:18:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA04705 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:18:43 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA04697 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:18:36 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA20613 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:02:46 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA20833 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:55:52 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:55:52 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509221355.IAA20833@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts References: <199509211228.IAA23028@healer.com> <199509221101.RAA24680@hq.icb.chel.su> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199509221101.RAA24680@hq.icb.chel.su>, Serge A. Babkin wrote: >Or make 'start' and 'stop' scripts really different files without any links. Please, no. Link 'em or symlink 'em. Digital Unix screwed up by putting them in /sbin, but they did this right: /sbin/init.d all scripts /sbin/rc*.d symlinks to init.d/... That gives you one place for finding all the service start/stop stuff (init.d), and you don't go editing rc3.d/S00frog and forget to update rc2.d/K85frog. The init.d directory becomes the one stop shop like /etc/rc[.local], and the rc*.d becomes your toggles like the YES/NO stuff in /etc/sysconfig, and it becomes easier to productise ports and packages that need to start up daemons. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 07:34:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA05209 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:34:54 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05199 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:34:50 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id KAA14943; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:23:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:23:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509221355.IAA20833@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Yes, if we are going to a many-scripts each performing one task paradigm, PLEASE do not place the scripts in more than one directory. flip-flopping around from place to place to figure out the boot sequence on ssyv machines drives me crazy.... On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > In article <199509221101.RAA24680@hq.icb.chel.su>, > Serge A. Babkin wrote: > >Or make 'start' and 'stop' scripts really different files without any links. > > Please, no. Link 'em or symlink 'em. Digital Unix screwed up by putting them > in /sbin, but they did this right: > > /sbin/init.d all scripts > /sbin/rc*.d symlinks to init.d/... > > That gives you one place for finding all the service start/stop stuff (init.d), > and you don't go editing rc3.d/S00frog and forget to update rc2.d/K85frog. > > The init.d directory becomes the one stop shop like /etc/rc[.local], and the > rc*.d becomes your toggles like the YES/NO stuff in /etc/sysconfig, and it > becomes easier to productise ports and packages that need to start up daemons. > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 07:42:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA05401 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:42:30 -0700 Received: from hoover.tanisys.com (hoover.tanisys.com [204.96.111.229]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05388 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:42:20 -0700 Received: from buren.Tanisys.com (buren.tanisys.com [204.96.111.250]) by hoover.tanisys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA00261 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:48:58 GMT Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:48:58 GMT Message-Id: <199509220948.JAA00261@hoover.tanisys.com> X-Sender: joshk@204.96.111.229 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: joshk@tanisys.com (Josh Karnes) Subject: trouble Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This is going to be along post, but bear with me. I have accumulated a bunch of problems and I'd like to fill y'all in on some history as well. We have a 386DX/8/160/FreeBSD2.0.1 over here that is our mail/web/ftp/slip (someday... more later) server. We replaced another 386 machine that was used for the same function, because we were running out of hard disk space and we kept getting file system errors and we thought the HD was ready to go. Well, we just copied everything verbatim from one machine to the other, and that was months ago. We still get the same nagging error message every day: "CLEAN FLAG IS WRONG IN SUPERBLOCK" "FIX? [yn]" We say "y", then reboot, then fsck and get the same error message. Recently, we have gotten other file system error messages (forgive me for not writing them down) something to do with "bitmap", and a bunch of these guys: UNREF FILE I=4267 OWNER=root MODE=100600 SIZE=673 MTIME=Sep 18 17:03 1995 CLEAR? with "I=" a bunch of different values every day. Some other errors too, I just can't remember them :-) So that's problem #1. I need to fix it fast. ---------- PROBLEM #2 ---------- SLIP. This has been a serious headache. Let me trace what I have done wrt SLIP. 1. Hook up an external Hayes Optima 14.4 modem and enable dialups following instructions exactly from www.freebsd.org. Set s0=1 and dial in, at any speed, you get jibberish. For kicks I connect a Microcom 28.8 modem instead, and dial in and I get a login: prompt like I should. My conclusion is that there is some speed-matching problem between the modem and the computer with the Hayes, so I just blow off the Hayes and stick with the Microcom. 2. Start working on SLIP. I configure everything exactly as instructed from the web pages, and dial in with MacSLIP from (of course) my Mac. After some tinkering, everything appears to work. Problem is that I can only communicate directly between the SLIP server and the client, and any packets bound for anywhere else get nowhere. I can ping the server, but not the Mac (from the Mac). This is how I had this configured: 204.96.111.229 ethernet card on the server 204.96.111.253 serial port on server 204.96.111.254 serial port on the Mac OK, so I know this was wrong. I'm just learnin' all this, ya know. 3. Got a good book on TCP/IP. The way I figure, it is a routing problem. Any packets sent to the client (now configured to the same address as the SLIP port, 204.96.111.253 on both ends of the serial connection) from some other host are not being forwarded from the ethernet card to the SLIP interface. After much deliberation, I concluded (for some reason that sounded good then but I can't remember now) that I needed to add the "-s" flag to routed. The pseudo-proxy-arp, btw, far as I can tell, has been configured properly all along. So I add "-s", as well as changing the addresses so they are the same on both ende of the SLIP line, and just when I think it is going to work... 4. Dial in, get jibberish !@%$!@#$!@# Just like the jibberish I got when I dialed in with the Hayes modem. Oh, did I mention that there was a power outage and the modem's memory (semi-volatile) got flushed? Can't even log in with a terminal (non-slip) connection anymore. It seems like a baud rate problem, or some other modem settings problem, but I think everything is set right! What gives??? _____________________________________________________________________________ Josh Karnes joshk@tanisys.com Senior Communications Specialist http://www.tanisys.com/~joshk/home.htm Tanisys Technology http://www.tanisys.com Austin, Texas '72 240Z | IZCC #308 _____________________________________________________________________________ *** opinions expressed herein are MINE, ALL MINE!! *** From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 07:50:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA05667 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:50:27 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05659 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:50:14 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id KAA03655; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:50:53 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:50:53 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509221450.KAA03655@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Serge A. Babkin wrote: > >Or make 'start' and 'stop' scripts really different files without any links. > Please, no. Link 'em or symlink 'em. Digital Unix screwed up by putting them > in /sbin, but they did this right: > /sbin/init.d all scripts > /sbin/rc*.d symlinks to init.d/... > That gives you one place for finding all the service start/stop stuff > and you don't go editing rc3.d/S00frog and forget to update rc2.d/K85frog. > The init.d directory becomes the one stop shop like /etc/rc[.local], and the > rc*.d becomes your toggles like the YES/NO stuff in /etc/sysconfig, and it > becomes easier to productise ports and packages that need to start up daemons. Why bother with "rc*" directories then? Just have an "inittab" (or "init.conf" or whatever) file which says what to start up and shut down when and then you can put them all in one directory. There is no reason to have symlinks a required part of anything. It looks like the "S" and "K" scripts are for starting and stopping things. There are two ways of doing this. First, you can have the "K" run when leaving a level (to go to a lower level not a higher one), and the "S" when entering a level (unless coming from a higher one). Never mind, that's overly complex. The other way is you run everything in a single directory (S and K) when going to that directory. This actually makes the most sense to me. Or trash the directory breakdown and go to a single file table, with the scripts in "init.d". -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 07:55:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA05798 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:55:42 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05791 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:55:34 -0700 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA21034 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:00:57 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:00:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199509221500.LAA21034@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Loadable Modules Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Where is the best (if there is any) information about wriing physical device modules? Is the module implementation stable and usable? Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Boards and Routers for Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 07:58:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA05890 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:58:43 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05883 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:58:35 -0700 Received: from websurfer.etinc.com (websurfer.etinc.com [204.141.95.5]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA21045 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:04:11 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:04:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199509221504.LAA21045@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: matcd driver Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The matcd driver in the generic distribution causes my system load to fail under several different hardware configurations. Its a very naughty little driver. Thank you for the "disable" feature, but something should be done. db "Don't have one so I can't fix it!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Boards and Routers for Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 09:23:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA09153 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:23:44 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA09066 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:21:18 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA28698; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:17:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199509221617.JAA28698@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Masterplan 1.00 (fwd) To: vince@apollo.COSC.GOV (-Vince-) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:17:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: chuckr@eng.umd.edu, FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "-Vince-" at Sep 21, 95 11:52:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1284 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I tried replacing mknod with mkfifo as what Jordan and everyone else > told me but when it tried to write, it said broken pipe =( Anyone out > there used masterplan under FreeBSD? Patch /sys/kern/uipc_socket.c: =========================================================================== *** FIFO_SAVE/uipc_socket.c Fri Sep 22 09:06:21 1995 --- uipc_socket.c Fri Sep 22 09:11:54 1995 *************** *** 359,366 **** goto out; do { s = splnet(); ! if (so->so_state & SS_CANTSENDMORE) snderr(EPIPE); if (so->so_error) snderr(so->so_error); if ((so->so_state & SS_ISCONNECTED) == 0) { --- 359,369 ---- goto out; do { s = splnet(); ! if (so->so_state & SS_CANTSENDMORE) { ! if (so->so_state & SS_NBIO) ! snderr(EWOULDBLOCK); snderr(EPIPE); + } if (so->so_error) snderr(so->so_error); if ((so->so_state & SS_ISCONNECTED) == 0) { =========================================================================== And rebuild your kernel. Probably this is not the only fix needed. The problem is that (apparently) you are using non-blocking I/O on the FIFO, and it doesn't work. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 09:42:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA09803 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:42:54 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA09792 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:42:45 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id SAA09831 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:42:01 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id SAA17766 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:42:00 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.Freenix.FR (8.7/keltia-uucp-2.5.1) id IAA29705; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:21:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199509220621.IAA29705@keltia.Freenix.FR> Subject: Re: latest freebsd port of wu-ftpd To: fnf@amigalib.com (Fred Fish) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:21:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, fnf@amigalib.com In-Reply-To: from "Fred Fish" at Sep 21, 95 04:03:38 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1085 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7a+] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Fred Fish said: > I downloaded the wu-ftpd-2.4.tar.Z file from wuarchive in > packages/wuarchive-ftpd and tried to build it on FreeBSD 2.0.5 without > much success. Is there a later version available somewhere else, or > preferably one that is already ported to freebsd, other than what came > in binary form on the Walnut Creek 2.0.5 CD-ROM? The 2.4 is the latest official version. > I did notice that there are patches on the CD-ROM for wu-ftpd, but it > wasn't immediately obvious what version they were against, nor where > to get the original source that they were relative to. I suppose I If you look at /usr/ports/net:wu-ftpd/Makefile, you'll get both version and where to get it. > I do notice that the wu-ftpd at freebsd.org identifies itself as > 2.4(1) and the one at wuarchive as 2.4(3). Are these site local > revision numbers or do they have some other significance. Thanks! This number shows how many times it has been compiled from the same directory. PS: this question really belong to "ports". -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.Freenix.FR 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Sep 10 18:50:19 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 10:30:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA11003 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:30:41 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10998 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:30:39 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA08820 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:26:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA05628 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:48:11 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: iijppp Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:48:09 +0100 Message-ID: <5626.811774089@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi I've got a setup which works for me, but it has it's problems. The cause: I filter which packets are used to dial out (the `dfilter'). One of the ports I ignore is the smtp port, so that when I send mail, it'll get queued rather than running up my phone bill. Then I can dial in when I've replied to my entire inbox and unbatch the mails. (I also filter DNS so that sendmail can't force a dial out that way either). Problem: sendmail doesn't know that it's packets are going to /dev/null. This lead to a problem yesterday in that sendmail timed out its attempts to contact the advertised MX hosts for a site, but I have a `fallback' MX defined, mainly 'cos the net doesn't seem reliable enough nowadays (at least when being accessed through my ISP) for me to just use advertised MX's. So, the mail went merrily off to my ISP's mail host for queueing and delivery. 17 hours later it appears at it's destination. Considering that the mail had time sensitive info in it, I was not best pleased. Suggestion: would it be a good idea to make IIJPPP return ``ICMP net unreachable'' or something when it receives packets which are ignored as a result of the dfilter, and the connection isn't up or in the process of coming up. It just seems daft to let things time out when we have the technology to handle this in a better fashion... Comments? Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 10:41:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA11359 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:41:21 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11353 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:41:20 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA11433; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:41:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199509221741.KAA11433@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Guido's pwd_mkdb improvements In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:48:49 EDT." <199509221348.JAA18918@ns1.win.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:41:11 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk How many users does your setup support? Tnks, Amancio >>> Mark Hittinger said: > > I've been running Guido's pwd_mkdb improvements on my production servers for > a couple of days now with no apparent problems. We've been adding and updat ing > records very quickly. Thanks to Guido for doing the work on this. > > Regards, > > Mark Hittinger > Internet Manager > WinNET Communications, Inc. > bugs@win.net > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 11:13:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA12465 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:13:12 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA12460 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:13:10 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04960 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:18:05 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199509221818.OAA04960@ns1.win.net> Subject: Re: Guido's pwd_mkdb improvements (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:18:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 217 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." > How many users does your setup support? 12,870 lines in /etc/passwd today. Regards, Mark Hittinger Internet Manager WinNET Communications, Inc. bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 11:38:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA13434 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:38:55 -0700 Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA13429 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:38:52 -0700 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA05635 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:38:14 -0700 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199509221838.LAA05635@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: /usr/src/Makefile targets To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1918 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ resending of previously lost email; if you got this before i apologize ] Hi... we've decided to move some development machines to FreeBSD (yaaa!). What I'd like to do is to develop an "in-house" customized FreeBSD distribution based on the 2.0.5-RELEASE distribution (eventually to be updated to 2.1). That is, I'd like to be able to add/modify files in the /usr/src hierarchy and make a distribution ("2.0.5-LOCAL" ?) that would sit on an internal machine. That way, when we install a new machine: o The installation would go *much* faster (Ethernet vs 56K) o The installed system would be already fully customized for our local site (eg, /etc/sysconfig). Of course, I get lots of experience playing with FreeBSD in the process. :-) I'm trying to understand all of the "make" targets in /usr/src/Makefile. Specifically, what precisely do these do? make world make release make distribute ...others? Also, what about environment variables? I've already figured out that DESTDIR needs to be set if you want to avoid nuking your system with "make world". But after doing "make world" it didn't seem to install the /etc files ... apparently "make distribute" is needed for this (?) DISTDIR = where the distribution goes (?) I'd like be able to both create a distribution set (for ftp) as well as intstall a complete, unbundled filesystem (eg, on a mounted disk /mnt which would then be stuck on some other machine). Finally, any tips for avoiding recompiling the whole universe every time a small change is made to some file? Surely the FreeBSD team has dealt with this issue. Any other unwritten rules/conventions? I would be happy to prepare a "how-to" / FAQ on this, if you can stand my questions... :-) Thanks, -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 11:46:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA13744 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:46:50 -0700 Received: (from sos@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA13735 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:46:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199509221846.LAA13735@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: atapi.c and wcd.c missing.... To: vak@cronyx.ru Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, sos@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "vak@cronyx.ru" at Sep 22, 95 00:16:47 am From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 712 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to vak@cronyx.ru who wrote: > > > From: sos@freebsd.org > > > > The 1.3 version is in -current (I committed the patches last week) > > And yes it still has problems with some old IDE disks that gets > > confused by the ATAPI probestuff. I'm not sure taht this is solvable > > at this point... > > The new version of wdreset() should solve this problem. > Look for the patch in freebsd-current. Thanks, I've got the patches and will commit them as soon as I get time to check them out.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 12:39:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA15742 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:39:32 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA15736 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:39:26 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id PAA04298; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:39:57 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:39:57 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509221939.PAA04298@healer.com> To: archie@tribe.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/Makefile targets Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > What I'd like to do is to develop an "in-house" customized FreeBSD > o The installation would go *much* faster (Ethernet vs 56K) Just select FTP or NFS transfer as the Media. > o The installed system would be already fully customized for > our local site (eg, /etc/sysconfig). Best bet (what we settle on here): make a cookie-cutter /etc tar it up, and after a normal install, ftp it into / mv /etc /etc.old untar the new /etc You can creat a tar file with all the other files (mostly /usr/local) to add aftter that. You only need custom installation for modified kernel settings and/or device drivers. I'm still trying to figure out how to do this one :-) -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 12:42:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA15861 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:42:28 -0700 Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA15852 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:42:23 -0700 Received: from adder.eng.umd.edu (adder.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.110]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11540; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by adder.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.6.4) id PAA04551; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:39:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:39:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: lenzi cc: "Rashid Karimov." , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: postgres95-beta0.03 . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, lenzi wrote: > > Ok Rashid, > > Next week I'll be in my site at Forianopolis, there is > a anonymous ftp called zebra.mtm.ufsc.br. I'll put a package in there > with the binaries for you.. Guys, last I looked, the binaries are _already_ in incoming on freebsd.cdrom.com. I have a copy of them. > > Please call me next week (by tuesdey) > > Thanks for the interest... > > > Lenzi, Sergio > email: lenzi@mtm.ufsc.br > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 12:50:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA16132 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:50:29 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA16127 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:50:23 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA29008 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:49:29 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199509221949.PAA29008@haven.ios.com> Subject: postgres95.03 - bad syscall error. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:49:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 628 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, I've compiled the DB using the advices from the netters ( everything works fine ... well, at least compiles :), if one changes the lex binary with flex 2.5.2 and libl.a with libfl.a ... it was also advised to make copies of the original files - just in case). But! - when I start the postgres after initdb via "postmaster -S" - I get the error "Bad system call" and the program terminates :( I think this could be related to the fact that the kernel is compiled w/o SHMEM* ... but I'm not sure ( I"m recompiling the kernel right now). Does any1 have an explanation for this error ? Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 13:17:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA17307 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:17:36 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17302 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:17:26 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA22435; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:14:43 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA06450; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:14:42 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA07043; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:44:02 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509221944.VAA07043@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Loadable Modules To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:43:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199509221500.LAA21034@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Sep 22, 95 11:00:57 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 482 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As dennis wrote: > Where is the best (if there is any) information about wriing physical device > modules? /usr/share/examples. The lkm examples in 2.0.5 didn't build, but i've fixed this since. > Is the module implementation stable and usable? I think you're often using them without noticing it. Does this count as "stable"? :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 13:36:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA17961 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:36:33 -0700 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17954 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:36:24 -0700 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA16194; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:35:02 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:35:02 -0400 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199509222035.QAA16194@snoopy.mv.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: One more for the NCR PCI quirks list. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I just had a SONY SDT-5000 drive replaced by DEC Field Service and FreeBSD then refused to boot hanging just after probing the DAT drive. After DEC brought in yet another drive which gave the same results I found the problem to be that the new drives have a higher firmware rev number. Could someone fix /sys/pci/ncr.c to have this change? static struct table_entry device_tab[] = { #ifdef NCR_GETCC_WITHMSG {"", "", "", QUIRK_NOMSG}, {"SONY", "SDT-5000", "3.26", QUIRK_NOMSG}, <<<<; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:37:14 -0700 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA16080; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:28:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:28:19 -0400 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199509222028.QAA16080@snoopy.mv.com> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199508231117.NAA15702@uriah.heep.sax.de> (message from J Wunsch on Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:17:26 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: magneto-optical drives Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "J" == J Wunsch writes: J> There's an `od' driver that has recently posted to a Japanese J> newsgroup. I'm currently in the process of integrating it into J> the regular kernel source. J> If you're impatient, i can send you what i've got by now, J> though there will be some additional changes required J> (currently being discussed on the freebsd-scsi list). So how is this coming along? I have a Sony SMO drive that finally works and need to use it with FreeBSD. Do you need a tester for the 'od' driver? Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 13:56:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA19195 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:56:21 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19186 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:56:12 -0700 Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA29799; Fri, 22 Sep 95 16:55:38 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id QAA19803; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:55:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199509222055.QAA19803@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Big win for BSD/OS compatibility Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:55:36 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Don't know if any of you have seen the news about Netscape apparently dropping Linux from its supported platforms for its 2.0 version. Without a compatible platform (I guess SCO iBCS doesn't cut it?) Linux users won't have Netscape 2.x to cruise the iway with. So far Netscape hasn't dropped BSD/OS as a supported platform though and it seems to me that FreeBSD leverage this to win a convert or three. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 14:08:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA19678 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:08:49 -0700 Received: from virgo.ai.net (root@virgo.ai.net [198.69.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19672 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:08:41 -0700 Received: from aries.ai.net (aries.ai.net [198.69.44.1]) by virgo.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA02233; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:08:37 -0400 Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id RAA06654; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:08:32 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Big win for BSD/OS compatibility In-Reply-To: <199509222055.QAA19803@exalt.x.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > Don't know if any of you have seen the news about Netscape apparently > dropping Linux from its supported platforms for its 2.0 version. Without > a compatible platform (I guess SCO iBCS doesn't cut it?) Linux users won't > have Netscape 2.x to cruise the iway with. So far Netscape hasn't dropped > BSD/OS as a supported platform though and it seems to me that FreeBSD > leverage this to win a convert or three. Didn't Netscape [or was it Maxis] go on record saying that they weren't going to go out and support non-commercial operating systems anymore? I suspect that BSD/OS support is available due to BSDI more than the other BSDs put together. Not necessarily due an overwhelming installed base of one of the other, but due to the good karma they get for supporting another "commercial" os. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 14:16:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA20806 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:16:32 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20706 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:16:22 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA01221; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:16:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:16:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199509222116.OAA01221@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: peter@taronga.com CC: gryphon@healer.com, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com, ports@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199509221335.IAA20502@bonkers.taronga.com> (peter@taronga.com) Subject: Re: ports startup scripts From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk You guys have lost me long ago, but just one thing I noticed.... * > Crontab entries, yes. Package data, I could go either way with. * * Package data could equally well go in /usr/local. It really doesn't belong in * /var. That won't work, because the location where the package is installed is also part of the pkg data. In other words, if we put them into /usr/local, we won't be able to find /usr/local. :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 14:43:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA23724 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:43:42 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23715 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:43:37 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id PAA20860; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:42:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:42:58 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509222142.PAA20860@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: malenovi@cview.com (Nik Malenovic) "Re: Firewalling one interface using IPFW?" (Sep 20, 2:59pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: malenovi@cview.com (Nik Malenovic), ugen@latte.worldbank.org, Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I wrote: > >Is it possible to setup packet filtering on one interface w/out affect > >the rest of the network interfaces? Thanks to all who replied, especially Ugen who helped me develop a set of rules which matches the ruleset I'm using under MorningStar. I understand the firewall code much better now, and although there are a couple niglets which would be nice to have, on the whole it looks like I'll be able to do everything under FreeBSD (and more) that I'm currently doing on my Sun using Morningstar. Thanks again, Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 14:48:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA23856 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:48:18 -0700 Received: from gw0.telebase.com (root@gw0.telebase.com [192.132.57.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23851 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:48:13 -0700 Received: from wormhole.telebase.com by gw0.telebase.com id RAA06922 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:59:35 -0400 Received: from enterprise.telebase.com (tootill@enterprise.telebase.com [192.132.57.250]) by wormhole.telebase.com (8.6.12/8.6.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05350 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:10:19 -0400 Received: (from tootill@localhost) by enterprise.telebase.com (8.6.10/8.6.9.1) id RAA00140 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:49:27 -0400 From: Ed Tootill Message-Id: <199509222149.RAA00140@telebase.com.> Subject: additional RE: root rcp To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 430 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk More on my original post. I just wanted to add that I have all other users set up and trusted between the two BSD machines. Users can rcp, rsh. I have hosts.equiv and .rhosts and exports and netgroup set up for this. The problem I'm having is with root user only. I have root's .rhosts file setup but root is not trusted between the two BSD machines. That's why I thought it must be either a file or variable. Ed Tootill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 15:17:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA24923 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:17:05 -0700 Received: from dawnrazor.campus.luth.se (root@dawnrazor.campus.luth.se [130.240.193.73]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA24918 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:16:58 -0700 Received: (from offe@localhost) by dawnrazor.campus.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA13859; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:13:11 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:13:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olof Johansson To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Big win for BSD/OS compatibility In-Reply-To: <199509222055.QAA19803@exalt.x.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > Don't know if any of you have seen the news about Netscape apparently > dropping Linux from its supported platforms for its 2.0 version. Without > a compatible platform (I guess SCO iBCS doesn't cut it?) Linux users won't > have Netscape 2.x to cruise the iway with. So far Netscape hasn't dropped > BSD/OS as a supported platform though and it seems to me that FreeBSD > leverage this to win a convert or three. Let's just hope the support is for the 1.x BSD/OS, and not 2.0. -Olof From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 15:36:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA25344 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:36:49 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA25339 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:36:36 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0swGdV-000I0fC; Sat, 23 Sep 95 00:32 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0swGGl-00000uC; Sat, 23 Sep 95 00:08 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Loadable Modules To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:08:31 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199509221500.LAA21034@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Sep 22, 95 11:00:57 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 395 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of dennis: > Where is the best (if there is any) information about wriing physical device > modules? Seconded, is there any usable example of a real (small) working loadable device driver available ? hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 15:41:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA25486 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:41:34 -0700 Received: from Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (Wit401402.student.utwente.nl [130.89.236.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA25480 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:41:31 -0700 Received: (from alain@localhost) by Wit401402.student.utwente.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA01125; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:41:18 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:41:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker Reply-To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: GUS users, can you please help me? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Excuse me for posting about sound matters to the 'hackers' list, but I have tried 6(!) times now to post this to the 'multimedia' list without success (mail delivery problems). Furthermore, the problem I have may interest other hackers too. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:41:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alain Kalker To: multimedia@star-gate.com Subject: GUS users, can you please help me? (fwd) While working on the sound driver, I have found the following problem: Using a GUS (MAX), when playing back an .mp2 file in _mono_ mode, using something like maplay -l .mp2 there are a few garbled fragments of sound (some of which were played previously) mixed in with the sound. After a few seconds sound plays normal again. This problem has also appeared when playing stereo .mp2 files using my improved version of the gus_copy_from_user() function (not released yet), but the problem playing files in mono existed even _before_ my first patch. Can anybody confirm this problem and, best of all, help me fix it? I must say I have not had this problem when I was using L...x. :-( My present idea as to what it could be is that somehow interrupts from the GUS are being lost or misplaced, i.e. not being serviced or serviced at some wrong moment during the _initial_ filling of the sound driver's buffers. Places where I have looked and hacked (unsuccessfully) are: - dmabuf.c: (DMAbuf_getwrbuffer) - wait for free space, (DMAbuf_outputintr) - gus_wave.c: (gus_sampling_output_block, gus_transfer_output_block, several routines called from interrupt handlers) Thanks in advance for helping me out. --- Alain From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 16:18:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA27448 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:18:56 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA27442 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:18:53 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA13973; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:17:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199509222317.QAA13973@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: A.C.P.M.Kalker@student.utwente.nl cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: GUS users, can you please help me? (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:41:16 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:16:59 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Can you please post on multimedia@rah.star-gate.com? Or send me e-mail? I don't have any problems in playing mpeg files mono or stereo. What I would like for you to include in your mail are cpu, gus model MAX or playing old GUS, is the system busy, etc... And I don't think that the vast majority of hackers on this mailing list really care about the sound stuff which is one of the reasons that the multimedia mailing was created. I have been hacking on the sound driver so my system has been going up and down trying to tracked down a problem which most of you don't have since no one here uses the GUS MAX's cs4231 in dual dma mode. Also, not too long ago, I took my system apart to upgrade it to a P100 8) Amancio >>> Alain Kalker said: > Excuse me for posting about sound matters to the 'hackers' list, but I > have tried 6(!) times now to post this to the 'multimedia' list without > success (mail delivery problems). Furthermore, the problem I have may > interest other hackers too. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:41:58 +0200 (MET DST) > From: Alain Kalker > To: multimedia@star-gate.com > Subject: GUS users, can you please help me? (fwd) > > > While working on the sound driver, I have found the following problem: > > Using a GUS (MAX), when playing back an .mp2 file in _mono_ mode, using > something like > > maplay -l .mp2 > > there are a few garbled fragments of sound (some of which were played > previously) mixed in with the sound. After a few seconds sound plays > normal again. > > This problem has also appeared when playing stereo .mp2 files using my > improved version of the gus_copy_from_user() function (not released yet), > but the problem playing files in mono existed even _before_ my first patch. > > Can anybody confirm this problem and, best of all, help me fix it? I > must say I have not had this problem when I was using L...x. :-( > > My present idea as to what it could be is that somehow interrupts from the > GUS are being lost or misplaced, i.e. not being serviced or serviced at > some wrong moment during the _initial_ filling of the sound driver's > buffers. > > Places where I have looked and hacked (unsuccessfully) are: > > - dmabuf.c: (DMAbuf_getwrbuffer) - wait for free space, > (DMAbuf_outputintr) > - gus_wave.c: (gus_sampling_output_block, gus_transfer_output_block, > several routines called from interrupt handlers) > > Thanks in advance for helping me out. > > --- > Alain > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 16:40:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA28932 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:40:11 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA28922 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:40:04 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA27196; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:39:59 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA09193; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:39:59 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA15768; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:39:17 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509222339.BAA15768@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: magneto-optical drives To: pw@snoopy.mv.com (Paul F. Werkowski) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:39:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199509222028.QAA16080@snoopy.mv.com> from "Paul F. Werkowski" at Sep 22, 95 04:28:19 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 439 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Paul F. Werkowski wrote: > > J> There's an `od' driver that has recently posted to a Japanese > J> newsgroup. > So how is this coming along? I have a Sony SMO drive > that finally works and need to use it with FreeBSD. > Do you need a tester for the 'od' driver? swamped... :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 17:11:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA01899 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:11:34 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA01874 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:11:32 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA04171 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:11:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199509230011.RAA04171@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD and Clinton? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:11:27 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It looks like the Federal government wants to connect all schools to the Internet. So maybe we should send a FreeBSD CDROM to President Clinton :) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 17:48:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA14949 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:48:20 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA14918 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:48:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA11517 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:49:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199509230049.UAA11517@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports startup scripts In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:39:56 CDT." <199509220139.UAA08421@bonkers.taronga.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:49:07 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Regarding sysv-style ``run levels'', someone said: > If you make them > monotonic and stick to that instead of having complex /etc/rcN scripts > there's no problem. > Just because System V got them wrong doesn't mean we have to. The problem everyone here seems to have is that they are considering them to be ``levels'' as in ``level 3 is higher than level 2''. The sysv entities are *not* levels, but are, instead, *states* (and some of the documentation calls them that. There is no necessary connection between run*state* 1 and run*state* 2. Run*state* 2 should *not* be considered ``higher'' or more ``multiuser'' or whatever than run*state* 1. The problem with trying to make run*states* into run*levels* is that there is not any real ``monotonic''ness in what has to be running for various conditions. The nice thing about sysv runstates is that you can express exactly what you want the state of the system to be in any particular runstate. Some set of software should be running and some other set should not. The not-so nice thing about the way sysv implement it is that the runstates need to have global knowledge about all the other states so that they can know what to kill to change the state correctly. But this is *not* a requirement for having runstates, and my experience indicates that the ``state'' concept has much more utility than the ``level'' one, and so I think it is worth some effort to try to correctly implement it. For example, I would like to define my own, private ``protocol debugging'' system runstate (call it, say, 4) and be able to switch from normal ``multiuser'' to ``protocol debugging'' states on command. This would be quite easy with the ``state'' method, but would require ton's of haking with the monotonic ``level'' method. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 19:50:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA08147 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:50:11 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA08119 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:50:04 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA26555 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:42:52 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA03748; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:39:10 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509230139.UAA03748@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:39:10 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Sep 22, 95 10:23:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 443 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, if we are going to a many-scripts each performing one task paradigm, > PLEASE do not place the scripts in more than one directory. > flip-flopping around from place to place to figure out the boot sequence > on ssyv machines drives me crazy.... I don't understand. The boot sequence is very simple to find out: cd /etc ls rc?.d Files in /etc/init.d are only executed by hand if you need to stop or restart a specific service. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 19:50:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA08233 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:50:29 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA08214 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:50:24 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA26561 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:43:14 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA03904; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:47:14 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509230147.UAA03904@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:47:13 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com In-Reply-To: <199509221450.KAA03655@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 22, 95 10:50:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1590 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Why bother with "rc*" directories then? Because that's where the scripts get run from. > Just have an "inittab" (or "init.conf" > or whatever) file which says what to start up and shut down when and > then you can put them all in one directory. Then you hhave to edit that file whenever you add a new service. > It looks like the "S" and "K" scripts are for starting and stopping > things. There are two ways of doing this. > First, you can have the "K" run when leaving a level (to go to a lower level > not a higher one), and the "S" when entering a level (unless coming from > a higher one). Never mind, that's overly complex. > The other way is you run everything in a single directory (S and K) > when going to that directory. This actually makes the most sense to me. Actually, what you do is: On going from a lower level to a higher level, you run the S.* scripts in order, with the argument "start". On going from a higher level to a lower, you run the K.* scripts in order, with the argument "stop". In each case you run the scripts on entering a level. Each script looks like this: case "$1" in start) bring service up;; stop) bring service down;; restart) stop and start service or otherwise tell it to reconfigure itself;; esac For example: case "$1" in start) /usr/sbin/inetd;; stop) kill `cat /var/run/inetd.pid`;; restart) kill -HUP `cat /var/run/inetd.pid`;; esac This way you have a single file that contains instructions for bringing up and taking down the service. No more looking around to find out how to do it cleanly. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 19:51:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA08422 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:51:06 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA08361 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:50:55 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA26563 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:43:22 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA04000; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:54:16 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509230154.UAA04000@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:54:16 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, gryphon@healer.com, hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509222116.OAA01221@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Sep 22, 95 02:16:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 395 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > * > Crontab entries, yes. Package data, I could go either way with. > * > * Package data could equally well go in /usr/local. It really doesn't belong in > * /var. > That won't work, because the location where the package is installed > is also part of the pkg data. In other words, if we put them into > /usr/local, we won't be able to find /usr/local. :) ROFL. OK, put it in /etc... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 19:51:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA08627 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:51:57 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA08559 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:51:46 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id WAA05194; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:52:41 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:52:41 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509230252.WAA05194@healer.com> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, peter@taronga.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: gryphon@healer.com, hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > You guys have lost me long ago, but just one thing I noticed.... > * Package data could equally well go in /usr/local. It really doesn't belong > * in /var. > > That won't work, because the location where the package is installed > is also part of the pkg data. In other words, if we put them into > /usr/local, we won't be able to find /usr/local. :) > Satoshi The package data in question is the list of what packages are currently installed. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 20:03:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA10981 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:03:33 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA10953 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:03:24 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id XAA05231; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:04:21 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:04:21 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509230304.XAA05231@healer.com> To: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, witr@rwwa.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk From: Robert Withrow > The sysv entities are *not* levels, but are, instead, *states* (and > some of the documentation calls them that. There is no necessary > connection between run*state* 1 and run*state* 2. Run*state* 2 should ... > set of software should be running and some other set should not. OK, now we're talking about implementing the DOS 6.* menu system. We pick an arbitrary number of discrete states, and tailor each one to be exactly what we want. Points to consider: It's doable. DOS is doing it. It's not BSD. Oh well... It's SysV-ish. Yahoo... It's not what we we talking about, let along the original topic. The current system works good. To make it work better, we need a simple way to say "run this much of startup". This is the "run-levels" concept. If we want to implement this, great - let's do it our way and KISS. Alternately, we can have lots of different config entries, and for clarity we should damn well let them be named (not numbers), which means a boot menu. OK. That's another seperate option. But what we really end up with there is the same original problem - how do we keep track of what runs when, and do we really want ports (which started this whole thing off) mucking around with whatever table we come up with to hold this information. Personally, I don't like run-states. Too complicated for too little gain. Run levels I can see a use for (if we keep it to 4-ish levels). -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 20:15:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA14136 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:15:24 -0700 Received: from cps201.cps.cmich.edu (cps201.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.20.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA14109 ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:15:20 -0700 Received: from cps201 (cps201.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.20.201]) by cps201.cps.cmich.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA12134; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:15:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:15:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Matthew Bailey X-Sender: mbailey@cps201 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: BGP4: FreeBSD 1, Linux 0 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I though you guys might get a kick out of this! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:58:45 -0400 From: dennis To: inet-access@earth.com Subject: BGP4: FreeBSD 1, Linux 0 FYI: A customer with a dual-port T1 card and Linux recently tried to run BGP4 and load the 30,000+ route table. Ran and Loaded fine, but found that Linux is unusable with that many routes in the table. Same machine with Freebsd works like a charm......... Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Boards and Routers for Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 20:23:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA15634 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:23:11 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA15611 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:22:59 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id XAA05317; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:24:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:24:00 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509230324.XAA05317@healer.com> To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, peter@taronga.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) > > Yes, if we are going to a many-scripts each performing one task paradigm, > > PLEASE do not place the scripts in more than one directory. > > flip-flopping around from place to place to figure out the boot sequence > > on ssyv machines drives me crazy.... > I don't understand. The boot sequence is very simple to find out: > Files in /etc/init.d are only executed by hand if you need to stop or > restart a specific service. But keeping a set of directories for the sole purpose of linking to one common directory is hellishly redundant. If everything is in one directory, keep it only in one directory and reference it by file. Or keep it in multiple directories. For example "rc.3" is a file for run-level (or run-state) 3 that describes what gets run and what doesn't. Which means all we've done is make more copies of "rc.local". Nevermind. We've gone full spiral. Let's start over. There are basically 5 options for system: 1) Single file (current BSD mechanism, /etc/rc) 2) Single file for run-states (inittab), single directory (init.d) for scripts 3) Multiple files for run-states (like current, /etc/rc.#), single directory to hold scripts 4) Multiple directories for run-states (/etc/rc#.d) to hold scripts 5) Multiple directories for run-levels (/etc/rc#.d) to hold scripts Anything else is overly complex and gains us nothing over the above. The differnece between run-states and run-levels is that for the latter, all things done at an earlier state are done as well. Original issue: What do we allow ports and packages to modify? Simplest is #4 or #5 so they do not muck with system scripts. Failing that #2 or #3; at least it is clear what is modified how and where. Similar Implementations: SysV uses a combination of 2 and 4 (inittab plus dirs). DOS uses a simplified version of #2 (one file which is multiple scripts). Personally, I like 5. I'd prefer real run-levels, since that is going to cover 90+% of what you'll need to do. Keep with the four simple levels: 0 stop 1 single user 2 multi user, local daemons 3 full/network This is the "how much of /etc/rc" do I implement. On going up, run anything <= level with argument "start". On going down, run anything > level with argument "stop". Very simple. Does everything we need. I'll even volunterr to coordinate it and help implement it for 2.2 -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 20:24:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA15935 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:24:46 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA15903 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:24:40 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id XAA05328 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:25:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:25:46 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509230325.XAA05328@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: multiple mail messages Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is it just me, or is everyone else getting four copies of every mail message. I can almost see getting two (one on the "To:" line and one from the "Cc: hackers | ports"). -coranth From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 20:33:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA18196 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:33:02 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18162 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:32:55 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA17816; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:31:43 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199509230331.XAA17816@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: postgres95.03 - bad syscall error. To: rashid@haven.ios.com (Rashid Karimov.) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509221949.PAA29008@haven.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov." at Sep 22, 95 03:49:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 765 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi there folx, > > > I've compiled the DB using the advices from the > netters ( everything works fine ... well, at least > compiles :), if one changes the lex binary with flex > 2.5.2 and libl.a with libfl.a ... it was also advised > to make copies of the original files - just in case). > > But! - when I start the postgres after initdb via > "postmaster -S" - I get the error "Bad system call" > and the program terminates :( > > I think this could be related to the fact that > the kernel is compiled w/o SHMEM* ... but I'm > not sure ( I"m recompiling the kernel right now). Hmmm .. it _was actually because of very that reason :) Works fine ... those tests produced the output very similar to :) the expected one :) Rashid . From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Sep 22 21:19:42 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA28027 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:19:42 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA28013 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:19:39 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA01370; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:19:02 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509230419.VAA01370@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509230324.XAA05317@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 22, 95 11:24:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 491 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > 0 stop > 1 single user > 2 multi user, local daemons > 3 full/network > > This is the "how much of /etc/rc" do I implement. > On going up, run anything <= level with argument "start". > On going down, run anything > level with argument "stop". > get the list in reverse order when going down to get the dependencies right.. otherwise you unmount nfs, after you shutdown the nets.. and that doesn't work too well, (not to mention unmounting things while they are still in use) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 00:29:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA12907 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:29:50 -0700 Received: from oasis.txdirect.net (oasis.txdirect.net [204.57.120.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA12896 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:29:43 -0700 Received: (from rsnow@localhost) by oasis.txdirect.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA23764; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 02:29:16 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 02:28:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Snow X-Sender: rsnow@oasis To: Coranth Gryphon cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multiple mail messages In-Reply-To: <199509230325.XAA05328@healer.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Coranth Gryphon wrote: > > Is it just me, or is everyone else getting four copies of every > mail message. I can almost see getting two (one on the "To:" line > and one from the "Cc: hackers | ports"). > > -coranth Ditto.... Ditto.... Ditto.... Ditto.... :-) But my 4 dont seem to come in during the same hour. (ie. 2 this hour, 2 next hour) ______________________________________________________________________ Rob Snow Powered by FreeBSD rsnow@txdirect.net http://www.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 01:15:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA15804 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:15:50 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA15799 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:15:45 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA04662 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:14:18 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA12475 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:14:18 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA17380 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:53:42 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509230753.JAA17380@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: multiple mail messages To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:53:42 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509230325.XAA05328@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 22, 95 11:25:46 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 818 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Coranth Gryphon wrote: > > Is it just me, or is everyone else getting four copies of every > mail message. I can almost see getting two (one on the "To:" line > and one from the "Cc: hackers | ports"). People are generally too lazy to trim the Cc lists even when they know that all recipients are actually on the mailing list. That's why i'm defending myself by dropping my name out of reply-to (ok, Nate, my procmail is still not set up). You have to live with this laziness, it bloats the mailinglists, wastes bandwidth, and selfishly saves the sender of a message a few seconds by causing 500 recipients the grieve of seeing (or at least receving) the duplicates. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 03:51:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA25516 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 03:51:38 -0700 Received: from aristotle.algonet.se (aristotle.algonet.se [193.12.207.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA25507 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 03:51:34 -0700 Received: from sophocles. (mal@sophocles.algonet.se [193.12.207.10]) by aristotle.algonet.se (8.6.9/hdw.1.0) with SMTP id MAA22445 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:50:59 +0200 Received: by sophocles. (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA25907; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:51:22 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:51:22 +0200 From: mal@aristotle.algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Message-Id: <9509231051.AA25907@sophocles.> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: [2.1-stable] No def. of GZIPCMD in .../share/doc/usd/1[02].*/Makefile Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I got the following output from a make in /usr/src (sup'ed today): ===> share/doc/10.exref (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/10.exref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/exref; groff -Tps -t -ms -o1- ex.summary) | > summary.ps.gz *** Signal 11 ^^ not much here... The line in /usr/src/share/doc/usd/10.exref/Makefile is (cd ${SRCDIR}; ${ROFF} ${.ALLSRC}) | ${GZIPCMD} > ${.TARGET} Maybe the patch below changes it to the way it was ment to be done? (About the segfault: I did run this via a make in /usr/src twice and got the segfault both times. When going to /usr/obj/share/doc/usd/10.exref and running the line above by cut/paste, I did _not_ get the segfault.) _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se *** 10.exref/Makefile.org Sun Sep 17 16:43:04 1995 --- 10.exref/Makefile Sat Sep 23 12:40:20 1995 *************** *** 12,19 **** --- 12,21 ---- .if !defined(NODOCCOMPRESS) SFILE= summary.${PRINTER}.gz + GZIPCMD= gzip -c .else SFILE= summary.${PRINTER} + GZIPCMD= cat .endif all: ${DFILE} ${SFILE} *** 12.vi/Makefile.org Sun Sep 17 16:43:05 1995 --- 12.vi/Makefile Sat Sep 23 12:41:10 1995 *************** *** 13,21 **** --- 13,23 ---- .if !defined(NODOCCOMPRESS) SFILE= summary.${PRINTER}.gz VFILE= viapwh.${PRINTER}.gz + GZIPCMD= gzip -c .else SFILE= summary.${PRINTER} VFILE= viapwh.${PRINTER} + GZIPCMD= cat .endif all: ${DFILE} ${SFILE} ${VFILE} From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 04:15:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA27162 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:15:31 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA27157 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:15:23 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA00950; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:19:34 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA23706 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:15:23 +0100 Received: from freeze.iaf.nl by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA13087 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:46:29 +0200 Message-Id: From: rene@freeze.iaf.nl (Rene de Vries) Subject: Re: PPP problems connection to a Windows-NT server To: amurai@spec.co.jp (Atsushi Murai), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (freebsd-hackers) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:42:52 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) In-Reply-To: from "Rene de Vries" at Sep 14, 95 05:00:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1565 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thanx to All of you! The question I posted some weeks ago about connecting a FreeBSD (2.0.5) machine (a 386DX/40 with 8Mb :-() to a Windows NT server has been solved. I thank all of you for bearing with me...... The problem was: Connect a FreeBSD machine to a Windows NT server using PPP and PAP. The solution is: Use iij-ppp and turn the request for authorisation off by disabeling BOTH chap and pap, but accept pap and deny chap. How this solution was reached: By trial and error! The Windows NT server we HAVE to use is configured in such a way it both supported chap and pap. The disadvantage of this was that it first suggested chap and than pap, the chap of Windows NT does not seem to be compatible (just a guess) with the chap of FreeBSD (international version WITHOUT des). The second problem was that if you enable pap the iij-ppp requests a remote authorisation (which the Windows NT server was not willing to do). Notes and Remarks: A Windows NT server sends some packages which are not understood by the iij-ppp (and the pppd), both FreeBSD implementations just reject those packages, so there should be no problem. I think these packages are invented by Microsoft (Arg Arg...). Bye, Rene de Vries PS: I would have liked to be able to solve this problem by using the famous RTFM algorithm, but unfortunately I can't read Japanees ;-) --- _ _ _ __ _ |- |_| |- |- / |- Rene de Vries rene@freeze.iaf.nl | |\ |_ |_ /_ |_ Zuidlarenpad 15, 6835 GW Arnhem (NL) (voice) +31 263233019 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 04:19:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA27921 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:19:32 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA27857 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:19:27 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA03314; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:18:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id EAA00251; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:20:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199509231120.EAA00251@corbin.Root.COM> To: mal@aristotle.algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [2.1-stable] No def. of GZIPCMD in .../share/doc/usd/1[02].*/Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 Sep 95 12:51:22 +0200." <9509231051.AA25907@sophocles.> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:20:31 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I got the following output from a make in /usr/src (sup'ed today): > > >===> share/doc/10.exref >(cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/10.exref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/exref; groff >-Tps -t -ms -o1- ex.summary) | > summary.ps.gz >*** Signal 11 > > ^^ > not much here... > >The line in /usr/src/share/doc/usd/10.exref/Makefile is > (cd ${SRCDIR}; ${ROFF} ${.ALLSRC}) | ${GZIPCMD} > ${.TARGET} > >Maybe the patch below changes it to the way it was ment to be done? Actually, no, but thanks for trying. :-) GZIPCMD is normally defined in /usr/share/mk/bsd.doc.mk and bsd.info.mk. For some reason, your versions of those files must be out of date - but it's possible that there is a chicken and egg problem caused by 'make' reading these on startup. You see, it used to be just "GZIP" in the previous version of these files and this was changed recently to GZIPCMD. Jordan reported a similar problem, but it disappeared after the proper bsd.*.mk files were installed and he re-did his 'make world'. >(About the segfault: > I did run this via a make in /usr/src twice and got the segfault both times. > When going to /usr/obj/share/doc/usd/10.exref and running the line above by > cut/paste, I did _not_ get the segfault.) The segfault was caused by a bug in the shell not properly dealing with null commands in a pipe. When Jordan had this problem I debugged the shell and fixed the bug...so you'll never see THIS one again. :-) Anyway, now that you have proper bsd.*.mk files, try to 'make world' again; I think the problem will be gone. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 04:31:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA29561 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:31:17 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA29550 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:31:14 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id EAA03372; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:31:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:31:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199509231131.EAA03372@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: mal@aristotle.algonet.se CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <9509231051.AA25907@sophocles.> (mal@aristotle.algonet.se) Subject: Re: [2.1-stable] No def. of GZIPCMD in .../share/doc/usd/1[02].*/Makefile From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just wanted to let you all know, there IS a freebsd-stable list, aimed exactly for purposes like this one. Let's use it, it's kinda lonely there! :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 04:52:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA00814 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:52:37 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA00804 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:52:31 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA08069 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:52:21 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA14556 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:52:20 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA21450 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:40:11 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509231140.NAA21450@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/conf GENERIC To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:40:11 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Peter Wemm" at Sep 23, 95 05:01:33 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2651 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (Moved out to -hackers, that's why almost fully quoted.) sysv{shm,sem,msg} > > LKM's? > > That's what I thought too when I spoke to Jordan shortly before he did it. > > When we were talking, I griped about the fact that if the SYSV* stuff was > not loaded, and somebody tried to use them, the system mercilessly killed > the processes without explaination, causing much confusion by the user. You don't think the "Illegal system call" ain't an explanation? :-) > There are a couple of things that spring to mind.... > > First, instead of making the system call table for the sysv routines > pointing to nosys(), they could point to something that does a tprintf() > (or is that uprintf()) giving them a message _why_ they got killed, > before calling nosys(). This may actually be useful in general if there > was a generic nosys()-type wrapper that printed the name/number of the > attempted syscall before zapping the process. Do it. :) > Second, this sort of thing is crying out for Terry's demand-loading LKM's, > but I dont really want to get into that religion.. :-) If we hunted > around, I'm sure we could find enough stuff that could be demand-loaded to > make the space saving bigger than the cost of the kernel-linker on > average. (ppp, slip, tun, sysv*, some of the fs's, etc).. I think ppp and slip can be demand-loaded already. For tun, it's a bit different (as it's for slip, FWIW): they are required for the installation process, and demand-loading wouldn't make sense on the install floppy. > Third, I'd be happier if they were LKM's by default rather than in > GENERIC, and the "as-shipped" /etc/sysconfig loaded them by default, with > the abilility to disable them. I think that'd get around Jordan's need to > ship a fully-functional system that Xaccel, XFree etc wont blow up on if > the advertised SHM extension was used. I don't have the time/inclination > to do that however, so I wont complain. If Jordan can make it fit on the > floppy, as far as I'm concerned (since there's no "better" solutions to > the vendor's needs yet), he can go right ahead. He cannot make it fit on the installation floppy. :-) The GENERIC in 2.2-current required a major deletia when i've last attempted to build a 2.2 "release", including but not limited to the entire PCI stuff and almost all Ethernet interface (except of the ed driver since i'm using it :). Only after this, it did tightly fit into the 0x200000 bytes limit again. RELENG_2_1_0 is not yet as bloated. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 04:55:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA01095 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:55:52 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA01084 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:55:50 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA03373; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:54:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id EAA00307; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:56:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199509231156.EAA00307@corbin.Root.COM> To: joshk@tanisys.com (Josh Karnes) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: trouble In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 Sep 95 09:48:58 GMT." <199509220948.JAA00261@hoover.tanisys.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:56:54 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >that was months ago. We still get the same nagging error message every day: > >"CLEAN FLAG IS WRONG IN SUPERBLOCK" >"FIX? [yn]" > >We say "y", then reboot, then fsck and get the same error message. I'm not sure I understand. Are you running fsck every day or something? If so, don't do that. fsck is not intended to be run on mounted filesystems. If you run it and then answer 'yes' to any of the questions, you will certainly cause some form of filesystem corruption (although not probably serious). We used to run fsck in the /etc/daily script with the '-n' (nowrite), but when the foolishness of this was revealed (i.e. when lots of people started complaining about the bogus output), we removed it. It was never useful very useful, often lead to undo concern, and had significant amounts of overhead for people with lots of filesystems. Anyway, fsck should only be run on *unmounted* filesystems - such as the case during system startup. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 06:18:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA03396 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 06:18:52 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA03391 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 06:18:48 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA29164 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:02:54 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA16496 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:45:22 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509231245.HAA16496@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:45:21 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199509230324.XAA05317@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 22, 95 11:24:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1495 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > But keeping a set of directories for the sole purpose of linking > to one common directory is hellishly redundant. It's just like /usr/share/zoneinfo. And no, it's not "hellishly redundant". It's actually very convenient. Much more so than referencing via a file: + Adding or deleting a script can be done without editing a file. + Files accumulate cruft. There's always a temptation to put more than a script name in there. And the benefit over just having the run-level directories is it makes it convenient to start up or shut down a single service. SVR2 didn't have the common directory. I don't think SVR3 did, either. It was very nice when they added it. I'm not going to cry if it's not implemented, but it's not a monstrosity. > Original issue: What do we allow ports and packages to modify? Answer: We let them put a file in a directory. > SysV uses a combination of 2 and 4 (inittab plus dirs). Inittab provides additional services which are currently provided by ttys. It would be nice to make ttys run-level-aware, but I don't think that's vital. It'd be nice... > This is the "how much of /etc/rc" do I implement. > On going up, run anything <= level with argument "start". > On going down, run anything > level with argument "stop". You may need separate start and stop entries because the order of execution may be important and not always obvious. Putting start and stop in the same directory is nice, but make sure you run the stops in reverse order at least. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 07:27:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA04949 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:27:51 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA04931 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:27:45 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id KAA07671 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:29:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:29:10 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509231429.KAA07671@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multiple mail messages Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Coranth Gryphon wrote: > > Is it just me, or is everyone else getting four copies of every > mail message. I can almost see getting two (one on the "To:" line > and one from the "Cc: hackers | ports"). From: J Wunsch > People are generally too lazy to trim the Cc lists even when they know Getting one duplicate is annoying, but at least understandable if the mailer program is brain-damaged about not duplicating in a CC. It's gettting four copies of everything that is the problem.. -coranth From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 07:44:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA05605 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:44:03 -0700 Received: from healer.com (healer-gw.Empire.Net [205.164.80.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05595 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 07:43:53 -0700 Received: (from gryphon@localhost) by healer.com (8.6.11/8.6.9.1) id KAA07713; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:45:18 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:45:18 -0400 From: Coranth Gryphon Message-Id: <199509231445.KAA07713@healer.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) > +> But keeping a set of directories for the sole purpose of linking > +> to one common directory is hellishly redundant. > It's just like /usr/share/zoneinfo. Yep, which I immmediately delete as a link and copy the correct file in place. For this very reason. > And no, it's not "hellishly redundant". It's actually very convenient. Much > more so than referencing via a file: What I mean was "redundant" is having one directory being a mirror of the other. I honestly can't see what is gained. Either you just put everything in specific directory you want it to be in, or put it in one common directory. Not both. > + Adding or deleting a script can be done without editing a file. If you want things to be in one directory, and not have a config file, then name the startup scripts based on level. Thus: NNfoo.# Where NN is done for ordering, and # is the run level associated with it. > And the benefit over just having the run-level directories is it makes > it convenient to start up or shut down a single service. SVR2 didn't I have no problem with a single directory. I just don't see the need for mirroring from one directory to another on the same machine. > +> Original issue: What do we allow ports and packages to modify? > Answer: We let them put a file in a directory. Yep, sounds good to me. The only problem here is making sure the NN (for ordering) is handled correctly. > +> This is the "how much of /etc/rc" do I implement. > +> On going up, run anything <= level with argument "start". > +> On going down, run anything > level with argument "stop". > You may need separate start and stop entries because the order of execution > may be important and not always obvious. Putting start and stop in the same > directory is nice, but make sure you run the stops in reverse order at least. No. I was saying one script per service, that accept (and do the right thing) based upon a single command line argument ("start", "stop", "restart"). Yes, then going up run them from lowest to highest order number, when going down from highest to lowest. This should be relatively simple to implement. To decide upon an init procedure, we need to make two decisons before anything else. First, do we want run-levels or run-states? Second, do we want a control file, or just scripts in a directory? The only thing I have a real strong opinion on is that run-levels are a lot cleaner and simpler (and just as useful in most cases). That and don't implement both one directory per level AND one common directory. Pick one or the other. -coranth ------------------------------------------+------------------------+ Coranth Gryphon | "Faith Manages." | | - Satai Delenn | Phone: 603-598-3440 Fax: 603-598-3430 +------------------------+ USMail: 11 Carver St, Nashua, NH 03060 Disclaimer: All these words are yours, except Europa... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 10:20:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA12075 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:20:34 -0700 Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA12062 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:20:30 -0700 From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA28703; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:47:28 -0700 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA25492; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:53:07 -0700 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:53:07 -0700 Message-Id: <9509231553.AA25492@asimov.volant.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org, peter@taronga.com, gryphon@healer.com Subject: Re: ports startup scripts X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) |> > +> But keeping a set of directories for the sole purpose of linking |> > +> to one common directory is hellishly redundant. |> |> ... |> |> > And no, it's not "hellishly redundant". It's actually very convenient. |> > Much more so than referencing via a file: |> |> What I mean was "redundant" is having one directory being a mirror |> of the other. I honestly can't see what is gained. Either you just |> put everything in specific directory you want it to be in, or put |> it in one common directory. Not both. It isn't a mirror, it's a subset. And it is very convienient to have easy access to both the complete set and the individual subsets. |> > + Adding or deleting a script can be done without editing a file. |> |> If you want things to be in one directory, and not have a config file, |> then name the startup scripts based on level. Thus: |> |> NNfoo.# |> |> Where NN is done for ordering, and # is the run level associated with it. First, this makes it a bit more awkward for manually restarting, or for handling services that are -only- started manually. Particularly, the script name must change if you change a service from manual to automatic start, or vice versa. For example, with the SVr4/Solaris scheme I can restart the HTTP daemon via '/etc/init.d/httpd restart'. I don't need to remember (or look up) which run level it is in or what its sequence number is. (Which also makes it convienient for scripts to start/stop/restart services outside the init sequence.) Second, you are still thinking of the levels as a monotonic sequence instead of as states. The state concept adds significant power and flexability at almost no cost. (Pat's design rule #1: Don't get in your users' way. Just because you don't have any use for arbitrary states doesn't mean that nobody else does.) |> > +> Original issue: What do we allow ports and packages to modify? |> |> > Answer: We let them put a file in a directory. |> |> Yep, sounds good to me. The only problem here is making sure the NN |> (for ordering) is handled correctly. That's not that hard. You set a few widely separated sequence points in each directory, and it generally won't matter what order things happen between them. And since the links are of the form '[SK]##service', it doesn't matter if two services happen to choose the same number. Each of the rc?.d directories should contain a README that lists these sequence points. (And reminds the reader that the S* and K* files are links into init.d.) |> > +> This is the "how much of /etc/rc" do I implement. |> > +> On going up, run anything <= level with argument "start". |> > +> On going down, run anything > level with argument "stop". |> |> > You may need separate start and stop entries because the order of execution |> > may be important and not always obvious. Putting start and stop in the same |> > directory is nice, but make sure you run the stops in reverse order at least. |> |> No. I was saying one script per service, that accept (and do the right |> thing) based upon a single command line argument ("start", "stop", |> "restart"). Yes, then going up run them from lowest to highest order |> number, when going down from highest to lowest. This should be relatively |> simple to implement. But not necessarily the right order. This is another reason for the links - you have separate S and K links for start and kill operations. This also makes it easy to see what is happening for any runstate - just look in the rc?.d directory - the K* files tell you what services are being killed (and in what order), the S* files tell you which ones are being started. |> To decide upon an init procedure, we need to make two decisons before |> anything else. First, do we want run-levels or run-states? Second, do |> we want a control file, or just scripts in a directory? |> |> The only thing I have a real strong opinion on is that run-levels are |> a lot cleaner and simpler (and just as useful in most cases). I vote for states, an inittab, and a per-state script that automatically runs other scripts in the directory. (So that package installs -NEVER- have to edit a script.) |> That and don't implement both one directory per level AND one common |> directory. Pick one or the other. You've completely missed the point of the init.d-plus-rc?.d scheme. I suspect that no amount of argument or explanation will make it clear. But I do know that I find it -very- useful. Init.d tells you all of the services available, and is a very convienient place to find the service control scripts under fixed names (e.g. httpd) for invocation outside the system-state-change sequence. Rc?.d tells you which services will be started or stopped, and in what order, for a particular run state. This is not additional complication, it is additional clarity. It makes life easier for both the experienced full-time FreeBSD sysadmin and the inexperienced, occasional, or multi-OS sysadmin. -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 12:20:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA21961 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:20:58 -0700 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA21954 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:20:56 -0700 Received: from sbgrad9.csdept (sbgrad9.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.2.29]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29283 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 15:20:54 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 15:20:54 -0400 From: Michael Vernick Message-Id: <199509231920.PAA29283@cs.sunysb.edu> Received: by sbgrad9.csdept (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09282; Sat, 23 Sep 95 15:19:04 EDT To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Can I get more memory from malloc? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk For our video server project I need to store video data in memory before it goes out to the network. My kernel code uses 'malloc' to acquire this buffer space. Currently, I have 32 MB of physical memory. However, I run out of 'malloc' memory at about 18 MB. Is there a way to get more memory for the kernel? Thanks. mv From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 13:11:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA28640 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:11:52 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28629 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:11:46 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA19522 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:11:42 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA17560 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:11:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA22521 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 21:35:20 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199509231935.VAA22521@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: multiple mail messages To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 21:35:19 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509231429.KAA07671@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 23, 95 10:29:10 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 775 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Coranth Gryphon wrote: > > > People are generally too lazy to trim the Cc lists even when they know > > Getting one duplicate is annoying, but at least understandable if > the mailer program is brain-damaged about not duplicating in a CC. It's not the mailer, it's people: the mailer cannot know if you are already on the list (most people have different from: and subscription addresses for one or the other reason). > It's gettting four copies of everything that is the problem.. The question has been (erroneously) sent to two lists in parallel in the first place. Nobody bothered to drop one of the lists from the Cc. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 13:35:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29564 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:35:09 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29557 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:35:05 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04257; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:34:58 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509232034.NAA04257@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: trouble To: joshk@tanisys.com (Josh Karnes) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509220948.JAA00261@hoover.tanisys.com> from "Josh Karnes" at Sep 22, 95 09:48:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4565 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > This is going to be along post, but bear with me. I have accumulated a > bunch of problems and I'd like to fill y'all in on some history as well. > > We have a 386DX/8/160/FreeBSD2.0.1 over here that is our mail/web/ftp/slip > (someday... more later) server. We replaced another 386 machine that was > used for the same function, because we were running out of hard disk space > and we kept getting file system errors and we thought the HD was ready to go. > > Well, we just copied everything verbatim from one machine to the other, and > that was months ago. We still get the same nagging error message every day: > > "CLEAN FLAG IS WRONG IN SUPERBLOCK" > "FIX? [yn]" You are not doing this when the system is runnign are you? If so, then this is normal.. you should only do fsck when in singlue user mode, (during boot) before the filesystems are mounted.. and fsck -n is ok to GET AN IDEA of how the health of the fs is, but it will always be slightly wrong, because it's a LIVE MOUNTED fs.. > > We say "y", then reboot, then fsck and get the same error message. > > Recently, we have gotten other file system error messages (forgive me for > not writing them down) something to do with "bitmap", and a bunch of these guys: > > UNREF FILE I=4267 OWNER=root MODE=100600 > SIZE=673 MTIME=Sep 18 17:03 1995 > CLEAR? > > with "I=" a bunch of different values every day. Some other errors too, I > just can't remember them :-) > > So that's problem #1. I need to fix it fast. > Is the system up? an unreffed file is one that a process ahs open but has been deleted.. > ---------- > PROBLEM #2 > ---------- > > SLIP. This has been a serious headache. Let me trace what I have done wrt > SLIP. sorry can't help you on that.. > > 1. Hook up an external Hayes Optima 14.4 modem and enable dialups following > instructions exactly from www.freebsd.org. Set s0=1 and dial in, at any > speed, you get jibberish. For kicks I connect a Microcom 28.8 modem > instead, and dial in and I get a login: prompt like I should. My conclusion > is that there is some speed-matching problem between the modem and the > computer with the Hayes, so I just blow off the Hayes and stick with the > Microcom. > > 2. Start working on SLIP. I configure everything exactly as instructed > from the web pages, and dial in with MacSLIP from (of course) my Mac. After > some tinkering, everything appears to work. Problem is that I can only > communicate directly between the SLIP server and the client, and any packets > bound for anywhere else get nowhere. I can ping the server, but not the Mac > (from the Mac). > > This is how I had this configured: > > 204.96.111.229 ethernet card on the server > 204.96.111.253 serial port on server > 204.96.111.254 serial port on the Mac > > OK, so I know this was wrong. I'm just learnin' all this, ya know. > > 3. Got a good book on TCP/IP. The way I figure, it is a routing problem. > Any packets sent to the client (now configured to the same address as the > SLIP port, 204.96.111.253 on both ends of the serial connection) from some > other host are not being forwarded from the ethernet card to the SLIP > interface. After much deliberation, I concluded (for some reason that > sounded good then but I can't remember now) that I needed to add the "-s" > flag to routed. The pseudo-proxy-arp, btw, far as I can tell, has been > configured properly all along. So I add "-s", as well as changing the > addresses so they are the same on both ende of the SLIP line, and just when > I think it is going to work... > > 4. Dial in, get jibberish !@%$!@#$!@# Just like the jibberish I got when I > dialed in with the Hayes modem. Oh, did I mention that there was a power > outage and the modem's memory (semi-volatile) got flushed? Can't even log > in with a terminal (non-slip) connection anymore. It seems like a baud rate > problem, or some other modem settings problem, but I think everything is set > right! What gives??? > _____________________________________________________________________________ > Josh Karnes joshk@tanisys.com > Senior Communications Specialist http://www.tanisys.com/~joshk/home.htm > Tanisys Technology http://www.tanisys.com > Austin, Texas '72 240Z | IZCC #308 > _____________________________________________________________________________ > *** opinions expressed herein are MINE, ALL MINE!! *** > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 13:36:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29635 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:36:22 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA29626 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:36:17 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0swbEw-000I0aC; Sat, 23 Sep 95 22:32 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0swb7f-00001BC; Sat, 23 Sep 95 22:24 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: LKM: how to fiddle in interrupt routine ptrs ? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:24:31 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 583 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is there a generic or recommended way or example of installing a device's interrupt routine at mod-loading a device driver LKM time ? Does one have to copy the old isa_devtab_xxx[], expand it with an entry and exchange it with a new one ? What is the way to tell the driver at mod-load time it's IRQ and i/o addr ? Terry mentioned an LKM printer driver but i could not find it even in his original post. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 14:24:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA01725 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:24:26 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01719 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:24:20 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA18968; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 17:24:06 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 17:24:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guido's pwd_mkdb improvements (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199509221818.OAA04960@ns1.win.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Mark Hittinger wrote: > > 12,870 lines in /etc/passwd today. Sorry, I'm just getting back up to speed again with my new job in Toronto... what are these improvements to pwd_mkdb? -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 14:28:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA01935 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:28:02 -0700 Received: from trepan.io.org (taob@trepan.io.org [198.133.36.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01918 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:27:57 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by trepan.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA19048; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 17:27:13 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 17:27:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: John Fieber cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Well hey, bwah In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, John Fieber wrote: > The "Powered by FreeBSD" logo, and rules governing usage may be found at > http://www.freebsd.org/gallery.html. To whoever maintains that page, there's a typo: Use of this logo or the likeness of the BSD Daemons for profitable gain requires the consent consent of Brian Tao... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -- Brian Tao System Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 14:38:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA02266 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:38:21 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02261 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:38:17 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA24218 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 17:42:18 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199509232142.RAA24218@ns1.win.net> Subject: Re: Guido's pwd_mkdb improvements (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 17:42:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1151 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: Brian Tao > Sorry, I'm just getting back up to speed again with my new job in > Toronto... what are these improvements to pwd_mkdb? If you have a large password file then there will be a considerable resource hit whenever you change a passord or add an account. pwd_mkdb will use a lot of vm and a lot of processor. It is very noticeable. Guido wrote some modifications for pwd_mkdb that causes it to support a "-u username" parameter. Rather than rebuild the entire file, this option causes an update of an existing record, or the creation of a new record. I have tested it, and am running it here in production with no problems seen. This eliminates the resource hit, except in the case of a deletion. We rarely delete records so this is not a big deal. Guido has some small adjustments for chpass, passwd, and passwd.local to call pwd_mkdb with the -u. "vipw" is the only fly in the ointment, since you could modify two or more records. Someone might be tempted to "dd" :-) A rebuild of the entire file must be assumed. Regards, Mark Hittinger Internet Manager WinNET Communications, Inc. bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 14:57:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA03172 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:57:44 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA03165 for hackers@freefall; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:57:41 -0700 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:57:41 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199509232157.OAA03165@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Whither wait_t? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Shouldn't it be defined in sys/wait.h? Not in 2.1! :-( What's our evil friend POSIX say? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 18:09:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA11533 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 18:09:01 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11528 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 18:08:57 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id UAA09357; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 20:57:07 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 20:57:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: ports startup scripts To: Peter da Silva cc: peter@taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509230139.UAA03748@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > > Yes, if we are going to a many-scripts each performing one task paradigm, > > PLEASE do not place the scripts in more than one directory. > > flip-flopping around from place to place to figure out the boot sequence > > on ssyv machines drives me crazy.... > > I don't understand. The boot sequence is very simple to find out: > > cd /etc > ls rc?.d each rc?.d is a separate directory, with possibly distinct files. with the K* and S* files in different directories, one for each run level, ascertaining the differences is needlessly harder. consider instead a file that lists which scripts to run for each 'run level or the term of the day we are using' and the order of execution. now if both level A and level B need script Sfoo, there is only one Sfoo. no symlinks required. no hard links required. it is immediately obvious what is differnct and what is the same among the run levels. same name == same script == same actions. no grep'ping. no diff'ing. no uncertainty. Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 20:49:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA16834 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 20:49:01 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA16825 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 20:48:54 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA03009 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:32:30 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01237; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:13:16 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:13:16 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199509240313.WAA01237@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports startup scripts Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: References: <199509230139.UAA03748@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article , Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > each rc?.d is a separate directory, with possibly distinct files. If you don't have the files with the same "service" name linked to each other, you have a messed up installation. That's no worse than having bootleg stuff in /etc/rc instead of /etc/rc.local. > with the K* and S* files in different directories, one for each >run level, ascertaining the differences is needlessly harder. There are no differences unless you're using a broken editor. Add a check for that to /etc/daily. > consider instead a file that lists which scripts to run for each >'run level or the term of the day we are using' and the order of >execution. now if both level A and level B need script Sfoo, there is >only one Sfoo. no symlinks required. no hard links required. it is >immediately obvious what is differnct and what is the same among the run >levels. And you have to trust 150 packages to edit this file without clobbering it. And you have to trust 100,000 system administrators to do the same. Getting them to "mv KXXfoo .KXXfoo" is easier. We have ... novice ... system admins at work. The number of botched systems went way down when we copied the run-level stuff from System V to our Xenix boxes. DEC thought the same thing... that's one of the things they picked up from System V for Digital UNIX... and they have been gratifyingly conservative about that. I'm not that averse to having a unified directory, but each component should have its own startup and config file. Like I said in my original response, just having /etc/rc.d with S and K scripts run by /etc/rc and shutdown would be a massive improvement. Run levels are *also* useful. Something like /etc/default to hold all the random *.conf files (/etc/conf.d?) would tidy up /etc no end too... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 21:17:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA17633 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 21:17:20 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA17628 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 21:17:16 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA07762; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:19:28 -0600 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:19:28 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199509240419.WAA07762@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multiple mail messages In-Reply-To: <199509230753.JAA17380@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <199509230325.XAA05328@healer.com> <199509230753.JAA17380@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ Multiple email messages ] > > People are generally too lazy to trim the Cc lists even when they know > that all recipients are actually on the mailing list. Actually, I *intentionally* leave people on the Cc lists if I think the material is going to be discussed some, since with the bulk_mailer stuff it is difficult to discuss topics with any sort of speed, since it may take a very long time for the person to get the reply via the mailing list. > That's why i'm > defending myself by dropping my name out of reply-to (ok, Nate, my > procmail is still not set up). *grin* In case you didn't know, procmail has a 'feature' which allows it to filter out duplicate email messges by using the Reference field. It's one of many reasons to use procmail. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 22:27:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA01463 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:27:21 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA01454 ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:27:18 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA04774; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:27:06 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199509240527.WAA04774@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Whither wait_t? To: jkh@freefall.freebsd.org (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199509232157.OAA03165@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 23, 95 02:57:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 780 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hmm looking at osf/1 (the closet thing to posix I've ever seen......) #ifdef _POSIX_SOURCE /* * If the user defines _BSD, they are obviously not looking for * POSIX definitions with respect to wait, so give 'em the BSD * interface. * */ #ifndef _KERNEL #ifndef _BSD /* POSIX definition of wait() */ #ifdef _NO_PROTO extern pid_t wait(); #else extern pid_t wait(int *); #endif /* _NO_PROTO */ #endif /* _BSD */ ..... #endif /*_POSIX_SOURCE*/ and further down /* * Use of this union is deprecated */ union wait { but no definition of wait_t > > Shouldn't it be defined in sys/wait.h? Not in 2.1! :-( > > What's our evil friend POSIX say? I don't think POSIX has ever heard of wait_t (BTW what IS it?. it's not in 2.0.5 either..) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Sep 23 22:59:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA03867 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:59:44 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA03852 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:59:34 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA18367; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 15:57:25 +1000 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 15:57:25 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199509240557.PAA18367@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hm@altona.hamburg.com Subject: Re: LKM: how to fiddle in interrupt routine ptrs ? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Is there a generic or recommended way or example of installing a device's >interrupt routine at mod-loading a device driver LKM time ? See pcibus.c:pcibus_ihandler_attach/detach. There are some minor problems with these routines: - the `func' arg should already have the correct type (inthand2_t). - `deviced??' should be spelled `device_id??' - it isn't possible to give a correect device_id. 0 is for clkintr. The device_id is only used for counting interrupts. To fix this you would have to expand the string table in vector.s and edit it. - 1ul should be 1u. - update_intr_masks() and INTREN() and INTRDIS() may need to be called at a high ipl or with interrupts disabled. The whole routines may need to be called at a high ipl or with interrupts disablied. - INTRDIS() in pci_ihandler_detach() isn't right if several devices are sharing the interrupt. - INTRDIS() in pci_ihandler_detach() isn't right if the unregister_intr() fails. >Does one have to copy the old isa_devtab_xxx[], expand it with an entry >and exchange it with a new one ? That might work. You would have to edit the interrupt name string table too. It would be better to supply a dummy driver and replace that, >What is the way to tell the driver at mod-load time it's IRQ and i/o addr ? There is no way. You could use the values from the dummy driver. These values can be handled using standard methods (config, userconfig, dset). Bruce