From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 28 00:25:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA13647 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA13639 Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA10824; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:54:08 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199604280724.QAA10824@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/i386 locore.s To: phk@freefall.freebsd.org (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:54:08 +0930 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199604280714.AAA13158@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 28, 96 00:14:07 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp stands accused of saying: > > Modified: sys/i386/i386 locore.s > Log: > Fix some bugs I introduced and some old ones as well. > Add BDE_DEBUGGER back. > Improve quality of comments. Comments in locore.s?! Hmm, does this mean you understand it? How about some manual additions, quickly before comes to lay claim to your brain? 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 28 03:59:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA24870 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 03:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA24861 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 03:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uDUBb-0003vlC; Sun, 28 Apr 96 03:58 PDT Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04465; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 10:58:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Smith cc: phk@freefall.freebsd.org (Poul-Henning Kamp), chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/i386 locore.s In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:54:08 +0930." <199604280724.QAA10824@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 10:58:38 +0000 Message-ID: <4463.830689118@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Poul-Henning Kamp stands accused of saying: > > > > Modified: sys/i386/i386 locore.s > > Log: > > Fix some bugs I introduced and some old ones as well. > > Add BDE_DEBUGGER back. > > Improve quality of comments. > > Comments in locore.s?! Hmm, does this mean you understand it? How about > some manual additions, quickly before > comes to lay claim to your brain? 8) working on it :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 28 11:05:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13833 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (slcmodem1-p1-13.intele.net [206.29.206.112]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13825 Sun, 28 Apr 1996 11:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA05773; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 12:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 12:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199604281807.MAA05773@obie.softweyr.com> From: wes@intele.net To: "Gary Palmer" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Unixware In-Reply-To: <3157.830522276@palmer.demon.co.uk> References: <3157.830522276@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer writes: > The dream of a single flavour of Unix came a step closer last > week, as the seven firms that resell the operating system on Intel > platforms agreed to ditch their own versions and standardise on > Unixware. > > [...] > > "This is a long overdue move towards single Unix," said Mike > Martin, general manager of technology at ICL,which has been using > Unixware on all it's Unix boxes for a year. "The operating system will > cease to be a unique selling poing, instead we'll compete on things > like high-availability technology or the quality of our service." Everyone who wants a "single UNIX" raise your hands. Anyone? I had hoped this idiot idea would die along with VMS, but I guess the mindless minions of MicroSoft are still maintaining this is a disadvantage of UNIX. Considering the masses of software that won't run on all three of MicroSlop's "compatible" offerings -- Win 3.1, Win95, and WinNT -- I'm surprised *anyone* is still gullible enough to think this "one version" of UNIX is really going to end their compatibility woes. And, as the article artfully *didn't* point out, all of the UNIX vendors with a large enough installed base to go it on their own will continue to make the operating system a selling point. There are considerable differences between Solaris, HP-UX, and AIX, and they each perform better in certain environments. This means it will not be possible for *any* one operating system to compete with them in all areas, despite what the denizens of SCO would have you believe. IMHO, anything with the name "SCO" on it is to be avoided; I get much better tech support for FreeBSD, and FreeBSD is much more stable. ;^) -- Wes Peters | Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late Softweyr | The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder Consulting | I'm an over forty victim of fate... wes@intele.net | Jimmy Buffett From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 28 13:36:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA23316 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23307 Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:36:22 -0700 (PDT) From: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA22055; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:36:00 -0400 Received: (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA12690; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:09:41 -0400 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:09:30 -0400 (EDT) To: Gary Palmer cc: chat@freebsd.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: Unixware In-Reply-To: <3157.830522276@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > Seven switch to the Unixware standard > ------------------------------------- ... > vice-president for enterprise solutions. "But it also makes it cheaper > and easier for the software vendors to have only a single, Unixware > version to port to. It can cost about $1m for every Unix port." Wow! At a modest estimate, let's put 50 ports in the FreeBSD ports collection. That's $50 million right there! -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 28 17:25:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA06485 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA06470 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA23469; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:21:46 -0400 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199604290021.UAA23469@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Unixware To: wes@intele.net, chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Cc: s_ilgen@csc32.enet.dec.com (Sally Ilgen) In-Reply-To: <199604281807.MAA05773@obie.softweyr.com> from "wes@intele.net" at Apr 28, 96 12:07:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Gary Palmer writes: > > The dream of a single flavour of Unix came a step closer last > > week, as the seven firms that resell the operating system on Intel > > platforms agreed to ditch their own versions and standardise on > > Unixware. > > > > [...] > Everyone who wants a "single UNIX" raise your hands. Anyone? I had > hoped this idiot idea would die along with VMS, but I guess the > mindless minions of MicroSoft are still maintaining this is a > disadvantage of UNIX. FLAME ON! Unsubstantiated opinion follows. The point is -- it's much harder to standardize on applications in a Unix environment. What version of Framemaker are you running. Well, if you're running AIX 4.0.3 4.x. (5 just came out for AIX about a year after the Solaris/Sun OS one...) Why... because the releases are staged out in order to minimize the size of the development staff and to maximize the return on the initial development investment. Unix is harder to admin. Why. Well, the tools and commands differ between versions. I'm flexible. I've done SysIII, SysV Release 0, 2 and 3. I've done BSD 4.2, 4.3 varients, "Real-Time" Unix, SVR4, Solaris 2.3 and 2.4. If all I had was the "commercial vendor training" I'd spend all day on the phone to support. I have to study on my own. Hack at FreeBSD, Xenix, Coherent, Linux to try stuff that will work "generically" across "Unix" systems... Re: VMS -- at least their was ONE standard set of commands. There was real helpfiles. There WAS a support line with people who could rattle off MORE THAN THE 5 TOP reasons for a problem and they would work with you to resolve it. (BTW Microsoft fails on this one... try to understand Windows NT as shipped when you get messages like Sparrow initialization failed." What's a *^(&$# sparrow and why does it initialize.) The support by rote reading of prior database trouble tickets SUCKS big time. "But it's cheaper than hiring engineers to do that..." I make my living doing Unix admin and system support for AIX developers in-house right now. It was SunOS, HPUX, and Solaris before that. Xelos, RTU and MicroXelos and UniPlus (with Concurrent/Perkin Elmer and Masscomp HW) before that. Pyramid OS/x and DC/OSx and hardware before that. ...AND DEC Hardware Vax/VMS, RT11, RSX11 before that. Guess which one I found the most rational and logical. At least with a SINGLE Unix taking commercial hold on the Intel level it might push a standard up hill. Commercial data processing centers don't want to spend money on different OS's and multiple support crews. That's why NT is eating Unix's lunch on the desktop and why it's making major inroads into corporate servers. (I prefer Unix servers to NT. I prefer OS2 server to NT. I prefer Novell servers to NT. Why -- because I've got an irrational fear of Microsofts intentions in most things. They've got monopoly down better than anyone since Standard Oil. They've got it down much better than IBM or DEC ever could've dreamed of...) anyway ONE UNIX STANDARD is a good thing. My prediction is Unix will be dead or dying by 2005 (and hopefully NT won't survive for ever...but it scares me). They want DROIDS to run most corporate machines. A windows interface, a couple of pull downs, canned applications, a simple backup/restore application. They want $35k college kids (hell, they want less than that -- 2 year tech school wonders) to run the stuff. They're hiring Unix admins that I wouldn't have had as VMS operators... FLAME OFF. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive, Tinton Falls, NJ 07724, 908-389-3592 | pechter@shell.monmouth.com I'll run Win96 on my box when you pry the keyboard from my cold, dead hands. FreeBSD, OS/2, CP/M, RT11, spoken here. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 28 23:52:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25977 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25932 Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA06024; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:49:57 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA03487; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:51:04 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA00336; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:34:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199604290634.IAA00336@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Unixware To: gpalmer@freebsd.org (Gary Palmer) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:34:51 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <3157.830522276@palmer.demon.co.uk> from Gary Palmer at "Apr 26, 96 01:37:56 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gary Palmer wrote: > Many of the seven SVR4 resellers - Compaq, Data General, ICL, > NCR, Olivetti, Siemens-Nixdorf and Unisys - already run Unixware on > their low-end Unix machines. I know two of them, DG and SNI. While SNI is basically a rather kludgy SVR4, the switch from Data General surprises me. They used to have a very cleanly implemented kernel that was shining on big multi- processors. Well, perhaps they keep their own kernel, their userland has already been SVR4-mostly. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 29 10:36:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA29376 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA29359 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id SAA08779 ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 18:23:13 +0100 (BST) To: Paul Traina cc: Darren Reed , stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Q on using "netpipes" for firewall maintanance tasks In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:13:54 PDT." <199604290613.XAA01257@precipice.shockwave.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 18:23:12 +0100 Message-ID: <8777.830798592@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Redirected to -chat] Paul Traina wrote in message ID <199604290613.XAA01257@precipice.shockwave.com>: > > Not buying the cisco box. > Is this just a blatant marketting plug or is there a reason behind this ? > Who, me? I'm just a stockholder. :-) Would you be the same ``Paul Trania of Cisco Systems'' that got named a couple of times in Sprint trouble tickets as working with them to solve the IS-IS adjacency problem in Cisco routers? :) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 29 12:57:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07478 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA07473 Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03098; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604291957.MAA03098@precipice.shockwave.com> To: "Gary Palmer" cc: Darren Reed , stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Q on using "netpipes" for firewall maintanance tasks In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Apr 1996 18:23:12 BST." <8777.830798592@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:57:06 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Q on using "netpipes" for firewall maintanance tasks [Redirected to -chat] Paul Traina wrote in message ID <199604290613.XAA01257@precipice.shockwave.com>: > > Not buying the cisco box. > Is this just a blatant marketting plug or is there a reason behind this ? > Who, me? I'm just a stockholder. :-) Would you be the same ``Paul Trania of Cisco Systems'' that got named a couple of times in Sprint trouble tickets as working with them to solve the IS-IS adjacency problem in Cisco routers? :) Who, me? I'm just a stockholder...and the guy who wrote and maintains most of the IP security part of the cisco router. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 29 17:26:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26012 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 17:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA26007 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 17:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA24311 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 17:26:36 -0700 (PDT) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Keith Bostic: TTLOTD - The Ten Usenet Commandments Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 17:26:36 -0700 Message-ID: <24309.830823996@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I rather like the first commandment.. :-) ------- Forwarded Message From: Keith Bostic To: /dev/null@mongoose.bostic.com Subject: TTLOTD - The Ten Usenet Commandments Forwarded-by: Peter Langston Forwarded-by: "Jack D. Doyle" Forwarded-by: siva@shape.ece.jhu.edu (K. Sivakumar) Chris Hennessy (chenness@enterprise.powerup.com.au) wrote: The brothers Usas and Senda, despairing of the state of UseNet, went unto the mountain at the feet of Net.God. "Oh Net.God, there is confusion and sorrow in your place of UseNet. The people worship false gods and knowst not your will." Net.God spoke unto Usas and Senda. "YOU PLAYETH THE GAME BY NET.GOD'S LAWS, OR THE BAT WILL BE DEPOSITED IN THE LIGHTLESS PLACE." Usas, being devout and greatly afeard of Net.God, prayed. "Lord, how am I to know your will?" And Net.God, being wise in the ways of Usas, spake thus, "THOU SHALT OBEY THE LAWS OF USENET, THERE BEING TEN, OR BE DAMNED UNTO THE LAST GENERATION," for He is a merciful God. So did Net.God deliver unto Usas the Commandments. THE TEN USENET COMMANDMENTS --------------------------- 1. Thou shalt not battle over operating systems. I am wise and in My wisdom have created diverse and various operating systems. Be true unto the chosen system and neither covet nor despise your neighbour's operating system. 2. Thou shalt not battle over nationalities or tribes. I have placed the UseNet aside from all things, and granted it unto Usas. I am blind to the place in which pray, all prayers being equal in Virtual Heaven. 3. Thou shalt not flame. Your Net.God has anger in His heart for those who flame without cause or who do persecute the spelling of others. In my wisdom I have created opinions to be as armpits; your's is warm and secure but thine neighbour's stinks. Tolerate others as you would be tolerated. Flames are Mine, and I do preserve some good ones for these people. 4. Thou shalt not MAKE-$$$$-FAST. I have made Usas wise that the love of money is the root of all evil. He who angers his neighbour by the wasting of bandwidth shall anger Net.God, and also by spamming or cluttering. I reserveth a special Hell for these, and great shall be their sorrow. 5. Thou shalt quote meaningfully. Net.God loves not the man who taketh more than needed nor he who quoteth all, including the sig. Render unto Net.God what is Net.God's, render unto Usas what is Usas; credit Senda for he is good. 6. Thou shalt e-mail personal prayers. I have rendered unto Usas the ability to talk to all the peoples of the world. I tell you, it is better to whisper into an ear than shout into a crowd. 7. Thou shalt not me-too. Make not your prayers to the Senda the knowledge of thine neighbour. The wisdom of Usas is the ability to speak to all people, and to choose to speak to one. 8. Thou shalt not cross post unwisely. The place I grant thee for rec.pets.cats is not the place of comp.unix.advocacy. 9. Thou shalt not post tests in profusion. I giveth unto you the lands of alt.test to learn of your God. Tend to Usas as I do My calves; let the new gather the strength to stand before joining with the herd. 10.Thou shalt send complete offerings. Send not to your God incomplete offerings. If the parts of the sacrifice number all the people of the world times ten your God will not be pleased to receive all but two. The blessing of Net.God is upon he who posts fewer large parts that he who posts many small ones. ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 30 01:33:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA18702 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 01:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA18680 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 01:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I45CGA5CLS002V9C@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:42:39 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA03331 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:50:27 +0200 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:50:27 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: GNU Debian and Hurd To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <199604300750.JAA03331@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just received an info from info-gnu (rms) about GNU no longer supporting Debian Linux and the status of HURD. If anyone's interested I post the article to the list. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 30 04:49:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA00863 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA00858 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I45KWGQ4J4002XUO@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:44:46 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA03780 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 12:36:00 +0200 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 12:36:00 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: GNU Debian and Hurd To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <199604301036.MAA03780@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sinces I've been asked more than once, here goes: --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de >From gnu@ai.mit.edu Tue Apr 30 04:00:43 1996 >Received: from acds (acds.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.30]) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA02579 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:00:41 +0200 >Received: by acds; (5.57/1.1.8.2/29Nov94-0208PM) > id AA15168; Tue, 30 Apr 96 03:53:51 +0200 >Received: from life.ai.mit.edu by gnu-life.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with SMTP id VAA03876 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 21:04:23 -0400 >Received: by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA24912; Mon, 29 Apr 96 20:19:54 EDT >Received: from gnu-life.ai.mit.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for /usr/lib/sendmail -odq -oi -finfo-gnu-ownrr@prep.ai.mit.edu info-gnu-gnu-life@gnu-life.ai.mit.edu id AA24290; Mon, 29 Apr 96 20:10:24 EDT >Received: by gnu-life.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) id TAA03749; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:36:43 -0400 >Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:36:43 -0400 >Resent-Message-Id: <199604292336.TAA03749@gnu-life.ai.mit.edu> >Received: from albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) for gnu id AA15358; Sun, 28 Apr 96 00:27:53 EDT >Received: from delasyd.gnu.ai.mit.edu by albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) with ESMTP id AAA21127 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:27:48 -0400 >Received: by delasyd.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) id AAA00388; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:27:37 -0400 >Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:27:37 -0400 >Message-Id: >From: Richard Stallman >Sender: gnu@prep.ai.mit.edu >To: info-gnu@prep.ai.mit.edu >Subject: The FSF is no longer sponsoring Debian >Resent-From: info-gnu-request@prep.ai.mit.edu >Status: RO > > The FSF is no longer sponsoring Debian > > >Two years ago, the FSF decided we wanted to distribute a version of >the GNU system using the Linux kernel. The planned GNU kernel (the >Hurd) was not ready, and Linux was; people were starting to combine >Linux with the GNU system to make runnable complete systems, and these >were clearly useful. We wanted to get involved with supporting and >distributing such a system. > >We wanted an integrated system that was easy to install, not a >collection of sources that each user had to compile. We also wanted a >system that was not associated with any particular commercial company. >Ian Murdock had started to put together a such system, called Debian, >and he sought the FSF's sponsorship. He hoped that integrating Debian >would serve as preparation for integrating the GNU system, and he >hoped to be involved in that job. We agreed that the FSF would >sponsor Debian development, and for part of that time, one year, Ian >was on the FSF full-time paid staff. The FSF looked forward to >distributing Debian on a CD-ROM. > >We decided jointly to call the system "Debian GNU/Linux". Many people >think that name referred to the FSF's sponsorship--that it said that >Debian was the one "Linux system" chosen by the GNU project. Debian >*was* the one we had chosen, but that is not what the name meant. > >"GNU/Linux" is short for "Linux-based GNU system"; it means a >combination of Linux, which is a kernel, with (a variant of) the GNU >system. Most people call these combinations "Linux systems", in >effect identifying the whole system with the kernel. We would rather >make that distinction clear. We want people to be aware that these >complete systems are pretty much the same GNU system we've been >assembling for a decade. > >The GNU project set out in 1984 to develop a complete free Unix-like >system. We found some free components available (including X and >TeX), pushed for others to be made free (some BSD software), and wrote >the parts that were missing (these, strictly speaking, are the GNU >software), all so we could put them together to make a complete >system--the GNU system. > >Debian is not the only combination of Linux and GNU. Slackware is >also one. So are many commercial system distributions such as Red Hat >and Yggdrasil--they are all combinations of the Linux kernel and a >variant GNU system. We call all of them Linux-based GNU systems, and >we wish their distributors would, too. > >We originally hoped that Debian would be ready for a CD-ROM in early >1995. Like many software projects, Debian took much longer than >expected; it still isn't ready. A delay is not a disaster, but in the >mean time, a more serious problem has arisen. > >This March, Ian Murdock stepped down as leader of Debian development, >saying that he was too busy with school to do the job properly. The >people now working on Debian do not want the FSF as a sponsor. >They've said that the FSF can use Debian on an as-is basis, and can >make suggestions to them, but they have rejected any closer >relationship. > >The present developers have also changed the name of the project; they >now call Debian a "Linux system". It is still a combination of the >Linux kernel with a variant GNU system, but unlike Ian Murdock and the >FSF, they don't wish to affirm this in the name. > >These decisions imply that the FSF is no longer sponsoring Debian. > >It's not clear whether the FSF should still plan to distribute a >Debian CD. When Debian is ready, we can distribute it if we want to. >However, now that we are no longer a sponsor of Debian, this would >serve only part of the purpose that we originally hoped for. > >Meanwhile, the Hurd continues to advance; it now supports NFS, and its >developers use it regularly for its own development. They can even >debug Hurd servers with GDB while GDB uses those same servers to >access files. (For more info about the Hurd, see the unofficial Hurd >web page, http://www/cs/pdx.edu/~trent/gnu/hurd/index.html.) > >So we may yet distribute a version of Debian, or we may make our first >complete system distribution a Hurd-based GNU system. We haven't >decided yet. > > --------------------- End of forwarded Message ---------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 30 07:42:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA11805 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 07:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA11799 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 07:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA04836; Tue, 30 Apr 96 14:42:34 GMT Message-Id: <9604301442.AA04836@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA037615353; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:42:33 -0600 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:42:33 -0600 From: Sean Kelly To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199604300750.JAA03331@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> (kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) Subject: Re: GNU Debian and Hurd Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Christoph" == "Christoph P Kukulies" writes: Christoph> If anyone's interested I post the article to the list. Go ahead. Thanks. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 1 08:55:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA18439 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (slcmodem1-p3-1.intele.net [206.29.206.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18384 for ; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA08723; Wed, 1 May 1996 09:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605011558.JAA08723@obie.softweyr.com> From: wes@intele.net To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unixware In-Reply-To: <199604290021.UAA23469@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199604281807.MAA05773@obie.softweyr.com> <199604290021.UAA23469@shell.monmouth.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wrote: > > Everyone who wants a "single UNIX" raise your hands. Anyone? I had > > hoped this idiot idea would die along with VMS, but I guess the > > mindless minions of MicroSoft are still maintaining this is a > > disadvantage of UNIX. pechter@shell.monmouth.com replied with: > FLAME ON! Unsubstantiated opinion follows. > > The point is -- it's much harder to standardize on applications in a > Unix environment. What version of Framemaker are you running. > Well, if you're running AIX 4.0.3 4.x. (5 just came out for AIX about a > year after the Solaris/Sun OS one...) > > Why... because the releases are staged out in order to minimize the size of > the development staff and to maximize the return on the initial development > investment. On the other hand, Security Toolkit/UNIX 3.1, my "baby", was released simultaneously on 13 different* UNIX platforms, from a staff of three software engineers. Believe me, STK/U has *a lot* more platform dependencies than Frame. Been there, done that, got the grey hair to show for it. It ain't easy, but really is no more difficult than say, writing code that works with different "code pages" on DOS and Win 3.1, full Unicode on NT, and that half-baked mess on Win95, but everyone seems to think of that as being "reasonable." Because MasterGates says it's reasonable, I guess. (The 14 different UNIXes? SunOS/SPARC, SunOS/68k, Solaris/SPARC, RISC Ultrix, VAX Ultrix, DEC UNIX AXP, HP-UX HPPA, HP-UX 68k, AIX RS/6000, SVR4/88k, SVR3/88k, SVR3/68k, and SVR4/386.) > Unix is harder to admin. Why. Well, the tools and commands differ between > versions. I'm flexible. I've done SysIII, SysV Release 0, 2 and 3. > I've done BSD 4.2, 4.3 varients, "Real-Time" Unix, SVR4, Solaris 2.3 and > 2.4. If all I had was the "commercial vendor training" I'd spend all day on > the phone to support. I have to study on my own. Hack at FreeBSD, > Xenix, Coherent, Linux to try stuff that will work "generically" across > "Unix" systems... Well, obviously, you need "Enterprise Access Control." Too bad my former employer screwed that product into the ground. Tivoli TME or CA-Unicenter will go a long way towards curing your cross-platform sys admin woes, and *still* give you many more performance options than NT dreamed of. You see, the really cool part here is that you have a choice. You can, as so many do, choose to believe that there is no solution to this problem in UNIX-land, but you'd be wrong. You can choose to not buy anything, and do things the hard way, or you can choose to study the market and buy the best tool for your needs. With VMS, or WinNT, you can choose to use the (poor, IMHO) tools "given" to you by the vendor, or not do it at all. > Re: VMS -- at least their was ONE standard set of commands. There was > real helpfiles. There WAS a support line with people who could rattle off > MORE THAN THE 5 TOP reasons for a problem and they would work with you > to resolve it. (BTW Microsoft fails on this one... try to understand > Windows NT as shipped when you get messages like Sparrow initialization > failed." What's a *^(&$# sparrow and why does it initialize.) Which standard set of commands? V4, V5, or V6? DEC had a nasty habit of breaking everything in VMS each time they did a major version upgrade; witness the e-mail incompatibilities between VMS 3.x and 4.x, or the backup incompatibilities between 4.x and 5.x, etc. VMS had its good points, but from a system programming standpoint, consistency was not one of them. All of those different layers of operating system, each with a completely different API philosophy, could get pretty annoying. > The support by rote reading of prior database trouble tickets SUCKS > big time. "But it's cheaper than hiring engineers to do that..." Sounds like you need a better system vendor. Try Sun or SGI. Avoid IBM like the plague they are. > I make my living doing Unix admin and system support for AIX > developers in-house right now. It was SunOS, HPUX, and Solaris > before that. Xelos, RTU and MicroXelos and UniPlus (with > Concurrent/Perkin Elmer and Masscomp HW) before that. Pyramid OS/x > and DC/OSx and hardware before that. > > ...AND DEC Hardware Vax/VMS, RT11, RSX11 before that. Guess which > one I found the most rational and logical. At least with a SINGLE > Unix taking commercial hold on the Intel level it might push a > standard up hill. Been there, done that to. In addition to a wide variety of UNIX (all mentioned above, plus SVR2/286, SVR2/68k, {386,Net,Free}BSD, Minix and a smattering of Coherent, Concurrent (nee InterPig, er, InterData) OS/32, Harris VOS, RT-11, RSX-11, DOS, DG RDOS and AOS, CP/M, SuperDOS, and several embedded real-time OSs, including one I've pretty much rewritten from scratch in the last few months. I'd rather have choices than the "one true OS." I prefer SunOS (or, better yet, FreeBSD!) for uniprocessor workstations, Solaris for SMP workstations and severs, and HP-UX for database servers. All different, because the different machines and different user roles have different needs. > Commercial data processing centers don't want to spend money on different > OS's and multiple support crews. That's why NT is eating Unix's lunch > on the desktop and why it's making major inroads into corporate servers. > (I prefer Unix servers to NT. I prefer OS2 server to NT. I prefer Novell > servers to NT. Why -- because I've got an irrational fear of Microsofts > intentions in most things. They've got monopoly down better than anyone > since Standard Oil. They've got it down much better than IBM or DEC ever > could've dreamed of...) > anyway ONE UNIX STANDARD is a good thing. My prediction is Unix > will be dead or dying by 2005 (and hopefully NT won't survive for > ever...but it scares me). Funny, I seem to remember a lot of VMS people saying UNIX would be dead by 1990, or 1995, or whenever. Bought any VMS machines lately? Remember the predictions from 88/89 when OS/2 was going to kill UNIX? Doesn't seem to have happened. Or from '94, when NT was going to completely replace UNIX within a year? Then the UNIX vendors had record sales in 94 and 95. There will never be one UNIX standard, because the essence of the UNIX marketplace is choice and differentiation. The UNIX market will not coalesce around a single standard because that is not what the UNIX market wants. I agree that most large corporations are looking for a single-point solution to their application server woes, which makes them steer away from the UNIX market. Fine -- that doesn't mean we have to mold UNIX into the product they want; they can buy that elsewhere. These people can still buy MPE and OS/400, or NT, or NetWare, they just can't get the performance they can from the UNIX market. When they want the performance, they step into the big league, pick a vendor who will work with them, and make the relationship work. Or they end up as a UNIX disaster story, because they tried to implement UNIX their way, instead of the UNIX way. Neither is right or wrong, they're just different. > They want DROIDS to run most corporate machines. A windows interface, > a couple of pull downs, canned applications, a simple backup/restore > application. They want $35k college kids (hell, they want less than > that -- 2 year tech school wonders) to run the stuff. They're hiring > Unix admins that I wouldn't have had as VMS operators... Bill, you've made some good points, you've just drawn the wrong conclusions. Just because people want to buy Windows NT is not a sufficient argument to make UNIX into Windows NT. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing things the UNIX way; when the advantages outweight the disadvantages, customers will buy UNIX. When the disadvantages rule, they will buy something else. The job of the UNIX evangelists (i.e. Harris and Randy, see their monthly column at http://www.sun.com/sunworldonline) is to show people that some of the perceived disadvantages are simply not true. -- Wes Peters | Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late Softweyr | The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder Consulting | I'm an over forty victim of fate... wes@intele.net | Jimmy Buffett From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 1 09:44:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA29338 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 1 May 1996 09:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29333 for ; Wed, 1 May 1996 09:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA24010; Wed, 1 May 1996 12:40:54 -0400 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199605011640.MAA24010@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Unixware To: wes@intele.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Cc: wpechter@vnet.ibm.com (bill pechter) In-Reply-To: <199605011558.JAA08723@obie.softweyr.com> from "wes@intele.net" at May 1, 96 09:58:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Which standard set of commands? V4, V5, or V6? DEC had a nasty habit > of breaking everything in VMS each time they did a major version > upgrade; witness the e-mail incompatibilities between VMS 3.x and 4.x, > or the backup incompatibilities between 4.x and 5.x, etc. VMS had its > good points, but from a system programming standpoint, consistency was > not one of them. All of those different layers of operating system, > each with a completely different API philosophy, could get pretty > annoying. Geez, considering I was working at DEC and ran on both alpha and beta 3.x and 4.x at DEC I'm surprised about the "email incompatibilities"... Do you mean the stupid mailbox pointer problem. I dropped off the VMS stuff around 4.2... > > > The support by rote reading of prior database trouble tickets SUCKS > > big time. "But it's cheaper than hiring engineers to do that..." > > Sounds like you need a better system vendor. Try Sun or SGI. Avoid > IBM like the plague they are. Actually, I'm working for IBM now and so far it's better than HP or Sun for support. I had to really put aside my old DEC views of IBM when I showed up here. It ain't the same company and it doesn't have the same attitude I saw when the IBM techs refused to talk to me when I was a DEC Field Service guy in the same computer room. (The DG guy and HP guy talked to me and we even loaned each other tools... The big blue guy wouldn't respond to a hello...back then.) > Been there, done that to. In addition to a wide variety of UNIX (all > mentioned above, plus SVR2/286, SVR2/68k, {386,Net,Free}BSD, Minix and > a smattering of Coherent, Concurrent (nee InterPig, er, InterData) > OS/32, Harris VOS, RT-11, RSX-11, DOS, DG RDOS and AOS, CP/M, > SuperDOS, and several embedded real-time OSs, including one I've > pretty much rewritten from scratch in the last few months. > What's SuperDOS? I know TurboDOS, and the others by reputation... OS/32 is the OS from hell... Great OS capabilities with the WORST user tools/interface I've ever seen. (I used to work for them after DEC)... I loved getting them to talk TCP/IP and getting their Corporate Email up under SMTP after NEM (which looked like IBM Profs done on the cheap). > Funny, I seem to remember a lot of VMS people saying UNIX would be > dead by 1990, or 1995, or whenever. Bought any VMS machines lately? Almost, last week. A Vax3100 for my house... but I can't get the OS for it cheap. > Remember the predictions from 88/89 when OS/2 was going to kill UNIX? > Doesn't seem to have happened. I never felt that could happen -- or that the Microsoft/IBM mix would hold together... > Or from '94, when NT was going to completely replace UNIX within a year? > Then the UNIX vendors had record sales in 94 and 95. Watch and wait... > > There will never be one UNIX standard, because the essence of the UNIX > marketplace is choice and differentiation. The UNIX market will not > coalesce around a single standard because that is not what the UNIX > market wants. I agree that most large corporations are looking for a > single-point solution to their application server woes, which makes > them steer away from the UNIX market. Fine -- that doesn't mean we > have to mold UNIX into the product they want; they can buy that > elsewhere. > Sure and Unix will be a developer, hacker only OS. > These people can still buy MPE and OS/400, or NT, or NetWare, they > just can't get the performance they can from the UNIX market. When > they want the performance, they step into the big league, pick a > vendor who will work with them, and make the relationship work. Or > they end up as a UNIX disaster story, because they tried to implement > UNIX their way, instead of the UNIX way. Neither is right or wrong, > they're just different. > Watch. Pyramid and Sequent and DEC are doing big time multiprocessor NT boxes. It's just getting started. DEC's doing clusters -- the one thing they had to differentiate the VMS systems... > > They want DROIDS to run most corporate machines. A windows interface, > > a couple of pull downs, canned applications, a simple backup/restore > > application. They want $35k college kids (hell, they want less than > > that -- 2 year tech school wonders) to run the stuff. They're hiring > > Unix admins that I wouldn't have had as VMS operators... > > Bill, you've made some good points, you've just drawn the wrong > conclusions. Just because people want to buy Windows NT is not a > sufficient argument to make UNIX into Windows NT. There are > advantages and disadvantages to doing things the UNIX way; when the > advantages outweight the disadvantages, customers will buy UNIX. When > the disadvantages rule, they will buy something else. The job of the > UNIX evangelists (i.e. Harris and Randy, see their monthly column at > http://www.sun.com/sunworldonline) is to show people that some of the > perceived disadvantages are simply not true. > > -- > Wes Peters | Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late Wes -- just wait and see. Look back to where things were in 1976, then 86 then 96. Unix HAS peaked... or is just about to. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive, Tinton Falls, NJ 07724, 908-389-3592 | pechter@shell.monmouth.com I'll run Win96 on my box when you pry the keyboard from my cold, dead hands. FreeBSD, OS/2, CP/M, RT11, spoken here. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 2 16:27:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA04710 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 2 May 1996 16:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-175.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.175]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04687 Thu, 2 May 1996 16:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA06596; Thu, 2 May 1996 01:21:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605012321.BAA06596@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.jhs.no_domain: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Ollivier Robert cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Free pizza & beer for GCC Guru in or near Berlin From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (pending modem change) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH version 1.6.5 95 12 11, PGP available In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Apr 1996 11:14:28 +0200." <199604200914.LAA08680@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 01:21:34 +0200 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: Ollivier Robert > Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 11:14:28 +0200 (MET DST) > > It seems that Julian H. Stacey said: > > I know dynamic IP allocation is not unique to me ... what do others do ? > > Any solutions out there ? > > POP ? > > You have a From: which look like jhs@the.provider.com and you get the mail > with popclient. I do already, doesnt help the other users on my machine though. > Maybe a little tricky if you want to use procmail but it is doable. I use procmail to pre-sort all my freebsd & other mail lists. > Or you find someone on the Internet which is willing to open you an UUCP > account that you poll with UUCP/TCP every time you connect. Very easy. Bingo ! Good idea ! Thanks Ollivier :-) Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 2 21:58:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA24817 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 2 May 1996 21:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boner.mrami.com (mramirez.sy.yale.edu [130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24808 for ; Thu, 2 May 1996 21:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by boner.mrami.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA11345; Fri, 3 May 1996 00:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 00:58:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Ramirez To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Public Service Announcement Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I guess it's ready enough to open to the general public... http://www.mrami.com/~mrami/doc Suggestions are more than welcome. Marc. -- "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 07:57:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA07112 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 07:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA07104 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 07:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA07963; Fri, 3 May 96 14:56:53 GMT Message-Id: <9605031456.AA07963@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA297025413; Fri, 3 May 1996 08:56:53 -0600 Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:56:53 -0600 From: Sean Kelly To: mrami@mrami.com Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (message from Marc Ramirez on Fri, 3 May 1996 00:58:00 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Public Service Announcement Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Marc" == Marc Ramirez writes: Marc> http://www.mrami.com/~mrami/doc Great collection! I only wish the 'net was faster! -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 10:04:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA19587 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boner.mrami.com (mramirez.sy.yale.edu [130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19562 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 10:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by boner.mrami.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA14282; Fri, 3 May 1996 13:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:03:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Ramirez To: Sean Kelly cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Public Service Announcement In-Reply-To: <9605031456.AA07963@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 3 May 1996, Sean Kelly wrote: > >>>>> "Marc" == Marc Ramirez writes: > > Marc> http://www.mrami.com/~mrami/doc > > Great collection! I only wish the 'net was faster! That's probably my fault. I'm on a 14.4k SLIP link until this summer. Then I get 28.8 (shudder). Marc. -- There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 14:36:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13677 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13667 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA09545; Fri, 3 May 1996 17:36:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605032136.RAA09545@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (Jeff Uphoff) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Cc: pmurphy@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605032134.RAA04568@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> from "Jeff Uphoff" at May 3, 96 05:34:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeff Uphoff writes: > > ------- start of forwarded message (RFC 934 encapsulation) ------- > From: "Alexander O. Yuriev" > To: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu > cc: okir@monad.swb.de, stafford@bach.cis.temple.edu > Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 15:24:05 -0400 > > > - ------- Forwarded Message > > Return-Path: owner-linux-kernel-outgoing@vger.rutgers.edu > > Does anyone with a fireproof vest and a good drawing hand want to try > > a picture of the BSD daemon flat out on the floor with stars around its > > head and a penguin in boxing gloves standing on top ? > > Alan > > - ------- > > Best wishes, > Alex > ------- end ------- > I thought the Linux "mascot" was a damn platypus? Has it changed to a penguin? I suppose it doesn't matter, as both are [appropriately] quite silly. -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 14:41:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13974 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13966 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from juphoff@localhost) by tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (8.6.13/$Revision: 2.7 $) id RAA04616; Fri, 3 May 1996 17:41:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:41:19 -0400 Message-Id: <199605032141.RAA04616@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> From: Jeff Uphoff To: "matthew c. mead" Cc: pmurphy@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, chat@freebsd.org, alex@bach.cis.temple.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, May 3, 1996 17:36:36 -0400 References: <199605032134.RAA04568@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> <199605032136.RAA09545@neon.Glock.COM> X-Palindrome: God, Edam made dog. X-Mailer: VM 5.95 (beta); GNU Emacs 19.29.1 X-Attribution: Up Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "mcm" == matthew c mead writes: mcm> I thought the Linux "mascot" was a damn platypus? Has it mcm> changed to a penguin? I suppose it doesn't matter, as both are mcm> [appropriately] quite silly. Whereas the little horned fellow wearing sneakers and carrying a cattle prod is serious? --Up. -- Jeff Uphoff - systems/network admin. | juphoff@nrao.edu National Radio Astronomy Observatory | juphoff@bofh.org.uk Charlottesville, VA, USA | jeff.uphoff@linux.org PGP key available at: http://www.cv.nrao.edu/~juphoff/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 14:47:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14293 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14270 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 14:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA09631; Fri, 3 May 1996 17:46:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605032146.RAA09631@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (Jeff Uphoff) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Cc: pmurphy@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, chat@freebsd.org, alex@bach.cis.temple.edu In-Reply-To: <199605032141.RAA04616@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> from "Jeff Uphoff" at May 3, 96 05:41:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeff Uphoff writes: > "mcm" == matthew c mead writes: > mcm> I thought the Linux "mascot" was a damn platypus? Has it > mcm> changed to a penguin? I suppose it doesn't matter, as both are > mcm> [appropriately] quite silly. > Whereas the little horned fellow wearing sneakers and carrying a cattle > prod is serious? He represents something: the daemon process! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 15:04:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA14974 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 15:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA14968 Fri, 3 May 1996 15:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199605032204.PAA14968@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: mmead@Glock.COM (matthew c. mead) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, pmurphy@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, chat@freebsd.org, alex@bach.cis.temple.edu In-Reply-To: <199605032146.RAA09631@neon.Glock.COM> from "matthew c. mead" at May 3, 96 05:46:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk matthew c. mead wrote: > > Jeff Uphoff writes: > > > "mcm" == matthew c mead writes: > > > mcm> I thought the Linux "mascot" was a damn platypus? Has it > > mcm> changed to a penguin? I suppose it doesn't matter, as both are > > mcm> [appropriately] quite silly. > > > Whereas the little horned fellow wearing sneakers and carrying a cattle > > prod is serious? > > He represents something: the daemon process! > > processES. (soneone correct me here) one of the first uses of hte daemon image was at the 10th usenix. the t-shirts featured daemons running over a set of pipes doing all sorts or work. (i have never actually *seen* one, but i wish i had one :) jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 15:12:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA15647 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 15:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15639 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 15:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id XAA01003 ; Fri, 3 May 1996 23:11:13 +0100 (BST) To: "matthew c. mead" cc: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (Jeff Uphoff), pmurphy@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@bach.cis.temple.edu From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 03 May 1996 17:46:58 EDT." <199605032146.RAA09631@neon.Glock.COM> Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 23:11:12 +0100 Message-ID: <1001.831161472@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk x1"matthew c. mead" wrote in message ID <199605032146.RAA09631@neon.Glock.COM>: > He represents something: the daemon process! Eep. We only have one now? What happened to all the rest? Okay. Who took them? Come on, own up... :-) :-) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 15:15:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA15830 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 15:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15822 Fri, 3 May 1996 15:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09950; Fri, 3 May 1996 18:15:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605032215.SAA09950@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 18:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, pmurphy@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, alex@bach.cis.temple.edu In-Reply-To: <1001.831161472@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at May 3, 96 11:11:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer writes: > x1"matthew c. mead" wrote in message ID > <199605032146.RAA09631@neon.Glock.COM>: > > He represents something: the daemon process! > Eep. We only have one now? What happened to all the rest? > Okay. Who took them? Come on, own up... > :-) :-) Well, I never meant to imply that there was only one. I meant that it represents "a" daemon process. Hence the shirt with many of them running around on some pipes doing work. :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 3 22:41:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA11311 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA11304 for ; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id HAA03233 ; Sat, 4 May 1996 07:41:47 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id HAA28812 ; Sat, 4 May 1996 07:41:54 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id BAA15351; Sat, 4 May 1996 01:47:30 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605032347.BAA15351@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (Jeff Uphoff) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 01:47:30 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Chat Mailing List) In-Reply-To: <199605032141.RAA04616@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> from Jeff Uphoff at "May 3, 96 05:41:19 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1948 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jeff Uphoff said: > Whereas the little horned fellow wearing sneakers and carrying a cattle > prod is serious? Come on, even Linus himself admitted at a time he was a bit jealous of our oh so cute mascot :-) [ soap box on ] What is silly in the other idea is having the penguin (or whatever logo they want to take) knocking down Chuck. It is definitely the spirit no one among Linuxers & BSDers should have. We -- FreeBSD and Linux -- are competitors but not enemies. That's something I've never able to understand: raving Linux fanatics. There are also BSD raving fanatics of course but as there are more Linux fans, there are more fanatics too. I don't like fanatics, on either side. Blind bashing is stupid. Even simple bashing doesn't make things progress. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #14: Tue Apr 30 21:08:35 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 4 02:22:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA16189 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 4 May 1996 02:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA16177 for ; Sat, 4 May 1996 02:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA14635; Sat, 4 May 1996 11:21:43 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA09721; Sat, 4 May 1996 11:21:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA21783; Sat, 4 May 1996 11:08:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605040908.LAA21783@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 11:08:32 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605032347.BAA15351@keltia.freenix.fr> from Ollivier Robert at "May 4, 96 01:47:30 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > [ soap box on ] > > What is silly in the other idea is having the penguin (or whatever logo they > want to take) knocking down Chuck. It is definitely the spirit no one among > Linuxers & BSDers should have. This reminds me: one of Kirk McKusick's policies in the copyright of the daemon is that its use does not have to contradict ``common sense of good taste''. So one picture drawn by Tatsumi HOSOKAWA (the author of the picture on the FreeBSD 2.1 CDROM) where the daemon was smashing an (MS-)window has been withdrawn since it violated Kirk's copyright. Same would hold true for any picture that offends any sort of a Linux mascot. C'mon guys, be fair to everybody. Get whatever you like as a mascot, put it together with a BSD daemon into one picture if you like, as long as they make friends, but don't try offending each other's feelings. If you want some fair battle, make your system better in those areas where it doesn't shine yet. (We do, too.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 4 11:17:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18418 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 4 May 1996 11:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA18406 for ; Sat, 4 May 1996 11:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id RAA05082 for ; Sat, 4 May 1996 17:28:37 +0100 (BST) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Signs that technology has taken over your life Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 17:28:36 +0100 Message-ID: <5080.831227316@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does this sound like anyone you know? :-) Gary P.S. Appologies in advance for some (not obvious to me anyhow) US references. -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info ------- Forwarded Message Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 02:49:23 -0700 From: firetigr@ix.netcom.com (Anita D Clark) To: gpalmer@freebsd.org Subject: Hehehehe... This comes from a Comp Tech whose desk resembles WW3 and which is clean when she remembers to toss out her old Coke cans, remember. :) Signs That Technology Has Taken Over Your Life: Original source - Joe Mullich, AmericanWay Magazine 11/15/94 1. Your letterhead lists a fax number, e-mail addresses for two on-line services, and your Internet address, which spreads across the breadth of the letterhead and continues to the back. In essence, you have conceded that the first page of any letter you write IS letterhead. 2. You have never sat through an entire movie without having at least one device on your body beep or buzz. 3. You need to fill out a form that must be typewritten, but you can't. Though you own a laser printer, there isn't a typewriter in your house. 4. You think of the gadgets in your office as "friends," but you forget to send your father a birthday card. 5. When you go into a computer store, you eavesdrop on a salesperson talking with customers -- and you butt in to correct him. 6. You use the phrase "digital compression" in a conversation without thinking how strange your mouth feels when you say it. 7. You know Bill Gates' e-mail address, but you have to look up your own social security number. 8. You stop saying "phone number" and replace it with "voice number." 9. You sign Christmas cards by putting :-) next to your signature. 10. Off the top of your head, you can think of nineteen keystroke symbols that are far more clever than :-). 11. You back up your data every day. 12. Your wife asks you to pick up some minipads for her at the store and you return with a rest for your mouse. 13. You think jokes about being unable to program a VCR are stupid. 14. The thought that a CD could refer to finance or music rarely enters your mind. 15. You are able to argue persuasively that Ross Perot's phrase "electronic town hall" makes more sense than the term "information superhighway," but you don't because, after all, the man still uses hand-drawn pie charts. 16. You go to computer trade shows and map out your path of the exhibit hall in advance. But you cannot give someone directions to your house without looking up the street names. 17. You would rather get more dots per inch than miles per gallon. 18. You know without a doubt that disks come in five-and-a- quarter and three-and-a-half inch sizes. 19. Al Gore strikes you as an "intriguing" fellow. 20. You own a set of itty-bitty screw-drivers and you actually know where they are. 21. You are so knowledgeable about technology that you feel secure enough to say "I don't know" when someone asks you a technology question, instead of feeling compelled to make something up. 22. You rotate your screen savers more frequently than your automobile tires. 23. You have a functioning home copier machine, but every toaster you own turns bread into charcoal. 24. You understand all the jokes in this message. 25. You e-mail this message to your friends over the net. You'd never get around to showing it to them in person or reading it to them on the phone. In fact, you have probably never met most of these people face-to-face. 26. You send this list to people who are in your mailer's address book, but you don't remember who they are, nor do you care if you get a response. ------- End of Forwarded Message