From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 09:31:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA19141 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns1.cei.net (root@dns1.cei.net [204.117.117.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA19130 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.dancooks.com (smtp.dancooks.com [204.180.122.4]) by dns1.cei.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA27265 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:30:53 -0600 Received: from T2/SpoolDir by smtp.dancooks.com (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 16 Dec 96 11:31:38 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by T2 (Mercury 1.30); 16 Dec 96 11:31:32 -0600 From: "Jason Hudgins" Organization: Dan Cook's Inc. To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:31:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: backing up our freebsd box Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: <1FAC7FA47F5@smtp.dancooks.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We are using a FreeBSD box as our webserver on our network...we would like to back it up to our netware 4.1 server, which has a big 9 gig tape backup running backup exec. Whats the best way to do this...for security reasons we don't want to have our netware volumes mounted on our freebsd box...can anyone offer me any suggestions about how to do this? Any help will be greatly appreciated.. Thanks, Jason Hudgins Dan Cooks Computers From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 12:53:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA01820 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA01815 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA13148; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:53:09 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA22663; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:53:09 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA08770; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:51:13 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199612162051.VAA08770@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: crontab security hole To: downsj@teeny.org (Jason Downs) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:51:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: marcs@znep.com, dv@kis.ru, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199612161457.GAA18590@threadway.teeny.org> from Jason Downs at "Dec 16, 96 06:57:12 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jason Downs wrote: > Haven't any of you ever heard of a very simple and efficient non-stdio > routine called, of all things, strncpy()? Haven't any of you ever heard of the ugly misdesign of strn{cat,cpy}() to not delimit your string if it's reaching the end? I think this is violating the principle of least surprise... since they still have the `str' in the name, not `mem'. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 13:02:26 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA02518 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.188]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA02504 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:02:21 -0800 (PST) From: obrien@cs.ucdavis.edu Received: from kongur (kongur.cs.ucdavis.edu) by toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD.CS.2.6) id AA10074; Mon, 16 Dec 96 13:02:09 PST Received: by kongur (SMI-8.6/UCDCS.SECLAB.Solaris2-2.1) id VAA04538; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:02:08 GMT Message-Id: <199612162102.VAA04538@kongur> Subject: (Fwd) A different Visit from St. Nicholas To: tc@clark.net (Tom Corbin), chat@freebsd.org, Paul_Rizzo@sra.com (Paul Rizzo), quynh@cc.gatech.edu (Huong Q. Dinh) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:02:08 -0800 (PST) X-Pgp-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A Networkologist's Christmas (v3.1) " 'Tis the night before Christmas," , I thought with a frown. I was stuck at the office. The network was down. The routers were hung in the closet, all crashed. Their tables had holes in their data, all trashed. Remote distribution, it seems, just for fun, had erased DLLs Windows needed to run, on 84 desktops, way down in accounting. I sat stunned at my desk, my blood pressure mounting. When all of a sudden there arose such a clatter, I saw that a server had something the matter. There was smoke coming out of the main hard disk drive. "No problem," I thought, "I'm set up with RAID 5.". But I found out the system I thought was unstoppable had disk drives that turned out completely unswappable! "No problem," I thought, "I've tape backup to thank.". And then I discovered my backups were blank. The UPS burped, and its lights all went out. I started to scream! I started to shout! But nobody heard as I vented my rage, my gurus were all on vacation those days, and nobody's tech support answered the phone. I was nose deep in trouble, completely alone, when out at reception, I heard a soft knock. As the hands just touched midnight on my desktop clock... "What's your problem?", he asked, "Never mind, friend, I know. I checked out your network five hours ago. I did some proactive analysis, so I knew that this time bomb was going to blow." Who was this guy? Who did he think that he was? He was dressed in red coveralls, white beard, black gloves. His eyes had the twinkle of technical genius. His smile cut down personal distance between us. He spread out his tools, and went straight to his work. "Whoever configured this network's a jerk.", he said with a :-)> as he quickly rebooted, uploaded some software, and smoothly rerouted the LAN to a WAN that he quickly supplied with bandwidth at least 20 gigabits wide that went via wireless, I think, LEO, to tech support elves waiting at the North Pole. "Now bridging, now routing, now Ethernet hubs!", He chanted as each piece of hardware he rubbed. "Cheer up, my good friend! Lose that mindset so tragic! Technology often looks just like some magic To people who don't understand what we do. Now a switch, emulation, now middleware glue! Look at the protocols, check one or two, Debug a bit, test a bit, presto! We're through!" My data was back! Every system checked out! Tears of joy wet my face as I wandered about. "How can I thank you? You must be Saint Nick!" He said, "Really, my friend, it's not such a great trick, If you don't give up hope, focus on what you're doing, And read all your issues of NETWORK COMPUTING." And I heard him exclaim, as his reindeer were coursing, "Merry Christmas to all! And consider outsourcing!" -by Timothy Haight From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 13:59:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA06370 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.statsci.com (main.statsci.com [206.63.206.110]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA06359 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:59:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from statsci.com [206.63.206.184] with smtp by main.statsci.com with smtp (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.3 #3) id m0vZl3Y-0003xJC; Mon, 16 Dec 96 13:58 PST Message-Id: To: J Wunsch cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crontab security hole References: <199612162051.VAA08770@uriah.heep.sax.de> In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:51:12 +0100." <199612162051.VAA08770@uriah.heep.sax.de> Reply-to: scott@statsci.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:58:40 -0800 From: Scott Blachowicz Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > Haven't any of you ever heard of the ugly misdesign of strn{cat,cpy}() > to not delimit your string if it's reaching the end? I think this is > violating the principle of least surprise... since they still have the > `str' in the name, not `mem'. I agree with you, but on the other hand, it's not THAT hard to code it like this: char dest[N+1]; strncpy (dest, src, N); *(dest+N) = 0; Scott Blachowicz Ph: 206/283-8802x240 Mathsoft (Data Analysis Products Div) 1700 Westlake Ave N #500 scott@statsci.com Seattle, WA USA 98109 Scott.Blachowicz@seaslug.org From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 14:53:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA11122 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA11109 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:53:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id JAA23020; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:23:29 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199612162253.JAA23020@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: crontab security hole In-Reply-To: <199612161457.GAA18590@threadway.teeny.org> from Jason Downs at "Dec 16, 96 06:57:12 am" To: downsj@teeny.org (Jason Downs) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:23:28 +1030 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jason Downs stands accused of saying: > > Haven't any of you ever heard of a very simple and efficient non-stdio > routine called, of all things, strncpy()? > > It's been around for, like, ever. Tell you what; why not go bitch at Paul Vixie, seeing as the BSD cron is his work. Maybe he'll give in and worship your total hacking studliness, but I doubt it. > Jason Downs (503) 256-8535 -/- (503) 952-3749 -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 16:46:04 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA19940 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.hsc.wvu.edu (www.hsc.wvu.edu [157.182.105.122]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA19935 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsigmon@localhost) by www.hsc.wvu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA10108; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:46:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:46:22 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Sigmon To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: partitions vs filesystems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A friend of mine just installed Redhat Linux to play with it. He told me that you need to create separate partitions/file system for it. I know in FreeBSD I just create one partiton per drive and make my filesystems there. Does anyone know of any advantages/disadvantages to creating a partition per file system vs one partition and multiple file systems? ====================================================================== Jeremy Sigmon B.S. ChE | Web Developer of the Robert C. Byrd Health | Use Sciences Center of West Virginia University | FreeBSD WWW.HSC.WVU.EDU | Now Graduate Student in Computer Science | Office : 293-1060 | From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 17:51:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA23793 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from freeside.fc.net ([204.157.153.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA23787 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdunham@localhost) by freeside.fc.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA06805; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:49:13 -0600 From: Jerry Dunham Message-Id: <199612170149.TAA06805@freeside.fc.net> Subject: Re: TCP/IP bandwidth bragging To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:49:12 -0600 (CST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat), joe@mpd.tandem.com (Joe Senner), dunham@rider.fc.net (Jerry Dunham), mykonos@bga.com (Charles Barnett) In-Reply-To: <199612121907.OAA00411@papillon.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Dec 12, 96 02:07:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey babbled: > From: Greg Lehey > Subject: Re: TCP/IP bandwidth bragging > To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:07:07 -0500 (EST) > Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat), jdunham@fc.net, dunham@rider.fc.net > > J Wunsch writes: > > As Joe Greco wrote: > > > >> What are you bellyaching about!! I have.. a.. > >> > >> 386SX/16 with 3MB RAM (2 1x9's plus 4 256kX4's) > > > >> Any takers? I can (barely) think of worse configurations. Surely > >> somebody has one! > > > > Hmpf. Well, you'll get me to the point to test my 2 MB machine at > > work again! Some day... ;-) > > > > Last time i tested, the kernel had a bad bug that caused the KVA space > > to suddenly exhaust on such a small machine. Hence i've only got it > > into single-user mode, any multi-user attempt or other work than just > > a single shell quickly panicked the box. This kernel bug has been > > fixed since, so i might try again. > > Jerry Dunham has a 12 MHz 286 with 2 MB which used to run Xenix. He's > migrated to a 486 running FreeBSD, and I don't think he's had it > turned on in a while, but I gather it worked OK as a UUCP BBS. It worked great as a UUCP BBS (if you can really call it a BBS), but you have the description wrong. It was a 10 MHz 286 with 1 MB of RAM and a 20 MB hard drive running Xenix 286. It was used for a VERY small number of newsgroups plus personal e-mail for a little over half a dozen people and a user group mailing list. (Well, it MAY have actually run 12 MHz, but I recall it as 10. The rest I'm sure of. I think. I'll copy Joe Senner, who set this thing up originally, so he can call me a liar.) It's sitting in my upstairs hallway taking up space, right where you and I plopped it to make room for the 486. When last shut off it worked just fine, which means it runs UUCP a lot better than the FreeBSD machine. Believe it or not, this was really a quite usable machine, even with multiple users logged in simultaneously. Anyone care to comment on the usability of this same machine running Windoze? :-) -- Jerry Dunham GS650G Atarian ordinaire jdunham@fc.net (512)335-0674 (H) There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 19:19:07 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA22057 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:19:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from threadway.teeny.org (root@threadway.teeny.org [204.245.200.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA22052 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (downsj@localhost.teeny.org [127.0.0.1]) by threadway.teeny.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA22717; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:16:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612170316.TAA22717@threadway.teeny.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: J Wunsch cc: marcs@znep.com, dv@kis.ru, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crontab security hole In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:51:12 +0100." <199612162051.VAA08770@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:16:12 -0800 From: Jason Downs Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199612162051.VAA08770@uriah.heep.sax.de>, J Wunsch writes: >As Jason Downs wrote: > >> Haven't any of you ever heard of a very simple and efficient non-stdio >> routine called, of all things, strncpy()? > >Haven't any of you ever heard of the ugly misdesign of strn{cat,cpy}() >to not delimit your string if it's reaching the end? I think this is >violating the principle of least surprise... since they still have the >`str' in the name, not `mem'. strncat() always terminates, strncpy() does not if it runs out of space. Most people terminate the string at the length - 1 after the call to strncpy(), incase it didn't manage to. This is sufficient, and avoids going through any extra processing involved with *printf() as well as avoiding perhaps needlessly pulling in stdio code. It's bad programming practice to blindly use snprintf() without considering your options. (Just as it's bad to use strncpy() without terminating the string yourself, or call strncat() with the wrong length.) -- Jason Downs (503) 256-8535 -/- (503) 952-3749 downsj@teeny.org --> teeny.org: Free Software for a Free Internet <-- http://www.teeny.org/ This ain't no steeenking NetBSD. http://www.openbsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 16 20:25:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA25380 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA25375 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:25:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id VAA06692; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.ampr.ab.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12385; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:25:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:25:18 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@alive.ampr.ab.ca Reply-To: Marc Slemko To: Jason Downs cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: snprintf vs. strncpy (was: Re: crontab security hole) In-Reply-To: <199612170316.TAA22717@threadway.teeny.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Jason Downs wrote: > It's bad programming practice to blindly use snprintf() without considering > your options. (Just as it's bad to use strncpy() without terminating the > string yourself, or call strncat() with the wrong length.) I think this discussion is far too sane. Let's see who can make up the most meaningless numbers. marcs@alive:/tmp/str$ ls snprintf strncpy strncpy-2.c snprintf.c strncpy-2 strncpy.c marcs@alive:/tmp/str$ cat snprintf.c #include int main () { char s[] = "jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj"; char t[200]; int c; for (c = 0; c < 500000; c++) { snprintf(t, sizeof(t), "%s", s); } } marcs@alive:/tmp/str$ cat strncpy.c #include int main () { char s[] = "jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj"; char t[200]; int c; for (c = 0; c < 500000; c++) { strncpy(t, s, sizeof(t)); t[sizeof(t)-1] = '\0'; } } marcs@alive:/tmp/str$ cat strncpy-2.c #include int main () { char s[] = "jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj"; char t[200]; int c; for (c = 0; c < 500000; c++) { strncpy(t, s, sizeof(t)); } } marcs@alive:/tmp/str$ time ./snprintf ; time ./strncpy ; time ./strncpy-2 6.86 real 5.65 user 0.02 sys 11.50 real 9.85 user 0.00 sys 9.54 real 9.15 user 0.01 sys marcs@alive:/tmp/str$ Hmm. Seems like snprintf is nearly twice as fast in this case. What was that about considering your options? Considering that we already have sprintf in Vixie's code... (No, I don't think snprintf is better than strncpy all the time, or perhaps even most of the time but I don't see any reason to complain about using snprintf instead of strncpy. It is bad programming practice to do _ANYTHING_ without considering your options. What I do think is that we need a freebsd-silly-numbers mailing list... I'm sure someone can reverse these numbers for me.) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 01:21:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA10518 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA10511 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA07955 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:21:12 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA02629 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:21:11 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id JAA14284 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:51:40 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199612170851.JAA14284@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: snprintf vs. strncpy (was: Re: crontab security hole) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:51:40 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Marc Slemko at "Dec 16, 96 09:25:18 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Marc Slemko wrote: > I think this discussion is far too sane. Let's see who can make up the > most meaningless numbers. > marcs@alive:/tmp/str$ time ./snprintf ; time ./strncpy ; time ./strncpy-2 > 6.86 real 5.65 user 0.02 sys > 11.50 real 9.85 user 0.00 sys > 9.54 real 9.15 user 0.01 sys > marcs@alive:/tmp/str$ funny. :) > Hmm. Seems like snprintf is nearly twice as fast in this case. > What was that about considering your options? Considering that we > already have sprintf in Vixie's code... Yep, that's about my thought as well... and, it's often pointless to over-optimize e.g. one-time initializations if the real waste of time happens somewhere in an inner loop that's called a thousand times anyway. (I haven't checked crontab, and i don't claim this were the case there.) Btw., the ``bloat!'' argument is a moot point for shared linked programs anyway. stdio is always present then in its shared incarnation, and due to so many programs using it so heavily, there's a high probability that the related pages from the shared lib are semi-resident in memory. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 01:22:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA10598 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA10577 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA08004; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:21:35 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA02640; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:21:33 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id KAA14465; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:06:02 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199612170906.KAA14465@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: crontab security hole To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:06:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: downsj@teeny.org (Jason Downs) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199612170316.TAA22717@threadway.teeny.org> from Jason Downs at "Dec 16, 96 07:16:12 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jason Downs wrote: > strncat() always terminates, strncpy() does not if it runs out of space. I've been confused about the former, but the latter is what i call an error by design. (There are more of them in the C standard library, like the missing snprintf() or a similar function, and the existance of gets().) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 01:52:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA11946 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA11935 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:52:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA09476; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:51:43 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA02946; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:51:42 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id KAA15078; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:49:18 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199612170949.KAA15078@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: partitions vs filesystems To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:49:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: jsigmon@www.hsc.wvu.edu (Jeremy Sigmon) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Jeremy Sigmon at "Dec 16, 96 07:46:22 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jeremy Sigmon wrote: > A friend of mine just installed Redhat Linux to play with it. He told > me that you need to create separate partitions/file system for it. I know in > FreeBSD I just create one partiton per drive and make my filesystems there. > Does anyone know of any advantages/disadvantages to creating a partition per > file system vs one partition and multiple file systems? You're also using one partition per filesystem in FreeBSD. It's only that BSD follows the `classic' Unix tradition to have a disklabel (and thusly partition table) of its own. When being moved onto the PeeCee, it's been faced with an already existing partitioning scheme there. It has first ignored this one (386BSD 0.0), later tweaked its own idea so that it could at least handle being put into a single `partition' from a machine's point of view (386BSD 0.1 through FreeBSD 2.0), and finally fully integrated the PeeCee partitioning scenario as well (FreeBSD 2.0.5). In order to distinguish between BSD and PeeCee partitions, the latter are being called `slices' in FreeBSD. PC Unix systems that have grown up on the PC hardware were more familiar with PC partitioning schemes to begin with, and haven't developed a partitioning scheme of its own (Minix, Linux, maybe also Coherent). I dunno how Linux handles partitioning e.g. on the Alpha. You can still operate FreeBSD in the old Unix way where it owns the entire disk, so the fdisk table (though basically present) becomes moot. That's what we call ``dangerously dedicated'' mode. I'm sure Bruce will correct some of the opinions stated here. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 09:12:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA06777 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA06771 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA02339 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:11:28 GMT Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:11:23 +0000 Received: from tees.elsevier.co.uk (tees.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.60]) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA06768; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:11:10 GMT Received: (from dpr@localhost) by tees.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA01048; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:09:50 GMT To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: chat@freebsd.org, jsigmon@www.hsc.wvu.edu (Jeremy Sigmon) Subject: Re: partitions vs filesystems References: <199612170949.KAA15078@uriah.heep.sax.de> From: Paul Richards Date: 17 Dec 1996 17:09:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: J Wunsch's message of Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:49:17 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <57n2vd2j36.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > PC Unix systems that have grown up on the PC hardware were more > familiar with PC partitioning schemes to begin with, and haven't > developed a partitioning scheme of its own (Minix, Linux, maybe also > Coherent). I dunno how Linux handles partitioning e.g. on the Alpha. >From the little I've played with it it seems to put an MBR on the disk :-) This isn't so silly because so does NT :-) The PC way of sharing disks has become something of a cross-platform standard where a Microsoft OS is available for that platform. Kind of makes our life easier I guess since it means we can use the same code. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 14:42:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA24860 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.fasts.com (root@server.fasts.com [199.125.215.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA24830 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.fasts.com ([199.125.215.66]) by fasts.com with SMTP id <14-24190>; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:42:12 +0000 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:42:11 +0000 () From: Victor Rotanov To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: not really freebsd question... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi guys :) Today i tried to register internet.lv domain and got an e-mail saying that the word 'internet' is kinda well-known word, and getting internet.lv is impossible. Your opinions :) Thanks, bye. vitjok From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 15:51:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA00225 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from junior.lgc.com (junior.lgc.com [134.132.72.99]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA00210 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from dympna by junior.lgc.com (8.6.9/lgc.1.26) id RAA14047; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:51:02 -0600 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:49:13 -0600 (CST) From: Rob Snow X-Sender: rsnow@dympna To: Ollivier Robert cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EDO parit RAM (Was Re: Tyan ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Speaking of archives, any word on when the archives might be back? I've started keeping a local archive since the loss of the disk, but I of course don't have anything before the crash. -Rob (BTW, I moved this to chat) On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Ping Mai: > > What's wrong with ECC mode only memory? Where can you find parity > > 15% loss of performance if I remember well. See the archives of the list. > > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #31: Tue Dec 3 23:52:58 CET 1996 > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 17:16:56 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA05984 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from midway.evtech.com (midway.evtech.com [204.96.163.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA05975 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:16:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from tahiti.evtech.com (tahiti.evtech.com [192.35.179.19]) by midway.evtech.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA17662; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:16:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from borneo.evtech.com (borneo.evtech.com [192.35.179.29]) by tahiti.evtech.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA15909; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:16:46 -0600 Message-Id: <199612180116.TAA15909@tahiti.evtech.com> To: netbsd-users@NetBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@freebsd.ORG Subject: Jolitz Preaches NT Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:16:44 -0600 From: Travis Hassloch x231 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, according to Unix Review, January 1997, page 5, Bill Jolitz, author of 386BSD and open software advocate, gave a seminar at the Software Development conference entitled, "Why Windows NT Will Bury UNIX". I feel sorry for anyone waiting for 386BSD 0.2. I hope they all gave up years ago. While I admire the ability to grow and change viewpoints, I think I speak for everyone when I say, "what the heck was that all about"? There is no doubt in my mind that NT will be a better financial success than free Unixes. So what? Tell us something we don't know. Since when has financial success ever indicated technical merit? (I'm not on the list, just thought you might want to know this factoid) -- Travis Hassloch | CIEC EFF ACLU FSF PGP RTFM | P=NP if (P=0 or N=1) ``Ah yes, popularity... the hallmark of mediocrity.'' -- Frasier From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 17:36:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA07168 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:36:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA07159 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA23598; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:33:43 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:33:43 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Travis Hassloch x231 cc: netbsd-users@NetBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@freebsd.ORG Subject: Re: Jolitz Preaches NT In-Reply-To: <199612180116.TAA15909@tahiti.evtech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a couple of points on Bill Jolitz's `NT will bury Unix' remark: On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Travis Hassloch x231 wrote: > I feel sorry for anyone waiting for 386BSD 0.2. > I hope they all gave up years ago. 1.0 has been out for some time. It's not free. To forstall the inevitable accusations that it's missing some of the features or stability of the other BSDs, I'd like to point out that that's right up there with accusing the FreeBSD folks of not having multi-CPU support: truthful, but a bit pointless because it's not a primary aim of the developers. The primary aim of 386BSD is to be read by those interested in learning about operating systems. And it does have an advantage in this regard over any other BSD out there right now: there's at least one book that goes into the gory details of how it works. > There is no doubt in my mind that NT will be a better financial success > than free Unixes. So what? Tell us something we don't know. > Since when has financial success ever indicated technical merit? Since when did saying `NT will bury Unix' have anything to do with technical merit? cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 De gustibus, aut bene aut nihil. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 17:42:49 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA07545 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA07540 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:42:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA04644; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:42:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:42:41 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Rob Snow cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EDO parit RAM (Was Re: Tyan ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Rob Snow wrote: > Speaking of archives, any word on when the archives might be back? They have been back for a while (several days at least). Some of the older stuff (1994 vintage) has not been recovered (yet) though. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 17 19:49:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA13868 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:49:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from hnaa.utmb.edu (hnaa.utmb.edu [129.109.12.192]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA13863 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:49:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612180349.TAA13863@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from psypo.med.utmb.edu by hnab.utmb.edu with SMTP; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:49:41 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:35:00 -0600 From: "Hymel, Ernie" Subject: Re: partitions vs filesystems To: Paul Richards Cc: chat X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk | From: Paul Richards | | From the little I've played with it it seems to put an MBR on the disk :-) | This isn't so silly because so does NT :-) Actually, NT does not touch the MBR, which is why both FreeBSD's and NT's boot managers can live on the same disk with no conflict. This is at least true for NT4; don't know about Linux since I don't use it. ;) Ernest Hymel From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 18 00:04:23 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA23160 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:04:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA23149 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) id KAA22761; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:03:00 +0200 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:03:00 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Victor Rotanov cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: not really freebsd question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Victor Rotanov wrote: > > Hi guys :) > > Today i tried to register internet.lv domain and got an e-mail saying that > the word 'internet' is kinda well-known word, and getting internet.lv is > impossible. > > Your opinions :) > > Thanks, bye. > vitjok > > At least for domains here in Israel (.il) the rules are that they may contain neither the work "internet" nor "www". However, something like "inter-net" is legal. There is even an ISP here with the domain name inter.net.il. Nadav From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 18 21:59:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA02138 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns1.cei.net (root@dns1.cei.net [204.117.117.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA02129 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:59:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.dancooks.com (smtp.dancooks.com [204.180.122.4]) by dns1.cei.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA30786 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:59:21 -0600 Received: from T2/SpoolDir by smtp.dancooks.com (Mercury 1.12); Thu, 19 Dec 96 0:00:05 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by T2 (Mercury 1.30); 18 Dec 96 14:44:45 -0600 From: "Jason Hudgins" Organization: Dan Cook's Inc. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:44:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: another dumb question.. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: <22E0277201A@smtp.dancooks.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk eeks..I don't know why..but I am having a tremendously difficult time mounting my hard drive from the fixit floppy... mount /dev/wd0s1 /mnt gives me an *incorrect superblock* wd0s1 should be the first hard drive..(I only have one in the machine..slice 1) right? is a slice the equivalent of a partition? There is nothing wrong with the hard drive... it boots fine...freebsd runs happily. Thanks, Jason From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 18 21:59:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA02153 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns1.cei.net (root@dns1.cei.net [204.117.117.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA02137 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.dancooks.com (smtp.dancooks.com [204.180.122.4]) by dns1.cei.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA30789 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:59:22 -0600 Received: from T2/SpoolDir by smtp.dancooks.com (Mercury 1.12); Thu, 19 Dec 96 0:00:05 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by T2 (Mercury 1.30); 18 Dec 96 14:51:21 -0600 From: "Jason Hudgins" Organization: Dan Cook's Inc. To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:51:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Another dumb question Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: <22E1E9A4B24@smtp.dancooks.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk eeks..I don't know why..but I am having a tremendously difficult time mounting my hard drive from the fixit floppy... mount /dev/wd0s1 /mnt gives me an *incorrect superblock* wd0s1 should be the first hard drive..(I only have one in the machine..slice 1) right? is a slice the equivalent of a partition? There is nothing wrong with the hard drive... it boots fine...freebsd runs happily. Thanks, Jason From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 19 12:23:30 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA09048 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA09018 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:23:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA16881; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:22:13 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA01145; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:21:57 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA01015; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:20:58 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199612192020.VAA01015@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: another dumb question.. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:20:58 +0100 (MET) Cc: Hudginsj@smtp.dancooks.com (Jason Hudgins) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <22E0277201A@smtp.dancooks.com> from Jason Hudgins at "Dec 18, 96 02:44:45 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jason Hudgins wrote: > mount /dev/wd0s1 /mnt > gives me an *incorrect superblock* Right. /dev/wd0s1 is likely to not have a correct UFS superblock, and UFS is the default fstype for mount(8). > is a slice the equivalent of a partition? No. Slices are super-partitions. For example: +-----------------+-------------------------+--------------------+ | slice 1 | slice 2 | slice 3 | | type FAT | type *BSD | empty | | wd0s1 | wd0s2 | | +-----------------+-------+-------+---------+--------------------+ | |part a |part b |part e | | | (no part's) |root fs|swap |/usr fs | (no part's) | | |wd0s2a |wd0s2b |wd0s2e | | +-----------------+-------+-------+---------+--------------------+ | alias: wd0s2c | +-------------------------+ -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 19 12:48:10 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA10512 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:48:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fedex.mpd.tandem.com (fedex.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.250.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA10487 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from trinity (trinity.mpd.tandem.com [192.74.132.92]) by fedex.mpd.tandem.com (8.8.4/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA07474; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:43:20 -0600 (CST) Received: by trinity (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA25218; Thu, 19 Dec 96 14:43:37 CST From: joe@austx.tandem.com (Joe Senner) Message-Id: <9612192043.AA25218@trinity> Subject: Re: TCP/IP bandwidth bragging To: jdunham@fc.net (Jerry Dunham) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:43:36 -0600 (CST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, joe@mpd.tandem.com, dunham@rider.fc.net, mykonos@bga.com In-Reply-To: <199612170149.TAA06805@freeside.fc.net> from "Jerry Dunham" at Dec 16, 96 07:49:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ]It worked great as a UUCP BBS (if you can really call it a BBS), but you ]have the description wrong. It was a 10 MHz 286 with 1 MB of RAM and a 20 ]MB hard drive running Xenix 286. It was used for a VERY small number of ]newsgroups plus personal e-mail for a little over half a dozen people and ]a user group mailing list. (Well, it MAY have actually run 12 MHz, but ]I recall it as 10. The rest I'm sure of. I think. I'll copy Joe Senner, ]who set this thing up originally, so he can call me a liar.) it was 10Mhz, that being a longer term memory sort of explains how you got it right. that or dumb luck :) don't forget that before it ran your stuff it ran a 400 user mailing list that ran 100-200 messages each day to each of those 400 people :) -- Joe Senner We have enough youth, how about a fountain of "smart". From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 20 16:18:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA16693 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from abacus.tioga.com (root@abacus.tioga.com [205.146.65.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA16672; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from riffraff.tioga.net (tbalfe@riffraff.tioga.net [205.146.65.11]) by abacus.tioga.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12375; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:45:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961221001827.006879a4@email.tioga.com> X-Sender: tbalfe@email.tioga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:18:27 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Thomas J Balfe Subject: FreeBSD Oriented Music Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Seasons Greetings, As 1997 gets ready to shove off and FreeBSD gets ready to head into another fresh year, I thought it would be fitting to throw together some midi music to usher in the new year. With hits like "FreeBSD 1997", "The Gary Palmer", "Jordan Hubbard Ballad" and others that I made for friends on irc, it's a lot of fun. You can check them out on my ftp server: ftp://ftp.tioga.com/pub/staff/tbalfe/MIDI/ Regards, Tom ======================================================================== Thomas J Balfe tbalfe@tioga.net President http://www.tioga.net/ Tioga Communications, Inc 814-861-2100 ======================================================================== "Humanity has been compared...to a sleeper who handles matches in his sleep and wakes to find himself in flames." - H.G. Wells The World Set Free 1914 From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 20 17:24:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18968 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA18951; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:24:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA25716; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:24:42 -0800 (PST) To: Thomas J Balfe cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Oriented Music In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:18:27 EST." <1.5.4.32.19961221001827.006879a4@email.tioga.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:24:42 -0800 Message-ID: <25713.851131482@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As 1997 gets ready to shove off and FreeBSD gets ready to head into another > fresh year, I thought it would be fitting to throw together some midi music > to usher in the new year. With hits like "FreeBSD 1997", "The Gary Palmer", "The Gary Palmer?" Oh dear. The office christmas parties have obviously started, and people are evidently drinking more than ever this year. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 21 01:49:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA03620 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 01:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (ip75-max1-fitch.ziplink.net [199.232.245.75]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA03615 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 01:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA00152; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:45:47 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199612210945.EAA00152@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Oriented Music In-Reply-To: <25713.851131482@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 20, 96 05:24:42 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:45:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: tbalfe@tioga.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > "The Gary Palmer?" > > Oh dear. The office christmas parties have obviously started, and > people are evidently drinking more than ever this year. Please everyone, be careful out there. Don't drink and post. Happy holidays - Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 21 03:42:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA05823 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 03:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (sdev.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA05818 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 03:42:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.6.9) id WAA13177; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:41:47 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:41:47 +1100 From: root@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (Charlie &) To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), tbalfe@tioga.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Oriented Music References: <25713.851131482@time.cdrom.com> <199612210945.EAA00152@hda.hda.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.54 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199612210945.EAA00152@hda.hda.com>; from Peter Dufault on Dec 21, 1996 04:45:46 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Dufault writes: > > "The Gary Palmer?" > > > > Oh dear. The office christmas parties have obviously started, and > > people are evidently drinking more than ever this year. > > Please everyone, be careful out there. Don't drink and post. Or, as they say in C++ programming circles, don't drink and derive. (ok, I'll shut up now. puns aren't my speciality) Happy holidays all. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freefall.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 21 03:53:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA06025 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 03:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from grackle.grondar.za (CwN17BCp7lh/PVqRfEvemZ4ySji+qTcZ@grackle.grondar.za [196.7.18.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA06018 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 03:53:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from grackle.grondar.za (JQHoE/yrHLyiplOScQ2hf+R1iqGlgoq4@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grackle.grondar.za (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA01018; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:52:33 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199612211152.NAA01018@grackle.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: root@sdev.usn.blaze.net.au (Charlie &) cc: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault), jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), tbalfe@tioga.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Oriented Music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:52:31 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Please everyone, be careful out there. Don't drink and post. > > Or, as they say in C++ programming circles, don't drink and derive. Well now that South Africa has cleaned up its act, I feel that I should clue the world into the true reason why we never produced any decent mathematicians. Truth is, South Africa has never been much good at integration. M -- Mark Murray PGP key fingerprint = 80 36 6E 40 83 D6 8A 36 This .sig is umop ap!sdn. BC 06 EA 0E 7A F2 CE CE From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 21 16:49:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA10497 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:49:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA10492 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:49:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id RAA00275; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.ampr.ab.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA08405; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:48:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:48:54 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@alive.ampr.ab.ca To: John Fieber cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO parit RAM (Was Re: Tyan ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk And still speaking of archives, where can the raw archives be ftped from? On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, John Fieber wrote: > On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Rob Snow wrote: > > > Speaking of archives, any word on when the archives might be back? > > They have been back for a while (several days at least). Some of > the older stuff (1994 vintage) has not been recovered (yet) > though. > > -john > From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 21 17:18:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA11868 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA11853; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:18:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199612220118.RAA11853@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: EDO parit RAM (Was Re: Tyan ...) To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:18:36 -0800 (PST) Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Marc Slemko" at Dec 21, 96 05:48:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marc Slemko wrote: > > And still speaking of archives, where can the raw archives be ftped from? freefall.freebsd.org /home/mail/archive/ jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 21 17:54:51 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA13108 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:54:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA13103 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00515; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:54:37 -0800 (PST) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko), jfieber@indiana.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO parit RAM (Was Re: Tyan ...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:18:36 PST." <199612220118.RAA11853@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:54:37 -0800 Message-ID: <511.851219677@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Marc Slemko wrote: > > > > And still speaking of archives, where can the raw archives be ftped from? > > freefall.freebsd.org > /home/mail/archive/ Not as anonymous ftp.. :-) We should probably get them back online soon. I think there's more than enough disk space on wcarchive; about 175MB since I just house-cleaned the SNAP (which is superceded by 2.2-ALPHA) and 2.1.5-RELEASE trees. I wonder what the best way of getting them across is going to be though... rsync? Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 21 19:23:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA15898 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:23:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA15893 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA21892; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:22:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612220322.TAA21892@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko), jfieber@indiana.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO parit RAM (Was Re: Tyan ...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:54:37 PST." <511.851219677@time.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:22:24 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Marc Slemko wrote: >> > >> > And still speaking of archives, where can the raw archives be ftped from? >> >> freefall.freebsd.org >> /home/mail/archive/ > >Not as anonymous ftp.. :-) We should probably get them back online >soon. I think there's more than enough disk space on wcarchive; about >175MB since I just house-cleaned the SNAP (which is superceded by >2.2-ALPHA) and 2.1.5-RELEASE trees. I wonder what the best way of >getting them across is going to be though... rsync? I sure hate the ONE-BIG-FILE archive format. I find it almost entirely useless. If we were to change it to a one-per-file scheme, it wouldn't be such a big effort to keep the stuff in sync (hint: I very much dislike copying several giant multi-megabyte files over to wcarchive continuously). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Dec 21 21:05:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA19257 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA19251 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA12874; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:05:34 -0800 (PST) To: dg@root.com cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko), jfieber@indiana.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO parit RAM (Was Re: Tyan ...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:22:24 PST." <199612220322.TAA21892@root.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:05:34 -0800 Message-ID: <12870.851231134@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > useless. If we were to change it to a one-per-file scheme, it wouldn't be > such a big effort to keep the stuff in sync (hint: I very much dislike > copying several giant multi-megabyte files over to wcarchive continuously). Don't worry, I wasn't contemplating the latter scenario under any circumstances. That's why I asked the question in terms of what tool would be used and suggested rsync as the first candidate - no sensible protocol does whole-file transfers, it figures out that there was an append operation and only sends the new stuff. CVSup is another candidate in this category. However, though it's technically possible to sync the One Big File archives to wcarchive in a reasonably non-crazed way, I still agree with David that the storage format is, at best, highly unwieldy and non-conducive to indexing. Jordan