From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 02:22:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA19406 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from westhill.cdrom.com (westhill.cdrom.com [192.216.223.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA19398 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:22:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by westhill.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA15439 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:22:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: westhill.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: stable@freebsd.org From: Gary Palmer Subject: /etc/sysconfig & friends Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:22:01 -0800 Message-ID: <15437.822910921@westhill.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone object if I take the mrouted, lpd & linux LKM changes into the 2.1 branch? Gary From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 08:45:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12756 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from biblioteca.campus.unal.edu.co ([200.21.26.198]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA12716 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:45:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by biblioteca.campus.unal.edu.co (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22755; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:41:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:41:02 -0500 (EST) From: Pedro Giffuni To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Please include Mail Handler Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-938140986-2078917053-822933662=:11404" Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---938140986-2078917053-822933662=:11404 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I want to propose the inclusion of the MH pacakage with the main FreeBSD distribution. MH is a public domain package developed by the RAND corporation that permits mail management with a shell. I knew of it because it is necesary for using XMH, and several operating systems like AIX include it. The latest version I know, mh-6.8.tar.gz, also includes support for POP2-POP3 and IMAPD (if NNTP is present it can also be handled). The original distribution is kept by UCLA, but I found it ported for BSD-4.4 lite. I am sending an attached file I archied. regards, Pedro Universidad Nacional de Colombia ---938140986-2078917053-822933662=:11404 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=where Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: DQpIb3N0IG1pbm5pZS5jcy5hZGZhLm96LmF1DQoNCiAgICBMb2NhdGlvbjog L0JTRC80LjRCU0QtTGl0ZS80LjRCU0QtTGl0ZS91c3IvY29udHJpYg0KICAg ICAgRElSRUNUT1JZIGRyd3hyLXhyLXggICAgICAgIDUxMiAgTWF5IDMwIDE5 OTQgIG1oLTYuOA0KDQpIb3N0IGZ0cC5tcy5tZmYuY3VuaS5jeg0KDQogICAg TG9jYXRpb246IC9NSVJST1JTL2Z0cC5jZHJvbS5jb20vcHViL2JzZC1zb3Vy Y2VzLzQuNEJTRC1MaXRlL3Vzci9jb250cmliDQogICAgICBESVJFQ1RPUlkg ZHJ3eHJ3eHJ3eCAgICAgICAyMDQ4ICBNYXIgMjEgMTk5NCAgbWgtNi44DQog ICAgTG9jYXRpb246IC9PUy80LjRCU0QtTGl0ZS80LjRCU0QtTGl0ZS91c3Iv Y29udHJpYg0KICAgICAgRElSRUNUT1JZIGRyd3hyd3hyd3ggICAgICAgMjA0 OCAgTWFyIDIxIDE5OTQgIG1oLTYuOA0KDQpIb3N0IGZ0cC51bmktdHJpZXIu ZGUNCg0KICAgIExvY2F0aW9uOiAvcHViL3VuaXgvc3lzdGVtcy9CU0QtNC40 bGl0ZS80LjRCU0QtTGl0ZS91c3IvY29udHJpYg0KICAgICAgRElSRUNUT1JZ IGRyd3hyLXhyLXggICAgICAgIDUxMiAgTWF5IDE2IDE5OTUgIG1oLTYuOA0K DQpIb3N0IGZ0cC5pc2kuZWR1DQoNCiAgICBMb2NhdGlvbjogL3B1Yi92bWgN CiAgICAgIERJUkVDVE9SWSBkcnd4ci14ci14ICAgICAgICA1MTIgIEp1biAg MiAxOTkzICBtaC02LjgNCg0KSG9zdCBmdHAuY3Mub3JzdC5lZHUNCg0KICAg IExvY2F0aW9uOiAvc29mdHdhcmUvb3Bfc3lzLzQuNC1MaXRlLzQuNEJTRC1M aXRlL3Vzci9jb250cmliDQogICAgICBESVJFQ1RPUlkgZHJ3eHJ3eHIteCAg ICAgICAgNTEyICBBdWcgIDggMTk5NCAgbWgtNi44DQoNCkhvc3QgZnRwLm1h dGgub3JzdC5lZHUNCg0KICAgIExvY2F0aW9uOiAvMzg2QlNELzAuMS1wb3J0 cw0KICAgICAgRElSRUNUT1JZIGRyd3hyLXhyLXggICAgICAgIDUxMiAgRmVi IDE0IDE5OTMgIG1oLTYuOA0KDQpIb3N0IGZ0cC5tZWlqaS5hYy5qcA0KDQog ICAgTG9jYXRpb246IC9taXJyb3IvLjQvTmV0QlNEL05ldEJTRC1jdXJyZW50 L290aGVyc3JjDQogICAgICBESVJFQ1RPUlkgZHJ3eHIteHIteCAgICAgICAg NTEyICBEZWMgMjEgMTk5MyAgbWgtNi44DQoNCkhvc3QgbmFkaWEuaWNzLmVz Lm9zYWthLXUuYWMuanANCg0KICAgIExvY2F0aW9uOiAvZDAvMzg2QlNELzAu MS1wb3J0cw0KICAgICAgRElSRUNUT1JZIGRyd3hyd3hyLXggICAgICAgIDUx MiAgTm92IDI4IDE5OTMgIG1oLTYuOA0KDQpIb3N0IGZ0cC5paWouYWQuanAN Cg0KICAgIExvY2F0aW9uOiAvcHViLzM4NmJzZC8wLjEtcG9ydHMNCiAgICAg IERJUkVDVE9SWSBkcnd4ci14ci14ICAgICAgICA1MTIgIE5vdiAyNiAxOTkz ICBtaC02LjgNCg0KSG9zdCBmdHAuYXN0ZWMuY28uanANCg0KICAgIExvY2F0 aW9uOiAvcHViL21haWwNCiAgICAgIERJUkVDVE9SWSBkcnd4cnd4ci14ICAg ICAgICA1MTIgIE1hciAyNCAxOTk0ICBtaC02LjgNCg0KSG9zdCBmdHAuc3Jh LmNvLmpwDQoNCiAgICBMb2NhdGlvbjogL3B1Yi9vcy80LjRCU0QtTGl0ZS9l eHRyYWN0ZWQvNC40QlNELUxpdGUvdXNyL2NvbnRyaWINCiAgICAgIERJUkVD VE9SWSBkcnd4ci14ci14ICAgICAgICA1MTIgIE1hciAyMiAxOTk0ICBtaC02 LjgNCg0KSG9zdCBmdHAubmN1LmVkdS50dw0KDQogICAgTG9jYXRpb246IC9P Uy9CU0QtU291cmNlcy80LjRCU0QtTGl0ZS91c3IvY29udHJpYg0KICAgICAg RElSRUNUT1JZIGRyd3hyLXhyLXggICAgICAgIDUxMiAgTWFyIDIyIDE5OTQg IG1oLTYuOA0KDQpIb3N0IHNvZnR1MS5uY3UuZWR1LnR3DQoNCiAgICBMb2Nh dGlvbjogL3B1Yi8zODZCU0QvMC4xLXBvcnRzDQogICAgICBESVJFQ1RPUlkg ZHJ3eHIteHIteCAgICAgICAgNTEyICBNYXkgMTEgMTk5MyAgbWgtNi44DQog ICAgTG9jYXRpb246IC9wdWIvMzg2QlNELzM4NmJzZC0wLjEvdW5vZmZpY2lh bC9wb3J0cw0KICAgICAgRElSRUNUT1JZIGRyd3hyLXhyLXggICAgICAgIDUx MiAgTWF5ICA1IDE5OTMgIG1oLTYuOA0KDQpIb3N0IHNjaXRzYy53bHYuYWMu dWsNCg0KICAgIExvY2F0aW9uOiAvcHViL2luZm9tYWdpYzIvc291cmNlLmNv ZGUuY2Ryb20uT2N0OTQvNC40QlNELUxpdGUvdXNyL2NvbnRyaWINCiAgICAg IERJUkVDVE9SWSBkcnd4ci14ci14ICAgICAgICA1MTIgIE9jdCAzMSAwODoy OSAgbWgtNi44DQo= ---938140986-2078917053-822933662=:11404-- From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 10:24:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA19757 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:24:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19737 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA08463; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:26:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:26:17 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601291826.LAA08463@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Pedro Giffuni Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Please include Mail Handler In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I want to propose the inclusion of the MH pacakage with the main > FreeBSD distribution. Noooooo........ :) > MH is a public domain package developed by the RAND corporation that > permits mail management with a shell. I knew of it because it is > necesary for using XMH, and several operating systems like AIX include it. This particular topic has been discussed to death in the past, and the conclusion was that everyone has a pet mail program they prefer, so by only distributing the most basic mail program (mail), we allow folks to read/write email on the base system. However, we also supply ports to most of the more popular mailers like elm, mh, and pine. They are easily installed, and don't have to be part of the base system. It's as simply as grab the mh package and running pkg_install on it to have it part of your system. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 10:24:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA19817 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from insecurity.shockwave.com (insecurity.shockwave.com [171.69.60.233]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19806 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pst@localhost) by insecurity.shockwave.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA10791; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:25:22 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:25:22 -0800 From: Paul Traina Message-Id: <199601291825.KAA10791@insecurity.shockwave.com> To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, pgiffuni@biblioteca.campus.unal.edu.co Subject: Re: Please include Mail Handler Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk MH is already available as a port to FreeBSD, just go to /usr/ports/mail/mh and type make install. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 11:04:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA22137 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:04:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA22128 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:04:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15155(14)>; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:03:24 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:03:15 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Pedro Giffuni cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please include Mail Handler In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:41:02 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:03:12 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Jan29.110315pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message you write: >I want to propose the inclusion of the MH pacakage with the main >FreeBSD distribution. MH-6.8.3 is included with FreeBSD, in the ports/packages collection. Bill From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 11:09:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA22571 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA22523 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:09:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03407; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:08:21 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199601291908.VAA03407@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Pedro Giffuni cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Please include Mail Handler Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:08:20 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Pedro Giffuni wrote: > I want to propose the inclusion of the MH pacakage with the main > FreeBSD distribution. Hmm.. while the idea has merits, you will have some problems convincing folks that this should be _mainstream_ code. MH is, however, a port. Look at /usr/ports/mail/mh (if you have the ports directory), or look at the ports collection. We include mh-6.8.3 as a standard port for FreeBSD (I know, because I am the maintainer). M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 14:36:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16283 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:36:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA16216 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id XAA12111; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:15:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01190; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:05:33 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:05:31 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Pedro Giffuni cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Please include Mail Handler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi Pedro ! On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > Hi, > I want to propose the inclusion of the MH pacakage with the main > FreeBSD distribution. > [...] It's already in the ports collection... See the fine FreeBSD manual for more informations (-> http://www.freebsd.org/). You might also find it in /usr/share/doc/handbook on your local disk. BTW: noone would like to increase the main FreeBSD source tree for such a mail program. It already lasts long enough to do a make world. And ... everybody has his 'pet toy'. Who should deceide, what to include and what not ? Where should this end ? In a 600MB source tree and nobody has time or room enough to run a make world ?! ;-) Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 15:26:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21231 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA21162 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA11949; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:07:09 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601292337.KAA11949@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Please include Mail Handler To: pgiffuni@biblioteca.campus.unal.edu.co (Pedro Giffuni) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:07:08 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Pedro Giffuni" at Jan 29, 96 11:41:02 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Pedro Giffuni stands accused of saying: > Hi, > I want to propose the inclusion of the MH pacakage with the main > FreeBSD distribution. It already is : /usr/ports/mail/mh. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 15:39:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA22619 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA22603 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:39:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA23921 ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:38:52 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id AAA18549 ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:38:44 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id AAA10167; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:30:46 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199601292330.AAA10167@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Please include Mail Handler To: pgiffuni@biblioteca.campus.unal.edu.co (Pedro Giffuni) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:30:46 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Pedro Giffuni" at "Jan 29, 96 11:41:02 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1586 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL3 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Pedro Giffuni said: > MH is a public domain package developed by the RAND corporation that > permits mail management with a shell. I knew of it because it is > necesary for using XMH, and several operating systems like AIX include it. I object strongly against this. I can't stand MH (and I'm sure others can't stand Elm or PINE) so it is really a matter of personal preference. Including it in the main base means more code to maintain and force people to have it. The argument can be used for any package other than Mail so its why we don't have one of them in the base code. > The latest version I know, mh-6.8.tar.gz, also includes support for > POP2-POP3 and IMAPD (if NNTP is present it can also be handled). The latest is 6.8.3 and have been in ports for a long time. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Jan 14 20:23:45 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jan 29 17:04:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA00224 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00127 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA10450; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:01:42 -0800 To: Pedro Giffuni cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Please include Mail Handler In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:41:02 EST." Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:01:42 -0800 Message-ID: <10445.822963702@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I want to propose the inclusion of the MH pacakage with the main > FreeBSD distribution. The MH program is scheduled for incorporation into the mainline just 3 days after the release of FreeBSD version 301.10.1, scheduled for August 3rd, 2065. :-) In other words, I doubt that we'll see this happen in our lifetimes. I think it does just fine as a port, yes? Why change it? Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jan 31 03:35:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA19203 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA19184 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id DAA07361; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:34:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:34:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: stable@freebsd.org CC: ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu Subject: New version of ccd driver available From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (Note crosspost: followups set to `stable') A new version of the ccd driver is now available from: ftp://forgery.cs.berkeley.edu/pub/ccd-960131.tar.gz Attached below is the README file. It now includes mirroring support, so if you have gobs of disk space and need more reliability than straight striping, please try it! Satoshi ------- $Id: ccd.README,v 1.1 1996/01/31 10:39:54 asami Exp $ ********************************************************** * The FreeBSD ccd driver (pre-alpha) * * for 2.1.0-RELEASE users * * by Satoshi Asami * * and Nisha Talagala * * version of 96/01/31 * ********************************************************** (0) Changes from previous version (Jan/14) . There is mirroring support . ccdcontrol is renamed ccdconfig (back to original NetBSD name) . ccdconfig is now in /sbin (so you can call it from rc -- a patch to rc is also included) (1) Introduction This is a port of NetBSD's ccd (concatenated disk) driver. It is not a complete work in any way, but seems to be working fairly ok here, so we decided to make it available so that people can test it and even fix some bugs. :) (2) Warning As the title above says, this is pre-alpha software and is therefore VERY GREEN. You should not expect this to work. It may eat your system disk for lunch. It may even fry your microwave in the process. Make sure you have backed up all your data and locked your children in the basement before you attempt to try this. (3) What it does In case you don't know what it is, ccd is a disk array driver. You can combine several disk partitions into one "virtual disk". Then you can partition it or use the whole thing or add some pepper and salt or whatever you want. (4) What it does not There is no parity support yet. That's why its name doesn't resemble RAID in any form. However, there is mirroring available starting from the Jan/31 version. (4a) Cool, how do I use mirroring? Add CCDF_MIRROR to the list of flags (third field in /etc/ccd.conf), and your disk space will magically shrink into half. The writes go to all disks, while the reads will all come from the first n/2 disks. If one of the disk goes "poof", you can reconfigure the ccd to use only half the disks without mirroring. That should keep your users happy until you get the chance to put in the replacement disk. When the new disk is installed, use the ccd recovery program called `dd' (which mysteriously made its way into the release even before we put out an alpha version of ccd), e.g., to copy sd1g to sd4g, dd if=/dev/sd1g of=/dev/sd4g bs=1048576 (5) How to compile Note this package is for FreeBSD-2.1.0R. It probably won't work right away for -stable or -current. We are planning to upgrade our machines soon, and will release snapshots for -current as well. Ok, first you need to unpack the distribution. It contains the following files: ccd.README (this file) ccd.PLIST ccd.patch sys/ccd/ccd.4 sys/ccd/ccd.c sys/sys/ccdvar.h sbin/ccdconfig/Makefile sbin/ccdconfig/ccdconfig.8 sbin/ccdconfig/ccdconfig.c sbin/ccdconfig/pathnames.h You can unpack them in your /usr/src directory. After that, apply the ccd.patch. It makes several changes to the header files and such, including one totally ridiculous change to sys/disk.h that was done by a certain FreeBSD hacker who owns a hamster with one black eye and one red eye. (Someone please tell me how to fix it properly.) You can use the following command to apply the patch: patch -p < ccd.patch (On a separate line for your triple-clicking pleasure.) There is a patch to rc in there, so take a look at your /etc/rc and install the new one. If you have changed your /etc/rc, either cut & paste the relevant lines or take out the hunk pertaining rc and apply it to your /etc/rc. Then add the following to your kernel configuration file: device ccd0 at isa? device ccd1 at isa? device ccd2 at isa? device ccd3 at isa? (You can have as many of them as you want, or fewer than four, of course.) We recommend you to add "options DDB" too. This will make the kernel go into a debugger in case of a panic. That will make it easier for you to send us a complete bug report. (Note this will disable auto-rebooting after a panic, so don't do this on a machine that has to run unattended.) (6) How to use ccd Wait, you need to compile ccdconfig too! Go in there, do "make depend all install". If install complains about missing directories and such, make sure you have the correct Makefile.inc in the parent (/usr/src/sbin) directory. If you don't have one (like, you don't have the usr.sbin source tree), just editing the ccdconfig Makefile and adding "BINDIR=/sbin" and "NOSHARED=YES" by hand should do. Also, you will need to create the device files. There is a patch to MAKEDEV included in ccd.patch, so go into etc/etc.i386 and install the new MAKEDEV into /dev. Then you can, say, "cd /dev; sh MAKEDEV ccd0" to create the appropriate device files for your first ccd devices, etc. Now, go and read the man pages. ccdconfig.8 should be installed by now; ccd.4 is still sitting in the source directory so go read it there. (Try "nroff -man ccd.4 | less -s".) Assuming you've read them, here is an example, if you have four partitions (sd1g, sd2g, sd3g, sd4g) you want to combine into one: echo "ccd0 16 none /dev/sd1g /dev/sd2g /dev/sd3g /dev/sd4g" > /etc/ccd.conf ccdconfig -Cv (to configure; you'll see a message here) disklabel ccd0 (just to make sure there is a valid disklabel) newfs /dev/rccd0c mount /dev/ccd0c /mnt (play with /mnt) umount /mnt ccdconfig -U (to unconfigure) (7) What's the second field in /etc/ccd.conf? That's the "interleave size". Basically, the ccd driver will write this many sectors (usually 512 bytes) to one disk before it moves to the next disk. As a special case, a zero here means no interleave, i.e., to concatenate disks serially. We have found that in FFS, a value of 16 usually optimizes read performance, while the write peaks with a much larger value (like 512). This probably has to do with cluster_write() thinking it's writing to a single disk when it's actually not. This is one of the things we are planning to fix. (8) Are there any caveats? Oh sure. One of them is "don't use a partition that starts at a beginning of the slice". So please leave some space at the beginning of the slice in the partitions you are combining (sd[1-4]g in the above example). Of course, if someone can figure out why and fix it, that will be great. (9) My disk is totally hosed. It's all your fault! See (2). (10) Anything I can help? Well, any bug fix is welcome. In addition to the stuff mentioned above, we are aware of at least the following: a. Since I didn't know how to properly register a pseudo-device, this baby thinks it's a ISA device (look at kern_devconf and isa_driver and such in ccd.c). It should be specified like "pseudo-device ccd 4" in the kernel configuration file (like the manual says). b. I'm not exactly sure what the "geometry" of this pseudo-disk means. If it doesn't matter, it's ok; if newfs (for instance) cares, we should give it a better set of default values. (11) Where should I send bug reports/fixes? Please send them to ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu. This will reach the two primary developers (Satoshi and Nisha), as well as other interested parties. If you want to be added to this list, please send mail to Satoshi (asami@cs.berkeley.edu). (12) Where do I get new versions? They will be made available as ftp://forgery.cs.berkeley.edu/pub/ccd-.tar.gz so check this site regularly. (13) I'm tired Yeah, I'm tired too. Well go to sleep now then, and try it tomorrow! Good night! Satoshi From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jan 31 08:52:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15969 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:52:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15961 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:52:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA18846; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:53:09 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA24433; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:03:51 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199601311703.LAA24433@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: stable@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:34:52 PST." <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:03:51 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Satoshi, this is way cool. > > a. Since I didn't know how to properly register a pseudo-device, this > baby thinks it's a ISA device (look at kern_devconf and isa_driver > and such in ccd.c). It should be specified like "pseudo-device > ccd 4" in the kernel configuration file (like the manual says). > I believe that you must have something like: #include PSEUDO_SET(ccdattach, ccd); in the source. then of course remove the isa_* structures and probably ccdprobe(). I think you can remove the `device-driver' clause from sys/conf/files too. It uses a linker-set to attach the pseudo devices even before the isa/pci/eisa bus stuff. At least thats what if_tun, if_ppp, ... appear to do. all of this is from memory, so your mileage may vary. This probably isn't too high priority for you now but hope it helps. > > Satoshi > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jan 31 13:13:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11316 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:13:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU (tick.ssec.wisc.edu [144.92.108.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11296 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id PAA19729 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:12:38 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Glowacki Message-Id: <199601312112.PAA19729@tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: 2.1.0025 doesn't compile? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:12:31 -0600 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I don't usually rebuild after every CTM update, so I didn't catch this right away, but a couple of updates appear to have semi-broken -stable. One update deleted libexec/Makefile (I *think* it was libexec ... don't have access to my system right now) but didn't replace it with anything and another update deleted lkm/procfs but left a reference to it in lkm/Makefile Copying libexec/Makefile from /usr/2.1.0-RELEASE/libexec and editing out the "procfs" reference in lkm/Makefile got me through the build but it'd be nice if this was fixed correctly... [The 2.1.0026 ctm patch looks like it's just man page patches, and thus offers no relief...] From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jan 31 15:51:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26031 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26021 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:51:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA13294; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:50:58 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:51:01 -0600 To: Dave Glowacki From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: 2.1.0025 doesn't compile? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I don't usually rebuild after every CTM update, so I didn't catch this right >away, but a couple of updates appear to have semi-broken -stable. > >One update deleted libexec/Makefile (I *think* it was libexec ... don't have >access to my system right now) but didn't replace it with anything and >another update deleted lkm/procfs but left a reference to it in lkm/Makefile The file disappeared from my cvs tree on Jan22. This tree is maintained by sup from sup2.freebsd.org. I'm re-supping that entire subtree. Tomorrow's update should bring things back if sup2 correct. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jan 31 21:50:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25387 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25285 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:49:14 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA13802; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:47:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010547.VAA13802@dtr.com> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:47:45 +73600 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jan 31, 96 03:34:52 am Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > . There is mirroring support Cool. I've been wanting this for some time. In fact, I'm going to pick up a second SCSI controller for the sole purpose of testing the ccd stuff. I've got a wide variety of SCSI disks to try it out with. I'll do my damndest to break it and report back to you. From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jan 31 23:27:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01382 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01324 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:25:41 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA00414; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:25:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010725.XAA00414@dtr.com> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:25:10 +73600 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jan 31, 96 03:34:52 am Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > . ccdconfig is now in /sbin (so you can call it from rc -- a patch to > rc is also included) I believe that it also should be statically linked so that it'll actually work before ld.so is available - the current Makefile options don't do this. Or is there something that I'm not seeing here? From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 00:05:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04489 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04421 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id KAA23780 for stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:03:49 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id KAA21283 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:00:11 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id KAA29987 for stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:00:09 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199602010800.KAA29987@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: What I'd like to see brought to -stable To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:00:09 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello people, as a -stable SNAP is prognosed, I've found myself brave enough to post my personal wishlist of what I'd like to see included into it. Oh yes, the team is doing a great work of bringing kernel changes and bugfixes into it, but there are other areas as well. Maybe some kind soul will take the following into account, too? So here it is: 1. (kernel) A fix for "system binds" problem (IDE system with X11 "goes asleep" periodically for random periods of time). 2. "phk malloc" by Paul Henning Kampf. It's one of the best performance improvements I've seen, why recompile approx. entire world after dropping it into an installed system? And, taken from -current, it works without a glitch -- only _times_ faster :) 3. "STARTUP_SETLOCALE hack" removal and a couple of localization changes done by Andrew Chernov throughout the userland utilities. 4. A new groff (1.10). It's way nice to have direct LaserJet printing! 5. Recent PPP improvements. What else? That's all for now, 2.1-R is a GREAT OS, I'm very happy with it! Thanks for your attention! -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 00:43:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA06994 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:43:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06946 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id AAA02140; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:40:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:40:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602010840.AAA02140@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: bmk@dtr.com CC: stable@FreeBSD.org, ccd@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU In-reply-to: <199602010725.XAA00414@dtr.com> (bmk@dtr.com) Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * I believe that it also should be statically linked so that it'll actually * work before ld.so is available - the current Makefile options don't do this. * * Or is there something that I'm not seeing here? If you have the source in /usr/src/sbin/ccdconfig, it will read "Makefile.inc" from the parent directory and get the static option there. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 00:43:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA07036 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:43:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06980 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:42:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id AAA02142; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:40:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:40:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602010840.AAA02142@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: bmk@dtr.com CC: stable@FreeBSD.org, ccd@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU In-reply-to: <199602010547.VAA13802@dtr.com> (bmk@dtr.com) Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * In fact, I'm going to pick up a second SCSI controller for the sole * purpose of testing the ccd stuff. I've got a wide variety of SCSI disks * to try it out with. * * I'll do my damndest to break it and report back to you. Glad to hear that. Hope you can break it soon. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 01:35:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA10608 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:35:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA10591 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA00323; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:33:36 -0800 (PST) To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What I'd like to see brought to -stable In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 10:00:09 +0200." <199602010800.KAA29987@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 01:33:36 -0800 Message-ID: <321.823167216@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1. (kernel) A fix for "system binds" problem (IDE system with X11 > "goes asleep" periodically for random periods of time). We'll have to see how much of John's other changes this requires. It could turn out to be a little too "expensive" for -stable, so don't get your hopes up is all! :-) > 2. "phk malloc" by Paul Henning Kampf. It's one of the best performance > improvements I've seen, why recompile approx. entire world after > dropping it into an installed system? And, taken from -current, > it works without a glitch -- only _times_ faster :) Have all the wailing applications been cleaned up? Last I heard, there was still some userland stuff complaining about malloc conditions. I'd kinda like to see all of those found and fixed before declaring this malloc ready for -stable. > 4. A new groff (1.10). It's way nice to have direct LaserJet printing! Hmmm. Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 02:52:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA16729 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA16679 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA01444; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:50:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199602011050.CAA01444@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What I'd like to see brought to -stable In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 10:00:09 +0200." <199602010800.KAA29987@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 02:50:52 -0800 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >1. (kernel) A fix for "system binds" problem (IDE system with X11 > "goes asleep" periodically for random periods of time). I think this is workable. The problem is apparantly in the object clean code, and I think the changes can be retrofitted. >2. "phk malloc" by Paul Henning Kampf. It's one of the best performance > improvements I've seen, why recompile approx. entire world after > dropping it into an installed system? And, taken from -current, > it works without a glitch -- only _times_ faster :) No, sorry, this won't be in the release. The main problem is that phk's malloc does a better job recycling memory and this exposes bugs in applications. Since 2.1-stable is supposed to be "stable", I don't want to rock the boat - the result would only be the appearance that 2.1-stable was far less than stable even though the real problem is in the apps. Since "apps" also includes our *own* /usr/src, this would look very bad. There's also a question as to whether all of the bugs in phkmalloc have been worked out. A fairly serious bug was found just a few weeks ago. >3. "STARTUP_SETLOCALE hack" removal and a couple of localization > changes done by Andrew Chernov throughout the userland > utilities. I don't have a problem with this as long as Andrey is dedicated to managing the changes. I'm not going to touch this myself, however. >4. A new groff (1.10). It's way nice to have direct LaserJet printing! I think this would be okay if someone was dedicated to doing the upgrade. Like #3, I won't be doing this myself. >5. Recent PPP improvements. Yes, definately. ...and lots of other fixes that haven't been mentioned. We'll be going through all the changes soon to find other candidates. -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 06:28:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA29401 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA29365 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id PAA21857 for stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:28:15 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id NAA10531 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:56:14 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id NAA10283; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:56:13 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199602011156.NAA10283@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: What I'd like to see brought to -stable To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:56:13 +0200 (EET) Cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <321.823167216@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 1, 96 01:33:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk # > 1. (kernel) A fix for "system binds" problem (IDE system with X11 # > "goes asleep" periodically for random periods of time). # # We'll have to see how much of John's other changes this requires. It # could turn out to be a little too "expensive" for -stable, so don't # get your hopes up is all! :-) Oh yes, of course... I'm not shouting from the soap-box "DO IT!", but maybe, some day, occasionally... ;) That _is_ a critical disaster, which negates people's impressions on FreeBSD quality, nothin more. # > 2. "phk malloc" by Paul Henning Kampf. It's one of the best performance # # Have all the wailing applications been cleaned up? Last I heard, # there was still some userland stuff complaining about malloc # conditions. I'd kinda like to see all of those found and fixed before # declaring this malloc ready for -stable. I think that it will be wise to add it to -stable-SNAP and all occurences of weird apps will be found in a week by the happy -stable users, me among them. ;-) There are 0 complaints on phk malloc _itself_, aren't they? It _will_ improve the overall OS performance -- this is for sure, yeah? And better have fixed apps for 2.1.5 (or will it be 2.1-Gold?) than silently broken ones? That's my arguments. # > 4. A new groff (1.10). It's way nice to have direct LaserJet printing! # # Hmmm. Gm. Yes, it's probably too specific for me. I already dropped groff stolen from -current to /usr/src and reinstalled it; just Ok, so please forget this. Everyone who wants it will go this way, too. # # Jordan # -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 06:28:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA29425 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA29414 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:28:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id PAA21532 for stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:21:08 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id OAA12885 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:52:55 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id OAA11080; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:52:54 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199602011252.OAA11080@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: What I'd like to see brought to -stable To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:52:53 +0200 (EET) Cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602011050.CAA01444@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Feb 1, 96 02:50:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello David, # >1. (kernel) A fix for "system binds" problem (IDE system with X11 # > "goes asleep" periodically for random periods of time). # # I think this is workable. The problem is apparantly in the object clean # code, and I think the changes can be retrofitted. HURRAAAAY!!!! :-) # >2. "phk malloc" by Paul Henning Kampf. It's one of the best performance # > improvements I've seen, why recompile approx. entire world after # > dropping it into an installed system? And, taken from -current, # > it works without a glitch -- only _times_ faster :) # # No, sorry, this won't be in the release. The main problem is that phk's # malloc does a better job recycling memory and this exposes bugs in # applications. Since 2.1-stable is supposed to be "stable", I don't want to # rock the boat - the result would only be the appearance that 2.1-stable was # far less than stable even though the real problem is in the apps. Since "apps" # also includes our *own* /usr/src, this would look very bad. I still think that this approach is questionable, as mentioned in my previous message. Of course, the last decision is yours, noone will ever try to blame you for the fact that you refused to open a tightly packed can of worms :-) But. Another view. The date of next release is upcoming slowly, but there _is_ some time left for testing. FreeBSD has it's user base splitted... not even in two, but in three parts -- stock RELEASE users, -stable users, -current developers. Three grades, with the quantity of potential testers decreasing, and people's readyness to risk increases from left to right. :-) New malloc() is of _much_ less risk to use than, for example, brand new UNIX pipes. The same with userland utils. Why not increase the number of testers for this "easy" stuff? And who forbids you, in case things are going wrong in -stable snapshots (they're experimental, anyway), replace phk malloc back with todays one? (So it will be used for _debugging_ -stable, first of all, and _not_ for -RELEASE, only in case everything is Ok). Some of phk-malloc-inspired changes are already in -current, btw. Just a thought. As for me myself, I'll use libc upgraded with phkmalloc, and probably periodically report bugs to -stable :-)) # There's also a # question as to whether all of the bugs in phkmalloc have been worked out. A # fairly serious bug was found just a few weeks ago. Considering the speed of FreeBSD development, few weeks really means "long ago"... ;-) # >3. "STARTUP_SETLOCALE hack" removal and a couple of localization # > changes done by Andrew Chernov throughout the userland # > utilities. # # I don't have a problem with this as long as Andrey is dedicated to managing # the changes. I'm not going to touch this myself, however. Ok, I'll ask Andrew directly about this. # >5. Recent PPP improvements. # # Yes, definately. BRAVO!!! # ...and lots of other fixes that haven't been mentioned. We'll be going # through all the changes soon to find other candidates. ... that's why I was so brave to ask. Tomorrow might be too late. :-) # -DG # # David Greenman # Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 06:48:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA00567 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA00273 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id OAA15272; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:23:39 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id OAA29519; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:22:02 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id NAA00700; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:58:34 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602011258.NAA00700@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: bmk@dtr.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:58:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199602010725.XAA00414@dtr.com> from "bmk@dtr.com" at Jan 31, 96 11:25:10 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As bmk@dtr.com wrote: ccdconfig > I believe that it also should be statically linked > Or is there something that I'm not seeing here? Binaries built from /usr/src/sbin are automagically linked static, this is done via the parent's Makefile.inc. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 09:08:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10516 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:08:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10501 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16562; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:03:04 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:03:06 -0600 To: "Andrew V. Stesin" From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: What I'd like to see brought to -stable Cc: stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Andrew V. Stesin" writes: ># > 2. "phk malloc" by Paul Henning Kampf. It's one of the best performance ># ># Have all the wailing applications been cleaned up? Last I heard, ># there was still some userland stuff complaining about malloc ># conditions. I'd kinda like to see all of those found and fixed before ># declaring this malloc ready for -stable. > > I think that it will be wise to add it to -stable-SNAP > and all occurences of weird apps will be found in a week by > the happy -stable users, me among them. ;-) IMHO, including it at this time would create some VERY UNHAPPY -stable users. If we even suspect that there is a problem, we MUST check it out in -current first. > And better have fixed apps for 2.1.5 (or will it be 2.1-Gold?) > than silently broken ones? That's my arguments. Why should it skip to 2.1.5? 2.1.1 is a very nice number. ># > 4. A new groff (1.10). It's way nice to have direct LaserJet printing! ># ># Hmmm. > > Gm. Yes, it's probably too specific for me. I already > dropped groff stolen from -current to /usr/src and reinstalled it; > just Ok, so please forget this. Everyone who wants it > will go this way, too. This is just what YOU should do to test things out. Start with -stable and then add the thing you wish to test from -current. If it works well, it can become a candidate for inclusion in -stable. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 10:00:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14188 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:00:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14182 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA20256; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:49:23 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:49:23 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602011749.KAA20256@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Andrew V. Stesin" Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What I'd like to see brought to -stable In-Reply-To: <199602010800.KAA29987@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> References: <199602010800.KAA29987@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > as a -stable SNAP is prognosed, I've found myself brave enough > to post my personal wishlist of what I'd like to see included > into it. Oh yes, the team is doing a great work of bringing > kernel changes and bugfixes into it, but there are other > areas as well. Maybe some kind soul will take the following > into account, too? So here it is: > > 1. (kernel) A fix for "system binds" problem (IDE system with X11 > "goes asleep" periodically for random periods of time). I'm not sure this can be fixed in software w/out slowing down the rest of the system, but John would be able to asnwer more. > 2. "phk malloc" by Paul Henning Kampf. It's one of the best performance > improvements I've seen, why recompile approx. entire world after > dropping it into an installed system? And, taken from -current, > it works without a glitch -- only _times_ faster :) Alot of changes that went to other parts of the system would have to go in, and I don't think anyone wants to go all over the system to find them. > 3. "STARTUP_SETLOCALE hack" removal and a couple of localization > changes done by Andrew Chernov throughout the userland > utilities. Same as #2. > 4. A new groff (1.10). It's way nice to have direct LaserJet printing! Hmm, are you willing to do the work so that one of us can bring it in. :) > 5. Recent PPP improvements. I'm pretty sure Peter's bringing in the pppd stuff, and I'm trying to get Doug to bring in the ppp stuff. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 10:03:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14303 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14245 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:01:37 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA02004; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:52:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199602011752.JAA02004@dtr.com> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:52:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: bmk@dtr.com, stable@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199602011258.NAA00700@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 1, 96 01:58:34 pm Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As bmk@dtr.com wrote: > ccdconfig > > I believe that it also should be statically linked > > Or is there something that I'm not seeing here? > Binaries built from /usr/src/sbin are automagically linked static, this > is done via the parent's Makefile.inc. Oh. Duh. I just built it in sbin/ccdconfig - so that explains why I got a dynamically linked version when I built it. From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 10:11:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14788 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14783 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:10:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA20364; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:08:20 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:08:20 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602011808.LAA20364@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Andrew V. Stesin" Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What I'd like to see brought to -stable In-Reply-To: <199602011252.OAA11080@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> References: <199602011050.CAA01444@Root.COM> <199602011252.OAA11080@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andrew V. Stesin writes: [ Wishlist for -stable ] > # >2. "phk malloc" by Paul Henning Kampf. It's one of the best performance > # > improvements I've seen, why recompile approx. entire world after > # > dropping it into an installed system? And, taken from -current, > # > it works without a glitch -- only _times_ faster :) > # > # No, sorry, this won't be in the release. The main problem is that phk's > # malloc does a better job recycling memory and this exposes bugs in > # applications. ... > New malloc() is of _much_ less risk to use than, for example, > brand new UNIX pipes. The same with userland utils. Huh? Very few applications use pipes, but *lots* (most) of the applications use malloc, so using simple math the chances of a serious bug occuring because of phk-malloc will be greater than bugs found with pipes. Now, given the amount of time that phk-malloc has had to get beat on in -current it's unlikely that real obvious bugs still exist, but there is still a chance. > And who forbids you, in case things are going wrong in > -stable snapshots (they're experimental, anyway), > replace phk malloc back with todays one? That goes against the grain of -stable. That's what -current is for. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 12:42:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA27764 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA27759 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:42:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03558; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:39:09 -0800 (PST) To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What I'd like to see brought to -stable In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 13:56:13 +0200." <199602011156.NAA10283@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 12:39:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3556.823207149@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > There are 0 complaints on phk malloc _itself_, aren't they? > It _will_ improve the overall OS performance -- this is for sure, yeah? See David's comments. Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 13:02:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA29395 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29357 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id WAA00295 for stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:59:34 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id UAA00443 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:32:54 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id UAA12802; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:32:52 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199602011832.UAA12802@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Bringing locale changes into -stable To: ache@astral.msk.su Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:32:52 +0200 (EET) Cc: stable@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Dear Andrew, wouldn't you mind bringing your recent changes (STARTUP_SETLOCALE hack removal and corresponding additions to userland utils) into -stable branch, too? That will definitely make non-English FreeBSD users a bit happier. Thanks! -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 19:20:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA26822 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:20:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26792 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA00526; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:19:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:19:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: stable@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I just picked up an ASUS PCI SC-200 SCSI controller and tried to install it on a -stable kernel, and it failed to boot. The "BIOS" finds it, and the drives, and FreeBSD seems to find it, or at least, it prints up what I expect it to in the boot phase. It finds it at the right INT/IRQ, and puts it on 'pci0:11', all as I expect. The next line doesn't come, just a panic, and the reboot is so quick, that I can barely focus on the screen to start writing before it reboots (doesn't feel like the 15secs it says) So, the question is, are there any known problems with the driver in -stable, or anywhere that I should be looking for where the problem is? I don't know if maybe I've left out something from my kernel, included is my config file for the current kernel: # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.46.2.8 1996/01/20 06:13:20 nate Exp $ # machine "i386" cpu "I486_CPU" ident kinet maxusers 10 options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller eisa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 controller ncr0 controller ahb0 controller ahc0 controller ahc1 controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector bt_isa_intr controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr controller nca1 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console #device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 # Mandatory, don't remove device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 1 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device #pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Feb 1 21:05:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA11369 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:05:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA11348 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA00389; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:05:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:05:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: PCI-SC200 SCSI Controller on ACER AP43 486 Motherboard Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I asked earlier about this, but figured out a little bit more detail that might help. First, I'm trying to get a PCI-SC200 controller running on a 486DX4-100 ACER PCI motherboard (the motherboard has BIOS support for the 53c810). When I boot up, just before F1-FreeBSD comes up, the SCSI controller comes up, and probes the SCSI devices, and finds all three of my drives, therefore I'm assuming that the controller works. After hitting F1, and hitting return at 'Boot:', the operating system also find the ncr0 device, with a message of (not 100% exact): ncr0: <53c810> rev 2 int a irq 12 on pci0:11 After which, it panics and reboots. So, I'm assuming that FreeBSD is properly finding the controller. Now, one thing I hadn't thought about in the last, which is prompting me to write a new "query". I have an ATI Mach64 PCI 4M video card in this machine, that on a normal boot (without the PCI-SC200 installed) as: FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE #5: Thu Feb 1 23:29:03 EST 1996 scrappy@ki.net:/home/stable/sys/compile/kinet CPU: i486 DX4 (486-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x480 Stepping=0 Features=0x3 real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) avail memory = 14807040 (14460K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 49 on pci0:5 vga0 rev 0 on pci0:15 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: It didn't click in the first time that the failure was occuring between findign the ncr0 and not finding the vga0, but I'm not sure if that is relevant. Where does the OS "look for" the sdx devices? ie. should it be probing for the SCSI devices before finding the vga0 device? Or sometime after that? My first assumption is that it should be before, right after finding the controller itself. Hopefully this is better detail then my last one. I'm sending this to the -current list as well, as this may be something that *was* a known problem and has been since fixed in -current. I had thought about just grabbing ncr.c and ncrreg.h from -current and plugging it in, but didn't figure that was a wise thing to do (a diff between -stable/-current shows alot of changes, to the extent of defines totally being renamed) I have no problems with having to reboot and test out things on this machine to get it working, so suggestions/recommendations are most welcome. Thanks... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Feb 2 09:05:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01080 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:05:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00973 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA00358 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:53:26 -0800 Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06010; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:35:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:35:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: current@freebsd.org cc: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? In-Reply-To: <199602021215.AA17042@Sysiphos> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, Stefan Esser wrote: > On Feb 1, 22:19, "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > } Subject: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? > } > } Hi... > } > } I just picked up an ASUS PCI SC-200 SCSI controller and tried > } to install it on a -stable kernel, and it failed to boot. > } > } The "BIOS" finds it, and the drives, and FreeBSD seems to find > } it, or at least, it prints up what I expect it to in the boot phase. > } It finds it at the right INT/IRQ, and puts it on 'pci0:11', all as I > } expect. > > Which IRQ does it find ? > Are you sure that IRQ has not been assigned to some > ISA device ? > I've tried both 9 and 12, with the same results. Looking through dmesg on a "good boot" (using an Adaptec 1542CF controller instead), there is nothing listed as being at either of those IRQs: sio @ 4 and 3 lp @ 7 ether @ 10 vt0 @ 1 fd @ 6 And that's it, at least according to dmesg > Could you please try booting the kernel up to the panic, > and then boot some other kernel that is known to work. That kernel is actually known to work, but I don't have any kernel that works with the PCI SCSI controller. I'm running the exact same kernel with the aha driver and ncr driver enabled. > Check, whether the second kernel can get at the first > one's message buffer (i.e. whether 'dmesg' still gets > at the messages from the failed boot attempt ...) > Assuming I understand what you mean here, I have tried this, and it doesn't work. dmesg only gets the "current bootup" > Guess there is some hardware configuration proble, > e.g. the card might be jumpered to use some PCI > interrupt line other than IntA. > Checked that too, even tried a different slot. I did a follow-up posting to current@/stable@ with a few more details, like the fact that on a clean boot, my "PCI" devices come up as: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 49 on pci0:5 vga0 rev 0 on pci0:15 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: If I install the NCR, I get chip0, then ncr0 on pci0:11, and at that point, it panics. So, it is finding the ncr0 device, and even at the IRQ/INT that I'm expecting it at, but its either failing at the SCSI probe part (where it looks for the drives) or, if the probe for vga0 is before that (not sure of ordering here), its failing to find the vga0 device. The vga0 device is an ATI Mach64 PCI w/ 4M VRAM...in case that clicks something somewhere? > Seems fine except for the fact, that there are quite > a number of devices, that surely don't all fit into > your system :) > Was worried I might have missed something... > And I now think, that one of them conflicts with the > IRQ assigned to the NCR ... > Any idea of which? Again, it is finding my SCSI card, as is the BIOS on bootup, it just seems to either be failing at the drive probe, or at the vga0 probe...depending on which ordering is correct. Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Feb 2 09:06:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01191 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01162 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id EAA06457 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 04:25:05 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA17042 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:15:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199602021215.AA17042@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:15:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Marc G. Fournier" "ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable?" (Feb 1, 22:19) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Marc G. Fournier" Subject: Re: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? Cc: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 1, 22:19, "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: } Subject: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? } } Hi... } } I just picked up an ASUS PCI SC-200 SCSI controller and tried } to install it on a -stable kernel, and it failed to boot. } } The "BIOS" finds it, and the drives, and FreeBSD seems to find } it, or at least, it prints up what I expect it to in the boot phase. } It finds it at the right INT/IRQ, and puts it on 'pci0:11', all as I } expect. Which IRQ does it find ? Are you sure that IRQ has not been assigned to some ISA device ? There currently is NO conflict checking between PCI and ISA devices, though I've got code ready for test that will repair this ... Could you please try booting the kernel up to the panic, and then boot some other kernel that is known to work. Check, whether the second kernel can get at the first one's message buffer (i.e. whether 'dmesg' still gets at the messages from the failed boot attempt ...) } The next line doesn't come, just a panic, and the reboot is so } quick, that I can barely focus on the screen to start writing before } it reboots (doesn't feel like the 15secs it says) } } So, the question is, are there any known problems with the driver } in -stable, or anywhere that I should be looking for where the problem is? Well, I can assure you, that the driver in -stable should work with the ASUS SC-200 just fine ... There has been one trivial change in January, the last substantial change was back in October 1995. Guess there is some hardware configuration proble, e.g. the card might be jumpered to use some PCI interrupt line other than IntA. } I don't know if maybe I've left out something from my kernel, } included is my config file for the current kernel: Seems fine except for the fact, that there are quite a number of devices, that surely don't all fit into your system :) And I now think, that one of them conflicts with the IRQ assigned to the NCR ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Feb 2 11:05:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01827 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01695 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:08:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de [134.169.246.34]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA05744 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:13:13 -0800 Received: from achill [134.169.34.18] by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) with ESMTP id LAA23412; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:07:20 +0100 Received: from petri@localhost by achill.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) id LAA01157; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:07:18 +0100 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:07:18 +0100 From: Stefan Petri Message-Id: <199602021007.LAA01157@achill.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua CC: ache@astral.msk.su, stable@freebsd.org In-reply-to: "Andrew V. Stesin"'s message of Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:32:52 +0200 (EET) <199602011832.UAA12802@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Bringing locale changes into -stable Reply-to: petri@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Andrew> wouldn't you mind bringing your recent changes (STARTUP_SETLOCALE Andrew> hack removal and corresponding additions to userland utils) Andrew> into -stable branch, too? That will definitely make non-English Andrew> FreeBSD users a bit happier. Not really all of them would like to trade bigger and slower programs for non-english language. _Please_ make it a compile to option to just leave out all that localisation thingies and have a simple, small and fast system instead! Stefan From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Feb 2 12:03:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA19185 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19158 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:02:09 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA14322 for stable@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:14:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199602021914.LAA14322@dtr.com> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:14:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jan 31, 96 03:34:52 am Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > (7) What's the second field in /etc/ccd.conf? > That's the "interleave size". Basically, the ccd driver will write > this many sectors (usually 512 bytes) to one disk before it moves to > the next disk. As a special case, a zero here means no interleave, > i.e., to concatenate disks serially. > We have found that in FFS, a value of 16 usually optimizes read > performance, while the write peaks with a much larger value (like > 512). This probably has to do with cluster_write() thinking it's > writing to a single disk when it's actually not. This is one of the > things we are planning to fix. I've done some performance testing - both mirrored and striped - on one of my systems. I noted a different performance curve than you did, so I thought you might like to see them. (I used a SCSI-I disk, and provided the results run on a standard FFS - the numbers are mostly useful to compare to the FFS baseline results.) The results are at "http://www.dtr.com/ccd" - Mostly it's raw results and a quick-n-dirty summary and Excel spreadsheet with the performance curve graphed. The results and summary are in ASCII. I have also included the script that I used to run the tests. I've also got some ambitious ideas for improving the ccd driver - nothing coded, just some raw ideas. (hot swappable mirrors, etc.). At work, I deal with three different host-based fault-tolerance implementations (Sequent Dynix and ptx/SVM, as well as the Solaris disk suite) - the current ccd driver resembles Dynix; some of the ideas I have in mind are borrowed from SVM and Solaris. If you're interested in hearing what I have in mind, I'll write something up and forward it to you. From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Feb 2 12:49:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23237 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:49:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA23226 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA00913; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:48:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: PR: ASUS PC-SC200 panicks at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I just submitted a problem report for the problem I'm having with the PCI-SC200 card, mainly because I've now got what I think is sufficient data. Today, I realized that I didn't have DDB enabled on my kernel, which is why I could never get a trace on the panic, so, here is what I think is the pertinent data, in its entirety, including teh config file for the kernel I'm using to debug this with. I'm sending this to current, as this might be a problem that was known to be in stable, has been fixed in current, but hasn't been brought back to stable yet...well, I'm hoping it was a known problem at least :( Thanks... ----[ outcome of booting with ASUS PC-SC200 controller ]---- FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE #6: Fri Feb 2 14:09:42 EST 1996 scrappy@ki.net:/home/stable/sys/compile/kinet CPU: i486 DX4 (486-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x480 Stepping=0 Features=0x3 real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) avail memory = 14716928 (14372K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 49 on pci0:5 ncr0 rev 2 int a irq 12 on pci0:11 Fatal Trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x7 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0173724 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 () interrupt mask = net tty bio kernel: type 12, code = 0 Stopped at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20: cmpb $0,0x7(%ebx) db> tra _scsi_attachdevs() at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20 _ncr_attach() at _ncr_attach+0x192 _pci_bus_config() at _pci_bus_config+0x4b8 _pci_configure() at _pci_configure+0x51 _configure() at _configure+0x2a _cpu_startup() at _cpu_startup+4b6 _main() at _main+0x36 begin() at begin+0x6b db> -----[ config file for kernel being used for testing ]----- machine "i386" cpu "I486_CPU" ident kinet maxusers 32 options "CHILD_MAX=128" options "OPEN_MAX=128" options USER_LDT #allow user-level control of i386 ldt options QUOTA #enable disk quotas options DDB options DODUMP options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller ncr0 controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device speaker #Play IBM BASIC-style noises out your speaker pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 64 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 ----[ dmesg output for same system without the ncr controller ]---- FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE #6: Fri Feb 2 14:09:42 EST 1996 scrappy@ki.net:/home/stable/sys/compile/kinet CPU: i486 DX4 (486-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x480 Stepping=0 Features=0x3 real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) avail memory = 14716928 (14372K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 49 on pci0:5 vga0 rev 0 on pci0:15 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: vt0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard vt0: generic, 80 col, color, 8 scr, mf2-kbd, [R3.20-b24] sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa aha0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (aha0:0:0): "CONNER CFA540S 13B0" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(aha0:0:0): Direct-Access 515MB (1056708 512 byte sectors) (aha0:1:0): "QUANTUM LPS340S 020B" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(aha0:1:0): Direct-Access 327MB (670506 512 byte sectors) (aha0:2:0): "QUANTUM LP240S GM240S01X 4.6" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(aha0:2:0): Direct-Access 234MB (479350 512 byte sectors) 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x300 ep0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa ep0: aui/bnc[*BNC*] address 00:a0:24:0a:6d:ce irq 10 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Feb 2 15:42:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA17110 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16991 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA01725 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:40:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199602022340.AA01725@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:40:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Marc G. Fournier" "PR: ASUS PC-SC200 panicks at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20" (Feb 2, 15:48) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Marc G. Fournier" Subject: Re: PR: ASUS PC-SC200 panicks at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20 Cc: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 2, 15:48, "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: } Subject: PR: ASUS PC-SC200 panicks at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20 } } Hi... } } I just submitted a problem report for the problem I'm having } with the PCI-SC200 card, mainly because I've now got what I think is } sufficient data. Well, yes, having looked at it, I'd tend to agree :) } I'm sending this to current, as this might be a problem that } was known to be in stable, has been fixed in current, but hasn't been } brought back to stable yet...well, I'm hoping it was a known problem } at least :( Haven't checked for differences between -stable and -current in this area, but I have identified the failing instruction. See below ... } ncr0 rev 2 int a irq 12 on pci0:11 } } Fatal Trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode } fault virtual address = 0x7 } fault code = supervisor read, page not present } instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0173724 } code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b } = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 } processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 } current process = 0 () } interrupt mask = net tty bio } kernel: type 12, code = 0 } Stopped at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20: cmpb $0,0x7(%ebx) } db> tra } _scsi_attachdevs() at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20 } _ncr_attach() at _ncr_attach+0x192 } _pci_bus_config() at _pci_bus_config+0x4b8 } _pci_configure() at _pci_configure+0x51 } _configure() at _configure+0x2a } _cpu_startup() at _cpu_startup+4b6 } _main() at _main+0x36 } begin() at begin+0x6b } db> void scsi_attachdevs(scbus) struct scsibus_data *scbus; { int scsibus; struct scsi_link *sc_link_proto = scbus->adapter_link; if ( (scsibus = scsi_bus_conf(sc_link_proto)) == -1) { return; } /* * if the adapter didn't give us this, set a default * (compatibility with old adapter drivers) */ if(!(sc_link_proto->opennings)) { <=== openings is at offset 7 sc_link_proto->opennings = 1; } } Stopped at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20: cmpb $0,0x7(%ebx) <=== Looks as if scbus->adapter_link had not been correctly initialized ... But I checked the code in the NCR driver leading to scsi_attachdevs(), and it seems that np->sc_link is correctly allocated, and that it is dereferenced successfully just before the call np->sc_link.adapter = &ncr_switch; np->sc_link.device = &ncr_dev; np->sc_link.flags = 0; if(!scbus) return; scbus->adapter_link = &np->sc_link; { some unrelated code removed ... } scsi_attachdevs (scbus); And the access to scbus->opennings fails, but the flags component has been accessed just a few instructions before ... struct scsi_link { u_int8 target; /* targ of this dev */ u_int8 lun; /* lun of this dev */ u_int8 adapter_targ; /* what are we on the scsi bus */ u_int8 adapter_unit; /* e.g. the 0 in aha0 */ u_int8 adapter_bus; /* e.g. the 0 in bus0 */ u_int8 scsibus; /* the Nth scsibus */ u_int8 dev_unit; /* e.g. the 0 in sd0 */ u_int8 opennings; /* available operations */ u_int8 active; /* operations in progress */ u_int16 flags; /* flags that all devices have */ u_int16 quirks; /* device specific quirks */ ... } Don't currently understand, what's going on here ... Could you please print the value of scbus and scbus->adapter_link before the call to scsi_attachdevs() and the corresponding values within that function ? I don't see what's going on here, but I don't have a 2.1R tree checked out and can't easily build and boot a 2.1R kernel currently ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Feb 2 17:03:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA24730 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:03:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24669 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA22138; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:00:14 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199602030100.RAA22138@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: bmk@dtr.com Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:00:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602021914.LAA14322@dtr.com> from "bmk@dtr.com" at Feb 2, 96 11:14:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [Sic to use the list for this, but it may get to you] > > > (7) What's the second field in /etc/ccd.conf? > > > That's the "interleave size". Basically, the ccd driver will write > > this many sectors (usually 512 bytes) to one disk before it moves to > > the next disk. As a special case, a zero here means no interleave, > > i.e., to concatenate disks serially. > > > We have found that in FFS, a value of 16 usually optimizes read > > performance, while the write peaks with a much larger value (like > > 512). This probably has to do with cluster_write() thinking it's > > writing to a single disk when it's actually not. This is one of the > > things we are planning to fix. > > I've done some performance testing - both mirrored and striped - on > one of my systems. I noted a different performance curve than you did, > so I thought you might like to see them. (I used a SCSI-I disk, and > provided the results run on a standard FFS - the numbers are mostly > useful to compare to the FFS baseline results.) > > The results are at "http://www.dtr.com/ccd" - Mostly it's raw results If you are wondering why you have not heard from me I am having problems resolving your domain: Mail Queue (1 request) --Q-ID-- --Size-- -----Q-Time----- ------------Sender/Recipient------------ XAA20111 801 Wed Jan 31 23:21 sales (dtr.com: Name server timeout) bmk@dtr.com GndRsh:rgrimes {166} nslookup Default Server: GndRsh.aac.dev.com Address: 0.0.0.0 > set query=any > dtr.com. Server: GndRsh.aac.dev.com Address: 0.0.0.0 Non-authoritative answer: dtr.com nameserver = NS.TRANSPORT.COM dtr.com nameserver = NS.MLN.COM Authoritative answers can be found from: dtr.com nameserver = NS.TRANSPORT.COM dtr.com nameserver = NS.MLN.COM NS.TRANSPORT.COM internet address = 204.119.17.6 NS.MLN.COM internet address = 199.46.16.1 > server 204.119.17.6 Default Server: www.transport.com Address: 204.119.17.6 > dtr.com. Server: www.transport.com Address: 204.119.17.6 Non-authoritative answer: dtr.com nameserver = mln.mln.com dtr.com preference = 10, mail exchanger = mail.dtr.com Authoritative answers can be found from: dtr.com nameserver = mln.mln.com mail.dtr.com internet address = 204.119.17.5 > a) You have a bad set of deligations for dtr.com b) I can not resolve mln.mln.com c) I can not reach ns.mln.com (199.46.16.1) > and a quick-n-dirty summary and Excel spreadsheet with the performance > curve graphed. The results and summary are in ASCII. I have also > included the script that I used to run the tests. > > I've also got some ambitious ideas for improving the ccd driver - > nothing coded, just some raw ideas. (hot swappable mirrors, etc.). > At work, I deal with three different host-based fault-tolerance > implementations (Sequent Dynix and ptx/SVM, as well as the Solaris disk > suite) - the current ccd driver resembles Dynix; some of the ideas I > have in mind are borrowed from SVM and Solaris. > > If you're interested in hearing what I have in mind, I'll write > something up and forward it to you. > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Feb 2 17:15:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26079 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA26072 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:15:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03516; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:15:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:15:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Stefan Esser cc: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PR: ASUS PC-SC200 panicks at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20 In-Reply-To: <199602022340.AA01725@Sysiphos> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Stefan Esser wrote: > Well, yes, having looked at it, I'd tend to agree :) > Apologizes for previous ones...figured it might be one of those "known" bugs that someone would pop up with "just change this" *sigh* > void > scsi_attachdevs(scbus) > struct scsibus_data *scbus; > { > int scsibus; > struct scsi_link *sc_link_proto = scbus->adapter_link; > > if ( (scsibus = scsi_bus_conf(sc_link_proto)) == -1) { > return; > } > /* > * if the adapter didn't give us this, set a default > * (compatibility with old adapter drivers) > */ > if(!(sc_link_proto->opennings)) { <=== openings is at offset 7 > sc_link_proto->opennings = 1; > } > > } Stopped at _scsi_attachdevs+0x20: cmpb $0,0x7(%ebx) <=== > Stupid question, but how do I read this? I'd like to at least be able to present the code along with my debug reports, so that everyone else doesn't have to go searching :) > Could you please print the value of scbus > and scbus->adapter_link before the call to > scsi_attachdevs() and the corresponding > values within that function ? > Okay, but you'll need to tell me how. All I have to work with is DDB, since I'm not getting a physical dump, and all I know how to use so far in DDB (all I've ever needed to use) is trace :( I'm going to read through the man page on DDB right now, and see if I can figure it out, but it may be faster if someone just tells me what I should be doing, at least for the first time? :( > I don't see what's going on here, but I > don't have a 2.1R tree checked out and > can't easily build and boot a 2.1R kernel > currently ... > No probs, I don't mind being a guinea pig :) Once I get this machine upgraded properly, -current is going onto it, but I can't get -current onto it until I get this controller working (chicken before egg dilemna :( ) Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 04:11:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA24950 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de (methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de [130.133.2.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA24899 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.29.1) from hal.in-berlin.de with gsmtp id ; Sat, 3 Feb 96 13:10 MET Received: by hal.in-berlin.de (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0tigks-000Ba1C; Sat, 3 Feb 96 13:07 MET Message-Id: From: dirk@hal.in-berlin.de (Dirk Froemberg) Subject: Missing CTM-pieces To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:07:46 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello! A few days ago I started with FreeBSD-stable via CTM. The first piece I got through mail was src-2.1.0028.gz. Unfortunaly the pieces I could grab with ftp were only up to src-2.1.0024.gz. So I'm missing piece 0025 to 0027. Is it possible for someone to put the pieces in ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming? Thanks in advance Dirk -- e-mail: dirk@hal.in-berlin.de PGP-Public-Key available From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 11:06:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA20646 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:06:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20640 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA27306; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:06:25 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:06:27 -0600 To: Kim Culhan From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: sup is broken? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I have been trying for many hours to sup -stable and am becoming >convinced it is not possible. >the sup server became busy. From recent experience this will continue >to back-off in retry time, effectively hanging it for the next several >hours. >Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather than sup. sup REQUIRES that the server be available to you when you request it. ctm can be used as either a "pull" or, preferably, a "push" technology. You can obtain the changes via ftp from our ftp servers or, if you attempt to update frequently (I'd say weekly or more often), you can have the updates automatically mailed to you on a daily basis. Since the daily changes are a file that is often less than 1k bytes, you can see that the traffic is much less. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 11:16:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21679 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21656 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00544; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:16:03 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:16:03 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup is broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > >I have been trying for many hours to sup -stable and am becoming > >convinced it is not possible. > I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather than sup. Where are the instructions located on how to setup ctm? kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 11:31:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA23156 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23147 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA27410; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:31:31 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:31:32 -0600 To: Kim Culhan From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: sup is broken? Cc: stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > >> >I have been trying for many hours to sup -stable and am becoming >> >convinced it is not possible. > >> I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather >>than sup. > >Where are the instructions located on how to setup ctm? Try the ctm.FAQ. For -stable, look at ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ctm/ The readme file tells you the differences from using it for -current. We are still setting things up to automatically post the update files automatically. In the interim, you can find the missing ones in /pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 11:43:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA23831 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23822 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00649; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:43:10 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:43:10 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup is broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > >On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > > >> >I have been trying for many hours to sup -stable and am becoming > >> >convinced it is not possible. > > > >> I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather > >>than sup. > > > >Where are the instructions located on how to setup ctm? > If the sup server isn't going to work anymore, why don't you remove all references to it including the FAQ etc ? It used to work fine, now it doesn't. I guess this is just a load factor.. If it is a matter of load, who is able to use it to generate that load and why can't I operate in that mode? regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 12:42:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28173 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from scrooge.ee.swin.oz.au (scrooge.ee.swin.oz.au [136.186.4.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28168 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dtc@localhost) by scrooge.ee.swin.oz.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA07606 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 07:43:45 +1100 From: Douglas Thomas Crosher Message-Id: <199602032043.HAA07606@scrooge.ee.swin.oz.au> Subject: Help: trap fault when swapping To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 07:43:43 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Every time I try running large lisp programs on my rather memory limit PC the freebsd kernels give me trouble. I not sure if it is my hardware that is perhaps picking up some errors in all the swapping or a kernel fault. I doubt it is a memory problem as the machine had been running well on jobs that worked the memory and processors hard and long, but without the swapping. I had been running current, but switched to stable to try and get my machine stable. So the OS is Freebsd-stable of last nights sup. But I've now got the following panic from the kernel on the last two attempts to get a result out of my job. -=-=- Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0xdeadc10a ^^^^ quite an appropriate address I thought :) fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8: 0xf011287c code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1 def 32 1 gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume IOPL=0 current process = 13192 (top) interrupt mask = kernel: type 12 trap, code = 0 stopped at _sysctl_doproc + 0x64: cmp $0x1, 0x2c(%ebx) -=-=-=- I did a 'show map' and got: Task map 0xf011187c: pmap=0x12c7b80 ref=-1962934272 nentries=251658240 version=5 ^^^^^^^ is this a problem? mapentry 0xf0112923: start-0x5376000, end=0xfe95858d, prot=68/0/copy, wired,object-0x5350ffff, offset-0xa8e8. Then it had a Trap Fault 12... -=-=-= >From what I remember of the first panic it stopped with the same fault at _sysctl_doproc. The machine is a P90 with P/I-P55TP4 motherboard, 16M ram, and was swapping off two WD IDE hard disks. The lisp job was about 40M in size and was using mprotect to help reduce the garbage collection effort. The lisp program was over nfs if that is significant. If it is likely the hardward, do people have machines that really thrash with SCSI-2 busses with parity checking? Regards Douglas Crosher From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 12:49:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28477 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:49:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28470 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA27710; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:48:58 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:48:59 -0600 To: Kim Culhan From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: sup is broken? Cc: stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Call me slow etc but judging by the FAQ thats the time frame. > >Don't mean to say anything nasty but.. with those instructions its not >exactly a 'first pass' operation for me at this point. You can use the alternative, which I guarantee is easier than sup to set up. Simply make a directory (ctm_directory) to hold the ctm files. Use ftp to fetch them from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ctm/ (and /pub/FreeBSD/incoming/src-2.1* if update 29 hasn't been moved yet) Set up the initial src/ directory -- empty if you don't have the CD (use the "A" starter) or a copy of the src/ tree from the CD ROM (use the much smaller "C" starter) run ctm ctm ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:50:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30753-2>; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:52:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:52:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Kim Culhan cc: Richard Wackerbarth , stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sup is broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Kim Culhan wrote: > On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > > >On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > > > > >> >I have been trying for many hours to sup -stable and am becoming > > >> >convinced it is not possible. > > > > > >> I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather > > >>than sup. > > > > > >Where are the instructions located on how to setup ctm? > > > > If the sup server isn't going to work anymore, why don't you remove all > references to it including the FAQ etc ? I think Richard is being overly dramtic. sup is still pretty good way of getting updates, and still being supported. > It used to work fine, now it doesn't. I guess this is just a load factor.. There is also sup2.freebsd.org > If it is a matter of load, who is able to use it to generate that load > and why can't I operate in that mode? Run "sup" in an infinite loop for a few days. Eventually, you will get a slot. (This is a bad thing, BTW) > > regards > kim > > -- > kimc@w8hd.org > Tom From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 12:52:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28779 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:52:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28770 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA00858; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:52:00 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:52:00 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup is broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > Set up the initial src/ directory -- empty if you don't have the CD (use > the "A" starter) or a copy of the src/ tree from the CD ROM (use the much > smaller "C" starter) Do you mean as in /usr/src ? > run ctm ctm > That will bring you up to date. > > If you later wish to update again, fetch the newer files (they will be > quite small) and run ctm again. Jeeze thats not too hard at all, I regret all those nasty thoughts :) Thanks for the info, I'm going to set it up. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 12:57:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29039 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:57:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29028 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA27736; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:57:05 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:57:07 -0600 To: Tom Samplonius From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: sup is broken? Cc: stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> If the sup server isn't going to work anymore, why don't you remove all >> references to it including the FAQ etc ? > > I think Richard is being overly dramtic. sup is still pretty good way >of getting updates, and still being supported. What's dramatic? I didn't claim that sup was bad or unsupported. I do advocate taking the load off of the sup servers by going to a "push" technology rather than a "pull" technology. > Run "sup" in an infinite loop for a few days. Eventually, you will get >a slot. (This is a bad thing, BTW) But necessary. :-( ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 13:06:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA29758 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:06:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29750 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA27772; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:06:21 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:06:24 -0600 To: Kim Culhan From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: sup is broken? Cc: stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > >> Set up the initial src/ directory -- empty if you don't have the CD (use >> the "A" starter) or a copy of the src/ tree from the CD ROM (use the much >> smaller "C" starter) > >Do you mean as in /usr/src ? Yes. (and NO) I suggest that you create a separate directory for the 2.1 tree Mine is in /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-2.1/src/, but that is because I make it publically available. You might want to use /usr/FreeBSD-2.1/src/ Then use lndir to "clone" it into /usr/src/. That way, your objects and, more importantly, any local modifications, will not polute the distributed tree. CTM is VERY particular that you not modify its tree yourself. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 14:22:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07316 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:22:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07305 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA01332; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:22:28 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:22:27 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: majors.i386 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk While sup'ing -stable from the sup3 site I noticed it deleted sys/i386/conf/majors.i386 This was recently obtained during a failed attempt from freefall, is this delete Ok? kim From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 14:23:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07358 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:23:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07347 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA25915 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:23:00 -0800 To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Any objection to bringing the sup sources from current into -stable? Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 14:23:00 -0800 Message-ID: <25913.823386180@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It would make my life easier, actually. Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 14:50:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA09159 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09153 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA11046; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:50:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199602032250.OAA11046@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Douglas Thomas Crosher cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help: trap fault when swapping In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Feb 1996 07:43:43 +1100." <199602032043.HAA07606@scrooge.ee.swin.oz.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 14:50:46 -0800 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Every time I try running large lisp programs on my rather >memory limit PC the freebsd kernels give me trouble. I not sure if it ... >Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >fault virtual address = 0xdeadc10a ... >stopped at _sysctl_doproc + 0x64: cmp $0x1, 0x2c(%ebx) This is actually a difficult bug to fix. It's caused by the sysctl system- call blocking while it's copying out process information; such is the case when you run ps(1) or 'top' while the system is paging heavily. The current process that it's copying out information for has exited and the p_next pointer has become invalid because the proc data structure was freed. Whenever a process blocks, the state of the linked processes in the process list can and often will change - you can't assume anything about it after the process wakes up again. One way to fix this would be to make sure that the system call is atomic and doesn't block. This requires faulting and locking the process' pages into memory before traversing the proc list. The problem with this is that the memory required to copy out the information for all of the processes in the system might be quite large (perhaps exceeding the amount of available memory!). There are other possible solutions...I'll have to think about this problem more and discuss it with some other people. >I did a 'show map' and got: The "show map" command is broken in DDB, and in any case is not relavent to this problem. -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 15:35:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11032 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11024 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:35:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA26949; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:35:01 -0800 To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: Kim Culhan , hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup is broken? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Feb 1996 13:06:27 CST." Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 15:35:00 -0800 Message-ID: <26947.823390500@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather than sup That's one option, or as I also told Kim - PLEASE DON'T USE SUP.FREEBSD.ORG TO UPDATE YOURSELF! I've certainly covered this in enough discussion that anyone still using sup.freebsd.org is either masochistic or blind. We have 3 perfectly good alternate sup servers to use, and I really do wish more people would use them! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 18:49:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA19841 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19814 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00463; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:49:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:49:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: current@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: FIXED: NCR problem until -stable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... After figuring out that scbus wasn't a known symbol, and looking through the ncr.c code, I recompiled the kernel using gcc 2.6.3 instead of 2.7.2, and the system is operational again. That's for the lesson in DDB, since without that, I would never have figured this out on my own. One stupid question though...in ncr.c, the "offending" code was where statements like: #if (__FreeBSD__ >= 2) struct scsibus_data *scbus; #endif happened. Where its checking to see if __FreeBSD__ >= 2...now, I realize that if my 2.7.2 was proper, this wouldn't happen, but since this is 2.1-STABLE, is there a reason why those statements aren't just changed to #if (__FreeBSD__) struct scsibus_data *scbus; #endif ? Even looking through /usr/src/current/sys sources, there are alot of similar #if structs...if there is no reason for it anymore, and I generate patches to get rid of all that, is there someone I can submit the patches to in order to get it rolled into -current? Thanks... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 19:24:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA21297 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21288 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA28245; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:26:56 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:26:56 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602040326.UAA28245@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any objection to bringing the sup sources from current into -stable? In-Reply-To: <25913.823386180@time.cdrom.com> References: <25913.823386180@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > It would make my life easier, actually. I don't have a problem. It only used by developers, so I suspect any bugs would have been found in -current anyway. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 20:02:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA23389 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:02:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA23384 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id PAA20522; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 15:02:02 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199602040402.PAA20522@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: SUP busy? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 15:01:58 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602040211.DAA15448@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 4, 96 03:11:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > If you're in europe, try nic.funet.fi. > If you're in germany, try sup.de.freebsd.org. Whilst not appropriate to European sites .. for Australia and New Zealand, we have sup.au.freebsd.org and sup2.au.freebsd.org, michael From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 20:10:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA23830 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA23825 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA03111; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 14:56:53 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602040426.OAA03111@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: majors.i386 To: kimc@w8hd.org (Kim Culhan) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 14:56:53 +1030 (CST) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Kim Culhan" at Feb 3, 96 05:22:27 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Kim Culhan stands accused of saying: > > While sup'ing -stable from the sup3 site I noticed it deleted > sys/i386/conf/majors.i386 > > This was recently obtained during a failed attempt from freefall, is > this delete Ok? Since most sup users are the reticent technical types, I'll stand up and SHOUT ABOUT THIS REALLY LOUDLY. _DO_NOT_SUP_FROM_FREEFALL_ Freefall is _overloaded_. It is _sinking_. It is the sole cause for true concern about landfill subsidence in that area. If you are in the US, rummage through the .freebsd.org domain; I can resolve sup2, sup3 and sup4, I'm sure there are more that aren't in there yet. If you're overseas, there's likely a server nearer to you; here we have sup.au.freebsd.org, and sup2.au... at least. If you sup from Freefall, your hair will fall out, you will give birth to small hairy aliens that will eat your socks, and _weird_ things may happen to the state of your source tree. Pick a _single_ supserver, and stick with it. You may be half a day or so behind the bleeding edge, but that will let the commit mails get to you before you hose everything. > kim -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Feb 3 22:41:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02748 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02739 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01786; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 08:40:39 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199602040640.IAA01786@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: michael butler cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP busy? Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 08:40:39 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk michael butler wrote: > J Wunsch writes: > > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > If you're in europe, try nic.funet.fi. > > > If you're in germany, try sup.de.freebsd.org. > > Whilst not appropriate to European sites .. for Australia and New Zealand, > we have sup.au.freebsd.org and sup2.au.freebsd.org, ... and in South Africa there is sup.za.freebsd.org, ftp.za.freebsd.org and ftp2.frebsd.org. There are also CTMs of the international crypto code if for FTP and for email for thos who ask me. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key