From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 00:35:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA20538 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 00:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA20506 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 00:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (fluffy.aros.net [205.164.111.2]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.7.5/Unknown) with ESMTP id CAA09687 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 02:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from angio@localhost) by fluffy.aros.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) id BAA05549 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:34:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199606090734.BAA05549@fluffy.aros.net> Subject: Kernel panic - double fault To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:34:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This came up on my news server today.. it's a p100, 64mb, 4 scsi drives on two AHA2940 (one UW) controllers, using the ccd for two of the drives. After the syncing disks... message, the computer froze and had to be hardware reset. Any guesses or interpretations? -stable (June 1st, the last CTM delta before the .. interesting series of commits. :) Fatal double fault: eip = 0xf0175aa9 esp = 0xefbffeb8 epb = 0xefbffee4 panic: double fault syncing disks... From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 00:48:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA24098 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 00:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA24068 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 00:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA02269; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 10:51:33 +0300 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 10:51:33 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: stable@freebsd.org cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Policy on -stable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! This is a mail regarding the core-team policy on stable which might be of general intrest. From the mails over recent days, it is obvious that the current situation with -stable is greatly broken and is redunt to be continued. But as there has been no clear enough announcement from the core team on the future of -stable (sorry if it's just me), let me ask: 1) Shall there be 2 releases based on -stable, like planned before (that is - 2.1.1-RELEASE and 2.1.5-RELEASE) or just one. 2) Shall an attempt be made to find resources (and a full-timer) to keep -stable (mean a non-active attempt from the part of the core-team rather than going out and trying to find the money). 3) If -stable is dropped (as it seems to be more then possible on the moment) what will be the future policy on -stable-like things? Shall there be a -stable branch for some time before the release to which only bug-fixes will be applied? Shall there be a post-relese -stable-like bug-fix branch? I'm sorry if no decisions like these exist, in which case please just ignore this mail. PLEASE! DON'T ANYBODY BUT THE CORE-TEAM MEMBERS ANSWER TO THIS MAIL! With best regards, Sander From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 01:23:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA02230 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kachina.jetcafe.org (kachina.jetcafe.org [206.117.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA02214; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([127.0.0.1]) by kachina.jetcafe.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA20929; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606090823.BAA20929@kachina.jetcafe.org> X-Authentication-Warning: kachina.jetcafe.org: Host [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: nate@sri.mt.net (Nate Williams), stable@freebsd.org, committers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of -stable Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 01:23:22 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: >As Nate Williams wrote: >> Note, *IF* you ended up with libc.so.3.0 built on your system, you are >> in a a bit of a sticky situation. There is no longer version 3.0 of the >> library, as it's been reverted back to the 2.2 version. However, *IF* >Only as a reminder what's my usual trick to work around such a >situation: > mkdir /usr/junklib > mv /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 /usr/junklib # run chflags before if needed > ldconfig -m /usr/junklib A shorter but hackier way is to do rm /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 ln /usr/lib/libc.so.2.2 /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 which is what I did to fix things. ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet You have a duty to perform. Do anything else, do any number of things, occupy your time fully, and yet, if you do not do this task, all of your time will have been wasted. From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 01:42:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07523 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from komkon.org (root@komkon.org [204.213.176.71]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07503 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from str@localhost) by komkon.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id EAA16860 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 04:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 04:43:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Igor Roshchin Message-Id: <199606090843.EAA16860@komkon.org> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk subscribe From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 01:42:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07635 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07614 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA14891; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606090842.BAA14891@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Narvi cc: stable@freebsd.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Policy on -stable In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 1996 10:51:33 +0300." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 01:42:39 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is a mail regarding the core-team policy on stable which might be >of general intrest. From the mails over recent days, it is obvious that the >current situation with -stable is greatly broken and is redunt to be >continued. But as there has been no clear enough announcement from the >core team on the future of -stable (sorry if it's just me), let me ask: > >1) Shall there be 2 releases based on -stable, like planned before (that > is - 2.1.1-RELEASE and 2.1.5-RELEASE) or just one. We only planned on one more release from that branch: 2.1.5. We once thought of calling it 2.1.1, but there are too many changes to call it this and people wouldn't appreciate the significance of the release. >2) Shall an attempt be made to find resources (and a full-timer) to keep > -stable (mean a non-active attempt from the part of the core-team > rather than going out and trying to find the money). That would be nice, but finding that person is going to be very difficult. Finding a person who sends me email for every kernel patch, asking if it should be included, is NOT what we need - this would consume more time than if I just did it myself. >3) If -stable is dropped (as it seems to be more then possible on the > moment) what will be the future policy on -stable-like things? Shall > there be a -stable branch for some time before the release to which only > bug-fixes will be applied? Shall there be a post-relese -stable-like > bug-fix branch? It's clear that the concept of a -stable is important to a large number of people. We'll have to find some way to achieve the same end in an easier to manage fashion. We don't have a solution to this yet. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 01:43:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA07977 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07957 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA14911; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606090843.BAA14911@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Dave Andersen cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 1996 01:34:56 MDT." <199606090734.BAA05549@fluffy.aros.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 01:43:59 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >This came up on my news server today.. it's a p100, 64mb, 4 scsi drives >on two AHA2940 (one UW) controllers, using the ccd for two of the drives. > >After the syncing disks... message, the computer froze and had to be >hardware reset. > >Any guesses or interpretations? > >-stable (June 1st, the last CTM delta before the .. interesting series of >commits. :) > >Fatal double fault: >eip = 0xf0175aa9 Can you look up the above eip address in the kernel symbol table and tell me what routine it is in? (nm /kernel | sort | more) Thanks. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 01:49:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA09873 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.aros.net (root@shell.aros.net [205.164.111.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA09847 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from angio@localhost) by shell.aros.net (8.7.5/Unknown) id CAA27990; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 02:49:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199606090849.CAA27990@shell.aros.net> Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 02:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606090843.BAA14911@Root.COM> from David Greenman at "Jun 9, 96 01:43:59 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL13 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lo and behold, David Greenman once said: > >Fatal double fault: > >eip = 0xf0175aa9 > > Can you look up the above eip address in the kernel symbol table and tell > me what routine it is in? (nm /kernel | sort | more) Thanks. ... f0175a34 T _cpu_fork f0175abc T _cpu_exit ... -Dave Andersen -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 01:57:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA12385 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA12363 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA14986; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 01:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606090857.BAA14986@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Dave Andersen cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 1996 02:49:30 MDT." <199606090849.CAA27990@shell.aros.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 01:57:40 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Lo and behold, David Greenman once said: > >> >Fatal double fault: >> >eip = 0xf0175aa9 >> >> Can you look up the above eip address in the kernel symbol table and tell >> me what routine it is in? (nm /kernel | sort | more) Thanks. > >... >f0175a34 T _cpu_fork >f0175abc T _cpu_exit Hmmm. It appears that the kernel stack went away during the fork. I don't know for sure what caused that, but there are a few bugs we're working on that might affect the problem. The fixes will be committed to -stable when they're ready. How long had the machine been running before this occured? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 02:26:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA18886 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 02:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.aros.net (root@shell.aros.net [205.164.111.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA18872 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 02:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from angio@localhost) by shell.aros.net (8.7.5/Unknown) id DAA28481; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 03:26:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199606090926.DAA28481@shell.aros.net> Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 03:26:13 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606090857.BAA14986@Root.COM> from David Greenman at "Jun 9, 96 01:57:40 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL13 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lo and behold, David Greenman once said: > Hmmm. It appears that the kernel stack went away during the fork. I don't > know for sure what caused that, but there are a few bugs we're working on > that might affect the problem. The fixes will be committed to -stable when > they're ready. Ahh. Works for me.. thank you. :) > How long had the machine been running before this occured? 2 days, 7 hours. The machine's been under somewhat more heavy load lately than normal (more news volume and feeds). -Dave Andersen -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 03:11:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA01335 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 03:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA01300 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 03:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA23813; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:41:05 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199606091011.TAA23813@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Subject: ctm-114 breaks ppp (limit of 10 tun devices) To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:41:05 +0930 (CST) Cc: davo@katy.apana.org.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL13 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gday. Talking 2.1-stable ctm release 114. the changes to /usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp/os.c, function OpenTunnel(ptun) indicated to me that there can only be tunnel devices from 0->9... its a neat loop, but perhaps it belongs in a obstfucated (that word) code competition. the plain old for loop in previous versions seemed to do the trick just as well and only limited us to 256 tun devices... 10 tun devices is just too small on a 38 port server. also line 150 of /sys/net/if_tun.c should return EBUSY rather than ENXIO... Peter -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Active APANA SA Member --- Author PopWatch + Inf-HTML Email: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au Fax: 61-8-82784742 From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 03:52:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA18461 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 03:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA18254; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 03:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA14387; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:51:32 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA10565; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:51:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA05320; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:21:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199606091021.MAA05320@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Status of -stable To: dave@kachina.jetcafe.org (Dave Hayes) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:21:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, nate@sri.mt.net, stable@freebsd.org, committers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199606090823.BAA20929@kachina.jetcafe.org> from Dave Hayes at "Jun 9, 96 01:23:22 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dave Hayes wrote: > A shorter but hackier way is to do > > rm /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 > ln /usr/lib/libc.so.2.2 /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 > > which is what I did to fix things. But this will always link libc.so.3.0 into all your newly compiled binaries. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 03:57:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA20633 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 03:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA20611 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 03:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id LAA07888; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 11:55:24 +0100 (BST) To: Narvi cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Policy on -stable In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 1996 10:51:33 +0300." Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 11:55:24 +0100 Message-ID: <7886.834317724@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Narvi wrote in message ID : > 1) Shall there be 2 releases based on -stable, like planned before (that > is - 2.1.1-RELEASE and 2.1.5-RELEASE) or just one. -stable has diverged enough from 2.1.0R that the next release is now being called 2.1.5. There will be no 2.1.1 > 2) Shall an attempt be made to find resources (and a full-timer) to keep > -stable (mean a non-active attempt from the part of the core-team > rather than going out and trying to find the money). This very much depends on how much outside contribution we get, and remember, we don't just need a one-off contribution of $xxx, but rather an ongoing stream of contributions otherwise the full-timer won't last long. > 3) If -stable is dropped (as it seems to be more then possible on the > moment) what will be the future policy on -stable-like things? Shall > there be a -stable branch for some time before the release to which only > bug-fixes will be applied? Shall there be a post-relese -stable-like > bug-fix branch? This has yet to be decided as far as I know, and very much depends on the resources available at the time I would think. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 07:23:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA05713 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 07:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA05622; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 07:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA07124; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:22:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199606091422.JAA07124@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: jkh's message of Fri, 07 Jun 1996 16:40:55 -0700. <17086.834190855@time.cdrom.com> X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 09:22:09 -0500 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Non-commercial break during clash of the titans...] Has anyone in this argument ever looked at Aegis as a project management tool? I've only read through the README, but it reportedly does most (all?) of the things that Terry is suggesting. I realize there is quite a legacy here with CVS, but this might still be worth a look. ARCHIVE SITE The latest version of Aegis is available by anonymous FTP from: Host: ftp.nau.edu (134.114.64.90) Dir: /pub/Aegis File: aegis.2.3.tar.Z # the complete source File: aegis.2.3.patch.Z # patch to take 2.2 to 2.3 File: aegis.2.3.ps.Z # PostScript of the User Guide File: aegis.2.3.faq # Frequently Asked Questions From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 07:56:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA15204 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 07:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [206.224.65.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA15122; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA29931; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:54:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob Willcox Message-Id: <199606091454.JAA29931@luke.pmr.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: randy@zyzzyva.com (Randy Terbush) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:54:20 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606091422.JAA07124@sierra.zyzzyva.com> from Randy Terbush at "Jun 9, 96 09:22:09 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Randy Terbush wrote: > > ARCHIVE SITE > The latest version of Aegis is available by anonymous FTP > from: > Host: ftp.nau.edu (134.114.64.90) > Dir: /pub/Aegis > File: aegis.2.3.tar.Z # the complete source > File: aegis.2.3.patch.Z # patch to take 2.2 to 2.3 > File: aegis.2.3.ps.Z # PostScript of the User Guide > File: aegis.2.3.faq # Frequently Asked Questions I did not find the version af aegis that you refer to above at ftp.nau.edu. The higest version number there seems to be 2.2. Is there somewhere else to get version 2.3? Thanks, -- Bob Willcox bob@luke.pmr.com Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 08:26:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA25182 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 08:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solar.os.com (root@solar.os.com [199.232.136.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25163 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 08:25:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiter (jupiter.os.com [199.232.136.66]) by solar.os.com (8.7/8.7.0) with SMTP id LAA04249 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 11:27:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199606091527.LAA04249@solar.os.com> X-Sender: craigs@solar X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 11:23:03 -0400 To: stable@freebsd.org From: craigs@os.com (Craig Shrimpton) Subject: Newbie -stable question Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Folks, I finally have an upgraded system via a successful make world. The one question I have concerns the next sup I do. Do I need to do another make world or is a simple make sufficient for small updates? Thanks, Craig =================================================================== Orbit Internet Email: craigs@os.com 400 Grove Street Phone: (508) 753-8776 Worcester, MA 01605 http://www.os.com/ From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 08:38:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA28726 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 08:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA28668; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 08:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.208]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13989; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 11:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07186; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 11:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 11:35:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: Bob Willcox cc: Randy Terbush , jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606091454.JAA29931@luke.pmr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Bob Willcox wrote: > Randy Terbush wrote: > > > > ARCHIVE SITE > > The latest version of Aegis is available by anonymous FTP > > from: > > Host: ftp.nau.edu (134.114.64.90) > > Dir: /pub/Aegis > > File: aegis.2.3.tar.Z # the complete source > > File: aegis.2.3.patch.Z # patch to take 2.2 to 2.3 > > File: aegis.2.3.ps.Z # PostScript of the User Guide > > File: aegis.2.3.faq # Frequently Asked Questions > > I did not find the version af aegis that you refer to above at > ftp.nau.edu. The higest version number there seems to be 2.2. Is > there somewhere else to get version 2.3? I found it, go look at: ftp.agso.gov.au:/pub/Aegis There's something called "cook" there that is supposed to work with it, you might want to get the latest (1.9) version of that while you're looking (I did). > > Thanks, > -- > Bob Willcox > bob@luke.pmr.com > Austin, TX > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 08:42:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA29969 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 08:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29908; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 08:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA17621; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 10:41:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199606091541.KAA17621@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: Bob Willcox cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-reply-to: bob's message of Sun, 09 Jun 1996 09:54:20 -0500. <199606091454.JAA29931@luke.pmr.com> X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 10:40:58 -0500 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Try ftp.bmr.gov.au:/pub/Aegis Seems his README is a bit out of date. This is not a new project BTW. I seem to recall a 1.0 announcement a couple of years ago. > Randy Terbush wrote: > > > > ARCHIVE SITE > > The latest version of Aegis is available by anonymous FTP > > from: > > Host: ftp.nau.edu (134.114.64.90) > > Dir: /pub/Aegis > > File: aegis.2.3.tar.Z # the complete source > > File: aegis.2.3.patch.Z # patch to take 2.2 to 2.3 > > File: aegis.2.3.ps.Z # PostScript of the User Guide > > File: aegis.2.3.faq # Frequently Asked Questions > > I did not find the version af aegis that you refer to above at > ftp.nau.edu. The higest version number there seems to be 2.2. Is > there somewhere else to get version 2.3? > > Thanks, > -- > Bob Willcox > bob@luke.pmr.com > Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 09:15:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA08293 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solar.os.com (root@solar.os.com [199.232.136.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08288 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiter (jupiter.os.com [199.232.136.66]) by solar.os.com (8.7/8.7.0) with SMTP id MAA04319 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:16:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199606091616.MAA04319@solar.os.com> X-Sender: craigs@solar X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 12:12:28 -0400 To: stable@freebsd.org From: craigs@os.com (Craig Shrimpton) Subject: kernel compile failure (June 8) Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Folks, I got this on a compile of yesterday's kernel: ioconf.o: Undefined symbol '_btintr' referenced from data segment **** Error code 1 Stop. Anyone know where I should look? Thanks, Craig =================================================================== Orbit Internet Email: craigs@os.com 400 Grove Street Phone: (508) 753-8776 Worcester, MA 01605 http://www.os.com/ From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 09:38:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA12914 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12893 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunghole.dunn.org (bunghole.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAB22211; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199606091637.MAB22211@ns2.harborcom.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bradley Dunn" Organization: Harbor Communications To: davidg@Root.COM, Dave Andersen Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:34:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault Reply-to: dunn@dunn.org CC: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FWIW, our news server has been crashing about once a day with this double fault as well. Next time it happens I'll look up the address and forward it on. It was doing this before the mega-commit, so after things got cleaned up I rebuilt but the machine still goes down about once a day, usually during an expire. On 9 Jun 96 at 3:26, Dave Andersen wrote: > Lo and behold, David Greenman once said: > > > Hmmm. It appears that the kernel stack went away during the > > fork. I don't > > know for sure what caused that, but there are a few bugs we're > > working on that might affect the problem. The fixes will be > > committed to -stable when they're ready. > > Ahh. Works for me.. thank you. :) > > > How long had the machine been running before this occured? > > 2 days, 7 hours. The machine's been under somewhat more heavy > load > lately than normal (more news volume and feeds). > > -Dave Andersen Bradley Dunn HarborCom You were expecting a witty saying? From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 13:43:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19521 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 13:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-165.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19467; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00723; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 12:54:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606091054.MAA00723@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.jhs.no_domain: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH version 1.6.5 95 12 11, PGP available In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 1996 17:59:42 PDT." <17510.834195582@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 12:54:39 +0200 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Reference: > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > The question here seems to be "how can we give the users a tree which > always builds", right? Well, that's certainly not a new question. > Even crazed expatriate brits like Julian Stacey have been calling for > that sort of scheme for years! :-) You called ? :-) Re. CVS: I suggest, for future policy, (& not WRT past history :-) ... Anyone who wantonly breaks Current (& forces everyone to need make -i) for more than the duration of a single short commit session, should have his commits backed out, & CVS privelege suspended for 7 days, during which the person is free to meditate on the disruption caused, & to prepare new better tested diffs. After initial rigorous enforcement, only occasional later enforcement would be required. Only exception: After _prior_ posted permission from CVS master, where breaking the tree is certified as really unavoidable. Re. Stable: I suggest boring work is best left to those with a paid incentive. `Stable' is a quasi-professional service: ( A labour intensive mix of some `current' technology plus testing ), & is a burden on unpaid volunteers. So leave boring work to those with a financial incentive, who could be: - External support services that may set up, offering for FreeBSD, services similar to that which Cygnus offers for FSF. - Custom consultantcy & support people or firms. - A FreeBSD Inc. funded `stable' maintenance group if Jordan & co. drum up sufficient funds from commercial users. - If Walnut Creek Inc determine `Stable' to be of financial benefit to WC inc, then those people funded by WC. Serious@freebsd.org is (or was) available, for companies prepared to pay serious commercial amounts of money (upwards of hundreds of dollars I suggest) for commercial support. Such paid work could include Stable maintenance). Personal Disclosure: I am a Unix developer/supporter, with personal & business interests in Releases & Current, but no `Stable' paying customers or hosts. Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 14:35:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24352 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [206.224.65.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24334; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 14:35:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA03062; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:33:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob Willcox Message-Id: <199606092133.QAA03062@luke.pmr.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: randy@zyzzyva.com (Randy Terbush) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:33:11 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606091541.KAA17621@sierra.zyzzyva.com> from Randy Terbush at "Jun 9, 96 10:40:58 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Randy Terbush wrote: > Try ftp.bmr.gov.au:/pub/Aegis > > Seems his README is a bit out of date. Got it! Thanks to all who responded! -- Bob Willcox bob@luke.pmr.com Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 16:30:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA10347 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10316; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA06237; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:27:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Excite for Web Servers on -STABLE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone successfully installed EWS on 2.1-STABLE?? When I run the install script, I get a core dump.. The program includes a perl binary which it extracts locally and then tries to run to continue with the intallation. It's supposed to be BSDI 2.0 binary, so I'm puzzled why it would dump.. TIA, -Mark :%t$sig -- Oops, thought I was in vi.. ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 17:54:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA22524 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA22517 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA16211; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606100054.RAA16211@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dunn@dunn.org cc: Dave Andersen , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 1996 12:34:16 CDT." <199606091637.MAB22211@ns2.harborcom.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 17:54:30 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >FWIW, our news server has been crashing about once a day with this >double fault as well. Next time it happens I'll look up the address >and forward it on. It was doing this before the mega-commit, so after >things got cleaned up I rebuilt but the machine still goes down about >once a day, usually during an expire. Please update your kernel to the "current" -stable. I just reverted the pmap code to what was in 2.1R due to possibly related problems. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 18:43:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04237 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solar.os.com (craigs@solar.os.com [199.232.136.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04224 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from craigs@localhost) by solar.os.com (8.7/8.7.0) id VAA05042; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:45:17 -0400 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:45:16 -0400 From: Craig Shrimpton Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault To: David Greenman cc: dunn@dunn.org, Dave Andersen , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606100054.RAA16211@Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, David Greenman wrote: > > Please update your kernel to the "current" -stable. I just reverted the > pmap code to what was in 2.1R due to possibly related problems. > Also, I'm having a problem with the current kernel as well. It seems I am missing the extern defines for the btintr function in ioconf.c. I need these so my Buslogic 946 will work. What should I do? I can't seem to find the proper include file. It looks like it was defined in bt742a.c but I don't know how I should merge the stuff. Thanks, Craig +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Craig Shrimpton | e-mail: craigs@os.com | | Orbit Systems | information: info@os.com | | Worcester, MA 508.753.8776 | http://www.os.com/ | +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Strategic Systems From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 18:48:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA05637 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05610 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA16413; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606100148.SAA16413@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Craig Shrimpton cc: dunn@dunn.org, Dave Andersen , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 1996 21:45:16 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:48:01 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, David Greenman wrote: > >> >> Please update your kernel to the "current" -stable. I just reverted the >> pmap code to what was in 2.1R due to possibly related problems. >> > >Also, I'm having a problem with the current kernel as well. It seems >I am missing the extern defines for the btintr function in ioconf.c. I >need these so my Buslogic 946 will work. What should I do? I can't seem >to find the proper include file. It looks like it was defined in >bt742a.c but I don't know how I should merge the stuff. The kernel config file (and config binary for that matter) is not compatible between different versions of FreeBSD. You should edit the "GENERIC" config file to suit your specific needs. I believe the above problem is caused by a change in the way that the interrupt is specified for "bt" devices...I think it should look something like: controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector bt_isa_intr -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 18:56:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA08693 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cafu.fl.net.au (root@cafu.fl.net.au [203.63.198.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08645; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cafu.fl.net.au (adf@cafu.fl.net.au [203.63.198.10]) by cafu.fl.net.au (2.0/adf) with SMTP id LAA28479; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:51:54 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:51:54 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Foster To: Mark Mayo cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Excite for Web Servers on -STABLE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > Has anyone successfully installed EWS on 2.1-STABLE?? When I run the > install script, I get a core dump.. > > The program includes a perl binary which it extracts locally and then > tries to run to continue with the intallation. It's supposed to be BSDI > 2.0 binary, so I'm puzzled why it would dump.. It is possible - I'm running it on -stable, however you'll need to do quite a bit of editing of files and basically install it all manually (it does take quite a while and could be tricky if you're not familiar with perl). Thanks, Andrew ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Andrew Foster | BSDNet Australia Co-Ordinator | | adf@fl.net.au | adf@bsdnet.org - http://www.au.bsdnet.org/ | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Jun 9 20:19:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08603 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08519; Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id MAA25619; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:19:04 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:19:04 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Julian H. Stacey" , jkh@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606091054.MAA00723@vector.jhs.no_domain> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 9 Jun 1996, Julian H. Stacey wrote: Regarding stable... > I suggest boring work is best left to those with a paid incentive. > `Stable' is a quasi-professional service: > ( A labour intensive mix of some `current' technology plus testing ), > & is a burden on unpaid volunteers. > So leave boring work to those with a financial incentive, who could be: > - External support services that may set up, offering for > FreeBSD, services similar to that which Cygnus offers for FSF. > - Custom consultantcy & support people or firms. > - A FreeBSD Inc. funded `stable' maintenance group if Jordan & co. > drum up sufficient funds from commercial users. > - If Walnut Creek Inc determine `Stable' to be of financial benefit to > WC inc, then those people funded by WC. Yes, definitely make stable an independently funded service. I think a stable sup subscription sold by WC would work. -mh From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 01:15:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA09575 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA09140; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA18725; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:18:31 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id LAA16906; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:18:22 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199606100818.LAA16906@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: Status of -stable To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:18:19 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jdp@polstra.com, nate@sri.MT.net, stable@freebsd.org, committers@freebsd.org, scanner@webspan.net In-Reply-To: <199606080240.TAA12036@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jun 7, 96 07:40:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello people, just my Andy User's $0.02 ;) # I really don't think that using a different source control system is going # to make any difference. The problem we're faced with is with the source trees # diverging too quickly. No matter what source control system we use, it's still # not going to be able to resolve include-file dependencies, variable name/type # changes, and miscellaneous architectural changes that make merging impossible. # This is a problem with trying to keep a moldy source tree "in sync" with things # happening in -current. It's possible to manage for about the first 3 months, # but when the time approaches 1 year (like it is now), it becomes a bloody # nightmare. Yes, that's obvious. I think the whole idea of having two branches _both_ developed but with different speed is a vaste of human power. (Why did they invented this? I thought...) Why won't you FreeBSD gurus say so: "Ok, here is FreeBSD-XX.XX-release. Now after the release date this source branch will be called '-bug' (minus-one-bug :) and it won't be developed, only obvious bugs easy to fix will probably be fixed. This source branch will be frozen and forgotten at the time when the snapshots of new -release are available for testing. Either you stay alone with whatever is your good-old-FreeBSD, or you go and help us to test snapshots, this way getting some bugfixes -- and probably some inconveniences (read: new bugs :) , too, but this way your'e donating your time for testing. Point." If FreeBSD is free for whoever needs it to be free of $$ charge -- it was declared as such, so probably let it be; but I told you many month ago: with -stable you are dividing the user community and the resources of manpower and time people are ready to spend for those damn tasks like testing -- testing, testing... -- raw BY HALF. I continue thinking it wasn't wise. # # -DG # # David Greenman # Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 01:46:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA22700 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from d210.ndiasb.kiev.ua (d210.ndiasb.kiev.ua [194.44.4.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA22207; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132]) by d210.ndiasb.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA00390; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:46:02 +0300 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19216; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:45:29 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id LAA17470; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:45:29 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199606100845.LAA17470@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:45:24 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com, grog@lemis.de, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at Jun 8, 96 12:53:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, # 2) Couldn't maintaining of stable look like: # a) The core team suggest that it would be nice if somebody would # bring feature x over to -stable. if the feature mentioned is "new" -- than -stable can't be officially called "stable" any more. If it isn't -- why waste time of those great guys who are making FreeBSD? Donate your own time to do testing if you want to get more features, isn't it Ok? -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 01:53:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA25883 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA25465; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA11691 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:44:44 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 10 Jun 96 11:44:43 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00526; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:32:31 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199606100832.MAA00526@astral.msk.su> Subject: Re: Status of -stable To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:32:31 +0400 (MSD) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jdp@polstra.com, nate@sri.MT.net, stable@freebsd.org, committers@freebsd.org, scanner@webspan.net In-Reply-To: <199606100818.LAA16906@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> from "Andrew V. Stesin" at "Jun 10, 96 11:18:19 am" From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, that's obvious. I think the whole idea of having two > branches _both_ developed but with different speed is a vaste > of human power. (Why did they invented this? I thought...) I completely agree here. -current must be "stable" as in good old days. Many interesting things commited to -current long time ago never appearse into -stable (for various reasons). If this line will be continued, they never be released at all. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 07:00:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA14857 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA14486; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 06:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA09703; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:55:00 +0300 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:54:59 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606100845.LAA17470@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk CC list trimmed a bit... On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Andrew V. Stesin wrote: > Hi, > > # 2) Couldn't maintaining of stable look like: > # a) The core team suggest that it would be nice if somebody would > # bring feature x over to -stable. > > if the feature mentioned is "new" -- than -stable can't be > officially called "stable" any more. If it isn't -- why waste > time of those great guys who are making FreeBSD? Donate your > own time to do testing if you want to get more > features, isn't it Ok? The whole idea of this statement was quite simple I think - that the core-team wouldn't waste their time on -stable, but would just suggest that a given feature (I don't mean this kernel or userland patch or other) should be brought over to -stable. After which the person (or persons) would do it in their own time. The things wouldn't be new (but already somewhat tested out in -current) and certainly nothing would be commited before it has been tested out. Sander > > -- > > With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. > > +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 > > "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." > Frank's Management Rule #1. > From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 07:34:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA00323 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from novell.com (prv-ums.Provo.Novell.COM [137.65.40.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA00237; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INET-PRV-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:34:36 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:40:12 -0600 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Ahhhhhhhhhh! Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There is too much noise, I think I need a straight jacket! I came back to my email from the weekend, and I had over 400 hundred emails. All this is just two days! Most are from the FreeBSD mailing lists. I can't keep up with this! There needs to be a better way. I must admit some of my problems with managing my email are due to the tools I am unfortunately forced to use. (Hey Terry, remember GroupWise under Unix?) For those of you who have not experienced GroupWise, take my recommendation DON'T! What are the thoughts on breaking this stuff out of mail lists and into news groups? (At least there I can use kill files to eliminate the noise.) Or, must I suffer this fate? Any suggestions on how to manage this much email? Jordan, how do you deal with all this traffic? Thanks for letting me make some noise about the noise. Darren From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 07:51:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA10224 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA10215; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id HAA22754; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA28288; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:41:11 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id RAA11918; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:41:11 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199606101441.RAA11918@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:41:10 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at Jun 10, 96 04:54:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk # # CC list trimmed a bit... # Thanks, sorry, I didn't mention. # > if the feature mentioned is "new" -- than -stable can't be # > officially called "stable" any more. If it isn't -- why waste # > time of those great guys who are making FreeBSD? Donate your # > own time to do testing if you want to get more # > features, isn't it Ok? # # The whole idea of this statement was quite simple I think - that the # core-team wouldn't waste their time on -stable, but would just suggest # that a given feature (I don't mean this kernel or userland patch or # other) should be brought over to -stable. After which the person (or # persons) would do it in their own time. The things wouldn't be new (but # already somewhat tested out in -current) and certainly nothing would be # commited before it has been tested out. No, I meant that anything more than a "simple bugfixes" as a post-release branch will take way more efforts from the men who are actually taking care of that source tree. What for if nobody pays? This isn't "fun", as many persons already mentioned. And if you, an me, and whoever else, overall -- more than a half of the FreeBSD user community, 2/3 probably -- will spend time on backporting features from -current to "stable", who on the Earth will do a thorough testing of -current itself? The overall progress of FreeBSD will be slowed down, 'cause no way for -current to become really stable and clean until "-stable" is alive. That's what I meant. -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 07:56:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA10915 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ulantris.infinop.com (root@ulantris.infinop.com [205.230.144.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA10906; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from john@localhost) by ulantris.infinop.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA20671; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:58:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "John A. Booth" Message-Id: <199606101458.JAA20671@ulantris.infinop.com> Subject: Re: mail overload. To: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:58:51 -0500 (CDT) Cc: questions@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Darren Davis" at Jun 10, 96 08:40:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What are the thoughts on breaking this stuff out of mail lists and into > news groups? (At least there I can use kill files to eliminate the noise.) There are news groups or is a newsgroup. My personal feeling is news takes too long to propagate. I get much better response to the mailing lists--I'm more apt to read a mailing list than a news group. If I don't think the subject applies I delete the messages w/o reading it. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 08:05:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA12447 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from novell.com (sjf-ums.sjf.novell.com [130.57.10.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA12426; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INET-SJF-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:02:34 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:10:30 -0700 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: DARREND@novell.com, john@ulantris.infinop.com Cc: questions@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mail overload. - Reply Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> John A. Booth 6/10 8:58am >>> There are news groups or is a newsgroup. My personal feeling is news takes too long to propagate. I get much better response to the mailing lists--I'm more apt to read a mailing list than a news group. If I don't think the subject applies I delete the messages w/o reading it. >>> Yea, I am aware of the newsgroup, but I was hoping for multiple newsgroups that mirror the maillists. I do the same thing, deleting messages by subject. Unfortunately, I still have to do them one at a time. I just can't say delete all the messages with a given subject. I guess this is not viewed as an email like thing, but more like a news thing. This still takes up alot of time. Darren From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 08:28:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA16104 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nevis.oss.uswest.net (nevis.oss.uswest.net [204.147.85.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16097 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from greg@localhost) by nevis.oss.uswest.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA17379 for stable@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:27:49 -0500 From: "Greg Rowe" Message-Id: <9606101027.ZM17377@nevis.oss.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:27:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1-960606-SNAP is out." (Jun 7, 10:22pm) References: <10392.834211333@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1-960606-SNAP is out. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan, Do you have an approximate date for the 2.1.5-RELEASE CD. We just made a decision last week to start running our Tier 2 cities (smaller cities) on FreeBSD systems beginning around July 1st. I like to run all my production systems on "Release" code since most are at dark sites. Thanks. Greg Rowe On Jun 7, 10:22pm, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Subject: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1-960606-SNAP is out. > And the subject pretty much says it all... > > See: > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1-960606-SNAP/RELNOTES.TXT > > for important information before installing this thing! > > This is the first SNAPshot made along the 2.1-STABLE branch, for those > who were wondering, and is a prelude to the anticipated 2.1.5-RELEASE. > It's being released for TESTING purposes and any additional > convenience you may derive from it is entirely accidental. :-) > > Have fun! > > Jordan > > P.S. No, I don't have an exact release date for 2.1.5-RELEASE yet. > That's going to depend largely on what kinds of problems you find in > this SNAPshot! :-) >-- End of excerpt from Jordan K. Hubbard -- Greg Rowe | U S West - Interact Services | INTERNET greg@uswest.net 111 Washington Ave. South | Fax: (612) 672-8537 Minneapolis, MN USA 55401 | Voice: (612) 672-8535 Never trust an operating system you don't have source for.... From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 08:40:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA18129 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usa.nai.net (usa.nai.net [204.71.21.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18086; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chris.nai.net (chris.nai.net [204.71.21.7]) by usa.nai.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA21780; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:36:52 -0400 Message-ID: <31BC4136.2386@nai.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:37:26 -0400 From: Chris Lukas Reply-To: chris@usa.nai.net Organization: NAI X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jaye Mathisen CC: Paul Traina , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What about... was: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > I think Paul's analysis vastly oversimplifies the issue. Anybody could > take a CD, and offer it at a cheaper price. Doesn't mean they'll sell > enough of them to dent walnut creek. > > Perhaps WC could stick a sticker on the box that says "Some amount of > money from this sale goes to furthering development". > > Or a higher-priced subscription plan. > > Or how about selling access to an "exclusive" mailing list, that is shared > with the developers? > > I would pay money if my technical issue questions, as opposed to generic > "anybody seen a ...." questions were sent directly to the developers, and > I *knew* that it was followed by the developers. Even if not acted upon. > ... > Too many times, I see the hardcore developers talk about avoiding reading > the lists, because it consumes too much time... I'd pay to be on a list > that they would always attempt to read... > > Or tie the mailing list in with a higher priced FreeBSD subscription plan. > > The bean-counters here have a hard time with "donation", but wouldn't > blink 2x if it was called a "support list", or whatever. It would be no > different than purchasing a Mickey Soft Developer Network subscription. ... > Frankly, a paid subscription list may work better for the developers > anyway. Somebody's paying money to be on the list, the implication being > that they think enough of the product to pay for the list, so it would > behoove a developer to at least take a gander at the issue/problem, in > order to keep the $$$'s rolling in that would hopefully pay somebody else > to do menial work that the developer is currently having to do, instead of > hacking on FreeBSD. > I wholeheartedly agree. I actually find it difficult to base my business on a product that some is NOT making money on. Who is going to run the paid subscription list, and do the developers agree? (reverse order). Chris Lukas From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 08:54:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA20294 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from quimby.os2bbs.com (quimby.os2bbs.com [204.194.180.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20287 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winterg.spawar.navy.mil by quimby.os2bbs.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.14/1.0) for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; id AA3278; Mon, 10 Jun 96 11:52:25 -0400 Message-Id: <.AA3278@quimby.os2bbs.com> X-Sender: winterg@mail.os2bbs.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, craigs@os.com (Craig Shrimpton) From: winterg@os2bbs.com (Gib Winter) Subject: Re: kernel compile failure (June 8) Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had the same problem, you need to change the line for the bt0 controller in the Kernel configuration file. The old line used btintr - change it to bt_isa_intr as show below: controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector bt_isa_intr Gib ___________________________________________________________________________ You wrote: >I got this on a compile of yesterday's kernel: > >ioconf.o: Undefined symbol '_btintr' referenced from data segment >**** Error code 1 > >Stop. > >Anyone know where I should look? From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 08:55:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA20367 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA20358; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id IAA24333; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA10857; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:48:23 +0300 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:48:23 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606101441.RAA11918@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Andrew V. Stesin wrote: > # > # CC list trimmed a bit... > # > Thanks, sorry, I didn't mention. > > # > if the feature mentioned is "new" -- than -stable can't be > # > officially called "stable" any more. If it isn't -- why waste > # > time of those great guys who are making FreeBSD? Donate your > # > own time to do testing if you want to get more > # > features, isn't it Ok? > # > # The whole idea of this statement was quite simple I think - that the > # core-team wouldn't waste their time on -stable, but would just suggest > # that a given feature (I don't mean this kernel or userland patch or > # other) should be brought over to -stable. After which the person (or > # persons) would do it in their own time. The things wouldn't be new (but > # already somewhat tested out in -current) and certainly nothing would be > # commited before it has been tested out. > > No, I meant that anything more than a "simple bugfixes" as a > post-release branch will take way more efforts from the men who > are actually taking care of that source tree. What for if nobody > pays? This isn't "fun", as many persons already mentioned. > > And if you, an me, and whoever else, overall -- more than a > half of the FreeBSD user community, 2/3 probably -- will spend > time on backporting features from -current to "stable", who on the > Earth will do a thorough testing of -current itself? > The overall progress of FreeBSD will be slowed down, 'cause > no way for -current to become really stable and clean until "-stable" > is alive. > > That's what I meant. Sure. My approach is the "conservative" one. If that what I suggested would be called a rule system, then there surely was a rule for the case -stable didn't move on fast enough. And it will move fast enough only if there are people *willing* to deal -stable. -stable can't and never will replace -current (at least IMHO). But anything released surely should be stable... Sander > > -- > > With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. > > +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 > > "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." > Frank's Management Rule #1. > From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 09:42:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23867 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23846; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA16872 ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:41:57 -0700 Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23011; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606101638.JAA23011@precipice.shockwave.com> To: chris@usa.nai.net cc: Jaye Mathisen , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What about... was: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:37:26 EDT." <31BC4136.2386@nai.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:38:18 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Chris Lukas Subject: Re: What about... was: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD >>, Inc. I wholeheartedly agree. I actually find it difficult to base my business on a product that some is NOT making money on. Who is going to run the paid subscription list, and do the developers agree? (reverse order). Chris Lukas http://www.bsdi.com/ We already have one paid-support BSD unix, and it happens to be a pretty good one at that. I don't see the need to make a "Not-So-Free-BSD". It's a pretty poor business model to support FreeBSD, because 85% of your potential revenue stream will try to screw you. BSDI controls this by selling licenses on a per-CPU basis. Cygnus controls this by incorporating fixes into FSF versions of code slower than they incorporate into their own code (which is, again, licensed). Paul From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 10:18:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25738 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.internet.com (yipee-p.internet.com [198.183.190.115]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25732; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oneida.internet.com (oneida.internet.com [198.183.190.138]) by mail.internet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16981; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from reichert@localhost) by oneida.internet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA27079; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:18:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Reichert Message-Id: <199606101718.NAA27079@oneida.internet.com> Subject: Re: Ahhhhhhhhhh! To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: reichert@internet.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) > > There is too much noise, I think I need a straight jacket! > > I came back to my email from the weekend, and I had over 400 hundred emails. > All this is just two days! Most are from the FreeBSD mailing lists. > I can't keep up with this! There needs to be a better way. I must admit > some of my problems with managing my email are due to the tools I am unfortunately > forced to use. (Hey Terry, remember GroupWise under Unix?) For those > of you who have not experienced GroupWise, take my recommendation DON'T! > > What are the thoughts on breaking this stuff out of mail lists and into > news groups? (At least there I can use kill files to eliminate the noise.) > Or, must I suffer this fate? Any suggestions on how to manage this much > email? Jordan, how do you deal with all this traffic? Actaally, I've got a mail-list management issue that is certainly interesting: Long ago, I took to using procmail to break out my mail upon delivery to various folders. I noted that several times _daily_ that procmail was dropping core. Well, I hacked procmail to requeue the mail upon a segfault, and after a few days, guess what I found? Seventy-nine mail messages from hackers, bugs, and stable ! I haven't gone pawing through debuggers to see what the issue is, but will have to if I want my mail to be delivered. Have anyone else seen wierd behaviour from this? I note that even with with all of the debugging stuff turned on, the resulting core file died way out in a library somewhere... For what it's worth, I'm running 2.1R and procmail v3.10. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 10:19:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25872 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25867 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solar.os.com (solar.os.com [199.232.136.65]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id KAA26557 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiter (jupiter.os.com [199.232.136.66]) by solar.os.com (8.7/8.7.0) with SMTP id NAA05738 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:20:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199606101720.NAA05738@solar.os.com> X-Sender: craigs@solar X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:15:53 -0400 To: stable@freebsd.org From: craigs@os.com (Craig Shrimpton) Subject: New kernel error in messages, is it important? Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Folks, I just upgraded to the latest stable and I'm getting this in /var/log/messages. /kernel: bt: unit number (1) too high /kernel: bt1: not found at 0x330 My config file has the following defined: controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector bt_isa_intr My bt0 is at 0x330 irq 11 dma 5 and it seems to work fine. Perhaps this is a message I can ignore? Or, is there a correction? Thanks, -Craig =================================================================== Orbit Internet Email: craigs@os.com 400 Grove Street Phone: (508) 753-8776 Worcester, MA 01605 http://www.os.com/ From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 10:26:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA26437 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.bios.unc.edu (onyx.bios.unc.edu [152.2.94.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26430 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from walter@localhost) by onyx.bios.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA10705; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:25:55 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:25:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Walter To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: about the -stable issues... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello all! Here's my .02... 1) I love FreeBSD and would like to see donations go directly to the developers for their efforts. I'll always buy Release level CD's because I need the machines in a production environment, but let's face it, there's much more work for the major-commit people than just keeping the -stable and RELEASE trees in order. There should *POSITIVELY* be a way of getting funding to these guys without cdrom grabbing a cut from it. I for one would love to donate to the people doing the work. I'm used to dealing with Sun, where things take forever to get fixed and response from the developers is nil. This is FreeBSD's strength in my opinion and I think most people should be willing to pay for it. 2) Shouldn't the -stable list be about *running* -stable instead of supporting the work for -stable? I know this is a big issue, but I've been getting like 100 messages per day and it's killing me! ======================================================================== || Bruce Walter || CB #7400 McGavran-Greenberg Hall || || Information Technology Support || Chapel Hill, NC 27599-7400 || || Department of Biostatistics || Tel: 919-966-7279 || || University of North Carolina || Fax: 919-966-3804 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 10:49:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA27952 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hod.tera.com (hod.tera.com [206.215.142.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27944 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [206.215.142.62]) by hod.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19715; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:47:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA16230; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606101747.KAA16230@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1-960606-SNAP is out. To: greg@uswest.net (Greg Rowe) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9606101027.ZM17377@nevis.oss.uswest.net> from Greg Rowe at "Jun 10, 96 10:27:49 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Greg Rowe: [[ ... ]] > > > > P.S. No, I don't have an exact release date for 2.1.5-RELEASE yet. > > That's going to depend largely on what kinds of problems you find in > > this SNAPshot! :-) > >-- End of excerpt from Jordan K. Hubbard > We're all looking forward to the next CD release. Hope it won't take long to get that manufactured and stocked for sale. I'm ready to pay thr $40 and toss my $25 in the co-op kitty to help support this kind of exceptional development project. gary kline > > > Never trust an operating system you don't have source for.... > Precisely. -g > From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 11:15:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29498 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29487; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id IAA16793; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:12:21 -1000 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:12:21 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199606101812.IAA16793@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) "Re: mail overload. - Reply" (Jun 10, 8:10am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: questions@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mail overload. - Reply Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } >>> John A. Booth 6/10 8:58am >>> } There are news groups or is a newsgroup. My personal feeling is news takes } too long to propagate. I get much better response to the mailing lists--I'm } more apt to read a mailing list than a news group. If I don't think the } subject applies I delete the messages w/o reading it. } } } >>> Yea, I am aware of the newsgroup, but I was hoping for multiple newsgroups } that mirror the maillists. I do the same thing, deleting messages by subject. } Unfortunately, I still have to do them one at a time. I just can't say } delete all the messages with a given subject. I guess this is not viewed } as an email like thing, but more like a news thing. This still takes } up alot of time. Most news software has the ability to turn mail into a local pseudo-moderated newsgroup. So you can have it both ways. You do have to change the list target at your site to something different than your personal mailbox so you can alias it separately. Or you might try Netscape for reading you mail. Last time I looked it was supposed to have the ability to thread mail messages. Richard From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 11:42:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01719 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from macbeth.ienet.com (macbeth.ienet.com [207.78.32.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01714 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brutus.ienet.com (brutus.ienet.com [207.78.32.152]) by macbeth.ienet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24297; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31BC6DEE.1F57@ienet.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:48:14 -0700 From: Terry Lee Organization: Internet Design Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Andersen CC: davidg@Root.COM, jkh@time.cdrom.com, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. References: <199606080841.CAA31119@terra.aros.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dave Andersen wrote: > 1) Credit cards for donations. > > Someone mentioned a few (dozen) messages ago that they weren't aware > of an easy way to donate to FreeBSD, Inc. It's apparent in the web > pages, but frankly, I would bet that human laziness is a large factor > here. I totally agree. Another factor is just ignorance. I didn't even know you could contribute to FreeBSD. I should think this should be one of the main lines on the front of home page. > Would it be possible for W.C., Inc. to provide facilities for FreeBSD, > Inc. to accept donations via credit card? Frankly, I'll be the first in > line to send in a $25 donation for one of the servers I have littering > the floor here. (Yes, that's a promise). I think that something along > these lines, if it's not too difficult for W.C. to do, would be a huge > contribution to FreeBSD. This would be great. I think a lot of us are just too busy to think about putting a check in the mail. If it were as simple as filling out a web form page, I think people would be much more inclined to do it. Also, there was mention of non-profit status. I think it would be time and money well spent to make it so that contributions were tax deductible. This would prove to be a major incentive for corporations like us to contribute funds, and more funds. -- I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 611 W. 6th St., Ste. 3201, Los Angeles, CA 90017 G R O U P 213.488.6100 voice 213.488.6101 fax http://www.mall.net mailto:terryl@ienet.com From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 11:44:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01950 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01945; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA04000; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:43:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606101843.LAA04000@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mail overload. - Reply To: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:43:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: DARREND@novell.com, john@ulantris.infinop.com, questions@FreeBSD.org, stable@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Darren Davis" at Jun 10, 96 08:10:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>> John A. Booth 6/10 8:58am >>> > There are news groups or is a newsgroup. My personal feeling is news takes > too long to propagate. I get much better response to the mailing lists--I'm > more apt to read a mailing list than a news group. If I don't think the > subject applies I delete the messages w/o reading it. > > > >>> Yea, I am aware of the newsgroup, but I was hoping for multiple newsgroups > that mirror the maillists. I do the same thing, deleting messages by subject. > Unfortunately, I still have to do them one at a time. I just can't say > delete all the messages with a given subject. I guess this is not viewed > as an email like thing, but more like a news thing. This still takes > up alot of time. It is fairly easy to set up a two stage filter with "procmail" (or elm's "filter" program, which seems to be in disrepute). You can use that to set up an awk script that greps subject/source/author and then basically do a "kill-file" by awking your kill list into an input filter for procmail/filter. If you are stuck with GroupWise, with no hope, then it's possible to gateway the lists to local news groups (there are several people who have said they were doing this at one time or another on the -hackers list). To do this, you will have to set up a subscribed list gateway on the UNIX system acting as a news server. The lists get mailed there and copied to the news groups by the gateway. Be sure and implement: Not: list news list news | | |\ /| v v | X | O O |/ \| |\ /| vv vv | X | O O |/ \| | | vv vv v v O O news list | | v v news list To avoid loops, if you gateway local postings back to the mailing lists. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 11:45:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA02102 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.cts.com (mailhub.cts.com [192.188.72.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02096 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.cts.com(really [198.68.174.34]) by mailhub.cts.com via smail with esmtp id for ; Mon, 10 Jun 96 11:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.1.92 1996-Mar-19 #3 built 1996-Apr-21) Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA01201; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199606101845.LAA01201@io.cts.com> Subject: Re: mail overload. To: john@ulantris.infinop.com (John A. Booth) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606101458.JAA20671@ulantris.infinop.com> from "John A. Booth" at "Jun 10, 96 09:58:51 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John A. Booth writes: > > What are the thoughts on breaking this stuff out of mail lists and into > > news groups? (At least there I can use kill files to eliminate the noise.) > There are news groups or is a newsgroup. My personal feeling is > news takes too long to propagate. I get much better response to the mailing > lists--I'm more apt to read a mailing list than a news group. If I don't > think the subject applies I delete the messages w/o reading it. I agree that there is way too much chatter here. I used to follow the other FreeBSD major mailing lists (-current, -question, and -hackers) but for the same reasons, the avalanche of e-mail made it impossible to hunt down those important announcements about tree changes, sup servers, etc. With the recent tree hosing on May 31, I was urged to join this -stable mailing list so that I can stay informed of issues that most affect maintaining a -stable system. I hoped to do this without having to dig through another 40 messages everyday to find the gems. Discussions about whether -stable should stay or go, or -current should become what we think of as -stable, etc., or how commercial users ought to donate money to FreeBSD, Inc., etc., are certainly important. But I think they should have their own place, like a freebsd-planning (or -policy, or -harangue, or -etc) list. --Morgan From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 14:48:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00199 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00167; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04640; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:47:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606102147.OAA04640@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mail overload. - Reply To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:47:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: questions@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606101812.IAA16793@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Jun 10, 96 08:12:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Most news software has the ability to turn mail into a local pseudo-moderated > newsgroup. So you can have it both ways. You do have to change the > list target at your site to something different than your personal mailbox > so you can alias it separately. > > Or you might try Netscape for reading you mail. Last time I looked it > was supposed to have the ability to thread mail messages. I think this depends on message ID's and in-response-to headers. I think that gatewaying to a local group for distribution at the central mailing list site would *greatly* aid indexability of the archives, which are not terrible useful as they stand. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 15:37:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA08560 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA08553 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA20979; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:37:20 -0700 (PDT) To: "Greg Rowe" cc: stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1-960606-SNAP is out. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:27:49 CDT." <9606101027.ZM17377@nevis.oss.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:37:19 -0700 Message-ID: <20976.834446239@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan, > Do you have an approximate date for the 2.1.5-RELEASE CD. We just made a > decision last week to start running our Tier 2 cities (smaller cities) on > FreeBSD systems beginning around July 1st. I like to run all my production > systems on "Release" code since most are at dark sites. Thanks. It's all down to how long it takes various developers to get their final merges of interest into the tree. I'd like to call a halt to such work around the 20th of June, doing the final integration and release work for a target release date of June 30th. Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 16:00:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA13701 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA13691 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA21139; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:00:20 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lee cc: Dave Andersen , davidg@Root.COM, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:48:14 PDT." <31BC6DEE.1F57@ienet.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:00:20 -0700 Message-ID: <21137.834447620@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Also, there was mention of non-profit status. I think it would be time and > money well spent to make it so that contributions were tax deductible. This > would prove to be a major incentive for corporations like us to contribute > funds, and more funds. Just to clarify this once more: If there were enough money coming in to offset the headache of the additional bookkeeping, I'd do it (and if I do, anyone who's donated in the last 24 months can get a back-dated tax donation credit - I checked this out). However, we need to get over the threshold first! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 16:09:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA15871 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA15858 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.7.5/Unknown) with ESMTP id RAA20173; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA11729; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:09:39 -0600 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199606102309.RAA11729@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:09:39 -0600 (MDT) Cc: terryl@ienet.com, angio@aros.net, davidg@Root.COM, stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <21137.834447620@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jun 10, 96 04:00:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does the additional bookkeeping headache also apply to credit cards, or is that out of the ballpark in general? Obviously, W.C. or whomever was providing the credit card service would get a bit of the money to pay for their effort, but I still believe it would increase the donation volume considerably. Lo and behold, Jordan K. Hubbard once said: > > > Also, there was mention of non-profit status. I think it would be time and > > money well spent to make it so that contributions were tax deductible. This > > would prove to be a major incentive for corporations like us to contribute > > funds, and more funds. > > Just to clarify this once more: If there were enough money coming in > to offset the headache of the additional bookkeeping, I'd do it (and > if I do, anyone who's donated in the last 24 months can get a > back-dated tax donation credit - I checked this out). However, we > need to get over the threshold first! :-) > > Jordan > -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 16:56:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA25534 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmission.xmission.com (softweyr@xmission.xmission.com [198.60.22.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA25513 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from softweyr@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) id RAA07382; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:56:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Barnacle Wes Message-Id: <199606102356.RAA07382@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: Newbie -stable question To: craigs@os.com (Craig Shrimpton) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Cc: stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606091527.LAA04249@solar.os.com> from "Craig Shrimpton" at Jun 9, 96 11:23:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I finally have an upgraded system via a successful make world. The one > question I have concerns the next sup I do. Do I need to do another make > world or is a simple make sufficient for small updates? Cool. Between all of the instability in -stable recently, and the fact that I spent last week moving into a new house, I've not supped in quite a while. I've always done a 'make world' after supping a new -stable update. If you get definitive answers about how much you have to build, please forward them to me (or this list). I'm soon going to finish some documentation on how to update to -stable, and would like to add some hints about keeping stable at the end. -- Wes Peters | Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late Softweyr | The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder Consulting | I'm an over forty victim of fate... softweyr@xmission.com | Jimmy Buffett From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 16:57:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA25566 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA25553; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21160; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:56:57 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id BAA23451; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:56:13 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.4/keltia-uucp-2.8) id BAA08147; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:19:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199606102319.BAA08147@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Ahhhhhhhhhh! To: reichert@internet.com Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:19:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606101718.NAA27079@oneida.internet.com> from Brian Reichert at "Jun 10, 96 01:18:15 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2093 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Brian Reichert said: > For what it's worth, I'm running 2.1R and procmail v3.10. Throw away (very far) 3.10 and only use 3.11pre3 or 3.11pre4 (I don't know of any more recent). No core dump. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #8: Sat Jun 8 15:07:49 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 17:29:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA29010 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA28976; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA03602; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:38:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: Darren Davis cc: hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ahhhhhhhhhh! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Darren Davis wrote: > There is too much noise, I think I need a straight jacket! > > I came back to my email from the weekend, and I had over 400 hundred emails. > All this is just two days! Most are from the FreeBSD mailing lists. > I can't keep up with this! There needs to be a better way. I must admit > some of my problems with managing my email are due to the tools I am unfortunately > forced to use. (Hey Terry, remember GroupWise under Unix?) For those > of you who have not experienced GroupWise, take my recommendation DON'T! > > What are the thoughts on breaking this stuff out of mail lists and into > news groups? (At least there I can use kill files to eliminate the noise.) > Or, must I suffer this fate? Any suggestions on how to manage this much > email? Jordan, how do you deal with all this traffic? > > Thanks for letting me make some noise about the noise. > > Darren > > > > How about giving procmail a shot? _M "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 17:55:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA02104 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tetsuo.communique.net (Tetsuo.Communique.Net [204.27.64.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02097 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jav.communique.net (Kai.Communique.Net [204.27.126.44]) by tetsuo.communique.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA50412; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:55:27 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:55:26 -0500 () From: Jacques Vidrine To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lee , Dave Andersen , davidg@Root.COM, stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-Reply-To: <21137.834447620@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: nectar@mail.communique.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, so what's enough money? Let's say that one could come up with an answer. Then take pledges ... when the pledges get there, then get the bookkeeping done, and collect on the pledges! Am I being naive? Jacques Vidrine Communique, Inc. On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Just to clarify this once more: If there were enough money coming in > to offset the headache of the additional bookkeeping, I'd do it (and > if I do, anyone who's donated in the last 24 months can get a > back-dated tax donation credit - I checked this out). However, we > need to get over the threshold first! :-) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 18:14:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04314 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04309 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA18778; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606110114.SAA18778@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Jacques Vidrine cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Terry Lee , Dave Andersen , stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:55:26 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:14:05 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >OK, so what's enough money? > >Let's say that one could come up with an answer. Then take pledges ... >when the pledges get there, then get the bookkeeping done, and collect on >the pledges! > >Am I being naive? Off the top of my head, I'd say >$10K/year is the threshold...but Jordan might have other ideas. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 18:48:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09138 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09133 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA22234; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:48:07 -0700 (PDT) To: Jacques Vidrine cc: Terry Lee , Dave Andersen , stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:55:26 CDT." Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:48:06 -0700 Message-ID: <22231.834457686@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > OK, so what's enough money? > > Let's say that one could come up with an answer. Then take pledges ... > when the pledges get there, then get the bookkeeping done, and collect on > the pledges! Ummm. Forgive me, but this is all moving just a little too fast for me.. :-) I think that in all of our enthusiasm of talking about money and user- supported services, we've skipped some really important steps along the way and are currently headed straight for grief. What is everyone paying for here, exactly? Why are we collecting this money? What exactly are we going to do with it? How much do we need? These are all questions we should be asking BEFORE we ask "how do we collect it?" since that is, in fact, the LAST question we should be asking. I really don't just want a bunch of people to drop money into a bank account without clearing this stuff up first. Sure, a few checks will already be arriving just due to the fund-raising noise that's been made so far, and that's fine - they'll be duly deposited into the account in hopes that many more will join them and we'll be able to do Good Things(tm) with all that money. However, before we start putting in "click here to charge your VISA" buttons on web pages and getting WC involved, I must insist that we come to some collective decisions about which goals are realistic and which are not, what services the users can expect to be provided, so on and so forth. Everyone's very eager to get right into things, and I respect that, but let's not let our enthusiasm color our judgement here or we'll blow our shot entirely (and I've seen it happen). Here are my thoughts on a possible future scenario: I've previously stated that FreeBSD, Inc. could be turned non-profit in the future with a 2-year backdating of donations, something which looked attractive at the outset but I'm now beginning to have some serious reservations about doing. I think FreeBSD, Inc. has to stick to tangible services for now or its lack of non-profit status will simply work against it, rather than working to its potential advantage. Yes, being a for-profit company *does* have certain advantages and it was, in fact, always our intent to create two organizations, one non-profit and the other for-profit. I simply created the latter first due to the far lesser degree of headache involved. A non-profit company has to be _extremely careful_ about the kinds of "business" it engages in or the IRS will yank that status away faster than you can say "deficit spending." It would be impossible, for example, to provide paid tech-support with a non-profit org (this is what my corporate lawyer says and I'm going to believe him, so you armchair paralegals out there can keep the counter-arguments to yourselves :-). Since starting the freebsd.org entity for those who really do need the tax write-off is also going to cost some money, I guess FreeBSD, Inc. can try to do some immediate fund raising for bootstrapping the creation of FreeBSD.org and perhaps giving it enough money to get its first newsletter out (which would be absolutely crucial to generating more dues-paying members!). I'd like to think of the model of FreeBSD.org as being similar to the USENIX organization - paid dues, regular and professionally produced newsletters and a conference a year once that seems warranted. FreeBSD, Inc. can then focus on the areas in which people would like to have some sort of paid hand-holding and/or special project work done. In the short term, I could pay people on a consulting basis to man the special support mailing lists and/or do custom project work. I'd also like to evolve FreeBSD, Inc's model as something close to Cygnus Support's. It wouldn't hold back any proprietary changes to FreeBSD, nor would it be considered to be engaged in proprietary work in general, it would simply offer some sort of more or less guaranteed response (within the limits already set by industry :-) to problems or give you a place to go if you needed something done specific to your individual needs. Maybe the users don't want tech support and it'll turn out that the non-profit side of this should be created sooner rather than later (with FreeBSD, Inc. placed into mothballs after making a donation of all its assets to FreeBSD.org), but that'll all have to come out of the discussions. Since I think we've also received more than enough debate on the -stable list concerning this topic, I'd like to ask that you please NOT continue the discussion there. If you've some specific suggestions to make concerning how you'd see this working, please send them to me personally and I'll raise them in our core group. We in the core group also need to discuss this a fair bit since it's been, as I said, a "sleeper" issue up to now and we haven't really given it a lot of in-depth thought. Give us some time to react to all this, please, don't just send us so much email about it that we spend all of our time reading the email and not discussing what we're going to do! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 18:55:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09539 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09521 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA16483; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:54:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199606110154.TAA16483@rover.village.org> To: John Polstra Subject: Re: Status of -stable Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 06 Jun 1996 08:36:10 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:54:49 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Well, I liked -stable too! Are you sure you're not over-reacting to : the recent nightmare? That pesky post-traumatic stress syndrome thing? : Hey, in time, the night sweats and flashbacks will pass. :-) OK. I've read all the posts in -hackers and -stable on this. I'm only sending this to -stable. I like the idea of -stable where you have MAJOR bugfixes only. That's it. No mega-commits. No trying to get neat new features. Only security holes, core dumps, data corruption and kernel panic fixed. The current -stable branch has been good for me in that it is 2.1R + a few good patches. I'd be happy with that. Something that you'd have to SUP once or maybe twice a month to keep current would be ideal. Wanna commit anything else: Tough. Use -current. This is somewhat of a hard line, I know, but it would mirror well what standard practice in the industry is. I agree that the current -stable branch has gotten way out of hand and nothing like it should continue to exist in the post-2.1.5 world. Once 2.2 is out, it might be a good idea to have something like this around, but only with a much more restricted scope. Looking at the logs, I'd restrict the patches to about 1/10th their current (backed out) size. There were two problems, that I saw from the bleachers, with this: 1) -stable and -current had drifted so far that automated source code control of merging was nightmarish at best. 2) -stable had too many changes to it after 2.1R was released. Any future -stable branches should be relatively small deltas from the last release. I tend to think of -stable as 2.1R with all the supported patches to 2.1R pre-applied. I appreciate the monitary concerns raised here. I think that if the volume of deltas are very small, one person could handle them in a sane manner. Would make a good way to donate to the FreeBSD project, IMHO. If no one comes forward, then I believe that the right approach would be to kill the whole -stable concept. While it does differentiate FreeBSD from the other BSDs out there, it is not worth undue stress and strain on the core team to make it happen. However, that said, I understand and appreciate that the core team will do what they want with their time. I further understand that it is unreasonable for me to demand anything other than a CD rom when it suits their (and not my) fancy (subject of course to my payment for the cdrom). I appreciate what the core team has accomplished and am proud to use the fruits of their labors and hope to continue to be allowed to do so. Warner From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 19:13:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA10658 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10638 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id TAA07082 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA16562; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199606110209.UAA16562@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. Cc: Terry Lee , Dave Andersen , davidg@Root.COM, stable@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:00:20 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:09:17 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Just to clarify this once more: If there were enough money coming in : to offset the headache of the additional bookkeeping, I'd do it (and : if I do, anyone who's donated in the last 24 months can get a : back-dated tax donation credit - I checked this out). However, we : need to get over the threshold first! :-) ballpark, what's that figure, per year: $1k $3k $10k? $30k? $100k? $300k? $1M? I know that we have a smallish non-profit-like thing we're running here (the village) and at $2500/yr it is about 10x too small to go the 503c route. Warner From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 21:46:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA22613 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22597 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id VAA07934 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA20052; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:42:21 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199606110442.VAA20052@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terryl@ienet.com, angio@aros.net, davidg@Root.COM, stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606110209.UAA16562@rover.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Jun 10, 96 08:09:17 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : Just to clarify this once more: If there were enough money coming in > : to offset the headache of the additional bookkeeping, I'd do it (and > : if I do, anyone who's donated in the last 24 months can get a > : back-dated tax donation credit - I checked this out). However, we > : need to get over the threshold first! :-) > > > ballpark, what's that figure, per year: ... > > I know that we have a smallish non-profit-like thing we're running > here (the village) and at $2500/yr it is about 10x too small to go the > 503c route. This won't answer your question above, but your $2500/yr company is so small by 10x it doesn't even have to _file_ a return: IRS publication 557, section 2, Annual information Returns: Every organization exempt from federal income tax under section 501(a) must file an annual information return except: ... 10. An exempt organization (other than a private foundation, discussed in chapter 3) having gross receipts in each tax year that normally are not more than $25,000. (See the instructions for Form 990 for more information about what constitutes annual gross receipts that are normally not more than $25,000.) Furthermore, if you are operating this ``smallish non-profit-like'' in compliance with the IRS code section 501(c)(3) you are _infact_ automatically exempt, and do not even have to file the dreaded Form 1023: IRS publication 557, section 3, subsection ``Organizations Not Required to File Form 1023'': Some organizations are not required to file Form 1023. These include: Churches, interchurg organizations of local units of a .... Any organization (other than a private foundation) normally having annual gross receipts of not more than $5,000 (see Gross receipts test, later). These organizations are exept automatically if they meet the requirements of section 501(c)(3). Anyhow, anyone who is in anyway serious about setting up a 501(c)(3) should get a copy of IRS publication 557, avaliable from the IRS's www site in pdf and ps formats. Warner, you should probably get it as well, as I am quite sure your ``village smallish non-profit-like thing'' is probably a fully qualified tax-exempt organization. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Jun 10 22:16:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA24443 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA24434 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA22811; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:12:40 -0700 (PDT) To: Warner Losh cc: Terry Lee , Dave Andersen , davidg@Root.COM, stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: -Stable, credit card donations to FreeBSD, Inc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:09:17 MDT." <199606110209.UAA16562@rover.village.org> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:12:39 -0700 Message-ID: <22809.834469959@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > $1k > $3k > $10k? > $30k? > $100k? > $300k? > $1M? Well, anything less than $10K a year isn't even really worth the effort - you can buy maybe a couple of development systems for that and have enough left over to pay the tax accountant at the end of the year, but that's it. I'd rather run it on a shoestring if we're at that scale. $30K and you're talking enough float to push all the really egregious bookkeeping / fund raising tasks onto a part-time employee or a small firm. $100K is about where I start becoming interested in devoting more time to personally overseeing such a thing since I can now actually think about hiring a college student or two (or maybe even one really good hacker who made enough on the stock market that now all he really wants is a non-insulting salary doing something he likes). Up around $300K - $1M would be about the time I'd start thinking about a small office someplace and our own T1 line. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 01:33:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA13740 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.iafrica.com (root@chain.iafrica.com [196.7.74.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA13733 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost) by chain.iafrica.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA08181 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:32:58 +0200 (SAT) X-Authentication-Warning: chain.iafrica.com: khetan owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:32:57 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ahhhhhhhhh! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Darren Davis wrote: >There is too much noise, I think I need a straight jacket! I agree. Any reason to cross post to hackers and stable ? My reply is cross-posted to give stable something else to mutter about besides paying for stable ;-) >I came back to my email from the weekend, and I had over 400 hundred emails. You can filter it in a) your mail program or b) a external filter program. I can only comment on Pine (yes, there is at least *one* person using Pine ;-) - the latest (3.93) has built in filtering, although I don't know how good it is - I don't use it. I use procmail (procmail-3.11p4) which is in the ports (/usr/ports/mail/procmail) to filter mail for myself and my root user. Procmail works very well for me. I've set it up to filter all my mail to certain files in the /home/khetan/mail and /root/mail directory, and because ~/mail is Pine's default mail folder, it reads it as a ordinary mail folder. You'll probably find Root's .procmailrc very useful. Please find included my filtering for root (the filtering for Khetan is just as an example - the principle is the same for both). Both work fine; for root, it filters about 800 messages (about 1mb) in less than 10 seconds, and for Khetan it filtes about 300 messages in less than 4 seconds. I'm running -stable, but have used the same tools on -release and they work fine for me. Being on a dial-up, you learn how to spend as little time on-line as possible. Both users need a .forward file, something to the effect of ---.forward for khetan--- "| IFS=' ' && p=/usr/local/bin/procmail && test -f $p && exec $p -Yf- || exit 75 #khetan" ---.forward for khetan--- ---.forward for root--- "| IFS=' ' && p=/usr/local/bin/procmail && test -f $p && exec $p -Yf- || exit 75 #root" ---.forward for root--- They also need a .procmailrc, something to the effect of : ---.procmailrc for khetan--- LOGFILE=/home/khetan/procmail.log :0: *^To.*callbacks /home/khetan/mail/callbacks :0: *^cc.*callbacks /home/khetan/mail/callbacks :0: *^To.*helpdesk /home/khetan/mail/helpdesk :0: *^cc.*helpdesk /home/khetan/mail/helpdesk ---.procmailrc for khetan--- ---.procmailrc for root--- LOGFILE=/root/procmail.log :0: *^Subject:.*tcpd /root/mail/tcpd :0: *^Subject:.*chain /root/mail/chain :0: *^From.*owner-freebsd-questions /root/mail/questions :0: *^From.*owner-freebsd-emulation /root/mail/emulation :0: *^From.*owner-freebsd-current /root/mail/current :0: *^From.*owner-freebsd-stable /root/mail/stable :0: *^From.*owner-freebsd-hackers /root/mail/hackers :0: *^From.*owner-freebsd-announce /root/mail/announce :0: *^From.*owner-freebsd-security /root/mail/security :0: *^Subject:.*SECURITY /root/mail/chain ---.procmailrc for root--- Regards, Khetan Gajjar. --- Visit me at http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan/ UUNet-Internet Africa Operations help@iafrica.com or 0800-030-002 From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 06:37:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA23226 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA22886 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 06:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA17979; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:39:05 +0300 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:39:04 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: Warner Losh cc: John Polstra , stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Status of -stable In-Reply-To: <199606110154.TAA16483@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Warner Losh wrote: > : Well, I liked -stable too! Are you sure you're not over-reacting to > : the recent nightmare? That pesky post-traumatic stress syndrome thing? > : Hey, in time, the night sweats and flashbacks will pass. :-) > > OK. I've read all the posts in -hackers and -stable on this. I'm > only sending this to -stable. > > I like the idea of -stable where you have MAJOR bugfixes only. That's > it. No mega-commits. No trying to get neat new features. Only > security holes, core dumps, data corruption and kernel panic fixed. > The current -stable branch has been good for me in that it is 2.1R + a > few good patches. I'd be happy with that. Something that you'd have > to SUP once or maybe twice a month to keep current would be ideal. > Wanna commit anything else: Tough. Use -current. This is somewhat of > a hard line, I know, but it would mirror well what standard practice > in the industry is. Then there would not be the ccd driver in -stable... :-( > > I agree that the current -stable branch has gotten way out of hand and > nothing like it should continue to exist in the post-2.1.5 world. > Once 2.2 is out, it might be a good idea to have something like this > around, but only with a much more restricted scope. Looking at the > logs, I'd restrict the patches to about 1/10th their current (backed > out) size. Now, if I remeber everyting correctly, the 2.1 branch was supposed to end with 2.1.5 anyways. > > There were two problems, that I saw from the bleachers, with this: > 1) -stable and -current had drifted so far that automated > source code control of merging was nightmarish at best. > 2) -stable had too many changes to it after 2.1R was > released. > > Any future -stable branches should be relatively small deltas from the > last release. I tend to think of -stable as 2.1R with all the > supported patches to 2.1R pre-applied. > There has to be anyone yet to contradict this - at most, there have been just ifs... and thens... and nothing certain on the part of the -stable supporters. > I appreciate the monitary concerns raised here. I think that if the > volume of deltas are very small, one person could handle them in a > sane manner. Would make a good way to donate to the FreeBSD project, > IMHO. If no one comes forward, then I believe that the right approach > would be to kill the whole -stable concept. While it does > differentiate FreeBSD from the other BSDs out there, it is not worth > undue stress and strain on the core team to make it happen. Anything other than bug-fixes has surely been undue. > > However, that said, I understand and appreciate that the core team > will do what they want with their time. I further understand that it > is unreasonable for me to demand anything other than a CD rom when it > suits their (and not my) fancy (subject of course to my payment for > the cdrom). I appreciate what the core team has accomplished and am > proud to use the fruits of their labors and hope to continue to be > allowed to do so. > The words from us all. Sander > Warner > > From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 10:10:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA12706 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epprod.elsevier.co.uk (epprod.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12701 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by epprod.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA22813 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 18:09:21 +0100 Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk (actually host cadair) by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Tue, 11 Jun 1996 18:09:32 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA27795; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 18:08:50 +0100 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 18:08:50 +0100 Message-Id: <199606111708.SAA27795@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> To: Narvi Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of -stable In-Reply-To: References: <199606110154.TAA16483@rover.village.org> Reply-To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk From: Paul Richards X-Attribution: Paul X-Mailer: GNU Emacs [19.30.1], RMAIL, Mailcrypt [3.3] Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Narvi" == Narvi writes: Narvi> On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Warner Losh wrote: >> I like the idea of -stable where you have MAJOR bugfixes only. >> That's it. No mega-commits. No trying to get neat new features. >> Only security holes, core dumps, data corruption and kernel panic >> fixed. The current -stable branch has been good for me in that it >> is 2.1R + a few good patches. I'd be happy with that. Something >> that you'd have to SUP once or maybe twice a month to keep current >> would be ideal. Wanna commit anything else: Tough. Use -current. >> This is somewhat of a hard line, I know, but it would mirror well >> what standard practice in the industry is. This is *exactly* my view of what -stable should be. Narvi> Then there would not be the ccd driver in -stable... :-( Tough, it's a new feature it will be in the next -current release. >> I appreciate the monitary concerns raised here. I think that if >> the volume of deltas are very small, one person could handle them >> in a sane manner. Would make a good way to donate to the FreeBSD >> project, IMHO. If no one comes forward, then I believe that the >> right approach would be to kill the whole -stable concept. While >> it does differentiate FreeBSD from the other BSDs out there, it is >> not worth undue stress and strain on the core team to make it >> happen. I've already said I'd be willing to maintain -stable if it was *just* bug fixes and access to the tree was restricted to a small handfull of stable maintainers so that changes were strictly controlled. Absolutely no retrofitting of -current stuff into it. My idea would be to run things as follows (which is what I'm planning to do for the Apache cvs tree as well): 1) I think -stable should go away since it's misleaeding, it suggests an ongoing stable branch which was never what it was supposed to be and is unworkable in practice. 2) Development is ongoing and takes place in -current. At some point it's decided that things have reached a point where it's time to do a release, a cdrom is pressed and the tree is branched so people can keep playing in -current. The -whatever (needs a name, probably something based on the release number) branch can then be used to maintain minimal impace bug fixes. I'd consider the issue of new drivers but other than that it really would be strictly maintained as a bug fix only branch. 3) The bug fix branch would be available using ctm/sup as an automated bug fix support service. We can consider the option of doing a 2.2.1 (e.g.) cdrom in between main -current driven releases if the development cycle is prolonged (which it always seems to be). Such a cdrom could have updated ports as well. 4) There would *never* be any merges from -current into -whatever. Fixes to -whatever would be done using separate patches (possibly extrated from current but more likely as things diverge by simply doing -whatever specific fixes by hand). I'm perfectly happy to do this if resources are kept available on freefall to maintain the cvs and sup/ctm facilities. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 10:58:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA15609 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA15600 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id KAA16079 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA19785; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:56:58 +0300 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:56:57 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: Paul Richards cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of -stable In-Reply-To: <199606111708.SAA27795@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 11 Jun 1996, Paul Richards wrote: > >>>>> "Narvi" == Narvi writes: > > Narvi> On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Warner Losh wrote: > > >> I like the idea of -stable where you have MAJOR bugfixes only. > >> That's it. No mega-commits. No trying to get neat new features. > >> Only security holes, core dumps, data corruption and kernel panic > >> fixed. The current -stable branch has been good for me in that it > >> is 2.1R + a few good patches. I'd be happy with that. Something > >> that you'd have to SUP once or maybe twice a month to keep current > >> would be ideal. Wanna commit anything else: Tough. Use -current. > >> This is somewhat of a hard line, I know, but it would mirror well > >> what standard practice in the industry is. > > This is *exactly* my view of what -stable should be. > > Narvi> Then there would not be the ccd driver in -stable... :-( > > Tough, it's a new feature it will be in the next -current release. It is present in the LINT kernel of the -SNAP and so it will likely make to the release in 2.1.5? > > >> I appreciate the monitary concerns raised here. I think that if > >> the volume of deltas are very small, one person could handle them > >> in a sane manner. Would make a good way to donate to the FreeBSD > >> project, IMHO. If no one comes forward, then I believe that the > >> right approach would be to kill the whole -stable concept. While > >> it does differentiate FreeBSD from the other BSDs out there, it is > >> not worth undue stress and strain on the core team to make it > >> happen. > > I've already said I'd be willing to maintain -stable if it was *just* > bug fixes and access to the tree was restricted to a small handfull of > stable maintainers so that changes were strictly controlled. Absolutely > no retrofitting of -current stuff into it. My idea would be to run > things as follows (which is what I'm planning to do for the Apache cvs > tree as well): > > 1) I think -stable should go away since it's misleaeding, it suggests > an ongoing stable branch which was never what it was supposed to be and > is unworkable in practice. I see the -stable branch almost the only way of warranting the -releases to be stable. Perhaps not a -stable branch as we know it now but one that diverges off the -current say some months before the -release for more throughout testing. > > 2) Development is ongoing and takes place in -current. At some point it's > decided that things have reached a point where it's time to do a release, > a cdrom is pressed and the tree is branched so people can keep playing > in -current. The -whatever (needs a name, probably something based on the > release number) branch can then be used to maintain minimal > impace bug fixes. I'd consider the issue of new drivers but other than that > it really would be strictly maintained as a bug fix only branch. > > 3) The bug fix branch would be available using ctm/sup as an automated bug > fix support service. We can consider the option of doing a 2.2.1 (e.g.) cdrom > in between main -current driven releases if the development cycle is > prolonged (which it always seems to be). Such a cdrom could have updated > ports as well. > > 4) There would *never* be any merges from -current into -whatever. Fixes to > -whatever would be done using separate patches (possibly extrated from current > but more likely as things diverge by simply doing -whatever specific fixes > by hand). There should be no *commits* to -stable that cause *anything to happen*. Things should be tested and then commited, maybe giving out the patches for extra testing - I don't think there would be a patch or change for which there would be only one person to want it. > > I'm perfectly happy to do this if resources are kept available on freefall > to maintain the cvs and sup/ctm facilities. > > Most probably it all shall go your way - unless something changes real soon. But I am not going to do anythibg about itr and hope I will some time get a computer to play with -current on... Sander From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 12:33:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA20065 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.fidata.fi (gate.fidata.fi [193.64.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA20058 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeta.fidata.fi (zeta.fidata.fi [193.64.102.5]) by gate.fidata.fi (8.7.5/8.7.Beta.12) with ESMTP id WAA11071 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:28:11 +0300 (DST) Received: (from tomppa@localhost) by zeta.fidata.fi (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA03211; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:28:09 +0300 (EET DST) Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:28:09 +0300 (EET DST) Resent-From: Tomi Vainio Resent-Message-Id: <199606111928.WAA03211@zeta.fidata.fi> Message-Id: <199606111928.WAA03211@zeta.fidata.fi> Resent-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Reply-To: tomppa@fidata.fi From: tomppa@fidata.fi (Tomi Vainio) CC: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: REPOST: Problem with TCP, select or what? Date: Sat, 8 Jun 96 15:33:38 EET DST Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have strange net problems on my stable machine. Irc connections, identd, xmcd etc don't work always and perfectly. Here is example how to emulate xmcd database query with telnet. tick:~(13)% telnet cddb.ton.tut.fi 888 Trying 193.166.80.16... Connected to mylly.ton.tut.fi. Escape character is '^]'. 201 mylly CDDBP server v1.0PL0 ready at Sat Jun 8 15:18:36 1996 cddb hello tomppa tick.fidata.fi xmcd v2.0PL2 200 Hello and welcome tomppa@tick.fidata.fi running xmcd v2.0PL2. cddb query 7e0a2c0a 10 183 15823 37875 50415 66678 83428 104515 119083 138313 158238 2606 200 rock 7e0a2c0a Scorpions / Best of Scorpions Vol. 2 cddb read rock 7e0a2c0a It should continue session like this: 210 rock 7e0a2c0a CD database entry follows (until terminating `.') # xmcd 1.4 CD database file # Copyright (C) 1995 Ti Kan # # Track frame offsets: # 183 # 15823 # 37875 .... It works correctly with Solaris 2, BSDI, ISC SVR3, RiscOS, FreeBSD 2.1.0R, FreeBSD 2.1.0R with June 4 stable kernel, FreeBSD 2.1.0 April 12 stable with May 29 stable kernel. It don't work with June 7 stable or stable that I supped early May. It hangs after cddb read command. tick:~(14)% ps -xul | grep cddb tomppa 325 0.0 1.9 256 572 p1 I+ 3:18PM 0:00.07 telnet cddb.ton. 113 325 253 0 2 0 256 572 select I+ p1 0:00.07 telnet cddb.ton.tut.fi 888 tick:~(15)% netstat | grep ton tcp 0 0 tick.fidata.fi.1033 mylly.ton.tut.fi.acces ESTABLISHED Tomppa Tomi Vainio, Fimeko-Data OY Phone +358-0-4582421 Internet tomppa@fidata.fi Telefax +358-0-4582425 X.400 /C=fi/ADMD=fumail/PRMD=inet/O=fidata/S=Vainio/G=Tomi/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBMb3Iu53dw9v49lg1AQEsKwP/SDjb16bNywkqhY91nPnaCZO5qjVZNBBc fG4NJ1sEno9BN9bHrM5JUbl5a/TDVT7wzvY3j2yFKOx1RV5PmE5Kv+9oxZkimGWv toJzm7A5+OEEwRTgOVK1Z/wywsuUNawMvFc/RTxpVqGvYYIopHIZFwUXNKFD4FXc EnKIR3MB2RA= =jv5E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 12:38:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA20429 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20422 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id JAA22470; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:35:10 -1000 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:35:10 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199606111935.JAA22470@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Paul Richards "Re: Status of -stable" (Jun 11, 6:08pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk, Narvi Subject: Re: Status of -stable Cc: stable@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } } > Then there would not be the ccd driver in -stable... :-( } Wasn't ccd useable with -stable before it actually became a part of it? It's not necessarily that hard to make some things work with the distribution without including them in it. Richard From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 13:55:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA26987 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iddmz3.iddis.com (iddmz3.iddis.com [147.249.10.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26973 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by iddmz3.iddis.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA29106 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:57:10 -0400 Received: from iddss1.iddis.com(147.249.1.10) by iddmz3.iddis.com via smap (V1.3) id sma029103; Tue Jun 11 16:57:06 1996 Received: from iddptm.iddis.com by iddss1 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA08077; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:50:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by iddptm.iddis.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA25308 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199606112053.QAA25308@iddptm.iddis.com> X-Authentication-Warning: iddptm.iddis.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Weird ctm patch Reply-To: pmarquis@iddis.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:53:07 -0400 From: Paul Marquis Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is ctm patch 117 simply supposed to delete the Makefile and COPYRIGHT files in the root directory? This doesn't seem right to me. -- Paul, the Edge, Marquis pmarquis@iddis.com From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 14:40:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA29439 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jrihealth.com (mail.jrihealth.com [204.249.32.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29429 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carebase3.jri.org (danp@carebase3.jri.org [204.249.32.9]) by mail.jrihealth.com (8.3/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id RAA01141; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:44:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:44:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Polivy To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: CU-SeeMe Reflector (BSDI) on -stable? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Is anyone running the BSDI version of the CU-SeeMe Reflector on -stable? I have v4.00b3, and it runs, yet when clients connect, they get disconnected, or at least the client thinks so. Is this due to an incompatability between the BSDI bin and FreeBSD? A Misconfiguration? Also, I am running May 30th -stable; is linux sound support in it? If so, is it enabled by default or is there something I need to do to enable it? If not, is there another library or patches Ican apply that will give me sound from linux apps? Lastly, has anyone successfully gotten Executor/Linux2 Beta2 to run under FreeBSD? I'm not sure of the one that is it in the commercial dist of FreeBSD (the version), but I downloaded a new one from their web site (http://www.ardi.com) and it wouldn't run... *shrug* I can give you more info if you need it... Thanks! Dan +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Dan Polivy Powered by FreeBSD! | Systems Administrator | | Work: | JRI Health Information Systems | | Home: | http://www.jri.org/ | |-------------------------------------+--------------------------------------| | Webmaster, The Lion's Roar Online! | http://www.roar.pride.net/~roar/ | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 14:51:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00224 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ulantris.infinop.com (root@ulantris.infinop.com [205.230.144.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00218 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from john@localhost) by ulantris.infinop.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA15040; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:52:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "John A. Booth" Message-Id: <199606112152.QAA15040@ulantris.infinop.com> Subject: Re: adaptec disk controllers and 2.1-RELEASE To: bill@twwells.com (T. William Wells) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:52:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4pkol2$pce@twwells.com> from "T. William Wells" at Jun 11, 96 05:32:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm using an adaptec 2940 on my news server. I've been told that > the occasional panics (something about scsi bus timeouts?) have > been resolved by a -STABLE release; however, when I installed the > first of them (well, partially: I swapped kernels and /bin), I > got a flood of complaints that my server was failing. > I personally would recommend against going half way into an upgrade like that, I've had bad past experiences. If you feel you need to give it a while, try the whole thing on a somewhat busy (hopefully not-critical machine). From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 14:59:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00844 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00839 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LOCAL (wjw@localhost) by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) pid 2946 for stable@freebsd.org; id XAA02946; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:59:32 +0200 From: wjw@IAEhv.nl (Willem Jan Withagen) Message-Id: <199606112159.XAA02946@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> Subject: Firewall rules To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:59:32 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've been mucking around with all kinds of set of firerules but do not seem to be able to get what I'd want. Could somebody send me a set of rules he/she is using to protect a local officenet in any ways. Just to use as an example. Thanx Willem Jan -- Internet Access Eindhoven BV., voice: +31-40-2438330, data: +31-40-2439436 P.O. 928, 5600 AX Eindhoven, The Netherlands Full Internet connectivity for only fl 12.95 a month. Call now, and login as 'new'. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 16:10:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05703 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au [130.102.222.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05697 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from garyr@localhost) by ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA12220; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:08:21 +1000 From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <199606112308.JAA12220@ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Status of -stable To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:08:20 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199606111708.SAA27795@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Jun 11, 96 06:08:50 pm Organisation: The University of Queensland Phone: +617 3844 0400 Reply-To: garyr@wcs.uq.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards writes: [ content trimmed to just the salient points ... ] > >> I like the idea of -stable where you have MAJOR bugfixes only. > >> That's it. No mega-commits. No trying to get neat new features. > >> I appreciate the monitary concerns raised here. I think that if > >> the volume of deltas are very small, one person could handle them > >> in a sane manner. Would make a good way to donate to the FreeBSD > I've already said I'd be willing to maintain -stable if it was *just* > bug fixes ..... Let us take Paul up on his kind offer. His (trimmed) points, quoted below, are exactly what is needed here. I've added a few of my own thoughts and invite comment. > 1) I think -stable should go away since it's misleaeding, it suggests > an ongoing stable branch which was never what it was supposed to be and > is unworkable in practice. Agree 100%. When Jordan gets 2.1.5-RELEASE out the door, -stable just disappears and people who need stability just take the latest -RELEASE. Under Paul's guidance, those who have an interest in stability simply form a working group to manage the hand testing and application of bug-fix patches only and use sup/ctm to distribute them. > 2) Development is ongoing and takes place in -current. At some point it's .... Exactly!! The developers direct all their energies to current and simply forget about the last -RELEASE. ISP's and others with a vested interest in stability take over at this point. If development in -current is protracted and if the number of bug-fixes becomes too large, it may well be advisable to cut another -RELEASE (say 2.1.6-RELEASE to replace 2.1.5-RELEASE). The timing just depends on circumstances. I don't think you would want to have new people grabbing the -RELEASE and then having to apply a zillion bug-fix patches. There must be something very attractive in having a -RELEASE which is say at most 2-3 months old. > 3) The bug fix branch would be available using ctm/sup as an automated bug > fix support service. We can consider the option of doing a 2.2.1 (e.g.) cdrom > in between main -current driven releases if the development cycle is > prolonged (which it always seems to be). Such a cdrom could have updated > ports as well. Yep, the 2.1.5 -- 2.1.6 -- 2.1.7 ... cycle just continues until the developers are ready to turn -current into 2.2.0. As soon as 2.2.0-RELEASE is out, 2.1.X vanishes and bug-fixes for 2.2.0 start flowing. On the presumption that the zero release always contains quite a few bugs *grin* the expectation is that there will be a 2.2.1-RELEASE about 6-8 weeks later. The rate of bug discovery will probably then slow considerably and there _may_ be the opportunity for Paul's team to consider the odd new driver if it is an easy fit and if there is significant demand for it and significant advantage for the users in having it. > 4) There would *never* be any merges from -current into -whatever. Fixes to > -whatever would be done using separate patches (possibly extrated from current > but more likely as things diverge by simply doing -whatever specific fixes > by hand). Richard Wackerbarth creates and distributes ctm deltas for -stable on a daily basis right now and I've found that to be a very valuable service. CTM is a very nice and easy way that is network load friendly for keeping your source tree in sync. I'm not speaking for Richard but he would probably be quite willing to distribute the patches. He'll need _something_ to keep him occupied when -stable disappears :->. > I'm perfectly happy to do this if resources are kept available on freefall > to maintain the cvs and sup/ctm facilities. Thanks for the kind offer. What do we need to do to make this happen? Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (garyr@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 3844 0400 Fax +617 3844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 16:10:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05726 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen.nash.org (nash.pr.mcs.net [204.95.47.72]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA05718 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alex@localhost) by zen.nash.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA03347; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 18:09:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 18:09:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199606112309.SAA03347@zen.nash.org> From: Alex Nash To: wjw@IAEhv.nl Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Firewall rules Reply-to: nash@mcs.com Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been mucking around with all kinds of set of firerules but do not > seem to be able to get what I'd want. Can you elaborate on what it is you want? > Could somebody send me a set of rules he/she is using to protect a local > officenet in any ways. Just to use as an example. I've attached /etc/rc.firewall from -current, it should get you started. Alex ############ # Setup system for firewall service. # $Id: rc.firewall,v 1.2 1996/04/12 09:16:42 phk Exp $ ############ # # >>Warning<< # This file is not very old yet, and have been put together without much # test of the contents. ############ # # If you don't know enough about packet filtering, we suggest that you # take time to read this book: # # Building Internet Firewalls # Brent Chapman and Elizabeth Zwicky # # O'Reilly & Associates, Inc # ISBN 1-56592-124-0 # # For a more advanced treatment of Internet Security read: # # Firewalls & Internet Security # Repelling the wily hacker # William R. Cheswick, Steven M. Bellowin # # Addison-Wesley # ISBN 0-201-6337-4 # ############ # If you just configured ipfw in the kernel as a tool to solve network # problems or you just want to disallow some particular kinds of traffic # they you will want to change the default policy to open. # /sbin/ipfw add 65000 pass all from any to any ############ # Only in rare cases do you want to change this rule /sbin/ipfw add 1000 pass all from 127.0.0.1 to 127.0.0.1 ############ # This is a prototype setup that will protect your system somewhat against # people from outside your own network. # # To enable simply change "false" to "true" in the if line and set the # variables to your network parameters if false ; then # set these to your network and netmask and ip net="192.168.4.0" mask="255.255.255.0" ip="192.168.4.17" # Allow any traffic to or from my own net. /sbin/ipfw add pass all from ${ip} to ${net}:${mask} /sbin/ipfw add pass all from ${net}:${mask} to ${ip} # Allow TCP through if setup succeeded /sbin/ipfw add pass tcp from any to any established # Allow setup of incoming email /sbin/ipfw add pass tcp from any to ${ip} 25 setup # Allow setup of outgoing TCP connections only /sbin/ipfw add pass tcp from ${ip} to any setup # Disallow setup of all other TCP connections /sbin/ipfw add deny tcp from any to any setup # Allow DNS queries out in the world /sbin/ipfw add pass udp from any 53 to ${ip} /sbin/ipfw add pass udp from ${ip} to any 53 # Allow NTP queries out in the world /sbin/ipfw add pass udp from any 123 to ${ip} /sbin/ipfw add pass udp from ${ip} to any 123 # Everyting else is denied as default. fi ############ # This is a prototype setup for a simple firewall. Configure this machine # as a named server and ntp server, and point all the machines on the inside # at this machine for those services. # # To enable simply change "false" to "true" in the if line and set the # variables to your network parameters if false ; then # set these to your outside interface network and netmask and ip oif="ed0" onet="192.168.4.0" omask="255.255.255.0" oip="192.168.4.17" # set these to your inside interface network and netmask and ip iif="ed1" inet="192.168.3.0" imask="255.255.255.0" iip="192.168.3.17" # Stop spoofing /sbin/ipfw add deny all from ${inet}:${imask} to any in via ${oif} /sbin/ipfw add deny all from ${onet}:${omask} to any in via ${iif} # Stop RFC1918 nets on the outside interface /sbin/ipfw add deny all from 192.168.0.0:255.255.0.0 to any via ${oif} /sbin/ipfw add deny all from 172.16.0.0:255.240.0.0 to any via ${oif} /sbin/ipfw add deny all from 10.0.0.0:255.0.0.0 to any via ${oif} # Allow TCP through if setup succeeded /sbin/ipfw add pass tcp from any to any established # Allow setup of incoming email /sbin/ipfw add pass tcp from any to ${oip} 25 setup # Allow access to our DNS /sbin/ipfw add pass tcp from any to ${oip} 53 setup # Allow access to our WWW /sbin/ipfw add pass tcp from any to ${oip} 80 setup # Reject&Log all setup of incoming connections from the outside /sbin/ipfw add deny log tcp from any to any in via ${oif} setup # Allow setup of any other TCP connection /sbin/ipfw add pass tcp from any to any setup # Allow DNS queries out in the world /sbin/ipfw add pass udp from any 53 to ${oip} /sbin/ipfw add pass udp from ${oip} to any 53 # Allow NTP queries out in the world /sbin/ipfw add pass udp from any 123 to ${oip} /sbin/ipfw add pass udp from ${oip} to any 123 # Everyting else is denied as default. fi From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 19:31:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA17358 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA17351 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:31:07 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 11 Jun 1996 21:30:54 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re(2): Status of -stable To: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "garyr@wcs.uq.edu.au" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary R writes: > Yep, the 2.1.5 -- 2.1.6 -- 2.1.7 ... cycle just continues until the > developers are ready to turn -current into 2.2.0. As soon as 2.2.0-RELEASE > is out, 2.1.X vanishes and bug-fixes for 2.2.0 start flowing. On the > presumption that the zero release always contains quite a few bugs *grin* > the expectation is that there will be a 2.2.1-RELEASE about 6-8 weeks > later. The rate of bug discovery will probably then slow considerably > and there _may_ be the opportunity for Paul's team to consider the odd new > driver if it is an easy fit and if there is significant demand for it and > significant advantage for the users in having it. Here I think you are premature in abandoning the 2.1 strain. We should keep it until the 2.2 strain has had enough bugs fixed that we are comfortable considering it to be throughly shaken out. -- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 19:53:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA18776 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au [130.102.222.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18769 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from garyr@localhost) by ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA12435; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:52:26 +1000 From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <199606120252.MAA12435@ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Re(2): Status of -stable To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:52:25 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Jun 11, 96 09:30:54 pm Organisation: The University of Queensland Phone: +617 3844 0400 Reply-To: garyr@wcs.uq.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth writes: > > Yep, the 2.1.5 -- 2.1.6 -- 2.1.7 ... cycle just continues until the > > developers are ready to turn -current into 2.2.0. As soon as 2.2.0-RELEASE > > is out, 2.1.X vanishes and bug-fixes for 2.2.0 start flowing. On the .... > Here I think you are premature in abandoning the 2.1 strain. We should keep it > until the 2.2 strain has had enough bugs fixed that we are comfortable > considering it to be throughly shaken out. Quite correct, of course. Instead of "2.1.X vanishes" please substitute the words "work on 2.1.X drastically reduces or stops completely" to get a better impression of my meaning. With advance warning of the impending 2.2.0-RELEASE, I envisage that the maintainers of 2.1.X would put out a final cleanup version which would be the "production" system until 2.2.0 had proved itself. This final version could be available for as long as required perhaps at least until 2.2.1 or 2.2.2 was out and was perceived to be of sufficient stability and quality to be a viable replacement. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (garyr@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 3844 0400 Fax +617 3844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 21:04:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA24407 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24392 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunghole.dunn.org (bunghole.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA23186; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199606120403.AAA23186@ns2.harborcom.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bradley Dunn" Organization: Harbor Communications To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:00:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault Reply-to: dunn@harborcom.net CC: Dave Andersen , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, the new (old) pmap.c seems to be holding up. The machine previously crashed at least once every 24 hours. It has now been up for over 48. Just to let you know that the pmap code seems to have made the difference. On 9 Jun 96 at 17:54, David Greenman wrote: > >FWIW, our news server has been crashing about once a day with this > >double fault as well. Next time it happens I'll look up the address > > and forward it on. It was doing this before the mega-commit, so > >after things got cleaned up I rebuilt but the machine still goes > >down about once a day, usually during an expire. > > Please update your kernel to the "current" -stable. I just > reverted the > pmap code to what was in 2.1R due to possibly related problems. > > -DG Bradley Dunn Harbor Communications -- www.haborcom.net or something... From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 21:56:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA26603 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (root@haven.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA26598 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meno.uchicago.edu (meno.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.34]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA10593 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:55:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from meno.uchicago.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by meno.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA06651 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:58:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199606120458.XAA06651@meno.uchicago.edu> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:00:10 CDT." <199606120403.AAA23186@ns2.harborcom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6647.834555515.1@meno.uchicago.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:58:35 -0500 From: steve farrell Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i'm not sure if this problem is related to this, but i've been running a -stable i supped, well, i guess 2 days ago. i posted in -questions about how it would seem to run out of processes unexplainably after about 12 hours of single-user use. well, more recently it went down like a rock without a single error message while running netscape. i've since reverted to 2.1-R and i'll probably make a remark in a couple of days if that seems to have fixed the problems... in addition to my config file which i posted in -questions, one other thing to note is that i have a $12 NE2000 clone. i know linux had some huge problems with these things causing crashes -- how about freebsd? might this have caused the crash i experienced today? i've noticed that freebsd network performance is significantly slower than linux pre-2.0 with this card. for example, ftp from a sparc 1 maxes at 300 kb/sec, often slower, and rather unevely despite the fact that the sparc is about 2 feet away on a un-trafficked lan. with linux i was getting 550-600 kb/sec evenly. (sparc <-> another sparc seems to be around a meg/sec). i was also having trouble with linux crashing, and nfs timeouts... so i'm thinking there might be some unsavory interaction between the kernel and this card -- does this seem likely? (nothing in /var/log/messages -- is there a way to turn on more extensive logging in the kernel?) also -- if you think that this card might be the culprit, with what ISA card should i replace it? thanks much --- steve farrell >Well, the new (old) pmap.c seems to be holding up. The machine >previously crashed at least once every 24 hours. It has now been up >for over 48. Just to let you know that the pmap code seems to have >made the difference. > >On 9 Jun 96 at 17:54, David Greenman wrote: > >> >FWIW, our news server has been crashing about once a day with this >> >double fault as well. Next time it happens I'll look up the address >> > and forward it on. It was doing this before the mega-commit, so >> >after things got cleaned up I rebuilt but the machine still goes >> >down about once a day, usually during an expire. >> >> Please update your kernel to the "current" -stable. I just >> reverted the >> pmap code to what was in 2.1R due to possibly related problems. >> >> -DG > >Bradley Dunn >Harbor Communications -- www.haborcom.net >or something... > From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 22:38:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA29655 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oyster.vast.unsw.edu.au (oyster.vast.unsw.edu.au [149.171.224.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA29650 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conch.vast.unsw.edu.au (conch [149.171.224.3]) by oyster.vast.unsw.edu.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27705 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:38:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from spindle (spindle.vast.unsw.edu.au [149.171.224.45]) by conch.vast.unsw.edu.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA14853 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:38:43 +1000 (EST) Received: by spindle (5.0/client-1.3) id AA22769; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:38:42 +1000 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:38:41 +1000 (EST) From: Julian Jenkins X-Sender: julianj@spindle To: FreeBSD Stable Users Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view In-Reply-To: <199606080419.WAA02553@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > > We need a new model. One that keeps the quality high and one > > that doesn't prevent me from doing new development. > > Do you have any suggestions? Would creating a new 'stable' tree today > be even remotely acceptable? I have a suggestion for a system that could solve at least part of the problems. Every 6 months or so, at a time when -current is fairly stable, a new branch should be created that is destined to become the next release. After a period of bugfixes, etc (6 months?) this becomes the next release. At the time that this branch is now declared the stable branch and no changes other than bugfixes are welcome in that tree. The old stable branch can be discarded at this time. At this point the core team and anybody else can disown it and let those who use it perform any neccesacary managment. There may be a market for the old branch on CD at its final state for those who are excessively(sp?) paranoid or feel that the new stable is not yet as good as the last. The time of the new release is probably also a good time for a new branch to be created for the next release and the whole process started over. All people making changes to the release and stable branches should be encoraged to determine if it is appropriate to make them to the current branch as well. Rules for committing into the release and stable branches should be devised. These would probable be along the lines of only bugfixes are accepted into stable (people developing new features should be putting them in current and not wasting their time on stable), and features may be accepted into the release branch only if there is a very good reason for doing so. This scheme has the advantage that there is always a branch that is more stable than the last release. However this requires three branches which may make it impractical. Julian kaveman@magna.com.au From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Jun 11 23:56:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA03665 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from picasso.wcape.school.za (picasso.wcape.school.za [196.21.102.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03654 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silver by picasso.wcape.school.za with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0uTjr9-001nMlC; Wed, 12 Jun 96 08:56 SAT Received: by silver.wcape.school.za (UUPC/extended 1.12r); Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:54:55 +0200 Message-ID: <31be69bf.silver@silver.wcape.school.za> From: Stephen Marquard Organization: Western Cape Schools' Network To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:54:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Stability of 2.1-960606-SNAP ? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can anyone comment on the stability of the STABLE SNAP that Jordan produced? Is the pmap problem below present in the SNAP? Is it stable enough to put on a critical and heavily-loaded server? Stephen On 12 Jun 96 at 0:00, Bradley Dunn wrote: > Well, the new (old) pmap.c seems to be holding up. The machine > previously crashed at least once every 24 hours. It has now been up > for over 48. Just to let you know that the pmap code seems to have > made the difference. > > On 9 Jun 96 at 17:54, David Greenman wrote: > > > >FWIW, our news server has been crashing about once a day with this > > >double fault as well. Next time it happens I'll look up the address > > > and forward it on. It was doing this before the mega-commit, so > > >after things got cleaned up I rebuilt but the machine still goes > > >down about once a day, usually during an expire. > > > > Please update your kernel to the "current" -stable. I just > > reverted the > > pmap code to what was in 2.1R due to possibly related problems. > > > > -DG > > Bradley Dunn > Harbor Communications -- www.haborcom.net > or something... --- Stephen Marquard scm@silver.wcape.school.za Western Cape Schools' Network 12 Silverdale, Pinelands 7405, Cape Town, SA From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 05:08:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA28163 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA28158 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id FAA00899; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606121205.FAA00899@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: steve farrell cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:58:35 CDT." <199606120458.XAA06651@meno.uchicago.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:05:48 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >i'm not sure if this problem is related to this, but i've been running >a -stable i supped, well, i guess 2 days ago. i posted in -questions >about how it would seem to run out of processes unexplainably after >about 12 hours of single-user use. well, more recently it went down >like a rock without a single error message while running netscape. >i've since reverted to 2.1-R and i'll probably make a remark in a >couple of days if that seems to have fixed the problems... Please describe the type of activity that the machine normally sees. >in addition to my config file which i posted in -questions, one other >thing to note is that i have a $12 NE2000 clone. i know linux had some >huge problems with these things causing crashes -- how about freebsd? >might this have caused the crash i experienced today? The NE2000 driver in FreeBSD is rock solid. There are no known bugs. >i've noticed that freebsd network performance is significantly slower >than linux pre-2.0 with this card. for example, ftp from a sparc 1 >maxes at 300 kb/sec, often slower, and rather unevely despite the fact >that the sparc is about 2 feet away on a un-trafficked lan. with linux i >was getting 550-600 kb/sec evenly. (sparc <-> another sparc seems to >be around a meg/sec). I have one here that I get about 650K/sec with between two FreeBSD machines. The Suns do weird things with the TCP window. Last time I looked at Linux, it did weird things, too. :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 05:09:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA28191 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solar.os.com (craigs@solar.os.com [199.232.136.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA28186 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from craigs@localhost) by solar.os.com (8.7/8.7.0) id IAA10391; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:12:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:12:18 -0400 From: Craig Shrimpton Subject: Can someone tell me if this panic is -stable related? To: stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings, Can someone tell me if this panic is hardware related or software related? I'm getting random re-boots since I've started supping stable. 5:28:35 venus /kernel: kernel page directory invalid pdir=0x744023, va=0xefbfe000 5:28:36 venus /kernel: panic: invalid kernel page directory Thanks, Craig +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Craig Shrimpton | e-mail: craigs@os.com | | Orbit Systems | information: info@os.com | | Worcester, MA 508.753.8776 | http://www.os.com/ | +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Strategic Systems From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 05:10:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA28366 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA28357 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id FAA00924; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606121210.FAA00924@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Stephen Marquard cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stability of 2.1-960606-SNAP ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:54:48 +0200." <31be69bf.silver@silver.wcape.school.za> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:10:16 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Can anyone comment on the stability of the STABLE SNAP that Jordan >produced? > >Is the pmap problem below present in the SNAP? Is it stable >enough to put on a critical and heavily-loaded server? I wouldn't install any SNAP on a critical and heavily loaded server. It is not release code - just a snapshot. -stable SNAPs are generally stable, and except for the changes to pmap.c, it should perform relatively well. I probably sound like I'm contradicting myself. :-) We're only a few weeks away from a release and there should be another -stable SNAP out before then. If you're in a hurry, then install the -stable SNAP and then update your sources to the latest -stable via SUP. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 05:28:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA28879 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA28874 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id FAA01030; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606121228.FAA01030@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Craig Shrimpton cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can someone tell me if this panic is -stable related? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:12:18 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:28:07 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Greetings, > >Can someone tell me if this panic is hardware related or software >related? I'm getting random re-boots since I've started supping stable. > >5:28:35 venus /kernel: kernel page directory invalid pdir=0x744023, >va=0xefbfe000 >5:28:36 venus /kernel: panic: invalid kernel page directory The best answer I can give you is "it's probably a software problem". Try adding the following to your kernel config file: options "NO_SWAPPING" ...and of course re-config/build/install your kernel. I quick guess is that a traceback would show that the caller is vm_fork (calling pmap_enter). We've seen this before but haven't been able to explain how it's possible given the code involved. This is one section that was completely rewritten in -current. What are you doing on the machine? It would help if we could reproduce the problem. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 05:45:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA29499 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NS.Contrib.Com (NS.Contrib.Com [194.77.12.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA29491 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 05:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from src@localhost) by NS.Contrib.Com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA00607; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:45:03 +0200 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:45:03 +0200 From: Heiko Blume Message-Id: <199606121245.OAA00607@NS.Contrib.Com> To: john@ulantris.infinop.com CC: bill@twwells.com, stable@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606112152.QAA15040@ulantris.infinop.com> (john@ulantris.infinop.com) Subject: Re: adaptec disk controllers and 2.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "John" == John A Booth writes: >> >> I'm using an adaptec 2940 on my news server. I've been told that >> the occasional panics (something about scsi bus timeouts?) have >> been resolved by a -STABLE release; however, when I installed the >> first of them (well, partially: I swapped kernels and /bin), I >> got a flood of complaints that my server was failing. >> i do run 2.1-stable, but i still encounter that problem. just yesterday i had steady lights on one of my disks and on the adaptec, machine completely fronzen. i could not break into the kernel debugger, so...reset :-( very unpleasant!! hb From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 06:02:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA00601 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 06:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solar.os.com (root@solar.os.com [199.232.136.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA00593 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 06:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiter (jupiter.os.com [199.232.136.66]) by solar.os.com (8.7/8.7.0) with SMTP id JAA10450; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:05:37 -0400 Message-Id: <199606121305.JAA10450@solar.os.com> X-Sender: craigs@solar X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:59:55 -0400 To: davidg@Root.COM From: craigs@os.com (Craig Shrimpton) Subject: Re: Can someone tell me if this panic is -stable related? Cc: stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The best answer I can give you is "it's probably a software problem". Try >adding the following to your kernel config file: > >options "NO_SWAPPING" > > ...and of course re-config/build/install your kernel. I quick guess is that >a traceback would show that the caller is vm_fork (calling pmap_enter). We've >seen this before but haven't been able to explain how it's possible given the >code involved. This is one section that was completely rewritten in -current. >What are you doing on the machine? It would help if we could reproduce the >problem. > David, It has occurred twice during a news expire. (innd) The kernel panics and the system re-boots. -Craig =================================================================== Orbit Internet Email: craigs@os.com 400 Grove Street Phone: (508) 753-8776 Worcester, MA 01605 http://www.os.com/ From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 09:22:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA14810 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA14805 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA06371 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:51:49 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199606121621.BAA06371@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Subject: No CTM stable? To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:51:49 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL13 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gday... It can't just be me... someone else must have noticed that commits made back on the 9th still haven't come through in the ctm files... Has CTM for stable dried up? Peter PS. Anyone know if its possible to get the source for that /cgi-bin/cvsweb utils used on www.freebsd.org? I'd love to have it on my machine :) -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Active APANA SA Member --- Author PopWatch + Inf-HTML Email: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au Fax: 61-8-82784742 From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 10:25:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA17865 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA17857 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA15128; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:24:15 -0700 (PDT) To: Peter Childs cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No CTM stable? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:51:49 +0930." <199606121621.BAA06371@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:24:15 -0700 Message-ID: <15126.834600255@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > PS. Anyone know if its possible to get the source for that > /cgi-bin/cvsweb utils used on www.freebsd.org? Did you try asking the author? His URL is right at the top of the page.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 12:56:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA26515 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.cts.com (mailhub.cts.com [192.188.72.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA26505 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.cts.com(really [198.68.174.34]) by mailhub.cts.com via smail with esmtp id for ; Wed, 12 Jun 96 12:56:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.1.92 1996-Mar-19 #3 built 1996-Apr-21) Received: (from mdavis@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA03601; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:56:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199606121956.MAA03601@io.cts.com> Subject: Re: Kernel panic - double fault To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: spfarrel@midway.uchicago.edu, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199606121205.FAA00899@Root.COM> from David Greenman at "Jun 12, 96 05:05:48 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman writes: > > The NE2000 driver in FreeBSD is rock solid. There are no known bugs. I've got one of those NE2000 clones and it works fine. > I have one here that I get about 650K/sec with between two FreeBSD machines. And between Windows 95 and FreeBSD, about 400K/sec, which I ascribe to be a bottleneck on the Win95 machine (which has the same kind of card). > The Suns do weird things with the TCP window. Last time I looked at Linux, it > did weird things, too. :-) Perhaps turning off TCP_EXTENSIONS in sysconfig might help? There was a time when I could not have that turned when connecting to any BSDI 2.01 system on our network. With BSDI 2.1, it seems to be fine now. --Morgan From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 13:06:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA27472 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub-img-6.compuserve.com (dub-img-6.compuserve.com [198.4.9.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27455 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA27399; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 16:05:57 -0400 Date: 12 Jun 96 16:01:53 EDT From: Berend de Boer <100120.3121@CompuServe.COM> To: FreeBSD stable Subject: Graphic card for X Window Message-ID: <960612200153_100120.3121_EHQ138-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello All, I'm running FreeBSD on a 486/33DX ISA bus machine with 16MB. However the videocard (tvga8900cl/d chipset) does not work with XFree it seems. Can anyone recommend me an ISA bus video card with 800x600 resolution and at minimum 256 colors? And can that person kindly send me his/her XF80Config file? Thanks, Berend. From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 13:33:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA00476 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA00461 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:33:09 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 12 Jun 1996 15:32:48 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re: No CTM stable? To: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "Peter Childs" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The problems started along with Jordan's massive changes. I cannot seem to get a complete update of the cvs-tree from which the updates are generated. Each day, the update runs until it finally times out (its still "running" for almost 8 hours today) and aborts. I assure you that there will be updates just as soon as I get the appropriate data to generate them. PS: My cvs tree comes from sup2, which I understand is undergoing some changes. -- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Jun 12 19:18:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA22234 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22227 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [204.214.4.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA05002 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:18:52 -0700 Received: from [206.104.21.150] by fly.HiWAAY.net; (8.7.5/1.1.8.2/21Sep95-1003PM) id VAA18624; Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:17:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199606121205.FAA00899@Root.COM> References: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:58:35 CDT." <199606120458.XAA06651@meno.uchicago.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:06:41 -0500 To: davidg@Root.COM, steve farrell From: David Kelly Subject: NE2000 (was Re: Kernel panic - double fault) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 7:05 AM -0500 6/12/96, David Greenman wrote about NE2000 clones: > I have one here that I get about 650K/sec with between two FreeBSD machines. I have one that gets about 325K/sec via ftp from an SGI thru a couple of gateways. But the fun thing is if I ftp from that SGI in one building and write via NFS to another in still another building I still get 325K/sec reported by ftp for a 30M file. On a 486DX33 w/ 8M. You can't tell but I'm smiling ear to ear. This stuff is simply magic. Another interesting data point is my luggable 386SX16 in which FreeBSD finds about 4.5M of RAM (I looked inside and can only find 4M myself). This machine is so slow that you can count to 3 between typing your login name and the time the disk stops thrashing and it finally prompts for password. With an 8-bit 3com Etherlink II this box still produces a respectable 100K/sec via ftp. With its 800M HD it makes a wonderful box to lug to friend's houses to install FreeBSD from. I keep a spare Etherlink II, cables, and FreeBSD boot floppy in its case. This makes for a more impressive show than using CDROM and is more reliable when the target machine has an ATAPI CDROM. -- David Kelly N4HHE, n4hhe@amsat.org, dkelly@hiwaay.net ============================================================= To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. - Thomas Edison From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 02:20:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA08500 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 02:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08491; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 02:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606130920.CAA08491@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Heiko Blume cc: john@ulantris.infinop.com, bill@twwells.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adaptec disk controllers and 2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:45:03 +0200." <199606121245.OAA00607@NS.Contrib.Com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 02:20:48 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>>> "John" == John A Booth writes: > > >> > >> I'm using an adaptec 2940 on my news server. I've been told that > >> the occasional panics (something about scsi bus timeouts?) have > >> been resolved by a -STABLE release; however, when I installed the > >> first of them (well, partially: I swapped kernels and /bin), I > >> got a flood of complaints that my server was failing. > >> > >i do run 2.1-stable, but i still encounter that problem. >just yesterday i had steady lights on one of my disks and >on the adaptec, machine completely fronzen. >i could not break into the kernel debugger, so...reset :-( > >very unpleasant!! Using what revision of the driver files? sys/i386/scsi/aic7xxx* sys/i386/eisa/aic7770.c sys/dev/aic7xxx/* sys/pci/aic7870.c There were changes to the -stable driver as recently as last Sunday. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 07:37:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA27434 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 07:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA27428 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 07:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA02803 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 07:37:40 -0700 Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Thu, 13 Jun 1996 09:36:24 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 13 Jun 1996 09:36:06 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: CTM back in sync. To: "stable@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I transferred from sup2 to sup and successfully got an update all the way through. With src-2_1.119, things SHOULD be back up-to-date. Note that CTM is just the courier service. If you have difficulties with the delivered goods, please verify with the manufacturer before you claim damage in shipment. -- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 12:24:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12936 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (root@haven.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12931 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meno.uchicago.edu (meno.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.34]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20444 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:23:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from meno.uchicago.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by meno.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00293 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:26:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199606131926.OAA00293@meno.uchicago.edu> To: "stable@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: CTM back in sync. In-reply-to: Your message of "13 Jun 1996 09:36:06 CDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <289.834693978.1@meno.uchicago.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:26:18 -0500 From: steve farrell Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ok -- i replaced my NE2000 with a 3C509, hoping with the guess that a bad ethernet card was causing the lockups i was experiencing. i have not had the card in nearly long enough to judge if this has fixed the problem, but i did a few little benchmarks, and it tests well (650K/sec). but it's a little odder than that. if i'm ftping to an nfs mounted filesystem (on solaris 2.5/sparc), it gets about 100K/sec and makes the drive in the sparc gargle quite a bit... almost thrash. kind of odd, probably sun's fault =). what i'm posting to this list about is a far odder occurence: if i write to my EIDE disk, i get the aforementioned 650K/sec. but if i write to my SCSI disk, i get an abysmal 20K/sec. the system is a 486 w/48Meg of ram, so i wonder if this is some odd effect of having two cards attempting to do DMA through the bounce buffers? it this expected behavior??? (the SCSI disks otherwise seem to give normal performance...) (system is -stable which i supped just before recompiling for the 3Com card -- i.e., about an hour ago - from sup.freebsd.org...) From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 13:29:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA16065 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NS.Contrib.Com (NS.Contrib.Com [194.77.12.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16054; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from src@localhost) by NS.Contrib.Com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA08402; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:29:32 +0200 Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:29:32 +0200 From: Heiko Blume Message-Id: <199606132029.WAA08402@NS.Contrib.Com> To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org CC: john@ulantris.infinop.com, bill@twwells.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199606130920.CAA08491@freefall.freebsd.org> (gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org) Subject: Re: adaptec disk controllers and 2.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Justin" == Justin T Gibbs writes: >>>>>>> "John" == John A Booth writes: >> >> >> >> >> I'm using an adaptec 2940 on my news server. I've been told that >> >> the occasional panics (something about scsi bus timeouts?) have >> >> been resolved by a -STABLE release; however, when I installed the >> >> first of them (well, partially: I swapped kernels and /bin), I >> >> got a flood of complaints that my server was failing. >> >> >> >> i do run 2.1-stable, but i still encounter that problem. >> just yesterday i had steady lights on one of my disks and >> on the adaptec, machine completely fronzen. >> i could not break into the kernel debugger, so...reset :-( >> >> very unpleasant!! Justin> Using what revision of the driver files? Justin> sys/i386/scsi/aic7xxx* Justin> sys/i386/eisa/aic7770.c Justin> sys/dev/aic7xxx/* Justin> sys/pci/aic7870.c Justin> There were changes to the -stable driver as recently as last Sunday. i supped everything around may 4-6: sys/i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c: * $Id: aic7xxx.c,v 1.29.2.12 1996/04/28 19:33:58 gibbs Exp $ sys/i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h: * $Id: aic7xxx.h,v 1.10.2.8 1996/04/28 19:34:00 gibbs Exp $ sys/i386/eisa/aic7770.c: * $Id: aic7770.c,v 1.21.2.2 1996/04/28 19:38:18 gibbs Exp $ sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq:VERSION AIC7XXX_SEQ_VER "$Id: aic7xxx.seq,v 1.16.4.11 1996/04/28 19:33:03 gibbs Exp $" sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx_asm.c:static char id[] = "$Id: aic7xxx_asm.c,v 1.9.4.3 1996/04/01 00:11:14 gibbs Exp $"; sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx_reg.h: * $Id: aic7xxx_reg.h,v 1.2.2.4 1996/04/28 19:33:05 gibbs Exp $ sys/pci/aic7870.c: * $Id: aic7870.c,v 1.11.2.10 1996/04/28 19:37:09 gibbs Exp $ sometimes it runs for 10 days, sometimes it hangs every day. the adaptec LED is always on. sometimes a drive LED too. FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE #0: Fri Jun 7 10:31:18 MET DST 1996 root@news.b-1.de.contrib.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/CONTRIB CPU: 99-MHz Pentium 735\\90 or 815\\100 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 Features=0x1bf real memory = 50331648 (49152K bytes) avail memory = 46747648 (45652K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7 ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 ahc0: aic7880 Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ahc0:0:0): "IBM DPES-31080 S31Q" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1034MB (2118144 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:1:0): "DEC DSP5400S 427L" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 3814MB (7812870 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:2:0): "SEAGATE ST32550N 0016" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(ahc0:2:0): Direct-Access 2047MB (4194058 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:3:0): "SEAGATE ST32550N 0016" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd3(ahc0:3:0): Direct-Access 2047MB (4194058 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:4:0): "SEAGATE ST32550N 0016" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd4(ahc0:4:0): Direct-Access 2047MB (4194058 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:5:0): "IBM DPES-31080 S31Q" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd5(ahc0:5:0): Direct-Access 1034MB (2118144 512 byte sectors) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 msize 16384 on isa ed0: address 00:00:c0:0c:d1:67, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) ed1 not probed due to maddr conflict with ed0 at 0xd8000 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 wdc1 not found at 0x170 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface changing root device to sd0a ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks btw, what are those last four ones? never seen before. hb From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 15:35:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA24595 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24569 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id MAA03690 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00247; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:55:46 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:55:46 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606071955.NAA00247@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Morgan Davis Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp.c -- parse error breaks make world In-Reply-To: <199606071850.LAA00478@io.cts.com> References: <199606071850.LAA00478@io.cts.com> Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > make world: > > /usr/src/usr.bin/ftp/ftp.c:1201: parse error before `}' > *** Error code 1 Jordan fixed the pasto this morning. Thanks for reporting it! Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 19:08:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA26571 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA26547; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:08:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199606140208.TAA26547@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Digest format. To: cmakin@nla.gov.au (Carl Makin) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, stable In-Reply-To: from "Carl Makin" at Jun 14, 96 09:54:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Carl Makin wrote: > > > Is it possible to get the freebsd-questions and freebsd-stable lists > in digest form? The majordomo help doesn't say it is available. send the "lists" command to majordomo to get a lists of the lists that our majordomo supports. freebsd-questions-digest has been available for quite some time. i have just created the freebsd-stable-digest mailing list ;) enjoy jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 21:18:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05179 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05165; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA14877; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606140417.VAA14877@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Heiko Blume cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, john@ulantris.infinop.com, bill@twwells.com, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adaptec disk controllers and 2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 13 Jun 96 22:29:32 +0200. <199606132029.WAA08402@NS.Contrib.Com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:17:14 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >sometimes it runs for 10 days, sometimes it hangs every day. >the adaptec LED is always on. sometimes a drive LED too. That sounds like it could be a SCSI bus problem: bad cable, bad connections, and/or bad termination. It could also be a drive slowly dying.... FWIW... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 21:24:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05489 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05482; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606140424.VAA05482@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Heiko Blume cc: john@ulantris.infinop.com, bill@twwells.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adaptec disk controllers and 2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:29:32 +0200." <199606132029.WAA08402@NS.Contrib.Com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:24:55 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Justin> Using what revision of the driver files? > > Justin> sys/i386/scsi/aic7xxx* > Justin> sys/i386/eisa/aic7770.c > Justin> sys/dev/aic7xxx/* > Justin> sys/pci/aic7870.c > > Justin> There were changes to the -stable driver as recently as last Sunda >y. > >i supped everything around may 4-6: Please either re-SUP or pull the files specified above (plus sys/i386/scsi/93*) and see if this fixes your problems. >putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks > >btw, what are those last four ones? never seen >before. I don't know. I think that DavidG wrote our clist code?? >hb -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 21:46:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA06566 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06560; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA03835; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606140445.VAA03835@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Heiko Blume , john@ulantris.infinop.com, bill@twwells.com, stable@freebsd.org, bde@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adaptec disk controllers and 2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:24:55 PDT." <199606140424.VAA05482@freefall.freebsd.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:45:16 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >>putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >>putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >>putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >> >>btw, what are those last four ones? never seen >>before. > >I don't know. I think that DavidG wrote our clist code?? Yes, I wrote it. Bruce revamped/extended the clist reservation code, however - the reservation stuff I originally wrote was far too inadequate for the job. I haven't seen the above diagnostic for probably close to a year, and I'm surprised to see it pop up now. There haven't been any changes to the code involved in this for a long time (>6 months), so it seems likely that the problem is exposed by a change in activity on that system rather than by a code change. The diagnostic message is generally not a problem, but it does indicate a software problem that is most likely related to doing serial I/O to a port after it has been closed. ...this kind of problem generally falls into Bruce's domain. Bruce? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 21:56:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA07127 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07105; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id NAA03998; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA03809; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:54:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199606071954.MAA03809@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:54:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606071953.NAA00238@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jun 7, 96 01:53:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Try using it _seriously_ someday and no explanation will be necessary. > > > Suffice it to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with the > > > documentation. > > > > The problem with CVS is access protocol. > > No, the problem is that CVS doesn't handle diverging source trees very > well. The access to the tree is *completely* and *utterly* irrelevant > to the problems at hand, and just because you want it changed doesn't > mean you should get on your soapbox and call for it's implentation. > > Stick the to *problem* that's being discussed, not one that you (and > only you) consider to be a real problem with CVS. > > You're tryin to break the model that CVS was designed for, and this part > of the model is *NOT* one of the problems FreeBSD is facing now. Nate: you're wrong. The main argument against "let's get rid of -stable" is that -stable is known to be buildable. If -current were known to be buildable, it would support the argument for getting rid of -stable. CVS can reconcile source trees (merge branch tags) just fine... we did that sort of thing at Novell with a CVS version of three years ago, no problems. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 23:33:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA11347 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from voltimand.csd.wwwi.com (voltimand.csd.wwwi.com [199.1.92.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA11342 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cornelius.csd.wwwi.com (cornelius.csd.wwwi.com [199.1.92.20]) by voltimand.csd.wwwi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12113 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:33:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199606140633.XAA12113@voltimand.csd.wwwi.com> X-Sender: jdw@pop.wwwi.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:30:49 -0700 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: "Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse" Subject: Trap 12/supervisor read, page not present Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I guess I've been unceremoniously welcomed to the happy group that frequently gets this panic on a 2.1-stable system. I set the system up last week and it's been doing this pretty much the whole time, on pretty much any kernel I can build. I did some digging with the mailing list search on the FreeBSD home page, and though I found that I am not alone, I was not able to find reference to a solution or workaround, or even a "replace the ZZZ card with one from XXX and your problem will stop". Has anyone been able to suss out this error? Machine in question is a P90/64mb on an ASUS board w/ Adaptec 2940W and a 3c509. It sees light duty as a web server and some more duty as a news-pusher-arounder. Later, Jeff From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Jun 13 23:50:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA12479 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA12474 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA04177; Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:48:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606140648.XAA04177@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse" cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Trap 12/supervisor read, page not present In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:30:49 PDT." <199606140633.XAA12113@voltimand.csd.wwwi.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:48:59 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I guess I've been unceremoniously welcomed to the happy group that >frequently gets this panic on a 2.1-stable system. I set the system >up last week and it's been doing this pretty much the whole time, on >pretty much any kernel I can build. > >I did some digging with the mailing list search on the FreeBSD home >page, and though I found that I am not alone, I was not able to find >reference to a solution or workaround, or even a "replace the ZZZ >card with one from XXX and your problem will stop". Has anyone been >able to suss out this error? That's just about the most generic error that you can experiance. It's caused by anything which references a bogus pointer in the kernel. You need to provide MUCH more information about the crash. The complete trap information, info about which routine the trap occurred in (via the kernel namelist) or (better) a symbolic traceback if this is available. Just saying that you had a "trap 12" is not useful other than to say that you're having a problem of some kind. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Jun 14 02:39:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA25589 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 02:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from public.bta.net.cn (public.bta.net.cn [202.96.0.97]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA25530; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 02:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from robinson@localhost) by public.bta.net.cn (8.6.8.1/8.6.9) id RAA12045; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:39:10 +0800 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:39:10 +0800 From: Michael Robinson Message-Id: <199606140939.RAA12045@public.bta.net.cn> To: nate@sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: The -stable problem: my view Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The main argument against "let's get rid of -stable" is that -stable >is known to be buildable. No. The main argument against "let's get rid of -stable" is that kernel panics are antagonistic to getting real work done. Some people (such as myself) depend on FreeBSD to do real work. Some people (so far, not myself) need bug fixes or new features as part of doing real work, and would rather not wait 15 months between releases. >If -current were known to be buildable, >it would support the argument for getting rid of -stable. If release-quality code could be packaged every three months, *that* would support the argument for getting rid of -stable. -Michael Robinson From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Jun 14 03:38:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA05642 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 03:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA05636 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 03:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA01770; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 03:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 03:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606141038.DAA01770@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: werner@btp1da.phy.uni-bayreuth.de CC: stable@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199606131455.OAA00890@btp1da.phy.uni-bayreuth.de> (message from Werner Griessl on Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:55:52 +0000 ()) Subject: Re: lapack port fails in stable From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (redirected from -ports, quoted in full) You're sending this to the wrong list. ;) The program that's failing is ld, which is not part of lapack. This is a hardware problem (my guess) or a bug in -stable. Satoshi ------- * From: Werner Griessl * Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:55:52 +0000 () * * Today I tried to build the lapack-port from ports/math/lapack . * I can reproduce following error: * * ... * ... * ... * building shared lapack library (version 2.0) * Memory fault * *** Error code 139 * * Stop. * * from dmesg: pid XXX (ld), uid 0: exited on signal 11 * * I tried several reboots, the build always breaks on the same place ! * I run the latest stable from today (Thu Jun 13) * * Is anybody out there who can build it without problems with stable ? * Werner * * From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Jun 14 11:19:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA04755 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NS.Contrib.Com (NS.Contrib.Com [194.77.12.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04732; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from src@localhost) by NS.Contrib.Com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA13489; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:18:51 +0200 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:18:51 +0200 From: Heiko Blume Message-Id: <199606141818.UAA13489@NS.Contrib.Com> To: davidg@Root.COM CC: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, john@ulantris.infinop.com, bill@twwells.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199606140445.VAA03835@Root.COM> (message from David Greenman on Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:45:16 -0700) Subject: Re: adaptec disk controllers and 2.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "David" == David Greenman writes: >>> putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >>> putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >>> putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >>> putc to a clist with no reserved cblocks >>> >>> btw, what are those last four ones? never seen >>> before. >> >> I don't know. I think that DavidG wrote our clist code?? David> Yes, I wrote it. Bruce revamped/extended the clist reservation code, David> however - the reservation stuff I originally wrote was far too inadequate David> for the job. I haven't seen the above diagnostic for probably close to a David> year, and I'm surprised to see it pop up now. There haven't been any changes David> to the code involved in this for a long time (>6 months), so it seems likely David> that the problem is exposed by a change in activity on that system rather David> than by a code change. David> The diagnostic message is generally not a problem, but it does indicate David> a software problem that is most likely related to doing serial I/O to a David> port after it has been closed. ...this kind of problem generally falls into David> Bruce's domain. Bruce? i should add that these came on a serial console right after boot. the sun cu that is the console :-) looses carrier when the serial is reset, so it possibly is related to serial. can't see any bad consequences, tho. hb From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Jun 14 13:34:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA14807 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from voltimand.csd.wwwi.com (voltimand.csd.wwwi.com [199.1.92.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA14801 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cornelius.csd.wwwi.com (cornelius.csd.wwwi.com [199.1.92.20]) by voltimand.csd.wwwi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03156 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:34:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199606142034.NAA03156@voltimand.csd.wwwi.com> X-Sender: jdw@pop.wwwi.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:31:55 -0700 To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org From: "Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse" Subject: Re: Trap 12/supervisor read, page not present Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:48 PM 6/13/96 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > That's just about the most generic error that you can experiance. It's >caused by anything which references a bogus pointer in the kernel. You need to >provide MUCH more information about the crash. The complete trap information, >info about which routine the trap occurred in (via the kernel namelist) or >(better) a symbolic traceback if this is available. > Just saying that you had a "trap 12" is not useful other than to say that >you're having a problem of some kind. My mistake, I didn't have a copy of the dmesg on my hands at the time. Here we are: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x0 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf019ab26 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 22777 (sh) interrupt mask = net tty bio p\M^?\^Cge fault And here's the surrounding bits from the kernel: f019a818 T _pmap_is_referenced f019a9ac T _pmap_is_modified f019ab74 T _pmap_clear_modify f019acc4 T _pmap_clear_reference f019ae14 T _pmap_copy_on_write I will work on getting a symbolic trace, but I presently don't have that info. Hope this makes it more clear what is going on. Later, Jeff From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Jun 14 17:33:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA05970 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (root@RICH.ISDN.BCM.TMC.EDU [128.249.250.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA05963 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (root@richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu [128.249.250.37]) by rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA02530 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:33:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: (rich@localhost) by richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA09953; Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:33:36 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:33:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199606150033.TAA09953@richc.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu> From: Rich Murphey To: stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: how to check out old snapshots of -stable Reply-to: rich@rich.isdn.bcm.tmc.edu Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just in case anyone is interested in checking out old snapshots of the -stable sources, here's one way: cvs co -r RELENG_2_1_0_RELEASE sys cvs update -jRELENG_2_1_0_RELEASE -j'RELENG_2_1_0:1/7/96' sys Note that you start with RELENG_2_1_0_RELEASE rather than RELENG_2_1_0. If you start with RELENG_2_1_0 you end up with today's (7/13/96) version of those files which were tagged but not modified as of 1/7/96 on the RELENG_2_1_0 branch, such as sys/sys/types.h. Thanks to Peter and Rod for helping sort this out!! Rich From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Jun 15 05:34:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-stable Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA22997 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 05:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA22992 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 05:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id FAA19027; Sat, 15 Jun 1996 05:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606151234.FAA19027@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse" cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Trap 12/supervisor read, page not present In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:31:55 PDT." <199606142034.NAA03156@voltimand.csd.wwwi.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 05:34:17 -0700 Sender: owner-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Here we are: > >Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >fault virtual address = 0x0 >fault code = supervisor read, page not present >instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf019ab26 >code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 >processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 >current process = 22777 (sh) >interrupt mask = net tty bio >p\M^?\^Cge fault > >And here's the surrounding bits from the kernel: >f019a818 T _pmap_is_referenced >f019a9ac T _pmap_is_modified >f019ab74 T _pmap_clear_modify This appears to be a "known" bug. I didn't notice in your original message; was this with 2.1R or a recent SUP of -stable? If it was -stable, when did you SUP it? I just committed some fixes to CVS that might solve this problem. Can you update your kernel sources and see if the problem persists? Be sure you have rev 1.22.4.3 of vm_map.c - this was the last set of changes I made. The changes should be SUPable in about 3 hours from the date of this message. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project