From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 06:05:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA07615 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 06:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.dk.tfs.com (phk.cybercity.dk [195.8.133.247]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA07609 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 06:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.dk.tfs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06781 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:04:47 +0100 (CET) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: HP Omnibook 800CT "worldstone" Reply-to: phk@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:04:46 +0100 Message-ID: <6779.859125886@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HP Omnibook 800CT 800x600 Active matrix P5/133, 256K cache 16M EDO RAM 1.3G IDE disk FreeBSD-current CFLAGS= -O2 -pipe -------------------------------------------------------------- make world started on Sun Mar 23 07:58:28 CET 1997 -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------- make world completed on Sun Mar 23 12:24:24 CET 1997 -------------------------------------------------------------- 15957.18 real 11571.68 user 2374.43 sys Not bad for 3.75 lbs... Runs for about 75 minutes on batteries doing make world... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 09:27:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA14432 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from turing.ukonline.co.uk (turing.ukonline.co.uk [194.6.116.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA14427 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:27:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from lizard (lon1-8.ukonline.co.uk [194.6.117.136]) by turing.ukonline.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA16924 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:25:56 GMT Message-ID: <3335D8BE.459A@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:28:30 -0800 From: Benn Horton X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: CDROM driver Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have reconfigured the kernel to include the Mitsumi CDROM driver. It seems to allow me to use the cdrom but I'm not sure whether to use it though because I have an NEC CDR101 cdrom. Is there a driver out there for NEC or are NEC reselling Mitsumi cdroms? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 12:48:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28028 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28021 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:48:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA22994; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022992; Sun Mar 23 12:47:21 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA27684; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:47:19 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199703232047.MAA27684@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: tun0/user ppp lockups? In-Reply-To: <199703230554.FAA18935@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from Brian Somers at "Mar 23, 97 05:54:11 am" To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:47:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: archie@whistle.com, danny@panda.hilink.com.au, dfr@render.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The only problem is with dynamic IPs. What we really need is the > capability to trigger events that will tell natd (or whatever) > when an interface has been "changed"..... > > Then, natd could sit on an interface and do really smart things > rather than getting confused/restarted with every ifconfig. The "right" way to do this would be to listen to the routing socket, in which case you'll recieve a message whenever any interface goes up/down, renumbers, etc. This is what routed does, for example. Short of that, have natd re-check all the interfaces on a SIGHUP, or perhaps every 10 seconds or so (using ioctl(SIOCGIFCONF) to look at all the interface addresses). -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 14:16:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02422 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02416 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA07704 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:16:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703232216.OAA07704@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:16:38 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am looking around for a cgi script or Java program to help us organize the multimedia mailing list. Any suggestions? Thanks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 14:24:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02797 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02792 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA10304 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:24:10 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA19671; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:08:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970323230846.CO63054@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:08:46 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: termcap.db X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Why don't we provide by default? In particular on slower machines, it's a huge speedup in program startup time for programs using termcap. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 15:12:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05720 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:12:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.mrtc.org [199.4.33.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05712 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) id NAA00346; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:11:58 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199703232311.NAA00346@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703232216.OAA07704@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Mar 23, 97 02:16:38 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:11:58 -1000 (HST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty > >Hi, > >I am looking around for a cgi script or Java program to help us organize >the multimedia mailing list. To be honest I have always thought that a hypemail interface to the FreeBSD mail archives would be more usefull that the current search engine..... Most of the time (for me) that subjects lines are usefull enough for searches and (usaually) that articels back in 1995 dont really pertain to what I had been looking for even though they filter to the top. I thought you had looked at glipse once before? How was that? -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 15:16:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06075 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06064 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:16:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA08073; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:16:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703232316.PAA08073@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "David Langford" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:11:58 -1000." <199703232311.NAA00346@caliban.dihelix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:16:50 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I will take a look at it again. The last time that I peek at Hypermail it was poorly supported. And you are right a hypermail interface is desperately needed so we are going to experiment with the multimedia mailing and will report back to the list our findings Tnks! Amancio >From The Desk Of "David Langford" : > Amancio Hasty > > > >Hi, > > > >I am looking around for a cgi script or Java program to help us organize > >the multimedia mailing list. > > To be honest I have always thought that a hypemail interface to the FreeBSD > mail archives would be more usefull that the current search engine..... > > Most of the time (for me) that subjects lines are usefull enough for searches > and (usaually) that articels back in 1995 dont really pertain to what I had > been looking for even though they filter to the top. > > I thought you had looked at glipse once before? How was that? > > -David Langford > langfod@dihelix.com > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 17:50:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA17878 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:50:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from djo.com (djo.com [206.58.129.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA17858 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:50:15 -0800 (PST) From: hitman.jack@djo.com Received: from MHS by djo.com with MHS id BBCPDDBO ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:48:20 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:47:50 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: You tell me... To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, i hope i wrote this to the right place. Ok, well i have a freebsd problem. I'm too lame to figure it out so, here goes. Well, i NOW have freebsd 3.0 and was installing it with boot.flp for 3.0 as i should, and while i boted from the floppy it did its thing, and when it got to the end of decompressing the kernel, instead of going into the setup menu ( ive done it with 2.1.7 ) it does some weird stuff with the monitor. I have a VGA monitor, and a super VGA card on my cyrix686 with 8 megs of ram. Well, it just shows a bunch of colorful vertical lines spaced about a quarter of an inch apart, like it might be a conflict with the SVGA and only a VGA monitor, i dunno though. And each thing on the screen in symbolized by some other colored horizontal or vertical line. I can still type and interact with the setup program as normal, its just that the display is screwed up and i cant see anything. Run 2.1.7? no, that doesnt work either. 2.1.7 doesnt do the screen screw up when the kernel decompresses on the floppy, it does it when the kernel decompresses on the disk, after installation. The standard unix login thing has no colors in it, so i was even more curious why it does that. But just like before, i can login as root and do all the same stuff, just i cant see anything except the green line that is supposed to represent the #. And these are not those ascii lines, just some VGA stuff. Well i would really like to run freebsd and not linux so if you guys could help me out i would greatly and not linux. So if you could help me out. I would greatly appreciate and if you guys could help me out, i would greatly appreciate it. --- Sent via: Disk Jockey Online - Portland's Premier Entertainment System Send e-mail to info@djo.com for information Sent by: Hitman Jack hitman.jack@djo.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 18:56:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA20778 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [206.222.77.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20756 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA10021; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:51:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:51:03 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Mayo To: Amancio Hasty cc: David Langford , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703232316.PAA08073@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I will take a look at it again. The last time that I peek at Hypermail > it was poorly supported. And you are right a hypermail interface > is desperately needed so we are going to experiment with the multimedia > mailing and will report back to the list our findings I experimented with hypermail on the -questions archive. It worked okay, but hypermail dumped core fairly often. Apparently, there are some patches to make it work better. Also, I'm not sure about the licensing anymore - I'll go and check; I also heard about a "hypermail" pro or something.. If you want to see what it looks like, try http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark/FreeBSD and follow the link at the bottom of the page. I forgot to tell it to use a fixed-width font, otherwise it's a good setup. Now if it only worked all the time :-) -Mark P.S. I've tried glimpse for searching, but I found htDigg (on the site above) better overall. It was easier to use at least. I'm also looking into the "Lwgate" software.. > > > Tnks! > Amancio > > >From The Desk Of "David Langford" : > > Amancio Hasty > > > > > >Hi, > > > > > >I am looking around for a cgi script or Java program to help us organize > > >the multimedia mailing list. > > > > To be honest I have always thought that a hypemail interface to the FreeBSD > > mail archives would be more usefull that the current search engine..... > > > > Most of the time (for me) that subjects lines are usefull enough for searches > > and (usaually) that articels back in 1995 dont really pertain to what I had > > been looking for even though they filter to the top. > > > > I thought you had looked at glipse once before? How was that? > > > > -David Langford > > langfod@dihelix.com > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com RingZero Comp. http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GCS/O d- s+ a-- C++ UB+++$ P+ L- E--- W++ N+ K- w++(---) O- M- !V PS+ PE Y++ PGP+ t !5 X+ R- tv b++ DI+ D++ G+ e+(*) h--- r++ y+(+++) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Typically, I don't use JAVA -- I think that strong typing is for weak minds (and lazy compiler/interpreter writers)." -- Terry Lambert From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 21:30:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA27549 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:30:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au (daemon@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27526; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00738; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:30:04 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.7.5/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with SMTP id PAA17693; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:32:13 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id FAA16483; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:32:18 GMT Message-Id: <199703240532.FAA16483@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 To: current@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ctm src-cur not being mailed out? X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:32:18 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I haven't received any of ctm src-cur since src-cur.2815, despite there being a large number of commits announced since then. Likewise ports-cur has been pretty quiet as well. Any news? -- The views expressed above are not those of WorkCover Queensland, Australia. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 21:51:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA28850 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA28820 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA11404; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:50:04 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:50 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA03703; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:39:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id SAA13564; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:44:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:44:55 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199703232344.SAA13564@lakes.water.net> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: More "dup alloc" info. Cc: ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > However, using: > > if(cpl & bio_imask != bio_imask) > > checks in some suspect places (i.e. scsi_done(), biodone()) I haven't > > been able to verify this. (That is, none of them were tripped.) > > I hope you wrote it as > > if ((cpl & bio_imask) != bio_imask) > ... > > Otherwise, bio_imask is always equal bio_imask, and will be optimized > away by the compiler, so the entire condition always evaluates to > false. Well - look at me; manager of a C compiler group and I can't even get that right!!! In the words of Homer Simpson - Doh. [Hmmm... maybe I've been in management too long...] I'm *really* glad you pointed that out, and I feel really stupid :-) I'll try these all over again... - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 22:06:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00445 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:06:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00440 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:06:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id RAA32043; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:02:20 +1100 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:02:20 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199703240602.RAA32043@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl Subject: Re: random in kernel Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I see a random() in libkern. I'm wondering why we cannot >use get_random_bytes() in stead. This gives a much better randomness.. Because get_random_bytes() is much slower than random() and returns only a limit number of truly random numbers. I timed random() and read_random_unlimited() (which is similar to get_randon_bytes()) except it returns an unlimited number of bytes) on a P5/133: libc random(): 76 nsec/Byte kernel random(): 170 nsec/Byte (14 Instructions/B) read_random_unlimited(4 bytes at a time): 11780 nsec/Byte (> 1200 I/B!) (> 5000 I/B for new B) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 23 23:52:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04817 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:52:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA04777; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA16321; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:51:32 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22407; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:23:39 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970324082339.OG37907@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:23:39 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hitman.jack@djo.com, sos@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You tell me... X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from hitman.jack@djo.com on Mar 23, 1997 17:47:50 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As hitman.jack@djo.com wrote: > Well, i NOW have freebsd 3.0 and was installing it with boot.flp for 3.0 > as i should, and while i boted from the floppy it did its thing, and > when it got to the end of decompressing the kernel, instead of going > into the setup menu ( ive done it with 2.1.7 ) it does some weird stuff > with the monitor. I have a VGA monitor, and a super VGA card on my > cyrix686 with 8 megs of ram. Well, it just shows a bunch of colorful > vertical lines spaced about a quarter of an inch apart, like it might > be a conflict with the SVGA and only a VGA monitor, i dunno though. Søren, i've heard this from other people as well, somebody locally told me about a Hercules Stringray card where this happens. Usenet recommends pcvt as a workaround :-], do you have an idea what this might be, or even better, have a fix? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 00:16:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA05637 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ravenock.cybercity.dk (ravenock.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05628; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ravenock.cybercity.dk (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA05608; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:16:56 +0100 (MET) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199703240816.JAA05608@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Subject: Re: You tell me... In-Reply-To: <19970324082339.OG37907@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Mar 24, 97 08:23:39 am" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:16:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hitman.jack@djo.com, sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to J Wunsch who wrote: > As hitman.jack@djo.com wrote: > > > Well, i NOW have freebsd 3.0 and was installing it with boot.flp for 3.0 > > as i should, and while i boted from the floppy it did its thing, and > > when it got to the end of decompressing the kernel, instead of going > > into the setup menu ( ive done it with 2.1.7 ) it does some weird stuff > > with the monitor. I have a VGA monitor, and a super VGA card on my > > cyrix686 with 8 megs of ram. Well, it just shows a bunch of colorful > > vertical lines spaced about a quarter of an inch apart, like it might > > be a conflict with the SVGA and only a VGA monitor, i dunno though. > > Søren, i've heard this from other people as well, somebody locally > told me about a Hercules Stringray card where this happens. Usenet > recommends pcvt as a workaround :-], do you have an idea what this > might be, or even better, have a fix? >From remote observation it seems to be a problem with the card not understanding the normal VGA modetable (that the cards supplies anyway :( ), so removing any ways to reprogram the VGA regs cures the problem. If anybody has a spare card to send me I'll find a way to fix it, but doing remote debugging, well, I dont have the time currently... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 00:44:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA06729 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from cottontail.hobart.tased.edu.au (root@cottontail.hobart.tased.edu.au [147.41.41.147]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA06718 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:44:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by cottontail.hobart.tased.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA13373 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:44:18 +1100 X-Authentication-Warning: cottontail.hobart.tased.edu.au: andrew owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:44:18 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew X-Sender: andrew@cottontail.hobart.tased.edu.au To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Undefined symbol referenced from text segment (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I tried this on questions but didnt get any response so I thought I'd try here. Am I even on the right track? The thing I'm trying to compile contains source from passwd 2.2-R. Thanks, Andrew ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:27:13 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Undefined symbol referenced from text segment On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Andrew wrote: > Just to answer my own question I think the thing I was looking for was nm. Having said that I still cant find the thing I have to -l that contains: _pw_error _pw_init _pw_lock _pw_tmp _pw_copy _pw_mkdb _pw_error If anyone could help I would be most grateful. Thanks, Andrew From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 01:11:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA07891 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:11:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from moderato.snu.ac.kr (moderato.snu.ac.kr [147.46.102.43]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07886 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from junker@localhost) by moderato.snu.ac.kr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27946 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:11:58 +0900 (KST) From: Choi Jun Ho Message-Id: <199703240911.SAA27946@moderato.snu.ac.kr> Subject: EUC locales and XF86 3.2 for 2.2R? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:11:57 +0900 (KST) Reply-To: junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I want to know about two questions... 1. EUC locale support? I have installed 2.2R, it says:(uname -a) FreeBSD moderato.snu.ac.kr 2.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE #0: Wed Mar 19 21:51:45 KST 1997 junker@moderato.snu.ac.kr:/usr/src/sys/compile/MODERATO i386 But, it reports when I running perl: moderato:~% env LANG=C perl ^D moderato:~% env LANG=ko_KR.EUC perl warning: setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "") failed. warning: LC_ALL = "(null)", LC_CTYPE = "(null)", LANG = "ko_KR.EUC", warning: falling back to the "C" locale. ^D moderato:~% env LANG=ja_JP.EUC perl warning: setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "") failed. warning: LC_ALL = "(null)", LC_CTYPE = "(null)", LANG = "ja_JP.EUC", warning: falling back to the "C" locale. ^D moderato:~% env LANG=fr_FR.ISO_8859-1 perl ^D moderato:~% env LANG=ru_SU.CP866 perl ^D moderato:~% env LANG=ru_SU.KOI8-R perl ^D Is there no support for EUC locales in setlocale()? 2. XFree86 3.2 built for 2.2R? I downloaded all the stuff from (yesterday - 3/23) ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.2-RELEASE/XF8632/*, and I installed it from /stand/sysinstall.. I tested some example for Xaw(it is from O'Reilly's Book, Xt programming) moderato:~/work/X11/him/sample% ls Imakefile XTextEntry XTextEntry.ko xtextentry.c moderato:~/work/X11/him/sample% xmkmf -a imake -DUseInstalled -I/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config make Makefiles make includes make depend moderato:~/work/X11/him/sample% make cc -m486 -O2 -I/usr/X11R6/include -DCSRG_BASED -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DNARROWPROTO -c xtextentry.c rm -f xtextentry cc -o xtextentry -m486 -O2 -L/usr/X11R6/lib xtextentry.o -lXaw -lXmu -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXt -lX11 -lXt -lSM -lICE -lXext -lX11 -lgnumalloc ld: -lgnumalloc: no match *** Error code 1 Stop. What is that? And in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config/FreeBSD.cf... #ifndef OSName #define OSName FreeBSD 2.1.5 #endif #ifndef OSVendor #define OSVendor /**/ #endif XCOMM operating system: OSName #ifndef OSMajorVersion #define OSMajorVersion 2 #endif #ifndef OSMinorVersion #define OSMinorVersion 1 #endif #ifndef OSTeenyVersion #define OSTeenyVersion 5 #endif ... #ifndef UseGnuMalloc /* 2.2 doesn't really have GnuMalloc */ #if OSMajorVersion < 2 || (OSMajorVersion == 2 && OSMinorVersion < 2) #define UseGnuMalloc YES #else #define UseGnuMalloc NO #endif #endif Of course I don't have gnumalloc library. Is it a binary built for 2.1.5R? I failed to found the binaries built for 2.2R in ftp.freebsd.org, ftp.xfree86.org. where can I find it or is it strange only for me? -- --------------------------------------------------------------^^--- Judgement Uninfected Naked Kind & Executive Ranger - J U N K E R from KONAMI 1990 "SD-Snatcher" in MSX2 Choi Jun Ho http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker Distributed Computing System Lab, CS Dept., Seoul National Univ. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 01:43:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA09415 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:43:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from obiwan.aceonline.com.au (obiwan.aceonline.com.au [203.103.90.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09401 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.aceonline.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00313; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:38:30 +0800 (WST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:38:29 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Andrew cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Undefined symbol referenced from text segment (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What are you compiling / linking to? Cya. ADrian On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Andrew wrote: > Hi, > > I tried this on questions but didnt get any response so I thought I'd try > here. Am I even on the right track? The thing I'm trying to compile > contains source from passwd 2.2-R. > > Thanks, > > Andrew > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:27:13 +1100 (EST) > From: Andrew > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Undefined symbol referenced from text segment > > On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Andrew wrote: > > > Just to answer my own question I think the thing I was looking for was nm. > > Having said that I still cant find the thing I have to -l that contains: > > _pw_error > _pw_init > _pw_lock > _pw_tmp > _pw_copy > _pw_mkdb > _pw_error > > If anyone could help I would be most grateful. > > Thanks, > > Andrew > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 02:57:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA00237 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@mauve.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA00231 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from g.pet.cam.ac.uk [131.111.209.233] by mauve.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.58 #1) id 0w97Qh-0003lZ-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:56:43 +0000 Received: from g.pet.cam.ac.uk [127.0.0.1] by g.pet.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.59 #1) id 0w97Qg-00012U-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:56:42 +0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD as proxy server for mail client In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:14:13 MST." <199703220014.RAA16679@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:56:42 +0000 From: Gareth McCaughan Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I guess you mean 'popclient' here, rather than 'popper'. For Mark's > > benefit: popclient is a unix program which will fetch mail from a remote > > pop server and put the mail in your local Unix mailbox. > > Yes, sorry. I've spent too much time in the Qualacomm FTP site lately... Just out of curiosity, what does "popclient" do that "fetchmail" doesn't? I thought "fetchmail" was supposed to do everything that "popclient" does, only more and better. -- Gareth McCaughan Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics, gjm11@dpmms.cam.ac.uk Cambridge University, England. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 03:00:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA00237 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@mauve.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA00231 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from g.pet.cam.ac.uk [131.111.209.233] by mauve.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.58 #1) id 0w97Qh-0003lZ-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:56:43 +0000 Received: from g.pet.cam.ac.uk [127.0.0.1] by g.pet.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.59 #1) id 0w97Qg-00012U-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:56:42 +0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD as proxy server for mail client In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:14:13 MST." <199703220014.RAA16679@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:56:42 +0000 From: Gareth McCaughan Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I guess you mean 'popclient' here, rather than 'popper'. For Mark's > > benefit: popclient is a unix program which will fetch mail from a remote > > pop server and put the mail in your local Unix mailbox. > > Yes, sorry. I've spent too much time in the Qualacomm FTP site lately... Just out of curiosity, what does "popclient" do that "fetchmail" doesn't? I thought "fetchmail" was supposed to do everything that "popclient" does, only more and better. -- Gareth McCaughan Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics, gjm11@dpmms.cam.ac.uk Cambridge University, England. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 04:37:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA05835 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 04:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA05827 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 04:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA29393; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:37:27 +1100 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199703241237.XAA29393@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:37:26 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, after a days work, it's done. well, I think it works :) Some weirdness I found along the way included strange directory entries created by Windows NT (and I suspect 95 will do the same) which have the read only, hidden, system and volume flags set (i.e value of 0x0f). dump won't dump those because I don't know what to do with them. Unfortunately, restore doesn't work with the dump file created, but I'm not sure yet whether it is because it isn't a UFS dump or I've not done something right. What I do believe is that restore will need to be modified too, as the standard restore probably won't translate file permissions correctly, etc. It's reasonable efficient, Pass I and Pass II had to be combined due to the lack of a meaningful inode table type setup and is quicker than a recursive ls (as you'd hope!) of a disk. If you want to grab it and play, it is at: ftp://ftp.cyber.com.au/pub/unix/msdump.tgz If you look too closely, you'll notice that I copied and hacked on dump's .c and .h files, as well as copying .h files from /sys/msdosfs. This is pretty much just a reflection of the desire to "make it work" rather than "get it right", however I don't believe you can combine this with dump for ufs due to the nature of the code (global variables everywhere). If anyone has some comments (or bugs :), please send them. Ideally, if the code was cleaned up (along with .h use), it might be a candidate for including in a release. To make life a bit easier, I treated clusters as inodes (for creating the maps, etc). Oh, a few points on how I populated dinode: date + time -> atime, ctime, mtime user running dump -> uid, gid attributes -> mode size / sectors_per_cluster -> blocks Darren Sample output: % time ./msdump 0f - /dev/rwd2s1 > wd2s1.dump DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Mon Mar 24 22:27:25 1997 DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch DUMP: Dumping /dev/rwd2s1 (/dos/d) to standard output DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files, directories] DUMP: estimated 17359 tape blocks. DUMP: dumping (Pass II) [directories] DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [regular files] DUMP: DUMP: 17142 tape blocks DUMP: DUMP IS DONE 0.910u 2.355s 0:32.88 9.9% 341+4643k 7+290io 0pf+0w % restore ivf wd2s1.dump Verify tape and initialize maps Tape block size is 32 Dump date: Mon Mar 24 22:27:25 1997 Dumped from: the epoch Level 0 dump of /dos/d on freebsd:/dev/wd2s1 Label: none Extract directories from tape . is not on the tape Root directory is not on tape abort? [yn] n Initialize symbol table. restore > ls restore > % p.s. this is like real alpha stuff, version 0.0 if you like ;) p.p.s I used freebsd 2.1.6.1 src as a starting point for hacking. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 05:07:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA06902 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from bort.mv.net (root@[192.80.84.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA06897 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:07:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from logrus.mv.com (logrus.mv.com [207.22.5.64]) by bort.mv.net (8.8.3/mem-951016) with SMTP id IAA08814 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:07:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:02:48 -0500 (EST) From: Obi Wan Oblivion To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with math.h Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To Whom It May Concern: I am running 2.1.5 and cannot seem to get "sqrt" or "sqrtf" to work. A good example would be: #include #include main() { unsigned long int number,result; number = 64; result = (unsigned long int)sqrt((double)number); printf("The square root of %d is %d\n", number, result); return(0); } I build this with "cc -g -o" and get an "Undfined symbol _sqrt". Are these math functions not in the standard library, or am I doing something really bone-headed? Also, is typecasting appropriate in this case or will lint shut up and let me do the conversion? Thanks! -Jeff From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 05:50:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA08374 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA08367 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:50:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA17000; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:56:17 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:56:17 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Obi Wan Oblivion cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with math.h In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Obi Wan Oblivion wrote: > I build this with "cc -g -o" and get an "Undfined symbol _sqrt". Are > these math functions not in the standard library, or am I doing something > really bone-headed? Add -lm to options, so it will link math library libm.so -- Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 05:51:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA08416 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA08409 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA17006; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:56:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:56:39 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Obi Wan Oblivion cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with math.h In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Obi Wan Oblivion wrote: > I build this with "cc -g -o" and get an "Undfined symbol _sqrt". Are > these math functions not in the standard library, or am I doing something > really bone-headed? Add -lm to options, so it will link math library libm.so -- Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 05:52:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA08498 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA08489 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:51:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA17021; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:57:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:57:24 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Obi Wan Oblivion cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with math.h In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Obi Wan Oblivion wrote: > I build this with "cc -g -o" and get an "Undfined symbol _sqrt". Are > these math functions not in the standard library, or am I doing something > really bone-headed? Add -lm to options, so it will link math library libm.so -- Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 06:05:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA09012 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA09006 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA04868; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:05:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:05:12 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: David Langford cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703232311.NAA00346@caliban.dihelix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, David Langford wrote: > To be honest I have always thought that a hypemail interface to the FreeBSD > mail archives would be more usefull that the current search engine..... > > Most of the time (for me) that subjects lines are usefull enough for searches > and (usaually) that articels back in 1995 dont really pertain to what I had > been looking for even though they filter to the top. I'm currently working on an overhaul of the mailing list archives and will have several prototypes up for evaluation in the next month or so. The prototypes will implement a couple different methods for date control, the best will then become standard equipment. Retrieval by thread will follow; I have the basic mechanism worked out, but only partially implemented at this point. Two elements in hypermail, threading and date sorting, are good in principle but the overall implementation is clumsy and doesn't scale well. The current interface to the FreeBSD mailing list archives scales nicely, but is currently missing these features. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 06:22:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA09698 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA09690 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA04889; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:21:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:21:17 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EUC locales and XF86 3.2 for 2.2R? In-Reply-To: <199703240911.SAA27946@moderato.snu.ac.kr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Choi Jun Ho wrote: > 1. EUC locale support? ... > moderato:~% env LANG=C perl > ^D > moderato:~% env LANG=ko_KR.EUC perl > warning: setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "") failed. > warning: LC_ALL = "(null)", LC_CTYPE = "(null)", LANG = "ko_KR.EUC", > warning: falling back to the "C" locale. I'm just getting my feet wet in the FreeBSD l10n/i18n stuff, but I have discovered that to use an EUC or UTF locale, you must link with -lxpg4. Digging through the mailing list archives, I found a some messages the decision was made to remove >8-bit locale support from libc, but I didn't follow up and find the discussion of why. Could anyone involved in the decision provide a quick summary? On a related note, is anyone looking into implementing the Normative Addendum 1 to ANSI C? (multibyte/wide character support, see http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/na1.html for details) I made a (very) brief start but really don't have the time right now to work on it. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 06:31:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA10235 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:31:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu ([198.82.160.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10230 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA14838; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:31:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from jandrese.async.vt.edu (jandrese.async.vt.edu [128.173.20.208]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA27177; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:31:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:31:33 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Andresen X-Sender: jandrese@jandrese.async.vt.edu To: Obi Wan Oblivion cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with math.h In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Obi Wan Oblivion wrote: =)To Whom It May Concern: =) =)I am running 2.1.5 and cannot seem to get "sqrt" or "sqrtf" to work. A =)good example would be: =) =)#include =)#include =) =)main() { =) =) unsigned long int number,result; =) =) number = 64; =) =) result = (unsigned long int)sqrt((double)number); =) =) printf("The square root of %d is %d\n", number, result); =) =) return(0); =) =)} =) =)I build this with "cc -g -o" and get an "Undfined symbol _sqrt". Are =)these math functions not in the standard library, or am I doing something =)really bone-headed? Also, is typecasting appropriate in this case or =)will lint shut up and let me do the conversion? =) Ahh, you didn't include the math library. Try: cc -g -o sqrt sqrt.c -lm :::::::::::::::::::::::::::. . . . . ..:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: Jason Andresen :. . . . . . . . . : Web and FTP server at :: :: jandrese@vt.edu :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:: jandrese.async.vt.edu :: :.........................: Quote of the day :..........................: Nothing is more admirable than the fortitude with which millionaires tolerate the disadvantages of their wealth. -- Nero Wolfe :::::::::::.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.........................:.:.:.:.:.:.:.::::::::::: From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 07:26:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA13257 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA13252 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:26:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com ([144.54.57.34]) by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02709; Mon, 24 Mar 97 10:25:52 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA19900; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:22:59 -0500 Message-Id: <19970324102259.01850@ct.picker.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:22:59 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSWord docs... References: <8205.858809260@time.cdrom.com> <19970322183324.GD15929@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65 In-Reply-To: <19970322183324.GD15929@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Sat, Mar 22, 1997 at 06:33:24PM +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch: |As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: |> What's the latest technology on previewing MSword stuff under FreeBSD? | |I've seen a utility named `catdoc' or such, that does a pretty good I too would be interested in a pointer to catdoc. |If you wanna pay money, Applixware for Linux (distributed by RedHat) |runs fairly well on FreeBSD 2.2, and can read Word and other stuff. |People keep telling me that it runs *way* faster than StarOffice. |I've even heard someone claiming it runs faster on FreeBSD than on |Linux *grin*. >From what I last heard, Applixware filters including those for MSWord are trash. StarOffice has them beat hands down, reading and writing files in word format without many problems. Randall From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 07:42:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA14248 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.aval.zaporizhzhe.ua (aval-1-commit-14.4K.aval.zaporizhzhe.ua [194.220.195.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA14168 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by gw.aval.zaporizhzhe.ua id RAA13382; (8.8.5/vak/1.9) Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:38:47 +0200 (EET) From: dim@gw.aval.zaporizhzhe.ua (Dmitry I.Gren') Message-Id: <199703241538.RAA13382@gw.aval.zaporizhzhe.ua> Subject: Problem with include/machine/conf.h To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:38:45 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi,all! I am running 2_2_0_RELEASE and cannot find file included from /usr/include/machine/conf.h #ifndef _MACHINE_CONF_H_ #define _MACHINE_CONF_H_ #ifdef KERNEL #ifndef ACTUALLY_LKM_NOT_KERNEL #include "ioconf.h" #endif #endif /* KERNEL */ #endif /* !_MACHINE_CONF_H_ */ Where is ioconf.h file? dim@aval.zaporizhzhe.ua From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 08:23:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA16471 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:23:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16465; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:23:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01247; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:23:14 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02572; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:23:13 GMT Message-Id: <199703241623.QAA02572@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: brian@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: brian@utell.co.uk Subject: tcpchat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:23:13 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I wrote a (very simple) program a while ago called tcpchat. It has a rather self-explanatory usage of: tcpchat [ -t timeout ] host port [Expect [Send]].... Is it worth adding this as a port ? Or is there already something out there that'll "chat" tcp ? It's useful for "probing" for machines and/or services. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 08:40:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA17212 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexis.net (customer-1.ican.net [198.133.36.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA17174 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (james@localhost) by nexis.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA22031 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:36:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:36:32 -0500 (EST) From: James FitzGibbon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Replacement for strptime(3) ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm looking for a replacement for strptime in order to complete a port. The calls in the source code look like this : strptime(date,"%d-%b-%Y", &locTime); >From what I can tell, strptime is the inverse of strftime, taking a string in ctime(3) format, a format specifier, and returning a time_t struct. Unfortunately, the call is not including in the standard FreeBSD libc. If it's available as a standard add-on library, I'd be happy to port that and make the new port rely on it. Otherwise, since there is only one call to strptime and the format specifier is static, I could write a relatively simple wrapper for it. Any help is appreciated. -- j. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 08:53:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA17834 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.xtalwind.net (slipper2a.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA17827 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (zeus.xtalwind.net [127.0.0.1]) by zeus.xtalwind.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05996; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:43:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:43:49 -0500 (EST) From: jack X-Sender: jack@zeus.xtalwind.net To: "Dmitry I.Gren'" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with include/machine/conf.h In-Reply-To: <199703241538.RAA13382@gw.aval.zaporizhzhe.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Dmitry I.Gren' wrote: > Hi,all! > I am running 2_2_0_RELEASE and cannot find file > included from /usr/include/machine/conf.h > [snip] > > Where is ioconf.h file? /usr/src/sys/compile/MACHINE_NAME/ioconf.h -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Finger jacko@diamond.xtalwind.net or jack@xtalwind.net http://www.xtalwind.net/~jacko/pubpgp.html #include for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:03:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA18285 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:03:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [171.69.104.147]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18278 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00456 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:02:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703241702.MAA00456@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: "double fault" message Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:02:52 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm doing some kernel hacking, and my device driver is now getting the messge 'panic: double fault', and rebooting. Can anyone let me know what a 'double fault' is, so I can go looking for it? Thanks. -Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:08:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA18580 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:08:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA18575 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:08:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA22815; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:08:21 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:08:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Randall Hopper cc: Joerg Wunsch , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MSWord docs... In-Reply-To: <19970324102259.01850@ct.picker.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk speaking as an applixware user, i can tell you that the word input/output is quite worthless. I'm thinking of ditching applixware for star office for this reason. ron Ron Minnich |"I would point them out but ... rminnich@sarnoff.com | I have no hands." -- Coconut Monkey (609)-734-3120 | (see CM at www.pcgamer.com/coconut.html) ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:20:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19274 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:20:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA19203 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:20:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA22887; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:04:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703241704.KAA22887@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:04:46 -0700 (MST) Cc: langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Fieber" at Mar 24, 97 09:05:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Two elements in hypermail, threading and date sorting, are good > in principle but the overall implementation is clumsy and doesn't > scale well. The current interface to the FreeBSD mailing list > archives scales nicely, but is currently missing these features. We still don't message-ID stamp the messages on receipt by majordomo, do we? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:21:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19431 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA19421 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA22876; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:03:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703241703.KAA22876@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD as proxy server for mail client To: gjm11@dpmms.cam.ac.uk (Gareth McCaughan) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:03:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Gareth McCaughan" at Mar 24, 97 10:56:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just out of curiosity, what does "popclient" do that "fetchmail" > doesn't? I thought "fetchmail" was supposed to do everything that > "popclient" does, only more and better. Read RFC1957. Among other things, popclient *expects* a space following the "+OK" or "-ERR" response, on the (incorrect) assumption that all pop servers will supply message text with their responses. RFC1957 makes it clear that popclient does this in violation of RFC1725, and recommends codifying this *BUG* in your pop server implementation so that popclient doesn't have to be fixed. Stupid workaround for an obvious client problem, IMO. Similar workarounds are in place for the Eudora client (in the case of checking the "don't delete" option checkbox, it uses TOP to determine message uniqueness to avoid redownloading the same message) and NetScape (which uses UIDL under similar circumstances). Personally, if I were choosing between the two, I'd pick fetchmail. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:26:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19763 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19753 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:26:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA05389; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:25:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:25:30 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Terry Lambert cc: langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703241704.KAA22887@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > We still don't message-ID stamp the messages on receipt by majordomo, > do we? I don't know where they are getting stamped, but 100% of the ~40,000 messages I grabbed for header field analysis had message-ID fields, and the presence of in-reply-to fields was a very close match with subject lines beginning with "Re:". -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:37:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20481 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20471 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:37:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA23388 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:00:39 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 24 Mar 97 20:00:38 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA04368; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:00:13 +0300 (MSK) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:00:10 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= To: John Fieber Cc: junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EUC locales and XF86 3.2 for 2.2R? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, John Fieber wrote: > I'm just getting my feet wet in the FreeBSD l10n/i18n stuff, but > I have discovered that to use an EUC or UTF locale, you must link > with -lxpg4. Digging through the mailing list archives, I found > a some messages the decision was made to remove >8-bit locale > support from libc, but I didn't follow up and find the discussion > of why. Could anyone involved in the decision provide a quick > summary? Most of applications use 8bit wide characters now, so they are almost ready (with minimal modifications) to be POSIXly localized if locale is 8bits wide too. It means that standard FreeBSD localized programs can't work with 16bit wide chars/locale in any case, because they require major rewritting to support such characters. You can add -lxpg4 legally only if you are sure that your program support 16bit wide characters. If amount of 16bit wide programs will be bigger than amount of 8bit wide programs, we can make xpg4 mode as default and use something like -l8bit for 8bit wide programs. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:38:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20575 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:38:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from bort.mv.net (root@bort.mv.net [192.80.84.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20560 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from logrus.mv.com (logrus.mv.com [207.22.5.64]) by bort.mv.net (8.8.3/mem-951016) with SMTP id MAA20256 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:37:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:33:29 -0500 (EST) From: Obi Wan Oblivion To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: My math.h problems solved Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To all who helped, Thanks for the overwhelming response to my problem with math.h functions. I received almost twenty messages in less than five hours, all of which pointed to my idiocy for not compiling with "-lm". =) Once again, thanks to all. -Jeff ---------------------------------------------- And now, a random sampling from Fortune Cookie ---------------------------------------------- The word "spine" is, of course, an anagram of "penis". This is true in almost fifty percent of the languages of the Galaxy, and many people have attempted to explain why. Usually these explanations get bogged down in silly puns about "standing erect". From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:39:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20668 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20660 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:39:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA22977; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:24:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703241724.KAA22977@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:24:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Fieber" at Mar 24, 97 12:25:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > We still don't message-ID stamp the messages on receipt by majordomo, > > do we? > > I don't know where they are getting stamped, but 100% of the > ~40,000 messages I grabbed for header field analysis had > message-ID fields, and the presence of in-reply-to fields was a > very close match with subject lines beginning with "Re:". Look at Robert Withrow's messages (or anyone else using exmh). The "Message-ID:" is being provided by the mail clients, but not in all cases. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 09:59:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA22028 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:59:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22023 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA05484; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:57:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:57:21 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Terry Lambert cc: langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703241724.KAA22977@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > The "Message-ID:" is being provided by the mail clients, but not > in all cases. Although I'm not sure of the exact necessary conditions, sendmail (8.8.5 at least) will add a Message-ID if one does not exist already. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 11:02:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27693 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bellind.com ([206.101.34.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27684 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:02:17 -0800 (PST) From: RGireyev@bellind.com Received: from cdcexchange.bellind.com ([170.1.130.2]) by firewall.bellind.com with SMTP id <3661-1>; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:00:08 -0800 Received: by cdcexchange.bellind.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BC3843.6ABF0880@cdcexchange.bellind.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:06:26 -0800 Message-ID: To: Cc: Subject: RE: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:06:24 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Amancio Hasty >> >>Hi, >> >>I am looking around for a cgi script or Java program to help us organize >>the multimedia mailing list. > >To be honest I have always thought that a hypemail interface to the >FreeBSD >mail archives would be more usefull that the current search engine..... Halleluya. Gary (Clark II) are you seing these? > >Most of the time (for me) that subjects lines are usefull enough for >searches >and (usaually) that articels back in 1995 dont really pertain to what I >had >been looking for even though they filter to the top. Also, the most recent message/reply the search engine extracts is as of January 1997. Any chances of having something a little more recent like up until last week or maybe even last night? The reson being every two weeks or so I see the same question asked, trying to find a previous answer to it is truly an excercize in frustration and running nowhere fast. >I thought you had looked at glipse once before? How was that? > >-David Langford > langfod@dihelix.com > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 11:59:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01568 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01517; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:59:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199703241959.LAA01517@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:59:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703241704.KAA22887@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 24, 97 10:04:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Two elements in hypermail, threading and date sorting, are good > > in principle but the overall implementation is clumsy and doesn't > > scale well. The current interface to the FreeBSD mailing list > > archives scales nicely, but is currently missing these features. > > We still don't message-ID stamp the messages on receipt by majordomo, > do we? Terry, what a are you proposing? every message has its own message-ID providing by the orignating machine. please, clarify what you have in mind. jmb From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 12:30:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA03458 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA03453 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA23311; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:14:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703242014.NAA23311@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:14:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703241959.LAA01517@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Mar 24, 97 11:59:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Two elements in hypermail, threading and date sorting, are good > > > in principle but the overall implementation is clumsy and doesn't > > > scale well. The current interface to the FreeBSD mailing list > > > archives scales nicely, but is currently missing these features. > > > > We still don't message-ID stamp the messages on receipt by majordomo, > > do we? > > Terry, > what a are you proposing? every message has its own message-ID > providing by the orignating machine. please, clarify what > you have in mind. Well, we have exchanged private email on this, but I'll respond publically to this posting... No everyone uses sendmail. If you look at Robert Withrow's messages (as an example, not to pick on Robert) the "Message-ID:" is not present -- Robert is using EXMH, and he's not getting an ID stamp. I've seen the same thing on older SMTP servers (for instance, there are a number of machines behind firewalls that really don't need to do the "security update" process, and so are running with whatever version came from the vendor originally. What I'm suggesting is that there needs to be a "X-List-ID:" or something similar for mailing lists, _added by the list server_. We can be guaranteed that a reply to a message won't come to the list server before the message; even if we can't (CC: line has list in it instead of as the primary recipient), if you generate the message ID based on UTC timestamp and originator, you can still time-order thread messages witha given subject (and use "Re: " prefixing of the subject to get a full thread identity). The major problem is that mailers which don't use the message ID of the message being replied to in the generation of an "In-Response-To:" or similar header. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:06:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05867 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05854; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:05:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199703242105.NAA05854@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:05:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703242014.NAA23311@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 24, 97 01:14:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > Two elements in hypermail, threading and date sorting, are good > > > > in principle but the overall implementation is clumsy and doesn't > > > > scale well. The current interface to the FreeBSD mailing list > > > > archives scales nicely, but is currently missing these features. > > > > > > We still don't message-ID stamp the messages on receipt by majordomo, > > > do we? > > > > Terry, > > what a are you proposing? every message has its own message-ID > > providing by the orignating machine. please, clarify what > > you have in mind. > > Well, we have exchanged private email on this, but I'll respond publically > to this posting... please bear with me, i have forgotten..... > > No everyone uses sendmail. If you look at Robert Withrow's messages > (as an example, not to pick on Robert) the "Message-ID:" is not > present -- Robert is using EXMH, and he's not getting an ID stamp. hmm....my EXMH messages have a message-id but, that may not hold for all versions of EXMH Message-Id: <199703242000.PAA06207@kryten.frb.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: jmb@freebsd.org Subject: sent from exmh Mime-Version: 1.0 > I've seen the same thing on older SMTP servers (for instance, there > are a number of machines behind firewalls that really don't need to > do the "security update" process, and so are running with whatever > version came from the vendor originally. > > What I'm suggesting is that there needs to be a "X-List-ID:" or > something similar for mailing lists, _added by the list server_. okay, i understand what you have written so far. > We can be guaranteed that a reply to a message won't come to the > list server before the message; even if we can't (CC: line has > list in it instead of as the primary recipient), if you generate > the message ID based on UTC timestamp and originator, you can still > time-order thread messages witha given subject (and use "Re: " > prefixing of the subject to get a full thread identity). so what you want is for freefall (our mail hub) to time-stamp the messages? and indicate the originator? something like X-sequencer: 199703242000Z jmb@freefall.freebsd.org > > The major problem is that mailers which don't use the message ID > of the message being replied to in the generation of an "In-Response-To:" > or similar header. what software are you using to thread your messages, just curious ;) jmb From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:08:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06073 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06065 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA03471 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:07:47 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id WAA32058 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:07:36 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.5/keltia-uucp-2.9) id VAA19062; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:39:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19970324213910.41691@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:39:10 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. References: <199703241237.XAA29393@plum.cyber.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65,1-4,10,14-18 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3153 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Darren Reed: > Some weirdness I found along the way included strange directory entries > created by Windows NT (and I suspect 95 will do the same) which have the > read only, hidden, system and volume flags set (i.e value of 0x0f). W95 doesn't have that "feature". As NT 3 & 4 don't support VFAT, they have implemented long name support by allocating "hidden" directory entries for the long names, each of the entry can have a max of 12 characters. To prevent DOS to show these entries (when sharing a drive), they put the 4 attributes (in a normal DOS, this is not supposed to happen). It is one hell of a hack IMO (I was really surprised to see they have implemented it like that...). VFAT uses a hidden table for the long names so it doesn't have this problem. Terry will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #41: Sun Mar 23 23:01:22 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:13:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06560 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06555 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:13:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05956; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:11:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:11:39 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703242014.NAA23311@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > What I'm suggesting is that there needs to be a "X-List-ID:" or > something similar for mailing lists, _added by the list server_. But X-List-ID won't get picked up by the user agent when (if) it constructs an In-Reply-To field so it wouldn't really help in thread construction. If anything is done by majordomo, adding a genuine Message-ID would be the most useful. (Of course, only add it if it doesn't already exist!) > The major problem is that mailers which don't use the message ID > of the message being replied to in the generation of an "In-Response-To:" > or similar header. This is a problem, but (a) there isn't anything we can really do about it and (b) based on my analysis of headers, such mailers are responsible for a pretty small portion the messages. Pine and Elm alone account for over half the messages posted to questions. Thread retrieval will never be exact so long as humans are generating the discourse anyway. :) -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:28:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA08731 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA08726 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA23473; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:10:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703242110.OAA23473@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: jfieber@indiana.edu Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:10:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Fieber" at Mar 24, 97 04:11:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What I'm suggesting is that there needs to be a "X-List-ID:" or > > something similar for mailing lists, _added by the list server_. > > But X-List-ID won't get picked up by the user agent when (if) it > constructs an In-Reply-To field so it wouldn't really help in > thread construction. If anything is done by majordomo, adding a > genuine Message-ID would be the most useful. (Of course, only > add it if it doesn't already exist!) The benefit is in having a date-order stamp on message *that came into* majordomo. Using a date-order stamp in conjunction with a subject line and "Re: " rules for subject contents would allow us to time-order thread messages and their responses. The point is to be able to thread based on timestamp and subject, not based on "Message-ID:" and "In-reply-to:". You can (perhaps) generate a message ID if there isn't one, but you can't genreate an "In-reply-to" if there isn't one. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:39:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10425 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA10419 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA23531; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:23:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703242123.OAA23531@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:23:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703242105.NAA05854@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Mar 24, 97 01:05:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > so what you want is for freefall (our mail hub) to time-stamp > the messages? and indicate the originator? something like > X-sequencer: 199703242000Z jmb@freefall.freebsd.org Yes, or even "199703242000Z.jmb@freefall.freebsd.org" 8-). > > The major problem is that mailers which don't use the message ID > > of the message being replied to in the generation of an "In-Response-To:" > > or similar header. > > what software are you using to thread your messages, just curious ;) I'm not. I manually archive messages by topic (not subject) in elm, and then I don't need to thread them. But unless someone is willing to do this for all messages, not just the ones they find interesting, and share the results, this isn't really a good global strategy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:39:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10455 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10441 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.5/8.8.5/frmug-2.0) with UUCP id WAA24599 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:39:03 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xp11.frmug.org (8.8.5/8.8.5/xp11-uucp-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA00545 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:18:48 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199703242118.WAA00545@xp11.frmug.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Timeouts with Mitsumi CD. Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:18:48 +0100 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I have 3 CDs made the same way, using Gear and a CDR100 on a Sun. All are working on the Sun, and under Dos. Only 2 are working on FreeBSD. When trying to mount the last one, I get mcd0: timeout read data mcd0: retrying multiple times, then cd9660: /dev/mcd0a: Input/output error and the mount operation fails. I tried to change some timeouts in /sys/i386/isa/mcd.c without luck. What's wrong? P133 P55T2P4/32mb Mitsumi FX001D, version info: D 4 ------ ------ Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr (smtp) charnier@xp11.frmug.org (uucp) ``a PC not running FreeBSD is like a venusian with no tentacles'' ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:47:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10871 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:47:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10858 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:47:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06051; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:45:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:45:28 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: Terry Lambert cc: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703242110.OAA23473@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > The benefit is in having a date-order stamp on message *that came > into* majordomo. Ah, I see what you are getting at. I'm wondering if it would be less hassle to simply use the Received: header that sendmail on freefall attaches automatically: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19763 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:26:41 -0800 (PST) Stepping back a bit, for a variety of reasons, the headers need to be massaged before indexing, and that would be a prime time to extract the date from the Received line into a form more suitable for indexing and retrieval. I already do that with the Date field. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:55:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11587 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11578 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06074; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:52:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:52:57 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703242123.OAA23531@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > I'm not. I manually archive messages by topic (not subject) in elm, > and then I don't need to thread them. But unless someone is willing > to do this for all messages, not just the ones they find interesting, > and share the results, this isn't really a good global strategy. ...and the slight detail that no two people on the planet would agree on a topic structure, much less how to distribute messages among topics... Well, we could adopt something like the ACM classification system, but the second problem remains. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 13:58:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11903 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:58:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA11898 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:58:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA23592; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:42:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703242142.OAA23592@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: jfieber@indiana.edu Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:42:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Fieber" at Mar 24, 97 04:45:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The benefit is in having a date-order stamp on message *that came > > into* majordomo. > > Ah, I see what you are getting at. I'm wondering if it would be > less hassle to simply use the Received: header that sendmail on > freefall attaches automatically: > > Received: (from root@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19763 > for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:26:41 -0800 (PST) > > Stepping back a bit, for a variety of reasons, the headers need > to be massaged before indexing, and that would be a prime time to > extract the date from the Received line into a form more suitable > for indexing and retrieval. I already do that with the Date > field. OK... I was just thinking that the "massage" could be done by a local SMTP modification on freefall to put the stamp in the desired format, since it is a generated value anyway. This would save later header banging. But if you must do header banging anyway... then toy can go ahead and do it without worring about the issue. In any case, a known date stamp and Subject line should be enough to thread most data correctly. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 14:10:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA12903 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com (root@proxy1.ba.best.com [206.184.139.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12896 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:10:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA14884; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:04:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:04:22 -0800 (PST) From: Burton Sampley To: Obi Wan Oblivion cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with math.h In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Try g++ -lm. You need to tell gcc to link the math libraries with the -lm command/option. On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Obi Wan Oblivion wrote: > To Whom It May Concern: > > I am running 2.1.5 and cannot seem to get "sqrt" or "sqrtf" to work. A > good example would be: > > #include > #include > > main() { > > unsigned long int number,result; > > number = 64; > > result = (unsigned long int)sqrt((double)number); > > printf("The square root of %d is %d\n", number, result); > > return(0); > > } > > I build this with "cc -g -o" and get an "Undfined symbol _sqrt". Are > these math functions not in the standard library, or am I doing something > really bone-headed? Also, is typecasting appropriate in this case or > will lint shut up and let me do the conversion? > > Thanks! > > -Jeff > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 14:24:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13968 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:24:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA13958 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:24:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA27504; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:23:54 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17633; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:00:23 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970324220022.VH35420@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:00:22 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: bmcgover@cisco.com (Brian McGovern) Subject: Re: "double fault" message References: <199703241702.MAA00456@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703241702.MAA00456@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com>; from Brian McGovern on Mar 24, 1997 12:02:52 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian McGovern wrote: > I'm doing some kernel hacking, and my device driver is now getting the > messge 'panic: double fault', and rebooting. Can anyone let me know > what a 'double fault' is, so I can go looking for it? Thanks. Well, it's two faults in a row. But you already knew this, did you? :-) I think it might happen if you trash the kernel stack. The fault handler than attempts to run on this stack again, and triggers another fault. This will finally call the double fault handler, which i believe runs on its own small stack. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 14:29:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14408 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:29:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14371 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:29:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA27574; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:29:21 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA03359; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:34:59 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970324213459.CD43018@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:34:59 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: andrew@ugh.net.au (Andrew) Subject: Re: Undefined symbol referenced from text segment (fwd) References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew on Mar 24, 1997 19:44:18 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrew wrote: > I tried this on questions but didnt get any response so I thought I'd try > here. Am I even on the right track? The thing I'm trying to compile > contains source from passwd 2.2-R. > Having said that I still cant find the thing I have to -l that contains: > > _pw_error > _pw_init > _pw_lock > _pw_tmp > _pw_copy > _pw_mkdb > _pw_error > > If anyone could help I would be most grateful. These are defined in /usr/src/usr.sbin/vipw/pw_util.c. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 14:30:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14582 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14571 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA27586; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:30:15 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA09585; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:49:17 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970324214916.YH08116@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:49:16 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Cc: darrenr@cyber.com.au (Darren Reed) Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. References: <199703241237.XAA29393@plum.cyber.com.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703241237.XAA29393@plum.cyber.com.au>; from Darren Reed on Mar 24, 1997 23:37:26 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Darren Reed wrote: > Well, after a days work, it's done. well, I think it works :) Not bad. ;-) > Unfortunately, restore doesn't work with the dump file created, but I'm > not sure yet whether it is because it isn't a UFS dump or I've not done > something right. Restore shouldn't be much dependent on UFS features. Unlike (ufs)dump, it works at file level, not at disk level. > If you want to grab it and play, it is at: > > ftp://ftp.cyber.com.au/pub/unix/msdump.tgz Better name it `dosdump'? Remember, there's more DOSes than just M$. Also, we do already have a mkdosfs(8), maybe somebody would even write a dosfsck(8). (mkdosfs doesn't understand harddisks however. I'm not the right person to ask for this, my DOS knowledge is too weak.) Ideally, all this should probably named s/dos/fat/g. It's a more descriptive name of this filesystem. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 14:48:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16373 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA16368 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA23793; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:35:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703242235.PAA23793@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:35:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <19970324213910.41691@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Mar 24, 97 09:39:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Some weirdness I found along the way included strange directory entries > > created by Windows NT (and I suspect 95 will do the same) which have the > > read only, hidden, system and volume flags set (i.e value of 0x0f). > > W95 doesn't have that "feature". As NT 3 & 4 don't support VFAT, they have > implemented long name support by allocating "hidden" directory entries for > the long names, each of the entry can have a max of 12 characters. > > To prevent DOS to show these entries (when sharing a drive), they put the 4 > attributes (in a normal DOS, this is not supposed to happen). > > It is one hell of a hack IMO (I was really surprised to see they have > implemented it like that...). > > VFAT uses a hidden table for the long names so it doesn't have this > problem. > > Terry will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong :-) WindowsNT 3.5.1 implements long file names using directory entries with all bits lit, when running on a FAT FS instead of an NTFS. This is *exactly* the same thing that Windows95 does in order to support long names in so-called "VFAT". NT 4.x does this as well. The NT 3.5 file manager was a bit brain-dead about this... we had a number of product that faile Alpha and had to be fixed before ship because of this behaviour. The "hell of a hack" exists in all Windows 95/NT systems... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:02:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17178 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:02:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA17160 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA01562; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:01:57 +1100 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199703242301.KAA01562@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:01:56 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19970324214916.YH08116@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 24, 97 09:49:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from J Wunsch, sie wrote > > As Darren Reed wrote: > > > Well, after a days work, it's done. well, I think it works :) > > Not bad. ;-) > > > Unfortunately, restore doesn't work with the dump file created, but I'm > > not sure yet whether it is because it isn't a UFS dump or I've not done > > something right. > > Restore shouldn't be much dependent on UFS features. Unlike > (ufs)dump, it works at file level, not at disk level. > > > If you want to grab it and play, it is at: > > > > ftp://ftp.cyber.com.au/pub/unix/msdump.tgz > > Better name it `dosdump'? Remember, there's more DOSes than just M$. > Also, we do already have a mkdosfs(8), maybe somebody would even write > a dosfsck(8). (mkdosfs doesn't understand harddisks however. I'm not > the right person to ask for this, my DOS knowledge is too weak.) I'm told there already is a fsck_msdos for NetBSD...I just need to get a later rev. of NetBSD installed. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:11:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17684 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17677 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id KAA25338 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:11:08 +1100 (EST) From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199703242311.KAA25338@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: You tell me... In-Reply-To: <19970324082339.OG37907@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Mar 24, 97 08:23:39 am" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:11:07 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As hitman.jack@djo.com wrote: > >> Well, i NOW have freebsd 3.0 and was installing it with boot.flp for 3.0 >> as i should, and while i boted from the floppy it did its thing, and >> when it got to the end of decompressing the kernel, instead of going >> into the setup menu ( ive done it with 2.1.7 ) it does some weird stuff >> with the monitor. I have a VGA monitor, and a super VGA card on my >> cyrix686 with 8 megs of ram. Well, it just shows a bunch of colorful >> vertical lines spaced about a quarter of an inch apart, like it might >> be a conflict with the SVGA and only a VGA monitor, i dunno though. > >Søren, i've heard this from other people as well, somebody locally >told me about a Hercules Stringray card where this happens. Usenet >recommends pcvt as a workaround :-], do you have an idea what this >might be, or even better, have a fix? I've seen some weird things with three different Hercules Stingray (PCI) cards (two with ARK chipsets, and one with an Avance Logic chipset) on FreeBSD. I saw the problems (similar to what is described here) after running XFree86 (doesn't matter which server -- Mono, VGA16, SVGA, or even one not appropriate for the card). There seems to be a problem when it goes back to text mode. Using the same cards under Linux didn't show any problems like this. I haven't tried the pcvt driver yet, but it looks like I should to see if it makes any difference. I have never tried installing FreeBSD with one of these cards installed. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:14:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17944 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17936 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA13632 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:15:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:15:15 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" Message-Id: <199703242315.SAA13632@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2.1-RELEASE??? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk what is new in 2.2.1? -- David From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:36:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19633 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19628 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA10523; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:32:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703242332.PAA10523@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au (Darren Reed) Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:32:37 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:49:16 +0100 j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) wrote: > > ftp://ftp.cyber.com.au/pub/unix/msdump.tgz > > Better name it `dosdump'? Remember, there's more DOSes than just M$. > Also, we do already have a mkdosfs(8), maybe somebody would even write > a dosfsck(8). (mkdosfs doesn't understand harddisks however. I'm not > the right person to ask for this, my DOS knowledge is too weak.) ..actually... I'd suggest a naming scheme that NetBSD is using: newfs_msdos fsck_msdos mount_msdos dump_msdos The name is, of course, the string used to identify the file system in the vfssw[]. Just a suggestion :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:37:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19744 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA19735 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA23896; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:24:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703242324.QAA23896@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:24:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au In-Reply-To: <19970324214916.YH08116@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 24, 97 09:49:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Also, we do already have a mkdosfs(8), maybe somebody would even write > a dosfsck(8). (mkdosfs doesn't understand harddisks however. I'm not > the right person to ask for this, my DOS knowledge is too weak.) A fsck is relatively trivial. That's because there is no difference between a directory entry and a physical inode in the MSDOSFS... many of the checks performed by the FFS fsck are simply not applicable to the idea of checking an MSDOSFS. The biggest concerns of chkdsk are: o Clusters referenced by more than one file o Clusters that appear to be refernced, but aren't In the first case, the cluster chais are typically duplicated and unreferenced by the second file, makeing one of the files "whole" and the other "corrupt" (by definition, the situation can not arise in normal operation). In the second case, it asks "convert cluster chains to files?", and makes files to contain the chains. This, also, can never happen during normal operation. As far as directory entries are concerned: the unity of a directory entry and an inode means that you can never have an unrefernced inode, and you can never have an entry that references a bad inode. Again, this can never occur in normal operation. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:38:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19843 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA19838 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA01685; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:36:25 +1100 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199703242336.KAA01685@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: christos@nyc.deshaw.com (Christos Zoulas) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:36:24 +1100 (EST) Cc: port-i386@NetBSD.ORG, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Christos Zoulas" at Mar 24, 97 10:49:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Christos Zoulas, sie wrote > > In article <19970324214916.YH08116@uriah.heep.sax.de> joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) writes: > >Better name it `dosdump'? Remember, there's more DOSes than just M$. > >Also, we do already have a mkdosfs(8), maybe somebody would even write > >a dosfsck(8). (mkdosfs doesn't understand harddisks however. I'm not > >the right person to ask for this, my DOS knowledge is too weak.) > > > >Ideally, all this should probably named s/dos/fat/g. It's a more > >descriptive name of this filesystem. > > We do have fsck_msdos, and we are using your mkdosfs as newfs_msdos... > The dump should become dump_msdos... > It would be nice if we shared the same naming conventions. hmmm... dumplfs, newlfs, dump, newfs... ...newlfs doesn't really fit in but the convention of using prog_fstype seems to have merit (if dumplfs & newlfs are renamed too). but, with VFAT, FAT12, FAT16 and now maybe FAT32, is "_msdos" descriptive enough ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:42:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20156 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20128; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:41:25 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199703242341.PAA20128@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:41:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au In-Reply-To: <19970324214916.YH08116@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 24, 97 09:49:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > > Better name it `dosdump'? Remember, there's more DOSes than just M$. > Also, we do already have a mkdosfs(8), maybe somebody would even write > a dosfsck(8). (mkdosfs doesn't understand harddisks however. I'm not > the right person to ask for this, my DOS knowledge is too weak.) Doesn't either NetBSD or OpenBSD have a mkdosfs command? Maybe they even have a dosfsck by now...I remember seeing some man pages X-refs for it sometime ago, but the command was vaporware at that point. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@FreeBSD.org "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:43:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20228 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:43:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20217 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:42:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA11233; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:11:25 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703242341.KAA11233@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Problem with include/machine/conf.h In-Reply-To: <199703241538.RAA13382@gw.aval.zaporizhzhe.ua> from "Dmitry I.Gren'" at "Mar 24, 97 05:38:45 pm" To: dim@gw.aval.zaporizhzhe.ua (Dmitry I.Gren') Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:11:25 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dmitry I.Gren' stands accused of saying: > Hi,all! > I am running 2_2_0_RELEASE and cannot find file > included from /usr/include/machine/conf.h > > #ifndef _MACHINE_CONF_H_ > #define _MACHINE_CONF_H_ > > #ifdef KERNEL > #ifndef ACTUALLY_LKM_NOT_KERNEL > #include "ioconf.h" > #endif > > #endif /* KERNEL */ > > #endif /* !_MACHINE_CONF_H_ */ > > Where is ioconf.h file? It's generated by 'config' when you configure your kernel. Why are you including this file? > dim@aval.zaporizhzhe.ua > -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:50:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20810 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20805 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA11337; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:20:14 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703242350.KAA11337@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: "double fault" message In-Reply-To: <199703241702.MAA00456@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> from Brian McGovern at "Mar 24, 97 12:02:52 pm" To: bmcgover@cisco.com (Brian McGovern) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:20:13 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian McGovern stands accused of saying: > I'm doing some kernel hacking, and my device driver is now getting the > messge 'panic: double fault', and rebooting. Can anyone let me know > what a 'double fault' is, so I can go looking for it? Thanks. In attempting to report the fault that occurred in your driver, another fault has occurred. The most likely cause of this is you smashing the stack. You should have DDB in your kernel if you are doing driver development. Are you by any chance allocating large data structures on the stack? Note that the kernel stack is only about 7.5k small. > -Brian -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:58:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21336 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21330 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA10745; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:54:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703242354.PAA10745@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Mike Pritchard Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:54:28 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:41:24 -0800 (PST) Mike Pritchard wrote: > Doesn't either NetBSD or OpenBSD have a mkdosfs command? Maybe > they even have a dosfsck by now...I remember seeing some man pages > X-refs for it sometime ago, but the command was vaporware at > that point. NetBSD has had fsck_msdos for some time, actually... Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 15:58:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21418 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:58:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21410 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:58:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA10711; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:53:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703242353.PAA10711@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Darren Reed Cc: christos@nyc.deshaw.com (Christos Zoulas), port-i386@netbsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:52:59 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:36:24 +1100 (EST) Darren Reed wrote: > dumplfs, newlfs, dump, newfs... NetBSD has already changed at least fsck to fsck_ffs ... fsck is now a "wrapper" much like mount is. Eventually, we will have: newfs_ffs dump_ffs fsck_ffs mount_ffs newfs_lfs dump_lfs fsck_lfs mount_lfs ...etc. > but, with VFAT, FAT12, FAT16 and now maybe FAT32, is "_msdos" descriptive > enough ? The userland utility name should match the name used to mount the file system. It should be "msdos" unless you change the name of the file system (kernel sources included). Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 16:00:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21719 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:00:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21702 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA15911 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:36:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA11362; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703242337.PAA11362@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, bmcgover@cisco.com (Brian McGovern) Subject: Re: "double fault" message In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:00:22 +0100." <19970324220022.VH35420@uriah.heep.sax.de> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:47 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As Brian McGovern wrote: > >> I'm doing some kernel hacking, and my device driver is now getting the >> messge 'panic: double fault', and rebooting. Can anyone let me know >> what a 'double fault' is, so I can go looking for it? Thanks. > >Well, it's two faults in a row. But you already knew this, did you? >:-) > >I think it might happen if you trash the kernel stack. The fault >handler than attempts to run on this stack again, and triggers another >fault. This will finally call the double fault handler, which i >believe runs on its own small stack. Correct. The most likely cause is a recursive function call. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 16:29:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23496 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23487 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from news.clinet.fi (root@news.clinet.fi [194.100.0.3]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.8.5/8.6.4) with ESMTP id CAA19351 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:29:06 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by news.clinet.fi (8.8.5/8.6.4) id CAA14752; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:29:44 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:29:44 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199703250029.CAA14752@news.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: cvs usage Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Apparently my cvs is rusting or I am just missing something. I have checked out RELENG_2_2 from CVS with check checkout -r RELENG_2_2 and keep updating the checked out copy of the tree with cvs update but this apparently fails to update new directories in the CVS tree. /bin/chio and couple of files in share/doc/psd like 28.cvs were not updated, though Makefile was so make world failed. What am I doing wrong here ? -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi mobile +358-40-5519679 work +358-9-43542270 fax -4555276 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 18:31:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA00867 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00853 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from auchentoshan.pdl.cs.cmu.edu (AUCHENTOSHAN.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.189.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id SAA16734 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by auchentoshan.pdl.cs.cmu.edu id aa13679; 24 Mar 97 21:03 EST To: Terry Lambert cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au Reply-to: keep.me.off.the.cc.line@of.this.thread From: "Chris G. Demetriou" Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:35:21 MST." <199703250135.SAA24334@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:03:01 -0500 Message-ID: <12331.859255381@auchentoshan.pdl.cs.cmu.edu> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Curious: why aren't they using it as a prefix instead of a suffix? It > would seem to make more sense as a prefix, for all sorts fo string > manipulation reasons, including argv[ 0] and _ replacement with 0 > for string split issues... > > Is it just that SVR4 does it with prefixes, and NIH rules? "Ask the former members of CSRG, not us." They're the ones who started using mount_*. cgd From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 18:31:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA00904 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00863 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA16748 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:05:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA11475; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:59:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703250159.RAA11475@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:59:25 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:35:21 -0700 (MST) Terry Lambert wrote: > Curious: why aren't they using it as a prefix instead of a suffix? It > would seem to make more sense as a prefix, for all sorts fo string > manipulation reasons, including argv[ 0] and _ replacement with 0 > for string split issues... > > Is it just that SVR4 does it with prefixes, and NIH rules? ....there was already a (weak) precendent in BSD for suffixes... c.f. "newlfs". Of course, I don't recall checking what SVR4 did, either. It's not clear that it matters that much. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 18:31:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01152 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01077 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA16633 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA24334; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:35:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703250135.SAA24334@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:35:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au In-Reply-To: <199703242332.PAA10523@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Mar 24, 97 03:32:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > ftp://ftp.cyber.com.au/pub/unix/msdump.tgz > > > > Better name it `dosdump'? Remember, there's more DOSes than just M$. > > Also, we do already have a mkdosfs(8), maybe somebody would even write > > a dosfsck(8). (mkdosfs doesn't understand harddisks however. I'm not > > the right person to ask for this, my DOS knowledge is too weak.) > > ..actually... I'd suggest a naming scheme that NetBSD is using: > > newfs_msdos > fsck_msdos > mount_msdos > dump_msdos > > The name is, of course, the string used to identify the file system > in the vfssw[]. > > Just a suggestion :-) Curious: why aren't they using it as a prefix instead of a suffix? It would seem to make more sense as a prefix, for all sorts fo string manipulation reasons, including argv[ 0] and _ replacement with 0 for string split issues... Is it just that SVR4 does it with prefixes, and NIH rules? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 18:31:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01194 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01114 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA16714 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:58:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA24346; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:42:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703250142.SAA24346@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:42:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: darrenr@cyber.com.au, christos@nyc.deshaw.com, port-i386@netbsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703242353.PAA10711@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Mar 24, 97 03:52:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > NetBSD has already changed at least fsck to fsck_ffs ... fsck is now a > "wrapper" much like mount is. > > Eventually, we will have: > > newfs_ffs > dump_ffs > fsck_ffs > mount_ffs > > newfs_lfs > dump_lfs > fsck_lfs > mount_lfs Yes; I've been suggesting it for years... it's a good idea. One problem is that it wasn't too useful until the mount system call changes, and that didn't happen until 4.4 because we feared changing things that might get touched by the Lite2 integration (unreasonably, IMO). Other than inverting the name/program convention so all my ffs_ stuff will show in one area, all my mfs in one area, etc... I also wanted ffs_fstype. The fstype wrapper would call all available functions iteratively to identify the FS on a given device. Ideally, this would be implemented via VFS_IDENT() in each FS, and the kernel code would be responsible for recognition. Obviously, VFS_MOUNT would call VFS_IDENT internally. You would get at the IDENT either by calling mount with a "don't really" argument, or by ioctl'ing down to the device (and the disk device knowing the ioctl means iterate the installed FS types to identify the device). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 18:33:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01720 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:33:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01696 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from orchard.east-arlington.ma.us (sommerfeld.ne.highway1.com [24.128.53.76]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA16238 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by orchard.east-arlington.ma.us (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id BAA04463; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:01:09 GMT Message-Id: <199703250101.BAA04463@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us> To: Terry Lambert cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:24:04 -0700 (MST) ." <199703242324.QAA23896@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:01:07 -0500 From: Bill Sommerfeld Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [like the message I'm replying to, this message is CC'ed to both hackers@freebsd.org and port-i386@netbsd.org] For what it's worth, the fsck_msdos in NetBSD (and the MSDOS 5.x chkdsk) did not detect one case of file system corruption -- it was described as two files referencing the same something-or-other -- which was detected and fixed by the Win95 install program when I installed win95 on my DOS partition [1]. Does this ring any bells? - Bill [1] in order to placate the cable-modem installers from Continental Cablevision, who don't believe that PC's can run anything other than Windows.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 18:35:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02093 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02075 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from orchard.east-arlington.ma.us (sommerfeld.ne.highway1.com [24.128.53.76]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA16211 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by orchard.east-arlington.ma.us (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id AAA04432; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:56:25 GMT Message-Id: <199703250056.AAA04432@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us> To: Darren Reed cc: christos@nyc.deshaw.com (Christos Zoulas), port-i386@netbsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:36:24 +1100 (EST) ." <199703242336.KAA01685@plum.cyber.com.au> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:56:18 -0500 From: Bill Sommerfeld Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [note that this message, like the other message in this thread, is CC'ed to both NetBSD and FreeBSD lists; I think some of the authors didn't quite notice this..] > dumplfs, newlfs, dump, newfs... This analogy is a little broken, as dumplfs is akin to dumpfs, not dump; both dumplfs and dumpfs dump out file system structures (superblocks & cylinder group headers in the case of ffs) in human-readable format to stdout. - Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 18:35:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02234 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:35:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02165 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (USR2-1.detnet.com [207.113.12.34]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA16180 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:56:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA10416; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:54:46 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199703250054.SAA10416@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: RGireyev@bellind.com Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:54:46 -0600 (CST) Cc: langfod@dihelix.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "RGireyev@bellind.com" at "Mar 24, 97 11:06:24 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk RGireyev@bellind.com wrote: > > > >Amancio Hasty > >> > >>Hi, > >> > >>I am looking around for a cgi script or Java program to help us organize > >>the multimedia mailing list. > > > >To be honest I have always thought that a hypemail interface to the > >FreeBSD > >mail archives would be more usefull that the current search engine..... > > Halleluya. > > Gary (Clark II) are you seing these? > > > >Most of the time (for me) that subjects lines are usefull enough for > >searches > >and (usaually) that articels back in 1995 dont really pertain to what I > >had > >been looking for even though they filter to the top. > > Also, the most recent message/reply the search engine > extracts is as of January 1997. Any chances of > having something a little more recent like up until > last week or maybe even last night? The reson being > every two weeks or so I see the same question asked, > trying to find a previous answer to it is truly an > excercize in frustration and running nowhere fast. > > >I thought you had looked at glipse once before? How was that? > > > >-David Langford > > langfod@dihelix.com Sorry for including the compleate thing, but I could not figure out the best way to break it up:) Yes, I'm looking at it. I should latter on tonight have FreeBSD questions from 2Q 1996 to present (1 day ago) up in a hypermail format broken up by quarters. I'm also including my FreeBSD Tips & Tricks from my failed attempt at the BSD Journal. (I had looked around for stuff from the mailing lists and news groups on how to do things). Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 19:59:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA09943 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:59:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09937 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA13637; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:28:09 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703250358.OAA13637@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-Reply-To: <199703242341.PAA20128@freefall.freebsd.org> from Mike Pritchard at "Mar 24, 97 03:41:24 pm" To: mpp@freefall.freebsd.org (Mike Pritchard) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:28:09 +1030 (CST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Pritchard stands accused of saying: > J Wunsch wrote: > > > > Better name it `dosdump'? Remember, there's more DOSes than just M$. > > Also, we do already have a mkdosfs(8), maybe somebody would even write > > a dosfsck(8). (mkdosfs doesn't understand harddisks however. I'm not > > the right person to ask for this, my DOS knowledge is too weak.) > > Doesn't either NetBSD or OpenBSD have a mkdosfs command? Maybe As Joerg just pointed out, we already have mkdosfs. > they even have a dosfsck by now...I remember seeing some man pages > X-refs for it sometime ago, but the command was vaporware at > that point. Our overworked friend Robert Nordier was very close to having this sort of stuff ready last time we heard from him. It'd be nice to know if he's getting any more free time soon 8) > Mike Pritchard -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 20:00:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10119 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:00:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10010 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:00:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA13666; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:29:45 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703250359.OAA13666@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: cvs usage In-Reply-To: <199703250029.CAA14752@news.clinet.fi> from Heikki Suonsivu at "Mar 25, 97 02:29:44 am" To: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:29:44 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu stands accused of saying: > > Apparently my cvs is rusting or I am just missing something. I have > checked out RELENG_2_2 from CVS with > > check checkout -r RELENG_2_2 > > and keep updating the checked out copy of the tree with > > cvs update > > but this apparently fails to update new directories in the CVS tree. > /bin/chio and couple of files in share/doc/psd like 28.cvs were not > updated, though Makefile was so make world failed. > > What am I doing wrong here ? Not reading the CVS FAQ, manuals, or any mailing lists around here 8) The correct way to update your tree is with cvs update -Pd -r RELENG_2_2 which will prune old directories, build new ones, and guarantees that everything that comes out is at RELENG_2_2 (I have had problems with this if I don't explicitly supply the tag). > Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 21:14:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18228 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA18206 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0w9OZ0-00073i-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:14:26 -0700 To: Mike Pritchard Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:41:24 PST." <199703242341.PAA20128@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <199703242341.PAA20128@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:14:26 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199703242341.PAA20128@freefall.freebsd.org> Mike Pritchard writes: : Doesn't either NetBSD or OpenBSD have a mkdosfs command? Maybe : they even have a dosfsck by now...I remember seeing some man pages : X-refs for it sometime ago, but the command was vaporware at : that point. Last time I checked OpenBSD, it was just a renamed program from FreeBSD and didn't grok hard disks. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 21:32:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA19334 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA19329 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0w9Oqk-0000O8-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:32:46 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: A good way to... Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:32:45 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK. I'm looking for some good code that will drop privs, do some operation, and the restore privs. I'm not sure what the best way to do this. I'm thinking it is uid_t xxx, yyy; xxx = geteuid(); yyy = getegid(); seteuid(getuid()) setegid(getgid()) (eg fopen(zzz, "r");) seteuid(xxx); setegid(yyy); I think this does what I want to do, but can someone punch some holes into this before I commit code like this? Why am I asking this? It turns out that I'm starting to get reports of unintended side effects of some of the checkins that I made It would help if I was able to reproduce the problems here :-(. At least some of them should just drop and raise privs "like" this. This stuff always makes my head spin.... Also, if someone or someones would like to review anything that I do, please let me know. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 22:25:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA21904 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:25:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from pahtoh.cwu.edu (root@pahtoh.cwu.edu [198.104.65.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA21899 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:25:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by pahtoh.cwu.edu (8.6.13/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05590; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:25:04 -0800 Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12344; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:24:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:24:57 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs usage In-Reply-To: <199703250029.CAA14752@news.clinet.fi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here's what I do: cvs co -P -rRELENG_2_2 src to start out with (-P is supposedly implied by using -r but I put it there anyways.) To update, I've found that you still need to supply the -rRELENG_2_2 because directories (and the files contained within them) that are present on the main trunk (i.e. current) but not on the RELENG_2_2 branch will be created if you omit -r. This phenomemon will give you what I call a 2.2+ system which is neither desired nor typically buildable! For directories that were created on your initial checkout, sticky tags are present which will cause them to be updated as you expect. So for example: cd /usr/src cvs -q update -Pd -rRELENG_2_2 would be the way to update the tree you created with the initial checkout shown above. I suppose there are probably 49 reasons why this might be a goofy way of doing things but it has worked pretty well for me :) -Chris On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Heikki Suonsivu wrote: > > Apparently my cvs is rusting or I am just missing something. I have > checked out RELENG_2_2 from CVS with > > check checkout -r RELENG_2_2 > > and keep updating the checked out copy of the tree with > > cvs update > > but this apparently fails to update new directories in the CVS tree. > /bin/chio and couple of files in share/doc/psd like 28.cvs were not > updated, though Makefile was so make world failed. > > What am I doing wrong here ? > > -- > Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi > mobile +358-40-5519679 work +358-9-43542270 fax -4555276 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 24 22:33:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA22276 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:33:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from jazz.snu.ac.kr (jazz.snu.ac.kr [147.46.102.36]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA22271 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from junker@localhost) by jazz.snu.ac.kr (8.8.5/8.8.4-procmail) id PAA00057; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:26:55 +0900 (KST) From: Choi Jun Ho Message-Id: <199703250626.PAA00057@jazz.snu.ac.kr> Subject: Re: EUC locales and XF86 3.2 for 2.2R? To: junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:26:55 +0900 (KST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703240911.SAA27946@moderato.snu.ac.kr> from "Choi Jun Ho" at Mar 24, 97 06:11:57 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=EUC-KR Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk $)C Choi Jun Ho4T@G @L@| FmAv?!<-(wrote): :: 1. EUC locale support? Thanks for all who replied about this. It seems to be more clear to me about 16-bit locales... But I am now more interrested about below... :: 2. XFree86 3.2 built for 2.2R? :: :: XCOMM operating system: OSName :: #ifndef OSMajorVersion :: #define OSMajorVersion 2 :: #endif :: #ifndef OSMinorVersion :: #define OSMinorVersion 1 :: #endif :: #ifndef OSTeenyVersion :: #define OSTeenyVersion 5 :: #endif :: :: ... :: :: #ifndef UseGnuMalloc :: /* 2.2 doesn't really have GnuMalloc */ :: #if OSMajorVersion < 2 || (OSMajorVersion == 2 && OSMinorVersion < 2) :: #define UseGnuMalloc YES :: #else :: #define UseGnuMalloc NO :: #endif :: #endif :: :: Of course I don't have gnumalloc library. Is it a binary built for 2.1.5R? :: Will it fix in 2.2.1-RELEASE? or nobody care about this? If there are no more followups, I will submit it to gnats DB... -- --------------------------------------------------------------^^--- Judgement Uninfected Naked Kind & Executive Ranger - J U N K E R from KONAMI 1990 "SD-Snatcher" in MSX2 Choi Jun Ho http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker Distributed Computing System Lab, CS Dept., Seoul National Univ. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 00:29:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA28138 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28131 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:29:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA11653; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:28:18 +0100 (MET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199703250828.JAA11653@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:28:18 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703242142.OAA23592@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mar 24, 97 02:42:10 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > > > The benefit is in having a date-order stamp on message *that came > > > into* majordomo. [...] > OK... I was just thinking that the "massage" could be done by a local > SMTP modification on freefall to put the stamp in the desired format, > since it is a generated value anyway. This would save later header > banging. But if you must do header banging anyway... then toy can > go ahead and do it without worring about the issue. > > In any case, a known date stamp and Subject line should be enough > to thread most data correctly. I think something like a X-FreeBSD-List-Mark with date and sender of the message would be real nice for filtering. If you knew that it was always there in all mails from the lists, and it had a datestamp and all. Even if the indexing engine has to do major header parsing anyway, then at least people's filter wouldn't have to. That'd be nice, no? /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 02:01:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA01964 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01943 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id BAA17405 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06152; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:25:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703250925.BAA06152@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:42:10 MST." <199703242142.OAA23592@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:25:37 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > In any case, a known date stamp and Subject line should be enough > to thread most data correctly. Wrong ! either can be use for a search criteria and thats about it in this mailing list. Gosh, I am getting high from whatever you were smoking 8) Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 02:22:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA03398 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03391 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:22:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA22793 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:22:33 GMT Received: (from brian@localhost) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA28724; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:21:57 GMT Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:21:57 GMT Message-Id: <199703251021.KAA28724@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Reply-To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk Organization: Awfulhak Ltd. References: <5h2c01$4i2@reader.seed.net.tw> <5h6e83$1mk@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> From: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) writes: > Brian Somers (brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org) wrote: >: What's the argument for BS=^h ? > >: Surely everyone agrees that since the dawn of time, dumb terminals >: have sent ^? for the BS key. > > Only if you bought them from DEC after 1979, circa VT100. > > I've got (or had) a Beehive, ADM-3, Teleray 1060, Teleray 11M, ACT-V, > a genuine DEC VT50, DEC VT52, DEC LA36 (DECwriter II), DEC LA120 > (DECwriter III), a GE Terminet KSR printer, Radio Shack DT-1, and a > Wyse 75 (aka DT-100) AND ALL of these produce 0x08 when you hit the > backspace key, just like the Teletype ASR33/35/37s all did, > the original DUMB terminals. So did the Singer terminals and a dozen > brands long forgotten. Few, if any, had an option for changing what > code the backspace key produced away from 0x08. > > Even Hayes AT-compatible modems recognize 0x08 as a backspace by default, > not ^?. > > Sending ^? for as a substitute for backspace came along much later in > isolated equipment and as such is incompatible. > > That's why in the ASCII chart 0x08 is called BACKSPACE. :-) > > Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" > or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" > |"A what?" > or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 > I didn't realize this (any dumb terminals I've seen have been vt100, vt200 and vt220s, and looking in /etc/termcap (on 2.2) we've got 19 occurences of ^h and 1 of ^? :( Still, I prefer the ^? idea, mainly for emacs reasons (are there *any* other reasons?), but it's a pain in the ass getting syscons & X to work like this on every machine. The interresting "inconsistency" here is that the default erase character is ^? and the default keyboard maps send ^? from the DEL key - implying that it's "normal" to press DEL to rubout :( Then, to compound matters, the default .profile comes with an stty erase ^h (implying that someone decided it wasn't normal after all but didn't want to disturb the status-quo too much) ! I think we should have no stty in any .profile, and either of the following: * The Backspace key sending ^? and a default stty erase char of ^? * The Backspace key sending ^h and a default stty erase char of ^h The DEL key would send whatever the Backspace key doesn't. (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) Anything that deviates from the "default" needs to be stty'd in a .profile somewhere. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 02:54:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA05219 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:54:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ravenock.cybercity.dk (ravenock.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05210 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:54:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ravenock.cybercity.dk (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA10004; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:54:53 +0100 (MET) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199703251054.LAA10004@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-Reply-To: <199703251021.KAA28724@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> from Brian Somers at "Mar 25, 97 10:21:57 am" To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:54:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: *SIGH*, why does this come up again and again?? > > The DEL key would send whatever the Backspace key doesn't. > > (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 DEL = DELETE = 0x7f Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? Now, BSD then has a funny old behavior of having the std erase one char set to 0x7f, but thats only for hysterical reasons... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 03:33:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA07137 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 03:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA07125 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 03:32:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA01204 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:32:37 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:32:37 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Getting a 100Mbps card to work Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HI! The problem is simple - it (actually 3 of them) do not work with BSD (the others sit in Windows machines). Now the details - 1) Chip used by the cards - DEC 21140-AE (yes, AE). 2) Manufacturer - Dlink 3) Symptoms: As soon as FreeBSD de driver finds the card during the boot, it evidently stops functioning - more precicely, the LED on the hub that indicates the link status goes blank while the leds on the card indicate everything being OK. If you send something out of the card (when pinging some computer for example) the led indicating receive/ transmission flashes. The cards do work in windows (both 3.11 and 95). Any helping hands? Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 04:12:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA08591 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:12:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA08584 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA25031; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:12:01 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29866; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:11:25 GMT Message-Id: <199703251211.MAA29866@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren?= Schmidt cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:54:38 +0100." <199703251054.LAA10004@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:11:25 +0000 From: Brian Somers Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id EAA08586 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > *SIGH*, why does this come up again and again?? 'cos it doesn't make sense (*stir* *stir* *stir*). > > > > The DEL key would send whatever the Backspace key doesn't. > > > > (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 > DEL = DELETE = 0x7f > > Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them contradict their names ? BS = BACKSPACE = 0x7f DEL = DELETE = 0x08 > Now, BSD then has a funny old behavior of having the std erase one > char set to 0x7f, but thats only for hysterical reasons... And then it stty's it to 0x08 in roots .profile..... If people really insist on BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f, then so be it, but the default erase should be changed to 0x08 too (and the stty removed from roots .profile). > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. ARRRRGH ! I had to install metamail to reply to this ! -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 04:37:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09508 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ravenock.cybercity.dk (ravenock.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA09500 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:37:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ravenock.cybercity.dk (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA10221; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:38:01 +0100 (MET) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199703251238.NAA10221@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-Reply-To: <199703251211.MAA29866@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> from Brian Somers at "Mar 25, 97 12:11:25 pm" To: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:37:46 +0100 (MET) Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > > > *SIGH*, why does this come up again and again?? > > 'cos it doesn't make sense (*stir* *stir* *stir*). Yes it does :) > > > The DEL key would send whatever the Backspace key doesn't. > > > > > > (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) > > > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 > > DEL = DELETE = 0x7f > > > > Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? > > So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them > contradict their names ? Change emacs ?? Because "back space" in ascii parlour is 0x08, and "delete" is 0x7f thats why....go check an ascii chart... > > Now, BSD then has a funny old behavior of having the std erase one > > char set to 0x7f, but thats only for hysterical reasons... > > And then it stty's it to 0x08 in roots .profile..... If people really > insist on BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f, then so be it, but the default erase > should be changed to 0x08 too (and the stty removed from roots .profile). Well, I dont se whats wrong with changing it if one likes it another way, but we caould easily agree on the default erase char should be back space aka 0x08. This however breaks with BSD hysteria... > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > > .. > > ARRRRGH ! I had to install metamail to reply to this ! Welcome to the modern 8 bit age :), I like to se my name spelled with the right letters :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 04:50:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09882 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (196-31-98-19.iafrica.com [196.31.98.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA09877 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:50:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA18980; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:40:04 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199703251240.OAA18980@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-Reply-To: <199703250358.OAA13637@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Mar 25, 97 02:28:09 pm" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:40:03 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [CC list trimmed] Michael Smith wrote: > Our overworked friend Robert Nordier was very close to having this sort > of stuff ready last time we heard from him. It'd be nice to know if he's > getting any more free time soon 8) Well, it really is on the way, still, believe it or not (the vfatfs, that is). Lame excuse: Big corporate clients, with mean lawyers, and big, mean penalty clauses.... Anyway, progress continues to be made, every now and then, and little is currently left to do (mainly some foreign character set support, a few of the Lite2 changes in -current, and debugging). -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 04:53:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA10060 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (196-31-98-19.iafrica.com [196.31.98.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA10055 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:52:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA18965; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:33:09 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199703251233.OAA18965@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-Reply-To: <199703242324.QAA23896@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mar 24, 97 04:24:04 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:33:08 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Cc list trimmed.] Terry Lambert wrote: > A fsck is relatively trivial. > > That's because there is no difference between a directory entry and > a physical inode in the MSDOSFS... many of the checks performed by > the FFS fsck are simply not applicable to the idea of checking an > MSDOSFS. That a fsck-like utility for FAT/VFAT is relatively trivial, feasible, or even desirable, is a dangerous illusion. :-) What makes fsck itself possible is that the FFS was modified to make recovery (by fsck) a deterministic process. If processing is interrupted, fsck needs only enough smarts to know what the FFS was busy with, and therefore what must be done, or undone. A true fsck doesn't need to `know' the filesystem *as data*. But it needs a near perfect knowledge of the filesystem *as code*. Fsck doesn't really look for broken data structures and repair them, it identifies interrupted updates and completes them (rolling them back or forward). A fsck needs to be paired with a particular FS implementation, because it is (logically) an integral part of a *specific* FS implementation. With the DOS FS(es), the situation is too different. Even if the dozen or so DOS (or DOS FS) implementations all did metadata updates ordered the same way, these good intentions would still potentially be perverted by caching software/subsystems that don't provide (or are not configured for) `write through' operation. In addition, the DOS FS lacks a `clean' flag, so FS repair is not forced after a crash. By the time FS repair *is* attempted, there may have been multiple interrupted updates, undetected, each of which left FS inconsistencies, which then interacted to produce further inconsistencies.... Another problem is that a bug in any application can unintentionally modify the DOS filesystem code itself, or corrupt system tables. So however perfect the DOS FS implementation may be, its correct operation can't be assumed. Any kind of deterministic fsck for the DOS FS is therefore a pipe dream (except if only the BSD DOSFS implementation is ever allowed to update the filesystem ... not a realistic restriction, given why anyone is likely to be using a DOS FS in the first place). A DOS FS repair utility has to be heuristic. But to represent such a utility as fsck-like, makes false claims. A heuristic utility functions completely differently; and a heuristic utility hasn't a remotely comparable chances of success. Fsck also provides a very bad model for what a heuristic file repair utility should be like. When something has to be done, fsck knows what it is doing: so it needs a minimum of interaction with the user. To be of fsck standard, a sensible DOS FS repair utility really needs to be either: o A `smart' interactive filesystem debugger (which is, not coincidentally, why the Norton Utilities and PC-Tools were so successful on DOS) o A utility of a goal-seeking AI-type (not unlike a chess program) which can run a million `what if' scenarios before deciding, in the case of a cross-linked cluster, for example, which link to preserve. > > The biggest concerns of chkdsk are: > > o Clusters referenced by more than one file > o Clusters that appear to be refernced, but aren't > > In the first case, the cluster chais are typically duplicated and > unreferenced by the second file, makeing one of the files "whole" > and the other "corrupt" (by definition, the situation can not arise > in normal operation). Where one or more directories link to the same cluster, it may be impossible to resolve the situation sensibly. Asking the user only puts him in a maze of twisty little decision paths, all different; an arbitrary decision risks destroying nearly 100% of the filesystem; and an exhaustive, recursive analysis of the consequences is likely to take longer than the user (and/or the universe) is prepared to wait. > In the second case, it asks "convert cluster chains to files?", and > makes files to contain the chains. This, also, can never happen > during normal operation. If directories are involved, this can also totally scramble the filesystem. What I think the DOS FS needs is a sort of `lint'. I've been working on something that even offers optional advice like ``Warning: cross- linked directories exist: don't even think of running scandisk''. :-) Being lint-like, it only finds problems, it doesn't fix them. But writing a heuristic DOS FS fixing utility is probably the equivalent of writing a program to play a good chess endgame (ie. win or draw with three or four pieces on each side). AI hasn't solved the chess thing, and (after far too much time spent analyzing the DOS FS problem), I believe that doing a decent (theoretically satisfying) implementation would be a thankless waste of time and effort. -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 05:14:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA11001 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (USR2-1.detnet.com [207.113.12.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10994 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA13548 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:14:22 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199703251314.HAA13548@main.gbdata.com> Subject: New Mail archives at GBData.COM To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:14:22 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, This is too announce the new mail archives at GBData.COM. At this point I have the following available: 1. Hypermail archives of q2, q3 and q4 1996 for freebsd-questions 2. Hypermail archives of q1 1997 for freebsd-questions 3. Webglimpse search of the above NOTE: The hypermail archive indexs are fairly large (600k+) due to the fact that they are for an entire quarter. I'm still working on it and tweaking it, so some archives maybe offline. At this point you must search each quarter by itself, in the near future I hope to add area searches. There are still bugs due to the script I used to create the quarter files, if the mail message in question had a bad date string I tossed it. (less than 0.5%) I'm going to be adding freebsd-hackers and others. I will NOT be adding the commit lists (Not worth the effort....) The URL for my FreeBSD stuff (under construction) is http://www.gbdata.com/FreeBSD Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 05:15:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA11066 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:15:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (196-31-98-110.iafrica.com [196.31.98.110]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA11058 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:15:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA19119 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:11:16 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199703251311.PAA19119@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-Reply-To: from Warner Losh at "Mar 24, 97 10:14:26 pm" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:11:15 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Cc list trimmed.] Warner Losh wrote: > In message <199703242341.PAA20128@freefall.freebsd.org> Mike Pritchard writes: > : Doesn't either NetBSD or OpenBSD have a mkdosfs command? Maybe > : they even have a dosfsck by now...I remember seeing some man pages > : X-refs for it sometime ago, but the command was vaporware at > : that point. > > Last time I checked OpenBSD, it was just a renamed program from > FreeBSD and didn't grok hard disks. If anyone wants mkdosfs to handle hard disks, I can submit diffs. Adding this functionality struck me as a bit pointless, but I contributed a clone of the MS-DOS `format' utility to FreeDOS a year or two ago, so the DOS specifics are already worked out. -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 05:17:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA11199 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:17:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA11194 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from truk.brandinnovators.com (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 17229 on Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:15:47 +0100; id OAA17229 efrom: hans@truk.brandinnovators.com; eto: UNKNOWN Received: by truk.brandinnovators.com (8.7.5/BI96070101) for <> id OAA09331; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:09:02 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199703251309.OAA09331@truk.brandinnovators.com> From: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:09:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703251211.MAA29866@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> from Brian Somers at "Mar 25, 97 12:11:25 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Brian Somers wrote: > > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > *SIGH*, why does this come up again and again?? > 'cos it doesn't make sense (*stir* *stir* *stir*). > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 > > DEL = DELETE = 0x7f > > Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? > > So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them > contradict their names ? Because man 7 ascii tells me that: 010 bs 011 ht 012 nl 013 vt 014 np 015 cr 016 so 017 si .. 170 x 171 y 172 z 173 { 174 | 175 } 176 ~ 177 del ... which maps nicely to their ^ variants... Please, just because their is this one editor which gets it wrong doesn't mean there is a reason to change the basic character encoding of the rest of the system. Put this (for xemacs, dunno about emacs) (global-set-key '[(control h)] 'delete-backward-char) (global-set-key '[(control x) (\h)] 'help-command) in your .emacs and you're done. Hans -- H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 05:32:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA12024 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA12017 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:32:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id NAA28391; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:31:59 GMT Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:31:59 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Robert Nordier cc: FreeBSD Hackers , port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-Reply-To: <199703251233.OAA18965@eac.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Robert Nordier wrote: > Asking the user only puts him in a maze of twisty little decision > paths, all different; an arbitrary decision risks destroying Where have I seen this before? Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 05:41:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA12492 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:41:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA12485 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA04900; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:41:37 +1100 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199703251341.AAA04900@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? To: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:41:37 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, it took a little time to perfect dump_msdos...but there is still one major decision left, I believe: does a restore_msdos get written or does dump_msdos save directory information in a format compatible with restore_ufs ? e.g. the output from restore divf is now: % /sbin/restore divf ../dump_msdos/wd2s1.dump Verify tape and initialize maps Tape block size is 32 Volume header (old inode format) Dump date: Tue Mar 25 23:30:30 1997 Dumped from: the epoch Level 0 dump of /dos/d on freebsd:/dev/wd2s1 Label: NO NAME FAT16 maxino = 57345 Remove mask header Dump mask header Extract directories from tape Mangled directory: reclen not multiple of 4 Mangled directory: Mangled directory: reclen less than DIRSIZ (0 < 12) Mangled directory: reclen less than DIRSIZ (0 < 12) File header, ino 2; predicted 4 blocks, got 16 blocks resync restore, skipped 12 blocks File header, ino 3; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks File header, ino 4; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks File header, ino 366; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks File header, ino 489; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks File header, ino 1671; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks File header, ino 1672; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks File header, ino 2629; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks File header, ino 2810; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks File header, ino 2811; predicted 1 blocks, got 4 blocks resync restore, skipped 3 blocks . is not on the tape Root directory is not on tape abort? [yn] ^Crestore interrupted, continue? [yn] n which should come as no surprise to anyone. Question is what to do about it. I feel a restore_msdos is necessary but what do others think ? (That is remember there could be non-FAT16 information to restore, long file names, etc (which NetBSD is meant to support but I haven't yet checked that out). Darren p.s. I made a new tarball with a .c file "showconts.c" which basically dumps out all the header records in a dump file - this helped quite a lot in testing! ftp://ftp.cyber.com.au/pub/unix/dump_msdos.tgz From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 05:58:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA13143 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:58:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from veronica.elecard.tomsk.su ([194.58.240.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA13136 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:58:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from elecard.tomsk.su (novell.elecard.tomsk.su [194.58.240.1]) by veronica.elecard.tomsk.su (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12115 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:54:44 +0700 (TSK) Received: from ELECARD_P/SpoolDir by elecard.tomsk.su (Mercury 1.21); 25 Mar 97 20:58:09 +700 Received: from SpoolDir by ELECARD_P (Mercury 1.30); 25 Mar 97 20:57:33 +700 Received: from peter by elecard.tomsk.su (Mercury 1.30) with ESMTP; 25 Mar 97 20:57:25 +700 From: "Peter Gubanov" To: Subject: PPP and WinNT RAS Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:51:43 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC395E.585D7480" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <2BA37315DC8@elecard.tomsk.su> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ýòî ñîîáùåíèå â ôîðìàòå MIME ñîñòîèò èç íåñêîëüêèõ ÷àñòåé. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC395E.585D7480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Is it possible to dialup with ppp to WinNT box with RAS? I've tried several configs, but RAS rejects AUTHPROTO (??? - maybe smth. else). It seems it doesn't like suggested authentication method, and suggests it own (MS-CHAP - M$ can...), for which ppp replies with "not implemented, nak". Any suggestions? Except setup modem on FreeBSD - it is the simplest, but I have to use RAS :-(... Peter ------=_NextPart_000_01BC395E.585D7480 Content-Type: text/html; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PC9oZWFkPjxCT0RZIGJnY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiPjxwPjxmb250IHNpemU9 MyBjb2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwMCIgZmFjZT0iVGltZXMgTmV3IFJvbWFuIj5IaSw8YnI+PGJyPklzIGl0 IHBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIGRpYWx1cCB3aXRoIHBwcCB0byBXaW5OVCBib3ggd2l0aCBSQVM/IEkndmUg dHJpZWQgc2V2ZXJhbCBjb25maWdzLCBidXQgUkFTIHJlamVjdHMgQVVUSFBST1RPICg/Pz8gLSBt YXliZSBzbXRoLiBlbHNlKS4gSXQgc2VlbXMgaXQgZG9lc24ndCBsaWtlIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhdXRo ZW50aWNhdGlvbiBtZXRob2QsIGFuZCBzdWdnZXN0cyBpdCBvd24gKE1TLUNIQVAgLSBNJCBjYW4u Li4pLCBmb3Igd2hpY2ggcHBwIHJlcGxpZXMgd2l0aCAmcXVvdDtub3QgaW1wbGVtZW50ZWQsIG5h ayZxdW90Oy4gQW55IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zPyBFeGNlcHQgc2V0dXAgbW9kZW0gb24gRnJlZUJTRCAt IGl0IGlzIHRoZSBzaW1wbGVzdCwgYnV0IEkgaGF2ZSB0byB1c2UgUkFTIDotKC4uLjxicj4mIzAw OTsmIzAwOTsmIzAwOTtQZXRlcjxicj48YnI+PC9wPg0KPC9mb250PjwvYm9keT48L2h0bWw+ ------=_NextPart_000_01BC395E.585D7480-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 06:05:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA13503 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13491 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:05:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27268; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:04:46 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00250; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:04:45 GMT Message-Id: <199703251404.OAA00250@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) cc: sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:09:02 +0100." <199703251309.OAA09331@truk.brandinnovators.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:04:45 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Brian Somers wrote: > > > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > > *SIGH*, why does this come up again and again?? > > 'cos it doesn't make sense (*stir* *stir* *stir*). > > > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 > > > DEL = DELETE = 0x7f > > > Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? > > > > So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them > > contradict their names ? > Because man 7 ascii tells me that: > > 010 bs 011 ht 012 nl 013 vt 014 np 015 cr 016 so 017 si > .. > 170 x 171 y 172 z 173 { 174 | 175 } 176 ~ 177 del > ... > > which maps nicely to their ^ variants... Please, just because > their is this one editor which gets it wrong doesn't mean there is > a reason to change the basic character encoding of the rest of the > system. Put this (for xemacs, dunno about emacs) Yep - I guess you're right. So my problem remains: why is the "erase" character set to ^? by default ? > (global-set-key '[(control h)] 'delete-backward-char) > (global-set-key '[(control x) (\h)] 'help-command) > > in your .emacs and you're done. Yep - it'd work the same for emacs. > Hans > > -- > H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com > Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 > de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands > 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 06:09:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA13690 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13685 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:09:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27368; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:09:38 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00279; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:09:38 GMT Message-Id: <199703251409.OAA00279@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren?= Schmidt cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:37:46 +0100." <199703251238.NAA10221@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:09:38 +0000 From: Brian Somers Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id GAA13686 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > > > > > *SIGH*, why does this come up again and again?? > > > > 'cos it doesn't make sense (*stir* *stir* *stir*). > > Yes it does :) > > > > > The DEL key would send whatever the Backspace key doesn't. > > > > > > > > (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) > > > > > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 > > > DEL = DELETE = 0x7f > > > > > > Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? > > > > So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them > > contradict their names ? > > Change emacs ?? > > Because "back space" in ascii parlour is 0x08, and "delete" is 0x7f > thats why....go check an ascii chart... Yep - it just occurred to me to look at an ascii chart. > > > Now, BSD then has a funny old behavior of having the std erase one > > > char set to 0x7f, but thats only for hysterical reasons... > > > > And then it stty's it to 0x08 in roots .profile..... If people really > > insist on BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f, then so be it, but the default erase > > should be changed to 0x08 too (and the stty removed from roots .profile). > > Well, I dont se whats wrong with changing it if one likes it another > way, but we caould easily agree on the default erase char should be > back space aka 0x08. This however breaks with BSD hysteria... Ok, so this is my point. The hysterical idea is wrong :) I now agree that 0x08 is the right thing to send for a BS, so we need to have the default erase as 0x08 and remove the stty from /.profile and /root/.profile (a link anyway). Any disagreements (freebsd-hackers) ? > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > > > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > > > .. > > > > ARRRRGH ! I had to install metamail to reply to this ! > > Welcome to the modern 8 bit age :), I like to se my name > spelled with the right letters :) > grumble. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 06:13:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA13986 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:13:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA13961 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA29753; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:12:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:12:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: more Mac vs BSD (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk now what planet were these tests performed on? ron Ron Minnich |"I would point them out but ... rminnich@sarnoff.com | I have no hands." -- Coconut Monkey (609)-734-3120 | (see CM at www.pcgamer.com/coconut.html) ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:10:16 GMT To: rminnich@sarnoff.com Subject: more Mac vs BSD * In Apple's testing on a 10 Mbps Ethernet network, Open Transport could sustain throughput of 9.6 Mbps. In contrast BSD could only sustain 7 Mbps (and the venerable MacTCP could only do 2.3 Mbps). That may not sound like a huge difference, but what about a 100 Mbps Ethernet network? Open Transport has been shown to sustain 40 Mbps on those networks - how well will BSD do? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 06:17:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA14218 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA14212 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mangle.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (mangle-qmw.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.95.250]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id GAA17799 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from md@ruby [138.37.88.139]; by mangle.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5/S-4.0) with ESMTP; id OAA02340; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:12:09 GMT Received: from md@localhost; by ruby.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4/C-3.2); id OAA08617; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:12:08 GMT Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:12:08 GMT From: Mark Dawson Message-Id: <199703251412.OAA08617@ruby.dcs.qmw.ac.uk> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Compaq Smart-2/P RAID controller results Cc: programmers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We have recently bought a Compaq ProLiant 800 200MHz PPRO and had a chance to try out the SMART-2/P controller with six 4.3GB wide-ultra 1" disks (H RAID5 and H RAID0 below) under 2.2-RELEASE using our locally developed driver (). Below is a comparison of the performance of the Compaq SMART-2/P controller with: the older Compaq SMART controller (M RAID5); a CCD of four legacy Wren-VII disks (I CCD); a logical disk of four older fast-narrow 1GB disks (I RAID5); a striped configuration of the six 4.3GB disks (H RAID0); and an internal 4.3GB wide scsi disk. BONNIE RESULTS-----Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU I CCD 300 1118 97.8 2031 13.1 1195 12.1 1126 97.8 3068 17.5 46.8 3.4 M RAID5 100 3427 82.9 3356 23.3 2265 18.0 4168 90.1 5649 25.2 181.5 8.9 I RAID5 300 1161 99.0 1691 13.6 1688 18.0 1157 98.8 6582 37.8 43.7 2.7 H RAID5 300 5542 49.2 5328 11.9 4826 15.4 9222 86.9 16673 34.4 115.1 2.6 H RAID0 300 11615 98.3 15231 36.9 9096 27.1 10532 98.0 16073 30.7 131.6 2.6 H disk 300 3199 28.0 3277 6.5 1726 4.4 6666 61.0 6271 7.1 100.5 1.6 where RAID5 = distributed data guarding, RAID0 = no fault tolerance striped (e.g. CCD) and the configurations are: I = Compaq ProSignia 300 5/120 16MB (IRON) 2.2-RELEASE I RAID5 = 4 x 1GB fast-narrow = 3GB RAID-5 logical disk on SMART-2/P I CCD = 4 x 1GB Wren-VIIs = 4GB concatenated disk on NCR 53c810 scsi (32 block interleave) H = Compaq ProLiant 800 6/200 96MB (HOTPOINT) 2.2-RELEASE H RAID5 = 6 x 4.3GB wide-ultra = 20GB RAID-5 logical disk on SMART-2/P H RAID0 = 6 x 4.3GB wide-ultra = 24GB RAID-0 logical disk on SMART-2/P H disk = 1 x 4.3GB wide-ultra = 4GB disk on NCR 53c875 wide scsi [from 8th October 1995] M = Compaq ProLiant 1500 5/120 80MB (MANGLE) 2.1-STABLE M RAID5 = 5 x 4.3GB = 16GB RAID-5 logical disk on SMART (old controller) The figures show quite a hit in write performance with RAID5 versus RAID0 but otherwise show that the SMART-2/P is a considerable improvement over Compaq's previous controller. Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 06:57:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA16354 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16345 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28308; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:57:03 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00459; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:56:27 GMT Message-Id: <199703251456.OAA00459@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Andrew Gierth Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:56:27 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I thought this might contribute to the discussion: ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.net [97.0.0.89]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00336 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:30:55 GMT Received: from relay-11.mail.demon.net (relay-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.137]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27768 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:30:54 GMT Received: from erlenstar.demon.co.uk ([194.222.144.22]) by relay-10.mail.demon.net id aa1020993; 25 Mar 97 14:19 GMT Received: (from andrew@localhost) by erlenstar.demon.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) id NAA24689; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:43:15 GMT Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <5h2c01$4i2@reader.seed.net.tw> <5h6e83$1mk@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <5h8905$lj1@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> From: Andrew Gierth Organization: disorganised X-Mayan-Date: Long count = 12.19.4.0.8; tzolkin = 11 Lamat; haab = 11 Cumku X-Attribution: AG Date: 25 Mar 1997 13:43:14 +0000 Message-ID: <87g1xkqe8d.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> Lines: 38 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 In-Reply-To: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org's message of 25 Mar 1997 10:21:57 GMT Posted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted as well. >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Somers writes: Brian> I think we should have no stty in any .profile, and either of the Brian> following: Brian> * The Backspace key sending ^? and a default stty erase char of ^? Brian> * The Backspace key sending ^h and a default stty erase char of ^h Brian> The DEL key would send whatever the Backspace key doesn't. Brian> (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) DEL=^h ?? You have *got* to be kidding. This whole debate (which gets thrashed out regularly in comp.emacs) always originates from a confusion between destructive and non-destructive backspaces. The ASCII BS character (0x08) is, from the point of view of an output device, an instruction to move back one position, non-destructively. The ASCII DEL (0x7f) is an artifact of paper tape; a character can be erased from a tape by punching all the holes out, leaving a DEL, which is then ignored. (A vestige of this remains in some systems where DEL can be used for padding instead of NUL.) It's no more correct to use ^h as a destructive backspace than any other control character, whereas DEL has always been associated with the concept of "delete last input character". >From a user's point of view, and assuming a PC keyboard, there are two keys to consider; the <- (backspace) key, and the "Delete" key. Normal user expectations require <- to behave as a *destructive* backspace, and "Delete" to be 'delete character forward' (kdch1 in terminfo-speek). This can best be achieved by having <- generate DEL, having "Delete" generate an escape sequence, and defaulting to 'stty erase ^?'. (Which is what I have done on my system, and have done in the past to many other Unix flavours, terminals and terminal emulators.) This leaves ^h free, which keeps Emacs happy. Having "Delete" generate ^h is insane, and likely to confuse people considerably. - -- Andrew. ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 07:00:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA16556 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:00:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from alcatel.fr (gatekeeper.alcatel.fr [194.133.58.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16534; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from alcatel.fr (gatekeeper-ssn.alcatel.fr [155.132.180.244]) by mailgate.alcatel.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30810; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:04:54 +0100 Received: from dnscit.cit.alcatel.fr (dnscit.cit.alcatel.fr [139.54.100.2]) by nsfhh5.alcatel.fr (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10461; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:00:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from dnsvz.vz.cit.alcatel.fr by dnscit.cit.alcatel.fr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA21227; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:02:37 +0100 Received: from bcv64s3e.vz.cit.alcatel.fr by dnsvz.vz.cit.alcatel.fr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA04855; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:45:01 +0100 Received: from bcv64w34.velizy by bcv64s3e.vz.cit.alcatel.fr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA12941; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:57:40 +0100 From: luc.lewy@vz.cit.alcatel.fr (Luc.LEWY) Message-Id: <199703251457.PAA12941@bcv64s3e.vz.cit.alcatel.fr> Subject: Re: tcpchat To: brian@utell.co.uk Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:57:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, brian@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703241623.QAA02572@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> from "Brian Somers" at Mar 24, 97 04:23:13 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Somers wrote: > > Is it worth adding this as a port ? Or is there already something > out there that'll "chat" tcp ? It's useful for "probing" for > machines and/or services. mm.. To probe openned TCP port, you could use ISS 1.3 it compil fine on FreeBSD 2.1.5 and FreeBSD 2.1.0 --- PART OF readme.iss --- Internet Security Scanner, v1.3 Copyright (c) Christopher Klaus, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995. [ snip snip ] http://iss.net/iss ftp ftp.iss.net:/pub/iss mail info@iss.net "send index" in body of message. [ snip snip ] --- END --- The complete readme file is 10kb long.. If you want it, email me.. hope this helps. fifi.. -- Guezou "fifi..." Philippe email: guezou_p@epita.fr pguezou@iway.fr luc.lewy@vz.cit.alcatel.fr -=< FreeBSD 2.1[.5] User >=-.oOo.-=<*>=-.oOo.-=< FreeBSD 2.1[.5] Developper >=- *** M$-Windows is not a Virus - Viruses do something *** From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 07:04:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA16727 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:04:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA16717 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:04:36 -0800 (PST) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 9173 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Mar 1997 15:04:05 +0000 (GMT) To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: more Mac vs BSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:12:54 -0500 (EST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:04:05 +0100 Message-ID: <9171.859302245@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > now what planet were these tests performed on? > > * In Apple's testing on a 10 Mbps Ethernet network, Open Transport > could sustain throughput of 9.6 Mbps. In contrast BSD could only > sustain 7 Mbps (and the venerable MacTCP could only do 2.3 Mbps). > That may not sound like a huge difference, but what about a 100 > Mbps Ethernet network? Open Transport has been shown to sustain 40 > Mbps on those networks - how well will BSD do? Good question. You might want to point to the Netperf results at http://www.cup.hp.com/netperf/numbers/NetperfBrowse.html which among other things have a 100BaseTX result (look under Fast Ethernet) submitted by me a year ago. I measured 79 Mbps between two P-133 hosts running FreeBSD, using SMC 21140 based cards. FreeBSD certainly hasn't gotten any slower since then... Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 07:11:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA17251 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA17242 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:11:45 -0800 (PST) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 9209 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Mar 1997 15:11:39 +0000 (GMT) To: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org Cc: hans@brandinnovators.com, sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:04:45 +0000" References: <199703251404.OAA00250@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:11:39 +0100 Message-ID: <9207.859302699@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them > > > contradict their names ? > > Because man 7 ascii tells me that: > > > > 010 bs 011 ht 012 nl 013 vt 014 np 015 cr 016 so 017 si > > .. > > 170 x 171 y 172 z 173 { 174 | 175 } 176 ~ 177 del > > ... > > > > which maps nicely to their ^ variants... Please, just because > > their is this one editor which gets it wrong doesn't mean there is > > a reason to change the basic character encoding of the rest of the > > system. Put this (for xemacs, dunno about emacs) > > Yep - I guess you're right. So my problem remains: why is the "erase" > character set to ^? by default ? This is more of a religious issue than anything else. There are lots of system which use the Delete character (177) to delete a character :-) I prefer a system where ^h is help in emacs, and the arrow key above the enter key is mapped to Delete, which deletes characters. Please don't go around and claim that there is 'one editor that gets it wrong', and using ^h to delete characters is more logical than using Delete. Both of those characters are equally logical. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 07:24:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA17942 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA17829 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA04749; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:25:15 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199703251425.PAA04749@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Compaq Smart-2/P RAID controller results To: md@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Mark Dawson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:25:15 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, programmers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <199703251412.OAA08617@ruby.dcs.qmw.ac.uk> from "Mark Dawson" at Mar 25, 97 02:11:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Below is a comparison of the performance of the Compaq SMART-2/P > controller with: the older Compaq SMART controller (M RAID5); a CCD of > four legacy Wren-VII disks (I CCD); a logical disk of four older > fast-narrow 1GB disks (I RAID5); a striped configuration of the six > 4.3GB disks (H RAID0); and an internal 4.3GB wide scsi disk. > > BONNIE RESULTS-----Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- > -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- > Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU > I CCD 300 1118 97.8 2031 13.1 1195 12.1 1126 97.8 3068 17.5 46.8 3.4 > M RAID5 100 3427 82.9 3356 23.3 2265 18.0 4168 90.1 5649 25.2 181.5 8.9 > I RAID5 300 1161 99.0 1691 13.6 1688 18.0 1157 98.8 6582 37.8 43.7 2.7 > H RAID5 300 5542 49.2 5328 11.9 4826 15.4 9222 86.9 16673 34.4 115.1 2.6 > H RAID0 300 11615 98.3 15231 36.9 9096 27.1 10532 98.0 16073 30.7 131.6 2.6 > H disk 300 3199 28.0 3277 6.5 1726 4.4 6666 61.0 6271 7.1 100.5 1.6 too bad the CCD configuration is not comparable at all with the RAID0/RAID5 configuration (actually, it is even slower than my single IDE disk!). Would you have a chance of running CCD on the same config as H RAID0 ? Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 07:32:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA18586 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:32:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.newreach.net (root@ns.newreach.net [206.25.170.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18569 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.aristar.com (ip65.akron.newreach.net [206.25.171.65]) by ns.newreach.net (8.8.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA06400; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:27:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3337EF04.41C67EA6@aristar.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:28:04 -0500 From: "Matthew A. Gessner" Organization: Aristar, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Gubanov CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PPP and WinNT RAS References: <2BA37315DC8@elecard.tomsk.su> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Gubanov wrote: > > Hi, > > Is it possible to dialup with ppp to WinNT box with RAS? I've tried > several configs, but RAS rejects AUTHPROTO (??? - maybe smth. else). > It seems it doesn't like suggested authentication method, and suggests > it own (MS-CHAP - M$ can...), for which ppp replies with "not > implemented, nak". Any suggestions? Except setup modem on FreeBSD - it > is the simplest, but I have to use RAS :-(... > Peter Yes, it is possible, I EVEN DID IT WITH A NEWTON MESSAGE PAD! Your login, assuming you're using WinNT 4.0, should wait for "CLIENT" send "CLIENTSERVER" And continue. Use PAP. The CLIENT/CLIENTSERVER strings are configurable: go to \WinNT\System32\RAS and look at MODEM.INF (I think). Look for NULL modem and the speed you want to use, and you'll see CLIENT and CLIENTSERVER strings in the entry. Change away (I haven't done this; I was told to do one thing by m$^&*@^soft but THEY WERE WRONG! The entry he told me to look for wasn't what they said it would be, so logically I'm assuming that you can use whatever strings you want. Actually, not a bad idea since this adds a "little" more security. HTH -- Matt -- Matthew Gessner, Computer Scientist, Aristar, Inc. 302 N. Cleveland-Massillon Rd. Akron, OH 44333 Voice (330) 668-2267, Fax (330) 668-2961 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 07:45:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA19418 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:45:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19411 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA29288; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:45:27 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00578; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:45:26 GMT Message-Id: <199703251545.PAA00578@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: sthaug@nethelp.no cc: hans@brandinnovators.com, sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:11:39 +0100." <9207.859302699@verdi.nethelp.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:45:26 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is more of a religious issue than anything else. There are lots > of system which use the Delete character (177) to delete a character :-) > I prefer a system where ^h is help in emacs, and the arrow key above the > enter key is mapped to Delete, which deletes characters. > > Please don't go around and claim that there is 'one editor that gets > it wrong', and using ^h to delete characters is more logical than using > Delete. Both of those characters are equally logical. > > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no > True - the only really "solid" argument that I've seen however is the ascii table. Perhaps there should be an easier way of doing things - maybe (in the case of FreeBSD) a sysctl variable that allows the default erase char to be changed: /etc/sysconfig: # Specify NO if you like things inconsistent, erase defaults to # ^h, BS sends ^?, DEL sends ^h # Otherwise specify your erase char (^h or ^? usually) erasechar=NO /etc/rc.i386: if [ ."$erasechar" != .NO ]; then sysctl xxxxx.erasechar=$erasechar kbdcontrol -l blah blah BS=$erasechar fi I still prefer the system that says 0x7f is the "Backspace key" and erase is 0x7f - I personally don't care about the delete key. I do most of my typing on a laptop and couldn't tell you offhand where the hell the DEL key is anyway :) -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 07:48:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA19646 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from obiwan.aceonline.com.au (obiwan.aceonline.com.au [203.103.90.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19638 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:48:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.aceonline.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA17132 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:45:12 +0800 (WST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:45:12 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Packets refragmented before firewall rules are applied? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a quick question. I'm abuot to setup firewalling on a 2.2-BETA_A machine and I was wondering if that kernel refragmented packets before applying the firewall rulesets to them. I know Linux has a special compile option in it (under Experimental, its not shown by default). What about IPFilter btw.. does it do this too? Thanks, Adrian Chadd From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 08:28:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA21453 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:28:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from agisgate.agis.net (agisgate.agis.net [205.137.48.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21420; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:27:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from radio (ops1.agis.net [205.137.48.54]) by agisgate.agis.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13429; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:28:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970325112849.009976d0@agisgate.agis.net> X-Sender: markl@agisgate.agis.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:28:50 -0500 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Mark E Larson Subject: 100baseT Ethernet cards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have suggestions for 100baseT cards. I need to run 2 cards per server. the new DEC DC21041 chips don't work at all and the Intel 100b's won't work with 2 cards in the machine (works fine with one). Any suggestions? Thanx Mark E Larson ################################################################### A P E X G L O B A L I N F O R M A T I O N S E R V I C E S ################################################################### Network Operations Center 313-730-5151 noc@agis.net News Administration 313-730-5151 news@agis.net Business Office/Sales 313-730-1130 sales@agis.net Visit our Web Page: http://www.agis.net Network News Information: http://agisgate.agis.net/netnews/netnews.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't throw a HSSI...and drop that ethernet!" --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 08:45:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22337 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22319 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:45:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from Venus.mcs.net (ljo@Venus.mcs.net [192.160.127.92]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id KAA20404; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:45:05 -0600 (CST) Received: (from ljo@localhost) by Venus.mcs.net (8.8.5/8.8.2) id KAA10669; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:45:03 -0600 (CST) From: Lars Jonas Olsson Message-Id: <199703251645.KAA10669@Venus.mcs.net> Subject: Symbios 53C876 (differential) and 20 GB DLT tape drive To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:45:02 -0600 (CST) Cc: ljo@mcs.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm thinking of buying a DLT subsystem from CSC. Its a 10/20 GB DLT drive in external enclosure, cable, terminator, and controller for $1495. The controller is based on Symbios 53C876. Is this likely to work with FreeBSD? Is the programming any different or is it only electrically different (differential vs single ended)? What about 10/20 GB DLT drives, can modenr 20/40 GB drives read the older tapes? Any other recommended drives? I already have a 2/4 GB DAT drive and am looking for something bigger and more reliable. Jonas From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 08:51:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22777 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay-11.mail.demon.net (relay-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.137]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA22772 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from longacre.demon.co.uk ([158.152.156.24]) by relay-11.mail.demon.net id aa1102185; 25 Mar 97 16:34 GMT From: Michael Searle Message-ID: To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SMP without a net connection Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:33:17 GMT X-Mailer: Offlite 0.09 / Termite Internet for Acorn RISC OS Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm planning to run FreeBSD SMP on a machine without a direct Internet connection. As well as the latest 3.0 SNAP, I'll need the CVS directory - can I FTP this and then run CVSup locally instead of needing a direct connection? Also, the pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-CVS directory only seems to mention release numbers up to 2.2.1 - is this the right CVS directory? Thanks, Michael. -- Michael Searle - searle@longacre.demon.co.uk From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 09:25:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA24743 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mangle.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (mangle-qmw.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.95.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24737 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from md@ruby [138.37.88.139]; by mangle.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5/S-4.0) with ESMTP; id RAA15280; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:21:52 GMT Received: from md@localhost; by ruby.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4/C-3.2); id RAA28806; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:21:46 GMT Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.ruby.cs.qmw.ac.uk.sun4.41 via MS.5.6.ruby.cs.qmw.ac.uk.sun4_41; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:21:46 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:21:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Mark Dawson To: Luigi Rizzo Subject: Re: Compaq Smart-2/P RAID controller results CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, programmers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <199703251425.PAA04749@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> References: <199703251425.PAA04749@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > too bad the CCD configuration is not comparable at all with the > RAID0/RAID5 configuration (actually, it is even slower than my single > IDE disk!). Would you have a chance of running CCD on the same config as > H RAID0 ? You're right, the Wren-VII disks aren't youthful so the comparison is not fair to the CCD driver. I've attached the H RAID0 disks to the ProLiant's integrated NCR 53c875 wide scsi controller and configured them as a 6 x 4.3GB CCD disk with the following results: -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU H CCD 300 8491 76.5 8474 19.1 5123 13.7 10273 96.6 12138 16.2 136.8 2.4 H RAID0 300 11615 98.3 15231 36.9 9096 27.1 10532 98.0 16073 30.7 131.6 2.6 Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 09:34:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA25851 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from vdp01.vailsystems.com (root@vdp01.vailsystems.com [207.152.98.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25799 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:33:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from crocodile.vale.com (crocodile [204.117.217.147]) by vdp01.vailsystems.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10366 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:33:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from jaguar (jaguar.vale.com [192.168.129.46]) by crocodile.vale.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08626 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:33:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <33380C6A.29B@vailsys.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:33:30 -0600 From: Hal Snyder X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <199703251545.PAA00578@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't care about religion - the important thing is that is easily configured for both warring factions. Ask the man on the street - I'll bet 99.99% of persons who use a keyboard will reach for the key that says "Backspace" when they make a one-key typo, and not go hunting for "Delete". I use a Win32 desktop system to talk to all the systems where I work, and don't want to context switch to Del-for-backspace if I happen to be in a certain window. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 09:42:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA26371 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:42:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA26365 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:42:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0w9aFA-0003QO-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:42:44 -0700 To: Brian Somers Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Andrew Gierth In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:56:27 GMT." <199703251456.OAA00459@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> References: <199703251456.OAA00459@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:42:44 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Personally on my systems I fix this in xterm and the like by having the BackSpace keysym generate a DEL character. I do this for emacs and always stty erase ^? in my .cshrc files. I do this so that the *STUPID* Motif binaries work w/o me having to do stupid things for them. I use this solution in preference to the xmodmap solution because I generally only care about this working in X terms. Emcas groks BackSpace when run under X, so I'm happy with that. Since I can't run a text console due to the old Sun monitor I use, I don't bother much with making sure that is sane. Does this make sense for system defaults? Likely not given where BSD has been. What I have works for me, but would likely confuse people. As you can tell, I'm from the DEL is delete-backward-character camp. Must be related to that bumper sticker on my car: "VMS Forever." :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 09:54:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27124 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27083; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA11386; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:52:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199703251752.JAA11386@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 100baseT Ethernet cards In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970325112849.009976d0@agisgate.agis.net> from Mark E Larson at "Mar 25, 97 11:28:50 am" To: markl@agis.net (Mark E Larson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:52:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does anyone have suggestions for 100baseT cards. I need to run 2 cards per > server. the new DEC DC21041 chips don't work at all and the Intel 100b's > won't work with 2 cards in the machine (works fine with one). > > Any suggestions? > The DC21041 is a 10Mb/s chip, and works just fine when using the Kingston cards: de0 rev 17 int a irq 12 on pci0:10 de0: DC21041 [10Mb/s] pass 1.1 Ethernet address 00:c0:f0:04:2c:d4 For 100Mb/s operation you want a DC21140 chip, and I am currently recommending the SMC9332BDT which has had support added for this specific card to FreeBSD 2.1.7, 2.2 and 3.0. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 10:10:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA28061 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:10:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from auchentoshan.pdl.cs.cmu.edu (AUCHENTOSHAN.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.189.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA28051 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by auchentoshan.pdl.cs.cmu.edu id aa17004; 25 Mar 97 13:09 EST To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org From: "Chris G. Demetriou" Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:41:37 +1100." <199703251341.AAA04900@plum.cyber.com.au> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:09:34 -0500 Message-ID: <19193.859313374@auchentoshan.pdl.cs.cmu.edu> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I feel a restore_msdos is necessary but what do others think ? (That > is remember there could be non-FAT16 information to restore, long file > names, etc (which NetBSD is meant to support but I haven't yet checked that > out). > I'd agree, but because 'dump' and 'restore' were meant to be FFS-specific, and have in the past been arbitrarily changed to match FFS formats. Given that the various FAT formats aren't really related, it seems like a bad idea to try to wedge them into normal 'restore' (or 'dump,' for that matter). chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 10:18:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA28698 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA28690 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA05269; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:24:03 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199703251724.SAA05269@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Compaq Smart-2/P RAID controller results To: md@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Mark Dawson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:24:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, programmers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk In-Reply-To: from "Mark Dawson" at Mar 25, 97 05:21:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You're right, the Wren-VII disks aren't youthful so the comparison is > not fair to the CCD driver. I've attached the H RAID0 disks to the and not only that, you also had very little memory and probably a not-too-fast controller. > ProLiant's integrated NCR 53c875 wide scsi controller and configured > them as a 6 x 4.3GB CCD disk with the following results: > > -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- > -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- > Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU > H CCD 300 8491 76.5 8474 19.1 5123 13.7 10273 96.6 12138 16.2 136.8 2.4 > H RAID0 300 11615 98.3 15231 36.9 9096 27.1 10532 98.0 16073 30.7 131.6 2.6 these are quite interesting results! May I ask you (if it is not too hard) to make a further try with CCD and 2..5 disks, just to see how it scales ? It's hard to have a chance to make measurements in a testbed like yours (with empty disks I guess) ... Another thing one might wonder is why the per-char/per-block performance with CCD are so similar. Perhaps CCD as configured does not exploit enough the available parallelism, or is that limited by the SCSI bandwidth on the NCR53c875 controller ? Thanks Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 10:42:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA29963 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:42:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29950 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by bagpuss.visint.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26233; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:44:50 GMT Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:44:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: more Mac vs BSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You think this is bad, I was looking at some websites yesterday and found a 'powered by a Mac' link, needless to say I followed it (whilst laughing) to this: http://prod01.apple.com/productinfo/datasheets/ss/aiss.html which really has to be seen to be beleived, particularly the quote near the top about Affordability. (... lowest-cost WWW server available today ... etc.. ) I took up the offer of contacting the webmaster, but haven't got a reply yet. On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > now what planet were these tests performed on? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:10:16 GMT > To: rminnich@sarnoff.com > Subject: more Mac vs BSD > > * In Apple's testing on a 10 Mbps Ethernet network, Open Transport > could sustain throughput of 9.6 Mbps. In contrast BSD could only > sustain 7 Mbps (and the venerable MacTCP could only do 2.3 Mbps). > That may not sound like a huge difference, but what about a 100 > Mbps Ethernet network? Open Transport has been shown to sustain 40 > Mbps on those networks - how well will BSD do? > > Steve Roome. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 10:48:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00396 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:48:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from worldonline.nl (io.worldonline.nl [194.151.128.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00199 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from halder01 (ut1-p5.worldonline.nl [154.9.128.5]) by worldonline.nl (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id TAA10582 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:41:50 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199703251841.TAA10582@worldonline.nl> From: "E Halderman" To: Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:40:28 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 10:49:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00481 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:49:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00474 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-8.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA16563 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:49:15 +0100 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id SAA14292; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:49:12 GMT Message-Id: <19970325194911.15132@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:49:11 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: Lars Jonas Olsson Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Symbios 53C876 (differential) and 20 GB DLT tape drive References: <199703251645.KAA10669@Venus.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.67 In-Reply-To: <199703251645.KAA10669@Venus.mcs.net>; from Lars Jonas Olsson on Tue, Mar 25, 1997 at 10:45:02AM -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mar 25, Lars Jonas Olsson wrote: > I'm thinking of buying a DLT subsystem from CSC. Its a 10/20 GB DLT > drive in external enclosure, cable, terminator, and controller for > $1495. > > The controller is based on Symbios 53C876. Is this likely to work > with FreeBSD? Is the programming any different or is it only > electrically different (differential vs single ended)? AFAIK, the 53c876 is a dual channel version of the 53c875, i.e. much like the Adaptec 3940 implements two 2940 cards. According to the information I have on that device, I do expect it to work with an unmodified driver, but it may be necessary to add the PCI device ID. (It is more common to have a multi-function chip, that contains several devices that are also available seperately, use the original PCI IDs for each of its functions.) If the kernel does not accept the card, then I'll send you a patch for the NCR driver, based on VERBOSE boot messages supplied by you :) Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 10:58:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01002 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00996 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:58:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from worldonline.nl (io.worldonline.nl [194.151.128.27]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA18110 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from halder01 (ut1-p5.worldonline.nl [154.9.128.5]) by worldonline.nl (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id TAA10582 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:41:50 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199703251841.TAA10582@worldonline.nl> From: "E Halderman" To: Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:40:28 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 11:59:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA04829 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from shanghai.sdc.ucsb.edu (shanghai.sdc.ucsb.edu [128.111.96.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA04822 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by shanghai.sdc.ucsb.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Aug95-0129PM) id AA28213; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:59:12 -0800 Message-Id: <33382E8F.41C6@alexandria.sdc.ucsb.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:59:11 -0800 From: Qi Zheng Organization: Alexandria Digital Library X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Need a copy of /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would like to have a copy of the source code of the printer filter /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf. I do not have freeBSD install here. I want to read the code to see how to set up page accounting. If you can send me a copy of the code, please let me know. Thanks. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Qi Zheng zheng@alexandria.sdc.ucsb.edu CCSE/Alexandria (805)893-7684 (Office) University of California (805)893-3045 (FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 12:01:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA04997 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:01:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04987 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA29711; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:00:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703252000.PAA29711@jekyll.piermont.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jekyll.piermont.com: [[UNIX: localhost]] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Chris G. Demetriou" cc: Darren Reed , hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:09:34 EST." <19193.859313374@auchentoshan.pdl.cs.cmu.edu> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:59:54 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Chris G. Demetriou" writes: > > I feel a restore_msdos is necessary but what do others think ? (That > > is remember there could be non-FAT16 information to restore, long file > > names, etc (which NetBSD is meant to support but I haven't yet checked that > > out). > > > > I'd agree, but because 'dump' and 'restore' were meant to be > FFS-specific, and have in the past been arbitrarily changed to match > FFS formats. > > Given that the various FAT formats aren't really related, it seems > like a bad idea to try to wedge them into normal 'restore' (or 'dump,' > for that matter). I wonder if gtar's facilities for doing incremental dumps aren't more suitable to dumping FAT file systems than dump is... Perry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 12:32:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06947 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:32:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from agisgate.agis.net (agisgate.agis.net [205.137.48.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06924; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from radio (ops1.agis.net [205.137.48.54]) by agisgate.agis.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA18730; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:32:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970325153319.00fdd340@agisgate.agis.net> X-Sender: markl@agisgate.agis.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:33:19 -0500 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" From: Mark E Larson Subject: Re: 100baseT Ethernet cards Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes I did misspeak here. The new dec21140-B chips do not work. I have plenty of servers in production with the 21140-A chips. At 09:52 AM 3/25/97 -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> >> Does anyone have suggestions for 100baseT cards. I need to run 2 cards per >> server. the new DEC DC21041 chips don't work at all and the Intel 100b's >> won't work with 2 cards in the machine (works fine with one). >> >> Any suggestions? >> > >The DC21041 is a 10Mb/s chip, and works just fine when using the Kingston >cards: >de0 rev 17 int a irq 12 on pci0:10 >de0: DC21041 [10Mb/s] pass 1.1 Ethernet address 00:c0:f0:04:2c:d4 > >For 100Mb/s operation you want a DC21140 chip, and I am currently recommending >the SMC9332BDT which has had support added for this specific card to >FreeBSD 2.1.7, 2.2 and 3.0. > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD > > ################################################################### A P E X G L O B A L I N F O R M A T I O N S E R V I C E S ################################################################### Network Operations Center 313-730-5151 noc@agis.net News Administration 313-730-5151 news@agis.net Business Office/Sales 313-730-1130 sales@agis.net Visit our Web Page: http://www.agis.net Network News Information: http://agisgate.agis.net/netnews/netnews.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't throw a HSSI...and drop that ethernet!" --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 12:37:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07372 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:37:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from babe.globecomm.net (babe.globecomm.net [207.51.48.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07367 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:37:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from hometown (max1-38.ghg.net [206.29.116.100]) by babe.globecomm.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id PAA12409 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:37:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703252037.PAA12409@babe.globecomm.net> From: "Jeff Bachtel" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:40:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: subscribe Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk subscribe Jeff Bachtel sebastion@irelandmail.com Owner, creator, maintainer of the spam distribution list. Sending it back to 'em! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 12:44:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07896 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07876; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:44:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA06643; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:45:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703252045.MAA06643@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark E Larson cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 100baseT Ethernet cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:28:50 EST." <3.0.32.19970325112849.009976d0@agisgate.agis.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:45:31 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >... and the Intel 100b's >won't work with 2 cards in the machine (works fine with one). Huh? This is the first report I've heard of this. Which version of FreeBSD is this with, and what do you mean by "doesn't work"? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 12:50:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA08341 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08336 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA06323; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:47:56 +1100 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199703252047.HAA06323@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? To: perry@piermont.com Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:47:55 +1100 (EST) Cc: cgd@cs.cmu.edu, darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703252000.PAA29711@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Mar 25, 97 02:59:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Perry E. Metzger, sie wrote > > > "Chris G. Demetriou" writes: > > > I feel a restore_msdos is necessary but what do others think ? (That > > > is remember there could be non-FAT16 information to restore, long file > > > names, etc (which NetBSD is meant to support but I haven't yet checked that > > > out). > > > > > > > I'd agree, but because 'dump' and 'restore' were meant to be > > FFS-specific, and have in the past been arbitrarily changed to match > > FFS formats. > > > > Given that the various FAT formats aren't really related, it seems > > like a bad idea to try to wedge them into normal 'restore' (or 'dump,' > > for that matter). > > I wonder if gtar's facilities for doing incremental dumps aren't more > suitable to dumping FAT file systems than dump is... I'm deliberately avoiding tar/cpio for the following reasons: * each writes individual files to tape (less efficient on some tape media, not to mention slower) * neither provides interactive restoration (restore if) Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 13:07:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA09307 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA09291 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:07:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA25652; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:49:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252049.NAA25652@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:49:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703250925.BAA06152@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 97 01:25:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > In any case, a known date stamp and Subject line should be enough > > to thread most data correctly. > > Wrong ! > either can be use for a search criteria and thats about it in this mailing > list. > > Gosh, I am getting high from whatever you were smoking 8) Then riddle me this: How can I reply to a message with a date stamp earlier than the original message? It seems to me that threading would be implicit. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 13:17:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10003 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09996 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13403; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:14:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703252114.NAA13403@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:49:11 MST." <199703252049.NAA25652@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:14:38 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thats one way of looking at it. However, you seem to imply that to thread a topic the date and subject line are sufficient. Yet, we both know that people love to wander off in different directions using the same subject line. It seems that we need stronger criteria for what constitutes a topic in order to have meaningful topic threads. The difference between your point of view and mine is a matter of syntax vs. semantics. Got another riddle? 8) Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > > In any case, a known date stamp and Subject line should be enough > > > to thread most data correctly. > > > > Wrong ! > > either can be use for a search criteria and thats about it in this mailing > > list. > > > > Gosh, I am getting high from whatever you were smoking 8) > > Then riddle me this: > > How can I reply to a message with a date stamp earlier than the > original message? > > It seems to me that threading would be implicit. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 13:27:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10468 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10461 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:27:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA18258 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09194; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:21:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:21:18 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: Terry Lambert cc: Amancio Hasty , jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703252049.NAA25652@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > Then riddle me this: > > How can I reply to a message with a date stamp earlier than the > original message? > > It seems to me that threading would be implicit. Topic drift is a common occurence. A collection of messages sharing a subject line and temporal proximity may, in time, become very distinct threads, although they share a common origin. Subject and date stamps can ensure correct absolute ordering but in numerous cases, the threading quality will be abysmal. There are two problems in threading: determing what thread a message belongs to and correctly positioning the message in the thread. With reliable In-Reply-To fields, date and subject are more or less irrelevant for both problems. Without reliable In-Reply-To fields, guess work with dates and subjects is about the best you can do. Many messages have reliable In-Reply-To fields, but enough don't that the best possible solution will need to use all three bits of information (message id, date, subject). -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 13:44:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12211 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA12105 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA25751; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:29:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252129.OAA25751@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: rnordier@iafrica.com (Robert Nordier) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:29:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703251233.OAA18965@eac.iafrica.com> from "Robert Nordier" at Mar 25, 97 02:33:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > A fsck is relatively trivial. > > > > That's because there is no difference between a directory entry and > > a physical inode in the MSDOSFS... many of the checks performed by > > the FFS fsck are simply not applicable to the idea of checking an > > MSDOSFS. > > That a fsck-like utility for FAT/VFAT is relatively trivial, feasible, > or even desirable, is a dangerous illusion. :-) > > What makes fsck itself possible is that the FFS was modified to make > recovery (by fsck) a deterministic process. If processing is > interrupted, fsck needs only enough smarts to know what the FFS was > busy with, and therefore what must be done, or undone. Yes; it is because the FFS operation guarantees to order operations: not that it gurantees only a single operation, but that it guarantees a single idempotent state change will have occurred. Of course, it is the responsibility of the MSDOSFS to make similar guarantees. Or any FS, LFS or EXT2FS, or otherwise, for the same reasons. The CHKDSK utility on DOS, which is deemed "sufficient" for recovering DOS FS's during a failure, even in the Win95 case, where the FS data is cached, only recovers the cases where the block references are corrupted. VFAT.VXD in Windows95 guarantees that operations on directory entries won't take place until the directory entires are committed to disk, and similarly, that operations on data for a deleted item will be committed before the item is deleted. The VFATFS can have no knowledge of a file seperate from the directory entry -- there is no such thing as allowing an unlink of a file that is open, in VFAT. > A true fsck doesn't need to `know' the filesystem *as data*. But it > needs a near perfect knowledge of the filesystem *as code*. Fsck > doesn't really look for broken data structures and repair them, it > identifies interrupted updates and completes them (rolling them back or > forward). More accurately, it needs a directed graph of the transaction events which can occur as idempotent transactions so it can determine what node-to-node graph state traversal operation was in process at the time of the crash. > A fsck needs to be paired with a particular FS implementation, > because it is (logically) an integral part of a *specific* FS > implementation. Yes. In many cases, it would be correct to implement the fsck in the mount, if: o The state were deterministic (don't allow unordered transaction state changes -- don't allow -async mount in the FFS case). o If there was not the possibility of external FS state change not occuring as the result of an FS transaction, either through the operation of another OS against your FS image, or, more commonly, as the result of various kinds of media failure. The reason the FFS fsck remains seperate is largely because of the possibility of meia failure, where recovering the FS to a known state becomes more important than recovering it to the correct state, since the correct state is physically unrecoverable (media failures are seldom ordered, idempotent operations 8-)). > With the DOS FS(es), the situation is too different. > > Even if the dozen or so DOS (or DOS FS) implementations all did > metadata updates ordered the same way, these good intentions > would still potentially be perverted by caching software/subsystems > that don't provide (or are not configured for) `write through' > operation. Yes. This dictates what you can and can't cache. This argues against taking, at random, anyone's fsck implementation, unless the implementation knows the minimal idempotence of operations for a given structure, and assumes the operations will be correctly ordered. s still leaves things like "delete pending" operations which are applied to the in core vnode, but which have not been propagated to the underlying fs, because of the FS being stateless (NFS file rename hack) or because of the FS being unable to seperate the concepts of file container (inode) from file reference (directory entry)... like VFATFS. > In addition, the DOS FS lacks a `clean' flag, so FS repair is not > forced after a crash. By the time FS repair *is* attempted, there > may have been multiple interrupted updates, undetected, each of which > left FS inconsistencies, which then interacted to produce further > inconsistencies.... The answer is to force the repair each time. You can implement an FS-based tag object (say the archive bit on a hidden file) to get "clean flag" behaviour, but this is not common across all implementations, so it can't really be trusted unless you are guaranteed that the last one to use the drive was you or a protected mode MS OS that didn't allow raw volume access without acquiring a volume lock. This is a reasonable guarantee to make in most cases, assuming a drive shared only between BSD and Windows 95 or Windows NT. Otherwise, the check *should* be done each time to validate the shutdown state. > Another problem is that a bug in any application can unintentionally > modify the DOS filesystem code itself, or corrupt system tables. So > however perfect the DOS FS implementation may be, its correct operation > can't be assumed. Not in a protected mode OS, unless it's a system level program that acquires a level 3 volume lock then a level 0 volume lock. On the non-protected mode MS OS's, we,, you are on your own. > Any kind of deterministic fsck for the DOS FS is therefore a pipe dream > (except if only the BSD DOSFS implementation is ever allowed to update > the filesystem ... not a realistic restriction, given why anyone is > likely to be using a DOS FS in the first place). Or an MS OS, which makes ordering and protection guarantees. Like Windows 95 and NT do. > A DOS FS repair utility has to be heuristic. But to represent such a > utility as fsck-like, makes false claims. A heuristic utility > functions completely differently; and a heuristic utility hasn't a > remotely comparable chances of success. Agreed. It's isn't a guarantee of *the* correct state, only one of *a* consistent state. A consistent state is enough to keep the protected mode FS driver from faulting, though. > Fsck also provides a very bad model for what a heuristic file repair > utility should be like. When something has to be done, fsck knows > what it is doing: so it needs a minimum of interaction with the user. Taht is a *ggod* model. Every place you allow the user a decision allows the user to make the wrong one. Throw out the user, and the computer will be much happier overall. > o A utility of a goal-seeking AI-type (not unlike a chess program) > which can run a million `what if' scenarios before deciding, > in the case of a cross-linked cluster, for example, which link > to preserve. The goal is "a consistent state", not "the consistent state". As a result, some simple hueristics, like "break circular cluster chains", "duplicate shared cluster chains to produce files with identical chain component content", etc., is enough to guarantee *a* consistent state. > Where one or more directories link to the same cluster, it may be > impossible to resolve the situation sensibly. Duplicate the chain if you have space, pick one by date if you don't. You can allow the user to specify policy for the application of the heuristic, but not allow them interaction with it (at least in the default case). > Asking the user only puts him in a maze of twisty little decision > paths, all different; an arbitrary decision risks destroying > nearly 100% of the filesystem; and an exhaustive, recursive > analysis of the consequences is likely to take longer than the user > (and/or the universe) is prepared to wait. So don't ask. Do. > > In the second case, it asks "convert cluster chains to files?", and > > makes files to contain the chains. This, also, can never happen > > during normal operation. > > If directories are involved, this can also totally scramble the > filesystem. If it is a directory, it's obvious. If it isn't, then it's also obvious. You have to ask "what conditions could cause this error" and not allow the conditions to occur in that sequence in toyr VFATFS (just as DOS does not allow the conditions to occur -- generally, reuse of a cache blcok written out of time order is the only possible case where this could occur). > What I think the DOS FS needs is a sort of `lint'. I've been working > on something that even offers optional advice like ``Warning: cross- > linked directories exist: don't even think of running scandisk''. :-) > Being lint-like, it only finds problems, it doesn't fix them. Alternately, if you had the hidden file you were using for the "clean" bit, you could store a "these files are inaccessable until the user fixes them" list. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 13:49:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12678 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:49:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from shanghai.sdc.ucsb.edu (shanghai.sdc.ucsb.edu [128.111.96.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA12667 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by shanghai.sdc.ucsb.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Aug95-0129PM) id AA28005; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:49:21 -0800 Message-Id: <33384861.41C6@alexandria.sdc.ucsb.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:49:21 -0800 From: Qi Zheng Organization: Alexandria Digital Library X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Thanks for lpf code copy. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thank you all. I have got a copy of the source code of the "lpr" program. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Qi Zheng zheng@alexandria.sdc.ucsb.edu CCSE/Alexandria (805)893-7684 (Office) University of California (805)893-3045 (FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 13:54:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13105 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13098 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:54:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA14923 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:54:55 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id XAA10675 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:05:48 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:05:48 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199703252205.XAA10675@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: 2.2-RELEASE install.sh problems Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, 2.2-RELEASE has been withdrawn in favor for an upcoming 2.2.1 Just an observation: I did a install.sh all in the src dir of the distribution and it got a bunch of gzip: stdin: invalid compressed data--crc error -- Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:12:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14160 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:12:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14152 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA25877; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:58:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252158.OAA25877@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:58:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au In-Reply-To: <199703250159.RAA11475@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Mar 24, 97 05:59:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Curious: why aren't they using it as a prefix instead of a suffix? It > > would seem to make more sense as a prefix, for all sorts fo string > > manipulation reasons, including argv[ 0] and _ replacement with 0 > > for string split issues... > > > > Is it just that SVR4 does it with prefixes, and NIH rules? > > ....there was already a (weak) precendent in BSD for suffixes... c.f. > "newlfs". > > Of course, I don't recall checking what SVR4 did, either. It's > not clear that it matters that much. Really? Which do you prefer? The list to show by command? % ls /sbin/fs clri_cd9660 clri_ffs clri_kernfs clri_lfs clri_mfs clri_msdos clri_nfs clri_null clri_portal clri_procfs clri_umap clri_union dump_cd9660 dump_ffs dump_kernfs dump_lfs dump_mfs dump_msdos dump_nfs dump_null dump_portal dump_procfs dump_umap dump_union ... Or the list to show by fs? % ls /sbin/fs cd9660_clri cd9660_dump cd9660_fsck cd9660_fstyp cd9660_mount cd9660_newfs cd9660_restore cd9660_umount ffs_clri ffs_dump ffs_fsck ffs_fstyp ffs_mount ffs_newfs ffs_restore ffs_umount ... If I had my way, it'd look like: % ls -R /sbin/fs cd9660 ffs kernfs lfs mfs msdos nfs null portal procfs umap union /sbin/fs/cd9660: clri dump fsck fstyp mount newfs restore umount /sbin/fs/ffs: clri dump fsck fstyp mount newfs restore umount ... If I want to add a new FS, I add /sbin/fs/$(NAME) and /lkm/$(NAME)_mod.o and it all just works. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:19:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14692 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:19:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14598 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id WAA17768; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:16:05 GMT Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:11:03 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:11:03 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199703251021.KAA28724@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> References: <5h2c01$4i2@reader.seed.net.tw> <5h6e83$1mk@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Both ASCII and ITU/T alphabet no. 5 (aka ISO 646 7 bit code) define ^H as backspace (BS) and ^? as delete (DEL). The notes on the ISO code table make it clear that BS is intended to be used eg for overprinting characters to get accents (think hard copy here). DEL is all 1's, so if you miskey when punching your paper tape you can back up the punch and zap the bad character with DEL (readers ignore the DEL character). Because it's all 1's (ie all holes) you can zap any other character. So yes, >...it's "normal" to press DEL to rubout ...and it's arguable that Hayes have it wrong... -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:25:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15086 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:25:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15069 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA25930; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:08:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252208.PAA25930@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:08:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703251211.MAA29866@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> from "Brian Somers" at Mar 25, 97 12:11:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) > > > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 > > DEL = DELETE = 0x7f > > > > Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? > > So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them > contradict their names ? > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x7f > DEL = DELETE = 0x08 Type "man ascii" to find out. 8-). ASCII -*DEFINES*- the codes for these names. EMACS doesn't get to -*REDEFINE*- them until they have successfully lobbied the standards committee for a change to the symbol coding standard. So there. When they get past that hurdle, it'd be nice if they sent me updated for my Hazeltine and Televideo and Heath terminals hardware so that they can remainstandards compliant. Why not change the EMACS help system so it doesn't expect to be run on VT100's, which have not been manufactured for many, many years? All of the terminals manufactured by the vendor for about 15 years now have "Help" function keys (the vendor in question is Digital). Why doesn't the EMACS help system use ^X^H or some other mneumonic as useful as the ones EMACS has for "quit" and "save" and so on? 8-p. <- me, sticking my tongue out at EMACS > And then it stty's it to 0x08 in roots .profile..... If people really > insist on BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f, then so be it, but the default erase > should be changed to 0x08 too (and the stty removed from roots .profile). I agree with this one, 100%. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:33:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15664 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:33:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15651 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:33:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id WAA17864; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:31:12 GMT Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:22:21 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:22:21 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199703251409.OAA00279@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> References: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:37:46 +0100." <199703251238.NAA10221@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: Brian Somers From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren?= Schmidt , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id OAA15653 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 2:09 pm -0000 25/3/97, Brian Somers wrote: >[...] >I now agree that 0x08 is the right thing to send for a BS, so >we need to have the default erase as 0x08 and remove the stty >from /.profile and /root/.profile (a link anyway). Well, once upon a time the default erase used to be # This isn't entirely stupid because on an unfamiliar keyboard you don't have to wonder what code the delete key is generating. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:34:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15774 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:34:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15744 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA21788; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:49:41 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:49:40 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Qi Zheng cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need a copy of /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf In-Reply-To: <33382E8F.41C6@alexandria.sdc.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Qi Zheng wrote: > I would like to have a copy of the source code of the > printer filter /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf. I do not have freeBSD install here. > I want to read the code to see how to set up page accounting. > If you can send me a copy of the code, please let me know. mkdir lpf cd lpf ftp ftp.freebsd.org cd /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/lpr/lpf prompt (Interactive mode off) mget * quit Note that there might be some dependencies, but you can fetch them the same way. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:46:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16908 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA16881 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA25997; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:32:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252232.PAA25997@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:32:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <199703251456.OAA00459@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> from "Brian Somers" at Mar 25, 97 02:56:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The ASCII DEL (0x7f) is an artifact of paper tape; a character can be erased > from a tape by punching all the holes out, leaving a DEL, which is then > ignored. (A vestige of this remains in some systems where DEL can be used > for padding instead of NUL.) It's no more correct to use ^h as a destructive > backspace than any other control character, whereas DEL has always been > associated with the concept of "delete last input character". The ASCII DEL (0x7f) is an artifact of terminal devices which sent ^H for cursor left, ^J for cursor down, ^K for cursor up, and ^L for cursor right. These cursor controls were the result of holding down the control keys on multiplex keyboards (before your time, I'm sure) and using the "undercaps" (legends on the front rather than tops of keycaps). In other words, the "controls". This was echoed in hardware where the cursor motion controls became so popular as to merit their own keys on the keyboard (and when the cost/feature ration on keyactions dropped low enough to make such devices marketable. Basically, it a standard for vendors other than DEC: Televideo, ADM, Lear-Sieglar, QUME, Hazeltine, Wyse, etc. etc. The vi motion commands "hjkl" derive from these terminals, and the desire to maintain compatability with the older pre-independent key terminals. Since on these terminals, you could not distinguish a "cursor left" from a "backspace", to implement non-destructive spacing distinct from destructive erase left, DEL wa used. Not to be outdone, IBM jumped in with "BS = erase left, DEL = erase right". The theory is that they just wanted to be a pain in the ass to the rest of us for not switching over to EBCDIC when we "should have". EMACS is a child of DEC machines attached to DEC terminals, and follows in the good old shoes of IBM in their definition of ^H as help: "to be a pain in the ass to the rest of us when we didn't convert all of our terminals to ANSI so we could have seperate codes for the cursor keys distinct from the control keys". Remember: the people who brought you modern EMACS are the same people who made using "#pragma" in source compiled with GCC bring up "hack". > >From a user's point of view, and assuming a PC keyboard, there are two keys > to consider; the <- (backspace) key, and the "Delete" key. Normal user > expectations require <- to behave as a *destructive* backspace, and "Delete" > to be 'delete character forward' (kdch1 in terminfo-speek). This can best be > achieved by having <- generate DEL, having "Delete" generate an escape > sequence, and defaulting to 'stty erase ^?'. Except my backspace keys doesn't say "<-----", it says "<- BackSpace". I expect it to send a code in line with it's keycap. If you are going to argue for changing the code to not match my keycaps, then I will argue for changing the code emitted by the "Escape" key (which modern DEC terminals omitte because they wanted ANSI escape sequences processed in the terminal driver, and naked ESC characters make it onconvenient). That way, when I hit an "ESC" key (which currently sends an ESC character, apparently a bad thing, since it means the keycap and the code the key sends actually, God Forbid!, *match*), I won't have to wait a second while "vi" accounts for the possibility that the ESC is actually part of a sequence broken between packets over a long delay link. > Having "Delete" generate ^h is insane, and likely to confuse people > considerably. And having they keycaps on both the Delete and Backspace keys not match the actual codes the damn keys send is somehow *not* confusing?!?! Next, I suppose, we chould change "Tab" and "Enter" to send sequences seperate from ^T and ^M. Lucky for us the poor slobs who have "LF" and "FF" keys on their keyboards don't count for squat any more... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:49:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17216 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:49:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA17202 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA26015; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:35:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252235.PAA26015@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: hal@vailsys.com (Hal Snyder) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:35:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <33380C6A.29B@vailsys.com> from "Hal Snyder" at Mar 25, 97 11:33:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't care about religion - the important thing is that > is easily configured for both warring > factions. > > Ask the man on the street - I'll bet 99.99% of persons who use a > keyboard will reach for the key that says "Backspace" when they make a > one-key typo, and not go hunting for "Delete". This is a justification for changing EMACS, not a justification for making the key send something other than what its keycap claims it sends. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:54:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17644 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17639 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:54:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA02702; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:50:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703252250.RAA02702@jekyll.piermont.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jekyll.piermont.com: [[UNIX: localhost]] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:58:43 MST." <199703252158.OAA25877@phaeton.artisoft.com> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:50:44 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lets get serious here. 4.4lite introduced the entire mount_${fs} thing. It is arguable whether it is better to say ffs_mount or mount_ffs, but frankly it doesn't matter much, and having picked one there is no good reason to break people by switching back. This isn't the sort of thing that is so critical that there is a reason to be gratuitously incompatible with what another BSD is doing, and 4.4lite set the precedent. Perry Terry Lambert writes: > > > Curious: why aren't they using it as a prefix instead of a suffix? It > > > would seem to make more sense as a prefix, for all sorts fo string > > > manipulation reasons, including argv[ 0] and _ replacement with 0 > > > for string split issues... > > > > > > Is it just that SVR4 does it with prefixes, and NIH rules? > > > > ....there was already a (weak) precendent in BSD for suffixes... c.f. > > "newlfs". > > > > Of course, I don't recall checking what SVR4 did, either. It's > > not clear that it matters that much. > > Really? Which do you prefer? > > The list to show by command? > % ls /sbin/fs > clri_cd9660 clri_ffs clri_kernfs clri_lfs > clri_mfs clri_msdos clri_nfs clri_null > clri_portal clri_procfs clri_umap clri_union > dump_cd9660 dump_ffs dump_kernfs dump_lfs > dump_mfs dump_msdos dump_nfs dump_null > dump_portal dump_procfs dump_umap dump_union > > ... > > > Or the list to show by fs? > % ls /sbin/fs > cd9660_clri cd9660_dump cd9660_fsck cd9660_fstyp > cd9660_mount cd9660_newfs cd9660_restore cd9660_umount > ffs_clri ffs_dump ffs_fsck ffs_fstyp > ffs_mount ffs_newfs ffs_restore ffs_umount > > ... > > > If I had my way, it'd look like: > % ls -R /sbin/fs > cd9660 ffs kernfs lfs > mfs msdos nfs null > portal procfs umap union > > /sbin/fs/cd9660: > clri dump fsck fstyp > mount newfs restore umount > > /sbin/fs/ffs: > clri dump fsck fstyp > mount newfs restore umount > > ... > > If I want to add a new FS, I add /sbin/fs/$(NAME) and /lkm/$(NAME)_mod.o > and it all just works. > > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 14:58:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17940 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA17932 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA26044; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:43:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252243.PAA26044@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:43:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703252114.NAA13403@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 97 01:14:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Thats one way of looking at it. However, you seem to imply that > to thread a topic the date and subject line are sufficient. Yet, > we both know that people love to wander off in different directions > using the same subject line. It seems that we need stronger criteria > for what constitutes a topic in order to have meaningful topic threads. > > The difference between your point of view and mine is a matter of > syntax vs. semantics. > > Got another riddle? 8) Sure. I have three. Say I grant your position above. 1) How do you make me change MUA's so I provide you with an "In-reply-to:" header when you provide me with a "Message-ID:" header? 2) How do you make me change MUA's so I provide "Message-ID:" headers on all the messages I originate? Answers: 1) You don't. You can't tell me what mailer I can or can't run. 2) You don't. You can't tell me what mailer I can or can't run. Now the third riddle: 3) How do you approximate threading, given the above, and the fact that you only control the list server, not the clients? Answers? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:05:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18218 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:05:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA18138 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA16584 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:02:33 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA06858; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:09:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970325220946.WM44861@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:09:46 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. References: <199703242324.QAA23896@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199703251233.OAA18965@eac.iafrica.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703251233.OAA18965@eac.iafrica.com>; from Robert Nordier on Mar 25, 1997 14:33:08 +0200 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Robert Nordier wrote: > That a fsck-like utility for FAT/VFAT is relatively trivial, feasible, > or even desirable, is a dangerous illusion. :-) Excellent explanation! Boy, am i happy that the times i've been using FAT filesystems are now five years ago... (I always thought that it was very stupid of M$ to continue using FAT- style filesystem on Winlose, now that they've got {HP,NT}FS. Now i know of one more reason for _why_ it is stupid. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:09:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18586 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:09:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA18575 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:09:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA16638; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:07:59 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA07168; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:49:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970325234946.WT53941@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:49:46 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr, choi.junho@jazz.snu.ac.kr (Choi Jun Ho) Subject: Re: EUC locales and XF86 3.2 for 2.2R? References: <199703240911.SAA27946@moderato.snu.ac.kr> <199703250626.PAA00057@jazz.snu.ac.kr> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703250626.PAA00057@jazz.snu.ac.kr>; from Choi Jun Ho on Mar 25, 1997 15:26:55 +0900 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Choi Jun Ho wrote: > But I am now more interrested about below... > :: 2. XFree86 3.2 built for 2.2R? > :: > :: XCOMM operating system: OSName > :: #ifndef OSMajorVersion > :: #define OSMajorVersion 2 > :: #endif > :: #ifndef OSMinorVersion > :: #define OSMinorVersion 1 > :: #endif > :: #ifndef OSTeenyVersion > :: #define OSTeenyVersion 5 > :: #endif > :: Of course I don't have gnumalloc library. Is it a binary built for 2.1.5R? > :: > Will it fix in 2.2.1-RELEASE? This was an accident by the XFree86 folks (and no, it's not very useful to send-pr XF86 problems in FreeBSD, better get directly to XFree86 for them). Rich Murphy wrote Jordan and me that he's fixed it in the files that are supposed to go onto the 2.2 CD-ROM. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:10:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18816 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:10:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA18805 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:10:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA26124; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:57:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252257.PAA26124@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. To: perry@piermont.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:57:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au In-Reply-To: <199703252250.RAA02702@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Mar 25, 97 05:50:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Lets get serious here. > > 4.4lite introduced the entire mount_${fs} thing. > > It is arguable whether it is better to say ffs_mount or mount_ffs, but > frankly it doesn't matter much, and having picked one there is no good > reason to break people by switching back. > > This isn't the sort of thing that is so critical that there is a > reason to be gratuitously incompatible with what another BSD is doing, > and 4.4lite set the precedent. BSD4.4-Lite arguably screwed up FS modularity in many ways. This is one of them. If all our friends jumped off a bridge, should we? Like our friends from the bridge, CSRG is quite dead. The only reasonably uniform mechanism for modular insertion/deletion of supported file systems from an OS involves grouping the files by FS. Ideally, the grouping should be done on a directory basis rather than a prefix basis so that only a single point of adjustment is necessary to perform the insertion or deletion. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:17:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19304 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sendero.i-connect.net ([206.190.144.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19291 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:17:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shimon@localhost) by sendero.i-connect.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) id QAA19298; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:15:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199703192044.HAA07624@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:37:27 -0800 (PST) Organization: iConnect Corp. From: Simon Shapiro To: John Birrell Subject: Re: FW: threads... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanx a million. We will follow up... Simon Hi John Birrell; On 19-Mar-97 you wrote: > Simon Shapiro wrote: > > - there is name space collisions between libc and libc_r. > > supposedly libc_r is a full blown replacement for libc (?). > > if you link with libc_r, libc gets linked as well. since > > ld assumes startup files (crt0.o and std lib c). order is > > important to solve some name space problems but this causes > > other non-fatal problems - like an empty stub for > > _thread_init() > > Use libc_r _instead_ of libc. libc_r is a super-set of libc, so the > name space collisions are not surprising -- they're intended! > > You can avoid gcc telling ld to link lib by using -nostdlib. > > > > > - threads initialization doesn't occurr (_thread_init). there > > doesn't seem to be an entry on the Construct list for this > > guy in libc_r. even though I have explicitly called this > > routine in the application things still don't seem to be > > setup correctly. Some other missing component ???? > > If you link correctly, this should not be a problem. > > > > > - threads seem to get created but their start proc never > > gets executed - scheduling... > > > > - signals aren't reliable > > > > Of course the later two problems could hinge on the first. > > Probably. If the correct linking doesn't solve your problems, ask > your developer to email me. > > Regards, > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, 119 Cecil Street, South Melbourne Vic 3205, Australia > Tel +61 3 9690 6900 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Mob +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:21:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19621 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19614 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA02811; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:19:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703252319.SAA02811@jekyll.piermont.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jekyll.piermont.com: [[UNIX: localhost]] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: perry@piermont.com, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au Subject: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:57:10 MST." <199703252257.PAA26124@phaeton.artisoft.com> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:19:33 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > It is arguable whether it is better to say ffs_mount or mount_ffs, but > > frankly it doesn't matter much, and having picked one there is no good > > reason to break people by switching > > > > This isn't the sort of thing that is so critical that there is a > > reason to be gratuitously incompatible with what another BSD is doing, > > and 4.4lite set the precedent. > > BSD4.4-Lite arguably screwed up FS modularity in many ways. > > This is one of them. > > If all our friends jumped off a bridge, should we? Like our friends > from the bridge, CSRG is quite dead. Look, this is a fairly trivial item. You need to pick one of the two naming schemes. There are arguments for both. The benefits of either over the other are fairly insignificant. Well, one has already been picked. If you want to gratuitously reduce compatibility of FreeBSD with BSDI, NetBSD and OpenBSD, thats fine, but there is no rational reason to consider this to be so important that switching the order makes sense. All the mount commands are already mount_${fsname}, for example. If you don't want to go along with that, well, fine, but I'm afraid I don't see the benefit -- whereas I do see a larger learning curve, broken scripts and executables, and a dozen other reasons not to be gratuitously incompatible. > The only reasonably uniform mechanism for modular insertion/deletion > of supported file systems from an OS involves grouping the files by FS. Your computer doesn't care what the names of the files are. Any reasonable package system (including the FreeBSD one) can handle sets of arbitrarily named files and add or remove them at will. Thats one of the reasons you have package systems. > Ideally, the grouping should be done on a directory basis rather than > a prefix basis so that only a single point of adjustment is necessary > to perform the insertion or deletion. Your proposal would have made sense BEFORE everyone else picked a scheme. However, the benefits of what you describe are small, and now that everyone else is doing something, I don't think there is much of a point in doing something gratuitously different without substantial benefits. Of course, it isn't my operating system. Go right ahead if you like. Perry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:23:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19768 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19763 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:23:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14365; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:20:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703252320.PAA14365@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:43:06 MST." <199703252243.PAA26044@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:20:14 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk And the answer is!!! We adopt a new communication form, which is: 1. controlled 2. has clear topics 3. You communicate with a centralized agent who is then responsible for distributing the information be in a web base form , or a a less sophisticated medium such as a mailing list. What I have in mind is a mechanism in which people post formal documents and the discussions are mediated by a "chair person" of the discussion. The random thought walks that we currently have in this list can't be managed by the simplistic mailing scheme that we have. In brief, we are quickly out growing the capabilities of the current mailing list scenario. BTW: Your so call mail header problems are not that difficult to tackle if we control the mail header generation within the mailing list program and tag each mail message with an appropriate header. Next 8) Regards, Amancio >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > Thats one way of looking at it. However, you seem to imply that > > to thread a topic the date and subject line are sufficient. Yet, > > we both know that people love to wander off in different directions > > using the same subject line. It seems that we need stronger criteria > > for what constitutes a topic in order to have meaningful topic threads. > > > > The difference between your point of view and mine is a matter of > > syntax vs. semantics. > > > > Got another riddle? 8) > > Sure. I have three. > > Say I grant your position above. > > 1) How do you make me change MUA's so I provide you with an > "In-reply-to:" header when you provide me with a > "Message-ID:" header? > > 2) How do you make me change MUA's so I provide "Message-ID:" > headers on all the messages I originate? > > Answers: > > 1) You don't. You can't tell me what mailer I can or can't run. > > 2) You don't. You can't tell me what mailer I can or can't run. > > > Now the third riddle: > > 3) How do you approximate threading, given the above, and the fact > that you only control the list server, not the clients? > > Answers? > > > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:25:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19985 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA19979 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:25:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA26154; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:08:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703252308.QAA26154@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:08:46 -0700 (MST) Cc: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Bob Bishop" at Mar 25, 97 10:22:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, once upon a time the default erase used to be # > This isn't entirely stupid because on an unfamiliar keyboard you don't have > to wonder what code the delete key is generating. I don't have to wonder anyway beacuse I know how to type "stty". If I'm not familiar with the OS, I have bigger problems than the backspace key... 8-) 8-). From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:25:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20058 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA20027 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA16807 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:24:41 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07467; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:14:47 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326001447.QV50783@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:14:47 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <199703251238.NAA10221@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199703251409.OAA00279@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703251409.OAA00279@shift.lan.awfulhak.org>; from Brian Somers on Mar 25, 1997 14:09:38 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Somers wrote: > I now agree that 0x08 is the right thing to send for a BS, so > we need to have the default erase as 0x08 and remove the stty > from /.profile and /root/.profile (a link anyway). > > Any disagreements (freebsd-hackers) ? Yes. We've been there before, and found that it's so much a matter of personal preference that we cannot agree on anything. I'm certainly not the only one whose entire setup on a bunch of machines is trimmed to ^? as the rubout key. (I normally also map this to the key that is labelled <-- on my keyboard. I don't have keyboards where this key might be labelled `Backspace' anyway. :) Root's profile shouldn't try to touch the rubout setting at all. Hold on, i've just resubmitted an old suggestion to Søren... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:27:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20218 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:27:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20209 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:26:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA18386 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA16815; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:25:25 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07492; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:20:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326002027.FH31284@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:20:27 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Subject: Re: Getting a 100Mbps card to work References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Narvi on Mar 25, 1997 13:32:37 +0200 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Narvi wrote: > The problem is simple - it (actually 3 of them) do not work with BSD (the > others sit in Windows machines). > > Now the details - > > 1) Chip used by the cards - DEC 21140-AE (yes, AE). The problem is simple: which version of FreeBSD? You didn't indicate this. ---------------------------- revision 1.60 date: 1997/02/23 10:57:30; author: joerg; state: Exp; lines: +15 -1 Add support for the SMC9332BDT that's using the DE21140A chip. This is merely a stop-gap measure until we can import an upgraded driver from Matt Thomas. Closes PR # 2696, and most likely also 2767. OKed by: core ---------------------------- If this doesn't solve your problem, you probably will need the most recent version of Matt's driver which hasn't been integrated yet (just announced a couple of days ago). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:32:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20652 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:32:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20647 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from devnull (devnull.calweb.com [208.131.56.69]) by mail.calweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA09578 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:28:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970325152304.00a22800@pop.calweb.com> Warning: Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) will be returned to send in bulk X-Sender: jfesler@pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:23:04 -0800 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Jason Fesler Subject: How to add extra shutdown code? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmm, I don't see how to do this under FreeBSD (too easy under Slowlaris ;-). Is there any way I can have a script ran at stutdown? I have some stuff that needs to run at shutdown time (versus after reboot). -- Jason Fesler jfesler@calweb.com Internic: 'whois jf319' Admin, CalWeb Internet Services http://www.calweb.com Junk email returned, in bulk, back to sender; w/copies to all postmasters. You got junk mail problems? Use Eudora Pro, MSIE's mail, or 'man procmail'. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:53:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA22286 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:53:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA22281 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from archive.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa10563; 25 Mar 97 18:53 EST Received: from jazz.cs.Virginia.EDU (jazz.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.40]) by archive.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA27465; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:53:19 -0500 (EST) From: Paco Hope Received: (from bah6f@localhost) by jazz.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA17456; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:53:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703252353.SAA17456@jazz.cs.Virginia.EDU> Subject: Raw IP packets cause problems, reboots To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:53:18 -0500 (EST) Cc: Kira Attwood Organization: University of Virginia, Department of Computer Science X-My-URL: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~bah6f/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=ELM859333997-17366-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --ELM859333997-17366-0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- A colleague of mine is working on a proxy service for a firewall, and she's doing it under FreeBSD. We discovered a piece of sample code for using raw IP packets. This code supposedly sends an IP datagram with arbitrary source and destination fields. When run as root on a 2.1.5-RELEASE system, it generates an "Invalid argument" error. This identical code, with no modifications, compiles and executes "correctly" on Solaris (sparc) and Linux. I'm no expert on raw IP sockets, so I'm a bit stumped at why this doesn't work on FreeBSD. Even worse: If we run this program several times (e.g. 10 times over the course of 5 minutes) the system we're running on reboots. No messages in /var/log/messages, and we don't have a console on it, so we don't see anything happen. The system is otherwise basically unloaded, and we're the only processes running on it. It's just a toy firewall. The sample code is attached to this mail. If anyone has any explanations or hints on why this fails, please let me know. Please CC me on this discussion. I don't subscribe to hackers@freebsd. Thanks, Paco - -- Paco Hope Computer Systems Engineer paco@cs.virginia.edu Department of Computer Science http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~bah6f/ University of Virginia -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMzhlZqvTy70NhSypAQG/ygMAihNEIHAe3pU3SZp4ehv0O13hWD3d//IO ATPoZ4/Sqjvk/xIho4fqbf4wBc7RzJ/SsOhzEP2dI6o1k4mHXEtx1LQhDaPXXQf6 pYlYeX7ArnqhTwxCbTXz7BbApkxVZA7W =bxgc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ELM859333997-17366-0_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=rawtest.c Content-Description: Sample raw IP socket code Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /************************************************************************/ /* arnudp.c version 0.01 by Arny - cs6171@scitsc.wlv.ac.uk */ /* Sends a single udp datagram with the source/destination address/port */ /* set to whatever you want. Unfortunately Linux 1.2 and SunOS 4.1 */ /* don't seem to have the IP_HDRINCL option, so the source address will */ /* be set to the real address. It does however work ok on SunOS 5.4. */ /* Should compile fine with just an ANSI compiler (such as gcc) under */ /* Linux and SunOS 4.1, but with SunOS 5.4 you have to specify extra */ /* libraries on the command line: */ /* /usr/ucb/cc -o arnudp arnudp001.c -lsocket -lnsl */ /* I'll state the obvious - this needs to be run as root! Do not use */ /* this program unless you know what you are doing, as it is possible */ /* that you could confuse parts of your network / internet. */ /* (c) 1995 Arny - I accept no responsiblity for anything this does. */ /************************************************************************/ /* I used the source of traceroute as an example while writing this. */ /* Many thanks to Dan Egnor (egnor@ugcs.caltech.edu) and Rich Stevens */ /* for pointing me in the right direction. */ /************************************************************************/ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include main(int argc,char **argv) { struct sockaddr sa; int fd; int x=1; int tmp; struct sockaddr_in *p; struct hostent *he; u_char gram[38]= { 0x45, 0x00, 0x00, 0x26, 0x12, 0x34, 0x00, 0x00, 0xFF, 0x11, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0x00, 0x12, 0x00, 0x00, '1','2','3','4','5','6','7','8','9','0' }; if(argc!=5) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: %s sourcename sourceport destinationname destinationport\n", *argv); exit(1); } he=gethostbyname(argv[1]); if( he == NULL ) { fprintf(stderr,"can't resolve source hostname\n"); exit(1); } bcopy(*(he->h_addr_list),(gram+12),4); he=gethostbyname(argv[3]); if( he == NULL) { fprintf(stderr,"can't resolve destination hostname\n"); exit(1); } bcopy(*(he->h_addr_list),(gram+16),4); *(u_short*)(gram+20)=htons((u_short)atoi(argv[2])); *(u_short*)(gram+22)=htons((u_short)atoi(argv[4])); bzero( &sa, sizeof( sa ) ); p=(struct sockaddr_in*)&sa; p->sin_family=AF_INET; bcopy(*(he->h_addr_list),&(p->sin_addr),sizeof(struct in_addr)); fd=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_RAW,IPPROTO_RAW); if( fd < 0) { perror("socket"); exit(1); } #ifdef IP_HDRINCL fprintf(stderr,"we have IP_HDRINCL :-)\n\n"); /* if (setsockopt(fd,IPPROTO_IP,IP_HDRINCL,(char*)&x,sizeof(x))<0) */ tmp = setsockopt(fd, IPPROTO_IP, IP_HDRINCL, &x, sizeof(x)); if( tmp < 0 ) { perror("setsockopt IP_HDRINCL"); exit(1); } #else fprintf(stderr,"we don't have IP_HDRINCL :-(\n\n"); #endif tmp = sendto( fd, &gram, sizeof(gram), 0, (struct sockaddr*)p, sizeof(struct sockaddr) ); if( tmp < 0 ) { perror("sendto"); exit(1); } printf("datagram sent without error:"); for(x=0;x<(sizeof(gram)/sizeof(u_char));x++) { if(!(x%4)) putchar('\n'); printf("%02x", gram[x]); } putchar('\n'); } --ELM859333997-17366-0_-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 15:57:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA22601 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:57:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu (UX2.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.198.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA22592 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:57:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu id aa05423; 25 Mar 97 18:56 EST To: Terry Lambert cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au From: "Chris G. Demetriou" Subject: Re: dump for MS-DOS partitions. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:58:43 MST." <199703252158.OAA25877@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:56:22 -0500 Message-ID: <5420.859334182@ux2.sp.cs.cmu.edu> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ ... what do we prefer ... ] > > If I had my way, it'd look like: > % ls -R /sbin/fs > cd9660 ffs kernfs lfs > mfs msdos nfs null > portal procfs umap union > > /sbin/fs/cd9660: > clri dump fsck fstyp > mount newfs restore umount > > /sbin/fs/ffs: > clri dump fsck fstyp > mount newfs restore umount > > ... > > If I want to add a new FS, I add /sbin/fs/$(NAME) and /lkm/$(NAME)_mod.o > and it all just works. I actually agree; I like this layout better, as well. however, _THAT IS NOT THE POINT_. If the question is "where should utility X go," then the answer is currently obvious: /sbin/${util}_${fsname}. That's the current scheme, which was handed down from Berkeley. The question "should things be reorganized into a better layout" is entirely seperate. The answer may be yes, or it may be no, but I think it's most likely to be "it doesn't matter; it's just not that important." If you'd like to consider this question, please do... but not in _my_ mailbox. 8-) cgd From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 16:06:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23513 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23508 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA18001; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:05:46 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07639; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:44:53 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326004453.JB17633@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:44:53 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Cc: zheng@alexandria.sdc.ucsb.edu (Qi Zheng) Subject: Re: Need a copy of /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf References: <33382E8F.41C6@alexandria.sdc.ucsb.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel O'Callaghan on Mar 26, 1997 09:49:40 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > I would like to have a copy of the source code of the > > printer filter /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf. > mkdir lpf > cd lpf > ftp ftp.freebsd.org > cd /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/lpr/lpf Try again, Danny. :-) The source actually lives in /usr/src/usr.sbin/lpr/filters/lpf.c. So the correct FTP path should be /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/usr.sbin/lpr/filters. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 16:16:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24260 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24250 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA07188; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:15:15 +1100 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199703260015.LAA07188@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Organisation of programs for various filesystems. To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:15:15 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current-users@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703252257.PAA26124@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 25, 97 03:57:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Terry Lambert, sie wrote [...] > The only reasonably uniform mechanism for modular insertion/deletion > of supported file systems from an OS involves grouping the files by FS. > > Ideally, the grouping should be done on a directory basis rather than > a prefix basis so that only a single point of adjustment is necessary > to perform the insertion or deletion. FWIW, Solaris2 does it with (if I recall correctly): /usr/lib/fs// so ufsdump is /usr/lib/fs/ufs/ufsdump and ufsrestore is /usr/lib/fs/ufs/ufsrestore. (but you might have symbolic links to it from elsewhere, say /usr/sbin/ufsdump). Obviously there are easily observed advantages to organising these programs in such a manner, as opposed to using a single directory (i.e. /sbin). Also, in consideration for keeping / size down, it maybe desirable to consider subdirectories under /usr. Whether it is mount_msdos or msdos_mount, it doesn't matter. That we now have mount_* suggests that this trend be followed rather than break with it and make an adhoc change which will cause user problems and achieve nothing more than pleasing some peoples sense of asthetics. If there is a desire to have things organised by directory, then by all means do so, put make sure symbolic links are used, to save path length and existing PATH settings (if nothing else). Darren p.s. I moved it to current-users as this isn't i386 specific. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 16:36:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA26036 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA26016 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA26405; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:22:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260022.RAA26405@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: perry@piermont.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:22:22 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org, darrenr@cyber.com.au In-Reply-To: <199703252319.SAA02811@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Mar 25, 97 06:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Look, this is a fairly trivial item. You need to pick one of the two > naming schemes. There are arguments for both. The benefits of either > over the other are fairly insignificant. > > Well, one has already been picked. You misunderstand my argument. My points are: 1) If you are going to generate FS specific commands, they should be grouped by FS, such that the FS can be treated as a unit. 2) The FS specific commands should be wrappered by a generic FS command that takes a -T argument, but does not require a -T argument if "fstyp" is implemented or if the device being referenced exists in the /etc/fstab already, such that iterating the /etc/fstab will identify the FS type. 3) The best way to achieve grouping currently is with FS specific directories to contain the commands. 4) The next best way to achieve grouping is by way of prefix, not a suffix, since it simplifies component identification without needing to determine subcomponent type. 5) The worst way to achieve grouping (since it does *not* achieve grouping, it only achives differentiation) is by suffix. I am not arguing for #4 or #5, which are each "one of the two naming schemes". I am arguing for the naming scheme you are omitting from consideration by ignoring it: #3. > If you want to gratuitously reduce compatibility of FreeBSD with BSDI, > NetBSD and OpenBSD, thats fine, but there is no rational reason to > consider this to be so important that switching the order makes > sense. Neither is maintaining compatability with BSDI in what is essentially a very system specific operation. If you are arguing for compatability, we should start with the argument type and parameter values used by BSDI (who will certainly not change to be compatbile with us!) and *correct* our *already bogus, by this measure* commands. This would remove a number of significant improvements which BSDI has failed to pick up (in other words, it would be a Bad Idea). > whereas I do see a larger learning > curve, broken scripts and executables, and a dozen other reasons not > to be gratuitously incompatible. This assumes (INCORRECTLY) that scripts and users (ther than FS module authors) will directly reference the FS-specific commands, rather than referencing the wrapper commands which encapsulate the type-inference entirely. If this is truly your worry, then, again, the arguments and parameters to the existing "name compatible" commands are sufficiently different that they should be "corrected" (quoted, because I believe the BSDI compatability argument is without merit until they exceed FreeBSD in FS capabilities -- which they have not). > > The only reasonably uniform mechanism for modular insertion/deletion > > of supported file systems from an OS involves grouping the files by FS. > > Your computer doesn't care what the names of the files are. Any > reasonable package system (including the FreeBSD one) can handle sets > of arbitrarily named files and add or remove them at will. Thats one > of the reasons you have package systems. What about the wrapper commands? They, in fact, care, even if the installation code does not. Other than mkfs (no existing file type) and fstyp (must iteratively call all FS specific fstyp's to determine), the wrappers can be expressed as hard links to the shell script: #!/bin/sh # # link this to the command in question... CMD="$0" ARGS="$*" FSBIN="/sbin/fs" FSTAB="/etc/fstab" # parse out terminal command from CMD... at the same time, # get the FS type argument "-T " if specified FSCMD=... FSTYPE=... if test "x$FSTYPE" = "x" then # parse out device name to get FSTYPE; if operating on a # mount point instead of a device, get the type of the # FS mounted there, if any; otherwise, reverse lookup device # name in FSTAB to get the FSTYPE... FSDEV=... FSTYPE=`fstyp $FSDEV` fi # call the correct command for the correct type for the # provided device or mount point. Each FS specific mount # will ignore the "-T" option, so it is OK to pass the full # argument list without parsing it out. $FSBIN/$FSTYPE/$FSCMD $ARGS # return it's return code as ours... exit $? The fstyp can be expressed as: #!\bin\sh # # fstyp [-v] special # # give the name of the FS FSBIN="/sbin/fs" ARGS="$*" # parse out special device argument to avoid passing -v to # the iterative calls in case there is more than one match FSDEV= # change directory to avoid having to remove the bin path # prefix in the for loop... cd $FSBIN FSTYPE="" FOUND="NO" for i in * do # for each FS for which an "fstyp" exists.. if test -x $i/fstyp then # call fstyp without extra arguments (-v, if present) $i/fstyp $FSDEV > /dev/null if test "$?" = "0" then # if found and already found, ambiguous if test "$FOUND" = "YES" then # found more than one FOUND="AMBIG" fi #if found and not already found, then found if test "$FOUND" = "NO" then # found one FOUND="YES" FSTYPE="$i" fi fi fi done # no matches if test "$FOUND" = "NO" then echo "unknown_fstyp" exit 1 fi # too many matches if test "$FOUND" = "AMBIG" then echo "unknown_fstyp" exit 2 fi # success; one match. Call with extra arguments (-v), if any... $FSTYPE/fstyp $ARGS exit 0 > > Ideally, the grouping should be done on a directory basis rather than > > a prefix basis so that only a single point of adjustment is necessary > > to perform the insertion or deletion. > > Your proposal would have made sense BEFORE everyone else picked a > scheme. My proposal was MADE "BEFORE everyone else picked a scheme"... it was made in 1993. Your proposal would have made sense if everyone hadn't been ignoring my good advice when they picked a scheme. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 16:44:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA26737 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA26729 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA26438; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:27:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260027.RAA26438@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:27:22 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703252320.PAA14365@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 97 03:20:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BTW: Your so call mail header problems are not that difficult to > tackle if we control the mail header generation within the mailing > list program and tag each mail message with an appropriate header. [ ... ] > > Now the third riddle: > > > > 3) How do you approximate threading, given the above, and the fact > > that you only control the list server, not the clients? I'd be curious how you generate an "In-reply-to:" for a message for which I have not provided an "In-reply-to:" at my user agent when I sent the thing. I don't see how this can be easily resolved without implying trhreading based on receipt ordering (UTC date stamp) and subject. This gives only a single tthread per subject replied this way... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 16:52:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA27299 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA27171 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA18661 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:51:48 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA08107; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:23:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326012336.IK14554@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:23:36 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <33380C6A.29B@vailsys.com> <199703252235.PAA26015@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703252235.PAA26015@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mar 25, 1997 15:35:43 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > This is a justification for changing EMACS, not a justification for > making the key send something other than what its keycap claims it > sends. The keycap on all my keyboards claims it to be <---, so what ASCII code does this translate into, please? :-) Don't be that American-centric! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 16:58:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA27777 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:58:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA27769; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:58:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199703260058.QAA27769@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:58:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703252049.NAA25652@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 25, 97 01:49:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > How can I reply to a message with a date stamp earlier than the > original message? > > It seems to me that threading would be implicit. ordering != threading ordering is less restrictive relationship has anything useful come out of this thread? well, i checked rfc822, 1122 and 1123, Message-ID header is not required. if not presendt, the sendmail on freefall will add it. same is true of the date. (in reality these depend upon the M and D flags for the mailer, but all mailers on freefall have these flags set) regarding the Message-ID header, Bryan Costales writes: "This header must be declared in the configuration file." wonder where this requirement is laid down? jmb From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 16:59:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA27860 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27854 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:59:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA22444; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:13:24 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:13:23 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Jason Fesler cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to add extra shutdown code? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970325152304.00a22800@pop.calweb.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Jason Fesler wrote: > Hmm, I don't see how to do this under FreeBSD (too easy under Slowlaris ;-). > Is there any way I can have a script ran at stutdown? I have some stuff > that needs to run at shutdown time (versus after reboot). shutdown -r execs /sbin/reboot and shutdown -h execs /sbin/halt. You could replace each of those programs with a shell script which does stuff you want and then calls /sbin/halt.real, or /sbin/reboot.real Might be a nice addition to the system to have an rc.halt which is processed by halt and reboot if it exists, though. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 17:00:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA27965 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27960 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:00:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA22459; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:15:13 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:15:13 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers , Qi Zheng Subject: Re: Need a copy of /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf In-Reply-To: <19970326004453.JB17633@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > I would like to have a copy of the source code of the > > > printer filter /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf. > > > mkdir lpf > > cd lpf > > ftp ftp.freebsd.org > > cd /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/lpr/lpf > > Try again, Danny. :-) > > The source actually lives in /usr/src/usr.sbin/lpr/filters/lpf.c. So > the correct FTP path should be > /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/usr.sbin/lpr/filters. Rats! I should have checked. I just took the path supplied in the original question. :-( Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 17:11:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28726 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28706 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:11:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA15457; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:08:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260108.RAA15457@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), jfieber@indiana.edu, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:58:09 PST." <199703260058.QAA27769@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:08:27 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It is just a distraction from Terry for now just ignore it and concentrate on the real project . Amancio >From The Desk Of "Jonathan M. Bresler" : > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > How can I reply to a message with a date stamp earlier than the > > original message? > > > > It seems to me that threading would be implicit. > > ordering != threading > ordering is less restrictive relationship > > has anything useful come out of this thread? > > well, i checked rfc822, 1122 and 1123, Message-ID header > is not required. if not presendt, the sendmail on freefall > will add it. same is true of the date. (in reality these > depend upon the M and D flags for the mailer, but all > mailers on freefall have these flags set) > > regarding the Message-ID header, Bryan Costales writes: > "This header must be declared in the configuration file." > wonder where this requirement is laid down? > jmb From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 17:18:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29172 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29167 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA26561; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:02:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260102.SAA26561@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:02:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, langfod@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703260108.RAA15457@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 97 05:08:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It is just a distraction from Terry for now just ignore it and > concentrate on the real project . Ignore this: HOW WILL YOU DESIGNATE A MESSAGE'S THREAD WITHOUT AN "In-Reply-To:" HEADER? That's the point of the discussion. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 17:23:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29523 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from netrover.com (ottawa15.netrover.com [205.209.19.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29511 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:23:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brianc@localhost) by netrover.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09665; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:22:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:22:51 -0500 From: brianc@netrover.com (Brian Campbell) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: binary/resident size X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-to: brianc@pobox.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just for curiousity's sake I built an assembler program that consisted soley of "jmp ." (just to keep track of how much idle time has been "wasted". I suspect cp_time[CP_IDLE] could tell me the same thing, but not via ps or top). I guess I wasn't entirely surprised that when linked the binary was 4k. text data bss dec hex 4096 0 0 4096 1000 What I don't understand is why VSZ is 132k and RSS is 20k. UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND 134 2443 1 333 74 20 132 20 - RN v1- 5502:24.27 idle It is run as 'idprio 31 nice -20 idle'. What am I missing? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 17:26:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29663 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from agisgate.agis.net (agisgate.agis.net [205.137.48.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29634; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:25:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from radio (ops1.agis.net [205.137.48.54]) by agisgate.agis.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA24160; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:26:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970325202649.00b05320@agisgate.agis.net> X-Sender: markl@agisgate.agis.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:26:50 -0500 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Mark E Larson Subject: intel 100b warning message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy again! Ok, I have FreeBSD 2.2.1 running with 2 Intel 100B cards. They seem to be running good. However I get a warning message on boot up for both cards. /kernel: fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type=1, addr=1 and of course the same message for fxp1 Just need to know what this is, and if it will hose me down when in production. Thanx Markl ################################################################### A P E X G L O B A L I N F O R M A T I O N S E R V I C E S ################################################################### Network Operations Center 313-730-5151 noc@agis.net News Administration 313-730-5151 news@agis.net Business Office/Sales 313-730-1130 sales@agis.net Visit our Web Page: http://www.agis.net Network News Information: http://agisgate.agis.net/netnews/netnews.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't throw a HSSI...and drop that ethernet!" --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 17:33:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00346 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00341 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA15627; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:31:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260131.RAA15627@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:02:01 MST." <199703260102.SAA26561@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:31:56 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Odd, I think that you think like a Physics. There are LAWS which can not be broken. Terry, I am going to leave this simple exercise for you to solve . When you have a "cool" solution, please let us know about it. Amancio >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > It is just a distraction from Terry for now just ignore it and > > concentrate on the real project . > > Ignore this: HOW WILL YOU DESIGNATE A MESSAGE'S THREAD WITHOUT > AN "In-Reply-To:" HEADER? > > That's the point of the discussion. > > > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 17:41:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA01675 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from narcissus.ml.org (root@brosenga.Pitzer.edu [134.173.120.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01668 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by narcissus.ml.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA08933; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:41:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:41:13 -0800 (PST) From: Snob Art Genre To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers , Qi Zheng Subject: Re: Need a copy of /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > > > As Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > > I would like to have a copy of the source code of the > > > > printer filter /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf. > > > > > mkdir lpf > > > cd lpf > > > ftp ftp.freebsd.org > > > cd /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/libexec/lpr/lpf > > > > Try again, Danny. :-) > > > > The source actually lives in /usr/src/usr.sbin/lpr/filters/lpf.c. So > > the correct FTP path should be > > /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/usr.sbin/lpr/filters. > > Rats! I should have checked. I just took the path supplied in the > original question. :-( The path in the original question is correct. Perhaps the source is in the wrong place? > Danny > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 17:46:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA01956 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01941 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:45:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA19223; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:43:51 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:43:51 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Terry Lambert cc: perry@piermont.com, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG, darrenr@cyber.com.au Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-Reply-To: <199703260022.RAA26405@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > # call the correct command for the correct type for the > # provided device or mount point. Each FS specific mount > # will ignore the "-T" option, so it is OK to pass the full > # argument list without parsing it out. > > $FSBIN/$FSTYPE/$FSCMD $ARGS > ... > for i in * > do > # for each FS for which an "fstyp" exists.. > if test -x $i/fstyp > then > [stuff] >... So what you're saying is that the above is significantly better than $FSCMD_$FSTYPE $ARGS and for i in *_fstyp; do [stuff] ... Or am I missing something here? cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite myst, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 18:13:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04387 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:13:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04365 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA03254; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:12:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703260212.VAA03254@jekyll.piermont.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jekyll.piermont.com: [[UNIX: localhost]] didn't use HELO protocol To: Curt Sampson cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:43:51 PST." Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:12:13 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Curt Sampson writes: > On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > $FSBIN/$FSTYPE/$FSCMD $ARGS > > So what you're saying is that the above is significantly better than > > $FSCMD_$FSTYPE $ARGS > > and > > for i in *_fstyp; do [stuff] ... > > Or am I missing something here? No you aren't missing anything. Furthermore, he is claiming that breaking compatibility with existing code and scripts doesn't matter, either, in order to get this "improvement". Talk about *religious*, geesh... Perry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 18:21:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA05455 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from boulder.syr.servtech.com (boulder.syr.servtech.com [206.106.144.94]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05445 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from boulder.syr.servtech.com (boulder.syr.servtech.com [206.106.144.94]) by boulder.syr.servtech.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA02274 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:25:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <33388927.41C67EA6@servtech.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:25:43 -0500 From: Shawn Carey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone else seen this? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, A program my company develops and delivers on FreeBSD started behaving oddly at times when I upgraded from 2.1.5 to 2.2-ALPHA. The oddity was that gdb would occasionally reload the executable (and sometimes shared libs, too) when nothing had been rebuilt. I initially thought it was a quirk with gdb, and things seemed to work fine otherwise, so I left it alone. Now that we are running 2.2-RELEASE, this anomaly appears to be something more serious than I originally thought, as gdb now stops the program with the message "Process killed due to text file modification", and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a diff between an idle copy and the "modified" executable is nil. Furthermore, I have recently discovered that if I link the program with -static, the problem goes away. Linking statically is a fix that is good enough for me, but I would be interested in helping to find out what's going on if anyone thinks this is worth more investigation. I have already emailed John Polstra, who says he has seen similar occurences, and John Dyson, who seems to have a full plate at the moment. Thanks, -Shawn Carey From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 18:31:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA06200 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca (eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca [131.104.48.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05982 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:28:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from josh@localhost) by eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA23962; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:27:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19970325212754.49722@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:27:54 -0500 From: Josh Tiefenbach To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: josh@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca Subject: JDK 1.02 dumps core Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.66 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Not sure if this is the best place for this, but.... I've been getting the java interpreter to dump core on me when trying to run an application I'm developing. The dumps can be reliably reproduced. The dumps occur when I try to create more than 8 JDBC connections to a mySQL database. 0-8 connections seem to work fine, but 9+ instantly cause a core dump (trace included below). The odd part is that the app works using the Linux 1.02 JDK. Kernel: 2.2-GAMMA circa March 14th. Remainders: 2.2R circa March 21st. JDK: jdk1.02-11.26 from freefall. Any suggestions? Jeffery? Nate? josh -----8<-------- eddie:/usr/home/josh/444/code$ make run env CLASSPATH=.:/usr/local/jdk-1.02/classes.zip:`pwd`/jdbc.zip:`pwd`/mysql.zip java CServer props DEBUG: Loading mySQL JDBC driver DEBUG: URL to db: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo DEBUG: Created Connection: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo DEBUG: Created Connection: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo DEBUG: Created Connection: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo DEBUG: Created Connection: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo DEBUG: Created Connection: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo DEBUG: Created Connection: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo DEBUG: Created Connection: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo DEBUG: Created Connection: jdbc:mysql://bar.cis.uoguelph.ca:3333/foo SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation sig 11, code 12 or 0xc, sc 0xefbfcfcc, addr 0x8 stackbase=0xefbfd6c4, stackpointer=0xefbfcf94 Full thread dump: "Finalizer thread" (TID:0x85853b0, sys_thread_t:0x9389f28) prio=1 "Async Garbage Collector" (TID:0x8585368, sys_thread_t:0x9368f28) prio=1 "Idle thread" (TID:0x8585320, sys_thread_t:0x9347f28) prio=0 "clock handler" (TID:0x85851f8, sys_thread_t:0x9326f28) prio=11 "main" (TID:0x85850a0, sys_thread_t:0x13f300) prio=5 *current thread* java.net.PlainSocketImpl.create(PlainSocketImpl.java:81) java.net.Socket.(Socket.java:94) java.net.Socket.(Socket.java:70) gwe.sql.gweMysql.Connect(gweMysql.java) gwe.sql.gweMysqlConnection.(gweMysqlConnection.java) gwe.sql.gweMysqlDriver.connect(gweMysqlDriver.java) java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:90) java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:132) CServer.CreateDBPool(CServer.java:209) CServer.main(CServer.java:161) Monitor Cache Dump: gwe.sql.gweMysql@8588170/8648BC0 (key=0x8588170): monitor owner: "main" java.lang.Class@8585F30/14DC00 (key=0x8585f30): monitor owner: "main" unknown key (key=0x9368f28): unowned Waiting to be notified: "Async Garbage Collector" java.net.PlainSocketImpl@8588180/8648C18 (key=0x8588180): monitor owner: "main" Registered Monitor Dump: Finalize me queue lock: unowned Waiting to be notified: "Finalizer thread" Thread queue lock: unowned Class lock: unowned Java stack lock: unowned Code rewrite lock: unowned Heap lock: unowned Has finalization queue lock: unowned Monitor IO lock: unowned Child death monitor: unowned Event monitor: unowned I/O monitor: unowned Alarm monitor: unowned Waiting to be notified: "clock handler" Monitor cache lock: unowned Monitor registry: monitor owner: "main" Thread Alarm Q: sys_thread_t 0x9368f28 [Timeout in 764 ms] Abort trap - core dumped *** Error code 134 Stop. -- Josh Tiefenbach | "You could do that, and I could nail your President, | head to that table, set it on fire, and feed Society for Computing | your charred remains to the Phak'mari." and Information Science. | University of Guelph | -- Sinclair, "Epiphanies" mailto:josh@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca Web: http://eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca/~josh PGP fingerprint = CCC5E3615A57F69B3BA426BE2D33F4A2 | Public key on web page From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 18:51:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA07603 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07537 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA13533; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:50:12 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:50 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09317; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:23:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id VAA02025; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:28:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:28:59 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199703260228.VAA02025@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!rah.star-gate.com!hasty, ponds!lambert.org!terry Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? Cc: ponds!freebsd.org!hackers, ponds!indiana.edu!jfieber, ponds!freefall.freebsd.org!jmb, ponds!dihelix.com!langfod Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > And the answer is!!! > > We adopt a new communication form, which is: > > 1. controlled > 2. has clear topics > 3. You communicate with a centralized agent who is then responsible > for distributing the information be in a web base form , or a > a less sophisticated medium such as a mailing list. > > What I have in mind is a mechanism in which people post formal > documents and the discussions are mediated by a "chair person" of the > discussion. The random thought walks that we currently have in this > list can't be managed by the simplistic mailing scheme that we have. > In brief, we are quickly out growing the capabilities of the > current mailing list scenario. Err... how "real time" do you want this conversation to be. That is, assuming something like a WWW server (i.e. some clever CGI scripts) might be neat... but that kinda leaves us poor UUCP slobs out of it... - Dave R. - > > BTW: Your so call mail header problems are not that difficult to > tackle if we control the mail header generation within the mailing > list program and tag each mail message with an appropriate header. > > > Next 8) > > Regards, > Amancio > > >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > > Thats one way of looking at it. However, you seem to imply that > > > to thread a topic the date and subject line are sufficient. Yet, > > > we both know that people love to wander off in different directions > > > using the same subject line. It seems that we need stronger criteria > > > for what constitutes a topic in order to have meaningful topic threads. > > > > > > The difference between your point of view and mine is a matter of > > > syntax vs. semantics. > > > > > > Got another riddle? 8) > > > > Sure. I have three. > > > > Say I grant your position above. > > > > 1) How do you make me change MUA's so I provide you with an > > "In-reply-to:" header when you provide me with a > > "Message-ID:" header? > > > > 2) How do you make me change MUA's so I provide "Message-ID:" > > headers on all the messages I originate? > > > > Answers: > > > > 1) You don't. You can't tell me what mailer I can or can't run. > > > > 2) You don't. You can't tell me what mailer I can or can't run. > > > > > > Now the third riddle: > > > > 3) How do you approximate threading, given the above, and the fact > > that you only control the list server, not the clients? > > > > Answers? > > > > > > Regards, > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 19:11:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA09284 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from yoda.fdt.net (root@yoda.fdt.net [205.229.48.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09277 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from Kryten.nina.org (port-51.ts1.gnv.fdt.net [205.229.51.51]) by yoda.fdt.net with SMTP id WAA24512; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:11:31 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:11:28 -0500 (EST) From: Frank Seltzer X-Sender: frankd@Kryten.nina.org To: Amancio Hasty cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703260131.RAA15627@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Odd, I think that you think like a Physics. There are LAWS which can > not be broken. > > Terry, I am going to leave this simple exercise for you to solve . > When you have a "cool" solution, please let us know about it. And your simple solution, as you stated in your previous message, is to manually read and thread the messages. Are you the one who is going to read hundreds of messages a day and thread them for all the lists? Would it not make more sense to have the computer hosting the lists do this? If so, how would the computer know how to thread the messages if no In-Reply-To header exists? I suppose that if you are a competent enough programmer, you could code the intelligence necessary for the machine to read all messages and determine where in the hierarchy each should go. Can we look forward to seeing an alpha version of your code soon? Terry has made a valid point that you have not addressed. I think that your personal feelings toward Terry are clouding your thoughts. > Amancio > > > >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > > It is just a distraction from Terry for now just ignore it and > > > concentrate on the real project . > > > > Ignore this: HOW WILL YOU DESIGNATE A MESSAGE'S THREAD WITHOUT > > AN "In-Reply-To:" HEADER? > > > > That's the point of the discussion. > > > > > > Regards, > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > > Frank -- Only in America can a homeless veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a draft dodger sleeps in the White House - anonymous From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 19:21:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10028 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10022 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:21:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA24228; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:51:06 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703260321.NAA24228@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? In-Reply-To: <33388927.41C67EA6@servtech.com> from Shawn Carey at "Mar 25, 97 09:25:43 pm" To: smc@servtech.com (Shawn Carey) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:51:06 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Shawn Carey stands accused of saying: > > Now that we are running 2.2-RELEASE, this anomaly appears to be > something more serious than I originally thought, as gdb now stops the > program with the message "Process killed due to text file modification", > and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a diff between an idle > copy and the "modified" executable is nil. Furthermore, I have recently > discovered that if I link the program with -static, the problem goes > away. This looks very much like a problem that has been reported many times before, where one or more pages from a process' text are written back to the file. The pages aren't actually changed, but the file's timestamp is obviously updated. > says he has seen similar occurences, and John Dyson, who seems to have a > full plate at the moment. That he does. If someone wanted to learn a little about the FreeBSD VM, this would be an excellent and worthwhile bug to squash. > -Shawn Carey -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 19:36:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10924 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:36:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10850; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:36:02 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199703260336.TAA10850@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? To: smc@servtech.com (Shawn Carey) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:36:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <33388927.41C67EA6@servtech.com> from "Shawn Carey" at Mar 25, 97 09:25:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Shawn Carey wrote: > > [snip] > Now that we are running 2.2-RELEASE, this anomaly appears to be > something more serious than I originally thought, as gdb now stops the > program with the message "Process killed due to text file modification", > and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a diff between an idle > copy and the "modified" executable is nil. Furthermore, I have recently > discovered that if I link the program with -static, the problem goes > away. > > Linking statically is a fix that is good enough for me, but I would be > interested in helping to find out what's going on if anyone thinks this > is worth more investigation. I have already emailed John Polstra, who > says he has seen similar occurences, and John Dyson, who seems to have a > full plate at the moment. This sounds exactly like the problem that /etc/daily turns up once in a while. Once in a while it will find setuid files that have had their times changed, but nothing ever really touched the file. This is the first time I've heard that dynamic/static linking makes a difference. That is a good clue. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@FreeBSD.org "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 19:51:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA11601 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11596 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16687; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:51:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260351.TAA16687@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Frank Seltzer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:11:28 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:51:13 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Frank Seltzer : > On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Odd, I think that you think like a Physics. There are LAWS which can > > not be broken. > > > > Terry, I am going to leave this simple exercise for you to solve . > > When you have a "cool" solution, please let us know about it. > > And your simple solution, as you stated in your previous message, is to Well, I guess you never heard of a controlled discussion forum before . I guess it most be a toooo simple idea. You see there are classes of projects in which there is a strong desire to provide a control forum . For instance, the current Bt848 video capture project in the multimedia mailing is just a *simple* example. For those kinds of project oriented processes it is desired to have a structured / controlled environment. If we can provide adequate presentation from enough controlled environments then maybe we got a chance at controlling the wild growth in the mailing list. Additionally, we can still keep mailing style discussion formats. > manually read and thread the messages. Are you the one who is going to > read hundreds of messages a day and thread them for all the lists? Would > it not make more sense to have the computer hosting the lists do this? > > If so, how would the computer know how to thread the messages if no > In-Reply-To header exists? I suppose that if you are a competent enough > programmer, you could code the intelligence necessary for the machine to Yes, I am a competent programmer and have been well I am not going to say for how long : hint more than two decades 8) > read all messages and determine where in the hierarchy each should go. Can > we look forward to seeing an alpha version of your code soon? Nah, I repeat I leave such mundane task to Terry 8) For the record , I do like Terry. In this case , I do think that he can come up with a clever solution to the problem and not just sit on the problem. > Terry has made a valid point that you have not addressed. I think that > your personal feelings toward Terry are clouding your thoughts. > How can you say that he has a valid point ? Lets just assume that someone comes up with a different protocol to distribute the information? Remember we are trying to architect the discussion forums. See Ya, Amancio > > > > >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > > > It is just a distraction from Terry for now just ignore it and > > > > concentrate on the real project . > > > > > > Ignore this: HOW WILL YOU DESIGNATE A MESSAGE'S THREAD WITHOUT > > > AN "In-Reply-To:" HEADER? > > > > > > That's the point of the discussion. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Terry Lambert > > > terry@lambert.org > > > --- > > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > > or previous employers. > > > > > > > > Frank > -- > Only in America can a homeless veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a > draft dodger sleeps in the White House - anonymous > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:00:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11946 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11938 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA00988; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:00:35 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:00:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199703260400.VAA00988@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Josh Tiefenbach Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: JDK 1.02 dumps core In-Reply-To: <19970325212754.49722@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca> References: <19970325212754.49722@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.14 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been getting the java interpreter to dump core on me when trying to run > an application I'm developing. The dumps can be reliably reproduced. > > The dumps occur when I try to create more than 8 JDBC connections to a mySQL > database. 0-8 connections seem to work fine, but 9+ instantly cause a core > dump (trace included below). .. > Any suggestions? Jeffery? Nate? It dumps core on me when I startup a number of threads as well, though it doesn't seem locked to a specific number. I've pretty much given up on 1.0.2 stuff since I want to port 1.1. But, Sun hasn't responded to my 1.1 request for source, so nothing is happening on that front. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:17:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA12758 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA12748 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA26869; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:03:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260403.VAA26869@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:03:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703260131.RAA15627@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 97 05:31:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Odd, I think that you think like a Physics. There are LAWS which can > not be broken. Yes, physics is the only real science (mathematics is not a science, it is a tool). What has that got to do with the price of tea in China? > Terry, I am going to leave this simple exercise for you to solve . > When you have a "cool" solution, please let us know about it. > > >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > > It is just a distraction from Terry for now just ignore it and > > > concentrate on the real project . > > > > Ignore this: HOW WILL YOU DESIGNATE A MESSAGE'S THREAD WITHOUT > > AN "In-Reply-To:" HEADER? > > > > That's the point of the discussion. OK, I have a cool soloution; the pain is that it took so long to write up (I think vastly faster than I type): The problem may be solved in two parts: I Assignment of message ID's to messages that came into the list server without a "Message-ID:" header. Discussion: There are several examples of messages without "Message-ID:" headers in the archives (mostly exmh users). List Change: Messages received without "Message-ID:" headers shall be given one in the list remailing process, before the messages are the archived. This means the messages will have an archival ID, and they will be likely to generate correct "In-reply-to:" headers from user mailers, guaranteeing threadability of correctly formatted replies/followups. II Designation of root messages and ordering for messages that do not have an "In-reply-to:" header. Case 1: The message does not have an "In-reply-to:" because it is the head of a new thread Case 2: The message does not have an "In-reply-to:" because the MUA used by the user failed to provide one Case 3: The message has an "In-reply-to:" for a message archived by the list Case 4: The message has an "In-reply-to:" for a message not archived by the list Archive Change: Case 1 be grossly distinguished from case 2 by determination of "Subject:" line contents. If the "Subject:" line contains an "Re:" prefix to the subject, it is considered an "orphan" message from an existing thread. Alternate: If processing time can be spared, an index search of existing subjects should be used to identify the subject, and categorize the message that way; a date-cutoff parameter (which we will call ) should allow regeneration of a subject thread without considering the thread an orphan. Archive Change: Case 3 is time domain indistinguishable from case 4 for a given time window in the case that a case 4 message resulted from a transport propagation delay. This may occur if a list and a user are both copied on a message, and the user replies before the list archives the message, and the network propagation delay topology is such that the original message arrives after the response to both the list and the orginal sender (most often caused by "group replies"). The Archive processing must be two-tiered, such that there is a configurable window of time in which a non-archived referenced message may arrive before the refrencing message is archived (which we will call ). If expires prior to the arrival of the orginal message, then the message that followed it is declared an "orphan". Define Orphan: An orphan message is the result of a missing or "In-Reply-to:", a new message with an archived subject which recurrs within a window, or a followup to a non-list message (an 'invalid' "In-reply-to:") for which an original message has not appeared within a window. Said messages shall be marked with the headers: "X-Orphan: no in-reply-to", "X-Orphan: no in-reply-to AND active subject", "X-Orphan: unarchived in-reply-to 'reply-to'", respectively ('reply-to' in the last is the original "In-reply-to:" header). Handle Orphan: If the subject does not exist, it is treated as the head of a new thread. If the subject exists, but has not been added to in days, the subject is considered to have "recurred", and it is treated as the head of a new thread with the same subject. If the subject exists, and the has been added to in days, the subject is considered to be "live" and the message is considered to be "unthreadable". An message which is "unthreadable" is determined to have occurred in the "unthreadable" thread for the subject, and is treated as follows: a) If it is the first "unthreadable" message for a subject, the root message gains a new thread as if the unthreadable message were a response to the root message itself. The messages's "In-Reply-to:" is adjusted accordingly. b) If it is not the first "unthreadable" message for a subject, the root message's "unthreadable message list is followed to the tail of the thread, and it is insrted there. The message's "In-reply-to:" is adjusted to point to the "Message-ID:" of the message at the tail of the thread. Alternate (b): b) If sufficient processing power exists, the message is inserted in the thread "unthreadable" based on it's date/time stamp in UTC. Both it's, and the message following it's "In-Reply-to:" field are adjusted to indicate the link insertion. It should be ovious that given the time-order domain of message header adjustments, it is possible to: o Reindex messages in the case that the message index is somehow lost o Periodically reindex messages based on the "X-Orphan:" header to "unorphan" messages for which the: "X-Orphan: unarchived in-reply-to 'reply-to'" unarchived parent has subsequently arrived outside the period (the purpose of which is to get important data into the archive in a timely fashion). o Periodically reindex messages based on the "X-Orphan:" header to "unorpahn" messages for which the: "X-Orphan: no in-reply-to AND active subject" has caused the messages to be interpreted as active subject orphans rather than new thread heads (typically this would be done when has been increased). o Periodically reindex messages based on the lack of an "In-reply-to:" header that are considered message heads to force them into the: "X-Orphan: no in-reply-to AND active subject" category (typically this would be done when has been decreased). o Apply administrative fiat to adjust headers to force messages from one category to another, and to join and split threads, as necessary. To support this, there should be a valid "In-reply-to: root" or similar thread head directive which is treated as a pseudo-directive. I think that about covers it... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:24:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13067 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:24:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13061 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:24:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA26886; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:10:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260410.VAA26886@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: cjs@portal.ca (Curt Sampson) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:10:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, perry@piermont.com, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG, darrenr@cyber.com.au In-Reply-To: from "Curt Sampson" at Mar 25, 97 05:43:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > $FSBIN/$FSTYPE/$FSCMD $ARGS > > ... > > for i in * > > do > > # for each FS for which an "fstyp" exists.. > > if test -x $i/fstyp > > then > > [stuff] > >... > > So what you're saying is that the above is significantly better than > > $FSCMD_$FSTYPE $ARGS > > and > > for i in *_fstyp; do [stuff] ... > > Or am I missing something here? You're missing the fact that the file system support may have arrived as the rsult of a union mount, and that the organization to allow this requires that the per-FS components be logically and simply seperable from the other components. For instance, I may wish to have a directory overlay from /usr for the additional fs's other than FFS, since only FFS is needed for boot. This is only an example of something I might want to do. I can provide others, if necessary, and if you want to spend the time on them. In reality, given the discussion Doug Rabson, Mike Smith, and I had, it should be obious that an ELF executable could be considered a "bootfs" image, and all other FS types could result from a directed overlay from that into a real FS name space. That is, i support variosu FS types as single modules which may be agregated with boot and kernel images. All the better to boot from VFATSFS or EXT2FS as root and have a kernel that doesn't support FFS at all until a module is loaded from one of the FS types it does support. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:30:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13338 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:30:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13333 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA26928; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:17:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260417.VAA26928@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:17:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19970326012336.IK14554@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 26, 97 01:23:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is a justification for changing EMACS, not a justification for > > making the key send something other than what its keycap claims it > > sends. > > The keycap on all my keyboards claims it to be <---, so what ASCII > code does this translate into, please? :-) > > Don't be that American-centric! I'm not "American-centic", I'm UNIX-centric. BS-as-DEL is DEC VTxxx-centric, or more generally, ANSI 3.64-centric, and has it's origins, as EMACS had it's origins, on old DEC hardware. Besides, it's not my fault you bought a defective keyboard. ;-) What's German for "Backspace"? Are you saying thre are no German keyboards with "Backspace" implied for the key? I suppose we could always "appeal to authority" and take the IBM PC keymaps for international users, as specified by IBM... but of course, then I win again, and it's Backspace. 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:31:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13384 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13377 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:31:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA16916; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:30:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260430.UAA16916@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:03:40 MST." <199703260403.VAA26869@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:30:27 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tnks Terry now thats a little better. Don't worry you are still not off the hook yet 8) There is small thing that I am thinking about which is a project to implement the list management. And I really will enjoy for you to contribute. >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > Odd, I think that you think like a Physics. There are LAWS which can > > not be broken. > > Yes, physics is the only real science (mathematics is not a science, > it is a tool). What has that got to do with the price of tea in > China? Oh, Maybe , just maybe a person's discipline may affect the way that one goes about abstract thinking. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:35:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13530 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13514 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA03736; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:33:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703260433.XAA03736@jekyll.piermont.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jekyll.piermont.com: [[UNIX: localhost]] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:10:04 MST." <199703260410.VAA26886@phaeton.artisoft.com> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:33:41 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > You're missing the fact that the file system support may have arrived > as the rsult of a union mount, and that the organization to allow > this requires that the per-FS components be logically and simply > seperable from the other components. > > For instance, I may wish to have a directory overlay from /usr for > the additional fs's other than FFS, since only FFS is needed for boot. > This is only an example of something I might want to do. This makes no sense. The names of your programs have NOTHING to do with union mounts. You can name them anything that doesn't conflict and union mount them. Not, of course, that this is a reasonable use of union mounts, but if it was, your comment still would make no sense. None of what you have said give any good reason why you might want to name something ffs_mount or ffs/mount instead of mount_ffs. > I can provide others, if necessary, and if you want to spend the > time on them. I'm still waiting for the first reason. > In reality, given the discussion Doug Rabson, Mike Smith, and I had, > it should be obious that an ELF executable could be considered a > "bootfs" image, and all other FS types could result from a directed > overlay from that into a real FS name space. That is, i support > variosu FS types as single modules which may be agregated with boot > and kernel images. Not that this makes any sense (because it doesn't) but that still says nothing about why you might want to name something ffs_mount instead of mount_ffs. > All the better to boot from VFATSFS or EXT2FS as root and have a kernel > that doesn't support FFS at all until a module is loaded from one > of the FS types it does support. None of this explains why you need to name the files "ffs_mount" instead of "mount_ffs". Perry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:36:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13602 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:36:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13597 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA26953; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:21:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260421.VAA26953@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How to add extra shutdown code? To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:21:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: jfesler@calweb.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Daniel O'Callaghan" at Mar 26, 97 12:13:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hmm, I don't see how to do this under FreeBSD (too easy under Slowlaris ;-). > > Is there any way I can have a script ran at stutdown? I have some stuff > > that needs to run at shutdown time (versus after reboot). > > shutdown -r execs /sbin/reboot and shutdown -h execs /sbin/halt. > > You could replace each of those programs with a shell script which does > stuff you want and then calls /sbin/halt.real, or /sbin/reboot.real > > Might be a nice addition to the system to have an rc.halt which is > processed by halt and reboot if it exists, though. Check the -hackers list archives; there have been a number of positings of "rc.shutdown" patches for init. I believe that the most recent one was "Message-ID: ", which was posted on "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:03:14 +0100" by Ollivier Robert, email address roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:37:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13690 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:37:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13685 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:37:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA26968; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:23:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260423.VAA26968@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: perry@piermont.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:23:13 -0700 (MST) Cc: cjs@portal.ca, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703260212.VAA03254@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Mar 25, 97 09:12:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > So what you're saying is that the above is significantly better than > > > > $FSCMD_$FSTYPE $ARGS > > > > and > > > > for i in *_fstyp; do [stuff] ... > > > > Or am I missing something here? > > No you aren't missing anything. > > Furthermore, he is claiming that breaking compatibility with existing > code and scripts doesn't matter, either, in order to get this > "improvement". What about "semantic seperation of command names from the FS on which they are intended to operate"? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:41:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13921 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13914 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA03785; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:39:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703260439.XAA03785@jekyll.piermont.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jekyll.piermont.com: [[UNIX: localhost]] didn't use HELO protocol To: cjs@portal.ca cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:23:13 MST." <199703260423.VAA26968@phaeton.artisoft.com> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:39:41 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > No you aren't missing anything. > > > > Furthermore, he is claiming that breaking compatibility with existing > > code and scripts doesn't matter, either, in order to get this > > "improvement". > > What about "semantic seperation of command names from the FS on which > they are intended to operate"? Yup, Curt, you weren't missing anything at all. Perry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:44:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA14126 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14099 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA03826; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:42:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703260442.XAA03826@jekyll.piermont.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jekyll.piermont.com: [[UNIX: localhost]] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: cjs@portal.ca, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:23:13 MST." <199703260423.VAA26968@phaeton.artisoft.com> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:42:33 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk By the by, let me note: I'm not continuing this discussion. I think my point that there is no good reason to rename the commands (and lots of reasons not to since it breaks compatibility) has been made. I'm sure you can strain your mind to think of lots more "reasons" if you can call what you've posted thus far "reasons", and by all means, feel free to implement them in FreeBSD if your fellow FreeBSD developers think its a good idea. I've spoken my peace. Perry Terry Lambert writes: > > > So what you're saying is that the above is significantly better than > > > > > > $FSCMD_$FSTYPE $ARGS > > > > > > and > > > > > > for i in *_fstyp; do [stuff] ... > > > > > > Or am I missing something here? > > > > No you aren't missing anything. > > > > Furthermore, he is claiming that breaking compatibility with existing > > code and scripts doesn't matter, either, in order to get this > > "improvement". > > What about "semantic seperation of command names from the FS on which > they are intended to operate"? > > > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 20:50:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA14376 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA14369 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA27000; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:36:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260436.VAA27000@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:36:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: frankd@yoda.fdt.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703260351.TAA16687@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 97 07:51:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, I guess you never heard of a controlled discussion forum > before . I guess it most be a toooo simple idea. You see there are > classes of projects in which there is a strong desire to provide > a control forum . For instance, the current Bt848 video capture > project in the multimedia mailing is just a *simple* example. > For those kinds of project oriented processes it is desired to > have a structured / controlled environment. The point of this discussion *IS* to discuss a mechanism whereby the list archives are made useful. The point of this discussion is *NOT* to discuss a mechanism whereby the llists themselves can be made more useful. If you want a controlled discussion forum, then go to moderated news groups on a private hosting news net and password protect your servers for even more control. > If we can provide adequate presentation from enough controlled environments > then maybe we got a chance at controlling the wild growth in the > mailing list. Again, the point is to make the archives useful. A side effect of that should be capping the amount of repetition. I believe it would be a mistake to attempt to cap growth in participation. > > read all messages and determine where in the hierarchy each should go. Can > > we look forward to seeing an alpha version of your code soon? > > Nah, I repeat I leave such mundane task to Terry 8) Heh. > For the record , I do like Terry. In this case , I do think that he > can come up with a clever solution to the problem and not just sit on the > problem. And to clarify for anyone who might think otherwise: I never take any of these exchanges personally, even if they're intended that way. Frank: Amancio is a good guy (or I wouldn't give out his multimedia list and email address so much 8-)); I think we had a little confusion in semantics (what he posted _looke_ "blunt") due to him not being a native English speaker... it's hard to tell from his writing because he generally expresses himself better than most natives in his writing. Amancio: Well, what do you think of my suggested soloution? (see other posting). I doubt JMB will let me hack on the lists (and he probably shouldn't, I'm a terrible PERL programmer), but the changes are pretty trivial, except the "delay-archiving for parent arrival" and the reindexing, which is optional value-added functionality. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:06:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA15190 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:06:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15185 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA17149; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:04:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260504.VAA17149@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: frankd@yoda.fdt.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:36:05 MST." <199703260436.VAA27000@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:04:40 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, what do you think of my suggested soloution? (see other posting). > I doubt JMB will let me hack on the lists (and he probably shouldn't, > I'm a terrible PERL programmer), but the changes are pretty trivial, > except the "delay-archiving for parent arrival" and the reindexing, > which is optional value-added functionality. At a quick glance, they look good and it goes with my one thinking over here. I have to set time aside for thinking about a better way to organize and distribute the information. That Perl thingy which you mention is also a problem -- from an arm-chair it looks to me that perl is too cpu intensive and for high volume distribution we probably should stick to C or C++. Okay, after putting you in the spot, what I am looking for is to start a project to tackle the problem. Ideally first for the multimedia list. So if anyone is interested in *contributing* feel free to send me e-mail . Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:08:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA15321 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15316 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA09893; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:09:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260509.VAA09893@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: perry@piermont.com cc: Terry Lambert , cjs@portal.ca, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:42:33 EST." <199703260442.XAA03826@jekyll.piermont.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:09:06 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >By the by, let me note: I'm not continuing this discussion. > >I think my point that there is no good reason to rename the commands >(and lots of reasons not to since it breaks compatibility) has been >made. I'm sure you can strain your mind to think of lots more >"reasons" if you can call what you've posted thus far "reasons", and >by all means, feel free to implement them in FreeBSD if your fellow >FreeBSD developers think its a good idea. We have no plans or intentions on making any changes in this area. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:12:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA15544 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA15539 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA27162; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:58:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260458.VAA27162@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:58:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703260430.UAA16916@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 97 08:30:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Tnks Terry now thats a little better. Don't worry you are still not > off the hook yet 8) There is small thing that I am thinking about which > is a project to implement the list management. And I really will enjoy > for you to contribute. Well, a task list and sample data would help me, I suppose. I told you, I'm a rotten PERL programmer, didn't I? 8-) 8-). Probably one index? Key Contents ------------- ----------------------------------- Subject date real_head orphan_tail ------------- ----------------------------------- Or do you want branch indexing (bletch!)? How optimal does archive insertion need to be? > > Yes, physics is the only real science (mathematics is not a science, > > it is a tool). What has that got to do with the price of tea in > > China? > > > Oh, Maybe , just maybe a person's discipline may affect the way > that one goes about abstract thinking. Hmm... so you are saying people either think: 1) Like a physicist or 2) The Wrong Way ? 8-) 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:13:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA15624 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:13:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from jazz.snu.ac.kr (jazz.snu.ac.kr [147.46.102.36]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15609 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from junker@localhost) by jazz.snu.ac.kr (8.8.5/8.8.4-procmail) id OAA11540 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:07:03 +0900 (KST) From: Choi Jun Ho Message-Id: <199703260507.OAA11540@jazz.snu.ac.kr> Subject: who(1) is too simple? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:07:03 +0900 (KST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=EUC-KR Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just tried to define LC_TIME for our language, but it seems to to have some problem... see this. moderato:~% env LANG=en_US.ISO_8859-1 who junker ttyp0 Mar 26 11:25 (jazz) junker ttyp1 Mar 26 11:45 (jazz) moderato:~% env LANG=fr_FR.ISO_8859-1 who junker ttyp0 26 mar 11:25 (jazz) junker ttyp1 26 mar 11:45 (jazz) They all have in LC_TIME definition: # # c_fmt # %a %e %b %X %Y and who(1) use strftime(3) to show date and time. but, LC_TIME of ko_KR.EUC define as follows: # # c_fmt # $)C %Y3b %b %e@O %a?d@O %X (year) (month) (day) (weekday) (time) but, in the source of who.c: (void)strftime(buf, sizeof(buf), "%c", localtime(&up->ut_time)); buf[sizeof(buf) - 1] = '\0'; (void)printf("%.12s", buf + 4); it just skip 'weekdays'(buf+4) and display only 12 chars! (month(4)+day(3)+time(5)). it is not i18ned. So, when I run who(1) in ko_KR.EUC: moderato:~% who junker ttyp0 3b 3?y 26@O (jazz) (it doesn't display year, not time, only show month and day) I think there must be the change to use LC_TIME correctly... patching seems to be somewhat difficult, because when we must extract only information about weekend, month, day and time only if we must maintain display format compatibility, and it is not specified in LC_TIME, so it is very difficult to make balance according to each locale. How do you think about that? we must maintain compatability of display format of who(1)? (of course, some commercial UNIX do this... like Solaris or OSF/1) if not, how about considering using just c_fmt fully... output may like... junker ttyp0 Wed Mar 26 14:11:40 1997 (jazz) (hmm.. something strange?) -- --------------------------------------------------------------^^--- Judgement Uninfected Naked Kind & Executive Ranger - J U N K E R from KONAMI 1990 "SD-Snatcher" in MSX2 Choi Jun Ho http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker Distributed Computing System Lab, CS Dept., Seoul National Univ. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:29:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA16373 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA16366 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA27212; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:15:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703260515.WAA27212@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: perry@piermont.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:15:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703260433.XAA03736@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Mar 25, 97 11:33:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This makes no sense. > > The names of your programs have NOTHING to do with union mounts. You > can name them anything that doesn't conflict and union mount > them. Not, of course, that this is a reasonable use of union mounts, > but if it was, your comment still would make no sense. > > None of what you have said give any good reason why you might want to > name something ffs_mount or ffs/mount instead of mount_ffs. Look: I want it called "mount" not "ffs_mount" because I might refer to the directory containing the "ffs_mount" instead of the directory containing the agregating "mount" during boot. If the name of the program is not the same as the name of the agregator, then I have to have the agregator in all boot-time configurations. I want it in a directory so I can make all the commands come and go as I please knowing only the FS type on which they operate, and not which commands are (or aren't) implemented for a given FS type. It is an issue of switching granularity, nothing more. Union mounts might be one way the things come and go. AMD might be another. Component-based installation and deinstalltion might be yet another. As might an alternate installation scenario where the FS containing the commands is not the same as it is in a default install because I am droping my kernel in in place of an SCO or Solaris or Linux or ... kernel. Really, I don't *care* how they come and go, only that the way things are implemented allow it to happen easily and at the right switching granularity. The reference to "breaking existing dependencies" is silly without someone being able to cite a specific example of an existing dependency which would be broken. No one has yet provided such an example. The issues of interoperability are silly unless there is binary interoperability between the camps, which for these system-specific commands, there isn't at this time. > Not that this makes any sense (because it doesn't) but that still says > nothing about why you might want to name something ffs_mount instead > of mount_ffs. I *don't* want to name if "ffs_mount"; I want to name it "ffs/mount". Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:32:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA16631 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16608 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA07162 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:32:13 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id GAA19857 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:31:56 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.5/keltia-uucp-2.9) id BAA29289; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:01:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19970326010101.46673@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:01:01 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <199703251054.LAA10004@ravenock.cybercity.dk> <199703251211.MAA29866@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65,1-4,10,14-18 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3153 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Brian Somers: > ARRRRGH ! I had to install metamail to reply to this ! I'm _very_ surprised. Many people I know use Exmh with 8bit mail without any problem. For programs like Mutt and Exmh, metamail is almost never necessary (and not at all for all "text/plain" messages). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #41: Sun Mar 23 23:01:22 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:32:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA16659 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16632 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA07168 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:32:17 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id GAA19861 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:31:58 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.5/keltia-uucp-2.9) id AAA29270; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:58:32 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19970326005831.26424@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:58:31 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? References: <199703252049.NAA25652@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65,1-4,10,14-18 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3153 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to John Fieber: > Many messages have reliable In-Reply-To fields, but enough don't > that the best possible solution will need to use all three bits > of information (message id, date, subject). Some MUA like Mutt and GNUS/VM generate and use the News header References: (and fallback to In-Reply-To: and subject sorting if not present). When you have used this kind of program for, say, the FreeBSD lists, you can't go back for another mailer. I've been a Mutt-fan-from-Elm since July. Mutt is the best thing I've seen as an text-based MUA these days. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #41: Sun Mar 23 23:01:22 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:37:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA17029 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17006; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA10060; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:38:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260538.VAA10060@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark E Larson cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: intel 100b warning message In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:26:50 EST." <3.0.32.19970325202649.00b05320@agisgate.agis.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:38:55 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Ok, I have FreeBSD 2.2.1 running with 2 Intel 100B cards. They seem to be >running good. Hmmm...didn't you just say that two cards didn't work? Or are you saying that it works in the newer version of FreeBSD? > However I get a warning message on boot up for both cards. > >/kernel: fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type=1, addr=1 > >and of course the same message for fxp1 > >Just need to know what this is, and if it will hose me down when in >production. It's a new message I added to tell me when people had unusual cards where the PHY (The PHYsical layer chip) is not a National DP83840. In this case, the card should still work, but it might not work in full duplex mode and you won't be able to force 10/100 or half/full (which requires PHY diddling). "type=1" above tells me that the PHY is an 82553 (made by Intel). I didn't know that Intel made any Pro/100B's with that (all of the ones I have here have National DP83840's). Can you tell me about how old the card is? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 21:50:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA17996 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17989 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA29095; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:50:08 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:50 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10080; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:38:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id VAA02518; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:44:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:44:08 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199703260244.VAA02518@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers, ponds!uriah.heep.sax.de!joerg_wunsch, ponds!lakes.water.net!rivers Subject: "dup alloc" report - checking on recent fix to scsi_base.c Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joerg sent me the following (thanks!) which I had high hopes of fixing the "dup alloc" problem (as it is exactly the type of thing I'm looking for...) and is exactly where I'm looking... (My own tests didn't bring this case forward; but I'm willing to believe my tests aren't worth diddly :-) ) Unfortunately, after trying it out, it wasn't the case... that is, the problem still occurs.... (sigh.) Back to the printf()s.... - Dave Rivers - > > As Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > This patch didn't come across my mail... can you send it to me? > > [I'm guessing it's just wrapping calls to free_xs() with splbio()/splx, > > but I want to make sure.] > > Your guess is correct. :) > > Index: /sys/scsi/scsi_base.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /home/cvs/src/sys/scsi/scsi_base.c,v > retrieving revision 1.46 > retrieving revision 1.47 > diff -u -u -r1.46 -r1.47 > --- scsi_base.c 1997/03/23 06:33:46 1.46 > +++ scsi_base.c 1997/03/24 01:46:15 1.47 > @@ -616,7 +616,9 @@ > * check if anyone else needs to be started up. > */ > bad: > + s = splbio(); > free_xs(xs, sc_link, flags); /* includes the 'start' op */ > + splx(s); > if (bp && retval) { > bp->b_error = retval; > bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; > > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 22:47:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA20367 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20362 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.91]) by Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA14086; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:46:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199703260646.WAA14086@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> X-Authentication-Warning: Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU: Host Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.91] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:15:48 MST." <199703260515.WAA27212@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:46:15 -0800 From: Jonathan Stone Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:15:48 MST.", Terry Lambert writes: >I *don't* want to name if "ffs_mount"; I want to name it "ffs/mount". It seems this side of the house just sincerely doesn't understand the sublime difference which that three-bit difference clearly makes for you. Terry, on the off-chance you haven't noticed yet from the particpant's names: this thread is taking place on both hackers@freebsd.org and port-i386@netbsd.org. Those of us from the NetBSD side of the house haven't seen any of the conversation you cite. We don't have any of the relevant context. The reasons you've offered so far have all been couched in your own private terminology. To those of us handicapped by lack of context, all the ``reasons'' you offer are indistinguishable from technobabble. (Not to say that's all they are; simply that we can't tell the difference, because we've never seen the words you use, used quite that way before.) I really haven't followed the debate so far, because it looks too much like nothing more than a big-endian vs. little-endian religious war. That alone means some of us won't *ever* be sufficiently motivated to understand the reasons that lie behind your preferences, unless perhaps we encounter the same issues ourselves. To us heathens, your preference really *is* just a three-bit difference. Can we let this one slide, while there's still some chance an outside observer would think we still count as members of an intelligent species? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 23:01:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA21237 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21231 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA17819; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:00:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703260700.XAA17819@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:58:23 MST." <199703260458.VAA27162@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:00:12 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I like your presentation . Just have to think about it a little bit more . For instance, it reminds about a set of keys to store in a database for fast queries. Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Terry Lambert : > > Tnks Terry now thats a little better. Don't worry you are still not > > off the hook yet 8) There is small thing that I am thinking about which > > is a project to implement the list management. And I really will enjoy > > for you to contribute. > > Well, a task list and sample data would help me, I suppose. I told you, > I'm a rotten PERL programmer, didn't I? 8-) 8-). > > Probably one index? > > Key Contents > ------------- ----------------------------------- > Subject date real_head orphan_tail > ------------- ----------------------------------- > > Or do you want branch indexing (bletch!)? > > How optimal does archive insertion need to be? > > > > > Yes, physics is the only real science (mathematics is not a science, > > > it is a tool). What has that got to do with the price of tea in > > > China? > > > > > > Oh, Maybe , just maybe a person's discipline may affect the way > > that one goes about abstract thinking. > > Hmm... so you are saying people either think: > > 1) Like a physicist > > or > > 2) The Wrong Way > > ? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 23:45:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA23645 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:45:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA23623 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA18952; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:43:29 +0300 X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:43:29 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Lars Jonas Olsson cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Symbios 53C876 (differential) and 20 GB DLT tape drive In-Reply-To: <199703251645.KAA10669@Venus.mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Lars Jonas Olsson wrote: > I'm thinking of buying a DLT subsystem from CSC. Its a 10/20 GB DLT > drive in external enclosure, cable, terminator, and controller for > $1495. > > The controller is based on Symbios 53C876. Is this likely to work > with FreeBSD? Is the programming any different or is it only > electrically different (differential vs single ended)? > > What about 10/20 GB DLT drives, can modenr 20/40 GB drives read the > older tapes? Any other recommended drives? I already have a 2/4 GB DAT > drive and am looking for something bigger and more reliable. AFAIK (and you can probably check quentum's or DEC's web site for details) all DLT drives can read from and write to all lower-capacity DLT tapes. The only model I'm not sure about is the 35GB/70GB. I guess it probably reads/writes 10 and 20 GB tapes, but it's worth checking if it's important to you. > > Jonas > > Nadav From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 25 23:53:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA24008 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:53:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA24003 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id SAA01189; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:45:14 +1100 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:45:14 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199703260745.SAA01189@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: brianc@netrover.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: binary/resident size Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Just for curiousity's sake I built an assembler program that consisted soley >of "jmp ." (just to keep track of how much idle time has been "wasted". >I suspect cp_time[CP_IDLE] could tell me the same thing, but not via ps >or top). Too bad `hlt' is a privileged instruction. `jmp' will keep the CPU warm. >I guess I wasn't entirely surprised that when linked the binary was 4k. > > text data bss dec hex > 4096 0 0 4096 1000 > >What I don't understand is why VSZ is 132k and RSS is 20k. > > UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > 134 2443 1 333 74 20 132 20 - RN v1- 5502:24.27 idle > >It is run as 'idprio 31 nice -20 idle'. I get an RSS of 24 under -current. 24 is easy to explain: 1 page text 1 page stack 1 page page directory 1 page page table 2 pages user area I don't know what the big VSZ is for. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 00:21:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA25163 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA25158 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA22693 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:21:15 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10036; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:01:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326090141.LZ12931@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:01:41 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <19970326012336.IK14554@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199703260417.VAA26928@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703260417.VAA26928@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mar 25, 1997 21:17:06 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > What's German for "Backspace"? Are you saying thre are no German > keyboards with "Backspace" implied for the key? IMHO none of the non-English keyboards has any word on that keycap, they all have <--. The German word for "Backspace" is "Backspace", at least i don't know of another. And mind you, they have translated everything else on these keyboards, including labelling the control keys "Strg", for "Steuerung". Needless to say, people call it the ``String key'' now since they make an English meaning out of this stupid abbreviation. :-( I've just verified the DEC VT320 manual i've got here, and all their keycaps (all languages) have this ___ < x | ~~~ symbol on it. It's neutral to whether you spell it as backspace or delete, it's just what it is meant to be: the rubout key. So it rather looks like a mistake that US-ASCII PC keyboards hardwire the meaning of this key. Nobody else seems to do it... But we've been there before, and decided that it's a religious issue, and the only `solution' can be to leave it as it is. Thus, this is my last posting in this matter. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 00:22:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA25227 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA25216 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA22698 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:21:56 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10101; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:13:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326091337.NA43518@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:13:37 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: Need a copy of /usr/libexec/lpr/lpf References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Mar 25, 1997 17:41:13 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Snob Art Genre wrote: > > Rats! I should have checked. I just took the path supplied in the > > original question. :-( > > The path in the original question is correct. Perhaps the source is in > the wrong place? No, it's one of the sources where you can't use the canonical rule for where to find it. The lpr source directory contains various subdirectories for the related programs. My whereis(1) rewrite goes greath lengths to even find this kind of sources, and it does find lpd for example. It doesn't find lpf however since it's not located in a directory named `lpf', but named `filter'. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 00:22:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA25283 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA25256 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA22701; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:22:03 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10118; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:16:16 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326091616.OD34811@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:16:16 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: jfesler@calweb.com (Jason Fesler) Subject: Re: How to add extra shutdown code? References: <3.0.1.32.19970325152304.00a22800@pop.calweb.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel O'Callaghan on Mar 26, 1997 12:13:23 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > Might be a nice addition to the system to have an rc.halt which is > processed by halt and reboot if it exists, though. We have been threatening with the rc.shutdown addition for quite some time now, and last time it has been discussed, nearly reached a consensus for it. It will happen some day. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 01:50:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA29798 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29608 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA10478; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:40:15 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:40:13 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting a 100Mbps card to work In-Reply-To: <19970326002027.FH31284@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Narvi wrote: > > > The problem is simple - it (actually 3 of them) do not work with BSD (the > > others sit in Windows machines). > > > > Now the details - > > > > 1) Chip used by the cards - DEC 21140-AE (yes, AE). > > The problem is simple: which version of FreeBSD? You didn't indicate > this. 2.2-RELEASE kernel. > [snip - I will try to see if the version from -current works] > If this doesn't solve your problem, you probably will need the most > recent version of Matt's driver which hasn't been integrated yet (just > announced a couple of days ago). Yes, I saw the announcement. Even if I wanted, I most probably could not fetch it - the links to the "outside" a presently only good enough for mails and some "modearate" surfing - nothing biger than about 10K gets through... Sander > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 02:48:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA02360 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:48:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02354 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id KAA20697; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:45:56 GMT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:36:00 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:36:00 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199703260403.VAA26869@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199703260131.RAA15627@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 97 05:31:56 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert , hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 4:03 am -0000 26/3/97, Terry Lambert wrote: >Yes, physics is the only real science (mathematics is not a science, >it is a tool). There are two pure sciences: mathematics and cooking. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 03:01:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA02926 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:01:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02918 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:01:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA11994; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:01:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703261101.DAA11994@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: brianc@netrover.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: binary/resident size In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:45:14 +1100." <199703260745.SAA01189@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:01:07 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND >> 134 2443 1 333 74 20 132 20 - RN v1- 5502:24.27 idle >> >>It is run as 'idprio 31 nice -20 idle'. > >I get an RSS of 24 under -current. 24 is easy to explain: > > 1 page text > 1 page stack > 1 page page directory > 1 page page table > 2 pages user area > >I don't know what the big VSZ is for. The entire stack virtual size is included and starts out as 128K, thus 128(stack)+4(text) = 132K. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 03:03:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA03012 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03003 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id LAA20818; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:01:00 GMT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:55:26 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:55:26 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199703252232.PAA25997@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199703251456.OAA00459@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> from "Brian Somers" at Mar 25, 97 02:56:27 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert , brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:32 pm -0000 25/3/97, Terry Lambert wrote: >> The ASCII DEL (0x7f) is an artifact of paper tape[...] > >The ASCII DEL (0x7f) is an artifact of terminal devices which sent >^H for cursor left, ^J for cursor down, ^K for cursor up, and ^L for >cursor right. All 1's as DEL is an artefact of paper tape since the days of 5-hole. See ITU/T Alphabet no. 2, aka ITA or Baudot code. Predates electronic digital computers somewhat. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 03:28:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA03801 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from trifork.gu.net (trifork.gu.net [194.93.190.194]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03795 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.gu.kiev.ua [127.0.0.1]) by trifork.gu.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA06732; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:28:28 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:28:28 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: Michael Smith cc: Shawn Carey , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? In-Reply-To: <199703260321.NAA24228@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > > This looks very much like a problem that has been reported many times > before, where one or more pages from a process' text are written back > to the file. The pages aren't actually changed, but the file's timestamp > is obviously updated. Just curious, what will happen in case the program file affected by this bug will occasionally reside on a R/O-mounted FS? If the kernel will eat this difference quietly, without any strange side effects, crashes, messages or so -- I'd probably wonder... Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 03:45:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA04433 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:45:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA04428 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:45:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA29114 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:44:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703261144.GAA29114@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:25:43 EST." <33388927.41C67EA6@servtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:44:58 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk smc@servtech.com said: :- gdb now stops the program with the message "Process killed due to text :- file modification", and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a :- diff between an idle copy and the "modified" executable is nil. I recall that SVR4 had this bug (shared libs getting touched during execution of a program) for quite a while... Did we inherit it from the same place they did? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 04:22:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA06045 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:22:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (mobile8.rad.cc.keio.ac.jp [131.113.16.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06039 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.8.5/8.8.2) id VAA01593; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:21:05 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:21:05 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199703261221.VAA01593@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Serious boot problem of 2.2.1-RELEASE From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.19PL2] 1996-01/26(Fri) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Many users of two major machines in Japan reported a serious boot problem of 2.2.1-RELEASE. 2.2.1-release can't start userland processes on Panasonic's Let's Note and Chandler subnotebook. This problem does not happen on 2.2-961014-SNAP, but it happens on 2.2-ALPHA. Today I borrowed Panasonic's machine, and now I'm tracing this bug with CVSup'ing the -current source between October 96 and November 96. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp hosokawa@jp.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 04:24:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA06131 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06126 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:24:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28658; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:53:14 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703261223.WAA28658@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? In-Reply-To: <199703261144.GAA29114@spooky.rwwa.com> from Robert Withrow at "Mar 26, 97 06:44:58 am" To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:53:14 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robert Withrow stands accused of saying: > > smc@servtech.com said: > :- gdb now stops the program with the message "Process killed due to text > :- file modification", and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a > :- diff between an idle copy and the "modified" executable is nil. > I recall that SVR4 had this bug (shared libs getting touched during > execution of a program) for quite a while... Did we inherit it from > the same place they did? No idea, where did they inherit it from? > Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 04:36:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA06496 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06489 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:36:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA25453 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:55:30 GMT Received: (from brian@localhost) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11351; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:54:25 GMT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:54:25 GMT Message-Id: <199703261154.LAA11351@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Reply-To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk Organization: Awfulhak Ltd. References: <5h2c01$4i2@reader.seed.net.tw> <5h6e83$1mk@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <5h8905$lj1@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <87g1xkqe8d.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> <5h9m3l$1ih@gurney.zeta.org.au> From: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [This message is going to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc and freebsd-hackers!] In article <5h9m3l$1ih@gurney.zeta.org.au>, andrew@gurney.zeta.org.au (Andrew Reilly) writes: > In article <87g1xkqe8d.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk>, > Andrew Gierth writes: > >> From a user's point of view, and assuming a PC keyboard, there are two keys >> to consider; the <- (backspace) key, and the "Delete" key. Normal user >> expectations require <- to behave as a *destructive* backspace, and "Delete" >> to be 'delete character forward' (kdch1 in terminfo-speek). This can best be >> achieved by having <- generate DEL, having "Delete" generate an escape >> sequence, and defaulting to 'stty erase ^?'. (Which is what I have done on >> my system, and have done in the past to many other Unix flavours, terminals >> and terminal emulators.) This leaves ^h free, which keeps Emacs happy. >> Having "Delete" generate ^h is insane, and likely to confuse people >> considerably. > > Yes, but which escape sequence, and how do you do that? > > I've discovered that using xmodmap to make the "<-" key > return "Delete" makes emacs happy, but Netscape and other > Motif-style applications insist on "BackSpace". So what's > one to do? I believe (now) that the correct way is to have BS as 0x08 - conflicting with emacs. The ASCII standard (man ascii) says very specifically that BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f, so unless this is changed, we're stuck with it. Now, assuming people want to use BS to rubout characters (I'm sure that much is standard these days!!?!), emacs has made a bad choice for the help binding. Anyone that thinks that emacs is correct (it makes more sense IMHO) will have to go to whatever standards committee governs the ascii chart and convince them first. As this will not happen (anyone care to bet?), emacs is wrong from a "standards" perspective and should bind the help system to something like ^x^h (suggested by Terry Lambert on freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org where this discussion is also being flogged to death). That said, FreeBSD's default erase character is 0x7f and roots ..profile changes it to 0x08 so that things work. I propose that I change this so that erase = ^h by default and there's no stty in roots .profile. At least this would make things consistent - and may stiffle the frequency of this discussion as things will work "out of the box". I'll co-ordinate with Jordan (the maintainer of the emacs port) a patch to change the default help key binding to ^x^h (now that's gonna cause some "controversial" arguments!) - assuming he agrees. Assuming that nobody has any serious objections to me doing this, I'll make the mods to FreeBSD-current (3.0). Anyone that subsequently changes things so that erase = ^? to get emacs to work with the default key bindings will almost definitely already know what they're doing (*shrug*) and will have the insite to do a "man ascii" before bringing this up again - more than I can say for myself !. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 05:37:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA08669 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from squirrel.tgsoft.com (squirrel.tgsoft.com [207.167.64.183]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA08662 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from thompson@localhost) by squirrel.tgsoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA03453; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:34:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:34:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703261334.FAA03453@squirrel.tgsoft.com> From: mark thompson To: sos@ravenock.cybercity.dk CC: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: "S"'s message of Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:37:46 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Søren Schmidt Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:37:46 +0100 (MET) In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > > > *SIGH*, why does this come up again and again?? > > 'cos it doesn't make sense (*stir* *stir* *stir*). Yes it does :) > > > The DEL key would send whatever the Backspace key doesn't. > > > > > > (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) > > > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 > > DEL = DELETE = 0x7f > > > > Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? > > So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them > contradict their names ? Change emacs ?? (define-key global-map "" 'delete-backward-char) ;; Move the help key someplace more sensible (define-key esc-map "?" 'help-command) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 05:45:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA09063 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from squirrel.tgsoft.com (squirrel.tgsoft.com [207.167.64.183]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA09053 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:45:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from thompson@localhost) by squirrel.tgsoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA03500; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:45:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:45:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703261345.FAA03500@squirrel.tgsoft.com> From: mark thompson To: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org CC: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: message from Brian Somers on Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:09:38 +0000 Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Brian Somers Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:09:38 +0000 > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > > In reply to Brian Somers who wrote: > > > > > > *SIGH*, why does this come up again and again?? > > > > 'cos it doesn't make sense (*stir* *stir* *stir*). > > Yes it does :) > > > > > The DEL key would send whatever the Backspace key doesn't. > > > > > > > > (I'd prefer BS=^?, DEL=^h) > > > > > > BS = BACKSPACE = 0x08 > > > DEL = DELETE = 0x7f > > > > > > Why on earth should they be reversed contradicting their names ?? > > > > So that emacs' help system can work. Why would reversing them > > contradict their names ? > > Change emacs ?? > > Because "back space" in ascii parlour is 0x08, and "delete" is 0x7f > thats why....go check an ascii chart... Yep - it just occurred to me to look at an ascii chart. This appealing to the ascii chart is getting rather silly. On some of the old teletypes 'BS' backed the print head up so you could overtype (ie. back-space). Since it was a printing process, the previous character was not deleted, merely overstruck. The key, by contrast, punched out all 7 data channels on a paper tape (it was originally called ). Many systems ignored rubouts (so you could wipeout mispunched characters). Others took them as an interrupt character. I believe older unices defaultly did that. Back in those days, DEC, at least, was pretty consistent in using to mean 'delete the previous typein'. Others used BS to mean roughly the same. Since unix is nice enough to let you pick, why do we need to argue? -mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 05:49:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA09263 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:49:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay-7.mail.demon.net (relay-7.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA09255 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:49:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from erlenstar.demon.co.uk ([194.222.144.22]) by relay-6.mail.demon.net id aa0615849; 26 Mar 97 13:18 GMT Received: (from andrew@localhost) by erlenstar.demon.co.uk (8.8.3/8.8.3) id NAA01298; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:18:41 GMT To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk Cc: brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <5h2c01$4i2@reader.seed.net.tw> <5h6e83$1mk@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <5h8905$lj1@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <87g1xkqe8d.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> <5h9m3l$1ih@gurney.zeta.org.au> <199703261154.LAA11351@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> From: Andrew Gierth In-Reply-To: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org.demon.co.uk's message of Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:54:25 GMT X-Mayan-Date: Long count = 12.19.4.0.9; tzolkin = 12 Muluc; haab = 12 Cumku X-Attribution: AG Date: 26 Mar 1997 13:18:40 +0000 Message-ID: <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Somers writes: Brian> I'll co-ordinate with Brian> Jordan (the maintainer of the emacs port) a patch to change Brian> the default help key binding to ^x^h (now that's gonna cause Brian> some "controversial" arguments!) - assuming he agrees. Please don't do this until you have reviewed the prior debates on comp.emacs as to future directions of the help key binding. The issue is less straightforward than you are assuming. -- Andrew. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 06:05:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA09990 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:05:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA09982 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28044; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:05:32 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15623; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:05:31 GMT Message-Id: <199703261405.OAA15623@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Andrew Gierth cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "26 Mar 1997 13:18:40 GMT." <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:05:31 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Somers writes: > > Brian> I'll co-ordinate with > Brian> Jordan (the maintainer of the emacs port) a patch to change > Brian> the default help key binding to ^x^h (now that's gonna cause > Brian> some "controversial" arguments!) - assuming he agrees. > > Please don't do this until you have reviewed the prior debates on comp.emacs > as to future directions of the help key binding. The issue is less > straightforward than you are assuming. > > -- > Andrew. Ok, I've subscribed to comp.emacs* - it'll take a little time for the feed to drip. I'll hold off any suggestions on changing the emacs port 'till I have an idea of what's going on there. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 06:28:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA11188 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from orchard.east-arlington.ma.us (sommerfeld.ne.highway1.com [24.128.53.76]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA11168 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:28:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by orchard.east-arlington.ma.us (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id OAA10034; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:26:39 GMT Message-Id: <199703261426.OAA10034@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us> To: Jonathan Stone cc: Terry Lambert , perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:46:15 -0800 ." <199703260646.WAA14086@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:26:35 -0500 From: Bill Sommerfeld Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I believe I understand what Terry's suggesting. He wants to be able to be able to have a new filesystem type appear by simply mounting (or symlinking, or copying) the implementation of a new filesystem type into /sbin/fs/foo, and he believes that the name of the filesystem type should be defined purely by the name used in the /sbin/fs directory, and not by anything inherent in the binaries found inside /sbin/fs/foo/. so that, as an extreme case, one could do mv /sbin/fs/{nfs,losefs} and sed 's/nfs/losefs/' /etc/fstab.NEW && mv /etc/fstab{.NEW,} and reboot, and everything will keep working.. - Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 06:39:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA11823 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:39:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from agisgate.agis.net (agisgate.agis.net [205.137.48.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA11796; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from radio (ops1.agis.net [205.137.48.54]) by agisgate.agis.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06619; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:39:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970326094026.0102bc20@agisgate.agis.net> X-Sender: markl@agisgate.agis.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:40:26 -0500 To: dg@root.com From: Mark E Larson Subject: Re: intel 100b warning message Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:38 PM 3/25/97 -0800, David Greenman wrote: >>Ok, I have FreeBSD 2.2.1 running with 2 Intel 100B cards. They seem to be >>running good. > > Hmmm...didn't you just say that two cards didn't work? Or are you saying >that it works in the newer version of FreeBSD? > Yea. I got them to work with 2.2.1 but not with 2.1.5 >> However I get a warning message on boot up for both cards. >> >>/kernel: fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type=1, addr=1 >> >>and of course the same message for fxp1 >> >>Just need to know what this is, and if it will hose me down when in >>production. > > It's a new message I added to tell me when people had unusual cards where >the PHY (The PHYsical layer chip) is not a National DP83840. In this case, >the card should still work, but it might not work in full duplex mode and you >won't be able to force 10/100 or half/full (which requires PHY diddling). >"type=1" above tells me that the PHY is an 82553 (made by Intel). I didn't >know that Intel made any Pro/100B's with that (all of the ones I have here >have National DP83840's). Can you tell me about how old the card is? > The cards are brand new. Just got them in last week. >-DG > >David Greenman >Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > ################################################################### A P E X G L O B A L I N F O R M A T I O N S E R V I C E S ################################################################### Network Operations Center 313-730-5151 noc@agis.net News Administration 313-730-5151 news@agis.net Business Office/Sales 313-730-1130 sales@agis.net Visit our Web Page: http://www.agis.net Network News Information: http://agisgate.agis.net/netnews/netnews.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't throw a HSSI...and drop that ethernet!" --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 07:09:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA14075 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:09:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from neptune.fairfax-emh1.army.mil (FAIRFAX-EMH1.ARMY.MIL [147.103.17.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14070 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by neptune.fairfax-emh1.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC39CD.BABB0970@neptune.fairfax-emh1.army.mil>; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:09:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Miller, Paul SGT" To: "'hackers'" Subject: XKeysymDB Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:09:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 11 TEXT Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am having difficulties with XKeysymDB either being located or I need a newer version of the file. I'm running netscape v3.01 (the only version available for UNIX). I have place XKeysymDB in all the necessary directories. It seems to still have trouble. I am hoping someone would be willing to help out a joe (military). Is there another fix? Paul Miller SGT, US Net Admin From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 07:24:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA15349 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:24:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA15338 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:24:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0w9uXw-000540-00; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:23:28 -0700 To: Andrew Gierth Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "26 Mar 1997 13:18:40 GMT." <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> References: <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> <5h2c01$4i2@reader.seed.net.tw> <5h6e83$1mk@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <5h8905$lj1@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <87g1xkqe8d.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> <5h9m3l$1ih@gurney.zeta.org.au> <199703261154.LAA11351@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:23:27 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> Andrew Gierth writes: : >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Somers writes: : Brian> I'll co-ordinate with : Brian> Jordan (the maintainer of the emacs port) a patch to change : Brian> the default help key binding to ^x^h (now that's gonna cause : Brian> some "controversial" arguments!) - assuming he agrees. That's a *BAD* Idea. *DO*NOT*CHANGE*EMACS*DEFAULTS*. Emacs may be broken, according to some of the more "religious" members of this group, but that's how it works. Don't make me relearn how to use emacs because some people have religious problems with DEL vs BS. Emacs works the way that it works, and if you don't like it, change it in *YOUR* .emacs file. But don't force it on me when I build from the ports/editors/emacs. At best you should mail Jordan a .emacs file snippet that can be included somewhere convenient so those people that want it can use it. : Please don't do this until you have reviewed the prior debates on comp.emacs : as to future directions of the help key binding. The issue is less : straightforward than you are assuming. Yes. While you "can" change emacs's notion of ^H vs ^?, it won't work in all contexts. Having tried to go that route several times myself, I can only say that too many packages know too much about the default bindings and won't really let you change them. My "final" solution for emacs was very simple. I put the following in my .Xdefaults file. XTerm*vt100*translations: #override \n\ BackSpace: string( 0x7f )\n and hacking my console keymap to do the right thing, imho, (that is the key labeled <-- generates DEL and the Delete key generates BS). I also have stty erase ^? in my .files. Every other solution that I tried to come up with pissed me off because they didn't work everywhere. Please note: I'm not suggesting changing the defaults for FreeBSD. It too works the way it works :-). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 07:38:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA16579 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:38:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from agisgate.agis.net (agisgate.agis.net [205.137.48.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16544; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:38:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from radio (ops1.agis.net [205.137.48.54]) by agisgate.agis.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07908; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:38:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970326103905.00a742c0@agisgate.agis.net> X-Sender: markl@agisgate.agis.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:39:06 -0500 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Mark E Larson Subject: Extended memory in 2.2.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy! Ok. I tried adding this line in the 2.2.1 kernel options "maxmem=1024*384" To reconize 384M of RAM. This worked under 2.1.5, but in 2.2.1 upon boot up the kernel says "memory bounce rebooting in 15 secs" So the question here is How do I specify the extra memory in 2.2.1 Thanx ################################################################### A P E X G L O B A L I N F O R M A T I O N S E R V I C E S ################################################################### Network Operations Center 313-730-5151 noc@agis.net News Administration 313-730-5151 news@agis.net Business Office/Sales 313-730-1130 sales@agis.net Visit our Web Page: http://www.agis.net Network News Information: http://agisgate.agis.net/netnews/netnews.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Don't throw a HSSI...and drop that ethernet!" --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 07:43:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA17273 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA17260 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:43:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (shift.utell.net [97.3.0.21]) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00483; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:04 GMT Received: from shift.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shift.lan.awfulhak.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21535; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:03 GMT Message-Id: <199703261543.PAA21535@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Warner Losh cc: Andrew Gierth , brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:23:27 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:03 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> Andrew Gierth writes: > : >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Somers writes: > : Brian> I'll co-ordinate with > : Brian> Jordan (the maintainer of the emacs port) a patch to change > : Brian> the default help key binding to ^x^h (now that's gonna cause > : Brian> some "controversial" arguments!) - assuming he agrees. > > That's a *BAD* Idea. *DO*NOT*CHANGE*EMACS*DEFAULTS*. Emacs may be > broken, according to some of the more "religious" members of this > group, but that's how it works. Don't make me relearn how to use > emacs because some people have religious problems with DEL vs BS. > Emacs works the way that it works, and if you don't like it, change it > in *YOUR* .emacs file. But don't force it on me when I build from the > ports/editors/emacs. > > At best you should mail Jordan a .emacs file snippet that can be > included somewhere convenient so those people that want it can use > it. > > : Please don't do this until you have reviewed the prior debates on comp.emacs > : as to future directions of the help key binding. The issue is less > : straightforward than you are assuming. > > Yes. While you "can" change emacs's notion of ^H vs ^?, it won't work > in all contexts. Having tried to go that route several times myself, > I can only say that too many packages know too much about the default > bindings and won't really let you change them. > > My "final" solution for emacs was very simple. I put the following in > my .Xdefaults file. > > XTerm*vt100*translations: #override \n\ > BackSpace: string( 0x7f )\n > > and hacking my console keymap to do the right thing, imho, (that is > the key labeled <-- generates DEL and the Delete key generates BS). > > I also have stty erase ^? in my .files. > > Every other solution that I tried to come up with pissed me off > because they didn't work everywhere. > > Please note: I'm not suggesting changing the defaults for FreeBSD. It > too works the way it works :-). > > Warner > This is a bad argument. You're saying that nothing should be changed because it would disturb the hacks that you *had* to do to get things right. I'm saying that there shouldn't be any hacks. You shouldn't have to reverse BS and DEL. Emacs has decided to use ^h for help - for whatever reason. This key (assuming things are corrected) can't be typed (unless you stick a ^v or whatever the terminal lnext char is in front of it), so it's a bad choice. You shouldn't be typing ^h unless you want to delete a character - unless you re-write your keyboard key translations, your termcap entry and do your sttys. BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f - that's the only standard cast in stone. The rest should be made work properly around this fact. Am I missing anything ? The idea is to stop the default from being "you've always got to hack this stuff on a unix box". Let's get it right. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 08:06:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA19341 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.barcode.co.il (gatekeeper.barcode.co.il [192.116.93.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19298; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nadav@localhost) by gatekeeper.barcode.co.il (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA08792; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:04:47 +0300 (IDT) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:04:46 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron To: Mark E Larson cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extended memory in 2.2.1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970326103905.00a742c0@agisgate.agis.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Mark E Larson wrote: > > Howdy! > > Ok. I tried adding this line in the 2.2.1 kernel > > options "maxmem=1024*384" > > To reconize 384M of RAM. This worked under 2.1.5, but in 2.2.1 upon boot > up the kernel says "memory bounce rebooting in 15 secs" First, kernel options are case sensitive, so it should read MAXMEM. Also you may have better luck by not letting it do the math, and simply giving: options "MAXMEM=383216" > > So the question here is How do I specify the extra memory in 2.2.1 > > Thanx > > ################################################################### > A P E X G L O B A L I N F O R M A T I O N S E R V I C E S > ################################################################### > Network Operations Center 313-730-5151 noc@agis.net > News Administration 313-730-5151 news@agis.net > Business Office/Sales 313-730-1130 sales@agis.net > > Visit our Web Page: http://www.agis.net > Network News Information: http://agisgate.agis.net/netnews/netnews.htm > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Don't throw a HSSI...and drop that ethernet!" > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nadav From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 08:27:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA21048 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:27:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA21040 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0w9vXq-00058x-00; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:27:26 -0700 To: Brian Somers Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:03 GMT." <199703261543.PAA21535@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> References: <199703261543.PAA21535@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:27:26 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [[ cc line trimmed ]] In message <199703261543.PAA21535@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Brian Somers writes: : This is a bad argument. You're saying that nothing should be changed : because it would disturb the hacks that you *had* to do to get things : right. No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that emacs works the way that it does. I type ^H to get help, and if it doesn't give me help, then I'll get upset. : I'm saying that there shouldn't be any hacks. You shouldn't have to : reverse BS and DEL. Emacs has decided to use ^h for help - for : whatever reason. This key (assuming things are corrected) can't be : typed (unless you stick a ^v or whatever the terminal lnext char is : in front of it), so it's a bad choice. You shouldn't be typing ^h : unless you want to delete a character - unless you re-write your : keyboard key translations, your termcap entry and do your sttys. Ummm, ^H can be typed easily. Place your left little finger on the control key and your left index finger on the H :-). And I strongly disagree. I hit that funny looking key over my Enter key when I want to delete the previous character. I guess I'm saying that emacs isn't broken. I usually use it in X mode and I type ^H to get help and BackSpace to delete. Don't change that at least. : BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f - that's the only standard cast in stone. The : rest should be made work properly around this fact. Am I missing : anything ? No. Well maybe. What character should be bound to erase in stty by default? Some do BS others do DEL. FreeBSD does BS (but used to do DEL). : The idea is to stop the default from being "you've always got to : hack this stuff on a unix box". Let's get it right. OK. Make the funny looking key generate 0x7f and the Delete key generate 0x08. That's the only right thing to do. Others will disagree, that's what makes it a religious argument. Hacking Emacs so that I have to re-learn emacs on my FreeBSD box is *BAD*. Yes, maybe emacs might have gotten it wrong, but that's how emacs works. Don't break emacs with your religious wars. Emacs works just fine on many many different systems. Making it different on FreeBSD for religious reasons is *BAD*. I'm sorry to be adamant about this, but think about this for a bit. Changing Emacs is a religious solution to a religious problem. Emacs works the way that it does. It would be like saying that vi's insert mode was a bad idea and all the keys should be rebound to control keys so that there wouldn't need to be two modes. This is a religious argument, and will likely never get agreement on it. BTW, I'm not saying it is a bad idea to change things because they will disturb my hacks. I'm saying it is a bad idea to change the default behavior of emacs. That's a big reason I don't use XEmacs, for example. My brain is wired to use emacs, and changes to it should only be done as a last resort. And we're no where near that yet. My argument is "Emacs works the way that it works. ^H is bound to the help stuff. My fingers (and lots of other people) know how to cope. It is unfortunate that FreeBSD generates 0x08 for the funny looking key, but don't go remapping emacs default keys to compensate. Besides, it works just fine when running as an X window." Yes, it would be nice for things to work out of the box. Go get the folks gnu.emacs.* groups to agree to this change, and I'll give in. Don't sneak it in based on discussions here. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 08:49:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22822 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22807 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:49:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA29203 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:49:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id SAA15032 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:00:53 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:00:53 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199703261700.SAA15032@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: 2.2-RELEASE install.sh problems - false alarm Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I reported a problem with using install.sh all of the source distribution. This problem was introduced here locally. I transferred the 2.2-RELEASE as one big tar (80 MB) file over my local ISDN link to my home machine and it seemed that some files got corrupted due to a flaky local ethernet network. Sorry for the false alarm. -- Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 08:56:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA23498 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23469 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:56:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA14186; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:55:58 -0800 (PST) To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious boot problem of 2.2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:21:05 +0900." <199703261221.VAA01593@lenlen.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:55:58 -0800 Message-ID: <14183.859395358@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Many users of two major machines in Japan reported a serious boot > problem of 2.2.1-RELEASE. Oh well. There's always 2.2.5... Jordan P.S. Yes, I have released 2.2.1 for the very last time. Even if you told me they were posessed by the devil and caused Japanese machines to chant "6-6-6! I am the anti-christ!" I would not re-release these bits one more time. :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 09:14:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA25716 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25697 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA14393; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:13:33 -0800 (PST) To: Brian Somers cc: Warner Losh , Andrew Gierth , brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:03 GMT." <199703261543.PAA21535@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:13:33 -0800 Message-ID: <14390.859396413@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The idea is to stop the default from being "you've always got to > hack this stuff on a unix box". Let's get it right. Again, I see the probability that anything at all will change as a result of this conversation as being very close to zero. There is just too much dissention, and without a clear concensus you may rest assured that things will, indeed, stay just as they always have been. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 09:14:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA25735 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:14:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25715 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:14:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA14359; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:11:21 -0800 (PST) To: Warner Losh cc: Andrew Gierth , brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:23:27 MST." Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:11:21 -0800 Message-ID: <14355.859396281@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > At best you should mail Jordan a .emacs file snippet that can be > included somewhere convenient so those people that want it can use > it. I'm not EVEN getting involved in this discussion, not even to that extent, so just forget it. :-) I find a hard time even believing that this issue is being debated Yet Again when we have so many more important things to deal with right now. This entire delete vs backspace discussion is a monsterous waste of time and energy and I certainly have no intention of changing a single thing as a result of it, so I have to wonder what the whole point of this debate even is. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 09:30:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27556 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27540 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:30:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA00332 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:30:33 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id SAA15354 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:41:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:41:52 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199703261741.SAA15354@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: netlib.att.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know what happened to netlib.att.com - the site that used to host netlib/f2c ? ftp.att.com is there and they are reporting of an 'inferno' that occured to them on Aug 8, 1996. -- Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 09:41:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28989 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28971 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA04541 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:46:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970326124004.00b4c370@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:40:06 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis Subject: 2.2.1-RELEASE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? db From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 09:43:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29385 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29374 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:43:41 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25067 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:45:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13009 invoked by uid 110); 26 Mar 1997 17:43:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19970326174311.13007.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: Privileged ports... In-Reply-To: <199703261441.GAA12899@root.com> from David Greenman at "Mar 26, 97 06:41:11 am" To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:43:11 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The only problem here is that it kinda defeats the whole purpose of prived > >ports in the first place. I guess the whole thing here is to write small > >programs that do the necessary SUID bit, then drop back down into > >nonrootland to continue. > > > >David (and anyone else interested) - I'd be very interested in hearing > >what security holes would be introduced by having a UID (or GID) to bind > >to priv'ed ports. > > None that I can think of if I understand you correctly. The thing you > want to prevent is regular users being able to bind to a privileged port. > It would take an average cracker less than 5 minutes to whip up a couple > of really nasty programs (such as one that pretends to be rlogin - claiming > to be some other user). As long as you retain control over who/what can > bind to the privileged ports, I don't see any problem. > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project I already wrote code to do this, which merged the whole domain into ipfw, together with uid/gid rules for all incoming and outgoing traffic at a packet level. Trod on too many toes I think. Cheers, Julian. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 10:06:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA02703 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from renoir.cftnet.com (renoir.cftnet.com [163.125.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02637; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:06:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (gambert@localhost) by renoir.cftnet.com (8.8.0/8.6.4) id NAA02808; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:06:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:06:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Allen W. Gambert" X-Sender: gambert@renoir.cftnet.com To: Mark E Larson cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extended memory in 2.2.1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970326103905.00a742c0@agisgate.agis.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yeah, I noticed this same thing. When I tried options MAXMEM="256*1024" I got the same thing. I kept tring to reduce it; I cant remember what I was able to get it down to, but when it did finally boot the machine would lockup after awhile. I than kept tring to reduce it and it finally stabilized at options MAXMEM="128*1024" I have not had the time to determine where the problem lies. Anybody else have any comments? Currently my system is a Pentium Pro 150Mhz with an adaptec 3940UW PCI scsi controller with a 9Gig drive. Now that the system is stable it smokes. Good luck, Allen On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Mark E Larson wrote: > > Howdy! > > Ok. I tried adding this line in the 2.2.1 kernel > > options "maxmem=1024*384" > > To reconize 384M of RAM. This worked under 2.1.5, but in 2.2.1 upon boot > up the kernel says "memory bounce rebooting in 15 secs" > > So the question here is How do I specify the extra memory in 2.2.1 > > Thanx > > ################################################################### > A P E X G L O B A L I N F O R M A T I O N S E R V I C E S > ################################################################### > Network Operations Center 313-730-5151 noc@agis.net > News Administration 313-730-5151 news@agis.net > Business Office/Sales 313-730-1130 sales@agis.net > > Visit our Web Page: http://www.agis.net > Network News Information: http://agisgate.agis.net/netnews/netnews.htm > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Don't throw a HSSI...and drop that ethernet!" > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Allen W. Gambert (813)980-1317 CFTnet Operation Center gambert@cftnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 10:35:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA06294 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:35:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from miles.aa.net (cust6.max5.seattle.aa.net [206.125.79.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06285 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from miles.aa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by miles.aa.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA15637; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:40:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703261840.KAA15637@miles.aa.net> To: Brian Somers cc: Warner Losh , Andrew Gierth , brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:03 GMT." <199703261543.PAA21535@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.101) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:40:45 -0800 From: "Reginald S. Perry" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:43:03 +0000, Brian Somers said: Brian> BS=0x08 and DEL=0x7f - that's the only standard cast in Brian> stone. The rest should be made work properly around this Brian> fact. Am I missing anything ? Brian> The idea is to stop the default from being "you've always Brian> got to hack this stuff on a unix box". Let's get it right. Well I think this is a tough one. First we have to define whats broken. I believe that its only the introduction of the PC keyboard that broke this. The VT200 I have sitting here has a delete key where the backspace key is on the keyboard. I know this was true of all DEC terminals and I believe that the ANSI terminal standard evolved from DEC terminals. I think that most of the terminals I used back in the bad old days of the early eighties had a delete key there. Emacs was developed using terminals older than the VT series and the delete key, control key and escape key were in the places where GOD intended them to be, i.e. not requiring knowledge of the vulcan nerve pinch to do useful work. :-) So I would hate that you change the semantics and then when I hook my terminal back onto my machine, it breaks that. -Reggie From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 10:37:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA06538 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:37:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from becker1.u.washington.edu (spaz@becker1.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06528 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:37:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (spaz@localhost) by becker1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW96.12/8.8.4+UW97.03) with SMTP id KAA12448; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:37:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:36:59 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: netlib.att.com In-Reply-To: <199703261741.SAA15354@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi; netlib is now something sort of independent. mira: {1} nslookup ftp.netlib.com Server: dns1.cac.washington.edu Address: 128.95.120.1 Name: virt-290.connix.com Address: 205.246.115.66 Aliases: ftp.netlib.com oops! this is a software company here we go, this is where i grabbed libfftpack from last week. ( boy, it is great to have a functional fortran again, why would u want to use f2c? ) mira: {2} nslookup ftp.netlib.org Server: dns1.cac.washington.edu Address: 128.95.120.1 Name: ftp.netlib.org Address: 128.169.92.17 On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > Does anyone know what happened to netlib.att.com - the site that used > to host netlib/f2c ? > > ftp.att.com is there and they are reporting of an 'inferno' > that occured to them on Aug 8, 1996. > > > -- > Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 11:05:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09976 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09961 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28231; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:02:28 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:02:28 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Bill Sommerfeld cc: Jonathan Stone , Terry Lambert , perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, NetBSD i386 Users Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-Reply-To: <199703261426.OAA10034@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > ...and he believes that the name > of the filesystem type should be defined purely by the name used in > the /sbin/fs directory, and not by anything inherent in the binaries > found inside /sbin/fs/foo/. In other words, one wants /sbin/nfs/mount, and /sbin/nfs/nfsmount is wrong because the word `nfs' appears in the files under /sbin/nfs? I can't see what advantage this offers besides aesthetic. Certainly the code doesn't care whether or not there's an _ or a / between the two %s strings in the printf format. It does seem to me to be a disadvantage in that if the file is ever encountered outside of the tree (say, you restore a single file from backup) it's very easy to get confused as to which mount program it is. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite myst, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 11:25:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA12634 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA12523; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.18]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15813(4)>; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:23:29 PST Received: from gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com [13.231.133.90]) by www.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03926; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:21:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/client-1.3) id AA11888; Wed, 26 Mar 97 14:20:58 EST Message-Id: <9703261920.AA11888@gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Michael Smith Cc: johnp@lodgenet.com (John Prince), se@freebsd.org, spaz@u.washington.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSWord docs... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:36:16 PST." <199703202336.KAA09871@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:20:57 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > John Prince stands accused of saying: > > How does that help with word95 and the office 97 stuff.. > > Most windows machines shipped today do not ship with word6.x. > > Word 7 is Word 6 with different icons, basically. The file format > and structure are the same. > > -- Is there anything which explains the format for a word document? Can word6 be viewed on dos? (is there a dos reader for word6 documents?) -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com The Feynman problem solving Algorithm 1) Write down the problem 2) Think real hard 3) Write down the answer Murray Gel-mann in the NY Times From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 12:05:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA17881 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:05:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [199.184.181.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17852 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:05:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from right.PCS (right.pcs. [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA20714; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:49:14 -0600 (CST) Received: (jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id QAA19035; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:39:44 GMT Message-ID: <19970326103943.36190@right.PCS> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:39:43 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Warner Losh Cc: Andrew Gierth , brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> <5h2c01$4i2@reader.seed.net.tw> <5h6e83$1mk@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <5h8905$lj1@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <87g1xkqe8d.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> <5h9m3l$1ih@gurney.zeta.org.au> <199703261154.LAA11351@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Warner Losh on Mar 03, 1997 at 08:23:27AM -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mar 03, 1997 at 08:23:27AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <877miussen.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> Andrew Gierth writes: > : >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Somers writes: > : Brian> I'll co-ordinate with > : Brian> Jordan (the maintainer of the emacs port) a patch to change > : Brian> the default help key binding to ^x^h (now that's gonna cause > : Brian> some "controversial" arguments!) - assuming he agrees. > > That's a *BAD* Idea. *DO*NOT*CHANGE*EMACS*DEFAULTS*. Emacs may be I agree. I have a whole gaggle of real vt420s and vt220s around here (they are what we use on the sales floors) and when you press the " Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA20587 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20574 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA26922 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:26:28 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA00984; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:16:10 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199703262016.VAA00984@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Symbios 53C876 (differential) and 20 GB DLT tape drive To: nadav@cs.technion.ac.il (Nadav Eiron) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:16:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: ljo@mcs.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Nadav Eiron" at Mar 26, 97 10:43:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Nadav Eiron wrote... > On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Lars Jonas Olsson wrote: > > > I'm thinking of buying a DLT subsystem from CSC. Its a 10/20 GB DLT > > drive in external enclosure, cable, terminator, and controller for > > $1495. > > > > The controller is based on Symbios 53C876. Is this likely to work > > with FreeBSD? Is the programming any different or is it only > > electrically different (differential vs single ended)? > > > > What about 10/20 GB DLT drives, can modenr 20/40 GB drives read the > > older tapes? Any other recommended drives? I already have a 2/4 GB DAT > > drive and am looking for something bigger and more reliable. > > AFAIK (and you can probably check quentum's or DEC's web site for details) You need to check with Quantum (www.quantum.com) these days. > all DLT drives can read from and write to all lower-capacity DLT tapes. > The only model I'm not sure about is the 35GB/70GB. I guess it probably > reads/writes 10 and 20 GB tapes, but it's worth checking if it's important > to you. The 10/20Gb (TZ87 in DEC-speak) will also read the lower density tapes. Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 12:59:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA24612 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24588; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA27261; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:15:45 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:15:44 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: alex huppenthal cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE - what/where? In-Reply-To: <3338CF9B.6BF7@comsys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, alex huppenthal wrote: > Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > > With the number of server I maintain it does mean that I hit your server a > > > bit more than I'd care to. Not to mention it takes longer. 8-( > > > > Get a 200 MB hard disk configured as an anonymous ftp server and run a > > portable mirror. 200MB will give you the distrib and your favourite > >packages. > > how do you do that, sounds like what I should be doing too! Get a small HD (200-500MB) and pop it in a PC and install FreeBSD on it. If you have a CD, use that, even if it is an old version - make your life easy - alternatively use whatever means you have. Make sure you have a partition with > 100MB space. Get the package or port for wget: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports-current/net/wget Build and install wget on this machine. Set up anonymous ftp (see man ftpd) with the home directory of user ftp in the partition with lots of space (e.g. /usr/home/ftp) cd ~ftp (Substitute your local mirror site, of course) wget -X /pub/FreeBSD/2.1.7.1-RELEASE/des -m -r -nH \ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.7.1-RELEASE wget -m -r -nH \ ftp://ftp.internat.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.7.1-RELEASE/des (on a modem 4-6 hours pass - set it up before you go to bed) You now have a bootable FreeBSD hard disk with an anonymous ftp site which has a mirror of the important parts of 2.1.7.1-RELEASE If you are inside the USA, you can skip the -X ...des bit. So, whenever you want to do an install, take the hard disk with you, plug it into a nearby machine and specify an ftp server by URL in the setup. Mirroring specific packages is left as an exercise to the reader. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 13:02:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA24989 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:02:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24978 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA27278; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:18:31 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:18:30 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to add extra shutdown code? In-Reply-To: <19970326091616.OD34811@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > Might be a nice addition to the system to have an rc.halt which is > > processed by halt and reboot if it exists, though. > > We have been threatening with the rc.shutdown addition for quite some > time now, and last time it has been discussed, nearly reached a > consensus for it. > > It will happen some day. Oh, good. While we are on the subject of rc.*, is there any rational reason for not renaming netstart as rc.net? Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 13:17:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26529 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA26518 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28602; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:03:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262103.OAA28602@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: sommerfeld@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us (Bill Sommerfeld) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:03:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: jonathan@dsg.stanford.edu, terry@lambert.org, perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703261426.OAA10034@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us> from "Bill Sommerfeld" at Mar 26, 97 09:26:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I believe I understand what Terry's suggesting. > > He wants to be able to be able to have a new filesystem type appear by > simply mounting (or symlinking, or copying) the implementation of a > new filesystem type into /sbin/fs/foo, and he believes that the name > of the filesystem type should be defined purely by the name used in > the /sbin/fs directory, and not by anything inherent in the binaries > found inside /sbin/fs/foo/. Yes. > so that, as an extreme case, one could do > mv /sbin/fs/{nfs,losefs} > and > sed 's/nfs/losefs/' /etc/fstab.NEW && mv /etc/fstab{.NEW,} > > and reboot, and everything will keep working.. Or, a more extreme case: cp -R xxxfs /sbin/fs newfs -T xxx /dev/rfd0a mount /dev/fd0a /mnt and not even reboot, since one of the binaries that gets moved might be named "lkm"... a kernel module implementing the FS type, which is demand loaded by the kernel as a result of the typed mount request (all mount requests are typed because the generic "mount" which invokes them calls the generic "fstyp", which calls each available FS's "fstyp" to identify the FS and make the typed mount request). I'd actually *prefer* that the per FS kernel code modules be implemented in the same component as the user space FS support commands, when you get down to it. Here are some other scenarios; each assumes additional work on kernel modularity and component-based implementation of FS modules (but the same ideas can be spread to non-FS module types as well): Case 1: Consider the agregator (generic) "mount", whose purpose is to agregate all of the FS-specific "mount" commands into itself. # ls -F /sbin/mount /sbin/mount@ # ls -L /sbin/mount /fs/mount So the mount command in /sbin is a link to the file /fs/mount. By default, all the commands in /fs are specific to a single FS type; for example, FFS. So in the "only / mounted" case, /fs/mount is the FFS mount command. Now we want to load other FS type capabilities into the system. To do this, we mount over /fs. We will ignore the details of loopback and overlay mounting to "move" the contents of "/fs" to allow them to be accessable without duplicating them. We simply note that it is possible to do this. The mounted-over "/fs" now contains: /fs/mount <- an agregator (generic) mount /fs/ffs/mount <- FFS specific mount, the former /fs/mount /fs/*/mount <- other FS specific mounts for FS types that are also supported not that /fs is mounted over The mount requests for FFS still go to /sbin/mount (/fs/mount). It's not really important whether the "/fs" is "/fs" or an "fs" subdirectory of /sbin (or wherever). What's important is that the "sub-directory of fs" implementation allows file systems to be treated as seperate components. Case 2: Consider that the kernel can be an ELF or other section-level attributable binary file format. Posit that the final stage boot loader has been modified to load some section tags from the image and not others. The act of loading a section with a "module" tag invokes the module registration mechanism. Now there is no difference between an FS LKM and an FS module, other than the ELF file of which the section is a member. To build a kernel which will load and run on EXT2FS formatted devices, we use a section archiver to remove the FFS module section and insert an EXT2FS module section in its place. We do not relink the kernel. We could insert both the FFS and EXT2FS modules simultaneously, if we didn't care about burning the space on the boot media or in the VM image. Since the FFS is not needed for boot, however, we can provide FFS support later using an overlay mount (as in Case 1). We now have a minimal kernel localized to the root FS type. And we have done it without the USL/SVR4 "hack" of having a "bootfs" FS type. Case 3: Because we have segment level tagging for unloaded-by-boot segments in our kernel image, we can treat any unloaded segment as an FS in it's own right, as long as the kernel can still access the kernel image contents (we probably want this anyway to support kernel paging, and it's not a lot of work to do). Now we may treat the kernel image as an FS in its own right; an MFS with the kernel image as backing store, if nothing else. We may mount a section as /fs. This section is one of the sections in the FS module which we added for the root FS support. Just as with devfs, we now have an FS name space entry, only instead of being for "/dev", it's for "/fs" at boot time, and is later mounted on "/fs/ffs" (or whichever FS type the root FS is). Alternately, the kernel would also contain the agregators -- a "/fs" FS whose purpose is to allow the mounting of other inferior per-FS directories and provide agregators for all later FS modules. Since the images (other than root, which contains the kernel) are swappable, they don't actually take up VM, so this is not as much of a memory hog as it might seem. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 13:27:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27653 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:27:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from yoda.fdt.net (root@yoda.fdt.net [205.229.48.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27641 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:27:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from Kryten.nina.org (port-51.ts1.gnv.fdt.net [205.229.51.51]) by yoda.fdt.net with SMTP id QAA19304; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:27:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:26:37 -0500 (EST) From: Frank Seltzer X-Sender: frankd@Kryten.nina.org To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703260351.TAA16687@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Well, I guess you never heard of a controlled discussion forum > before . I guess it most be a toooo simple idea. You see there are > classes of projects in which there is a strong desire to provide > a control forum . For instance, the current Bt848 video capture > project in the multimedia mailing is just a *simple* example. > For those kinds of project oriented processes it is desired to > have a structured / controlled environment. And I guess you never read the messages earlier in this discussion or the subject header regarding a better interface and search mechanism for the mailing list archive, not about turning the lists into a moderated discussion group. > If we can provide adequate presentation from enough controlled environments > then maybe we got a chance at controlling the wild growth in the > mailing list. I, for one, like the open, freeform style of the lists as they are now. This opens access to the lists up to anyone interested. I think it also speeds up access to information and responses to questions. > For the record , I do like Terry. In this case , I do think that he > can come up with a clever solution to the problem and not just sit on the > problem. > > Terry has made a valid point that you have not addressed. I think that > > your personal feelings toward Terry are clouding your thoughts. > > > How can you say that he has a valid point ? Lets just assume that > someone comes up with a different protocol to distribute the information? > > Remember we are trying to architect the discussion forums. No, you are. The gist of the discussion has concerned an improved interface and search mechanism. > > See Ya, > Amancio Frank -- Only in America can a homeless veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a draft dodger sleeps in the White House - anonymous From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 13:27:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27674 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:27:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA27661 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28636; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:13:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262113.OAA28636@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: cjs@portal.ca (Curt Sampson) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:13:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: sommerfeld@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us, jonathan@dsg.stanford.edu, terry@lambert.org, perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Curt Sampson" at Mar 26, 97 11:02:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > ...and he believes that the name > > of the filesystem type should be defined purely by the name used in > > the /sbin/fs directory, and not by anything inherent in the binaries > > found inside /sbin/fs/foo/. > > In other words, one wants /sbin/nfs/mount, and /sbin/nfs/nfsmount > is wrong because the word `nfs' appears in the files under /sbin/nfs? > > I can't see what advantage this offers besides aesthetic. Certainly > the code doesn't care whether or not there's an _ or a / between > the two %s strings in the printf format. It doesn't make a lot of difference, unless you decide to replace the agregation (generic) "mount" command with an FS specific "mount" command at boot time. If you do that, then it's possible that the names won't match like you expect them to, and you won't find "/sbin/nfsmount" when you are looking for "/sbin/mount". > It does seem to me to be a disadvantage in that if the file is ever > encountered outside of the tree (say, you restore a single file > from backup) it's very easy to get confused as to which mount > program it is. Well, I can't speak for a restore of a partial directory tree into a place other than the one written on the tape label... 8-). But the ability to replace the "generic" (agregating) commands with an FS specific command at varios stages of the boot is valuable to replacing existing kernels on non-BS systems with your BSD kernel, and having things "just work". It's an important factor if you ever want to pursue the "competitive upgrade" market with BSD kernels replacing the native kernels for the OS installed on the machine. This is the same issue as a device file system, since it allows you to replace the system device nodes with your own without having to destroy/disable the native devices, and without worrying about device major number differences/conflicts. A devfs also has the side effect of allowing you to NFS mount root from a system that doesn't understand BSD device nodes at all, either because of numbers of bits (like OSF on an Alpha) or because device nodes simply are not supported on the host system's NFS server (NetWare, VMS, etc.). Similar wins can be achieved in the FS module area using similar techniques (see previous posting for some "out there" examples). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 13:33:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28290 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:33:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA28285 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28669; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:18:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262118.OAA28669@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:18:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: from "Bob Bishop" at Mar 26, 97 10:55:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The ASCII DEL (0x7f) is an artifact of terminal devices which sent > >^H for cursor left, ^J for cursor down, ^K for cursor up, and ^L for > >cursor right. > > All 1's as DEL is an artefact of paper tape since the days of 5-hole. See > ITU/T Alphabet no. 2, aka ITA or Baudot code. Predates electronic digital > computers somewhat. Yes, of course. Having a key for it on display terminals is what I meant, not it's origin or the reason all bits are lit. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 13:35:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28598 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:35:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from yoda.fdt.net (root@yoda.fdt.net [205.229.48.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28590 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:35:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from Kryten.nina.org (port-51.ts1.gnv.fdt.net [205.229.51.51]) by yoda.fdt.net with SMTP id QAA19826; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:34:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:34:21 -0500 (EST) From: Frank Seltzer X-Sender: frankd@Kryten.nina.org To: Terry Lambert cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-Reply-To: <199703260436.VAA27000@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > Frank: > > Amancio is a good guy (or I wouldn't give out his multimedia list > and email address so much 8-)); I think we had a little confusion > in semantics (what he posted _looke_ "blunt") due to him not being > a native English speaker... it's hard to tell from his writing > because he generally expresses himself better than most natives > in his writing. I hope that my response was not taken as an attack as this was not intended. If it was, my sincere apologies, Amancio. > > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > Frank -- Only in America can a homeless veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a draft dodger sleeps in the White House - anonymous From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 13:42:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29580 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:42:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA29569 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:42:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28716; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:28:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262128.OAA28716@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:28:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: brian@shift.lan.awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Warner Losh" at Mar 26, 97 09:27:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : The idea is to stop the default from being "you've always got to > : hack this stuff on a unix box". Let's get it right. > > OK. Make the funny looking key generate 0x7f and the Delete key > generate 0x08. That's the only right thing to do. Others will > disagree, that's what makes it a religious argument. My "funny looking key" still has the ASCII standard defined word "Backspace" on it. I think what Brian wants to do is change the default erase character in FreeBSD to not need a root (and every console user) .profile or an /etc/gettytab hack to make it work by default. That way it works for root by default without the hack, and the Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01108 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:55:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01101 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA01047 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:55:44 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA11578; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:45:01 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970326224501.HS35191@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:45:01 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <5h2c01$4i2@reader.seed.net.tw> <5h6e83$1mk@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <5h8905$lj1@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> <87g1xkqe8d.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> <5h9m3l$1ih@gurney.zeta.org.au> <199703261154.LAA11351@shift.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703261154.LAA11351@shift.lan.awfulhak.org>; from Brian Somers on Mar 26, 1997 11:54:25 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Somers wrote: > Assuming that nobody has any serious objections to me doing > this, I'll make the mods to FreeBSD-current (3.0). Brian, we've been at this discussion before, and came to the conclusion the only way to keep the people halfways happy, as opposed to totally confusing a good part of them, is to keep it as it is now. This was quite some two or three years ago... The only thing i see that could/might be changed since it doesn't affect anybody badly is that syscons (and pcvt) might pre-allocate the VERASE character with the current binding of the <-- key, instead of putting the ttydefaults VERASE character there. This should work around the problem that the default rubout assignment doesn't delete the last input character as many people would expect it, but still would get all those people happy who prefer this key being bound to ^?. Unless anybody has strong objections against this change, feel free to do it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 13:59:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01445 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:59:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01437 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA01752 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.91]) by Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA19763; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:54:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199703262154.NAA19763@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> X-Authentication-Warning: Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU: Host Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.91] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: cjs@portal.ca (Curt Sampson), sommerfeld@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us, perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:13:28 MST." <199703262113.OAA28636@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:54:12 -0800 From: Jonathan Stone Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >It doesn't make a lot of difference, unless you decide to replace the >agregation (generic) "mount" command with an FS specific "mount" command >at boot time. I honestly still dont see why I'd ever want to do such a thing.... >But the ability to replace the "generic" (agregating) commands with >an FS specific command at varios stages of the boot is valuable to >replacing existing kernels on non-BS systems with your BSD kernel, >and having things "just work". It's an important factor if you >ever want to pursue the "competitive upgrade" market with BSD kernels >replacing the native kernels for the OS installed on the machine. For the systems I contemplate replacing, I can drop in a NetBSD kernel with a linked-in kernel module which implements the replaced OS's native filesystem. NetBSD already has an emul system that lets it run the native OS's ``agregator'' [sic] and FS-specific mount utility. How much of your ``we have'', ``we can'', and ``posit'' is actually real code, and how much is viewgraph engineering? It sounds rather complicated. It seems a fair question to ask what the overhead is to make all this work. It smells to me like you're really foisting off so much work onto the bootblocks that deal with this `kernel as an FS' model, that we might as well start calling the *bootblocks* the kernel, and the rest of your ``kernel'' is just a library of OS modules. I think that is going to set off many peoples' bogosity meters for the whole idea. Would you mind taking my address off any further replies, please? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:28:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA04534 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA04522 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA28870; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:13:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262213.PAA28870@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:13:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: imp@village.org, andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19970326103943.36190@right.PCS> from "Jonathan Lemon" at Mar 26, 97 10:39:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I agree. I have a whole gaggle of real vt420s and vt220s around here > (they are what we use on the sales floors) and when you press the " key on these things, you will get a "^?" character. > > This happens to be hardcoded into lots of our stupid Oracle Forms too. > > So "^H" does _NOT_ do the right thing here, ASCII charts, and Terry's rants > nonwithstanding. Changing the defaults will just break everything again. This is an idiotic premise. ***Here are the details on *why* it's idiotic: You have VT420's and VT220's? Then your /etc/ttys line for the port on which the device lives should look like: ttyd0 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt220 on insecure ttyd1 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt420 on insecure ttyd2 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt420 on insecure ttyd3 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt320 on insecure ... Then the tset will set the user's erase correctly; from the tset man page: Once the termcap entry is retrieved, the window size, backspace, inter- rupt and line kill characters (among many other things) are set and the terminal and tab initialization strings are sent to the standard error output. Finally, if the erase, interrupt and line kill characters have changed, or are not set to their default values, their values are dis- played to the standard error output. In order, tset will (according to /usr/src/usr.bin/tset/set.c): 1) Get the "kb" capability 2) If there is no "kb" entry in the termcap, or the "kb" entry is not a single character, it will get the "bc" capability. 3) If the "kb" entry is a single character, or, barring that, the "bc" entry is a single character, then the backspace character is set to the "kb" or "bc" entry, respectively. 4) If the "kb" and "kc" entry are both either not present or consist of more than one character (only one character entries may be used for "erase"), then if the "bs" capability is present the backspace character is defined as control-H, otherwise it is defined as 0 (not set). 5) If the backspace character is non-zero and the "os" capability is not present, then the erase character is set to the backspace character. 6) If the backspace character is defined as 0 (not set) OR the "os" capability is present, then the erase characters is set to the manifest value "CERASE" (0177 in ). ***On termcap entries: Note that pc3 (386BSD) and all the pcvt entries have the correct "kb=\177" that would make them work. Also note that cons25 has the correct "kb=^H", which would make it work. The VTxxx termcaps, other than the 100, which has a backspace key, all seem to be incorrectly derived from the 100 without unsetting "bs" or with setting "os". ***Conclusion: It seems that all that is troubling you is that your termcap is not set up correctly and/or you are not using tset on login like you are supposed to. PS: if having correct settings bothers your Oracle forms, I'd look to Oracle's possibly wanting "kb" or "kD". Type "man 5 termcap" for additional details. If your termcap is correct and it's not obeying it, use pcvt, or change your cons25 keymap in an /etc/rc.* and specify a modified termcap entry for the cons25 to make Orcale happy. Then contact Oracle support and get them to fix their product (the suggested workaround will continue to function after you obtain corrected product). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:29:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA04661 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA04653 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA28880; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:14:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262214.PAA28880@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:14:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: imp@village.org, andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <14355.859396281@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 26, 97 09:11:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I find a hard time even believing that this issue is being debated Yet > Again when we have so many more important things to deal with right > now. This entire delete vs backspace discussion is a monsterous waste > of time and energy and I certainly have no intention of changing a > single thing as a result of it, so I have to wonder what the whole > point of this debate even is. The default erase character for the console should be "^H" to match the default console behaviour. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:33:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA05016 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05006 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:33:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA27633; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:48:40 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:48:39 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970326124004.00b4c370@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, dennis wrote: > You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with > the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? Yes, I have. To upgrade to 2.2.1, I'll be fetching bin/*, unpacking, rm -rf etc dev, repack, then untar with --unlink and -p. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:33:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA05032 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:33:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05017 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA28898; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:18:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262218.PAA28898@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:18:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703261144.GAA29114@spooky.rwwa.com> from "Robert Withrow" at Mar 26, 97 06:44:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > :- gdb now stops the program with the message "Process killed due to text > :- file modification", and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a > :- diff between an idle copy and the "modified" executable is nil. > > I recall that SVR4 had this bug (shared libs getting touched during > execution of a program) for quite a while... Did we inherit it from > the same place they did? No. SVR4 would actually *WRITE* dirty pages to the library under some circumstances. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:36:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA05304 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05250 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA00821; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:38:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970326173451.00b61420@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:34:54 -0500 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" From: dennis Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:48 AM 3/27/97 +1100, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > >On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, dennis wrote: > >> You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with >> the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? > >Yes, I have. To upgrade to 2.2.1, I'll be fetching bin/*, unpacking, rm >-rf etc dev, repack, then untar with --unlink and -p. Are the only changes in bin? What about the source to the kernel modules? dont you need ssys also? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:40:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA05671 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05546; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA28916; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:22:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262222.PAA28916@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: MSWord docs... To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:22:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, johnp@lodgenet.com, se@freebsd.org, spaz@u.washington.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9703261920.AA11888@gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com> from "Marty Leisner" at Mar 26, 97 11:20:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there anything which explains the format for a word document? Nothing public. You can obtain documentation under NDA from Microsoft, provided you agree not to implement anything useful with the information (like a word processor). > Can word6 be viewed on dos? (is there a dos reader for word6 documents?) WORDVU6.EXE? Search Altavista for "+binary+windowrd+file+format". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:45:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06208 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06198 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:45:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA27707; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:01:40 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:01:39 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970326173451.00b61420@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, dennis wrote: > At 09:48 AM 3/27/97 +1100, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > >On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, dennis wrote: > > > >> You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with > >> the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? > > > >Yes, I have. To upgrade to 2.2.1, I'll be fetching bin/*, unpacking, rm > >-rf etc dev, repack, then untar with --unlink and -p. > > Are the only changes in bin? What about the source to the kernel modules? > dont you need ssys also? Yes, you are right. The 2.2.1 README clearly states that there are kernel changes also, esp the 2940 code. The principle remains the same - /etc does not get clobbered. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:52:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06988 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:52:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA06976 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA28944; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:38:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262238.PAA28944@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: terry@lambert.org Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:38:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, cjs@portal.ca, sommerfeld@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us, perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703262154.NAA19763@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> from "Jonathan Stone" at Mar 26, 97 01:54:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Johnathan Stone's address removed by request. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to respond to his posting that accompanied the request, since he made it in a public forum. I do not let "parting shots" slide. > >It doesn't make a lot of difference, unless you decide to replace the > >agregation (generic) "mount" command with an FS specific "mount" command > >at boot time. > > I honestly still dont see why I'd ever want to do such a thing.... The point is to enable people who *do* "want to do such a thing"; if you don't, then your opinion on the matter is not requested, only your opinion on implementation details (assuming you are a competent coder). > For the systems I contemplate replacing, I can drop in a NetBSD kernel > with a linked-in kernel module which implements the replaced OS's > native filesystem. NetBSD already has an emul system that lets it run > the native OS's ``agregator'' [sic] and FS-specific mount utility. What are the benefits to running NetBSD instead of the native kernel, if all the NetBSD kernel does is replace the native kernel without any additional added value? What's the point, is it just so you can say "hey, I'm running NetBSD"? > How much of your ``we have'', ``we can'', and ``posit'' is actually > real code, and how much is viewgraph engineering? It sounds rather > complicated. It seems a fair question to ask what the overhead is to > make all this work. I have a working set of agregators. I don't yet have a segment attributed kernel, thought it should be possible to do something similar to the "/fs/..." with the existing BSD install FS, which is MFS based. If we want proof of concept, USL and Sun have had this for four years. > It smells to me like you're really foisting off so much work onto the > bootblocks that deal with this `kernel as an FS' model, that we might > as well start calling the *bootblocks* the kernel, and the rest of > your ``kernel'' is just a library of OS modules. I think that is going > to set off many peoples' bogosity meters for the whole idea. This is not true. The bootblocks are to get a minimal kernel in; the issue in question is that what constitutes a minimal kernel varies based on what devices are or aren't "boot critical" devices. This dovetails nicely into using VM86() in i386 to implement fallback drivers that can work on any hardware installed on the machine. For Mac's this means ROM calls, for PPC's, this means PPCBug or Open Firmware, for non-PPC Motorola systems, this means Bug calls, for Sun's this means monitor calls, etc.. You load the hardware specific drivers after you are up, including auxillary FS drivers. But this is not required to make the concepts useful in the first place. I also admit that the concepts are only useful in terms of blocking the fewest avenues of future expansion and exploration... which was, after all, the intent. > Would you mind taking my address off any further replies, please? Done. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:53:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07128 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:53:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07085; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:53:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA02746; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:21:58 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703262251.JAA02746@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: MSWord docs... In-Reply-To: <9703261920.AA11888@gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com> from Marty Leisner at "Mar 26, 97 11:20:57 am" To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:21:58 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, johnp@lodgenet.com, se@freebsd.org, spaz@u.washington.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marty Leisner stands accused of saying: > > John Prince stands accused of saying: > > > How does that help with word95 and the office 97 stuff.. > > > Most windows machines shipped today do not ship with word6.x. > > > > Word 7 is Word 6 with different icons, basically. The file format > > and structure are the same. > > Is there anything which explains the format for a word document? Presumably, Microsoft have some internal documentation. Presumably, if you were willing to sign a billion-year contract with Bill, you too could read this document. I suspect that if you were to try to do something useful with the contents of said document, you would probably be reamed by Bill's lawyers. > Can word6 be viewed on dos? (is there a dos reader for word6 documents?) Not directly, and no. You can convert to a format for which there is a viewer (eg. pdf), but you need word to do that in the first place. > marty -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 14:58:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07540 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA07535 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA05195; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:58:52 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:58:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: WORM question Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I dug through the archives as best I could, and couldn't answer this one... I've got a Phillips CDD 522 cd-writer sitting here I'm trying to run through it's paces. Now...normally I don't have a CDR on my PC so I had to recompile the kernel (RELENG_2_2-recent), MAKEDEV the worm device, reboot, see the device, OK, everything seems OK. In fact from dmesg: (ncr0:2:0): "IMS CDD522/10 1.05" type 4 removable SCSI 1 worm0(ncr0:2:0): Write-Once ...so we see it, it's there. I run the sample script to test burn a CD. In order... # scsi -f /dev/rworm0.ctl -c "0 0 0 0 0 0" >/dev/null 2>&1 # wormcontrol select PLASMON RF4100 # wormcontrol prepdisk double dummy # wormcontrol track data # rtprio 5 team -v 1m 5 < file.iso | dd of=/dev/rworm0 obs=20k dd: /dev/rworm0: Device not configured [...team errors...] Now...WHY WHY WHY do I make it this far before I get a "not configured" error? Any suggestions? I feel like I shoulda found this in the archives, but no joy. Thanks, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:00:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07813 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [199.184.181.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07795 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:00:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from right.PCS (right.pcs. [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01129; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:59:08 -0600 (CST) Received: (jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id XAA08319; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:01:07 GMT Message-ID: <19970326170106.52908@right.PCS> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:01:07 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Terry Lambert Cc: imp@village.org, andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H References: <19970326103943.36190@right.PCS> <199703262213.PAA28870@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199703262213.PAA28870@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mar 03, 1997 at 03:13:36PM -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mar 03, 1997 at 03:13:36PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I agree. I have a whole gaggle of real vt420s and vt220s around here > > (they are what we use on the sales floors) and when you press the " > key on these things, you will get a "^?" character. > > > > This happens to be hardcoded into lots of our stupid Oracle Forms too. > > > > So "^H" does _NOT_ do the right thing here, ASCII charts, and Terry's rants > > nonwithstanding. Changing the defaults will just break everything again. > > This is an idiotic premise. Why, thank you. I agree too that it _is_ idiotic. (The behavior, not the premise, that is) > You have VT420's and VT220's? Then your /etc/ttys line for the port > on which the device lives should look like: /etc/ttys? The devices are connected via a network. No serial ports here. [.. munch ..] > Then the tset will set the user's erase correctly; from the tset man > page: Huh. From the termserver, everything looks like a vt100. (Or whatever the hell default you picked). No way to differentiate vt420's, vt220's, DG210's, xterms, wyse50's or whatever. Yes, we do ask the user what terminal they use on login, thankyouverymuch. > In order, tset will (according to /usr/src/usr.bin/tset/set.c): [ explanation of how termcap entries work, munched ] This quite assumes that the application is actually using 'kb'. In most cases, this isn't true. The application is using '^h', or '^?', which has been hardcoded into the application. Take a look at netscape, for example. It ignores your stty erase or termcap setting. Same w/emacs. Same w/oracle. > It seems that all that is troubling you is that your termcap is not > set up correctly and/or you are not using tset on login like you > are supposed to. You would be wrong. I've lost too much time hacking termcap to want to even think about looking at it again, for this particular issue. > PS: if having correct settings bothers your Oracle forms, I'd look > to Oracle's possibly wanting "kb" or "kD". Type "man 5 termcap" > for additional details. Oracle and termcap? Bwahahahah..... Oracle don't use termcap. Oracle don't use terminfo. Oracle use _OWN_ term format. Oracle smart! NOT. > If your termcap is correct and it's not obeying it, use pcvt, or > change your cons25 keymap in an /etc/rc.* and specify a modified > termcap entry for the cons25 to make Orcale happy. Then contact What do you think we're doing now? > Oracle support and get them to fix their product (the suggested > workaround will continue to function after you obtain corrected > product). Try this, and you will get to listen to Oracle tell you that *you* are doing the wrong thing. Now, don't get me completely wrong, I can understand how having BS=0x7f may be the 'wrong' thing to do, from a purists' point of view. But trying to change application behavior (like emacs use of ^H, which is what got me into this thread) is fighting a losing battle. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:01:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07896 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA07885 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA25952; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:01:52 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:01:51 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WORM question In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ># wormcontrol select PLASMON RF4100 >Now...WHY WHY WHY do I make it this far before I get a "not configured" >error? Any suggestions? I feel like I shoulda found this in the >archives, but no joy. Answered my own question, I think...using this seemed to fix the problem: # wormcontrol select PHILIPS CDD2000 The error threw me. Thanks anyways... Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:17:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09490 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA09479 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:17:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA02239 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:17:49 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12345; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:00:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327000012.BA30185@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:00:12 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to add extra shutdown code? References: <19970326091616.OD34811@uriah.heep.sax.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel O'Callaghan on Mar 27, 1997 08:18:30 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > Oh, good. While we are on the subject of rc.*, is there any rational > reason for not renaming netstart as rc.net? Tradition. Rational enough? :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:19:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09758 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:19:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA09734 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA02289 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:19:31 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12383; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:09:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327000931.PW16236@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:09:31 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE References: <3.0.32.19970326124004.00b4c370@etinc.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970326124004.00b4c370@etinc.com>; from dennis on Mar 26, 1997 12:40:06 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As dennis wrote: > You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with > the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? I've made a source diff from the CVS repository between the 2.2R and 2.2.1R tags. I'll put it up for FTP on freefall (i think there's already a `joerg' directory in freefall's FTP area). I'm not sure whether somebody would be willing to roll a binary tarball. Below are the affected files, according to the diff i've got. Note that due to the changes in libc and libtermcap, it would in theory be necessary to include all statically compiled binaries as well. I wouldn't recommend this however. Disclaimer: no warranty about the applicability of the patch. (The boot floppy also needs to be updated.) /etc/ppp/ppp.conf.sample /kernel.GENERIC /stand/sysinstall /usr/bin/login /usr/bin/patch /usr/lib/libc.a /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 /usr/lib/libc_p.a /usr/lib/libtermcap.a /usr/lib/libtermcap.so.2.1 /usr/lib/libtermcap_p.a /usr/sbin/amd /usr/sbin/amq /usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb /usr/share/doc/handbook/* /usr/share/examples/mdoc/* /usr/share/man/man1/write.1.gz /usr/share/man/man4/termios.4.gz /usr/share/man/man7/mdoc.7.gz /usr/share/man/man7/mdoc.samples.7.gz /usr/share/man/man8/rpc.lockd.8.gz /usr/share/man/man8/rpc.statd.8.gz /usr/share/misc/magic /usr/src/etc/ppp/ppp.conf.sample /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/patch/getopt.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/patch/inp.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/patch/patch.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/patch/pch.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/patch/util.c /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/patch/util.h /usr/src/lib/libc/stdlib/malloc.c /usr/src/lib/libtermcap/tgoto.c /usr/src/release/ABOUT.TXT /usr/src/release/sysinstall/Makefile /usr/src/release/sysinstall/attr.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/dist.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/floppy.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/readme.hlp /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/register.hlp /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/relnotes.hlp /usr/src/release/sysinstall/help/shortcuts.hlp /usr/src/release/sysinstall/index.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/install.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/main.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/media.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/menus.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/package.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/register.c /usr/src/release/sysinstall/sysinstall.h /usr/src/release/sysinstall/variable_load.c /usr/src/share/doc/handbook/handbook.sgml /usr/src/share/doc/ja_JP.EUC/handbook/handbook.sgml /usr/src/share/examples/mdoc/example.1 /usr/src/share/examples/mdoc/example.3 /usr/src/share/examples/mdoc/example.4 /usr/src/share/man/man4/termios.4 /usr/src/share/man/man7/mdoc.7 /usr/src/share/man/man7/mdoc.samples.7 /usr/src/sys/conf/files /usr/src/sys/conf/newvers.sh /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.reg /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx_asm.1 /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx_asm.c /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx_asm.h /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/aic7xxx_reg.h /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/gram.y /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/scan.l /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/sequencer.h /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/symbol.c /usr/src/sys/dev/aic7xxx/symbol.h /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/LINT /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/files.i386 /usr/src/sys/i386/eisa/aic7770.c /usr/src/sys/i386/include/vmparam.h /usr/src/sys/i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c /usr/src/sys/miscfs/procfs/procfs_map.c /usr/src/sys/pci/aic7870.c /usr/src/sys/pci/if_fxp.c /usr/src/sys/pci/if_fxpreg.h /usr/src/sys/scsi/scsi_base.c /usr/src/sys/ufs/mfs/mfs_vfsops.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_extern.h /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_fault.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_glue.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_kern.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_map.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_map.h /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_meter.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_mmap.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_object.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_page.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.h /usr/src/sys/vm/vnode_pager.c /usr/src/usr.bin/file/Magdir/frame /usr/src/usr.bin/login/login.c /usr/src/usr.bin/write/write.1 /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/amd/nfs_start.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/amd/amq/amq.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/pwd_mkdb/pwd_mkdb.c /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.lockd/rpc.lockd.8 /usr/src/usr.sbin/rpc.statd/rpc.statd.8 -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:19:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09791 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA09756 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA02302 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:19:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12438; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:15:41 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327001541.SZ01429@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:15:41 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE References: <3.0.32.19970326124004.00b4c370@etinc.com> <19970327000931.PW16236@uriah.heep.sax.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary=OYutQetq1Ms0LUui X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <19970327000931.PW16236@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Mar 27, 1997 00:09:31 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --OYutQetq1Ms0LUui I wrote: > I've made a source diff from the CVS repository between the 2.2R and > 2.2.1R tags. I'll put it up for FTP on freefall (i think there's > already a `joerg' directory in freefall's FTP area). The file is in ftp://freefall.freebsd.org/pub/joerg/2.2R-2.2.1R.src.diff.gz It is 87746 bytes long, and has an MD5 checksum of MD5 (2.2R-2.2.1R.src.diff.gz) = 845318edefb8fa022b51c893587bd411 -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) --OYutQetq1Ms0LUui Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBMzmuG3W7bjh2o/exAQH6aQP/eRdL2Wu99lQ3vZhRGBr2BlRqyniqWsq4 KkF2+sr6GgCACOvdBDppNaoEKxoN+C3+/XiJrqnYepBB9HkKOONZCn7CxW0jYPUa 1bMLFNUjVRdTjo/znXkkv845UkGImhJvHHvX93GuKORXqUWLbvYpM9nAjZKDEEij vBkvHtCKE5o= =oRj0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OYutQetq1Ms0LUui-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:31:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11181 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA11173 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA29104; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:14:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703262314.QAA29104@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:14:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, imp@village.org, andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19970326170106.52908@right.PCS> from "Jonathan Lemon" at Mar 26, 97 05:01:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is an idiotic premise. > > Why, thank you. I agree too that it _is_ idiotic. > (The behavior, not the premise, that is) Sorry; I had a hard time choosing the word (aphasia) The word I wanted was "absurd", which doesn't have the connotations of me implying that I thought you were an idiot. It was not my intent to do that. > > Then the tset will set the user's erase correctly; from the tset man > > page: > > Huh. From the termserver, everything looks like a vt100. (Or whatever the > hell default you picked). No way to differentiate vt420's, vt220's, DG210's, > xterms, wyse50's or whatever. Yes, we do ask the user what terminal they > use on login, thankyouverymuch. That asking, coupled with "tset", should resolve your delete key as erase character settings. If you have problems with the user's not picking the right one, if they are all ANSI terminals, then they will respond to the ANSI "terminal identification sequence". There are a number of programs in the comp.unix.soruces that do automatic terminal identification using this sequence. > This quite assumes that the application is actually using 'kb'. In most > cases, this isn't true. The application is using '^h', or '^?', which > has been hardcoded into the application. Take a look at netscape, for > example. It ignores your stty erase or termcap setting. Same w/emacs. > Same w/oracle. Or that the application is using the POSIX tcgetattr(). Yes. This may be a bad assumption, as you pointed out below: > Oracle and termcap? Bwahahahah..... Oracle don't use termcap. Oracle > don't use terminfo. Oracle use _OWN_ term format. Oracle smart! NOT. In this case, you must make the hardware conform to whatever the vagries of the software are. It's the same problem with using a Televideo terminal with VMS. 8-(. > > If your termcap is correct and it's not obeying it, use pcvt, or > > change your cons25 keymap in an /etc/rc.* and specify a modified > > termcap entry for the cons25 to make Orcale happy. Then contact > > What do you think we're doing now? Well, this is the correct way to do it. But that doesn't make Oracle right. Actually, since all your terminals have "delete as backspace character", you should be able to use tset to get the terminals to work correctly. In point of fact, the problem you're having is that your Oracle is wanting a '\177' sent by the "backspace character" regardless of whether it's a reasonable thing to want. Hacking your keymap is the only fix -- but again, Oracle is not the be-all, end-all of correctly written software. Which means that you hacking away from the default is not a bad thing, it's an expected workaround. > > Oracle support and get them to fix their product (the suggested > > workaround will continue to function after you obtain corrected > > product). > > Try this, and you will get to listen to Oracle tell you that *you* are > doing the wrong thing. > > Now, don't get me completely wrong, I can understand how having BS=0x7f > may be the 'wrong' thing to do, from a purists' point of view. But trying > to change application behavior (like emacs use of ^H, which is what got > me into this thread) is fighting a losing battle. But the application should not dictate the OS's default behaviour, only the available non-default behaviours for which the OS can be configured. As I said previously, if you were to use PCVT, the default keymap will be backspace-as-delete instead of backspace-as-backspace. I can't really agree with this, but since it has "VT" in its name, it not wholly unreasonable for it to behave this way. 8-). In any case, the erase character should match the erase character in the termcap entry for the device; if you change this, you must change your termcap entry for the console as well so that it continues to match. A much more interesting question is how you are dealing with 25 lines when everything looks like s (24 line, hardcoded) VT100. 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:34:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11402 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:34:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (USR1-1.detnet.com [207.113.12.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11393 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03942; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:33:33 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199703262333.RAA03942@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:33:32 -0600 (CST) Cc: danny@panda.hilink.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970326173451.00b61420@etinc.com> from dennis at "Mar 26, 97 05:34:54 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dennis wrote: > At 09:48 AM 3/27/97 +1100, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > >On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, dennis wrote: > > > >> You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with > >> the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? > > > >Yes, I have. To upgrade to 2.2.1, I'll be fetching bin/*, unpacking, rm > >-rf etc dev, repack, then untar with --unlink and -p. > > > Are the only changes in bin? What about the source to the kernel modules? > dont you need ssys also? I belive the biggest changes were in the kernel (adaptec pci scsi changes). Any other changes were minor. (This correct unless someone went and started commiting behind my back...:)) Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:34:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11446 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from narcissus.ml.org (root@brosenga.Pitzer.edu [134.173.120.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11434 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by narcissus.ml.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01781; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:34:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:34:01 -0800 (PST) From: Snob Art Genre To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, dennis wrote: > > > At 09:48 AM 3/27/97 +1100, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > >On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, dennis wrote: > > > > > >> You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with > > >> the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? > > > > > >Yes, I have. To upgrade to 2.2.1, I'll be fetching bin/*, unpacking, rm > > >-rf etc dev, repack, then untar with --unlink and -p. > > > > Are the only changes in bin? What about the source to the kernel modules? > > dont you need ssys also? > > Yes, you are right. The 2.2.1 README clearly states that there are > kernel changes also, esp the 2940 code. > > The principle remains the same - /etc does not get clobbered. Why not? /etc is part of the bin dist. > Danny > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 15:59:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA13019 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:59:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost-hq.freegate.net ([205.178.36.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA13000 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:58:47 -0800 (PST) From: Josef Grosch Received: (qmail 2407 invoked by alias); 26 Mar 1997 23:59:25 -0000 Received: from h235.free-gate.com (HELO jgrosch.hq.freegate.net) (205.178.20.235) by h254.free-gate.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 1997 23:59:24 -0000 Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by jgrosch.hq.freegate.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id PAA04073; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:58:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703262358.PAA04073@jgrosch.hq.freegate.net> Subject: Re: MSWord docs... In-Reply-To: <199703262251.JAA02746@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Mar 27, 97 09:21:58 am" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:58:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, johnp@lodgenet.com, se@freebsd.org, spaz@u.washington.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: jgrosch@FreeGate.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Marty Leisner stands accused of saying: >> > John Prince stands accused of saying: >> > > How does that help with word95 and the office 97 stuff.. >> > > Most windows machines shipped today do not ship with word6.x. >> > >> > Word 7 is Word 6 with different icons, basically. The file format >> > and structure are the same. >> >> Is there anything which explains the format for a word document? > >Presumably, Microsoft have some internal documentation. Presumably, >if you were willing to sign a billion-year contract with Bill, you too >could read this document. I suspect that if you were to try to do >something useful with the contents of said document, you would probably >be reamed by Bill's lawyers. > >> Can word6 be viewed on dos? (is there a dos reader for word6 documents?) > >Not directly, and no. You can convert to a format for which there is a >viewer (eg. pdf), but you need word to do that in the first place. > >> marty Not to get off the subject, but there is a web page of a project in Germany that is attempting to reverse engineer the Word 6 and Word 7 document format. I seem to remember that the person who started the project is a graduate student in Berlin. I'll see if I can't find the web page. Josef "Gentlemen, start your search engines" Grosch -- Josef Grosch | Laugh while you can, monkey boy | FreeBSD 2.1.6 jgrosch@FreeGate.net | - John Warfin - | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 16:16:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA14283 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:16:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14266 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA07719; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:16:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703270016.QAA07719@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Frank Seltzer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:26:37 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:16:34 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Frank Seltzer : > And I guess you never read the messages earlier in this discussion or the > subject header regarding a better interface and search mechanism for the > mailing list archive, not about turning the lists into a moderated > discussion group. Dear Frank, I started the thread so it is a pretty safe assumption that I read the subject. See Ya, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 16:24:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15028 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15023 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:24:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA07817; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:23:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703270023.QAA07817@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Frank Seltzer cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cool Web page interface to mail + search engine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:34:21 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:23:27 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Frank Seltzer : > On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Frank: > > > > Amancio is a good guy (or I wouldn't give out his multimedia list > > and email address so much 8-)); I think we had a little confusion > > in semantics (what he posted _looke_ "blunt") due to him not being > > a native English speaker... it's hard to tell from his writing > > because he generally expresses himself better than most natives > > in his writing. > > I hope that my response was not taken as an attack as this was not > intended. If it was, my sincere apologies, Amancio. Trust me I didn't take it as a personal affront at all. I will be back on the subject of organizing mail in a little bit got one good project, the bt848 driver, and the sound driver stuff requires my immediate attention. Have fun guys, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 16:48:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA17492 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17484 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA28417; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:04:02 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:04:00 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Snob Art Genre cc: dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Snob Art Genre wrote: > On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > > > >Yes, I have. To upgrade to 2.2.1, I'll be fetching bin/*, unpacking, rm > > > >-rf etc dev, repack, then untar with --unlink and -p. > > > > > The principle remains the same - /etc does not get clobbered. > > Why not? /etc is part of the bin dist. because if you read my previous paragraph, it includes 'rm -rf etc' Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 16:49:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA17566 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:49:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from narcissus.ml.org (root@brosenga.Pitzer.edu [134.173.120.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17560 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by narcissus.ml.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA03171; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:49:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:49:03 -0800 (PST) From: Snob Art Genre To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Snob Art Genre wrote: > > > On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Yes, I have. To upgrade to 2.2.1, I'll be fetching bin/*, unpacking, rm > > > > >-rf etc dev, repack, then untar with --unlink and -p. > > > > > > > The principle remains the same - /etc does not get clobbered. > > > > Why not? /etc is part of the bin dist. > > because if you read my previous paragraph, it includes 'rm -rf etc' Oops. My apologies. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 17:02:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA18412 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18407 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:02:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA08616; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:01:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703270101.UAA08616@jekyll.piermont.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jekyll.piermont.com: [[UNIX: localhost]] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:38:00 MST." <199703262238.PAA28944@phaeton.artisoft.com> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:01:07 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > Johnathan Stone's address removed by request. > > That doesn't mean that I'm not going to respond to his posting that > accompanied the request, since he made it in a public forum. I do > not let "parting shots" slide. Believe me, you've made that clear. Feel free to have the last word. Perry From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 17:17:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA19389 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA19380 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:17:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA29342; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:03:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703270103.SAA29342@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: perry@piermont.com Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:03:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703270101.UAA08616@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Mar 26, 97 08:01:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert writes: > > Johnathan Stone's address removed by request. > > > > That doesn't mean that I'm not going to respond to his posting that > > accompanied the request, since he made it in a public forum. I do > > not let "parting shots" slide. > > Believe me, you've made that clear. > > Feel free to have the last word. There is a difference between: "being petty and needing the last word" and: "making a statement, then plugging your ears and humming so you don't have to hear a rebuttal and getting the last word in your own mind" ...which is what Johnathan did. If anything is more typical of being "petty and needing the last word" than making a statement greater than "I will no longer participate in this discussion" and saying "take me off the CC: list", I have no idea what it might be. If Johnathan had simply stated "I will no longer participate in this discussion" instead of taking the low road and "getting his digs in", then I would not have been forced to respond to digs, since they wouldn't have been there. Feel free to respond to this posting with a simple "I will no longer participate in this discussion"... it was Johnathan's statements in addition to his refusal to further participate that I rebutted, not his refusal. If you make no additional statements, unlike Johnathan, I certainly won't post a followup to your response. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 17:29:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20160 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20155 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:28:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA04400; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:58:25 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199703270128.LAA04400@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? In-Reply-To: from Andrew Stesin at "Mar 26, 97 01:28:28 pm" To: stesin@gu.net Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:58:24 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, smc@servtech.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew Stesin stands accused of saying: > On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > > > > This looks very much like a problem that has been reported many times > > before, where one or more pages from a process' text are written back > > to the file. The pages aren't actually changed, but the file's timestamp > > is obviously updated. > > Just curious, what will happen in case the program file affected > by this bug will occasionally reside on a R/O-mounted FS? I haven't tried this, or heard anyone that has. > If the kernel will eat this difference quietly, without > any strange side effects, crashes, messages or so -- I'd probably > wonder... Likewise. > Andrew Stesin -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 17:32:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20396 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from murrow.prognet.com (prognet.com [205.219.198.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA20367 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from peterh (two89.dev.prognet.com) by murrow.prognet.com with SMTP id AA01397 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:32:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970326173157.01bd1940@mail.prognet.com> X-Sender: peterh@mail.prognet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:31:57 -0800 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Peter Haight Subject: ENOBUFS on heavy udp sending Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When sending a bunch of udp packets (about 1600 a second) I start to get ENOBUFS on the sendto's near the end of a block of about 200 sends in a fairly tight loop. (There are also about 200 TCP connections established, but with no activity during this.) The kernel is 2.2-BETA and it has NMBCLUSTERS=20480 and MAXMEM=98304. One of the times after this happend I did a 'netstat -a' and there are about 200 alive UDP connections after I killed my program. They all look like this: Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Foreign udp 0 0 *.* *.* Any ideas about what is going on and how I can fix it? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 17:32:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20526 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20478; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA16926; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:33:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703270133.RAA16926@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark E Larson cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extended memory in 2.2.1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:39:06 EST." <3.0.32.19970326103905.00a742c0@agisgate.agis.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:33:45 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Howdy! > >Ok. I tried adding this line in the 2.2.1 kernel > >options "maxmem=1024*384" > >To reconize 384M of RAM. This worked under 2.1.5, but in 2.2.1 upon boot >up the kernel says "memory bounce rebooting in 15 secs" Please provide the EXACT kernel message. I can't help you without that. I see that people have already pointed out that the above should be: options "MAXMEM=393216" ...as the arithmetic may not work as intended. Be sure the kernel reports the proper amount of memory in the startup message. Also, it is not necessary to send messages like this to multiple mailing lists. hackers or questions would have been sufficient. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 17:35:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20784 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20772 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18066; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:33:37 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:03:45 MST." <199703270103.SAA29342@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:33:37 -0800 Message-ID: <18062.859426417@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think this whole thread misses a much more important and vital point: Is the substance of the discussion such that many thousands of people would also like to read it, or is it really nothing more than a couple of people sounding off in front of an audience, in dire need of a clue as to when it's time to shut up and get off the stage? For an increasing amount of traffic in -hackers lately (and I daresay port-i386), it's the latter scenario in full effect and I, for one, am getting increasingly tired of this kind of blather in my mailbox. If I wanted to listen to a bunch of boring people attempting to bore one another to death with a lot of excrutiating detail about their latest personal crusade into the realm of Trivial Minutae then I'd join the Anal Retentives Club and spend my weekends spotting trains or writing angry letters to various editors about all the spelling errors I found in their publications. Enough! This is not in the public interest, so take it to private email. [And I may not be the world's formost judge of what the "public interest" is, but I do know that when it gets to the bickering stage, you're far from it]. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 17:48:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA21988 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21972 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:48:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU (Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.91]) by Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA21224; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:46:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199703270146.RAA21224@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> X-Authentication-Warning: Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU: Host Cup.DSG.Stanford.EDU [171.64.79.91] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: cjs@portal.ca, sommerfeld@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us, perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:38:00 MST." <199703262238.PAA28944@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:46:09 -0800 From: Jonathan Stone Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The point is to enable people who *do* "want to do such a thing"; >if you don't, then your opinion on the matter is not requested, Then I think you should remove from the distribution, too. if two trivial, syntactic details -- using "_" vs /" as separators, and the endian-ness of the name components on either of the separator -- are such show-stoppers for your scheme, then I would be surprised if anyone here wants it. (I'm on port-i386, so I'll still see all this, eventually. I try and answer personal e-mail in real-time, and mailing-list traffic much later and erratically, which is why I asked you to remove my name; and why I'm now asking you to consider removing port-i386, too). >only your opinion on implementation details (assuming you are a >competent coder). You've had my opinion. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore it. I've already asked if we can let this slide. Can't we do that? You might also consider dropping the unwarranted personal shots about someone's competence, simply because they have the temerity to disagree with you. I don't anyone ever looks good doing that. --Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 18:15:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA23667 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:15:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from netrover.com (ottawa19.netrover.com [205.209.19.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23627 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brianc@localhost) by netrover.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA01608; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:13:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:13:00 -0500 From: brianc@netrover.com (Brian Campbell) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: non-passworded accounts X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-to: brianc@pobox.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a password so that it no longer does? I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method doesn't seem to work. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 18:33:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25014 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:33:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA25009 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:33:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id LAA22887; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:33:25 +0900 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:33:25 +0900 Message-Id: <199703270233.LAA22887@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I found the reason of a serious boot problem I reported yesterday. On some Pentium machines (as far as I know Panasonic AL-N1, and Rios Chandler), i586_copyout and i586_copyin does not work and they causes system hangup before starting sysinstall. This problem can be avoided by specifying "flags npx0 0x07" from UserConfig CLI mode. This is very serious problem because users of these machines can't see the menu screen of boot.flp. If it's in time, please add a note about this problem in INSTALL.TXT or HARDWARE.TXT. Thanks! -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 18:38:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25540 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25532 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA01235; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:32:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703270232.SAA01235@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert Cc: perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:31:59 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry - Your posts are no longer on-topic with port-i386. Please either get on topic or take it out of the headers. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 18:44:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26070 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from narcissus.ml.org (root@brosenga.Pitzer.edu [134.173.120.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26056 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:44:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by narcissus.ml.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03851; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:44:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:44:01 -0800 (PST) From: Snob Art Genre To: brianc@pobox.com cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Brian Campbell wrote: > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > password so that it no longer does? > > I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method > doesn't seem to work. "Remove empty passwd"? Are you deleting everything in the second field? Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 18:47:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26289 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:47:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA26283 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:47:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA29456; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:32:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703270232.TAA29456@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:32:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <18062.859426417@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 26, 97 05:33:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think this whole thread misses a much more important and vital > point: > > Is the substance of the discussion such that many thousands of > people would also like to read it, or is it really nothing more > than a couple of people sounding off in front of an audience, > in dire need of a clue as to when it's time to shut up and get > off the stage? Why is it that your "rule" requires that any useful discussion, the outcome of which might affect the status quo, and which becomes minorly derailed by a "spoiler" (one who is unclued or is intentionally derailing the discussion), be summarily discontined? It seems to me that people who want to maintain the status quo can easily abuse this "rule" to derail any dicussion which might lead to change, regardless of whether the change is good or bad. It seems to me that this is a stupid "rule", since it gives "spoilers" a huge amount of power over those of us who are trying to advance the art and science... and That Is Not The Way Things Should Be, given your stated research goals. It seems to me that "clued people" are far enough between that you would not want to actively discourage their participation, without some (unstated) motivation. How do you handle occasions where "spoilers" attempt to enforce the status quo by trying the issue in the court of public opinion? Do you univerally apply you rule, and drop any subject which generates "too much traffic"? Or do you publically defuse the "spoliers" statements, in defense, knowing that to not do so would be considered a signal of assent? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 18:51:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26490 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:51:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA26484 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id LAA23082; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:50:55 +0900 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:50:55 +0900 Message-Id: <199703270250.LAA23082@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: brianc@pobox.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:13:00 -0500". From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a >> password so that it no longer does? >> >> I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method >> doesn't seem to work. I have the same problem. I18N boot.flp can't exec root passwd from sysinstall because of terminal problem.... so I prompted to the users to execute "passwd root" as soon as you installed the system, but I have to write another way to set root password from sysinstall as soon as possible :-<.... Maybe this problem is related to last changes to /usr/bin/login after 2.2-RELEASE. Why /usr/bin/login is changed to this spec? Security considerations? -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 18:54:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26719 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from netrover.com (ottawa19.netrover.com [205.209.19.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26713 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:54:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brianc@localhost) by netrover.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA01668; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:50:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:50:56 -0500 From: brianc@netrover.com (Brian Campbell) To: ben@narcissus.ml.org (Snob Art Genre) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-to: brianc@pobox.com In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Mar 26, 1997 18:44:01 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Snob Art Genre writes: > On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Brian Campbell wrote: > > > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > > password so that it no longer does? > > > > I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method > > doesn't seem to work. > > "Remove empty passwd"? Are you deleting everything in the second field? Err, yeah. Remove existing encrypted password, or empty password field. That's what I meant to say. Did you try it? Did it work for you? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 18:56:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26889 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from narcissus.ml.org (root@brosenga.Pitzer.edu [134.173.120.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26880 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by narcissus.ml.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03923; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:56:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:56:24 -0800 (PST) From: Snob Art Genre To: brianc@pobox.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Brian Campbell wrote: > Snob Art Genre writes: > > On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Brian Campbell wrote: > > > > > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > > > password so that it no longer does? > > > > > > I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method > > > doesn't seem to work. > > > > "Remove empty passwd"? Are you deleting everything in the second field? > > Err, yeah. Remove existing encrypted password, or empty password field. > That's what I meant to say. Did you try it? Did it work for you? Yes, I tried it and it works. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work for you, too. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 19:03:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA27373 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:03:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (USR1-1.detnet.com [207.113.12.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27347 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA05104; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:02:53 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199703270302.VAA05104@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts To: brianc@pobox.com Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:02:52 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from Brian Campbell at "Mar 26, 97 09:13:00 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Campbell wrote: > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > password so that it no longer does? > > I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method > doesn't seem to work. You want to put a '*' in place of the password. Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 19:15:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28221 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28209 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:15:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id MAA23335; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:15:33 +0900 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:15:33 +0900 Message-Id: <199703270315.MAA23335@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:33:25 +0900". <199703270233.LAA22887@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199703270233.LAA22887@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp writes: >> I found the reason of a serious boot problem I reported yesterday. On >> some Pentium machines (as far as I know Panasonic AL-N1, and Rios >> Chandler), i586_copyout and i586_copyin does not work and they causes >> system hangup before starting sysinstall. >> >> This problem can be avoided by specifying "flags npx0 0x07" from >> UserConfig CLI mode. Now I got a report from a person that "AKIA T515XP" came to boot 2.2.1 when he set this flags. FYI. If you have any boot problem with 2.2.1 boot.flp, please test this option. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 19:26:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29054 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:26:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from narcissus.ml.org (root@brosenga.Pitzer.edu [134.173.120.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29049 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by narcissus.ml.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04275; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:25:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:25:57 -0800 (PST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Gary Clark II cc: brianc@pobox.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts In-Reply-To: <199703270302.VAA05104@main.gbdata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Gary Clark II wrote: > Brian Campbell wrote: > > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > > password so that it no longer does? > > > > I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method > > doesn't seem to work. > You want to put a '*' in place of the password. Isn't that how you lock an account so that it isn't accessible at all? Hmm, I just realized the original question is ambiguous. Brian, are you trying to make a account inaccessible (i.e. no valid password at all) or open (no password required at all)? > Gary > > -- > Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company > gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team > Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information > FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 19:31:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29387 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:31:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA29381 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:31:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA29687; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:15:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703270315.UAA29687@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: jonathan@DSG.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Stone) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:15:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, cjs@portal.ca, sommerfeld@orchard.east-arlington.ma.us, perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703270146.RAA21224@Pescadero.DSG.Stanford.EDU> from "Jonathan Stone" at Mar 26, 97 05:46:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > if two trivial, syntactic details -- using "_" vs > /" as separators, and the endian-ness of the name components on either > of the separator -- are such show-stoppers for your scheme, then I > would be surprised if anyone here wants it. Correction: 1) "/" is a path component seperator, not a syntactic seperator internal to a path component. 2) "Endianess" is a non-issue, given #1 above. The issues are: o Should the per-FS commands be placed in a per-FS directory so that they can be treated as a unit instead of a pattern matching a list of files o If they should be places in a per FS directory, isn't adding a type value to the per-FS command name: o unnecessarily redundant o restrictive on the ability to switch between the "generic" and "boot fs specific" commands without modifying startup stripts and other hard coded paths, both now and in the future I want a design which is not restrictive on how a given FS component is implemented, instantiated, or used. I prefer (but do not demand) a design which is not unnecessarily redundant. > >only your opinion on implementation details > > You've had my opinion. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore it. You have only offered opinions on the design details, but without apprehension (you continue to state that you do not see the reason for the design); until you apprehend them, your opinion on them isn't applicable. I would like to help your opinion to be applicable, if you choose to continue to offer it. > >(assuming you are a competent coder). > > You might also consider dropping the unwarranted personal shots about > someone's competence, simply because they have the temerity to > disagree with you. I don't anyone ever looks good doing that. This is not an aspersion on your competence. This is a statement that even if you do not choose to apprehend the design details so that you can offer applicable opinions on the design, I would still value your opinions on implementation details. > I've already asked if we can let this slide. Can't we do that? I understand that you can't see the purpose behind the design; if you will stop objecting to the act of designing (despite of whether or not you personnally feel it to be purposeful), I'll be happy to let this side-bar discussion drop. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 19:35:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29685 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from netrover.com (ottawa13.netrover.com [205.209.19.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29679 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brianc@localhost) by netrover.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00208; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:34:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:34:54 -0500 From: brianc@netrover.com (Brian Campbell) To: ben@narcissus.ml.org (Snob Art Genre) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts References: <199703270302.VAA05104@main.gbdata.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-to: brianc@pobox.com In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Mar 26, 1997 19:25:57 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Snob Art Genre writes: > On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Gary Clark II wrote: > > Brian Campbell wrote: > > > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > > > password so that it no longer does? > > > > > > I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method > > > doesn't seem to work. > > You want to put a '*' in place of the password. > > Isn't that how you lock an account so that it isn't accessible at all? > Hmm, I just realized the original question is ambiguous. Brian, are you > trying to make a account inaccessible (i.e. no valid password at all) or > open (no password required at all)? I'm trying to make an account open. I tried '*' just in case -- behaves the same as an empty passwd field. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 19:35:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29702 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:35:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA29686 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA29719; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:22:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703270322.UAA29719@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:22:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, perry@piermont.com, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703270232.SAA01235@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Mar 26, 97 06:31:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Your posts are no longer on-topic with port-i386. Please either get > on topic or take it out of the headers. Fine. I have heard from the spokespersons from the various camps. I am dropping the discussion. Clearly whoever crossposted it initially made a mistake which I do not choose to continue to compound. This is my last post on this topic. Silence is not assent. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 19:50:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00897 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00892 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA22080; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:50:36 -0800 (PST) To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:33:25 +0900." <199703270233.LAA22887@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:50:36 -0800 Message-ID: <22077.859434636@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If it's in time, please add a note about this problem in INSTALL.TXT > or HARDWARE.TXT. This was done (I also forgot to say Submitted-By: hosokawa on this one and my later attempt to do a cvs -f ... didn't work; It wouldn't do a "null commit" to get the attribution right). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 20:02:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01463 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from solutions.solon.com (root@solutions.solon.com [192.129.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01455 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:02:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from seebs@localhost) by solutions.solon.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA23399; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:02:39 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:02:39 -0600 (CST) From: Peter Seebach Message-Id: <199703270402.WAA23399@solutions.solon.com> To: port-i386@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to name fs specific programs Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Might I suggest that this make it into current-users@netbsd.org? I think the basic idea of making fs program naming different and all that has potential, and I'd like to discuss it and/or see it discussed, but I see little if any 386-specific discussion. -s From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 20:27:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02945 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:27:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02938 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA11897 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:27:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:27:20 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" Message-Id: <199703270427.XAA11897@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: still the xload problem... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk xload under 2.2-RELEASE is still broken: bash-2.00$ xload xload: can't open kvm files @Ù¿ï -- David Cross ACS Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 20:28:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03079 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03073 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.4/8.6.9) id XAA04344; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:27:57 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199703270427.XAA04344@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? In-Reply-To: <199703260321.NAA24228@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Mar 26, 97 01:51:06 pm" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:27:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: smc@servtech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Shawn Carey stands accused of saying: > > > > Now that we are running 2.2-RELEASE, this anomaly appears to be > > something more serious than I originally thought, as gdb now stops the > > program with the message "Process killed due to text file modification", > > and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a diff between an idle > > copy and the "modified" executable is nil. Furthermore, I have recently > > discovered that if I link the program with -static, the problem goes > > away. > > This looks very much like a problem that has been reported many times > before, where one or more pages from a process' text are written back > to the file. The pages aren't actually changed, but the file's timestamp > is obviously updated. > I have not seen the problem on the 2.2 series recently. However, I seldom use GDB... Is this a problem that pops up when using GDB (setting breakpoints, etc.)? If it is, then that will give me a direction to look in. I'll also look into reproducing the problem this weekend. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 20:51:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA04033 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04028 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id PAA09205; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:31:46 +1100 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:31:46 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199703270431.PAA09205@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I found the reason of a serious boot problem I reported yesterday. On >some Pentium machines (as far as I know Panasonic AL-N1, and Rios >Chandler), i586_copyout and i586_copyin does not work and they causes >system hangup before starting sysinstall. > >This problem can be avoided by specifying "flags npx0 0x07" from >UserConfig CLI mode. "flags npx0 0x07" also disables i586_bcopy and i586_bzero. Are those broken too? I don't see how i586_copyout or i586_copyin could be broken on any real Pentium machine. i586_bcopy and i586_bzero might not work for device memory, but extensive (:-) testing in 2.2ALPHA/BETA/GAMMA didn't show any problems. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 21:18:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA05163 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.82.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA05156 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:18:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id OAA24086; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:18:13 +0900 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:18:13 +0900 Message-Id: <199703270518.OAA24086@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: bde@zeta.org.au Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:31:46 +1100". <199703270431.PAA09205@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199703270431.PAA09205@godzilla.zeta.org.au> bde@zeta.org.au writes: >> "flags npx0 0x07" also disables i586_bcopy and i586_bzero. Are those >> broken too? Sorry, 0x07 is overkilling solution. I tested all combinations now. 0x00 Hangup 0x01 OK 0x02 Hangup 0x03 OK 0x04 Hangup 0x05 OK 0x06 Hangup 0x07 OK This result implys i586_bcopy is the source of this problem. Hmm... I'm not familiar with NPX instruction, but I think i586_bcopy or something depends on the NPX's initialization by BIOS. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 21:32:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA05899 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA05894 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:32:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA13085; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:32:36 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199703270532.AAA13085@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts To: brianc@pobox.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:32:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Campbell" at Mar 26, 97 10:34:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Brian Campbell had to walk into mine and say: > Snob Art Genre writes: > > On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Gary Clark II wrote: > > > Brian Campbell wrote: > > > > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > > > > password so that it no longer does? > > > > > > > > I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method > > > > doesn't seem to work. > > > You want to put a '*' in place of the password. > > > > Isn't that how you lock an account so that it isn't accessible at all? > > Hmm, I just realized the original question is ambiguous. Brian, are you > > trying to make a account inaccessible (i.e. no valid password at all) or > > open (no password required at all)? > > I'm trying to make an account open. I tried '*' just in case -- behaves > the same as an empty passwd field. > > The problem is that so far you haven't described what happens in either case. All you said in your original message was that it 'doesn't work.' I'd like to state for the record that there's little I hate more than when somebody comes to me complaining that something 'doesn't work' and then expects me to divine the nature of their problem and solve it without any further details. If you really expect anyone to help you with this, you're going to have to do more than say 'it doesn't work.' Explain how you arrived at the conclusion that it 'doesn't work' in as much detail as possible. It's not like we can see what you're doing from here, you know. That said, it should be noted that unless you specify otherwise, the system is installed without a password on the root account. I installed a couple of 2.2 GAMMA releases like this and never noticed any problem. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 21:53:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07018 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07012 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id QAA11880; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:45:49 +1100 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:45:49 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199703270545.QAA11880@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Sorry, 0x07 is overkilling solution. I tested all combinations now. > > 0x00 Hangup > 0x01 OK >... >This result implys i586_bcopy is the source of this problem. >Hmm... > >I'm not familiar with NPX instruction, but I think i586_bcopy or >something depends on the NPX's initialization by BIOS. FreeBSD initializes it before using it. Try defining bcopyw and bcopy as bcopyb in syscons, and using pcvt. bcopyw is currently defined as bcopy. Undef'ing it won't work, since bcopyw() went away. There are some bcopy's that should probably be bcopyw's or bcopyb's. pcvt uses bcopyb in just one place for accessing character sets. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 21:56:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07178 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07173 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA23929; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:56:40 -0800 (PST) To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:18:13 +0900." <199703270518.OAA24086@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:56:39 -0800 Message-ID: <23922.859442199@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In article <199703270431.PAA09205@godzilla.zeta.org.au> > bde@zeta.org.au writes: > > >> "flags npx0 0x07" also disables i586_bcopy and i586_bzero. Are those > >> broken too? > > Sorry, 0x07 is overkilling solution. I tested all combinations now. > > 0x00 Hangup > 0x01 OK > 0x02 Hangup > 0x03 OK > 0x04 Hangup > 0x05 OK > 0x06 Hangup > 0x07 OK > > This result implys i586_bcopy is the source of this problem. > Hmm... Well, I've already amended the documentation at your request once - do you want me to amend it again? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 21:59:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07252 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from netrover.com (ottawa14.netrover.com [205.209.19.23]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07241 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brianc@localhost) by netrover.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA00260; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:57:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:57:19 -0500 From: brianc@netrover.com (Brian Campbell) To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts References: <199703270532.AAA13085@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-to: brianc@pobox.com In-Reply-To: <199703270532.AAA13085@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu>; from Bill Paul on Mar 27, 1997 00:32:33 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Paul writes: > > > > Brian Campbell wrote: > > > > > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > > > > > password so that it no longer does? > > The problem is that so far you haven't described what happens in > either case. All you said in your original message was that it > 'doesn't work.' I'd like to state for the record that there's > little I hate more than when somebody comes to me complaining that > something 'doesn't work' and then expects me to divine the nature > of their problem and solve it without any further details. > > If you really expect anyone to help you with this, you're going to > have to do more than say 'it doesn't work.' Explain how you arrived > at the conclusion that it 'doesn't work' in as much detail as possible. > It's not like we can see what you're doing from here, you know. > > That said, it should be noted that unless you specify otherwise, the > system is installed without a password on the root account. I installed > a couple of 2.2 GAMMA releases like this and never noticed any problem. You forgot *RANT ON* and *RANT OFF* ;-) I'm not sure what more you want to know. Other than the ambiguity about trying to disable an account versus being able to login without a password (the latter is what I was trying to achieve), what more is there you need to know? I have a user. I have a password. I can login with that password. I don't want to have to type in a password. I run vipw and empty the passwd field. I try to login. It still prompts me for a password. The old password doesn't work. Simply hitting return doesn't work. No common magic words work. I apologize for not stating on the list that I have been able to "prevent login from prompting me for a password for my account" since 2.0, including 2.1.* and all the alphas, betas, gammas and releases of 2.2 with the exception of 2.2.1. Have you actually tried this under 2.2.1 (that at least was explicitly mentioned) or is this just a canned response? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 23:00:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA09095 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from aries.bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09089 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by aries.bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA20434 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:56:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:56:59 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Small Disk Xterminal Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have about 5 Hewlett Packard 486 DX66 Computers with 80 meg Hard drives. I want to set them up as xterminals to run programs off of a larger FreeBSD Server. I tried looking in the archives and found some discussion on this topic. But I was unable to discover how this was resolved. I want only bare minimum files on the X terminal, and I want to configure the rc files to start up only the X server and go right into an authentication from the XDM Server on the larger FreeBSD Machine. I assume I will use NFS to set up the Xwindows applications that I want to run. I want the users at the X terminals to be logging in to the FreeBSD machine becuase I don't want to have several accounts for my users. Will this require NIS? Or can the XDM some how handle this? Is there any problems with what I have proposed, has any one done this? Let me know what problems I am likely to encounter and what basic steps that I will need to do to get started. P.S. Any one ever get Xwindows working with an HP Ultra Video Card? Thanks. Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Technician I (509)-766-8873 Big Bend Community College Internet Instructor FreeBSD Book Project: http://vinyl.quickweb.com/~chrisc/book.html Disclaimer: Even Though it has My Name on it, Doesn't mean I said it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 26 23:37:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA10388 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from hamby1 (hamby1.lightside.net [207.67.176.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA10378 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by hamby1 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA01417; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:37:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:37:13 -0800 From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Message-Id: <199703270737.XAA01417@hamby1> To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, steve@visint.co.uk Subject: Re: more Mac vs BSD (fwd) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: WsIqrVk0N2T3DkVDC+zwBA== Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steve Roome writes: > You think this is bad, I was looking at some websites yesterday and found > a 'powered by a Mac' link, needless to say I followed it (whilst laughing) > to this: > > http://prod01.apple.com/productinfo/datasheets/ss/aiss.html > > which really has to be seen to be beleived, particularly the quote near > the top about Affordability. (... lowest-cost WWW server available today > .... etc.. ) > > I took up the offer of contacting the webmaster, but haven't got a reply > yet. Okay, realistically speaking, the majority of Web sites don't get all that many hits. For Joe Random Businessowner, who wants to "get on the Internet", honestly I think they'd be better off with a "one-click" solution that came with a bunch of bundled software for site design. Now, it's the rest of the Web sites, the ones that get serious volume, for which running MacOS is not just unrealistic, it's absurd. For the really serious sites, like ftp.cdrom.com, I think the biggest trick is simply getting enough network bandwidth, RAM, and hard disks (on separate controllers of course). If you have interactive Web pages, you'll want a fast CPU to handle the CGI's (or use a CGI alternative like NSAPI, ISAPI, or if you want to be adventurous, Java servlets!). If Windows NT (blecch!) can handle a site like microsoft.com, then most any flavor of UNIX will be able to handle the load, so you tailor your OS decision based on other factors (familiarity, availability of server software, security, general robustness, etc.). And of course most of us agree that FreeBSD is the best free OS out there for Internet servers. :) Oh, one more random comment. My Internet provider (a few hundred customers), used to run EVERYTHING from a Mac Quadra running A/UX, if you can believe that! Well, actually, the PPP itself was handled by a Livingston Portmaster, but the A/UX box handled USENET, mail, and Web serving. He eventually moved the mail server to a FreeBSD box, but the A/UX box is still there, running innd, and I hate to admit it, but his newsfeed is a damn sight better than what I can get through the news servers at school or work! This just proves that ANY flavor of UNIX (even a sad old SVR2, like A/UX), is a better server than MacOS on the same hardware. Finally, I remember seeing a similar Apple advertisement advocating MacOS, which showed how "complicated" it was to set up a Web server under UNIX, by showing the UNIX commands you would need to type, and the example they gave was clearly showing how to compile and install NCSA (or was it Apache?) running on A/UX! Cheers, Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:02:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA11703 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (oskar.nanoteq.co.za [163.195.220.170]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11696 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:02:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by oskar.nanoteq.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA02458; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:02:04 +0200 (SAT) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199703270802.KAA02458@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970326124004.00b4c370@etinc.com> from dennis at "Mar 26, 97 12:40:06 pm" To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:02:04 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ... > > > You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with > the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? Well .. if anyone is thinking about doing this, I have written a perl script for one of our productis for doing a Secure field upgrade, basically the script uses FreeBSD's fetch program with either a web URL or FTP URL to download a tar/tar.pgp file and automatically extract and applying an upgrade to the system. I have some more details on how this mechanism works if anyone is "thinking" about such a process. Bye Reinier From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:21:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12259 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:21:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA12254 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA06233; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:21:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16888; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:14:43 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327091443.JB41753@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:14:43 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: brianc@pobox.com, davidn@blaze.net.au (David Nugent), jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Campbell on Mar 26, 1997 21:13:00 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Campbell wrote: > After installing 2.2.1, can anyone change an account which has a > password so that it no longer does? > > I've had no luck. The obvious vipw and remove empty passwd method > doesn't seem to work. Ouch! David hasn't tested his new feature enough before merging it into 2.2! Not only that a passwordless account can no longer be used, while trying to debug this using gdb's attach feature, i've almost always been able to segfault it somewhere in badlogin(). Jordan, i'm afraid we need a KNOWNBUGS list... :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:26:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12494 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from becker2.u.washington.edu (spaz@becker2.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12489 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (spaz@localhost) by becker2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW96.12/8.8.4+UW97.03) with SMTP id AAA14228; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:26:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:26:35 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: Chris Coleman cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Small Disk Xterminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Chris; On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Chris Coleman wrote: > I have about 5 Hewlett Packard 486 DX66 Computers with 80 meg Hard drives. > I want to set them up as xterminals to run programs off of a larger > FreeBSD Server. I tried looking in the archives and found some discussion > on this topic. But I was unable to discover how this was resolved. works great. i am sitting at one. it is a 486/133 now, but it used to be a 386/33 with 6meg of ram! > I want only bare minimum files on the X terminal, and I want to configure > the rc files to start up only the X server and go right into an > authentication from the XDM Server on the larger FreeBSD Machine. u can do this, i might put the X11R6 stuff on the local drive ( but not the apps ) because it is faster. u can get the bindist and x11r6 on your 80meg drive. > I assume I will use NFS to set up the Xwindows applications that I want to > run. right right > > I want the users at the X terminals to be logging in to the FreeBSD > machine becuase I don't want to have several accounts for my users. Will > this require NIS? Or can the XDM some how handle this? dont want to have several accounts? meaning different accounts on different machines? it wont matter, dont create any accounts on the local machines, just toss up xterms from the file server. > Is there any problems with what I have proposed, has any one done this? well yes, there is a problem, your video cards! wtf are they? you are sol if u cant get them to pretend to be something else. and, given my experience with hp products, they are probably based on a trident, tseng, wd or cirrus chipset, but the rest of the implementation will be reverse-polish-sysV video weirdness, just like their operating system. i would suggest driving up to seattle and hitting any number of used computer stores and picking up used cards. unless the cards u have have some explicit mapping to some other known supported card. > Let me know what problems I am likely to encounter and what basic steps > that I will need to do to get started. > > P.S. Any one ever get Xwindows working with an HP Ultra Video Card? > > Thanks > > Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us) > Computer Support Technician I (509)-766-8873 > Big Bend Community College Internet Instructor > FreeBSD Book Project: http://vinyl.quickweb.com/~chrisc/book.html > Disclaimer: Even Though it has My Name on it, Doesn't mean I said it. > > ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:32:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12882 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net ([194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA12874 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:32:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0wAAbK-000IULC; Thu, 27 Mar 97 09:32 MET Received: by ernie.kts.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:11:35 +0100 (MET) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Feb-8) Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:11:35 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <19970326170106.52908@right.PCS> from "Jonathan Lemon" at Mar 26, 97 05:01:07 pm Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please create a list list-for-things-discussed-over-and-over-once-every-one-or-two-years@freebsd.org and continue this discussion there as now it looks like this discussion ends like all this types of discussions ended before .... hellmuth -- hellmuth michaelis hm@kts.org hamburg, europe From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:35:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA13023 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13017 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA10310; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:35:07 -0800 (PST) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brianc@pobox.com, davidn@blaze.net.au (David Nugent) Subject: Re: non-passworded accounts In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:14:43 +0100." <19970327091443.JB41753@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:35:07 -0800 Message-ID: <10306.859451707@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > David hasn't tested his new feature enough before merging it into 2.2! > > Not only that a passwordless account can no longer be used, while > trying to debug this using gdb's attach feature, i've almost always > been able to segfault it somewhere in badlogin(). > > Jordan, i'm afraid we need a KNOWNBUGS list... :-( OK, so now I'm waiting for someone to send me the first entry. David? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:38:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA13347 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13325 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:37:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA00373; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:52:43 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:52:42 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Reinier Bezuidenhout cc: dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <199703270802.KAA02458@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Reinier Bezuidenhout wrote: > > You guys ever think of doing a patch release (like a single tarball with > > the changes) for those of us that spent 2 days setting up 2.2R? > > Well .. if anyone is thinking about doing this, I have written a > perl script for one of our productis for doing a Secure field upgrade, > basically the script uses FreeBSD's fetch program with either a web > URL or FTP URL to download a tar/tar.pgp file and automatically > extract and applying an upgrade to the system. I have some more details > on how this mechanism works if anyone is "thinking" about such > a process. I've already spoken with Jordan and others about organising a binary patch package repository for use with pkg_add. I just need to put in the extra effort to track the needed changes to the appropriate releases and organise the packages to be built and distributed. Finding time is hard right now. Perhaps over the Easter break I'll look at it again. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:40:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA13862 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:40:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13846 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.lan.awfulhak.org [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15466; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:35:18 GMT Message-Id: <199703270835.IAA15466@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), imp@village.org, andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk, brian@utell.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backspace = ^H - ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH ! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:14:49 MST." <199703262214.PAA28880@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:35:18 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The default erase character for the console should be "^H" to match > the default console behaviour. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Wow, now I know why Jordan's so pissed off about this discussion.... My home machine's been down for a while and I've only read the stuff cc'd to me at work ! All I'm suggesting now is the above - erase = ^h by default and the stty is removed from /.profile (and whatever other . files have it). This will break very little existing hacks and will make things consistent (even X should work by default). Whether it's right or wrong, I don't care - I don't believe in religion. Any disagreements (please, nobody answer) ? -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:46:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA14703 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:46:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA14688 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA06398; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:46:48 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16949; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:44:56 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327094456.GL01749@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:44:56 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: chris@bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Subject: Re: Small Disk Xterminal References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Coleman on Mar 26, 1997 22:56:59 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris Coleman wrote: > I assume I will use NFS to set up the Xwindows applications that I want to > run. You probably want only a root/var filesystem and swap on the clients. Mount /usr read/only from the server. Watch out to fixup some of the default app-defaults and config files (like that of xdm) to use /var to write temporary data (session log, Xauth cookies etc.). The default setup unfortunately tries to write them to /usr/X11R6. > I want the users at the X terminals to be logging in to the FreeBSD > machine becuase I don't want to have several accounts for my users. Will > this require NIS? Or can the XDM some how handle this? You want them to authenticate at the server only? XDMCP is your friend. Simply start an Xserver as ``X -query ''. Of course, the server needs to run an xdm. If you don't have a local display on the server, comment out the local entry in /usr/X11R6/lib/xdm/Xservers (so it will only listen on the network). You want to have a loop around the server start, or start the Xserver from within /etc/ttys, so it comes up again after somebody hit Ctrl-Alt-BkSpc. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:49:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA15136 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.telecom.ksu.edu (smtp@gateway.telecom.ksu.edu [129.130.63.239]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15131 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sioux.telecom.ksu.edu(129.130.60.32) by pawnee.telecom.ksu.edu via smap (V1.3) id sma010968; Thu Mar 27 02:49:18 1997 Received: by cherokee. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA20268; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:47:51 -0600 From: joed@sioux (Joe Diehl) Message-Id: <199703270847.CAA20268@cherokee.> Subject: userlevel ppp in 2.2.1 make failed To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:47:49 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings, I just spent the last few hours upgrading my machine from 2.2-BETA to 2.2.1R... The upgrade went fairly smoothly, just waiting for my new kernel to finish before I call it quits for the night... While trying to recompile iijppp under 2.2.1-RELEASE, the make dies complaining of not knowing how to make uucplock.c (which doesn't exist in the iijppp source tree). Just to be sure I was dealing with a correct source tree, I rm -rfed the usr.sbin src tree and reinstalled it from scratch... The problem remained. Any thoughts on this problem? Please CC: any replies directly back to me, as I will be unable to receive list traffic until I can get iijppp recompiled. Thanks --- Joe Diehl KSU Dept. of Telecommunications From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:55:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA15360 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA15355 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id RAA28036; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:55:20 +0900 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:55:20 +0900 Message-Id: <199703270855.RAA28036@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: bde@zeta.org.au Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:45:49 +1100". <199703270545.QAA11880@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199703270545.QAA11880@godzilla.zeta.org.au> bde@zeta.org.au writes: >> Try defining bcopyw and bcopy as bcopyb in syscons, and using pcvt. >> bcopyw is currently defined as bcopy. Undef'ing it won't work, since >> bcopyw() went away. There are some bcopy's that should probably be >> bcopyw's or bcopyb's. pcvt uses bcopyb in just one place for accessing >> character sets. Use vt driver -> OK. #define bcopyw bcopyb, #define bcopy bcopyb in syscons.c -> OK. Both modifications are efficacious. 2.2.1 works fine on this machine even if the 'flags' of npx0 is zero. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 00:57:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA15478 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA15467 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:57:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id RAA28066; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:57:12 +0900 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:57:12 +0900 Message-Id: <199703270857.RAA28066@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: 2.2.1 Serious boot problem related to i586_copy* In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:56:39 -0800". <23922.859442199@time.cdrom.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <23922.859442199@time.cdrom.com> jkh@time.cdrom.com writes: >> Well, I've already amended the documentation at your request >> once - do you want me to amend it again? :-) Please amend it agaain :-). Sorry. Users of Rios Chandler also reported that 0x01 is enough. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 02:02:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA04126 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA04119 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id TAA29041; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:02:34 +0900 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:02:34 +0900 Message-Id: <199703271002.TAA29041@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If 2.2.1-RELEASE does not permit no-password account, I think sysinstall should display the warning message before exitting sysinstall without setting root password from sysinstall (except upgrade installation). hosokawa From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:46:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00705 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00668; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA05082 ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01589; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:13:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703271713.KAA01589@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: MSWord docs... To: rssh@cki.ipri.kiev.ua Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:13:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, johnp@lodgenet.com, se@freebsd.org, spaz@u.washington.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <333A6507.3FB7@cki.ipri.kiev.ua> from "Ruslan Shevchenko" at Mar 27, 97 03:16:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Nothing public. You can obtain documentation under NDA from > > Microsoft, provided you agree not to implement anything useful > > with the information (like a word processor). > > > > Hm, can I right to do a reingeneering of word file format, > created with my word ? You are only bound to not build a word processor if Microsoft tells you the file format. If you find out on your own, I think you are free to do what you want (you can't copyright a file format, only a document describing it or a program that implements it). Microsoft may have attempted to patent the file format; I doubt it, since GIF format is only in trouble because of the LZW technology patents. There may be similar patents, however, under Microsoft's belt, if they have patented their tiny modifications to LZW77 for their "compress/expand" technique, and if they use this technique on the data stored in the files. They may also have a patent on the encryption algorithm (a friend of mine, while employed at Word Perfect, actually cracked their encryption). The MS-Word format is actually documented in: The File Formats Handbook Gunter Born International Thompson Computer Press ISBN 0-442-01995-5 But WinWord format (which is what we are really discussing here) is not documented in the book, though some gross hints are given: o It's in three sections which are, in order, a header, text data, and formatting data o The header and format structure depend on the version of WinWord [1.0, 2.0, 6.0] o The total header size is 384 bytes o The text is stored as DOS ANSI o The first 36 bytes are: 00 2 Signature (0x9BA5=1.0, 0x9DA5=2.0, 0xD0CF=6.0) 02 2 version (major) 04 2 version (minor) 06 2 Language ID 08 2 Next page number 0A 1 Flags 0B 1 Encryption (1=Yes) 0C 6 Internal use (hah -- yeah, right) 12 1 Platform (0=Windows, 1=Mac) 13 1 Reserved 14 2 Character set (0 = ANSI) 16 2 Internal character set 18 4 absolute offset 1st character of text 1C 4 absolute offset end character of text + 1 20 4 Offset to end of file ... Other file pointers I'd guess that most of the files following the header are what are called "Internal files" or are "Index files", and are probably stored in BTREE format, the same as the .HLP (Help) files. I'm not really interested in hacking this out; I don't own a copy of Word to use to generate test data sets of known content, and that's probably prohibited in the license if I were to go buy a copy. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:46:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00762 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:46:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00726 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from net1.nw.com.au (root@Net1.nw.com.au [203.18.240.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA04942 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from rdx (anthrax.nw.com.au [203.33.253.190]) by net1.nw.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA16368 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:54:29 +0800 Message-Id: <199703271654.AAA16368@net1.nw.com.au> From: "Beavis" To: Subject: CD-R Drivers Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:55:53 +0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hiya, i'm using FreeBSD 2.2-GAMMA, and have a Yamaha CDR-102 CD Writer. unfortunately, i have yet to come across any drivers for it. do you know where i could get some, or find someone willing to write one ? thanks -- Beavis From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:47:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00898 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00876 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.Telkomsel.co.id (root@as21port3.dnet.net.id [202.148.0.146]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA04772 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (arman@localhost) by ns1.Telkomsel.co.id (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA16032 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:30:19 +0700 (JVT) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.Telkomsel.co.id: arman owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:30:19 +0700 (JVT) From: Arman Hazairin Hasan X-Sender: arman@ns1.Telkomsel.co.id To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: DLT exchanger Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, Does any body knows the SCSI control command for DLT exchanger. I want to write a script that control the 'arm' of DLT exchanger in order to move the cartridge from repository to it's drive. regards, -arman- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:47:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00939 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:47:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00914 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from boulder.syr.servtech.com (boulder.syr.servtech.com [206.106.144.94]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA04746 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from boulder.syr.servtech.com (boulder.syr.servtech.com [206.106.144.94]) by boulder.syr.servtech.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA04156; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:30:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <333AA089.41C67EA6@servtech.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:30:01 -0500 From: Shawn Carey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "John S. Dyson" CC: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? References: <199703270427.XAA04344@dyson.iquest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson wrote: > > > Shawn Carey stands accused of saying: > > > > > > Now that we are running 2.2-RELEASE, this anomaly appears to be > > > something more serious than I originally thought, as gdb now stops the > > > program with the message "Process killed due to text file modification", > > > and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a diff between an idle > > > copy and the "modified" executable is nil. Furthermore, I have recently > > > discovered that if I link the program with -static, the problem goes > > > away. > > > > This looks very much like a problem that has been reported many times > > before, where one or more pages from a process' text are written back > > to the file. The pages aren't actually changed, but the file's timestamp > > is obviously updated. > > > I have not seen the problem on the 2.2 series recently. However, I seldom > use GDB... Is this a problem that pops up when using GDB (setting breakpoints, > etc.)? If it is, then that will give me a direction to look in. I'll also > look into reproducing the problem this weekend. > The problem is not GDB related, GDB just makes it clear when it happens. When GDB has stopped the program (which is every time so far), I have had no breakpoints or watchpoints set. I'll try running on a readonly filesystem later today. I wish I could send you the source for this program, as it exhibits this behaviour repeatably. Unfortunately, my boss would have kittens if I did this. Please let me know if there's anything you want me to try or look into... -Shawn From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:47:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00986 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:47:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00937 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:47:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA04767 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA03318; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:30:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id KAA17000; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:30:05 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199703271630.KAA17000@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: Small Disk Xterminal To: chris@bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 10:30:01 CST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris Coleman" at Mar 26, 97 10:56:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have about 5 Hewlett Packard 486 DX66 Computers with 80 meg Hard drives. > I want to set them up as xterminals to run programs off of a larger > FreeBSD Server. I tried looking in the archives and found some discussion > on this topic. But I was unable to discover how this was resolved. Woooohoooooo!! It sounds like you might like something I've been playing with for quite some time now. I was very frustrated by the lack of netboot support for de-driver cards (else I would have used a diskless FreeBSD install). So I bludgeoned the following together: I have a not-very-polished set of tools that allows me to build a floppy disk (1.44MB) that contains a minimal (MINIMAL) FreeBSD configuration on an MFS filesystem. This is potentially very handy for things like small routers, terminal servers, etc. It is ALSO useful to build a minimal Xterminal (although the Xterminal requires an -ro NFS mount from someplace). It sounds to me like this (or some variation) might be just what you're looking for. You can use XDM on the host system to make it appear as though each PC is a "terminal" directly on the larger system. I do this - quite successfully - and use it on a daily basis. "dors.sol.net", "giskard.sol.net", and a few others are all diskless machines. I outfit a 486DX5/133 PCI MB with 32MB RAM, a PCI Ethernet card, a floppy/case/power supply, and my choice of good video card. I don't have to worry about backing up the machine or buying a hard drive, making it a really cool solution. I have one hooked up to a P6/200 with 256MB RAM, and the combo just smokes for doing all sorts of things. It's really cool to load the Linux emulator and then run xquake. Downside: no swap space (although I suppose you could NFS swap). If you don't have enough RAM, and RAM is cheap, it crashes. I rarely see less than 10MB free though. In your particular case, you could use the base system's hard drive for swap (or swap plus boot). It would not be too hard to do. If anyone is interested in seeing what I did, please let me know and I'll pack it up. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:48:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01244 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01156; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from aviion.ts.kiev.ua (aviion.ts.kiev.ua [193.124.229.12]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id IAA04825 ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nbki.ipri.kiev.ua by aviion.ts.kiev.ua with ESMTP id PAA20912; (8.6.11/zah/2.1) Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:40:05 GMT Received: from cki.ipri.kiev.ua by nbki.ipri.kiev.ua with ESMTP id QAA20342; (8.6.9/zah/1.1) Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:33:16 GMT Received: from 194.44.146.14 (mac.ipri.kiev.ua [194.44.146.14]) by cki.ipri.kiev.ua (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA28744; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:13:33 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <333A6507.3FB7@cki.ipri.kiev.ua> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:16:06 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@cki.ipri.kiev.ua Organization: IPRI X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: Marty Leisner , msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, johnp@lodgenet.com, se@freebsd.org, spaz@u.washington.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSWord docs... References: <199703262222.PAA28916@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Is there anything which explains the format for a word document? > > Nothing public. You can obtain documentation under NDA from > Microsoft, provided you agree not to implement anything useful > with the information (like a word processor). > Hm, can I right to do a reingeneering of word file format, created with my word ? > > Can word6 be viewed on dos? (is there a dos reader for word6 documents?) > > WORDVU6.EXE? Search Altavista for "+binary+windowrd+file+format". > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:49:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01661 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01619; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA04589 ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from well.com (spidaman@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA08249; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:53:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:53:23 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Kallen Reply-To: Ian Kallen To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: (Dell Latitude) psm0/sc0 conflicts killing X? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know what else changed when I went from 2.2-GAMMA w/o PAO (Used the zp drivers from the 3c589) to 2.2.1-RELEASE... I'm on a Dell XPi p100 and Xinside's X server was doing fine w/ 800X600 @256 but since I ran the upgrade and applied the PAO patches, I've had to explicitly re-enable psm0 by booting w/ -c (other X won't start at all) but the keyboard is dead once I'm in X. I tried reinstalling Xinside but that made no differnce. Any comments or suggestions (if a look @ my kernel config is needed to comment on it, I'll send that along as well) appreciated! The next interface will not be another desktop metaphor.... Ian Kallen .... http://www.well.com/user/spidaman/ ....the revolution will not be televised. ===== TO RECEIVE MY PGP KEY, SEND MAIL TO spidey-pgp-info@well.com ======= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:51:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA02092 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02046 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgate.flevel.co.uk (root@fgate.flevel.co.uk [194.6.101.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA04268 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:11:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dev@localhost) by fgate.flevel.co.uk (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA23522 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:10:33 GMT Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:10:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Developer To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with PPP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm having a problem with the user side 'ppp' program. Ive connected it up to a dialup server and logged in, everything seems to be okay but the machine seems to loose all the packets it sends, althought it recieves packets according to tcpdump. The strange thing is also that 'route get default' hangs for ages before returning tun0?? Any help would be great. Thanks in advance. Trefor S> From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:53:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA02825 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02777 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from widefw.csl.sony.co.jp (widefw.csl.sony.co.jp [133.138.1.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA03745 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:28:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp (hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp [43.27.98.57]) by widefw.csl.sony.co.jp (8.8.3/3.5Wbeta) with ESMTP id NAA08129; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:23:27 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp (8.8.4/3.3W3) with ESMTP id WAA06023; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:23:11 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199703271323.WAA06023@hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp> To: rsvp-test@ISI.EDU cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, arl@arl.wustl.edu Subject: ALTQ/CBQ alpha release Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:23:11 +0900 From: Kenjiro Cho Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am pleased to announce the first public alpha release of ALTQ/CBQ. ALTQ is an alternate queueing framework for BSD Unix, currently built on FreeBSD-2.2.1R. We have ported SUN/UCL/LBL-CBQ onto this framework, which can be used as a traffic control kernel for RSVP. The release includes: alternate queueing support for FreeBSD-2.2.1R kernel CBQ and WFQ implementation tools for CBQ RSVP stubs for CBQ The source code is available at: or Note that the CBQ related part is just a port of Sun's RSVP/CBQ. Kenjiro Cho Sony Computer Science Laboratory Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------- ALTQ -- Version 0.2 March 27, 1997 This is an alpha release of Alternate Queueing for BSD Unix. This is ALPHA version in alpha quality, so use it at your own risk! All interfaces are likely to change in the future release. The release includes: alternate queueing support for FreeBSD-2.2.1R kernel CBQ and WFQ implementation tools for CBQ RSVP stubs for CBQ but lacks some of necessary documentation and functions. Some functions are implemented poorly. This release supports only limited network drivers. Supported network cards are: vx: 3Com PCI Ethernet Cards (3C590, 3C595, 3C900, 3C905) de: DEC 21040 PCI Ethernet Controller fxp:Intel EtherExpress Pro/100B PCI Fast Ethernet ep: 3Com 3C509 3C589 ed: Western Digital and SMC 80xx; Novell NE1000 and NE2000; 3Com 3C503 en: Efficient Network Inc. PCI ATM card. Adaptec 155Mbps PCI ATM card. (Chuck Cranor's driver is included in the ALTQ release.) lo: local loop (just for testing) The idea behind this package is to provide better queueing schemes required to realize resource-sharing and quality of service. Currently, the only queueing scheme implemented in BSD Unix is the simple tail-drop FIFO queueing. The BSD Unix systems have no general method to implement alternate queueing schemes, which is the main obstacle to implement a new queueing scheme to BSD Unix. We have designed and implemented a generic alternate queueing framework for the BSD Unix systems, and ported Sun's CBQ onto this framework. The system can be used for resource reservation with the RSVP implementation from ISI. The preliminary performance test result is encouraging; our CBQ implementation is able to handle 100Mbps without noticeable overhead. The goals of this project are three-fold: - to provide a framework to implement better queueing schemes. - to provide a link-sharing test-bed for network operators. - to provide a traffic control kernel to the RSVP community. You can get the latest ALTQ release from or For RSVP users: Note that the rsvp stubs are just a port of Sun's RSVP/CBQ. So, it does nothing better than Sun's RSVP. Also note that currently it supports only Controlled-Load Service and takes only bandwidth (rate) parameter to map the flow to a CBQ class. You can find the original Sun's RSVP/CBQ at Please don't ask me questions regarding RSVP. There's a mailing-list on RSVP implementation issues . To subscribe, you can send mail to "majordomo@isi.edu" with the following command in the body of your email message: "subscribe rsvp-test". For ATM users: The ATM driver is based on bsdatm1.4 written by Chuck Cranor of Washington University . Please get the original distribution and read the included documents for how to setup ATM. Also note that the current ATM driver doesn't support multicast so that some work is necessary to use with RSVP. WFQ: A sample WFQ implementation by Hiroshi Kyusojin of Keio University (kyu@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp). Change to TCP: FreeBSD-2.2 has a problem which resets TCP window size to the default value even when the user specifies the window size. To avoid this problem, "in_addroute() in netinet/in_rmx.c" is modified. A side effect is that TCP doen't save its ssthresh value on close, but it's what other 4.4BSD derived systems do. Send bug reports, suggestions, etc. to kjc@csl.sony.co.jp Kenjiro Cho Sony Computer Science Laboratory Inc. WIDE Project The CBQ related part of the release is derived from the RSVP/CBQ implementation of Sun Microsystems, Inc. The CBQ part is known as SUN/UCL/LBL-CBQ. The README file of the Sun RSVP 0.4.8 release says: Major components of this release were contributed by USC Information Sciences Institute (ISI), MIT Laboratory for Computer Science (LCS), the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC), Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories (LBL), and University College, London (UCL). We are deeply indebted to these groups for their kind assistance. So, I'm also deeply indebted to these groups. Special thanks to Sally Floyd of Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories, her papers and notes on CBQ are most helpful. -------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 09:54:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03040 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03006 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id EAA03585 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:50:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA12448; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:47:39 GMT To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), smc@servtech.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? References: <199703270427.XAA04344@dyson.iquest.net> From: Doug Rabson Date: 27 Mar 1997 11:47:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: "John S. Dyson"'s message of Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:27:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Lines: 32 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.25/XEmacs 19.14 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "John S. Dyson" writes: > > > Shawn Carey stands accused of saying: > > > > > > Now that we are running 2.2-RELEASE, this anomaly appears to be > > > something more serious than I originally thought, as gdb now stops the > > > program with the message "Process killed due to text file modification", > > > and sure enough, the file's date is changing but a diff between an idle > > > copy and the "modified" executable is nil. Furthermore, I have recently > > > discovered that if I link the program with -static, the problem goes > > > away. > > > > This looks very much like a problem that has been reported many times > > before, where one or more pages from a process' text are written back > > to the file. The pages aren't actually changed, but the file's timestamp > > is obviously updated. > > > I have not seen the problem on the 2.2 series recently. However, I seldom > use GDB... Is this a problem that pops up when using GDB (setting breakpoints, > etc.)? If it is, then that will give me a direction to look in. I'll also > look into reproducing the problem this weekend. I have noticed that GDB touches any executable which it is used to debug. I don't know about the shared libs but it seems likely that they get touched as well. I might have a go at tracking this one down next week. -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 734 3761 These are not the opinions of Microsoft. FAX: +44 171 734 6426 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:06:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03785 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03730 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:56:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from narcissus.ml.org (root@brosenga.Pitzer.edu [134.173.120.201]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA03094 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ben@localhost) by narcissus.ml.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA07652; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:46:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:46:24 -0800 (PST) From: Snob Art Genre To: "David E. Cross" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: still the xload problem... In-Reply-To: <199703270427.XAA11897@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id JAA03739 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, David E. Cross wrote: > xload under 2.2-RELEASE is still broken: > > bash-2.00$ xload > xload: can't open kvm files @Ù¿ï Make /dev/kmem group readable, and make xload setgid kmem. > -- > David Cross > ACS Consultant > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:06:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03813 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03766 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [15.253.72.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id DAA03243 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 03:14:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from fakir.india.hp.com (fakir.india.hp.com [15.10.40.3]) by palrel1.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA21255 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 03:13:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by fakir.india.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.20/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA223523030; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:43:50 +0500 Message-Id: <199703271143.AA223523030@fakir.india.hp.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: StrongARM based NC with NetBSD Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:43:50 +0500 From: "A JOSEPH KOSHY" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Take a look at: http://www.digital.com/semiconductor/dna.htm DEC seems to be giving away the design for a 233Mhz StrongARM based NC. Specs go something like: 4-64M memory; ISA/VLB/PCI buses; OpenFirmware, 128-512KB Boot ROM, serial parallel game ports, 2MB Video RAM, VGA and TV compatible video ouput, ZIP drive, 16 bit SB compatible audio. They are giving away hardware schematics, board layout, enclosure details, and source for a port of NetBSD 1.2. The proposed `release date' of April 1st is worrying though :-), sounds too good to be true. Koshy My Personal Opinions Only. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:08:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03833 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03778 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:57:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA03156 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:57:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA03751; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:52:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:52:21 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Chris Coleman cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Small Disk Xterminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Chris Coleman wrote: > I want the users at the X terminals to be logging in to the FreeBSD > machine becuase I don't want to have several accounts for my users. Will > this require NIS? Or can the XDM some how handle this? You can just make all those terminal boxes run "X -query thatbigserver", and users will log into xdm. All authentication will be done on server, so bexes could be small. But better have fast network -- window manager will start on the server. If users will use local xdms, you need to do authentication locally through xdms running on those terminals, but keep their home directories on remote box through NFS, so .Xauthority will be available for programs running on server. -- Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:09:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA02634 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02599 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:52:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca (maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.35.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id GAA03928 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 06:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from yves@localhost) by maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA22830 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:04:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703271404.JAA22830@maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Yves Lepage Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 09:04:02 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Argh! Reply-To: yves@CC.McGill.CA Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, Here's my problem(s): Mar 27 08:57:13 tempest mrouted[24078]: warning - sendto to 130.94.40.6 on 206.167.175.6: No buffer space available Mar 27 08:57:13 tempest mrouted[24078]: warning - sendto to 204.70.104.29 on 206.167.175.6: No buffer space available Mar 27 08:57:13 tempest mrouted[24078]: warning - sendto to 130.185.89.224 on 206.167.175.6: No buffer space available Mar 27 08:57:13 tempest mrouted[24078]: warning - sendto to 205.189.33.254 on 206.167.175.6: No buffer space available Mar 27 08:57:13 tempest mrouted[24078]: warning - sendto to 206.172.195.1 on 206.167.175.6: No buffer space available Mar 27 08:59:46 tempest mrouted[24078]: warning - duplicate prune received on vif 8 from 130.185.89.224 for (147.210.0.0 224.2.172.238)/38 old timer: 48 cur gm: 628 I have added this to my kernel conf file: options "NMBCLUSTERS=4096" But it doesn't seem to help very much. The machine has 48MB of mem, and it is dedicated to running mrouted. I am willing to have the biggest buffers on the planet, I have plenty of mem for that. What am I missing? Bill, (I know you're on that list :-)), all my downstream feeds run 3.8. I normally shouldn't be getting duplicate prunes, still I do. Any ideas? Thanks a lot, Yves Lepage From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:21:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA06482 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:21:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06466 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from truk.brandinnovators.com (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 6545 on Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:20:45 +0100; id TAA06545 efrom: hans@truk.brandinnovators.com; eto: hackers@freebsd.org Received: by truk.brandinnovators.com (8.7.5/BI96070101) for id SAA00260; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:56:02 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199703271756.SAA00260@truk.brandinnovators.com> From: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) Subject: driver panic To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:56:02 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have a driver which does: /* * As long as there's data, try to fill the output buffer to * it's maximum size. If the number of bytes is not a multiple * of four round down, effectively forgetting up to three bytes. */ while ((n = min((BUFSIZE - bp->b_olen), uio->uio_resid)) != 0) { if (n & 0x3) n &= ~0x3; if (n > 0) { uiomove(((u_char *) bp->b_obuf) + bp->b_olen, n, uio); bp->b_olen += n; } else { splx(s); return 0; } /* * As long as there's something in the output buffer, write it. */ while (bp->b_olen) { ... } ... } while a test program did: u_long wo = 0L; r = write(fd, (char *) wo, 4); which is obviously wrong. What makes me wonder is why this causes a page fault. As far as I can see uiomove() is the only one accessing the write buffer. When I do the right thing (i.e. (char *) &wo) everything is fine. Anyone any idea? Thanks in advance, Hans -- H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:31:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08015 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:31:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from renoir.cftnet.com (renoir.cftnet.com [163.125.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07999 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:31:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (gambert@localhost) by renoir.cftnet.com (8.8.0/8.6.4) id NAA04223; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:32:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:32:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Allen W. Gambert" X-Sender: gambert@renoir.cftnet.com To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Upgrading to 2.2.1 Release Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I currently have 2.2 Release installed and want to upgrade to 2.2.1 Release. I'm not sure if I should build/install a new kernel and than do a make world in /usr/src, or should I just do a make world in /usr/src than build/install a new kernel? Is there a better way to upgrade? Thanks, Allen Allen W. Gambert (813)980-1317 CFTnet Operation Center gambert@cftnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:52:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09671 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA09666 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:52:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA11262; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:52:35 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA17954; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:44:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327194414.SM04327@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:44:14 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za (Reinier Bezuidenhout), dennis@etinc.com (dennis), danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE References: <199703270802.KAA02458@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel O'Callaghan on Mar 27, 1997 19:52:42 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > I've already spoken with Jordan and others about organising a binary > patch package repository for use with pkg_add. I just need to put in the > extra effort to track the needed changes to the appropriate releases and > organise the packages to be built and distributed. Why don't you use the list of files i've been posting (and maybe the source upgrade kit i've put in freefall's FTP area)? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:53:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09713 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA09707 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA11268; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:53:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA17968; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:45:39 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327194539.TQ02543@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:45:39 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: joed@telecom.ksu.edu Subject: Re: userlevel ppp in 2.2.1 make failed References: <199703270847.CAA20268@cherokee.> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703270847.CAA20268@cherokee.>; from Joe Diehl on Mar 27, 1997 02:47:49 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Joe Diehl wrote: > While trying to recompile iijppp under 2.2.1-RELEASE, the make > dies complaining of not knowing how to make uucplock.c (which doesn't > exist in the iijppp source tree). Watch out the .PATH statement in the Makefile. > Please CC: any replies directly back to me,... Done, but note that your reply address is broken. I'm using the address from the sig now. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 10:56:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10016 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from hellonearth.com (jbowie@hellonearth.com [207.41.158.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09997 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:56:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jbowie@localhost) by hellonearth.com (UnSecureSMTP/UnSecureSMTP) id NAA02763; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:56:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:56:20 -0500 (EST) From: Jonathan Bowie X-Sender: jbowie@hellonearth.com To: Joe Diehl cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Userlevel ppp.. In-Reply-To: <199703270847.CAA20268@cherokee.> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk uucplock.c is part of the startslip application, you can find absolute path in source tree is: /usr/src/sbin/startslip/uucplock.c -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- // _________________________ // Jonathan Bowie |_________________________| // | | jbowie@bsdnet.org | | // Independant | | (603)436-5698 | | // Security |_|___________________|_| // Consultant |_________________________| // -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzMwMNkAAAEH/1y10JsYSoTyriSSpF/+dq+8dDAwK2wvZOwJsCXOcfnnLuF3 YIfGPqu/n8C2HC6ORWEyNNjPwQVpEVU3p1cM8idPRXTI+HVVBFiJ08IzkWP9CgGs UwqV73cZTxwXI+ZGwpQbM1bMGBNr4u+RAiivU++gomriMOuT3LLOpDvBUkH+/FIb bAK72jT3gVDLY5YGEhoOTyhDfOCr8PZPMv3uTpMYBwlPo9kvpf0Eciehl/zbpK7X /4IXD2CH94vvDcBMv7lLL0WJ65qsd2mvA5EiOfxzynyoO7zIlbdxwSFLyj4XJH8S Er/jS2Yb4TF1STBakY3ThLLGhmckUiPLBLW2Jz0ABRG0IkpvbmF0aGFuIEJvd2ll IDxqYm93aWVAYnNkbmV0Lm9yZz4= =+HJT -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Joe Diehl wrote: > Greetings, > > I just spent the last few hours upgrading my machine from 2.2-BETA to > 2.2.1R... The upgrade went fairly smoothly, just waiting for my > new kernel to finish before I call it quits for the night... > > While trying to recompile iijppp under 2.2.1-RELEASE, the make > dies complaining of not knowing how to make uucplock.c (which doesn't > exist in the iijppp source tree). Just to be sure I was dealing with > a correct source tree, I rm -rfed the usr.sbin src tree and reinstalled > it from scratch... The problem remained. > > Any thoughts on this problem? > > Please CC: any replies directly back to me, as I will be unable to receive > list traffic until I can get iijppp recompiled. > > Thanks > > --- > Joe Diehl > KSU Dept. of Telecommunications > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 11:17:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11474 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11468 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA11872; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:13:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703271913.LAA11872@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Arman Hazairin Hasan Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DLT exchanger Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:13:18 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:30:19 +0700 (JVT) Arman Hazairin Hasan wrote: > Does any body knows the SCSI control command for DLT exchanger. > I want to write a script that control the 'arm' of DLT exchanger > in order to move the cartridge from repository to it's drive. If you're using FreeBSD-current, I believe you can use the chio(1) command if you have the "ch" driver in your kernel. (Can't say for sure, since I don't run FreeBSD, but I think my driver was finally committed :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 11:21:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11811 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11804 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA11913; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:15:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703271915.LAA11913@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "A JOSEPH KOSHY" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM based NC with NetBSD Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:14:52 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:43:50 +0500 "A JOSEPH KOSHY" wrote: > The proposed `release date' of April 1st is worrying though :-), sounds > too good to be true. Heh... well, it's for real. I plan on buying one when they're "consumer available"... I've been wanting to get a NetBSD/arm32 system at home :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 12:30:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19035 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.mrtc.org [199.4.33.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19014; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) id KAA06983; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:29:59 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199703272029.KAA06983@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: DLT exchanger In-Reply-To: <199703271913.LAA11872@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from Jason Thorpe at "Mar 27, 97 11:13:18 am" To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:29:59 -1000 (HST) Cc: arman@bico.co.id, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:30:19 +0700 (JVT) > Arman Hazairin Hasan wrote: > > > Does any body knows the SCSI control command for DLT exchanger. > > I want to write a script that control the 'arm' of DLT exchanger > > in order to move the cartridge from repository to it's drive. > >If you're using FreeBSD-current, I believe you can use the chio(1) >command if you have the "ch" driver in your kernel. (Can't say for >sure, since I don't run FreeBSD, but I think my driver was finally >committed :-) >Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Yes, it was!!! :) I never did publicy thank the FreeBSD team for doing this. So, if you guys are reading this THANK YOU!!!! The driver works well on the cheapo 4mm Archive/Seagate drive. The thing that took me awhile to realize was that you had to be very explicit with chio. You cannot tell it to move a tape into the drive and expect it to return the one it already has. Here is the stupid short write-up I did for someone: The thing to keep in mind is that the tape changer is a robot. Robots are dumb. Robots only do what you tell them to. Unlike Douglas Adams you cannot have tape and no-tape at the same time. You cannot hold two tapes in either the tape drive or the tape slot. When tape starts it holds all tapes in holders and none it the drive. Here is me moving tape from the third slot into the drive and back. Then I move tape in the first slot into the drive. Rule of thumb is: chio "from" "to" www /root% chio status picker 0: slot 0: slot 1: slot 2: slot 3: drive 0: www /root% chio move slot 3 drive 0 www /root% chio status picker 0: slot 0: slot 1: slot 2: slot 3: drive 0: www /root% chio move drive 0 slot 3 www /root% chio status picker 0: slot 0: slot 1: slot 2: slot 3: drive 0: www /root% chio move slot 0 drive 0 www /root% chio status picker 0: slot 0: slot 1: slot 2: slot 3: drive 0: -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 12:35:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19406 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:35:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA19394 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA02010; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:18:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703272018.NAA02010@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: StrongARM based NC with NetBSD To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:18:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199703271915.LAA11913@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Mar 27, 97 11:14:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The proposed `release date' of April 1st is worrying though :-), sounds > > too good to be true. > > Heh... well, it's for real. I plan on buying one when they're "consumer > available"... I've been wanting to get a NetBSD/arm32 system at home :-) Any idea what they will cost? I just bought a multia a while ago... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 12:44:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA20498 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20490 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA13669; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:37:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703272037.MAA13669@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert Cc: koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM based NC with NetBSD Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:37:08 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:18:23 -0700 (MST) Terry Lambert wrote: > > Heh... well, it's for real. I plan on buying one when they're "consumer > > available"... I've been wanting to get a NetBSD/arm32 system at home :-) > > Any idea what they will cost? I just bought a multia a while ago... Not sure ... Given the target market, I'd say "very reasonable" .. less than a PC ... that's a wild guess, tho. I'm sure DEC will have more info available on that soon. I've given up on the Multia ... I've frotzed 3 of them now, by just turning them on; I think there are some QC problems with them. I'm not giving up on Alphas, tho... just going to start hunting for a deal on an EB64+ board :-) (Hmm, or maybe an AXP-VME :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 12:51:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA20921 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:51:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20913 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA12636; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:51:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18610; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:28:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327212831.HE50345@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:28:31 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: arman@BICO.co.id (Arman Hazairin Hasan) Subject: Re: DLT exchanger References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Arman Hazairin Hasan on Mar 27, 1997 23:30:19 +0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Arman Hazairin Hasan wrote: > Does any body knows the SCSI control command for DLT exchanger. > I want to write a script that control the 'arm' of DLT exchanger > in order to move the cartridge from repository to it's drive. ch(4) and chio(1) are your friends. They are available with FreeBSD 2.2R. It might be required that you hack an entry in /sys/scsi/scsiconf.c. If so, please submit us the entry. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 12:52:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA21018 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20960 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA12647; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:51:54 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18622; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:30:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327213027.CI28314@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:30:27 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: beav@nw.com.au (Beavis) Subject: Re: CD-R Drivers References: <199703271654.AAA16368@net1.nw.com.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703271654.AAA16368@net1.nw.com.au>; from Beavis on Mar 28, 1997 00:55:53 +0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Beavis wrote: > i'm using FreeBSD 2.2-GAMMA, and have a Yamaha CDR-102 CD Writer. > unfortunately, i have yet to come across any drivers for it. do you know > where i could get some, or find someone willing to write one ? Bug Yamaha to get the docs. Then it should be relatively easy to add the required 4 functions to /sys/scsi/worm.c. You might also try starting with something like Linux's cdwrite command, but don't be surprised if you get stuck. I have neither docs nor the device, so i don't feel very compelled to do the work. I will however be able to assist you. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 13:18:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA23269 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23023 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:16:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.5/amsoft/1.0) id XAA00308 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:23:42 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199703272023.XAA00308@amsoft.ru> Subject: moused & X11 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:23:42 +0300 (MSK) Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol, Russia X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! My usual configuration is 11 virtual consoles and XFree on ttyvb with xdm runned. It looks like it's not possible to have such layout in 2.2 freebsd with moused enabled. Am I rigth? I understand the reason, but I think something should be done to fix a problem. Correct me, if I'm on wrong way, but I see two methods: 1) To create a named socket, to which moused will copy all data from mouse port and to have XFree to read this socket as a mouse. It looks easy and I'm going to try.. 2) I'm not very well know what's happend when X11 activated/deactivated. Is it possible for user process (moused) to be warned of such event to release /dev/mouse (or what it is runned on) to make it possible for XFree to communicate with mouse? Any suggestions? Andrew Maltsev P.S. I'm not subscribed to freebsd-hackers, so please don't exclude my address from your answers.. -- am From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 13:20:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA23549 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:20:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23487; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA14980; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:16:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703272116.NAA14980@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "David Langford" Cc: arman@bico.co.id, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DLT exchanger Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:16:18 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:29:59 -1000 (HST) "David Langford" wrote: > The driver works well on the cheapo 4mm Archive/Seagate drive. > The thing that took me awhile to realize was that you had to be very > explicit with chio. You cannot tell it to move a tape into the drive > and expect it to return the one it already has. ...right. This was a concious design decision, which I'll rationalize here: - the driver cannot reasonably keep the state of the changer apparatus; many changers also have front panel controls which may be used at any time by a human operator. - in the case of multiple free slots, who is to make the decision where the in-drive tape should be returned to? This decision is very hard to make, esp. if a human operator has mucked with the front panel controls. - the amount of state one has to keep around gets larger as you add more drives and pickers into the picture. (I've used this with a multi-drive, multi-picker apparatus under NetBSD.) The chio(1) program is meant to be a simple interface for use by scripts/command line. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 13:26:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA24121 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:26:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24116 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA04379; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:25:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id PAA18688; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:25:52 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199703272125.PAA18688@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Okay, okay already! Diskless Xterminal stuff. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 15:25:51 CST Cc: fyeung@fyeung8.netific.com, spaz@u.washington.edu, chris@bb.cc.wa.us X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I stopped counting a little while ago. Please stop asking for it! :-) I have posted the bits at ftp.freebsd.sol.net:/pub/alpha/xkernel.tar.gz The README is attached. There are enough materials enclosed that you should be able to set up a diskless Xterminal. It's the same stuff I use here; I'm using one of my Xterminals right now. This is not a beginner level project, but on the other hand, it's not rocket science. Anyone who could set up a diskless box and understands poorly documented C code could get this up and running without too much trouble, I think. Please drop me a line if you do{,n't} have success with this. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 README: This is hardly a comprehensive document, it's more like a few notes about how it all works. I'm a cheap SOB, and I don't like putting hard drives in everything, not just because it's expensive (you can actually MOVE a box with no hard drive, while it's running, and you don't have to worry about backups). So, sometimes I feel that a diskless workstation is a practical solution, and I've been using FreeBSD based ones for several years now, with the ed-based cards. I finally got exasperated that I couldn't do the same thing with the de-based cards. They are nicer, faster, and PCI. But they don't have netboot support... and there are a few applications where a standalone system might be very useful. Since I have floppy drives in all my machines, I developed what I felt to be a reasonable compromise. I figured out (with a little guidance from the sysinstall build tools) how to make a standalone 1.44MB floppy, complete with kernel and a few basics. The basic premise is that I can get a standalone machine running off of a floppy. Then I NFS mount a server, and pull other goodies (like X11) off of it. To do this, I hacked up a custom init(8) called "myinit" that did the bare essentials: run an ifconfig and then run mount_nfs. If that all works, then it executes /usr/init (for maximum configurability on the server end). The arguments to ifconfig and mount_nfs are hard wired into myinit's source code (ewwwwwwww). The floppy's contents look like this: --------------------------------------- # df -k . Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/vn0c 763 580 183 76% /mnt # ls -lR total 3 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 28 20:26 boot drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 512 Dec 28 20:26 dev drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 28 20:26 etc drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 28 20:26 stand drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 28 20:26 usr ./boot: total 508 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 172032 Dec 28 20:26 ifconfig -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 159744 Dec 28 20:26 mount_nfs -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 176128 Dec 28 20:26 route ./dev: total 1 crw------- 1 root wheel 0, 0 Dec 28 20:26 console crw-rw---- 1 uucp dialer 28, 128 Dec 28 20:26 cuaa0 crw-rw---- 1 uucp dialer 28, 129 Dec 28 20:26 cuaa1 crw-rw---- 1 uucp dialer 28, 160 Dec 28 20:26 cuaia0 crw-rw---- 1 uucp dialer 28, 161 Dec 28 20:26 cuaia1 crw-rw---- 1 uucp dialer 28, 192 Dec 28 20:26 cuala0 crw-rw---- 1 uucp dialer 28, 193 Dec 28 20:26 cuala1 crw-r----- 1 root kmem 4, 0 Dec 28 20:26 drum dr-xr-xr-x 2 bin bin 1024 Dec 28 20:26 fd crw------- 1 root wheel 2, 14 Dec 28 20:26 io crw------- 1 root wheel 7, 0 Dec 28 20:26 klog crw-r----- 1 root kmem 2, 1 Dec 28 20:26 kmem crw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 32, 0 Dec 28 20:26 lkm crw-r----- 1 root kmem 2, 0 Dec 28 20:26 mem crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 2, 2 Dec 28 20:26 null crw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 2, 3 Dec 28 20:26 random crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 22, 2 Dec 28 20:26 stderr crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 22, 0 Dec 28 20:26 stdin crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 22, 1 Dec 28 20:26 stdout crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 1, 0 Dec 28 20:26 tty crw------- 1 root wheel 12, 0 Dec 28 20:26 ttyv0 crw------- 1 root wheel 12, 1 Dec 28 20:26 ttyv1 crw------- 1 root wheel 12, 2 Dec 28 20:26 ttyv2 crw------- 1 root wheel 12, 3 Dec 28 20:26 ttyv3 crw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 2, 4 Dec 28 20:26 urandom lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 5 Dec 28 20:26 vga -> ttyv0 crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 2, 12 Dec 28 20:26 zero ./dev/fd: total 0 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 0 Dec 28 20:26 0 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 1 Dec 28 20:26 1 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 10 Dec 28 20:26 10 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 11 Dec 28 20:26 11 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 12 Dec 28 20:26 12 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 13 Dec 28 20:26 13 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 14 Dec 28 20:26 14 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 15 Dec 28 20:26 15 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 16 Dec 28 20:26 16 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 17 Dec 28 20:26 17 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 18 Dec 28 20:26 18 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 19 Dec 28 20:26 19 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 2 Dec 28 20:26 2 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 20 Dec 28 20:26 20 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 21 Dec 28 20:26 21 ....etc.... crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 61 Dec 28 20:26 61 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 62 Dec 28 20:26 62 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 63 Dec 28 20:26 63 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 7 Dec 28 20:26 7 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 8 Dec 28 20:26 8 crw-rw-rw- 1 bin bin 22, 9 Dec 28 20:26 9 ./etc: total 1 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 32 Dec 28 20:26 hosts ./stand: total 68 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 62174 Dec 28 20:26 sysinstall ./usr: # --------------------------------------- You will note that I didn't bother messing around with crunch to save space in the binaries. You will also note that ifconfig and route both exist, meaning there are enough tools for a simple Ethernet router right now. :-) To set this thing up for yourself, you're on your own. Read that line again a few times... I will do what I can to help, but there is no promise of support or assistance with this. I am a one man shop and may not have the time to help everyone! But, here's a few hints. 1) You need a custom kernel, and therefore the FreeBSD kernel sources. There is a 2.2-derived kernel config file called XKERNEL included. The "build" script expects you to use it. 2) Edit the file "hosts" to contain both your client and the NFS server. The client reference is used by "myinit" to ifconfig the interface. The server is obvious. This is not strictly necessary, I guess, but was the first step towards making the code more portable and less hardwired. 3) Edit myinit.c to have a reasonable set of args for ifconfig and mount_nfs. 4) Running "build" after building the kernel will do most of the dirty work. 5) dd if=boot.flp of=/dev/rfd0c bs=512 on a formatted floppy to finish making your boot floppy. Now comes more fun. You get to configure both the NFS server and X11. 6) I highly recommend that you already have a preconfigured XF86Config file for the card you want. Life will suck if you don't. 7) Read the comments in install_server_usr_fs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you do NOT understand what it is doing, do NOT use it, or you might seriously hose up your system. It is simply a tool to do most of the dreary stuff automatically. It does not do everything for you. I advise you to understand it fully. 8) You need to figure out which X11R6/XF86 bits need to get installed. 9) If you want to be able to use "top" to monitor the Xserver (it's a good idea), you need a hacked up copy of top with one single change: the kvm_open needs to open "/usr/kernel" instead of the value it obtains from the system. This means that your kernel needs to be available as /usr/kernel, fortunately "build" leaves it around for you. ("top" doesn't seem to get the keyboard in the correct mode, anyone who figures this out gets a hearty thank-you from me.) If not - compile usrinit.c with -DNOTOP or it'll whine all day at you. 10) Configure your system to NFS export the appropriate data, read-only, with as minimal a set of permissions as possible. 11) Set up an XDM server on your network to answer the Xterminal's automatic xdm broadcast queries. 12) Boot it. Comments and improved directions are not unwelcome. Where possible and practical, the init's will try to emit semi-useful error messages. Make sure you page through vty0/vty1 watching for problems. --------------------------------------- Some random thoughts about all of this: --------------------------------------- There are places where a floppy drive might be undesirable, such as a school: in such circumstances, it could either be hidden inside the machine in a hard drive bay (such that the machine would need to be disassembled to access it), or a very low capacity hard drive could be substituted (use your creativity to build such a beast and install the stuff on it). For some applications, it might actually be possible AND acceptable to netboot, in which case these tools would still be useful to build a minimal skeleton system that was optimized for a task. There is nothing preventing this from being used for other dedicated applications. I've been approached about it for tasks such as a mini- router, terminal server, etc. It's all very possible. For such an application, it might be possible to set up some space on the floppy as a miniature configuration partition, or provide some other mechanism to provide for a self-configurable floppy. The current system obviously builds the information in at floppy creation time. It would be neat/cool/challenging to try to eliminate the dependence on a read-only NFS server, and have an Xserver-on-the-disk. With an external font server, such a thing might just be possible! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 13:51:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26409 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA26392; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA13370; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:51:06 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA18836; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:30:28 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970327223027.OA35337@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:30:27 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Cc: langfod@dihelix.com (David Langford) Subject: Re: DLT exchanger References: <199703271913.LAA11872@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> <199703272029.KAA06983@caliban.dihelix.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703272029.KAA06983@caliban.dihelix.com>; from David Langford on Mar 27, 1997 10:29:59 -1000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Langford wrote: > >If you're using FreeBSD-current, I believe you can use the chio(1) > >command if you have the "ch" driver in your kernel. > Yes, it was!!! :) I never did publicy thank the FreeBSD team for doing this. > So, if you guys are reading this THANK YOU!!!! The thanks belong to Jason who's been submitting the driver. The only thing we FreeBSD folks did with it was leaving it in the GNATS queue for too long. ;-) I'm glad it works well for you, since i had to import it blindly, without ever having a chance to get my hands on a media changer device. Given that some things have been evolving still in FreeBSD since the time Jason submitted the driver, i still had to modify it quite a bit. Good to know it does its job. > Here is the stupid short write-up I did for someone: Can you please submit this to Peter da Silva, for inclusion into the FAQ, or even better, to the docs folks for the handbook? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 13:54:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26699 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26694 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA03371; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:10:53 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:10:52 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Reinier Bezuidenhout , dennis Subject: Re: 2.2.1-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <19970327194414.SM04327@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > > I've already spoken with Jordan and others about organising a binary > > patch package repository for use with pkg_add. I just need to put in the > > extra effort to track the needed changes to the appropriate releases and > > organise the packages to be built and distributed. > > Why don't you use the list of files i've been posting (and maybe the > source upgrade kit i've put in freefall's FTP area)? I will. That's why I've kept it. Maybe over the Easter long weekend. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 13:58:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27066 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:58:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27059 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:58:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA08047; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:58:06 -0800 (PST) To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:02:34 +0900." <199703271002.TAA29041@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:58:06 -0800 Message-ID: <8043.859499886@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If 2.2.1-RELEASE does not permit no-password account, I think > sysinstall should display the warning message before exitting > sysinstall without setting root password from sysinstall (except > upgrade installation). I'm seriously thinking of just fixing it in the dead of night and not telling anybody. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 15:12:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA01566 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:12:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from netrover.com (ottawa18.netrover.com [205.209.19.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01556 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:12:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-From: brianc@netrover.com Received: (from brianc@localhost) by netrover.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02651 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:11:30 -0500 (EST) Resent-Message-Id: <199703272311.SAA02651@netrover.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:11:08 -0500 From: brianc@netrover.com (Brian Campbell) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Subject: Re: binary/resident size References: <199703260745.SAA01189@godzilla.zeta.org.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-to: brianc@pobox.com In-Reply-To: <199703260745.SAA01189@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Mar 26, 1997 18:45:14 +1100 Resent-Date: Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:11:30 -0500 Resent-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > >Just for curiousity's sake I built an assembler program that consisted soley > >of "jmp ." (just to keep track of how much idle time has been "wasted". > >I suspect cp_time[CP_IDLE] could tell me the same thing, but not via ps > >or top). > > >What I don't understand is why VSZ is 132k and RSS is 20k. > > > > UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > > 134 2443 1 333 74 20 132 20 - RN v1- 5502:24.27 idle > > > >It is run as 'idprio 31 nice -20 idle'. > > I get an RSS of 24 under -current. 24 is easy to explain: > > 1 page text > 1 page stack > 1 page page directory > 1 page page table > 2 pages user area > > I don't know what the big VSZ is for. Now that I'm running 2.2.1 I get an RSS of 24 as well. I just re-implemented it as a kernel thread (ala pagedaemon, vmdaemon, etc), but while rebuilding my top binary I noticed an '#ifdef IDLE_PROC'. Does FreeBSD-smp already have something like this? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 15:27:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA02498 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:27:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02492 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:27:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA09319; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:24:47 -0800 (PST) To: "A JOSEPH KOSHY" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: StrongARM based NC with NetBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:43:50 +0500." <199703271143.AA223523030@fakir.india.hp.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:24:47 -0800 Message-ID: <9315.859505087@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Take a look at: > > http://www.digital.com/semiconductor/dna.htm > > DEC seems to be giving away the design for a 233Mhz StrongARM based > NC. Specs go something like: 4-64M memory; ISA/VLB/PCI buses; OpenFirmware, > 128-512KB Boot ROM, serial parallel game ports, 2MB Video RAM, VGA and TV > compatible video ouput, ZIP drive, 16 bit SB compatible audio. > > They are giving away hardware schematics, board layout, enclosure details, > and source for a port of NetBSD 1.2. > > The proposed `release date' of April 1st is worrying though :-), sounds > too good to be true. Heh. I've seen the box and it does indeed work. FreeBSD is also involved in this project - it runs on the machines (NC servers) which feed these little diskless NC boxes, and it's a nice cooperative arrangement for both camps in that it lets each play to its respective strengths. I'd like to see a lot more projects like this! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 15:55:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA04464 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:55:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.200.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04459 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:55:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (YiPywwgX5mjP8C6mU6OMeD3/2Q1PiPo/@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.33.1]) by mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.5Wpl4) with ESMTP id IAA16210; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:54:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zenith.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.33.60]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id IAA24323; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:58:24 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199703272358.IAA24323@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Andrew Maltsev cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: moused & X11 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:23:42 +0300." <199703272023.XAA00308@amsoft.ru> References: <199703272023.XAA00308@amsoft.ru> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:58:22 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >My usual configuration is 11 virtual consoles and XFree on ttyvb with >xdm runned. It looks like it's not possible to have such layout in 2.2 >freebsd with moused enabled. Am I rigth? I understand the reason, but I >think something should be done to fix a problem. > >Correct me, if I'm on wrong way, but I see two methods: > >1) To create a named socket, to which moused will copy all data from mouse >port and to have XFree to read this socket as a mouse. It looks easy and >I'm going to try.. > >2) I'm not very well know what's happend when X11 activated/deactivated. >Is it possible for user process (moused) to be warned of such event to >release /dev/mouse (or what it is runned on) to make it possible for >XFree to communicate with mouse? > >Any suggestions? To use your mouse, serial, PS/2 or whatever, both in your console and in your X, you need to tell `moused' the true type of your mouse and its port. But tell the X server it should access the mouse at `/dev/sysmouse' and the type of the mouse is `MouseSystems', REGARDLESS of the actual type of your mouse. To do this, you should put the following lines in the `Pointer' section of your `XF86Config': Protocol "MouseSystems" Device "/dev/sysmouse" Kazu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 16:31:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA07045 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:31:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07038 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20995; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:31:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703280031.QAA20995@austin.polstra.com> To: "Daniel M. Eischen" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:59:47 CST." <199703271559.JAA02972@iworks.InterWorks.org> References: <199703271559.JAA02972@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:31:22 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm trying to build a cross development binutils with a > sparc-sun-solaris2.5 host and an i386-unknown-freebsd target. The > configure fails when configuring ld (doesn't know i386-unknown-freebsd > as a target). Is i386-unknown-bsd (which configures without problem) > good enough to use as a target? I hate to tell you, but binutils-2.7 doesn't have working support for FreeBSD's a.out format. I have heard reports of people getting the assembler to work, but the linker is nowhere close. The code for dealing with shared libraries doesn't even exist. > I also noted that another recognized target is i386-unknown-freebsdelf > which JDP added support for. That one works fine, but it's for playing around with ELF rather than building real FreeBSD binaries. If you want a cross environment to FreeBSD, your easiest path is probably to port the old assembler and linker from our /usr/src tree. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 16:48:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA08026 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08021 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:48:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03944; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:48:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703280048.QAA03944@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: yves@CC.McGill.CA cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Argh! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:04:02 EST." <199703271404.JAA22830@maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:48:29 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It looks like your mrouted is not connected to the network or you have a very slow link. Check your default route. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 17:00:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA08923 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08917 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:00:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id TAA07336; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:00:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703280100.TAA07336@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:00:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: jdp@austin.polstra.com Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I also noted that another recognized target is i386-unknown-freebsdelf > > which JDP added support for. > > That one works fine, but it's for playing around with ELF rather than > building real FreeBSD binaries. Hmm. What's the status of our ELF support? Can I just use the ELF version and make a cross development system for FreeBSD ELF binaries? I assume we're going to have native ELF support some time in the future, so if there was a patch kit to 2.2.1 (or even 3.0) I could live with that. > If you want a cross environment to FreeBSD, your easiest path is > probably to port the old assembler and linker from our /usr/src tree. Will try to do that. Thanks Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 17:18:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA09738 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA09733 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14608(6)>; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:16:56 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177486>; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:16:52 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Michael Smith cc: dennis@etinc.com (dennis), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Object Dependencies In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:12:29 PST." <199703210212.MAA11202@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:16:48 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <97Mar27.171652pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We could always do what Sun did, and allow the same config file construct to refer to source or object, depending on whether or not the source file exists. That way development and distribution machines can have the same files file, and config magically generates a reference to the .o if the .c doesn't exist. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 17:22:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA09942 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA09934 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:22:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15885(5)>; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:22:17 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177486>; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:22:08 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org, Wolfram Schneider Subject: Re: old BSD manpages (Re: cvs commit: www/data docs.sgml) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:22:04 PST." <199703202122.WAA00646@campa.panke.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:22:00 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <97Mar27.172208pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wolfram Schneider wrote: >I'm still seeking the manual pages for NET/1 gatekeeper.dec.com:/pub/BSD has a net1 directory. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 17:41:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10897 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:41:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from boulder.syr.servtech.com (boulder.syr.servtech.com [206.106.144.94]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10872; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:41:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from boulder.syr.servtech.com (boulder.syr.servtech.com [206.106.144.94]) by boulder.syr.servtech.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA04671; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:47:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <333B2338.41C67EA6@servtech.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:47:36 -0500 From: Shawn Carey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stesin@gu.net CC: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? References: <199703270128.LAA04400@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:28:28 Andrew Stesin said: > > Just curious, what will happen in case the program file affected > by this bug will occasionally reside on a R/O-mounted FS? > > If the kernel will eat this difference quietly, without > any strange side effects, crashes, messages or so -- I'd probably > wonder... > Yes, it will. I tried this today, and even GDB was happy. As soon as I remounted the filesystem R/W the problem reappeared... So, it seems to me we have two interesting data points regarding this: 1) Statically linked binaries are not affected by this phenomenon. 2) Binaries residing on R/O filesystems are not affected either. Does anyone know anything else? -Shawn From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 19:14:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA15126 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15120; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28286; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:13:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703280313.TAA28286@austin.polstra.com> To: smc@servtech.com Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <333AA089.41C67EA6@servtech.com> References: <199703270427.XAA04344@dyson.iquest.net> <333AA089.41C67EA6@servtech.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:13:45 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <333AA089.41C67EA6@servtech.com>, Shawn Carey wrote: > The problem is not GDB related, GDB just makes it clear when it > happens. When GDB has stopped the program (which is every time so far), > I have had no breakpoints or watchpoints set. Hmm, well I've just been messing around with it, and to me it does seem related to GDB. At least, I can make it happen reliably with GDB, but not without GDB. Mind you, I don't think it's a GDB bug. It's just that GDB writes into the text segments of the executables. On a -2.2 system (unknown vintage, sorry), I compiled hello.c with "cc -g": #include main(int argc, char *argv[]) { printf("Hello, world!\n"); return 0; } Then I started gdb on it, and set a breakpoint on "main". I ran it repeatedly (all from the same gdb invocation). Many, but not all, of the times, GDB gave me the message that the file had changed. I just tried it on a -current system from March 17th, and it exhibited the same behavior. In another window, I did repeated "ls -lT" commands on the executable. Its modtime did in fact change, though the appearance of each change lagged a bit behind the moment when GDB noticed the difference. I am pretty sure that lag was caused by the delays between "update" runs. (A "sync" reliably made the changes visible to "ls".) Hmmm ... Hey, this is pretty interesting. I set the breakpoint at main and alternamed "r" "c" "r" "c" ... over and over rapidly. (I.e.: run the program, continue past the breakpoint, program finishes, repeat.) It looked very much like I got the "has changed" message from GDB about every 30 seconds, which is the kern.update interval. Does this give you something to chew on, John Dyson? -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 19:29:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA15709 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.200.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15684; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (M1jR7d7E0xeCyWCQiNBE44y3k3CXQsBa@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.33.1]) by mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.5Wpl4) with ESMTP id MAA16977; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zenith.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.33.60]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id MAA26251; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:33:40 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199703280333.MAA26251@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Ian Kallen cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: (Dell Latitude) psm0/sc0 conflicts killing X? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:53:23 PST." References: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:33:39 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I don't know what else changed when I went from 2.2-GAMMA w/o PAO (Used >the zp drivers from the 3c589) to 2.2.1-RELEASE... I'm on a Dell XPi p100 >and Xinside's X server was doing fine w/ 800X600 @256 but since I ran the >upgrade and applied the PAO patches, I've had to explicitly re-enable psm0 >by booting w/ -c (other X won't start at all) I think this is normal. The psm driver is disabled in GENERIC kernel, with or without PAO, by default, isn't it? >but the keyboard is dead >once I'm in X. I tried reinstalling Xinside but that made no >differnce. Any comments or suggestions (if a look @ my kernel config >is needed to comment on it, I'll send that along as well) appreciated! I had a report from another Dell Latitude XPi owner stating that if he tries to change the keyboard repeat rate by kbdcontrol, his keyboard freezes. He and I are now chasing the problem. It appears that the keyboard controller of his Latitude behaves in an unusual way. I wonder the cause of your problem is similar to his. I would be very grateful if you could try the following patch to /sys/i386/isa/syscons.c, rebuild the kernel, and try `kbdcontrol -r fast' or try starting X. Please send me debug messages you see. You may see something like: sc0: enabling tty intr. (set_keyboard) sc0: about to send command and data (set_keyboard) sc0: command:xx data:yy ret:zz (set_keybard) in the console (vty0). If you see: sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) your problem is the same as his. Kazu --- syscons.c-1.205 Mon Mar 3 10:09:00 1997 +++ syscons.c Mon Mar 24 12:04:57 1997 @@ -647,6 +651,12 @@ mark_all(cur_console); } + if (!kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, TRUE)) { + log(LOG_DEBUG, "sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr)\n"); + return; + } else { + kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, FALSE); + } /* * Loop while there is still input to get from the keyboard. * I don't think this is nessesary, and it doesn't fix @@ -3114,7 +3131,7 @@ if ((c == -1) || !set_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc, kbdc_get_device_mask(sc_kbdc), - KBD_ENABLE_KBD_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_KBD_INT + KBD_DISABLE_KBD_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_KBD_INT | KBD_DISABLE_AUX_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_AUX_INT)) { /* CONTROLLER ERROR */ kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, FALSE); @@ -3128,9 +3145,14 @@ * but the timeout routine (`scrn_timer()') will be blocked * by the lock flag set via `kbdc_lock()' */ + log(LOG_DEBUG, "sc0: enabling tty intr. (set_keyboard)\n"); splx(s); + log(LOG_DEBUG, "sc0: about to send command and data (set_keyboard)\n"); - send_kbd_command_and_data(sc_kbdc, command, data); + log(LOG_DEBUG, "sc0: command:%x data:%x ret:%x (set_keybard)\n", + command, data, + send_kbd_command_and_data(sc_kbdc, command, data)); + send_kbd_command(sc_kbdc, KBDC_ENABLE_KBD); /* restore the interrupts */ if (!set_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc, From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 19:33:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA15963 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15956 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:33:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703280333.TAA15956@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA238619516; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:25:16 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: StrongARM based NC with NetBSD To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:25:15 +1100 (EDT) Cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199703272018.NAA02010@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 27, 97 01:18:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said: > > > > The proposed `release date' of April 1st is worrying though :-), sounds > > > too good to be true. > > > > Heh... well, it's for real. I plan on buying one when they're "consumer > > available"... I've been wanting to get a NetBSD/arm32 system at home :-) > > Any idea what they will cost? I just bought a multia a while ago... If the release is anything to go by, under the price of the JavaStation so, around or under $1k. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 19:47:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA16586 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from einstein.fisica.ist.utl.pt (einstein.fisica.ist.utl.pt [193.136.197.224]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16580 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (gabriel@localhost) by einstein.fisica.ist.utl.pt (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA01504; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:46:01 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:46:00 +0100 (MET) From: Jose Gabriel J Marcelino To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSWord docs... In-Reply-To: <199703271713.KAA01589@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But WinWord format (which is what we are really discussing here) > is not documented in the book, though some gross hints are given: > > I'm not really interested in hacking this out; I don't own a copy > of Word to use to generate test data sets of known content, and that's > probably prohibited in the license if I were to go buy a copy. You can have a look at this page which describes the format of a WinWord document file (and the basics for all other M$ software OLE-based filetypes). The author was kind enough to provide a Perl package and utilities for reading Word documents. http://wwwwbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~schwartz/pmh/ Cheers, Gabriel -- Jose Gabriel J Marcelino gabriel@fisica.ist.utl.pt From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 20:02:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17186 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from obiwan.aceonline.com.au (obiwan.aceonline.com.au [203.103.90.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17178 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:02:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.aceonline.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA00427; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:50:54 +0800 (WST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:50:54 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Joe Greco cc: Chris Coleman , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Small Disk Xterminal In-Reply-To: <199703271630.KAA17000@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Joe Greco wrote: > > I have about 5 Hewlett Packard 486 DX66 Computers with 80 meg Hard drives. > > I want to set them up as xterminals to run programs off of a larger > > FreeBSD Server. I tried looking in the archives and found some discussion > > on this topic. But I was unable to discover how this was resolved. > > Woooohoooooo!! > > It sounds like you might like something I've been playing with for quite > some time now. > Same. :) > I have a not-very-polished set of tools that allows me to build a floppy > disk (1.44MB) that contains a minimal (MINIMAL) FreeBSD configuration on > an MFS filesystem. This is potentially very handy for things like small > routers, terminal servers, etc. It is ALSO useful to build a minimal > Xterminal (although the Xterminal requires an -ro NFS mount from > someplace). > Why? What other programs would the straight X server need? Could you fit them compressed onto a 1.44mb floppy? I was thinking of booting off a floppy disk, and "netbooting" (kinda), by getting what was needed, placing it into a minimal ramdisk on the machine, and then running totally diskless. > for swap (or swap plus boot). It would not be too hard to do. > Swap? Yes, RAM is so relatively cheap you wouldn't really have problems with it. I know of xterms with 4 and 8mb RAM that run just fine when netbooted. > If anyone is interested in seeing what I did, please let me know and > I'll pack it up. > Please do (to adrian@deathstar.ml.org). > ... JG > I've also been thinking about the diskless station idea. Cool, please send me what you've done. Cya. -- Adrian Chadd | UNIX, MS-DOS and Windows ... | (also known as the Good, the bad and the | ugly..) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 20:12:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17634 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17626; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:12:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id XAA14577; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id XAA24221; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:10:36 -0500 (EST) To: Jason Thorpe cc: "David Langford" , arman@bico.co.id, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: DLT exchanger In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:16:18 PST." <199703272116.NAA14980@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:10:36 -0500 Message-ID: <24219.859522236@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jason Thorpe wrote in message ID <199703272116.NAA14980@lestat.nas.nasa.gov>: > The chio(1) program is meant to be a simple interface for use > by scripts/command line. On a related note (somewhat) does anyone have a script to interface Amanda to chio(1)? I'd rather not re-invent the wheel :) Thanks, Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 20:12:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17678 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17667 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:12:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA04768; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:28:56 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:28:55 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Developer cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with PPP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Developer wrote: > The strange thing is also that 'route get default' hangs for ages before > returning tun0?? Use 'route -n get default', which turns off DNS lookups. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 21:15:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA19982 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:15:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19977; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from well.com (spidaman@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA28333; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:14:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:14:55 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Kallen To: Kazutaka YOKOTA cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Dell Latitude) psm0/sc0 conflicts killing X? In-Reply-To: <199703280333.MAA26251@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, I got almost the exact same messages, including sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) well, if you have a fix, I'd be happy to test it for you :) Shall I revert to the original syscons.c or will patching it with the debugging stuff be OK? Thank You Very Much! On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > > >I don't know what else changed when I went from 2.2-GAMMA w/o PAO (Used > >the zp drivers from the 3c589) to 2.2.1-RELEASE... I'm on a Dell XPi p100 > >and Xinside's X server was doing fine w/ 800X600 @256 but since I ran the > >upgrade and applied the PAO patches, I've had to explicitly re-enable psm0 > >by booting w/ -c (other X won't start at all) > > I think this is normal. The psm driver is disabled in GENERIC kernel, > with or without PAO, by default, isn't it? > > >but the keyboard is dead > >once I'm in X. I tried reinstalling Xinside but that made no > >differnce. Any comments or suggestions (if a look @ my kernel config > >is needed to comment on it, I'll send that along as well) appreciated! > > I had a report from another Dell Latitude XPi owner stating that if he > tries to change the keyboard repeat rate by kbdcontrol, his keyboard > freezes. He and I are now chasing the problem. It appears that the > keyboard controller of his Latitude behaves in an unusual way. I wonder > the cause of your problem is similar to his. > > I would be very grateful if you could try the following patch to > /sys/i386/isa/syscons.c, rebuild the kernel, and try `kbdcontrol -r > fast' or try starting X. Please send me debug messages you see. > You may see something like: > > sc0: enabling tty intr. (set_keyboard) > sc0: about to send command and data (set_keyboard) > sc0: command:xx data:yy ret:zz (set_keybard) > > in the console (vty0). If you see: > > sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) > > your problem is the same as his. > > Kazu > > --- syscons.c-1.205 Mon Mar 3 10:09:00 1997 > +++ syscons.c Mon Mar 24 12:04:57 1997 > @@ -647,6 +651,12 @@ > mark_all(cur_console); > } > > + if (!kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, TRUE)) { > + log(LOG_DEBUG, "sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr)\n"); > + return; > + } else { > + kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, FALSE); > + } > /* > * Loop while there is still input to get from the keyboard. > * I don't think this is nessesary, and it doesn't fix > @@ -3114,7 +3131,7 @@ > if ((c == -1) > || !set_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc, > kbdc_get_device_mask(sc_kbdc), > - KBD_ENABLE_KBD_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_KBD_INT > + KBD_DISABLE_KBD_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_KBD_INT > | KBD_DISABLE_AUX_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_AUX_INT)) { > /* CONTROLLER ERROR */ > kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, FALSE); > @@ -3128,9 +3145,14 @@ > * but the timeout routine (`scrn_timer()') will be blocked > * by the lock flag set via `kbdc_lock()' > */ > + log(LOG_DEBUG, "sc0: enabling tty intr. (set_keyboard)\n"); > splx(s); > + log(LOG_DEBUG, "sc0: about to send command and data (set_keyboard)\n"); > > - send_kbd_command_and_data(sc_kbdc, command, data); > + log(LOG_DEBUG, "sc0: command:%x data:%x ret:%x (set_keybard)\n", > + command, data, > + send_kbd_command_and_data(sc_kbdc, command, data)); > + send_kbd_command(sc_kbdc, KBDC_ENABLE_KBD); > > /* restore the interrupts */ > if (!set_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc, > > > The next interface will not be another desktop metaphor.... Ian Kallen .... http://www.well.com/user/spidaman/ ....the revolution will not be televised. ===== TO RECEIVE MY PGP KEY, SEND MAIL TO spidey-pgp-info@well.com ======= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 21:40:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA20991 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from boulder.syr.servtech.com (boulder.syr.servtech.com [206.106.144.94]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20984; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from boulder.syr.servtech.com (boulder.syr.servtech.com [206.106.144.94]) by boulder.syr.servtech.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA05360; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:47:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <333B5B51.41C67EA6@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:46:57 -0500 From: Shawn Carey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Polstra CC: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? References: <199703270427.XAA04344@dyson.iquest.net> <333AA089.41C67EA6@servtech.com> <199703280313.TAA28286@austin.polstra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Polstra wrote: > > In article <333AA089.41C67EA6@servtech.com>, > Shawn Carey wrote: > > The problem is not GDB related, GDB just makes it clear when it > > happens. When GDB has stopped the program (which is every time so far), > > I have had no breakpoints or watchpoints set. > > Hmm, well I've just been messing around with it, and to me it does seem > related to GDB. At least, I can make it happen reliably with GDB, > but not without GDB. Mind you, I don't think it's a GDB bug. It's > just that GDB writes into the text segments of the executables. > Any chance we have two unrelated but similar problems? When I run my executable (linked against shared libs) directly from the shell (GDB not involved), the timestamp on the file changes every time, though it appears to run normally. If I run the same executable under GDB, it runs for 10 seconds at the most and then GDB kills it before reporting "Process terminated due to text file modification". No breakpoints, no nuthin. Not even a .gdbinit. Now, if I link with -static, the exectuable retains its timestamp, even whe run under GDB, and GDB lets it run peacefully. I too have seen gdb touch the files it runs - what I'm talking about here looks to me like something else. -Shawn From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 22:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA21888 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:01:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21879; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:01:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.4/8.6.9) id BAA14311; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:01:27 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199703280601.BAA14311@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? In-Reply-To: <199703280313.TAA28286@austin.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Mar 27, 97 07:13:45 pm" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:01:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: smc@servtech.com, dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does this give you something to chew on, John Dyson? > That is exactly the kind of info that is useful for investigation, John Polstra :-). John Dyson From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 22:54:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA24141 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.200.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24121; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 22:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (kcQ8k77UcVrWIoO69OOTadZgLAfwRSFo@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.33.1]) by mailsrv.cc.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.5Wpl4) with ESMTP id PAA17757; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:53:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zenith.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.33.60]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id PAA29688; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:57:36 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199703280657.PAA29688@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Ian Kallen cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: (Dell Latitude) psm0/sc0 conflicts killing X? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:14:55 PST." References: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:57:30 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Yes, I got almost the exact same messages, including > sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) Now, may I assume you got the messages in the following order, the return code was "fa" ("zz" in the fifth line) and the keyboard did NOT freeze? sc0: enabling tty intr. (set_keyboard) sc0: about to send command and data (set_keyboard) sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) sc0: command:xx data:yy ret:zz (set_keybard) ~~ sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) >well, if you have a fix, I'd be happy to test it for you :) Shall I >revert to the original syscons.c or will patching it with the debugging >stuff be OK? Please revert to the original syscons.c and apply the following patch. It is known to work, that is, kbdcontrol can change key repeat rate and the X server doesn't lock up the keyboard. This patch doesn't generate debug messages, so it will be more suitable for daily use than the previous one. Kazu --- syscons.c-dist Mon Mar 3 10:09:00 1997 +++ syscons.c Mon Mar 17 08:02:35 1997 @@ -3110,11 +3111,12 @@ /* disable the keyboard and mouse interrupt */ s = spltty(); +#if 0 c = get_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc); if ((c == -1) || !set_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc, kbdc_get_device_mask(sc_kbdc), - KBD_ENABLE_KBD_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_KBD_INT + KBD_DISABLE_KBD_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_KBD_INT | KBD_DISABLE_AUX_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_AUX_INT)) { /* CONTROLLER ERROR */ kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, FALSE); @@ -3129,15 +3131,21 @@ * by the lock flag set via `kbdc_lock()' */ splx(s); +#endif - send_kbd_command_and_data(sc_kbdc, command, data); + if (send_kbd_command_and_data(sc_kbdc, command, data) != KBD_ACK) + send_kbd_command(sc_kbdc, KBDC_ENABLE_KBD); +#if 0 /* restore the interrupts */ if (!set_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc, kbdc_get_device_mask(sc_kbdc), c & (KBD_KBD_CONTROL_BITS | KBD_AUX_CONTROL_BITS))) { /* CONTROLLER ERROR */ } +#else + splx(s); +#endif kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, FALSE); } From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 23:42:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA25760 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA25752; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:42:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from well.com (spidaman@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA14067; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:41:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:41:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Kallen To: Kazutaka YOKOTA cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Dell Latitude) psm0/sc0 conflicts killing X? In-Reply-To: <199703280657.PAA29688@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sir, you are very correct: /kernel: sc0: enabling tty intr. (set_keyboard) /kernel: sc0: about to send command and data (set_keyboard) /kernel: sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) /kernel: sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) /kernel: sc0: command:f3 data:0 ret:fa (set_keybard) /kernel: sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) and, most importantly: your patch appears to have worked - I'm happily running X again w/o difficulty for the past few minutes, it looks fine. Please remind me to buy you dinner should you be traveling to San Francisco ;) Thanks again and best regards, Ian On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > > >Yes, I got almost the exact same messages, including > > sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) > > Now, may I assume you got the messages in the following order, the > return code was "fa" ("zz" in the fifth line) and the keyboard did NOT > freeze? > > sc0: enabling tty intr. (set_keyboard) > sc0: about to send command and data (set_keyboard) > sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) > sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) > sc0: command:xx data:yy ret:zz (set_keybard) > ~~ > sc0: kbdc is LOCKED!! (scintr) > > >well, if you have a fix, I'd be happy to test it for you :) Shall I > >revert to the original syscons.c or will patching it with the debugging > >stuff be OK? > > Please revert to the original syscons.c and apply the following patch. > It is known to work, that is, kbdcontrol can change key repeat rate > and the X server doesn't lock up the keyboard. > > This patch doesn't generate debug messages, so it will be more > suitable for daily use than the previous one. > > Kazu > > --- syscons.c-dist Mon Mar 3 10:09:00 1997 > +++ syscons.c Mon Mar 17 08:02:35 1997 > @@ -3110,11 +3111,12 @@ > > /* disable the keyboard and mouse interrupt */ > s = spltty(); > +#if 0 > c = get_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc); > if ((c == -1) > || !set_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc, > kbdc_get_device_mask(sc_kbdc), > - KBD_ENABLE_KBD_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_KBD_INT > + KBD_DISABLE_KBD_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_KBD_INT > | KBD_DISABLE_AUX_PORT | KBD_DISABLE_AUX_INT)) { > /* CONTROLLER ERROR */ > kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, FALSE); > @@ -3129,15 +3131,21 @@ > * by the lock flag set via `kbdc_lock()' > */ > splx(s); > +#endif > > - send_kbd_command_and_data(sc_kbdc, command, data); > + if (send_kbd_command_and_data(sc_kbdc, command, data) != KBD_ACK) > + send_kbd_command(sc_kbdc, KBDC_ENABLE_KBD); > > +#if 0 > /* restore the interrupts */ > if (!set_controller_command_byte(sc_kbdc, > kbdc_get_device_mask(sc_kbdc), > c & (KBD_KBD_CONTROL_BITS | KBD_AUX_CONTROL_BITS))) { > /* CONTROLLER ERROR */ > } > +#else > + splx(s); > +#endif > kbdc_lock(sc_kbdc, FALSE); > } > > > > > > > The next interface will not be another desktop metaphor.... Ian Kallen .... http://www.well.com/user/spidaman/ ....the revolution will not be televised. ===== TO RECEIVE MY PGP KEY, SEND MAIL TO spidey-pgp-info@well.com ======= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 27 23:52:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA26143 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pf1.phil.uni-sb.de (root@pf1.phil.uni-sb.de [134.96.82.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26129; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:52:33 -0800 (PST) From: mail@mkljk.com Received: from ha1.ntr.net (ha1.ntr.net [206.112.0.10]) by pf1.phil.uni-sb.de (8.8.5/8.8.5/961001chris) with ESMTP id IAA05717; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:50:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.ntr.net (ACCS-AS38-DP14.ATLN.grid.net [206.80.179.126]) by ha1.ntr.net (NTR*NET 2.1.0) with SMTP id CAA00666; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 02:46:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailhost.mkljk.com (alt.mkljk.com (202.8.92.33)) by mkljk.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA01423 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 02:22:12 -0600 (EST) To: mail@mkljk.com Message-ID: <801496278473.HHG25220@mkljk.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 97 02:22:12 EST Subject: Mutual Link Proposal Reply-To: mail@mkljk.com X-PMFLAGS: 128 0 X-UIDL: 4992584441l30uhg3h250lbn362f2d4t Comments: Authenticated sender is Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, my name is Guy W. Rochefort, President of Dino Jump International. I found your address through YAHOO. Dino Jump International are specialists in manufacturing and distribution of Interactive Inflatables worldwide. My lines have been featured in Walt Disney productions, NFL shows, and NBA events. Our product lines include moonwalkers, bouncehouses, and castles. I am interested in mutual links on our respective webpages beneficial to both our businesses. Additionally, I am interested in opening dialog on mutual beneficial business dealings as far as wholesale/retail efforts for manufactured products from my factory and/or resale distribution at competitive pricing. Please come visit my site at http://www.dinojump.com or email sales1@dinojump.com or call me at 1-800-570-3466 or 619-754-5186. If this email is intrusive I apologize and you will not hear further from me. Thank you again and I am looking forward to doing business with you. Guy From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 03:12:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA04739 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ami.tom.computerworks.net (root@AMI.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.95.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA04734 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from bonkers.taronga.com by ami.tom.computerworks.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0wAZZi-0021WdC; Fri, 28 Mar 97 06:12 EST Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA02883; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:13:39 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:13:39 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199703281113.FAA02883@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Java binary support in FreeBSD ... Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: References: <13303.857054625@time.cdrom.com> <199702271553.KAA01146@dyson.iquest.net>,<199702271553.KAA01146@dyson.iquest.net> Organization: none Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article you write: >Geeze, why didn't they implement a ``script is on fd 0'' feature. Good idea, but how about making it fd3 so you can still use it as a filter? (in Version 6 all scripts were run from fd0 and you couldn't pipe to them. it reeked) You could always brand Java scripts by prepending them with: #!/usr/local/bin/javakludge Then have javakludge do a "dd" to strip off the header and put the rest in a tempfile, then pass the rest to java. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 04:18:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA07560 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA07535 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:18:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 7:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com ([144.54.57.34]) by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08333; Fri, 28 Mar 97 07:17:02 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA10312; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:17:14 -0500 Message-Id: <19970328071714.07896@ct.picker.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:17:14 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Typh0on@concentric.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coping Files From MS-DOS to a BSD Partitian? References: <3331D3E6.3D12@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65 In-Reply-To: <3331D3E6.3D12@concentric.net>; from Richard J. Linane on Thu, Mar 20, 1997 at 07:18:46PM -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard J. Linane: |I have an unsupported CD-ROM Drive. | |I would like to install some of the programs in the Packages |Distribution. | |The only choice I have to install from as a source is a DOS Partitian or |from alot of floppies. | |I think it might intail the mounting of the MS-DOS partitian on the same |drive. |Do I need to mount the partitian to do this and if so how? Check out the handbook: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook.html in particular the MS-DOS tips section: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook19.html#21 Randall From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 05:37:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA10533 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:37:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (root@Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA [132.206.78.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10528 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:37:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA13593; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:37:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:37:19 -0500 (EST) From: der Mouse Message-Id: <199703281337.IAA13593@Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> To: cgd@cs.cmu.edu, darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Given that the various FAT formats aren't really related, it seems >>> like a bad idea to try to wedge them into normal 'restore' (or >>> 'dump,' for that matter). >> I wonder if gtar's facilities for doing incremental dumps aren't >> more suitable to dumping FAT file systems than dump is... > I'm deliberately avoiding tar/cpio for the following reasons: > * each writes individual files to tape (less efficient on some tape > media, not to mention slower) I have no clue what you're talking about here, at least with respect to tar. A tar tape is a stream of 512-byte blocks, reblocked depending on the blocking factor, typically reblocked to 10K blocks. This is true regardless of where file boundaries fall. > * neither provides interactive restoration (restore if) This is a valid point, though some versions of tar provide a mode that asks for user confirmation for every operation, which can be looked on as a sort of poor-man's version of interactive restore. der Mouse mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 06:53:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA12886 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12879 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.lan.awfulhak.org [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17906; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:29:34 GMT Message-Id: <199703281429.OAA17906@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: joed@sioux (Joe Diehl) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: userlevel ppp in 2.2.1 make failed In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:47:49 CST." <199703270847.CAA20268@cherokee.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:29:33 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Greetings, > > I just spent the last few hours upgrading my machine from 2.2-BETA to > 2.2.1R... The upgrade went fairly smoothly, just waiting for my > new kernel to finish before I call it quits for the night... > > While trying to recompile iijppp under 2.2.1-RELEASE, the make > dies complaining of not knowing how to make uucplock.c (which doesn't > exist in the iijppp source tree). Just to be sure I was dealing with > a correct source tree, I rm -rfed the usr.sbin src tree and reinstalled > it from scratch... The problem remained. > > Any thoughts on this problem? > > Please CC: any replies directly back to me, as I will be unable to receive > list traffic until I can get iijppp recompiled. > > Thanks > > --- > Joe Diehl > KSU Dept. of Telecommunications This file is found in ../../sbin/startslip (as per the .PATH bit of the Makefile). I'm gonna move this to libutil sometime soon. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 06:53:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA12919 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12903 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.lan.awfulhak.org [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18203; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:34:46 GMT Message-Id: <199703281434.OAA18203@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Developer cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with PPP In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:10:33 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:34:46 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm having a problem with the user side 'ppp' program. > > Ive connected it up to a dialup server and logged in, everything seems to > be okay but the machine seems to loose all the packets it sends, althought > it recieves packets according to tcpdump. > > The strange thing is also that 'route get default' hangs for ages before > returning tun0?? > > Any help would be great. > > Thanks in advance. > > Trefor S> Sounds like a routing thing. What does netstat -rn say ? -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 06:58:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA13170 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13164 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.lan.awfulhak.org [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19061 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:58:16 GMT Message-Id: <199703281458.OAA19061@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Backspace = ^H Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:58:16 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I give, nothing will change. We can't even agree to make things consistent. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:00:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA17347 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA17340 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 25609 on Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:00:10 +0100; id RAA25609 efrom: marc@nietzsche.bowtie.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06713; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:57:46 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199703281557.QAA06713@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: "Daniel M. Eischen" cc: jdp@austin.polstra.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils In-reply-to: deischen's message of Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:00:46 -0600. <199703280100.TAA07336@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:57:46 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I also noted that another recognized target is i386-unknown-freebsdelf > > > which JDP added support for. > > > > That one works fine, but it's for playing around with ELF rather than > > building real FreeBSD binaries. > > Hmm. What's the status of our ELF support? Can I just use the > ELF version and make a cross development system for FreeBSD > ELF binaries? I assume we're going to have native ELF support > some time in the future, so if there was a patch kit to 2.2.1 > (or even 3.0) I could live with that. > > > If you want a cross environment to FreeBSD, your easiest path is > > probably to port the old assembler and linker from our /usr/src tree. > > Will try to do that. > On a related note, can anyone tell me if I can use objcopy to change Linux (static) elf libraries into FreeBSD libraries? If not, is there an alternative? Regards, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:12:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA17762 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [206.222.77.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA17757 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA19654; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:04:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:04:51 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Mayo To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MSWord docs... In-Reply-To: <199703271713.KAA01589@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Nothing public. You can obtain documentation under NDA from > > > Microsoft, provided you agree not to implement anything useful > > > with the information (like a word processor). > > They may also have a patent on the encryption algorithm (a friend > of mine, while employed at Word Perfect, actually cracked their > encryption). In version 4.x, and 6.x the "encryption" was an XOR of the file with the given password :-) So if you had an image in your word document, with enough zeros in it, the password would be all over the place in the "encrypted" file :-) Quite rediculous. -Mark > > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com RingZero Comp. http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GCS/O d- s+ a-- C++ UB+++$ P+ L- E--- W++ N+ K- w++(---) O- M- !V PS+ PE Y++ PGP+ t !5 X+ R- tv b++ DI+ D++ G+ e+(*) h--- r++ y+(+++) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Typically, I don't use JAVA -- I think that strong typing is for weak minds (and lazy compiler/interpreter writers)." -- Terry Lambert From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:22:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18320 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18302; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0wAePF-0001Lt-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:21:33 -0700 To: "John S. Dyson" Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? Cc: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra), smc@servtech.com, dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:01:27 EST." <199703280601.BAA14311@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199703280601.BAA14311@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:21:32 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199703280601.BAA14311@dyson.iquest.net> "John S. Dyson" writes: : > : > Does this give you something to chew on, John Dyson? : > : That is exactly the kind of info that is useful for : investigation, John Polstra :-). Are both of you from Grover's Mill New Jersey by chance? "John" Losh From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:23:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18434 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18417 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA03342; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:07:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703281607.JAA03342@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils To: marc@bowtie.nl (Marc van Kempen) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:07:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org, jdp@austin.polstra.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703281557.QAA06713@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> from "Marc van Kempen" at Mar 28, 97 04:57:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On a related note, can anyone tell me if I can use objcopy to > change Linux (static) elf libraries into FreeBSD libraries? Not if the linraries implement system calls, or call system calls and depend on machine specific behaviour differences, or access devices and depend on driver specific behaviour which differes between the OS's. > If not, is there an alternative? Create a Linux cross environment and use them as Linux libraries, running the binaries under the Linux ABI. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:26:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18591 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:26:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18583 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA03361; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:10:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703281610.JAA03361@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils To: deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org (Daniel M. Eischen) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:10:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: jdp@austin.polstra.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703280100.TAA07336@iworks.InterWorks.org> from "Daniel M. Eischen" at Mar 27, 97 07:00:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I also noted that another recognized target is i386-unknown-freebsdelf > > > which JDP added support for. > > > > That one works fine, but it's for playing around with ELF rather than > > building real FreeBSD binaries. > > Hmm. What's the status of our ELF support? Can I just use the > ELF version and make a cross development system for FreeBSD > ELF binaries? I assume we're going to have native ELF support > some time in the future, so if there was a patch kit to 2.2.1 > (or even 3.0) I could live with that. If you have the FreeBSD ELF ABI in your kernel, or load it as a module, you can use John Polstra's ELFKit to produce ELF binaries for most normal files. You can not produce a kernel this way, you can't produce some of the boot files this way, or anything else that depends on the old assembler behaviour. > > If you want a cross environment to FreeBSD, your easiest path is > > probably to port the old assembler and linker from our /usr/src tree. > > Will try to do that. Jeffrey Hsu had done this at one point (it was Jeffrey Hsu who wrote the original PIC support for GCC that enabled BSD's LKM and shared library code). You might want to contact him (hsu@freebsd.org). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:28:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18731 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18719; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA03372; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:12:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703281612.JAA03372@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? To: smc@servtech.com (Shawn Carey) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:12:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: stesin@gu.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, dyson@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <333B2338.41C67EA6@servtech.com> from "Shawn Carey" at Mar 27, 97 08:47:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, it seems to me we have two interesting data points regarding this: > > 1) Statically linked binaries are not affected by this phenomenon. > 2) Binaries residing on R/O filesystems are not affected either. > > Does anyone know anything else? >From the decriptions so far, it's a date stamp on write after a copy-on-write has taken place, pretty obviously. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:28:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18769 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18763 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:28:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from dolphin.inna.net (jamie@dolphin.inna.net [206.151.66.2]) by tyger.inna.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA28746 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:35:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:34:41 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Mutual Link Proposal (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Looks like someone is yet again using the lists for spam. Jamie Bowden Network Administrator, TBI Ltd. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by tyger.inna.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA20032; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:16:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id DAA00864; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:05:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA26176; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:52:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA26143 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pf1.phil.uni-sb.de (root@pf1.phil.uni-sb.de [134.96.82.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26129; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:52:33 -0800 (PST) From: mail@mkljk.com Received: from ha1.ntr.net (ha1.ntr.net [206.112.0.10]) by pf1.phil.uni-sb.de (8.8.5/8.8.5/961001chris) with ESMTP id IAA05717; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:50:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail.ntr.net (ACCS-AS38-DP14.ATLN.grid.net [206.80.179.126]) by ha1.ntr.net (NTR*NET 2.1.0) with SMTP id CAA00666; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 02:46:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailhost.mkljk.com (alt.mkljk.com (202.8.92.33)) by mkljk.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA01423 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 02:22:12 -0600 (EST) To: mail@mkljk.com Message-ID: <801496278473.HHG25220@mkljk.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 97 02:22:12 EST Subject: Mutual Link Proposal Reply-To: mail@mkljk.com X-PMFLAGS: 128 0 X-UIDL: 4992584441l30uhg3h250lbn362f2d4t Comments: Authenticated sender is Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:32:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18975 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18970 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA03392; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:17:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703281617.JAA03392@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Java binary support in FreeBSD ... To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:17:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199703281113.FAA02883@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 28, 97 05:13:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In article you write: > >Geeze, why didn't they implement a ``script is on fd 0'' feature. > > Good idea, but how about making it fd3 so you can still use it as a filter? I thought there was "script on /proc/..." already. 8-|. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:40:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA19464 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:40:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19441; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA16977; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:40:36 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:40:36 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199703281640.JAA16977@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Ian Kallen Cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Dell Latitude) psm0/sc0 conflicts killing X? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.14 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't know what else changed when I went from 2.2-GAMMA w/o PAO (Used > the zp drivers from the 3c589) to 2.2.1-RELEASE... The queing patches were added to the console driver. And, it works fine on my 2.2 desktop box and on my laptop, both running Xig's package. The queing patches were necessary to avoid lockups on my desktop using Xig's server, hence the reason I pushed for them in the release. > I'm on a Dell XPi p100 > and Xinside's X server was doing fine w/ 800X600 @256 but since I ran the > upgrade and applied the PAO patches, I've had to explicitly re-enable psm0 > by booting w/ -c (other X won't start at all) but the keyboard is dead > once I'm in X. It works fine out of X? > I tried reinstalling Xinside but that made no > differnce. Any comments or suggestions (if a look @ my kernel config > is needed to comment on it, I'll send that along as well) appreciated! Hmm, can you send me your config file in private email, and I'll compare it to mine at work? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:42:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA19617 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:42:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA19607 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:42:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:41:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com ([144.54.57.34]) by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15873; Fri, 28 Mar 97 11:41:45 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA12181; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:41:43 -0500 Message-Id: <19970328114142.41544@ct.picker.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:41:42 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: "Miller, Paul SGT" Cc: "'hackers'" Subject: Re: XKeysymDB References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65 In-Reply-To: ; from Miller, Paul SGT on Wed, Mar 26, 1997 at 10:09:00AM -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Miller, Paul SGT: |I am having difficulties with XKeysymDB either being located or I need a |newer version of the file. I'm running netscape v3.01 (the only version |available for UNIX). I have place XKeysymDB in all the necessary |directories. It seems to still have trouble. I am hoping someone would |be willing to help out a joe (military). Is there another fix? Try setting the environment variable XKEYSYMDB (in your .cshrc or .profile) to point to the file. E.g.: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB Randall Hopper From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 08:48:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA20022 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20017 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id BAA17778; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:37:18 +0900 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:37:18 +0900 Message-Id: <199703281637.BAA17778@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: I18N Japanese/English boot.flp for 2.2.1-RELEASE From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Today I released the first public version of I18N Japanese/English boot.flp for 2.2.1-RELEASE. ftp://jaz.jp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-jp/I18N-flp/2.2.1-RELEASE/boot.flp ftp://jaz.jp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-jp/I18N-flp/2.2.1-RELEASE/bootpao.flp MD5 (boot.flp) = 6ef7a84de3ba580524a8c01a61ffb98d MD5 (bootpao.flp) = 917d384e83d7ebd849306610f0c2e211 These boot.flp's have following features. o Almost all messages and help files are translated into Japanese. o No English messages and help files are removed. If you select English mode, it performs just as the original boot.flp. o No special hardware is required to display Japanese text. o Ready to incorporate other languages (ex. Chinese, Korean, and other Asian and European languages), if there are tranlation volunteers :-). All messages of sysinstall are added tags, and externalized into the "messages.lang" files. Contact me if you're interested in this translation project. o Select languages from the first menu of sysinstall. o Only one 2HD floppy! (boot.flp has spare space to incorporate another language, but bootpao.flp has no spare space.. sorry) o /usr/sbin/tzsetup is incorporated into sysinstall, and is localized by shareing the multilingual support. o bootpao.flp have PAO patch (about 550KB) inside the floppy and it can compile and install PC-card kernel from sysinstall configuration menu. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 09:06:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20999 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:06:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20990 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:06:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 3057 on Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:05:18 +0100; id SAA03057 efrom: marc@nietzsche.bowtie.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08349; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:04:08 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199703281704.SAA08349@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org, jdp@austin.polstra.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils In-reply-to: terry's message of Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:07:31 -0700. <199703281607.JAA03342@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:04:07 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On a related note, can anyone tell me if I can use objcopy to > > change Linux (static) elf libraries into FreeBSD libraries? > > Not if the linraries implement system calls, or call system calls > and depend on machine specific behaviour differences, or access > devices and depend on driver specific behaviour which differes > between the OS's. > I don't think so, but maybe it depends on threading. It's the library for the solid server database server (http://www.solidtech.com) But you're saying that it should be possible? I tried it once on an Irix (I didn't have enough diskspace on my FreeBSD box at the time to build the binutils), but I couldn't get it to work on that platform. > > > If not, is there an alternative? > > Create a Linux cross environment and use them as Linux libraries, > running the binaries under the Linux ABI. > > I did this already and this works fine, but I can't debug the resulting binary, because the ptrace function is not supported in the emulator, I guess this is not trivial to add? So now I'm back to the good old days of debugging with printf's :( Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 09:47:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA23241 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23236 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id LAA12697; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:46:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703281746.LAA12697@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:46:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jdp@austin.polstra.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hmm. What's the status of our ELF support? Can I just use the > > ELF version and make a cross development system for FreeBSD > > ELF binaries? I assume we're going to have native ELF support > > some time in the future, so if there was a patch kit to 2.2.1 > > (or even 3.0) I could live with that. > > If you have the FreeBSD ELF ABI in your kernel, or load it as a > module, you can use John Polstra's ELFKit to produce ELF binaries > for most normal files. Is the ability to execute native FreeBSD ELF in -current or 2.2.1-RELEASE? Or do I need the ELF kit for that? I know I can run Linux ELF binaries, so I assume native ELF support is there. I can build GNAT under Solaris as ELF for FreeBSD, so I am just concerned with running it as ELF under FreeBSD for right now. Once it runs as ELF under FreeBSD, I should be able to rebuild it as a.out, right? > Jeffrey Hsu had done this at one point (it was Jeffrey Hsu who wrote > the original PIC support for GCC that enabled BSD's LKM and shared > library code). You might want to contact him (hsu@freebsd.org). This seems like a better option right now. Thanks for the pointer. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 09:51:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA23494 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA23487 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:51:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA24604 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:51:37 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22844; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:22:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970328182227.RF19397@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:22:27 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: userlevel ppp in 2.2.1 make failed References: <199703270847.CAA20268@cherokee.> <199703281429.OAA17906@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703281429.OAA17906@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>; from Brian Somers on Mar 28, 1997 14:29:33 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Somers wrote: > This file is found in ../../sbin/startslip (as per the .PATH bit of the > Makefile). I'm gonna move this to libutil sometime soon. Yeah! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 10:14:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA24645 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:14:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from aries.bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24640 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:14:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by aries.bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA01645 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:11:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:11:28 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: C++ Code Help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am writing my first FreeBSD C++ program. :-) (I am not very good at C or C++) anyway, I have a few stupid questions. History: (I know I could have done it in perl, but for Hysterical reasons, it had to be in C++) I am automating our User Database. We get a list of paid users each quarter from our registrar. So I am taking this list and comparing it to the password database real name field and creating, disabling, or just reporting the users depending on whether they have paid for each quarter. So, My questions: I don't know how to convert integer numbers, such as "1500" to an ascii string. How do I rebuild the user database after I have made all the changes to master.password? That will do it for now. P.S. Anyone willing to give me a lesson in C++, in otherwords anyone want to review my code and tell me how stupid it is in nice words. :-) Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Technician I (509)-766-8873 Big Bend Community College Internet Instructor FreeBSD Book Project: http://vinyl.quickweb.com/~chrisc/book.html Disclaimer: Even Though it has My Name on it, Doesn't mean I said it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 10:35:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25597 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:35:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25589; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:35:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199703281835.KAA25589@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Mutual Link Proposal (fwd) To: jamie@inna.net (Jamie Bowden) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:35:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jamie Bowden" at Mar 28, 97 11:34:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jamie Bowden wrote: > > Looks like someone is yet again using the lists for spam. > yes, both mkljk.com and dinojump.com have been banished from the lists. interactive inflatibles! what's next phone sex via irc or iphone? multicast? jmb From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 10:46:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA26349 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA26341 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <17229(3)>; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:46:13 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177486>; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:46:07 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:02:34 PST." <199703271002.TAA29041@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:46:01 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <97Mar28.104607pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) wrote: >If 2.2.1-RELEASE does not permit no-password account But it does. The box that I installed last week still doesn't have a root password. Just hit "enter" at the password prompt. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 11:53:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA29505 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA29467 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA27221 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:52:45 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA23221; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:50:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970328205031.EH34214@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:50:31 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ Code Help References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Coleman on Mar 28, 1997 10:11:28 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris Coleman wrote: > I am writing my first FreeBSD C++ program. :-) You picked a very poor example as a starting point. ;-) > I don't know how to convert integer numbers, such as "1500" to an > ascii string. Create a strstream object, and use the << operator. > How do I rebuild the user database after I have made all the > changes to master.password? By executing pwd_mkdb(8). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 12:34:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA01793 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:34:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01787; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04175; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:34:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703282034.MAA04175@austin.polstra.com> To: Shawn Carey cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:46:57 EST." <333B5B51.41C67EA6@servtech.com> References: <199703270427.XAA04344@dyson.iquest.net> <333AA089.41C67EA6@servtech.com> <199703280313.TAA28286@austin.polstra.com> <333B5B51.41C67EA6@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:34:20 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If I run the same executable under GDB, it runs for 10 seconds at the > most and then GDB kills it before reporting "Process terminated due to > text file modification". No breakpoints, no nuthin. Not even a > .gdbinit. > > Now, if I link with -static, the exectuable retains its timestamp, even > whe run under GDB, and GDB lets it run peacefully. It's worth noting that there are hooks between gdb and the dynamic linker. The dynamic linker can tell whether the program is being run under the debugger or not. If it is being run under the debugger, then the dynamic linker itself sets a breakpoint in the executable, to allow gdb to take control just after the shared libraries have all been loaded. So even if you don't explicitly set a breakpoint, one gets set anyway. > Any chance we have two unrelated but similar problems? Sure. > When I run my executable (linked against shared libs) directly from > the shell (GDB not involved), the timestamp on the file changes > every time, though it appears to run normally. I suppose it is possible that (due to an error in "ld" perhaps) your particular executable has the flag set that tells the dynamic linker the program is running under gdb. In that case, the dynamic linker would again set a breakpoint. Setting breakpoints shouldn't change the modtime of the file, of course, since it's mapped copy-on-write. So there still seems to be some sort of VM problem, regardless of these other considerations. John P. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 12:41:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA02241 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from netrover.com (ottawa6.netrover.com [205.209.19.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02232 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:41:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brianc@localhost) by netrover.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06662; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:40:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:40:20 -0500 From: brianc@netrover.com (Brian Campbell) To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE References: <199703271002.TAA29041@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> <97Mar28.104607pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-to: brianc@pobox.com In-Reply-To: <97Mar28.104607pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com>; from Bill Fenner on Mar 28, 1997 10:46:01 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Fenner writes: > hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) wrote: > >If 2.2.1-RELEASE does not permit no-password account > > But it does. The box that I installed last week still doesn't have a root > password. Just hit "enter" at the password prompt. Perhaps hosokawa and myself are the only two experiencing the problem, but two points. Firstly, I don't think 2.2.1-RELEASE was out last week, and secondly by "no-password account" I meant accounts for which you won't even be prompted for a password. The third point, , is that after installing bin.*, the root account doesn't require a password (i.e. the passwd field is empty, as opposed to an encrypted version of a newline), and whatever is broken with my 2.2.1R won't let anyone with such a passwd entry login. I had to boot -s. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 12:45:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA02490 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02484 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:45:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA03736; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:29:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703282029.NAA03736@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils To: marc@bowtie.nl (Marc van Kempen) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:29:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org, jdp@austin.polstra.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703281704.SAA08349@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> from "Marc van Kempen" at Mar 28, 97 06:04:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't think so, but maybe it depends on threading. It's the > library for the solid server database server > (http://www.solidtech.com) > But you're saying that it should be possible? I tried it once > on an Irix (I didn't have enough diskspace on my FreeBSD box > at the time to build the binutils), but I couldn't get it to > work on that platform. Irix for an x86?!?!? Or x86 cross-tools on Irix? ELF does not necessarily mean x86 compatability. > I did this already and this works fine, but I can't debug the > resulting binary, because the ptrace function is not supported > in the emulator, I guess this is not trivial to add? You would have to ask soren or sef. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 12:48:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA02649 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:48:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02639; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:48:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA03758; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:32:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703282032.NAA03758@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:32:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, jdp@polstra.com, smc@servtech.com, dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Warner Losh" at Mar 28, 97 09:21:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : > Does this give you something to chew on, John Dyson? > : > : That is exactly the kind of info that is useful for > : investigation, John Polstra :-). > > Are both of you from Grover's Mill New Jersey by chance? > > "John" Losh "And you must be John SMALLberries...." Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 12:51:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA02841 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02836 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA03777; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:37:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703282037.NAA03777@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils To: deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org (Daniel M. Eischen) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:37:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jdp@austin.polstra.com In-Reply-To: <199703281746.LAA12697@iworks.InterWorks.org> from "Daniel M. Eischen" at Mar 28, 97 11:46:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is the ability to execute native FreeBSD ELF in -current or > 2.2.1-RELEASE? Or do I need the ELF kit for that? I know I > can run Linux ELF binaries, so I assume native ELF support > is there. The ABI module is in -current. I don't know about 2.2.1 release, since I haven't installed it. > I can build GNAT under Solaris as ELF for FreeBSD, so I am > just concerned with running it as ELF under FreeBSD for right > now. Once it runs as ELF under FreeBSD, I should be able > to rebuild it as a.out, right? That's the theory. It depends on what assmebler and linker features it requires. PS: I thought GNAT for a.out was already in ports... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 13:10:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA03857 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:10:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03852 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:10:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id PAA13101; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:10:36 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703282110.PAA13101@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:10:36 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I can build GNAT under Solaris as ELF for FreeBSD, so I am > > just concerned with running it as ELF under FreeBSD for right > > now. Once it runs as ELF under FreeBSD, I should be able > > to rebuild it as a.out, right? > > That's the theory. It depends on what assmebler and linker > features it requires. > > PS: I thought GNAT for a.out was already in ports... It's version 2.03 (really old, and doesn't support tasking). GNAT only guarantees that it will build with the previous (immediately previous) version of GNAT. They're at version 3.09 now, and that would mean rebuilding over 13 versions of GNAT with different versions of gcc. We stopped tracking GNAT because they moved to gcc 2.7.x at or around GNAT 2.05/6. Not all versions of GNAT are still available either. Not having GNAT is one of the big roadblocks in our making heavier use out of FreeBSD. I _really_ want to get this built. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 13:22:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA04494 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA04484 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:22:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16898(4)>; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:21:34 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177486>; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:21:27 -0800 To: brianc@pobox.com cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 97 12:40:20 PST." Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:21:21 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <97Mar28.132127pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant, the box I installed last week and then fetched the source for the 2.2.1-R login and built and installed this morning to test this problem. root::0:0::0:0:Charlie &:/root:/bin/csh Before installing the new login from 2.2.1, I was able to log in by just typing "root", and it didn't ask me for a password. Now, I can log in by typing "root" and then hitting enter at the password prompt. However, my environment clearly doesn't reflect a 2.2.1-R installation, even though I built and installed the 2.2.1-R /usr/bin/login , so I'll shut up now. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 13:57:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06423 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA06386 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 7771 on Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:55:10 +0100; id WAA07771 efrom: marc@nietzsche.bowtie.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: (from marc@localhost) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.8.2/8.7.3) id WAA10942; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:55:00 +0100 (MET) From: Marc van Kempen Message-Id: <199703282155.WAA10942@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils In-Reply-To: <199703282029.NAA03736@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mar 28, 97 01:29:59 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:55:00 +0100 (MET) Cc: marc@bowtie.nl, terry@lambert.org, deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org, jdp@austin.polstra.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't think so, but maybe it depends on threading. It's the > > library for the solid server database server > > (http://www.solidtech.com) > > But you're saying that it should be possible? I tried it once > > on an Irix (I didn't have enough diskspace on my FreeBSD box > > at the time to build the binutils), but I couldn't get it to > > work on that platform. > > Irix for an x86?!?!? > > Or x86 cross-tools on Irix? > That's it, you can configure support for different formats, no matter what platform you compile it on. > ELF does not necessarily mean x86 compatability. > > > I did this already and this works fine, but I can't debug the > > resulting binary, because the ptrace function is not supported > > in the emulator, I guess this is not trivial to add? > > You would have to ask soren or sef. > I'll try that, thanks. Marc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 13:57:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06459 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06453 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA06785; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:57:11 -0800 (PST) To: brianc@pobox.com cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:40:20 EST." Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:57:11 -0800 Message-ID: <6781.859586231@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps hosokawa and myself are the only two experiencing the problem, > but two points. Firstly, I don't think 2.2.1-RELEASE was out last week, > and secondly by "no-password account" I meant accounts for which you > won't even be prompted for a password. The problem is definitely there. I've changed the boot floppy so that for novice installation it *demands* that you set the root password, and it's this boot floppy that I'll put on the CDROM, but the Express/Custom installation modes still leave you room to exit the installation without setting the root password and hanging yourself. Yes, failing to set the root password will indeed leave you unable to log in. This was one last-minute intro into 2.1.1 which I very much regret. :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 14:27:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07908 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:27:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07899 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:27:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA07586; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:26:52 -0800 (PST) To: Bill Fenner cc: brianc@pobox.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:21:21 PST." <97Mar28.132127pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:26:52 -0800 Message-ID: <7577.859588012@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > However, my environment clearly doesn't reflect a 2.2.1-R installation, > even though I built and installed the 2.2.1-R /usr/bin/login , so I'll > shut up now. No, your environment *does* reflect a 2.2.1R installation. What it doesn't reflect are a 2.2.0R installation (which you had before) or a RELENG_2_2 installation, both of which have this problem fixed. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 14:53:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA09311 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:53:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA09293 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16684(3)>; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:52:32 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177486>; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:52:18 -0800 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Bill Fenner , brianc@pobox.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 97 14:26:52 PST." <7577.859588012@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:52:07 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <97Mar28.145218pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My experiences: login.c 1.12 (RELENG_2_2_0_RELEASE): login: root doesn't ask for password and logs me in login.c 1.12.2.2 (RELENG_2_2_1_RELEASE): login: root Password: (hit enter) logs me in login.c 1.12.2.3 (latest on RELENG_2_2): login: root doesn't ask for password and logs me in Presumably, the reason that rev 1.12.2.2 works for me and not for anybody else is that I have the DES distribution installed. I changed the symlinks to point to libscrypt instead of libdescrypt and now I get "Login incorrect" for the RELENG_2_2_1_RELEASE login. So, I guess a potential workaround is to install DES. (If you can manage to do that without logging in =) Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 14:56:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA09539 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:56:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09530 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:56:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA19408; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:55:56 -0800 (PST) To: Bill Fenner cc: brianc@pobox.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No password account on 2.2.1-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:52:07 PST." <97Mar28.145218pst.177486@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:55:56 -0800 Message-ID: <19403.859589756@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, I guess a potential workaround is to install DES. (If you can manage > to do that without logging in =) That's easily done as an FTP component install (and nothing says you can't do an "upgrade" which involves the custom selection of only the DES bits). For the CDROM people, it'll be a bit more of a pain unless I put the DES bits back on it (which our lawyer says we're currently legally allowed to do, so hey - who am I to argue?). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 15:14:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10618 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cinna.ultra.net (cinna.ultra.net [199.232.56.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10597 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dominus.ultranet.com (dominus.ultranet.com [199.232.59.246]) by cinna.ultra.net (8.8.5/ult1.04) with SMTP id SAA10227 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by dominus.ultranet.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC3BA3.6FFD23A0@dominus.ultranet.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:11:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01BC3BA3.6FFD23A0@dominus.ultranet.com> From: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" To: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: C++ Code in Kernel Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:10:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk maybe its just that I'm taking a c++ class now, but I'm cusious as to the pro's and con's on writing kernel source in c++. I haven't seen nor heard on this happening on FreeBSD [but then my travels haven't been that wide] I assume that new and delete would have to be overloaded, and that there would have to be some magic with respect to normal c calling c++ code [name mangling] Has this come up before? - g From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 15:30:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12059 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from turing.ukonline.co.uk (turing.ukonline.co.uk [194.6.116.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA12037 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:30:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (lon1-37.ukonline.co.uk [194.6.117.165]) by turing.ukonline.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA38270 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:29:27 GMT Message-ID: <333CC3FA.3878@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:31:45 -0800 From: Benn Horton Reply-To: b.horton@ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Core dump with xsm. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have recently installed 2.2.1-RELEASE and the X Session Manager is core dumping with a segmentation fault, error number 250. Also when running X I noticed that VSHM was not used. The manpages don't seem to have installed properly so I need to re-install them. I'm not sure which device file to use to mount my dos partition on wdc0. Alot of the commands I'm familiar with like lsdev, lssf,rmsf etc. are not available can I port them? And what commands can I use? I would like to obtain a Korn Shell too. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 15:52:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA13871 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA13859 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0wAlRJ-0001zK-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:52:09 -0700 To: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" Subject: Re: C++ Code in Kernel Cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:10:51 EST." <01BC3BA3.6FFD23A0@dominus.ultranet.com> References: <01BC3BA3.6FFD23A0@dominus.ultranet.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:52:09 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <01BC3BA3.6FFD23A0@dominus.ultranet.com> "Gregory D. Moncreaff" writes: : maybe its just that I'm taking a c++ class now, but I'm : cusious as to the pro's and con's on writing kernel source : in c++. I haven't seen nor heard on this happening on FreeBSD : [but then my travels haven't been that wide] : : I assume that new and delete would have to be overloaded, and : that there would have to be some magic with respect to normal c : calling c++ code [name mangling] : : Has this come up before? Uggg. Pro: You are using c++. Con: You are using c++. The biggest problem is getting static ctors called when your module is loaded, and the dtors called when it is unloaded. You'll also need to bring into the kernel the various support routines like new, delete, etc. You'll also have to be very careful with name mangling. Includes may be a problem, since I don't think they are all c++ clean. This definitely isn't supported :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 15:58:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14311 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14305 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:58:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA03417; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:58:21 -0800 (PST) To: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: C++ Code in Kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:10:51 EST." <01BC3BA3.6FFD23A0@dominus.ultranet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3409.859593499.1@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:58:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3410.859593500@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > maybe its just that I'm taking a c++ class now, but I'm > cusious as to the pro's and con's on writing kernel source > in c++. I haven't seen nor heard on this happening on FreeBSD > [but then my travels haven't been that wide] My understanding is that You Don't Wanna Do It. Linus tried it for awhile with Linux before he started to find places where the compiler was doing weird things to him, like putting virtual destructor table info on the stack as a side-effect of some operation while he, in an interrupt handler, was sort of wanting it NOT to do things like that. There are a lot of nice mechanisms which one could implement just as easily in straight C to far improve the structure of the kernel, I think. No need for a blunt instrument that big. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 16:28:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA16991 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16979 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:28:37 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA07343 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:27:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14402 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 29485 invoked by uid 110); 29 Mar 1997 00:25:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19970329002538.29483.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: C++ Code in Kernel In-Reply-To: from Warner Losh at "Mar 28, 97 04:52:09 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:25:38 +1100 (EST) Cc: moncrg@dominus.ma.ultranet.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <01BC3BA3.6FFD23A0@dominus.ultranet.com> "Gregory D. Moncreaff" writes: > : maybe its just that I'm taking a c++ class now, but I'm > : cusious as to the pro's and con's on writing kernel source > : in c++. I haven't seen nor heard on this happening on FreeBSD > : [but then my travels haven't been that wide] The c++ shine tends to off pretty quickly unless you have a object-oriented system that absolutely demands it (i.e GUI's). Predictable behavior in the kernel is not something you want to give up quickly. C++ is a porridge of a language and breaks the golden rule of cooking and language design; throwing everything that tastes nice into a pot, yields something that does not taste nice at all. Cheers, Julian. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 16:30:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA17287 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17275; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:30:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id LAA17704; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:30:29 +1100 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:30:29 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199703290030.LAA17704@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jdp@polstra.com, smc@servtech.com Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this? Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Setting breakpoints shouldn't change the modtime of the file, of course, >since it's mapped copy-on-write. So there still seems to be some sort >of VM problem, regardless of these other considerations. Setting breakpoints certainly changes a copy of the text, and for some reason vm_object_page_clean() writes to the file on the next sync. It seems to write the unaltered copy, but there is real disk traffic and the mtime and ctime are clobbered. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 16:40:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA17889 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from meatlover.ghg.net (meatlover.ghgcorp.com [206.29.116.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17879 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:40:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from hometown ([192.112.219.167]) by meatlover.ghg.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-18219) with SMTP id AAA9056 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:40:17 -0600 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jeff Bachtel" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:43:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: 2.2.2R Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970329004015.AAA9056@hometown> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have an idea when Walnut Creek will start distibuting 2.2.2R? (Not as snapshot) Regards, Jeff Bachtel From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 16:49:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA18544 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:49:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from popeye.remuda.com (fisbin.remuda.com [205.153.153.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA18516 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scotto@localhost) by popeye.remuda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA12150 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:46:22 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:46:22 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Overholser To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2.0-R and HylaFAX configure script Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been experiencing problems installing HylaFAX 4.0pl1 on a FreeBSD 2.2.0-R system. The configure /bin/sh script generates makefiles based on information it gathers about the system on which it is run. The problem is that configure does not work properly on 2.2.0-R. Fer instance, there are two functions defined called CheckForLibrary() and CheckForIncludeFile() that attempt to compile small bits of code. These functions are called to determine whether or not the system supports SGI RGB images (among other things). configure generates a log file which clearly shows the compiles failing. Somehow, configure thinks it succeeds. I've done some sanity checking on 2.1.7-R. Everything is just peachy. I've searched the HylaFAX archives as well as the FreeBSD archives. It doesn't appear that this issue is being discussed. I've reproduced it on two different 2.2.0-R systems. I'm not a shell script guru but this one looks okay to me. Is /bin/sh behaving strangely? Or, perhaps make? I've included snippets of the configure shell script and corresponding logfile below. Ideas? Suggestions? btw: the tiff library required for HylaFAX has a similar configure shell script that behaves the same way. thanks, -scotto ---------->%snip>%---------- CheckForLibrary() { f=$1; shift libs="$@"; cat>t.c<t.c runMake t "t:; ${CCOMPILER} ${ENVOPTS} -E t.c" } if [ "$LIBIMAGE" = auto ]; then if CheckForLibrary iopen -limage && CheckForIncludeFile gl/image.h; then Note "Looks like there is support for SGI RGB images." LIBIMAGE=yes else LIBIMAGE=no fi ---------->%snip>%---------- ---------->%snip>%---------- + eval set -x; make -f confMakefile t + set -x + make -f confMakefile t /usr/bin/gcc t.c -limage ld: -limage: no match *** Error code 1 Stop. + eval set -x; make -f confMakefile t + set -x + make -f confMakefile t /usr/bin/gcc -E t.c t.c:1: gl/image.h: No such file or directory # 1 "t.c" *** Error code 1 Stop. ---------->%snip>%---------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 17:29:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20951 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20946 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01574; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:29:17 -0800 (PST) To: "Jeff Bachtel" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.2R In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:43:26 GMT." <19970329004015.AAA9056@hometown> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:29:15 -0800 Message-ID: <1570.859598955@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone have an idea when Walnut Creek will start distibuting > 2.2.2R? (Not as snapshot) Do you mean 2.2.1R? In a couple of weeks, hopefully. A 2.2.2R, if one even occurs, is months off. There won't be any SNAPshots made on CD along the 2.2 branch either. The next scheduled SNAP is 3.0-9704XX-SNAP, where XX is TBD. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 17:34:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA21399 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:34:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from atg2.atgnet.com (root@atg2.atgnet.com [165.254.146.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21382 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:34:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ofdsk1.atgnet.com (ofdsk1.atgnet.com [165.254.146.21]) by atg2.atgnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA11767 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:34:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703290134.UAA11767@atg2.atgnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Moncef" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 21:02:23 +0000 Subject: FreeBSD installation Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm trying to install FreeBSD (2.1.6-RELEASE) over a LAN. But when he starts downloading files from the ftp server, I get the following message: /: write failed, file system is full NB: My HD is empty !!! Thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 18:00:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA23510 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23503 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from well.com (spidaman@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA06562 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:00:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:00:26 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Kallen To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: "Message Catalog System: corrupt file" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk That's the message I get whenever I su or start an X session. I'd been hoping it'd go ahead upon upgrading from 2.2-GAMMA to 2.2.1-RELEASE but alas, it persists. Nothing appears to be broken but I'd like to know what is generating these errors and, maybe even make 'em go away :) Ideas?? The next interface will not be another desktop metaphor.... Ian Kallen .... http://www.well.com/user/spidaman/ ....the revolution will not be televised. ===== TO RECEIVE MY PGP KEY, SEND MAIL TO spidey-pgp-info@well.com ======= From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 20:14:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA04504 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04491 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:14:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703290414.UAA04491@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA207428569; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:09:29 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? To: mouse@Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:09:28 +1100 (EDT) Cc: cgd@cs.cmu.edu, darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703281337.IAA13593@Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Mar 28, 97 08:37:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from der Mouse, sie said: > > >>> Given that the various FAT formats aren't really related, it seems > >>> like a bad idea to try to wedge them into normal 'restore' (or > >>> 'dump,' for that matter). > >> I wonder if gtar's facilities for doing incremental dumps aren't > >> more suitable to dumping FAT file systems than dump is... > > > I'm deliberately avoiding tar/cpio for the following reasons: > > > * each writes individual files to tape (less efficient on some tape > > media, not to mention slower) > > I have no clue what you're talking about here, at least with respect to > tar. A tar tape is a stream of 512-byte blocks, reblocked depending on > the blocking factor, typically reblocked to 10K blocks. This is true > regardless of where file boundaries fall. EOF markers being written to the tape, the lack of indexing and the resulting "awkwardness" of its use. If I recall correctly, on exabyte, EOF markers are "1MB" in size (although newer tape formats aren't quite so braindead). So more files on the tape means less space for real data. When ypu're backing up in excess of 100,000 files onto the one tape, it makes a difference. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 20:44:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA07914 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from hamby1 (hamby1.lightside.net [207.67.176.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07906 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:44:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by hamby1 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA00995; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:44:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:44:21 -0800 From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Message-Id: <199703290444.UAA00995@hamby1> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, terry@lambert.org, deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: m+3ElG2TiElxKZEGQP51qQ== Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org Fri Mar 28 20:23:38 1997 > Not having GNAT is one of the big roadblocks in our making heavier > use out of FreeBSD. I _really_ want to get this built. If you are seriously interested in GNAT, then you may want to try bootstrapping it from a working NetBSD or Linux version. In fact, I was once able to get an older version of GNAT working in FreeBSD using the Linux version running in FreeBSD's binary emulation mode as a bootstrap! It seemed to work okay, but failed one of the floating-point demo programs, so I gave up. Of course, now GNAT is a more complicated program to bring up, because you'll need to test the tasking support against FreeBSD's implementation of POSIX threads, and patch gnatbl to link with "-nostdlib -lc_r" instead of the nonthread-safe C library. Which makes it an even more worthwhile project, because it has the potential to shake out any bugs lurking in our threads library. :) Cheers, Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 21:52:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA11313 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 21:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from stox.sa.enteract.com (stox.sa.enteract.com [207.229.132.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA11308 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 21:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ken@localhost) by stox.sa.enteract.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA04218; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:46:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:46:45 -0600 (CST) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" Reply-To: stox@enteract.com To: Darren Reed cc: der Mouse , cgd@cs.cmu.edu, darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? In-Reply-To: <199703290414.UAA04491@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Mar 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > If I recall correctly, on exabyte, EOF markers are "1MB" in size (although > newer tape formats aren't quite so braindead). So more files on the tape > means less space for real data. When ypu're backing up in excess of 100,000 > files onto the one tape, it makes a difference. That was true of the original 8200 format. Later formats used on the 8500 series offered two sizes of tape mark. The long mark, and a short mark which chews up some 128k. I don't know off hand what the Mammoths are doing. -Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 22:45:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA13388 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from aries.bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13379 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by aries.bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05185; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:40:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:40:55 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: J Wunsch cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ Code Help In-Reply-To: <19970328205031.EH34214@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to all that helped me in my endeavor to learn C++ and get this program working, I have it about half done. I'm sure I will have more questions as I get near finishing it. Thanks. (I learn so much on this list) Christopher J. Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Technician I (509)-766-8873 Big Bend Community College Internet Instructor FreeBSD Book Project: http://vinyl.quickweb.com/~chrisc/book.html Disclaimer: Even Though it has My Name on it, Doesn't mean I said it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 28 23:47:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA15033 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from jfwhome.funhouse.com (funhouse-gw.ultra.net [199.232.59.148]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15028 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from jfwhome.funhouse.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jfwhome.funhouse.com (8.8.4-q-beta2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA02609; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:45:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703290745.CAA02609@jfwhome.funhouse.com> To: Darren Reed , darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:46:45 CST." Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:45:20 -0500 From: "John F. Woods" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> If I recall correctly, on exabyte, EOF markers are "1MB" in size (although >> newer tape formats aren't quite so braindead). So more files on the tape >> means less space for real data. When ypu're backing up in excess of 100,000 >> files onto the one tape, it makes a difference. >That was true of the original 8200 format. Later formats used on the 8500 >series offered two sizes of tape mark. The long mark, and a short mark >which chews up some 128k. Of course, neither tar nor cpio stores one disk file per tape "file". There is one EOF mark per tar archive, not per disk file. If you back up 100,000 files on one tape, you get one EOF mark. If you do multiple backups per tape, you have one EOF mark per backup, but you're talking tens, not hundred thousands, of EOF marks in that case. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 00:21:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA15838 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 00:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA15827 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 00:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA05951; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:21:23 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA26534; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:54:47 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19970329085447.KS18863@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:54:47 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: mb@atgnet.com (Moncef) Subject: Re: FreeBSD installation References: <199703290134.UAA11767@atg2.atgnet.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199703290134.UAA11767@atg2.atgnet.com>; from Moncef on Mar 28, 1997 21:02:23 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Moncef wrote: > I'm trying to install FreeBSD (2.1.6-RELEASE) over a LAN. But when > he starts downloading files from the ftp server, I get the following > message: > /: write failed, file system is full You must have done something wrong, press Alt-F2, and look for more messages. It's not supposed to write any files to / (this is a small memory filesystem only), but to /mnt where the harddisk is supposed to be mounted. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 04:22:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA23505 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 04:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (root@Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA [132.206.78.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA23500 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 04:22:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA15874; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:22:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:22:10 -0500 (EST) From: der Mouse Message-Id: <199703291222.HAA15874@Twig.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> To: cgd@cs.cmu.edu, darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org, port-i386@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> [tar/cpio "writes individual files to tape"] >> I have no clue what you're talking about here, at least with respect >> to tar. A tar tape is a stream of 512-byte blocks, reblocked >> depending on the blocking factor, typically reblocked to 10K blocks. >> This is true regardless of where file boundaries fall. > EOF markers being written to the tape, the lack of indexing and the > resulting "awkwardness" of its use. One EOF marker is written per _tape_ file, which means one per tar archive. Not one per archived file...unless you are really bizarre and put each file in its own tar archive on the tape, which would be difficult to do, pointless, and (as you point out) wasteful. der Mouse mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 05:26:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA27161 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 05:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27156 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 05:26:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id HAA14404; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:26:05 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703291326.HAA14404@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:26:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jehamby@lightside.com, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you are seriously interested in GNAT, then you may want to try bootstrapping > it from a working NetBSD or Linux version. In fact, I was once able to get an > older version of GNAT working in FreeBSD using the Linux version running in > FreeBSD's binary emulation mode as a bootstrap! It seemed to work okay, but > failed one of the floating-point demo programs, so I gave up. I thought about using the Linux version of GNAT, but didn't see how I could build a native FreeBSD version of GNAT with the Linux version. The Linux version of GNAT would want to build a Linux binary. Perhaps it could be somehow forced to build a FreeBSD binary, but I didn't know how to do that. > Of course, now GNAT is a more complicated program to bring up, because you'll > need to test the tasking support against FreeBSD's implementation of POSIX > threads, and patch gnatbl to link with "-nostdlib -lc_r" instead of the > nonthread-safe C library. Which makes it an even more worthwhile project, > because it has the potential to shake out any bugs lurking in our threads > library. :) Exactly :-) Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 07:29:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA00397 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:29:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00390 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA23263 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:32:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970329102825.00abab10@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:28:28 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis Subject: 2.2R real slow with 8 meg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 2.2 is noticably slower with only 8 meg of ram....is this to be expected, or is there some configuration option that needs to be tweeked? I'm pretty much using the GENERIC settings. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 07:47:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA01002 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from stepahead.net (stepahead.net [205.161.119.233]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00997 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 07:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (irq@localhost) by stepahead.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA10602 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:46:58 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:46:56 -0500 (EST) From: interrupt request To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Switching to FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am switching to FreeBSD 2.1.7 from Red Hat Linux 4.1....is there some sort of an easy way of doing this? Or do I have to completely repartition and reformat? And, if so, I am running shadow on my current system. Does FreeBSD come shadowed? If so, is it compatible with my /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow? Thank you.... -------------------------------------------------\ The Collective \ /-----\ | | irq | || | \-----/ || //==== | || // | /----\ ||// /===========\ | | | ||/ | interrupt | | | | || | request | | | | || | | | | | || | /\ | | | | || | \ \ | | \----/ || \======\=\==/ | \ \ | http://www.collective.org \/ | "We make the things that make communcations free" | --== interrupt request ==-- | / ================================================/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 10:32:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA05871 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:32:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05866 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06587; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:17:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199703291817.LAA06587@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils To: deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org (Daniel M. Eischen) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:17:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jehamby@lightside.com, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199703291326.HAA14404@iworks.InterWorks.org> from "Daniel M. Eischen" at Mar 29, 97 07:26:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I thought about using the Linux version of GNAT, but didn't see how I > could build a native FreeBSD version of GNAT with the Linux version. > The Linux version of GNAT would want to build a Linux binary. > Perhaps it could be somehow forced to build a FreeBSD binary, but > I didn't know how to do that. GNAT: GNU Ada Translator It would want to build a C source file... not a Linux binary. Then you would compile the C source file as a FreeBSD binary. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 10:39:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA06142 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:39:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06135 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.lan.awfulhak.org [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09595; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:24:22 GMT Message-Id: <199703291824.SAA09595@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: proff@suburbia.net cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh), moncrg@dominus.ma.ultranet.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ Code in Kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:25:38 +1100." <19970329002538.29483.qmail@suburbia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:24:22 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <01BC3BA3.6FFD23A0@dominus.ultranet.com> "Gregory D. Moncreaff" writes: > > : maybe its just that I'm taking a c++ class now, but I'm > > : cusious as to the pro's and con's on writing kernel source > > : in c++. I haven't seen nor heard on this happening on FreeBSD > > : [but then my travels haven't been that wide] > > The c++ shine tends to off pretty quickly unless you have a > object-oriented system that absolutely demands it (i.e GUI's). > Predictable behavior in the kernel is not something you want to > give up quickly. C++ is a porridge of a language and breaks the > golden rule of cooking and language design; throwing everything > that tastes nice into a pot, yields something that does not > taste nice at all. > > Cheers, > Julian. That's exactly what I was going to say - although not in exactly those words :) -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 14:07:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16144 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:07:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from calvary.pascal.org ([207.21.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16136 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:07:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from calvary.pascal.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calvary.pascal.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12555; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:07:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <333D9299.31DFF4F5@pascal.org> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:07:21 -0800 From: "Freeman P. Pascal IV" Organization: The Pascal Family X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org CC: pascal@calvary.pascal.org Subject: Maxpeed SS8 drivers... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I was curious if anyone has written Maxpeed SS8 drivers for 2.1.x or 2.2? I've recently come into possession of four boards and being able to run them with FreeBSD would be a boon to me. As a side questions. Just how hard is it to translate Linux drivers for serial equipment for use with FreeBSD. I do have the latest Linux drivers from ftp://ftp.maxpeed.com. -Freeman -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- C O M P U T E I N T E N S I V E , I N C . --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Freeman P. Pascal IV Phone Work: (800) 273-5600 Compute Intensive, Inc. Home: (510) 232-0914 8001 Irvine Center Drive FAX: (510) 689-5405 Suite 1130 Email Work: pascal@compute.com Irvine, CA 92618 Home: pascal@pascal.org URL: Work: http://www.compute.com Home: http://www.pascal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------------- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (KJV) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 14:27:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17343 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17338 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA09912 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id QAA16185; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 16:25:39 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703292225.QAA16185@iworks.InterWorks.org> From: "Daniel M. Eischen" Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils To: terry@lambert.org Date: Sat, 29 Mar 97 16:25:39 CST Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199703291817.LAA06587@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 29, 97 11:17 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I thought about using the Linux version of GNAT, but didn't see how I > > could build a native FreeBSD version of GNAT with the Linux version. > > The Linux version of GNAT would want to build a Linux binary. > > Perhaps it could be somehow forced to build a FreeBSD binary, but > > I didn't know how to do that. > > GNAT: GNU Ada Translator > > It would want to build a C source file... not a Linux binary. > > Then you would compile the C source file as a FreeBSD binary. > It's not really a translator. GNAT is part of gcc. Gcc is modified to recognize Ada, much like g77 modifies gcc to recognize Fortran. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 15:57:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21950 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:57:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21945 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from morose.rmt.net.pitt.edu (ehdup-i-7.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.177]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.5/cispo-2.0.1.7) ID ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:51:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <333DAB5D.49EE@pitt.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:53:01 -0500 From: John Duncan Organization: Papyrus, Inc; Univeristy of Pittsburgh X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel M. Eischen" CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Building Solaris->FreeBSD cross binutils References: <199703292225.QAA16185@iworks.InterWorks.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's not really a translator. GNAT is part of gcc. Gcc is modified > to recognize Ada, much like g77 modifies gcc to recognize Fortran. > > Dan Eischen > deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org Hmm, yes. GNAT is not exactly part of gcc. It's a true-to-life compiler that then uses the GCC code-generator for platform independence. But yes, to compile it, you will need to target FreeBSD. I'd reccommend checking the gnat site to see if the generic version will compile and run. The name GNAT is a silly one because they liked the animal reference and GAC or GNAC or NAC wouldn't do good. BTW, it means Gnu-NYU Ada Translator. -John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 18:54:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA29889 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from uhf.wdc.net (uhf.wdc.net [198.147.74.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29880 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:54:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by uhf.wdc.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA03317; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:54:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:54:18 -0500 (EST) From: To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ed0 timeouts after upgrade from 2.2-R to 2.2.1-R. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi: Has anyone else been having problems with the NE2000 driver under FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE timing out and behaving eraticaly? I didn't have this problem with 2.2-R. So far it has shown up on two machines that I have upgraded from 2.2-R to 2.2.1-R. Or did I miss something? Thanks. Bernie From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 19:26:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA01838 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from uhf.wdc.net (uhf.wdc.net [198.147.74.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01825 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by uhf.wdc.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA03368 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:26:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:26:00 -0500 (EST) From: To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ed0 timeout - my fault Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi: Most sincere appologies. I forgot about our local ed0 mods. NEVERMIND. Bernie From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 19:47:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA03671 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03666 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id DAA01245; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 03:47:28 GMT Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:47:28 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: interrupt request cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Mar 1997, interrupt request wrote: > I am switching to FreeBSD 2.1.7 from Red Hat Linux 4.1....is there some > sort of an easy way of doing this? Or do I have to completely repartition > and reformat? And, if so, I am running shadow on my current system. Does > FreeBSD come shadowed? If so, is it compatible with my /etc/passwd and > /etc/shadow? Thank you.... FreeBSD passwords aren't in /etc/passwd, they're in a db. You need to repartition, but maybe someone on the list can give you advice on importing passwd and shadow. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 20:01:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA04398 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 20:01:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04387 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 20:01:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA07672; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 20:01:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703300401.UAA07672@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: root@uhf.wireless.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ed0 timeouts after upgrade from 2.2-R to 2.2.1-R. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:54:18 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 20:01:02 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Has anyone else been having problems with the NE2000 driver under FreeBSD >2.2.1-RELEASE timing out and behaving eraticaly? I didn't have this >problem with 2.2-R. So far it has shown up on two machines that I have >upgraded from 2.2-R to 2.2.1-R. I don't know why this would be...there have been no changes at all to the driver between 2.2.0 and 2.2.1. It sounds like you might have an interrupt or other conflict with another device. Are you building a custom kernel with only the device drivers that you need, or are you using the GENERIC kernel? -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 21:16:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07768 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07763 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA04782 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 00:16:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 00:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" Message-Id: <199703300516.AAA04782@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: OSS/FreeBSD and Ensoniq Soundscape Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I got the OSS/FreeBSD drivers earlier this week, and have my SoundScape card "mostly" working. The MIDI works flawlessly, but the wave support is verry unstable, it acts as if there is a DMA/IRQ conflict, but there is not... (I have tried both my "tuned" kernel and GENERIC, both have the same failure mode). If anyone else has a SoundScape card, and would be willing to work with me on this, please let me know. Thanks David Cross From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 21:35:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA08606 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:35:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA08587 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:34:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA27792; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:34:24 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199703300534.PAA27792@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: Dilemma. how to store DOS directories ? To: jfw@jfwhome.funhouse.com (John F. Woods) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:34:23 +1000 (EST) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, darrenr@cyber.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, port-i386@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199703290745.CAA02609@jfwhome.funhouse.com> from "John F. Woods" at Mar 29, 97 02:45:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from John F. Woods, sie wrote > > >> If I recall correctly, on exabyte, EOF markers are "1MB" in size (although > >> newer tape formats aren't quite so braindead). So more files on the tape > >> means less space for real data. When ypu're backing up in excess of 100,000 > >> files onto the one tape, it makes a difference. > >That was true of the original 8200 format. Later formats used on the 8500 > >series offered two sizes of tape mark. The long mark, and a short mark > >which chews up some 128k. > > Of course, neither tar nor cpio stores one disk file per tape "file". There > is one EOF mark per tar archive, not per disk file. If you back up 100,000 > files on one tape, you get one EOF mark. If you do multiple backups per > tape, you have one EOF mark per backup, but you're talking tens, not hundred > thousands, of EOF marks in that case. Ahh...well, I've been too long in the HP-UX camp...they have an abdomination called "fbackup", which together with "frecover" claim to some hybrid of tar/cpio/dump but has got to be the worst thing I've ever had to use (has the inefficiences I describe above). From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 22:13:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10329 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10324 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05845; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:13:14 -0800 (PST) To: Michael Hancock cc: interrupt request , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching to FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:47:28 +0900." Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:13:14 -0800 Message-ID: <5841.859702394@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FreeBSD passwords aren't in /etc/passwd, they're in a db. You need to Well, to be more accurate - they're shadowed in /etc/passwd but actually in /etc/master.passwd (from which the db is built). If you have DES style passwords on your Linux box, just make sure that the DES distribution is installed on your FreeBSD box then copy the entries into /etc/master.passwd using vipw(1). When you're done adjusting the entries to taste (home directory, GCOS field changes, etc), vipw will rebuild the databases automatically. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 22:18:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10427 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10421 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05881; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:18:39 -0800 (PST) To: "David E. Cross" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OSS/FreeBSD and Ensoniq Soundscape In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Mar 1997 00:16:35 EST." <199703300516.AAA04782@phoenix.its.rpi.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:18:39 -0800 Message-ID: <5877.859702719@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I got the OSS/FreeBSD drivers earlier this week, and have my SoundScape card > "mostly" working. The MIDI works flawlessly, but the wave support is verry > unstable, it acts as if there is a DMA/IRQ conflict, but there is not... > (I have tried both my "tuned" kernel and GENERIC, both have the same > failure mode). If anyone else has a SoundScape card, and would be willing > to work with me on this, please let me know. Needless to say, people should also (well, *first* actually :) report these sorts of problems directly to 4-Front Technologies. This *is* a BETA version of OSS, after all, and if we're to see a stable version of the technology for final release then we need to get those bug reports in (yep, I've been sending in mine! :). I may not have mentioned this, but in another 6 months or so we'll also see a version of this technology released under the BSD copyright for inclusion with the system. It will be OSS/Lite, with support for fewer of the high-end sound cards, but it will at least give us the dynamically loadable sound driver we've always wanted. For that and other reasons, I'd like this driver to be shaken out a bit before then. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 23:03:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA11827 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 23:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.risc.org (taob@trt-on16-20.netcom.ca [207.181.85.84]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11818 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 23:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (taob@localhost) by alpha.risc.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA04036; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 02:03:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 02:03:18 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: StrongARM based NC with NetBSD In-Reply-To: <9315.859505087@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > FreeBSD is also involved in this project - it runs on the machines > (NC servers) which feed these little diskless NC boxes, These NC servers are presumably on Intel hardware then? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 29 23:51:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA14259 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 23:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14252 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 23:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA20168; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:51:33 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03382; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:25:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970330092523.BX24584@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:25:23 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: irq@stepahead.net (interrupt request), michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Subject: Re: Switching to FreeBSD References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Hancock on Mar 30, 1997 12:47:28 +0900 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Hancock wrote: > FreeBSD passwords aren't in /etc/passwd, they're in a db. You need to > repartition, ... You don't need to repartition completely. FreeBSD can use the ext2fs from Linux. I think your / and /usr filesystems must be of type UFS, but if you've got more filesystems (i haven't saved your mail thus don't know the disk layout), you should be able to reuse them. Note that FreeBSD has a different opinion about partitions and slices. RT{FAQ,handbook}. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)